Representative Assembly Minutes & Transcripts
Per Representative Assembly procedures, all meetings are recorded and transcripts posted for public review. The following are the transcripts for R.A. meetings from the 8th Assembly.
(ed. note: this is a work in progress; complete text of bills NL 8-3, 8-4, and 8-5 will be added soon) 16 March 2008 and 24 March 2008: Adopted RA process rules http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701 30 March 2008: Approval of Alexicon Kurka proposal to make nonhub status of Colonia Nova permanent; Election rules (Amendment 24); Set by-election date 6 April 2008: Adopted NL 8-3 Celebrating Our Volunteers Bill (as amended at meeting) http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1764&p=10799&hilit=+Celebrating+our+Volunteers#p10799 19 April 2008: Approved Webportal funding. 3 May 2008: Approved proposal to position Sim4 to the West of Colonia Nova and include at least 42 private lots; Adopted NL 8-4 Private Development Bill (as amended at the meeting) http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15 10 May 2008: Approved Webportal funding. 31 May 2008: Approved sim4 plan 7 June 2008: Approved the name “Locus Amoenus”; Approved draft covenants, including the corrections as noted at the meeting and the name “Locus Amoenus”; Approved Altenstadt plan. 28 June 2008: Asked Chancellor to authorise certain reimbursements within 7 days; Created commission on corporate structure issues http://forums.slcds.info//viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611&start=15#p11378 12 July 2008: Removed Chancellor. 26 July 2008: Adopted NL 8-5 CDS Code Reorganization bill forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php Agenda 1. Swearing in Ceremony Alexicon Kurka was selected by the RA to be Chancellor for the coming term. (Votes for Alexicon – ThePrincess, MT, Patroklus, Sonja. Votes for Jamie Palisades – Brian, Beathan, Bjerkel). Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks everybody for attending, we’ve got quite a crowd today :)) hehe Summary: 1. The Commerce Commission Bill was passed as amended with MT Lundquist chosen as Chair. A number of other RA members and CDS citizens volunteered to work on the commission alongside MT. Meeting on 2008-02-10 ST &ST ThePrincess? Summary 1. The RA agreed to set up a Code Re-organisation Committee with Brian Livingston as Chair. The purpose of the Committee is to clean up the CDS Code of Laws by reorganizing or repealing old and obsolete laws in batches. Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded. sigh I picked the wrong day to stop drinking coffee sigjh this is why we need new procedures Agenda 1. Reports 2. Pre-budget Discussion 3. Expansion Parameters Discussion 4. Chancellor’s Questions 5. Celebrating our volunteers Bill Meeting on 2008-02-24 sighs wistfully Beathan Vale: of only there were some better way 😉 Agenda 1. Reports 2. Expansion Parameters Discussion 3. RA Process Bill 4. Celebrating our volunteers Bill 5. Greener Sims Bill Meeting on 2008-03-02 nod Beathan Vale: we should consider putting that to the South of NFS Cindy Ecksol thinks that’s completely insane as a procedural matter…. Agenda The agenda for this weeks meeting was continued from the last week per procedural motion. 1. RA Process Bill 2. Celebrating our volunteers Bill 3. Greener Sims Bill Note: Due to SL inventory issues, the transcript from the first portion of the RA meeting was lost, a period of approximately 5 minutes. During this span of time, the meeting was called to order, roll was taken, and the meeting was postponed for an hour to allow representatives who were caught off-guard by the time change to attend the meeting. “You” = Brian Livingston in this transcript 13:00 Sonja Strom: or, Welcome back Agenda 1. Reports 2. RA Process Bill 3. Celebrating our volunteers Bill 4. Greener Sims Bill 5. Other Business 2008/03/16 12:03 Brian Livingston: If everyone ould touch the recorder to indicate their consent to be Recorded for the record Agenda Planned for 2 hours. Planned time for various items below 1. Swear In Jamie Palisades — 5 minutes 2. Discussion of (and potential election of) Interim LRA pending new elections to fill vacant seats. 5 minutes 3. Authorization of new elections and order requesting that the SC hold midterm elections to fill seats vacated by CSDF — 5 minutes 4. Reports — 10 minutes 5. Continuation of Debate and voting on RA Process Bill — 20 minutes 6. Celebrating our volunteers Bill — 10 minutes 7. Greener Sims Bill — 10 minutes 8. LRA bill — 15 minutes 9. Election Amendment — 15 minutes 10. Strategic Planning Discussion — What is the CDS, where do we want it to go and how we plan on getting there? 10 minutes 11. Other Business — 10 minutes Flex time (unallocated) — 5 minutes 24 March 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting Transcript of 24 March 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting 2008/03/24 12:04 MT Lundquist: hi jamie 2008/03/24 12:08 Beathan Vale: Good day. Would everyone please give me their attention, so I can make some important comments about meeting procedure for today. 2008/03/24 12:10 Beathan Vale: Agenda item 1. Swear In Jamie Palisades — 5 minutes 2008/03/24 12:15 Beathan Vale: 2. Discussion of (and potential election of) Interim LRA pending new elections to fill vacant seats. 5 minutes 2008/03/24 12:22 You: Agenda check. We are operating from Beathan’s draft agenda posted here: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1677 . We have amended it to move the original item “9” (election amendment) ahead of the original “3” (request a by-election), right? 2008/03/24 13:01 You: Next item is the original 3, 5 minutes set for it, seeking a resolution from us to request a by-election, noting the two vacated seats unfilled. Shrug but if that is the consensus — Agenda Proposed agenda: 1. Administrative matters. (15 minutes: 12h00 – 12h15) 1a. Get agreements to record session. ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS 2. RA Quorum issue. (15 minutes: 12h15 – 12h30) 3. Election rule changes, if any, for the by-election. (15 minutes: 12h30-12h45) 3a. Proposal to increase the minimum faction size. (TP Parisi) 4. Set dates for by-election. (10 minutes: 12h45-12h55) 5. Final report from Commerce Commission (MT Lundquist) (5 minutes: 12h55-13h00) — Action items reported out to RA 6. Report from Tour Commission (TP Parisi) (5 minutes: 13h00-13h05) 7. Fourth CDS Sim Planning (20 minutes: 13h05-13h25) 8. Proposed Celebrating our Volunteers Bill (10 minutes: 13h25-13h35) 9. Proposed Greener Sims Bill (10 minutes: 13h35-13h45) NEW ITEMS 10. Other? 11. Open Discussion (15 minutes: 13h45-14h00) Adjournment: 14h00 30 March 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting ==== Agenda 1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 12h00 – 12h15) 1a. Get agreements to record session. ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS 2. Report from Chancellor (15 mins.: 12h15 – 12h30) 5. Fourth CDS Sim Planning (25 mins.: 12h50-13h15) NEW ITEMS 7. Private Development Proposal (discussion only) (25 mins.: 13h15 – 13:40) 8. Note upcoming expected legislation (5 mins.: 13h40 – 13h45) 9. Other? 06 April 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary ==== ==== proposal In order to make sure that the history of CDS is not forgotten, and especially that the people who have given so much of themselves to make CDS are duly honored and celebrated.,I would like to suggest that we begin a formal process to do just that. This could be formally done along with a ceremony to “pass the baton” so to speak, and perhaps literally to the newly elected chancellor at the Inagural Event. 1. A physical space in NFS where CDS history is displayed. Agenda Proposed agenda: 1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 0912h00 – 09h15) 1a. Get agreements to record session. ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS NEW ITEMS Summary 12 April 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary Transcript ==== Agenda Proposed agenda: 1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 09h00 – 09h15) ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS NEW ITEMS Transcript ==== ==== Agenda Proposed agenda: 1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 09h00 – 09h15) ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS NEW ITEMS Summary 26 April 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary Transcript ==== ==== Agenda Proposed agenda: 1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 09h00 – 09h15) 2. LRA succession after by-election (20 mins.: 09h15-09h35) 3. Plan for future meetings (5 mins.: 09h35-09h40) ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS 4. Review & scheduling of action on pending items (20 mins.: 09h40-10h00) NEW ITEMS Summary 3 May 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary Transcript ==== Agenda 1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 09h00 – 09h15) ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS 3. Commerce Commission recommendations (20 mins.: 09h20 – 09h40) NEW ITEMS 7. Report from SC meeting, regarding RA rules of order (10 mins, 10h30 – 10h40) Summary 10 May 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary Transcript ==== Agenda 1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 09h00 – 09h15) ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS 2. Commerce Commission recommendations (40 mins.: 09h15 – 09h55) NEW ITEMS 5. Other? Summary 24 May 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary Transcript ==== Agenda 1. Administrative matters. (20 mins.: 10h00 – 10h20) ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS 2. General Master Plan bill (20 mins.: 10h20 – 10h40) NEW ITEMS 6. RA parliamentary & archive assistance (10 mins.: 11h30 – 11h40) 31 May 2008 CDS Representative Assembly Meeting: Summary Note also announcement & pointer re Elections Commission made at [12:20], references Transcript ==== Agenda Proposed agenda: 1. Administrative matters. (20 mins.: 0900 – 09h20) ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS 2. CDS Sim4 (40 mins: 09h20 – 10h00) NEW ITEMS 4. Chancellor’s report (35 mins.: 10h10 – 10h45) Transcript ==== Agenda 1. Administrative matters. (20 mins.: 0900 – 09h20) SPECIAL ITEM 2. Treasurer’s presentation on CDS budget (40 mins: 09h20 – 10h00) ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS 3. Commerce Commission recommendations (15 mins.: 10h00 – 10h15) NEW ITEMS 5. Elections reform bills (20 mins: 10h25 – 10h45) Transcript ==== — slide 1 — —- slide 2—- —-slide 3—- —-slide 5—- Agenda 1. Administrative matters. (20 mins.: 0900 – 09h20) SPECIAL ITEM ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS NEW ITEMS 6. Other? Transcript ==== Agenda 1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 0900 – 09h15) ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS Transcript ==== Agenda Proposed agenda: ITEMS CONTINUED FROM PRIOR MEETINGS NEW ITEMS Transcript ==== Agenda 1. Administrative matters. (15 mins.: 10h00 – 10h15) 2. Code reorganization report (15 mins: 10h15 – 10h30) NEW ITEMS Transcript ====8th Representative Assembly
Other actions of the 8th RA
Other Actions of the 8th RA
24 March2008: Adopted faction elimination amendment (Amendment 23) ; Delcared RA vacancies and called by-election
18 July 2008: Reprimanded and rescinded removal of Chancellor.RA Meeting: February 03, 2008
2. LRA ‘State of the CDS’ address
3. Chancellor Election
Summary
Transcript
12:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: and LOL
12:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: sword trumps ruler
12:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: First of all,
12:13 Brian Livingston is a bit worried for Gwyn’s other hand….
12:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to congratulate all the newly elected RA members, in the name of Calude Desmoulins, who sadly cannot attend today.
12:14 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Jon Seattle (10m)
12:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Claude even
12:14 Beathan Vale: and this is when we stab in the new members,eh?
12:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: sheesh can’t type.
12:14 Sudane Erato: hehe
12:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not… yet, Beathan!
12:14 Brian Livingston: Woo, Ritualistic mass violence!
12:14 Sudane Erato: stab?
12:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then, I’d like to extend my personal thanks too,
12:14 Beathan Vale: or slice —
12:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: as well as to all the citizens who kept to their democratic duties and continued to give their support to the CDS.
12:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks guys…. this is our fourth year, and another term.
12:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn feels *old*
12:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
12:15 Brian Livingston nods
12:15 Brian Livingston claps
12:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now… usually, the way we do this,
12:15 Bromo Ivory looks for wrinkles
12:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that each RA member will make an affirmation or oath to serve the CDS, its Constitutions and Laws
12:16 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Symo Kurka (8m)
12:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: If my inventory doesn’t fail me, I have a short text ready… which I’ll give to each of the RA members…
12:16 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: TheWiseThomas? Spyker (9m)
12:17 Bjerkel Eerie: I am logged in on a wifi in a ski area cafeteria just in case I crash, you should know
12:17 Sonja Strom: ok
12:17 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: TheWiseThomas? Spyker (9m)
12:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn gave you CDS RA Office Affirmation.
12:17 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: TheWiseThomas? Spyker (8m)
12:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: if I gave you one notecard by mistake, I do apologise
12:18 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: TheWiseThomas? Spyker (10m)
12:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: … who am I missing? lol
12:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn < -- suffers from lag
12:18 Sonja Strom: should we have more than one card?
12:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: one is enough, Sonja
12:19 You: i got my card 🙂
12:19 ThePrincess? Parisi: i received mine
12:19 Bjerkel Eerie: I got the oath of office
12:19 MT Lundquist: i received it
12:19 MT Lundquist: ty
12:19 Brian Livingston hasn't
12:20 Brian Livingston doesn't need a script, he can just swear and be done with it :p
12:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: there you go, Brian
12:20 Sudane Erato: hehe
12:20 Brian Livingston: ty 🙂
12:20 Beathan Vale: haven't
12:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry Beathan... I might have hit the beer jug instead
12:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
12:20 Sudane Erato: hehe
12:20 Beathan Vale: i would have too — much better thanme
12:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let's start
12:21 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: TheWiseThomas? Spyker (9m)
12:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (there is no real order, but I think that usually we start by 'order of election')
12:21 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Bromo Ivory (10m)
12:22 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Bromo Ivory (10m)
12:22 Gwyneth Llewelyn: so hmm that would be Pat first?
12:22 Brian Livingston isn'ta big fan of the beer jug's stance on free wine in CN
12:22 You: ok, i can start
12:22 TheWiseThomas? Spyker: GOD WASNT EASY TO BE HERE
12:22 You: I, Patroklus Murakami, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
12:22 Sonja Strom: 😀
12:22 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Pat 🙂
12:23 Rose Springvale gave you congratulations!.
12:23 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: TheWiseThomas? Spyker (3m)
12:23 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ugh, Jon, do you remember the order? 😛 ... I just have it grouped by factions lol
12:23 notetaker 2.0.1: You have already signed in.
12:23 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it would be Princess next...
12:24 Jon Seattle: Well, it has to be within faction, as there is no global order 🙂
12:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: I, ThePrincess? Parisi, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. So help me God.
12:24 Jon Seattle: Oh, yes
12:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point — and thank you Princess 😉
12:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you
12:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
12:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah well, we have no order any more, lol
12:25 You: no great change there then 🙂
12:25 Justice Soothsayer: careful scratching your head with that sword, Gwyn.
12:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: so let's get Brian next
12:25 Jon Seattle: (because candidates are voted within faction 🙂 )
12:25 Brian Livingston: I, Brian Livingston , having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
12:25 Cindy Ecksol:
12:25 Sudane Erato: 🙂
12:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja next (there is a hidden login in this), please!
12:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: *logic
12:26 Sonja Strom: I, Sonja Strom, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
12:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Sonja!
12:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: And now Bjerkel!
12:26 Bjerkel Eerie: I, Bjerkel Eerie of bas typing, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
12:27 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Rose Springvale (8m)
12:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Bjerkel 🙂 — and it’s your turn now, MT 🙂
12:27 MT Lundquist: I, MT Lundquist, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
12:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you MT 🙂
12:27 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.21: Entering chat range: Sudane Erato (9m)
12:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the last one 😉
12:27 Beathan Vale: I, Beathan Vale, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators. So help me God and keep me steadfast.
12:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol and thanks!
Justice Soothsayer: Bravo!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thank you all once more, let’s make this one a wonderful term 🙂
Rose Springvale: applause!!
Jamie Palisades claps
Gwyneth Llewelyn: applause to the new RA, and then let’s have the LRA have his speech 😀
Cindy Ecksol: /calp
Jon Seattle: yea!
Patroklus Murakami: A warm welcome to everyone who has come to this Inaugural Meeting of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Patroklus Murakami: RA members, members of the Scientific Council and CDS citizens and guests, this will be the Eighth Session of the Representative Assembly, our legislature.
Patroklus Murakami: That in itself is an amazing achievement marking three and a half years of democratic self-government. Not only are we the oldest democracy in Second Life, we are also one of the longest-running projects.
Beathan Vale: Note that Pat’s hair keeps getting grayer the longer he is in charge — just like iRL
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: Over that time the CDS has changed a great deal.
Patroklus Murakami: Principally, we have grown in territorial size with our third sim, Alpine Meadow, brought online during the previous term.
Patroklus Murakami: With Alpine Meadow we have joined Neufreistadt and Colonia Nova and the feeling of being ‘one community’ has certainly been strengthened by that.
Patroklus Murakami: We have also grown in confidence – we no longer feel we have to ‘prove’ that democracy can work – we have shown definitively that it can.
Patroklus Murakami: We have also developed politically with new factions becoming established and new citizens becoming active in them.
Patroklus Murakami: This RA will have representation from all four active factions in the CDS and, with no one faction dominating, our tradition of compromise (alongside robust discussion) will hopefully be the theme of the coming six months.
TheWiseThomas? Spyker: CAN ASK QUESTION IN HERE JUST ASKING IN CASE I HAVE A QUESTION
Patroklus Murakami: When we look at what the elected representatives gathered here today have pledged to achieve, we must wonder if six months will be enough!
Patroklus Murakami: From the election manifestos we have plans for expansion, plans to improve accessibility and reach out beyond our current group of citizens, plans to simplify our code of laws, plans to link up with other communities and much more.
Patroklus Murakami: I think we can achieve a lot of that if we are clear about our priorities as a community and if we approach this term in the right spirit – that it’s about making a good place better. I’m confident that the representatives gathered here today will do just that.
Patroklus Murakami: So, with no further pageantry, let’s begin!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Pat 🙂
Cindy Ecksol: /cl
Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds
Rose Springvale: bravo !
Justice Soothsayer: hear, hear!
Symo Kurka: claps
MT Lundquist: /clap
Jamie Palisades claps
Sonja Strom: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Patroklus Murakami smiles
Brian Livingston claps
Jon Seattle: lol
Cindy Ecksol: *lol*
Sonja Strom: 😀
Patroklus Murakami: so, the next item on the agenda is the chancellor election
Sonja Strom: *lol*
Patroklus Murakami: first of all, could i ask everyone to touch the recorder on the table?
MT Lundquist has indicated consent to be recorded.
TheWiseThomas? Spyker: bye guys nice meeting u
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: this indicates your consent to be recorded for the chat log
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you, Thomas!
TheWiseThomas? Spyker: ciao
Sonja Strom: bye Thomas ~ ~
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Danton Sideways has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: bye thewisethomas 🙂
Rose Springvale: bye thomas!
Rose Springvale: call me if you want land…
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi has indicated consent to be recorded.
TheWiseThomas? Spyker: kisses to ladies and my hand to to men :0
Sonja Strom: bye bye
Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we give the two candidates – alexicon kurka and jamie palisades – five minutes each to present their reasons for wanting to become our next chancellor
Patroklus Murakami: (you don’t need to take all the five minutes though!)
Patroklus Murakami: and then take questions from the RA members and citizens
Patroklus Murakami: finally, we’ll take the vote at about 12:55
Patroklus Murakami: brian, i understand you need to leave at 1pm?
Brian Livingston: Or pretty close to it, yea
Patroklus Murakami: will that work for you?
Brian Livingston: Sounds good Pat, thank you
Patroklus Murakami: smashing 🙂 let’s press on
Patroklus Murakami: alexicon, are you ready to begin?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Alexicon Kurka: OK
Alexicon Kurka: I will begin
Patroklus Murakami: the floor is yours
Alexicon Kurka: I am rather new on CDS
Alexicon Kurka: I joined a few months ago
Alexicon Kurka: From the begining I was amazed by the high ‘level’ of the citizens
Alexicon Kurka: and got involved without beeing very active in the begining to the birth of the renewed party
Alexicon Kurka: I feel that people here have had enough of the fights of the last perios
Alexicon Kurka: and are wishing to cooperatie now
Alexicon Kurka: I would be glad to cooperate with all factions here
Alexicon Kurka: and help achieve the maximum of our targets and wishes
Alexicon Kurka: Myself will be very glad if we can keep our growth momentum
Alexicon Kurka: and involve all citizens to new creative activities
Alexicon Kurka: It will be a great honor to a ‘newbie’ to be the executive for some months
Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
Bromo Ivory claps
Alexicon Kurka: As there are little differences in the practical positions of the factions I think it will be an easy term
Alexicon Kurka: thanks to everybody that got me involved on CDS
Alexicon Kurka: I have talked to most of the RA memebers but if there are questions I will be glad to answer them
Patroklus Murakami: ty alexicon 🙂
Jamie Palisades claps
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Alex :))
ThePrincess? Parisi: /claps
Rose Springvale: applause
MT Lundquist: claps
Brian Livingston: Thanks 🙂
Symo Kurka: claps
Patroklus Murakami: jamie, are you ready?
Arria Perreault: claps
ThePrincess? Parisi: yay alexicon
Jamie Palisades: certainly
Patroklus Murakami: the floor is yours
Jamie Palisades: Less than five minutes, for me, I hope … consistent w both a minimalist government, which I prefer, & an enjoyable SL, which ditto.
Jamie Palisades: Well said, Alex, I agree with much that you said. The overlaps of the faction platforms *ARE* heartening.
Jamie Palisades: And thank you and congratulations to everyone serving. I’m delighted that CDS is my SL home and the source of many friends here.
Jamie Palisades: I mentioned to those enquiring that I have 4 concerns for the gov’t.
Jamie Palisades: By way of transparency, here they are. One is to make our work here as open, fair, enjoyable and receptive to contribution as possible.
Jamie Palisades: We have a lot of platform planks (smile) so the trick is to encourage and motivate execution, I think.
Jamie Palisades: A second is to concretely improve the platform for local commerce. without losing our look & feel, our land rights, or, er, souls.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Jamie Palisades: The third
Jamie Palisades: The third is to routinise and make even more predictable our land use rules & enforcement. No complaints – just a
Jamie Palisades: strong desire for transparency, clear, open management of those issues
Jamie Palisades: If one;s going to get in trouble, one ought to be able to see it coming 🙂 we owe that to citizens
Jamie Palisades: finally
Jamie Palisades: The final – and most important – is to model and keep a high level of civility in our self-government & community. Alex would, incidentally, do a fine job too … we’re *both* new here by any reasonable standard
Jamie Palisades: and!
Jamie Palisades: . and! neither of us can do it without high levels of volunteer contribution.
Jamie Palisades: .. So our first prob really will be a staffing one. SPeaking for myself, I do not expect to do any appointing, nor woud I encourage Alex or anyone else to do so, without a great deal of consultation. We’re a model for SL and should remain so – but also, really, this is a smallish, growing community of friends. Fiats do NOT work here.
Jamie Palisades: We have an excellent social ecology. that’s part of what we must design with.
Jamie Palisades: So, Please be ready to help either of us – both of us! – find many, diverse, civil, creative, open-minded and open-handed volunteers to accomplish all the things we hope to achieve. (that’s it)
Patroklus Murakami: ty jamie 🙂
Rose Springvale claps
MT Lundquist: claps
Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Alexicon Kurka: claps
ThePrincess? Parisi: applause
Pip Torok: claps
Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
Brian Livingston claps
Sudane Erato: hehe
Symo Kurka: claps
Sonja Strom: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Alexicon Kurka: !-!-!-!_^^^_!-!-!-!
Alexicon Kurka: APPLAUSE
Alexicon Kurka: ~#~~~~~~~~~~~~#~
Sonja Strom: lol
Bromo Ivory claps
Patroklus Murakami: now we have time for questions, who would like to begin?
Pip Torok: me
Bromo Ivory: Is this for RA or anyone?
Pip Torok: whats your feelings if any on the integration and welcoming of newbies?
Patroklus Murakami: i didn’t specify. pip, pls go ahead
Jamie Palisades: heh well both of us were newbies
Jamie Palisades: Alex?
Justice Soothsayer: Would either candidate pref that this position be elected by the total populace; why or why not?
Pip Torok: im thinking of the rather intense amount of time that demands of other citizens
Alexicon Kurka: it seems like we have a lot of newbies
Alexicon Kurka: and tehy are willing to participate emmediately
Alexicon Kurka: at least they can build on skyboxes on AM
Sudane Erato: hehe
Alexicon Kurka: but we need some competitions to stimulate creation
Pip Torok: (nice 2 know where they are!;)
Patroklus Murakami: could you both address justice’s question?
Jamie Palisades: let me type into a box here to getr this out fast, and meet Pat’s deadlines. Pip, CDS newbiew, we like, unconditionally. SL newbies? A differernt admin load. I;d say we are not, and shoud not, optimize for them, but I odn;t wan tot be actively hostile to anyone – nor do our laws permit that 🙂
Jamie Palisades: 🙂 typo laden but clear I hope
Pip Torok: fair enough
Alexicon Kurka: I am satisfied with an election by the RA in order to avoid populistic invasions 🙂
Symo Kurka: i think nobody of us newbies wants populistic invasions
Pip Torok: agree
Symo Kurka: we respecta ad accept rules
Jamie Palisades: I;m an incrementalist, Justice. That woud be a big chang;, my immediate reaction is that popular direct election feels like a bad fit for here.
Symo Kurka: our main need is just a more fluid information in world
Patroklus Murakami: another question?
Cindy Ecksol: ah…maybe our main need is less politics involved in selecting the chancellor?
Patroklus Murakami: last one
Jamie Palisades: haha Cindy, was this one that bad?
Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
Justice Soothsayer: thanks for thoughtful answers
Cindy Ecksol: I’ll let you know when i see the result….
Bjerkel Eerie: Alex, will you be your own man, serving the will of the RA aand teh goals of teh RA, or will you answer principally to the leadership of NuCARES?
Alexicon Kurka: I prefered to run as chancellor because of the chance to work for all factions in the RA,
Symo Kurka: i think that ifo management and event management should be two different jobs
Symo Kurka: *info
Alexicon Kurka: they are Symo
Symo Kurka: because the amount of both is very huge
Patroklus Murakami: i think we probably need to move to the vote before we run out of RA members 🙂
Alexicon Kurka: we have a PIO for events
Brian Livingston: I can stay a bit logner pat if needbe, but 1:15 is my absolute cutoff point
Brian Livingston: 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: who is the time keeper
Patroklus Murakami: five more minutes of questions then 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i have a question
ThePrincess? Parisi: you said 1255
Patroklus Murakami: to both candidates
ThePrincess? Parisi: we need to vote
Patroklus Murakami: what do you think is the most important task facing the new chancellor this term?
Patroklus Murakami: do you need to get going theprincess? my reason for aiming for 1 was brian’s other commitments
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes i do
Patroklus Murakami: let’s make this the final question then, alex? jamie?
Jamie Palisades: Pat: Translating all those agreed goals into deliverables, with willing contributors and reasonably peaceful consensus on details
Patroklus Murakami: alex?
Alexicon Kurka: I think that realising of the agreements is the main problem of a chancellor
Alexicon Kurka: key will be keeping the factions working together
Patroklus Murakami: ok, voting. i plan to take each RA member in turn and ask for their vote
Patroklus Murakami: we’ll do it in alphabetical order by first name
Brian Livingston: Are we doing public or private voting with public revelation afterwards?
Brian Livingston: nm
Patroklus Murakami: as we are all here i thought we could do it publicly, like other votes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, could i have your vote pls?
Beathan Vale: Jamie P
Patroklus Murakami: bjerkel?
Bjerkel Eerie: I vote for jamie
Patroklus Murakami: brian?
Brian Livingston: Jamie Palisades
Patroklus Murakami: MT?
MT Lundquist: alexicon K
Patroklus Murakami: i vote for alexicon
Patroklus Murakami: Sonja?
Sonja Strom: It is a very difficult decision for me,
Sonja Strom: because both are great citizens of the CDS and great people.
Sonja Strom: Very caring about the community.
Sonja Strom: However, I also feel it is important for me to make a decision
Sonja Strom: and overall it is Alexicon.
Patroklus Murakami: ty sonja
Naftali Torok: in raadhuis=
Patroklus Murakami: and finally theprincess
ThePrincess? Parisi: The next Chancellor of CDS ….
ThePrincess? Parisi: On behalf of the members of New United CARE I proudly
ThePrincess? Parisi: cast my vote for
ThePrincess? Parisi: Alexicon Kurka
Jamie Palisades: I’m delighted that Alex wishes to serve; I congratulate him and the RA, offer him my help and wish you the best. 🙂
Jamie Palisades claps
Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all right, congratulations 😀
Patroklus Murakami: congratulations alexicon, with 4 votes that makes you our next chancellor 🙂
Bromo Ivory claps
Arria Perreault: bravo Alex !
Justice Soothsayer: Congratulations!
Rose Springvale: applause
MT Lundquist: claps
Naftali Torok: woeovvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
Alexicon Kurka: thanks Jamie, everybody
Symo Kurka: claps
Naftali Torok: hoera for alex
Pip Torok: claps
Brian Livingston claps
Alexicon Kurka: I hope you will all keep so enthousiastic during the coming period
Alexicon Kurka: we all need us
Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: thank you to everyone for coming to this meeting. our agenda is at an end and we are ready to adjourn
Patroklus Murakami: let’s meet at the same time next week in the Praetorium, colonia nova
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay for the CDS on Term #8 😉
Rose Springvale: congrats everyonw
Patroklus Murakami: we are adjourned
The meeting closed at 13:10 Linden time.RA Meeting: Febraury 10, 2008
2. The RA decided to ask the authors of the No Peeking Bill and the Voting Security Amendment to meet and discuss a way of reconciling the two motions in collaboration with the SC.
Transcript
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: let’s get started
Sonja Strom: hi 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have a fashionissue
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: there are notecards for today’s meeting in the notecard giver on the table (the wooden box)
Patroklus Murakami: please touch the recorder to indicate consent to the chat log being taken and published
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka has indicated consent to be recorded.
Bjerkel Eerie has indicated consent to be recorded.
Brian Livingston: Ocober notecarrds?
Patroklus Murakami: October? shouldn’t be
Brian Livingston: Oh, I clickedo n the jug not the box
Patroklus Murakami: aah, i see 🙂
Beathan Vale: Pat — why isn’t my bill on the agenda?
Patroklus Murakami: what was your bill beathan?
ThePrincess? Parisi: cos he told me he does what he wants, use the remedy available beathan
Beathan Vale: to change RA procedures
ThePrincess? Parisi: oops
Patroklus Murakami: i asked for agenda items to be submitted to me inworld by notecard, or by email by the due date as i’ve always done
Patroklus Murakami: those that were submitted to me are on the agenda
Patroklus Murakami: did you send me an email/notecard? i thought it was only posted on the forums
Beathan Vale: Ok — it can wait — but I understood that proposal posted on the forum by the deadline also comply — I will add forum posting as a means of proposing legislation and send you an email including my bill along with that addition
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: so did i pat, i think you said
Patroklus Murakami: we encourage ppl to post bills on the forums so they can be discussed by everyone prior to meetings. but i need to have them by notecard or email to prepare the agenda
Patroklus Murakami: if i have to scour the forums for posts i’m likely to make mistakes and get ppl unnecessarily angry 🙂
Beathan Vale: Pat – I will try to chnge that and allow posting on the forum to be a perfectly appropriate manner to get something on the agenda — I think the LRA whoudl follow the forums closely and this will mandate that
ThePrincess? Parisi: i second
Patroklus Murakami: well, let’s debate that another time
Beathan Vale: Ok — next week
Patroklus Murakami: before we get on to the bills before us i have a couple of announcements. i tried to update the agenda but appear to have failed in that
ThePrincess? Parisi: i ididnt get jons bill
Patroklus Murakami: the first is to welcome (back) Leon Ash to the RA. Leon has agreed to take over as teh CSDF rep since Bjerkel has decided to step down
Patroklus Murakami: i’ve sent you a copy theprincess, so you should have it now 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: did jon take bj’s pleace
ThePrincess? Parisi: place
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes i had it nvm
Patroklus Murakami: no, leon has taken bjerkel’s place
ThePrincess? Parisi: i thought leon did
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: is he going to be sworn in
Leon Ash: Thanks for the welcome back and should I swear at someone now?
Jon Seattle: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
ThePrincess? Parisi: swear at me leon
ThePrincess? Parisi: i love it
Patroklus Murakami: the second announcement is a request – could all RA members let Alexicon know what their availability is for the government question hour meetings?
Leon Ash: (*&?&&&*^^
Patroklus Murakami: it will be a nightmare for him to organise but let’s try to make his life a little easier
ThePrincess? Parisi sticks our her tongue and leon
ThePrincess? Parisi: at him
Sonja Strom: ok Pat
MT Lundquist: k
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok we will
Patroklus Murakami: i’m not sure we swear ppl in leon, except at the inaugural meeting
ThePrincess? Parisi: then he cant vote
ThePrincess? Parisi: its not fair
Patroklus Murakami: well, in every previous RA that i can recall new members have joined the RA as replacements and not been formally sworn in. justice, jon can you recall any precedent here?
Brian Livingston: I don’t believe we’ve sworn in replacement members in the past, so there is no real precident
Brian Livingston types too slow…
Justice Soothsayer: no, but I could do the honors if you woul dlike.
ThePrincess? Parisi: please justice
Beathan Vale: Leon will you undermine our constition — yes or no
Jon Seattle: We have never made the swearing a requriment as far as I know.
ThePrincess? Parisi: well i think we should since its leon and all
Beathan Vale: If the anser is “no, I move we sit Leon with no further process
Justice Soothsayer: Leon, repeat after me: I, Leon Ash, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Leon Ash: I, Leon Ash, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
MT Lundquist: claps
Patroklus Murakami claps
Justice Soothsayer: Congratulations.
Leon Ash: thanks
Sudane Erato: yay Leon! 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: yay!!!
Brian Livingston: Congrats
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to item 1. the commerce commission bill
Jon Seattle: Yea
Patroklus Murakami: this was one of the recommendations we put forward during the election campaign and we’d like to get work started on this as a priority. i’ll just say a few words then open up for discussion
Patroklus Murakami: the question of commerce in the CDS is a long one with a long history
ThePrincess? Parisi: excuse me
PMRobert Walpole: Cheers all
ThePrincess? Parisi: Who is we?
Patroklus Murakami: almost from the start, CDS citizens have been concerned with developing our community as a thriving place for commerce (among other things)
Patroklus Murakami: (we = the CSDF)
Beathan Vale: (we also = the SP)
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh .. that explains why his bill is first cindy
Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: there have been a number of ideas proposed for how we might improve matters
Sudane Erato: Please let Pat speak!
Cindy Ecksol: just wondering, pat — there were three others announced before this one
Patroklus Murakami: cindy, theprincess. i’ve been very patient so far but would you please stop interrupting me?
Patroklus Murakami: i will be asking ppl who do the same to you to desist
Patroklus Murakami: so please do me the same honour
Patroklus Murakami: the aim of holding a commission is to get citizen input in a structured way, find some consensus and make recommendations for action (if these are felt to be needed)
Patroklus Murakami: now, would others like to comment or ask questions?
Sudane Erato: I’m all in favor of this commission… its a great idea
Beathan Vale: I had offered some proposed amendments
Beathan Vale: I want to offer those now again from the floor
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think its lovely
MT Lundquist: I ‘m happy with this
Beathan Vale: they are posted on the forum
ThePrincess? Parisi: long overdue .. in fact
Beathan Vale: I move to amend the bill as proposed
Patroklus Murakami: could you post them here beathan so we have the text in the record of the meeting?
Patroklus Murakami: it makes it clearer what the RA are voting for
Patroklus Murakami: (or against!)
Beathan Vale: I also like this proposal — but I am increasingly having second thoughts on setting fixed timelimits for commissions. Sometimes commissions are not able to complete their tasks within the time allotted, for no fault of the commissioners. However, these accidental and excusable failures have been manipulated for political effect in the past. Thus, I would change 5 to “The Chair of the Commission shall report to the RA on March 9 and shall inform the RA of the status of the commission’s work, make recommendations based on that work, and provide, if possible, a draft final report of conclusions the commission has reached. At that time, the RA shall either accept the final report and dissolve the commission; send the report back to the commission with recommendations and set a time at which the final report shall be submitted or resubmitted; or extend the term of service for the commission and set a time at which the final report shall be submitted.” I would also add an!
additional charge to section 3.
Brian Livingston: Seconded
Beathan Vale: I would also add an additional charge to section 3. “Determine the cost of activities recommended by the commission and provide budget recommendations to the RA and budget priorities to the RA for use in implementing the commission’s recommendations.”
Sonja Strom: sorry, this will take me some time to read
Patroklus Murakami: let’s take a couple of minutes to consider
ThePrincess? Parisi: i move we wait til next time
ThePrincess? Parisi: sonja needs time toread
Beathan Vale: I think this bill is time sensitive — as it is a commission — if we wait we will need to change the timeling
Beathan Vale: timeline even
Patroklus Murakami: wb leon
Leon Ash: thanks
Patroklus Murakami: did you get beathan’s amendement leon?
ThePrincess? Parisi: why didnt we have this before this session .. i ask for a seven day if we vote
ThePrincess? Parisi: for everyone here
Jon Seattle hands Leon another ISP 🙂
Beathan Vale: it was all on the forums
Leon Ash: No, could you please resend ammendment
Brian Livingston: And it is pretty common for propsoed ammendments to bills to be made on the floor
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, could you repost?
Patroklus Murakami: for leon’s benefit?
Beathan Vale: I would change 5 to “The Chair of the Commission shall report to the RA on March 9 and shall inform the RA of the status of the commission’s work, make recommendations based on that work, and provide, if possible, a draft final report of conclusions the commission has reached. At that time, the RA shall either accept the final report and dissolve the commission; send the report back to the commission with recommendations and set a time at which the final report shall be submitted or resubmitted; or extend the term of service for the commission and set a time at which the final report shall be submitted.” I would also add an additional charge to section 3. “Determine the cost of activities recommended by the commission and provide budget recommendations to the RA and budget priorities to the RA for use in implementing the commission’s recommendations.”
Patroklus Murakami: any views on beathan’s amendment?
Symo Kurka: Sounds reasonable to me
Leon Ash: Thank you Beathan and as to views. It seems reasonable
Sudane Erato: it seems reasonable to me
Brian Livingston: I’m ok with it
ThePrincess? Parisi: fine
MT Lundquist: the amendment seems ok to me
Patroklus Murakami: i’m happy with it too so i’ll take is as a friendly amendment
Patroklus Murakami: *it as
Brian Livingston: Allows the comission a little more leeway in regards to fulfilling their andate
Sonja Strom: ok, i am caught up with the chat now – sorry, it takes me some time to follow.
ThePrincess? Parisi: im not sure about the ammendment though
Jon Seattle: Yes, seems like a good idea
Patroklus Murakami: well, the amendment has been accepted as a friendly so it’s now part of the bill
Patroklus Murakami: now, we need a chair 🙂 any volunteers?
MT Lundquist: me
Beathan Vale: secon MT
Patroklus Murakami: ty MT. are there any other volunteers from the RA members?
Beathan Vale: I’ll participate — but not chair
Patroklus Murakami: we have had two co-chairs in the past which worked quite well i recall (justice may feel differently :))
Sonja Strom: I might participate, but do not want to chair
Beathan Vale: no — I prefer single chair
MT Lundquist: i’ll be happy to chair
MT Lundquist: on my own
MT Lundquist: i have 3 shops in CDS
Patroklus Murakami: i think that means we have MT as the chair and at least two RA members willing to serve on the commission
Beathan Vale: two chairs might be useful in cases on controversy to prevent any side from feeling excluded from the outset –b ut this a parctical mattter, not one of controversy
ThePrincess? Parisi: he bought another today
Sonja Strom: I think the commission is a good idea
Patroklus Murakami: i’m calling an end to the discussion on this item.
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move to the votes
Beathan Vale: I move for passage of bill as amended
Patroklus Murakami: first vote: are we ready to vote on the amended bill? (amended with beathan’s text and MT as chair). please say ‘aye’ or ‘nay’
MT Lundquist: aye
Brian Livingston: aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Leon Ash votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: and secondly, are you in favour of the amended bill? again, ‘aye’ or ‘nay’ will do
Beathan Vale: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
MT Lundquist: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Brian Livingston: aye
Leon Ash votes aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami: congratulations MT 🙂
MT Lundquist: ty
ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
Sonja Strom: thank you MT for doing it!
Sudane Erato: MT, I have also volunteered
ThePrincess? Parisi: great!
Sonja Strom: yay!
Sudane Erato: so please let me know
MT Lundquist: ok ty sudane
Patroklus Murakami: i think you’ll have lots of volunteers to help
Brian Livingston: Samew here MT, as a business owner andd planner, I hope to be able to proide some input 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: which is good
ThePrincess? Parisi: ql3
Patroklus Murakami: now, item 2. the No Peeking Bill. ThePrincess?, would you like to introduce this?
MT Lundquist: ty brian
Beathan Vale: As I posted on the forum “I support the goals of these bill and don’t mind the text or approach of either bill (provided my suggested changes are incorporated). However, both bills are on the same subject matter, but take somewhat different and incompatible approaches. Thus, I think it is unwise to pass both bills. However, I don’t really want to start the current session of the RA with a partisan squabble and power play between NuCARE and the CSDF. What I would prefer to do is to try to merge the proposals into a single bill with multiparty support. I think that, because these bills are on a subject that will not matter until the next election — we have plenty of time to try to craft a compromise using the text and goals of these bills. I would suggest a working session on these bills rather than a vote tomorrow.” Thus, I move to continue these bills for one week, during which week the proponents of the bills should meet together and meet with the SC to try to craf!
t a combined bill.
ThePrincess? Parisi: our chancellor will also be very interested im sure
Sonja Strom: I am a business owner too, but not in the CDS.
Patroklus Murakami: ThePrincess? has the floor
ThePrincess? Parisi: im fine either way ..
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh im sorry.. MT will present that bill
Patroklus Murakami: ok 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: and no we dont want to merge now
Jon Seattle: As I commented in the forum, this is a citizen’s bill at the moment and not a CSDF bill. And I would recommend we table it until we can have a working session.
MT Lundquist: we have an issue with a part of the 3 item
MT Lundquist: bill
MT Lundquist: 3rd
MT Lundquist: i agree that the two bills cover the same ground
Jon Seattle: MT this one: 3. Insure that software used in the election implements the rules for eligibility, voting, and counting votes as described in the constitution.
Jon Seattle: ?
MT Lundquist: no
MT Lundquist: agenda item 3
Jon Seattle: Ah nods.
MT Lundquist: paragraph item 2
Jon Seattle: Well, lets decide on the working session or not first?
ThePrincess? Parisi: we dont like point two jon
Beathan Vale: I move to send both bills to a working session prior to vote
Jon Seattle: I support that.
Patroklus Murakami: let’s take beathan’s proposal and consider that first
ThePrincess? Parisi: and …….for the record the citizen is a ver y strong CDSF supporter very ..past president
ThePrincess? Parisi: if not current
Beathan Vale: it’s a while until the next election — so we should not feel rushed here
ThePrincess? Parisi: no we shouldnt
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, what do you mean by a ‘working session’?
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets keep it on the forum for a while
ThePrincess? Parisi: let it evolve
ThePrincess? Parisi: we have six months
Beathan Vale: I want the proponents of the bill to meet with each other and the SC to see if we can merge the bills into a mutually agreeable compromise
ThePrincess? Parisi: we need a new sim before the next election too
MT Lundquist: thats fine with me
Jon Seattle: Pat, I object to Princess’s statement in this context. She should not be declaring another citizen’s political affiliations nor does she have special knowledge of the status of this bill.
Sudane Erato: ????
Beathan Vale: if any secton can’t be mutually agreed — it can be taken out for separate consideration as an amendement
Sudane Erato: a new sim??!!
Patroklus Murakami: let’s not get distracted
ThePrincess? Parisi: we have new citizens
Beathan Vale: I also agree to work with the proponents of these bills, as I have proposed amendements
Patroklus Murakami: so enough witht the new sim and accusations about ppl’s political affiliation and it’s significance
ThePrincess? Parisi: im jst stating a fact not an assumption jon
Beathan Vale: much of the voting controversy has hinged on the possibility that we acted with undue haste and less than full deliberation last time — let’s not do so again
Brian Livingston: Agreed
ThePrincess? Parisi: agreed beathan
Patroklus Murakami: that’s enough!
Jon Seattle: agreed
MT Lundquist: as i said i’m happy to do that
Patroklus Murakami: i call the discussion to an end
Patroklus Murakami: let’s vote on beathan’s motion
ThePrincess? Parisi: fair enough
Patroklus Murakami: pls scroll back if it got lost. then i need to hear ‘aye’ or ‘nay’ from the RA members
Beathan Vale: aye
MT Lundquist: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Brian Livingston: aye
Patroklus Murakami: thank you everyone 🙂
Leon Ash votes aye
Jon Seattle: Thank you
Patroklus Murakami: that concludes the business for today. i propose we adjourn
Beathan Vale: To the Ball!
Patroklus Murakami: indeed, to the ball!
ThePrincess? Parisi: since we are here can i bring up something
Jon Seattle: 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: the next sim.. doe s everyone one want that to go forward as quick as possible?
Patroklus Murakami: ThePrincess?, we have ended the business for today
Leon Ash: 🙁 Apologies. I can’t attend the ball. I ate the pumpkin 😉
Patroklus Murakami: we can discuss that after the meeting has finished
MT Lundquist: no you only prroposed
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh .. i didnt know i cant talk
MT Lundquist: ending it
ThePrincess? Parisi: we didnt aadjourn
ThePrincess? Parisi: pat why cant we talk about that? im confused
Patroklus Murakami: i call the vote on adjournment
ThePrincess? Parisi: NO
Patroklus Murakami: aye or nay please
ThePrincess? Parisi: NAY
MT Lundquist: nay
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Leon Ash votes aye
Leon Ash: Night everyone 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye leon
Feminist Expedition: nay 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: bye leon 🙂
Jon Seattle: lol, FE
Brian Livingston: aye
Sonja Strom: nay
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you sonja
Beathan Vale: nay
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you beathan
Beathan Vale: if we have something left for the good of the order, let’s hear it — but briefly please 😉
Patroklus Murakami: why are you voting against adjournment when there is no business on the table?
Beathan Vale: I have my dancing shoes on
ThePrincess? Parisi: i just wanted to ask everyone
Patroklus Murakami: if you wanted to raise ‘new sim’ submit an agenda item
ThePrincess? Parisi: what they think about the nextt sim
Patroklus Murakami: we don’t put items on the agenda in the meeting
ThePrincess? Parisi: i just wanna ask first so its just easy in the next session and i knwo what they think
Patroklus Murakami: so this discussion is out of order
ThePrincess? Parisi: we will submit a any other business item for short meetings
Sonja Strom: according to parliamentary rules?
Patroklus Murakami: happy to chat after the meeting. but this is out of order
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok thank you pat
Beathan Vale: Pat — I think that it is right and proper to have discussions about policies as well as about proposals
MT Lundquist: we just had a vote to keep the meeting open for this Pat
Beathan Vale: and such discussions should be of record
ThePrincess? Parisi: so we have to not adjourn but we cant talk
ThePrincess? Parisi: im confused
MT Lundquist: are you going against the vote
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok im sorry
Cindy Ecksol: Pat, it IS customary in meetings for the chair to ask if there is any other new business
ThePrincess? Parisi: but i dont understand why you didnt have addioanal business as an item
Patroklus Murakami: cindy, it is customary when ‘any other business’ is an item on the agenda. but it isn’t here
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you sonja.. why are making this difficult pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: you made a mistake pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: is that what happened?
ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry can you put that on fromnow on please
ThePrincess? Parisi: for every session
Beathan Vale: My proposal will add that
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you beathan
MT Lundquist: sensible
ThePrincess? Parisi: i wanted to just talk about the new sim?
ThePrincess? Parisi: is that so bad or is it true cdsf is going to try to stall it
ThePrincess? Parisi: i heard you were, now i wonder for sure
Patroklus Murakami: i think you shouldn’t listen to rumours 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: or start them
ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂 oh well do you want the next sim? whats your view
ThePrincess? Parisi: its your text, pat, i have the chat
Patroklus Murakami: is this the point of your intervention? to make pot shots at the CSDF
ThePrincess? Parisi: i heard it from you
Patroklus Murakami: i did not say that
ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry, so pat do you want to support getting the next sim out
Patroklus Murakami: i’m getting tired of these unsubstantiated allegations
ThePrincess? Parisi: i misunderstood then can you explain what you meant when you told me
ThePrincess? Parisi: that we shouldnt go for a new sim soon
Patroklus Murakami: it is very wearing having to deal with this kind of accusation
ThePrincess? Parisi: cos we had other things to do in the RA
ThePrincess? Parisi: im just trying to unederstand what you ment then
Patroklus Murakami: you shouldn’t twist other ppls words and use the RA as an arena for making these accusations
ThePrincess? Parisi: im not im asking you what you meant
ThePrincess? Parisi: do you intend to support a new sim asap
Patroklus Murakami: so, the point of you raising this is to grill me about a private conversation that you haven’t understood properly?
Beathan Vale: Sir — you will either die on the gallows or of the pox; sir, that depends on whether I embrace your principles or your mistress!
ThePrincess? Parisi: no i wanted everyone to talk about it
ThePrincess? Parisi: we would have been done by now
Beathan Vale: This does not seem that productive, I move to end debate
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye beathan
Patroklus Murakami: ty beathan
PMRobert Walpole: excuse me for interrupting
PMRobert Walpole: i am new here
Brian Livingston: Aye, thanks
Patroklus Murakami: aye, adjourn
Beathan Vale: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: i need to get dressed
MT Lundquist: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
PMRobert Walpole: ah
Sonja Strom: Robert?
Patroklus Murakami: we are adjourned
The meeting closed at 12:59 Linden time.RA Meeting: February 17, 2008
2. The RA passed the “In-theme” Expansion Enablement Act. (Ayes – Beathan, Brian, MT, ThePrincess, Patroklus. Sonja and Leon will have the chance to register their votes in the 7 days following the meeting).
3. The RA agreed to form a committee, with Beathan Vale as Chair, to consider the various suggestions being put forward to regulate the conduct of CDS elections.
4. The RA heard a report back from MT Lundquist on the first meeting of the Commerce Commission.
5. Beathan agreed to consult people on the ‘RA Process Bill’ and report back to the RA next week.
Transcript
ThePrincess? Parisi: the agenda does NOT have other business
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: i will restate my request for a n agenda too
ThePrincess? Parisi: you said you would do that
Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to being recorded
ThePrincess? Parisi has indicated consent to be recorded.
MT Lundquist has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale: that RA procedure had not passed yet
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t believe i agreed to that theprincess
ThePrincess? Parisi: Pat, please can for the record we have agendas before the meetings no later than fridaays.. i need to have time to read..and KNOW what is on the agend. thank you very much.
Patroklus Murakami: in fact, i’ve made my opposition to ‘any other business’ items pretty clear
ThePrincess? Parisi: And please sir, kindly can you always have any other business, so we have some control too of bringing things up.
MT Lundquist: well i want an aob on each agenda pat
MT Lundquist: i made that clear
Patroklus Murakami: they’re often misused as ‘amush’ items, like last week
Patroklus Murakami: *ambush
ThePrincess? Parisi: your power is misused sir
Patroklus Murakami: did you have an item of any other business you wanted to raise today?
Brian Livingston kinds likes the word ‘amush’ and might start usign it in everyday conversations….
ThePrincess? Parisi: i might at th end
Beathan Vale:
Patroklus Murakami: well, perhaps you could let us know now what it would be?
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol beathan
MT Lundquist: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi passes beathans a starbucks card
MT Lundquist: i move to vary the order of todays agenda
MT Lundquist: i would like to see beathans iten first
MT Lundquist: item
ThePrincess? Parisi: second
Beathan Vale: no — I was up to 2 pots per day — so I took this weekend to go through withdrawal
Beathan Vale: second
Patroklus Murakami: sorry MT but that is not permitted
ThePrincess? Parisi: tylenol helps
ThePrincess? Parisi: third then
Beathan Vale: wait — which of my items?
MT Lundquist: the ra process bill
Beathan Vale: kk
Leon Ash: I’m really sorry everyone, but I can’t be asked to attend a ‘meeting’ where the first 15 minutes has delivered nothing but aggrevations.
Beathan Vale: kk — second — but even if it passes, I don’t think it can control this meeting
Leon Ash: There seems to be no common decency left and I don’t need to be here.
Patroklus Murakami: it’s not very pleasant, is it?
Leon Ash: night all
Patroklus Murakami: bye leon 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye
Patroklus Murakami: happy now?
MT Lundquist: what asking for a change to the agenda order
Patroklus Murakami: MT, can i refer you to the RA meeting procedures?
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll find the link in a second
Beathan Vale: that was uncalled for – frankly, if Leon’s skin is so thin, he should reconsider his service
Patroklus Murakami: leon’s not the only one to have noted the tone set by RA members in meetings so far…
Patroklus Murakami: http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-index.php?page=RA+Meeting+Procedures
ThePrincess? Parisi: this is the second meeting
Patroklus Murakami: is the link you need MT
Beathan Vale: yes — I also note the tone – but a noisy withdrawal is not helpful
MT Lundquist: i shall study it
Patroklus Murakami: this is the third. the tone went downhill at the second
ThePrincess? Parisi: i aplogize
ThePrincess? Parisi: apologize then
Patroklus Murakami: ty
Danton Sideways: Can anyone tell me if I touched the recorder?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i need the agenda prior to meetings as a personal thing pat
Danton Sideways: There are too many things on the table
Patroklus Murakami: if u touch it again danton it will tell if you signed in already
Danton Sideways: Where is it?
Patroklus Murakami: can we move to the first item now?
Danton Sideways has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: it has ‘recorder on’ above it in white text danton 🙂
Beathan Vale: we have a motion to reorder the agenda
Brian Livingston: The way I read the RA procedures, the only way members can modify the agenda is to issue a petition to add an item to the next meeting’s agenda if the item ahs been withheld by the LRA.
Beathan Vale: seconded and proper — let’s vote on the motion
Patroklus Murakami: your motion is out of order. pls read the RA meeting procedures
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you
Patroklus Murakami: “The Leader of the RA (LRA) will determine the agenda for each meeting, and publish it on a notecard before each meeting. It is expected that all members will suggest agenda items, but the LRA will make the final determination. If the membership feels that the LRA has not brought an agenda item to the meeting that they want, a petition agreed to by a majority of all members can insert an agenda item into the list for the next meeting. The LRA at all times determines the order of the agenda.”
Beathan Vale:
ThePrincess? Parisi: well you dont publish before the meeting
ThePrincess? Parisi: puting in a boz x is not publishing
ThePrincess? Parisi: and publish it on a notecard before each meeting
Patroklus Murakami: aah but i did. it was put in the box before the meeting started 🙂 but i will try to publish it on the forums as you requested. can we move on now?
ThePrincess? Parisi: you must be kidding it was after noon
ThePrincess? Parisi: noon is the start of the meeting
Bromo Ivory snickers
ThePrincess? Parisi: and my gosh are you kidding
ThePrincess? Parisi: you are a political griefer
ThePrincess? Parisi: before is not as the meeting stsarts
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, i have followed the same procedures for these meetings for over six months and the same ones that claude enacted for the year and a half before
Patroklus Murakami: your insult ‘political griefer’ is uncalled for and rude
ThePrincess? Parisi: at least i said mine in open
Beathan Vale: also — I note that determining the order of the agenda is different from procedual motions to adjust the agenda — and such a motion should be proper
Patroklus Murakami: for the third time, can we move on to the business of the meeting? or are you going to disrupt the whole meeting and guarantee that nothing is achieved?
ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry to call you that, but it just seems you are being unreasonalble
Patroklus Murakami: i am, frankly, shocked by the irresponsible behaviour displated today. don’t you want to make progress on a new sim? or would you rather bicker all day?
Patroklus Murakami: *displayed even
MT Lundquist: we all want to progress pat
Patroklus Murakami: item 1. code reorganisation
Danton Sideways: I am I allowed to speak as member of the audience?
Bromo Ivory notes that the whole RA is in quite a mood and no one member ought to be pointing fingers
Patroklus Murakami: danton, it might help to save it til later 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: we are just about to discuss an agenda item at long last!
Danton Sideways: Ok I’ll say it later
Patroklus Murakami: code reorganisation was raised by the csdf and simplicity in the last election. we have looked at this before but not achieved a conclusion
Patroklus Murakami: this bill aims to complete the work
Patroklus Murakami: brian, you had some comments about this
Patroklus Murakami: i think you were questioning whether we needed to add another bill to our code in order to simplify what we have
Patroklus Murakami: which is a very good point1
Patroklus Murakami: !
Patroklus Murakami: would you care to come in? and then i’ll open up the item for discussion
Jon Seattle: Perhaps the bill count self-distruct after a certain time.
Brian Livingston: Well, simply put, my thought is that a workign group could be extablished that would accomplish the same thing as thsi bill without the need for mroe legislation…
Lincoln Beck: hello
ThePrincess? Parisi: hi lincoln
Brian Livingston: The RA procedures actually permit the LRA to form a committee without a bill and set a mandate for suc ha group, if I read the procedures correctly
ThePrincess? Parisi: makes sense to me
Patroklus Murakami: hi lincoln
Patroklus Murakami: that’s correct brian
Patroklus Murakami: it’s how i propose we handle items 3 and 4
Patroklus Murakami: other comments?
Bromo Ivory notes that with ROberts Rules Pat would have a much easier time controlling the RA agenda and meeting
Brian Livingston: Again, I am 100% behind code roerganization. It’s bee na centerpiece of SP policy and I would love to help out wherever I can. I’m jsut for doing this as simply as possible, asnd wif we have the mechanism in placefor the LRA to establish a comittee, I say let’s do it and move on?
Patroklus Murakami: brian, i think you were also suggesting how we might do this regularly so we don’t have a build up of extinct laws?
Beathan Vale: second
Brian Livingston: Well, that too, if the floor is still open…
ThePrincess? Parisi: please i dont understand
Brian Livingston: If nto I’ll post in the forums
Patroklus Murakami: let’s try to clear up any confusion
Patroklus Murakami: what didn’t you understand the princess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: the crb you want to combine and 4?
ThePrincess? Parisi: is that what you meant?
Patroklus Murakami: oh no
ThePrincess? Parisi: and regularly means how long
ThePrincess? Parisi: often
Patroklus Murakami: we’re just looking at item 1
ThePrincess? Parisi: what is and 4 you said
Patroklus Murakami: well, brian pointed out that the LRA can set up a committee at any time (according to the RA procedures)
Patroklus Murakami: so we don’t really need a bill to establish a code reorganisation committeee
Patroklus Murakami: i said i’d like to adopt the same approach for items 3 and 4
Beathan Vale: brb
ThePrincess? Parisi: so why is it on the agenda
Jon Seattle: … though as I understand that it is a committee of the RA (and has no formal place for non-RA members)(.
Patroklus Murakami: but, don’t worry. agreeing to this on item 1 does not affect the others
Brian Livingston: point made Jon
Patroklus Murakami: “The LRA can create (or propose for creation) committees of members for the purpose of study and information gathering on proposed topics (bills, agenda items of all sorts). Committees will be formed of volunteers, and the LRA will make efforts to ensure that committees contain a balanced range of faction members and positions. Committee members can be non-members of the RA. Each topic that a committe receives for attention must be brought back to the RA for action, even if the recommendation is to drop it. ”
Brian Livingston: Wait…
Brian Livingston: 4) Committees. The LRA can create (or propose for creation) committees of members for the purpose of study and information gathering on proposed topics (bills, agenda items of all sorts). Committees will be formed of volunteers, and the LRA will make efforts to ensure that committees contain a balanced range of faction members and positions. Committee members can be non-members of the RA. Each topic that a committe receives for attention must be brought back to the RA for action, even if the recommendation is to drop it.
MT Lundquist: do you mean items 3 and 4 on the first bill pat
Jon Seattle: Ah, good.
Patroklus Murakami: so non-members *can* join the committee 🙂
Bromo Ivory hopes Pat doesn’t create huge bureaucracies that he was afraid of last term
MT Lundquist: or agenda items 3 and 4
Brian Livingston is a few seocnds behind today
ThePrincess? Parisi: when you say item one do you mean the whole bill or the number one on the bil
Beathan Vale: bib
Patroklus Murakami: no MT, agenda items 3 and 4
ThePrincess? Parisi: sheesh
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Beathan Vale: As we have seen already in this session — item 4 is too important to delay in committee
MT Lundquist: yes i agree with Beathan
Beathan Vale: I thought a committee would be OK — but the LRA convinced me othewise this morning
ThePrincess? Parisi: well do we tqlk now about what you said about agenda items and 4
ThePrincess? Parisi: as far as CR bill.. i think its fine
MT Lundquist: can we deal with the agenda items in their order please pat as you indicated earlier we should do that
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, the point of putting item 4 to a committee is so we could consider it properly. i don’t think that trying to ram it through with minimal discussion is really the best way forward
ThePrincess? Parisi: why are we talking about agenda item 4 now pat
Patroklus Murakami: and, yes MT. let’s retain our focus on item 1
MT Lundquist: Pat you are taking items out of order
ThePrincess? Parisi: see i am confused enough
ThePrincess? Parisi: agenda item one i think is good
Patroklus Murakami: ok. i’d like to call the discussion on item 1 to a close and move to a vote
ThePrincess? Parisi: second
Beathan Vale: I move that we pass agenda item 1 as a informal establishment of a committee rather than as a permanent standing statute
Brian Livingston: Vote on teh bill or creation of committee sans bill?
ThePrincess? Parisi: why beathan
ThePrincess? Parisi: sans sense
Patroklus Murakami: i withdraw the bill
Beathan Vale: clutter — it would be ironic to create the very clutter this bill is supposed to fix
ThePrincess? Parisi: can you withdraw a bill after its on the floor
Brian Livingston: I’ll be the first to admit I was draftign ab ill on thsi topic until recently, but when I noticed that clause in the RA procedures, it’s a much simpler way of accomplishign the same end goal.
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to propose that we create a committee with the task of reorganising our code of laws along the lines of the bill
Beathan Vale: second
Brian Livingston cannot type today :/
Patroklus Murakami: and that brian chairs the committee
Patroklus Murakami: ty beatha
Beathan Vale: second second
Patroklus Murakami: *beathan even
Patroklus Murakami: could i have your votes please?
Beathan Vale: aye
Patroklus Murakami votes aya
Brian Livingston: aye
MT Lundquist: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
Patroklus Murakami: *aye
Patroklus Murakami: the motion is carried
Patroklus Murakami: item 2
Patroklus Murakami: we have two bills before us on expansion. theprincess and i have both posted ours on the forums
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, would you like to introduce your bill first?
ThePrincess? Parisi: it is a NuCARE bill and MT will present it
Patroklus Murakami: MT, after you
MT Lundquist: we bleive that adopting our bill will lead to a more rapid development of the next sim
MT Lundquist: we believe that work of developing by the guild will be honoured
MT Lundquist: that working things through in parallel will asiist this
MT Lundquist: we also wish to combine the bills as they are about the same objective
MT Lundquist: speed is paramount
MT Lundquist: as we note that CDSF aim for 18 sims by 2010
MT Lundquist: thats one evry 2 months
MT Lundquist: by my count
MT Lundquist: ty
Patroklus Murakami: that’s not quite how we planned to do it, but that’s a separate point
Patroklus Murakami: i had a question on the forums that hasn’t been answered, could you respond now? i’ll cut and paste
Beathan Vale: why does the NuCARE bill exclude lot layout from the planning?
Patroklus Murakami: “I’m puzzled about the requirement to commission topography etc but not plot divisions etc. What’s the rationale for that? In my post about streamlining ‘in theme’ expansion here I suggested that both these tasks (and some others) should take place at the same time in Phase I. The reason for this is so that we have a reasonably firm plan on which to do essential market research and check that there is sufficient demand to justify the expansion. No one’s raised any objections to that in the thread. Is there a reason why we shouldn’t do this all one go at the start of the process? It would seem to make sense if we are to do this as efficiently as possible.”
Bromo Ivory: Would it make sense to have plots defined?
Patroklus Murakami: i.e. ‘what beathan said’ 🙂
Beathan Vale: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: we are open to the lot layout as long as it has a lot of lots
Bromo Ivory: I know the nuCARE had a platform favoring smaller lots
MT Lundquist: we have a general proposal in terms of plots in our manifesto
Jon Seattle: Bromo, the plots do influence the organization of the topographic design and visa versa
Bromo Ivory: And CSDF favors lots of SIMs
MT Lundquist: plots of 512 to maximise citizen take up
ThePrincess? Parisi: true
Bromo Ivory: So I don’t see a large conflict
ThePrincess? Parisi: moons plans are fine
MT Lundquist: new citizen
MT Lundquist: the detailposituion is we believe a later item
Patroklus Murakami: jon has a very valid point there, topography can’t be divorced from plot sizes etc. they influence each other
Bromo Ivory: This is true
ThePrincess? Parisi: flat is good
Bromo Ivory: But we have a lot of elevation
Patroklus Murakami: brb
Bromo Ivory: And the mountainsides will have to be double prim or so to have rational lots
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok that can be done quickly
Beathan Vale: Can we then add language tot he CSDF bill that says “the next two sims will aim as expanding citizenship my maximizing the number of small and medium residential lots”
Bromo Ivory likes that
Beathan Vale: or maybe “small and medium reisidential and commercial lots”
ThePrincess? Parisi likes that too
Brian Livingston: Hmm… I would think that would be in specific intructions to the New Guild on sim requirementes for each project, not in the main bill outlining the procedure
MT Lundquist: that would help maximise citizen take up
ThePrincess? Parisi: how do we prevent the committees stalling the sims development
Patroklus Murakami: well, the four phase outline we’ve proposed makes it clear who does what at each stage of the process. there are measures there to ensure that logjams are unblocked
Patroklus Murakami: would it help if I outlined the rationale behind our bill at this point?
Patroklus Murakami is suffering from chat lag 🙂
MT Lundquist: we would would like to see Beathans statement added
MT Lundquist: and an anti logjam provision
MT Lundquist: we want the sim to move quickly
Patroklus Murakami: to our bill? or yours?
ThePrincess? Parisi: yours
MT Lundquist: to yours
MT Lundquist: we are concerned that it is not held up in committee
Beathan Vale: or — as a policy goal — could we state as a policy that we want to expand citizenship lots and let the guild work it out — following specific instructions from us
ThePrincess? Parisi: we want cooperation and progess
Beathan Vale: I think that one concern is that we have enough public land already —
MT Lundquist: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: <--------nods
Beathan Vale: (I'm not sure that we have neough parkland — and I would like to see an Opera house and a sports stadium)
Patroklus Murakami: well, i think we need to discuss what the aims of the next expansion are. but that's a discussion to have after passing a framework
Patroklus Murakami: ours is a framework bill
Brian Livingston: FWIW, this will neccessitate a change to the New Guild's charter I would assume, as the charter already specifies the procedure for sim development
Beathan Vale: PAt — I tend to agree
Brian Livingston: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1091
Patroklus Murakami: so i don't accept the amendment. this is a framework bill. we should discuss the aims for the next sim separately in my opinion
ThePrincess? Parisi: what you dont like the plan of the guild?
MT Lundquist: in which case we cant withdraw our bill
ThePrincess? Parisi: they already did the work, please explain
Brian Livingston: I agree with Pat re: the amendment
Beathan Vale: we will need to pass a specific bill instructing the Guild to plan and build a sim — and we can put the details of what kind of sim it shoudl be in that bill
Jon Seattle: Brian is right about the NGuild charter, but it is a minor adjustment. The procedure in the charter was intended for new themes only. It should not be difficult to allow for same-theme development.
Patroklus Murakami: i'd like to introduce our bill formally, could i have the floor for a few minutes?
Brian Livingston: Ok, thanks Jon 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: it's clear that many of us agree we should expand in the next six months
Patroklus Murakami: and the quickest way we can do that is by expanding our existing themes (rather than by holding a full public contest for a new one)
Patroklus Murakami: in doing that we need to learn the lessons from the past two expansions
Patroklus Murakami: the 'in-theme' expansion bill has been thought through on the basis of recent experience and the CN expansion
Patroklus Murakami: it's a framework bill
Patroklus Murakami: it sets out who has to do what at which points in the process
Patroklus Murakami: who is responsible for certain decisions
Patroklus Murakami: and who is responsible for breaking logjams
Patroklus Murakami: if we pass this we can quickly move on to discuss what our priorities for the next sim will be
Patroklus Murakami: and agree guidance for the New Guild (as developers) about plot sizes, overall objectives etc
Patroklus Murakami: does anyone have any questions or comments about it? i'd be very happy to answer/consider them
Patroklus Murakami: either i've stunned you into silence or i've been logged out 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we add beathans
ThePrincess? Parisi: items
Beathan Vale: I withdraw my amendment based on your explanation that such considerations are best submitted separately
ThePrincess? Parisi: to your bill
Patroklus Murakami: and have been typing to thin air for a few minutes 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ty beathan
Patroklus Murakami: ok, let's move to the vote. i propose to take the 'in-theme' expansion enablement bill first and then the Colonia Nova Urban Development Bill
Beathan Vale: second
Brian Livingston: Oh, quick question regardign hte nucare bill
Brian Livingston: nm
Patroklus Murakami: go on brian
Patroklus Murakami: (btw we will be having a 7-day vote on all items today)
MT Lundquist: we will withdraw our bill
Patroklus Murakami: ty MT
Brian Livingston: It was really in the NM, it's moot
Patroklus Murakami: so, on the 'in-theme' expansion enablement bill, could i have your votes please?
MT Lundquist: aye
Patroklus Murakami votes aye
Beathan Vale: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: YIPPIE AYE
Brian Livingston: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: KI O
Danton Sideways: Applause
Bromo Ivory is glad Princess didn't vote "Yuppie Aye"
Patroklus Murakami: that passes, but leon and sonja will have their chance to vote over the next seven days
ThePrincess? Parisi: LOL
Danton Sideways: Congratulations everyone. Gotta go.
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye danton
Jon Seattle: Bye Danton
Patroklus Murakami: bye danton, ty for coming
Bromo Ivory is ahppy and is hopeful CS can grow larger than Caledon!
Brian Livingston waves to Danton
Alexicon Kurka: congrats all of you that you settled so easily on this important matter
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you alexicon. party at two on the docks wihen you melt the snow
ThePrincess? Parisi: ooo
Patroklus Murakami: we have a number of decisions to make in regard to phase I. I suggest we do some of that on the forums over the next week but, does anyone present have things they want to say? i'll post the criteria from the bill:
Patroklus Murakami: (i) the rough number of plots (ii) the range of sizes of plots (iii) price and affordability (iv) single/double prim (v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land (vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory.
MT Lundquist: hi sonja
Patroklus Murakami: hi sonja:) glad you could make it
Sonja Strom: hi - sorry I've been trying to connect for almost 2 hours.
Brian Livingston: FWIW, I would love to see an opera house in the CDs at some point. Maybe not this next sim but eventually 🙂
Jon Seattle: Hi Sonja 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: oh no
Brian Livingston: Ack!
Sonja Strom: I ended up driving to a different town!
ThePrincess? Parisi: agreed beathan
ThePrincess? Parisi: wow.. i mean brian, and thanks sonja, thats dedication
ThePrincess? Parisi: can she still vote?
Patroklus Murakami: well, if sonja wants to. i'll fill you in
Patroklus Murakami: we just passed the 'in-theme' expansion enablement bill (notecards are in the box on the table)
Patroklus Murakami: it passed 5-0 but, as leon requested a 7-day vote you may cast your vote now or over the next 7 days
Patroklus Murakami: no pressure 🙂
Sonja Strom: OK.
Patroklus Murakami: we were just about to have a preliminary discussion on the criteria for sim 4
Sonja Strom: But if I voted no it would still pass...
Patroklus Murakami: yes, it would
ThePrincess? Parisi: we all voted yes sonja
Sonja Strom: I will wait to cast my vote.
Sonja Strom: May I have the bill on a notecard?
ThePrincess? Parisi: good girl
Patroklus Murakami: ok, now i've reread my meeting procedures i know that you may do so!
Patroklus Murakami: notecards for all items are in the box on the table
Sonja Strom: thanks
Patroklus Murakami: so, thoughts on the new sim? brian has lobbied for an opera house. i strongly support that
Sonja Strom: OK, got them.
Patroklus Murakami: i wonder if we might also consider relocating the MoCA? it looks v out of place in downtown NFS
Sonja Strom: I agree with that - I love the museum, but another place for it could look better.
Brian Livingston would lobby for a large eucalyptus tree in the center of the sim but thinks that might be a stretch :p
Bromo Ivory: lol
Sonja Strom: Visitors comment on that too.
Patroklus Murakami: nice try, brian
MT Lundquist: lol
Brian Livingston: Perhaps an arts district in a future sim? That biegn said, it may draw visitors to one sim and cause less trafic to go to NFS?
Patroklus Murakami: i was making some machinima in NFS today and it really struck me how much it stands out
ThePrincess? Parisi: visitors begat visitors.. and well guided tour them everywhere if we get them
MT Lundquist: we are keen to maximise the new citizen count with the new sim
Bromo Ivory: In a lot of ways it is a modernization in the place, but it is in stark contrast to the theme
MT Lundquist: as citizens are what democracy is about
ThePrincess? Parisi: there is a thing in your bill about hold ing new land for citizens
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think you mean noncitizens first dont you
MT Lundquist: we support a more residential feel to the next sim
ThePrincess? Parisi: for trhe new sim? is that a typeo
ThePrincess? Parisi: i guess im late asking that
Patroklus Murakami: say again theprincess? which bit?
ThePrincess? Parisi: the sim..
ThePrincess? Parisi: new sim..
Bromo Ivory: She was talking about having a hold back for new citizens?
ThePrincess? Parisi: are you holding the land sales first for new citizens not old ones right like AM
Brian Livingston: I actually sorta like the MoCA where it is for its contrast. It makes NFS not seem like a fully historical sim but an organic place to live
ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan wants new ones
ThePrincess? Parisi: agreed brian
Bromo Ivory agreeswith Brian, but maybe a MoCA II
Patroklus Murakami: aah, we've always offered land in new sims to current residents first. and the bill reflects that
ThePrincess? Parisi: thats contradictory to your explanation of the bill
Sonja Strom: Maybe we could have a couple of other more modern structures in Neufreistadt, so it is not alone in having such a style.
Beathan Vale: Pat — I think we should change that — but let's not sell lots before they're built
Bromo Ivory: Well its passed, but we can pass an amendmeent to the bill
Sonja Strom: There is the southern area of the city that has to be redeveloped.
ThePrincess? Parisi: the point is that we expand citizen base
Beathan Vale: we won't be selling lots for a while — we can always revisit the sales plan later
Patroklus Murakami:
sigh
i don't think it is theprincess. but we can discuss that at a later date. we don't have to offer *all* the new sim to existing citizens
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok ..
MT Lundquist: yes perhaps we do that
ThePrincess? Parisi: for a few weeks
Sonja Strom: If it is more small properties that are wanted, if the museum were moved it would allow residential properties on that land.
Jon Seattle: I should explain that in the past we have been more concerned about getting people to buy the new plots. I think it is less of a worry now.
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: no we are out of land now
ThePrincess? Parisi: i show land at CDS weekly
ThePrincess? Parisi: twice this week i had ppl without land to buy wanting land
Patroklus Murakami: so, does nucare want the whole sim to be 512 lots? how many?
Sonja Strom: There are a couple of pieces of land available now,
ThePrincess? Parisi: no we dont want all 512 necessarilly
Sonja Strom: and that is without developing the south area of NFS,
ThePrincess? Parisi: 512 and 1024 is good
Sonja Strom: which still has not been done.
Bromo Ivory: Pat, the nuCARE manifesto was talking about emphasizing smaller plots to encourage new citizens
MT Lundquist: yes
Bromo Ivory: Affordable entry
ThePrincess? Parisi: we are flexible with what ever gets new ppl in .. small lots with out houses on them
ThePrincess? Parisi: ppl want to build their own small places as newbies
Bromo Ivory: My first land in CDS was a small plot in NFS
Sonja Strom: NFS could be good for that.
ThePrincess? Parisi: or second lots
Bromo Ivory: Expansion to NFS could be that
Naftali Torok: evening everybody, waves a hug
Patroklus Murakami: if we expanded NFS and CN we could have many affordable lots in 'East NFS' with some 144m2 lots to provide lots of properties
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye naffy
Bromo Ivory: Hi Naf!
Patroklus Murakami: hi naftali 🙂
Pip Torok: -Hi Naf
ThePrincess? Parisi: yeah....hi even
Sonja Strom: not only expansion, but development of what exists already.
Naftali Torok: lol
Jon Seattle: Hi Naf 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hehe, everyone as the same idea on NFS 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: well i agree we have too much empty public space, surround it with lots for citizens
Sonja Strom: Hi Naftali
ThePrincess? Parisi: if we have to put public to the side, then do it next time
Bromo Ivory: Well with the right multiple on land
Patroklus Murakami: yes bromo, i agree
Bromo Ivory: But the Guild will have tis work cut out for it
ThePrincess? Parisi: and did you thinkdesmods void sims ideas
ThePrincess? Parisi: yeah
Patroklus Murakami: double prim would help
ThePrincess? Parisi: im not afraid to have too many ppl
Sonja Strom: Some of the public space is to be developed, but that just has not been done yet.
ThePrincess? Parisi: double prim cuts the lot number
Bromo Ivory: 256 double prims and 512 double prims
ThePrincess? Parisi: and raises the price
Sonja Strom: At least, that is my understanding.
ThePrincess? Parisi: not all double prim
Bromo Ivory: Still, this is a good problem to have
ThePrincess? Parisi: does double prim how it is purchased
Bromo Ivory: This is a technical issue
ThePrincess? Parisi: well not if money is an issue
Patroklus Murakami: let's move on in five minutes to the next item
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Sonja Strom: What does double prim mean?
ThePrincess? Parisi: dont tell her ill take her half
Sonja Strom: Is it that the sim has 2x as many prims,
Jon Seattle: I would recomment giving the guild a high residency sim as a guideline, but letting them be a bit creative about it.
Bromo Ivory: Oh instead of 117 prims per 512m, it is 234 per 512m
Sonja Strom: or only how they are distributed?
Bromo Ivory: Jon - this is a great idea
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes two times the prims on each lot
Bromo Ivory: Maybe the Guild could respond of what Guidance they would require?
ThePrincess? Parisi: good idea bromo
Jon Seattle hears a pin drop 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: reading
Brian Livingston: I agree with Jon's recommendation
MT Lundquist: so do i
ThePrincess? Parisi: iso do i
ThePrincess? Parisi: did we get a five minute break
ThePrincess? Parisi: brb
Sonja Strom: ok
Patroklus Murakami: okay, take two and we'll resume agenda item 3 at 1:30
Brian Livingston: If you tie the hands of the Guild too much durign the design phase, you'll behanmpering their creativity. Give them guidelines and feedback ,btu be careful about stepping o ntheir toes 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: wise words brian. we don't want to be too prescriptive, but at the same time we don't want to agree the colour of the bathroom handles by committtee 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: -we have bathrooms?
Patroklus Murakami: you don't? :p
ThePrincess? Parisi: im all for letting them be creative
Bromo Ivory: SL bathrroms? Scary what one might Rez
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have a powder room
Patroklus Murakami: LOL
Patroklus Murakami: department of no surprise!
Patroklus Murakami: okay, let's move on
Brian Livingston is all for avocado tiles to be utilized in all kitchens in the CDs with Mustard Yellow appliances and tangerine colored furniture
Patroklus Murakami: item 3. various electoral change bills
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest that, rather than consider these now, we should form a committee to consider the issues and come back with proposals that can command a majority at the RA
MT Lundquist: agreewith that
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes this is very important and should not be rushed
Patroklus Murakami: there's no rush, is there? the next elections aren't until july. provided we give ourselves time to enact any changes well, that's all we need to do
ThePrincess? Parisi: agreed
Patroklus Murakami: who would like to participate?
ThePrincess? Parisi: me
ThePrincess? Parisi: maybe flyingroc
Patroklus Murakami: jon, beathan? how about you?
Jon Seattle: Yes, I am willing.
Beathan Vale: I will
ThePrincess? Parisi: cindy
MT Lundquist: i will to
Patroklus Murakami: it would be good to get some SC involvement too
Patroklus Murakami: (but don't let that hold you up too long)
ThePrincess? Parisi: come on beathan you dont have anything to do
Patroklus Murakami: who would like to lead this? i.e. make sure things happen?
Bromo Ivory: (Pat?)
Patroklus Murakami: no way!
ThePrincess? Parisi: MT
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, too busy
MT Lundquist: i can yes
Bromo Ivory: Pat or MT
Beathan Vale: I can too
ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan
Bromo Ivory: Beathan would be good
MT Lundquist: i'm happy for beathan to do it
Patroklus Murakami: ok, is that agreed then?
ThePrincess? Parisi: go mohawk
Patroklus Murakami: hearing no objection, that is what we'll do
Patroklus Murakami: now, one thing i forgot to do at the start
Patroklus Murakami: was ask MT to report back from the commerce commission
Patroklus Murakami: i know you have had one meeting so far
ThePrincess? Parisi: he cant
ThePrincess? Parisi: its not on the agenda
Patroklus Murakami: i was at it yesterday, and it went very well
Bromo Ivory: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh you cant talk
Patroklus Murakami: do you have anything to report
ThePrincess? Parisi: how come you can ad business
ThePrincess? Parisi: and we cant
Brian Livingston: Quick question... is there any way we can move the meetings an hour or two later on saturdays for teh commision?
MT Lundquist: yes i can do that brian
MT Lundquist: the first meeting was a brain storming meeting
Patroklus Murakami: well, i did intend to put this on the agenda at the start of the meeting but i forgot. (human, sorry). do we want to have a report or wait til next week?
MT Lundquist: to establish views from interestined parties
ThePrincess? Parisi: no you are excused 🙂
MT Lundquist: interested*
Jon Seattle: I have to get going. thanks everyone.
MT Lundquist: next week we will look at lots around the sims to determine whether and how they are being used to inform the commission
ThePrincess? Parisi: bye jon ty
Brian Livingston waves to Jon
Patroklus Murakami: bye jon 🙂
Bromo Ivory: Bye Jon!
MT Lundquist: the meeting was well attend
MT Lundquist: and lots of input
MT Lundquist: I will post on the forum shortly
Patroklus Murakami: ty MT. i'm sure we'll return to this in future weeks
Patroklus Murakami: next, item 4
ThePrincess? Parisi: didnt beathan have a bill
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, would you like to introduce your bill?
Beathan Vale: I have proposed several changes to the RA procedures — some of these just clarify the xisting the procedure — but some modify it substantially
Beathan Vale: the most significan cange would be to use Roberts Rules of Order to govern meetings — I think that we need a more formal and clear procedure — and one that is scalable — and we don't have such a procedure now
Beathan Vale: additionally - I propose that we add a "good of the CDS" period ot our meeting s- -not to allow ambush but to encourae discussion and reveal issues we on the RA might nothave on our radar
Sonja Strom: I agree. I thought we were using them already. 😐
MT Lundquist: i support this proposal
ThePrincess? Parisi: we need something:)
Beathan Vale: I propose that we break the bill into its pieces and consider each separately
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we add the agendas are here the day before
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets do that beathan
Patroklus Murakami: i agree with approach beathan
Sonja Strom: Perhaps a "Public Discussion Time."
Bromo Ivory: "New items" or "items not on agenda"
ThePrincess? Parisi: im not good withthe frist paragraph
ThePrincess? Parisi: honestly i think we need to vote here
Patroklus Murakami: let's take things one at a time
Beathan Vale: I don't wnat an "itmes not on agenda" because it is important that no votes be taken — but I do agree with a discussion period
Patroklus Murakami: let's discuss the first paragraph first
Sonja Strom: "Open Discussion Period."
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, what is your objection to this?
Bromo Ivory: Yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: well i posted this on the forums too.. right now we have an audience
ThePrincess? Parisi: and they need to see their govt in action
Beathan Vale: paragraph 1 just clarifies existing procedures I think
ThePrincess? Parisi: hey need to see us vote, and be privy to that process
ThePrincess? Parisi: well we need to vote if we are here
Beathan Vale: so — TP — you want to do away with the 7 day vote procedure?
ThePrincess? Parisi: nooo
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think we should have 7 day if we are absent
Patroklus Murakami: how dos this differ from the procedures we have at present?
ThePrincess? Parisi: but if we are here we should vote
Patroklus Murakami: *does
Patroklus Murakami: "If all present concur, the vote may occur at the in-world meeting. Otherwise, or if one of the members not present has made a public request to do so prior to the meeting, the members vote before the next in world meeting. The results are published in the forum, along with how each member voted." What's the difference?
ThePrincess? Parisi: id like to hear from the public on this........
Sonja Strom: I would like tor the bill to have an exact name for the "for the good of the CDS discussion period"
Beathan Vale: well — the purpose of that is to prevent RA members from being required to vote on items they are not prepared to vote on — which is what happened to TP last term
ThePrincess? Parisi: soemone is always not here
ThePrincess? Parisi: well if we get an agenda before hadn.. maybe we can be prepared always
Patroklus Murakami: sonja, we'll come to that later. let's stick to para 1 first
Beathan Vale: Pat — no difference — but it does clarify that votes aer final - which is not yet clariifed ,a lthoug I think it is implied
Sonja Strom: ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think if we are here we should vote, and if we have an agenda before teh meeting we can be prepared
Patroklus Murakami: why do need to clarify that votes are final? when has that ever been challenged?
Brian Livingston: What stops someone from signign off mid-meetign to avoid voting? It;'s a tactic that would be legal, although arguably dishonest
Beathan Vale: Pat — paragraph 1 is more prudential and needful
Brian Livingston: well, legal is a bad word... replace that with permitted
ThePrincess? Parisi: nothing brian
Patroklus Murakami: prudential and needful? what does that mean?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think the citizens want to see us vote
Beathan Vale: no need — but I think that my language makes things more clear
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, do you have an amendment? you said you want RA members present to vote in the meetings. how might we include that?
ThePrincess? Parisi: it makes teh meetings moot and i think ppl wont come
Beathan Vale: I think that will cause problems
Beathan Vale: voting on the forus has been fine — and there is nothin wrong with a "presence" vote inworld for purposes of a quorum followed by a forum vote when the RA member needs more time to think something through
ThePrincess? Parisi: you have made me vote if im here in the past
ThePrincess? Parisi: what did i miss
ThePrincess? Parisi: if we are here we have to vote
Beathan Vale: TP — that was a mistake — and Pat has apologized
ThePrincess? Parisi: well thats how it was ALL last term
ThePrincess? Parisi: you always made me vote in session
Patroklus Murakami: well,i explained (twice) that that was a mistake due to a misunderstanding of the rules
ThePrincess? Parisi: well that is a good rule i think
ThePrincess? Parisi: will the citizens please say if they care if we vote live or on the forums
Patroklus Murakami: well, we need an amendment to beathan's text to make that change. does anyone have one?
ThePrincess? Parisi: alexicon
ThePrincess? Parisi: bromo
ThePrincess? Parisi: naffy
ThePrincess? Parisi: lincoln
ThePrincess? Parisi: does anyone care if we vote here or later
ThePrincess? Parisi: no one is even here.. lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: nvm
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok i was wrong again
Bromo Ivory: As long as the rules are consistent I am OK with it
ThePrincess? Parisi: so does that go for voting like for chancellor even
ThePrincess? Parisi: these are public events
ThePrincess? Parisi: im not ok with not involving the public
Beathan Vale: the forums are public
Sonja Strom: I think my preference is for voting to take place in the RA meetings, and if we miss them then we miss the opportunity... but I do not feel strongly about this.
ThePrincess? Parisi: we need MORE face to face with the public not less
Patroklus Murakami: well, if the vote is recorded on the forums surely the transparency point is met?
ThePrincess? Parisi: you can vote after the fact sonja if you are gone
ThePrincess? Parisi: but if you are here then you can vote here
ThePrincess? Parisi: im just worried no one will bother to come to the meetings
Beathan Vale: OK — we are being summoned to a the snmowmelting — we might need to carry this over a week
Beathan Vale: I move to refer this to a committee for one week only — proposals to be submitted for consideration next week
Bromo Ivory: I do think we have a precedent in the RA meeting in world - and
Bromo Ivory: OK
Patroklus Murakami: how about referring this to committee? so work can carry on in the meantime?
Bromo Ivory: Snow melting time
ThePrincess? Parisi: i want to know what the citizens think about public meetins
Patroklus Murakami: i don't think one week will be enough
MT Lundquist: i support beathans one week committee
Alexicon Kurka: I need your availability data for Government Question Hours meetings
ThePrincess? Parisi: and does it affect chancelors elections
Brian Livingston: This is an unenforcable amendment; secondly I am not worried about peopel nto coming to the meetings. The meetings are required to propose and vote on legislation (quorums are requried for the voting to take place). Plus, if a given member has a terrible attendance record, surely that will re addressed during factiong ratings at the election box
ThePrincess? Parisi: always available
Alexicon Kurka: I have recieved them from some of you
Beathan Vale: well — I will represent my bill next week — so if there are alternatives, one week better be enough
Patroklus Murakami: alex, i think you have them from me
Alexicon Kurka: yes Pat and Sonja
Sonja Strom: Who do dyou need them from, Alex?
ThePrincess? Parisi: just go ahead with it first next week i propose
Sonja Strom: I see.
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, will you take the lead on organising that?
ThePrincess? Parisi: no committee
ThePrincess? Parisi: i ll back down
Beathan Vale: sure — I will talk to people this week — make it less formal than a committee
ThePrincess? Parisi: kk
Patroklus Murakami: i move we adjourn
Brian Livingston: Second
ThePrincess? Parisi: me too
ThePrincess? Parisi: too the DOCKS
Patroklus Murakami: hearing no objection, we stand adjourned. ty everybody
The meeting closed at 14:0 Linden time.
RA Meeting: February 24, 2008
-Code Reorganisation
-Election Rules
-RA Process
-Commerce Commission
-Funding for events
-Funding for cultural activities (e.g. interactive displays in our historic places so that visitors can learn about the CDS 24/7)
-Civil Service Stipends
-Financing any new sim(s) given the LL ban on banking activities
-Any other planned expenditure by the Executive
-Any other financial matters
“In this phase the RA would decide where the new sim(s) would be built in the overall regional masterplan. The RA would commission the New Guild to produce a rough plan for the new sim(s) following broad guidelines laid down by the RA for (i) the rough number of plots (ii) the range of sizes of plots (iii) price and affordability (iv) single/double prim (v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land (vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory.”
Transcript
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
MT Lundquist has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: are we all assembled? thanks for persevering everybody
Sonja Strom: ty
Patroklus Murakami: let’s hope this sim doesn’t start to crash soon too 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ok, i’m calling the meeting to order
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: pls touch the recorder to indicate consent to being recorded
Sonja Strom: i relogged and saw that LL says there are some regions having problems and restarting…
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: a reminder for new people and old…
Patroklus Murakami: the green seats are for anybody (but pls let the RA members sit down first!)
Sonja Strom: yay – the notecards worked…
Beathan Vale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: any CDS citizen may contribute when it is open to do so
Patroklus Murakami: guests from outside the CDS are asked to remain quiet in CDS meetings
Troy McLuhan? has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: *in RA meetings
Patroklus Murakami: unless they’ve been called to contribute of course 🙂
Brian Livingston secretly wonders if miming is permitted, provide no sound is made 😉
Patroklus Murakami: and, to everyone, pls don’t interrupt or talk over the Chair (i.e me) or another RA member when they have the floor
Patroklus Murakami smacks brian on the paw 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: noo not pb
Sonja Strom thinks about brian’s thinking out loud
ThePrincess? Parisi has indicated consent to be recorded.
Beathan Vale: how can we tell when an RA member has the floor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the LRA will say so)
Bromo Ivory thinks Roberts RUles would be good for this
Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks that her own rules would be better 😉
Patroklus Murakami: i will say ‘xxx has the floor’ (as in previous meetings)
Beathan Vale: OK — another meeting run by LRA dictat —
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, unders robert’s rules you’re out of order
Beathan Vale: lol
Beathan Vale: too right
Bromo Ivory: Thank goodness we have Pats rules
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This IS the better way, Beathan!
Patroklus Murakami: that’s not LRA dictat, just basic manners
Patroklus Murakami: anyway, if i may be permitted to chair the meeting…
Patroklus Murakami: first item, reports
Beathan Vale: ah — but there we run into the fact that American “manners” are flat out incompatible with British manners — lol
Sonja Strom: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: “winks”
MT Lundquist: lol
Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: brian, do you have anything ot report on the code reorganisation commission?
Patroklus Murakami: *to
Patroklus Murakami: brian?
Sonja Strom: he appears to be (Busy)
Brian Livingston: The meeting Wednesday didn’t particularly happen unfortunately. In retrospect, a CD-wide Im would’vev helped better announce the start of hte meeting and so on, but we’ll try again this wednesday
Brian Livingston: I am laggign terribly Pat
Patroklus Murakami: ok. let’s take that as your report then 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: i would like to attend brian
MT Lundquist: Can i ask that its at an earlier time Brian
MT Lundquist: ty
Brian Livingston: Wednesday at 6, theres an announcement i nthe events forum 🙂
Sonja Strom: I have some lag too
MT Lundquist: 6pm?
Brian Livingston: Sory, 5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5 PM SLT?
MT Lundquist: thats my midnight
Sonja Strom: 5am would be better for me too 🙂
Brian Livingston: oEarliest I can hol it unfortuantely, as I work until that time unless hrmm,
MT Lundquist: weekend?
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps the forum thread could also be used by those who can’t get to the meeting? i won’t be able to make it that time either
Brian Livingston: I am thinking it may be best to ghold this discussion offline. I think timezones will permanently be an issue here…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ty brian. i think you might be right!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, do *both*….
Brian Livingston: I am open to meeting at other times though in worl or via emil or whatnot
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes gwneth
ThePrincess? Parisi: both and merge the minutes
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Brian Livingston: Just eail me at bri.liv and I’ll figure out something ;0
MT Lundquist: ty
Brian Livingston: err, bri.liv(at)gmail.com
Patroklus Murakami: can we move on to ‘election rules’ and ‘RA process’? beathan, can you report on these?
Beathan Vale: I am still receiving meeting time recommendations — but I am favoring having the meetings in the location where the RA is meeting one hour before the RA meeting and continuing after RA adjoirnment if necessary — I will also have “open” or “drop in” hours (both US and Euro time slots) at my house in CN — my sense is that while this matter is important, it is not immediately urgent as we still have time before the next election needs to be organized — but I know we want work done on this this term — am I right about the sense of the RA?
ThePrincess? Parisi: um.. guild?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Guild meets before the RA, Beathan…
Patroklus Murakami: there’s a clash with teh guild? i think that meets at 10am on Sundays
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they do, yes
Beathan Vale: hmm — OK — how about immediately after then?
ThePrincess? Parisi: better
MT Lundquist: thats ok
Patroklus Murakami: works 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees too 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: and ‘RA process’?
Sonja Strom: absolutely
Beathan Vale: I have continued this proposal one week. I am receiving comments. The proposal current has six components — including two with alternate proposals so far. Anyone who wants to see the current version can IM me.
Patroklus Murakami: ok. MT, could you update us on the work of the commerce commission?
MT Lundquist: we met for the second time yesterday
MT Lundquist: sudane was kind enough to guide us round all the commercial areas
MT Lundquist: i will be producing stats (simple ones) on occupancy and use
MT Lundquist: we will meet next saturday to consider the brain storming ideas from the week before
Patroklus Murakami: ty MT. that seems to be coming along nicely
Patroklus Murakami: Let’s move on to item 2
Patroklus Murakami: Pre-budget discussion
Patroklus Murakami: the idea here is that we give our treasurer sudane some idea of our priorities this term
Patroklus Murakami: so that she can develop a budget for our approval
Sudane Erato: or i would say our Chancellor
Alexicon Kurka: togther with Sudane
Patroklus Murakami: oh, i thought it was the treasurer who did that?
Sudane Erato: the Treasurer is, to my understanding… an official of the exceutive
Patroklus Murakami: ah well, i stand corrected 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Chancellor presents the budget as chair of the exec…
Sudane Erato: emphasize… “to my understanding” 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i’ve suggested a number of sub issues to consider
Patroklus Murakami: let’s take them in order
Alexicon Kurka: but off course works with the Treasurer for preparing the budget
Patroklus Murakami: funding for events. any comments on that budget line?
Alexicon Kurka: I know that in the previous term there has been 250$L per event allocated
Alexicon Kurka: as far as I know from the field, 3-5000 would be more realistic
Patroklus Murakami: well it was per month rather than per event i think…
ThePrincess? Parisi: it depends on th eevent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes for live music/DJ events…
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: but some are free
Alexicon Kurka: we have many event done by our citizens
Alexicon Kurka: on their costs
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Alexicon Kurka: but CDS should support some events seriously
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
MT Lundquist: i agree
Alexicon Kurka: what do the rest thinks please
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we have a fund thqt will aslo accept contributions ..
Patroklus Murakami: what is our current monthly budget?
Brian Livingston: wELL, i AM NOT REALLY SURE WHAT HTE PROPOSAL IS IN TERMS OF A ROUND BUDGET FIGURE?
Sudane Erato: we have no current budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn is always for more events
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Brian Livingston: iS THE 3 – 5K PER EVENT FOR ONLY cdS EVENTS OR ARE WE NOW FULLY PAYING FOR PRIVATE EVENTS AS WELL?
Brian Livingston: Ack, caps
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, so L$0 /monthly!
Sudane Erato: yes… but the money does exist
ThePrincess? Parisi: they should be only for CDS events.. shurly
Brian Livingston: Appologies for the caps folks, miskeyed the key :p
Sonja Strom: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: the bill we passed specified an amount per month
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, it should be put to good use for CDS events…
Alexicon Kurka: maybe have the RA approve some official CDS events, though the list should be open, things happen on the way
ThePrincess? Parisi: so 5 k per month .. ?
Patroklus Murakami: the wiki is, of course, in accessible to find it tho
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes i like that …….alexicon
Patroklus Murakami: i don’t understand what that means alex. what kind of events are you referring to?
Patroklus Murakami: aah, found it. “A sum of $L4 000/month is appropriated to this programme beginning in August 2007 and running through to the end of January 2008.”
ThePrincess? Parisi: regular events like inagural balls? stuff like that
Alexicon Kurka: I think we should have severa events per month going
Alexicon Kurka: we do have the Metanomics with minimum effort
Alexicon Kurka: but we can use more occasions to meet and attract new potential citizens
MT Lundquist: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: and for us to have fun
Alexicon Kurka: I am thinking of chances like the melting or freezing of sims
Patroklus Murakami: what do other RA members who haven’t spoken yet think?
ThePrincess? Parisi: when we have contributed to these ………we never got reimbursed.we just donated the money……
Alexicon Kurka: and there are some art initiatives that deserver to be adopted CDS wide
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes i agree alexicon…..we need a regular event scheudle put out.. monthy maybe.. weekly socials?
ThePrincess? Parisi: and then big events……..
Sonja Strom: So, you are asking that we increase the amount for events from L$4000 to L$5000 per month?
MT Lundquist: i guess some events will low cost some higher
ThePrincess? Parisi: inagural ball, holidays
Patroklus Murakami: hold on, let’s hear from ppl who haven’t spoken yet
Leon Ash: Pat, in general I’m for regular events, providing they are successful. By successful I mean that they are attended
MT Lundquist: 5K seems reasonable
Patroklus Murakami: sonja, the proposal seems to be to increase the funding to 5k
Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
Sonja Strom: I am in favor of that.
ThePrincess? Parisi: and to hvae regular events? determinted by who alexicon?
Alexicon Kurka: the PIO seems to me the central point on that
Patroklus Murakami: just to be clear, i’d like to hear from those RA members who haven’t spoken yet. could those who have pls be quiet a moment?
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, you have yet to express a view
Alexicon Kurka: but we want to have a cometee with the two event managers too
Beathan Vale: I cede my time to ThePrincess?
Patroklus Murakami: LOL!
Sonja Strom: lol
Patroklus Murakami: does that mean you don’t have a view beathan? or just don’t want to express it?
ThePrincess? Parisi: call to order
Patroklus Murakami: (i never had you down as the shy type)
Beathan Vale: neither, I assure you
Patroklus Murakami: well, there seems to be an emerging consensus around 5k per month for events
ThePrincess? Parisi: may i please ask a question?
Patroklus Murakami: one factor we need to keep in mind of course is that it is our citizens’ money we are spending so we must be prudent 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: what is your question theprincess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: may we have an idea of a scheudle of events ahead of time ?
ThePrincess? Parisi: maybe by month
Patroklus Murakami: i think that’s a question for our chancellor 🙂
Alexicon Kurka: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: indeed
Alexicon Kurka: we will have the callender used again
Sudane Erato: yes!
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you
Sudane Erato: we should use the GCalendar
Patroklus Murakami: ok, let’s move on to ‘cultural activities’. i’d like to explain this for a minute or two
Patroklus Murakami: here, we were thinking about somethign that is permanent (or at least lasts for a long time). somethign available 24/7 which woudl tell newcomers about the CDS
ThePrincess? Parisi: huh? like what
Patroklus Murakami: it could involve exhibits in the church or the rathaus or other ‘historic’ buildings in the cDS
Patroklus Murakami: its a bit like the walking tour bill and the proposal to have a sort of hall of fame
Patroklus Murakami: something interactive that ppl can learn from even when ppl are not around
ThePrincess? Parisi: ohh ..like in the bill nuCARE has on the agenda?
MT Lundquist: this sounds very like the last agenda item pat
MT Lundquist: and the tour bill
Patroklus Murakami: well, that’s one idea
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh ok
Patroklus Murakami: what do others think of the general principle?
MT Lundquist: so its a copy really pat then
ThePrincess? Parisi: well since i wrote abill about it with NuCARE i indeed approve
MT Lundquist: just placed first
MT Lundquist: on the agenda
Patroklus Murakami: MT, that’s really unfair
MT Lundquist: oh
MT Lundquist: really
Patroklus Murakami: you shouldn’t be so prickly. i posted this as an idea on the forums over a week ago. there’s no conflict with the nucare proposals
Patroklus Murakami: we’re all arguing for the same thing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye aye
Leon Ash: Yep
Leon Ash: I am sorry everyone, but my time is up. Must go and prepare for tomorrow and then bed 🙂 Night all
ThePrincess? Parisi: night leon
Patroklus Murakami: good night leon
Pip Torok: night leon
Sonja Strom: ok bye leon
MT Lundquist: night leon
Alexicon Kurka: Me and the PIO are thinking of ways to improve the welcome information on central points on all three sims, including a soptlight service on on going cultural activities sounds good to me.
Patroklus Murakami: i assume CSDF and NuCARE reps are in favour of this (we both argued for something similar in the election). do the other reps feel the same way?
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok our bill, yes
Sonja Strom: In general I am in favor – are there differences between the 2 bills?
Brian Livingston: In principal yes
Patroklus Murakami: we’re not on the bill yet sonja
Sonja Strom: ok
Patroklus Murakami: this is the general idea of having a ‘cultural activities’ budget for the kind of things the bill (and the walking tour) envisages
Sonja Strom: yes, I am in favor of that.
Patroklus Murakami: beathan?
ThePrincess? Parisi: well i dont know for the lack of detail
Beathan Vale: me too
Beathan Vale: in principle
ThePrincess? Parisi: well the walking tour is what?
ThePrincess? Parisi: and how does it coincide with a guided tour
ThePrincess? Parisi: are we doubling our efforts
Patroklus Murakami: well, it’s a way of celebrating our achievements and our history
ThePrincess? Parisi: well thats the bill i proposed
Patroklus Murakami: and it is a lasting thing available 24/7
ThePrincess? Parisi: so of course ….that is ok with me
MT Lundquist: I suggest we simple add the walking tour to the guided toru under the guidance of theprincess
Patroklus Murakami: yes. this is about having *more* ideas like that with a budget to fund them
ThePrincess? Parisi: that is part of the guided tour aleready pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: thats fine..
Sonja Strom: that was my understanding too…
ThePrincess? Parisi: there should be a budget item for that sort of thing, yes
Patroklus Murakami: well, what i’m saying is that there is more we could do. the guided tour is a great start. let’s have a fund of 5k /month for the same kind of activities
ThePrincess? Parisi: but not the detail list
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes agreed
Beathan Vale: let’s set this as a priority — and wait for the details
Sonja Strom: could this detail be discussed by the “Guided Tour” committee?
Brian Livingston: I don’t think am onthly amount is appropriate for an item like this as it isn’t really an ongoing expense but largely a one time expenditure for eah segment of hte project
ThePrincess? Parisi: the walking tour has been sonja
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
ThePrincess? Parisi: brian you are correct.. its a set up
ThePrincess? Parisi: not a monthy budget thing
ThePrincess? Parisi: fro those type of things
Patroklus Murakami: how about 30k for projects over the course of six months?
ThePrincess? Parisi: better
Sonja Strom: so this is would be an addition to what has been proposed already by that committee?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Brian has a point indeed…. so, fixed budget for ongoing events/projects?
Patroklus Murakami: yes sonja
Sonja Strom: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hmm 6 times L$ 5k + 30 k
Patroklus Murakami: i see it a spending authority so we can budget for it
ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree pat
Patroklus Murakami: no gwyn, 6 times 5k =30k
Patroklus Murakami: in total for six months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no additional L$ for ongoing projects?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok, sorry
ThePrincess? Parisi: its just a guess and we can ask to vary it if needed … cant it be allocated that way.. either lump to start or ongoing costs… nothing now has that does it
Patroklus Murakami: i’m not sure how we got lost there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I skipped one line, Pat my apologies 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: nm 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to civil service stipends
Patroklus Murakami: these currently stand at 1k per month for RA archivist, SC archivist, PIO and treasurer i think
Patroklus Murakami: (pls correct me if i’m wrong)
ThePrincess? Parisi: each PIO? or just one
Sudane Erato: also land caretaker
Alexicon Kurka: not PIO, event manager
ThePrincess? Parisi: we have three?
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Brian Livingston: each PIO? There’s ,multiple?
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes brian
Patroklus Murakami: how can we have three PIO?
Sudane Erato: I was not aware of multiple
Sonja Strom: I didn’t know that either *g*
Alexicon Kurka: PIO and event manager is a different function
Alexicon Kurka: last term Rose did both
Sudane Erato: yes… i agree with that..
Sudane Erato: they should be separate
MT Lundquist: i agree
Sonja Strom: I think so too, just did not know it had already been done.
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Sudane Erato: but… 3 PIO’s ?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lots of events to manage 😉
Sonja Strom: does that include the Events Manger?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one PIO, two assistant PIOs
Alexicon Kurka: the PIO has a much more central role
Sudane Erato: no… lts of information to publicize 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that too, Sudane 🙂 … and events to announce etc
Sonja Strom: so we have 3 PIOs and an Events Manager?
Alexicon Kurka: why 3 PIOs?
Alexicon Kurka: how did we get there?
Alexicon Kurka: we have one PIO
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, one PIO and at least two people who also announce events 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: did you appoint anyone else?
Gwyneth Llewelyn cheks the group
Patroklus Murakami: well, how many of these are paid a stipend? that’s the key question for us in relation to the budget
Sonja Strom: true…
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: and what are their roles clearly defined?
Sudane Erato: none at the moment… I have been VERY remiss 🙁
Sonja Strom: although I am also curious about this development in general
Sudane Erato: it sounds to me that everyone here asks who are the 3 PIO’s
ThePrincess? Parisi: well Arria is your PIO
Sudane Erato: and no one knows… nor who appointed them
ThePrincess? Parisi: and then who does events alexicon?
Alexicon Kurka: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: didyou appoint two ppl to do events?
Sonja Strom: yes Sudane, and what are their roles…
Alexicon Kurka: and Bells and Cidy are our event managers
Patroklus Murakami: i think it might be helpful alex if you posted an announcement in the Exectuve Announcements sub-forum to say who these appointees are
Alexicon Kurka: mostly hosting events
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Bells and Cindy…. yes
Sonja Strom: good point Pat, well said.
ThePrincess? Parisi: so who does what? cindy does metanomics right?
ThePrincess? Parisi: who gets paid?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: PIO is Arria who gets paid as PIO 😀
Sudane Erato: “who should get paid”
Patroklus Murakami: do we want to vary the rate we pay our civil servants? and do we want to extend/retract the number who receive them?
Alexicon Kurka: the RA has to decide that and approve it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you propose the budget, though, Alex 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: i would say that the PIO gets 1000.. but i want to know what they do..
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok .. oops
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we get a job description for the stipends
Brian Livingston: And how does this all related to nl 4-26, the Public Information Act? It defines the role of the PIO and seems to indiate that there is one person for t role
Sudane Erato: yes Brian
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we have that brian?
ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks
Alexicon Kurka: In the previous budget there was 0L for the PIO, 1000 for the event manager
Brian Livingston: Actually, 4-26 really seems to indicate that the event manager and PIO roles are all part of hte PIO’s responsibilities, not that I am against necessarailly dlegating toan event manager
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Brian: the PIO is the overall coordinator, but doesn’t run the events themselves (too many, and too different!)
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we can return to this when alex has had a chance to prepare a budget proposal?
Alexicon Kurka: I need to hear your ideas on that anyway
ThePrincess? Parisi: and i am more concered actually about the information peice than events
Patroklus Murakami: it’s a bit confusing and i fear we’ll get tied up in this otherwise
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (currently PIO is a civil servant, the Event Managers are outsourced experts 😉 )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … meaning that their payment would come from the 30k
Sudane Erato: actually, “insourced” 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: this is a important position and it is to be more so as we grow
Brian Livingston: err, the 5k?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … while the PIO would have a salary
Sonja Strom: ok, thanks, that helps to clarify this.
ThePrincess? Parisi: NO brian
Patroklus Murakami: well, alex. for what it’s worth i want to keep it to 1k and not expand teh number of civil servants too far
Brian Livingston: the 30 is for cultural displays and so on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (30k term budget, Brian)
Patroklus Murakami: this is a new item brian. we’ve moved on from cultural activities to civil service stipends
Alexicon Kurka: may I ask why does the Chancellor has no stipend?
Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… the question is easy to solve. Are Event Managers civil servants or not? 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: good question
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes gwyneth they are
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Alex, GOOD QUESTION 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: imo
Patroklus Murakami: same reason the LRA and Dean don’t ….
Brian Livingston: I realize that, an Gwyn pretty mucch pose the question that was next
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if they are, Princess… things have to be slightly different
ThePrincess? Parisi: the events person coodrdinates the events …….and the y allocate the pay for ppl that might come in to do them
ThePrincess? Parisi: thats just my opinion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Exec can hire whomever he pleases,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but civil servants are… different
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they have public roles
Alexicon Kurka: so you sugets an event manager per event Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they are able to be ‘questioned’ by the RA
ThePrincess? Parisi: ty gwyen
Alexicon Kurka: no continuity needed?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no ? Alex, I suggest they are simple ‘outsourced’ workers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: paid-per-task
Alexicon Kurka: k
Patroklus Murakami: two minutes folks, then we need to move on
Gwyneth Llewelyn hushes now 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes i am unaware of who does that gwyen
ThePrincess? Parisi: we can talk
Sonja Strom: thank you for your help Gwyn!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (while the PIO, however, is part of the Exec! there are…. mmmh…. special issues regarding the civil service 🙂 )
Gwyneth Llewelyn looks at the wiki
ThePrincess? Parisi: kk
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to the next item – financing our next sim(s) – as this is rather important!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes :))))
MT Lundquist: yes indeed
Alexicon Kurka looks at Sudane
Sudane Erato: ahh
Patroklus Murakami: well, it’s not entirely clear, but it would seem that the LL ban on banking might affect they way we have expanded up until now
Sudane Erato: sorry….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Patroklus Murakami: we have previously offered bonds and paid a rate of interest
Sudane Erato: well… I do have a cooment about this
Patroklus Murakami: it’s not clear we’ll e able to do that in future
Patroklus Murakami: pls do come in sudane. perhaps you could tell us if we *need* to raise funds for a new sim (or sims)
Sudane Erato: a bit of context
Sudane Erato: buying a sim is not an expense…
Sudane Erato: its an investemnt
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: as you know,…. when we buy a sim
Sudane Erato: we pay out money
Sudane Erato: and we very soon get it all back in land purchases
Sudane Erato: at that point we still have the sim as part of our community
Sudane Erato: but the money has all flowed back tp us
Sudane Erato: therefore, since buying a sim is not an expense
Sudane Erato: it is something that we do from our available cash
Sudane Erato: at the beginning, we did not have enough available cash to buy a sim
Sudane Erato: so we had to borrow
Sudane Erato: I would suggest that so long as we do not draw down our reservevs by unwise budgets, where we have expenses greater than out income
Sudane Erato: that we simply buy the sims from our cash
Sudane Erato: and pay it back
Sudane Erato: no need for loans and interest
Sudane Erato: only, that we must adjust our purchasing rate
MT Lundquist: so this sounds like a green light on the financing of the new sim
Sudane Erato: to match the funds that we have
Patroklus Murakami: so, how many sims can we buy with our current cash ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: can I just ask Sudane when we would have funds for the next sim?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (oh exactly, Pat)
Sudane Erato: and we have, at the moment… a bit less that US$5000
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow!
ThePrincess? Parisi: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: OMG
Alexicon Kurka: !
ThePrincess? Parisi: one sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I had NO idea
Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Beathan Vale: Woot!
ThePrincess? Parisi: yay!!
Sudane Erato: yes, we can easily buy one sim
Patroklus Murakami: that’s pretty healthy. how much does a sim cost now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn faints
Sudane Erato: i would n ot buy 2
Sudane Erato: 1675 US$
Salzie Sachertorte: But does every citizen want to?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
MT Lundquist: yes moving ahead rapidly one by one seems sensible
ThePrincess? Parisi: what salzie?
Patroklus Murakami: let’s handle all those isues later
ThePrincess? Parisi: want to what
Patroklus Murakami: no, stop
Patroklus Murakami: let’s not disappear down a rabbit hole
ThePrincess? Parisi: salzie cannot talk?
Patroklus Murakami: we’re discussing the financing of new sim(s)
Patroklus Murakami: we’re not discussing the merits/demerits of doing so
Patroklus Murakami: this agenda item is about teh budget it is *not* about buying a new sim (or not)
Salzie Sachertorte: well, I can see where the average citizen stands
Salzie Sachertorte: good day
Patroklus Murakami: that’s under item 3
Patroklus Murakami: let’s complete this agenda item them move on
Patroklus Murakami: alexicon, are there any other items of planned expenditure you would like to raise with us?
Alexicon Kurka: yes
Patroklus Murakami: in order to get a steer before planning a budget proposal?
Alexicon Kurka: I want to profesionalise the basis of our website
Alexicon Kurka: and allocate a serious ammount for the hosting
Alexicon Kurka: base the development still on volunteers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes
Alexicon Kurka: as part of our activities happen on the website
Alexicon Kurka: a serious ammount of ‘living’ on CDS is using the website
Patroklus Murakami: i agree with what you’re saying alex 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, i do too
MT Lundquist: this seems sensible
Patroklus Murakami: but i wonder what a ‘serious amount’ might be 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees too, *except* with the monthly cost that I’m sure Alex will propose 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we really afford this?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: depends on ‘ho mujch’
Alexicon Kurka: I think that in the long termine, somthing like the monthly fee for a whole sim is very realistic
Alexicon Kurka: but for now
Alexicon Kurka: I was thinking of something like 180K for the 6 months
Alexicon Kurka: $L
Patroklus Murakami: what’s that in US$
ThePrincess? Parisi: so , may i ask for calarification on my understanding from mizou, who has been workign on this with you and arria correct?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: US$100
ThePrincess? Parisi: we can get this service free? right. but the quality is not as good?
Alexicon Kurka: per month Gwyn
ThePrincess? Parisi: hosting can be done free?
ThePrincess? Parisi: like now
ThePrincess? Parisi: but you want better quality hosting
Sudane Erato: nothing is free
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no, but we can get it for US$10/month 😉
Sudane Erato: someone must pay for it
Alexicon Kurka: yes the Princess
ThePrincess? Parisi: hmm.. i thought mizou….well ten dollar s a month now?
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Alexicon Kurka: we need more than a small business facility, as we expand and have multiple website
ThePrincess? Parisi: so now we spend 10 dollars a month? and we need more quality? what will we get ? why is it better to pay ? i dont unerstand the difference
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s ‘being generously paid for’ outside the budget right now, Princess
Symo Kurka: neither do i
ThePrincess? Parisi: im not saying we dont need to do this, i just want to know what we get
Alexicon Kurka: to keep things managable
Alexicon Kurka: we need a serious content management basis
Sonja Strom: $100 US over a 6-month period is not much more than $10/month.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no… US$600 per term
Patroklus Murakami: the current websites are provided for the love of it by volunteers with spare/ paid-for capacity
Alexicon Kurka: I am thinking of more like 100$ per month
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh ok
Sonja Strom: ok, thanks for the clarification.
Patroklus Murakami: well, we need to cut our cloth according to our income. i feel 100$/month is out of our range
Sudane Erato: i think we should wait to see the proposed budget
Sudane Erato: before what we decide is “in our range”
MT Lundquist: i agree with Sudane
ThePrincess? Parisi: is it for what ppl do ? or server space?
MT Lundquist: i would like to see a proposal
Sonja Strom: good question, Princess.
Sudane Erato: i think the basis for what Alex proposes is very strong
Sudane Erato: and we only have to match it with the money we have
Patroklus Murakami: well, 100$ spent on this is 100$ less for other things. i think we can give a steer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: server space ? work would be volunteer for now
Patroklus Murakami: i’d be more comfortable with a proposal in the 10-50$/month range
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Patroklus Murakami: that’s where i am right now
Sonja Strom: really, wow, so much for server space?
ThePrincess? Parisi: well i just also want to know why its better the paid space, vs free
Sonja Strom: is that a normal amount for it?
Alexicon Kurka: for corporate CMS it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just a technical comment… for US$10/mo we can get server space with 99% uptime. For US$100/mo, probably 99.7%. For US$1000/mo, 99.99%
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets get a proposal from alexicon, pat?
Sonja Strom: Thank you Gwyneth.
Patroklus Murakami: sure. i’m happy to wait for a proposal but its’ surely helpful for alex to know what RA members’ boundaries are – 100$/month is too much in my opinion. but I’m still willing to listen to a good business case
ThePrincess? Parisi: not mine till i know what we get
MT Lundquist: well i’m happy to see a proposal
ThePrincess? Parisi: im keeping an open mind
MT Lundquist: up to $100 month
MT Lundquist: if the spend is justifiable
Alexicon Kurka: The idea is to uncouple the hosting form the volunteerely sfeer to assure continuity
MT Lundquist: hence the proposal
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on, we need to see the proposal to make progress on this
Patroklus Murakami: any other financial matters we need to cover before the budget is prepared?
Sonja Strom: I would want to know where we are at now, and why we would want to make this change. Also a few options would be nice – perhaps some different combinations as possibilities?
MT Lundquist: i support sonjas points
ThePrincess? Parisi: me too
Sonja Strom: However, I am not against it – just need more information.
Patroklus Murakami: ok. let’s end that item then
Sonja Strom: ok
Patroklus Murakami: Now, we have come to the end of our allotted time and we still have some key items to cover.
Alexicon Kurka: thanks for the input anyway
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we cover item 3 on the forums and try to cover chancellor’s questions in twenty minutes
Sonja Strom: thanks for your work and thoughts, Alex.
Patroklus Murakami: are RA members, and alex, happy to carry on for twenty minutes?
Sonja Strom: I am.
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am
Alexicon Kurka: yes I am here
Beathan Vale: sure
MT Lundquist: yes
Patroklus Murakami: ok, with the understanding that ppl may have to disappear let’s have our first chancellor’s questions of this term!
Brian Livingston: sur
Patroklus Murakami: who would like to begin the grilling?
Sonja Strom: Is there anything you need from us?
Alexicon Kurka: I have recieved too little availability chart fot teh questioning hours
Sonja Strom: who do you need yet to hear from?
ThePrincess? Parisi: MT and I are avialble any time you request
Patroklus Murakami: could everyone give alex their availability if they haven’t done already?
Alexicon Kurka: I have the feeling that the time slots after the RA are valuable
Alexicon Kurka: and can be wisely allocated for questioning the Chancellor and the Government
Sonja Strom: My preference is to keep the Open Public Discussion differentiated from the RA meetings.
Patroklus Murakami: alex, i suggest you just set a time with the information you have from some of us. it’s important that we get these started again for the purposes of open government
Sonja Strom: We could have them scheduled on the same day, but with at least someting of a break in-between.
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes how about after metanomics
ThePrincess? Parisi: sundays are grueling already
ThePrincess? Parisi: for me
Patroklus Murakami: have the SC given you their availability too?
ThePrincess? Parisi: but i will be open and do it if thats when other ppl
Sonja Strom: I do think we can have some public discussion in the RA meetings also, but that shoule not be the same as the scheduled time for it.
Alexicon Kurka: metanomics is a steady part of my schedule, too, but what about the rest?
Brian Livingston: Sundays are pretty rough but weekdays I am aailable after 4:30 PM althoguh I have the odd feeling that time works for none but me
Patroklus Murakami: i’m in bed by 4pm SL time most weekdays!
ThePrincess? Parisi: princesses dont require sleep
Sonja Strom: yes, that is 1:am in central Europe.
Alexicon Kurka: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: before RA? is guild
Patroklus Murakami: it’s hellishly difficult to get everybody there. i think you just have to do you best and schedule them for us and euro friendly hours at different times
Sonja Strom: how is that for you, Alex?
ThePrincess? Parisi: before guild?
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we do two
Patroklus Murakami: *your
Alexicon Kurka: what do you think of the mondays?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i like it
Patroklus Murakami: it helps if ppl actually say clearly when they can come and when they cant though
Alexicon Kurka: after Metanomics
Sonja Strom: Brian, could you meet mornings?
MT Lundquist: yes works for me
Patroklus Murakami: after metanomics works reasonably well for me too
ThePrincess? Parisi: im gongi to make it work when ever
Brian Livingston: Metanomics is in the middle of my work day
Patroklus Murakami: i suggest that we don’t try to fix a time here, we’ll be here all day!
Sonja Strom: probably I could do after metanomics – it is in the middle of my workday also, and I am already spending that time in SL.
Brian Livingston: So be forewarned that I will virtualyl never be able to make the question hour
Sonja Strom: But maybe I could do it.
Sonja Strom: Mornings in SL is the best time for me.
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok ….saturdays?
Alexicon Kurka: Brina: once a month?
Beathan Vale: I agree == let’s not try to schedul this here
Sonja Strom: true Pat – Alexicon, do you still need to hear times from anyone?
Beathan Vale: I can’t commit to a time — not with my calendar
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to a new question. if you haven’t given alex your availability, pls IM him now
ThePrincess? Parisi: do we have a official calender on teh website
Alexicon Kurka: we need someone from the SC right?
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Patroklus Murakami coughs
Patroklus Murakami: order!
Sonja Strom: I would like to find out who is not giving him their times…
Patroklus Murakami: a new question for alexicon please?
Patroklus Murakami: i have one
Patroklus Murakami: could you let us know how the project to build a single CDS web portal is going?
Alexicon Kurka: We have a Website cometee
Patroklus Murakami: i know we just touched on budgeting but i understood it drew in quite a few ppl
Alexicon Kurka: Arria Mizou and me are the memebrs now
Alexicon Kurka: we have set up the general directions in the first meeting
Alexicon Kurka: Mizou will be working on 3 proposals on the design
Alexicon Kurka: Arria has made a scetch of the content
Alexicon Kurka: and I am working on a chart myself
Alexicon Kurka: there are four more citizens that want to work with us as volunteers
Patroklus Murakami: is this group invite-only? or can anyone participate?
Alexicon Kurka: we will form a content group
Alexicon Kurka: this group holds open meetings, however we try to keep it smaal
Alexicon Kurka: in order to proceed quickly
Alexicon Kurka: there has been ideas to involve the citizens
Alexicon Kurka: we will hold a survey on that
Patroklus Murakami: has it been publicised? i don’t think i’ve seen anything but i might have missed a forum post or a group notice
Sonja Strom: me either…
Alexicon Kurka: there is not an open discussion on the forums
Alexicon Kurka: we work with emails
ThePrincess? Parisi: would you mind starting one ?
Sonja Strom: how do citizens find out about this group?
Alexicon Kurka: I would rather proceed getting input in the form of a survey myself
Patroklus Murakami: hmm. i worry that you might be missing out on some of the talented ppl in the CDS who could provide input
Sonja Strom: If I am not mistaken, there was a survey made of what the citizens would like to have on the web pages made not long ago.
Patroklus Murakami: i think it would be better if teh group’s activities were more open
Sonja Strom: I remember Jon asking for input.
Patroklus Murakami: yes sonja. there’s a lot of work already been done on this. it would be a shame to repeat it
Alexicon Kurka: well the next meeting will be at the 5th of March on the monastery.
Alexicon Kurka: as I had another survey to arrange from the RA, the website will be next
Patroklus Murakami: any other questions?
Alexicon Kurka: we are preparing the direct TP survey first
Sonja Strom: yes, that is also one where a survey was already made.
Sonja Strom: more might be helpful…
ThePrincess? Parisi: no there is a follow up one sonja
ThePrincess? Parisi: that was requestied six months after the bill passed
ThePrincess? Parisi: to see the effects
Sonja Strom: ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think he means that
Patroklus Murakami: yes, the survey on direct tp in colonia nova
Alexicon Kurka: yes
Sonja Strom: ok, that seems like a good idea.
Patroklus Murakami: if there are no other questions i move we adjourn. we have used up our additional time
Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody for being here!
Patroklus Murakami: yes, it was a struggle today!
Sonja Strom: I second your move.
Patroklus Murakami: hearing no objections to adjournment, we are adjourned
Patroklus Murakami: thank you everybody
The meeting closed at 14:24 Linden time.RA Meeting: March 02, 2008
-Commerce Commission
-Code Reorganisation
-Election Rules
-RA Process
“In this phase the RA would decide where the new sim(s) would be built in the overall regional masterplan. The RA would commission the New Guild to produce a rough plan for the new sim(s) following broad guidelines laid down by the RA for (i) the rough number of plots (ii) the range of sizes of plots (iii) price and affordability (iv) single/double prim (v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land (vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre (vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory.”
Transcript
Those present:
Patroklus Murakami is in the chair.
MT Lundquist: everythings the wrong size
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we need to set up a new pub in NFS, and call it “The Koala and The Lion” 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: im amazed we dont have tiny chairs
MT Lundquist: yes great idea
ThePrincess? Parisi: seems the ADA requires it
Patroklus Murakami: well, since i’m being painted as an ogre i thought i might as well look the part 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: well you were on your way to green.. i thought you just ate something bad
ThePrincess? Parisi: as a fashion tip
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: id say you clash with the upholstrey
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft
Beathan Vale: terrible lag problems
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll live with that
MT Lundquist has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: sonja shd be here soon
ThePrincess? Parisi: and there is symo
ThePrincess? Parisi: welcome
Symo Kurka: ty hi all
ThePrincess? Parisi: what kind of ogre are you ?
MT Lundquist: hi symo
Symo Kurka: hello MT
Patroklus Murakami: a japanese devil or ‘oni’ 🙂
MT Lundquist: neat
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh
Patroklus Murakami: great, we’re all here now
MT Lundquist: hi sonja
Sonja Strom: hi everybody
Patroklus Murakami: let’s begin. pls touch the recorder etc etc to show you don’t mind being chatlogged
Symo Kurka has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jon Seattle has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: there is one change to the agenda from the draft i published yesterday
Troy McLuhan? has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: any other buisness to the end?
ThePrincess? Parisi: did you forget it
Patroklus Murakami: i added in a report on the guided tour committee as i don’t think we have had one for a while
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: i put it at teh end of the reports so theprincess has time to gather her thoughts
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i’ve had no other comments on the draft agenda i published yesterday so i assume we’re okay with it?
MT Lundquist: k
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom: i am
Beathan Vale: Pat — I have not had a chance to read anything becuase of the lag — give me a sec
ThePrincess? Parisi: i thought i needed this maybe
Patroklus Murakami: it was published on the forums yesterday. i sent you a link by email beathan (and to all RA members)
Leon Ash has indicated consent to be recorded.
ThePrincess? Parisi: we appreciate that so much pat
Beathan Vale: OK — I’m fine with the agenda under the old rules
Patroklus Murakami: okay, first of all reports. MT could you report on the commerce commission?
MT Lundquist: yes of course
MT Lundquist: we met for the third time yesterday
MT Lundquist: we looked at the items from the 2 previous sessions
MT Lundquist: namely the bainstorming output
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
MT Lundquist: and the walkround of the NFS and CN commercial districts
MT Lundquist: unfortunately there were only a few of us at the meeting yesterday – i know its hard to make all the commitments in sl and CDS
MT Lundquist: however we did take each item of the agenda as published on the forum
MT Lundquist: and had written input from from Jamie P
MT Lundquist: i will be publishing the minutes from the meeting early this week
MT Lundquist: and collecting the views expressed into a forum post for further comment
MT Lundquist: i do hope that people who are interested will be able to comment
MT Lundquist: as i fell we are getting closer to concrete propsals to bring to the RA
MT Lundquist: feel
Patroklus Murakami: thank you MT:) i hope that more ppl will join in on the forums or in the inworld meetings
MT Lundquist: ty
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Saturdays… such a bad day for me 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
MT Lundquist: sorry gwyn
Patroklus Murakami: brian, could you fill us in on code reorganisation?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that’s ok, MT, it’s all my fault really)
Brian Livingston: Sure. This past meetign got postponed again (sorry folks) due to unexpected illness.However, I did post in the forum two new posts…
Brian Livingston: One of which is at: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1633
Brian Livingston: Which is a discussion post for those itnerested in Code Reorganization, as I realize tryign to get everyone in one place at the same time is close to impossible
Brian Livingston: I would certianly request and encourage anyoen with any thoughts regardign this process to please post them there.
Patroklus Murakami: i think it’s a miracle we’re ever online at the same time brian 🙂 i hope to help you with this but i’m finding it hard to find the time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: if there is a meeting please let me know becuse i would go
Brian Livingston: Second Post was a request for meetign times for those itnerested so I can see if there is some way to find a suitable meeting point
Patroklus Murakami needs a way to know when brian is finished typing….
Sonja Strom: heehee
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Brian Livingston: Other than that, I will plan on beign in world this Wednesday at 5 PM, provided something heavy doesn’t fall on me
Cindy Ecksol suggests “How about ‘over’?”
Brian Livingston: And on that note, Thank you Chair 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re so practical, CIndy 😉
Patroklus Murakami: ty brian!
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, could you cover election rules and RA process?
Beathan Vale: our inaugural meeting is today after the RA – I ask a interested persons to stay — in light of Jon’s comments on the forum, I particularly want members of the CSDF to stay — thank you LRA, that is all
Beathan Vale: on the process bill
Beathan Vale: I have received an incorporated many comments on the bil
Beathan Vale: including Pat’s proposed meeting procedures (alt 4)
Beathan Vale: however, i not that Pat has proposd substnatial additiona changes which I did not see unti this morning
ThePrincess? Parisi: hello valus
Valus Valiant: hello everibody
Valus Valiant: (slow rezzing)
Beathan Vale: I will be happy to explain each of the sections of my bill — man of which were proposed by others and some of which I oppose — but I will explain the reasons for the proposals as best I understand them
Leon Ash: Hi Valus
Patroklus Murakami: hi valus, pls take a seat 🙂
Beathan Vale: that is all by way of report rather than debate
Patroklus Murakami: ty beathan
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ty, I hope to be around for a bit afterwards too!
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, could you fill us in on progress on the guided tour?
ThePrincess? Parisi: Valus is a new resident of AM with the greatest ohouse .. welcome valus
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes indeed pat thank you very much
ThePrincess? Parisi: I am so gald you asked finally for a report sir, becuase i have needed to talk to you all and get some help / input
ThePrincess? Parisi: i wish i had more notice, but here it is
ThePrincess? Parisi: the guided tour committee met first to get an idea of the type of vehicle it would use and we went to several different ones and experiemented.. we decided that we needed to still look at some..
ThePrincess? Parisi: Symo built a wonderful vehicle for the tour that we are going to incorporate
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am waiting for points of interest from some volunteers.
ThePrincess? Parisi: Mizou, who is not here is in the process of writing a history of CDS that will a very critical and wonderful part of what the text will be if th eitem had been on the agenda i would have had her write a thing for us.
ThePrincess? Parisi: .. starting at NFS. She has met with Sudane and this is in process..
Beathan Vale: I think that you should use a “Duck” — WWII era amphibious personal carrier — they are cool
ThePrincess? Parisi: what kind of duck?
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: duck duck goose for agenda items?
ThePrincess? Parisi: 1/ Points of interest of the tour 2/ the route 3/the vehicle to be used and
Cindy Ecksol thinks a duck is a great idea…
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok these things are what we have to determine
ThePrincess? Parisi: and these are what we have done already
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess, it would be nice if Mizou could also update http://slhistory.org, where some of the past history of the CDS was *started* (Caledon updates that wiki quite often!)
ThePrincess? Parisi: we will use symos vehicle and another smaller one as well we will have text that includes a full history of CDS we will engage a walking peice to the tour we will start at both CN and NFS the projected date to be installed is now.. april first.
ThePrincess? Parisi: im not done gwyneth, di dyu ask pat if you can talk hun?
Beathan Vale: http://www.ridetheducksofseattle.com/
ThePrincess? Parisi: the next meeting is wednesday at two sl time at CN . we will determine finally the points for the tour.. as the person who said they wanted to do this has not givent hat to me yet.
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok what?
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh mizou has done that gwyen
ThePrincess? Parisi: pat can i answer gywenteh
ThePrincess? Parisi: mizou has researched a lot of things for this, including the wiki.. if the item had been on the original agenda.. i woul d have a dtetailed report from mizou for us
ThePrincess? Parisi: did i crash
Sonja Strom: no
ThePrincess? Parisi: symo made a gorgeous vehicle for us
ThePrincess? Parisi: a volunteer who is not NUCARE
Patroklus Murakami: are you going to post something on the forums with the plans’ so far?
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes i can pat thank you
Patroklus Murakami: it would be good to see what has been planned so that more ppl can provide input
ThePrincess? Parisi: i did
Patroklus Murakami: i’m really excited to see how this works out, it should be good
ThePrincess? Parisi: and i got no input from the post
ThePrincess? Parisi: but i can do it again i guess
ThePrincess? Parisi: some ppl volunteered ..
ThePrincess? Parisi: symo ..
ThePrincess? Parisi: is he still here?
Gwyneth Llewelyn looks around….
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh he went.. i was gonna ask for his vehicle picture
ThePrincess? Parisi: what other advice do you have
Patroklus Murakami: have you worked out where the key points of the tour will be?
ThePrincess? Parisi: that is a thing i asked volunteers for .. and some promised, but i didnt get it.. i just wrote that on my talk pat
Sonja Strom: yes, she did say that a little bit ago.
Sonja Strom: thePrincess, which post are you talking about? Probably I have seen it, but I am not sure which one your mean.
ThePrincess? Parisi: so if i just pick them.. and post them.. i am sure ppl will then give the input about what is worng with it.. but is that a bad way to do that
Patroklus Murakami: okay, an update on progress when you have somethign substantial would be really useful. i think ppl will get more involved when they see the shape of it coming together
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have asked in the committee meetings and also i have posted.. i thought we posted it
ThePrincess? Parisi: do you think i dont have anything substatial yet? or should i post already
Sonja Strom: I just looked at the Forum again, and I don’t see what it is you seem to be talking about.
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok let me look
ThePrincess? Parisi: pat is it substantial yet?
Patroklus Murakami: i think you’re probably best placed to judge that theprincess since you’re directly involved
Patroklus Murakami: but let’s move on
Sonja Strom: Welcome Justice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Justice 😀
ThePrincess? Parisi: hi justice
Justice Soothsayer: hi
Jon Seattle: Hi Justice 🙂
Leon Ash: Hi Justice
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move on to item 2 expansion parameters discussion
Valus Valiant: just a question: will be the vehicle only for a NFS tour? or for AM and CN too?
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami: i think it’s CDS wide valus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let’s start with one of them… and then make it CDS-wide
Patroklus Murakami: but let’s move on
Valus Valiant: so it must fit for he three sims
Valus Valiant: ok
Sonja Strom: right
Brian Livingston: Three + future
Patroklus Murakami: this item is held over from last week
Patroklus Murakami: there’s a thread on the forums to kick start the discussion
Moon Adamant listens
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll post a link to it in a minute
Patroklus Murakami: here’s a link to the regional masterplan http://neufreistadt.info/images/Masterplan/masterplan_topography_copy.jpg
Valus Valiant: sorry, but I’m seldom here, so it’s a little hard for me to follow the topics
Patroklus Murakami: forum discussion is here http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1628
Patroklus Murakami: I suggest we take the questions we need to answer in order but first i have a handling issue i’d like to raise with the RA
Patroklus Murakami: we have a lot on the agenda today so…
Sonja Strom: it’s ok – there is a lot to follow Valus. just have fun with it. If you want more information about what is happening it is usually good to follow recent posts in the CDS forum.
Patroklus Murakami: we could keep going on this issue for as long as possible to make progress
Patroklus Murakami: but that risks being the only topic we discuss
Sonja Strom: true Pat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then we would have people complaining about the lack of issues being addressed at the RA today 😉
Patroklus Murakami: or we could limit the discussion to 30 mins so we have time for the other agenda items too
Sonja Strom: hehee
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to see RA members views
Beathan Vale: that is a good idea
Patroklus Murakami: i) carry on til we finish or
Patroklus Murakami: ii) limit this item to 30 mins
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we decide after ten minutes
Beathan Vale: 30 minutes — this is best a forum discussion rather than an RA iscussion anyway
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets not say ahead of time
ThePrincess? Parisi: thats my vuew
ThePrincess? Parisi: hello is anyone in open
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Sonja Strom: I agree- talk for 10 minutes and see how much detail we get into, then decide how important it is to us to continue talking about it here.
Brian Livingston: It seems that if we have to pcik up agin partway through, it’s going to simply reopen any decisions we had made in this session. Hmm
Patroklus Murakami: other views?
Sonja Strom: Brian, we could move those discussions to the Forum.
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you sonjaits 12 45 .. go
Sonja Strom: We could agree to continue talking about the detail in the Forum.
Patroklus Murakami: leon and MT have not yet spoken
MT Lundquist: lets start
MT Lundquist: i agree with sonja
ThePrincess? Parisi: what is the frist issue to talk about
Leon Ash: I’d prefer to keep the time allocated to this discussion limited.
Cindy Ecksol: me thinks it’s about time the clock was started….
Leon Ash: If we allocsate a maximum of 30 minutes that is fine by me
Patroklus Murakami: well, it seems the majority wish to press on for ten minutes and then reassess so let’s begin
Patroklus Murakami: first question is: should we exand? if so, by how many sims and where?
ThePrincess? Parisi: its 1247\
Beathan Vale: my views are on the forums
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes and one frist
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes we expand.. and we need to do one at a time..
ThePrincess? Parisi: so do one then anohter
Sonja Strom: I think it would be best to expand near CN first.
ThePrincess? Parisi: and reassess each one at a time
Sonja Strom: and I agree with ThePrincess? about having one new sim at a time.
Sonja Strom: Is there any reason to buy two at once?
Beathan Vale: Iwant one high density residential and one commercial sim (or maybe commercial/tenement)
Cindy Ecksol thinks we don’t have the human resources to do two at a time
ThePrincess? Parisi: so the high density residential sims first
ThePrincess? Parisi: is that right
Sonja Strom thinks Cindy is right
ThePrincess? Parisi: so next item.. we said… yes we build and we build one
Beathan Vale: true – but we can plan two now — then we will always have one planned so we can move onto the next one without downtime
Sonja Strom: I would prefere more residential first
MT Lundquist: i like the idea of sequential development
Gwyneth Llewelyn kicks Beathan
Patroklus Murakami: hold on, we haven’t decided that yet
MT Lundquist: and residential first
MT Lundquist: so that CDS grows its citzen base
Moon Adamant: sorry, weren’t we discussing if we were going to expand first of all?
Beathan Vale: I think that we should plan two, build one, then plan a third while builind the second, so we have an efficient process
Leon Ash: 1 sim at a time is preferable and definately residential for me 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan would it slow us down if we plan two
ThePrincess? Parisi: we all do moon its moot its on our manifestos
MT Lundquist: i agree with beathan
MT Lundquist: that seems sensible
Patroklus Murakami: is it really that hard to do two at once? surely it depends on the design?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this time it’s for population growth and not territory?
Moon Adamant: welll, the LRA has made taht question
ThePrincess? Parisi: we have empty commerical space and open space now
Cindy Ecksol thinks we could plan two if they were adjoining and the concept were the same, but build one at a time
ThePrincess? Parisi: why build that ?
Moon Adamant: so he should get an answer, right?
Sonja Strom: Moon, I think we have talked about it enough that the RA has consensus on adding at least one new sim.
ThePrincess? Parisi: the budget sudane said last week was that we can do ONE
Patroklus Murakami: is everyone in favour of expansion? i know some citizens are not
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets vote on that now pat
Beathan Vale: yes — we can build one — but we canplan 2
ThePrincess? Parisi: i make a motion we vote to whether or not expand or not
Beathan Vale: then we won’t have downtime planning if we have the deire and resources to move forward with additional explansion
Beathan Vale: second
Sonja Strom: I have consulted with the DPU membership, and every member wanted a new sim.
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, pls allow me to chair the meeting
ThePrincess? Parisi: so does Nucares sonja
ThePrincess? Parisi: i cannot make motions? hmm?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am sorry i thought i can
ThePrincess? Parisi: you have a motion on the table pat
Patroklus Murakami: brb phone
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
Sonja Strom: lol
MT Lundquist: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Sonja Strom: do gargoyles have phones now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah well…
Cindy Ecksol wonders if the meeting gets extended by the time the LRA spends on the phone during the meeting…
Brian Livingston: I always pictured them as more foa text messaging species
Justice Soothsayer: must be the batphone
Sonja Strom: there goes our ten minutes!
Beathan Vale: we definitely need a set of rules that alows motions from the floor rather than have the entire meetings, right down to motions, governed and determined by the LRA – that is what i ca “autocratic”
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh the bat phone
Sonja Strom: Justice *lol*
ThePrincess? Parisi: i thought we could, its the first i ever even did..
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am shy
ThePrincess? Parisi: i guess he liked me better silent and beautiful
Patroklus Murakami: sorry bout that
Patroklus Murakami: scrolling back…
ThePrincess? Parisi: three mintues.. dont do it
ThePrincess? Parisi: dont read back
Leon Ash: I never imagined you as shy ThePrincess?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am in rl leon
Sonja Strom: heehee me either
ThePrincess? Parisi: and i was last term .. no
ThePrincess? Parisi: 😉
Sonja Strom: it won’t take him long to read
Leon Ash: The first time I met you in a meeting you wanted to spank someone? Can’t remember how and you had the ruler out already? :-))
Patroklus Murakami: right
ThePrincess? Parisi: well gwyneth has a sword leon
Patroklus Murakami: i take the sense of the RA that the consensus is to expand by one sim?
ThePrincess? Parisi: sword trumps ruler
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes pat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Obviously any RA member (or even any citizen) can submit a bill for a vote, but it’s up to the LRA to accept to put it into the agenda
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft Princess
MT Lundquist: yes
MT Lundquist: expand one at a time
Sonja Strom: Maybe we could write up what we want as a specific bill, and then pass that.
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think our ten minutes are up.
Patroklus Murakami: can i just press you on that though?
Patroklus Murakami: what if there’s enough demand for two?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Market analysis!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: and what if we had the resources to develop both at the same time?
ThePrincess? Parisi: then we build another one
ThePrincess? Parisi: after the one we build fills up
Patroklus Murakami: why wouldn’t we do that?
Sonja Strom: Then we finish one and begin the 2nd right away!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay for more sims 😀
ThePrincess? Parisi: there is no market ananlysis that is accurate
ThePrincess? Parisi: any thing can happen ask beathan
Leon Ash: brb
Cindy Ecksol thinks this is all pretty self-evident
Patroklus Murakami: isn’t that more work though? one and then another?
ThePrincess? Parisi: you cannot find out what the future is
Sonja Strom: Is there any reason why creating 2 at once is better?
Moon Adamant: well, could a market analysis be done?
Brian Livingston: We don’t have the resources just yet for 2, if I recall Sudane’s budget discussion…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, well, but you can establish trends 😉
Beathan Vale: yes — but planning is cheap
ThePrincess? Parisi: i think a market analysis is a waste of resources
Patroklus Murakami: oh we do brian 🙂
MT Lundquist: yes sudane spelled it out
Beathan Vale: plan 2 — build 1
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes beathean..
Beathan Vale: in fact, we can decide which of the 2 to buid after they are planned
Patroklus Murakami: indeed beathan. we lose nothing by planning two
ThePrincess? Parisi: do we have two sims with the same sims or not
ThePrincess? Parisi: the guild cannot go forward til they know which one
Patroklus Murakami: even if we end up only being cautious and going for one more
Cindy Ecksol wonders if those who are advocating two are thinking “same theme” or “different themes”
MT Lundquist: i would want to see residential first
ThePrincess? Parisi: we cannot plan two it will only slow us down
Beathan Vale: I want to see expandd residences — but the Commerce Committee might trump that if it determines that immediately commercial expansion and centralization is needed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: good question, Cindy!
ThePrincess? Parisi: MOON IS IT TRUE THE GUILD CANNOT GO FORWARD WITH OUT KNOWING THE THEME?
MT Lundquist: we need more citizens if \CDS is to thrive
Moon Adamant: to answer Princess
Sonja Strom: I think we should take this conversation outside of this room and moment. We can discuss these things in the Forum and so on – – work on creating a detailed document we can pass, and then vote on that.
Moon Adamant: and if you will excuse me
Patroklus Murakami: oh i’m thinking different themes. i’d like to expand NFS and CN by one sim each
ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree pat
Beathan Vale: I agree with Pat
Moon Adamant: the Guild can’t do a thing with the discussion as it is at this moment
Sonja Strom: Right
Moon Adamant: we will need organized info
Patroklus Murakami: sonja, i think this is part of the discussion though
Beathan Vale: I agree with Moon too
Moon Adamant: organized specs
ThePrincess? Parisi: MOON, DOES THE GUILD NEED A THEME TO MOVE FORWARD
Cindy Ecksol thinks that planning is the hard part — should spend at least 4 times as much time planning as building.
Moon Adamant: it depends
Moon Adamant: you tell me that 🙂
Sonja Strom: Of course it is part of the discussion, but to reach a resolution will take time.
ThePrincess? Parisi: I MOVE MOON HAS THE FLOOR.. WHAT DOES THE GUILD NEED TO MOVE FORWARD
Beathan Vale: TP– the Guid needs more than that — a theme, plus specifications
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess, could you turn caps off?
ThePrincess? Parisi: may moon tell us
ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry
Beathan Vale: lot sizes — densities — type of lots
Moon Adamant: The Guild needs to know
Moon Adamant: first of all, which sim on the grid to develop – that choice may imply or may cause to imply also teh choice of theme
Sonja Strom: Moon, would you rather have us talk with you now, or talk with each other and arrive at some consensus to give you?
Moon Adamant: then the Guild needs to know things like min-max number of residents, min-max size of plots… it can also be a political discussion to say how much of each
Moon Adamant: it surely became so at last time
Moon Adamant: then things like what is the percentage of public space
Moon Adamant: if any infrastructure should be present…. say you want to create hmmm the Opera of Sydney, to give a completely irrelvant example
Leon Ash: back and you’ve been busy 🙂
Moon Adamant: And to answer sonja
Moon Adamant: it’s the same to me as you prefer to make teh discussion
Moon Adamant: i may though ask for further input as you give the Guild data
ThePrincess? Parisi: moon, can i clarify, that th eguild cannot go forward until you know which location to build in/ which sim space.. and there fore theme?
Patroklus Murakami: ty moon 🙂 we’ve been discussing this for more than ten mins now
Patroklus Murakami: so let’s decide whether to carry on or now
Sonja Strom: I think we should continue on a bit longer, especially to answer thePrincess’ question.
Patroklus Murakami: we could spend the rest of the meeting on this one item. or stop in another twenty minutes. or stop now and move on
ThePrincess? Parisi: as i said i say we vote on whether …….and which place to tell the guild, waiting another week will only stall
Patroklus Murakami: what would RA members like to do?
Moon Adamant is waiting for the RA to speak
ThePrincess? Parisi: no .. not another twenty
ThePrincess? Parisi: the guild is waiting on us to go forward with the sim, your voters think you all want a new sim
ThePrincess? Parisi: stalling is not what your manifestos said you would do
Sonja Strom: Please Moon, give us your answer to ThePrincess’ question.
Moon Adamant: The guild considers that the choice of themes or location is a political decision
Leon Ash: Who’s stalling ThePrincess? We are all in agreement about expanding it seems?
Moon Adamant: and thus, does not concern teh Guild
Moon Adamant: as an example
ThePrincess? Parisi: and what sim space ?
Moon Adamant: you may decide to expand population….
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets just vote now
Moon Adamant: then for instance something like CN or NFS would be a good choice… lots of houses…
Sonja Strom: vote on what?
ThePrincess? Parisi: where to put the next sim
Moon Adamant: you may decide to expand territory…. then something like AM… even voids
ThePrincess? Parisi: so the guild can move forward
Brian Livingston: There is still a lot that needs to be decided and given that we’ve now spent 15 minutes on the first part of he first point, I don’t see this whole item getting resolved today.
Patroklus Murakami: vote on what? we need to tell the New Guild which squares to develop next
Moon Adamant: so it’s really the political decision of teh RA
ThePrincess? Parisi: the guild only needs part to go forward.. not everything
Patroklus Murakami: and we still have not decided how to handle this item so can we resolve that first?
Sonja Strom: Well, I guess we could decide where we would like the new sim to go…
ThePrincess? Parisi: we could vote we only have afew choices
Moon Adamant: Welll, the Guild isn’t stopped 🙂
Sonja Strom: I don’t know if that is so important to resolve today, but I am not against our talking about that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Patroklus Murakami: okay, i propose we continue to discuss this item, including any votes for the next twenty minutes. agreed?
Cindy Ecksol thinkks that there’s a motion on the table and a second
Sonja Strom: I agree Pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: i propose we atach the next sim to CN
MT Lundquist: agree
MT Lundquist: second the cn proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I just ask “why”? (I’m neither agreeing not disagreeing)
Patroklus Murakami: hold on MT
Cindy Ecksol thinks “why not?”
MT Lundquist: is there an alternative
ThePrincess? Parisi: because we have a lot of empty space in the forum that needs to have more traffic and has the ……..infrastructiure already
Moon Adamant: there’s 16 of them 🙂
MT Lundquist: proposal?
Sonja Strom: Gwyneth, my reason why is described in a few posts about this in the Forum.
Patroklus Murakami: hearing no objections, we’ll continue this item for 20 mins
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol CIndy ? what I mean is, assuming the whole lot of alternatives, is there a rational choice for an expansion of CN, or is it just an emotional one?
Sonja Strom: I can go into the detail of that if people would like to know.
ThePrincess? Parisi: one.. Roman is popular
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: two.. we have empty infrastructure
ThePrincess? Parisi: three: it will sell FAST
ThePrincess? Parisi: four.. the vendor spaces will fill up with vendor things
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sounds good.
Sonja Strom: I don’t like the way the CDS Master Plan is designed to the east and south of NFS.
Patroklus Murakami: and the evidence for these assertions is…?
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: go to roman empire and roma
ThePrincess? Parisi: they are packedBeathan Vale: I propose athat we plan 2 sims — one a Roman market to the east of CN and the other a residential sim based on Mozart’s Esterhazi to the east of NF — minimal public space (road and an Opera house) — Guild to pan and presetn both proposals – RA to determine which to move forward on after presentation
Sonja Strom: So if a new sim goes in near CN, that gives us more time to talk about the area I am concerned about.
ThePrincess? Parisi: and there are NOT enough residential lots there
Moon Adamant: well, Sonja, masterplan will be in review soon
ThePrincess? Parisi: and CN ilots that exist sell fast
Beathan Vale: Esterhazi to be set up as high density residential
Sonja Strom: Beathan, I would want to know more about your idea for east of NFS before voting on it.
Sonja Strom: Maybe I would like it, but I’m not yet certain because I haven’t looked at it.
Bromo Ivory: I may know of a SIM that we could buy off of a friend inexpensively.
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh bromo?
Bromo Ivory: IN a couple of months
Sonja Strom: Bromo, really?
Bromo Ivory: Yes
Leon Ash: FWIW, I’d like more information and consistency on all the recommendation so far!?
ThePrincess? Parisi: wow
Patroklus Murakami: TP, is your proposal for an extension to CN to the E or W?
Sonja Strom: oh, well, we can talk more about that at that time I guess…
Leon Ash: Everyone seems to agree on expansion, but ‘everyone’ is saying something different?
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok leon i can get that……….by the gelato
Patroklus Murakami: yes leon 🙂 confusion reigns
ThePrincess? Parisi: and either is ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: so we need new RA rules then?
Leon Ash: I don’t know about you all, but maybe we should trash this one out on the forums?
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we move on pat?
ThePrincess? Parisi: agree leon
Beathan Vale: Leon — I agree
MT Lundquist: agreed leon
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, could we strip out the detail of your proposal and make it one to the E of CN and one to the E of NFS?
Brian Livingston: agreed
Beathan Vale: Pat — yes
Leon Ash: good suggestion Pat.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m just trying to clarify theprincess so we have clear proposals to vote on
Sonja Strom: Is anyone against the new sim being next to CN?
Moon Adamant: may i do a proposal?
Patroklus Murakami: go ahead moon
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes moon
Beathan Vale: Sonja — depends on theme
Moon Adamant: for your subsequent discussions, perhaps it coudl be useful if you could itemize
Moon Adamant: that would make it easier to compare proposals, if all proposals answered teh same questions
Sonja Strom: Is anyone against continuing a Roman theme on a sim next to CN?
MT Lundquist: no
ThePrincess? Parisi: no
MT Lundquist: i’d be happy with that
Sonja Strom: me too
Leon Ash: Sonja. I’m not against it, but would prefer to see NFS expanded first 🙂
Beathan Vale: I would rather see two sim proposals – one to expand CN and one to expland NFS — and decide between them
Naftali Torok: sofly sneeks in , and say hello to everybody…….?’
Sonja Strom: hi Nafti
Leon Ash: Hi Naftali
Patroklus Murakami: okay. let’s vote on those two options
Naftali Torok: so rry i am late
Patroklus Murakami: i will summarise the choices…
Patroklus Murakami: Option 1: a sim to the E of CN
Sonja Strom: We know that we will want a theme appropriate to CN next to it, and one appropriate to NFS next to it, so….
Patroklus Murakami: Option 2: one sim to the E of CN and one to the E of NFS
Sonja Strom: I don’t see much reason to compare an extension of CN versus and extension of NFS.
Beathan Vale: Pat — proposed and designed — but not build simultaneously
Patroklus Murakami: in both cases we are talking about the next step in the development of a plan, *not* agreeing to build them
Patroklus Murakami: yes beathan
Bromo Ivory thinks planning both – and then putting it up for vote?
ThePrincess? Parisi: we l agreed to build one i thought
Moon Adamant: may i speak again?
Patroklus Murakami: go on moon
Moon Adamant: since this discussion isn’t really going further than themes
Beathan Vale: Moon — I had very specific proposals beyond theme — Esterhazi and Roman open air market with tenements
Moon Adamant: i would like to remember this RA that the public contest that decided for AM also created a plan called Nea Hora
Moon Adamant: which would introduce a third theme
Beathan Vale:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
Beathan Vale: because it was designed to even the NFS terrain
Moon Adamant: My reason to mention this is is first for fairness, and also to make notice that the inclusion of the Nea Hora theme will need a revision to the masterplan
Leon Ash: Sounds like a sound idea Beathan 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: i have taken the general mood as being that we should expand an existing theme rather than develop a new one. is there anyone who wants to object to that interpretation?
Sonja Strom: I agree Pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: does it have to happen now moon? can that be next after these?
Leon Ash: No Pat, no objection
MT Lundquist: as we all itend rapid development and expansion i agree that we should expand existing thems
Beathan Vale: Pat — I would rather move forward with Neo Hora ASAP — as it is aready partly designed
MT Lundquist: so no objection
Beathan Vale: but — if I am outvoted, I will be a team player
Patroklus Murakami: but i agree with moon that we should consider it and i’m grateful to her for reminding us of that
ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: so, Option 3 is to develop Neo Hora somewhere to teh S of NFS
Patroklus Murakami: let’s move to a vote
Leon Ash: second
Patroklus Murakami: i need to explain it a bit first
Patroklus Murakami: the three options are not mutually exclusive
Patroklus Murakami: so we can agree to 1 and 2 for example
Patroklus Murakami: but a vote for option 3 is a vote to do Neo Hora next (and not CN or NFS)
Patroklus Murakami: is that clear and accepted?
Sonja Strom: yes
Beathan Vale: yes
MT Lundquist: yes
Leon Ash: yes
Brian Livingston: yes
Patroklus Murakami: okay, Option 1: a sim to the E of CN. pls vote aye or nay
Beathan Vale: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
MT Lundquist: aye
Brian Livingston: aye
Leon Ash votes aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: abstain
Patroklus Murakami: okay, that carries
Patroklus Murakami: now option 2
Beathan Vale: aye
Leon Ash votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: Option 2: one sim to the E of CN and one to the E of NFS
Sonja Strom: nay
Patroklus Murakami: aye
MT Lundquist: nay
Brian Livingston: nay
ThePrincess? Parisi: abstain
Patroklus Murakami: LOL
Sonja Strom: LOL
ThePrincess? Parisi: no i m sorry
Patroklus Murakami: well, that falls as it did not a majority
ThePrincess? Parisi: that was a cut and paste
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh
Patroklus Murakami: did not get*
Patroklus Murakami: how did you intend to vote TP?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i misunderstaond
ThePrincess? Parisi: wait .. i need to understand .. did you say that if one is yes.. that we do the CN sim
ThePrincess? Parisi: an dif two is yes we also plan the nfs sim
ThePrincess? Parisi: so if i vote aye then we also plan nfs
Beathan Vale: yes — 2 is plan 2 sim expansions -b- ut only build 1 right nor
Beathan Vale: now even
ThePrincess? Parisi: is …………. i meant to vote nay
Sonja Strom: oh, I thought it was to build both sims
ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry
ThePrincess? Parisi: eventually sonja but not first
Patroklus Murakami: it was to plan both sims
Patroklus Murakami: but no matter, it did not passed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Patroklus Murakami: *did not pass
Bromo Ivory: Sounds liek the RA memebrs didn’t know what they were voting on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Beathan Vale: Bromo — par for the course
Beathan Vale: I wonder waht the SC would do if the vote were refered to them (RA members voted, but did not know waht they were voting on) — lol
Patroklus Murakami: well, i try to explain what’s going on but it can be confusing. ppl need to pay attention
ThePrincess? Parisi: i understand
Bromo Ivory: If they were smart – back away from the table
ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry
Patroklus Murakami: now, option 3
Beathan Vale: yep — I agree Pat
Beathan Vale: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: nay
Sonja Strom: I just looked back at the chat, and it did not seem to specify plan or build – in either case my vote would probably have been the same right now.
Patroklus Murakami: Option 3 is to develop Neo Hora somewhere to teh S of NFS
Sonja Strom: nay
Leon Ash votes aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: devlop? or plan now?
Patroklus Murakami: but a vote for option 3 is a vote to do Neo Hora next (and not CN or NFS)
ThePrincess? Parisi: you mean to plan now and then develop
Beathan Vale: I think a plan is in place
Patroklus Murakami: plan first and develop
Brian Livingston: nay
Beathan Vale: just needs specific design from the Guild
Patroklus Murakami: do it before CN in other words
Sonja Strom: Beathan, I think in that you are incorrect.
Patroklus Murakami: we’re in the middle of a vote
Sonja Strom: Neo Hora was an idea for near CN I thought.
Patroklus Murakami: could i have your votes on option three pls
Beathan Vale: again — aye
Sonja Strom: I voted nay
Patroklus Murakami: nay
ThePrincess? Parisi: nay
Leon Ash votes again and it is still aye
Brian Livingston: nay
MT Lundquist: nay
Patroklus Murakami: that falls
Beathan Vale: OK — expansion to E of CN
Patroklus Murakami: ok, we’re beyond time on that item
Beathan Vale: can we vote now for high density residential focus
Patroklus Murakami: we have agreed on expansion to the E of CN but there is still a lot to decide
Beathan Vale: maybe with some set aside for Commerce Committee proposal use
MT Lundquist: second
Patroklus Murakami: hold on a minute
ThePrincess? Parisi: chat lag MT
MT Lundquist: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Beathan, just as a guideline ? what would “high-density” mean, 30+ residential plots?)
ThePrincess? Parisi: he didnt second adding commerce
Patroklus Murakami: we decided to call an end at half past. now you want to carry on? which is it?
ThePrincess? Parisi: lets leave it up to beathan its his bill
ThePrincess? Parisi: i say we go to the next bill
Beathan Vale: 30 to 50 I think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, thank you
ThePrincess? Parisi: moving on ……………please sir LRA
Beathan Vale: No — I think we should wrap this up
ThePrincess? Parisi: beathans bill
Patroklus Murakami: LOL
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: can a demon be a sir?
Beathan Vale: Frankly, before we consdier the Proces biu, I want to incorporate Pat’s late changes — and to analyse this meetings to show how needed my bill is
Sonja Strom: heehee
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok ..
MT Lundquist: yes
ThePrincess? Parisi: at 50 how many lots, what size bethan?
Beathan Vale: I would like to see 512s and double prim 256s aqs proposed ont he forums
ThePrincess? Parisi: and we dont need commercial cos there is already empty unused commercial spaces
Beathan Vale: also — I would like to have a Roman tenement structure — shared building
ThePrincess? Parisi: open maybe a roman opera house
Beathan Vale: some atrium areas, etc.
Moon Adamant: may i
Beathan Vale: No — I want the Opera house to be paqrt of NFS expansion
ThePrincess? Parisi: how about the .. kind that they had.. ? with a shop in front with a house in the back or on top
Patroklus Murakami: sorry about that
Beathan Vale: please Moon
Patroklus Murakami: scrolling back…
Moon Adamant: if you consider a max of 20% public space, the average size for 50 lots is around the 1000 m2
Beathan Vale: your input is critical here — Moon
Beathan Vale: feel free to jump in
Beathan Vale: in fact, I move the RA to allow Moon full participation in this meeting
Moon Adamant: i always have a calculator close by 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: e second
MT Lundquist: i’m happy with 50
Sonja Strom: I agree
Patroklus Murakami: moon’s advice is invaluable and very welcome
Leon Ash: Agree on that, but think that some areas have to be larger than 1000? Then some have to be very small?
Patroklus Murakami: are ppl proposing 50 lots in the new sim? how does that compare with CN and NFS?
Moon Adamant: well, then you can play with numbers
Moon Adamant: make some smaller, some larger
Beathan Vale: Pat — 50 residential lots — I want additional commercial lots
Moon Adamant: mind that as you need to access more plots, you have to have more roads
Moon Adamant: so we possibly will never be able to reach down the 10% public space
Beathan Vale: Moon – not if the lots are all part of a single tenement building
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Building? ^^
ThePrincess? Parisi: eww
Patroklus Murakami: did the romans have tenemant blocks?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, insulas .D
ThePrincess? Parisi: ppl wanna build their own house
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But… the issue is aboutland ownership
Beathan Vale: Oh yes — most Romans lived in tenements
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (exactly, Princess)
Patroklus Murakami: a barracks perhaps?
ThePrincess? Parisi: so some maybe built but some not
Moon Adamant: yes, insuale
Beathan Vale: very authentic — and underbuilt in Roman themed sims in SL
Moon Adamant: the main issues about communal residences is allotment of prims and prim returns
Patroklus Murakami: i meant tower blocks. 20 stories high?
Moon Adamant is doing one just now, or should be doing
ThePrincess? Parisi: go pat!!!
Beathan Vale: no — but 5 to 8 stories
Symo Kurka: insulae were a real hell
ThePrincess? Parisi: well lets do a thing ppl will buy
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we sell land that has built UP?
ThePrincess? Parisi: we cant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can’t indeed.
Cindy Ecksol thinks this is getting pretty silly….
ThePrincess? Parisi: so we cannot have towers or more than one store
Moon Adamant: also, media assignment is by parcel… though some tricks can be made
ThePrincess? Parisi: story
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just, well, rent… and that means changing a LOT of legislation.
ThePrincess? Parisi: well lets make it simple.. mr. SC
Moon Adamant: also, not sure of something
ThePrincess? Parisi: SP..
MT Lundquist: why not work on 1024 plots with road infrastructure
Moon Adamant: btw, this is not a ‘refusal’, mind, just thiunking aloud
Moon Adamant: tier payment sys
Moon Adamant: i don’t know how it works, i mean how it REFERS to the property
Beathan Vale: yes — assume 1024 lots would work
Sonja Strom: a member of the RA is flying in the Assembly Room
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi grabs beathans shoestriing
Beathan Vale: sorry
Sonja Strom: lol
Patroklus Murakami: why do ppl think that small lots will be popular? who is the target market?
ThePrincess? Parisi: people who thought they wanted to buy here but we are too expensive
MT Lundquist: it was dine in roma suburraa
Sonja Strom: Thanks MT, we could have a look at that project.
MT Lundquist: and they were sold out
ThePrincess? Parisi: stay sold
MT Lundquist: done
Moon Adamant: a mix of plot sizes was considered advisable in AM
Beathan Vale: Most folks want cheaper lots
Patroklus Murakami: but many ppl find small lots too restricting. we have had that experience in NFS
Moon Adamant: and AM has only one plot for sale ATM
ThePrincess? Parisi: not tooooo small
Beathan Vale: Moon — yes — so we have a sim with a mix — let’s do something differnt next
ThePrincess? Parisi: what mix is best moon?
Moon Adamant: lol, i dunno
Symo Kurka: small plots and small shops are not apealing
ThePrincess? Parisi: no smaller than 512
ThePrincess? Parisi: and no larger than 1024
ThePrincess? Parisi: hows that for a mix
Moon Adamant: i think smll plots are very ahrd to live in
Beathan Vale: true
ThePrincess? Parisi: and maybe we can let ppl join
Moon Adamant: but… they force people to upgrade
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (but they’re ok for shops…)
ThePrincess? Parisi: no more than two
Beathan Vale: Moon — exactly
Moon Adamant: which is also good from a commercial pov
Symo Kurka: nobody would visiy a small shop in SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, not on a residential sim…
ThePrincess? Parisi: i just had two plots cos i wanted more
Patroklus Murakami: but we have nothing for them to upgrade to!
Beathan Vale: entry level plots — bring in new citizens — who would then upgrade to largerlots
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok so the lot size being two small
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes they get two plots
Beathan Vale: when the new sims are built —
ThePrincess? Parisi: my garden in CN is two lots
Beathan Vale: are are not going to stop at 4
Moon Adamant: but what i ask is
ThePrincess? Parisi: arun has two lots
ThePrincess? Parisi: come on
ThePrincess? Parisi: get real
Moon Adamant: isn’t NFS already an ‘entrance’ sim?
Patroklus Murakami: hmm, who here lives on less than 1042?
ThePrincess? Parisi: what is for sale in NFS.. NOTHING
ThePrincess? Parisi: i do!
Patroklus Murakami: most ppl upgrade after a while and want bigger lots
Sonja Strom: True
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have a place that is smaller.. several
Brian Livingston: My home is, but I think I own about that…
ThePrincess? Parisi: and so is bromos
Patroklus Murakami: so a mix makes more sense to me
ThePrincess? Parisi: and so is cindys
ThePrincess? Parisi: and so is.. /
Moon Adamant: but in AM, right?
Moon Adamant: which is double sim
Beathan Vale: Pat — who can — what kind of lots are available at thse small size?
Moon Adamant: prim*
Brian Livingston: NFS
Sonja Strom: ThePrincess?, but I think that is partly because we are smaller than the potential demand right now.
Patroklus Murakami: theprincess you have lots more than 1024. you just said so
MT Lundquist: and future sims can give larger sizes
ThePrincess? Parisi: no smaller than 512
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have a half sim.. so what
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have small lots too
Leon Ash: Sorry everyone, but it is time for me to call it a night. I thought these meetings were only an hour, but were heading fior two now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *finally* understands why some of you are proposing two sims at the same time; one with small plots, one with large ones, so that people can be drawn to the small-plot ones, and then upgrade to the large plots.
ThePrincess? Parisi: night leon
Patroklus Murakami: well, my point is that we need a mix
Beathan Vale: yes — we are headed for 2 hour meetings as a rule
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am not bilding the sim for ME
Brian Livingston: I do need to get going shortly as well…
Moon Adamant: uh
Patroklus Murakami: yes gwyn, that’s what i had in mind
Beathan Vale: Pat — i don’t think we need or even want a mix
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sorry, I’m slow sometimes.
Moon Adamant: mind that we had a big diiscussion about that
Patroklus Murakami: but we lost that already… 🙁
Leon Ash: Night all
ThePrincess? Parisi: im buiolding it for ppl who want to be in CDS but cannot get here nwo cos …WE HAVE NOTHING FOR SALE
ThePrincess? Parisi: IF WE BUILD IT THEY WILL BUY
Beathan Vale: we want interesting thematic architecture — not necessarily mixed ots sizes or odd plot layouts
Moon Adamant: that kind of different characters sims
Patroklus Murakami: bye leon 🙂
Sonja Strom: bye Leon
Beathan Vale: ‘night Leon
ThePrincess? Parisi: size doenst matter.. they can buy more lots
MT Lundquist: can we have a vote on the proposal of 512 to 1024 plot sizes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Princess ? I’m an expansionist myself, but I’ll remain silent for now 😀
MT Lundquist: bye leon
Moon Adamant: hmm, Princess, mind that covenants generally have an imposition on max number of properties
Patroklus Murakami: what is the proposal? we need somethign precise to vote on
Cindy Ecksol thinks that if we do small plots mix on this expansion, the next one could be larger lots
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes at what? more than 512?
Beathan Vale: so — TP -it’s not size that matter, but how you use it?
ThePrincess? Parisi: and one can have a group
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol.. beathan.
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok thats true beathan it really is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft Beathan!
ThePrincess? Parisi: we dont need double prim this time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not with 30-50 plots…
ThePrincess? Parisi: nope .. so .. is 512 too small?
MT Lundquist: the proposal is that the next sim is planned usint plot sizes of 512 and 1024
MT Lundquist: does that help pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan can you sell 512s on mainland?
ThePrincess? Parisi: tell me beathan?
Beathan Vale: yes — easiest size to sell
Patroklus Murakami: yes MT. but how many? roughly?
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok end of
Beathan Vale: larger lots are harder
ThePrincess? Parisi: moving on
MT Lundquist: 50
Beathan Vale: I can flip a 512 in 24 hours
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you beathan .. move on pat
Beathan Vale: a 8096 can take 1-2 months
ThePrincess? Parisi: me too
ThePrincess? Parisi: so next .. smallest 512
Moon Adamant: sorry guys, i must really be going
Moon Adamant: thank you all 🙂
MT Lundquist: bye moon
Beathan Vale: goodnight Moon
Sonja Strom: Thanks Moon, see you.
ThePrincess? Parisi: next .. largest is 1024
Brian Livingston: Thanks moon
ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you moon
Patroklus Murakami: okay. let’s take that proposal and vote on it. i will summarise
Patroklus Murakami: bye moon 🙂
Beathan Vale: brb
Patroklus Murakami: so, the proposal is that the new sim has a mix of lots between 512 and 1024 in size. about 50 in total
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
MT Lundquist: ok
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to make an alternative proposal
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
Patroklus Murakami: my proposal is to have about 20-30 plots of various sizes ranging from 144m2 to 2048m2
Sonja Strom: Why do you make that proposal, Patroklus?
Beathan Vale: Pat — match does not work
ThePrincess? Parisi: if NFS has totourble with this small of a lot, why do that again
Beathan Vale: math I mean
ThePrincess? Parisi: no prim land
ThePrincess? Parisi: that wont work will it? what aqre you thinking? i dont understand
Patroklus Murakami: why does that not work beathan?
ThePrincess? Parisi: we wont have prim land in this sim
Patroklus Murakami: i haven’t said 20X2048
ThePrincess? Parisi: how many prims are in 144?
Beathan Vale: a sim is 65536 meters so it has 129512 lots
Beathan Vale: 128 512s I mean
Patroklus Murakami: and?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In 144? Hmm… just 30-40 or so
ThePrincess? Parisi: 32 o……lol.. 32prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, probably only 32 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: its 32 gwuenth
MT Lundquist: what can you do with 32 prims
ThePrincess? Parisi: i am sorry no one can live on that can they?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* yes, probably
ThePrincess? Parisi: or can the use cake for prims
Patroklus Murakami: that’s not the point theprincess. it’s an entry point for new citizens
ThePrincess? Parisi: well ok lets vote on yours or this
Beathan Vale: people can easily live on a 1024 — many peope do live on 512s
Patroklus Murakami: and the point of having a range of plot sizes is to provide some diversity
Cindy Ecksol thinks that it’s crazy to have more than one motion on the table at the same time!!!
Patroklus Murakami: some ppl will want to have more space
ThePrincess? Parisi: pat can we vote?
Beathan Vale: that is why I favor 50 1024s with the rest for roads and gardens
ThePrincess? Parisi: we undestand
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok beathan.. sounds good
MT Lundquist: i would like to vote
ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree with beathan
Patroklus Murakami: okay, let me explain the vote. i was in the middle of it before
ThePrincess? Parisi: what about beathans
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, are you making a third proposal?
Beathan Vale: yes
Beathan Vale: 50 1024s — mixed residential and commercial — with rest set aside for public space (esp gardens)
Patroklus Murakami: okay, bear with me while i try to summarise. it’s complicated and i don’t want anyone to make a mistake
ThePrincess? Parisi: ty
Patroklus Murakami: the three proposals are mutually exclusive. so, if one passes the others automatically fall
Patroklus Murakami: Option 1: a mix of lots between 512 and 1024 in size. about 50 in total
Sonja Strom: lol
Beathan Vale: I think we should vote iteratively
Beathan Vale: top two go forward to a head to head vote
Patroklus Murakami: go on beathan
Beathan Vale: low vote fails
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
Patroklus Murakami: though i warn you we are already beyond our time
ThePrincess? Parisi: agree beathan
MT Lundquist: that sounds good
ThePrincess? Parisi: time shime
Sonja Strom: I can stay longer
ThePrincess? Parisi: no one is leaving
Brian Livingston: I can’t really…
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh bri
Brian Livingston: I have another committment that I am goign to be late for if I don’t leave in probably 5 mintues
ThePrincess? Parisi: hes sick..i forgot
Patroklus Murakami: neither can I so let’s get on, shall we?
ThePrincess? Parisi: oh
ThePrincess? Parisi: i have a motion
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll take beathan’s suggestion
Sonja Strom: ok
ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry forget what i siad
Patroklus Murakami: Option 1: a mix of lots between 512 and 1024 in size. about 50 in total
Patroklus Murakami: Option 2: 20-30 plots of various sizes ranging from 144m2 to 2048m2
Beathan Vale: aye on 1 — nay on 2 — aye on 3
Patroklus Murakami: Option 3: 50 1024s
MT Lundquist: 1 aye 2 nay 3 aye
Patroklus Murakami: ty beathan 🙂 could others follow his voting model?
Brian Livingston: aye on 1, aye on 2, nay on 3
Sonja Strom: 1 aye 2 nay 3 aye
Patroklus Murakami: 1 nay 2 aye 3 nay
ThePrincess? Parisi: aye 1 .. nay 2… aye
Beathan Vale: lol — I think we have a tie for 2nd and thrid
ThePrincess? Parisi: so do we vote then for those two
Patroklus Murakami: is that all the votes in?
Beathan Vale: no
Beathan Vale: OK
Brian Livingston: Leon still needs to vote really…
ThePrincess? Parisi: tie breakers?
Brian Livingston: ?
Beathan Vale: 1 and 2 are are top 2 I think
Beathan Vale: so — aye on 1; nay on 2
Patroklus Murakami: excuse me, i haven’t called the vote yet
Beathan Vale: lo — kk
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok good cos i changed my mind
Gwyneth Llewelyn waits…
Patroklus Murakami: well, we can’t take 1 and 2 as the top two as 2 and 3 tied
ThePrincess? Parisi: but you didnt call for a vote so can you do that
Patroklus Murakami: both 2 and 3 got three votes each
Patroklus Murakami: so what do we do now?
Beathan Vale: I thought there was 1 nay on 1 and 2 nays on 3
ThePrincess? Parisi: vote again
Sonja Strom: we could vote between 2 and 3 to eliminate one of them
Cindy Ecksol thinks “is it time to say ‘I told you so?’”
Patroklus Murakami: so, this is supposed to be a better system?
ThePrincess? Parisi: i abastain .. either is fine
Beathan Vale: 4 nays on 2 — so 1 and 3 are top 2 , yes?
Patroklus Murakami: i think my original handling woudl have produced a more predictable answer. ah well, never mind
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1 – 5 votes, 2 – 3 votes, 3 – 4 votes
Sonja Strom: Thank Gwyneth!
ThePrincess? Parisi: i want either voting system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (unless Princess changes her vote)
Sonja Strom: So it is between 1 and 3.
Beathan Vale: I move we ask the LRA to choose between the two at his discretion and then adjourn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Beathan! how undemocratic!!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
Patroklus Murakami: ty gwyn. i need a secretary to keep track of these complicated votes
ThePrincess? Parisi: i vote for beathans or ours
Yogeswari Padar grins widely
Sonja Strom: 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: how ‘autocratic’ 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs*
Patroklus Murakami: i would never agree to that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ogre Power?
Cindy Ecksol tears hair out….
Sonja Strom: haha
ThePrincess? Parisi: cos if i vote for csdf then what would pl say
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: jk
Beathan Vale: ok — withdrawn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That you’re actually good at compromise, Princess 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: rock paper scissors
MT Lundquist: can we just vote looking at the time
Bromo Ivory thinks cindy could merely disattach her hair with les sissue
Sonja Strom: Let’s vote between one and three.
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, are you withdrawing your proposal?
Sonja Strom: already did Pat
Beathan Vale: yes — I withdraw 3
ThePrincess? Parisi: if you attach your hair to another place it wont fall out when you put on a hat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Patroklus Murakami: the three proposals are mutually exclusive. so, if one passes the others automatically fall”
Beathan Vale: item 1 got more votes anyway
Sonja Strom: oh, sorry I misunderstood
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, 1 passes.
ThePrincess? Parisi: tahts whati thought .. then gwyen
ThePrincess? Parisi: yay ONE
Patroklus Murakami: well, gwyn, that’s not the way we did it
MT Lundquist: ok
Beathan Vale: Gwyn — we were using the twostep process
MT Lundquist: good
Sonja Strom: yay ONE
Patroklus Murakami: but yes, 1 wins by default
ThePrincess? Parisi: yes it is pat, thats hwat you said
MT Lundquist: progress
Brian Livingston: Great.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Option 1: a mix of lots between 512 and 1024 in size. about 50 in total”
ThePrincess? Parisi: yay ONE
ThePrincess? Parisi: yeay gwneth
Patroklus Murakami: i move we adjourn
ThePrincess? Parisi: nooo
Beathan Vale: second
ThePrincess? Parisi: i move that next week
Brian Livingston: Sounds good.
ThePrincess? Parisi: we have any othe rbuisness on the agenda
MT Lundquist: second
Sonja Strom: aye
ThePrincess? Parisi: i move that we vote to have aob on the agenda next week
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, we’re in a vote on adjournment
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we vote , you hve to let us per RA rules pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: so you are doign this agin.. last week i asked and you said no
Patroklus Murakami: no other votes allowed according to robert’s rules 🙂
ThePrincess? Parisi: no to ajourn then
MT Lundquist: we arnt using roberts rules yet pat
Sonja Strom: nay to adjourn
MT Lundquist: inay to adjurn
Brian Livingston: I can’t stay for this, but if there any votes, I do request a 7 day. Good night ladies, gentlemen, dragons…
Patroklus Murakami: hmm, we have three in favour of adjourning and three against.
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol great beathan
Patroklus Murakami: bye brian
Sonja Strom: bye Brian
Patroklus Murakami: i need to go too
ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan didnt fovte to adgour
MT Lundquist: bye brian
ThePrincess? Parisi: well i want any other business on next week
Jon Seattle: Bye Brian 🙂
Cindy Ecksol thinks maybe pat will be gracious for once….
ThePrincess? Parisi: why are you opposed to that
Beathan Vale: ok — provided Brian gets a seven day vote — nay to adjoirn
Patroklus Murakami: if you have an agenda item, submit it in advance
ThePrincess? Parisi: seven day
ThePrincess? Parisi: NO
ThePrincess? Parisi: the RA rules say i can
ThePrincess? Parisi: ask to have a thing on agenda
ThePrincess? Parisi: if we vote for it for next week
ThePrincess? Parisi: and you know it
Beathan Vale: I move that we consider item 6 of the process bill
ThePrincess? Parisi: you know we can add agenda for next week..
ThePrincess? Parisi: if we get a vote
ThePrincess? Parisi: and you know i IMd you at the meeting start
ThePrincess? Parisi: and you didnt respond
Sonja Strom: second of Beathan’s move
ThePrincess? Parisi: third
MT Lundquist: fourth
ThePrincess? Parisi: pat read the RA rulles hun, if we ask for a agenda item you have to put it if we vote to have it
ThePrincess? Parisi: can we post the RA rules on the wall
ThePrincess? Parisi: maybe that would help
Cindy Ecksol is amazed that the LRA is now asleep…..shades of Ronald Reagan?
Sonja Strom: haha
ThePrincess? Parisi: lol cindy
ThePrincess? Parisi: my cross got to work ..
ThePrincess? Parisi: do we have a vice LRA
Patroklus Murakami: excuse me a moment
ThePrincess? Parisi: ok thanks
Sonja Strom: opportune timing for being “Away”?
ThePrincess? Parisi: imagine that
Cindy Ecksol thinks “Quick! pass something while he’s away!”
Yogeswari Padar: give him a break, gang, it’s midnight in the UK
Sonja Strom: lol
ThePrincess? Parisi: i propose that cindy is the name of the next sim
ThePrincess? Parisi: i vote aye
Patroklus Murakami: scrolling back.. bear with me
ThePrincess? Parisi: it was jokes only pat
Patroklus Murakami: TP, why do you want ‘any other business’ on the agenda? why can’t you submit an item in advance? if it’s important enough to discuss it’s surely important enough to post in advance?
ThePrincess? Parisi: so when ppl have issues that are unforseen they can add them
ThePrincess? Parisi: soemtimes you dont know, lik e today you forgot a thing
Patroklus Murakami: such as?
ThePrincess? Parisi: maybe we need to add a thing too
ThePrincess? Parisi: well one thing is this
Beathan Vale: well — I don’t want to have vote or action items added without notice
ThePrincess? Parisi: so we need to follow the rules.. why are you opposed to it is the big question
MT Lundquist: 1. Agenda. The Leader of the RA (LRA) will determine the agenda for each meeting, and publish it on a notecard before each meeting. It is expected that all members will suggest agenda items, but the LRA will make the final determination. If the membership feels that the LRA has not brought an agenda item to the meeting that they want, a petition agreed to by a majority of all members can insert an agenda item into the list for the next meeting. The LRA at all times determines the order of the agenda.
ThePrincess? Parisi: no but to discuss
Patroklus Murakami: the problem i have with ‘aob’ is that it’s an ambush item. like the last time you raised an aob item
Yogeswari Padar: PLEASE, folks – it is VERY late in the UK and the rest of europe – please try to have some consideration
ThePrincess? Parisi: pat we can be voted out if we are ambusing
Beathan Vale: yes — it is very late across the pond
Patroklus Murakami: but i’ll bear that in mind when putting the agenda together next time
ThePrincess? Parisi: why dont you want us to have it, you can kick us out if we ambush you
Beathan Vale: Pat — I think that item 6 on m proposal covers that
MT Lundquist: this is simple pat
ThePrincess? Parisi: you said that three weeks ago
MT Lundquist: you have to let us vote on this
Beathan Vale: as long as it is a discussion only period — there is not much rea harm even if there is an ambush
MT Lundquist: read the ra rules
ThePrincess? Parisi: i vote that beathans bill is on frist next week
Pip Torok: permission to speak, chairman
Patroklus Murakami: well, i’ve seen your vote. but i need to go now so goodbye
ThePrincess? Parisi: what about beathans
Beathan Vale: I will add and clarify it betwen now and then
ThePrincess? Parisi: let the citizen speakRA Meeting: March 09, 2008
Transcript
13:02 Sonja Strom: So, ThePrincess? and MT have excused absences?
13:02 Beathan Vale: yes — but I don’t know if that means we have a quorum
13:02 Sonja Strom: Right – but we know they will not be here.
13:02 You: No, we still need 50% +1 to have a quorum
13:03 Beathan Vale: and I don’t know if we should consider the RA to be an RA of 5 or an RA of 7
13:03 Beathan Vale: is it 50% of current members of 50% of potential members?
13:03 You: I’d say an RA of 7, although the SCneeds to work on that. THe Constitution does stipulate that a faction controls its seats and the number of seats corresponds to the population of the CDS
13:04 Beathan Vale: I agree – we should not do something that will be useless — so we should take the most conservative interpretation until the SC rules
13:04 Sonja Strom: That’s fine with me.
13:04 Sonja Strom: We already have a schedule for today anyway…
13:04 You: I’ll e-mail claude to request interpretation after the meeting
13:04 Sonja Strom: That’s a good idea
13:05 Beathan Vale: true — and the meting convened with a quorum last week — but I think we should still wait a week — let things settle a bit
13:05 Sonja Strom: sure, actually I should correct myself…
13:05 You: Ok, it is 1:05 PM SLT and I am reconvening this week’s session of the Representative Assembly
13:05 Sonja Strom: OK
13:06 You: Attendance is noted, with Brian Livingston, Beathan Vale, and Sonja in attendance, with apologies from MT and The Princess
13:07 Sonja Strom: Is there a recorder, or will we just use the chat log?
13:07 You: We do not have a Quorum so no vote will be taken today on agenda items.
13:07 Beathan Vale: chat log I thnk
13:07 You: Yes, I don’t have a recorder yet so Chatlog will have to suffice
13:08 You: We *can * contineu with discussion on the agenda that was continued from the last meeting, again with no votes taken, if the Assembly so wishes
13:08 Sonja Strom: That’s fine.
13:09 You: Beathan, would you like to lead the discussion of the next Agenda item, your RA Process Bill?
13:10 Beathan Vale: ok
13:10 Beathan Vale: discussion
13:10 Beathan Vale: let me pull it up
13:11 Beathan Vale: This is a multifaceted bill designed in large part to resolve conflicts we have had in past RA meetings by improving and streamlining the process
13:11 Beathan Vale: I think everyone agrees that the last few RA meetings have not been optimal.
13:12 Beathan Vale: Leon, in fact, has recently said that the last few RA meetings will discourage anyone from joining the CDS or following our lead in the creation of SL democracies
13:13 Beathan Vale: there have been two principle suggestions for resolving this problem — first, to empower the LRA still further, and give him autocratic control of the RA to squash conlict by squashing debate — I think that this is a horrible idea
13:13 Beathan Vale: second, the one I favor — that precipited the bill — to institute some formal and clear processes that allow for debate within a working framework that would prevent disruption and provide for movement of issues towards resolution
13:14 Beathan Vale: I proposed Robert’s Rules because they are tried and true — these have been opposed as too complicated and too parochially American — however, the opponents have not offered any real or sound alternative
13:14 Beathan Vale: so — to work through the propsoal
13:15 Second Life: Please check http://blog.secondlife.com for an update on in world services. Do not conduct Land or L$ Transactions until you see an all clear message on our blog post.
13:15 Beathan Vale: item 1 — involves 7 day votes or the importance of inwolrd votes
13:15 Beathan Vale: The first alternative is the one I support. It just spells out and clearly describes our current rule to prevent confusion like we had at at least one meeting last term
13:16 Beathan Vale: Item 1A is proposed by ThePrincess?, who believes that it is important for the RA to do things in world at meetings attended by citizens
13:17 Beathan Vale: I think that this inworld stipulation is unncessary — as citizens can attend and participate in forum discussions as easily as attend the inwolrd meeting — more easily in most cases
13:17 Beathan Vale: Item 2 might be most controversial — it is designed to prevent hasty RA action
13:18 Beathan Vale: several citizens with RL legislative experience have decried the speed of RA deliberations — and have suggested that we follow the rule, common iRL, of introducing legislation, providing for a comment and consideration period not limited by the time limits of a hearing, and then representing the bill for vote
13:19 Sonja Strom: Welcome Pip
13:19 You: Good Day Pip
13:19 Beathan Vale: I favor rhis — I think there is no reason why most legislation should be passed in the same hearing in which it is first introduced
13:19 Pip Torok: hi everyone
13:19 Sonja Strom: Welcome Bjerkel
13:19 Beathan Vale: a two reading process seems wise, deliberate, and not too much of an obstruction
13:20 Bjerkel Eerie: sorry to barge in
13:20 Pip Torok: hi bj
13:20 Beathan Vale: Item 3 just formalizes current process, for the most part, although it does clarify that Pat was just wrong in denying RA control of our agenda from the floor
13:20 You: (No problem and welcome )
13:20 Beathan Vale: However, even Jon Seattle has said that the RA has such control– so item 3 essentially clarifies current procedure
13:21 You decline NEW STARDUST CAFE, Five Blades (8, 227, 23) from A group member named Therese Nightfire.
13:21 Beathan Vale: However — it does accomodate a change I am proposing elsewhere of allowing things to be added to the agenda based on forum posts
13:22 Beathan Vale: it also incorporates a resolution of some concerns of TP concerning notice
13:22 Beathan Vale: Item 4 specifies RROs as the procedure for the RA.
13:22 Beathan Vale: This is, I think, critical — RROs work, work well and are not at all hard to use
13:23 Beathan Vale: Item 4a is Pat’s counterproposal — it is insufficient — it is not an improvement
13:24 Beathan Vale: our problem is that we have a rule sketch — not a set of rules — and Pat’s proposal is just another rule sketch that does not resolve our problems
13:25 Beathan Vale: Item 5 adds the forum posts as a basis to add items to the agenda — otherwise it just clarifies existing rules
13:25 Beathan Vale: Item 5A is a substantial change — it limits the power to propose legislation to RA members only
13:26 Beathan Vale: again, this was suggested by citizens with RL legislative experience — and it reflects what RL legislatures do
13:26 Beathan Vale: I favor 5 over the alternative
13:26 Pip Torok: mmmm
13:26 Beathan Vale: I think we are not so large that citizens cannot propose legislation directly — although we might get there
13:26 Bjerkel Eerie: real life has petiton, referendum and recall
13:27 Beathan Vale: Further, unless we have a referendum process allowing citizen proposals — we should not strip the citizens of their already aenemic power to directly influence governemnt
13:27 Beathan Vale: I think of citizen proposals of legislation as comparable to the RL right to petition government , which is a critical human right
13:28 Beathan Vale: Item 6 is proposes that we add a general and open discussion period, with time limits, to the end of all our meetings
13:28 Beathan Vale: I think that all well run meetings should have such a discussion
13:29 Beathan Vale: The only opposition is that open discussions allow for “ambush of the LRA”
13:30 Beathan Vale: However, the RA should expect to be ambushed by events and by citizen concerns from time to time — and we should welcome such challenges as they will make us more aware of the issues of importance in our community and more responsive ot the needs of our citizens
13:30 Sonja Strom: Hello, Welcome to the Representative Assembly meeting
13:30 Beathan Vale: again — we need to move away from a procedural of autocratic control and towards a procedure that works more like the rule of law
13:30 Dieuwert Spijkers: hello all
13:30 Dieuwert Spijkers: have a good serious meeting
13:30 Dieuwert Spijkers: we dont disturb
13:30 Beathan Vale: the basis of a democracy is that no individual dictates terms of law to the citizens
13:30 Sonja Strom: If you would like, please join us and have a seat
13:31 Lunatic Rang: first time to visit
13:31 Lunatic Rang: but ty for the kind invitation
13:31 Beathan Vale: The same should true of the legislature — the RA should be ruled by law, but not controlled and stifled by the LRA
13:31 Beathan Vale: to do this — we need clear and complete procedures so that we don’t rely on personal action and personal leadership to give our meetings order
13:32 You decline Streeter’s Place, Koskov (217, 81, 70) from A group member named Singerman Marquette.
13:32 You decline THE CAVERN CLUB – Mathew St, Liverpool from A group member named Leyah Renegade.
13:32 Beathan Vale: A good procedure makes meetings self-organizing without personal intervention (or with only limited personal intervention) of the chair — that is critical for the RA moving forward
13:32 Beathan Vale: That is all — thank you chair
13:32 Sonja Strom: Thank you Beathan!
13:32 You: Thank you. Any other discussion on thsi bill before i make soem remarks?
13:32 Sonja Strom: Thanks so much for putting all of your work into this!
13:32 You decline Apfelland Hafen Clubschiff, White Eagle (186, 103, 31) from A group member named foxyflwr Cure.
13:33 Pip Torok: yes tku is there a written form of those proposals?
13:33 Pip Torok: tku
13:33 Sonja Strom: Yes, I sent you one as a notecard.
13:33 Beathan Vale: yes — on the forum — and I gave you a note
13:33 You: Ok, a few quick thoughts I have had regarding this proposal, which I will work through by moving through each part of the proposal.
13:35 You: For the record, I feel that this proposal is increasingly important as we grow. We are no longer an assembly of five representatives, but we are expanding rapidly, to the point htat 9 or 11 representatives may not be unheard of within the next year
13:35 You: I agreew ith Beathan’s interpretation of the bill and its alternatives, wit hteh following points of emphasis.
13:37 You: Section 1: I am certainyl against teh alternative proposed for the first section, dealing with 7 day votes. To insist that the members submit to the RA’s opinion on whether their absence is excused is rather insultign to the dignity of the RA members and unneccessarially delves into their SL and RL privacy.
13:38 You: Section 4 does concern me, as I am not fully convinced that we need a several hundred page set of rules for governing our meetings, although it is evident that we do need a more defined set of rules
13:39 You: That being said, I have been working on alternatives and have located a few , but any such alternative needs to be easily accessible for all RA members and citizens and it seems most rule sets for parlimentary pprocedures require purchasign the actual book, which is a bit of a hurdle for teh sake of easy reference.
13:40 You: Section 5: I am opposed to the alternative proposal for this section, which limits the ability of citizens to propose legislation. Citizens need to be better empowered to interact with andshape their government, not hampered in that pursuit.
13:40 Sonja Strom: I have a question about that part.
13:41 You: Sections 2, 3, and 6 look reasonable to me.
13:41 You: Yes Sonja
13:41 Sonja Strom: What is the difference between 5. and Alternative 5a. ? I don’t see it…
13:42 You: Section 5 permits both RA members and citizens to propose legislation
13:42 You: Alternative 5 a limits the ability to propose legislation to RA members only
13:42 Sonja Strom: Oh, maybe I have an old notecard.
13:42 Sonja Strom: In mine 5a does not, but 5b does.
13:43 You: Hrm, perhaps I’m working off an old notecard then. Beathan?
13:44 Sonja Strom: In future, maybe the versions given out could have dates on them, to tell them apart.
13:45 Sonja Strom: Or version numbers, maybe.
13:45 You: Hmm, I’m looking for a version with 5b and am not seeing it, but yes, probably not a bad idea to hav ea timestamp of some sort.
13:46 You: In addition, whenI get a notecard dispensor (on the to do list this week), it will make this a bit mroe of a moot point
13:46 Beathan Vale: yes — that is an old version
13:46 Sonja Strom: Well, so long as we have a distinction between those two possibilities maybe it is not really important…
13:46 Beathan Vale: there were some minor time differences — but they were moved
13:47 Sonja Strom: Mine is the old version?
13:47 Sonja Strom: or Brian’s
13:49 Brian Livingston pokes Beathan
13:49 Sonja Strom giggles
13:49 You: Hmm, in the interest of expediency, are there any other comments regarding the RA Process Bill?
13:50 Sonja Strom: I have thought a lot about the Robert’s Rules of Order concept,
13:50 Sonja Strom: and posted about this in the Forum.
13:50 Sonja Strom: I think we should abandon that particular route.
13:51 Sonja Strom: It would be very good to clarify the RA rules much more,
13:51 Sonja Strom: but I think we should do that on our own.
13:51 Sonja Strom: We could use any of those same rules we wanted, but then simply add them into our own existing set of rules.
13:51 Sonja Strom: Even if that makes our own rules quite large,
13:52 Sonja Strom: it would still leave us in control of altering them as we wished…
13:52 Beathan Vale: that process seems wrought with peril as well as being very challenging
13:52 Sonja Strom: and no one would need to purchase anything.
13:52 Sonja Strom: Why?
13:53 Beathan Vale: and I have proposed purchasing copies for the CDS — there should also be an electronic version we can purchase
13:53 Beathan Vale: that is, I would personally purchase the RROs for RA members
13:53 Beathan Vale: current RA members, at least
13:53 You decline Champlain College Campus, Champlain College ITS (178, 97, 26) from A group member named kat Vargas.
13:53 Bjerkel Eerie: LOOk I have a freind with a tool to copy and rezz a whole sim
13:53 Beathan Vale: I think that trying to create a process from scratch is like reinventing the wheel
13:54 Beathan Vale: it is hard and unnecessary as we have a proven set of useful rules ready to hand
13:55 You: Hmm, an intersting and useful summary in a page of RRO
13:55 You: http://www.robertsrules.org/
13:55 Beathan Vale: yes — excellent exhibit
13:55 You: and motions used in meetings: http://www.robertsrules.org/motions.htm
13:56 Sonja Strom: Ooh, those look very good Bjerkel
13:56 Sonja Strom: I do also agree with ThePrincess? that it would be good to have them posted somewhere in the meeting room when RA meetings are taking place,
13:56 Sonja Strom: so everyone can refer to them and see what they are.
13:58 Sonja Strom: Maybe like that, behind Bjekel, or maybe in the form of a book on the table or something.
13:58 You: I think a notecard format would suffice, especially with the text-intensive format of the rules.
13:58 Sonja Strom: OK, if you think it could be readable that way.
13:58 You: However, that would be an issue if we institute RRO, as I’ve only found the 1915 rules in public domain
13:59 Sonja Strom: Then in that case, I think it should be in the form of a “Rule Book” sitting on the table next to the “Constitution Book.”
13:59 Beathan Vale: yes — but I could buy us an virtual or online licensed version
13:59 Sonja Strom: Maybe.
13:59 Sonja Strom: It seems like organisations must be able to do that.
14:00 Bjerkel Eerie: I think they are public domain
14:00 Beathan Vale: no RROs are copyrighted
14:01 Beathan Vale: but cheap — like $6 a pop
14:01 Beathan Vale: paperback cheap
14:01 Sonja Strom: OK, I will reconsider my view.
14:01 You: How major are the differences between the Public Domain 4th ed and the current ed?
14:02 Beathan Vale: I have not done that analyiss
14:03 You: Hmm, something I can continue to research I suppose.
14:03 Beathan Vale: there is some language differences — older longer more confusing language in old version
14:03 You: ah
14:03 You: Any further comments on this bill?
14:04 Sonja Strom: I have a general comment, that might be good to just bring up in this context.
14:04 Sonja Strom: I would like for us to consider Arria’s idea of having an Intiative process for the CDS.
14:04 Beathan Vale: yes — I am working on that
14:05 Sonja Strom: (and yes, Beathan, in Switzerland this is also called an Initiative)
14:05 Sonja Strom: “Volksinitiativ”
14:05 You: I’m certainly open to a referendum/citizen initiative procedure
14:06 Beathan Vale: but isn’t there a referral process in Switzerland — the legislature refers things to the citizens — or is it completely citizen initiated?
14:06 Sonja Strom: There is — there are Referenda, and Initiatives.
14:06 Beathan Vale: ok —
14:06 Sonja Strom: When the Parliament or Cantonal Representative Assemblies pass laws,
14:07 Sonja Strom: often they are approved by having Referendum votes.
14:07 Sonja Strom: Some of these are mandatory.
14:08 Sonja Strom: If the citizens want legislation that is different than what the legislative bodies have proposed already, then they have a right to begin an Initiative process.
14:08 Sonja Strom: They collect signatures, and these issues are put on the ballot.
14:08 Sonja Strom: They can supercede the Parliament or Cantonal governing bodies —
14:08 Bjerkel Eerie: With the copyright expired, even the name “Robert’s” has passed into the public domain, and many imitators have slapped the name “Robert’s” on books of parliamentary procedure that bear minimal relation to General Robert’s work (
14:09 Sonja Strom: but they need to have a lot of signatures, and a majority vote,
14:09 Sonja Strom: which is relatively rare to achieve, in order to make them become law.
14:09 Sonja Strom: But it does happen.
14:09 Sonja Strom: On occasion, the Parliament and so on will be against an Initiative that passes and changes the law.
14:10 Sonja Strom: It does seem to me that it would be good for the CDS to have some procedure like this.
14:10 Beathan Vale: I agree
14:11 Sonja Strom: However, this does seem a bit different of an issue than the RA rules themselves.
14:11 Sonja Strom: So, they do not need to be considered together.
14:12 Sonja Strom: I was just thinking it might be good to bring up a discussion about such a concept at this time, while we are talking about making changes to the RA rules.
14:12 Beathan Vale: yes — especially as there is a proposal to limit RA legislation to matters proposed by RA membrs only
14:13 You: Indeed.
14:13 Sonja Strom: Right.
14:14 Sonja Strom: It might be possible to have matters that the RA only could propose, but then a citizen Initiative way that non-RA members could propose things.
14:15 Sonja Strom: I might be making this more complicated than is necessary, I don’t know, but am just trying to bring up possible ways of doing it…
14:15 Sonja Strom: In general, I think the changes proposed would be much better than the current system.
14:16 Pip Torok: (agree)
14:16 You: Agreed
14:16 You: Any further comments? If not, let’s briefly move to teh Greener Sims Bill before we adjourn for the week.
14:17 Sonja Strom: I’m done talking about it, lol
14:17 Beathan Vale: nothing further here
14:17 Pip Torok: if anyones got a note about it id appreciate it
14:17 You: Ok, Greener Sims Bill, Sonja, I believe you proposed this legislation?
14:17 Sonja Strom: You mean the current version of the bill?
14:17 Beathan Vale: notecard send
14:18 Sonja Strom: Thanks.
14:18 Sonja Strom: Actually, I believe the CSDF proposed that,
14:18 Pip Torok: tks B
14:18 Sonja Strom: although I support it.
14:18 You: Oh, Hmm
14:18 Bjerkel Eerie: i have never heard of it befor just now
14:18 Sonja Strom: Hmm, maybe I am wrong about that…
14:18 Sonja Strom: Well, we can talk about it anyway.
14:19 Beathan Vale: it wa s CSDF proposal — part of the platform
14:19 Beathan Vale: seems noncontroversial
14:19 You: My mistake. Either way, any thoguhts on this legislation
14:19 Sonja Strom: I think it is about having the CDS purchase a “renewable energy credit” for its sims.
14:19 Pip Torok: yes how are the emissions from CDS derived?
14:20 Beathan Vale: I would like to see how expensive carbon offset credits would be
14:20 Sonja Strom: Do we have any factories here?
14:20 Beathan Vale: and how much 3 sims worth of credits would be
14:20 Sonja Strom: What jobs do we have, actually?
14:20 Beathan Vale: might be better to just plant a tree or three —
14:20 Beathan Vale: but — this bill makes a good statement iRL
14:20 Pip Torok: e.g. is there a “smoking chimney” rate?
14:20 Sonja Strom: Good question!
14:21 Sonja Strom: It could set an example for SL.
14:21 Sonja Strom: If all of SL did that, it might make a difference…
14:21 Bjerkel Eerie: each sim uses as much electricity as teh average brazilian on an annual basis
14:21 Sonja Strom: wow
14:22 Pip Torok: yes but first things first … eg how much emission do the 2 giant CN lamps emit?
14:22 Bjerkel Eerie: 2 what???
14:22 Pip Torok: you know the giant torches on the wall
14:22 Beathan Vale: yes — but we need to know the source of the power — is it from a coal plant, or wind, or solar, or hydroelectic
14:22 Sonja Strom: for SL, or the CDS
14:23 Sonja Strom: ?
14:23 Beathan Vale: as far as we know — the SL servers are already low carbon
14:23 You: The sims are located in Southern California? I would wagera gues that a good chunk would be hydro
14:23 Beathan Vale: depends on where the servers are on the grid
14:23 Pip Torok: perhaps were wading in detail too much at this stage
14:23 Beathan Vale: some servers are in England now
14:23 Sonja Strom: Does anyone know what the cost of this would be to the CDS?
14:23 Pip Torok: oh????
14:23 Beathan Vale: and some are on the East Coast, yes?
14:23 Bjerkel Eerie: California is mostly nukes coal and oil
14:24 Pip Torok: perhaps we should b brutal and measure CDS emission by the server outlay in its own energy
14:25 Sonja Strom: Sorry, Pip, I don’t understand what you mean.
14:25 Pip Torok: well we have 3 sims here and they are run fundamentally by servers ok?
14:25 Sonja Strom: right
14:25 Pip Torok: these servers consume energy
14:26 Bjerkel Eerie: and each uses about a thousand kwh per year or one megawatt
14:26 Sonja Strom: correct
14:26 Pip Torok: a proportion of the total LL energy requrement
14:26 Sonja Strom: I see, OK thanks.
14:27 Sonja Strom: And these credits would compensate for the use of 3 megawatts per year by purchasing them from renewable energy sources?
14:27 Pip Torok: apologies for treading close to the facticity parameters of SL …
14:27 Sonja Strom: no apology necessary
14:27 You: Hmm. So it seems more research is required to better weigh the neccessity and cost of htis proposal, includign perhaps an inquiry to LL regarding the energy usage of each sim, the source of their electricitiy and site of our servers, if they would release such detailed information that is…
14:28 Sonja Strom: Maybe that would be good to do next, Brian.
14:28 Pip Torok: yes .. although if we know the number and if the servers have equal power requirements we COULD derive it
14:28 Bjerkel Eerie: it does not matter where they are located as all enrgy flows into the national grid and is mixed
14:28 You: As well as the cost and avenues of purcahse for these carbon credits
14:28 You: Unless tehy are located offshore in Europe
14:29 You: Which Beathan has indicated as a possibility
14:29 Pip Torok: with respect in a world crisis it wont matter where they are
14:29 Bjerkel Eerie: germany is 80% cola nd nuke
14:29 Pip Torok: ah i see your point
14:30 You: I mean, we can certainly simplify this by figuring out how much energy each sim sues and simply bbuyign the credits and ignoring the detailed factors of electricity source and whatnot, which may be our best bet to accomplish the overal goal of thsi legislatio nand prevent our heads from exploding
14:30 Sonja Strom: Do we actually know that these credits would help to offset the environmental impact of the servers?
14:30 Pip Torok: not at the moment …
14:30 Beathan Vale: I think I am righton that — I remember some service interuptions that LL said was involved in moveing sims to servers in England
14:31 Sonja Strom: I have heard that also.
14:31 Pip Torok: did LL justify the move to England?
14:31 Sonja Strom: It was partly to stabilise the grid in Europe, in my understanding.
14:31 Sonja Strom: Also to make it not so completely dependent on the Internet grid of the United States.
14:32 Pip Torok: of course!
14:32 Bjerkel Eerie: England has teh worst renewable energy policies in Europe
14:32 Beathan Vale: it also might have been part of an attempt to set up a possible grid where casinos could run — they would be illegal under US law, but English law is (apparently) easier to comply with
14:32 Sonja Strom: Really? That is interesting… How do they compare with the USA?
14:33 Bjerkel Eerie: we ahave a 30% tax credit they have nothing
14:33 Beathan Vale: well — I did not end up taking the solicitors exam as planned — although I still have it on my longterm to dos — so should not speculate
14:33 You: Ok folks, I am goign to request we start wrapping up this discussion for now and perhaps continue in the appropriate forum threads, as it is now jsut after 2:30 SLT.
14:33 Sonja Strom: OK
14:33 Beathan Vale: second
14:33 Sonja Strom: Aye
14:33 Pip Torok: agree
14:34 Sonja Strom: Does anyone want to look further into the details of these “green” credits?
14:34 Sonja Strom: Like what Brian was saying earlier?
14:34 Pip Torok: I do … but i have calls on my time …
14:34 Beathan Vale: I will inquire with a attorney at work — she is in the process of setting up a carbon bank
14:34 Sonja Strom: Very great Beathan!!
14:35 Bjerkel Eerie: I really think you should visit my Energy Paths Oveiview project to get a sense of what is going on in energy issues
14:35 Pip Torok: BJ hav changed my mind … this call comes first
14:35 Sonja Strom: I am extremely busy, otherwise I would volunteer.
14:35 You: If I get a chance I’ll try to look itno it some this week
14:35 Sonja Strom: Bjerkel, what do you mean? I didn’t understand….
14:36 Sonja Strom: Do you mean your Commonwealth project?
14:36 Bjerkel Eerie: you have not seen what we are doing there sonja we are reduing all the sims
14:37 You: So, I move to end discussion and adjourn this meeting of the R.A.
14:37 You: Eep lag
14:37 Beathan Vale: OK — I have to run — can we continue this meeting one more week for a vote when he have a quorum
14:37 Sonja Strom: OK – we will stop for today then. See you later!
14:37 Beathan Vale: and Brian — are you posting the transcript?
14:38 You: Yes, I’ll do so laterRA Meeting: March 16, 2008
-Commerce Commission
-Code Reorganisation
-Election Rules
-RA Process
Transcript
2008/03/16 12:03 Connected
2008/03/16 12:03 Bjerkel Eerie: Hi Pat
2008/03/16 12:04 Patroklus Murakami: hi
2008/03/16 12:04 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Delia Lake (19m)
2008/03/16 12:04 Beathan Vale: Brian — I think I did — but I didn’t get a message
2008/03/16 12:04 Yogeswari Padar: hi pat, hi danton
2008/03/16 12:04 notetaker 2.0.1: You have already signed in.
2008/03/16 12:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: same heren
2008/03/16 12:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: here
2008/03/16 12:04 Sonja Strom is Online
2008/03/16 12:05 Jon Seattle: Hi Delia 🙂
2008/03/16 12:05 Yogeswari Padar: hi delia
2008/03/16 12:05 Brian Livingston: Hm. I’ve never used this notekeeper before so I’m not sure. Let me check something
2008/03/16 12:05 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Sonja Strom (5m)
2008/03/16 12:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: hello citizens
2008/03/16 12:05 Delia Lake: good day everyone
2008/03/16 12:05 ThePrincess? Parisi bows to sonja .. im so glad to see yow
2008/03/16 12:05 Sonja Strom: hello everybody
2008/03/16 12:05 Jon Seattle: Hi Sonja 🙂
2008/03/16 12:05 Sonja Strom: a;)
2008/03/16 12:05 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: PMRobert Walpole (19m)
2008/03/16 12:06 MT Lundquist: hi sonja
2008/03/16 12:06 Beathan Vale: Ya! A quorum
2008/03/16 12:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat are here as an active RA member?
2008/03/16 12:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: or did you resign? im confused
2008/03/16 12:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: as usual
2008/03/16 12:07 Beathan Vale: no — I think Pat is here as a citizen — as he is entitled to be
2008/03/16 12:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: welcome pat!
2008/03/16 12:07 Brian Livingston: Ok, MT< Sonja, Yoge, Bjerkel, and PMRobert, if you could touch the recorder on the table to indicate your cconsent tobe put on the record for this meeting
2008/03/16 12:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: i just wanted to be clear
2008/03/16 12:07 Naftali Torok is Online
2008/03/16 12:08 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Dnate Mars (5m)
2008/03/16 12:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: seeing blue again
2008/03/16 12:08 Brian Livingston: Ergh, i don't lknow how well this is goingto work...
2008/03/16 12:08 Patroklus Murakami: yes, what beathan said. (I'm just finishing dinner here in RL)
2008/03/16 12:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
2008/03/16 12:10 Brian Livingston: Well, I do believe we can get started with this meeting
2008/03/16 12:10 Brian Livingston: There are currently 5 RA members present so we do have a quoru, woohoo
2008/03/16 12:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: i second the woohooo
2008/03/16 12:10 MT Lundquist: excellent
2008/03/16 12:11 Jon Seattle: Point of information, for the record, who is chairing this meeting?
2008/03/16 12:11 Object owned by Brian Livingston gave you 'Celebrating our volunteers Bill' ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Neufreistadt/197/185/178 ).
2008/03/16 12:11 Beathan Vale: Brian
2008/03/16 12:11 Brian Livingston: Again, if you have not done so, please toucch the recorder and teh notecard dispenser (the green box next to it) to indicate your consent to be recorded for the record and to collect the notecards for hte meeting
2008/03/16 12:12 Brian Livingston: Before we get starteed, I am going to request that we attempt to keep the meeting to two hours, as I realize that many of hte members have buys schedules today 🙂
2008/03/16 12:13 Beathan Vale: second
2008/03/16 12:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: third
2008/03/16 12:13 MT Lundquist: agree
2008/03/16 12:13 Flyingroc Chung: cant you do it in one?
2008/03/16 12:13 Beathan Vale: FR — not lately
2008/03/16 12:13 Brian Livingston: Eh, 5 minutes :p
2008/03/16 12:13 Brian Livingston: Ok, Committee Reports - Commerece is up first
2008/03/16 12:14 MT Lundquist: ok
2008/03/16 12:14 Pip Torok is Online
2008/03/16 12:14 MT Lundquist: well we didnt meet this last week
2008/03/16 12:14 MT Lundquist: so there is nothing new to report
2008/03/16 12:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: well nothing public
2008/03/16 12:14 MT Lundquist: however we will be meeting next Saturday when I get back from holiday
2008/03/16 12:15 Brian Livingston: Wonderful. Thank you.
2008/03/16 12:16 Brian Livingston: Code Reorganization:
2008/03/16 12:17 Brian Livingston: Code Reorganization did not eet this week but I do certainly encourage interested parties to hime in on the topi post in the Legislative discussions section of hte forum
2008/03/16 12:17 Brian Livingston: I am going to attempt to hold an inworld meeting this oming Saturday. I'll post hte time in the forums later this week
2008/03/16 12:18 Brian Livingston: Ok, Elections Rules?
2008/03/16 12:19 Beathan Vale: that is all
2008/03/16 12:19 Beathan Vale: no one attended the election meeting last week — so nothing new to report on that front --- we'll meet again aftger this meeting — but there are several good Forum discussions — on the role of the LRF, on the election o fthe Chancellor, and on RA size which bear — I suggest everyone read them
2008/03/16 12:19 Brian Livingston: Wonderful, Thank you.
2008/03/16 12:19 Brian Livingston: RA Process?
2008/03/16 12:19 Beathan Vale: same
2008/03/16 12:20 Brian Livingston: Ok, thank you again.
2008/03/16 12:20 Beathan Vale: I have nothing to add to the discussion in the RA last week
2008/03/16 12:20 Beathan Vale: http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1658
2008/03/16 12:20 Beathan Vale: Pat hahs proposed amendments, which I oppose
2008/03/16 12:20 Beathan Vale: that is all
2008/03/16 12:20 Brian Livingston: Let
2008/03/16 12:21 Brian Livingston: Next is the RA Process Bill. Beathan, do you have anything you would like to present?
2008/03/16 12:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: so you wanna know about the guided tour committee?
2008/03/16 12:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: oh ..
2008/03/16 12:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: you just did that
2008/03/16 12:22 Beathan Vale: nothing new --- again the discussion last week says everything http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1658
2008/03/16 12:23 Brian Livingston: In that case, Pat, if you would like to preset your alternatives and then we will have a brief dicussion of the various points?
2008/03/16 12:23 Brian Livingston: And Sorry TP, ut We will be happy to recieve your report after this agenda item, my mistake :/
2008/03/16 12:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: np
2008/03/16 12:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry to interrupt
2008/03/16 12:23 Bromo Ivory is Online
2008/03/16 12:24 Patroklus Murakami: sure, as i pointed out to brian though this is not the most current version of my amendments
2008/03/16 12:24 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Bromo Ivory (5m)
2008/03/16 12:25 Patroklus Murakami: fortunately the only difference is a point of clarification on the size of the RA i.e. that it applies from next term onwards (and does not affect this current RA)
2008/03/16 12:25 Patroklus Murakami: my first amendment is on paragraph 1 of beathan's ra process bill on 7 day votes
2008/03/16 12:25 Patroklus Murakami: My objection to this part of the RA Process Bill is fairly simple. It's redundant. This is already the rule in operation. I see no great benefit in repeating it in the RA Procedures.
2008/03/16 12:26 Patroklus Murakami: The alternative is much worse though. This introduces the idea of 'excused absences' i.e. the idea that other RA members, who will be political opponents, should get to decide whether an RA members' absence is authorised or not.
2008/03/16 12:26 Patroklus Murakami: This gives the RA members who are able to attend a meeting the option of disenfranchising an RA member who cannot attend the meeting.
2008/03/16 12:26 Patroklus Murakami: This is wide open to abuse and should be rejected.
2008/03/16 12:26 Patroklus Murakami: That's all 🙂
2008/03/16 12:26 Beathan Vale: I recommend voting on this paragraph by paragraph
2008/03/16 12:27 Beathan Vale: and I prefer 1 to alternative 1
2008/03/16 12:27 Sonja Strom: What is the primary reason for allowing 7-day votes?
2008/03/16 12:27 Brian Livingston: I have updated the notecard dispensor to have the updated card fom Pat. Appologies for the mixup folks
2008/03/16 12:27 Sonja Strom: ok, thanks Brian.
2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: i like that we vote in public and we dont want to not be able to tdo things with multiple votes....like when we did the sim bill week before last.. that coudl not have been done if somone didnt vote then
2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: im concerned too wit things like chancellor election etc. where the public wants to know
2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: i am more concerend with that then someone disenfrachiseing
2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: if they cant o be at the meeting then oh well
2008/03/16 12:28 Beathan Vale: but the forum is public as well
2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: but its not the same beathan
2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: these people are here to see things happen
2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: not hear us dsiccus
2008/03/16 12:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: discuss
2008/03/16 12:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: they want to see votes havppen and things take place
2008/03/16 12:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: im adamant that we vote in session
2008/03/16 12:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: for the s citizens
2008/03/16 12:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: does any citizen have input now please?
2008/03/16 12:30 Patroklus Murakami: actually i don't want RA members always to vote in session, there are times when members can't make the meeting for perfectly valid reasons
2008/03/16 12:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: if they dont care then i dont
2008/03/16 12:30 Sonja Strom: I am inclined to agree with ThePrincess? there, unless there is a really good reason to have a 7-day voting time.
2008/03/16 12:30 Brian Livingston: I am not comfortable having to submit to the mery of the R.A. (in gnral, not specifically to my felow reps) to recieve an excused absence
2008/03/16 12:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: well pat of coruse they can have a 7 day if they are not here
2008/03/16 12:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: but if we are here we need to vote
2008/03/16 12:30 Beathan Vale: point of order — if the vote is 3/2 --does the matter pass — or does passage require 4 as if the RA had 7 members?
2008/03/16 12:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: like with the sim bill
2008/03/16 12:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: i think we still need the same passing rules
2008/03/16 12:31 ThePrincess? Parisi: the RA is the same size now,
2008/03/16 12:31 ThePrincess? Parisi: until the SC rules?
2008/03/16 12:31 ThePrincess? Parisi: idk
2008/03/16 12:31 Beathan Vale: I think the sim bill is an example of something that would have bene far better done on the fprums
2008/03/16 12:31 Sonja Strom: The voting for it?
2008/03/16 12:32 Beathan Vale: not necessarily — but poten tially
2008/03/16 12:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan.. you never answered my question about the Chancellor election.. can you imagine that being 7 day vote
2008/03/16 12:32 Dnate Mars: Once quarum is reached, things that require a majority vote to pass require the majority of people present
2008/03/16 12:32 Brian Livingston: Beathan: I believe the same rules apply, where 4 is passing given the RA is still 7 seats.
2008/03/16 12:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: and i wonder about that week before last wihen we did the sim.. we would still be on part A
2008/03/16 12:32 Beathan Vale: I think it was a 7 dat vote last term — no problem
2008/03/16 12:32 Sonja Strom: Thanks Dnate!
2008/03/16 12:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: no last term .. if we were here we had to vote
2008/03/16 12:32 Beathan Vale: thanks Dnate
2008/03/16 12:32 Brian Livingston: Thanks Dnate
2008/03/16 12:33 ThePrincess? Parisi: WHEN WE WERE HERE LAST TERM, WE HAD TO VOTE
2008/03/16 12:33 Beathan Vale: I might be misremembering — but i don't see a problem there
2008/03/16 12:33 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats what i was told ...
2008/03/16 12:33 Beathan Vale: TP — that was a mistake PAt made — once — and then he apologized
2008/03/16 12:33 Brian Livingston: Princess, please do not yell in the meeting.
2008/03/16 12:33 Moon Adamant is Offline
2008/03/16 12:33 ThePrincess? Parisi: well it was in place all session
2008/03/16 12:33 ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry i hit g caps brian
2008/03/16 12:33 Dnate Mars: Usually with 7-day votes that would make it be 4, however the 2 vacant seats cause it to drop to 3
2008/03/16 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: whatever thats what i think
2008/03/16 12:34 Beathan Vale: no — it wasn't — Pat checked and corrected the rul e-- he has said so many times
2008/03/16 12:34 Sonja Strom: true, and apologised more than once too.
2008/03/16 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: well i thought that most of the ssession and i like it that way,
2008/03/16 12:34 Beathan Vale: Dnate — I agree
2008/03/16 12:34 Patroklus Murakami: ty beathan, i think i have clarified that publicly at least three times now 🙂
2008/03/16 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: the point is just that i like it that way.. all im saying
2008/03/16 12:35 Beathan Vale: kk — that is fair TP
2008/03/16 12:35 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree with pat
2008/03/16 12:35 ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks
2008/03/16 12:35 Beathan Vale: but I still prefer the 7 day process — esspicially considering we have live iRL and live in various timezones
2008/03/16 12:35 ThePrincess? Parisi: but beathan you never answered my two example concerns and you and i have disucssed this at least ten times
2008/03/16 12:36 Beathan Vale: and I share Pat's oncerns about the manipulation of exsuing absences
2008/03/16 12:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: gimme a break
2008/03/16 12:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: so the faction votes them out
2008/03/16 12:36 Beathan Vale: TP — I have — I see no problem whatso ever in either bcase
2008/03/16 12:36 Sonja Strom: I don't like the "excused absences" concept because that would become too political. I think either we should allow 7-day votes for everything, like apparently we do now, or require the voters to be present in the meeting (no-show, no vote).
2008/03/16 12:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree sonja
2008/03/16 12:37 Beathan Vale: I think anythign that can be done her can be done in 7 day votes — and all citizens have a chance to watch the process either way
2008/03/16 12:37 MT Lundquist: i dont like excused absences either
2008/03/16 12:37 Brian Livingston: I agreew ith Beahtan on this point
2008/03/16 12:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: no .. you gtell me how the chancellor election looks.. and how week before last looks.. ? answer me..
2008/03/16 12:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: we would have no sim bill passed yet
2008/03/16 12:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: and the chancellor .. we had an audience
2008/03/16 12:37 Sonja Strom: Is there a way we could ask which the majority of citizens would prefer? Maybe we could put this to a referendum?
2008/03/16 12:37 Beathan Vale: TP — and that might not be a bad thing-- that matter felt rushed
2008/03/16 12:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: sounds good to me
2008/03/16 12:38 Bromo Ivory nods to SOnja
2008/03/16 12:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: sonja
2008/03/16 12:38 Beathan Vale: but — I think we wouldhave a sim bill passed
2008/03/16 12:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: LOL.. read the transcripts
2008/03/16 12:38 Beathan Vale: by now — it has been longer then 7 days
2008/03/16 12:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: we did it in five steps
2008/03/16 12:38 Beathan Vale: I like the rulel — quarum require din world, but people who can't attend get to vote on the forums — otherwise we disenfranchise people the voters chose
2008/03/16 12:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree with sonja.. this point for me is about the public i wish they would tell us what they think
2008/03/16 12:39 Sophrosyne Stenvaag is Online
2008/03/16 12:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: so i can be in the RA and never attend a meeting?
2008/03/16 12:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: flubber skitttels
2008/03/16 12:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: i hate it
2008/03/16 12:39 Beathan Vale: TP — and I proposed that process — which wa sugly and confuing — I consider that a failed experiement in RA voting, even though it got things done
2008/03/16 12:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok .. i understand
2008/03/16 12:39 Beathan Vale: my multivote process has bene widely and fairly criticized by the citizens
2008/03/16 12:39 Flyingroc Chung: 7-day votes worked really well before
2008/03/16 12:40 Beathan Vale: agree FR
2008/03/16 12:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok .. i will vote fro your proposal..
2008/03/16 12:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: the first point you got me
2008/03/16 12:40 Beathan Vale: I call the question — on paragrpah 1
2008/03/16 12:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: if the citizens dont care then its fine with me
2008/03/16 12:41 Patroklus Murakami: hmm, shouldn't you take the vote on the amendment first?
2008/03/16 12:41 Sonja Strom: Well, I have to say that not very many people outside the RA commented on this proposal in the Forums. So, maybe it is not that important to them either way.
2008/03/16 12:41 Beathan Vale: we can change it easily if the citizens object — and this will not end inwolrd meetings — we still need a quorum inwolrd
2008/03/16 12:41 Sonja Strom: True Beathan.
2008/03/16 12:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok ill shut up
2008/03/16 12:41 Beathan Vale: no — TP — you are an RA member — never shut up 😉
2008/03/16 12:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
2008/03/16 12:42 ThePrincess? Parisi: only for now
2008/03/16 12:42 Beathan Vale: I move passage of paragrph 1
2008/03/16 12:42 Sonja Strom: ThePrincess?, would you like an ashtray?
2008/03/16 12:42 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/16 12:42 Patroklus Murakami: point of order mr chairman. shouldn't you take votes on the amendments rather than the paragraphs?
2008/03/16 12:42 ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂 no thanks ill pu tit out hun
2008/03/16 12:42 Patroklus Murakami: how do you intend to handle the vote?
2008/03/16 12:42 Sonja Strom: 🙂
2008/03/16 12:43 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Pip Torok (18m)
2008/03/16 12:43 Beathan Vale: OK — I move that we reject all amendments
2008/03/16 12:43 Beathan Vale: to paragraph 1 I mean
2008/03/16 12:43 Brian Livingston is running at a 5 sond lag here... one se, I hae to scroll back.
2008/03/16 12:43 MT Lundquist: second
2008/03/16 12:43 Patroklus Murakami: aah, i see beathan 🙂
2008/03/16 12:43 Sonja Strom is experiencing lag also
2008/03/16 12:43 Beathan Vale: me too
2008/03/16 12:43 ThePrincess? Parisi: oh no sonja
2008/03/16 12:44 Brian Livingston: A motion is on the table to reject all proposed amendments to the RA process bill. An Aye vote is in favor of rejeting hte proposed amendments, ay vote will sustain the amamendments.
2008/03/16 12:44 Beathan Vale: so — move that we reject all amendments and alternatives to paragra ph 1
2008/03/16 12:44 Brian Livingston: nay vote will sustain the amendments*
2008/03/16 12:44 Beathan Vale: BL — only on paragraph 1
2008/03/16 12:45 Beathan Vale: I think we need to consider the other proposals across from their paragraphs
2008/03/16 12:45 Beathan Vale: sorry for breaking the motion as I did
2008/03/16 12:45 Sonja Strom: Are we voting on the motion?
2008/03/16 12:45 Brian Livingston: I agree, was going with the proposal that was seconded. The motion was to reject all amendments, without mention of the specific paragraph
2008/03/16 12:46 Sonja Strom: ok
2008/03/16 12:46 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
2008/03/16 12:46 Beathan Vale: OK — fair enough
2008/03/16 12:46 Brian Livingston: I suggest resbumitting hte otion after this ote. Members, your votes please
2008/03/16 12:46 Patroklus Murakami: but you havent' debated teh amendments
2008/03/16 12:46 Beathan Vale: I did move it that way ...
2008/03/16 12:46 Beathan Vale: aye
2008/03/16 12:46 Patroklus Murakami: are you going to reject all my amendments without debate?
2008/03/16 12:46 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/16 12:46 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
2008/03/16 12:46 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
2008/03/16 12:46 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat
2008/03/16 12:46 Sonja Strom: I think we should go paragraph by paragraph...
2008/03/16 12:46 Brian Livingston: nay
2008/03/16 12:47 Sonja Strom: nay
2008/03/16 12:47 Beathan Vale: 3/2 for aye
2008/03/16 12:47 Beathan Vale: that should speed things up
2008/03/16 12:47 Patroklus Murakami: so the RA doesn't debate proposals from citizens any more?
2008/03/16 12:47 ThePrincess? Parisi: its been on the forum a while pat
2008/03/16 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: shhh
2008/03/16 12:48 Beathan Vale: and RA members can offer amendments from the floor — so Sonja and Brian — if you want to take up any of Pat's amendments, you can repropose them as they come up
2008/03/16 12:48 Sonja Strom: ok
2008/03/16 12:48 Beathan Vale: Pat — I think we have a more efficeint way of handling this — if your amendments have RA support, we will take them up — otherwise, why waste tie on them?
2008/03/16 12:48 Beathan Vale: I move passage of paragraph 1
2008/03/16 12:48 Patroklus Murakami: i think it's a shocking attempt to stifle debate
2008/03/16 12:49 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Gwyneth Llewelyn (19m)
2008/03/16 12:49 Bromo Ivory is less shocked than Pat
2008/03/16 12:50 Yogeswari Padar is shocked and concerned
2008/03/16 12:50 Beathan Vale: there has been plenty of debagte on the forums — we need to make sure the RA wokrs through its agenda as efficiently as possible
2008/03/16 12:50 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Primus Llewellyn (14m)
2008/03/16 12:50 Sonja Strom wonders why the CDSF resigned from the RA
2008/03/16 12:50 Bromo Ivory checks and find a car battery and a transformer explaining why everyone is socked
2008/03/16 12:50 Beathan Vale: so why should we consider something that does not have RA support?
2008/03/16 12:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: so is this meta debate
2008/03/16 12:50 Bromo Ivory notices no difference before and after, SOnja
2008/03/16 12:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: debate about the debate we arent debating
2008/03/16 12:51 ThePrincess? Parisi: productive
2008/03/16 12:51 Jon Seattle: In relation to what Beathan said, I would point out that it is possible that debate (including things that citizen's say) can influence the votes of RA members. In the past we have always allowed citizens to have their say.
2008/03/16 12:51 Beathan Vale: I have mmoved passage of paragraph 1 — is there a second?
2008/03/16 12:51 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/16 12:51 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Primus Llewellyn (18m)
2008/03/16 12:51 Patroklus Murakami decline This Week In Extropia: Week Ending March 23, 2008 from A group member named Sophrosyne Stenvaag.
2008/03/16 12:51 Beathan Vale: Jon — and we will — but only based on what the RA puts forward for debate — the RA has the right and ned to control its own debate
2008/03/16 12:52 Brian Livingston: Membrs, your votes please for passag e paragraph 1
2008/03/16 12:52 Beathan Vale: of course — we now have an open discussion perod for citizens to speak freely as well
2008/03/16 12:52 Beathan Vale: aye
2008/03/16 12:52 Sonja Strom thinks about how the interaction between the RA and non-RA members seems very similar to a couple of weeks ago...
2008/03/16 12:52 Brian Livingston: aye
2008/03/16 12:52 corbusier office chair w/sit target whispers: Angle is: ,,; xyz is: ,,
2008/03/16 12:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
2008/03/16 12:53 Flyingroc Chung: tsk, gwyn disrupting the RA meeting 😉
2008/03/16 12:53 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/16 12:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: she has a sword FR
2008/03/16 12:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: a big knife
2008/03/16 12:54 Beathan Vale: the sword of Justice
2008/03/16 12:54 Beathan Vale: keeping us honest
2008/03/16 12:54 Sonja Strom: I liked Pat's suggested amendment, but it would not have changed things enough for me to vote against paragraph 1 entirely, so "aye."
2008/03/16 12:54 Brian Livingston: Sonja, your ote?
2008/03/16 12:54 Brian Livingston: NM
2008/03/16 12:54 Office Chair, Yellow whispers: Angle is: 0,0,0; xyz is: 0.1,0.0,0.0
2008/03/16 12:55 Brian Livingston: We are taking this paragraph by paragraph, so there will e opportunities for citizens and RA members alike to comment as we proccede and for amendments to be made on speific paragraphs
2008/03/16 12:55 Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles and listens only
2008/03/16 12:55 Delia Lake: just curious here, and i may be mis-reading as i had to step away form the keyboard for a bit. does this conversation mean, for instance, that if a petition had the support of 50 CDS citizens and not the support or interest of the RA, that the petition would not be heard?
2008/03/16 12:55 Beathan Vale: PAragraph 2 will delay passage of legislation --
2008/03/16 12:56 Sonja Strom is glad that there is a member of the justice security team present
2008/03/16 12:56 Beathan Vale: Delia — I have proposed an initiative and referndum process to fix that — but at the moment we have no process for citizen petititons
2008/03/16 12:56 ThePrincess? Parisi: well i think delia that if the citizens cared if we voted in session i would have voted for it
2008/03/16 12:56 ThePrincess? Parisi: but no one ansered me anytime i asked
2008/03/16 12:56 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Parsley Ninetails (18m)
2008/03/16 12:56 Beathan Vale: we are a pure representative democracy atm — so, yes — but RA members would be foolish to disregard such a thing
2008/03/16 12:57 Patroklus Murakami: i'd like to speak against paragraph 2 at some point, if i may
2008/03/16 12:57 ThePrincess? Parisi: i always consider the citizens but honestly i dont get as much input on things as i would like
2008/03/16 12:57 Sonja Strom: I definitely want for us to work on having a referendum and initiative capability in the CDS.
2008/03/16 12:57 MT Lundquist: anything that held the interest of 50 citizens would hold the interest of the RA i'm sure
2008/03/16 12:57 Beathan Vale: I have no strong feelings on paragraph 2 — it tracks RL process and allows the RA to more carefully consider things — so the balance is between speed vs. care
2008/03/16 12:57 Naftali Torok is Offline
2008/03/16 12:57 Delia Lake: this seems to me to be a structural problem that needs to be corrected
2008/03/16 12:58 Brian Livingston: Let's return to paragraph 2. Pat, your thoughts?
2008/03/16 12:58 Beathan Vale: I would like to hear citizne and RA opinions on this one
2008/03/16 12:58 Jon Seattle agrees with Delia
2008/03/16 12:58 Sonja Strom: I think we should let Patroklus speak about what he wants in regard to it.
2008/03/16 12:58 Patroklus Murakami: It's a good idea to consider legislation at more than one RA meeting. In fact that's what usually happens and there's no real need for this bureaucratic way of ensuring that legislation gets a full airing.
2008/03/16 12:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: we are wroing on it deila
2008/03/16 12:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: if you wanna work on a bill ..we can do that
2008/03/16 12:58 Beathan Vale: Delia - -I agree - please work with me aon the initiative Referendum bill
2008/03/16 12:58 Patroklus Murakami: The problem with the proposal is that the loopholes are so large you could drive a truck through them!
2008/03/16 12:58 Bromo Ivory thinks Pat requires no invite to speak his mind
2008/03/16 12:58 Patroklus Murakami: The proposal says this restriction will not apply to 'emergency bills' but what are emergency bills? They're not defined anywhere in our constitution or laws. Who gets to decide what is an emergency and what is not?
2008/03/16 12:58 Patroklus Murakami: bromo, i was invited to speak
2008/03/16 12:59 Bromo Ivory: I know
2008/03/16 12:59 Patroklus Murakami: What if a bill changes substantially between the first and second reading? Presumably this is expected as issues raised at the first reading will lead to alterations. What if that changes more than 50% of the text? Is it a new bill needing a new first reading or not?
2008/03/16 12:59 Bromo Ivory: I meant to be complimentary but it came out wrong - sorry
2008/03/16 12:59 Jon Seattle: Beathan, it would also be a good idea to respect past traditions regarding allowing citizens to speak.
2008/03/16 12:59 Patroklus Murakami: What if an amendment seeks to delete all the text and replace it with a proposal that goes in an entirely new direction? Does that need a second reading too?
2008/03/16 12:59 Beathan Vale: True — iRL the Legislature has the power to declare an emergency — but the definition here could and shoudl be left to the SC 😉
2008/03/16 12:59 Patroklus Murakami: This proposal has not been thought through properly and should be rejected on that basis.
2008/03/16 12:59 Patroklus Murakami: that's all 🙂
2008/03/16 12:59 Beathan Vale: hmm — Pat — I haven't considered the amendment issue
2008/03/16 13:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you for your input, bu t we don t have to vote on the second reading .. it just says we have to have them
2008/03/16 13:00 MT Lundquist: Pat does have a point here
2008/03/16 13:00 Beathan Vale: I am inclined to agree that we should not pass this in its current form — but we need to consider it further
2008/03/16 13:00 Brian Livingston: Pat brings up some very valid points regaring the proposal.
2008/03/16 13:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: so a bill coudl be endlessely stalled by stealth by RA members that might want to distrupt things
2008/03/16 13:00 Gwyneth Llewelyn likes to hear that some people still have good sense in the RA 😉
2008/03/16 13:01 Beathan Vale: So — I move to reintroduce Pat's amendment deleting paragraph 2
2008/03/16 13:01 Alexicon Kurka is Online
2008/03/16 13:01 Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, please disregard my sarcastic comment.
2008/03/16 13:01 Flyingroc Chung: in the past there have been some bills which were both simple and had broad agreement. In these cases I dont know that having 2 sessions to vote for it is effificent.
2008/03/16 13:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: something that your faction worries about
2008/03/16 13:01 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Dodo Alekseev (19m)
2008/03/16 13:01 MT Lundquist: surely we just vote against the para 2 if we dont want it
2008/03/16 13:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: makes sense
2008/03/16 13:01 Naftali Torok is Online
2008/03/16 13:01 Beathan Vale: ok — then I move for a vote on paragraph 2
2008/03/16 13:01 Sonja Strom: second
2008/03/16 13:02 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Parsley Ninetails (12m)
2008/03/16 13:02 Brian Livingston: Members, yoyr ote on Paragraph 2 of the proposal please:
2008/03/16 13:02 Beathan Vale: nay
2008/03/16 13:02 Brian Livingston: your votes*
2008/03/16 13:02 MT Lundquist: nay
2008/03/16 13:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: abstain
2008/03/16 13:03 Sonja Strom: nay
2008/03/16 13:03 Brian Livingston: nay
2008/03/16 13:03 Brian Livingston: 0/4/1, the motiondoes not pass
2008/03/16 13:04 Beathan Vale: Paragraph 3 primarily changes the way legislation is proposed and publicized
2008/03/16 13:04 Brian Livingston: Err, paragarph
2008/03/16 13:04 Brian Livingston: Moving on to Paragraph 3
2008/03/16 13:04 Beathan Vale: brbr — dod needs to be let out
2008/03/16 13:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: where is emergency defined and who decides
2008/03/16 13:04 Beathan Vale: Paragraph 3 is fairly complex and multifaceted
2008/03/16 13:04 Beathan Vale: we should striek the refernece to emergency — as it relates to paragrph 2
2008/03/16 13:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you
2008/03/16 13:05 Beathan Vale: again — this one needs work — we should not pass it yet — but it should be passsed at some point
2008/03/16 13:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: noo its good
2008/03/16 13:05 Brian Livingston: I am not ray about loing a fixed eeting time into the RA procedures
2008/03/16 13:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats the only problem i have with it
2008/03/16 13:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: anyone else?
2008/03/16 13:06 Patroklus Murakami: would any RA members like to reintroduce my amendment three which refers to this paragraph so it can be considered?
2008/03/16 13:06 MT Lundquist: why dont we have a fixed timescale but based on the meeting date
2008/03/16 13:06 Brian Livingston: argh that should have been that I am not razy about paragraph 3, altgh I would like to reconsider Pat's propsal
2008/03/16 13:06 Brian Livingston: regarding paragarph 3
2008/03/16 13:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: what dont you like about it brian?
2008/03/16 13:07 Brian Livingston: It would create a mehanism for RA membrs to alter the agenda on the day of hte meeting, sets out hte responsibility for the initial agenda to the LRA and sets responsible and feasible timeframes ofr publishing hte draft agenda
2008/03/16 13:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
2008/03/16 13:08 Brian Livingston: Err, I misread TP's omment, that is what I do like about pat's proposal
2008/03/16 13:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: np i get it
2008/03/16 13:08 Bromo Ivory is Offline
2008/03/16 13:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: i dont like pats i like beathans
2008/03/16 13:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: its important..
2008/03/16 13:09 Beathan Vale: The prolem with PAt's proposal is that it prevents the RA from controlling its own agenda — and laves that power with the LRA — which has caused terrible problems win both this session and thelast
2008/03/16 13:09 MT Lundquist: i agree with beathan
2008/03/16 13:09 Patroklus Murakami: could i speak in favour of my amendment?
2008/03/16 13:09 Beathan Vale: I would vote for the proposal over Pat's amendment — but I think it sill needs some work
2008/03/16 13:10 Brian Livingston: Go ahead Pat
2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: Setting the agenda for RA meetings is an important and quite tricky task. It would be quite easy, under Beathan's proposal, for the start of RA meetings to be dominated by arguments over the order of the agenda and procedural motions to alter it.
2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: It is impossible, as LRA, to satisfy everyone's desires when setting the agenda. If every faction wants their proposal to go first you're in for an unproductive row every time.
2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: It is right that the LRA, as leader of the most popular faction with the electorate, should have the power to set the agenda for meetings. That is, after all, who the citizens have put into that position!
2008/03/16 13:10 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (btw, did anyone consider extending the meeting time to 6 hours? 😉 )
2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: But it's also right that the RA should have greater powers to make changes if that power is abused if, for example, an LRA keeps an item s/he doesn't want discussed at the bottom of the agenda.
2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: That's why my amendment allows the RA to alter the order of the agenda, at the start of the meeting, by a 2/3 majority.
2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: And it should be a 2/3 majority in my opinion.
2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: If you allow the RA to overrule the LRA with a simple majority you shift the balance of power too far in the opposite direction.
2008/03/16 13:11 Dnate Mars: I disagree, it should be a simple majority
2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: It is virtually impossible to get a majority of seats in our RA with the current election rules. Even with a majority of the votes a faction will not get a majority of seats.
2008/03/16 13:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat we cant function out of paranoia.. thats what i see you consistently doing hun, i dont htink you have to worry about these things.............
2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: That means that the minority parties could, acting in concert, put the majority factions' proposals at the bottom of the agenda at every meeting. That would run counter to the wishes of the voters. The RA should not
2008/03/16 13:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: we can vote out an RA member from a meeting if they are being unruly
2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: enable the frustration of the electoral mandate given by the electorate.
2008/03/16 13:12 Beathan Vale: it is criticalthat the LRA not be able to bury items by putting them last on every agenda — so a rollign order, as I propsoe, is better than LRA control — further — no faction has a majority — so a supermajority is not necessary
2008/03/16 13:12 Dnate Mars: The LRA shouldn't be that powerful, they are just the ones that have to deal with procedure, not have the ablitiy to steer the RA as they see fit
2008/03/16 13:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks for letting us know how you think pat
2008/03/16 13:12 MT Lundquist: i see a simpole majority being sufficient
2008/03/16 13:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: agree Dnante
2008/03/16 13:12 Beathan Vale: given our borda count system --if any faction gets a majority, it will be the equivalent of a supermajority — so a mjority vote is proper
2008/03/16 13:12 Bjerkel Eerie: Princess you love to be unruly adn no noe ever votes you our LOL
2008/03/16 13:13 Beathan Vale: I move to amend the bjill by striking the sentence on emergency leglisation
2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: BJ.. im still waiting!
2008/03/16 13:13 Sonja Strom: Thank you Patroklus. I like Patroklus' amendment, but do agree with Dnate that a simple majority should suffice.
2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: second bethan
2008/03/16 13:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what you're mostly saying is that you don't really care how citizens vote (ie. whom the citizens want in power), but only how the meetings are run?
2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: no we do.. gwyneth
2008/03/16 13:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well,
2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: but the voting system cant go two ways only one
2008/03/16 13:13 Beathan Vale: Sonja — Pat's amendment is esssentially a deletion — how can you like the amendment and like elements of the proposal?
2008/03/16 13:13 MT Lundquist: citizens voted for all RA members
2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: you dont get to count them everyway you can and then do what you want
2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: you're just going to vote on an amendment that will get a party with the majority of the votes no way to implement their election programme
2008/03/16 13:14 Sonja Strom: maybe I should re-read them, sorry...
2008/03/16 13:14 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — no — we care about both, obviously — but in the RA we need to care aobut proceduresnad legialstion
2008/03/16 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes gywn
2008/03/16 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: we are
2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Procedures are more important than the citizen's votes?
2008/03/16 13:14 Patroklus Murakami: indeed gwyn, that's what they're going to do
2008/03/16 13:14 Beathan Vale: in what we proposae and debate on the forums — that is where cirtizen involvement is best maximized and consdered
2008/03/16 13:14 Sonja Strom: there is a lot to keep track of going on at the moment
2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan, I'm shocked, lol
2008/03/16 13:14 Patroklus Murakami: they don't care about the citizens' vote
2008/03/16 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: so if you had one more vote than the next party you tink you get to run CDS
2008/03/16 13:14 Patroklus Murakami: just seats in the RA
2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, we're in the CDS ruled by the media, not by citizen's votes?
2008/03/16 13:14 MT Lundquist: the voting system and the seats in the RA dont work that way Pat
2008/03/16 13:14 Dnate Mars: That is a pretty heavy charge there Pat
2008/03/16 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I'm just clarifying this, since it's definitely a constitutional issue then 🙂 )
2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats what they learn in boot camp ithink
2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: well you are saying your opionon gwyn
2008/03/16 13:15 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — no — we have a representtive democracy here — we are ruled by the RA who are selected by a democratic process
2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: not a fact
2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you beathan i agree
2008/03/16 13:15 MT Lundquist: so doi beathan
2008/03/16 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure it's my opinion. There was a REASON why we have a LRA,
2008/03/16 13:15 Beathan Vale: the citizens are represented by what the RA does — not by how it does it
2008/03/16 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: and a reason why we have a voting system that gets minority parties into the RA
2008/03/16 13:15 Patroklus Murakami: and you're enabling the minorities to frustrate the will of the people. why do you thnk we have an LRA?
2008/03/16 13:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a balance there.
2008/03/16 13:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: You're removing that balance 😀
2008/03/16 13:16 Flyingroc Chung: well, it depends on whether you see the party witht eh highest borda ranking as representative of the people, or the majority of the RA as being the representative of the people.
2008/03/16 13:16 Beathan Vale: so — can we consider my aqmendment to delete the sentence?
2008/03/16 13:16 Brian Livingston: Voting in this proposal is dangerous for th reasons Gwyn and Pat have made
2008/03/16 13:16 Dnate Mars: I disagree, I don't think the current system is really balanced
2008/03/16 13:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: we have a difference in opionon.. you think the LRA has a big power over the CDS, we think he/ she should run the RA procedurally not control the outcomes
2008/03/16 13:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR — what counts is how many citizens wish a certain faction's programme to be implemented. The way they're represented in the RA is less important.
2008/03/16 13:17 Beathan Vale: brb
2008/03/16 13:17 Bromo Ivory is Online
2008/03/16 13:17 Beathan Vale: I vote aye on my amendment
2008/03/16 13:17 Sonja Strom: Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying about negation, but Patroklus' amendment says this "Any alteration to the order of the agenda requires a 2/3 majority of the members present." Why could we not simply change this to be "...majority of the members present."?
2008/03/16 13:17 ThePrincess? Parisi: and with your RA seats you can do that gwyn
2008/03/16 13:17 Jon Seattle Agrees with Gwyn
2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Princess
2008/03/16 13:17 Patroklus Murakami: no TP, we think the LRA power shoudl be balanced, you want to remove any power at all from the most popular faction
2008/03/16 13:17 MT Lundquist: the voting system we have and the RA seat do not support that view gwyn
2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: more than 50% of the people voted on the CSDF
2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah MT
2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: it does,
2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: because the majority of the citizens will pick the LRA,
2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (indirectly, as the "Most Voted Party")
2008/03/16 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: so you want to have your cake and eat it too? i dont have more votes than sonja?
2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: no we had a 2 2 2 1 party seat distribution
2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the LRA sets the agenda 😉
2008/03/16 13:18 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Bromo Ivory (18m)
2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT ‚Äî yes, but more than 50% of the votes were on the CSDF 😉
2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: and an agenda that is voted down is useless
2008/03/16 13:18 Flyingroc Chung: Gwyn, it's essentially the same thing, we assume that the rest of the ra is there as a check against the faction in power railroading policies that may have weak support
2008/03/16 13:18 Patroklus Murakami: the LRA only has one vote TP 🙂 same as other RA members
2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we have a system where the RA gets minority parties a large representation — deliberately
2008/03/16 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: but this is about the big picture not just this election but the future of CDS gywn
2008/03/16 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: dont you understand
2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: *exactly*, Princess
2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh — I do,
2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: remember,
2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: exactly gwyn
2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: thats the system
2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: the current RA procedures were set upin 2004,
2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: when we discussed this issue *precisely*
2008/03/16 13:19 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — and the CSDF withdrew — I have said repeatedly that we need to considere the will of the voters and work to pass the CSDF agenda even wihtout the participation of hte CSDF
2008/03/16 13:19 ThePrincess? Parisi: and they dont work if you have a faction with no candidates
2008/03/16 13:19 Brian Livingston: But the assignment of hte LRA to the highest ranked party is representative of the voters' confidence in that party's platfor and leadership. This proposal would reduce their (the itizens') input and influene on that importnat balane
2008/03/16 13:19 Jon Seattle: FR, there is already a check in place. The RA (as is aparent) can vote to change the rules if it likes.
2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: for a LONG time — and without drama even (weren't we nice?)
2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Brian....
2008/03/16 13:19 Beathan Vale: again — it is the waht that matters, not the how — as long as the how owrks — and it has ceased working, we are doing our jobs
2008/03/16 13:19 Dnate Mars: Ok, but if there is a case where only the ruling party didn't want something, they can denine what the citizens want because of teh control over teh adjenda
2008/03/16 13:20 Beathan Vale: exacly Dnate
2008/03/16 13:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my guys
2008/03/16 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: brian its reduced, but not taken away fully
2008/03/16 13:20 MT Lundquist: i believe we are discussing the para 3 item
2008/03/16 13:20 MT Lundquist: not the role of the LRA
2008/03/16 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: the LRA still has power
2008/03/16 13:20 Beathan Vale: yes — the LRA is only incidental here
2008/03/16 13:20 Patroklus Murakami: my proposal would prevent that kind of abuse dnate. a 2/3 majority could override the LRA
2008/03/16 13:20 Patroklus Murakami: simple majority unbalances the situation
2008/03/16 13:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the faction that won the elections with a majority of the votes is NOT fullfilling their voters' wishes, they're voted out of the RA next elections 😉
2008/03/16 13:20 Flyingroc Chung: I thik the idea of giving minority factions a large representation in the RA was exactly to foster collaboration, rather than allowing the faction in power to force their agenda through.
2008/03/16 13:20 Beathan Vale: yes
2008/03/16 13:21 Dnate Mars: yes, but 2/3rd is too high, a simple majority should suffice
2008/03/16 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: what if the faction with the majority only had one more vote than the next one.. does that still make sense though?
2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Dnate
2008/03/16 13:21 MT Lundquist: simple majority i favour that
2008/03/16 13:21 Beathan Vale: Dnate — yes
2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Think how the votes are allocated
2008/03/16 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: simple majority is fine
2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess: yes
2008/03/16 13:21 Beathan Vale: given our method — a mjoriyy is the equivalent of 1/3
2008/03/16 13:21 Beathan Vale: 2/3 I mean
2008/03/16 13:21 Patroklus Murakami: no it's not!
2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not at all, Beathan!
2008/03/16 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes it is
2008/03/16 13:21 Bromo Ivory: How does one prevent someone from obstructing procedurally - or would we allow that filibuster style?
2008/03/16 13:22 Dnate Mars: I am, and I am thinking of the reason we have set it up the way we have, like FR said, it was done so no party coudl force their adjenda
2008/03/16 13:22 Patroklus Murakami: the minority parties are &*over-rprepresented!
2008/03/16 13:22 Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh guys — do your maths first, please
2008/03/16 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: and what if the LRA was to obstruct that is MY concern
2008/03/16 13:22 Beathan Vale: For a party to win a mjority , it would need supermajority support — so a majority is the equivalent of an electoral 2/3
2008/03/16 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: BALANCE balance balance balance
2008/03/16 13:22 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pat — but they are *deliberately* over-represented; the 'check' comes from the LRA actually....
2008/03/16 13:22 MT Lundquist: that is the voting system if and until it is changed
2008/03/16 13:22 Bromo Ivory: Well with the election method we go for the median opinion not the majority
2008/03/16 13:22 Patroklus Murakami: it's the other way round beathan, a group of minority parties can have a a majority in the RA ona minority vote
2008/03/16 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: this is a voting systme issue you have i agree
2008/03/16 13:23 Patroklus Murakami: that's what's unbalanced about what you propose
2008/03/16 13:23 Patroklus Murakami: do the maths
2008/03/16 13:23 Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's not a "voting issue", the system was set up that way *deliberately*...
2008/03/16 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: jons maths? .. lol
2008/03/16 13:23 Beathan Vale: Pat — but your concern was factioanl infighting — not thefear of a coalition of minority parties
2008/03/16 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi nods
2008/03/16 13:23 Dnate Mars: it is a brithish thing 😛
2008/03/16 13:23 Jon Seattle: Yes, the LRA is not an accedental part of the current system. And I see the push to replace it with one that is far less equitable.
2008/03/16 13:23 Bromo Ivory: There is no issue with the borda/st Legume
2008/03/16 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: no MT is british its not british
2008/03/16 13:23 Beathan Vale: we encourage coalitions with a majority vote — so a 2/3 vote is not necessaru
2008/03/16 13:23 Patroklus Murakami: no beathan a coaltion of minorties is precisely my concern
2008/03/16 13:24 Bromo Ivory: Agreed Beathan - provided we have some sort of anti-filibuster clause
2008/03/16 13:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless you wish to change the election system at the same time you wish to remove the role of the LRA... in that case, I'd be ok with that
2008/03/16 13:24 Patroklus Murakami: one that overrides the majority party due to the oddness of our electoral system
2008/03/16 13:24 MT Lundquist: well that would have more seats in the RA voting together Pat
2008/03/16 13:24 Dnate Mars: But that same collition can shut down the votes anyway
2008/03/16 13:24 MT Lundquist: thats how the syetem works
2008/03/16 13:24 Beathan Vale: it is illegitimate to be afraid of a coalition of minorities — that is the best check on the dictatorship of a majority
2008/03/16 13:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: we are not removing it we are toning it down
2008/03/16 13:24 Flyingroc Chung: the possiblity of a tyranny of the majority is my concern
2008/03/16 13:24 Dnate Mars: you still need the majority to pass anything
2008/03/16 13:24 ThePrincess? Parisi thinks.. hmm dictatorship..
2008/03/16 13:24 Beathan Vale: of course — preventing that should be the SC's job — but I am justgifiably skeptical of the SC here
2008/03/16 13:24 MT Lundquist: i agree with FR and beathan
2008/03/16 13:24 Brian Livingston: If the Llra WAS TUELY MISUISING HIS POWER, i COULD ONLY ASSUME THAT HTE MINORITY PARTIES WOULD WORK TOGEATHER TO ADD ITESM TO THE AGENDA WITH THE 2/3RDS VOTE REUIRED BY THE PROPOSED ALTERNATIVE.
2008/03/16 13:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats what i fear too beathan
2008/03/16 13:24 Patroklus Murakami: so you exchange LRA 'tyranny' wth 'minority party' tyranny. well done!
2008/03/16 13:25 Brian Livingston: ck, sorry for hte caps
2008/03/16 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: exactly brian
2008/03/16 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: yay brian
2008/03/16 13:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh Beathan... that argument, I'm sorry, it's simply out of order! In democracies, majorities decide 🙂
2008/03/16 13:25 Dnate Mars: so, if you have a collition of minorites, they can still stop anything from passing
2008/03/16 13:25 Bromo Ivory: Pat - thats not true - we make it the median opinion as the rule
2008/03/16 13:25 Brian Livingston hates the positioning of his Caps
2008/03/16 13:25 Dnate Mars: what the LRA would do is ensure that nothing gets done
2008/03/16 13:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: What's the "median opinion", Bromo? ^
2008/03/16 13:25 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — and in free societies thsat respect civil rights, we have to respect minority rights — democracy is not enough, we need free democracies
2008/03/16 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: we want the power balanced in the RA and in CDS as a whole
2008/03/16 13:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dnate: and get thrown out of office on the following term
2008/03/16 13:26 Patroklus Murakami: but you're allowing the minority to dictate to teh majority, that's not democracy!
2008/03/16 13:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan, we DO respect minorities. So much, in fact, that they get over-represented in the RA — rdeliberately so!
2008/03/16 13:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: well if you have no candidates you cant get removed from office
2008/03/16 13:26 Bromo Ivory: We do have a weakness where the LRA's faction is in a minority, and also does not command a majority of votes
2008/03/16 13:26 MT Lundquist: 5 seats to 2 is a majority pat
2008/03/16 13:26 MT Lundquist: if the vote went that way
2008/03/16 13:26 Dnate Mars: Sure, so why does the LRA get to force their adjenda with no way for anyone to stop them?
2008/03/16 13:26 Bromo Ivory: Then that faction gets piossed off and resigns
2008/03/16 13:26 Flyingroc Chung: Also, it's silly, given or voting system, to talk about majorities
2008/03/16 13:26 Patroklus Murakami: MT, duh, what about the votes of the citizens?
2008/03/16 13:26 MT Lundquist: for whichever party
2008/03/16 13:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: perhaps you should focus on getting some more ppl to want to voluteer
2008/03/16 13:26 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — how are they resepcted if they are overrepresented, but then disparaged as being minorities
2008/03/16 13:26 Bromo Ivory: So - that is not a good outcome
2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: they voted fro BJ.. !!1
2008/03/16 13:27 Alexicon Kurka is Offline
2008/03/16 13:27 MT Lundquist: then argue to change the voting system
2008/03/16 13:27 Beathan Vale: the RA should be self-governing
2008/03/16 13:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wordplay, Beathan, wordplay 🙂
2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: they voted for BJERKEL
2008/03/16 13:27 Brian Livingston: There is a way to otp them with the proposed alternative, with a 2/3rds ote to add an item to the genda
2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: what about that!!!
2008/03/16 13:27 Patroklus Murakami: 13:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: perhaps you should focus on getting some more ppl to want to voluteer<------- attempt to start a fight? provocation?
2008/03/16 13:27 Dnate Mars: It won't be that hard for a party to get 1/3 of the RA seats, ensuring they are always goin gto get their adjenda and no one else heard
2008/03/16 13:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No,they voted for her party, Princess.
2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: LOL.. !!!
2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes its all MYFAULT
2008/03/16 13:27 Beathan Vale: no — TP — this one is my fault
2008/03/16 13:28 Jon Seattle: what Bromo is trying to say here, I think, is that minorities should have power if they beleive they represent a "silent majority"
2008/03/16 13:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn:
^
2008/03/16 13:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: That sounds... dangerous
2008/03/16 13:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: no its not anyoens fault it is common sense its what we were voted in to do and remain loyal to CDS to do
2008/03/16 13:28 Beathan Vale: OK — can we table this matter and move on — I will try to represent another proposal with proposals
2008/03/16 13:28 Bromo Ivory: No - just a coalition of parties could create a frustrating deadlock
2008/03/16 13:28 Beathan Vale: alternatives and disambiguation
2008/03/16 13:28 Dnate Mars: I think that 2/3 is way to high to be able to overturn the adjenda
2008/03/16 13:28 Brian Livingston: Ok, this issue really isn't looking like it is oming to a point wher we cn vote on it.
2008/03/16 13:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: agree brian
2008/03/16 13:28 Alexicon Kurka is Online
2008/03/16 13:28 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Aragon Porta (19m)
2008/03/16 13:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, Bromo, the wise people in the past *have* devised a check on that situation 😉
2008/03/16 13:28 Beathan Vale: I withdraw paragrpah 3 and will represent
2008/03/16 13:29 MT Lundquist: i would like to vote on para 3
2008/03/16 13:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: second MT
2008/03/16 13:29 Dnate Mars: if we use your logic, why do we still require a majority to pass laws?
2008/03/16 13:29 Beathan Vale: OK — we can vote on para 3
2008/03/16 13:29 Dnate Mars: Gywn, we have many wise people here today too
2008/03/16 13:29 Patroklus Murakami: shouldn't you vote on the amendment first?
2008/03/16 13:29 Beathan Vale: but I would like to vote on my amendment fixing the emergency section firswt
2008/03/16 13:29 Brian Livingston: It i unwise to vote on this proposl until we get a bit more of a onsensus
2008/03/16 13:29 MT Lundquist: ok i second beathan
2008/03/16 13:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye on emergency
2008/03/16 13:30 Yogeswari Padar is Offline
2008/03/16 13:30 Gwyneth Llewelyn: The "logic" here is that while the faction winning a *majority* of votes is allowed to bring up the agenda for discussion, it will seldom have enough votes to pass it and has to compromise with the minority factions...
2008/03/16 13:30 Beathan Vale: aye on removing emergency sentence
2008/03/16 13:30 MT Lundquist: aye on removing emergency
2008/03/16 13:30 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — that is a heck on the amjority agenda — but it is not a check on the majority prevenitng consideration of a minority agenda
2008/03/16 13:31 Ashcroft Burnham is Offline
2008/03/16 13:31 Brian Livingston: Folks, we'e in the middle ofa ote, can we have order please
2008/03/16 13:31 Brian Livingston: aye
2008/03/16 13:31 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
2008/03/16 13:31 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/16 13:31 Jon Seattle is Offline
2008/03/16 13:31 Patroklus Murakami: what are you voting on now? the paragraph? what about the amendment?
2008/03/16 13:31 Dnate Mars: Will the LRA always have teh majority support since they are not directly elected? Even within a party they just get the most votes, not a majority
2008/03/16 13:32 Brian Livingston: the ote is to remove the sentence referenceing hte emergency legislation
2008/03/16 13:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: shh pat we are voting on getting the emergency wording out
2008/03/16 13:32 Beathan Vale: we are voting on the amendment
2008/03/16 13:32 Patroklus Murakami: LOL. seems there's some confusion!
2008/03/16 13:32 Beathan Vale: no — the Ra was not confused
2008/03/16 13:32 Sonja Strom: sorry, i am behind in reading the chat -be here soon
2008/03/16 13:32 MT Lundquist: no pat
2008/03/16 13:33 Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into ThePrincess's hand.
2008/03/16 13:33 Jon Seattle is Online
2008/03/16 13:33 Conover's Flight-Helper? 6.2.5.2 (WEAR ME!): Flight-helper is ready and operational.
2008/03/16 13:33 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Jon Seattle (3m)
2008/03/16 13:34 Beathan Vale: The amendment has passed already - - can we move on?
2008/03/16 13:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: pweeese
2008/03/16 13:34 Beathan Vale: Sonja — can abstain
2008/03/16 13:35 Brian Livingston: We need Snoja's vote either way or her request for 7 day
2008/03/16 13:35 Sonja Strom: OK, I will abstain, because I can't figure out exactly what the vote is for.
2008/03/16 13:36 Naftali Torok is Offline
2008/03/16 13:36 Flyingroc Chung: removing reference to emergency in beathan's paragraph 3
2008/03/16 13:36 Beathan Vale: I move to pass paragaph 3 as amended to remove the sentence about nonemergecny measures
2008/03/16 13:36 MT Lundquist: ok i propose we vote on para 3 now
2008/03/16 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/16 13:36 Brian Livingston: I move to table paragraph 3 to the forums for futrhter discussion
2008/03/16 13:36 Brian Livingston: Ergh.... too late
2008/03/16 13:36 Patroklus Murakami: ahem. what about the amendment to paragraph 3 i proposed?
2008/03/16 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: aww
2008/03/16 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: shhh pat
2008/03/16 13:36 Patroklus Murakami: surely you should take that vote first?
2008/03/16 13:37 MT Lundquist: that was vored out at the start pat
2008/03/16 13:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat you resigned hun
2008/03/16 13:37 Beathan Vale: Pat — already rejected and not reintroduced
2008/03/16 13:37 Patroklus Murakami: point of order mr chairman
2008/03/16 13:37 Sonja Strom: so we are voting on Paragraph 3, without having any changes to it?
2008/03/16 13:37 Naftali Torok is Online
2008/03/16 13:37 Patroklus Murakami: i thought brian reintroduced the amendment to para 3?
2008/03/16 13:37 Beathan Vale: Sonja — no sentence on nonemergency measure is removed
2008/03/16 13:37 Brian Livingston: Pat is orrect, I had reintroduced the paragraph
2008/03/16 13:37 Beathan Vale: I don't think so — at least no second
2008/03/16 13:37 Brian Livingston: err, amendment at hte outset of discussiopn
2008/03/16 13:38 Beathan Vale: no second I think
2008/03/16 13:38 Patroklus Murakami: do the RA procedures require a seconder? i'm not sure they do
2008/03/16 13:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: i didnt hear one
2008/03/16 13:38 MT Lundquist: me neither
2008/03/16 13:38 Beathan Vale: Pat — that is revisionistic history of a Clintonian form
2008/03/16 13:39 Dnate Mars: I am pretty sure they do
2008/03/16 13:39 Patroklus Murakami: well, perhaps you should check?
2008/03/16 13:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry i dont recall
2008/03/16 13:39 Flyingroc Chung: you can poll the Ra member for whther this topic is ready for voting
2008/03/16 13:39 Flyingroc Chung: ra members
2008/03/16 13:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat can you please stop logjamming the RA
2008/03/16 13:39 Flyingroc Chung: if I'm reading th latest procedures
2008/03/16 13:39 Sonja Strom: Thanks FR.
2008/03/16 13:39 Patroklus Murakami: it's a legitimate question. whether you are using the procedures or not
2008/03/16 13:39 Beathan Vale: the RA has always ha second procedure — if the rules don't provide, it specifically, the history of the RA does — and this is anther sign that we need better and more fetailed and complete rules
2008/03/16 13:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: im ready to vote
2008/03/16 13:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: is sonja ready
2008/03/16 13:40 Sonja Strom: yes
2008/03/16 13:40 Beathan Vale: we have moved and seconded a vote on paragrph 4 as amended
2008/03/16 13:40 Brian Livingston: I am not
2008/03/16 13:40 MT Lundquist: para 3
2008/03/16 13:40 Beathan Vale: oops — para 3 I mena
2008/03/16 13:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: i call for a seven day then for brian
2008/03/16 13:40 Beathan Vale: second
2008/03/16 13:41 Dnate Mars: there is only 20 minutes left
2008/03/16 13:41 Sonja Strom: nay
2008/03/16 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: ty dnate
2008/03/16 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
2008/03/16 13:41 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/16 13:41 Beathan Vale: aye
2008/03/16 13:41 Brian Livingston: you can't request a 7 day for another member...\
2008/03/16 13:41 Beathan Vale: lol
2008/03/16 13:09 Beathan Vale: The prolem with PAt's proposal is that it prevents the RA from controlling its own agenda — and laves that power with the LRA — which has caused terrible problems win both this session and thelast
2008/03/16 13:09 MT Lundquist: i agree with beathan
2008/03/16 13:09 Patroklus Murakami: could i speak in favour of my amendment?
2008/03/16 13:09 Beathan Vale: I would vote for the proposal over Pat's amendment — but I think it sill needs some work
2008/03/16 13:10 Brian Livingston: Go ahead Pat
2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: Setting the agenda for RA meetings is an important and quite tricky task. It would be quite easy, under Beathan's proposal, for the start of RA meetings to be dominated by arguments over the order of the agenda and procedural motions to alter it.
2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: It is impossible, as LRA, to satisfy everyone's desires when setting the agenda. If every faction wants their proposal to go first you're in for an unproductive row every time.
2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: It is right that the LRA, as leader of the most popular faction with the electorate, should have the power to set the agenda for meetings. That is, after all, who the citizens have put into that position!
2008/03/16 13:10 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (btw, did anyone consider extending the meeting time to 6 hours? 😉 )
2008/03/16 13:10 Patroklus Murakami: But it's also right that the RA should have greater powers to make changes if that power is abused if, for example, an LRA keeps an item s/he doesn't want discussed at the bottom of the agenda.
2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: That's why my amendment allows the RA to alter the order of the agenda, at the start of the meeting, by a 2/3 majority.
2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: And it should be a 2/3 majority in my opinion.
2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: If you allow the RA to overrule the LRA with a simple majority you shift the balance of power too far in the opposite direction.
2008/03/16 13:11 Dnate Mars: I disagree, it should be a simple majority
2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: It is virtually impossible to get a majority of seats in our RA with the current election rules. Even with a majority of the votes a faction will not get a majority of seats.
2008/03/16 13:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat we cant function out of paranoia.. thats what i see you consistently doing hun, i dont htink you have to worry about these things.............
2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: That means that the minority parties could, acting in concert, put the majority factions' proposals at the bottom of the agenda at every meeting. That would run counter to the wishes of the voters. The RA should not
2008/03/16 13:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: we can vote out an RA member from a meeting if they are being unruly
2008/03/16 13:11 Patroklus Murakami: enable the frustration of the electoral mandate given by the electorate.
2008/03/16 13:12 Beathan Vale: it is criticalthat the LRA not be able to bury items by putting them last on every agenda — so a rollign order, as I propsoe, is better than LRA control — further — no faction has a majority — so a supermajority is not necessary
2008/03/16 13:12 Dnate Mars: The LRA shouldn't be that powerful, they are just the ones that have to deal with procedure, not have the ablitiy to steer the RA as they see fit
2008/03/16 13:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks for letting us know how you think pat
2008/03/16 13:12 MT Lundquist: i see a simpole majority being sufficient
2008/03/16 13:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: agree Dnante
2008/03/16 13:12 Beathan Vale: given our borda count system --if any faction gets a majority, it will be the equivalent of a supermajority — so a mjority vote is proper
2008/03/16 13:12 Bjerkel Eerie: Princess you love to be unruly adn no noe ever votes you our LOL
2008/03/16 13:13 Beathan Vale: I move to amend the bjill by striking the sentence on emergency leglisation
2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: BJ.. im still waiting!
2008/03/16 13:13 Sonja Strom: Thank you Patroklus. I like Patroklus' amendment, but do agree with Dnate that a simple majority should suffice.
2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: second bethan
2008/03/16 13:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what you're mostly saying is that you don't really care how citizens vote (ie. whom the citizens want in power), but only how the meetings are run?
2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: no we do.. gwyneth
2008/03/16 13:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well,
2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: but the voting system cant go two ways only one
2008/03/16 13:13 Beathan Vale: Sonja — Pat's amendment is esssentially a deletion — how can you like the amendment and like elements of the proposal?
2008/03/16 13:13 MT Lundquist: citizens voted for all RA members
2008/03/16 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: you dont get to count them everyway you can and then do what you want
2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: you're just going to vote on an amendment that will get a party with the majority of the votes no way to implement their election programme
2008/03/16 13:14 Sonja Strom: maybe I should re-read them, sorry...
2008/03/16 13:14 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — no — we care about both, obviously — but in the RA we need to care aobut proceduresnad legialstion
2008/03/16 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes gywn
2008/03/16 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: we are
2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Procedures are more important than the citizen's votes?
2008/03/16 13:14 Patroklus Murakami: indeed gwyn, that's what they're going to do
2008/03/16 13:14 Beathan Vale: in what we proposae and debate on the forums — that is where cirtizen involvement is best maximized and consdered
2008/03/16 13:14 Sonja Strom: there is a lot to keep track of going on at the moment
2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan, I'm shocked, lol
2008/03/16 13:14 Patroklus Murakami: they don't care about the citizens' vote
2008/03/16 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: so if you had one more vote than the next party you tink you get to run CDS
2008/03/16 13:14 Patroklus Murakami: just seats in the RA
2008/03/16 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, we're in the CDS ruled by the media, not by citizen's votes?
2008/03/16 13:14 MT Lundquist: the voting system and the seats in the RA dont work that way Pat
2008/03/16 13:14 Dnate Mars: That is a pretty heavy charge there Pat
2008/03/16 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I'm just clarifying this, since it's definitely a constitutional issue then 🙂 )
2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats what they learn in boot camp ithink
2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: well you are saying your opionon gwyn
2008/03/16 13:15 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — no — we have a representtive democracy here — we are ruled by the RA who are selected by a democratic process
2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: not a fact
2008/03/16 13:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you beathan i agree
2008/03/16 13:15 MT Lundquist: so doi beathan
2008/03/16 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure it's my opinion. There was a REASON why we have a LRA,
2008/03/16 13:15 Beathan Vale: the citizens are represented by what the RA does — not by how it does it
2008/03/16 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: and a reason why we have a voting system that gets minority parties into the RA
2008/03/16 13:15 Patroklus Murakami: and you're enabling the minorities to frustrate the will of the people. why do you thnk we have an LRA?
2008/03/16 13:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a balance there.
2008/03/16 13:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: You're removing that balance 😀
2008/03/16 13:16 Flyingroc Chung: well, it depends on whether you see the party witht eh highest borda ranking as representative of the people, or the majority of the RA as being the representative of the people.
2008/03/16 13:16 Beathan Vale: so — can we consider my aqmendment to delete the sentence?
2008/03/16 13:16 Brian Livingston: Voting in this proposal is dangerous for th reasons Gwyn and Pat have made
2008/03/16 13:16 Dnate Mars: I disagree, I don't think the current system is really balanced
2008/03/16 13:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: we have a difference in opionon.. you think the LRA has a big power over the CDS, we think he/ she should run the RA procedurally not control the outcomes
2008/03/16 13:16 Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR — what counts is how many citizens wish a certain faction's programme to be implemented. The way they're represented in the RA is less important.
2008/03/16 13:17 Beathan Vale: brb
2008/03/16 13:17 Bromo Ivory is Online
2008/03/16 13:17 Beathan Vale: I vote aye on my amendment
2008/03/16 13:17 Sonja Strom: Perhaps I misunderstood what you were saying about negation, but Patroklus' amendment says this "Any alteration to the order of the agenda requires a 2/3 majority of the members present." Why could we not simply change this to be "...majority of the members present."?
2008/03/16 13:17 ThePrincess? Parisi: and with your RA seats you can do that gwyn
2008/03/16 13:17 Jon Seattle Agrees with Gwyn
2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Princess
2008/03/16 13:17 Patroklus Murakami: no TP, we think the LRA power shoudl be balanced, you want to remove any power at all from the most popular faction
2008/03/16 13:17 MT Lundquist: the voting system we have and the RA seat do not support that view gwyn
2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: more than 50% of the people voted on the CSDF
2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah MT
2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: it does,
2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: because the majority of the citizens will pick the LRA,
2008/03/16 13:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (indirectly, as the "Most Voted Party")
2008/03/16 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: so you want to have your cake and eat it too? i dont have more votes than sonja?
2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: no we had a 2 2 2 1 party seat distribution
2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the LRA sets the agenda 😉
2008/03/16 13:18 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Bromo Ivory (18m)
2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT ‚Äî yes, but more than 50% of the votes were on the CSDF 😉
2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: and an agenda that is voted down is useless
2008/03/16 13:18 Flyingroc Chung: Gwyn, it's essentially the same thing, we assume that the rest of the ra is there as a check against the faction in power railroading policies that may have weak support
2008/03/16 13:18 Patroklus Murakami: the LRA only has one vote TP 🙂 same as other RA members
2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we have a system where the RA gets minority parties a large representation — deliberately
2008/03/16 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: but this is about the big picture not just this election but the future of CDS gywn
2008/03/16 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: dont you understand
2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: *exactly*, Princess
2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh — I do,
2008/03/16 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: remember,
2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: exactly gwyn
2008/03/16 13:18 MT Lundquist: thats the system
2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: the current RA procedures were set upin 2004,
2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: when we discussed this issue *precisely*
2008/03/16 13:19 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — and the CSDF withdrew — I have said repeatedly that we need to considere the will of the voters and work to pass the CSDF agenda even wihtout the participation of hte CSDF
2008/03/16 13:19 ThePrincess? Parisi: and they dont work if you have a faction with no candidates
2008/03/16 13:19 Brian Livingston: But the assignment of hte LRA to the highest ranked party is representative of the voters' confidence in that party's platfor and leadership. This proposal would reduce their (the itizens') input and influene on that importnat balane
2008/03/16 13:19 Jon Seattle: FR, there is already a check in place. The RA (as is aparent) can vote to change the rules if it likes.
2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: for a LONG time — and without drama even (weren't we nice?)
2008/03/16 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Brian....
2008/03/16 13:19 Beathan Vale: again — it is the waht that matters, not the how — as long as the how owrks — and it has ceased working, we are doing our jobs
2008/03/16 13:19 Dnate Mars: Ok, but if there is a case where only the ruling party didn't want something, they can denine what the citizens want because of teh control over teh adjenda
2008/03/16 13:20 Beathan Vale: exacly Dnate
2008/03/16 13:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my guys
2008/03/16 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: brian its reduced, but not taken away fully
2008/03/16 13:20 MT Lundquist: i believe we are discussing the para 3 item
2008/03/16 13:20 MT Lundquist: not the role of the LRA
2008/03/16 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: the LRA still has power
2008/03/16 13:20 Beathan Vale: yes — the LRA is only incidental here
2008/03/16 13:20 Patroklus Murakami: my proposal would prevent that kind of abuse dnate. a 2/3 majority could override the LRA
2008/03/16 13:20 Patroklus Murakami: simple majority unbalances the situation
2008/03/16 13:20 Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the faction that won the elections with a majority of the votes is NOT fullfilling their voters' wishes, they're voted out of the RA next elections 😉
2008/03/16 13:20 Flyingroc Chung: I thik the idea of giving minority factions a large representation in the RA was exactly to foster collaboration, rather than allowing the faction in power to force their agenda through.
2008/03/16 13:20 Beathan Vale: yes
2008/03/16 13:21 Dnate Mars: yes, but 2/3rd is too high, a simple majority should suffice
2008/03/16 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: what if the faction with the majority only had one more vote than the next one.. does that still make sense though?
2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Dnate
2008/03/16 13:21 MT Lundquist: simple majority i favour that
2008/03/16 13:21 Beathan Vale: Dnate — yes
2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Think how the votes are allocated
2008/03/16 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: simple majority is fine
2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess: yes
2008/03/16 13:21 Beathan Vale: given our method — a mjoriyy is the equivalent of 1/3
2008/03/16 13:21 Beathan Vale: 2/3 I mean
2008/03/16 13:21 Patroklus Murakami: no it's not!
2008/03/16 13:21 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not at all, Beathan!
2008/03/16 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes it is
2008/03/16 13:21 Bromo Ivory: How does one prevent someone from obstructing procedurally - or would we allow that filibuster style?
2008/03/16 13:22 Dnate Mars: I am, and I am thinking of the reason we have set it up the way we have, like FR said, it was done so no party coudl force their adjenda
2008/03/16 13:22 Patroklus Murakami: the minority parties are &*over-rprepresented!
2008/03/16 13:22 Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh guys — do your maths first, please
2008/03/16 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: and what if the LRA was to obstruct that is MY concern
2008/03/16 13:22 Beathan Vale: For a party to win a mjority , it would need supermajority support — so a majority is the equivalent of an electoral 2/3
2008/03/16 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: BALANCE balance balance balance
2008/03/16 13:22 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pat — but they are *deliberately* over-represented; the 'check' comes from the LRA actually....
2008/03/16 13:22 MT Lundquist: that is the voting system if and until it is changed
2008/03/16 13:22 Bromo Ivory: Well with the election method we go for the median opinion not the majority
2008/03/16 13:22 Patroklus Murakami: it's the other way round beathan, a group of minority parties can have a a majority in the RA ona minority vote
2008/03/16 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: this is a voting systme issue you have i agree
2008/03/16 13:23 Patroklus Murakami: that's what's unbalanced about what you propose
2008/03/16 13:23 Patroklus Murakami: do the maths
2008/03/16 13:23 Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's not a "voting issue", the system was set up that way *deliberately*...
2008/03/16 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: jons maths? .. lol
2008/03/16 13:23 Beathan Vale: Pat — but your concern was factioanl infighting — not thefear of a coalition of minority parties
2008/03/16 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi nods
2008/03/16 13:23 Dnate Mars: it is a brithish thing 😛
2008/03/16 13:23 Jon Seattle: Yes, the LRA is not an accedental part of the current system. And I see the push to replace it with one that is far less equitable.
2008/03/16 13:23 Bromo Ivory: There is no issue with the borda/st Legume
2008/03/16 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: no MT is british its not british
2008/03/16 13:23 Beathan Vale: we encourage coalitions with a majority vote — so a 2/3 vote is not necessaru
2008/03/16 13:23 Patroklus Murakami: no beathan a coaltion of minorties is precisely my concern
2008/03/16 13:24 Bromo Ivory: Agreed Beathan - provided we have some sort of anti-filibuster clause
2008/03/16 13:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless you wish to change the election system at the same time you wish to remove the role of the LRA... in that case, I'd be ok with that
2008/03/16 13:24 Patroklus Murakami: one that overrides the majority party due to the oddness of our electoral system
2008/03/16 13:24 MT Lundquist: well that would have more seats in the RA voting together Pat
2008/03/16 13:24 Dnate Mars: But that same collition can shut down the votes anyway
2008/03/16 13:24 MT Lundquist: thats how the syetem works
2008/03/16 13:24 Beathan Vale: it is illegitimate to be afraid of a coalition of minorities — that is the best check on the dictatorship of a majority
2008/03/16 13:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: we are not removing it we are toning it down
2008/03/16 13:24 Flyingroc Chung: the possiblity of a tyranny of the majority is my concern
2008/03/16 13:24 Dnate Mars: you still need the majority to pass anything
2008/03/16 13:24 ThePrincess? Parisi thinks.. hmm dictatorship..
2008/03/16 13:24 Beathan Vale: of course — preventing that should be the SC's job — but I am justgifiably skeptical of the SC here
2008/03/16 13:24 MT Lundquist: i agree with FR and beathan
2008/03/16 13:24 Brian Livingston: If the Llra WAS TUELY MISUISING HIS POWER, i COULD ONLY ASSUME THAT HTE MINORITY PARTIES WOULD WORK TOGEATHER TO ADD ITESM TO THE AGENDA WITH THE 2/3RDS VOTE REUIRED BY THE PROPOSED ALTERNATIVE.
2008/03/16 13:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats what i fear too beathan
2008/03/16 13:24 Patroklus Murakami: so you exchange LRA 'tyranny' wth 'minority party' tyranny. well done!
2008/03/16 13:25 Brian Livingston: ck, sorry for hte caps
2008/03/16 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: exactly brian
2008/03/16 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: yay brian
2008/03/16 13:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh Beathan... that argument, I'm sorry, it's simply out of order! In democracies, majorities decide 🙂
2008/03/16 13:25 Dnate Mars: so, if you have a collition of minorites, they can still stop anything from passing
2008/03/16 13:25 Bromo Ivory: Pat - thats not true - we make it the median opinion as the rule
2008/03/16 13:25 Brian Livingston hates the positioning of his Caps
2008/03/16 13:25 Dnate Mars: what the LRA would do is ensure that nothing gets done
2008/03/16 13:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: What's the "median opinion", Bromo? ^
2008/03/16 13:25 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — and in free societies thsat respect civil rights, we have to respect minority rights — democracy is not enough, we need free democracies
2008/03/16 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: we want the power balanced in the RA and in CDS as a whole
2008/03/16 13:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dnate: and get thrown out of office on the following term
2008/03/16 13:26 Patroklus Murakami: but you're allowing the minority to dictate to teh majority, that's not democracy!
2008/03/16 13:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan, we DO respect minorities. So much, in fact, that they get over-represented in the RA — rdeliberately so!
2008/03/16 13:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: well if you have no candidates you cant get removed from office
2008/03/16 13:26 Bromo Ivory: We do have a weakness where the LRA's faction is in a minority, and also does not command a majority of votes
2008/03/16 13:26 MT Lundquist: 5 seats to 2 is a majority pat
2008/03/16 13:26 MT Lundquist: if the vote went that way
2008/03/16 13:26 Dnate Mars: Sure, so why does the LRA get to force their adjenda with no way for anyone to stop them?
2008/03/16 13:26 Bromo Ivory: Then that faction gets piossed off and resigns
2008/03/16 13:26 Flyingroc Chung: Also, it's silly, given or voting system, to talk about majorities
2008/03/16 13:26 Patroklus Murakami: MT, duh, what about the votes of the citizens?
2008/03/16 13:26 MT Lundquist: for whichever party
2008/03/16 13:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: perhaps you should focus on getting some more ppl to want to voluteer
2008/03/16 13:26 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — how are they resepcted if they are overrepresented, but then disparaged as being minorities
2008/03/16 13:26 Bromo Ivory: So - that is not a good outcome
2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: they voted fro BJ.. !!1
2008/03/16 13:27 Alexicon Kurka is Offline
2008/03/16 13:27 MT Lundquist: then argue to change the voting system
2008/03/16 13:27 Beathan Vale: the RA should be self-governing
2008/03/16 13:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wordplay, Beathan, wordplay 🙂
2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: they voted for BJERKEL
2008/03/16 13:27 Brian Livingston: There is a way to otp them with the proposed alternative, with a 2/3rds ote to add an item to the genda
2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: what about that!!!
2008/03/16 13:27 Patroklus Murakami: 13:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: perhaps you should focus on getting some more ppl to want to voluteer<------- attempt to start a fight? provocation?
2008/03/16 13:27 Dnate Mars: It won't be that hard for a party to get 1/3 of the RA seats, ensuring they are always goin gto get their adjenda and no one else heard
2008/03/16 13:27 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No,they voted for her party, Princess.
2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: LOL.. !!!
2008/03/16 13:27 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes its all MYFAULT
2008/03/16 13:27 Beathan Vale: no — TP — this one is my fault
2008/03/16 13:28 Jon Seattle: what Bromo is trying to say here, I think, is that minorities should have power if they beleive they represent a "silent majority"
2008/03/16 13:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn:
^
2008/03/16 13:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: That sounds... dangerous
2008/03/16 13:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: no its not anyoens fault it is common sense its what we were voted in to do and remain loyal to CDS to do
2008/03/16 13:28 Beathan Vale: OK — can we table this matter and move on — I will try to represent another proposal with proposals
2008/03/16 13:28 Bromo Ivory: No - just a coalition of parties could create a frustrating deadlock
2008/03/16 13:28 Beathan Vale: alternatives and disambiguation
2008/03/16 13:28 Dnate Mars: I think that 2/3 is way to high to be able to overturn the adjenda
2008/03/16 13:28 Brian Livingston: Ok, this issue really isn't looking like it is oming to a point wher we cn vote on it.
2008/03/16 13:28 ThePrincess? Parisi: agree brian
2008/03/16 13:28 Alexicon Kurka is Online
2008/03/16 13:28 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Aragon Porta (19m)
2008/03/16 13:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, Bromo, the wise people in the past *have* devised a check on that situation 😉
2008/03/16 13:28 Beathan Vale: I withdraw paragrpah 3 and will represent
2008/03/16 13:29 MT Lundquist: i would like to vote on para 3
2008/03/16 13:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: second MT
2008/03/16 13:29 Dnate Mars: if we use your logic, why do we still require a majority to pass laws?
2008/03/16 13:29 Beathan Vale: OK — we can vote on para 3
2008/03/16 13:29 Dnate Mars: Gywn, we have many wise people here today too
2008/03/16 13:29 Patroklus Murakami: shouldn't you vote on the amendment first?
2008/03/16 13:29 Beathan Vale: but I would like to vote on my amendment fixing the emergency section firswt
2008/03/16 13:29 Brian Livingston: It i unwise to vote on this proposl until we get a bit more of a onsensus
2008/03/16 13:29 MT Lundquist: ok i second beathan
2008/03/16 13:30 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye on emergency
2008/03/16 13:30 Yogeswari Padar is Offline
2008/03/16 13:30 Gwyneth Llewelyn: The "logic" here is that while the faction winning a *majority* of votes is allowed to bring up the agenda for discussion, it will seldom have enough votes to pass it and has to compromise with the minority factions...
2008/03/16 13:30 Beathan Vale: aye on removing emergency sentence
2008/03/16 13:30 MT Lundquist: aye on removing emergency
2008/03/16 13:30 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — that is a heck on the amjority agenda — but it is not a check on the majority prevenitng consideration of a minority agenda
2008/03/16 13:31 Ashcroft Burnham is Offline
2008/03/16 13:31 Brian Livingston: Folks, we'e in the middle ofa ote, can we have order please
2008/03/16 13:31 Brian Livingston: aye
2008/03/16 13:31 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
2008/03/16 13:31 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/16 13:31 Jon Seattle is Offline
2008/03/16 13:31 Patroklus Murakami: what are you voting on now? the paragraph? what about the amendment?
2008/03/16 13:31 Dnate Mars: Will the LRA always have teh majority support since they are not directly elected? Even within a party they just get the most votes, not a majority
2008/03/16 13:32 Brian Livingston: the ote is to remove the sentence referenceing hte emergency legislation
2008/03/16 13:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: shh pat we are voting on getting the emergency wording out
2008/03/16 13:32 Beathan Vale: we are voting on the amendment
2008/03/16 13:32 Patroklus Murakami: LOL. seems there's some confusion!
2008/03/16 13:32 Beathan Vale: no — the Ra was not confused
2008/03/16 13:32 Sonja Strom: sorry, i am behind in reading the chat -be here soon
2008/03/16 13:32 MT Lundquist: no pat
2008/03/16 13:33 Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into ThePrincess's hand.
2008/03/16 13:33 Jon Seattle is Online
2008/03/16 13:33 Conover's Flight-Helper? 6.2.5.2 (WEAR ME!): Flight-helper is ready and operational.
2008/03/16 13:33 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Jon Seattle (3m)
2008/03/16 13:34 Beathan Vale: The amendment has passed already - - can we move on?
2008/03/16 13:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: pweeese
2008/03/16 13:34 Beathan Vale: Sonja — can abstain
2008/03/16 13:35 Brian Livingston: We need Snoja's vote either way or her request for 7 day
2008/03/16 13:35 Sonja Strom: OK, I will abstain, because I can't figure out exactly what the vote is for.
2008/03/16 13:36 Naftali Torok is Offline
2008/03/16 13:36 Flyingroc Chung: removing reference to emergency in beathan's paragraph 3
2008/03/16 13:36 Beathan Vale: I move to pass paragaph 3 as amended to remove the sentence about nonemergecny measures
2008/03/16 13:36 MT Lundquist: ok i propose we vote on para 3 now
2008/03/16 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/16 13:36 Brian Livingston: I move to table paragraph 3 to the forums for futrhter discussion
2008/03/16 13:36 Brian Livingston: Ergh.... too late
2008/03/16 13:36 Patroklus Murakami: ahem. what about the amendment to paragraph 3 i proposed?
2008/03/16 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: aww
2008/03/16 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: shhh pat
2008/03/16 13:36 Patroklus Murakami: surely you should take that vote first?
2008/03/16 13:37 MT Lundquist: that was vored out at the start pat
2008/03/16 13:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat you resigned hun
2008/03/16 13:37 Beathan Vale: Pat — already rejected and not reintroduced
2008/03/16 13:37 Patroklus Murakami: point of order mr chairman
2008/03/16 13:37 Sonja Strom: so we are voting on Paragraph 3, without having any changes to it?
2008/03/16 13:37 Naftali Torok is Online
2008/03/16 13:37 Patroklus Murakami: i thought brian reintroduced the amendment to para 3?
2008/03/16 13:37 Beathan Vale: Sonja — no sentence on nonemergency measure is removed
2008/03/16 13:37 Brian Livingston: Pat is orrect, I had reintroduced the paragraph
2008/03/16 13:37 Beathan Vale: I don't think so — at least no second
2008/03/16 13:37 Brian Livingston: err, amendment at hte outset of discussiopn
2008/03/16 13:38 Beathan Vale: no second I think
2008/03/16 13:38 Patroklus Murakami: do the RA procedures require a seconder? i'm not sure they do
2008/03/16 13:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: i didnt hear one
2008/03/16 13:38 MT Lundquist: me neither
2008/03/16 13:38 Beathan Vale: Pat — that is revisionistic history of a Clintonian form
2008/03/16 13:39 Dnate Mars: I am pretty sure they do
2008/03/16 13:39 Patroklus Murakami: well, perhaps you should check?
2008/03/16 13:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry i dont recall
2008/03/16 13:39 Flyingroc Chung: you can poll the Ra member for whther this topic is ready for voting
2008/03/16 13:39 Flyingroc Chung: ra members
2008/03/16 13:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat can you please stop logjamming the RA
2008/03/16 13:39 Flyingroc Chung: if I'm reading th latest procedures
2008/03/16 13:39 Sonja Strom: Thanks FR.
2008/03/16 13:39 Patroklus Murakami: it's a legitimate question. whether you are using the procedures or not
2008/03/16 13:39 Beathan Vale: the RA has always ha second procedure — if the rules don't provide, it specifically, the history of the RA does — and this is anther sign that we need better and more fetailed and complete rules
2008/03/16 13:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: im ready to vote
2008/03/16 13:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: is sonja ready
2008/03/16 13:40 Sonja Strom: yes
2008/03/16 13:40 Beathan Vale: we have moved and seconded a vote on paragrph 4 as amended
2008/03/16 13:40 Brian Livingston: I am not
2008/03/16 13:40 MT Lundquist: para 3
2008/03/16 13:40 Beathan Vale: oops — para 3 I mena
2008/03/16 13:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: i call for a seven day then for brian
2008/03/16 13:40 Beathan Vale: second
2008/03/16 13:41 Dnate Mars: there is only 20 minutes left
2008/03/16 13:41 Sonja Strom: nay
2008/03/16 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: ty dnate
2008/03/16 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
2008/03/16 13:41 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/16 13:41 Beathan Vale: aye
2008/03/16 13:41 Brian Livingston: you can't request a 7 day for another member...\
2008/03/16 13:41 Beathan Vale: lol
2008/03/16 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry im being nice
2008/03/16 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: i wont do that anymore
2008/03/16 13:41 Beathan Vale: OK — Brian — can we vote — you can abstain
2008/03/16 13:41 Dnate Mars: she can call for a 7-day vote, it applies to all members
2008/03/16 13:42 ThePrincess? Parisi: im sorry 🙁
2008/03/16 13:42 Beathan Vale: this one member filibuster ability is another problem with our current rules I have not encountered before
2008/03/16 13:43 Beathan Vale: RROs would fix this problem as well
2008/03/16 13:43 ThePrincess? Parisi: well we called for a vote, it was seconded and we voted
2008/03/16 13:43 ThePrincess? Parisi: does it have to be unanimous?
2008/03/16 13:43 Beathan Vale: TP — unfortunately it was not cleaqr waht we were voting on
2008/03/16 13:43 Beathan Vale: Brian needs to call the vote on paragraph 3
2008/03/16 13:43 Sonja Strom: why does there have to be a hurry? Can't we wait a moment for a member of the RA to decide?
2008/03/16 13:43 Beathan Vale: we are runnning out of time again
2008/03/16 13:44 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes thats fine sonja
2008/03/16 13:44 Jon Seattle: (usually one should wait for the chair to respond before voting..)
2008/03/16 13:44 Beathan Vale: 15 min left on what we want the session to run
2008/03/16 13:44 Sonja Strom thinks Jon is correct in that.
2008/03/16 13:44 Beathan Vale: I also think Jon is correct under the current rules
2008/03/16 13:44 Sonja Strom also thinks we can wait for Brian for 15 minutes if needed...
2008/03/16 13:44 MT Lundquist: ok so its for Brian to ask us to vote then
2008/03/16 13:45 Dnate Mars: Well, it has been fun, but I have to go
2008/03/16 13:45 Beathan Vale: bye Dnate
2008/03/16 13:45 Sonja Strom: See you Dnate!
2008/03/16 13:45 ThePrincess? Parisi: bye dnate thanks for coming
2008/03/16 13:45 MT Lundquist: bye denate
2008/03/16 13:45 Brian Livingston: Sorry, I was trying to reference ht RA procedure to take care fof a procedural issues that was brought up.
2008/03/16 13:45 MT Lundquist: np
2008/03/16 13:45 Sonja Strom: Thanks Brian.
2008/03/16 13:46 Patroklus Murakami: "The LRA cannot summarily discard any proposed bill. "
2008/03/16 13:46 Beathan Vale: I have looked at the procedures and I think that they are not that helpful on the current procdural issues
2008/03/16 13:46 Brian Livingston: I a going to call the ote. The votei son hte amended Paragraph 3
2008/03/16 13:46 Patroklus Murakami: i think you should hold a vote on my amendment, if only to be clear that you have legally rejected it 🙂
2008/03/16 13:47 Beathan Vale: aye
2008/03/16 13:47 Beathan Vale: thanks Brian
2008/03/16 13:47 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
2008/03/16 13:47 Brian Livingston: embers, your vottes please:
2008/03/16 13:47 ThePrincess? Parisi: the spin
2008/03/16 13:47 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
2008/03/16 13:47 Sonja Strom: nay
2008/03/16 13:47 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/16 13:47 Brian Livingston: nay
2008/03/16 13:48 Beathan Vale: Ok — as we have seen at every session so far this year — Paragrph 4 is far and away the most important proposal here
2008/03/16 13:48 Beathan Vale: We need better more complete rules than we have
2008/03/16 13:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: agreed beathan
2008/03/16 13:48 Beathan Vale: The current procedure is a mess — and as a result we get all tangled up on ourselves
2008/03/16 13:48 Beathan Vale: this will streamline things by providing much needed clarity and transparency to RA procedures
2008/03/16 13:48 Beathan Vale: that is all
2008/03/16 13:49 Sonja Strom: I have a question about it.
2008/03/16 13:49 Flyingroc Chung: as a practical matter, if no one is willing to read a short notecard and follow the rules set in them, who is going to read 200 pages and follow *those* rules?
2008/03/16 13:49 Patroklus Murakami: i'd like to oppose this paragraph, if anyone would liek to reintroduce my amendment 4 i'd appreciate it 🙂
2008/03/16 13:49 Sonja Strom: Is the RRO referenced, the version for small organisations?
2008/03/16 13:49 ThePrincess? Parisi: oh i have asked that the rules for the RA be posted in the room ..
2008/03/16 13:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: that was refused by pat i submitted a bill to that effect even and it was ignored
2008/03/16 13:50 Brian Livingston: I would like to reintrduce Pat's Proposed amendment, any seconds?
2008/03/16 13:50 Beathan Vale: No — but I would take such a reference as a friednly amendment
2008/03/16 13:50 Patroklus Murakami: 13:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: that was refused by pat i submitted a bill to that effect even and it was ignored<----------provocaton? trying to get a rise?
2008/03/16 13:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: i asked that for us and for the observing citizens that RA rules be posted in the room .. and the PIO take carge
2008/03/16 13:50 Sonja Strom: Brian, I second
2008/03/16 13:50 Beathan Vale: Brian — Pat's amendment here os crazy — it is a Constittuional change to resolve a procedural problem
2008/03/16 13:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: stop being a spin monkey pat.. gimme a break.. look in the morror
2008/03/16 13:51 Beathan Vale: stop the sniping folks please
2008/03/16 13:51 Patroklus Murakami: let's keep things civil, please 🙂
2008/03/16 13:51 Brian Livingston: However, I think it is worth considering all alternatives before making sweeping changes to our procedures
2008/03/16 13:51 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol!
2008/03/16 13:51 Beathan Vale: OK --
2008/03/16 13:51 Beathan Vale: let's vote on Pat's amendment
2008/03/16 13:51 Brian Livingston: No,l let's discuss it
2008/03/16 13:51 Patroklus Murakami: hold on, i haven't spoken on it yet
2008/03/16 13:51 Beathan Vale: no need — let's vote
2008/03/16 13:51 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
2008/03/16 13:51 Beathan Vale: I call for a vote
2008/03/16 13:51 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
2008/03/16 13:51 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/16 13:52 MT Lundquist: second
2008/03/16 13:52 Patroklus Murakami: gosh, fascism in action
2008/03/16 13:52 ThePrincess? Parisi: second for a vote
2008/03/16 13:52 Sonja Strom: Would it be possible for us to say what we would like as an RA, even if we could not change the consititution?
2008/03/16 13:52 MT Lundquist: i read it pat
2008/03/16 13:52 MT Lundquist: dont need you to read it out again
2008/03/16 13:52 ThePrincess? Parisi: did you quit so you can go on griefering the RA
2008/03/16 13:52 Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to hear Sonja
2008/03/16 13:52 Beathan Vale: Sonja — no — Pat's amendment is a Constititonal change tghat has already been fully deated on the forums
2008/03/16 13:52 Patroklus Murakami: just close your ears to any arguments you don't like
2008/03/16 13:52 Jon Seattle would like to hear Sonja also
2008/03/16 13:52 ThePrincess? Parisi: kk pat
2008/03/16 13:53 MT Lundquist: no i make my mind up based on discussion
2008/03/16 13:53 Patroklus Murakami: i have new arguments not presented on the forums
2008/03/16 13:53 MT Lundquist: i read the forums
2008/03/16 13:53 Beathan Vale: oteherwise it is meaningless - a mere "sense of the RA" mtion
2008/03/16 13:53 Sonja Strom: Let's let Patroklust talk about it, as a citizen...
2008/03/16 13:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: please talk sonja
2008/03/16 13:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: omg
2008/03/16 13:54 Brian Livingston: We ar realy going to blok citizens from discussion in the RA?
2008/03/16 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: give him a set length of time then
2008/03/16 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: no its fine .. just set the time
2008/03/16 13:54 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
2008/03/16 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: he didnt let them
2008/03/16 13:54 Beathan Vale: Brian — if tghe discussion gets us no where — we should put it off until the open discussion period
2008/03/16 13:54 Sonja Strom: All I asked was, even if we do not have the ability to make a constitutional change, could we make a statement of our preference?
2008/03/16 13:54 Beathan Vale: this discussion will get us nowhere — I guarantee it
2008/03/16 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: wait for AOB
2008/03/16 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
2008/03/16 13:54 Beathan Vale: Sonja — what good would that do?
2008/03/16 13:54 Jon Seattle: Sonja, yes you do.
2008/03/16 13:54 Sonja Strom: It is a "yes/no" question.
2008/03/16 13:54 Bjerkel Eerie contemplates a time limited gag order
2008/03/16 13:55 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes you can speak sonja
2008/03/16 13:55 Patroklus Murakami: you might hear another point of view? it might change your mind 🙂
2008/03/16 13:55 Flyingroc Chung: I'd like to say while it's the CSDF's damn fault that they are not represented in this RA, it is a matter of fairness that their voice still be heard.
2008/03/16 13:55 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol BJ
2008/03/16 13:55 Sonja Strom agrees with Flyingroc.
2008/03/16 13:55 Beathan Vale: I also agree — but the question is when are their voices best heard — I think they are best heard at the open discussion period
2008/03/16 13:56 Brian Livingston: After voting has been completed on the bproposal?
2008/03/16 13:56 Beathan Vale: Brian — yes — the debate had already happended - a mjority of the RA is ready to vote
2008/03/16 13:56 Patroklus Murakami: yes. best to listen after the fact 🙂
2008/03/16 13:56 Beathan Vale: we should vote
2008/03/16 13:56 MT Lundquist: i agree we are here to vote
2008/03/16 13:56 Brian Livingston: In that ase, we should put off voting n this proposal and table it until next week. Othjerwise there is little point to putting disussion off until AOB as the deccision will haveben made
2008/03/16 13:56 MT Lundquist: the discussion for ra members has happened
2008/03/16 13:57 MT Lundquist: at least for this ra memebr
2008/03/16 13:57 Sonja Strom: Are we running out of time?
2008/03/16 13:57 Beathan Vale: the sessions should be used for voting and for some inworld issue exploration at the end — the forums for debate — otherwise our sessions will last for ever
2008/03/16 13:57 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree beathan
2008/03/16 13:57 MT Lundquist: agreed
2008/03/16 13:57 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I disagree *totally*.
2008/03/16 13:57 ThePrincess? Parisi: we read and use the forums.. then come here an d vote
2008/03/16 13:57 Patroklus Murakami: i could have said all i have to say by now.... if you'd just let me speak 🙁
2008/03/16 13:57 Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's having the media deciding issues, not the elected representatives.
2008/03/16 13:57 ThePrincess? Parisi: karma baby
2008/03/16 13:57 Perplexity Peccable is Online
2008/03/16 13:58 Brian Livingston: This is disgrceful, but a motion has been made an seconded, so my hands are tieed
2008/03/16 13:58 Beathan Vale: no — its having elected reps deciding issues aftger paying attention to the media — which is exactly the right way to do things
2008/03/16 13:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree beathan ok
2008/03/16 13:58 Beathan Vale: aye
2008/03/16 13:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
2008/03/16 13:58 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/16 13:58 Patroklus Murakami: but ensuring we silence those we don't want to hear...
2008/03/16 13:58 notetaker 2.0.1: Script run-time error
2008/03/16 13:58 notetaker 2.0.1: Stack-Heap? Collision
2008/03/16 13:58 Brian Livingston: Members, we are voting on the proposed amendment to the Proposal put forth by Pat
2008/03/16 13:58 Bromo Ivory is Offline
2008/03/16 13:58 MT Lundquist: when have you ever been silent pat
2008/03/16 13:59 Beathan Vale: Pat — you have had and will had your ability to speak to your heart's content
2008/03/16 13:59 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/16 13:59 Beathan Vale: Oops
2008/03/16 13:59 Brian Livingston: Members, your votes please:
2008/03/16 13:59 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
2008/03/16 13:59 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/16 13:59 Brian Livingston: nay
2008/03/16 13:59 Beathan Vale: Pat's amendmdnt?
2008/03/16 13:59 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/16 13:59 Beathan Vale: nay
2008/03/16 13:59 Flyingroc Chung: lol
2008/03/16 13:59 Beathan Vale: now the RA is confused I think
2008/03/16 13:59 Beathan Vale: let's setep back
2008/03/16 13:59 Flyingroc Chung: what does aye mean?
2008/03/16 13:59 ThePrincess? Parisi: ahhuh?
2008/03/16 13:59 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
2008/03/16 13:59 Sonja Strom: What Brian said is correct.
2008/03/16 13:59 Brian Livingston: Agreed
2008/03/16 14:00 Beathan Vale: We are voting on Pat's amendment, — I vote nay
2008/03/16 14:00 Sonja Strom: Flyingroc, it was about Pat's amendment.
2008/03/16 14:00 MT Lundquist: nay then
2008/03/16 14:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: i thouht he just asked us to vote over
2008/03/16 14:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
2008/03/16 14:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: nay
2008/03/16 14:00 Brian Livingston: For the sake of clarity... The vote is on Pat's amendment. An aye vote is in favor of hte amndment, a nay vote is against
2008/03/16 14:00 Flyingroc Chung: aye — agree with pat's amendment?
2008/03/16 14:00 MT Lundquist: nay
2008/03/16 14:00 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/16 14:00 Brian Livingston: aye
2008/03/16 14:01 Beathan Vale: and — to move things on — I accept Sonja's amendment as a friendly amendment
2008/03/16 14:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/16 14:01 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/16 14:01 Flyingroc Chung: it's 2 pm
2008/03/16 14:01 Flyingroc Chung: bye
2008/03/16 14:01 Beathan Vale: bye FR
2008/03/16 14:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: vbye FR thanks
2008/03/16 14:01 MT Lundquist: bye fr
2008/03/16 14:01 Sonja Strom: bye FR, see you!
2008/03/16 14:01 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye bye!
2008/03/16 14:01 Delia Lake: bye FR
2008/03/16 14:01 Gwyneth Llewelyn: take care 🙂
2008/03/16 14:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: thanks
2008/03/16 14:02 Brian Livingston: It is 2 PM, and the RA did affirm to tie up business by 2 PM.
2008/03/16 14:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
2008/03/16 14:02 Beathan Vale: OK — let's table this work a week — but have a 10 minute open discussion period to conclude
2008/03/16 14:02 MT Lundquist: can i suggest we continue this agenda next meeting
2008/03/16 14:03 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/16 14:03 Beathan Vale: that will let Pat debate this issue
2008/03/16 14:03 Sonja Strom: ok
2008/03/16 14:03 Beathan Vale: and after than — an election meeting
2008/03/16 14:03 Patroklus Murakami: what issue? the paragraph you already passed without debate?
2008/03/16 14:03 Beathan Vale: at which many of these RA size and LRA issues can be continued to be discussed
2008/03/16 14:03 Bromo Ivory is Online
2008/03/16 14:03 Beathan Vale: Pat — we did not pass 4 — we rejected your amendment and tabled it to next week
2008/03/16 14:04 Patroklus Murakami: sorry, missed that 🙂
2008/03/16 14:04 Beathan Vale: now — because we have an open discussion period (finally) — you can ambush us — so ambush away
2008/03/16 14:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: i sell sheilds to go withtogas .. we are ook
2008/03/16 14:04 Patroklus Murakami: i have nothing to add
2008/03/16 14:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
2008/03/16 14:05 Sonja Strom: LOL
2008/03/16 14:05 MT Lundquist: lol
2008/03/16 14:05 Patroklus Murakami: you've already made up your minds so what's the point?
2008/03/16 14:05 MystiTool? HUD 1.0.22: Entering chat range: Bromo Ivory (18m)
2008/03/16 14:05 Beathan Vale: ok then ---
2008/03/16 14:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, for the record, you guys are seriously worrying me. You're basically subverting all the values we held as important. 1) Discussion on the CDS issues are to be made in the media, regardless of who the citizens elected
2008/03/16 14:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) discussions on the RA are kept to a minimum
2008/03/16 14:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: then too bad you quit..
2008/03/16 14:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: if you cared why did you quit
2008/03/16 14:06 Patroklus Murakami: we gave our reason TP. i refer you to my resignation post 🙂
2008/03/16 14:06 Beathan Vale: I don't see this as subversive at all
2008/03/16 14:06 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) instead of making the RA work to reflect what a MAJORITY of citizens wish, you subvert the process to allow MINORITIES to go ahead with whatever they please
2008/03/16 14:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok ill read that pat
2008/03/16 14:06 Beathan Vale: but 00 I would be gald to hear the reasons
2008/03/16 14:06 MT Lundquist: me neither i agree with Beathan
2008/03/16 14:07 Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's totally subversive, Beathan!You simply don't care what the citizens have voted for!
2008/03/16 14:07 MT Lundquist: they voted for 4 partys
2008/03/16 14:07 Gwyneth Llewelyn: What will be the point in running for elections? Decide everyting on the forums...
2008/03/16 14:07 You decline Alpine Meadow, Alpine Meadow (119, 125, 82) from A group member named Arria Perreault.
2008/03/16 14:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: welli will post about a party with a majority then pulling out .. and you worry about us.. your faction is subversive to hve ppl for you.. vote for you .. and then QUIT
2008/03/16 14:07 Beathan Vale: I think this sets up the RA to listen and learn the issues == then efficiently vote on measures based on that — then have an open discussion period for citizens who want to interact with the RA inworld
2008/03/16 14:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: you dont have anyone run
2008/03/16 14:07 Beathan Vale: it is an imprivement — supproting those principels — not the opposite
2008/03/16 14:07 Patroklus Murakami: 14:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: welli will post about a party with a majority then pulling out .. and you worry about us.. your faction is subversive to hve ppl for you.. vote for you .. and then QUIT<--------blame the victims
2008/03/16 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: thnk you for opinion though
2008/03/16 14:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Those vague statements are all very fine and clear, Beathan, and of course I agree with them
2008/03/16 14:08 Bromo Ivory: Pat if you resigned, you are hardly a victim
2008/03/16 14:08 MT Lundquist: victims!!!!!
2008/03/16 14:08 MT Lundquist: lol
2008/03/16 14:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess — session after session, you pushed (personally) for the LRA to get out of the RA
2008/03/16 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol.. the CSDF spin.. thnk you for your comments on me and the continuous attacks
2008/03/16 14:08 Beathan Vale: free from RA discusssions are wasteful — open discussion periods and the forums allow the RA to be effiecient AND respond to the citizens
2008/03/16 14:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: now they're out you accuse them
2008/03/16 14:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
2008/03/16 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: PROVE THAT@ GWYEN.. WHT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT
2008/03/16 14:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what do you want? 🙂
2008/03/16 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: THAT IS A LIE
2008/03/16 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: YOU LIAR
2008/03/16 14:08 Patroklus Murakami: bromo, you recall the playground bullies after the RA meeting? you didn't think that what cool at the time
2008/03/16 14:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: omg
2008/03/16 14:09 Beathan Vale: also, I think that the RA needs to pay attention tot he vote of the cigtizens — including the support given to other parties' platforms
2008/03/16 14:09 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I've touched a sensible point, I see 🙂
2008/03/16 14:09 Jon Seattle agrees with Gwyn 100% on this
2008/03/16 14:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: YOU ARE A LIAR.. YOU SHOW ME ONE LINE OF CHAT TO GET PAT OUT LRA
2008/03/16 14:09 Bromo Ivory: Pat, are you saying you were bullied into resigning?
2008/03/16 14:09 Brian Livingston: Umm, let's calm this down a it??
2008/03/16 14:09 Beathan Vale: well — this is a bit much
2008/03/16 14:09 Bromo Ivory: OK - I will be quiet
2008/03/16 14:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: jon you are worng too
2008/03/16 14:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: so you caem here to attack us and me
2008/03/16 14:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you
2008/03/16 14:09 Sonja Strom: That is a fairly strong accusation...
2008/03/16 14:09 Patroklus Murakami: i have already posted about the harrassment i received. bromo, you witnessed soem of teh worst of it
2008/03/16 14:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: i aprrectiate that
2008/03/16 14:10 Jon Seattle: I don't see that I have attacked anyone at all.
2008/03/16 14:10 Beathan Vale: I admit I had drafta no confidence vote proposal — but not proposed it — as far as I know — that is the extent of the RA challenge to PAt personally
2008/03/16 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: harrasment.. lol
2008/03/16 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: what harassement did I GET?
2008/03/16 14:10 Gwyneth Llewelyn: People can leave of their own free will when they're not liked, Beathan
2008/03/16 14:10 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — true
2008/03/16 14:10 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that's what happened.
2008/03/16 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: i like you pat, a LOT
2008/03/16 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: i tried to get you to work with me
2008/03/16 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: over and over
2008/03/16 14:10 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So will you deny your accusations of "blocking the process"??
2008/03/16 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: you were rude and mean to me
2008/03/16 14:10 Beathan Vale: and I think that the voters need to be protected and respected — and they voted for the CSDF platform — so we need to work from it even without the CSDF
2008/03/16 14:11 Patroklus Murakami: like i say. my reasons have been outlined very clearly on the forums. i don't relish being held to a kangaroo court by the bullies in this meeting
2008/03/16 14:11 Beathan Vale: BUT — we need to have a better procedure so we can get anything done
2008/03/16 14:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: well i knwo leon quit and then you didnt wanna be here with only you in CSDF
2008/03/16 14:11 MT Lundquist: Pat it was you who was the bully
2008/03/16 14:11 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, that's another issue, Beathan, and I'm sure everybody agrees with that
2008/03/16 14:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: sad that your prty hs so much support and no cndidate
2008/03/16 14:11 Sonja Strom: oh, Pat...
2008/03/16 14:11 MT Lundquist: sorry to say that but as you bring it up
2008/03/16 14:11 Patroklus Murakami: you know nothing TP. that's inaaccurate
2008/03/16 14:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: pat is the bully
2008/03/16 14:11 Jon Seattle: Beathan, are you now the expert on the CSDF plarform? Even though you seem rather opposed to much of what we do?
2008/03/16 14:11 MT Lundquist: and bullies dont like it when the little folks fight back
2008/03/16 14:11 Beathan Vale: well — the RA wasfull of Bullies — it was like a room full of bull mooses bellowing at and charging each other
2008/03/16 14:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: you did it to michel and now you wanna do it to me
2008/03/16 14:12 Sonja Strom: I think we should not be calling each other bullies.
2008/03/16 14:12 Beathan Vale: Jon — I resepct the voters
2008/03/16 14:12 Patroklus Murakami: 14:11 MT Lundquist: Pat it was you who was the bully<----- blame the victim
2008/03/16 14:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: i was in tears and about to quit also.. cos of what you did
2008/03/16 14:12 Bromo Ivory: Pat, you are not a victim
2008/03/16 14:12 Beathan Vale: I think we should all just put them on the table amd measure — then move on to iportant things
2008/03/16 14:12 MT Lundquist: victim!!! what victim Pat
2008/03/16 14:12 Bromo Ivory: even though you desperately want to be one
2008/03/16 14:12 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that seems reasonable, Beathan 🙂
2008/03/16 14:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: let us let you explain that pat
2008/03/16 14:12 Bjerkel Eerie feels like a kid sitting in he back seat of the car listening to durnken parents fight over which road to the store is the quickest
2008/03/16 14:12 MT Lundquist: burning martyr i smeel
2008/03/16 14:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol BJ
2008/03/16 14:12 Beathan Vale: My God — It is as if Hillary Clinton's personality has been transplanted into all of us — gasp — how godawful is that?
2008/03/16 14:12 MT Lundquist: smell
2008/03/16 14:13 Jon Seattle: Yes, as far as I can see Pat, nad our delegation, was harrassed. And I think that freezes out others who wish to participate.
2008/03/16 14:13 Patroklus Murakami: well, if you're all happy with your conduct. that's fine
2008/03/16 14:13 Ashcroft Burnham is Online
2008/03/16 14:13 Bromo Ivory: Jon, I was harassed worse last term. Please - we are disrupting the meetin as well as all the kettles in the room calling others black
2008/03/16 14:13 Patroklus Murakami: i've apolologised publicly for my part in the problems.
2008/03/16 14:13 Beathan Vale: Pat — I have reviewed all the transcripts — and other than a snide coment about LRA fiat — I have founf nothing I did that I find in the last regreattable
2008/03/16 14:14 MT Lundquist: Thats why we want Roberts rules pat
2008/03/16 14:14 Patroklus Murakami: bromo, you weren't harrassed at all. your work was criticised
2008/03/16 14:14 Jon Seattle: Bromo, you made all kinds of wild accurations last term , calling people "racist" etc.
2008/03/16 14:14 Bromo Ivory: Well, Pat
2008/03/16 14:14 Beathan Vale: agrees with the CSDF here
2008/03/16 14:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: blame us then fine
2008/03/16 14:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: we ruined your faction
2008/03/16 14:14 Bromo Ivory: Jon - I take issue to that characterization. See you guys later
2008/03/16 14:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: bhooo hooo
2008/03/16 14:14 Bromo Ivory is Offline
2008/03/16 14:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: night bromo
2008/03/16 14:14 Jon Seattle: Bromo, you posted that in the forum.
2008/03/16 14:15 Patroklus Murakami: 14:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: bhooo hooo<--------nice. bullying?
2008/03/16 14:15 Sonja Strom: Is there any other member of the public that has something they would like to bring up?
2008/03/16 14:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Guys... in civilised organisations, people that are thoroughly criticised regarding their work, and accused of wishing all power, have just one option left: to resign
2008/03/16 14:15 Beathan Vale: so — the voting off the island has begun ..
2008/03/16 14:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: your constituants need to find out who your candidates are next time, i fear you hve none
2008/03/16 14:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's what the CSDF members did
2008/03/16 14:15 MT Lundquist: do you intend to copy allour statements Pat
2008/03/16 14:15 Brian Livingston: Ok, I am calling an end to this discussion period as it seems pretty obvious it has gone past the point of being for hte good of the DS.
2008/03/16 14:15 Sonja Strom: Thanks
2008/03/16 14:15 MT Lundquist: i agree with Brian
2008/03/16 14:15 Patroklus Murakami: do you intend to censor my commentary MT?
2008/03/16 14:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: LOL.. and then accuse the opponent of teh same
2008/03/16 14:15 Beathan Vale: Gwyn — no — they can also stay engaged and work to solve the problems — stadning above tghe fray and accusations — that is what the SP has done
2008/03/16 14:15 MT Lundquist: no its already in the record pat
2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: well gwyen.. i think in civilized coutnrys little boys dont take their marbles and go home
2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: they stickit out
2008/03/16 14:16 Brian Livingston: I think this conversation is valuable but outside of hte scope of the legislative body
2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: for the peopel who voted for them
2008/03/16 14:16 Beathan Vale: I agree
2008/03/16 14:16 Sonja Strom: This conversation can continue outside of the RA meeting, if its participants want to continue it...
2008/03/16 14:16 Beathan Vale: it's been ten minutes
2008/03/16 14:16 MT Lundquist: i agree to
2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you brian
2008/03/16 14:16 Beathan Vale: I move to adjourn
2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/16 14:16 Patroklus Murakami: oh i see. you want me to stay and do all the work while you continue to harrass?
2008/03/16 14:16 MT Lundquist: second
2008/03/16 14:16 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/16 14:16 Brian Livingston: seconded
2008/03/16 14:16 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/16 14:16 Patroklus Murakami: not a good deal 🙂
2008/03/16 14:16 Brian Livingston: aye
2008/03/16 14:16 Beathan Vale: aye
2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: i didnt harrass you i asked you for fairness and you refursed
2008/03/16 14:16 Sonja Strom: Thanks for being here everybody!!
2008/03/16 14:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: thankyou sonja
2008/03/16 14:17 Sonja Strom: Bye bye.
2008/03/16 14:17 ThePrincess? Parisi: bye
RA meeting: March 24, 2008
————————————
-Commerce Commission
– Tour Commission
-Election Rules
-RA Process
Summary
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
===
[12:08] Beathan Vale notes plans regarding RA operating methods.
[12:14] Jamie Palisades sworn in as RA member.
[12;16] Jamie Palisades’ designation as LRA noted.
[12:20] Clarification of RA process rules modified at last RA meeting.
[12:26] Report from Moon Adamant re 4th CDS sim.
[12:42] Proposal on election rule reform (change regarding faction ‘elimination’).
— Motion stated at [12:46]. Motion adopted 5-0-0 at [13:00].
[13:01] Proposal on declaring RA vacancies and seeking by-election.
— Motion stated at [13:02]. Motion adopted 5-0-0 at [13:17].
[13:21] Report from ThePrincess Parisi on Tour commission. (some progress)
[13:22] Report from MT Lundquist on Commerce commission. (no news)
[13:23] Report from Beathan Vale on RA Process commission. (completed)
[13:24] Proposals on RA Process changes, continued from 16 March meeting.
— Motion stated at [13:28] (‘second alternative paragraph 3’ about specific RA debate rules and time limits). Motion adopted 4-0-1 at [13:40].
— Motion stated at [13:42] (‘paragraph 4’ about citizen input to RA). Motion adopted 4-0-1 at [13:46].
[13:49] Strategic CDS plans discussion. (Mostly about sims and expansion)
[14:10] Adjournment.
Transcript
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “” inserted to separate agenda items
=
2008/03/24 12:04 MT Lundquist: hi beathan
2008/03/24 12:04 Beathan Vale: hi all
2008/03/24 12:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: hello jamie
2008/03/24 12:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: hi beathan
2008/03/24 12:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: tpd sonja but she likes to talk
2008/03/24 12:04 MT Lundquist: is sonja here i tped her
2008/03/24 12:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: nope
2008/03/24 12:04 Beathan Vale: we will wait for Sonja
2008/03/24 12:05 MT Lundquist: k
2008/03/24 12:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: she asked we start later cos she loves matanomics
2008/03/24 12:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: shall i get my twin
2008/03/24 12:05 MT Lundquist: do we have the recorder
2008/03/24 12:05 MT Lundquist: and notecards
2008/03/24 12:05 Beathan Vale: I don’t have notecards or a recorder
2008/03/24 12:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: is it legal then
2008/03/24 12:05 MT Lundquist: hi sonja
2008/03/24 12:06 Beathan Vale: But I can create notecards — and we can do old fashioned recording
2008/03/24 12:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: you dont have to stay if you dont want .. just wanted you to see what we are doing
2008/03/24 12:06 Beathan Vale: can someone volunteer to keep the record
2008/03/24 12:06 You: ThePrincess?, it’s legal if everyone who speaks assents to being recorded.
2008/03/24 12:06 Sonja Strom: I assent
2008/03/24 12:06 Beathan Vale: and everyone consent to be recorded – I do
2008/03/24 12:06 Jayalli Hawthorne: oh I love getting to know my sister better
2008/03/24 12:06 ThePrincess? Parisi: record me and post me on the forum then
2008/03/24 12:06 MT Lundquist: i assent
2008/03/24 12:07 Beathan Vale: Jamie — can you keep the record?
2008/03/24 12:07 Jayalli Hawthorne: I’ve waited so many years to be with you again… 🙂
2008/03/24 12:07 Sonja Strom: Welcome Jayalli
2008/03/24 12:07 You: certainly Beathan
2008/03/24 12:07 You: OK we have assent from all RA members. I also assent. Jayalli, OK if we record your comments during this session?
2008/03/24 12:08 Jayalli Hawthorne: yes absolutely
2008/03/24 12:08 Beathan Vale: We are working on improvements to how we run the RA meetings. Our goals are to get through our business, make sure everyone is heard fairly, and keep a professional tone. There are bills pending, and probably will be additional official rule reform. But for now, the RA members have conferred and would like to use a few specific rules, and a slightly more formal meeting procedure. Please help us by respecting these rules:
2008/03/24 12:08 Beathan Vale: First, please keep social chat to a minimum in the open chat channel. That will make it easier to follow the official threads of conversation.
2008/03/24 12:08 Beathan Vale: Second, we plan to formally approve each agenda and enforce time limits for each item. Probably that will result in time limits for individual speakers, which the chairperson will announce. Please respect them.
2008/03/24 12:08 Beathan Vale: Third, and importantly, everyone who speaks should be recognized by the meeting chair. If you want to speak, RA members included: (a) Tell the chair in IM. (b) You will be queued. (c) The chair will state, in chat, when it’s your turn. When we are having a casual, open-ended chat the chairperson can suspend that rule.
2008/03/24 12:08 Beathan Vale: We plan to have “open microphone” sessions at each meeting, including this one, so that anyone with unscheduled issues or extra comments has some opportunity to raise their concerns.
2008/03/24 12:08 Sonja Strom: Beathan, slow down please…
2008/03/24 12:09 Beathan Vale: Thanks for your help and your support of virtual democratic government.
2008/03/24 12:09 Sonja Strom: hi Cindy – welcome
2008/03/24 12:10 Beathan Vale: Everyone who just walked in — please consent to be records
2008/03/24 12:10 MT Lundquist: i consent
2008/03/24 12:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: i did already
2008/03/24 12:10 Sonja Strom: I have a comment and question about getting in a “speaking queue.”
2008/03/24 12:10 You: I have everyone except Jayalli and CIndy
2008/03/24 12:10 Cindy Ecksol: I consent
2008/03/24 12:10 Jayalli Hawthorne: i consent
2008/03/24 12:11 Sonja Strom: Is there a way that could be more apparent to everyone than to send an IM to Jamie?
2008/03/24 12:11 Jamie Palisades smiles, gestures to the chair, that’s everyone
2008/03/24 12:11 Beathan Vale: Looking for oath — does anyone have it
2008/03/24 12:12 Beathan Vale: (I am still out of things from my bout with pneumoia last week
2008/03/24 12:12 Jamie Palisades mutters informally .. hm – a queueing device – bearing in mind that it’s only needed when there’s a bunch of people trying to talk – I bet we could get a scripted Board, sonja
2008/03/24 12:12 Sonja Strom: OK, for now we can do that.
2008/03/24 12:13 You: Beathan, I am looking at the last minutes for that – first mtg of current RA
2008/03/24 12:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: I DONT SEE MINE
2008/03/24 12:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: gwyn is on
2008/03/24 12:14 MT Lundquist gave you CDS RA Office Affirmation.
2008/03/24 12:14 MT Lundquist: there
2008/03/24 12:14 Sonja Strom: I found it.
2008/03/24 12:14 MT Lundquist: thats it
2008/03/24 12:14 Sonja Strom: Do you have it?
2008/03/24 12:14 You: I do.
2008/03/24 12:14 Sonja Strom: Hi Delia and Tom, welcome.
2008/03/24 12:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: hi everyone
2008/03/24 12:14 Tom Bukowski: Hello!
2008/03/24 12:14 MT Lundquist: hi delia
2008/03/24 12:14 You: Time to read it out loud, Beathan?
2008/03/24 12:14 Beathan Vale: OK — Jamie, repeat after me: I, Jamie Palisades, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
2008/03/24 12:14 Delia Lake: hi everyone
2008/03/24 12:15 Sonja Strom: Yay Jamie, welcome to the RA!
2008/03/24 12:15 You: I, Jamie Palisades, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
2008/03/24 12:15 Beathan Vale gave you New Note.
2008/03/24 12:15 You: (ahhh, cut and paste)
2008/03/24 12:15 Beathan Vale: next
2008/03/24 12:15 MT Lundquist claps
2008/03/24 12:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: yay amie
2008/03/24 12:15 Sonja Strom claps!!!
2008/03/24 12:15 You: Thanks, all.
2008/03/24 12:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: jamie.. whoot
2008/03/24 12:15 Sonja Strom: Delia and Tom, do you give your consent to be recorded in the meeting?
2008/03/24 12:15 Beathan Vale: I would like to propose Jamie as interim LRA — and turn the meeting over to him
2008/03/24 12:15 Delia Lake: yes
2008/03/24 12:15 Tom Bukowski: yes
2008/03/24 12:15 Beathan Vale: I am still fairly out of it
2008/03/24 12:15 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/24 12:15 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/24 12:16 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/24 12:16 Beathan Vale: aye
2008/03/24 12:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
2008/03/24 12:16 Beathan Vale: Jamie — looks like you are drafted
2008/03/24 12:16 You: Thanks very much. I note that we are starting out with a good affirmation of the interim LRA by the RA members 🙂
2008/03/24 12:16 You: A good path to reform maybe – but one we have set for debate on the agenda later, smile
2008/03/24 12:16 You: I have a very few comments. This will be brief, but take a few posts, so please bear with me.
2008/03/24 12:16 First, please be patient with me, and us, as we try to bring a bit more formality to meeting procedure. Having the presiding officer recognize all speakers, before they may talk, is powerful – but can be abused. So please consider this an experiment we will try in good faith and then evaluate. If you’re an RA member, or specifically invited speaker on a topic, I *reliably* will ask you to speak in turn; if you’re not, please IM me if you want to be in the queue. Otherwise, during debate, please keep the backchatter and wisecracks to a minimum — out of respect for the ability of all to read and understand what we actually are doing. If someone’s speaking out of order, they can expect to be ignored. I will do my strenuous best to be evenhanded, though. Democracy’s a worthy experiment, even in cyberspace; let’s see if we can make the best of it.
2008/03/24 12:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Princess!
2008/03/24 12:17 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all!
2008/03/24 12:17 You: Hello Gwyn, welcome. … as Sonja has noted, we may find better paths than IM — and we do NOT need speaker queueing when there’s no competition for the microphone. Still, good to have a plan in place.
2008/03/24 12:18 Tom Bukowski waves warmly to Gwyn
2008/03/24 12:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, hi, Tom! what a nice surprise 😀
2008/03/24 12:18 Jamie Palisades smiles
2008/03/24 12:18 You: I have a few brief procedural matters that need confirmation. I’ll try to keep them short. First, for today, could the five RA members please state briefly what time (in SLT) they must leave this meeting, for planning purposes? Everyone good until 14h00 SLT?
2008/03/24 12:18 MT Lundquist: yes
2008/03/24 12:18 Beathan Vale: I think I can stay until 1400
2008/03/24 12:19 Sonja Strom: yes, so far as I know — I am in my office.
2008/03/24 12:19 You: ok – understood – ThePrincess?, how’s your time constraints?
2008/03/24 12:19 Tom Bukowski quietly says “argh, rl calling and must run”, but I”ll leave my avie here and look at the chat later.
2008/03/24 12:19 You: we’ll assume we have the full 2 hours then?
2008/03/24 12:20 You: OK. Thank you. Second, let me just note our thanks to Pat Murakami for voluntarily posting the 9 March and 16 March minutes. That was very helpful. Third: having read those minutes (transcript really) …
2008/03/24 12:20 You: … just for clarity, let’s confirm: do I understand correctly that paragraphs “1” (modified 7 day rule) and “3” (RA can override LRA agenda) from the RA reform bill discussed on 16 March were adopted, and are now in force? Any RA member disagree?
2008/03/24 12:20 MT Lundquist: i agree
2008/03/24 12:21 You: anyone disagree?
2008/03/24 12:21 Beathan Vale: no
2008/03/24 12:21 Sonja Strom: I agree
2008/03/24 12:21 Beathan Vale: I agree
2008/03/24 12:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree that i dont disagree
2008/03/24 12:21 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 12:21 You: OK, so both are in force. Fine. We will operate pursuant to those two, then. As for the other RA rule reform matters, they’re under debate and will come up on the agenda.
2008/03/24 12:22 You: I think any other preliminaries can wait, thank you… so …
2008/03/24 12:23 You: Just checking – since the RA can change the agenda 🙂
2008/03/24 12:23 Beathan Vale: I so move
2008/03/24 12:23 You: any objections?
2008/03/24 12:23 MT Lundquist: no
2008/03/24 12:23 Sonja Strom: no
2008/03/24 12:23 Beathan Vale: no objection
2008/03/24 12:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: none but if moon shows i want to hear her please
2008/03/24 12:24 You: Excellent. I’d ask everyone’s indulgence for 60 seconds as I think ThePrincess? has an introduction of a guest to make.
2008/03/24 12:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn: she’ll be in-world shortly, Princess
2008/03/24 12:24 You: Understood TP
2008/03/24 12:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: oh .. everyone you may know Tom Bukowski, he has visited us often and he is considereing bein g a citizen
2008/03/24 12:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: we would be honored if that happens
2008/03/24 12:24 ThePrincess? Parisi: welcome Tom
2008/03/24 12:24 Sonja Strom: Welcome Tom 🙂
2008/03/24 12:25 MT Lundquist: hi tom
2008/03/24 12:25 You: Great, we like new neigbors: welcome!
2008/03/24 12:25 Gwyneth Llewelyn: a very warm welcome :)))))
===
2008/03/24 12:25 Beathan Vale: Moon is on
2008/03/24 12:25 Beathan Vale: Let’s take a bit to here from her before moving on to the election amendment
2008/03/24 12:25 Delia Lake: that would be wonderful. Tom
2008/03/24 12:25 Beathan Vale: welcome Tom
2008/03/24 12:26 Sonja Strom: Hi Moon, welcome — Gwyn too 🙂
2008/03/24 12:26 Beathan Vale: Hello Moon
2008/03/24 12:26 Moon Adamant: hello everyone, sorry i am late
2008/03/24 12:26 MT Lundquist: hi moon
2008/03/24 12:26 You: OK, looking at the agenda (the wiki URI I posted in chat), we have completed items 1 and 2, next will be 9 (which we moved before 3). Everyone agreeable to 5 minutes for Moon before that?
2008/03/24 12:26 Beathan Vale: agree
2008/03/24 12:26 Sonja Strom: yes
2008/03/24 12:26 MT Lundquist: yes
2008/03/24 12:26 Moon Adamant: Jamie, can you please post the ulr again?
2008/03/24 12:26 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
2008/03/24 12:26 You: Floor’s yours, Madame Guild Artiste Extraordinaire
2008/03/24 12:26 Gwyneth Llewelyn: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1677 ?
2008/03/24 12:27 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 12:27 Moon Adamant: thanks
2008/03/24 12:28 You: hmm
2008/03/24 12:28 You: I thkn we’re waiting for Moon to share the list of info she needs from the RA for sim 4?
2008/03/24 12:28 Beathan Vale: yes
2008/03/24 12:28 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon’s reading lol
2008/03/24 12:28 You: Moon, your “busy” signal is one also, FYI. Will let you know when we get to 5 mins
2008/03/24 12:28 Moon Adamant: sorry
2008/03/24 12:29 Moon Adamant: i would like to know, firt of all
2008/03/24 12:29 Moon Adamant: if you have reached consensus on which sim to develop first
2008/03/24 12:29 Beathan Vale: yes — we passed an expansion of CN
2008/03/24 12:29 Sonja Strom: on the East side of CN
2008/03/24 12:29 You: march 9th minutes, I think?
2008/03/24 12:30 MT Lundquist: yes
2008/03/24 12:31 Moon Adamant: well, i was asking because last meeting i atteneded there was also a proposal on teh table for a mozart/salxburg theme sim east to NFS
2008/03/24 12:31 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol
2008/03/24 12:31 Beathan Vale: that did not pass
2008/03/24 12:31 Sonja Strom: That was on the table, but did not pass.
2008/03/24 12:31 Moon Adamant: but if you tell me that it is CN, CN it is
2008/03/24 12:32 Beathan Vale: but it might be built as a private initiative — if the private intiative build passes
2008/03/24 12:32 Jamie Palisades whistles the MagicFlute? and notes that a reservation is a different thing than a purchase – let’s note that for further consideration
2008/03/24 12:32 Moon Adamant: i will ask which sim exactly, btw, referring to CN
2008/03/24 12:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: we did already, perhaps moon, you just tell us what you need from us specifically in specs to get on with what we passed
2008/03/24 12:32 You: Moon, we tremendously appreciate all the volunteer time you and your colleaguegs put into this. All the same, I’d budgeted 5 mins for this. My fault, maybe. Do we need more time at this meeting? Is there a prepared list of questions?
2008/03/24 12:32 Moon Adamant: ok
2008/03/24 12:33 Moon Adamant: what is the range of population you want in the sim
2008/03/24 12:33 ThePrincess? Parisi: can you post it on the forum today or give jamie a notecard then today
2008/03/24 12:33 Moon Adamant: what is the range of size of plots in the sim
2008/03/24 12:33 Beathan Vale: The build — Option 1: a mix of lots between 512 and 1024 in size. about 50 in total, primarily residential, east of CN
2008/03/24 12:33 MT Lundquist: yes we agreed
2008/03/24 12:33 ThePrincess? Parisi: it is in the RA minutes
2008/03/24 12:33 Sonja Strom: that was passed.
2008/03/24 12:33 Moon Adamant: does the RA preview any public infrastructure other than roads and communications?
2008/03/24 12:34 Sonja Strom: It was also posted on the Forum in the “Sim 4 Proposal” thread.
2008/03/24 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: give us a plan by what date.. april 15th.. hows that
2008/03/24 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: and we will approve it or not
2008/03/24 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: shall we give her a date to get it to us by please
2008/03/24 12:34 You: Hmmm – but ‘plan’ means what? Does the RA need to approve a ‘map’?
2008/03/24 12:34 Beathan Vale: I don’t feel the need — but others might
2008/03/24 12:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: what ever we need to buy the sim
2008/03/24 12:34 Moon Adamant: The Princess
2008/03/24 12:35 Moon Adamant: the Guild is an association of volunteers
2008/03/24 12:35 Sonja Strom: Welcome Pip, Antonius, and Naftali 🙂 Would you please give us permission to record your participation during this meeting?
2008/03/24 12:35 Naftali Torok: good evening everybopdy
2008/03/24 12:35 Beathan Vale: We just want 50 new residential lots — in a Roman theme
2008/03/24 12:35 Pip Torok: evening folks
2008/03/24 12:35 Moon Adamant: it is extremely hard to define an ETA for a sim plan
2008/03/24 12:35 Moon Adamant: when all work is done volunatrily
2008/03/24 12:36 You: Moon, may I ask a question: what does the Guild think is a reasonable deliverable to the RA about this?
2008/03/24 12:36 Moon Adamant: Jamie
2008/03/24 12:36 Moon Adamant: atm, the Guild has called a workgroup to update the masterplan
2008/03/24 12:37 Moon Adamant: Symo and Cindy have volunteeered
2008/03/24 12:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: Beathan Vale: Jamie — looks like you arew drafted 12:16 Jamie Palisades: Thanks very much. I note that we are starting out with a good affirmation of the interim LRA by the RA members 🙂 12:16 Jamie Palisades: A good path to reform maybe – but one we have set for debate on the agenda later, smile 12:16 maraki Cuttita is Online 12:16 Jamie Palisades: I have a very few comments. This will be brief, but take a few posts, so please bear with me. First, please be patient with me, and us, as we try to bring a bit more formality to meeting procedure. Having the presiding officer recognize all speakers, before they may talk, is powerful – but can be abused. So please consider this an experiment we will try in good faith and thand valus has too
2008/03/24 12:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: oops
2008/03/24 12:37 ThePrincess? Parisi: that was a typeo!!!
2008/03/24 12:37 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 12:37 Moon Adamant: in next guild meeting, i will ask if more voluntyeers and try to schedule a meeting
2008/03/24 12:38 You: I think ThePrincess? is calling our attention to our time limits.
2008/03/24 12:38 Moon Adamant: that’s a previous work we have to do, and at teh same time, i can start another workgroup to start studying teh RA specs
2008/03/24 12:38 You: Moon, can our current action item be a report by next RA meeting on the expected date and nature of a plan for approval?
2008/03/24 12:38 ThePrincess? Parisi: actually i just made a mistake
2008/03/24 12:39 Sonja Strom: We can always talk more about the details for new new sim in the “Sim 4 Discussion Thread” in the Forum: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1628
2008/03/24 12:39 Moon Adamant: i am always available to answer before this RA about Guild progress concerning RA requests
2008/03/24 12:39 You: of course
2008/03/24 12:39 You: and we appreciate that …
2008/03/24 12:39 Moon Adamant: surely Sonja
2008/03/24 12:40 Moon Adamant: or that discussion – not the POLITICAL ittems – but the technical ones
2008/03/24 12:40 Moon Adamant: be carried at Guild meetings
2008/03/24 12:40 You: .. but can we reasonably expect a delivery date to be proposed by the Guild for a plan by next week? If not, just say no 🙂 as you point out we all are volunteers
2008/03/24 12:40 Beathan Vale: Note — we are 10 minutes over time on this — and we have discussed nothing that was not previously discussed and approved at prior sessions
2008/03/24 12:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: move we go to the next item please
2008/03/24 12:40 You: yes, I’d like to close it off after my Q to Moon
2008/03/24 12:40 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you moon
2008/03/24 12:41 Moon Adamant: i cannot answer you Jamie – saving that i will add that point to the Guild’s agenda right away
2008/03/24 12:41 Sonja Strom: Welcome Symo – could we please have your consent to record anything you say in this meeting?
2008/03/24 12:41 Beathan Vale: OK — Can we have Moon come back next session based on the Guild meeting between now and then?
2008/03/24 12:41 You: Fair enough, then I suggest we close this, convey the request to the Guild, and I will chat with Moon further about what’s feasible and report to the RA in the interim
2008/03/24 12:41 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 12:41 Sonja Strom: Symo there is not recording device today, we are only keeping a record of the chat.
2008/03/24 12:41 Moon Adamant: please do Jamie
2008/03/24 12:42 You: we are saying substantially the same, I think, Beathan. Good. Item closed then. Next is “9” which we moved up — and ahem —
2008/03/24 12:42 Symo Kurka: ok i give my consent
2008/03/24 12:42 Moon Adamant: i am looking forward to talk to you re: this issue
2008/03/24 12:42 You: Tony, Pip, Naftali:
2008/03/24 12:42 You: please assent to being recorded in open chat.
2008/03/24 12:42 You: Thanks Moon, and thanks for coming
===
2008/03/24 12:42 You: Item 9
2008/03/24 12:42 Tom Bukowski is back, sitting in quietly
2008/03/24 12:42 Sonja Strom: Tony sent me a personal IM that he will not say anything, and now he is “Busy”…
2008/03/24 12:43 You: In the next agenda item (numbered 3 originally) we likely will ask for a by-election
2008/03/24 12:43 You: (thanks, ackowl Sonja)
2008/03/24 12:43 You: and when we do, it will proceed under rules …
2008/03/24 12:43 You: .. so the Q is whether we wish to make any changes to those rules BEFORE then, that is, today.
2008/03/24 12:44 You: Is there a current proposal for election rule change that is already active on the floor as a motion?
2008/03/24 12:44 Beathan Vale: no — we are up for discussion of the amendment
2008/03/24 12:44 Beathan Vale: I have a breif statement in favor – -but I will forego if there is no opposition
2008/03/24 12:44 You: Ok – has it been moved and seconded yet, or is it still in flux?
2008/03/24 12:45 Beathan Vale: no pending motion — call for debate
2008/03/24 12:45 MT Lundquist: second
2008/03/24 12:45 You: Any reason not to have Beathan move it? (With a URI or notecard please)
2008/03/24 12:45 Beathan Vale: but I will move it if no one wishes to speak in opposition
2008/03/24 12:45 ThePrincess? Parisi: none from me
2008/03/24 12:45 You: let’s make sure all know what we’re voting on?
2008/03/24 12:45 MT Lundquist: none
2008/03/24 12:46 Beathan Vale: I move passage of Bromo’s amendment tot he Constitution abolishing the faction elimination rule
2008/03/24 12:46 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm?
2008/03/24 12:46 You: Colleagues: would someone identity the source, such as with a Forum URI, please?
2008/03/24 12:46 Jamie Palisades cringes at the thought of “we just passed the thingy we think Bromo said somewhere”
2008/03/24 12:46 Beathan Vale: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1675
2008/03/24 12:46 You: thank you 🙂
2008/03/24 12:46 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Beathan!
2008/03/24 12:47 You: OK, that forum item is the motion and has been seconded
2008/03/24 12:47 You: several have indicated no need for debate
2008/03/24 12:47 You: let me first ask – any RA members have comment?
2008/03/24 12:47 Beathan Vale: no comment
2008/03/24 12:47 MT Lundquist: no
2008/03/24 12:47 ThePrincess? Parisi: ive said what i need to say already
2008/03/24 12:47 You: OK – let me note in passing – does this require all 5 votes to be adopted?
2008/03/24 12:48 Beathan Vale: yed
2008/03/24 12:48 Beathan Vale: yes
2008/03/24 12:48 Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: no just four
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry we have a majority with four
2008/03/24 12:48 Beathan Vale: on a RA of 7 — 5 needed for 66%
2008/03/24 12:48 You: Constitutional, is it not Madame ExSC chair?
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: we have a RA of 5
2008/03/24 12:48 Gwyneth Llewelyn: constitutional change, 2/3
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: csdf quit
2008/03/24 12:48 You: *ahem*
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: you cannot quit and be here too
2008/03/24 12:48 You: This is why we have chairs 🙂 listen
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: how can you have it both way
2008/03/24 12:48 ThePrincess? Parisi: s
2008/03/24 12:48 Beathan Vale: Well — let’s vote and hope we have 5 votes, not 4 oo to avert the need for the SC to decide the point
2008/03/24 12:49 Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, there are 7 seats at the RA that were voted for
2008/03/24 12:49 ThePrincess? Parisi: but two were given up
2008/03/24 12:49 You: / me ahems again … there are two interps of that requirement 🙂 the *more conservative* one requires 5 votes
2008/03/24 12:49 Moon Adamant: the RA HAS 7 seats , i believe
2008/03/24 12:49 Gwyneth Llewelyn: They were left vacant 🙂
2008/03/24 12:49 Moon Adamant: they depend on population
2008/03/24 12:49 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is different
2008/03/24 12:49 You: Dear friends
2008/03/24 12:49 You: let’s not have me show you how keeping order works so early in my tenure, hm?
2008/03/24 12:49 Gwyneth Llewelyn: heeh Jamie — sorry,
2008/03/24 12:49 You: I suggest that there’s a difference of opinion
2008/03/24 12:49 You: and that’s OK
2008/03/24 12:49 Gwyneth Llewelyn: just to clarify the issue.
2008/03/24 12:49 You: but SOME think it requires 5
2008/03/24 12:50 You: so if we do not get 5 there may be an appeal
2008/03/24 12:50 Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
2008/03/24 12:50 You: which is also OK .. and ALL that I suggest needs to be said just now
2008/03/24 12:50 You: now then
2008/03/24 12:51 You: Sonja, you’ve not spoken on this. Anything, before I ask for *brief* comments from citizens?
2008/03/24 12:51 Sonja Strom: I carefully explained my perspective in the Forum.
2008/03/24 12:51 Symo Kurka: lol
2008/03/24 12:51 You: fair enough 🙂 unless an RA member objects, I note we’re about 8 minutes into a 15 minute item, and I wish to ask for brief comments from anyone else present.
2008/03/24 12:52 Sonja Strom: Sorry, I can’t find the link at the moment…
2008/03/24 12:52 Beathan Vale: “The posts by others here after my entry have caused me to rethink my position. Although in honesty I still do not feel strongly about returning to the former method of voting, I will support doing that if it is better for our community.”
2008/03/24 12:52 Beathan Vale: last post in the URL I posted earlier
2008/03/24 12:52 Sonja Strom: If everyone wants, I can go over them again here.
2008/03/24 12:52 Jamie Palisades looks around … seeing no objection … (and thanks BV) … well let’s see if others wish to comment?
2008/03/24 12:52 ThePrincess? Parisi: im ready to vote
2008/03/24 12:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn: A question, if I may ask… will this still allow “blank votes”, ie., a way for people to enter the booth, register a vote as normal, but allow them NOT to vote on ANY party?
2008/03/24 12:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (because a system where citizens cannot say NO is a poorly democratic one)
2008/03/24 12:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn almost sounds like Prokofy 😛
2008/03/24 12:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: just dont vote then i guess
2008/03/24 12:53 Beathan Vale: well — citizens can choose not to vote at all
2008/03/24 12:53 You: could I ask Beathan as motion owner to reply?
2008/03/24 12:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s different, princess
2008/03/24 12:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn: “not voting” is not the same thing as “voting no”
2008/03/24 12:54 You: Can a voter who does vote still vote blank, if this proposal passes?
2008/03/24 12:54 You: Beathan?
2008/03/24 12:54 Beathan Vale: I don’t see that process as being possible without faction elimination
2008/03/24 12:54 Beathan Vale: the blank vote is a faction elimination of all factions
2008/03/24 12:54 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
2008/03/24 12:54 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
2008/03/24 12:54 Jamie Palisades notes that another option is to pass it, if it passes, and then let the SC work out what it means if it proves ambiguous, smile
2008/03/24 12:54 Sonja Strom: Here is my first set of comments: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1628 and my second set: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1675&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p10352
2008/03/24 12:54 Beathan Vale: Citizens remain free not to vote — so I don’t see a problem
2008/03/24 12:54 Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles back
2008/03/24 12:54 You: Ok, so Beathan has answered Gwyn in the negative
2008/03/24 12:54 You: Cindy?
2008/03/24 12:55 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Beathan
2008/03/24 12:55 Cindy Ecksol: I am not in favor of this bill. I think it takes away too much autonomy from individual voters. we would be better off modifying the exiting system (easily done) to mitigate the problems seen in the last election
2008/03/24 12:56 Cindy Ecksol: existing*
2008/03/24 12:56 You: Thank you.
2008/03/24 12:56 You: And bless you for being clear and brief.
2008/03/24 12:56 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
2008/03/24 12:56 Cindy Ecksol: yw
2008/03/24 12:56 You: two minutes remain
2008/03/24 12:56 You: any last words?
2008/03/24 12:56 Beathan Vale: I have a bit
2008/03/24 12:56 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 12:57 Beathan Vale: The use of the faction elimination rule has caused substantial problem and bad feeling — we should eliminate it and then go back to the drawing board to address Cindy’s concerns — we can pass a good fix from either the restored old Constitution or the new one
2008/03/24 12:57 Beathan Vale: done
2008/03/24 12:57 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
2008/03/24 12:57 You: excellent and thanks. I suggest we are ready to vote.
2008/03/24 12:57 You: anything *urgent* Cindy?
2008/03/24 12:58 Tom Bukowski has to run to another meeting, but is glad he could sit in, and is going to talk to ThePrincess? and others about becoming a citizen! I’ll try to find the time… okay – cu all later!
2008/03/24 12:58 Jamie Palisades placidly watches the clock – and Cindy’s typing
2008/03/24 12:58 Cindy Ecksol: yes. I’ll just say that there’s no need to throw out the baby with the bathwater. fix the problem properly, don’t go back to the old syste,m because the new is not what was expected
2008/03/24 12:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you tom
2008/03/24 12:58 Sonja Strom: bye Tom see you
2008/03/24 12:58 You: Ta Tom, thanks again, hope to see you around.
2008/03/24 12:58 Beathan Vale: I call the question
2008/03/24 12:58 You: OK. Thanks. Time to vote. I suggest we use alpha order – but sometimes reverse it 🙂
2008/03/24 12:58 Delia Lake: bye Tom
2008/03/24 12:59 You: By first name this time
2008/03/24 12:59 Beathan Vale: aye
2008/03/24 12:59 You: Members, please note your vote.
2008/03/24 12:59 You: Jamie votes aye.
2008/03/24 12:59 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/24 12:59 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/24 12:59 Naftali Torok: ave
2008/03/24 13:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: giggles
2008/03/24 13:00 Naftali Torok: lol
2008/03/24 13:00 You: Um, thanks Naftali, but RA members only
2008/03/24 13:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye for naftali, her fault
2008/03/24 13:00 You: Is that a “yes” giggle, Prin?
2008/03/24 13:00 ThePrincess? Parisi looks at cindy and points to naf
2008/03/24 13:00 Naftali Torok: gigles
2008/03/24 13:00 You: OK, 5 votes. I declare it passes.
2008/03/24 13:00 Cindy Ecksol says ? to prin
2008/03/24 13:01 You: I will report that to the various appropriate parties. On to next item. It is 1 pm SLT.
2008/03/24 13:01 Beathan Vale: can we get an official “aye” from TP please
2008/03/24 13:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: theprincess votes AYE
2008/03/24 13:01 Beathan Vale: thanks
2008/03/24 13:01 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
2008/03/24 13:01 Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
2008/03/24 13:02 You: can I get a motion that that effect?
2008/03/24 13:02 Beathan Vale: I move to request that the SC run a midterm election to fill vacant seats in the RA
2008/03/24 13:02 MT Lundquist: second
2008/03/24 13:02 Jamie Palisades peers over his shoulder, planning to pin down Gwyn on that ‘yay’ later …
2008/03/24 13:02 You: any debate on this? Can we state ‘2 seats’ for clarity?
2008/03/24 13:02 Beathan Vale: 2 seats vacated by CSDF — remaining seats to be filled by faction per Constitution
2008/03/24 13:03 ThePrincess? Parisi: by a faction other than the CSDF correct?
2008/03/24 13:03 You: friendly amendment, OK with all? Any debate?
2008/03/24 13:03 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
2008/03/24 13:03 ThePrincess? Parisi: i am concerend that the CSDF at teh last minute will try to refill the seats.. and it is clear to me in the constuituion that would not be allowed
2008/03/24 13:03 You: um, no, The Princess, by anyone the electorate in its wisdom chooses from among persons lawfully nominated
2008/03/24 13:03 You: Here is where we are – ahem
2008/03/24 13:04 You: 2 seats vacant
2008/03/24 13:04 Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
2008/03/24 13:04 You: no appointment made
2008/03/24 13:04 ThePrincess? Parisi: there is a point in the constituion taht makes it very clear to me that they cannot
2008/03/24 13:04 You: so the Q is whether AFTER we declare them so here, and ask for election, a faction can fill them anyway and avoid the election
2008/03/24 13:04 You: and I suggest we recognize Ms Sword of Justrice there for a view – in her SC capacity not party capacity of course
2008/03/24 13:05 You: Gwyn?
2008/03/24 13:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes.. no but that if the CSDF has candidate that they indeed must fill them
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
2008/03/24 13:05 ThePrincess? Parisi: prior to the election , without it
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: the by-election is just another election
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: but only for a limited number of seats
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: it goes through the whole motions,
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: candidates declaring willingness to serve
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 15 days of campaigning
2008/03/24 13:05 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 168 hours of voting
2008/03/24 13:06 Gwyneth Llewelyn: New and old parties can be formed and present candidates
2008/03/24 13:06 Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is no restriction on *anything* on the Constitution.
2008/03/24 13:06 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, if the RA wishes to impose new restrictions,
2008/03/24 13:06 You: Gwyneth, dear, so far you and I agree. But: if we today declare the seats vacant and ask for an election, does that terminate CDSF’s right to fill them by appontment, in your view?
2008/03/24 13:06 Gwyneth Llewelyn: they’re welcome to change it.
2008/03/24 13:06 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, yes
2008/03/24 13:06 You: thanks
2008/03/24 13:07 You: I think that’s all we needed to know, really, isn’t it?
2008/03/24 13:07 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you for the time.
2008/03/24 13:07 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hehe yes)
2008/03/24 13:07 Beathan Vale: there is a faster way — amend the Constitution to reduce the syze of the RA to 5 for this term only
2008/03/24 13:07 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
2008/03/24 13:07 Beathan Vale: I will propose that and put in on next week’s agenda
2008/03/24 13:07 You: If some one wants to introduce a bill dissolving CSDF of course, they can – and then they can watch me do amusing things with the UDHR 🙂
2008/03/24 13:07 You: Cindy?
2008/03/24 13:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: can we really do that beathan? really we can?
2008/03/24 13:08 You: hmmmmm
2008/03/24 13:08 Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA can do *anything* 😀
2008/03/24 13:08 You: let’s get Cindy’s comment and THEN go to the 5-versus-7 thing
2008/03/24 13:08 Cindy Ecksol: Is there anything in the constitution that requires those two seats to be filled? seems to me that CSDF can choose to sit in them or not, but I don’t see where it says in the Constitution that seats that are not being sat in must be take away from the party that contorls them and filled with a by election
2008/03/24 13:09 Cindy Ecksol: so why not just continue the RA meetings until the next full election comes up? why go to all this trouble?
2008/03/24 13:09 You: um – well, let me take a shot
2008/03/24 13:09 You: you’re probably right that not every corner is perfectly mitred off in that cabinet
2008/03/24 13:09 You: but
2008/03/24 13:09 You: if there are vacancies
2008/03/24 13:09 You: the better approach is to fill them, as otherwise we’re always one glitch away from a failure of quorum etc .. arguably
2008/03/24 13:10 You: so
2008/03/24 13:10 You: we have a motion on the table
2008/03/24 13:10 Cindy Ecksol: lol! I don’t think the constitution defies “vacancy”
2008/03/24 13:10 You: to declare vacancies .. (make a lawyer out of you yet, codergrrl) …
2008/03/24 13:10 Gwyneth Llewelyn: wait, it does ” I’ll copy & paste the relevant passage
2008/03/24 13:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: check what she pastes
2008/03/24 13:11 You: OK but I am astisfie dthat the current motion is valid under the Constitution
2008/03/24 13:11 You: so let;s not go off on flights of fancy about what else we *might* do, please
2008/03/24 13:11 You: your presiding officer notes that time has expired
2008/03/24 13:11 You: does any RA member wish to amend or speak further to the motion on the table?
2008/03/24 13:11 Beathan Vale: let’s hold the by-election and intruduce a Constitutional amendment temporarily reducing the RA to 5 until the 2 seats are filled — I will draft and present
2008/03/24 13:11 You: hmmmmm
2008/03/24 13:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: only that i need to rethink the election and the wisdom of cindy my faction .. we need to talk to other faction memeber
2008/03/24 13:12 You: so that amendment would NOT need to precede this declaration, right?
2008/03/24 13:12 Beathan Vale: right
2008/03/24 13:12 You: well Prin
2008/03/24 13:12 Beathan Vale: if it fails — we have an RA of 7 with 5 members until filled
2008/03/24 13:12 You: if we do NOT act today, let me be clear 🙂 …
2008/03/24 13:12 Gwyneth Llewelyn: IV, 2, 1 ” 1) If the faction no longer meets the constitutional requirements or if no members of the faction are willing to serve, there shall be a special election to fill, for the remainder of the term, the seats left vacant.
2008/03/24 13:12 Beathan Vale: we should get the election rolling if we go that way — or we might as well not have it
2008/03/24 13:12 You: yes
2008/03/24 13:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok so gywenth you are missing a point dear
2008/03/24 13:12 You: BV said what I was going to
2008/03/24 13:13 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
2008/03/24 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: at the point they become willing to serve
2008/03/24 13:13 You: are we ready for a vote on the motion?
2008/03/24 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: saying they run
2008/03/24 13:13 Beathan Vale: We also might want to consider allowing Chancellors to appoint RA members under these circumstances — as Governors can
2008/03/24 13:13 ThePrincess? Parisi: then the whole thing is moot
2008/03/24 13:13 You: hang on
2008/03/24 13:13 You: *ahem*
2008/03/24 13:13 Jamie Palisades looks around
2008/03/24 13:13 Cindy Ecksol: yes, I agree with prin.
2008/03/24 13:13 Moon Adamant listens interestedly
2008/03/24 13:14 You: There’s a motion on the table to declare the 2 seats vacant and ask for an election to fill them. It seems constitutional to me. May I call for a vote on it? Or does any RA member wish to change their position publicly before that?
2008/03/24 13:14 ThePrincess? Parisi: perhaps the chancellor will be unbiased
2008/03/24 13:14 Beathan Vale: Second the vote
2008/03/24 13:14 You: 🙂 later, dear
2008/03/24 13:14 MT Lundquist: i like the proposal to have the election but to temporarily reduce the ra to 5 pending the election results
2008/03/24 13:14 You: we can do THAT after we ask for the election, though
2008/03/24 13:14 Beathan Vale: MT — let’s give that idea time to percolate
2008/03/24 13:14 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Theoretically, who calls the election is the SC anyway 😉
2008/03/24 13:14 MT Lundquist: yes i agree
2008/03/24 13:14 Beathan Vale: I just threw it out
2008/03/24 13:14 You: 🙂 but we are declaring the vacancies to make that clear …
2008/03/24 13:15 Gwyneth Llewelyn: But, granted, it’s the RA that sets the date.
2008/03/24 13:15 You: OK folks. I ask members to vote on the ‘call the election’ motion now. I vote aye.
2008/03/24 13:15 Beathan Vale: aye
2008/03/24 13:15 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/24 13:15 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/24 13:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: please wait a second
2008/03/24 13:16 Beathan Vale: I move that we suspend committee reports this session
2008/03/24 13:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: i agree there are seats that no longer exist but not that we must fill them ..
2008/03/24 13:16 ThePrincess? Parisi: i want to hear beathans five RA seats proposal so i vote nay
2008/03/24 13:17 Beathan Vale: still passes 4 to 1
2008/03/24 13:17 You: Prin, 4-1 or 5-1, I will declare it passed either way. limits as to a date? Or ask them to propose one.
2008/03/24 13:17 You: Right – sorry – hang on –
2008/03/24 13:17 Beathan Vale: I will propose my interim RA seat proposal next week
2008/03/24 13:17 Beathan Vale: as soon as Constitutionally possible
2008/03/24 13:17 You: OK, now. I ask for 3 more minutes extension of this item, Any objections?
2008/03/24 13:17 MT Lundquist: no
2008/03/24 13:17 Beathan Vale: no objection
2008/03/24 13:18 You: do we wish to give the SC and constraints on timing, now or even at next week’s meeting?
2008/03/24 13:18 You: *and > any
2008/03/24 13:18 Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s the RA’s prerrogative to set the date.
2008/03/24 13:18 You: just asking.
2008/03/24 13:18 You: exactly
2008/03/24 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: we havent discussed a date now so we cant do it today
2008/03/24 13:18 You: Not seeing any typing hand motions – so I suggest we take that up next week, along with Beathan’s temporary-5 idea.
2008/03/24 13:18 Beathan Vale: April 21 for polls closed? a bit more than 1 week to set up; 15 days campaign; then a vote
2008/03/24 13:18 ThePrincess? Parisi: it must be discussed right
2008/03/24 13:19 You: next week for that OK?
2008/03/24 13:19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Beathan, that would be correct 🙂 )
2008/03/24 13:19 Beathan Vale: I move to set April 21 as the date
2008/03/24 13:19 MT Lundquist: set the date next week
2008/03/24 13:19 Beathan Vale: MT — that will lose us a week
2008/03/24 13:20 You: True — but where’s the fire, chief?
2008/03/24 13:20
2008/03/24 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: we cant set a date yet….what is your hurry beathan we dont need to rush do we 2008/03/24 13:20 You: what prin said 🙂
2008/03/24 13:20 Jamie Palisades looks around, sees no contrary views: next item is Reports
2008/03/24 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
2008/03/24 13:20 You: Beathan suggested we skip them. But
2008/03/24 13:20 Beathan Vale: I move to suspend reports to save time
2008/03/24 13:20 You: are any of the repiorting persons present?
2008/03/24 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: i didnt get to talk on guided tour last week
2008/03/24 13:20 MT Lundquist: second
2008/03/24 13:20 ThePrincess? Parisi: i wanna say a thing to the public
2008/03/24 13:20 Beathan Vale: OK —
2008/03/24 13:20 MT Lundquist: k
2008/03/24 13:21 Beathan Vale: let’s hear TP
2008/03/24 13:21 You: 🙂 events over take me .. any debate on Beathan’s motion to close ’em?
2008/03/24 13:21 Beathan Vale: withdrawn
2008/03/24 13:21 You: Beathan wihdraws his motion, smile
2008/03/24 13:21 You: Prin? 3 minutes on tour?
2008/03/24 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: i have not had patrticipation in something.s. and so i just wanna …………….well set the thing up with symos cloud nine, if the citizens dont like it we will change it ok ?
2008/03/24 13:21 Jamie Palisades mutters 1:21 – 1:24
2008/03/24 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: thats all i wanna say
2008/03/24 13:21 ThePrincess? Parisi: no one is answering me on the forums so ill just do it
2008/03/24 13:22 You: So basically, you will do a public beta test, hm? Sounds sensible
2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: if you all dont like it we can change it .. ok .. done
2008/03/24 13:22 Beathan Vale: you plan sounded good
2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: yeah
2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok im done
2008/03/24 13:22 You: Does that somehow blow a budget that would make it imposible for us to change later? 2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: symo and me will set it up asap
2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: nooo
2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: ill pay what the budget doesnt have
2008/03/24 13:22 You: OK then – thx for report 🙂 and thx for your work and contributions
2008/03/24 13:22 You: next – Commerce – anything quick, MT?
2008/03/24 13:22 ThePrincess? Parisi: 🙂
2008/03/24 13:23 ThePrincess? Parisi: no
2008/03/24 13:23 MT Lundquist: nothing this week
2008/03/24 13:23 You: RA process – heh heh – maybe we should hold that one off for later on this agenda? 2008/03/24 13:23 Beathan Vale: nothing on elections — but I am sure we will have a long report soon 2008/03/24 13:23 You: ir is there somethign to say about the *commission*/
2008/03/24 13:23 You: ?
2008/03/24 13:23 Beathan Vale: RA process discussions have closed and the proposal is ready
2008/03/24 13:23 Beathan Vale: recent amendment to overcome objections to Roberts’ Rules
2008/03/24 13:24 You: OK. Good, reports over and thank you.
2008/03/24 13:24 You: And let me note in passing
2008/03/24 13:24 You: we need to sort out Brian’s statutory revision thing – but not right now
2008/03/24 13:24 You: next ===
2008/03/24 13:24 Cindy Ecksol thinks “But Jamie’s Rules” are working fine….
2008/03/24 13:24 You: item 5: RA process …
2008/03/24 13:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks along the same lines as Cindy 🙂
2008/03/24 13:24 You: eh, but Cin, the terror wears thin after a while …
2008/03/24 13:24 Cindy Ecksol: lol!
2008/03/24 13:24 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah!
2008/03/24 13:25 You: Process. PLEASE NOTE we’ve alreday confirmed the adoption of two of those reform items …
2008/03/24 13:25 Beathan Vale: Jamie’s rules are compatible with the second alternative 3 — and I favor that section at this point
2008/03/24 13:25 Cindy Ecksol thinks that even a demon suit didn’t help Pat’s Rules
2008/03/24 13:25 ThePrincess? Parisi: cindy will beat me for you jamie
2008/03/24 13:25 You: .. see earlier in this meeting.
2008/03/24 13:25 You: OK ahem.
2008/03/24 13:25 You: I object to your last comment Cindy.
2008/03/24 13:25 You: Let’s keep it to issues not personalities.
2008/03/24 13:25 Cindy Ecksol: withdrawn
2008/03/24 13:25 You: thanks
2008/03/24 13:26 You: item 5: Beathan, I thikn the best way to proceed …
2008/03/24 13:26 You: would be for you to intro by motion the bits and pieces left over, one by one, as you see fit in order
2008/03/24 13:26 Beathan Vale: Given the opposition to RROs, I withdraw Paragraph 3 — and I think that Pat’s alternative to PAragraph 3 was already rejected by thje last session — so we have one remaining alternative to vore on
2008/03/24 13:26 You: that work?
2008/03/24 13:26 Beathan Vale: yes
2008/03/24 13:26 You: OK. Please set up the last item – and I will fetch URI
2008/03/24 13:27 Beathan Vale: The RA procedurescan be modified by the RA — and should always be considered experimental
2008/03/24 13:27 Beathan Vale gave you RA Process Bill.
2008/03/24 13:27 Beathan Vale: Jamie –I’ve given you a note — might be easier
2008/03/24 13:27 Beathan Vale: not sure how to distribute it though
2008/03/24 13:27 Jamie Palisades notes the orig posted text for Beathan’s changes: (hoping he’s right) /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1596#p9784
2008/03/24 13:28 You: And we have a notecard from Beathan too – hang on –
2008/03/24 13:28 You: OK are you proposing 4 or alternative 4?
2008/03/24 13:28 You: This is the “citizen input” concept
2008/03/24 13:28 Beathan Vale: We are still on 3
2008/03/24 13:28 Beathan Vale: and I am proposing Second Alternative 3
2008/03/24 13:29 You: Oh I get it – no RRO, but yes for detailed rules. Correct?
2008/03/24 13:29 Beathan Vale: yes
2008/03/24 13:29 ThePrincess? Parisi: and im supposed to know when i can talk or not?
2008/03/24 13:29 You: ha ha let’s get a motion. I assume Beathan moves it
2008/03/24 13:30 You: and here it is, sorry for long paste –
2008/03/24 13:30 You: Every agenda for the RA shall be based on a schedule of 2 hours, with no less than a 10 minute open discussion time allowed at the end and no less than 10 minutes of administrative time set at the beginning. During the administrative time, the LRA shall perform administrative business on the RA agenda (such electing and swearing in a Chancellor and swearing in new members) and shall entertain procedural motions from the RA (such as motions to adjust the order of the agenda, extend or adjust time for debate, or to move a item designated as “noncontroversial” to a “consent agenda” in the next session; or to move an item on the “consent agenda” to the end of the agenda for debate) and shall ask the RA to pass the “consent agenda” without debate. Each item on the agenda shall be allocated a time for debate by the LRA. If the LRA believes that a proposed piece of legislation shall not be controversial, it shall be allocated not less than 10 munutes for debate. …
2008/03/24 13:30 Beathan Vale: I move adoption of the rule process in Second Alternative 3
2008/03/24 13:30 You: …
2008/03/24 13:30 You: If the LRA believes that a proposed piece of legislation shall not be controversial, it shall be allocated not less than 10 munutes for debate. If the LRA believes that a proposed piece of legislation may be controversial, it shall be allocated not less than 15 minutes for debate. All members of the RA and all citizens in attendance at the RA shall indicate to the LRA, before the start of the RA session or during the first ten minutes of the session, whether they wish to speak on an item on the agenda, and which side they wish to speak on. Time for debate shall be allocated as follows: for ten minute matters (2 minutes pro; 2 minutes con; 1/2 minutes pro rebuttal; 1/2 minutes con rebuttal; 5 minutes for RA q&A vote); for 15 minute matters (3 minutes pro; 3 minutes con; 2 minutes pro rebuttal; 2 minutes con rebuttal; 5 minutes RA Q&A; vote); time longer debates shall be set by the LRA, with each side getting equal time for original statements and for rebuttal, with pro going first, and con going second. … 2008/03/24 13:31 You: …
2008/03/24 13:31 You: The LRA shall divide time for debate between those wishing to speak pro and con, with the provision that half the time for debate shall be reserved for RA members wishing to speak on a matter. Prior to debate, the LRA shall announce the order of speakers and the time allowed for each speaker. Speakers may speak to the issue for the time allowed, or cede their time to another speaker of record. During the time allowed for speaking, the speaker shall not be interrupted by any person in attendance. No speaker shall speak longer than the allocated time. Following debate, the RA shall either move to vote on the issue; move for futher debate; or move to allow amendments and further debate. If the RA wishes further debate or amendments, no vote shall be held, and the matter shall be tabled until the next session of the RA, at which time the matter shall be considered as a “prior matter of the RA” on the agenda, and shall be considered to be controversial for the purpose of setting time for debate. …
2008/03/24 13:31 Naftali Torok: need time to read that all…:)
2008/03/24 13:31 You: ha ha
2008/03/24 13:31 You: oen more
2008/03/24 13:31 Naftali Torok: jaja
2008/03/24 13:31 You: … If the RA has voted to allow amendments, the matter shall be tabled and amendments shall be drafted and submitted to the LRA and posted on the forums at least one day prior to the date on which the LRA is to publish the RA agenda. Violation of these rules shall be enforced by the LRA, first by warning and then by temporary banning (the banned person shall be removed from the banlist as soon as the meeting is concluded); citizens may be temporarily banned by the LRA, but RA members shall not be banned except by supermajority vote of the RA.
2008/03/24 13:31 You: Now
2008/03/24 13:31 Naftali Torok: help
2008/03/24 13:31 You: needless to say the RA members all have that notecard
2008/03/24 13:31 You: AND
2008/03/24 13:31 Naftali Torok: ok
2008/03/24 13:32 You: we need better procedures for advance posting!
2008/03/24 13:32 You: which is … what this is about, ta-dum 🙂
2008/03/24 13:32 You: so
2008/03/24 13:32 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
2008/03/24 13:32 Moon Adamant: bit dense…
2008/03/24 13:32 Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
2008/03/24 13:32 You: is there a second to Beathan’s motion?
2008/03/24 13:32 You: ain;t no action without that, kids
2008/03/24 13:32 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/24 13:33 You: Coolio. NOW it;s a good time to talk, starting with Beathan & thePrincess who have requested it
2008/03/24 13:33 You: BV? TPP?
2008/03/24 13:34 Beathan Vale: ?
2008/03/24 13:34 ThePrincess? Parisi: beathan ..
2008/03/24 13:34 Beathan Vale: OK
2008/03/24 13:34 Beathan Vale: This procedure is designed to give us a streamlined, evenly balanced (fair) and known process for debate int he rA
2008/03/24 13:34 Beathan Vale: until now, the LRA has determined the extent and pace of debate – -and that leads to bad feelings
2008/03/24 13:35 Beathan Vale: also, RA sessions have run long — and keep getting longer
2008/03/24 13:35 Beathan Vale: This is an experiment to reign in these tendencies while allowing full and fair debate
2008/03/24 13:35 Beathan Vale: that is all
2008/03/24 13:35 You: Prin you had somethign too?
2008/03/24 13:35 ThePrincess? Parisi: no not anymore im good
2008/03/24 13:36 You: OK, Other RA member comments?
2008/03/24 13:36 MT Lundquist: none
2008/03/24 13:36 Sonja Strom: I would like to thank Beathan for all of his hard work on this.
2008/03/24 13:36 MT Lundquist: second
2008/03/24 13:36 ThePrincess? Parisi: amen
2008/03/24 13:36 Naftali Torok: lol
2008/03/24 13:37 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 13:37 You: I’ll give you my personal view. First, I suspect these are too structured — and more an attempt to deal with last month’s issues (LRA at odds with the RA). Cat’s out of that bag. So I have doubts about this. BUT I am biased! For one thing I’m LRA now. For another, I’m new here. So I am content to try these, if that’s what the majority wants to do.
2008/03/24 13:38 You: 9 minutes remain on our planned time for this. Any comments from citizens?
2008/03/24 13:38 Jamie Palisades looks around, hears nothing
2008/03/24 13:38 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
2008/03/24 13:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: then lets vote
2008/03/24 13:39 You: We ready for a vote then?
2008/03/24 13:39 Gwyneth Llewelyn: this particular citizen can only commend the RA’s attempt at more structured discussions and thank you all for the proposal.
2008/03/24 13:39 You: 🙂
2008/03/24 13:39 MT Lundquist: 🙂
2008/03/24 13:39 You: Members please state their vote. I abstain.
2008/03/24 13:39 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/24 13:39 MT Lundquist: aye
2008/03/24 13:39 ThePrincess? Parisi: aye
2008/03/24 13:40 You: I am going to hazard a guess that its author votes in favor also. I declare it passed. May we take its effective date as the start of the next meeting, so I don’t have to learn all this stuff in 20 seconds?
2008/03/24 13:41 Beathan Vale: aYE
2008/03/24 13:41 You: any object to kicking it off with next mtg? If I hear none I so rule
2008/03/24 13:41 Sonja Strom: I move that these rules take effect starting next session.
2008/03/24 13:41 ThePrincess? Parisi: second
2008/03/24 13:41 Sonja Strom: aye
2008/03/24 13:41 You: thx – no vote needed if no objections
2008/03/24 13:41 MT Lundquist: no objection
2008/03/24 13:42 Beathan Vale: no objection
2008/03/24 13:42 You: ok – hm – 4 mins left here – BV, do you want to take up another piece?
2008/03/24 13:42 Beathan Vale: I think that 4 is better than alt 4
2008/03/24 13:42 ThePrincess? Parisi: agree
2008/03/24 13:42 You: so you are moving it?
2008/03/24 13:42 Beathan Vale: alt 4 is like RL — but we are not so large that we need a filter between citizens and legslation
2008/03/24 13:42 Beathan Vale: So I move approval of 4
2008/03/24 13:43 MT Lundquist: second 2008/03/24 13:43 You: a second? 2008/03/24 13:43 ThePrincess? Parisi: second 2008/03/24 13:43 Sonja Strom: aye 2008/03/24 13:43 You: OK and here it is: “4. Any citizen may propose legislation to the RA by: 1. emailing the proposal to the LRA; 2. giving the LRA a proposal inworld on notecard; or 3. posting specifically proposed text in the “legislative discussion” forum in a post that specifically requests that the LRA add the proposal to the agenda. ” 2008/03/24 13:43 Beathan Vale: Also — i think that 5 is no longer needed given passage of the procedures we passed 2008/03/24 13:43 You: comments from RA members? 2008/03/24 13:43 You: on 4 that is 2008/03/24 13:43 MT Lundquist: none 2008/03/24 13:43 Jamie Palisades suspects none, all having already stated their love for it 2008/03/24 13:43 Sonja Strom: I agree with Beathan on his choice. 2008/03/24 13:44 Beathan Vale: move 4 2008/03/24 13:44 You: comments from citizens on proposed motion “#4” about citizens proposing legislation? 2008/03/24 13:44 Sonja Strom: second 2008/03/24 13:44 You: Already got motion & second, thx 2008/03/24 13:44 Sonja Strom: sorry 2008/03/24 13:44 You: no comments? happy thanes all? 2008/03/24 13:45 Jamie Palisades looks around for type-y gestures … 2008/03/24 13:45 Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* 2008/03/24 13:45 MT Lundquist: prin crashed i think 2008/03/24 13:45 You: Are we ready to vote? 2008/03/24 13:45 Beathan Vale: aye and aye 2008/03/24 13:45 You: s’ok 2008/03/24 13:45 You: OK, members please state your vote. 2008/03/24 13:45 Sonja Strom: aye 2008/03/24 13:45 MT Lundquist: aye 2008/03/24 13:45 You: and we have BV = aye 2008/03/24 13:45 You: and I vote aye 2008/03/24 13:46 Beathan Vale: Again — paragraph 5 is no longer needed — so I withdraw it 2008/03/24 13:46 You: no one having complained otherwise, we are quorate, so I suggest we note #4 passing with one abstension. I declare it so. 2008/03/24 13:46 You: And BV is going to take a pass on #5 – whicih I agree makes sense. 2008/03/24 13:46 You: Agenda item completed. === 2008/03/24 13:47 You: next item = #6, volunteers 2008/03/24 13:47 Beathan Vale: As we are running out of time, I would like to move to continue 2008/03/24 13:47 You: but that’s prin’s, hm 2008/03/24 13:47 You: continue what? 2008/03/24 13:47 Beathan Vale: 6-8 to next session 2008/03/24 13:47 MT Lundquist: i’m sure she will be back shortly 2008/03/24 13:47 MT Lundquist: she has router problems 2008/03/24 13:47 Beathan Vale: and move to open discussion and discussion of the future of the CDS 2008/03/24 13:48 Beathan Vale: I can’t stay passed 2 — senior partner hovering 2008/03/24 13:48 You: ah, OK, the proposal is to move agenda item 10 to the next item 2008/03/24 13:48 You: any objections? 2008/03/24 13:48 MT Lundquist: agreed 2008/03/24 13:48 Sonja Strom: I agree with Beathan. === 2008/03/24 13:49 You: OK: CDS strategy. Let me ask – do we need a citizen open mic session in this meeting, Mr. Rule Reform with a Mohawk? 2008/03/24 13:50 Beathan Vale: if citizens are interested — we should hear them 2008/03/24 13:50 Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear (pun intended) 2008/03/24 13:50 Beathan Vale: Salzie is not here – -and one of the discussion items was hers 2008/03/24 13:50 You: ok. Kick off the “strategic” item with any comments from RA members? 2008/03/24 13:50 ThePrincess? Parisi: sorry 2008/03/24 13:51 You: NP Prin will IM you with what you missed, now 2008/03/24 13:51 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok i crashed 2008/03/24 13:51 Beathan Vale: I see the need for us to grow much faster than we have — 2008/03/24 13:51 ThePrincess? Parisi: you have to start a new conference of IM 2008/03/24 13:51 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂 2008/03/24 13:51 Beathan Vale: and, in doing that, become more like the Federal system we have modeled in our Constitution 2008/03/24 13:52 Beathan Vale: if we don’t, and retain like a little township, we will need great reform to reconcile our small size with our pretensions 2008/03/24 13:52 Beathan Vale: so — I tend to disagree with Salzie that the planning should come first — I would be happy to let us grow organically — and grow into ourselves that way 2008/03/24 13:52 Beathan Vale: we have a state system we have not yet lived up to and filled out — but we can 2008/03/24 13:52 Beathan Vale: that is all 2008/03/24 13:53 Moon Adamant: like in the mainland? 🙂 2008/03/24 13:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: lol moon 2008/03/24 13:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn notices the ‘federal’ swearword popping in 2008/03/24 13:53 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉 2008/03/24 13:53 Beathan Vale: no — not like the Mainland — we will have controlled and regualted growth 2008/03/24 13:53 Beathan Vale: and no advertising
2008/03/24 13:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: of course its not mainland 2008/03/24 13:53 ThePrincess? Parisi: its private sims did you know you dont pay tier to the lindens moon 2008/03/24 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: the mainland scare tactic
2008/03/24 13:54 Beathan Vale: we can control things with an architecture control committee and land use regulations
2008/03/24 13:54 Jamie Palisades smiles – no proble with this being freeform, but let’s not lose the points bieng made. Beathan says “fast growth” is an imperative. Is that a widely shared view?
2008/03/24 13:54 MT Lundquist: yes
2008/03/24 13:54 ThePrincess? Parisi: im thnking more having a thing like a competitive bid process since the volunteer system seems so stretched and well, not willing
2008/03/24 13:54 Sonja Strom: yes, in the DPU it is. 2008/03/24 13:55 Beathan Vale: there is some disgreement on this in the SP
2008/03/24 13:55 ThePrincess? Parisi: all manifestos professed a desire for growth
2008/03/24 13:55 Jamie Palisades notes his gratitude for our volunteers and leaves it at that for the moment
2008/03/24 13:55 Beathan Vale: some want more deliberate growth
2008/03/24 13:55 ThePrincess? Parisi: all of them with the majoirtiy p factions being the most outrageous
2008/03/24 13:55 Beathan Vale: but I go for growth “with all deliberate speed”
2008/03/24 13:55 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
2008/03/24 13:56 ThePrincess? Parisi: of course jamie we all want to honor volunteers .. and i have a bill a month or two old that says that
2008/03/24 13:56 ThePrincess? Parisi: can cindy speak please
2008/03/24 13:57 Jamie Palisades mutters which is on our agenda but was delayed to after this item, so it’s probably a next week thing
2008/03/24 13:57 You: yes please Cindy 2008/03/24 13:57 Cindy Ecksol: regarding the new sim development process: it seems to me that the slowness of the process is NOT about the availability of qualified volunteers, but about the guild process for setting up the group that will do the work
2008/03/24 13:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: interesting tell us more 2008/03/24 13:58 ThePrincess? Parisi: i had no idea
2008/03/24 13:58 Cindy Ecksol: not sure a “competitive bidding process” bill will fix that problem — more likely just annoy the guild
2008/03/24 13:58 You: (ahem) please continue 2008/03/24 13:58 Moon Adamant listens
2008/03/24 13:59 Cindy Ecksol: there are plenty of alts who are willing to work on building for sure, and I suspect there are some who would help with the design. just have to figure out a way to get them organized.
2008/03/24 13:59 Cindy Ecksol: everything seems to be falling on the backs of those who have the least time available —
2008/03/24 14:00 Cindy Ecksol: not sure how to fix this, but there ought to be a way….
2008/03/24 14:00 Beathan Vale: I have to go — thanks for coming, all
2008/03/24 14:00 Cindy Ecksol: not alts…meant avs…
2008/03/24 14:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: thank you beathan
2008/03/24 14:00 MT Lundquist: bye beathan
2008/03/24 14:00 Moon Adamant: see you Beathan
2008/03/24 14:00 You: thanks.
2008/03/24 14:00 ThePrincess? Parisi: moon how do we fix that.. may i comment
2008/03/24 14:00 Moon Adamant: may i speak, after you Princess?
2008/03/24 14:01 Pip Torok: I have to go now as well.
2008/03/24 14:01 Moon Adamant: bye Pip 🙂
2008/03/24 14:01 Symo Kurka: bye Pip
2008/03/24 14:01 You: This is open chat so I see no reason bot to continue insofrmally if opeople wish – any objection to that from RA members?
2008/03/24 14:01 Sonja Strom: bye Pip 🙂
2008/03/24 14:01 You: sorry for the typos – bye Pip – shall we go on, then, for now?
2008/03/24 14:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: only that i have been to guild meetings.. and for example instead of having a call out for volutneers in the whole.. then the guild.. will decide who they want of the old shcool to do a thing
2008/03/24 14:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: and not open it to everyone
2008/03/24 14:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: i have seen that with my own oeyes
2008/03/24 14:01 Moon Adamant: listens
2008/03/24 14:01 ThePrincess? Parisi: and had myself called down when i mentioned it
2008/03/24 14:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: we have tons of new ppl who want WANT to help
2008/03/24 14:02 You: Hm. Well, I see a couple of ways for ThePreincess? to address that if she believes she as a participant has been excluded. But none of them involve a debate of personalities here.
2008/03/24 14:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: and i am amazed at the old school trying to keep a thing to down
2008/03/24 14:02 Moon Adamant: may i speak?
2008/03/24 14:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: no ep personalities were mentioned
2008/03/24 14:02 You: A sec, please
2008/03/24 14:02 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes im done 2008/03/24 14:02 You: Fine. Moon?
2008/03/24 14:02 Moon Adamant waits for LRA 2008/03/24 14:02 Moon Adamant: ok 2008/03/24 14:03 Moon Adamant: first of all
2008/03/24 14:03 Delia Lake: It is my recollection that notices of guild meetings go out to the CDS as a whole. sorry for speaking out of turn
2008/03/24 14:03 Moon Adamant: the charter of the guild is very specific
2008/03/24 14:03 Moon Adamant: all citizens of teh CDS can belong to the Guild board
2008/03/24 14:03 Moon Adamant: they are welcome 2008/03/24 14:04 Moon Adamant: we hold meetiings regularly,m which are duly announced
2008/03/24 14:04 Moon Adamant: btw, and on a side issue 2008/03/24 14:04 Moon Adamant: i just published a proposal of procedures for teh board meetings
2008/03/24 14:04 Moon Adamant: seeing that they’re generally well attended 2008/03/24 14:04 Moon Adamant: and to try and fix the informal rules we already use
2008/03/24 14:05 Moon Adamant: and specify more clearly quorums for votations and meetings themselves
2008/03/24 14:05 Moon Adamant: also, Faculty will publish its own rules hmmm
2008/03/24 14:05 Moon Adamant: opportunately
2008/03/24 14:05 Moon Adamant: seeing that they have to calculate quorum in a different way
2008/03/24 14:06 Moon Adamant: so
2008/03/24 14:06 Moon Adamant: if people do not appear at guild meetings
2008/03/24 14:06 Moon Adamant: which are open to everyone
2008/03/24 14:06 Moon Adamant: and wheereveryone is heard
2008/03/24 14:06 Moon Adamant: is because tehy don’t want to
2008/03/24 14:07 You: Moon, let me know when you’re done, pls, no rush
2008/03/24 14:07 Moon Adamant: we’re even now trying to discuss a better time for guild meeting to pull up attendance
2008/03/24 14:07 Moon Adamant: so, i do not understand
2008/03/24 14:07 Moon Adamant: what do you mean Princess
2008/03/24 14:07 You: han gon
2008/03/24 14:07 ThePrincess? Parisi: ok
2008/03/24 14:08 You: letme insert myself before this becomes more debate than discussion, please
2008/03/24 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: well first.. well then np we buy a sim when we have one presented and build one we can……….
2008/03/24 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: and second …
2008/03/24 14:08 ThePrincess? Parisi: we need to see evidence of every position and job being posted for all of the community to do 2008/03/24 14:08 Jamie Palisades waits for ThePrincess’s next (and last) comment for the moment
2008/03/24 14:09 ThePrincess? Parisi: so everyone has a chance to share.. i know there are ppl dying to share, they come to me and ask .. we need them all to FEEL welcome.. so suggeetions on that
2008/03/24 14:09 Moon Adamant raises her hadn again, after pincess ends
2008/03/24 14:09 Moon Adamant: Princes*
2008/03/24 14:09 Moon Adamant: Princess* sorry
2008/03/24 14:09 You: ok. ===
2008/03/24 14:09 You: can we interrupt for a time/agenda check please
2008/03/24 14:09 Moon Adamant: surely
2008/03/24 14:10 Naftali Torok: good, i have to say good bye also now,
2008/03/24 14:10 Naftali Torok: other duties are calling me
2008/03/24 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: bye naffie
2008/03/24 14:10 You: we’re over scheduled time and I do not think we will have any more *offical* business today, so I do want to release RA members from their obligations here
2008/03/24 14:10 Moon Adamant: bye naftali! 🙂
2008/03/24 14:10 MT Lundquist: bye naftali
2008/03/24 14:10 Sonja Strom: bye Naftali
2008/03/24 14:10 Naftali Torok: thanks everybody
2008/03/24 14:10 You: if folks want to continue to chat informally, fine …
2008/03/24 14:10 Moon Adamant: hello Rose 🙂
2008/03/24 14:10 Sonja Strom: Hi Rose 🙂
2008/03/24 14:10 You: … thanks Naftali …
2008/03/24 14:10 MT Lundquist: hi Rose 2008/03/24 14:10 ThePrincess? Parisi: hi rose
2008/03/24 14:10 Moon Adamant: well, Jamie 2008/03/24 14:10 Symo Kurka: hello rose
2008/03/24 14:10 You: .. and I suspect some informal chat *is* needed
2008/03/24 14:10 Rose Springvale: hi
2008/03/24 14:11 Moon Adamant: i myself have some work to do, but i can give you all a few more minutes
2008/03/24 14:11 Naftali Torok: welcome for a drink in the AM Taverna , will keep you informed when we are ready for the first mucsic event there
2008/03/24 14:11 Sonja Strom: The Forums can be a good resource too, for discussion.
2008/03/24 14:11 Moon Adamant: would you care to time the rest of teh discussion please? suggest a duration?
2008/03/24 14:11 Naftali Torok: waves a cold snowy hug from Holland……
2008/03/24 14:11 You: Would anyone object to our adjoruning the RA meeting, and continuing informally, for say 20 mins?
2008/03/24 14:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: we will be there soon naf
2008/03/24 14:11 Rose Springvale: waves to all her friends and tries not to disrupt
2008/03/24 14:11 You: (with no attendance obligations)
2008/03/24 14:11 ThePrincess? Parisi: second on adjourn and 20
2008/03/24 14:11 Sonja Strom: no objection to that.
2008/03/24 14:12 MT Lundquist: i’m happy jamie
2008/03/24 14:12 Moon Adamant: i second
2008/03/24 14:12 You: Ok. hearing none, RA is adjourned, thank you, and Moon, it was your turn to chat?
2008/03/24 14:12 Moon Adamant: if Princess has finished?
2008/03/24 14:12 ThePrincess? Parisi: yes
2008/03/24 14:12 Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody for being here!~RA Meeting; March 30, 2008
1b. Note the new RA meeting procedural rules and their effects. (J Palisades)
1c. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1d. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1e. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
(1.f.1) Proposal to make the no-hub status of Colonia Nova permanent (A Kurka)
2a. Proposal to reduce the number of RA members from 7 to 5 temporarily until the two vacant seats are filled by election. (B Vale)
2b. Proposal to adopt an RA rule regarding how quorum is calculated. (J Palisades)
2c. Other?
3b. Permanent change to number of RA members
3c. Other?
7a. Report from New Guild, reactions/questions to RA resolutions on sim plan, location (M Adamant)
7b. Guild expectations regarding fourth sim timing (M Adamant)
7c. RA expectations & any financial considerations regarding fourth sim timing
7d. Other?
Summary
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
===
[12;10] Called to order.
[12:08] 1b – Note on new RA operating procedures.
[12:13] 1c – Agenda reviewed and modified.
[12;19] 1d – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[12:24] 1e – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[12:24] 1f – Consent agenda. Alexicon Kurka proposal to make nonhub status of Colonia Nova permanent: Motion adopted 5-0-0.
[12:30] 2 – Representative Assembly quorum and vote counting.
— Motion stated at [12:44]. Motion re-stated at [12:54]. Motion adopted 4-1-0 at 12:59.
[13:00] 3 – Election rules.
— Motion stated at [13:14], based on description at [13:09].
—- Amendment stated at [13:17].
—— Amendment to amendment stated at [13:18]. Accepted as friendly amendment at [13:18].
—- Amendment (as amended) adopted 5-0-0 at [13:29].
— Motion (as amended) adopted 5-0-0 at [13:32].
[13:32] 3b – Permanent changes to RA size – discussion only.
[13:38] 4 – By-election date.
— Motion stated at [13:57]. Motion adopted 5-0-0 at [14:00].
[14:04] Adjournment.
Transcript
Transcript of 30 March 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “===” inserted to separate agenda items
===
[2008/03/30 12:07] You: Any objection to us beginning? Beathan’s bill has us on a tight schedule 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:07] Patroklus Murakami: you only did 1-3
[2008/03/30 12:07] MT Lundquist: hi gwyn
[2008/03/30 12:07] Beathan Vale: let’s go
[2008/03/30 12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi 😉
[2008/03/30 12:07] You: it would of course require that we hold the Land debate until it comes up …
[2008/03/30 12:07] Troy McLuhan: Hi
[2008/03/30 12:07] You: good
[2008/03/30 12:07] You: Hello al
[2008/03/30 12:07] Beathan Vale: Pat — not true — read the transcript
[2008/03/30 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: hi
[2008/03/30 12:07] You: OK. ENOUGH
[2008/03/30 12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/03/30 12:07] You: please hold further land spats for the ‘land spat’ item – which we certainly do have 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: and pat, beathan is a lawyer
[2008/03/30 12:08] You: Prin. Out of order. As will anyone else be. Hush, all, please.
[2008/03/30 12:08] Beathan Vale: lol — not that that means much
[2008/03/30 12:08] Beathan Vale: OK
[2008/03/30 12:08] ThePrincess Parisi: oh did we start?
[2008/03/30 12:08] You: We’re in session. 5 out of 5 seated RA members present.
[2008/03/30 12:08] You: As of now, Prin. Please note our agenda here:
[2008/03/30 12:08] You: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1699
[2008/03/30 12:08] You: Which I am following – and which has time limits.
[2008/03/30 12:09] You: First, woudl everyone present please assent to being recorded in our transcript.
[2008/03/30 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi shivers
[2008/03/30 12:09] You: I assent.
[2008/03/30 12:09] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/03/30 12:09] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/03/30 12:09] Patroklus Murakami: i consent to being recorded
[2008/03/30 12:09] Pip Torok: i assent
[2008/03/30 12:09] Danton Sideways: I assent
[2008/03/30 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: i do too
[2008/03/30 12:09] Troy McLuhan: Me too
[2008/03/30 12:10] Sonja Strom: Welcome Cynwulf, please have a seat.
[2008/03/30 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi waves at troy
[2008/03/30 12:10] You: Thanks, Beathan would you look and see if we missed any, as a favor?
[2008/03/30 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn definitely does, so long as you use a Creative Commons Attribution License on all my words
[2008/03/30 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/03/30 12:10] You: 🙂 let’s talk Gwyn about how to make that happen more generally?
[2008/03/30 12:10] You: later of course
[2008/03/30 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
====
[2008/03/30 12:10] You: item 1b
[2008/03/30 12:11] You: I call to your attention that we have some new methods that were proposed at the last meeting
[2008/03/30 12:11] You: They result in there being times and limits on each posted agenda item
[2008/03/30 12:11] Cynwulf Darwin: Sorry, O’m lagging
[2008/03/30 12:11] You: for today if no one objects, since Beathan wrote that procedure I will ask him informally to help me keep track of those times
[2008/03/30 12:12] Sonja Strom: no objection
[2008/03/30 12:12] You: for the future I think we need a parliamentarian, and will suggest something about that by our next meeting
[2008/03/30 12:12] Sonja Strom: …except, he might have crashed.
[2008/03/30 12:12] You: haha
[2008/03/30 12:12] Sonja Strom: Welcome Alexicon.
[2008/03/30 12:13] You: hello all.
[2008/03/30 12:13] Alexicon Kurka: hi
[2008/03/30 12:13] You: Well, when Beathan is here 🙂 I will ask for his informal help as available, then
====
[2008/03/30 12:13] You: next is item 1c
[2008/03/30 12:13] You: please review our agenda – at the Forum URI posted in open chat a few minutes ago
[2008/03/30 12:14] You: no action needed unless anyone wishes to amend .. and I have two items on that
[2008/03/30 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: anyone needs a notecard agenda
[2008/03/30 12:14] Alexicon Kurka: yes please
[2008/03/30 12:14] You: 1. Is everyone on the RA OK with Alexicon’s proposal to make nonhub permanent in CN being a no-fuyss consent item? He posted his recommendation last week
[2008/03/30 12:14] Jamie Palisades looks around for reactions
[2008/03/30 12:15] Sonja Strom: I think it is good.
[2008/03/30 12:15] Troy McLuhan: May I comment?
[2008/03/30 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/03/30 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: it has been a great success and i hear NFS needs it too actually
[2008/03/30 12:15] MT Lundquist: i’m happy for a no specific tp yes
[2008/03/30 12:15] You: Let’s see if there are any objhections first, Troy, if all agree, no need to debate
[2008/03/30 12:15] Troy McLuhan: When I teleport to “Colonia Nove” with no coordinates speicified, I end up in some kind of store without a door – very confusing
[2008/03/30 12:15] Troy McLuhan: “Colonia Nova”
[2008/03/30 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/03/30 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: MTs shop
[2008/03/30 12:16] You: I hear no obj to it being a consent tiem – as item 1 f 1
[2008/03/30 12:16] You: ahem Troy? please wait for item 1 f 1 🙂 I will tell you
[2008/03/30 12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (good, I had the same objection as Troy too!)
[2008/03/30 12:16] You: second agenda amendment question – we are on item 1C posted at /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1699
[2008/03/30 12:17] You: Alexicon has reminded me that it’s time for his monthly report to the RA
[2008/03/30 12:17] You: as Chancellor
[2008/03/30 12:17] Alexicon Kurka: we can do that at the end of the RA
[2008/03/30 12:18] You: any RA member object?
[2008/03/30 12:18] You: we have 5 mins of slack as scheduled, smile
[2008/03/30 12:18] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/03/30 12:18] MT Lundquist: fine
[2008/03/30 12:18] Sonja Strom: no objection
[2008/03/30 12:19] You: good, done, ALexi is item – um – 11, moving open chat to 12
===
[2008/03/30 12:19] You: next item is 1d
[2008/03/30 12:19] You: This is simply a notice – please note: if you want to speak here …
[2008/03/30 12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[2008/03/30 12:20] You: on a specific item, you get some privilg\eged time to do so IF you notify me now 🙂 IM is fine too
[2008/03/30 12:20] You: just a sec Gwyn
[2008/03/30 12:20] Sonja Strom: wb Beathan 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:20] You: under Beathan’s 24 March rules, any citizen who wants to speak on an item gets special priority to speak if they say so now, smile. … and I have one request so far FYI.
[2008/03/30 12:20] You: Yes Gwyneth?
[2008/03/30 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just wanted to know if speaking on the agenda points is limited to RA members…
[2008/03/30 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if not, may I sign myself in for 2a.? 😉
[2008/03/30 12:21] Beathan Vale: no
[2008/03/30 12:21] You: nope 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/03/30 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
[2008/03/30 12:22] You: And let me refer to you the rules we are using: posted at:
[2008/03/30 12:22] You: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701&start=0&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
[2008/03/30 12:22] You: by the way
[2008/03/30 12:22] You: Patroklus has asked me some great questions about them – which we will need to work over – but I do not propose to takje them on live in today;s meeting
[2008/03/30 12:23] You: I hope to emulate the British model and “muddle through” for now 😀
[2008/03/30 12:23] You: so
[2008/03/30 12:23] You: Gwyn did you have a specific agenda item in mind, so we can save you a slot?
[2008/03/30 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2a
[2008/03/30 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: possibly 3b
[2008/03/30 12:24] Sonja Strom: I would like to speak on 3a
===
[2008/03/30 12:24] You: OK, done 🙂 agenda item 1e is ministerial announcement only:
[2008/03/30 12:24] You: if anyone sees flaws in the transcripts or summaries, please for heaven’s sake post to correct them, or let me know 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:24] ThePrincess Parisi: we got to talk as RA members anyway sonja
===
[2008/03/30 12:24] You: item 1 f 1
[2008/03/30 12:24] Sonja Strom: ok, thanks TP, I was wondering about that.
[2008/03/30 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:24] You: Alexicon has a suggestion about the CN hub – can you state it, Alexi?
[2008/03/30 12:25] Alexicon Kurka: The Ra has decided to have a trail period in order to test the influence of direct TP on Colonia Nova
[2008/03/30 12:25] Alexicon Kurka: This trial period has expired
[2008/03/30 12:26] Alexicon Kurka: and has been concluded by a citizen’s survey
[2008/03/30 12:26] Alexicon Kurka: The results of this survey is on the forums and supports making direct teleportation on Colonia Nova permanent
[2008/03/30 12:26] Alexicon Kurka: The RA should vote on that now
[2008/03/30 12:27] You: Here: /viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1692
[2008/03/30 12:27] You: May I suggest that until someone OBJECTS we treate it as consent without any debate
[2008/03/30 12:28] You: Troy? others> any prob with doing as Alexi suggested?
[2008/03/30 12:28] ThePrincess Parisi: not from me
[2008/03/30 12:28] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/03/30 12:28] Alexicon Kurka: You should also consider such a trial on NFS too
[2008/03/30 12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, no objections here either — and I definitely second Alex’s suggestion for NFS
[2008/03/30 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: ive heard citizens say that alexicon
[2008/03/30 12:29] You: OK I call for a vote, then. Need a motion?
[2008/03/30 12:29] Beathan Vale: I so move
[2008/03/30 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/03/30 12:29] You: Members please note your vote. I vote aye
[2008/03/30 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: vote for both?
[2008/03/30 12:29] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/03/30 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: just cn or that we do both
[2008/03/30 12:29] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/03/30 12:29] You: no for the agenda-ed item, CN only
[2008/03/30 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 12:29] Beathan Vale: just CN
[2008/03/30 12:29] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/03/30 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: kk
[2008/03/30 12:29] Beathan Vale: NFS not before us yet
[2008/03/30 12:29] You: 🙂 unanimous
[2008/03/30 12:29] Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:30] You: and thank you Alexi and Troy
[2008/03/30 12:30] You: and let’s have that NFS chat too – not gonna fit today though 😛
[2008/03/30 12:30] Alexicon Kurka: sure
===
[2008/03/30 12:30] You: 2 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:30] You: RA quorum
[2008/03/30 12:31] You: Beathan had indicated a plan to temporarily reduce the RA seat number
[2008/03/30 12:32] Beathan Vale: I would like to get the sense of the SC on that — it would be pointless if they will invalidate it after the fact
[2008/03/30 12:32] You: I have two citizens as well who wish to speak
[2008/03/30 12:32] Beathan Vale: that would create even more confusion
[2008/03/30 12:32] You: 🙂 I may suggest its not necessary
[2008/03/30 12:32] You: but irst
[2008/03/30 12:32] You: *first
[2008/03/30 12:32] You: I note no motion on the table
[2008/03/30 12:33] You: 🙂 nothing to discuss- yet
[2008/03/30 12:34] You: I think Gwyn and Pat both indicated an interst – do either of them wish to make short remarks now, failing any motion pending?
[2008/03/30 12:34] Beathan Vale: I want to hear from Gwynn in particular — I may withdraw my proposal
[2008/03/30 12:34] Patroklus Murakami: no thank you jamie. without a motion or proposal there’s really nothing to discuss 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:34] Patroklus Murakami: if there is a motion i’d like to speak to it when it appears
[2008/03/30 12:34] Beathan Vale: Pat — there is a proposal — just not moved yet
[2008/03/30 12:34] You: And I may have a new motion to propose after that, smile
[2008/03/30 12:34] Beathan Vale: debate then move is the usual form
[2008/03/30 12:34] Patroklus Murakami: sorry, what is teh proposal? is there a text?
[2008/03/30 12:35] You: hang on all 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woops sorry
[2008/03/30 12:35] Beathan Vale: “Pending By elections, the size of the RA shall be temporarily reduced to 5” – a Cosntitional amendment
[2008/03/30 12:35] Beathan Vale: very short and clear
[2008/03/30 12:35] You: Beathan has made a suggestion in the 24 March transcript. It has not yet been made as a fomal motion
[2008/03/30 12:35] You: so 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:35] Patroklus Murakami: ok i’d like to speak against that
[2008/03/30 12:35] You: Gwyn has the floor
[2008/03/30 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’ll let Pat speak first.
[2008/03/30 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just for one reason — if there’s no proposal,
[2008/03/30 12:36] You: then let’s get Pat’s take – noting, 2 minutes each I think
[2008/03/30 12:36] Beathan Vale: Gwyn — you are the person I want to hear from
[2008/03/30 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the SC should not talk about things that aren’t proposed
[2008/03/30 12:36] You: guys
[2008/03/30 12:36] Beathan Vale: depending on what you say, I may withdraw the proposal and save time
[2008/03/30 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/03/30 12:36] Beathan Vale: I have posted my proposal
[2008/03/30 12:36] You: GL and PM please elect to speak – or not – OK?
[2008/03/30 12:36] Beathan Vale: rather — I just stated it here
[2008/03/30 12:36] Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to speak
[2008/03/30 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat first please.
[2008/03/30 12:37] You: go for it
[2008/03/30 12:37] Patroklus Murakami: There are two main problems with this proposal. It does not achieve what it sets out to, and what it sets out to do is illegal in any case 🙂 This sets out to pretend that the two seats won by the CSDF in the general election don’t exist because the CSDF is choosing not to occupy them.
[2008/03/30 12:37] Patroklus Murakami: We might call it the ‘Zimbabwe proposal’ since it aims to disenfranchise part of the electorate through government dictat.
[2008/03/30 12:37] Patroklus Murakami: This is not permissible in a democracy. Boycotting a parliament is a perfectly legitimate tactic used by many groups as a protest. Sinn Fein, for example, regularly stood for elections to the House of Commons in the UK but did not take their seats because they saw the British ‘occupation’ of Northern Ireland as illegitimate.
[2008/03/30 12:37] Patroklus Murakami: The UK government did not then abolish the seats because it was inconvenient. That would have been illegal. To take away these two seats is to deprive voters of representation.
[2008/03/30 12:37] Patroklus Murakami: “Aah” you might say, “but the CSDF has already deprived the voters of representation by resigning and leaving the seats empty”. Well, no we haven’t. We have chosen to make a political statement by keeping the seats vacant.
[2008/03/30 12:37] Patroklus Murakami: It is up to the voters, at the by-election if we stand, and in the general election to express their views on that. This assembly does not have the right to delete those seats just because it is inconvenient and meetings may be more likely to become inquorate. It also sets a dreadful precedent if you think about it carefully.
[2008/03/30 12:38] Patroklus Murakami: But, I’m afraid this proposal does not achieve it’s desired aim. The January election result cannot be ignored.
[2008/03/30 12:38] Patroklus Murakami: f you reduce the number of seats from 7 to 5 temporarily you will have to fill the seats according to the vote in January *as if there were 5 seats*. By my reckoning that gives the CSDF two seats and Simplicity, NuCARE and the DPU one each.
[2008/03/30 12:38] Patroklus Murakami: In other words, if you pass this both Beathan and MT lose their seats! I’m pretty sure that’s not what’s intended but, it is the logical outcome!
[2008/03/30 12:38] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:38] You: thanks
[2008/03/30 12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent speech 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:38] You: Gwyn?
[2008/03/30 12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The comment is but a brief one.
[2008/03/30 12:39] Beathan Vale: I am more likely to support my proposal after hearing Pat — Gwyn
[2008/03/30 12:39] Beathan Vale: and Pat is wrong as a legal and Constitutional matter
[2008/03/30 12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As most of you know, the SC has refrained from doing anything but literal interpretations of the constitution.
[2008/03/30 12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, there are really some cases where the SC cannot cross the arms and be silent…
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem here is simple. The RA has two unalienable rights:
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) it can set the # of RA members (changing the constitution)
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) it does set the dates for elections and by-elections (it’s already there)
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So,
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in *theory*,
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nothing prevents the RA to set the number of members to “1”
[2008/03/30 12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (or even zero)
[2008/03/30 12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the date for the next elections to 2567.
[2008/03/30 12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In order to *prevent* that from happening,
[2008/03/30 12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the SC has a mandate to interpret the law being passed according to the founding documents
[2008/03/30 12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… nothing has been proposed… so discussions are fine,
[2008/03/30 12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: BUT…
[2008/03/30 12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: an attempt to suddenly change the election rules before the by-elections, or suddenly reducing the number of members of the RA *after* people have voted
[2008/03/30 12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is probably out of bounds, and will have to be considered by the SC
[2008/03/30 12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note —
[2008/03/30 12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the citizens vote for factions, and factions get seats
[2008/03/30 12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not necessarily ‘people’
[2008/03/30 12:42] You: me notes the time but thinks this important – just let us know when done please.
[2008/03/30 12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all mostly 😉
[2008/03/30 12:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we need seven seats i think
[2008/03/30 12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We HAVE 7 seats.
[2008/03/30 12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What we do is just 5 people for 7 seats 😉
[2008/03/30 12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that’s all — thank you Mr. LRA
[2008/03/30 12:43] You: 🙂 we will talk more abut seats soon I think
[2008/03/30 12:44] You: and thank you
[2008/03/30 12:44] You: so
[2008/03/30 12:44] You: no motion on the table. May I make one?
[2008/03/30 12:44] You: I see no objections
[2008/03/30 12:44] You: I have reviewed the constitution carefully and note a dozen or so references to quorum. Most say “2/33rds” or “majority” without any reference to seated reps versus total possible seats. …
[2008/03/30 12:45] You: One or two say “seats”. …
[2008/03/30 12:45] You: Proper legislative interpretation maixims guide us always to give effect to word distinctions. SO I conclude that where the Constitution says “seats” it means it – and where it does not, it is most likely to mean something different.
[2008/03/30 12:45] You: .. 🙂 …
[2008/03/30 12:45] MT Lundquist: makes sense
[2008/03/30 12:46] You: Also, the constitution permits the RA to set its own operating procedures, so long as they do not violate the constitution. And a rule by the RA to specify that all majority and supermajority votes shall be calculated based on the number of members then seated – except in those cases where the Constitution specifies seats -does not violate that Constitution
[2008/03/30 12:46] You: .. in my view, smile
[2008/03/30 12:46] MT Lundquist: i agree
[2008/03/30 12:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, very good point 😉
[2008/03/30 12:46] You: .. and it would solve Beathan’s issue about having a quorum risk, until the elections are over ..
[2008/03/30 12:46] You: so I so move.
[2008/03/30 12:46] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/03/30 12:46] You: Discussion?
[2008/03/30 12:47] You: we’re a bit over time in the aggregate, but not much
[2008/03/30 12:47] You: the practical effect: 2/3rds of 5, and 2/3rs of the RA, will be 4, until the new members are seated.
[2008/03/30 12:47] You: and we won’t need all 5 for quorum, smile
[2008/03/30 12:47] You: are you ready for a vote?
[2008/03/30 12:48] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/03/30 12:48] You: Members please note their votes – I vote aye
[2008/03/30 12:48] Sonja Strom: Although I don’t have so strong a feeling about this as Patroklus, I do agree with him. My view is, the RA has seven seats, and what we need is to hold the by-elections to fill the 2 empty ones. Simply that.
[2008/03/30 12:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (actually: “A vote in the RA is a simple majority vote of representative seats. Constitutional amendments require a 2/3 vote.”)
[2008/03/30 12:48] Sonja Strom: My vote is nay.
[2008/03/30 12:48] You: Let’s hold the vote
[2008/03/30 12:48] You: oh – never mind 🙂 sonja WAS ready to vote
[2008/03/30 12:49] You: sorry 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:49] Beathan Vale: what are we voting on?
[2008/03/30 12:49] Sonja Strom: Yes, sorry, I was typing a discussion comment.
[2008/03/30 12:50] You: OK, I choose to cancel the vote as having been prematurely started by me 🙂 if no-one objects
[2008/03/30 12:50] You: asking again: is there further comment?
[2008/03/30 12:50] Beathan Vale: on my 5 RA?
[2008/03/30 12:50] Jamie Palisades notes Gwyn’s change of view
[2008/03/30 12:50] You: no, BV, it’s not a motion
[2008/03/30 12:50] You: I made a motion
[2008/03/30 12:51] Beathan Vale: Based on Gwyn’s comments and FR’s post — and despite Pat’s partisan and legally incorrect speech, I withdraw my proposal
[2008/03/30 12:51] You: I object to the characterization of Pat, here, but note the proposal’s off the table
[2008/03/30 12:51] You: now
[2008/03/30 12:52] You: we need to dispose of my motion pls 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:52] You: should l restate it?
[2008/03/30 12:52] MT Lundquist: please
[2008/03/30 12:52] MT Lundquist: for clarity
[2008/03/30 12:54] You: I moved that the RA adopt a rule that all majority and supermajority votes – and let’s be clear and say meeting quorum also – shall be calculated based on the number of members then seated – except in those cases where the Constitution specifies seats. …
[2008/03/30 12:54] You: and it was seconded .. and it is up for discussion
[2008/03/30 12:54] You: anyone?
[2008/03/30 12:54] Beathan Vale: worth a shot — but I don’t know that this overcomes the problems raised by the SC
[2008/03/30 12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the Constitution does not define a quorum; only the old procedures of the RA stated “A quorum for all RA business is equal to a minimum of 50%+1 members in attendance.” which does not relate to seats)
[2008/03/30 12:55] Sonja Strom: To me this seems like another way of stating Beathan’s proposal.
[2008/03/30 12:55] Beathan Vale: let’s pass it — use it for this RA meeting — and send the SC a test case — based on, say, the Green Sims bill
[2008/03/30 12:55] You: How the SC welcomes our attempts to stay open for business – or does not welcome them – is a topic for their meeting at 4 am tomorrow 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true, true
[2008/03/30 12:56] MT Lundquist: the difference being its already law sonja i think
[2008/03/30 12:56] Sonja Strom: If it is already law, then do we need to consider it?
[2008/03/30 12:56] You: I will speak in favor then
[2008/03/30 12:57] You: I think RA members who resign should not, by doing so, be capable of prevent the RA from doing business. Even accidentally. It’s my view that the Constitution does not wish, or require, the RA to stop dead when a faction leaves 🙂 And I attribute NO intent to anyone – just noting the practical effects.
[2008/03/30 12:57] You: Done. Anyone else, or are we ready to vote?
[2008/03/30 12:57] Beathan Vale: Hear Hear
[2008/03/30 12:57] MT Lundquist: ready
[2008/03/30 12:57] Beathan Vale: so moved
[2008/03/30 12:58] Jamie Palisades looks around (heh – more carefully this time) – I see no type-y motions
[2008/03/30 12:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2008/03/30 12:58] You: OK then: members state your votes please
[2008/03/30 12:58] Beathan Vale: I can’t second my own motion
[2008/03/30 12:58] Beathan Vale: wait — no second on vote
[2008/03/30 12:58] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/03/30 12:58] Beathan Vale: kk
[2008/03/30 12:58] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/03/30 12:58] Sonja Strom: nay
[2008/03/30 12:58] You: no need, was moved and seconded earlier 🙂
[2008/03/30 12:59] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 12:59] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/03/30 12:59] You: I vote aye – and declare it passed by 4-1-0.
[2008/03/30 12:59] You: I note this is not a Constitutional amendment.
[2008/03/30 12:59] MT Lundquist: 🙂
===
[2008/03/30 12:59] You: and we move on to item 3
[2008/03/30 13:00] You: item 3 – election rules
[2008/03/30 13:00] You: I note that most o these items *would* be constitutional amendments
[2008/03/30 13:00] You: Prin, item 3a was yours? Minimum faction size?
[2008/03/30 13:01] ThePrincess Parisi: well this is something that i have talked with all RA members about so i am certain you all know
[2008/03/30 13:01] Beathan Vale: I want to address a global issue raised by Gwyn first
[2008/03/30 13:01] ThePrincess Parisi: and actually it wasnt even me first to tell it…..
[2008/03/30 13:02] You: Prin has the floor
[2008/03/30 13:03] You: m
[2008/03/30 13:03] You: Can I assume you are done, Prin?
[2008/03/30 13:03] Alexicon Kurka: I think she crashed
[2008/03/30 13:03] MT Lundquist: she crashed
[2008/03/30 13:03] You: if so Beathan’s up
[2008/03/30 13:03] Beathan Vale: tough day for crashing
[2008/03/30 13:03] You: ‘global issue’?
[2008/03/30 13:04] Beathan Vale: Gwyn indicates that there would be a “founding documents” problem if the RA changed the election rules prior to this election
[2008/03/30 13:04] MT Lundquist: i have her in voice
[2008/03/30 13:04] Beathan Vale: I don’t see it
[2008/03/30 13:04] You: see what?
[2008/03/30 13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “would” as in “possibly” — it’s a philosophical question, Beathan, not a constitutional one.
[2008/03/30 13:04] MT Lundquist: that there has been a dramatic increase in size since the first faction creation size of 3
[2008/03/30 13:05] Beathan Vale: the elections are called by the RA, and administered by the SC — based on the then-current election rules
[2008/03/30 13:05] Beathan Vale: thus, there is should be no problem with an election rule change
[2008/03/30 13:05] MT Lundquist: therefore the proposal is to have 5 min members of a faction
[2008/03/30 13:05] Beathan Vale: as long as elections are held — as required by the founding documents — there should be no founding documents problem based on the details of “election rules”
[2008/03/30 13:05] Beathan Vale: that is all
[2008/03/30 13:06] Beathan Vale: That said — I am not sure I support changing faction size or creation rules at this time
[2008/03/30 13:06] You: I have myself and Pat in queue
[2008/03/30 13:06] Beathan Vale: I think it is addressing a speculative problem about how (rumor has it) the CSDF will manipulate the election
[2008/03/30 13:06] You: others wish to speak?
[2008/03/30 13:07] You: done BV?
[2008/03/30 13:07] You: had your ‘two minutes” 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:07] Beathan Vale: Let’s give the CSDF a chance to behave appropriately before we assume they will do wrong
[2008/03/30 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (just on 3b, Jamie)
[2008/03/30 13:07] Beathan Vale: 😉
[2008/03/30 13:07] Beathan Vale: now that is really all
[2008/03/30 13:07] You: Pat? anything on this item? (You having given me notice)
[2008/03/30 13:07] Sonja Strom: I would like to speak about it, Jamie.
[2008/03/30 13:08] Sonja Strom: After the CSDF.
[2008/03/30 13:08] Patroklus Murakami: hmmm, i only wanted to speak on 2
[2008/03/30 13:08] You: OK thx. Sonja?
[2008/03/30 13:09] Sonja Strom: OK, the DPU has considered this, and we think the party size for participation in elections should reflect 10% of the total population, as a ratio that would increase if the CDS grows.
[2008/03/30 13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/03/30 13:09] You: how diff from current rule? No minimum?
[2008/03/30 13:09] MT Lundquist nods
[2008/03/30 13:10] You: ?
[2008/03/30 13:10] Sonja Strom: There is some disagreement in the DPU about whether this is how things used to be or not – some say it was once that way, others say it was only a consideration in the past.
[2008/03/30 13:11] Sonja Strom: I believe with the current size of the CDS, it would require 4 members per party to participate in the upcoming by-election.
[2008/03/30 13:11] You: Any more, Sonja?
[2008/03/30 13:11] Sonja Strom: Done, thanks!
[2008/03/30 13:11] Sonja Strom: wb ThePrincess 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:12] You: is that a motion that you wish to make at this time, Sonja? I believe it would pass even the, um, most hostile possible SC view on voting numbers, if unaninimous here.
[2008/03/30 13:12] ThePrincess Parisi: ty lost interenet
[2008/03/30 13:12] MT Lundquist: i support sonjas view
[2008/03/30 13:12] Sonja Strom: I would like to hear what ThePrincess wanted to say to us.
[2008/03/30 13:12] You: MT maybe you could send Prin the last few minutes of chat?
[2008/03/30 13:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont know what happened.. but the pop has grown
[2008/03/30 13:12] ThePrincess Parisi: and the size of a faction hasnt
[2008/03/30 13:12] You: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:13] ThePrincess Parisi: to start.. basically .. and with elimination off the slates
[2008/03/30 13:13] ThePrincess Parisi: then it is more imoportant to have a larger faction size to start with
[2008/03/30 13:13] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/03/30 13:13] You: And Sonja’s faction is suggesting a rule for increasing it – and you get your 2 minutes now 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:14] ThePrincess Parisi: ns iy esd and it was SP’s idea
[2008/03/30 13:14] You: I am hearing no more comments. I would vote for the plan I Sonja described if it were moved and seconded now.
[2008/03/30 13:14] ThePrincess Parisi: it was 10 percent when it was made i think
[2008/03/30 13:14] You: but it isn’t 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:14] MT Lundquist: move sonjas proposal
[2008/03/30 13:14] You: that’s what she proposed, yes
[2008/03/30 13:14] ThePrincess Parisi: but they didnt think of growth so we are just verifying what the founders wanted
[2008/03/30 13:14] Beathan Vale: second
[2008/03/30 13:15] ThePrincess Parisi: third
[2008/03/30 13:15] You: well there you go
[2008/03/30 13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* for a clarification on Sonja’s words
[2008/03/30 13:15] Patroklus Murakami: hmm, no not really
[2008/03/30 13:15] Patroklus Murakami: point of information mr chairman
[2008/03/30 13:15] Beathan Vale: I think we should specify that we round down
[2008/03/30 13:15] You: Let’s do discussion – Gwyn and then Pat
[2008/03/30 13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[2008/03/30 13:15] ThePrincess Parisi: oh me too round down
[2008/03/30 13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “I believe with the current size of the CDS, it would require 4 members per party to participate in the upcoming by-election.”
[2008/03/30 13:16] Beathan Vale: I think it is more like 6-7
[2008/03/30 13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Partys have two ways of being ‘counted’,
[2008/03/30 13:16] ThePrincess Parisi: yes that is true
[2008/03/30 13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one is the number of total members,
[2008/03/30 13:16] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2008/03/30 13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the other is the number of candidates for election (“the list”)
[2008/03/30 13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which of those two limits is the RA voting to change now?
[2008/03/30 13:16] Beathan Vale: members
[2008/03/30 13:16] ThePrincess Parisi: mmmmmm.. gwen
[2008/03/30 13:16] You: Gwyn has the floor
[2008/03/30 13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that was just the question, nothing more 🙂 )
[2008/03/30 13:17] ThePrincess Parisi: she asked a question
[2008/03/30 13:17] You: Done posing your Q?
[2008/03/30 13:17] ThePrincess Parisi: well gwyneth i think we should do two as well as one
[2008/03/30 13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ LRA
[2008/03/30 13:17] Beathan Vale: members — from 3 to 10% of pop
[2008/03/30 13:17] ThePrincess Parisi: i didnt even think of that
[2008/03/30 13:17] Sonja Strom: I would like to make a motion.
[2008/03/30 13:17] You: OK, Sonja & MT – you suggested and moved that 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thank you Beathan
[2008/03/30 13:17] Sonja Strom:
“The minimum size requirement for a party to participate in RA elections shall be 10% of the total CDS population, rounded down.”
[2008/03/30 13:17] You: Sonja, is it an amendment to the current motion?
[2008/03/30 13:17] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe tqo two candidates and then the ten percent
[2008/03/30 13:17] You: I will take it that way, hmn?
[2008/03/30 13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Sonja 🙂 it’s clear now.
[2008/03/30 13:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and what about candidates gwyn is right we need to clarify that
[2008/03/30 13:17] Cindy Ecksol still raising hand
[2008/03/30 13:18] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie see cindy
[2008/03/30 13:18] You: can we make that “faction” to use the constitutional term?
[2008/03/30 13:18] Beathan Vale: I don’t think we need to do anything with number of candidates right now
[2008/03/30 13:18] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/03/30 13:18] You: Yes – I have Pat then Cindy then others – but if the motion is seconded, it’s that amendment to which we all must speak
[2008/03/30 13:18] Sonja Strom: Is a party a faction before an election?
[2008/03/30 13:18] Beathan Vale: party=faction
[2008/03/30 13:18] Sonja Strom: OK
[2008/03/30 13:18] You: yup
[2008/03/30 13:18] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/03/30 13:18] You: OK do we have a second?
[2008/03/30 13:19] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/03/30 13:19] Beathan Vale: wait — Cindy
[2008/03/30 13:19] You: OK then
[2008/03/30 13:19] You: psst
[2008/03/30 13:19] Sonja Strom: My RL understanding of a faction is that it is a party in Parliament.
[2008/03/30 13:19] You: Pat first then Cindy – if Pat has more
[2008/03/30 13:19] Patroklus Murakami: the reason for having a faction size of 3 had nothing to do with population size
[2008/03/30 13:19] Patroklus Murakami: it was the minimum size for a group set by Linden Lab
[2008/03/30 13:19] Patroklus Murakami: and the rules stated that you needed to form a group to have a faction
[2008/03/30 13:20] ThePrincess Parisi: then its two now
[2008/03/30 13:20] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think raising the bar is such a good idea
[2008/03/30 13:20] Patroklus Murakami: it doesn’t affect us but…. some of the other factions would have had to disband if this rule had been in force for the last year 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:20] Sonja Strom: I would like to hear from Cindy too.
[2008/03/30 13:21] You: Pat, if that’s your two minutes, I have Cindy, me, and – well – we’ll see.
[2008/03/30 13:21] Patroklus Murakami: so, ‘look before you leap’ 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:21] You: Cindy? thx for your patience
[2008/03/30 13:21] Cindy Ecksol: ok, most democracies have a process for putting a candidate from a “new” party on the ballot that involves getting a certain number of signatures, usually based on a percentage of population from the voting district affected
[2008/03/30 13:22] Cindy Ecksol: there usually is no requirement for “party size” and I think the discussion here substantiates the idea that party size was simply a “code limitation” and not one that had any necessary basis in democratic principles
[2008/03/30 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: so what I would propose it that if you want to set a number for “people” in a party, the number you set should be the number of candidates standing for election. My feeling is that each party should post at least the same number of candidates required to fill a majority of the seats in the RA
[2008/03/30 13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:24] Cindy Ecksol: that makes a lot more sense than requiring a certain number of people in the party, gets us out of the business of claiming manipulation of the party lists and so on.
[2008/03/30 13:24] You: time? finished?
[2008/03/30 13:24] Cindy Ecksol: and it also resolves the problem that we had in the last election where a party won more seats than it had posted candidates for
[2008/03/30 13:24] Cindy Ecksol: yes, I’m done now
[2008/03/30 13:24] ThePrincess Parisi: good point cindy we can do both i think
[2008/03/30 13:24] You: Thanks – intelligent and helpful idea. But actually a completely different action – worth its own thought – different from the motion on the table. I’m in queue next. My own view is that I fear small factions being created purely to game or grief the system – at some future time – and so favor Sonja’s proposal as it is now moved, seconded and amended here.
[2008/03/30 13:24] Cindy Ecksol: excuse me, but I don’t think we need to do both that’s my point
[2008/03/30 13:25] You: SO I guess I am agreeing with Prin
[2008/03/30 13:25] ThePrincess Parisi: hmm.. well
[2008/03/30 13:25] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:25] You: is there further disvussion? Here’s why I ask: an agenda note – we are behind. That’s OK – but any member can move to close debate and if they do, and there are objections, I will call for an immediate RA vote to close the discussion. Only way to keep to a schedule.
[2008/03/30 13:25] ThePrincess Parisi: lets vote
[2008/03/30 13:25] Beathan Vale: Cindy — 1. we are discussing, as part od election reform, a move to direct election of individual candidates — possibly without faction affiliation; 2. we vote for factions, not persons, so it should not matter if a factgion has twenty candidates or noe beofre the election
[2008/03/30 13:25] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/03/30 13:25] You: so: further new comments? we have an amendment on the table
[2008/03/30 13:26] Sonja Strom: I do see how bringing up Cindy’s idea is appropriate for consideration.
[2008/03/30 13:26] Cindy Ecksol: no, I do not favor moving to direct election.
[2008/03/30 13:26] Sonja Strom: However, I don’t agree with her proposal for a couple of reasons.
[2008/03/30 13:26] Cindy Ecksol: but I think it is important that people know when they vote for the faction who is likely to fill the seats and can indicate their preferences
[2008/03/30 13:26] You: Sigh, smile – SOnja – hers is NOT onthe table just yet – can we discuss it after handling the current one?
[2008/03/30 13:27] Sonja Strom: This is getting off-topic a bit, yes.
[2008/03/30 13:27] Cindy Ecksol: sorry!
[2008/03/30 13:27] Beathan Vale: ok — Sonja — can you accept the amendments a friendly? I think they are
[2008/03/30 13:27] Cindy Ecksol: I was mostly speaking against the current proposal
[2008/03/30 13:27] Sonja Strom: What were the amenments?
[2008/03/30 13:27] You: Members are you ready to vote on Sonjs’s AMENDMENT? As she stated – but using the word ‘faction’
[2008/03/30 13:27] Sonja Strom: OK
[2008/03/30 13:27] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/03/30 13:28] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/03/30 13:28] You: Good, smile. Members please state your votes. I vote aye.
[2008/03/30 13:28] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/03/30 13:28] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/03/30 13:28] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/03/30 13:29] ThePrincess Parisi: qye
[2008/03/30 13:29] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 13:29] Cindy Ecksol thinks oy!
[2008/03/30 13:29] You: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:29] You: Now we are on the main motion as amended – which pretty much is the text of the amendment. It requires a vote. I think you are ready to vote without re-hashing?
[2008/03/30 13:29] ThePrincess Parisi: yikes
[2008/03/30 13:29] Jamie Palisades mutters: and let’s talk more about that idea Cindy -in its own time
[2008/03/30 13:30] You: trust me guys, you need to vote now to approve the original motion as Sonja amended it
[2008/03/30 13:30] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/03/30 13:30] MT Lundquist: k
[2008/03/30 13:30] You: I suggest you are ready to vote. If no objections, I vote aye (again:P)
[2008/03/30 13:30] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/03/30 13:30] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/03/30 13:30] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 13:31] Jamie Palisades reaches over and twangs a mohawk
[2008/03/30 13:31] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/03/30 13:32] You: ah good. I declare it passed and will notify the SC
[2008/03/30 13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:32] You: Let’s take up Cindy’s point next meeting, too
===
[2008/03/30 13:32] MT Lundquist: yes i would like to discuss that
[2008/03/30 13:32] You: Several do. Let just mention this —
[2008/03/30 13:33] You: I put item 3b on the agenda just to dispose of it. So far as I know there are no proposals to cut down the RA size *for now*. Some have spoken for it as a possible future change, though. May I confirm that there;s no such plan *for now*, and we are unambiguously sticking with the constitutional calculation of 7 RA members for this term?
[2008/03/30 13:33] You: and if some one DOES want to change it NOW, let’s hear it
[2008/03/30 13:33] Beathan Vale: no — Pat had a proposal for a permanent reduction to 5
[2008/03/30 13:33] You: I have MT, and Pat
[2008/03/30 13:33] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/03/30 13:34] You: and will assume we are talking about NEXT term, then, good. Discussion: MT?
[2008/03/30 13:34] MT Lundquist: I’m happy with the existing arrangement
[2008/03/30 13:34] MT Lundquist: ie 7 seats
[2008/03/30 13:34] ThePrincess Parisi: me too
[2008/03/30 13:35] ThePrincess Parisi: per pop size.. but what about by elections has the pop changed
[2008/03/30 13:35] Moon Adamant waves silently hello to everyone present
[2008/03/30 13:35] ThePrincess Parisi: or is it when we started?
[2008/03/30 13:35] ThePrincess Parisi: idk
[2008/03/30 13:35] Beathan Vale: should be current pop at time of election
[2008/03/30 13:35] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/03/30 13:35] Patroklus Murakami: this was my proposal. but it clearly doesn’t have support yet so I’ll propose it another time
[2008/03/30 13:35] You: Well, Prin, seems to me that scheme is measure once every six months, but we can al;ways ask the SC, smile
[2008/03/30 13:36] You: MT is done? Then Patroklus has the floor
[2008/03/30 13:36] ThePrincess Parisi: i see
[2008/03/30 13:36] Patroklus Murakami: i’ve said my piece
[2008/03/30 13:36] You: OK, I note no motion and no immediate plans for one. I suggest we move on – for now.
[2008/03/30 13:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn reminds the LRA that I asked to talk on 3b… 😉
[2008/03/30 13:37] You: Oh yes, but thought I heard you pass, sorry, please do – noting no active motion
[2008/03/30 13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just wished to remind that: “there shall be a special election to fill, for the remainder of the term, the seats left vacant.”
[2008/03/30 13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so the by-election is just for 2 seats, since 2 seats were left vacant.
[2008/03/30 13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No more and no less 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all — thank you
[2008/03/30 13:38] You: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:38] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you gwyniieee
===
[2008/03/30 13:38] You: item 4
[2008/03/30 13:38] You: date for that election
[2008/03/30 13:39] Beathan Vale: Gwynn — what is the soonest possible?
[2008/03/30 13:39] You: as I recall one must have 15 days for candidacy, then 7 days to run it, no?
[2008/03/30 13:39] You: G?
[2008/03/30 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: two weeks campaigning starting immediately after this meeting, one week voting, unless the RA changes the rules
[2008/03/30 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Jamie
[2008/03/30 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and candidates willing to serve should email Claude asap 😉
[2008/03/30 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. today lol
[2008/03/30 13:40] You: SO you are saying that the campagining must start as soon as we leave this room? That suggests zero hours to declare candidacies
[2008/03/30 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not “must”
[2008/03/30 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but “could”
[2008/03/30 13:40] You: are you sayins that’s a constitutional requirement, dear?
[2008/03/30 13:41] ThePrincess Parisi: can
[2008/03/30 13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you set the dates 😉
[2008/03/30 13:41] You: ah – “soonest” – got it
[2008/03/30 13:41] ThePrincess Parisi: and when does a faction have to be declared ..
[2008/03/30 13:41] Beathan Vale: we need some time for declarations — say an additional week
[2008/03/30 13:41] Beathan Vale: I need to twist some SP arms
[2008/03/30 13:41] ThePrincess Parisi: there was a time nuCARE had to declare before the elecion olast time
[2008/03/30 13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan’s suggestion on the last RA meeting was rather sensible… one week ‘setup’/announcements; two weeks campaigning; one week elections
[2008/03/30 13:41] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need to give that time? or no new factions this time?
[2008/03/30 13:42] You: so for example we could say: 30 March start nominating; 6 Apiril close nominations, start campaigning; 21 April voting opens?
[2008/03/30 13:42] Beathan Vale: yes — that works
[2008/03/30 13:42] You: (just an example, using Beathan’s one week)
[2008/03/30 13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees.
[2008/03/30 13:42] ThePrincess Parisi: so factions have to have already been declared?
[2008/03/30 13:42] You: is a week good for everyone?
[2008/03/30 13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh no, Princess — they could do until the day the campaigning start
[2008/03/30 13:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we had to declare prior to the election a few weeks last time in the election
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: well that is different than a regular election
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i am certain
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: why is this different
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: nuCARE had to be together well before the start of campaigning
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we had a deadline
[2008/03/30 13:43] Beathan Vale: let’s say three days for new factions; 7 days for candidates, 2 week campaign, 1 week vote
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: no we cant say
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: it is in the constitution
[2008/03/30 13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “No later than 15 days prior to the opening of the polls, faction members will report to the SC Dean their willingness or unwillingness to serve in the RA.”
[2008/03/30 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i know it is , cos we had to stick to that to get ourselves to the
[2008/03/30 13:43] You: faction get tested (for existence and eligibility) on the same day as nominations close and campaigning opens, I think
[2008/03/30 13:44] ThePrincess Parisi: but this is about making a faction
[2008/03/30 13:44] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2008/03/30 13:44] ThePrincess Parisi: we need to make sure
[2008/03/30 13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “If there are no declared candidates fifteen (15) days before and election, that faction will be considered a non-election faction and not be placed on the ballot for that term.”
[2008/03/30 13:44] ThePrincess Parisi: we had a timeline much prior to reporting that
[2008/03/30 13:44] You: I see Cindy, then I have a Q for Gwyneth
[2008/03/30 13:44] You: Cindy?
[2008/03/30 13:45] Cindy Ecksol: seems to me that from what Gwyn has quoted all a faction has to do to “declare” is tell the RA 15 days before elections. I suppose with the new rule about faction size, the SC will also have to certify any previously unknown factions, but that looks like the rule…
[2008/03/30 13:45] ThePrincess Parisi: well there might be more than what she has quoted cin
[2008/03/30 13:45] Patroklus Murakami: and the current factions cindy 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:45] Cindy Ecksol: any faction (new or old) that does not talk to the RA will not be certified.
[2008/03/30 13:46] ThePrincess Parisi: we had to declare to sudane with nuCARE
[2008/03/30 13:46] Cindy Ecksol: I’m sorry — to the SC, not the RA. Good point pat…
[2008/03/30 13:46] ThePrincess Parisi: way prior to the day of the campaign
[2008/03/30 13:46] Cindy Ecksol: 15 days
[2008/03/30 13:46] You: thanks
[2008/03/30 13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn will answer to Princess’ question once Jamie asks the question to me — so that we’re not getting hopelessly out of order here 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i think this needs to be clarified before this goes on
[2008/03/30 13:47] You: indeed, and thanks – and after Gwyn’s short answer I have a procedural issue. Gwyn?
[2008/03/30 13:47] ThePrincess Parisi: im sorry but im sure we just did this three months ago
[2008/03/30 13:47] ThePrincess Parisi: can i not talk? oops
[2008/03/30 13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:48] You: not just yet 🙂 Gwyn’s turn
[2008/03/30 13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn is confused about the order — Jamie, should I answer Princess first; answer your (unasked) question first; or shut up and wait for Princess to finish?
[2008/03/30 13:48] You: ha ha – answer the question previously asked please – or decline, of course
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… well,
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess has a point actually.
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the *regular* elections,
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: BEFORE all the process starts,
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we have the “census”.
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Estimating how many citizens there are in the CDS,
[2008/03/30 13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: because this will also define how many seats will be on the RA,
[2008/03/30 13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and… how many candidates each faction needs to present
[2008/03/30 13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… on the *regular* elections,
[2008/03/30 13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a bit before the campaigning starts,
[2008/03/30 13:50] You: so the census date is its own test, prior to faction nominations opening?
[2008/03/30 13:50] You: and who sets THAT date?
[2008/03/30 13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, exactly, Jamie
[2008/03/30 13:50] You: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, it’s fixed… mmmh
[2008/03/30 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂 i had a point.
[2008/03/30 13:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But in the case of the by-elections,
[2008/03/30 13:51] Moon Adamant: afk
[2008/03/30 13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re just filling in a fixed amount of seats
[2008/03/30 13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie.
[2008/03/30 13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you don’t need to define a “full list”
[2008/03/30 13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no new census is needed — the number of members of the RA *overall* will not grow or diminished
[2008/03/30 13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *diminsh
[2008/03/30 13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so as long as “any” faction which was valid at the beginning of term
[2008/03/30 13:52] Cindy Ecksol thinks “Wow! then anyone could declare themselves a new faction and hop into the pool if it’s a by election!”
[2008/03/30 13:52] MT Lundquist raises hand
[2008/03/30 13:52] You: OK, answered then, I think, and thank you …
[2008/03/30 13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: presents enough candidates….
[2008/03/30 13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no no Cindy
[2008/03/30 13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t read it that way 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: may i post something please
[2008/03/30 13:52] Cindy Ecksol: sorry, put that up before you finished….
[2008/03/30 13:52] Cindy Ecksol: I understand
[2008/03/30 13:52] You: Gwyn has floor – then rule issue- then Prin
[2008/03/30 13:52] You: done G?
[2008/03/30 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i have found the chat
[2008/03/30 13:53] ThePrincess Parisi: text i mean
[2008/03/30 13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was basically the explanation why for the regular elections there is a previous “validation” on the factions…
[2008/03/30 13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, yes, that’s all, Mr. LRA 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:53] You: Thanks – that’s helpful – and may well be what Prin was remembering as an “earlier deadline”. Running out of time on this item. Beathan’s new rules want me to explicitly immediately ask for an extension of time – or we quit this item, or vote immediately. .. This overrides the current debate as a procedural requirement under the rules you lot passed last meeting 🙂 … Could we have a motion to set the timelines I specified (30 March / 6 April / 21 April) — OR some other dates AS A MOTION — OR shall we let this item fail — OR shall we extend debate? RA members only on that first, please.
[2008/03/30 13:53] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2008/03/30 13:53] You: so
[2008/03/30 13:54] You: RA members – I have no motion – extend debate? or not?
[2008/03/30 13:54] ThePrincess Parisi: we have some info i need to give first so yes
[2008/03/30 13:54] You: any objections from other RAs?
[2008/03/30 13:54] MT Lundquist: no
[2008/03/30 13:54] You: Noting this will eat the rest of our time today?
[2008/03/30 13:54] ThePrincess Parisi: well we can start elections now i dont care
[2008/03/30 13:54] ThePrincess Parisi: is that it
[2008/03/30 13:54] ThePrincess Parisi: im confused
[2008/03/30 13:54] Jamie Palisades looks around …
[2008/03/30 13:54] ThePrincess Parisi: i am ok with voting on this now
[2008/03/30 13:55] You: 🙂 then listen to the nice chairman please
[2008/03/30 13:55] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2008/03/30 13:55] You: No vote ’cause no motion … time extended … Prin first then Cindy 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:55] ThePrincess Parisi: No later than 15 days prior to the opening of the polls, faction members will report to the SC Dean their willingness or unwillingness to serve in the RA. If there are no declared candidates fifteen (15) days before and election, that faction will be considered a non-election faction and not be placed on the ballot for that term. Based on the ranking form the general election, the faction members to be elected to the RA will selected based on the descending order of the number of points received based on the Borda-count of the rankings. The members will be selected until all available seats for the party are filled. If a member retires from the RA, a member with the next highest ranking in the same faction is takes a seat on the RA.
[2008/03/30 13:55] ThePrincess Parisi: thats all i had
[2008/03/30 13:55] ThePrincess Parisi: cindy
[2008/03/30 13:56] You: Yup. Cindy?
[2008/03/30 13:56] Cindy Ecksol: just wanted to clarify: gwyn, are you saying that for the by election only parties already certified for the main election are eligible? no new parties for the by election?
[2008/03/30 13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *theoretically*, Cindy, yes, that’s what it is
[2008/03/30 13:56] Cindy Ecksol: that makes TREMENDOUS sense…
[2008/03/30 13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: this is “a special election for X vacant seats”
[2008/03/30 13:57] ThePrincess Parisi: then lets vote
[2008/03/30 13:57] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you ladies
[2008/03/30 13:57] ThePrincess Parisi: you are so smart.. oh I’m out of order
[2008/03/30 13:57] Beathan Vale: so moved
[2008/03/30 13:58] You: OK we have NO timing motion for the election. I find that embarrassing. Will someone move some dates please. One set that has been suggested was solicit candidates from factions 30 March; close those and start campaigning 6 April; start balloting 21 April.
[2008/03/30 13:58] You: Move what, BV? 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we commence now
[2008/03/30 13:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i love a campaign
[2008/03/30 13:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:58] Beathan Vale: the last text you posted as clarified (theoretically) by Gwyn
[2008/03/30 13:58] Jamie Palisades refrains, carefully, from comment
[2008/03/30 13:58] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/03/30 13:59] You: got it. BV moves that calendar, and acknolwedging Gwyn’s comments about eligible factions.
[2008/03/30 13:59] You: Can I take Prin’s motion as a second?
[2008/03/30 13:59] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/03/30 13:59] You: Are you ready to vote?
[2008/03/30 13:59] Beathan Vale: rdy
[2008/03/30 14:00] You: Members please state your vote. I vote aye.
[2008/03/30 14:00] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/03/30 14:00] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/03/30 14:00] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/03/30 14:00] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/03/30 14:00] ThePrincess Parisi: yes indeedy
[2008/03/30 14:00] You: 🙂 done and I will notify the SC
[2008/03/30 14:00] You: somehow I feel they may know
[2008/03/30 14:01] You: …
[2008/03/30 14:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
====
[2008/03/30 14:01] You: Agenda. It is 2 pm SLT.
[2008/03/30 14:01] ThePrincess Parisi: where is my nuCARE hat
[2008/03/30 14:01] Beathan Vale: election committee meeting to follow
[2008/03/30 14:01] You: Who among the RA must leave?
[2008/03/30 14:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i never leave
[2008/03/30 14:01] You: do we quit RA for today?
[2008/03/30 14:01] Beathan Vale: it’s true — she is always on
[2008/03/30 14:01] ThePrincess Parisi: mt needs to go night night
[2008/03/30 14:01] Beathan Vale: I think she must take some wild stimulants
[2008/03/30 14:01] MT Lundquist: yes i need to sleep sorry
[2008/03/30 14:01] You: Yuo *must* stop throwing me those straight lines, Prin dear
[2008/03/30 14:02] Alexicon Kurka: I have to leave so I request that we have some minutes if there are any questions for me from the RA
[2008/03/30 14:02] ThePrincess Parisi: coffee with mayan chockolate
[2008/03/30 14:02] You: OK I will confer with members – on the Forum – about these agenda items we keep shorting – and offer our apologies to Alexicon for not getting to his report today
[2008/03/30 14:02] Beathan Vale: ahh — the euphemistic “Mayan Chocolate”
[2008/03/30 14:02] ThePrincess Parisi: like MINE
[2008/03/30 14:02] Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
[2008/03/30 14:02] You: Is someone moving to adjourn for the day?
[2008/03/30 14:02] ThePrincess Parisi: its a REAL bill jamie
[2008/03/30 14:03] MT Lundquist: i move
[2008/03/30 14:03] You: other wise on we go, smile
[2008/03/30 14:03] Beathan Vale: I want to have a brief public discussion
[2008/03/30 14:03] Alexicon Kurka: I am glad the RA recovered and functions optimal again.
[2008/03/30 14:03] ThePrincess Parisi: no i wanna go on can we with four
[2008/03/30 14:03] Beathan Vale: prior to adjournment
[2008/03/30 14:03] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you Alexicon
[2008/03/30 14:03] You: Prin, e can unil somene calls uorum, mile
[2008/03/30 14:03] Beathan Vale: just so that we don’t have a meeting without that chance
[2008/03/30 14:03] Beathan Vale: if no one wants to talk, so be it
[2008/03/30 14:03] You: MT have made a motion to adjounr
[2008/03/30 14:03] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/03/30 14:03] ThePrincess Parisi: he has to go
[2008/03/30 14:04] You: Immediate vote required then, I think –
[2008/03/30 14:04] Beathan Vale: no further business for vote — just discussion — let’s stay without MT for sy 10 min
[2008/03/30 14:04] Beathan Vale: nay
[2008/03/30 14:04] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/03/30 14:04] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/03/30 14:04] You: members please indicate your vote (whether to adjourn)
[2008/03/30 14:04] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 14:04] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/03/30 14:04] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 14:04] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/03/30 14:04] You: that’s three 🙂
[2008/03/30 14:04] Beathan Vale: OK
[2008/03/30 14:04] MT Lundquist: ok bye all
[2008/03/30 14:04] ThePrincess Parisi: night night
[2008/03/30 14:04] MT Lundquist: sorry i have to go
[2008/03/30 14:05] You: I abstain, and we are adjourned 3-1-1 – and those who wish shoudl stick around for Beathan’s chat about – um – elections
[2008/03/30 14:05] Beathan Vale: election committee to follow — and any citizens who want to harrass me as proxy for the RA can do so
[2008/03/30 14:05] You: NP, it;s late, thank you MT
[2008/03/30 14:05] ThePrincess Parisi: he gets up early
[2008/03/30 14:05] Alexicon Kurka: Bye everybody
[2008/03/30 14:05] You: we are adjoruned, thank you all
[2008/03/30 14:05] ThePrincess Parisi: can we have the sign in the CN form updated
[2008/03/30 14:06] You: and thanks Alexicon
RA Meeting: April 06, 2008
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes. (Confirm no need for Commission reports.)
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate? (None.)
3. Proposed Celebrating our Volunteers Bill (10 mins.: 12h30-12h40)
4. Proposed Greener Sims Bill (10 mins.: 12h40-12h50)
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1632
5a. Report from New Guild, reactions/questions to RA resolutions on sim plan, location (M Adamant)
5b. Guild expectations regarding fourth sim timing (M Adamant)
5c. RA expectations & any financial considerations regarding fourth sim timing
5d. Relationship (if any) between fourth sim and ‘private development’ proposal below
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1721
8a. Private Development/Sim contracting?
— reference: See above
8b. New Guild charter amendments?
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1736
8c. Parliamentarian/recorder?
8d. LRA selection?
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
8e. Conflict of Interest?
8f. Public Referenda?
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1715#p10506
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1667#p10507
8f. Other?
10. Open Discussion (10 mins. 13h45-14h00)
Adjournment: 14h00
Summary
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
===
[12:10] Called to order.
[12:11] 1b – Agenda reviewed and modified.
[12;19] 1c – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[12:21] 1d – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[12:22] 1e – Future RA meeting schedule.
— Decided on 09h00 SLT on Saturday, starting 12 April
[12:27] 1f – Consent agenda.
No items.
[12:28] 2 – Chancellor report.
Postponed until next meeting.
[12:28] 3 – Celebrating Our Volunteers Bill.
— Motion stated at [12:31]. (See notecard text, copied to end of transcript).
—- Amendment stated at [12:37]. Amendment re-stated at [12:38]. Accepted as friendly amendment without objection at [12:38].
— Motion (as amended) adopted 5-0-0 at [12:42]
[12:42] 4 – Greener Sims bill.
Discussion only. Consensus to hold this item until after by-elections.
[12:49] 5 – Fourth sim planning.
Delayed until later in meeting to permit Guild representative to attend.
[12:53] 6.25 – Commerce Commission.
MT Lundquist made report. Draft legislation expected by next RA meeting. (Notecard text with draft bill was read into the record at [12:56].)
[13:10] 5 – Fourth sim planning – resumed.
Dialogue and confirmation about RA parameters to Guild for new sim.
[13:35] 6.5 – Conflict of interest inquiry
[13:46] 7 – Private Development laws
(See URIs in agenda: )
— Motion stated at [13:47]. Motion declined 0-5-0 at [14:02].
[14:04] Announcements from PIO: Dreams Fair and SL5B
[14:05] Meeting extended.
[14:07] 8 – Proposed/expected future legislation noted:
— 8a Private Development [14:08]
— 8b Guild charter changes [14:08]
— 8c RA parliamentarian, recorder [14:12]
— 8d LRA succession [14:13]
— 8[x] Sustainability [14:029
— 8e Conflicts of Interest legislation [14:33]
— 8f Public referenda [14:35]
— 8g Tour vehicle remibursement [14:42]
[14:45] 10 – Open discussion
[14:55] Adjourned.
Transcript
Transcript of 6 April 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “===” inserted to separate agenda items
====
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Alpine+Meadow/182/208/54
[2008/04/06 12:05] ThePrincess Parisi: and its the govts right to take it way if they want commercial property
[2008/04/06 12:05] Justice Soothsayer: hi Jamie
[2008/04/06 12:05] MT Lundquist: hi jamie
[2008/04/06 12:05] You: ah thanks for the TP Beathan
[2008/04/06 12:05] You: and apologies for being – hm – 3 minutes late
[2008/04/06 12:06] You: please bear with me while we get arranged –
[2008/04/06 12:06] ThePrincess Parisi: i think the govt can take your land if you dont use it commericially
[2008/04/06 12:06] Danton Sideways: if you make that legislation, yes
[2008/04/06 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: its already in the legistaltion sorry
[2008/04/06 12:07] MT Lundquist gave you Commerce Commision Recommendations.
[2008/04/06 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: way before us
[2008/04/06 12:07] Danton Sideways: what if i use it commercially but fail to make any money?
[2008/04/06 12:07] You: MT, I just got your notecard, thanks
[2008/04/06 12:07] You: maybe post that to forums also?
[2008/04/06 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: then if you have traffic it might be ok
[2008/04/06 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: depends how commerical is defined
[2008/04/06 12:07] Danton Sideways: how about a storefront association, that should be in commercial zoning
[2008/04/06 12:07] You: and to all present, let me ping SOnja before we start – with only 5 members seated I like to try and get ecveryone if we can
[2008/04/06 12:08] Beathan Vale: I think policing profits would be a nightmare — we run on appearance
[2008/04/06 12:08] You: oo 🙂 events overtook me
[2008/04/06 12:08] ThePrincess Parisi: a storefront associaion what do you mean?
[2008/04/06 12:08] You: Hi Sonja, thx
[2008/04/06 12:08] Sonja Strom: hi everybody
[2008/04/06 12:08] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja is here
[2008/04/06 12:08] Beathan Vale: further, commercial use could be nonprofit, informational, etc.
[2008/04/06 12:08] Sonja Strom: I assent to being recorded 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:08] Danton Sideways: non-profit association with a storefront office
[2008/04/06 12:08] MT Lundquist: hi sonja
[2008/04/06 12:08] Beathan Vale: yep
[2008/04/06 12:08] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/04/06 12:08] You: Ladies and gentlemen: are we ready to begin? Can that chat wait, as all are present?
[2008/04/06 12:08] ThePrincess Parisi: it depends if it meetis the definition of commercial danton
[2008/04/06 12:08] ThePrincess Parisi: that might be ok
[2008/04/06 12:09] Danton Sideways: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:09] You: ??
[2008/04/06 12:09] You: not hearing any objection to starting the meeting …
[2008/04/06 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: go on
====
[2008/04/06 12:10] You: Thx, we’re in session, then. Our agenda as proposed is posted here
[2008/04/06 12:10] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1749
[2008/04/06 12:10] You: we will ask for changesi in a moment
[2008/04/06 12:10] You: 1a
[2008/04/06 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: ok but let me see it first
[2008/04/06 12:10] xThePrincess: ok but let me see it first
[2008/04/06 12:10] MT Lundquist: agree to being recorded
[2008/04/06 12:10] Beathan Vale: ditto
[2008/04/06 12:10] You: Would everyone present please assent in chat to the recording and re-posting of this session– or else just not speak 🙂 I assent
[2008/04/06 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: agree
[2008/04/06 12:10] xThePrincess: agree
[2008/04/06 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: aye
[2008/04/06 12:11] Justice Soothsayer: I assent
[2008/04/06 12:11] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/04/06 12:11] Danton Sideways: assent
[2008/04/06 12:11] ThePrincess Parisi: i do have something to add that is urgent though
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: i do ‘ave somethin’ t’ add that be urgent though
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: Beathan, if we missed anyone, would you check for me and get them on record as assenting please?
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: Understood prin – that’s up now
====
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: 1b
[2008/04/06 12:11] Beathan Vale: everyone assented
[2008/04/06 12:11] ThePrincess Parisi: see the ppl who are running the election are the same ppl who caused that
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: see th’ ppl who are runnin’ th’ election are th’ same ppl who caused that
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: Agenda changes 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:11] ThePrincess Parisi: and
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: ‘n
[2008/04/06 12:11] ThePrincess Parisi: i say its unconstitutional
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: Gangway! i say its unconstitutional
[2008/04/06 12:11] ThePrincess Parisi: and
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: ‘n
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: Prin. 🙂 is this a proposal for an agenda change?
[2008/04/06 12:11] ThePrincess Parisi: there is now no SC
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: (I suspect so)
[2008/04/06 12:11] xThePrincess: thar be now no SC
[2008/04/06 12:11] Beathan Vale: TP — you are echoing
[2008/04/06 12:11] You: hang on hang on
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: so we have to not bring ti to anyone
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: so we ‘ave t’ nah brin’ ti t’ anyone
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: im a pirate
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: Hoist the Jolly Roger! im a pirate
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: Yo ho ho an’ a bottle o’ rum! sorry
[2008/04/06 12:12] You: Prin your echo-er is speaking Pirate at us – amusing, but inconvenient. Please turn it off
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: oh right im doing this to make a point
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: oh right im doin’ this t’ make a point
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: that CDS is a mans toy game
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: that CDS be a mans toy game
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: not a community
[2008/04/06 12:12] MT Lundquist: i have the commerce commission recommendations
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: nah a community
[2008/04/06 12:12] ThePrincess Parisi: and the SC is a farce
[2008/04/06 12:12] xThePrincess: ‘n th’ SC be a farce
[2008/04/06 12:12] You: Heh. Prin do you have a suggetsion for an added agenda item? PLEASE say WHAT it is, how long, and anything else we need to add it to the agenda.
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: and what we need to do is rule the actions of the SC unconstitutional
[2008/04/06 12:13] xThePrincess: Land ho! ‘n wha’ we needs t’ do be rule th’ actions o’ th’ SC unconstitutional
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/06 12:13] xThePrincess: aye
[2008/04/06 12:13] Beathan Vale: I have confidence in the election officials and see no reason to disrupt the process
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: we have a emergency and its urgent
[2008/04/06 12:13] xThePrincess: Splice the mainbrace! we ‘ave a emergency ‘n its urgent
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: we do have an emergency
[2008/04/06 12:13] You: And I ask you to refrain from personal characterizations of another government branch. What need we do as the RA, Prin, if anything?
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: the election can not go on
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/06 12:13] You: THE ONLY THING now pertinent is changing the agenda. Will you have an agenda item on this?
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: well see gywn and justice cause the need for the election
[2008/04/06 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: and then they ruled on every matter
[2008/04/06 12:14] You: I note Justice is present. (Hi there, welcome)
[2008/04/06 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: and gwyen sat in on the meetings with CSDF and then SC
[2008/04/06 12:14] Beathan Vale: Cindy please assent to chat publication
[2008/04/06 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: and then it is now that they are running and we need to make sure that is knwon that it is unconstitutional.. but
[2008/04/06 12:14] Cindy Ecksol: I consent
[2008/04/06 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: we have no SC to take it to
[2008/04/06 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: cos now the SC is running for RA
[2008/04/06 12:14] You: Prin I will ask you to finish your agenda-related comments in 60 seconds, then I have a suggestion.
[2008/04/06 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we all need to stop ……..im done
[2008/04/06 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: agenda item
[2008/04/06 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: discuss SC and its issues
[2008/04/06 12:15] You: OK. Yes or no. Do you have amotion to pass legislaton or another RA act about that issue at this meeting?
[2008/04/06 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/06 12:15] You: I understand discussion – but I know of no bill or act, YET
[2008/04/06 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: a motion to discuss and it is URGENT
[2008/04/06 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: emergency
[2008/04/06 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: the election is unconstitutional
[2008/04/06 12:15] You: OK then it will have to go – per our own rules – AFTER preexisting items – so that’s after 6 and before 7
[2008/04/06 12:15] Cindy Ecksol needs a beer already and the meeting hasn’t even started….
[2008/04/06 12:16] You: I don’t see Alexi here so maybe we save time today due to no Chancellor report
[2008/04/06 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: then it wont happen
[2008/04/06 12:16] You: yes, Cindy, it has 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: well he wont be there
[2008/04/06 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: hes sending arria or some crap
[2008/04/06 12:16] You: OK then Prin, hush a sec. Does anyone object to a new agenda item 6-point-5 about Prin’s concern for 10 minutes?
[2008/04/06 12:16] Beathan Vale: no — add it
[2008/04/06 12:16] You: Prin that’s out of order. Cease all personal comments please.
[2008/04/06 12:16] You: no objections?
[2008/04/06 12:16] MT Lundquist: no objection
[2008/04/06 12:17] ThePrincess Parisi: in guild they said that arria was coming in place of alexicon sorry
[2008/04/06 12:17] You: OK we have a 6-and-one-half. Can we also add Beathan’s plan to report out the Commierce Commission results?
[2008/04/06 12:17] MT Lundquist: MTs
[2008/04/06 12:17] You: Rats sorry
[2008/04/06 12:17] You: to both of you
[2008/04/06 12:17] MT Lundquist: np
[2008/04/06 12:17] Beathan Vale: ? I have no plan related to the Commerce Commission
[2008/04/06 12:17] ThePrincess Parisi: MT does
[2008/04/06 12:18] You: OK to add, say, what, 10 minutes before Prin’s issue? I think THIS one is less likely to be fractious (maybe) 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:18] Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i told you he had recs from the commerce commission over a weekago
[2008/04/06 12:18] You: So item 6-point-two-five for 10 mins, hmm? any objections?
[2008/04/06 12:18] You: .me smiles and waits to hear objections
[2008/04/06 12:18] Beathan Vale: no obj
[2008/04/06 12:18] You: kk
[2008/04/06 12:19] Jack Daniels Whiskey whispers: watch that third sip
[2008/04/06 12:19] You: we have an agenda – with the 2 changes noted – and we’ll handle it on the fly if Arria or Alexi show up
[2008/04/06 12:19] You: and someone pass me that whisky 🙂
====
[2008/04/06 12:19] You: next item
[2008/04/06 12:19] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/06 12:19] You: 1c
[2008/04/06 12:19] Cindy Ecksol: me passes the bottle of Jack Daniels to Jamie
[2008/04/06 12:19] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan is next
[2008/04/06 12:19] You: does any non RA memebr wish to speak on items today? You get get to the heda of the line under our rules by saying so now 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:20] ThePrincess Parisi: i am sure i will
[2008/04/06 12:20] Justice Soothsayer: If you ever get to TP
[2008/04/06 12:20] Jamie Palisades looks around for type-y gestures?
[2008/04/06 12:20] Justice Soothsayer: I would like to address her comments about the election
[2008/04/06 12:20] You: RA need not so indicate 🙂 the rules assume we talk a lot already (wry smile)
[2008/04/06 12:20] You: Got it – Justice on item – hm – 6-1/2
[2008/04/06 12:20] Beathan Vale: thanks for the hooch TP
[2008/04/06 12:20] You: any others?
[2008/04/06 12:20] Cindy Ecksol: I too would like to talk about that (after Justice) if we get to it
[2008/04/06 12:20] ThePrincess Parisi: yw
[2008/04/06 12:21] ThePrincess Parisi: we need it
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: hearing none
====
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: next item
[2008/04/06 12:21] *Drinks* Elite Rum & Coke whispers: Courtesy of Club Elite
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: 1d
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: Routine notice – please check my posted transcripts 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: please note
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: if you have changes, comment them in 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: also note I am putting a summary of action items in separately
[2008/04/06 12:21] ThePrincess Parisi: ok we will when we get time
[2008/04/06 12:21] You: unofficial, but maybe handy for those who aren’t into deep textual analysis
[2008/04/06 12:22] You: and finally 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:22] You: I do not have posting rights to the LRA-only board, so have ‘moved’ a bunch of stuff there — if a post from me says “(Archival)’ oin the subject you can safely ignore it
[2008/04/06 12:22] You: 🙂
====
[2008/04/06 12:22] You: next item
[2008/04/06 12:22] You: 1e
[2008/04/06 12:23] You: I was late today, sorry – SL, but also, just getting home from church
[2008/04/06 12:23] Sonja Strom: np Jamie 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:23] ThePrincess Parisi: we should change the time of RA so you can go to churge
[2008/04/06 12:23] You: any chance of actio on our inforaml chats about moving this mtg either to Saturday, or an hour later on Sunday, until the new RA membes are seated?
[2008/04/06 12:23] ThePrincess Parisi: chuch
[2008/04/06 12:23] MT Lundquist: my problem is sleep
[2008/04/06 12:23] Sonja Strom: we could talk about that, sure.
[2008/04/06 12:23] MT Lundquist: i should be sleeping now
[2008/04/06 12:23] You: (i have been told other Western North America attendees have a issue too)
[2008/04/06 12:23] You: indeed
[2008/04/06 12:23] MT Lundquist: later makes it worse
[2008/04/06 12:23] MT Lundquist: sorry
[2008/04/06 12:23] You: what about Sat?
[2008/04/06 12:24] MT Lundquist: sats ok
[2008/04/06 12:24] Sonja Strom: Saturday is fine for me.
[2008/04/06 12:24] ThePrincess Parisi: saturday is ok with me
[2008/04/06 12:24] ThePrincess Parisi: then guild can and will go on all day sunday
[2008/04/06 12:24] Beathan Vale: I have a County convention to attend on the 19th
[2008/04/06 12:24] Jamie Palisades checks hi iPhone workd clock, sees 20h43 UK time
[2008/04/06 12:24] Sonja Strom: Maybe we could move to Saturdays after the 19th?
[2008/04/06 12:24] Beathan Vale: and at other times of year do volunteet work on Sats — but that is over until next fall
[2008/04/06 12:24] Sonja Strom: oh
[2008/04/06 12:24] You: hm – 19th is sat?
[2008/04/06 12:25] Beathan Vale: and, if I am a state delegate, I will have at least one other Sat commitment
[2008/04/06 12:25] ThePrincess Parisi: toga
[2008/04/06 12:25] ThePrincess Parisi: wow beathan thats awesome
[2008/04/06 12:25] Beathan Vale: but — Sats are probably generally ok
[2008/04/06 12:25] Danton Sideways: Sat SL noon in France is 9 pm – hard if you have a RL
[2008/04/06 12:25] You: hmm what about considerably earlier on sat or sun?
[2008/04/06 12:25] You: oui Danton
[2008/04/06 12:25] You: what about 3 or 4 hours earlier on sat or sun?
[2008/04/06 12:25] You: RA emmebrs?
[2008/04/06 12:25] Beathan Vale: Hi BJ — please consent to chat publication
[2008/04/06 12:25] ThePrincess Parisi: aok
[2008/04/06 12:26] Sonja Strom: fine with me 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:26] MT Lundquist: 3 or 4 earlier is ok with me
[2008/04/06 12:26] Beathan Vale: should be OK
[2008/04/06 12:26] You: I’d like to propose 9 am SLT Saturday
[2008/04/06 12:26] You: see what that trial balloon gets
[2008/04/06 12:26] Beathan Vale: second
[2008/04/06 12:26] ThePrincess Parisi: third
[2008/04/06 12:26] Jamie Palisades looks around quizzically, sees no fierce obj
[2008/04/06 12:26] MT Lundquist: fine with me
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: OK then – let’s use it next week, see how it works, and thanks
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: item over
====
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: next
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: 1f
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: consent calendar
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: I got nothing – anyone?
[2008/04/06 12:27] ThePrincess Parisi: what is it
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: completely noncontroversial stuff we can just pass without debate
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: did that for Alexi’s CN hub issue last week
[2008/04/06 12:27] You: it’s a nice device from Beathan’s rule changes
[2008/04/06 12:28] ThePrincess Parisi: that the elections are a farce and political griefing?
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: but I see nothing like that this week .. so …
[2008/04/06 12:28] ThePrincess Parisi: can we do that one
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: as a consent item ? heh – no
[2008/04/06 12:28] Beathan Vale: not bloody likely
====
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: next item
[2008/04/06 12:28] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: 🙂 hush all
[2008/04/06 12:28] ThePrincess Parisi: ahoy then
[2008/04/06 12:28] Cindy Ecksol laughs hysterically
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: we are on item 2
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: but got no Chancellor
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: so I will ask him to come next week, hm?
====
[2008/04/06 12:28] You: item 3
[2008/04/06 12:28] ThePrincess Parisi: i cussed him out ? :((
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: Celeb Our Volunteers – please note –
[2008/04/06 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: oh wow
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: one of the things about beathan’s agenda rule changes, which we adopted –
[2008/04/06 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: finally
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: is that we should not let agenda items age like fine wine 🙂 so –
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: oldest stuff gets handled first
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you ……………….
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: Prin? Can you direct us to the post with the proposed bill?
[2008/04/06 12:29] Sonja Strom: Welcome Bjerkel and Pip, please assent to being recorded if you would.
[2008/04/06 12:29] ThePrincess Parisi: well i wrote it so long ago i dont know what it was
[2008/04/06 12:29] You: want to do it this week or next then?
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: i think that it was something mizou wanted when she was workign on the guided tour with me
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: this week
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: im typing
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: but see
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: alexicon has been asked several times for the money for the tour by me
[2008/04/06 12:30] You: OK 🙂 10 mins on agenda for it, I’m a happy presiding officer uuntil 12h40 SLT
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: and i don t get the money so i dont know what to do.. but the bill…………………………….
[2008/04/06 12:30] You: ahem
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: for the volunteers
[2008/04/06 12:30] You: volunteers = in order. Tour, or personal remarks = not
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: is as writen
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: what ? do you have any questions
[2008/04/06 12:30] You: yes
[2008/04/06 12:30] ThePrincess Parisi: its pretty clear i think
[2008/04/06 12:31] ThePrincess Parisi: ok jamie shoot
[2008/04/06 12:31] You: I can;t vote for it if I can;t find it 🙂 I have this thing about knowing the bills – where’s the text?
[2008/04/06 12:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i have notecards
[2008/04/06 12:31] You: cool -please bomb away?
[2008/04/06 12:31] ThePrincess Parisi gave you Celebrating our volunteers Bill.
[2008/04/06 12:31] ThePrincess Parisi: passing them out
[2008/04/06 12:31] ThePrincess Parisi: before i pass out
[2008/04/06 12:32] ThePrincess Parisi: did everyone get one
[2008/04/06 12:32] Sonja Strom: yes
[2008/04/06 12:32] Justice Soothsayer: yes, thanks
[2008/04/06 12:32] ThePrincess Parisi: yw
[2008/04/06 12:32] You: I have a notecard with five items, essentially it would designate some coommunity real estate, create an event, and put a duty on the chancellor
[2008/04/06 12:32] ThePrincess Parisi: this was submitted motns ago
[2008/04/06 12:32] ThePrincess Parisi: months
[2008/04/06 12:32] You: I see little that’s controversial – is there discussion?
[2008/04/06 12:32] ThePrincess Parisi: what is controversial
[2008/04/06 12:32] Cindy Ecksol thinks “Actually a little more than one month….”
[2008/04/06 12:32] ThePrincess Parisi: i like it i wrote than it
[2008/04/06 12:32] You: nuthin’ 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:33] ThePrincess Parisi: no it was months ago cindy
[2008/04/06 12:33] Jamie Palisades is hearing no arguments 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:33] You: ready for a vote? OK, Members please state your vote. I vote aye
[2008/04/06 12:33] MT Lundquist: I’m happy with the concept
[2008/04/06 12:33] Sonja Strom: I still think we should name roads and streets after people who have contributed a lot to the CDS, but that does not have to be included in this bill.
[2008/04/06 12:33] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/04/06 12:33] ThePrincess Parisi: oh true! we should sonja
[2008/04/06 12:33] ThePrincess Parisi: lets add that
[2008/04/06 12:33] Sonja Strom: For some reason my feeling that way is controversial :-\
[2008/04/06 12:34] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[2008/04/06 12:34] You: Sonja – can we do that as another agenda item? Wwe’re in middle of a vote — I think
[2008/04/06 12:34] ThePrincess Parisi: weeks ago i mean .. not months
[2008/04/06 12:34] Sonja Strom: Hi Arria, welcome. Please assent to being recorded.
[2008/04/06 12:34] Arria Perreault: I agree
[2008/04/06 12:34] Sonja Strom: Oh, we are voting? Sorry, I did not see that…
[2008/04/06 12:34] Danton Sideways: Can I comment?
[2008/04/06 12:34] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/06 12:35] You: sigh – to be clear, I have called for a vote on Prin’s notecard, the Celeb our Volunteers bill. I have 2 votes in favor and 3 who have not voted
[2008/04/06 12:35] Beathan Vale: I need to coment too
[2008/04/06 12:35] Beathan Vale: crashed
[2008/04/06 12:35] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/04/06 12:35] You: I suggest that I stop and cancel the vote
[2008/04/06 12:35] ThePrincess Parisi: why?
[2008/04/06 12:35] You: as the other two RA members who have not voted, plus one citizen, wish to speak. OK?
[2008/04/06 12:35] You: for which we have 5 minutes left 🙂 so: Sonja, then Beathan, then Danton, please? One minute each?
[2008/04/06 12:36] You: anything Sonja?
[2008/04/06 12:36] Sonja Strom: I am ready to vote – I just wanted to say the one thing that I did already. I would, however, like to hear what Danton wants to say.
[2008/04/06 12:36] You: OK. Beathan?
[2008/04/06 12:36] ThePrincess Parisi: im fur it
[2008/04/06 12:36] Beathan Vale: Sudane — and some other volunteers — mostly declined recognition, but this proposal does not seem to givem them a right to opt out — we should not pass a measure that recognizes people who do not seek or want such recognition — however, with an opt out it could be OK
[2008/04/06 12:37] ThePrincess Parisi: of course they can
[2008/04/06 12:37] You: Is that a proposed amendment to specify that designate honorees can opt out? 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:37] Beathan Vale: Also — the measure does not specify how we should recognize our volunteers — I’m not sure what it does without that process detail
[2008/04/06 12:37] ThePrincess Parisi points at beathan: lawyer
[2008/04/06 12:37] You: well BV i’d say it leaves that to the Chancellor 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:37] You: yes or no on wanting an amendment, please?
[2008/04/06 12:37] ThePrincess Parisi: it says they go in the museum…….
[2008/04/06 12:37] Beathan Vale: OK
[2008/04/06 12:37] Jamie Palisades makes a friendly shush sound
[2008/04/06 12:38] Sonja Strom: Beathan, do you have an amendment to propose?
[2008/04/06 12:38] Beathan Vale: we put our volunteers in the museum? hmmm
[2008/04/06 12:38] ThePrincess Parisi: it was mizou’s idea
[2008/04/06 12:38] You: OK any OBJECTIONS to the FRIENDLY Beathan amendment about opting-out?
[2008/04/06 12:38] ThePrincess Parisi: it goes with the tour
[2008/04/06 12:38] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/04/06 12:38] MT Lundquist: no
[2008/04/06 12:38] ThePrincess Parisi: i talked to you about it at the time .. long ago beathan
[2008/04/06 12:38] Beathan Vale: yes, please add an “opt out” — “any volunteer proposed to be honored shall be contacted and may decline the honor”
[2008/04/06 12:38] Sonja Strom: I am in favor of such an amendment.
[2008/04/06 12:38] You: 🙂 got it
[2008/04/06 12:38] MT Lundquist: me to
[2008/04/06 12:38] Beathan Vale: TP — yes, but not in the text
[2008/04/06 12:38] You: if I hear no objections, it’s so amended by acclaimation
[2008/04/06 12:38] You: OK then 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:39] You: We are on the motion as amended – and it’s Danton’ turn – and we will be out of time shortly after that
[2008/04/06 12:39] You: Danton?
[2008/04/06 12:39] Danton Sideways: On the surface it seems like a fine idea to recognize contributors
[2008/04/06 12:39] Danton Sideways: But this motion disturbs coming from who it does at the present time
[2008/04/06 12:40] Danton Sideways: It is as if one party has assassinated another and then wants to enshrine them
[2008/04/06 12:40] ThePrincess Parisi: lol………..it was submitted ages ago danton.. and thank you for your comment
[2008/04/06 12:40] Jamie Palisades gives Danton that no-personalities look
[2008/04/06 12:40] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/06 12:40] You: we done?
[2008/04/06 12:40] ThePrincess Parisi: may i speak
[2008/04/06 12:40] You: we ready to vote? If it’s NEW and pertinent, sure Prin
[2008/04/06 12:40] ThePrincess Parisi: the week after i proposed it your party proposed a simiar thing.. don tworry hun
[2008/04/06 12:40] ThePrincess Parisi: its not a evil plot
[2008/04/06 12:41] Beathan Vale: I accept Danton’s amendment that we add a term “the first act of recognition is the cast all CSDF members in bronze and store them in the museum basement” — 😉
[2008/04/06 12:41] Beathan Vale: lol
[2008/04/06 12:41] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/06 12:41] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/04/06 12:41] Danton Sideways: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:41] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/04/06 12:41] ThePrincess Parisi: MOOONNNNN!!
[2008/04/06 12:41] You: knock it off y’all
[2008/04/06 12:41] ThePrincess Parisi: a statute of MOON
[2008/04/06 12:41] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/04/06 12:41] You: just stop
[2008/04/06 12:41] Beathan Vale: kk
[2008/04/06 12:41] You: Members please state your vote – on notecard motion as amended by Beathan’s friendly amendment. I vote aye
[2008/04/06 12:41] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/04/06 12:41] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/04/06 12:41] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/04/06 12:41] ThePrincess Parisi: put moon in as the frist inducteee ok .. aye im serious
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: ok unanimous
[2008/04/06 12:42] ThePrincess Parisi: i did this with jon danton
[2008/04/06 12:42] MT Lundquist: and i second if thats needed
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:42] ThePrincess Parisi: sheesh
====
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: next item
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: 4
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: Greener SIms – please note:
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: the bill’s in the forum posts, at the URI I put in today’s agenda
[2008/04/06 12:42] You: is anyone carryign the ball on this?
[2008/04/06 12:42] Beathan Vale: It was Pat’s
[2008/04/06 12:42] Sonja Strom: It was a CSDF proposal.
[2008/04/06 12:43] Sonja Strom: I would like to make a statement about it.
[2008/04/06 12:43] You: That does not relieve us of our duty to address open agenda items 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:43] Beathan Vale: But it is on the CSDF platform — and I have indicated that I will champion their platform in their absence
[2008/04/06 12:43] You: OK, SOnja, then BV please
[2008/04/06 12:43] Sonja Strom: I have talked with many people about this bill, including in the DPU (naturally), in the CDSF, and elsewhere.
[2008/04/06 12:44] Sonja Strom: One of those people is an expert in this area in RL – and was completely opposed to this bill.
[2008/04/06 12:44] Sonja Strom: My conclusion is to be against it.
[2008/04/06 12:44] Sonja Strom: done —
[2008/04/06 12:45] ThePrincess Parisi: ok thanks ss
[2008/04/06 12:45] You: OK
[2008/04/06 12:45] You: BV?
[2008/04/06 12:45] Beathan Vale: The purpose of this bill is to have the CDS take a lead in a RL political issue — carbon banking and global warming
[2008/04/06 12:45] Beathan Vale: I have confirmed that such carbon credits are available, but not commonly used yet in the US, as we are not a signatory to Kyoto
[2008/04/06 12:46] Sonja Strom: Welcome Gwyneth.
[2008/04/06 12:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn tries not to interrupt the sesion
[2008/04/06 12:46] Beathan Vale: However, carbon banking is one of Obama’s central environmental proposals — and McCain is not against it
[2008/04/06 12:46] Beathan Vale: so — I think it is coming.
[2008/04/06 12:46] Beathan Vale: That is my spiel in favor
[2008/04/06 12:46] Beathan Vale: putting on my own hat — I think that this proposal in its current form in premature
[2008/04/06 12:47] Beathan Vale: I would like to amend it to add “the chancellor shall investigate the possiblity and feasibility of the following proposal –”
[2008/04/06 12:47] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/06 12:47] Beathan Vale: I think we want to do this — but it will be hard to do at the moment
[2008/04/06 12:47] MT Lundquist: i would be happy with that amendment
[2008/04/06 12:47] ThePrincess Parisi: well i think we should wait
[2008/04/06 12:47] You: hm
[2008/04/06 12:47] ThePrincess Parisi: and let it be rewrited and researched
[2008/04/06 12:47] Beathan Vale: I think this will and should happen — but not until we know that the RL infrastructure exists in a way that we can access
[2008/04/06 12:47] You: I have a comment and a suggestion. My personal comment is that, while I think we want to keep this item for work, I think it would be best done with stakeholders present- AND there’s no timing issue for adoption so far as I know – so I’d be inclined to hold it over until after the new 2 RA members are seated. Reactions?
[2008/04/06 12:48] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/04/06 12:48] Sonja Strom: Beathan, that sounds like a good idea, but I don’t think we should add that to the Chancellor’s job… Unless, of course, he is interested in it himself.
[2008/04/06 12:48] ThePrincess Parisi: ok with me jamie
[2008/04/06 12:48] Beathan Vale: second JP’s procedural proposal
[2008/04/06 12:48] You: ac now, or in a month?
[2008/04/06 12:48] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think the chancellor is the place
[2008/04/06 12:48] You: anyone want to forge ahead now?
[2008/04/06 12:48] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i agree jamie
[2008/04/06 12:48] Sonja Strom: Jamie, I agree.
[2008/04/06 12:48] You: .. not hearing objections
[2008/04/06 12:48] MT Lundquist: happy to wait
[2008/04/06 12:48] You: OK then thanks
[2008/04/06 12:48] ThePrincess Parisi: stop til the new RA .. or old ra are back
[2008/04/06 12:48] Beathan Vale: Sonja — he’s not here to defend himself — that’s how we assign committee chair IRL
[2008/04/06 12:48] You: I love the issue – just think we need some more people in place for it
[2008/04/06 12:48] Beathan Vale: whoever misses the meeting has to chair
[2008/04/06 12:48] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:49] You: next item
====
[2008/04/06 12:49] Sonja Strom: heehee Beathan, that will teach him not to be here 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:49] You: and hm – did we get the last few attendees to consent to being recorded?
[2008/04/06 12:49] You: next item is 5
[2008/04/06 12:49] Sonja Strom: not yet
[2008/04/06 12:49] Beathan Vale: didn’t see Gwyn
[2008/04/06 12:49] Sonja Strom: Pip, Gwyn, Arria, Bjerkel?
[2008/04/06 12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh… sure, record everything lol
[2008/04/06 12:49] You: We offered to have the Guild back to report on their progress on fourth sim planning – PLEASE note –
[2008/04/06 12:49] Beathan Vale: now everyone has
[2008/04/06 12:50] Bjerkel Eerie: sure
[2008/04/06 12:50] You: this is NOT the same thing as the new legislation issues
[2008/04/06 12:50] You: thans BV – OK – on item 5 – do we have any guild folks here to rpoert?
[2008/04/06 12:50] ThePrincess Parisi: cindy is here
[2008/04/06 12:50] Cindy Ecksol does not speak for the guild
[2008/04/06 12:50] You: I wasn’t at Guild – anything formally or informally that we should know about plans and timing, Cindy, that you can say, OTHER than the various ideas about new legislation?
[2008/04/06 12:50] ThePrincess Parisi: no guild
[2008/04/06 12:51] You: OK then
[2008/04/06 12:51] Cindy Ecksol: arria is here….
[2008/04/06 12:51] ThePrincess Parisi: they made a committee this week
[2008/04/06 12:51] ThePrincess Parisi: last week they took two hours to vote on a logo
[2008/04/06 12:51] ThePrincess Parisi: thats what i surmized
[2008/04/06 12:51] Sonja Strom: sounds like us…
[2008/04/06 12:51] Arria Perreault: We have created a wg to work on masterplan
[2008/04/06 12:51] Jamie Palisades is waiting to hear from Arria if she wishes before proceeding
[2008/04/06 12:51] Beathan Vale: Moon on way — just give her a minute
[2008/04/06 12:51] Arria Perreault: ok I prefer
[2008/04/06 12:51] Sonja Strom: wg = work group?
[2008/04/06 12:52] Arria Perreault: yes
[2008/04/06 12:52] Beathan Vale: she is dealing with a RL kitchen flood apparently
[2008/04/06 12:52] Sonja Strom: uh oh
[2008/04/06 12:52] You: yikes
[2008/04/06 12:52] Beathan Vale: good practice for making dry land rise from the waters
[2008/04/06 12:52] You: well we can movg thigns around – everyuone OK if we go to next item, and come back to this?
[2008/04/06 12:52] Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, to clarify prin’s semantically loaded rhetoric….
[2008/04/06 12:52] MT Lundquist: fine
[2008/04/06 12:52] ThePrincess Parisi: agree
[2008/04/06 12:52] Sonja Strom: agree
[2008/04/06 12:52] You: Cindy, hold for now please?
[2008/04/06 12:52] Cindy Ecksol: ok….
[2008/04/06 12:52] ThePrincess Parisi: she needs to translate for me
====
[2008/04/06 12:53] You: next item was our added “six and a quarter: “)
[2008/04/06 12:53] ThePrincess Parisi: its a cultural isse jamie
[2008/04/06 12:53] You: 6.25 =
[2008/04/06 12:53] Beathan Vale: Moon on way
[2008/04/06 12:53] Beathan Vale: Moon here
[2008/04/06 12:53] You: commerce commission
[2008/04/06 12:53] Moon Adamant: hello everyone
[2008/04/06 12:53] ThePrincess Parisi: mt has notecoards
[2008/04/06 12:53] Sonja Strom: Welcome Moon
[2008/04/06 12:53] You: Oopsie 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Moon 😀
[2008/04/06 12:53] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/04/06 12:53] Moon Adamant: can i ask to be excused for a minute only?
[2008/04/06 12:53] Sonja Strom: sure
[2008/04/06 12:53] You: Ofcourse
[2008/04/06 12:53] ThePrincess Parisi: yes you were late we went on moon
[2008/04/06 12:53] MT Lundquist: i have concluded the commerce commission
[2008/04/06 12:53] Beathan Vale: yes — we will move onto next item and come back
[2008/04/06 12:53] You: let me know when you;re sorted out OK Moon
[2008/04/06 12:54] You: item 6.25 is
[2008/04/06 12:54] You: commerce comimssion
[2008/04/06 12:54] You: MT?
[2008/04/06 12:54] MT Lundquist: i have a notecard that sets out the bill objectives and the commissions response and recommendations
[2008/04/06 12:54] MT Lundquist: i will pass it round now post on the forum after the meeting
[2008/04/06 12:55] MT Lundquist: and i propose we add it to next weeks agenda for people to get a reasonable time to read it
[2008/04/06 12:55] ThePrincess Parisi: comments now?
[2008/04/06 12:55] You: can you give us a summary?
[2008/04/06 12:55] MT Lundquist gave you Commerce Commision Recommendations.
[2008/04/06 12:55] Sonja Strom: Thanks for the notecard MT.
[2008/04/06 12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you MT!
[2008/04/06 12:56] MT Lundquist: Recommendation Propose that the RA form a Chamber of Commerce for CDS. That this Chamber be made up of volunteer members from those holding and using for commercial purposes commercial land in CDS. That the leader of the Chamber of Commerce be elected by the members of the Chamber of Commerce every six months. That the Chamber of Commerce:
[2008/04/06 12:56] MT Lundquist: 1) supports the business community and advocates for its members by creating a strong local economy. Supporting the existing shop owners (by having the CDS launch promotional events and do some advertising; 2) promotes the community. Attracting new content creators willing to open a shop in the CDS; sponsoring events to attract customers; weekly social event shop promotion/events 3) provides networking opportunities. Financing a promotional campaign grid-wide to let the SL residents know that the CDS is a shopping destination for high quality products (and services). 4) represents the interests of business with government; 5) supports business-friendly ballot measures and evaluates candidates for public office.
[2008/04/06 12:56] MT Lundquist: It was noted that as at 23rd February 2008: in NFS there are 13 commercial lots with 2 not used and 1 provided for all citizens in CN there are 24 commercial lots with 3 empty, 1 museum, 1 info centre, 1 embassy
[2008/04/06 12:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i commend MT on handleing the commission so well
[2008/04/06 12:57] MT Lundquist: It was noted that as at 23rd February 2008: in NFS there are 13 commercial lots with 2 not used and 1 provided for all citizens in CN there are 24 commercial lots with 3 empty, 1 museum, 1 info centre, 1 embassy
[2008/04/06 12:57] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear
[2008/04/06 12:57] You: (Ooookay – Moon and I are illustrating why we need a conflict of interest bill — who wants to tell her? Hell I did not every know these chairs LET two people sit down …)
[2008/04/06 12:57] MT Lundquist: That the commercial lot owner is to raise the traffic to the required level within a three week period; If the commercial criteria are not satisfied within the three week period the Chamber of Commerce can require the commercial lot owner to sell back the lot to the CDS government for market rate; The Chamber of Commerce is then required to sell the commercial lot to another commercial trader.
[2008/04/06 12:57] ThePrincess Parisi: what?
[2008/04/06 12:57] MT Lundquist: misc recommendations That renting commercial lots to another for subsequent trade be considered trade so long as the tenant satisfies the commercial use rules. For avoidance of doubt the tenant is not made a citizen of CDS merely as a result of being a tenant. That the Chamber of Commerce be allowed to rule on the appropriateness of trade i.e. if they receive complaints about the type of commercial activity. For instance it might be considered inappropriate for full nudity skin shops to operate in CDS. That logos for CDS commerce be developed. Direct tp to assist trade (recognised this now exists in CN but not yet in NFS) More actively recruit more offerings from local creators Add a set of LMs or product sample pictures and perhaps a MAP of all known CDS shops. Take that same shopping-in-CDS content and put it on a CDS wbe site page.
[2008/04/06 12:57] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie you are interrupting
[2008/04/06 12:57] Jamie Palisades smiles weakly – proceed please
[2008/04/06 12:57] Beathan Vale: Yikes — unfunded and unsupported mandate alert
[2008/04/06 12:57] Sonja Strom: Moon is sitting in his lap 😉
[2008/04/06 12:58] ThePrincess Parisi: oh my
[2008/04/06 12:58] Justice Soothsayer: those wings have gotta hurt
[2008/04/06 12:58] ThePrincess Parisi: oh oh
[2008/04/06 12:58] Jamie Palisades thinks about going there and veers off mentally
[2008/04/06 12:58] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyn has a sword jamie
[2008/04/06 12:58] Danton Sideways: wants to comment
[2008/04/06 12:58] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:58] You: MT, done?
[2008/04/06 12:58] Cindy Ecksol: aw, it’s so cute!
[2008/04/06 12:58] You: we are not going to act today – but Danton?
[2008/04/06 12:58] ThePrincess Parisi: well done MT, yes, he’s done
[2008/04/06 12:59] Moon Adamant: back
[2008/04/06 12:59] Danton Sideways: Can I comment?
[2008/04/06 12:59] MT Lundquist: yes ty
[2008/04/06 12:59] MT Lundquist: just passing the notecards out
[2008/04/06 12:59] MT Lundquist: but done
[2008/04/06 12:59] Cindy Ecksol waves at moon
[2008/04/06 12:59] Cindy Ecksol: Over here!
[2008/04/06 12:59] Sonja Strom: Thank you very much for all of the work you have done on this, MT.
[2008/04/06 12:59] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/04/06 12:59] You: 🙂 Danton, please – then let’s move on
[2008/04/06 13:00] Danton Sideways: I quote: That the commercial lot owner is to raise the traffic to the required level within a three week period
[2008/04/06 13:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ROFL and apologises
[2008/04/06 13:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn was looking at Moon’s sitting on top of the LRA
[2008/04/06 13:00] ThePrincess Parisi: probs at home gwynnie
[2008/04/06 13:00] Danton Sideways: This type of totalitarian control over my commercial activities reveals the true nature of the current government
[2008/04/06 13:00] Jamie Palisades whispers hush kids
[2008/04/06 13:00] Arria Perreault: May I have the word?
[2008/04/06 13:01] You: I have a request of Danton. I;m worried about confiscatory acts too. COUld you please post yoru take on this at the Forums as a comment to theMT post?
[2008/04/06 13:01] Danton Sideways: Will do
[2008/04/06 13:01] You: And yes, if Danton is done, it;s Arris’a turn
[2008/04/06 13:01] Sonja Strom: Welcome Rain.
[2008/04/06 13:01] You: Arria?
[2008/04/06 13:01] ThePrincess Parisi: hi raine
[2008/04/06 13:01] MT Lundquist: yes that would help its a summary of the recommendations discussed by citizens who attended
[2008/04/06 13:01] Rain Ninetails: 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:02] Beathan Vale: agree — I want to see commercial uses supported, rather than lots forfeited — we want to encourage and subsidize commerce, but not penalize alternative uses this severely
[2008/04/06 13:02] Arria Perreault: I think that the traffic is not the only indicator for a good commercial activity
[2008/04/06 13:02] Beathan Vale: ::nod::
[2008/04/06 13:02] Sonja Strom agrees.
[2008/04/06 13:02] ThePrincess Parisi: well the committee decided that as i recall
[2008/04/06 13:02] You: ??
[2008/04/06 13:02] ThePrincess Parisi: it is the only measurable item
[2008/04/06 13:02] Beathan Vale: also true
[2008/04/06 13:02] MT Lundquist: the citizens who attended where very specific about traffic
[2008/04/06 13:02] ThePrincess Parisi: we discussed that at length
[2008/04/06 13:02] You: let’s not do detailed chat about this – didn;t set enough time for it today
[2008/04/06 13:02] Cindy Ecksol is wondering why those good ideas were not expressed at the CC meetings BEFORE the report was offered up
[2008/04/06 13:02] ThePrincess Parisi: nothing else can be measured
[2008/04/06 13:02] MT Lundquist: kk
[2008/04/06 13:03] ThePrincess Parisi: land traffic can
[2008/04/06 13:03] You: ahem 🙂 any other URGENT NEW comments?
[2008/04/06 13:03] Arria Perreault: you could ask the merchants about what they sell
[2008/04/06 13:03] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i have one
[2008/04/06 13:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like the LRA to look at the IMs
[2008/04/06 13:03] Beathan Vale: there will be avid debate on the forum on this one — before the RA needs to act
[2008/04/06 13:03] MT Lundquist: they were cindy
[2008/04/06 13:03] Jamie Palisades is waiting for Prin, and then, he hopes, end of this item for this week
[2008/04/06 13:03] ThePrincess Parisi: cindy was there..
[2008/04/06 13:03] Arria Perreault: I think also that we cannot ask people to give back their plot
[2008/04/06 13:03] ThePrincess Parisi: we can arria
[2008/04/06 13:03] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/04/06 13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[2008/04/06 13:04] Sonja Strom: Arria, would you please post your comments in this thread in the
[2008/04/06 13:04] Sonja Strom: CDS Forum?
[2008/04/06 13:04] Arria Perreault: I will
[2008/04/06 13:04] Beathan Vale: I think we have to be careful in forfeiting plots — especially as there are no residential lots available to move displaced citizens to
[2008/04/06 13:04] Sonja Strom: MT, could you help us to find it?
[2008/04/06 13:04] You: 🙂 Sonja beat me to it – yes please – all comments to the Forum post too
[2008/04/06 13:04] You: and I have one more new commenter than we’re out of time I think
[2008/04/06 13:04] MT Lundquist: i will post after the meeting
[2008/04/06 13:04] ThePrincess Parisi: but that a emergency is that the same ppl that created the current crisis and the need for an election, ruled on that.. and are now running.. i think we need to declare this unconstitutional
[2008/04/06 13:04] ThePrincess Parisi: and
[2008/04/06 13:04] Sonja Strom: Again, we are not making a decision about this in this meeting everybody.
[2008/04/06 13:04] ThePrincess Parisi: oh
[2008/04/06 13:05] You: Gwyneth? You had something on this one (which we agreed to hold over for a week)?
[2008/04/06 13:05] Beathan Vale: Bells — please consent to be published
[2008/04/06 13:05] Beathan Vale: Rain as wll
[2008/04/06 13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who has the floor now, Mr LRA?
[2008/04/06 13:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i thought i did sorry
[2008/04/06 13:05] You: You Gwyn
[2008/04/06 13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, after PRincess then
[2008/04/06 13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess first 😀
[2008/04/06 13:05] You: Oh sorry thought Prin psoke
[2008/04/06 13:05] Bells Semyorka: ok
[2008/04/06 13:05] Rain Ninetails: I consent for the publish
[2008/04/06 13:05] You: go P
[2008/04/06 13:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i did
[2008/04/06 13:05] You: gp G 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:05] Justice Soothsayer: i thought I was next on TP’s electoral issues
[2008/04/06 13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2008/04/06 13:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i said that……………….and
[2008/04/06 13:05] ThePrincess Parisi: who is talked
[2008/04/06 13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that my fellow citizens have been rather nice about saying “I think that the Government should not seize private property”
[2008/04/06 13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think that.
[2008/04/06 13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Private property can only be forfeited
[2008/04/06 13:06] ThePrincess Parisi: well should can and will are different things
[2008/04/06 13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in case of a *crime*
[2008/04/06 13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not because people suddenly have less traffic… sheesh
[2008/04/06 13:07] Bjerkel Eerie thinks its the court not the RA that rules on constutuinality and crimes
[2008/04/06 13:07] You: shh all (except GL)
[2008/04/06 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, Bjerkel
[2008/04/06 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[2008/04/06 13:07] Sonja Strom: Could we please continue this discussion in the Forum?
[2008/04/06 13:07] Moon Adamant raises hand
[2008/04/06 13:07] You: 30 secs, then time GL
[2008/04/06 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depends, Sonja
[2008/04/06 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either this is going to be voted —
[2008/04/06 13:07] Beathan Vale: I think that there will not be strong RA support for forfeiture
[2008/04/06 13:07] You: *sigh*
[2008/04/06 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then we should talk now before it’s too late
[2008/04/06 13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or it will be voted next week
[2008/04/06 13:07] MT Lundquist: I thought we were discussing next week
[2008/04/06 13:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I won’t be Ms Nice Person on the forums, believe me.
[2008/04/06 13:08] Sonja Strom: ok, sorry to interrupt, which I did do.
[2008/04/06 13:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Jamie
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: 🙂 OK an agenda check and arequest for RA agenbda modification – hold up all please –
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: we’;re out of time on this – and –
[2008/04/06 13:08] MT Lundquist: and i’m sad that people who have a strong voice now DIDNT come to the commission meetings with the other citizens
[2008/04/06 13:08] ThePrincess Parisi: they want to have their cake and eat it too
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: anythind more we do here today on this will eat tinme from, e.g.,
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: HUSH
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: at time from “sim development” and Prin’s item on SC
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: so
[2008/04/06 13:08] You: anyone who is RA member want to extend time on this one?
[2008/04/06 13:08] ThePrincess Parisi: i give my time to MT
[2008/04/06 13:08] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOO
[2008/04/06 13:09] ThePrincess Parisi: forums like sonja said
[2008/04/06 13:09] You: that’s meanigless here Priun, sorry
[2008/04/06 13:09] Beathan Vale: I think we should here form Moon and then let her go
[2008/04/06 13:09] Beathan Vale: hear from I mean
[2008/04/06 13:09] You: any diagreemenr with Prin? Hold it for a week – or end-of-today open microphone?
[2008/04/06 13:09] Beathan Vale: “here form Moon” what a weird Freudian slip
[2008/04/06 13:09] Sonja Strom: Did Gwyneth want to say more? I interrupted her.
[2008/04/06 13:09] ThePrincess Parisi: i have an emergency
[2008/04/06 13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no no, I’m finished, Sonja
[2008/04/06 13:09] ThePrincess Parisi: it cannot wait til next week
[2008/04/06 13:09] You: this is on Commerce, still, OK? Gwyn indicated she was done I think
[2008/04/06 13:09] You: OK then
[2008/04/06 13:10] You: Moon, apologies – this will continue on forums and we’ll come back to it
[2008/04/06 13:10] Moon Adamant: ok
====
[2008/04/06 13:10] You: that was item 6.25 taken out of sequence
[2008/04/06 13:10] You: we are back at 5 as Moon is with us
[2008/04/06 13:10] Moon Adamant: 5 being?
[2008/04/06 13:10] Beathan Vale: Guild report on fourth sim progress
[2008/04/06 13:10] You: 5 = new sim planning – except for the new legislation ideas, which are 7
[2008/04/06 13:10] You: 🙂 Moon, your microphone
[2008/04/06 13:10] Moon Adamant: well
[2008/04/06 13:11] Moon Adamant: have the RA prepared the more complete specs we requested?
[2008/04/06 13:11] Beathan Vale: yes — posted
[2008/04/06 13:11] Moon Adamant: yes, your white paper
[2008/04/06 13:11] You: We have a post from Beathan that started the “white paper” thread
[2008/04/06 13:11] Moon Adamant: have they been voted?
[2008/04/06 13:11] Moon Adamant: by this RA, i mean?
[2008/04/06 13:11] Beathan Vale: they were previously voted
[2008/04/06 13:11] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/04/06 13:12] Moon Adamant: previously?
[2008/04/06 13:12] You: does the guild believe that’s inadequate in detail? Or are you asking about their legitimacy. MOON ONLY please
[2008/04/06 13:12] Beathan Vale: everything was already in the approved project —
[2008/04/06 13:12] Moon Adamant: how so?
[2008/04/06 13:12] MT Lundquist: weeks ago
[2008/04/06 13:12] You: sorry – bad typing, but I asked Moon a question there, hope it;s readable
[2008/04/06 13:12] Moon Adamant: i just want to know
[2008/04/06 13:12] Beathan Vale: but — to be clear — I propose we do a clarifying vote
[2008/04/06 13:12] Moon Adamant: if beathan’s ‘white paper’
[2008/04/06 13:12] Moon Adamant: is THE final specs to the Guild
[2008/04/06 13:12] Moon Adamant: oficially
[2008/04/06 13:13] Beathan Vale: There are 5 questions the RA needs to answer — and any further details are inappropriate for legislatiive resolution. These are as follows:
“(i) the rough number of plots
(ii) the range of sizes of plots
(iii) price and affordability
(iv) single/double prim
(v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land
(vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre
(vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory. ”
“1. About 50 lots for sale; remaining land for public lots
2. Lots for sale to be a mix of 512s and 1024s
3. Lots for sale are to be as affordable as possible
4. All lots are presumed to be single prim lots, unless the design provides a significant prim surplusage after public lands are built; this surplusage is to be used to increase prim allotment on private lots
5. Any land left after the zoning of private lots and public access (roads) is to be used for public gardens; the private lots are to be primarily residential
6. gardens
7. roads”
[2008/04/06 13:13] Moon Adamant: stamped and sealed
[2008/04/06 13:13] You: can do – but – I want to know if the Guild believes Beathan’s post fails to meet the legislatively required amount of detail.
[2008/04/06 13:13] You: (post pretty much same as what BV just cut and pasted to this chat)
[2008/04/06 13:14] Moon Adamant: well, guild’s position is clear
[2008/04/06 13:14] You: 🙂 either it’s sufficient or not, kids. Does the Guild have a position? We will assume it IS sufficient if no one says diff
[2008/04/06 13:14] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2008/04/06 13:14] Moon Adamant: the specs must comply to RA bill hmmmm
[2008/04/06 13:14] You: i would like Moon’s answer first please
[2008/04/06 13:14] Beathan Vale: Can we do a clarification vote on the 7 spec item?
[2008/04/06 13:15] You: this is two bodies trying to negotiate officially, folks – it needs attention and clarity, so I am waiting to see if we have a fundamental issue
[2008/04/06 13:15] Pip Torok: sorry folks … have emergency must leave meeting
[2008/04/06 13:15] You: sorry pip, good luck
[2008/04/06 13:15] ThePrincess Parisi: bye pip
[2008/04/06 13:15] ThePrincess Parisi: ty
[2008/04/06 13:15] Arria Perreault: bye pip
[2008/04/06 13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye bye!
[2008/04/06 13:15] Moon Adamant: sorry
[2008/04/06 13:15] Moon Adamant: Guild’s resolution:
[2008/04/06 13:16] Moon Adamant: Guild must be provided with all of the points listed in NL 8-2, section 2, phase 1
[2008/04/06 13:17] Moon Adamant: hmmm, wiki isn’t working for me
[2008/04/06 13:17] You: while waiting for Moon – here is where I believe we are, for clarity. RA adopted an act. It’s posted in transacipt – a long messy transcript. Betahan extracted a shorter clearer set of instructions which he says are the set of instructiosn on the sim – and were adopted. He also says they satisfy ML 8-2 s 2. Either he is right or wrong. I will assume the Guild *accepts* that he is right – unless the Guild tells us different. We are having that very chat, and Moon’s clarifying the Guild’s posiiton.
[2008/04/06 13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://208.101.22.58/~aliasi4/nburgwiki … age=NL+8-2
[2008/04/06 13:17] Beathan Vale: I think my 7 point item does that — doesn’t it?
[2008/04/06 13:18] Jamie Palisades thinks we’ll run over a little on this one, but it’s necessary. But if no Guild representative asserts that the instructosn are insufficient, then they’re been given and *accepted*. So let’s get that sorted out now, hm?
[2008/04/06 13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2008/04/06 13:19] Beathan Vale: for clarity — can we issue an informational vote on my seven points
[2008/04/06 13:19] Moon Adamant: I am sorry…. having lots of issues with wiki, let me try Gwyn’s link
[2008/04/06 13:19] Cindy Ecksol is still raising hand….
[2008/04/06 13:19] Beathan Vale: to be fair — one item was implied but not expressed in previous session
[2008/04/06 13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon, scroll back on History, Beathan posted the relevant section and the RA’s answer
[2008/04/06 13:19] Beathan Vale: There are 5 questions the RA needs to answer — and any further details are inappropriate for legislative resolution. These are as follows:
“(i) the rough number of plots
(ii) the range of sizes of plots
(iii) price and affordability
(iv) single/double prim
(v) rough balance between public, private and commercial land
(vi) any specific public builds e.g. the ampitheatre
(vii) any other infrastructure that can serve the interest of the community and territory. ”
“1. About 50 lots for sale; remaining land for public lots
2. Lots for sale to be a mix of 512s and 1024s
3. Lots for sale are to be as affordable as possible
4. All lots are presumed to be single prim lots, unless the design provides a significant prim surplusage after public lands are built; this surplusage is to be used to increase prim allotment on private lots
5. Any land left after the zoning of private lots and public access (roads) is to be used for public gardens; the private lots are to be primarily residential
6. gardens
7. roads”
[2008/04/06 13:20] You: Cindy: apologies, but I wish to wait for Moon, who’s a privileged speaker on this topic
[2008/04/06 13:20] You: sometimes we get better answers if we wait politely for them 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:21] Beathan Vale: also — I should clarify 2 that the RA specifically OKs clustering
[2008/04/06 13:21] Moon Adamant: thanks Beathan, for the correct questions
[2008/04/06 13:21] Moon Adamant: your white paper gives considerable latitude to the Guild – is that acceptable?
[2008/04/06 13:22] Moon Adamant: for instance
[2008/04/06 13:22] Beathan Vale: yes — I think it was intended
[2008/04/06 13:22] ThePrincess Parisi: indeed
[2008/04/06 13:22] Moon Adamant: you say
[2008/04/06 13:22] Moon Adamant: 3. Lots for sale are to be as affordable as possible
[2008/04/06 13:23] Moon Adamant: this means taht the Guild will do a financial study to determine a minimal price/m2 – is this acceptable?
[2008/04/06 13:23] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/04/06 13:23] Moon Adamant: of course, all of this will be reviewed by you later on
[2008/04/06 13:23] ThePrincess Parisi: sure i am sure that will take a LONG LONG time
[2008/04/06 13:23] ThePrincess Parisi: perhaps you search land sales instead
[2008/04/06 13:23] Moon Adamant: Princess
[2008/04/06 13:23] You: hush please – Moon has the floor
[2008/04/06 13:23] ThePrincess Parisi: the data is all there hun
[2008/04/06 13:23] MT Lundquist: yes takes aboout 5 mins
[2008/04/06 13:23] Beathan Vale: and we defer to the guild on aesthetic standards — which should inform the minimum price possible
[2008/04/06 13:24] You: Moon, please let me know when you are done – and please try to conclude withint 2 minutes
[2008/04/06 13:24] Moon Adamant: as I generally hand the financial study to the experts, I am not going to comment what you said
[2008/04/06 13:24] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/06 13:24] Moon Adamant: i’ll try to resume then
[2008/04/06 13:25] Moon Adamant: i think we can work with this, but on the assumption that the specs as defined by beathan on his whit epaper
[2008/04/06 13:25] Moon Adamant: give the Guild considerable latitude
[2008/04/06 13:25] Moon Adamant: we assume that is what you intend?
[2008/04/06 13:26] Beathan Vale: yes — fair assumption
[2008/04/06 13:26] You: 30 seconds please.
[2008/04/06 13:26] Moon Adamant: ok, then we will start working on these s+pecs over our masterplan
[2008/04/06 13:27] You: I will ask Cindy to comment in a moment. (RA members speak first under our rules, with a few exceptions.) First though, let me comment. The RA passed these instructions before I joined the RA. I have heard a lot of support — AND a lot of misgivings about them. But they stand, and we MUST FIRST confirm if the Guild has what it understand to be sufficient direction. I believe Moon has said “yes”. Even if these instructions are debated later, or a more detailed plan comes back from Guild to RA. So. I think the right next question, after Cindy speaks, will be “when can the RA have a more detailed plan back from the Guild?”
[2008/04/06 13:27] Moon Adamant: and as usual, we will present a final plan to this RA to apprve
[2008/04/06 13:27] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/04/06 13:27] You: Done Moon?
[2008/04/06 13:27] You: (for this item anyway)
[2008/04/06 13:27] Moon Adamant: just one question more
[2008/04/06 13:27] MT Lundquist: can we have an answer to the when from moon please
[2008/04/06 13:27] You: we’re running behind. WAIT PLEASE
[2008/04/06 13:28] You: I ask the RA to extend this item for 5 minutes. Any objection?
[2008/04/06 13:28] You: (I will get there MT)
[2008/04/06 13:28] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:28] You: I hear no objections….
[2008/04/06 13:28] Moon Adamant: The Guild may wish to review specs with RA at any time… say we can only fit 44 plots – can we come back and dicuss it with you?
[2008/04/06 13:29] You: Of course. OK, extended to 13h32. Cindy: 2 minutes please
[2008/04/06 13:29] Beathan Vale: yes — but a sim has room for 129 512s
[2008/04/06 13:29] Beathan Vale: 128 I mean
[2008/04/06 13:29] Cindy Ecksol: thank you
[2008/04/06 13:29] Beathan Vale: so I think that 50 should be doable
[2008/04/06 13:29] You: “Cindy”
[2008/04/06 13:29] Moon Adamant: yes, but it also needs roads and gardens 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:29] MT Lundquist: yep
[2008/04/06 13:29] Moon Adamant: and this one has a river too
[2008/04/06 13:29] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/06 13:29] Beathan Vale: ::nod::
[2008/04/06 13:29] Cindy Ecksol: my concern is that beathan’s proposal includes direction to the guild for 512/1024 single prim lots….
[2008/04/06 13:29] Cindy Ecksol: I do not see anywhere that this was authorized.
[2008/04/06 13:29] Cindy Ecksol: nor discussed, for that matter.
[2008/04/06 13:30] ThePrincess Parisi: by who cindy?
[2008/04/06 13:30] You: would the attendees please give the floor to Cindy? meaning,others be quiet untiul she’s done?
[2008/04/06 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: by the RA
[2008/04/06 13:30] ThePrincess Parisi: the guild authorized it
[2008/04/06 13:30] ThePrincess Parisi: we voted on it
[2008/04/06 13:30] Moon Adamant: pardon?
[2008/04/06 13:30] Beathan Vale: Cindy — Feb 24 meeting I think
[2008/04/06 13:30] ThePrincess Parisi: the RA did i mean
[2008/04/06 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: I do not recall hearing ANY discussion on the single-prim issue
[2008/04/06 13:30] Moon Adamant: ah ok
[2008/04/06 13:30] You: EXCUSE ME
[2008/04/06 13:30] Beathan Vale: we considered 4 proposals — a 50 lot mixed 512/1024 passed
[2008/04/06 13:30] You: A question to Beathen, yes or no – is THAT detail in your white paper?
[2008/04/06 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: YES!!!! BUT NOT THE SINGLE PRIMS!!!
[2008/04/06 13:31] Cindy Ecksol: I read the detail in the white paper, jamie — that is why I am asking
[2008/04/06 13:31] ThePrincess Parisi: fit our lots first then put your rivers and things in
[2008/04/06 13:31] Beathan Vale: the single prim detail is in the white paper — it is the issue that was not specifically discussed, but I think implied — my suggestion is that the lots are single prims unless there are prims left over from the garden — extra prims should go to make the lots double prims
[2008/04/06 13:31] You: *sigh*
[2008/04/06 13:31] ThePrincess Parisi: we voted on it cindy
[2008/04/06 13:31] You: Prin please hush
[2008/04/06 13:31] Beathan Vale: or — something new — prim and a half
[2008/04/06 13:31] ThePrincess Parisi: we voted on single prims
[2008/04/06 13:31] You: Beathan, thank you
[2008/04/06 13:31] Beathan Vale: however — it may be fair to revote on this
[2008/04/06 13:32] Beathan Vale: I think single prims were implied — unless extra prims available — but I don’t think we actually voted on the issue
[2008/04/06 13:32] Cindy Ecksol: single prim and 512 do NOT make for quality builds in my personal opinion. that is why I am asking about this. needs to be discussed
[2008/04/06 13:32] Moon Adamant: can I propose that we have a look at the matter first?
[2008/04/06 13:32] You: we “guild”?
[2008/04/06 13:32] Beathan Vale: Cindy — that is why the RA authorized clustering
[2008/04/06 13:32] Moon Adamant: yes, we guild
[2008/04/06 13:32] ThePrincess Parisi: cindy the y are lots not build
[2008/04/06 13:32] You: BV can we do THAT next week after taking any Guild comments into account – assuming they comment before next Saturday?
[2008/04/06 13:33] ThePrincess Parisi: and ppl can buy more than one
[2008/04/06 13:33] You: Prin
[2008/04/06 13:33] Beathan Vale: again — a 10 unit tenement on a 5120 could be a very nice build
[2008/04/06 13:33] You: you are way out of order Prin, unless you are recognized
[2008/04/06 13:33] You: as are others, increasingly – we’re a legislature, not a pub 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:33] You: so
[2008/04/06 13:33] Beathan Vale: I want the next sim to have a pub for the RA to use!
[2008/04/06 13:34] ThePrincess Parisi: lol i just bought a pub
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: Beathan. Can we do your incipient amendment about single-poim next week? To give the Guild 6 days to comment?
[2008/04/06 13:34] Beathan Vale: yes — good idea
[2008/04/06 13:34] Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into MT’s hand.
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: we’re at time limit again, as extended 🙂 please say yes
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: OK
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:34] MT Lundquist: just in case
[2008/04/06 13:34] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: Moon we are out of time
[2008/04/06 13:34] ThePrincess Parisi: no extending
[2008/04/06 13:34] Beathan Vale: also we may want to clarify that the average is to be 512 to 1024 and that clustering is OK
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: Prin 🙂 I was not asking for an extension
[2008/04/06 13:34] ThePrincess Parisi: and that its not builds
[2008/04/06 13:34] You: shh all
[2008/04/06 13:35] Moon Adamant: Jamie?
[2008/04/06 13:35] MT Lundquist: no extended
[2008/04/06 13:35] You: No more time on this one, guys, please settle down
[2008/04/06 13:35] You: we’ll get back to it next week 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:35] You: and thanks Cindy for raising it
[2008/04/06 13:35] You: now
[2008/04/06 13:35] Cindy Ecksol: yw
====
[2008/04/06 13:35] You: item – hm – 6.5
[2008/04/06 13:35] Moon Adamant: i already stated what i had to say: Guild assumes it has considerable latitute and that can come back to RA for further clarification at any time
[2008/04/06 13:35] You: Agree. MOVING ON. Prin’s issue raised today – and I have one citizen who wants to speak – and 10 minutes. BUT FIRST
[2008/04/06 13:36] You: Let’s be real clear 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:36] You: I caution everyone that the rules give me as interim LRA the chance to be a lot meaner than you’ve seen so far, so long as I am just about it. Get into personalities and you may be surprised. We can legitimately discuss conflicts of interest and institutional issues. I will NOT tolerate personal attacks or questioning of motives from ANYONE. I will shut the meeting down or eject people first.
[2008/04/06 13:36] You: with that in mind, Prin, your floor 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:36] ThePrincess Parisi: I’m concerned aqbout this sequence of events: CSDF resigned from their seats saying they have no candidates for office, the RA asks the SC to run an election, The SC is asked to rule on whether CSDF (who now have candidates apparently) can run. The SC says they can, but heres the issue: The SC that voted is Claude DPU, Gwynn CSDF, Justice CSDF. Gwynn and Justice now are casndidates for the RA seats. This is a clear conflict of interest.
[2008/04/06 13:37] You: Prin I see no more typing – done?
[2008/04/06 13:37] Beathan Vale: Johnny please assent to have chat published and detach yourself from my lap
[2008/04/06 13:37] You: 🙂 not in that order
[2008/04/06 13:37] MT Lundquist: I think she may have crashed
[2008/04/06 13:37] You: Hm
[2008/04/06 13:37] Beathan Vale: thanks lol
[2008/04/06 13:37] You: I still see Prin – but let’s hold her place for a sec while I make two proecduiral comments.
[2008/04/06 13:38] MT Lundquist: They should have recused themselves from the vote if they intended to run
[2008/04/06 13:38] MT Lundquist: thats the end of her statement
[2008/04/06 13:38] MT Lundquist: i have her notecard
[2008/04/06 13:38] You: Thanks MT: First of my two comments is, I have one person non-RA who wishes to speak, that’s Justice – so anyone else please say so (except RA).
[2008/04/06 13:38] You: thanks
[2008/04/06 13:38] Beathan Vale: I think that the time for announcing candidacies had not yet been reached — and they may not yet have decided to run.
[2008/04/06 13:39] Beathan Vale: any other position is speculative.
[2008/04/06 13:39] Beathan Vale: that said — I expect that they will recuse themselves from administering or ruling on an election in which they are running.
[2008/04/06 13:39] MT Lundquist: yes that would be wise of them.
[2008/04/06 13:39] You: Here’s my second comment: I think CDS desperately needs conflict of interest law 🙂 we have little. Given that, I find it hard to see what could possibly be the basis for an allegation …
[2008/04/06 13:40] You: 🙂 now
[2008/04/06 13:40] You: Justice?
[2008/04/06 13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:40] Justice Soothsayer: Thanks
[2008/04/06 13:40] Justice Soothsayer: There are a couple of statements made by thePrincess (at the outset of this meeting) that I would point out are not quite accurate. First, she says that Gwyn and I caused the need for the by-election. That is not the case. True, the resignation of the members of our faction from the RA caused the need for the by-election, but neither of the two of us were the ones who resigned.
[2008/04/06 13:40] Justice Soothsayer: In fact, TP suggested at the last SC meeting that Gwyn and I could simply assume the CSDF seats by claiming them. I declined to do so, since I think it is far better for the entire community to decide who occupies those vacant seats.
[2008/04/06 13:40] Justice Soothsayer: Next, TP says “thar be no SC” since two members of the SC are candidates in the by-election. That is also not accurate, as there are SC members who are not running who could handle any challenges relating to the election. Moreover, our decisions to run came only AFTER the SC meeting regarding the challenges to the RA’s decisions on the election and only after a lot of careful consideration. I am sure Claude will confirm that timeline.
[2008/04/06 13:40] Justice Soothsayer: (And, BTW, the outcome of that SC meeting was the one thePrincess wanted, which was to find that the 10% faction rule and the “elimination of faction elimination” acts were constitutional. Ironic, no? And makes it hard to complain about alleged procedural irregularities)
[2008/04/06 13:41] Justice Soothsayer: There is precedent for SC members running in the election. Indeed, it could be argued that an SC member who is elected to the RA does not have to resign from the RA, just recuse themselves from the SC for the duration of the term. Neverthless, Gwyn and I have both said we will resign from the SC if elected to this august body.
[2008/04/06 13:41] Justice Soothsayer: Thanks for listening.
[2008/04/06 13:41] Beathan Vale: yes — that has been done
[2008/04/06 13:41] Beathan Vale: I believe that we have had at least one person serve on the SC while running (SP candidate Diderot)
[2008/04/06 13:41] Justice Soothsayer returns the floor to the LRA
[2008/04/06 13:41] You: OK – and thanks – and perhaps Prin wishes to respond, but before that: (1) anyone else? and (2) MT could you get any missing part of Justice’s comments to Prin?
[2008/04/06 13:41] ThePrincess Parisi: but they also didnt create the empty seats i think
[2008/04/06 13:41] Beathan Vale: and I think we have even had plurality of office
[2008/04/06 13:41] ThePrincess Parisi: well its not just about them running
[2008/04/06 13:42] ThePrincess Parisi: its because they also created the vacancies
[2008/04/06 13:42] Beathan Vale: recusal is appropriate procedural method — given we still have a small community
[2008/04/06 13:42] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2008/04/06 13:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and were in on all the things.. privy to the plan of the CSDF to grief us
[2008/04/06 13:42] Jamie Palisades notes that some office overlaps are in fact prohibited under current law — but not acting in one role while fishing for another 🙂 and I see NO recusal law at present — sadly
[2008/04/06 13:42] Beathan Vale: but — we do need more clarity on conflicts of interest — in RA, SC and other arms of govt
[2008/04/06 13:42] You: Beathan?
[2008/04/06 13:42] You: let me know when you are done w/in next 2 mins please, then ThePrincess
[2008/04/06 13:42] ThePrincess Parisi: what do we do then, if there is a concern, we need to go to the SC with in the election
[2008/04/06 13:43] Jamie Palisades sighs floridly
[2008/04/06 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: no I crashed I wasnt done
[2008/04/06 13:43] Beathan Vale: JP — true — no recusal law — but there is a recusal practice — and the SC could find it implied in the Cosntitution separation of powers
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: Beathan’s talking 🙂 let him finish first please
[2008/04/06 13:43] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: OK, Prin?
[2008/04/06 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: ok I’m done I caught up
[2008/04/06 13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FYI There are five members in the SC
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: ok
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: any others who wish to speak?
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:43] Cindy Ecksol: me, please
[2008/04/06 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: but you were part of the plan then you ruled on it
[2008/04/06 13:43] ThePrincess Parisi: that was so wrong
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: hold a sec – anyone else? last call 🙂
[2008/04/06 13:43] You: shh
[2008/04/06 13:44] Cindy Ecksol raises hand!!!!
[2008/04/06 13:44] Jamie Palisades sees no other would-be speaker
[2008/04/06 13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn points at Cindy
[2008/04/06 13:44] Beathan Vale: Cindy
[2008/04/06 13:44] You: 🙂 Cindy go
[2008/04/06 13:44] Cindy Ecksol: thx
[2008/04/06 13:44] Cindy Ecksol: while I think that prin may be right about the conflict of interest…
[2008/04/06 13:44] Cindy Ecksol: …I also see no constitutional crisis that requires intervention…
[2008/04/06 13:45] Cindy Ecksol: ….neither gwyn nor justice is doing anything that is specifically prohibited…..
[2008/04/06 13:45] ThePrincess Parisi: ok then I’m done
[2008/04/06 13:45] ThePrincess Parisi: w/e
[2008/04/06 13:45] Cindy Ecksol: and I am sure that they will recognize conflicts of interest as they come up and recuse themselves appropriately…..
[2008/04/06 13:45] Cindy Ecksol: that’s all
[2008/04/06 13:45] You: thanks …
[2008/04/06 13:45] ThePrincess Parisi: how do they retroactively do that though for what gwyn did
[2008/04/06 13:45] You: I note no motion on the floor — and no applicable legislation — and an agenda item later about possible new conflict of interest laws — and we are out of time — so I think we are done 🙂 unless someone moves to extend time NOW
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: ?
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: 🙂
====
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: Beathan – next item
[2008/04/06 13:46] ThePrincess Parisi: I dont understand though
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: which is yours
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: 7?
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: private development
[2008/04/06 13:46] ThePrincess Parisi: they made the rules..
[2008/04/06 13:46] ThePrincess Parisi: ok sorry
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: hang on
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: Prin
[2008/04/06 13:46] ThePrincess Parisi stops
[2008/04/06 13:46] Beathan Vale: brb
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: we’re done
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: on your item 6.5 that is
[2008/04/06 13:46] Beathan Vale: I would like to defer this item until I can process the Guild comments
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: and you can bring a motion next meeting if you like
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: OK fair enough
[2008/04/06 13:46] Beathan Vale: But I am willing to hear other discussion
[2008/04/06 13:46] You: let me provide a pointer
[2008/04/06 13:47] ThePrincess Parisi: no no
[2008/04/06 13:47] You: 1. Beathan’s proposal URI in the agenda for this meeting …
[2008/04/06 13:47] You: 2. AND
[2008/04/06 13:47] ThePrincess Parisi: I wanna do Beathan’s bill
[2008/04/06 13:47] You: Guild comments also have a URI pointer there
[2008/04/06 13:47] You: Beathan wants to wait and has made no mnotion
[2008/04/06 13:47] ThePrincess Parisi: I move we do Beathan’s bill now
[2008/04/06 13:47] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/04/06 13:47] You: OK
[2008/04/06 13:48] You: 🙂 there’s a motion and second
[2008/04/06 13:48] You: Discussion on Beathan’s bill, moved by Prin? I will suggest Beathan first?
[2008/04/06 13:48] ThePrincess Parisi: hes brb
[2008/04/06 13:48] You: ah right
[2008/04/06 13:48] You: Prin then? Your motion
[2008/04/06 13:48] You: and I want to get Moon too – due to Guild extensive comments
[2008/04/06 13:48] ThePrincess Parisi: I wanna say that this is not something Beathan did in a vacuum
[2008/04/06 13:48] ThePrincess Parisi: after the “exodux”
[2008/04/06 13:48] ThePrincess Parisi: exodus
[2008/04/06 13:49] ThePrincess Parisi: there were lots and lots of meetings with the publiec
[2008/04/06 13:49] ThePrincess Parisi: many many CDS members of all factions
[2008/04/06 13:49] ThePrincess Parisi: for long discussions on this matter
[2008/04/06 13:49] ThePrincess Parisi: i think dispite teh guild posting
[2008/04/06 13:49] ThePrincess Parisi: we move as the citizens made clear that they want us to
[2008/04/06 13:50] You: @ default 2 minute limits, you have 60 secs left Prin
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: many many were involved, albiet informally
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: that they wanted this
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: we went through each scenario
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: they did
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: we tweaked it
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: Beathan made lots of changes to his original plan
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: everyone was invited
[2008/04/06 13:50] ThePrincess Parisi: it went on for days.. weeks on the forum
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: he did his civic duty and the citizens spoke
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: this bill is ………needed
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: essential
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and urgent
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: we have new citizens who want to live here
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: we need them
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: volunteers are weary
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: we HAVE to have a sim
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: the guild will stay as they are
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and be precious to us
[2008/04/06 13:51] You: time – 15 secs
[2008/04/06 13:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and we always want them as part of CDS
[2008/04/06 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: this takes their burden off
[2008/04/06 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: it doesnt take THEM away
[2008/04/06 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: it helps them
[2008/04/06 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: I vote we do it and NOW
[2008/04/06 13:52] ThePrincess Parisi: end
[2008/04/06 13:52] You: thx
[2008/04/06 13:52] You: Is beathan back?
[2008/04/06 13:52] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/04/06 13:52] You: him & then Moon, please
[2008/04/06 13:52] You: to Prin’s motion to enact this now
[2008/04/06 13:52] Beathan Vale: I just received the Guild’s comments yesterday and I am still processing them
[2008/04/06 13:53] Beathan Vale: I think that my modified proposal (which was modified after substantial conversations in world and on the forums — as TP pointed out) answers many of the Guild’s questions — but not all of them
[2008/04/06 13:53] Beathan Vale: I agree that we have an intolerable situation — no land for new citizens
[2008/04/06 13:53] Jon Seattle: I agree to be recorded.
[2008/04/06 13:54] You: (thx Jon)
[2008/04/06 13:54] Beathan Vale: we should always have an ability to bring in new citizens — which means we need to run a land surplus
[2008/04/06 13:54] Beathan Vale: or — at best — jist in time inventory
[2008/04/06 13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Jon 🙂 )
[2008/04/06 13:54] Beathan Vale: we are running on a “when we can” inventory — and that is a problem
[2008/04/06 13:55] Beathan Vale: that said — I think that another week to tweak and refine the proposal in light of the Guild’s comments (again, received yesterday) would not be out of line
[2008/04/06 13:55] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/04/06 13:55] You: hmmm BV, I may call for a vote when you are done – on the Q of act now, versus next week, I am hearing no “new news”
[2008/04/06 13:55] You: OK. Members ready to vote?
[2008/04/06 13:55] Sonja Strom: sure
[2008/04/06 13:55] You: Moon:
[2008/04/06 13:55] ThePrincess Parisi: well i think we can talk about it now and vote next week
[2008/04/06 13:55] You: anything you want to say ABOUT acting immeidtaely, versus next week?
[2008/04/06 13:55] ThePrincess Parisi: I havent read the guild’s comments but I know this is paramount
[2008/04/06 13:55] You: Prin
[2008/04/06 13:55] ThePrincess Parisi: I think we act by discussing
[2008/04/06 13:55] You: please wait your turn
[2008/04/06 13:56] Bjerkel Eerie wonders if this is a community or a phone company looking for subscibers
[2008/04/06 13:56] You: sigh
[2008/04/06 13:56] You: Moon do you have anything to say at the moment?
[2008/04/06 13:56] Beathan Vale: It is a colony that lives and dies by immigration
[2008/04/06 13:56] Moon Adamant: sorry
[2008/04/06 13:56] MT Lundquist: I agree with Beathan
[2008/04/06 13:56] Moon Adamant: well, just a comment on the the draft analysis process
[2008/04/06 13:56] MT Lundquist: we grow or we die
[2008/04/06 13:56] You: That’s the white haired person with wings — in case any of the rest of you are having momentarily attacks of thinking you are Moon, or have the floor
[2008/04/06 13:57] Moon Adamant: lol
[2008/04/06 13:57] Sonja Strom: haha
[2008/04/06 13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/04/06 13:57] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/06 13:57] Jamie Palisades is waiting to see if Moon is typing before anyone else gets the floor
[2008/04/06 13:58] Moon Adamant: we tried to make a in-depth analysis of issues that could occur with the situation of private sims
[2008/04/06 13:58] Moon Adamant: it is not an exhaustive document, or a complete document
[2008/04/06 13:58] Moon Adamant: in our opinion, it should be publically discussed still
[2008/04/06 13:58] Moon Adamant: so that the CDS, when starting this new model of growth
[2008/04/06 13:59] Moon Adamant: is as sure on its feet as possible
[2008/04/06 13:59] MT Lundquist raises his hand
[2008/04/06 13:59] Moon Adamant: other than that, I would like to thank everyone who contributed to the document – and who were not few
[2008/04/06 13:59] Moon Adamant: my many, many thanks
[2008/04/06 13:59] Moon Adamant: I am done
[2008/04/06 13:59] You: thanks.
[2008/04/06 14:00] You: Ready to vote?
[2008/04/06 14:00] MT Lundquist: may I speak
[2008/04/06 14:00] You: We’re out of time – can you do 30 secs?
[2008/04/06 14:00] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/04/06 14:00] You: thx
[2008/04/06 14:00] MT Lundquist: Basically
[2008/04/06 14:00] MT Lundquist: I believe that this can be discussed and amended this week and proposed for vote next week
[2008/04/06 14:01] MT Lundquist: I’m from the UK
[2008/04/06 14:01] MT Lundquist: but have read the history of Sseattle and its growth
[2008/04/06 14:01] MT Lundquist: Tthey didnt do it by wasting time
[2008/04/06 14:01] MT Lundquist: end
[2008/04/06 14:01] ThePrincess Parisi: :)))
[2008/04/06 14:01] You: OK – and thx
[2008/04/06 14:01] Jon Seattle Seattle never waists time!
[2008/04/06 14:01] Beathan Vale: there is one critical element that I need to add to this proposal — IP rights
[2008/04/06 14:01] MT Lundquist: the city
[2008/04/06 14:01] You: Now a vote. Note, this is on Prin’s motion to enact now
[2008/04/06 14:02] Moon Adamant: planning never wastes time
[2008/04/06 14:02] MT Lundquist: jon the city
[2008/04/06 14:02] You: hush y’all
[2008/04/06 14:02] Beathan Vale: several other items in the report call for explanation — but that one is missing from the act entirely
[2008/04/06 14:02] You: Membrs please state their votes. I vote nay – happy to wait a week
[2008/04/06 14:02] ThePrincess Parisi: nay
[2008/04/06 14:02] Beathan Vale: nay — wait a week
[2008/04/06 14:02] MT Lundquist: nay wait a week
[2008/04/06 14:02] Sonja Strom: nay
[2008/04/06 14:02] You: Sonja?
[2008/04/06 14:02] You: OK
[2008/04/06 14:02] You: thank you all for a very orderly process on that.
====
[2008/04/06 14:02] You: OK, folks. Let us do an agenda and time check. We are behind – quelle surprise – and we have item 8 (new possible legislation) to discuss, and the ill-fated open discussion item we rarely can get to start. Here’s my suggestion. I propose we let Arria, our PIO, give us an announcement about imminent events, for 60 seconds, if RA members do not object — silence is OK if you assent 🙂 — THEN ask RA members if you want to extend the meeting.
[2008/04/06 14:03] You: If I do not hear RA members kvetch I will indulge my megalomania and assume Arria may make her announcement 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:03] Arria Perreault: ok
[2008/04/06 14:03] Arria Perreault: I am working for a presentation of the CDS activities in the Dreams Fair Booth and Events. We are invites. It’s only for non-commercial activities. I have discussed this with Alex and we intend to present our cultural activities. We will have one hour presentation and booth for the whole event, from 11-25 April.
[2008/04/06 14:04] Arria Perreault: I will inform citizen by notice
[2008/04/06 14:04] Beathan Vale: excellent
[2008/04/06 14:04] You: Where is it in SL, Arria? Or is there a Forum post with pointers?
[2008/04/06 14:04] ThePrincess Parisi: fantastic
[2008/04/06 14:04] You: or a web URI? shrug
[2008/04/06 14:04] Arria Perreault: Not yet. You will be informed soon. I am working on
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: OK 🙂 thank you VERY much for that, sounds great – and great that we are invited. Anything else Arria?
[2008/04/06 14:05] Sonja Strom: Great – yes, I think this could be posted in the Forum under CDS events.
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:05] Sonja Strom: I did that for a Cultural Festival once.
[2008/04/06 14:05] Jamie Palisades looks for typing, sees none
[2008/04/06 14:05] Cindy Ecksol: one more thing: CDS calendar displays are now up in all three sims….check them out
[2008/04/06 14:05] Arria Perreault: the Google Calender is functioning now
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: Thanks then Arria, and good work to you 🙂 and thx Cindy
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: YAY
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: OK
[2008/04/06 14:05] Arria Perreault: Thank you Cindy to filling
[2008/04/06 14:05] Sonja Strom: Where are they Cindy?
[2008/04/06 14:05] Cindy Ecksol: let me know if you have problems….and send me events!!!
====
[2008/04/06 14:05] You: RA members: do you wish to extend this meeting? say 20 mins
[2008/04/06 14:06] Sonja Strom: Yes
[2008/04/06 14:06] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/04/06 14:06] Cindy Ecksol: center of NFS, CN Forum and on one of the paths in AM
[2008/04/06 14:06] Beathan Vale: I am an abitrator on Tues — and still have about 2000 pages to read
[2008/04/06 14:06] Sonja Strom: ok, thanks!
[2008/04/06 14:06] Cindy Ecksol: can’t miss them if you walk…
[2008/04/06 14:06] You: Thanks but hush, Cin… . BV, that’s a “no”?
[2008/04/06 14:06] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand
[2008/04/06 14:06] Beathan Vale: call it a “disinclined” for now
[2008/04/06 14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2008/04/06 14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “disinclined”…. hehe
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: 🙂 prin are you in favor or against 20 minute meeting extension? Only thing that’s open for discvussion just now
[2008/04/06 14:07] ThePrincess Parisi: favor
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: OK 4’s pretty good 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: BV, let’s say, stay as long as you can 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:07] Beathan Vale: I’ll stick around and then read quickly
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: NOTE no new laws to be adopted, so quorum not as urgent here
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: 🙂 ok
====
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: next item
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: 8
[2008/04/06 14:07] You: Thsi is about new bills coming down the road towards us
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: NOT intended to be detailed
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: but best we note they’re coming
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: 8a does not NEED chat because
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: it’s Beathan’s bill we just discussed
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: “tune in next week” 🙂
====
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: 8b
[2008/04/06 14:08] You: Moon’s post from the Guild about possible charter changes
[2008/04/06 14:09] You: Moon, do we expect that to be a proposed bill soon?
[2008/04/06 14:09] Moon Adamant: well, hard to say atm
[2008/04/06 14:09] Moon Adamant: we have to think on it not only in therms of the draft analysis
[2008/04/06 14:09] You: hmm – shoudl we set it for discussion next week, and see?
[2008/04/06 14:09] You: at RA I mean ..
[2008/04/06 14:09] Moon Adamant: hmmm
[2008/04/06 14:09] Moon Adamant: no
[2008/04/06 14:10] Moon Adamant: I want a specific advice
[2008/04/06 14:10] You: OK fair enough – but all who are interested, please see the posts (New Guild forum board)
[2008/04/06 14:10] You: yes Moon?
[2008/04/06 14:10] Moon Adamant: which I won’t get before two weeks, and which has to do with the Board’s role as Agent
[2008/04/06 14:10] You: yes?
[2008/04/06 14:11] Moon Adamant: well, I have to gather info on that
[2008/04/06 14:11] You: Maybe we have quick answer, maybe not, but can you state the specific question?
[2008/04/06 14:11] You: or is it too early for that also?
[2008/04/06 14:11] Moon Adamant: I am not an agent… so i won’t invent stuff… always ask
[2008/04/06 14:11] Moon Adamant: too early
[2008/04/06 14:11] Moon Adamant: I don’t even know if it is only a quyestion
[2008/04/06 14:11] You: OK 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:11] You: good
[2008/04/06 14:12] Moon Adamant: I think that on this matter
[2008/04/06 14:12] Moon Adamant: it’s best if we come back to you on this
[2008/04/06 14:12] Jamie Palisades notes, good – but no agenda item on THAT expected for next week
[2008/04/06 14:12] ThePrincess Parisi: ok but I have a thing regarding the exec office I need to discuss .. can we do that or not
[2008/04/06 14:12] Moon Adamant: rather than try and do futurology
[2008/04/06 14:12] You: at the end of the scheduled items Prin , yes
====
[2008/04/06 14:12] You: OK, next item
[2008/04/06 14:12] You: 8c
[2008/04/06 14:12] You: A notice from me 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:13] You: Several have told me the LRA needs to have someone to mind stuff like rules and the transscript
[2008/04/06 14:13] You: I am mulling that over – and may bring a bill next week
[2008/04/06 14:13] You: and comments are welcome informally – to me directly please, not here and now – it’s too speculative
[2008/04/06 14:13] You: (I might decide it’s not worth it, too, or should wait until we know who next LRA is)
====
[2008/04/06 14:13] You: OK? next item
[2008/04/06 14:13] You: 8d
[2008/04/06 14:14] You: 🙂 how WILL we select the dang LRA after the by-election? please NOTE
[2008/04/06 14:14] You: 1. there are bills on this – and proposed ones – and the Forum posts are linked from this meeting’s agenda
[2008/04/06 14:14] You: (so go think 🙂 )
[2008/04/06 14:14] You: 2. This is not hypothetical 🙂 we will have new 2 new RA members in a month
[2008/04/06 14:14] You: and finally 3.
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: heh
[2008/04/06 14:15] ThePrincess Parisi: well i want to add an amendment to it
[2008/04/06 14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: Some have said to me – and I have to say it’s more than one person from more than one party –
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: that no action is needed – I just get to keep it
[2008/04/06 14:15] ThePrincess Parisi: add
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: (hang on Prin)
[2008/04/06 14:15] ThePrincess Parisi: kk
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: so let me say clearly – I want this to be something that the entire RA is *as comfortable with* as it can be
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: including and new members 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:15] You: that’s why I am having this chat now
[2008/04/06 14:16] You: and I may bring a bill next week – and Prin has another one 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:16] You: good time for her to briefly mention that if she wishes
[2008/04/06 14:16] You: Prin?
[2008/04/06 14:16] Sonja Strom: Jamie, comfortable with what exactly?
[2008/04/06 14:16] ThePrincess Parisi clears her throat
[2008/04/06 14:16] ThePrincess Parisi: well…
[2008/04/06 14:16] ThePrincess Parisi: first of all even though my name is on the bill, it was very much coordinated with all factions aside from the CSDF
[2008/04/06 14:17] ThePrincess Parisi: so NuCare, and SP and DPU were all in talks about this
[2008/04/06 14:17] ThePrincess Parisi: it needs to also be coordinated with the citizens voting for chancellor though
[2008/04/06 14:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and that issue is a combined one for the LRA to have the true meaning it has now.. to lead the meetings not rule the RA
[2008/04/06 14:18] Beathan Vale: very true — given that the RA is so unruly
[2008/04/06 14:18] ThePrincess Parisi: moi?
[2008/04/06 14:18] ThePrincess Parisi: how is your bill different Jamie?
[2008/04/06 14:18] You: @Sonja : I hear your Q, waiting for others before replying
[2008/04/06 14:18] ThePrincess Parisi: oh sorry sonja
[2008/04/06 14:19] Sonja Strom: sure, not a problem 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:19] You: @Prin I am suggesting we elect the next one AFTER a by-election, and NOT yet try to force the issue of whether the LRA ALWAYS is elected after GENERAL Elections … and the reason for this is …
[2008/04/06 14:20] You: that I suspect we won’t have a strong enough community consensus to make such a major change permanently (LRA always elected) before the upcoming by-election .. but of course 🙂 I could be wrong
[2008/04/06 14:20] Jamie Palisades looks back at Prin, having answered
[2008/04/06 14:20] ThePrincess Parisi: huh? ok I don’t get it.. but
[2008/04/06 14:20] ThePrincess Parisi: you mean for this one time
[2008/04/06 14:20] ThePrincess Parisi: see.. the SC is going to maybe say we have to put Pat back in
[2008/04/06 14:20] You: yes, or maybe after all by-elections only .. Any other RA memebr comments before I answer Sonja?
[2008/04/06 14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[2008/04/06 14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry.
[2008/04/06 14:20] MT Lundquist: yes i wish to
[2008/04/06 14:20] You: I don’t know that Prin 🙂 I don’t even know who they will be 🙂 See item 8e
[2008/04/06 14:21] ThePrincess Parisi: well that is not the LRA bill
[2008/04/06 14:21] ThePrincess Parisi: it was before the exodus jamie
[2008/04/06 14:21] You: Prin? MT’s turn I think
[2008/04/06 14:21] ThePrincess Parisi: so they are not in conflict
[2008/04/06 14:21] MT Lundquist: my concern is very simple
[2008/04/06 14:21] You: Prin you’ve had your 2 mins I think? MT’s turn
[2008/04/06 14:22] MT Lundquist: and that is that the previous events showed that an LRA who didnt command the respect of the RA members was not effective potentially
[2008/04/06 14:22] MT Lundquist: however recent events have shown that and ‘elected ‘ LRA is
[2008/04/06 14:22] MT Lundquist: I therefore wish to support theprincess’ bill
[2008/04/06 14:22] MT Lundquist: end
[2008/04/06 14:23] ThePrincess Parisi: he wrote it not me
[2008/04/06 14:23] MT Lundquist: true
[2008/04/06 14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:23] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie your bill is not in lieu of ours
[2008/04/06 14:23] ThePrincess Parisi: its a completely diff matter then
[2008/04/06 14:24] Cindy Ecksol nods
[2008/04/06 14:24] You: correct – and I expect we will see both on the floor
[2008/04/06 14:24] You: and I’m thinking, next week
[2008/04/06 14:24] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/06 14:24] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/04/06 14:24] ThePrincess Parisi: well we need to add the chancellor piece to it
[2008/04/06 14:24] ThePrincess Parisi: they come hand in hand
[2008/04/06 14:24] Beathan Vale: OK — I have to run — no election committee meeting today
[2008/04/06 14:24] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:25] You: and thanks BV
[2008/04/06 14:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ok bye beathan
[2008/04/06 14:25] You: those who can, stay for open mic?
[2008/04/06 14:25] MT Lundquist: bye beathan
[2008/04/06 14:25] You: @Sonja: To answer, my concern is this: we need a proper, orderly, fair LRA succession .. because the rules are (rolling eyes) horridly unclear and probably utterly contradictory. Truly — I do not know who wrote ’em, and that’s good, because if they worked for me they’d be fired. It is my personal view that elections work … a presiding officer can preside better .. even be a bit of a bully at times (smile) .. if she has the SUPPORT of the entire RA, or at least respect, reasonably wihtin the bounds of our faction system. Sonja, whether that’s a temporary or permanent change is less of concern to me — but several have suggested that a faction-appointed LRA who can override lots of RA stuff is actually *important* to the current balance of rights. I don’t see it .. but I think we need to respect and give that view a fair hearing … so I am trying to be slower about permanent change.
[2008/04/06 14:25] You: anything else NEW to be said on this one?
[2008/04/06 14:25] ThePrincess Parisi: I have a big concern ……………..regarding the exec office.
[2008/04/06 14:25] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:25] ThePrincess Parisi: not about that exactly but what is going on now and i dont knwo what to do about it
[2008/04/06 14:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* to speak whenever possible
[2008/04/06 14:26] You: got it Gwyn
[2008/04/06 14:26] You: Prin – can we do that as 8f please?
[2008/04/06 14:26] Bjerkel Eerie raises hand
[2008/04/06 14:26] You: I am on 8d and think we may be done unless that’s what Gwnyn wishes to address?
[2008/04/06 14:26] ThePrincess Parisi: I hope sometime
[2008/04/06 14:26] You: Gwyn? Is this on LRA?
[2008/04/06 14:26] Sonja Strom: I have consulted the DPU membership, and the overall feeling is to be agains RA election of the LRA for reasons of the overall structural relationships in the CDS. That said, we are certainly willing to consider new possibilities.
[2008/04/06 14:27] You: 🙂 thanks, helps to know. Gwyn, you have anything on LRA selection?
[2008/04/06 14:27] You: (and Bjerkel after her)
[2008/04/06 14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, just a point
[2008/04/06 14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s a small one
[2008/04/06 14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I actually favour the idea of an LRA elected by the RA
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: very much so — people can quote me on having suggested it before
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However,
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we should also remember that the Chancellor is elected
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in the exact same way
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So — from my point of view it would be nice to address both issues
[2008/04/06 14:28] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed thats what i just said
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. so as not to look that the RA “electes everybody”
[2008/04/06 14:28] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you that’s all
[2008/04/06 14:28] You: Bjerkle? Is this on LRA?
[2008/04/06 14:29] ThePrincess Parisi whispers at jamie, BJ says what she wants hun
[2008/04/06 14:29] You: ?
[2008/04/06 14:29] You: Do we have a comment from Bjerkel? She raised her hand
[2008/04/06 14:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i think she crashed
[2008/04/06 14:29] You: ah
[2008/04/06 14:29] Bjerkel Eerie: I just think the RA and CDS needs to have a far ranging discussion on sustainablity and what that means in the context of a virtual world and a virtual community and the negative impacts of rapid growth on peoples sense of well being
[2008/04/06 14:30] You: ah ha 🙂 thx – and I *think* that may come up in the context of Greener SIms
[2008/04/06 14:30] You: in – hm – around a month
[2008/04/06 14:30] ThePrincess Parisi: it did……but bj.. this is not a real place so we dont make pollution
[2008/04/06 14:30] You: so I encourage you to think of *additional* stuff to discuss on that general topic – AND
[2008/04/06 14:30] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean you could
[2008/04/06 14:30] You: 🙂 we may have a candidate debate 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:31] You: So Bjerk, consider strafing your candidates then, smile
[2008/04/06 14:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean you can make pollution if you wanna but i dont think anyone will buy it
[2008/04/06 14:31] Bjerkel Eerie: the average avatar uses more electricity than the average rl brazilian
[2008/04/06 14:31] You: Gwyn, do you think you can hold your cnflicts issues together long enough to tell me if tere’s a strong likelihood of the SC (for appropriaet subset) doing a debate? Or is that PIO territory?
[2008/04/06 14:32] ThePrincess Parisi: against double prims then i am sure
[2008/04/06 14:32] Jamie Palisades grins wearily, head spinning, but grateful for Bj’s comments
[2008/04/06 14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks
[2008/04/06 14:32] MT Lundquist smiles
[2008/04/06 14:32] You: hm well – Bjerkely – again, thanks – and let’s get that Q into the election debates
[2008/04/06 14:32] You: sorry for the spelling
[2008/04/06 14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the SC should not do debates in any case)
[2008/04/06 14:33] You: OK – I will take it up with our esteemed executive then 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:33] You: thx
[2008/04/06 14:33] Bjerkel Eerie: with six thousand Islands, sl is resposible for a lot of global warming
[2008/04/06 14:33] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/06 14:33] You: BJerk, time limit for now
[2008/04/06 14:33] You: I think you will find many agree – just not a big agenda item for today
====
[2008/04/06 14:33] You: so, thanks – and next item
[2008/04/06 14:33] You: 8e
[2008/04/06 14:33] Jamie Palisades smiles wolfishly
[2008/04/06 14:34] You: Just a note. I expect to propose legislation next week
[2008/04/06 14:34] You: all comments welcome
[2008/04/06 14:34] ThePrincess Parisi looks down
[2008/04/06 14:34] You: I will get it into the “legislative discussion” boards by wednesday or thursday
[2008/04/06 14:34] ThePrincess Parisi: well we have talked at length jamie so you know how NuCare feels
[2008/04/06 14:35] You: and may just start a thread earlier – as I think public discussion will help
[2008/04/06 14:35] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks
[2008/04/06 14:35] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:35] You: any other quick coments on that? If not, I’m on 8f 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i am just happy you are taking your time to do it
====
[2008/04/06 14:35] You: 8f Public referenda – and the point is not to debate at this time – but rather –
[2008/04/06 14:36] You: for planning: We have bills lying arouind and several factions with views on this
[2008/04/06 14:36] You: so
[2008/04/06 14:36] You: is someone gonna do something? (smile)
[2008/04/06 14:36] ThePrincess Parisi: ok good
[2008/04/06 14:36] You: “No” is OK too, just trying to see it coming for planning purposes
[2008/04/06 14:36] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/06 14:36] ThePrincess Parisi: we should look at it
[2008/04/06 14:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “No” 😉
[2008/04/06 14:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/04/06 14:37] Sonja Strom: I definitely think we should implement a Referenda structure.
[2008/04/06 14:37] Sonja Strom: Initiatives would be good too, but these could be a public extension of the possibility to have Referenda questions.
[2008/04/06 14:38] You: hm – OK, well, then, fair warning – someone needs to kick this back into activity. I will ask several of the original proponents. And I expect robust debate 😀 And I would like us to hear from all sides. So THIS one we should schedule in advance, if possible, I think
[2008/04/06 14:38] ThePrincess Parisi: why dont you create a committee Jamie
[2008/04/06 14:38] Sonja Strom: Naturally 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:38] ThePrincess Parisi: MT is free now
[2008/04/06 14:38] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:38] ThePrincess Parisi: he did so well on commerce
[2008/04/06 14:39] Jamie Palisades would suggest a commission, but was underwhelemed with the quality of the New Citizens debate last year so is suspicious of that device.
[2008/04/06 14:39] Sonja Strom: Cindy, are you interested in this issue?
[2008/04/06 14:39] ThePrincess Parisi: baby and bathwater come to mind
[2008/04/06 14:39] Sonja Strom: (she and I have talked about it before in conversation…)
[2008/04/06 14:39] Cindy Ecksol: yes…
[2008/04/06 14:39] You: Hmm well here is an idea – it would make another good candidate debate question. I’d like us to get passed “high time” and “ruinous change” and talk about the *merits* somewhere (weak smile)
[2008/04/06 14:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie
[2008/04/06 14:40] You: *passed > past
[2008/04/06 14:40] Jon Seattle: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:40] You: I’m not personally as adverse as – some of my friends – to fundamental change to the CDS structure – but dang, kids, we ought to know what we are doing
[2008/04/06 14:40] Sonja Strom: In my view, it would be a perfect structure for the CDS to go forward with the issues around adding a 4th sim.
[2008/04/06 14:40] Cindy Ecksol thinks jamie has some amazing ideas 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:40] You: Sonja you posted on that I think
[2008/04/06 14:41] ThePrincess Parisi: yes she did
[2008/04/06 14:41] Sonja Strom: right
[2008/04/06 14:41] ThePrincess Parisi: but see that isn’t what I see referendums for
[2008/04/06 14:41] Justice Soothsayer: sorry, have to go. Thanks for a well-run meeting.
[2008/04/06 14:41] You: Here’s Sonja’s connection between the two FYI:
[2008/04/06 14:41] You: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1703#p10503
[2008/04/06 14:41] ThePrincess Parisi: its a given the fourth sim is done ……
[2008/04/06 14:41] You: Ah. Thanks, and thank you for coming.
[2008/04/06 14:41] MT Lundquist: and I think we need to sort referenda properly before we use it if at all
[2008/04/06 14:41] ThePrincess Parisi: but the details are too bulky for a ref.
[2008/04/06 14:41] ThePrincess Parisi: details
[2008/04/06 14:41] You: OK – so – let’s close that for the moment, but note that it’s dormant until officially awakened by a motion
[2008/04/06 14:42] ThePrincess Parisi: in my opinion
====
[2008/04/06 14:42] You: next item 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:42] You: 8g
[2008/04/06 14:42] Moon Adamant: I am sorry, mr LRA – may I make a question?
[2008/04/06 14:42] You: Prin – You had one more new one – something about the executive? And please assume all my gentle comments about personalities still apply.
[2008/04/06 14:42] ThePrincess Parisi: Yes jamie
[2008/04/06 14:42] ThePrincess Parisi: I do
[2008/04/06 14:42] You: hang on Moon – Prin’s turn please
[2008/04/06 14:42] ThePrincess Parisi: I have a problem with asking the exec office to get money
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: I have twice with things I paid ten times the reimbursement for.. asked for that
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: nothing
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: now the guided tour
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: I ask
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: I get nothing
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: I’m not paying it out of my pocket again
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: what is the process
[2008/04/06 14:43] You: This, for clarity, is about getting a personal reimbursement for buying something for CDS that the government asked for?
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: if this happens to me I assume it hapens for eveyone else
[2008/04/06 14:43] You: Prin? Did I restate it correctly?
[2008/04/06 14:43] ThePrincess Parisi: yes .. it was budgeted 6k
[2008/04/06 14:43] You: OK
[2008/04/06 14:43] You: then I will inquire
[2008/04/06 14:44] You: and report back to you
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: and I was given the go ahead here
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: and as well events I spent my own 10 k
[2008/04/06 14:44] You: and If I get no answer, I will inform you of my next steps 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: was supposed to get a measly 900l
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: and didn’t even get that
[2008/04/06 14:44] You: and thank you for your own personal acts to keep us moving forward at your own expense
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: well I dont mind .. but if it happens to me, it happens to everyone I suppose
[2008/04/06 14:44] You: Moon? you had something?
[2008/04/06 14:44] You: I think, with my promise to get an answer, that’s all on that one, hm?
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: and thats not good
[2008/04/06 14:44] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/06 14:45] Moon Adamant: just asking at what time are you thinking to adjourn?
[2008/04/06 14:45] ThePrincess Parisi: soon
[2008/04/06 14:45] You: we’re almost there 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:45] Moon Adamant: thank you
[2008/04/06 14:45] You: OK
====
[2008/04/06 14:45] You: thank you all for a patient meeting – here’s what we have left
[2008/04/06 14:45] You: thank you all for a patient meeting – here’s what we have left
[2008/04/06 14:45] You: 10 open discussion
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: I’d like to see if anyone has something to say today, before we adjourn, if we may
[2008/04/06 14:46] ThePrincess Parisi: I sort of do
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: any others?
[2008/04/06 14:46] ThePrincess Parisi: If no one else does
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: let’s get the list
[2008/04/06 14:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[2008/04/06 14:46] ThePrincess Parisi: I’ll go last
[2008/04/06 14:46] Cup of fresh ground coffee whispers: Now THAT I needed!
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: OK, GL and TPP
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: no one else?
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:46] You: Go Gwyn pls
[2008/04/06 14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, there was an invitation to the CDS
[2008/04/06 14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to be present at the Second Life Fifth Birthday commemorations
[2008/04/06 14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also,
[2008/04/06 14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the Dreams Community Fair.
[2008/04/06 14:47] ThePrincess Parisi: wow!
[2008/04/06 14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve redirected those requests to the Chancellor and PIO
[2008/04/06 14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the Dreams Fair is hapening sooner; SL5B is in June I believe)
[2008/04/06 14:48] You: That’s pretty cool. Thanks for letting us know. It sounds like Arria’s already addressing the Dreams fair, as she reported.
[2008/04/06 14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I wanted to ask if the RA will need to set apart a budget for this
[2008/04/06 14:48] ThePrincess Parisi: how many ppl can go
[2008/04/06 14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (good)
[2008/04/06 14:48] You: SL4B was a great booth-type show-off opportunity
[2008/04/06 14:48] Sonja Strom: When is it?
[2008/04/06 14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: SL5B is 20-23 June
[2008/04/06 14:48] You: We should get a bunch of volunteers going, with Arria’s blessing, on what we’d want to highlight for SL5B maybe
[2008/04/06 14:48] ThePrincess Parisi: we need that and Cindy you need to get involved with the info piece please
[2008/04/06 14:48] You: thanks Gwyn – that’s all for now?
[2008/04/06 14:48] ThePrincess Parisi: a committee maybe or something
[2008/04/06 14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed, Princess, I wondered about that
[2008/04/06 14:49] ThePrincess Parisi: this is very important we need it coordinated well
[2008/04/06 14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, Jamie, that’s all
[2008/04/06 14:49] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:49] You: OK
[2008/04/06 14:49] ThePrincess Parisi: personally i dont think the PIO office can handle it
[2008/04/06 14:49] ThePrincess Parisi: alone
[2008/04/06 14:49] You: I will ask Alexi to report back to us on that
[2008/04/06 14:49] Moon Adamant: why not?
[2008/04/06 14:49] You: Prin – you had something? And then we are done for the day
[2008/04/06 14:49] You: I advise against debates about the PIO just now 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:49] Moon Adamant: /m e shuts up
[2008/04/06 14:49] Cindy Ecksol: lol, prin! I am part of the PIO office 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:50] ThePrincess Parisi: yes and I said you need to get on the info with them
[2008/04/06 14:50] ThePrincess Parisi: and three ppl cant do this job alone
[2008/04/06 14:50] ThePrincess Parisi: its not incompetence I am saying, its too much wrok thats all
[2008/04/06 14:50] ThePrincess Parisi: a call out for volunteers
[2008/04/06 14:50] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:50] You: Prin is this your “new item”, or are we still on Gwyn’s?
[2008/04/06 14:51] ThePrincess Parisi: ok well what I wanted to say was not as important as Gwyns
[2008/04/06 14:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and these sorts of things are important to our rep in the community that’s all
[2008/04/06 14:51] ThePrincess Parisi: lets do it right
[2008/04/06 14:51] ThePrincess Parisi: lets do it righ t thats all… and get more than the PIO involved
[2008/04/06 14:51] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/04/06 14:52] Jamie Palisades looks querulously at the nice colleague who is keeping us from adjoruning and wonders .. anything else that is more important than his Sunday afternoon Tequila-soaked immolation
[2008/04/06 14:52] You: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:52] You: OK then
[2008/04/06 14:52] ThePrincess Parisi: mp
[2008/04/06 14:52] Sonja Strom: It seems to me that this would fall within the office of the Chancellor, but maybe that makes no difference…
[2008/04/06 14:52] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/04/06 14:52] ThePrincess Parisi: its too big to leave there in my opinion
[2008/04/06 14:52] ThePrincess Parisi: its a community wide issue
[2008/04/06 14:52] ThePrincess Parisi: and affair
[2008/04/06 14:53] You: Sonja that’s a fair question for us to take up, and I suggest that it start with me asking the Chancellor and PIO 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:53] ThePrincess Parisi: affair
[2008/04/06 14:53] ThePrincess Parisi: and i’m tired
[2008/04/06 14:53] Sonja Strom: Thank you Jamie!
[2008/04/06 14:53] You: Do any RA members object to us adjourning now?
[2008/04/06 14:53] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/04/06 14:53] Sonja Strom: no
[2008/04/06 14:53] You: (Note next meeting changes to 9 am SLT Saturday)
[2008/04/06 14:53] You: bless you
[2008/04/06 14:53] You: MT wants to go all night – but he’s an iron man ..
[2008/04/06 14:53] ThePrincess Parisi: mine
[2008/04/06 14:53] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/04/06 14:54] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:54] You: OK, we are adjourned, and thank you very much all – good job
[2008/04/06 14:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew
[2008/04/06 14:54] Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody for being here!
[2008/04/06 14:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you all 🙂
[2008/04/06 14:55] You: Moon, I owe you a chat if you want it, late as it is GMT
by theprincessparisi on Wed Feb 20, 2008 4:23 am
———————————————
In the process of Mizou researching and writing the history for The CDS Guided Tour she said she envisions a physical space as well in NFS where the history of CDS can be displayed. Along with this it would be appropriate to initiate a sort of CDS Hall of Fame……a place where the individuals who have given so much of themselves can be honored and their accomplishments celebrated. This “hall of fame” for lack of a better tern, which i hope someone suggests. Could be initiated with the grand opening of the guided tour. And perhaps the three initial members could be decided by the RA or SC or both. Subsequently, the chancellor would appoint a new member and his/her rationale to the Hall of Fame at the end of the term.
It would be nice to formalize the transistion of one chancellor to another .
2. A space for a CDS Hall of Gratitude.
3. That the initial members are selected by the RA and SC
4. That the process for selecting new members is a duty of the outgoing chancelor and
5. A regular transition event of one chancellor to another formally inducts the new “hall of honor” member.RA Meeting: April 12, 2008
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & locations
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate? (None.)
2. Report from Chancellor (15 mins.: 09h15-09h30)
3. Commerce Commission recommendations (20 mins.: 09h30-09h50)
— /viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
4. LRA Bill(s) (15 mins.: 09h50-10h05)
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
5. Private Development Proposal (15 mins.: 10h05-10h20)
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1721
6. Public Referenda (15 mins.: 10h20-10h35)
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1715#p10506
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1667
7. Conflict of Interest, etc. (15 mins.: 10h35-10h50)
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1772
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1773
8. Other?
9. Open Discussion (10 mins.: 10h50-11h00)
Adjournment: 11h00
Held in Neufreistadt Rathaus
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
Transcript: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1794
===
[09:22] Called to order.
[09:22] 1a – Call for assent to recording
[09:23] 1b – Agenda reviewed and modified.
[09:26] 1c – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[09:27] 1d – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[09:28] 1e – Future RA meeting schedule.
— Staying with 09h00 SLT on Saturday, for 19 and 26 April
[09:37] 1f – Consent agenda. No items.
[09:39] 2 – Chancellor report.
— Set recurring time for this report: last meeting of each month, starting 26 April
— Discussed consulates/relations with other sims/micronations [09:41]
— Webportal plans, funding request [09:56]
[10:10] 3 – Commerce Commission bill(s).
Discussion only. Consensus to hold this item until next meeting (19 April), when sponsor (MT Lundquist) is present
[10:19] 4 – LRA bill(s)
Discussion only. Consensus to hold this item until next meeting (19 April)
[10:21] 5 – Private Development bill
Discussion only. Consensus to hold this item until 26 April, when sponsor (B Vale) is present; changes expected based on collaboration with Guild postings
[10:30] 6 – Public Referenda bill.
Discussion only. Consensus to hold this item until next meeting (19 April).
[10:31] 7- Conflict of interest bill(s)
— Citizen bill from PMRobert Walpole discussed [10:34]
— Compound proposal, and J Palisades alternative, to be reintroduced as several distinct bills so each can be evaluated separately
[11:03] {8} – Open discussion
[11:06] Adjourned.
Transcript of 12 April 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====
[2008/04/12 8:59] Teleport completed from
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Neufreistadt/196/185/179
[2008/04/12 9:00] PMRobert Walpole gave you Non-Cumulation of Mandates Act (2. Draft) – PMRobert Walpole.
[2008/04/12 9:04] Sonja Strom: hi Jamie 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:04] Sonja Strom: I thought so.
[2008/04/12 9:07] Sonja Strom: Hi Dnate! 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:07] Dnate Mars: hi
[2008/04/12 9:07] Sonja Strom: Looks like a small group so far.
[2008/04/12 9:08] You: Good morning, I’m in IM with some of the others, seeing if we are going to get a quorum 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:08] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/04/12 9:08] Sonja Strom: Will you have a notecard-giver?
[2008/04/12 9:09] Cup of fresh ground coffee whispers: Now THAT I needed!
[2008/04/12 9:11] You: well I am asking Prin to join us – I do not see Beathan on line
[2008/04/12 9:11] Sonja Strom: hmm
[2008/04/12 9:12] You: And I know that MT’s offline – you’ll recall that he said he would be absent this week due to travel
[2008/04/12 9:12] Sonja Strom: Hi Robert!
[2008/04/12 9:12] PMRobert Walpole: Cheers all
[2008/04/12 9:12] PMRobert Walpole: Another DPU meeting? 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:12] Sonja Strom: I don’t know why, but I can’t get my IM window to work now…
[2008/04/12 9:13] You: Apparently. You’re the gentleman who sent that citizen bill in.
[2008/04/12 9:13] Sonja Strom: can you see my typing?
[2008/04/12 9:13] You: Are you DPU also, in that avatar Mr Walpole?
[2008/04/12 9:13] You: yes Sonja I can
[2008/04/12 9:14] PMRobert Walpole: Indeed. Thank you for your confirmation. Did you also get my Second draft ?
[2008/04/12 9:14] You: also, Sonja my IM *seems* to work – I have been conversing
[2008/04/12 9:14] You: Just this morning
[2008/04/12 9:14] PMRobert Walpole: Ah thank you.
[2008/04/12 9:15] You: Good morning Prin, and thank you for coming
[2008/04/12 9:15] You: I see we have quorum technically, though a small one it is being 3 out of 5 seated –
[2008/04/12 9:15] PMRobert Walpole: Yes I am a DPU member
[2008/04/12 9:15] You: 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:15] You: A moment while I check again on the others I’d thought we would see – Beathan & Alexicon
[2008/04/12 9:16] Sonja Strom: me too.
[2008/04/12 9:16] Sonja Strom: Your email was clear.
[2008/04/12 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: where did dnate go
[2008/04/12 9:18] Sonja Strom: Don’t know.
[2008/04/12 9:18] You: well then
[2008/04/12 9:18] You: Here’s my suggestion
[2008/04/12 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: well i thought it was today at noon
[2008/04/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: until last night
[2008/04/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan might too
[2008/04/12 9:19] Sonja Strom: today at noon?
[2008/04/12 9:19] You: We are quorate under our own rules, …
[2008/04/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: fine
[2008/04/12 9:19] You: oops – listening to Prin first
[2008/04/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: you better
[2008/04/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: about what
[2008/04/12 9:20] You: hmm. It was my impression that we announced and discussed the time change last week with all RA members present.
[2008/04/12 9:20] Sonja Strom: mine too.
[2008/04/12 9:20] You: Let me check that – it would be unfair to proceed now, if that was not so.
[2008/04/12 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: no you did i just didnt read it
[2008/04/12 9:20] Sonja Strom: sure
[2008/04/12 9:20] You: ah good then – thx – saves me the time
[2008/04/12 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: i just thought it was the same time for suome reason
[2008/04/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: my fault
[2008/04/12 9:21] You: then let’s proceed with quorum present, skipping items where there’s either a necessary protagnoist, or some other eason to wait
[2008/04/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: then lets go on
[2008/04/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: if we have quaroum
[2008/04/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah………
[2008/04/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: nope but i want it clear that alexicon is shirking again
[2008/04/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: im really upset with the chancleoors office jamie
[2008/04/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: are we recorded yet?
[2008/04/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: i have a question to you about alexicon, jamie
—-
[2008/04/12 9:22] You: We’re called to order then – and yes (small smile) we took the precaution to adopt a rule clarifying quorum, which has not been challenged, and under which we are in fact quorate with 3 of the 5 seated members present
[2008/04/12 9:22] You: yes we’re in session. A Q before we begin, Prin?
[2008/04/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: did you talk to him about why no one inclueding me……..is getting reimbursed and / or paid for budget items approved.. and where is he on the budget at all
[2008/04/12 9:22] You: 1a
[2008/04/12 9:23] You: would all present please assent to recording. I so assent.
[2008/04/12 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: he was to get back to us on the project with teh website probposal
[2008/04/12 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/04/12 9:23] Sonja Strom: I assent.
[2008/04/12 9:23] PMRobert Walpole: aye
[2008/04/12 9:23] You: prin I have a report on that, which will come up on the agenda 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/12 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: wtf is going on with him and its gotta be fixed.. and what did he say
—-
[2008/04/12 9:23] You: 1b
[2008/04/12 9:23] You: approve agenda 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/12 9:24] You: it is posted here:
[2008/04/12 9:24] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1774
[2008/04/12 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i read it
[2008/04/12 9:24] You: I will suggest …
[2008/04/12 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: ok, and MT said I can either talk about commerce for him or wait
[2008/04/12 9:24] You: that we skip the Chancellor report if Alexi is not present – though I did confirm it with him earlier this week
[2008/04/12 9:24] You: .. and also, there may be some items where we wish to wait
[2008/04/12 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we should at least discuss the controversial isse with the commerce commission in MTs absesence
[2008/04/12 9:25] You: let’s see when we get to them
[2008/04/12 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/12 9:25] You: let me also note we have a rule (as of last month) permitting citizens to proposed bills …
[2008/04/12 9:25] You: … and we have one from Mr Walpole, who’s present, and which appears later …
[2008/04/12 9:26] You: … on the agenda (and I think he will have a suggested update for us then)
[2008/04/12 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: let me se e if i can get any citizens here
[2008/04/12 9:26] PMRobert Walpole: Thank you for putting it on the agenda sir
[2008/04/12 9:26] You: any proposed changes to the agenda for now?
[2008/04/12 9:26] You: hearing none, let’s take it as approved, and adjust on the fly, if needed
—-
[2008/04/12 9:26] You: 1c
[2008/04/12 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: its fine with me
[2008/04/12 9:27] You: Routine announcement: if anyone wishes to speak on an agenda item they should so indicate – and I will assume Mr Walpole’s on the list for his proposal
[2008/04/12 9:27] Sonja Strom: I didn’t look through all of your links — is the agenda the same as what you sent out earlier?
[2008/04/12 9:27] You: thx Prin
[2008/04/12 9:27] You: yes
[2008/04/12 9:27] PMRobert Walpole: Indeed
[2008/04/12 9:27] You: yes Sonja, it’s consistent with the e-mail on – hm – Wed or Thur
[2008/04/12 9:27] Sonja Strom: ok
—-
[2008/04/12 9:27] You: 1d then
[2008/04/12 9:28] You: Routine request: if anyone sees flaws in the posted transcripts or summaries, please let me know – or just make a corrective posting
[2008/04/12 9:28] You: but if you do the latter, please let me know, so I see it
—-
[2008/04/12 9:28] You: 1e
[2008/04/12 9:28] You: future RA meetings
[2008/04/12 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/12 9:29] You: 😛 i am not feeling good about our results today …
[2008/04/12 9:29] Sonja Strom: right…
[2008/04/12 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: MT would normally be here
[2008/04/12 9:29] You: hm
[2008/04/12 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: and this time is good for him but this week he had a atypical rl conflict
[2008/04/12 9:29] You: should we stay with this same slot next week, and see?
[2008/04/12 9:29] Sonja Strom: I have a question about that.
[2008/04/12 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: id ask beathan
[2008/04/12 9:30] You: sonja?
[2008/04/12 9:30] Sonja Strom: If we did want to have referendum questions on the April ballot, would they still be able to make it in time if the first time we debate them is next week?
[2008/04/12 9:30] You: good Q
[2008/04/12 9:31] You: I *think* Arria is plannig a debate – hm – let me check calendar
[2008/04/12 9:31] Sonja Strom: Jon is in-world, I will IM him.
[2008/04/12 9:31] You: next weekend
[2008/04/12 9:32] You: Sonja, it seems to me obvious that any referendum must be on the ballot by the time the ballot opens 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:32] You: now
[2008/04/12 9:32] You: the SC owns the ballot process
[2008/04/12 9:32] You: and has seemed in the past to me to be somewhat hostile to referenda …
[2008/04/12 9:33] You: I could be wrong, smile, shrug
[2008/04/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: the questions you handed out sonja.. that would be binding and over turn what the RA voted on already
[2008/04/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i can tell you nuCARE wont support that
[2008/04/12 9:33] You: but I’d say we need to get it passed soon, if you want to hand it to them in time for them to deliberate and, maybe, approve it. I point out to you that any constitutional amendment is thought by some of our more consevartive factions to require a minimum of 5 votes
[2008/04/12 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: all factions have stated in manifestos that they want a new sim.. and we voted on a theme that is conssitent with the master paln
[2008/04/12 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i see no point in making it go through a vote and all unless its to stall
[2008/04/12 9:34] You: hm
[2008/04/12 9:34] You: let’s focus on next RA meeting for the moment
[2008/04/12 9:34] Sonja Strom: I just sent Jon an IM to ask him that question.
[2008/04/12 9:35] You: sonja, do your plans to introduce bills give us ny guidance on when you’d want us to meet next?
[2008/04/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: well we arent suppoting it in its form right now
[2008/04/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: so if you need us its not a go ….how many votes do you need
[2008/04/12 9:35] You: OK – ahem 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:35] You: let’s do that in its ownut agenda item
[2008/04/12 9:36] You: for now
[2008/04/12 9:36] Sonja Strom: He said if we were to decide next week to put them on the April ballot, that he could still include them.
[2008/04/12 9:36] You: may I assume we are OK to set the next RA meetign one week from today, same time?
[2008/04/12 9:36] Sonja Strom: So I am OK with talking about this more next week.
[2008/04/12 9:36] You: at 9 am SLT next Saturday?
[2008/04/12 9:36] Sonja Strom: sure
[2008/04/12 9:36] You: I will take that as agreed and move on then
—-
[2008/04/12 9:37] You: 1f
[2008/04/12 9:37] You: consent items – I have none – anyone?
[2008/04/12 9:37] Sonja Strom: Sorry, what is a consent item?
[2008/04/12 9:38] Sonja Strom: Hi Alexicon!
[2008/04/12 9:38] Sonja Strom: Welcome
[2008/04/12 9:38] Alexicon Kurka: Hi all
[2008/04/12 9:38] You: under our rules Sonja, we set aside time for any quick noncontroversial items
[2008/04/12 9:38] You: 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:38] You: Hi Alexi – a moment please
[2008/04/12 9:38] Sonja Strom: ok, no I don’t have any.
[2008/04/12 9:38] You: Sonja, we have none this week
[2008/04/12 9:38] You: 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:39] You: Excellent timing – Alexi please assent on the record to being recorded in our transcript
[2008/04/12 9:39] Alexicon Kurka: do I have to click on an object?
[2008/04/12 9:39] You: next item
—-
[2008/04/12 9:39] You: 2
[2008/04/12 9:39] You: no just say I agree 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:39] Alexicon Kurka: I agree
[2008/04/12 9:40] You: And it’s time for the Chancellor’s Report 🙂 note this is set by our rules as a regular item – once a month I think?
[2008/04/12 9:40] Alexicon Kurka: OK is it my time now?
[2008/04/12 9:40] You: yes
[2008/04/12 9:41] Alexicon Kurka: I suggest to keep the chancellor’s hours for the last weekend of each month
[2008/04/12 9:41] Alexicon Kurka: but this time I messed my chance so we can do it today
[2008/04/12 9:41] You: OK, starting in 2 weeks, then?
[2008/04/12 9:41] Alexicon Kurka: I have two issues I want to talk with you about
[2008/04/12 9:42] Alexicon Kurka: 1.- Consulates
[2008/04/12 9:42] Alexicon Kurka: I have had contacts with Rome and Caledon about it
[2008/04/12 9:42] Alexicon Kurka: we can start with these two locations soon if we wish to
[2008/04/12 9:43] Alexicon Kurka: The idea is that we will rent a commercial area and put there our communication items
[2008/04/12 9:44] Alexicon Kurka: Rome: as they do it on CNB allready it is more logical to begin there, althoug there is not much similarity exept the theme of the sim
[2008/04/12 9:44] Alexicon Kurka: Caledon: this is a more interesting sim group for CDS
[2008/04/12 9:44] Alexicon Kurka: but
[2008/04/12 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: Roma or Rome?
[2008/04/12 9:44] You: hsould we hold questions for the end of your talk, or ask you questions now?
[2008/04/12 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: Roman Empire.. is rome.. mikeD streeter?
[2008/04/12 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: or roma.. of torin
[2008/04/12 9:44] Alexicon Kurka: we still have the chance that they will drawn us instead og us geting some of their citizens
[2008/04/12 9:45] Alexicon Kurka: Roma, torin
[2008/04/12 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i asked him this six months ago
[2008/04/12 9:45] Alexicon Kurka: so I need the ideas and OK of the RA to take final steps
[2008/04/12 9:45] You: hm – OK, Alexi seems ready for questions about consulates
[2008/04/12 9:45] You: I have two
[2008/04/12 9:45] You: anyone else?
[2008/04/12 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: this is a done deal and its already beendone
[2008/04/12 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: what is your concern?
[2008/04/12 9:45] You: eh?
[2008/04/12 9:46] You: what is a done deal, and who says so? `Sorry, thought we were getting report from the executive?
[2008/04/12 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: this is something we have already done, fems land for example has this
[2008/04/12 9:46] Alexicon Kurka: it is mostly for Caledon, I worry about the effect on us
[2008/04/12 9:46] You: *sigh*
[2008/04/12 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: of putting a info box there and them reciprocating?
[2008/04/12 9:47] Alexicon Kurka: they will do it here as well, unless we don’t let them to
[2008/04/12 9:47] You: ok, let me ask Alexi a few questions please, for clarity
[2008/04/12 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: that is someting that we have already done.. if you were wroried about that then putting Andalus’s events in the forum would be a thing that is more worrisome than caledon
[2008/04/12 9:47] You: 1. Does this activity as YOU see it Alexicon require RA approval, or legislation, or budget change?
[2008/04/12 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: andalus is also a democracy
[2008/04/12 9:47] Alexicon Kurka: we are talking about more permanent steps here tP
[2008/04/12 9:47] You: Prin, please wait
[2008/04/12 9:48] Alexicon Kurka: It requires some budget
[2008/04/12 9:48] Alexicon Kurka: so I need your approval
[2008/04/12 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi holds up her hand
[2008/04/12 9:48] Alexicon Kurka: no legislation
[2008/04/12 9:48] You: OK – so when you are ready, you will bring us a budget, yet?
[2008/04/12 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: we are talking about 2500 per month
[2008/04/12 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: how much budget and for what.. 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:49] You: I will hold my second Q until ThePrincess has hers. Prin?
[2008/04/12 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: omg for what?
[2008/04/12 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: for two locations
[2008/04/12 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: rent of 250 per week per location
[2008/04/12 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: what is that for rental.. did you find out that torin will let you rent …………..for that
[2008/04/12 9:49] You: so we would *rent* space, just like people rent ithere, yes?
[2008/04/12 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: yes 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: torin said yes?
[2008/04/12 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[2008/04/12 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: and what exactly do you put in the space in roma
[2008/04/12 9:50] Alexicon Kurka: the only problem with ROme is that if we want a nice place we have to wait
[2008/04/12 9:50] You: any other questions (noting we still do not have a detailed proposal to approve), Prin?
[2008/04/12 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: you will wait forever
[2008/04/12 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: and in caledon………..
[2008/04/12 9:50] Sonja Strom: I have one.
[2008/04/12 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: i think there are plenty of places that we can set out boxes ith info and LM givers that are free
[2008/04/12 9:50] You: Prin, Alexi’s time is 2/3rds up, let’s let others ask. Sonja?
[2008/04/12 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: for ppl who already have stalls, alexicon,you have a stall in roma.. canyou please put one prim for our community
[2008/04/12 9:51] Alexicon Kurka: where do you have a place Sonja?
[2008/04/12 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i will put one in Rome
[2008/04/12 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and you can put them in featherman and novatron
[2008/04/12 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i think the money is unnecessary ..
[2008/04/12 9:51] Sonja Strom: Have we/you talked with them about exchanging consulates? I mean, could we provide them space here in exchange for our space there?
[2008/04/12 9:51] Alexicon Kurka: So we may use your own plots tP and Sonja?
[2008/04/12 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: can we have one prim in roma?
[2008/04/12 9:52] Sonja Strom: Possibly.
[2008/04/12 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: mine.. yes
[2008/04/12 9:52] Sonja Strom: But we could also give them space in the new development.
[2008/04/12 9:52] You: This is not a legislative discussion yet, just pre-planning 🙂 When Alexicon has a *proposal* and budget he will bring it back here. Alexi has 4 minutes left and another topic?
[2008/04/12 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: alexicon can you put a box and LM giver in your place in Roma
[2008/04/12 9:52] Sonja Strom: We are working on the “Altenburg” area of Neufreistadt right now.
[2008/04/12 9:52] Sonja Strom: Also we are working on a 4th sim.
[2008/04/12 9:53] Alexicon Kurka: I dont have any prims left thePrinces I already have an LM giver
[2008/04/12 9:53] You: “embassy row” Sonja? 🙂
[2008/04/12 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: one prim?
[2008/04/12 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: lmao
[2008/04/12 9:53] Alexicon Kurka: Caledon was willing to speak about exchange, Torin not
[2008/04/12 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: take something out alexicon
[2008/04/12 9:53] You: Alexi, if you had a second topic, probably best to mention it. 3 minutes left
[2008/04/12 9:53] Sonja Strom: Maybe ~ ~
[2008/04/12 9:53] Alexicon Kurka: so my proposal for a rent budget is approved or not?
[2008/04/12 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: make it
[2008/04/12 9:54] Sonja Strom: If it is really needed, I could offer some of my land – especially if it were intended to be temporary until a more permanent place would be found.
[2008/04/12 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: its nto apporoved…
[2008/04/12 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: i vote no
[2008/04/12 9:54] Alexicon Kurka: I mentioned an estimated 2500 per month for consulates renting
[2008/04/12 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i vote no
[2008/04/12 9:54] You: RA members, we are out of time for Alexi’s report, and had planned to move on to CommerceCommission (next item) at 9:30, 25 minutes ago. Do you wish to extend this item now, or not?
[2008/04/12 9:55] Sonja Strom: I do.
[2008/04/12 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: next item for alexicon?
[2008/04/12 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/12 9:55] You: As do I, for 5 minutes.
[2008/04/12 9:55] Alexicon Kurka: so only thePrincess votes today?
[2008/04/12 9:55] Alexicon Kurka: lol
[2008/04/12 9:55] Sonja Strom: Has a motion been made?
[2008/04/12 9:55] Alexicon Kurka: Please help me with the procedure Jammie
[2008/04/12 9:56] You: Yes. We’d need a motion. Alexi, I suspect we don’t have enough info to approve $L2500 right now; can you post more, so we can read it for next week?
[2008/04/12 9:56] Alexicon Kurka: OK
[2008/04/12 9:56] You: or do yo have a reason why we need to vote this wek?
[2008/04/12 9:56] Alexicon Kurka: next is the webportal
[2008/04/12 9:56] You: OK, thx
[2008/04/12 9:56] You: 4 minutes
[2008/04/12 9:57] Alexicon Kurka: we are now close to a point of starting to build it
[2008/04/12 9:57] Sonja Strom: I really do want to support this effort.
[2008/04/12 9:57] Sonja Strom: However, it would be better if we found a way to avoid this expense.
[2008/04/12 9:57] Alexicon Kurka: design and content structuring is very far now
[2008/04/12 9:57] Sonja Strom: YAY!
[2008/04/12 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: where is the proposal? and budget
[2008/04/12 9:59] Alexicon Kurka: my first idea involved a hosting of 100$us per month and a website building of around the 4000$US which I would donate to the CDS. My last idea is a hosting of $10US per month and a website of $1500 which I will still donate to the CDS
[2008/04/12 9:59] You: I think Alexi is still typing and reporting
[2008/04/12 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: we need details of why and what
[2008/04/12 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: MT said he would help you with a proper proposal many weeks ago
[2008/04/12 9:59] Sonja Strom: yes, it looks like he is having an “SL experience”
[2008/04/12 10:00] You: Alexicon, will we receive a specific budget and report from you, or are you asking for some approval now?
[2008/04/12 10:00] Alexicon Kurka: 1.- nobody was happy about me beeing ready to make such a big donation, 2.- my RL has become too busy to be able to support such a time investment for myself
[2008/04/12 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: a donation? of what? your time so you can be paid, that is not a donation
[2008/04/12 10:01] Alexicon Kurka: I do a lot of corporate accounts RL, that is my living thePrincess
[2008/04/12 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: donation means you give something for nothing in return
[2008/04/12 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: well then you want to work for cds thats differnt
[2008/04/12 10:01] You: Prin. Wait until he;s done please
[2008/04/12 10:01] Alexicon Kurka: if I work for CDS I cannot work for other projects
[2008/04/12 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: so you want us to pay you ?
[2008/04/12 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie i am clarifying
[2008/04/12 10:02] Alexicon Kurka: To avoid this discussion I propose to donate the site
[2008/04/12 10:02] You: Ultimately that’s what I want to know too 🙂 is there a budget request, or will you come back to us with one?
[2008/04/12 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: we need a proper proposal the way we asked for this…….many weeks ago
[2008/04/12 10:02] You: there will still be a hosting fee, right?
[2008/04/12 10:02] Alexicon Kurka: so no budget request
[2008/04/12 10:02] Alexicon Kurka: I do not wish to host the website myself
[2008/04/12 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: he already did this and we asked for a proposal
[2008/04/12 10:02] Alexicon Kurka: so there will be a regular cheap account in USA
[2008/04/12 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: you have not given us a proposal alexicon
[2008/04/12 10:03] You: alexi, thissounds like a report, but not a requestfro action – which is fine. Do YOU think that RA needs to take any action to support the webportal?
[2008/04/12 10:04] Alexicon Kurka: So to summurise, I need an approval for opening a Typo3 hosting account at siteground
[2008/04/12 10:04] You: ah
[2008/04/12 10:04] Alexicon Kurka: (the rest was for your information)
[2008/04/12 10:04] You: at what cost? and has Sudane offered an opinion?
[2008/04/12 10:05] Alexicon Kurka: Sudane was OK already with the 100$US proposition
[2008/04/12 10:05] Alexicon Kurka: so she has no problems with the 10$ one
[2008/04/12 10:05] Alexicon Kurka: it was the RA that found the budget too high
[2008/04/12 10:05] You: Ok, then I;d say, RA can and should appove the $10US / mnth expense for now, as relatively minimal
[2008/04/12 10:05] Alexicon Kurka: so I come now with a lower proposition
[2008/04/12 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need a rwitten proposal and have the ppl who know this area better to look at it
[2008/04/12 10:05] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[2008/04/12 10:06] You: if we learnin a few months that it’s a problem, we can make alternate plans 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:06] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[2008/04/12 10:06] You: Prin, I hear you, but my own inclination would be to approve it
[2008/04/12 10:06] You: SOnja?
[2008/04/12 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: not til i know why no one else gets money that is approved
[2008/04/12 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: i am personally owed by / through the chancellor more than that
[2008/04/12 10:06] You: (it’s Alexi’s job to make sure we have good arrangements, not outs, an dthe cost/risk seems too low for us to fret)
[2008/04/12 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: im not approving one dime fo rhim til i know what its going on
[2008/04/12 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: i vote no
[2008/04/12 10:07] You: Sonja, we will do nothing at this meeting unless you want to move to approve the expense for now
[2008/04/12 10:07] You: 🙂 too early to vote
[2008/04/12 10:07] You: no motion
[2008/04/12 10:08] Sonja Strom: no motion
[2008/04/12 10:08] You: OK then – it needs to wait a week
[2008/04/12 10:08] You: and Alexi, if you could post more info on this I thikn it will help
[2008/04/12 10:09] You: and also
[2008/04/12 10:09] Alexicon Kurka: In two weeks we have the next chancellors meeting
[2008/04/12 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: how about the rest of the budget?
[2008/04/12 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: hi fem
[2008/04/12 10:09] You: 🙂 working on that too
[2008/04/12 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: say i assent to be recorded
[2008/04/12 10:09] Alexicon Kurka: there are no changes in the rest of the budget, and Sudane gives monthly reports now
[2008/04/12 10:09] Feminist Expedition: hi prin 🙂 hello all 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:09] You: Prin, the rules & process around the budget are – underwhelming
[2008/04/12 10:09] PMRobert Walpole: Hello
[2008/04/12 10:09] You: I am chatting with Sudane about our maybe doing a little more formally in RA about that
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: OK
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: Alexi, done for now?
[2008/04/12 10:10] Alexicon Kurka: yes thank you
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: thank you – and next exec report in 2 weeks
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: next item
—-
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: 3
[2008/04/12 10:10] Alexicon Kurka: you will excuse me for now
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: would Femi please assent to being recorded
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: for our transcript
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: (and welcome)
[2008/04/12 10:10] Feminist Expedition: yup, that’s fine
[2008/04/12 10:10] Feminist Expedition: thx 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:10] You: 3 is commerce comission
[2008/04/12 10:11] You: Prin? You ready on this, without MT the author?
[2008/04/12 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: well MT posted the results on the forum
[2008/04/12 10:11] You: (see URI listed in today’s agenda)
[2008/04/12 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: and the one item that is controversial is the ultimate decision after other steps .. to take land away that is commerical and not being used as such
[2008/04/12 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i propose that we just discuss that and let MT do the report proper next week
[2008/04/12 10:12] You: Seems wise
[2008/04/12 10:12] You: I do have a Q about that myself
[2008/04/12 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i posted on my opnion today
[2008/04/12 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: and it is
[2008/04/12 10:13] You: Did anyone consider a subset approach (no confiscation of current owners, but a covenant change for the parcels next time they change hands)?
[2008/04/12 10:13] You: *sunset
[2008/04/12 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: the covenent says no w its commerical
[2008/04/12 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: and i think personally thats enough
[2008/04/12 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: if its clear in teh covenent that its commerical land, then its commerical land, and it is
[2008/04/12 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i think personally we need to try to sort out why its not working that way now…if someone wants help to make it commerical, we help them
[2008/04/12 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: if they refuse help, take it
[2008/04/12 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: pay them
[2008/04/12 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: wh/ever
[2008/04/12 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: but ppl complain we have no commerical activitiy then tie the govts hands to make that happen
[2008/04/12 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: we cant have it both ways
[2008/04/12 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:15] You: hm – Prin have you proposed changes to the Commission draft, or (just for my understanding) are you speaking in favor of it as written?
[2008/04/12 10:16] Jamie Palisades looks for more typing …?
[2008/04/12 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: I think that at some point we have to have the option, and it was my virew of the commission, which had great participation, that there was that sense too, that in order for us to have thriving commerce the land deemed commericial has to be
[2008/04/12 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: used that way
[2008/04/12 10:17] Feminist Expedition: should be procedures in the cov., re land not used that is specified commercial…
[2008/04/12 10:17] Feminist Expedition: ?
[2008/04/12 10:17] Feminist Expedition: that was a q 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: they say its commerical
[2008/04/12 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: they say that
[2008/04/12 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: if you buy commerical and it says it has to be used as commerical already
[2008/04/12 10:17] Feminist Expedition: but need to give consequences of non-appropriate use…
[2008/04/12 10:17] Feminist Expedition: in my view
[2008/04/12 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: its clear
[2008/04/12 10:18] Feminist Expedition: then, it’s set up to take it back…
[2008/04/12 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: it says you have to comply with the community’s rules
[2008/04/12 10:18] Feminist Expedition: k
[2008/04/12 10:18] You: hmm – we are not going to have an action item today – so let’s keep the discussion to 10 mins? Prin, you’ve had a fairly long time to speak. Any others? Our rules suggest speaking in turn, 2 mins or less each
[2008/04/12 10:18] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/04/12 10:19] You: Let’s put further thoughts on the Forum then –
[2008/04/12 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/12 10:19] You: /viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611
[2008/04/12 10:19] You: next item
—-
[2008/04/12 10:19] You: 4
[2008/04/12 10:19] You: LRA bills
[2008/04/12 10:20] You: I suggest we hold this one over until next week
[2008/04/12 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: k
[2008/04/12 10:20] You: Really needs all RA members to have input, I think
[2008/04/12 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: think so
[2008/04/12 10:20] You: and next weeek, Prin, one of you who crafted that original LRA bill can present it?
[2008/04/12 10:21] You: good
[2008/04/12 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: MT can
[2008/04/12 10:21] You: next item then, good
—-
[2008/04/12 10:21] You: 5
[2008/04/12 10:21] You: Private Development
[2008/04/12 10:21] You: This was mostly Beathan’s bill
[2008/04/12 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we should still discuss it
[2008/04/12 10:21] You: and Guild plans to bring charter changes but not for another week orthree
[2008/04/12 10:22] You: OK, let’s take 5 mins, see if it gets us anything on discussisn only … Prin, you want your 2 mins first?
[2008/04/12 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: nope i give mine, i support this.. i think its crucial
[2008/04/12 10:23] You: Sonja?
[2008/04/12 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: id like to know what you think
[2008/04/12 10:23] Jamie Palisades looks around …? sees no speakers
[2008/04/12 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: you jamie? what do you think
[2008/04/12 10:24] Sonja Strom: Sorry, I often am slower than you guys.
[2008/04/12 10:24] Sonja Strom: If you want to hold the meetings in German, I will be faster 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:24] You: Prin, my own view is that there is a very good chance that Beathan and the Guild can integrate their views into something workable for everyone. Sonja? 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:24] Feminist Expedition: 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:24] You decline Winterfell – Medieval Gothic Vil, Winterfell (128, 225, 34) from A group member named Gabrielle Riel.
[2008/04/12 10:25] Sonja Strom: The DPU believes the CDS should build as much as it can with internal resources, but be willing to get outside help when it is stopped and would like help. The CDS has a lot of building resources. These are a little bit slow, but maybe not being used to their full potential.
[2008/04/12 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: so only if the guild actually stopps?
[2008/04/12 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: not to assist them ?
[2008/04/12 10:26] Sonja Strom: That is not my intention.
[2008/04/12 10:26] Sonja Strom: What I meant was, if there are difficulties moving forward with the resources we have.
[2008/04/12 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: and we think they are
[2008/04/12 10:27] Sonja Strom: For example, if a car runs out of gas, then you go outside to get it some gas.
[2008/04/12 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: what if you get two cars
[2008/04/12 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: and you put gas in both
[2008/04/12 10:27] Sonja Strom: That is also a possibility.
[2008/04/12 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: so you get more ppl there faster
[2008/04/12 10:27] You: 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:28] You: funf minuten
[2008/04/12 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: farfegnugen
[2008/04/12 10:28] Sonja Strom: haha
[2008/04/12 10:28] You: haben sie keine meinungen uber die Private Development Proposal, biei diesr sitzung, wo wir bildn keine abschließende taetigkeit? 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:28] You: or are we done for now?
[2008/04/12 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: im
[2008/04/12 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/04/12 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: but i am very curious on other stances
[2008/04/12 10:29] You: OK then
[2008/04/12 10:29] You: we shall ask the other two when they’re her next week 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:29] You: and Beathan may have a new bill text by then
[2008/04/12 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: they are both adamantly for this bill
[2008/04/12 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: MT is stronger than i on it
[2008/04/12 10:30] You: next item
[2008/04/12 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: and beathan well
—-
[2008/04/12 10:30] You: 6
[2008/04/12 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: obviously .. and it had so much public support
[2008/04/12 10:30] You: Public Referenda – Sonja – do I understand that we will hold that until next week?
[2008/04/12 10:30] Sonja Strom: Yes, we can.
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: very well 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: next item
—-
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: 7
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: conflicts of interest etc.
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: please note …
[2008/04/12 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: whoa conflicts of interest…yay!!
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: (1) we have a citizen bill, the latest version of which is here:
[2008/04/12 10:31] You: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1766&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15
[2008/04/12 10:32] You: and
[2008/04/12 10:32] You: (2) we have mine, which I mentioned last week, and is here:
[2008/04/12 10:32] You: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1773
[2008/04/12 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: can they be merged
[2008/04/12 10:32] You: and finally …
[2008/04/12 10:33] You: (3) I believe this may be viewed by some as a costitutinal amendment
[2008/04/12 10:33] You: which means ideally that to be best able to withstand (hypthetical) opposition …
[2008/04/12 10:34] You: … I’d love us to get 5 votes in favor of whatever we do here
[2008/04/12 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: thats likely i think
[2008/04/12 10:34] You: may I ask Robert, who is here, to introduce his proposal?
[2008/04/12 10:34] You: PMR?
[2008/04/12 10:35] PMRobert Walpole: Thank you Sir.
[2008/04/12 10:35] PMRobert Walpole: I am indeed honored to have the opportunity to address the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators
[2008/04/12 10:35] PMRobert Walpole: and speak in support of my proposed bill, entitled The Limitation of Terms Act,
[2008/04/12 10:35] PMRobert Walpole: the second draft of which resulted from extensive discussions and amendments on the CDS Forums and which I submitted to this Assembly by forwarding it to you, Mr. Palisades.
[2008/04/12 10:36] PMRobert Walpole: My draft bill addresses the problems of older citizens being elected again and again to the same positions or switching from one key CDS office to another, standing as candidates for one whilst still in office in the other.
[2008/04/12 10:36] PMRobert Walpole: In my humble opinion, when the same people keep running for political office with no interruption, they become part of a permanent political group whose members only come to CDS for the politics,
[2008/04/12 10:36] PMRobert Walpole: and have little or no time to actually spend time and develop our community: its events, its commerce, its human side of community building.
[2008/04/12 10:37] PMRobert Walpole: When most of one’s SL time is spent in three-hour meetings or in regular readings and posts on these forums, little time is left for socialising, networking, befriending, creating together with the newer CDS citizens.
[2008/04/12 10:37] PMRobert Walpole: Almost every single event, meeting, party, get-together, discussion I have participated in in the CDS was almost exclusively with newer citizens.
[2008/04/12 10:37] PMRobert Walpole: I have not met most of the older CDS members – and those I have, only briefly in RA or Guild meetings.
[2008/04/12 10:37] PMRobert Walpole: By adopting Beathan’s proposal of a “2 on, one off” term schedule, combined with a “cooling off” period of one term before one stands down from one office and run for office for another key CDS branch,
[2008/04/12 10:38] PMRobert Walpole: we would give older, more experienced CDs citizens some “time off” official duties and the opportunity to meet and socialise with our newer citizens, and so contribute to what I think remains the biggest current need of CDS:
[2008/04/12 10:38] PMRobert Walpole: true community building and creation of stronger bonds among all citizens, and especially among older and younger ones.
[2008/04/12 10:38] PMRobert Walpole: The second aim of my draft bill is to prevent glaring conflicts of interest where older citizens move too often and too quickly from one CDS office to another
[2008/04/12 10:38] PMRobert Walpole: to ensure that their “vision” of CDS is not endangered, or to deal with what they perceive as emergencies in our political system.
[2008/04/12 10:38] PMRobert Walpole: The current by-elections are a case in point, Gwyn and Justice, sitting members of the SC, both having served multiple terms as both RA and SC members,
[2008/04/12 10:39] PMRobert Walpole: After having approved the constitutionality of both the by-elections and CSDFâ€(tm)s right to present candidates,
[2008/04/12 10:39] PMRobert Walpole: decide to run for theses very two RA seats themselves, as CSDF candidates,
[2008/04/12 10:39] PMRobert Walpole: while still active SC members, in order to ensure that CDS won’t run off its tracks in a “wrong” direction.
[2008/04/12 10:39] PMRobert Walpole: Being allowed to run for one such office while still being a sitting member of another such office or immediately after ending one’s mandate, creates obvious conflicts of interest, both real and perceived,
[2008/04/12 10:39] PMRobert Walpole: for these individuals and undermines the confidence all our citizens, but especially the newer ones, may have in our political institutions and processes.
[2008/04/12 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi NODS
[2008/04/12 10:40] PMRobert Walpole: This problem is also addressed by my draft bill, which incorporates Beathan’s suggestion of a cool-off term
[2008/04/12 10:40] PMRobert Walpole: Ironically, it is exactly Gwyn and Justice, as sitting SC members, who will decide on the constitutionality of this Act if you, Ladies and Gentlemen of the RA, decide in your wisdom to vote in favor of it.
[2008/04/12 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi applauds
[2008/04/12 10:40] PMRobert Walpole: Thank you for your time and for taking my proposal into consideration.
[2008/04/12 10:40] Sonja Strom: Thank you Robert.
[2008/04/12 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: wow .. what an astute observation 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: ty for your time
[2008/04/12 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: i have a question
[2008/04/12 10:41] Sonja Strom: Me too.
[2008/04/12 10:41] You: go 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja
[2008/04/12 10:41] You: Prin then SS
[2008/04/12 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: oh
[2008/04/12 10:41] Sonja Strom: Would this be a constitutional change?
[2008/04/12 10:42] You: view? 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: idk?
[2008/04/12 10:42] You: heh – here’s what I think
[2008/04/12 10:42] PMRobert Walpole: That is not a question I can answer – nor even the RA I think. The SC will rule on this – that is, the very people concerned most directly by it – Gwyn and Justice.
[2008/04/12 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: lol ask the SC..
[2008/04/12 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: the very point
[2008/04/12 10:42] Sonja Strom: (sorry TP, I did not mean to go ahead of you, only did so because you said my name…)
[2008/04/12 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: sok
[2008/04/12 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: its an important question sonja asks
[2008/04/12 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: and its quite
[2008/04/12 10:43] You: Our community *may* include people who see any change of institutions they like as a constitutional matter – regardless of the text thereof.
[2008/04/12 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: illucidating
[2008/04/12 10:43] Sonja Strom: Would we need to have 5 votes in favor to pass it?
[2008/04/12 10:44] You: Sonja I do not wish to concede that we require 5 votes. But I’d say it would make some lines of attack harder to sustain.
[2008/04/12 10:44] Sonja Strom: It is an interesting issue…
[2008/04/12 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja, the SC has to answer this and the SC is who the bill affects, so i think that is the case in point
[2008/04/12 10:44] You: any other Q of Robert? or my turn?
[2008/04/12 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i have one
[2008/04/12 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: PMR you said:
[2008/04/12 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: PMRobert Walpole: The current by-elections are a case in point, Gwyn and Justice, sitting members of the SC, both having served multiple terms as both RA and SC members, [10:38] PMRobert Walpole: After having approved the constitutionality of both the by-elections and CSDFâ€(tm)s right to present candidates, [10:38] PMRobert Walpole: decide to run for theses very two RA seats themselves, as CSDF candidates,
[2008/04/12 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: why is that so bad if they are unbiased?
[2008/04/12 10:45] Jamie Palisades cautions again personalities or motive speculation – still smiling SO far
[2008/04/12 10:45] You: PMR?
[2008/04/12 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: shhh jamie
[2008/04/12 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: you just did what you cautioned against
[2008/04/12 10:45] PMRobert Walpole: Well, a legitimate legal system requires not only for justice to be done
[2008/04/12 10:45] PMRobert Walpole: but also for justice to be seen to be done fairly
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: in order to be accepted.
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: in real life at leasat
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: when a judge
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: is confronted with a case
[2008/04/12 10:46] Feminist Expedition: good point pmr 🙂 i appreciate your notice and work for this draft…
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: which affects him or her directly
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: they would be required by law
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: to lt the ery leeast
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: recuse themselves
[2008/04/12 10:46] PMRobert Walpole: from deciding that case
[2008/04/12 10:47] PMRobert Walpole: this clearly has not happened here.
[2008/04/12 10:47] You: Thank you Robert.
[2008/04/12 10:47] PMRobert Walpole: I hope it will happen if the RA
[2008/04/12 10:47] PMRobert Walpole: adopts this bill
[2008/04/12 10:47] PMRobert Walpole: and it ends up
[2008/04/12 10:47] PMRobert Walpole: in front of the SC
[2008/04/12 10:47] PMRobert Walpole: thank you
[2008/04/12 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i see
[2008/04/12 10:47] You: For my own part I have three concerns.
[2008/04/12 10:47] Sonja Strom: That is a very interesting observation! lol
[2008/04/12 10:47] You: One is that it’s unseemly for people to fill one role, act to especially benefit their own distinct cause as a candidate, officer or contractor of CDS, and then go get those benefits, in that role or a second changed one. I actually was worried about the originally in the context of this kind of HYPOTHETICAL example: (a) a contested RA election in which one faction is prominent, (b) the same faction controlling the SC (the election authority) and (c) the same faction exclusively running the balloting devices. Cosmetically it’s the issue PMR suggests – the problem is that it LOOKS like an uncontrolled opportunity for biased management.
[2008/04/12 10:48] PMRobert Walpole: indeed sir
[2008/04/12 10:48] You: The second is that we are a small community, so TOO much regulation will probably defeat the good faith contributions from our volunteers. There are many instances of benign or virtuous overlap, without unseemly self-interest – which we do NOT want to chill or discourage. (By the way I personally am a little worried about the ‘cooling off’ period in that regard, though I have not deeply analyzed that yet.)
[2008/04/12 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi shivers
[2008/04/12 10:48] You: and here I may differ from PMR, respectfully
[2008/04/12 10:49] You: last item – I think we may often do best to require *DISCLOSURE* of conflicts of interest – let people reveal their interests in public statements. In which case, we can let the public and officials judge for themselves … and if someone actually lies or hides acute selfinterest, impeach or otherwise several deal with those cases:)
[2008/04/12 10:49] You: *severely < several
[2008/04/12 10:49] You: done
[2008/04/12 10:49] Feminist Expedition: good points...
[2008/04/12 10:49] PMRobert Walpole: If I may
[2008/04/12 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: me too
[2008/04/12 10:49] PMRobert Walpole: reply to your last comment Sir
[2008/04/12 10:49] Sonja Strom: of course Robert...
[2008/04/12 10:49] You: other comments? I note no motion YET to adopt these -
[2008/04/12 10:49] You: yes PMR
[2008/04/12 10:49] Sonja Strom: I have one too.
[2008/04/12 10:49] You: PMR then SS please
[2008/04/12 10:50] You: 2 minutes each, hm?
[2008/04/12 10:50] PMRobert Walpole: I have drafted a bill, posted it on the forums, had it discussed and amended extensively, presented to this Assembly the revised second draft, and explained here my rationale for it. The rest is up to you members of the RA. I will leave it in your capable hands 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:51] You: sonja?
[2008/04/12 10:52] Sonja Strom: It seems to me that there is a little bit of a distinction between moving from one office or branch to another and being in the same office for longer than 2 terms.
[2008/04/12 10:52] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/04/12 10:52] Sonja Strom: I would like to ask if it really is necessary to consider these two issues at the same time.
[2008/04/12 10:52] Sonja Strom: I would be glad to have Robert's thinking about this.
[2008/04/12 10:52] You: I do not think so personally
[2008/04/12 10:52] You: bring them as two items next week, perhaps?
[2008/04/12 10:53] PMRobert Walpole: Indeed. i believe both prongs of the bill reinforce each other's aims and goals for the reasons I attempted to explain in detail earlier.
[2008/04/12 10:53] You: May I just also mention Beathan's comment about whether the proposed bill would disqualify any current RA candidates, here:
[2008/04/12 10:53] You: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1772#p10860
[2008/04/12 10:53] PMRobert Walpole: So the bill i submitted contains both. What you choose to do with it is of course your decision
[2008/04/12 10:54] PMRobert Walpole: ah
[2008/04/12 10:54] PMRobert Walpole: may I address that issue for a moment?
[2008/04/12 10:54] You: so we could receive, and discuss, separate motions to adopt each distinct piece as a law, next week, then ... and yes, please PMR
[2008/04/12 10:55] PMRobert Walpole: If we agree that there is a conflict of interest in sitting members of the key CDS offices of state running for another branch while still in office, and that a one-term "cool-off period" is appropriate, then on what grounds is an exception justifiable for these by-elections?
[2008/04/12 10:55] PMRobert Walpole: CSDF could easily nominate two other candidates to replace Gwyn and Justice.
[2008/04/12 10:55] PMRobert Walpole: This would preserve two outstanding citizens with substantial experience in governing the CDS where they belong, in the SC, and allow two other CSDF candidates to run for the RA, whose candidacies would not be shadowed by any issues of conflict of interest.
[2008/04/12 10:55] PMRobert Walpole: since voting in the CDS is a party-vote rather than a vote for individuals, this will bring little if any change in the dynamics of the by-elections: those citizens who want to vote for the CSDF and its platform will be able to do so regardless of who the CSDF candidates are; actually, this would encourage those who might hesitate to vote for the CSDF because of possible conflicts of interest to do so without any second thoughts.
[2008/04/12 10:55] You: let's limit comments on this to brief ones, please?
[2008/04/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: me?
[2008/04/12 10:56] You: as we're not acting, this week, and close to out of time.
[2008/04/12 10:56] PMRobert Walpole: this answer was by the way part of the in forum discussion we had 🙂
[2008/04/12 10:56] Sonja Strom: One brief comment I have is, although some CSDF candidates have been used as examples for demonstration purposes, this is a general issue and not directed at the CSDF (?)
[2008/04/12 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: there is a point that this bill adresses well and i think this is that it Preserves .. and increases volunteerism.......not thwarts it......:)
[2008/04/12 10:57] PMRobert Walpole: Oh of course. this was just a timely example.
[2008/04/12 10:57] You: OK. I can see some conuntervailing arguments about not changing rules once an election is under way -- which we can lavish time upon next week
[2008/04/12 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree with sonja
[2008/04/12 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: indeed it appears to decrease volunteerism
[2008/04/12 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: but i say it actually will INCREASE it
[2008/04/12 10:57] You: any last word on this for now?
[2008/04/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: and mostly .. the thing that matters most to CDS is that we support our volutneers.. and i totally believe that this bill prtects that and encourages and supports the ppl who volunteer from burnout and opens up opportunities for younger citizens
[2008/04/12 10:58] Sonja Strom: We could consider allowing the new members of the RA to be involved in the ultimate vote, perhaps...
[2008/04/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: lol sonja that is the whole point
[2008/04/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/12 10:58] You: hm - that's an ambivalent comment, Prin
[2008/04/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: so you let gwuen and justice fvote on the bill agbout whether or not they should have
[2008/04/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: been seated on teh SC
[2008/04/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: when they made the rules
[2008/04/12 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: then vote on it
[2008/04/12 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: again
[2008/04/12 10:59] You: are we done wih this topic for now?
[2008/04/12 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: no i didnt get noticed to speak
[2008/04/12 10:59] PMRobert Walpole: I am Sir. Thank you all for considering it.
[2008/04/12 10:59] You: ah OK - may I suggest that we adjourn after this item, as we're at our planned time to adjourn, and ask Prin fof her 2 minutes of comment?
[2008/04/12 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: why on earth would sonja want to have the ppl who the bill isactually in part addressing that we let them vote on it
[2008/04/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: and the bill encourages volunteerism and protects those who "do too much":
[2008/04/12 11:00] You: sorry 🙂 Prin, 2 mins. then adjourn is my suggestion
[2008/04/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: i LOVE it
[2008/04/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: adjourn
[2008/04/12 11:00] You: Prin, I am personally unaware of anyone who does too much for CDS
[2008/04/12 11:01] You: just so we're clear
[2008/04/12 11:01] Sonja Strom: Sorry to go against the procedures, but personally I would like to continue to hear what ThePrincess wanted to say.
[2008/04/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: thats a saying for ppl that get burnt out
[2008/04/12 11:01] You: she's welcome - it's her turn
[2008/04/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: and its so true that there ARE, ppl who have trouble saying NO
[2008/04/12 11:01] You: sorry, lag typos - please go ahead if you have more, Prin
[2008/04/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: but if they did, others would step up to the plate
[2008/04/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: in my opinion
[2008/04/12 11:02] Sonja Strom: (ok me too, sorry...)
[2008/04/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: im done i was ok
[2008/04/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: i can always type more
[2008/04/12 11:02] Feminist Expedition: 🙂
----
2008/04/12 11:02] You: excellent - hm - any urgent 'open chat' items, or are we done for today?
[2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: what time are we meeting next week
[2008/04/12 11:03] You: 9 am SLT
[2008/04/12 11:03] You: Saturday
[2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: same time next week, same bat channel
[2008/04/12 11:03] Sonja Strom: haha
[2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i have a question
[2008/04/12 11:03] You: per agenda item 1e - that's exactly right, Catwoman 🙂
[2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: can we have a theme
[2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: like
[2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: superhero day
[2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/12 11:03] Feminist Expedition: 🙂
[2008/04/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: im kidding
[2008/04/12 11:04] Feminist Expedition: for those who do too much?
[2008/04/12 11:04] Feminist Expedition: 🙂
[2008/04/12 11:04] Sonja Strom: TP, I think Alexicon would be the one to talk to about that 😉
[2008/04/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: can we during RA
[2008/04/12 11:04] Jamie Palisades thinks about capes and shudders
[2008/04/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: oh i should ask him
[2008/04/12 11:04] Sonja Strom: hehee
[2008/04/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: well i sell capes
[2008/04/12 11:04] You: yes, let's make that an executive branch thing
[2008/04/12 11:04] Sonja Strom: Jamie has a cape already!
[2008/04/12 11:04] You: speaking of which
[2008/04/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/12 11:04] You: may I just mention here
[2008/04/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie can you make cookies next time
[2008/04/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/12 11:05] PMRobert Walpole: Thank you for allowing me to present my draft bill and speak in support of it. I wish everyone a very pleasant weekend. Cheers!
[2008/04/12 11:05] You: that I confirmed with Alexicon that he has approved your reimbursement that we discussed last week at the meeting, Prin
[2008/04/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: ty
[2008/04/12 11:05] You: so I will pursuye it with Sudane and keep you potsed
[2008/04/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: well that si good but where is my money
[2008/04/12 11:05] You: posted
[2008/04/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: and why did it take so long
[2008/04/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i want to have the process clear
[2008/04/12 11:05] You: I am learning much about our budget process 🙂
[2008/04/12 11:05] Cup of fresh ground coffee whispers: Now THAT I needed!
[2008/04/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: its not about ME
[2008/04/12 11:05] You: Thank you also, Robert
[2008/04/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: its about the fact that everyone knows you never get reimbursed
[2008/04/12 11:06] You: we're adjourned
[2008/04/12 11:06] Sonja Strom: Thanks Robert.
[2008/04/12 11:06] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/04/12 11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: and i need money for the guided tour
[2008/04/12 11:06] You: Thanks all for coming
[end]
RA Meeting: April 19, 2008
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & locations
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate? (None.)
2. Chancellor request for web portal funding (5 mins.: 09h15-09h20)
3. LRA Bill(s) (15 mins.: 09h20-09h35)
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
4. Public Referenda (20 mins.: 09h35-09h55)
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1715#p10506
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1667
5. Conflict of Interest, etc. (20 mins.: 09h55-10h15)
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1772
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1773
6. Commerce Commission recommendations (15 mins.: 10h15-10h30)
— viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611
7. Private Development Proposal (15 mins.: 10h30-10h45)
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1721
8. Other?
9. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h55-11h00)
Adjournment: 11h00
Transcript of 19 April 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
[2008/04/19 9:06] You: Shall we start?
[2008/04/19 9:06] Moon Adamant: sorry Mr. LRA
[2008/04/19 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: yep ..
[2008/04/19 9:07] MT Lundquist: k
[2008/04/19 9:07] You: I note that Beathan sent regrets, so we all are here, of the seated members who will come today
[2008/04/19 9:07] You:
[2008/04/19 9:07] Moon Adamant: oh
[2008/04/19 9:07] Moon Adamant: and i came on purpose to explain the draft analysis if needed
[2008/04/19 9:07] You: Thanks all for indulging me in meeting here – nice way to commemorate this very successful & gorgeous 3rd sim project, as we grapple with the 4th one
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: Yes, Moon, let’s work that in
[2008/04/19 9:08] MT Lundquist: hi symo
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: ok but i dont like it here
[2008/04/19 9:08] Sonja Strom: Hi Symo
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: hello Symo
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: I think we were not going to do “priv dev” today in detail because Beathan’s absent, but …
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: btw, Mr LRA
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: The Guild has a question for the RA
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah lets wait for that one
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: some kind of update on where we all think we agree, with sim 4, would e nice
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi smiles
[2008/04/19 9:08] Moon Adamant: but it can be placed wherever you like in agenda
[2008/04/19 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: yes we are not in a hurry hun
[2008/04/19 9:08] You: OK Moon we will put it on agenda – and that agenda is here:
[2008/04/19 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: we have other things .. jamie i’ll speak with you later
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1796
[2008/04/19 9:09] You:
[2008/04/19 9:09] Moon Adamant sits quietly and listens now
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: so we are called to order ..
—-
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: and as item 1a
[2008/04/19 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi is always quiet and listening
[2008/04/19 9:09] Symo Kurka: (does not understand in what kinda meeting has been parachuted)
[2008/04/19 9:09] You: Would all present please indicate assent to being recorded in transcript. I assent.
[2008/04/19 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] MT Lundquist looks shocked
[2008/04/19 9:10] You: (Symo this is regular CDS RA meeting)
[2008/04/19 9:10] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] Symo Kurka: oops
[2008/04/19 9:10] Jon Seattle: I assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] You:
[2008/04/19 9:10] Symo Kurka: I assent
[2008/04/19 9:10] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: (Prin, I agree, this is a small room – once we have 7 seated members again it probably is out of the question)
—-
[2008/04/19 9:10] You: item 1b
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: Please look at the agenda – I just gave the Forum URI above in chat
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: we have one suggestion for change
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: report from Guild
[2008/04/19 9:11] You: should we just make that item 7 instead of taking up the current item 7, Beathan’s “Priv Dev” bill?
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: not hearing any obj …
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i object
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like it
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: to what?
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i cant cam and see ppl
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: its every annoiying
[2008/04/19 9:12] You: ah
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like this room
[2008/04/19 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: sok dont mind me
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: You may safely assume we will not using it again in my term – which is 2 more meetings
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: ahem
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: no objection, so amended agenda is approved
[2008/04/19 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi nods
—-
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: item 1c
[2008/04/19 9:13] You: Any one other than RA memebers come to speak on a specific item, who wishes to so indicate?>
[2008/04/19 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: so may i clarify?
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: if i want to speak what do i do exactly
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: what should say?
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: see people call me a troll cos i talk too much
[2008/04/19 9:14] Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into MT’s hand.
[2008/04/19 9:14] You: you are an RA member you just tell us you want to talk – this “rule” is about nonRA members getting priority in a queue
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i need to know the exact words i should use
[2008/04/19 9:14] Jon Seattle: I am here to answer any questions. In particular tech questions in relation to referenda.
[2008/04/19 9:14] MT Lundquist: just in case
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: but do i say.
[2008/04/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: ?me raises her hand
[2008/04/19 9:15] Jon Seattle: i will remain quiet otherwise.
[2008/04/19 9:15] Jamie Palisades looks around – more relevant to a more crowded meeting, smile
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: or do i just talk
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: thanks
[2008/04/19 9:15] Moon Adamant: well, i al ready indicated that the Ng has a question, no, two questions to ask this RA
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: and Jon that may be helpful
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: they said i’m a troll jamie
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: hush
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: please
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: so i want to get it right
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi hushes
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: I am not going to deal in here with attacks not raised in here, hm?
[2008/04/19 9:15] You: noting Jon and Moon’s items, then – next item
[2008/04/19 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: so if im a troll tell me
—-
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: 1d
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: Routine request: if anyone sees flaws in the posted transcripts or summaries, please let me know – or just make a corrective posting — but if you do the latter, please let me know, so I see it
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: next
—-
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: 1e
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: Future times for meetings
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: I have the following suggestion
[2008/04/19 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: well this isn’t working
[2008/04/19 9:16] You: Beathan & the rest of us are expecting this time, for the next week, so let’s do 9 am Satuday again on the …
[2008/04/19 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need to go back to sunday and maybe move it back so you have time
[2008/04/19 9:17] You: 26th, SLT
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe one on sunday instead of noon
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: im sorry this isnt seeming to work .. but then
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: well its too late in the UK
[2008/04/19 9:17] You: OK, Prin, how is this not working?
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: i just dont think we can find a good time nvm
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: well no one is here
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: how come we had packed meetings and all RA memebers every time on sunday ant noon
[2008/04/19 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and now
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: and last week
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: not so much
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: um this is not a roman circus, it’s a meeting which needs quorum, so to *my* eye it works if we get quorum
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i like an audience
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: do you think that other meeting time was better for – um – spectators?
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: well the citizens need to watch
[2008/04/19 9:18] Xcite! Ruler is now aimed at ThePrincess Parisi
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: yes cos twice in a roow not all the ppl in RA are here
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: its not good now with out beathan
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: I imagine you might, dear – my own cross to carry has been only to make sure we can keep a quorum, when we only have 5 seated
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: and no cindy
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: Now
[2008/04/19 9:18] You: here’s my take
[2008/04/19 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: see i need my faction here to IM me
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like this
[2008/04/19 9:19] You: Last week and this week we had one member gone – due to a nonrepeating one time commitment
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: im a nucare REP
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: not just me
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: but one time is now two
[2008/04/19 9:19] You: MT’s reunion, Beathan’s caucus – both one-time RL events
[2008/04/19 9:19] You: one time what, Prin?
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan was not here last time
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and now two in a row
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: without everyone
[2008/04/19 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and the common denominator is time
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: mt could have been here if it was sunday
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: see
[2008/04/19 9:20] You: me personal view is that we are both meeting too much – and have insufficient rules for kicking people who miss meetings off the RA
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: this is the middle of the weekend
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: sunday at one is the end but for us in sltime
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: so its more ppl at home
[2008/04/19 9:20] Xcite! Ruler whispers: MT stares at ThePrincess Parisi’s body and taps the ruler against his hand.
[2008/04/19 9:20] You: so in summary Prin – so that we do not spent all morning n repetitions of this point – you have decided that you prefer Sunday?
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: Whaat
[2008/04/19 9:20] Sonja Strom: Beathan posted in the Forum that he would have to be gone these two Saturdays to be a RL party delegate.
[2008/04/19 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i do
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: so i do a concert then now cos its a good time
[2008/04/19 9:21] Sonja Strom: He said after this one he could make it on Saturdays.
[2008/04/19 9:21] You: OK, well, you were one of the people who indicated a poiossible conflict with US Sunday morning church time – but let’s bring this to A CLOSE for now
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: but we dont have as big of an audience
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i like that part
[2008/04/19 9:21] You: I plan to call the next meeting one week from now at 9 am SLT You may overrule me now if you like. Otherwise, if no motion to do so, let’s move on
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i like sundays
[2008/04/19 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: nope i wont come
[2008/04/19 9:22] Moon Adamant: but Princess
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: I’m sorry? what are you saying, ThePrincess?
[2008/04/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: nvm
[2008/04/19 9:22] Moon Adamant: i am sure that your party is agog to support you even on saturdays
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: Ahem
[2008/04/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: go on im gonna pout
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: ThePrincess have you announced that you plan not to attend next week unless you get a time you like? If so please be quite clear on the record, right now.
[2008/04/19 9:22] You: OR MAKE A MOTION
[2008/04/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: no i will reserve my right to change my mind
[2008/04/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: go on
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: or else let’s .. move … on
[2008/04/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: MOVE ON
—-
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: item 1f
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: consent items
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: I know of none
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: anyone?
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: OK. 3 minutes behind: next item
—-
[2008/04/19 9:23] You: item 2
[2008/04/19 9:24] You: Our chancellor asked us for a funding request for webportals hosting fees
[2008/04/19 9:24] You: I think we asked him to post more detail, as I recall. Did he?
[2008/04/19 9:24] Jamie Palisades rummages through forums – anyone know?
[2008/04/19 9:24] Sonja Strom: Arria made a post asking for US$10/month.
[2008/04/19 9:25] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1798
[2008/04/19 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: sounds a lot better, what do we get for that exactly
[2008/04/19 9:25] You: hm – I thought Alexi said US$20 last week, but no matter
[2008/04/19 9:25] Sonja Strom: Hi Justice
[2008/04/19 9:25] Jon Seattle: Hi Justice
[2008/04/19 9:25] You: Hosting fee, I think, Prin, with what our PIO thinks is adequate traffic
[2008/04/19 9:25] Moon Adamant: hello Justice
[2008/04/19 9:25] You: (Justice, please assent to being recorded on the record when you get settled)
[2008/04/19 9:26] You: So
[2008/04/19 9:26] You: I think we should give our Chancellor and PIO the approval they want, to do this portal that multiple factions have stated they wish to see.
[2008/04/19 9:26] Justice Soothsayer assents
[2008/04/19 9:27] Sonja Strom: Me too.
[2008/04/19 9:27] You: May I have a motion to approve it? (at US$10 a month) per Arria’s post?
[2008/04/19 9:27] MT Lundquist: hi justice
[2008/04/19 9:27] Sonja Strom: I move that the RA approve US$10/month for the web portal project, per Arria’s post here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1798
[2008/04/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: Thanks. Any objections?
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: If I hear none it passes unanimously .. yes?
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: Good
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: next then
—-
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: item 3
[2008/04/19 9:28] You: Hello Roc, please siddown and assent to recording
[2008/04/19 9:29] You: by saying so
[2008/04/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: sorry, rezzing
[2008/04/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: helloflying roc
[2008/04/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: and I assent
[2008/04/19 9:29] You: item (ahem) (smile) 3
[2008/04/19 9:29] MT Lundquist: hi FR
[2008/04/19 9:29] Sonja Strom: Hi Flyingroc
[2008/04/19 9:29] Symo Kurka: Hi FRC
[2008/04/19 9:29] You: Prin? Who was the chief proponent of your LRA bill? Will we take it up at this meeting?
[2008/04/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: hi all, and now I sit quietly.
[2008/04/19 9:29] Moon Adamant: Hi FR
[2008/04/19 9:30] You: Here’s the bill: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
[2008/04/19 9:30] Jon Seattle: Hi FR
[2008/04/19 9:30] You: and I note that it’s generally a direct-election-of-LRA bill, and that after this, I will raise another one which would apply only to by-elections
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i don’t like haveing a bill for one circumstance and not all
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: I also note that I believe one of them may be a constitutional amendment
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i think that they should all be applicable in all situations
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like it one bit
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: Prin, do you, or anyone, wish to move adoption of your LRA bill posted 3 March, at the URI above, at this time?
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: LRA should stay the same formula and rules …..
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: I will speak about my idea when it’s proper, later in the agenda
[2008/04/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/19 9:31] You: but I have no motion right now
[2008/04/19 9:32] You: .. looking for one?
[2008/04/19 9:32] You: Ladies and gentlemen, if there’s no motion we will not take up the March LRA bill at this time.
[2008/04/19 9:33] Jamie Palisades smiles, watches the second hand of his watch, and waits
[2008/04/19 9:33] You: OK then
[2008/04/19 9:33] You: I am going to discuss the alternative for a bit then
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: I have sent another proposal to the forums, here –
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: I did so for the following reason
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: I think our Constitution and rules are appalling in their lack of clarity
[2008/04/19 9:34] You: and we WILL need to have an LRA after the by-election, somehow
[2008/04/19 9:35] You: and I do not personally feel that letting the SC – wether or not some of them feel they ought to recuse themselves – pick whoever it wants is wise
[2008/04/19 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: so we make ONE rule that covers ALL situations of the RA
[2008/04/19 9:35] You: .. and that’s what I think you will face, under current law – which COULD be read ambiguously to support ANY of the following outcomes:
[2008/04/19 9:35] MT Lundquist: yes i agree with prin
[2008/04/19 9:36] MT Lundquist: thats why we put the lra ill together
[2008/04/19 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: well we need ONE rule then
[2008/04/19 9:36] Moon Adamant: hello Gwyn
[2008/04/19 9:36] MT Lundquist: bill
[2008/04/19 9:36] You: (a) old LRA just stays in place – seems odd, if voters sweep in a new faction
[2008/04/19 9:36] MT Lundquist: hi gwyn
[2008/04/19 9:36] You: ahem let me finish, maybe?
[2008/04/19 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (a quick hi, I don’t want to interrupt, and I won’t be staying long anyway)
[2008/04/19 9:36] Jon Seattle: Hi Gwyn
[2008/04/19 9:36] Sonja Strom: Hi Gwyneth
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: (b) original LRA faction (in this case CSDF), who earned it in Feb election, gets it back IF they get one or more candidates – basically re-use the old result
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: or
[2008/04/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: and it needs to coordinate with the chancellor bill
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: (c) use some kind of math aggregation of Borda counts from February and April, smile, which is a math major’s dream argument
[2008/04/19 9:37] You:
[2008/04/19 9:37] You: I am done now.
[2008/04/19 9:37] Flyingroc Chung shudders at c
[2008/04/19 9:38] MT Lundquist: I propose that we add the direct election of the chancellor to the LRA bill as proposed in March
[2008/04/19 9:38] You: Prin you may speak agains this but you are out of order to talk about the March LRA bill .. unless … there … is … a … motion … to. .pass … it … now
[2008/04/19 9:38] You: MT, can I take that as a motion? Please
[2008/04/19 9:38] MT Lundquist: if it is the bill needs to be amended
[2008/04/19 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: the LRA should be elected by the RA and the chancellor by the citizens
[2008/04/19 9:39] You: agenda-wise we are hitting the time limit for this. I believe we should extend. All RA members OK with 10 minute extension for this item? Please say if you object
[2008/04/19 9:39] MT Lundquist: that would give the citizens a direct line into government
[2008/04/19 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn , strangely, agrees with Princess
[2008/04/19 9:39] You: MT can we have a motion?
[2008/04/19 9:40] MT Lundquist: yes the lra bill from march
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: OK – hang on – just checking text reference
[2008/04/19 9:40] MT Lundquist: amended for direct election of chancellor
[2008/04/19 9:40] Moon Adamant: i am sorry
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: Prin, you second this, yes?
[2008/04/19 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/19 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/04/19 9:40] Moon Adamant: wouldn’t that need an amend?
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: Ok all hang on a sec please
[2008/04/19 9:40] You: we are working on it
[2008/04/19 9:41] MT Lundquist: yes it will
[2008/04/19 9:41] You: OK. The motion on the table is …
[2008/04/19 9:41] You: the SECOND post (most recent version from MT) of the Billl in the thread posted in March, URI noted above … plus …
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: an amendment to directly elect chancellor – the text of which MT or Prin will get us during this meeting
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: now
[2008/04/19 9:42] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: that is definitely a constitutional amendment
[2008/04/19 9:42] MT Lundquist: i agree
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: some think it requires 5 votes
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we need to have that tabled til next session then
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: I don’t, but I am not on the SC – not even the smaller non-recusable one
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we cannot write a bill in this few mins
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: but
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we want this done this way……
[2008/04/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and not a buch of rulses
[2008/04/19 9:42] You: no prin we could act now and giv Beathan the 7 day voting period he’s requested
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie dont complicat it too much
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we can but we wont
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: I;m sorry, Prin, a question for clarification?
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we want to have time to write it correctly
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: I have two questions of Prin. EVERYTHING else is out of order.
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we want a week to add the election of chancellor
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: these are points of order.
[2008/04/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: ask
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: first
[2008/04/19 9:43] MT Lundquist: i agree we should wait until next week so the text is good
[2008/04/19 9:43] You: who is the “we” and what is the “it” in your sentence “we can but we won’t”?
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: huh?
[2008/04/19 9:44] You: MT I am working with Prin on a privileged point, please wait
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: the we is Nucare
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie i am not a lawyer
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i have no clue what the heck you are talking about
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: geek down ok
[2008/04/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: pedestrian
[2008/04/19 9:44] You: ah – and the “it” is the proposal to pass this time, then use the 7 day device? You are suggesting we just hold this item for next week?
[2008/04/19 9:45] You: If you are addressing me, watch your tone, ThePrincess
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: yes hold the item for next week so we can add
[2008/04/19 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[2008/04/19 9:45] You: very well. my first or two questions is answered.
[2008/04/19 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: “geek down” meens you are speaking above my head
[2008/04/19 9:45] You: Here’s my second.
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and i find that not pleasant sir
[2008/04/19 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: so back at you
[2008/04/19 9:46] You: ThePrincess, you mentioned a “ruse”, please clarify or withdraw your statement. I am curious because I thought you might be referring to an action of mine?
[2008/04/19 9:46] Jamie Palisades waits patiently
[2008/04/19 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i didnt use that word
[2008/04/19 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i said i didnt understand that lingo
[2008/04/19 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: so please talk to me how i can understand
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont even know what “point of order ” means
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: OK, here’s what my transcript has , I certainly can be mistaken:
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: [9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and not a buch of rulses
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: rules
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: a bunch of rules
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: ah
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: thank you
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: now
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: we have a motion and second .. but ..
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: Prin has suggested we withdraw it and wait until next week
[2008/04/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: im out by the pool and i can hardly see the screen sorry fro the typo
[2008/04/19 9:47] You: Are all members OK with that?
[2008/04/19 9:48] You: (waiting a week)
[2008/04/19 9:48] You: (and thank you very much for the clarification Prin)
[2008/04/19 9:48] Sonja Strom: I am OK with that.
[2008/04/19 9:48] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/04/19 9:48] MT Lundquist: i’m ok to table
[2008/04/19 9:48] You: Sounds like a plan then – and MT, can you get me some text on the chancellor thing, and post it to the March thread, before next Saturday?
[2008/04/19 9:49] MT Lundquist: yes will do
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: super
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: next item, if no one has more
—-
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: item 4
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: public referenda
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: note we have several active proposals from Sonja
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: and ballot expert Jon here as well to assist
[2008/04/19 9:49] You: Sonja, if I can …
[2008/04/19 9:50] You: ..let me just clarify that, to do what you want, we would need to …
[2008/04/19 9:50] Sonja Strom gave you CDS Referendum Bill – April 08.
[2008/04/19 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn would also like to have a small word on that after the RA members have talked, if I may.
[2008/04/19 9:50] You: … *first* make referenda legal, *second* approve the ones you’d proposed, or others, and *third* check into feasibility, yes?
[2008/04/19 9:50] Sonja Strom gave you CDS Referendum Questions Bill – April 08.
[2008/04/19 9:50] You: (Got it Gwyn)
[2008/04/19 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: isnt this constitutional?
[2008/04/19 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: wouldn’t you want to check feasibility first?
[2008/04/19 9:51] You: sure, Prin, if we approve it, so far as I know – because Sonja’s planned public questions are nonbinding, I cannot imagine a problem
[2008/04/19 9:51] You: engineer FR
[2008/04/19 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: I mean, if it cant be done why make a law for it.
[2008/04/19 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2008/04/19 9:51] Jon Seattle: (back)
[2008/04/19 9:51] Sonja Strom: TP, this would not be a constitutional change, because as Jamie said the results would not be legally binding but only advisory.
[2008/04/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: the questions are just examples?
[2008/04/19 9:52] You: I think our esteemed simian neighbor has a great point. Sonja, would you mind if I first ask Jon about timing and feasibility?
[2008/04/19 9:52] Sonja Strom: They are a version of an opinion poll.
[2008/04/19 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: cos i dont see asking a post RA passing question
[2008/04/19 9:52] Sonja Strom: Sure, go ahead Jamie.
[2008/04/19 9:52] You:
[2008/04/19 9:52] You: Jon, would you care to tell us whatever might be useful about how any referenda Qs we might adopt today would integrate into the current by-election?
[2008/04/19 9:53] You: (and thanks again, both for your service to assist CDS with the ballot, and being here today to help us)
[2008/04/19 9:53] Jon Seattle: Well, at Sonja’s request I added the feature to the election system. It allows yes / no questions to be added to the ballot. However, it has only been lightly tested.
[2008/04/19 9:54] You: so hmm – when does the ballot turn on officially, Jon?
[2008/04/19 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: noon SLT?
[2008/04/19 9:54] Jon Seattle: Noon SLT today. Now, I am still waiting for final word on the citizen list, so I very much hope it will open then.
[2008/04/19 9:54] You: Gwyn is answering the legal question I was asking about the device implementation
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: thank you Jon
[2008/04/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry.
[2008/04/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn hushes
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: i would personally really like a more comprehensive bill for this
[2008/04/19 9:55] Jon Seattle: Very welcome.
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: so assuming we are willing to further abuse your good will, and ship just-in-time questions, you actually can support it
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: i think its being rushed .. for nothing more than a poll
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: Please wait prin
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: that is something we can do …….a poll anyway
[2008/04/19 9:55] You: Sonja has passed around 2 notecards
[2008/04/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/19 9:56] Moon Adamant raises hand
[2008/04/19 9:56] You: I suggest we take up the “CDS Referendum” one now – and Prin, the SECOND one will be about what questions if any we put out this tie THIS one is just to *permit* referenda
[2008/04/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/04/19 9:56] Moon Adamant: oh, i’ll wait then
[2008/04/19 9:56] You: Just a sec Moon Sonja, do you move the passage of your first notecard?
[2008/04/19 9:57] Sonja Strom: I move that the RA adopt a Referendum process as worded in my notecard.
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think we are ready to vote
[2008/04/19 9:57] You:
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: we will vote against if we do it today
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: can we wait please
[2008/04/19 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2008/04/19 9:57] Sonja Strom: “At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a referendum question on the next previously scheduled ballot with a simple majority vote. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: its too rushed sonja
[2008/04/19 9:57] You: hm – why would we need to do that, Prin? Beathan’s 7 day thing?
[2008/04/19 9:57] You: Or are you just signalling that you and MT will vote against it?
[2008/04/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: if you dont need our votes its ok
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah
[2008/04/19 9:58] You: well right now it would be 2 to 2, and be left to Beathan
[2008/04/19 9:58] Flyingroc Chung:
[2008/04/19 9:58] You: which I note would make it too late for this election
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we don’t want to waste with a inadequate bill
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we want this
[2008/04/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: but we want it more comprehensive
[2008/04/19 9:58] Sonja Strom: It is interesting to me that you would say that.
[2008/04/19 9:58] Jamie Palisades makes a note that Prin opposes inadequate legislation, smiles and agrees generically
[2008/04/19 9:58] MT Lundquist: we want to see a better formed proposal
[2008/04/19 9:58] Sonja Strom: This question has been on the
[2008/04/19 9:59] You: I second it so that it can be debated – but suggest we keep further debate short
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: Forum for about 3 weeks now.
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: I have been asking for input on it the whole time.
[2008/04/19 9:59] You: SOnja, then Gwyn, the Moon, then anyone else, 2 mins limit each please
[2008/04/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: yes .. and we have a lot of distractions place on the government sonja by our friends at CSDF who have put the most huge roadblock to government in our history
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: There has been a lot of debate on it.
[2008/04/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: so there is a lot going on now hun
[2008/04/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: well we need it to wait
[2008/04/19 9:59] Sonja Strom: Why do you just now say that you want it to have different wording?
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: more comprehensive.. you are asking for nothing more than a poll
[2008/04/19 10:00] Symo Kurka: I think nobody can reasonably get scared from an “only advisory” referenda….
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: (me nots that while he does not personally agree with Prin about that, her satement about CSDF is *entirely* in-bounds as appropriate wording for a legislative debate)
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: an opinion poll with no strength
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: its a waste of law
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: hmmmm
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: its just an opinion poll for no reason but politics
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: and i dont like it
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: Prin would you aprrove a *binding* referenda law – not about a specific topic, just generally for CDS?
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: lets do a real thing that gives power to the ppl
[2008/04/19 10:00] Sonja Strom: So, which wording do you propose, ThePrincess?
[2008/04/19 10:00] You: binding
[2008/04/19 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: i will work on that after the election
[2008/04/19 10:01] You: OK
[2008/04/19 10:01] You: Sonja, any other comments for now?
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: the election that is taking so MUCH energy WAY AWAY from important things i might add
[2008/04/19 10:01] Sonja Strom: I feel that the CDS should be all about its citizens.
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: the unneccessary one
[2008/04/19 10:01] Sonja Strom: If it is not, what are we even doing here?
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i agree sonja
[2008/04/19 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i want it more about them than you do though
[2008/04/19 10:01] You: Prin let her finish please and wait you turn
[2008/04/19 10:02] Sonja Strom: The entire concept of this bill was to include the community in the direction that the CDS takes.
[2008/04/19 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: if we bother them to vote, then make it meaningful, its only lipservice like this
[2008/04/19 10:02] You: last warning before I censure you Prin
[2008/04/19 10:02] Sonja Strom: I put a lot of work into making it general enough and non-binding enough that all it would be is advisory to the RA.
[2008/04/19 10:02] Sonja Strom: I really don’t understand why anyone in the CDS, much the less in this room, would be opposed to this bill.
[2008/04/19 10:03] Sonja Strom: done, thanks.
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: cos its a waste of energy
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: its only a poll of opinions
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: and we need to not rule by that
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need to do something more
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: MORE
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: meaningful for voters
[2008/04/19 10:03] You: thank you. I have Moon, then Gwyn, then Prin if she has more – but we are talking about a referenda bill generally, not the specific proposed questions about sim 4
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like to vote for a thing that i know means nothing sonja
[2008/04/19 10:03] You: Moon? anything on this?
[2008/04/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: if i voote yes i want it to mean something
[2008/04/19 10:03] Moon Adamant: my question doesn’t have to do with the specific referenda bill, so i’ll pass and speak at the appropriate point
[2008/04/19 10:03] You: OK, Prin.
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: Please hush everyone and listen carefully
[2008/04/19 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: do you understand how furusteationg it can be
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: ThePrincess you are continually interrupting multiple other speakers and making it very hard for us to do our work …
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: and I strongly suggest you stop now ..
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: here is what I am going to do about it as presiding officer …
[2008/04/19 10:04] You: (a) I am warning you now
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: (b) I will make sure for the next meeting that I am able to physically eject members, and will ask the RA to approve that act, if you do it again next meeting AFTER multiple warnings
[2008/04/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: did Princess just leave?
[2008/04/19 10:05] Sonja Strom: Yes
[2008/04/19 10:05] MT Lundquist: yes i think so
[2008/04/19 10:05] Symo Kurka: lol
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: I will take it up with her separately then
[2008/04/19 10:05] MT Lundquist: and that affects quorum
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: does it? I see we have three – although I suppose you can choose to leave if that’s NuCARE’s position, MT
[2008/04/19 10:06] You: We are quorate with 3 of 5 trust me, I wrote the rule
[2008/04/19 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2008/04/19 10:06] Flyingroc Chung: omg can people *stop* with this “leaving the RA” thing?
[2008/04/19 10:06] You: and I have got my point about reamining in order on the record
[2008/04/19 10:06] You: let’s be civli, all, please
[2008/04/19 10:06] Sonja Strom: Thank you Jamie, it is unfortunate that a situation came about to where what you said was helpful, but I fully believe it did.
[2008/04/19 10:07] You: It is MY goal that everyone INCLUDING ThePrincess CAN participate effectively, and be heard, in a fair way. Period. Let’s move on.
[2008/04/19 10:07] MT Lundquist: i think we need to be careful about how we treat people here
[2008/04/19 10:07] You: we had, I think, agreed to hold Sonja’s bill over – and act on it next week – but Gwyn was in line to speak on it
[2008/04/19 10:07] You: I completely agree, MT
[2008/04/19 10:07] Moon Adamant: oh, MT has left too?
[2008/04/19 10:07] Symo Kurka: yes
[2008/04/19 10:07] Sonja Strom: Yes
[2008/04/19 10:07] Symo Kurka: offended
[2008/04/19 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/04/19 10:08] You: I note that MT has left, rendering us inquorate
[2008/04/19 10:08] Justice Soothsayer notes that MT has left the building
[2008/04/19 10:08] Sonja Strom: Nothing was said that was unfair.
[2008/04/19 10:08] Moon Adamant: i agree with Sonja
[2008/04/19 10:08] You: Well, I have a personal comment for the record
[2008/04/19 10:08] Moon Adamant: didn’t hear a word addressed to both that was unpolite
[2008/04/19 10:08] Justice Soothsayer: more unfortunate gamesmanship, I’m afraid.
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: This isn’t about NuCARE – I don’t think Patroklus would have liked the way I used parliamentary procedure to deal with him, either, if he and I had coincided on the RA.
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: Because some of his actions I found as disorderly as today’s.
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: So let’s not anyone get all uppity about being better than Prin, hm?
[2008/04/19 10:09] You: Sonja, let me just run down the other items we had, as a courtesy.
[2008/04/19 10:10] Sonja Strom: Sure, although I would also like to make a comment.
[2008/04/19 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is the RA still on record?
[2008/04/19 10:10] You: I suggest we let Gwyn offer her comments for the record – since she has been patiently waiting, if she likes, then simply NOTE other items and adjourn.
[2008/04/19 10:10] You:
[2008/04/19 10:10] Sonja Strom: Of course.
[2008/04/19 10:10] Moon Adamant: hm
[2008/04/19 10:10] Moon Adamant: i had some guild questions… but i suppose they can wait
[2008/04/19 10:11] You: We are in a meeting where quorum’s absence has been noted. We cannot act, other to adjourn. We can sit and chat if we wish. I am suggesting we take a few minutes to do that, to make sure we have loose ends wrapped up.
[2008/04/19 10:11] You: Gywn, do you still wish to speak?
[2008/04/19 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just briefly, since there won’t be a vote.
[2008/04/19 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to ask Sonja, as proponent of this bill,
[2008/04/19 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to consider Beathan’s compromise (since Beathan is not here to defend his view)
[2008/04/19 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and take it as a friendly to include at least “not more than one referendum per RA term”
[2008/04/19 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and yes, Sonja, I read you arguing otherwise)
[2008/04/19 10:13] Sonja Strom: done?
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As a matter of principle, the CSDF opposes *binding referenda* except for, well, things like changing the rights of people, ending our souveraignity, annexing countries… things like that
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But nothing against *consulting referenda*
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which are fine.
[2008/04/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I had a few more comments on one of the many threads on the referendum as *suggestions* but I won’t bother you with the details.
[2008/04/19 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Mr LRA. I’ll hush now
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: hm – like to hear more about that list someday, Gwyn, but not needed for today. Done for now?
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: OK
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: And Moon also had nothing on *this* item
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: Sonja? More from you on this before we move on?
[2008/04/19 10:14] Moon Adamant: no, just specifically on the 4th sim question
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: in a sec
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: OK then, this item is closed – with the note that we’ll pick it back up next week
[2008/04/19 10:14] Moon Adamant: but it can wait
[2008/04/19 10:14] You: now
[2008/04/19 10:15] Sonja Strom: I really don’t remember Beathan proposing “not more than one referendum per RA term.”
[2008/04/19 10:15] You: please look at the other items on the original agenda – see
[2008/04/19 10:15] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1796
[2008/04/19 10:15] Sonja Strom: I would for sure consider that.
[2008/04/19 10:15] Jamie Palisades hushes to let Sonja finish
[2008/04/19 10:15] Sonja Strom: However, it looks like work on this bill will continue for some time, so I don’t think it needs to be discussed further right now in this meeting.
[2008/04/19 10:16] Sonja Strom: done
[2008/04/19 10:16] Sonja Strom: (sorry if I interrupted Gwyn
[2008/04/19 10:16] You: OK
[2008/04/19 10:16] You: all done on this for now? (looking around)
[2008/04/19 10:16] Sonja Strom: I do have one more comment I would like to make about the disruptance earlier.
[2008/04/19 10:16] Moon Adamant: on the referenda bill? nothing to add
[2008/04/19 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no no, Sonja, you didn’t, I was finished)
—-
[2008/04/19 10:17] You: we will not take up items 5 (conflicts of interest), 6 (commerce commission) or 7 (Private Development) at this time
[2008/04/19 10:17] Moon Adamant: Sonja first?
[2008/04/19 10:17] You: .. had in mind about sim 4, related to item 7, to get it on the record …
[2008/04/19 10:17] You: OK. More from you, Sonja?
[2008/04/19 10:17] Moon Adamant: no, not related to item 7
[2008/04/19 10:17] Sonja Strom: ThePrincess and MT are elected officials, and as such can make any decisons in relation to the RA that they choose. For example, leaving in the middle of a meeting. However, it is clearly not helpful in any way if they are disrupting the order of the meetings and interrupting other speakers.
[2008/04/19 10:18] Sonja Strom: done
[2008/04/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: Sonja
[2008/04/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: there are conceptual devices called ‘Democracy Aids’
[2008/04/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: which could help
[2008/04/19 10:18] You: ??
[2008/04/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: soapbox, which you know, is one
[2008/04/19 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The hmm “talking stick”
[2008/04/19 10:19] You: We are talking about how to keep order? 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:19] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/04/19 10:19] Moon Adamant: i am suggesting that technological solutions may help
[2008/04/19 10:19] You: It seems to me that, if one uses such a device but others do not cooperate, the presiding officer still gets to tye same place of being required (as our laws permit) to use first warnings, and then sanctions, no?
[2008/04/19 10:20] Moon Adamant: of course
[2008/04/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, most definitely 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “social” measures always work better than “technological” ones 😉
[2008/04/19 10:20] Moon Adamant: of course
[2008/04/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But technology can surely help a bit.
[2008/04/19 10:20] Flyingroc Chung: you can have a scripted device auto-boot the person after making too many interruptions 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:20] Moon Adamant: the democracy aids are not intended to replace your power
[2008/04/19 10:20] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/04/19 10:20] Moon Adamant: but to help maintain order
[2008/04/19 10:21] You: Let’s ask for less levity – friends, it is no fun when someone has to be cautioned, censured or sanctioned.
[2008/04/19 10:22] You: The proper goal of a legislat8ive body is to restore them to constructive access to the session ASAP, so let’s not get into personalities please.
[2008/04/19 10:22] Moon Adamant: Jamie, i totally agree with you
[2008/04/19 10:22] You: now as for the devices
[2008/04/19 10:22] You: here’s the thing
[2008/04/19 10:23] You: we’d need to know WHAT it does and HOW based on what triggers – which I guess is saying, I am happy to let smart techies like Jon, CIndy or Roc program ballot boxes which I do NOT fully understand – but
[2008/04/19 10:23] You: if I were an RA member I would want to know VERY well exactly what triggers the little stormtropper gadgets use 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:23] Moon Adamant: hmmm no
[2008/04/19 10:23] You: so
[2008/04/19 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, more visual aids really, Jamie
[2008/04/19 10:23] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/04/19 10:23] Moon Adamant: imagine this
[2008/04/19 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not necessaruily “kick avatar if they have spoken for more than 3 minutes”
[2008/04/19 10:23] Moon Adamant: a small planetarium
[2008/04/19 10:24] Moon Adamant: each person in chat range has a sphere
[2008/04/19 10:24] Moon Adamant: as the people talk, the spheres increase proportionally to the ammount of total time they consume of teh discussion
[2008/04/19 10:24] Moon Adamant: so you have two effects
[2008/04/19 10:24] Moon Adamant: you see who is dominating teh discussion
[2008/04/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: people who are little participative may feel encouraged to participate more
[2008/04/19 10:25] You: Interesting (smile) – and maybe we take this thread to the forums? – but for RA meeting purposes, can we hold over that kind offer of suggestions and assistance, for the first meeting after our new by-election RA members are seated?
[2008/04/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: NY Law School had a similar project to this in hmmm
[2008/04/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: 2004?
[2008/04/19 10:25] Flyingroc Chung: oh god I am remnded of meetings where people who have nothing to say say stupid things just to sound “participatory”
[2008/04/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: you remember Justice?
[2008/04/19 10:25] Justice Soothsayer: we used the soapbox in the RA during the contentious judiciary debates
[2008/04/19 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:26] Flyingroc Chung: Clarence Thomas has it right 😉
[2008/04/19 10:26] Moon Adamant: i think it later on passed to Democracy island
[2008/04/19 10:26] Moon Adamant: it was this chair scheme… that approached/got further from teh centre
[2008/04/19 10:26] Justice Soothsayer shudders at Thomas
—-
[2008/04/19 10:27] You: Take to the forums, please? 🙂 can we, before departing today, ask Moon to tell us what the Guild was wishing to ask? Even though it will need to go to the forums – and next RA mtg – if you wish to give us a summary now, Moon, you’ve been patiently waiting.
[2008/04/19 10:27] Moon Adamant: anyway
[2008/04/19 10:27] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:27] Moon Adamant: the Guild is currentluy developing a lot of projects
[2008/04/19 10:27] Moon Adamant: requested work
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: Masterplan, BAC, 4th sim, etc
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: ah, i must also say
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: that Faculty elections will occur in the 24th April
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: as you know, we organize ourselves in workgroups
[2008/04/19 10:28] Moon Adamant: to accomplish these tasks
[2008/04/19 10:29] Moon Adamant: the 4th sim workgroup (btw, could teh RA think on a name for it?’
[2008/04/19 10:29] Moon Adamant: has met
[2008/04/19 10:29] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/04/19 10:29] Moon Adamant: and has 2 questions for the RA
[2008/04/19 10:29] Moon Adamant: one, which is simpler
[2008/04/19 10:29] You: Colonia Adamantum? heh
[2008/04/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: is if we can go down from the 50 plots
[2008/04/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: in order to be able to have a prim multiplier
[2008/04/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: we believe that perhaps with 4-5 plots less
[2008/04/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: we can give that multiplier to the future citizens
[2008/04/19 10:31] Moon Adamant: increasing their CN-4 experience
[2008/04/19 10:31] Moon Adamant: comments on this question?
[2008/04/19 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn will excuse herself for today and leave a bit earlier — sorry to interrupt, Moon, and bye bye to all 🙂 [and yes, permission granted to record everything I say and POST it on the forums, wink wink]
[2008/04/19 10:31] You: I do – any others?
[2008/04/19 10:32] You: ok then
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: Moon, I have 3 Qs
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: and yes, we will need to get any official acts from the RA next week
[2008/04/19 10:33] Moon Adamant listens
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: or whenever we are next quorate ..
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: 1. on the double/prim 50 thing: I believe the RA gave ytou the go-ahead, but subject to the Guild being able to come back and get clarity
[2008/04/19 10:33] You: so
[2008/04/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: one second please
[2008/04/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: sorry, back
[2008/04/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: not double multiplier
[2008/04/19 10:34] You: I see this as one of those things where the guild is waiting for the RA, now, and it’s up to use to come back to you, to keep the timeline moving. Is that a fair take?
[2008/04/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: but possibly 1.5 or so
[2008/04/19 10:35] You: ok, got it, > x2.0
[2008/04/19 10:35] Moon Adamant: well
[2008/04/19 10:35] Moon Adamant: mind also that we published these maps here
[2008/04/19 10:35] Moon Adamant: in teh forums
[2008/04/19 10:35] Moon Adamant: so that Guild memebers can sketch their plans
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: as it’s our usual method
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: as you know, our process is iterative
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: aiming towards a goal
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: which is optimal, perhaps not THE best
[2008/04/19 10:36] Moon Adamant: but optimal
[2008/04/19 10:37] You: yes. hmm. This is CN on the map on the table. Something on these maps we need to talk about? Or can I ask my other Qs first?
[2008/04/19 10:37] Moon Adamant: so i think our question is: is 50 plots an imperative necessity?
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: ah 🙂 that was my second point
[2008/04/19 10:38] Moon Adamant: remind that the white paper talked ‘about’ 50 plots
[2008/04/19 10:38] Justice Soothsayer must excuse himself
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: ta Justice
[2008/04/19 10:38] Justice Soothsayer: /salute
[2008/04/19 10:38] Moon Adamant: see you later Justice
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: Moon:
[2008/04/19 10:38] Moon Adamant: yes?
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: here’s my concern
[2008/04/19 10:38] You: There’s a procedural fork in the road here
[2008/04/19 10:39] You: if the Guild (a) ASKS ‘did you really mean 50′, I think the answer will come back “yes’
[2008/04/19 10:39] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:39] You: sort of obvious – that’s what their resolution said
[2008/04/19 10:39] Moon Adamant: so what if
[2008/04/19 10:39] You: but (b)
[2008/04/19 10:39] Moon Adamant: well, it said ‘about 50 plots’
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: 46 plots is about 50 plots
[2008/04/19 10:40] You: if the Guild says ‘we think 50 will NOT work and RECOMMEND “x” value instead, I think you get a more likely ear, here. So it comes down to whetehr ther Guild will express an opinion
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: we will do that then
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: also as when we start getting input and layouts
[2008/04/19 10:40] Moon Adamant: next question
[2008/04/19 10:40] You: Hye I am find with leaving it “as is” too, I just wanted to point out that the wording of the Guild’s missive might affect its reception
[2008/04/19 10:41] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:41] You: yes one more only for now
[2008/04/19 10:41] You: I have been watching the masterplan work – and thank YOU Symo for all your efforts there
[2008/04/19 10:41] Moon Adamant: well, you see that planning is an interactive process
[2008/04/19 10:41] Symo Kurka: yw Jamie
[2008/04/19 10:41] Moon Adamant: you don’t freeze stuff at any given point… only at the end
[2008/04/19 10:41] You: The limited concern I have for now is this
[2008/04/19 10:41] Moon Adamant: and yes, Symo’s been doing a great work
[2008/04/19 10:42] Moon Adamant: :))
[2008/04/19 10:42] Symo Kurka: (blushes)
[2008/04/19 10:42] You: will there be blowback, in the sense that CDS *must* take some future-sims issues into mind, and will have answers for them, by the time the final decisions/shape of the sim 4 work is done?
[2008/04/19 10:42] Flyingroc Chung: well guys, I gotta go
[2008/04/19 10:42] Moon Adamant: sorry
[2008/04/19 10:42] You: I am a little concerned that we “go hard” on 4 and THEN find out we’ve screwed up something else – since we seem to have a strong consensus to move FAST on 4
[2008/04/19 10:42] You: Ta Roc
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: well, that has to do with my second question
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: when we look at the CN map
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: which is the one in the middle of the grid
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: we have a high density area to the west
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: teh CN city proper
[2008/04/19 10:43] Moon Adamant: and to the east
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: we have lower densities… villas, etc
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: The 4th sim WG feels
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: that a better option to accomodate the 4th sim
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: would be CN-West
[2008/04/19 10:44] You: ah
[2008/04/19 10:44] Moon Adamant: for two reasons
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: 1. we can make a denser area to the north, which is a natural following of the city density
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: 2. if you watch the river
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: you will see that it cuts CN-West in two at insertion point
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: this *could* allow
[2008/04/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: a denser area to the north… city
[2008/04/19 10:46] Moon Adamant: and a less dense area to the south… bigger plots… perhaps no streets but paths only
[2008/04/19 10:46] Moon Adamant: which could make the linkage to the future AM-West simpler
[2008/04/19 10:46] You: so it’s sort of a placement issue. OK, helpful to hear. I’d frame that as a second possible Guild recommendation, i.e., would the RA mind if we put dense sim 4 on the other side of CN? Now, if that’s what you bring back to the RA next week, another Q that may some up then is this: how urgently must we act like Desmond does in Caledon to reserve/buy some strategic nearby map squares — to protect our regional footprint? And if there are issues there, do we need to move faster on some voids if the CN urban extension goes east versus west?
[2008/04/19 10:47] Moon Adamant: i will ask Symo to comment further, in case i forgot something
[2008/04/19 10:47] You: forgive the typos
[2008/04/19 10:47] You: (thanks for your patience, all, I know I’m finding this very helpful)
[2008/04/19 10:47] Moon Adamant: well, if you look at the map
[2008/04/19 10:47] Moon Adamant: you will see that CN -West or East defend exactly the same territory
[2008/04/19 10:48] Moon Adamant: we’re not playing checkerboards… space is empty around CN
[2008/04/19 10:48] You: ok – o THIS one decision is not too strategicaly consequential 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:49] Moon Adamant: issues will happen when we start expanding the NFS cluster to south and East
[2008/04/19 10:49] You: from a map-minding point of view
[2008/04/19 10:49] Moon Adamant: no, none at all
[2008/04/19 10:49] You: yes, that’s where I personally fret about needing voids soon, too
[2008/04/19 10:49] Moon Adamant: those you can indeed place like pawns
[2008/04/19 10:49] You: Sonja, any questions before we let these nice patient people go?
[2008/04/19 10:50] Sonja Strom: No, but I would like to thank them for all of the work they have put into this project. :-0
[2008/04/19 10:50] Sonja Strom: 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:50] You: I second that 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: ehehe
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: our pleasure
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/04/19 10:50] You: Anything else from the Guild for now?
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: let me resume then
[2008/04/19 10:50] You: 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:50] Moon Adamant: atm: faculty elections are occuring
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: masterplan is full speed
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: tahnks to Symo 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: sim 4 is going, i am expecting that people start presenting layouts
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: hmmm
[2008/04/19 10:51] Symo Kurka: .. and tons of volunteers
[2008/04/19 10:51] Moon Adamant: 🙂
[2008/04/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: we are currently also discussing how to adapt the Guild
[2008/04/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: in the light of the Draft Analysis/Beathan’s proposal
[2008/04/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: plus tons of other projects
[2008/04/19 10:52] You: the Guild has advised the RA that we will receive some charter change proposals eventuaslly, so we’ll wait for you to come back to us, on that
[2008/04/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: those are being drafted atm
[2008/04/19 10:53] You: May I ask – about the faculty elections
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: they will have to be presented to the Faculty and Board
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: approved there
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: and then approved by you
[2008/04/19 10:53] Moon Adamant: sure
[2008/04/19 10:53] You: there’s some inept wordsin the Constitution abot rotatioons and timing election to try and make sure we give people opportunities to serve in one place or the otyher
[2008/04/19 10:53] You: the spirit seems clear, though .. and …
[2008/04/19 10:54] Moon Adamant: the new charter will have conflict of interest clauses too
[2008/04/19 10:54] Moon Adamant: is that what you mean?
[2008/04/19 10:54] You: it seems sort of unfortunate that a faculty election closing the 24th April might prevent you from electing from any of the 5 RA candidates now running — of which we will only get 2 for the RA. How’s that work?
[2008/04/19 10:54] You: no — I am thinking about election timing, not confliucts
[2008/04/19 10:54] Moon Adamant: well, atm
[2008/04/19 10:05] You: 🙂 I will take it up with her separately then
[2008/04/19 10:55] You: If I were a candidate of RA in this b-election, does that *prevent* me from joining the faculty, if I lose on the 26th?
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: could run for RA and for Faculty Chair
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: well
[2008/04/19 10:55] You: or can one be both?
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: let me explain
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: The Board, as you know is an ad-hoc democracy
[2008/04/19 10:55] Moon Adamant: who’s there, votes
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: the Faculty is more like teh SC
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: it’s a meritocracy
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: and peopel get invited to be Faculty members
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: and are voted in
[2008/04/19 10:56] Moon Adamant: atm, teh Faculty is small
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: as i say, only Dnate is in the position you mention
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: BUT
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: even if he is elected to the RA
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: that doesn’t stop him from being a faculty member
[2008/04/19 10:57] You: ah OK
[2008/04/19 10:57] You: so in summary, no immediate problems under current law
[2008/04/19 10:57] Moon Adamant: no, not at all
[2008/04/19 10:57] You: good, that’s all I was wondering
[2008/04/19 10:58] You: and thank you again, both for your work, and or your patiene today
[2008/04/19 10:58] Moon Adamant: btw, Jamie
[2008/04/19 10:58] Moon Adamant: a workgroup that has been created
[2008/04/19 10:58] Moon Adamant: is to study current gov spaces
[2008/04/19 10:58] Moon Adamant: and better them/increase them
[2008/04/19 10:59] Moon Adamant: give an office to teh chancellor, a meeting room for the SC
[2008/04/19 10:59] You: Ah ha. That sounds lie a good idea. And I recall the thread about an office for Alexi and Arria. May we adjourn officially? And then if there’a a desire to chat, that can be done informally
[2008/04/19 10:59] Moon Adamant: increase teh seating space in the rathaus, etc
[2008/04/19 10:59] Moon Adamant: sure, i second
[2008/04/19 10:59] You: ha ha
[2008/04/19 10:59] You: OK we are adjoruned
[end]
RA Meeting: April 26, 2008
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times: process for determining next meeting
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate? (None.)
2. LRA Bill(s) (25 mins.: 09h15-09h40)
— Jamie’s current comments: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1817
— MT’s revised bill: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1806
— Mt’s original bill: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
— Jamie’s oroiginal proposal: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
3. Conflict of Interest, etc. (25 mins.: 09h40-10h05)
— Citizen bill from PMR Walpole: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1772
— Jamie’s original proposal: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1773
4. Private Development Proposal, planning progress (20 mins.: 10h05-10h25)
[expected to be discussion only]
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1721
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1628
5. Commerce Commission recommendations (20 mins.: 10h25-10h45)
[expected to be discussion only]
— reference : viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611
6. Parliamentarian etc. (5 mins.: 10h40-10h45)
7. Other?
8. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h45-11h00)
Adjournment: 11h00
Held in Neufreistadt Rathaus
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
Transcript: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1833
===
[09:14] Called to order.
[09:15] 1a – Call for assent to recording.
[09:16] 1b – Agenda reviewed and approved.
[09:17] 1c – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[09:18] 1d – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[09:19] 1e – Future RA meeting schedule.
[09:22] 1f – Consent agenda. (No items.)
[09:30] 2 – LRA designation after by-election
— Discussion of MT Lundquist bill [09:25]. Motion [09:41] and second [09:41] but withdrawn [09:45]. Motion [09:46] and second [09:46] to approve bill but withdrawn [10:01].
[10:09] 3 – Conflicts of interest.
— Discussion of PMR Walpole bill. Motion [10:31] and second [10:35] to enact of that (NonCumulations of Mandates) bill with a modifed para 3. Clarification of text at [10:33].
—- Motion maded [10:47] and seconded [10:48] to amend bill to remove para 1 (term limits) of bill. Amendment approved 4-0-0. [11:09]
— Further discussion about possible redrafting at [11:12].
— Motion rejected: 1-0-2 [11:16].
[11:23] Adjourned.
Transcript of 25 April 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
[2008/04/26 8:59] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Neufreistadt/44/82/123
[2008/04/26 9:00] You: Good morning.
[2008/04/26 9:00] You: Or whatever’s applicable MT 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:01] MT Lundquist: afternoon lol
[2008/04/26 9:01] You: Jon, how are you?
[2008/04/26 9:01] Jon Seattle: Hi Jamie 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:01] Jon Seattle: too busy 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:01] ThePrincess Parisi: exuse me please
[2008/04/26 9:01] Serra Anansi gave you To JPalisades: From his humble servant, Miss Serra.
[2008/04/26 9:01] Moon Adamant: hello everyone.
[2008/04/26 9:02] You: Let me take a second and send pings in the appropriate directions 🙂 Good morning Prin
[2008/04/26 9:02] Jon Seattle hugs Moon
[2008/04/26 9:02] Jon Seattle: chat lag
[2008/04/26 9:02] You: Moon 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:02] Moon Adamant hugs Jon
[2008/04/26 9:02] ThePrincess Parisi: i need to be sort of excused a mintue jame sorry
[2008/04/26 9:02] ThePrincess Parisi: brb
[2008/04/26 9:03] Jon Seattle: Hi Justice 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:03] Justice Soothsayer: Hi
[2008/04/26 9:03] You: 🙂 hello all – a moment while IMs are flying, please
[2008/04/26 9:04] MT Lundquist: back
[2008/04/26 9:05] Moon Adamant: hi Justice 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:05] You: Right. Waiting for Prin to return from BrB I think
[2008/04/26 9:06] You: I’ve pinged Beathan; Sonja gave regrets and is busy with RL commitments all weekend I think
[2008/04/26 9:06] You: the proposed agenda is here:
[2008/04/26 9:07] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1816
[2008/04/26 9:08] Yogeswari Padar: hi guys
[2008/04/26 9:08] MT Lundquist: hi
[2008/04/26 9:08] Jon Seattle: Hi Yoge 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:08] You: While not yet in session, let me note two other things informally
[2008/04/26 9:08] You: (hello all)
[2008/04/26 9:08] You: 1. Polls close today
[2008/04/26 9:09] You: and 2. There’s been some chat in the Forums about whether we ought to meet today (i.e., before they do)
[2008/04/26 9:09] Jon Seattle had better pay attention to #1 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:09] MT Lundquist: when do the polls close
[2008/04/26 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: back
[2008/04/26 9:09] Jon Seattle: Noon SLT
[2008/04/26 9:09] Justice Soothsayer: 2 hours 51 mins
[2008/04/26 9:09] You: Just informationally, Jon, do you basically dump the DB results to Clauide at the end of the polling period? How’s that actually work?
[2008/04/26 9:09] MT Lundquist: back in a minute
[2008/04/26 9:10] MT Lundquist: i need to vote
[2008/04/26 9:10] You: We have BV and TPP, and MT’s out for a sec 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:10] Jon Seattle: Well, I download the votes and run the program that does the calculations. I then send the whole package, votes, program, and results to Claude via email.
[2008/04/26 9:10] You: thanks for the clarification
[2008/04/26 9:10] Beathan Vale: I’m not out
[2008/04/26 9:11] You: yes, and hello Beathan
[2008/04/26 9:11] You: soon as MT returns I suggest we begin – or in 3 mins if earlier
[2008/04/26 9:11] You: let’s see. hm. Let me ask a delicate question – but one which is meant for constructive reasons.
[2008/04/26 9:12] Jon Seattle listens
[2008/04/26 9:12] You: Jon, there’ve been various bills and proposed bills about ‘voting security’ and the like. Nevertheless, if in future times we get into policy chats about the voting rules — are any of the former results availability in detail in anonymized form? The sort of data that would allow multiple dispassionate people to say, ah, if we changed the rule *thus*, the results would have been “X”. …?
[2008/04/26 9:13] You: I just don;t know if we destroy them, or archive them, or what.
[2008/04/26 9:13] Jon Seattle: Ah, the votes I download will have no identifiers and be in random order
[2008/04/26 9:13] Jon Seattle: Claude can release them if he wishes
[2008/04/26 9:13] Jon Seattle: I support releasing them, and also the program that does the calculations
[2008/04/26 9:13] You: so the data’s available, in short, if the various partries wished. Got it.
[2008/04/26 9:13] You: thanks
[2008/04/26 9:14] Jon Seattle: Indeed.
[2008/04/26 9:14] You: Hm – did we lose ThePrincess?
[2008/04/26 9:14] You: I will IM her then call us to order.
—-
[2008/04/26 9:14] You: OK, a litle slow, but we are called to order.
[2008/04/26 9:15] You: agenda here – /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1816
[2008/04/26 9:15] You: subject to the members 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:15] You: 1a – Would all present please assent to being included in the transcript – I assent.
[2008/04/26 9:15] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/04/26 9:15] Jon Seattle: I assent
[2008/04/26 9:15] Justice Soothsayer assents
[2008/04/26 9:16] MT Lundquist: i assent and apologise for being temporarily absent
[2008/04/26 9:16] You: Thank you ..will need recording assents from Beathan and Yogi
[2008/04/26 9:16] Beathan Vale: assent
—-
[2008/04/26 9:16] You: 1b
[2008/04/26 9:17] You: Any propsoed changes to agenda as posted? I note several itesm *may* be either just quick discussion, or skipped today
[2008/04/26 9:17] You: not hearing any
—-
[2008/04/26 9:17] You: 1c …
[2008/04/26 9:18] You: any citizens (nonRA members) who want to get in queue now for any of the posted agenda items?
[2008/04/26 9:18] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/04/26 9:18] You: not hearing any, that’s fine
—-
[2008/04/26 9:18] You: 1d
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: Routine request: if anyone sees flaws in the posted transcripts or summaries, please let me know – or just make a corrective posting — but if you do the latter, please let me know, so I see it
—-
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: 1e
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: Future meetings (smile)
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: I’ve proposed, on the Forums, that I poll the 7 members as soon as the byelection results are announced
[2008/04/26 9:19] You: and post the results and proposed a next meeting
[2008/04/26 9:20] Jamie Palisades smiles and shrugs – any thoughts?
[2008/04/26 9:20] Beathan Vale: good proposal
[2008/04/26 9:20] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/04/26 9:20] You: Some may note that Arria used a free web polling device to set the debate time, as between the participants
[2008/04/26 9:20] You: 🙂 I will see if I can adapt that
[2008/04/26 9:20] You: one more comment
[2008/04/26 9:21] You: I would like to see us stick with a fixed time – and I would DEARLY like to see us go biweekly
[2008/04/26 9:21] You: Your interim LRA thinks he is seeing evidence of meeting fatigue 😀
[2008/04/26 9:21] You: but this is a matter for the 7 seated reps to sort out, shortly 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:21] Beathan Vale: it’s been a rather bruising session
[2008/04/26 9:22] MT Lundquist: i agree we wait until the 7 are seated
[2008/04/26 9:22] You: Indeed. And thanks. Anything else on meetings?
—-
[2008/04/26 9:22] You: 1f then
[2008/04/26 9:22] You: which is consent items
[2008/04/26 9:22] You: and I have none. Anyone?
[2008/04/26 9:23] Beathan Vale: Any opposition to Conflict of interest?
[2008/04/26 9:23] MT Lundquist: none
[2008/04/26 9:23] You: Hmn – there are 2 or 3 bills BV, so I have a slot for it on this agenda
[2008/04/26 9:23] You: I suspect at least some chat will be needed
[2008/04/26 9:23] You: also Prin should be here for that if possible
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: I put the LRA bill next, as that might read directly on the pending elections …
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: which also is true about C of I
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: .. so…
—-
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: 2
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: LRA
[2008/04/26 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: shiuaakss
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: by way of procedure
[2008/04/26 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: no i dont wanna go every other week
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: (:) WB TPP)
[2008/04/26 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks i will leave again
[2008/04/26 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: none of nucare voted
[2008/04/26 9:24] You: OK, let’s chat with new RA about that
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i htought we had til next week
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: eh?
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: w.e i dont care
[2008/04/26 9:25] Jamie Palisades smiles …
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: item 2
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: LRA bills
[2008/04/26 9:25] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: we have the March bill
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: (see mny agenda – the URI is in there)
[2008/04/26 9:25] You: and mT has updated it
[2008/04/26 9:25] MT Lundquist: well its been posted on the forum
[2008/04/26 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i know
[2008/04/26 9:25] MT Lundquist: as people have seen and commented
[2008/04/26 9:26] You: this week, yes, so that’s the first one we take up I think
[2008/04/26 9:26] MT Lundquist: there are 2 proposals
[2008/04/26 9:26] You: Your ball, MT
[2008/04/26 9:26] MT Lundquist: both intended to balance power in cds
[2008/04/26 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: whos out of order jamie or MT
[2008/04/26 9:26] Jamie Palisades smiles and points to MT as the person who has the floor, and this bill
[2008/04/26 9:26] MT Lundquist: the first is to ensure that the ra is led by consent of ra members
[2008/04/26 9:27] MT Lundquist: ensuring that the RA meetings are constructive and benificial to CDS
[2008/04/26 9:27] MT Lundquist: the second is to balance the power to citizens
[2008/04/26 9:27] MT Lundquist: to ensure they have a direct voice in government and to balance the power of the ra to some extent
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: so election of lra by the ra
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: and direct election of chancellor by citizens as one package
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: oh
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: and the bill has been discussed by most ra factions before the final version was draw up
[2008/04/26 9:28] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: may i answer one of justices comments
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: on the forum
[2008/04/26 9:29] You: certainly
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: he said he didnt see a motivation that was constructive for interwtwining the two
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: and he said ……….
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: that it was for devisive purposes
[2008/04/26 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: but..
[2008/04/26 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: the reason is the two balance each other
[2008/04/26 9:30] Yogeswari Padar: point of order
[2008/04/26 9:30] Beathan Vale: intertwining the two was at my insistence — because I did not want to take away a role that served the entire CDS in an elected rather than selected capacity without replacing it with a similar role
[2008/04/26 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: and that only one
[2008/04/26 9:30] Yogeswari Padar: the person you are quoting is “way” at present
[2008/04/26 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks beathan
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: quoting?
[2008/04/26 9:31] Yogeswari Padar: perhaps you could wait until he returns?
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: its in the forum
[2008/04/26 9:31] Moon Adamant: common pooliteness 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:31] Moon Adamant: let justice speak also
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: im sure he can read back
[2008/04/26 9:31] You: 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: and speak when he returnes
[2008/04/26 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you moon
[2008/04/26 9:31] Moon Adamant: i hold my peace :9
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie should i wait
[2008/04/26 9:32] You: Prin? You have any more for now? Justice can speak if & when he wishes
[2008/04/26 9:32] You: You;re here, it;s on the record 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: well i want ppl to know clearly that our motivation was not as accused by the opposition
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: on the forums
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: for log rolling
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: but infact to GIVE to the people
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: the power they deserve
[2008/04/26 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: amen
[2008/04/26 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: ad the LRA loses a bit of control, via the largest faction
[2008/04/26 9:33] You: ok. Done?
[2008/04/26 9:33] You: 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: the ppl can choose that he
[2008/04/26 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: Chanellor
[2008/04/26 9:33] Beathan Vale: < --- needs coffee -- brb
[2008/04/26 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: has that power and more
[2008/04/26 9:33] Beathan Vale: but first -- I move that we continue this one week
[2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: and that the chancellor does NOT have to be tied for the sake of theRA vote
[2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: it gives the popluatoin MORE choice
[2008/04/26 9:34] Beathan Vale: it is a Constitutional amendment and we lack the attendance needed to pass such without SC scrutiny
[2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: More power
[2008/04/26 9:34] Beathan Vale: and Lord preserve us from SC scrutiny 😉
[2008/04/26 9:34] You: hm
[2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: and MORE influence on their community and their government
[2008/04/26 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: for the record
[2008/04/26 9:34] MT Lundquist: i thought we have 7 day vote
[2008/04/26 9:35] You: let's let TP finish her remarks, then deal with that, BV
[2008/04/26 9:35] MT Lundquist: then we have 5
[2008/04/26 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: as our absent RA person knows and believes
[2008/04/26 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: should be
[2008/04/26 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i am done
[2008/04/26 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks
[2008/04/26 9:36] You: OK thanks. I have a few procedural items, and BV's suggestion. Can we move straight to those, before more chat about the substance?
[2008/04/26 9:36] Jon Seattle: Hi Gwyn 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:36] MT Lundquist: hi Gwyn
[2008/04/26 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi hi 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:36] Yogeswari Padar: hi gwyn!
[2008/04/26 9:36] You: (Yogi, Gwyn, please assent to recording.)
[2008/04/26 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: jon?
[2008/04/26 9:36] You: MT, I have a question, just for clarity -- Your post (thread 1806 from 23 April) looks like it has two parts - a bill headed "Election of LRA by the members of the RA" .. with the actual text after the line "Amendment" ... and then, some lines down, a second part headed "Direct Election of Chancellor".. again, with specific amending language after the explanation. SO: do I have it right that you are moving to enact both halves at once? Just want to make sure 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/04/26 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, record at will, Mr LRA!
[2008/04/26 9:37] MT Lundquist: yes the aim is to have both together
[2008/04/26 9:37] MT Lundquist: as one bill
[2008/04/26 9:37] You: OK.
[2008/04/26 9:37] MT Lundquist: i just separated it for clarity
[2008/04/26 9:37] Beathan Vale: I have indicated that I am opposed to considering them separately
[2008/04/26 9:38] You: Thanks. Good to have that clear. "Package deal." But before you have made a motion to adopt it - which we haven't had yet - Beathan moved to delay it a week. I think?
[2008/04/26 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: because when you take one away you give it to the other
[2008/04/26 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: so they ahve to be the same
[2008/04/26 9:38] You: Beathan? Are you suggesting a delay to next meeting?
[2008/04/26 9:38] Beathan Vale: if both the Chancellor and the LRA has an electoral mandate -- it is unclear who is electoral head of state; if neither do, we have no person represented the entire CDS
[2008/04/26 9:38] Beathan Vale: I think so -- we should have 5 in attendance then
[2008/04/26 9:39] MT Lundquist: why would the 7 day vote not count
[2008/04/26 9:39] Beathan Vale: if we pass this 4 with 1 abstain -- it is not a clear Constit vote
[2008/04/26 9:39] Beathan Vale: well -- a 7 day vote could do it too
[2008/04/26 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: whos abstaining
[2008/04/26 9:39] You: OK just to clarify, note that without 5 votes in favor, some of our more, er, conservative, rightwiong legalists 😀 might dispute that a constitutional amendment is effective
[2008/04/26 9:39] You: hm
[2008/04/26 9:39] Beathan Vale: Sonja not here -- and I was not aware that anyone had requested a 7 day vote
[2008/04/26 9:39] You: Prin? Here's the thing: Sonja did not request a 7 day vote
[2008/04/26 9:40] Walking Sounds Copy/Trans SFD V2 copy mod trans: Couldn't find sound 1
[2008/04/26 9:40] You: and so far as I know -- help me out here people, the 7 day rule predates me -- no one but the member can ask for a 7 day hold for that person. Si?
[2008/04/26 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/26 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i ask for this for sonja
[2008/04/26 9:40] Beathan Vale: I think that we can even set a 7 day vote for ourselves if we want more time
[2008/04/26 9:40] You: kk so we can have four votes today, or 5 to 7 next nmeeting, I guess
[2008/04/26 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/26 9:40] You: hmm
[2008/04/26 9:41] Beathan Vale: so -- I amend my motion to allow for a seven day vote
[2008/04/26 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: and we dont have to vote at all if we dont want
[2008/04/26 9:41] MT Lundquist: seconf bv
[2008/04/26 9:41] You: Ok, good, we have a motion and second 🙂 Jamie likes clarity of process
[2008/04/26 9:41] You: now
[2008/04/26 9:42] You: BV as motion proponent, tell me 😀 if we, a quorate 4-out-of-5 RA enter a 7 day vote today, 2 hours before polls close ...
[2008/04/26 9:42] You: ... then 7 days later, we get 4 of 5 votes in a 7-member RA ...
[2008/04/26 9:42] You: 🙂 I have two questions
[2008/04/26 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn 's mind explodes.
[2008/04/26 9:42] Beathan Vale: ah -- I see
[2008/04/26 9:42] Beathan Vale: yeah -- that is a serious problem -- better to just wait a week
[2008/04/26 9:42] You: Indeed. Keep the shrapnel please 😀 ... (1) can the new 2 vote? and
[2008/04/26 9:43] You: (2) wouldn't the 2/3rds be 5, then, anyway, due to the 7 seats been filled? 😀
[2008/04/26 9:43] You: yah
[2008/04/26 9:43] You: you may withdraw your motion, or we can vote on it 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i need a few seconds sorry
[2008/04/26 9:43] Beathan Vale: yes -- but I think that the SC is ready to rule that 2/3 is 5 in any case
[2008/04/26 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: can we hold a second
[2008/04/26 9:43] You: NP - I think we all do
[2008/04/26 9:44] Beathan Vale: I would rather not have the leadership of the RA held in the balance on a Cosntitutional test case
[2008/04/26 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i would
[2008/04/26 9:44] Beathan Vale: lol
[2008/04/26 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: well i would
[2008/04/26 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn would side with Beathan too
[2008/04/26 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and why, Princess??
[2008/04/26 9:45] You: 🙂 then you can each vote differently 🙂 May I suggest that Beathan, then Prin, then any citizens, speak for up to 2 mins., then we vote?
[2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i think its a good bil
[2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and i dont want to second guess SC and not do it because of that
[2008/04/26 9:45] You: the motion being, 7 day hold
[2008/04/26 9:45] Beathan Vale: I withdraw my motion
[2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and i KNOW that it is exactly what sonja sings all day
[2008/04/26 9:45] You: ok
[2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: that the people get the power
[2008/04/26 9:45] Beathan Vale: let's just vote on the bill -- it will be confusin no matter what we do
[2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: DPU and sonja are for letting the ppl have a say
[2008/04/26 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and this does that
[2008/04/26 9:46] You: That would work
[2008/04/26 9:46] MT Lundquist: ok i propose the bill
[2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: thats why
[2008/04/26 9:46] You: either we vote now - or not, kids. MT or Prin, do you wish to move the adoption of MT's bill at this time?
[2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: but im only one person
[2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: well sort of two
[2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: but really one
[2008/04/26 9:46] Beathan Vale: and if we can't pass it now -- for some reason -- we can revise it and try again
[2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe three or four
[2008/04/26 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/04/26 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/04/26 9:47] Jamie Palisades smiles: ah - we have amotion and second (perks up)
[2008/04/26 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i said second
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: it was just in a bunch of number talk
[2008/04/26 9:48] You: any one wish to speak further to it? I do, but will wait my turn if there are others
[2008/04/26 9:48] You: 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: well i want to say that i think this is crucial to our survival and our call to make sure the population
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: has a great deal of power choice and control over the government
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: this is a movee,ent in that direction
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: it follows the evolution of CDS
[2008/04/26 9:48] You: (me notes Prin, then Gwyn, then me, so far)
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: the old way is archaic
[2008/04/26 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: in my opinion
[2008/04/26 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: and the new way takes in to consideration our new found participation
[2008/04/26 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: stable membership
[2008/04/26 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: and growth
[2008/04/26 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: .. ill stop
[2008/04/26 9:49] You: TY. Gwyn?
[2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I just wanted to underline,
[2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that no matter what gets decided today (or not)
[2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's ALWAYS better to have a decision by the RA
[2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which becomes an amendment -- or law
[2008/04/26 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: instead of relying on the SC to "interpret" things.
[2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: uh um
[2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: ALWAYS
[2008/04/26 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So as a matter of principle, I'd always recommend voting on laws/amendments instead of leaving things "Undefined"....
[2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: is never true
[2008/04/26 9:51] You: sh 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, always, Princess. The will of the people should be more impºortant than the will of a few 😉
[2008/04/26 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that's all, thank you Mr LRA 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:51] Beathan Vale: in this case, "Always" might be true
[2008/04/26 9:51] You: others? Prin?
[2008/04/26 9:51] You: Beathan? MT?
[2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: the SC should not be there then? no i think clarifying things is sometimes necessary
[2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and i think that her assumptions are false
[2008/04/26 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: so her statement is false too
[2008/04/26 9:52] Beathan Vale: TP - necessary -- but it is better if the RA is clear and complete
[2008/04/26 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: we are not saying that the RA wont decide this
[2008/04/26 9:52] Beathan Vale: interpretation of the law is always more messy than law making
[2008/04/26 9:52] Moon Adamant: her?
[2008/04/26 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that's a logical fallacy, Princess, if my assumptions are false, everything which I say is true 😉
[2008/04/26 9:52] Moon Adamant: sorry, who?
[2008/04/26 9:52] Yogeswari Padar is confused
[2008/04/26 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I'll leave the mathematical proof as an exercise 🙂 )
[2008/04/26 9:52] You: 🙂 a little free chat here probably is no harm, but does anyone have any *new* points relevant to the motion?
[2008/04/26 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i think you are being quite disrespectful gwyen
[2008/04/26 9:53] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/04/26 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: and inapporpriate and i call fro a
[2008/04/26 9:53] Beathan Vale: call the question
[2008/04/26 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: warneing of her
[2008/04/26 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: im in an RA seat and i expect you to not talk to me that way here
[2008/04/26 9:53] You: Prin I could not tell if you had more to say about the motion, ...
[2008/04/26 9:53] You: but on the point of order
[2008/04/26 9:53] You: I thikn we can stop now without action, if we all stop not 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont but i dont apprecaitae that from the gallery
[2008/04/26 9:53] You: now
[2008/04/26 9:53] Moon Adamant has heard no unpoliteness
[2008/04/26 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: and you too moon
[2008/04/26 9:54] Yogeswari Padar hasn't either
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: OK. Prin;s objection to Gwyn's comment is noted. Can we move on?
[2008/04/26 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: that faction knows no way to act but to attack
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: ...
[2008/04/26 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: sick of it
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: ...
[2008/04/26 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: on
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: right, thx
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: I woud like to speak on the motion
[2008/04/26 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affirmativ ... ve_premise (I can't argue against facts)
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:54] You: Gwyn hush
[2008/04/26 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:55] You: smile not, smart pants, you shouldn;t interrupt either 🙂
[2008/04/26 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's called "defense of honour", Mr LRA.
[2008/04/26 9:55] Justice Soothsayer: back
[2008/04/26 9:55] You: well hm - do we have the Code Duello in force yet? .....
[2008/04/26 9:55] You: OK
[2008/04/26 9:55] You: Justice -
[2008/04/26 9:55] Justice Soothsayer: yes, Jamie?
[2008/04/26 9:55] Justice Soothsayer scrolls back
[2008/04/26 9:56] You: we have a motion and second to approve MT's bill, and you had comment son the forum about it. Do you wish to speak to therm? 2 mins - I will wait my turn, as you were gone.
[2008/04/26 9:56] Justice Soothsayer: thanks Jamie
[2008/04/26 9:56] You: then I;d like to talk. Then I;d like to get other comments, and *vote*
[2008/04/26 9:56] You: go pls
[2008/04/26 9:56] Justice Soothsayer: I will refer all to my forum post. I think this should be 2 separate bills.
[2008/04/26 9:56] Justice Soothsayer: At this time, it might make sense to move forward with the LRA bill.
[2008/04/26 9:57] Justice Soothsayer: But direct election of the chancellor is such a fundamental altering of our representative democracy that I think it would make more sense for a fuller debate
[2008/04/26 9:57] Justice Soothsayer: engaging all of the citizenry.
[2008/04/26 9:58] Justice Soothsayer: And giving the proponents to fully explain what may be broken that should be fixed.
[2008/04/26 9:58] Justice Soothsayer: Thanks for listening.
[2008/04/26 9:58] Justice Soothsayer returns the floor to Jamie
[2008/04/26 9:58] You: thx
[2008/04/26 9:58] You: OK. My comments - noting that we are over time, but I won;t aks the RA to extend formally unless anyone else has comments after mine, and we just have our vote and close it out.
[2008/04/26 9:59] You: I like the bill. I think we should go in that direction. But I think it's unseemly to make a big big set of constitutional changes like that *just* before we have our 2 new members seated. Not illegeal! We DO have that power in my view. Just unwise, as a policy matter.
[2008/04/26 9:59] You: it might *look* to some like we're playing keep-away with it and keeping the newly seated members from voicing views.
[2008/04/26 9:59] You: So I will abstain when we vote - which has this affect
[2008/04/26 9:59] You: 1. The thre eof you still can pass this now
[2008/04/26 9:59] You: 2. It might be a valid constitutional amendment
[2008/04/26 10:00] You: 3. Though some troglo - er - conservativ - er - long time membes may argue to the SC differently
[2008/04/26 10:00] You: 4 I think they'd be wrong 🙂 but I'm not on the SC - or even the frctaion of it that would, in any decent world, not be recused
[2008/04/26 10:00] You: and finally
[2008/04/26 10:01] MT Lundquist: if you are about to abstain Jamie then i with draw the bill this week and ask that it is considered next weekwhen your objections are removed by events
[2008/04/26 10:01] You: That's fine with me, but up to you
[2008/04/26 10:01] Beathan Vale: good
[2008/04/26 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: thank u
[2008/04/26 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i would likek to speak still to what justice says
[2008/04/26 10:01] Beathan Vale: but I do want to address Justice's comments briefly before we move on
[2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: and that one, someone voting for RA seats.. will not necesarrily vote teh samae faction in a vote for chancellor and infact the chancelor can be no faction so that point is moot
[2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: also they are intwined cos one takes power away and one gives it back
[2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: done bV
[2008/04/26 10:02] You: ok then
[2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: hehee
[2008/04/26 10:02] You: any more chat on this item at this time?
[2008/04/26 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: bv does
[2008/04/26 10:02] Beathan Vale: the measures are intertwined at my insistence for these reasons
[2008/04/26 10:02] Beathan Vale: yes -- me
[2008/04/26 10:03] You: And Prin, right?
[2008/04/26 10:03] You: BV first please
[2008/04/26 10:03] Beathan Vale: First, with regard to direct election of chancellor -- this is not an undebated item
[2008/04/26 10:03] You: oh hang on - sorry 😛 I forgot - we are way over time. Any RA memebr object to a 5 minute extenion? (If not, please talk BV)
[2008/04/26 10:03] Beathan Vale: by my reckoning, we have actively, as a community, debated this change for three RA terms
[2008/04/26 10:04] Beathan Vale: the need for the change became most apparent this term -- when there appears to have been some strange machinations and unseemly horsetrading in the Chancellor election
[2008/04/26 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/04/26 10:04] Beathan Vale: not sure what happened -- but it seemed strange
[2008/04/26 10:04] Beathan Vale: but the larger point it is that historically the LRA has had the role of elected head of state -- has the best claim to an electoral mandate
[2008/04/26 10:05] Beathan Vale: that is an important role -- but changin the way the LRA is selected will remove tht role
[2008/04/26 10:05] MT Lundquist: raises hand
[2008/04/26 10:05] Beathan Vale: we should not remove it without replacing it -- thus my insistence of linking the LRA change with the direct election of Chancellor
[2008/04/26 10:05] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/04/26 10:05] You: (I have BV, then Prin, then MT)
[2008/04/26 10:05] You: Prin?
[2008/04/26 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: im done
[2008/04/26 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i did mine while you were thinking
[2008/04/26 10:05] You: kk
[2008/04/26 10:05] You: 🙂 MT
[2008/04/26 10:06] You: anything more?
[2008/04/26 10:06] MT Lundquist: a final point the current election of the chancellor is made by ra mambers
[2008/04/26 10:06] MT Lundquist: these members are by definition faction members
[2008/04/26 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: but
[2008/04/26 10:07] MT Lundquist: the election of the chancellor can have non faction participants
[2008/04/26 10:07] MT Lundquist: so i believe that moving to direct elections will allow better opportunities for independant candidates
[2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: well its more than that
[2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: its a fatal flaw
[2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: it means that the independent by justices logic
[2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: has NO
[2008/04/26 10:08] You: any more on this one?
[2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: NO chance of becomeing chancellor
[2008/04/26 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: so it MUST be tpu the peopel
[2008/04/26 10:09] You: sorry 🙂 can we limit any further to 60 secs? we atre way over time
[2008/04/26 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: the ppl must vote for chancellor if we have ppl who can run for chanceloor who are not factin meembers
[2008/04/26 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/04/26 10:09] You: ok
[2008/04/26 10:09] You: next item hm?
----
[2008/04/26 10:09] You: 3
[2008/04/26 10:09] You: conflicts of interest
[2008/04/26 10:10] You: we have a number of threads going, let me just indetiofy them
[2008/04/26 10:10] You: 1. a PMRobert Walpole citizen bill, discussed at 12 APril meeting
[2008/04/26 10:10] You: and Sonja made the point then that it might actually be 2 bills
[2008/04/26 10:10] You: 2. My proposal also mentioned them
[2008/04/26 10:10] You: then
[2008/04/26 10:11] You: (URI in the agenda today)
[2008/04/26 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: well i have a problem with term linits
[2008/04/26 10:11] You: 3. a comment from the debates -
[2008/04/26 10:11] You: about maybe changing the oath of office.
[2008/04/26 10:11] You: OK done with the landscape. Comments? Motions? Prin?
[2008/04/26 10:11] You: comments on term limits?
[2008/04/26 10:11] Moon Adamant: afk
[2008/04/26 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: well
[2008/04/26 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i am not really sure about this for all of us.. id like to know what pl think.. my faction has them already
[2008/04/26 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: term limits i mean
[2008/04/26 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: the rest i am very good with
[2008/04/26 10:13] You: If you are done, let me ask - is anyone planning to ask for a bill to be brought by motion today? I'm not - and if no-one is this, can be a short chat 🙂
[2008/04/26 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: i think the limitation of switching roles
[2008/04/26 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: like i think that what gwyen and justice just did is awful
[2008/04/26 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: and completly morally unethical
[2008/04/26 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: and also should be illegal
[2008/04/26 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/04/26 10:14] Moon Adamant: back
[2008/04/26 10:14] You: I'd expect they may wish to respond -- just to be clear, you mean running for RA while sitting on SC, I assume
[2008/04/26 10:14] Beathan Vale: I have one comment
[2008/04/26 10:14] You: Is Prin done?
[2008/04/26 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: she is for now
[2008/04/26 10:15] You: OK, BV?
[2008/04/26 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (me next?)
[2008/04/26 10:15] You: (OK)
[2008/04/26 10:15] Beathan Vale: I oppose passing the commulative mandates bill as presented until after this election -- as doing so would cast doubt on most of the candidacies
[2008/04/26 10:16] Beathan Vale: I also don't think that it is such an awful thing for a person holding one office to run for another -- that seems routine -- although such person should recuse from official acts concerning the election in which they are a candidate
[2008/04/26 10:16] Beathan Vale: however, I also see no problem with putting the kind of restrictions Walpole proposes in place -- in the future
[2008/04/26 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: but they didnt
[2008/04/26 10:17] You: (I think Beathan's still talking)
[2008/04/26 10:17] Beathan Vale: In the passed -- we have had too much turnover in government; we appear more stable at the moment -- so I see no reason not to create a revolving door process
[2008/04/26 10:17] Beathan Vale: that is all
[2008/04/26 10:17] You: (I have Gwyn, then Prin if she has more.)
[2008/04/26 10:17] You: Gwyneth?
[2008/04/26 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well
[2008/04/26 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm not sure if I have much to add after Beathan's comment, but basically:
[2008/04/26 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) For the record, nothing forbids people to *quit* one branch of Government to go to another
[2008/04/26 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if they feel they can do more productive work there.
[2008/04/26 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both Justice and myself resigned from the SC.
[2008/04/26 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And so did Pat, before he became LRA
[2008/04/26 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi hold us her hand
[2008/04/26 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) For the record too, I'm also fully supportive of better rules
[2008/04/26 10:19] Beathan Vale: actaully Pat overlapped as a nonvoting member of the SC for quite a spell while on the RA
[2008/04/26 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to clearly define how "terms" are counted
[2008/04/26 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, technically, yes, beathan, but the SC did not met
[2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 3) my only concern is just one: the elections are over in an hour and a half
[2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: eliminating candidates one hour and a half before the polls close is a BIT out of order 🙂
[2008/04/26 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and .. indeed you and just ice qit but only AFTER you had voted for laws that ALLOWED yu and your faction to do what you did.. and mde the laws to make it happen
[2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But, then again, the RA has all the power to do it.
[2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for interrupting me again, Princess. I appreciate it.
[2008/04/26 10:20] You: ...
[2008/04/26 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And thanks, LRA, I'm finished.
[2008/04/26 10:21] You: Interruptions do see to be a plague here
[2008/04/26 10:21] You: and as Prin points out I;m not immune either
[2008/04/26 10:21] You: any other comments on this?
[2008/04/26 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: for the record the citizens need to be clear and research your "facts" gwyen
[2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: you were in the SC making rules as you were at the same time .. you
[2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: you were listining in on faction meetings voting
[2008/04/26 10:22] Beathan Vale: I want to propose an amendment removing paragraph 3 from the noncummulation bill
[2008/04/26 10:22] You: hmmmm
[2008/04/26 10:22] Moon Adamant: that's a serious accusation
[2008/04/26 10:22] You: hang on all for a sec please
[2008/04/26 10:22] You: ty
[2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: and then making rules that let you run for a seat that many think you should not be ale to do
[2008/04/26 10:22] You: now
[2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i know
[2008/04/26 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: i only said
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: rsearch
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: dont believe blindly
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen has twisted some things
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: lsten moon
[2008/04/26 10:23] Beathan Vale: I want to replace it with "this bill shall come into effect at the end of the current term of the RA; all terms of office shall coincide with the term in the RA
[2008/04/26 10:23] You: Prin is noting a personal objection to anyone who acts as SC election adminbistrator and RA candidate in a ballot simultaneously ...
[2008/04/26 10:23] You: I think that observation of Prin's is perfectly appropriate in a legislative body
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: now that pat is gone.. i have the.............
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: most votes by citizens, i bevlie i am called to say what i think
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i am supposed to say what i think
[2008/04/26 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: and thats what i think
[2008/04/26 10:24] You: but let's not beat it to death by reptetition, or departing from polite tones
[2008/04/26 10:24] You: I thikn Prin's had her say
[2008/04/26 10:24] Moon Adamant: i can but agree with the LRA
[2008/04/26 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who did "acts as SC election adminbistrator and RA candidate in a ballot simultaneously"?
[2008/04/26 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: its the truth that gwyen was in the SC and in the faction causeing our disruption this term making rules that allower HER to run for RA
[2008/04/26 10:24] You: and I invite Gwyn or Justice tpo say anythign else by way of appropriaet rebuttal if they wish - then let;s get to process and BV's point
[2008/04/26 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: was that false gwyen.. no it wasnt
[2008/04/26 10:24] You: Prin can you please say yuor final word now and then indicate you;re done
[2008/04/26 10:25] You: (my alternative is to go to 60 sec time limits and ejections .. of anyone 🙂 ... or ask the RA to adjourn immediately)
[2008/04/26 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i hope all the citizens know the truth and seeek it out thats all im done
[2008/04/26 10:25] You: Thanks.
[2008/04/26 10:25] You: Gwyn did you have something else brief?
[2008/04/26 10:25] Justice Soothsayer: thanks, Jamie. I'll just say that Gwyn and I both became candidates AFTER the SC decided the challenge to the by-election - which, by the way, we upheld what the RA did. Nothing further from me.
[2008/04/26 10:25] You: acknowl, Justice
[2008/04/26 10:26] Jamie Palisades waits for more, and sees none
[2008/04/26 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd like just to know who was at the same time a candidate for the RA and a supervisor of the elections... that's all from me too.
[2008/04/26 10:26] You: OK. I'd like that to go to Forums please
[2008/04/26 10:26] Beathan Vale: Gwyn -- they do that all the time in Zimbabwe
[2008/04/26 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks.
[2008/04/26 10:26] You: BV. you proposed an amendment
[2008/04/26 10:26] You: but we have no motion
[2008/04/26 10:26] Beathan Vale: lol -- Florida and Ohio too
[2008/04/26 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: that is an irrelevant point to ward off your truth of what you did
[2008/04/26 10:26] You: so
[2008/04/26 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, what *exactly* am I being accused of?
[2008/04/26 10:26] Jamie Palisades notes a need for fire extinguishers
[2008/04/26 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: not accused of but the FACT
[2008/04/26 10:27] You: excuse me all
[2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: that you were in teh SC, and the faction making rules.. oh gosh just read back
[2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: nothing
[2008/04/26 10:27] Beathan Vale: but -- luckily -- our folks are too busy and too ethical
[2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: an appearance of conflict of interest ok
[2008/04/26 10:27] Beathan Vale: (almost did a Freudian slip and said "too busty"
[2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: stop peeking beathan
[2008/04/26 10:27] You: Each of Gwyn and Prin is one more out-of-order snipe away from me asking the RA to censure you 🙂 if they refuse, I will simply leave the rom and wish you the best
[2008/04/26 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: im done
[2008/04/26 10:27] You: I'd advise being slow to comment
[2008/04/26 10:28] You: thank you Prin
[2008/04/26 10:28] You: Gwyn, you have the floor if you are NOT done
[2008/04/26 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd like to know what the "facts" are of which I'm "accused" of.
[2008/04/26 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since either these "facts" exist, and then someone should mention them to the SC,
[2008/04/26 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or they don't and then I'll have to file a suit for libel and defamation 😉
[2008/04/26 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi holds up her hand
[2008/04/26 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's all.
[2008/04/26 10:29] You: This is not a court, so my advice is, do not expect resolution here. You disagree. Fine. Take action as you see fit - elsewhere.
[2008/04/26 10:29] You: and Gwyn is done.
[2008/04/26 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
[2008/04/26 10:29] You: More from you that's in order, Prin?
[2008/04/26 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: the point is you WERE the SC.
[2008/04/26 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: and id like to end it, make this go to forums
[2008/04/26 10:30] You: Seems to me you two are disagreeing on several factual matters - which we will (ahem) NOT resolve here. May we close this topic now.
[2008/04/26 10:30] You: We are over time on the agenda item.
[2008/04/26 10:30] You: Would any RA members object to us taking 3 more minutes to process Beathan's idea about a motion or amendment?
[2008/04/26 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: sok
[2008/04/26 10:31] You: if no objetcion, BV - you were amending, but there's no motion. Did you want to move to adopt a piece of the PMRW bill now?
[2008/04/26 10:31] Beathan Vale: I move to amend 3 of the cumm mandate bill
[2008/04/26 10:32] Beathan Vale: we cannot disqualify candidates an hour befroe the voting closes -- that is crazy -- and disenfranchises many citizens
[2008/04/26 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: oh i agree
[2008/04/26 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: but we can keep this abuse happening again
[2008/04/26 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: from happening
[2008/04/26 10:32] Beathan Vale: we can have this going forward -- and we can agree to disagree about what happened -- but let's have the process play out
[2008/04/26 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/26 10:33] You: hmmm - so for clarity, you are moiving that we ADOPT an amended form of the Non-Cumulation of Mandates Act ... which is at ...
[2008/04/26 10:33] You: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1766#p10781
[2008/04/26 10:33] You: but with its para 3 (on effective date) changes so that it only takes effect after the current by-election results seat RA members. Yes?
[2008/04/26 10:34] Beathan Vale: yes -- there was some confusion about the rest of the text
[2008/04/26 10:35] You: (I looked at the thread and saw no other stated explicit amendments to that text, shrug - so I guess we are going with it as written, except for your effective date amendment)
[2008/04/26 10:35] You: ok that's a motion. Do we have a second?
[2008/04/26 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i would like to talk about the term limit part
[2008/04/26 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean not talk but listen
[2008/04/26 10:35] You: hm well - that's not the current motion
[2008/04/26 10:35] You: can we do Beathan's part first?
[2008/04/26 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/26 10:35] You: anyone second it?
[2008/04/26 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/04/26 10:35] You: OK
[2008/04/26 10:36] You: Discussion - on the overlapping-roles bill, basically
[2008/04/26 10:36] You: I have a Q 🙂
[2008/04/26 10:36] You: is it a constitutional amendment?
[2008/04/26 10:36] MT Lundquist: i would say so
[2008/04/26 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: it isnt mentioned in the constitution so why
[2008/04/26 10:37] Jamie Palisades gets his lawyer-carnivore thing on and smiles
[2008/04/26 10:37] You: I suspect it should not be viewed as constitutional
[2008/04/26 10:37] You: but that's up to our -- er -- SC 🙂 ...
[2008/04/26 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/26 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn looks for Claude 😉
[2008/04/26 10:38] You: ... who at present has sort of an organic, flexible view about 'founding documents' and what contradicts the spirit of some faint idea from 2006 ... in my personal view 🙂
[2008/04/26 10:38] Beathan Vale: For clarity -- I think that the amended bill would read: Limitation of Terms Act (Second Draft) 1. No citizen shall serve longer than two consecutive terms in any of the following offices: Member of the RA, Chancellorship, Member of the Architectural Control Department (ACD) (if any); Member of the Chamber of Commerce (if any); or Marshall of the Peace. 2. Members of the RA, SC, Chancellorship, Members of the Architectural Control Department (ACD) (if any); Members of the Chamber of Commerce (if any); or Marshalls of the Peace may not stand for another office enumerated in Paragraph 1 while sitting in one such office or in the term immediately following their departure from such office. 3. This bill shall come into effect after the end end of the current RA session; all terms of government service shall coincide with the term of the RA " -- or somesuch
[2008/04/26 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: how do we define a term
[2008/04/26 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: if i serve a week and quit
[2008/04/26 10:38] Beathan Vale: Also -- we should take out ACD -- as that is no longer part of the private dev bill
[2008/04/26 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: is that a term
[2008/04/26 10:38] Jamie Palisades lives in a nation with a 'written' constitution as opposed to the tribal, it's-in-my-head UK version
[2008/04/26 10:39] Beathan Vale: term is the entire RA session -- not the mere part of the term any givern person chooses to sit
[2008/04/26 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: well i know the person who wrote it meant othewise
[2008/04/26 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: i spoke with him abou this
[2008/04/26 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we have to define it
[2008/04/26 10:40] You: sooo
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: a faction could ..have ppl serve half terms
[2008/04/26 10:40] Beathan Vale: serve any part of a term ...
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: and keep the same ppl in over and over
[2008/04/26 10:40] You: we have the bill text from BV (thank you)
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you beathan
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i think it has to be any part
[2008/04/26 10:40] You: it's been moved and seconded
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: but i dotn think the probalem is any one office
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: its moving to a new one
[2008/04/26 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: so you cant padd the RA and move to the SC and rule on things we voted on
[2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: take what i saw , in my opinon what gwyen and justice did
[2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: what if we pass a law this week
[2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: then i move to the SC to vote on its effietiveness
[2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: thatts the problem
[2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: not beathan being in RA five terms
[2008/04/26 10:41] You: personally I thik that since it does NOT affect anycurrently seated positions until after the current electiuon cycle is completed, it;s a good test case for our RA and the SC's viwes about how it wants to read our acts 🙂
[2008/04/26 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: its mving from one positoin to the tnext
[2008/04/26 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: lets say i make a bill vote on it, then go ot the sC the next week and rulle what i voted on and worte was good.. thats the problem and thats wrong
[2008/04/26 10:42] You: if we vote here and give if 4 votes, it will pass RA - and then SC will be forced (if it acts at all) to both decide whether it's constitutional ... and if so .... whether a 5 member RA can pass a constitutional amendment by 4 votes 🙂
[2008/04/26 10:42] You: I ttink I am agreeing completely with Prin
[2008/04/26 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/04/26 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: lets vote then
[2008/04/26 10:43] You: let me just read BV's text one more time for boobytraps - while I do, any other comments?
[2008/04/26 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: can you say booby
[2008/04/26 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: or is it a trap
[2008/04/26 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/04/26 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: dont eject me
[2008/04/26 10:43] You: ha ha 😛 to you Senator Marilyn Monroe
[2008/04/26 10:43] You: or is that a Garbo deal?
[2008/04/26 10:44] Beathan Vale: why is English slang for breasts so often the name of birds? booby and tit ... hmmm
[2008/04/26 10:44] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/04/26 10:44] You: no, no, short witticisms that do not attack people aren't out of order
[2008/04/26 10:44] You: hell, arguably without them CDS would grind to a halt
[2008/04/26 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: put your lips together and blow
[2008/04/26 10:44] You: sigh
[2008/04/26 10:44] MT Lundquist: theres also great tit
[2008/04/26 10:44] You: siiiiiiigh
[2008/04/26 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
[2008/04/26 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: what>
[2008/04/26 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/04/26 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: omg
[2008/04/26 10:44] MT Lundquist: a bird
[2008/04/26 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: are you calling me a bird
[2008/04/26 10:45] You: OK I read it. I have a question. As restated by Beathan this DOES include term limits, yes?
[2008/04/26 10:45] Beathan Vale: yes — term limits were the core of the proposal
[2008/04/26 10:45] Beathan Vale: I have some heartburn about that — but I’m willing to try it
[2008/04/26 10:45] Jamie Palisades rifles back to see who spoke in favor of, and against, term limits
[2008/04/26 10:45] You: may I comment?
[2008/04/26 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: yes jamie
[2008/04/26 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: you may speak mr. lra
[2008/04/26 10:46] You: on limits (a) I fear that too, MT, (b) they seem on balance to have more potential for harm than good, and (c) I think, if we slay the overlapping roles dragon, term limits aren’t really the problem.
[2008/04/26 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: nods
[2008/04/26 10:46] MT Lundquist: i agree
[2008/04/26 10:46] You: I do not want to tell EITHER newbies or longtime leaders that they aren’t welcome
[2008/04/26 10:47] You: the latter seems to be sort of inherent in the term limits
[2008/04/26 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/04/26 10:47] Popcorn Box : Butter & Salt mmmmm!
[2008/04/26 10:47] You: so I move to amendm to delete para 1
[2008/04/26 10:47] You: (Hey, up to y’all)
[2008/04/26 10:47] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/04/26 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: yahooo
[2008/04/26 10:47] You: OK. Debate on deleting term limits — for now — so we just would have a no-overlpas bill?
[2008/04/26 10:48] You: we’re over time but I think all are satisfied with what we’re spending time on, unless someone objects
[2008/04/26 10:48] You: no comment son amendment? Just vote?
[2008/04/26 10:48] Beathan Vale: second
[2008/04/26 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* on a *slight* comment
[2008/04/26 10:48] Beathan Vale: if term limits are a good idea — we can pass them later
[2008/04/26 10:48] You: OK, I have a motion and two seconds 🙂 and Gwyn? 60 secs?
[2008/04/26 10:49] You: on the amendment
[2008/04/26 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On “3. This bill shall come into effect after the end end of the current RA session; all terms of government service shall coincide with the term of the RA “”
[2008/04/26 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: actually, the SC has “staggered” elections for Dean — deliberately so
[2008/04/26 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi shouts: hi bells.. hurray
[2008/04/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. technically, the SC should be launching *now* the election for the new Dean
[2008/04/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (mid-term)
[2008/04/26 10:50] Beathan Vale: I had in mind the position of member of SC – -not the internal role of Dean
[2008/04/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: how will this proposed bill affect the terms of the other branches then?
[2008/04/26 10:50] Beathan Vale: but the SC may be a special case for all terms
[2008/04/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in that case, the bill cannot contradict the Constitution…
[2008/04/26 10:50] Beathan Vale: true
[2008/04/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Except where stated otherwise, 3. This bill shall come into effect after the end end of the current RA session; all terms of government service shall coincide with the term of the RA ”
[2008/04/26 10:51] Beathan Vale: so — how about “except for the SC, all terms of governement”
[2008/04/26 10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or probably:” 3. This bill shall come into effect after the end end of the current RA session; all terms of government service shall coincide with the term of the RA except where stated otherwise”
[2008/04/26 10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, Beathan, that works too.
[2008/04/26 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: honeslty i think the whole thing is about movement from one branch to another and not in one branch
[2008/04/26 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: and it should include the SC
[2008/04/26 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: im against this as it is actually
[2008/04/26 10:52] MT Lundquist: i disagree with all terms of service coinciding
[2008/04/26 10:52] You: 🙂 more discussion?
[2008/04/26 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: nucare is
[2008/04/26 10:52] Justice Soothsayer raises hand
[2008/04/26 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then it’s a Constitutional amendment 🙂
[2008/04/26 10:52] You: Gwyn: done?
[2008/04/26 10:52] Beathan Vale: the movement prohibition is not changed — only the length of term provision
[2008/04/26 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Jamie, thank you
[2008/04/26 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: and the faction that wrote the bill isn’t here
[2008/04/26 10:52] You: BV did you have more?
[2008/04/26 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we should wait
[2008/04/26 10:52] You: (then Justice then Prin)
[2008/04/26 10:52] Beathan Vale: let’s put this one off a week and I will draft it based on the comments and amendments
[2008/04/26 10:53] You: OK. Let’s take Justice’s comment?
[2008/04/26 10:53] Justice Soothsayer: Much of the discussion of this bill has been about people moving from the SC to the RA.
[2008/04/26 10:54] Justice Soothsayer: I’d like you to consider the impact of restricting the movement in the other direction.
[2008/04/26 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: RA to SC actually
[2008/04/26 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: well thats what i was talking about justice that was my example
[2008/04/26 10:54] Justice Soothsayer: The current (second draft) would restrict the ability of RA members to join the SC without a cooling-off term
[2008/04/26 10:55] Justice Soothsayer: But I think that recent legislative experience is actually quite helpful to the SC
[2008/04/26 10:55] Justice Soothsayer: If the concern i about voting on legislation in the SC that one has voted upon in the RA, then just pass a bill or rule on recusals.
[2008/04/26 10:56] Justice Soothsayer: I think we should look for the least restrictive means to achieve our goals, not the most restrictive.
[2008/04/26 10:56] Justice Soothsayer bows towards the LRA as a sign that he’s done.
[2008/04/26 10:56] You: done J?
[2008/04/26 10:56] You: thx
[2008/04/26 10:56] Justice Soothsayer: /salute
[2008/04/26 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/04/26 10:57] You: Beathan – you are withdrawing your notion in order to wait a week?
[2008/04/26 10:57] You: do I have that right?
[2008/04/26 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i want to say that we in nucare do want the cooling off period in place
[2008/04/26 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: asap
[2008/04/26 10:58] You: BV?
[2008/04/26 10:58] Beathan Vale: things move so quickly here — that a one term cooling off period does not mean that tha person lacks recent legislative experience
[2008/04/26 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed
[2008/04/26 10:58] MT Lundquist: a term is only 6 months
[2008/04/26 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: make it three months then
[2008/04/26 10:58] Beathan Vale: that said — there has been a tradition of movement from the RA to the SC — retiring RA members go to the SC — and that has been very good
[2008/04/26 10:59] Beathan Vale: ::shrug:: I will try to draft a compromise proposal if we agree to put this over a week
[2008/04/26 10:59] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/04/26 10:59] You: sooo
[2008/04/26 11:00] You: BV
[2008/04/26 11:00] You: motion wthdrawn or not?
[2008/04/26 11:01] You: I think we had a motion – I need to do *something* with it 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:01] Beathan Vale: well — yes — I withdraw my motion and move that we continue debate one week
[2008/04/26 11:01] You: ah OK 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:01] You: is there any objection to that?
[2008/04/26 11:01] MT Lundquist: no lets do your motion jamie
[2008/04/26 11:01] MT Lundquist: which gives a basis for bv
[2008/04/26 11:02] You: hm
[2008/04/26 11:02] You: lookinmg at chat 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:03] You: ok we have my motion …
[2008/04/26 11:03] You: BV wants to delay, MT wants to go 🙂 let’s vote, hm?
[2008/04/26 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:04] Dalton Dreamscape: Hi
[2008/04/26 11:04] You: members please state their vote 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:04] DivineLolita Demonia: hi
[2008/04/26 11:04] MT Lundquist: hi dalton
[2008/04/26 11:04] Justice Soothsayer: voting on whether to vote, or voting on whether to delay the vote, or voting on the substantive bill?
[2008/04/26 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Dalton & Divine 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:04] Dalton Dreamscape: How goes it?
[2008/04/26 11:04] You: hush all please 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:04] DivineLolita Demonia: just exploring andyou?
[2008/04/26 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn hopes that the RA members know on *what* exactly they’re going to vote now…
[2008/04/26 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: did you get a toga
[2008/04/26 11:05] DivineLolita Demonia: you look awesome
[2008/04/26 11:05] DivineLolita Demonia: giggles
[2008/04/26 11:05] DivineLolita Demonia: awww.. thanks you 😉
[2008/04/26 11:05] You: sigh
[2008/04/26 11:05] Dalton Dreamscape:
[2008/04/26 11:06] You: 🙂 RA members only, for the moment please
[2008/04/26 11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: giggles
[2008/04/26 11:06] You: we have the following motion to vote on
[2008/04/26 11:07] You: my amendment to BV’s motion to adopt PMRW’s noncumulation bill
[2008/04/26 11:07] You: which – before i made my amendment
[2008/04/26 11:08] You: has been amended to change its effective date
[2008/04/26 11:08] You: so
[2008/04/26 11:08] You: my motion would amend it by removing the term limits paragraph
[2008/04/26 11:08] You: let us vote on that now. I vote aye.
[2008/04/26 11:09] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/04/26 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/04/26 11:09] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/04/26 11:09] You: ok
[2008/04/26 11:09] You: it’s amended
[2008/04/26 11:10] You: are we read to vote on the pmrw BILL as AMENDED?
[2008/04/26 11:10] You: *ready
[2008/04/26 11:10] You: (I note we’ve over time)
[2008/04/26 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: lets wait
[2008/04/26 11:10] Beathan Vale: might was well — actually
[2008/04/26 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i wanna see the o
[2008/04/26 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: oh ok
[2008/04/26 11:11] MT Lundquist: is para 3 as written by pmr?
[2008/04/26 11:11] You: hm? Do I hear a cosensus to put the amended bill on hold for now?
[2008/04/26 11:11] You: No, MT, Beathan moved it to be effective after the by-election (see transcript above)
[2008/04/26 11:11] Beathan Vale: no — amended out my my amendment — JP just expanded the scope of the amendment
[2008/04/26 11:11] You: put on hold? or vote now?
[2008/04/26 11:11] Beathan Vale: let’s vote now
[2008/04/26 11:11] MT Lundquist: when did we vote on that?
[2008/04/26 11:12] Moon Adamant sighs
[2008/04/26 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* deeper
[2008/04/26 11:12] You: MT, Beathan’s originl motion on this topic offered the proposal WITH the change.
[2008/04/26 11:12] Beathan Vale: but we do need to change the last bit to clarify that the length of term does not effect the SC
[2008/04/26 11:12] Beathan Vale: otherwise it is a Constitu amendment — and we want to avoid that
[2008/04/26 11:12] You: I suggest that the number of questions from RA members suggests both a need for more work on this and – well – a need for closer attention.
[2008/04/26 11:12] Beathan Vale: OK — 1 week dealy
[2008/04/26 11:12] Beathan Vale: dealy
[2008/04/26 11:13] Beathan Vale: delay dammit
[2008/04/26 11:13] Beathan Vale: lol
[2008/04/26 11:13] You: I propose we hold the bill and not act otday, as there seems lilttle certainty among the members about its exact contents
[2008/04/26 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: who cant read it
[2008/04/26 11:13] You: if there are no objections we’re don with that agenda item.
[2008/04/26 11:13] Moon Adamant: oh?
[2008/04/26 11:13] Beathan Vale: I move that TP decide on an outfit and stick to it
[2008/04/26 11:13] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/04/26 11:13] You: BV, spare me
[2008/04/26 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: omg that will never happen
[2008/04/26 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: dont you like this
[2008/04/26 11:14] You: it’d have to be a toga, wouldn’t it
[2008/04/26 11:14] Beathan Vale: no — I like it
[2008/04/26 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: im thinking brunnet
[2008/04/26 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: brunette
[2008/04/26 11:14] Beathan Vale: so — I move a one day continuance of this bill
[2008/04/26 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i only wear togas at work
[2008/04/26 11:14] Beathan Vale: one week I mean
[2008/04/26 11:14] Beathan Vale: <-- hungry and irritable 😉
[2008/04/26 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: yes continuance.. no lets vote now
[2008/04/26 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: lets just for sakes vote
[2008/04/26 11:15] You: oy. A vote has been sought for the bill as amended. Those who want to wait can vote no.
[2008/04/26 11:15] Beathan Vale: kk
[2008/04/26 11:15] You: Members please state their vote.
[2008/04/26 11:15] MT Lundquist: second prin
[2008/04/26 11:15] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/04/26 11:15] Beathan Vale: abstain out of concern that the text has not been amended to resolve the problem requiring Constitutional amendment
[2008/04/26 11:16] You: Prin? voting?
[2008/04/26 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: thinking
[2008/04/26 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: um
[2008/04/26 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/04/26 11:16] You: KK. I will abstain.
[2008/04/26 11:16] You: 2-0-2
[2008/04/26 11:16] MT Lundquist: does sonja get a 7 day?
[2008/04/26 11:16] You: I view that as not passing.
[2008/04/26 11:16] You: Not unless she asks for it, which she hasn't.
[2008/04/26 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja will vote its her factions i think
[2008/04/26 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: she did ask for a seven day jamie
[2008/04/26 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its implied when you say you arent gonna be here
[2008/04/26 11:17] You: I expect this to come back - and I expect to vote for it - but we need the constitutional issue Beathan mentioned solved, in my take.
[2008/04/26 11:17] Beathan Vale: I will repropose this measure after I have a chance to rework it a bit
[2008/04/26 11:17] You: hm
[2008/04/26 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: it is
[2008/04/26 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: implicit who can eject that
[2008/04/26 11:17] MT Lundquist: thats what i belive to
[2008/04/26 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: if you can eject can you
[2008/04/26 11:17] MT Lundquist: that if i'm not here i get a 7 day
[2008/04/26 11:17] You: other views on that? I thought the member had to state they wanted to 7 day vote - it was by request, not implicit
[2008/04/26 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: nvm
[2008/04/26 11:18] Moon Adamant: that used to require a special request
[2008/04/26 11:18] Beathan Vale: I don't think my rules changed that
[2008/04/26 11:18] You: otherwise any member by not showing up woudl automatically delay everything
[2008/04/26 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i just thought if you say you arent here you get a seven day
[2008/04/26 11:18] Moon Adamant: from the rep in absence
[2008/04/26 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: its always been that way
[2008/04/26 11:18] Moon Adamant: no, it hasn't
[2008/04/26 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: yes it has
[2008/04/26 11:18] Beathan Vale: I always requested it --
[2008/04/26 11:18] Beathan Vale: never assumed it
[2008/04/26 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: and i didnt and i got it
[2008/04/26 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i did
[2008/04/26 11:19] You: Tsk, kids, I rule as your presiding officer that there's no 7 day hold unless requested. 🙂 overrule me if you like
[2008/04/26 11:19] Beathan Vale: but -- I think I specifically requested it for you at a session
[2008/04/26 11:19] You: Honestly that's how I reda the *old* rule text
[2008/04/26 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: kids is kinna demeaing jamie
[2008/04/26 11:19] MT Lundquist: in which case i request it for sonja
[2008/04/26 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: so if im sick and cant request cos i cant get online
[2008/04/26 11:19] You: (by the way i love that outfit - but I wonder if Coco Chanel's lawyers do)
[2008/04/26 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: or my internet fails
[2008/04/26 11:19] You: Prin you raise an excellent point
[2008/04/26 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i have everything chanel makes in sl
[2008/04/26 11:19] You: I think our rules do NOT provide adeuqtely for that sort of thing
[2008/04/26 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: its nto fair if you cant online that you cant fvote
[2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: well it should be that you get seven day period
[2008/04/26 11:20] Beathan Vale: hmmm ...
[2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: i thought that it was
[2008/04/26 11:20] You: I agree 🙂 let's change those rules too
[2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: change it
[2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: NOW
[2008/04/26 11:20] Moon Adamant: in the past, it never was a problem
[2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: well moon
[2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: it is today hunny
[2008/04/26 11:20] Beathan Vale: I need to go soon
[2008/04/26 11:20] You: I am not as big a fan of Bataan Death March live debate as some of y'all 🙂 sophisticated 21st century internet businesses permit remote async progress 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: huggs beathan
----
[2008/04/26 11:20] You: we are done with this item
[2008/04/26 11:20] You: and over time
[2008/04/26 11:21] You: and can adjourn if no one objects, even though there were other discussion items calendared
[2008/04/26 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: well i am aplaed that the SP is stalling through LRA to not get teh commerce on the agenda
[2008/04/26 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: mt worked hard
[2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: shhh
[2008/04/26 11:22] Beathan Vale: let's adjoiurn --- otherwise I leave, we lose quorum, all hell breaks loose, and Pat has much rejoicing
[2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: im takin a mickey
[2008/04/26 11:22] You: I don't think that's happening personally - I think we burned our two hours on other matters of greater interest to those present including your faction 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/04/26 11:22] MT Lundquist: i'm happy to wait
[2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: we can adjoyr
[2008/04/26 11:22] You: Coco
[2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: adjoyurn
[2008/04/26 11:22] You: 🙂
[2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: coco mademoiselle
[2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: smell it
[2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: omg
[2008/04/26 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: stupdendous
[2008/04/26 11:22] You: OK Mdmselle
[2008/04/26 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: bromo is not here but i hear he just got another vote
[2008/04/26 11:23] You: We are adjoruned, then, and thank you all
[2008/04/26 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: jon dont close it yet dearie
[2008/04/26 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ok thanks
[2008/04/26 11:23] Beathan Vale: bye all
[2008/04/26 11:23] You: Well, FWIW I think polls remain open until noon
[2008/04/26 11:23] You: i.e. 35 more mins
[2008/04/26 11:23] Jon Seattle: Yes, polls remain open until Noon SLT
[end]
RA Meeting: May 03, 2008
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times: process for determining next meeting
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate? (None.)
— MT’s revised bill: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1806
— Mt’s original bill: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
— Jamie’s original proposal: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
— Jamie’s current comments: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1817
— MT’s revised bill: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1806
— Mt’s original bill: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
— Jamie’s original proposal: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
— Jamie’s current comments: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1817
5. Other?
6. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h00-10h15)
Adjournment: 10h15
Held in Neufreistadt Rathaus
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
Transcript: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1845
===
[09:15] Called to order.
[09:17] 1a – Call for assent to recording.
[09:17] 1b – Agenda reviewed and modified. (Not raised.)
[09:23] 1c – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[09:25] 1d – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[09:26] 1e – Future RA meeting schedule. (See posts on this, default time agreed.)
[09:26] 1f – Consent agenda.
— Swear in new RA member FlyingRoc Chung and Gwyneth Llewelyn.
[09:32] 2 – LRA selection issues.
— Motion to send all draft bills for rule changes to Election Commission made [09:35] and seconded [09:36]. Motion approved 5-2-0. [09:44] Note, this includes this list, from 3 May posted agenda:
—- MT’s revised bill: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1806
—- MT’s original bill: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1636
—- Jamie’s original proposal: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1723
—- Jamie’s current comments: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1817
— Motion to select LRA made [09:46] and withdrawn [09:47].
— Motion to confirm continuance of current LRA made [09:47] and seconded [09:49]. Motion approved 6-0-1 [09:51].
[09:55] 3 – Future RA meeting schedule.
— General consensus to retain default hour of Saturdays 09h00 11h00 SLT [09:59].
[10:01] 4 – Status review of bills in progress
— nothing Private Development Proposal – may be ready today
— noting Guild planning/new sim update
— [10:06] Guild planning update (report)
—- Master plan work versus SIm 4 work [10:11]
—- Sim 4 progress [10:14]
—— Motion to position Sim4 to the West of Colonia Nova made [10:22] and seconded [10:22]. Motion withdrawn [10:23].
—— Agenda modification to extend time [10:28].
—— Motion to position Sim4 to the West of Colonia Nova and include at least 42 private lots made [10:28] and seconded [10:28]. Motion withdrawn [10:30].
—— Motion to position Sim4 to the West of Colonia Nova and include at least 42 private lots made [10:31] and seconded [10:31]. Motion approved 7-0-0 [10:34].
—— Motion to approve revised PDP bill made [10:36] and seconded [10:36]. Motion clarified as enacting the revised version here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15
Motion called for a first vote [10:42], vote cancelled.
——– Amendment proposed to correct a typo made [10:58] and generally acceptable, added to main motion.
——– Main motion (to approve revised PDP as amended) adopted 4-2-0 [11:00]
[11:02] Adjourned.
Transcript of 3 May 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====
[2008/05/03 9:07] You: good morning 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:07] Sonja Strom: good morning
[2008/05/03 9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:08] Sonja Strom: hi 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, I was at the wrong place lol
[2008/05/03 9:08] Moon Adamant: hi Sonja 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:08] Sonja Strom: heehee
[2008/05/03 9:08] Sonja Strom: hi Moon 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:08] You: Hullo MT
[2008/05/03 9:08] MT Lundquist: i was in the wrong plasce
[2008/05/03 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi, Sonja, Moon, Jamie!
[2008/05/03 9:08] Sonja Strom: coffee
[2008/05/03 9:08] You: A moment as I’m pinging our absent colleagues
[2008/05/03 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh coffee!
[2008/05/03 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/03 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders why my SL client takes so long at making me sit (I know, you all see me correctly)
[2008/05/03 9:10] Flyingroc Chung: *yawn*
[2008/05/03 9:10] Flyingroc Chung: rezzing
[2008/05/03 9:10] MT Lundquist: hi fr
[2008/05/03 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hiya FR, good morning!
[2008/05/03 9:11] MT Lundquist: still naked i see
[2008/05/03 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/05/03 9:11] You: Good day all .. and welcome Gwyn and Roc
[2008/05/03 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn sees nothing and will probably relog
[2008/05/03 9:11] Moon Adamant: Hi Fr 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:11] Moon Adamant: and hello MT
[2008/05/03 9:11] MT Lundquist: hi moon
[2008/05/03 9:11] Flyingroc Chung: aha, suddenly the chairs rez
[2008/05/03 9:11] You: (Do we have a dress code? yikes)
[2008/05/03 9:11] You: Chairs good
[2008/05/03 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seems better now
[2008/05/03 9:12] MT Lundquist: what dress code
[2008/05/03 9:12] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/03 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/03 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i hope not my shoes dont match
[2008/05/03 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Prin
[2008/05/03 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi grins at gwyen
[2008/05/03 9:12] You: Well, I’ve talked to all except Beathan who is not yet online, so I think we can start?
[2008/05/03 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what do your Chinese characters mean, Jamie?
[2008/05/03 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan
[2008/05/03 9:13] You: Roughly, protector or sponsor
[2008/05/03 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha
[2008/05/03 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:13] Moon Adamant: hello Princess
[2008/05/03 9:13] You: .. of a Zen temple project of a friend 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:13] Jamie Palisades looks over his head.. oops 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/05/03 9:13] Flyingroc Chung: oh, I thought it meant “chinese car”
[2008/05/03 9:14] Sonja Strom: hehee
[2008/05/03 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: do you read Chinese, FR? 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:14] Flyingroc Chung: I have a vocabulary of about 100 words
[2008/05/03 9:14] You: well you’d know better – but – ittty bitty little rendering of pinyin, shrug
[2008/05/03 9:14] Flyingroc Chung: which is to say, no, I dont really read chinese
[2008/05/03 9:14] Moon Adamant: 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, I thought you might
[2008/05/03 9:14] Moon Adamant: well, 100 more words than me 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:14] You: and I think SL uses the ‘simplified mandarin’ subset of Unicode – which is pretty truncated
[2008/05/03 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha
[2008/05/03 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: welcome, beathan!
[2008/05/03 9:15] Moon Adamant: hello Beathan 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:15] Jamie Palisades shifts mental gears and smiles
[2008/05/03 9:15] MT Lundquist: hi beathan
—-
[2008/05/03 9:15] You: Let’s call to order 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:15] Beathan Vale: sorry I’m late — computer troubles
[2008/05/03 9:15] Flyingroc Chung: jaime, SL uses utf-8, which can render eitehr simplified or traditional mandarin
[2008/05/03 9:15] You: Agenda at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1835
[2008/05/03 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn was reading it
[2008/05/03 9:16] You: ahha yes, 8 bit … but ofcourse the client who names the group … grin, shrug
[2008/05/03 9:16] Sonja Strom too
[2008/05/03 9:16] You: Folks, our current rules give you the rght to amend the agenda, which we will get to in a moment
[2008/05/03 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/05/03 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1b 😉
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: my only comment about that is that today we have the special issue of sorting out our own organiation – rather like a term start – which I figured ought to come first, after adminstrative trvivia 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: so
—-
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: 1a
[2008/05/03 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: Would everyone please assent to being recorded. I assent
[2008/05/03 9:17] Beathan Vale: I assent
[2008/05/03 9:17] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/05/03 9:17] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/05/03 9:17] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/05/03 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That aye was I assent too of course.
[2008/05/03 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: 🙂
—-
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: 1b
[2008/05/03 9:17] You: Agenda
[2008/05/03 9:18] You: any modifications?
[2008/05/03 9:18] Flyingroc Chung assents
[2008/05/03 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[2008/05/03 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i do
[2008/05/03 9:18] You: I note a few need ot leave early, thus the suggestion of a short meeting
[2008/05/03 9:18] You: OK, Gwyn?
[2008/05/03 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess first I think (I get chat out of order)
[2008/05/03 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah wait
[2008/05/03 9:18] You: 🙂 whatever. Prin? Agenda change?
[2008/05/03 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that i do was for the assent?
[2008/05/03 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i need to talk abot the guided tour again i still dont have money , and we have to leave a little early sorry
[2008/05/03 9:19] You: NP i set this for 1:15 not 2:00 today …
[2008/05/03 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/05/03 9:19] You: and let’s add tour at the top of item 4, hm? should be short
[2008/05/03 9:19] You: short
[2008/05/03 9:19] You: Gwyn, you had one also?
[2008/05/03 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, my question was — is the Election Committee (by Beathan) still in effect?
[2008/05/03 9:19] You: BV?
[2008/05/03 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: ok and general reimbursements cos bells didnt get paid eitehr …… for anything
[2008/05/03 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/05/03 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that will probably render item 2. unnecessary)
[2008/05/03 9:20] Jamie Palisades nods – Beathan, I *think* you still have an election commission?
[2008/05/03 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn waits for Beathan 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:20] Flyingroc Chung: there’s stilthe matter of how we choose LRA after a by-elections.
[2008/05/03 9:20] You: yup, but we couls skip the rest, which was Gwyn’s suggestiu\on by e-mail
[2008/05/03 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, then, while Beathan thinks… here goes my proposal, with the LRA’s permission…
[2008/05/03 9:20] You: 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) There is an Election Committee. Move 2. into it. Motion: elect an acting LRA while the COmmittee decides
[2008/05/03 9:21] Beathan Vale: JP — yes — but we need to have a post-eletion meeting on lessons learned
[2008/05/03 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so 1) stands
[2008/05/03 9:21] Beathan Vale: I’ll try to have one after thsi meeting and another later
[2008/05/03 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My proposal is that we elect just an acting LRA and wait for the conclusions of the Election Comittee,
[2008/05/03 9:21] MT Lundquist: we have the LRA bill on later
[2008/05/03 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and skip point 2
[2008/05/03 9:21] You: OK – sounds like a plan – for agenda purposes – let’s do that when we formally get to item 2
[2008/05/03 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.
[2008/05/03 9:22] You: someone can move to refer the bills, then, if they wish, smile
[2008/05/03 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:22] You: anything else on agenda?
[2008/05/03 9:22] MT Lundquist: Are we having 2
[2008/05/03 9:22] You: yes – but will sort out WHAT we do with it when we get there 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:22] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/03 9:22] Jamie Palisades looks around – agenda otherwise OK?
[2008/05/03 9:22] You: right then
—-
[2008/05/03 9:23] You: 1c
[2008/05/03 9:23] You: Any nonRA members who wish to speak on a specific item?
[2008/05/03 9:23] You: Moon – anything from Guild?
[2008/05/03 9:23] Moon Adamant: Well, we are currently developing a lot of things
[2008/05/03 9:24] Moon Adamant: i am here to give info on any issue the RA may want to inquire about
[2008/05/03 9:24] You: For now, will you wish to makr a report today, or not?
[2008/05/03 9:24] Moon Adamant: well, jamie, since you want a short meeting
[2008/05/03 9:24] You: K – we’ll put you into the Priv Dev slot then, with my colleagues’ permission
[2008/05/03 9:24] Moon Adamant: and we do have TONS of things going on
[2008/05/03 9:24] Moon Adamant: it’s more efficient if you just ask when needed
[2008/05/03 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to hear something from the Guild on item 4 b) [private development proposal]
[2008/05/03 9:24] You: 🙂 up to the group, Moon, dear, but that sounds fine to me
[2008/05/03 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Jamie on priv Dev slot 😉
[2008/05/03 9:25] You: yes, – a short refesher at least on where we are, and what’s next, hmn?
[2008/05/03 9:25] Moon Adamant: perfect for me *bows at the RA assembled*
[2008/05/03 9:25] You: I’d like us at least today to have a common understandig on the status of each bill in progress 🙂
—-
[2008/05/03 9:25] You: 1d
[2008/05/03 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi smiles at moon
[2008/05/03 9:25] You: Routine request: if anyone sees flaws in the posted transcripts or summaries, please let me know – or just make a corrective posting — but if you do the latter, please let me know, so I see it —-
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: and after today’s minutes, address it to your new LRA 🙂
—-
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: 1e
[2008/05/03 9:26] Ilse Mannonen’s Copyable Female ZHAO v2: Couldn’t find animation StanSexyF4
[2008/05/03 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: future meetings
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: we will talk about that under item 3
—-
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: 1f
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: consent agenda – I know of nothing
[2008/05/03 9:26] You: anyone?
[2008/05/03 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What are the “ministerial items”? 😉
[2008/05/03 9:27] You: ha ha – well, leaving wordplay aside, anything we all think can be voted out *without* debate
[2008/05/03 9:27] Sonja Strom: Should we swear in the new RA members?
[2008/05/03 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: we might swear
[2008/05/03 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: them in yes
[2008/05/03 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with Sonja.
[2008/05/03 9:27] Beathan Vale: items that do not need debate — such as approval of budgets and such — if debate is needed, they are placed on the agenda, otherwise it is for rapid approval
[2008/05/03 9:27] You: In a mood to swear? 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: never
[2008/05/03 9:28] You: Suffice to say we have no consent items proposed for today
[2008/05/03 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH. Well. We have an approved budget, just mmh a certain lack of reluctance in enforcing it
[2008/05/03 9:28] You: May I have everyone’s assent to swearing in our two new membees now? (Silence is assent)
[2008/05/03 9:28] Beathan Vale: OK — God Damn the new RA members — 😉
[2008/05/03 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn doesn’t know if she should assent
[2008/05/03 9:28] You: Oh, did we amend the oath, too?
[2008/05/03 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Beathan — good swering at! 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:28] You: heh
[2008/05/03 9:28] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/05/03 9:28] You: BV, still have the Oath card?
[2008/05/03 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: assent
[2008/05/03 9:29] Sonja Strom gave you CDS RA Office Affirmation.
[2008/05/03 9:29] Beathan Vale: so many many notes
[2008/05/03 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn accepted your inventory offer.
[2008/05/03 9:29] You: Gwyn, I’ve handed you a familiar notecard 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Jamie! you’re fast 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: well congratulations on your one seat moon and gwye
[2008/05/03 9:29] You: Gwyn please oath away 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:30] Moon Adamant: thank you
[2008/05/03 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I, Gwyneth Llewelyn, , having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, so help me God.
[2008/05/03 9:30] You: FR? Got it?
[2008/05/03 9:30] Flyingroc Chung: I Flyingroc Chung, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[2008/05/03 9:31] Flyingroc Chung: sry, not used to cut n paste on a vista machine
[2008/05/03 9:31] MT Lundquist: congratulations both of you
[2008/05/03 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2008/05/03 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[2008/05/03 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: congratulations FR for coming in first in the election! way to go …
[2008/05/03 9:31] Sonja Strom: me claps
[2008/05/03 9:31] You: Excuse me 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:31] Moon Adamant: Congrats FR and Gwyn 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:31] Beathan Vale: never before has a monkey come so far
[2008/05/03 9:31] You: Congratulations to both of you – and let’s get to work
[2008/05/03 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha! not true actually 😉
[2008/05/03 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: is it out of order if i pull his tail
[2008/05/03 9:31] You: next item
[2008/05/03 9:32] Flyingroc Chung declined your inventory offer.
[2008/05/03 9:32] You: yes
[2008/05/03 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Apes have no tails!
—-
[2008/05/03 9:32] You: 2
[2008/05/03 9:32] Beathan Vale: or — an ape and a redhead — isn’t there a movie about that?
[2008/05/03 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[2008/05/03 9:32] Moon Adamant: lol
[2008/05/03 9:32] Sonja Strom: Hi DivineLolita
[2008/05/03 9:32] Sonja Strom: welcome
[2008/05/03 9:32] You: I suggest that someone may wish to move to send the LRA *bills* to the Election Commission? Then we can debate that, leaving us with the one-time issue of today’s designation?
[2008/05/03 9:33] DivineLolita Demonia: Heys sorry i dont want to disturb
[2008/05/03 9:33] You: Hi Loli
[2008/05/03 9:33] Moon Adamant: hello 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:33] You: No prob, you’re welcome, as long as you can handle us being in a formal meeting 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:33] Beathan Vale: Send me the LRA bills? oh man … no!!!
[2008/05/03 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i do have a report about one of our new members
[2008/05/03 9:33] You: Prin? we’re on item 2
[2008/05/03 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: no im not sure we should do that if he doesnt want it
[2008/05/03 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I stand by my suggestion. I believe it’s pointless to do “partial revamping” on the election rules, if there is a committee working on it, and we shouldn’t change critical things “at whim” without seeing the overall picture. So I move that we send all proposed bills to the Election Comission, and just elect an “interim LRA” or “acting LRA” until the Committee finishes their proposal
[2008/05/03 9:33] You: Colleagues, what do you wish to do with the LRA bills?
[2008/05/03 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i wont tell you what fr did last night then
[2008/05/03 9:33] MT Lundquist: maybe we should discuss and vote here
[2008/05/03 9:34] Beathan Vale: I can handle them in the election meeting
[2008/05/03 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: ok we wanna vote ..
[2008/05/03 9:34] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/03 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: discuss and vote
[2008/05/03 9:34] Beathan Vale: if that is what the RA wants
[2008/05/03 9:34] MT Lundquist: but we have pictures from last night
[2008/05/03 9:34] You: OK, well, in lieu of a motion, let me ask: MT, which form of your bill is the current one we should be working from?
[2008/05/03 9:34] You: I had this: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1806
[2008/05/03 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose a motion: Pushing the discussion of all the LRA election bills for discussion by the Election Committe. Vote on an acting LRA until taht job is finished.
[2008/05/03 9:35] MT Lundquist: the current bill is the LRA and chancellor election
[2008/05/03 9:35] MT Lundquist: the lra elected by the RA
[2008/05/03 9:35] MT Lundquist: and direct election of chancellor
[2008/05/03 9:35] You: OK, Gwyn’s made a motion – send the bills to Election Commission (i.e., do not vote on them here today).
[2008/05/03 9:35] You: Second?
[2008/05/03 9:36] Flyingroc Chung: I second
[2008/05/03 9:36] Jamie Palisades look around
[2008/05/03 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you FR 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:36] You: ok
[2008/05/03 9:36] You: debate?
[2008/05/03 9:36] MT Lundquist: i believe the proposal is well formed already
[2008/05/03 9:36] Beathan Vale: I think this is OK — but I have to move quickly — because the bill would change the way the next election is conducted
[2008/05/03 9:36] You: Gwyn’s typing, I assume she’ll speak in favor first
[2008/05/03 9:36] MT Lundquist: discussion with all the major parties/factions
[2008/05/03 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My opinion remains: there is quite a lot to be changed in the whole election procedures. It’s not just the LRA and Chancellor
[2008/05/03 9:36] MT Lundquist: led to its present form
[2008/05/03 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: why would we revote on LRA
[2008/05/03 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: we just did that
[2008/05/03 9:37] MT Lundquist: i believe it has a strong concensus therefore
[2008/05/03 9:37] MT Lundquist: and doesnt need further attention
[2008/05/03 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I personally dislike doing things bit by bit, specially if we *already* have a Committee working on things.
[2008/05/03 9:37] You: hmm – well I hear some folks who want to act today and thus are speaking against the motion
[2008/05/03 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We invested in them the power to discuss *everything*
[2008/05/03 9:37] MT Lundquist: and we need to establish who is lra now
[2008/05/03 9:37] You: let me ask – is there a queue of people who want to speak further on this?
[2008/05/03 9:37] Beathan Vale: I do
[2008/05/03 9:38] You: BV, who else?
[2008/05/03 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, MT, but that’s easy — we just get a vote on an “acting LRA”. There is a lot of precedent on that, namely on the 2nd term of 2005
[2008/05/03 9:38] MT Lundquist: but ven so gwyn i believe that we should proceed
[2008/05/03 9:38] Beathan Vale: So far — the election committee has primary focussed on the mechanics of the process and on the itegrity of the process — I have not considered our mandate to include questions of what offices to election and certainly not internal RA governance
[2008/05/03 9:38] You: – we are a little free-form here. Can I suggest that everyone who has more to say on the motion take up to 60 secs each?
[2008/05/03 9:39] Beathan Vale: However, I also thank that this bill could usepublic inworld debate
[2008/05/03 9:39] You: In lieu of a need to be ritualistic, what say we start with BV, who was kind enough to ask to speak – then go around the room – once?
[2008/05/03 9:39] Beathan Vale: so far — it has been well debated on the forums and in the RA — but it might bear one inworld meeting
[2008/05/03 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, move it to the Election Committee — where the public can discuss freely 😉
[2008/05/03 9:39] MT Lundquist: i would have thought that its had a lot of debate already
[2008/05/03 9:39] Beathan Vale: I expect I will send it back for vote next week — probably with little to no changes
[2008/05/03 9:39] MT Lundquist: its been out there in various forms for weeks
[2008/05/03 9:39] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/05/03 9:40] Beathan Vale: I agree MT
[2008/05/03 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, MT, if thing were consensual — we wouldn’t have *four* proposals on the agenda — but just one.
[2008/05/03 9:40] Jamie Palisades sighs, smiles, and just decides to ask you rowdy lot to finish in 3 minutes and then will call for a vote
[2008/05/03 9:40] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/05/03 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The purpose of things like the Election Committee is exactly to get input from different things — like, well, four different proposals — and get a consensual one
[2008/05/03 9:41] Flyingroc Chung: lets just hope it doesnt end up like the judiciary committee
[2008/05/03 9:41] Jamie Palisades grins at the thought
[2008/05/03 9:41] MT Lundquist: exactly
[2008/05/03 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe FR — well, the best way to deal with that is to make sure we have consensual proposals 😉
[2008/05/03 9:42] You: .. ahem .. Ok, all, any new points or last words? Or can we vote on Gwyn’s motion to send it to committee?
[2008/05/03 9:42] MT Lundquist: perhaps we should vote on the bill, if it passes we have agreement, if not then we bring it to Beathans committee
[2008/05/03 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn has no new points
[2008/05/03 9:42] You: 🙂 motion on the floor is to send it, so you can vote against that, I guess, MT
[2008/05/03 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But give me 10 minutes and I’ll figure out a dozen 😉 hehe
[2008/05/03 9:42] MT Lundquist: true
[2008/05/03 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[2008/05/03 9:43] You: ha ha tsk. Members please state your vote – on the motion to send to Committee.
[2008/05/03 9:43] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/03 9:43] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/03 9:43] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/03 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote aye, let’s have the Committee discuss it.
[2008/05/03 9:43] You: aye
[2008/05/03 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: nay
[2008/05/03 9:43] MT Lundquist: nay
[2008/05/03 9:44] You: OK – passes 5-2-0.
[2008/05/03 9:44] You: and to be clear
[2008/05/03 9:44] You: I believe that covers all bills on LRA succession.
[2008/05/03 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2008/05/03 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks so as well.
[2008/05/03 9:44] You: and the commission meets immediately after this meeting, yes?
[2008/05/03 9:44] Beathan Vale: I will prep notecards on this issue and try to have a special meeting or meetings o fthe committee in the next week
[2008/05/03 9:44] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/05/03 9:44] MT Lundquist: thats a problem
[2008/05/03 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn thanks Beathan 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:44] Beathan Vale: we can start the discussion then
[2008/05/03 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: we request a time change
[2008/05/03 9:45] You: AH OK – no commission meeting today then
[2008/05/03 9:45] MT Lundquist: as we cant attend after this meeting
[2008/05/03 9:45] You: BV is chair and will schedule, smile
[2008/05/03 9:45] Beathan Vale: but I still want to do a after the fact review of the election
[2008/05/03 9:45] You: noted 😉
[2008/05/03 9:45] You: Ladies and gentlemen we’re still on item 2
[2008/05/03 9:45] Moon Adamant whispers “brb”
[2008/05/03 9:46] Sonja Strom: Jamie, is your tea getting cold?
[2008/05/03 9:46] You: We need an LRA – and have just send all our legislative solutions to committee 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Motion 2: Elect an “acting LRA” until the Elect. Committee proposes a change on the election procedures. Two steps: call for candidates among our august members of this assembly. Step two: vote on the candidates.
[2008/05/03 9:46] You: It’s magic tea, Sonja
[2008/05/03 9:46] Sonja Strom: ok 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: we have an LRA we already voted for him
[2008/05/03 9:46] MT Lundquist: true
[2008/05/03 9:47] You: OK we have a motion – which amouts to, elect one for now, to last until the next general election.
[2008/05/03 9:47] Beathan Vale: second
[2008/05/03 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh — Princess, I actually agree with you!
[2008/05/03 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i would like to move that jamie stay LRA if he will
[2008/05/03 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll withdraw the motion if the RA members wish simply to endow the current LRA as acting LRA until the remainder of the term 😉
[2008/05/03 9:47] You: to be honest, and fair to Prin, her point that the current appontment (me) may “ride through” without action is entirely plausible … but …
[2008/05/03 9:48] You: … our rules and law on this are a mess 🙂 … as I noted on he forums .. so who knows … and …
[2008/05/03 9:48] You: I only wish to continue to serve if it’s your will. So – we have a motion – was it seconded?
[2008/05/03 9:48] Beathan Vale: no — it makes sense to reconfirm Jamie
[2008/05/03 9:48] Sonja Strom: I think there is a motion on the floor, and we should vote on it.
[2008/05/03 9:48] Beathan Vale: the theory is that the LRA should be by consent of the RA — and the RA is now changed so new indication of consent would be helpful
[2008/05/03 9:48] MT Lundquist: well i believe it depends on the results of the beathans committee
[2008/05/03 9:48] MT Lundquist: so it should stand until then
[2008/05/03 9:48] Sonja Strom: yes
[2008/05/03 9:48] Beathan Vale: second
[2008/05/03 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes Jamie it was)
[2008/05/03 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But
[2008/05/03 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d suggest that we change the order
[2008/05/03 9:49] You: MT, Beathan’s committee will not create a solution that tells us who the LRA will be *today* 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:49] MT Lundquist: i agree
[2008/05/03 9:49] Jamie Palisades listenms to Gwyn – this is about how to proceed on the motion?
[2008/05/03 9:49] Beathan Vale: my committee probably won’t recommend anything for this term
[2008/05/03 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I will second Prin’s/Beathans motion to reconfirm the current LRA as acting LRA until the end of term
[2008/05/03 9:49] MT Lundquist: but it may well tell us how to find an lra before the nend of the term
[2008/05/03 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and have that voted first
[2008/05/03 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if it doesn’t pass,
[2008/05/03 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can go to my motion next.
[2008/05/03 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it’s just a change of order of the motions, if you’re agreeable, Mr LRA)
[2008/05/03 9:50] You: ok, I read that as Gwyn withdrawing her motion, and consensus to take Prin’s motion as the new motion for action. Does that work for everyone?
[2008/05/03 9:50] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/05/03 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that, yes
[2008/05/03 9:50] Flyingroc Chung: works for me
[2008/05/03 9:50] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/05/03 9:50] You: OK, then, this is a vote to confirm my contuinance for the remainder of this term. Discussion?
[2008/05/03 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: imma vote for jamie to be LRA then i have to reboot.. ok … aye
[2008/05/03 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: brb
[2008/05/03 9:50] You: got it
[2008/05/03 9:50] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] Beathan Vale: move the q
[2008/05/03 9:51] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] Jamie Palisades looks for more typey gstures
[2008/05/03 9:51] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] You: members please state their vote. We note Prin voted aye.
[2008/05/03 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye as well.
[2008/05/03 9:51] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/03 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: hm, I think I voted twice
[2008/05/03 9:51] You: well, thank you, all. I will abstain. It’s a politesse thing.
[2008/05/03 9:51] Sonja Strom: hehee
[2008/05/03 9:52] You: The false modesty of politicans and all that …
[2008/05/03 9:52] Moon Adamant: my congrats to the LRA 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: acting LRA, congratulations 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:52] You: so – hm – that moots Gwyn’s motion in abeyance, so we can consider it gone
[2008/05/03 9:52] Sonja Strom: Thanks Jamie 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:52] Flyingroc Chung: meet the new LRA, same as….
[2008/05/03 9:52] MT Lundquist: congratulations
[2008/05/03 9:52] Beathan Vale: Jamie — feel any different?
[2008/05/03 9:53] Moon Adamant: lol
[2008/05/03 9:53] You: 🙂 I was referring to myself as interim before, and will not do so through the end of this term 🙂 Gwyn if you think the appellation ‘acting’ means anything, you’re welcome to explain, otherwise I don’t plan to use it.
[2008/05/03 9:53] Sonja Strom: more assured that you have the confidence of the RA?
[2008/05/03 9:53] You: Yes – actually – I thikn it’s healthy, to answer Sonja
[2008/05/03 9:53] MT Lundquist: and i’m happy that we selected the LRA
[2008/05/03 9:54] You: but we will leave questions of the wisdom of electing LRAs to … our august special commission 😀
[2008/05/03 9:54] Sonja Strom: I don’t think Jamie should always have to say he is “Acting” LRA.
[2008/05/03 9:54] You: Not planning to, Sonja, through Mdmselle Llewelyn is welcome to make a case 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:54] You: moving on, hm?
[2008/05/03 9:54] Sonja Strom: He is the LRA 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja, I second that and vote “aye”!
[2008/05/03 9:54] MT Lundquist: i second sonja
[2008/05/03 9:54] Sonja Strom: So Jamie, you are the LRA.
[2008/05/03 9:54] You: cheers all – let’s move on
—-
[2008/05/03 9:55] You: 3
[2008/05/03 9:55] You: future meetings 🙂
[2008/05/03 9:55] Flyingroc Chung: there goes beathan
[2008/05/03 9:55] You: Thank you for tolerating this out-of-order item
[2008/05/03 9:55] Sonja Strom: he seems sleepy today
[2008/05/03 9:56] You: but we need a happily consensual meeting date – one thatwe re-use would be nice – there are people other than the 7 of us would would be better cinveniences by regular time slots.
[2008/05/03 9:56] Sonja Strom: Is anyone unhappy with meeting at this time each week?
[2008/05/03 9:56] You: any thoughts on regular meeting times? Lately we have used 12 SLT Sunday and today’s slot 9 am SLT Saturday …
[2008/05/03 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with either
[2008/05/03 9:56] Sonja Strom: Me too.
[2008/05/03 9:57] Flyingroc Chung: if we are to meet wekends, I can meet at 9am saturday, 9am sunday
[2008/05/03 9:57] Flyingroc Chung: I slightly prefer sunday, actually
[2008/05/03 9:57] You: We have a couple of North American churchgoers, so can I sugges we standardize on this time slot?
[2008/05/03 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Saturdays I’m sadly away from noon-6 PM SLT — no problems on Sunday
[2008/05/03 9:57] MT Lundquist: 12 sunday is difficult for me
[2008/05/03 9:57] MT Lundquist: i go to bed then
[2008/05/03 9:57] MT Lundquist: to fit into prins time
[2008/05/03 9:58] MT Lundquist: i wake at 8pm slt
[2008/05/03 9:58] You: FR, I heard you, but I detect a slight leaning towards 9 am Saturdays .. and heartfelt objections? Noting that we tend often to take two hours, and MT and Gwyn are on EU time
[2008/05/03 9:58] MT Lundquist: so its my night
[2008/05/03 9:59] MT Lundquist: saturdays ok
[2008/05/03 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Saturdays 9 AM is perfect for 2-hour-meeting for me
[2008/05/03 9:59] Flyingroc Chung: it’s a bit early for me… but sure
[2008/05/03 9:59] Jamie Palisades look for objections, hears none
[2008/05/03 9:59] You: thanks
[2008/05/03 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Prin!
[2008/05/03 9:59] Flyingroc Chung: I dont need to shower an get dressed for SL meetings 😉
[2008/05/03 9:59] Sonja Strom: haha
[2008/05/03 9:59] You: OK we will consider that an amendment to BV’s rules document and make it the default,
[2008/05/03 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: ty
[2008/05/03 10:00] Arthulius Maximus: Hai
[2008/05/03 10:00] Beathan Vale: FR — don’t you work at Microsoft — do you really have to shower and get dressed for ANY meetings?
[2008/05/03 10:00] You: .. one of the many advantages of virtual monkeyhood
[2008/05/03 10:00] Sonja Strom: Hello Arthulius, welcome.
[2008/05/03 10:00] Arthulius Maximus: Thanks
[2008/05/03 10:00] Moon Adamant: hello Arthulius
[2008/05/03 10:00] Arthulius Maximus: Hi
[2008/05/03 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi 😀
[2008/05/03 10:00] Arthulius Maximus: Hallo
[2008/05/03 10:01] Sonja Strom: halloo 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:01] MT Lundquist: hi
[2008/05/03 10:01] You: Welcome, Arthul, this is a formal meeting, you’re welcome to observe, but if you plan to speak here, please let us know and assent to being recorded in our transcript 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh next item, Mr LRA?…
[2008/05/03 10:01] You: indeed
—-
[2008/05/03 10:01] You: 4
[2008/05/03 10:01] Arthulius Maximus: Ok, I’ll just observe then, I have no idea what’s going on :p
[2008/05/03 10:01] You: it was my suggestion that we briefly look at our stable of bills in process and see if we are doing what’s needed to move forward
[2008/05/03 10:02] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/03 10:02] Sonja Strom: Sometimes I wonder if we do 😉
[2008/05/03 10:02] You: no prob Arthul 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: none of us do.. and when we think we do we are wrong
[2008/05/03 10:02] Arthulius Maximus: XD
[2008/05/03 10:02] Sonja Strom: hahaa
[2008/05/03 10:02] You: Let me ask: does anyone propose to bring any of them to a vote *today*?
[2008/05/03 10:02] You: if so we ought to deal with that first, hm?
[2008/05/03 10:02] Beathan Vale: the priv dev proposal is ready, I think
[2008/05/03 10:03] You: hmm -so at least let’s talk about it first, and get Moon’s Guild update. Others planning action *today*?
[2008/05/03 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my case, I’d just bring a “No” vote on the Noncommulation of mandates act 😀 but I’ll reserve my arguments if that is going to be discussed
[2008/05/03 10:03] Moon Adamant: hmmm… tell me when i must speak?
[2008/05/03 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If not, I rather preferred that we went ahead and listen to Moon 😀
[2008/05/03 10:04] You: OK 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:04] Jamie Palisades hears no objections
[2008/05/03 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: if it passes you wont run next term
[2008/05/03 10:04] You: let’s do Priv Dev first – I suggest we first ask Moon for a brief update on the Guild’s planning activity, and whatever charter changes they may bring (but have not yet), then ask BV to carry his bill forward
[2008/05/03 10:05] You: to>do
[2008/05/03 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that decision by the LRA
[2008/05/03 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: enthusiastically, if I may add 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:05] You: Private Development, smile, ahem
[2008/05/03 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi gags just a little
[2008/05/03 10:05] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/05/03 10:06] You: Moon? update, say 5 mins or less, followed by polite questions after you’re done?
[2008/05/03 10:06] Moon Adamant: Guild is atm voting a new Faculty
[2008/05/03 10:06] Moon Adamant: which will happen on the 8th May
[2008/05/03 10:06] Moon Adamant: at same time, we are preparing a new charter
[2008/05/03 10:06] Moon Adamant: also to be discussed and voted by Faculty
[2008/05/03 10:06] Moon Adamant: this charter addresses the clearer separation of Faculty and board
[2008/05/03 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: brb
[2008/05/03 10:07] Moon Adamant: plus some other internal aspect of guild procedures
[2008/05/03 10:07] Moon Adamant: this charter will later then be put to discussion at Board level
[2008/05/03 10:07] Moon Adamant: and when approved, we will ask this RA to vote the Charter
[2008/05/03 10:08] Moon Adamant: as happened with the charter currently standing
[2008/05/03 10:08] Moon Adamant: as for the contents of the charter that directly matter to the private dev bill
[2008/05/03 10:08] Moon Adamant: they deal essentially with the separation of board and faculty
[2008/05/03 10:09] Moon Adamant: board being a “contractor”
[2008/05/03 10:09] Moon Adamant: and faculty being a consultive organ
[2008/05/03 10:09] Moon Adamant: Faculty will organize itself in departments
[2008/05/03 10:09] Moon Adamant: one of them being the Buyilding Approval Committee
[2008/05/03 10:10] Moon Adamant: which will aid the Chancellor, as in accordance to Beathan’s proposal
[2008/05/03 10:10] Moon Adamant: the charter also previews that these deps will have the power to define internal procedures
[2008/05/03 10:10] Moon Adamant: so to resume
[2008/05/03 10:10] No room to sit here, try another spot.
[2008/05/03 10:10] Moon Adamant: we think that in less of a month, depending on debate time
[2008/05/03 10:11] Moon Adamant: the Guild will be ready for the Private Dev Bill
[2008/05/03 10:11] Moon Adamant: done…. questions?
[2008/05/03 10:11] You: Yes thanks
[2008/05/03 10:11] You: OK, questions for Moon. And permit me to ask two – and I apologize if the answers are on the forum and I missed them. First, do you think all the procedural Guild stuff is crowding out or ‘gating’ Sim 4 planning, and future strategic map planning, on your agenda? Or are the latter two projects also progressing in parallel? … And second, since the Guild accepted the RA’s instructions on Sim4, and we have received *no* questions for clarification, may I assum eyou are ready and Sudane should order the sim immediately? Or what else is an obstacle to that step?
[2008/05/03 10:11] Moon Adamant listens
[2008/05/03 10:12] You: Q1 is about process versus substantive work
[2008/05/03 10:12] Moon Adamant: well, let me explain how Board works
[2008/05/03 10:12] You: *process
[2008/05/03 10:12] Moon Adamant: we constitue projects that are assigned to workgroups
[2008/05/03 10:12] Moon Adamant: atm, in parallel, there are 2 workgroups
[2008/05/03 10:12] Moon Adamant: one for masterplan
[2008/05/03 10:12] Moon Adamant: onne for 4th sim
[2008/05/03 10:12] Moon Adamant: they’re both working
[2008/05/03 10:13] Moon Adamant: the masterplan wg has a very large scope
[2008/05/03 10:13] Moon Adamant: you have received my mail about conducting surveys to the community, i hope?
[2008/05/03 10:13] Moon Adamant: so we can consider it as a standing WG
[2008/05/03 10:13] Sonja Strom: I received one from Symo.
[2008/05/03 10:13] Moon Adamant: also because we are receiving a lot of input from citizens
[2008/05/03 10:14] You: OK, so I take the answer to Q1 to be that they *are* all proceeding in parallel and are *not* gated by the charter changes. Moon, is that correct? Let’s talk about surveys in a sec
[2008/05/03 10:14] Moon Adamant: yes – the work is carrying on
[2008/05/03 10:14] You: excellent thx – and let’s get to those surveys as point 3
[2008/05/03 10:14] Moon Adamant: the charter is an internal discussion that will organize our work futher, but it is not stopping us
[2008/05/03 10:14] Moon Adamant: just let me add
[2008/05/03 10:14] You: on the second question I raised, Moon? Sim 4 order?
[2008/05/03 10:14] Moon Adamant: that atm for sim 4
[2008/05/03 10:15] Moon Adamant: my last info is that we have 3 people preparing sim plans
[2008/05/03 10:15] Moon Adamant: (from earlier on this week)
[2008/05/03 10:15] Moon Adamant: we prefer to present those plans, iterate so that we can have a consensus plan
[2008/05/03 10:15] Moon Adamant: and then hand it to financials
[2008/05/03 10:16] You: ? is that sort of like the Arria and Rose competing plans, then? They all are working within the RA parameters? They all are Guild members? I’m confused, sorry
[2008/05/03 10:16] Moon Adamant: so that financials don’t have useless work
[2008/05/03 10:16] Moon Adamant: all citizens are guild members
[2008/05/03 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: no they will ask for changes to our request from the meetings i attended
[2008/05/03 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: sir jamie
[2008/05/03 10:16] Moon Adamant: and at the forums
[2008/05/03 10:16] Moon Adamant: you will find the transcript of our last meeting
[2008/05/03 10:16] You: Let’s let Moon finish her answer, then Prin has a Q
[2008/05/03 10:16] Moon Adamant: in which we discussed the RA parameters
[2008/05/03 10:17] Moon Adamant: as for your first question, it’s not like the Nea Hora vs Alp Meadows
[2008/05/03 10:17] Moon Adamant: but more like the process that led Jon and Dnate’«s plans to be merged into final Alp Mead
[2008/05/03 10:18] Moon Adamant: i hope this has answered your questions?
[2008/05/03 10:18] You: Moon, I may not be stating it well, but my concern is that the actual sim order could be placed – there being a troubled queue at Linden Labs – and I think you are telling me that more *financial* work is needed, as well as more design work, before the Guild would recommend we proceed to place the order. Is that right?
[2008/05/03 10:19] Moon Adamant: i believe you want a serious design and financials, right?
[2008/05/03 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi looks down rolls her eyes
[2008/05/03 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: they are changing what we gave them.. so they have to redo financials
[2008/05/03 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: fewer lots
[2008/05/03 10:20] Moon Adamant: As to Princess’ comments
[2008/05/03 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: different prim amounts etc.
[2008/05/03 10:20] Moon Adamant: let me explain
[2008/05/03 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: please do hun
[2008/05/03 10:20] Moon Adamant: we are considering that due to difference in densities
[2008/05/03 10:20] Beathan Vale: my understandibng is that there will be a recommendation to slightly reduce the number of lots — from 50 to 42 or 45 or so — not a huge change
[2008/05/03 10:21] Moon Adamant: a denser sim would perhaps be placed better in CN-West
[2008/05/03 10:21] Moon Adamant: NEXT to the city
[2008/05/03 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: the assumptions made by guild members in teh transcripts are many of them wrong though moon
[2008/05/03 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: and we made an order to you
[2008/05/03 10:21] Beathan Vale: yes — and relocate the CN west — I think that is something the RA should do
[2008/05/03 10:21] You: hang on all ) Moon, you done?
[2008/05/03 10:21] Beathan Vale: the 4th sim would be better placed CN West
[2008/05/03 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: yes they are completely out of order
[2008/05/03 10:21] You: tsk
[2008/05/03 10:21] Moon Adamant: Princess, it is not my function to comment on the accuracy of Guild members’ assumptions
[2008/05/03 10:21] You: Is Moon finished?
[2008/05/03 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: its mine
[2008/05/03 10:21] Moon Adamant: kindly let me continue
[2008/05/03 10:22] Beathan Vale: I move to authorize the Guild to build the 4th sim in CN West
[2008/05/03 10:22] Moon Adamant: no
[2008/05/03 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/05/03 10:22] Moon Adamant: at the same time
[2008/05/03 10:22] You: I ask that Moon be given 60 more seconds to conclude he remarks first.
[2008/05/03 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: two sims yay@!
[2008/05/03 10:22] Moon Adamant: ok, i’ll wait for the motion, then continue?
[2008/05/03 10:22] MT Lundquist: third
[2008/05/03 10:22] You: sigh
[2008/05/03 10:23] You: I am emotionally entirely on the side of that mnotion, I’m afraid
[2008/05/03 10:23] You: BUT Can we permit Moon to finish for SIXTY seconds, please.B
[2008/05/03 10:23] Moon Adamant: shal i continue, or shall i wait for your motion?
[2008/05/03 10:23] Beathan Vale: there is good reason to move the sim to CN west — and it effects Guild design — I meant to raise this earlier but I forgot
[2008/05/03 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: lets add in the lot number change too ………
[2008/05/03 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ammend the movement to change all they want changed .. location and lot numbers
[2008/05/03 10:23] Beathan Vale: OK — no fewer than 42 lots and moved to CN West
[2008/05/03 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: second beathan
[2008/05/03 10:23] Beathan Vale: OK — motion withindrwan
[2008/05/03 10:23] Moon Adamant: we are atm studying
[2008/05/03 10:23] Beathan Vale: for now
[2008/05/03 10:24] You: 🙂 ladies and gentlemen.
[2008/05/03 10:24] You: I share your impatience but not your approach to politeness …
[2008/05/03 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi winks at bv
[2008/05/03 10:24] Moon Adamant: if a slight reduction in the number of plots – around 10% less
[2008/05/03 10:24] Flyingroc Chung: I’m not sure I want the RA to micromanage how many lots are to be built.
[2008/05/03 10:24] Moon Adamant: can allow us to give a prim multiplicator to parcels
[2008/05/03 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure I don’t want that either, FR 😉
[2008/05/03 10:24] Moon Adamant: it’s not DOUBLE parcels
[2008/05/03 10:25] Moon Adamant: but we can give a non-integer multiplicator
[2008/05/03 10:25] You: Moon I thikn we should regar the RAmembes ans wishing to act wihout further report, if I can dvine thir intent fom their omments correctl. Myapologies.
[2008/05/03 10:25] You: Honestly, friends, I feel a little like King Cole, here, in the RA, calling for our pipe & bowl, and with a bunch of prospective citizens who want to move in — and a sort of uncertain, receding timeline for actually moving, to be honest. Genuine gratitude for the Guild’s work, and no question that there is good will all around, but also, well, if we move *independently* of the Guild, do we need the PDP bill to be passed?
[2008/05/03 10:25] Moon Adamant waits
[2008/05/03 10:25] You: PDP experts?
[2008/05/03 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who’s “we” in that context, Jamie? The CDS? The RA? 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:25] You: Sim plans do not fall from the sky, smile
[2008/05/03 10:25] Flyingroc Chung: Should we wait for the new charter?
[2008/05/03 10:26] You: all of the above, flower girl
[2008/05/03 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok :)))
[2008/05/03 10:26] Flyingroc Chung: before we take up the sim devt bill
[2008/05/03 10:26] Moon Adamant: Jamie, you are totally right, sim plans do not fall out from the sky 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:26] You: to be clear on procedure: we have a motion and second 🙂 we are debating it
[2008/05/03 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: well …lets do the pdp and let them do what they want
[2008/05/03 10:26] Beathan Vale: FR — no -0- the charter depends on passage of the bill —
[2008/05/03 10:26] Beathan Vale: the Guild needs to respond to the bill or respond to its nonpassage
[2008/05/03 10:26] MT Lundquist: second pdp
[2008/05/03 10:26] Moon Adamant: well, Beathan
[2008/05/03 10:27] Moon Adamant: actually, we changed the charter to meet the new challenge of PDP
[2008/05/03 10:27] You: is the PDP bill ready to be enacted in the view of its PROPOSER?
[2008/05/03 10:27] You: 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:27] Moon Adamant: but it also contemplates internal Guild points
[2008/05/03 10:27] Beathan Vale: ok
[2008/05/03 10:27] Moon Adamant: so it was a lucky moment to solve two issues in one go 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:28] You: …… your slightly perplxed LRA notes we are over time as scheduled. I will assume an extension until 10h45 is acceptable to all, and that we remain on th PDP question, if no objection is voiced.
[2008/05/03 10:28] You: sigh
[2008/05/03 10:28] Beathan Vale: Ok — I renew my motion authorising guild to build 4th sim CN west with no fewer than 42 lots for private ownership
[2008/05/03 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No objections to extension.
[2008/05/03 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/05/03 10:29] You: Do I undestand corectly that BV ha moved, an someone has seconed, that we adopt the PDP bill now?
[2008/05/03 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i want to vote on beathans pdp bill now
[2008/05/03 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: yep
[2008/05/03 10:29] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/05/03 10:29] Beathan Vale: No
[2008/05/03 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait…
[2008/05/03 10:29] Beathan Vale: I withdraw motion and move PDP bill
[2008/05/03 10:29] Flyingroc Chung: hm, I dont think beathans motion is for adoption of the pdp bill…
[2008/05/03 10:29] You: Beathan – please clarify
[2008/05/03 10:29] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/05/03 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack
[2008/05/03 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: he wanted to add the guild requests
[2008/05/03 10:29] Flyingroc Chung sctaches head
[2008/05/03 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: hehe
[2008/05/03 10:29] Beathan Vale: I’ll get tot he guild afterward
[2008/05/03 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: read back jamie
[2008/05/03 10:29] Beathan Vale: OK –stop
[2008/05/03 10:30] Beathan Vale: I withdraw all motions
[2008/05/03 10:30] Beathan Vale: let me clarify
[2008/05/03 10:30] You: 🙂 thx
[2008/05/03 10:30] Beathan Vale: the Guild is making design decisions as to the previously authorized 4th sim
[2008/05/03 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
[2008/05/03 10:30] Beathan Vale: I understand that it has discovered that a dense sim would be better build CN West — and that double prims require a slight reduction in private lots from 50 to around 42
[2008/05/03 10:31] Jamie Palisades listens to BV until he indicates he’s done – because he was not raised by wolves …
[2008/05/03 10:31] Beathan Vale: So — I move that we authorize the Guild to design the 4th sim with these changes
[2008/05/03 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/05/03 10:31] You: That’s a motion. Is there a scond?
[2008/05/03 10:31] You: OK
[2008/05/03 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is motion #1 from you, Beathan. Right?
[2008/05/03 10:31] Moon Adamant: well, actually atm a non-integer multiplier with a 10% reduction in prim lots
[2008/05/03 10:31] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/05/03 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. That motion is on the floor?
[2008/05/03 10:31] Moon Adamant: but we can study the double prim question
[2008/05/03 10:32] Beathan Vale: OK — Moon — not double prim lots — but “more marketable and buildable lots”
[2008/05/03 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: study? .lol
[2008/05/03 10:32] You: Moon can you – is ONE word – confirm whether Bethan’s motion correctly captured that part of the Guild’s feedback?
[2008/05/03 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: i move no other changes to the ra bill after this eitehr
[2008/05/03 10:32] You: I am asking a yes or no question
[2008/05/03 10:32] Moon Adamant: yes in general principles
[2008/05/03 10:32] Moon Adamant: details to be verified 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: ;aldkjf;lskdfl;a
[2008/05/03 10:33] You: thanks – good enough for me 🙂 any more comments, or are you ready to vote?
[2008/05/03 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/05/03 10:33] You: I wil make a suggestion about how to proceed AFTER we vote on this 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine to vote, and votes “aye”
[2008/05/03 10:33] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/03 10:33] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/05/03 10:33] You: members please state your vote to BV’s amendment on the sim details. I vote aye.
[2008/05/03 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/05/03 10:33] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/03 10:33] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/03 10:33] You: ha ha you’re all ahead of me
[2008/05/03 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/05/03 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eagerness, Mr LRA, just eagerness 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:34] You: Passes 7-0-0
[2008/05/03 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:34] You: Indeed
[2008/05/03 10:34] You: now
[2008/05/03 10:34] Moon Adamant: thank you
[2008/05/03 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Guild, GO WORK! 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:34] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/03 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry!
[2008/05/03 10:34] Moon Adamant: i will inform the Guild of new changes in specs
[2008/05/03 10:34] Moon Adamant: eheheh, we do little else 😛
[2008/05/03 10:34] You: When we pass the PDP bill, anyone who thinks we wan to rush forward further will have their vehicle for doing so …
[2008/05/03 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/05/03 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: nice
[2008/05/03 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: choices are a good thing
[2008/05/03 10:35] Beathan Vale: does the PDP bill need further debate — or it is ready for vote?
[2008/05/03 10:35] You: .. so may I suggest that be our first agenda item for next week?
[2008/05/03 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: no i think we should vote now
[2008/05/03 10:35] MT Lundquist: second voting
[2008/05/03 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: why are we waiting its been around for ages
[2008/05/03 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to vote *now* too!
[2008/05/03 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: since the exodus and seat loss
[2008/05/03 10:36] Beathan Vale: OK — I move passage of the PDP bill
[2008/05/03 10:36] You: BV I have a feeling it has not been sanded down, since we last looked at it – but you tell me
[2008/05/03 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Beathan
[2008/05/03 10:36] Beathan Vale: no — it has been modified substantially based on Guild’s comments
[2008/05/03 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, the bill is fine. It has been changed quite a bit, yes
[2008/05/03 10:36] Beathan Vale: it no longer creates any new branches of government
[2008/05/03 10:36] You: Okey doke – will of the people – er, factions 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly
[2008/05/03 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the referendum issue is dealt with separately
[2008/05/03 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: so well, you have been working on it a lot darn time with lots of input from all facitons?
[2008/05/03 10:36] You: BV, can we have a specific URI for the version you are moving we adopt, please?
[2008/05/03 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so the CSDF is ready to support it 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:37] Moon Adamant: draft Analysis WG – not only Guild, but members of all factions and all gov branches, as well as individual experts
[2008/05/03 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to second Jamie’s request too
[2008/05/03 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: all of your votes, gwyen?
[2008/05/03 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: or just one
[2008/05/03 10:37] You: psst
[2008/05/03 10:37] You: bill text?
[2008/05/03 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: is it an amendment
[2008/05/03 10:37] You: forum?
[2008/05/03 10:37] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/05/03 10:38] Beathan Vale: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15
[2008/05/03 10:38] Beathan Vale: bottom of page 2
[2008/05/03 10:38] You: 🙂 thx – checking
[2008/05/03 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that’s the correct one — thank you
[2008/05/03 10:39] Beathan Vale: I note that this does call for one new agency — an advertising and publicity service — but no new land regulatory agencies
[2008/05/03 10:40] You: got it – and I note that the direct link to Baethan’s 17 April final text is viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p10980
[2008/05/03 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: ty
[2008/05/03 10:40] You: ready to vote? …
[2008/05/03 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: fantastic work
[2008/05/03 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The agency is to be done/discussed on further bills, so no objections on having that mentioned here.
[2008/05/03 10:41] Sonja Strom: I have a question.
[2008/05/03 10:41] You: ? Sonja
[2008/05/03 10:41] Flyingroc Chung: beathan, what’s the difference between the first and the second part.. one is within the cds continent, and the other is outside of it?
[2008/05/03 10:42] You: can we get Sonja’s question, and an answer from BV to her and Roc?
[2008/05/03 10:42] Sonja Strom: Who would actually approve any given private development?
[2008/05/03 10:42] Beathan Vale: no — one is close to the current CDS and the other is somewhat removed — we don’t want a build to happen close by without our having more control — so we don’t get stuck with a bad neighbor if things go south
[2008/05/03 10:42] Beathan Vale: Sonja — the chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:42] You: 🙂 any more Qs? Ready to vote?
[2008/05/03 10:42] You: Members please state their vote. I vote aye
[2008/05/03 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we cant support it
[2008/05/03 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: nay
[2008/05/03 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye.
[2008/05/03 10:43] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/03 10:43] Sonja Strom: nay
[2008/05/03 10:43] MT Lundquist: i need clarification before voting
[2008/05/03 10:43] You: if we’re voting, MT, that’s a “nay” for now. Roc?
[2008/05/03 10:43] MT Lundquist: is it the ra that approves a build or the chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: if its just the chancellor .. nucare will NOT support
[2008/05/03 10:43] MT Lundquist: no i want clarification before i vote
[2008/05/03 10:44] Flyingroc Chung: I’m not ready to vote aye on this, though I support it in principle
[2008/05/03 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: we feel the same
[2008/05/03 10:44] Sonja Strom: me too
[2008/05/03 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: its more than one person can decide
[2008/05/03 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: it needs the RA and maybe chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:44] You: OK, let’s deem it failed 3-4-0 please, with MT and Roc voting no for now. More discussion?
[2008/05/03 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/05/03 10:44] MT Lundquist: can anyone answer my question
[2008/05/03 10:44] Moon Adamant: er
[2008/05/03 10:44] You: “voting no”
[2008/05/03 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, read the bill… it states who decides 😛
[2008/05/03 10:45] You: Yes – Can BV answer MT?
[2008/05/03 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I know, it’s a long and extensive bill)
[2008/05/03 10:45] Moon Adamant: yes, it has been on the bill since ever
[2008/05/03 10:45] MT Lundquist: i dont believe i voted yet
[2008/05/03 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan is sadly away
[2008/05/03 10:45] You: we can always re-vote but we do not debate during votes 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:45] MT Lundquist: well the vote was called prematurly
[2008/05/03 10:45] MT Lundquist: i had questions
[2008/05/03 10:45] You: MT I must rcord yor vote, nd BV s not her to answer.
[2008/05/03 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I agree, MT
[2008/05/03 10:46] You: 🙂 OK then, how would you like to proceed?
[2008/05/03 10:46] Beathan Vale: OK — let me clarify
[2008/05/03 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, actually, MT is right — he called for a question before the vote
[2008/05/03 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beathan’s back to answer 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:46] MT Lundquist: i would like to have the point i asked clarified
[2008/05/03 10:46] MT Lundquist: then i will vote
[2008/05/03 10:46] You: The vote’s deemed withdrawn as premature
[2008/05/03 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank you Mr LRA
[2008/05/03 10:46] Moon Adamant: wb Beathan
[2008/05/03 10:46] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/05/03 10:47] You: BV, MT had a Q for you
[2008/05/03 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [10:43] MT Lundquist: is it the ra that approves a build or the chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Basically a variation of Sonja’s question: [10:42] Sonja Strom: Who would actually approve any given private development?
[2008/05/03 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [10:42] Beathan Vale: Sonja — the chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:48] Beathan Vale: the RA approves a master plan setting development standards; the Chancellor has the job of inspecting developments to ensure that they comply with those standards and can approve or disapprove only based on those standards and on architectural quality concerns (which are outside the scope of the standards) — I envision that if the Chancellor approves a build that violates the standards, the SC would be asked to decide the case; a builder can appeal to the SC if the build should have been approved but wasn’t — so it is not all down to the Chancellor — there is multi-branch invovlement and checks and balances
[2008/05/03 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: but are we setting standards for EACH.
[2008/05/03 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and as usual, the RA always validates the Chancellor’s decisions 😉 )
[2008/05/03 10:49] MT Lundquist: so is each sim first approved in ra
[2008/05/03 10:49] Flyingroc Chung: Shouldnt the guild approve, since it has the expertise?
[2008/05/03 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The guild does *technical* approval through the BAC, FR
[2008/05/03 10:49] Moon Adamant: may i answer that?
[2008/05/03 10:49] You: please do
[2008/05/03 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: can the guild advise the chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The executive decision is by the Chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:49] Moon Adamant: FR
[2008/05/03 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin: yes, through the BAC
[2008/05/03 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry Moon
[2008/05/03 10:49] Beathan Vale: TP — no — the private builder makes those specific design decisions — but the design must be approved as consistent witht he regional plan
[2008/05/03 10:49] You: Gwyn. may Moon answer, please?
[2008/05/03 10:49] Moon Adamant: The Guild will be split in two bodies
[2008/05/03 10:50] Moon Adamant: Faculty and Board
[2008/05/03 10:50] Sonja Strom: BV, approved by whom?
[2008/05/03 10:50] Moon Adamant: they already exist, but are not very clearly separated at m
[2008/05/03 10:50] Moon Adamant: ok, Board is a contractor
[2008/05/03 10:50] Beathan Vale: aproved by the Chancellor — the Chancellorreviews and approves both design and build based ont he regional plan
[2008/05/03 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: ok if we approve then the chancellor, but each build needs to pass RA, chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:50] Beathan Vale: Also — if the RA wants more detail — we can have a very detailed regional plan
[2008/05/03 10:51] Moon Adamant: Faculty, through its Departemt Building Approval Commitee, will be a consultive organ to help the Chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:51] Moon Adamant: but JUST consultive
[2008/05/03 10:51] Jamie Palisades notes we will lose quorum soon and are way over alloted time. I believe Prin and Sonja’s questions have been answered. We are getting circular. Does anyone have any NEW questions?
[2008/05/03 10:51] You: ….
[2008/05/03 10:51] You: ….
[2008/05/03 10:52] Sonja Strom: If the Chancellor is acting based on a detailed plan approved beforehand by the RA, is there flexibility for the citizens to object to specific decisions?
[2008/05/03 10:52] Sonja Strom: Or to bring in new ideas, talents, participation?
[2008/05/03 10:52] You: BV ONLY PLEASE, let’s have the bill sponsor answer Sonja
[2008/05/03 10:52] Sonja Strom: OK
[2008/05/03 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand
[2008/05/03 10:53] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/05/03 10:53] You: BV, an answer to Sonja? A short one? Or not?
[2008/05/03 10:54] Beathan Vale: Sonja — not formally, but that is something that is worth adding — but I think that it could be brought tot he SC even without more language in the proposal
[2008/05/03 10:54] You: OK.
[2008/05/03 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: i have an idea
[2008/05/03 10:54] Beathan Vale: I will set this over a week and try to put something in the proposal
[2008/05/03 10:54] Moon Adamant still has her hand in the air
[2008/05/03 10:54] You: I have Prin, then Moon, and I suggest we either vote or postpone after that
[2008/05/03 10:54] Flyingroc Chung: SC is a black hole
[2008/05/03 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2008/05/03 10:54] Sonja Strom: Is there flexibility for the RA to bring in objections or ideas for changes?
[2008/05/03 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: the citizens all have a voice through the guild, i really think the chancellor should be adivised by the guild on these matters
[2008/05/03 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: not held to guild
[2008/05/03 10:54] Flyingroc Chung: (no offense to SC member present)
[2008/05/03 10:54] Beathan Vale: FR — that’s why I prefered a special hearing examiner
[2008/05/03 10:54] You: Prin, more? 60 seconds
[2008/05/03 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: but must at least hear them
[2008/05/03 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean i think the chancellor should have to listen to guild input before making the decision
[2008/05/03 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: there the citizens have a voice
[2008/05/03 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: all of them
[2008/05/03 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/05/03 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it’s part of the bill indeed)
[2008/05/03 10:55] Beathan Vale: TP — that is already in the bill —
[2008/05/03 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: then that answers sonja’s question
[2008/05/03 10:55] Moon Adamant: may i?
[2008/05/03 10:55] Sonja Strom: So the Guild would make a report and give that to the Chancellor to give its opinion?
[2008/05/03 10:56] You: yes please Moon
[2008/05/03 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees. It does answer Sonja’s question. Yes, Sonja, exactly.
[2008/05/03 10:56] Beathan Vale: yes — a the BAC in the guild
[2008/05/03 10:56] Moon Adamant: Sonja, first of all, Princess is right – all citizens can bring ideas through the Guild
[2008/05/03 10:56] Moon Adamant: and then consider too
[2008/05/03 10:56] You: (and I suggest we postpone, as BV said, after Moon speaks)
[2008/05/03 10:56] Moon Adamant: that atm we have TWO ways to do that
[2008/05/03 10:57] Moon Adamant: BAC, which aids the Chancellor
[2008/05/03 10:57] Beathan Vale: I have reviewed the bill — and it already provides for citizen appeal rights
[2008/05/03 10:57] Moon Adamant: and Masterplan WG, which is KEEN to have citizen’s input – thus the curveys, etc
[2008/05/03 10:57] Moon Adamant: surveys*
[2008/05/03 10:57] MT Lundquist: i’m afraid i have to go now
[2008/05/03 10:57] MT Lundquist: to a wedding
[2008/05/03 10:57] Moon Adamant: so, any citizen can join the masterplan WG
[2008/05/03 10:57] Beathan Vale: I am skeptical that we want the SC to hear appeals — rather than create a special hearing examiner position – but I am wiling to try this with our current institutions
[2008/05/03 10:57] MT Lundquist: bye all
[2008/05/03 10:57] Moon Adamant: done
[2008/05/03 10:57] Beathan Vale: bye
[2008/05/03 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye
[2008/05/03 10:57] Moon Adamant: bye MT!
[2008/05/03 10:58] You: thx 🙂
[2008/05/03 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: May I suggest that if all questions were clarified we move to vote it?
[2008/05/03 10:58] You: A few procedural notes. To FR on the possible presence of SC members here today – I will seek clarification on whether the overlap will continue. That’s a metter of interest to me, and relevant to our ‘conflict of interest’ bills pending. To Gwyn on the “premature vote” – actually MT asked his question after we began voting, in my record – but I agree with you that stopping the vote worked out fine, as a practical matter.
[2008/05/03 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: second GL
[2008/05/03 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we have to go in two mins
[2008/05/03 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn looks around for SC members and doesn’t find any.
[2008/05/03 10:58] Beathan Vale: I do want to make one change — changing “the citizen” to “a citizen”
[2008/05/03 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: k BV
[2008/05/03 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Taken as friendly, Beathan (I thought taht was a typo)
[2008/05/03 10:59] You: Gwyn, is that consistent with it being our first action item next week? Or are you saying, vote now?
[2008/05/03 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Vote now, yes.
[2008/05/03 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: now
[2008/05/03 10:59] You: ah
[2008/05/03 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why postpone, if there are no further questions?
[2008/05/03 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/05/03 10:59] Beathan Vale: ok
[2008/05/03 10:59] You: members – he says s l o w l y – are you ready to vote?
[2008/05/03 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: i hate to vote and run, but yes
[2008/05/03 10:59] Sonja Strom: sure
[2008/05/03 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I’m more ready to vote than ever in my live 😉
[2008/05/03 10:59] Beathan Vale: yes — with change from “the citizen” to “a citizen”
[2008/05/03 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nay, *eager*!
[2008/05/03 11:00] You: (grin) Members please state your note. I vote aye.
[2008/05/03 11:00] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/03 11:00] Sonja Strom: nay
[2008/05/03 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/05/03 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote aye
[2008/05/03 11:00] Flyingroc Chung: nay
[2008/05/03 11:00] You: 4-2-0
[2008/05/03 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: mt is afk, he will vote aye
[2008/05/03 11:00] Moon Adamant: passed?
[2008/05/03 11:00] Beathan Vale: yes passed
[2008/05/03 11:00] You: I declare it passed.
[2008/05/03 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: whoooooooooooooottttttttt
[2008/05/03 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/05/03 11:01] You: Shall we adjourn for today?
[2008/05/03 11:01] Beathan Vale: yes — election meeting to follow after I eat
[2008/05/03 11:01] You: 🙂 where, BV? Here in Rathaus?
[2008/05/03 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with either adjourning or continuing for another half hour
[2008/05/03 11:01] Beathan Vale: yes — here
[2008/05/03 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly I’m afraid I have to go at half past
[2008/05/03 11:02] You: Very well then – if no objections, we are adjourned, and thank you all
—-
[2008/05/03 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!
[2008/05/03 11:02] Moon Adamant: thank you all
[2008/05/03 11:02] Beathan Vale: election committee to meet in twenty minutes
[2008/05/03 11:02] You: and I hope we haven’t soured you on democracy permanently, Arthulius 😀
[2008/05/03 11:02] Sonja Strom: Thank you. Bye bye.
[2008/05/03 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/03 11:03] Beathan Vale: Democracy is the worst form of government in the world — except for all the others
[2008/05/03 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: both Arthulius & DivineLolita stood around until the end, stoicly so 🙂 Thanks for coming!
[2008/05/03 11:03] Moon Adamant: yes, thank you 🙂
[2008/05/03 11:03] You: BV, can you make sure to hook up with MT, Prin and Gwyn, whose ability to attend today is an issue?
[2008/05/03 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh btw FR — just for the record — I resigned from the SC *permanently* when running as a candidate
[2008/05/03 11:04] Flyingroc Chung: permanently?
[2008/05/03 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes of course
[2008/05/03 11:04] Sonja Strom: really, *permanently*?
[2008/05/03 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, lol
[2008/05/03 11:04] Sonja Strom: ok 🙂
[2008/05/03 11:04] Flyingroc Chung: just like I said I would never run for RA again 🙂
[2008/05/03 11:05] Sonja Strom: That will make Robert happy, I believe.
[2008/05/03 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This basically means that the SC, if tehy ever wish me back again (I suspect not!) they would have to invite me as a new candidate
[2008/05/03 11:05] You: But what is permanence? 😀 entropy’s overrated. Nothing *ever* ends. Cheers all
[2008/05/03 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I’m not accepting any offers until this term is over
[2008/05/03 11:05] Sonja Strom: Oh, I was thinking you meant *permanently*
[2008/05/03 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Resignation is permanent, Sonja 🙂
[2008/05/03 11:06] Sonja Strom: For me resignation is from a particular appointment.
[2008/05/03 11:06] Sonja Strom: Usually one can be appointed again later if circustances permit it.
[2008/05/03 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah sure
[2008/05/03 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The future is not in my hands, lol
[2008/05/03 11:06] Sonja Strom: right, understand.
[2008/05/03 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can only resign — not predict what happens — who knows, there might not be an SC in a year 😀
[2008/05/03 11:07] Flyingroc Chung: alright I need to shower
[2008/05/03 11:07] Sonja Strom: or an SL lol
[2008/05/03 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly, Sonja hehe
[2008/05/03 11:07] Flyingroc Chung: be back for beathans thing in a few
[
RA Meeting: May 10, 2008
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times: process for determining next meeting
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
— Set ruture meeting date for budget discussion.
— Set future schedule for Chancellor reports.
— Discuss charter & expected date for Election Commission work.
2. Ccnfirmation of SC appointment nominations (5 mins: 09h15 – 09h20)
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1848
4. Parliamentarian, etc. for RA (10 mins.: 09h40 – 09h50)
5. Conflicts of Interest, etc. (20 mins.: 09h50 – 10h10)
Review of open proposals & next steps (expected to be discussion only)
— Citizen bill from PMR Walpole: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1772
— Jamie’s proposal: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1836
— Beathan’s Term Limits redraft: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1827
— Additional proposals re: oath of office
— Additional proposals re: recusals
6. Private Development Proposal implementation (20 mins.: 10h10 – 10h30)
— reference: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p10980
— reference: /viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1848
8. Other?
9. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h40-10h55)
Adjournment: 10h55
Held in Colonia Nova Praetorium
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
Transcript: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1850
===
[09:11] Called to order.
[09:11] 1a – Call for assent to recording.
[09:11] 1b – Agenda reviewed and modified. (Not raised.)
[09:13] 1c – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[09:14] 1d – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[09:16] 1e – Future RA meeting schedule. (See posts on this, default time agreed.)
[09:16] 1f – Consent agenda. No items.
— Budget issue: [09:16] Agreed to invite Treasurer for a general budget chat on 24 May or 31 May meeting. Approved without dissent. [09:25]
— Chancellor reports: [09:26] Agreed to invite and request Chancellor to make his required monthly reports to the RA at the last regularly scheduled meeting of each calendar month, commencing 31 May. Approved without dissent. [09:29]
[09:30] 4 – (mislabeled as 2 in transcript) – RA secretary/parliamentarian – discussion only.
Request from Chancellor for webportal funding.
— Motion to approve at US$10/month made & seconded [09:27]. Approved unanimously [09:28].
[09:47] 2 – SC nominations.
— SC has asked we confirm proposed appointments of Dnate Mars and Cindy Ecksol. See:
/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1848
— General agreement to invite the nominees to RA before approving, as agenda item for next week.
[10:00] 3 – Commerce Commission.
— Significant discussion. Plan to redraft and re-present next week.
[10:48] Agenda modifications.
[10:49] 7 -LRA report on SC decision regarding RA rules of order etc.
[10:57] 9 – citizen comment / open mike.
— Various conflict of interest bill comments.
[11:02] Adjourned.
Transcript of 10 May 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Colonia Nova Praetorium
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====
[2008/05/10 9:06] You: good morning
[2008/05/10 9:06] MT Lundquist: hi
[2008/05/10 9:07] Jamie Palisades stands quirtly in the New SL, Now With Extra Lag …. looks at chairs … and waits for avs to rez so he does not sit on someone’s lap … again …
[2008/05/10 9:07] You: Hi, Slightly Irrerevent
[2008/05/10 9:08] Danton Sideways: Hi Jamie, Hi Beathan, hi again TP
[2008/05/10 9:08] You: Let me send an IM or two – I expect Sonja, but Gwyn sent regrets
[2008/05/10 9:08] You: oop – that she os
[2008/05/10 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja is online
[2008/05/10 9:08] Sonja Strom: hi everybody
[2008/05/10 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen is regrettable
[2008/05/10 9:08] You: BV, you’re able to stay?
[2008/05/10 9:08] You: You walking double entrendre you Prin
[2008/05/10 9:09] Sorry… busy…
[2008/05/10 9:09] Beathan Vale: yes — I did not make it to my seminar
[2008/05/10 9:09] Danton Sideways: Hi Sonja
[2008/05/10 9:09] Moon Adamant: hello everyone
[2008/05/10 9:09] Sonja Strom: 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:09] Sonja Strom: Hi Moon
[2008/05/10 9:10] Danton Sideways: Wow TP is levitating
[2008/05/10 9:10] You: Good morning all. Hi Moon. We’re quorate. Shall we start?
[2008/05/10 9:10] MT Lundquist: hi all again
[2008/05/10 9:10] Sonja Strom: I’m having trouble getting things to rez.
[2008/05/10 9:10] MT Lundquist: sorry just eating rl
[2008/05/10 9:10] Sonja Strom: but I can talk
[2008/05/10 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: its the incredible lightness i behold
[2008/05/10 9:10] You: 🙂 take your time Sonja
[2008/05/10 9:10] Moon Adamant: you’re slowly rezzing to me Sonja
[2008/05/10 9:11] Danton Sideways: a visual pun
—-
[2008/05/10 9:11] You: 🙂 OK, let;s call to order.
[2008/05/10 9:11] You: Agenda is posted at – viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1849
[2008/05/10 9:11] You: Welcome all.
—-
[2008/05/10 9:11] You: 1a
[2008/05/10 9:12] You: Would every one please assent to recording this session. I assent.
[2008/05/10 9:12] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/05/10 9:12] Danton Sideways: I assent
[2008/05/10 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent but i cant see beathan
[2008/05/10 9:12] Beathan Vale: I assent
[2008/05/10 9:12] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/05/10 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: are u next to rose beathan
[2008/05/10 9:12] Beathan Vale: no one want to see me anytway
[2008/05/10 9:13] You: 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: i do now
[2008/05/10 9:13] You: Will need recording assents from, I think, Moon, MT, and if they speak here Danton and Rose & Symo .. let’s go on
—-
[2008/05/10 9:13] You: 1c
[2008/05/10 9:13] MT Lundquist: assent
[2008/05/10 9:14] Rose Springvale: assent, but have no need to speak
[2008/05/10 9:14] You: Anyone here who is not an RA memebr who especially wants to spaek to today’s agenda?
[2008/05/10 9:14] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/05/10 9:14] You: OK then
—-
[2008/05/10 9:14] You: 1d
[2008/05/10 9:15] You: Routine notice – please read the posted transcript, let us know if anythings’s wrong 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:15] You: 1e – future times
[2008/05/10 9:15] Danton Sideways: Nothing wrong but
[2008/05/10 9:15] You: …? Danton
[2008/05/10 9:15] Danton Sideways: the transcript took a long time to be posted
[2008/05/10 9:15] Jamie Palisades grins I agree, and thanks- See agenda item 2, let’s discuss it there
—-
[2008/05/10 9:16] You: 1e –
[2008/05/10 9:16] Danton Sideways: ok
[2008/05/10 9:16] You: we’re settled on this tinme slot for now, so I can remove this routine agenda item I think
[2008/05/10 9:16] You: I do want us to go to biweekly (sigh) and will raise that as soon as our backlog seems under control (grin)
—-
[2008/05/10 9:16] You: 1f
[2008/05/10 9:17] You: Consent items – meaning, under our rules, quick noncontroversial stuff that requires no debate
[2008/05/10 9:17] You: I actually have some today 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:17] You: Welcome, Questor, open meeting, have a seat, but let uis know if you wish to speak please, under our rules of order
[2008/05/10 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: well is the fact that i dont get money from the chancellor one of those and how do i get the money for the guided tour
[2008/05/10 9:18] Quaestor Hax: TY
[2008/05/10 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: hes saying things like : oh yes you will get your money!
—-
[2008/05/10 9:18] You: 🙂 first item is budget issues
[2008/05/10 9:18] You: I have a bit of a report and suggestionm there
[2008/05/10 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: but i havent i mean i think i dont care who owns it i just want that thing done
[2008/05/10 9:18] You: first, let me mention to Prin that she will get communication about that reimbursement requiuest today.
[2008/05/10 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: but im not paying for it out of my pocket just cos of principlel
[2008/05/10 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/05/10 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi waves at Q
[2008/05/10 9:19] You: Second, let me point out that the general issue of budget changes and how to get paid/reimb’d is .. a little too informal, to my view 😀
[2008/05/10 9:19] You: so
[2008/05/10 9:19] You: I’ve asked our treasurer Sudane to do two things for us
[2008/05/10 9:20] You: one is to work on a slightly more transparent and predictable communication and tracking format for those paymebts – and –
[2008/05/10 9:20] You: I think it’s going to involve Google Docs and be announced shortly
[2008/05/10 9:21] You: that requires no RA action – but this second point does –
[2008/05/10 9:21] You: I would like Sudane to come and make a presentation to the RA on budgeting process
[2008/05/10 9:21] You: both where we are, and how we operate and change it
[2008/05/10 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: may i suggest the chancellor attend?
[2008/05/10 9:21] You: she’s happy to do so
[2008/05/10 9:22] You: and we should set a date *in advance* so we know RA members can attend, and others (as Prin points out wisely) might like to hear it too
[2008/05/10 9:22] You: so : How do the next four Saturdays look for you lot? Can we pick one, say at least 2 weeks away, and “put a stake in the ground”?
[2008/05/10 9:23] You: I think we ought to try and do it when everyone;s avail. And Moon, if you have access to your colleague Gwyn’s schedule, her availability would matter too
[2008/05/10 9:23] You: Ideally we should have two dates, then make sure Su and Alexi also can attend
[2008/05/10 9:23] Jamie Palisades looks at calendar
[2008/05/10 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: and mostly the chancellor please more than us even
[2008/05/10 9:23] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/05/10 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: mt and i are available both days
[2008/05/10 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: all four
[2008/05/10 9:23] Moon Adamant: well, Gwyn’s schedule is always a bit full
[2008/05/10 9:24] Moon Adamant: but i’ll tell her to talk to you directly Jamie
[2008/05/10 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: wiat next weekend isnt good sorry
[2008/05/10 9:24] Moon Adamant: as said, i do not control other people’s time
[2008/05/10 9:24] You: hm ladies & gents, what would you say to … 24 May and 31 May as our target dates
[2008/05/10 9:24] You: I understand Moon, just thought I;d ask as a courtesy 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:25] You: anyone know they have conflicts on the 24th or 31st?
[2008/05/10 9:25] Sonja Strom: let me get my calendar – right back
[2008/05/10 9:25] Beathan Vale: I don’t know yet
[2008/05/10 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: those are good to us
[2008/05/10 9:25] You: I suggest we move on to the 2nd consentitem while others look.
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: (and thx Sonja, BV – hey I hope us to reduce meeting load shortly, which I hope will help.)
—-
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: 2d item
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: We need a regular plan for the Chancellor to report to us
[2008/05/10 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: its a constituitional requirement
[2008/05/10 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: that he do so
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: Indeed
[2008/05/10 9:26] You: 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:26] Sonja Strom: I don’t have any conflicts on the 24th or 31st.
[2008/05/10 9:27] You: I suggest we do this, and ask for your approval:
[2008/05/10 9:27] You: Alexi suggested to me that he routinely come to the last meeting ecah calendar month.
[2008/05/10 9:27] You: SO I would like us to adopt a resolution accepting and requesting that he do so, and I will reference the dates and times
[2008/05/10 9:28] You: 🙂 this will give us a basis for further conversation, if he proves unable to join us
[2008/05/10 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: yes .. second
[2008/05/10 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear
[2008/05/10 9:28] You: 🙂 any objections? Is that generally acceptable?
[2008/05/10 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: that sounds great
[2008/05/10 9:29] Jamie Palisades hears no objection …
[2008/05/10 9:29] Sonja Strom: sounds good.
[2008/05/10 9:29] You: OK, passes w/o dissent. Thx. I will post it to the forums and msg Alexicon.
[2008/05/10 9:29] You: and in lieu of any objection, let’s ask Su and Alexi for the 24th or 31st for that budget chat
[2008/05/10 9:29] You: I will do so and report back to you
[2008/05/10 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: yes that sounds good
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: next item
—-
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: 2
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: :)_ Danton’s telepathic
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: Your LRA thinks he needs help, ladies and gentlemen
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: so
[2008/05/10 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: im here
[2008/05/10 9:30] You: I raise the following issue,m which we had discussed before briefly but never really sorted out
[2008/05/10 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi throws a handcuff at beathan
[2008/05/10 9:31] You: — do I/we need a secretary/scribe, and do I/we need a parlimentarian?
[2008/05/10 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: that would be nice yes
[2008/05/10 9:31] Danton Sideways: How do I ask for permission to speak on this?
[2008/05/10 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: just did
[2008/05/10 9:31] You: I have been bootlegging this LRA thing so far, grin
[2008/05/10 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: and well
[2008/05/10 9:32] Jamie Palisades grins, yes, Danton you did, and thanks. Go ahead please
[2008/05/10 9:32] Danton Sideways: Just to say that I checked again, and the transcripts still seem to missing from the forum?
[2008/05/10 9:32] Danton Sideways: *for last week?
[2008/05/10 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: they are on the wiki? no?
[2008/05/10 9:32] You: hm thx – which ones? I put everythign I have into the board ‘RA announcements’
[2008/05/10 9:33] You: I have *never* got write permission to the wiki .. sigh .. it;s not an officially ownred resource
[2008/05/10 9:33] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2008/05/10 9:33] You: Danton, you had more? if not, then Rose is next
[2008/05/10 9:33] Danton Sideways: Ok I looked at the wrong category sorry
[2008/05/10 9:33] You: np 🙂 but I HAVE been slow on that Danton. Rose?
[2008/05/10 9:34] Rose Springvale: i just wanted to share a tool that Gwyn shared with me a long time ago, just posted the transcript of my last meeting, which ended half an hour ago
[2008/05/10 9:34] Rose Springvale: http://gwynethllewelyn.net/colour-code/
[2008/05/10 9:34] You: Love to have it, thanks.
[2008/05/10 9:34] Rose Springvale: it takes all the junk out of the transcript for you
[2008/05/10 9:34] You: That was a Guild group, I gather? Thanks for that
[2008/05/10 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: FR
[2008/05/10 9:35] Rose Springvale: just copy your log, then paste into the box, and then the copy is ready to post
[2008/05/10 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i got the monkey
[2008/05/10 9:35] Rose Springvale: yes, a sub committee meeting
[2008/05/10 9:35] MT Lundquist: hi fr
[2008/05/10 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: hehe
[2008/05/10 9:35] Sonja Strom: hi FR
[2008/05/10 9:35] Flyingroc Chung: hi, sorry for being late
[2008/05/10 9:35] Danton Sideways: Hey tweeter
[2008/05/10 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: no naked dancing then for you
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: Morning Roc, please assent to recording, agenda’s in the usual forum place
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: Thanks Rose I will explore that
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: but
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: back to my point
[2008/05/10 9:35] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:35] You: ‘I think LRA needs some help’
[2008/05/10 9:36] Flyingroc Chung: I assent to recording
[2008/05/10 9:36] You: always – but at least in my case 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:36] You: so
[2008/05/10 9:36] You: three things
[2008/05/10 9:36] You: 1. should I just use the Rose/Gwyn device for a few weeks, and we will see if transcript posting speeds up? or is there other action to be taken about that?
[2008/05/10 9:37] You: if I hear nothing, we’ll just proceed that way for now
[2008/05/10 9:37] Moon Adamant: /m e raises her hand
[2008/05/10 9:37] You: …please, Moon
[2008/05/10 9:37] You: 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:37] Moon Adamant: why doesn’t the RA create a Secretary role?
[2008/05/10 9:37] Moon Adamant: that takes note of motions and votes?
[2008/05/10 9:37] Flyingroc Chung: there is supposed to be an RA Arcivist
[2008/05/10 9:37] Moon Adamant: it can even circle between the REps
[2008/05/10 9:38] Moon Adamant: yes, FR, i know
[2008/05/10 9:38] Moon Adamant: but i am not sure if that role was ever filled
[2008/05/10 9:38] You: Fair question. what do you lot think? Would one – or all – of you be willing to do this? Or shall we put that Q on the table and wait a bit and see?
[2008/05/10 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think thats a good idea
[2008/05/10 9:39] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: nope.. i dont think anyone knows how difficult it is to REALLY be active in RA and i cannot imagine us being responsible for that and doing our duty at the same time
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: when things go fast .. in debates
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: no i dont think one of us can do that i cant and i dont think MT can ..
[2008/05/10 9:39] Moon Adamant: i dunno why Princess
[2008/05/10 9:39] You: hmm – I suggest we talk more a bit about it offline in groups and then come back to it. Not going to resolve it quickly today it seems.
[2008/05/10 9:39] Moon Adamant: that’s how we do it at The Guild
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: well you arent me .. the guild is not the RA
[2008/05/10 9:39] You: Rose had more? Any other last words on tis for now?
[2008/05/10 9:39] Moon Adamant: who has agendas as big as RA’s
[2008/05/10 9:39] Rose Springvale: yes
[2008/05/10 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: its much more quick……
[2008/05/10 9:39] Rose Springvale: it is very easy to turn on chat log
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: have you been in RA its nto the same as guild
[2008/05/10 9:40] Rose Springvale: adn participate fully
[2008/05/10 9:40] Jamie Palisades smiles and listens .. for about 2 more minutes
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: but stopping to d that
[2008/05/10 9:40] Rose Springvale: so anyone can do it, then take a few minutes afterward to clean and post
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think its for the guild to tell ME how do to this, shut up rose and moon
[2008/05/10 9:40] Moon Adamant: For your information Princess, i was already a Rep in this RA .)
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: shut up moon
[2008/05/10 9:40] Rose Springvale: excuse me, i thought i had the floor
[2008/05/10 9:40] Moon Adamant: kindly speak to me in a polite manner
[2008/05/10 9:40] Quaestor Hax: /eeps
[2008/05/10 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: no i wont til you act nice too you fool
[2008/05/10 9:41] Moon Adamant: i call thye present to witness what is being said
[2008/05/10 9:41] You: ahem
[2008/05/10 9:41] Rose Springvale: sigh
[2008/05/10 9:41] Beathan Vale: ::sigh::
[2008/05/10 9:41] You: Prin, ‘shut up’s not part of our usual manner of keeping order here
[2008/05/10 9:41] Rose Springvale: she’s gone
[2008/05/10 9:41] You: May I ask that Moon finish uninterrupted for 30 secs, then Prin, then Rose, then let’s move on
[2008/05/10 9:42] You: she can come back if she likes 🙂 no one has ejected anyone
[2008/05/10 9:42] Moon Adamant: i apologize to the assembled RA
[2008/05/10 9:42] Moon Adamant: i was suggesting a process we use at the Guild which is most efficient
[2008/05/10 9:42] Moon Adamant: but of course, the RA is sovereign to decide their procedures
[2008/05/10 9:42] Moon Adamant: done
[2008/05/10 9:42] You: thx
[2008/05/10 9:43] You: Prin’s absent for themoment. Rose? More?
[2008/05/10 9:43] Rose Springvale: i was finished .. just suggesting its easy to turn on chat log for a meeting. doesn’t take any time from participation
[2008/05/10 9:43] You: thx. next item
[2008/05/10 9:43] You: We’re a little behind, as always, and I have further aggravated this by accidentally reversing agenda items 2 and 4. I suggest we finish off 4 (this one) then go to 2.
[2008/05/10 9:44] You: all that’s left here is parliamentarian. Here is my take:
[2008/05/10 9:45] You: I think I need someone to keep an eye on the rules. I think it would need to be someone who can speak at meetings here, and may or may not be an RA member, so I plan to bring a bill to permit that. But such a person would not vote, make motions, etc. (if not an RA member).
[2008/05/10 9:45] You: So .. 🙂 proposed bill coming. Any comment?
[2008/05/10 9:45] You: (And no I do not have a recruit yet)
[2008/05/10 9:45] Beathan Vale: have you asked Justice?
[2008/05/10 9:45] You: Well, BV, he is an SC member.
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: Turns out he did not resign – as Prin and I discovered yestreday
[2008/05/10 9:46] MT Lundquist: so the parliamentarian could keep the minutes as just discussed
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: that’s also possible
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: just wanted to run it by you folks first for any reactions
[2008/05/10 9:46] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: ready for next item?
[2008/05/10 9:46] You: back to the agenda order 🙂 sigh
[2008/05/10 9:47] Justice Soothsayer: ave, citizens, and I consent to recording.
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: Hello Justice, please assent to being recorded, welcome.
[2008/05/10 9:47] Flyingroc Chung: is there anyone who is not RA willing to actuallydo it?
—-
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: 2
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: FR: maybe, but I can’t recruit into an undefined task
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: 2
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: SC nominations
[2008/05/10 9:47] You: here’s the URL from our agenda:
[2008/05/10 9:48] You: /viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1848
[2008/05/10 9:48] You: SC nominates new member of the SC, and RA confirms them.
[2008/05/10 9:48] You: Let me mention several things just for our records and common understanding
[2008/05/10 9:49] You: – we were informed recently that Gwyneth resigned SC when she became an RA candidate.
[2008/05/10 9:49] You: So they’ve lost one
[2008/05/10 9:49] You: – we also were informed recently that Justice did not – and he’s here BTW – so he’s still on the SC.
[2008/05/10 9:49] You: and finally
[2008/05/10 9:49] MT Lundquist: didnt justice resign too
[2008/05/10 9:49] Justice Soothsayer: No, Justice never resigned.
[2008/05/10 9:50] Justice Soothsayer: Justice promised to resign from SC if elected to the RA.
[2008/05/10 9:50] MT Lundquist: oh i thought you did
[2008/05/10 9:50] Justice Soothsayer: But, sadly, I was not elected. 😉
[2008/05/10 9:50] Jamie Palisades thinks that’s a good topic for discussion … when we get to conflicts of interest
[2008/05/10 9:50] You: so
[2008/05/10 9:50] You: for now
[2008/05/10 9:50] You: we have two appointments to approve
[2008/05/10 9:50] You: Cindy Ecksol and Dnate Mars
[2008/05/10 9:50] MT Lundquist: wb
[2008/05/10 9:51] You: 🙂 and I have a suggestion
[2008/05/10 9:51] You: which I suspect will annoy some
[2008/05/10 9:51] You: I do not see either candidate here
[2008/05/10 9:51] Beathan Vale: preparing to be annoyed
[2008/05/10 9:51] You: I suggets we invite them to cme speak with us, and decline to act until they do
[2008/05/10 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed
[2008/05/10 9:51] Beathan Vale: I am annoyed
[2008/05/10 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: am very happy
[2008/05/10 9:51] Beathan Vale: I see no reason for that — we know them both — why delay?
[2008/05/10 9:52] Flyingroc Chung: Hm
[2008/05/10 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: because we dont know thier motives
[2008/05/10 9:52] Flyingroc Chung: I had to come to the RA when I became SC
[2008/05/10 9:52] Beathan Vale: motives for wanting to take an active part in our community through the SC?
[2008/05/10 9:52] Beathan Vale: OK — FR —
[2008/05/10 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: indded FR we deserve that at least i am annoyed at beathan for his annoyance
[2008/05/10 9:52] Beathan Vale: lol
[2008/05/10 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: jk
[2008/05/10 9:52] Beathan Vale: fine — let’s hold hearings
[2008/05/10 9:52] MT Lundquist: who can i be annoyed at
[2008/05/10 9:53] You: 🙂 I am aware of no defect in either one
[2008/05/10 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: me usually
[2008/05/10 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: cindy has lots of defects
[2008/05/10 9:53] Flyingroc Chung: the SC agenda isn’t all that packed.
[2008/05/10 9:53] Beathan Vale: well — Dnate is blue – is that a defect?
[2008/05/10 9:53] You: and I caution you that our laws limit the reasons why we would approve or disapprove
[2008/05/10 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: yes dnate is blue and that is true, he was one time little red riding hood too
[2008/05/10 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: that concrrns me greatly
[2008/05/10 9:53] You: but I think a short comment from each before we vote would lbe reasonable 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:54] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/05/10 9:54] You: well, no, being blue is a lifesstyle choice …
[2008/05/10 9:54] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/05/10 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: he carried a bastket throught the woods dressed as a little girl
[2008/05/10 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: to entice wolves
[2008/05/10 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: its true
[2008/05/10 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: and now blue anad and again
[2008/05/10 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: blue red blue
[2008/05/10 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: itrs true
[2008/05/10 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: id like to hear his explaination
[2008/05/10 9:55] You: would anyone like to move the approval of the candidates now? or shall I invited them to next week?
[2008/05/10 9:56] Beathan Vale: next week is fine
[2008/05/10 9:56] MT Lundquist: next week so we can hear them speak
[2008/05/10 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: rose can make a nice invitation
[2008/05/10 9:56] You: and can I ask Justice , as an SC member, if he sees any issues with that approach?
[2008/05/10 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: personally i dont see why we care what they think
[2008/05/10 9:56] You: No, Prin, sadly, CDS hounded Rose out of office, so we no longer can use her skills 🙂
[2008/05/10 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: darn!
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: she was hounded.. lmao?
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: what a lie mr. LRA
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: she quit and alexicon asked her to be PIO and she said no
[2008/05/10 9:57] You: Justice? Any comments? Heh – on our approval plan
[2008/05/10 9:57] You: ahem – let’s leave it, hm TP?
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: and now insits on being a bitch
[2008/05/10 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: yes sir
[2008/05/10 9:57] Justice Soothsayer: no, no comments at this time,
[2008/05/10 9:58] You: ‘bitch’? OK. I am going to wait for Justice to offer any remarks, or decline, and thenfeal with that.
[2008/05/10 9:58] You: Ok thx Justice.
[2008/05/10 9:58] You: ThePrincess, I ask you to retract that out of order remark – which has no place here, hm?
[2008/05/10 9:58] You: I don’t see meanspirited namecalling as productive in the RA.
[2008/05/10 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: ok ill explain. that is a personal opinion of her behavior to me alone in the past few onths and it was uncalled for an inappropriate in this venue
[2008/05/10 9:58] Rose Springvale: its okay, i’ll just go
[2008/05/10 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i apologize
[2008/05/10 9:59] You: Thank you Prin. No need Rose, up to you, this is an open meeting.
[2008/05/10 9:59] You: Item closed.
[2008/05/10 9:59] You: next item
[2008/05/10 9:59] You: (oh, and yes, I’ll send invites to Cindy and Dnate) for next week
—-
[2008/05/10 10:00] You: 3
[2008/05/10 10:00] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/10 10:00] You: Commerce Commission
[2008/05/10 10:00] You: Where are we, MT?
[2008/05/10 10:00] Danton Sideways: mumbles
[2008/05/10 10:00] MT Lundquist: the commerce commission report has been posted for sometime now
[2008/05/10 10:00] You: OK, but are we ready to act?
[2008/05/10 10:00] MT Lundquist: it represents the collective views of the citizens of many factions who attended the meetings
[2008/05/10 10:01] MT Lundquist: i stress it is not only my view or that of NuCARE
[2008/05/10 10:01] MT Lundquist: rather of the citizens
[2008/05/10 10:01] MT Lundquist: there are I know some contriversial elements that need to be discussed at RA
[2008/05/10 10:01] MT Lundquist: I hand it over for that discussion
[2008/05/10 10:02] You: Let me ask two process questions. First, is this a constitutional issue?
[2008/05/10 10:02] You: I ask because it affects the voting, etc.
[2008/05/10 10:02] MT Lundquist: no i dont think so
[2008/05/10 10:03] You: OK – though I could imagine us getting into that in the context of taking property
[2008/05/10 10:03] MT Lundquist: and maybe the elements should be considered seperately
[2008/05/10 10:03] You: which is my second Q 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:03] You: Hello WIdget, welcome, this is an open meeting, but we have rules of order, so let me know if you wish to speak please/.
[2008/05/10 10:03] Widget Whiteberry: thank you Jamie, thank you every one
[2008/05/10 10:04] You: Q2: have the disagreements about whether the plan to take some private property been sorted out? I know there’s disagreement. I just wonder: is this the right time to work on those here? (If so, great.)
[2008/05/10 10:04] MT Lundquist: i would suggest we discuss it as it was proposed by some
[2008/05/10 10:05] Beathan Vale: I am opposed to the taking provision — the bill is generally fine — but I know that a majority of citizens do not like the taking provision
[2008/05/10 10:05] MT Lundquist: and it was a point for consideration in Pats bill
[2008/05/10 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: well i have a qustion .. what do you propose we do about people who do not comply with the convenent
[2008/05/10 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: covenent
[2008/05/10 10:05] You: OK. Thanks. Hm. Just for reference, MT, this is still your current bill, yes: — viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611
[2008/05/10 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: its as simple as there is a covenent and if its not complied with……..what do we do as a community?
[2008/05/10 10:06] MT Lundquist: just checking
[2008/05/10 10:06] Beathan Vale: TP — I have proposed a tier rent process –charge double rent for lack of compliance
[2008/05/10 10:06] Danton Sideways: I request to speak when appropriate
[2008/05/10 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: how does that help anything
[2008/05/10 10:06] MT Lundquist: it was Pats bill i headed the commision
[2008/05/10 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: they just pay ten dollars not five
[2008/05/10 10:06] MT Lundquist: but yes thats it
[2008/05/10 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: the bill came from your party Danton
[2008/05/10 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan that is not a remedy we dont need five dollars we need a sim that is vibrant
[2008/05/10 10:07] You: We “can” do a number of things if we choose – including penalty rent as BV says – and zoning enforcement – and imposing special requirements on any new buyers when land opens up
[2008/05/10 10:07] Beathan Vale: stripping a citizen of property is never acceptable — esepcially as voting rights aer linked to prop ownership — the bill will not pass SC muster as is — it is unconstitutional
[2008/05/10 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: comepletely unacceptable response sir
[2008/05/10 10:07] You: hmmm let’s have a speaking queue, hm?
[2008/05/10 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: so how do we act if a covenent is not met
[2008/05/10 10:08] Danton Sideways: er hem
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: what do we do a bout other covenent issues
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: I suggest we take turns and limit to 2 minutes for now
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: oh gosh jamie
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: let us talk ffs
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: Prin, you first
[2008/05/10 10:08] Beathan Vale: TP — iRL there are penalties and fines — not confiscation of property — why not here
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: you cant talk that way its a back and forth thing conversation
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: I agree Prin – WHEN people aren’t all stepping on each other’s words, grin
[2008/05/10 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: no thats not true eventually you lose the proerty ..and NO one ever said TAKE it they said trade
[2008/05/10 10:08] You: did you have more comments, just yet?
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: if a person wants residential property use, then give them that
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i do
[2008/05/10 10:09] Beathan Vale: TP — no you only lose the property if you don’t pay the fines — I do this stuff for al iving
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: if i buy commericial land and treat it as prim land or residentilal, then lets trade them for what they use it for
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: i know ” BEATHAN IS A LAWYER”
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: well beathan i think this isnt rl
[2008/05/10 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: and we have a only a few lots in CDS
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: and some are commercial and they need to be used as such
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: if someone buys it and dosent
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: then give them what they use if ofot
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: it for
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: or get rid of our covenents and call it mainland
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: and then we take what we get
[2008/05/10 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/05/10 10:10] Jamie Palisades smiles quietly, noting the current RA rules of order which provide for time limits and speaker rotation, thanks ThePrincess for her comments and looks next to MT, then expecting to ask Beathan and Danton …
[2008/05/10 10:10] You: More for now, MT?
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: ok well i propose that we deal with each recommendation in turn
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: we have started at the end
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: Propose that the RA form a Chamber of Commerce for CDS. That this Chamber be made up of volunteer members from those holding and using for commercial purposes commercial land in CDS. That the leader of the Chamber of Commerce be elected by the members of the Chamber of Commerce every six months. That the Chamber of Commerce:
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: is the first recommendation
[2008/05/10 10:11] Jamie Palisades thinks that is a great idea – and suspects that BV’s and Danton’s concerns will be dealt with in turn if we proceed that way. Can we ask MT to take us through it section by section?
[2008/05/10 10:11] MT Lundquist: this would be to promote commerce
[2008/05/10 10:12] Beathan Vale: second
[2008/05/10 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: good idea
[2008/05/10 10:12] MT Lundquist: 1) supports the business community and advocates for its members by creating a strong local economy. Supporting the existing shop owners (by having the CDS launch promotional events and do some advertising; 2) promotes the community. Attracting new content creators willing to open a shop in the CDS; sponsoring events to attract customers; weekly social event shop promotion/events 3) provides networking opportunities. Financing a promotional campaign grid-wide to let the SL residents know that the CDS is a shopping destination for high quality products (and services). 4) represents the interests of business with government; 5) supports business-friendly ballot measures and evaluates candidates for public office.
[2008/05/10 10:12] MT Lundquist: that would be the job description of the chamber as such
[2008/05/10 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: how does this relate to the old chamber of commerce
[2008/05/10 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: ?
[2008/05/10 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: it was called something else
[2008/05/10 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: pat did it and let it flounder
[2008/05/10 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: from what i heard
[2008/05/10 10:13] MT Lundquist: i propose that we use this for the future
[2008/05/10 10:13] Flyingroc Chung: http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-ind … ge=NL+4-14
[2008/05/10 10:13] MT Lundquist: endorsed by the ra
[2008/05/10 10:13] Jamie Palisades mutters: Merchant Assn or Merchant Guild I think
[2008/05/10 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: pat discussed it at the meeting .. he was there FR
[2008/05/10 10:14] Danton Sideways: I have a minor point of order here
[2008/05/10 10:14] Flyingroc Chung: Section 1: The Neualtenburg Chamber of Commerce (Chamber of Commerce) is an institution under the auspices of the Guild, which is chartered with the responsibility of maintaining a public registry of companies, their securities and obligations (the Register).
[2008/05/10 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: Pat was involved in the commerce commission meting a few of them
[2008/05/10 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: the guild? thats like the guild we have now? i dont understand
[2008/05/10 10:15] Moon Adamant: no, not the current Guild
[2008/05/10 10:15] MT Lundquist: well the chamber would have a slightly different remit to promote commerce
[2008/05/10 10:15] You: hmmm MT – where’s the text that we actually would make a new bill that creates the CofC? Sorry, I may be just dim today. While you find that, I will go look & see what else we’d have to *repeal*
[2008/05/10 10:15] MT Lundquist: as noted above in chat
[2008/05/10 10:15] Beathan Vale: FR – this brings it back into existence on terms that make more sense in our current structure
[2008/05/10 10:15] Danton Sideways: Please LRA I have a point of order
[2008/05/10 10:15] MT Lundquist: if the ra wants to progress this then i can create a bill if not i can drop it
[2008/05/10 10:16] You: Hang on a sec all, please 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:16] You: Danton, did you have a pertinent question?
[2008/05/10 10:16] Danton Sideways: The recognized speakers were beathen then myself
[2008/05/10 10:16] Danton Sideways: *recognized
[2008/05/10 10:17] Flyingroc Chung: yay process
[2008/05/10 10:17] Beathan Vale: I favor considering this bill in parts — but I will vote any on any form of confiscation of citizen property — it is susceptivle to manipulation (which would take people off the voter roles pprior to an election) and is just plain wrong
[2008/05/10 10:18] You: I acknowledge this, and we do get a litle informal sometimes, but in the interests of productive progress, I hope. Hadn’t forgotton, and I think that last thread exhasuted itself. This is a good time for your comments, Danton, but note that we’re talking at the moment about the Cof C part and *not* the property-taking part. That’s how we decided to approach this item 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:18] Beathan Vale: there are alternatives — as as long as there is any alternative, even if perceived as “:inadequate” -0 it is a better alternative that public theft of private property
[2008/05/10 10:18] Beathan Vale: done
[2008/05/10 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: hello!
[2008/05/10 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: one can remain a citizen if they leave cds with no land hun
[2008/05/10 10:18] You: BV, IF we are going to take about taking, it;s Danton’s turn, grin
[2008/05/10 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: its a totally invalid point
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: one can stay a citizen without land
[2008/05/10 10:19] Beathan Vale: TP — no that is not true
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry.. did i speak out of turn
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: that is too true
[2008/05/10 10:19] Danton Sideways: Well I just want to speak briefly especially because I have to leave in 10 minutes
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: we passed the law during your term
[2008/05/10 10:19] Jamie Palisades notes that apparently the desire to talk about property taking is overwhelmibng MT’s suggestion to go one item at a time — everyone OK with that?
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: we can leave our land and pay 100l a month
[2008/05/10 10:19] You: and *please*, Danton has a time limit and came to us to speak, let’s let him. Please do, Danton.
[2008/05/10 10:19] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and stay a citizen
[2008/05/10 10:19] Flyingroc Chung: just jump in danton, if you dont interrupt you wont be able to say anything 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:19] MT Lundquist: i would rather do it one at a time as the first is less contraversial
[2008/05/10 10:19] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:20] Danton Sideways: Ok I have two issues for which I am personally a case study
[2008/05/10 10:20] Danton Sideways: One is that my house is in Colonia Nova commercial area
[2008/05/10 10:20] Danton Sideways: the other is that I want to use my shop for non-profit activities
[2008/05/10 10:20] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/05/10 10:21] Danton Sideways: I think the second issue is more critical
[2008/05/10 10:21] You: (Danton has the floor – noting Moon next)
[2008/05/10 10:21] MT Lundquist: they both need to be discussed
[2008/05/10 10:21] Danton Sideways: I can always relocate my house, but I would rather ask for an exemption or something 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:21] Danton Sideways: but I am determined to use my shop for non-profit purposes
[2008/05/10 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi whispers you wont need to cos that is considered business
[2008/05/10 10:21] Danton Sideways: Finished
[2008/05/10 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: so dont worry danton
[2008/05/10 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: we are concerened with empty lots
[2008/05/10 10:22] You: Prin? Moon’s next
[2008/05/10 10:22] Moon Adamant: if i may….
[2008/05/10 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: well i wanted him to know he needent worry
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: If i recall correctly, the city of Colonia Nova accumulates residential with commercial function
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: meaning, you can have shops or houses
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: insulae*
[2008/05/10 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: yes moon not many lots are stricktly commercial and i think dantons isnt ieven im not sure
[2008/05/10 10:23] Beathan Vale: yes — my house is so zoned
[2008/05/10 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i think only the lots right on the forum is only commerical
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: i believe only Stalls are strictly commercial
[2008/05/10 10:23] You: um, is Moon done?
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: but it’s a question to read teh covenant
[2008/05/10 10:23] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/05/10 10:23] You: thx for that
[2008/05/10 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: correct moon she makes a good point
[2008/05/10 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: and one ive told danton twice
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: we seem to be on the last, most controversial topic, in spite of MT’s efforts and mine, grin
[2008/05/10 10:24] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/10 10:24] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: shall we stay with it anyway, then?
[2008/05/10 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: im having a bad day sorry
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: NP
[2008/05/10 10:24] MT Lundquist: ok then go back please
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: so
[2008/05/10 10:24] Beathan Vale: let’s vote on this last topic first
[2008/05/10 10:24] You: hmmmmm
[2008/05/10 10:24] Beathan Vale: if it fails, MT may want to revise the bill
[2008/05/10 10:25] MT Lundquist: It was felt important that a definition of commercial activity be established before judging whether land is in commercial use. The following definition is suggested for adoption by the RA. Commerce is a division of trade or production which deals with the exchange of goods and services from producer to final consumer. It comprises the trading of something of economic such as goods, services, information or money between two or more entities.
[2008/05/10 10:25] You: well can MT summarize what *currently* happens under that last bit of the bill?
[2008/05/10 10:25] MT Lundquist: i’ll copy the elements to chat
[2008/05/10 10:25] MT Lundquist: That commerce, as defined, must occur on the commercial lots on a weekly basis and be demonstratable on request to the Chamber of Commerce. That this be a level of traffic (as shown in ‘about land’) of a minumim of 3 (no campers). That if commercial activity as defined does not occur to the satisfaction of the Chamber of Commerce thatthe following remedies can be applied
[2008/05/10 10:25] MT Lundquist: That the commercial lot owner is to raise the traffic to the required level within a three week period; If the commercial criteria are not satisfied within the three week period the Chamber of Commerce can require the commercial lot owner to sell back the lot to the CDS government for market rate; The Chamber of Commerce is then required to sell the commercial lot to another commercial trader.
[2008/05/10 10:26] MT Lundquist: the traffic item was raised specifically by some citizens
[2008/05/10 10:26] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/05/10 10:26] Danton Sideways: Goodbye everyone 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:26] You: When MT’s done we will have questions
[2008/05/10 10:26] MT Lundquist: bye danton
[2008/05/10 10:26] You: Thanks for coming Danton
[2008/05/10 10:26] Moon Adamant nods
[2008/05/10 10:26] Sonja Strom: goodbye Danton 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:26] Widget Whiteberry: Good bye, Danton
[2008/05/10 10:26] Moon Adamant: bye Danton 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:27] MT Lundquist: thats the recommendation
[2008/05/10 10:27] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:27] You: Summarizing: MT has a planned motion, in the form set out in chat text above, to create a definition of commercial activity AND a way to adjudicate it (CoC) AND a penalty for failing: noncomplying owner loses their lot, by forced sale back to CDS. Do I have that about right?
[2008/05/10 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: the penalty is not correct jamie
[2008/05/10 10:28] MT Lundquist: the coc can require
[2008/05/10 10:28] MT Lundquist: doesnt have to require
[2008/05/10 10:28] You: ahhh
[2008/05/10 10:28] You: got it
[2008/05/10 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: that needs to be reworded though
[2008/05/10 10:28] Beathan Vale: sounds like an excuse for arbitrary and capicious action
[2008/05/10 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: 1. they will NOT lose citizenship
[2008/05/10 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont like how its worded at all
[2008/05/10 10:29] Flyingroc Chung: I dont like giving the chamber of commerce the power to force the sale of of someone’s land.
[2008/05/10 10:29] MT Lundquist: as i said if we want a bill i will reword as required by the RA discussion
[2008/05/10 10:29] You: I suggest we take it as a motion, get a second, then discuss, starting with the politely-waiting Moon
[2008/05/10 10:29] You: or it it too early for a motion MT?
[2008/05/10 10:29] You: *is
[2008/05/10 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont eithe rFR but there must some way to enforce the covenent what do you fine people suggest?
[2008/05/10 10:29] MT Lundquist: the idea was it to be for discussion at this stage
[2008/05/10 10:29] You: OK – NP then.
[2008/05/10 10:29] Beathan Vale: TP –doubling rent
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: I have the following people who apparently wish to speak …
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:30] MT Lundquist: those items that the RA likes be taken forward and represented as a bill(s)
[2008/05/10 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: how does that help beathan it WILL not solve the problem
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: Moon, FR, Prin, BV
[2008/05/10 10:30] Moon Adamant raises hand
[2008/05/10 10:30] Moon Adamant: 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: someppl will just pay the extra they dont care its pennies
[2008/05/10 10:30] You: *sigh* Moon first please?
[2008/05/10 10:30] Beathan Vale: TP — so let them
[2008/05/10 10:30] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/05/10 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: that doesnt solve the problem
[2008/05/10 10:30] Moon Adamant: my comment – or rather a question – is
[2008/05/10 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: chat lag sorry
[2008/05/10 10:31] Moon Adamant: what is being proposed is an Eminentt domain Bill that is placed in action by the Chamber of Commerce?
[2008/05/10 10:31] Moon Adamant: Eminent Domain*, sorry
[2008/05/10 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: no not really
[2008/05/10 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: not at all moon
[2008/05/10 10:31] MT Lundquist: I assume thats a USA law
[2008/05/10 10:31] Beathan Vale: Moon — yes — private organization can strip private property — it’s insane
[2008/05/10 10:31] Moon Adamant: if the Coc can remove land ownership
[2008/05/10 10:31] Moon Adamant: then it’s Eminent Domain
[2008/05/10 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: no on esaid remove we said swap
[2008/05/10 10:32] Moon Adamant: doesn’t that conflict with the functions of any of teh Gov Branches?
[2008/05/10 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: The proposed bill says “sale”
[2008/05/10 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: swap for the use they are setting out
[2008/05/10 10:32] Beathan Vale: Moon — good point
[2008/05/10 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: “Chamber of Commerce can require the commercial lot owner to sell back the lot to the CDS government for market rate;”
[2008/05/10 10:32] Beathan Vale: FR — it is a taking and resale —
[2008/05/10 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: It doesnt say swap
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: so how on earth do you solve the problem other than ………..your idea beathan which doesnt solve the problem?
[2008/05/10 10:33] Beathan Vale: FR — that is how emininent domain in the US works — forced sale to govt for market rate
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: someone say how to make ppl follow the covenent?
[2008/05/10 10:33] Beathan Vale: TP — fines —
[2008/05/10 10:33] Beathan Vale: fines work in RL
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: we can make our own rules
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: the fines here are not a good way to make the matter resolve my friend beathan
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: fines are not enough
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: this is NOT RL
[2008/05/10 10:33] Beathan Vale: and if a person is willing to pay a fine — rather than move to a place where they won’t be fined — let them
[2008/05/10 10:33] Flyingroc Chung: I know beathan, I was pointing out to TP that the bill indeed allows the CoC to forcibly take someone else’s land.
[2008/05/10 10:33] Moon Adamant: so you do want an Eminent Domain?
[2008/05/10 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: double five dollars its ten bucks who cares
[2008/05/10 10:34] You: hmm – i see no prob with a little freewheeling chat here. Roc, you had something? I guess it’s the ‘swap’ point? I agree with Roc on this, BTW. Confiscation gives me the creeps if the landowner wasn’t clearly warned when they originally purchased.
[2008/05/10 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont want eminent doman
[2008/05/10 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: we want to rework that part FR
[2008/05/10 10:34] Moon Adamant: but that’s what it is
[2008/05/10 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: we want teh covenent adhered to
[2008/05/10 10:34] MT Lundquist: clearly warned is the covenent
[2008/05/10 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: so how other than fines do we make that happen.. i have a suggestion if anyone wants to know
[2008/05/10 10:34] Beathan Vale: TP — this bill is emininent domain — saying you want this bill is like saying that you want a four legged domesiticate mamber of Genus Canus — but don’t want a dog
[2008/05/10 10:35] You: Folks, let me ask it this way — if this was sim 4 and the rules were in place before anyone bought a plot, would you THEN have problems with the proposed enforcement?
[2008/05/10 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: so the bill no one wants as is beathan!
[2008/05/10 10:35] Moon Adamant: you can install an escrow system, for example
[2008/05/10 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: yes jamie.. how do we enforce the covenent
[2008/05/10 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: what is that moon?
[2008/05/10 10:35] Widget Whiteberry has a question
[2008/05/10 10:35] Moon Adamant: a merchant leaves a sum in deposit with the coc
[2008/05/10 10:36] You: Let’s be polite, or polite-ish, and get Moon’s answer and then take comments from our visitor Widget, hmn?
[2008/05/10 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: why?
[2008/05/10 10:36] Moon Adamant: in case of transgression, the fine is levelled out of the escrow
[2008/05/10 10:36] Moon Adamant: and of course, i assume that this is a process which can be appealed to?
[2008/05/10 10:36] MT Lundquist: its worth noting that we already have conferscation rules
[2008/05/10 10:37] MT Lundquist: if citizens dont pay their tier they eventually lose ther land
[2008/05/10 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: if there are fines they must be VERY steep to reflect the loss to our community when a huge lot on the forum or plat z is empty for months on end
[2008/05/10 10:37] MT Lundquist: Sudane explained that to the commission
[2008/05/10 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: ill go with fines but they must be HUGE.. and then beathan what if they dont pay the fines then what
[2008/05/10 10:37] Flyingroc Chung: Widget, ask away
[2008/05/10 10:37] Widget Whiteberry: As land is a metaphor, how might you define the problem you are trying to resolve or the solution you are trying to reach, without depending on metaphorical (ephemeral) land?
[2008/05/10 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: eventually we have to take the land
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: good point, take them to the SC
[2008/05/10 10:38] Flyingroc Chung: MT, I think in our history, we have only forcibly taken land from a non-paying citizen once.
[2008/05/10 10:38] Widget Whiteberry: … your asset is your association, your community
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: if they broke rules of CDS we would take them to the SC
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: yes we have FR
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: ask sudane, she has taken land, we have a process for that
[2008/05/10 10:38] You: Prin. May Widget finish?
[2008/05/10 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/05/10 10:38] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:38] MT Lundquist: its in progress now actually FR
[2008/05/10 10:38] MT Lundquist: Sudane explained
[2008/05/10 10:38] You: …
[2008/05/10 10:38] MT Lundquist: process*+
[2008/05/10 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: sudane was on the commerce commission
[2008/05/10 10:39] Flyingroc Chung: yes, TP, we have done so, but only once.I think this demonstrates we should take this forcible taking of land very seriosly.
[2008/05/10 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry was widget done
[2008/05/10 10:39] Widget Whiteberry: that’s really all I wanted to ask/comment
[2008/05/10 10:39] You: I am not sure we are managing to look like we welcome public comment, at the moment 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: shes doing this now..
[2008/05/10 10:39] MT Lundquist: yes sudane is
[2008/05/10 10:39] MT Lundquist: takes 3 months
[2008/05/10 10:39] MT Lundquist: approx
[2008/05/10 10:40] You: Are there other new points, for now?
[2008/05/10 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i think we /not me but the commerce commision including all factions was clear
[2008/05/10 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: that we MUST resolve our empty lots in dense commercial places issue
[2008/05/10 10:41] Flyingroc Chung: So tell me, will the CoC also take 3 monhs to confiscate someone’s land? It doesnt seem like this will fix the perceived problem of non-commercial plots
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: we have to solve this problem.. painful and controversial as it is
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: we need solutions
[2008/05/10 10:41] You: I strongly agree, even if we don’t quite yet have a specific set of remedies ironed out perfectly. May I suggest that when MT redrafts, the C of C part also needs to specify which other older bodies if any are replaced & decommissioned?
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: well give us some ideas!
[2008/05/10 10:41] MT Lundquist: i can do that yes
[2008/05/10 10:41] You: 🙂 will do
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: hwo can you enforce the covenent
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: its been on the forum for ages
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: fines? how high?
[2008/05/10 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: how long
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: go to
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: lets go to CN forum NOW
[2008/05/10 10:42] Flyingroc Chung: Fines for non-compliance, and incentives for compliance.
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: i want you to look
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: what if they dont pay the fines
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: let us go now
[2008/05/10 10:42] Jamie Palisades whispers, good points all, but let’s take THAT to the Forums
[2008/05/10 10:42] Beathan Vale: FR — yes, exactly
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: get up and go
[2008/05/10 10:42] Flyingroc Chung: maybe progresive fines, the longer you are non-compliant the higher the fine.
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: its been on the fricken forum three months jamie
[2008/05/10 10:42] You: Sorry Prin, I got a meeting to finish 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:42] Beathan Vale: and TP -nonpayment of fines would be like nonpayment of tier — e
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: we can meet there
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: you need to look at YOUR community and see what its doing o us
[2008/05/10 10:42] Jamie Palisades notes we’re 30 minutes over time
[2008/05/10 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: when a person tps in to CN and sees empty shops
[2008/05/10 10:43] Beathan Vale: we could get to repossession eventually — but only through a GOVERNMENTAL process – not on the say-so of a private org
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: they leave
[2008/05/10 10:43] MT Lundquist: which brings you back to eventual conferscation of plots
[2008/05/10 10:43] MT Lundquist: for non payment
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree beathan so lets set up this process
[2008/05/10 10:43] You: 🙂 we need a bill – and I LOVE the idea of meeting “on the spot”
[2008/05/10 10:43] You: First thing is redrafting though
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: make the fines VERY HIgh
[2008/05/10 10:43] MT Lundquist: ok i will redraft
[2008/05/10 10:43] You: This is very helpful discussion that will assist MT in redrafting. Have we about exhausted it for now? Noting the time, we’re 30 minutes over, but I regard that as a reasonable productive change. I *would* like your assent to briefly take up item 7, which unlike the others remaining, has some time sensitivity to it.
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: and then the consequences pretty darn swift
[2008/05/10 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: it hurts everyone
[2008/05/10 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: done.
[2008/05/10 10:44] You: ahem 🙂 any last words for now? And do we want a special informal chat to go over this is more depth, voluntarily?
[2008/05/10 10:44] MT Lundquist: are we deciding about the COC now?
[2008/05/10 10:44] You: Prin, maybe a side meeting of those interested, just to brainstorm?
[2008/05/10 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: how about a citizen group that votes to the removeal finally .. or soemthing that “feels” not governmental
[2008/05/10 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: we had a commission jamie!
[2008/05/10 10:44] You: RA meeting formally, as such, just is not the best brainstorming device 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:44] Flyingroc Chung: and btw, widget, while our “land” is really electrons flying around, people feel really possesive about it. So while it’s not really land, it is real property.
[2008/05/10 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: you are sending it back to d committee
[2008/05/10 10:45] You: but you and MT are asking for more input about remedies now – so NO – but does MT want soem help in his re-draft? Up to him 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:45] MT Lundquist: happy to accept help
[2008/05/10 10:45] You: I hope we’ll have a new bill next week 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:45] MT Lundquist: if you are offering Jamie
[2008/05/10 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: what about the chamber of commerce part
[2008/05/10 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: is that redundant
[2008/05/10 10:46] Flyingroc Chung: I would suggest that this bill makes NL 4-14 obsolete
[2008/05/10 10:46] You: Sure – do we want to have a sitdown drafting session and invite anyone
[2008/05/10 10:46] Flyingroc Chung: it sets rules and things that nobody uses
[2008/05/10 10:46] You: and everyone? Been I while since I seen the Ice Castle 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: should we reinstate that
[2008/05/10 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: instead
[2008/05/10 10:46] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/10 10:46] You: sigh – can we fiinish up for now? MT will call for help as he sees fit, hm? All volunteers welcome
[2008/05/10 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: what ice castle?
[2008/05/10 10:47] You: 🙂 yours silly
[2008/05/10 10:47] Flyingroc Chung: it’s been in the books for a couple of years, it seems like the rules dont work.
[2008/05/10 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: ok we have a party at one
[2008/05/10 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: ok fr
[2008/05/10 10:47] You: 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:47] MT Lundquist: yes ok at the castle at icewater
[2008/05/10 10:47] You: close item for now?
[2008/05/10 10:47] MT Lundquist: i will send an announcement
[2008/05/10 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: close
[2008/05/10 10:47] You: cool
[2008/05/10 10:47] MT Lundquist: what about the Chamber part
[2008/05/10 10:48] MT Lundquist: COC?
[2008/05/10 10:48] MT Lundquist: part one
[2008/05/10 10:48] You: i’s say, look at that too MT
[2008/05/10 10:48] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/10 10:48] You: we can’t enact something today unless we know which other similar redudant groups we are closing – er – I think
[2008/05/10 10:48] You: next item,
[2008/05/10 10:48] You: let me ask for permission to take item 7 up out of order, it’s short
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: and time sensitive
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: …?
—-
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: OK. This is my short report to the RA on an SC decision worth our noting.
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: 7
[2008/05/10 10:49] You: URI from them is in our agenda for today
[2008/05/10 10:49] Beathan Vale: did we really expel someon?
[2008/05/10 10:50] You: though they will post a transcript too eventually
[2008/05/10 10:50] You: There was a dispute about a land ejection. It was resolved 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: i did
[2008/05/10 10:50] You: But it raises two issues for US
[2008/05/10 10:50] You: The first – which I want to note
[2008/05/10 10:51] You: is that the SC took the position that the general CDS laws about land ejection and the like
[2008/05/10 10:51] You: (marshals of the peace and all that)
[2008/05/10 10:51] You: which generally apply in CDS
[2008/05/10 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need a gard
[2008/05/10 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: my life was in danger
[2008/05/10 10:51] You: were going to defer, during RA meetings, to our own rules of order.
[2008/05/10 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i can start bringing a private body gard
[2008/05/10 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i used to bring one
[2008/05/10 10:52] You: So basically – they’re saying, RA, police yourself 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:52] You: which I did want us to note.
[2008/05/10 10:52] You: Second item – and my last on this topic.
[2008/05/10 10:52] You: I think we should take seriously that delegation. So I plan to do a little work on confirming land permission issues and the like.
[2008/05/10 10:53] You: Then I plan to bring you an amendment or two that might make RA rules of order more clear about that sort of ting.
[2008/05/10 10:53] Beathan Vale: make it part of the job of the Parliamentarian
[2008/05/10 10:53] You: Could be, yes, BV
[2008/05/10 10:53] You: moral of the story: we need to sharpen up a it 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:53] Flyingroc Chung: I still cant think of anyone who’d want to be parliamentarian
[2008/05/10 10:53] You: fooey: b i t
[2008/05/10 10:54] You: So no action at this time, but I did want all to be focused on that as a moving item
[2008/05/10 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: if i could i woukd
[2008/05/10 10:54] You: and solicit any comments 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:54] You: next item?
—-
[2008/05/10 10:55] You: OK, we’re 5 minutes from default adjourn time
[2008/05/10 10:55] You: we skipped 5 and 6
[2008/05/10 10:55] You: I do not think either *requires* action today – but does anyone have a burning item at present on those?
[2008/05/10 10:56] You: I see conflicts of interest as being a big agenda item next week
[2008/05/10 10:57] You: anything else for now on those? No?
[2008/05/10 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/05/10 10:57] MT Lundquist: no
—-
[2008/05/10 10:57] You: OK then – item 9 – open mike – anyone have random additional comments? 🙂
[2008/05/10 10:57] Flyingroc Chung: conflict of interest will take some time to debate
[2008/05/10 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i wont voet for the two terms
[2008/05/10 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i dont like the two terms i want it for movement from one office to another
[2008/05/10 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we cant afford two term limits now, our smaller factions
[2008/05/10 10:58] MT Lundquist: i support tps view
[2008/05/10 10:58] Beathan Vale: I don’t mind the two term limits — but I don’t like movement between office restrictions
[2008/05/10 10:58] You: more?
[2008/05/10 10:58] Beathan Vale: there is no reason why we should put the most active members of our community on forced ice
[2008/05/10 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: why beathan ? thats the whole conflict issue ffs
[2008/05/10 10:59] Beathan Vale: seems silly
[2008/05/10 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: the problem is then that they vote here and go there or vic versa, solve that.. i would go for no voting on bills that have any remote link to the former offece
[2008/05/10 10:59] MT Lundquist: the 2 term limits mean we will rapidly run out of candidates
[2008/05/10 11:00] Flyingroc Chung: I think we have this debate int eh agenda next week, so I propose we adjorn 🙂
[2008/05/10 11:00] Beathan Vale: I would rather see people move between offices than forcing them to take a term in the penalty box
[2008/05/10 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe nt a term off but limiting the actions
[2008/05/10 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: second FR
[2008/05/10 11:00] MT Lundquist: the no move angle simply prevents a one term move
[2008/05/10 11:00] You: 🙂 see, we will have a good chat next week
[2008/05/10 11:00] MT Lundquist: i guess so
[2008/05/10 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: mt wont be here
[2008/05/10 11:00] You: I encourage people to bring drafted text of proposed laws 😀
[2008/05/10 11:00] Beathan Vale: MT — it puts someone on the sideline for a full term — much worse than term limits
[2008/05/10 11:00] MT Lundquist: i would like a 7 day vote on any items please
[2008/05/10 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: ok beathan then lets just limit the votes related to what they voted on
[2008/05/10 11:01] You: And MT, send along your thoughts via Forums & other RA members please
[2008/05/10 11:01] Widget Whiteberry: Thank you, all, I need to go
[2008/05/10 11:01] MT Lundquist: i’m sure Prin can talk for me
[2008/05/10 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: thnks widget
[2008/05/10 11:01] You: on everything at the meeting, MT, next week, or just on Confliuct of Intertest?
[2008/05/10 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/05/10 11:01] MT Lundquist: everything please
[2008/05/10 11:01] Moon Adamant: i must leave now
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Ok, then one more thing 🙂
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: so thank you everyone, and the rest of a good saturday evening
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Happy birthday to you
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Happy birthday to you
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: LOL
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Happy birthday dear Mooo-ooon
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: Happy birthday to you 🙂
[2008/05/10 11:02] Flyingroc Chung: Ooh
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: thank you Jamie :))
[2008/05/10 11:02] Flyingroc Chung: happy birthday!
[2008/05/10 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: happy birthday moon
[2008/05/10 11:02] MT Lundquist: HB Moon
[2008/05/10 11:02] Sonja Strom: Happy Birthday Moon!!
[2008/05/10 11:02] Beathan Vale: happy bday
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: thank you all :))
[2008/05/10 11:02] Moon Adamant: very much 🙂
[2008/05/10 11:02] You: We’re adjourned 🙂
—-
[2008/05/10 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: amen that was hard
[2008/05/10 11:03] Moon Adamant: thank you all the reps
[2008/05/10 11:03] Beathan Vale: no election meeting today
[2008/05/10 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: bleh
[2008/05/10 11:03] Sonja Strom: Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyy!!! 😀 😀 😀
[2008/05/10 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: why beathan?
[2008/05/10 11:03] Moon Adamant waves and says bye to everyone
[2008/05/10 11:03] Sonja Strom: bye
[2008/05/10 11:03] Beathan Vale: I don’t have time
[2008/05/10 11:03] You: 🙂
[2008/05/10 11:03] Beathan Vale: if someone else wants to chair today — feel free
[2008/05/10 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: FR can you ?
[2008/05/10 11:04] Flyingroc Chung: not really
[2008/05/10 11:04] You: BV, I see that as something which basically can take time, until, say, a month or so before the next election starts. Is that the right understanding?
[2008/05/10 11:05] Flyingroc Chung: yes, but the closer you get electoral reforms enacted to actual elections, there will be cries of
[2008/05/10 11:05] Flyingroc Chung: trying to conolidate power
[2008/05/10 11:05] Flyingroc Chung: or whatnot
[2008/05/10 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree
[2008/05/10 11:05] Jamie Palisades intones: surely not
[2008/05/10 11:05] Beathan Vale: I am trying to put things together — we have reached fairly few points of consensus — and on minor items like using a 0-based count for the borda county
[2008/05/10 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: it needs to be a priorirty
[2008/05/10 11:05] You: heh
[2008/05/10 11:05] Sonja Strom: Yes, I’m sure that’s true — and maybe true?
[2008/05/10 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: elections are sooner than you think
[2008/05/10 11:05] MT Lundquist: july
[2008/05/10 11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: new citizens have to be in place 30 days before the polls open
[2008/05/10 11:06] Sonja Strom: Are other people getting SL to load ok? For me a lot of stuff is not rezzing.
[2008/05/10 11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: i am sonja
[2008/05/10 11:06] Flyingroc Chung: mine is fine
[end]
RA meeting: May 24, 2008
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & plans.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
None known.
3. Conflicts of Interest, etc. (25 mins.: 09h55 – 10h20)
Review of open proposals & next steps
— Citizen bill from PMR Walpole: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1772
— Jamie’s proposal: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1836
— Beathan’s Term Limits redraft: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1827
— Additional proposals re: oath of office
— Additional proposals re: recusals
4. Sim Planning & Private Development Proposal implementation (25 mins.: 10h20 – 10h45)
— PDP: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p10980
— General Master Plan: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1871
— Viewing & discussion of General Master Plans underway
{May adjourn location to NFS School site]
6. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h45-11h00)
Adjournment: 11h00
Held in Neufreistadt Rathaus
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
Transcript: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1884
===
[09:10] Pre-meeting chat regarding setting dates for next regular RA election.
[09:15] Meeting called to order.
[09:16] 1a – Call for assent to recording.
[09:17] 1b – Agenda reviewed and modified. (Not raised.)
— More on election timing
[09:21] 1c – Call for speakers to agenda items.
[09:23] 1d – Call for corrections to RA transcripts and action item summaries.
[09:24] 1e – Future RA meeting schedule.
— Chancellor’s report planned for 7 June [09:25]
— Treasurer’s budget session planned for 31 May or 7 June [09:21]
— SC nominee confirmation planned for 31 May [09:29]
[09:36] 1f – Consent agenda. No items.
[09:36] 2 – Commerce Commission. (discussion only)
— More legislative drafting expected, nothing at this time.
[09:43] 3 – Conflicts of Interest
— Review of open legislative proposals.
— Discussion regarding related Election Commission issues [09:51]
— Motion to commit the listed draft bills to an Conflicts and Ethics commission made [09:54] and seconded [09:54]. Refinements noted as informal amendments — all citizens may participate, meetings transcripts posted, Gwyneth Llewelyn to chair. Motion to amend to set deadline of 3 weeks before next election (14 June), at which point RA may act independently of commission report, made [10:02] and also accepted informally. Motion adopted as amended 4-1-0 [10:06].
[10:08] 4. Sim and Master Planning
— Discussion of adequacy and operation of PDP bill to launch Sim4 [10:08]
— Guild report & discussion of General Master Plan and proposed bill [10:17]
— Guild report & discussion of CDS Sim4 plans [10:36]
—- Note on Altenstadt’s planning [10:41]
—- Note on effects of & power to change legacy structures [10:43]
[11:00] 5. Open microphone
— Upcoming CDS auction event
[11:07] Adjourned.
Transcript of 24 May 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Neufreistadt Rathaus
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====
[2008/05/24 9:01] Danton Sideways: Hi Jamie. I want to officially ask the RA when the election will be
[2008/05/24 9:01] Danton Sideways: Any way to fit that in near the beginning?
[2008/05/24 9:01] You: Danton, pardon just a sec – in IMs (see above in chat)
[2008/05/24 9:02] Danton Sideways: I saw but was trying to forestall 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:02] Moon Adamant: hi guys
[2008/05/24 9:02] Moon Adamant: has somebody turned on lag mode? 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:02] Danton Sideways: Hi Moon
[2008/05/24 9:02] Danton Sideways: Jamies in IM
[2008/05/24 9:02] Moon Adamant: hi Danton
[2008/05/24 9:03] Moon Adamant: sure, np 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:03] Danton Sideways: And your balloon says Busy
[2008/05/24 9:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello fellow citizens 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry I’m late.
[2008/05/24 9:03] Danton Sideways: Hi Gwyn
[2008/05/24 9:03] Danton Sideways: lol
[2008/05/24 9:03] Danton Sideways: 3 minutes
[2008/05/24 9:04] MT Lundquist: hi all
[2008/05/24 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe at least I’m not TOO late…. unless SL is lagging more than I thought, I see that I’m not the last one to arrive!
[2008/05/24 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello, MT :))
[2008/05/24 9:04] Danton Sideways: Hi MT
[2008/05/24 9:04] Moon Adamant: hello MT
[2008/05/24 9:04] You: Alright 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:04] Danton Sideways: If the lag keeps up I’ll switch to Ajaxlife
[2008/05/24 9:05] You: Sorry, I was sending an IM ping to RA members not present.
[2008/05/24 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe thanks, Jamie!
[2008/05/24 9:05] You: Poor girl, did she leave AjaxLife UP? I thought the server might have falled into disuse.
[2008/05/24 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ping them without remorse!
[2008/05/24 9:05] You: Gwyn, you remember her?
[2008/05/24 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no, Jamie, it’s still up,
[2008/05/24 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and she’s been updating it too.
[2008/05/24 9:05] Danton Sideways: It’s great for my Asus eee
[2008/05/24 9:05] MT Lundquist: brb
[2008/05/24 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s getting better and better all the time!
[2008/05/24 9:06] You: Oh, cool, I thought she went dormant for a while, shrug. Student I think.
[2008/05/24 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: High school student, yes
[2008/05/24 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 15 or 16 years old 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the server is her PC at home I believe 😉
[2008/05/24 9:07] Danton Sideways: Hi ThePrincess
[2008/05/24 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: hello sir danton
[2008/05/24 9:07] Jamie Palisades grins – the seeds of us old people becoming superfluous, Gwynnie
[2008/05/24 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: always interesteing to see you
[2008/05/24 9:07] Danton Sideways: Sir?
[2008/05/24 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: yes sir
[2008/05/24 9:07] Moon Adamant: hello Princess.
[2008/05/24 9:08] Danton Sideways: I’ve been knighted or something?
[2008/05/24 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: hello moon
[2008/05/24 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Princess
[2008/05/24 9:08] You: Now – Sonja’s sent regrets, so we’re missing FR and BV. And Danton – informally- had asked e to rais a quick queston about the next election.
[2008/05/24 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: dont knock it
[2008/05/24 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: fr just logged in
[2008/05/24 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi grunts at moon
[2008/05/24 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: and gwyen
[2008/05/24 9:08] Danton Sideways: FR was up late working on HIS Asus eee
[2008/05/24 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/05/24 9:08] Moon Adamant: already?
[2008/05/24 9:08] You: which we can as easily handle before comiong to order I think, anyway. SO do you mind if we have that 6- second chat now, anyone?
[2008/05/24 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyenth and i arent speaking
[2008/05/24 9:09] You: Roc’s always up late 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We aren’t?
[2008/05/24 9:09] MT Lundquist: back
[2008/05/24 9:09] Danton Sideways: I want my question in the record
[2008/05/24 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: what question ?
[2008/05/24 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure… mmh with FR here, we’ll have a nice quorum
[2008/05/24 9:09] You: Well I have four of 7, so we are quorate as far as that goes.
[2008/05/24 9:09] Danton Sideways: When is the next election?
[2008/05/24 9:09] Flyingroc Chung: hi
[2008/05/24 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts RA members
[2008/05/24 9:09] Danton Sideways: Exact date?
[2008/05/24 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: in july dandont
[2008/05/24 9:09] You: Ah, 5.
[2008/05/24 9:09] Danton Sideways: Hi FR
[2008/05/24 9:09] Jamie Palisades grins.
[2008/05/24 9:09] Flyingroc Chung: I see you’re already talking about me
[2008/05/24 9:09] Moon Adamant: hi hi Danton 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome, FR 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: its in the constitution, july
[2008/05/24 9:09] Moon Adamant: FR* sorry
[2008/05/24 9:09] Flyingroc Chung: lol
[2008/05/24 9:09] You: Danton, would you just blurt out your question before we get started – I think it’s a quick one easily addressed
[2008/05/24 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i answered him
[2008/05/24 9:10] You: ha ha Gwyn’s ahead of me
[2008/05/24 9:10] Danton Sideways: Already done, LRA
[2008/05/24 9:10] You: and {rion – and everyone 😀 as usual
[2008/05/24 9:10] Danton Sideways: I want to know the exact date the elections open
[2008/05/24 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Rose 🙂 )
[2008/05/24 9:10] Rose Springvale: 🙂
—-
[2008/05/24 9:10] You: OK then let’s call to order please
[2008/05/24 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: ok lets look it up
[2008/05/24 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: wait .. its impportant
[2008/05/24 9:10] Rose Springvale: (thought i was invisible :))
[2008/05/24 9:11] You: Oh? Election? Sure.
[2008/05/24 9:11] ThePrincess Parisi: and then there is a date one has to be acitizen before the election
[2008/05/24 9:11] Flyingroc Chung: it’s not exact, the constttion provides a range of days, I think
[2008/05/24 9:11] You: Rose, it;s probably the cuimulative effects of my deprecating pregamne badinage 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:11] Rose Springvale: ummm
[2008/05/24 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (you look like a cloudie to me, dear Rose 😉 )
[2008/05/24 9:11] Danton Sideways: Hi Rose!
[2008/05/24 9:11] ThePrincess Parisi: its not going to be held til we have a new sim on the market a few weeks before they have to be citizens… unless the guild gets their way.. per the controlling faction of the guild cdsf
[2008/05/24 9:11] Rose Springvale: sounds like a personal problem JP 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:12] You: hah
[2008/05/24 9:12] Moon Adamant: i beg your pardon?
[2008/05/24 9:12] You: See – this is why 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i wasnt talking to you moon
[2008/05/24 9:12] You: OK. Danton:
[2008/05/24 9:12] Moon Adamant: ah, you were talking to the universe, ok
[2008/05/24 9:13] Danton Sideways: I would like it go on record when the first day of elections will be
[2008/05/24 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: no i was talking to a person who asked me a question missy moon
[2008/05/24 9:13] You: you’re not going to get constitutional ruloings here , we have an SC for that – but I thikn the cite to the constitution is indeed correct.
[2008/05/24 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: well perhaps danton you should propose a bill
[2008/05/24 9:13] You: No intent to be difficult, but we just are not the body that decided election matters.
[2008/05/24 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: has csdf sent you
[2008/05/24 9:13] Danton Sideways: I request the RA to provide that information
[2008/05/24 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: that may be a variable date hon…. wirte a bill
[2008/05/24 9:14] Danton Sideways: so I can know about forming a new party
[2008/05/24 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: we will when we have the date of the next sim
[2008/05/24 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: go ahead and form a faction is my advice
[2008/05/24 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: dont dilly dally
[2008/05/24 9:14] You: @danton – please do ask the SC, it is their job and we can’t gainsay them. @Prin : Yes, and CSDF are bebind global warming too. Can we move on?
[2008/05/24 9:14] Danton Sideways: No Jamie
[2008/05/24 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Jamie, it’s a fact that it’s the RA that sets the election dates.
[2008/05/24 9:14] Danton Sideways: I have no contact with the SC
[2008/05/24 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC just “Oversees”
[2008/05/24 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: we arent ready to do it ok
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: so shhhhhh
[2008/05/24 9:15] Danton Sideways: I formally request that the RA provide that info as soon as possible
[2008/05/24 9:15] Danton Sideways: *info
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: tell the guild to get the sim and we will do that
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: you cannot formally request us sir
[2008/05/24 9:15] You: ah hah – see I thought we were stuck with the SC’s constraints! Thanks Gwyn
[2008/05/24 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait wait wait wait wait wait…
[2008/05/24 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: we arent formally requested
[2008/05/24 9:15] Danton Sideways: I can once the meeting starts
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: write a bill danton
[2008/05/24 9:15] You: Well, Danton, in light of that I suggest that the RA take that up and formally set them at its next meeting.
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: no you cant
[2008/05/24 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: you caant just formally request we do what you say
[2008/05/24 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It is, indeed, the RA that sets the date, and why shouldn’t a citizen request that the RA announces the date well in advance?
[2008/05/24 9:15] Danton Sideways: as a citizen
—-
[2008/05/24 9:15] You: Hush all, please, let’s do this formally 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:16] You: I call the meeting to order. AHEM. 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:16] You: Agenda as proposed is posted at /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1872
[2008/05/24 9:16] You: Welcome all.
—
[2008/05/24 9:16] You: 1aq
[2008/05/24 9:16] You: Would all present please assent to being recorded? I so assent.
[2008/05/24 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/05/24 9:16] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/05/24 9:16] You: 1a that was (oops)
[2008/05/24 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with getting recorded.
[2008/05/24 9:17] Danton Sideways: I assent
[2008/05/24 9:17] MT Lundquist: i assent
—-
[2008/05/24 9:17] You: 1b
[2008/05/24 9:17] Rose Springvale: assent
[2008/05/24 9:17] You: agenda
[2008/05/24 9:17] Flyingroc Chung: “New RAs shall take office on 1 February and 1 August. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new RAs taking office.”
[2008/05/24 9:17] Danton Sideways: Thank you FR
[2008/05/24 9:17] You: any changes? I know of one – MT needs another week on the Commerce Commission redraft
[2008/05/24 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi sticks out her tongue at gwyen
[2008/05/24 9:17] Flyingroc Chung: I assent, and I stand corrected, the constitution *does* specify an exact date
[2008/05/24 9:18] You: Hold that thought please Roc 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i knew it did
[2008/05/24 9:18] MT Lundquist: ty jamie
[2008/05/24 9:18] You: I suggest we delete item 2 (at MT’s reqyest) and insert instead a 10 minute chat to sort out the election date business. Reactions?
[2008/05/24 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[2008/05/24 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: NO
[2008/05/24 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, no.
[2008/05/24 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: cos its says already in the constitution
[2008/05/24 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wait, my “no” was for not scratching item 2
[2008/05/24 9:19] You: 🙂 well I assume it’s OK to delete 2, and the only hesitance is about taking on the election dates, grin — in which case Danton can wait until “open mike” at the end I guess
[2008/05/24 9:19] Danton Sideways: The article FR cited is on record that’s fine with me
[2008/05/24 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: great danton
[2008/05/24 9:19] Danton Sideways: If there is no discussion that means you stick to it
[2008/05/24 9:19] You: any objection to deleting item 2, or other additions to the agenda?
[2008/05/24 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: so when we dont get a sim in time we will have to amend the constitution
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and the number of votes that takes.. lets see.. CSDF has ONE vote
[2008/05/24 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do object, yes. Why exactly are we dropping item 2?
[2008/05/24 9:20] Flyingroc Chung: what does getting a new sim have to do with a constitutional amendment?
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and DPU has two votes
[2008/05/24 9:20] You: c’mon people 🙂 I think we WILL need to talk about this – but under item 6 open mic is fine
[2008/05/24 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (FR, holistic relationships)
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and SP has two votes
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and nucare has two votes
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we are fine
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: goon
[2008/05/24 9:20] You: last call, grin? No agenda changes? looking around …
[2008/05/24 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/05/24 9:20] You: kk
—-
[2008/05/24 9:21] You: 1c
[2008/05/24 9:21] Moon Adamant: The New Guild has news
[2008/05/24 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to know what happened to item 2: why it was dropped; if it’ll be addressed under point 6; never to be addressed again; what?
[2008/05/24 9:21] You: Anyone here who is not an RA member who especially wants to speak to today’s agenda?
[2008/05/24 9:21] Moon Adamant raises hand
[2008/05/24 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn *pouts*
[2008/05/24 9:21] You: Gwyn I suggest we briefly discuss the future plans for item 2 after item 1’s done … since no one objected to its removal 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I did, Mr LRA
[2008/05/24 9:22] You: Moon – yes – Guild comments planned for today, right?
[2008/05/24 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But sure, let’s finish 1 first…
[2008/05/24 9:22] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/05/24 9:23] You: Under hm – item 4. OK 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:23] Moon Adamant: ok, just tell me when it’s my turn to speak
[2008/05/24 9:23] You: (Ah yes – I see it now, and apologize. MT can repeat his comment about legislative drafting when we get there. Thanks Gwyneth.)
—-
[2008/05/24 9:23] You: 1d
[2008/05/24 9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:24] You: Routine notice – please read the posted transcript, let us know if anythings’s wrong 🙂
—-
[2008/05/24 9:24] You: 1e
[2008/05/24 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :))
[2008/05/24 9:24] You: We are using this regular time slot
[2008/05/24 9:24] You: but
[2008/05/24 9:24] You: noting some upcoming events:
—-
[2008/05/24 9:25] You: [1.] Alexicon has agreed to do Chancellor’s report at last meeting each month.
[2008/05/24 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, great!
[2008/05/24 9:25] You: He has a conflict next week and asked to move it to next meeting after
[2008/05/24 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn sharpens her knives.
[2008/05/24 9:25] You: Hm – so – 7 June.
[2008/05/24 9:25] You: Just a headsup 🙂
—-
[2008/05/24 9:25] You: [2.] Sudane.
[2008/05/24 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should the RA prepare a few questions in advance for the Chancellor?
[2008/05/24 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I certainly have quite a few hehe
[2008/05/24 9:26] You: Gwyn – feel free (grin) – if you post them in advance it certainly gives him more time
[2008/05/24 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. I will!
[2008/05/24 9:26] You: I suggest that applies to all RA members
[2008/05/24 9:26] You: Although if we get a torrent we may have to pick and choose 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:27] You: or devote 2 hours to it – which might not be the worst outcome either
[2008/05/24 9:27] You: grin “2”
[2008/05/24 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear
[2008/05/24 9:27] You: Sudane has graciously agreed to come give us a run-down on the budget process
[2008/05/24 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: the term’s almost over..lol
[2008/05/24 9:27] You: Overdue to my ears – no critique of her 🙂 I think the RA has been lax in paying attention to that whole area
[2008/05/24 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
[2008/05/24 9:28] You: so we will do that on the 31st or 7th, schedules depending
[2008/05/24 9:28] You: A thought, Gwyn?
[2008/05/24 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: we were rudely interupted by a faction playing games jamie
[2008/05/24 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no. I’m fully supportive of having that review done at the RA.
[2008/05/24 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: and being compuletely full of misconduct that damaged our whole society
[2008/05/24 9:29] You: I seem to get a LOT of rude interruptions, Prin, richly distributed among several warring factions, grin, shrug
[2008/05/24 9:29] You: ahem
[2008/05/24 9:29] Moon Adamant: 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: well gwyen said.
—-
[2008/05/24 9:29] You: [3d] and last item on agenda
[2008/05/24 9:29] You: we need to confirm two SC nominees
[2008/05/24 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay :))
[2008/05/24 9:29] You: our regular hour (9-11 Sat SLT) is not good for that
[2008/05/24 9:29] You: so I suggest we meet late one week to get it over with –
[2008/05/24 9:30] You: and with apologies to MT, I;m going t ask if e can do 10-12 next week
[2008/05/24 9:30] You: (in other words, move the mtg by one hours later)
[2008/05/24 9:30] Flyingroc Chung: 10-12 on saturday?
[2008/05/24 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might to have to leave by 11:30, but fine.
[2008/05/24 9:30] MT Lundquist: thats ok with me
[2008/05/24 9:30] You: for one week, yes, to allow Dnate & Cindy to come here – as we agreed it’s a good hing to chat with them when we vote
[2008/05/24 9:31] You: *good thing (heh)
[2008/05/24 9:31] Flyingroc Chung: I can do that
[2008/05/24 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand
[2008/05/24 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, I just ask then that we put that item close to the top of the agenda, please.
[2008/05/24 9:31] Jamie Palisades looks around, hears no howls of schedule-related protest
[2008/05/24 9:31] You: well, that’s the problem Gwyn – we can’t get one or both of them until 11 SLT the earliest
[2008/05/24 9:32] You: hm – Prin?
[2008/05/24 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh I see. Ok.
[2008/05/24 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: how many votes are needed to approve the SC members
[2008/05/24 9:32] You: Haven’t looked. Majority I assume.
[2008/05/24 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Simple majority.
[2008/05/24 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: ty
[2008/05/24 9:33] You: We know you’ve decalred war on, or at least opposition to, one of them Prin – so it’s good fpr us to fix a date, and everyone can see it coming and do, I suppose, their politicing.
[2008/05/24 9:33] You: sorry – typos worse than usual today – which for me is saying something. Lag seems *immense*
[2008/05/24 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: excuse me? i have not delared war, she was simply removed from our faction
[2008/05/24 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: for misconduct
[2008/05/24 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: by the entire leadership not just me
[2008/05/24 9:34] Moon Adamant: wasn’t that to be voted yet?
[2008/05/24 9:34] Flyingroc Chung: “The RA provides a vote of confidence on candidates to the Philosophic branch. This vote is in regards to their perceived likelihood to uphold the constitution.”
[2008/05/24 9:34] You: 🙂 sorry I though I read on the boards that you opposed her SC candidacy. OI apologize if I was mstaken, and withdraw the comment.
[2008/05/24 9:34] You: Moon –
[2008/05/24 9:34] Flyingroc Chung: It’s a “vote of confidence, I dont even know if it’s binding, given the SC is “self-selected”
[2008/05/24 9:34] You: we decided when the SC refers to us, that we could have the nominees is for a chat before voting.
[2008/05/24 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, interesting twist… but yes, the vote of confidence is a confirmation by the RA that a certain member of the SC is acceptable (checks and balances!)
[2008/05/24 9:35] You: 🙂 and if the SC wants to take the position that the provision about the RA consent is meaningless, well, I welcome that amusing constituional squabble – but see it as not simple, and not inconsequential
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: now
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: let’s get over with the prelims hm?
—-
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: 1f
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: Consent agenda
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: I have nothing. Anyone?
[2008/05/24 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/05/24 9:36] Jamie Palisades looks
[2008/05/24 9:36] Flyingroc Chung: it’s too early for me to have anything
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: OK then. 🙂
—-
[2008/05/24 9:36] You: 2
[2008/05/24 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:37] You: Gwyn objected to our removal of this agenda item so let’s deal with it, even if it is brief.
[2008/05/24 9:37] MT Lundquist: do you want me to cover the recommendations again
[2008/05/24 9:37] You: hm
[2008/05/24 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, if you wish, for the record, MT…
[2008/05/24 9:37] You: unm
[2008/05/24 9:37] You: ahem
[2008/05/24 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or else, we can just put the link to the forum thread here
[2008/05/24 9:37] You: I prefer the latter 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:38] MT Lundquist: thats fine
[2008/05/24 9:38] MT Lundquist: i will need to go find it
[2008/05/24 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: we did that last week when you werent here
[2008/05/24 9:38] You: and we had chat in two of the last RA transscipts at length
[2008/05/24 9:38] MT Lundquist: ok so no need then
[2008/05/24 9:38] Jamie Palisades notes < < insert CC Forum thread URI here for transcript >> /viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611
[2008/05/24 9:38] You: so
[2008/05/24 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: the thing that is in question is the part oabout making sure that ppl adhear to the conventn
[2008/05/24 9:38] You: MT agreed to re-write it for us after our last meeting on 10 May
[2008/05/24 9:39] You: and he is doing so, yes?
[2008/05/24 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: and any comments gwyn has about that or how to do that .. speak up
[2008/05/24 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good, have we that in writing? (I mean the amended text)
[2008/05/24 9:39] MT Lundquist: not yet thats why its deferred
[2008/05/24 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH!
[2008/05/24 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You guys don’t explain lol
[2008/05/24 9:39] You: not yet, though we do have several RA members who agreed at the last meeting on record to help him (grin)
[2008/05/24 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: what do we do when we have ppl who buy commerical land and they dont use it as such and we have a shopping area void of shops?? what should we do ?
[2008/05/24 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: thats the question on teh table
[2008/05/24 9:39] You: Perhaps (jamie eyes the chat log of this meeting)
[2008/05/24 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, I withdraw my objection to remove item 2 from the agenda.
[2008/05/24 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: so basically when the covenent is not being adhered to
[2008/05/24 9:40] You: MT
[2008/05/24 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If there is no amended text to discuss, it’s worthless to discuss the unamended text
[2008/05/24 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: but its nto worthless for you to state what you think about land and commerical use
[2008/05/24 9:40] MT Lundquist: hence postponing the item lol
[2008/05/24 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: can someone ask her ?
[2008/05/24 9:40] You: Prin’s line of chat is a very good one – any possibility that some of us should have a sit-down to kick tha around during his next week? Would that be helpful to your drafting, or not?
[2008/05/24 9:41] You: sit-down .. sigh
[2008/05/24 9:41] MT Lundquist: yes it would
[2008/05/24 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: yes.. we need to know what the person over there thinks i guess
[2008/05/24 9:41] You: OK – can i leave it to you to propose & schedule?
[2008/05/24 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’ve posted what I think of it, Princess
[2008/05/24 9:41] MT Lundquist: its at the heart of part two or Pat’s CDSF bill to look at the commerce in CDS
[2008/05/24 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: oh well i dont read your verbosity
[2008/05/24 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: can you say it here
[2008/05/24 9:41] MT Lundquist: that question was asked in the bill
[2008/05/24 9:42] You: Needless to say it is my expectation that any citizen would be welcome at such a meeting, and treated civilly.
[2008/05/24 9:42] MT Lundquist: so I’m interested in Gwyns and csdfs view
[2008/05/24 9:42] You: No Prin she can’t today 🙂 It’s not on the agenda
[2008/05/24 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611&p=10926&hilit=+commerce#p10879
[2008/05/24 9:42] You: So I suggest MT invite her and others as noted above 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:42] You: And I will be happy to attend if schedule permits
[2008/05/24 9:42] You: we done with this item?
[2008/05/24 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/05/24 9:42] MT Lundquist: seems so
[2008/05/24 9:42] You: cool
[2008/05/24 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure…
—-
[2008/05/24 9:43] You: 3 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:43] You: conflicts of interest
[2008/05/24 9:43] You: please let me have a minute or two to put on the table what ll we hav going on
[2008/05/24 9:43] You: there’s a lot 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:43] You: [1.]
[2008/05/24 9:44] You: we have PMr walpole’s citizen bill. See that transcript of RA.
[2008/05/24 9:44] You: It had two parts
[2008/05/24 9:44] You: we havn;t take them u as suh – but any RA member can make a motion. However …
[2008/05/24 9:44] You: [2.]
[2008/05/24 9:45] You: We have one piece that really was “taken up” as a redraft
[2008/05/24 9:45] You: Beathan’s ‘term limits’ bill
[2008/05/24 9:45] You: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1827
[2008/05/24 9:45] You: also awaiting a motion, if someone cares to – but I thought Beathan was going to carry that one, FWIW
[2008/05/24 9:46] You: [3.]
[2008/05/24 9:46] You: We have Patroklus’ recently reminded-to-us thread of voluntary disclosures of personal interests
[2008/05/24 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/05/24 9:47] You: Not a bill, but worth noting in passing – honestly I am not entirely sure what its effect as but see it as generally virtuous, unless we sharpen up requirements in law somewhere
[2008/05/24 9:47] You: [4.]
[2008/05/24 9:47] You: related
[2008/05/24 9:47] You: we have my bill putting some teeth in disclosure
[2008/05/24 9:47] You: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1836
[2008/05/24 9:48] You: I got some commens on that and need t revise t take the into account.
[2008/05/24 9:48] You: The easy part seems to be disclosure, by the way
[2008/05/24 9:48] You: the hard part seems to be agreement on when role overlaps are – and are not – acceptable in CDS
[2008/05/24 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* again
[2008/05/24 9:49] You: aaaand . let’s see
[2008/05/24 9:49] You: [5.]
[2008/05/24 9:49] You: oath of office
[2008/05/24 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:49] You: Gwyn you made a suggestion during the most recent debates about that
[2008/05/24 9:49] You: so that’s a drafting job too, at least
[2008/05/24 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and will talk a bit about that if there is time and opportunity
[2008/05/24 9:50] You: OK …
[2008/05/24 9:50] You: now before we jump in, let me ask – does anyone know of any other loose threads? or have I correctly collected the current known pieces of change proposals?
[2008/05/24 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: election reform
[2008/05/24 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: I havent been following the forums
[2008/05/24 9:51] Flyingroc Chung: that closely
[2008/05/24 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I believe so, although, to be honest, next week the CSDF will submit a bill for voting which will address overlapping issues
[2008/05/24 9:51] You: Good point Prin, – but Election Reform is on a separate track, with a commission tht has not yet reported out, right?
[2008/05/24 9:52] MT Lundquist: another bill to add to these
[2008/05/24 9:52] MT Lundquist: can’t we bring all this together
[2008/05/24 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This basically just means that I’ll push for a partial approval of either Jamie’s or Beathan’s suggestion, and leave the rest for a better structured document for next week 😉
[2008/05/24 9:52] You: HM – Gwyn if that bill touches election reform, personally I;d like to get the bloody commissions’s report too before we act
[2008/05/24 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes on the election committee’s work)
[2008/05/24 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no
[2008/05/24 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just — oath of office; code of conduct; listing conflicts
[2008/05/24 9:53] You: sounds like we all are agreeing in essence
[2008/05/24 9:53] MT Lundquist: so the same stuff as these bills
[2008/05/24 9:53] You: um except for wondering when the Election Reform Commission UFO will land
[2008/05/24 9:53] MT Lundquist: why cant we just have a commission look at it all and have one propsal
[2008/05/24 9:53] You: hmmm
[2008/05/24 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Half of it, yes — the otehr half is term limits
[2008/05/24 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be fine with MT’s suggestion…
[2008/05/24 9:54] MT Lundquist: ok i propse it
[2008/05/24 9:54] MT Lundquist: propose*
[2008/05/24 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, I’ll second the proposal!
[2008/05/24 9:54] You: so – um – a second UFO is launched in the same direction as the Election Commission one?
[2008/05/24 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh well
[2008/05/24 9:55] You: when does the first UFO land? Amd what is the difference between the scopes of the two?
[2008/05/24 9:55] MT Lundquist: maybe they can be combined
[2008/05/24 9:55] Jamie Palisades notes a motion and second 🙂 …
[2008/05/24 9:55] You: … But not a commission description
[2008/05/24 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I won’t make comments on the results of the Election Commission, of course, but in this case, we can work from a more structured document instead of doing a “tabula rasa”
[2008/05/24 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Comission for Ethical Conduct and Conflict of Interests?
[2008/05/24 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or the Ethical Committee 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or hmm — the Lobby Commission?
[2008/05/24 9:56] You: sigh
[2008/05/24 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor LRA 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:57] You: OK, MT or Gwyn, it is your motion – What do you propose is the scope of this new commssion, please? Simply that it take all the bills I listed above, and report out?
[2008/05/24 9:57] MT Lundquist: yes and whatever CSDF intend to propose
[2008/05/24 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Summarise the existing proposals in a single one; 2) Tie them into the Oath of Office; 3) Establish a Code of Conduct; 4) Declaration of Conflict of Interests
[2008/05/24 9:58] You: Personally I just don’t see that it adds anything – but it you find it usecul, so be it. Who wishes to chair this makework thing? Sigh
[2008/05/24 9:58] Flyingroc Chung: I suppose it would work to say which one, or combination would be the recommended way to go
[2008/05/24 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if done right (and I did some homework lol ) you can fit this in a tidy, neat document 🙂
[2008/05/24 9:59] Jamie Palisades is deeply skeptical of commisions in view of their mixed record, in case that isn’t painfully obvious
[2008/05/24 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/24 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, what do you suggest instead?
[2008/05/24 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’m more than willing to chair it… if MT doesn’t oppose
[2008/05/24 9:59] MT Lundquist: i’m only a week late on mine lol
[2008/05/24 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, indeed!
[2008/05/24 10:00] You: Maybe you’re the exception MT 🙂 Ask Bromo. A few clarifications then. 2 actually. First, is membership of this thing open to all comers ?
[2008/05/24 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Commissions are generally open to all citizens…
[2008/05/24 10:00] MT Lundquist: i would suggest all yes
[2008/05/24 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I second that as well…
[2008/05/24 10:01] You: and are their proceedings transcripted, so that a chair can later establish the veracity of their report of consensus?
[2008/05/24 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, definitely, I agree with that.
[2008/05/24 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn points at the bill for committees
[2008/05/24 10:01] You: OK, thanks for that. Then I propose an amednment.
[2008/05/24 10:02] You: I move to amend this to indicate tht the RA will nt act on that referred field of topics until 3 weeks before the next election – and that at that time the Commission should report out, or otherwise the RA is fee to adopt other bills.
[2008/05/24 10:02] You: *free
[2008/05/24 10:03] You: in other words, put up or shut up, in time for us to get things done for the next election 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seems reasonable, I can vote “aye” on that 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:03] MT Lundquist: me too
[2008/05/24 10:04] Flyingroc Chung: yay deadlines
[2008/05/24 10:04] You: Shall I take that as an accepted change then? OK – are we also agreed to accept Gwyn’s kind offer to chair? If so I think we have a complete motion to pass
[2008/05/24 10:04] You: (We have scope, delivery date, procedures, chair)
[2008/05/24 10:04] MT Lundquist: ok with me
[2008/05/24 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no objections here)
[2008/05/24 10:05] You: Are you ready to vote?
[2008/05/24 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* affirmatively
[2008/05/24 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: nay
[2008/05/24 10:05] You: Members please state their vote. I vote aye
[2008/05/24 10:05] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/05/24 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote aye as well.
[2008/05/24 10:05] Jamie Palisades looks at Roc
[2008/05/24 10:05] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/24 10:06] You: Motion passed 4-1-0.
[2008/05/24 10:06] You: Thanks all. I had hoped we could get this bundle of issues moving 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:06] Flyingroc Chung: is it safe to relog, I think my SL is gonna crash son
[2008/05/24 10:06] Flyingroc Chung: soon
[2008/05/24 10:07] You: And I caution you that 3 weeks before the next election is not a long ways off 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:07] Rose Springvale: june 14 i think
[2008/05/24 10:07] You: yes – Planning next, Roc, and it will take some discussion
[2008/05/24 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe as said, I’ll be happy to present a structured document to the commission and gather input on it
[2008/05/24 10:07] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/05/24 10:08] You: OK kids, next and last big item is planning
—-
[2008/05/24 10:08] You: 4
[2008/05/24 10:08] You: You will recall that we PASSED the PDP
< < See text at viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1722&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p10841 >>
[2008/05/24 10:08] You: so any day now …
[2008/05/24 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: YES 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:09] Moon Adamant: wb FR 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:09] Flyingroc Chung: thanks
[2008/05/24 10:09] You: sim proposals might be lurching our way …
[2008/05/24 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: oh we hope so !
[2008/05/24 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, indeed!
[2008/05/24 10:09] Moon Adamant: i would like to ask how is the contractual part to be solved?
[2008/05/24 10:09] You: .. slouching towards Bethlehem like some great Beast waiting to be rezzed 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hrrmpf
[2008/05/24 10:10] Moon Adamant: i mean, the PDP will demand solid contracts, etc
[2008/05/24 10:10] You: haha
[2008/05/24 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly.
[2008/05/24 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or even “contracts” (solid or not)
[2008/05/24 10:11] You: Does anyone here wish to express a view on whethe the PDP bill adequately instructs the treasurer, chancellor and RA in that regard? 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, these are signed by the Chancellor 😉
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, yes. Mr. LRA
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The bill establishes responsibilities,
[2008/05/24 10:12] You: I know of no current legislative proposals to sharpen that up …
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and deadlines
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and checks and balances, so…
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/05/24 10:12] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if anything is still in doubt, well, we have established procedures to deal with those too
[2008/05/24 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Personally, I have no problems with the PDP bill…
[2008/05/24 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We know whom to blame 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:13] Jamie Palisades nods again: That’s my point. We have rules now, unless someone wants to change the, Moon – do you see a missing piece somewhere?
[2008/05/24 10:14] You: (Yes, Gwyn, blame the RA. ALL of us. We enacted it.)
[2008/05/24 10:14] Moon Adamant: well, i think there should be template contracts
[2008/05/24 10:14] Moon Adamant: to complete the procedures
[2008/05/24 10:14] You: Hm. Which is um the job of the Chancellor, now, yes?
[2008/05/24 10:14] Moon Adamant: that way, both the CDS as the private developers know where they stand
[2008/05/24 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For instance, to address Moon’s concerns… it’s the Chancellor that will sign the contract… the broad guidelines for it are established in the bill… so the Chancellor has to get a contract that supports those things in the bill, “or else”
[2008/05/24 10:15] Moon Adamant: i am not sure who should write those templates
[2008/05/24 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor decides!
[2008/05/24 10:15] You: Yup 🙂 Have fun 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So long as the templates/contracts don’t violate the terms on the PDP bill, the Chancellor has a free hand.
[2008/05/24 10:15] Jamie Palisades waves jauntily from his post in a different branch of government
[2008/05/24 10:16] Moon Adamant: lol
[2008/05/24 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and smiles @ Jamie
[2008/05/24 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA did its job well 🙂 … it’s one of the best-written bills in the CDS history
[2008/05/24 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now well, the “executive” aspects of it are for the Executive to figure out 😉
[2008/05/24 10:17] You: You inspire m e to more questions at our next visit with the executive branch 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:17] Moon Adamant: has Princess left?
[2008/05/24 10:17] You: moving on 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/05/24 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. I believe she did.
[2008/05/24 10:17] MT Lundquist: she will be back
[2008/05/24 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right.
—-
[2008/05/24 10:17] You: Let’s talk about the general master plan a bit.
[2008/05/24 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
[2008/05/24 10:18] Moon Adamant: surely
[2008/05/24 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we listen to the New Guild’s report?
[2008/05/24 10:18] You: It is the context into which all sims must fit
[2008/05/24 10:18] Moon Adamant waits
[2008/05/24 10:18] You: 🙂 Exactly. Moon, ready to go?
[2008/05/24 10:18] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/05/24 10:18] Moon Adamant: the GMP, or General Master Plan
[2008/05/24 10:19] Moon Adamant: is based on a concept of clusters
[2008/05/24 10:19] Moon Adamant: clusters are unform in theme
[2008/05/24 10:19] Moon Adamant: and tehy are connected through speciall connective sims, which will be developed by the Guild
[2008/05/24 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry had to sell land to a nucare member
[2008/05/24 10:20] Moon Adamant: besides the concept of Clusters
[2008/05/24 10:20] Moon Adamant: the GMP also defines concepts such as Topography, Density, etc
[2008/05/24 10:21] Moon Adamant: these can be better seen and understood at the exhibit we are preparing
[2008/05/24 10:21] Moon Adamant: to open today, max tomorrow (still lacking some data)
[2008/05/24 10:21] Moon Adamant: in all our sims
[2008/05/24 10:21] Moon Adamant: at the same time
[2008/05/24 10:21] Moon Adamant: the GMP is not only a geographical /terriotrial document
[2008/05/24 10:22] Moon Adamant: we are also preparing a survey on citizens’ expectations and visions for the CDS
[2008/05/24 10:22] Moon Adamant: this exhibit and survey are public consultation and will last for 15 days
[2008/05/24 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand
[2008/05/24 10:23] Moon Adamant: we are coor’ding with PIO also that the most citizens as possible can be informed, can consult the masterplan and participate in the survey
[2008/05/24 10:23] MT Lundquist: wow
[2008/05/24 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: for the second time today
[2008/05/24 10:23] Moon Adamant: done about GMP
[2008/05/24 10:23] You: wb Prin let’s let Moon finish then take Qs
[2008/05/24 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/05/24 10:24] Moon Adamant: er… i have some stuff too about 4th sim… later?
[2008/05/24 10:24] Moon Adamant: and altenstadt
[2008/05/24 10:25] You: hm – yes – let’s do general plan first. Good point.
[2008/05/24 10:25] Moon Adamant waits
[2008/05/24 10:25] You: Let’s take questions – and – note that the agenda includes a pointer to a draft bill that wouls make some of ths “general plan” stuff into law.
[2008/05/24 10:25] You: Prin, you had a Q?
[2008/05/24 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: ok … well i just wanted to say/ ask that the GMP is great, but there is also a notion that we can have a sim totally unconnected to the major CDS sims that is perfectly unrealted in any way
[2008/05/24 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: unrelated
[2008/05/24 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: like a merry go round sim
[2008/05/24 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: or what ever
[2008/05/24 10:26] Moon Adamant: that is part of the PDP
[2008/05/24 10:27] Moon Adamant: but the idea is that new themes will develop new clusters
[2008/05/24 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: yes .. so it wont eliminate any ideas
[2008/05/24 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Whenever a citizen or developer wishes to build or modify land in the CDS, the citizen or developer shall submit a design to the Chancellor for approval. The Chancellor shall assess the plan in light of the regional plan for the CDS and shall approve, deny or request modifications to the developer’s plan in a manner consistent with the regional plan.”
[2008/05/24 10:27] You: hm – but would require approval; all the same, right?
[2008/05/24 10:27] Moon Adamant: no, we never eleiminate ideas, see?
[2008/05/24 10:27] Moon Adamant: what happens is that we can say: that is a new cluster
[2008/05/24 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: never but you dont let citizens even speak is what i hear, but thats another story
[2008/05/24 10:28] Moon Adamant: take teh example of Nea Chora
[2008/05/24 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: they are leaving CDS those ones
[2008/05/24 10:28] Moon Adamant: indeed?
[2008/05/24 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, another good reason to have this “exhibition” of the GMP in public,
[2008/05/24 10:28] You: This is gettinga bit sidetracked. I’d like to discuss Guild rules as its own item, if we can.
[2008/05/24 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: true
[2008/05/24 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: im done
[2008/05/24 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so everybody can look at that and send feedback (eg leave votes on a poll)
[2008/05/24 10:29] Moon Adamant: exactly Gwyn
[2008/05/24 10:29] Moon Adamant: we are interested in the citizens’ opinions and vision
[2008/05/24 10:29] You: Can we stay with GMP for now? OK then – as to the “weird sim’ issue Prin raises – which is a good one –
[2008/05/24 10:29] You: Prin, if you do not like the Chancellor’s approval of the “goofy merry go round” sim, try to impeach him 🙂 it;s just a BIG cxase of the executive zoning power, I guess.
[2008/05/24 10:29] You: *sim
[2008/05/24 10:29] Moon Adamant: and we hope the survey helps to – if necessary -make a more complete GMP
[2008/05/24 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Jamie too
[2008/05/24 10:30] Moon Adamant: Jamie as said
[2008/05/24 10:30] Moon Adamant: Nea Hora is a good example
[2008/05/24 10:30] Moon Adamant: it’s a greek village
[2008/05/24 10:30] Moon Adamant: so it will become teh first sim of its own cluster
[2008/05/24 10:31] Moon Adamant: as necessity demands, we expand the cluster
[2008/05/24 10:31] You: and Moon, the Guild also hopes to bring legislation here to formalize the Guild experts giving the Chancellor more assistance with design review and ‘zoning’, does it not?
[2008/05/24 10:31] Moon Adamant: well Jamie
[2008/05/24 10:31] Moon Adamant: the Guild is a non-partisan NGO
[2008/05/24 10:31] Moon Adamant: so we do not formulate political docs
[2008/05/24 10:31] MT Lundquist: apologies I need to leave
[2008/05/24 10:32] You: Ta MT thanks for coming
[2008/05/24 10:32] Moon Adamant: what will happen – perhaps is to what you’re referring –
[2008/05/24 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you, MT — I’ll be in touch to figure out with you the best time for the commission meeting
[2008/05/24 10:32] Moon Adamant: is that the Building Approval Committee that wiill support the Chancellor will have autonomy to establish its own procedures
[2008/05/24 10:33] Moon Adamant: as indeed will have all departments inside both Faculty and Board in the New Guild
[2008/05/24 10:33] Moon Adamant: was that it?
[2008/05/24 10:34] You: … hm .. do we already have all the ‘law’ and ‘charter’ in place now , for BAC as you see it, or is there more change to be proposed?
[2008/05/24 10:34] Moon Adamant: well, atm
[2008/05/24 10:34] Moon Adamant: the Faculty is voting one single point in the charter
[2008/05/24 10:34] Moon Adamant: that was a point in dissension
[2008/05/24 10:34] Moon Adamant: and we hope to have this voted today
[2008/05/24 10:34] Flyingroc Chung: why not let it work for a while and we can see whether there is a need for more laws
[2008/05/24 10:35] Moon Adamant: so that tomorrow, the Board also reads and votes
[2008/05/24 10:35] Moon Adamant: yes, FR is right
[2008/05/24 10:35] Moon Adamant: the NG Charter is mainly an internal procedure doc
[2008/05/24 10:36] Moon Adamant: more questions?
[2008/05/24 10:36] You: anyone?
[2008/05/24 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds FR
—-
[2008/05/24 10:36] Moon Adamant: if not, can i pass to 4th sim and altenstadt
[2008/05/24 10:37] Moon Adamant: ?
[2008/05/24 10:37] You: OK then
[2008/05/24 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please.
[2008/05/24 10:37] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/05/24 10:37] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/05/24 10:37] Moon Adamant: 4th sim
[2008/05/24 10:37] Moon Adamant: 4th sim WG meeting met last night
[2008/05/24 10:37] Moon Adamant: and we created a consensus plan between Ulysse’s and Symo’s
[2008/05/24 10:37] Moon Adamant: the numbers are in review atm, also a new drawing is being made
[2008/05/24 10:38] Moon Adamant: which we hope will be available sonn
[2008/05/24 10:38] Moon Adamant: soon*
[2008/05/24 10:38] Moon Adamant: when we have the numbers
[2008/05/24 10:38] Moon Adamant: we will give them to financials
[2008/05/24 10:38] Moon Adamant: so that a financial plan be made
[2008/05/24 10:38] Moon Adamant: and bith be presented to thsi RA, as usual
[2008/05/24 10:39] Moon Adamant: questions?
[2008/05/24 10:39] You: Not from me – sounds like we are about a month off
[2008/05/24 10:39] Moon Adamant: we hope the rest of the process is veryquick
[2008/05/24 10:39] Moon Adamant: will be*
[2008/05/24 10:40] Moon Adamant: and as Guild will only build infrastructures and landscape, it is possible that the new sim is up very soon
[2008/05/24 10:40] You: Any other Qs on sim4?
[2008/05/24 10:40] You: Altstadt then, hm?
[2008/05/24 10:40] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/05/24 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:41] Moon Adamant: the Guild’s plan was to present Altenstadt’s redeployment plan today here at the RA
[2008/05/24 10:41] Moon Adamant: but
[2008/05/24 10:41] Moon Adamant: through the work of another WG
[2008/05/24 10:41] Moon Adamant: which is the gov spaces reorganization wg
[2008/05/24 10:41] Moon Adamant: we realized that many structures in NFS exceed primmage
[2008/05/24 10:42] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/05/24 10:42] Moon Adamant: and atm, we have to study to see if altenstadt re-deployment won’t exhaust NFS prim bank
[2008/05/24 10:42] Moon Adamant: this will take a bit of work, since we must look at a lot of buildings, etc
[2008/05/24 10:42] Moon Adamant: and parcels
[2008/05/24 10:43] Moon Adamant: and do a careful counting
[2008/05/24 10:43] Moon Adamant: hopefully, in teh next week or two we may be able to have an answer
[2008/05/24 10:43] You: I do have a related Q about that.
[2008/05/24 10:43] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/05/24 10:43] Moon Adamant listens
[2008/05/24 10:44] You: Say we discover that some low-use gov’t building is a horror of prim consumption
[2008/05/24 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
[2008/05/24 10:44] You: Who has the power (legal not SL perms) to remove it?
[2008/05/24 10:44] Moon Adamant: the Chancellor, i believe
[2008/05/24 10:44] Flyingroc Chung: RA does
[2008/05/24 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, indeed.
[2008/05/24 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, FR
[2008/05/24 10:45] Moon Adamant: for instance, right across us
[2008/05/24 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s the Chancellor that has taken up the role of the old Artisanal Collective
[2008/05/24 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “enforcing covenants” etc
[2008/05/24 10:45] Flyingroc Chung: Doesn’t the RA have to have a bill to remove govt blddings?
[2008/05/24 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not *really*
[2008/05/24 10:45] Moon Adamant: Biergarten uses a horror of prims and I already have authorization of Chancellor to replace the build
[2008/05/24 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* at Moon
[2008/05/24 10:45] Moon Adamant: seeing that to add
[2008/05/24 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR, the RA establishes Covenants
[2008/05/24 10:46] Moon Adamant: to the excess prims
[2008/05/24 10:46] Moon Adamant: we do have the problem of no-perms, wrong-grouped builds or part of builds
[2008/05/24 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, in this case, IF the RA wished to get a building removed, it would need to pass a bill to say: “New Covenant for NFS Inner City: No public building shall have over 100% of prims alloted to the parcel” or something like that
[2008/05/24 10:47] You: Yes
[2008/05/24 10:47] You: But
[2008/05/24 10:47] You: Alexi can just wave his pipe and his bowl 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:47] You: yes?
[2008/05/24 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course he does,
[2008/05/24 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *can
[2008/05/24 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: he’s the Chancellor 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lord Prim Supreme 🙂 (double-pun AND alliteration, yay)
[2008/05/24 10:48] Flyingroc Chung: NL 4-23 is not in force any more?
[2008/05/24 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn awards herself 10 points
[2008/05/24 10:48] Moon Adamant: ahahah
[2008/05/24 10:48] Flyingroc Chung: http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-ind … ge=NL+4-23
[2008/05/24 10:48] Jamie Palisades listens with interest to the Fencing Oldsters
[2008/05/24 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR, yes, with the replacement of the words “The Guild” by “The Chancellor”
[2008/05/24 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note, however,
[2008/05/24 10:49] Flyingroc Chung: so the RA has to approve any changes to public buildings
[2008/05/24 10:49] Moon Adamant: er… beware that wiki lol
[2008/05/24 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that most buildings in public land
[2008/05/24 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: have NOT been purchased
[2008/05/24 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So 4-23 does not apply to those 😉
[2008/05/24 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/24 10:50] Moon Adamant: hmmm, isn’t chancellor act from term 5?
[2008/05/24 10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In fact, very few were ever purchased…
[2008/05/24 10:51] Flyingroc Chung: Hm, this is kind of strange, the intent of that was that we dont have someone who can simply just change things without asking permission
[2008/05/24 10:52] You: So 🙂 I have asked a simple question and got a darn interesting complex answer 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:52] Moon Adamant: FR
[2008/05/24 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are no simple answers in the CDS hehe
[2008/05/24 10:52] Moon Adamant: the thing is
[2008/05/24 10:52] Moon Adamant: look at biergarten again
[2008/05/24 10:52] Moon Adamant: it was done by urusula 4 years ago
[2008/05/24 10:52] Moon Adamant: and kendra had a go at it two years ago
[2008/05/24 10:53] Moon Adamant: almost no prims have perms
[2008/05/24 10:53] You: Gwyn, sure there is when laws are well written – or rewritten (grin) Roc you always can propose new laws, GRIN
[2008/05/24 10:53] Moon Adamant: we have prims in group ‘Neulatenburg’ and ‘SDF’!
[2008/05/24 10:53] Moon Adamant: there is no way, unless Kendra or Urusula came to change stuff
[2008/05/24 10:54] Moon Adamant: to alter the things
[2008/05/24 10:54] You: Quite a few, actually 🙂 Which means all we can do is eject, right?
[2008/05/24 10:54] Moon Adamant: so they must be replaced
[2008/05/24 10:54] Moon Adamant: so that in future
[2008/05/24 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, FR, you can propose, for instance, that the current RA removes the phrase ” to any Objects (objects, scripts, textures, or terrain) sitting on public land which have been purchased by the city”
[2008/05/24 10:54] Moon Adamant: you can do changes
[2008/05/24 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or rather, drops the bit saying “purchased by the city”
[2008/05/24 10:54] Moon Adamant: because new builds will be in correct groups, with correct perms, and a copy be stored with CA
[2008/05/24 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: then it would apply to all buildings on public space, whether purchased or not.
[2008/05/24 10:55] Flyingroc Chung: actually I think overall the RA needs to get out of micromanaging how public structures should be
[2008/05/24 10:55] Moon Adamant: do you still have quorum?
[2008/05/24 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with that, FR
[2008/05/24 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts RA members hmm
[2008/05/24 10:56] Moon Adamant: in any case
[2008/05/24 10:56] You: 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:56] Flyingroc Chung: I think that bill may have been motivated by Dianne’s change of the walls? I dont remember now
[2008/05/24 10:56] Moon Adamant: and to reply to Jamie’s question
[2008/05/24 10:56] Moon Adamant: this Gov Spaces WG
[2008/05/24 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR: very likely, it was me being stubborn about the movement who wanted to delete the Church 😉
[2008/05/24 10:56] You: We are at the end of the scheduled items, so I’m not very concerned
[2008/05/24 10:56] Moon Adamant: aims at making an assessment of current gov spaces, and if necessary draw conclusions
[2008/05/24 10:57] Moon Adamant: recommendations like: ‘rebuiltd this’, ‘use this space for Branch X’, etc
[2008/05/24 10:58] Flyingroc Chung: Hm, ok, we really need to go through our laws and repeal those we dont use
[2008/05/24 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I suppose that the New Guild will present nice exhibits of the proposed changes anyway
[2008/05/24 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha FR yes!
[2008/05/24 10:58] Flyingroc Chung: and, we probably should have a lot more laws that expire
[2008/05/24 10:58] You: Ahh commissions (evil grin)
[2008/05/24 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Watch this space for a bill to be submitted to address that 🙂
[2008/05/24 10:58] You: Moon, are you finished for today?
[2008/05/24 10:58] Moon Adamant: yes, i am, unless further questions?
[2008/05/24 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: None from me….
[2008/05/24 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so next week we’ll meet one hour later than usual?
[2008/05/24 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (wow, we’re even on *time* today!)
[2008/05/24 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!
[2008/05/24 10:59] Moon Adamant: just in time for me to go to the grocer’s!
[2008/05/24 11:00] You: Yes that’s correct
[2008/05/24 11:00] Danton Sideways: Well I’m off, bye everyone
[2008/05/24 11:00] You: We’re adoruned unless there are objections
[2008/05/24 11:00] You: and thank you all
[2008/05/24 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you for coming, Danton!
[2008/05/24 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and, well, thanks all
[2008/05/24 11:00] Moon Adamant: bye Danton
—-
[2008/05/24 11:00] Rose Springvale: hey!
[2008/05/24 11:00] Rose Springvale: smiles
[2008/05/24 11:00] You: Yes, Rose?
[2008/05/24 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for coming, oh clouded one!
[2008/05/24 11:00] Danton Sideways: Bye Rose!
[2008/05/24 11:00] Rose Springvale: isn’t there an open part of this agenda?
[2008/05/24 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh
[2008/05/24 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: GOOD point
[2008/05/24 11:01] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:01] Moon Adamant: the grocers .(
[2008/05/24 11:01] Rose Springvale: just wanted to encourage you all to donate for the Auction
[2008/05/24 11:01] You: That is WHY I was asking if there were objectons, Rose
[2008/05/24 11:01] You: 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2008/05/24 11:01] Rose Springvale: which will be June 8 2-5 pm in AM
[2008/05/24 11:01] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What are you going to auction, Rose? 😉
[2008/05/24 11:01] You: Ah excellent – when’s the deadline for donating?
[2008/05/24 11:01] Rose Springvale smiles slyly
[2008/05/24 11:02] Rose Springvale: June 6 please
[2008/05/24 11:02] Rose Springvale: so we can get them scripted and set out
[2008/05/24 11:02] Moon Adamant: Mr LRA
[2008/05/24 11:02] Moon Adamant: permission to withdraw 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:02] You: Thanks again Moon 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:02] Rose Springvale: bye moon 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:02] You: Works rather like the last one, yes? Where I picked up artwork from Moon and a Burnham hatstand?
[2008/05/24 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
[2008/05/24 11:02] Rose Springvale: similar, yes
[2008/05/24 11:02] Moon Adamant: the burnham hatstand was a rarity
[2008/05/24 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess I can donate old clothes lol
[2008/05/24 11:02] Moon Adamant: goodbye everyone!
[2008/05/24 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye Moonie 😀
[2008/05/24 11:03] Rose Springvale smiles at Gwyn.
[2008/05/24 11:03] Moon Adamant: thank you Jamie for chairing, and thanks the reps 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:03] Rose Springvale: this is not the salvation army 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww
[2008/05/24 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we can only donate *fancy* things??
[2008/05/24 11:03] Rose Springvale: but if you want to donate old clothes, i’ll find a creative use for them 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:03] You: ha – I wouldn’t turn down the contents of GWYN’s closet if I were you
[2008/05/24 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly most of it is non-transfer, Jamie 😉
[2008/05/24 11:03] Rose Springvale: not turning down anything!
[2008/05/24 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:04] Rose Springvale: we’ll have fun with it
[2008/05/24 11:04] Jamie Palisades grins – ah the price of vanity
[2008/05/24 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh and you’re not a cloud any more, Rose!…. much better that way hehe
[2008/05/24 11:04] Rose Springvale: anyway, just wanted it in the record 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:04] Rose Springvale: thanks
[2008/05/24 11:05] You: Anyway I have an idea abut what Gwyn should donate 🙂 and will take it up with her
[2008/05/24 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uuuhh
[2008/05/24 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-oh!
[2008/05/24 11:05] Rose Springvale: hehe
[2008/05/24 11:05] You: and thank YOU Rose for organizing this – sounds like it will be fun
[2008/05/24 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn *covers her ears*
[2008/05/24 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, we need more *fun* events!
[2008/05/24 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw what happened to Maifest? 😉
[2008/05/24 11:06] You: Ask your PIO 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*
[2008/05/24 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: riiiiight
[2008/05/24 11:06] You: And Gwyn have you heard any more from Arria on SL5B? I have not
[2008/05/24 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, hm, uh, no?
[2008/05/24 11:06] You: I will go make some pings then – the deadlines approach 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes indeed, they do…
[2008/05/24 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve heard some vague discussions at the NG
[2008/05/24 11:07] Rose Springvale: guess you are adjourned?
[2008/05/24 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that they were doing something like a “standard CDS booth”?
[2008/05/24 11:07] You: we are 🙂
—
[2008/05/24 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: goodie 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, that could be dropped on the SL5B
[2008/05/24 11:07] Rose Springvale: kk
[2008/05/24 11:07] Rose Springvale: bye 🙂
[2008/05/24 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Depending on the exact date, I’m always glad to do an event or two there
[2008/05/24 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you, Rose :))
[2008/05/24 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye bye!
[end]
RA Meeting: May 31, 2008
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & plans.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
— See discussion last week.
— Draft at: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1871
3. Guild report regarding Sim4 (20 mins: 10h40 – 11h00)
4. Confirmation of SC nominations (15 mins: 11h00 – 11h15)
5. Commerce Commission recommendations (15 mins.: 11h15 – 11h30)
— Drafts expected, carried over from last week, see transcript
7. Other?
8. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 11h45-12h00)
Adjournment: 12h00
Summary
Held in Colonia Nova Praetorium
Non-normative list of significant acts (for convenience only), with approximate transcript times.
Transcript: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1891
====
[2008/05/31 10:09] Call to order
[2008/05/31 10:10] 1a – Assent to recording
[2008/05/31 10:10] 1d – Routine call for transcript corrections
[2008/05/31 10:11] 1c – Routine call for other speakers
[2008/05/31 10:12] 1b – Call for changes to agenda (SC confirmations moved to before item 2)
[2008/05/31 10:16] 1e – Future meeting times
[2008/05/31 10:17] 1f – Consent items (none)
—-
[2008/05/31 10:18] 4 – SC nomination confirmations
[2008/05/31 10:20] —- Dnate Mars presentation
[2008/05/31 10:33] —— Nomination confirmed 7-0-0.
[2008/05/31 10:34] —- Cindy Ecksol presentation
[2008/05/31 11:06] —— Motion to sanction ThePrincess Parisi, seconded [11:07], withdrawn [11:14]
[2008/05/31 11:16] —— Nomination confirmed 4-2-1.
[2008/05/31 11:19] 3 – Colonia Nova West (Sim4)
[2008/05/31 11:20] —- Guild report; Plan noted: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1857
[2008/05/31 11:43] —- Motion to approve plan, sim made; seconded at [11:44]
[2008/05/31 11:52] —— Motion clarified (includes land plot plan)
[2008/05/31 11:56] —— Amendment made to approve the land rent rates proposed by Sudane (same URI) – at the lowest of the four options presented – UNLESS the RA acts within 30 days; seconded [11:57]
[2008/05/31 12:00] ——– Amendment made to amendment, to refer to second highest rates proposed; died for lack of second
[2008/05/31 12:03] ——– Amendment rejected 1-5-1
[2008/05/31 12:06] —— Motion clarified: approves plan, does not instruct Treasurer to purchase sim
[2008/05/31 12:07] —— Original motion approved (approve plan, no rates set) 7-0-0
[2008/05/31 12:08] —- Further discussion of rental rates
[2008/05/31 12:10] —— Motion to set rates (2nd highest as proposed); seconded [12:12]
[2008/05/31 12:12] ——– Further discussion
[2008/05/31 12:33] ——– Consensus to continue disussing at next meeting
[2008/05/31 12:39] Adjournment.
Transcript of 31 May 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Colonia Nova Praetorium
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====
[2008/05/31 10:01] You: Good morning all – forgive me while I do a few IMs to summon folks
[2008/05/31 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: are u trying to brainwash us roc
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: roxanne
[2008/05/31 10:04] Flyingroc Chung: I got song stuck in my head, and so must all of you
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: she bangs
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: i love that one i had it in my head for a year
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i hate you roc
[2008/05/31 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/05/31 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: my heads weird enoough
[2008/05/31 10:05] Beathan Vale: I have one too — I rewrote “the Rose” for my stepdaughter
[2008/05/31 10:05] Beathan Vale: ::sings:: Some say gloves are just some clothing — that covers up your hands
[2008/05/31 10:05] Beathan Vale: ::sings:: Some say gloves are more warming in the cold than wristbands
[2008/05/31 10:05] Beathan Vale: ::sings:: Some say gloves accessorize you better than sleeves alone
[2008/05/31 10:06] You: heh
[2008/05/31 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2008/05/31 10:06] Beathan Vale: ::sings:: I say gloves will not disguise you because your face is not unknown
[2008/05/31 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: CUTE
[2008/05/31 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: mt wont be here
[2008/05/31 10:06] You: Well, we are quorate – almost done with the notices 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe
[2008/05/31 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn sees some future SC members approaching…
[2008/05/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is that floating around you, Dnate??!?
[2008/05/31 10:08] Dnate Mars: I am really sorry guys, an emergancy has come up, I only have about 15 more minutes before I have to leave
[2008/05/31 10:08] Flyingroc Chung: peanut butter and jelly
[2008/05/31 10:08] You: NP and thank you for coming
[2008/05/31 10:08] Dnate Mars: my friends, PB and &J
[2008/05/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh *why*?!
[2008/05/31 10:08] Beathan Vale: hmmm — I also rewrote the marriage scene from Monty Python’s grail to be the DNC rules committee — with Hillary as Launcelot …
[2008/05/31 10:08] Beathan Vale: busy week for me — except for work lol
[2008/05/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Beathan!
[2008/05/31 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
[2008/05/31 10:09] Dnate Mars: I was bored with Shark and Cat?
[2008/05/31 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Cindy, sorry, I hadn’t seen you!)
[2008/05/31 10:09] You: Sonja’s coming 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:09] Cindy Ecksol: that’s ok….I just walked in
—-
[2008/05/31 10:09] You: Let’s get started and call to order
[2008/05/31 10:09] You: proposed agenda is HERE > /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1885
[2008/05/31 10:10] You: One proposal for change is before us in a moment
—-
[2008/05/31 10:10] You: 1a
[2008/05/31 10:10] You: would all present please indicate assent to being recorded. I assent.
[2008/05/31 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn assents
[2008/05/31 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/05/31 10:10] Beathan Vale: so long as my statements are never used for nefarious or Clintonian purposes, I assent
[2008/05/31 10:10] Dnate Mars: I assent
—-
[2008/05/31 10:10] You: 1b – routine notice – let me know if the transcripts are in error please, smile
—-
[2008/05/31 10:11] You: 1c
[2008/05/31 10:11] Cindy Ecksol: assent
[2008/05/31 10:11] You: Any speakers other than RA (and SC nominees) who have an item for us to include on agenda today?
[2008/05/31 10:11] You: not hearing any
[2008/05/31 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: None from me, I’m afraid I have to catch up on my RA homework…
—-
[2008/05/31 10:12] You: 1b (reversed with 1d sorry)
[2008/05/31 10:12] You: Agenda changes? I have one. Dnate is kind enough to join us even though he has to rush off.
[2008/05/31 10:12] You: May we move the vote on his confirmation to before item 2?
[2008/05/31 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: mt is on his way .. i think that we will like to wait for him for that
[2008/05/31 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No problem with me 😀
[2008/05/31 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: he was told it was at 1115
[2008/05/31 10:13] You: and Cindy, I though, might not be able to join us, but since she is here, we can get her done early as well, hm?
[2008/05/31 10:13] You: Well up to you all 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: no cos MT was told it was at 1115 but
[2008/05/31 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: w/e
[2008/05/31 10:13] You: Ah MT
[2008/05/31 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn definitely has no problem with doing the SC vote of confidence on *every member* first
[2008/05/31 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: w/e works for them its fine
[2008/05/31 10:13] You: yes I just heard from him, he expects to be here in 10 mins, he’s momentatily busy in RL of course as you know
[2008/05/31 10:14] You: 🙂 I will move to make SC confirmation #2 (before the current #2) – unless there are no objections ?
[2008/05/31 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: hi sonja
[2008/05/31 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/05/31 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi there, Sonja 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:14] Flyingroc Chung: there are no objections
[2008/05/31 10:15] Flyingroc Chung: from me
[2008/05/31 10:15] Sonja Strom: Hi
[2008/05/31 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No objections here, and ready to vote!
[2008/05/31 10:15] You: OK
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: that’s it for the agenda then
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: 1e
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: Future meetings
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: Please note the Forum posts on this
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: roughly:
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: next week – Alexi’s Chancellor report
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: 7 June
[2008/05/31 10:16] You: after that
[2008/05/31 10:16] Beathan Vale: King County once had this crazy judge who would object and overrule himself during trials — it was a hoot
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: 14 June, (smile) Treasurer report and budget process chat
[2008/05/31 10:17] MT Lundquist: hi
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: Hello
[2008/05/31 10:17] Moon Adamant: hello everyone, sorry i am late
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: (Rose, MT, others, please do assent to recording when you get a chance, if you have not)
[2008/05/31 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi blows MT a kiss
[2008/05/31 10:17] Rose Springvale: assent
[2008/05/31 10:17] MT Lundquist: i assent
—
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: 1f
[2008/05/31 10:17] Sonja Strom: i assent
[2008/05/31 10:17] Moon Adamant: i aseent to recording
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: And consent items today? I know of none
[2008/05/31 10:17] MT Lundquist blows one back
[2008/05/31 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi everybody that just came in 🙂 )
[2008/05/31 10:17] You: Any consent items other than blown kisses?
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn definitely consents on blown kisses .)
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: OK then
[2008/05/31 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i wont blow you a kiss gwyen
—-
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: item 4, which we modified the agenda to take out of order
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: hush 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:18] Moon Adamant: hi Justice
[2008/05/31 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I’ll survive, Prin 😉 )
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: 4
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: Confirming SC nominees
[2008/05/31 10:18] You: please note:
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: 1. majority vote required
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: 2. no action in 30 days = automatic assent
[2008/05/31 10:19] Beathan Vale: Justice — you are sitting on Rose
[2008/05/31 10:19] Justice Soothsayer: sorry
[2008/05/31 10:19] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: 3. Dnate’s first, as he has time constraints
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: 4. we’d asked them to come chat 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:19] You: so here we are
[2008/05/31 10:19] Rose Springvale: i like justice!
[2008/05/31 10:19] Jamie Palisades wrinkles his nose – “I like justice…” heh
[2008/05/31 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi claps
[2008/05/31 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:20] Rose Springvale smiles
—-
[2008/05/31 10:20] You: Dnate? Congratulations on your nomination.
[2008/05/31 10:20] Dnate Mars: Thank you
[2008/05/31 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Congrats indeed 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi puts that snapshot away for safe keeping
[2008/05/31 10:20] You: Anything to share with us? Then I will ask for Qs from RA members.
[2008/05/31 10:20] You: (No no, nothing required, just giving you a chance if you wish)
[2008/05/31 10:20] Beathan Vale: Justice — chair between Rose and me is open
[2008/05/31 10:21] Beathan Vale: I meant “Justice” not “Justrice”
[2008/05/31 10:21] Dnate Mars: I think most of what I have done within the CDS is well known. I have been involved for a long time in the workings of the government
[2008/05/31 10:21] Beathan Vale: now there’s a type
[2008/05/31 10:21] Dnate Mars: I will gladly answer any questions anyone has
[2008/05/31 10:21] You: Hush BV 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi thinks Beathan went to starbucks this am
[2008/05/31 10:22] Dnate Mars: that is all
[2008/05/31 10:22] Flyingroc Chung: whats your position on term limits for SC members?
[2008/05/31 10:22] You: I have one 🙂 What’s the expected time commitment as you understand it, Dnate? We have seen some lonely Deans and long meeting gaps occasionally
[2008/05/31 10:22] You: FR first 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs* right…
[2008/05/31 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: just be upfront and ask dnate what his schedule is like and can he make the time committment necessary
[2008/05/31 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi hates beating around bushes
[2008/05/31 10:23] You: Dnate – Roc asked about term limits?
[2008/05/31 10:23] Dnate Mars: Term limits are an interesting idea that do need to be looked into. At this point it needs to be discussed more before I can make an informed statement
[2008/05/31 10:23] You: 🙂 and my Q about time commitments
[2008/05/31 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i have a Q
[2008/05/31 10:24] Dnate Mars: Time commitmnets, I should be able to work with nearly any schedule. I am very open and flexible, except with unplanned things come up like just now :/
[2008/05/31 10:25] MT Lundquist: quick move jamie
[2008/05/31 10:25] You: 🙂 are there a lot of SC meetings these days? Not really a Q for you I guess 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: so its different now than when you were chancellor right dnate? your schedule is really different now
[2008/05/31 10:25] You: Prin and BV had Qs as well. Princess?
[2008/05/31 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: TheP
[2008/05/31 10:25] Dnate Mars: Yes, very much so, the things that were eating my time back then no longer are there
[2008/05/31 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: well, i just wonder .. if you have to rule on an item and its not clearly stated in the constitution, how will you make that decision
[2008/05/31 10:26] You: 🙂 oo I like that one!
[2008/05/31 10:26] Dnate Mars: I will look at the laws, and the intent behind laws. It is all I have to look at
[2008/05/31 10:27] Dnate Mars: Sometimes I may have vote to return a law to the RA to be made more clear
[2008/05/31 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: nods
[2008/05/31 10:27] You: hm – us, unclear? (grin) – I think Beathan also had a Q 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:27] Beathan Vale: How would you analyze the right of a citizen to property verses the right of the CDS to determine and regulate use of that property — what principles and analysis would you use (in general, hypothetical terms)
[2008/05/31 10:27] Dnate Mars: Also, discussing it with fellow SC members will be important
[2008/05/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Beathan 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your Honour, I object to Beathan’s question.
[2008/05/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, Mr LRA.
[2008/05/31 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:28] You: No honour here, dulci, we are politicians …
[2008/05/31 10:28] You: but
[2008/05/31 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol on “no honour here”!!!
[2008/05/31 10:28] You: it’s for Dnate to answer or not according to his own taste 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:28] Beathan Vale: and — how would you determine “intent” when analyzing issues about which there is no clear constitutional authority
[2008/05/31 10:29] Beathan Vale: and — please describe the history of the world — be brief — lol
[2008/05/31 10:29] You: hah
[2008/05/31 10:29] You: anywhere you want to take all that, Dnate?
[2008/05/31 10:29] Dnate Mars: There will always be things that will be unclear in the constitution, if everything was clear, there would be no need for the SC
[2008/05/31 10:29] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/31 10:29] Beathan Vale: but seriously — the first 2 questions are real —
[2008/05/31 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont have to misbehave today, bv will do it
[2008/05/31 10:30] Dnate Mars: I will do what is best to uphold the principles that the CDS was founded on, and what the laws and constitution reflect
[2008/05/31 10:30] Beathan Vale: ::nod::
[2008/05/31 10:30] Dnate Mars: I do not know enough about the issue you bring up to make a judgement on it right now
[2008/05/31 10:31] You: One quick short follow-up, maybe, Beathan?
[2008/05/31 10:31] Dnate Mars: I will just use what I can to determine what the correct ruling would be
[2008/05/31 10:31] Beathan Vale: fair enough — no I’m done
[2008/05/31 10:31] You: Or have you had your shot?
[2008/05/31 10:31] You: OK 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:31] You: Members are you ready to vote on confirming Dnate’s nomination?
[2008/05/31 10:31] Beathan Vale: yes
[2008/05/31 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i suppose
[2008/05/31 10:31] Sonja Strom: yes
[2008/05/31 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, lol
[2008/05/31 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: sure
[2008/05/31 10:32] You: 🙂 Please state your vote. I vote aye
[2008/05/31 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: mt has to relog
[2008/05/31 10:32] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/31 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/31 10:32] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/31 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: I have worked with Dnate for quite a while and i have always known him to be fair level headed and more and most importnantly wants what is best for CDS and each citizen
[2008/05/31 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: i vote AYE!
[2008/05/31 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I most assuredly vote “aye” as well, with compliments to the Dean for such a great choice, and congratulations on Dnate’s acceptance of that honour!
[2008/05/31 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: and smart
[2008/05/31 10:33] You: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And looks good, too 😉
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: and wise
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: and blue
[2008/05/31 10:33] Dnate Mars: You guys are making be blush
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: ish
[2008/05/31 10:33] You: Approved 7-0-0, right? Did I hear MT?
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: do you blush purple
[2008/05/31 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Blush or Blue-sh? 😉
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: he said aye but he had to rlog
[2008/05/31 10:33] You: kk thanks
[2008/05/31 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: yay
[2008/05/31 10:33] Dnate Mars: I thank you and look forward to serving you
[2008/05/31 10:33] You: and thank you Dnate for sticking with us, time commitments and all, and good luck 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: may the force be with you
[2008/05/31 10:34] Dnate Mars: Thank you, but I do need to run
[2008/05/31 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good luck, and RUN!
[2008/05/31 10:34] Dnate Mars: Good luck Cindy
[2008/05/31 10:34] You: Cindy 🙂 You are our second nominee
—-
[2008/05/31 10:34] Cindy Ecksol: congrats dnate — and thanks!
[2008/05/31 10:34] You: Any words from you before I ask for questions?
[2008/05/31 10:35] Cindy Ecksol: I’ll just comment that when claude asked if I’d be willing to be nominated, my first concern was that I did not have enough experience in CDS to do the job well
[2008/05/31 10:35] Cindy Ecksol: but I’ve spent the last few weeks reading up on CDS history and precedents, and others I’ve consulted have told me that I’ll do fine, so I’m willing to trust their opinions
[2008/05/31 10:36] Cindy Ecksol: assuming that the RA thinks I’m qualified, of course.
[2008/05/31 10:36] You: Thank you. Questions for Cindy?
[2008/05/31 10:36] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/05/31 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/05/31 10:36] Flyingroc Chung: Who is your favorite US supreme court justice?
[2008/05/31 10:36] Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:36] Cindy Ecksol: wow!
[2008/05/31 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I object to FR’s question too 😉
[2008/05/31 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: i object to gwyens objections
[2008/05/31 10:36] You: OK and I have one 🙂 and BV may resurrect his 🙂 MT first
[2008/05/31 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: who is she to object to anything
[2008/05/31 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: object
[2008/05/31 10:37] You: *sigh*
[2008/05/31 10:37] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/31 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m an elected RA member!
[2008/05/31 10:37] Cindy Ecksol: ok, FR, I’ll answer — it’s former justice Sandra Day O’Connor.
[2008/05/31 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/05/31 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: not really but ok
[2008/05/31 10:37] You: pax, you lot. MT has the floor
[2008/05/31 10:37] MT Lundquist: cindy do you recall the last SC meeting at which you were present as a nominee
[2008/05/31 10:37] Beathan Vale: Cindy — other than Souter — she’s mine too — even though her opinions tend to be unreadable
[2008/05/31 10:37] Cindy Ecksol: I was not present as a nominee, just an observer
[2008/05/31 10:38] MT Lundquist: oh i understood that you had already been nominated for the SC at that point
[2008/05/31 10:38] Cindy Ecksol: part of my education process, mt — I had never been to an sc session before
[2008/05/31 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: she had MT, it was known to her
[2008/05/31 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: this makes my point
[2008/05/31 10:38] You: um
[2008/05/31 10:38] You: MT
[2008/05/31 10:38] You: was there a question in there?
[2008/05/31 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: he’s not done
[2008/05/31 10:39] MT Lundquist: that meeting in part looked at whether a member of the RA could eject an unruly person did it not
[2008/05/31 10:39] Cindy Ecksol: actually I’m not sure that was the question….but continue
[2008/05/31 10:39] Beathan Vale: Cindy — given that you are a recent citizen, what will you do to better familiarize yourself with the history (especially legal history) of the CDS and the CDS constitution so that you have the knowledge needed to construe it and the intent of the founders?
[2008/05/31 10:40] MT Lundquist: and at that meeting you decided to ‘Freeze’ hePrincess parisi an RA member giving evidence to the SC did you not?
[2008/05/31 10:40] You: MT still has the floor 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:40] Cindy Ecksol: ah…are you asking if I’ve stopped beating my wife yet?
[2008/05/31 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:41] MT Lundquist: no i’m asking if you froze an RA member giving evidence to the SC
[2008/05/31 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: did he crash?
[2008/05/31 10:41] Cindy Ecksol: no, I did not freeze an RA member giving evidence to the sc
[2008/05/31 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: you did too .. lol
[2008/05/31 10:41] MT Lundquist: you admitted it in my presence at the time
[2008/05/31 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: she did !!
[2008/05/31 10:41] MT Lundquist: i have the chat logs
[2008/05/31 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: oh gosh shes a liar too
[2008/05/31 10:42] MT Lundquist: are you lying now
[2008/05/31 10:42] You: Let’s be civil – which means, let Cindy answer, then see if MT has more questions – then we turn to the next RA member 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:42] Cindy Ecksol: no, I was testing the contention of a witness that there were no other options than to eject a person from public space
[2008/05/31 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: i never said that was my only option
[2008/05/31 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: now you are lying again
[2008/05/31 10:42] Cindy Ecksol: I did not know what “freeze” would do, so it seemed prudent to test it before bringing it up.
[2008/05/31 10:42] MT Lundquist: so did you freeze an RA member giving evidence to the RA
[2008/05/31 10:42] MT Lundquist: yes or no
[2008/05/31 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: thats the truth! she did it….finally
[2008/05/31 10:43] MT Lundquist: so you chose to do it in an SC session
[2008/05/31 10:43] Cindy Ecksol: sorry — I am confused. what is this about an ra member in the ra being frozen?
[2008/05/31 10:43] MT Lundquist: on an RA member giving evidence
[2008/05/31 10:43] You: MT, you and Cindy seem to disagree, on some details but not others. Seems clear enough. Is there anything more to be said about your question? Or do we move to the next one? Ideally without name calling.
[2008/05/31 10:43] MT Lundquist: well my point here is i feel that Cindy display extreme irresponsibility in doing that
[2008/05/31 10:44] MT Lundquist: and she seemed to try and evade the truth a moment ago
[2008/05/31 10:44] You: ok. Both points made 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:44] MT Lundquist: i do not consider that a good basis for her to become an sc member
[2008/05/31 10:44] Cindy Ecksol: just one moment, JP — I object to that statement by MT
[2008/05/31 10:44] Beathan Vale: well — I think her explanation indicates the opposite — she did not want to say something that might be untrue — so she needed to test it first
[2008/05/31 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: WE………..know you better and have been affliated with you longer than the rest of th e members of CDS, and we the members of NUCARE strongly object to you being a member of the SC, you have shown extreme lack of judgement on many occasions and do not have the best interest in mind of CDS
[2008/05/31 10:44] Beathan Vale: this dead horse is well-beaten
[2008/05/31 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan you were not there
[2008/05/31 10:44] You: *ahem*
[2008/05/31 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: and you do not know what we know
[2008/05/31 10:44] You: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:45] You: would all please be still for a moment
[2008/05/31 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: its one of many many instances of lack of judgement
[2008/05/31 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and poor choices
[2008/05/31 10:45] Cindy Ecksol sighs
[2008/05/31 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and disregard for the citizens
[2008/05/31 10:45] You: we can in fact disvuss hot items in cool tones, hm?
[2008/05/31 10:45] You: Prin
[2008/05/31 10:45] You: you are out of order now. Last request
[2008/05/31 10:46] You: I *think* MT was done with his question – and got an answer – and didn;t like it – and tht’s OK. And Cindy objected to MT’s statement, and that’s OK too.
[2008/05/31 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i do
[2008/05/31 10:46] You: And we are done with that thread.
[2008/05/31 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: only that i was there and MT is right
[2008/05/31 10:46] You: And it is Princess’s turn for any civil question.
[2008/05/31 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: how do i ask a question to a person who lies, and will twist the truth to her own side and is not NOT the person who will best serve CDS,
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i cannot
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i will only say
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: i know her best
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: and i do NOT approve
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: not for personal reasons
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: but for the benefit of CDS
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: whic h i love
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: and i support
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: and she tries to damage
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: she is the enemy within
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: CDS
[2008/05/31 10:47] You: OK, that’s a statement, but perfectly in order. 🙂 Any other questions from the RA?
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: we vote NO
[2008/05/31 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/05/31 10:47] Beathan Vale: ok — I have my q
[2008/05/31 10:48] Cindy Ecksol: I saw it back there, beathan…hold on a sec while I retrieve
[2008/05/31 10:48] You: 🙂 go BV
[2008/05/31 10:48] Beathan Vale: Cindy — given that you are a recent citizen, what will you do to better familiarize yourself with the history (especially legal history) of the CDS and the CDS constitution so that you have the knowledge needed to construe it and the intent of the founders?
[2008/05/31 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi raises hand…..!!
[2008/05/31 10:48] Cindy Ecksol: ah, yes….about familiarzing myself with history of cds
[2008/05/31 10:49] Cindy Ecksol: I’ve spent some time in the last few weeks looking over the available history in the wiki and of course the constitution.
[2008/05/31 10:49] Cindy Ecksol: here in cds, time flies a LOT faster than in RL….so in four years we’ve got about 20 years of “history”
[2008/05/31 10:50] Cindy Ecksol: maybe more….it’s been quite a run.
[2008/05/31 10:50] Cindy Ecksol: sitting on the SC, I think that not only the constitution as documented and the laws as passed have relevance — so also does the flow of history. there are things in RA logs, for instance, that may need to be referred to in order to make good rulings
[2008/05/31 10:51] Cindy Ecksol: my intent is to keep that in mind whrn issues arise and go back and look (or talk to those who have been around for longer than I) when such matters arise
[2008/05/31 10:51] You: Hello to visitors, please sit or move, this is a formal meeting 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:51] You: Cindy is done with Beathan’s Q. All done BV?
[2008/05/31 10:52] Beathan Vale: one more
[2008/05/31 10:52] Flyingroc Chung: I hear somebody typing
[2008/05/31 10:52] Cindy Ecksol thinks it’s beathan
[2008/05/31 10:53] Beathan Vale: there are allegations that you do not work and play well with others — given that the SC is a team can we get a commitment from you that you will be a “team player” — and can you tell us what you think of the other SC members
[2008/05/31 10:53] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2008/05/31 10:53] Justice Soothsayer: present company excluded?
[2008/05/31 10:53] Jamie Palisades mutters: aside from Justice’s suit
[2008/05/31 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:53] Cindy Ecksol: well, I cannot give you an opinion of the other SC members because I honestly do not know them well.
[2008/05/31 10:54] Cindy Ecksol: however I can say that the vast majority of those with whom I have spent time in CDS and worked on projects with would probably tell you that I’m a pretty good team player.
[2008/05/31 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: you team doesnt agree.
[2008/05/31 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: yours you picked
[2008/05/31 10:55] Cindy Ecksol: I generally do not like to act alone, but that is not to say that when an issue is not being addressed, I will not step forward and take action that I think in necessary for the good of the community
[2008/05/31 10:55] MT Lundquist: like placing walls in colonia nova
[2008/05/31 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: or your own good ?? and how you look to others??
[2008/05/31 10:55] You: I think Cindy’s done. Roc did you have something?
[2008/05/31 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: the hot tub was damaging the CDS ! you cant wait for the process.. you take it in your own hands
[2008/05/31 10:56] You: ssst
[2008/05/31 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: or your faction voting to not run for RA and you doint what you want
[2008/05/31 10:56] You: Prin 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: well.. come one.. im sorry
[2008/05/31 10:56] Cindy Ecksol: Jamie, may I address that?
[2008/05/31 10:56] You: Is this your final statement? Or did you have a question?
[2008/05/31 10:56] MT Lundquist: there is a point here about due process
[2008/05/31 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: she has a canned statement .. go on
[2008/05/31 10:56] You: In a moment Cin, let’s get the Q out
[2008/05/31 10:56] MT Lundquist: that cindy didnt follow
[2008/05/31 10:56] Flyingroc Chung: cindy answered my question about the justices
[2008/05/31 10:57] MT Lundquist: does not bode well for the SC
[2008/05/31 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: she knew that was important.. its a pattern
[2008/05/31 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: its not isolated
[2008/05/31 10:57] Flyingroc Chung: and she picked the safe one 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: MT, Prin, I want this to be aired, but not re-re-hashed. Are you done with stating your question?
[2008/05/31 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: she wants to give us her canned statement about it, let her
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: Well
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: I hope I do not surprise
[2008/05/31 10:57] You: but I was going to ask about it myself
[2008/05/31 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:58] Flyingroc Chung: sridhar, we can hear you 🙂
[2008/05/31 10:58] Sridhar Shepherd: sorry
[2008/05/31 10:58] Cindy Ecksol: It’s a valid question, and an important one
[2008/05/31 10:58] You: Personally I did not approve of Prin ejecting a citizen from here — though when acting in official capacity, I have to rely on law, not “personal taste” .. but …
[2008/05/31 10:58] You: .. I didn’t like CIndy’s use of a tech tool to freeze Prin any more than that.
[2008/05/31 10:59] You: So Cin, I too am very interested in your take on whether that tactic was ultimately legit in a public meeting.
[2008/05/31 10:59] You: That’s all I wanted yo say. You wanted to respond?
[2008/05/31 10:59] Cindy Ecksol: ah… that’s not the question I thought you were asking.
[2008/05/31 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: no shes talking about when she built walls around our land
[2008/05/31 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: cos she disagreed with the chancellor
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: ah 🙂 sorry
[2008/05/31 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: No, Jamie, had I understood what the “freeze” would do, I would not have considered it a “proper tactic” in a public meeting.
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: Let’s talk about the walls then
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: Please go ahead Cindy
[2008/05/31 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: same issue though, tell us why you wont wait for the process cindy … same how you ran for RA without the factions apporoval
[2008/05/31 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2008/05/31 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: three instances where you do what you want
[2008/05/31 11:00] Beathan Vale: I don’t see how a citizens landscaping improvements to their property is at all relevant to their ability to competently serve on the SC
[2008/05/31 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: not what the process says
[2008/05/31 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: ok….I’m confused. are we talking about the wall or about the freeze?
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: Prin. Cindy has the floor 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:00] You: Walls
[2008/05/31 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: ok, walls.
[2008/05/31 11:01] MT Lundquist: not her property Beathan another citizens
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: she built a wall around what she didnt like beathean on a citizens land, even though the chancellor approved it
[2008/05/31 11:01] You: hush please
[2008/05/31 11:01] Cindy Ecksol: actually the wall was built on public property
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: cos she disagred with the chancellor
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: yes to hide a citizzens build
[2008/05/31 11:01] Cindy Ecksol: I did not do it because I disagreed with the chancellor.
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: you built on the sidewalk
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: tell us why then
[2008/05/31 11:01] Cindy Ecksol: I did it because the chancellor was refusing to act on a clear violation of the covenant.
[2008/05/31 11:01] Moon Adamant: was a waiver of the chancellor duly made public in reference to that?
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: why didnt you wait for the
[2008/05/31 11:01] You: (We are running over time but I regard this as sufficiently important to merit it. Any RA member who disagrees, feel free to call for an immediate vote.)
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: it was his opinion that
[2008/05/31 11:01] Cindy Ecksol: I did not do it on my own, I did it in conjunction with two other citizens
[2008/05/31 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: YOU DISAGREED WITH HIM !
[2008/05/31 11:01] MT Lundquist: so you did disagree with the chancellor
[2008/05/31 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: HE SAID IT WAS NOT A HOT TUB
[2008/05/31 11:02] MT Lundquist: and acted unilaterally
[2008/05/31 11:02] You: Prin. Last request. Please let her talk without interruption.
[2008/05/31 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: SO DID DNATE
[2008/05/31 11:02] You: …
[2008/05/31 11:03] Jamie Palisades waits for Cindy’s response, and then her indication that she is done.
[2008/05/31 11:03] Cindy Ecksol: I disagreed on his unwillingness to act. he told me later that he did not act because he had “more important things” to deal with and he did not think that those of us (not just me) who had brought this to his attention were “serious” about it.
[2008/05/31 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: he acted in a way you disagreed with, you lie again
[2008/05/31 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: he acted
[2008/05/31 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: you disagreed and took in your own hands
[2008/05/31 11:03] Cindy Ecksol: building the wall was a way to draw attention to the issue in a clear and humorous way. it forced the chancellor to take the issue seriously and act on it.
[2008/05/31 11:03] MT Lundquist: so you regularly act as judge jury and executioner then!!!
[2008/05/31 11:03] You: OK. Prin, MT you are out of order.
[2008/05/31 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: lol humorous to block a citizens commercial land from view of the street
[2008/05/31 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: you all need to know the truth
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: IMs to me please cease.
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: ..
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: ..
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: ..
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: Cindy please wait.
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: Here’s what I am going to do.
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: And yes I am ignoring all IMs 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: ALL of them (rolls eyes)
[2008/05/31 11:04] You: 1. I will move now to ask the RA to vote to sanction Prin for interrupting continually.
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 2. I will call for immediate vote.
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 3. We’ll vote.
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 4. I will END the meeting 🙂 if it continues
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 5. If we restore order I will ask Cindy to continue
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: 6. If you silly people don’t get this done, she will be APPROVED by time lapse anyway 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:05] You: now then
[2008/05/31 11:06] You: I move that the RA sanction Princess – simply a statement of disapproval – for continued interruption of a spakder after repeating requests to come to order.
[2008/05/31 11:06] You: sorry for the typos 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/05/31 11:06] You: Is there a second? I didn’t rehearse this 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I would just kindly request Princess NOT to interrupt the LRA any more
[2008/05/31 11:07] You: Just as a converstaional point, I will mention that if you do not support me on this I resign immeiately 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If she disagrees with the request, I’ll second the motion 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:07] Flyingroc Chung: sigh
[2008/05/31 11:07] Flyingroc Chung: I second
[2008/05/31 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:07] You: I cannot keep order without the RA’s support. Not ban, not eject, not freeze – just a resolution.
[2008/05/31 11:07] You: and it is OK with me if you vote it down.
[2008/05/31 11:07] MT Lundquist: i object to blackmail mr LRA
[2008/05/31 11:07] MT Lundquist: in obtaining a second
[2008/05/31 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, MT, you’re right
[2008/05/31 11:08] You: It has been moved and seconded. Prin, I value your contributions, but not the constant rude interruptions. I hope we Can have the one without the other. Does anyone wish to speak to this motion?
[2008/05/31 11:08] Moon Adamant: blackmail?
[2008/05/31 11:08] You: No blackmail 🙂 You can get along without me just fine.
[2008/05/31 11:08] You: Any one wish to speak to the motion?
[2008/05/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are things in the Constitution referring to the “no ultimatum” rule 😉
[2008/05/31 11:08] MT Lundquist: exactly
[2008/05/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway
[2008/05/31 11:08] Flyingroc Chung: no gwyn, we removed that 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:08] You: I would be grateful for your explanation, Gwyn, you know much more about it than me 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pfft. Who was the silly person who removed that??
[2008/05/31 11:08] MT Lundquist: I believe you need to withdraw the motion now on those grounds
[2008/05/31 11:09] Beathan Vale: I don’t recall that being removed
[2008/05/31 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* if it was removed, it stays removed
[2008/05/31 11:09] You: I see that as a valid point of order. If I am acting unconstitutionally I must withdraw it 🙂 Who can point me to that law?
[2008/05/31 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi moves that we vote
[2008/05/31 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi: vote on cindy’s approveal
[2008/05/31 11:09] Beathan Vale: no JP — your “sanction” is allowed by the RA rules
[2008/05/31 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: sanction me, but lets vote i dont care about the sanction
[2008/05/31 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i thoyght the public had a right to know
[2008/05/31 11:10] Beathan Vale: it is not an ultimatum under that term of the Constituion — which was addressed more to Ulrika’s “do what I do or I will rain holy hell on the CDS and destroy all public buildings”
[2008/05/31 11:10] You: I think that if we proceed immediately to a vote on CIndy’s nomination we will have acheived our purpose. If that’s acceptable to everyone I would be happy to withdraw my motion, if the seconder agrees. FR?
[2008/05/31 11:10] MT Lundquist: it rather felt like an ultimatum
[2008/05/31 11:10] You: (And no, no plans vis a vis holy hell )
[2008/05/31 11:10] MT Lundquist: i resign if i dont get a second
[2008/05/31 11:10] MT Lundquist: !!!!!!
[2008/05/31 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/05/31 11:10] You: only a resignation in the face of my failure to keep order, MT
[2008/05/31 11:11] You: There’s an easy way not to run into such uncomfortable issues 🙂 all must stay in order
[2008/05/31 11:11] You: Roc? OK with you if I withdraw my motion? You were the seconder
[2008/05/31 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m for going straightforward into the vote of confidence on Cindy’s nomination.
[2008/05/31 11:11] MT Lundquist: then withdraw the motion and ask
[2008/05/31 11:11] Flyingroc Chung: in any case the constitutional ban on ultimatums does not apply to jamie, even if it were still there
[2008/05/31 11:11] Flyingroc Chung: “Citizens are may not issue departure ultimatums to members of the government. In return the government will not issue discharge ultimatums to citizens.”
[2008/05/31 11:11] Cindy Ecksol: 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:12] Beathan Vale: FR — yes
[2008/05/31 11:12] Flyingroc Chung: I’m ok with the motion’s withdrawal
[2008/05/31 11:12] Beathan Vale: and internal RA sanctions are not “departure orders” — and are specifically allowed by RA rules
[2008/05/31 11:12] Beathan Vale: although, to sanction an RA member requires an RA vote
[2008/05/31 11:12] You: OK I take that as a yes 🙂 But I warn you all that if you always will avoid acting formally to sanction, we will not be able to maintain order under strained circumstances
[2008/05/31 11:12] MT Lundquist: but an ultimatum is
[2008/05/31 11:12] MT Lundquist: even in RA
[2008/05/31 11:13] You: MT, while I do not see the constitutional rule as applying here – even with Gwyn’s hint to the contrary, basd on my own reading of it – it will be moot if I withdraw it 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:13] Flyingroc Chung: BTW, this is actualy a fairly big problem, the two versions of the constitution are not in sync anymore
[2008/05/31 11:13] You: so I’d suggest we not try to beat that issue into shape, shrug
[2008/05/31 11:13] You: Roc – later please?
[2008/05/31 11:13] Flyingroc Chung: sure 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:14] You: I withdraw my motion, and ask for an immediate vote on CIndy’s confirmation without further debate.
[2008/05/31 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: on behalf of the nuCARE faction we vote NO NO NO Cindy is not suited for SC, not in her ability to care what is best for CDS and to follow procedure.
[2008/05/31 11:14] You: Members please state their vote. I abstain.
[2008/05/31 11:14] MT Lundquist: nay
[2008/05/31 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote aye.
[2008/05/31 11:14] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/31 11:14] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/31 11:15] You: Let’s see – that’s 3-2-1 and no BV vote.
[2008/05/31 11:15] Beathan Vale: this is a tough one for me — I am not sure what to make of the allegations and I am concerned about the “freeze” and the walls …
[2008/05/31 11:15] Cindy Ecksol thinks that “debate” was cut off too early
[2008/05/31 11:16] Beathan Vale: but, I vote aye — with an asterix …
[2008/05/31 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We all do mistakes, beathan. Some citizens here remember when I returned *all scripted objects* in NFS once by a silly mistake
[2008/05/31 11:16] Beathan Vale: I expect better behavior from a sitting SC member
[2008/05/31 11:16] Moon Adamant: so it’s passed, Mr. LRA
[2008/05/31 11:16] Beathan Vale: brb
[2008/05/31 11:16] MT Lundquist: mistakes are one thing, delibrate acts another
[2008/05/31 11:16] You: Cindy, you are confirmed, 4-2-1. And I agree that debate was cut off, but I was unable to keep order any better than that, for which I apolgize.
[2008/05/31 11:16] Justice Soothsayer looks around for the asterisk he frequently wears
[2008/05/31 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: barely.
[2008/05/31 11:16] Cindy Ecksol: thank you all.
[2008/05/31 11:16] Moon Adamant: Congratulations Cindy 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Congrats 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:16] You: Congratulations and best of luck.
[2008/05/31 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: pathetic really
[2008/05/31 11:16] Justice Soothsayer: Congrats, Cindy.
[2008/05/31 11:17] Rose Springvale: congratulations cindy
[2008/05/31 11:17] Cindy Ecksol: thanks
[2008/05/31 11:17] You: and we are – heh – a little behind on our agenda
—-
[2008/05/31 11:17] You: ladies and gentlemen: we have a choice
[2008/05/31 11:17] MT Lundquist: this is not a good day for CDS
[2008/05/31 11:17] Rose Springvale: sighs
[2008/05/31 11:17] You: next item would be 2 Commerce Commission … but Sim4 also is an issue with a deadline
[2008/05/31 11:18] You: even more so that item 2 GMP
[2008/05/31 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I had a comment, but I’ll withdraw my request to comment for the sake of expediency
[2008/05/31 11:18] Moon Adamant: i’ll have to leave in about 40 minutes time
[2008/05/31 11:18] Moon Adamant: i am sorry
[2008/05/31 11:19] You: so I suggest we consider taking up Sim4 (agenda item 3) next because that’s the one with the most people and money riding on it imminnently. I am proposing to put GMP after Sim4. Moon, would that make more sense to the Guild’s needs?
[2008/05/31 11:19] You: or do we need to act on GMP first?
[2008/05/31 11:19] Moon Adamant: no, it’s perfect ok
[2008/05/31 11:19] You: ok
[2008/05/31 11:19] Moon Adamant: i can start with CN-West
—-
[2008/05/31 11:19] You: item 3 then
[2008/05/31 11:20] You: yes please
[2008/05/31 11:20] Moon Adamant: i am sorry for not being able to prepare you a better doc
[2008/05/31 11:20] Moon Adamant: but the three oxes before me show links to to the plan
[2008/05/31 11:20] Moon Adamant: yeloow box is the plan
[2008/05/31 11:20] Moon Adamant: sim map
[2008/05/31 11:20] Moon Adamant: it is an iteration of Symo’s and Ulysse’s plan
[2008/05/31 11:21] Moon Adamant: it features 42 prims with a 2x prim multiplier, as requested
[2008/05/31 11:21] Moon Adamant: public prims is a little over 10%
[2008/05/31 11:21] Moon Adamant: and it agrees with the GMP
[2008/05/31 11:22] Moon Adamant: next, on teh orange box, you see the table that confirms the data that i have given you
[2008/05/31 11:22] Moon Adamant: and on the red box, are estimates on the sim financial viability calculated by rates
[2008/05/31 11:23] Moon Adamant: these, i feel, demand more discussion from the RA
[2008/05/31 11:23] Moon Adamant: it has been traditional that the RA sets the rate L$/m2 for each sim
[2008/05/31 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi thinks land will be free soon
[2008/05/31 11:24] Moon Adamant: any questions?
[2008/05/31 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i do
[2008/05/31 11:24] Sridhar Shepherd: Nice meeting u all have a nice day
[2008/05/31 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: the bottom is falling out of the land market
[2008/05/31 11:24] Moon Adamant: bye Sridhar
[2008/05/31 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: bye my friend
[2008/05/31 11:24] You: Ta Sridhar
[2008/05/31 11:25] You: hm
[2008/05/31 11:25] Moon Adamant: is that it?
[2008/05/31 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: well what about the land prices dropping.. 4l a sq meter
[2008/05/31 11:25] You: Moon, are there recommendations for pricing inherent in the projections?
[2008/05/31 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: and below
[2008/05/31 11:25] Moon Adamant: well
[2008/05/31 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: we saw land under 4l a sq m last week
[2008/05/31 11:25] You: I agree with Prin, we should set ou pricies wiht an eye to the market, not necessary just do what we always have done
[2008/05/31 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: 3.99 a sq meter last week
[2008/05/31 11:26] You: 🙂 and THEN see if we still break even
[2008/05/31 11:26] Moon Adamant: what i can answer is that for months people have been suggesting that there are scores of people wanting to join the RA
[2008/05/31 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: lol .. whoooaah nelly
[2008/05/31 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: CDS
[2008/05/31 11:26] Jamie Palisades shudders
[2008/05/31 11:26] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/05/31 11:26] Moon Adamant: and also, that the person who extimated these rates runs a very sucessfull commununity of 40 sims
[2008/05/31 11:26] Moon Adamant: CDS, pardon*
[2008/05/31 11:27] Flyingroc Chung: are we looking at monthly fees or purchase price?
[2008/05/31 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: true we are a higher value than mainland, but……. time has passed, a lot of time i might add.. and since then the land prices in sl have plummeted
[2008/05/31 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: the slowdown of the guild is costing us a lot
[2008/05/31 11:27] You: hm
[2008/05/31 11:27] Moon Adamant: slowdown?
[2008/05/31 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: the long time it has taken to get the sim out
[2008/05/31 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: if it had been done quickly
[2008/05/31 11:28] You: so these are Sudane’s numbers, Moon, just to be clear, yes?
[2008/05/31 11:28] Moon Adamant: yes, Jamie
[2008/05/31 11:28] Rose Springvale points out the only land for sale in cds is 2048 selleing for 60000
[2008/05/31 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: lol rose, land sold yesterday.
[2008/05/31 11:28] MT Lundquist: selling NOT bought
[2008/05/31 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: land sells very quickly in cds
[2008/05/31 11:28] You: hmmmm
[2008/05/31 11:28] You: so
[2008/05/31 11:28] Moon Adamant: Princess, planning time is not wasted time – this sim process has actually been much faster than any other sim in the CDS
[2008/05/31 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: i havent seen anything stay on the market a week
[2008/05/31 11:29] Rose Springvale: just point of information. that’s all that’s for sale
[2008/05/31 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: ty rose
[2008/05/31 11:29] Moon Adamant: Princess, i don’t understand you
[2008/05/31 11:29] Cindy Ecksol scratches head….if demand is so high, why the concern about pricing?
[2008/05/31 11:29] Moon Adamant: first you say the market is going down
[2008/05/31 11:29] Moon Adamant: then you say land sells very quickly in the CDS
[2008/05/31 11:29] Flyingroc Chung: will someone please answer my question? are we setting monthly rates, or the purchase price?
[2008/05/31 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i understand we have many forces in the market…. but prices are low now
[2008/05/31 11:29] Moon Adamant: so … where do we stand?
[2008/05/31 11:29] You: Let’s see. Before this gets into a disorganized wnadering chat — really it is our job to accept, or reject and change, the projected numbers and prices, yes? Is anyone proposing to change them?
[2008/05/31 11:29] Cindy Ecksol: we have to set both FR
[2008/05/31 11:30] Flyingroc Chung: and TP, is the $4/sqm number a monthly fee or pruchase price?
[2008/05/31 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: the two factors interact thats all.
[2008/05/31 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn definitely will second the opinion of the *experts* who have set the prices, and agrees with whatever the *experts* say.
[2008/05/31 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: purchase price
[2008/05/31 11:30] Moon Adamant: but not in contrary sense, as you imply
[2008/05/31 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: who are the experts that set these prices
[2008/05/31 11:31] You: Roc, as I understand it, one outcome here is that we approve Su’s recommendations, suppored by the Guild, as to prices and rent. Another is that we change them. A third is that we punt and think more.
[2008/05/31 11:31] Flyingroc Chung: The price in the forums link looks like monthly fees, no?
[2008/05/31 11:31] Moon Adamant: i am seeing if the expert is around
[2008/05/31 11:32] Beathan Vale: brb
[2008/05/31 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess, the prices are set by the Treasurer
[2008/05/31 11:32] Moon Adamant: not available atm
[2008/05/31 11:32] Flyingroc Chung: Sudane did *not* recommend a pruchase price?
[2008/05/31 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If she did, FR, I haven’t seen it.
[2008/05/31 11:32] You: hmmm
[2008/05/31 11:33] You: we CAN approve the rent rates and leave it to Alexi and Sudane, if that is what we wish
[2008/05/31 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i don see the numbers .. sorry
[2008/05/31 11:33] You: … or say ‘set prices generally consistent with other CDS land bearing proportionately similar prim count” 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:33] Moon Adamant: pull down the page till Sudane’s post
[2008/05/31 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with either suggestion, so far as that means that we can go ahead and buy the sim? Please?
[2008/05/31 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pretty Please!
[2008/05/31 11:33] Flyingroc Chung: TP… viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1857&sid=31f4474e5d0a2c7fdff9ad1eeaf6b51f#p11319
[2008/05/31 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: the point of these sims were to get citizens that were able to live here that were not “rich”
[2008/05/31 11:34] Cindy Ecksol grins at sudane
[2008/05/31 11:34] Cindy Ecksol at gwyn…
[2008/05/31 11:34] Moon Adamant: but the RA voted a double multiplier
[2008/05/31 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/05/31 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: yes, lets keep it in the club
[2008/05/31 11:35] Moon Adamant: are you laughing about RA decisions?
[2008/05/31 11:35] Moon Adamant: anyway
[2008/05/31 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: will someone cut and paste the new numbers then cos i cant find it
[2008/05/31 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: same as CN?
[2008/05/31 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont see any numbers
[2008/05/31 11:35] You: ..um are the new numbers not in the colored boxes?
[2008/05/31 11:35] Moon Adamant: scroll back, FR posted them for you
[2008/05/31 11:36] Flyingroc Chung: sudane set 4 different options:
[2008/05/31 11:36] Flyingroc Chung: Rate = 2.133/month ( a 512 parcel costs 1092 and a 1024 parcel costs 2184 ) we make US$217/month… not enough. Rate = 2.986/month ( a 512 parcel costs 1528 and a 1024 parcel costs 3056 ) we make US303/month… just BARELY enough Using the 2x multiplier rates: Rate = 4.266/month ( a 512 parcel costs 2184 and a 1024 parcel costs 4368 ) we make US$434/month… a healthy margin Rate = 5.972/month ( a 512 parcel costs 3056 and a 1024 parcel costs 6112 ) we make US$606/month… a very healthy margin
[2008/05/31 11:36] Moon Adamant: anyway
[2008/05/31 11:36] Flyingroc Chung: ergh, sorry, new lines dont print out correctly anymore
[2008/05/31 11:36] Moon Adamant: what is important here is the political decision of the RA
[2008/05/31 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i see sorry
[2008/05/31 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: all our fault,
[2008/05/31 11:37] You: ah
[2008/05/31 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: ok long as you know that right now i can buy a 512 for 2125
[2008/05/31 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: apples and oranges
[2008/05/31 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: but a point of reference
[2008/05/31 11:38] Flyingroc Chung: how much would you pay to *keep* that 512 for a month, tp?
[2008/05/31 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: our land is then worth five times what mainland is
[2008/05/31 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: ten dollars a month
[2008/05/31 11:38] Moon Adamant: but our territory has a lot of charactheristics that mainland hasn’t
[2008/05/31 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: sure no doubt moon
[2008/05/31 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: i understand that
[2008/05/31 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re not competing with the mainland, Princess, we never did
[2008/05/31 11:39] You: hmmmmm
[2008/05/31 11:39] You: so
[2008/05/31 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: thats not the point gywn
[2008/05/31 11:39] Flyingroc Chung: we dont know that we are setting it up as 5x the mainland because purchase price is not the same as monthly fees.
[2008/05/31 11:39] You: just to check for purposes of consistent action: We COULD, could we not, approve the PLAN (plat map) without approving rates yet?
[2008/05/31 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: yes
[2008/05/31 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: i was wrong
[2008/05/31 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: its more like 5 dollars a month
[2008/05/31 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: its the cheapest linden acct that lets you own land
[2008/05/31 11:40] You: Knowing that the proposed rates demonstrate that it’s within feasible ranges
[2008/05/31 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: and a 512 is no added tier
[2008/05/31 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i think they are still to o high………
[2008/05/31 11:40] You: Prin? What do you think we should do? I hear your concerns, but not how you think we should proceed
[2008/05/31 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i think these prices are too high
[2008/05/31 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: id like a single prim proposal
[2008/05/31 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/05/31 11:41] Moon Adamant: the rates are decided by the RA
[2008/05/31 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: can you do that in a week
[2008/05/31 11:41] You: hmmmm
[2008/05/31 11:41] Moon Adamant: no
[2008/05/31 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: delete delete delete
[2008/05/31 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: done
[2008/05/31 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: CN: 512 sqm parcels = between L$1092 and 1528 / month. Now, on the mainland, you pay US6/month, or L$1620
[2008/05/31 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: for single-prim
[2008/05/31 11:41] Moon Adamant: and in fact, you already have
[2008/05/31 11:42] Moon Adamant: Using the 1x multiplier rates, like on CN: Rate = 2.133/month ( a 512 parcel costs 1092 and a 1024 parcel costs 2184 ) we make US$217/month… not enough. Rate = 2.986/month ( a 512 parcel costs 1528 and a 1024 parcel costs 3056 ) we make US303/month… just BARELY enough
[2008/05/31 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: 7.05 dollars a month
[2008/05/31 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: the money disappears from what i can tell anyway
[2008/05/31 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: US$72 for yearly Premium accounts
[2008/05/31 11:42] Moon Adamant: you see that with 1* multiplier, you can’t pay the sim
[2008/05/31 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: apparently theres no money for the guided tour
[2008/05/31 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: you dont have money to reimburse me for the christmas party
[2008/05/31 11:42] Sonja Strom: Maybe we could start out with these suggested rates, and see how they work.
[2008/05/31 11:42] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/05/31 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and i get yelled at when im a few hours late
[2008/05/31 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, anyway, I move a motion to vote on the plan *today*, and to order the sim *now*
[2008/05/31 11:43] Cindy Ecksol: ok…. the “premium account” rate is $10 per month. and that’s for single-prim land. Our “double prim” price is less than $10 US per month….how is that “too much”?
[2008/05/31 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: until it’s built, we can discuss it further
[2008/05/31 11:43] ThePrincess Parisi: so where is all the money we make i think we need to get our house in order like salzie sayds
[2008/05/31 11:43] Sonja Strom: We could adjust them later.
[2008/05/31 11:43] MT Lundquist: 84.60 gwyn if you pay VAT
[2008/05/31 11:43] Flyingroc Chung: I think that $2.986/sq/month is fairly cheap for double prims…
[2008/05/31 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ah yes, MT, you’re right on that!)
[2008/05/31 11:43] ThePrincess Parisi: well for the elite it will work FR
[2008/05/31 11:43] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/05/31 11:43] Moon Adamant: notice the following
[2008/05/31 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we’re actually cheaper than the mainland what’s the problem then?
[2008/05/31 11:43] Moon Adamant: Using the 2x multiplier rates:
[2008/05/31 11:43] ThePrincess Parisi: but it is a damn shame that we cant build a sim that a newbie or someone that isnt fricken rich can own
[2008/05/31 11:43] Moon Adamant: Rate = 4.266/month ( a 512 parcel costs 2184 and a 1024 parcel costs 4368 ) we make US$434/month… a healthy margin
[2008/05/31 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and does anyone second my motion on voting for the plan now and authorising the Estate Owner to order a new sim?)
[2008/05/31 11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: oh gwyn get real
[2008/05/31 11:44] Moon Adamant: this means that we almost get the double of what the sim costs us per month
[2008/05/31 11:44] Cindy Ecksol: exactly…2184 is less than $10 US per month…!!
[2008/05/31 11:44] Moon Adamant: perhaps that rate can be lowered
[2008/05/31 11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: im sorry i have to go
[2008/05/31 11:44] You: …. I have a process suggestion 🙂 I think I have heard NO opposition to the plat map – and GENERAL agreement that this is feasible – and only some moderate plans about possible fiddling with the pricing. SO: let me ask our designated experts. Moon, is it sensible, from a planning perspective, to approve the Sim purchase and map BEFORE we have final prices? Or not?
[2008/05/31 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Cindy
[2008/05/31 11:44] You: I missed that as a motion Gwyn, sorry 🙂 I second it. Can Moon tell us if the Guild would have a problem with proceeding that way (“buy now, price soon”)
[2008/05/31 11:44] Moon Adamant: Jamie yes
[2008/05/31 11:44] Moon Adamant: you can always fiddle with prices
[2008/05/31 11:44] You: OK
[2008/05/31 11:45] Flyingroc Chung: I think it comes out to about $5-$6 usd a month for double-prim 512 plot?
[2008/05/31 11:45] You: Motion and second 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:45] Rose Springvale: yay!
[2008/05/31 11:45] Moon Adamant: hmm, that’s promo area in which i am not very good at
[2008/05/31 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin, can you stay another 3 minutes to have a vote on this?
[2008/05/31 11:45] You: Prin, if you have to go, can you give us a take on that motion before you do?
[2008/05/31 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/05/31 11:45] You: jinx gwynnie
[2008/05/31 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/05/31 11:45] You: OK, then, sorry, have a good weekend
[2008/05/31 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, enjoy the weekend.
[2008/05/31 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: no ill stay
[2008/05/31 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: w/e
[2008/05/31 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah!
[2008/05/31 11:46] You: Any more discussion on the motion made by Gwyn?
[2008/05/31 11:46] You: (“buy now, price next week or two”)
[2008/05/31 11:46] Flyingroc Chung: The motion is that we buy the sim now, and argue over the price later?
[2008/05/31 11:46] Moon Adamant: actually
[2008/05/31 11:46] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/05/31 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR yes.
[2008/05/31 11:46] You: (is that a fair bumper sticker version?)
[2008/05/31 11:46] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/05/31 11:46] Moon Adamant: i have one thing to say
[2008/05/31 11:46] ThePrincess Parisi: whoooot
[2008/05/31 11:46] You: ok – Moon?
[2008/05/31 11:46] Moon Adamant: we still have to discuss covenants for this sim
[2008/05/31 11:46] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/05/31 11:46] Moon Adamant: while the building of the sim is quick
[2008/05/31 11:47] Flyingroc Chung: ok then I vote aye on going ahead and getting the sim.
[2008/05/31 11:47] You: wasn’t that something the Guild drafted, in the past?
[2008/05/31 11:47] Cindy Ecksol would like to speak on this motion
[2008/05/31 11:47] ThePrincess Parisi: no swingsets or flying cardinals
[2008/05/31 11:47] You: Ok Cin, after Moon finished
[2008/05/31 11:47] ThePrincess Parisi: or red chairs
[2008/05/31 11:47] Moon Adamant: the discussion of covenants can take a bit more
[2008/05/31 11:47] ThePrincess Parisi: oh .. that could take a LONG time!
[2008/05/31 11:47] Rose Springvale: only took a week for AM, but we worked hard
[2008/05/31 11:48] Moon Adamant: well, not really, because we have a lot of models now, also BAC to approve
[2008/05/31 11:48] You: and Moon’s point is, I assume, that we MUST have the covs as a precondition to opening for sale
[2008/05/31 11:48] Moon Adamant: so i would propose instead that sim buying, which is instantaneous now, would occur after covenants are approved at this RA
[2008/05/31 11:48] Moon Adamant: yes, of course
[2008/05/31 11:48] You: oh HO
[2008/05/31 11:48] You: Moon
[2008/05/31 11:49] You: you just completely changed position, or am I losing the meaning here
[2008/05/31 11:49] You: ?
[2008/05/31 11:49] Flyingroc Chung: does the guild have a draft covenant?
[2008/05/31 11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: She did 🙁
[2008/05/31 11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/05/31 11:49] Moon Adamant: no, not at all
[2008/05/31 11:49] You: well 🙂 I plan to call it for a vote anyway
[2008/05/31 11:49] Moon Adamant: we will draw heavily n AM and CN covenants – i’ll call a wg for tomorrow on that
[2008/05/31 11:49] You: Moon finishes (quickly please), then Cindy is in queue, then can we vote?
[2008/05/31 11:49] Moon Adamant: but please vote the plan and the numbers
[2008/05/31 11:50] You: umm
[2008/05/31 11:50] Cindy Ecksol: I’d like to speak first jamie
[2008/05/31 11:50] You: Moon – the “numbers” includes rent rates but not purchase prices, correct?
[2008/05/31 11:50] ThePrincess Parisi: lol… omg
[2008/05/31 11:50] Moon Adamant: while rates and covenants are thought over
[2008/05/31 11:50] You: when you say “please approve the numbers”, you mean which numbers, exactly?
[2008/05/31 11:50] Moon Adamant: no, when i say ‘numbers’ i say the list of plots and areas, also proportion between private and public prims
[2008/05/31 11:51] Moon Adamant: that’s the orange box
[2008/05/31 11:51] You: OK
[2008/05/31 11:51] You: got it
[2008/05/31 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: wb beathan
[2008/05/31 11:51] You: that seems to be really part of the same material as the map, got it
[2008/05/31 11:51] Moon Adamant: call it Sim Plan Table
[2008/05/31 11:51] Moon Adamant: yes, it expands the map
[2008/05/31 11:52] You: Gwyn, can I assume that the “land size” numnbers are a part of your “approve now” motion?
[2008/05/31 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Totally.
[2008/05/31 11:52] Moon Adamant: for reference
[2008/05/31 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you can assume that we will use the “general covenants for the CDS” 😉
[2008/05/31 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (which we DO have)
[2008/05/31 11:52] Moon Adamant: both sim plan and sim table have been posted by Ulysse at …
[2008/05/31 11:52] Moon Adamant: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1857&sid=31f4474e5d0a2c7fdff9ad1eeaf6b51f#p11300
[2008/05/31 11:52] You: OK 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:53] You: CIndy? you had a comment on the motion?
[2008/05/31 11:53] Cindy Ecksol: yes.
[2008/05/31 11:53] Cindy Ecksol: I would like to speak against the motion.
[2008/05/31 11:53] Jamie Palisades listens
[2008/05/31 11:53] Cindy Ecksol: there is plenty of information here that demonstrates that the numbers are both fiscally sound and that they are appropriate in the market
[2008/05/31 11:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/05/31 11:54] Cindy Ecksol: actually, I think we’ve seen that they are BETTER than market prices.
[2008/05/31 11:54] Cindy Ecksol: to approve the purchase of the sim yet not approve the pricing is a ticket to fiscal disaster: this body is not known for acting quickly, and that could leave CDS on the hook for a sim that no one can agree how to price
[2008/05/31 11:54] Cindy Ecksol: I’d encourage the RA to vote down this motion and introduce another one to pass both the platt and the pricing
[2008/05/31 11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
[2008/05/31 11:55] You: 🙂 I have an amendment to propose in response to Cindy’s concerns – when she is done
[2008/05/31 11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:55] You: Done Cindy?
[2008/05/31 11:55] Flyingroc Chung: The problem is, there isn’t one pricing number. Let’s get what can be done now.
[2008/05/31 11:55] Flyingroc Chung: given that we have 5 minutes left.
[2008/05/31 11:56] Flyingroc Chung: and setting pricing policy instantaneously would be not be a wise thing to do
[2008/05/31 11:56] ThePrincess Parisi: i move to wait like cindy says
[2008/05/31 11:56] You: I move we amend Gwyn’s motion to accept the financial rates in the red box and as projected & proposed by Sudane (which FR gave us pointers to, in this chat) – at the lowest of the four options presented – UNLESS the RA acts within 30 days from today to change them 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:56] Moon Adamant: you can vote the plan and sim table
[2008/05/31 11:56] You: Prin, no motion needed to do that – just vote against the main motion 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:56] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2008/05/31 11:56] ThePrincess Parisi: lets hear rose
[2008/05/31 11:56] Moon Adamant: and ask for a more detailed price rate
[2008/05/31 11:56] Cindy Ecksol raises hand again
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: And I have moved that we choose now, but give it 30 days to change before it goes ‘final’
[2008/05/31 11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Jamie’s suggestion, no objections from me
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: so let’s see if anyone seconds that –
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: thanks
[2008/05/31 11:57] Rose Springvale withdraws
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: Now Rose, then Cindy
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: No, Rose?
[2008/05/31 11:57] Moon Adamant: you will see that Sudane says also that it’s not usual that all plots have the same rate… and we have rates with sea views, etc
[2008/05/31 11:57] Rose Springvale: no, thanks
[2008/05/31 11:57] Flyingroc Chung: which of sudane’s pricing rates are we approving?
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: Lowest of the options – UNLESS we change it w/in 30 days FR
[2008/05/31 11:57] You: Cindy, then Moon please
[2008/05/31 11:58] Cindy Ecksol: I think the RA would be foolish to approve Sudane’s lowest rates — she points out that they wold result in a BARELY maintainable fiscal situation.
[2008/05/31 11:58] Moon Adamant: agree
[2008/05/31 11:58] Cindy Ecksol: approve the middle rate with the 30-day proviso….
[2008/05/31 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agree
[2008/05/31 11:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i am concerned of the look of useing sudanes pricing it makes it looks as if we are dealing with sudanes money
[2008/05/31 11:58] Flyingroc Chung: Jamie, then I object, the lowest option is fiscally unsound.
[2008/05/31 11:58] Moon Adamant: sorry guys
[2008/05/31 11:58] You: OK, how about we modify it to middle rate 🙂
[2008/05/31 11:58] ThePrincess Parisi: and the market priceing are droppoing
[2008/05/31 11:59] Flyingroc Chung: which of the middle rates?
[2008/05/31 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: and ARE we not in SL
[2008/05/31 11:59] Cindy Ecksol: it is fiscally sound and the 30-day option offers the possibility of changing if further analysis makes it prudent
[2008/05/31 11:59] Moon Adamant: i think we all agree that charging 1*multiplier is fiscally unsound, right?
[2008/05/31 11:59] Rose Springvale: have to go. bye all, good luck!
[2008/05/31 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: overall land prices in sl are dropping not going up
[2008/05/31 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: bye rose
[2008/05/31 11:59] Moon Adamant: Prin, you said just a while ago that land in the CDS sells well
[2008/05/31 11:59] Moon Adamant: so decide yourself
[2008/05/31 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: that doesnt mean that prices are not dropping moon
[2008/05/31 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: it sells well, but unlike anyone in the room i think have sold cds land lately
[2008/05/31 12:00] Moon Adamant: it means that you are comparing apples and organges
[2008/05/31 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: oh sudane sold one that i sold
[2008/05/31 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To be consistent with myself, I’d NEVER compete with *prices* but with *services*, but that is a whole new discussion…
[2008/05/31 12:00] You: ok. I move to change my amendment to refer to the middle range, which for clarity is the second highest
[2008/05/31 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: she bought and sold it for the same price .. and i sold it for her
[2008/05/31 12:00] You: that better?
[2008/05/31 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: Rate = 4.266/month ( a 512 parcel costs 2184 and a 1024 parcel costs 4368 ) ?
[2008/05/31 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (2x multiplier)
[2008/05/31 12:00] Moon Adamant: even yesterday i had to go fix a door for a new resident in NFS….
[2008/05/31 12:01] You: I assume so, but for official purposes, the second highest of the stated alternatives
[2008/05/31 12:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[2008/05/31 12:01] ThePrincess Parisi: did you sell the land moon
[2008/05/31 12:01] You: you seconding that?
[2008/05/31 12:01] You: heh
[2008/05/31 12:01] Flyingroc Chung: can we vote on going ahead with the plan, and pricing later? I can’t vote aye on the rate, sorry.
[2008/05/31 12:01] You: ok let’s bring it to a vote & vote no on the rate then 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i cannot vote on anything that isn’t complete
[2008/05/31 12:01] Moon Adamant: no, i just set the door, but he was a new resident
[2008/05/31 12:01] You: but
[2008/05/31 12:01] ThePrincess Parisi: i will abstain
[2008/05/31 12:01] You: My amendment to amendment dies for lack of second 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:01] ThePrincess Parisi: yes but you dont know how much the land is selling for
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: so
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: we are back to my amendment (G seconded) to use lowest of four rates in 30 says
[2008/05/31 12:02] Sonja Strom: second Jamie
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: and
[2008/05/31 12:02] Moon Adamant: Prin, not my concern – RA’s
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: cindy spoke against it
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: so
[2008/05/31 12:02] ThePrincess Parisi: we need it all clear………and strangely i agree with cindy on that
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: let’s vote on it (a yes vote sets rate, a no vote omits rates for now). I vote no.
[2008/05/31 12:02] Beathan Vale: no
[2008/05/31 12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well hmm
[2008/05/31 12:02] You: members plase state your votes on the amendment
[2008/05/31 12:02] MT Lundquist: nay
[2008/05/31 12:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote nay, I want the 2nd highest rates lol
[2008/05/31 12:03] ThePrincess Parisi: abstain
[2008/05/31 12:03] MT Lundquist: i mean yes
[2008/05/31 12:03] You: (shoulda seconded me then 🙂 )
[2008/05/31 12:03] MT Lundquist: sorry misunderstood
[2008/05/31 12:03] Flyingroc Chung: I vote nay, I want a rate closer to 3.25$/sq/month
[2008/05/31 12:03] ThePrincess Parisi: does that mean buy the sim and not know the rates
[2008/05/31 12:03] You: I have 5 no, 1 yes, 1 abstain
[2008/05/31 12:03] You: amendment fails 1-5-1
[2008/05/31 12:03] Moon Adamant: so Mr LRA
[2008/05/31 12:03] You: back to unamended main motion
[2008/05/31 12:03] You: which is
[2008/05/31 12:03] Moon Adamant listens
[2008/05/31 12:04] You: To approve land map and land numbers
[2008/05/31 12:04] You: 🙂 any more talkytalk on this way over time item?
[2008/05/31 12:04] Moon Adamant: no no
[2008/05/31 12:04] Moon Adamant: carry on
[2008/05/31 12:04] Cindy Ecksol sighs
[2008/05/31 12:04] ThePrincess Parisi: so we are buying a sim with no done financials
[2008/05/31 12:04] You: Ready for a vote y’all? Comfortable with knowing what we are asked to approve?
[2008/05/31 12:04] ThePrincess Parisi: is that what you just did?
[2008/05/31 12:05] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry i am confused
[2008/05/31 12:05] MT Lundquist: i’m not yet clear
[2008/05/31 12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/05/31 12:05] Moon Adamant: the motion is just to approve Land map and land table
[2008/05/31 12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, just that for now.
[2008/05/31 12:05] You: I think Cindy would agree with you, Prin (smile), but to my eye, we DO have a set of proof-of concept-financials – we just are not finalizing them yet
[2008/05/31 12:05] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/05/31 12:05] ThePrincess Parisi: but NOT purchase
[2008/05/31 12:05] You: um .. ?
[2008/05/31 12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll add a new motion after that one… 😉 but let’s vote on “just the map and table”
[2008/05/31 12:05] Flyingroc Chung: We are about to vote on: “Let’s approve the plan and the number of aprcels, and talk about reasonable pricing next time”
[2008/05/31 12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait wait
[2008/05/31 12:05] MT Lundquist: does this approve purchase
[2008/05/31 12:06] MT Lundquist: or not?
[2008/05/31 12:06] Moon Adamant: no, MT
[2008/05/31 12:06] Cindy Ecksol thinks that motion originally included the purchase
[2008/05/31 12:06] ThePrincess Parisi: but that means we BUY it and dont know what it will be sold for?T
[2008/05/31 12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s have “map & parcels first ”
[2008/05/31 12:06] Jamie Palisades agrees with FR, and NO Linden purchase authorization in this motion
[2008/05/31 12:06] Moon Adamant: just the drawing and the table
[2008/05/31 12:06] You: OK
[2008/05/31 12:06] You: ready to vote?
[2008/05/31 12:06] ThePrincess Parisi: i will vote aye for maps but not to purchase
[2008/05/31 12:06] You: then you can vote yes on this one safely 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:06] You: Members please state your vote. I vote aye.
[2008/05/31 12:06] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/05/31 12:06] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/05/31 12:06] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/05/31 12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2008/05/31 12:07] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/05/31 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: BROMO
[2008/05/31 12:07] MT Lundquist: hi bromo
[2008/05/31 12:07] Moon Adamant: hi Bromo
[2008/05/31 12:07] Bromo Ivory waves
[2008/05/31 12:07] You: Prin abstains? OK Approved 6-0-1 and thank you to the Guild (and Ulysse, Symo & Moon) for the work.
[2008/05/31 12:07] You: now
[2008/05/31 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/05/31 12:07] Moon Adamant: thank you
[2008/05/31 12:07] Justice Soothsayer: bye all
[2008/05/31 12:07] You: 7-0-0 then 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: i didnt abstain on this one
[2008/05/31 12:08] You: Got it thx Prin
[2008/05/31 12:08] You: hm
[2008/05/31 12:08] Moon Adamant: we will try to refine the rates, and hopefully bring you covenants asap
[2008/05/31 12:08] You: we are over time
[2008/05/31 12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to add a second motion, because I fear that we’ll discuss pricing endlessly, and I’d prefer to “test the RA” with a proposal.
[2008/05/31 12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if we’re over time…
[2008/05/31 12:08] You: Moon, shoudl we look to Guild as the source of a rates recommendation?
[2008/05/31 12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/05/31 12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm no, the rates are set by the Treasurer
[2008/05/31 12:08] Beathan Vale: election committee meeting to follow — last before I draft a proposal, I think
[2008/05/31 12:08] You: way over – but let me ask, what else memebrs wish to take up for today.
[2008/05/31 12:08] Moon Adamant: well, the Guild member who has proposed the rates is also the treasurer with another hat
[2008/05/31 12:08] Cindy Ecksol thinking what is wrong with the recommendation the guild already presented???
[2008/05/31 12:08] Beathan Vale: although we will meet to discuss the proposal
[2008/05/31 12:09] Flyingroc Chung: The recommendation was ambigous, cindy
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: Ahem, grin
[2008/05/31 12:09] Moon Adamant: mind two points
[2008/05/31 12:09] Flyingroc Chung: there were 4 rates, and we dont agree on which one is the best way to go
[2008/05/31 12:09] Cindy Ecksol sighs
[2008/05/31 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I propose that we *vote* on it.
[2008/05/31 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In fact, Mr LRA, if we have time…
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: do we wish to take up agenda items 2 or 5 or 6 or 8, or adjourn?
[2008/05/31 12:09] Moon Adamant: one: there has been talk to establish similar rates acrross teh sims – tehse rates reflect that
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: psst
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: ..
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: ..
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: ..
[2008/05/31 12:09] You: multiple threads here
[2008/05/31 12:10] You: 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose a motion, voting on the 2nd highest rate NOW (4.266/month ( a 512 parcel costs 2184 and a 1024 parcel costs 4368 )), 2x prims
[2008/05/31 12:10] You: Moon, please wait
[2008/05/31 12:10] You: Moon
[2008/05/31 12:10] Moon Adamant: plus, a sim can have different rates according to zones – seashore plots can be costlier
[2008/05/31 12:10] You: Gwyn is making a motion 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:10] Moon Adamant: sorry Gwyn
[2008/05/31 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe. Sorry Moon
[2008/05/31 12:10] You: Let’s keep this going, and see. I second it.
[2008/05/31 12:10] You: Disussion?
[2008/05/31 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I wasn’t finished,
[2008/05/31 12:10] Jamie Palisades listens
[2008/05/31 12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the motion also encompasses two further things:
[2008/05/31 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) That if the rate is approved, the sim is purchased immediately
[2008/05/31 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) That the covenants ruling the 4th sim uses the General CDS Covenant
[2008/05/31 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we can spend the rest of the month discussing any changes… but at least we’d have a sim *now*
[2008/05/31 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it. Thanks.
[2008/05/31 12:11] You: hm
[2008/05/31 12:11] You: your #1 seems conditional
[2008/05/31 12:12] Moon Adamant: *sighs*
[2008/05/31 12:12] You: you are actually simply saying we DO purchase now, if your motion passes, right?
[2008/05/31 12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2008/05/31 12:12] You: fine. I renew my second.
[2008/05/31 12:12] You: Discussion?
[2008/05/31 12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry for the bad wording. Yes, the motion is to 1) approve a rate; 2) purchase sim; 3) use general covenants
[2008/05/31 12:12] Flyingroc Chung: second highest rate is too expensive
[2008/05/31 12:12] Moon Adamant raises hand
[2008/05/31 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: and the lowest wont make money
[2008/05/31 12:13] Cindy Ecksol: second highest rate is less than single prim mainlaind with a premium account!
[2008/05/31 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: no it isnt cindy
[2008/05/31 12:13] You: 🙂 In your opinion FR
[2008/05/31 12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Cindy 🙂 Yes, indeed it is.
[2008/05/31 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: are you kidding
[2008/05/31 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: it is NOT
[2008/05/31 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: the cost of the land is NOT
[2008/05/31 12:13] ThePrincess Parisi: its five times mainland
[2008/05/31 12:13] You: we are discussing the motion, heh – OK so you two disagree. Let’s leave it there
[2008/05/31 12:13] Moon Adamant still has hand in the air
[2008/05/31 12:13] Cindy Ecksol: premium account is $10US per month. $2166L is less than that
[2008/05/31 12:13] You: I would find it helpful if people would say they support, or oppose, the motion, or ask questions :D[2008/05/31 12:13] Flyingroc Chung: In my opinion, jamie. If I had to pay that price a few years ago, I would never have joined the cds
[2008/05/31 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear flying rock
[2008/05/31 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: but the cost to buy it is higher cindy
[2008/05/31 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: a LOT higher
[2008/05/31 12:14] You: Thank FR that’s pertinent – can you finish, then Moon, then others, please
[2008/05/31 12:14] Cindy Ecksol: this motion does not set the cost to “buy”
[2008/05/31 12:14] Cindy Ecksol: just the montly tier
[2008/05/31 12:14] Jamie Palisades thinks that’s correct
[2008/05/31 12:14] ThePrincess Parisi: but the monthly tier isn’t the only thing, and its relative to that
[2008/05/31 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, because I can’t find the cost to buy….
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: you cannot look at them separately
[2008/05/31 12:15] You: 🙂 I think that FR and Prin have spoken against the motion
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: when you buy a house, do you only look at the monthly and not the downpayment
[2008/05/31 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m fine in having an amendment setting the cost to buy too 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: come on .. they have to be looked at togehr
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: we MUST have them in one poacle
[2008/05/31 12:15] Cindy Ecksol: yes, you CAN (and should!) look at them separately. as Sudane points out, the tier is the most important — buying cost is not a big deal
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOOOOO
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: no one buys land and only pays one
[2008/05/31 12:15] Cindy Ecksol: we have the cash to buy…what we need is CASH FLOW (tier)
[2008/05/31 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, let’s propose a cost to buy then.
[2008/05/31 12:15] ThePrincess Parisi: if the cost to buy is too high, the tier is irrelevant
[2008/05/31 12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Princess, what would you suggest as a cost to buy?
[2008/05/31 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: no one will pay tier if they cant buy the darn land
[2008/05/31 12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *buy sorry
[2008/05/31 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: well i think it should be set with the proposal
[2008/05/31 12:16] You: Myself I have to agree with Prin 🙂 buying cost seems like a bigger deal to some kinds of prospective citizens — perhaps less to the big-holdings landed gentry of CDS 😀 — but this is just my personal opinion
[2008/05/31 12:16] ThePrincess Parisi: im not the land expert it seems
[2008/05/31 12:16] Cindy Ecksol: purchase price can be set between now and availability. tier needs to be agreed on now
[2008/05/31 12:16] Cindy Ecksol: you are not the financial expert
[2008/05/31 12:17] You: though I am OK with setting it later, I’m pretty sure that the price of purchase is important
[2008/05/31 12:17] ThePrincess Parisi: i disagree that they can be looked at separately
[2008/05/31 12:17] You: ok 🙂 does anyone ELSE have new comments?
[2008/05/31 12:17] Moon Adamant: me?
[2008/05/31 12:17] You: Please 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suggest L$5k per 512 plot as cost to buy.
[2008/05/31 12:17] You: Moon has the floor, hm?
[2008/05/31 12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry.
[2008/05/31 12:17] Moon Adamant: ok, The NG has a series of projects related to new sim
[2008/05/31 12:18] Moon Adamant: such as quality in building, packs of textures, etc
[2008/05/31 12:18] Moon Adamant: it’s just possible that some of these project won’t be complete when new owners enter the sin
[2008/05/31 12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn reminds the assembly that NFS is not even completed (Altenstadt is missing!) and that never prevented us to sell plots in NFS since 2006
[2008/05/31 12:19] Beathan Vale: Uh oh — something has come up — and I need to run
[2008/05/31 12:19] Sonja Strom: ok Beathan – later!
[2008/05/31 12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you later, Beathan!
[2008/05/31 12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or tomorrow…
[2008/05/31 12:20] Moon Adamant: see you Beathan! 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:20] Beathan Vale: I recommend that anyone interested in the election committee post on and respond to this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1858
[2008/05/31 12:20] MT Lundquist: bye beathan
[2008/05/31 12:20] Beathan Vale: and feel free to pan and criticize Pat’s proposal — lol 😉
[2008/05/31 12:20] Beathan Vale: bye all
[2008/05/31 12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LRA, can I make a suggestion on the cost price?
[2008/05/31 12:20] ThePrincess Parisi: lol bye bv
[2008/05/31 12:20] Flyingroc Chung: I’d like to say something about setting tier when everyone’s done.
[2008/05/31 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie?
[2008/05/31 12:21] You: mm hmm
[2008/05/31 12:21] You: so
[2008/05/31 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who’s next? 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:21] ThePrincess Parisi: im tired
[2008/05/31 12:21] You: hm Gwyn then FR I think
[2008/05/31 12:21] ThePrincess Parisi: this is hard
[2008/05/31 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good.
[2008/05/31 12:21] You: (it sure is Prin)
[2008/05/31 12:21] ThePrincess Parisi: im going
[2008/05/31 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… bear with me for 5 minutes
[2008/05/31 12:21] ThePrincess Parisi: bye
[2008/05/31 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😛
[2008/05/31 12:22] Jamie Palisades waves – thanks for sticking with us
[2008/05/31 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if MT goes too,
[2008/05/31 12:22] ThePrincess Parisi: yall take care
[2008/05/31 12:22] ThePrincess Parisi: hes going
[2008/05/31 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s pointless to waste my breath
[2008/05/31 12:22] MT Lundquist: i am sorry
[2008/05/31 12:22] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/05/31 12:22] You: It’s late for MT
[2008/05/31 12:22] MT Lundquist: it was already a late one
[2008/05/31 12:22] You: And we are 22 minutes over
[2008/05/31 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas, I was just trying to get us a 4th sim this year.
[2008/05/31 12:22] You: Gwyn, we’re on record, my suggestion is that you make your point 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s simple
[2008/05/31 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the island costs US$1000
[2008/05/31 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or about L$270000
[2008/05/31 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 13877 prims are available
[2008/05/31 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, cost per prim is 19.45
[2008/05/31 12:23] Flyingroc Chung: per prim?
[2008/05/31 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 512 m2 plots at 2x have 234 prims
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes)
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so,
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the cost of the 512 m2 is L$4551.30
[2008/05/31 12:24] Moon Adamant: easier to think in prims than in areas if you’re using multipliers, FR
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Moon’s right)
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I suggest a bit of margin over that
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 10% should be ok, since the L$ doesn’t fluctuate wildly
[2008/05/31 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and set the cost of a 512 m2 plot as reference on L$ 5k
[2008/05/31 12:24] You: Gwyn we view that as our “average breakeven price”, then, hm?
[2008/05/31 12:25] You: (assuming the approved prim count for this sim, of course, which affects it)
[2008/05/31 12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I couldn’t find the proposed cost of plots
[2008/05/31 12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Jamie, to an extent)
[2008/05/31 12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[2008/05/31 12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I was suggesting it as an amendment to the motion
[2008/05/31 12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: add as a reference the cost of L$5000 per 512 m2 plot
[2008/05/31 12:26] Moon Adamant: and L$10 k for the 1024?
[2008/05/31 12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all, now we can hear FR’s objections on tier 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Moon)
[2008/05/31 12:26] Flyingroc Chung: ok, two things, first is that we seem to be conflating the one-time cost of buying the sim
[2008/05/31 12:26] Flyingroc Chung: to the ongoing cost of paying for its monthly upkeep
[2008/05/31 12:27] Flyingroc Chung: *and* the one-time(ish) revenue of purchasing a plot, and the ongoing revenue of tier
[2008/05/31 12:27] Flyingroc Chung: What I’m looking at, sudane’s 2nd highest tier rate,
[2008/05/31 12:28] Flyingroc Chung: revenue is over 30% the monthly cost of the server
[2008/05/31 12:28] Flyingroc Chung: and jaime’s gone, lol
[2008/05/31 12:29] Moon Adamant: do you think that’s automatic adjournement?
[2008/05/31 12:29] Flyingroc Chung: but still, unless we know what to do with the extra revenue, I don’t think we should tax the people that much higher than what we are spending on it.
[2008/05/31 12:29] Moon Adamant: and i hope he has saved the transcripts
[2008/05/31 12:29] Moon Adamant: Gwyn, better save them
[2008/05/31 12:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we’re also aiming for 70% or so occupation
[2008/05/31 12:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes hehe)
[2008/05/31 12:30] Flyingroc Chung: Well, I would suggest something more concrete then. Right now, I dont know if the numbers make actual sense
[2008/05/31 12:30] Moon Adamant: we’ll see what we can do
[2008/05/31 12:30] Flyingroc Chung: by numbers, I mean the prices 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:30] Moon Adamant: but busy month for the guild…
[2008/05/31 12:31] Cindy Ecksol: FR, the “purchase price” is kind of irrelevant as long as the tier is set properly.
[2008/05/31 12:31] Moon Adamant: nad he’s back!
[2008/05/31 12:31] Flyingroc Chung: Cindy, purchase price needs to offset the cost of buying the server
[2008/05/31 12:31] You: Sorry, utterly unexpected crash
[2008/05/31 12:31] Sonja Strom: really? in SL?
[2008/05/31 12:31] Sonja Strom: 😉
[2008/05/31 12:31] You: heh
[2008/05/31 12:31] Cindy Ecksol: that’s why the tier SHOULD be 30% or more above what we have to pay to Linden — eventually that overage will account for any shortfall in selling the property and also cover “underoccupancy”
[2008/05/31 12:31] Moon Adamant: lol
[2008/05/31 12:32] You: so
[2008/05/31 12:32] Moon Adamant: my dear people
[2008/05/31 12:32] You: Gwyn, I missed about 3 minutes of chat there
[2008/05/31 12:32] Flyingroc Chung: otherwise, we’ll ahve to set the tier price higher to amortize the cost of buying the server
[2008/05/31 12:32] Cindy Ecksol: yes….that’s WHY we set the tier a bit higher than we have to….
[2008/05/31 12:32] Moon Adamant: before my mother commits daughter murder
[2008/05/31 12:32] You: was a motion eventually made? If so I have missed it
[2008/05/31 12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:32] Cindy Ecksol: as Prin pointed out, the land has to SELL at a “market rate”
[2008/05/31 12:33] You: 🙂 to be continued next week, then?
[2008/05/31 12:33] Flyingroc Chung: well then by how much is it reaonable to set it higher? We dont know if we don’t know what the purchase price of a parcel is
[2008/05/31 12:33] You: If we are done, as I suspect is the case, I waill ask to make a brief announcement
[2008/05/31 12:33] Flyingroc Chung: also, when the cost of the server is paid off, do we automatically reduce the tier cost?
[2008/05/31 12:33] Cindy Ecksol: no, we don’t — we use it finance th enext sim….
[2008/05/31 12:33] You: Roc? an end to it for now? Sorry
[2008/05/31 12:33] Moon Adamant: so, good bye everyone
[2008/05/31 12:34] You: Thanks again Moon
[2008/05/31 12:34] Sonja Strom: bye Moon
[2008/05/31 12:34] Flyingroc Chung: sure
[2008/05/31 12:34] Cindy Ecksol: 🙂 ok, pax!
—-
[2008/05/31 12:34] Moon Adamant: Jamie, thanks for chairing, and thanks to everyone 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:34] You: and my announcement is simply to remind people to donate to Rose’s auction
[2008/05/31 12:34] You: on – um – the 6th I think
[2008/05/31 12:34] You: and attend!
[2008/05/31 12:34] You: 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:34] Moon Adamant: 8th
[2008/05/31 12:34] Moon Adamant: bye! 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:34] You: and hm – next week: Chancellor – and MAYBE more sim 4 motions? – and other items
[2008/05/31 12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I hope to get a gew…
[2008/05/31 12:35] You: Are we ok to adjourn? WE are quorate, after all
[2008/05/31 12:35] Flyingroc Chung: I’d suggest putting this high up in the agenda
[2008/05/31 12:35] You: This being sim4?
[2008/05/31 12:35] Flyingroc Chung: and let’s adjourn
[2008/05/31 12:35] Flyingroc Chung: I’m hungry
[2008/05/31 12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:35] You: heh
[2008/05/31 12:35] You: So Gwyn
[2008/05/31 12:35] Sonja Strom: lol FR
[2008/05/31 12:35] You: 🙂 have your cabaret pictures ready for auction donation yet?
[2008/05/31 12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
[2008/05/31 12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think I have any 😉
[2008/05/31 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[2008/05/31 12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m lying, I do!!!
[2008/05/31 12:36] You: hey, what price WOULDN’T they fetch? 🙂
[2008/05/31 12:36] Flyingroc Chung: I think I do too
[2008/05/31 12:36] Flyingroc Chung: gwyn’s cabaret pictures, I mean
[2008/05/31 12:37] You: I will just leave it at “I’m speechless”
[2008/05/31 12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/05/31 12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good old times!!
[2008/05/31 12:37] Cindy Ecksol: wow!
[2008/05/31 12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon did the hats 😉
[2008/05/31 12:38] Flyingroc Chung: oh man
[2008/05/31 12:39] You: We’re adjourned
—-
[2008/05/31 12:39] Flyingroc Chung: a time before scultpies
[2008/05/31 12:39] You: … and in shock, but still, adjourned
RA Meeting: June 07, 2008
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & plans.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
[None expected]
— Proposed covenants
— Proposed pricing
— Sim name
3. Commerce Commission recommendations (10 mins.: 10h00 – 10h10)
— Drafts expected, carried over from last week, see transcript
5. Other?
6. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h45-11h00)
Adjournment: 12h00
Transcript of 07 June 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Neufreistadt Rathaus
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====
[2008/06/07 8:57] You: Good morning Danton. How are you?
[2008/06/07 8:57] Danton Sideways: Hi Jamie
[2008/06/07 8:58] Danton Sideways: Alright and you?
[2008/06/07 8:58] Danton Sideways: Hi Pat
[2008/06/07 8:58] Patroklus Murakami: hi 🙂
[2008/06/07 8:58] You: Good, thanks. Hi Pat. Retreating into IM for a moment 🙂 ‘scuse me
[2008/06/07 9:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi all!
[2008/06/07 9:01] MT Lundquist: hi all
[2008/06/07 9:01] Patroklus Murakami: hi gwyn mt 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:01] Danton Sideways: Hi MT, hi Gwyn
[2008/06/07 9:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *Waves*
[2008/06/07 9:01] MT Lundquist: hi gywn
[2008/06/07 9:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hiii MT
[2008/06/07 9:02] You: Good morning. I just sent off the obvious IMs and TP invites.
[2008/06/07 9:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I know — I should have been in touch with you, MT 🙁 Sorry about that
[2008/06/07 9:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good morning, Jamie 😉
[2008/06/07 9:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wakie-wakie call? 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:02] You: quite a few actually
[2008/06/07 9:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drag those lazy RA members into the meeting 😀
[2008/06/07 9:03] You: Now let’s see. Did we get any official regrets for today?
[2008/06/07 9:04] You: No, no, Gwyn, wiser heads have told me that all RA memebers are just the instruments of their factions 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
[2008/06/07 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn is just a ‘bot of the CSDF
[2008/06/07 9:04] You: so If they dont show up presumably we talk to their estemeed faction leaders eh?
[2008/06/07 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh btw… I’m afraid I won’t be able to make it next Saturday at this time 🙁 At 8 AM I’ll be doing a book signing event iRL *sighs*
[2008/06/07 9:04] Patroklus Murakami: book signing? ooh! do tell
[2008/06/07 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You should, Mr LRA
[2008/06/07 9:04] MT Lundquist: whats the book gwyn
[2008/06/07 9:05] You: hmmm a Gwynbot .. how … disturbing 🙂 yeah, what’s the book?
[2008/06/07 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, pfft, I don’t even want to discuss that lol
[2008/06/07 9:05] You: 1001 uses for smoking animations?
[2008/06/07 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m just one of several co-authors… the organiser of the anthology is a personal friend who *insisted* that I contributed to it
[2008/06/07 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Jamie
[2008/06/07 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now, *that* would be something I’d much prefer to do!
[2008/06/07 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/06/07 9:06] Jamie Palisades smiles and notes we are not yet quorate.
[2008/06/07 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles back and patiently waits
[2008/06/07 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn tries to get some citizens here too…
[2008/06/07 9:07] Moon Adamant: hello everyone 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Moonie 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:07] MT Lundquist: hi moon
[2008/06/07 9:07] You: I’m not yet ready to panic if we miss one or two – so far since I joined and have been watching, RA members have been pretty good about quorum and attending.
[2008/06/07 9:07] You: Good day Madame Guild Secretary 😀
[2008/06/07 9:07] Danton Sideways: Hi Moon
[2008/06/07 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/06/07 9:08] You: You longtimers maybe can tell me – has CDS RA had many (SC-like, heh heh) dryspells where there are persistent quorum problems?
[2008/06/07 9:09] Patroklus Murakami: yes :0
[2008/06/07 9:09] Patroklus Murakami: almost every term
[2008/06/07 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes.
[2008/06/07 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What would a CDS institution be without a quorum problem? 😀
[2008/06/07 9:09] Patroklus Murakami: it’s been better recently, but I remember when most RA meetings were inquorate after about the third month
[2008/06/07 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Pat
[2008/06/07 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ve been quite lucky so far!
[2008/06/07 9:10] Patroklus Murakami: ppl losing interest is the usual problem
[2008/06/07 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or, well, not having time
[2008/06/07 9:10] You: have weekly (versus biweekly) meetings been the usual? I myself see a little fatigue setting in with this lot
[2008/06/07 9:10] Patroklus Murakami: the last two or three RAs have been unusual in meeting most weeks
[2008/06/07 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: December meetings, for instance, are usually very very hard
[2008/06/07 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, yes, weekly is best
[2008/06/07 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would even like more per week…. hehe
[2008/06/07 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or we won’t ever get anything done!…
[2008/06/07 9:10] Patroklus Murakami: well, fortnightly meetings used to be the norm, but they tend to fall into inquoracy more quickly
[2008/06/07 9:11] You: ah
[2008/06/07 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pat, you’re also quite right on that
[2008/06/07 9:11] Patroklus Murakami: weekly is better for keeping everyone on board
[2008/06/07 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “is this the day we meet, or next week? oops”
[2008/06/07 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s what usually happens
[2008/06/07 9:11] You: more meetings = more shots at making quorum, so to speak?
[2008/06/07 9:11] You: 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/06/07 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, a trade-off, Jamie
[2008/06/07 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: once per week is ok for most people
[2008/06/07 9:11] Patroklus Murakami: it just becomes the rhythm so is easier to maintain
[2008/06/07 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, so we can plan ahead
[2008/06/07 9:12] You: I have FlyingRoc, Sonja, ThePrincess and Beathan as still offline
[2008/06/07 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: awee Jamie
[2008/06/07 9:12] Patroklus Murakami: gwyn’s point is a good one, ppl become confused easily if meetings are fortnightly
[2008/06/07 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if they think we’re meeting today at 10 AM, like last weekend?…
[2008/06/07 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, *I* get confused all the time — lol
[2008/06/07 9:12] Moon Adamant: yup, that’s why i hold the Guild meetings weekly
[2008/06/07 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn is just a silly blonde iRL
[2008/06/07 9:13] Moon Adamant: but try and IM them? if they’re by their machines, they’ll see the IMs arriving on their mail
[2008/06/07 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Moon, Jamie’s been actively IMing everybody
[2008/06/07 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I love your robes, Jamie, btw :))
[2008/06/07 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should have a dress code for the RA meetings hehe
[2008/06/07 9:14] MT Lundquist: how many do we need for quorum
[2008/06/07 9:14] You: ah, well, 🙂 Victorian sim party, thanks
[2008/06/07 9:14] You: four of seven
[2008/06/07 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 😀
[2008/06/07 9:14] You: I see Prin’s online
[2008/06/07 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Great!!!
[2008/06/07 9:15] MT Lundquist: she keeps losing internet
[2008/06/07 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack MT
[2008/06/07 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s too bad 🙁
[2008/06/07 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is SL one another bad day today?….
[2008/06/07 9:15] MT Lundquist: its her internet
[2008/06/07 9:15] MT Lundquist: it goes frequently
[2008/06/07 9:15] MT Lundquist: very annoying
[2008/06/07 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… argh
[2008/06/07 9:16] MT Lundquist: its funny, skype usually goes first then she crashes sl
[2008/06/07 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s VERY annoying :(((
[2008/06/07 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: SL is actually quite good at tolerating disconnections
[2008/06/07 9:16] You: that IS odd
[2008/06/07 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You can pull the cord out of your computer for half a minute or so, and SL won’t crash… often it recovers!
[2008/06/07 9:17] You: Skype does seem to have a heavy – and *spiking* – proicessor load
[2008/06/07 9:17] You: true
[2008/06/07 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And SL doesn’t???? heheheheheh
[2008/06/07 9:17] You: but you know Skype is one of those distributed processor deals like SETI
[2008/06/07 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It is? Hmm
[2008/06/07 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn uses Skype so little
[2008/06/07 9:17] You: so you can be, intermittently, a node .. amd get a LOT of throughput – whether or not you are yourself in a heavy session
[2008/06/07 9:18] MT Lundquist: prin says she is having problems logging in
[2008/06/07 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now is Skype also used to discover intelligent lifeforms on Earth? 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, couldn’t resist
[2008/06/07 9:18] You: me too, used to keep it on for presence, but now I use GTalk instead (Jabber compliant! Yay standards!)
[2008/06/07 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Jamie 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:18] MT Lundquist: she also says she doesnt have the money from Alex yet
[2008/06/07 9:18] You: and SKype client only comes on for cheap VoIP
[2008/06/07 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn had fun yesterday connecting SL to GTalk
[2008/06/07 9:18] You: well 🙂 Alexi committed to join us here also
[2008/06/07 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, wasn’t this the Day of the Chancellor?…
[2008/06/07 9:19] Jamie Palisades makes an odd facial gesture indicating slight doubt
[2008/06/07 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/06/07 9:19] You: Another phenom on our list of CDS issues
[2008/06/07 9:19] MT Lundquist: has justice got his new faction up and running yet
[2008/06/07 9:19] You: connection, how, Gwyn?
[2008/06/07 9:19] Moon Adamant: Justice?
[2008/06/07 9:20] You: (and MT, remind me to talk to you or her directly about the L$$$)
[2008/06/07 9:20] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/06/07 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, just having fun… you chat in SL, and it gets funneled to someone in GTalk, who can answer back
[2008/06/07 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll do a GTalk HUD some day 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:20] MT Lundquist: is that text or voice
[2008/06/07 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, text only
[2008/06/07 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although GTalk fully supports voice these days
[2008/06/07 9:21] You: ah. huh. Well my av has a GMail address, thus GTalk ID, so if the Gmail addr is my IM redirect, it all seems to flow fairly well
[2008/06/07 9:21] MT Lundquist: ok interesting
[2008/06/07 9:21] MT Lundquist: how do you set it up?
[2008/06/07 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no idea, lol — it doesn’t work well on my Mac!
[2008/06/07 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean GTalk with voice
[2008/06/07 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think you have to download a small application from Google…
[2008/06/07 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/06/07 9:22] You: yup
[2008/06/07 9:22] You: it does both a web based ssesion, and a sep client – which is nicely compact
[2008/06/07 9:22] MT Lundquist: right i’ll look later
[2008/06/07 9:23] MT Lundquist: how long do we wait?
[2008/06/07 9:23] You: well, let’s see 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:23] You: Do we know if Prin can join us? She’d make quorum
[2008/06/07 9:23] Moon Adamant: you should have a procedure
[2008/06/07 9:23] You: I do, dear
[2008/06/07 9:23] You: public revilement 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:24] Moon Adamant: like in the portuguese framework code for associations
[2008/06/07 9:24] You: but only with reasonable forbearance
[2008/06/07 9:24] Moon Adamant: that after 30 minutes, session is open with those present
[2008/06/07 9:24] You: huh = interesting, but that would not be very respectful of faction representation?
[2008/06/07 9:25] Moon Adamant: it’s they who have clocks
[2008/06/07 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… hehe
[2008/06/07 9:25] You: my preference would be an automnatic replacement of people who miss a few in a row without giving regrets or etc.
[2008/06/07 9:25] MT Lundquist: prin says she will come in if gwyn will tell us the name of her book
[2008/06/07 9:25] MT Lundquist: shes sick actually
[2008/06/07 9:25] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/06/07 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/06/07 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tell her it’s in Portuguese anyway, and I’m just one of 13 co-authors…
[2008/06/07 9:26] Moon Adamant: haven’t read it yet Gwyn, sorry .(
[2008/06/07 9:26] MT Lundquist: whats the topic
[2008/06/07 9:27] Moon Adamant: alternative history
[2008/06/07 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes hehe
[2008/06/07 9:27] Danton Sideways: Isn’t that a branch of cyberpunk, like steampunk about how the 18th century COULD have been?
[2008/06/07 9:28] You: haha
[2008/06/07 9:28] Moon Adamant: yes, in a way steampunk is alternative history
[2008/06/07 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sort of something like that
[2008/06/07 9:28] Moon Adamant: but generally AH picks a single moment in the past
[2008/06/07 9:28] MT Lundquist: her other alternative is to come in if we all do naked RA lol
[2008/06/07 9:28] Moon Adamant: and rewrites history from that moment
[2008/06/07 9:28] You: At 930 I will suggest we declare ourselves unable to meet and try again next week, colleagues
[2008/06/07 9:28] MT Lundquist: i’m just relaying messages
[2008/06/07 9:28] MT Lundquist: dont shoot me
[2008/06/07 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL MT 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:29] Moon Adamant: you have a very good book of alternative history about american secession war
[2008/06/07 9:29] Moon Adamant: called Pavane
[2008/06/07 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I second Jamie
[2008/06/07 9:29] You: well THAT really ought to be in CN, no?
[2008/06/07 9:29] Moon Adamant: called “Pavane”
[2008/06/07 9:29] Moon Adamant: i can’t remember the author, sorry
[2008/06/07 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could use the Thermae for that 😉
[2008/06/07 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh Moon…
[2008/06/07 9:29] You: I guess the book “ssgb” would fall in that class
[2008/06/07 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[2008/06/07 9:30] MT Lundquist: if i could come to RA and see you lovely people i would but i have a headache and i really dont feel like it ok ??
[2008/06/07 9:30] MT Lundquist: from prin
[2008/06/07 9:30] You: I dunno Gwyn, didn’t someone ban hot tubs, evil grin?
[2008/06/07 9:30] MT Lundquist: my name is theprincess it comes from the book theprincess and the pea [17:30:13] pennyp says: i am very sensitive
[2008/06/07 9:30] You: is there an, um, community thermae somewhwre too?
[2008/06/07 9:30] MT Lundquist: so please stop wishing
[2008/06/07 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Thermae is an ‘approved’ hot-tubby building
[2008/06/07 9:30] You: what I don’t know about CN would fill volumes
[2008/06/07 9:30] MT Lundquist: i am on a little break
[2008/06/07 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and MT, my best wishes of a full recovery to Prin, I hope she gets rid of her headache soon
[2008/06/07 9:31] MT Lundquist: this is cut and paste
[2008/06/07 9:31] Moon Adamant: yes, best recovery
[2008/06/07 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose is also doing another attempt to join us…
[2008/06/07 9:32] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/06/07 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT hmm
[2008/06/07 9:32] You: Poor J[censored] and B[censored], they were so hoping CN was going to be Colonia Orgy-a
[2008/06/07 9:32] Moon Adamant: do you think they may have been confused by last saturday the RA was an hour later?
[2008/06/07 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the RA meeting is over,
[2008/06/07 9:32] You: ahem, smile
[2008/06/07 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry!
[2008/06/07 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn looks at the time
[2008/06/07 9:33] You: It’s 09h30. May I declare thi a failed meeting and release our colleagues if they wis?
[2008/06/07 9:33] Moon Adamant makes a sad face
[2008/06/07 9:33] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/06/07 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was just going to suggest that we review the pending things for the Commission With The Long Name
[2008/06/07 9:33] MT Lundquist: so no naked RA then
[2008/06/07 9:33] Patroklus Murakami: 🙁
[2008/06/07 9:33] MT Lundquist: i guess
[2008/06/07 9:33] You: With apologies to Moon and the Guild & others who may have had business this week
[2008/06/07 9:33] MT Lundquist: i’ll tell prin
[2008/06/07 9:33] You: rtight
[2008/06/07 9:33] You: and yes, love to stay and hear that, Gwyn, great idea
[2008/06/07 9:34] MT Lundquist: she says yes please to the orgy and she will log back in
[2008/06/07 9:34] MT Lundquist: but really she has a headache
[2008/06/07 9:34] You: although of course if that commisson is to meet it also must announce time 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:34] MT Lundquist: hi rose
[2008/06/07 9:34] You: Well our best wishes to Prin
[2008/06/07 9:34] Rose Springvale: hi everyone
[2008/06/07 9:34] Moon Adamant: MT, thank her for us
[2008/06/07 9:34] Moon Adamant: hi Rose
[2008/06/07 9:35] You: Good morning (such as it is) Rose 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:35] Rose Springvale: hi Jamie… sigh.. you guys look a little sparse
[2008/06/07 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi hi Rose 😀
[2008/06/07 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, well, we are
[2008/06/07 9:36] Rose Springvale: sighs
[2008/06/07 9:36] You: We just concluded we’re not having RA, and offered the rest of this time to Gwyn to help organize The Miscellaneous Good Intentions Commission
[2008/06/07 9:37] Rose Springvale: oh. i thought this was the chancellor meeting today
[2008/06/07 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well
[2008/06/07 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, it *was*…
[2008/06/07 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so hmm
[2008/06/07 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT, what time would be best for you?
[2008/06/07 9:37] You: So did I, he says in a deceptively mild tone
[2008/06/07 9:37] Rose Springvale: does he come later?
[2008/06/07 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, how much time should that be announced in advance?
[2008/06/07 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3 days? 1 day? 5 minutes? 😀
[2008/06/07 9:37] You: oh he will come 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:37] MT Lundquist: best time?
[2008/06/07 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, for the Commission
[2008/06/07 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which ought to have met 2 weeks ago
[2008/06/07 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/06/07 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn blames herself
[2008/06/07 9:38] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/06/07 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the one to get all sorts of proposals on term limits, overlapping roles, and code of conduct
[2008/06/07 9:38] You: hm
[2008/06/07 9:38] MT Lundquist: just suggest sometime
[2008/06/07 9:38] MT Lundquist: times
[2008/06/07 9:38] Patroklus Murakami: aah, i see 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:39] You: The Commission of Good Intentions and Unspeakble Name 😀
[2008/06/07 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the one 😀
[2008/06/07 9:39] Patroklus Murakami: “the path to hell…..”
[2008/06/07 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me see… Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday I’m usually unavailable from 2 PM to 5 PM SLT
[2008/06/07 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can meet either earlier or later…
[2008/06/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tomorrow, I have something at 2:30 PM
[2008/06/07 9:40] MT Lundquist: i go to bed at 12pm slt weekdays
[2008/06/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, all right.
[2008/06/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wait
[2008/06/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 12 PM SLT?
[2008/06/07 9:40] MT Lundquist: its so i’m adjusted to Prins day
[2008/06/07 9:40] MT Lundquist: i work
[2008/06/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I go to sleep much earlier lol
[2008/06/07 9:40] MT Lundquist: she works
[2008/06/07 9:40] MT Lundquist: i sleep
[2008/06/07 9:40] MT Lundquist: i get up at 4am in my morning
[2008/06/07 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow!
[2008/06/07 9:41] You: You are a saint MT
[2008/06/07 9:41] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: jamie, how much advance notice should we give then?
[2008/06/07 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d suggest mmh Tuesday at 2 PM perhaps?
[2008/06/07 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or Thursday, from noon onwards to 6 PM would be fine
[2008/06/07 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: same on Friday
[2008/06/07 9:42] MT Lundquist: noon thursday may be ok for an hour
[2008/06/07 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[2008/06/07 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Works for me…
[2008/06/07 9:42] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/06/07 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it gives 5 days or so advance notice.
[2008/06/07 9:43] MT Lundquist: ok well i guess i may as well go if theres no meeting
[2008/06/07 9:44] You: Yup and thanks for trying MT
[2008/06/07 9:44] You: before you go
[2008/06/07 9:44] MT Lundquist: np
[2008/06/07 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, thanks so much for coming…
[2008/06/07 9:44] MT Lundquist: see you all again
[2008/06/07 9:44] Rose Springvale: that means you all can go make me an auction donation 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:44] You: is there a specific timing issue on the Commerce Commission output?
[2008/06/07 9:44] MT Lundquist: only when RA wants it
[2008/06/07 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2008/06/07 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and YES, Rosie dear!)
[2008/06/07 9:45] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:45] MT Lundquist: ok bye for now
[2008/06/07 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you soon, MT 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:45] Rose Springvale: thanks Gwyn!
[2008/06/07 9:45] Danton Sideways: When is the auction again?
[2008/06/07 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prepare to be spammed, Rose 😀
[2008/06/07 9:45] Rose Springvale: tomorrow at 2 slt
[2008/06/07 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tomorrow?
[2008/06/07 9:46] Rose Springvale: in alpine meadows
[2008/06/07 9:46] Rose Springvale: now danton, i must insist
[2008/06/07 9:46] Rose Springvale: that you open your invitation
[2008/06/07 9:46] You: Anything you need from us infomally on The Nameless Commission, G?
[2008/06/07 9:46] Danton Sideways: I must have filed it
[2008/06/07 9:46] Patroklus Murakami: i must get going too, bye everyone 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bye bye! Pat!
[2008/06/07 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, not really
[2008/06/07 9:47] Rose Springvale: bye pat
[2008/06/07 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and let’s call it “Comission on Term Limts, Overlapping Roles, and RA Code of Conduct” 😀
[2008/06/07 9:48] You: the Cthulu Commi – never mind 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:48] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/06/07 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[2008/06/07 9:49] Moon Adamant: The NG Secretary of the Board would like to make a statement
[2008/06/07 9:49] You: Feel free – though we’re probably not ranscripting this, migh wan tto do a forum post too
[2008/06/07 9:50] You: I know your group’s worked very hard to deliiver some key material today specificalky.
[2008/06/07 9:50] Moon Adamant: We are very sorry that this RA session failed to happen, as it could decide the immediate exapnsion to 47 new citizens
[2008/06/07 9:51] Moon Adamant: and also approve a very important tool for the NG – our new Charter
[2008/06/07 9:53] Danton Sideways: Everybody must be in IM 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:53] Rose Springvale: i’m just sitting here collecting donations Danton lol
[2008/06/07 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn is swamping Rose in donations
[2008/06/07 9:54] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/06/07 9:54] Moon Adamant: ok, i will remove the cubes from the wall
[2008/06/07 9:54] Danton Sideways: Nothing to donate so I’ll try to show up to buy something
[2008/06/07 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some of these outfits are actually very nice, Rose!…. just out of fashion hehe
[2008/06/07 9:54] You: Gwyn I think I promised to make a suggestion about something you personally could donate to the auction, grin
[2008/06/07 9:54] Rose Springvale: Vintage, Gwyn, Vintage
[2008/06/07 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs* riiiiight
[2008/06/07 9:54] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/06/07 9:54] Rose Springvale: danton, just come and support us 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie… let’s hear it!
[2008/06/07 9:55] Danton Sideways: Hey FR!
[2008/06/07 9:55] Flyingroc Chung: hi, sorry for being late
[2008/06/07 9:55] Rose Springvale: hi FRC
[2008/06/07 9:55] Moon Adamant: hello FR
[2008/06/07 9:55] You: well well
[2008/06/07 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome, FR 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:55] Flyingroc Chung: rezzig…
[2008/06/07 9:55] You: Good morning Roc
[2008/06/07 9:55] You: We declared inquorate at 09h30 but have been chatting informally
[2008/06/07 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Better late than never, FR!
[2008/06/07 9:55] Flyingroc Chung: ah
[2008/06/07 9:56] Flyingroc Chung: this is the portugese motto, no?
[2008/06/07 9:56] You: let’s see who still is on line
[2008/06/07 9:56] Flyingroc Chung: 😉
[2008/06/07 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes it is, FR 😉
[2008/06/07 9:56] Moon Adamant: MT is
[2008/06/07 9:58] Jamie Palisades is IM ing with MT
[2008/06/07 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Master Roc
[2008/06/07 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: how have you been? 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Did you sleep well? 🙂
[2008/06/07 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2008/06/07 9:59] Rose Springvale: hmmmm
[2008/06/07 9:59] Flyingroc Chung: Lots of work
[2008/06/07 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ouchie.
[2008/06/07 9:59] Flyingroc Chung: I got home at 9:00 last night
[2008/06/07 9:59] Moon Adamant: Princess is logged too
[2008/06/07 9:59] Rose Springvale: yikes.
[2008/06/07 9:59] Rose Springvale: do you think we sent you out there to work all the time? oh no!
[2008/06/07 10:00] Flyingroc Chung: well, we were building this interesting spellchecker application that would take advantage of multicore processors
[2008/06/07 10:00] Flyingroc Chung: unfortunately, ours is not as good as Word’s, which isn’t all that good to begin with. 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I thought it was because he enjoyed the rain, Rose… 😀
[2008/06/07 10:01] Rose Springvale: nods like she understands multicore processors
[2008/06/07 10:01] Flyingroc Chung: omg it rained the whole week
[2008/06/07 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s *finally* sunny around here 😀
[2008/06/07 10:01] Flyingroc Chung: I think seattle has more vampires than anywhere else, since the sun is never out here
[2008/06/07 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we had to wait soooo long… lol
[2008/06/07 10:01] Rose Springvale: you are not used to that.. it will drive you crazy
[2008/06/07 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha FR
[2008/06/07 10:01] Rose Springvale: vampires in Seattle.. now THAT is a book
[2008/06/07 10:01] You: we’re not getting MT back I think
[2008/06/07 10:01] You: Coffee Vampires!
[2008/06/07 10:01] Flyingroc Chung: though it doesn’t matter, I’m in a small windowless room most of the day anyway
[2008/06/07 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* @ Jamie and is not surprised
[2008/06/07 10:02] Flyingroc Chung: basking in the glow of the monitor
[2008/06/07 10:02] Danton Sideways: At least it’s a room
[2008/06/07 10:02] Danton Sideways: and not just a cubicle
[2008/06/07 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’ll get a nice UV tan, FR 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:02] Flyingroc Chung: Danton, I’m “doubled up” with somebody else
[2008/06/07 10:03] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/06/07 10:03] Rose Springvale: FRC, i could use a cute little gadget donation for the auction…
[2008/06/07 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, you’ve got a *Guild* Tshirt? How cool
[2008/06/07 10:03] Danton Sideways: better than being in just one giant room
[2008/06/07 10:03] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:03] Flyingroc Chung: hm
[2008/06/07 10:03] Rose Springvale: yes, and you too can have one tomorrow!
[2008/06/07 10:03] Flyingroc Chung: true, danton
[2008/06/07 10:03] You: So what’s this I heard about DPU, Roc ? 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I hope to be able to bid for one 😉
[2008/06/07 10:03] Flyingroc Chung: all I have are gambling games
[2008/06/07 10:03] Rose Springvale: Cindy made them, any donation to the guild will get you one 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooooh gossip?!
[2008/06/07 10:04] Rose Springvale: you have coffee!
[2008/06/07 10:04] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:04] Rose Springvale: < has seen coffee
[2008/06/07 10:04] You: oh - right - Gwyn: donate a trans copy of your smoking anim
[2008/06/07 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders what the "coffee" thingy is 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah... sure
[2008/06/07 10:04] You: this is virtual Europe, dammit!
[2008/06/07 10:04] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/06/07 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol 😀
[2008/06/07 10:04] Rose Springvale: she gave me a billion things
[2008/06/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, mostly old clothes
[2008/06/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
[2008/06/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I can give some anims too
[2008/06/07 10:05] You: in fact Sudane's cafe should be posted as the smoking section!
[2008/06/07 10:05] Rose Springvale: Vintage Gwyn!
[2008/06/07 10:05] Rose Springvale: Vintage!!
[2008/06/07 10:05] Danton Sideways: cool
[2008/06/07 10:05] Rose Springvale: i will teach you to market yet 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, yes, all right, vintage!
[2008/06/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
[2008/06/07 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'd love to take classes!!
[2008/06/07 10:05] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/06/07 10:06] Danton Sideways: tell M
[2008/06/07 10:07] Rose Springvale: i have all the perms on these right? i hope to never uncheck another perm box again lol
[2008/06/07 10:07] Flyingroc Chung: I have hm a blackjack table
[2008/06/07 10:07] Rose Springvale: fun!
[2008/06/07 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You should, Rose
[2008/06/07 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope you do lol
[2008/06/07 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The clothes are ok
[2008/06/07 10:07] Rose Springvale: okay 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:07] Flyingroc Chung: those are illegal now
[2008/06/07 10:07] You: hm
[2008/06/07 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All designers before 2006 always made permissions no-copy but transfer
[2008/06/07 10:07] Rose Springvale: only if used to gamble with.. can you play without gambling?
[2008/06/07 10:07] Danton Sideways: vintage!
[2008/06/07 10:08] You: not if they are not fed wih money:)
[2008/06/07 10:08] Rose Springvale: lol danton!
[2008/06/07 10:08] Flyingroc Chung: nope
[2008/06/07 10:08] Rose Springvale: hmm
[2008/06/07 10:08] Rose Springvale: are charity casino nightst alllowed?
[2008/06/07 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmmh
[2008/06/07 10:08] You: close call, grin, nose wrinkle
[2008/06/07 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think not, UNLESS you can prove you're a RL charity and chartered to do gambling 😉
[2008/06/07 10:09] Rose Springvale: usually charity nights are exempt from charters...
[2008/06/07 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I have been for long trying to worry LL's lawyers
[2008/06/07 10:09] Rose Springvale: unless they sell liquor...
[2008/06/07 10:09] Danton Sideways: at least put TM on it
[2008/06/07 10:09] You: oo
[2008/06/07 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Around here, *anyone* can create a game to win money IF you get a permission from the authorities (it's mostly bureaucracy, not really more than that)
[2008/06/07 10:09] You: let's auction off Robin L!
[2008/06/07 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what would LL do,
[2008/06/07 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if I'd send them a permit? 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:10] Rose Springvale: smile
[2008/06/07 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh jamie
[2008/06/07 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: she'd fetch zillions of L$!!
[2008/06/07 10:10] Rose Springvale: i'll send her ants..
[2008/06/07 10:10] Danton Sideways: how much on Facebook?
[2008/06/07 10:10] Rose Springvale: does facebook sell now??
[2008/06/07 10:11] Danton Sideways: they have an application where you "buy" other people's profiles
[2008/06/07 10:11] Flyingroc Chung: when's the auction, rose?
[2008/06/07 10:11] Rose Springvale: oh my
[2008/06/07 10:11] Rose Springvale: tomorrow
[2008/06/07 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes hehe
[2008/06/07 10:11] Rose Springvale: 🙂 2-5
[2008/06/07 10:11] Flyingroc Chung: ah
[2008/06/07 10:11] Rose Springvale: no worries FRC
[2008/06/07 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: I'll go see if I can score some goodies from a few friends
[2008/06/07 10:12] Rose Springvale: oh great!
[2008/06/07 10:12] Rose Springvale: and invite them to come
[2008/06/07 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: I havent made a single thing in more than a year
[2008/06/07 10:12] Rose Springvale: ahhh
[2008/06/07 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* @ FR and understands *perfectly*
[2008/06/07 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: and those were all gambling games
[2008/06/07 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, are you going to auction things individually, or in batches?...
[2008/06/07 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[2008/06/07 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we have Sonja here 😀
[2008/06/07 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Sonja!
[2008/06/07 10:14] You: well hello
[2008/06/07 10:14] Rose Springvale: i'm not sure.. i was going to do individual, but i've gotten a couple of large batches.. so maybe both
[2008/06/07 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Rose
[2008/06/07 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good, so I don't need to send you more things?? hehe
[2008/06/07 10:14] Moon Adamant: hi Sonja! .)
[2008/06/07 10:14] Rose Springvale: you have done enough 🙂 thanks 🙂
----
[2008/06/07 10:14] Sonja Strom: Hi everybody.
[2008/06/07 10:14] Sonja Strom: Sorry I am late.
[2008/06/07 10:14] You: Not sure about proceeding, to be fair
[2008/06/07 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn is open to anything
[2008/06/07 10:15] You: on the one hand we adjounred
[2008/06/07 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean
[2008/06/07 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: related to the RA 😉
[2008/06/07 10:15] You: can I quote you 😀
[2008/06/07 10:15] Moon Adamant: Jamie, pass a motion between present if they want to have the session?
[2008/06/07 10:15] You: well that's what we are discussing Moon
[2008/06/07 10:15] Moon Adamant: the present RA members, of course
[2008/06/07 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
[2008/06/07 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I sense "irregularity" here, however, the RA is sovereign
[2008/06/07 10:16] You: a point in favor of going fwd: all are online except BV, so can choose wheether to attend, and we're still within the original meeting time
[2008/06/07 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and if you inform MT, jamie...
[2008/06/07 10:16] You: yup
[2008/06/07 10:16] You: can I tell him and Prin that the four of us are inclined to convene?
[2008/06/07 10:16] Moon Adamant: yes, and RA is sovereign to pass motions
[2008/06/07 10:16] Rose Springvale: do you still have seven day voting?
[2008/06/07 10:16] Jamie Palisades hopes a tiara does not come with thie 'sovereignty' thing
[2008/06/07 10:17] You: let's constrain this a sec.
[2008/06/07 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn hands over a *sceptre*
[2008/06/07 10:17] Flyingroc Chung: is there anything pressing we need to discuss?
[2008/06/07 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR: yes, the NG charter
[2008/06/07 10:17] You: Sonja, Gwyn and Roc. Do you wish to convene?
[2008/06/07 10:17] Moon Adamant: new sim
[2008/06/07 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: aye!
[2008/06/07 10:17] Moon Adamant: altenstadt redeployment....
[2008/06/07 10:17] Flyingroc Chung: sure
[2008/06/07 10:17] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/06/07 10:17] You: kk
[2008/06/07 10:17] You: doin it
[2008/06/07 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn will be right back, sorry
[2008/06/07 10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and baaaack 😀
[2008/06/07 10:21] You: OK
[2008/06/07 10:22] You: I have communicated w MT and Prin and never retracted the original call to BV
[2008/06/07 10:22] You: so
[2008/06/07 10:22] You: I believe that our best judgment is that we're free to convene, given that we are within the originl stated time commitment for the meeting
[2008/06/07 10:22] You: this is of course open to challenge 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: all righty 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:22] Rose Springvale: yay!
[2008/06/07 10:22] Rose Springvale: 😉
[2008/06/07 10:23] You: But I'm unaware of a rule, or fairness principle, that bars us convening late. Anyone else see a problem?
[2008/06/07 10:23] Sonja Strom: 3 of the 4 factions are present.
[2008/06/07 10:23] You: (and thanks for coming, Sonja and Roc)
[2008/06/07 10:23] Jamie Palisades looks around - sees no objections
[2008/06/07 10:23] Moon Adamant: and the 4th is not present out of their choice, as it seems
----
[2008/06/07 10:23] You: OK, we're convened then, and thank you.
[2008/06/07 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: None from me... I might have objected if we were NOT within the announced time/day
[2008/06/07 10:23] Moon Adamant: agenda, please?
[2008/06/07 10:23] You: proposed agenda here -
[2008/06/07 10:23] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1892
[2008/06/07 10:24] You: and it needs work 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:24] You: take a look whle I run through the administrative trivia
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[2008/06/07 10:24] You: 1a - all please assent to recording. I assent
[2008/06/07 10:24] You: taking out of order slightly
[2008/06/07 10:24] Moon Adamant: assent
[2008/06/07 10:24] You: 1d - Please read the posted transcripts, advise me of any flaws
[2008/06/07 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I definitely assent 🙂
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[2008/06/07 10:25] You: 1c - we DID have speakers for today
[2008/06/07 10:25] You: hm
[2008/06/07 10:25] Flyingroc Chung assents
[2008/06/07 10:25] You: Guild, and Pat on Elections stuff
[2008/06/07 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right... we did
[2008/06/07 10:25] Danton Sideways: I assent
[2008/06/07 10:25] You: Moon knows; I will IM Pat - but his plan can wait a week, he said
[2008/06/07 10:25] You: so arguably noi mission-critical
[2008/06/07 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat had to go, yes... so we can start with the Guild first
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[2008/06/07 10:25] You: 1b
[2008/06/07 10:26] You: agenda 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:26] Sonja Strom: I assent to be recorded
[2008/06/07 10:26] Danton Sideways: Hi Nicolae have a seat
[2008/06/07 10:26] You: I suggest we move the guild items first
[2008/06/07 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: welcome, Nicolae!
[2008/06/07 10:26] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/06/07 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds the LRA's suggestion
[2008/06/07 10:26] You: any objections?
[2008/06/07 10:26] Nicolae Debevec: hi
[2008/06/07 10:26] Flyingroc Chung: nope
[2008/06/07 10:27] You: Hello Nico - you are welcome but this is a formal meeting., see some agenda and process rulkes here if you like -
[2008/06/07 10:27] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1892
[2008/06/07 10:27] You: OK
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[2008/06/07 10:27] You: 1e future meetings
[2008/06/07 10:27] You: next week same time
[2008/06/07 10:27] You: Sudane has committed to us for that meeting
[2008/06/07 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn will sadly not be around but ok
[2008/06/07 10:27] You: so I will inquire of Alexi about the meeting after that
[2008/06/07 10:27] You: and we will discuss where to go from there 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:28] You: also note a number of actions and commissions that will need to move fast if the opening of the next CDS election is a deadline
[2008/06/07 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn makes note to self to grumble at the missing Chancellor
[2008/06/07 10:28] Jamie Palisades smiles - skeptically
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[2008/06/07 10:28] You: 1f
[2008/06/07 10:28] You: consent items
[2008/06/07 10:28] You: I have none. Anyone else?
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[2008/06/07 10:29] You: 🙂 OK then. Moon? Sim4 or Charter first?
[2008/06/07 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh I think not... there was some thoughts of Pat pushing a vote on the election thingies without dicussion
[2008/06/07 10:29] Flyingroc Chung: what election thingies?
[2008/06/07 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, he was here to present that himself, FR...
[2008/06/07 10:29] Moon Adamant: Charter first I believe
[2008/06/07 10:30] Jamie Palisades smiles - Pat's alternative ideas re Election Commission thread - but Moon's items have the floor 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:30] Moon Adamant: since it really is a simple document
[2008/06/07 10:30] Moon Adamant: that organizes the Guild's structure in face of the new Private Sim Dev, not to mention some internal organization that was needeed, as we epanded our activities
[2008/06/07 10:30] Moon Adamant: it's the red cube on the wall 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:31] You: or, for the transcript - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1875
[2008/06/07 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn does not have anything to add on that issue — I have read the charter quite often, and seen its development over the months, and I'm happy with it as it stands now
[2008/06/07 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean the new, proposed charter
[2008/06/07 10:32] You: Mooon, can I just confirm -
[2008/06/07 10:32] Moon Adamant: the charter, as usual, was the result of a collaborative document~
[2008/06/07 10:32] Moon Adamant: yes?
[2008/06/07 10:33] You: this text has been approved by Faculty and New Guild without change,right? As posted 25 May?
[2008/06/07 10:33] Moon Adamant: exactly
[2008/06/07 10:33] Flyingroc Chung: Does it sem like the secretary of the board is actually extremely difficlt to remove?
[2008/06/07 10:33] You: annnd it was avail for public comment? just a sec Roc please
[2008/06/07 10:33] Moon Adamant: it was voted unanimously at both Faculty and Board, if i am not mistaken
[2008/06/07 10:33] Moon Adamant: it was avaliable for public comment within the Faculty
[2008/06/07 10:34] You: well
[2008/06/07 10:34] Moon Adamant: then it was published for a wekk for omore public comment, there was none
[2008/06/07 10:34] You: by 'public' I mean, there it is, on the forums 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:34] You: right
[2008/06/07 10:34] Moon Adamant: then was voted at the board
[2008/06/07 10:34] You: so 🙂 ready for us then
[2008/06/07 10:34] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/06/07 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the post was up for public discussion to all interested parties on Sun May 25, 2008 8:51 am)
[2008/06/07 10:35] Moon Adamant: but was approved only last sunday
[2008/06/07 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2008/06/07 10:35] Moon Adamant: 1st June
[2008/06/07 10:35] You: OK thx
[2008/06/07 10:35] You: Roc you had a Q?
[2008/06/07 10:35] Flyingroc Chung: yes, 4/5 majority to eject the chair and the secretary?
[2008/06/07 10:36] Moon Adamant: that was a point that was specially voted
[2008/06/07 10:36] You: hm
[2008/06/07 10:36] Moon Adamant: voted
[2008/06/07 10:36] Moon Adamant: since the board, as you can read, is an ad-hocracy
[2008/06/07 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR: also note: 9. The Board decides by ad-hoc democracy (all citizens present at a Board meeting can vote)
[2008/06/07 10:36] You: seems a little undemocratic to me frankly - I dislike entrenched leadership roles on principle
[2008/06/07 10:36] Moon Adamant: no, not at all
[2008/06/07 10:37] Moon Adamant: you see that all citizens can show up at the guild meeting and pass a motion to depose the Sec
[2008/06/07 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, honestly, it's actually not the RA's place to 'impose' models of work to NGOs -- we just have to validate if it follows our rules for incorporation/chartering, and that newer legislation (like the BAC; and the implications on restricting 'role overlap') have been taken care of.
[2008/06/07 10:38] You: hmm - so the argument isthat a supermajority is needed to deal with an unusually transient voting cohort. Moon, the basis for my assumption is that any leader whose removal requires 4/5tha will need only acquire 20% to be untouchable
[2008/06/07 10:38] Moon Adamant: well, Jamie, this point was highly debated
[2008/06/07 10:38] You: 🙂 we respectfully may disagree Gwyn - but let's talk about the merits first
[2008/06/07 10:38] Moon Adamant: and as said, it required a special motion
[2008/06/07 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie
[2008/06/07 10:38] You: Moon, can you give us a little flavor of why the guild reached this solution?
[2008/06/07 10:39] Moon Adamant: well, first of all, the Sec and Chair will delegate much more power
[2008/06/07 10:39] Moon Adamant: in the departments
[2008/06/07 10:39] Moon Adamant: namely - financials
[2008/06/07 10:40] Moon Adamant: the main issue, i believe, was a generalized fear that an hostile take over in an ad-hocracy could unstabilize the Guild processes
[2008/06/07 10:41] Moon Adamant: processes and projects
[2008/06/07 10:41] Moon Adamant: we're there to work, after all
[2008/06/07 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, I insist that the Guild, as a NGO, is treated as such by the RA — so either the RA refuses to grant a charter, or it accepts it
[2008/06/07 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Interfering with how the Guild organises itself is, well, against our common practice
[2008/06/07 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The few legislation we have for incorporation and such just defines the terms of registration, which certainly allow each organisation to, well, organise itself as they wish
[2008/06/07 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What the RA *has* to validate are the bits that interconnect with Governmental work: in this case, the BAC and the non-overlap of some roles
[2008/06/07 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I'd like to propose a motion for the RA to accept the New Guild Charter as it is.
[2008/06/07 10:44] You: I second it.
[2008/06/07 10:45] You: personally not sure I agree with GL that we can't kibitz on NGO governance - but Moon's substantive arguments here seem to support the decision
[2008/06/07 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles
[2008/06/07 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:45] You: Any other discussion on motion?
[2008/06/07 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn waits for further discussion...
[2008/06/07 10:46] Flyingroc Chung: none here
[2008/06/07 10:47] You: Let me mention: Prin and MT have, understandably, requested 7 day vote on all action items today. This has the effects noted in our rules, but as I see it is NOT an obstacle to our proceeding -- we will just have to see if they later choose to register votes that would change any of these outcomes.
[2008/06/07 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right.
[2008/06/07 10:47] You: anyone have a problem with my take on that?
[2008/06/07 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: None whatsoever 😀
[2008/06/07 10:47] Flyingroc Chung: nope
[2008/06/07 10:47] You: OK then. Ready to vote?
[2008/06/07 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn is ready and votes 'aye'
[2008/06/07 10:48] You: Members please state your vote on the motion to approve Guild charter as submitted, which I assume *replaces* any old charters in total. I vote aye
[2008/06/07 10:48] You: Sonja? Roc?
[2008/06/07 10:48] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/06/07 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, basically this supercedes NL 6-2)
[2008/06/07 10:49] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/06/07 10:49] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/06/07 10:49] Flyingroc Chung: are we keeping the wiki up to date?
[2008/06/07 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:49] You: thanks. I declare it passed 4-0-0- subjectto adjustment by the 7 day rule, at the request of MT and ThePrincess.
[2008/06/07 10:49] Moon Adamant: thank you 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:49] You: Roc 🙂 let's do have that chat
[2008/06/07 10:49] You: but not on Moon's clock
[2008/06/07 10:49] Moon Adamant: lol
[2008/06/07 10:49] You: heh
[2008/06/07 10:49] Moon Adamant: ok, next
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[2008/06/07 10:50] Moon Adamant: 4 th Sim
[2008/06/07 10:50] Moon Adamant: on the wall behind sonja
[2008/06/07 10:50] Moon Adamant: you have 2 cubes
[2008/06/07 10:50] Jamie Palisades and Gwyn exchange Dark Significant Looks about the archiving, and move on
[2008/06/07 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/06/07 10:50] Moon Adamant: orange is the covenant draft, again a collaborative document by an open WG
[2008/06/07 10:51] Moon Adamant: Yellow is Sudane's post about financials which adds to her previous post
[2008/06/07 10:51] Moon Adamant: i will start to present covenants
[2008/06/07 10:51] Moon Adamant: first of all, a note
[2008/06/07 10:52] Moon Adamant: the Guild has kept the CDS General covenants as they are stated for AM on this document
[2008/06/07 10:52] Moon Adamant: but will present this RA with a list of concerns expressed by several citizens about the General Covenants, and will ask a review
[2008/06/07 10:52] Moon Adamant: As for the rest of the covenants
[2008/06/07 10:53] Moon Adamant: and due to the fact that we often have complaints that our covenants are too long,
[2008/06/07 10:53] Moon Adamant: we tried to keep them as short and simple as possible.
[2008/06/07 10:53] Moon Adamant: done and ready for questions
[2008/06/07 10:53] You: 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:53] You: Moon
[2008/06/07 10:54] Moon Adamant: yes?
[2008/06/07 10:54] You: This also was subject to a review process, I think, can you briefly explain it?
[2008/06/07 10:54] Moon Adamant: the covenants?
[2008/06/07 10:54] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/06/07 10:54] You: yes - it's good for us to note in the record when things have been posted, subject to reviews etc.
[2008/06/07 10:54] You: just very briefly 🙂
[2008/06/07 10:55] Moon Adamant: the wg met on two consecutive nights to work upon a draft which was a mix from CN and AM covenants
[2008/06/07 10:55] Moon Adamant: due to the fact that this is a roman sim, so gets some elements from CN, and is a double sim, gets some elements from AM
[2008/06/07 10:56] Moon Adamant: double prim*
[2008/06/07 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn has no questions -- there is just a TINY thingy, on 2 h (a sentence is duplicated) but that's me just being pedant 😛
[2008/06/07 10:56] Moon Adamant: the doc was posted immdediately after drafted
[2008/06/07 10:57] Moon Adamant: and to this moment, only has had some typos corrections
[2008/06/07 10:57] Rose Springvale: correction was posted moon, to two items
[2008/06/07 10:57] You: 🙂 thanks.
[2008/06/07 10:57] Moon Adamant: all clauses have been voted unanimously, with exception of height clauses, in which there was one abstain
[2008/06/07 10:58] You: and for the transcript, the text is here - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1898
[2008/06/07 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, if we approve the covenants, I'd like to add Rose's posted corrections & typos as friendlies, they definitely don't change anything.
[2008/06/07 10:58] Moon Adamant: yes, indeed
[2008/06/07 10:58] Moon Adamant: they're friendlies... we were just getting very very tired lol
[2008/06/07 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I can imagine
[2008/06/07 10:58] You: put a motion to approve out?
[2008/06/07 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My suggestion would be just the following, Mr LRA
[2008/06/07 10:58] Sonja Strom: I have a question.
[2008/06/07 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let's approve the sim's name first, because the sim should be identified on the Covenants with its "proper name"
[2008/06/07 10:59] Moon Adamant: yes?
[2008/06/07 10:59] You: gwyn then sonja please
[2008/06/07 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I'm finished …
[2008/06/07 10:59] Moon Adamant: ah, yes, he sim's name will be a friendly too
[2008/06/07 10:59] You: can we have sonja's Q then ask for motions?
[2008/06/07 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/06/07 10:59] Moon Adamant listens to Sonja~
[2008/06/07 10:59] Sonja Strom: What would the proposed covenants say about allowing signage for shops?
[2008/06/07 11:00] Moon Adamant: general covenants, Sonja
[2008/06/07 11:00] Sonja Strom: like those in AM?
[2008/06/07 11:00] You: yes- to clarify
[2008/06/07 11:00] Moon Adamant: and also
[2008/06/07 11:00] Moon Adamant: clause 3.d
[2008/06/07 11:01] Moon Adamant: Commercial function is allowed if falling within the theme of the sim, or, failing that, be kept in interior spaces. Cultural, Social and Arts and Crafts organizations are exempt of this clause.
[2008/06/07 11:01] You: Sonja, that subject will be treated in the same way in all four sims, except there's a "period materials" issue that varies I believe
[2008/06/07 11:01] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/06/07 11:01] Moon Adamant: in this sim specifically
[2008/06/07 11:01] Sonja Strom: but the signage covenants vary by sim now, don't they?
[2008/06/07 11:01] You: more discussion?
[2008/06/07 11:02] You: hmmmmmm
[2008/06/07 11:02] Moon Adamant: 2.d
[2008/06/07 11:02] Moon Adamant: d) All the buildings exteriors must be built in pre-industrial materials, namely: .Structural elements can be stone, brick or wood. .Roofing elements can be slate or terracotta shingles or tiles. .Exterior flooring elements can be brick, ceramics, stone, wood or mosaic. .Wall elements can be stone, brick, wood, stucco or fresco. .Door and window elements can be wood or metals, raw or painted. .Large panes of glass in any colour must be partitioned by appropriate framing.
[2008/06/07 11:02] Flyingroc Chung: so, if I were, say selling togas, that would be ok?
[2008/06/07 11:02] Moon Adamant: Sonja
[2008/06/07 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR: yes on the outside 😉
[2008/06/07 11:02] You: I do not think so Sonja:) the ENFORCEMENT may vary ...
[2008/06/07 11:02] Moon Adamant: yes, what Jamie said
[2008/06/07 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but it should then look like a 'real' Roman shop for selling togas 😉
[2008/06/07 11:02] Sonja Strom: hmm, I will try to look into that.
[2008/06/07 11:02] You: More?
[2008/06/07 11:03] You: Or any motions?
[2008/06/07 11:03] Sonja Strom: I believe the signage laws are different in AM than in Neufreistadt.
[2008/06/07 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn is not going to check 😀
[2008/06/07 11:03] Moon Adamant: they shouldn't be
[2008/06/07 11:03] Moon Adamant: but in any case
[2008/06/07 11:04] Sonja Strom is feeling a little frustrated.
[2008/06/07 11:04] Moon Adamant: those belong to General Covenants, about which we will send you the note with comments and request for reviews
[2008/06/07 11:04] You: possibly - what Moon and I should have remembered to mention is this: ...
[2008/06/07 11:04] You: ... there is work that the Guild discussed on the GENERAL covenants also - but that's not proposed to be a task for today, or a barrier to Sim4 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:04] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/06/07 11:04] Moon Adamant: The Guild felt
[2008/06/07 11:05] Moon Adamant: that it is not in the Guild's scope to decree THE general covenants that apply in all sims
[2008/06/07 11:05] Moon Adamant: but in RA's scope
[2008/06/07 11:05] You: so I think, Sonja, the right answer may be this: whatever is the degree of uneven-ness, this proposal will make it no worse, and will not stop it from being corrected across CDS.
[2008/06/07 11:05] Moon Adamant: i will try to make you have that note as soon as possible
[2008/06/07 11:05] Sonja Strom: Are there 2 levels of covenants?
[2008/06/07 11:06] Sonja Strom: CDS-wide, and sim-specific?
[2008/06/07 11:06] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/06/07 11:06] Sonja Strom: oh, ok
[2008/06/07 11:06] Moon Adamant: and sim specific can even be more subdivided
[2008/06/07 11:06] You: Is what I said to Sonja a fair assessment, Moon? And yes to 2-levels
[2008/06/07 11:06] Moon Adamant: to deal with zones, typologies, detail locations, etc
[2008/06/07 11:06] Sonja Strom: So what you were saying about it only having general covenants is, it would not have sim-specific ones, but only the CDS-wide ones.
[2008/06/07 11:07] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/06/07 11:07] Sonja Strom: ok, I understand that better now.
[2008/06/07 11:07] Moon Adamant: those are the ones we will ask you to review
[2008/06/07 11:07] You: so 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:07] Moon Adamant: the rest of the document only regulates this sim
[2008/06/07 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... so my motion this time is to get the sim's name approved first,
[2008/06/07 11:08] You: May we have a motion to adopt the posted URL draft of the CN-West (Sim4) covenants, which includes applying the CDS-wide covenants as most recently included in AM?
[2008/06/07 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and accept the covenants with Rose's typo corrections
[2008/06/07 11:08] You: oops - I crossed with Gwyn
[2008/06/07 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe sorry jamie
[2008/06/07 11:09] Jamie Palisades looks at clock - by all means let's vote on *something*
[2008/06/07 11:09] You: Gwyn. taking your motion, is that one vote or two?
[2008/06/07 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two votes
[2008/06/07 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one on the name
[2008/06/07 11:09] You: And the proposed name is?
[2008/06/07 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: another on the covenant + rose's corrections + changing "CN-West" to the new name
[2008/06/07 11:10] Moon Adamant: checks to see if there are more proposals
[2008/06/07 11:10] You: uhhhhhhh
[2008/06/07 11:10] You: how odd, gywn
[2008/06/07 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why odd? 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:10] You: why two votes touching the name?
[2008/06/07 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No I mean... the Covenants should reflect the new sim's name 😉
[2008/06/07 11:10] You: oh - ok got it
[2008/06/07 11:10] Flyingroc Chung: one for the name, one for approving the covenant
[2008/06/07 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it's just a minor change (search & replace)
[2008/06/07 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, FR
[2008/06/07 11:11] Flyingroc Chung: So what's the name gonna be? Rocatorium?
[2008/06/07 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it's just to be *clear*, I don't want to say "the RA approved a covenant with typos and incorrectly specified sim name" 😀
[2008/06/07 11:11] Moon Adamant: lol~
[2008/06/07 11:11] You: OK so do we have a name? Moonus Patientam Maximus?
[2008/06/07 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: roflatorium, Roc
[2008/06/07 11:11] Moon Adamant: lol
[2008/06/07 11:11] You: Nullus Quoram?
[2008/06/07 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahahahaha
[2008/06/07 11:11] Cindy Ecksol likes nullus quoram!
[2008/06/07 11:12] Moon Adamant: /viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1896
[2008/06/07 11:12] Moon Adamant: thread is here
[2008/06/07 11:12] Rose Springvale: ;;grumbles they turned down roseville again :::
[2008/06/07 11:12] You: help me out here guys
[2008/06/07 11:12] You: (Ccin please assent to recording, and hi)
[2008/06/07 11:12] Moon Adamant: i actually liked 'Nyah Nyah Des'
[2008/06/07 11:12] Moon Adamant: 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:12] Cindy Ecksol: assent
[2008/06/07 11:12] You: um yeah and if I didn't already have a copyright suit served on me I would too
[2008/06/07 11:13] You: Oddly Caledon serves lawsuits on saberpoint
[2008/06/07 11:12] Moon Adamant: to the end of the thread
[2008/06/07 11:12] Moon Adamant: Symo suggests Locus Amoenus
[2008/06/07 11:13] You: hm
[2008/06/07 11:13] Moon Adamant: and it has already some support
[2008/06/07 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that was the more realistic suggestion so far, Locus Amoenus
[2008/06/07 11:13] Jamie Palisades mumbles ... nice ... place?
[2008/06/07 11:13] Moon Adamant: Locus Amoenus = Pleasant Place
[2008/06/07 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wishful Thinking 😉
[2008/06/07 11:14] You: .. sort of like naming the truck stop cafe "Mom's", eh?
[2008/06/07 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
[2008/06/07 11:14] Danton Sideways: too much like Locus Amoebas
[2008/06/07 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[2008/06/07 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/06/07 11:14] Rose Springvale: the committee liked it 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:14] You: do we think there are other stakehoders who would've weighed in?
[2008/06/07 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let's put it to the vote
[2008/06/07 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose on my first motion: naming the sim, that the RA accepts Locus Amoenus as the name for the sim.
[2008/06/07 11:14] You: You so move, Gwynners? OK
[2008/06/07 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2008/06/07 11:15] You: and note the spelling
[2008/06/07 11:15] Danton Sideways: Amoebas of CDS unite
[2008/06/07 11:15] You: (just becuse every character is signif)
[2008/06/07 11:15] Moon Adamant: see, we already have the name of the football team of that sim 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :)))
[2008/06/07 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: any seconds to my motion?
[2008/06/07 11:15] You: hm go with it - and note:
[2008/06/07 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn looks at the clock and starts to worry hehe
[2008/06/07 11:16] Danton Sideways: Jamies gors with the amoebas
[2008/06/07 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/06/07 11:16] You: I second it.
[2008/06/07 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie! Shall we vote? 😀
[2008/06/07 11:16] You: and note this -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locus_amoenus - as a favorable indication
[2008/06/07 11:17] Danton Sideways: ooh
[2008/06/07 11:17] You: any more discussion?
[2008/06/07 11:17] You: Members please state their vote. I vote aye.
[2008/06/07 11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote aye, too 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:17] Flyingroc Chung: What's in a name? 😉
[2008/06/07 11:18] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/06/07 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/06/07 11:18] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/06/07 11:18] You: snickr
[2008/06/07 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: NExt sim's name: Rose? 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:18] Moon Adamant: hi Sudane 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:18] Rose Springvale: smile
[2008/06/07 11:18] Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:18] Danton Sideways: Hi Sudane
[2008/06/07 11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello Sudane 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:18] You: Motion pases 4-0-0, subj to 7 day rule as noted above. Hi Su
[2008/06/07 11:18] You: now
[2008/06/07 11:18] You: Moon
[2008/06/07 11:18] Moon Adamant: yes?
[2008/06/07 11:18] You: do we need a backup in case of LL reject, and can THAT waita wek?
[2008/06/07 11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
[2008/06/07 11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good thinking, Jamie!...
[2008/06/07 11:19] Moon Adamant: easy to see
[2008/06/07 11:19] You: *wait a week
[2008/06/07 11:19] You: well they DO reject
[2008/06/07 11:19] Moon Adamant: found none
[2008/06/07 11:19] Sudane Erato: why should they reject it, unless its already taken?
[2008/06/07 11:19] Moon Adamant: well, in that case
[2008/06/07 11:19] Moon Adamant: i would suggest that we add the word 'Civitas' in front
[2008/06/07 11:19] You: 🙂 OK, so , cross that bridge next week, if needed?
[2008/06/07 11:20] Moon Adamant: or something like that
[2008/06/07 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/06/07 11:20] Moon Adamant: yup
[2008/06/07 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let's see what LL says.
[2008/06/07 11:20] You: Time's short and I would love to get the Guild's fourth proposal on the table
[2008/06/07 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And now... motion on the covenant, with Rose's typo corrections, and replacing "CN-West" with "Locus Amoenus"
[2008/06/07 11:20] You: yes
[2008/06/07 11:20] Danton Sideways: afk
[2008/06/07 11:20] Flyingroc Chung: pleasantville
[2008/06/07 11:20] You: seconded
[2008/06/07 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, jamie 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:21] You: i loved that movie!
[2008/06/07 11:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we have discussed it a lot already, so I suggest we move to vote on the covenant...
[2008/06/07 11:21] You: discussion on covenants, pointed in chat above, with minor mods as moted?
[2008/06/07 11:21] Jamie Palisades looks around and hears no typing
[2008/06/07 11:21] You: OK then
[2008/06/07 11:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks we have discussed it enough
[2008/06/07 11:21] You: Members please state your vote. I vote aye.
[2008/06/07 11:21] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/06/07 11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye from me too
[2008/06/07 11:23] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/06/07 11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:23] You: OK. Adopted 4-0-0, subj to 7 day rule as noted above.
[2008/06/07 11:23] You: Moon - the Guild has one more?
[2008/06/07 11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
----
[2008/06/07 11:23] Moon Adamant: ok, next
[2008/06/07 11:23] Moon Adamant: yup
[2008/06/07 11:23] Moon Adamant: on the yellow cube behind Sonja
[2008/06/07 11:23] Moon Adamant: you'll find Sudane's more detailed financial model for the new sim
[2008/06/07 11:24] Moon Adamant: and i also asked Sudane to stop by, which she has done - thanks you 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:24] You: For the record, here - viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1857&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p11397
[2008/06/07 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To resume: cost of new parcels: US$0.05/square meter... 5 cents. This makes 512 parcels cost L$7552 and 1024 parcels L$15,104 (quoting Sudane)
[2008/06/07 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and
[2008/06/07 11:25] Sudane Erato: yes
[2008/06/07 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: L$ 4.35 per square meter for land in the new sim, per month (quoting Sudane again)
[2008/06/07 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That's the essential thing for us to approve hehe
[2008/06/07 11:25] Sudane Erato: that is a suggestion for the average tier, should you wish to impose zoning
[2008/06/07 11:25] Sudane Erato: .
[2008/06/07 11:25] Moon Adamant: Sudane, the covenants don't have zones
[2008/06/07 11:26] Sudane Erato: ahh... makes things simpler 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:26] Moon Adamant: yes, we thought so
[2008/06/07 11:26] Flyingroc Chung: What do we plan to use the excess revenue for?
[2008/06/07 11:26] Moon Adamant: expansion?
[2008/06/07 11:26] Rose Springvale: coffee 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:27] Sudane Erato: well... I mention that at the end
[2008/06/07 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well we haven't paid for lots of things, lol
[2008/06/07 11:27] You: recommened levels of reserves, is my short version 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:27] Sudane Erato: yes...
[2008/06/07 11:27] Sudane Erato: and for future operating expenses
[2008/06/07 11:27] Sudane Erato: when we do have operating expenses...
[2008/06/07 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I'm proposing a new motion... since we have the covenants approved (no zoning), I suggest that the RA approves Sudane's proposal for the cost of new land + the monthly tier on LA.
[2008/06/07 11:28] Sudane Erato: it makes us much healthier to have a good reserve
[2008/06/07 11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that the *next* RA discusses the budget (ie. what to do with the extra revenue), since we have a budget for this term approved already anyway 😉
[2008/06/07 11:28] Sudane Erato: we do?
[2008/06/07 11:28] Flyingroc Chung: how well have we tracked to that budget?
[2008/06/07 11:29] You: 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:29] Sudane Erato: well, we've been positive each month
[2008/06/07 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To recap: Motion on the floor: That the RA approves the pricing of the plots in Locus Amoenus as follows: cost of new parcels: US$0.05/square meter; L$ 4.35 per square meter for land in the new sim, per month
[2008/06/07 11:29] You: Happy to do this a bit, but we have a specific, longer, scheduled chat about budget *next* week
[2008/06/07 11:29] Sudane Erato: yes
[2008/06/07 11:30] You: second for Gwyn's motion?
[2008/06/07 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn points out that the discussion of the budget is NOT on today's agenda, and votes against any motion to propose to discuss it *today* 😉
[2008/06/07 11:30] You: well I will second it so we can discuss.
[2008/06/07 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only thing that I might comment upon is to have a rough idea on how much the CDS's gross margin on the prices is.... 30% or so, right, Sudane?
[2008/06/07 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This would mean roughly 70% sales to break even?
[2008/06/07 11:32] Sudane Erato: so
[2008/06/07 11:32] Flyingroc Chung: Hm, I'm having difficulty finding sudanes earlier post on the pricing?
[2008/06/07 11:32] Sudane Erato: hmmm... I did that calc...
[2008/06/07 11:32] Sudane Erato: i'd have to retrieve it... but that sounds about right
[2008/06/07 11:32] Moon Adamant: FR, same thread, first page
[2008/06/07 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1857&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p11397 for Sudane's detailed comments on her proposal
[2008/06/07 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I haven't got a calculator handy, but it looks about right, Sudane 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:33] Sudane Erato: yes, thats it
[2008/06/07 11:33] Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that aiming for a 70% occupancy is pretty reasonable
[2008/06/07 11:33] You: I have two comments seeking confirmation. First, I read this, I read the underlying earlier one, and I note our detailed land price chats last RA meeting. It's my impression that these proposals are generaly consiste with our rough consensus expressed last week - and that there's no dispute on the numbers or prudence of the recommended reserve levels. Is that a fair summary?
[2008/06/07 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, I subscribe to your words... it's my understanding as well 😀
[2008/06/07 11:34] Flyingroc Chung: what is the recommended reserve level?
[2008/06/07 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 months of tier, FR
[2008/06/07 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: unless there was new legislation passed
[2008/06/07 11:34] Sudane Erato: well... yes
[2008/06/07 11:34] Sudane Erato: but we are way beyond that
[2008/06/07 11:35] Flyingroc Chung: we are currently above that level...
[2008/06/07 11:35] Sudane Erato: yes...
[2008/06/07 11:35] Moon Adamant: yes, because we need to expand as well
[2008/06/07 11:35] Sudane Erato: my intent is that there be a "margin" each month...
[2008/06/07 11:35] Sudane Erato: rather than the concept of adding to reserves
[2008/06/07 11:35] Sudane Erato: simply because revenues each month may fall short
[2008/06/07 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My apologies.... just 1 month of tier actually: http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-ind ... age=NL+4-6
[2008/06/07 11:36] Sudane Erato: for example, not all parcels may be sold
[2008/06/07 11:36] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2008/06/07 11:36] You: Roc, done with your question? If so, Cindy next
[2008/06/07 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So legally the Treasurer has to have 4 * US$295 in funds 😀
[2008/06/07 11:36] Sudane Erato: yes
[2008/06/07 11:36] Sudane Erato: well...
[2008/06/07 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: US $1180
[2008/06/07 11:36] Sudane Erato: 2x 195 + 1x 295
[2008/06/07 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry! yes!
[2008/06/07 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*
[2008/06/07 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, we have 5 times that in reserve 😀
[2008/06/07 11:37] Sudane Erato: yes, which i am very pleased about
[2008/06/07 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm quite happy with the pricing as presented, and definitely will vote yes on Sudane's recommended prices for LA 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:37] Jamie Palisades mutters ... rah solvency, rah rah
[2008/06/07 11:37] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2008/06/07 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy had a question...
[2008/06/07 11:37] Rose Springvale thinks of ways to spend money...
[2008/06/07 11:37] Cindy Ecksol: I'd just comment first that the "reserve" is a minimum, not a maximum. And second that having a margin allows us to allocate funds for stuff like publicity, parties, special events....something that we have not been doing much of this term.
[2008/06/07 11:37] You: OK I will take Roc's Q as answered then. Cindy?
[2008/06/07 11:37] Sudane Erato: we are buying this sim without borrowing
[2008/06/07 11:37] Moon Adamant: exactly Cindy!
[2008/06/07 11:37] Rose Springvale: yayyy!!!
[2008/06/07 11:38] Sudane Erato: yes, I agree completely Cindy
[2008/06/07 11:38] Moon Adamant: and paying Guild work 😉
[2008/06/07 11:38] Cindy Ecksol: yes, of course. so please approve a tier that will take those things into account!
[2008/06/07 11:38] Sudane Erato: i think we will evolve to a much larger part of our budget being other than tier
[2008/06/07 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn most definitely agrees. MT has expressed the same issue earlier before: people are still paying events out of their pocket
[2008/06/07 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway
[2008/06/07 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that's for the budget discussion next week? .... 😉
[2008/06/07 11:38] Sudane Erato: yes
[2008/06/07 11:39] You: 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:39] Flyingroc Chung: seems to me we have beenhaving budget surpluses and not spending it
[2008/06/07 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn quotes herself: Motion on the floor: That the RA approves the pricing of the plots in Locus Amoenus as follows: cost of new parcels: US$0.05/square meter; L$ 4.35 per square meter for land in the new sim, per month
[2008/06/07 11:40] Flyingroc Chung: so why not have chepaer tier to allowa broader range of people to beable to live in the CDS?
[2008/06/07 11:40] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2008/06/07 11:40] Sonja Strom: That was one of our goals with this sim.
[2008/06/07 11:40] Moon Adamant: sorry guys
[2008/06/07 11:41] Sudane Erato: 4.35 is pretty cheap
[2008/06/07 11:41] Moon Adamant: this is a double prim sim
[2008/06/07 11:41] Cindy Ecksol thinks $10 per month is not eliminating anyone who can afford an internet connection
[2008/06/07 11:41] You: Rosee?
[2008/06/07 11:41] Flyingroc Chung: one of the reasons that allowed me to join nburg when I was a poor grad studaent was the dirt cheap rates 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:41] Moon Adamant: 512 m2 costs L$2.227
[2008/06/07 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices her own words last week on FR's issue: "we should compete in services, not in prices" — and adds Sudane's comment: "2. L$4.35 is a VERY reasonable price. Back to SLNE, our monthly tier is L$5.90, and will probably rise soon. AND, again, SLNE is single primmed. The rates in the CDS are a bargain.... very much a "peoples' rate"."
[2008/06/07 11:41] Moon Adamant: and 1024 m2 the double: 4.454 per month
[2008/06/07 11:41] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:41] Rose Springvale: if you are going to consider lower tier, my request is that you do it across the board.. no reason for old timers to subsidize new people with more prims!
[2008/06/07 11:42] Sudane Erato: yes... i really would emphasize that
[2008/06/07 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn definitely agrees with Rose
[2008/06/07 11:42] You: done, rose?
[2008/06/07 11:42] Sudane Erato: hehe... yes Rose, I agree :)..
[2008/06/07 11:42] Rose Springvale: done
[2008/06/07 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I think that Sudane's post pretty much addressed our issue last week: we ARE proposing lower rates than usual SL-wide
[2008/06/07 11:42] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/06/07 11:42] Sudane Erato: yes
[2008/06/07 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: About 30% lower!
[2008/06/07 11:43] You: Frankly I think one's view depensd on whether one wants each SIM to foot & balance, or one might be willing to spend down some reserves from 1-2-3 to subsidize #4
[2008/06/07 11:43] Moon Adamant: for a land which has covenants, public infrastructure, self-governation...
[2008/06/07 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, exactly, Moon
[2008/06/07 11:43] Moon Adamant: and double prims
[2008/06/07 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND double prims, indeed!
[2008/06/07 11:43] Moon Adamant: so, i don't see what are you complaining at
[2008/06/07 11:43] Sonja Strom: and is, at least hopefully, high-quality in appearance.
[2008/06/07 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja: yes!!
[2008/06/07 11:44] Sudane Erato: we really must understand that prims, not square footage, are what you pay for in SL
[2008/06/07 11:44] You: Roc I think your take *would* lead us to a subsidize-and-spend-down-reserve type plan.
[2008/06/07 11:44] You: And I think that option's been rejected in this recommndation.
[2008/06/07 11:44] Moon Adamant has tons of textures already to prepare for packs
[2008/06/07 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Sudane
[2008/06/07 11:44] Rose Springvale whispers.... and a real community
[2008/06/07 11:44] Moon Adamant looks wistfully at the green cube for altenstadt redeployment
[2008/06/07 11:44] You: More from FR?
[2008/06/07 11:44] Flyingroc Chung: not spend down the reserve... but I'd rather a smaller margin
[2008/06/07 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose: with real drama, too 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well FR
[2008/06/07 11:45] You: (Wistful is the word alright)
[2008/06/07 11:45] Sonja Strom: LOL Gwyn
[2008/06/07 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a smaller margin means that we have to go for a higher occupancy
[2008/06/07 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 70% is pretty reasonable
[2008/06/07 11:45] Sudane Erato: yes... we will not always be collecting all this
[2008/06/07 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, there IS some rotation in the CDS
[2008/06/07 11:45] Sudane Erato: and yet our tier *will* always be 295 US$
[2008/06/07 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly....
[2008/06/07 11:45] Flyingroc Chung: I'm concerned that we are a building a gated community
[2008/06/07 11:46] Jamie Palisades whispers to Gwyn nooooooooo - Nullus Dramatis Politae Crappus!
[2008/06/07 11:46] Moon Adamant: FR
[2008/06/07 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ROFL Jamie
[2008/06/07 11:46] Moon Adamant: how can you say that with NFS with 144m2 plots?!
[2008/06/07 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True... nobody sells those any more on private islands
[2008/06/07 11:46] You: we're still debating Roc's point? any more words on this one?
[2008/06/07 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And haven't for ages
[2008/06/07 11:46] Sudane Erato: which remain unsold
[2008/06/07 11:46] Flyingroc Chung: 144m2 plots?
[2008/06/07 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, FR
[2008/06/07 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have one!
[2008/06/07 11:46] Moon Adamant: yes,FR
[2008/06/07 11:47] Moon Adamant: the proletarians live in NFS
[2008/06/07 11:47] Sudane Erato: yay! 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:47] Moon Adamant: where plots have 144 m2 and 35 prims
[2008/06/07 11:47] Jamie Palisades snikers
[2008/06/07 11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's hard to get 1024 m2 plots on private islands even.... and we're launching a whole sim with lots of 512 m2
[2008/06/07 11:47] Sonja Strom: I would like to bring up something Gwyneth said earlier, which seems true to me: "... we ARE proposing lower rates than usual SL-wide."
[2008/06/07 11:47] Naftali Torok: grins
[2008/06/07 11:47] Naftali Torok: thannks cindy
[2008/06/07 11:47] Moon Adamant: hi Naftali
[2008/06/07 11:47] Naftali Torok: its foggy as usual
[2008/06/07 11:47] Naftali Torok: hello all
[2008/06/07 11:48] You: (Hi Naf. Please assent to being recorded, if you speak.)
[2008/06/07 11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Sonja, we are. We're really "old fashioned" here: small plots, very low tiers — and a whole lot of package of services which nobody else in SL gives!
[2008/06/07 11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Naf!!)
[2008/06/07 11:48] Sonja Strom: hi Naftali 🙂 alt-ctrl-shift-minus
[2008/06/07 11:48] You: ahem - OK you lot we are going incircles a little, nd it i late. Any more divussion of Roc's question?
[2008/06/07 11:48] Naftali Torok: yes i did already smiles
[2008/06/07 11:48] Naftali Torok: thanksks
[2008/06/07 11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I really don't think we're a "gated community" but really one that has a bit for everybody
[2008/06/07 11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I agree, we're beating around the bush lol
[2008/06/07 11:50] You: ready to vote n Gwyn' motion to accept the financials? Which I note is land pricing, NOT approval to buyt he sim from LL now
[2008/06/07 11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only way to go even further down on the prices would be to have 'older citizens' in the more expensive sims to subsidise the new plots. But as Rose pointed out, that's hardly fair...
[2008/06/07 11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes... I vote aye
[2008/06/07 11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and the next motion will be to buy the sim hehe -- tahnks, Jamie, for pointing that out 😉 )
[2008/06/07 11:50] You: members please state their vote. I vote aye.
[2008/06/07 11:51] Jamie Palisades looks towards Roc and Sonja
[2008/06/07 11:51] Flyingroc Chung: can I take my 7-day vote?
[2008/06/07 11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmpf 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: chicken!!! lol
[2008/06/07 11:51] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/06/07 11:51] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:51] You: huh dunno actually 🙂 is that available to persons not absent?
[2008/06/07 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don't think so, but let me check
[2008/06/07 11:52] You: all you political hacks have been here longer than me 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:52] Sonja Strom: says Gwyn, who is chicken of participating in the Forum...
[2008/06/07 11:52] Flyingroc Chung: our official mascot is a chicken, after all...
[2008/06/07 11:52] Sudane Erato: hehe... yes
[2008/06/07 11:52] Sonja Strom: hahaa
[2008/06/07 11:53] Moon Adamant: Mr. LRA, may i ask a few more minutes in the session to finally present the altenstadt redeployment plan too?
[2008/06/07 11:53] You: Moon, we need to do this - then a possible motion to approve sim purchase - then if people remain, we can ask them to do that.
[2008/06/07 11:53] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/06/07 11:53] You: Do we have an take on the 7 day rule, as applied to people presen?
[2008/06/07 11:54] Sonja Strom: My understanding was that we had that right at all times...
[2008/06/07 11:54] Cindy Ecksol seems so silly to allow 7-day vote when someone is present....
[2008/06/07 11:54] Moon Adamant: i only remember it being used when people were absent
[2008/06/07 11:54] Moon Adamant: from my term
[2008/06/07 11:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR, you can always abstain now.
[2008/06/07 11:54] Rose Springvale: there was an amendment by beathan and discussion, but i don't know what happened with it
[2008/06/07 11:55] Sonja Strom: but Cindy, not allowing that would give an advantage to those who did not come to the RA meetings...
[2008/06/07 11:55] Sonja Strom: it would encourage non-attendance.
[2008/06/07 11:55] Rose Springvale sighs at RA members...
[2008/06/07 11:55] You: May I have a pointer to the rule text, or we will sit here while I dig, smile
[2008/06/07 11:55] Cindy Ecksol sighs too....
[2008/06/07 11:55] Rose Springvale: i'll look
[2008/06/07 11:55] You: sigh all you like: Roc asked for it
[2008/06/07 11:56] Flyingroc Chung: alright, so we get unblocked here
[2008/06/07 11:56] Flyingroc Chung: I vote nay
[2008/06/07 11:56] Sonja Strom: any constitutional experts here?
[2008/06/07 11:56] You: OK simpler.
[2008/06/07 11:56] Sonja Strom: OK, nevermind.
[2008/06/07 11:56] You: Sonja you going to put us through the same thing?
[2008/06/07 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Sonja, it would be easy if that information were all in the same place)
[2008/06/07 11:56] You: 🙂 and ye s- TOO many 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn votes aye
[2008/06/07 11:57] Sonja Strom: In general I trust those who have spoken, but I also see no need to rush this through before we feel good about it.
[2008/06/07 11:57] Sonja Strom: I will support my colleague and vote no for the time being.
[2008/06/07 11:57] Sonja Strom: "nay"
[2008/06/07 11:57] You: OK then 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:57] You: here is where we are
[2008/06/07 11:57] You: Motion fails 2-2-0 but
[2008/06/07 11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3 votes go on 7-day
[2008/06/07 11:58] You: 2 votes are on 7 day rule.
[2008/06/07 11:58] You: 3?
[2008/06/07 11:58] You: BV did not request.
[2008/06/07 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
[2008/06/07 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[2008/06/07 11:58] Flyingroc Chung: Hm, he should still get to vote, no?
[2008/06/07 11:58] You: OK then 🙂 Can I safaly assume that a vote to buy the sim is premature given the disposition of this motion?
[2008/06/07 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, I withdraw the motion to allow the Treasurer to buy the new sim today 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Postponed to next week
[2008/06/07 11:59] Cindy Ecksol sighs
[2008/06/07 11:59] You: FR, sigh, I do not think EVERY vote that someone misses in unannounced absence AUTOMATICALLY gives them a second bite. I think they have to request it.
[2008/06/07 11:59] You: BUT
[2008/06/07 11:59] Sudane Erato: well, I would object to buying, not only if these things were not decided...
[2008/06/07 11:59] You: None of you long time RA jockeys can point me to the 7 day rule 🙂
[2008/06/07 11:59] Sudane Erato: but also if an occupaytion date was not set
[2008/06/07 11:59] Flyingroc Chung: it's in the really old rules
[2008/06/07 11:59] You: so I am going to do my own research - expect more on this next week 😀
[2008/06/07 11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, no, FR, it was added later
[2008/06/07 11:59] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2008/06/07 12:00] Moon Adamant: ok, may i kindly request then a few minutes more to present altenstradt redeployment Plan (ARP)?
[2008/06/07 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, let's see if we can approve that at least...
[2008/06/07 12:00] Jamie Palisades does not believe in the Easter Bunny, Father Christmas, intangible unwritten constitutional principles, or unlocatable laws 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:00] Sudane Erato: not Christmas???
[2008/06/07 12:01] Sudane Erato:
[2008/06/07 12:01] Moon Adamant waits
[2008/06/07 12:01] You: ..not the Santa art susu
[2008/06/07 12:01] Flyingroc Chung: "1. Is the topic ready for a vote?
If Yes, the topic is referred to the members. If all present concur, the vote may occur at the in-world meeting. Otherwise, or if one of the members not present has made a public request to do so prior to the meeting, the members vote before the next in world meeting. The results are published in the forum, along with how each member voted."
[2008/06/07 12:01] You: Members, we are over time.
[2008/06/07 12:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn points to FR that Altenstadt will have sub-512m2 plots for sale
[2008/06/07 12:01] Flyingroc Chung: http://www.aliasi.us/nburgwiki/tiki-ind ... Procedures
[2008/06/07 12:02] You: Moon has asked us on behalf of the Gild to hear the Altenstadt plan. Are you willing to extend 15 mins?
[2008/06/07 12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I agree, Jamie
[2008/06/07 12:02] You: *guild - sorry, tired
[2008/06/07 12:02] Naftali Torok: np, 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:02] You: I hear no objections.
[2008/06/07 12:02] Moon Adamant: ok
----
[2008/06/07 12:03] You: Before we do though
[2008/06/07 12:03] You: 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:03] You: I note our Chancellor has joined us
[2008/06/07 12:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ... 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!!!!
[2008/06/07 12:03] You: Welcome Alexi
[2008/06/07 12:03] Moon Adamant: yay
[2008/06/07 12:03] Moon Adamant: hi Alex
[2008/06/07 12:03] Alexicon Kurka: hello everyone, I had motherboard problems
[2008/06/07 12:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hi Pip as well 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:03] Moon Adamant: hi Pip 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:03] Alexicon Kurka: but managed to make it
[2008/06/07 12:03] Naftali Torok: hello pip, alex
[2008/06/07 12:03] You: We did not see you in the first few hours of the meeting, so need to reschedule your report.
[2008/06/07 12:03] Moon Adamant: Mr LRA: may i start?
[2008/06/07 12:04] Pip Torok: hi everyone
[2008/06/07 12:04] You: Hey, it's SL. Can you commit to the 21st Jun, Alexi?
[2008/06/07 12:04] Alexicon Kurka: 21st I am afraid not
[2008/06/07 12:04] You: we have Sudane next week 🙂 Budget stuff. You'd be most welcome then too
[2008/06/07 12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
[2008/06/07 12:04] You: so on the 28th we should get ...
[2008/06/07 12:04] You: your reports for the last, what, 3 months?
[2008/06/07 12:04] Alexicon Kurka: sure 28th it'll be
[2008/06/07 12:04] Alexicon Kurka: 😉
[2008/06/07 12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[2008/06/07 12:05] You: OK good. 09h00 SLT, and thanks, I will ask that we put you first.
----
[2008/06/07 12:05] You: Moon, Altenstadt?
[2008/06/07 12:05] Moon Adamant waits
[2008/06/07 12:05] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/06/07 12:05] Moon Adamant: if you touch the green cube behind FR~
[2008/06/07 12:05] Moon Adamant: you will see Sleazy's plan
[2008/06/07 12:05] Moon Adamant: which was the result of a long thread in the forums
[2008/06/07 12:06] Naftali Torok: great i see it
[2008/06/07 12:06] Moon Adamant: mind that our proposal - the Guild's - is just to parcel these plots - their use or not as embassy row is for you RA to discuss
[2008/06/07 12:06] Moon Adamant: if you pull the drawing down
[2008/06/07 12:06] Moon Adamant: you will have a table showing area of plots and prims
[2008/06/07 12:06] Moon Adamant: and totals
[2008/06/07 12:07] Moon Adamant: we need more or less 433 prims
[2008/06/07 12:07] Moon Adamant: now
[2008/06/07 12:07] Jamie Palisades notes for the record - URL is: http://docs.google.com/View?docid=ddg6kg6c_121db9xkrgt
[2008/06/07 12:07] Moon Adamant: today i looked at NFS prim bank
[2008/06/07 12:07] Moon Adamant: and it has 556 prims left
[2008/06/07 12:08] Moon Adamant: BUT
[2008/06/07 12:08] No room to sit here, try another spot.
[2008/06/07 12:08] Moon Adamant: the new design of the are will not need the mistake bridge, which occupies 104 prims
[2008/06/07 12:08] Moon Adamant: and also
[2008/06/07 12:08] Moon Adamant: a new version of biergarten is made and has been see and approved by our chancellor
[2008/06/07 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:09] Moon Adamant: which will reduce the current occupation of that plot of 519 prims to about 250
[2008/06/07 12:09] Moon Adamant: to sum up
[2008/06/07 12:09] Moon Adamant: by removing the Mistake Bridge and replacing biergarten
[2008/06/07 12:10] Moon Adamant: we achive a prim bank of 860 prims
[2008/06/07 12:10] Naftali Torok: not bad
[2008/06/07 12:10] Moon Adamant: which, when the 433 prims of the altenstadt are used
[2008/06/07 12:10] Moon Adamant: does not differ significantly from our current prim bank
[2008/06/07 12:10] You: Q: "mistake bridge"? Is that the bridge over the Phsyically Impossible Pond?
[2008/06/07 12:10] Moon Adamant: sothe Guild's request
[2008/06/07 12:11] Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Jamie!
[2008/06/07 12:11] Jamie Palisades nods, grinning
[2008/06/07 12:11] Moon Adamant: yes, i built it by mistake 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:11] Cindy Ecksol thinks bjerkel will be very pleased 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops did we lose Sonja?...
[2008/06/07 12:11] Moon Adamant: NFS looked a no-man's land that day!
[2008/06/07 12:11] You: well then, I have a suggestion which I wil make to you afetr the meeting, Moon, grin
[2008/06/07 12:11] Moon Adamant: so my request to the RA
[2008/06/07 12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn points out that we're not quorate any more :/
[2008/06/07 12:12] Moon Adamant: is that you approve the plan
[2008/06/07 12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah wb Sonja!!!
[2008/06/07 12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew
[2008/06/07 12:12] Moon Adamant: while Chancellor here present as well approves the removal of the bridge and the replacement of the bierhaus
[2008/06/07 12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the motion for now is: to approve the plan for Altenstadt
[2008/06/07 12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the parcel sizes as proposed
[2008/06/07 12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and request the Guild to build it as per their own specs 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (pricing and covenants as per NFS' Inner City covenants)
[2008/06/07 12:13] You: motion made. I will second it so we can discuss. Discussion?
[2008/06/07 12:14] Moon Adamant: Guild will build infrastructure and garden and pond
[2008/06/07 12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok... some questions...
[2008/06/07 12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Moon, I meant: the public spaces
[2008/06/07 12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now we have an issue in NFS,
[2008/06/07 12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is that inner city plots cannot be 'vacant'
[2008/06/07 12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: they should have a standard Fachwerk
[2008/06/07 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My question is... do we (I mean the Content Archivist) has a Fachwerk ready for each plot?
[2008/06/07 12:15] Moon Adamant: Sudane has fachwerks for that case
[2008/06/07 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I'm happy with that, if Sudane is fine with it 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:15] Sudane Erato: yes, i've just been filling empty parcels with placeholder builds...Moon's
[2008/06/07 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/06/07 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, question answered
[2008/06/07 12:15] Moon Adamant: don't you have Dianne's too?
[2008/06/07 12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, IP on Dianne's work might be.... mmmh 'tricky'
[2008/06/07 12:16] Sudane Erato: no, Dianne never made hers copiable
[2008/06/07 12:16] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/06/07 12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, so long as we DO have A standard Fachwerk, and we can comply with the covenants... I have no objections
[2008/06/07 12:16] Sudane Erato: I only have Dianne's walls
[2008/06/07 12:16] Moon Adamant: and there's Guild's builders to build fachwerks if necessary
[2008/06/07 12:16] Moon Adamant: on demand
[2008/06/07 12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I'm ready to vote on approving the Altenstadt plan as proposed 😀
[2008/06/07 12:17] You: alrighty
[2008/06/07 12:17] You: other comments or questions?
[2008/06/07 12:18] You: Moon, briefly, my same standard 'public access' uestion again - about how long was this shown to who, to get feedback?
[2008/06/07 12:18] Moon Adamant: the public plan?
[2008/06/07 12:18] Moon Adamant: about a year
[2008/06/07 12:18] Sonja Strom: I am glad this work is being done, especially since we seem to be a bit lacking in space for new citizens.
[2008/06/07 12:18] You: the thing you want us to approve today
[2008/06/07 12:19] Sudane Erato: no... there are a number of parcels available
[2008/06/07 12:19] Moon Adamant: there were even public meetings on this at Trostki's
[2008/06/07 12:19] Moon Adamant: Jamie, that thread has a year
[2008/06/07 12:19] Moon Adamant: let me try and find the exact date of the post
[2008/06/07 12:19] Sudane Erato: yes, there were multiple plans presented and discussed
[2008/06/07 12:20] Sudane Erato: .
[2008/06/07 12:20] Sudane Erato: only, the discussion has been stale for some months now
[2008/06/07 12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙁
[2008/06/07 12:20] You: Ok - but it has been "out there" for citizens to opine on, yes?
[2008/06/07 12:20] Sudane Erato: but its also been continuously on the agenda of the NG
[2008/06/07 12:21] Jamie Palisades waits
[2008/06/07 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But since some of our fellow RA members have been complaining about the lack of small, cheap plots in the CDS... I propose that we definitely approve this once and for all, to have our esteemed colleagues happy about cheap plots 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:21] Moon Adamant: the post of the plan was made
[2008/06/07 12:21] Moon Adamant: by Sleazy_Writer on Mon May 21, 2007 6:21 am
[2008/06/07 12:21] You: Good 🙂 thx
[2008/06/07 12:21] You: ready to vote?
[2008/06/07 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/06/07 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn votes "aye" on immediate re-development of Altenstadt 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/06/07 12:22] You: Members please state their vote on the Altstadt plan as pointed and described above
[2008/06/07 12:22] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/06/07 12:22] You: 🙂 I vote aye
[2008/06/07 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2008/06/07 12:22] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/06/07 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:22] Moon Adamant: thank you 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:22] You: OK. Motion passes 4-0-0, subj to 7 day adjustsment
[2008/06/07 12:22] Sudane Erato: finally!! :))
[2008/06/07 12:22] You: AND
[2008/06/07 12:22] Sudane Erato: isn't 4 a majority?
[2008/06/07 12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Sudane
[2008/06/07 12:22] Moon Adamant: yes
[2008/06/07 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so it won't interfere
[2008/06/07 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just for the record, we'll have to add those votes later on the report
[2008/06/07 12:23] You: thank you on behalf of ALL of us, RA and CDS, to Moon, Symo and the Guild team for all of this productive consructive design work d
[2008/06/07 12:23] Moon Adamant: but of course the votes of the absent members must be duly registered 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:23] You: (I know Gwyn, and yes, it won't change the outcome.)
[2008/06/07 12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the Guild can start to hack & slash at those stale, old prims, with the Chancellor's blessing, of course 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:23] You: Now
[2008/06/07 12:23] Sudane Erato: request to be excused 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:24] You: Thank you all for your patience today 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:24] Sudane Erato: ty all 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:24] You: you bet
[2008/06/07 12:24] You: By the way I have two brief important informal announcements when we close.
[2008/06/07 12:24] Alexicon Kurka agrees with the removal of the bridge and the replacement of the bierhaus
[2008/06/07 12:24] You: immediately after adjoruning 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Mr Chancellor 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds the motion to adjourn
[2008/06/07 12:24] You: Members, may we adjourn (but give me 2 mins for announcements please)>
[2008/06/07 12:24] Moon Adamant: Thank you Mr. Chancellor 🙂
[2008/06/07 12:25] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/06/07 12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2008/06/07 12:25] Alexicon Kurka: congrats the NG for this step
[2008/06/07 12:25] Flyingroc Chung: sure
[2008/06/07 12:25] You: OK – adjourned
* * *
[end]
RA Meeting: June 14. 2008
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & plans.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
— Confirm dates of next regular CDS RA election
— Drafts expected, carried over from last week, see transcript
4. Sim4 economics/purchase conditions, any additional motions (10 mins: 10h15 – 10h25)
— Patroklus Murakami proposal (/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1886)
— Elections Commission recommendations if any
6. Other?
7. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h45-11h00)
Adjournment: 12h00
Transcript of 14 June 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Neufreistadt Rathaus
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====
Note this meeting was not quorate, but we conducted a useful informal discussion of the CDS budget anway.
====
[2008/06/14 8:56] You: I am sending my TP reminders now
[2008/06/14 9:01] Jamie Palisades smiles mildly – I have send my IM reminder to each of the five, none of who appears online. Five because Gwyn sent regrets.
[2008/06/14 9:01] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:03] Sudane Erato: hi Danton 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:03] Danton Sideways: Hi Jamie and Sudane
[2008/06/14 9:03] You: Good morning Danton – we are just laying side bets on whether our threat to talk about money today drove everyone off 😀
[2008/06/14 9:03] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2008/06/14 9:03] Danton Sideways: Jamie is (away) (lost in IM) judging from tags
[2008/06/14 9:04] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:04] You: done with that now 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:04] Danton Sideways: I would have thought that would bring them in droves
[2008/06/14 9:04] Sudane Erato: hehe… yeah right
* * *
[2008/06/14 9:14] You: I see none of our esteemed coleagues online and have received no e-mail or IM answers, so with a few more minutes I will waive a scepter and declare this one a bust 🙂 with apologies to Sudane and the citizenry …
[2008/06/14 9:14] Sudane Erato: np here 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:15] Sudane Erato: hey FR 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:15] Danton Sideways: Hi FR
[2008/06/14 9:18] Sudane Erato: hi Jon 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:18] You: Nice of you folks to come – but I note as of 09h17 SLT that only two of the 7 RA members appear inworld. I have three suggestions. 🙂
* * *
[2008/06/14 9:19] Jon Seattle: Hi Sudane, Jamie, Danton, Pat, Flying
[2008/06/14 9:19] You: 😀
[2008/06/14 9:19] Danton Sideways: Hi Jon
[2008/06/14 9:19] Flyingroc Chung: hey jon
[2008/06/14 9:19] Sudane Erato: heavy duty discussion going on here 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:19] Patroklus Murakami threw his copy of ‘Capital’ away a long time ago…
[2008/06/14 9:19] Danton Sideways: well of course if we reach “the singularity” all problems dissappear
[2008/06/14 9:19] You: suggestion #1, we agree this is a bust at 09h20
[2008/06/14 9:19] You: 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:20] Patroklus Murakami: oh, and we’re having such fun!
[2008/06/14 9:20] Sudane Erato: its 9:20
[2008/06/14 9:20] Jon Seattle: well, most of the deciders are not here 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:20] Patroklus Murakami: so… why are our esteemed RA members not here?
[2008/06/14 9:20] Flyingroc Chung: it’s 9:20?
[2008/06/14 9:20] Jon Seattle: yes
[2008/06/14 9:20] Patroklus Murakami: 1) end of term blues?
[2008/06/14 9:20] Flyingroc Chung: I dont wake up this early for *real* work… sigh
[2008/06/14 9:20] Patroklus Murakami: 2) fear of electoral reform?
[2008/06/14 9:20] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2008/06/14 9:21] Patroklus Murakami: 3) technical difficulties?
[2008/06/14 9:21] Danton Sideways: lol
[2008/06/14 9:21] You: Ha ha – suggestion #2, we ask Sudane if she’s willing to proceed – that being what most of us came to hear, and the presentation going into the record ANYWAY
[2008/06/14 9:21] Danton Sideways: do have the right?
[2008/06/14 9:21] Sudane Erato: thats fine with me too
[2008/06/14 9:21] Danton Sideways: you*
[2008/06/14 9:21] Patroklus Murakami: i’m always interested to hear what sudane has to say 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:21] You: (if she is willing, given that she was kind enough to show up, unlike some of our colleagues)
[2008/06/14 9:21] Jon Seattle: Fine with me 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:21] You: @ Danton – yes but not as the official RA 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:22] Danton Sideways: “on the record”?
[2008/06/14 9:22] You: suggestion #3, I am going to start scheduling meetings BIweekly as I threatened previously 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:22] Flyingroc Chung: Just means we’ll post the transcript anyway
[2008/06/14 9:23] Danton Sideways: oops better watch what I say then 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:23] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:23] You: biweekly will have some other effects, about which I’ll comment in the forums 🙂 and my colleaguges can overrule me if they like … if they show up
[2008/06/14 9:24] You: @danton again – yes, exactly 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:24] You: so
[2008/06/14 9:24] Flyingroc Chung: we could just overrule you by showing up once a week
[2008/06/14 9:24] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2008/06/14 9:24] Patroklus Murakami: well, you’re only committed to having biweekly meetings in the constitution. will you be able to enact electoral reform in time for the elections tho if u go biweekly?
[2008/06/14 9:24] You: 🙂 I declare this meeting failed for lack of quorum – and invite all to remain to hear Sudane’s helpful informal presentation
[2008/06/14 9:25] Patroklus Murakami: clock is ticking, tick-tock tick-tock….
[2008/06/14 9:25] You: Pat I would say “no” offhand, but have not counted days
[2008/06/14 9:25] Sudane Erato: kk
[2008/06/14 9:25] You: 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:25] Sudane Erato: should we start?
[2008/06/14 9:25] Jon Seattle: Sure 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:25] Sudane Erato: ok…. well…
[2008/06/14 9:26] Sudane Erato: this presentation is really to do with what I’d call a budget framework
[2008/06/14 9:26] Jamie Palisades smiles and listens gratefully
[2008/06/14 9:26] Sudane Erato: setting the basic framework of what money we have… where the different parts go…
[2008/06/14 9:26] Sudane Erato: and how much we have available for “operational discretionary” budget
[2008/06/14 9:27] Sudane Erato: i don’t really attempt to go to that
[2008/06/14 9:27] Sudane Erato: since the discretionary budget comes from priorities that the people have
[2008/06/14 9:27] Sudane Erato: I’m just the “money techie”
[2008/06/14 9:27] Sudane Erato: so…
[2008/06/14 9:28] Sudane Erato: we start at the obvious begginning… how much money do we have?
[2008/06/14 9:28] Sudane Erato: slide one
[attachment=2]14june08Slide1.PNG[/attachment]
[2008/06/14 9:28] Sudane Erato: i trust everyone can see?
[2008/06/14 9:28] Patroklus Murakami: yes
[2008/06/14 9:28] Sudane Erato: rezzed ok?
[2008/06/14 9:29] Sudane Erato: great
[2008/06/14 9:29] Jon Seattle: looks good.
[2008/06/14 9:29] You: (we will post the images too)
[2008/06/14 9:29] Sudane Erato: when we first started Neualtenburg…
[2008/06/14 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: not me, but I’m having technical difficultires
[2008/06/14 9:29] Sudane Erato: the budget was a total crap shoot
[2008/06/14 9:29] Sudane Erato: cause we had no experience
[2008/06/14 9:29] Sudane Erato: now we have the huge benefit of experience…
[2008/06/14 9:30] Sudane Erato: and I feel a primary value is that the revenue projection be based on experience…
[2008/06/14 9:30] Sudane Erato: rather than what a sim “MIGHT” bring in… such as what we’ve discussed for the LV fees
[2008/06/14 9:30] Sudane Erato: so
[2008/06/14 9:31] Sudane Erato: you can see, if you can see…
[2008/06/14 9:31] Sudane Erato: that I’ve looked at Nove thru April to see what we collect in tier
[2008/06/14 9:31] Sudane Erato: and base all our talk on monthly numbers… averages
[2008/06/14 9:32] Sudane Erato: turns out that during that time… we averaged US$930 collections per month
[2008/06/14 9:32] Sudane Erato: now… what is that time interesting?
[2008/06/14 9:32] Sudane Erato: well, the first month of tier collections for AM was Dec
[2008/06/14 9:33] Sudane Erato: meaning that 5 of th 6 months, we were collecting for 3 sims
[2008/06/14 9:33] Sudane Erato: thats almost exactly analygous to the situation now
[2008/06/14 9:33] Sudane Erato: where we’re about to start collecting for 4 sims
[2008/06/14 9:33] Sudane Erato: so…
[2008/06/14 9:33] Sudane Erato: I think its a fair assumption to project revenues of 930 x 4/3
[2008/06/14 9:34] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/06/14 9:34] Sudane Erato: or US$1240/month
[2008/06/14 9:34] Jon Seattle: makes sense
[2008/06/14 9:34] Sudane Erato: all makes ense?
[2008/06/14 9:34] Sudane Erato: good
[2008/06/14 9:34] Sudane Erato: next
[attachment=1]14june08Slide2.PNG[/attachment]
[2008/06/14 9:35] Sudane Erato: absolute first thing to determine is our fixed costs… we don’t exist if we don’t pay tier
[2008/06/14 9:35] Sudane Erato: and thankfully, at this time its our only fixed cost
[2008/06/14 9:35] Sudane Erato: so I’ve listed the tier costs there
[2008/06/14 9:35] Sudane Erato: including LV, it will be US980… or 79%
[2008/06/14 9:36] Sudane Erato: 79% of revenues
[2008/06/14 9:36] Sudane Erato: that leaves 21% for the next step
[2008/06/14 9:37] Sudane Erato: kk… the first part of the next step is to establish a agreement… a community decision… that we want our reserves to grow
[2008/06/14 9:37] Sudane Erato: some might say… lets just keep our budget in the black
[2008/06/14 9:37] Sudane Erato: i propose that if we can, we plan to do better than that
[attachment=0]14june08Slide3.PNG[/attachment]
[2008/06/14 9:38] Sudane Erato: obviously, most communities in RL can’t manage to do better
[2008/06/14 9:38] Sudane Erato: but I think that we can… and in fact, we have for our whole existence
[2008/06/14 9:38] Sudane Erato: only… without a budget policy
[2008/06/14 9:38] Sudane Erato: if we’re looking at doing a real budget
[2008/06/14 9:39] Sudane Erato: I think that some conviction needs to be there to set aside for reserves
[2008/06/14 9:39] Sudane Erato: i’ve listed the justifications
[2008/06/14 9:39] Sudane Erato: can everyone read them?
[2008/06/14 9:39] Jon Seattle: is it appropriate also to count the value of assets?
[2008/06/14 9:39] Flyingroc Chung: how much reserves do we have currently?
[2008/06/14 9:39] Jon Seattle: yes
[2008/06/14 9:39] Sudane Erato: we have about US$5000
[2008/06/14 9:40] Jon Seattle: after the new island purchase?
[2008/06/14 9:40] Sudane Erato: assets… hmm… thats an interesting question in SL
[2008/06/14 9:40] Sudane Erato: no… briefly, the asset amount will dip
[2008/06/14 9:40] Sudane Erato: and then go back up as the land is sold
[2008/06/14 9:41] Sudane Erato: from experience we know that the land will get paid for in probably less than 2 months
[2008/06/14 9:41] Patroklus Murakami: can read em
[2008/06/14 9:41] You: hm
[2008/06/14 9:41] Sudane Erato: what they call “fixed” assets… alnd, buildings, software…
[2008/06/14 9:41] Sudane Erato: *land
[2008/06/14 9:41] Sudane Erato: thats much more a problem to value
[2008/06/14 9:42] Sudane Erato: sime could be resold
[2008/06/14 9:42] You: assuming, of course,that the 42-small-parcels lot sells *like* the 20-big-ones did
[2008/06/14 9:42] Sudane Erato: yes… but i predict it will, eventually
[2008/06/14 9:42] Jon Seattle: although I would assume that each island is worth at least $500, very conservatively
[2008/06/14 9:42] Sudane Erato: and i have not factored in the “profit” we gain by reselling abandoned land
[2008/06/14 9:42] Sudane Erato: yes… true Jon
[2008/06/14 9:43] Sudane Erato: but… its like your home…
[2008/06/14 9:43] Sudane Erato: you’re unlikely to sell it and retrieve your money
[2008/06/14 9:43] Jon Seattle: of course.. we would not like to sell 🙂 just counting capital assets.
[2008/06/14 9:43] Sudane Erato: yeah… exactly
[2008/06/14 9:43] Sudane Erato: and some of that value surely does relate to my list there
[2008/06/14 9:44] Sudane Erato: in extremeity… we COULD sell a sim..
[2008/06/14 9:44] Sudane Erato: although that cuts our revenue base
[2008/06/14 9:44] Flyingroc Chung: can you explain what “surity for our commiments” mena?
[2008/06/14 9:44] You: hm – your list gives us some concepts – but does not much suggest a methodolgy for “how much ie enough”
[2008/06/14 9:44] Sudane Erato: anyway… I strongly invite additions to my list here
[2008/06/14 9:44] You: I will wait for FR’s Q, I guess 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:44] Sudane Erato: “surity for our commitments”… hmm
[2008/06/14 9:44] You: then I’d like to get back to “amount”
[2008/06/14 9:45] Sudane Erato: i mean basically that with the money in hand, we can guarantee performance..
[2008/06/14 9:45] Sudane Erato: related to the other point
[2008/06/14 9:45] Sudane Erato: like things placed in escrow to gauarentee delivery of something
[2008/06/14 9:46] Sudane Erato: my over all point here is that we should have some policy to budget in such a way that this “reserve” grows
[2008/06/14 9:46] You: Su, I unberstand the surety and bank-ish idea, but no-one is pursuing that at present, nor even in prospect, correct?
[2008/06/14 9:46] Sudane Erato: if possible
[2008/06/14 9:46] Sudane Erato: pursuing that?
[2008/06/14 9:46] Sudane Erato: it simply “is”
[2008/06/14 9:47] Sudane Erato: and i’d like it to be existing through a conscious decision on the part of the community… rather than just by chance
[2008/06/14 9:47] Sudane Erato: hi MT 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:47] You: Sorry, Mrs. Clinton: what “is” the “is” there?
[2008/06/14 9:48] You: 😀
[2008/06/14 9:48] Sudane Erato: anyway… like I said… these points can be discussed more… I’d love a finance committee to do this with
[2008/06/14 9:48] You: And hello MT — we declared the meeting a loss but have been benefitting from Sudane’s informal budget presentation anyway
[2008/06/14 9:48] Flyingroc Chung: so we currently have enough reserves to pay for several months of tier, or several additional sims
[2008/06/14 9:48] Sudane Erato: yes
[2008/06/14 9:48] Jon Seattle: Ah, Jamie was talking about potential public banking enterprise — currently not allowed as I understand it
[2008/06/14 9:48] Sudane Erato: that’s right
[2008/06/14 9:49] Sudane Erato: yes… potential banking sponsorship is one area that would benefit
[2008/06/14 9:49] Sudane Erato: and..
[2008/06/14 9:49] Sudane Erato: its banning is only temporary, i’d suggest
[2008/06/14 9:50] Sudane Erato: anyway… the justification for this is a on going topic
[2008/06/14 9:50] Sudane Erato: so let me move on
[2008/06/14 9:50] You: um Su?
[2008/06/14 9:50] Sudane Erato: yes?
[2008/06/14 9:50] You: One quick Q on reserves
[2008/06/14 9:50] Sudane Erato: sure
[2008/06/14 9:50] You: Just checking to be sure I did not miss a point …
[2008/06/14 9:51] You: … I do not see how your points, meritorious though they are, really point to a *methodology* for determing a”safe” minimum reserve *amount*. Did I miss something?
[2008/06/14 9:51] You: Because ultimately any decision wll be … a number 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:52] Sudane Erato: thats correct… I have no proposal for a methodolgy
[2008/06/14 9:52] Flyingroc Chung: what is step 3b then?
* * *
[2008/06/14 9:52] Sudane Erato: the methodolgy is simply my gut feeling… which is a frail excuse, i know
[2008/06/14 9:53] Sudane Erato: but… that’s my limitation… i use my instincts in much of my money management
[2008/06/14 9:53] Sudane Erato: and often can’t explain it
[2008/06/14 9:53] Sudane Erato: its something that should be done collectively
[2008/06/14 9:53] Sudane Erato: hence one of my motives for a finance committee
[2008/06/14 9:54] Sudane Erato: so that said
[slide 4]
[attachment=1]14june08Slide4.PNG[/attachment]
[2008/06/14 9:54] Sudane Erato: i suggest 25% of available cash
[2008/06/14 9:54] Sudane Erato: be set aside for reserves
[2008/06/14 9:54] Sudane Erato: available cash being that money still left after the fixed costs are covered
[2008/06/14 9:54] Sudane Erato: tier is paid
[2008/06/14 9:55] Sudane Erato: again… just my sense… it’s something we *can* do, and we should
[2008/06/14 9:55] Flyingroc Chung: currently we put almost 100% then?
[2008/06/14 9:55] Sudane Erato: that 25% equals 5% of the total revenue
[2008/06/14 9:55] Sudane Erato: yes, exactly FR
[2008/06/14 9:56] Sudane Erato: we don’t really spend anything
[2008/06/14 9:56] You: 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:56] Sudane Erato: and thats why we have such a healthy reserve
[2008/06/14 9:56] You: Indeed
[2008/06/14 9:56] Sudane Erato: but… quite honestly… our process sucks
[2008/06/14 9:56] Sudane Erato: there is no examination of these issues..
[2008/06/14 9:56] You: Most of our events are self-supporting .. most of or work is volunteer
[2008/06/14 9:57] Sudane Erato: and there must be… if we are responsible with the communities money
[2008/06/14 9:57] Sudane Erato: yes… and thats fine
[2008/06/14 9:57] You: and we are darn lucky Su is utterly honesty and personally solvent 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:57] Sudane Erato: but this all should be active decision…
[2008/06/14 9:57] You: because we have NONE of what auditors call “governance” in our budget process
[2008/06/14 9:57] Sudane Erato: rather than passive… “oh… thats whats happened”
[2008/06/14 9:58] You: and not bloody much in the way of “internal controls” either 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:58] Sudane Erato: yeah… well, we had staff salaries..
[2008/06/14 9:58] Sudane Erato: but i found i couldn’t administer them the way we were doing them
[2008/06/14 9:58] Sudane Erato: and they fell by the wayside
[2008/06/14 9:58] Sudane Erato: hehe… including my own 🙂
[2008/06/14 9:59] Sudane Erato: anyway… the last step is obvious…
[attachment=0]14june08Slide5.PNG[/attachment]
[2008/06/14 9:59] Flyingroc Chung: Sudane, what was the problem with salaries?
[2008/06/14 9:59] Sudane Erato: decide what to do with the rest
[2008/06/14 9:59] You: Let me put it this way 🙂 if this were a corporate board of directors…. I’d resign to flee the personal risk of being party to so lax a system … as I said, Thank God Sudane is a benevolent volunteer
[2008/06/14 9:59] Sudane Erato: FR… the personnel changed so often…
[2008/06/14 10:00] Flyingroc Chung: but surely you’ve been treasurer since time immemorial
[2008/06/14 10:00] Sudane Erato: that I hardly knew if someone was actively on duty
[2008/06/14 10:01] Sudane Erato: yes, i have been … but there’s no “system” … nobody says, in writing … Sudane, pay this person …
[2008/06/14 10:01] Flyingroc Chung: ah
[2008/06/14 10:01] Sudane Erato: and then I mark off that they are paid, so the initiator knows
[2008/06/14 10:01] Sudane Erato: so, without that, I’ve been reluctant to guess
[2008/06/14 10:01] You: I look at the salary problem this way: Su’s not going to pay anyone without a request/authority (duh). Who’s going to give it to her? And do we expect her to spend time chasing those answers if they do not come?
[2008/06/14 10:02] Sudane Erato: yes… exactly
[2008/06/14 10:02] Jon Seattle: Shouldn’t such internal procedures be a task of the executive?
[2008/06/14 10:02] Sudane Erato: Jon, I think so
[2008/06/14 10:02] Flyingroc Chung: I think so too
[2008/06/14 10:02] You: um – who is incentivized to perform, how, exactly?
[2008/06/14 10:02] Sudane Erato: of which, yes, i am a member
[2008/06/14 10:02] Flyingroc Chung: Maybe if we also paid the chancellor 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:03] Sudane Erato: i have proposed a document… by which payment requests are made
[2008/06/14 10:03] Sudane Erato: hehe… perhaps
[2008/06/14 10:03] Flyingroc Chung: we could set up a paymaster position that is also a paid position
[2008/06/14 10:04] Sudane Erato: well… FR, that may be overkill at this moment..
[2008/06/14 10:04] Sudane Erato: we just need a “tracking”
[2008/06/14 10:04] Sudane Erato: someone verifies that a payment must be made
[2008/06/14 10:04] Sudane Erato: then I make it
[2008/06/14 10:05] Sudane Erato: and I verify that it has been paid … it can be quite simple
[2008/06/14 10:05] Jon Seattle: /sorry have to run, thanks much Sudane!
[2008/06/14 10:05] Sudane Erato: anyway … that concludes what I can offer …
[2008/06/14 10:05] Sudane Erato: yw 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:05] You: As for *pay*, 🙂 can we flag it as a known problem and move on? As for “tracking”, Su, can you post your GoogleDocs link here, for people to see?
[2008/06/14 10:05] Sudane Erato: sure…
[2008/06/14 10:05] Sudane Erato: it will take a sec…
[2008/06/14 10:06] You: and hm — do we need to take any action to make that the official request method? I do NOT think so, but you tell me. Seems like properly it’s a unilateral Executive act.
[2008/06/14 10:07] Sudane Erato: yes… it should be an executive process thing… we just haven’t gotten it high enough on the agenda
[2008/06/14 10:08] You: While Sudane looks for the URI, and perhaps messes around with its permissions a bit, let me mention this. I think the next step here, after this helpful presentation, is for anyone inclined to do so to propose legislation around budget planning.
[2008/06/14 10:09] Sudane Erato: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= … T-dTmDzBWA
[2008/06/14 10:09] Sudane Erato: i hope that works
[2008/06/14 10:09] You: And maybe we should put a notice in the forum or something? ALL YE WHO HOPE FOR PAYMENT, ENTER HERE OR ABANDON HOPE? 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:10] Flyingroc Chung: hm, so it will be up to the person who is supposed to be paid to ask for payment?
[2008/06/14 10:10] Sudane Erato: well. it was not at all my concept that *anyone* could place an entry there
[2008/06/14 10:10] Sudane Erato: no… not at all
[2008/06/14 10:10] Sudane Erato: IMO
[2008/06/14 10:10] Sudane Erato: it should be whoever has the responsibility to spend money
[2008/06/14 10:11] Sudane Erato: i think if it was open, we’d have a disaster
[2008/06/14 10:11] Flyingroc Chung: the chancellor, then
[2008/06/14 10:11] Jamie Palisades smiles and notes Sonja’s recent presence and waives
[2008/06/14 10:11] Sudane Erato: yes… and perhaps the LRA
[2008/06/14 10:11] Sonja Strom smiles
[2008/06/14 10:12] You: hm – Sudane, there would need to be some widely accessible way to log a *request* for payment, no?
[2008/06/14 10:12] Sudane Erato: could be any number of authorized people… so long as there was accountability
[2008/06/14 10:12] Danton Sideways: This brings to mind recent repeated requests for payment by a certain citizen
[2008/06/14 10:13] Sudane Erato: well… the first question is… who spends money?… who makes the decisions… and who is answerable for what they spend?
[2008/06/14 10:13] Sudane Erato: obviously the Chancellor
[2008/06/14 10:13] Sudane Erato: but perhaps the Chancellor could delegate that as well … like to an events person
[2008/06/14 10:14] Sudane Erato: the certain person has been hounding me for months … for payment
[2008/06/14 10:14] Sudane Erato: but I have no idea where that decision came from
[2008/06/14 10:14] Sudane Erato: any person could ask me for payment
[2008/06/14 10:15] Sudane Erato: and then *I* would be answerable to justify why I spent the money
[2008/06/14 10:15] Danton Sideways: we seem to be breaking new ground here 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:15] Sudane Erato: and I have no idea
[2008/06/14 10:15] You: indeed, Danton
[2008/06/14 10:15] You: but
[2008/06/14 10:15] You: if Treasurer always requires an authorization to pay
[2008/06/14 10:15] You: (which seems sound!)
[2008/06/14 10:16] You: Then if those who are empowered to authorize never do so
[2008/06/14 10:16] You: (which seems to be the case, and has long been, apparently)
[2008/06/14 10:16] Flyingroc Chung: then perhaps impeachment is in order
[2008/06/14 10:16] Danton Sideways: so the certain citizen at least has the merit posing the question
[2008/06/14 10:17] You: I do not see it FR: ha ha this crowd?
[2008/06/14 10:17] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:17] Flyingroc Chung: well some sort of big stick 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:17] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2008/06/14 10:17] You: As we are not in an official meeting, let me just point out that there’s VERY little will to require ANYTHING from ANYONE in my observation
[2008/06/14 10:17] Sudane Erato: yes 🙁
[2008/06/14 10:18] Sudane Erato: well… you require me to pay the LL tier… can we assume that?
[2008/06/14 10:18] You: FR, my own view comes from RL — infinite slack generates infinite slackers 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:18] Sudane Erato: hehe
[2008/06/14 10:18] Flyingroc Chung: sounds like my kind of town!
[2008/06/14 10:19] Sudane Erato: lol
[2008/06/14 10:19] You: Before I leave RA I will make a few suggestions about that
[2008/06/14 10:19] You: 🙂 but yes – and for EXACTLY that reason FR — factions may kill them 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:19] Patroklus Murakami: i must get going. ty for your presentation sudane, that was very thought-provoking
[2008/06/14 10:19] Sudane Erato: thx Pat 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:19] You: Indeed! Thanks very much Sudane
[2008/06/14 10:19] Patroklus Murakami: hope to see you all at a quorate RA meeting soon 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:20] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:20] You: Heh
[2008/06/14 10:20] You: Thanks for coming Pat
[2008/06/14 10:20] Sudane Erato: I should depart as well… but i am always available for questions
[2008/06/14 10:20] You: Thanks again so much
[2008/06/14 10:21] Sudane Erato: and … also in need of guidance in many areas here
[2008/06/14 10:21] Sudane Erato: so … we assume this is an ongoing discussion
[2008/06/14 10:21] You: Ha that IS my hope, anyway
[2008/06/14 10:21] Sonja Strom: I would think so.
[2008/06/14 10:21] Sudane Erato: bye all 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:21] Sonja Strom: bye bye Sudane!
[2008/06/14 10:21] You: And thanks to everyone who came
[2008/06/14 10:22] You: No need for adjournment, as we did not meet as the RA. Anything to discuss before we go?
[2008/06/14 10:22] Danton Sideways: Bye Sudane!
[2008/06/14 10:23] Flyingroc Chung: I dont have anything
[2008/06/14 10:23] Sonja Strom: Me either
[2008/06/14 10:23] Flyingroc Chung: except that if we dont know what to spend that money on
[2008/06/14 10:23] Flyingroc Chung: we probably shouldn’t be collecting it
[2008/06/14 10:24] Danton Sideways: Sudane’s whole argument was about why we should be saving it
[2008/06/14 10:24] You: 🙂 a good chat for the future FR
[2008/06/14 10:24] You: and of course … RA always can legislate if it wants
[2008/06/14 10:24] Flyingroc Chung: well, she’s saying we keep 25% of our “profit”
[2008/06/14 10:24] Flyingroc Chung: and spend 75%
[2008/06/14 10:24] Danton Sideways: but she admits maybe be only have to save some, yes
[2008/06/14 10:24] Flyingroc Chung: but we dont spend that
[2008/06/14 10:25] Danton Sideways: So CDS has to learn to spend money
[2008/06/14 10:25] You: I think, to be fair, she has been socking up dough primarily because no .. one .. is .. giving .. her … instructions .. to … do … otherwise. (Mild smile, shrug)
[2008/06/14 10:25] Danton Sideways: something it has never done before 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:26] Sonja Strom: Maybe we could have mountains!
[2008/06/14 10:26] Danton Sideways: except on tier and sims of course
[2008/06/14 10:26] Flyingroc Chung: we could start paying the guild
[2008/06/14 10:26] You: hm do Mountains cost money, Sonja?
[2008/06/14 10:26] Danton Sideways: that’s the can of worms
[2008/06/14 10:26] Danton Sideways: when you start paying anyone, where do you stop?
[2008/06/14 10:26] You: FR, is that needed? When we have sufficient volunteers at all times?
[2008/06/14 10:27] Flyingroc Chung: when we run out of that 75%
[2008/06/14 10:27] Sonja Strom: Jamie, the cost of tier has been one of the major reasons citizens have given for opposing our having mountains.
[2008/06/14 10:27] Flyingroc Chung: Well, when I came into neualtenburg, it was assumed that some day, we would be making enough money to pay for our hard working workers
[2008/06/14 10:27] Sonja Strom: I offered to help pay for them, but did not want to pay for all of it just on my own.
[2008/06/14 10:27] Danton Sideways: unproductive land
[2008/06/14 10:28] Flyingroc Chung: this was when the guild was still part of government
[2008/06/14 10:28] Sonja Strom: For about a year I offered to pay 1/4 of all costs for the mountains.
[2008/06/14 10:28] Sonja Strom: Now I’m kind of rethinking that offer.
[2008/06/14 10:28] Danton Sideways: that IS a possibility, more open land, or more sandboxes
[2008/06/14 10:29] Sonja Strom: I think they would make our community more interesting, too.
[2008/06/14 10:29] Danton Sideways: I think we should open a colony in one of the OpenSim grids
[2008/06/14 10:30] Sonja Strom: That
[2008/06/14 10:30] Sonja Strom: is a good idea, Danton!
[2008/06/14 10:30] You: hmmm
[2008/06/14 10:30] Sonja Strom: Maybe a Franchulate?
[2008/06/14 10:30] Sonja Strom: Or can that only be on the mainland?
[2008/06/14 10:30] Danton Sideways: maybe, tho I never understood that term 🙂
[2008/06/14 10:31] Sonja Strom: I can’t say I have completely either.
[2008/06/14 10:31] You: well personally I think we *should* do voids for mountains, and many other successul colonies allow this — and would welcome … legislation ….
[2008/06/14 10:31] Danton Sideways: sounds like Franchise, that I understand
[2008/06/14 10:31] Sonja Strom: My understanding is that they would be extensions of the CDS into non-contiguous areas.
[2008/06/14 10:31] You: as for franchulates — great idea — but — 🙂 no one has done the work to make it a plausible proposal.
[2008/06/14 10:32] Sonja Strom: I believe that’s true, Jamie.
* * *
[end]
Slides from Treasurer’s ReportRA Meeting: June 28, 2008
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & plans, and note RA general election timing.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
– None known.
2. Chancellor’s Report Q&A (45 mins: 09h20 – 10h05)
3. Sim4 economics/purchase conditions (20 mins: 10h05 – 10h25)
— Any RA action on land pricing of Sim 4 (Locus Amoenus)
— Any RA action on puirchase authorization for SIm 4
4. Election reform bills if any (10 mins: 10h25 – 10h35)
5. Commerce Commission recommendations if any (10 mins.: 10h35 – 10h45)
7. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h45-11h00)
Adjournment: 12h00
Transcript of 28 June 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Neufreistadt Rathaus
(scheduled for Colonia Nova Praetorium, apologies for any confusion)
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====
[2008/06/28 9:05] You: Good morning – and evening MT
[2008/06/28 9:05] Beathan Vale: oop
[2008/06/28 9:05] Beathan Vale: I was guessing
[2008/06/28 9:05] ThePrincess Parisi: there you are
[2008/06/28 9:05] Moon Adamant: Hi Jamie 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:05] Moon Adamant: hello MT
[2008/06/28 9:06] You: What a pleasant surprise. Good morning all.
[2008/06/28 9:06] ThePrincess Parisi: accesorizing sorry
[2008/06/28 9:06] You: I am afraid I was over in CN where the meeting notice said we would meet, but no matter.
[2008/06/28 9:06] Moon Adamant: hi Sonja 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:06] Sonja Strom: good morning
[2008/06/28 9:06] ThePrincess Parisi: i saw that
[2008/06/28 9:06] Jamie Palisades looks at the clock
[2008/06/28 9:06] ThePrincess Parisi: hi everyone
[2008/06/28 9:06] You: 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie may i ask you a personal question
[2008/06/28 9:07] You: Prin, you are a fashion icon – the ancients said beauty never needs to apologize 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: did you go to catholic school hon?
[2008/06/28 9:07] You: why? do I look like a nun today?
[2008/06/28 9:07] MT Lundquist: hi all
[2008/06/28 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: you just are so darn particular.. please chill
[2008/06/28 9:07] You: nice to see you Beathan.
[2008/06/28 9:07] You: 🙂 in my current role, Prin, I’m expected to try and facilitate progress. That does put a few constraints on me.
[2008/06/28 9:07] ThePrincess Parisi: actually I have found out that this is actually a computer video game after all
[2008/06/28 9:08] You: Really? Heh. What tipped you off?
[2008/06/28 9:08] MT Lundquist: what
[2008/06/28 9:08] MT Lundquist: it is!!!!!
[2008/06/28 9:08] MT Lundquist: wow
[2008/06/28 9:08] Jon Seattle: back. Hi everyone 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: I see sir
[2008/06/28 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: oh dont tell jon i said that
[2008/06/28 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: he gets very upset
[2008/06/28 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: please dont read back jon
[2008/06/28 9:08] ThePrincess Parisi: are you running for RA jon
[2008/06/28 9:09] Jon Seattle: I am not reading back 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you .. thats in your best interest
[2008/06/28 9:09] Moon Adamant: you’ll know in a while Prin
[2008/06/28 9:09] Jon Seattle: not running for RA (of course)
[2008/06/28 9:09] ThePrincess Parisi: good thanks
[2008/06/28 9:10] You: Of course, the risk in thinking of it is a game is that one might be tempted to treat the real people in it like, well, little Mario Bros mushrooms or monsters, which one can shoot at will, or jump on 🙂 – or make nasty remarks to –
—-
[2008/06/28 9:10] You: Shall we start? We are quorate.
[2008/06/28 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: yes sir
[2008/06/28 9:10] Beathan Vale: you mean I’m not a mushroom? hmmmm
[2008/06/28 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: waiting on the right earrings
[2008/06/28 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: but im fine
[2008/06/28 9:10] You: The agenda’s here as proposed: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1929
[2008/06/28 9:10] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/06/28 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/06/28 9:11] Beathan Vale: assent
—-
[2008/06/28 9:11] You: 🙂 1a. Would all please assent to recording for the transacript. I assent.
[2008/06/28 9:11] Sonja Strom: I assent
—-
[2008/06/28 9:11] You: 1b. Any changes to the agenda? I do not see Alexi on line but we can deal with that when we get to item 2
[2008/06/28 9:12] Moon Adamant: i assent
[2008/06/28 9:12] MT Lundquist: assent
[2008/06/28 9:12] ThePrincess Parisi: i already assented
[2008/06/28 9:12] Jon Seattle: yes, since Moon is here it may be good to put the sim finance first – she has to run before long
[2008/06/28 9:12] Jamie Palisades nods and smiles
[2008/06/28 9:12] Moon Adamant: i am really not sure at all how much time i can stay
[2008/06/28 9:12] You: Well, Jon, as she is here and Alexicon is not, that makes sense to me
[2008/06/28 9:13] Jon Seattle: 🙂 nods
[2008/06/28 9:13] You: any objections to that? reversing items 2 & 3?
[2008/06/28 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont mind reverals
[2008/06/28 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: reversals
[2008/06/28 9:13] You: 🙂
—-
[2008/06/28 9:13] You: 1c
[2008/06/28 9:14] You: Other than Moon on Sim 4. any nonRA memebrs planning to speak on a topic today?
[2008/06/28 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i have still not been paid for the guided tour
[2008/06/28 9:14] You: Not hearing any …
[2008/06/28 9:15] Sonja Strom: really?
[2008/06/28 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: really
[2008/06/28 9:15] You: Hm – Prin let’s handle that under 1.f. in a sec
[2008/06/28 9:15] Sonja Strom: wow, that’s been a long time!
[2008/06/28 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/06/28 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: a long long long long time
[2008/06/28 9:15] You: so no 1.c. speakers, OK
[2008/06/28 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: I was not reimbursed for last years cheristmas party either
[2008/06/28 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: I also have a friendly issue with sudane
—-
[2008/06/28 9:15] You: 1d – routine notice, please send me any corrections to the posted transcripts 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: shes been harrassing citixzens
—-
[2008/06/28 9:15] You: 1e
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: in a political agenda way
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: where do we discuss that
[2008/06/28 9:16] Moon Adamant: that+s a serious accusation
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: i have chat
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: notecards
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: and witnesses
[2008/06/28 9:16] You: Any desire to talk about our plans? Prin, can the reimbursement thing and the Sudane thing wait about 90 seconds?
[2008/06/28 9:16] Beathan Vale: harrassing? or reminding that rent is due?
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: yep no worries or hurries
[2008/06/28 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: harrassing beathan
[2008/06/28 9:16] You: kk 🙂 patience, all, please
[2008/06/28 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: she actually told me even that she didnt want a new sim
[2008/06/28 9:17] You: let’s deal with that – in a minute 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and I understand it all now
[2008/06/28 9:17] You: Prin? Can I run the meeting please?
[2008/06/28 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: you asked a question, sorry I answered
[2008/06/28 9:17] You: That would require waiting for a proper time for each item of business
[2008/06/28 9:17] You: we’re briefly on 1e
[2008/06/28 9:17] You: which is schedule
[2008/06/28 9:18] You: and I expect to call a meeting on each of the remaining Saturdays in June & July
[2008/06/28 9:18] You: oops – this is last in June 🙂 make that July
[2008/06/28 9:18] You: next week is July 5 – so – do we want to try to meet then, or not?
[2008/06/28 9:19] You: Big holiday weekend for some
[2008/06/28 9:19] Beathan Vale: I’m unavailable on the 5th
[2008/06/28 9:19] Sonja Strom: I might be unavailable then, not sure yet.
[2008/06/28 9:19] Beathan Vale: but — I’ve been so buried lately my schedule is entirely unpredictable
[2008/06/28 9:19] You: unless someone tells me otherwise, I’d be inclined to call meetings for the 12, 19 and 26 of July then
[2008/06/28 9:20] Sonja Strom: Same for me Beathan
[2008/06/28 9:20] You: of course, if someone knows in advance they cannot come, they can ask their faction to replace them also 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: i never know either, .. but i am raising my hand
[2008/06/28 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie.. may i say something?
[2008/06/28 9:20] You: Please do, yes
[2008/06/28 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: please just call the meetings.. and hope we show and dont worry, cos you have had the most quorum meetings ever
[2008/06/28 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: you are trying too hard.. chill
[2008/06/28 9:21] Beathan Vale: brb
[2008/06/28 9:21] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/06/28 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: you are doing a great job
[2008/06/28 9:21] You: 🙂 I appreciate that Prin – but what about the 5th? I ask because we have people waiting for action from us, so want us to be a litle polite and predictable if we can
[2008/06/28 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: we all do the best we can jamie..
[2008/06/28 9:21] Sonja Strom: I think skipping the 5th would be better.
[2008/06/28 9:22] You: and yes 🙂 I did go to catholic school by the way 😀
[2008/06/28 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: i can do the fifth
[2008/06/28 9:22] You: and Prin? Also, I ask because I think the LRA should consult with the RA about stuff like this 🙂 let’s set a good precedent for the future, this term
[2008/06/28 9:22] Sonja Strom: I can ask for a 7-day vote.
[2008/06/28 9:22] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/06/28 9:23] You: so ? I suggest I uping the absent RA members, and if at least four think they can attend, I will call a meeting for the 5th
[2008/06/28 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i think you misspelled a word sir
[2008/06/28 9:23] You: and in any case we will do 12 19 26 July, and 26th will be our last before the newely elected RA is seated, I think
[2008/06/28 9:23] MT Lundquist: its eith pung
[2008/06/28 9:24] MT Lundquist: or ping
[2008/06/28 9:24] You: 🙂 I am sure I did Prin, I am a horrid typist “ping”
[2008/06/28 9:24] Moon Adamant sighs
[2008/06/28 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: poll
[2008/06/28 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: oh ping as in IM
[2008/06/28 9:24] Sonja Strom notices she tells him to lighten up and then corrects him in a misspelling
[2008/06/28 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i was saying that tongue in cheek
[2008/06/28 9:24] You: mmm – I am not sure what “punging” them would mean, MT – hope that isn’t AU slang for something …
[2008/06/28 9:24] You: I think we are done with 1.e. 🙂
—-
[2008/06/28 9:24] You: 1f
[2008/06/28 9:24] You: consent items
[2008/06/28 9:25] You: I had none .. but 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:25] You: Apparently Prin is not still reimbursed!
[2008/06/28 9:25] You: after what, 3 months?
[2008/06/28 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: no not for any of the three things
[2008/06/28 9:25] MT Lundquist: from latex to a nun
[2008/06/28 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: no jamie this was approved last term, so more like four
[2008/06/28 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont know at least three
[2008/06/28 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont keep track
[2008/06/28 9:26] You: We had a great budget presentation from Sudane a few weeks ago at viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1921 . I encourage all to read it. …. one of the relevant things I learned …
[2008/06/28 9:26] You: .. is that she pays almost nothing unless explicitly authorized by Chancellor, except tier and related land payments
[2008/06/28 9:26] You: .. so for example, stipends to some have stopped
[2008/06/28 9:27] You: .. as she has not got a list of who should be getting them
[2008/06/28 9:27] You: .. so I assume her hangup with paying you is that the Chancellor has not authorized it
[2008/06/28 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: yes well that is clear that its the chancellor i knew that from the beginning
[2008/06/28 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: why isnt it fixed
[2008/06/28 9:28] You: 🙂 so I would like to move that the RA formally ask the chancellor to authorise Sudane to pay Prin for all of her reimbursement requests within 7 days.
[2008/06/28 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: that is seconded
[2008/06/28 9:28] You: Any discussion?
[2008/06/28 9:28] Sonja Strom: This might be off-topic,
[2008/06/28 9:28] You: I’d like us to return to tougher options next week if nothing happens, if this passes:)
[2008/06/28 9:29] Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into ThePrincess’s hand.
[2008/06/28 9:29] You: Sonja?
[2008/06/28 9:29] Sonja Strom: but how does the Chancellor know if the reimbursement requests are legitimate?
[2008/06/28 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: never stopped me
[2008/06/28 9:29] MT Lundquist looks nervous
[2008/06/28 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: thats his job i think
[2008/06/28 9:29] You: 🙂 well Sonja entirely on topic – if he replies that he has considered and rejected it, I guess we will know
[2008/06/28 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: and if we think he is wrong we empeach it
[2008/06/28 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: him
[2008/06/28 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: or her
[2008/06/28 9:30] You: and frankly a lack of action is worse that a rejection
[2008/06/28 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: it is to me
[2008/06/28 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: im pissed
[2008/06/28 9:30] Arun Botha: heya !
[2008/06/28 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: hi arun
[2008/06/28 9:30] MT Lundquist: hi arun
[2008/06/28 9:30] Moon Adamant: hello arun
[2008/06/28 9:30] You: Prin’s right the only “ruler” the laws of CDS gives us, to swat a Chancellor, is to remove that person
[2008/06/28 9:30] Sonja Strom: ok, so maybe we can ask him to “Respond with a Reimbursement or Rejection of a reimbursement request within 7 days of it being made.”
[2008/06/28 9:30] Arun Botha: i always feel ive been summoned to a dressing down at one of these
[2008/06/28 9:30] Arun Botha: lol
[2008/06/28 9:31] You: I accept that as a friendly amendment if no one objects
[2008/06/28 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i accept
[2008/06/28 9:31] MT Lundquist: accepted
[2008/06/28 9:31] You: Oh I dunno Arun, I’m wearing sort of a foppy deal today, maybe its a “dressing up”
[2008/06/28 9:31] MT Lundquist: are we dressing up
[2008/06/28 9:31] Arun Botha: lol
[2008/06/28 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: im keeping jamie humble
[2008/06/28 9:31] MT Lundquist: or down
[2008/06/28 9:32] You: (and please assent to being transcripted if you speak, this is a recorded meeting)
[2008/06/28 9:32] Sonja Strom: are we in a vote?
[2008/06/28 9:32] You: Man, Prin, that’s a tough job
[2008/06/28 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: no shit
[2008/06/28 9:32] You: 🙂 we are now. Are you ready to vote on the amended motion?
[2008/06/28 9:32] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/06/28 9:32] Sonja Strom: yes
[2008/06/28 9:32] You: Members please state your vote. I vote yes
[2008/06/28 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/06/28 9:32] Beathan Vale: aye
[2008/06/28 9:32] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/06/28 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 9:32] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/06/28 9:33] You: Motion passes 4-0-0. I will notify Alexi and Sudane and post to the Forum board. Thanks
[2008/06/28 9:33] MT Lundquist: great
[2008/06/28 9:33] You: end of consent items
[2008/06/28 9:33] Sonja Strom: I do have one other question about this.
[2008/06/28 9:33] You: OK? Sonja?
[2008/06/28 9:33] Sonja Strom: How would it effect existing reimbursement requests.
[2008/06/28 9:34] You: ?
[2008/06/28 9:34] Sonja Strom: Like, if they were made 4 months ago.
[2008/06/28 9:34] Sonja Strom: Would they all be included, retroactively?
[2008/06/28 9:34] You: Sorry, do not understand. Are you saying that there other outstanding requests?
[2008/06/28 9:34] MT Lundquist: i would think that they now all have to be dealt with in 7 days
[2008/06/28 9:35] Sonja Strom: So we will view it as that all existing requests will have to be responded to within 7 days of when we tell him?
[2008/06/28 9:35] MT Lundquist: thats what i think
[2008/06/28 9:35] Sonja Strom: me too
[2008/06/28 9:35] You: hmmm – Sonja, we have not yet created such a rule generally
[2008/06/28 9:36] Sonja Strom: So, for it to be in effect for TP’s requests, should she re-file them with the Chancellor?
[2008/06/28 9:36] You: the reason I asked Sudane to explain some of these rules – which is all transcripted – is so that we could better understand
[2008/06/28 9:36] You: but for now
[2008/06/28 9:37] You: I think we have, by an RA motion, asked the Chancellor to respond on Prin’s long-overdue requests
[2008/06/28 9:37] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/06/28 9:38] Sonja Strom: I just wanted to be sure.
[2008/06/28 9:38] You: If there are others, I hope someone will tell us … and Alexicon
[2008/06/28 9:38] You: next item 🙂
—-
[2008/06/28 9:38] You: We agreed to switch items 3 and 2
[2008/06/28 9:38] You: so we are on 3
[2008/06/28 9:38] You: Sim 4 Locus Amoenus
[2008/06/28 9:38] Moon Adamant nods
[2008/06/28 9:38] You: Let me remind you that we DID approve map and stats
[2008/06/28 9:39] You: but NOT land prices or the Linden purchase
[2008/06/28 9:39] Moon Adamant: AND covenants
[2008/06/28 9:39] You: oo right we did covenants too 🙂 thanks Moon
[2008/06/28 9:39] You: here is where all that can be found in our transcripts: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1908
[2008/06/28 9:40] You: so
[2008/06/28 9:40] You: RA has 3 options 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:40] You: 1. approve the pricing offered at the 7 June meeting, and the sim purchase
[2008/06/28 9:40] You: 2. approve something else
[2008/06/28 9:40] You: or 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:41] You: 3. Decline to act and thereby PERMIT the chancellor to proceed without us
[2008/06/28 9:41] You: I gave this some thought, and …
[2008/06/28 9:42] You: it looks like, under our laws, the Chancellor may not be able to approve covenants for land without the RA…
[2008/06/28 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed
[2008/06/28 9:42] You: but he CAN authorize the sim purchase
[2008/06/28 9:42] You: 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:42] Sonja Strom: Hi Alexicon
[2008/06/28 9:42] Alexicon Kurka: hi everyone
[2008/06/28 9:42] You: and may even have the power to set land prices if we do not 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:42] Moon Adamant: hi Alex 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:42] MT Lundquist: hi alex
[2008/06/28 9:43] Jon Seattle: Hi Alex 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: hello chancellor sir
[2008/06/28 9:43] Alexicon Kurka: I just mentioned you mentioning me
[2008/06/28 9:43] You: Hello Alexi. We moved on to land price issues in your absence
[2008/06/28 9:43] Alexicon Kurka: sure
[2008/06/28 9:44] You: 🙂 if you are OK for a little while to stay, let’s stay on the Sim 4 price issues
[2008/06/28 9:44] MT Lundquist: hi bj
[2008/06/28 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: im OK
[2008/06/28 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: hi bj
[2008/06/28 9:44] Moon Adamant: hi Bjerkel 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:44] Alexicon Kurka: yes I will stay
[2008/06/28 9:44] Bjerkel Eerie: hi all
[2008/06/28 9:44] Sonja Strom: Hi Bjerkel
[2008/06/28 9:44] Alexicon Kurka: hi Bjerkel
[2008/06/28 9:44] You: (hello all – newcomers please assent to being recorded if you speak)
[2008/06/28 9:44] Jon Seattle: Hi Bjerkel 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:45] You: SO
[2008/06/28 9:45] Bjerkel Eerie: hellow jon
[2008/06/28 9:45] Alexicon Kurka: was that just in chat Jamie?
[2008/06/28 9:45] You: any RA members wish to make a motion, or shall we have a brief Sim 4 status report from Moon, as she’s been able to join us briefly
[2008/06/28 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: lets hear from moon
[2008/06/28 9:46] You: ( yes, Alexi, just say “I assent’ 🙂 )
[2008/06/28 9:46] You: Moon? Update for us?
[2008/06/28 9:46] Alexicon Kurka: I assent
[2008/06/28 9:46] Moon Adamant: Well, update is that we are still waiting for this RA – or Chancellor, as you pointed out –
[2008/06/28 9:47] Moon Adamant: do discuss and define the pricing of land and the date of the buying of the sim
[2008/06/28 9:47] Moon Adamant: everything else has been approved by this RA
[2008/06/28 9:48] Moon Adamant: we are also preparing a budget for construction that we will present the Chancellor
[2008/06/28 9:50] You: Finished, Moon?
[2008/06/28 9:51] Moon Adamant: yes, done
[2008/06/28 9:51] Beathan Vale: Is the guild able to take land donations to create a sandbox to pre-build major buildings?
[2008/06/28 9:51] Moon Adamant: at the moment, we are not envisaging that
[2008/06/28 9:51] Moon Adamant: since we would have difficulty to pay the tier
[2008/06/28 9:51] You: hmmmm well BV they do a lot of aerial work
[2008/06/28 9:52] Beathan Vale: yes — but I recall that the monastery was prebuilt (built before sim purchase) and it worked out well —
[2008/06/28 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: whats with the 5k usd in the bank?
[2008/06/28 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean where is the profit from CDS?
[2008/06/28 9:52] Moon Adamant: and generally, if a public building is needed, we build it on its parcel directly
[2008/06/28 9:52] You: Ah
[2008/06/28 9:53] You: let’s finish BV’s inqury then pursue Prin’s point
[2008/06/28 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: i think we need an audit and a second set of eyes before we spend another dime
[2008/06/28 9:53] You: I guess Moon is saying, “not needed”, Beathan
[2008/06/28 9:53] You: so I will deem your Q finished, hm?
[2008/06/28 9:53] Beathan Vale: I think that there are multiple choke points to expansion — and if we remove any of them, we would have a better feeling of progress
[2008/06/28 9:53] You: Like what, Beathan?
[2008/06/28 9:54] Moon Adamant: well, Jamie, maybe in the future we can envisage that, as our financial dep manages our finances
[2008/06/28 9:54] Moon Adamant: atm, we prefer to gather some overhead
[2008/06/28 9:54] Beathan Vale: well — the process is complicated – with multiple steps — and it is interminable if those steps are taken linearly, but if we can have parallel (build on sandboxes while working out purchase and covenant details, for instance) I think that the process would be faster and better
[2008/06/28 9:55] Moon Adamant: well, Beathan
[2008/06/28 9:55] Beathan Vale: but the Guild’s cash flow is the factor
[2008/06/28 9:55] Beathan Vale: so …
[2008/06/28 9:55] Alexicon Kurka: but we are allowing skyboxes now to all new sims, don’t we, that’s a way to remove the building in place obstacles
[2008/06/28 9:55] Moon Adamant: Guild isn’t infinteley elastic
[2008/06/28 9:55] Beathan Vale: Alex — no — I mean building before the sim is purchased
[2008/06/28 9:55] Moon Adamant: i mean, we only can have some dozen projects at each time
[2008/06/28 9:55] You: well, let’s keep this moving along, hmn? Beathan, do you have an action or proposal about that to make at this time?
[2008/06/28 9:55] Beathan Vale: true
[2008/06/28 9:55] Beathan Vale: no — just an inquiry
[2008/06/28 9:56] Beathan Vale: I am planning to cancel an alt with substantial ML holdings
[2008/06/28 9:56] You: “ML”?
[2008/06/28 9:56] Beathan Vale: mainland
[2008/06/28 9:56] You: ah OK let’s tlk about that but postmeeting
[2008/06/28 9:57] You: so Prin – your turn – audit?
[2008/06/28 9:57] Beathan Vale: prob can’t stay that long … but OK
[2008/06/28 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we get an audit and account for the money before we go any further.. i am very concerned
[2008/06/28 9:57] Moon Adamant: what on?
[2008/06/28 9:57] You: Just for clarity, does that mean, RA action would prohibit sim purchase
[2008/06/28 9:57] Alexicon Kurka: audit whom, I think the main bottleneck is that we have no RL existance as organisation
[2008/06/28 9:57] You: ?
[2008/06/28 9:57] Moon Adamant: and what does it concern sim gfinances?
[2008/06/28 9:58] You: let’s let her get her motion statd 🙂
[2008/06/28 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: that the money in cds is not being tracked properly .. it does mean we need to get the financial house in order before we ezpand more
[2008/06/28 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i have been told by sudane there is concern about the process for collecting tier now
[2008/06/28 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: if we have a new sim, more residents
[2008/06/28 9:58] Moon Adamant: i think i heard that a substatntial report on budget had been made some RAs ago….
[2008/06/28 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: also i wanna know where the 5k is and get some accountability fior more than one purson
[2008/06/28 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: person
[2008/06/28 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: its in adequate
[2008/06/28 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: inadequate in my opinion
[2008/06/28 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: we need a full audit, where is the 5k
[2008/06/28 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: who has right to it
[2008/06/28 9:59] Moon Adamant: REALLY?
[2008/06/28 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: who know, and how is it invested
[2008/06/28 9:59] You: OK, so Prin I take that as a yes – a motion to require some third party audit or (similar outside review) to CDS finances as a condition to sim purchase? Just wanting to make sure we have it clear
[2008/06/28 10:00] You: can you confirm or correct that for me, Prin?
[2008/06/28 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we have a full financial audit before we go any further, yes jamie
[2008/06/28 10:00] ThePrincess Parisi: yes you are correct
[2008/06/28 10:00] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/06/28 10:00] You: (Hi Symo, welcome, please say “I assent” if you speak, as we are recording)
[2008/06/28 10:01] Moon Adamant: hi Symo 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:01] Symo Kurka: ok i assent
[2008/06/28 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: as salzie wanted …. months ago, we dont have the structure in cds to grow now, we need to get that set up .. like jon said………….we need to be a organization, not owned by one person
[2008/06/28 10:01] You: OK. Moved and seconded. Discussion? RA members first please?
[2008/06/28 10:01] Jon Seattle: Hi Symo 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: hi symo
[2008/06/28 10:01] Beathan Vale: I don’t like the idea of holding up projects pending an audit, but I think that we should direct the chancellor to audit or arrange for an audit, to address concerns, highlight areas where Sudane could use assistance, and put this to rest
[2008/06/28 10:01] MT Lundquist: hi symo
[2008/06/28 10:01] Sonja Strom: As I understand it, the CDS is not owned by one person.
[2008/06/28 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: the chancellor audit…hahaha
[2008/06/28 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja you are wrong
[2008/06/28 10:01] ThePrincess Parisi: we have all been told that but we have been lied to
[2008/06/28 10:02] Sonja Strom: It is “owned” by one avatar because Linden Lab requires one owner.
[2008/06/28 10:02] Moon Adamant raises one hand
[2008/06/28 10:02] Sonja Strom: But that avatar is accessed by different people, and is not Sudane.
[2008/06/28 10:02] Alexicon Kurka: I really think the main point is to first establish an RL entity for the CDS
[2008/06/28 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: rudeen?
[2008/06/28 10:02] Sonja Strom: Of course I am talking about Rudeen, to be clear.
[2008/06/28 10:02] Sonja Strom: yes
[2008/06/28 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: we need to be an entity not owned by a person.. well sudane / rudeen who ever.. they dont give me the info necessary to know that we are viable beyond a person’s whim and we are irresponsible to continue to grow this way on myth
[2008/06/28 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: we need more transparency
[2008/06/28 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: who are those ppl sonja? do you know
[2008/06/28 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont
[2008/06/28 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: i have reasons to doubt …. many many
[2008/06/28 10:04] Beathan Vale: we get good monthly financials — I would be happy to see them third-party checked biyearly or something — but I don’t think there is a problem with communication
[2008/06/28 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: thats a move in the right direction
[2008/06/28 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: what about being a legal entity on top of it
[2008/06/28 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: we got a bunch of self proclaimed lawyers
[2008/06/28 10:05] Moon Adamant raises her hand again
[2008/06/28 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: and being a non profit is a issue
[2008/06/28 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: ???
[2008/06/28 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: gimme a break?
[2008/06/28 10:05] Beathan Vale: I think we could easily draft and file the paperwork to be a nonprofit
[2008/06/28 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah so why dont we do it
[2008/06/28 10:05] Moon Adamant: i think we were discussing sim finances….
[2008/06/28 10:05] You: I am hearing some agreement in the room about more outside review. Can we get comments from others please?
[2008/06/28 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: its all the same issue
[2008/06/28 10:05] Moon Adamant: please?
[2008/06/28 10:06] You: Moon? Alexi? anyone else?
[2008/06/28 10:06] Moon Adamant: may I?
[2008/06/28 10:06] Beathan Vale: well — there have been concerns about choice of location, choice of law, whether it would make us “American”
[2008/06/28 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: yes moon
[2008/06/28 10:06] MT Lundquist: i would support a non profit
[2008/06/28 10:06] Moon Adamant: the
[2008/06/28 10:06] Moon Adamant: IM HERE TO DISCUSSIS SIM FINANCES
[2008/06/28 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: yes … and i made a motion moon
[2008/06/28 10:06] Moon Adamant: sorry, laptop keyboard
[2008/06/28 10:06] Moon Adamant: i am sorry, i am speaking
[2008/06/28 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: that we need to get the finances fixed before we move on
[2008/06/28 10:06] Jon Seattle: Sorry, folks I must run. Thanks!
[2008/06/28 10:06] You: MT, BV, Prin. Creating an entity is not in the motion before us. Can we discuss audit first? and whether it should be a condition to sim purchse?
[2008/06/28 10:07] Moon Adamant: what i would like to point out is
[2008/06/28 10:07] Beathan Vale: again — I would rather address the audit as a separate issue – -not as a rider on sim financing
[2008/06/28 10:07] Moon Adamant: from our legislation, we have several times the money needed to expand
[2008/06/28 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: supposedly
[2008/06/28 10:07] Moon Adamant: the RA is of course sovereign to ASK FOR THE AUDITS IT WANTS
[2008/06/28 10:08] Beathan Vale: (we have too many lawyers — we need an accountant — but do accountants bother with SL?)
[2008/06/28 10:08] Moon Adamant: but it should not delay the buying of a sim when there’s money enough by our own laws to do it
[2008/06/28 10:08] Beathan Vale: I agree with Moon
[2008/06/28 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: mt and i both have degrees in accounting
[2008/06/28 10:08] Moon Adamant: really sorry for my typos, everyone
[2008/06/28 10:09] MT Lundquist: thats given it away
[2008/06/28 10:09] You: …
[2008/06/28 10:09] You: May I ask all to speak only to the motion for now
[2008/06/28 10:09] You: Prin and MT have spoken for it, Beathan against
[2008/06/28 10:09] Beathan Vale: OK — then we should set up a special RA committee — of MT and TP — to audit the accounts, they should be given full access to do so and full cooperation from the Executive, and report back findings at last session
[2008/06/28 10:09] You: Personally
[2008/06/28 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: no i dont wanna audit anything
[2008/06/28 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: not personally
[2008/06/28 10:10] Moon Adamant: dunno why…. if after all you’re a specialist…
[2008/06/28 10:10] Sonja Strom: Are we worried that not enough money is in the accounts?
[2008/06/28 10:10] You: hmmm
[2008/06/28 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: we are concerned that there is no one “watching”
[2008/06/28 10:10] Moon Adamant: thus i say
[2008/06/28 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: we are trusting one person, though a saint, with too much
[2008/06/28 10:10] Moon Adamant: watch what you want
[2008/06/28 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: we are a farce
[2008/06/28 10:11] Bjerkel Eerie: “WE” who is “WE” princess?
[2008/06/28 10:11] Moon Adamant: but don’t delay the spending of money when our laws permit the spending
[2008/06/28 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: we is .. CDS
[2008/06/28 10:11] You: I plan to vote against this motion, and if it fails, to make a new one AFTER FINISHING THE OTHER AGENDA ITEMS about an audit
[2008/06/28 10:11] Symo Kurka: we get regular financial reports… how many of you read them???
[2008/06/28 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: symo these are never verified by outside parties
[2008/06/28 10:11] Sonja Strom: I used to, but they always seemed very accurate and honest to me.
[2008/06/28 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: who has seen the bank statement
[2008/06/28 10:12] You: and yes, Prin, if the RA fails to act in a careful civil manner to give oversight it is not doing its job 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:12] ThePrincess Parisi: vote
[2008/06/28 10:12] You: Is there any more discussion needed on Prin’s motion? or are you ready to vote? (I am)
[2008/06/28 10:12] MT Lundquist: me too
[2008/06/28 10:12] Jamie Palisades looks around ..?
[2008/06/28 10:12] Beathan Vale: rdy
[2008/06/28 10:13] Sonja Strom: k
[2008/06/28 10:13] You: Motion is, as set out above, audit before sim purchase and other new expenses
[2008/06/28 10:13] You: Members please state your vote. I vote no
[2008/06/28 10:13] Beathan Vale: no
[2008/06/28 10:13] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/06/28 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 10:13] Sonja Strom: nay
[2008/06/28 10:14] You: Before jumping to conclusions – did Gwyn request a 7 day for this?
[2008/06/28 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: she didnt ask me
[2008/06/28 10:14] Beathan Vale: I have to run — problematic dogs …
[2008/06/28 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: bye bv
[2008/06/28 10:14] Beathan Vale: sorry
[2008/06/28 10:14] MT Lundquist: bye
[2008/06/28 10:14] Sonja Strom: ok, bye Beathan
[2008/06/28 10:14] Alexicon Kurka: bye beathan
[2008/06/28 10:15] You: Let’s say, Motion fails 2-3-0 but *possible* subject to 7 day if Gwyneth requested it – have to check her posts.
[2008/06/28 10:15] Moon Adamant: bye Beathan 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:15] You: Ta BV
[2008/06/28 10:15] You: Are there are other motions about the sim purchase? or pricing
[2008/06/28 10:15] You: if not we can move on to item 2, Chancellor Q&A
[2008/06/28 10:15] Jamie Palisades looks around …?
[2008/06/28 10:16] Moon Adamant: Jamie, sorry
[2008/06/28 10:16] You: ?
[2008/06/28 10:16] Moon Adamant: what is then decided about the issue?
[2008/06/28 10:16] You: yes Moon?
[2008/06/28 10:17] Moon Adamant: since I’ll have to report too before the Guild tomorrow
[2008/06/28 10:17] You: RA has not acted. I have expressed my view that the Chancellor is free to act without us.
[2008/06/28 10:17] Moon Adamant: ok
[2008/06/28 10:17] You: Any more comments we want to pass along to Guild?
[2008/06/28 10:17] Symo Kurka: i kindly remind the RA that we’ve been under strong pressure on planning timing
[2008/06/28 10:17] Moon Adamant: then I will get in contact later with chancellor
[2008/06/28 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/06/28 10:17] Symo Kurka: and fully respected that
[2008/06/28 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: pressure to finish so no new citizens can be in before the election?
[2008/06/28 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/06/28 10:18] Symo Kurka: lol???
[2008/06/28 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: by csdf and sudane herself
[2008/06/28 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi has a conspiracy theory
[2008/06/28 10:18] Symo Kurka: ui move
[2008/06/28 10:18] Moon Adamant: that you have a conspiracy theory it’s clear
[2008/06/28 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: we were stalled until it was too late now yu push us
[2008/06/28 10:19] Symo Kurka: we do not push anybody
[2008/06/28 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: k
[2008/06/28 10:19] Moon Adamant: the transcripts of RA and Guild do tell quite another story Princess
[2008/06/28 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/06/28 10:19] Moon Adamant: but of course, believe in what you want
[2008/06/28 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: the transcripts of three meetings to make a logo while the sims sat
[2008/06/28 10:19] Symo Kurka: and SAY what you want, we are used to it
[2008/06/28 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: or another one?
[2008/06/28 10:20] You: um for what it is worth, I do not believe any Sim 4 citizen could in any way vote in the next election — and that this has been true for at least 3 weeks — the RA’s last reasonable chance to move Sim4 along in “time for” the elections was its 7 June meeting, at which some of us rejected the approval proposals 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: yes of course you are correct jamie
—-
[2008/06/28 10:20] You: agenda item 2 then
[2008/06/28 10:20] You: 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:21] You: Chancellor Question Time – and thanks for coming, Alexi
[2008/06/28 10:21] Moon Adamant: ok, thnk you all
[2008/06/28 10:21] Moon Adamant bows before the RA
[2008/06/28 10:21] You: Alexi, any comments you wish to make first?
[2008/06/28 10:21] You: (Thank you for coming Moon)
[2008/06/28 10:21] Alexicon Kurka: Well I can give you a short update on the webportal if you want
[2008/06/28 10:22] You: love to hear it
[2008/06/28 10:22] Alexicon Kurka: we have a main structure setup made by Arria and a first draft design made by Mizou
[2008/06/28 10:22] Alexicon Kurka: we started with the technical implementation as well
[2008/06/28 10:22] Alexicon Kurka: I do the tech work myself
[2008/06/28 10:23] Alexicon Kurka: there is still no definite hosting account as (the bottlneck) there is no RL person to sign an RL contract on behalf of the CDS
[2008/06/28 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: that is another reason we need to be an entity
[2008/06/28 10:24] Alexicon Kurka: to remove this obstacle and be able to deliver in my term I have provided a temporarily available account so that the results are visible soon
[2008/06/28 10:24] Alexicon Kurka: as soon as the hosting is arranged we can move everything there
[2008/06/28 10:25] Alexicon Kurka: I provide you here with the url
[2008/06/28 10:25] Alexicon Kurka: http://81.26.215.133/index.php?id=31
[2008/06/28 10:25] Alexicon Kurka: so you can check our status
[2008/06/28 10:25] Alexicon Kurka: content will be entered by Arria in July
[2008/06/28 10:26] Alexicon Kurka: design and templating will be finalised the coming two weeks
[2008/06/28 10:26] You: sounds good. Alex, I have two Qs about that.
[2008/06/28 10:26] Alexicon Kurka: yes plz
[2008/06/28 10:26] You: One is, will this be a replacement for all of the slcds.info ? or part of it?
[2008/06/28 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: its pretty
[2008/06/28 10:27] Alexicon Kurka: it is our understanding that as soon as the content is been transfered to the new environment the old sites will become obsolute
[2008/06/28 10:27] Alexicon Kurka: but that will be done in fases
[2008/06/28 10:27] Alexicon Kurka: so the forum and the wiki will be last
[2008/06/28 10:27] Alexicon Kurka: while general info first
[2008/06/28 10:27] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/06/28 10:28] You: hmm – there is a LOT of content on the forum bulletin boards
[2008/06/28 10:28] Alexicon Kurka: the portal provides sub-sites to each sim as well as a central information structure
[2008/06/28 10:28] Alexicon Kurka: We are looking for automatic parsing to fetch the forums
[2008/06/28 10:28] Alexicon Kurka: no retyping off course
[2008/06/28 10:29] Alexicon Kurka: but there is not a real reason to cease with the forum as it works well
[2008/06/28 10:29] You: do we have agreement from SC (who moderates) and Beta Technologies (who owns that domain), or is that needed?
[2008/06/28 10:29] Alexicon Kurka: it is the general information that is messy
[2008/06/28 10:29] Alexicon Kurka: no agreements with SC, I am in close contact with Gwyn (Beta)
—-
[2008/06/28 10:31] You: OK. Thanks. Second Q. You said “no person can be the
contract signer or domain owner” for CDS. Hmmm.
[2008/06/28 10:31] You: Does this mean you agree with Prin that we need to make a corporation or something like it?
[2008/06/28 10:31] Alexicon Kurka: yes it is a really bottleneck on more fronts
[2008/06/28 10:31] Alexicon Kurka: I think we are more a non profit
[2008/06/28 10:32] Alexicon Kurka: but I agree we need an RL entity
[2008/06/28 10:32] MT Lundquist: i agree
[2008/06/28 10:32] You: hm – ok that is helpful to know
[2008/06/28 10:32] You: any more chat on that point maybe? For now?
[2008/06/28 10:33] Bjerkel Eerie: is anyone going to be wiling to meet in the legally required manner to do the legal business of a NFP or a Corporation???
[2008/06/28 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i hope.. boards and such
[2008/06/28 10:33] Alexicon Kurka: do you mean meeting physically rl?
[2008/06/28 10:34] Bjerkel Eerie: who is going to pay the travel expenses of meeting
[2008/06/28 10:34] You: How do we move forward on exploring this?
[2008/06/28 10:34] Sonja Strom: TP, are you hosting us in RL?
[2008/06/28 10:34] Alexicon Kurka: I do a lot of legal business all around the world without seeing the persons at all
[2008/06/28 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: its not required, many sl things are
[2008/06/28 10:34] Alexicon Kurka: and I am a tiny organisation
[2008/06/28 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: exactly alexicon
[2008/06/28 10:34] You: Bj, there are some structures that require phys meetings, and some do not 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: we need a commission or somthing
[2008/06/28 10:34] Bjerkel Eerie: how many boards do you serve on
[2008/06/28 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: bj are you saying its not possible?
[2008/06/28 10:36] You: Prin, I think you are right. If Alex has no objection, maybe we can do a quick motion to create a commission of say 2 months duration? I’d be happy to chair that
[2008/06/28 10:36] Alexicon Kurka: no objections
[2008/06/28 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/06/28 10:36] You: 🙂 what do the RA members think?
[2008/06/28 10:36] Bjerkel Eerie: nope just that the cost of creating a rl corporation for profit or NFP will in the end be move time consuming and costly than buying a new sim
[2008/06/28 10:37] Bjerkel Eerie: more time…
[2008/06/28 10:37] You: Fair point BJ – so we will need to confirm that
[2008/06/28 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: we have to look at long term
[2008/06/28 10:37] You: *may* be worth the bother, or not.
[2008/06/28 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: and what is good for the future not just immediate needs
[2008/06/28 10:37] You: So we’ll see.
[2008/06/28 10:38] Alexicon Kurka: I agree BJ, I intend to approve moving on with the next sim, by the way just as we are now 🙂 But we have to look at the future indeed
[2008/06/28 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: i hope you will be on the committee
[2008/06/28 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: we need you
[2008/06/28 10:38] You: Motion and second to create a commission to report to RA by, let’s say, Sept 1, with me as chair, and usual open membership rules, on “CDS need for corporate structuire if any”
[2008/06/28 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 10:38] You: I’d like to see Bjerkel there too 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:38] You: Ready for a vote? I suspect so and vote yes
[2008/06/28 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 10:39] You: MT? Sonja? Vote on ‘possible corporation’ commission?
[2008/06/28 10:39] Sonja Strom: nay
[2008/06/28 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: mt votes aye
[2008/06/28 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: hes afk
[2008/06/28 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: why sonja?
[2008/06/28 10:39] Sonja Strom: I don’t think it is needed.
[2008/06/28 10:40] Bjerkel Eerie: you cant vote for MT PP!
[2008/06/28 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i know
[2008/06/28 10:40] You: DPU have any views they wish to express? As you’ve been silent
[2008/06/28 10:40] You: I will wait a moment for MT. Will give Sonja a chance to comment if she wishes, before he votes 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i have talked to fr and dnate and they are for it
[2008/06/28 10:40] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/06/28 10:41] Sonja Strom: I am not in a position to speak for the faction really, but my personal view, and as a member of the RA, is that this conversation is a bit out of place, and getting ahead of the actual situation at hand.
[2008/06/28 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja doesnt understand the motion
[2008/06/28 10:41] Sonja Strom: thanks
[2008/06/28 10:41] You: I note the motion passed 3-1-0, but let’s hear Sonja’s comments if she has more, hm?
[2008/06/28 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: it is simply to have a commission to discuss the need for CDS to become a legal entity at some point
[2008/06/28 10:42] You: (and Sonja we only are voting to research it, not to do it yet)
[2008/06/28 10:42] Sonja Strom: I think we can do that, but this is not the time for it.
[2008/06/28 10:42] Sonja Strom: We have other things that we are working on (or should be) that are unfinished.
[2008/06/28 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: like what
[2008/06/28 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: im worried
[2008/06/28 10:43] You: ah 🙂 Sonja, I suggested a time rule that will bring it to the next RA for them to handle it as they see fit 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:43] Sonja Strom: ok, you can do what you want, but you asked what my view was.
[2008/06/28 10:44] Sonja Strom: I think a new commission for this subject is not necessary at this point.
[2008/06/28 10:44] Sonja Strom: If we want information, we can just have someone look into it and make a report.
[2008/06/28 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: thats what a commission is
[2008/06/28 10:45] Jamie Palisades nods – we have too many, I agree 🙂 I will see if I can make this one work a little better than some of the others I have seen. But I appreciate your constructive criticism, Sonja.
[2008/06/28 10:45] Alexicon Kurka: so what else do you want to know from the chancellor?
—-
[2008/06/28 10:41] You: I note the motion passed 3-1-0, but let’s hear Sonja’s comments if she has more, hm?
[2008/06/28 10:45] You: Q&A for Alexicon?
[2008/06/28 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: wheres my money for the guided tour
[2008/06/28 10:45] MT Lundquist: perhaps you could be more direct prin
[2008/06/28 10:46] Alexicon Kurka: last time we talked we agreed that it would be better to let it bought directly by Sudane or Aleasi (
[2008/06/28 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/06/28 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: thats insane
[2008/06/28 10:46] Alexicon Kurka: as I didn’t hear anything from you I supposed it was fixed
[2008/06/28 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/06/28 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: what ever
[2008/06/28 10:46] Alexicon Kurka: please
[2008/06/28 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: you didnt hear anything from me? or anyone else about this
[2008/06/28 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: and why in gods name would sudane, who is supposed to be only a puppet or something, own our tour
[2008/06/28 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: but your decision not to give me the money the RA authorized stands i suppose
[2008/06/28 10:47] Alexicon Kurka: as it concerns collective property, we agreed that it is better to treat it like that, and let either the archivist or the estate manager to own it
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: did you give them the money?
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: and direct them to buy it
[2008/06/28 10:48] Bjerkel Eerie: how much money is at issue here?
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: or what i was supposed to do that?
[2008/06/28 10:48] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: a measly 7k that i make in half the day
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: i
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: i was supposed to tell aliasi to buy something
[2008/06/28 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: and how was i supposed to get the money to them?
[2008/06/28 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: the RA directed me to purchase it
[2008/06/28 10:49] Alexicon Kurka: it’s your project I only facilitate you, I am really sorry it not done yet. Sudane HAS the money
[2008/06/28 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: it was in the budget, fine if i dont do it,
[2008/06/28 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: but if you change the RAs vote
[2008/06/28 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: which you did
[2008/06/28 10:49] You: OK, Sister Prin, let’s stay polite – but I have to agree, as I thought this request was made a loooooong time ago. Alexicon, I was told by Sudane that she never heard that you authorized Prin’s reimbursement. So we have passed a motion here to ask you to officially approve or reject it by next Saturday. (This was before you came, this morning.)
[2008/06/28 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: then you need to fix it
[2008/06/28 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: it was jamie, i am just so fricken confused
[2008/06/28 10:50] You: agreed Prin
[2008/06/28 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: I don’t really care it’s just a total joke
[2008/06/28 10:50] You: Alex, to be specfic: have you been asked to reimburse this?
[2008/06/28 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: so the RA approved a budget item, i am told aliasi should buy it not who the RA said, and then its up to me to direct a person to money
[2008/06/28 10:50] Alexicon Kurka: OK to be clear: I will ask Sudane to buy whatever TP ask her, right?
[2008/06/28 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: Alexicon Kurka: last time we talked we agreed that it would be better to let it bought directly by Sudane or Aliasi
[2008/06/28 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: the point is simply we have no process that anyone seems to understand who needs to
[2008/06/28 10:51] You: Hmm, well, if she already has bought it — I guess you have to buy it … from Prin, yes?
[2008/06/28 10:51] Alexicon Kurka: I did mention the subject to Sudane, though I never gave her any explicit orders
[2008/06/28 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: who has to buy it?
[2008/06/28 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: and how does he override our vote?
[2008/06/28 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: can he do that
[2008/06/28 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont care if he can?
[2008/06/28 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: i am just curious
[2008/06/28 10:52] You: well that’s a good Q prin
[2008/06/28 10:52] You: here is what I think is the case
[2008/06/28 10:53] You: CDS law gives the chancellor a heck of a lot of power
[2008/06/28 10:53] You: and the RA has not chosen to constrain it much
[2008/06/28 10:53] You: and this includes any process for approving expenditures 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:54] You: that’s why I asked for a presentation from Sudane a few weeks ago on how expenses actualy work: [see] /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1921
[2008/06/28 10:54] You: any other questions on this item?
[2008/06/28 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: well the process is either really bad, or not circulated
[2008/06/28 10:54] You: 🙂 I entirely agree
[2008/06/28 10:54] Alexicon Kurka: 😉
[2008/06/28 10:54] MT Lundquist: bj you dont have to stand in the corner
[2008/06/28 10:55] You: Other Qs?
[2008/06/28 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: in my face and ill eject you
[2008/06/28 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi tickles bj
[2008/06/28 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: what are you doing?
[2008/06/28 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: get in
—-
[2008/06/28 10:57] Alexicon Kurka: I have a question myself: what is the status of the commerce committee?
[2008/06/28 10:57] You: 🙂
[2008/06/28 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: its been done a long time
[2008/06/28 10:57] MT Lundquist: the report has been made to the ra
[2008/06/28 10:57] MT Lundquist: i missed the last view meetings
[2008/06/28 10:57] You: We are waiting for someone to come make a mnotionto approve it, I think
[2008/06/28 10:57] MT Lundquist: of ra
[2008/06/28 10:57] Alexicon Kurka: is it publicly available?
[2008/06/28 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: did we ever vote
[2008/06/28 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/06/28 10:58] You: and Alexi, when we last discussed it, there was one controversial part, so I think it will be a long discussion
[2008/06/28 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i move that we approve it
[2008/06/28 10:58] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/06/28 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: lol he rewrote that part
[2008/06/28 10:58] You: 🙂 that’s efficient
[2008/06/28 10:58] You: can we get the URI?
[2008/06/28 10:58] MT Lundquist: ok just a sec
[2008/06/28 10:58] You: and since this is Alexi’s report, Alexi, do you mind if we divert to take that action?
[2008/06/28 10:58] Alexicon Kurka: np
[2008/06/28 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: he’s looking for it
[2008/06/28 10:59] You: It is not on the agenda but the RA has the right to amend that 🙂 I will take this as a consensual amendment
[2008/06/28 10:59] Alexicon Kurka: sure
[2008/06/28 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: the RA has rights? omg no no no !
[2008/06/28 10:59] You: Sonja? You OK with where we are procedurally?
[2008/06/28 10:59] You: haha
[2008/06/28 10:59] You: a few
[2008/06/28 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: do you like this hair? im looking for some more
[2008/06/28 11:00] You: I am digging for the URI also
[2008/06/28 11:00] MT Lundquist: /viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p11378
[2008/06/28 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: mt found it
[2008/06/28 11:00] Alexicon Kurka: thanks mt
[2008/06/28 11:01] You: ah OK – to be clear – this is the 31 May revision by MT of the Commerce Commission final report legislation
[2008/06/28 11:01] You: May I just metion that it now says that a ‘noncommercial’ plot pays more rent
[2008/06/28 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: he took out the part that a statue of me goes in the forum
[2008/06/28 11:02] You: if it’s supposed to be commercial
[2008/06/28 11:02] MT Lundquist: yes 31st may
[2008/06/28 11:02] You: Alexi, any comment on this one?
[2008/06/28 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: where does it say that
[2008/06/28 11:02] MT Lundquist: no
[2008/06/28 11:02] You: Prin, it’s in the paragraph immediately aboce the line “misc. recommendations”
[2008/06/28 11:03] MT Lundquist: it says a plot that is used for non commercial activity
[2008/06/28 11:03] MT Lundquist: #ie a commercial plot
[2008/06/28 11:03] Alexicon Kurka: it’s true that non commercial plots play more tier, but most commercial plots out there are rentals
[2008/06/28 11:03] Alexicon Kurka: not on cds we have chosen not to rent
[2008/06/28 11:03] You: I said it badly though sorry
[2008/06/28 11:03] You: what i mean is IF a lot IS commrcial BUT the user is not BEING commercial
[2008/06/28 11:03] You: they pay double rent to CDS .. tier, rent, whatever we call the monthly land payments to CEDS via the Treasurer’s alt
[2008/06/28 11:03] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/06/28 11:03] MT Lundquist: it was to move away from the issue of taking land
[2008/06/28 11:04] MT Lundquist: but to put some sanction on abuse of covenent
[2008/06/28 11:04] Alexicon Kurka: Well, myself I think if a commercial plot is not used as such, we could reconsider it’s classification after some time, but it is procedurally complex
[2008/06/28 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: beathan said we should fine them
[2008/06/28 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: but first help them
[2008/06/28 11:05] MT Lundquist: and i followed beathans lead
[2008/06/28 11:05] You: MT? Is the land that IS commercial designated as such already? Or will the chancellor or someone need to explicitly zone it, after this, to make this work?
[2008/06/28 11:05] MT Lundquist: some land is zoned commercial
[2008/06/28 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: its already zoned
[2008/06/28 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: basically its just more consequences and clarifying the covenents
[2008/06/28 11:06] You: ok 🙂 sorry I am ignorant. How? How would a citizen know if ther plot is one of those?
[2008/06/28 11:06] MT Lundquist: if we dont do this
[2008/06/28 11:06] MT Lundquist: then there are no teeth to con=venents
[2008/06/28 11:06] MT Lundquist: the RA can decide that of course
[2008/06/28 11:06] MT Lundquist: but then covenents would be meaningless
[2008/06/28 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: god forbid roman bathhouses
[2008/06/28 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: and orgy houses
[2008/06/28 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: rooms
[2008/06/28 11:07] You: can anyone tell me how to prove which parcels are ‘commercial’?
[2008/06/28 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: it says it on the land
[2008/06/28 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: there is a plat map
[2008/06/28 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: the land is all zoned when its built the covenent says which
[2008/06/28 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: dont you read your covenant on the land jamie
[2008/06/28 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: jon said most ppl dont.. you clicked a box that said you read your covenent
[2008/06/28 11:08] You: 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:08] Alexicon Kurka: from all ides heard, increasing the tier sounds the most feasibile management tool
[2008/06/28 11:08] You: I will make two sugestions then
[2008/06/28 11:09] You: (1) Since his will affect rent collection, I will make a motion to amend: that the penalty clauses all start applying on August 1. The July rent cycle already started, so let’s make this easy to ad-
[2008/06/28 11:09] You: -minister if we are going to do it. Any issues with that? or a second?
[2008/06/28 11:10] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/06/28 11:10] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/06/28 11:11] You: Any objection to amendment or ready to vote on amendment?
[2008/06/28 11:11] Jamie Palisades looks at Sonja
[2008/06/28 11:11] ThePrincess Parisi: ready
[2008/06/28 11:11] MT Lundquist: ready
[2008/06/28 11:11] You: ok …. members please state your vote on the amendment (1 August) only. I vote yes.
[2008/06/28 11:11] Sonja Strom: sorry, I got lost in exactly what the motion is
[2008/06/28 11:11] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/06/28 11:11] MT Lundquist: and prin will be back in a sec
[2008/06/28 11:11] You: np 🙂 for sonja: …
[2008/06/28 11:12] Bjerkel Eerie: could you state the amendment?
[2008/06/28 11:12] You: we are voting on an amedment ..
[2008/06/28 11:12] You: the amendment is to make the effective date 1 August …
[2008/06/28 11:12] You: .. and this would modify the main motion which is …
[2008/06/28 11:12] You: .. to approve the Commerce Comm plan at the URI:
[2008/06/28 11:13] You: /viewtopic.php?f=20&t=1611&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p11378
[2008/06/28 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 11:13] You: done 🙂 Sonja, does that help?
[2008/06/28 11:13] Sonja Strom: yes, thanks
[2008/06/28 11:13] You: we will have another amendment, then the main motion, so at least 2 more votes
[2008/06/28 11:13] Sonja Strom: I vote aye on the amendment to the motion
[2008/06/28 11:13] You: Here’s my 2nd and last proposed amendment:
[2008/06/28 11:14] You: Second proposed amendment: ‘commercial’ rules only can apply if the land is marked in the land’s metadata as ‘commercial’ — and we direct the Chancellor to get those done & the plots all marked with correct metadata by 1 August
2008/06/28 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: can i say something to ease the public outcry please
[2008/06/28 11:14] You: hahaha
[2008/06/28 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: last i looked no one seemed to be in violation
[2008/06/28 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: not that i decide
[2008/06/28 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: im just saying
[2008/06/28 11:14] You: I agree Prin 🙂 FWIW, this is not like there are a lot of people who are about to suffer
[2008/06/28 11:14] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/06/28 11:14] You: it was way worse a year ago
[2008/06/28 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: no exactly
[2008/06/28 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: I think just the discussion of this has gootten ppls attention
[2008/06/28 11:15] Alexicon Kurka: yes CDS does improve
[2008/06/28 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:15] You: so we have a motion and second on the 2d amendment (which is about marking commercial land as such)
[2008/06/28 11:15] You: any discussion?
[2008/06/28 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: no .. someone told me I talk to much
[2008/06/28 11:16] Jamie Palisades looks around … ready for a vote on amendment #2? I am, smile
[2008/06/28 11:17] You: … members please state your vote on the amendment. I vote yes
[2008/06/28 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 11:17] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/06/28 11:17] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/06/28 11:17] You: OK. Both motions passed without objection so we have a motion as amended
[2008/06/28 11:18] You: let me remind you all that this also establishes a chamber of commerce
[2008/06/28 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you Alexicon
[2008/06/28 11:18] Alexicon Kurka: congrats
[2008/06/28 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: nice
[2008/06/28 11:18] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/06/28 11:18] MT Lundquist: wow thats hair
[2008/06/28 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: we need one
[2008/06/28 11:18] You: and that we clarified, at a prior RA meeting, that this C of C would REPLACE the older merchant groups, which have gone dormant
[2008/06/28 11:18] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/06/28 11:18] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/06/28 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: neat
[2008/06/28 11:19] You: more discussion on motion as amended?
[2008/06/28 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: what is there to discuss
[2008/06/28 11:19] You: hee hee I have to ask – it’s my job
[2008/06/28 11:19] You: for 34 more days
[2008/06/28 11:19] You: 13 hours
[2008/06/28 11:20] You: hmm
[2008/06/28 11:20] Alexicon Kurka: haha counting down?
[2008/06/28 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: you cant wait!
[2008/06/28 11:20] You: 39 minutes 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:20] Alexicon Kurka: lol
[2008/06/28 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and im not in anymore so it would be easy
[2008/06/28 11:20] You: ahem – ready to vote?
[2008/06/28 11:20] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/06/28 11:20] You: or should we all stare at Prin’s very large sci fi weapon?
[2008/06/28 11:20] You: oops gone 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:20] MT Lundquist: it was a battle nun
[2008/06/28 11:20] Sonja Strom: I was wondering what that was
[2008/06/28 11:21] MT Lundquist: apparently
[2008/06/28 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/06/28 11:21] You: OK. On main motion as amended (Commerce Commission), members please state your vote. I vote aye
[2008/06/28 11:21] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/06/28 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/06/28 11:21] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/06/28 11:21] You: Motion passes 4-0-0.
[2008/06/28 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: MT worked very hard and efficient at that one
[2008/06/28 11:22] You: High fives to successful commission chair MT!
[2008/06/28 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: i think he had the most effective commsion todate
[2008/06/28 11:22] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/06/28 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: not that I’m biased
[2008/06/28 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: but actually I’m very hard on him
[2008/06/28 11:22] MT Lundquist: thats true
[2008/06/28 11:22] MT Lundquist: the ruler hurts
[2008/06/28 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: I mean I would be not praising him if I didnt think he did a good job, well great
[2008/06/28 11:22] Alexicon Kurka: I thank you all on your work on this subject
[2008/06/28 11:22] You: kids kids 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: and a lot of citizens participated
[2008/06/28 11:23] You: Alexi, you have been patient with us 😀
[2008/06/28 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: and we need to thank them
[2008/06/28 11:23] MT Lundquist: yes i would like to thank those who assisted
[2008/06/28 11:23] MT Lundquist: i think they are listed on the forum
—-
[2008/06/28 11:23] You: any other matters for Alex’s Q&A, as we are over our scheduled time?
[2008/06/28 11:23] Alexicon Kurka: yes my son is hungry, lol
[2008/06/28 11:23] Xcite! Ruler is placed firmly into ThePrincess’s hand.
[2008/06/28 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: aAexicon are you running for chancellor again? And what do i do now about the darn tour
[2008/06/28 11:23] You: (MT I will work with you to post something on this that thanks them again in a conspicuous way)
[2008/06/28 11:24] Alexicon Kurka: TP can you put it in place in July?
[2008/06/28 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: let him eat cake, it wont hurt him
[2008/06/28 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: where the f is it
[2008/06/28 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i cant put it in place then til i have it
[2008/06/28 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: and the person who owns it has to install it cos its no transfer
[2008/06/28 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i think
[2008/06/28 11:24] You: um – is there a designated launching place for the tour vehicles?
[2008/06/28 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont care, i dont even want to do it
[2008/06/28 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i am so sick of asking for the thing
[2008/06/28 11:25] You: 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: yes jamie its on the forum when the RA approved the plan
[2008/06/28 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: and the budget
[2008/06/28 11:25] You: kk thx
[2008/06/28 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: LAST TERM
[2008/06/28 11:25] Alexicon Kurka: I will fix it with Sudane within days
[2008/06/28 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: sirrt aneru
[2008/06/28 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ao
[2008/06/28 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry americans we sort of have time issues that are culturally different
[2008/06/28 11:26] Alexicon Kurka: if it is no transfer then You have to buy it.
[2008/06/28 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: i have cencored my answer to that
[2008/06/28 11:27] Alexicon Kurka: and you will sign a contract assuring that it belongs to CDS,
[2008/06/28 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: omg i might steal it!
[2008/06/28 11:27] Alexicon Kurka: people do leave cds
[2008/06/28 11:27] Alexicon Kurka: it’s no shame or stealing
[2008/06/28 11:27] You: Alexi, of course I am pretty sure a good ownership solution for the tour vehicles is posible 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: ok no worries i will sign a contract
[2008/06/28 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: or pay my aid to do it
[2008/06/28 11:28] Alexicon Kurka: good, again excuse for this delay I was sure it was on the way
[2008/06/28 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: ;lskdjf;asldkfj
[2008/06/28 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: bleep
[2008/06/28 11:28] MT Lundquist: sometimes those censors work
[2008/06/28 11:28] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/06/28 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: bleep it was my fault like everything else
[2008/06/28 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: it was a clear political stragtegy
[2008/06/28 11:28] You: so 🙂 Alexi: I do want to come back to Prin’s other question. (And good for you for selfcensoring Prin …) It’s up to you whether to answer as this is a personal question, but I’m interested in whether you will run again also. I may, if you don’t, unless a majority faction comes in and wants to grab the whole pie.
[2008/06/28 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you so much sir LRA, its about time
[2008/06/28 11:29] Alexicon Kurka: I don’t plan to run next term for chancellor
[2008/06/28 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: MT is running
[2008/06/28 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: Jamie are you running?
[2008/06/28 11:30] You: well what it’s past time for, actually, is to adjourn 🙂 But tha’s nice to know. Prin, you can’t think that I would be surprised if you have a candidate … :).
[2008/06/28 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: since you’ve lost an election now it shouldnt be so stressful… 🙁 first time and all
[2008/06/28 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: I have a candidate? like I own everyone?
[2008/06/28 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: oh I do
[2008/06/28 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: I forgot
[2008/06/28 11:31] You: I like to do things that promote constructive behavior and reduce nastiness 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: im not nasty
[2008/06/28 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: are you calling me nasty sir?
[2008/06/28 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: now that toga, that was nasty.
[2008/06/28 11:32] Sonja Strom: wow, I actually stood up without jumping on top of my chair!
[2008/06/28 11:32] Sonja Strom: :-
[2008/06/28 11:32] Alexicon Kurka: OK so are we ready today?
[2008/06/28 11:32] Sonja Strom: 😀
[2008/06/28 11:32] You: so I would say that, if my being interested in the job were to bring out a lot of nasty behavior .. hypothetically .. from anyone .. I will be happy to take Cincinnatus’s approach and leave people to their fun 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you alexicon
[2008/06/28 11:32] Sonja Strom: bye all
[2008/06/28 11:32] MT Lundquist: bye sonja
[2008/06/28 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: bye sonja thanks for your time
[2008/06/28 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: i promise im done being nasty in sl imma be nasty in rl
[2008/06/28 11:32] You: yes, thanks Alexi, I think we are – and if no objections, we are adjourned 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks alex and bells
[2008/06/28 11:33] Alexicon Kurka: I would appreciate any measures that discourage nasty behaviors and partisans
[2008/06/28 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: bells is running for RA jamie
[2008/06/28 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: well im not running
[2008/06/28 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: so you can count on me not being nasty
[2008/06/28 11:33] Alexicon Kurka: so thank you all
[2008/06/28 11:33] You: Yes, she mentioned that , and I told her I thought she would do an excellent job
[2008/06/28 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: she will
[2008/06/28 11:33] You: we’re adjourned 🙂
—-
[2008/06/28 11:33] Alexicon Kurka: see you next time, soon, TP you will hear from me soon
[2008/06/28 11:33] You: and as you knew well Prin
[2008/06/28 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: oh good alexicon i know you love me
[2008/06/28 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: as you grit your teeth
[2008/06/28 11:34] You: 🙂 the kind of behavior that concerns me is not limited to RA meetings
[2008/06/28 11:34] Alexicon Kurka: peace
[2008/06/28 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: what on earth are you talking about
[2008/06/28 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: all i do is sell togas
[2008/06/28 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: what hair should i wear
[2008/06/28 11:34] MT Lundquist: hi bells
[2008/06/28 11:34] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/06/28 11:34] Bells Semyorka: Hi MT, thanks for the TP hun
[2008/06/28 11:35] MT Lundquist: lol jamie
[2008/06/28 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: look at this dress
[2008/06/28 11:35] You: Cheers all 🙂
[2008/06/28 11:35] Bells Semyorka: I like the back, P you look Hott!
[2008/06/28 11:35] MT Lundquist: yes very open
[2008/06/28 11:35] Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Neufreistadt/196/185/179
[end]
RA Meeting: July 05, 2008
[2008/07/05 9:02] You: Good morning Toga King
[2008/07/05 9:02] MT Lundquist: lol yes
[2008/07/05 9:02] MT Lundquist: hang on
[2008/07/05 9:02] You: I;m not really expecting a quorum by the way 🙂 but Prin did ask me to try
[2008/07/05 9:03] MT Lundquist: yes she said to me
[2008/07/05 9:03] You: hah – don’t strain anything inviting more people
[2008/07/05 9:03] You: I’ll be real happy for 10 mins then logoff
[2008/07/05 9:03] You: also – most of the rest are not online
[2008/07/05 9:03] MT Lundquist: do you want prin to login
[2008/07/05 9:03] You: let’s see
[2008/07/05 9:03] MT Lundquist: i’m on the phone to her
[2008/07/05 9:03] You: off = BV, Sonja, Gwyn …
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: no need I think – but tell her thanks
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: we got nothign that HAS to move this week anyway
[2008/07/05 9:04] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: Roc’s offline too
[2008/07/05 9:04] MT Lundquist: gwyn
[2008/07/05 9:04] MT Lundquist: ?
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: ah JUST arrived
[2008/07/05 9:04] MT Lundquist: on radar
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: but let’s see 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:04] MT Lundquist: hi gwyn
[2008/07/05 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi, sorry!!
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: Hi social democrat
[2008/07/05 9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Jamie
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: n p at all
[2008/07/05 9:04] You: in fact we’re just discussing calling it a holiday
[2008/07/05 9:05] MT Lundquist: prins logging in
[2008/07/05 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we’re just 5 minutes after the hour 😀
[2008/07/05 9:05] You: sonja, FR and BV are offline
[2008/07/05 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For now… 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:05] You: but yes we can do with four if there’s business to conduct, smile
[2008/07/05 9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’ve got an agenda posted, so…. 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:05] You: hmnoutfit for you flower girl
[2008/07/05 9:06] You: new one
[2008/07/05 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh… no, that’s an old one 😉
[2008/07/05 9:06] You: oh by the way speaking of your fashion victim rep, did you see that Soleil scooped all your oldies but goodies at the auction?
[2008/07/05 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: two and a half years old… i think the designer already left SL 😀
[2008/07/05 9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh!… No, I didn’t notice that 😀
[2008/07/05 9:07] You: well I am always grateful on artistic principles to see any attempt at asymmetry in clothes
[2008/07/05 9:07] MT Lundquist: oh i do asymetry in togas
[2008/07/05 9:07] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/07/05 9:07] MT Lundquist: sometimes intentionally
[2008/07/05 9:07] You: strike a blow for variety!
[2008/07/05 9:07] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/07/05 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha well
[2008/07/05 9:08] MT Lundquist: strange the more skin pixels uncovered the better they sell
[2008/07/05 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My fashion newsletter told me that this summer, assymetry is “in” again,
[2008/07/05 9:08] You: hm really? Maybe that’s just a toga thing though
[2008/07/05 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so I looked through my old outfits… 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe MT — just like iRL!
[2008/07/05 9:08] You: ah well, i do not think I subscribe to those, grin
[2008/07/05 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The less fabric, the more expensive the outfit!!
[2008/07/05 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn never understood the logic of that one
[2008/07/05 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then again, why should it have any logic??
[2008/07/05 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/05 9:10] MT Lundquist: yes i guess thats the way
[2008/07/05 9:11] Jamie Palisades smiles placidly
[2008/07/05 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles as well and waits…
[2008/07/05 9:11] You: Nice of you both to come, but I think at 15 after the hour, I may go start my holiday BBQ preparations
[2008/07/05 9:11] You: by the way
[2008/07/05 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s fine for me, but…
[2008/07/05 9:12] You: Arria asked me to set up a RA election debate again, as she’s running and I’m not
[2008/07/05 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … wasn’t the holiday *yesterday*? 😀
[2008/07/05 9:12] You: so I will get a message around to the factions & candidates
[2008/07/05 9:12] You: 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I’ve heard she got permissions from Alex to do the debate and all
[2008/07/05 9:12] MT Lundquist: hi bromo
[2008/07/05 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh
[2008/07/05 9:12] MT Lundquist: hi lve
[2008/07/05 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin arrives at the same time as Bromo!
[2008/07/05 9:12] You: Hi Bromo
[2008/07/05 9:12] Bromo Ivory: Hi Guys
[2008/07/05 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi both 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:13] Bromo Ivory: Hi Gwyn – I suppose this dispells the rumors we are alts
[2008/07/05 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: is he my alt?
[2008/07/05 9:13] You: oh? Hi Prin
[2008/07/05 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bromo: indeed 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:13] You: Yikes not in all white I hope
[2008/07/05 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha I think not!…
[2008/07/05 9:13] MT Lundquist: whose alt am i then
[2008/07/05 9:13] You: Quick question you lot
[2008/07/05 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you have against white????
[2008/07/05 9:13] Bromo Ivory: LOL
[2008/07/05 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: see how can you tpqt the same time
[2008/07/05 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: the cape is the latest addition to the collection
[2008/07/05 9:13] You: 🙂 MT you are special, you can be my alt too if you like
[2008/07/05 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: ill sell you one
[2008/07/05 9:13] You: “I am legion .. i contain multitudes”
[2008/07/05 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: where are all my alts
[2008/07/05 9:13] Bromo Ivory: No – everyone in this room is my alt
[2008/07/05 9:13] MT Lundquist: thanks jamie
[2008/07/05 9:13] MT Lundquist: oh yes i forgot i’m bromo
[2008/07/05 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might be…
[2008/07/05 9:14] Bromo Ivory: And you better not forget it, Mister
[2008/07/05 9:14] You: that’s a nice statement of the solipsist view, Bromo
[2008/07/05 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: whewre the fuck is my throne
[2008/07/05 9:14] Bromo Ivory: Oh yes Gwyn, you are, too
[2008/07/05 9:14] Jamie Palisades grins and points to the chairs
[2008/07/05 9:14] Bromo Ivory: My alt would never say the f-word
[2008/07/05 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/05 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/05 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i was just kidding
[2008/07/05 9:14] MT Lundquist: so maybe we are all prins
[2008/07/05 9:14] You: so kids
[2008/07/05 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a throne in NFS 😉
[2008/07/05 9:14] You: we got any actual business today?
[2008/07/05 9:15] DivineLolita Demonia: Heya
[2008/07/05 9:15] You: (I do not think I knew that, Gwyn) – where?
[2008/07/05 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: i still dont have the damn money for the guided tour
[2008/07/05 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine until 11:30 😀
[2008/07/05 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: and i want an audit
[2008/07/05 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: jamie, in the Schloss!
[2008/07/05 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: thats all i have
[2008/07/05 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: so bromo
[2008/07/05 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello, Divine!
[2008/07/05 9:15] ThePrincess Parisi: bromo did you plan to take my seat today
[2008/07/05 9:15] MT Lundquist: hi devine
[2008/07/05 9:15] DivineLolita Demonia: are you all governing today? giggles
[2008/07/05 9:16] Bromo Ivory: Why would I?
[2008/07/05 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re looking for a quorum 😉
[2008/07/05 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: we have one
[2008/07/05 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we have one 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:16] Bromo Ivory looks under seat for that little beast
[2008/07/05 9:16] MT Lundquist: although jamie seems quiet
[2008/07/05 9:16] DivineLolita Demonia: frowns.. a quorum? looks in her little hand bag.. Nope I dont have one sorry..
[2008/07/05 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: He’s…. meditating
[2008/07/05 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “ommm”
[2008/07/05 9:16] Bromo Ivory eeps.
[2008/07/05 9:17] MT Lundquist: narcalepsy
[2008/07/05 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/05 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor Jamie
[2008/07/05 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry im texturing
[2008/07/05 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: narolepsy
[2008/07/05 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s too early for him I guess…
[2008/07/05 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/05 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: how do i look
[2008/07/05 9:17] MT Lundquist: regal
[2008/07/05 9:17] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/07/05 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you
[2008/07/05 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: the new cape is ok ?
[2008/07/05 9:17] DivineLolita Demonia: Slightly Irrevarant? giggles
[2008/07/05 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: who is she?
[2008/07/05 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi points to devine
[2008/07/05 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: like a princess in a fantasy movie 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:18] You: narco indeed 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, she was here before!
[2008/07/05 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: when
[2008/07/05 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh a month or so ago?
[2008/07/05 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont remember her
[2008/07/05 9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t remember exactly, Divine
[2008/07/05 9:18] You: I didn’t want a meeting myself – too much going on today – but our New Concept for LRAs is to be a servant leader 🙂 so I am trying to model a set of behaviors here
[2008/07/05 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: what do you want us to do jamie
[2008/07/05 9:19] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:19] You: Hello again Loli!
[2008/07/05 9:19] DivineLolita Demonia: oh ‘im just here to watch if u dont mind … if i’m intruding i can go…
[2008/07/05 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re very welcome, Divine!
[2008/07/05 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: symo is our decorator
[2008/07/05 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: did we approve that
[2008/07/05 9:19] Bromo Ivory thinks Jamie introducing BDSM concepts to RA might be a little tough for some to adjust to
[2008/07/05 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Bromo
[2008/07/05 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: jamies a perv
[2008/07/05 9:19] You: well here’s the Q 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:19] You: Prin, MT, Gwyn, do any of you have business you wish to conduct today? (If you say yes let’s convene quickly and do it. If not let’s not.)
[2008/07/05 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i said i do
[2008/07/05 9:19] You: OK 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, I’d say, let’s follow the agenda
[2008/07/05 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I second prin’s points too
[2008/07/05 9:19] MT Lundquist: well i wore latex last week
[2008/07/05 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha MT!
[2008/07/05 9:19] You: DLolita? No prob at all it’s an open meeting
[2008/07/05 9:19] Bromo Ivory: But Gwyn – its hidden as usual
[2008/07/05 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn reminds herself to get some PVC next Saturday
[2008/07/05 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: you got that right jamie
[2008/07/05 9:20] You: next saturday?
[2008/07/05 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: what happens then?
[2008/07/05 9:20] You: what, are we having CDS latex week or something? siiiigh
[2008/07/05 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: naked nucare
[2008/07/05 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: i think thats their slogan
[2008/07/05 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[2008/07/05 9:20] MT Lundquist: bare nucare
[2008/07/05 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: NuBare?
[2008/07/05 9:20] You: Quick run though the admin items then 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: texture my box
[2008/07/05 9:21] You: let’s come to order
[2008/07/05 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: that sounds dirty
[2008/07/05 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: wait
[2008/07/05 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: dont make me be in order
[2008/07/05 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye aye cap’n Palisades!
[2008/07/05 9:21] You: Prin can make salacious offers later 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i wanna show you
[2008/07/05 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: omg Prin
[2008/07/05 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[2008/07/05 9:21] You: and MT can texture his box at his leisure
[2008/07/05 9:21] MT Lundquist: notice its me who gets to be naked
[2008/07/05 9:21] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/07/05 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: they are reuining our faction
[2008/07/05 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha MT yes
[2008/07/05 9:21] You: so this is what? a new microtoga?
[2008/07/05 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nice tats 😉
[2008/07/05 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/05 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh
[2008/07/05 9:22] MT Lundquist: yes very small
[2008/07/05 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Microtoga, right…
[2008/07/05 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: then they have this
[2008/07/05 9:22] You: if it’s infinitely small, MT, can you charge an infinite price??
[2008/07/05 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
[2008/07/05 9:22] MT Lundquist: true
[2008/07/05 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh that one is nice too, who took the picture?
[2008/07/05 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: its pathetic how they have made a mockery of all my work
[2008/07/05 9:22] MT Lundquist: of course i could attend ra dressed like that
[2008/07/05 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn has no objection 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/05 9:23] You: weqll it’s good to know your platform 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What rumours are true? 😉
[2008/07/05 9:23] You: can we lose it for now please?
[2008/07/05 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: look at her butt
[2008/07/05 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ok ok
[2008/07/05 9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I did
[2008/07/05 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: rose thinks shes my alt
[2008/07/05 9:23] You: OK 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/05 9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure she thinks that 😉
—-
[2008/07/05 9:23] You: Please assent to recording – I Assent
[2008/07/05 9:23] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/07/05 9:24] You: That’s 1a 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I assent as well…
[2008/07/05 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i assend
[2008/07/05 9:24] Bromo Ivory: I assent
—-
[2008/07/05 9:24] You: 1b – any changes to agenda? it is short, an at :
[2008/07/05 9:24] You: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1941&p=11530#p11530
[2008/07/05 9:24] MT Lundquist: do you have the link to the agenda please
[2008/07/05 9:24] You: while you are looking
[2008/07/05 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin has suggested a few points, and I’ve seconded those
[2008/07/05 9:24] You: 1c – I see no one else who plans to speak today other than RA members?
[2008/07/05 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you gyweneth llewellen
[2008/07/05 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Moon apologises, but she can’t come in-world today to give any reports from the Guild; I don’t know if there are any other Guild members available
[2008/07/05 9:25] You: hm – Prin could you restate those? what additions to agenda?
[2008/07/05 9:25] You: (No need Gwyn)
—-
[2008/07/05 9:25] You: and while we are waiting, also, 1d:
[2008/07/05 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ThePrincess Parisi: i still donet have the damn money for the guided tour | and I want an audit
[2008/07/05 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/05 9:25] You: Please send me any corrections to the poted transcripts.
[2008/07/05 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/05 9:26] You: ah the reimb 🙂 that’s on the agenda as 1f
[2008/07/05 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Basically, verifying why the Executive is not paying for events that have been budgeted and approved for!
[2008/07/05 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
[2008/07/05 9:26] You: and let’s add audit after ite 2 hmn?
[2008/07/05 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry — you’re so right
[2008/07/05 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
[2008/07/05 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: what else do we have left hanging
[2008/07/05 9:26] You: those two items only, then, Prin? Both added 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:26] You: added
—-
[2008/07/05 9:27] You: 1e
[2008/07/05 9:27] You: we plan to meet on the 12th, 19th and 26th June
[2008/07/05 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *July
[2008/07/05 9:27] You: then new RA is seated
[2008/07/05 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: what else is on the agenda.. i am concerned the election rules committee didnt ever bring anything
[2008/07/05 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whoops
[2008/07/05 9:27] You: ha ha quit right thanks Gwyn, 12-19-26 July
[2008/07/05 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:27] You: that’s on agenda under item 3 Prin
[2008/07/05 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
—-
[2008/07/05 9:28] You: so 1f 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:28] You: consent
[2008/07/05 9:28] You: and I have a proposed item
[2008/07/05 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders why the wall behind Bromo and MT is missing
[2008/07/05 9:28] You: Last week we asked our chancellor to act on the outstanding reimb requests to Prin
[2008/07/05 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: he said he would
[2008/07/05 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Jamie
[2008/07/05 9:28] MT Lundquist: its not
[2008/07/05 9:28] Bromo Ivory thinks its a plot by Michel
[2008/07/05 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ah, good to know, MT)
[2008/07/05 9:28] You: and give us an answer within a week
[2008/07/05 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A week is now over.
[2008/07/05 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/07/05 9:29] You: (And Michel’s my alt, just to be clear about that)
[2008/07/05 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i have no clue but to make me look like a idiot
[2008/07/05 9:29] You: (however)
[2008/07/05 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: michels alt is my otheroalt
[2008/07/05 9:29] You: (I Will NOT tattoo his name on my butt. Sorry.)
[2008/07/05 9:29] You: so
[2008/07/05 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[2008/07/05 9:30] You: would any RA member like to take further action regarding the lack of answer? I know of no response.
[2008/07/05 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: what do we do ?
[2008/07/05 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the only option we have is to kick out the Chancellor really…
[2008/07/05 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: shall we call him and hang him by his toes
[2008/07/05 9:30] You: Per last week our options are – ask Sudane, Ask Alex again, impeach
[2008/07/05 9:30] DivineLolita Demonia: is he an alt too? gigggles
[2008/07/05 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope not 😀
[2008/07/05 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: well………. i think we should threaten empeachment.. one last chance and we go for it
[2008/07/05 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: stall the election
[2008/07/05 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… this is serious actually
[2008/07/05 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor cannot ignore us…
[2008/07/05 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s a terrible precedent
[2008/07/05 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: it is, and its not about me.. but it is a pattern of mismanagement of funds in s CDS as whole
[2008/07/05 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, one thing at the time.One was a clear request
[2008/07/05 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which was ignored
[2008/07/05 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: it should include an audit though….
[2008/07/05 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: and we need an explanation .. for all we know he asked sudane for money and he said no
[2008/07/05 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As much as I love Alex personally, I’d give him a few days to fully explain why he didn’t comply with our request, and then threaten removal from office (and yes, this is a motion!)
[2008/07/05 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/07/05 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who said no, Sudane?
[2008/07/05 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: let him explain..
[2008/07/05 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: well, gwyeneth, maybe its sudane not alexicon quite possibly
[2008/07/05 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: who is the one stalling
[2008/07/05 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i have reason to believe sudane has issues with money
[2008/07/05 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: so lets have alexicon explain
[2008/07/05 9:33] Bromo Ivory glares at Prin
[2008/07/05 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So we have to figure that out, and I’d say that the first step is to ask the Chancellor, since he heads the Executive
[2008/07/05 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2008/07/05 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If he doesn’t answer, we threaten with removal from office…
[2008/07/05 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: so where is he?
[2008/07/05 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If he answers but we don’t like the answer 🙂 … then I’d say we’ll discuss it on the next RA on the 12th
[2008/07/05 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: gywneth you told me that sudane takes a profit.. out of CDS.. how does that happen.. and where is it recorded?
[2008/07/05 9:35] You: hmmm
[2008/07/05 9:35] Bromo Ivory looks at Prin asking her to be quiet (in IM)
[2008/07/05 9:35] You: might not wan tto get into that just yet – let’s deal with the chancelor issue first, hm?
[2008/07/05 9:35] You: Taking Gwyn’s lead …
[2008/07/05 9:35] MT Lundquist: its important to understand where the money goes though
[2008/07/05 9:36] You: anyone wish to move to remind the Chancellor of his promise to resolve the request within a week, and notify him that we will consider his removal at our next meeting if there is no reply?
[2008/07/05 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/07/05 9:36] You: I agree it’s a strong move – but well 🙂 if that’s the ony option we have, you can do that
[2008/07/05 9:37] You: and I agre the rest is important too MT, just want to get this bit resolved first
[2008/07/05 9:37] Bromo Ivory: Given the term is over shortly … and Alex won’t be Chancellor ….
[2008/07/05 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: of course if he was from another faction it would be political
[2008/07/05 9:37] You: (Note if I can take that as Prin’s motion it does NOT require him to PAY just to ANSWER)
[2008/07/05 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: so if sudane takes a profit from CDS like gwyen said, then all of CDS is a total joke and not what we areled to believe right?
[2008/07/05 9:37] You: (and if that was a motion I need a second)
[2008/07/05 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed.. just to
[2008/07/05 9:39] You: hm I guess we could let it die for lack of a second? MT? Gwyn?
[2008/07/05 9:39] You: She’s asleep 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: who?
[2008/07/05 9:39] You: this is your chance to sit in Gwyn’s lap Prin
[2008/07/05 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: id rather puke
[2008/07/05 9:39] Bromo Ivory starts selling tickets
[2008/07/05 9:39] You: seee how often THAT occurs
[2008/07/05 9:40] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/07/05 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: dont you know she kinda makes me ill
[2008/07/05 9:40] You: tsk 🙂 let’s be polite in meetings, within reason
[2008/07/05 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: polite?.. regurgitate is that better
[2008/07/05 9:40] MT Lundquist: alex is on
[2008/07/05 9:40] You: no second then?
[2008/07/05 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/07/05 9:40] ThePrincess Parisi: ill second it
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: 🙂 uou made the motion
[2008/07/05 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: well..
[2008/07/05 9:41] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: there we go
[2008/07/05 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i thought i had two votes
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: any disussion?
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn apologises and is back again
[2008/07/05 9:41] ThePrincess Parisi: dont read back , its fine.
[2008/07/05 9:41] MT Lundquist: we quickly jump out of gwyns lap
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: motion in chat above, bascially a reminder and a hint of possible removal if there’s no answer
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: *reminder
[2008/07/05 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure
[2008/07/05 9:41] You: any more discussion?
[2008/07/05 9:42] You: ready to vote? Seems so
[2008/07/05 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/07/05 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: alexicon turned up
[2008/07/05 9:42] You: All in favor of the motion plase say aye.
[2008/07/05 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
[2008/07/05 9:42] You: oh – we shoud stop?
[2008/07/05 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: nay
[2008/07/05 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: well hes not answering IMs
[2008/07/05 9:42] You: it’s your motion 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/05 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn sees Alex
[2008/07/05 9:42] MT Lundquist: nay
[2008/07/05 9:42] You: I suggest we withdraw the vote and start over
[2008/07/05 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: hes here!
[2008/07/05 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, well, if Alex is here, he can answer directly 😀
[2008/07/05 9:43] MT Lundquist: hi alex
[2008/07/05 9:43] You: Ahh Alex
[2008/07/05 9:43] Alexicon Kurka: hi all
[2008/07/05 9:43] DivineLolita Demonia: yey! another alt! giggles
[2008/07/05 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: for the sake of “defending my honour”, Prin claims that I’ve said that: “ThePrincess Parisi: so if sudane takes a profit from CDS like gwyen said, then all of CDS is a total joke and not what we areled to believe right” — I actually said the total opposite, Sudane is NOT taking a ‘profit’ from the CDS 😛
[2008/07/05 9:43] You: Thanks for dropping in, we were just considering asking you to answer our question last week or trying to remove you next week – which I suppose would be a favor to you …
[2008/07/05 9:43] You: 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: oh excuse me
[2008/07/05 9:44] You: Alexi can you let us know if you approved or denied Prin’s requests for reimbursement from last week?
[2008/07/05 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie, well put 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:44] MT Lundquist: m
[2008/07/05 9:44] MT Lundquist is seeing double
[2008/07/05 9:44] MT Lundquist: there are many prins
[2008/07/05 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: you wish
[2008/07/05 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: no one but you does
[2008/07/05 9:44] Bromo Ivory: Oh no not another one
[2008/07/05 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i didnt know you can do that
[2008/07/05 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: put your cursor on the chair and left click
[2008/07/05 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* it works if the chair is programmed that way
[2008/07/05 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Alex left?
[2008/07/05 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/05 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: why did he leave
[2008/07/05 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/05 9:46] Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[2008/07/05 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: omg .. ok you said no one BUT sudane would do that for no profit thts right
[2008/07/05 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i stand corrected
[2008/07/05 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, I see his hair again!
[2008/07/05 9:46] Alexicon Kurka: sorry I crashed
[2008/07/05 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: welcome back
[2008/07/05 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:46] MT Lundquist: wb
[2008/07/05 9:46] Alexicon Kurka: 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: did you get the RA’s question. Alex? 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:47] Alexicon Kurka: so you had a lot of questions for me
[2008/07/05 9:47] MT Lundquist: we were just finding the most comfy chair
[2008/07/05 9:47] Alexicon Kurka: you want me to give up the chaNCELORSHIP A FEW WEEKS EARLIER?
[2008/07/05 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nooooo
[2008/07/05 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: noooooooooooo
[2008/07/05 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/05 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: just answer the question
[2008/07/05 9:48] Alexicon Kurka: what was the question?
[2008/07/05 9:48] Alexicon Kurka: about reimbushment for thePrincess?
[2008/07/05 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [9:44] Jamie Palisades: Alexi can you let us know if you approved or denied Prin’s requests for reimbursement from last week?
[2008/07/05 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi holds out her right hand plalm up and points to the empty hand
[2008/07/05 9:48] Alexicon Kurka: I did talk with Sudane this week about it. She would discuss with Gwyn about the transfer problems.
[2008/07/05 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: GWYEN?
[2008/07/05 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: I asked thePrincess to still look for a tranferable gadget
[2008/07/05 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: she has to talk with gwyen?
[2008/07/05 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Transfer problems??
[2008/07/05 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[2008/07/05 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: you did NOT
[2008/07/05 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: when did you ask me that?
[2008/07/05 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: I IMed you
[2008/07/05 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) What transfer problems? and 2) What do *I* have to do with it? 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: my IMs are capped every day cos of my business
[2008/07/05 9:49] You: ?
[2008/07/05 9:49] Alexicon Kurka: the tour version thePrincess wants to buy is no transfer
[2008/07/05 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: my porofile said that
[2008/07/05 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
[2008/07/05 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: profile.. and i have no clue if its transfer or not
[2008/07/05 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so? I’m not a Linden, I cannot change permissions on other people’s objects :))
[2008/07/05 9:50] You: Alexi I thought she did buy it already – no Prin?
[2008/07/05 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: and I DONT WANNA BUY IT
[2008/07/05 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: this is not about me!
[2008/07/05 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: it was approved by the rA as a budget idtem
[2008/07/05 9:50] You: (ha ha Gwyn can they do that?)
[2008/07/05 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly.
[2008/07/05 9:50] Alexicon Kurka: also the other idea of having Sudane buy it would not work after all
[2008/07/05 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Jamie)
[2008/07/05 9:50] You: prin dear – do you have one in your inventory that CDS can use, or not?
[2008/07/05 9:51] You: ithat data will resolve Alexi’s issue i think
[2008/07/05 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOOOO i refuse to buy one with MY money cos CDS NEVER reimburses
[2008/07/05 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: this is the whole issue of the thing!!!!!
[2008/07/05 9:51] You: OK 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:51] You: then there is no need to reimburse you yet, right?
[2008/07/05 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: doesnt anyone get it……………
[2008/07/05 9:51] You: you just want them to get on with it and buy the vehicle, I take it?
[2008/07/05 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: WE APPROVED A ITEM TO BUY
[2008/07/05 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: I NEED THE MONEY TO BUY IT WITH
[2008/07/05 9:51] You: OK 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: OR SOMEONE
[2008/07/05 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: WTF IS THE PROBLEM
[2008/07/05 9:52] Alexicon Kurka: tP the money is not the issue, that has been approved
[2008/07/05 9:52] Alexicon Kurka: the ownership is
[2008/07/05 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: WHY DO WE APPROVE A BUDGET ITEM
[2008/07/05 9:52] DivineLolita Demonia: blushes
[2008/07/05 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: WHO OWNS ANYTHIN G IN CDS.. HOW DO WE HAVE ANYTHING
[2008/07/05 9:52] You: Alexi has said — correct me if I am wrong — that he wants Sudane or the Guild or some neutral to own it, right Alexi?
[2008/07/05 9:52] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[2008/07/05 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[2008/07/05 9:52] Alexicon Kurka: thank you Jamie
[2008/07/05 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry, but I don’t understand.
[2008/07/05 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: I DONT GIVE A CRAP WHO OWNS THE DARN THING.. WHY HASNT IT BEEN BOUGHT IN SIX MONTHS
[2008/07/05 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, prin
[2008/07/05 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the question
[2008/07/05 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest are silly details!
[2008/07/05 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: DO YOU THINK I WANT 4K LINDENS
[2008/07/05 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: SO I CAN RETIRE OR SOMETHING
[2008/07/05 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: FFFFFFS
[2008/07/05 9:53] Jamie Palisades grins — Alexi, if Prin gets you the data on the precise item, can you get someone within the executive to buy it this next week, say within 7 days after she gives you the item information?
[2008/07/05 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to agree with Prin wholeheartedly
[2008/07/05 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: its why is the process…………….so messed up
[2008/07/05 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s insane even, Jamie
[2008/07/05 9:53] Alexicon Kurka: yes I can Jamie
[2008/07/05 9:53] You: (Prin, I’d save more than L$4000 to retire, personally)
[2008/07/05 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7 days to buy an *item*!?
[2008/07/05 9:53] You: OK 🙂 propose a shorter time, Gwyn
[2008/07/05 9:54] Alexicon Kurka: np Gwyn
[2008/07/05 9:54] MT Lundquist: hi soro
[2008/07/05 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry, I don’t get that
[2008/07/05 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i motion that gwyn owns the guided tour
[2008/07/05 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: really
[2008/07/05 9:54] You: I was told by a flower wearing friend once that we all are volunteers ultimately and such have to be reasonable 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: so does sudane run this place or what?
[2008/07/05 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed…
[2008/07/05 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2008/07/05 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: so lets let sudane decided who owns the guided tour
[2008/07/05 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: At least she’s stalling it 😀
[2008/07/05 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, ok
[2008/07/05 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: oHHH NO its not sudanes stim?
[2008/07/05 9:55] You: OK 🙂 Princess moved that the tour be owned by Gwyn. Any second or reactions to that?
[2008/07/05 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOO i take it back
[2008/07/05 9:55] Alexicon Kurka: life would be much simpler if you buy a tranferrable version thePrincess
[2008/07/05 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s plain stupid!
[2008/07/05 9:55] You: oopsie 🙂 OK
[2008/07/05 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: I MOVE THAT SUDANE BE AUDITED
[2008/07/05 9:55] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/07/05 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: well
[2008/07/05 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: chickens
[2008/07/05 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, according to my bad memory,
[2008/07/05 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: ten foot pole again
[2008/07/05 9:55] You: I think we’re all talking about a general topic here, so even though that’s a bit off agenda, I think it’s relevant
[2008/07/05 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Treasurer has to give a monthly account on the finances
[2008/07/05 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: just like the forum we are so scared of sudane we are joke
[2008/07/05 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, I haven’t seen that in a while.
[2008/07/05 9:56] You: we do have a motion and second. I have some discussion. Maybe others do too? Gwyn?
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: well we dont have a proper audit ever
[2008/07/05 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’d certainly second a motion to see that
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: i wanna see a bank statement
[2008/07/05 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: mark out the RL Name
[2008/07/05 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh!
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: yah@
[2008/07/05 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, that’s against the LL ToS 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: where is the alleged 5k
[2008/07/05 9:56] You: hm I doubt there is one 🙂 I suspect there only is an SL account
[2008/07/05 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m afraid I cannot agree with that 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: what!
[2008/07/05 9:56] MT Lundquist: whys it against tos
[2008/07/05 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: loll.. cds is a total complete joke!
[2008/07/05 9:56] You: Prin, as you know well, avatrs can run a positive balance in the LL acct
[2008/07/05 9:56] You: I assume that, if we have a reserve, that’s where it sits
[2008/07/05 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean a rl bank account statement
[2008/07/05 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes they can, and we can’t force people to reveal their RL data 😉
[2008/07/05 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: assume!
[2008/07/05 9:57] You: but we had a budget meeting with our treasurer to ask such questions 🙂
[2008/07/05 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: force?
[2008/07/05 9:57] You: sorry you weren’t able to join us.
[2008/07/05 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I mean through a request in the RA, Prin)
[2008/07/05 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: if shes got or hes got a money of ours…………….
[2008/07/05 9:57] You: I suggest an amendment to your motion
[2008/07/05 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think there is a bank account, just a running account with LL
[2008/07/05 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: then she needs to show us.. and take her name and mark out all rl datea but our money
[2008/07/05 9:57] You: … for one thing an “audit” means an expert outside review at a certain level which costs singificant RL money.
[2008/07/05 9:57] MT Lundquist: so we have 5kus in linden labs?
[2008/07/05 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: well if shes keep ing 5k in lindens?
[2008/07/05 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, it’s not *Sudane* that has the money, it’s Rudeen
[2008/07/05 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: so the 5k is in lindens with LL
[2008/07/05 9:58] You: .. so I prefer “review” as a word
[2008/07/05 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: and we never let her withdraw
[2008/07/05 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, it’s 5k US$ with LL (LL allows both L$ and US$)
[2008/07/05 9:58] MT Lundquist: so if linden go bust or change their rules
[2008/07/05 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: they are the same person..??? who ever it doesnt matter
[2008/07/05 9:58] You: .. for another there are in fact some ToS issues here
[2008/07/05 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah so does she take money out
[2008/07/05 9:58] MT Lundquist: cds loses $5kUS
[2008/07/05 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: its just we have no clue what this really really is ..
[2008/07/05 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: its a joke is what it is
[2008/07/05 9:59] Alexicon Kurka: so will you provide us with the exact data of the item you wish to buy thePrincess?
[2008/07/05 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: brb im hungry
[2008/07/05 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The difference is that the “Rudeen” account has a separate login and password than Sudane’s 😉 The point being that different people might need to have access to the Estate Owner, say, if an accident happens, or the Treasurer changes or steps down, etc
[2008/07/05 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT, *all* dealing with LL has risks
[2008/07/05 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: its in the RA notes from ages ago.. six months ago..
[2008/07/05 9:59] You: Unfortunately Alex we have diverted at the members’ request friom the tour device issue to an auditing issue
[2008/07/05 9:59] MT Lundquist: yes but the moneys not even working
[2008/07/05 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, first things first.
[2008/07/05 10:00] DivineLolita Demonia: me too.. thank you for letting me sit in.. au revoir….
[2008/07/05 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a budget, right?
[2008/07/05 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the budget approved specifically that Prin was allowed to buy a guided tour thingy?
[2008/07/05 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m right so far?
[2008/07/05 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, it was not a “vague request” for “some money expenditure in the future”
[2008/07/05 10:01] You: .. so I move to amend Prin’s motion to convey to Sudane as CDS treasurer three things: (a) thanks for the presentation last month, (b) confirmation that the alt Rudeen Edo only holds CDS assets, and (c) her suggestion for a neutral party who can have full access to Rudeen’s LL acct US dollar and L$ transactions logs … for purposes of a review for conformity to the posted monthly financials.
[2008/07/05 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but a specific request: Prin wants to buy a guided tour thingy
[2008/07/05 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we’ve approved it
[2008/07/05 10:01] You: 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now she needs the money
[2008/07/05 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it gets transferred to Prin. What’s the problem?
[2008/07/05 10:01] You: but Alexi wishes it to be owned by someone who has CDS executive powers
[2008/07/05 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s Alex’s *wish*
[2008/07/05 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Alex
[2008/07/05 10:01] You: Gwyn, I think he has answered us by saying, I will not approve the money until I know who will own the device
[2008/07/05 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If we approved it would be Prin, it’s prin!
[2008/07/05 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If Alex dislikes the idea,
[2008/07/05 10:02] You: speak up if I am getting this wrong please Alex 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m willing to consider approving that it goes to someone else, but…
[2008/07/05 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (since our words are not written in stone etc)
[2008/07/05 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But… that’s not what we’ve approved, is it?
[2008/07/05 10:02] You: Hmmm Gwyn: would the RA’s act specify ownership too? I guess it certainly can if we so act
[2008/07/05 10:02] You: This was before my time on RA 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I don’t remember the exact phrasing either
[2008/07/05 10:03] Alexicon Kurka: I want such gadgets to be owned or have a back up from the exec indeed
[2008/07/05 10:03] You: Prin? Did it say “Prin will own it?” or do we want to CYHANGE it to say that NOW?
[2008/07/05 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *had* the idea that the RA had approved Prin’s request
[2008/07/05 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well ok
[2008/07/05 10:03] You: Me too Gwyn – but not that ownership was specified
[2008/07/05 10:03] MT Lundquist: i dont either i was getting prices for it at the time
[2008/07/05 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with allowing Alex to decide ownership
[2008/07/05 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seems like an executive act to me 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it makes our work simpler.
[2008/07/05 10:04] MT Lundquist: does the owner have to program it?
[2008/07/05 10:04] You: OK, then — if that is the appropriate resolution, I see only two ways out. Either (a) Alexi approved Sudane to forwrad money to Prin, and she buys transferable .. or (b) Alexi approved someone else to go buy it now
[2008/07/05 10:04] Alexicon Kurka: so we all agree that Gwyn will own it? It is still much better if thePrincess can buy a tranferable version
[2008/07/05 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… if there are no objections, Alex has to nominate someone to own the thingy, scrap money out of our dear treasurer, buy it, end of story
[2008/07/05 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why me??? lol
[2008/07/05 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: what is the issue
[2008/07/05 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second Jamie’s suggestion anyway
[2008/07/05 10:04] You: um it only responds to commands from hair flowers?
[2008/07/05 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Jamie
[2008/07/05 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: no gwyns not going to own the damn guided tour
[2008/07/05 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: what the is that about.. i said that as a joke!
[2008/07/05 10:05] You: Alex, will you approve Su giving Prin the money to buy a transferable version and then transfer it to whoever you like?
[2008/07/05 10:05] You: (if you say yes i think we are done)
[2008/07/05 10:05] Alexicon Kurka: yes np Jamie that’s the best
[2008/07/05 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: so jamie de….wait.. alexicon decideds who gets to put the tour out
[2008/07/05 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: when we had committees and it was approved by the RA already
[2008/07/05 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: the path everything was approved by the rA
[2008/07/05 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: this is absurd
[2008/07/05 10:06] Alexicon Kurka: thePrincess will you please anticipate and look for a transfer version?
[2008/07/05 10:07] Soro Dagostino: Hmmm, point of information?
[2008/07/05 10:07] Soro Dagostino: Are there minutes of that meeting?
[2008/07/05 10:07] MT Lundquist: when i looked they were non trasferable
[2008/07/05 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A bit, I agree, prin, but I’d say that approving the budget is the RA’s problem; getting the item bought is the Exec’s
[2008/07/05 10:07] MT Lundquist: and if they still are then we have a problem
[2008/07/05 10:07] You: um Prin? RA *CAN* legislate who owns it if we like – but I do not think we have done so
[2008/07/05 10:07] ThePrincess Parisi: we can ask the creator to sell us one that is transfer, but if he is smart it will cost a lot more
[2008/07/05 10:08] You: (Soro, yes, look here:)
[2008/07/05 10:08] You: viewforum.php?f=2
[2008/07/05 10:08] Soro Dagostino: kk
[2008/07/05 10:08] Soro Dagostino: later.
[2008/07/05 10:08] You: soooo if prin finds it’s nontransferable then Alexi needs to nominate someone to own it, yes?
[2008/07/05 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/07/05 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: let alexicon find the darn thing i dont haeve the time
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: this is ridiculous.. i move empeach
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: six doarn munthis
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: six months
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: later
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: and hes saying a weird thing about who owns the thing are you nuts
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: its been six months
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: and he comes up with this.. defying what we passed
[2008/07/05 10:09] You: hm well we have three actions on the table 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: in teh LAST session
[2008/07/05 10:09] You: .. would evveryone give me a minute to untangle them please
[2008/07/05 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/07/05 10:10] Alexicon Kurka: dear tP you did not anticipate at all at my request to look for a transfer version months ago
[2008/07/05 10:10] You: 1. audit issue – motion and amendment pending – on the table (on hold) for a bit
[2008/07/05 10:10] You: (and I do want to get back to that)
[2008/07/05 10:10] You: 2.
[2008/07/05 10:10] You: this reimbursement — which has turned out to be a tour vehicle purchase, not a reimbursement
[2008/07/05 10:10] You: and 3.
[2008/07/05 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO i dont even know if its transfer or not! its 4k lindens
[2008/07/05 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: do you know how much money that is
[2008/07/05 10:10] You: Prin’s motion to impeach
[2008/07/05 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: omg!
[2008/07/05 10:11] You: 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: 4k lindens
[2008/07/05 10:11] You: Prin can I finish?
[2008/07/05 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/07/05 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: its less than we spend on lunch
[2008/07/05 10:14] You: so
[2008/07/05 10:14] You: sigh
[2008/07/05 10:14] MT Lundquist: did i crash or did everyine stop talking
[2008/07/05 10:14] You: Can we finish the tour vehicle issue please first
[2008/07/05 10:14] Alexicon Kurka: I was wondering the same
[2008/07/05 10:14] You: a little quiet’s probably good for the RA 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn was waiting for Jamie to finish
[2008/07/05 10:14] ThePrincess Parisi: me too
[2008/07/05 10:15] You: I believe Alexi has agreed to have a copy of the vehicle prin identified purchased, by an appropriate executive person, as soon as Prin identifies it.
[2008/07/05 10:15] You: Gwyn did I hear you say that’s unaccceptable?
[2008/07/05 10:15] Alexicon Kurka: yes
[2008/07/05 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: this is absurd… this was said six months ago in the last RA session
[2008/07/05 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: this is totally unacceptable
[2008/07/05 10:15] You: well we will get to yotu motion to impeach in a sec 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:15] ThePrincess Parisi: my move to empeach stands
[2008/07/05 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Jamie
[2008/07/05 10:15] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/07/05 10:16] You: Gwyn’s got the floor
[2008/07/05 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know, I tend to agree with Prin on this
[2008/07/05 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: this happened six months ago, and he should not have to ask now what the thing is even
[2008/07/05 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: WHY did we take SIX months for that?!
[2008/07/05 10:16] ThePrincess Parisi: great move for you politically gwyen
[2008/07/05 10:16] You: Alex? question for you
[2008/07/05 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sorry, Alex, but… can you provide us with a reasonable explanation why this wasn’t done months ago?
[2008/07/05 10:16] You: (Gwyn’s, not mine)
[2008/07/05 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s also the RA’s duty to figure out why things are not working, so my question stands.
[2008/07/05 10:17] You: …
[2008/07/05 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And depending on the answer I might second Prin’s motion as well 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:17] Alexicon Kurka: because the Princess did not react sevral times to my request for a transfearable version and nobody could think of a better solution for the ownership/use
[2008/07/05 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH.
[2008/07/05 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we’re getting somewhere 😀
[2008/07/05 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: that is LIE
[2008/07/05 10:17] You: So there’s disdagreement. Noted.
[2008/07/05 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: when six months ago was i not in world allt he time
[2008/07/05 10:18] You: Aleix is there any obstacle *now* to that probelm of who owns?
[2008/07/05 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: read the debates ..r ead my commsiion meetings on teh guided tour
[2008/07/05 10:18] Alexicon Kurka: did you even take contact with the creator asking him/her for a version suited for us?
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: no one told me it wasnt suited til five months after the fact
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: you didnt mention that til we called you infront of the RA
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: about it
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: this is a red herring you have made up
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and its a new issue
[2008/07/05 10:19] Alexicon Kurka: we used to have long talks six months ago thePrincess
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: and the RA approved it ffs..
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: yes and you never gave me the meony then too
[2008/07/05 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, there is a slight detail here… I’m not sure it’s Prin’s ‘duty’ to track down these details anyway… that’s why we have an executive
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i asked and asked
[2008/07/05 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you gwyeneth
[2008/07/05 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m just trying to *understand* the root of the problem
[2008/07/05 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: sudane maybe
[2008/07/05 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: if she wont give him the money
[2008/07/05 10:20] Alexicon Kurka: I do not have any details of the gadget anyway
[2008/07/05 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: why do YOU ?
[2008/07/05 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: it was passed by the RA and approved as a budget item
[2008/07/05 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: its NOT up to you
[2008/07/05 10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean hmm let me give another silly example. Suppose that we decided today to move all of the CDS into There.com or Kaneva. It’s not up to the RA members to deal with the change, we might not be technical enough for that; that’s why we have an Executive who will handle those things
[2008/07/05 10:21] Alexicon Kurka: I was asked to start the IP contracts and a consistend policie on CDS assets
[2008/07/05 10:21] You: .. while we’re wandering a bit on this agenda, budget control is a *key* issue for the RA, so I think we’re using our time entirely properly … ah good point Alex. What came of that?
[2008/07/05 10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, that’s a reasonable request to get, Alex, but how does it interfere with the issue we’re discussing?
[2008/07/05 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: and lets bring up the christmas party too
[2008/07/05 10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes)
[2008/07/05 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: and the other event i was to be reimbursed for
[2008/07/05 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/07/05 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: what is that crhistmas party not transfer?
[2008/07/05 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: was the band supposed be transfer
[2008/07/05 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: wheres the montey for that.. OH YOU wanted money from CDS
[2008/07/05 10:22] Alexicon Kurka: there has been a lot of chat about assets bought in the past and not been availablke to cds
[2008/07/05 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: but you didnt want anyone else to get any.. like we are taking them
[2008/07/05 10:22] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah and you wanted to PAID to be chancellor
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: so you are pod that didnt happen and taking it out on all of us
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: pod
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: means.. pissed off
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: ‘d
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: angry
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean pod means angry
[2008/07/05 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m not very happy either!
[2008/07/05 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s *July*
[2008/07/05 10:23] Alexicon Kurka: it was not clear to me that I should check the details, but in this case I should have the details of the gadget anyway
[2008/07/05 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Christmas party was… December, usually they are in December?
[2008/07/05 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: and what on earth is your reson fro me not getting reimbursed for the crhirsmas party and the snow melt
[2008/07/05 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: tell me these too
[2008/07/05 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: snow melt was transfer
[2008/07/05 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn actually seconds Prin’s question
[2008/07/05 10:24] Alexicon Kurka: there was no reimbushment agreement about the christmas party
[2008/07/05 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: you tried to finagle a way to get paid to be chancellor
[2008/07/05 10:24] Alexicon Kurka: it was your initiative
[2008/07/05 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: there was TOO
[2008/07/05 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m pretty sure it was a RA-sponsored event…
[2008/07/05 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: and so the snow melt
[2008/07/05 10:24] You: so hm – at some point I would like this to resolve as a proposal for action from someone – but as Alexi is here and available for questions, that seems to be helpful
[2008/07/05 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in the sense that we’ve approved a budget for it, right?
[2008/07/05 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Jamie
[2008/07/05 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: yes we have events approved.. like 400k its measley but i didnt even get that
[2008/07/05 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Something is clearly wrong in the whole process
[2008/07/05 10:25] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/07/05 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need to figure out what’s wrong and move a motion to fix it
[2008/07/05 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: and ROSE asked me to pay for the christmas party.. it was 10k of OUR money
[2008/07/05 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye. And that’s not correct.
[2008/07/05 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: we did it per the PIO
[2008/07/05 10:25] Alexicon Kurka: Rose is not a part of the exec
[2008/07/05 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: but we only wanted the 400l
[2008/07/05 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: well it was approved by the RA
[2008/07/05 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was indeed.
[2008/07/05 10:26] Alexicon Kurka: long after your party that was approved by the RA
[2008/07/05 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree that Rose might NOT have had the right to interfere or make comments,
[2008/07/05 10:26] Alexicon Kurka: we cannot pay back
[2008/07/05 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: you werent even in office
[2008/07/05 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: lol………!!!!
[2008/07/05 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but that doesn’t change anything.
[2008/07/05 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: its NOT YOUR MONEY
[2008/07/05 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, the “we” is the CDs.
[2008/07/05 10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s OUR money
[2008/07/05 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: you are mad we wouldnt pay you for your precious time to be chancellor
[2008/07/05 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: thats what you wanted
[2008/07/05 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we empeach
[2008/07/05 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I don’t know if that’s right, Prin, that’s just a wild accusation. The facts are, however, that nobody is being reimbursed for approved expenses, which is not correct.
[2008/07/05 10:27] Soro Dagostino: Excuse me? Aren’t there three motions on the floor now?
[2008/07/05 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And new things get approved, but ‘technicalities’ prevent them to be bought.
[2008/07/05 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: has ANYTHING been paid for or reimbursed other that your own things alexicon.. yours and arrias?
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: BELLS has not been reimbursed or paid either
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: she spent a lot on the ball.. NOTHING
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: she was paid back nothing yet
[2008/07/05 10:28] Alexicon Kurka: I have got 0L from the cds since I am chancellor
[2008/07/05 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the RA’s work is being questioned: we approve budgets, we approve events, we approve reimbursements… but nobody gets paid
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: her own money
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: NO ONE
[2008/07/05 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alex, the Chancellor is an unpaid position
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: but he wanted his money for what he does.
[2008/07/05 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (as is the RA!)
[2008/07/05 10:28] Alexicon Kurka: I find it extremely inappropriate the way you express yourself tP
[2008/07/05 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: so what?
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont care what you find inappropriate thats how i express myself
[2008/07/05 10:29] Alexicon Kurka: [10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: has ANYTHING been paid for or reimbursed other that your own things alexicon.. yours and arrias?
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: red herring
[2008/07/05 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, prin, I’d also request that you stopped claiming things about Alex that you don’t know if they’re right or not 🙂 It becomes just personal attacks and nothing more
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: wella nswer this then
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: i asked a question
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: has ANTYING been reimbursed
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: Bells hasnt been
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: mine hasnt
[2008/07/05 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, I wish to know an answer to that too.
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: is it personal against us ..
[2008/07/05 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: or universal
[2008/07/05 10:30] Alexicon Kurka: there has been little expenses
[2008/07/05 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: what?
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: what does that mean
[2008/07/05 10:30] Alexicon Kurka: it’s all in the reports of Sudane
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: bells wasnt little
[2008/07/05 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t know if that doesn’t make things worse 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: what did you reimburse bells ?
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: she sent you notecards with epxpenses
[2008/07/05 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, what is the criteria then to pay some people, and not others?
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: did you pay her back
[2008/07/05 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: who have you chosen to reimburse
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we impeach
[2008/07/05 10:31] MT Lundquist: Alex has anyone been reembursed?
[2008/07/05 10:31] Alexicon Kurka: I never recieved expenses statements from Bells
[2008/07/05 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont belive that
[2008/07/05 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And from Prin?
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i have asked on the forum even cos you didnt answer me
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: and in RA
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: and in public
[2008/07/05 10:31] Alexicon Kurka: we have been discussing the tour thing with the Princess for at least a month
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: and notecard
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: SIX MONTHS
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: SIX MONTHS
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: SIX MONTHS
[2008/07/05 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: SIX
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: 2 4
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: 5 6
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: one month .. my ass
[2008/07/05 10:32] Alexicon Kurka: did you either IMed the creator yourself, or did you provide me with his/her data so that I can look for a solution?
[2008/07/05 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, point taken 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: ok im gonna get mouthy.. i cant take this anymore
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: there is no provblem.. six months or more ago the RA approved an item to be boought with MONEY
[2008/07/05 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right,
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: its not up to you to make more points on it
[2008/07/05 10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s our understanding too.
[2008/07/05 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: impeach
[2008/07/05 10:33] You: so? on the TOUR is there an act we wish to take as RA? (Other than impeach – that’s NEXT on the agenda) Or do we want to see if Alexi is able to make progress this week, and come back to it?
[2008/07/05 10:33] Alexicon Kurka: I was asked to have a consistent policy on CDS assets
[2008/07/05 10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I imagine that was a request from the RA; right?
[2008/07/05 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: another week!!!!!!
[2008/07/05 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: why would you beat your head against the wall with this man
[2008/07/05 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: get it over with
[2008/07/05 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: he wont do anything
[2008/07/05 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: we gave him a week last week
[2008/07/05 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’d like to know the reasons why, Prin
[2008/07/05 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i should have voted for jamie.
[2008/07/05 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s a point. So…
[2008/07/05 10:34] MT Lundquist: i’ll ask again has anyone been reembursed alex?
[2008/07/05 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT, apparently yes, and it’s on Sudane’s report, which I don’t have a link to
[2008/07/05 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: so has alexicon reimbursed himself for anything?
[2008/07/05 10:35] Alexicon Kurka: no
[2008/07/05 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand the reason for reimbursing some and not others was that the Executive didn’t receive a notecard with the expenses.
[2008/07/05 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that right?
[2008/07/05 10:35] You: I think Su told us there have been virutaly NO payments this term other than tier, Prin
[2008/07/05 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree jamie
[2008/07/05 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: and i know of four requests
[2008/07/05 10:35] Alexicon Kurka: I have on the contrary invested for several objects and services
[2008/07/05 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘virtually’ is too vague
[2008/07/05 10:35] Alexicon Kurka: without asking for reimbushment
[2008/07/05 10:36] Alexicon Kurka: like the gadget used for the survey
[2008/07/05 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: we do all the time!
[2008/07/05 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: this is a point of process.. i dont need 15 dollars
[2008/07/05 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Alex, that’s your privilege and prerrogative; also, you have had items on the budget too which haven’t been bought yet
[2008/07/05 10:36] You: hm gwyn to some extent THAT concern should go to the AUDIT issue I think
[2008/07/05 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin, yes, exactly
[2008/07/05 10:36] You: sooo …
[2008/07/05 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: ive made 4k since we have been sitting here ffs
[2008/07/05 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, my point here is to try to understand WHAT is wrong, and if the RA can pass a motion to fix it.
[2008/07/05 10:37] ThePrincess Parisi: its the POINT
[2008/07/05 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But so far I haven’t understood everything. In some cases, it’s process (people not sending notecards with expenses, or those notecards never arriving)
[2008/07/05 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In other cases, it seems conflicting demands: on one hand the RA approves things to be bought; on the other it requires that these things are checked and controlled for correct permissions or something
[2008/07/05 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And in some cases I haven’t figured out yet what failed.
[2008/07/05 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, for point one… notecards with expenses not arriving… we need to change the procedures somehow
[2008/07/05 10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so that the RA can make an audit too
[2008/07/05 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the “conflicting demands” issue I have way more problems, since we don’t know ALL demands that have been contardictory!… we’re just finding out some cases
[2008/07/05 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And others I don’t understand anything 🙁
[2008/07/05 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/05 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn is not so clever
[2008/07/05 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So perhaps we can review all cases we know about?…
[2008/07/05 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s start with the Christmas party.
[2008/07/05 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So allegedly Bells never sent a notecard with expenses, is taht so, Alex?
[2008/07/05 10:40] Alexicon Kurka: hehe
[2008/07/05 10:40] Alexicon Kurka: no
[2008/07/05 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s request Bells to send it again.
[2008/07/05 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And see if it arrives.
[2008/07/05 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And what happens afterwards 😉
[2008/07/05 10:40] You: I want us to deal with Prin’s audit motion and impeach motion but so far — first — we’re having Q&A time, which I assume all members wish to continue for a bit.
[2008/07/05 10:40] Alexicon Kurka: and I have talked to her from time to time, she didnt say anything about it
[2008/07/05 10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next… Prin, were there more expenses for teh Christmas party?
[2008/07/05 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry for taking time, jamie, but I feel that if we can figure it *all* out, this might never happen again!
[2008/07/05 10:41] Alexicon Kurka: but there was no budget for the christmas party
[2008/07/05 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/07/05 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: there are vent bugets
[2008/07/05 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: event
[2008/07/05 10:41] MT Lundquist: brb
[2008/07/05 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi: it was budgetted
[2008/07/05 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand that there are event budgets indeed, eg L$5k/month or so
[2008/07/05 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: thats new
[2008/07/05 10:42] Alexicon Kurka: this was decided after the Christmas party
[2008/07/05 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: then it was only 400l
[2008/07/05 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 400! oh
[2008/07/05 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, well
[2008/07/05 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: but it was bugetd before
[2008/07/05 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and then we raised it after
[2008/07/05 10:42] ThePrincess Parisi: but i should have gotten my 400l
[2008/07/05 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: since i spent 10k..
[2008/07/05 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2008/07/05 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you sent a note of expenses to the Chancellor too, Prin?
[2008/07/05 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/07/05 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i asked for 400l and told him the band etc.. was 10k
[2008/07/05 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you did receive the notecard, Alex?
[2008/07/05 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: live music …
[2008/07/05 10:43] Alexicon Kurka: no notecrd
[2008/07/05 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: and the snow melt.. well, i was there
[2008/07/05 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: does the constitution say a notecard is due
[2008/07/05 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: or some rules.. or do you just make that up
[2008/07/05 10:44] MT Lundquist: back
[2008/07/05 10:44] Alexicon Kurka: I also made expenses for the snow melt, as Naftali did too thePrincess
[2008/07/05 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: right! and i padi the band 7k for the first one
[2008/07/05 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: so if you refuse me the 400l ok .. the first noe you didnt do anything
[2008/07/05 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: the first snow melt i did it all alexicon
[2008/07/05 10:45] You: sooo?
[2008/07/05 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i got a tip from someone… one
[2008/07/05 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont care, its the POINT
[2008/07/05 10:45] You: Given the time I would like to see if in 2 minutes we want to come to a proposed action, hm?
[2008/07/05 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i have money its the point
[2008/07/05 10:46] Soro Dagostino: It has been interesting, RL calls.
[2008/07/05 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: lucky dog
[2008/07/05 10:46] Jamie Palisades looks over to the empty seat with a Llewelyn shaped imprint on it
[2008/07/05 10:46] You: Ta Soro
[2008/07/05 10:46] MT Lundquist: did she crash or leave
[2008/07/05 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: she said she had to go at 1030
[2008/07/05 10:47] You: OK – I have heard no proposals for an action by the RA on the reimb generally – but I have heard Alexi say he’d get the tour purchased as soon as Prin identifies it
[2008/07/05 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: no quorum
[2008/07/05 10:47] You: and yes I think she timed out
[2008/07/05 10:47] You: agrred Prin
[2008/07/05 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: I IDENTIFIED IT SIX MONTH AGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
[2008/07/05 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: SEARCH GUIDED TOUR
[2008/07/05 10:47] You: May I suggest we pick up the pending motions next week?
[2008/07/05 10:47] You: I know you did. None of us are happy about the poor communictaion and lack of resolution here
[2008/07/05 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: I MOVE WE EMPEACH ALEXICON NEXT WEEK
[2008/07/05 10:47] Alexicon Kurka: I have all the LMs of the tours we have visited thePrincess
[2008/07/05 10:48] Alexicon Kurka: but not hte one you have chosen
[2008/07/05 10:48] You: I need to go look amd see what that takes, and will imnform all partuies.
[2008/07/05 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: THE RA APPROVED ONE
[2008/07/05 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: I DIDNT CHOOSE IT… THE RA DID
[2008/07/05 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: IT SNOT MINE..I ONLY LED THE COMMITTEEE
[2008/07/05 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: if you own it im sure it will all be fine
[2008/07/05 10:49] MT Lundquist: wb gwyn
[2008/07/05 10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry!
[2008/07/05 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: to impeach we just vote
[2008/07/05 10:49] You: and I apoligize to you all for a sort of “free form” meeting but I think this issue was in fact the most impoprtant one. What I plan to do is talk to each of Su, Alex and Prin about BOTH the tour AND the other motions and see if we can get to some kind of orderly resolution.
[2008/07/05 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: cos it takes a majority
[2008/07/05 10:49] You: not sure about that prin
[2008/07/05 10:49] You: there’s a special law for impeachment
[2008/07/05 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: i am
[2008/07/05 10:49] You: Gwyn you are our constitution expert 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:50] You: and I myself must leave in 10 mins
[2008/07/05 10:50] You: I suggest if Prin wants to pursue impeachment we do that next week, not try it now
[2008/07/05 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, there is a “removal from office” and an impeachment
[2008/07/05 10:50] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/07/05 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to check up on the difference
[2008/07/05 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: i guess i can just leave
[2008/07/05 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: maybe thats easier
[2008/07/05 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I have 10 minutes for that? hehe
[2008/07/05 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: me too
[2008/07/05 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we impeach or remove from office which ever is faster
[2008/07/05 10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Probably removal, impeachment goes through the SC
[2008/07/05 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: remove
[2008/07/05 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we remove
[2008/07/05 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: for being totally and completely incompetent
[2008/07/05 10:51] ThePrincess Parisi: not to mention wanted to get paid
[2008/07/05 10:51] You: 🙂 ..I note we have closed the reimbusements/tour issue for now, and have a motion on audit pending.
[2008/07/05 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2008/07/05 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I definitely want an audit
[2008/07/05 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: not me.. he wanted to get paid to be chancellor
[2008/07/05 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we might figure out from it,
[2008/07/05 10:52] You: Prin wants to take up her impeachment motion – this is an agenda amendment. Any objection to her request that we do so?
[2008/07/05 10:52] MT Lundquist: none
[2008/07/05 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, no objections, but I wish just to check up on the procedures
[2008/07/05 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: hes got secondary gain
[2008/07/05 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: mt does
[2008/07/05 10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly the wiki seems to be down 🙁
[2008/07/05 10:52] MT Lundquist: what?
[2008/07/05 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/05 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: ok just vote to remove from office
[2008/07/05 10:53] You: 🙂 the constitution is unavailable, says gwyn
[2008/07/05 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: let the SC tell us we did it wrong
[2008/07/05 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: vote
[2008/07/05 10:53] You: I am not confident we can do this so quickly, so personally would vote against it today
[2008/07/05 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, well, I would also not vote it today, for one reason only —
[2008/07/05 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: we can too
[2008/07/05 10:53] Alexicon Kurka: is the version on neufreistd nit correct?
[2008/07/05 10:53] You: I agree you can
[2008/07/05 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it might be that Alex’s ‘inaction’ comes simply from unexisting/conflicting procedures
[2008/07/05 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alex, well not quite
[2008/07/05 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: sigh.. dnate didnt have a problem
[2008/07/05 10:54] You: Prin has moved to remove Alexi from office. I note we’re a little short of being certain about the procedure, but the intent seems clear enough. Is there a second?
[2008/07/05 10:55] Jamie Palisades listens for a second – or not
[2008/07/05 10:55] You: Motion dies for lack of second then
[2008/07/05 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/05 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “7. The Chancellor may be removed from office prior to the expiration of the term of office by at least a two thirds vote of the Representative Assembly. ”
[2008/07/05 10:56] You: I think we should take up the audit motion – which ahas been amended – but I think we should do this as our first item next week
[2008/07/05 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we don’t have a quorum for that vote to pass anyway
[2008/07/05 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/05 10:56] You: ah thx Gwyn – what I was concerend about – requires 5
[2008/07/05 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes it does
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll set the Chancellor a challenge 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To take a look at all requests for money that have been made and never paid,
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and for each one,
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: list why it wasn’t paid
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eg: Bells & prin — no notecard received
[2008/07/05 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: mizou too i think
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tourist guide, conflicting requests regarding ownership
[2008/07/05 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good one
[2008/07/05 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we’ll check this out with the audit to be done on the Treasury,
[2008/07/05 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: ownership? lol who is he to make an issue of that
[2008/07/05 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and see if the reasons for not paying have any plausible excuse
[2008/07/05 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t know, Prin, so I wish to ask 🙂
[2008/07/05 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor is, indeed, the manager (on behalf of the CDS) of land and content
[2008/07/05 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But there are obviously rules for that
[2008/07/05 10:59] You: Mindful of the time, if Gwyn’s done, I suggest we adjourn for today, and plan to do some one on one followup
[2008/07/05 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (b) to expend monies held by the Office of the Chancellor of Neufreistadt-CDS for the administration and management of public facilities (including, but not limited to, roadways, signage, public buildings, public events and similar), and to discharge any other duties or powers of the Office of the Chancellor conferred by this Act or any other Act of the Representative Assembly;
[2008/07/05 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (one of the powers of the Chancellor)
[2008/07/05 11:01] You: Let me excuse myself with apologies 🙂 and thanks everyoine for working to sort out this long tangle of tough issues
[2008/07/05 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, it seems to be a critical one, jamie
[2008/07/05 11:01] MT Lundquist: bye jamie
[2008/07/05 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: slkdjf;waste f ime
[2008/07/05 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: a waste of time
[2008/07/05 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: again
[2008/07/05 11:01] You: perhaps Prin – we’ll see. Thank you for coming, Alexi
[2008/07/05 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, it wasn’t a waste, Prin, I think we never addressed this “properly”. We just make demands and get furious because the demands are never complied with,
[2008/07/05 11:01] Alexicon Kurka: yes I have top leave too, have a nice weekend. Please tP provide me or Jammie with the details of the tour.
[2008/07/05 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but we never understand *why*
[2008/07/05 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And let’s ask Mizou, Bells, and Prin to send the notecards again
[2008/07/05 11:02] MT Lundquist: bye alex
[2008/07/05 11:02] Alexicon Kurka: thanks for the constructuive thought Gwyn
[2008/07/05 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s clear that a notecard-based system is NOT going to work
[2008/07/05 11:02] You: on the other hand gwyn – we have given no law that constraints the turn around time either – smile
[2008/07/05 11:02] You: ta for now
[2008/07/05 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie
[2008/07/05 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you 🙂
[2008/07/05 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: have a lovely weekend!
[2008/07/05 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: and you
[2008/07/05 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks :)) you too
[end]
RA Meeting: July 12, 2008
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & plans. Note RA election schedule.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
(None.)
2. Review of open commissions (20 mins: 09h20 – 09h40)
— ethics & conflicts
— statutory review / revision
— corporate entity review
— any other?
3. Sim 4 & general master plan: update (10 mins: 09h40 – 09h50)
NEW ITEMS
4. Other?
5. Open Discussion (10 mins.: 09h50-10h00)
Adjournment: 10h00
Transcript of 12 July 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Neufreistadt Rathaus
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items
====
[2008/07/12 9:16] Danton Sideways: You’ll have to read the book 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: someone can read it to me
[2008/07/12 9:16] You: Folks, we are quorate, shall we get started? 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: may i have the link so i can sue you
[2008/07/12 9:16] Danton Sideways: Famous French novelist
[2008/07/12 9:16] Danton Sideways: I’ll ask a 3d time – who’s tried Lively?
[2008/07/12 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: yes sir jamie
[2008/07/12 9:16] ThePrincess Parisi: wtf is LIvely
[2008/07/12 9:16] Danton Sideways: Oops
[2008/07/12 9:17] Sonja Strom: I have tried Lively
[2008/07/12 9:17] You: agenda as proposed is here: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1951
[2008/07/12 9:17] MT Lundquist: is this like a knock knock joke
[2008/07/12 9:17] You: and it’s a boring one, grin
[2008/07/12 9:17] Danton Sideways: who’s there?
[2008/07/12 9:17] Sonja Strom: it is Google’s new virtual world
[2008/07/12 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: me
[2008/07/12 9:17] You: thats for coming – this *might* be a short meeting
[2008/07/12 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: is it any good
[2008/07/12 9:17] Danton Sideways: laggy
[2008/07/12 9:17] Sonja Strom: I find it quite difficult to know how it works–
[2008/07/12 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: why will it be short.. we need to impeach the emporer
[2008/07/12 9:17] You: (there is a great blog review of Lively on Slashdot)
[2008/07/12 9:17] Sonja Strom: but it is very new
[2008/07/12 9:17] ThePrincess Parisi: mt has a bill
[2008/07/12 9:17] Danton Sideways: 😀
[2008/07/12 9:18] You: Ah good 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:18] Sonja Strom: yes, let’s tear down that Schloss!
[2008/07/12 9:18] MT Lundquist: news to me
[2008/07/12 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: he will discuss it for you…
[2008/07/12 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: mt the bill about investments
[2008/07/12 9:18] MT Lundquist: ok well not written but i can discuss
[2008/07/12 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: and i still want to impeach alexicon
[2008/07/12 9:18] You: OK then 🙂 let’s get the preliminarties out of the way
[2008/07/12 9:18] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you dear
—-
[2008/07/12 9:19] You: 1a – please indicate your assent to the transcript by saying “I assent” (or leaving if you don’t like being recorded 🙂 ) . I assent.
[2008/07/12 9:19] Danton Sideways: I assent
[2008/07/12 9:19] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/07/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i desent
[2008/07/12 9:19] ThePrincess Parisi: assend
—-
[2008/07/12 9:19] You: 1b – agenda – I had just planned that we look at the pending commisions that have no delivered – and note the election schedule for the incoming RA. Prin you mentioned two other items: mor eon inpeachment? and something on investments?
[2008/07/12 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: what ever happened to the election reform committee
[2008/07/12 9:20] Bells Semyorka: i assent
[2008/07/12 9:20] ThePrincess Parisi: and where is the 4ths im
[2008/07/12 9:20] You: prin those are two godo Qs – and ON the agendaalready 🙂 — Is the “investment” thing something we can at least have a quick intro about MT?
[2008/07/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: tes
[2008/07/12 9:21] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/07/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: something nucare has been discussing for a while
[2008/07/12 9:21] MT Lundquist: yes just say when
[2008/07/12 9:21] Danton Sideways: Jamie’s spelling is worse than usual
[2008/07/12 9:21] You: so we add “investment legislation proposal” as a brief discussion item after agenda item 2 maybe?
[2008/07/12 9:21] ThePrincess Parisi: dont upset him i dont wanna dress like a nun today
[2008/07/12 9:22] Danton Sideways: Hi Gwyn
[2008/07/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: gwennies here
[2008/07/12 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks Prin!
[2008/07/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: did you tell prok i said to f off
[2008/07/12 9:22] MT Lundquist: hi gwyn
[2008/07/12 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all
[2008/07/12 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and no, prin lol
[2008/07/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: you never do anything i tell you
[2008/07/12 9:22] Jamie Palisades grins
[2008/07/12 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prok is a *friend*
[2008/07/12 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/07/12 9:22] You: OK, so, no other adds to the agenda, hmn?
[2008/07/12 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah so are we ::))
[2008/07/12 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen wants to probably
[2008/07/12 9:23] You: 🙂
—-
[2008/07/12 9:23] You: 1c
[2008/07/12 9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well not really…
[2008/07/12 9:23] You: Anyone else who plans to speak today other than RA members? Let uis know now and we’ll reserve time.
[2008/07/12 9:23] Jamie Palisades looks around … ?
[2008/07/12 9:24] You: Nope then 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: how do i look?
—-
[2008/07/12 9:24] You: 1d
[2008/07/12 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: oh ok
[2008/07/12 9:24] You: wonderful 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:24] You: Routine notice: Please send me any corrections to the posted transcripts.
[2008/07/12 9:24] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you very much
[2008/07/12 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i am already sad..i will miss harrassing you jamie
[2008/07/12 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: can i have your home no. rl?
[2008/07/12 9:25] You: And I like the new profile pic, Prin, but I *hope* you do not throw away that Garbo shot with the Jackie O shades
[2008/07/12 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[2008/07/12 9:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ill send you your very own
[2008/07/12 9:25] You: that one was just “you” somehow, grin
[2008/07/12 9:25] You: cool
—-
[2008/07/12 9:25] You: 1e
[2008/07/12 9:25] You: schedule
[2008/07/12 9:25] You: Note please the following:
[2008/07/12 9:26] You: 1. Scheduled RA meetings on 19 and 26 July, same time, 9 am SLT
[2008/07/12 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/07/12 9:26] You: 2. RA elections open today
[2008/07/12 9:26] You: 3. Ballot closes on the 19th
[2008/07/12 9:26] You: 4. As posted, Arria (who is PIO but a candidate) asked me to organize a debate
[2008/07/12 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: is jon running it?
[2008/07/12 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: and does he have a gag order if not we need to give him one
[2008/07/12 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: officially
[2008/07/12 9:27] You: (I think so yes Prin he made the machines again from what I hear)
[2008/07/12 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The voting booths? yes
[2008/07/12 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And he know his duty, Prin
[2008/07/12 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: hes seeing the votes come in
[2008/07/12 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen he didnt follow that laswt time.. dont make me go there
[2008/07/12 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll use duct tape this time 😀
[2008/07/12 9:27] You: Debate will be either Thursday or Saturday – Not sure I get enough responses to be certain that all factions could attend, to do it this weekend
[2008/07/12 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: also on his mouth?
[2008/07/12 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[2008/07/12 9:28] You: (But no staring at Bells, she answered right away, as did several others)
[2008/07/12 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: bells is wonderful
[2008/07/12 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What time did you suggest, jamie?
[2008/07/12 9:28] You: Duct tape? (Just remember the air holes – programmers who give us lots of free expert help need to breathe, too, hmn?)
[2008/07/12 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: do you know how many pictures of myself i have .. ?? still looking jamie
[2008/07/12 9:29] You: Gwyn, I suggested SLT morning time on Thurs or Saturday
[2008/07/12 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, like 10 or 11 am?
[2008/07/12 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
[2008/07/12 9:29] You: that too late for EU?
[2008/07/12 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: saturday i think is better
[2008/07/12 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… too early! haha
[2008/07/12 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: and americans are at work on tursday
[2008/07/12 9:29] You: afrankly if it;s Satuday it;s the last poll day, a little futile
[2008/07/12 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Most Europeans should be as well 😀
[2008/07/12 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, jamie
[2008/07/12 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: who needs debates the election is a joke
[2008/07/12 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It should have been today 😉
[2008/07/12 9:30] You: well I raised it here to get some more feedback, smile
[2008/07/12 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: three factions
[2008/07/12 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/07/12 9:30] You: do you think we should just go for tomorrow?
[2008/07/12 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: how about an informal one tomorrow
[2008/07/12 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah!
[2008/07/12 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie & Prin: yes!
[2008/07/12 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: catch and catch can
[2008/07/12 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d certainly love that!
[2008/07/12 9:30] You: Sonja, frankly, I did not get much of a reaction from DPU on times, unless I missed something
[2008/07/12 9:30] MT Lundquist: do tommorrow
[2008/07/12 9:31] You: we could indeed do tomorrow
[2008/07/12 9:31] You: I will put out some messages after this meeting, see if we can get bits – I know that Bells is rep’ing NuCare and can make it,.
[2008/07/12 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: we dont even have a citizen list
[2008/07/12 9:32] You: Hm. I think Justice is out tmrw – Gwyn I will contact you to see if we can confirm a CSDF participant, and Sonja, get your help with DPU, please
[2008/07/12 9:32] You: and Prin, I have seen one
[2008/07/12 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: can we have one that would help a little
[2008/07/12 9:33] You: (I starting asking, few day ago, to make sure SC was remembering to have voting booths setup, smile)
[2008/07/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: thanks
[2008/07/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: someone needs to care
[2008/07/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: i think CDS is at an all time apathetic high
[2008/07/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: or is it just me
[2008/07/12 9:33] You: Hm – can the voting roll be public? I don’t know offhand but would *think* so. Will ask those who know.
[2008/07/12 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, ok
[2008/07/12 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: it should be public
[2008/07/12 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: sudane is supposed to be publishing it
[2008/07/12 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/07/12 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: monthly i think
[2008/07/12 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…
[2008/07/12 9:34] You: I agree. There were some forum posts about this too. We rely on factions for CDS politcs, (small ironic smile) and many of them seem moribund 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: what does that mean?
[2008/07/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: dead
[2008/07/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: we arent!
[2008/07/12 9:35] You: I have not seen many platforms this time for example – but maybe that’s partially because there are only 7 standing for 7 seats?
[2008/07/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: six
[2008/07/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: six for seven seats.. says a lot
[2008/07/12 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: bromo dropped
[2008/07/12 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that what was meant is that the factions were not always available for public debate (either on the forums or in-world)
[2008/07/12 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: fewer candidates than seats
[2008/07/12 9:36] You: this is not really on agenda but seemed worth the chatt – maybe have exhausted it for now though
[2008/07/12 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: now thats a fine statement
[2008/07/12 9:36] ThePrincess Parisi: we needed that sim .. but sudane didnt want it so she killed it
[2008/07/12 9:36] You: did he? Missed that pot – wellanyway : the way we work, factions still care about the vote bcause their relative ranking may determine who gets LRA, right?
[2008/07/12 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: he did in my opinion
[2008/07/12 9:37] You: (for now, smile)
[2008/07/12 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: moving on
[2008/07/12 9:37] You: I appreciate the input on the debates a LOT, and WILL try for tomorrow then
—-
[2008/07/12 9:37] You: 1f
[2008/07/12 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: i have to go shopping then
[2008/07/12 9:38] You: any agenda consent items? I have none
—-
[2008/07/12 9:39] You: then we have item 2 – quick survey of the outstanding commissions — then added items 2 1/2 (investment bill) and 2 3/4 (any more motions by Prin on Alexi and reimbursements)
[2008/07/12 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (quick interruption: the citizen list is here: http://tospitimou.com/cds/list.php )
[2008/07/12 9:39] You: so
[2008/07/12 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you
[2008/07/12 9:39] You: let’s do those commissions, see if our remaining work’s going to be finished up well 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* yes
[2008/07/12 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn blames herself again
—-
[2008/07/12 9:40] You: Elections first. Let me note what I do know
[2008/07/12 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[2008/07/12 9:40] You: 1. We had one Beathan I *think* chaired it.
[2008/07/12 9:41] You: 2. It was going to report something out in time to affect this current election nad did not.
[2008/07/12 9:42] You: (We’d have needed to enact anything a month or so ago to have it govern this election, I thnk.)
[2008/07/12 9:42] You: 3. Finally, we also had a perfectly good citizen’s bill from Patroklus Murakami on election reform
[2008/07/12 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi chokes
[2008/07/12 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: would you prefer fried chicken legs or wings for dinner?……100 percent of the pop likes fried chicken for dinner in a pp poll
[2008/07/12 9:44] You: we didn’t bring it to a debate or vote here yet – I have no view on it really – but to be fair, RA’ schedule and Pat’s did not bring us together in time to consider it for THIS election
[2008/07/12 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: too bad
[2008/07/12 9:45] ThePrincess Parisi: and may i say that a fellow faction not represented here is campaigning on a platform that we move too quickly
[2008/07/12 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
[2008/07/12 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we do move too quickly?!
[2008/07/12 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[2008/07/12 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: that the cds govt moves too fast
[2008/07/12 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In what universe might that be? 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: we need to slow down , per my understanding of rubyiat but ask him
[2008/07/12 9:46] ThePrincess Parisi: he hasnt visited cds from what i can tell lately.. please ask hm what he means though… i might have misunderstood
[2008/07/12 9:47] You: hm 🙂 I think Sonja and Rubaiyat are in the same faction, no?
[2008/07/12 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: oh i forgot
[2008/07/12 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja do you know what he means that we are too fast. so should i say : slow govt is good govt
[2008/07/12 9:47] Sonja Strom: I do not know.
[2008/07/12 9:48] You: so as to the election commission, smile, I will ask Pat again i he wishes to bring it no, but my sense is that election reform likely will wait for the next RA
[2008/07/12 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: he said that in his platform
[2008/07/12 9:48] You: Prin? Can we hold off on the campaign stuff and talk about the commissions for now?
[2008/07/12 9:48] ThePrincess Parisi: sure
[2008/07/12 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: hi fem.. assent
[2008/07/12 9:49] Feminist Expedition: i assent
[2008/07/12 9:49] You: OK. Anything else on elections ? Anyone want to suggest we press on with somethign in July? If not let’s move on
[2008/07/12 9:50] You: (Hi Femi, thanks)
[2008/07/12 9:50] Feminist Expedition: 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:50] MT Lundquist: hi fem
—-
[2008/07/12 9:50] You: Next commission
[2008/07/12 9:52] You: Gwyn? The unnamed “ethics & miscellany” group – I recall that some of us had bills 🙂 but we sent it to you for a bit, which time has I think expired?
[2008/07/12 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, I know 😛
[2008/07/12 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s all my fault really
[2008/07/12 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess I’m too optimistic about having time during the week
[2008/07/12 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So either we can find some time for that on the weekend, or I’m afraid I won’t be able to help on that
[2008/07/12 9:53] You: well let me ask a practical question
[2008/07/12 9:54] You: This RA will only have a few more chances to act
[2008/07/12 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: when are we going to impeach alexicon
[2008/07/12 9:54] You: hm – well when you have the right number of votes and it’s on the agenda 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:54] ThePrincess Parisi: shall we
[2008/07/12 9:55] You: staying with the agenda for the moment:)
[2008/07/12 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/12 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: ok its awfully slow
[2008/07/12 9:55] You: As to the ‘ethics’ commisson, it mostly was about conflicts of interest
[2008/07/12 9:56] ThePrincess Parisi: and did we ever vote on that bill?
[2008/07/12 9:56] You: so
[2008/07/12 9:56] You: does anyone plan to try to bring a bill on that to the RA BEFORE our term is up?
[2008/07/12 9:57] You: We did not, Prin, it was all referred to a commission which has not met
[2008/07/12 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed 😛
[2008/07/12 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as said, I do apologise
[2008/07/12 9:58] MT Lundquist: web love
[2008/07/12 9:59] You: for now, let’s keep on the positive side — it is my view that we are unlikely to get legislation about this to the table for action in the next 2 weeks
[2008/07/12 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh I agree
[2008/07/12 10:00] You: and while I regret that, I do NOT regard it as a urgent sort of issue 🙂 unlike two others I will mention in a few moments
[2008/07/12 10:00] You: so next commission 🙂
—-
[2008/07/12 10:01] You: Statutory revision
[2008/07/12 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Isn’t that the same one? 😀
[2008/07/12 10:01] You: here I am happy to say that they DID deliver
[2008/07/12 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
[2008/07/12 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and what are the results?
[2008/07/12 10:01] You: No 🙂 this is Brian’s older project
[2008/07/12 10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh ok
[2008/07/12 10:01] You: to weed out and identify expired statutes
[2008/07/12 10:02] You: and he has posted results
[2008/07/12 10:02] You: .. and I would very much like …
[2008/07/12 10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to review them and move to approve? 😀
[2008/07/12 10:02] You: .. us to turn over a nice, cleaner slate to the next RA. So …
[2008/07/12 10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be nice 😀
[2008/07/12 10:03] You: I plan to add a few bits of enacting text to the already-posted material …
[2008/07/12 10:03] You: .. and bring it for approval next week.
[2008/07/12 10:04] You: Frankly I do not think there is much of controversy tehre
[2008/07/12 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right.
[2008/07/12 10:04] You: it’s just a big, long-overdue clean up job
[2008/07/12 10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* and agrees
—-
[2008/07/12 10:04] You: now – another commission
[2008/07/12 10:05] You: which the RA gave to me to chair 1 or 2 meetings ago, and has an August reporting date
[2008/07/12 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok….
[2008/07/12 10:05] You: is the question of corporate entities
[2008/07/12 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha!
[2008/07/12 10:05] You: which Prin and Beathan and others have raised from time to time
[2008/07/12 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: According to the old CDS incorporation act?
[2008/07/12 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi is very interested
[2008/07/12 10:06] You: so I’m glad we can take in on finally 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:06] You: Gwyn we have a free hand to examine that as among the solutions grin
[2008/07/12 10:06] You: so be advised …
[2008/07/12 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:07] You: I plan to hold afirst meeting next Saturday after RA
[2008/07/12 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah which is always hard for me
[2008/07/12 10:07] You: and will post some material for discussion before then, smile
[2008/07/12 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn cries
[2008/07/12 10:07] You: eh?
[2008/07/12 10:07] You: well 🙂 we can meet more than once and shan’t be done right away
[2008/07/12 10:07] You: now
[2008/07/12 10:08] You: finally
[2008/07/12 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (all right)
—-
[2008/07/12 10:08] You: 🙂 no chat about commissions would be complete in my mind without noting
[2008/07/12 10:08] You: that we had two very SUCCESSFUL ones
[2008/07/12 10:08] You: MT’s commerce work and Beathan’s PDP development work
[2008/07/12 10:09] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear
[2008/07/12 10:09] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:09] MT Lundquist: thanks to all who took part
[2008/07/12 10:09] You: and I expect CDS will be significantly improved by the bills that we’ve adopted based on their good work
[2008/07/12 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds as well
[2008/07/12 10:09] You: and thre’s more to do there, too, so we should keep an eye on their implementation, smile
[2008/07/12 10:10] You: I do have on final comment about commissions
[2008/07/12 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: as well as the guided tour implementation
[2008/07/12 10:10] MT Lundquist: there is a cds chamber of commerce group now
[2008/07/12 10:10] MT Lundquist: i suggest we invite all cds traders to it
[2008/07/12 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:10] ThePrincess Parisi: who is leading it? where do we go?
[2008/07/12 10:10] MT Lundquist: thats for the chamber to decide at its first meeting i guess
[2008/07/12 10:10] Jamie Palisades holds up to listen
[2008/07/12 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: when do they meet?
[2008/07/12 10:11] You: MT who is organizing that?
[2008/07/12 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that chamber already chartered?
[2008/07/12 10:11] MT Lundquist: well i can initially
[2008/07/12 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/07/12 10:11] You: Glad to hear it, but needs some kind of publuc notice etc.
[2008/07/12 10:11] MT Lundquist: then i guess it will have its own life
[2008/07/12 10:11] You: Gwyn we have approved it in the bill, but it need to get kicked off
[2008/07/12 10:12] You: hm
[2008/07/12 10:12] You: MT, let me confer with you this week informally to take a few small steps to make sure it has its proper first meeting, a notice, etc etc
[2008/07/12 10:12] You: (sorry typos galore)
[2008/07/12 10:13] ThePrincess Parisi: ty
[2008/07/12 10:13] MT Lundquist: ok jamie
[2008/07/12 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/12 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well yes, that sounds very reasonable
[2008/07/12 10:14] You: let’s get it up and running before our term’s over, grin – just in case anyone raises the issue, I assume the CofC will elect its own officers, but can we agree here to ask M T as the bill’s author to act as its convenor?
[2008/07/12 10:14] MT Lundquist: happy to do that initially
[2008/07/12 10:14] Danton Sideways: Was it the obligation to have to some level of visitor count that was finally decided upon?
[2008/07/12 10:15] MT Lundquist: no
[2008/07/12 10:15] You: excellent 🙂 any other members with thoughts about commissions? I have one more, but have been talking too much 😀
[2008/07/12 10:15] MT Lundquist: or rather yes decided
[2008/07/12 10:15] MT Lundquist: no to count
[2008/07/12 10:15] Jamie Palisades nods
[2008/07/12 10:15] MT Lundquist: your place is safe danton
[2008/07/12 10:15] MT Lundquist: but it always was
[2008/07/12 10:15] Danton Sideways: 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:17] You: so 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its about helping ppl not stealing
[2008/07/12 10:18] You: No more comments on commissions then?
[2008/07/12 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: nope
[2008/07/12 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn can only add her congratulations on the good work done by some of the comissions, and blame herself for the bad work done on others 🙁
—-
[2008/07/12 10:18] You: then one last word from me 🙂 and thx for your patience
[2008/07/12 10:19] You: *if* I can deliver on time on the one I have now (corporate) … it is my plan to ask the NEW RA to create a commission on CDS environmental concerns. We have a wealth of talent here, rally an unusual opportunity, and even there are some strong possible connections between geology and ecology and our sim development choices.
[2008/07/12 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[2008/07/12 10:19] You: Just a notice of intent, no action needed at this time.
[2008/07/12 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you know, the CSDF will be happy to second that proposal any time 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:20] You: so much for agenda item 2 then:)
—-
[2008/07/12 10:20] You: we added a 2.5:
[2008/07/12 10:21] You: MT’s notice of ideas about an ‘investments’ bill?
[crash interruption]
[2008/07/12 10:29] MT Lundquist: as Jamies not back
[2008/07/12 10:29] MT Lundquist: what is the next agenda item
[2008/07/12 10:29] MT Lundquist: ah Jamie
[2008/07/12 10:29] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:30] MT Lundquist: wb
[2008/07/12 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:30] You: Sorry, bad crashies
[2008/07/12 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye it happens :/
[2008/07/12 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the grid went through an upgrade and a downgrade in such a little time, no wonder it’s unstable 😀
[2008/07/12 10:31] You: did I miss anything I need to know, folks? 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we were just discussing MT’s proposed bill
[2008/07/12 10:31] MT Lundquist: i agreed, Jamie, to write a bill for next week proposing to have CDS invest its reserves in a safe account to geneerate interest
[2008/07/12 10:31] You: Ah good
[2008/07/12 10:31] You: not much different than what any trustee would be required to do
[2008/07/12 10:32] MT Lundquist: exactly
[2008/07/12 10:32] You: so that cover’s item “2 1/2”
—-
[2008/07/12 10:33] You: hm – we were as item #3 going to talk briefly about sim 4 update, but also, Prin, did you have more on the Alexi/reimbursements business? I think we amended that into the agenda now, before #3.
[2008/07/12 10:34] MT Lundquist: you may need to come back to that, think shes on a phone call rl
[2008/07/12 10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:34] You: Ok
[2008/07/12 10:34] You: Let’s do 3 then, and come back
—-
[2008/07/12 10:34] You: 🙂 3 may be brief
[2008/07/12 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/12 10:35] You: We noted in our last two meetings that the Chancellor is apparently empowered to authorize the sim purchase himself .. and we have done all the legislating needed to support it.
[2008/07/12 10:35] You: Final land prices for the sim also must be set – but ditto – he can if we do not.
[2008/07/12 10:36] You: SO where we left this was with the Guild plannig to sit down with Alexi and make it happen.
[2008/07/12 10:36] You: We did try to agree on prices ourselves, but …
[2008/07/12 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/07/12 10:36] ThePrincess Parisi: humph..
[2008/07/12 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wasn’t there an agreement?
[2008/07/12 10:36] You: there was significant opposition, as I recall, from FlyingRoc and Sonja to the propossed prices offered by the Guild report.
[2008/07/12 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[2008/07/12 10:37] You: So we did not act.
[2008/07/12 10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And what did the Chancellor decide?
[2008/07/12 10:38] Sonja Strom: I would like to make it clear I was not in opposition, but simply not ready to vote yes due to my colleagues’ concerns not being answered.
[2008/07/12 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: i see
[2008/07/12 10:38] You: Fair enough 🙂 where we are now is this: we must either
[2008/07/12 10:38] You: (a) wait for the Chancellor to act or
[2008/07/12 10:38] You: (b) set prices ourselves
[2008/07/12 10:38] You: any views?
[2008/07/12 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: when did they are will he buy the sim
[2008/07/12 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/07/12 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think waiting for the chancelor to act is good.. lets impeach him instead
[2008/07/12 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I definitely was fine with the Guild prices…
[2008/07/12 10:39] MT Lundquist: does anyone have the link?
[2008/07/12 10:39] ThePrincess Parisi: another ever long list of reasons to cut him
[2008/07/12 10:39] You: let’s do impeachment as an agenda item after the sim 4 chat 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:40] You: link to what MT?
[2008/07/12 10:40] MT Lundquist: the prices
[2008/07/12 10:40] MT Lundquist: or a notecard
[2008/07/12 10:40] You: ah hang on – looking at old minutes
[2008/07/12 10:42] You: OK here is the RA transcript …
[2008/07/12 10:42] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1908
[2008/07/12 10:42] You: and …
[2008/07/12 10:42] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/07/12 10:43] You: here 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:43] You: viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1857&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p11397
[2008/07/12 10:43] You: That was Sudane’s pricing schedule which the Guild recommended, and we voted on but did not pass, at our meeting on the 7th June.
[2008/07/12 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It did not pass?
[2008/07/12 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/07/12 10:44] You: You can see from the transcript (first URI)
[2008/07/12 10:44] You: it was introduced at 11:29
[2008/07/12 10:44] You: and voted down . hm .
[2008/07/12 10:45] You: 2-2-0 at 11:57
[2008/07/12 10:45] You: there were some people eligible to cast a 7 day ballot but they did not.
[2008/07/12 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn worries if she’s guilty
[2008/07/12 10:45] You: hm. Not in that sense
[2008/07/12 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: you are
[2008/07/12 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: just assume you are always
[2008/07/12 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/12 10:46] You: On that motion, Gwyneth, you and I voted yes, Sonja and FR voted no, and BV, MT and TPP were absent.
[2008/07/12 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you’re right, I was just looking at it now
[2008/07/12 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[2008/07/12 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: i was never absent
[2008/07/12 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a constitutional issue here 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is the RA allowed to approve prices (even assuming we did)
[2008/07/12 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or only the Chancellor can set them?
[2008/07/12 10:47] You: oh? How so Gwyn? (Noting that we have not acted)
[2008/07/12 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, so it’s hypothetical anyway
[2008/07/12 10:48] You: Gwyn it’s my take that we can constraint executive acts with legislation if we choose – unless the constitution makes some explicit pieces of chancellor’s powers “hands off” to RA
[2008/07/12 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, the old “it’s allowed if it’s not explicitly forbidden” rule.
[2008/07/12 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we have a common law system in the CDS; so, yes, you’re right.
[2008/07/12 10:49] Jamie Palisades smiles
[2008/07/12 10:49] You: is there anything else to do about sim 4 right now, from the RA’s perspecive?
[2008/07/12 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi: only i told you so
[2008/07/12 10:50] You: we have a few minutes left – I want us to get to Prin’s other agenda item
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whip the Chancellor until he orders it to be bought?
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve heard that it would only be bought on August 2,
[2008/07/12 10:50] ThePrincess Parisi: i think just impeach him works fine
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the “launch party” would be on the last two weeks of AUgust
[2008/07/12 10:50] You: Whatever is August 2? The Ides of Caledon or something?
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Jamie
[2008/07/12 10:50] DivineLolita Demonia: heya 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:50] MT Lundquist: didnt know you were into BDSM Gwyn
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well I’m quoting dates on top of my head
[2008/07/12 10:50] Sonja Strom: hi Divine 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Divine!!!)
[2008/07/12 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT, lol
[2008/07/12 10:52] You: so
[2008/07/12 10:52] You: Prin: you asked us to return to the issue of Alexi and reimbursements
[2008/07/12 10:52] You: let;’s get to that item, hm?
[2008/07/12 10:52] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/12 10:52] You: What I recall is that, at last meeting, he was going to get the tour vehicle info from you and cause it to be purchased. Do I have that right?
[2008/07/12 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: that was my understanding of what he said
[2008/07/12 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: now ask me do i haev it and is it running
[2008/07/12 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now…. the only thing *I* know,
[2008/07/12 10:53] ThePrincess Parisi: or does anyone have it
[2008/07/12 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that Alex does not want a non-transfer item to be given to any citizen
[2008/07/12 10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[2008/07/12 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This means that either we find a copyable or transferable item to act as tourist guide,
[2008/07/12 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or Alex will not allow that.
[2008/07/12 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: he doesnt have that authority
[2008/07/12 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, he sustains his right to boycott that
[2008/07/12 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: the RA approved it
[2008/07/12 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in two ways
[2008/07/12 10:54] ThePrincess Parisi: good then i sustain my right to impeach him
[2008/07/12 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One, the Chancellor can veto *anything* that comes from the RA
[2008/07/12 10:54] Jamie Palisades listens
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: well not totally gwyen
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two, he has been given strict orders
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that ALL content bought by the CDS
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: he cannot veto a vote that was unanimous
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: you are wrong
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: zn and it was
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is to be delivered to the Content Archivist, one copy
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen you are wrong
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin, he can 🙂
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *can* override the veto though!
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: no he cant he can only veto the
[2008/07/12 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi: not if the vote was unanimous
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: He can veto any bill that affects his
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but
[2008/07/12 10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can then move to override the veto.
[2008/07/12 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it’s a two step process. The number of original votes is irrelevant.
[2008/07/12 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: the vote for the guided tour was unanimous by the last session of RA
[2008/07/12 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes.
[2008/07/12 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was.
[2008/07/12 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now there is a process to get that done
[2008/07/12 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think you are right though i dont think he can veto unanimous votes
[2008/07/12 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m personally unclear about the process, I *thought* the point of having a Chancellor is that *he* would figure out the details of getting a device and installing it, or whatever it takes
[2008/07/12 10:57] ThePrincess Parisi: but not change the vote of the RA
[2008/07/12 10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was my understanding, but the Executive does not quite agree….
[2008/07/12 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well Prin…
[2008/07/12 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we passed a bill
[2008/07/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: he cannot veto a unanimous vote, only one that is not unanimous
[2008/07/12 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the number of votes is irrelevant really
[2008/07/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: we passed two
[2008/07/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: you are wrong
[2008/07/12 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That rule is not there!
[2008/07/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: i call for the constitution to be read not the authority of you my dear
[2008/07/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: you are NOT the authority of CDS
[2008/07/12 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: so dont spout off like you are
[2008/07/12 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: i want to see the constitution
[2008/07/12 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Chancellor shall have the power to veto any act of the Representative Assembly, except any bill to remove the Chancellor from office. The Representative Assembly may override a veto with a vote by at least a two-thirds majority.”
[2008/07/12 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So he vetos, we override…. it’s simple
[2008/07/12 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: imma look myself
[2008/07/12 10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure 😀
[2008/07/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: well do we have two thirds here?
[2008/07/12 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts
[2008/07/12 11:00] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: this is absurd.. why would he stop this my god it costs 4k
[2008/07/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: its a few dollars
[2008/07/12 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because he has orders
[2008/07/12 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that all content
[2008/07/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: orders from who?
[2008/07/12 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: has to be copied and given to the Content Archivist
[2008/07/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: if it were something expensive i can see why
[2008/07/12 11:00] ThePrincess Parisi: so buy two ffs
[2008/07/12 11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I guess he could have TWO
[2008/07/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: its not even 4k its k
[2008/07/12 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes
[2008/07/12 11:01] Danton Sideways: Gotta go everyone, bye
[2008/07/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: it is three K
[2008/07/12 11:01] MT Lundquist: bye danton
[2008/07/12 11:01] You: so, kids, where do we want to go with this? Let’s talk action items. It’s 11 am SLT
[2008/07/12 11:01] Sonja Strom: bye Danton
[2008/07/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: not even four.. but they authorized four to have extras… its three K lindens
[2008/07/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: do you know how much money that is and how much this has HURT CDS
[2008/07/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: why?
[2008/07/12 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[2008/07/12 11:01] ThePrincess Parisi: for him to make a point when he didnt do anything else this term
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: for 3k lindens
[2008/07/12 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin, what you suggest is *more than reasonable*
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: how many usd is that
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: ffs
[2008/07/12 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with approving two copies
[2008/07/12 11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or three, or whatever it takes
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: give me a break
[2008/07/12 11:02] MT Lundquist: $10 us
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: impeach his sorry ……….
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: for ten dollars us w ehave cost us so much enhancement of our community
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: people were excited
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: they wanted to do the tour
[2008/07/12 11:02] ThePrincess Parisi: symo made us a vehicle
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: we were bonded
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: for ten dollars!
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: we spend that on coffee!
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: ok coffe and a crousiant
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: croisannt
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: w/e
[2008/07/12 11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I stand by my words of last week, I dont think that this “blocking” has been reasonable at all
[2008/07/12 11:03] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie is stalling
[2008/07/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: i move we vote to IMPEACH NOW
[2008/07/12 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand and respect Alex’s argumentation
[2008/07/12 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but
[2008/07/12 11:04] You: am I ? 🙂 What would you like to do?
[2008/07/12 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *personally* would expect a Chancellor to come up with solutions,
[2008/07/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: IMPEACH FFS
[2008/07/12 11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not “roadblocks”
[2008/07/12 11:04] You: Ah a motion 🙂 THAT I know how to handle, dear
[2008/07/12 11:04] ThePrincess Parisi: for a point
[2008/07/12 11:05] You: ahem we have a motion. So I will ask for a second, then as it’s 11 am for a 15 minute time extention
[2008/07/12 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, can we add a “request to the Chancellor” before that?
[2008/07/12 11:05] You: does prin’s motion have a second?
[2008/07/12 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not even a bill
[2008/07/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOOO
[2008/07/12 11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, lol
[2008/07/12 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: its been now a mont since we asked him ffs
[2008/07/12 11:05] You: um and does prin’s skirt have a color chart? (sorry)
[2008/07/12 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, I was *trying* to get a compromise
[2008/07/12 11:06] ThePrincess Parisi: we compromised too much already
[2008/07/12 11:06] You: so kids 🙂 we are over time for today. We can continue IF there is a SECOND to the motion AND we agree to go on for 15 more minutes.
[2008/07/12 11:06] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/07/12 11:07] You: Ah there’s half of what I need 🙂 thanks
[2008/07/12 11:07] You: now
[2008/07/12 11:07] Sonja Strom: agree
[2008/07/12 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you very much
[2008/07/12 11:07] You: any objections until continuing until 1120 for now? SLT
[2008/07/12 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: please not me
[2008/07/12 11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine
[2008/07/12 11:07] MT Lundquist: i can do 10 mins
[2008/07/12 11:07] MT Lundquist: no more
[2008/07/12 11:07] ThePrincess Parisi: no longer than that but thats ok
[2008/07/12 11:08] You: Gwyn, do we have a web-accessible constitution at the moment?
[2008/07/12 11:08] You: I’m not seeing one
[2008/07/12 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: vaguely…
[2008/07/12 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie
[2008/07/12 11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://neufreistadt.info/id25.html
[2008/07/12 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: 1. vote to impeach
[2008/07/12 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: and 2.
[2008/07/12 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi: count
[2008/07/12 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi: well….
[2008/07/12 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not impeach –” removal from office
[2008/07/12 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi: ok fine remove him from office .. as if he ever had one
[2008/07/12 11:09] Jamie Palisades looks at the constitution for a second
[2008/07/12 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as per “7. The Chancellor may be removed from office prior to the expiration of the term of office by at least a two thirds vote of the Representative Assembly.”
[2008/07/12 11:09] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you gwyen
[2008/07/12 11:10] You: yup
[2008/07/12 11:11] You: 2/3rds of 7 requires 5 votes
[2008/07/12 11:11] MT Lundquist: k
[2008/07/12 11:11] ThePrincess Parisi: i count five
[2008/07/12 11:12] You: I can tell you that personally I’m willing to consider this, after debate, IF we have the precise cause spelled out, and …
[2008/07/12 11:12] ThePrincess Parisi: dont you read and watch what goes on
[2008/07/12 11:12] ThePrincess Parisi: you need a cause
[2008/07/12 11:12] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/12 11:13] You: .. if we’ve given him adequate notice that this is happening. I think an impeachment without a heads-up would be a bad idea – maybe even something the SC could undo.
[2008/07/12 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that there is no “precise cause” but an accumulated 6-months of inability to comply with the RA’s requests, Jamie
[2008/07/12 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh no, it’s just removal from office, not impeachment
[2008/07/12 11:13] You: Well, Gwyn, that might be your cause right there.
[2008/07/12 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: the guided tour alone! do you know what that cost us as sims.
[2008/07/12 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to vote for impeachment, this would need to be done at the SC level, but we can certainly do that as well
[2008/07/12 11:13] You: Hm, yes, OK, I see the nomenclature, it is a removal.
[2008/07/12 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in that case, the SC would hold an impeachment court
[2008/07/12 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: removal
[2008/07/12 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: we have waited too long!
[2008/07/12 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: An impeachment, in my view, would mean that Alex was maliciously trying to counter our requests and damaging/hurting the citizens directly
[2008/07/12 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just see a certain hmmmm let’s say “slowness” in compliance 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i can make a case for that too
[2008/07/12 11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: More than enough to warrant a removal from office,
[2008/07/12 11:14] You: How would the rest of you feel about this alternative:
[2008/07/12 11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I don’t see it as being “malicious”
[2008/07/12 11:15] You: We adopt a resolution this week indicating that if by next Saturday we do not have (list of thigns) (will type that up next), we plan to remove him from office at that meeting?
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: he spent his first month trying to get PAID to be chancelloor
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: we already did that
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie we did that the past two weeks
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: get on the ball
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: im not ok with any more chances
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: how long have we been doing this? MONTHS
[2008/07/12 11:15] You: I agree that we threatened, somewhat, or at least individual RA members did.
[2008/07/12 11:15] Sonja Strom: Is this in discussion now?
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: i have been asking YOU for months
[2008/07/12 11:15] You: Sonja, I think we need to hear from you too here.
[2008/07/12 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: months ago you asked him about the reimbursements you told me
[2008/07/12 11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja, yes, I understand this will be the last discussion. After all, the motion IS on the table and seconded.
[2008/07/12 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: i will be very upset if you delay this any more
[2008/07/12 11:16] You: (those would be hob-nailed, politician-stomping boots, Prin?)
[2008/07/12 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: the fact you ran against him dont worry jamie, no one will think bad of you
[2008/07/12 11:16] Sonja Strom: Oh, I thought the motion was to extend the meeting time.
[2008/07/12 11:16] Jamie Palisades waits to hear Sonja’s take
[2008/07/12 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: i made a mistake
[2008/07/12 11:17] Sonja Strom: I have a couple of questions.
[2008/07/12 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and yes
[2008/07/12 11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was the second motion1
[2008/07/12 11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sure!
[2008/07/12 11:17] You: No, Sonja, we have a motion and second to remove the chancellor from office for repeated delays to respond .
[2008/07/12 11:17] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/07/12 11:17] Sonja Strom: How much longer would it be until the next RA takes office?
[2008/07/12 11:18] You: (Section 7 of Amendment 11 to constitution, at http://neufreistadt.info/id25.html)
[2008/07/12 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja don’t do that .. we need tomake a point that CDS is a serious endeavor
[2008/07/12 11:18] You: Our last meeting is in 2 weeks.
[2008/07/12 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: dont just let this slide
[2008/07/12 11:18] You: First week in August, new RA.
[2008/07/12 11:18] ThePrincess Parisi: if a person can’t do the job then they needn’t volunteer
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: why do you ask how much longer?
[2008/07/12 11:19] Sonja Strom: So, unless the next RA wants Symo to continue as Chancellor, he has 3 weeks remaining for his term?
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: Symo?
[2008/07/12 11:19] You: hm Alexicon is chancellor 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:19] Sonja Strom: Sorry, Alexicon I meant
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/12 11:19] You: Alexicon Kurka? You voted for him 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:19] Sonja Strom: one of the Kurka family 😉
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: yes but we need action
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: true sonja
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: andhe didnt do his job sonja
[2008/07/12 11:19] Sonja Strom: I apologise to everybody for my mistake.
[2008/07/12 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: no worries
[2008/07/12 11:20] Sonja Strom: I was thinking of Alexicon Kurka, but spoke of Symo Kurka.
[2008/07/12 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: ok no problem
[2008/07/12 11:20] You: and in direct answer to your question, Sonja; yes. 3 weeks or so.
[2008/07/12 11:20] You: and by the way I assume we have to replace him too, if we do that.
[2008/07/12 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: we need to remove him from office, mainly to show that one cannot just take things for granted and make the rest of him suffer
[2008/07/12 11:21] Sonja Strom: Another question is, do we have others who want to be Chancellor for these last 2 weeks of this term?
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: we can do that
[2008/07/12 11:21] You: anyone got a chancellor in their pocket?
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: i can find one
[2008/07/12 11:21] Sonja Strom: hihi
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie
[2008/07/12 11:21] Sonja Strom: TP has one
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: gywen
[2008/07/12 11:21] You: I agree we have the legal power Prin, not a problem to just vote one in.
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: justice
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: how also ran
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: who ?
[2008/07/12 11:21] ThePrincess Parisi: justice can do it
[2008/07/12 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: anyone would do a better job in my opinion
[2008/07/12 11:22] Sonja Strom: If we wanted to appoint another Chancellor, should we hold debates again?
[2008/07/12 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: how about PIO
[2008/07/12 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: who is next in line
[2008/07/12 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: would you do it jamie? the RA elects chancellor so its no big deal
[2008/07/12 11:23] Sonja Strom: Would the next Chancellor be able to accomplish much in one or two weeks of being in office?
[2008/07/12 11:23] You: as we’re over the extended time, can I ask, are we going to act today? Sonja, are you prepared to vote?
[2008/07/12 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: we dont need debates for that sonja we can just talk t o them
[2008/07/12 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: its a message sonja
[2008/07/12 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: we can get a chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i am ready
[2008/07/12 11:23] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/12 11:24] You: This really comes down to the issue Prin and Sonja are discussing: do we want to swat Alexi for nonresponsiveness, and have the bother of an interim? Or not?
[2008/07/12 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: anyone would accomplish something
[2008/07/12 11:24] Sonja Strom: No, my questions have not been answered to a level where I am prepared to vote to remove the current Chancellor from office.
[2008/07/12 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry for being away, since we’re running late, I’m trying to get ready to go out lol )
[2008/07/12 11:24] You: np Gwyn
[2008/07/12 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: what other questions do you have
[2008/07/12 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I can only answer on procedural things: voting in on a new Chancellor can be done by the RA at any time
[2008/07/12 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it could even be done today, lol
[2008/07/12 11:25] You: Sonja, thanks for being clear that does help us make progress. Since we know we do not have 5 votes today, I suggest that we plan to continue it as the first item next week.
[2008/07/12 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As if they could accomplish anything in two weeks…
[2008/07/12 11:25] Sonja Strom: If we wanted to appoint another Chancellor, should we hold debates again?
[2008/07/12 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: we dont need debates
[2008/07/12 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My feeling is “No” but that certainly depends on who becomes a new Chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:25] ThePrincess Parisi: anyone can do more in two weeks than he did in six months
[2008/07/12 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, we don’t need debates — candidates present themselves to the RA and get elected, that’s all it takes.
[2008/07/12 11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now… being reasonable,
[2008/07/12 11:26] Sonja Strom: Have we decided how we would select the next Chancellor/
[2008/07/12 11:26] Sonja Strom: ?
[2008/07/12 11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one thing is a “matter of principle”
[2008/07/12 11:26] You: Sonja, the procedural answer to that is that we can choose to, or not. Not sure I think it’s needed – this would be a caretaker appointment — There will be another chancellor election in the first week of August anyway.
[2008/07/12 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: we always vote for him sonja
[2008/07/12 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: the RA votes
[2008/07/12 11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. removing Alex from office because, well, the RA voted so
[2008/07/12 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: for chancellor every term
[2008/07/12 11:26] Sonja Strom: Do we know for certain that Justice wants to do it?
[2008/07/12 11:26] You: and as for “how”? The RA just votes, Sonja. no special rules required.
[2008/07/12 11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other thing is being pragmatic: I’d suggest that we’d go Chancellor-less for 2 weeks 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:26] ThePrincess Parisi: no .. i dont know how wants to do it
[2008/07/12 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and allow the next one to get voted in as usual
[2008/07/12 11:27] Sonja Strom: I mean, that he still wants to do it?
[2008/07/12 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: i will do it and replace my seat.. jamie can do it.. gwyen you can do it and get someone to sit for csdf
[2008/07/12 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: bells can do it
[2008/07/12 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: anyone can be chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:27] You: Was Justice ever interested? I hadn’t ever heard anyone other than MT and I discuss being interested, for this next term.
[2008/07/12 11:27] Sonja Strom: I would prefer for us to let Alexicon’s term expire with nothing done than to not have a Chancellor at all.
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: how pathetic
[2008/07/12 11:28] MT Lundquist: then we can elect a new one
[2008/07/12 11:28] MT Lundquist: immediately
[2008/07/12 11:28] You: Well, let be be clear about a couple of options – and this is just personal oopinion
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: let him stay in office??
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: why?
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: to be nice
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: he has HURT
[2008/07/12 11:28] Sonja Strom: Then, naturally, that is left up to the Chancellor to decide how much he will or will not do in this time he has.
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: CDS
[2008/07/12 11:28] Sonja Strom: We are talking about at most two weeks —
[2008/07/12 11:28] You: 1. if you want to remove him now – sort of as a warning to future chancellors about not being responsive – I think we SHOULD have a caretaker
[2008/07/12 11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[2008/07/12 11:28] MT Lundquist: i do believe people should do their jobs
[2008/07/12 11:28] You: 2. for one thing that land sale might happen!
[2008/07/12 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: so we let him off the hook
[2008/07/12 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there isn’t the figure of a “Caretaker” or Vice-Chancellor…
[2008/07/12 11:29] MT Lundquist: and Alex has been sadly lacking
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: pathetic sonja
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: we can elect jamie
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie i move you will be next chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: will you do it
[2008/07/12 11:29] You: 3. I can think of three people who can do it as a replacement who are in the room and can say yes now
[2008/07/12 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha no, Prin, since Jamie is LRA!
[2008/07/12 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: conflict of interests!
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: why?
[2008/07/12 11:29] Sonja Strom: Isn’t Alexicon a member of NuCARE?
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: oh come on
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: he is
[2008/07/12 11:29] Sonja Strom: Why don’t you talk with him?
[2008/07/12 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But point 3 is ok
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: thats irrelevant i think
[2008/07/12 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: who can ? is that person on jamie
[2008/07/12 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Sonja, we have talked and talked
[2008/07/12 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: is anyone on who will do it
[2008/07/12 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean mmmh
[2008/07/12 11:30] You: Sonja, if we had a satisfactory replacement right now, would that change your mind about the vote?
[2008/07/12 11:30] Sonja Strom: I mean, the NuCARE members of the RA — can’t they talk with him as a member of their faction?
[2008/07/12 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: we have tried
[2008/07/12 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: for the whole term
[2008/07/12 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: he is beligerant
[2008/07/12 11:30] You: Because I can easily imagine us all agreeing on me OR MT OR Gwyn … and I could give you a good reason for each of those 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: its embarrasing to us
[2008/07/12 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And to be honest, it wasn’t just NuCARE that talked to Alex…
[2008/07/12 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: he wont do what is best for CDS
[2008/07/12 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: all of us have tried
[2008/07/12 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie
[2008/07/12 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Prin is right on that
[2008/07/12 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: if one of us will do it, like MT , is that a problem that he will vote
[2008/07/12 11:31] Sonja Strom: So the motion on the table now is to vote on removal of the Chancellor next week?
[2008/07/12 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: no to remove him now
[2008/07/12 11:31] MT Lundquist: i would do it if the RA wished that
[2008/07/12 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: and vote someone in now
[2008/07/12 11:31] You: but really the threshold issue is irrelevant if we do not want to vote to remove today. I actually like Alexi. Great guy. creative. Just inattentive.
[2008/07/12 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: removal now, today
[2008/07/12 11:31] You: Um, no Sonja, the motion Prin made was, remove now.
[2008/07/12 11:32] You: and to answer Prin’s procedural question
[2008/07/12 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: id rather rose or arria.. bells … gwyen ..
[2008/07/12 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: mt
[2008/07/12 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja i would vote for you
[2008/07/12 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: will you be chancellor for two weeks
[2008/07/12 11:32] You: we’re all RA memebrs and all can vote even if one of us was appointed, yes.
[2008/07/12 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, Jamie, for the record, I love Alex too as a person, he’s very talent, enthusiastic, and a good friend. But that’s just a personal thing!
[2008/07/12 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn is not available for Chancellor, sorry
[2008/07/12 11:32] ThePrincess Parisi: i do too… its not personal.. its not political.. it is for the best for CDS
[2008/07/12 11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just to make clear 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:32] Sonja Strom: ok – I don’t think we should remove him immediately. If we want to vote on his removal, we should allow him to be present and say something about it beforehand if he would like.
[2008/07/12 11:32] You: It’s 11:30.
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja we have been doing that
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: he has already two weeks ago
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we did that last week
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: and last week
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
[2008/07/12 11:33] Sonja Strom: Then if we invite him, and he does not come, then that is his choice.
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: we did that gave him unlitmateums and he didnt respond
[2008/07/12 11:33] Sonja Strom: Then we can hold the vote.
[2008/07/12 11:33] MT Lundquist: he came last week sonja
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja we did that!
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This would be the third time, Sonja. In that I have to side with Prin,
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: we have done all this already for months sonja
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alex *did* have plenty of opportunities
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: LOTs
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, just one question
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Did people get paid?
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: NOOOOO
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s forget the tourist thingy no
[2008/07/12 11:33] Sonja Strom: Really? We invited him to come to a vote of his removal?
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No?
[2008/07/12 11:33] ThePrincess Parisi: no one got paid
[2008/07/12 11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2008/07/12 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i got one
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Last week,
[2008/07/12 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: yes we did sonja
[2008/07/12 11:34] You: Ladies and gentlemen 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:34] You: …
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: he submitted 13 points on an email
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to the Treasurer
[2008/07/12 11:34] You: this is all on record
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: for payment.
[2008/07/12 11:34] Sonja Strom: oh, ok, sorry, I didn’t understand that.
[2008/07/12 11:34] Sonja Strom: ok, then I will vote now.
[2008/07/12 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i got one payment but no notice of why the other three were not paid.. that one that was paid fro was from 2007
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There was ONLY one point where he was adamant: he refused to buy a non-transfer item for the tourist guide
[2008/07/12 11:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i was just paid for a december vote
[2008/07/12 11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All the remaining ones were pending payments
[2008/07/12 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: of 2007
[2008/07/12 11:35] MT Lundquist: lets vote
[2008/07/12 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: its half through 2008
[2008/07/12 11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So what I was trying to say is…
[2008/07/12 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear
[2008/07/12 11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why didn’t people get paid,
[2008/07/12 11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the Chancellor ordered the payments? 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: no one knows!
[2008/07/12 11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly…
[2008/07/12 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i got ONE payment from a december thing
[2008/07/12 11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, the mail was NOT lost
[2008/07/12 11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: unlike the notecards
[2008/07/12 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: well come on … it was alexicon ….
[2008/07/12 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Treasurer showed me the mail she’d received
[2008/07/12 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah
[2008/07/12 11:36] You: Let me just check — so we’re clear – you are confident that he’s been warned, based on the Q&A and prior requests? because I think Sonja’s concern is the same as mind: fair process.
[2008/07/12 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I know there was an Exec meeting last SUnday or so (I wasn’t allowed to attend)
[2008/07/12 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: i am confident that he has been warned many many many many times
[2008/07/12 11:36] MT Lundquist: and he was told at RA
[2008/07/12 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: since the begining of the term
[2008/07/12 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: bells worked for him
[2008/07/12 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m confident too, but I wonder what happened to that list of payments
[2008/07/12 11:36] ThePrincess Parisi: she can bring up a whole nother set of issues
[2008/07/12 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Were they just, uh, blowing dust in my eyes?…
[2008/07/12 11:37] You: Um – Gwyn – I am not quite getting the significance of your point about the e-mail and the Executive meeting?
[2008/07/12 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Jamie
[2008/07/12 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The issue here is that I got a strong impression,
[2008/07/12 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: want me to open the next can of worms about him ?
[2008/07/12 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: by seeing a mail requesting payments last week
[2008/07/12 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: and then the one about him trying to get money for him self?
[2008/07/12 11:37] You: (not yet – let’s hear Gwyn’s point)
[2008/07/12 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that there was an attempt to comply with the RA’s demands.
[2008/07/12 11:37] You: ahh
[2008/07/12 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: feeble too little too late
[2008/07/12 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that was a tricky one, Prin
[2008/07/12 11:37] You: but Gwyn you support his removal anyway?
[2008/07/12 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean
[2008/07/12 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, he has enrolled himself as janitor and demanded payment for that.
[2008/07/12 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2008/07/12 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: no i mean the website snafu
[2008/07/12 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I surely dislike the way things are happening!!!
[2008/07/12 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, the website…
[2008/07/12 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: he wanted to get us a very expensive webiste portal and bee paid
[2008/07/12 11:38] Jamie Palisades mutters .. chancellor janitor? … and shrugs a little
[2008/07/12 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: to run it
[2008/07/12 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s more my fault really, Prin
[2008/07/12 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: NO i dont think you were involved .. in the first weeks
[2008/07/12 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: it was him and mizou and arria
[2008/07/12 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, well, we talked a long time about that and agreed that the CDS would not pay him for that,
[2008/07/12 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: i kept it hush………..
[2008/07/12 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just order a shared virtual server for US$10/month
[2008/07/12 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and he’d have access to it
[2008/07/12 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: this was way before that
[2008/07/12 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: he wanted a 100 a month one
[2008/07/12 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, he wanted an insane amount of money to run the website 🙁
[2008/07/12 11:39] MT Lundquist: yes i spoke to him about it to
[2008/07/12 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
[2008/07/12 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: remember and he would also be paid to run it
[2008/07/12 11:39] You: Well, hmm. I do not think this additional chat is changing any minds, eh?
[2008/07/12 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/07/12 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s totally correct, Prin
[2008/07/12 11:39] MT Lundquist: can we vote?
[2008/07/12 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: shall i tell you he wanted to MAKE money of his own rl , for being chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: please lets vote
[2008/07/12 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: this is painful
[2008/07/12 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I wouldn’t go on accusing him with that, not outside an impeachment court, Prin.
[2008/07/12 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: because that would be trying to determine malicious intent
[2008/07/12 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as said, we talked him out of that particular idea
[2008/07/12 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: long ago.
[2008/07/12 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: ok well i am just saying .. that this is the tip of a huge iceberg what you see
[2008/07/12 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: He STILL enrolled himself as janitor and sent an email to request payment for THAT.
[2008/07/12 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: please dont let it slide.. and its my faction, yes.. can you imagine how i feel
[2008/07/12 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: i wanted him to BE chancellor .. i nominated him
[2008/07/12 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: but CDS is what i LOVE
[2008/07/12 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I wasn’t in the RA, but I certainly was quite encouraging of having him as Chancellor,
[2008/07/12 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: and MT
[2008/07/12 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the first 2 or 3 weeks even went well in the planning stage 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:41] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :))
[2008/07/12 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and bells
[2008/07/12 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn sees a lot of love floating around 😀
[2008/07/12 11:42] You: heh I have not forgotten who suported him, Prin. Pragmatically, I would like to reserve the right to run for chancellor next term. To me it seems a bit odd to jump in now — I still have a few things to complete as LRA. Can I ask if MT would (a) be willing to serve for three weeks, and (b) can be immediately replaced on RA for 3 weeks by SOMEONE from NuCARE? Because if we know we have a replacement, that’s a factor. (Actually I’d love to elect Gwyn for 3 weeks in view of her long service to CDS, but if she says no, well, that’s it.)
[2008/07/12 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: jamie please
[2008/07/12 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: yes ..
[2008/07/12 11:42] Mikelo Serevi: What REAL benefit, aside of making an example of Alex, would come of this removal?
[2008/07/12 11:42] You: Prin perhaps I should get that from a NuCARE member instead? (smile)
[2008/07/12 11:42] MT Lundquist: yes i would do that
[2008/07/12 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i can get one
[2008/07/12 11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mikelo, some things — like payments — might be settled once and for all.
[2008/07/12 11:43] MT Lundquist: at the request of the RA
[2008/07/12 11:43] ThePrincess Parisi: we have adequate volunteers to fill our seat
[2008/07/12 11:43] ThePrincess Parisi: please dont make it political though
[2008/07/12 11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: anyone who wants it i will suport.. csdf any faction if its a good citizen who will try
[2008/07/12 11:44] You: Prin, I am adequately confused about NuCARE right now that “we” is a tough term 🙂 but NuCARE has 3 RA candidates for the next term, so it seems reaonsable to assume one can serve short time, right, MT?
[2008/07/12 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh well, I cannot ask anyone *right now* to act as a replacement 😀
[2008/07/12 11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean from the CSDF
[2008/07/12 11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i am nucare today
[2008/07/12 11:44] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/12 11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: i am always CDS first though
[2008/07/12 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: believe it.. or not
[2008/07/12 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: MT would be a fine chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:45] You: I think we’re ready to vote then. This is serious stuff.
[2008/07/12 11:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes it is, it’ll set a precedent.
[2008/07/12 11:45] You: I don;t like it when we have to remove someone, let’s take it with the tone it deserves.
[2008/07/12 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i think it matters this is really not a game.. it is serous
[2008/07/12 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: serious
[2008/07/12 11:46] ThePrincess Parisi: we are the only suriviving democracy in sl
[2008/07/12 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Namely, that a Chancellor cannot avoid to comply with the RA’s reasonable requests without having very good excuses
[2008/07/12 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’m afraid that I haven’t seen any excuses 🙁
[2008/07/12 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not good, nor bad.
—-
[2008/07/12 11:46] You: It has been moved and seconded that we remove Alexicon Kurka as Chancellor, for the reasons stated in the debate.
[2008/07/12 11:46] You: Members please state your vote.
[2008/07/12 11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote aye on removal.
[2008/07/12 11:47] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/12 11:47] ThePrincess Parisi on behalf of nucare.. and sadly vote aye
[2008/07/12 11:47] Jamie Palisades patiently waits for Sonja.
[2008/07/12 11:47] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/07/12 11:48] ThePrincess Parisi cries
[2008/07/12 11:48] You: Alright then. I vote aye. I will inform Alexi. I move that we elect MT as Chancellor.
[2008/07/12 11:48] You: (and ask NuCare to fill his term for the next three weeks.)
[2008/07/12 11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Are there more candidates here and now in this room?
[2008/07/12 11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: mkelo? bells?
[2008/07/12 11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: sonja do you wanna do it
[2008/07/12 11:49] Sonja Strom: no, thank you
[2008/07/12 11:49] Mikelo Serevi: At the last minute like this?
[2008/07/12 11:49] You: Let’s see, but honestly, for a 3 week caretaker I do not believe we are obligated to seek them
[2008/07/12 11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I tend to agree, Jamie
[2008/07/12 11:49] You: And It iwll only take 3 votes, but I have to say with apologies that I would not vote for someone who;s dead new to the government at this stage.
[2008/07/12 11:49] Sonja Strom: Well, it does not hurt to ask if anyone else here would like to do it.
[2008/07/12 11:50] ThePrincess Parisi: do you sonja
[2008/07/12 11:50] Sonja Strom: Maybe I misunderstood —
[2008/07/12 11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn requests one minute
[2008/07/12 11:51] Sonja Strom: I thought Jamie was saying it was not required of us to take into consideration others besides MT.
[2008/07/12 11:51] Mikelo Serevi: I may know someone. hang on.
[2008/07/12 11:51] You: We are heading into hour 3 here folks. I woud like us to have a replacement. That is correct Sonja – we are not *required* to do so.
[2008/07/12 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: jon lives with gyneth now i know
[2008/07/12 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: jon is here
[2008/07/12 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: PIP
[2008/07/12 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: oh they come out of the woodwork
[2008/07/12 11:51] Sonja Strom: Hi Pip
[2008/07/12 11:51] MT Lundquist: hi pip
[2008/07/12 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/12 11:51] You: but I am not too happy about a bunch of last minute candidate being dragged in. That’s unseemly.
[2008/07/12 11:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin: lol
[2008/07/12 11:52] Mikelo Serevi: it really is, IMHO
[2008/07/12 11:52] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i move my MT is chancellor for the last few weeks
[2008/07/12 11:52] Sonja Strom: Second
[2008/07/12 11:52] You: Um I already did move that Prin – you want to second it? OK 🙂 it got two seconds
[2008/07/12 11:52] Pip Torok: hallo can someone bring me up to speed?
[2008/07/12 11:52] MT Lundquist: i will obviously drop out of this vote
[2008/07/12 11:52] ThePrincess Parisi: we just removed alexicon from office
[2008/07/12 11:52] Sonja Strom: Pip, Alexicon Kurka has been removed as Chancellor.
[2008/07/12 11:53] Mikelo Serevi: They are looking for a 3-week replacement.
[2008/07/12 11:53] You: (In midmeeting, that’s a tough request Pip. We have removed Alexi. We are discussing a replacaement. )
[2008/07/12 11:53] Sonja Strom: right
[2008/07/12 11:53] You: RA members, please: does anyone wish to nominate another candidate? We have one.
[2008/07/12 11:53] You: If not let’s elect him and be done. If you have one, speak now please.
[2008/07/12 11:53] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/07/12 11:53] Sonja Strom: Actually we are in mid-vote, right?
[2008/07/12 11:54] Pip Torok: who are the candidates?
[2008/07/12 11:54] ThePrincess Parisi: MT
[2008/07/12 11:54] Pip Torok: then I’d like to put myself forward as candidate
[2008/07/12 11:54] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/07/12 11:54] You: We have a motion and second. I have asked for other candidates. none have been offered. I propose to CLOSE the nominations now — unkess someone speaks up!
[2008/07/12 11:54] You: ah sorry Pip, OK, just saw that.
[2008/07/12 11:55] You: You understand this is for 3 weeks, yes?
[2008/07/12 11:55] Sonja Strom: Perhaps we could re-phrase the question?
[2008/07/12 11:55] Pip Torok: i do realise that jamie
[2008/07/12 11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, thanks, Pip
[2008/07/12 11:55] You: Let me address RA members only for a moment.
[2008/07/12 11:55] Pip Torok: ok …
[2008/07/12 11:55] You: I have one nominatied candiate.
[2008/07/12 11:55] You: MT
[2008/07/12 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s really “on the spur of the moment”, but the job is easy actually: making sure that in the next two weeks people get paid what teh CDS owns them for the past 6 months 🙂
[2008/07/12 11:56] You: Youc an add more if you want, including nominating Pip.
[2008/07/12 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Jamie, yes, of course
[2008/07/12 11:56] ThePrincess Parisi: and buy a sim
[2008/07/12 11:56] You: which no member has yet done.
[2008/07/12 11:56] Sonja Strom: I nominate Pip.
[2008/07/12 11:56] You: ah there 🙂 thanks
[2008/07/12 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since Pip is willing, I also nominate him as a candidate — gladly so
[2008/07/12 11:56] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/07/12 11:56] You: Last call. Any others?
[2008/07/12 11:56] Pip Torok: then i’d like to add one … myself
[2008/07/12 11:56] Sonja Strom: Pip, RA members only in this vote please.
[2008/07/12 11:57] Pip Torok: (sorry that was redundant)
[2008/07/12 11:57] You: Pip. You are not an RA member so you cannot make motions or nominations here, but you are welcome to offer yourself as a candidate, and I will ask you to speak in favor of yourself in a few minutes.
[2008/07/12 11:57] You: RA members: May I close nominations?
[2008/07/12 11:57] ThePrincess Parisi: yes isr
[2008/07/12 11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, we have two candidates only, right?
[2008/07/12 11:57] Sonja Strom: yes
[2008/07/12 11:58] You: We are ONE HOUR over time.
[2008/07/12 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn will sadly only be able to vote on the replacement Chancellor and then has to go out in a hurry
[2008/07/12 11:58] ThePrincess Parisi: wait
[2008/07/12 11:58] You: do we require debate? Would a short statement from each candidate suffice?
[2008/07/12 11:58] MT Lundquist: as PIp has shown a willingness to be chancellor
[2008/07/12 11:59] MT Lundquist: I’m prepared to withdraw
[2008/07/12 11:59] MT Lundquist: from the nomination
[2008/07/12 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/12 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: so pip is the only candidate
[2008/07/12 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[2008/07/12 12:00] Sonja Strom: Thanks, MT – that might be better for the operation of the government, as you are a member of the Representative Assembly.
[2008/07/12 12:00] You: Indeed. May I ask? Pip I just do not have the data, so (a) are you a member of a CDS faction? and (b) have you had any experience administering organizations?
[2008/07/12 12:00] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/12 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (b) most certainly 😀
[2008/07/12 12:00] You: but I was asking Pip, Gwyn, sorry
[2008/07/12 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: and will you treat me with the respect Your Highness deserves
[2008/07/12 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry
[2008/07/12 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: and no more
[2008/07/12 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn *covers her mouth*
[2008/07/12 12:00] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/07/12 12:01] MT Lundquist: yes pip i have to
[2008/07/12 12:01] Pip Torok: yes i am a member of a cds faction the DPU and yes i do have extensive _liaison_ experience in my job
[2008/07/12 12:01] ThePrincess Parisi: im just kidding 🙂 sorry
[2008/07/12 12:01] Pip Torok: and later at a London Medical College
[2008/07/12 12:02] ThePrincess Parisi: i recommend pip highly fellow ra members
[2008/07/12 12:02] You: I just haven’t met Pip for very long, so apologize that this turn of events leaving me with no data as you all strive to pull candidates out of a hat 🙂 Has someone on the RA worked with Pip, perhaps, and can say a few words?
[2008/07/12 12:02] ThePrincess Parisi: if he puts his mind to it , i know he can do a good job.. he has done some nice things for CDS and i know he feels strongly about our community
[2008/07/12 12:02] Pip Torok: did you get those words?
[2008/07/12 12:02] Sonja Strom: Pip has taken part in coordinating the DPU platform.
[2008/07/12 12:03] ThePrincess Parisi: and though he feigns mislike of me personally .. i do believe he will do well for CDS
[2008/07/12 12:03] Sonja Strom: He has been helpful in the faction, and good to work with.
[2008/07/12 12:03] Pip Torok: hallo i put a speech out but i was in mouse-mode
[2008/07/12 12:03] You: Pip, I note you did not have the time or inclination to run for RA’ do you at least have some short-term time available for this next month? We’re likely to have some needs that require focus.
[2008/07/12 12:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can only vouch for Pip’s talent in organising some good, interesting events in the CDS, which are of highly entertaining cultural value
[2008/07/12 12:04] ThePrincess Parisi: he can read great poems aloud
[2008/07/12 12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: he can indeed, Prin!!!
[2008/07/12 12:04] Sonja Strom: He is a good dancer.
[2008/07/12 12:04] Pip Torok: well i have a problem with bad eyes .. but can offer consistency
[2008/07/12 12:04] MT Lundquist: i to have heard that
[2008/07/12 12:04] You: Oh I have attended those readings 🙂 No doubt about his oratory skills
[2008/07/12 12:04] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/12 12:04] ThePrincess Parisi: and his enlish accent is not quite but almost as great as MTs
[2008/07/12 12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: :))))
[2008/07/12 12:04] You: How are you for, ahem, time, Pip? 🙂
[2008/07/12 12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol prin!
[2008/07/12 12:04] ThePrincess Parisi: no i think he will do a great job.. i know he is devoted to CDS
[2008/07/12 12:04] ThePrincess Parisi: .
[2008/07/12 12:05] MT Lundquist: that i believe too
[2008/07/12 12:05] Pip Torok: well i can be available until about 3 or 4pm slt on most days
[2008/07/12 12:05] Pip Torok: (you need to add 8 hrs onto slt to get my time)
[2008/07/12 12:05] ThePrincess Parisi: he’s inworld a lot.. i think he will get more done in the past three weeks.. than in the last six months.. pip.. will you have an election event?
[2008/07/12 12:06] Pip Torok: an election event?
[2008/07/12 12:06] ThePrincess Parisi: and then the inaugural?
[2008/07/12 12:06] You: Coming in on the heels of a removal for nonresponsiveness, Pip, I hope you can understand that my concern is whether you can give the short term tasks a bit of focus in the next three weeks
[2008/07/12 12:06] ThePrincess Parisi: hells was more like it for me
[2008/07/12 12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Honestly, for the next 2-3 weeks, there is just one major issue to get solved: the payments. Minor issues are: helping the coordination of the debate; organising the election ball next week. And, well, then it’s time to pick a new Chancellor anyway…
[2008/07/12 12:06] ThePrincess Parisi: have you read the chancellor job description pip?
[2008/07/12 12:06] You: Luckily you *would* have the benefit of a lot of people willing to help — CDS is good that way
[2008/07/12 12:06] MT Lundquist: yes i wasnt phased by hells
[2008/07/12 12:07] Pip Torok: well jamie i will do what i can tho there will be a limit that my eyes can impose
[2008/07/12 12:07] You: 🙂
[2008/07/12 12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s more than reasonable for me, Pip :)))
[2008/07/12 12:07] MT Lundquist: i’m happy
[2008/07/12 12:07] You: Any other questions? We seem to have one nominee. Are you ready to vote?
[2008/07/12 12:07] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/12 12:07] ThePrincess Parisi: ready
[2008/07/12 12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn is ready.
[2008/07/12 12:08] Sonja Strom: I move that we elect Pip Torok as Chancellor for the remainder of this term.
[2008/07/12 12:08] You: Members please state your vote on electing Pip Torok. I vote aye.
[2008/07/12 12:08] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/12 12:08] ThePrincess Parisi: hear hear.. aye
[2008/07/12 12:08] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/07/12 12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[2008/07/12 12:08] You: It’s unanininmous then. Congratulations.
[2008/07/12 12:08] You: Pip, I’d suggest you talk to Sudane and Moon straightaway 🙂
[2008/07/12 12:09] Pip Torok: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen
[2008/07/12 12:09] MT Lundquist: congrats
[2008/07/12 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: now get to work
[2008/07/12 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to thnk you very much for doing this, Pip
[2008/07/12 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: i know you will do a great job!
[2008/07/12 12:09] Sonja Strom: congratulations, and thanks, to you Pip
[2008/07/12 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s terrible hard to drop in the middle of a situation like that, unprepared and all
[2008/07/12 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: my warmest congratulations!
[2008/07/12 12:09] You: Indeed
[2008/07/12 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: meet with sudane
[2008/07/12 12:09] Pip Torok: thank you gwyneth
[2008/07/12 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: is my suggestion
[2008/07/12 12:09] ThePrincess Parisi: and aliasi
[2008/07/12 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that will be a priority 🙂
[2008/07/12 12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane is online, but she was in a meeting.
[2008/07/12 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: or we will kick your butt out too
[2008/07/12 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: hehe
[2008/07/12 12:10] Sonja Strom: The Chancellor before Alexicon was Dnate.
[2008/07/12 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: oh right and he was DPU
[2008/07/12 12:10] Sonja Strom: He might be good to talk with also.
[2008/07/12 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: Dnate would help a lot, hes inworld a lot when you are pip
[2008/07/12 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: ok love you all i am outta here
[2008/07/12 12:10] Sonja Strom: Bye bye
[2008/07/12 12:10] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you jamie
[2008/07/12 12:10] Pip Torok: thank you like other chancellors i’ll need all the help i can get!
[2008/07/12 12:11] Sonja Strom: 🙂 probably…
[2008/07/12 12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we need a ceremony :)))))))
[2008/07/12 12:11] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/07/12 12:11] Sonja Strom: Right!
[2008/07/12 12:11] MT Lundquist: ok i need to go eat
[2008/07/12 12:11] MT Lundquist: bye for now
[2008/07/12 12:11] You: May we adjourn then? Next week same time – and RA debate TOMORROW
[2008/07/12 12:11] Sonja Strom: Bye MT.
[end]
RA Meeting: July 19, 2008
1. Administrative matters. (20 mins.: 09h00 – 09h20)
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. Future RA meeting times & plans. Note RA election schedule.
1f. “Consent agenda”: Any ministerial items for approval without debate?
(None.)
2. Sim 4 & general master plan: update (15 mins: 09h20 – 09h35)
3. Code reorganization report (15 mins: 09h35 – 09h50)
4. Chancellor removal and related matters. (30 mins: 09h50 – 10h20)
5. Other?
5. Open Discussion (10 mins.: 10h20-10h30)
Adjournment: 10h30
Transcript of 19 July 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Colonia Nova Praetorium
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items (or at least topical divisions)
====
[2008/07/19 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in November, roasted chestnuts…
[2008/07/19 9:09] You: mmmmm Big glass of papaya juice and .. um .. a handful of sardines …
[2008/07/19 9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Jamie 😀
[2008/07/19 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh in Neufreistadt, it would be chicken hats…
[2008/07/19 9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In Colonia Nova, most likely… togas 😉
[2008/07/19 9:10] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we get our own traditions here too 😉
[2008/07/19 9:11] You: chicken hats. Man I hate the taste of those feathers.
[2008/07/19 9:11] You: well
[2008/07/19 9:11] You: shall we get started?
[2008/07/19 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL jamie!
—-
[2008/07/19 9:11] You: 1a
[2008/07/19 9:11] Jon Seattle: Hi Arria 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria, hello!
[2008/07/19 9:11] You: Please indicate your assent to our recording a transcript. I assent.
[2008/07/19 9:11] Arria Perreault: Hi everybody :-))
[2008/07/19 9:11] Justice Soothsayer: I assent.
[2008/07/19 9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I assent.
[2008/07/19 9:11] ThePrincess Parisi: i assent
[2008/07/19 9:11] Arria Perreault: I assent
[2008/07/19 9:11] Jon Seattle: I ascent
[2008/07/19 9:12] Sudane Erato: i agree
[2008/07/19 9:12] Rose Springvale: assent
[2008/07/19 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Jon, nice typo 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:12] Bells Semyorka: i assent
[2008/07/19 9:12] Rose Springvale: its all part of the cloud thing right jon?
[2008/07/19 9:12] Jon Seattle: I ascend as well?
[2008/07/19 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re on a transcendental mood today!
[2008/07/19 9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ommmmm
[2008/07/19 9:12] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/07/19 9:12] You: 🙂 Spoken like a skeptical buddhist – right down to the question mark
[2008/07/19 9:12] Jon Seattle laughs
[2008/07/19 9:12] Justice Soothsayer snorts
[2008/07/19 9:13] Rose Springvale: brb
[2008/07/19 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very Zen indeed.
[2008/07/19 9:13] You: Right.
—-
[2008/07/19 9:13] You: 1b
[2008/07/19 9:13] Sonja Strom: Hi Sheen
[2008/07/19 9:13] You: agenda
[2008/07/19 9:13] You: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1973
[2008/07/19 9:13] Sheen Runo: Hi
[2008/07/19 9:13] You: All are welcome, but this is a formal meeting, so please have a seat & enjoy politely.
[2008/07/19 9:13] ThePrincess Parisi: naffie!
[2008/07/19 9:13] Sonja Strom: hi Naftali
[2008/07/19 9:13] You: Any proposals for change to the posted agenda?
[2008/07/19 9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello, Naftali!!
[2008/07/19 9:14] You: (I have one)
[2008/07/19 9:14] Jon Seattle: Hi Naftali, Sheen
[2008/07/19 9:14] ThePrincess Parisi: give me the link please
[2008/07/19 9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1973 Prin
[2008/07/19 9:14] You: agenda > /viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1973
[2008/07/19 9:14] You: I would like to move item 4 to before item 2.
[2008/07/19 9:14] Moon Adamant: hello all :))
[2008/07/19 9:15] Sonja Strom: Hi Moon
[2008/07/19 9:15] Jon Seattle hugs Moon
[2008/07/19 9:15] You: anything on the agenda, with that change?
—-
[2008/07/19 9:15] You: ok then
[2008/07/19 9:15] You: 1c
[2008/07/19 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, I’d wait until we’re quorate
[2008/07/19 9:15] You: we are 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh!
[2008/07/19 9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts
[2008/07/19 9:16] You: I see 4 of seven present
[2008/07/19 9:16] You: unless you’re a Gwynbot
[2008/07/19 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah perfect then. Sorry.
[2008/07/19 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m a bot, yes 😀
[2008/07/19 9:16] Jamie Palisades looks CAREFULLY at Gwyn’s floating last name
[2008/07/19 9:16] You: Ya never know
[2008/07/19 9:16] You: 1c …
[2008/07/19 9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[2008/07/19 9:16] You: Other than RA members, and Moon on the sim4 stuff, anyone else have a specific plan to talk to us today, so we can get you in the agenda?
[2008/07/19 9:17] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/07/19 9:17] Justice Soothsayer plans on being a quiet observer
[2008/07/19 9:17] Moon Adamant: i intend to speak
[2008/07/19 9:17] Sonja Strom: Is ThePrincess no longer here?
[2008/07/19 9:17] Moon Adamant: just in case 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:17] You: OK – on items other than sim4 Moon? Fine, just let us know when … (citizens get a privileged place and we save time if they tell us now – that’s why we have this agenda item)
[2008/07/19 9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prin looks pretty invisible to me.
[2008/07/19 9:18] Rose Springvale: sigh
[2008/07/19 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts again
[2008/07/19 9:19] You: so noted. Usually at this point we wait a minute to see if it’s a crash issue
[2008/07/19 9:19] You: I weill make some suggestions about how to proceed otherwise, smile
[2008/07/19 9:20] Jamie Palisades smiles placidly and checks a few things offline
[2008/07/19 9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn places a clock behind Jamie
[2008/07/19 9:20] You: gwyn? Is that necessary, or do you have a point?
[2008/07/19 9:21] Rose Springvale: Hi FRC
[2008/07/19 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[2008/07/19 9:21] You: aparently not 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:21] Sonja Strom: Hi FR
[2008/07/19 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no I haven’t)
[2008/07/19 9:21] Flyingroc Chung: hi
[2008/07/19 9:21] You: Er – I like you too Roc
[2008/07/19 9:21] Jon Seattle: yay FR!
[2008/07/19 9:21] Flyingroc Chung: huh?
[2008/07/19 9:21] Rose Springvale: smile
[2008/07/19 9:21] Flyingroc Chung: am I sitting on someone?
[2008/07/19 9:21] Rose Springvale: you are on his lap
[2008/07/19 9:21] Moon Adamant: hi FR 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re VERY welcome, FRC!
[2008/07/19 9:21] You: ahem, smile
[2008/07/19 9:21] Rose Springvale: seat next to him FRC
[2008/07/19 9:22] You: there we go – and welcome
[2008/07/19 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Once more, the primate saves the day!
[2008/07/19 9:22] You: this is a good meeting for us to have quorum
[2008/07/19 9:22] Sonja Strom: wb ThePrincess
[2008/07/19 9:22] You: 🙂 even if all might not wish it
[2008/07/19 9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/19 9:22] Rose Springvale: yay for all RA members who come to meetings!
[2008/07/19 9:22] ThePrincess Parisi: thank you
[2008/07/19 9:22] Flyingroc Chung: sorry about being absent last couple of ones
[2008/07/19 9:22] Flyingroc Chung: RL
[2008/07/19 9:22] You: ah. Prin. Roc has joined us, and I see you are back. I hope thelaptop’s behaving OK for you.
[2008/07/19 9:22] You: no prob
[—-
2008/07/19 9:23] You: we were on 1d
[2008/07/19 9:23] You: Routine notice – let me know if the RA transcripts need correcting please
—-
[2008/07/19 9:23] You: 1e
[2008/07/19 9:23] You: Future meetings 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: MT is on his way
[2008/07/19 9:23] You: We have one more scheduled
[2008/07/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: he asked to wait
[2008/07/19 9:23] ThePrincess Parisi: please
[2008/07/19 9:24] You: OK Prin – n p if he’s here soon – let’s finish up the routine stuff
[2008/07/19 9:24] You: 1e
[2008/07/19 9:24] You: This RA meets next Saturday at 9 am SLT
[2008/07/19 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no issues on the transcript, actually, rather the contrary 😉 )
[2008/07/19 9:24] You: and that’s out last scheduled meeting
[2008/07/19 9:24] You: Polls for the current election close today at noon LST
[2008/07/19 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Jamie. In NFS or CN?
[2008/07/19 9:24] You: NDS, we rotate 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or AM… we could do that for a change
[2008/07/19 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, right, ok.
[2008/07/19 9:25] You: and then I will if no one objects arrange for a tentative first meeting date for the newly seated RA on the next Saturday
[2008/07/19 9:25] You: let’s see, what IS that?
[2008/07/19 9:25] You: 2 august
[2008/07/19 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
[2008/07/19 9:25] You: and they can get off and running
[2008/07/19 9:25] You: I will communicate this to the elected incoming members after they;re annoucned 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:25] You: If they have an LRA that person can do as they like
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: but we’ll svae a tentative time for them for conveience, subject to change
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: thatg’s it for schedule
[2008/07/19 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh. Well. They’ll decide on their own, but ok.
[2008/07/19 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: where
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: let me just ask — no big probs with meeting next wek? any big items lurking that we’re supposed to get to by then?
[2008/07/19 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: we ususally do an announcement
[2008/07/19 9:27] You: I agree Gwyn – just making it easy for the handoff – new LRA can change it
[2008/07/19 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean when we are all together
[2008/07/19 9:27] You: anouncement of what prin?
[2008/07/19 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: the new RA
[2008/07/19 9:27] ThePrincess Parisi: who will tell that
[2008/07/19 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: when
[2008/07/19 9:26] ThePrincess Parisi: and where
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: ah
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: 1. SC will announce
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: 2. that SHOULD produce a new LRA
[2008/07/19 9:26] You: 3. that person will handle it
[2008/07/19 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah… usually it’s supposed to be the SC making the announcement
[2008/07/19 9:27] You: 4. I am not going to POST that meeting date
[2008/07/19 9:27] Jon Seattle: yes
[2008/07/19 9:27] You: 5. but we’ll just sav ethat saturday slto for them if they want it
[2008/07/19 9:27] You: ok? makes sense to all?
[2008/07/19 9:27] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat…
[2008/07/19 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1-3 surely
[2008/07/19 9:27] Connected
[2008/07/19 9:27] You: and this time I will make sure they get forum posting access immediately ? Right Gwyn?
[2008/07/19 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs*
[2008/07/19 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: riiight 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: what
[2008/07/19 9:28] You: heh heh do not worry too much about me influencing the poor, shrinking, terrified new LRA Gwyn
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: i mean we arent meeting to find out who won?
[2008/07/19 9:28] You: now?
[2008/07/19 9:28] You: No Prin
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: she wont be terrified
[2008/07/19 9:28] You: ‘polls close at noon
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: why
[2008/07/19 9:28] You: She? 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: so what when jon gives the info then the PIO announces
[2008/07/19 9:28] Flyingroc Chung: omg I havent voted.
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: Arria
[2008/07/19 9:28] You: I was staying gender neutral myself until the polls close
[2008/07/19 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR!!!!
[2008/07/19 9:28] ThePrincess Parisi: go vote FR
[2008/07/19 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn strangles the ape slowly
[2008/07/19 9:29] Flyingroc Chung: brb
[2008/07/19 9:29] You: Ahem 🙂 polls are open for an hour AFTER this meeting concludes folks
[2008/07/19 9:29] You: Roc
[2008/07/19 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: too late lol
[2008/07/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: roc go vote ffs
[2008/07/19 9:29] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/07/19 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[2008/07/19 9:29] Jamie Palisades sighs
[2008/07/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: sighs
[2008/07/19 9:29] You: Gwyn you and quorum seem to be an issue todaay …
[2008/07/19 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have an idea!
[2008/07/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: what quaorom
[2008/07/19 9:29] Jon Seattle: Yes, the polls will close at noon SLT.
[2008/07/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: what is your idea gwyen
[2008/07/19 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll go away, and the quorum problems will disappear 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/19 9:29] Arria Perreault: the PIO must wait the conformation of the SC chair
[2008/07/19 9:29] ThePrincess Parisi: ok bye
[2008/07/19 9:29] You: Gwyn if you are done with correcting me on transition matters, or trying, can we continue?
[2008/07/19 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure thing, Mr LRA 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:30] Jamie Palisades pleasantly smiles and waits
—-
[2008/07/19 9:30] You: 1f
[2008/07/19 9:30] You: consent items?
[2008/07/19 9:30] You: I know of none
[2008/07/19 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: who bought the guided tour?
[2008/07/19 9:30] You: that would bring us to item 4 – which we moved to in front of item 2
[2008/07/19 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: since its six months old that issue
[2008/07/19 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: EXCUSE ME
[2008/07/19 9:30] ThePrincess Parisi: i have an issue of concsent
[2008/07/19 9:30] Moon Adamant: sighs
[2008/07/19 9:30] You: got it – tour 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi sticks her tongue out at moon
[2008/07/19 9:31] You: it’s consent only if not controversial and easy to pass without objection 🙂 have one of those?
[2008/07/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah thats not controversial
[2008/07/19 9:31] You: OK 🙂 what?
[2008/07/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: we voted it in last term
[2008/07/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: who when and where is the tour
[2008/07/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: lets vote to get it
[2008/07/19 9:31] ThePrincess Parisi: no quorum
[2008/07/19 9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR is back in… 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: oh good
[2008/07/19 9:32] Flyingroc Chung: hi
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: wheeew
[2008/07/19 9:32] Rose Springvale: wb FRC
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: i keep crashing today
[2008/07/19 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent timing, Mr Chung!
[2008/07/19 9:32] Moon Adamant: wb FR
[2008/07/19 9:32] You: OK. Tour.
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: so can we vote to go ahead a buy a tour
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: see the thing about it being transfer has to do with the stuff like the things….
[2008/07/19 9:32] You: Prin – I do not know because the person who woudl tell us is the chancellor, who as you may recall was removed 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: like ……
[2008/07/19 9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the last suggestion we had last week was that we’d get not one, but at least two “tour devices”, so that a copy can be delivered to the Content Archivist
[2008/07/19 9:32] ThePrincess Parisi: well its not for him to say
[2008/07/19 9:32] Moon Adamant: really?
[2008/07/19 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: cos he misunderstood that the reason we need to have things in archives
[2008/07/19 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: that cant be resplaced
[2008/07/19 9:33] You: Do you have a motion to make regarding this that you would like to sugest is noncontroversial? If not let’s create a new agenda item 5 at THE END of the agenda
[2008/07/19 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: replaced
[2008/07/19 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine in recommending that the Executive buys at least two devices…
[2008/07/19 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: yes i move that we go ahead and buy two guided tour vehicles
[2008/07/19 9:33] You: (the consent agenda is only for little, quick stuff) (anything else is out of order, and comes AFTER scheduled items)
[2008/07/19 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: cos he misunderstood
[2008/07/19 9:33] ThePrincess Parisi: that is pretty fast
[2008/07/19 9:33] You: OK that’s a motion, basically directing the executive to act
[2008/07/19 9:34] You: is there a second?
[2008/07/19 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* well, a recommendation
[2008/07/19 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: no lets direct .. that we have it bought by someone else
[2008/07/19 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine in seconding it.
[2008/07/19 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: not the chancellor since h e has had six months and its not done
[2008/07/19 9:34] You: waiting for a second – if none I will suggest we take this BACK up near meeting end, when we can take more time with it
[2008/07/19 9:34] ThePrincess Parisi: someone besides the chancelor
[2008/07/19 9:34] Moon Adamant: er, it must the content archivist then
[2008/07/19 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Moon
[2008/07/19 9:34] You: ah good point 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie: [9:37] You: I’m fine in seconding it.
[2008/07/19 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You being me… I mean…
[2008/07/19 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[2008/07/19 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: who is you
[2008/07/19 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: am i you
[2008/07/19 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/19 9:35] You: hahah hang on
[2008/07/19 9:35] ThePrincess Parisi: no im bells
[2008/07/19 9:35] You: ah got it – gwyn seconded
[2008/07/19 9:35] You: OK then
[2008/07/19 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m also ok in discussing it under point 5, Mr LRA
[2008/07/19 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your call really…
[2008/07/19 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/19 9:35] You: here’s the deal 🙂 are you two agreed on whether this is a direction or a recommendation? if so we have a motion
[2008/07/19 9:36] You: and second
[2008/07/19 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh I see your point. Well… it’s a recommendation, since if it’s not, well, it becomes a bill, and the Chancellor can veto it 😉
[2008/07/19 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A recommendation can be simply ignored 😉
[2008/07/19 9:36] You: so it’s a motion to direct
[2008/07/19 9:37] You: OK 🙂 any other RA members wish to speak? Any prob with just passing it wihtout objection?
[2008/07/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: yes to direct someone like moon to buy the guided tour.. someone unbiased
[2008/07/19 9:37] You: FRankly I think this needs more work and oprefer to do it as item 5
[2008/07/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: good point
[2008/07/19 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh in that case I withdraw my second; I’m fine with a recommendation, not a direct order 😛 I think that’s a bad precedent, and we had our shares of badly gone direct orders :S
[2008/07/19 9:37] You: we don’t quite know who we’re directing for example
[2008/07/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: what more work could it need it happened six months ag o
[2008/07/19 9:37] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: gimme a break
[2008/07/19 9:37] ThePrincess Parisi: its ten dollars
[2008/07/19 9:37] You: let’s do it today and take it up – AFTER items 2 3 4
[2008/07/19 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: ive waited over six months
[2008/07/19 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: NO
[2008/07/19 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’m fine with that discussion under point 5.
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: Prin I think we can get it done, just needs a bit of sanding on the edges
[2008/07/19 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: im not
[2008/07/19 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let’s vote then 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: I rule it’s not a consent item, though
—
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: on to agenda item 4
[2008/07/19 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: (which we moved to before 2)
[2008/07/19 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: ok w/e
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: Chancellor removal items
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: first some announcements
[2008/07/19 9:38] ThePrincess Parisi: MT is on his way too
[2008/07/19 9:38] Moon Adamant listens
[2008/07/19 9:38] You: 1. Presumably you all know there’s a lot of comment on the forums 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: and a lot of lies there
[2008/07/19 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: LOTS
[2008/07/19 9:39] You: 2. I already announced my own views, which I’m thinking you know too
[2008/07/19 9:39] You: 3. Please note there is a pending SC appeal
[2008/07/19 9:39] ThePrincess Parisi: you all call me a liar.. read the forum.. theres some pretty bad lies there that i didnt tell
[2008/07/19 9:39] You: (procedurally I do not think we have to do anything about that – as to the appeal – just noting, they have one, they will do their thing – if it goes forward, they’ll announce a meeting for a hearing, I guess – but it does not …
[2008/07/19 9:40] You: require any immediate action from us .. anyone see that differently?)
[2008/07/19 9:40] Jamie Palisades looks around
[2008/07/19 9:40] You: ok then, so much for appeal
[2008/07/19 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Procedurally, you’re correct, Mr LRA.
[2008/07/19 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. technically our bill to remove the Chancellor is ‘pending review’ and not in effect.
[2008/07/19 9:40] You: and finally
[2008/07/19 9:40] You: 4. please be advised
[2008/07/19 9:40] You: Mr. Torok has resigned as replacement chancellor as of this morning.
[2008/07/19 9:41] You: He did so to make our burdens easier, not out of any issues with CDS
[2008/07/19 9:41] You: see here:
[2008/07/19 9:41] You: /viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1976
[2008/07/19 9:41] You: so
[2008/07/19 9:41] You: We need to elect a chancellor.
[2008/07/19 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh
[2008/07/19 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tricky 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:42] You: That concludes my announcements. Hello MT – please assent to the transcript when you get a chance
[2008/07/19 9:42] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/07/19 9:42] You: not at all, Gwyn. There is a vacancy.
[2008/07/19 9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn quotes from the Hitch-Hiker’s Guide.
[2008/07/19 9:42] Moon Adamant: Mr LRA
[2008/07/19 9:42] You: We fill it.
[2008/07/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: MT is here
[2008/07/19 9:42] Moon Adamant: if Pip resigned
[2008/07/19 9:42] You: Moon? Perhaps better if RA members speak first
[2008/07/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: i move MT run for chancellor
[2008/07/19 9:42] Moon Adamant: and if if the motion that removed Alex is suspended
[2008/07/19 9:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and Rose
[2008/07/19 9:42] You: We should take nominations for chancellor next, Prin, yes.
[2008/07/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: and i move that Moon nominates for chancellor too
[2008/07/19 9:43] Moon Adamant: then Alex is still the Chancellor, correct?
[2008/07/19 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Procedurally, no — our vote to remove the Chancellor is a bill, and it’s being reviewed by the SC, so it isn’t in effect.
[2008/07/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: no hes not
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: …
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: …
[2008/07/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: is he?
[2008/07/19 9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if the SC does not veto the bill…
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: I would like us to do three things
[2008/07/19 9:43] Moon Adamant: i’d prefer a qualified opinion, if you don’t mind
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: all be still please
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: …
[2008/07/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: it wasnt legislation
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: …
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: …
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: hush
[2008/07/19 9:43] MT Lundquist: how can the sc question a bill within the constitution?
[2008/07/19 9:43] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: let’s get the queue of items clear, hm?
—-
[2008/07/19 9:43] You: here is what I think we need to do, in this order
[2008/07/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 9:44] You: please listen, then RA members only, please critique it
[2008/07/19 9:44] MT Lundquist: sorry i need an update please
[2008/07/19 9:44] MT Lundquist: as i missed the start due to rl issues
[2008/07/19 9:44] You: 1. Listen to any RA member objections to proceeding with opening nominations for a replacement. Gwyn may already have one
[2008/07/19 9:44] ThePrincess Parisi: chippies
[2008/07/19 9:44] You: 🙂 chippies – I’m jealous – now that I know WHAT they are
[2008/07/19 9:44] You: 2…
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: 2. Hear any other relevant comments prior to nominations
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: 3. Take nominations – I know of two so far
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: 4. Vote
[2008/07/19 9:45] MT Lundquist: i’m afraid i’m not up to speed on this
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: now: can we do those 4 things in that order, RA members? SOund OK?
[2008/07/19 9:45] MT Lundquist: can i have an update please
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: MT: Pip resigned … so vacancy …
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: so first any rulemongering tricks 🙂 then elections if we can
[2008/07/19 9:45] You: got it?
[2008/07/19 9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn waits for the order of discussion on 1.
[2008/07/19 9:46] You: on to rulemong – er – procedural ojections then 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:46] You: Gwyn you had something?
[2008/07/19 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmpf.
[2008/07/19 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sure.
—-
[2008/07/19 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All things that the RA does is either a) legislation or b) constitutional amendments.
[2008/07/19 9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In both cases, the SC has to review them before they officially are approved as such.
[2008/07/19 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, the SC has an internal procedure:
[2008/07/19 9:47] ThePrincess Parisi: ok i didnt know that
[2008/07/19 9:47] Jamie Palisades smiles and listens and will respond in due course
[2008/07/19 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (which to the best of my knowledge was never revoked)
[2008/07/19 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If any but of legislation approved by the RA
[2008/07/19 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is not flagged by any member of the SC in 48 hours after the transcript/journal/minutes of the RA are published
[2008/07/19 9:47] MT Lundquist: so can we even discuss this if the decision on the bill is under review
[2008/07/19 9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: then the legislation gets approved automatically.
[2008/07/19 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, MT
[2008/07/19 9:48] You: let’sd let Gwyn finish first — expeditiously, please
[2008/07/19 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the objection.
[2008/07/19 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
[2008/07/19 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One member of the SC has indeed flagged the RA’s decision to remove the Chancellor Alexicon Kurka from his office for review.
[2008/07/19 9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now two things happen.
[2008/07/19 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) A SC meeting is called, and the SC can decide to veto the bill, or resubmit it to the RA again, or do nothing.
[2008/07/19 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) No SC meeting is called, but the Dean overrules the request for reviewing the bill
[2008/07/19 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: dont we have to wait then?
[2008/07/19 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: darn
[2008/07/19 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) No SC meeting is called AND the Dean doesn’t call a meeting. In that case, the bill NEVER becomes a law.
[2008/07/19 9:49] You: Gwyn.
[2008/07/19 9:49] You: Can we move from recitation of alleged SC procedure to what YOU believe the RA can or cannot do, please?
[2008/07/19 9:49] ThePrincess Parisi: tartie rose
[2008/07/19 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, the RA can ignore whatever they please, but they will need to face the SC’s wrath afterwards 😉
[2008/07/19 9:50] MT Lundquist: what no sc meeting ever
[2008/07/19 9:50] MT Lundquist: ??
[2008/07/19 9:50] You: (prin, no ill-meant personal remarks please)
[2008/07/19 9:50] You: Gwyn 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:50] You: You have not objected to our proposed actions 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: well she looks quite different today, i meant it not bad jamie
[2008/07/19 9:50] You: I acknowledge your fear of the SC’s wrath 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:50] MT Lundquist: i object
[2008/07/19 9:50] ThePrincess Parisi: i do too
[2008/07/19 9:51] MT Lundquist: on the basis that the last bill is before the SC
[2008/07/19 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So from the constitutional point of view, we never removed Alex as Chancellor, since the SC did not approve the bill… yet… and we shouldn’t be electing a new one.
[2008/07/19 9:51] You: OK — hang on 🙂 MT let’s get to you in a sec
[2008/07/19 9:51] MT Lundquist: for a decision as to its legality
[2008/07/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree with gwyneth
[2008/07/19 9:51] You: heh heh
[2008/07/19 9:51] You: You two in cahoots two weeks in a row?
[2008/07/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: so we just have to wait jamie, you are so impatient
[2008/07/19 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly, I’d say we wait for the SC.
[2008/07/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: no we really love each other, but moon isnt keen
[2008/07/19 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[2008/07/19 9:51] You: Let’s see if we can get a restatement for clarity
[2008/07/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: MT either
[2008/07/19 9:51] You: I am addressing Gwyn 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:51] You: I have some simple questions
[2008/07/19 9:51] ThePrincess Parisi: oh
[2008/07/19 9:52] You: I will ask for RA member comments after that 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’m finished for now…
[2008/07/19 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: are we in cahoots gwyeniie
[2008/07/19 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No comments 😉
[2008/07/19 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: 🙁
[2008/07/19 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/19 9:52] You: Gwyn: it is your view that as soon as the SC flagged the appeal, Alexi was restored as chancellor?
[2008/07/19 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No,
[2008/07/19 9:52] ThePrincess Parisi: she didnt say that jamie
[2008/07/19 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s the other way round
[2008/07/19 9:52] You: 🙂 and I didn’t ask you, Prin
[2008/07/19 9:52] You: please explain Gwyn
[2008/07/19 9:53] You: in nice little nonlawyer words please
[2008/07/19 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The bills we pass don’t get automatically approved, Jamie. We have always to wait 48 hours to see if any member of the SC flags them for review or not.
[2008/07/19 9:53] ThePrincess Parisi: ty cindy!
[2008/07/19 9:53] You: 🙂 so it is your view as a former SC dean and all that, that no RA act has force for 48 hours?
[2008/07/19 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So a decision made today (assuming we’d publish the transcript today) would never enter in force before Monday
[2008/07/19 9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s how it works 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hey, much better than before… the RA used to wait weeks or months 😀
[2008/07/19 9:54] You: 🙂 I do not need to comment on that polar view as it may not affect us today 🙂 I encourage the next RA to find out whether the SC in fact has the zen-like power claimed, and define it with some specificity 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:54] Flyingroc Chung: used to be the SC had to actively approve a bill before it became law
[2008/07/19 9:54] You: in the meantime
[2008/07/19 9:54] You: yes FR – and that CHANGED 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR, yes 🙂 Now they can sleep in peace if nothing untoward happens 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:55] You: so – Gwyn – let’s go with your theory 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘theory’ pfft
[2008/07/19 9:55] Sudane Erato: 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand
[2008/07/19 9:55] You: if so, then what was the effect of our electing Pip at the behest of you and others?
[2008/07/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA can approve whatever they please, Jamie
[2008/07/19 9:55] You: (All nonnormative descriptions of the legal rules are theory until proven, and people can disagree)
[2008/07/19 9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean we can abolish the Constitution if we wish to vote on that
[2008/07/19 9:55] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/19 9:56] You: Sorry Prin, and thx, this IS taking some time, but I think we’d better get Gwyn’s full view first, and understand if we wish to subscribe to it 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, if the SC flags any of our decisions for review before the 48 hour period is passed… well, the bill doesn’t become a law
[2008/07/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, we COULD technically elect a new Chancellor today.
[2008/07/19 9:56] You: Gwyn. What was the effect in your view of our election of Pip?
[2008/07/19 9:56] You: last week
[2008/07/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, it would be up to the SC to see if that makes sense or not, and tell us before Monday
[2008/07/19 9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The election of Pip wasn’t validated
[2008/07/19 9:56] You: if flagged for appeal, and only if then 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since the removal of Alex as Chancellor is pending review…
[2008/07/19 9:57] You: ah? our acts require positive validation, even if not appealed?
[2008/07/19 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I mean, we can’t have two Chancellors 😉
[2008/07/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: seems we should wait then .. the citizens were not happy that we didnt let them have an opportunity to have ppl say they wanted to be running for chancellor
[2008/07/19 9:57] MT Lundquist: thats true
[2008/07/19 9:57] MT Lundquist: would be a mess
[2008/07/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: you know what i mean.. i think we need to give notice
[2008/07/19 9:57] ThePrincess Parisi: and let ppl say they are interested in running.. thats what they were mad about we didnt tell them we have ppl that can run if they want
[2008/07/19 9:57] You: 🙂 here’s my last question for RA member and rule-expert Gwyn: Who is chancellor right now in your view?
[2008/07/19 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right now? Alex, since the SC hasn’t met yet
[2008/07/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: lets wait a week
[2008/07/19 9:58] ThePrincess Parisi: so he was in a huff over nothing!
[2008/07/19 9:58] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/07/19 9:58] You: OK – so – would it be incorrect in your view, gwyn, to repeal an act that is pending appeal? Or are we free to moot a pending appeal?
[2008/07/19 9:58] You: (My chat with SOME current SC members *suggests* that mooting it might not be illegal)
[2008/07/19 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So either the SC passes our bill, and Pip becomes Chancellor (until this morning when he resigns); or the SC veto’es/resubmits the bill, and we might have a second chance to vote on a new Chancellor; or the SC does nothing and, well, the thing fades away in the Void of Unpassed Bills 🙂
[2008/07/19 9:59] ThePrincess Parisi: moon raised her hand jamie
[2008/07/19 9:59] Moon Adamant: i can wait
[2008/07/19 9:59] You: yes. And MT before her, and you afer that Prin
[2008/07/19 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my view, Jamie, it’s fine to repeal an act that is pending appeal.
[2008/07/19 9:59] You: Any more from you, Gwyn?
[2008/07/19 9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We did that in the past actually…. so I see no problem with that. It becomes a political statement. 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:00] You: waiting for you to finish … Then I have MT, the Prin, then Moon
[2008/07/19 10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s all I guess…
—-
[2008/07/19 10:00] MT Lundquist: simply i object to playing with bills until they have gone through due process i.e. the SC
[2008/07/19 10:00] Jamie Palisades asks MT if he still wants to speak this time – noting we have no motion yet and are talking procedure
[2008/07/19 10:01] MT Lundquist: i therefore object to anything else at this stage
[2008/07/19 10:01] MT Lundquist: i want us to wait for the SC
[2008/07/19 10:01] MT Lundquist: if its needed I will make a motion that we wait for the sc decision
[2008/07/19 10:02] You: not yet 🙂 chance for that in a sec
[2008/07/19 10:02] You: thanks
[2008/07/19 10:02] ThePrincess Parisi: I think its important that we let them rule on this
[2008/07/19 10:02] You: Prin? your turn?
[2008/07/19 10:02] You: (and then Moon)
[2008/07/19 10:03] You: anything from you for now Prin?
[2008/07/19 10:03] ThePrincess Parisi: i said i think its really important that .. we let the SC rule.. i mean
[2008/07/19 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: with all thts been said in the forums and all, its a shame to not let them do thier thing.. and let the checks and balances be in place
[2008/07/19 10:04] You: OK. Moon (thx for patience)
[2008/07/19 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: let democracy run its course .. also
[2008/07/19 10:04] You: oops – sorry Prin, let me know when done – 2 mins limit please
[2008/07/19 10:04] Rose Springvale raises hand quietly
[2008/07/19 10:04] Moon Adamant: oh, just a simple comment
[2008/07/19 10:04] ThePrincess Parisi: sok
[2008/07/19 10:04] You: Ok: moon, then rose
[2008/07/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: if as shown here, there is no de jure bill to remove Alex from offcie untill the SC decides
[2008/07/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: and there appears to be a will to wait the SC decision
[2008/07/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: then Alex should be reinstated in office
[2008/07/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: not only dde facto
[2008/07/19 10:05] Moon Adamant: as also de jure
[2008/07/19 10:05] MT Lundquist: see gwyns comments he never left
[2008/07/19 10:05] ThePrincess Parisi: how can he be reinstated if he indeed never was removed
[2008/07/19 10:06] You: let’s let speakers finish please
[2008/07/19 10:06] Moon Adamant: thus invalidating any election for chancellor until the new RA is seated or the SC confirms the bill, whatever happens first
[2008/07/19 10:06] You: more, Moon?
[2008/07/19 10:06] Moon Adamant: any election*
[2008/07/19 10:06] Moon Adamant: no, finished, mr. LRA
[2008/07/19 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: but wont that depend on what the SC decides?
[2008/07/19 10:06] ThePrincess Parisi: if they indeed remove then .. well
[2008/07/19 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then it’s back to the RA to find a replacement, I guess 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:07] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 10:07] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry.
[2008/07/19 10:07] You: Rose is next
[2008/07/19 10:07] Rose Springvale: ready?
[2008/07/19 10:07] You: go pls
[2008/07/19 10:07] You: (I’m in the queue after that and will ask for others when Rose is done)
[2008/07/19 10:07] Rose Springvale: It seems to me that we are looking to the SC to resolve an issue that appears to be a political question, and withing the purview of the RA
[2008/07/19 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: resolve or affirm
[2008/07/19 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: simply that the RA ahs the power to vote
[2008/07/19 10:08] Rose Springvale: and as a matter of policy, it seems to me that the RA is supposed to be representing the people
[2008/07/19 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry
[2008/07/19 10:08] ThePrincess Parisi: :((
[2008/07/19 10:08] You: (let us know when done please Rose)
[2008/07/19 10:08] Rose Springvale: So personally, i’d like to see the RA withdraw is motion to remove the chancellor
[2008/07/19 10:09] Rose Springvale: as both a representation of our community, and out of fairness. I’d rather the RA do its work than wait for the SC to slap its hands
[2008/07/19 10:09] Rose Springvale: done
[2008/07/19 10:09] Sonja Strom holds up her hand
[2008/07/19 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe 🙂 good point, Rose 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:09] Sonja Strom: yes, that is a good point
[2008/07/19 10:09] MT Lundquist: i’d simply like to follow the procedure set down
[2008/07/19 10:09] MT Lundquist: ie let the SC do its job
[2008/07/19 10:10] MT Lundquist: it has a job
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: Thanks. I have myself – but will wait for those who haven’t yet spoken – and Sonja – and then maybe MT and Gwyn again?
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: so
[2008/07/19 10:10] MT Lundquist: lets let it do it
[2008/07/19 10:10] Sonja Strom: It has been pointed out to me that so far as we can see, Alexicon has not requested that he be allowed to continue as Chancellor or be reinstated. Do we know that he in fact wants to be?
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: Sonja next please
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: 🙂 yes Sonja
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: I talked to him after learning of Pip’s resignation
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: he is willing to serve the remainder of his term and would like to do so.
[2008/07/19 10:10] You: I’d have to ask that, if I were planning to make that motion 🙂 …
[2008/07/19 10:10] Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
[2008/07/19 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: then i may respond to his slander about me and MT
[2008/07/19 10:11] Arria Perreault: don’t forget that Alex’s team has some tasks to achieve too
[2008/07/19 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: he has lied in the forums
[2008/07/19 10:11] You: Prin
[2008/07/19 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: so if you want to reinstate him for that ok
[2008/07/19 10:11] You: you may speak against him WHEN and IF it’s pertinent 🙂 not yet
[2008/07/19 10:11] ThePrincess Parisi: yes we will talk about alexicons team arria
[2008/07/19 10:11] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:11] You: sonja? done?
[2008/07/19 10:11] You: and did I adequately answer?
[2008/07/19 10:12] You: sonja?
[2008/07/19 10:12] You: I will assume you are done then
[2008/07/19 10:12] You: in which case I have myself queued, and then will see if other RA members have more …
[2008/07/19 10:13] You: I was prepared to assume that we needed to fill Pip’s vacancy …
[2008/07/19 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not quite sure if I might speak afterwards and propose a motion…
[2008/07/19 10:13] You: .. which means a new election …
[2008/07/19 10:13] Sonja Strom: yes, my question was answered, thanks
[2008/07/19 10:13] MT Lundquist: and remember i have a motion pending to
[2008/07/19 10:13] You: (yes MT – trying to sort out what order we take ’em in and which all we have )
[2008/07/19 10:13] You: .. but Gwyn believes we cannot hold an election as it’s premature … so perhaps she has a suggestion about …
[2008/07/19 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/07/19 10:14] You: … what IS procedurally appropriate, smile. My own take is this:
[2008/07/19 10:14] You: We CAN act to do nothing (MT’s motion) .. and ..
[2008/07/19 10:15] You: We CAN act to ratify the view that Alexi is still chancellor (by reason of appeal) until replaced …
[2008/07/19 10:15] You: … which would mean he’s out if SC refuses appeal, as of that moment …
[2008/07/19 10:15] You: .. and we CAN also vote if we wish to select someone now CONTINGENTLY if and when a vacancy takes effect
[2008/07/19 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn waits for her turn and asks for 2 minutes whenever that is appropriate.
[2008/07/19 10:16] MT Lundquist: can we do contingently?
[2008/07/19 10:16] You: .. the third seems safest to me, but let’s talk about it. I suggest Gwyn talk next, then we let MT’s motion come to the floor, than take one from Gwyn if MT’s doesn’t end the matter
[2008/07/19 10:16] You: sure MT
[2008/07/19 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
[2008/07/19 10:16] You: I just do not like the idea of it staying vacant
[2008/07/19 10:16] You: Gwyn?
[2008/07/19 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, a short introduction… 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: First… why did the RA vote to remove Alex from office?
[2008/07/19 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: basically, because during the session of July 12,
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA could not validate that the Executive had any intention to follow its direct instructions to make payments
[2008/07/19 10:17] You: (me notes Gwyn’s clock is gone, uses his own)
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We tried a lot to figure out if people were paid or not
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We failed to find anyone who got a payment.
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But
[2008/07/19 10:17] MT Lundquist: and they weren’t
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Executive DID make the payments.
[2008/07/19 10:17] Sonja Strom: Hi Alexicon
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To the last cent.
[2008/07/19 10:17] Arria Perreault: Hi Alex 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But
[2008/07/19 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA didn’t know that, until 4 minutes after having voted.
[2008/07/19 10:18] MT Lundquist: after the bill was passed
[2008/07/19 10:18] Alexicon Kurka: hi all
[2008/07/19 10:18] Moon Adamant: hi alex 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my view, it was a problem of bad communication —
[2008/07/19 10:18] MT Lundquist: no
[2008/07/19 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: only two days and after twisteing his arm and binging him in here over and over
[2008/07/19 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor DID request the payments; the Treasurer DID make them
[2008/07/19 10:18] MT Lundquist: the money was paid AFTER the bill passed
[2008/07/19 10:18] MT Lundquist: AFTER
[2008/07/19 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: no on THURSDAY
[2008/07/19 10:18] Arria Perreault: only the payment
[2008/07/19 10:18] Arria Perreault: not the order
[2008/07/19 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the point, MT & Prin, is that the Executive DID follow the orders. They didn’t refuse.
[2008/07/19 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: of the week after the final ulimatum
[2008/07/19 10:18] MT Lundquist: no
[2008/07/19 10:18] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 10:18] ThePrincess Parisi: he had refused for ages
[2008/07/19 10:18] MT Lundquist: they didnt make the payment
[2008/07/19 10:18] You: all sto please
[2008/07/19 10:19] ThePrincess Parisi: until he was threatened
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:19] MT Lundquist: the whole point is the payment
[2008/07/19 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They got a week to do so, and did the transfers about 168 hours after we’ve requested, take an hour or two.
[2008/07/19 10:19] Moon Adamant: Gwyn has asked for time, i think
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes… well… my understanding is:
[2008/07/19 10:19] MT Lundquist: thats been pointed out to me by the EO about tier fees
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: I want Gwyn to be able to finish uninterrupted FOR the SHORT remainder of her time please
[2008/07/19 10:19] MT Lundquist: its the payment that matters
[2008/07/19 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one thing is removing a Chancellor from office because he refuses to obey the RA’s laws.
[2008/07/19 10:19] You: MT you are out of order please wait your turn
[2008/07/19 10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other thing is to remove a Chancellor because of bad communication!
[2008/07/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, we voted on the removal because from RA’s PoV the Executive did NOT act
[2008/07/19 10:20] MT Lundquist: or perhaps imcompetency
[2008/07/19 10:20] MT Lundquist: in*
[2008/07/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, the Executive just failed to inform us of their intentions… and did things *slightly* delayed.
[2008/07/19 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: he didnt for six months
[2008/07/19 10:20] MT Lundquist: slighlty
[2008/07/19 10:20] You: (your 4 minutes, twice what you asked for, is over in 30 secs)
[2008/07/19 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: oh come on .. slightly.. six months!
[2008/07/19 10:20] MT Lundquist: 6 months
[2008/07/19 10:20] You: excuse me
[2008/07/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas, Prin, the bill we passed set a deadline: july 12
[2008/07/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the past 6 months were a bit irrelevant
[2008/07/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: SO
[2008/07/19 10:20] MT Lundquist: and it was missed
[2008/07/19 10:20] ThePrincess Parisi: that was an ultimatum.. with LOTs of other things that he did wrong
[2008/07/19 10:20] You: are we carousing or governing?
[2008/07/19 10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My motion is to do two things:
[2008/07/19 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: and may i reind you LLEWLY, miss…. that when i told you i got paid.. YOU SAID.. my vote remains…
[2008/07/19 10:21] You: (MT and Prin please make your comments WHEN we are debating the two motions we will have, and WHEN they are pertinent.)
[2008/07/19 10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Vote on a reprimand to the Executive to fail to communicate properly their intentions in such an urgent and important matter: the office of the Chancellor was at stake!
[2008/07/19 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: so what changed.. CSDF didnt like you voting your mind
[2008/07/19 10:21] You: Prin
[2008/07/19 10:21] You: you are out of order
[2008/07/19 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: ok im done
[2008/07/19 10:21] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:21] ThePrincess Parisi: well i want time to answer later then.. ok ?
[2008/07/19 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Repeal the removal from office voted last week, since the assumptions that we based it on to make a vote simply are not correct.
[2008/07/19 10:22] You: if there are no more rude interrutions I will wait for gwyn to finish typing her motion before anything else.
[2008/07/19 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn is basically ignoring interruptions; I’m good at it 😉
[2008/07/19 10:22] You: Gwyn. Is that it?
[2008/07/19 10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Mr. LRA, it is 🙂 ty verymuch!
[2008/07/19 10:22] You: thank you. Here is where we are
[2008/07/19 10:22] Sonja Strom: I’m sorry, what was number 1)?
—-
[2008/07/19 10:22] You: I plan to take up MT’s motion now – it came first
[2008/07/19 10:22] You: THEN
[2008/07/19 10:23] You: We will restate Gwyn’s motion anf take it up IF it has not been mooted by MTs
* * *
[2008/07/19 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja: 1) Vote on a reprimand to the Executive to fail to communicate properly their intentions in such an urgent and important matter: the office of the Chancellor was at stake!
[2008/07/19 10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A reprimand is not even a bill, it’s a slap on their wrists saying: “you guys were naughty! tsk! forcing us to do bad decisions” 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:23] You: any RA member see a problem with doing those 2 things?
[2008/07/19 10:23] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: i do
[2008/07/19 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: LOTS
[2008/07/19 10:23] ThePrincess Parisi: cos i disagree totally with what gwyen said
[2008/07/19 10:24] You: OK but 🙂 can we vote on MT’s motion?
[2008/07/19 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: 1. i got my pay ment four minutes after we voted and i IMd gwyen and she said.. so what i would still vote to do this the same.. answer me why its different now gwyen
[2008/07/19 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Vote against it, then 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: im andswering
[2008/07/19 10:24] You: and thn you can speak AGAINST Gwyn’s
[2008/07/19 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: i have a lot to say about what gwyen said
[2008/07/19 10:24] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:24] ThePrincess Parisi: ill wait
[2008/07/19 10:24] You: MT just for our record, can you restate your motion please?
[2008/07/19 10:24] MT Lundquist: i would like to hear prins augument
[2008/07/19 10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too.
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: once it’s made, yes
[2008/07/19 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: what is your motion. please?
[2008/07/19 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: i just asked gwyen a qustions first i wanna know that
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: and what I do not want
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: is rambling chat without a point
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: so
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: where
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: is
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: the
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: motion?
[2008/07/19 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: what am i supoosed to do
[2008/07/19 10:25] You: MT? do you or do you not have one?
[2008/07/19 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: he said he wanted me to talk first then give his motion
[2008/07/19 10:25] MT Lundquist: the motion is
[2008/07/19 10:25] Moon Adamant: wait a bit Princess
[2008/07/19 10:25] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 10:26] MT Lundquist: yes i do want to hear prin first
[2008/07/19 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: this is very important
[2008/07/19 10:26] Moon Adamant: sighs
[2008/07/19 10:26] You: OK 🙂 no motion is on the table. Prin, 4 minutes 🙂 only fair, Gwyn got that
[2008/07/19 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: when i got my payment four mins after the RA voted fro MANY other reasons than what she said btw
[2008/07/19 10:26] ThePrincess Parisi: and… i said to gwyen i got it
[2008/07/19 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: she said omg.. its still very late..a nd i would still vote to keep him out .. i would not change my vote
[2008/07/19 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: why gwyen?
[2008/07/19 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: why did you say that then
[2008/07/19 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: now you changed your mind?
[2008/07/19 10:27] ThePrincess Parisi: and if we are voting to repeal what we did, then there are MANY other reasons that he needed to be removed.. and he LIED on the forum about me and MT and that HAS to be fully explored i think before we repeal anything
[2008/07/19 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyen can you answer me?
[2008/07/19 10:28] You: Prin? First: are you done?
[2008/07/19 10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I will, in two minutes 🙂 )
[2008/07/19 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: why did you say i would vote that anyway.. even if you got your payment
[2008/07/19 10:28] ThePrincess Parisi: well ok .. lets go to the beginning.. alexicon .. has said in the forums he asked me months ago to find out about a transfer guided tour..
[2008/07/19 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: because he ahs misunderstood his directive about archives.. this is no transfer.. but its not a unique item
[2008/07/19 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: it can be purchansed at any time
[2008/07/19 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: unlike a unique building
[2008/07/19 10:29] You: (90 seconds remain.)
[2008/07/19 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: so one he didnt have any reason to do that .. and he only asked me when he was only confronted by us that he handt dont it
[2008/07/19 10:29] ThePrincess Parisi: also he was making decisions about the events person based on ARIAs lies
[2008/07/19 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: and he made a volutneer for CDS suffer publically because he had not done his job
[2008/07/19 10:30] ThePrincess Parisi: also he tried to get us to py a him for things he did for us.. and really made a mockery out of our budget
[2008/07/19 10:30] Moon Adamant: are we being transcripted?
[2008/07/19 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: he didnt come back with the answers we asked, he didnt get the report on the website to us… like he was supposed to .. there were tons of other things.. starting at the beginning .. when he had
[2008/07/19 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: toget note cards out in the LM givers.. he didnt do it for three months
[2008/07/19 10:31] You: (Moon – yes) (Prin – finish up please)
[2008/07/19 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: he didnt let the volunteers do their gjobs they wanted to do
[2008/07/19 10:31] StopAll Animations Red Rose: Stopping 2 animations
[2008/07/19 10:31] StopAll Animations Red Rose: Done
[2008/07/19 10:31] ThePrincess Parisi: i have tons more that i cannot just do off the cuff and i move that we wait til we get ALL the facts to do anything else please
[2008/07/19 10:32] MT Lundquist: the motion is to allow the SC to rule on the legitimacy of the bill to remove the Chancellor last week before taking any other action in that regard
[2008/07/19 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: sedcond
[2008/07/19 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: second MTs r motion
[2008/07/19 10:32] MT Lundquist: before the RA takes any other action
[2008/07/19 10:32] Arria Perreault: we will lose time …
[2008/07/19 10:32] Arria Perreault: is it your goal?
[2008/07/19 10:32] You: MT – I think we’re there
[2008/07/19 10:32] ThePrincess Parisi: well he had six months
[2008/07/19 10:32] You: Arria
[2008/07/19 10:33] MT Lundquist: we aready did
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: please
[2008/07/19 10:33] MT Lundquist: 6 months
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: LMAO that is the funniest thing i heeard ever arria
[2008/07/19 10:33] Arria Perreault: we have to achieve some tasks
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: yeah you had six months
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: MT:
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: ffs
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: we have a motion and a second – and you have restated it just now
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: so make lies about bells arria
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: youliar
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: CHILDREN
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: knock it off
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: all of you
[2008/07/19 10:33] StopAll Animations Red Rose: Stopping 0 animations
[2008/07/19 10:33] StopAll Animations Red Rose: Done
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: No more personal attacks please
[2008/07/19 10:33] Arria Perreault: your only problem is that we did not work for your projects …
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: when she had a death in the family you lied about her to alexicon and he said ” i expected that of bells”
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: how dare you
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: Arria
[2008/07/19 10:33] You: you too
[2008/07/19 10:33] ThePrincess Parisi: you liar
[2008/07/19 10:34] You: OK 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: she was asking you for months to have a meeting
[2008/07/19 10:34] Arria Perreault: we were servant of the CDS
[2008/07/19 10:34] You: I need to bring a liittle focus to this
[2008/07/19 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: go to IM arria
[2008/07/19 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: this is the crux jamie
[2008/07/19 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: he appointed bells and actually arria is the one that didnt do what alexicon said
[2008/07/19 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: and then makes a lie about bells
[2008/07/19 10:34] You: no, this is a government meeting, unless all of you insist on making it a circus 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:34] Moon Adamant: are we still being transcripted? 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:34] ThePrincess Parisi: i hope so moon
[2008/07/19 10:34] You: now
[2008/07/19 10:34] You: if I still have any ear from the RA members
[2008/07/19 10:34] You: here is what I would like to do
[2008/07/19 10:34] Arria Perreault: TP, I think you are expressing many things of the whole term and not only the problem of the payment ….
[2008/07/19 10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn *waves*
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: its about it all arria
[2008/07/19 10:35] You: … first see if any RA member who has NOT SPOKEN has any comment ON MTs MOTION
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: it si NOT just the payment issue
[2008/07/19 10:35] You: prin
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: that is NOT what the only reason was
[2008/07/19 10:35] Arria Perreault: the removal was only on this …
[2008/07/19 10:35] You: just a sec while I change groups 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: i am sorry it boiled downt o that
[2008/07/19 10:35] Arria Perreault: you are making a package now
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: it is arria
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: its everything
[2008/07/19 10:35] ThePrincess Parisi: it was never just one thing
[2008/07/19 10:35] You: ok 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:35] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:35] You: ……
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: i WILL EJECT THE NEXT PERSON WHO SPEAKS OUT OF TURN
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: ..
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: any questions?
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: …
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: thank you 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: now
[2008/07/19 10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:36] You: FR you have not spoken on MT’s motion. Do you wish to?
[2008/07/19 10:37] You: I will take that as a no.
[2008/07/19 10:37] You: Sonja: you have anythign to add?
[2008/07/19 10:37] You: I will take that as a no
[2008/07/19 10:37] Flyingroc Chung: w00t
[2008/07/19 10:38] You: We have MT’s seconded motion, which if it passes should close debate for today..
[2008/07/19 10:38] You: it;s in the record above, go look.
[2008/07/19 10:38] You: Members please state your vote, I vote nay.
[2008/07/19 10:38] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/07/19 10:38] Sonja Strom: Sorry, was reading back in the chat.
[2008/07/19 10:38] You: np
[2008/07/19 10:38] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/19 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain, but I’d like permission to make a short statement why.
[2008/07/19 10:39] You: after the vote – and short
[2008/07/19 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes Mr LRA)
[2008/07/19 10:39] You: I need votes from FR and Sonja
[2008/07/19 10:40] Sonja Strom: I’m sorry, but I can’t remember the exact wording of this motion — that is why I was reading back in the chat.
[2008/07/19 10:41] You: [11:12] MT Lundquist: the motion is to allow the SC to rule on the legitimacy of the bill to remove the Chancellor last week before taking any other action in that regard
[2008/07/19 10:41] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand
[2008/07/19 10:41] You: in other words, no act to replace, reinstate, whatever
[2008/07/19 10:41] You: may we please wait until FR and sonja have voted
[2008/07/19 10:41] Flyingroc Chung: I vote no.
[2008/07/19 10:41] Sonja Strom: I feel that the RA should make its own decisions, and so will vote against this motion.
[2008/07/19 10:41] You: then Gwyn and Prin indicated a desire to … say … more
[2008/07/19 10:41] Sonja Strom: I also vote no.
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: thanks. FR?
[2008/07/19 10:42] Sonja Strom: he voted no
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: ah just saw it. OK.
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: Now
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: Motion fails 2-3-0
—-
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: but note, that doesn’t mean we will act
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: so next motion will be Gwyn’s
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: AFTER a ONE MINUTE statemetrn which each of Gwyn and Prin have requsted
[2008/07/19 10:42] You: Gwyn?
[2008/07/19 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Basically, MT’s motion would allow Alex to continue to be Chancellor (until the next term; or the SC meeting; whatever comes first), which is also what the CSDF wishes: having Alex finish his term. However, there would remain an unsolved issue: the RA would not admit politically that the decision made last week was based on incomplete information; and it would ignore the citizen’s wishes, which is something the RA *should* do, before everything. It would push the political decision to the Scientific Council, which is not a political entity, to make that decision for us. Thus, although the end result might be the same (Alex remains Chancellor), politically, I’d still prefer to “take another action” (and not merely inactivity).
[2008/07/19 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1 second 😉
[2008/07/19 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thank you.
[2008/07/19 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i move that we revote MTs motion
[2008/07/19 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont think fr and sonja totally understood
[2008/07/19 10:43] You: 🙂 have have abother motion pending first
[2008/07/19 10:43] You: actually, based on my IMs I think everyone DOES understand
[2008/07/19 10:43] ThePrincess Parisi: well i move that we vote again
[2008/07/19 10:43] You: Gwy? you are done? Then Prin, if you wish to make a short statement BEFORE we bring Gwyn’s motion back up, this is the time.
[2008/07/19 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: that lets alexicon stay chancellor
[2008/07/19 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that Prin should not tell what other people are thinking; that applies to her comments to me as well.
[2008/07/19 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: well you never answered my question gwyen
[2008/07/19 10:44] Sonja Strom feels intimidated by the presence of a monarch waving a sword in the air
[2008/07/19 10:44] ThePrincess Parisi: sorry.. i was threatened by the LRA
[2008/07/19 10:44] You: Ahem
[2008/07/19 10:44] You: unfortunately
[2008/07/19 10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, I asked the LRA for some time to answer that, but I guess there are more urgent things to discuss.
[2008/07/19 10:44] You: it is the job of a meeting presiding officer to keep order
[2008/07/19 10:44] Sonja Strom: Hi Pip
[2008/07/19 10:45] Moon Adamant: hi Pip 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:45] You: you lot do not always make this easy, sorry
[2008/07/19 10:45] You: now
[2008/07/19 10:45] You: Prin did you want to make a statement before we vote on Gwyn’s motion?
[2008/07/19 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i have my time to asking again to please have gwyen answer my quetion
[2008/07/19 10:45] You: sounds good 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:45] ThePrincess Parisi: i want gwyn to answer my question
[2008/07/19 10:45] You: Over to you Gwyn
[2008/07/19 10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure. I’m sorry, I haven’t prepared the answer lol
[2008/07/19 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: just say the truth
[2008/07/19 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: that would be nice :_)))
[2008/07/19 10:46] You: (I will next ask for comments from anyone who has NOT spoken – then paste in Gwyn’s motion – then call for the votes.)
[2008/07/19 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it’s easy to understand. I have no problem in admitting that I voted on the removal of the Chancellor based on a lack of information that wasn’t publicly available at the moment we voted.
[2008/07/19 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: no gwyen
[2008/07/19 10:46] ThePrincess Parisi: thats not the question
[2008/07/19 10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So once it was clear that the vote was based on incomplete/incorrect assumptions, I changed my mind.
[2008/07/19 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: what exactly changed then
[2008/07/19 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I tend to change my mind when learning new things, Prin 😉
[2008/07/19 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: exactly in not a book
[2008/07/19 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: what changed you are not answering me
[2008/07/19 10:47] You: *sigh* Prin you can ask people quetsions, but you cannot MAKE them answer the way you want, so I will take that as the answer Gwyn chose to give, and consider THAT 2 minute thread at THIS meeting completed.
[2008/07/19 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: you knew then that he authorized it……. and you said i would have still voted to kick him out
[2008/07/19 10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I learned that the Executive had no intention to ignore the RA’s bill, as we assumed on July 12. They just never told us so.
[2008/07/19 10:47] ThePrincess Parisi: what do you mean by that
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: explain
[2008/07/19 10:48] You: Forgive the personal observation, but why don’t you two go fight in the SC, if you must continue this, hm? This is the RA, we have business to conduct
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: you knew he had authorized payment cos i got paid
[2008/07/19 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ONE payment.
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: i want to knwo my answer to my question
[2008/07/19 10:48] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: two
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: mine
[2008/07/19 10:48] You: this is not going to be a debate 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: bells
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: that was more than two
[2008/07/19 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bells too?
[2008/07/19 10:48] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 10:48] ThePrincess Parisi: ok ill shut up
[2008/07/19 10:48] You: ..
[2008/07/19 10:48] You: last warning 🙂 not kidding
[2008/07/19 10:49] You: were there any comments from people who have NOT speak who wish ONE minute to speak BEFORE we vote on Gwyn’s motion?
[2008/07/19 10:49] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand in sheer fright
[2008/07/19 10:49] Sonja Strom: I would like to say that I personally feel the same way about the current situation as Gwyneth.
[2008/07/19 10:50] You: thank you Sonja
[2008/07/19 10:50] You: any others who have not spoken yet?
[2008/07/19 10:50] MT Lundquist: i do wish to speak
[2008/07/19 10:50] You: if not, Prin, we are going to vote now. It is my view that you and Gwyn each have spoken – at length – and had plenty of time to debate.
[2008/07/19 10:50] You: so I suggest we hear MT and then vote
[2008/07/19 10:50] You: unless FR has something too
[2008/07/19 10:51] You: MT?
[2008/07/19 10:51] MT Lundquist: well i’m concerned that we are about to make a bad situation worse
[2008/07/19 10:52] MT Lundquist: its bad that Alexicon, someone I personally supported did not prove to be a good chancellor
[2008/07/19 10:52] MT Lundquist: that he failed to do his job
[2008/07/19 10:52] Moon Adamant: are we still being transcripted?
[2008/07/19 10:52] MT Lundquist: worse that he wanted to take money personally out of CDS which reminded me of the Ulrika history
[2008/07/19 10:52] You: (please let MT finish)
[2008/07/19 10:52] You: (it is in fact completely OK for legislators to criticise the executive on nonpersonal matters)
[2008/07/19 10:53] You: (even if others disagree)
[2008/07/19 10:53] MT Lundquist: I personally spoke in skype to him at length to persuade him to drop that
[2008/07/19 10:53] MT Lundquist: so i find myself disappointed and let down that he then didnt do his job
[2008/07/19 10:53] You: done?
[2008/07/19 10:53] MT Lundquist: and now dissembles
[2008/07/19 10:54] MT Lundquist: and tries to change history
[2008/07/19 10:54] MT Lundquist: there are mony facts that have not been aired
[2008/07/19 10:54] MT Lundquist: we
[2008/07/19 10:54] You: (30 seconds please)
[2008/07/19 10:54] MT Lundquist: I can do that given time
[2008/07/19 10:54] MT Lundquist: i just think that CDS is best served by not dragging all this through the mud
[2008/07/19 10:54] MT Lundquist: but if needs be then I will
[2008/07/19 10:55] MT Lundquist: if you insist to pressing this then i request more time to present the case properly
[2008/07/19 10:55] You: 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:55] MT Lundquist: otherwise if its presented after the fact any decision now could look foolish and premature
[2008/07/19 10:55] You: MT, we will have a motion, and before the vote, I think we shoud take your request as a motion to extend time for debate
[2008/07/19 10:55] ThePrincess Parisi raises her hand tooo
[2008/07/19 10:55] You: so to do this properly
[2008/07/19 10:56] You: hang on 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds the motion to extend the debate
[2008/07/19 10:56] You: MT has moved to extend debvate in Gwyn’s motion for 15 minutes before we vote. If you do not pass it, I will run the vote now. SO this will be about: vote now, or vote in 15 minutes. Got it?
[2008/07/19 10:56] You: And can I have a second for MT’s procedural motion?
[2008/07/19 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: you have one sir
[2008/07/19 10:56] You: ah good gwyn thatnks 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:56] ThePrincess Parisi: gwyn did it
[2008/07/19 10:57] You: Here’s my view 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:57] You: I suppose that in a legislature I should not be surprised when people want to speak at length to describe, or spin, their own positions, but it DOES NOT make running a meeting easy. I would be very grateful if all would focus now on ACTION ITEMS not oration. If you want to make speeches, POST them. Of go attend the SC meeting and maybe THEY want to hear you 🙂 For my part I think the Forums already are …
[2008/07/19 10:57] You: CLOGGED with self serving speeches and rudeness and I am disappointed.
[2008/07/19 10:57] You: so I will vote no 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:57] You: any other discussion of MT’s motion to extend debate?
[2008/07/19 10:57] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/19 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh lol
[2008/07/19 10:58] You: oops – OK we can go to vote too: Members please state their vote: I vote nay, got MT’s aye
[2008/07/19 10:58] Sonja Strom: I will support the motion to extend time for MT to explain his position. aye
[2008/07/19 10:58] You: Prin? FR? Gywn?
[2008/07/19 10:58] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/07/19 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that MT has explained himself properly already; so I vote nay on extending the debate.
[2008/07/19 10:58] You: Pirn?
[2008/07/19 10:58] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/07/19 10:59] You: motion passes 4-2-0
—-
[2008/07/19 10:59] You: so we will debate Gwyn’s motion 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: extend the debate .. but not to say bad things about alex.. to tal k about what WE did wrong and why we are doing this
[2008/07/19 10:59] You: we have rules for this sort of thing
[2008/07/19 10:59] ThePrincess Parisi: oh ok
[2008/07/19 10:59] You: 🙂
[2008/07/19 10:59] You: first just to be helpful, note this:
[2008/07/19 11:00] You: [11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Vote on a reprimand to the Executive to fail to communicate properly their intentions in such an urgent and important matter: the office of the Chancellor was at stake! [11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Repeal the removal from office voted last week, since the assumptions that we based it on to make a vote simply are not correct.
[2008/07/19 11:00] You: That’s what we are debating
[2008/07/19 11:00] You: 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:00] You: Now
[2008/07/19 11:00] You: I suggest 2 minute limits, and noone gets to repeat until others are done – sop if someone has a 6 minute speech they can doe it in 3 parts
[2008/07/19 11:00] You: hm?
[2008/07/19 11:01] Sonja Strom: sounds good
[2008/07/19 11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to speak a bit, but I’ll let someone speak first this time.
[2008/07/19 11:01] You: not hearing any obj’
[2008/07/19 11:01] You: I suggest MT speak first, if Gwyn as motion makes does not wish to, then let’s take hands from RA members. After i round of the RA let’s see if we have nonRA members
[2008/07/19 11:01] You: MT? 120 secs
[2008/07/19 11:01] MT Lundquist: ok
[2008/07/19 11:02] MT Lundquist: well as i said before i know there are other facts that have yet to be surfaced that raise concerns about Alexicons position as chancellor
[2008/07/19 11:03] MT Lundquist: that time needs to be given for those facts to be debated if we are intent on persuing this course of action in Gwyns motion
[2008/07/19 11:03] MT Lundquist: therefore I believe we should wait , not be hasty, then act when all facts are presented
[2008/07/19 11:04] MT Lundquist: I suggest therefore that we wait until next weeks meeting to have heard all the facts before deciding
[2008/07/19 11:04] You: (time – finish up for this round pls?)
[2008/07/19 11:04] MT Lundquist: the case needs to be made carefully not in a rushed manner at this meeting
[2008/07/19 11:05] MT Lundquist: i wish to amend Gwyns bill that we wait one week before voting
[2008/07/19 11:05] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/07/19 11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It won’t be a friendly, but we can vote on the amendment perhaps?
[2008/07/19 11:06] Flyingroc Chung: does this RA actually have another session?
[2008/07/19 11:06] You: next week 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:06] You: OK – MT – let;’s see hmm – checking motion
[2008/07/19 11:06] Rose Springvale raises hand to be added to queue if appropriate
[2008/07/19 11:06] You: so, MT, you move to amend Gwyn;s motion to delay it for one week, basically?
[2008/07/19 11:07] You: because procedurally, it;s easier to just vote it down and let her er-arise it
[2008/07/19 11:07] MT Lundquist: yes to allow the facts to be presented
[2008/07/19 11:07] MT Lundquist: all the facts
[2008/07/19 11:07] MT Lundquist: and i would also request that all parties be asked to agree that chat logs be approved for use and not be against TOS
[2008/07/19 11:08] You: Not trying to be dificult here, but I think the right way procedurally is just to vote it down and say you will consider next week. If you disagree, could you please type in her motion, as you wish to amend it, in the form you want it amendmed?
[2008/07/19 11:08] MT Lundquist: chat logs will prove interesting
[2008/07/19 11:08] You: 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:08] ThePrincess Parisi raises hand
[2008/07/19 11:09] MT Lundquist: basically add that the votes for 1 and 2 be next weeks date
[2008/07/19 11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. that’s a separate thing, though, and overruling LL’s ToS might need some time to ask LL if that’s possible or not anyway…
[2008/07/19 11:09] You: MT, I have indicated that I have procedurally rejected your amendment, since I can’t frame it as an action. And suggest you either restate it or we just go on.
[2008/07/19 11:09] MT Lundquist: not overruling LLs tos
[2008/07/19 11:10] MT Lundquist: that alex arria etc alow us to use chat logs where appropriate in support of the case
[2008/07/19 11:10] You: Um – chat logs – interestuing – but IS that part of ANYONE’s motion? Maybe I missed something?
[2008/07/19 11:10] MT Lundquist: everyone is asked to agree
[2008/07/19 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh sorry
[2008/07/19 11:10] MT Lundquist: if they dont well…….
[2008/07/19 11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/07/19 11:11] Rose Springvale thinks all such logs should be approved by all parties after viewing them, as they are so easy to alter
[2008/07/19 11:11] Rose Springvale: if relevant at all
[2008/07/19 11:11] You: OK … “you are here” … I have rejected MT’s proposed amendment as not well formed and suggest he just vote no on Gwyns. We are partway through the 15 minute period. Does anyother RA member wish to speak, before I look for other speakers?
[2008/07/19 11:11] ThePrincess Parisi: agreed rose
[2008/07/19 11:11] MT Lundquist: yes we could do that
[2008/07/19 11:11] MT Lundquist: but we need time to do that
[2008/07/19 11:11] Rose Springvale does not agree they are relevant
[2008/07/19 11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a prepared statement, it won’t take 120 seconds 😉
[2008/07/19 11:11] You: ahem
[2008/07/19 11:11] Rose Springvale and is out of order, sorry
[2008/07/19 11:11] ThePrincess Parisi: me too
[2008/07/19 11:11] ThePrincess Parisi: eject
[2008/07/19 11:11] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/19 11:12] You: good. Go Gwyn – and others please afterwards indicate if you have comments
[2008/07/19 11:12] MT Lundquist: oh they are relevant inmy opinion and i’m sure when seen in others to
[2008/07/19 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My motion is actually simple to understand. The RA *can* make mistakes; and often *will* make them; specially if they are done on incomplete/erroneous information. Prin claimed a bit ago that after all a few people had been paid before we voted last week (I was just aware of one payment, not several). Miscommunication — or withholding critical information — makes the RA do unpopular decisions. Now, in my mind, my vote last week was just because of ONE thing: the Executive’s failure to address payments. We have, after a week, found out that it was not so: the Executive had followed their internal procedures to make payments, and made them as well, to the last cent. If it did “4 minutes late” or a few days before our vote, that’s irrelevant: the point is, they *did* comply with the RA’s demands. However, in my mind, they also were a bit careless in not informing us about their intent, thus forcing us to make a bad decision. I thus move to add a reprimand to the Executive — please don’t withhold
[2008/07/19 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: critical information from the RA, when we need it to decide; but, naturally enough, the decision made last week was done on wrong assumptions made at that time, and I move that we void our decision, and not wait for the SC. As for discussing the Executive’s performance this term, I’m perfectly all right to discuss it on a SEPARATE session and a different motion; the bill last week was just because for the lack of payment. We should separate both issues here. Thanks, that’s all.
[2008/07/19 11:12] Jamie Palisades reads
[2008/07/19 11:12] You: any other RA members in queue?
[2008/07/19 11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And for the record, I reject MT’s amendment to my motion as ‘friendly’, but we can put it to the vote if the RA wishes.
[2008/07/19 11:12] You: not hearing any
[2008/07/19 11:13] You: and gwyn, I have ruled his motion is procedurally untenable, since the proper way to dispose of it is just to vote no to yours. (I can be overruled if the RA likes)
[2008/07/19 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: i am
[2008/07/19 11:13] You: OK no other RA member comments yet – so –
[2008/07/19 11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2008/07/19 11:13] ThePrincess Parisi: now i need more time, cos she has lied again about me
[2008/07/19 11:13] You: I will make a quick one, or try, then ask for non RA members – and come back to you prin, got it
[2008/07/19 11:13] Sonja Strom holds up her hand
[2008/07/19 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: i am sorry she says i told her that ppl got paid before i didnt say that.. i said we got paid four minutes after we removed alexicon and i gave her the notecard with things she coudl verify to prove it
[2008/07/19 11:14] You: …
[2008/07/19 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: then she said when i told her that
[2008/07/19 11:14] You: queue is:
[2008/07/19 11:14] ThePrincess Parisi: she would have voted that anyway
[2008/07/19 11:14] You: Prin wishes to finish (120 secs), then me, then Sonja, then we’ll see
[2008/07/19 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont really care what happnes here. I made my point. BUT.. think we should remove ourselves some of us….
[2008/07/19 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: we do reprsent the public, but that doesnt mean we come in here.. unprepared.. vote and when they complain…….we go ok i reverse.. we need to do our homeweork better and stay on top of whats going on .. and if we had .. then six months in this wouldnt be happening.. let this be a lesson for future RAs to have more control and more preparation over what they are doing.. and MORE let the citizens also be more involved with their factions to let their reps KNOW how they feel ahead of time.. this is NOT ALEXICONS fault.. its everyones! RA .. and the citizens..those who yell after the fact and didnt get involved.. who helped alex? who helped us decide.. who offered him assistance.. i scrambled to get volunteers.. aside from arria that is… who else did that for him ? i hate that he is made a scape goat.. LORD knows i know more than anyone what that is like. but if we can learn from this .. all of us.. then we have a better CDS.. and i believe that is why every one of us is here.
[2008/07/19 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: . cos I am really amazed that RA members voted.. then when ppl complained they say oh i didnt knwo it all … well.. this has been going on for weeks.. and months whith him .. and no one apparently read the mintues .. who said they didnt know and also ……….
[2008/07/19 11:15] ThePrincess Parisi: but i will say also again.. why does gwyen keep distorting facts with many words.. for people
[2008/07/19 11:15] Moon Adamant: my, you write fast
[2008/07/19 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: we got PAID AFTER THE VOTE
[2008/07/19 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: NOT BEFORE
[2008/07/19 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: why does she keep saying that
[2008/07/19 11:16] You: (hush Moon)
[2008/07/19 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: and when i told her we got paid after.. she said that ….
[2008/07/19 11:16] You: (30 secs prin)
[2008/07/19 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: i would have voted that way anyhow
[2008/07/19 11:16] ThePrincess Parisi: what changed? she never answered
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: she knew alex had submitted if i got paid
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: but my big speach stands
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its OUT fault
[2008/07/19 11:17] You: (time, prin, finish up please)
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: alex is a scape goqat
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its gwyens
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its sonja
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its me
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its MT
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its jamie
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: well brian
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: its our falutlt too and the citizens
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: for not getting more invovlved
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: faster
[2008/07/19 11:17] You: please stop.
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: and arria for holding out on bells
[2008/07/19 11:17] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 11:17] You: …
[2008/07/19 11:18] You: Queue is me, Sonja and then who ever has not yet spoken.
[2008/07/19 11:18] You: as for me: I generally agree with the second half of Gwyn’s reasoning, above. I respectfully disagree with MT’s suggestion that we would be rushed, if we acted today. …
[2008/07/19 11:18] You: some did not seem to feel we were rushed last week, and assured me that there had been plenty of time to investigate .. it’s all on the record. I believe we ERRED and SHOULD be quick to correct errors. Anything else I have to say on that is posted; viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1970
[2008/07/19 11:18] You: that’s it.
[2008/07/19 11:18] You: Sonja?
[2008/07/19 11:18] Sonja Strom: Jamie, what did you mean in saying “I have ruled his motion is procedurally untenatbel?” Should it be stated in another way that would be better?
[2008/07/19 11:19] You: 🙂 Sonja let me try to answer
[2008/07/19 11:19] You: MT wanted to amend gwyn’s motion to say this
[2008/07/19 11:19] ThePrincess Parisi: i need two weeks to read gwuens post alone
[2008/07/19 11:19] You: ‘…”Do gwyn’s motion next week not now”
[2008/07/19 11:19] You: (hush all please)
[2008/07/19 11:19] You: and sonja, that does not “work” as a meeting procedure
[2008/07/19 11:19] You: the right way to delay a motion is to table it, or vote against it, not amend it
[2008/07/19 11:19] Sonja Strom: ah, ok, so you did not mean Gwyn’s motion itself?
[2008/07/19 11:20] MT Lundquist: so i would argue jamie that voting no is not a proper way to handle my motion
[2008/07/19 11:20] You: correct sonja
[2008/07/19 11:20] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/07/19 11:20] Sonja Strom: thanks, done.
[2008/07/19 11:20] You: well may I make a constructive suggestion?
[2008/07/19 11:20] MT Lundquist: becuase i am asking for one weeks delay
[2008/07/19 11:20] You: can we take MT’s motion as a motion to close debate on this today, and bring it up next week?
[2008/07/19 11:20] You: that’d do it
[2008/07/19 11:20] You: hm?
[2008/07/19 11:20] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/07/19 11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh. Not as ‘friendly’, but we can vote on it.
[2008/07/19 11:21] You: k _ let’s let Sonja finish first as she was in queue, then vote on THAT
[2008/07/19 11:21] Rose Springvale: grrr
[2008/07/19 11:21] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/07/19 11:21] You: (hush rose)
[2008/07/19 11:21] Rose Springvale raised her hand hours ago!
[2008/07/19 11:21] You: Sonja first please
[2008/07/19 11:21] Sonja Strom: sure, we can vote on MT’s motion to move this decision to next week.
[2008/07/19 11:21] Sonja Strom: I vote no.
[2008/07/19 11:21] You: (and Rose, a motion to close debate seems to me to be privileged – but if you were in queue already and I missed it, I apologize )
[2008/07/19 11:22] You: any objection to giving Rose 60 seconde first?
[2008/07/19 11:22] ThePrincess Parisi: no
[2008/07/19 11:22] Rose Springvale: never mind
[2008/07/19 11:22] Rose Springvale: i don’t need it
[2008/07/19 11:22] You: kk
[2008/07/19 11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: None, I’d like to hear Rose too 😀
[2008/07/19 11:22] You: then let’s vote – to be specific – this is a vote to close debate and stop this item for a week
[2008/07/19 11:23] You: Members please state their vote. I vote nay. I note sonja votes nay.
[2008/07/19 11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote nay.
[2008/07/19 11:23] Flyingroc Chung: I vote no
[2008/07/19 11:23] You: FR? Prin? MT?
[2008/07/19 11:23] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/19 11:23] ThePrincess Parisi: abstain
[2008/07/19 11:23] You: OK.
[2008/07/19 11:23] You: motion failes 1-4-1
—-
[2008/07/19 11:23] You: debate continues
[2008/07/19 11:24] ThePrincess Parisi: its two and a half hours now
[2008/07/19 11:24] You: I have only Rose in queue – others? WE are lmost out of the extended time
[2008/07/19 11:24] Rose Springvale withdraws.
[2008/07/19 11:24] You: OK 🙂 Vote sounds good to me
[2008/07/19 11:24] You: any other urgent desires to speak from anyone?
[2008/07/19 11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn remains silent for a change…
[2008/07/19 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:25] Sonja Strom: Hi Gonta
[2008/07/19 11:25] You: right then – again –
[2008/07/19 11:25] You: [11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Vote on a reprimand to the Executive to fail to communicate properly their intentions in such an urgent and important matter: the office of the Chancellor was at stake! [11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Repeal the removal from office voted last week, since the assumptions that we based it on to make a vote simply are not correct.
[2008/07/19 11:25] You: Members please state their vote. I vote aye.
[2008/07/19 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye.
[2008/07/19 11:25] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/07/19 11:25] MT Lundquist: is there two votes
[2008/07/19 11:25] MT Lundquist: or one
[2008/07/19 11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One motion with two points, MT.
[2008/07/19 11:25] MT Lundquist: i want it clear
[2008/07/19 11:26] You: no – all as one, was the motion, i think
[2008/07/19 11:26] You: need votes from FR, Prin, MT
[2008/07/19 11:26] Flyingroc Chung: that facts have arisen since last week’s vote and claims that more are yet to be aired shows that we have been too hasty last week.
[2008/07/19 11:26] Flyingroc Chung: I vote aye
[2008/07/19 11:26] You: need two more votes please
[2008/07/19 11:27] Flyingroc Chung: we can take up removal again next week if we need to.
[2008/07/19 11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed we can…
[2008/07/19 11:27] You: (correct, FR)
[2008/07/19 11:27] You: but we are still voting.
[2008/07/19 11:27] ThePrincess Parisi: abstain
[2008/07/19 11:27] MT Lundquist: abstain
[2008/07/19 11:27] You: OK. Motion passes 4-0-2.
—-
[2008/07/19 11:27] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[2008/07/19 11:27] You: Just a sec please 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:27] You: a few procedural notes.
[2008/07/19 11:28] You: 1. I will notify SC and post it to forums
[2008/07/19 11:28] You: 2. Whether that moots their curent appeal is up to them, not us.
[2008/07/19 11:28] You: 3. I note Aleixcon is here. I confirm that you are chancellor and remain so, Alexi.
[2008/07/19 11:28] Moon Adamant applauds
[2008/07/19 11:28] You: 4. We’re way over time so may have to push other items to next week.
[2008/07/19 11:28] You: and finally
[2008/07/19 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: assuming
[2008/07/19 11:28] Alexicon Kurka: thanks all
[2008/07/19 11:28] ThePrincess Parisi: now what if?
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: no no
[2008/07/19 11:29] You: 5. No gloating, please.
[2008/07/19 11:29] MT Lundquist: assuming the sc doesnt appeal this vote
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: no i have a guestion
[2008/07/19 11:29] You: exactly so MT, correct
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: lol
[2008/07/19 11:29] You: I have Moon, then Prin, OK?
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: its not true til the SC doesnt flag it
[2008/07/19 11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s their prerrogative, yes.
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: so actually hes not chancellor now
[2008/07/19 11:29] You: can Moon speak first? she asked first
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: cos …well .. wait
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: hmm
[2008/07/19 11:29] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 11:29] You: I will respond to Prin after she speaks in turn 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:29] You: moon?
[2008/07/19 11:30] Moon Adamant: i actually was going to ask only, that after the vote, which was very clear, that the good names of the Executive branch would be cleared by a formal re-instament. Thank you.
[2008/07/19 11:30] You: OK. Prin?
[2008/07/19 11:30] You: (then me ) (and then anybody else should speak up, we’re almost done.)
[2008/07/19 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont know i am thinking that if what we did last week doesnt stand til the SC is done
[2008/07/19 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: then how can this stand til the SC is done
[2008/07/19 11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/07/19 11:30] ThePrincess Parisi: so is he? or isnt he?
[2008/07/19 11:30] MT Lundquist: cleared now thats a whole new point Moon
[2008/07/19 11:30] MT Lundquist: they were just censured
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: Prin when you are done I will try an answer
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: and Gwyn will tell me why I am wrong 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/19 11:31] Sonja Strom raises her hand.
[2008/07/19 11:31] ThePrincess Parisi: gywns also wrong a lot
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: sonja, after Prin and me
[2008/07/19 11:31] Sonja Strom: ok
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: prin done?
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: kk then
[2008/07/19 11:31] You: here’s my take – good to spell it out, so thank you for asking Prin
[2008/07/19 11:32] You: 1. the act which was appeal was last week’s removal
[2008/07/19 11:32] You: 2. the replacement by Pip necessarily went with that, but is sort of irrelevant now
[2008/07/19 11:32] You: 3. The SC appeal did SOMETHING (on which Gwyn and I might not agree) to put it on hold or make it reversible
[2008/07/19 11:32] You: 4. But we have now REPEALED the removal by a vote here
[2008/07/19 11:33] You: 5. So it’s my guess the SC will decide it’s moot – but that’s their decision not ours – and people can go give them their own views
[2008/07/19 11:33] You: 6. This act TODAY
[2008/07/19 11:33] You: – a censure and a reinstatement –
[2008/07/19 11:33] You: can be appealed too
[2008/07/19 11:34] You: in which case
[2008/07/19 11:34] You: 1. its effectiveness can be thrown in to question – same deal as last week pretty much
[2008/07/19 11:34] You: but also
[2008/07/19 11:34] You: 2. That wouldn’t remove Alexi
[2008/07/19 11:34] You: because as of the SC acceptance of the last appeal he’s still in, until the SC acts
[2008/07/19 11:34] You: OK …
[2008/07/19 11:35] MT Lundquist: i disagree slightly alex
[2008/07/19 11:35] You: anyone have comments, or questions, or that, for now?
[2008/07/19 11:35] MT Lundquist: jamie sorry
[2008/07/19 11:35] You: np go for it
[2008/07/19 11:35] You: I welcome correctioms to the above
[2008/07/19 11:35] You: but I want us all to leave here with a common understanding (grin) if possible
[2008/07/19 11:35] MT Lundquist: if the SC uphold last weeks bill then casts down this weeks then we would have no chancellor
[2008/07/19 11:35] You: ah YES
[2008/07/19 11:35] ThePrincess Parisi: what if its flagged
[2008/07/19 11:35] You: I agree MT
[2008/07/19 11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I actually don’t, but I’ll let MT finish his argument first.
[2008/07/19 11:36] MT Lundquist: thats it
[2008/07/19 11:36] You: MT, if they act dispositively, that could happen – basically they would need to reject appeal 1 and accept theoretical appeal 2
[2008/07/19 11:36] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/19 11:36] MT Lundquist: in theory
[2008/07/19 11:36] You: Gwyn is welcome to disagree though 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:37] You: (and Prin, flagging alone doesn’t perturb Alexi’s holding office at this stage)
[2008/07/19 11:37] You: Gywn? anyone else?
[2008/07/19 11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. Even the all-powerful SC cannot put in force a bill that was repealed by the RA 😉
[2008/07/19 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: ok
[2008/07/19 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: does he plan to implement the bill we passed early in the term
[2008/07/19 11:37] You: Gwyn heh heh to me that sounds like a question the SC would have to debate
[2008/07/19 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: about the inagural
[2008/07/19 11:37] You: .. forever …
[2008/07/19 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: and the volunteers ?
[2008/07/19 11:37] ThePrincess Parisi: and the hall of fame.. or defy me personally on that too
[2008/07/19 11:38] You: hang on please 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: so if i touched it, he’s gonna just not do it
[2008/07/19 11:38] You: I have a constructive suggestion about that
[2008/07/19 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: as a personal vendetta on roses behalf
[2008/07/19 11:38] Rose Springvale blinks
[2008/07/19 11:38] You: oopsie – personal comments
[2008/07/19 11:38] You: please stop
[2008/07/19 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: he has a lot to do in the week, things he could have done in six months
[2008/07/19 11:38] You: “or else” 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:38] ThePrincess Parisi: this is about his perfomance
[2008/07/19 11:38] You: not the part where you mentioned vendettas 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:38] Flyingroc Chung: gwyn, every act of the RA is legislation that the SC can repeal.
[2008/07/19 11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but I still claim that the SC cannot approve bills that don’t exist any more 🙂 By doing so, they’d be doing legislative action, which they are not allowed to. However, they can certainly suspend things like the reprimand…
[2008/07/19 11:39] Flyingroc Chung: including, our actions today
[2008/07/19 11:39] You: Gywn you can take that argument to the SC and have fun at leisure with it — smile, shrug — I have no idea at the moment
[2008/07/19 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: well he is the one who posted lies about me personally on the forum
[2008/07/19 11:39] Moon Adamant: are we transcripting?
[2008/07/19 11:39] ThePrincess Parisi: so .. how is that addressed .. i sure hope so moon
[2008/07/19 11:39] You: always, Moon 🙂 until adjoruned
[2008/07/19 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I most certainly will enjoy that.
[2008/07/19 11:39] You: Siiigh I know you will
[2008/07/19 11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
[2008/07/19 11:39] You: 🙁 CDS signal to noise ratio
[2008/07/19 11:39] You: ladies and gentlemen
[2008/07/19 11:40] You: thanks for your patience. I believe we are done with this agenda item
[2008/07/19 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, in the past, the RA used this quite often — ie. repealing its own laws before the SC veto’ed them — so there is a strong precedent.
[2008/07/19 11:40] Moon Adamant: brb
—-
[2008/07/19 11:40] MT Lundquist: i move that the chancellor be requested to complete ALL required actions by next week and that the RA will review that performance next week
[2008/07/19 11:40] You: I believe that as we are 80 minutes over our usual time, we should adjourn soon ..
[2008/07/19 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: second
[2008/07/19 11:40] You: but MT raised a valid request
[2008/07/19 11:40] You: MT, can we have a list, or a reference to one?
[2008/07/19 11:40] Flyingroc Chung: There may be an argument to make that once the RA votes to remove a person, it cannot take the vote back.
[2008/07/19 11:40] You: and I will ask alexi to comment once you have one
[2008/07/19 11:40] ThePrincess Parisi: i agree FR
[2008/07/19 11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: He certainly does. Mmmh. We should first list what those required actions are.
[2008/07/19 11:41] You: FR 🙂 That’s for the SC now I think
[2008/07/19 11:41] MT Lundquist listens to FR
[2008/07/19 11:41] Flyingroc Chung: but the SC should decide that.
[2008/07/19 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: well another bill was passed unanimously early in the term that affects the next two weeks
[2008/07/19 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: and i doublt if our chancellor ieven has a copy
[2008/07/19 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: he has not made one move toward implementing that either
[2008/07/19 11:41] You: And I encourage you to appeal it there if there’s somewhere to go with it, because for the life of me I do not see how it becomes an RA action item
[2008/07/19 11:41] You: …
[2008/07/19 11:41] You: ahem 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:41] ThePrincess Parisi: and a budget was approved for that too
[2008/07/19 11:41] MT Lundquist: i suggest that the chancellor be asked to review ALL the ra transcripts for actions pertaining to him
[2008/07/19 11:42] You: … FR says that one can go to SC. Fine.
[2008/07/19 11:42] You: Let’s do MT’s motion
[2008/07/19 11:42] MT Lundquist: thats where the list will come from to start
[2008/07/19 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: well .. who is doing the bill we passed alexicon
[2008/07/19 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: do you even have it?
[2008/07/19 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: or do we have to call you in to make you do it
[2008/07/19 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: and give you an ultimatium
[2008/07/19 11:42] ThePrincess Parisi: then we get paid back in six months
[2008/07/19 11:43] You: so to restate it, MT – just want to get these spelled out – you move that we instruct the chancellor to finish all actions that he has been validly directed by us to complete, as evidenced by RA transcripts, by next week, and that you plan to ask for his removal if he does not?
[2008/07/19 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, from a procedural point of view, I’m not comfortable in voting for a motion that has no clear list of actions to vote on… so “all that was requested” is too vague for my conscience. On the other hand, certainly it’s the RA’s duty to validate and discuss what the Executive did or didn’t.
[2008/07/19 11:43] You: Gywn you can speak against it after we have it captured, please
[2008/07/19 11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry.
[2008/07/19 11:43] You: MT, how did I do?
[2008/07/19 11:43] Arria Perreault: May I, Jamie?
[2008/07/19 11:43] ThePrincess Parisi: he has bills that affect the inagural that if he hasnt started working on a month ago , he wont get done
[2008/07/19 11:44] You: first MT clarifies motion, then speakers – and I have Gwyn, Arria and Prin
[2008/07/19 11:44] Flyingroc Chung: folks, I need to leave in about 4 minutes.
[2008/07/19 11:44] You: (noted FR, no hard feelings, we’re way over)
[2008/07/19 11:44] MT Lundquist: that he reports back to the ra personally next week on all actions being complete
[2008/07/19 11:44] Arria Perreault: I suggest the next RA to introduce a controlling system for the executif. Currently no such tool is available.
[2008/07/19 11:44] MT Lundquist: if they are not the RA decides its course of action
[2008/07/19 11:44] ThePrincess Parisi: good do a bill arria
[2008/07/19 11:44] You: Arria 🙂 out of order, sorry, wait please all
[2008/07/19 11:44] MT Lundquist: which could of course include removal if thats appropriate
[2008/07/19 11:45] You: OK – I think that’s a sufficient statement of the motion
[2008/07/19 11:45] You: and I assume prin’s second applies to the slightly corrected version
[2008/07/19 11:45] You: so
[2008/07/19 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: yes thats fine.
[2008/07/19 11:45] You: PLEASE keep it to TWO LINES OF TEXT EACH
[2008/07/19 11:45] You: Gwyn?
[2008/07/19 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: yes that
[2008/07/19 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: is fine
[2008/07/19 11:45] ThePrincess Parisi: two
[2008/07/19 11:45] You: (then Arria, Prin, me)
[2008/07/19 11:46] Jamie Palisades waits – but not long as FR has to GO
[2008/07/19 11:46] You: OK Gwyn’s still writing, let’s go to Arria while we wait?
[2008/07/19 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So if I understand correctly, the Chancellor will be requested to do a status report: list all things that he could find on the RA transcripts that were requested of him, and, one by one, tell the RA if they were completed or not, and why not. Is that the idea of this motion?
[2008/07/19 11:46] You: oops 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:46] MT Lundquist: that they are completed
[2008/07/19 11:46] You: MT? Is Gwyn’s summary essentially correct?
[2008/07/19 11:46] MT Lundquist: that the job is done
[2008/07/19 11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Isn’t this the case: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1964#p11589
[2008/07/19 11:47] You: kk sounds like a yes
[2008/07/19 11:47] ThePrincess Parisi: or just let the citizens vote and let them worry about the fricken chancellor, it should be that way anyhow
[2008/07/19 11:47] Moon Adamant: was this ever requested from another chancellor before?
[2008/07/19 11:47] You: um gywn – I wil not read any forum pages today before adjounrment, sorry, outa time 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:47] You: Moon you are out of order
[2008/07/19 11:47] You: Arria do you wish to spesk BRIEFLY?
[2008/07/19 11:47] Moon Adamant: apologies
[2008/07/19 11:47] MT Lundquist: did another chancellor not do their job?
[2008/07/19 11:47] You: (hush please)
[2008/07/19 11:47] ThePrincess Parisi: u yes
[2008/07/19 11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, sorry. To be brief: that’s a list of all things the Chancellor did this term.
[2008/07/19 11:47] You: sigh
[2008/07/19 11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: so
[2008/07/19 11:48] You: I assume no comments from Arria.
[2008/07/19 11:48] Flyingroc Chung: sorry folks
[2008/07/19 11:48] Flyingroc Chung: time flies like an arrow
[2008/07/19 11:48] ThePrincess Parisi: bye FR monkey hugs
[2008/07/19 11:48] Rose Springvale: thanks frc!
[2008/07/19 11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye, FR 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:48] Flyingroc Chung: and so do chimps
[2008/07/19 11:48] You: See ya FR – any take on this you want to share? Thanks for staying for overtime
[2008/07/19 11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/19 11:48] Alexicon Kurka: bye frc
[2008/07/19 11:48] You: OK then 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:49] You: Here’s my take in two lines. I think the spirit of this motion is good, but it’s coming too fast for me to evaluate carefully, so I will abstain.
[2008/07/19 11:49] You: Any other RA member comments?
[2008/07/19 11:49] You: can we vote?
[2008/07/19 11:49] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/19 11:49] You: Members please state their vote on MT’s motion. I abstain.
[2008/07/19 11:50] You: I need votes from Gwyn, Prin, Sonja
[2008/07/19 11:50] ThePrincess Parisi: aye
[2008/07/19 11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. I have some qualms myself: on one hand, getting a status report from the Chancellor on his job is a good idea. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1964#p11589 is perhaps just what we want. On the other hand, I don’t want more witch hunting. So I abstain.
[2008/07/19 11:50] ThePrincess Parisi: pansies
[2008/07/19 11:50] Sonja Strom: abstain
[2008/07/19 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: pass
[2008/07/19 11:51] You: well
[2008/07/19 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: it passes then
[2008/07/19 11:51] You: that’s a failure. 2-0-3
[2008/07/19 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: why
[2008/07/19 11:51] MT Lundquist: 2 for 3 abstain
[2008/07/19 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: we have to have a majority
[2008/07/19 11:51] MT Lundquist: thats 2 to 0
[2008/07/19 11:51] You: acts need a simple maority, defined as >50% of those voting
[2008/07/19 11:51] ThePrincess Parisi: does anyone have seven day votes
[2008/07/19 11:51] MT Lundquist: sounds like a pass to me
[2008/07/19 11:52] You: Supreme Empress of All Branches Gwyn? Feel free to comment 🙂 I rule it fails
[2008/07/19 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh lol
[2008/07/19 11:52] You: and my ruling can be appealed 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:52] You: but I think a 2-0-3 vote in a room with 5 RA members is a fail, technically
[2008/07/19 11:52] MT Lundquist: #ok so we have Jamie, sonja and gwyn not interested in the chancellors performance
[2008/07/19 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 out of 5 votes is not a majority in my book…
[2008/07/19 11:52] MT Lundquist: following a major debate on his performance
[2008/07/19 11:52] You: I didn’t see that one coming
[2008/07/19 11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT, we have it here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1964#p11589
[2008/07/19 11:52] MT Lundquist: that is bizare
[2008/07/19 11:52] You: MT, no, we have (a) reprimaded him and (b) indicated a willignness to discuss it next week but that this was premature
[2008/07/19 11:53] MT Lundquist: and speaks perhaps to the motivations behind this whole debate
[2008/07/19 11:53] You: and I suggest we adjourn for the day, at, what, hour 3
[2008/07/19 11:53] ThePrincess Parisi: for ppl to like them
[2008/07/19 11:53] Rose Springvale: polls are closed in 4 minutes
[2008/07/19 11:53] You: and I also note that the CDS polls are about to close 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:53] You: thx rose
[2008/07/19 11:53] Rose Springvale: 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:53] ThePrincess Parisi: whooot
[2008/07/19 11:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second the adjournment
[2008/07/19 11:53] MT Lundquist: its still intersting that three of us didnt find it necesary to expect a report on performance
[2008/07/19 11:53] Rose Springvale: i have an announcement
[2008/07/19 11:54] You: Thank you all for significant attempts to handle these difficult issues with some degree of politeness
[2008/07/19 11:54] You: we are adjourned. Informal announcements? go for it
—-
[2008/07/19 11:55] Sonja Strom: What I would like to say is in response to a request made earlier by Moon.
[2008/07/19 11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MT, I feel that viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1964#p11589 was a reasonable attempt at describing the Exec’s performance this term, and at this point, I’m not sure we need more. That’s why I abstained.
[2008/07/19 11:55] ThePrincess Parisi: when are the results going to be given on the election
[2008/07/19 11:55] Rose Springvale: Metanomics has advised that they will be highlighint CN as an event partner tomorrow
[2008/07/19 11:55] ThePrincess Parisi: I’M GONNA BE A MONKEY!!!
[2008/07/19 11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh wow Rose!!!
[2008/07/19 11:55] MT Lundquist: we need to know that the job is complete next week
[2008/07/19 11:55] Sonja Strom: really Rose? That’s GREAT!
[2008/07/19 11:55] Rose Springvale: they want to include congratulations to our new RA
[2008/07/19 11:55] Justice Soothsayer: Great news!
[2008/07/19 11:55] MT Lundquist: and we should have asked for that gwyn
[2008/07/19 11:55] ThePrincess Parisi: neat!
[2008/07/19 11:55] Brian Livingston: Cool
[2008/07/19 11:55] Rose Springvale: so will be forwarding that info to them, and also
[2008/07/19 11:55] MT Lundquist: the RA just failed in its duty in my oppion
[2008/07/19 11:55] Rose Springvale: they will plug the new sim for us
[2008/07/19 11:55] MT Lundquist: opinion
[2008/07/19 11:55] Rose Springvale: in case anyone is interested in new positive things 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:56] Sonja Strom: Earlier Moon said:
[2008/07/19 11:56] Sonja Strom: [11:32] Moon Adamant: i actually was going to ask only, that after the vote, which was very clear, that the good names of the Executive branch would be cleared by a formal re-instament.
[2008/07/19 11:56] Alexicon Kurka: great news Rose
[2008/07/19 11:56] Sonja Strom: I feel that since our original decision has been reconsidered and withdrawn before it came into effect, a formal reinstatement would be a redundant and inaccurate action.
[2008/07/19 11:56] Vote SL: Your password will be sent via IM in a moment and will appear in your chat window. Please wait.
[2008/07/19 11:56] Vote SL: Jamie Palisades, your CDS voting password is: **** Please go to http://**** to vote.
[2008/07/19 11:56] Moon Adamant: yes Sonja
[2008/07/19 11:56] Vote SL owned by Jon Seattle gave you ‘I Voted Button’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/58/196/43 ).
[2008/07/19 11:56] Moon Adamant: but since the LRA will make a public post and inform the SC
[2008/07/19 11:56] Moon Adamant: i think that’s quite enough
[2008/07/19 11:56] Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
[2008/07/19 11:57] Moon Adamant: what i don’t think it would be appropriate would be to reinstate Alex and his team silently
[2008/07/19 11:57] Sonja Strom: sure
[2008/07/19 11:57] Alexicon Kurka: when will the results of the election be known?
[2008/07/19 11:58] Brian Livingston: The SC needs to validate the results before the announcement, correct?
[2008/07/19 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas, that’s for the SC to say, Alex 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:58] ThePrincess Parisi: yes
[2008/07/19 11:58] You: Sorry, all – I had to go vote 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: JAMIE!
[2008/07/19 11:58] Arria Perreault: yes
[2008/07/19 11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2008/07/19 11:58] Brian Livingston: Slacker
[2008/07/19 11:58] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/07/19 11:59] Rose Springvale: well done jamie!
[2008/07/19 11:59] Moon Adamant: ok, thank you all for a good session
[2008/07/19 11:59] You: Gwynie. I hold factions responsible for their RA members. I wanted to see how this meeting went first. 🙂
[2008/07/19 11:59] Brian Livingston: I finally pulled the trigger and voted last night
[2008/07/19 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: k jamie i want you to look at my butt
[2008/07/19 11:59] Rose Springvale: you gave it every moment possible for input
[2008/07/19 11:59] Moon Adamant: and have fun everyone
[2008/07/19 11:59] Alexicon Kurka: yes me too, thanks everybody that kept an open eye and ear
[2008/07/19 11:59] ThePrincess Parisi: can we do it here
[2008/07/19 11:59] Moon Adamant waves
[2008/07/19 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: i dont wnna offeceify anyone
[2008/07/19 12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
[2008/07/19 12:00] You: that’s a hell of a helmet Prin – you guys sell that?
[2008/07/19 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: yes its a man’s
[2008/07/19 12:00] MT Lundquist: yes have one jamie
[2008/07/19 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: i have a thing on my butt i want you to see jamie
[2008/07/19 12:00] ThePrincess Parisi: tell me when you are cammed and ill drop my pants fast
[2008/07/19 12:01] You: oh dear
[end]
RA Meeting: July 26, 2008
1a. Get agreements to record session.
1b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes.
1c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
1d. Check for comments on prior posted minutes.
1e. n/a
1f. Consent agenda: Any ministerial items for approval without debate? (None.)
see: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1927
3. Election rule questions. (15 mins: 10h30 – 10h45)
4. Other?
5. Open Discussion (15 mins.: 10h45-11h00)
Adjournment: 11h00
Transcript of 26 July 2008 Representative Assembly Meeting
conducted at the Neufreistadt Rathaus
Recorded by Jamie Palisades (= “You”, below)
Topic separators “—-” inserted to separate agenda items (or at least topical divisions)
====
[2008/07/26 9:55] Connecting to in-world Voice Chat…
[2008/07/26 9:55] Connected
[2008/07/26 9:56] You: hey there.
[2008/07/26 9:56] Flyingroc Chung: morning
[2008/07/26 9:56] You: Doing some IMs here to send for people 🙂 momentito
[2008/07/26 9:56] Brian Livingston: Hi all
[2008/07/26 9:58] You: brb
[2008/07/26 10:02] You: alrighty
[2008/07/26 10:02] You: Lost Roc, did me?
[2008/07/26 10:02] You: we
[2008/07/26 10:03] Brian Livingston: Seems so
[2008/07/26 10:03] Brian Livingston: G’morning MT
[2008/07/26 10:03] MT Lundquist: morning
[2008/07/26 10:03] Brian Livingston: Or afternoon for you, no?
[2008/07/26 10:03] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/26 10:04] You: Well, let me note a few things informally
[2008/07/26 10:05] You: Flying Roc and Sonja were inworld a bit ago
[2008/07/26 10:05] MT Lundquist: frs here
[2008/07/26 10:05] ChimpAO: Could not find animation ‘monkeyfly1’.
[2008/07/26 10:05] You: so it’s probably more crashes than boycotts 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:06] Flyingroc Chung: kernel panic 🙁
[2008/07/26 10:06] Brian Livingston: Any word from the CSDF folks?
[2008/07/26 10:06] MT Lundquist: hi fr
[2008/07/26 10:06] Flyingroc Chung: hi
[2008/07/26 10:06] Brian Livingston: WB Fr
[2008/07/26 10:06] You: hm – I get that a lot too – and not on a slow PC, Roc
[2008/07/26 10:06] Brian Livingston: Aaah, i was having that all last week until I realizeda stick of RAM died on me :/
[2008/07/26 10:06] You: I expect Sonja in a sec, as I talked to her at 930
[2008/07/26 10:07] Flyingroc Chung: well
[2008/07/26 10:07] Brian Livingston: I ran Memtest and realized one of my new sticks of ram is prettty much dead 🙁
[2008/07/26 10:07] You: oh? relates to memory size? hm
[2008/07/26 10:07] Flyingroc Chung: it only happens on SL on osx
[2008/07/26 10:07] Brian Livingston: Aaah, ok then.
[2008/07/26 10:07] Flyingroc Chung: I’m guessing bad graphics driver
[2008/07/26 10:07] Flyingroc Chung: or overheating
[2008/07/26 10:07] You: I do not expect Gwyn today, she may be out. Beathan, well, he’s not been seen much. And what about Prin, MT?
[2008/07/26 10:08] MT Lundquist: prrins out as i said before in iM earlier
[2008/07/26 10:08] You: kk
[2008/07/26 10:09] You: When it’s 10 after the hour if we are not quorate I suggest wr gracefully accede to fate 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:09] You: but thanks for coming
[2008/07/26 10:09] Sonja Strom: hi Rose
[2008/07/26 10:09] MT Lundquist: sonjas on the way
[2008/07/26 10:09] You: Hi Rose
[2008/07/26 10:09] MT Lundquist: shes on radar
[2008/07/26 10:09] MT Lundquist: at 13
[2008/07/26 10:09] You: Ah there
[2008/07/26 10:09] Sonja Strom: Hi everybody
[2008/07/26 10:09] You: Hello Sonja
[2008/07/26 10:09] MT Lundquist: hi sonja
[2008/07/26 10:10] Sonja Strom: Sorry I’m late, technical difficulties
[2008/07/26 10:10] You: let’s run through the things we need to do, then, get this over expeditiously 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:10] You: agenda here: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1999&p=11717#p11717
[2008/07/26 10:10] You: let’s call to order
—-
[2008/07/26 10:10] You: 1a
[2008/07/26 10:10] You: Please assent, etc. I assent
[2008/07/26 10:10] MT Lundquist: i assent
[2008/07/26 10:10] Sonja Strom: I assent
[2008/07/26 10:11] Brian Livingston: I assent
—-
[2008/07/26 10:11] You: 1d – if you see problems with posted transcripts tell me — ha ha and do it before 2 August, or you’ll have to tell Justice, my successor as LRA
[2008/07/26 10:11] Flyingroc Chung: I assent
—-
[2008/07/26 10:11] You: 1b any changes to agenda?
[2008/07/26 10:11] Flyingroc Chung: sorry, had to wade through some UAC dialog boxes
[2008/07/26 10:12] Flyingroc Chung: no changes from me
[2008/07/26 10:12] MT Lundquist: fine
[2008/07/26 10:12] You: OK
—-
[2008/07/26 10:13] You: 1c – Brian – if we do code reorg I assume you weill speak, I know of no others
[2008/07/26 10:13] Brian Livingston: I would be willing to address the RA if it so pleases them 🙂
—-
[2008/07/26 10:13] You: 1e is future meetings 🙂 not our problem
[2008/07/26 10:13] You: I note Justice is polling the incoming RA, looking at maybe next Saturday or Sunday FYI as first mtg
—-
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: 1f
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: consent
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: Have nothing …?
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: ok then
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: we have three items
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: Code reorg #2
[2008/07/26 10:14] You: Any further election rule issues #3
[2008/07/26 10:14] Sonja Strom: lol Rose
[2008/07/26 10:14] Rose Springvale: what now? lol
[2008/07/26 10:15] You: and “anything else” #4
[2008/07/26 10:15] Rose Springvale: consent 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:15] Sonja Strom: Hi Cindy
[2008/07/26 10:15] MT Lundquist: rose
[2008/07/26 10:15] MT Lundquist: cindy
[2008/07/26 10:15] Rose Springvale: hi 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:15] Cindy Ecksol: hi all. yes, I consent
[2008/07/26 10:15] Rose Springvale: sorry, slow rez day 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:16] You: I will take those as transcript assents from the Honorable Guild Events Tag Team
—-
[2008/07/26 10:16] You: ok #2 then 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:16] You: we have for some time had in front of us, as I introduced about 6 weeks ago, the final work of the Code Reorganization Commission
[2008/07/26 10:16] You: link in the agenda – and it’s here:
[2008/07/26 10:17] You: /viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1927
[2008/07/26 10:17] Sonja Strom: Hi Jon
[2008/07/26 10:17] Flyingroc Chung: hi jon
[2008/07/26 10:17] Delia Lake: hi Joh
[2008/07/26 10:17] Stormy: purr…
[2008/07/26 10:17] Brian Livingston: (I have it in notecard form as well for anyone who wants it)
[2008/07/26 10:17] Jon Seattle: Hi Sonja, FR, Delia 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:17] You: Our last three or four meetings have been … I think the phrase is “overtaken by events”
[2008/07/26 10:17] Stormy: meeow!
[2008/07/26 10:17] You: (please assent Jon, and hi)
[2008/07/26 10:18] Jon Seattle: Hi Jamie, I assent
[2008/07/26 10:18] Jon Seattle: 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:18] You: Now, I was plannng to move that we pass this — to get the rest of the weeds pulled from our dilapidated Code as a housekeeping matter
[2008/07/26 10:18] You: and I also confirm that I independently spot checked Brian’s great, diligent work on this
[2008/07/26 10:19] You: chasing down all sorts of hoary old decaying issues and bits of bills
[2008/07/26 10:19] You: so the right Q for us now is whether to simply recommend it to the next RA (if that is your wish)
[2008/07/26 10:19] You: or actually enact it, mindful that the next RA can repeal/modify it
[2008/07/26 10:20] You: and that we’re in the lame duck period, see my comments in the posted agenda
[2008/07/26 10:20] You: Let me ask Brian, who was on the RA when this started (this time around) to say a few words about what we have here and how we might proceed, as it’s his work
[2008/07/26 10:21] Brian Livingston: Thank you to the R.A. for allowing me to speak on this briefly 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:22] Brian Livingston: The bill you have in front of you is one that has been in progress for going on two terms, with the assistanceo f multiple factions and individuals to bring it to the point we are today.
[2008/07/26 10:22] Brian Livingston: Currently, our set of code resides in one list, with little differentiation between code that is still active and code that has served its useful purpose, and even code that has been superceded or repealed
[2008/07/26 10:23] Brian Livingston: The resulting situation is that therei a lot of confusion and wasted time spent on the part of anyone who is attemptign to reserach and adhere to our codes
[2008/07/26 10:24] Rose Springvale applauds
[2008/07/26 10:24] Brian Livingston: This bill simplifies things by a) identifying bills that are no longer relevent and b) classifying them as such and removing them from our active roster of legislation to a second list of historic code.
[2008/07/26 10:25] Brian Livingston: This will streamline the process of researching our legislation while maintaining our rich historical past that can be told throuhg the legislation of prior Represenatative Assemblies.
[2008/07/26 10:26] Brian Livingston: I am eager to address any questions or concerns this esteemed R.A. may have on this bill and would strongly encourage passing this legislation so that we can leave our body of code in much better shape for the incoming R.A. and our community as a whole. Thank you.
[2008/07/26 10:27] Jamie Palisades smiles: Brian, let me say thanks again on behalf of CDS for a long detailed task — at least we can make it not a thankless one
[2008/07/26 10:27] Sonja Strom applauds
[2008/07/26 10:27] Jon Seattle: yay 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:27] MT Lundquist: claps
[2008/07/26 10:27] Brian Livingston: It was my pleasure Sir
[2008/07/26 10:27] You: let me ask first for questions for Brian – then let’s talk about whether there are any obstacles to adopting it
[2008/07/26 10:28] Flyingroc Chung: I think it’s gonna be really useful
[2008/07/26 10:28] Sonja Strom: I think so too, as the way the laws are organised now they are really confusing.
[2008/07/26 10:29] Sonja Strom: I thank Brian very much for this work.
[2008/07/26 10:30] You: hearing gratitude but no questions … 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:30] You: It seems to me that, if we adopt this today, we permit the new RA to get started on the right foot — And facilitate’s Arria’s website work (under way right now) right now to move all laws to the new portal — but without really prejudicing them, as they can always repeal or modify it.
[2008/07/26 10:31] You: But do we have any issues of lame duckness here? 🙂 I know some say it’s “bad form” for us to act after the elections start. That does not trouble me — on a noncontroversial issue, to me that sounds less like a legal assessment, and more like a “Peter Pan” quote — but how do others feel about enacting today?
[2008/07/26 10:31] MT Lundquist: i’m happy to
[2008/07/26 10:31] MT Lundquist: were are still the government today
[2008/07/26 10:32] Flyingroc Chung: it’s pretty uncontroversial, I think
[2008/07/26 10:32] You: I’d welcome hearing from anyone who think’s that this bit of housekeeping is inappropriate, though. Speak up, if so 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:32] Rose Springvale raises hand
[2008/07/26 10:33] You: Yes Rose?
[2008/07/26 10:33] Rose Springvale: Personally i think enacting this legislation is in good form for this RA … and i think that the issues of process you’ve all dealt with make it almost your legacy
[2008/07/26 10:34] You: 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:34] Rose Springvale: i don’t think anyone likes wading through the CDS code
[2008/07/26 10:34] Jamie Palisades mutters … amen
[2008/07/26 10:34] Brian Livingston: It’s actually sorta fascinating, if you ever get the time :p
[2008/07/26 10:34] Rose Springvale: smile
[2008/07/26 10:34] Jon Seattle: 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:34] Brian Livingston pipes down
[2008/07/26 10:34] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:34] Rose Springvale: says the bunny in camo…
[2008/07/26 10:34] You: well then – not seeing any other comments …
[2008/07/26 10:35] You: .. then it is my pleasure to move to adopt Brian’s bill as posted.
[2008/07/26 10:35] MT Lundquist: second
[2008/07/26 10:35] Sonja Strom: aye
[2008/07/26 10:35] MT Lundquist: aye
[2008/07/26 10:35] Flyingroc Chung: aye
[2008/07/26 10:35] You: ha ha Sonja has a tennis match to get to!
[2008/07/26 10:35] You: And I vote aye.
[2008/07/26 10:35] You: Adopted 4-0-0. And thank you again, Brian.
[2008/07/26 10:35] MT Lundquist: thanks brian
[2008/07/26 10:36] Rose Springvale: hi delia
[2008/07/26 10:36] You: FYI I am chatting with Arria and Justice and this will get into the right hands 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:36] Brian Livingston: Thank you again to the R.A. for taking the time to consider this bill 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:36] Delia Lake: hi everyone
[2008/07/26 10:36] Brian Livingston waves to Delia
[2008/07/26 10:36] MT Lundquist: hi delia
[2008/07/26 10:36] Jon Seattle: Hi Delia 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:36] Flyingroc Chung: hey delia
[2008/07/26 10:36] You: and whoever takes over as RA Archivist will shower you with flowers, Bri
[2008/07/26 10:36] Sonja Strom: hi Delia
[2008/07/26 10:37] You: that’s it for item 2
[2008/07/26 10:37] Brian Livingston loves flowers… sooo tasty
[2008/07/26 10:37] You: (reminding, CDS commission on corporate structure at 11 here)
[2008/07/26 10:37] You: well flowers and carrots, then
—-
[2008/07/26 10:37] You: 3
[2008/07/26 10:37] Cindy Ecksol wishes brian would keep his relatives out of my garden
[2008/07/26 10:37] You: I think we have at least one proposed action on the election rules? Or not?
[2008/07/26 10:37] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/26 10:38] Rose Springvale wishes brian would be a cute animal again cause he’s scary like that
[2008/07/26 10:38] You: can you give us the background MT?
[2008/07/26 10:38] MT Lundquist: yes
[2008/07/26 10:38] Delia Lake fumbles around for a homegrown carrot…
[2008/07/26 10:38] MT Lundquist: i’m concerned that the election count resulted in two different results
[2008/07/26 10:39] MT Lundquist: this issue was then considered after the fact by the SC in full knowledge of the results
[2008/07/26 10:39] MT Lundquist: i have posted the main points here
[2008/07/26 10:39] MT Lundquist: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1992
[2008/07/26 10:39] MT Lundquist: that includes the discussion on this
[2008/07/26 10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all!
[2008/07/26 10:39] MT Lundquist: the SC didnt listen to my appeal
[2008/07/26 10:40] Jon Seattle: Yay Gwyn! 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:40] MT Lundquist: in fact had considered it before i arrived to present it
[2008/07/26 10:40] MT Lundquist: which seems in appropriate
[2008/07/26 10:40] MT Lundquist: so i bought it here
[2008/07/26 10:40] MT Lundquist: I know its unlikely to succeed
[2008/07/26 10:40] You: (Hi Gwyn, welcome, assent when you get a change pls)
[2008/07/26 10:40] MT Lundquist: turkeys voting for christmas and all that
[2008/07/26 10:40] MT Lundquist: but thought it of significance
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: and importnace
[2008/07/26 10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I assent to be recorded!)
[2008/07/26 10:41] Flyingroc Chung: sorry, bluescreened
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: especially as the SC seemed confused
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: to quote cindy
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: For a short time even Claude was confused by this.
[2008/07/26 10:41] Cindy Ecksol raises had
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: so the bill is to
[2008/07/26 10:41] Cindy Ecksol raises hand….
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: void the election
[2008/07/26 10:41] You: let’s let MT finish
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: set the count method here
[2008/07/26 10:41] MT Lundquist: rerun the election
[2008/07/26 10:42] MT Lundquist: ty
[2008/07/26 10:42] MT Lundquist: hi gwyn
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi MT!)
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi MT!)
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi MT!)
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi MT!)
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[2008/07/26 10:42] You: ooo
[2008/07/26 10:42] Flyingroc Chung: uh oh
[2008/07/26 10:42] MT Lundquist: bit of an echo in here
[2008/07/26 10:42] MT Lundquist: 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wireless trouble 😛
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wireless trouble 😛
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wireless trouble 😛
[2008/07/26 10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wireless trouble 😛
[2008/07/26 10:42] Brian Livingston giggles
[2008/07/26 10:42] You: forget our multiple personality meds did me?
[2008/07/26 10:42] Flyingroc Chung: wow, that’s worse than what I had
[2008/07/26 10:43] MT Lundquist: lol
[2008/07/26 10:43] You: ahem – more Xanax for Ms Llewelyn please
[2008/07/26 10:43] Brian Livingston: So that’s how she wirtes all those paragraphs in sucha short time… Repetition
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2008/07/26 10:43] You: MT 🙂 please continue
[2008/07/26 10:43] Rose Springvale: lol
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: o my, I better remain silent today…
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: o my, I better remain silent today…
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: o my, I better remain silent today…
[2008/07/26 10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: o my, I better remain silent today…
[2008/07/26 10:43] Cindy Ecksol: oh my!!
[2008/07/26 10:43] MT Lundquist: i’ve finished
[2008/07/26 10:43] MT Lundquist: do you get to vote many times 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:43] Jamie Palisades rolls on the floor momentarily – like two of you wasn;t enough
[2008/07/26 10:44] You: Done with intro MT?
[2008/07/26 10:44] MT Lundquist: yes ty
[2008/07/26 10:44] You: OK then let me get two things
[2008/07/26 10:45] You: we have Cindy and maybe others who wish to speak so we will run a queue
[2008/07/26 10:45] You: but MT, where’s that URI? You actually have a posted bill text, I think
[2008/07/26 10:45] MT Lundquist: ok yes i will get that to
[2008/07/26 10:45] MT Lundquist: just a sec
[2008/07/26 10:45] You: (and then we ask for a second – and then we get into the merits – and then …
[2008/07/26 10:46] You: … maybe we need to talk about whether the RA can in fact void an election? I just haven’t thought that one through.)
[2008/07/26 10:46] MT Lundquist: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1993
[2008/07/26 10:46] You: let’s get the URI so people can .. ah thx
[2008/07/26 10:46] Jamie Palisades grabs the webpage …
[2008/07/26 10:47] You: K
[2008/07/26 10:47] You: good, got it. Is there a second to MT’s motion?
[2008/07/26 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn fears to say anything
[2008/07/26 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn fears to say anything
[2008/07/26 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn fears to say anything
[2008/07/26 10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn fears to say anything
[2008/07/26 10:48] You: ha ha well first we need a second or there’s nothing (actionwise) to discuss
[2008/07/26 10:49] Brian Livingston wonders if Gwyn can IM to another person and if they can transmit to the main chat…
[2008/07/26 10:49] You: 10h48 SLT on my screen — I will wait until 10h50 for a second, then
[2008/07/26 10:49] You: (Oo good idea Brian – Gwynnie always needed a press secretary anyway)
[2008/07/26 10:50] Rose Springvale: she’s spamming in im too lol
[2008/07/26 10:50] Brian Livingston: Well, worth a try :p
[2008/07/26 10:50] You: (Hey I’m out of work in a week 😀 I could be your spokesmodel)
[2008/07/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/26 10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[2008/07/26 10:50] You: (Do I get a cool costume like The Metatron?)
[2008/07/26 10:50] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[2008/07/26 10:50] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[2008/07/26 10:50] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[2008/07/26 10:50] Object: Hello, Avatar!
[2008/07/26 10:50] Rose Springvale: rofl
[2008/07/26 10:50] Cindy Ecksol: ol!
[2008/07/26 10:50] Cindy Ecksol: lol!!!
[2008/07/26 10:51] Rose Springvale: looks forward to the transcript of this meeting!
[2008/07/26 10:51] Sonja Strom: hello
[2008/07/26 10:51] Sonja Strom: hello, Object
[2008/07/26 10:51] Cindy Ecksol imagines gwyn being brief in everything she says…..
[2008/07/26 10:51] Rose Springvale imagines hell freezing over…
[2008/07/26 10:52] You: Ladies and gentlemen, the Almighty has shown favor to us and blessed our endeavors by rewarding us with a minor miracle, here at our last RA meeting.
[2008/07/26 10:52] Sonja Strom: lol
[2008/07/26 10:52] You: A voiceless Gwyn.
[2008/07/26 10:52] Cindy Ecksol didn’t realize she was showing up for a religious experience in SL today!
[2008/07/26 10:52] Jon Seattle: poor Gwyn
[2008/07/26 10:52] You: Now, if we just get a polite Prin and a humble Jamie … well.. hmm .. that would be proof of the apocalypse.
[2008/07/26 10:53] Brian Livingston: We just had a flying Chimp… that’s gotta be worth something
[2008/07/26 10:53] Flyingroc Chung: anyone notice how windows does not show the blue screen anymore?
[2008/07/26 10:53] You: But in all seriousness, we’re sorry for Gwyneth’s comm issues, must be very annoying.
[2008/07/26 10:53] Jon Seattle: wb Gwyn 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:53] Delia Lake: and a talking rabbit?
[2008/07/26 10:53] Flyingroc Chung: what did I miss?
[2008/07/26 10:54] You: OK, guys, I am going to say motion dies for lack of second.
[2008/07/26 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not much, FR, except my constant echo (very, very bad wireless)
[2008/07/26 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not much, FR, except my constant echo (very, very bad wireless)
[2008/07/26 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not much, FR, except my constant echo (very, very bad wireless)
[2008/07/26 10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not much, FR, except my constant echo (very, very bad wireless)
[2008/07/26 10:54] You: Um – talking rabbits and the apocalypse, that’s about it FGR
[2008/07/26 10:54] MT Lundquist: ok pretty much as i expected
[2008/07/26 10:54] MT Lundquist: turkeys and christmas as i said
[2008/07/26 10:54] You: May I just ask, before we leave this
[2008/07/26 10:55] MT Lundquist: well afraid I have to leave now
[2008/07/26 10:55] Cindy Ecksol: or perhaps confusion on your part that the rest of the RA does not share
[2008/07/26 10:55] MT Lundquist: thanks all for the interesting 6 months
[2008/07/26 10:55] You: ah OK. Thank very much for coming, MT and serving with great reliability throughout your term.
—
[2008/07/26 10:56] You: Ladies and gents, um and ravagers of Cindy’s garden, are there any other topics for today?
[2008/07/26 10:56] You: (Corporate commission here in 5-7 minutes)
[2008/07/26 10:56] Rose Springvale: Thanks to the RA for all your service
[2008/07/26 10:56] Brian Livingston: Indded, thank you to you all 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:56] Delia Lake: yes, i second that
[2008/07/26 10:56] Jon Seattle: Indeed 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:56] You: if not, may I thank you all again — first on behalf of CDS for your service, and second personally for very strong efforts to move us forward and produce, even in high winds
[2008/07/26 10:57] You: I will file my final report on the forums next week, with an inventory of what we’re passing along to the new RA and CDS …
[2008/07/26 10:57] Delia Lake: thank you all for volunteering to govern our community
[2008/07/26 10:57] You: indeed 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:58] Cindy Ecksol wonders if Jon is having a fit back there….
[2008/07/26 10:58] You: and would happily (truly, you have no idea) welcome a suggestion that we adjourn sine die
[2008/07/26 10:58] Delia Lake: and Jamie, thank you very much for leading such an orderly and productive RA term
[2008/07/26 10:58] Cindy Ecksol: yes, big thanks to jamie!
[2008/07/26 10:58] Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[2008/07/26 10:58] Jon Seattle yay!
[2008/07/26 10:58] Jon Seattle: — its the silly poses on this chair 😀
[2008/07/26 10:58] Sonja Strom: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[2008/07/26 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds repeatedly, which is appropriate!
[2008/07/26 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds repeatedly, which is appropriate!
[2008/07/26 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds repeatedly, which is appropriate!
[2008/07/26 10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds repeatedly, which is appropriate!
[2008/07/26 10:59] Rose Springvale: sure it is jon…. 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:59] Jon Seattle: lol
[2008/07/26 10:59] You: thanks very much 🙂 orderly, well, at times …. productive though, with help, thankfully. Cheers all 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:59] You: while Delia is here 🙂
[2008/07/26 10:59] You: *Delia
[2008/07/26 10:59] Sonja Strom: Thank you Jamie, for your great work as LRA.
[2008/07/26 11:00] You: let me mention the informal comments we had a few meetings ago about a possible ecological focus commission – something we might be able to shape and recommend, as individuals, to the incoming RA
[2008/07/26 11:00] Sonja Strom: Thanks to all of the other RA members for helping to keep the community together and functioning.
[2008/07/26 11:00] You: 🙂 thanks Sonja, and everyone
[2008/07/26 11:00] You: We’re adjourned for the term, then 🙂
[2008/07/26 11:00] Flyingroc Chung: yay
[2008/07/26 11:00] Cindy Ecksol: hip hip — -hooray!!!
[2008/07/26 11:00] Rose Springvale: applause
[2008/07/26 11:00] You: opa!
[2008/07/26 11:01] Sonja Strom: applause 🙂
[2008/07/26 11:01] Flyingroc Chung: not quite sure why I signed up for another one, lol
[2008/07/26 11:01] Jon Seattle: See you all and thanks!
[2008/07/26 11:01] You: those who care, what about a 3 minute bio break? or start right in on corporations?
[2008/07/26 11:01] Brian Livingston: 3 minutes break sounds good
[2008/07/26 11:02] Rose Springvale: men ….
[2008/07/26 11:02] Delia Lake: love that anim, FR
[2008/07/26 11:02] You: good. 🙂
[2008/07/26 11:02] Rose Springvale: can we all move to the inner circle now?
[2008/07/26 11:02] Delia Lake: i would certainly be interested in an ecological commission
[2008/07/26 11:02] Rose Springvale: try gwyn 🙂
[2008/07/26 11:02] You: rose no one kept you out 😀
[2008/07/26 11:03] Rose Springvale: matter of courtesy, long standing tradition JP
[2008/07/26 11:03] You: and yes, Delia, let’s you and I and perjhaps Moon or Symo and Bjerkel pursue that
[2008/07/26 11:03] Rose Springvale: and me!
[2008/07/26 11:03] Delia Lake: very good
[2008/07/26 11:03] You: good 🙂
[2008/07/26 11:04] You: a lot of underexplored overlaps between eco awareness, the projects our citizens have today and … what we can do right here in CDS.
[end]