Representative Assembly Minutes & Transcripts
Per Representative Assembly procedures, all meetings are recorded and transcripts posted for public review. The following are the transcripts for R.A. meetings from the 2nd Assembly through the 4th Assembly.
Traditionally, the transcripts and Minutes are also posted to the Representative Assembly Announcement Forum shortly after each meeting.
Object-Name: Neualtenburg notetaker 2.0.1 Meeting on 2006-01-25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 The meeting opened at 15:18 SLT Claude Desmoulins: Let’s get started. Meeting on 2006-02-08 Claude Desmoulins: Let’s get started. Claude Desmoulins: I reminded Eugene, but haven’t heard from him. Claude Desmoulins is in the chair. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I understand that bit about the reserve fund as well: ‘the unexpected remainder’ Meeting on 2006-03-01 Diderot Mirabeau: it looks very good now .. I was just wondering .. do we not expect the proposals to contain a draft map of the terrain and placement of major public buildings for example? Diderot Mirabeau: its really hard to do such estimates without having some idea of demand and f.x. the distribution of other sims … but I imagine we should be able to attract a fair degree of new residents as well considering my own experience on first land .. Claude Desmoulins: I think a citizen needs to be a part of each proposal… Claude Desmoulins: I see a possibility for the west road being a major artery that connects, far into the future, a whole group of sims. (I’m sounding like Ulkika now ) Sudane Erato: hehe… yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: and LOL Claude! Meeting on 2006-03-12 Aliasi Stonebender: what specific language would you use, Kendra? :gasp :: ::droool :: droooool : Meeting on 2006-03-23 Kendra Bancroft: yes of course Claude Desmoulins: I’m very hesitant to email everyone. Although we have the capability. Meeting on 2006-03-30 Meeting on 2006-04-05 Meeting on 2006-04-19 Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I can’t really, in conscience, be *against* amendments. Meeting on 2006-05-03 Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need a separation of the Sc in 3 branches ? judiciary/investigative, prosecution, judgement Claude Desmoulins: However, that can’t happen until… Gwyneth Llewelyn: has to be approved somehow by everybody and every branch and (who knows) every citizen Kendra Bancroft: For the reason I stated in the forums Claude Desmoulins: I think something like removing the casino would still come under RA oversight here… Claude Desmoulins: It makes the VOC not a one shot thing. THe RA could still not force someone on to SC just off , potentially. Gwyneth Llewelyn: For instance Claude Desmoulins: OK. Pelanor Eldrich: It’d be nice, for me, to have the build previously zoned as historic, but I can waive that. Kendra Bancroft: I don’t like it a whit Meeting on 2006-06-164th Representative Assembly
RA Meeting: January 25, 2006
Region: Neualtenburg (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (196, 186, 177)
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should be interesting 😉
Sudane Erato: I turned on the recorder
Aliasi Stonebender: eh, this is just a bit they’re having to do… doesn’t pay as well as the others, but hey, that’s what trhe -multiple switch is for
Claude Desmoulins: Welcome to the first meeting of the fourth representative assembly.
Claude Desmoulins: Since Kendra will be late, we’ll postpone the old business until she arrives.
Claude Desmoulins: First thing is the web site.
Claude Desmoulins: Many thanks to Gwyn and Aliasi for getting a web presence restored after Ulrika’s departure.
Sudane Erato: yes!!!
Dianne Mechanique: yay!
Sudane Erato: and FlyingRoc? too
Claude Desmoulins: I’m working on a MySQL database for citizens and land.
Aliasi Stonebender: like I said, I wasn’t using it for anything, there’ sjust times when having a bit of web space is handy and the bill was cheap, so I kept it up.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And pendari ? she got me the missing images & CSS
Aliasi Stonebender: I also uploaded my spidering to the FTP site, gwyn, in case pendari is missing anything
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* ty 🙂 I noticed it 😉
Claude Desmoulins: What else do we desperately need on the website?
Flyingroc Chung: I dont know if the vendor still works without the website?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’d say, first step is to launch a “call for budgets”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And t works, FR, it only doesn’t do any records.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, this would mean writing down some specs
Flyingroc Chung: plus we need a voting station ready at least before the next elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: set up a budget for it
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: open up for people to propose them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: anonymously or something…
Claude Desmoulins: That’s later on the agenda.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: have a public session and picking a winner based on some criteria.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we have what we need to have for right now?
Sudane Erato: well… I need the land data
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… barely, I’d say 🙁
Sudane Erato: available for new people
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: but I think we have that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: With redundancy as well, hehe
Sudane Erato: how is it updated?
Claude Desmoulins: I’m working on a land database. We can use Flyingrocs static page for the time being. Thanks, Flyingroc.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can ask that to FR… what aliasi and myself copied, was purely a static page.
Sudane Erato: well… the source is my database
Dianne Mechanique: what technology woudl the site use? or does it use now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No tech, Dianne.
Flyingroc Chung: well that page isnt exactly static
Sudane Erato: casuse the new people are signing oon with Rudeen
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, I think FR’s deal is just processing Sudane’s info, all it is, is a matter of automating that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just a static backup.
Dianne Mechanique: plone? SQL?
Dianne Mechanique: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah, ulrika did it all statically.
Claude Desmoulins: I know Ulrika used perl. I’m more of a PHP/MySQL person myself.
Dianne Mechanique: okay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, perl, just for the vendors, etc
Flyingroc Chung: I’m better at php
Aliasi Stonebender: As long as we have something to point people to that’s accurate, I don’t think it matters if we use carrier pigeons.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe. Yes, that’s why we *need* to setup specifications
Dianne Mechanique: php/SQL is pretty much the standard isnt it?
Sudane Erato: hehe… they’d be inefficient 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I think PHP/MySQL qould give us a bigger team of coders and maintainers.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Flyingroc Chung: wudane, in the previous system, when you change that text file, does it automatically reflect on the nburg site?
Claude Desmoulins: or at least potential coders/maintainers.
Sudane Erato: yes… Ulrikas site went out and grabbed it at intervals
Claude Desmoulins: Before people do all kinds of work….
Sudane Erato: fairly often
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, great.
Flyingroc Chung: ah
Flyingroc Chung: mine grabs it every time someone requests the page
Sudane Erato: oh!
Claude Desmoulins: …would someone like to draft an RFP for the website that we could send out to the Gilde.
Sudane Erato: perfect
Sudane Erato: that would be great
Flyingroc Chung: so, it will update as soon as you do, sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be willing to put down a few notes, BUT I’ll have only time for doing that on the weekend. Mind you, I’m biased 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn awaits Pendari
Sudane Erato: well… the idea is to get a decsription of the project
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it seems she has *serious* trouble staying online for more than a few minutes at a time!
Sudane Erato: and then assemble a team
Sudane Erato: with a budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RFP can be pretty technical stuff 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s let Gwyn put together a draft spec and we’ll discuss it at the next meeting.
Sudane Erato: ok
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’d suggest working with Pendari, because I know she does that for a living as well.
Claude Desmoulins: Further website discussion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’d be glad to have more.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *people
Claude Desmoulins: I also do some of it in my real job.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s have you on the team as well 🙂
Sudane Erato: why not circulate an email
Sudane Erato: with the document?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or use Aliasi’s Wiki 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah
Sudane Erato: yes!
Aliasi Stonebender: like I posted
Flyingroc Chung: yay wiki!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be great.
Claude Desmoulins: Great. This means I’ll need an account 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: anyone who wants to register, I can let you get a username… it’s set to require a password to register.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: so, this bit try to remember to edit out of the log
Sudane Erato: do you need to register to read it?
Aliasi Stonebender: the password is “**********”
Aliasi Stonebender: nope
Aliasi Stonebender: you only need to register to edit
Sudane Erato: ok
Sudane Erato: I’ll read for now
Claude Desmoulins: Next…..
Claude Desmoulins: …..A question about our procedures.
Claude Desmoulins: Many municipal governments in RL require multiple “readings” of a bill before it becomes law. Is this a good idea for us?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Multiple readings….
Sudane Erato: we had a set of procedures…. I wrote early on…
Sudane Erato: do they incorporate that?
Claude Desmoulins: I’ve never seen them.
Sudane Erato: ahhh….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I have a notecard called “RA Procedures for Meetings”
Aliasi Stonebender: On the other hand, unlike many RL governments, we can use the forum and email and such to ensure all can see.
Sudane Erato: I’ll have to find them
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah that’s it Gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it’s the approved one….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: email and forum
Sudane Erato: could be a good “reading” format
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve dropped it into the penguin 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: well i am not a part of th eRA
Dianne Mechanique: but isnt a reading in RL
Dianne Mechanique: and actual reading of the document?
Dianne Mechanique: and we dont do that here at all really
Dianne Mechanique: speak it out like
Sudane Erato: no
Sudane Erato: we don’t
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe no. It’s faster to add the notecard on the transaction 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: just a thought
Diderot Mirabeau: excuse me for speaking while not yet a resident .. but I think a reading is when the members get to pass proposals for amendments and these amendments are reviewed to see if they can muster a majority?
Claude Desmoulins: I think Aliasi’s right that the forums handle information dissermination, if we use them.
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: so a rather formal procedure
Dianne Mechanique: i think diderot is right too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well hmm, in a sense we do that all the time, but informally, I’d say.
Dianne Mechanique: opportunities for amendments
Dianne Mechanique: is the practical application
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s leave it unless we have problems.
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, let’s not make things more rigid than we have to.
Claude Desmoulins: Next…. election aftermath. Give me a momen here if you would….
Claude Desmoulins: My sense is that an appearence of conflict of interest was created by having a faction founder also be the single election administrator and the only person who could see ‘under the hood’
Sudane Erato: yes!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: yep.
Aliasi Stonebender: although, to her credit, Ulrika seemed to play it straight, otherwise I don’t think SDF would have been the minority party last go-round. 😉
Claude Desmoulins: But the first question is, does our commitment to not revealing RL identities in essence preclude our investigating ‘irregularitiues’?
Dianne Mechanique: thats a big kettle of fish 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ohhh
Sudane Erato: yes it is!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Walking on thin ice there, Claude!
Flyingroc Chung: you could design voting system
Flyingroc Chung: that is open-source…
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, one weakness of Ulrika’s system is, being web-based, it went by IP.
Flyingroc Chung: thus, open to audit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and everybody could audit the code.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ FR
Aliasi Stonebender: in a SL-based system, you can go by avatar.
Claude Desmoulins: If we do want to investigate ‘irregularities’ some entity must certify and examine election results before declaring winners.
Claude Desmoulins: The SC can do it themselves…..
Dianne Mechanique: well if you go with one avatar one vote
Flyingroc Chung: you want a commission on elections?
Dianne Mechanique: the “irregularities” mostly dissapear
Dianne Mechanique: which has been my position in the past
Aliasi Stonebender: The SC seems to be the most appropriate body for that.
Sudane Erato: thats right… raising the other issues
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Claude Desmoulins: …..or we could have an election commission to which each recognized faction appoints a member.
Dianne Mechanique: the SC is the judicial branch
Claude Desmoulins: Since the SC would decide any dispute, if they’re willing to do election oversight directly, it saves a layer of bureaucracy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: An election comission is a good idea, although I also agree with FR’s suggestion.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And well, hmm
Sudane Erato: could I suugest that we ask for proposal and discuss them in the forums..?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: this is a rather complex topic
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds reasonable 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection?
Sudane Erato: Claude, you could start the thread..
Claude Desmoulins: Will do.
Claude Desmoulins: Next, revenue, budgets etc.
Claude Desmoulins: In my forum post, I presented three possible revenue enhancement models…..
Claude Desmoulins: ….across the board hike in land fees, public/private partnerships with the city getting a revenue cut, or zoning…
Claude Desmoulins: ….the city into more zones to get a more granular land fee system with more than two rates.
Claude Desmoulins: Are there other ideas?
Sudane Erato: I prefer the zoned assessment system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: These are related mostly to land-based models, right?
Sudane Erato: more profitable zones pay higher fees
Flyingroc Chung: do we really need an increase in revenue?
Sudane Erato: not yet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we do, FR. No expansion without more revenue 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: but someday we will
Claude Desmoulins: If we’re going to pay people to build voting systems, web sites, etc.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Sudane Erato: thats true Claude
Dianne Mechanique: we should encourage more volounteer work 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Dianne, we *could*
Claude Desmoulins: That just caused heaps of trouble 🙂
Sudane Erato: I’ve never been a big fan of volunteer work
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But actually this runs contrary to what the RA decided in the past. of course, things could get reverted.
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Dianne Mechanique: just a thought
Flyingroc Chung: I’m a huge fan of volunteer work 😛
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: People may of course volunteer, but they need to set it up in writing.
Dianne Mechanique: some people dont care about being paid so much
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I personally prefer to pay low wages, than no wages at all.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yeah, I mean, I’m doing a little “volunteer” work, as are others, but we’re all explicitly saying so, rather than it being taken for granted.
Claude Desmoulins: So we don’t have a repeat if someone changes their mond.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Dianne Mechanique: best to have formal arrangements
Dianne Mechanique: i agree with Gwyn
Aliasi Stonebender: and that’s it… if someone /wants/ to work for nothing, who are we to stop them?
Flyingroc Chung: I agree also
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, “formal arrangements” is what we’re *good* at 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: but at the same time, we shouldn’t make it the expected default.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: If we are to expand, we will need revenue. Since we want to have the funds before we spend them….
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: …we need to think about our revenue systems.
Dianne Mechanique: whata about the taxation idea?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: World Domination Now comes at a price 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: is that dead?
Dianne Mechanique: hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: funny Gwyn
Flyingroc Chung: I had an idea for partially funding the next sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Flyingroc Chung: …
Claude Desmoulins: Sudan has raised her concerns about the city taking portions of commercial revenues.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Claude Desmoulins: *Sudane
Sudane Erato: yes… I’m negative about a sales tax… which that is
Aliasi Stonebender: I also have one that may be Sudane’s, too – we’re competing against all theplaces in SL that DON’T have a sales tax.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I asked before: should all revenue systems be based on “land”?
Sudane Erato: yes
Dianne Mechanique: thats true
Aliasi Stonebender: land/prims.
Flyingroc Chung: based on property
Sudane Erato: and I think they should
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, land/prims.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Dianne Mechanique: makes sense
Sudane Erato: land and prims are in direct relationship
Aliasi Stonebender: (since, really, one equals the other unless you’re dividing a single plot for the use of several people.)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we vote on it? 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: My concern with zoned land fees is that it’s taxarion by proximity. If your neighbor’s business is wildly successful, your taxes go up.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Dianne Mechanique: thats true of RL though
Sudane Erato: thats true… and a valid problem
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed it is.
Sudane Erato: I think we need to agree on some principles
Claude Desmoulins: If we do a zoned system, here’s a proposal….
Flyingroc Chung: well, if your business is not doing as well as your neighbor, you may still be able to sell your land for a higher price?
Sudane Erato: then I can draft some idaes
Sudane Erato: and we can refine them
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d prefer just a simple residential/commercial split, with commercial being a bit higher. I’m not sure “penalizing” people for being successful is a good idea.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I personally abstain from either decision 🙂 I think both have advantages and disadvantages.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I agree that we should stick to one system…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let it run for a few months…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And evaluate 🙂
Sudane Erato: but… we must plan for ways to raise more funds
Dianne Mechanique: dont we need more zones?
Sudane Erato: I see
Dianne Mechanique: right now ther is city and country
Dianne Mechanique: but that does not necessarily equate to commercial
Dianne Mechanique: and residential
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, actually, nobody lives “inside” the city much.
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Dianne Mechanique: but an explicit commercial zone
Flyingroc Chung: should we rezone the entire city as commercial?
Dianne Mechanique: might be better
Dianne Mechanique: to justify the higher rate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was thinking of that, FR.
Sudane Erato: its is zoned at a higher rate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mostly commercial and event hosting.
Aliasi Stonebender: but not very much higher.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This would be bringing the ice rink inside the city walls…
Claude Desmoulins: I live in town.
Sudane Erato: about 40% higher
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and demolish half a dozen Fachwerks
Sudane Erato: 58.. 77
Sudane Erato: I think
Aliasi Stonebender: oh? heh. I hadn’t done the math.
Dianne Mechanique: can one do business outside the city currently though?
Flyingroc Chung: no
Sudane Erato: no
Dianne Mechanique: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, Kendra is sadly not here, but she suggested informally that we had a model with shops on the ground floor, apartments for rent on the first floor.
Sudane Erato: ahh… Claude’s map 🙂
Sudane Erato: and if I recall… there were serious obstacles to the rental idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂 hehe
Dianne Mechanique: does anyone know who if anyone lives n the city?
Dianne Mechanique: or how many?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Satchmo…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eugene
Sudane Erato: about 8 – 12 people
Kazuhiko Shirakawa: I was going to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, Eugene has both plots inside and outside…
Flyingroc Chung: as I recall, kendra proposed that we actually sell the apartments like regular land plots… kind of like condos
Dianne Mechanique: cause why should those peopel pay commercial rates
Dianne Mechanique: if they have no store?
Sudane Erato: yes… it depends on what you mean by “live”
Claude Desmoulins: Can someone move my map to the middle of the roM?
Sudane Erato: you need to share it
Sudane Erato: oh!
Flyingroc Chung: can you put it on the wiki?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the jug complicates things!!
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s a draft zoning model.
Aliasi Stonebender: the jug is shared to group, should I move it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe perhaps, Aliasi!
Claude Desmoulins: Light blue are the plots with platz frontage (highest rate?)
Claude Desmoulins: Purple is Altenburg.
Claude Desmoulins: Dark red is a proposed University.
Flyingroc Chung: the schloss is part of altenburg?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww finally hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Orange – Gwynethstr.
Sudane Erato: no
Sudane Erato: not really
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and no, FR.
Sudane Erato: the Schloss is now abandoned land
Claude Desmoulins: It’s a draft 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: pale red is the north sidel]
Sudane Erato: this is great Claude
Claude Desmoulins: Dark blue, everything else.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (there could be a complex explanation, FR, since Altenburg is 12th century, whereas the Schloss is 19th century ? but that’s besides the point 😉 )
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, I always DID want my own castle… >.>
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww Aliasi!
Claude Desmoulins: I have a .png I’ll put on the wiki.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll have it for the Scientific Council!
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Diderot Mirabeau: “Palais de Justice”
Sudane Erato: I hope the SC is rich 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll be…. we’ll have the citizens pay fines
Flyingroc Chung: the SC can charge for legal opinion
Claude Desmoulins: That raises the question of what plots should be public land (or city supported to use Sudane’s term)
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Dianne Mechanique: The SC should have a great Dark tower
Sudane Erato: *sigh*…. too much city-supported land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sadly so.
Sudane Erato: one thing we must do Is privatize
Claude Desmoulins: Rathaus must be.
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: I *do* have a great Dark Tower, dianne. 😉
Dianne Mechanique: hehe
Dianne Mechanique: thats right
Claude Desmoulins: If we don’t want it dull of vendors, the Platz itself..
Claude Desmoulins: *full
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Sudane Erato: I feel we should seell the loots on the platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s another issue again.
Sudane Erato: but Kendra does not agree
Claude Desmoulins: Kirche and Schloss are debatable.
Flyingroc Chung: is the MoMA city-supported?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: MoCA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Sudane Erato: well… the MoMa? is in a complex arrangement
Dianne Mechanique: The Platz is the first thing people see
Flyingroc Chung: well it’s MoMA on the map!
Dianne Mechanique: if it was a tacky mall
Sudane Erato: MoCa?
Claude Desmoulins: It should be redone as a coffee house:)
Dianne Mechanique: that woudl be bad wouldnt it?
Aliasi Stonebender: I wouldn’t mind keeping the platz itself clear, so the city can decorate.
Sudane Erato: so long as the coffee house pays Fee
Aliasi Stonebender: it’d also give us a bit of systemwide “prim slack”.
Flyingroc Chung: I oppose burning the church down. lol
Dianne Mechanique: hehe
Garnet Psaltery: Yay, coffee-house!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: MoCA – coffee house (bad pun)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Dianne Mechanique: the church could pay for itself
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Claude Desmoulins: how?
Dianne Mechanique: as an event space couldn’t it?
Sudane Erato: yes!
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I’ll start accepting donations 😉
Flyingroc Chung: you need a collection basket in the church
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that will hardly work, but it’s always worth a try…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … or else, I’ll fill it up with vendors 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: heh, if you need a donation pot Gwyn, I’ve got a spare, the kind I use for Primtionary. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The second part of this is….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just seriously ? SL is going to move to a new stage, where all events will be paid.
Claude Desmoulins: ….land which is city supported should remain with the Ramnutzung, no?
Sudane Erato: yes… it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, I’d like to have a few months until that is put in place by LL.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree, Claude.
Claude Desmoulins: And objects should be owned by Rudeen or the Guldemeister?
Claude Desmoulins: *Gilde….
Sudane Erato: the Raumnutzung is the group owning all the City land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They could/should be set to group….
Sudane Erato: unsold lots as well
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: For example….
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t think it matters who owns the objects, so long as they are (a) set to group and (b) set shared.
Sudane Erato: true
Aliasi Stonebender: anyone doing work on city-owned land can join the group as a member for the duration of the work.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: BladeDancer? owns the church building and its furnishings. I’v never seen him in world. If we wanted to make changes, could we?
Claude Desmoulins: we=the city
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve seen BladeDancer? on occasion.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I don’t know, Claude, but Kendra always tells me she could do it.
Sudane Erato: I recently made one change
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I guess she has a way to keep in touch with BladeDancer?.
Aliasi Stonebender: One could return sections and alter it as needed.
Sudane Erato: I saw Blade recently
Sudane Erato: but he’s not here much
Dianne Mechanique: sorry folks I’m afraid i have to go
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, about time for me, too.
Flyingroc Chung: cya dianned
Dianne Mechanique: bye 🙂
Sudane Erato: bye guys!
Flyingroc Chung: dianne, even
Aliasi Stonebender: but I’ll try to stay long enough to end this topic..
Flyingroc Chung: bye
Dianne Mechanique: see you later Sudane 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll put the zoning map on the wiki/forums. Let’s table.
Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: great Claude
Garnet Psaltery: Bye Dianne
Claude Desmoulins: Bye
Claude Desmoulins: Constitution/Legal revision.
Claude Desmoulins: Someone needs to gather all the existing documents.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *all* hmm
Aliasi Stonebender: I had a thread on the forum, still sticky, but hardly anybody’s posted.
Claude Desmoulins: Only then can we draft new stuff,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I saw that, Aliasi 😛
Aliasi Stonebender: Yeah, we don’t have a good collection of posted laws.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True.
Sudane Erato: ahh… yes..
Sudane Erato: Pen has them tho
Claude Desmoulins: Or, for example, the RA procedues.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The forums are not good for that… the Wiki will be much better.
Aliasi Stonebender: Granted, with a wiki, it’s easy to post…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Aliasi Stonebender: so get on Pen about that. 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Flyingroc Chung: yes, wiki!
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: One everything is out, we can draft changes out of world.
Flyingroc Chung: acttually didnt the old website have sme of those documents?
Aliasi Stonebender: just have ot have a NburgLaw? section or somesuch
Aliasi Stonebender: the old website had ONE law.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow, one? 🙂 hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: and of course the constitution, covenants, etc.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Aliasi Stonebender: but none of the regular law the RA’s passed.
Sudane Erato: those are all available
Claude Desmoulins: we need a section of laws, procedures, etc. Not everything has to me in the constitution.
Claude Desmoulins: *be
Sudane Erato: right… exactly
Claude Desmoulins: Where?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the “founding” documents are fine, just the laws and the procedures are scattered among the forums.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, let’s use the Wiki for now.
Aliasi Stonebender: well claude, like I said, just make a section on the Wiki.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And later, it’ll have a section in the “Neualtenburg Portal”.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m good with that.
Aliasi Stonebender: okay, I’ve got to skedaddle.
Claude Desmoulins: Bye.
Flyingroc Chung: bye aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or even skedazzle 🙂
Sudane Erato: bye Aliasi
Garnet Psaltery: Bye all as well :o)
Claude Desmoulins: The next one is my pet project.
Sudane Erato: bye 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you Aliasi ? and remember, we have to talk a bit about the SC as well!
Diderot Mirabeau: bye
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, I emailed you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops. I should read that. ty.
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, who’s going to replace you here?
Aliasi Stonebender: just let me know when we can do the formal in-world meeting.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, we have a problem here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technically, it should be the “next in line”
Sudane Erato: oops… Kendra is on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But for that, we will have to have access to the election data.
Flyingroc Chung: as I understand it, you can be on more than one political body, but only vote in one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes FR
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Ulrika has to be replaced as Dean
Claude Desmoulins: Right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the Dean cannot be in the RA.
Flyingroc Chung: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Aliasi and myself will have a formal meeting
Claude Desmoulins: How about an SDF caucus to fill the seat, since we don’t have election data?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (we had already an informal one with a witness)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Claude ? I’ve talked to Eugene about it.
Sudane Erato: hi Kendra!
Kendra Bancroft: Hullo 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, *unless* Ulrika is “willing” to reveal any data
Flyingroc Chung: hey kendra
Claude Desmoulins: Hi.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hi tehre Kendra
Kendra Bancroft: Just got home –then had to DL the new version
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack yes.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: now that kendra is here…
Sudane Erato: Can I offer an official thanks?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!!!
Sudane Erato: for this wonderful new building!
Kendra Bancroft: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Absolutely.
Sudane Erato: Bravo!!
Kendra Bancroft: I’m so happy everyone likes it –I wanted everyone gathered for any suggestions before I put on the finishing touches
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sadly the recorder does not capture the sounds of cheering and clapping!!)
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: so if anyone thinks of anything they’d like in here –do let me know
Kendra Bancroft: Kendra smiles ay Kaz
Sudane Erato: hehe… more camera space 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: A railing so we don’t fall through the hole to the ground floor 🙂
Sudane Erato: haha
Flyingroc Chung: I want these chairs to turn into money chairs. 😛
Kendra Bancroft: yes –a railing would be good
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t think I could get more camera space in here
Sudane Erato: I know
Kendra Bancroft: I actually thot it was pretty good
Sudane Erato: just joking 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: seriously though, it’s already great like this
Sudane Erato: its great!
Claude Desmoulins: My next thing……
Kendra Bancroft: I’d like all the factions to send me banners
Kendra Bancroft: so I can place hanging faction banners downstairs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, that would be cool hehe
Claude Desmoulins: How does one make a banner?
Sudane Erato: hmmmm
Kendra Bancroft: Just send me whatever texture you use for your signs –make it modifiab;e -I’ll turn them into banners
Sudane Erato: great!
Claude Desmoulins: …..Universitat Neualtenburg.
Kendra Bancroft: Hope you don’t mind if I jazz up the DPU a tad
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Go ahead. Just give me a copy back when you’re done:)
Kendra Bancroft: will do Il Presidente
Claude Desmoulins: I needed a logo fast.
Flyingroc Chung: so, what is this nburg university thing?
Kendra Bancroft: As Gildemeister, Sudane –your main function at these meetings is to make sarcastic quips like I used to
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe… nooooo
Sudane Erato: things change
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Many entities say they want to do education here, but it’s all scripting and building. Education is a natural service sector for SL.
Kendra Bancroft: Okay –then I’ll still be the Quipmeister
Sudane Erato: shhhhh
Claude Desmoulins: Do a real continuing ed operation with classes in non SL subjects.
Claude Desmoulins: I do distance ed in real life, so I
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: it’s a pet project.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m not ready to fund it, run it completely myself.
Sudane Erato: I have one building here that would be ideal
Claude Desmoulins: My propsed model goes somethinglike this….
Sudane Erato: for a contained class
Claude Desmoulins: Right.
Claude Desmoulins: Identify would be instructors and verify their RL credentials.
Kendra Bancroft: This would be for any type of classes?
Claude Desmoulins: Since the institution verifies the skills of the faculty, charge for classes.
Flyingroc Chung: sounds like it
Claude Desmoulins: City gets a cut, faculty member gets a cut, institution gets a cut.
Sudane Erato: hehe… sales tax 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I think the logical spot to do it is to..
Kendra Bancroft: Interesting –does experience in RL tasks qualify –or are we using only accredited teachers?
Claude Desmoulins: …Yes, sales tax.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude, I put your old email to me on this on a notecard inside the penguin.
Claude Desmoulins: Experience counts. What do you mean by accredited?….. Higher ed usually requires post baccalaureate + 18 hrs in the discipline.
Claude Desmoulins: We put it on 2385 and 2410 Urusula weg, closing the street between them.
Kendra Bancroft: okay –so as a BFA employed as a working graphics artist for the last 20 years –I could teach photoshop?
Sudane Erato: interesting
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Sudane Erato: I have one person whos interested in 2385….
Claude Desmoulins: BTW most higher ed accrediting agencies have a RL mechanism like this.
Sudane Erato: but she’s been interested for 2 months 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: That’s why I wanted the idea on the table.
Sudane Erato: sure
Flyingroc Chung: Hm, why shouldnt this be a purely private institution?
Kendra Bancroft: well I’d be definately interested in teaching photoshop
Sudane Erato: great
Claude Desmoulins: I look around at SLCC/ Withnail Acad. etc. and none of them have so much as a class schedule or faculty list.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True.
Claude Desmoulins: It could be, I suppose. I think one could also view educational infrastructure as a public good.
Sudane Erato: hehe… all of NBurg is a public good… but that doen’t pay the LL fee
Diderot Mirabeau: but then there should be discount on tuition for NeuAltenburg? residents?
Claude Desmoulins: If the city chips in 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I imagine anything we can up with as incentives for citizenship is all to the good
Diderot Mirabeau: it could be a way to attract more cititzens … it need not be large
Claude Desmoulins: Anyway, if anyone is interested in working on or investing in the project, please let me know. The land investment is about $25 USD
Kendra Bancroft: Count me in, Clause
Flyingroc Chung: Do you think that this venture would break-even at some point even without the city subsidy?
Kendra Bancroft: Claude
Sudane Erato: yes… me too
Claude Desmoulins: I certainly hope so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’d need a budget, of course.
Sudane Erato: and of course… the Guild be help in any appropriate way
Claude Desmoulins: E-mail me.
Claude Desmoulins: I also thought that a street change would require RA approval.
Kendra Bancroft: street change?
Sudane Erato: ahh… yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, Claude, in the proposal you suggest accreditation of the teachers. Does this mean you’d be considering some sort of a valid, legal, RL diploma or something for the students when they finish their courses?
Claude Desmoulins: No.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I got your wrong, then 😀
Claude Desmoulins: This is continuing ed, done for one’s own enrichment. I don’t want to deal withthe red tape of granting certificates RL.
Claude Desmoulins: If we want to, you’d need to partner with a RL institution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see. Ok!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m just wondering.
Flyingroc Chung: You could give out a certificate… just not, hm, accredited
Gwyneth Llewelyn does RL education using SL hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I work for one of them, but I’m not ready to try to explain this idea to my RL higher ups 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I’m In!! I’m walking!! DON”T SNEEZE!!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, FR
Sudane Erato: yay Pen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pen!
Claude Desmoulins: What I meant by accredited was tthat the people running it would verify the teaching qualifications of the instructors.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Door is to the N side, Pen!
Claude Desmoulins: Thus backing up that the instruction was worth paying for.
Diderot Mirabeau: and perhaps there would also be an evaluation procedure after each class
Claude Desmoulins: Absolutely.
Sudane Erato: yes Claude… makes sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: Claude, i suggest that rather than changinging streets
Sudane Erato: that perhpas we build a building that arches over
Claude Desmoulins: Anyway, it’s out there. COntact me if interested iin participating.
Sudane Erato: like an college quad
Claude Desmoulins: Good idea.
Sudane Erato: well… not a quad
Sudane Erato: but that idea
Claude Desmoulins: Although Urusulaweg doesn’t go anywhere 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: but what about the city’s role in the project … has that been sufficiently discussed at this stage?
Kendra Bancroft: Cool –College town –I’ll build a pizza parlour in Altenburg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the city has a serious advantage here ? the legal framework.
Sudane Erato: no…. but changing the streets would be a difficult precedent
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alternative: blow up some “residential” quarters that are empty anyway 😉
Sudane Erato: actually thats true
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like the city to be a full blown partner, but I know how Sudane feels about sales tax 🙂
Sudane Erato: most of Sudanestrassse is empty
Sudane Erato: well you know my feelings…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes.
Sudane Erato: but really…
Sudane Erato: I am interested in whatever works
Flyingroc Chung: I too would rather see this succeed as a wholly private instituion.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there are alternatives
Sudane Erato: I will argue a position
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, the City can sponsor scholarships.
Sudane Erato: but I will go with the decision
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the University would be private.
Diderot Mirabeau: scholarships for residents only or why would the city want to do that?
Claude Desmoulins: Attract citizens
Diderot Mirabeau: yes if that were the purpose it sounds like a good idea
Kendra Bancroft: We could always go Gorean, according to Mr, Lardner they’re very succesful
Flyingroc Chung: yes they are
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table and let those of us interested hash out some things until the next meeting.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol kendra 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra, let’s do the embassy now. Where does Isenland want it?
Kendra Bancroft: Currently, Isenland is in Takalo –quite near where Neualtenburg used to be in Anzere
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Small world 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I have quite a bit of land there to build it
Kendra Bancroft: about 1/2 of a SIM
Sudane Erato: !!
Kendra Bancroft: the rest is occupied –but I think a N’burg presence on the main grid would be a good thing
Sudane Erato: what would happen at this building?
Kendra Bancroft: well there are too options here –I’ll throw them out for discussion
Kendra Bancroft: I’ve scaled back my presence in takalo – for water property in Funadama
Kendra Bancroft: Mostly cos I sell a snot load of boats
Kendra Bancroft: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: anyways –The Viking presence has moved to Funadama in a small village I call Birka
Diderot Mirabeau: Viking?
Kendra Bancroft: At this point it would make more sense for a N’burg embassy in Birka
Kendra Bancroft: not Isenland
Claude Desmoulins: I guess my question was, Do you want a Birka embassy here?
Kendra Bancroft: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Where?
Kendra Bancroft: I would put it in Altenburg most likely
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Near the cabaret?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … there goes the esplanade, lol
Claude Desmoulins: Since you already own that, the city doesn’t need to do anything, does it?
Kendra Bancroft: yes –I have tentatively built a wooden stabbur (log cabin) on the canal for the emvassy site
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the “embassy” is just a first step
Sudane Erato: but I presume that the city would have to pay for the embassy in Birka?
Kendra Bancroft: I could do this without City involvement true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: into promotion of N’burg in more places, and vice.versa.
Kendra Bancroft: But I would prefer to bring some of the N’burg Government workings to Birka –as I plan to have citizens of the Viking Village
Claude Desmoulins: OK. Let’s put the topic of creating a Foreign Ministry in the RA pipeline.
Kendra Bancroft: and would like the use of N’burg’s legal apparatus
Sudane Erato: yes… i agree
Kendra Bancroft: So that in fact –Birka would become a protectorate of N’burg
Kendra Bancroft: in exchange for a location here
Sudane Erato: omg!
Claude Desmoulins: That would give us mainland presence.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A protectorate!
Kendra Bancroft: exactly, Clause
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: Claude
Sudane Erato: what will it cost???
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wow… that is really wonderful 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: This is what needs hashing out
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: how many people live there, Kendra??
Kendra Bancroft: But I’d like to implement N’burg’s deed system in Birka
Kendra Bancroft: none yet
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t wish to begin until I know that I have N’burg support
Claude Desmoulins: On a tangent we had talked about installing notary desks here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! Ok. Wrong question ? how many are able to live there?
Kendra Bancroft: There is room for about 8 citizens in Birka
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because, you see, that’ll earn them a vote on the RA!
Kendra Bancroft: If I did this in Isenland instead –I’d say 20 max
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we’ll have a representative from Birka… hehe
Kendra Bancroft: But I wish to start small
Claude Desmoulins: Or would Birka have their own RA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: With just 8 people??
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe even direct democracy (town hall meetings) with only 8
Diderot Mirabeau: maybe both .. that’s how we treat protectorates in my country
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh. Hmm. Well.
Kendra Bancroft: Birka would run as it’s own Artist’s Guild essentially and use N’burg’s SC and RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew, that needs much more thought.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m all for the whole concept, hehe
Kendra Bancroft: The covenant rules will all apply –except it’s Viking themed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s no problem at all.
Sudane Erato: it certainly is interesting…
Kendra Bancroft: It’s aim is to take over Funadama Island
Kendra Bancroft: haha
Diderot Mirabeau: by pillage and plunder 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We already have two covenants in N’burg, and the proposal today demanded many more!
Kendra Bancroft: well —yeah
Kendra Bancroft: But I want to investigate this mostly as a way to test whether N’burg’s set-up is franchisable
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn supports that idea completely 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I think if we wish to do this –it’s best to get the bugs out on a small level
Kendra Bancroft: Hence –Birka
Sudane Erato: interesting
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: I’m interested , why don’t you draw up a fleshed out proposal.
Kendra Bancroft: The ultimate goal is for Birka to one day become an Island SIM
Kendra Bancroft: but again –start small
Kendra Bancroft: and I’d prefer to stay on the main grid
Gwyneth Llewelyn: More accounting for the Guild ? now, add an extra cost centre, or whatever it’s called over there… 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, kendra.
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Sudane Erato: *sigh*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, it’ll give future citizens a *choice*.
Claude Desmoulins: Especially as to the RA question, are the Birkese full citizens,. or does Birka have a set number of RA seats.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. some may not like private islands, or the bavarian theme…
Kendra Bancroft: Needless to say there will be one N’burg building in Birka to serve as an trading post/Embassy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that should be *the* question, Claude!
Kendra Bancroft: As I say –for the moment, Birka would be under the RA and SC of N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A protectorate ? a federation ? a confederation ? a union ? or a province?
Kendra Bancroft: and function as it’s own Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn is delighted!
Kendra Bancroft: a colony really
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A COLONY!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Sudane Erato: slave labor 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, but do citizens in Birka voter in our election….
Kendra Bancroft: uhm –No
Kendra Bancroft: That’s a good question
Kendra Bancroft: I’d say no
Flyingroc Chung: why not full citizenship?
Claude Desmoulins: …..or do they have their own election for one or two seats in our RA
Kendra Bancroft: They have voice in their Guild elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m seeing Prokofy’s next post: “Now the left-wing terrorists of Neualtenburg became Socialist Imperialists ? they are setting COLONIES in the mainland, for God’s sake! What will come next???”
Sudane Erato: lol
Sudane Erato: hahahahha
Kendra Bancroft: yes –prok will have a field day with this
Diderot Mirabeau: but how myuch of the Neualtenburg model are you then testing for franchiseability if you do not export the democracy part outside the guild system?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Diderot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They should be citizens, and vote for the RA, get appointed to the SC
Kendra Bancroft: As Birka grows –it can cover the remaining brances on Independance
Diderot Mirabeau: fair enough .. you’ve got to start somewhere
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra, bring it back in more detail and we’ll hash out the specifics.
Kendra Bancroft: But it’s size would limit that for now
Sudane Erato: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: make it manageable
Sudane Erato: I agree Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* yes yes
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –I’ll draw up a proposal for next week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Last thing….
Kendra Bancroft: Though I might have Nisse make the presentation 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Even though there’s no money to expand right now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, one of the agenda points for the SC to philosophise about in the next few weeks will be the concept of “citizenship in Neualtenburg”
Flyingroc Chung: I wonder if this equires a consti amendment
Kendra Bancroft: as he will be the “face” of Birka
Diderot Mirabeau: Nisse … lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … or should we talk about the “Neualtenburg federation”? 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We could still start the process of planning.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Confederatio Neualtenburgia.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just like Switzerland and Lichtenstein 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Perhaps the proposal should be made to the SC first?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm well.
Claude Desmoulins: Have you read my forum post on expansion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC does not make the amendments, thogh
Kendra Bancroft: No –but they are needed to help forge the status of a Birka citizen under N’burg governance
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes yes.
Kendra Bancroft: Birka, like most viking villages would essentially be a corporatist oligarchy under the leadership of a chieftain (analogius to the Gildemeister)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sorry, Claude, I think I’m well behind your posts 😛
Claude Desmoulins: Unless that status is made explicit by the RA when this thing is set up.
Sudane Erato: I must leave in 10 min
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the Sc can help.
Flyingroc Chung: Hm, I think what needs to be made clear is what sort of representation Birka citizens would have in nburg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and what sorts of responsabilities, etc
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –but that’s for N’burg to hash out
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll be giving you the mechanics of Birka
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: then there is also the related problem of what sanctions nburg can mete out to birka citizens… for example, do the expulsion rules apply?
Kendra Bancroft: Birka is at this point an empty village in search of mechanism
Kendra Bancroft: yes, Roc –they would –that’s the point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Claude Desmoulins: Dropped an expansion notecard onthe penguin.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think that’s workable.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah thank you Claude!
Kendra Bancroft: essentially I’d like it to be extra real estate for N’burg
Claude Desmoulins: There’s no reason we couldn’t invite proposals for the second sim before we commit $
Kendra Bancroft: so pushing for a vote would perhaps be a movement in Birka
Kendra Bancroft: but one that N’burg won’t grant lightly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hmm can’t get your notecard, Claude)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But since you’ve mentioned the 2nd sim
Sudane Erato: i can’t either
Kendra Bancroft: This could prove to be an excellent way to hash out 2nd SIM details
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not sure if you have seen that last post of Melanie’s
Sudane Erato: Melina, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes ? sorry, I stand corrected!
Sudane Erato: Moomf Murray is selling a sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: She basically pointed out that there are more people selling 2nd hand sims
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: but we knew there is a market, right?
Kendra Bancroft: I think there will always be a market for used sims
Sudane Erato: graet!
Sudane Erato: got it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’d say we should postpone that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah drats ? sorry Claude, I have to go off Busy mode!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: There.
Flyingroc Chung: yay for the marketing part, claude
Sudane Erato: folks… I’ll have to leave….
Sudane Erato: and either take the recorder
Kendra Bancroft: Okay, Gildemeister 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: There’s no reason we couldn’t seek proposals now.
Sudane Erato: or show someone how to turn it off
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
Claude Desmoulins: Go aheads and take it. We won’t do any more business.
Kendra Bancroft: Sudane –let;s set up a meeting soon so we can hash out the Chamber of Commerce stuff
Sudane Erato: so we are adjourned?
Flyingroc Chung: the proposal should include the cost of building the sim, yes?
Sudane Erato: yes Kendra!
Claude Desmoulins: Same time next week.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes,
Sudane Erato: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right 🙂
The meeting closed at 16:58 Linden time.RA Meeting: February 01, 2006
Claude Desmoulins: I have a RL event in acouple of minutes that will require a brief recess.
Claude Desmoulins: Touch the document box for Agenda and bills.
Pendari Lorentz: no worries Claude.. =)
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane, can you start with a Gilde/treasury report?
Claude Desmoulins: Welcome Clint.
Sudane Erato: ahh… not much to report on the Treasury side…
Sudane Erato: about to close out Jan…
Sudane Erato: on the Gilde side
Sudane Erato: I’ve been in touch with Zarf
Sudane Erato: but we haven’t met up yet
Sudane Erato: thats regarding the Notary system
Sudane Erato: thats about it…
Sudane Erato: most of the effort went into the proposals
Claude Desmoulins: % minute recess, please.
Pendari Lorentz: % = 5 I bet ya a linden
Pendari Lorentz: *wink*
Claude Desmoulins: OK. Somone please holler at me in an hour so I can collect a test.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: its 3:23
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi, Anything to report from the SC meeting?
Pendari Lorentz: since we are on a break.. I have to say.. Aliasi!! I LOVE that outfit! =)
Aliasi Stonebender: thankee, pendari. as for the SC meeting
Pendari Lorentz: oops.. are we not on break?
Claude Desmoulins: It was a very short break. Did anyone actually leave?
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: we need an RA confirmation of several proposed SC members.
Claude Desmoulins: I had Dianne and Flyingroc. Does that count as several?
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: well, okay, technically, several is more than two, but that works.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: depends how many fingers you’ve got perhaps 😉
Pendari Lorentz: per the constitution, they need to be present at an RA meeting so that they can be questioned (if there are any questions).. I see flyingroc here, but afk.. so we could talk with him when he gets back?
Aliasi Stonebender: that would probably be best, yes.
Aliasi Stonebender: and we’ll have to drag dianne in here when we can.
Sudane Erato: he’s making curry
Pendari Lorentz: we could always catch Dianne at a future meeting, and I’d do a special meeting if it would fit her schedule better
Pendari Lorentz: meaning, I would show up to a special one
Sudane Erato: I don’t think she knew she was to be here
Diderot Mirabeau: here’s Garnet … hi 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: post it in the forum, perhaps, yes.
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Claude is LRA and would schedule =)
Garnet Psaltery: hello
Claude Desmoulins: The SDF is AWOL tonight 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: hey Garnet!
Pendari Lorentz: *wave*
Garnet Psaltery: :o)
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll talk to FR when he gets back from the curry.
Claude Desmoulins: Anything on the website RFP?
Pendari Lorentz: most of the SDF have a hard time with this day/time for meetings.. but I/we know you are working on being available for weekends Claude =)
Sudane Erato: exactly where did we stand with that?
Claude Desmoulins: The web site or the meetingd?
Sudane Erato: hehe… the site
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn put a document on the wiki, but it’s more of a process than a spec.
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Claude Desmoulins: We probably need to move to starting to put together lists of required/desired features.
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: the personal accounts part of that I was going to draft
Pendari Lorentz: that would be good!
Flyingroc Chung: I’m lagging something fierce… lemme relog
Pendari Lorentz: ok Flyingroc.. good luck!
Pendari Lorentz: was an update today.. I expected issues (or was it yesterday? same difference i suppose)
Sudane Erato: hehe… today
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s also try to figure out what needs to come first so we can do this in stages.
Sudane Erato: well… I have an urgent need
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t think it’s ready to vote on yet.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes?
Pendari Lorentz: do what in stages? the Website?
Sudane Erato: that the updated land data appear
Sudane Erato: Roc has made a page of it
Sudane Erato: but its not yet linked to the site
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s simple enough to do, SUdane.
Sudane Erato: I’m sure it is
Claude Desmoulins: You can get to it from the front page.
Aliasi Stonebender: you can make off-site links on the wiki.
Aliasi Stonebender: ah, did you already do that, claude?
Pendari Lorentz: do what in stages? the website?
Sudane Erato: but I am totally web code ignorant
Claude Desmoulins: I didn’t but someone did
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, the website.
Aliasi Stonebender: wiki doesn’t use webcode, but it’s own simplified formatting, and there’s a great big help file when you edit. 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: thanks! just want to be on the same page =)
Aliasi Stonebender: okay, good.
Sudane Erato: well.. Roc’s page is a scripted thing
Sudane Erato: it goes out and grabs data from my text file
Sudane Erato: whenever anyone acceses it
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe the first stage should be to recreate the functionality from Ulrika’s old website.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: definitely
Pendari Lorentz: I am a director of ecommerce in my RL business, I know about web coding.. I will be happy to help, but do not have the time to be the main person doing it. I’m sorry 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: If I can find a few hours, I can reimplement the land thing in PHP/MySQL
Pendari Lorentz: that would be great Claude!
Sudane Erato: we have a lot of volunteers…
Sudane Erato: just need someone to coordinate
Claude Desmoulins: As to the meeting times 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: that would be good… I’d help more, but my web design skill dates from the late 90s. Nowadays I rely on intermediate site software like wiki and blogs.
Claude Desmoulins: The monitor for my Ubuntu box is supposed to show up tomorrow.
Pendari Lorentz: I write webpages in notepad.. I’m hardcore
Pendari Lorentz: *wink*
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Sudane Erato: haha
Claude Desmoulins: Dreamweaver
Claude Desmoulins: Can we refer the website back to the wiki. Maybe someone can put up a page where people can volunteer to do a piece.
Pendari Lorentz: I think that is a good idea! people have volunteered, it is just a matter of saying yes do it! =)
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Who wants to be traffic cop?
Pendari Lorentz: no comment
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Does the RA need to approve the DB structure?
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll put something up this week.
Sudane Erato: it certainly didnt the first one
Flyingroc Chung: shouldnt the RA just authorize a web-team to do all the web dev?
Sudane Erato: yes!
Aliasi Stonebender: I think that’s more a Guild area… the RA says “do this thing”, the Guild handles the details mostly.
Claude Desmoulins: Did we sort of have that last week?
Sudane Erato: i mean, the guild could too
Pendari Lorentz: I would think that is more an SC issue.. the RA would proably only step in if it required funding or in some way “disturbed” the city
Pendari Lorentz: oh.. yes. Guild as well! SC and Guild on that one
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn , I and someone got volunteered to work on the spec.
Aliasi Stonebender: but regardless, someone had to do it.
Aliasi Stonebender: *has
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: ok
Sudane Erato: its the one area i am really ignorant
Sudane Erato: but I will try to shanghai people
Claude Desmoulins: SUdane, Why don’t you, I and Gwyn bounce some e-mails back and forth.
Sudane Erato: ok… good
Pendari Lorentz: Like I stated, I’ll be happy to help on that where I can.. but I do that all day long for my work, so I don’t want to burn myself out.. hehe
Flyingroc Chung: pen, dont you do this irl, draw up specs for websites?
Sudane Erato: why not make up an email list
Sudane Erato: the bounce it amoung all of us
Pendari Lorentz: yes Flyingroc.. hehe.. just include me on the list.. I’ll be happy to offer advice where I can if needed =)
Claude Desmoulins: OK . IM me if you want to be on the web site list.
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Preferably after I’m out of world so I’ll have an email record.
Claude Desmoulins: Now…..
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: dang.. I just Imed him
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Claude Desmoulins: FR’s confirmation hearing.
Flyingroc Chung: uh oh
Pendari Lorentz: yay Flyingroc!
Claude Desmoulins: Any questions for the nominee?
Pendari Lorentz: ack! I have a question, but my daughter is trying to kill our cat.. I’ll be right back!! so sorry!!
Pendari Lorentz: afk
Claude Desmoulins: Any _Other_ questions? 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: I cannot comment on that because this issue may be brought before the court!
Flyingroc Chung: heh, sry, just practicing
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Flyingroc Chung: seriously though… I’m glad to answer any questions
Claude Desmoulins: Mr. Chung, do you have any judicial experience (star chambers, kangaroo courts, etc.)?
Flyingroc Chung: not really…
Flyingroc Chung: unless refereeing fights among my siblings count
Claude Desmoulins: What’s ypur understanding of the role of the SC?
Flyingroc Chung: Well, the constitution says that the SC is the judicial body that looks at the constitutionality of the laws. It also acts as a policing body, on constitutional matters.
Flyingroc Chung: I think originally, it is thought up more as an academic body
Flyingroc Chung: practiaclly though… I’d say it’s mostly there to check the excesses of the RA & the guild, and moderate the forums.
Flyingroc Chung: not that the RA and the guild are excessive
Flyingroc Chung: yet
Flyingroc Chung: haha
Claude Desmoulins: Pen, did you have something?
Pendari Lorentz: back.. so sorry
Aliasi Stonebender: (I’m not asking questions, since, afterall, I was part of the SC that nominated him.)
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. Flyingroc
Pendari Lorentz: one of your main duties as an SC member is moderation of the group forum
Flyingroc Chung: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all 🙂
Sudane Erato: well!
Pendari Lorentz: one time in the past you were moderated by an SC member..
Diderot Mirabeau: hi Gwyn 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: ah yes
Claude Desmoulins: Hi Gwyn. Did Eugene know about the meeting?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Eugene continues to have his login problems….
Pendari Lorentz: do you feel as an SC member you would moderate fairly and within the constitution guidelines. Even if at the time the Consitution guidelines did not suit your beliefs>
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure.
Pendari Lorentz: welcome Gwyn!! *hugs*
Flyingroc Chung: I am not sure that the constitution guidelines do not suit my beliefs
Pendari Lorentz: I’m not asking if they do.. hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: hm, the constitution is the law of the land. And I will try to follow the constitution… now if the constitution did not follow my own beliefs… there is recourse for that
Flyingroc Chung: which is to seek a change in the constitution
Flyingroc Chung: but barring the change… well, honestly if something stands aquarely against my belief, and I had to act either for the constitution, or against my own belief.
Flyingroc Chung: …
Flyingroc Chung: I’d quit
Sudane Erato: makes sense
Pendari Lorentz: honestly
Pendari Lorentz: ?
Flyingroc Chung: I mean there are compromises that can be reached. for example, if there is a case where I do not believe I can be impartial, I can recuse myself
Flyingroc Chung: or if there is a court decision that I dont agree with, I can write a dissent
Pendari Lorentz: the *main* duty of the SC is to uphold the constitution as it currently stands. I can very much support someone that would abide by that while working on changes. But I cannot support someone who would dismiss the active constitution for
Pendari Lorentz: “their own reasons”
Sudane Erato: i don’t think Roc said that
Pendari Lorentz: clarify then? because personally I think you would make a great SC memeber.. but this is an important thought =)
Claude Desmoulins: For that matter, the Gildemeister is the only official who is individually empowered.
Claude Desmoulins: Other branches work collectively.
Pendari Lorentz: I swear I’m not picking on you Flyingroc.. I asked Aliasi a rough question too.. haha..
Flyingroc Chung: I am not dismissing the constitution… I think that while flawed it is essentially a good document. Now, if, for example, as a pre hypothtical, the RA passes a constitutional amendment that allows torture… I’d rather quit the SC than acquiesce.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: the SC can veto any amendement.. so that situation would not happen
Claude Desmoulins: Huh???
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: as per our current constitution yes
Flyingroc Chung: just a hypothetical 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. let me try and rephrase
Claude Desmoulins: No. I see it.
Claude Desmoulins: This document is truly a well intentioned mess, isn’t it 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Flyingroc, the number one duty of the SC is to uphold the constitution as it stands in that moment in time. Do you feel you can do that (while helping to change things within the current laws)?
Flyingroc Chung: Yes, I think I can.
Pendari Lorentz: woohoo! I like him =)
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I call the question,
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of Mr. Chung’s nomination , say Aye.
Pendari Lorentz: Aye =)
Aliasi Stonebender: Aye aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Welcome to the SC, Roc.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hooray 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Next….
Sudane Erato: yay!!!
Pendari Lorentz: yay! =)
Flyingroc Chung: shoulds someone stand up and filibuster?
Flyingroc Chung: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: haha
Sudane Erato: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: Gwyn will teach you the secret handshake later on.
Garnet Psaltery: You ain’t filling my bust
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: ROFL Garnt
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh I will
Flyingroc Chung: Thanks for the approval, it is a great honor. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I have to recuse myself on the school bill since I’m a trustee… which leaves us w/o a quorum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: However, we may discuss.
Flyingroc Chung: do I get a decoder ring
Flyingroc Chung: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Claude Desmoulins: The bill is 4-5
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: this bill has been preposed in various forms in the past
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, it has.
Pendari Lorentz: I cannot remember a time when anyone was opposed to it happening.. there was only ever a question of if the city should pay for it
Claude Desmoulins: If you’ve followed the forums. Sudane objects to the land fee waiver provision.
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: so… i guess I would call nto question the 20% discount
Claude Desmoulins: My position is that if the city wants a citizen tuition discount, it should be willing to give up something with measurable monetary value.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
Sudane Erato: and i agree with that
Aliasi Stonebender: As do I, to be honest. It’s one thing for totally public land – anyone can use the church, biergarten, etc, etc, etc.
Pendari Lorentz: Education events are on the rise in SL.. both in need and want. I could be a good promotional time to really focus on this
Pendari Lorentz: I = it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree on the focus… actually, we’re just missing right now a community roundtable where people are going to discuss a future of SL where *all events will be paid*
Claude Desmoulins: If the RA wants to drop the discount, the trustees will pay the land fee and we’ll go on our merry way as essentially a private institution.
Pendari Lorentz: woah.. that went over my head Claude
Sudane Erato: thats what i wopuld support
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, Gwyn, and there’s that “Arcadia” contest/expo featuring “pay to play” games.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Aliasi
Pendari Lorentz: drop what discount?
Aliasi Stonebender: the tuition discount, pend.
Pendari Lorentz: do what private institution?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the 20% discount on tuition fees
Sudane Erato: the 20% discount to NBurg residents
Claude Desmoulins: It’s under Land in the bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although I’m not a RA member any more… I can always suggest that an alternative to the 20% discount
Aliasi Stonebender: I could see a discount to the land fee, since our land fees are made to have a little slack in them, are they not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: would be the city granting scolarships
Flyingroc Chung: I suggested on the forums that the city could have a idfferent way of supporting the schoo: a scholarship fund.
Pendari Lorentz: I guess I missed the discount thing.. sorry 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, what FR said 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: scholarships sound dandy too.
Sudane Erato: one way or another these plans have the city supporting the school
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Diderot Mirabeau: a scholarship fund could become an instrument for the city to devise incentives to promote city-beneficial activities
Sudane Erato: so… thats the way it should be decided
Pendari Lorentz: ok Sudane.. that then means, yet again we are voting on if the city should pay for this education program?
Aliasi Stonebender: heh.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Partially support” 🙂
Sudane Erato: true
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, there’s a fair difference between “we pay for it all”, “we ‘land-grant’ it”, “we offer student loans”, etc.
Claude Desmoulins: Since we have no sign of Kendra or Eugene, how about let’s table and discuss in the forums unless one of them shows up.
Pendari Lorentz: well.. I was always in favor of that myself, but I’ll be up for discussion again if needed =)
Pendari Lorentz: /nod claude
Claude Desmoulins: Next. Constitution
Pendari Lorentz: *whistles innocently*
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: What we need first is a good collection on the wiki of all relavent SC decisions and RA bills.
Claude Desmoulins: Pen 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I will be happy to help with that =)
Claude Desmoulins: I’m too new to have most of the stuff.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the problem is, almost everything is on the forums really.
Pendari Lorentz: I’m a ratpacker.. I even still have my newbie cabin from Sept 203 :-p
Pendari Lorentz: 2003 even
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just that they are terribly inefficient to search 😛
Claude Desmoulins: ‘If people have propsed amendments , let’s throw them up in the forums.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Pen 😀
Claude Desmoulins: That’s why we need the documents with legal force on the wiki.
Claude Desmoulins: Save the forums for the proposals.
Gwyneth Llewelyn certainly agrees!
Sudane Erato: I probably have all the penguins 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I’ll put up everything I have.. just at least give me over the weekend when I’ll have more time =)
Sudane Erato: from each meeting
Sudane Erato: but not the decisions
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: What do you mean, not the decisions?
Sudane Erato: well, the penguin s held the bills themselves
Sudane Erato: but the transcripts would hold the decisions
Pendari Lorentz: /nod
Sudane Erato: and then Pen collated everything
Claude Desmoulins: Can you two sort that out so we know what’s now in force?
Sudane Erato: we can try… i think ultimately Pen has it all
Pendari Lorentz: I’m sure we can =)
Claude Desmoulins: Ok.
Sudane Erato: but we can compare and contrast
Pendari Lorentz: /nod Sudane
Claude Desmoulins: Next….
Claude Desmoulins: Zoning
Claude Desmoulins: The draft map is behind you.
Claude Desmoulins: It shows the proposed school location.
Diderot Mirabeau: Claude you need to remember to collect your test results
Diderot Mirabeau: it’s ben an hour now
Pendari Lorentz: Zoning to me is a guild issue.. I’m not sure why we as the RA are talking about it? can someone fill me in?
Diderot Mirabeau: *been
Claude Desmoulins: Done.
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks, though.
Diderot Mirabeau: np
Sudane Erato: well… we’ve been tossing the issue back and forth
Sudane Erato: the issue is zoning as in craeting zones…
Sudane Erato: and then…
Sudane Erato: what shall the use be,,, vis a vis collection of revenues
Flyingroc Chung: The RA sets the taxation rate…
Pendari Lorentz: wouldn’t that be a project we would commision the guild to figure out and present though?
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane,
Sudane Erato: the guild could figure that out as part of a budget
Claude Desmoulins: Do you want to redraw the draft map?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm overall, setting the layout of the city, looks like a RA thingy. Then the specific details is up to the Guild.
Pendari Lorentz: since the guild decides the standards, it would make sense they would decide on zoning
Sudane Erato: well… thats … hmmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Sudane Erato: the RA should decide the principles
Claude Desmoulins: The problem is, what are the zones for?…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I disagree ? that would be like a city council letting the construction companies building what they wished.
Sudane Erato: the guild can do the “house by house”
Claude Desmoulins: If it’s about land use., its Guild.
Claude Desmoulins: If it’s about creating a multitiered taxation system, it’s RA.
Sudane Erato: ok… I’m hapy to take that responsibility
Pendari Lorentz: ahh.. good point Gwyneth.. we tell them what we want, they tell us how much it will cost.. I’m still getting used to the simplicity of that
Sudane Erato: the Guildhall is consistent with that
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it, Pen.
Claude Desmoulins: My impression was it’s the latter, primarily.
Sudane Erato: hehe.. yes
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. carry on.. haha.. I’m with ya now =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The RA, would, conversely have the authority to set land fee rates on a plot by plot basis with the Guildmeister’s consent.
Sudane Erato: well… we need a policy…
Claude Desmoulins: What I see this bill doing is setting up land fee rate zones with the rates TBD (by the RA)
Sudane Erato: this is obviously a confused issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes indeed.
Sudane Erato: yes. Claude
Sudane Erato: that I would agree with
Sudane Erato: althou
Sudane Erato: I don’t think there is consesnus that there should be varying land rates
Claude Desmoulins: In some sense the RA and guild need to (in practice) agree on the zones for this to work.
Aliasi Stonebender: although it’s a natural extension of the current situation.
Sudane Erato: yes… it is
Claude Desmoulins: If there’s not that consensus, how are we going to raise revenue?
Sudane Erato: the way we are now
Sudane Erato: which is fairly even revenue base
Sudane Erato: the only difefrenvce being in City/out of City
Pendari Lorentz: raising revenue is the job of the RA… The guild will work if paid.. but they will boycott if not
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: So, RA, how are we going to raise revenue?
Claude Desmoulins: My impression from last week was that sales tax is dead.
Pendari Lorentz: so basically yes, we need to come up with a plan, present it to the Guild and get their cost proposal
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane, How soon can you have a budget so we know the revenue needs?
Pendari Lorentz: raise revenue? well.. the RA is tasked with promoting the city
Sudane Erato: ahh… I will try that just after the month gets closed
Pendari Lorentz: if we get bodies in, then we raise money.. if we ask the guild to fill the shops with merchandise, we get shoppers
Sudane Erato: I’ve been RL swamped
Sudane Erato: but it is essential
Sudane Erato: thast true Pen
Sudane Erato: thats one technique
Pendari Lorentz: so undrstandable about RL Sudane!!
Claude Desmoulins: I need the floor for a moment
Sudane Erato: to change nothing of the monthly fee system
Gwyneth Llewelyn raises hand ? it’s up to the RA to present a budget for the City, not for the Guild
Sudane Erato: I thought i would propose something
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *not the Guild
Sudane Erato: as a friend 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Point taken.
Pendari Lorentz: /nod Gwyn and Sudane and Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: that was a killer nod haha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I put out a skelatal budget proposal in the forums. Do you want me t oflush it our?
Claude Desmoulins: *out.
Sudane Erato: sure!
Pendari Lorentz: sure!
Claude Desmoulins: RA. What do you want the city to spend money on?
Pendari Lorentz: LOL
Pendari Lorentz: no way you get off that easy Claude.. you have to break it down =)
Aliasi Stonebender: well, I do have these plans for an orbital mind-control ray…
Claude Desmoulins: Here are my priorities.
Claude Desmoulins: 1. Web site
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: 2. Bond retirement
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: good
Sudane Erato: No.2 can come out of existing cash
Claude Desmoulins: If we manage a significant portion of #2 then we can talk about #3
Claude Desmoulins: Marketing budget.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: other sytmatic improvements…
Sudane Erato: systematic
Pendari Lorentz: I say we refer this to a vote in the forums/email.. I am undecided as of yet, and we have 2 RA members not present
Claude Desmoulins: for example?
Sudane Erato: the personnal accounts system
Sudane Erato: to hangle growth better
Claude Desmoulins: We don’t even have a draft budget.
Sudane Erato: handle
Claude Desmoulins: I was thinking of that as part of the web site.
Sudane Erato: I will try to assemble something
Sudane Erato: yes… it might be
Claude Desmoulins: This is why we need to get that web RFP out.
Sudane Erato: but it wasn’t
Sudane Erato: and it is rather different
Claude Desmoulins: At 6:45 we _will_ take a 5 minute recess. I have to do a RL fire drill.
Claude Desmoulins: sorry 4:45
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. I was just going to say, I won’t be able to stay awake until 6:45 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I have to log off in 5 mins
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn and Roc, can you see me when we get done for a few min.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure 😀
Claude Desmoulins: Then we lose quorum,
Claude Desmoulins: Gildehalle
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion.
Pendari Lorentz: Have to get my daughter through her night routine (I’m on eastern time zone
Sudane Erato: Kendra actually came up with the Guild hall idea
Pendari Lorentz: I’m sorry 🙁
Sudane Erato: as to its location
Claude Desmoulins: It’s OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I personally don’t like the idea of “under the Marktplatz”. The rest is perfect!
Sudane Erato: I feel its a great idea
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, where would you put it?
Pendari Lorentz: same here Gwyn! that was the only7 part I didn’t like
Gwyneth Llewelyn: At the Schloss…
Pendari Lorentz: /nod
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane?
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, although it would be nice to come up with some kind of use for the under-platz space at some point.
Sudane Erato: well… there are 2 primary uses for the space
Sudane Erato: one is to provide goods
Gwyneth Llewelyn: With an innovative way to bring people there, say, by a chair lift, or a catapult…
Sudane Erato: for the citizens
Aliasi Stonebender: maybe Schloss = guildehall, under-platz = sandbox?
Sudane Erato: that could take a lot of space
Gwyneth Llewelyn: shhh Aliasi ? that’s for the Ancient Metaverse Order 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I thought that was were we would bury those who didn’t make the SC cut Aliasi?
Pendari Lorentz: *wink*
Claude Desmoulins: Since the Gildehall is a workspace, why not put the SC in the Schloss?
Sudane Erato: and the Schloss does not have a lot of space
Pendari Lorentz: lol Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s also a place for selling things…
Sudane Erato: also,,, a sandbox
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: and the sandbox, too would also want m2
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to vote or table?
Sudane Erato: theres simply a lot of ultility function to what is proposed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And prims as well, Sudane.
Sudane Erato: and the Schloss is better as a showplace location
Claude Desmoulins: Gotta go, back in 5.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “showplace”?
Sudane Erato: kendra feels very confident
Sudane Erato: that the prims can be kept down
Sudane Erato: the “Schloss” as a showplace
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I meant: for the sandbox.
Sudane Erato: right
Pendari Lorentz: alright ya’ll.. I really wish I could stay longer. Weekdays are rough. Glad I was able to stay logged in for this one though! hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And how would the Schloss be used as a showplace?
Sudane Erato: the warehouse and the sandbox are…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Pen 🙂 Indeed!
Sudane Erato: warehousey
Diderot Mirabeau: bye Pendari
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh… lol Sudane 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I’ll talk with you all in emails and forum! was a great meeting! =)
Sudane Erato: great Pen!
Pendari Lorentz: be good.. and don’t do anything I would do
Pendari Lorentz: *wink*
Pendari Lorentz: *wave*
Sudane Erato: hehe bye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye Pen 🙂 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: buhbye
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and thus silence falls in the Rathaus…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re back, Claude??? That was a *short* fire drill!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Guess not! 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: ‘murican efficiency.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Helped that the building wasn’t busy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ooooh we could use that around here!
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s discuss the Platz.
Sudane Erato: well… I have spoken to many people
Sudane Erato: who would love to buy a lot on the Platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see there are new, more interesting plans/suggestions for the Platz… so, no rentals
Sudane Erato: obviously it is perceived
Sudane Erato: as very valuable
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: and just as obviously
Sudane Erato: we have our own value set to apply to activities there
Claude Desmoulins: I kind of liked the rental thing, at least as a pilot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Sudane Erato: this is a proposal to implement something
Sudane Erato: the prob i have with rental
Sudane Erato: is two things
Gwyneth Llewelyn: accounting 🙂
Sudane Erato: one is the citizenship question
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That worries me as well.
Sudane Erato: and two… is the definition of what the person gets
Sudane Erato: prims
Sudane Erato: land rights
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, yes.
Claude Desmoulins: Why? – citizenship.
Claude Desmoulins: If we decide (and the SC concurs) that renters have political rights, that’s that, isn’t it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is a “renter”?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5 people pay each a bit of the rental, to share the same space. Who is a citizen then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or 2 pay, but 3 use it.
Claude Desmoulins: POint taken.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then comes the issue of sub-renting.
Diderot Mirabeau: But if the city is the only one allowed to rent out property surely it could set the conditions for rental .. ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right. So, only one person rents. The others don’t have rights at all. Is that fair?
Diderot Mirabeau: such as “we will only rent out property to one person, who will get political rights, may not share the lease nor sub-let it”
Claude Desmoulins: The school is setting precedent for how we would handle ownership groups.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then comes the “size” of the rental. I just wish to rent 4 prims for a single vendor. Am I now a citizen?
Sudane Erato: but the School will “own” the land!
Claude Desmoulins: No.
Claude Desmoulins: True.
Sudane Erato: there will be a deed
Sudane Erato: and the School will incur obligations
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the problem is on defining the threshold and say: from this point on, you’re a citizen
Diderot Mirabeau: if we feel that it is not sufficient for the city to exercise control by ways of deciding on the parceling of land and on the conditions of a lease ..
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve been of the opinion that someone renting solely for a vendor really shouldn’t be a voting citizen, anymore than I’m a citizen of Japan because I sell something there.
Diderot Mirabeau: then I think that a discussion on the threshold would need to address the worst case scenario of someone trying to game the system to get political influence
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with Aliasi.
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s my thing. If we do this on the platz and something goes _wrong_
Sudane Erato: that could be with the purchase of any bit of land
Aliasi Stonebender: They should have the right to protection of the law, due process, etc, etc, etc
Diderot Mirabeau: yes but it doesn’t really happen now does it .. because most parcels aren’t really 4 prims AFAIK
Claude Desmoulins: if the person owns the land, everything has to slog through the courts.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right now, you don’t have this problem, Diderot, because parcels have a minimum size…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you’d have to define minimum size on rentals as well.
Claude Desmoulins: At least as we start this, I want those merchants on the platz to come up for a review from somebody (probably Gilde)
Sudane Erato: I feel strongly you’d have to rent the entire m2… not just the top floor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, the *real* difference, legally speaking, is that since the City has a monopoly on renting, you cannot transfer your “rental entitlement”, unlike parcel deed ownership.
Sudane Erato: well… Kendra would be happy to provide that service
Diderot Mirabeau: I personally believe that the danger of spoiling the Marktplatz aesthetics are greater than the danger of abuse by granting citizenship with the only restrictions being those imposed through the lease conditions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, it’s the other way round, Diderot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “spoiling” is controlled by the Guild.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that doesn’t worry me at all.
Sudane Erato: Thus the covenant tailored for these lots
Diderot Mirabeau: but for a democracy how can having more citizens to participate in the decision making process pose a problem?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It depends on the *rights* based on different backgrounds 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, either these “rights” come from elsewhere
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and land/rentals/not doing anything at all are untied from “citizenship”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or we’ll have 1st class citizens with more rights than 2nd class citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that, I think, is something I’m pretty much against.
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, Gwyn, let’s keep somethign in mind here
Claude Desmoulins: Before we sell or rent anything, we have to decide what we’re doing with the land fee structure, too.
Aliasi Stonebender: Neualtenburg is not a real-world country. We aren’t depriving people of rights for thesimple mistake of being born here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, lol
Aliasi Stonebender: Nobody is jumping into it without both eyes open.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: still
Sudane Erato: there is the issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I actually think that N’burg could revert back to its original form of defining citizenship: simply a desire to “be part of it”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, that way, buying/renting/doing nothing would be your personal choice.
Claude Desmoulins: What a mess that would make of elections.
Sudane Erato: welll… the problem is that the City now owns a sim
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d be for that, Gwyn, except, in many ways, we still have the “who’s going to pay for it” issue.
Sudane Erato: that worked fine when there was little $$ obligations
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeedy.
Sudane Erato: but it would not now
Aliasi Stonebender: by linking citizenship to financial contribution to the city (through land-owning) we assure that.
Diderot Mirabeau: have them pay citizen tax then
Claude Desmoulins: At least we now have a clear definition of who votes and who doesn’t
Sudane Erato: haha
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes yes. I was just proposing the “alternative” scenario
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because under the current model, people paying for the City have equal rights.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, someone paying for a rental …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … would have one right *less*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is the ability to transfer their “rentee’s rights”.
Diderot Mirabeau: yes and people with large properties pay more than people with smaller properties yet have only one vote .. do they have fewer rights?
Kendra Bancroft: sorry folks –I’m with the flu
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Kendra)
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: good evening Kendra
Claude Desmoulins: HEre’s our quorum.
Sudane Erato: finally the SDF shows up 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: yay!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh well, Neualtenburg is not a plutocracy, Diderot 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although it’s an interesting model.
Flyingroc Chung: get well soon, kendra
Kendra Bancroft: I’m in real bad shape haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ouch Kendra ? sorry to hear that 😛
Aliasi Stonebender: yes. There’s a pretty big gap between “you need to have some kind of “investment” in the City to be allowed a vote” and “he who has the most gold makes the rules”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pretty big, yes, Aliasi.
Aliasi Stonebender: as it is, you can be a citizen by just owning a single fachwerk plot in town for practically nothing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: I was just trying to illustrate that renters are not necessarily second grade citizens just because they cannot transfer their lease rights
Aliasi Stonebender: heck, you could technically divvy up 16m plots for people.
Claude Desmoulins: The issue here is, do we allow rentals- and do we give renters, if they exist, citizenship rights.
Kendra Bancroft: soon all of Neualtenburg will be awash in the lavender menace of the ALTENBURG GRUPPE BWAHAHAHAHA
Aliasi Stonebender: actually, that’s an interesting idea come ot think of it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, but they are, Diderot ? the point here is “equal rights”. After all, they have the same duties: paying their fees.
Sudane Erato: hehe… which is a mighration from the bill under discussion 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: what if we took one of the “prim land” plots
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s stay on topic here…. The platz.
Aliasi Stonebender: and split it into 16m plots, and, just as the current primland plots are reserved for in-city land owners
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: political rights are a seperate issue from rights of property
Aliasi Stonebender: hold on claude
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m getting to it!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: these special plots would be “linked” to the “rental stalls” on the platz.
Aliasi Stonebender: thus nicely sidestepping the issue.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I see.
Kendra Bancroft: interesting, Aliasi –I like it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So they wouldn’t have to “own” land inside the Platz
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t like the idea of kiosks on the platz.
Sudane Erato: but if they get that tiny… what do they use for prims???
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that is a good solution, IMHO
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Prims don’t need to be tied to the land.
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, much as, how we can now have any citizen place a vendor in the city’s general store.
Aliasi Stonebender: this would simply be an extension of that concept.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane, under this bill what happens to the biergarten.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed
Sudane Erato: but thats what we’re doing
Aliasi Stonebender: The reason I propose this
Sudane Erato: I think it too should be sold…
Sudane Erato: but some….
Kendra Bancroft: Isn’t the Biergarten somewhat of a landmark at this point?
Sudane Erato: disagree
Sudane Erato: yes…
Aliasi Stonebender: is I don’t see the reason for complicating things when we can simply use current structure, citizenship wise.
Sudane Erato: so it should be sold under a strict covenant
Claude Desmoulins: Question…..
Sudane Erato: no alterations without approval
Sudane Erato: I agree Aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees as well with Aliasi 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Is there anyone here who believes than an appropriately strict covenant won’t be adequate to preserve the aesthetic and move out merchants if they don’t comply?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It *will* be adequate, yes.
Sudane Erato: I think it would be adequate
Diderot Mirabeau: no … the challenge is perhaps more the other way around .. do we risk detering people from renting a stall if the uncertainty is too great as to what they are allowed to do? Commerce after all favours predictability
Sudane Erato: yes, ture
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm yes
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, diderot, right now, if you rent from a mainland rental outfit, you have no guarantees.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Sudane Erato: but I feel the most predictablity comes with ownership
Diderot Mirabeau: so in any case it’s still an improvement? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say it is, yes.
Flyingroc Chung: it’s an imporvement, because in nburg, you at least have some recourse if you think you’ve been wronged.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, FR.
Aliasi Stonebender: exactly, you can always take it to the courts here.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we preserve the Kaufhaus, even if we make it smaller?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it’s a *real* recourse… not a wishy-washy wishful thinking thingy 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: then certainly it would not need be a deterrance .. on the contrary in fact if we stressed in the covenant that it also protected the rights of the merchant
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course ? and merchants will be Guild members, so they’d be able to influence the covenant directly… and so on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to the Kaufhaus
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: also –we could make it both easier on merchants and easier to stay in coveneant by supplying our own vendors with an established look –our own store decor to choose from, etc –that’s in essence the main purpose of the Chamber of Commerce –
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I understood the Guildhall proposal…
Kendra Bancroft: to facilitate merchants
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … it would be “assimilated” by the Kaufhaus?
Kendra Bancroft: yes, Gwyn
Sudane Erato: which is the Kaufhaus?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather, the Guildhall would assimilate the Kaufhaus… 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –the Guildhall would
Claude Desmoulins: My uderstanding is that the guildhall would assimilate the Warenhaus.
Sudane Erato: the genral store
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: which also frees up the platz for increased commerce
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh, Kaufhaus, Warenhaus…. 🙂
Sudane Erato: the same?
Claude Desmoulins: They’re different.
Claude Desmoulins: Warenhaus – NBurg Home supplies.
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, they are different ? one is for “city souvenirs”, the other for Guild members wishing a vendor. In any case, we’d have more space for shops
Claude Desmoulins: Kaufhaus= Any citizen can put *a* vendor.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: that was in informal arrangement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: it was never determined by act
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But with the Guildhall, it will be “formalized”.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Sudane Erato: I meant the Department Store..
Claude Desmoulins: I think it’s important to keep one platz store where any Gilde member can have 1 vendor, to encourage small scale citizen commerce.
Sudane Erato: the Kaufhaus?
Kendra Bancroft: I agree, Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that abreement 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *agreement
Claude Desmoulins: I propose the following amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack. And I’m sorry, but I have to leave you…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be following the transcript with interest 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: 1) The Biergarten is added to the list of excluded properties. (We can revisit it later if we want)
Sudane Erato: bye Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (bye all!)
Claude Desmoulins: 2) One Store front on the platz proper is held by Die Gilde. Each Gilde member may have one vendor there.
Claude Desmoulins: 3)No kiosks on the platz proper, you have to buy a store.
Claude Desmoulins: BTW, what about the three plots off the Platz extension (Sudane’ – Amulius- Is the third one owned?
Sudane Erato: yes.. Garnet owns it now
Sudane Erato: they should be included.. i think
Flyingroc Chung: can I reserve a store on the platz now?
Sudane Erato: they are included in your zoning map
Flyingroc Chung: 😉
Kendra Bancroft: Oh? Garnet is back?
Sudane Erato: yes!!!
Kendra Bancroft: excellent!!!!!
Claude Desmoulins: But your bill excludes currently held properties, no?
Sudane Erato: i didn’t address it
Sudane Erato: i’m open on that subject…
Sudane Erato: since the three you mention
Sudane Erato: are the only currently held ones
Claude Desmoulins: I read it as doing so. It also grandfathers existing private owners out of the new zone.
Kendra Bancroft: well –I should take out the Steinzeug next to the Biergarten
Claude Desmoulins: Who owns the third one?
Kendra Bancroft: that’s an informal arrangement anyway
Sudane Erato: Garnet
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to grandfather existing owners out of the new zone?
Sudane Erato: i’m not sure I understand what you mean
Claude Desmoulins: Bills says……
Diderot Mirabeau: expropriation?
Sudane Erato: the issue is whether to apply a new covenant toi their deed?
Diderot Mirabeau: ah the other way around
Diderot Mirabeau: exemption
Sudane Erato: right…
Sudane Erato: “not” to apply
Claude Desmoulins: all land surrounding the MarketPlatz? which is not already privately owned…(be sold) and….
Claude Desmoulins: the resulting new parcels be identified as a new zoning district,
Sudane Erato: ahhh… yes
Sudane Erato: the “which is not already…”
Claude Desmoulins: Ergo, existing parcels are not part of the new zone/
Sudane Erato: I’m open about
Sudane Erato: but yes… thats the way it is written
Sudane Erato: sorry… i forgot 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: So, do we want to grandfather Garnet, Amulius and the Gildemeister:)
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m for it.
Kendra Bancroft: I also own land on the platz
Claude Desmoulins: Can I amend my amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: OK, Kendra too
Sudane Erato: well… you don’t really kendra
Kendra Bancroft: yes –I really do
Sudane Erato: that shop is techincally city-owned
Kendra Bancroft: right next to the rathaus
Sudane Erato: oh!
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: the corner
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll be moving the Steinzeug to that corner
Sudane Erato: sorry… my brain is frying
Sudane Erato: yes… great!
Claude Desmoulins: 4) At such time as a current owner sells his or her Platz land, it will enter the new zone.
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on the amendment?
Sudane Erato: i think all 4 are fine
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment say aye.
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Now on to the bill itself, further discussion
Claude Desmoulins: Am I correct that the aesthetic and financial details of the new covenant are at Gilde discretion?
Kendra Bancroft: yes
Sudane Erato: well… we will certaimnly write them
Claude Desmoulins: Other questions or discusiion?
Sudane Erato: the other entities can determine if they need to pass on them
Claude Desmoulins: I’m sure the RA would like a consult, but I dont’ think we need to approve them.
Sudane Erato: thats fine…. lets just see what they contain…
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to vote now, or go seven day?
Sudane Erato: and if theres any bneed for discussion… we can have it
Claude Desmoulins: The bills says there are aesthetic and financial requirements, but doesn’t specify them.
Sudane Erato: no
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m fine with voting now, but if the others need to hash it out more…
Sudane Erato: the exact wording of the covenent awaiting this decision
Sudane Erato: awaited
Kendra Bancroft: My vote won’t change after any discussion
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Is there anyone who has serious problems with the bill as it now stands?
Flyingroc Chung: not me
Aliasi Stonebender: not I.
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra?
Claude Desmoulins: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: not me neither
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote then.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor say aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Flyingroc Chung: whew
Sudane Erato: great!
Claude Desmoulins: Next, back to Guidhall.
Sudane Erato: this could be one of our most important actions
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn had prim issues.
Kendra Bancroft: As I’ve said –prim usage is minimal on this
Claude Desmoulins: Did someone get to address those?
Kendra Bancroft: we want huge space to build in
Kendra Bancroft: so prims would be intentionally low
Sudane Erato: the alternate presented is the Schloss
Sudane Erato: and I just feel theres no comparison
Sudane Erato: the underground is far superior\
Kendra Bancroft: The schloss is comletely wrong for the Guildhall
Sudane Erato: yes!
Claude Desmoulins: What were the thoughts about the SC going to the Schloss?
Kendra Bancroft: Yes
Flyingroc Chung: if the point is to ahve a sandbox, under the platz has much more space.
Sudane Erato: that would be great
Kendra Bancroft: Schloss for SC is right
Kendra Bancroft: and I’ll finish the job that Ulrika has already paid me for
Claude Desmoulins: Amendment =
Sudane Erato: the Schloss should be oru ceremonial location
Kendra Bancroft: but re-tool it as more of an SC build
Sudane Erato: and a grand ball room
Sudane Erato: and tourist trap
Claude Desmoulins: The Scientific council will take over management and use of the Neualtenburg Schloss.
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –But I’d like to be the one to finish the job
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: I’ve already been paid to
Claude Desmoulins: If the city is going to eat that revenue, let’s use the space.
Claude Desmoulins: …at such point as the builder declares the schloss ready for occupancy .:)
Sudane Erato: great
Claude Desmoulins: all in favor of the amendment.
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll make it a priority to finish it before the great Platz makeover gets underway
Diderot Mirabeau: there could be a great opening ball 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes!
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Sudane Erato: I like balls
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Flyingroc Chung: hah, I read that wrong.
Kendra Bancroft: \we should do Eugene’s award ceremony idea there
Sudane Erato: tsk!
Sudane Erato: yes… the awards
Claude Desmoulins: further discussion on the bill?
Flyingroc Chung: the approved bills are going to the wiki, right?
Claude Desmoulins: As soon as I can get the amended versions typed up from the transcripts/
Flyingroc Chung: cool
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the bill…
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: aye aye aye
Sudane Erato: bravo!
Claude Desmoulins: Now back to the school.
Kendra Bancroft: is this a progressive RA or what?
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra and I are both trustees.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Therefore we need everyones else here to have a quorum on the issue.
Claude Desmoulins: *everyone.
Kendra Bancroft: and our symbol will be flyingroc’s chimp avatar with a mortarboard?
Flyingroc Chung: hahaha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I think people are OK with governance.
Claude Desmoulins: The issue is, is there a citizen tuition discount?
Claude Desmoulins: or is there a scholarship fund?
Sudane Erato: Claude, I feel that should be moved to be a city budget issue
Flyingroc Chung: if the school goes private, it’s up to the school.
Kendra Bancroft: and also where do we put it? I’d love to have a small campus similar to what I set up for us at SLCC
Flyingroc Chung: I mean, the tuition discount will be up to the school, if it goes completely private.
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s in the bill, isn’t it kendra?
Claude Desmoulins: Or is this wholly private, in which case, the city, shoud, IMO not have a seat on the board.
Kendra Bancroft: I’ve been on my back with the flu –haven’t read much
Aliasi Stonebender: oh, right. forgot.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we need RA approval to do the land transfer to the Trustees?
Sudane Erato: i don’t think so
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t think so –this is like any private sale
Aliasi Stonebender: if it’s private, it’s no different than any other sale.
Sudane Erato: only that we haven’t defined the citizenship rights of the “trustees”
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s go that far, start it as a private.
Sudane Erato: right
Sudane Erato: the land trasnfer is normal
Sudane Erato: yes.
Claude Desmoulins: If the trustees are all citizens otherwise, no problem.
Sudane Erato: sure
Claude Desmoulins: Whose lot /area limits does this count against.?
Sudane Erato: none… only the school
Sudane Erato: since the Shool group is not equated with the individuals
Kendra Bancroft: the only problem I can see –is if I’m a trustee does this matter as between Altenburg and the Eisbahn , I’m at max my land tally
Claude Desmoulins: OK. We’ll let the RA hash out other stuff later.
Claude Desmoulins: I have enough meters, just not enough plots. If we need to we can account by having one person buy one plot and another person another,
Sudane Erato: no no
Sudane Erato: I think this is entirely outside the individual limitations
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: Gilde has spoken.
Sudane Erato: it makes sense to me
Claude Desmoulins: I move we adjourn.
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections?
Sudane Erato: none by me 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: The siren song of Nyquil beckons me
Diderot Mirabeau: nope
Claude Desmoulins: Adjourned.
The meeting closed at 17:51 Linden time.RA Meeting: February 08, 2006
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (gwyn is outside 😉 )
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra is busy this evening.
Claude Desmoulins: First I’d like to welcome Flyingroc Chung to the RA.
Sudane Erato: yay!!
Sudane Erato: bravo!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *claps*
Flyingroc Chung: thanks!
Claude Desmoulins: He’s filling the MPP seat vacated by Pendari Lorentz
Flyingroc Chung: yay MPP!
Gwyneth Llewelyn wished I could see some seats 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender refrains from the obvious “you down with MPP, yeah you know me” quip.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, hi Lucifer!
Lucifer Baphomet: hi gwynethhello gwyneth
Lucifer Baphomet: oops
Lucifer Baphomet: lol
Claude Desmoulins: BRB,RL.
Aliasi Stonebender: on to biz?
Flyingroc Chung: ack!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: bleh.
Flyingroc Chung: read latest post on forums pls
Flyingroc Chung: pen had a change of heart of some sort
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For the best?
Flyingroc Chung: hm, seems she is still elaving, but coming back in august?
Aliasi Stonebender: well, she’s not going to just up and leave, she’s going to tier down and give herself a “cooling off” period.
Lucifer Baphomet: this is my partner gwyneth
Lucifer Baphomet: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome, Lucifer’s partner 🙂
Lyarna Kraken: hello 😉
Flyingroc Chung: what I am unclear with is whether I can vote here today, or not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And well, I’m glad to know about Pen, FR.
Aliasi Stonebender: I believe you can, FR.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Flyingroc Chung: ok, just want that to be clear
Aliasi Stonebender: well, as soon as claude gets back, we can get on to this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry.
Claude Desmoulins: Does everyone have all the documents?
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane. What’s the status on the notary?
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Sudane Erato: I have been in touch a few times with Zarf
Sudane Erato: but we have not yet met to go over the details
Sudane Erato: so…. pending…. any day now
Claude Desmoulins: Any questions?
Diderot Mirabeau starts to nod off
Claude Desmoulins: Website. FR and I are working on a database spec. I’m willing to do it volunteer. Where can we put it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Diderot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the Wiki?
Flyingroc Chung: wiki probably the best place
Multi Gadget v1.35.0 by Timeless Prototype
Radar Shades: System is keyed to Farfletched Ixchel
Claude Desmoulins: I was meaning the actual database/
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, and I’m willing to give you all access…. when I can figure out how the heck to do it.
Flyingroc Chung: oh, hm
Claude Desmoulins: OK. We’ll put the draft on the wiki.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, this is a database for exactly what?
Sudane Erato: hehe… that was my question’
Claude Desmoulins: Managing the census/land list/accounts when we get that far.
Flyingroc Chung: information about users, government officials, land, zoning, and transactions
Sudane Erato: great
Claude Desmoulins: There’s stuff about hosting in the budget discussion.
Flyingroc Chung: I see a $20/month on the proposed budget for website hosting…
Claude Desmoulins: Please look at the draft budget.
Flyingroc Chung: that is a bit steep, is it not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Claude Desmoulins: Is that enough. I would assume we won’t chew through that much bandwidth.
Aliasi Stonebender: Depends. My current webplan is 500 GB of transfer a month for nine bucks.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Current web stats: http://neualtenburg.info/webstat/
Aliasi Stonebender: if we aren’t lavish on graphics, I don’t think we’d chew through that.
Claude Desmoulins: I figured we could do it for $10-15. I like to be conservative when I budget 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: my current website, I pay $80 a year
Claude Desmoulins: Well the draft budget is just that,. a draft.
Flyingroc Chung: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Comments?
Flyingroc Chung: the website would be handled by the guild, right?
Flyingroc Chung: I mean maintenance for it
Claude Desmoulins: Seems logical.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds reasonable to me 🙂
Object: Sit here.
Sudane Erato: sounds reasonable to me… so long as we have web-capable guild members 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: we have a few, I think. hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we have that covered 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe… I’m sure
Claude Desmoulins: What about paying those who do city services?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should there be a list of those first?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or will it be basically a “fund”….
Claude Desmoulins: Probably need a list.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. paying as we go along
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Claude Desmoulins: Treasurer/web maintainer/ what else?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could suggest first something for the RA to consider… let the Guild get the US$20/month for the website
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if they can get it cheaper, the rest is for maintenance costs 😉
Sudane Erato: sorry afk
Claude Desmoulins: I like that idea.
Aliasi Stonebender: sounds good to me.
Flyingroc Chung: sounds good to me too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The treasurer should definitely get something too, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: you’re treating the guild as a separate budget…
Sudane Erato: that might technically be the case
Sudane Erato: but… at the moment…
Sudane Erato: it might be better to see these are straight expenditures, reported in the normal way
Claude Desmoulins: Can we table this until we finish with the bills that have an impact on it?
Sudane Erato: like the web cost for hosting
Sudane Erato: good
Claude Desmoulins: I’m in agreement wiht SUdane. The Guilds should be like any other vendor to the city.
Claude Desmoulins: Now on to legislation.
Claude Desmoulins: Please start with 4-8 Land sales reporting.
Claude Desmoulins: Since we have a land transfer tax on the books, this should be happening anyway, but I don’t think it is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Q: land transfer tax ? what is it and how is it charged?
Claude Desmoulins: All this does is formalize the requirement.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane?
Sudane Erato: there is a land xfer tax on every deed
Sudane Erato: the tax on sales from city to resident is 0
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: then from resident to resident is actually something
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The one that also will cover future costs of using Nota Bene, right?
Sudane Erato: that has happened so little I have not imposed it
Sudane Erato: ahhh..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What a benevolent Treasurer 🙂
Sudane Erato: that would have to apply to all transfers
Claude Desmoulins: I would think that would be a good use of those funds.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right. My question is answered 8for the record) 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: In any case, we should go ahead and formalize what’s already practice.
Flyingroc Chung: looks like 10% if transferred from citizen to citizen and 20% from citizen to city? this is from the website
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is the website accurate? 😉
Sudane Erato: yes,, and citizern to city makes not a lot of sense
Sudane Erato: yes
Flyingroc Chung: hm I can try retrieving my original deed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
Sudane Erato: it should be there too
Sudane Erato: but…
Sudane Erato: this bill does not mention the transfer tax
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … that any such transfer of all or parts of the property to which this deed applies may be subject to a Property Transfer Tax in such amounts as to be determined by the Representative Assembly
Sudane Erato: or am I looking at the wrong one?
Aliasi Stonebender: 4-8 only mentions it in the explanitory section.
Sudane Erato: ahh… isee
Claude Desmoulins: Mine says 10% citizen to citizen and 20% citizen to city.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Sudane Erato: they all do
Flyingroc Chung: my deed says the same
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to drop the citizen-city tax?
Aliasi Stonebender: anyway, I think the case of the citizen to city tax, is if someone wishes to get out of Neualtenburg, the City more or less has to buy it, after all.
Sudane Erato: yes…. the city would not buy from a citizen, unless the city initiated a special action
Aliasi Stonebender: or, that was probaly the original thought.
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t think it makes sense now.
Flyingroc Chung: actually, I’m in favor of the citizen-city tax,itgives the citizen incentive to look for a different buyer
Claude Desmoulins: Most of the lots that have gone back to the city have gone back at no cost, right?
Sudane Erato: no, beacuse a citizen just leaves, and abandons it
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: it has happened frequently
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, I figured it was more a matter of “find someone else to buy it, or abandon the plot”… but we can handle the transfer tax at another time.
Claude Desmoulins: So the citizen pays extra if he/she insists thar city buy back his/her land.
Aliasi Stonebender: what about THIS bill?
Sudane Erato: no… the city should not be in the regular business of buying back lots
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we vote on it w/o amendment then?
Sudane Erato: I feel
Flyingroc Chung: this bill sound reasonable, unless it puts undue burden on the tresurer
Sudane Erato: and… in additon… remember my post…
Aliasi Stonebender: The treasurer already has to collect this information, by and large.,
Sudane Erato: the city already has all this info except the price
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: need to do the transfer
Sudane Erato: needed
Aliasi Stonebender: I say let’s get to the vote.
Claude Desmoulins: We want that price info to base our land fees on anyway.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor….
Sudane Erato: yes… that part is good
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Oh, didn’t we skip the vote on Dianne?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Claude Desmoulins: Yes we did, sorry.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for remembering it, Aliasi 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on this?
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t believe any is needed; it’s all been pretty public.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Claude Desmoulins: You’ve got that right:)
Aliasi Stonebender: shall we, then?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Ayue
Flyingroc Chung: ayup
Claude Desmoulins: There, Gwyn is no longer alone 🙂
Sudane Erato: yay!!!
Flyingroc Chung: maybe for later we can consider some sort of formal procedure for the RA to familiarize themselves with the SC candidate?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!
Sudane Erato: Dianne’s not on-line now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘familiarize’ hmm…. a round of pints at the pub? 😉
Sudane Erato: haha
Flyingroc Chung: yeah, that sort of thing
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll get there, probably tonight.
Flyingroc Chung: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: good pint!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Aliasi Stonebender: We could, yes. A counterpoint to Dianne’s notice that she doesn’t have to answer questions, is the RA doesn’t /have/ to say yes, either.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course.
Claude Desmoulins: Next – Bill 4-7 : RA term of office.
Aliasi Stonebender: and while we’re all aware of Dianne’s stand on things… for other candiates I might not want to vote yes without being able to ask something.
Diderot Mirabeau: uhuuuh
Claude Desmoulins: I couldn’t find any documentary history on this. Pen was supposed to send me something.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean publicly, Aliasi? (just for the record)
Aliasi Stonebender: publicly or privately, Gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, privately is something entirely different!
Aliasi Stonebender: the key point is I’d want to KNOW.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s discuss this when we get to 4-10, which I’ll move up above the consitutional amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Public means the Q&A goes on record, and is posted publicly on the forums or elsewhere; private just means it’s an off-the-record thingy with more or less formalism.
Aliasi Stonebender: As for 4-7… I have observed we’ve got a poor definition of term lengths and such, yes.
Flyingroc Chung: coming from an academic backgroun, I think dynamics ofbeing asked questions by a panel of people can bring to light some issues that may not come out in private one-on-one discussions
Aliasi Stonebender: that is true enough.
Claude Desmoulins: About six months for RA seems to be the practice.
Sudane Erato: early on there was a semi decision that the term length should be short… 3 months
Sudane Erato: this makes much more sense
Claude Desmoulins: The original proposal was 2 months which was at the time 1/2 the lease.
Aliasi Stonebender: 3 or 6 months, Sudane?
Sudane Erato: 6 months makes more sense to me
Aliasi Stonebender: ah.
Flyingroc Chung: how long was the last RA’s term?
Claude Desmoulins: This also sets unifor election dates.
Claude Desmoulins: *uniform
Sudane Erato: since early August
Aliasi Stonebender: I think it does too. Even if it does mean it’ll be a bit over 5 months before I can tell y’all to go shove off properly. 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Flyingroc Chung: 6 months seems like a good term length
Claude Desmoulins: This also sets a firm deadline for the new election system, which I left out of the draft budget.
Sudane Erato: ahhh… yes
Claude Desmoulins: Does the RA tem eventually need to be written into the constitution?
Claude Desmoulins: *term
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, originally, the idea was “no”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It should be just a law.
Diderot Mirabeau: I don’t mean to argue against you on this .. I am just wondering .. with the current attrition rate of citizens and RA members will the faction’s list of supplementary candidates be able to hold out for six months?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because as we grow/shrink, terms should be longer/shorter
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, good point, Diderot, yes
Sudane Erato: good point Diderot… but the last one did
Flyingroc Chung: well if it is not written into the constitution, there is a danger that the RA can define say, 900 years s their term. But I suppose the SC will ahve something to say about *that*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Sudane 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes FR
Sudane Erato: hehe… Roc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We certainly will 🙂
Sudane Erato: I’ll be here for 900 years!
Aliasi Stonebender: Indeed, FR. 900 year terms is not exactly a democratic assembly keeping in touch with the current populace. 😉
Sudane Erato: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: so… vote?
Sudane Erato: well… I suggest it be considered at least as a constitutional thing…
Sudane Erato: before it is finalized as a law only
Claude Desmoulins: Right. I’m troubled by the RA setting its own term length.
Sudane Erato: but it ceratinly be voted on as the sense of the RA
Flyingroc Chung: Well, I think for pragmatic reasons, like gwyn points out…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only if the RA is not ‘controlled’ by the SC on this 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: even as a constitutional amendment, the RA will be setting it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: the only difference is more people have to vote for it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yep!
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: I think relying on the SC to smack the RA’s hand is a better solution.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Flyingroc Chung: yeah, those bums at the Sc need to work also
Claude Desmoulins: So, law or amendment?
Sudane Erato: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: unless the SC thinks it needs to be an amendment, I saypass it as a law.
Sudane Erato: i suggest it be discussed inthe forum… like the other constitutional issues
Flyingroc Chung: we have enough people to vote it into law…
Claude Desmoulins: Thoughts from the dean?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC can’t go against the current constitution, which says it should be a law 😉
Flyingroc Chung: actually…. gwyn…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, it’s up to you to change the constitution if you prefer (I wouldn’t, but that’s up to you)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, FR?
Flyingroc Chung: ” Members of the Philosophic branch are not bound by a strict literal interpretation of the Bill of Rights, Founding Philosophy, Constitution, or the strict adherence to legal precedence.”
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s start with a law, we can ask the amendment question later.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, LOL ? of course, FR, I was just employing rhetorics 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Pen!!!
Sudane Erato: Pen!!!!
Sudane Erato: yay!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awwwwwww
Gwyneth Llewelyn: PEN!!!!!!
Flyingroc Chung: hey pen
Diderot Mirabeau: good evening Pen .. what a nice surprise 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn hugs Pen
Pendari Lorentz: the constitution comes first.. always =)
Sudane Erato: haha
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: only two more and i’ts a full house
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on the subtance of the bill?
Pendari Lorentz: hello everyone.. forgive my presense.. I figure I need to help with my position being turned to another?
Lucifer Baphomet: fletch and i are merely observers
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve said all I figure that needs to be said.
Lucifer Baphomet: you have 4 seats
Pendari Lorentz: what is the discussion about?
Claude Desmoulins: RA Term of office.
Pendari Lorentz: ahhh.. yes.. that was kept open due to how small Neualt is.. was hard to find anyone that would last a year.. hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Bills and agenda in the document box.
Flyingroc Chung: Hm, this is rather awkward, I’ve filled in for you on voting on the other bills, Pen.
Aliasi Stonebender: well, pend, we’re looking to formalize it as a law.
Pendari Lorentz: N
Pendari Lorentz: EEK! notecard spam
Pendari Lorentz: may I politely offer a suggestion
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: There’s a busy agenda.
Aliasi Stonebender: of course. Yer still a Nburger, after all.
Pendari Lorentz: Claude.. I used to put the extrra notecards inside the agend notecard.. that way you only had to get One notecard and then open the others.. helped with things =)
Claude Desmoulins: Someone will have to show me how to do that.
Pendari Lorentz: It took me a while to realize that helped.. haha
Aliasi Stonebender: you just drag and drop, Claude.
Sudane Erato: it was great! Pen
Flyingroc Chung: just drag from inv to notecard.
Pendari Lorentz: Here Claude.. let me give you an old agenda as a sample =)
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the mean time… may I just suggest something else… I feel that things that can be set by passing a law do not really need a constitutional amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we base our legislation on ‘precedents’
Aliasi Stonebender: yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This would mean that for every tiny little bit, people would be changing the Constitution every time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But then again, as said before, that’s up for the RA to discuss 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: The constitution should only have overarching structural concerns; i.e., actually establishing we have 3 branches and their duties, etc.
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, would you be willing to open a forum thread on what needs to be in the constitution?
Pendari Lorentz: Ok.. at this point I’m intruding.. I agree with Gwyn on just about everything even though she is SDF.. haha.. Ya’ll let me know how we want to do the changing of my position.. should be Flyingroc or Satchmo as far as MPP members go.. but each has a
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What ‘needs’ to be… lol
Sudane Erato: isn’t customarrily the term length in the constitution?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sure, I’ll think a bit over the weekend…
Pendari Lorentz: reason to not be able to hold the position
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Sudane, it depends
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Pen, yes, we’ll have FR 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Yeah, Sudane, but I don’t recall any place where it’s custom to establish a trade union in the constitution, so… *shrug*
Claude Desmoulins: I guess I feel it’s very important, if we take democracy seriously, that citizens know when the next electyion is.
Sudane Erato: lol
Claude Desmoulins: Always.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe indeed Aliasi. Or a Constitution without an Executive body. Etc and so on.
Pendari Lorentz: I need to leave before anyone spots me.. this will be my last week on.. you all email me.. I’m listening! and Sudane, I’ll contact you about the 6 month up front deed charges.. want to square that away
Pendari Lorentz: *hugs* ya’ll!
Pendari Lorentz: *wave*
Sudane Erato: great!! bye Pen
Flyingroc Chung: bye pen, good luck.
Claude Desmoulins: Bye.
Diderot Mirabeau: bye Pen … all the best
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww thanks for staying with us for this few minutes, Pen!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops there she goes
Claude Desmoulins: I think it’s something to look at in more depth.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Claude ? you could also pass a bill that on the first session of a newly elected RA; the next date for elections has to be set.
Flyingroc Chung: I’d rather vote on the bill now, and then talk about an amendment, if it is necessary
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Aliasi Stonebender: I agree.
Aliasi Stonebender: we should have SOMETHING formal, we can always change it.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of 4-7
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Next, 4-6 setting land fees for the zone we voted on last week.
Claude Desmoulins: I proposed twice the within the walls land fee, but it was meant as as a start point.
Claude Desmoulins: Anyone have any idea what the market will bear?
Sudane Erato: i don’t…. that that is my only issue with it
Aliasi Stonebender: No clue.
Sudane Erato: we probably have to start somewhere… but that may be a bit steep
Sudane Erato: perhaps a 33% increase over City fees
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What are the current rates? (faster to ask than to search for it)
Flyingroc Chung: hm, let me pass around a recent notecard for rental in a private sim I hang around in…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 33%, hmm
Claude Desmoulins: .0078 in town
Sudane Erato: current rates are .0077/m2
Sudane Erato: US$
Claude Desmoulins: oops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh
Sudane Erato: oh… same
Sudane Erato: when the sim was originally bought… we wanted the fees to stay competitive with all of SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you FR 🙂
Sudane Erato: with the mainland
Sudane Erato: and ownership fees are not dependednt on location, when you pay LL
Sudane Erato: so…
Sudane Erato: we run some risk… not knowing the commercial potential
Sudane Erato: of being too high
Sudane Erato: once the potential is established… THEN we have value
Aliasi Stonebender: they aren’t, but you DO pay varying amounts for land to people, Sudane.
Aliasi Stonebender: I mean, mature waterfront sells for more than, say, PG cliff.
Sudane Erato: for rental perhaps
Sudane Erato: or on other private sims
Sudane Erato: sells!!
Sudane Erato: not monthly fee
Aliasi Stonebender: true.
Sudane Erato: fee is far more significant
Claude Desmoulins: We don’t want to put it too high, but if we don’t charge some premium we send the message that the slots aren’t valuable.
Flyingroc Chung: platz space needs to have a premium
Sudane Erato: I agree Cl;aude
Claude Desmoulins: They are all line of sight to a telehub 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: I think Sudane’s suggestion of a 33% increase is reasonable.
Sudane Erato: remember… the deed says we can always change it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve been silent, because I think it’s worth the risk. Rentals on busy malls are higher than this.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so N’burg is not ‘a busy mall’…. yet
Claude Desmoulins: What figure would that give us? or do we want to change it to 133% of the base in city rate.
Sudane Erato: this is not yet a busy spot
Aliasi Stonebender: I wouldn’t mind it being busy, being a mall I could live without. Just a few shops, plz.
Claude Desmoulins: If we amend to a percentage of the base, we index it automatically.
Sudane Erato: true
Sudane Erato: but we need experience to see how things shape up
Flyingroc Chung: surely we want the platz value to move higher more quickly than the base city rate?
Sudane Erato: in this case… we may want… but its the “market” which determines
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d say just set a set rate of 133% of current city rate; we can change it later if need be, and if it’s a bit low to start with, it’ll just help attract.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Sudane Erato: exactly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All very reasonable 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll take that as an amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (can I buy one plot thgere now??? Please? 🙂 )
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on the amendment?
Sudane Erato: hehe..
Claude Desmoulins: As soon as the Guild finishes the covenant details and the SC approves the various bills.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is patient.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have been waiting for 15 months now 🙂
Sudane Erato: tsk!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Claude Desmoulins: Hearing no further discussion. All infavor of the amendment…
Flyingroc Chung: hm, I have an ethics question here… I would dearly love to buy a spot at the platz…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha FR!
Sudane Erato: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: well, I might too.
Sudane Erato: conflict of interest!! 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: See, the point seems to be… we’ll all be happy to fight for available spots there 😉
Claude Desmoulins: If everyone recuses we have no quorum. 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: We can all have a death chainsaw match in the Thunderdome afterwards.
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn kicks the sleeping RA members under the table.
Lucifer Baphomet: lol
Flyingroc Chung: I guess I can vote aye, provided we can find a fair way for all citizens to have a chance at getting the spot
Aliasi Stonebender: aye here.
Claude Desmoulins: Since you’ve publicly declared your interest….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. We can trust the fairness of the Guild 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Aye/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (meaning: an auction? 🙂 )
Claude Desmoulins: New bill – not on original agenda.
Flyingroc Chung: auction, or lottery, or something else
Flyingroc Chung: anyway, I vote aye
Claude Desmoulins: 4-11 The guild is authorized to develop a mechanism for the allocation of CCD lots;
Claude Desmoulins: Or do you have that power already?
Sudane Erato: I’m sure that will involve publishing the plan to ourselves and giving current citizens first choice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, not explicitly.
Sudane Erato: after all, anyone else would have to join anyway
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it falls in the ‘spirit’ of the Guild’s powers, aye.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Still, it never hurts to approve it as a law, methinks.
Sudane Erato: I am happy to consult with everyone regarding the mechnaism 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aliasi’s dice throwing mechanism works great…. 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe… belive me… I don;t think theres THAT much interest
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or paper-stone-scissors (since we *have* the anims for that as Linden defaults ? and you all know how much I love anims!)
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, 4-11 approved!
Claude Desmoulins: 4-9 Reserve Account.
Claude Desmoulins: This has been hashed out in the forums. I did modify the bill to address Frank Lardner’s concerns.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: I would further suggest a cap of 2 months city expenses
Sudane Erato: unless the accounts are interest bearing
Claude Desmoulins: That’s an amendment. I have no problem with it.
Aliasi Stonebender: Two months seems good to me.
Aliasi Stonebender: three months is a bit much to just hold on.
Flyingroc Chung: yes, two months sounds mroe reasonable
Sudane Erato: yes… with no interest
Aliasi Stonebender: if we can’t correct any income troubles in two, something is seriously wrong.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All Guild suggestions on budget-related things are welcome 😉 (since the Guild has a veto on them hehe)
Claude Desmoulins: The question is, if we have a mass exodus and end up where there are three oe four people left, How much time do thay need?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And i agree, Aliasi!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack, Claude!
Sudane Erato: we…. sounds familiar 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *knocks on wood*
Claude Desmoulins: That’s why I’m asking .
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm, it happened before, lol
Sudane Erato: the month or two will do, I feel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, I also think so.
Sudane Erato: theat will give us the time to reassess
Object: Sit here.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the two month amendment.
Flyingroc Chung: yes
Claude Desmoulins: yes
Flyingroc Chung: er, I vote yes
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Great 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion of the bill ?
Flyingroc Chung: the transcripts dont record the pauses. I think something gets lost that way.
Aliasi Stonebender: none here.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of 4-9?
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe FR 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (we could ask Eloise to put timestamps on the transcript device, so that we would get the ‘pauses’ 🙂 )
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next bill?
Claude Desmoulins: Now the tricky stuff. I’d like to move to 4-10
Flyingroc Chung: Is frank an nburg citizen already, btw?
Aliasi Stonebender: we can’t decide on the amendment, anyway.
Sudane Erato: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet, FR ? we’re working on it 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, I did drop a mod warning on all involved to cool down a bit.
Sudane Erato: I’m doing my best to antagonize heim 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, I did the best I could to turn it into bill language.
Aliasi Stonebender: (re: the reserve bill thread)
Claude Desmoulins: I had let it drop by that point 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: so, the amendment I think we’ll have to table to 7-day discussion and vote.
Claude Desmoulins: Now 4-10. I think this needs amendment.
Aliasi Stonebender: 4-10, on the other hand…
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s do 4-10.
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s where we as the RA lay out what we want the process to look like.
Lyarna Kraken: hello again 🙂
Lucifer Baphomet: wb love
Lyarna Kraken: smiles
Claude Desmoulins: We’ve established that there ought be no compulsion to make a public appearance before the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Claude Desmoulins puts on my negotiator hat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: If the SC wants a hard deadline. What are they willing to give for it 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: Well, can the RA “invite” the potential SC candidate for a friendly discussion on constitutional issues?
Aliasi Stonebender: I think that’s reasonable.
Aliasi Stonebender: As Gwyn says, that’s more of a “backdoor politics” thing that I don’t think needs to be formalized.
Claude Desmoulins: What about a written question option?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, I would oppose too much ‘formalization’.
Claude Desmoulins: But we have a bill here that obligates the RA to a timetable. That’s not backdoor.
Aliasi Stonebender: The RA can ask the candidate to come to a public discussion/forum thread, the candidate can refuse, the RA can vote yea or nay as they please.
Claude Desmoulins: It’s also quite formal:)
Aliasi Stonebender: ah, claude
Aliasi Stonebender: but this doesn’t say anything about the necessity of a discussion.
Aliasi Stonebender: it just prevents a “filibuster”.
Flyingroc Chung: maybe a week is too short
Claude Desmoulins: Could we at least stretch it out to 14 or 21 days.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or even a month.,
Aliasi Stonebender: I agree a week is a bit too soon. two weks fo rthis crowd seems more likely.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: We are always on the verge of not having a quorum here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My first suggestion was 48 hours, LOL, then I though I was being crazy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, to be honest…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: something like “on the next RA meeting”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: should work out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since according to the Constitution the RA has to meet once a month…
Flyingroc Chung: well on the next RA meeting might not work, if there isnt a quorum…
Aliasi Stonebender: hm, but then, Gwyn, the SC could nominate the day before a meeting, doesn’t give much time for discussion, if such is desired.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And currently there are even 4 meetings a month….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Aliasi Stonebender: and yes, without a quorum…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, good point, Aliasi. Agred.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we prefer next RA meeting or a certain number of days?
Claude Desmoulins: How about 30 days?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I withdraw my suggestion.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 30 days, fine.
Flyingroc Chung: sounds reasonable… the SC inst exactly swamped with work…
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, that would effectively give a nice “30 days or next suitable RA meeting” as a practical outcome./
Claude Desmoulins: Can we also clarify as exactly when the clock starts?
Aliasi Stonebender: I would think it would be at the SC meeting the vote to nominate is held.
Claude Desmoulins: I would prefer the Dean make a formal notification of the nomination to the LRA via IM/PM or email.
Claude Desmoulins: I still haven’t gotten around to reading the last SC minutes :0
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha well they’re long, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: yeah I knew I should have kept quiet 😛
Aliasi Stonebender: I haven’t read them and I was there. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok, I can agree with that, Claude. Seems peaceful enough.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we view those as friendly amendments?
Claude Desmoulins: The way I read it the amendment says:—–
Claude Desmoulins: change “within one week of its announcement ”
Claude Desmoulins: …to…
Claude Desmoulins: “Witrhin 30 days of the SC Dean’s communicating notice of the nomination to the LRA”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 30 days
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment….
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no objections here hehe)
Claude Desmoulins: aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion on the bill?
Flyingroc Chung: not here
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Now we can’t vote on the amendment, but I’d like to discuss for a few minutes.
Claude Desmoulins: I really liked Justice Soothsayer’s suggestion that the SC functions as an upper house like the House of Lordsa or the French Senate.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I liked the concept
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Still, for the record (since it’s all on the threads)
Claude Desmoulins: But if the SC is part of the legislative branch it needs to meet as often as we do, IMO
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My opinion is that too much emphasis on the “SC as co-helping legislative processes”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that is mostly due to the wording on the bit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that says that “the SC can veto a bill, and resubmit it to modification to teh RA for approval”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *any* citizen can submit a bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *any* citizen can propose modifications for the RA for approval
Aliasi Stonebender: so that should really just say “the SC can veto”, full stop?
Sudane Erato: with an opinion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We even have somewhere written that the RA cannot *refuse* to accept a bill, *if* it meets the proper procedures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Aliasi.
Claude Desmoulins: Here are my issues….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, in my opinion, well, it’s just bad wording which somehow gave rise to the concept that the SC has any sor of “authority” over the legislative process. It has as much, or as less, as any other citizen.
Flyingroc Chung: I thhink what the amendment is trying to say is that the SC does not have pro-active veto powers, rather, it only acts when a citizen brings up constitutional problems with any law?
Claude Desmoulins: 1) As presently worded, the SC must affirmatively ratify any RA bill before it goes in to effect.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, I also think that amendment is poorly worded, FR
Claude Desmoulins: If the SC is quasi legislative, like a House of Lords, that’s OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no intention of offending you, Claude!!!)
Aliasi Stonebender: yesh, because, again… the SC are citizens, too.
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, Claude
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s not a legislative deal
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s more like a presidential veto in the US.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yep.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Aliasi Stonebender: however
Aliasi Stonebender: in the US, Congress can override a presidential veto, which isn’t present here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, we have discussed that for quite a bit in the past….
Claude Desmoulins: Right that’s issue two.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: May I suggest something else… that on 1) we have the opposite: a law goes into effect if, one week (or some set time) after the RA having approved it, the SC does NOT veto.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the SC would only be ‘active’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if they felt the need for it.
Claude Desmoulins: The plain fact is, especially since the SC can veto constitutional amendments, it is in fact the final unappealable authority
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
Claude Desmoulins: That makes them more of a judiciary, which is I think how most perceive them.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye.
Diderot Mirabeau: I agree
Claude Desmoulins: I want to pull the amendment and resubmit, anyway.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The ‘judiciary’ is a more in line with the original thoughts about the SC
Claude Desmoulins: But the SC veto of constitutional amendments is something we really need to think about.
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, although – as I posted in the forums – I think the SC’s emphasis is somewhat less on “interpreting” and more on “advising”.
Claude Desmoulins: What I’d like to see is the SC to lose the amendment veto power in exchange for amendments having to pass a citizen referendum.
Flyingroc Chung: i like that
Claude Desmoulins: I’d also like to do that at the end of the consitutional clean up process, else this will take for_ever
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No way, Claude ? we’re not a base democracy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But a representative democracy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Republic of Neualtenburg” 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Ok. If we were to pull the SC veto of constitutional changes….
Flyingroc Chung: a referendum on the founding documents seems reasonable.
Aliasi Stonebender: On the other hand Gwyn, he has a point… and once we get the Constitution together as a solid document, I’d like amendments ot be a very difficult thing to pass.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m all for the emphasis on ‘advising’ instead of ‘interpreting’, of course.
Aliasi Stonebender: not impossible, but you should have to think about it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t even have the figure of a referendum in the constitution….
Diderot Mirabeau: this may not be the time for anecdotal evidence … but in the RL representational democracy where I’m based a referendum is required before passing constitutional amendments
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Claude Desmoulins: Regardless of whether we’re a republic, we’re not a democracy if the citizenry or those directly accountable to it aren’t the final autjority.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let’s do the following:
Claude Desmoulins: *authority
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) introduce the figure of the referendum in the Constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: subject to *several* restrictions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: like, 6 months to do the same referendum again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one referendum per RA term
Gwyneth Llewelyn: max
Gwyneth Llewelyn: needs more than 50% voters
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and of those, a majority has to approve
Gwyneth Llewelyn: With that in place, the referendum system is not easily ‘abused’
Claude Desmoulins: I was going to suggest requiring yes votes from simple majority of all citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, ‘all’ is hard, since they might never vote
Claude Desmoulins: Not just those voting.
Diderot Mirabeau: makes sense to me .. or else in the worst caste the whole democratic process could risk being mired in constant referendums
Diderot Mirabeau: *case
Claude Desmoulins: For example. If we did one…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, well, it could be a 2/3 majority of all citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Diderot, that’s what I fear ? and moving towards a base democracy instead of a representative one.
Diderot Mirabeau: of all citizens or of all those passing vote?
Flyingroc Chung: well the idea is only have referendums on consti amendments, right?
Aliasi Stonebender: so, if multiple amendments were proposed in a term, they could all be rounded up in one referendum? or does this mean “one amendment per term at most”?
Claude Desmoulins: It would require 15 (whatever 50%=1 of all citizens) yes votes to pass regardless of hoe many vote.
Diderot Mirabeau: well Aliasi .. amendments could be bundled together but people would still only be able to vote yes or no once, right?
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, if you don’t like referendum, give me a way that someone can override an SC veto of a constituional change.
Diderot Mirabeau: on the whole package in other words
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Impeach the SC 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: One at a time?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If the SC is really misbehaving
Aliasi Stonebender: that just means you might run out the current bunch of rascals, only to have ot find another bunch.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you’d get easily full agreement on the other two bodies
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve pushed it as an option because it’s all we have NOW… but I don’t like it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, well ? that’s ‘democracy’ for you, Aliasi hehe
Claude Desmoulins: If you impeached the lot, where does the new SC come from?
Sudane Erato: good point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I see your point, Claude.
Aliasi Stonebender: even as a representative democracy, I think it’s a bit odd to be frightened of the citizens exercising a vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe right, Aliasi 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, there were reasons for not including the referendum
Diderot Mirabeau: the consitution could be argued to form the social compact between citizens and government and from that perspective it would not be unreasonable to say that if the basic premises of cohabitation between government and governed is changed citizens …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mostly because most people in Neualtenburg at the time were ‘dormant’
Diderot Mirabeau: should have the option to reconfirm their allegiance to the social compact
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right
Aliasi Stonebender: Yeah, Gwyn, but the old Neualtenburg just required you say “hey, I’d like to be in”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let’s have the RA propose the introduction of a referendum
Aliasi Stonebender: the current city requires at least SOME activity in the form of payment.
Claude Desmoulins: Also, impeachment as the only option turns every issue into a vote of confidence on the SC.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and Aliasi ? the ‘new’ Neualtenburg, with redefining citizenship, will probably move towards that model again)
Claude Desmoulins: Please explain…. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well, it’s the same issue ? if we have several available modes of participating in N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: like rentals
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or co-habitation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all these people, sooner or later, might become citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: under a revised model
Sudane Erato: we might have… but do not now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, really, it will be more “I’m a citizen of Neualtenburg because I abide by its laws”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, not now, I agree.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway
Aliasi Stonebender: That’s somethign to consider, but I’ve also made clear I don’t think anyone should become a citizen without some form of commitment to the city.
Claude Desmoulins: Hmmm.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t oppose the notion of a referendum per se
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It just needs the proper safeguards
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it *has* to be a constitution amendment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To make it have *power*
Aliasi Stonebender: We don’t have the situation of people being citizens because their parents had a child here, after all.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe not yet, Aliasi, but who knows.,.. I have heard pretty crazy ideas from Lindens that *were* seriously discussing that… but let’s skip that for the moment 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: which is actually very fascinating … citizenship as an involved, conscious decision of the individual … something that should be the ideal every democracy strived for
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, Do you want to do the first draft? I’d like to see the referendum limited to being the last step of the constitutional amendment process.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Diderot ? I do agree, although it raises currently lots of problems, but I guess we can figure them out
Diderot Mirabeau: ah … the tediousness of practicalities 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, the ‘first draft’ is roughly this:
Claude Desmoulins: That way, the SC keeps much of its power. The only way to circumvent is to tchange the constitution with all the hoops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – one referendum per term
Aliasi Stonebender: well, it’s an ideal I want to strive for – I don’t insist the committment be monetary, but it should be SOMETHING that shows you’ll do more than join a group and lay idle.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – 2/3 majority vote f the population to make it ‘binding’
Claude Desmoulins: population or tho
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – constitution amendments need a referendum to get approved
Claude Desmoulins: Wait.
Aliasi Stonebender: ’cause I think that caused a lot of problems for the old model.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Aliasi, that’s the biggest problem.
Claude Desmoulins: 2/3 majority – three possible interpretations here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh LOL
Claude Desmoulins: 1. 2/3 of all citizens must vote for ref to be valid
Diderot Mirabeau: I agree Aliasi .. but it can be hard to devise a test that will measure out exact predictions of future performance as a citizen
Claude Desmoulins: 2/. 2/3 of voters must say yess.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I was just saying that at LEAST half the citizens should vote and at LEAST a simple majority of them would be needed. But that is the ‘weakest’ possible solution.
Claude Desmoulins: 2/3 of citizens must say yes (vote yes)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2/3 of ALL voters saying YES is a pretty strong requirement, but I’m fine with it, if the RA votes on that.
Claude Desmoulins: Which do you mean?
Claude Desmoulins: Ok
Aliasi Stonebender: well, diderot, that’s why our current model works. paying towards the upkeep of the city is a practical measure of involvement, and since you’d have to buy multiple plots and maintain multiple groups, makes the alt-problem a lesser concern.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude ? all your three suggestions are ‘stronger’ than a simple majority of at least half of the citizens voting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’d be agreeable to either one!
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d go for at least 50% turnout, 2/3rd voting in favor.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll put together a text version ofthe amendment and redraft mine.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Diderot Mirabeau: Yes Aliasi .. it would be an interesting thought to play with to expand the definition of the commitment to include other forms of contribution such as building .. scripting .. hosting events .. or any other kind of society building activity
Aliasi Stonebender: Like I said, once we do the revision, I’d like it to stick.
Claude Desmoulins: Then you’ve got to measure those things and define how much is enough.
Diderot Mirabeau: In the RL country that I am based in 70% of the population eligilbe to vote is required to vote yes …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, the SECOND step would be to get the referendum to approve the constitution, instead of the SC’s ‘confirmation vote’
Aliasi Stonebender: Indeed, diderot, but until then… we have bills we have to pay, and it’s an easy way of making sure they do!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, aliasi.
Claude Desmoulins: Good.
Diderot Mirabeau: ‘bills to pay and mouths to feed’ 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, LL’s mouths 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: So essentially this defines a new amendment process.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the constitution only?
Claude Desmoulins: 1st 2/3 majority of all RA members
Claude Desmoulins: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah sorry. Yes, amendments are constitution only.
Claude Desmoulins: Then 2/3 of citizens with 51%+ voter turnour
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 50% + one? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or 51%?
Aliasi Stonebender: 50% plus one, I’d say.
Claude Desmoulins: 50%+1
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Diderot Mirabeau: so if 50% is 8.5?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 50% + 1 would be 9
Claude Desmoulins: Now we can’t actually pass it until we finish the rest of the constitution stuff. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, we’ll rweak the wording.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, you can, Claude 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Huh?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since right now, you DON’T need a referendum to approve the constitution!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: If we do this one first, as soon as it gets passed everything else has to go to referendum.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the RA’s call, you can have tons of tiny amendments now
Diderot Mirabeau: no but it would be impractical if there are other const. amendments to pass as part of the reform process right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and leave the referendum to the end 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s your game 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s clean up everything using the currewnt system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: clean it up, and then pass the referendum amendment as the “seal”
Diderot Mirabeau: ah the feeling of empowerment, eh?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: From what I’ve seen, anyway, most of the things are just minor changes, rewordings, etc
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Then do the referendum amendment. Perhaps without a referendum on it, since it would be the old system still 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: clarifications
Aliasi Stonebender: since holding a bona fide constitutional convention is kind of unlikely with our timezone difficulties.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Claude, that’s the idea 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Make the job *much harder* for the next RA members, lol
Claude Desmoulins: Two more things.
Diderot Mirabeau: and leave a lasting legacy .. isn’t that the ultimate goal of most politicians? 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, indeed, Aliasi, we can only have the usual “forum discussion” which makes things drag for weeks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hehe Diderot 😉 )
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, if we change the SC veto provisions in article III, how long does the SC need? I’d like seven days to veto or it becomes law.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was earlier suggesting briefly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: a slight re-interpretation on the veto thingie
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Working like this…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: By ‘default’, all bills subject to veto
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – budget by Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – others by SC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: are “automatically approved”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: after, say, X days
Claude Desmoulins: X=?
Flyingroc Chung: 10 days?
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, this means that the SC/Guild cannot ‘block’ the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if they refuse to work
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe FR
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe FR
Claude Desmoulins: Good. Like what we just did 2/ 4-10
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s also a more resonable explanation and an assumption that both SC and Guild act in ‘good faith’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, present in our traditions. Formally, the SC *never* approved the bills…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the ones made into laws, I mean
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because the SC never met formally, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, perhaps the constitution should clarify that also.
Claude Desmoulins: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. “by default” ? everything is automatically approved.
Claude Desmoulins: Last announcement.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, this is moving away from Lordfly’s suggestion of the bicameral system, and more towards Aliasi’s interpretation of the SC as judicial
Gwyneth Llewelyn: with which I tend to agree more
Claude Desmoulins: I have an out of town business trip next week. I may be away from SL on Wednesday evening.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
Claude Desmoulins: If I can get my Linux box to behave, I could do the meeting at another time. Else you’ll have to go on w/o me or postpone until the 22nd.
Sudane Erato: i suggest the 22nd
Diderot Mirabeau: well the RA’s been pretty busy up until now .. no harm done in postponing by a week, eh?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: 22d is fine, nburg will survive, methinks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope so!
Claude Desmoulins: I guess if a meeting is constitutionally obligrtory, would Kendra run it or Aliasi?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Claude ? just one per month
Flyingroc Chung: consti mandates only 1x a month?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You had your ‘quota’ filled with this one 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s postpone til the 22nd. Give us time to get constitutional ducks in order.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: We also need to start thinking about a voting system.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Sudane Erato: and a lot of procedural things too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, indeed, Sudane 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Only 5 months seven days until elections 🙂
Sudane Erato: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: like getting Nota Bene *finally* installed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hehe Claude 😀
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Time flies!
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections to adjournment?
Sudane Erato: no
Flyingroc Chung: no
Farfletched Ixchel: If I may say so, this has been highly interesting 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We’re adjourned then.RA Meeting: February 22, 2006
Claude Desmoulins: …get started.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn just arrived
Dnate Mars: did I pay for Feb udane?
Dnate Mars: I can’t remember….
Sudane Erato: neither Eugene nor kendra are on line
Sudane Erato: ahhh no
Claude Desmoulins: First is the question of paying for civil service.
Sudane Erato: I was going to remind you
Dnate Mars: um… oops
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: No one replied to Sudane’s forum post.
Flyingroc Chung: sry, havent been reading forums lately, swamped.
Claude Desmoulins: Any general discussion before we look at the budget?
Aliasi Stonebender: none from me.
Claude Desmoulins: I think Sudane has made a useful distinction between governing functions and civil service functions.
Sudane Erato: trying to, yes
Claude Desmoulins: For example, the difference between Treasurer and Gildemeister.
Claude Desmoulins: Even though one person does both functions.
Sudane Erato: having one person do both functions is not ideal
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, I’ve let my feelings be known… the basic idea could be summed up as “I don’t think power and money should come with the same job”, I suppose.
Sudane Erato: for the obvious conflict of interest
Sudane Erato: yes…exactly
Claude Desmoulins: But we don’t have enough people to separate everything.
Sudane Erato: but corners need to be cut a bit
Sudane Erato: right
Aliasi Stonebender: True enough. We’ve so few people all kinds of folks have to wear multiple hats.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s look at the budget since that will make the issue more specific.
Sudane Erato: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all.
Sudane Erato: hi Gwyn 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Touching the document box will get you one notecard with links 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Hi.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I hope it will eventually rez some day…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Sudane Erato: welcome to lag-land 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww thank you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmmm I see still some RA members missing…?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or just not rezzed in yet?
Claude Desmoulins: Missing the SDF again.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmpf.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Flyingroc Chung: heh
Claude Desmoulins: I think Kendra doesn’t get home in time for the meeting start.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, me too.
Claude Desmoulins: No idea about Eugene .
Claude Desmoulins: Comments on the draft budget?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I think i have to have a chat with Eugene… as much as I love him, the truth is, he has been having major computer problems for the past year or so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And he has changed computers three times!
Aliasi Stonebender: crazy.
Diderot Mirabeau: pfft … that’s Windows for you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe… I’ve seen him in a good deal lately
Dnate Mars: what happened?
Aliasi Stonebender: bah, I’m using Windows and it’s perfectly stable. No OS wars at the meeting kthx. 😉
Sudane Erato: lol…
Sudane Erato: I agree
Diderot Mirabeau: well me too .. just a cheap shot at humor
Dnate Mars: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: anyway, budget-wise…
Claude Desmoulins: I know the web hosting figure is high.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, it is.
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we authorize the guild to find a web host with that as a monthly max?
Sudane Erato: its better to estimate expenses high
Sudane Erato: and income low
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: What they don’t spend can be rolled into web development.
Claude Desmoulins: Which we tried to do.
Sudane Erato: sure
Aliasi Stonebender: Good idea.
Sudane Erato: or be left for the reserve
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I remember the last meeting on the web issue, that was what was agreed upon?
Aliasi Stonebender: the website isn’t going to use a huge amount of bandwidth in all probability
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. the remaining goes towards paying for development?
Aliasi Stonebender: unless we start posting interactive video tours. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I like development. We have to pay for an exlection system this term.
Claude Desmoulins: *election
Sudane Erato: yes
Flyingroc Chung: yep
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (btw: current webstats at: http://neualtenburg.info/webstat/)
Flyingroc Chung: where *is* nburg.info currently hosted?
Aliasi Stonebender: (although that won’t cover the wiki, which is my domain)
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane. Will you take that as a friendly amendment?
Sudane Erato: sure!
Sudane Erato: altho the budget is the RA’s
Claude Desmoulins: Who’s paying the web bill at the moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, no bill
Flyingroc Chung: gwyn and aliasi, I think?
Flyingroc Chung: aliasi for the wiki
Aliasi Stonebender: Gwyn, I assume, is paying for .info, wiki is mine.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I ‘paid’ for .info, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I don’t pay for web space, at least for a while
Claude Desmoulins: LEt’s make this formal.
Claude Desmoulins: Amendment…
Claude Desmoulins: Guild is oauthorized to secure hosting with the amount in the budget as a monthly maximum…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: *authorized,,.,
Claude Desmoulins: If all budgeted funds not spent on hosting, the remainder goes back to fund development of the site.
Sudane Erato: sounds great
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on the amendment?
Flyingroc Chung: sounds good to me
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn *pokes* Aliasi 😉
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Aliasi Stonebender: sorry. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: lag 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion on the budget?
Flyingroc Chung: where will the reserve fund come from?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You see, Aliasi ? Sudane, Dnate, Diderot and I are just part of the furniture 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: the reserve fund, as I understand it, is part of the budget.
Diderot Mirabeau: albeit a very decorative part of it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And talkative. But that’s ok for SL.
Sudane Erato: its basically the remainder, up to a point
Sudane Erato: and that will be determined at the end of the term
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, it’s basically “any money that we don’t budget, we stash until X amount.”
Sudane Erato: at which point we move funds into a reserve account
Flyingroc Chung: Isee, that makes sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very much so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re very sensible people 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: The way I read it is 10 k to land scanner, 10 k to web, 10k to promotion, 20k (4k/month) to salaries
Claude Desmoulins: That leaves 27k for reserve if we don’t tap our cash accounts.
Sudane Erato: which… really… is the same…
Sudane Erato: its all cash at this point
Sudane Erato: only at the end of the period do we assign funds to the reserve
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, it’ snot like we own stock or have a savings account.
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Should we move $195US to a reserve line?
Diderot Mirabeau: this procedure about transferring funds at the end of the period is that mentioned specifically in the law?
Sudane Erato: now?
Sudane Erato: hmmm..
Sudane Erato: I proposed it at one point…
Sudane Erato: its really procedural rather than substance
Diderot Mirabeau: okay it must be then .. in any case we have the transcripts 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: True.
Sudane Erato: well… it may be in drafts
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d think it would be better to fill it up as funds come in… I mean, as Sudane says, it’s procedural, we have th emoney anyway
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: but I’d prefer to allow us to stay a little flexible for the time being.
Claude Desmoulins: I think do it now. If we need an amendment here, there’s no rule about being germane 🙂
Sudane Erato: excatly Aliasi
Claude Desmoulins: WHen precisely do we move it then?
Aliasi Stonebender: end of the month? end of term?
Sudane Erato: theres really not a big issue
Sudane Erato: we can do it now, if you wish
Sudane Erato: so long there is cash for tyhe other needs
Diderot Mirabeau: but if we decide on a funds management policy at one point the exact moment of transfer would become more important .. although as you say it could be left procedurally ..
Sudane Erato: since they were to first
Claude Desmoulins: Do we start paying the civil service in Feb or March?
Sudane Erato: true…. but only if income were being generated by the account
Aliasi Stonebender: I just want to make sure any surprise expenses, we can handle. Since money in the reserve account stays there.
Sudane Erato: i agree with that… so I like a bit extra of a cushion
Sudane Erato: since there is no interest involved yet
Sudane Erato: i suggest waiting till the end of the period
Claude Desmoulins: Fine with me.
Sudane Erato: remember we siad… “Up to one month”
Claude Desmoulins: I think that’s what the bill says.
Sudane Erato: and later to a max of two
Claude Desmoulins: Are we ready to vote on the budget or do we need to amend for an election system?
Sudane Erato: perhaps we should add 10,000 for the elctions system
Aliasi Stonebender: Sounds good to me.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll considerthat a proposed amendment.
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Aliasi Stonebender: none here.
Flyingroc Chung: sounds good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay again 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of adding $L10K for election system…
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: BRB
Dnate Mars: aye
Diderot Mirabeau: ahem
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Flyingroc Chung: lol dnate
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: practicing for next term?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hudreset
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and sorry for the spam
Diderot Mirabeau: learning by mimicking
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb
Aliasi Stonebender: bah.
Claude Desmoulins: Anything else before we vote the budget?
Aliasi Stonebender: not from me.
Claude Desmoulins: My presumption is that the guild is responsible for bidding this stuff out, either to its own members or externally.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Aliasi Stonebender: yes. The RA is concerned with what to do, the Guild handles how.
Sudane Erato: i’m trying to develop procedures now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks for asking that, Claude…. it would be my next question…
Sudane Erato: at this point… I’d just ask for those willing to do the job…
Claude Desmoulins: I hope the Gildemeisteren keeps us in the loop on the various RFP’s
Sudane Erato: I’m hoping to propose better procedures
Claude Desmoulins: *-erin
Claude Desmoulins: If we pass this, when do payments to the civil servants start?
Sudane Erato: I suggest in March
Flyingroc Chung: should be march
Aliasi Stonebender: yes.
Flyingroc Chung: since february is about to end
Claude Desmoulins: Ok
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the budget as amended….
Diderot Mirabeau: are all the positions already occupied?
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jobs for the Boys! LOL
Sudane Erato: I’m not sure who to call the webmaster…
Flyingroc Chung: aye (for the vote)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, no webmaster until we have an official website.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane is treasurer. I’m default RA archivist, Gwyn is default SC archivist, who’s webmaster?
Sudane Erato: ahhh… i see
Diderot Mirabeau: so no seperation of decisionmakers and bureaucracy in practice then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there will be one, once the new site goes up.
Flyingroc Chung: but it allows for it in the future
Aliasi Stonebender: yes. right now, I think Gwyn is technically webmaster of the current site.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, as we discussed last time, Diderot, we can delegate…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack, pfft, not really Aliasi 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: aye (on the budget)
Aliasi Stonebender: If you’ve got the admin account, it’s yer pickle.
Flyingroc Chung: in any case it’s up to the guild to designate who’s webmaster, right?
Claude Desmoulins: Probably.
Sudane Erato: yes… but right now the Guild is taking offers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll see about defining the ‘role’ of the webmaster, but rest assured, Aliasi it’ll be quite a bit more than having the admin password 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, FR.
Sudane Erato: because the procedures are still to be made
Aliasi Stonebender: I know, I know.
Gwyneth Llewelyn humbly admits that she hasn’t checked the RFP on the wiki
Aliasi Stonebender: okay, three ayes, I guess that budget is passed.
Sudane Erato: yay!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, congratulations, RA members 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For the first time in N’burg History.
Sudane Erato: our first budget!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have A BUDGET!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hip hip hooray!
Sudane Erato: amazing!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *howls*
Gwyneth Llewelyn *goes wild*
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: FR, if Sudane sends you the exchange rate each month…
Flyingroc Chung: oh yes sudane… are the land fees column not accurate?
Claude Desmoulins: ….can you change your land script to calculate the $L land fee and add a land fee total line to the table for each resident?
Sudane Erato: the fees are fine based on a fixed number
Sudane Erato: yes… in other words
Sudane Erato: duplicate the old “Citizens” page
Sudane Erato: no one now knows how much they owe each month
Flyingroc Chung: hm, so all you need are totals per citizen?
Sudane Erato: with a variable L rate
Claude Desmoulins: and to calc the $l based on the exchange rate each month.
Flyingroc Chung: wait, so the L$fee on teh current table is not accurate?
Claude Desmoulins: Since it’s one number you could hard code it into the script and change it monthly.
Diderot Mirabeau: no its based on a fixed echange rate
Diderot Mirabeau: *exchange
Sudane Erato: it is to change each month… by a bill passed last Sept
Sudane Erato: and besides…
Sudane Erato: no one can add up their numbers 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: … but you dont change it from your excel file?
Sudane Erato: ahhh… good point
Sudane Erato: you’re looking at that data too
Claude Desmoulins: If Sudane changes it in excel, your script picks that up, right?
Sudane Erato: I could input that, i guess
Sudane Erato: yes… I wasn’t doing it
Flyingroc Chung: claude, yes, then it would be fairly easy to recreate the citizens page from that data
Sudane Erato: because Ulrika had it automatically posted each month
Claude Desmoulins: Can you do per resident totals?
Flyingroc Chung: yes, I can do per resident totals
Sudane Erato: ok…. I’ll keep the excell data up to date with the current rate
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table 4-12 and let Sudane and FR tweak the scripts then.
Sudane Erato: ok
Sudane Erato: agreed
Claude Desmoulins: Go to 4-11 please.
Claude Desmoulins: My point here is to do an expansion plan so one is ready if/when we’re ready to expand.
Aliasi Stonebender: would be nice.
Flyingroc Chung: I like the idea…
Diderot Mirabeau: I am wondering if it would make sense to take more of the zoning discussion in the RA prior to the RFP and put a more specific requirement in there rather than deciding afterwards?
Sudane Erato: just concerned that it does not push the issue of when to act
Diderot Mirabeau: that would enable us to let our expansion and development policy inform the planning more beforehand .. if it is possible of course
Aliasi Stonebender: I think the problem is, we can’t act until we have the money to do so… and thr ability to absorb some of the monthly cost if we don’t immediately sell enough plots.
Flyingroc Chung: should the proposal also containan estimate of costs to build the sim?
Claude Desmoulins: I specifically worded the bill to not lock us into a date.
Sudane Erato: yes, i know…
Sudane Erato: but these things are emotional
Claude Desmoulins: For that matter, the RA could bounce the proposals back if unhappy with the zoning mix.
Diderot Mirabeau: with zoning I mean for example that we could guide the planners by saying 80% residential .. 20% commercial or some such
Diderot Mirabeau: well yes but why waste people’s time if we know beforehand what we are looking after approximately
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Claude Desmoulins: Do we?
Diderot Mirabeau: not know .. but I’m proposing the RA take a general discussion on the way we want the expansion to go in terms of ..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same question here….
Diderot Mirabeau: putting emphasis on commercial or residential zones ..
Diderot Mirabeau: *know = now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do ‘we’ want? 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I want something with a fair amount of residential space so we can grow the population.
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: well… there’s a fairly heavy contingent of people who are sort of “self-supporting artisans” in SL. We need residential space, but one of the biggest complaints I hear re: other private land deals is
Diderot Mirabeau: “first land” for Neualtenburg? 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: no business allowed
Claude Desmoulins: BTW, on a tangent, do we now allow a citizen to own just a P280 prim lot?
Aliasi Stonebender: Not yet, no.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m thinking of Garnet here.
Sudane Erato: one for each City lot
Claude Desmoulins: WHere’s her regular land?
Flyingroc Chung: guys, really sorry, but I gotta run in a couple of minutes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve suggested the whole “subdivide a lot into microlots to let people be citizens without really owning land”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Aliasi.
Aliasi Stonebender: but I haven’t made it a bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I loved the idea, of course….
Aliasi Stonebender: (Since I’m not sure if it’s NEEDED.)
Sudane Erato: and yes, Aliasi, thats a great idea…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, next session, perhaps?
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane, what;s Garnet’s situation?
Sudane Erato: Garnet is having RL $$ problems
Aliasi Stonebender: It’s not a real change in procedure, just a change in how th eplots are drawn… which has never been a matter needing the RA before.
Sudane Erato: scaled back… and is no longer in NBurg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Awww I’m sorry to hear that 🙁
Diderot Mirabeau: before proposing such a bill we would need to look into whether it will have adverse effects on the question of using land as a sanction of last resort in relation to corporate accountabilitiy and dispute resolution
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😛
Claude Desmoulins: What about res/commercial mix in a possible new sim?
Claude Desmoulins: I have no problem with there being more commercial land than in the present sim.
Diderot Mirabeau: I’d say I’m inclined to agree with Claude’s preference and Aliasi’s observation..
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t see that such a thing could have adverse effects, Diderot, but that’s me/.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second that, but again, that’s “me” as well.
Sudane Erato: fine with me too
Flyingroc Chung: Why not wait for the proposals to come in, at least we’llhave some sort of concrete document on people’s vision for the new sim?
Sudane Erato: i observe many people seeing NBurg as a second home
Gwyneth Llewelyn: FR, as always, you’re a pragmatist 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I think if we do a cooporate code per Frank’s suggestion, one could either secure with land or put $L in an escrow account with the city.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Second Home?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: I mean, as it is, you can get a basic city plot for a $1us a month, a 16m plot for a quarter isn’t much different.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: thats true
Claude Desmoulins: If we let the proposals drive this, do we want to vote on the bill?
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s possible, Claude, but the important thing about land is it maintains a MONTHLY contribution, not a one-time shot of L$.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Claude Desmoulins: I’m thinking of debt security here.
Aliasi Stonebender: anyway, re: this bill… I’m fine with it as is.
Claude Desmoulins: any objections to this bill?
Sudane Erato: sure…. it impacts the underlying “worth” of the City
Diderot Mirabeau: if I were a city planner I’d be thankful for a bit more detailed specification as to what the client actually wants
Flyingroc Chung: yes, lets vote on it
Diderot Mirabeau: but sure let a hundred flowers blossom .. let the planners toil and we’ll just pick the best
Claude Desmoulins: Right.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: that’s just me
Aliasi Stonebender: The thing is, diderot, is I don’t think we as a city are sure what we want.
Aliasi Stonebender: hence the call for proposals.
Claude Desmoulins: We can look at the impact on city value of each of the actrual proposals.
Diderot Mirabeau: the worst kind of clients are those who don’t know what they want
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait…. hmm
Aliasi Stonebender: welcome to government.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I just say something briefly?
Sudane Erato: we are in many ways “bad”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Before the vote, I mean.
Flyingroc Chung: go ahead gwyn
Aliasi Stonebender: your typing apparatus appears to continue to function, go ahead.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, there is a SLIGHT problem on this ‘bill’ re: constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The RA, with consultation from the Gilde, will choose a winning proposal.”
Flyingroc Chung: ack, I need to go
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there goes our quorum, lol
Claude Desmoulins: Canwe kick this to 7 day discussion/vot?
Sudane Erato: thats a good idea
Aliasi Stonebender: sure. We’ll have to do that with the amendments, anyway,.
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections to 7 daying this?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. There are some issues on the way the City is really ‘planned’.
Flyingroc Chung: no
Aliasi Stonebender: none here./
Flyingroc Chung: k, I really gotta go, sorry.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you FR.
Claude Desmoulins: FR, you can go.
Diderot Mirabeau: sure bye FR
Sudane Erato: bye Roc!
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, you can keep talking 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need 50 members on the RA, with a quorum of at least 2 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol ty Claude.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… the current sim worked basically like this….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: RA set the overall zoning policies
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Guild decided on urban planning
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and architectural style
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to conform to the zoning.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Now this bill talks about a “sim planning committee”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either role ? zoning, or urban planning ? can be outsourced.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No problem there.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What this proposal means is that BOTH get outsourced?
Claude Desmoulins: Gilde and RA would have oversight.
Aliasi Stonebender: I think it’s more “request for proposals”, but the RA and Guilde have final approval over it.
Claude Desmoulins: DOn’t try to plan a city in a legislative session.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I know ? that’s what committees are for 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: there’s a difference between planning and setting out overall objectives of how we want Neualtenburg to expand and develop
Claude Desmoulins: Hence the sim planning committee 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But committes can also get replaced by outsourced entities ? no problems there!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Diderot, that’s the idea I wanted to make clear.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, this comittee will start working on what and when?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One thing is “how N’burg should expand and develop”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Another thing is “what style, what theme, what buildings, how should the roads meet, how to integrate with current sim”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Will seperate proposals be outsourced?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *separate
Claude Desmoulins: Once the RA and Guild approve the general proposal as ooutlined in the bill, the sim planning committee would be responsible for drafting a map,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry, Claude, but it’s too vague.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is being mean.
Claude Desmoulins: Then RA and Guild have to approve it.
Aliasi Stonebender: Gwyn is bringing up soe good points… I think this bill needs a second look.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think I have the *original* proposal for N’burg.
Claude Desmoulins: Read my old expansion thread in the forums.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the extension of just the proposal ? not the full document which then became the Prospectus! ? was quite more than: “The new sim should be contiguous with the existing sim. It should include a public amphitheatre.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Claude ? that thread, or at least parts of it, should be part of the bill.
Claude Desmoulins: I didn’t want to lay out the whole process as I envisioned it in thefirst bill ,for fear of beaing accused of pusing expansion too fast.
Claude Desmoulins: *pushing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Never fear that 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll all be here defending you 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe… well…
Claude Desmoulins: You’re not whom I’m scared of, Gwyn.
Sudane Erato: others could be accused of that
Claude Desmoulins: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: pushing too fast, hell claude, I think we should have expanded awhile back, but you know, I’m crazy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Diderot Mirabeau: I don’t see how _you_ could be accused of that when considering your faction’s platform 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with Aliasi, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Diderot is *quite* right 😉
Sudane Erato: ahhh… and I’m the dissentor 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll be happy to amend the bill to reflect more of what I put in my original expansion proposal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Claude ? so the idea is just to comission a *STUDY* on how we should expand? Is that it?
Claude Desmoulins: The amphitheatre was juyst an idea. I think a second sim needs some public space.
Sudane Erato: a study might be a good way to label it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Claude Desmoulins: I still also think that if we go ahead and plan a second sim, we might get financial commitments up front that would help defray costs.
Claude Desmoulins: I also think there are citizens chomping at the bit to get this thing on the table and we should let them present their vision(s)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s put it this way. I think that this bill should be slightly amended to be a “Call for Studies on Expansion” 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Budget for this?
Claude Desmoulins: What’s the difference between a study and a proposal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, doing a study takes time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A study is government’s usual way of stalling something but presenting the media and the public with thick binders crammed full of ideas, none of which they compromise on following 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: A study could look into issues such as what other private sims have done for their second sim or do a survey of prospective residents as to their expectations .. as I see it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops, I forgot this goes on record ? LOL
Sudane Erato: haha
Aliasi Stonebender: Heh, no reason to not be honest in THIS government.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: To be honest
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Doing a study is preliminary work
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and it really does take time
Claude Desmoulins: If we just ask for opinions,. we’ll go round and round forever.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and since you don’t know if in the future your study will be the basis for future proposals, its work wasted.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *it’s
Aliasi Stonebender: I think asking for ideas is good, but I don’t think this bill does it very well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about sponsoring a panel?
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll start a forum thread, although I’m not sure what we’ll really get out of it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. I read this bill as being really the proposal for the new sim.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only leaving the date open.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For that, well, I insist that it’s too vague.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just two things are mentioned: it should be contiguous; it should have an amphitheatre.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s not enough.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It should mention MUCH more 😀
Claude Desmoulins: What else does it need?
Diderot Mirabeau: guidelines as to how the landscape should support a specific proportion of zoning for example
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my, I really *do* have to see if I can find the oldest ‘proposal requests’ for N’burg…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that’s a start, Diderot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: how the integration should be done
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. with the existing sim
Sudane Erato: and how do we arrive at those guidelines?
Aliasi Stonebender: yes. “We want 60% residential, 20% commercial, and 20% public land” or something concrete.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) By creating the SIM Planning Commitee *first*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) By comissioning a study 🙂
Sudane Erato: i see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) By doing a workshop/panel/forum discussion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4) Eventually, if the RA is willing, to delegate it to someone 😉
Claude Desmoulins: SPC should be Guildemeister/ lRA/someone from SC/ who else?
Diderot Mirabeau: an outsider with experience in second sims?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn ,would you be willing to put up a draft of what the study should do?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the pre-proposal SPC only *needs* to be RA.
Diderot Mirabeau: ah yes SPC .. was thinking of the panel
Claude Desmoulins: Then what’s the diff between the SPC and the RA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Claude, sure, it’s just picking up one of gazillions of forum posts… every month, the Lindens set up one, for instance
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Diderot Mirabeau: cut & paste legalese .. ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The ‘rough guidelines’ are just the RA’s job.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the RA may *wish* to invite other governmental entities
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but is not *required* to do so.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll do a forum thread,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then, there is a solution picked.
Claude Desmoulins: If we have a panel, who should be on it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This time, the solution will be evaluated by the *Guild*.
Sudane Erato: as to impact, perhaps…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, the Guild *can* invite others to discuss the aesthetics, the urban planning, the building style, etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But they’re not *required* to do so.
Sudane Erato: sure
Sudane Erato: the fiancial impact 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, there is no *need* for a “mixed” ‘panel of juries’ or so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: RL example…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the people who open up a public contest which has US federal / or Europeapn funds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: are not the same that sit in the jury approving the contest winners
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and are definitely not the same that propose solutions 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and in some cases, you can delegate some tasks….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. outsource them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: like: if you don’t know how to do a proposal to build a nuclear power plant, you hire aq company to write the guidelines.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That company, of course, can’t compete then.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither can they be called to sit as jury.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The ‘original’ idea in Nburg was a BIT like that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The guidelines come from RA
Claude Desmoulins: Someone knows how to do a proposal. NBurg exists, after all.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the proposal comes from Guild (or is approved by Guild)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m even saying more than that, Claude ? I think that the RA is *more than able* to set up the guidelines by themselves, and *not* outsource the ‘study’ for the proposal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: HOWEVER; the RA *can* (if they prefer/wish/vote so) do the outsourcing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s their, uh, prerrogative
Aliasi Stonebender: I need to run, but quick opinion from the SC before I go: is the whole “divide a parcel into small ones for citizenship purposes” thing…
Claude Desmoulins: So you’re proposing an internal RA process to claify considerably the parameters.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Likewise, I also think that among the Guild, we have qualified builders, architects, RL urban planners and landscape artists that can set up a good proposal. But, of course, the Guild is able to outsource that all.
Claude Desmoulins: *clarify
Aliasi Stonebender: … part of the alrerady-established ability to modify parcels as needed, or will a bill be required?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack. You ask good questions, Aliasi.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😛
Aliasi Stonebender: I try, I try.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d prefer to have it as a bill.
Claude Desmoulins: I would think that if the guild can modify parcels, the guild can modify parcels,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Claude.
Claude Desmoulins: So why do we need a bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, as an answer to Aliasi: a bill is NOT required.
Sudane Erato: we can modify any but the P280 parcels
Claude Desmoulins: Essentially the question is is there a minimum parcel size for the sim?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: unless for some reason the plots suddenly violate the existing zoning, lol
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Sudane Erato: oh right!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that in truth a bill won’t be *required*.
Aliasi Stonebender: … and considering that I threw up dividing one of the 280 parcels as an idea… well, I’ll write a bill so we have somethign solid, but I’ll work on the supposition that we can modify any plots BUT the 280 series.
Sudane Erato: well there are clauses in the covenant which would be…. no take that back
Sudane Erato: yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sudane. Aliasi’s question is REALLy good and so hard to answer with 100% assurance 😉
Sudane Erato: I think its quite consistent with the existing covenant
Aliasi Stonebender: But I will include suggested current plots in the “commentary” section of the bill.
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, Gwyn, you’re half the active SC right now. I can get 50% assurance.
Claude Desmoulins: So is this in the covenant thatwone cna’t mod p280 lots?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. Right. When I’m acting sensibly 🙂
Sudane Erato: not exactly…
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn,
Sudane Erato: but it was the intent of the RA that the 280 plots be reserved to enable city residents to function with such tint prim allocation
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, how’s this.
Sudane Erato: and they ARE very important
Claude Desmoulins: Could the SC preparte an advisory opinion as to…
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ll write up a formalization of the p280 situation to go along with the bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie, Aliasi 🙂
Sudane Erato: great
Claude Desmoulins: 1)what current law and documents allow and don’t allow as far as plot changes and
Claude Desmoulins: 2) If there isa minimum plot size implied in foundational documents.
Aliasi Stonebender: Hm, actually, that can go hand in hand.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whew. I’ll try to do my best on 1), but that info is terribly to track.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to 2), I’m almost sure there is no ‘minimum’.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: almost sure is not 100%.
Sudane Erato: i agree
Aliasi Stonebender: I can propose two covenant mods – the one to formalize p280, and a similar one for the “microparcel” idea.
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi, why don’t we wait for your bill.
Sudane Erato: no one could imagine functioning with anything less than 144
Claude Desmoulins: I need to give a report.
Aliasi Stonebender: except with our public space, one COULD.
Claude Desmoulins: If they want a house.
Sudane Erato: right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe.
Aliasi Stonebender: in the sense of “get a 16m^2 plot, place a vendor in the Platz.”
Claude Desmoulins: If they don’t want a house, but just want to be citizens…
Sudane Erato: and that makes sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 16 m2 ! Get your “Impeach Bush Now” sign! AND a free “Citizen of Neualtenburg” plaque in prime plywood!
Aliasi Stonebender: (or run events, or vote, or incorporate your business, when we get to that)
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Claude Desmoulins: 144 at $1.11US is the current minimum de facto
Sudane Erato: hehe… so Rudeen can “Reclaim” thenm 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: per month
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: how much smaller should it be de jure?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They will feature lovely trees 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: That’s the question.
Claude Desmoulins: I need to make a report.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, since you can’t do plots smaller than 16 m2…
Sudane Erato: not much, really, i should think
Aliasi Stonebender: No, here in Neualtenburg, we only allow impeachment signs of OUR officials.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Aliasi ;(
Sudane Erato: hehe
mezumi Akula: hi
Aliasi Stonebender fires up Photoshop to make “IMPEACH STONEBENDER”, why not be ahead of the curve?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That reminds me of something else for the MoCA, but I can talk about that to Diderot & Fletch later.
Diderot Mirabeau: you could sell them Aliasi
Claude Desmoulins: In my capacity as LRA I gave a presentation on Neualtenburg to Bryan Mnemonic’s Cyber Culture class at CMSU on Monday.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awwww how did that go??
Claude Desmoulins: I used skype and didn’t record the audio, sorry.
Claude Desmoulins: By all acoounts pretty well.
Claude Desmoulins: *accounts
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh wonderful!
Claude Desmoulins: I’ve asked Bryan to talk to his students about their impressions of us and report back.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I hope it will give us some good outside feedback on how new residents see us.
Aliasi Stonebender: alright then, I’m gone for the moment. I’ll post my suggested bill on the forum ASAP.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, Aliasi! thank you 🙂
Sudane Erato: see you Aliasi!
Claude Desmoulins: Let me see if KB or Eugene is online/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙁
Sudane Erato: neither
Sudane Erato: neither is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nor Eugene’s alt…
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll adjourn for lack of enough member(s) to discuss.
Claude Desmoulins: Didn’t touch the constitution 🙁
Sudane Erato: 🙂
The meeting closed at 16:41 Linden time.RA Meeting: March 01, 2006
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just the ‘decision’ has to be postponed, of course 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: I turned the recorder on.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch the box under the table if you’re on RA.
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll start with a report from the Guildmeisterin.
Aliasi Stonebender has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh oh… may I interrupt later? I have a ‘special request’ from a group doing a rally who wished to drop by N’burg for 10-15 mins….
Sudane Erato: my report is the “Platz Parcels”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can discuss that later 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Will it need RA action?
Sudane Erato: it indicates that the ro-parceling of the Platz is imminent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the RA should approve ‘public demonstrations’ in N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and sorry to interrupt, Sudane
Sudane Erato: and that we will be creating 10 parcels
Sudane Erato: np
Aliasi Stonebender: Are they Neualtenburg citizens?
Sudane Erato: if there are any suggestions about the notes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no)
Sudane Erato: there is also a diagram
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s let Sudane go and hope a quorum is here when Gwyn presents the special request.
Sudane Erato: the biggest issue might be that there are 6 92m2 parcels
Aliasi Stonebender: (sorry, I’ll blather on that topic when we get to it.I’ll be quiet.)
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: np 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and notecards still loading for me…. sorry ….
Sudane Erato: 92m2 is smaller than any existing parcel here, except the BangZwang?
Sudane Erato: but considering the institutions with be banks and other service institutions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What the hell is the ‘BangZwang’?? rofl
Aliasi Stonebender: hm, although you recall I’m proposing to make them even smaller…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: The BangZwang?
Sudane Erato: Kendras and Ulrikas store
Sudane Erato: immediately opposite us
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! Is it called that way? 😀
Sudane Erato: something like that 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my… has *anyone’s* notecards rezzed for you yet?!
Sudane Erato: I never get it right 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: well I have them
Aliasi Stonebender: Mine have rezzed just fine.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Grrr
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: sometimes it can be a hiccup in the server, Gwyn, try closing and re-opening?
Diderot Mirabeau: anything we can do to help? I can send the text over IM 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good thinking.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lots on hiccuping on this server 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, Sudane, Aliasi’s proposal calls for even smaller plots. I don’t think 92 m2 is a problem.
Sudane Erato: there is a little tex attachment
Claude Desmoulins: Looking at the arrangement graphic, which is Kendra’s existing store with the blue awning?
Diderot Mirabeau: we have a huge agenda .. perhaps we should be a bit time-conscious .. although of course we don’t have a quorum..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: May I ask you if there is a suggestion on the notecard regarding the way these parcels are going to be ‘auctioned’? 🙂
Sudane Erato: Kendra will move her existing store
Sudane Erato: the one we just talked avbout
Claude Desmoulins: What about the General Sotre.
Sudane Erato: that will be no longer
Sudane Erato: I have suggested an auction..
Sudane Erato: of 4 of the stores
Claude Desmoulins: IMaintenance of one plot as a general store was a provision of the zoning bill.
Sudane Erato: and I have asked about a mechnaism
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (at last I got the notecards, hooray!)
Sudane Erato: I don’t recall that…. since the general store is built into the Guildhall
Sudane Erato: but if it must be….
Sudane Erato: it must be
Claude Desmoulins: When I say Kendra’s store, I mean the one on the southwest corner next to what I think is Dianne’s
Sudane Erato: it does not seem to me an appropriate use of valuable space
Diderot Mirabeau: Dianne’s is called “Black” if that helps
Claude Desmoulins: There are two stores here.
Sudane Erato: ahhh… that is just a demonstration store
Claude Desmoulins: The first is the store that supplies trees and “building supplies” that can go in the Guildhall underneath.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
Claude Desmoulins: There was a provision that I believe the zoning bill maintains to have one store on platz where each citizen may place one vendor.
Sudane Erato: ahhhhh
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: well, certainly we can set one aside
Claude Desmoulins: If we go ahead and set aside a 144 for that, that leaves 1 144 and 2 96’s in each auction group.
Sudane Erato: yes, it does….
Sudane Erato: and I am not fixed about the number in each auction
Claude Desmoulins: What about a sealed bid mechanism?
Sudane Erato: I just don’t want to seel too low, for lack of buyers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry…. I need to go afk for a few minutes…. RL work issues, hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: well, with that addition, Claude…
Sudane Erato: I take it that everyone is informed
Sudane Erato: and we should go on
Claude Desmoulins: Just a sec, let me look for Kendra before we move back to 4-11.
Sudane Erato: Lucid, did you get an agenda from the box?
Lucid Vindaloo: Yes 🙂 Thank you 🙂
Sudane Erato: great
Claude Desmoulins: No sign yet.
Sudane Erato: no
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn was one of the persons who had concerns with the original bill. I’d like her to have a chance to discuss.
Claude Desmoulins: Does anyone else have comments on the second draft.
Sudane Erato: i think its great
Claude Desmoulins: If we approve the micoplots proposal, this will be less important since we would have room to add citizens without more land.,
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve mentioned I think 4-11 should be okay.
Claude Desmoulins: Do we absolutely need a draft map at the proposal stage or can we wait to draw a grid?
Diderot Mirabeau: well I’d be happy with either solution I am just thinking giving people the opportunity to do a rough draft of the map might open up a possibility for greater creativity … but I don’t what makes prospective city planners tick
Diderot Mirabeau: *know
Claude Desmoulins: I would say it would be optional but not required. I don’t want to scare off someone with an idea because their not comfortable with graph paper.
Claude Desmoulins: *they’re
Diderot Mirabeau: sounds good to me
Diderot Mirabeau: just good to be clear that we don’t expect it I suppose … another question .. the 50 / 40 / 10 distribution thing .. does anyone know how that compares roughly to f.x. the existing distribution in Nuealtenburg?
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane?
Sudane Erato: I’d have to research that…
Claude Desmoulins: Just a sec.
Sudane Erato: public land, much higher
Diderot Mirabeau: just a rough estimate maybe?
Sudane Erato: commercial land… Much lower
Aliasi Stonebender: On the other hand, a new sim wouldn’t need a duplicate of the already-existing public facilities, so it works.
Diderot Mirabeau: so Neualtenburg now is much higher on public land than the proposed expansion?
Diderot Mirabeau: true Aliasi
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: abosolutely
Sudane Erato: and it has a very tiny proportion of commercial land
Diderot Mirabeau: I guess the decision on the distribution also ties in a bit with our expectations as to our future potential
Sudane Erato: its really mostly residential, where commercial is allowed
Sudane Erato: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: Sudane do you have an impression of whether many interested parties for residence have been discouraged by the present availability of plots?
Diderot Mirabeau: ah …
Sudane Erato: I think not
Sudane Erato: we continuously lose people, as well as gain them
Sudane Erato: so available land is pretty steady
Aliasi Stonebender: although I don’t think it would hurt, since most of the GOOD plots are nigh-continuously occupied, which suggests there is more demand than we can meet now.
Diderot Mirabeau: okay … and I suppose the higher commercial percentage in the new sim .. 40% .. is in expectation that our new initiatives will attract more commercial activity to Neualtenburg
Sudane Erato: well… maybe
Claude Desmoulins: 50 /40/ 10 was just an idea.
Sudane Erato: Diderot, yes!
Sudane Erato: commercial represents the interesting expansion possibilities
Sudane Erato: residential is a steady kind of revenue
Sudane Erato: and public is none
Claude Desmoulins: Particularly if we do incorporation and registration along with a banking system.
Sudane Erato: yes…. and these figures are certtainly adjustable
Sudane Erato: not set in stone
Claude Desmoulins: I think a new sim needs some public land.
Sudane Erato: of course!
Sudane Erato: just not as much as here
Diderot Mirabeau: well .. I think personally I’d be inclined to prefer a sim proposal that divides the residential and commercial zones up to be pretty insulated from each other
Claude Desmoulins: There’s also a tendency to think of commercial as vendors.
Sudane Erato: well… hehe… you should submit one 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: ah yes Claude … commercial might just be a corporate hq .. a financial operation or even a builder’s workshop
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: That’s why Ikept residential higher than commercial, so we’d have more people than magic boxes.
Diderot Mirabeau: I’m pulling a few strings around trying to get people interested in the wider SL 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: I suppose it would be open for non-residents as well, right?
Diderot Mirabeau: *non-citizens
Sudane Erato: which?
Diderot Mirabeau: the call for proposals
Sudane Erato: oh!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry for that… I’m going to need another 15 minutes)
Claude Desmoulins: Not as written
Diderot Mirabeau feels sorry for Gwyneth
Diderot Mirabeau: ah okay I see … I have misunderstood something then …
Diderot Mirabeau: yes of course I see now it says citizens
Claude Desmoulins: Perhaps citizens could partner with non-citizens on a proposal.
Diderot Mirabeau: should have taken note of that before .. I was just thinking .. the call for proposals could in itself be a good part of a marketing campaign .. sort of an attention getter
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hudreset
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and sorry for the spam!
Diderot Mirabeau: and perhaps get people interested in moving in …
Sudane Erato: yes… interesting
Diderot Mirabeau: for example if somebody out there has already bought a good deal of land say 8192 to establish his or her own “theme park”
Diderot Mirabeau: this person might conceivably see some benefits in submitting a proposal on the basis of his theme park and offer to build on the base of that ..
Diderot Mirabeau: sort of like Kendra’s Birka initiative .. only for a non-citizen …
Diderot Mirabeau: of course I don’t know if that’s something we would be interested in
Diderot Mirabeau: and then again … it’s not too difficult to become a citizen .. and with the extended time frame …
Diderot Mirabeau: I’m just thinking aloud here .. do you have any strong opinions on the question of the citizenship requirement?
Claude Desmoulins: It’s our expansion, after all.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It would be a way to get more citizens, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Diderot Mirabeau: my thought as well 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and well… with Aliasi’s microplots proposal….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s not as if it’s TOO EXPENSIVE to become a citizen!
Diderot Mirabeau: yes .. it’s really not that hard to become one
Diderot Mirabeau: I concur
Diderot Mirabeau: or rest my case or … whatever
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn are you ok with this version?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No issues with me, lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll table temporarily since there’s no quorum.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😛
Diderot Mirabeau: I was just wondering .. although we do not have a quorum .. would it be an idea to have a guiding vote .. just so that if someone shows up .. we can just walk them through the results of the guiding vote .. and get it over with quickly adding their vote?
Diderot Mirabeau: this may be highly irregular procedure .. 🙂
Sudane Erato: lol
Sudane Erato: everything about NBurg…….
Aliasi Stonebender: we may wind up having to do the 7-day discussion and vote via email.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s hold and go to seven day if we can’t get aquorum
Aliasi Stonebender: which, BTW, you all got my new address, right?
Diderot Mirabeau: yup
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye. I’ve even tested it out today!
Diderot Mirabeau: so that’s why you apologised for the spam earlier 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: the old provider I used was pretty falling down, so I switched to gmail…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I was testing a HUD attachment, Diderot 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: ah yes the need for knowledge remains as strong as ever 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: gmail sure works for me
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Tangent : FPS check !!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: around 5 here 😀
Sudane Erato: 4
Aliasi Stonebender: 13.1
Claude Desmoulins: 1.2
Aliasi Stonebender: … I rock.
Diderot Mirabeau: ahem … how do I see it?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You do, Aliasi 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau blushes in embarassment
Aliasi Stonebender: ctrl-shift-1
Diderot Mirabeau: thanks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm Diderot ? yes, ctrl-shift-1
Diderot Mirabeau: is it the sim fps?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
Aliasi Stonebender: no,
Aliasi Stonebender: the top FPS.
Diderot Mirabeau: 4.6
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sim FPS should be around 45 these days, always.
Sudane Erato: mine is 43
Diderot Mirabeau: same here
Sudane Erato: dilation 97
Claude Desmoulins: yep.
Sudane Erato: not great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, lol ? can we get back on the iscussion, please? 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *discussion
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, please.
Aliasi Stonebender: we’ve been an hour and not gone past the FIRST ITEM.
Aliasi Stonebender: not that we can do much on the others, yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True 😛
Diderot Mirabeau: 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Sudane Erato: well… 4-14 is already in place
Aliasi Stonebender: hm?
Sudane Erato: so there’s not much to approve
Sudane Erato: sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good!
Sudane Erato: 4-13
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
Aliasi Stonebender: yes and no, Sudane.
Claude Desmoulins: Is 4-4 within guild authority?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘yes and no’…
Aliasi Stonebender: we have it in place, but no law authorizing it – and the prohibitions would require a modified covenant, would they not?
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s back up.
Aliasi Stonebender: the point behind the bill was to formally OK it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s discuss 4-13.
Aliasi Stonebender: kind of the same thing with 4-14.
Sudane Erato: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on both cases…
Claude Desmoulins: I see this ,as I believe Aliasi does, as formalizing esisting practice re the prim farm.
Claude Desmoulins: *existing
Aliasi Stonebender: also
Aliasi Stonebender: it establishes the “covenant” of that sort of land, and that’s useful in order to use it for microplots.
Sudane Erato: back
Aliasi Stonebender: basically, while we do all kinds of things irregularly, it doesn’t hurt to follow established practice where we can, eh?
Claude Desmoulins: In that case it would be important to designate what parts of 4-13 are actually in the new covenant.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack…. now I have to go afk again…. sorry guys
Sudane Erato: 4-13 is at this time implemented just like it sauys..
Aliasi Stonebender: he actual territory of p280 itself may have no building done on it other than trees and other natural objects, to preserve an “undeveloped park” look.
Sudane Erato: says
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s pretty much the covenant, Claude.
Claude Desmoulins: For example the building prohibition would be part of a no bvuild covenant which we could then apply elsewhere.
Sudane Erato: actually, the \deed says nothing may be put there
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, claude.
Claude Desmoulins: That’s what I thought.
Aliasi Stonebender: nothing? ah. I was under the impression trees were permitted.
Sudane Erato: well.. you know… its really not so relevant… so long as its trees
Sudane Erato: it just lowers your available prims
Sudane Erato: so why put anything?
Claude Desmoulins: Is everyone OK with this? (4-13_
Aliasi Stonebender: Aesthetics, Sudane. 😉
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: and I’m okay with it, obviously.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s talk about 4-14.
Sudane Erato: I think 4-14 is a great proposal
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to propose an amendment.
Claude Desmoulins: That we use P180 for the micro plot lot, after putting in a right of way for a road to the south border of the sim.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane has already figured out that this would leave us with 47 microplors.
Sudane Erato: well, I’ve put in the right of way
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: but Eugene’s departure.
Sudane Erato: P190 is free too
Diderot Mirabeau: has he actually abandoned his land?
Sudane Erato: and P195 is mine…. which can easily be adjusted
Sudane Erato: he said he left SL
Sudane Erato: I presume he abandoned… he said nothing to me
Aliasi Stonebender: One reason I left the actual plot vague was because I felt that could be amended, or decided by the Guild.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Aliasi Stonebender: hm. if he doesn’t make his next payment, we’ll know.
Sudane Erato: thats a good idea
Sudane Erato: no
Sudane Erato: he has money on deposit
Claude Desmoulins: We need a road somewhere on the south side if wewend up expanding that way.
Aliasi Stonebender: oh.
Diderot Mirabeau: perhaps we had better wait with repossession until next month’s payment? sometimes people do change their minds .. it’s been known to happen before, right? 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, thats a good point
Claude Desmoulins: *we end
Sudane Erato: hehe… ok
Aliasi Stonebender: IF we wind up expanding that way, Claude.
Sudane Erato: its not really the prefered way (by me)
Claude Desmoulins: I said if.
Sudane Erato: but we should keep the option available
Diderot Mirabeau: not by me either … I like my view as it is .. 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: I would say the West is the best option
Claude Desmoulins: If there’s no road the cliffs are _permanent_
Sudane Erato: thats really a convention of NBUrg
Sudane Erato: to have roads everywhere
Sudane Erato: its certainly not necessary
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, it’s more a way of contributing to the theme. And I’d say it wouldn’t be bad to continue havign roads as a “buffer zone” in other sims, but that’s not part of the matter at hand.
Sudane Erato: yes… i agree
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we amend the amendment to allow the guild to pick the plot?
Sudane Erato: that would be good
Claude Desmoulins: The NW viertel plot tucked right under the wall is another good possibility.
Sudane Erato: truthfully, there may not be a single area designated
Aliasi Stonebender: that was my thought, sudane.
Sudane Erato: perhaps bits here and there would be better
Claude Desmoulins: I do think, for the record that we need at least one road/path that crosses the southern border.
Aliasi Stonebender: the idea was we could convert any given unsold piece of land into microplots, or shave bits off.
Sudane Erato: yes
Lucid Vindaloo: Good to meet you all 🙂 I have to head out for the now 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: My concern with west is that we have a major road that can’t, aesthetically, go 100 meters into a new sim and then end 🙂
Sudane Erato: Claude, I will make sure there is right of way to the south
Lucid Vindaloo: Thank you, its been very interesting checking this all out 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: thanks for coming Lucid … see you later I hope 🙂
Sudane Erato: bye Lucid 🙂
Lucid Vindaloo: Take care 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let me check on enfdra once more.
Diderot Mirabeau: well that could be part of the challenge for those submitting a proposal 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: it could lead to the amphitheatre if nothing else …
Sudane Erato: well, yes.. I agree with that
Diderot Mirabeau: the Imperial Highway
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry, I’m back again!
Sudane Erato: wb 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: don’t be sorry for that .. we like to have you here 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Current bill says at least one unsold plot. Do we need to change that to give Guild flexibility in shaving off plot here and there?
Sudane Erato: no
Sudane Erato: I don’t think so… since a plot is not defined
Claude Desmoulins: I read the current language as requiring one entire plot to be converted to microplots.
Sudane Erato: I can make a plot in a moment 🙂
Sudane Erato: if you wish
Claude Desmoulins: Fair enough.
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, that’s the sneaky thing.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: its really a matter of administration…
Claude Desmoulins: Then we must define the difference between a microplot and a normal plot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4-15 anyone? 🙂
Sudane Erato: having all the microplots in one place makes them easier to keep track of
Claude Desmoulins: 4-14 references both.
Sudane Erato: a microplot is 16m2 and not allowed any objects
Aliasi Stonebender: Claude, the difference is already defined.
Sudane Erato: yes, i agree
Aliasi Stonebender: “a microplot is a …” what Sudane said.
Aliasi Stonebender: the bill *is* the definition.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Is a conventional plot anything larger than 16m2?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh.
Aliasi Stonebender: A conventional plot is anything under the usual covenants.
Aliasi Stonebender: the trick here is I don’t define the microplots by size.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I remember in the olden days that there was a limit on how small a plot should be… 🙂
Sudane Erato: I will dtermine that…. if I think the practical person can build on it
Aliasi Stonebender: I define them by COVENANT.
Sudane Erato: good
Diderot Mirabeau: so we have conventional plots and covenantial plots 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: And everything but P280 and the microplots is under the standard covenant?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, lol, Diderot
Sudane Erato: at the moment it is 92m2/ 23 prims
Aliasi Stonebender: exactly. And microplots and p280 are basically the same, save in who can buy each.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, things will really be interesting with SL 1.9…. no more need for ‘prim farms’!
Claude Desmoulins: Bill says…”divided into 16m^2 portions, priced accordingly. These “microplots” ”
Aliasi Stonebender: well, yes and no Gwyn
Sudane Erato: which means, its not the size that defines them
Aliasi Stonebender: you have to reduce the prim allocation elsewhere, so you still have effective prim farms, just…. without the farm.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, of course, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, you’ll sell plots by the number of prims in it ? not the size!
Sudane Erato: :(… sounds worse to administer
Claude Desmoulins: butthe bill text defines microplots as 16m2, doesn’t it?
Diderot Mirabeau envisions the Saharah desert in Second Life
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, yes, perhaps a bit harder, Sudane.
Sudane Erato: yes Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it also means, for instance, that you can get prims off the roads… and use them elsewhere.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, claude, but you don’t see what I’m getting at
Sudane Erato: but not the size of other plots
Aliasi Stonebender: the only difference between the prim farm and a microplot is the bit that says who can buy each.
Aliasi Stonebender: The only difference between those and a normal plot is the covenant they are under.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, Aliasi 🙂 That’s why it’s so neat a definition 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Just a sec….
Aliasi Stonebender: The entire point of this bill is to use already-existing things, instead of making wacky new definitions of citizenship.
Aliasi Stonebender: we could do this NOW without the bill
Sudane Erato: i agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Claude Desmoulins: Could we say, ” It is prohibited for a citizen owning a microplot to own any other Neualtenburg lot.”?
Aliasi Stonebender: the only thing the bill does is (a) specify the covenant and who can buy) and (b) mandate that it be done.
Aliasi Stonebender: That seems reasonable, Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I inferred that from the text: “It is prohibited for any citizen to own both a microplot and a normal plot, or to own more than one microplot.”
Claude Desmoulins: That would clarify it for me.
Diderot Mirabeau: or “upon buying other land in Neualtenburg the citizen forfeits his rigt to the microplot which then reverts back into city ownership free of charge”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do you think that Aliasi’s current text is not enough? “It is prohibited for any citizen to own both a microplot and a normal plot, or to own more than one microplot.”
Aliasi Stonebender: the basic idea is to keep people who have a normal plot from buying them, or for some possible person form buying up all the microplots.
Diderot Mirabeau: no it should suffice .. my addition only gives us back the microplot for free
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Diderot… hmm
Diderot Mirabeau: and that’s really not needed
Claude Desmoulins: As long as we have a common understanding that a conventional plot is anything larger than 16 m2
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, this is all a bit ‘temporary’… with new groups… and new tools for setting different prim allocations… all this has to be reviewed anyway!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But since that is still in the realm of speculation…
Claude Desmoulins: Since we have no quorum and the Guild can do this anyway, why not let them.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds reasonable to me, hehe
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll pass enabling legislation if we ever get enough people 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or use the 7-day vote.
Sudane Erato: sounds good
Aliasi Stonebender: yep. we should all be able to do this by email.
Claude Desmoulins: The last time we had a seven day vote, no one discussed for the first four dayss.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn *waves SC sceptre in benevolent admission of this issue*
Sudane Erato: and sometimes its the opposite 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Claude Desmoulins: We can go to seven day.
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, can you tell us about your special request.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As some of you might recall…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neualtenburg happened to host some ‘rally events’
Aliasi Stonebender: your bill claude, you have to poke people. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A group lead by Lenin Camus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is doing a rally for the Pro-Choice? group (re: abortion)
Diderot Mirabeau: quite a radical name
Gwyneth Llewelyn: SL-wide
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and they would like to drop by N’burg for 10-15 minutes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, since this is a ‘public’ thing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: although there are precedents
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it needs the explicit City approval
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, this is going to happen next Sunday.
Claude Desmoulins: I know the anti Iraq policy rally was seen by many as a galvanizing and defining moment for NBurg. But…
Sudane Erato: I certainly support it
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m not real wild about non-citizens using Neualtenburg.
Aliasi Stonebender: in that fashion
Aliasi Stonebender: it’d be different if a citizen was hosting it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are always ‘buts’, Claude, that is why this is something the RA has to approve or not.
Diderot Mirabeau: I don’t see why not .. isn’t it our ideal to facilitate public discourse in democratic fashions anyway? alhtough I fear the organisers may be a bit disappointed with the volume of traffic here maybe?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I guess they’re just going to take pictures.
Claude Desmoulins: …We’re just starting to shake the socialist image.
Diderot Mirabeau: ah
Sudane Erato: hehe…. that will take some time 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe not all Pro-Choice? guys are socialists 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, Lenin’s socialist bit doesn’t enter into it for me, Claude.
Diderot Mirabeau: this is not a partisan issue .. it is a question of allowing a public space to facilitate democratic activity
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Diderot, thus their request.
Aliasi Stonebender: A *neualtenburg* public space *neualtenburg citizens* pay for.
Aliasi Stonebender: I mean, it’d be totally different
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Aliasi ? you’re definitely right on that. It’s unarguable.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t mean socialist as much as radical leftist
Sudane Erato: but if we support the issue… we may wish to support the event
Aliasi Stonebender: if Lenin was a citizen and wanted to use his own land, or the Platz, as a citizen hosting an event where he lives.
Sudane Erato: by lending our space
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, I’m pro-choice myself
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh Sudane ? even if we don’t support the issue at all.
Sudane Erato: perhaps…
Diderot Mirabeau: oh yes I agree with that Aliasi .. and that’s why I wanted to point out that supporting a political event would be a way of promoting our founding principles …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that Aliasi is raising the real issue here: should Neualtenburg host events by non-Neualtenburgers, as a principle, or not?
Sudane Erato: but if we do… that casts us in a supporting role
Diderot Mirabeau: yes .. and if so .. is there a limit to what kind of issues we will extend this support to
Aliasi Stonebender: Diderot, while Neualtenburg is a political experiment
Claude Desmoulins: As am I, but if we explicitly allow them, do we send a message that we are unwelcoming to those wh dfeel differentl;y?
Aliasi Stonebender: we’ve been mostly about OUR politics
Aliasi Stonebender: not taking RL political stances. Ulrika and the SDF historically had SL-wide and RL stances, but not th ecity as a whole.
Diderot Mirabeau: I say if we allow one group to use our public space on an issue .. then the other group should be allowed in as well .. ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you…. I’m not sure if any of their members *are* citizens or not! Actually, I’ll participate on the rally as well, although NOT with a leftist sign lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Diderot ? this would set another precedent.
Aliasi Stonebender: You said Lenin Camus was leading it, that’s the only one I worried about. But if you, Gwyn, wanted to host it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I have another question… if SOME of the people on the group are N’burg citizens, but others aren’t, would you still have an argument with that, Aliasi?
Aliasi Stonebender: but specifically sponsored by you, I would have no trouble at all.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm?
Aliasi Stonebender: For me, it’s a matter of the ones organizing it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see.
Claude Desmoulins: And where do we draw the line between political speech and griefing?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, this will be no griefing!
Sudane Erato: why would they grief here?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Griefing = unauthorized
Gwyneth Llewelyn: as in irregular, mob, etc
Sudane Erato: that would spoil the point
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m gathering this is more just popping in, taking some pictures and maybe a little chat?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, the issue is more Aliasi’s point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Aliasi.
Diderot Mirabeau: as long as it is not speech which is in violation of the TOS?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Still it would be a non-Neualtenburg-organised event, no matter how we phrase the question.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes. My sympathies are with the cause they’re promoting, and I’d gladly offer my own PERSONAL plot for them to pop in
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But not public space.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand.
Aliasi Stonebender: exactly.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d lmost rather say that the Platz is public space and that as long as you don’t do anything wrong there…
Diderot Mirabeau: but public space should be even more open ..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: ..we won’t exclude people or invite them based on position.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it *is* an interesting issue 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, very
Diderot Mirabeau: well people can TP in freely can’t they?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, I feel pretty much divided among your opinions, you are *both* right!
Diderot Mirabeau: of their own individual accord?
Diderot Mirabeau: and they can wear any attachment that they like and say anything they like which is not in violation of the TOS?
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, Diderot, we have what we might call in my business law class I’m taking in RL an “invitee” relationship for specific purposes.
Claude Desmoulins: If we Okthis or forbid it, we must pass judgement on any group wanting to use public spaces in the sim.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Diderot, they can. But we have provisions somewhere, that public rallies, demonstrations, etc., need specific RA authorization.
Aliasi Stonebender: Also
Claude Desmoulins: Where?
Diderot Mirabeau: ah okay
Diderot Mirabeau: “in the forums”
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d damn well want to authorize it if they’re intending ot make it seem like Neualtenburg supports them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Where = the forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn: of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I draw the line there, Aliasi!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This should *not* be seen as a way of ‘endorsing’ a specific view by Neualtenburg.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d rather make it seem that the city government itself is neutral to their political position.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, I fully agree, Claude.
Diderot Mirabeau: I agree .. but for example gathering in front of the NY city hall does not carry any connotation of the city supporting an issue does it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather…. I would even go so far as to *insist* on that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Diderot.
Sudane Erato: thats right
Claude Desmoulins: But for their right to express themselves in our public spaces within the various TOS
Aliasi Stonebender: but if the action is limited to porting in and taking some screenshots, as diderot says… people can port in freely, can’t really do much about it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can definitely kick people out of the sim for ‘unruly’ behaviour!
Diderot Mirabeau: as long as they do not disturb the peace or prevent other visitors from enjoying our vendors 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And well… “unorganized”, “unauthorized” rallying…. would fall under that subject, I’m afraid.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I think we should be officially silent unless they “act up”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So what should we tell them?
Sudane Erato: 🙂 “silence”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Claude Desmoulins: It’s a public space. If anything.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: so we are afraid to issue a specific permit for fear of being associated with their views?
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: yes
Sudane Erato: no
Sudane Erato: its not fear…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As I read it, the argument Aliasi presented is that this would be something organised by a non-Neualtenburg group.
Sudane Erato: it is maybe we should not associate with any view
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that is the issue.
Diderot Mirabeau: can’t we just produce a statement pronouncing the official policy of supporting any legitimate political expression that stays within the TOS and founding documents but do not otherwise want to be associated with any cause being promoted on our grounds
Claude Desmoulins: Not afraid, but desiring not to offend or ostracize those who feel differently.
Claude Desmoulins: That’s a good idea.
Sudane Erato: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: Gwyneth .. something you might be able to draft?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Diderot… in a sense, we already have that. The only question is that the RA needs to approve those events if they’re to be held in public space, AND the City can designate a specific place for them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could search the forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Aliasi Stonebender: For maximum irony, we make them hold it in the church.
Sudane Erato: lol
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, sure!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The City could have that, yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: rolf
Claude Desmoulins: Or the biergarten 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: oooh, even better.
Aliasi Stonebender: That’s pretty German, when you get down to it. RALLY IN THE BAR
Sudane Erato: we should charge for that beer
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe we need a nonbinding resolution expressing what Diderot said.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you… this idea of ‘the City designating a spot’…. was meant to give us an opportunity to leave some types of demonstrations outside city walls, for instance…. due to lag…
Diderot Mirabeau: I say the only reason why the RA might choose to decline a rally would be for fear of it eliciting violent confrontation, TOS violation or breach of the peace
Claude Desmoulins: Right. I can see it from a crowd and traffic and lag control issue.
Sudane Erato: yes… that’s right 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, this would mean we would need to assign our police force to control them, lol
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bond harrington to the rescue!
Sudane Erato: hehe… Bond!.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: … and purely as private citizen action, I could set them all on fire.
Claude Desmoulins: We could approve it with an explanatory note that approval or lack thereof is related to lag and simulator resource issues…
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… if the designated spot is part of the N’burg Raumnutzer group… it should be easy to ‘control’.
Clint Turner: hi, is this open event
Claude Desmoulins: ,,,not to an endorsement or lack thereof of a particular viewe.
Diderot Mirabeau: sure Clint if you turn off the walkman 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, Clint 🙂 All Representative Assembly meetings are open to attend!
Clint Turner: no problem 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Not cicitzens may liten in but not addrss the ,eeting.
Clint Turner: ok
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry, can’t type tonight. My fingers must be lageing 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: sticky keys? 😛
Diderot Mirabeau: that happens to me all the time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What should be told to these guys?
Aliasi Stonebender: “You can show up, but we don’t endorse you, you don’t imply we do, and if you cause lag troubles we kick you out.”
Aliasi Stonebender: but nicer.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe… yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And which place should they use?
Diderot Mirabeau: official statement clarifying our offical policy on the issue …. issuing a specific permit .. explaining that we do not wish to affiliate ourselves with any political viewpoint .. and that refusals will only be given on the fear of lag and so on
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: well, the platz probably not… is the icerink kendra’s, or still the city’s?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I can *try* to fish that out from the forums….
Claude Desmoulins: Yes. Let’s take the official approval to 7 day.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good question, Aliasi.
Sudane Erato: its Kendra’s…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh on 7-day approval
Claude Desmoulins: I think Kendra’s
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since this is next *Sunday*.
Diderot Mirabeau: didn’t you say *next* Sunday Gwyneth? 🙂
Sudane Erato: but she built it for use buy the city and its guests
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I did!
Diderot Mirabeau: oh I always confuse that
Claude Desmoulins: We don’t have quorum until/unless Kendra shows.
Aliasi Stonebender: ah. well, then, church or biergarten, I’d say.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: I use coming and then next
Gwyneth Llewelyn: their choice then 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: church would be a blast
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: not literally of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me see if I can get Lenin here….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah! He’s available!
Diderot Mirabeau: it would be sure to provoke the opposing group to do a rally here the following week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I tp him in?
Sudane Erato: dwell 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Diderot Mirabeau: the neualtenburg way
Aliasi Stonebender: heh, that would be th ebest irony.
Diderot Mirabeau: we don’t need no stinking camping chairs
Claude Desmoulins: That wouldgoive us the opportunity to demonstrate our political neutrality .
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: we make the pro-choice socialist rally in the church, and the inevitible pro-life response in the biergarden.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… can I tp Lenin in
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve got no problems.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and have him understand our requirements?
Claude Desmoulins: Sure.
Sudane Erato: nor me, tho he’s not suppoed to talk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can address him, though 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Can weeinvite him to explain his proposal/request?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: He’s floating….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … just slightly to my left 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean right. Oops.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Lenin!
Lenin Camus: Hello.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lenin, we’ve been discussion your group’s request.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we have somewhat of a compromise, lol
Lenin Camus: Alright, great.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, I’m talking… although I shouldn’t…. hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: as I understand it, you’d be around just 10-15 mins ok?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Take some pictures, etc.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And then move to the next rally point?
Sudane Erato: and, how many people?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, how many do you expect?
Lenin Camus: We’re not sure about the number of people yet. We’re estimating around 30 to 40
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ouch, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that will be hard to fit inside the Biergarten!
Diderot Mirabeau: excellent
Lenin Camus: We may split up the participants into different locations to reduce lag.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, half on the Church, half on the Biergarten? 😀
Diderot Mirabeau: we should have our volunteer citizen police force ready then to keep everything orderly and offer guided tours 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Lenin Camus: Ulrika said that the SDF would back us, so I believe some Nualtenberg residents will be involved in the march.
Claude Desmoulins: Interesting to see wjo chooses which location.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Diderot
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, we’re wanting to keep people from clogging up the main Platz, if people come in on usual business.
Lenin Camus: We have hired security incase anyone gets out of hand, so don’t worry about that.
Diderot Mirabeau: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my. Militia!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: Lenin did you drop the book?
Lenin Camus: Nope.
Sudane Erato: 🙂 undercover 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… one thing you have to understand, Lenin.
Lenin Camus: Nope to Diderot, yes to Gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Officially, the City of Neualtenburg will not endorse your position
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. we remain fully neutral
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll ask for orderly behaviour (which is a natural request)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that you stick to some pre-arranged spots.
Lenin Camus: Of course, we’re just looking for some interesting places to march, and Nualtenberg is one of those places.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a reason beyond lag.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is also ‘control’ ? we have some public spaces, but most are private.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, while eventually some members of the SDF may support the rally, they’ll do it under their own name ? and not speak for neualtenburg.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is important
Lenin Camus: Yes, of course.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because ? who knows? ? other people might use N’burg for expressing contrary opinions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we should give them all fair chances to use our few public spaces.
Lenin Camus: We don’t want to impede or step on toes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although I might add that some people here might offer you using their private spaces as well 🙂 hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but that’s their own personal choice.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So hmm… 40 people?
Diderot Mirabeau considers what the curator of MoCA would make of an opportunity such as this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As mentioned before, we have two structures that you could use in principle: the Church and the Biergarten.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Lenin Camus: Possibly, but thy’ll probably be split between different locations. Some will be at the welcome area, Democracy Island has offered their Court room and a few other places.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The MoCA could eventually be used as well, I don’t know.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, I thought 40 people *in Neualtenburg*!
Claude Desmoulins: We haven’t passed anything. It’s still public land at the moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point, Claude!
Aliasi Stonebender: True, MoCA is an option.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Three options then.
Diderot Mirabeau: Fletch – our curator – would probably love to do someart event-thing around it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh definitely!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But again ? we have to remind him that he’ll do it on *personal* choice only
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and not representing Neualtenburg’s views
Diderot Mirabeau: I’d consider his position to be quite independent actually
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only ‘view’ that is represented… is the concept that the City, in principle, gives anyone ‘fair chance’ to do their public rallies.
Diderot Mirabeau: but let’s leave that aside
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anything I might have missed?
Diderot Mirabeau: no I think you guys are good to go
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just take a look at one of the three spots, Lenin…
Lenin Camus: I can’t thank you enough, I really appreciate you donating your space!
Diderot Mirabeau: and we appreciate the dwell …
Diderot Mirabeau laughs diabolically
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would probably expect the MoCA to be the best one…. it’s large enough
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Diderot 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Enjoy dwell while we can! This will go away soon.
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Church is actually big enough, of course, but, well…. LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Biergarten is fun, but a bit too cramped, if you have over 15 people here.
Lenin Camus: Don’t want to anger any pro-life Christians who might use the Church.
Sudane Erato: I’m sorry folks, but I must go….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Church is rather non-denominational….
Sudane Erato: I’ll leeave the MoCA discussion in Diderot’s capable hands
Diderot Mirabeau: Lenin .. the full name of our curator is Farfletched Ixchel .. if you want to stage it in the MoCA have a word with him .. he might be able to wrap something around it if you’d like …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: or we could just talk later
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, the church is a church because that’s what you’d find in a Bavarian town.
Lenin Camus: Will do.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also think Fletch will like the idea, yes 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: For clarification, we’ve moved 4-11, 4-13 and 4-14 to seven day?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: At which time will this take place, 3 PM, Lenin?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and I think so, Claude)
Lenin Camus: noon SLT
Lenin Camus: 3PM eastern standard
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, noon. Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 8 PM GMT for me, lol. Well, I’ll certainly be around!
Diderot Mirabeau: this is great .. I’m taking my two brothers for a tour of SL at 8 PM CET … this should come in handy
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s talk MoCA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Probably armed with a Kendra Suit of Armour and a Seburo!
Claude Desmoulins: Diderot?
Lenin Camus: I actually may not be able to make it, as I might have an RL meeting at time for an RL anti-war protest. If I’m not around and you have any questions talk to Renee Ingmann.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Diderot Mirabeau: well yes …
Diderot Mirabeau: about the MoCA Proposal …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, Lenin ? thanks for your time!
Lenin Camus: Talk to you guys later. Thanks again.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re welcome to listen to our continuing meeting, but I guess it might sound too boring for you, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye then 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: Farfletched, Sudane, Gwyneth and I have been discussing the issue to clear out any legacy obligations and flesh out the institutional framework of the arrangement
Gwyneth Llewelyn gets her agenda back on display
Diderot Mirabeau: and to summarise …
Diderot Mirabeau: the proposal is that an independent society of Neualtenburgers be formed .. from which a board will be elected to be responsible for the general oversight of the MoCA …
Diderot Mirabeau: this will be some sort of charity … and will probably be registered as a company ..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: very likely so 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: which will be entering into an obligation with the city … to run the MoCA according to specified criteria for a test period of six months
Diderot Mirabeau: and the Guild will be responsible on the Neualtenburg side to oversee the financial side of things …
Diderot Mirabeau: Farfletched will be employed as curator by the board of the society …
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Diderot Mirabeau: a general meeting has been announced for Tuesday next week open to all citizens
Diderot Mirabeau: it will be at 3 PM SLT
Diderot Mirabeau: this will be the founding meeting for the society and we expect to be able to approve of the charter and appoint a board …
Diderot Mirabeau: I encourage every citizen of Neualtenburg with an interest in art to show up .. it will be at the MoCA …
Diderot Mirabeau: also we happily accept anonymous donations of L$
Claude Desmoulins: Any questions?
Diderot Mirabeau: so what we need from the RA is actually just a nod of acknowledgement to our charter in the form of the resolution
Diderot Mirabeau: and an approval of the proposed agreement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ys 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: 4-15 and 4-16 respectively
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll have to go to 7 day on these too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7-day vote again….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I fear for the meeting on Tuesday. Hopefully the RA can get a vote before that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Fletch is online… he should join us… hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: ah well Gwyneth not to worry …
Diderot Mirabeau: it need not be formally approved at the founding meeting .. the society will commit to its business whether or not the agreement is in place
Diderot Mirabeau: if not we will just have to lobby for having it approved in a timely fashion
Diderot Mirabeau: or we could take our business elsewhere 😉
Diderot Mirabeau smiles smugly
Diderot Mirabeau hopes that was not construed as an ultimatum!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bewae of ultimatums 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or even *beware
Diderot Mirabeau: did you IM Fletch Gwyneth?
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion on the incorporation/registration and bank bills?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet, Diderot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Claude ? do you mean that there are no questions at all regarding the MoCA? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s good to hear 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: well we have been four persons discussing it and preparing it already so I would expect most of the glitches to have been ironed out
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry. I’m frustrated withthe quorum problems we’ve been having.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙁
Diderot Mirabeau: me too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, who is the 5th member anyway? Besides Kendra and (hopefully) Seldon?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, FR
Claude Desmoulins: I have a problem with weekends in that it makes me ask my wife to watch two toddlers for several hours while I sit in a virtual meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can’t imagine what kept Kendra, she usually is around 4 PM PST at home…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, anyway…. that’s why we have the 7-day vote.
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe she thought we weren’t meeting.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t have any MoCA questions.
Claude Desmoulins: 4-17 and 4-18 are thornier and more complex.
Claude Desmoulins: well, 4-17 is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so the 4-15 and 4-16 can go on the 7-day vote without any further issues, is that so?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, 4-17, hehe
Claude Desmoulins: BTW there’s already an optional update.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. I got that info from a friend as well 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: a patch?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Diderot Mirabeau: grrr
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should fix ‘texture problems lagging your client and shiny (which apparently is broken)’
Aliasi Stonebender: presuming that the bill is materially the same as the last I saw on the forum, my only substantial objection is I don’t think corporations should be able to hold *any* public office, not just the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Aliasi
Claude Desmoulins: I agree.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the idea was that eventually they might hold an office on the Guild 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: what could “an office” be for example?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, imagine that the Chamber of Commerce is run by a company 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: public janitor? 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or the Notary,.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or the Foreign Ministry…. 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t know, having a corporation as Guildmaster doesn’t sit well with me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I’m personally not going to defend that, lol
Diderot Mirabeau: hmm this could be done by way of delegation as I see it
Claude Desmoulins: This gets back to what’s a civil service job and what’s an office.
Diderot Mirabeau: they would not need to be in the office per se
Diderot Mirabeau: but could simply bid in a tender to carry out that particular function
Aliasi Stonebender: eh, it’s still the idea. The point of corporations, historically
Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw which section details that a ‘corporation’ cannot sit on the RA?
Claude Desmoulins: Two things I notice.
Aliasi Stonebender: was to lessen risk to any individual person, while undertaking matters that could show a return on investment.
Aliasi Stonebender: the treating a corp as a person grew out of this.
Claude Desmoulins: III, 8 Gwyn.
Aliasi Stonebender: but I don’t think we should swallow the legal fiction entirely.
Diderot Mirabeau: Art 3 sec 8
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, it’s a later development ? and thank you Diderot & Claude
Aliasi Stonebender: A corporation is *not* an actual living, breathing human being.
Diderot Mirabeau: I agree
Aliasi Stonebender: And I think Neualtenburg should always be run by actual people.
Diderot Mirabeau: what we have at present are pretty embryonic structures
Claude Desmoulins: Diderot, what did you mean by III -8
Diderot Mirabeau: and we might want to gather some experience with how they will actually work before letting the reins loose on them and giving them all sorts of citizen’s rights
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, can we amend Art 3, Section 8 to simply state “cannot vote in nor stand as a candidate in any Governmental branch”?
Claude Desmoulins: Do other branches have candidates?
Diderot Mirabeau: well III-8 was put in to reverse the previous situation which was that a company did not have any other rights than those explicitly granted to them in the bill .. since some people thought it might be too restrictive otherwise
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, they are ‘inside’ candidates, in the sense that they’re elected by their peers.
Diderot Mirabeau: for the exercise of free enterprise
Diderot Mirabeau: and those rights were limited more or less to entering into obligations with other parties
Claude Desmoulins: It’s clear we don’t wantto give the company political rights. What rights do we want it to have that aren’t economic (sue and be sued, for example)?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, they need to comply with all N’burg laws….
Diderot Mirabeau: ah the duties portion right .. forgot about that part of the rationale
Gwyneth Llewelyn: things as simple as ‘respecting covenants’
Claude Desmoulins: What about Gwy’ns suggestion, with a broad definition of candidate, it will work.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Basically, this was a long discussion I had with Diderot. We have a body of laws that applies to citizens, and I don’t think we should have a *separate* body of laws for corporations as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, when one bill is passed that affects citizens…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It should affect corporations as well.
Diderot Mirabeau: I have the transcript for reference .. should we need it 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe great, Diderot 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: However we need corporate law to institute reporting and accounting requirements, for example.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The exception, of course, is that corporations should not have the right to vote or to be elected.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is implicit in one of the articles… let me see…
Diderot Mirabeau: art 5 sec 3 for example?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, thank you Diderot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it.
Claude Desmoulins: Does this require a certain proportion of company officers to be citizens?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…
Diderot Mirabeau: well …
Diderot Mirabeau: as it stands ..
Diderot Mirabeau: there are _no_ requirements on citizenship for incorporated companies …
Claude Desmoulins: and 4-2 for unlimiied livbility companies.
Diderot Mirabeau: whereas with companies that are only registered (i.e. companies with unlimited liability) all owners need to be citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, hmm, lol
Diderot Mirabeau: the rationale being …
Diderot Mirabeau: that presumably the big fish that we’d like to attract will want to incorporate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … but not become citizens themselves. Yes.
Diderot Mirabeau: and might not feel tempted to become citizens as well in fact would only consider it a bureaucratic nusiance .
Diderot Mirabeau: and since we keep their money in escrow .. there’s really no security concern that necessitates it
Claude Desmoulins: Why not expect them to buy microplots? Although you have a point about the escrow.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, Diderot, I still think that the *directors* (or however they’re called) should be citizens, because there is such a thing as *personal* responsability.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. the ones that sign documents on behalf of the company
Gwyneth Llewelyn: may be subject not only to the Commerce Court
Claude Desmoulins: The empowered persons.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but also the Criminal Court
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the +empowered persons’
Diderot Mirabeau: so you mean anyone who is able to perform acts on behalf of the company in accordance with the empowerment criteria?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Diderot Mirabeau: yes
Diderot Mirabeau laughs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: well …
Diderot Mirabeau: I would have no beef with that it could be easily implemented
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just because they have traditionally civil and criminal responsabilities in RL jurisdictions….
Diderot Mirabeau: although we might want to know the position of key corporate actors in the field that we might like to attract
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although the rest of the shareholders ? even the majority of stock! ? *could* be held by, uh, ‘foreign’ residents (ie. non-citizens)
Claude Desmoulins: The other thing I’d look at inthe 10 minutes we have left is the banning of Neualtenburg from company names.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a good one to discuss!
Claude Desmoulins: I know we don’t want to imply city endorsement.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the idea.
Claude Desmoulins: But what if being here is the distinguishing feature. Yes I’m thinking of the School here 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Neualtenburg Anshe Chung MegaCorp” somehow sounds… wrong…. 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: well if we don’t leave it in there .. there’s nothing to keep any outsider from incorporating here and calling his company “Neualtenburg fachwerks”
Claude Desmoulins: Then Diderot, as an aside, what shall the Neualtenburg School change it’s name to, Trustee as you are? 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Diderot Mirabeau: right .. didn’t think of that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Claude ? what about “the usage of the Neualtenburg name is restricted and has to be approved by the Chamber of Commerce”?
Diderot Mirabeau: on what grounds?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: good pint.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Diderot Mirabeau: the key thing is ..
Claude Desmoulins: I could live withthat, if we set criteria.
Diderot Mirabeau: we only want to endorse the use of the name …
Claude Desmoulins: Good[point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude… what is the criteria in the US?
Diderot Mirabeau: for companies that actually live here .. carry out their business here and have a substantial involvement in city life
Claude Desmoulins: None that I can tell.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, US Robotics 🙂 They use US in the name 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: perhaps we could tie it in with requirements for citizenship by all owners
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No criteria at all. Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Around here, the name ‘Portugal’ is also restricted to corporations having public funding. The same applies to using city names, etc.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They might be private companies, though, but approval is restricted to ‘having public use’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Claude Desmoulins: On the other hand, Neualtenburg Body Parts makes me squirm .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that somehow we *could* delegate that issue to the Chamber of Commerce….
Diderot Mirabeau: and just put in a wording that lists the main criteria along which a name would be judged for feasibility?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The idea is, Neualtenburg is a trademark. Not a *registered* trademark, but a trademark as well.
Claude Desmoulins: Could we ask the CoC to do guidelines and have the Guild and RA approve them?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, right now, the CoC does not exist ? Sudane has to delegate that function 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: I don’t see why not .. but .. well .. _who_ are the CoC at this time?
Diderot Mirabeau: indeed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s Sudane 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: By definition, Sudane is *everything* in the Guild that she hasn’t delegated yet, hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: oh alright let’s pass the ball to her then shall we . that’s easy seeing as she’s not here 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Claude Desmoulins: She wants to do the platz first.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, actually, I agree. Let’s amend that section!
Claude Desmoulins: I need to go. Can we move 17 and 18 to seven day.
Claude Desmoulins: And trhen adjourn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I have to go to sleep as well, lol
Diderot Mirabeau: to allow for the use of any name in principle but give the CoC the power of veto against unsuitable names … for which it would establish some guideliens or criteria
Diderot Mirabeau: yes let’s move on
Diderot Mirabeau: two amendments have been noted
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll talk it on the forums.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do agree on that amendment proposal, Diderot.
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we move all the constitution stuff to 7 day too?
Diderot Mirabeau: isn’t there a requirement for a reinforced quorum for those?
Aliasi Stonebender: yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, right!
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, which we can get viaa seven day vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we? 🙂 hehe
Claude Desmoulins: We hope 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, technically a “constitutional amendment” is a bill… 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: that settles it then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless the RA votes otherwise…. hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections to adjournment moving the whole agenda to seven day?
Claude Desmoulins: Hearing none… so ordered.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only one having eventual legitimate objections would be Aliasi… 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjourned.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!
The meeting closed at 17:43 Linden time.RA meeting: March 11, 2006
Those present:
Aliasi Stonebender is in the chair.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Aliasi Stonebender: and now the recorder is on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pelanor, you’re welcome to a seat… oops, he just fell asleep.
Kendra Bancroft: You just sat there so you could stare romantically at me across the table, Aliasi
Aliasi Stonebender: alright, we don’t have the notecard with an agenda, but I believe you all have seen the forum or email post.
Pelanor Eldrich: thx…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, wb, Pelanor.
Aliasi Stonebender: So first item up is bill 4-19, Prim Allotment
Aliasi Stonebender: http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=92362
Kendra Bancroft: are we discussing first –or just voting now
Aliasi Stonebender: The gist of this seems to be to allow public institutions, such as the MoCA, to use the “city” prims.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, discuss a bit, since no one did a followup on Sudane’s post.
Seldon Metropolitan: and to let them ebb back and forth as needs dictate prim alottment
Aliasi Stonebender: now, with 1.9 and the ability to shift prims around in the estate tools, this may not be strictly necessary.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A reminder: in about 3 days, the whole system of prim allotments will change, so this suggestion by Sudane is a good starting point to regulate that!
Aliasi Stonebender: But either way, it seems to be the same intent to me.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, Gwyn!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah ? I mean, there is still ‘regulation’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, I’m typing slow ? too late for me 😀
Aliasi Stonebender: Since the “city” land generally uses fewer prims than it could.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, there should be regulation, and this bill fits in nicely.
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, it’ slate for me too, Gwyn.
Aliasi Stonebender: Indeed. And this is a bit looser than trying to do the math for prim bonus allotments like the estate tools will allow.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do agree 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I have an aye on this with a caveat
Aliasi Stonebender: more a “here’s the prims, don’t go too crazy.”
Aliasi Stonebender: yes?
Kendra Bancroft: The church needs prim editing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, DEFINITELY.
Seldon Metropolitan: hasnt the renovation of the church been kicked around for a whie?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Long overdue!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…
Seldon Metropolitan: like a while a while?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 😀
Kendra Bancroft: But we have never asked the Guild to take the job
Aliasi Stonebender: So you’ve mentioned, and I agree. That’s really a seperate matter, though one we need to takle.
Aliasi Stonebender: tackle
Seldon Metropolitan: I think formalizing the administration of the alottment of city prims is a good thing
Aliasi Stonebender: perhaps someone should submit a formal bill. Perhaps you’ll make me do it.
Kendra Bancroft: I propose a rider to this bill calling for the church to be renovated
Gwyneth Llewelyn *winks* at Kendrfa 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or even Kendra…. ack
Kendra Bancroft: Edit the prims in the church by at least 25%
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Aliasi Stonebender: I mean, do you want us to just say “Guild, make the church use less prims” and hope it isn’t done by deleting the building? 😉
Seldon Metropolitan: which wouldnt be too rough on the build
Aliasi Stonebender: 25%, good, concrete numbers.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you mean, Aliasi, “hope”?!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Kendra Bancroft: Frankly I could edit half –but at least 25% is easily doable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a serious question… we need BladeDancer? to give permissions, right?
Aliasi Stonebender: 25% is an acceptable minimum, anything else is a bonus.
Kendra Bancroft: No.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is he readily available?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “No” sounds good!
Kendra Bancroft: You could delete the prims that need editing by unlinking it with selecting solitary prims and redoing sections
Kendra Bancroft: It’s what I did with the Biergarten
Kendra Bancroft: and I knocked 25% off that structure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That sounds like magic to me, Kendra, but you’re the expert here 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that sounds perfectly reasonable.
Kendra Bancroft: It’s really not a hard job
Aliasi Stonebender: Sounds good to me, and I’ll assume you know what you’re talking about. Well, actually, I’ve worked out bits that could be redone myself, so I KNOW you know, but anyway.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Great to know that 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway… yes… nothing else to add on this bill?
Kendra Bancroft: not for me –if we attach a decrease prim count by 25% to the church
Kendra Bancroft: it’s a great bill
Seldon Metropolitan: Im fine with it as it stands.
Aliasi Stonebender: Okay, if there’s nothing more to say… let’s vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if the RA would need to appoint members for the Prim Management Committee, or if only the Guild needs to do that? (makes more sense)
Kendra Bancroft: Aye
Aliasi Stonebender: Aye
Seldon Metropolitan: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay! 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: That’s a Guild function
Aliasi Stonebender: Guild, I’d say Gwyn. It SAYS guild-based in the bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, excellent. Just to have it on record 🙂
Seldon Metropolitan: hiya claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, our fearless leader of the RA is here ? welcome, Claude!
Aliasi Stonebender: you can have your seat. 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I think in my getup tonight I should have a white cat in my lap like a Bond villain
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks.Still rezzing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol @ Kendra 😀
Aliasi Stonebender: Mr. Bigglesworth?
Kendra Bancroft: I was thinking Rosa Klebs –but okay
Claude Desmoulins: Just a asec while I skim transcript
Claude Desmoulins has indicated consent to be recorded.
Aliasi Stonebender: Okay, 4-19 is passed, with the rider…
Claude Desmoulins: which rider.
Seldon Metropolitan: that the prim count of the church be reduced by 25%
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that work on that starts ‘soon’
Claude Desmoulins: I had a question about this, actually.
Claude Desmoulins: What the current list of entities that would be able to take advantage of this prim sharing?
Kendra Bancroft: TY, Gwyn!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Kendra ? lovely
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Claude, the bill states the following ones:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “the Museum, the School, and possibly if they should fall in this catagory in the future, the Church, the Biergarten and the Schloss”
Claude Desmoulins: Ok. Here’s the rub.
Kendra Bancroft: and –Altenburg –yeah that’s the ticket
Claude Desmoulins: If all the School trustees on RA recuse themselves, as they probably ought…
Claude Desmoulins: Who does that leave us, or rather , does the Guild admin all this?
Claude Desmoulins: Apologies over the agenda.
Claude Desmoulins: The Linux client has no cut and paste.
Kendra Bancroft: We would vote on which buildings –The Guild would just have oversight that prims stay within their set limits
Kendra Bancroft: I think the Guild should determine the prim alottment
Claude Desmoulins: I did not have time to type up the bills manually.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Well if it’s passed, its passed and we hope no one complains.
Kendra Bancroft: we’re only voting which buildings have this status
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t feel the RA should get into micro-managing prims
Claude Desmoulins: BTW, everyone. Please touch the recorder. There have been some concerns about chat recording and ToS.
Kendra Bancroft: That sounds “guildish” to me
Kendra Bancroft has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Seldon Metropolitan has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, lol
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Aliasi Stonebender: (I turned it on, so I’m guessing I shouldn’t touch it again.)
Claude Desmoulins: My concern over an appearence of conflict of interest is how does it look when an RA including 3 (2 present) school trustees votes to allow the school to prim share?
Claude Desmoulins: It doesn’t matter, Aliasi.
Kendra Bancroft: I think that’s a concern –but we don’t have a quorum to vote that bill here
Claude Desmoulins: To stop it requires a non audible chat.
Claude Desmoulins: What do you mean we don’t have a quorum?
Kendra Bancroft: But I’m simply an investor –does an investor need to recuse themself as well?
Kendra Bancroft: If everyone involved in the school recuses –we have how many RA members to vote on that?
Claude Desmoulins: For that matter, the school as an entity doesn’t exist.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Claude Desmoulins: two
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Claude Desmoulins: Yet
Claude Desmoulins: See the problem?
Kendra Bancroft: I would say –when the matter comes up then –submit to the Guild for muni status
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t see it as a BIG problem.
Claude Desmoulins: Now since the school charter is still in draft.
Claude Desmoulins: And no money has changed hands,
Aliasi Stonebender: So the school gets lumped in with the “if they should fall in this category” buildings.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m the only one on the hook tonight with this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that sounds reasonable, Aliasi.
Kendra Bancroft: exactly –when we cross that bridge –let thye Guild decide if it’s a muni project
Kendra Bancroft: we’re voting on the creation of that status and how it affects prim count
Seldon Metropolitan: yea, thats reasonable.
Claude Desmoulins: I may be the only one who needs to recuse at this point.
Aliasi Stonebender: The actual provisions of the bills – 1) and 2) – allow the Guild a lot of latitude.
Aliasi Stonebender: So even if there WAS a conflict, or the school is deemed unsuitable, it doesn’t really seem as if it matters.
Kendra Bancroft: At the moment –you don’t even have an architectural plan for the school
Claude Desmoulins: The bill as worded puts the school in the category.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let’s interpret that bill as Aliasi did.
Claude Desmoulins: It’s the Guildmaster’s bill.
Kendra Bancroft: exactly
Aliasi Stonebender: The institution agrees to participate in a Guild-based Prim management Committee.
Kendra Bancroft: It’s the Guildmaster’s Bill –and it’s up for the Guildmaster to determine zoming
Aliasi Stonebender: If the institution does not yet exist, it cannot be said to agree to anything. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely.
Claude Desmoulins: True. We hoep to have a school charter for the RA to examine next week. How will we handle that?
Kendra Bancroft: Of course if I were still Gildemeister –I’d zone it as a Party school
Kendra Bancroft: and have nightly keggers
Claude Desmoulins: Recusals and quorum problem as noted previously.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well hmm we can think about it, but…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this is not the Senate of Rome
Kendra Bancroft: hence no vomitorium
Gwyneth Llewelyn: where you have to give up your work in the CIty
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and ROFL Kendra 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I just meant that there is nothing under the constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that prevents people to have a role on other institutions
Aliasi Stonebender: Also, I’d say that having an interest in some project is not necessarily a conflict of interest; all citizens by nature have an interest in the affairs of the city.
Claude Desmoulins: What about….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and have voting power on the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *except* for membership on Guild/SC
Kendra Bancroft: OMG — hang on it’s so hot in Brooklyn tonight –I have to turn on my AC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Aliasi.
Kendra Bancroft:
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, that’s the only one prohibited under our law.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay, cool, Kendra 😀
Claude Desmoulins: Article I section 8
Gwyneth Llewelyn: of the Constitution, Claude?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Aliasi Stonebender: Are you getting any money from the School?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Claude Desmoulins: No. I’m paying through the nose at the moment 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Interesting, so lobbying if forbidden. Good point 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: then we’re not in trouble.
Claude Desmoulins: I hope to get some at some point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let’s put it this way…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “what might be considered a conflict of interest” needs interpretation.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that the SC can do tomorrow 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: i just want us to think ahead about how we will handle the significant overlap between the school leadership and the city leadership.
Claude Desmoulins: that exists currently
Aliasi Stonebender: As an interpretational issue, that IS a matter for the SC, like Gwyn said.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t think there;s a problem as long as everything is above board.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we’d need the School Charter to analyse first, of course.
Kendra Bancroft: hahaha –the new RA –it’s about delegation, stupid 😉
Claude Desmoulins: We being RA or SC?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry ? SC, since I’m not RA any more, hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Let me drop you the first draft with a request for an advisory opinion. There are a couple of errors (ownership percentages ) in it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, sure.
Kendra Bancroft: Gwyn you only left cos you didn’t want to be in the same branch as me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Claude Desmoulins: That shouldn’t affect the relationship with the city.
Kendra Bancroft: I swear if I join the SC –Gwyn’ll go right to the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my, Kendra.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d move to table 4-20. I agree with Diderot that we need to get the incorp/registration thing running before we set up for consumer banking.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We did not reveal the SDF’s secret plans to take over all institutions… so we’d need to spread ‘voting power’ among the three branches 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: I agree.
Kendra Bancroft: I second tabling this one
Seldon Metropolitan: fine with me
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Kendra Bancroft: And of course you’re right, Gwyn
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ll want to revisit it, but let’s crawl before running…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4-20? 😉
Kendra Bancroft: 4-20 already has my “aye” but discuss if you like
Claude Desmoulins: Lee Dimsums banking regulation bill.
Claude Desmoulins: What’s 4-20 then, in your numbering?
Kendra Bancroft: Isn’t that the banking one?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Kendra Bancroft: I vote “aye” –but I’m saying it should be discussed if anyone has questions
Claude Desmoulins: I’m worried about getting swamped with structure we don’t have people power to implement.
Kendra Bancroft: I’ve decided to table my “Isenland” colony for the time being if that helps
Claude Desmoulins: We have three votes to table.
Claude Desmoulins: What about Birka?
Kendra Bancroft: I renamed Birka “Isenland”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’m very confused.
Kendra Bancroft: but I’m not preopared to go with it right now
Seldon Metropolitan: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, on the banking issue, there are two things…
Kendra Bancroft: Just a name change, Claude
Claude Desmoulins: Isenland was in Takalo
Kendra Bancroft: Isenland sounds more nifty
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –Isenland is in takalo
Kendra Bancroft: Birka is going to become a tourist trap
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I think that first we need the neualtenburg bank as an institution
Claude Desmoulins: What’s in Funadama?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and afterwards, have private banking.
Kendra Bancroft: Birka is in Funadama
Claude Desmoulins nods at Gwyn
Kendra Bancroft: it’s not going to be a factor
Kendra Bancroft: I’d be making the colony in Takalo
Claude Desmoulins: Ok
Kendra Bancroft: I like ti better there –since it borders on Anzere –where we started
Claude Desmoulins: The one thing about tabling 4-20
Claude Desmoulins: is that Pelanor and Lee are itching to start banks here.
Kendra Bancroft: I vote aye
Claude Desmoulins: Is that fair?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: May I point to Diderot’s suggestion for a roadmap: http://forums.secondlife.com/showpost.php?p=918539&postcount=7
Claude Desmoulins: I like that, although Pelanor may not 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I’m a big fan of this proposal
Claude Desmoulins: I like it a lot in principal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, well… the RA is fully empowered to do what they wish on this subject, though.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I do like a lot of it myself 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I just want to make sure we get it right.
Kendra Bancroft: I just wanna build a real neat looking bank
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, I guess the SC will also talk a bit about that tomorrow (hint, hint)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’d certainly discuss with my peers if we should have banking without the ‘State Bank’ first…
Claude Desmoulins: Then let’s table and let the SC weigh in with some sort of advisory
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We might recommend officially Diderot’s roadmap.
Claude Desmoulins: We have a state bank as of last week unless the SC vetos it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I can only talk for myself at the moment!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Claude Desmoulins: It’s just very poorly defined at the moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Pelanor.
Pelanor Eldrich: Here, your honor
Claude Desmoulins: How patient are you willing to be?
Kendra Bancroft: Shouldn’t the Guild also weigh in? The Constitution has them as the financial end of the Government
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just wanted to add that, Kendra…
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m ok with it, I planned to offer mortgages long before I accept savings deposits.
Claude Desmoulins: Pelanor, you do know that as a citizen, you can chime in any time here?
Claude Desmoulins: BRB crying baby.
Kendra Bancroft: I am not a crying baby!
Kendra Bancroft pouts
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the RA should also officially & formally ask for the Guild to provide their feedback.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Kendra 😀
Aliasi Stonebender: I concur.
Pelanor Eldrich: I thought I had to be quiet and observe, it’s the RA only that could speak.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no Pelanor.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, thx.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All citizens can speak, discuss, talk…
Kendra Bancroft: No –despite the lavish furnishings we’re quite informal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just non-citizens that should be silent 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: ah..
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, citizens can speak freely. I did all the time!
Aliasi Stonebender: (even if people didn’t want me to!)
Kendra Bancroft: Couldn’t shut me up when I was Gildemeister
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Citizens can also propose bills. The real difference between being a RA member is that they can *vote* bills into laws.
Claude Desmoulins: No, my 22 month old.
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is not a RA member and hasn’t stopped talking 😉
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, 6 months might be ok. I still need to build the web infrastructure to handle the ATM part. My concerns are that Ginko doesn’t get favored treatment and that a starting state escrow not be to much beyond L$10k
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pelanor.
Kendra Bancroft: we have no formal agreements with Ginko –we just put them in for shits and giggles
Claude Desmoulins: The debate I saw on the forums about this was about escrow level, delay time of startup, and reserve ratio.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ginko technically just has an ATM
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Claude.
Aliasi Stonebender: After hearing of the avatar sensing stuff Ginko has in their ATMs, and their reluctance to answer questions afterward, I’m not entirely wild about having a Ginko ATM here now anyway.
Kendra Bancroft: I agree, Aliasi
Kendra Bancroft: Ginko was mostly an Ulrika arrangement anyways
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s another story entirely.
Claude Desmoulins: The Platz renovation is reall a guild thing…
Pelanor Eldrich: tough to regulate without a formal agreement with Ginko. My reserve ration will be much higher than RL, I could handle a 6 month delay for savings deposits, but I’d like to offer mortgages within 8 weeks if I jump thought all the hoops.
Pelanor Eldrich: *ratio
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m partially at fault there, either. At a time, we thought we should get as many ‘attraction points’ to the City, and ATMs for all the systems were a good start.
Kendra Bancroft: we could get rid of Ginko at any time –we have no agreement with them do we?
Aliasi Stonebender: The past is the past. I just wanted to get that on-record.
Claude Desmoulins: but maybe we shoul recommend to Sudane that she tell Ginko if they want to be on Platz….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Kendra, we can just remove the ATM…
Seldon Metropolitan: indeed
Pelanor Eldrich: I have a sample letter to Ginko, if Sudane is interested.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Claude, actually Sudane delegated that task to me, but I have completely forgotten it 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: …they bid like anyone else and become citizens if they get a spot.
Pelanor Eldrich: Works for me.
Kendra Bancroft: Then just remove the ATM –I understood when we had GOM there –but Ginko was just an afterthought
Claude Desmoulins: Thus they would be subject to whatever banking rules we enact.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, and FYI ? even if they get a spot here as citizens, they won’t be a N’burg-regulated entity!!
Claude Desmoulins: Unless/Until we regulate on sim banking.
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t want a non fed bank if we establish a fed bank here
Kendra Bancroft: mind you, I might go into usury myself
Claude Desmoulins: If we do that, we don’t grandfather anyone.
Claude Desmoulins: Speaking of….
Claude Desmoulins: 4-21
LostDog? Hugz Sphere – Male Edition: Using hug (type ‘hug name’ or ‘/1hug name’ to activate)
LostDog? Hugz Sphere – Male Edition: ‘partner’ is using: Seconday Hug
Kendra Bancroft: Claude Gink doesn’t pay rent here — it doesn’t have anything to do with any legacy on the platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and here comes Diderot…
Diderot Mirabeau: (hi everybody — perfect timing I see)
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane has obtained the assent of the “grandfathered” parties on the Platz to enter the CCD.
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s basically something that was placed informally and not removed, Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, to easy everyone’s mind, I’d say, lets remove the Ginko terminal now, and we can always talk to Nicholas afterwards.
Kendra Bancroft: Hiya, Dido
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Claude Desmoulins: Can we move to 4-21
Kendra Bancroft: please –I only have 23 minutes til matt Dillon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: Hey, I might be a lesbian –but I’m not dead
Aliasi Stonebender: and I have a similar amount of time before I pass into unconciousness.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Ginko terminal returned 😉 Now we just need a new glass window 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: yayyyy –let’s egg it
Claude Desmoulins: I think the Guild has that power.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I got a confirmation that the item was returned. Wow.
Claude Desmoulins: No vote necessary.
Diderot Mirabeau: so a recap please … will we allow unlicensed retail banking or not?
Kendra Bancroft: No unliscensed banking –though I’m going to be a bookie
Claude Desmoulins: That’s been tabled for SC and Guild input.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s the thing….
Diderot Mirabeau: okay thanks for the heads up on that … bookie sounds like an excellent occupation 😛
Kendra Bancroft: It’s brooklyn thang
Diderot Mirabeau: he
Claude Desmoulins: For example, Pelanor is intersted in doing just mortgages first.
Claude Desmoulins: Since he wouldn’t take deposits, things like reserve ratio wouldn’t apply.
Kendra Bancroft: Can I make toasters to give to people who open new accounts, Pel?
Diderot Mirabeau: sure .. why not .. the only thing I’m a bit worried about is individuals lending their money to an unlicensed bank .. but mortgages don’t cover that
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll be forwarding my proposal to the guild. I want to work within the law and wishes of the RA. I prefer pragmatic regulation to unlicensed banking. Toasters, yes, definately.
Kendra Bancroft: Then really your opening a Savings and Loan to start with?
Claude Desmoulins: In that sense our desire to move slowly in drawing up frameworks for banking doesn’t really slow Pelanor down.
Diderot Mirabeau: if we’re able to meet in a compromise to mutual satisfaction that would be most excellent ..
Claude Desmoulins: The message I want to send to potential bankers is this:
Kendra Bancroft: Why not vote it in then –and let the SC and AG sort out the devils in the details?
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes, mortgages are the primary revenue stream. Until I have customers successfully pay off a mortgage, I wouldn’t offer them savings. And in any case I need to web/scripting in place to accept ATM type desposit transactions, so I can handle a delay.
Pelanor Eldrich: 6 month wait on deposits is fine with me.
Claude Desmoulins: If you want to come in and start up in this environment with no regulation, you can, but….
Claude Desmoulins: when regulation comes, you’ll have to adapt to it.
Kendra Bancroft: as any citizen must already do
Pelanor Eldrich: Not a problem, happy to and I’ll keep Sudane fully informed of what I’m doing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can’t get more reasonable than that 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: sounds fair … although I’d say that we should still consider protecting individuals from being con’ed by unwholesome financial institutions should we attract such ones under our unlicensed regime
Claude Desmoulins: Diderot, can you sumamize your concerns about Lee’s bill as originally presented?
Diderot Mirabeau: oops caught me shorthanded there I’m afraid …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Diderot, I was suggesting that the RA uses your roadmap as a guideline…
Diderot Mirabeau: the main thing I was concerned about is that it was a bit narrow in scope in that it sets up very specific restrictions on one type of institution namely the private bank .. but doesn’t much say anything about the role of the N’burg bank irt to those
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, there is a ‘Neualtenburg Bank Authority’
Diderot Mirabeau: and as I see it .. the N’burg bank should become the hub in a hub/spoke arrangement of financial institutions since it will allow the city / guild a rein
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry *Comission
Diderot Mirabeau: in the development of such institutions …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Neualtenburg Banking Commission (NBC) is responsible for issuing banking licenses, enforcing banking laws and regulating banks. ”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I think that this is rather the Neualtenburg ‘State’ Bank
Diderot Mirabeau: but why have a commission if it can be dealt with under the auspices of the bank
Claude Desmoulins: Is there a commission, or just a bank>
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not a separate comission.
Pelanor Eldrich: sorry, SL crashed on me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Lee’s proposal asks for a ‘comission’.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Pelanor!
Claude Desmoulins: The bank exists.
Pelanor Eldrich: thx
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed
Diderot Mirabeau: at the time it was drafted there was no clear vision of what the N’burg bank would become .. apart from what Gwyneth might have envisioned then
Claude Desmoulins: Ok we’re tablng to wait for SC and Guild.
Claude Desmoulins: Now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not too fond of having Guild, N’burg Bank, N’burg Bank COmission, all regulating the same thing…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Claude Desmoulins: 4-21
Diderot Mirabeau: well here it’s actually 5.21 AM 😉
Kendra Bancroft: Let’s give both the SC and AB a deadline for their input
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Diderot!
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane has gotten the owners grandfathered
Claude Desmoulins: AB?
Kendra Bancroft: Artisanl Branch –The Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm until the next RA meeting, perhaps?
Claude Desmoulins: …by NL 4-2 to agree to enter the CCD.
Pelanor Eldrich: I kinda thought NB state bank=treasury handled by the guildmaster=treasurer…but hey, that’s too simple, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, Claude, all branches have three names each 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I agree with Pel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pelanor, actually I also saw the Treasury as being the Neualtenburg Bank
Diderot Mirabeau: I am sure that’s the way it can be handled .. although Sudane might wish to delegate the responsibility since N’burg bank director can quickly become a very heavy role
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It only worked as a ‘Treasury’ until now, because it didn’t have additional ‘powers’.
Claude Desmoulins: NL 4-15 says….
Kendra Bancroft: It’s Sudane’s decision –but doubtless she would wish to delegate it
Kendra Bancroft: much as she has delegated the new platz to me
Claude Desmoulins: the NB is overseen by the treasurer….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Claude Desmoulins: …..pays the cities bills…..
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild now has a Chamber of Commerce you know –of which I’m the head
Claude Desmoulins: ….and holds escrow deposits for NRC’s
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww congrats, Kendra 🙂
Seldon Metropolitan: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I suppose this would allow the treasurer to design the NB governance structures.
Kendra Bancroft: TY Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, the role of the Treasurer is now defined as a fancy title for the Head of the neualtenburg Bank. Simple 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Right –and if Sudane wants to appoint a Bank officer it’s her decision
Kendra Bancroft: not ours
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well ‘overseen’ really
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, that’s her choice
Claude Desmoulins: Let Sudane come up with an org chart and bring it to us if she wants/needs RA approval.
Kendra Bancroft: exactly, Claude
Kendra Bancroft: it does need our stamp
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Pelanor Eldrich: great…delegating it makes sense.
Claude Desmoulins: 4-21
Kendra Bancroft: It’s called getting the people involved in Government, Pel 😉
Claude Desmoulins: ungrandfathers Sudane, Dianne, Amulius
Claude Desmoulins: and puts them into the CCD.
Pelanor Eldrich: what’s CCD?
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane got their assent to this.
Diderot Mirabeau: Dianne’s lot .. surely that’s not “Black” is it?
Claude Desmoulins: Central Commercial District.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes,
Kendra Bancroft: Yes, that’s “Black”
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Seldon Metropolitan: this seems pretty straight forward
Diderot Mirabeau: okay .. it’s almost as close to the marktplatz as is my house in 2205 Talenstrasse .. only at the other end
Claude Desmoulins: We would be amending NL 4-2 to reflect this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Marktplatz does an “L”…
Kendra Bancroft: and I’m miving my steinzeug to my property next to the Rathaus
Diderot Mirabeau: aaah
Diderot Mirabeau: miving = giving or moving? 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Any questions on the text?
Kendra Bancroft: the north and south platz are what we’ll be devolping
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Clear as the fountain’s water 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote.
Diderot Mirabeau: an example in brevity
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Seldon Metropolitan: voting = good 😀
Kendra Bancroft: okay, folks –It’s Matt Dillo9n time for me
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Seldon Metropolitan: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: mark me down as aye on 4/21
Claude Desmoulins: Last thing we have to do is RA archivist.
Kendra Bancroft: later folks!
Kendra Bancroft: have a good one!
Diderot Mirabeau: bye Kendra enjoy
Kendra Bancroft:
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi?
Pelanor Eldrich: cya
Claude Desmoulins: opposed?
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude, aren’t there any left-over Constitutional amendments from previous meetings?
Aliasi Stonebender: sorry, drifting off a bit
Claude Desmoulins: The four that were on the agenda all passed.
Aliasi Stonebender: we cleared those in 7-day, I think, Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Claude Desmoulins: ADR, Citizenship
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fine.
Diderot Mirabeau cheers wildly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, there are only 4. Sorry.
Claude Desmoulins: The one that changes the SC veto hasn’t been officially submitted yet.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought that there were two different sets, but I know see they’re the same 4.
Claude Desmoulins: RA archivist.
Claude Desmoulins: I posted a job description to the forums.
Claude Desmoulins: Thoughts?
Aliasi Stonebender: seems straightforward enough.
Seldon Metropolitan: seems good.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One question ? will that be a ‘civil service’ job, ie. paid for by the City?
Seldon Metropolitan: I thought it would, be I thought it was specifically addressed as so under the act that created those.
Pelanor Eldrich: I like it, but like the state bank, you should be able to hire whoever/whatever you want for the civil service as long as the admin salary item is in the passed budget.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Pelanor.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes. The budget funds four positions.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the second question is: what happens if the RA Archivist misses a RA meeting? 😉
Seldon Metropolitan: death
Claude Desmoulins: As the RA we can create the description for this one since it’s the RA archivist.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Seldon Metropolitan: pistols at dawn
Claude Desmoulins: That’s why the recorder.
Pelanor Eldrich: I mean, get a masseuse if you want…whatever…politically not wise, but nothing stopping you.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Claude Desmoulins: As long as they have the transcripts and the bills/agenda
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only 4 functions are on the budget, pelanor ? here, let me give you a copy.
Claude Desmoulins: They can do it w/o presence at the meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, that’s clear then, Claude!
Claude Desmoulins: Bills and agenda should be posted to forums ahead.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How will the job be ‘selected’? Ie. candidates should apply to the LRA, and there will be a selection process?
Claude Desmoulins: Any problem with the description?
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s do that first.
Diderot Mirabeau: does it set a maxium number of hours to be worked per week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No.
Claude Desmoulins: No. It’s salaried/
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: L$1000/month for the job.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of approving the description?
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Seldon Metropolitan: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn *pokes* Aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Aliasi 😀
Claude Desmoulins: Now two things.
Diderot Mirabeau: I was just going to ask if anyone had a sound we could play to wake up Aliasi 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Diderot: Library | Sounds | Bugle “charge” 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: 1) I’ve been doing this job uncompensated for six weeks. I have no problem continuing to do it compensated 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Claude!
Claude Desmoulins: If we need a highly transparent process, we’ll at least need an interim,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fair enough, hehe
Pelanor Eldrich: Thanks for the doc….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I asked if you were going to take people’s resumes, and then have an evaluation process.
Seldon Metropolitan: Im fine with claude as interim until a suitable candidate can be determined.
Claude Desmoulins: Besides, there’s a long tradition of legislatures not making themselves accountable to laws they pass 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: it would be nice if we could find some newbie to take the job .. we need more microjobs for newbies
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Awww that would be lovely, Diderot!
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want to post an ad somewhere?
Pelanor Eldrich: Yeah, and banking jobs… 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and L$1000 is not a ‘microjob’ lol
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s an issue.
Seldon Metropolitan: it would be a good way to get someone more involved in the process.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You could, Claude ? at the Employment/Opportunities forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I think that if this person is a civil servant… they have to be citizens. 😉
Claude Desmoulins: I’m happy to keep doing it if there’s not an objection. Sudane is GM and Treasurer.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, the microplot’s cost could be deducted from the salary 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: yes … I agree .. but the 40L$ for a microplot could be deducted from the pay
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe .. mindshare
Seldon Metropolitan: alts!
Seldon Metropolitan: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly, Diderot, hehe 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn and Aliasi are the two candidates for interim webmaster and they’re each in government.
Pelanor Eldrich: Preference to citizens helps motivate citizenship
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awwww we need now a highly formalized admittance procedure 😀
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m no webmaster.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm the webmaster will be a function of the Chamber of Commerce
Claude Desmoulins: The other issue is that I have tended to do a lot of clean up im creating the legislation archive.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I’m no webmaster either
Seldon Metropolitan: Im gonna need to go pretty soon. I have a drunk person throwing up and Im the only responsible person sober enough to deal with it at the moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Claude ? the ‘separate contract’ you mentioned
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, and as I stated at the outset, the wiki is purely a private entity.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh, Seldon 😀
Claude Desmoulins: The separate contract refers to going through the forums….
Claude Desmoulins: …and finding all the old laws.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, anyway, Claude, on the issue of the Webmaster, we have currently 4 people doing overall what the future website is going to be… Aliasi, myself, Flyingroc, and Sky 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: going through the forums – that’s a job for Gwyneth .. she’s got to do it anyway to populate her spanking new del.icio.us account
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I agree that it should be a separate contract
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack no time for that, Diderot >:)
Claude Desmoulins: Sky has been/will be paid for her contribution on a one time $L10K payment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah ? I didn’t know that, ok ? on the ‘backlog’ n laws, I’d say, let’s take the money from the ‘Rainy Day’ savings as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: define an amount for the past work
Claude Desmoulins: Ifthere are no objections. I’ll be interim.
Seldon Metropolitan: Ive already stated my lack of objections.
Claude Desmoulins: Someone else will need to draft a hiring procedure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and allow the RA Archivist to either accept the contract as well, or we’ll get a new job description for that separately
Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW ? who hires the civil servants? 😀
Seldon Metropolitan: Id be happy to take a try at drafting the hiring procedure
Diderot Mirabeau: do the 10K include support? I notice the land overview currently contains a Bernard Maginot and a Land Title error?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that’s an interesting question…
Claude Desmoulins: Is an RA member allowed to seek the archivist job?
Diderot Mirabeau: sure why not
Seldon Metropolitan: I dont see any conflict there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Claude ? technically, yes, since for the past 15 months or so, it was always a RA member doing that
Diderot Mirabeau: as long as it’s not the same person hiring them
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I had intended to remail a candidate.
Claude Desmoulins: *remain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: for the permanent position.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, who does the hiring? 😉
Claude Desmoulins: So I’ll step back.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is loving the idea of creating the Bureaucracy of Neualtenburg 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The RA less anyone who’s a candidate for the job:)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I saw too many episodes of “Yes, Minister” on BBC….
Claude Desmoulins: He/ She is our achivist.
Seldon Metropolitan: ugh like I said, I have some ideas as far as the hiring goes, and Id love to throw together the framework, but I really need to go here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… let me suggest something.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since the only branch of Government that is not directly involved on the lawmaking process is the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the RA passes laws, the SC enforces them)
Pelanor Eldrich: See, this goes back to my idea of get the overall amount for civil service passed in the budget and then LRA can do whatever. If you want to do it all yourself and keep the money fine. The citizens will vote you out if NB isn’t running well.
Pelanor Eldrich: Just a thought.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It makes sense that the Guild oversees the Civil Service.
Diderot Mirabeau: even the SC archivist?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If it’s part of the civil service, yes.
Claude Desmoulins: Two things that don’t need action….
Claude Desmoulins: ..in a sec.
Pelanor Eldrich: RA runs the civil service, SC runs the judiciary, Guild runs the fianances/economics.
Diderot Mirabeau: poor Sudane’s going to be overworked with all the responsibilities we throw at her
Pelanor Eldrich: Same with employees.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I prefer that RA hires RA archivist however it wants…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, the RA is not the ‘executive’, Pelanor.
Pelanor Eldrich: Sudane needs to delegate to some guild scutmonkeys
Claude Desmoulins: ….SC hires SC archivist however it wants,….
Claude Desmoulins: ….C of C hires webmaster how it wants….
Diderot Mirabeau envisions the rise of a professional services industry in Neualtenburg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww three separate civil services?! Oh my 😀
Claude Desmoulins: Treasurer is thornier.
Pelanor Eldrich: Civil service functionaries are usually hired and administered by the Gov’t in power.
Claude Desmoulins: No
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the RA is not the Government, Pelanor 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the tricky bit in N’burg… we have no ‘executive’ branch 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn considers the Monarchy again
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m Canadian…BTW
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Great 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: Gwyneth don’t you think that putting all the archivists under the auspices of the guild will create unnecessary complexity of interfaces / interaction between branches of government
Pelanor Eldrich: Constitutional Monarchy
Claude Desmoulins: Whatever entity supervises the civil servant hires him or her within broad guidelines set up by all three branches.
Seldon Metropolitan: I think thats probbably the better way to go claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Diderot, sure. I’m just half-joking. At this point in time, it’s perfectly possible to have each branch hire its own people.
Pelanor Eldrich: Right, RA monkeys hired by RA, SC monkeys hired by SC etc.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, in the future, we might need to have the equivalent of a Civil Service
Seldon Metropolitan: but.. I need to go. Im more than happy to look at the hiring process, and Ill check back on the notes in a couple minutes
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t want a complex EEO code because who wants to muck with enforcing it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t think we have more action items tonight.
Diderot Mirabeau: why not let Seldon draft some guidelines for the process for all three branches
Pelanor Eldrich: If you hire yourself and you suck ass, it’ll be remembered at election time.
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d better check out myself, we’ve done the stuff that needs us all to be here.
Claude Desmoulins: That’s fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Seldon Metropolitan: Im down with that
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, I know it’s early.
Claude Desmoulins: Did you see what I posted about the SC agenda?
Seldon Metropolitan: it would give me a good excuse to get used to the nburg legal language and Ive been looking for a small manageable project
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So each branch hires its own staff, oversees/supervises them, and the Guild pays them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not yet, Claude
Seldon Metropolitan: Ill check back in a bit, night all
…
The meeting closed at 20:55 Linden time.RA Meeting: March 22, 2006
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Claude Desmoulins: Recorder’s on.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch
Navy:Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.Kendra Bancroft: good thing I didn’t eat beans then Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Start please with 4-22
Claude Desmoulins: As we have an hour tops.
Aliasi Stonebender has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi expressed willingness to do some of this volunteer.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: If we want to pay someone…
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, and now that she’s here – Kendra, I was wanting to make sure using some of your structures in the build would be cool.
Claude Desmoulins: ..let’s do a second bill.
Sudane Erato: perhaps a nominal fee would allow us to remain consistent withour principles… to pay everyone
Kendra Bancroft: anything I build for Neuatenburg is for Neualtenburg in toto
Aliasi Stonebender: Good, good. I might want to get a moddable stein or beer glass to give to the hippo.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: L$ 5 ? 🙂
Sudane Erato: hello!
Diderot Mirabeau: I gave Aliasi 10 L$ already 😉
Sudane Erato: well, perhpas $1000
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, it will go towards my next upload. 😉
Claude Desmoulins: When you say a modest fee,what are you thinking?
Kendra Bancroft: mod/copy? Aliasi?
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane, can the budget swallow this?
Claude Desmoulins: $1k
Aliasi Stonebender: That would work, I don't think I'll have to hand over ownership to anyone.
Claude Desmoulins: lindens
Sudane Erato: well. as I said before… we don’t know..
Kendra Bancroft: Do you know which stein you want? I have like 12 different ones
Sudane Erato: but we can gamble and see
Aliasi Stonebender: basically, I want to make a hippo with stein and chicken hat, or some kind of bavarian hat.
Aliasi Stonebender: I didn’t have one in mind.
Aliasi Stonebender: Whatever you think would go good with a telehub hippo.
Claude Desmoulins: Clarify we don’t know, please.
Aliasi Stonebender: that would work.
Aliasi Stonebender: Rock on. Thanks!
Kendra Bancroft: There’s a bavarian hat
Sudane Erato: We can certainly commit to L1000… and hope that the budget was cobservative
Sudane Erato: conservative
Sudane Erato: which, I think it is
Claude Desmoulins: Is there an amendment to that effect?
Sudane Erato: you must treat budgets with some flexibility
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ll vote yes on the amendment, for form’s sake.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll propose it, so you aren’t proposing to pay yourself 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra?
Kendra Bancroft: yes?
Aliasi Stonebender: Yeah, but with Kendra’s items, I could split it with her, we’d be in all kinds of conflict of interest then. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Vote, please 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: How are you on the amendment? Kendra Bancroft: Oh I thought I had –aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe perhaps it was ‘swallowed’ on the chat lag.
Claude Desmoulins: If you wantto give money to Kendra, it’s your choice.
Kendra Bancroft: Money is good for me
Claude Desmoulins: Amended to pay Aliasi $L1k to coordinate the build.
Sudane Erato: great
Claude Desmoulins: Can we vote on 4-22?
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m good with it.
Aliasi Stonebender: Obviously.
Sudane Erato: smile
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Aliasi Stonebender: Aye
Kendra Bancroft: Let’s call it even, Aliasi –I never paid you for helping me with the Merry-go-round
Gwyneth Llewelyn: smile
Aliasi Stonebender: If it pleases you.
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra- on the bill?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *drums her fingers*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: smile
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Next…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Just re-reading it
Kendra Bancroft: but “aye”
Claude Desmoulins: RA procedures.
Aliasi Stonebender: okay, I’ll IM torley about it Pelanor Eldrich: uh, the avatars are transparent, all I see are hats and glasses etc.
Claude Desmoulins: The proposed change adds an official definition of quorum.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same here, Pelanor 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, as said, this is one of the ‘legacies from the past’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: never codified
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we should definitely have it written down somewhere
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m fine with making it formal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d certainly encourage the RA to do that, hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Hence the proposal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /nod
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is gestureless.
Claude Desmoulins: Can we vote now?
Diderot Mirabeau: better than heartless
Aliasi Stonebender: let’s.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Aliasi Stonebender: Aye
Kendra Bancroft: AYE
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay.
Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks there wasn’t ever a vote that did NOT pass 😉
Claude Desmoulins: I doubt FR will make it. Let’s move all the PCA’s – Proposed Constitutional Amendments- to 7 day. Any objection?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… perhaps there was… I si
mply can’t remember it 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The first University proposal.
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, I might have a quibble with some of the amendments, but I’ll tackle that in the email.
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection to goingto seven day?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, yes, good point, Claude.
Kendra Bancroft: Hey, Aliasi –FETCH!
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m not a dog, I’m a coyote.
Sudane Erato: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: I exist to lure you into an overly complicated trap. Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: meep meep
Aliasi Stonebender: and no objections to going 7-day here.
Claude Desmoulins: OK now Diderot and SC.
Claude Desmoulins: Any questions to the nominee?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau sweats profusely
Sudane Erato: i think he’s emminently qualified! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should perhaps just add that Diderot was on a shortlist with ‘possible candidates’
Kendra Bancroft: what’s a scottsman wear under his kilt?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the idea was to give them a way to participate *even more* in N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is what happened with Diderot, certainly 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: I can show you later 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Kendra, a *true* scot… well 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: nahhhh –I’ll just highlight transparent 😉
Sudane Erato: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve no questions, m’self.
Kendra Bancroft: I have one question
Diderot Mirabeau: yes?
Claude Desmoulins: Please let’s make the transcript family friendly, folks 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Diderot, Th Constitution of Neualtenburg exists to (fill in the blank)
Diderot Mirabeau: define the obligations of the community to its citizens and vice versa and set out a framework of institutions to serve that purpose in my view
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: good answer
Kendra Bancroft: he’s fine by me
Claude Desmoulins: Other questions or shall we vote?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew I’m glad I did not go through Kendra’s questioning in my time… 😉
Sudane Erato: haha
Kendra Bancroft: I wasn’t on the RA
Kendra Bancroft: hahaha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes! That’s an excellent point!
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll take that as a no to other questions.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it seems that the Guild has to approve the SC members as well…
Diderot Mirabeau: or at least Die Gildemeister does, right?
Sudane Erato: the Guild has no mechanism for doing so…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops
Kendra Bancroft: y only reservation is having his name rhyme
Sudane Erato: well., the Guild master Certianly does
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, get one mechanism for doing the approvals, Sudane!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Kendra!
Sudane Erato: *sigh*… yes 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: you want it to rhyme with anything in particular?
Diderot Mirabeau: with itself maybe?
Kendra Bancroft: mojo
Diderot Mirabeau: Diderot Motorboat? Pelanor Eldrich: it does rhyme with itself.
Pelanor Eldrich: silent t in french
Aliasi Stonebender: anyway, as to the vote?
Pelanor Eldrich: diderow mirabow
Claude Desmoulins: Peut-on voter?
Pelanor Eldrich: Je ne peux pas.
Claude Desmoulins: C’etait en general.
Kendra Bancroft: yeah yeah yeah Frer’Jaques
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s vote.
Sudane Erato: lol
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the nomination.
Aliasi Stonebender: Aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Kendra Bancroft: AYE
Kendra Bancroft: I mean Oui!
Claude Desmoulins: Diderot, you can now get some sleep 🙂
Sudane Erato: bravo!!
Claude Desmoulins: Discussions.
Kendra Bancroft: my butt is sticking to this seat
Diderot Mirabeau breathes a sigh of relief
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Election system. Sudane’s putting together a working group to make sure the system gets built.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, back ? and CONGRATULATIONS, Diderot!
Claude Desmoulins: Yes. Congrats.
Diderot Mirabeau: 🙂 thank you everyonye I hope to do my best in this capacity
Kendra Bancroft: All hail the great Shamalamadingdong!
Claude Desmoulins: Right now it’s potentially Me, Aliasi, Gwyn, Satch and FR.
Claude Desmoulins: Anyone else we should ask?
Kendra Bancroft: All hail the great Shamalamadingdong!
Pelanor Eldrich: LOL
Claude Desmoulins: Sorry to push but we have 25 minutes.
Sudane Erato: Satch is quite enthusiastic
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi,
Sudane Erato: and has even offered to coordinate
Claude Desmoulins: Did you ever figure out the MySQL server on your web host?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’d immediately vote for Satchmo, lol
Sudane Erato: but… he’s quite busy
Aliasi Stonebender: No, I haven’t had the time.
Sudane Erato: like everyone
Kendra Bancroft: Anything Sarch wants to do has my supoort
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Sudane 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: I can do the backend. I’m just clueless on XML-RPC.
Sudane Erato: I think Ulrika used email?
Kendra Bancroft: Just let Satch off the leash
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I’ll give you some hints on that Claude, it’s way easy.
Kendra Bancroft: I trust him inplicitly
Claude Desmoulins: Just drop an email if you would.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll contact Satch and see what his thought are.
Sudane Erato: great
Sudane Erato: and I’ll ask some others here…
Sudane Erato: suspicions we may have a few other coders
Claude Desmoulins: How can we publicize the sim design contest?
Kendra Bancroft: Don’t look at me –I’m horrible at it
Kendra Bancroft: Forums and an event
Sudane Erato: Keltrien has a model built Claude Desmoulins: Kelt is the only one I’m aware of who’s doing a proposal.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m not doing one –there’s enough of me in this City
Kendra Bancroft: time for another vision
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I’d put something together but for the conflict of interest.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a Secret Proposal?.
Sudane Erato: oh yes?
Aliasi Stonebender: and I don’t have strong enough feelings on the matter to make a proposal. I want us to expand, I don’t much care how.
Claude Desmoulins: Good to know. Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s secret, Sudane, so I can’t tell you what it is!
Diderot Mirabeau: ah the SIC undoutedly Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shh Diderot, or I’ll reveal more 😉
Kendra Bancroft: I think it’s best if I stay out of the running
Diderot Mirabeau holds his ears in anticipation of what is to come
Claude Desmoulins: Is the whole RA excluded on principle, or just the members of the screening committee?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the RA could decide that 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Also. I’ll do a forum post. Who wants to host an event.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m just staying out for the sake of other people getting a chance
Sudane Erato: i see no reason to exclude anyone, at this point
Kendra Bancroft: Though I’d love to be a judge
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d love to have you as judge, Kendra!
Sudane Erato: me too!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As for the ‘event’, Claude, you know I’m always happy to do some 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra, I’ll have one tomorrow at Altenburg again 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: The Act doesn’t specifically exclude anyone. Absent specific language, I would assume any citizen could submit.
Kendra Bancroft: great 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It must be open to all
Claude Desmoulins: What time in case one wants to show.
Claude Desmoulins: MAybe some will become citizens to do a proposal.
Kendra Bancroft: I think that should be an option
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to an ‘announcement event’… hmm… what do you think of tying it up with the MoCA somehow… architecture is also art…
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and have it promoted through the FFRC (these guys do not sleep)
Kendra Bancroft: excellent idea!
Kendra Bancroft: We could even have a show of submissions there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Claude Desmoulins: The law says one must be a citizen to submit.
Diderot Mirabeau: what was the deadline for submissions?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: May 1st, Diderot.
Diderot Mirabeau: okay it should be possible to fit into the exhibition plan then
Claude Desmoulins: There is also a mandated 15 day public comment period before Sudane names the screening committee.
Claude Desmoulins: So we need MoCA May 2-16.
Diderot Mirabeau duly takes note
Claude Desmoulins: Marketing….
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: We have a chicken and egg problem
Claude Desmoulins: (how apropos)
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: and we also have a budget
Claude Desmoulins: How do we get enough people to do marketing without doing marketing?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, ROFL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Delegate 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: appoint roles
Sudane Erato: hehe… yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And establish what ‘enough people’ really means.
Claude Desmoulins: Of course poor Sudane is in charge of this delegation (with Kendra’s help I imagine)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, the Head of the CoC 🙂
Sudane Erato: well… yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (CoC is such an appropriate abbreviation, hehe)
Sudane Erato: but as with the election development..
Kendra Bancroft: That’s me
Sudane Erato: best to pull together a working group
Claude Desmoulins: We barely can get quorums together for anything. The same seven or eight people seem to do it all.
Claude Desmoulins: If we aren’t careful, people will burn out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, Claude 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. That’s also true.
Diderot Mirabeau: I agree
Sudane Erato: yes… they will…
Diderot Mirabeau: also we risk creating conflicts of interest
Claude Desmoulins: True.
Sudane Erato: and then others come..
Sudane Erato: perhaps we need more communication amongst ourselves…
Sudane Erato: there are almost 30
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s let Kendra and Sudane get a working group together.
Diderot Mirabeau: a dedicated group for citizens?
Kendra Bancroft: we should be delegating more outside of the governmental branches
Sudane Erato: yes…
Kendra Bancroft: Perhaps Guild member involvement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t dislike the concept
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just fear excess of spam.
Claude Desmoulins: Group IM’s only hit if you’re in world.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: spam in the sense of too many “side communications”
Sudane Erato: yes
Diderot Mirabeau: we’ll just regulate it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, we could
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll lose the transparency that forums provide!
Diderot Mirabeau: my forum posts would never be suitable for IM
Sudane Erato: lol
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s poll on the forums/in email with how and how frequently citizens are willingto be contacted.
Diderot Mirabeau: it would be more of an invitation medium
Aliasi Stonebender: I think forums and an occasional email work best.
Kendra Bancroft: My forum posts are suitable for communist pamphletering
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Kendra ? that’s not even true 🙂
Sudane Erato: or for Saturday Night Live 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: this meeting I HAVE to see
Claude Desmoulins: Who should send out the email asking for communication preferences?
Diderot Mirabeau: are all the emails available?
Diderot Mirabeau: the addresses I mean
Sudane Erato: just about, yes
Claude Desmoulins: I think so.
Diderot Mirabeau: ok
Sudane Erato: I think I have 2 missing
Diderot Mirabeau doesn’t remember submitting his email address oficially
Kendra Bancroft: I prolly shouldn’t say this –but uhm –Ulrika told me to say hello
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I saw her forum post a few weeks ago. Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: and EVERYONE must see V for Vendetta
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll be passing out masks this weekend
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m going to see it tomorrow.
Aliasi Stonebender: With my mom, no less.
Claude Desmoulins: Anyeay, who should send the email?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hah. Complex decision 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, whomever has the addresses and wants to, I’d guess.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s something completely without precedent, lol
Sudane Erato: ahhhh
Sudane Erato: I guess thats me…
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane. I’ll draft something and send it around to RA SC and you…
Diderot Mirabeau: I already IM’ed every citizen when the MoCA society held its founding meeting
Claude Desmoulins: If you’ll send it out.
Sudane Erato: I can certainly send them out, if someone can write it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need a new civil servant: SpamMaster!
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll do a draft.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Sudane Erato: good
Claude Desmoulins: Two quick things.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Banking?
Claude Desmoulins: SC supports Diderot’s banking roadmap.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Kendra Bancroft: The Hamlet of Altenburg strongly supprts Didot’s proposal
Claude Desmoulins: Next step on that is to get the NB up and running with someone actually running the thing.
Kendra Bancroft: as does the CoC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Kendra 😉
Claude Desmoulins: It is once again the treasurer’s appointment to make.
Claude Desmoulins: :0
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Diderot Mirabeau: seems there is quite a workload on Die Gilde at the moment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As if the Guild didn’t have enoug to do already *winks*
Sudane Erato: the treasurer appoints the NB officer?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Claude Desmoulins: I believe.
Sudane Erato: ahhh….
Sudane Erato: I need help with this then…
Sudane Erato: we need nominations, or suggestions
Claude Desmoulins: Does Cyberneticia know any banking/finance types 🙂
Sudane Erato: I think not…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nominations is a good idea, hmm
Diderot Mirabeau: Paolo Portocarreo? 😉
Claude Desmoulins: It will probably require an alt, as well.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s all forward suggestions to Sudane.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Kendra Bancroft: Paolo’s cool –and since I’ve already invited Barnes to perform at my new Drag Cabaret…
Sudane Erato: ok…
Claude Desmoulins: Last item.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A *drag* cabaret?!
Sudane Erato: and I’ll re-read the doc
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll be having Drag shows every Saturday night
Kendra Bancroft: muawahahahahahaha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, LOL
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: The Notary Act specifies that the city will pay for notarizing the deeds of current citizens…
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: ….Whet’s the cutoff date, and how do we get that done?
Claude Desmoulins: *What
Sudane Erato: I’m doing it…
Kendra Bancroft: Now that my dental work is getting less invasive, I’m feeling more myself
Pelanor Eldrich: When’s the platz auction?
Sudane Erato: we have had to re-formulate the deeds somewhat
Kendra Bancroft: Shall I build first? Or wait till after the auctions?
Sudane Erato: and now I’m just rying to get a system in place for contacting everyone…
Kendra Bancroft: I wanna re-do what I’ve done anyways
Claude Desmoulins: Do you have a target date for the notarizations to be completed?
Sudane Erato: no 🙁
Claude Desmoulins: What’s the date after which citizens must pay for their own deed notarization?
Sudane Erato: but its along side the Platz parcels on my agenda
Sudane Erato: once we have all existing people done..
Sudane Erato: everyone new must pay
Sudane Erato: we really do need some attention, tho… Claude Desmoulins: But for example, is the city paying for Lucia?
Sudane Erato: to the modular legal doc’s issue Claude Desmoulins: Three minutes.
Sudane Erato: the city will pay for everyone who is deeded before the notary system is functional
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Sudane Erato: the capacity of the machine is one email
Sudane Erato: 4096 characters Sudane Erato: thats a very short legal doc
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll let you take care of figuring out who must pay.
Sudane Erato: yes… np with that Claude Desmoulins: Anything else?
Sudane Erato: its the docs that are a problem
Pelanor Eldrich: SC?
Kendra Bancroft: Couldn’t the e-mail doc have hyper links to more documentation on the web page?
Sudane Erato: yes… thats what we’ll do
Diderot Mirabeau: I’ve been in touch with Sudane to try and work out the issues on that .. regrettably it’s been on my backlog for a while …
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Good idea.
Sudane Erato: hehe… yes, me too
Diderot Mirabeau: looking at it though I must say it doesn’t need to be a problem since we can isolate many of the clauses in an external document that will be updated as need be
Claude Desmoulins: Any objections to adjournment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Kendra Bancroft: exactly
Sudane Erato: i think there are conceptiual issues with that
Diderot Mirabeau: and whether people read it or not will be their problem since we will enable the necessary legislation to put the onus on them to read it
Kendra Bancroft: MY only objection is nobody told me how rad my bathing suit is
Sudane Erato: the deed is approved as it exists at that moment
Kendra Bancroft: but I’ll let it slide
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks for tolerating the frenetic pace. Look at those constitutional things, please, and ….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it’s still unrezzed to me, Kendra 😉 )
Claude Desmoulins: …we are adjouned.
Claude Desmoulins: Scandalous 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: yay
Diderot Mirabeau: sorry Kendra I’m sitting with my Ctrl+H up and didn’t see it until now .. it’s utterly spiffy
Pelanor Eldrich: I can see right through it, Coc tease!
The meeting closed at 17:45 Linden time.RA Meeting: March 29, 2006
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair. Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch the recorder.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: First, city building redundancy.
Sudane Erato: doing so records your assent to be recorded
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (we’d really need to ask Eloise to give us some feedback if we have touched the recorder or not)
Aliasi Stonebender has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: yes… perhaps
Sudane Erato: i’ll mention it to her
Claude Desmoulins: This is to provide fallback if a city official goes nuts and deletes the Rathaus or Kirche for example.
Sudane Erato: you are recorded regardless…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Sudane Erato: Claude, yes
Sudane Erato: this is a great idea
Sudane Erato: someplace copies should be stored
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Inventory works fine 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau: it’s Pelanor’s actually if I remember correctly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh!
Sudane Erato: oh!
Sudane Erato: great!
Diderot Mirabeau: or at least he pointed out how vulnerable we were to such things happening in a forum contribution
Claude Desmoulins: Do we need a list- Rathaus, Kirche, Schloss, Biergarten. What else?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fachwerks?
Sudane Erato: MoCA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Schloss Neualtenburg? Sudane Erato: yes… if its finished 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: what about the Schloss
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh sorry
Aliasi Stonebender: I’d be amiable to backups of ALL major landmarks.
Diderot Mirabeau: 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: also
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude has listed that already 😉
Sudane Erato: even the city walls!
Diderot Mirabeau: I know 😛
Claude Desmoulins: Unless someone does a new Fachwerk, we’ll not get a full perm one 🙂
Sudane Erato: they must be recorded
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Good point, Claude.
Aliasi Stonebender: A friend of mine has a rez-foo-style gadget we can use to archive the larger builds, too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I think that Dianne was working on some under the Marktplatz…?
Claude Desmoulins: Who actually owns the Schloss building?
Sudane Erato: well.. eventually all of Ulrika’s no-mod ones will be replaced
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Sudane Erato: yes, she is…
Claude Desmoulins: I’ve got one of the rare mod ones.
Sudane Erato: yes… me too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Schloss is currently owned by Kendra.
Sudane Erato: but its not copyable Claude Desmoulins: It’s still no copy, of course.
Claude Desmoulins: Can we get copies of what we can, take our chances with the no copy stuff, and rebuild if we have to when/if disaster strikes?
Aliasi Stonebender: well, technically speaking, if it’s mod, you can MAKE it copy with a little work… *shiftyeyes*… but I’d prefer that we stay away from such gross violations of copyright law. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Aliasi Claude Desmoulins: I concur
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I forgot that they were supposed to be non-copy 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we need permissions to copy the landmarks…
Sudane Erato: i think they will all have to be replaced eventually
Sudane Erato: people need to mod their homes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude… was it you or Kendra that mentioned being in touch with BladeDancer? Pendragon about the Church?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. did he give explicit permission?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know that Kendra got permission from urusula to tweak the Biergarten
Sudane Erato: i spoke to him at one point about joining NBurg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m not sure about ‘copying’ it Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Claude Desmoulins: I thought Kendra contacted him. We’ll have to ask her.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Sudane Erato: ok.. great
Sudane Erato: in the forum, he was offended about us reducing the prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The ‘Kendra buildings’ are easy, no big issues there… we just need to make sure both BladeDancer? & Urusula are comfortable with the idea.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Do we need to amend the bill woth a “when possible” phrase?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand him totally, lol ? but that’s off the record 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Flyingroc Chung: “when possible” is good
Claude Desmoulins: and possiblly a statement of intent to replace existing no copy city buildings eventually.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s fine with me, Claude, if the RA agrees on the slight amendment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, that’s a separate bill!
Claude Desmoulins: Fine with me.
Sudane Erato: yes, those are private homes…
Sudane Erato: not really city property
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since it means ‘work’ and thus needs a budget allocatyion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *allocation
Sudane Erato: also true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Voting time? 😀
Claude Desmoulins: I meant Kirche, Schloss, the “city” buildings that are no mod/copy. But I agree we can do that later.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah sorry Claude ? misunderstood you on that!
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the “when possible” amendment…..
Aliasi Stonebender: aye.
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Further discussion on the bill?
Aliasi Stonebender: not from me.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of 4-23…..
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Just a sec….
Sudane Erato: my goodness… a bill passed and we’re not even 15 mins into the mtg!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww Sudane!!!
Aliasi Stonebender: shock and awe, isn’t it
Sudane Erato: hehe
Diderot Mirabeau thinks it’s because he is so quiet
Sudane Erato: ohhh 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Still stuck on constitution. Aliasi was the only participant in the seven day discussion.
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks, Aliasi.
Flyingroc Chung: oops sorry bout that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and thanks!)
Claude Desmoulins: We have to wait for Kendra.
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, I agreed with everything except the SC voting amendment, that I just wanted to discuss.
Claude Desmoulins: The chair would entertain a motion to accept the School charter.
Claude Desmoulins: This would, BTW allow the school, formally to share prims per the prim allotment act.
Sudane Erato: graet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops I think I’m getting chat lag here… :O
Aliasi Stonebender: or we’re just quiet.
Claude Desmoulins thinks to himself that Aliasi is the only RA member here not on the School Board of Trustees 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: sheehs.
Sudane Erato: raeding 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: I make the motion to blah blah blah yackety smackety.
Aliasi Stonebender: HAPPY?
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: *crickets*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Loading…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s what I have in the Charter notecard 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: it was designed deliberately like that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Liar, Diderot 😉
Sudane Erato: :)… looks great to me
Diderot Mirabeau knows how to embed active scripts in notecards 😛 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although that’s a cool April Fool’s prank 😉
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor….
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: Aye.
Claude Desmoulins: aye.
Sudane Erato: 2!
Flyingroc Chung: yay
Sudane Erato: in 20 mins!
Claude Desmoulins: Now we can discuss stuff.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Flyingroc Chung: I have a comment about the consti amendment…
Claude Desmoulins: ….while we wait for the illustrious Ms. Bancroft.
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Flyingroc Chung: I, 2
Flyingroc Chung: imagine we have 100 citizens Flyingroc Chung: 11 or 9 memebers?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
Flyingroc Chung: of the RA?
Claude Desmoulins: 9
Claude Desmoulins: Goes to 11 at 101.
Flyingroc Chung: ok, that is not clear
Claude Desmoulins: How do we fix it?
Flyingroc Chung: cause there are two whole odd numbers closest to 10
Claude Desmoulins: Good point.
Flyingroc Chung: hm
Aliasi Stonebender: perhaps you should specifying rounding down or up?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … odd smallest whole number nearest to 10% …
Aliasi Stonebender: yay math
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rounding down
Sudane Erato: folks, I’m going to ask if you” ll excuse me…
Sudane Erato: constitutional issues are not my strong point 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: oops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you, Sudane 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: How’s CoC coming?
Sudane Erato: me?
Sudane Erato: its not yet…
Claude Desmoulins: Fair enough,
Sudane Erato: anyway…. good luck all…
Sudane Erato: I’ll read the transcript
Claude Desmoulins: FR, Can we just add rounded down to clarify I,2?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need luck??
Flyingroc Chung: The other thing is, 10% might be too large, when we get bigger. 1000 citizens mean 100 members of the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Diderot Mirabeau: the same Sudane … btw I’d like to buy that P220 or something
Sudane Erato: and I will be around if ther are any questions for me
Diderot Mirabeau: but I’ll send you an IM or an email with the details
Sudane Erato: ahhh… I’ll do a new deefd Sudane Erato: ok
Claude Desmoulins: I was inclined to think that one could cross that bridge when one gets to it.
Aliasi Stonebender: if we have 1000 citizens… yeah.
Aliasi Stonebender: right now, I’d be happy to get to the point where we could have a *100*.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d second Aliasi
Diderot Mirabeau: well it would depend really on whether we have decided on a referendum to be a mandatory part of any future constitutional amendments
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1000 citizens, hmm… 30 or so sims… hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’ll have a completely different structure by then 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I think we have, we just haven’t written it up yet.
Aliasi Stonebender: We intend to pass some kind of amendment making further amendments more difficult, soI recall.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Diderot Mirabeau: if in the future a referendum with a qualified majority of yes-voters is a necessity for altering it … then it might be very difficult to get in a situation where we have 1000 citizens with varying degrees of attachment to the political process
Aliasi Stonebender: kind of using this RA period as a “constitutional convention”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Diderot Mirabeau: and therefore we should be thinking for the future already now
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees on forward planning
Diderot Mirabeau: but I’m not clear on whether the RA has actually decided on a referendum being a requirement for the ratification of any future constituational amendments .. it seems to me the discussion ended inconclusively
Claude Desmoulins: Does someone have a specific proposal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m quite sure that N’burg’s structure for 30 sims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: will be different Claude Desmoulins: Perhaps set a maximum as well as a minimum.
Flyingroc Chung: ok, I cant think of any clear wording for the amendment… I end up with a math formula, and even that seems to need a conditional split between odd and even number of citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. very likely something where you get RA members from ‘voting circles’ (sims) sending representatives at a ‘central RA’ but having ‘local government’ as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, let’s stick to what we’ve got
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it scales well to 100 or so citizens
Diderot Mirabeau: aye Gwyneth .. a federal superstructure so to speak .. but that could be implemented on top of the existing constitution
Claude Desmoulins: FR can you show us the formula?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Diderot, and I hope that this ‘evolves naturally’ from the current constitution
Diderot Mirabeau: I tend to concur with Claude’s suggestion that we have a lower as well as an upper limit
Claude Desmoulins: Just what we need , math in the constitution 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Claude!
Aliasi Stonebender: Hey, it’s in several constitutions.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is reminded of the very complex analysis that Ulrika used to do for the voting and for the bonds…
Claude Desmoulins: What’s the maximum manageable size for an inworld meeting….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 40 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: less than the thinkers attendance
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe right
Claude Desmoulins: ….assuming that this body would actually use parliamentary procedure ?
Diderot Mirabeau: well it depends on whether the factions would appoint spokespersons on various issues
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, you can take as a rule of thumb that 40 is the ‘ideal maximum’ you can put in a sim, Claude.
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, we can dial the max avs in a sim higher, but I wouldn’t go higher than 40 unless the sim was DESIGNED for it.
Flyingroc Chung: hm… ok, 100 citizens = 49 members of RA, and 101 citizens = 51 members?
Aliasi Stonebender: i.e., few miscellaneous scripts or prims.
Claude Desmoulins: That would scale to a population of 400.
Claude Desmoulins: Right. Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Estate tools go up to 100
Aliasi Stonebender: Why would it be like that, FR? Claude Desmoulins: Before the percentage changed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn doesn’t understand FR’s maths…
Aliasi Stonebender: ten percent of 101 is 10.1, that would be 9 members.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: h
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
Claude Desmoulins: 11 actually
Aliasi Stonebender: Noi. Aliasi Stonebender: if we round DOWN.
Aliasi Stonebender: it would be 9.
Flyingroc Chung: I think that’s what calude meand… if # of citizens is even then floor(#of citizens * 0.1); if # citizens is odd then ceiling(#citizens * 0.1)
Claude Desmoulins: Oh.
Aliasi Stonebender: That’s a little complex for my taste, just rounding down to the nearest odd number works for me. it’s simple.
Claude Desmoulins: That means RA stays at 5 to 61 citizens. Is that good?
Flyingroc Chung: ok, in that case, we reach 11 members of Ra when we get to 110 citizens
Claude Desmoulins: I was meaning that an RA maximum of 40, would allow us to keep a 10/1 citizen/RA members ratio up to 400 citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn 's brain explodes.
Aliasi Stonebender: heh.
Claude Desmoulins: I like rounded down and maximum of 40.
Diderot Mirabeau: a pity .. it looked so pretty
Aliasi Stonebender: works for me.
Aliasi Stonebender: wouldn't be an RA meeting if we didn't discuss at least ONE intensely boring topic to death. 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Diderot, you're flattering. Everyone knows that avatars *don't* have brains, our skulls are completely empty except for the pretty eyes!
Flyingroc Chung: The number of seats in the RA is equal to 10% of the population rounded down to the nearest odd number, with a minimum of five and a maximum of 40 seats.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Diderot Mirabeau considers the feasibility of a prim brain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t like the ‘maximum of 40 seats’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but well
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Claude Desmoulins: Why not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s a ‘technicality’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I expect that when we grow to 400 citizens at the current rate
Diderot Mirabeau: I don’t see why not … as you said yourself .. a federation of 30 sims will need higher abstractions of governance …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: even LL will have managed to finish the new renderer 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok... Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we can adjourn that discussion to 2019 anyway... 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: but perhaps we should codify in the constitution some provision for the RA to delegate parts of its decisionmaking to a supra-governmental body such as a future federal superstructure
Claude Desmoulins: I would imagine something like this. At such point as we grow to multiple sims, we’ll move from direct RA election to each sim having a certain number of seats based on population.
Aliasi Stonebender: I think perhaps we'll be lucky to last another year. 😛
Flyingroc Chung: hm, claude that formulation will get us 7 members when we reach 70, not 61 tho
Claude Desmoulins: True.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, don't be so gloomy, Aliasi! The fun hasn't even started 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: which is fine with me
Claude Desmoulins: or do you want to say 10% rounded down to odd number and then add 2.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Claude Desmoulins: Takes us to 7 at 50.
Gwyneth Llewelyn is getting a headache
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Flyingroc Chung: I think the rounded down formulation is good enough
Diderot Mirabeau: the exact number shouldn’t be that important .. the main thing as I see it is to maintain a somewhat proportional relationship between size of population and size of RA .. up to a manageable point
Claude Desmoulins: I'm OK either way.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The number of seats at RA is a random number, influenced by the amount of fog in N’burg at the time as reported by the weather station of Cid Jacobs, and loosely connected to the number of citizens, as the RA might see fit.”
Diderot Mirabeau: throw in the rocks, scissors and stones with that and I’m good to go
Flyingroc Chung: brb, getting some dinner
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll leave it at FR’s suggestion.
Claude Desmoulins: Aliasi, do you want to discuss the SC amendment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: our fearless leader is away
Gwyneth Llewelyn: welcome back 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Well
Aliasi Stonebender: I said what I wanted to say in the email, did you all get it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not me 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but then again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m just a ghost here 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Chatting w/ Seldon out of world.
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, the gist is
Aliasi Stonebender: the intent of this amendment is to make the SC work like the guild… you have the chairs, and then you have them vote for the dean.
Aliasi Stonebender: and I was wondering if that kind of symmetry is entirely necessary.
Claude Desmoulins: Seldon is convalescing, btw.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, again? Poor Seldon!
Claude Desmoulins: Even though I wrote it, I see Aliasi’s point.
Claude Desmoulins: The SC maybe shouldn’t be a mirror of the guild in terms of governance structures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s really your call, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either possibility is perfectly reasonable.
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, my reasoning was like this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. in pure terms of constitutional reasoning…
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ll type it out here since Gwyn didn’t see the email.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Aliasi!
Aliasi Stonebender: The RA is voted on by the citizens at large, since it is supposed to be the “voice of the people”, as it were.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Aliasi Stonebender: The Guildmaster is voted on by the masters, since a master has demonstrated knowledge and ability in the matters the Guild handles.
Aliasi Stonebender: However, in the SC, members have already faced a sort of qualifying test, through nomination and confirmation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, in the sense that somehow they ‘become’ masters for pure merit (at least in the spirit of the Constitution)
Aliasi Stonebender: and thus, I don’t see a reason to further boil it down to just chairs.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Claude Desmoulins: I’d almost rather leave it as it is, so the whole SC elects the chair.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm good point 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, there’s another reason, too.
Flyingroc Chung: In practice however, we seem to be using the professor position in the same way as the guild looks at journeymen
Aliasi Stonebender: As it is, the SC is easily accused of “cronyism”
Aliasi Stonebender: since it is self-selected
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘cronyism’?!
Aliasi Stonebender: only letting on friends and the “trustworthy”, Gwyn.
Claude Desmoulins: No, FR. Professors in the SC still have to go past the Gilde and RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, ok
Aliasi Stonebender: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cronyism
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, I was googling for that as well 🙂 Learning something every day!
Flyingroc Chung: that is professors are seen as sort of junior jurists, whose judicial mettle is still being evaluated by the chairs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Claude is right, FR
Aliasi Stonebender: So, if you then have chairs only voting on the Dean, you run into a real possibility of a static oligarcy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *all* SC members are ‘evaluated’ through a vote of confidence by Guild + RA, as well as nominated and selected by the SC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hmm
Aliasi Stonebender: Granted, it's helped by the "evaluation", as well as the SC holds the smallest amount of direct power.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the same happens on the Guild, Aliasi,with a difference: on the Guild, the number of Masters are not fixed; on the SC, they are 9 maximum...
Aliasi Stonebender: But it’s as much a perception thing as real effect.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, Gwyn, but ANYONE can join the Guild.
Aliasi Stonebender: the SC has a "you must be THIS elite to join" sign on it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see your argument, Aliasi, I find it flawless, actually.
Aliasi Stonebender: Gwyn, now *I'm* shocked. 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: you must be getting tired 😉
Claude Desmoulins: I tend to be with Aliasi on this one.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very 🙂
Claude Desmoulins wonders where Kendra is?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I think I’m going to leave you earlier than usual…
Flyingroc Chung: well, if it aint broke...
Claude Desmoulins: Any other comments on the constitutional proposals, Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let me see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For me, all of these were pretty clear
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and hi, Pelanor)
Claude Desmoulins: Greetings.
Pelanor Eldrich: hi
Diderot Mirabeau: hello
Claude Desmoulins: A follow up on the election system.
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn ,did you send me that email on XML-RPC?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww I don't think I did, Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m also at fault with Sudane, she wanted to get an auctioning system
Claude Desmoulins: Satch was supposed to do a spec yesterday, but he hasn't sent it to me yet.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
Claude Desmoulins: I've now got access to some hosting space with php/mysql so I can start sandboxing this thing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I saw Satchmo yesterday, but completely forgot to talk to him about that. I guess the past two days were a bit tricky for nus, due to the Radio Open Source event…
Claude Desmoulins: I figured.
Aliasi Stonebender: Oh, that reminds me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I remember you mentioning that, Claude 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Aliasi?
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Aliasi Stonebender: dunno if you saw the forums, but Zero Linden posted a thing about SL eventualyl getting outbound http (instead of mucking with XML-RPC)…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes yes yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Aliasi Stonebender: which would be wonderful for us in all kinds of ways.
Claude Desmoulins: It will happen the same week as Havok 6. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve read that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and LOL Claude!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, HTML-in-world (probably NOT on a prim) is perhaps a month or two away.
Aliasi Stonebender: well, I’m not holding my breath, but Havok 2/3 is somethign only real gearheads will get immedate use out of… whereas outbound comms, I know of a LOT of projects awaiting such a thing
Claude Desmoulins: Did I hear that Vivox will roll out in a couple of weeks?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, and here is a bit of gossip ? we'll have flexible prims as a 'major feature' very soon (yes, I know, that only interests furries and people wearing prim hair 🙂 )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is Vivox, Claude?
Diderot Mirabeau: won’t that be terribly draining on system resources?
Claude Desmoulins: The SL voice chat thing that was demoed at the GDC.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I didn’t saw that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or rather, I didn’t read about it
Claude Desmoulins: It’s mentioned in Satch’s blog at ESC.
Aliasi Stonebender: it interests ME... flags!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: flags??
Claude Desmoulins: Flexible prims.
Aliasi Stonebender: flexible prims, why couldn't you make a flag with it?
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra was going to do faction banners.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah of course, yes 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that should work
Gwyneth Llewelyn: also, better primmed clothes
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, and I’d love ot have a flowing Nburg flag…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which also means: we won’t get new meshes for capes, etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway
Aliasi Stonebender: oooh, yes, capes… wow, this is looking to be HUD all over again. Okay, end digression.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll *try* to get something about xml-rpc to you Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: beyond what's on my blog anyway
Claude Desmoulins: I’m not even sure this web host supports it. What about yours, Aliasi?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if it supports php
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and a way to parse incoming email
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that should be enough
Claude Desmoulins: Don’t you have to install xml-rpc separately?
Aliasi Stonebender: I think mine might, but like I said, no real clue, been too busy to look into it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm current versions of PHp have xml-rpc as a ‘module’ or so
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m studiously slacking off on finishing the Anzere infohub as it is, though I got a good bit done.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I have it on a separate ‘library’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, great, Aliasi! 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s wait for Satch to finish the spec.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What this means, Claude, is that separate library is just a very simple PHP script which should work on *any* web server that supports PHP
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The tricky bit might be the email parser, depending on what your host allows.
Claude Desmoulins: Ah. so you do xml-rpc as an include or something like that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But if we get 'outbound HTTP' soon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the email bit can be ignored 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The question, of course, is ‘how soon is soon?’ 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Isn’t that always the question.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: worse case scenario, I can do the parsing for you, and call something from your web server instead
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *worst Flyingroc Chung: my webhost can do xmlrpc and email parsing
Diderot Mirabeau: folks I'll have to leave you .. I think you'll be perfetly able to carry on the technical conversation without my contributions ... enjoy yourselves & thanks for a productive meeting- I hope we'll be able to hold more CET-friednly meetings in the future
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: We'll wait another 15 for KB. Then move the constitution back to 7 day if she doesn't show.
Flyingroc Chung: cya diderot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll leave you as well. I usually am up later than this, but I can't keep myself awake for longer
Diderot Mirabeau: bye
Claude Desmoulins: Bye.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We definitely need a world agreement on the same day we change to ‘summer time’ 😀
Flyingroc Chung: bye gwyb
Flyingroc Chung: gwyn
Aliasi Stonebender: okay.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye all 🙂
Claude Desmoulins ponders the deafening silence.
Aliasi Stonebender: well, can’t do much with 3 people.
Aliasi Stonebender: this will be fun when the RA expands, eh?
Flyingroc Chung: sry, munching on a cheese sandwich
Claude Desmoulins: Not on the constitution anyway.
Claude Desmoulins: NP.
Aliasi Stonebender: might have to hold multiple meetings, for each time zone.
Pelanor Eldrich: nod
Claude Desmoulins: Or some sort of running thing asynchronously on a closed forum.
Flyingroc Chung: we need some sort of async in-world communication
Pelanor Eldrich: did you guys talk about city redundency and Coc yet?
Flyingroc Chung: Coc?
Claude Desmoulins: CoC is still waiting to happen.
Pelanor Eldrich: k
Claude Desmoulins: City redundancy pased with the addition of when possible.
Claude Desmoulins: *passed Pelanor Eldrich: Chamber of Commerce...
Pelanor Eldrich: Is the NB bank up yet? Any word on the Platz auction?
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane has redone the parcels, but no auction mechanism yet.
Pelanor Eldrich: Can the bank take a security escrow from me?
Claude Desmoulins: HAve you drawn up incorporation papers yet?
Pelanor Eldrich: Ah, not yet. I’ll get right on it, and send it to Sudane.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll also give him the full biz plan for referecne.
Claude Desmoulins: Do that first, then ask Sudane about whom you give the escrow deposit to.
Pelanor Eldrich: Thanks
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t think Kendra will make it,
Claude Desmoulins: If we could pass the I,4 amendment, we could spread out the RA meeting more.
Claude Desmoulins: If you haven’t, please look at the proposals.
Aliasi Stonebender: well, if people actually voted during the 7-day discussion LIKE THEY’RE SUPPOSED TO…
Flyingroc Chung: ack sorry
Aliasi Stonebender: I mean, Seldon has an excuse, at least... 😛
Claude Desmoulins: Is there any objection to adjournment?
Flyingroc Chung: none here
Aliasi Stonebender: none at all.
Claude Desmoulins: We are therefore adjourned.
The meeting closed at 17:20 Linden time.RA Meeting: April 05, 2006
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re live. so please touch the recorder to assent to being recorded.
Aliasi Stonebender has indicated consent to be recorded.
Diderot Mirabeau: where is it?
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Over the table.
Kendra Bancroft has indicated consent to be recorded.
Diderot Mirabeau: ah I see it .. I’ve developed a blindness to floating objects after having lived on first land for so long
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Tonight’s agenda is all constitution. First up…
Claude Desmoulins: …despite all our work on article I we didn’t address ties.
Kendra Bancroft: I favour bowties
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: As I mentioned in the forums this would have happened this election if one more person had voted and gone SDF 1 DPU 2 MPP 3
Flyingroc Chung has indicated consent to be recorded.
Kendra Bancroft: Damn that Ulrika for lleaving a month early
Claude Desmoulins: I think she left just after elections, actually.
Kendra Bancroft: yah –but then I wouldn’t have a punchline
Aliasi Stonebender: We can always ignore reality for the cause of humor!
Claude Desmoulins: Anyway, the seniority tiebreaker is just an idea.
Claude Desmoulins: But we need something.
Flyingroc Chung: do we want some automatic way yo break the tie, rather than some sort of runoff election?
Claude Desmoulins: The traditional coin flip is hard. Who would build the coin, who would script the coin, who would vette the script to ensure objectivity ?
Flyingroc Chung: a coin-flip script is easy
Diderot Mirabeau: well .. that’s what we have an SC for isn’t it? 😉
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t think we want a run-off because…
Dnate Mars has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: …the election is already drawn out as it is and a tie would realistically swing the LRA position and perhaps one seat depending on how it broke.
Claude Desmoulins: at most.
Diderot Mirabeau: as I recall it from realidn old forum posts .. the Borda count was chosen originally as a method of ranking seats since it seems to favour smaller parties
Diderot Mirabeau: *reading
Claude Desmoulins: So we want a whole other week of ballots just for that?
Kendra Bancroft: Shouldn’t this really be a matter for the SC to decide?
Aliasi Stonebender: It also favors a consensus government, as opposed to a majority government.
Claude Desmoulins: Possibly.
Diderot Mirabeau: there was a desire to facilitate a flourishing of political diversity .. favouring parties of seniority in the event of a tie seems to run against that philosophy in my view
Claude Desmoulins: If not seniority, what? I’m very open to suggestions.
Flyingroc Chung: I agree, if we base it on seniority, I’d favor the newer party over the older one, we assume the older one has more resources, better entrenched, etc.
Dnate Mars: I agree, why not just a random pick?
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we commission a “tiebreaker object”?
Aliasi Stonebender: trial by combat.
Diderot Mirabeau: either solution would be agreeable in my view … since the one cannot be said to favour one over the other and the other well .. it favours younger parties and thus seems to be inline with the original philosophy of the “founding fathers”
Claude Desmoulins: This is a non-combat sim, isn’t it?
Kendra Bancroft: I agree about younger parties getting the nod
Diderot Mirabeau: I believe we use “stones rocks and scissors” for the board of the MoCA Society
Aliasi Stonebender: so we set the unsafe tag on the Platz for a half-hour. 😛
Claude Desmoulins looks over at our resident ‘founding father’ 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: actually, that might be a good idea.
Kendra Bancroft: who’s yer Daddy
Aliasi Stonebender: Given there’s a pre-existing free rock-paper-scissors game inworld.
Dnate Mars: or maybe favor the party with the least amount of seats?
Dnate Mars: thus allowing the maximum diversity in the RA
Claude Desmoulins: Is there an amendment to the amendment to change longest to shortest? Do you mean least amount in the previous RA?
Claude Desmoulins: Dnate?
Dnate Mars: yes
Kendra Bancroft: I think Flyingroc is the shortest
Claude Desmoulins: What if that was equal?
Flyingroc Chung: wouldnt a tie be possible still given that?
Claude Desmoulins: It would be by faction.
Dnate Mars: then a random pick
Aliasi Stonebender: Hm, another option occurs to me
Claude Desmoulins: At the moment DPU is younger than MPP which is younger than SDF. Any new party in a tie with one of these would win.
Claude Desmoulins: OK?
Dnate Mars: what is that Aliasi?
Aliasi Stonebender: hm, well, probably wouldn’t work, now that I think of it. I was just thinking, since party members are ranked too, maybe somehow use those as a runoff… brain fart, don’t mind me.
Aliasi Stonebender: (Also, in other news.. ZOMG furry Kendra!)
Claude Desmoulins: A random test is the only way to eliminate all ties.
Kendra Bancroft: shhhhhh –or I’ll break out Gorean Kendra
Flyingroc Chung: 0.o
Claude Desmoulins: Not that I dislike the youungest party idea.
Dnate Mars: I would think that even going with the youngest could result in a tie
Claude Desmoulins: Right.
Claude Desmoulins: How do we do random in world?
Flyingroc Chung: random pick then
Flyingroc Chung: llFRand
Aliasi Stonebender: Hm, assuming we commission or choose a random method, that seems the best. And I mentioned Huddle’s rock-paper-scissors item.
Dnate Mars: a script
Kendra Bancroft: as long as we don’t do IIAynRand
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: well, the reason for going with that instead of Frand would be, you can’t really ensure the script is “unbiased”…
Dnate Mars: couldn’t the SC approve it
Diderot Mirabeau: let people be their own random seeds
Aliasi Stonebender: not just in terms of a fraudulent programme,r we all know LL’s random number generator is more pseudo than random.
Claude Desmoulins: You mean going with Rock/paper/scissors?
Dnate Mars: then it would be used time and time again?
Aliasi Stonebender: yes.
Diderot Mirabeau: best out of three
Dnate Mars: what if there is a 3 way tie?
Aliasi Stonebender: We shoot all involved?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Round robin?
Kendra Bancroft: I heard someone has designed a working ar, wrestle script –let’s use that
Kendra Bancroft: arm wrestle
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, round robin would suffice
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe tallest avatar wasn’t a bad idea.
Claude Desmoulins: Everyone could go 1-1 ?
Dnate Mars: I was thinking that a cube that would spit out a number between 0 and 100, both people pick a number, one closest to the random number wins
Claude Desmoulins: Last week math, this week RPS.
Claude Desmoulins: The pseudo randomness of the generator script is a problem.
Claude Desmoulins: How much does one of those rock paper scissors things cost.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Dnate Mars: llfrand is pretty random, espacially when used just once at a time
Diderot Mirabeau: yes the only truly random seed we get in game is the one that people provide themselves .. that’s why rock – paper – scissors is quite eminently suited actually
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s a freebie, I think, Claude.
Flyingroc Chung: i have confidence that llfrand is pretty random
Dnate Mars: me too, I have yet to find any proof that it is not random
Diderot Mirabeau: but what if a Linden developer suddenly becomes a Neualtenburger?
Dnate Mars: they could fix RPS too
Flyingroc Chung: then we’d not be safe even with rock paper scissors?
Diderot Mirabeau: admittedly somewhat hypothetical
Diderot Mirabeau:
as I understand the rules of the game they are that you determine for yourself what you're going to bet on .. how could your choice be mind-distorted by a Linden developer?
Claude Desmoulins: How about this amendment; “will be resolved by one or more rounds of Rock PAper Scissors best of 3 overseen by the SC dean who will be the custodian ofthe official NBurg RPS device.
Diderot Mirabeau: that sounds great to me
Flyingroc Chung: the linden could collude with one or the other party
Dnate Mars: lol
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion on the RPS amendment.
Dnate Mars: is there really any truely “safe” way?
Aliasi Stonebender: there, it’s in the box if you wish to examine it.
Kendra Bancroft: Or whoever lasts longest in a room with Prokofy Neva
Aliasi Stonebender: or you can get it off SLExchange if you don’t trust me. 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Flyingroc Chung: in case of a tie, the seat goes to prokofy!
Sudane Erato: no! 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: haha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: all in favor of the amendment to the amendment.
Kendra Bancroft: Aye
Flyingroc Chung: I think rock paper scissors work well, if only for the entertainment value
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Diderot Mirabeau: Dnate what’s that outgrowth on your head? 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: The problem with this RA is we don’t argue enough –everyone always agrees
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion on the amendment?
Aliasi Stonebender: you have to take it out of the box, Dnate. 😛
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Dnate Mars: I don’t agree
Dnate Mars: I don’t think that RPS is the best way to do it
Flyingroc Chung: what is, then?
Dnate Mars: random
Aliasi Stonebender: Yeah, Kendra, but half of what we’ve done is fiddling wording changes and tightening up.
Kendra Bancroft: How likely are we to face a tie ?
Aliasi Stonebender: Nobody want to propose a divisive issue. 😛
Claude Desmoulins: If we want to throw a tie to SC we can. I was trying to spare them having to do it quickly under political pressure.
Flyingroc Chung: RPS is random enough for me
Kendra Bancroft: we’re talking about a seat thats 4 months
Dnate Mars: but is someone knows the other player well enough
Kendra Bancroft: or is it 6?
Claude Desmoulins: 6.
Diderot Mirabeau: knows the other one well enough to what?
Diderot Mirabeau: to know that he has a predisposition towards rocks?
Flyingroc Chung: predict his moves, I suppose
Diderot Mirabeau: then we can change the game to be about melons, cloth and knifes
Claude Desmoulins: Does someone on RA want to offer an amendment to the amendment to go back to a random number generating object?
Sudane Erato: melons can’t wreck knives 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It should be Rock Paper Scissors –but we use the german words
Aliasi Stonebender: play the rock paper scissors spock lizards dynamite version, it’s really on the person who always chooses rock, isn’t it? 😛
Diderot Mirabeau: seriously … it’s “pick a random ballot between 1 – 3” .. how could one’s preference be guessed in advance?
Diderot Mirabeau: make it blunt knives then
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: I say we go for RPS
Claude Desmoulins: I kind of think RPS is in the spirit of the Huhnhut and some of the other things we do here 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: Also, in all seriousness, this isn’t without precedent.
Kendra Bancroft: HUnhut –hahaha – chicken hat?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Claude Desmoulins: What precedent?
Aliasi Stonebender: RPS is well-used as a random determinant in Asia, especially Japan.
Claude Desmoulins: And Aliasi, I’m not getting your typing anim.
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s because this sit overrides it, Claude.
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Kendra Bancroft: How about we have a “Neualtenburg Idol” contest –and I get to be Simon Cowell
Aliasi Stonebender: here, this help?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment as amended…
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Kendra Bancroft: jahvold
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Flyingroc Chung: uh… aliasi?
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK, RPS it is. Someone needs to get Gwyn an RPS device.
Claude Desmoulins: Next…
Aliasi Stonebender: sorry, it’s like people think “gee, let’s all IM Ali during a meeting”…
Claude Desmoulins: II,2
Flyingroc Chung: does changing and with and/or really make the language any clearer?
Kendra Bancroft: This is a clear “aye”
Claude Desmoulins: This is Pelanor’s suggestion to clarify that either goods or service providers can be in the Guild
Kendra Bancroft: the meaning was there to begin with
Claude Desmoulins: I think so.
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s a trivial change, but considering the fight in the US over the grammatical construction of the 2nd amendment, I value clarity.
Sudane Erato: i think it makes sense
Claude Desmoulins: Taken literally , the present language implies that Guild members must provide goods *and* services
Sudane Erato: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion?
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor…
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: aye
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Sudane Erato: with that, I’ll ask you all to excuse me 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: By the way. That’s the 10th constitutional change this term.
Sudane Erato: :(… too much to do…
Claude Desmoulins: Anything you need to tell us about?
Kendra Bancroft: Take it easy, Gildemeisterinn
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Sudane Erato: i’m trying to get us to the point of selling the Platz lots…
Sudane Erato: and implementing the notarization of deeds
Aliasi Stonebender: the 10th change, perhaps, but only a few of those have been really meaningful ones, Claude.
Sudane Erato: those are the two current things
Claude Desmoulins: Do you need the auction to be a web site thing, or in world?\
Claude Desmoulins: True.
Sudane Erato: well… the auction option would be nice…
Sudane Erato: but the best method is not yet clear
Flyingroc Chung: i’ve got an auction device, if people want to use it
Sudane Erato: I feel
Sudane Erato: is it site based?
Dnate Mars: What are platz lots?
Sudane Erato: or in-world?
Flyingroc Chung: it’s in-world
Sudane Erato: oh!… great!@
Flyingroc Chung: I can show you later, if you want
Diderot Mirabeau: the houses on the marketplace that used to stand empty, Dnate
Sudane Erato: the platz lots are the lots around the platz
Diderot Mirabeau: yes
Claude Desmoulins: The ones on the logn sides.
Sudane Erato: yes… roc..
Claude Desmoulins: *long
Sudane Erato: I’ll check with you later
Sudane Erato: an in-world system would be great!
Claude Desmoulins: The next one I do not want to vote on tonight. It is only a disucssion item.
Sudane Erato: bye all 🙂
Dnate Mars: bye
Claude Desmoulins: Bye
Diderot Mirabeau: bye Sudane … enjoy 🙂 … and thanks for the doors and all btw
Claude Desmoulins: Once we pass it, changing the constitution will be much harder.
Diderot Mirabeau: I notice the proposal is to strip the SC of its veto power over constitutional amendments … what is the reasoning behind that?
Flyingroc Chung: hm, my initial reaction is that “refernda at other times” is so difficult that it’s as good as not allowing it at all
Kendra Bancroft: I have nothing to add to it –but I’ve read it –and it has my support
Diderot Mirabeau: I have of course followed the forum discussion on the topic .. but if anyone could just recap the essential argument in favor of that
Claude Desmoulins: Otherwise we’re not really a democracy because an unelected group can block all change.
__Aliasi
Stonebender__: Basically, to prevent Nburg from becoming an oligarchy with the SC in charge.
Kendra Bancroft: in other words –something we should have had in place when Ulrika was about
Diderot Mirabeau: I can understand that concern
Claude Desmoulins: The other times provision was meant to make it possible in the event of extreme and very broadly agreed upon need.
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, essentially.
Diderot Mirabeau: but would it then not just be sufficient to introduce the referendum as a “tiebreaker” in the case where the RA and the SC go heads to heads over a constitutional amendment?
Kendra Bancroft: I need to log off right now –but this has my full support
Claude Desmoulins: that’s why the removal of the sc veto of amendments is tied to the referendum so the RA doesn’t become that same oligarchy.
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra, are you coming back?
Flyingroc Chung: well the other thing is to prevent the RA from introducing too many consti amendments
Claude Desmoulins: True, Roc.
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll be back on later tonight –I’ve not had dinner –I rushed here from work
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes. This term is an exception, because we’re trying to iron out the inconsistencies and bumps in the current constitution…
Aliasi Stonebender: but once that’s done, it should be harder, was what I remember us saying at the time.
Flyingroc Chung: is there a possibility of the RA putting too many referendum items in the ballot?
Dnate Mars: no, I don’t thinks so
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to move this to seven day. So we can let the Sc look at it before we vote.
Diderot Mirabeau: I understand the desire to keep the checks and balances in place .. however I think if there was to be a referendum that the electorate would be better served by having arguments presented both from the RA and the SC on such a weighty issue …
Flyingroc Chung: right and the arguments could still be presented, but would be p to the citizens to decide…
Claude Desmoulins: Something like in the event of an SC veto of a constitutional amendment, the amendment would go to a referendum?
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table this. Diderot, please put your proposal in writing. We’ll put it up in the forums and toss it around.
Kendra Bancroft: okay –time to fix my blood sugar
Claude Desmoulins: Last thing…
Kendra Bancroft: see you folks later –thanks for understanding my absences –I’ve had a run of bad depression stuff
Claude Desmoulins: Do we meet next wednesday or the following.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Diderot Mirabeau: no problem Kendra .. get better soon .. and see you around 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Tschau
Claude Desmoulins: email me with your preference.
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjourned.
The meeting closed at 16:58 Linden time.RA Meeting: April 19, 2006
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Claude Desmoulins: OK. Now touch the recorder.
Kendra Bancroft has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay 🙂
Logan Bauer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Flyingroc indicated he would be late.
Diderot Mirabeau has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It definitely should give the touchee some feedback…
Claude Desmoulins: There is but one agenda item this evening.
Claude Desmoulins: Pelanor, I had requested agenda items be submitted by 8 SLT yesterday evening.
Claude Desmoulins: As you *all* know, it’s been an interesting couple of weeks.
Claude Desmoulins: I fervently believe that despite the contentiousness of the discourse, we agree on most of the major points here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or at least a few of the minor ones 😉
Pelanor Eldrich: Oh, no sweat, in my postings I mentioned that it’s too late for this meeting.
Claude Desmoulins: I believe there are two issues in play here, which can be addressed independently of one another.
Claude Desmoulins: One is the question of how to place a check on a potentially tyrannical SC.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s look at that one first.
Kendra Bancroft: I suggest the chair is drawing conclusions and would ask this be re-phrased
Kendra Bancroft: Unless it is his wish to start out contentious
Diderot Mirabeau: drawing conclusions on what???
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s try this differently.
Kendra Bancroft: He’s framing the discussion to suit his own conclusion
Diderot Mirabeau: what is your suggestion for a rephrasal then?
Kendra Bancroft: How can we mainain adequate checks and balances
Claude Desmoulins: To my knowledge, no one has suggested that the constitution as it now stands fails to check the power of the Guild or RA.
Claude Desmoulins: Does someone believe that to be the case?
Kendra Bancroft: Then why frame it as if there is a problem?
Claude Desmoulins: That is to say…
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pelanor Eldrich: Semantics, just go with Kendra’s starting point.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m anti-semantic as you all know
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: everyone believes that if this body or the guild sought to abuse their power, the existing structures would clearly prevent this, correct?
Kendra Bancroft: I believe so –yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d agree
Diderot Mirabeau: yes
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t believe the same level of consensus exists regarding the SC. Am I wrong?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … since impeachment is *always* an option 😉 But that’s another story.
Kendra Bancroft: So I fail to see why we would seek to lessen the power of one of those branches
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… just because there is no consensus on it?
Kendra Bancroft: Power of impeachment is already a sufficient check
Claude Desmoulins: This may be as simple as clarifying the impeachment procedures, which I believe Gwyn tried to do.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Kendra
Claude Desmoulins: I would agree if….
Kendra Bancroft: Then is that not a matter for ALL branches to meet on?
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s what worries me at some level.
Claude Desmoulins: If the SC is acting collectively, I can imagine them closing ranks around an accused member. They are the jury in impeachments after all…..
Kendra Bancroft: That is incorrect
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn;s notion of recusing multiple members simultaneously addresses this concern
Claude Desmoulins: Please explain, Kendra.
Kendra Bancroft: In the event of an Impeachment hearing brought by both the Guild and the RA against a member of the SC –The Gildemeister sits as if he/she is a member of the SC
Claude Desmoulins: He/She has only one vote of a possible 9.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, a member appointed by the Guild (could be someone else), and that member sits as the Head of the SC
Kendra Bancroft: But it prevents this consolidation you speak of
Claude Desmoulins: Couldn’t an SC working in concert overrun this one vote?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the Head of the SC ? Dean or the Guild member sitting ? just has one vote.
Kendra Bancroft: yes, Gwyn you are right –but Im assuming here the Guild would appoint their Gildemeister
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, if the RA impeaches an SC member
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Guildmeister *has* to sit as head of the RA during the impeachment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so that’s why the Constitution says “it can be another member”
Kendra Bancroft: ahhhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I think nothing prevents the Gildemeister to sit on *both* hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Weird, though.
Kendra Bancroft: The point is that the imagined danger that Claude supposes is notn there
Claude Desmoulins: What stops it?
Kendra Bancroft: and I have to wonder why he even imagines this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if the SC works as a block
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and if you impeach just one of them
Claude Desmoulins: Exactly my concern.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the others can always out-vote the guild member.
Kendra Bancroft: But if they are acting as a block –why would just one be impeached?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Kendra, I really agree.
Claude Desmoulins: I imagine it because the test of a framework is not when things go well, but when all heck breaks loose.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’d be impeached as a block as well, hehe
Kendra Bancroft: right, Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: If we agree that they can be impeached as a block. I’m fine with the status quo.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the guild member would be the only one having a vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Kendra Bancroft: So in effect –Claude–you are seeking to lame the SC in case some imagined threat occurs
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As I read the Constitution, I don’t see anything specific that forbids “impeachment as a block”
Claude Desmoulins: It occurs to me that it may be all academic.
Kendra Bancroft: It’s all irresponsible to assume the worst –you begin to create a monster when you do
Claude Desmoulins: The SC is after all the arbiter of how these processes work.
Kendra Bancroft: an experience we’ve seen many times occur in N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technically, well, this is arguable, because the Constitution always talks about “impeachment of A member” (singular), but is not clear if an impeachment can be on SEVERAL members, all to be on trial on a single hearing.
Claude Desmoulins: I prefer to think of it as being very cautious.
Kendra Bancroft: Then lets clarify the Impeachment section –not cripple the sections that deal with how things work status quo
Claude Desmoulins: It think that one way or another it needs to be clarified, even if that is via an SC opinion.
Claude Desmoulins: Fine.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right.
Claude Desmoulins: Can the SC do this?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, since you’re asking us to clarify it 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Another item on the agenda.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean the SC’s agenda.
Claude Desmoulins: They are supposed to be the interpreters of the documents and the less political thus is the better,
Claude Desmoulins: *this.
Claude Desmoulins: Any objection to that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: None here 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: (hi Rubaiyat .. have a seat when you’re rezzed) 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (*waves* at Rubaiyat)
Sudane Erato: hello :)!
Claude Desmoulins: Item two.
Claude Desmoulins: Many seem to believe that amending the constitution is too easy. What does the RA think?
Kendra Bancroft: I think it’s incumbent on the SC to clarify this –and if they wish to be politic –present there findings to the other two branches for advice
Claude Desmoulins: Impeachment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I think that comment of Kendra’s was still on the impeachment, yes.
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Kendra Bancroft: I think it’s far too easy to amend the Constitution
Claude Desmoulins: So, what do we do about it?
Kendra Bancroft: We need to meet in person with the SC
Claude Desmoulins: Add a referendum post /contingent on SC approval?
Kendra Bancroft: There’s not in my opinion enough tri-lateral meetings
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right now, yes, since the RA acting in tandem with the SC can do as many amendments as they wish (currently, this means, 6 people ? 4 from RA, 2 from SC can do whatever they want, unbounded)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although you asked the RA’s opinion, and I’m not an RA member…
Kendra Bancroft: That’s the way I see it too, Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … your own solution: moving all amendments to be approved at the end of term
Gwyneth Llewelyn: your = Claude’s
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would mean: just one “block amendment” per term.
Claude Desmoulins: Thank you for your precise description of the issue.
Claude Desmoulins: This is one where I’m not sure I agree with you.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alternative #2 (Pelanor’s suggestion?): post-approval referendum
Claude Desmoulins: As long as there’s a single act of voting, why not have multiple measures on a referendum ballot?
Claude Desmoulins: Or was it Patroklus’s?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry. probably 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: #2 has the advantage of only bothering the people with a rederendum when SC signs off.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Pelanor Eldrich: Too many referenda are bad (RL experience)
Pelanor Eldrich: *is
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees hehe (personal opinion here, not official one!!!)
Kendra Bancroft: How about giving the SC a line item veto?
Claude Desmoulins: By which do you mean…. 1) going to the polls every other week
Claude Desmoulins: or 2) having 25 items on a ballot.
Claude Desmoulins: Pelanor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *pokes* Pelanor 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Let me think.
Claude Desmoulins: For example, let’s apply the proposed system to our recent work as a hypothetical.
Pelanor Eldrich: If it’s at end of term, is it a block up or down on 25 items?
Claude Desmoulins: Since the SC has agreed to the amendments so far….
Claude Desmoulins: That’s the question. I prefer not.
Claude Desmoulins: …at RA election time there would be 10 up or down votes on amendments in addition to faction ranking.
Pelanor Eldrich: You could do 25 propositions at end of term
Claude Desmoulins: Any problem with that?
Pelanor Eldrich: line item
Kendra Bancroft: I agree with Pel –line item veto
Claude Desmoulins: Sc already has line item, don’t they?
Claude Desmoulins: For example.
Pelanor Eldrich: That’s good. Make sure if they are referenda, that the questions are phrased very clearly. Nothing like the 1980 Quebec referendum question
Diderot Mirabeau: yes .. they may “rewrite and resubmit”
Gwyneth Llewelyn is silent, since those procedures for voting do not violate the Constitution in her opinion.
Claude Desmoulins: RA has passed 10 amendments this term.
Claude Desmoulins: SC has the right to approve, veto or modify each of those amendments .
Claude Desmoulins: separate from any other of the ten amendments.
Pelanor Eldrich: This sounds like election propositions in CA, those things are bloody verbose and cumbersome
Kendra Bancroft: The problem is that this body is positioning the SC as another political body, when in fact they are Constitutional scholars
Diderot Mirabeau: “modify and resubmit” .. subject to RA approval of course 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Under the current constitution
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d just want the
Kendra Bancroft: if they fail in that –they are by definition not fulfilling their role and are impeachable –end of story
Claude Desmoulins: Since they must assent to an amendment…
Pelanor Eldrich: SC to make sure the questions are clearly worded.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t want the people to go to the trouble of a referendum and then have the SC balk.
Claude Desmoulins: I want the SC to balk first.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can just comment on this saying that, from personal PoV, having to vote on a document with 50 items, each to have a paragraph to explain it, and doing a vote for each item… well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hardly possible in-world
Gwyneth Llewelyn: too many notecards to read 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: But if there’s a voting web site?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No problem there, so many good polling systems are freely available.
Pelanor Eldrich: Or maybe prop A (yes/no), Prop B (yes/no)
Kendra Bancroft: I think the RAs approach to the SC should be the same as it’s approach to the Guild.
Diderot Mirabeau: I agree with Gwyneth from a personal point of view .. it becomes too technical for the average citizen .. also different amendments may actually depend on each other .. we should leave the actual craftmanship of constitutional amendment to the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Diderot.
Kendra Bancroft: You commision the Guild to create a structure –similarly we should commision the SC to clarify a point we find unclear
Claude Desmoulins: I believe the people deserve the same right to be granular and consider each proposed amendment on its individual merits.
Diderot Mirabeau: (hi Aliasi)
Claude Desmoulins: Then why have the amendment mechanism at all?
Kendra Bancroft: indeed –why? It’s not the RAs reason of being
Claude Desmoulins: What is?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, that was just one possible PoV ? as long as the issue will not ‘confuse’ the citizens, the SC cannot find any problems with that ? ‘voting procedures’, if they’re somehow accountable, is all that is needed
Kendra Bancroft: Administrative in response to the will of the people
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hiya Aliasi 🙂 )
Aliasi Stonebender: (yo.)
Diderot Mirabeau: I think we’re talking past each other here .. I hear Claude as asking why have constitutional reform take place as individual amendments rather than en bloc in the RA
Pelanor Eldrich: Put the stuff on the ballot subject to SCs clarified wording, RA’s final wording approval as prop A/Z. Flesh out the propositions on the web or fourm postings
Claude Desmoulins: No.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I haven’t understand that either.
Claude Desmoulins likes individual amendments.
Diderot Mirabeau: ok sorry … what caused you to ask “why have the amendment procedure at all” then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes individual amendments
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra said, I think….
Claude Desmoulins: ….that the SC should clarify the constitution rather than the RA amend it. Did I understand you correctly, Kendra?
Pelanor Eldrich: Referendums are usally single question, divisive earth shattering things…at least in my experience.
Kendra Bancroft: Yes
Kendra Bancroft: at least the RA should not become an amendment factory
Kendra Bancroft: amendments should be a last resort not a first
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, amending the Constitution is one of the powers of the RA.
Claude Desmoulins: Hence my question about the purpose of the amendment procedure.
Kendra Bancroft: I ncfase of need, Claude
Claude Desmoulins: With due respect I see it this way.
Kendra Bancroft: I am regularly seeing us put forth amendments when simple clarification and interpretation would suffice
Diderot Mirabeau: I think there has been widespread consent to the need for a clearing up of the hastily written constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To better fit the Constitution to an ever-changing world, and an ever-changing group of citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘hastily’, lol ? it took us some 10 weeks, a 20-person team or so 😉
Diderot Mirabeau: it is also better from an ideal of transparency to have the basic rules codified as clear text in the constitution rather than hidden away in 541 legal interpretations of the SC
Claude Desmoulins: For one reason or another, a constitution full of ambiguity and in many cases flat out contrary to actual practice has been allowed to remain.
Diderot Mirabeau: you were working under a deadline nevertheless
Kendra Bancroft: That is why I don’t like amendments –a fluid Constitution is reinterpretaed each generation –not forcefully rewritten by an individual session of the RA
Claude Desmoulins: The SC hadn’t addressed it. The DPU ran on addressing the issue.
Claude Desmoulins: For example.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, or else we’d take a whole year ? but that’s past history, and this is the present.
Kendra Bancroft: And the SDF opposes the DPU on this issue
Claude Desmoulins: Your explanation of the meaning of IV,4 was very helpful.
Pelanor Eldrich: We don’t have a pile of precendents and case law to rely on
Claude Desmoulins: Why wasn’t it in writing somewhere? Where did it come from?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well… it came from the forums
Kendra Bancroft: Amendments ties the hands of future generations unecessarily
Diderot Mirabeau: I would like to restate my opinion that from an ideal of transparency and clarity vis a vis our citizenry it is better to have the wording and content of the constitution reflect actual practice rather than to force people to look through forums
Claude Desmoulins: Not if they have the same opportunities to amend that we do.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Claude & Diderot’s points are very valid ones. With 5500 posts or so, and crappy searching tools, all we can is to rely upon our +memory’
Kendra Bancroft: Then it becomes worthless paper
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And ‘memory’ is as good as each person’s memory is.
Kendra Bancroft: A Consttitution is framework –if the RA seeks to write legislation that is another matter
Claude Desmoulins: Besides, a referendum would likely cause fewer amendments. Isn’t that what you wnt?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also think it’s not a good system, to be able to agree on our ‘collective memory’ to make interpretations.
Claude Desmoulins: *want
Kendra Bancroft: we are turning the Consttitution into a law book
Kendra Bancroft: that is not it’s purpose
Pelanor Eldrich: It needs to reflect current practice and be concrete.
Pacifien Massiel: Some people would define constitutions as law documents. You might want to be clear on what definition everyone is working on.
Claude Desmoulins: If so that train left the station a long time ago. This RA did not write the campaign regulations into the constitution.
Aliasi Stonebender: Just as a minor example – for the longest time, the Constitution said the RA needed 7 member,s minimum. the RA has never had 7 members in the time I have been in Neualtenburg.
Pelanor Eldrich: Fair enough, it is a framework. We have 10 amendments, one is a change to and/or from and
Kendra Bancroft: yes –and those are fine –but this RA is starting to consider amendments as if they were simply laws –there are efforts to place needless amendments in the Constitution
Claude Desmoulins: For example?
Diderot Mirabeau: examples?
Kendra Bancroft: For example –an amendment to change how the RA submots amendments?
Kendra Bancroft: that is so bizarre
Kendra Bancroft: why wouldn’t the RA simply codify it’s own methods for an individual session?
Kendra Bancroft: why is that to be an amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: Unless you believe the document is cast in stone, there must be an amendment procedure.
Claude Desmoulins: Because it doesn’t change what the RA does in this respect.
Kendra Bancroft: I disagree
Claude Desmoulins: It adds something outside of RA procedure.
Claude Desmoulins: What would the RA do differently under this procedure?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the RA cannot pass a bill to change the amendments in a way that the Constitution is ‘overruled’. To do that, the Constitution itself has to be amended.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why the RA has this *power* of amending the Constitution 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It’s an unneeded addition to the Constitution that could very well be stricken out later –why the need to add it to a founding document?
Kendra Bancroft: when an internal procedural ruling for the RA would suffice
Aliasi Stonebender: Although the oddity of that is interesting… since the SC has the power to veto anything the RA passes that conflicts with the founding documents; amendments conflict by definition.
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll refer that to the dean.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, Aliasi.
Claude Desmoulins: Or is there a ‘basic structure’ provision like in the Indian constitution.
Claude Desmoulins: ?
Kendra Bancroft: How much time are we wasting by incorporating things as amendments which we know will be transient issues to our time only?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, I think that constitutional amendments are not bound to be interpreted by the constitution itself (for the obvious deadlock)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the only interpretations that would apply would be,…
Diderot Mirabeau: the other founding documents
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the founding documents
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Aliasi Stonebender: Good to have that clarified, then.
Kendra Bancroft: I never imagined Id become a federalist –but here we are
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, that’s one possible interpretation ? to make it official, the SC has to do it in a session.
Claude Desmoulins: If you want we can leave it as is and six people can change the constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the major problem I see
Kendra Bancroft: I realize I’m a minoiry party voice –but I am opposed in general to the RA becoming an amendment factory
Kendra Bancroft: Thats my basic stance on this issue
Diderot Mirabeau: I think you might actually agree on the need to tighten up the possibilities for amending the constitution
Diderot Mirabeau: why don’t you turn this agreement into something constructive
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra, are you troubled by the fact that six people can change the constitution?
Kendra Bancroft: Deeply
Claude Desmoulins: What do you propose we do about it?
Pelanor Eldrich: Do we not like Patrokulus’ proposal?
Diderot Mirabeau: I do.
Kendra Bancroft: recognize our responsabilities to future generations of Nburgers and take our responsabilities seriously. I have no problem with the mechanics –I have a problem with the mentality of change for the sake of change
Claude Desmoulins: The change here would be for the sake of slowing change, or so I thought.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t see how granting the RA more power to change the Constitution slows change
Diderot Mirabeau: pardon me but I thought we were discussing how to make it more difficult to have constitutional amendments passed in the future
Claude Desmoulins: How does adding a referendum without modifying the SC veto grant the RA more power?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, wait… Patroklus’ suggestion is the other way round, I think?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, it grants the RA less power.
Kendra Bancroft: it IS the other way around
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It even grants the SC less power as well.
Kendra Bancroft: Claude is arguing for less power in the SC isn’t he?
Claude Desmoulins: No
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In this case, both SC & RA would be lessened somewhat.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Except for the veto.
Claude Desmoulins: SC keeps the same veto it already has.
Kendra Bancroft: Good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, so it means: on the ‘nay’ issue, the SC gets the same power.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the ‘aye’ issue, the SC gets less power ? since it still needs a validation by the citizens.
Kendra Bancroft: Thats fine –as I say I have no problem with the mechanics
Pelanor Eldrich: yay!
Kendra Bancroft: I have problems with this RA becoming an amendment factory –many times we should just be asking the SC for clarification
Claude Desmoulins: So what have we been arguing about:)
Pelanor Eldrich: We could limit the number of amendments per term
Kendra Bancroft: We’re arguing about the very need for amendments as a our first response to an issue
Claude Desmoulins: Aren’t we then predicting the future?
Kendra Bancroft: No –we don’t need to make it law –we need to step back and ask first if an amendment is actually needed
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: Who’s SC archivist?
Pelanor Eldrich: Couldn’t the SC veto frivolous amendments?
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is no one appointed yet officially, hehe. We never came to that point on the last meetings’ agenda.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC talks too much, and concludes few things 😛
Claude Desmoulins: With no disrespect intended…
Kendra Bancroft: Couldn’t we be more responsable and not add to the beaurocracy of wasted meeting time when a simple request to the SC is all that is required?
Diderot Mirabeau: I’d leave that up to the judgement and consicence of individual members of the RA and citizens as is currently the case .. we cannot ignore that constituational amendment is to a certain extent a political aspiration and that full consensus cannot be …
Diderot Mirabeau: … reached on the attitude towards these
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s rare that a request to the SC is simple…. I thought that that was the whole point of ‘requesting’ the SC for input.
Claude Desmoulins: ….that person, as soon as they are appointed, needs to get on their horse and codify all the SC precedent that’s laying around.
Claude Desmoulins: I believe if it were available and findable,,,,
Diderot Mirabeau: for 1,000 L$ per month .. welcome to the jungle
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Claude is totally right on this!
Claude Desmoulins: ,,,,,it would clarify many things that the RA now proposes amendments to clarify.
Kendra Bancroft: I agree to that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Quite so. However, I might remind you that most of the clarifications you’ve seeked recently through amendments
Pelanor Eldrich: Case law, precedent, and SC opinions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: were almost all (to the best of my memory) *new* issues.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: new loopholes keep popping up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just like bugs in SL’s code 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: mortgage? 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Kendra Bancroft: exactly Gwyn –and that is what I am saying –was it necessary to have amendments passed? Or could not we have asked the SC for a ruling instead?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suppose that in some cases, that would have been possible.
Diderot Mirabeau: so we would get an out of date document and 574 footnotes saying “actually it’s not seven RA members it’s five”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That one, for instance, was definitely a needed amendment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And there are more
Claude Desmoulins: yet to be done?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, if I might be so bold… almost all amendments were ‘needed’ so far
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and in my PoV
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is perhaps a floow-up on a WAY old post
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “we’ll amend things later as needed, let’s start with the Constitution as we have it”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So there.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m quite likely quoting myself from 18 months ago, so I might not have the right words.
Kendra Bancroft: you have the gist.
Kendra Bancroft: Do we recognize that not all laws need be in the Constitution proper?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, Kendra. The less, the better!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: in fact
Gwyneth Llewelyn: even the Constitution right now
Pelanor Eldrich: I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: has too many contradictions already!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It could be ‘shorter’
Claude Desmoulins: Yes,
Pelanor Eldrich: I think we’ve passed 24 laws
Kendra Bancroft: I agree the Consttitution should get smaller
Claude Desmoulins: Unfortunately, many things often handled in regular legislation (size of legislature/election rules) are in our constitution.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Aliasi Stonebender: perhaps that simply means they don’t need to be there.
Kendra Bancroft: I’d like to submit a proposal that we create a seperate book of laws
Claude Desmoulins: I proposed making election rules a matter of regular law and got verbally mugged.
Pelanor Eldrich: We can have them stricken by *shudder* amendment.
Claude Desmoulins: We have one. The Neualtenburg Code.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude, this is a side-note… but sometimes I get the feeling that some people have the idea that the Constitution was written on a weekend with all-nighters 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: and boozed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, it really took 10 weeks or so of heavy discussion,
Kendra Bancroft: Then thats where we should be adding much of this –the SC can rule it’s Constitutioanlity if a citizen objects to the law
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but naturally enough, lots of points were simply badly written due to deadlines.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra, hmm…
Kendra Bancroft: Gwyn –it was
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the notion of a Code of Laws
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to supplement the Constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: was argued.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it would be impossible to write one up in those weeks 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we would have to draw upon one existing RL code of laws
Claude Desmoulins: I still maintain we have that de facto in the collected acts of the RA,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: like, hmm, Roman law, napoleonic law, even the Code of Hammurabi 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re usually starting points for systems with codes of laws… you might all know that 90% of the laws regarding property and divorce
Gwyneth Llewelyn: are almost all Roman law 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they had about a thousand years to discuss that 😉
Kendra Bancroft: Did you know most marriage laws in the US and UK are based on old viking laws?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Claude, just to say ? 24 laws are not really “a code of laws”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Kendra 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: They’re the beginning of one, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm well
Kendra Bancroft: Could we not consider starting a repositary of law?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: since we’ve defined originally N’burg to have a legal system based on precedent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s more a repository of laws, yes
Kendra Bancroft: that is seperate from the Constitution but beholden to it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I believe that’s the intention, yes.
Pelanor Eldrich: I thought that’s what the code was…we’ve passed more of these than amendments
Diderot Mirabeau: I find it contradictory to hear that “we’ve defined originally N’burg to have a legal system based on precedent”
Claude Desmoulins: I really thought we were doing that. Much of the current activity is a direct response to the high level of detail in the constitution itself.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, based on common law instead of civil law, then, Diderot 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: it is kinda funny Dido
Diderot Mirabeau: and at the same time be able to read in the constitution that “SC members are not bound by a strict reading of the constitution, precedent ” et cetera
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the key word there is *strict*
Diderot Mirabeau: the meaning of which needs an interpretation itself .. based on precedent presumably
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or not.
Diderot Mirabeau: oh do you see it defined anywhere?
Kendra Bancroft: and the SC can define that by interpretation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Rather members of the SC are required to draw upon their individual fields of expertise to solve complex social issues.”
Diderot Mirabeau: that is hardly strict
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I mean… the interpretation should not be strict
Diderot Mirabeau: anyway .. this is getting philosophical .. let’s reserve it for the SC meeting afterparty 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, LOL
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: If you aren’t going to use the written law and constitution as the primary source for interpretation, why write it down?
Diderot Mirabeau: I certainly am
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a framework
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm, yes, I see Claude’s point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that’s still the primary source.
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t wish to force the SC to be strict constructionists.
Diderot Mirabeau: but there’s a difference between “primary source” and “strict reading”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem is that when you just have 24 laws, there might not be enough precedent.,
Pelanor Eldrich: yuck
Kendra Bancroft: It’s like in the US –privacy is not mentioned in the Constitution –but has been deduced by penumbra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and once deduced thusly, it became ‘precedent’ 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: There seems to be quite a bit of precedent that no one can find.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s the intention.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Pelanor Eldrich: Did we figure out what to do about referenda?
Diderot Mirabeau: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In a sense, I think we’re back into the Middle Ages ? lots of information around, but you can’t find it 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: weve talked it to death –we could put it up to a vote
Pelanor Eldrich: That SC archivist better get busy cuz I’m gonna ask for a ruling or opinion everyday
Claude Desmoulins: Where’s your librarian when you need him?
Diderot Mirabeau: and it could even be changed .. in so far as it relies on a forum posting for documentation
Diderot Mirabeau: now _that’s_ scary
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess no one is interested in that daunting task, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and good point, Diderot, hehe
Claude Desmoulins: We’d have to go seven day and do we even agree on what we’d be voting on?
Diderot Mirabeau: I don’t feel sure that you agree on what you’re voting on .. I’d feel a lot more confident if the proposal was put in wording orally here
Claude Desmoulins: I’d rather table and have someone resubmit.
Kendra Bancroft: Put it in words, Claude –and we’ll vote on it/
Claude Desmoulins: We have several versions on the table.
Claude Desmoulins: It’s an amendment, hence 2/3, hence 7 day.
Claude Desmoulins: Here’s where I think we are.
Claude Desmoulins: Amend as follows.
Diderot Mirabeau: the one I noticed getting the most attention was subjecting all constitutional amendments that receive a 2/3 vote from RA and an aye from SC to a referendum at the end of an RA term
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Kendra Bancroft: That seems do-able
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How exactly the mechanics are done can be left for a later stage.
Claude Desmoulins: After the ratification of any amendment by the SC, the amendment is submitted to a binding referendum of the citizenry at the same time as the next RA election…..
Pelanor Eldrich: Line item, clear, up or down
Kendra Bancroft: See that turns us into a mob rule again
Claude Desmoulins: ….Each amendment is a separate item and requires a simple majority of yes votes among votes cast and a voter turnourt of greater than 50%’
Diderot Mirabeau: two outstanding issues … electorate votes aye / no en bloc or per amendment … and what is the required majority by the electorate .. are those to be considered “details”? 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Amendment A-Z, Prop A-Z
Diderot Mirabeau: ah Claude preempted me on that one 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was sure he would, Diderot 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I prefer separation as is no doubt obvious.
Diderot Mirabeau: I’d like to hear Kendra’s basic outlook on that proposal before we adjourn / submit it to a vote
Kendra Bancroft: I’m fine with your proposal –I’ll be voting NO” on it.
Diderot Mirabeau: reason being?
Diderot Mirabeau: you don’t like it getting harder to implement a constitutional amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: WHat would you change to be able to vote yes?
Pelanor Eldrich: You prefer it en bloc?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: shh Diderot, kendra’s allowed to vote no without giving a reason!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: yes but I’m part of the electorate
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t like the idea of an uniformed citizenry not present for the counter-balancing arguments having the chance to vote on issues affecting the Constitution that they may or may not understand
Claude Desmoulins: So you would prefer to leave things as they are?
Pelanor Eldrich: We respect your opinion as co-founder
Diderot Mirabeau: the way I see it .. involving the citizenry in a referendum like this actually encourages the ideal that Neualtenburg was set up around … promoting the active citizen involvement in political life
Kendra Bancroft: That’s what Ive been saying. Though I’d add line item veto to strengthen the SCs ability to rule some ideas of the RA as favorable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We respect *all* opinions!
Kendra Bancroft: Citizens become involved by input at meetings –and running for elected office
Claude Desmoulins: Explain to me why the Sc doesn’t have a line item veto as is?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, claude, you can write up a constitutional amendment with 574 items.
Kendra Bancroft: because they are subject to voting up or down on bills as submitted
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SC can only say ‘aye’ or ‘no’ on the whole document at the moment.
Diderot Mirabeau: SC may “rewrite and resubmit”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Claude Desmoulins: I respectfully disagree- exactly Diderot.
Kendra Bancroft: wouldnt line item streamline the process?
Pelanor Eldrich: If I were in the SC, I’d shitcan an amendment with 574 items, as surely there’s one that would rub me the wrong way legally.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pelanor 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: That is line item de facto, no?
Diderot Mirabeau: I think the present wording gives us opportunity for detailed input through a formal process .. I see no need for an unnecessary amendment to introduce the particular word of the “line item veto”
Kendra Bancroft: I like the term shitcan –lets put it in the Constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the SC might find 573 of them blameless… and would have to veto the whole document… and ask the SC to start from scratch…
Claude Desmoulins: No.
Claude Desmoulins: They would veto, resubmit with only the 573 items they approved.
Diderot Mirabeau: I would
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s Canadian for “veto” 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: and that doesnt strike you as a waste of time?
Claude Desmoulins: If nothing else it forces the RA to read the veto carefully.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m naturally talking extremes here.
Claude Desmoulins: We want to slow down constitutional change, remember?
Kendra Bancroft: we want to slow down RA Constitutional change
Claude Desmoulins: And a line item w/o referendum does that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, positively thinking, I’d probably expect that a 574-line amendment would be publicly discussed, and the SC would say that it just disagrees with *one* item, so would you reconsider it, and just submit the remaining 573….
Diderot Mirabeau: are you arguing that the SC should be allowed to make changes to a bill and not have to resubmit it to the RA first before approval in its modified form?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack I disagree with that, from a personal point of view!
Kendra Bancroft: If we are to accept the SC as arbiters of the Constitution –then yes
Diderot Mirabeau: it might severely perversify the original intentions of the lawmakers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I have to disagree, since it would make the SC a legislative body ? which it isn’t, and shouldn’t be.
Diderot Mirabeau: *pervert(?)
Kendra Bancroft: I’m njust stating my view here and how I intend to vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: and it’s much appreciated 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I would repectfully submit that I have grave concerns about the line item proposal you present. I also have my suspicions that The SC isn’t chomping at the bit on this one either 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: I thought It’d be here’s 574, SC says “Shitcan due to this opinion on 234”, RA rewrites, resubmits, then SC says “Okidokey”, then referendum..no?
Kendra Bancroft: Then I wouldn’t worry about it –since it’s likelyhood of passing is nil isn’t it?
Claude Desmoulins: But I believe Ms. Bancroft has no desire for any kind of referendum.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be the ‘regular’ working on what I consider healthy government, Pelanor.
Claude Desmoulins: Therefore, we may be at an impasse.
Diderot Mirabeau: I still think it makes sense to not have amendments come into effect before commencement of next term since it would give the electorate a chance to hold accountable the politicains who approved of the amendment before it has an impact on society
Pelanor Eldrich: C’mon, maybe we need compromise #1. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: I am surprised at your manifest distrust of the population.
Kendra Bancroft: That makes sense to me Dido
Claude Desmoulins: What was compromise #1 again?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: After all I’ve heard lately, I also agree with you, Didders 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Just being silly…I haven’t thought of it yet…
Kendra Bancroft: and it is the proper way to involve the citizenry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And also make constitutional amendments much harder, and only once per term.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s consider this.
Pelanor Eldrich: Oh yeah, ok, how about referendum at mid-term?
Diderot Mirabeau: the referendum is not politically feasible I believe
Pelanor Eldrich: So this referendum is only constitutional amendments, right?
Claude Desmoulins: If an amendment is delayed until the beginning of the next term. and the populace votes out the proposing RA.
Claude Desmoulins: Then the amendment comes into force with the new RA who vote to repeal it.
Claude Desmoulins: Which doesn’t happen until the next term.
Pelanor Eldrich: ahhh
Claude Desmoulins: Awkward.
Diderot Mirabeau: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why the RA proposing the amendment has to approve it first, the SC ratify it, and only then have simultaneous elections + referendum on the amendments.
Diderot Mirabeau: but at least its better to have new people govern under the powers granted by the old people than have the authors of the original amendment actually use the new powers given to them by their own amendment if the people doesn’t like it
Pelanor Eldrich: Yeah, end of term
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table this until next week. Clearly there is more discussion to be had.Claude Desmoulins: Kendra. I have one more question.
Diderot Mirabeau: but Gwyneth as I understand it the referendum is not politically feasible?
Claude Desmoulins: Do you still believe I am attempting an illegal and anti constitutional populist power grab?
Diderot Mirabeau: I never believed that
Kendra Bancroft: I beleive that your stance is a populist stance. I don’t believe you are using it for power
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and Diderot ? why isn’t it ‘politically feasible’?)
Diderot Mirabeau: oops .. I’m not Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and sorry to interrupt, Claude & Kendra ? I’m typing too slow.
Claude Desmoulins: Fair enough. I’ll accept the label of populist. I’ve been called worse 🙂
Diderot Mirabeau: it seems there will not be a qualified majority for it in the RA
Claude Desmoulins: Is there an objection to adjournment?
Diderot Mirabeau: no
Kendra Bancroft: none here –and I hope that this body will at least respect me for voting my concious
Claude Desmoulins: Absolutely.
Pelanor Eldrich: You betcha!
Claude Desmoulins: We are adjourned.
The meeting closed at 17:51 Linden time.RA Meeting: May 03, 2006
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Claude Desmoulins: And we’re live.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch the box.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Flyingroc Chung has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Flyingroc Chung: done
Patroklus Murakami: done
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope I clicked it as well.
Claude Desmoulins: First.
Claude Desmoulins: With Logan’s departure, there is no one left on the DPU list. Therefore under I,2 the faction has named Pleanor Eldrich to fill the seat.
Sudane Erato: great!
Claude Desmoulins: First item.
Claude Desmoulins: The SC hearing.
Claude Desmoulins: Patroklus, this was yours.
Patroklus Murakami: Yes, as I’ve outlined on the forums i think the SC reached a fair decision but by unfair means
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens.
Patroklus Murakami: I believe the process used was flawed
Patroklus Murakami: but i dont’ believe that the solution is impeachment you’ll be pleased to hear
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why was the process flawed?
Patroklus Murakami: if the RA agrees with me i propose a motion of censure to indicate the RAs disapproval
Patroklus Murakami: the process was flawed because there was no legal basis (that i can find) for the sanciton imposed
Patroklus Murakami: *sanction
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. So… you mean, the sanctions should not be up for the Sc to decide?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who should decide the sanctions then?
Patroklus Murakami: i think the SC should have ordered a trial and invited ulrika to present herself for trial
Claude Desmoulins: But due process doesn’t necessarily equal a trial.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah… again, that is our (unresolved) issue.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, all the UDHR says… let me quote it properly
Claude Desmoulins: I was troubled by the lack of separation between investigation/prosecution/ and judgement.
Claude Desmoulins: However.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Everyone is entitled in full equality to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: UDHR, Art 10
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We had a hearing, it was public, it was fair, Ulrika was invited, she declined to be present.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but sent her testimonial
Flyingroc Chung: I think the sanction is too light to merit a trial, it’s a simple administrative act. The guld does this all the time…
Claude Desmoulins: And I do question how independent the tribunal was in this case since the same people investigated, brought charges, and ruled on their result.
Patroklus Murakami: i would contend that the SC was not independant and impartial
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is another issue, FR, and the more we talk about it, the more I tend to agree with you.
Patroklus Murakami: for claude’s reasons
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Claude. that is indeed a limitation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I do agree.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But alas
Patroklus Murakami: by what legal authority does the SC or Guild impose these sanctions?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we don’t have enough people .
Flyingroc Chung: “Its governmental role is to interpret and enforce the constitution.” — article 3 section 1
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s the SC’s task
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You might argue about in which way the SC does “enforcement”
Claude Desmoulins: It would be better if specific penalties were indicated for certain violations, but the authors of the founding documents didn’t do that.
Patroklus Murakami: that does not, to my mind, empower the SC to bar a non-citizen from becomin a citizen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course not, Claude ? since when the Constitution was created, there were no laws.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sanctions come after the laws are created
Claude Desmoulins: Absent those written penal codes, shall no punishment exist?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, so the issue you have is with the legality of the specific sanction applied, Patroklus?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Flyingroc Chung: Hm, as far as I understand, the SC determined that from previous actions, Ulrika was unlikely to respect the constitution, thus bars her from becoming a citizen…
Patroklus Murakami: that is a main objection
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds FR
Patroklus Murakami: i’m saying they had no power to do so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who validates the oath of upholding the requirements for being a citizen?
Claude Desmoulins: Could they not be seen to be interpreting the constitutional provision which requires citizens uphold the constitution?
Patroklus Murakami: sorry gwyn, could you elaborate?
Flyingroc Chung: The constitution requires every citizen to abide by the constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. if someone is handed the deed notecard and the sim owner says: “do you agree to obey the laws?” and people say “I do” and they are lying, who validates that?
Flyingroc Chung: VI, section 1: “Citizens must agree to uphold the constitution.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, and in my mind, “upholding the constitution” is one of the SC’s tasks.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, if a citizen is not willing to go with the laws/constitutions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s the SC’s job to gently nudge them
Patroklus Murakami: i interpet ‘upholding the constitution’ so refer to the SCs role in interpreting laws passed by the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Patroklus Murakami: *to refer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Patroklus I see your point!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So who enforces those laws then?
Claude Desmoulins: How does that apply to a citizen not on RA given the section FR cited?
Patroklus Murakami: not to disciplining non-citizens
Flyingroc Chung: well actually the word here is “enforce”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, who does the enforcement then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And what does “enforce” mean?
Flyingroc Chung: enforce |en?f?rs| verb trans. compel observance of or compliance with (a law, rule, or obligation).
Patroklus Murakami: under the current arrangements there is no legal basis for enforcement, except that bestowed to teh sim owner by linden law
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you Patroklus… although all this might be a bit lost, the SC did, in fact, discuss this *a lot*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I happen to disagree. While I might, as a matter of principle, disagree that teh SC does all the job ? interpretation, policing, judiciary, prosecution, judging, and jury
Patroklus Murakami: i have read the transcript carefully, i know everyone worked very hard on this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the point is, that was always been interpreted as being the SC’s tasks
Claude Desmoulins: My sense is that although I might not agree with the whole process, it was reasonable given the lack of explicit written procedures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just “reasonable”? Hmpf 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: And within the SC’s scope under the current documents.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, although what I’m *not* saying is that this should be “written in stone” ? I’d be totally for a separation of powers inside the SC, as soon as the population allows it
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe the thing to do is fix the system rather than chiding the SC for applying as best they could, even if all ddo not concur with the details of that application.
Patroklus Murakami: it is not a severe sanction, and i would not die in a ditch over this, i just wanted to record my observation/dissent
Patroklus Murakami: i agree claude
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s move on, if we could.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I’m just trying to understand the core issue about your disagreement.
Patroklus Murakami: that is the purpose behind the constituional amendment i’ve proposed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, under your model, the RA would apply sanctions.
Flyingroc Chung: I actually agree with Ulrika on that one, patroklus. 😉 it should be a bill instead.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is sort of weird.
Flyingroc Chung: though it *may* possibly have some constitutional problems…. hm.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s do that next meeting.
Patroklus Murakami: happy to debate it on the forums 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, since the SC’s role as “enforcers” would be weaker, since the RA would be able NOT to apply sanctions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok sorry Claude
Flyingroc Chung: debating on the forums is bad for my psyche.
Claude Desmoulins: A reminder.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I agree FR 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Per Kendra’s request all action items will go to seven day discussion/vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Claude Desmoulins: Next – Negotiations with Ulrika.
Flyingroc Chung: will we have the censure motion to vote on as well then?
Claude Desmoulins: I agree that we should seek a full and permanent settlement of all Ulrika’s claims
Claude Desmoulins: If Someone submits it.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: ….Ulrika makes a public statement as to what all those claims are…
Patroklus Murakami: i neglected to submit a motion, so you have nothing to vote on – my bad
Claude Desmoulins: ….indicates what compensation or damages she seeks,,,,
Flyingroc Chung: the SC has aked her for those, I believe.
Claude Desmoulins: ,,,and expresses her willingness to negotiate a settlement.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If the RA allows it, you can submit it “in session”
Claude Desmoulins: Have you heard anything back?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, FR, we did
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No answers from her.
Claude Desmoulins: The ball’s in her court then.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So either she expects us to do her work, ie. her past claim in January demanding US$1000 for “her past work”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or well… I’m certainly not going to write reminders every other day!
Patroklus Murakami: did she give a breakdown in january of what that was for?
Sudane Erato: no
Claude Desmoulins: Given the SC’s indication that it believes itself to have sole authority over forum moderation, I’d like to table 4-24 at least until the SC finishes its own revisions to the guidelines.
Flyingroc Chung: I thought it was done?
Claude Desmoulins: BRB
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, FR, although it’s always the same problem with the SC. We need to meet to officially approve, although they are approved by email.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Approvals by email” are not a valid procedure for the SC 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’ll have to wait again until Diderot returns.
Sudane Erato: can’t the RA approve them in present form..?
Sudane Erato: dependent on the SC approving them?
Flyingroc Chung: Hm, 4-24 may possibly be unconstitutional, since forum moderation is the SC’s jurisdiction?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is feeling the same
Claude Desmoulins: Perhaps after the SC releases a version 4-24 could be revisited as a recommendation.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! It can also be done the other way round, ie use that bill as recommendation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since the document was written by Diderot, actually, it’s *quite long* 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: But I thought you said the guidelines were essentially done already.
Flyingroc Chung: heh
Flyingroc Chung: it’s a good document, I think.
Claude Desmoulins: BRB
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, it’s fully written and approved, minus spell checking, it only needs formal approval by the SC
Flyingroc Chung: I suggest we wait for that to come out, then.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* I’d like that…
Claude Desmoulins: I do like the logging idea.
Claude Desmoulins: But let’s table.
Claude Desmoulins: Let the SC go first here.
Patroklus Murakami: i’m afraid I need to leave -RL commitments tomorrow
Claude Desmoulins: Thanks for coming Patroklus
Flyingroc Chung: eep, afk, panicking student. brb
Sudane Erato: bye Patroklus! 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah thanks for being around!
Patroklus Murakami: good day/night all
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye, patroklus, take care 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: We’ll wait for FR.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so off the record again, my brother says he’ll be available on the 14th of May, 2 PM SL time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a Sunday ? would that be fine, Claude?
Claude Desmoulins: Mother’s Day here in US.
Flyingroc Chung: back-ish
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, welcome-backish, FR 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: OK 4-26
Claude Desmoulins: FR?
Flyingroc Chung: ack, sorry, lol. last day of submissions for student projects.
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Tanner
Gwyneth Llewelyn: garnet, hi there!
Claude Desmoulins: Pelanor says he’s en route.
Sudane Erato: great!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, just a short comment on 4-26 ? excellent clarification!
Flyingroc Chung: Ok, 4-26
Sudane Erato: hi Garnet! 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: Hello all
Flyingroc Chung: I think what I was trying there was to make clear what I assumed was true already, when I joined nburg.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome, welcome 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra has been very vocal in her opposition. Even submitting her own bill to do essentially the opposite thing .
Claude Desmoulins: Since her submission was after the agenda deadline it will go on the next meeting.
Flyingroc Chung: That, basically, the guild is the caretaker of the public structures of neualtenburg.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the Guild has sole responsability for that
Flyingroc Chung: and so they have the, administrative duty to make modifications etc, to public structures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second FR as well ? I always thought that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seems that we all were “wrong” 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs*
Flyingroc Chung: the budget part was put there so the guild can’t go … “we;ve done all this work, now pay us”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I see no violations of the Constitution that are immediately apparent.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah ok… excellent point, FR 🙂
Sudane Erato: which is fine… it seems
Claude Desmoulins: Unfortunately, I believe those who would discuss this vigorously aren’t present at the moment.
Sudane Erato: so you’ll have to discuss it via email
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I see 🙁
Sudane Erato: no…
Sudane Erato: sorry
Claude Desmoulins: As an RA member I don’t want to have to vote on every texture change.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed
Flyingroc Chung: actually, if I understand the guild structure correctly, its supposed to be an organization of *skilled* artisans
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I think that there has been a lot of paranoia flowing in the whole concept of N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to the point thatevery single action
Claude Desmoulins: Otherwise you risk aesthetics by committee.
Flyingroc Chung: and just as we trust the SC to do the right thing in interpreting laws, we should trust the guild in judging aesthetic quality, and making good builds.
Sudane Erato: well…. I’m trying to pull together notes now on a structure for what the Guild might actually be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I totally second FR
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either the City does not trust the Guild for “taking care” of the city structures ? and there are mechanisms for doing *that*
Sudane Erato: technically, the Guild is indivuals
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or the Guild should really have a free hand to deal with these issue.
Sudane Erato: so it may not be that the Guild “does” this or that
Sudane Erato: wb! 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: sorry I crashed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Sudane…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I never thought of that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess that’s why there is such a strong emphasis on the Guild*master*
Sudane Erato: there’s really no structure now…
Claude Desmoulins: But surely the guild will soon have a mechanism for decision making.
Sudane Erato: and thats what i’m hoping to put in place
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hopefully, yes
Sudane Erato: yes…
Sudane Erato: sure… in particular the election of the Guild master
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion?
Sudane Erato: and the concluding of positions
Claude Desmoulins: Since we can’t vote here?
Garnet Psaltery: I only want to know who’s making houses so I can buy one for my new plot :o)
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, when I read that proposal, I was thinking about the 2nd sim 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But FR wrote it to say: “Public city structures include, but is not limited to:”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “not limited to:” is the key here 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra is iw.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right! Kendra is in!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Scope Cleaver: Gwyneth?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Scope.
Scope Cleaver: Hey how are you, where are you?
Scope Cleaver: lol
Flyingroc Chung: hey kendra
Claude Desmoulins: Kendra, I hazard a guess that you’d like to comment on 4-26.
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: right here, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hello Kendra, welcome 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Heya
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Got here as quick as I possibly could
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Scope
Scope Cleaver: Hi, this is a private meeting right?
Kendra Bancroft: 4-26 was which one again?
Claude Desmoulins: Non citizens may attend but not speak/
Kendra Bancroft: and wb, Garnet L)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Scope ? the public is welcome to attend, in silence 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: my guild proposal
Scope Cleaver: I was looking for “Virtual Reality Information and Conferencing” and it TPed me downstairs lol
Scope Cleaver: ok.
Claude Desmoulins: Is that Lucid’s
Scope Cleaver: Yea from his profile
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild proposal –I have nothing to discuss on –I know my vote
Flyingroc Chung: ah the VR buildin is in the NW corner of the si.
Kendra Bancroft: Im very against it
Garnet Psaltery: Neualtenburg (26, 228, 173)
Sudane Erato: NW corner of the sim
Scope Cleaver: ok thx
Kendra Bancroft: My Bill 4-28 actually shows how I address that same thing in a vastly different way
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “vastly” as in: the opposite
Kendra Bancroft: yes, Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Kendra, this is basically defining the whole purpose of the Guild in relation to the city’s public areas.
Kendra Bancroft: I know –but I dont like the ability for the Guild to change structures with no RAQ approval
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either the guild is just “an outsourcing group” for doing fancy work, or they are the effective “builders of the city”.
Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I fully understood both proposals.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pelanor ? welcome!
Garnet Psaltery: Hello Pelanor
Kendra Bancroft: hence my bill 4-28 which has a moritorium on changes for 7 days –with RA approval
Claude Desmoulins: Welcome Pelanor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Flyingroc Chung: sorry, I have to help this student with his code remotely, but let me say we’ve probably pretty much have our respective positions defined already.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll repeat my comments of before…
Kendra Bancroft: My bill doesnt rule out changes –but it makes them more considered
Pelanor Eldrich: sorry I’m late
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm effectively it puts the power of defining what the city is in the hands of the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I sadly haven’t got the RA meetings of early 2005 with me
Claude Desmoulins: And reduces the Guild to a blocker of action and a tree custodian 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But at that time, the definition of the RA role was to define “zoning”
Kendra Bancroft: But it also increases citizen participation in the process
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the Guild to do effective building
Kendra Bancroft: I disagree, Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You disagree with the RA meetings of early 2005?
Kendra Bancroft: As I recall –when I was Gildemeister –RA approval was a constant on any changes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: major changes, yes
Kendra Bancroft: How did we suddenly come to change that
Kendra Bancroft: I couldnt scratch my ass without RA approval
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see.
Claude Desmoulins: I wasn’t here at the time. Why?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm there was definitely much RA input
Gwyneth Llewelyn: example: how much the Biergarten or the Church could be remodelled
Kendra Bancroft: We met over the Biergarten floor and wall changes for 2 months
Flyingroc Chung: When I came in, my impression was that the guild had a free hand in alteration of city structures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or if the “Tiny City” was a “legally approved building” or not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s true
Claude Desmoulins: I hope the RA has better things to do with the time than debate textures and which prims to delete.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: same with the casino, it took 2 months or so to get rid of it
Kendra Bancroft: and now I’m supposed to support the Guild being able to change things as they will with no approval at all?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right
Claude Desmoulins: ….under the layout provision.
Kendra Bancroft: Not according to 4-28 as writ
Claude Desmoulins: 4-28 is next meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in all fairness, my opinion here is the middle ground: I don’t want the RA to have any decision power in *aesthetics*
Kendra Bancroft: Nobody is saying they do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know.
Flyingroc Chung: 4-26 will allow you to change the structure, but not the function of the building.
Kendra Bancroft: They are voting on whether something needs to be changed
Kendra Bancroft: not what they are changed to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, let me give some examples on what I find reasonable…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: for instance, changing all lamps from gaslights to electric
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t find that reasonable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well… I would say it’s reasonable, if it “doesn’t significantly alter the theme and layout of the city or adversely affect the performance of the sim.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Kendra Bancroft: It does alter the theme considerably in my view
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, blowing up the Rathaus and replacing it by a mall ? that would be strictly forbidden
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I see that the problem here is the issue of “level of detail”
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Kendra Bancroft: Decorations in my view are changes the Guild can make
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How much should the RA legislate… and how much leeway should the Guild have?
Kendra Bancroft: without approval
Kendra Bancroft: unless they seek money
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I definitely agree on *that*, Kendra!
Kendra Bancroft: But lets say The Guild wanted to uproot the fountain and replace it
Flyingroc Chung: I think 4-26 addresses all those concerns already. The layout and theme provision.
Kendra Bancroft: Sorry –no –it requires an approval
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see, and I tend to agree ? or replace the fountain with something else
Kendra Bancroft: The Fountain was bought by the citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well well
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Kendra Bancroft: any structure paid for by the citizens cannot be replaced without approval
Kendra Bancroft: Ill give you an example
Kendra Bancroft: I hire a contractor to do my kitchen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That also seems quite reasonable, yes
Kendra Bancroft: Its paid for
Kendra Bancroft: That contractor does not have the right to come back and redo my kitchen because they gort a better idea
Kendra Bancroft: unless I okay that
Kendra Bancroft: The Rathaus for example –paid for by the citizens
Kendra Bancroft: it is no longer a gUild entity
Claude Desmoulins: But the Guild is more than the city contractor., isn’t it?
Kendra Bancroft: But we okayed this Rathaus
Kendra Bancroft: We didnt okay a different Rathaus
Sudane Erato: the city had no idea what kind of Rathaus you would build
Claude Desmoulins: Didn’t the RA OK a Rathaus and left to the Guild the details thereof?
Sudane Erato: as to its look
Kendra Bancroft: In my Bill 4-28 –they would have
Kendra Bancroft: and in fact I did show sjetches
Pelanor Eldrich: I think the guild is city contractor, city manager, immigration, IRS, treasury and chamber of commerce
Sudane Erato: sorry… don’t remember… 🙁
Flyingroc Chung: why not make the guild the executive branch 😉
Kendra Bancroft: I’m just curious why the change now? As Gildemeister I was never given that luxury to change as I will
Claude Desmoulins: I can see the payment argument. SInce the RA at one point approved the paymentfor a building they’d need to approve the depreciation of that investment.
Claude Desmoulins: But why everything?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, assume that the RA pays for everything
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which will, for instance, happen in the 2nd sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: what then?
Claude Desmoulins: Hmmm.
Sudane Erato: sorry… I’ll be back
Kendra Bancroft: Then the matter is still in play –as I’m sure the Guild would like to be paid for changes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Kendra Bancroft: The example of the walls being changed for example
Kendra Bancroft: why?
Claude Desmoulins: If the Guild wishes payment it’s in the hands of the RA anyway.
Kendra Bancroft: They were clearly tagged as being my creation
Flyingroc Chung: Again, let me argue that the guild, being skilled artisans are the best equipped to decide on aesthetics, on what stuctures need to be replaced, or otherwise modified.
Kendra Bancroft: There was noreason for the Guild to just change them
Yogeswari Padar: hi!
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll read the bill and kinda jumped in halfway, but I remember suggesting that the guild have it’s own funds, controled by GM separate from City Treasury
Yogeswari Padar: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh Pelanor…. yes 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Thats the business of the Guild to raise their own treasury
Kendra Bancroft: we vote to give them money
Kendra Bancroft: we don’t need to tell them how to handle there money
Claude Desmoulins: But if you require approval for all changes isn’t that moot.
Kendra Bancroft: But the matter of the walls being replaced –it’s a violation of the Constitution
Pelanor Eldrich: Wait…there’s City Money, and there’s Guild Money is what I’m saying. The Guild $ is used to pay city artisans for contracted work.
Kendra Bancroft: if they had been required to get approval for the change then the matter could have been discussed
Claude Desmoulins: Why giive it to the guild if they don’t have the authority to spend it w/o RA
Kendra Bancroft: Your bill, FR is just a way to reverse NL 3-10
Kendra Bancroft: and I think NL 3-10 needs to be stronger
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there is always a problem in timings and dealing with emergencies.
Pelanor Eldrich: The GM can do whatever with Guild $
Claude Desmoulins: Not if 4-28 passes.
Kendra Bancroft: There was no emergency –Are we giving up the ability to declare an emergency to The Guild?
Pelanor Eldrich: The GM has fiduciary obligations with City Treasury funds
Flyingroc Chung: My bill is how I read NL 3-10 to be, frankly.
Kendra Bancroft: Your bill as you even stated is an attempt to delete NL 3-10, FR
Claude Desmoulins: I would prefer clarify.
Kendra Bancroft: It totally supercedes it and destroys it’s intent
Flyingroc Chung: replace NL 3-10, as a matter of practicality. I think it’s really more of a clarification.
Kendra Bancroft: That’s not a clarification
Claude Desmoulins: If we are unwilling to give the Guild some autonomy, why have them, except as a civic work force?
Pelanor Eldrich: BTW do you have quorum?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, but we’re voting everything seven day.
Kendra Bancroft: They already have enough autonomy –I don’t see them using it
Kendra Bancroft: Nobody ever accused my administration of the same Guild as being simply a workforce
Kendra Bancroft: People thought I had too much power
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes.
Kendra Bancroft: Because I knew how to use it
Claude Desmoulins: The power to change decorations?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, more than decorations were changed.
Kendra Bancroft: Look what I managed to accomplish as Gildemeister!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I agree that some things were never changed.
Kendra Bancroft: a lot more3 than decorations
Kendra Bancroft: Is the new GM suddenly left with less power that I seemed to weild with a hand that some thought to strong?
Kendra Bancroft: No. She has the same exact powers
Kendra Bancroft: Let me put it another way
Kendra Bancroft: Make these changes –and now imagine that I’m the Gildemeister
Kendra Bancroft: scary ain’t it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The tricky bit on this 4-26
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is basically: “The Guild is authorized to make alterations, including replacement of all public city structures”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s tricky.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And: “While the Guild may commence with projects before RA approval for a budget, it should be cognizant that a budget for the project may not be approved.”
Kendra Bancroft: Exactly
Kendra Bancroft: I’d have a field day with that
Claude Desmoulins: How do we prevent RA micromanagement then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the Guild can opt to work for free and change whatever they want.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s exactly the problem here, Claude.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only way out is ? like it’s done in RL.
Kendra Bancroft: How is a 7 day moritorium micromanagement?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The guild submits a proposal with *detailed* planning
Kendra Bancroft: It allows for change but offers discretion
Claude Desmoulins: I see your point, but neither do I want the RA approving every little thing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, you do it like in RL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Detailed planning by the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And RA approves it “overall”
Kendra Bancroft: Then add a rider that work purchased by the City cannot be changed without RA approval
Kendra Bancroft: then I’d be fine
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s wait on FR to see if he’ll accept that as a friendly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the whole point here for me is just to avoid the RA’s micromanagement, and, contrarywise, impede the RA to make aesthetical considerations.
Claude Desmoulins: I’d agree with that.
Kendra Bancroft: I just want to be able to impede un-needed changes
Pelanor Eldrich: Kendra, you’d make one *hot* WWI Prussian officer…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Flyingroc Chung: uh, sorry, let me read up
Kendra Bancroft: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Thanks, pel
Claude Desmoulins: FR, Kendra has offered an amendment, will you take it as a friendly – requiring RA approval of changes to structures that had been paid for with city funds.
Pelanor Eldrich: We are in a bit of a pickelhaube here…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, on the long term, since I expect that *all* public structures get funds from the RA…
Flyingroc Chung: I think that’s reasonable
Flyingroc Chung: sure
Kendra Bancroft: May I explain my motivation
Kendra Bancroft: perhaps that would help
Kendra Bancroft: I dont want to see a Gildemeister shut down competition from Guild members –and I don’t want artisans working for free
Kendra Bancroft: Ig the Gilde gets in the habit of changing things we are back where we started
Claude Desmoulins: That should be their choice. (to work for free)
Claude Desmoulins: If they want to.
Kendra Bancroft: with eventually disgruntled workers coming back and saying they suddenly want the stuff back they did for free
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, on a previous term, the RA had an agreement with the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that forthcoming changes on public space would always been paid
Kendra Bancroft: and I see this measure as making that slip away
Claude Desmoulins: That’s why we’re emphasizing documentation of our agreements.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, definitely 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: by forcing RA approval we make sure the Gildemeister pays their members
Pelanor Eldrich: Didn’t we pass a city infrastrucuture protecting city IP?
Kendra Bancroft: No –But I’ve proposed one
Claude Desmoulins: I’m ok with the amendment. as a change to a paid for building alters the value of a city fixed asset.
Kendra Bancroft: for next weeks meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I have never thought that, Claude! Good point!
Kendra Bancroft: Thank you, Claude –this will ensure that the Guild members will actually seek payment
Object: Sit here.
Object: Sit here.
Sudane Erato: Yogeswari is a long time citizen…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, you *could* approve the change to 4-26 now and vote on it, there is a quorum 😉
Kendra Bancroft: I just think it’s very easy in SL for artists to gip themselves
Sudane Erato: haven’t seen her for awhile
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yoge! namaste!
Yogeswari Padar: namaste!
Claude Desmoulins: Does everyone want to do that?
Yogeswari Padar: good to see you all!
Claude Desmoulins: Greetings
Flyingroc Chung: I could do it, if the students stop pestering me, brb, again
Pelanor Eldrich: I was thinking of 4-18
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t think 4-18 went far enough –hence my new bill
Pelanor Eldrich: Let’s say we pay the Guild for work, does the RA decide how the funds are distributed amongst guild members?
Kendra Bancroft: No
Claude Desmoulins: That requires multiple copies, like Kendra’s repository idea.
Claude Desmoulins: (4-18)
Kendra Bancroft: That’s the Guild’s business
Pelanor Eldrich: good
Claude Desmoulins: Does anyone not want to vote on 4-26?
Kendra Bancroft: we cant tell them how to disburss their own funds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, I second Kendra on that.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of 4-26 as amended?
Pelanor Eldrich: good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For all we know, the Guild treasurer can deposit all the funds on their Ginko account and use slave labour to build the city 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Yes
Pelanor Eldrich: That’s the way I like it.
Kendra Bancroft: Then the Gildemeister would be voted out I would imagine –fairly quickly
Claude Desmoulins: Aye, that is
Kendra Bancroft: So the amndment to be clear is that the Guild may not change properties purchased by the City –I have that right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, Kendra, hehe. What I naturally meant is that the agreements between RA and Guild are as two entities, not a one-on-one relationship, which would violate the whole purpose of *having* a Guild.
Claude Desmoulins: without RA approval.
Kendra Bancroft: not without approval
Pelanor Eldrich: That’s how I always saw it Gywn and Kendra…
Claude Desmoulins: from the RA, since they represent the people who own the building, but it applies only to things the city paid for.
Kendra Bancroft: Will we still be voting on 4-28 regarding the moritorium and the comeptition bids?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next week perhaps?
Claude Desmoulins: Unless you withdraw it it will be onthe agenda at the next meeting.
Kendra Bancroft: Yes next week
Kendra Bancroft: But I am in earnest about the ability of Guild members being able to be chosen for bids
Kendra Bancroft: so that a Gildemeister can’t just lock them out
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe that’s a matter of how the guild functions.
Pelanor Eldrich: I had a Guild right of first refusal on city infrastructure contracts. In my forum posting, the GM makes the bid and does the division of labor and pay amongst artisans.
Claude Desmoulins: It doesn’t have to be autocratic.
Kendra Bancroft: That is how it has been yes
Flyingroc Chung: uh is it too late for me to vote on 4-26? lol
Claude Desmoulins: It isn’t
Flyingroc Chung: then I vote yes.
Kendra Bancroft: But now the RA is giving the Gildemeister a power it didn’t have
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember the amendment on 4-26, FR 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: How?
Flyingroc Chung: yes, I’m aware.
Kendra Bancroft: If we are giving the Guild power to change anything –then the Gildemeister –one person –has the right to change anything unless the Guild votes them out
Kendra Bancroft: You are in essence giving one person the ability to change things as they will
Claude Desmoulins: Only on donated objects on public land.
Kendra Bancroft: and I ask you again -If I was still Gildemeister –would you want ME to have that power?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, yes. Actually, at one point, there should be another petition to the RA to force the guild to adopt a set of procedures that are public…
Kendra Bancroft: That is why I wanted the amendmant –and since it is in there –I will vote aye
Claude Desmoulins: Pel?
Pelanor Eldrich: Ick..keep the guild closed. You can always impeach the GM, no?
Kendra Bancroft: But I think if we do this we also need 4-28
Claude Desmoulins: Next meeting, Kendra.
Kendra Bancroft: The Guildmeister can be voted out by a 2.3 majority of the Guild meisters
Claude Desmoulins: Ergo, if the GM freezes out other artisans, the other masters can remove him/her
Kendra Bancroft: But I would not be able to vote for example –because I sit in the RA
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –it would be real bad business practice for a GM to do that
Claude Desmoulins: Is that the fault of the structure?
Kendra Bancroft: No it’s the strength of it
Claude Desmoulins: Pel, your vote on 4-26?
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m in the RA now/
Pelanor Eldrich: ?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes, you’re replacing Logan.
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Pek isn;t an RA member Claude
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Kendra Bancroft: He did?
Kendra Bancroft: Then I need to be able to replace Eugene and Seldon
Claude Desmoulins: Seldon replaced Eugene.
Kendra Bancroft: ahhh
Kendra Bancroft: Then I need to replace Seldon
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, do you want to explain the reasoning here?
Flyingroc Chung: I think it’s unclear whether seldon’s seat is vacant…
Kendra Bancroft: Cid is next in line according to the election results –but I never see him
Claude Desmoulins: He has made no public statement of resignation.
Kendra Bancroft: He has missed far more than two consecutives
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll vote Aye
Claude Desmoulins: -Seldon
Claude Desmoulins: IS that in the procedures. I thought it was only a proposal.
Kendra Bancroft: It’s not a procedure et –I’m just saying –he is putting the SDF at a distinct disadvantage
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry, i was just reading Dianne’s opinion
Claude Desmoulins: Yes he is, I’d encourage you to seek him out and suggest that he make his intentions regarding the RA seat public.
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll do that
Claude Desmoulins: Next 4-27
Claude Desmoulins: Ra has to approve the deletion and non replacement of a public build.
Claude Desmoulins: discussion?
Kendra Bancroft: This gets a big aye from me
Kendra Bancroft: But we need to define “Build”
Kendra Bancroft: some people confuse Build” with Building
Claude Desmoulins: It says city building.
Pelanor Eldrich: Can I replace the Kirche with a 1m2 wooden cube prim?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Flyingroc Chung: not under 4-26 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I would say “Build” refers to anything built
Kendra Bancroft: streetlights for examples are “builds”
Claude Desmoulins: Arguably any such building deletion and non replacement would constitute a layout change under 4-26
Flyingroc Chung: how about public structures?
Flyingroc Chung: “public structures”
Flyingroc Chung: instead of buildings
Claude Desmoulins: Do we really want the RA voting on the removal of a streetlamp?
Kendra Bancroft: not a streetlamp no –but what if the decision became replace all streetlamps with modern streetlamps
Flyingroc Chung: hm… yeah, building might be the right granularity here
Claude Desmoulins: Then this wouldn’t apply anyway.
Flyingroc Chung: deleting all streetlamps would fall under a change of layout
Flyingroc Chung: deleting all streetlamps would fall under a change of layout
Claude Desmoulins: Replacement isn’t cpvered by 4-27
Claude Desmoulins: *covered
Kendra Bancroft: What if the decision was to dlete the clocktower?
Pelanor Eldrich: layout defined as multiple replicated freestanding structures within the city
Claude Desmoulins: I’d say the tower is a building. The SC could referee that dispute.
Pelanor Eldrich: a tower is a building
Pelanor Eldrich: you could define it using m2 footprint
Kendra Bancroft: I’m fine with 4-27
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or # of prims
Pelanor Eldrich: or volume
Claude Desmoulins: I like the m2 idea
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I also prefer some leeway…
Claude Desmoulins: Or we could leave it as is.
Kendra Bancroft: Because unlike most men –I don’t think sie matters
Kendra Bancroft: size
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Kendra …. hehe
Claude Desmoulins: Further discussion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was just typing the same 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, leave it as it is.
Kendra Bancroft: It’s fine as is
Pelanor Eldrich: Is that a pickel on your haube or are you just glad to see me?
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Kendra Bancroft: I’d say any real debacle is for the SC to consider or mediate between the RA and Guild
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Next/
Claude Desmoulins: 4-25
Flyingroc Chung: uh oh
Kendra Bancroft: uh oh indeed
Claude Desmoulins: Gwyn, is the sc going to nerf this out of the box?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Claude Desmoulins: I have about 20 mionutes so I’m being direct.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we have discussed it briefly
Flyingroc Chung: May I explain my reasoning for this?
Pelanor Eldrich: nerf=vote down?
Claude Desmoulins: yes – veto/annul/ etc.
Flyingroc Chung: First, the RA has the authority to impose term limits, as per article V, Section I
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I guess that Ulrika’s arguments, no matter why she made them, are quite strong in this case (also, the other two SC members had serious doubts about this proposal)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although I personally don’t dislike it, but then again, it’s just one vote in three 😉
Flyingroc Chung: oh, I havent seen ulrika’s arguments
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes FR ? term limits for the *Dean*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are already term limits for the Dean, this would just clarify them as well
Flyingroc Chung: “Officials in the Government are elected for a period of time according to the general principles of democratic rotativity to ensure proper representativity in a changing society, whose duration will be fixed by the RA by passing appropriate laws.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, technically, the Dean falls under that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As does the Guildmaster.
Flyingroc Chung: and so do chairs and professors? no?
Claude Desmoulins: Don’t all government officials?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well… that’s a problem
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine that you’d apply the same reasoning to Guild members
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So you’d only be a member of the Guild for a period of time
Kendra Bancroft: Guild members arent Government Officials
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why not? They can place the guildmaster in power!
Pelanor Eldrich: The Guild is a special case, open to all but only mentions role of GM. What happens in Guildhall stays in Guildhall.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, pelanor.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the SC is different, eh? 😉
Kendra Bancroft: Citizens can place RA members in power
Kendra Bancroft: are they Officials?
Claude Desmoulins: If members of the SC aren’t govt officials why have the RA vote of confidence?
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild is The Fight Club
Pelanor Eldrich: Right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, as said ? I don’t see anything wrong in the *concept* except that it violates the Constitution 😉
Claude Desmoulins: The notion of judicial persons having terms of office is not unheard of.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’d suggest to change the Constitution first 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I would prefer the RA has a vote of No-Confidence? –but I’m mean
Pelanor Eldrich: I was wondering about that…
Claude Desmoulins: To explicitly make SC members government officials?
Flyingroc Chung: So, hm, we need some sort of clarification for V, I then, regarding which officials V, I refers to.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, FR.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That way would be clearer, I think. Because the SC is supposed not to have any “political ties”
Pelanor Eldrich: Chair/Professor is tenured for life without this right?
Kendra Bancroft: which is why they are not elected
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This bill would introduce the concept that in some terms, the RA would be able to vote out a SC member they disliked
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They are, yes, Pelanor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Deliberately so.
Kendra Bancroft: Look I’ll be honest –this bill will be getting a NO vote from me
Flyingroc Chung: Ok, well then I move the RA seeks clarification for V, 1 regarding which officials the RA can set term limits for, and also move to table 4-25 until the SC has made such a clarification.
Kendra Bancroft: Dean should have limits 0–but I think that’s an internal SC matter
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Dean *has* limits
Claude Desmoulins: Fine with that. FR
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me quote from the Constitution…
Kendra Bancroft: I know they do, Gwyn
Kendra Bancroft: I’m just saying my only concern is already covered
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Elections for branches and factions are staggered equally throughout the term and held in the following order: Artisanal branch, Philosophic branch, factions, and Representative branch.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, if the SC *fails* to comply with that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: by NOT electing a new Dean every term
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they should be impeached
Gwyneth Llewelyn: for violating the Constitution 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: But could a dean serve multiple consecutive trerms?
Kendra Bancroft: Then they are in violation of the Constitution and the whole lot should be impeached for transgression
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is not defined, Claude, but that would make sense.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra, right so
Claude Desmoulins: What’s to constitutionallyu prevent them from re-electing the same dean in perpetuity?
Pelanor Eldrich: Did you guys ever opine on block SC impeachments?
Kendra Bancroft: A Gildemeister can serve multiple terms –Lord knows I did
Kendra Bancroft: why can’t a Dean?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, technically, Pelanor, the answer is: nothing prevents that 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: well it says “principles of democratic rotativity” but it also says the RA should set term limits…. it’s all confusing, I really want a statement from the SC.
Pelanor Eldrich: Or block branch impeachments?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well FR
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me try to explain my reasoning
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That clause applies to all Government officials *who have a term*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the RA sets the terms
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Constitution even says that the elections for the elected officials have to be done in a certain order.
Kendra Bancroft: I dont want SC members voted in on populist reasons
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, SC members or Guild members are *not* elected
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same here, Kendra
Claude Desmoulins: But the rotativity clause (that wor;s awkward) means that all the terms are the same as the RA tem, just staggered.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Claude Desmoulins: *word’s
Flyingroc Chung: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the *length* of the term is defined by the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It used to be 4 months, now 6 months
Flyingroc Chung: I see, I think I parsed that sentence wrongly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only ambiguity I agree on is what are “Government officials”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is the Treasurer a Government Official?
Kendra Bancroft: Petty Beurocrat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is the Head of the Chamber of Commerce a Government official?
Kendra Bancroft: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I tend to second Kendra on that.
Pelanor Eldrich: Certainly not
Kendra Bancroft: No CoC head is a Guild appointment –as is Treasurer
Claude Desmoulins: Does term mean for those who are not voted on in some way?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: i.e. my current interpretation is that all Government officials are the ones that get *elected* ? either by the citizens, or by their peers
Claude Desmoulins: *mean anything
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (peers in Gwyn’s parlance: the members of their branch 😉 )
Claude Desmoulins: Bu SC members elect new Sc members, Gwyn. What about that?
Pelanor Eldrich: I was appointed…
Pelanor Eldrich: aha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Claude
Gwyneth Llewelyn: they APPOINT
Kendra Bancroft: CoC head or Trasurer could be termed Guild Officials –but they have no say in Government per se
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And below that, we even have the Utter Bureaucrats ? RA/SC Archivist, etc
Flyingroc Chung: but SC chairs do…
Flyingroc Chung: they hae a say in government
Gwyneth Llewelyn: SC chairs don’t get “elected”
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m in the RA and was appointed….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Dean nominates them 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: well, factions are elected in the RA
Kendra Bancroft: But your seat was elected, Pel
Sudane Erato: I’m sorry folks,,, I now must go
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, you’re just a seat 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: You were selected by the rest of the faction Pel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A seat attachment hehe
Sudane Erato: I’ll see you all soon 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: bye sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you Sudane, take care!
Claude Desmoulins: Bye Sudane
Sudane Erato: bye all 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: ciao, Sudane
Yogeswari Padar: bye sudane
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, my seat was elected and my ass was appointed…got it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yep 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: ciao
Kendra Bancroft: My head was appointed –see it’s very pointed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Kendra!!
Pelanor Eldrich: Having Kendra’s head up your ass looks very painful.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But there are good points on 4-25… for instance:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “If at any time the SC does not have any voting members to nominate a citizen into the SC, the RA may, by a majority vote, nominate and appoint (with a vote of confidence by the Guild) one citizen to be a member of the SC.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would prevent a technical deadlock
Gwyneth Llewelyn: when the SC is impeached in block
Claude Desmoulins: We need an answer to that question.
Flyingroc Chung: or we could pass a bill and see if the Sc vetoes it 😉
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table and talk about stuff.
Flyingroc Chung: ooh stuff. I like that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we might have to, or at least place it on hold until an amendment on what is a “governmental official” is passed
Claude Desmoulins: Maybe fewer provocative actions are better at the moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could do a suggestion, which is that “votes of confidence” would be able to be pased, say, yearly
Flyingroc Chung: yes, I favor tabling it for now, actually.
Pelanor Eldrich: I think official is in the constitution as you say Gwyn
Claude Desmoulins: I could go for that.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m likely to reamain NO on this one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And an SC member without a vote of confidence would not be able to vote in the SC 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But would not be “removed”. Just “dormant”
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s get a sense of where the SC is on this.
Kendra Bancroft: I could go with the NO CONFIDENCE clause
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, that one needs clarification as well (I know, Claude, it’s also on the neverending list of things the SC has to talk about)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As the Constituition stands, SC members don’t serve for “terms” since they’re not elected.
Pelanor Eldrich: what happened on 4-24?
Kendra Bancroft: The problem I find is that soon a suitable amount of SC candidates would dissappear
Claude Desmoulins: Tabled until the SC puts out its moderation guidelines
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, kendra 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: God knows how difficult it was to get 5 members in the SC, and one sadly left 😛
Flyingroc Chung: well, you only need the voting ones
Kendra Bancroft: YOu should make me an SC member
Pelanor Eldrich: Actually, maybe it’s fairly moot. Gywn’s the only one to last more than a year
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You will, as soon as you’re not an RA member hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why? 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean because I’m exceptionalRA Meeting: May 12, 2006
Claude Desmoulins: First….
Claude Desmoulins: 4-31
Claude Desmoulins: Any Discussion?
Kendra Bancroft: I still think it’s a Guild matter
Pelanor Eldrich: but….that not the old constitution vision….
Kendra Bancroft: 4-31 is a no brainer
Kendra Bancroft: I vote aye
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane do we need a cutoff date for claims?
Sudane Erato: well…. yes
Kendra Bancroft: I’d end it with the end of the Parade of Homes
Sudane Erato: but i think its not a big issue
Claude Desmoulins: How about the following amendment,,,
Sudane Erato: sure.. that makes sense
Claude Desmoulins: …claims must be filed with the GM no later than May 31,
Claude Desmoulins: That gives people 2 weeks.
Pelanor Eldrich: I vote Aye
Kendra Bancroft: After that –I’m turning into a month long Renn Faire
Claude Desmoulins: on the bill or amendment?
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m fine with the existing bill.
Pelanor Eldrich: Do we have quorum?
Claude Desmoulins: What about the claim deadline. We need to be able to close the books on this at some point.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Kendra Bancroft: No –we don’t seem to
Claude Desmoulins: You, me , Pel is 3
Kendra Bancroft: Parade of Homes ends on the 31st
Pelanor Eldrich: ok, Aye
Kendra Bancroft: Make the claims end on JUne 15
Sudane Erato: thats fine too
Claude Desmoulins: Why June 15, Not picky, just curious?
Kendra Bancroft: Give people 2 weeks to get their shit together
Sudane Erato: the date is npot important…
Claude Desmoulins: I’m ok w/ June 15.
Pelanor Eldrich: ditto
Sudane Erato: just so there is one
Kendra Bancroft: It’s also a month from now
Claude Desmoulins: OK Amended to set a claim deadline of June 15.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the bill?
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Sudane Erato: yay… ome bill!
Sudane Erato: one
Claude Desmoulins: Now 4-28. I have some things I’d like to look at here.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m amenable to tweaks
Claude Desmoulins: First. How about a longer moratorium (10 or 14 days) w/o a renewal?
Kendra Bancroft: I say 7 days is plenty
Claude Desmoulins: But the renewal can make it 14.
Kendra Bancroft: But I think option for renewal s needed
Claude Desmoulins: Why?
Kendra Bancroft: People out of town
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m scared it’ll be continually renewed forever, thereby freezing the build.
Sudane Erato: does this refer to ANY objects?
Sudane Erato: trees, roads, lampposts?
Claude Desmoulins: What I’d like to avoid is thinking we could have a vote and then having someone trigger the renewal at the last moment.
Kendra Bancroft: good point
Claude Desmoulins: Isn’t there a max of one renewal.
Kendra Bancroft: Let’s make it 10 days –no renewal then
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: Now…
Claude Desmoulins: I have an issue with the RA voting directly on different build proposals.
Kendra Bancroft: How about only if the RA is contracting for the build
Claude Desmoulins: Could the RA ratify or not ratify a Guild decision between proposals, like we did with the sim design process?
Kendra Bancroft: I’m okay with the RA doing a ratify of a Guild decision
Claude Desmoulins: I’d like to apply the whole bill only to paid for items, personally.
Claude Desmoulins: This would do several things.
Claude Desmoulins: 1) It would give an incentive for artisans to seek payment, with payment comes protection.
Pelanor Eldrich: It could even by $L1
Pelanor Eldrich: *be
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: 2) It makes this a clarification of NL 4-20 rather than a rewrite by specifying the procedure for modding city owned builds.
Salzie Sachertorte has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Sure. Pel.
Salzie Sachertorte: hi
Sudane Erato: hi Salzie!
Pelanor Eldrich: hi Salzie!
Claude Desmoulins: If you wanted something previously donated to be covered, introduce a bill to purchase it from the creator.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m okay with both those, Claude –and I’m glad you see the intent of the bill
Claude Desmoulins: Let
Claude Desmoulins: Also with the ratification vote by RA of a guild choice?
Kendra Bancroft: yep
Claude Desmoulins: OK The amendment as it now stands…
Claude Desmoulins: 1) bill only applies to purchased builds 2) If multiple proposals – Guild chooses and RA votes up or down to ratify that choice 3) 10 day moratorium no renewals.
Neualtenburg Stein – Oktoberfest 2004: Neualtenburg Animated Stein
Neualtenburg Stein – Oktoberfest 2004: Commands: drink, help
Claude Desmoulins: Is that right?
Kendra Bancroft: yeas –That’s acceptab;e to me
Kendra Bancroft: It keeps to the intent
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: other discussion on the bill?
Claude Desmoulins: Which build?
Kendra Bancroft: That’s a Guild decision I would think
Claude Desmoulins: Probably.
Kendra Bancroft: perhaps the CoC could afix a historic plaque after a vote by the Guild?
Pelanor Eldrich: Let’s pass it, we can tweak later…
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the bill.
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: My first bill passed!
Kendra Bancroft: woohooo!
Claude Desmoulins: OK The nesxt one is actually 4-32.
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t think I know of 4-32
Pelanor Eldrich: Defence
Kendra Bancroft: oh
Claude Desmoulins: First thing is that Defence of the Realm is no good, we have no monarch 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Get rid of the pre-emptive clause
Claude Desmoulins: Comments on the bill.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: We have a schloss…heh…what the official name of our sim?
Claude Desmoulins: I would have agreed with you until a certain mass deleton. Now I’m not sure.
Claude Desmoulins: If we pull the pre emptive clause…
Claude Desmoulins: …Are you ready for some serious cleanups?
Kendra Bancroft: The mass deletion occured from the Guild –
Pelanor Eldrich: “Democratic City-State? of Neualtenburg”
Pelanor Eldrich: ?
Kendra Bancroft: Socialist Republic of Neualtenburg 😛
Sudane Erato: Are we a democracy?
Kendra Bancroft: We are a Democratic Republic
Pelanor Eldrich: Fascists Neo-
Pelanor Eldrich: Fascist Neo-Bavarian? Oligarchy of Neualtenburg?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It”s turning into that, Pel
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Isn’t the official title Democratic Republic on Neualtenburg?
Claude Desmoulins: *of
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –it is Claude
Pelanor Eldrich: ok, that works, we’re a republic…defence of the republic
Claude Desmoulins: OK, that little problem solved.
Kendra Bancroft: I still say gut the pre-emptive clause
Claude Desmoulins: Suppose someone announces they intend to nuke the sim. Do we let them?
Kendra Bancroft: A smart terrorist wouldnt announce
Claude Desmoulins: Suppose we get a not so smart adversary. Odder things have happened.
Sudane Erato: i think that despite what we pass here…
Claude Desmoulins: I’ll grant you it’s not likely.
Kendra Bancroft: Then make a the threat a crime
Sudane Erato: if someone detects a credible threat to the sim from a griefer
Sudane Erato: they will try to prevent it
Pelanor Eldrich: Does the preamble even matter, the actual bill is after the “———-“?
Claude Desmoulins: So could we alter …
Kendra Bancroft: It just smells awfully Minority Report to me
Sudane Erato: I never saw it
Pelanor Eldrich: Ya know, an SDF member wrote this bill…. 🙂 (Couldn’t help it)
Claude Desmoulins: “if they have reasonable cause…intent on griefing” to “if they threaten to grief”?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: They convict criminals that they believe may committ a crime
Kendra Bancroft: and I will vote No if it stays
Claude Desmoulins: However, the ban is temporary (until the next SC mtg)
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a bad move and a bad message
Claude Desmoulins: Someone mentioned the idea of credible threat. What about that?
Kendra Bancroft: define credible
Sudane Erato: hehe
Claude Desmoulins: I thought that was for the SC to do.
Kendra Bancroft: My point is –either Sudane or I could nuke the City –and Sudane could do even worse
Kendra Bancroft: we are both threats\
Sudane Erato: yes!
Kendra Bancroft: Should someone decide to claim we are
Claude Desmoulins: So, Kendra your position is that it’s impossible to prevent griefing before the fact?
Pelanor Eldrich: I personally have no problem banning any foreigner for a week if we have a possible threat. That’s why they check my passport at the border.
Kendra Bancroft: My point is until someone griefs or themselves threaten to grief –its a moot point
Claude Desmoulins: OK, what about the change I suggested.
Kendra Bancroft: You can’t punish someone because you believe they are a threat
Kendra Bancroft: Make threatening the Republic a crime
Kendra Bancroft: and remove the pre-emptive clause
Pelanor Eldrich: I can’t punish a foreigner anyway…I can keep them out for a week though.
Claude Desmoulins: change it to “if they are griefing or threaten to grief”
Kendra Bancroft: Right, Claude –but it cannot be –they present a threat
Claude Desmoulins: It seems reasonable to exclude someone temporarily if they make a threat.
Claude Desmoulins: Is that what I said?
Kendra Bancroft: No –just being clear
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s like getting “randomly searched” at the airport.
Kendra Bancroft: or the Subway
Claude Desmoulins: How would you reword it, then?
Kendra Bancroft: exactly as I said –if they grief or make a spoken threat to grief
Pelanor Eldrich: Or have a history of griefing?
Kendra Bancroft: No
Claude Desmoulins: How about recorded instead of spoken (covers email, IM, forums, etc.)
Kendra Bancroft: fine –I meant spoken in the boadest sense
Kendra Bancroft: broadest
Pelanor Eldrich: How do we keep out Plasticus Duckus if he doesn’t specfically threaten our sim?
Claude Desmoulins: Iffy, shall we ban eveyone who has ever griefed anywhere? By whose definition?
Kendra Bancroft: No, Pel
Kendra Bancroft: we can’t presume guilt
Claude Desmoulins: I’m fine with make a recorded threat to grief.
Claude Desmoulins: Pel?
Pelanor Eldrich: Sure ok, something’s better than nothing…I like it a little more proactive, but it’s the guildmaster who should weigh in as she has to clean up the mess… 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: What about PD?, for example.
Claude Desmoulins: I guess if we felt threatened by him he’d already be banned. He’s not.
Kendra Bancroft: Look iof PD made even one simple threat to N’burg –I’d ban with no question
Pelanor Eldrich: That’s it for me…If an avatar has broken LL ToS or been a real PITA, do we automatically open wide our doors and say, “buy a home”?
Claude Desmoulins: Not by the second part of the bill.
Kendra Bancroft: But its a fine line between banning him –or banning Kevn for example for just being silly
Claude Desmoulins: SC may deny citizenship to those whom they believe will not uphold the const.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m silly too…
Salzie Sachertorte: I think you have to be recommended by a citizen or two to buy land
Claude Desmoulins: That’s been deprecated.
Pelanor Eldrich: Right..ok on citizenship….I worry about the PD case.
Claude Desmoulins: The most current constitution is on the wiki,
Kendra Bancroft: Why did the SC let Aliasi get away with thumbing her nose at the Government for 2 months?
Claude Desmoulins: So the citizenship restiction could keep PD from buying a house.
Salzie Sachertorte: ah, well enforce it
Claude Desmoulins: Don’t know. Ask them.
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Salzie Sachertorte: PD is?
Kendra Bancroft: Plastic Duck –a known griefer from w-hat
Pelanor Eldrich: Aliasi broke no laws.
Salzie Sachertorte: ah – nice to meet you Kendra btw
Kendra Bancroft: I beg to differ
Kendra Bancroft: and you, Salzie –love your gypsy wagon
Pelanor Eldrich: Bring it to the SC. BTW how do I wear the lederhosen?
Kendra Bancroft: use talcum powder
Pelanor Eldrich: Thanks!
Salzie Sachertorte: I love your wagon, might buy one
Kendra Bancroft: Just drag the items to your avaar, pel
Pelanor Eldrich: Thx…
Claude Desmoulins: I’m actually with Kendra here. Let’s not ban without specific cause.
Kendra Bancroft: there should be two different shirts
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the “recorded threat amendment”…
Pelanor Eldrich: Yeah…ok, we can make it more facist later… 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: 😛
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Other discussion on the bill?
Kendra Bancroft: I want my walls back
Pelanor Eldrich: Get GM opinion on defence…she has to clean up the grief if we underscreen.
Kendra Bancroft: Dianne’s have a nasty alpha channel flashing going on
Claude Desmoulins: That’s Guild.
Pelanor Eldrich: We should have a guild meeting soon.
Pelanor Eldrich: Much to discuss.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m not sure Sudane is going to return.
Salzie Sachertorte: brb
Kendra Bancroft: Call a meeting, pel –any Guild member can call a meeting
Pelanor Eldrich: I’ll IM her or email her about that…yeah, ok…BTW you can too.
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion on the bill as amended?
Pelanor Eldrich: nope
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor?
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK. I had really hoped to have Sudane here for the discussion of 4-30.
Kendra Bancroft: should we table it?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Kendra Bancroft: To me it’s the most important one of the night
Pelanor Eldrich: I have to reread all the estate/mgr stuff…
Claude Desmoulins: Also we want to look at Salzie’s draft job description.
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t want it given short shrift
Claude Desmoulins: We may want to do a comprehensive solution.
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s the biggest SL problem to truly implementing a democratic gov’t in SL.
Claude Desmoulins: Neither your bill or Salzie’s description addresses two big issues.
Claude Desmoulins: 1) What happens if the owner is incapacitated in RL?
Kendra Bancroft: technically it could all become a moot point when the tools arrive
Claude Desmoulins: 2) What happens if the owner absconds with the sim or some such thing?
Pelanor Eldrich: We need something in place until that happens with havoc 8
Claude Desmoulins: We can only hope it will be moot.
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: which is why I want the bill implemented
Claude Desmoulins: And we don’t know when the tools will arrive.
Kendra Bancroft: and the only change Im in favor of is having it staete that it’s owner only –and the Guild can pick the managers and owner
Pelanor Eldrich: *if*, it could be a Godot.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table and ask Sudane to weigh in officially.
Claude Desmoulins: I was being optimistic.
Kendra Bancroft: Isnt that a conflict of interest?
Claude Desmoulins: Also we then will have time to look at the job desc.
Claude Desmoulins: How so?
Pelanor Eldrich: She’s not voting on it, just providing an opinion.
Claude Desmoulins: Yes. How would this actually work if it passed sort of thing/
Claude Desmoulins: She at least deserves input.
Kendra Bancroft: I’d say if it passed it would be implemented during the next election cycle
Claude Desmoulins: Let
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table.
Claude Desmoulins: That would certainly help the implementation issues.
Pelanor Eldrich: This is the biggest issue around until the tools come out. It’s the *big* piece the consitution didn’t address.
Claude Desmoulins: Whatever we do, let’s make sure we consider it carefully and do it right.
Kendra Bancroft: The constitution was written for a maingrid sim
Pelanor Eldrich: That explains it.
Claude Desmoulins: Now the procedure change. PLEASE read the notes.
Kendra Bancroft: Well that;s your call Leader –but I have no problems with it
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m ok with it.
Kendra Bancroft: really though as LRA it’s your call, Claude
Claude Desmoulins: I just want us to have the option if we need it.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor..
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Kendra Bancroft: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Last thing.
Kendra Bancroft: That’s truly scary, pel
chodie Nosferatu: hi
Claude Desmoulins: Artisan protection.
Pelanor Eldrich: That’s why we need the closed session… 🙂
chodie Nosferatu: is this a public meeting?
Claude Desmoulins: Chodie. Non citizens can’t speak but may observe.
chodie Nosferatu: ok n/p
Claude Desmoulins: I can’t vote for this as is.
Kendra Bancroft: what would you change, Claude?
Pelanor Eldrich: ditto
Claude Desmoulins: If it’s meant to create local IP law…
Kendra Bancroft: Of course it’s meant to create local IP law –how is that a problem though?
Claude Desmoulins: It needs to be much more detailed. I have a problem that there’s no fair use , I have a problem that cimilarity of function can alone be cause for violation.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like to see IP handled using the LL ToS and specfic LL guidelines in the forum re: texture theft.
Claude Desmoulins: *similarity.
Kendra Bancroft: I have no problem with adding a Fair Use clause
Claude Desmoulins: I’m concerned about how the documentation requirements are handled.
Kendra Bancroft: how so?
Kendra Bancroft: I think it’s fairly obvious when something is ripped off
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like the only local IP law to be related to city infrastructure protection…
Kendra Bancroft: No –that fails to protect our merchants
Claude Desmoulins: What constitute appropriate documentation of permission? Must there be a notarized document, is the fact that something is set copy enough?
Kendra Bancroft: what if someone ripped off my scooter?
Pelanor Eldrich: Just redendency, everything else, do it the LL way.
Pelanor Eldrich: How can they rip off your scooter?
Pelanor Eldrich: BTW, I love it.
Kendra Bancroft: reverse engineer it
Kendra Bancroft: copy it prim for prim
Claude Desmoulins: I’m totally not ready to ban reverse engineering. Prim for prim copy is different.
Pelanor Eldrich: Is that fair use?
Kendra Bancroft: something like a different take on a Vespa isn’t an issue –but what if they made one identical to mine?
Pelanor Eldrich: Did you invent “the vespa”?
Pelanor Eldrich: Your look, yes…
Kendra Bancroft: No –I invented the Neuspa
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: If it were identical you’d have something, but I read your bill as being much broader than that.
Kendra Bancroft: what if someone screeshot my nutcracker head –and used it?
Claude Desmoulins: Also. The penalty question of penalty. If you just want cease and desist, that’s in line with existing RL notions of a takedown notice.
Kendra Bancroft: cease and desist is all I’m asking for
Claude Desmoulins: If you want more than that…
Kendra Bancroft: not a criminal punishment
Pelanor Eldrich: What do you do if they screenshot and setup shop outside of town? Nothing can be done if they are non-citizens. We de facto have to go with LL ToS.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m talking IN our Sim
Kendra Bancroft: merchant of N’burg to merchant of N’burg
Claude Desmoulins: Then that needs to be in the bill specifically. This has enough things obsure about it that I really think it would behoove you to rewrite and resubmit.
Claude Desmoulins: “cease and desist that is”
Kendra Bancroft: Fine –I’ll tweak and re submit
Pelanor Eldrich: Like me opening up “Eldrich Neuspa” in NB… ok…
Claude Desmoulins: Also, we’d need the SC to create procedures for ruling if a takedown notice were contested.
Kendra Bancroft: Not the SC
Pelanor Eldrich: BTW, what’s your take on my clothes, they are the flag and map…am I ok or am in violation a) of LL law b)of this bill?
Kendra Bancroft: the Guild would shut down their shop until they comply
Claude Desmoulins: What if someone contested a takedown notice?
Claude Desmoulins: Argued that it wasn’t a violation.
Claude Desmoulins: Surely the court system would adjudicate that/
Kendra Bancroft: Your making clothing out of the flag is not an infrindgment
Kendra Bancroft: someone else maiking the same clothes as you –is
Pelanor Eldrich: what about the map? Sudane wasn’t so sure.
Kendra Bancroft: The map?
Pelanor Eldrich: pants
Kendra Bancroft: No –you tweaked it’s use to ake something new
Kendra Bancroft: make
Kendra Bancroft: That’s Fair Use
Kendra Bancroft: and that’s okay by me
Claude Desmoulins: What about the question of a contested takedown notice? I do appreciate that this seems to be intended to be more narrow than I originally read it to be.
Kendra Bancroft: They are , however, aesthetically ugly, Pel
Kendra Bancroft: Just sayin’
Pelanor Eldrich: sez u
Pelanor Eldrich: 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Still waiting for my suit, madame tailor.
Kendra Bancroft: sez the woman with a nutcracker head
Kendra Bancroft: workin’ on it
Pelanor Eldrich: back to biz
Claude Desmoulins: What about the contested takedown notice?
Kendra Bancroft: That could be mediated by the Guild
Pelanor Eldrich: Is that not an SC matter
Pelanor Eldrich: ?
Kendra Bancroft: Nope
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a Guild matter
Pelanor Eldrich: IP infringement is a guild matter? Whoa!
Kendra Bancroft: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Why not, infringement is a violation of law under this.
Kendra Bancroft: But the Guild decides if there was a violation
Pelanor Eldrich: So the merchants would argue in front of the GM?
Kendra Bancroft: The SC can mete out the punishment
Claude Desmoulins: With what kind of due process?
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t think the SC is qualified to judge
Pelanor Eldrich: So the GM judges, by whatever mech, and the SC sentences…. interesting.
Kendra Bancroft: yes
Claude Desmoulins: Is a fellow artisan really sufficiently impartial?
Kendra Bancroft: Call it deferring to expertise
Claude Desmoulins: Or will there be a desire to protect the “club”
Claude Desmoulins: Hypothetically.
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s the Guild…fight club meets the freemasons…bribe the grand poo-bah.
Kendra Bancroft: Then perhpas it should be a SC matter with Guild members serving as witnesses
Claude Desmoulins: Please put all these details in the bill, I would be better with that.
Kendra Bancroft: Okie doke
Claude Desmoulins: SC has , hopefully less of a vested interest.
Pelanor Eldrich: There’s nothing impartial about a GM decision.
Kendra Bancroft: Not a GM decision –a vote of all Meisters
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table and let Kendra tweak.
Pelanor Eldrich: Could be a political popularity contest.
Kendra Bancroft: So could anything
Claude Desmoulins: Whatever way you want it, just spell it out, it’s your bill 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: Not the SC
Kendra Bancroft: Why not?
Kendra Bancroft: There are SC members in the Guild
Kendra Bancroft: everybody is in the Guild –almost anyways
Pelanor Eldrich: They take an oath of impartiality. It’s the meisters, who will split into political factions for and against a GM
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s table and debate a more detailed bill next time.
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t have much faith in their impartiality at the mo’
Claude Desmoulins: We’ve done the whole agenda.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, understand that if I’m “Pro Kendra” for GM, I’ll side with the master who holds my view, and so will the others.
Kendra Bancroft: Now it’s Altenbrau time
Pelanor Eldrich: We got a lot done.
Claude Desmoulins: Let us adjourn.
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Kendra Bancroft: Nitey nite!
Pelanor Eldrich: Nice seeing ya Kendra..
Kendra Bancroft: u 2
Pelanor Eldrich: Any world on Seldon?
The meeting closed at 20:56 Linden time.RA Meeting: June 15, 2006
Those present:
Claude Desmoulins is in the chair.
Pelanor Eldrich has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: Please touch both boxes.
Flyingroc Chung has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: If you haven’t
Salzie Sachertorte has indicated consent to be recorded.
Claude Desmoulins: I call the meeting to order.
Claude Desmoulins: First item:
Claude Desmoulins: Fr is your election system ready to roll?
Pelanor Eldrich: FRC, great job on the vote machine. Does it hook to a backend DB?
Salzie Sachertorte: FC – all i cna see of you is your hat!
Flyingroc Chung: sry, mom’s on IM, so am sorta here and not ehre
Claude Desmoulins: So is the election system good to go?
Flyingroc Chung: election system works
Salzie Sachertorte: hmm,I cant see FRC or Pel
Claude Desmoulins: it’s already budgeted for, I believe.
Flyingroc Chung: salzie, change grup titles
Claude Desmoulins: Contact Sudane about payment.
Claude Desmoulins: This makes the first item unnecessary.
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s tab;e
Claude Desmoulins: Next 4-42
Claude Desmoulins: Consider this a supplemental appropriation.
Claude Desmoulins: The idea was to have a lot of $L1 contracts so the city would clearly own the rights to new builds/rebuilds
Flyingroc Chung: ah
Pelanor Eldrich: wait, so is the voting system ready or no?
Claude Desmoulins: There wasn’t money budgeted for this.
Claude Desmoulins: hence…
Pelanor Eldrich: you mean to pay FRC for development?
Flyingroc Chung: sorry, yes, voting system is ready, pending a $L1,000,000 fee per elections held 😉
Claude Desmoulins: No.
Salzie Sachertorte: heee
Claude Desmoulins: Election system is in the budget, I think.
Pelanor Eldrich: what just got tabled
Pelanor Eldrich: ?
Claude Desmoulins: A resolution calling on the Guild to get into gear on the election system
Claude Desmoulins: brb
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, cuz it’s a fait accompli (done). so it’s not required, got it. Maybe we should just strike it.
Salzie Sachertorte: Pel?
Pelanor Eldrich: Yep?
Salzie Sachertorte: Where are you?
Salzie Sachertorte: I can’t see you
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m in the room, maybe it’s update weirdness.
Flyingroc Chung: actually diderot joked that he’d pay me a month’s rent if I finished the voting system 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: back
Flyingroc Chung: salzie, cahnge your active group.
Salzie Sachertorte: I did
Pelanor Eldrich: Shoulda got that notarized FRC, LOL!
Claude Desmoulins: We can just let NR 4-1 die on the table.
Pelanor Eldrich: Stick a fork in it, it’s done….ok suivant/next…
Claude Desmoulins: Discussion on NB 4-22?
Claude Desmoulins: 4-42 sorry
Pelanor Eldrich: Sure, finances are ok so I back this.
Flyingroc Chung: I was wondering why it was $500, which seemed like a small amount
Flyingroc Chung: but if it were for $1 contracts…
Claude Desmoulins: right,
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s chimp change, so no prob.
Claude Desmoulins: I thought $500 would give a little bit of flex if someone demanded market rate for an object.
Salzie Sachertorte: i believe the $L1 payemnt was to avoid past problems
Pelanor Eldrich: We can up it later if need be.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of 4-42?
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Claude Desmoulins: Next
Claude Desmoulins: 4-41
Claude Desmoulins: Finance committee
Flyingroc Chung: this is simply an advisory committee?
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Flyingroc Chung: they dont get to do any administrative work?
Claude Desmoulins: Nope
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes, it was going to be me and Sudane and Lee, but Lee isn’t around much, so FRC are you interested/
Pelanor Eldrich: ?
Claude Desmoulins: This is so Sudane can get more input on the finance decisions.
Flyingroc Chung: I’m probably overcomitted already on nburg stuff, lol
Salzie Sachertorte: She
Salzie Sachertorte: She’s been worried with the $L fluctuations
Flyingroc Chung: ah
Pelanor Eldrich: It’s her CC on the line
Salzie Sachertorte: and with kendra leaving, but that is no loner a problem
Salzie Sachertorte: Jon Seatlle bought Alaisi’s land
Claude Desmoulins: We can worry about nominating/appointing people at the next regular meeting.
Flyingroc Chung: oh, most of the land has been bought, then?
Pelanor Eldrich: Ali is still a citizen,no?
Salzie Sachertorte: only one small lot left outside the walls, and 10 inside – not counting hte market
Claude Desmoulins: Everything in the valley except the plot south of Aliasi’s new place.
Claude Desmoulins: is sold
Pelanor Eldrich: You know, maybe we should roll call who’s new and who’s out as citizens at the start of an RA meeting
Salzie Sachertorte: Alais is still in
Flyingroc Chung: uh
Claude Desmoulins: yes?
Flyingroc Chung: there’s a list that’s pretty updated.
Pelanor Eldrich: k
Salzie Sachertorte: and we have 3 new micro plot peole
Pelanor Eldrich: Anyway, I back the formation of the committee.
Claude Desmoulins: Let poor Sudane keep track of it. 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any other discussion?
Pelanor Eldrich: no
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of 4-41?
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Now 4-40
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we bring eminent domain to the city?
Pelanor Eldrich: I guess this is the meaty bill this time around… :0
Flyingroc Chung: yup
Flyingroc Chung: I’m not sure I like it.
Claude Desmoulins: I’m not sure we need it although we may.
Flyingroc Chung: I mean… presumably there is still eminent domain in that the RA can pass a bill for every specific case that we need to…
Claude Desmoulins: One of my issues is that not all land is equal.
Pelanor Eldrich: Wasn’t there an amendment for moving costs? One thing that’s lost is that location changes and it’s possbile that a same dimensioned parcel elsewhere simply isn’t available…thereby requiring totally new builds.
Claude Desmoulins: I have no problem forcing someone to swap quads of prim land for example.
Claude Desmoulins: Once there’s a build on something it’s messier.
Pelanor Eldrich: Right, we’ll with 2/3 RA majority, this is going to be for major stuff only.
Pelanor Eldrich: We’re not going to just arbitrarily start issuing these edicts, we’ll get killed in the next election.
Claude Desmoulins: There was also a proposal in the forums to require a land swap if such were possible before this triggered.
Pelanor Eldrich: I think this is for national security, national emergency or *big ass* projects only.
Claude Desmoulins: Brian indicated in the forums that he considered Diderot’s moving compensation amendment a friendly.
Pelanor Eldrich: I live in CT, we don’t want a CT eminient domain scenario in NB
Salzie Sachertorte: / me chuckles
Claude Desmoulins: I thought you were Canadian.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m dual, left Montreal at 25, lived in the states for 7 yrs now.
Flyingroc Chung: I’d be a lot more comfortable if we could delay this bill till after the next elections, or at least til when SDF gets its act together.
Claude Desmoulins: If that’s what you want, we won’t pass anything without you 🙂
Pelanor Eldrich: 5 years in Bay Area (San Mateo, Palo Alto, Burlingame and Redwood City)
Claude Desmoulins: Although all this does is set up a mechanism.
Pelanor Eldrich: Now marooned in New Haven. :*
Flyingroc Chung: I dunno, seems to me there needs to be even mroe safegurads against abuse.
Claude Desmoulins: It could be tweaked by requiring a land swap option if m2 are available.
Salzie Sachertorte: well, in Rl in Wisconsin, you get paid 120% of the appraised value
Claude Desmoulins: It probably wouldn’t be a bad thing to write it more narrowly.
Salzie Sachertorte: and you can fight he appriasil in court
Flyingroc Chung: well actually, 2/3rds of the RA + guild might be strong enough
Claude Desmoulins: Althout it takes fewer votes to pass this than to actually seize any property.
Claude Desmoulins: I would have no problem with GM consent being required,
Pelanor Eldrich: Yes, I think it’s pretty strong and would only be used in extreme cases. I don’t want to give Prok anymore “NB doesn’t recognize private land” arguement legitimacy.
Claude Desmoulins: It raises a bigger question of how we’ll handle the city redesign.
Claude Desmoulins: Sudane has proposed a lot of lot shifting.
Claude Desmoulins: Shall we table?
Salzie Sachertorte: yes, but she has in mind there are still 10 lots
Flyingroc Chung: I’d like to
Pelanor Eldrich: What is the final plan on that, I can’t figure it out from the forums, is it her latest map illustrated thread?
Claude Desmoulins: OK
Salzie Sachertorte: she’s open to comments
Claude Desmoulins: Let’s take procedure change 2 first.
Claude Desmoulins: This formalizes how we actually do things.
Claude Desmoulins: Any single member can request a seven day vote on something,
Claude Desmoulins: If everyone agrees we can vote in world.
Pelanor Eldrich: ok, I’m for it. I’m for 4-40 too.
Claude Desmoulins: We’re tabling 4-40 at FR’s request.
Pelanor Eldrich: k
Flyingroc Chung: wait… I’m nt sure I understand the wording here…
Flyingroc Chung: Otherwise, or if one of the members not present has made a public request to do so prior to the meeting
Claude Desmoulins: The way the procedures read now it seems that everything goes to seven day.
Claude Desmoulins: This says that if 1) No absent member has requested ahead of time that something be done 7 say and
Claude Desmoulins: 2) No member at the in world meeting wants to go seven day
Claude Desmoulins: Then votes can occur in world.
Claude Desmoulins: You may wantto look at the current procedure document for context.
Flyingroc Chung: ah ok….
Flyingroc Chung: yeah I was just having a bit of difficulty parsing the sentence 🙂
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion?
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m good, I figure both are just formalizing existing practice.
Flyingroc Chung: We are only formalizing what we are doing now, seems to be ok.
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of procedure change 2?
Claude Desmoulins: ayr
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: aye- arghh something like that.
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: #1 is trickier
Pelanor Eldrich: arrr matey…ever seen the Captain’s log? Aaarrrr…
Claude Desmoulins: We want to clarify what closed session can mean– members only, members + civil service , citizens only, somethinge else?
Pelanor Eldrich: hopes the voters don’t review the RA transcipts. 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: right now we can go to closed session for legal or personnel matters, right?
Claude Desmoulins: Right this doesn’t change that.
Claude Desmoulins: The name change procedure bill requires a closed session to choose names.
Flyingroc Chung: ah, only define what it means to be a closed session? or expand the scope of where we can go into closed session?
Claude Desmoulins: This is about deciding who stays and who doesn’t when a closed session occurs.
Claude Desmoulins: The former.
Claude Desmoulins: Two ways to do this:
Claude Desmoulins: 1) some entity (LRA, RA via votes, etc) decides who stays/doesn’t
Claude Desmoulins: I don’t like that because we’ll spend hours debating who to kick out/ not kick out,
Claude Desmoulins: Option 2)
Claude Desmoulins: Create two or three classes of closed session. From which the RA can choose when they vote to enter one.
Flyingroc Chung: how about 3 classes:
Flyingroc Chung: 1.) only RA
Flyingroc Chung: 2.) only RA + citizens
Flyingroc Chung: and 3.) RA + whoever the LRA allows
Claude Desmoulins: Thoughts?
Claude Desmoulins: By only RA you mean only members?
Pelanor Eldrich: We should use skyboxes, I’m not sure how private these closed sessions really are.
Claude Desmoulins: We haven’t had one yet.
Pelanor Eldrich: last time,no?
Claude Desmoulins: No.
Pelanor Eldrich: k
Claude Desmoulins: Actually there’s no constitutional requirement to publish a transcript.
Pelanor Eldrich: I’d like the SC to have a sealed transcript, no?
Flyingroc Chung: only a journal
Claude Desmoulins: Right FR.
Pelanor Eldrich: Ok, journal, then we can talk more freely
Claude Desmoulins: We probably do need to nail this down on closed sessions before Saturday.
Claude Desmoulins: Since we have to have one to pick names.
Pelanor Eldrich: 3 classes, aye
Claude Desmoulins: Members only
Claude Desmoulins: Citizens Only
Claude Desmoulins: Members + LRA invitees?
Claude Desmoulins: Do we really need the third one?
Flyingroc Chung: actually, now that I think about it, we need one for citizens + inviteed
Pelanor Eldrich: Non citizens…
Claude Desmoulins: Salzie, do you have thought on this?
Salzie Sachertorte: Well, its up to you
Claude Desmoulins: So do you want to change 3 to citizens + LRA invitees?
Salzie Sachertorte: in Rl, senior staff is included, as they need to carry out the policy
Flyingroc Chung: no have 4 categories, lol
Claude Desmoulins: How would we define senior staff?
Salzie Sachertorte: I think it woudl be wise publish journals of decisions
Salzie Sachertorte: but have transcript s available for citizens who ask
Claude Desmoulins: That will still happen unless the secrecy provision is separately invoked (Journals)
Claude Desmoulins: I think a closed session means no transcript per current procedures.
Claude Desmoulins: So what would the 4 categories be?
Flyingroc Chung: ok
Flyingroc Chung: RA only
Flyingroc Chung: RA + citizens
Flyingroc Chung: RA + LRA invitees
Flyingroc Chung: Citizens + invitees
Claude Desmoulins: Do we want a senior staff provision?
Flyingroc Chung: my thought is that sometimes we might want to invite a few non-citizens to give expert opinion, or something
Salzie Sachertorte: I think invtiees would cover it
Claude Desmoulins: True
Salzie Sachertorte: you could invie senior staff. or the Guild or the SC
Claude Desmoulins: Any discussion on FR’s amendment?
Pelanor Eldrich: I’m ok with it
Claude Desmoulins: All in favor of the amendment?
Claude Desmoulins: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Pelanor Eldrich: Arrrrrr
Claude Desmoulins: Further discussion on the whole thing?
Flyingroc Chung: none here
Pelanor Eldrich: *bonk* Pelanor rubber stamps.
Claude Desmoulins: Al in favor of this procedure change?
Claude Desmoulins: *all
Flyingroc Chung: aye
Claude Desmoulins: Aye
Pelanor Eldrich: aye
Claude Desmoulins: OK.
Claude Desmoulins: we’re done
Flyingroc Chung: record time
The meeting closed at 20:44 Linden time.
Pendari: before the meeting begins.. if Sudane accepts.. I would like to make a motion that Sudane act as LRA for this first meeting. All RA say yay or nay. =) : working on budget : : color=#777777 Gwyneth Llewelyn: A. The MoCA? Sudane Erato: hehe Eugene Pomeray: we cul d have benches around the city Eugene Pomeray: it would be inexpensive Satchmo Prototype: Eugene lets move beautification to D. Other builds Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Sudane Erato: well, I propose that the other buildings have proposals brought to us Eugene Pomeray: ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that sounds also a good idea 😉 Pendari: I thought the propsal’s already existed? Sudane Erato: in the form proposed by the Procedures Sudane Erato: do they? Pendari: just a matter of us deciding how much we want to pay for them Kendra Bancroft: If the RA submits to the Guild a request for needed buildings –I could work up an estimate for consideration Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, if they do… where are they? Kendra Bancroft: and a timeline Satchmo Prototype: Kendra has work started on the MoCA already howerver? Pendari: ok.. nm.. haha.. I know the builds are being worked on.. but that is not the same :-p Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, it’s been stopped. Kendra Bancroft: I stopped work on MOCA Kendra Bancroft: I’m still technically on strike Sudane Erato: ahhh Pendari: Kendra stated: Kendra Bancroft: If the RA submits to the Guild a request for needed buildings –I could work up an estimate for consideration Kendra Bancroft: I’ve been building “Isenland” a city in Takalo Satchmo Prototype: but you don’t want us to come to you with requirements for that? Sudane Erato: I feel the issue of public vs private ownership must be discussed Pendari: I think that is a good idea Pendari: err, what Kendra suggested Sudane Erato: proir to solicitimng any Build proposals Pendari: gah.. my responses won’t make sense if I don’t post faster Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I think it’s time we work on that, Sudane. If not, we can ask the people who suggested all the builds to put their proposals, and submit them first to Kendra for budgeting, and later to the RA for voting…. Kendra Bancroft: Even private builds need Guild approval, Sudane –if they are in the walls of the city Pendari: What does the RA think of this suggestion? Pendari: Kendra Bancroft: If the RA submits to the Guild a request for needed buildings –I could work up an estimate for consideration Kendra Bancroft: there are frankly many builds already, I as Gildemeister dissapprove of Sudane Erato: well, kendra…. not really true Pendari: would that qualify as the guild being able to create a proposal for us? Gwyneth Llewelyn: It sounds good, Pendari, but, as Sudane pointed out, we should work the “model” of submission. Kendra Bancroft: No, Sudane –very true Sudane Erato: hmmmm Kendra Bancroft: it’s in the Constitution Sudane Erato: private land in the city… Pendari: right.. but we moved that to the OTHER RA PROPOSALS section of todays agenda.. I thought this meeting today was more informal Kendra Bancroft: private land must still meet the covenant –no? Sudane Erato: the constitution was written before the current land ownershiop arrangements Sudane Erato: yes! it must meet the covenants Sudane Erato: but they do not include the guild approving all builds Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe that’s no real excuse, Sudane 🙂 I mean the US Constitution was written before there was an Internet, and it handles the Internet nicely 😉 Sudane Erato: on private land Kendra Bancroft: and which branch of government, according to the constitution, jusges whether or not a build meets the covenant? Sudane Erato: thats a good question Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I mean is that the Guild has the right to judge the builds in the City… Pendari: I go by the Constitution, if there is something other than that because of the Land Deed stuff, it seriously needs to be brought forth Sudane Erato: it is a concern Gwyneth Llewelyn: It just works as the authority for city planning, whatever that is called Gwyneth Llewelyn: It = the Guild Pendari: sorry, I don’t mean that to be harsh.. I just want to be informed so I can make true information and contributions =) Kendra Bancroft: The I will just hand out guild badges for display on stores that meet Guild approval –they may choose whether or not to display them Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with you, Pen. ~~:Pendari: Well, the guild to me is our protection that builds inside the city will conform to our policy standardsGwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, that’s an interesting idea, Kendra 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: exactly, Pendari Sudane Erato: if the guild will police the covenant standrads Kendra Bancroft: so if a build isn’t Guild approved –at least it’s aesthetics won’t be judged as Guild work Pendari: even private land inside the city (and by the way how is that possible??) should to me fall under the guild policies for theme Sudane Erato: then it seems to me that the guild will need to show its standrads… who it will judge Kendra Bancroft: exactly, Sudane Sudane Erato: how it will judge, sorry Garnet Psaltery: I agree with covenant standards of cours e- I’d find it helpful to know which are good examples Sudane Erato: remember, this is private land we are talking about Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pendari, there *is* private land in the city already! Kendra Bancroft: I don’t want poor builds to reflect on the Guild Sudane Erato: the GUILD was conceived as an entity to create public property Pendari: yes Gwyneth.. but I have no idea how that is possible.. hehe.. I don’t know how land gets to be private I mean =) Kendra Bancroft: It’s voluntary –like the Comic’s Code Sudane Erato: hehe… you buy it Pen Gwyneth Llewelyn: I meant the houses for now… they’re private, but the façades are Guild-approved and cannot be changed. Pendari: how is it different than the Deed? Sudane Erato: I don’t agree with that Gwyn Gwyneth Llewelyn: That *is* the Deed 🙂 Pendari: ok.. so then I have private land because I hold two deeds? Sudane Erato: not that the facades are Guild approved Sudane Erato: yes Pen Gwyneth Llewelyn: They are not? Gwyneth Llewelyn: But they should be 😉 Sudane Erato: not in the covenants Pendari: I read that the restrictions on builds inside the city are more strict due to keeping the theme Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Sudane Erato: ahhhh Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes. Sudane Erato: exactly Satchmo Prototype: Kendra, I like the idea of having a guild logo on things the guild makes Satchmo Prototype: and it’s not hard for someone to build there own strcuture and work with the guild Pendari: well who else besides the guild would be responsible for deciding what is and is not approvable? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I see. So the issue is only who “interprets” what the “theme” is? Satchmo Prototype: and have teh help and approval of a meister Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pendari – my point exactly. Sudane Erato: Tes, that makes sense.. Kendra Bancroft: there –they can just display them in their stores Sudane Erato: but the issue of standrads then becomes very important Pendari: I would not argue otherwise =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: It does. Garnet Psaltery: is this badeg available as a single-sided item as well? Garnet Psaltery: Hello Dianne Dianne Mechanique: hello all 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: there’s one on the floor Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hiya Dianne 🙂 Pendari: my other worry would be.. if people can just go outside the guild.. how would we budget.. because then we would have artists in direct competition with the guild Garnet Psaltery: kendra, is this necessarily box-shaped? Pendari: hey Dianne =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pfft Kendra, you missed the N in “Neualtenmburg” 😛 Pendari: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops and I put an extra Mcolor=#777777color=#777777 Eugene Pomeray: hello dianne L( Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Sudane Erato: hehe Pendari: haha Kendra Bancroft: Hiya, Dianne Dianne Mechanique: waht are we talking about? Eugene Pomeray: brb, need to relog Dianne Mechanique: box? Kendra Bancroft: No –I’m just lazy –it would be flat like a decal Satchmo Prototype: private property Garnet Psaltery: oh I see :o) Garnet Psaltery: it looks lovely Satchmo Prototype: I like it as well Garnet Pendari: ok.. what about asking the Guild Meister for a list of standards. And we could take that proposal into the RA and discuss making it a bill? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Private property, and the role Satchmo Prototype: heh can we have some music at the guild meeting 🙂 Sudane Erato: recorder started Pendari Lorentz: welcome fellow RA members =) Sudane Erato: 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you 🙂 Satchmo Prototype: 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have left out one item from the biiig agenda… Pendari Lorentz: Since the vote was unanimous to accept the proposed RA procedures for Meetings, I have included a copy in the Agenda for review if needed Pendari Lorentz: what’s that Gwyneth? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which was our entry to the contest for the “german WA”. or did I miss that? Sudane Erato: oh! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I forget what the deadline for that is. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps it’s already too late 😛 Pendari Lorentz: ahh.. hmm.. yes.. lets put that with the other Contest item as well Sudane Erato: i don’t know Pendari Lorentz: The Guild has been working on the German Bid Gwyneth Llewelyn: (checking 🙂 ) Pendari Lorentz: but I’m not certain about it either Sudane Erato: thats great! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah forget it Pendari Lorentz: we would most likely need something from Kendra on status before we could really talk about it anyway. If that makes sense? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Deadline was August 26th Pendari Lorentz: ah Pendari Lorentz: lol Sudane Erato: oh well Pendari Lorentz: oh well 🙁 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless there was an “extension” Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll talk to Kendra about it. Pendari Lorentz: yes.. that sounds good Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so, back to the “first” item 🙂 Sudane Erato: sure Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do we need any discussion on that? Pendari Lorentz: Ok. The first item on the agenda deals with our final wording that we want to submit to the guild for the two builds we approved as needed for the city Sudane Erato: well, you had said you’d like to change a few things… Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. That’s the 2nd item, lol Pendari Lorentz: if no one has an issue with that wording, I can drop Kendra the notecard Sudane Erato: but that it was ok for now Pendari Lorentz: what’s that Gwyneth? Gwyneth Llewelyn: As I said before, I had some questions & issues on the proposal for the meetings Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’ll postpone those questions & issues Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, ok, this is the point before point 1. Sudane Erato: you can draft a correcting proposal 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry. This *is* a bit confusing! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Sudane – I agree. And sorry, Pen Pendari Lorentz: ah.. yes! Ok. We had adapted the procedures. But yes, we also agreed we could re-vist the procedure. I would motion that any ideas we may have, put them in a notecard and we can submit it for a future agenda proposal Sudane Erato: i agree Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed. And anyway, I wished to have those procedures be field-tested *before* I make any comments on them 🙂 Sudane Erato: that makes sense Pendari Lorentz: yes. I think that is a good idea too Gwyneth Llewelyn: The comments may not make any sense if we find out that everything works well 🙂 Sudane Erato: 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, on the “re-vamped Rathaus” item, I have absolutely nothing to add/change. Gwyneth Llewelyn: One “aye” on that submission to Kendra. 🙂 Sudane Erato: yes, i agree on that too Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, the MoCA…. Pendari Lorentz: I remember your concerns about conditions you wanted for the MoCA Gwyneth. Is there something you want added? Gwyneth Llewelyn: The *only* issue I have is with the following sentence: “The RA will also encourage the formation of a “MoCA Management” (MoCAM) group, composed in the majority of citizens of Neualtenburg” Gwyneth Llewelyn: No. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just clarify that point. Gwyneth Llewelyn: As you know, the SDF is reluctant to have “outsiders” running the Museum. Sudane Erato: ahhhh Pendari Lorentz: ahh Sudane Erato: I was concerned that we would not have enough interest among the citizens Gwyneth Llewelyn: And also, I would like the Guild to have the “first pick” of the MoCAM Sudane Erato: at the same time it must be controlled by the citizens Pendari Lorentz: but would not they become citizens of Neualt by “working” in the city? Gwyneth Llewelyn: If the Guild feels they don’t want to run it, well then, it’s up for the citizens Sudane Erato: no Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no, pen Sudane Erato: only landowners are citizens now Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your concerns are very valid, though, Sudane 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: hmm.. the constitution states that someone working in the city can be a citizen Pendari Lorentz: bah! Sudane Erato: hehe Sudane Erato: well.. Pendari Lorentz: *reserves constitution discussion for now* hehe Sudane Erato: yet another contradiction Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the Constitution does not say that the citizen becomes automatically one 🙂 Sudane Erato: 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes lol, Pen Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, it’s just a question of principle. Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t oppose having non-citizens in Neualtenburg’s “official” thingies… Gwyneth Llewelyn: But Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, we need to define the status of “tourists” Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. ok.. that was my misunderstand for now.. but yes, I agree if they are not citizens, it is not as great an idea, but I also agree with Sudane that there may not be enough intrest within Sudane Erato: well… we should have some statement that goes to the guuild Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. “visiting non-citizens” who also participate. Sudane Erato: ok Sudane Erato: thats good Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is one for the Constitution revision, I think. Sudane Erato: yes Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or eventually it could be a “Bill of Rights” for non-citizens Gwyneth Llewelyn: they would get a notecard when teleporting in Pendari Lorentz: interesting idea! Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA could propose that Gwyneth Llewelyn: see if the SC agrees Sudane Erato: defining citizenship was always to be one of your projects, Gwyn 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, lol, Sudane – very true 😀 Sudane Erato: 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So Pendari Lorentz: ok. motion to put that proposal discussion on next RA Agenda Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two changes on that wording: Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) that the Guild is allowed first to set up the MoCAM itself Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s give them, say, 2 weeks to get back to us with their approval or not Gwyneth Llewelyn: If after 2 weeks they don’t say they’ll run the museum… Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll post in the forums that all are welcome to become the MoCAM Sudane Erato: ooooh Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) that only citizens are allowed Sudane Erato: that makes me anxious Gwyneth Llewelyn: anxious? 🙂 Sudane Erato: posting in the forums Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, lol Pendari Lorentz: hehe Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we need to tell people about the MoCAM Sudane Erato: true Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW – I have a suggestion for “non-citizens” in the MoCAM Sudane Erato: I love word of mouth Pendari Lorentz: well.. first we need to get the proposal from the guild Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s propose the non-citizens as “honourable citizens” 🙂 Sudane Erato: hmmm Sudane Erato: off topic 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: That way, we sidestep the issue hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: No Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I mean is, I’m really against having non-citizens running the MoCAM Pendari Lorentz: before we can vote on what the guild proposes. They may very well propose someone else leading the MoCAM from the get go Gwyneth Llewelyn: But since it would take time to agree on other “status” – tourist, resident, etc Sudane Erato: thats right Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Sudane Erato: better just to say citizens only Pendari Lorentz: so we really need to get this to them, so we can see what they want as well Satchmo Prototype: yea, start with citizen only Sudane Erato: yes pen Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Satchmo Prototype: then loosen the policy if we have troubles Sudane Erato: ok.. Pendari Lorentz: this is not our final vote on the status of the MoCA =) Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Pen. Pendari Lorentz: yes Satch. I like that Satchmo Prototype: I’d prefer outsiders buy a plot in Neualt and live here as well 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course 😀 Sudane Erato: yes exactly Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, can we agree on those two changes, and then submit the revised notecard to Kendra? Pendari Lorentz: ok. So the wording that we are submitting to the Guild on the MoCA (to gather their proposal). What should be added and where? Pendari Lorentz: yes Pendari Lorentz: how about you email them Gwyneth Pendari Lorentz: so that we can see the full thing. To make it easier Gwyneth Llewelyn: Add a line: “The Guild will have the first choice of setting up the MoCAM if they wish” Satchmo Prototype: But one thing Gwyneth Llewelyn: and delete the half-sentence of “a majority of citizens” to be replaced with “of citizens” Sudane Erato: sounds good Satchmo Prototype: if we are gonna have any sort of performance metrics tied to the lease for commercial companyies, like… Satchmo Prototype: if you get XYZ dwell your lease is automatically renewed Satchmo Prototype: else it will be open for bid Sudane Erato: satch, be nice to work towarsd that Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I like that 🙂 hehe Pendari Lorentz: Ok. I’ll have to copy that from the meeting log and I’ll send out an email that shows the entire paragraph with the changes. Because I can’t visualize it while we are meeting Satchmo Prototype: then that should hold true for the Guild as well Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that’s fine, Pen 🙂 ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Satchmo – I agree as well on that! Sudane Erato: oooh, that would be tough to impose on them Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh no! Gwyneth Llewelyn: It wouldn’t be tough, it would be fair. Sudane Erato: true Satchmo Prototype: you know, we shouldn’t have the guild runnign a business just to have a business Sudane Erato: hehe… but tough to do Satchmo Prototype: the business here need to generate dewll and revenue Pendari Lorentz: I motion that you submit that as a proposal for discussion at the next RA Meeting Satchmo Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, lol – yes, I agree 🙂 Sudane Erato: yes! Gwyneth Llewelyn: “What the RA giveth, the RA taketh away” 🙂 Satchmo Prototype: okie dokie Sudane Erato: hehe Satchmo Prototype: I’m on it Pen Pendari Lorentz: I think it would be a great thing to discuss =) Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be very interested in watching those metrics 😉 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we move on? Satchmo Prototype: aye Pendari Lorentz: ok. first item on agenda Summary and Action: Reveamped Rathaus wording approved. MoCA wording will be added to as per suggested. This will be emailed out to RA memebers before being submitted to the Guild. Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Sudane Erato: yes, great Pendari Lorentz: second item Pendari Lorentz: what have any of us done to advertise for the EXPO? Pendari Lorentz: lol Pendari Lorentz: *blush* Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn covers Satchmo Prototype: :/ Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could give my old excuse of this having been an unusually tough week 😉 Sudane Erato: 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is also true – but an excuse nevertheless hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does any of you have logos or a notecard on the Expo? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll start putting “ads” in all the events I run,. Sudane Erato: we should all have the posters Kendra did Pendari Lorentz: I would like to do a massive advertising frenzy starting tomorrow. As the EXPO is next week. Kendra submitted a list on the forums of what will be at the Expo. Would someone volunteer to put that announcement in a notecard and create a sign for the expo Pendari Lorentz: that we can start putting out? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra *has* a sign 😛 Sudane Erato: when really does it start? Gwyneth Llewelyn: 13th Sudane Erato: theres confusion on that Pendari Lorentz: well.. there you go :-p but we need a sign too. hehe.. Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh? Pendari Lorentz: the 12th Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed, confusion 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: hmm Sudane Erato: I thought the 10th Pendari Lorentz: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Pendari Lorentz: LOL Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my. Gwyneth Llewelyn: (checking Kendra’s post) Sudane Erato: the birthday is the 12th, tomorrow Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point. Satchmo Prototype: Expo starts tomorrow Satchmo Prototype: ? Pendari Lorentz: Ok. RA Homework. Confirm date and know it by tomorrow. We need signs. If Kendra has one, she needs to give us a copy. Or we need to make our own. But it does the RA no good to not have access to the advertising materials we need 🙁 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed 🙁 Pendari Lorentz: woah.. tomorrow? Pendari Lorentz: that can’t be right can it? Pendari Lorentz: I thought it was next week 🙁 Satchmo Prototype: me to.. but tomorrow is the 12th Pendari Lorentz: err, meaning.. after next week Pendari Lorentz: weekend Gwyneth Llewelyn: First post of Kendra: “WE know it’s Sept 16 thru the 24th” Pendari Lorentz: Ok Pendari Lorentz: whew Sudane Erato: ahhh, ok 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pendari Lorentz: Ok. We need the sign from Kendra to pass out. But we can also make our own. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, shall we announce it for 16th – 24th then? Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyn Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Sudane Erato: yes Pendari Lorentz: that is the same list post where Kendra details some of the happenings of the Expo Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I *have* claimed a tent, btw 🙂 Only did it yesterday, though) Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, pen. Sudane Erato: i saw 🙂 Sudane Erato: the Gwyn tent 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: I’ll be happy to post in the Forums about the event. and I’ll be happy to post the individual event times as soon as someone gets me that information Sudane Erato: I’m not sure anyone has that info Pendari Lorentz: right Pendari Lorentz: I will have to get that from Kendra Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Kendra suggests a few events. Satchmo Prototype: and people selling things shoudl post product announcements in the forums Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be adding a few as well. Satchmo Prototype: I plan on doing that for my stuff Sudane Erato: ahhh yes Pendari Lorentz: there is no way to advertise if things are not organized =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, good idea, Satchmo 🙂 Sudane Erato: 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: that’s fine Satch! Pendari Lorentz: who wants to get the sign from Kendra that we can start putting around? =) Pendari Lorentz: and does it have in it the info that is in her post on the forums? Gwyneth Llewelyn: (IMing Kendra now) Pendari Lorentz: if not.. we need to get that in there with a notecard giver Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra is on her way 🙂 Sudane Erato: great! Pendari Lorentz: oh good! =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀 Pendari Lorentz: Should we put an ad in some of the ad signs that people do in SL? Gwyneth Llewelyn: telehubs or metaadverse? Pendari Lorentz: the Metadvert or something? Gwyneth Llewelyn: telehubs are free Sudane Erato: does that pay? Gwyneth Llewelyn: although nobody sees them, LOL Sudane Erato: there are too many Sudane Erato: and you always rush out Pendari Lorentz: yes. I can do the hubs one.. but advertising there is not the best.. but since it is free, it can’t hurt =) Satchmo Prototype: we should do a snapzilla photojournalism campaign of it the day it starts Sudane Erato: so as not to be conked on the head Satchmo Prototype: snapzilla is good for word of mouth Satchmo Prototype: and it’s free Pendari Lorentz: very good idea Satch Sudane Erato: yes Pendari Lorentz: it won’t be on the second life website at all.. because we are a mature sim.. but it *will* be able to be on Snapzilla =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Pendari Lorentz: yes.. they only pull pictures for the home page that originate in PG sims Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who had the silly idea to get us a Mature sim? 😀 Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Sudane Erato: hehe Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. it wasn’t me.. but I would have begged for one =) Sudane Erato: seems like everyone went that way 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just joking, Pen 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: lol Pendari Lorentz: it is so we can dance naked in the fountain Pendari Lorentz: *wink* Sudane Erato: after all, we are Mature, now, aren’t we? Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah lol Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head* Pendari Lorentz: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talking of which… Gwyneth Llewelyn: Someone is “testing” the fountain 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: cool! Sudane Erato: I hear Pendari Lorentz: you hear? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: probably Bond 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: I don’t hear anything 🙁 Pendari Lorentz: oh.. would help to put my headphones on :-p Pendari Lorentz: *blush* Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww rofl Pendari Lorentz: ok. is Kendra close? should we wait or come back to this item? Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* Sudane Erato: she’s here Her words: (via Gwyneth Llewelyn) “Kendra Bancroft: be right there” Pendari Lorentz: haha.. speak of the devil! Gwyneth Llewelyn: And there she is, true to her own words, lol Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome Kendra 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: hey Kendra =) Pendari Lorentz: *wave* Gwyneth Llewelyn: She’s still headbanging on the door Kendra Bancroft: Hey Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re welcome to come *in* Kendra 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pendari Lorentz: lol Sudane Erato: hehe Pendari Lorentz: me thinks she is a wee bit laggy Sudane Erato: yes Satchmo Prototype: but we like her anyway Sudane Erato: 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: haha Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I can understand *that* Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the last few days, SL has lagged a bit more than usual to me 😛 Pendari Lorentz: 🙁 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve spent the morning tweaking my Mac, but to no avail. Still only 3-4 fps in Neualtenburg, except outside the city walls… Pendari Lorentz: wow Satchmo Prototype: are we pausing the agenda? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra – turn 90 degrees to your left, go two steps, and you’re here 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: just keep talkin’ Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol ok Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re good at that 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Kendra. Mainly we need from you a sign we can put out about the EXPO. that has a notecard giver in it with details about the EXPO Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Sudane Erato: yes Pendari Lorentz: I thought your post summary on the forums was good for details =) Kendra Bancroft: why not use the expo poster I made? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I think that the best way to go around this is to have all people interested in a tent to contact Kendra directly. Pendari Lorentz: that’s fine! we just need copies of it.. and to be able to modify it so we can put a notecard inside Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes – that would be great, kendra 🙂 Drop it on our profile 🙂 Sudane Erato: thats what i’ve been telling people Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Pendari Lorentz: yes.. if you are interested in a tent.. contact Kendra. Sudane Erato: yes Kendra Bancroft: what the bloody hell is up wuth this door? Pendari Lorentz: we are beating you with it Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow! Gwyneth Llewelyn: You did it, Kendra! Sudane Erato: yea! Kendra Bancroft: I’m gonna cry Sudane Erato: no 🙁 Pendari Lorentz: Ok. If you can drop a modable copy of the sign on us Kendra, we can then get a notecard together and put a notecard giver into the sign Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww no Pendari Lorentz: don’t cry 🙁 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm well Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we go on? Sudane Erato: sure Pendari Lorentz: Agenda Item Summary and Action: Get details of EXPO into a sign (provided by Kendra) and make sign ready to be distributed by Mon Sept 12th. Other advertising actions to be done individually. Sudane Erato: great! Kendra Bancroft: we really need to fix this lag in the marktplatz Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Pen Pendari Lorentz: /nod Kendra Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, kendra Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: Ok. 3rd agenda item. Neualtenburg Currency Proposal Sudane Erato: so next? Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here we go… hehehehe Sudane Erato: well.. is there the feeling we need tgo change? Sudane Erato: we are suffering badly Sudane Erato: from the exchange rate Gwyneth Llewelyn: Everybody is 🙂 Sudane Erato: right now its 287 to the dollar Kendra Bancroft: wouldn’t it be just a simple matter of fixing the linden amount to the US amount? By adjusting to the average GOM price? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uggh Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but we have to vote on that. Sudane Erato: the issue is that we fixed once in June Kendra Bancroft: why? The amount was always based on US payments Sudane Erato: then, how often do we re-fix Pendari Lorentz: My only real issue with the proposal is the fact that it means we have to make sure the website is updated with the new info ASAP each month. Not sure Ulrika will always be available Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Sudane Erato: once a week Sudane Erato: or once a year Kendra Bancroft: the fact that we allowed linden opayments without adjusting was an overight on our part –not a bill Sudane Erato: the website should not be a problem Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, Sudane proposed (I think it was you, Sudane) that we only change it once every month. Kendra Bancroft: it should be adjusted every mponth Sudane Erato: no Kendra… we did have an adjustment Sudane Erato: it just hasnt been changed Sudane Erato: thats the issue Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh Sudane Erato: my proposal suggests once a month as well Kendra Bancroft: But we neer voted to fix that adjustment Gwyneth Llewelyn: You mean the prices charged in L$ are not the ones shown at the Website right now? Sudane Erato: no Pendari Lorentz: I think adjusting it monthly only makes sense. We need to keep in step with the world economy I would think (SL world that is) Satchmo Prototype: I think the Linden value should be changed on teh first to reflect a hard US$ amount with 5% for GOM per suggested by Sudane Sudane Erato: no, they are the ones Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah fine. Kendra Bancroft: so adjusting it everymonth requires no vote –and besides it’s a Guild treasury issue Kendra Bancroft: not an RA issue Satchmo Prototype: the new value should be emailed to everyone as well Sudane Erato: the website updates automatically from my spreradsheet Kendra Bancroft: the Guild is the trasurer Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, from the 4 options: “Still accept payments in $L. Set an exchange rate based on GOM plus 5%. ” sounds the most reasonable to me. Kendra Bancroft: Sudane –you are treasurer for the Guild –not the RA Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true. Sudane Erato: so… does that mean I decide unilaterally? Kendra Bancroft: and the Guild wishes for a monthly adjustment Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Sudane 😀 Sudane Erato: 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: No –it means I do. Sudane Erato: 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Kendra 😉 Sudane Erato: I feel the pople should decide something like this Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in that case, problem solved 😉 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m joking 🙂 Sudane Erato: well we all agree Kendra Bancroft: I could put it up to a Guild vote Pendari Lorentz: true. This proposal was brought up because there had been confusion on the fourms. I know I wasn’t really sure if was an RA issue, but I think that is a reason to have brought it up =) Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the RA can agree that it’s up for the Guild to decide, but *recommend* something Kendra Bancroft: of course Pendari Lorentz: yes Sudane Erato: yes, that could be too Gwyneth Llewelyn: I stick to #2 – Still accept payments in $L. Set an exchange rate based on GOM plus 5%. Kendra Bancroft: I’d like the SC’s input as well Gwyneth Llewelyn: That has my recommendation 🙂 Sudane Erato: Gwyn… we already are at 10% over US$ Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your prerrogative, kendra 🙂 Satchmo Prototype: right, per Gwyn’s recomendation 🙂 Sudane Erato: I don’t think we should come down to 5 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm so we’re at 10% over GOM? Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or we were, you mean, when we set it up? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Kendra Bancroft: I will put it up for a Guild vote –and we will implement the decision for next month’s billing Sudane Erato: yes.. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry about my ignorance 😛 Pendari Lorentz: I personally would never vote yes to aproposal that would take away the ability to pay in Linden dollars =) Sudane Erato: just for this reason Gwyneth Llewelyn: search & replace for 5% and go for 10% Sudane Erato: no Pen..! Sudane Erato: thats not veing proposed Sudane Erato: and that would cause our end Kendra Bancroft: I think we should demand Linden payment based on a monthly comparison to the US amount Kendra Bancroft: but that’s just me Sudane Erato: well, we could Sudane Erato: payment on L$ is actaully better Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well that would be an alternative, yes. Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree. Yes. Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. Ok. Summary and Action on this agenda item: RA involvement not needed. Proposal handed back over to Guild and Treasury Sudane Erato: but some may wish to pay in US$ Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let *them* have the trouble of converting money Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway Kendra Bancroft: That’s why I say –it’sd just my opinion Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is just a *recommendation* Kendra Bancroft: and I agree, Gwynn Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀 Kendra Bancroft: It should be the responsabilty of the citizen to pay in Linden Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Kendra Bancroft: not our treasurer to convert Kendra Bancroft: it’s far ore transparent that way Pendari Lorentz: Sudane.. does my summary sound right on this item? Kendra Bancroft: more Sudane Erato: no, actually the treasurer must convert most of the funds to US$.. Sudane Erato: in order to pay the LL fee Sudane Erato: but… Kendra Bancroft: yes –but let that be the only issue Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that’s on the “expenses” side of it Sudane Erato: its still better the way you suggest Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not on the “income” Sudane Erato: my only question is “requiring” it Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I have no issue with *that* 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if there is any citizen who doesn’t agree…. Kendra Bancroft: I also think the treasurer –if getting Lindens payments only would be freer to play with the sliding GOM Sudane Erato: ok Kendra Bancroft: and possibly net us some profit Sudane Erato: hehe Sudane Erato: well… don’t know about profit Sudane Erato: but at least Sudane Erato: less loss Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cover the costs of inflation. yes. Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Summary and Action on this agenda item: RA involvement not needed. Proposal handed back over to Guild and Treasury Kendra Bancroft: No reason to not get the most favorable exchange Sudane Erato: ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed as well Pendari Lorentz: after the RA meeting, we can always discuss this more as guild people =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any proposals we shuld make to the Guild, or no influence at all? Kendra Bancroft: I’ll run the issue through the Guild member voting sstem Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok. Sudane Erato: ok, good Kendra Bancroft: and I’ll open it to all Guild members, not just meisters Pendari Lorentz: I really think this is out of the hands of the RA in all honesty. Since we are not proposing any taxation right now (or possibly ever) Sudane Erato: hehe… tax and spend!! Pendari Lorentz: that would be the only time I could see “money” issues being an RA concern Pendari Lorentz: based on the Constitution Gwyneth Llewelyn: “through a coordinated effort for the wellbeing of the citizens of Neualtenburg, both the Guild and the RA, in unprecedented collaboration, wish to inform the citizens that, for the public good, we have proposed…” Gwyneth Llewelyn: (from the N’burg Tagesblatt) Pendari Lorentz: *wink* Sudane Erato: lol Gwyn! Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Pendari Lorentz: LOL Gwyn Pendari Lorentz: ok. Pendari Lorentz: Agenda item 4 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, next item… Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* Sudane Erato: yes Pendari Lorentz: Now. I will be going to NY for the SLCC Sudane Erato: yea!! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay! Kendra Bancroft: ooooooh we must do lunch Satchmo Prototype: me to 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: but I don’t think I”ll get a full platform to promote Neualt, though you can bet I’ll be talking about it.. haha Gwyneth Llewelyn: You too? Oh, great, Satchmo 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: yay Satch! and of course Kendra!! haha Satchmo Prototype: Yea not the party the night before, I have a wedding to go to Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe Satchmo Prototype: but i”ll be at the expo Kendra Bancroft: I live in Brooklyn –and it will be my RL birthday Sudane Erato: oh!! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, really Kendra?! Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe what a coincidence! Kendra Bancroft: yep Satchmo Prototype: sweet Kendra Sudane Erato: hehe Pendari Lorentz: well. I won a 1024 plot and Gwyn has a 512 plot where we can set up information about Neualtenburg Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Kendra Bancroft: word of warning –I don’t really have a snowhite beehive Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Sudane Erato: lol Satchmo Prototype: I’m not green either :/ Pendari Lorentz: LOL Kendra Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaah Sudane Erato: lol Pendari Lorentz: well.. I’m not 7’4″ either Pendari Lorentz: *blush* Sudane Erato: no!!?? Kendra Bancroft: ‘I’m 5’6″ the only thing similar is the glasses Sudane Erato: I thought you were! Gwyneth Llewelyn: nothing that one-foot-heels won’t solve, Pen 😉 Pendari Lorentz: hahaha Pendari Lorentz: Ok. So Kendra Bancroft: Sudane –you always make me nervous bring a stick to the meetings Sudane Erato: hehe Pendari Lorentz: does the RA want to submit a request from the guild for some creative items to add to these sponsor plots. And also Sudane Erato: discipline 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 things, actually Sudane Erato: psk Pendari Lorentz: I would like to propose a committee that would gather information about Neualt to put on these plots and get them set up Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) do we wish for more space (I’d say yes) Kendra Bancroft: whew –now I feel safer Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) can we agree to comission all the work for that to the Guild, starting ASAP? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, after the Expo, anyway. Pendari Lorentz: If the guild will “build the decorations” for the plots, I’m fine with commission going to them Sudane Erato: time is getting tight Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. Pendari Lorentz: but yes.. we need this stuff ready fast Kendra Bancroft: what are we talking about here? Kendra Bancroft: decorations? Kendra Bancroft: for? Kendra Bancroft: I’m a bit out of the loop on this Gwyneth Llewelyn: hm Pen – did you give Kendra the agenda? Pendari Lorentz: she did not click on te peguin Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, briefly, Kendra… Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, right, lol Pendari Lorentz: I just gave her that one notecard for now.. hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway, besides the RL part of the convention Kendra Bancroft: oh okay –so we want a mini Neualtenburg? Gwyneth Llewelyn: there is a SL part to it as well Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Pendari Lorentz: hmm.. Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should think what we put on the SL side of it. Yes. Pendari Lorentz: yes Sudane Erato: yes Pendari Lorentz: gwyn yes Kendra Bancroft: An architectural model of the city would be fun Gwyneth Llewelyn: thus, the comittee. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, kendra Sudane Erato: can you do that quickly!!? Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’d also like some notecards and links to the website with the social/political part of N’burg Kendra Bancroft: How long do I have? Sudane Erato: yes Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyn Sudane Erato: Oct 9 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Until October, 8th 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: or 9 right. Pendari Lorentz: hmm.. the conference is the 8th and 9th Kendra Bancroft: I could do that –yes Sudane Erato: great! Gwyneth Llewelyn: You could just reuse stuff, Kendra. Pendari Lorentz: would be nice to set it up as soon as the plots are available Kendra Bancroft: exactly Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true, Pen. Pendari Lorentz: and I’ll be flying to NY on Fri the 7th Kendra Bancroft: and we already have it mapped out as a gif Sudane Erato: when will they be available? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a few days before, according to Hiro 😛 Kendra Bancroft: I would just place the image map on the ground and place stuff Sudane Erato: oh Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Pendari Lorentz: I’ll check on when they will be available and let everyone know.. exactly.. I heard that as well Gwyn.. a set date would be ideal if I can squeeze one out of Hiro.. hehe Kendra Bancroft: a scale model Gwyneth Llewelyn: The worst part of it is… Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “booths” are going to be distributed on the order of confirmation Kendra Bancroft: does anyone have a modable versiin of Ulrika’s fachwerks? Sudane Erato: I doo Gwyneth Llewelyn: But chosen by the organisation – not picked by the people exhibiting stuff Sudane Erato: but they’re not copyable Kendra Bancroft: poo Kendra Bancroft: I’ll make my own Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pendari Lorentz: Ok. So we may not be able to have our plots together Gwyn? Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Pen Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope we will, yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll talk to Hiro about that. Pendari Lorentz: maybe you and I could approach Hiro together with our plan Pendari Lorentz: ? Pendari Lorentz: ok =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sure he will allow us to join them! Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sure. Gwyneth Llewelyn: What remains is that if we just go with the 1512 m2 Gwyneth Llewelyn: or get some more Kendra Bancroft: Is it 1024 square do we know? Gwyneth Llewelyn: remains *to be decided Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t, kendra 😛 Sudane Erato: i’m certainlu in favor of more if it can be put to good use Pendari Lorentz: I have a 1024 plot.. Gwyn has a 512 plot Kendra Bancroft: well –whatever it is –I can figure out something Gwyneth Llewelyn: To be honest, last weekend, Hiro didn’t had any idea except for the overall layout – 4 sims together (they’ll reuse the Relay for Life ones), a central “stage”, booths around it in circles Sudane Erato: hmmm Kendra Bancroft: It’s a small matter for me to miniaturize things Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are also the “tiny city” ones… Kendra Bancroft: I already have all the textures Pendari Lorentz: Ok. who thinks we may need more space than the combined 1024 and 512? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to propose that we buy at least anothr 512 m2 Satchmo Prototype: to be honest I have no idea Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s more a question of principle Kendra Bancroft: the more space the better Sudane Erato: I agree Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, space is expensive, Kendra! Kendra Bancroft: if only for the prims Sudane Erato: how much $$? Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1: 512m – $30 / 8,400L$ 2: 1024m – $55 / 15,300L$ 3: 2048m – $100 / 27,800L$ 4: 2048m, double prim limit – $190 / 52,800L$ Pendari Lorentz: if we can afford it, I can agree to an additional 512 over what we already have Sudane Erato: I’d say the $55 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, at the very least, we’d be talking about 8400 L$ Sudane Erato: 1024 more Kendra Bancroft: I think we can make do with 1500 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember, Sudane, the Guild’s work is also to be paid! Sudane Erato: sure Pendari Lorentz: right Sudane Erato: definitely Pendari Lorentz: but this can be a *huge* thing for Neualt Kendra Bancroft: let’ stick with what we have Pendari Lorentz: this conference is getting a lot of exposure Kendra Bancroft: don’t worry –I’ll be building to impress Sudane Erato: hehe Pendari Lorentz: I would never worry otherwise Kendra Pendari Lorentz: =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra: I just mention this as a matter of “principle”. After all, if these guys don’t raise enough cash, we simply won’t have a Convention next year and the project will be a failure. I wouldn’t like to say that we had contributed for that by not Gwyneth Llewelyn: sponsoring anything with L$ oir US$ Kendra Bancroft: it’s getting all the teeny tiny AVs that has me worried Sudane Erato: well US$ Satchmo Prototype: I’m up for another 512 to support the convention Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m more than willing to contribute with the extra US$30, hehe Satchmo Prototype: but this money comes from where? Neualtenburg cash reserves? Pendari Lorentz: Ok. So we have a motion for 512 more, a motion for 1024 more, an “I don’t know” and I change my vote to “sure whatever we can manage!” =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well in theory yes, Satchmo. Sudane Erato: we have the cash Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Pen 🙂 Sudane Erato: we just don’t have the revenue Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Satch changed to 512 Sudane Erato: if this helps turn that around Kendra Bancroft: gotta spend to earn, Bucko Pendari Lorentz: lol Sudane Erato: yes, exactly Sudane Erato: thats the risk Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I’ll try to make sure that Hiro puts not only the name but the website link for Neualtenburg on the SLCC program Sudane Erato: great Pendari Lorentz: do we know how many prims are available per size Gwyn? Gwyneth Llewelyn: as well as at the SLCC site, of course Satchmo Prototype: are we up for philanthropy from citizens to help support the convention space? Sudane Erato: i would think the usual, Pen Pendari Lorentz: I think that is a great idea Satch Sudane Erato: m2 x 23% Gwyneth Llewelyn: Standard prims, Pen. But you have option #4, double prims, but 2048 Kendra Bancroft: the beauty of a minaiture city –is that we actually use few prims Sudane Erato: oh! Pendari Lorentz: ok Kendra Bancroft: the buidings have no innards Kendra Bancroft: it’s all texture work Sudane Erato: interesting Gwyneth Llewelyn: So. I’m sorry to be pressing Pendari Lorentz: so 2 votes for 512.. 1 vote for 1024 more.. I’m not certain which I vote for.. to me the more the better, but I’m concerned about cost Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’d really like to have a “final agreement” Kendra Bancroft: and people feel like Godzilla Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll vote for 512 Pendari Lorentz: and I agree with Gwyn on her reasons for wanting to purchase more =) Sudane Erato: so I’ll go with 512 Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’ll be also pestering Hiro with cross-advertising Gwyneth Llewelyn: meaning, having their kiosk at the Expo Gwyneth Llewelyn: and squeeze an extra 512 😉 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eventyually Sudane Erato: ok Sudane Erato: good Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we’re doing an “ad campaign” for the Expo Kendra Bancroft: I can make specialty free steins Gwyneth Llewelyn: we could mention the Convention at our paid-for ad space Gwyneth Llewelyn: And squeeze some more space that way, LOL Sudane Erato: 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, we need to estimate the number of visitors at the Expo 2005 😉 Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is your feeling? Gwyneth Llewelyn: 50? 500? 5000? Sudane Erato: 5000 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5? 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: there is a cap of 160 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5000, ok., One week, so, ~700 people per day? Pendari Lorentz: oh.. sorry.. you are talking Expo Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Pendari Lorentz: lol Sudane Erato: yes Pendari Lorentz: I was still talking about the SLCC Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pendari, what I meant was… Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll say to Hiro: “we expect X visitors at the Expo ’05” Gwyneth Llewelyn: “based on our previous events, say, Oktoberfest, Xmas thingy, etc” Pendari Lorentz: ah yes.. ok.. reverse trade advertising =) Sudane Erato: sure Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s excatly it! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or even “exactly”. lol Kendra Bancroft: Oktoberfest was huge –and it was only for one day Pendari Lorentz: true Kendra Bancroft: The city wound making 10,000L that day Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s very right, Kendra. Any estimates? (it was at non-Euro-friendly hours, so I missed it all 😛 ) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s a good one Gwyneth Llewelyn: How much does the Hat cost? Pendari Lorentz: ok. Summary and Action for this agenda item: Guild will work on items for displaying on the sponsor plots. Gwyn and Pen will get with Hiro about being able to combine plots. And we will buy additional space as discussed. Gwyneth will be main contact Gwyneth Llewelyn: L$100? Kendra Bancroft: we also sold alot of steins Sudane Erato: good Pen Sudane Erato: I agree Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just to estimate people, Kendra – say, 100 people bought things Kendra Bancroft: I would say 100 is about right Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Kendra Bancroft: and people bought on average 5 pieces each Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the Expo, we estimate around 1000 people Pendari Lorentz: in other words.. we have to make it appleaing for them to want to trade advertising .. Stats help with that =) Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll tell Hiro, around 1000 people, each one buying 5 items, Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is not bad 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: also remember –neualtenburg was only a month old at that time, and few people had even heard of us Pendari Lorentz: very true Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that’s quite right! Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hmm we just had 1/3 of the current population. Pendari Lorentz: Ok. You work on those stats with Kendra Gwyn? Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, sure 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: we had five citizens Kendra Bancroft: lol Pendari Lorentz: ok. Next agenda item: possible State of Play entry for Neualtenburg Sudane Erato: great! Kendra Bancroft: what’s involved with that? Pendari Lorentz: this entry is actually much more easy it seems Kendra Bancroft: don’t we need a movie? Satchmo Prototype: we need a movie or screenshots Satchmo Prototype: I”m gonna take a shot at making a movie Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s more easy?! Pendari Lorentz: LOL Kendra Bancroft: Can I suggest the theme music? Sudane Erato: hehe Satchmo Prototype: Ulrika is gonna write the doc about the design of the city Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m glad you say that 😀 Satchmo Prototype: I’ll coordinate the administrivia Pendari Lorentz: meaning Gwyn.. it is sort of a do it and submit it.. rather than a “setting up stuff” kinda thing Satchmo Prototype: and yes, you can suggest the theme music 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: it works well with our message and architecture Kendra Bancroft: ELP-fanfare for the comon man Pendari Lorentz: afk for 2 mins.. very sorry! Keep discussing Satchmo Prototype: so I’ll make a post this afternoon about it as well Satchmo Prototype: so everyone can have input Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, I was rereading it Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, yes Satchmo Prototype: I don’t think any of my other projects are gonna submit, so no conflict of interest there Kendra Bancroft: I have such a migraine Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think this will be easy. Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww poor Kendra 😛 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, yes, I fully support this proposal…. Kendra Bancroft: I’m sitting in my apartment with a baseball hat and sunglasses Sudane Erato: i agree..! Satchmo Prototype: easy for us, cause our “Space” is already built Kendra Bancroft: my mom can make costumes! Let’s put on a show! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I can get Moon Adamant (she’s my roomie and a RL architect – or at least she studied architecture, rofl) to write some things on medieval architecture of Germany, although it’s not her speciality Gwyneth Llewelyn: although the info on Ulrika’s proposal for last year is quite good, actually. Satchmo Prototype: yea Urlrika will be in charge of the doc Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyone has a super-fast computer that gives 50-60 fps even on the Marktplatz? 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: Nasa? Satchmo Prototype: heh, I have a decent one Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be needed to grab movies with FRAPS Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Kendra 😀 Satchmo Prototype: although I’d love to rip out the tinies, and all the casino machines for the filiming 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have *access* to one fast computer, but well… it’s a battleground of virus in there 😛 Satchmo Prototype: I use a G5 and pipe out the video via firewire to a mac mini that does the Quicktime encoding Kendra Bancroft: Ulrika does — if she could just capture random scenes –I can do all the editing Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow! Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s fantastic, Satchmo! Satchmo Prototype: yea it’s a work setup actually Gwyneth Llewelyn: Incredible! Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well prhaps you could do the capturing, and pass the clips to Kendra for editing? Satchmo Prototype: yea that works Gwyneth Llewelyn: And ask Ulrika to do the same Gwyneth Llewelyn: More footage to work with 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: The editing I can definately handle Kendra Bancroft: I can frankly do the voiceovers too –I’m a professional voice actress Satchmo Prototype: perfect! Satchmo Prototype: good I wasn’t looking forward to the editting anyway Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh wow Kendra Bancroft: I can adapt the doc to a script Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Gwyneth Llewelyn: fantastic, Kendra! Pendari Lorentz: back.. very sorry Sudane Erato: whew! this should be amazing! Satchmo Prototype: anyway, that’s just gonna be a good video to have Satchmo Prototype: we can put it up on the web also Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should have used that approach for the contest in the early summer for making a promotional video of SL, hehe Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yeeees Satchmo!! Satchmo Prototype: as well as stream it in world if the oppurtunity arises Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed!!! Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can offer some space on my streaming video server, hehe Kendra Bancroft: Satch do you have an FTP sight I can DL the clips from? Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, “my” is not the correct word Pendari Lorentz: Ok. So Basically, do you want to take charge of this project Satch and work with Kendra (and anyone else that wishes to help)? Satchmo Prototype: yea sounds like a plan Satchmo Prototype: I’m good at contests Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would love to help, but I’m a terrible amateur at both video capture & editing, lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s very true, Satchmo 😀 Kendra Bancroft: yeah –I can’t organize this –I’d prefer to take a second banana position Pendari Lorentz: I can do some modeling Pendari Lorentz: *wink* Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pendari Lorentz: lol Sudane Erato: hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: ahh sure 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could set up some events for capturing, yes Kendra Bancroft: we should ask Garnet to model as well Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, the Expo ’05 will be a good pretext 😀 Satchmo Prototype: yea the expo seems to be a good one 🙂 Sudane Erato: yes! Kendra Bancroft: she looks so good in my clothing Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol I agree!! Sudane Erato: hehe Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm we may even sell the video for LL to promote the German side of SL – hehe Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Summary and Action: Satch will take charge of this project and get out all details and needed information Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll trade the rights for, say, a year without fees 😉 Sudane Erato: great Pen Kendra Bancroft: har har Gwyneth Llewelyn: agreed Pen 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: but don’t tell the citizens Kendra Bancroft: mwahahahahahahahahahah Gwyneth Llewelyn: Item #6 and that’s all for today Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Final agenda item. This one will be a hard vote, so will not be voted on today, but the proposal is on the floor Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course *not* Kendra 🙂 hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Kendra Bancroft: I vote no Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Pendari Lorentz: hard vote = umm.. meaning that we have 7 days to vote on this but the proposal is on the floor (as per the procedures) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, first, we need to know two things… Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) how much will building those chalets cost Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) how much are we expecting to get from the rentals Kendra Bancroft: I expect to rent for 250 a month Gwyneth Llewelyn: And eventually 3) how long will they be available Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, 250 Pendari Lorentz: I guess my main question was… don’t we do this already? Pendari Lorentz: *blush* Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, how big each chalet? Kendra Bancroft: available thru the winter months Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t rent, Pen 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: we don’t?? Sudane Erato: no, we’re not currently renting anything Kendra Bancroft: but we will be renting vacation homes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Kendra – could we start the rental period just before Oktoberfest? What do you think? Sudane Erato: yes Pendari Lorentz: hmm.. that would explain why those who “work” for the city are all citizens then Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be a good promotion, I think. Kendra Bancroft: During Oktobrfest Sudane Erato: yes Pen 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: we will be offering four month leases Pendari Lorentz: *puts more red ink on Constitution paper for dicussion Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Kendra Bancroft: but you can rent by the month Sudane Erato: 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: (lol Pen) Pendari Lorentz: lol Kendra Bancroft: Sarch –can you make lockable doors by chance? Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I understand the proposal… Kendra Bancroft: Satch Satchmo Prototype: yea I can do that Kendra Pendari Lorentz: well I love this idea personally… Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Guild will buy those for free and get a split on the revenues? (if yes, I agree completely) Sudane Erato: yes, i think its a great idea Kendra Bancroft: I envison the chalets to be 50 prims each –with another 50 prims available for furniture Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you think, Kendra? Kendra Bancroft: yes –a 50% 50% split with the Guild was what I envisioned Sudane Erato: yes Kendra Bancroft: and I’ll be taking a 10% split from the Guild as projekt leader Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. Sure 🙂 Sudane Erato: 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: And how much will cost the City to have the chalets & furniture be built? Kendra Bancroft: what I’d like to set up is a vendor selling “keys” Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, wow Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head* Satchmo Prototype: you need the key to unlock a door? Kendra Bancroft: we’re building semi furnished chalets Gwyneth Llewelyn: Interesting challenge 🙂 Pendari Lorentz: you know.. what about a rental plaque outside each chalet. Much like many malls and apartments do in SL? Kendra Bancroft: easier, Pen Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Kendra’s approach is cooler 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: I like it Pendari Lorentz: lol Kendra Bancroft: yes –mine is cooler Satchmo Prototype: I can do the key thing no problem I think Kendra Bancroft: hahahaha Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀 Pendari Lorentz: I think the two ideas can be combined really =) Kendra Bancroft: it also requires no management Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, how big a space? i.e. how many chalets total? Kendra Bancroft: The keys can bet set to de-rez after a month? Sudane Erato: well, for the 100 prims.. Kendra Bancroft: I need to examine the space Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh Sudane Erato: tou need about 400m2 Pendari Lorentz: that was how I wanted to do all the homes in Neualt back in the beginning.. Pre the deed stuff we have now =) Sudane Erato: probaly room for 6 Satchmo Prototype: yea, we can talk about the rental method some other time Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes 😀 Kendra Bancroft: yes, that’s right, Sudane Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, right, 6 houses… Sudane Erato: approx Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, hmm Kendra Bancroft: yes –I think six is a good number Gwyneth Llewelyn: best income projection: 6 x 4 x 250, ie L$ 6,000 Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂 Sudane Erato: well, depends on available space Pendari Lorentz: will the chalets be pre-furnished? Kendra Bancroft: and since they will all be duplicates –I only need build one and then repeat it Kendra Bancroft: semi furnished Sudane Erato: yes Pendari Lorentz: ok Kendra Bancroft: fireplaces –beds and couches Kendra Bancroft: –basic stuff Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Kendra Bancroft: they can always fill up the rest as they like Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t use the standard Linden fireplace, though, it’s terribly laggy – lol Sudane Erato: hehe Kendra Bancroft: No –I’ve built my own Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah great! Pendari Lorentz: cool.. I wish every empty “home” in Neualt had at least that in them.. would make things not look so vacant.. hehe Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm yes, good point, Pen… Pendari Lorentz: but that is another issue =) Pendari Lorentz: eek! Gwyneth Llewelyn: It is, yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although… we might also rent some of the homes during the same period 😛 Pendari Lorentz: oh! that is pretty Kendra Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉 Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, wow Kendra Bancroft: neay huh? Pendari Lorentz: Ok. If nothing further to add. Summary and Action for this item: Vote yes or no on this proposal within the next 7 days =) Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* indeed! Kendra Bancroft: neat Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, lol Sudane Erato: yes, great Satchmo Prototype: adjourned? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds like it 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: all the chalets will be one story on stilts with a front porch Pendari Lorentz: Ok. That is the end of our agenda for today. I’ll put together the chatlog and summary and get it out to everyone (and onto the forums). Please submit proposals for the next meeting at any time before we have the next one =) Pendari Lorentz: meeting adjourned and thank you all! =) Sudane Erato: great Pen!! Kendra Bancroft: 2 bedrooms, a living room and a kitchenette Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Pen 🙂 Sudane Erato: thanks! Satchmo Prototype: cool, I got two issues I’d like to discuss with anyone who is intersted in listening Satchmo Prototype: just want to get peeeps opinions The meeting closed at 11:55 Linden time. Object-Name: notetaker beta 2 ::droool :::: Guild* running the Casino. Pendari Lorentz: Kendra. Would the guild standard on Casinos be that 5 😉 Pendari Lorentz: oh.. haha Meeting on 2005-10-02 Object-Name: notetaker beta 2 The meeting closed at 14:29 Linden time. Sudane Erato is in the chair.3rd Representative Assembly
RA Meeting: August 02, 2005
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Satchmo Prototype: popcorn!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on that, Pen 🙂
Sudane Erato: ooooo k
Sudane Erato: does everyone have the Agenda?
Pendari: err, yes.. aye or nay.. haha
Garnet Psaltery: yes
Sudane Erato: In addition to the agenda
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol – I meant actually that I vote for that proposal 🙂
Pendari: Eugene, Satch ?
Satchmo Prototype: yes
Eugene Pomeray: yay
Kendra Bancroft: everyone looks so lovely in Modehaus designs –I’m all choked up!
Sudane Erato: the other card in the penguin is the proposed procedures for this august body
Garnet Psaltery: :o)
Kendra Bancroft: I need to make more men’s wear
Gwyneth Llewelyn had no time to change 😛
Pendari: ok. motion passed. Sudane will be acting LRA for this meeting =) floor is yours Sudane
Sudane Erato: thx 🙂
Sudane Erato: please note the proceedings proposal…
Sudane Erato: we can vote on that during the week…
Sudane Erato: and if passed by the members…
Sudane Erato: will be effect next meeting
Sudane Erato: until then.. we’ll be informal
Sudane Erato: it had been my suggestion to not take any votes today…
Sudane Erato: but there are some urgent matters
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The notecard is basically a copy of the email you sent earlier, right?
Sudane Erato: so… on the matter of the budget… and the expo
Satchmo Prototype: with a modificaiton on the proportions that make up a committe Gwyn
Sudane Erato: yes, Gwyn… revised by Pen and Satch and me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A yes. Ok.
Sudane Erato: a significant element is that discussions happen here…
Sudane Erato: but votes are taken in between meetings
Sudane Erato: and then published… with who voted for what
Sudane Erato: hopefully that will make for more deliberation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow yes, that’s a big change.
Sudane Erato: while keeping events entirely transparent
Sudane Erato: but…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Kendra Bancroft: and we likes activity
Sudane Erato: that would be for next week….
Pendari: I’m assuming the idea behind that proposal is to give RA members a bit more time to actually “think” about a proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ty for the pic, Garnet 🙂 )
Sudane Erato: unless anyone would like to discuss those now?
Satchmo Prototype: yea and to solicity public opinion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: exactly
Garnet Psaltery gave you Rathaus 21st August 2005.
Pendari: hehe.. thank you Garnet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I certainly need a week to think it over 🙂 My problem is – how will the votes be cast?
Kendra Bancroft: I’d appreciate the matter of the Expo being handled with some speed — Labor Day weekend would be a great time to have the event
Sudane Erato: well… I have re-constituted the RA Group
Sudane Erato: maybe that will help polling
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right, Sudane – so, this means I have to leave yet another group 🙁
Sudane Erato: yes, kendra
Pendari: I think that if we want to adopt those proposals for next meeting, then we have no choice but to discuss them today.. however, I think they could fall under Category 4 in the agenda “Other RA proposals”
Sudane Erato: I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: ok
Satchmo Prototype: yea lets kick off the agenda 🙂
Sudane Erato: so… the Budget/the expo
Sudane Erato: I think everyone whos interested has read my monthly budget reports?
Sudane Erato: so there is a sense of where were at?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Eugene Pomeray: well we should create an expo commitee…
Satchmo Prototype nods
Pendari: somewhat.. yes.. I think I understand it enough =)
Sudane Erato: is there a proposal for the Expo?
Kendra Bancroft: am I crashed again?
Sudane Erato: hehe.. no
Pendari: no Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see you, Kendra 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane: not a “proposal” per se, more like some forum discussions, and some in-world discussions as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning, we have a place…
Sudane Erato: ok… but I mean a proposal for action
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A rough idea 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No bodget 😉
Sudane Erato: like… to spend how much money?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or even budget … 😉
Pendari: as I understand, the RA would be responsible for advertising about the EXPO, but the guild would be in charge of creating it.. So if we had an EXPO committee, it would be strictly for advertising, but would need to work with the Guild to know *what* to
Pendari: advertise
Sudane Erato: sure
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Satchmo Prototype: and determine the budget
Pendari: is that correct?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Pen 🙂
Pendari: right
Pendari: Does the guild have an idea on what costs would be involved with the EXPO?
Eugene Pomeray: so, kendra as the guildmeister, what are your plans for the expo?
Kendra Bancroft: I see it as a more or less a street faire
Eugene Pomeray: hello 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: hello Yogeswari
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello Yoge 🙂
Yogeswari Padar: hi, sorry i’m late 🙂
Sudane Erato: hi Yogeswari 🙂
Pendari: hi Yogeswari =)
Yogeswari Padar: hi all!
Pendari: a street faire.. will guildmembers / citizens be selling items?
Satchmo Prototype: so it’s gonna be a street fair for Neualt vendors?
Sudane Erato: what action should the RA take regarding it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (with live music, hehe – I got the DJ for that 😉 )
Satchmo Prototype: I think we should make a committe of people really interested in making this happen
Satchmo Prototype: and who can fast track it
Satchmo Prototype: and put together an organized proposal
Sudane Erato: great…. who will work with the Guild?
Eugene Pomeray: yes, i would be interested 🙂
Pendari: I would propse that the RA set up a budget for advertising, and allow citizens/guild members to sell their items but not be taxed on them by the city.. to recieve full profit so as to encourage the guild to *want* to create as much as they can
Satchmo Prototype: the commitee would work with the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll certainly help with promotion & event handling, although, as you all know, I can’t stick 2 prims together
Sudane Erato: poi… we are not taxing now
Pendari: hehe.. shh!
Pendari: lol
Satchmo Prototype: the committee should propose the budget, rules, date, place etc to the RA at our next meeting
notetaker beta 2: Script run-time error
notetaker beta 2: Stack-Heap? Collision
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, as a guideline, only citizens will allow to set up their stalls/booths/vendors, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh oh – there goes our note taker!
Eugene Pomeray: well i think for the expo we can tranform a building, into the Neualtenburg Information center for the expo and beyond
Pendari: ok.. When is the EXPO scheduled to happen?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *and* Kendra. Whew.
Pendari: I’m actually working on my building for that now Eugene =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eugene: it was supposed to be held in Altenburg, so, there are some buildings there…
Pendari: that I will leave as a permanent Info/welcome center
Eugene Pomeray: great pendari 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s another topic – the info centre.
Eugene Pomeray: yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the proposal should include….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – when?
Pendari: It was something I wanted to do ages ago, but then had my break from SL.. as a guild memeber and ra member and citizen, I really want to make it a great neautral welcome and info area
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – where? (Altenburg?)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – who is allowed to participate as seller?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – how much spent on advertising, promotion, etc?
Pendari: the When is a major thing.. as it lets us know how soon we have to plan the budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn: – how much for the Guild?
Sudane Erato: whew!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so – after we have a budget 🙂 That sounds good to me.
Satchmo Prototype: that’s a good list Gwyn
Pendari: yes.. that is a great list for the proposal Gwyn!
Sudane Erato: sure…
Garnet Psaltery: Sellers ough tto be citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a list of *questions*, lol
Garnet Psaltery: it is an Expo of the city after all
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, can we agree on that? Only citizens can sell?
Sudane Erato: can we proceed this week.. with the assumption there will be a budget…
Sudane Erato: and then approve it next week?
Satchmo Prototype: so who’s interested in being on that comittee?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds good, Sudane. But at least we should get a committee working on the proposal, so that we can vote it next week then.
Sudane Erato: yes…color=#777777
Pendari: I have a question I would like to present about the Budget.. Would it be easier for the RA if we had a set L$ amount per month as what we could use (or whatever length of time) and then divide that amount up among the various items we want to see built?
Sudane Erato: Satch is right
Garnet Psaltery: I’ll join a committe if I’m allowed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, drats, I won’t be here next Sunday – but no problem 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: i’ll join as well
Sudane Erato: oooh, I can’t be either
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Sudane Erato: Pen, thats a different matter I think
Pendari: What about Saturday?
Eugene Pomeray: welcomke back kendra
Pendari: welcome back Kendra
Sudane Erato: 🙂 wb Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, I’ll be on my 3-day-vacation next weekend 😛
Kendra Bancroft: sorry about my connection today –where did I leave off?
Sudane Erato: then lets carry on by email and IM
Satchmo Prototype: and forum!
Pendari: ok Sudane.. I asked the question because I’m not sure how to even begin to decide what project gets what amount if I don’t know how much we have to start with.. haha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Satchmo Prototype: lol, actually I meant hte comitte should discuss things on the forum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe good point
Satchmo Prototype: and I dunno why I can’t spell that word
Sudane Erato: techinically, we have no revenue
Pendari: lol
Sudane Erato: but we do have cash
Sudane Erato: so…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm we have a revenue – just below the running costs.
Sudane Erato: life is a risk 🙂
Sudane Erato: sorry, right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Sudane Erato: no net revenue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry to be a pedant 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Garnet Psaltery: there’ll be money I’m sure by hook or by crook
Sudane Erato: np 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, there is cash…
Pendari: Ok. Does anyone have an idea then about how much we should just state “This is our budget ceiling to be divided among projects we want the guild to work on?”
Sudane Erato: but you must be careful with cash while we lose money each month
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Satchmo Prototype: there are some items, were the sales go into the city coffers still right?
Sudane Erato: Pen… if thats our approach
Garnet Psaltery: well I would suggest other projects have a public subscription attached to them
Sudane Erato: I really feel we must study it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Satchmo – still, we’re losing around L$ 10k per month.
Satchmo Prototype: The stiens, and chicken hats
Sudane Erato: for the longer term impact
Satchmo Prototype: yes, but I’m saying we can recover some city revenue at the expo
Satchmo Prototype: the casino should see more action as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari: Ok. My main concern is that the guild is going to refuse to build for us if we do not figure out *soon* how much we can offer them
Eugene Pomeray: we need a business commitee L(‘
Kendra Bancroft: Might I share the guild’s plans so you can better judge the price of the EXPO?
Pendari: for now we can deal with individual projects though
Satchmo Prototype: Chamber of Commerce maybe Eugene
Sudane Erato: a financial commiittee would be HIGHLY welcome
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tha would be great, kendra 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Sudane Erato: sure
Pendari: yes.. please do Kendra =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, Kendra has a suggestion on how the Guild should work while we can’t pay them…
Kendra Bancroft: okay –what I’d like to see is a huge pavillion in the Mrktplatz with architectural models of future builds
Eugene Pomeray: yes! 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: and smaller tents all through the streets selling Expo only items
Gwyneth Llewelyn: During the EXPO, you mean?
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah – ok.
Kendra Bancroft: the idea of items that are limited in number being a sales point
Pendari: great idea!
Kendra Bancroft: also free food areas
Sudane Erato: interesting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What are “Expo only items”? (sorry to be interrupting all the time 😛 )
Kendra Bancroft: pretzels beer knockwurst
Garnet Psaltery: nice idea – how do we make sur epeople don’t get lost?
Kendra Bancroft: expo only –meaning after the expo they will no longer be for sale
Kendra Bancroft: the tents will all match
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the Expo will offer only Expo only items, and no other items at all?
Kendra Bancroft: and they will be clustered around the Platz –but also set up along streets
Kendra Bancroft: So the Guild needs to build matching small tents , a huge pavillion (tent) and architectural models of major builds to come
Eugene Pomeray: well i have booths
Eugene Pomeray: they mght be a it large
Eugene Pomeray: though
Pendari: ack
Kendra Bancroft: there is already a small Schloss model in my toyshoppe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: Eugene!
Sudane Erato: whew!
Eugene Pomeray: ah great 🙂
Pendari: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I saw the Schloss model 🙂 It’s cute 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: the idea is to make N’burg a BIG attraction during labor day weekend
Pendari: well.. I would think the current shops could still sell their items.. just the stuff in the booths/tents would be EXPO only items?
Sudane Erato: Great!
Garnet Psaltery: what date is that?
Kendra Bancroft: we need volunteer “event hosts” in N’burg costuming
Pendari: The Expo is on Labor day weekend??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just for the record for us Euros (we celebrate labour day on May, 1st) – when again is the US Labour day?
Sudane Erato: Sept 3/4
Kendra Bancroft: I’d li8ke it to be
Pendari: *cry*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thank you
Kendra Bancroft: but it doesn’t have to be
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: but it should take place over several days
Kendra Bancroft: perhaps even a week
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Garnet Psaltery: wjy then?
Sudane Erato: yes… more days would be better
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A week would be great (I’m thinking *events* of course 😉 )
Sudane Erato: sure
Pendari: ok.. as of right now.. I *may* not be here Labor Day weekend.. but that will *probably* fall through and I”ll be able to be here =)
Kendra Bancroft: like I say doesn’t have to be –but I’d like a Linden presence here before they judge the german welcome area contest on Sept 9th
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Garnet Psaltery: ah that makes sense
Sudane Erato: ahh, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s *clever*, Kendra 😉
Sudane Erato: and thats another great idea
Eugene Pomeray: maybe even video linden 😉
Kendra Bancroft: that’s me –clever
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It surely is, Sudane & Kendra.
Pendari: if I’m here, I’d like to offer to do one of my “original’s only auctions” during the event.. but that may be something I need to mention at the guild meeting..
Sudane Erato: hmmmmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Kendra Bancroft: we need exposure –the German welcome area will be good for us, frankly, whether we get the gig or not
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, in that case, I’d suggest starting the Expo on 3/4 September and go throughout the week until the 9th.
Garnet Psaltery: sounds good
Sudane Erato: sounds good
Kendra Bancroft: I would agree, Gwynn
Pendari: sounds good to me
Kendra Bancroft: and that also gives me enough time to build –if the RA acts quickly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the next RA meeting will be held in German, with English subtitles? 😉
Pendari: and I’d be happy to be on any advertising committee =)
Sudane Erato: lol
Pendari: lol Gwyn
Sudane Erato: nooooooooo
Kendra Bancroft: we’re already in subtitles silly
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That *was* the joke 😛
Satchmo Prototype: Kendra is there any financial issues regarding compensating the guild for thier work?
Satchmo Prototype: on the Expo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, anyway – not bad, we have, place, time, some guidelines. Now, budget 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari: Ok. The EXPO is not going to be a lasting build. Therefore, I would propose that the budget for it mostly include the cost of the tents and the advertising?
Kendra Bancroft: we should pay event hosts –and cover time and texture costs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, pen.
Pendari: oh yes and hosts
Sudane Erato: makes sense
Kendra Bancroft: The RA should as tourist board take care of adverts
Pendari: true
Satchmo Prototype: indeed
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Pendari: we may not even have to budget for the advertising if we leave it strictly to the RA
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild just makes it all pretty
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Kendra Bancroft: and we should set up a donate to the city fountain
Satchmo Prototype: Pendari, maybe a citizen action group could help advertise
Pendari: yes.. great idea Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm good idea!
Kendra Bancroft: in the middle of the platz
Eugene Pomeray: yes, i think we should have city gardens as well…
Pendari: that is a good idea too Satch! A volunteer committee of citizens outside the RA that would like to help advertise voluntarily
Kendra Bancroft: it would be easy enough for me to build a fountain “tip jar”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Satchmo, I agree. Anyway, there is “informal advertising”, which is called “evangelisation” 🙂 and is for free.
Satchmo Prototype: I think the RA should stick to free advertising methods
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But there are other types of advertising… at SL Exchange, at Metadverse, the SL messenger or whatever that newspaper is called….
Pendari: haha.. well.. I know it will be in my forum sig.. as I’m a posting fiend :-p
Sudane Erato: that would be great, if possible
Satchmo Prototype: and allow outside citizen groups to spread the word when it costs moneycolor=#777777
Kendra Bancroft: the best thing about the fountain is that the dollar amount is transparent –and the money goes to the fountain instead of an individual
Eugene Pomeray: i’ll help pay for the advertisements 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: who empties the fountain?
Pendari: I like that idea Kendra
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I think I can exchange “work”for some ad space in the newspapers, at least…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just need someone to make a nice banner for me 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: If the City has no objection –I’d like the fountain to be set up to deliver donation to the Guild for infrastructure
Kendra Bancroft: and let the Guild set it up in the platz
Pendari: and I can get some of my DJ friends to probably mention it on air some! and if we get some signs, I’m sure I can get a few friends to put them in their shops (as I’ve done for them in the past) =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, I object, actually – that way, we cannot list that income in the overall accouting system.
Garnet Psaltery: will the maypole come down to make room for it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be awesome, pen 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It’s Guild income –the Guild would pay a tax on the fountain
Sudane Erato: well, the Guild paying a tax would be irregular
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, hmm – well, perhaps, Kendra. Let me think a bit on that.
Satchmo Prototype: we can give it to the city as city revenue from the fountain
Satchmo Prototype: and pay the guild 100% of that revenue at the beginning of every month
Satchmo Prototype: so it shows up in the ledger
Kendra Bancroft: It would be clearly marked
Pendari: the guild paying tax doesn’t *have* to be irregular though =)
Eugene Pomeray: this is a werid idea, but it is possible … how about german folk dacing (or some other active event) every sunday in the platz to attract visitors
Garnet Psaltery: nice idea Satchmo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But kendra was suggesting an easy way to get the Guild some direct income, which I don’t oppose as a principle.
Sudane Erato: I agree
Kendra Bancroft: The city gets a beautiful fountain
Pendari: I agree
Sudane Erato: Satch’s idea is good
Kendra Bancroft: I could easily just do this in Altenburg
Sudane Erato: sounds bureaucratic… biut it makes sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I prefer Satchmo’s approach, actually.
Kendra Bancroft: But I offer this to the City so they can get taxes
Sudane Erato: sure..
Garnet Psaltery: I think there’d be more room for dancing outside the Platz
Satchmo Prototype: I don’t even think the city should take taxes
Kendra Bancroft: If I set up the same fountain in Altenburg –I’d be tax free
Garnet Psaltery: th fountain belongs in the platz traditionally
Satchmo Prototype: 100% to the guild
Satchmo Prototype: but the city has to start paying the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It does.
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Kendra Bancroft: How about this
Pendari: I’m thinking a fountain in the platz would be a great addition to the city
Satchmo Prototype: yea that’s certain, a fountain would rock 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild collects 100% of the donations oin the price of a fountain build –until it meets it’s price for the build
Kendra Bancroft: then it reverts to the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is a *great* suggestion!
Kendra Bancroft: and the city can collect
Sudane Erato: well, that makes perfect sense
Garnet Psaltery: yes
Pendari: I can agree to that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on that 😉
Satchmo Prototype: me too
Satchmo Prototype: aye
Eugene Pomeray: me too 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: great!
Garnet Psaltery: can we have a good number of prims for the fountain so it looks excellent?
Satchmo Prototype: ok so we set the foundation for a Expo Comittee to run away with this
Kendra Bancroft: I promise the City will gain a beautiful beautiful fountain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, as the fountain will cost L$35,053,177 to build… that means… hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: lol Gwyn
Sudane Erato: very precise 🙂
Pendari: lol Gwyn
Kendra Bancroft: The fountain will actually cost 10K
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And 2 Linden cents 😉
Pendari: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: It’s gonna be scripted
Sudane Erato: 10K is good
Pendari: I can’t wait to see it! =)
Garnet Psaltery: I’mhoping we can have a proper statue on the top
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok – it’s great that Kendra is not always joking, unlike myself 😉 Ok 10 K is fine.
Sudane Erato: of who ?
Kendra Bancroft: I’ve already been working on a statue of Bavaria
Satchmo Prototype: is the Tini city permenant?
Satchmo Prototype: lots of prims in the Platz already
Sudane Erato: who was Bavaria?
Satchmo Prototype: but it’s obviously the spot for a fountain
Garnet Psaltery: well ffountains have a statue on teh top usually I believe
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm yes, that’s a problem indeed. But the Tiny City attracts visitors…
Satchmo Prototype: still?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As for the statue… hehehe…. wellllll
Pendari: we should make a statue of OMG! I fogot his name.. the Linden who helped us get started on the project
Sudane Erato: I’d like to see the Cupids peeing in the water
Kendra Bancroft: That’s the beauty –I can work very low prim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Haney Linden.
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll keep the fountain well under 50 prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: sweet
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari: lol
Pendari: there ya go
Eugene Pomeray: excellent
Satchmo Prototype: ok moving along the agenda?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Pendari: Expo covered for now?
Sudane Erato: well.. the next agenda items are various builds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh – btw, have we all the names for the committee on the Expo yet?
Eugene Pomeray: well for the expo and the liinden contest i propose a Neualtenburg Beautification project
Kendra Bancroft: as soon as the RA votes me a budget –I’ll get to work on assigning guild members tasks
Sudane Erato: shall we ask to receive actual proposals… with budgets, for them?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I would prefer that, Sundane.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
Kendra Bancroft: excellent idea, Sudane
Pendari: sounds good Sudane
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Pendari: start with the EXPO budget
Pendari: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll work up costs on the tents and pavillions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Kendra.
Sudane Erato: the expo budget… we must have a proposal
Sudane Erato: can’t make it up
Kendra Bancroft: obviously the small tent is just step and repeat
Pendari: true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that you should definitely be part of the committee as well, Kendra….
Sudane Erato: yes, of course
Kendra Bancroft: But the Pavillin should be grande
Pendari: Kendra.. can you get an expo propsal cost before the end of this meeting? haha
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Kendra Bancroft: actually –I could
Sudane Erato: good
Eugene Pomeray: 😀
Pendari: ok.. then we could budget for the other builds in the meantime =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, wonderful 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, we can move on… 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft
of the Guild approving buildings inside the City walls. Sudane Erato: good Pen Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whew, whew, Pen, the SC won’t like that. Sudane Erato: hehe Pendari: I hate the thought of ammending the constitution, so a bill would allow us some flexibility Kendra Bancroft: I can do that Kendra Bancroft: for one –too many scripts Sudane Erato: the standrads must be enforced all over, not just inside Kendra Bancroft: it lags the marktplatz Gwyneth Llewelyn: because the aesthetical principles for the buildings are the province of the Guild, not of the RA Garnet Psaltery: yes! Pendari: The SC may be more in favor of a bill than anything touching the constitution though Gywn =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, there is nothing to prevent the RA to make *suggestions* 🙂 Garnet Psaltery: lag city Pendari: I agree Sudane Kendra Bancroft: There is also nothing preventing the Guild from deciding what is or is not a Guild approved structure Satchmo Prototype: Kendra I could help write scripting policies Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Kendra – I think that both the Secret Tiny City and the Casino have too many scripts:P Pendari: true Kendra Gwyneth Llewelyn: And precisely, Kendra. Gwyneth Llewelyn: No matter what the RA says 😛 Pendari: lol Kendra Bancroft: I would appreciate that, Satch Garnet Psaltery: what worries me about the tiny city is that it is what people think is there when they arrive at the hub Satchmo Prototype: as a guildmember for the guild of course I mean Kendra Bancroft: I know, Satch –we’ll talk about that at the Guild meeting Sudane Erato: Can we resolve this topiC? Pendari: really? I always see the church first when I hub in Sudane Erato: hmmm Garnet Psaltery: I mean the location at trhe top of the screen Satchmo Prototype: Sudane break it down into smaller bits Pendari: Ok. Sudane Kendra Bancroft: that’s another thing –I’d really like to knock down the prim count on that church Kendra Bancroft: It’s insane Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh no, you too, Kendra 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn *rolls up her sleeves* Sudane Erato: we need these things as proposals Pendari: haha.. yeah.. but I guess we can bring that up at the Guild meeting Kendra Bancroft: I can make it look better with half the prims, Gwyn Sudane Erato: a free-ramging discussion will not accomplish action Kendra Bancroft: and you wouldn’t even notice Garnet Psaltery: what is the topic? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve heard many architects saying the same, Kendra 😉 But yes, let’s talk it over at the Guild meeting…color=#777777 Satchmo Prototype: I agree Sudane Pendari: Yes. The RA needs to give the Guild a list of the builds we need budget propsals for Sudane Erato: yes, thats one Sudane Erato: 2 Sudane Erato: that there be stabndards developed by the guild to apply to private builds Kendra Bancroft: yes –and I’m asking the RA to consider a church refit in the proposal Sudane Erato: and 3 Pendari: noted Kendra Sudane Erato: that the discussion of private vs public land be held Sudane Erato: ie should the MOCA be private, etc Sudane Erato: thats 3 topics Kendra Bancroft: MOCA private? Kendra Bancroft: why? Garnet Psaltery: I’d like to subscriptions for builds liek the MoCA Garnet Psaltery: to see Pendari: Ok. The first .. We need a list of builds to give the Guild so they can give us proposals. Sudane Erato: that an interest group, under frnchise from the city, own the MOCA Pendari: Someone in the RA want to make a notecard as we list the builds? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s part of the MPP’s program, Kendra 😉 Sudane Erato: its a proposal Kendra Bancroft: again –why? Sudane Erato: to be discussed Kendra Bancroft: I don’t see why you would disenfranchise the Guild that way Sudane Erato: this is not the time I suggest we discuss this Garnet Psaltery: I see it as a way to provide quality builds without asking a lot of money from poorer individuals Kendra Bancroft: This IS the time Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, the MoCA being private does not “disinfranchise” the Guild in any way, since it’s highly likely that only the Guild will build it, not run it. Kendra Bancroft: it’s at the heart of my strike Dianne Mechanique: isnt the issue about running the Moca not building it privately> Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also agree with Kendra, we *should* decide upon the model. Sudane Erato: the overwhelming requirement of the City is to generate funds to survive Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Dianne. Pendari: I personally think it should be up to the guild to take propsals from private interest groups to run the _MoCHA. That Group would fall under the guild until the MoCA because the property of the city. At which time the City could try for a different Sudane Erato: the proposal to “privatize” some areas goes to that purpose Pendari: interest group, or work on a budge for the current group running it Sudane Erato: a group will have it in their interest to generate the funds for their land Kendra Bancroft: No! The MOCA is an art’s center –and you would deprive N’burg’s own citizens of haviung the only art’s center in N’burg go to private interests Sudane Erato: that is the “why” Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hey, Pen, that’s not what your party’s program says 😉 Kendra Bancroft: I can’t even understand the logic Kendra Bancroft: It’s an insult to the artist citizens of N’burg and the Guild Sudane Erato: please Kendra Bancroft: it’s like you think we’re just construction crew Dianne Mechanique: maybe the MPP should make a concrete proposal Dianne Mechanique: and we discuss it then Kendra Bancroft: don’t “please” me Garnet Psaltery: I don’t see it that wayu Sudane Erato: exactly Sudane Erato: thats what I proposed Sudane Erato: which is why it is not ready to be talked about Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Pendari: Well Gwyn.. I like the ultimate goal of that.. but I still want it to fall under Guild before it becomes a private person running their things Garnet Psaltery: I’m thinking of a long tradition in the UK for example of the general public giving money to a project for the use of all Kendra Bancroft: That’s like saying we should have the RA be private owners Eugene Pomeray: sorry, back Kendra Bancroft: and outsource the government Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was just teasing you, Pendari 😉 That was just a political maneuver 😉 Kendra Bancroft: Either this government is for it’s citizens first –or it isn’t Garnet Psaltery: I agree it is – I am only concerned that people without uch money shold nt have to fork out a lot for evetything Sudane Erato: these are slogans Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in any case, the SDF, which doesn’t have a majority, will never agree to have in-wall city structures run by anyone who isn’t a citizen Kendra Bancroft: and if it MUST be private –thn I would least hope that the RA gives the Guild first refusal on ownership Kendra Bancroft: The Guild can buy it as a corporation Sudane Erato: ahhh, that would be interesting… Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is more like it. Garnet Psaltery: yes Garnet Psaltery: it certainly shoul dbe a matter for citizens only Sudane Erato: then the Guild will pay the monthly fee for it Pendari: for the record, I would say that I think the MPP does seriuosly need to get together and hash over the platform. There was not a *ton* of time before the election. And I agree with Sundane and other MPP members that our platform is something we will Sudane Erato: like everyone else Pendari: discuss not at this meeting =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: I will also insist a bit that *any* group owning “privatized” infrastructure has at *least* one Guild member. Kendra Bancroft: I’ll bring the idea to the Guild Garnet Psaltery: so what has been decided? Kendra Bancroft: But I do hope that the RA gives The Guild first refusal Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I. Neoteny Hermes: Eugene is sitting on top of the clock, if anyone is interested. Sudane Erato: I suspect I do too Garnet Psaltery: time out? Kendra Bancroft: it vibrates every fifteen minutes Pendari: LOL Sudane Erato: hehe… Pendari: may I request a 5 minute recess? Sudane Erato: sure Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, this also means that the RA has to set in their budget how much return it expects to have from several structures, and that is for me the key issue (since it means budgeting for wh
at we want to have in the city) Pendari: and good point Gwyn! Garnet Psaltery: good ideacolor=#777777color=#777777 Kendra Bancroft: in the meantime –The Guild can set up the infrastructure of the EXPO for 5K plus 10% of the gross Kendra Bancroft: But is needed for the City –badly Sudane Erato: Kendra, how will the transactions happen… ie the 10%? Kendra Bancroft: honor system is good enough for the Guild Sudane Erato: the vendors will all be private? Kendra Bancroft: If we can set up City vendors all the better –but Ulrika would need to do that Sudane Erato: yes, she would Kendra Bancroft: aand I think she’s in baby land Sudane Erato: yes Kendra Bancroft: I’m a gypsy Garnet Psaltery: have we started again? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pen is not back yet…. Sudane Erato: so… I can certainly agree with that budget Eugene Pomeray: may i ask what i am stuck in Dianne Mechanique: anyone know if ulrika is acaully in the hospital? Dianne Mechanique: or having the baby? Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t know, but she’s due any day now… Kendra Bancroft: The private Guild treasury is kept by my alt “Sissie Maracas” Sudane Erato: ok Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is Pen back? Sudane Erato: Kendra, we should have a little document… Sudane Erato: the Rudeen cab “Pay” Sissie Kendra Bancroft: I agree, Sudane Pendari: back.. sorry.. Pendari: can I request the floor for a minute? Sudane Erato: sure Kendra Bancroft: Or I can just set up a tip jar that keeps the money displayed Pendari: I would really like to give my nutshell opinion which I think stands behind the RA, The Guild, the Constitution and my party.. Pendari: On this issue.. Kendra Bancroft: and you can pay the tipjar Pendari: I think the guild should set the standards as we talked about earlier. A proposal of those standards to be presnted to the RA.. Kendra Bancroft: I have one that actually holds the money until an authorized owner empties it Pendari: I also think that any builds deemed by the RA as absolutely needed by the city should be done by the guild Pendari: However, I think any other builds not deemed NEEDED can be private run as long as they fall under the approved standards Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Sudane Erato: good Kendra Bancroft: agreed, Pendari Garnet Psaltery: agree Pendari: I think this would allow the city flexibility and not compromise the guild Honey Ingmann: personally i think sims that are zoned and have coordinated bulding look so much better than the ones that don’t Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, I can definitely agree on *that* 🙂 Kendra Bancroft: TY, Honey Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and I agree with you, Honey, hehe – or I wouldn’+t be here at all 🙂 ) Honey Ingmann: : ) Kendra Bancroft: I’m just pissed that everyone looks better in my clothes than I do Honey Ingmann: lol Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pendari: I honestly think in that way we can combine the deeds, the private ownership “I want to be my own business person”, the look of the sim, and the needs of the city by the RA all in one Sudane Erato: thats great Pendari… Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh Pendari: whew.. thank you for letting me get that out =) Sudane Erato: can we all agree on her motion? Garnet Psaltery: yes Kendra Bancroft: yes –I agree, Pendari –that’s marvelous Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on that. Sudane Erato: great… Satchmo Prototype: Aye Kendra Bancroft: I can’t vote on the motion –but “Aye” in spirit Pendari: hehe Sudane Erato: I propose that we adjourn and continue at the enxt emmeting Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉 Sudane Erato: the Guild mtg is in 30 min Kendra Bancroft: good –that gives me a half hour break before the Guild meeting Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs* Kendra Bancroft: In the Gasthaus next to the canal Yogeswari Padar: sudane, can anyhone attend the guild meeting? Gwyneth Llewelyn: I disagree on the proposal, but I’m just one vote 😉 Kendra Bancroft: anyone Sudane Erato: thats Kendras question Pendari: I would say aye Sudane.. but I think we need to assign someone to collect a list of builds by the RA to go ahead and give to the guild so that we can get them working on proposals before the next meeting? Satchmo Prototype: yea no real voting happened today Sudane Erato: hmmmm Kendra Bancroft: The Guild is open to all citizens of Neualtenburg Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks pen. I actually wished to have that decided as well. Satchmo Prototype: just show of support Yogeswari Padar: good, thanks 🙂 Gwyneth Llewelyn: I disagree, Satchmo 😛 Sudane Erato: i think the list needs to be discussed Satchmo Prototype: though we decided we wern’t voting today, lol Sudane Erato: well, we did Pendari: lol Kendra Bancroft: discuss away –but we have agreed on the EXPO budget yes? Sudane Erato: but todays proceedings are informal Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, Sudane, but we should set limits. I mean, in one week, with 17 or so people, we can come up with 2,000 proposals and ideas 😛 Kendra Bancroft: and the dates? Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Kendra’s questions! Sudane Erato: Kendra, yes… Sudane Erato: I think we have Pendari: I propose the builds in the agenda be the only ones we vote on today Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope there is no “yes, but…” in there. Pendari: as to just going on the list for the Guild Garnet Psaltery: what’s left int eh agenda? Kendra Bancroft: when the RA decides on the dates –I will at least amend my EXPO poster Pendari: you can get a copy of the agenda from the penguin =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Left: the election system, recruitment & events… Kendra Bancroft: so e-mail me with that decision when it’s reached Sudane Erato: the dates you have suggested are good ones Pendari: haha.. look at all the streams Kendra Bancroft: okay –I’ll go with those Garnet Psaltery: rather too muhc for today perhaps>? Sudane Erato: I think thats safe… there are no disagreements Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂 Pendari: yes.. I say lets stick with those dates.. we need *something* to be definite.. hehe Sudane Erato: 🙂 Sudane Erato: yes Sudane Erato: and the budget is good too Kendra Bancroft: great Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I agree again that we have agreed on the dates before, and so don’t need to agree any more on that. Agreed? Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉 Kendra Bancroft: Now I have a second topic for the Guild meeting 🙂 Satchmo Prototype: I agree Gwyn 🙂 Garnet Psaltery: Sudane what do you think we can cover now? Pendari: ok.. can I propose that since most can not be here next week. that the RA spend the next couple of days in emails discussing the builds on the Agenda for which ones we want to get proposals from the guild on? Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds reasonable, Pendari. Sudane Erato: yes Pen Pendari: and get a definite vote by say Wednesday? then the list can be given to the guild before the next RA meeting? Kendra Bancroft: yes –it does Sudane Erato: OK Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the mean time, and off the record, Kendra *does* already have some cost estimates on *some* of the buildings Kendra Bancroft: yes –and a agreement on the fountain I assume Pendari: yes Garnet Psaltery: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes 🙂 Sudane Erato: yes Kendra Bancroft: 10K cap on donations –the The Guild gives it to the city Sudane Erato: yes Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* Sudane Erato: shall we adjourn? Garnet Psaltery: YES! Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Sudane Erato: hehe Pendari: i’m in aye that other agenda items be moved to next meeting =) Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do we need to agree as well? 😉 Kendra Bancroft: yeah –I need to strecth my legs before the Gilde meeting Sudane Erato: yes Pen
Pendari: and personally I expected this meeting to go long being the first one.. hehe.. I think everyone did a great job and I’m so glad the whole RA was here! =)RA Meeting: September 11, 2005
RA Meeting: September 18, 2005
Region: Neualtenburg (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (174, 165, 172)
Meeting on 2005-09-18
Those present:
Pendari Lorentz is in the chair.
Sudane Erato: recorder is on
Pendari Lorentz: Alright.. thank you! =)
Pendari Lorentz: Welcome RA members and fellow citizens =)
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: before we begin today’s meeting.. I wanted to issue a
statement based on something I have been witnessing at past RA meetings
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
Kendra Bancroft: okay I’ll stop making bitchy jokes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Pendari Lorentz: We are here today to discuss issues that pertain to
the RA. All of us that are in the RA also happen to be in the
Neualtenburg Guild
Pendari Lorentz: there is often a fine line we have to draw between
what is an RA issue, and what is a guild issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Pendari Lorentz: to use an example .. I will refer to an item on
today’s agenda.
Kendra Bancroft: Oh just surrender the City to me
Kendra Bancroft: It will all go much smoother
Aliasi Stonebender: well
Aliasi Stonebender: it would certainly give me something to do. the
problem is, we don’t have a convient forest for me to retreat to for
gurilla warfare. *g*
Pendari Lorentz: One of the roles of the RA is to promote the city. If
we feel there is Lag in the city, we need to address the Guild and
request from them ways to deal with the lag. In other words, the RA’s role
is to see the issue and delegate it to the guild. The
Pendari Lorentz: Guild is responsible for the specifics of HOW it will
be done.
Sudane Erato: makes sense
Pendari Lorentz: so the RA meeting would not be used to go over our
ideas of how to handle that lag. We would save those ideas for guild
meetings.
Kendra Bancroft: I have been saying this for months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
Pendari Lorentz: I say this only because I want RA members to keep this
in mind as we proceed through our agenda. =)
Pendari Lorentz: Does anyone object to what I have stated? Or need
further clarification?
Kendra Bancroft: Things in the Guild are much smoother now that I have
Ulrika organizing Guild issues
Sudane Erato: I agree with it
Satchmo Prototype: I agree as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely correct 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees as well.
Pendari Lorentz: Welcome Eugene =)
Sudane Erato: welcome Eugene!
Kendra Bancroft: Did everyone in the RA get my e-mails by the way?
Sudane Erato: I did
Satchmo Prototype: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I have my Mail program off, Kendra 😛
Pendari Lorentz: Would someone be kind enough to cut and paste into an
IM to Eugene what I just stated.. =)
Pendari Lorentz: it is on the Agenda Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: if you do not yet have an agenda for today. Please
click the Penguin =)
Kendra Bancroft: Oh Eugene? You are on the Schloss comittee now?
fantastic
Eugene Pomeray: ok 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Moving on to the first Agenda Item: 1. Proposal
for addition to RA Procedures for Meetings
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: thoughts on this proposal?
Eugene Pomeray: i like the chalet btw 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I think it is well needed
Sudane Erato: the addition makes a lot of sense
Sudane Erato: I think the only snafu will be making the decision which
technique will be used
Pendari Lorentz: Personally.. I think if even one RA member thinks we
need the 7 days on the vote, then we go to the 7 days
Kendra Bancroft: I propose mandatory laughter when I make snide
comments
Sudane Erato: I propose no snide comments
Pendari Lorentz: in other words.. I would have to be unanimous that we
are ready to vote *right then*
Sudane Erato: yes Pen
Kendra Bancroft: 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: that makes sense
Pendari Lorentz: It*
Satchmo Prototype: agreed
Sudane Erato: so, with that addition…
Sudane Erato: we all agree?
Pendari Lorentz: Eugene.. would have to say yes for it to take affect
immediatly =)
Pendari Lorentz: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor Eugene… he’s probably again on a very bad
connection 🙁
Eugene Pomeray: i agree 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!
Pendari Lorentz: excellent!
Pendari Lorentz: *channeled Merwan -*
Eugene Pomeray: the connection is very bad :/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
Pendari Lorentz: alright Eugene. I have a feeling our biggest votes of
the day will be moved to 7 days. So hopefully you will not lose any
input =)
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda Item One: Proposal approved. Moving on to next
Agenda item if no further comments
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go on 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, go on
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda Item 2. Vote on Rental Chalets during Holiday
Season Proposal (was proposed last RA Meeting)
Pendari Lorentz: We sort of forgot to vote on this the past week .. My
fault more than anyones
Sudane Erato: I will make the point that outside thw walls land is
going very fast
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I miss the dates and duration of the rentals,
but I still agree on them on principle.
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Eugene Pomeray: yes me too
Sudane Erato: the proposed lots are still available
Sudane Erato: but if there is pressure… that people want to buy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
Sudane Erato: what should we do?
Eugene Pomeray: in addition to the chalet we should add few things as
well
Kendra Bancroft: I’d like to know as soon as possible –because if it
is not possible in Neualtenburg, I will do this rental chalet thingie in
Isenland instead
Pendari Lorentz: Yes. We actually had a person interested in deeding
that land yesterday (a visitor of the expo).. so the question came up. Do
we say yes to the Rental Chalets proposal, but perhaps understand that
it may need to be in a different location?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes on that.
Sudane Erato: there are only I think 4 outside lots left
Sudane Erato: the different location may then not be Neualt
Kendra Bancroft: I only require 4 512 plots
Pendari Lorentz: Kendra.. has the guild given thought to building up?
Pendari Lorentz: meaning perhaps, adding a ramp to what looks like a
hill.. that sits above land already owned by the guild
Kendra Bancroft: building up?
Pendari Lorentz: that could be used for the Chalets?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … only 4 left? wow….
Pendari Lorentz: to do a nice setting for the Chalets
Eugene Pomeray: the land right below the walls could be used as chalet
area
Kendra Bancroft: The Gild owns no land
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, the outside is filling up quick.
Pendari Lorentz: that was the original spot requested Eugene.. But that
was also the spot someoen asked about getting deeded
Sudane Erato: the land right below the walls are lots 290 and 300
Eugene Pomeray: ah
Pendari Lorentz: hmm.. yes.. You are right Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: and my ideas are more a guild issue
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. RA members. Let the guild work out the details on
how and where. But do we as the RA approve this Proposal otherwise?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: dates!
Sudane Erato: I would say approve it in such a way that land sales
comes first
Eugene Pomeray: i say yes 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Pendari Lorentz: I agree Sudane
Sudane Erato: if land is available then ok
Kendra Bancroft: How we can do –where is up to the RA
Kendra Bancroft: and yes –sales are priority always
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry to repeat myself… hehe
Sudane Erato: so, how can it be worded so sales are a priority?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need somehow to set dates, and periods
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Then I propose that the RA accepts the proposal of
“What will be done”, and over the next 7 days come up with our
“conditions” for the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I can agree on that 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although not much is to be discussed…
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. true.
Kendra Bancroft: I am proposing a 4 month lease o November thru March
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can do weekly rentals… so the worse case
scenario is having someone who has to wait one week for a sale.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Noted, Kendra!
Pendari Lorentz: but it will probably be easier for us all if we can
put our thoughts down in an email
Sudane Erato: no, gwyn, cause the rental lots may not coincide with the
for sale lots
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Sudane Erato: yes… the email
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If there is no overlap, ok
Pendari Lorentz: that would be part of the “conditions” we would work
on for the guild Gwyneth =)
Satchmo Prototype: what would the price of the rentals be?
Satchmo Prototype: compared to lost revenue on land rent?
Kendra Bancroft: I am thinking of 500 Lindens a month
Pendari Lorentz: I beleive last meeting it was stated $250L per month?
Pendari Lorentz: ahh.. oh! the 50/50 split is what I forgot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: inflation 🙂 hehe
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. so $500L per month.. split between Guild and
city
Kendra Bancroft: No –I didn’t build the split into my suggestion last
week
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: with Gildemeister receiving 10% of the Guild income
for the duration
Kendra Bancroft: yes
Kendra Bancroft: So I would get 25 indens a month
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Pendari Lorentz: hey.. it adds up! =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: heh maybe we can put it up on the MoCA hill if it’s
not build yet 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Pendari Lorentz: Ok.. Action on this Agenda item: RA likes the proposal
of the Rental Chalets, but would like a 7 day period to discuss
“conditions” that we think will be needed for the city.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not bad idea… 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: The whole point of a acation chalet is to be outside
the city
Sudane Erato: good Pen
Satchmo Prototype: heh good point Kendra 😉
Pendari Lorentz: If no objections to that Action. We will move on to
the next Agenda Item
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: as you can see by the roof –it’s designed for winter
Eugene Pomeray: can i add something to the agenda?
Pendari Lorentz: Is it an item that relates to something already on the
Agenda Eugene?
Sudane Erato: otherwise it must be given to Pen before
Kendra Bancroft: The chalets will be identical in form –but not
texture –four models –the eagle, dragon, swan and penguin
Kendra Bancroft: I mean chicken
Pendari Lorentz: If not, we can vote to include it today, or have it
wait till next week. As
Eugene Pomeray: ok
Pendari Lorentz: per the RA procedures (and I know you have been having
computer issues.. so I’m flexible if others are) =)
Kendra Bancroft: On the floor right now is the Eagle
Tai Tuppakaka: Chicken? Hehe.
Kendra Bancroft: Chicken is our national bird
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed 🙂
Sudane Erato: could we keep to the topic of the agneda?
Eugene Pomeray: sure
Pendari Lorentz: While Eugene types his request.. Lets move on to the
next Agenda item
Kendra Bancroft: I’m just giving data to inform the vote –I thot I was
on agenda
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda Item 3. Proposal to request from Guild a list
of ways they are going to improve upon the current City Lag situation.
Guild would need to include in their list any items that may need RA
approval (ie Builds the RA has in the past deemed “Needed fo
Kendra Bancroft: my apologies
Pendari Lorentz: r the City”)
Eugene Pomeray: well, i think we could discuss business in Neualtenburg
Pendari Lorentz: Oh my.. haha.. Eugene. Let’s put that on the next
agenda =)
Eugene Pomeray: like business area or street
Eugene Pomeray: ok sure
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: Lag
Pendari Lorentz: because I do think it is something we should talk
about.. but would be better if we could get our thoughts together before
hand.. So proposal noted for next agenda! =)
Eugene Pomeray: ok 🙂
Sudane Erato: ok
Pendari Lorentz: Ok.. Lag. Current issue. Proposal to have Guild list
ways they are going to improve on this issue.
Pendari Lorentz: thoughts?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, basically, what I see is that all the work is
going to be dropped unto the Guild 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) See what causes lag
Pendari Lorentz: hahaha
Satchmo Prototype: vote today
Sudane Erato: this is a reqyuest to the guild?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Give us a suggestion on how to improve it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: While we patiently wait.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, since the EXPO has started…
Pendari Lorentz: Honestly. Yes. Though. I believe we as the RA can
refuse to pay the guild if they do not adhere to the standards we agreed on
=)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either we decide some of those lag-reducing issues
today – or we need an extraordinary meeting during the weekend.
Pendari Lorentz: But in the end. It is the Guild that sets the
standards we approve
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I meant during the weekDAYS, sorry)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’m just making my point 🙂 hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Feel free to disagree;)
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I think this should be revisited at the end of the
agenda
Satchmo Prototype: because moving the tiny and casino could go a long
way
Satchmo Prototype: adn those are the next issues
Pendari Lorentz: It is NOT the RA’s job to deal with the creative side
of the city. That is for our Guild. We can only tell them things are
hurting the city, and ask them to fix it
Satchmo Prototype: then just general community awareness
Satchmo Prototype: not all citizens are guild members
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Pendari Lorentz: if they refuse. Then we have other actions we can take
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Pendari Lorentz: No they are not Satch. But. The Guild sets the
standards for what is acceptable. The RA can dispute those standards and have
the Guild re-submit their plans
Satchmo Prototype: I see
Kendra Bancroft: Well let us know, I am appointing the lag job to Satch
Pendari Lorentz: This is where I was explaining that there is a fine
line between our Guild roles and RA roles =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, in any case the proposal is just to ask the Guild
to look into the issue 🙂 I think that at least we can vote on that.
Satchmo Prototype: sure
Pendari Lorentz: if I were speaking as a Guild member. I would say this
issue is our top priority and we need to start TODAY doing everything
we can to fix this issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I certainly vote “aye” on that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And aye on that as well, although I had to switch
hats 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah wait – I can’t vote on the Guild, lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: But as an RA member. This is an RA meeting. And we
have other issues to determine.
Sudane Erato: so what is the action?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, anyone is AGAINST the proposal to let the Guild
do whatever they can and as fast as they can to reduce lag? 😉
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. not me!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: I think thats fine… probably
Gwyneth Llewelyn: unanimous vote on that? 😉
Satchmo Prototype: I vote yes on that
Pendari Lorentz: the Action for this item. Vote: are we ready to vote
today that we want the Guild putting this as top priority for the city?
Sudane Erato: unless they set up armed roadblocks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes; yes; and yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Pendari Lorentz: if not ready to vote today. We move it to 7 days
discussion then vote
Sudane Erato: and restrict the rights of citizens
Sudane Erato: I’ll agree
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: That’s Bond’s department –she wants to be Polizei
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, no sense in postponing the vote.
Sudane Erato: I agree
Satchmo Prototype: yes, yes
Kendra Bancroft: It’s on you then, Satch –if you accept the job
Satchmo Prototype: yea sure things (says with guild hat on)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Alright. Vote for this Proposal. Gildemeister Kendra
is asked to present the RA with a list of ways the Guild is currently
working on to improve the lag situation. The RA holds this issue as a top
priority for the guild right now, and would like to see
Satchmo Prototype: now, first thing I do is take Sudanes suggestion and
set up armed roadblocks
Pendari Lorentz: immediate action on improving the Lag situation in the
city and valley if needed
Sudane Erato: agreed
Sudane Erato: without the roadfblocks
Gwyneth Llewelyn is thinking of starting an impeachment against Sudane
for proposing roadblocks and suggesting civil unrest 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I dismiss my impeachment suggestion then 😉
Sudane Erato: no//.. you got me wrong
Aliasi Stonebender: (ppst. Satchmo, we all fly here. BLOCK THESKIES!)
Pendari Lorentz: Stach.. Eugene?
Kendra Bancroft: Satch, that report better beon my desk by Monday
Morning –ya get me?
Pendari Lorentz: Satch too
Pendari Lorentz: all RA agree to that action?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: saying “yes, m’am” would be appropriate 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I agree
Satchmo Prototype: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Adn yes, Pendari, we all agree 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Eugene Pomeray: yes i do
Pendari Lorentz: Alright. Moving on to next Agenda Item =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew.
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: 4. Proposal to ask Guild to Take over Tiny City and
move it out of the Platz. Would require a submitted Proposal by the Guild
on their plans for the Tiny City and whether or not they would make it
a “private” guild build, or request funding from the city
Pendari Lorentz: 4. Proposal to ask Guild to Take over Tiny City and
move it out of the Platz. Would require a submitted Proposal by the Guild
on their plans for the Tiny City and whether or not they would make it
a “private” guild build, or request funding from the city
Pendari Lorentz: in any form.
Pendari Lorentz: sorry double paste *blush*
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: That’s already determined by the lag issue is it not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No worries, Pen, we may even forgive you that there
are two #4 items on the agenda and all 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: ROFL Gwyneth
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually they are two different things.
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As well as the Casino issue on point 4B 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: The Tinys HAVE to be moved –the RA must vote on to
where? And who will fund this projekt?
Eugene Pomeray: do we really need the tinys city?
Pendari Lorentz: Well.. It becomes an RA proposal because if we feel
the Tiny City is bringing money into the city. We may just want it
revamped rather than taken away.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Funding is either the RA’s job if the City will
sponsor it – or, as pen suggested, giving the Tiny Village over to the Guild
Sudane Erato: so store the tinies… that solves the lag issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I tend to agree with Sudane.
Pendari Lorentz: and yes. Should it be deemed NEEDED by the city. Or do
we want to say no funding and let a private citizen take it over
Satchmo Prototype: I’m with you Eugene
Sudane Erato: then it can be dtermined if they are rebuilt
Sudane Erato: and who pays
Satchmo Prototype: I’d rather forget about the tinie’s
Satchmo Prototype: that should be its own sim
Sudane Erato: me too!!
Kendra Bancroft: What the Guild proposes is simply subdividing a bunch
of lots –and let the Guild build a Tiny Zoned village
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Kendra Bancroft: The RA would be responsible for selling mini-property
Kendra Bancroft: in the same way they already sell propert
Eugene Pomeray: i think the outside will get too croweded then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, suggestion then… let the Guild remove the
Tiny City, keep it “on hold”, and suggest to us what they would like to do
with it. Or, if they don’t want to explore it, we could open it up to
the public.
Sudane Erato: yes Gwyn
Sudane Erato: I agree
Pendari Lorentz: I like that idea Gwyneth
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like Kendra’s plan.
Satchmo Prototype: me too
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t even want to think about a Tiny village till
we start Xmas
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Pendari Lorentz: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok!
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: The idea is to create a small Gingerbread Neualteburg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree then – let’s remove it, and re-discuss it
around Christmas.
Kendra Bancroft: and sell plots in it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hm Kendra 😉
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. a tiny city that comes and goes only with
special events!
Pendari Lorentz: ack! that’s guild talking
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: see! I’m bad too :-p
Kendra Bancroft: TinYs? should be a Christmas happening
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right.
Kendra Bancroft: and they should go away with Santa
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, can we agree that it should be removed out of the
Marktplatz immediately?
Satchmo Prototype: yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn prepares the bulldozer
Sudane Erato: yes.. agreed
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Kendra Bancroft: I propose the Expo grounds be the Xmas Tiny Village
Sudane Erato: use blasts
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Action Vote for this proposal: Have the Tiny City
removed. Have the Guild submit ideas for future use of the Tiny City.
Including if it will need to be funded by the Neualtenburg City or by a
private citizen. How votes the RA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on that.
Sudane Erato: the Expo grounds below to Eugene
Satchmo Prototype: YES
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Kendra Bancroft: exactly, Sudane
Kendra Bancroft: Eugene is also the main go to guy for Tinys to begin
with
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. This moves us on to the next Agenda Item. 4b as
the witty smartpooties put it earlier :-p
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Pendari Lorentz: 4. Proposal to allow the Casino to be taken over by a
Private Group. Discussion should inlude concerns of Lag that some
citizens have expressed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Pendari Lorentz: make sure you read the notecard under this proposal
Satchmo Prototype: I thnk most people agree the government shouldn’t be
in the casino buisness yes?
Satchmo Prototype: we just can’t do a good job at it
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: it should not be
Eugene Pomeray: very true
Kendra Bancroft: I believe Citizen Tai has some Casino concerns he may
wih to discuss , I for one would like to hear them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm the SDF does not agree entirely 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But as I said before, I won’t oppose the move to a
private group.
Pendari Lorentz: My only concern would be if the Casino was actually
making the city money . If not. Then the city stands to make more money
letting a private citizen deed the land and drawn in visitors
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m keeping all the options open.
Sudane Erato: the casino does not make money
Kendra Bancroft: But what if it did?
Satchmo Prototype: currently it doesn’t make money or dwell
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Aliasi Stonebender: If I may interject, I occasionally drop a few
lindens in there… and I think I’m the only one who ever does.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No money at all?
Eugene Pomeray: we couyld make it into an information center 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: *could
Pendari Lorentz: Yes. We need to decide. Is the Casino a Needed city
build?
Sudane Erato: if it did, it would be because of individual initiative
Pendari Lorentz: or just an attraction
Kendra Bancroft: May I?
Sudane Erato: the casino funds go to Uma… where I cannot decipher
them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, that’s another different issue, Sudane.
Pendari Lorentz: yes Kendra please
Sudane Erato: Uma yields perhaps 2 – 4 thousand per month
Kendra Bancroft: Currently the biergarten and the Casino are useless to
us
Kendra Bancroft: a big waste of property
Eugene Pomeray: i would like to keep the biergarten
Tai Tuppakaka: So would I
Eugene Pomeray: it is one of Neualtenburg’s oldest buildings
Eugene Pomeray: it should we deemed landmark 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I truly believe an upscale restaurant combined with a
posh European style Casini would be a huge draw
Pendari Lorentz: so very sorry.. I have history open.. RL milk spill
freak out.. brb!!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops poor Pendari….
Kendra Bancroft: The biergarten would remain essentially the same
–just re-decorated
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I was checking the statistics at the website
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really, the Casino is worthless 🙁
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: It is lovely I don’t think it should change much –but
I beleive it can serve a dual purpose
Kendra Bancroft: I imagine Monte Carlo with an outdoor bistro
Aliasi Stonebender: well, in my opinion, while there’sa neat historical
perspective to the current casino, that also means the games are boring
and suck, to put it bluntly.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, at least I hope you can fix the textures
blinking inside….
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: agreed, Aliasi
Tai Tuppakaka: How are measuring worth? Purely in terms of revenue? How
about in terms of ambience or civic contribution? Casino’s are base. No
matter how you dress them up. People aren’t going to come just because
it has a Monaco feel.
Kendra Bancroft: I just feel that the biergarten needs an upgrade –and
the Casino needs to be part of that upgrade
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Kendra Bancroft: I am measuring it in ambiance
Aliasi Stonebender: And I disagree that a casino must necessarily be
base and crass.
Sudane Erato: I measure only in revenue 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the truth is – we don’t need a Casino to make
us money
Gwyneth Llewelyn: By that I mean that the City has not run it
successfully 🙁
Sudane Erato: right
Tai Tuppakaka: I’m new, and I really don’t have a voice here, but I am
concerned about living next door to a casino, of any kind. And I just
want to state that for the record.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, I agree that the City is worthless at running
Casinos, lol
Kendra Bancroft: The Casino I envision is more of a retaurant with card
games
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Tai.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a good point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sl 1.7 will allow us to have “hidden” card games
Satchmo Prototype: Tai you have say… you vote for the RA next term
Satchmo Prototype: 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: back.. so very sorry
Pendari Lorentz: let me give my thoughts quickly on this proposal
Aliasi Stonebender: indeed. a good, REAL poker game I’d be interested
in, come 1.7. Poker’s more a game of skill than gambling in the long
run.
Kendra Bancroft: exactly, Aliasi
Satchmo Prototype: that’s what digi and I are currently working on 🙂
1.7 games
Eugene Pomeray: very sorry, everone i must go
Kendra Bancroft: I’d also like to see a blackjack table
Kendra Bancroft: all very James Bond
Eugene Pomeray: *everyone
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and a Mah Jongg table as well 😉
Satchmo Prototype: but if enough people think Neualt is better off
without a Casino, no worries we’ll use them somewhere else
Sudane Erato: bye Euegene
Eugene Pomeray: bye
Pendari Lorentz: I think if the current Casino is not making money for
the city. Then we stand to do better letting a private citizen run
their own casino. However, it should be funded and profits should only go
to the group that takes on this project
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll hire ya for Isenland in a split second, Satch 😉
Sudane Erato: yes Pen, I agree
Pendari Lorentz: I think the city will make MORE money this way than we
do currently.
Sudane Erato: yes
Satchmo Prototype: so Pend, you think the private organization should
just pay rent?
Sudane Erato: I would prefer the private organization pay the monthly
fee
Pendari Lorentz: I think out of respect for Urusula, she should be
contacted to take a copy of her build if she so desires. However, as per
the consititution, we have the right to say that build belongs to the
city. If the casino is to be moved into the Beer Garten that
Tai Tuppakaka: I’m not against gambling. I play games occassionally. I
just would rather not have it next door to me. I don’t want the
traffic. I don’t want to hear the games. And I think Neualtenburg can do
better for draw.
Kendra Bancroft: That’s a possibility –and the Guild could give
landmark status to the Biergarten to ensure it doesn’t get tacky
Pendari Lorentz: Yes Sudane. I think the private citizen should have to
deed the land. Pay rent on it. And keep their profits.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Another possibility, of course, is to outlaw gambling
😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: well, tai, the way I see it, is the ultimate deal
here is neither the casino nor beirgarten are doign us anygood.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just mentioned that because something worse than a
Casino, is a Casino that is worthless 😛
Pendari Lorentz: however. I think if the Casino is to remain inside the
city walls. The guild should be required to keep tabs on the impact it
has to the city
Aliasi Stonebender: we need to do SOMETHING with both.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Aliasi.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Currently, I’m basically against “public buildings”
without purpose 😛
Tai Tuppakaka: To say the biergarten is doing no good I don’t
understand.
Tai Tuppakaka: It’s a wonderful place
Kendra Bancroft: Tai –you are always free to join the Guild in that
case –so you have a vote on The appearance of the structure
Sudane Erato: I’m *always* against public buildings with no purpose
Pendari Lorentz: and if we feel the Casino is not doing well for the
city. We should propose that the guild look into the issue of either
moving it, or making the owner revamp the casino so as not to interfere
with the stability of the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, tai – the point is, it’s just “decoration” now,
although it was used during 6 months or so as a meeting place 🙂
Tai Tuppakaka: Pleasure is a purpose.
Pendari Lorentz: this goes back to the guild haveing to be the one to
set the standards for builds inside the city =)
Aliasi Stonebender: move one into the other, encourage more event use
of the garten, bulldoze it all and make a 10 meter statue of Ulrika, we
need to do something with it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is always an argument, yes.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: no statues 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild would not allow for the Biergarten to change
fundementally
Satchmo Prototype: again, we could vote to remove the casino currently
with plans to be determined in the future
Aliasi Stonebender: While I agree with you Tai, wholeheartedly…
certainly, I’m not always out for profit, the fact is: We must pay our
bills, period.
Kendra Bancroft: only improve it’s already pretty ambiance
Satchmo Prototype: which I suspect will be the last we hear of a Casino
in Neualt
Sudane Erato: we should vote on 2 things
Pendari Lorentz: my personal opinion… as a citizen of Neualt. Is that
Satch will do an excellent job with this project
Sudane Erato: casino to be run by Satchmo
Sudane Erato: and location of casino
Sudane Erato: raelly 2 issues
Tai Tuppakaka: How much does the city need?
Pendari Lorentz: The Gildemeister and head of the SC have already given
their approval
Satchmo Prototype: we need to cover tier
Tai Tuppakaka: How much do I need to pay to keep the casino out?
Pendari Lorentz: as per the notecard
Satchmo Prototype: $195 USD per month
Tai Tuppakaka: You can’t tell me the casino brings that much in.
Satchmo Prototype: no, I”m saying that’s what hte city owes each month
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. Tai. The guild would be required to insure that
the casino establishment did not interfere with the workings of the
city . That means lag and other issues
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Casino doesn’t bring anything worthwhile per
month…
Sudane Erato: now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although it used to.
Pendari Lorentz: Or else the RA could step in and find that it was
hurting the city.
Tai Tuppakaka: Ok. I’ve said my peace. You are the representatives. You
vote.
Kendra Bancroft: The Casino fails because it’s fugly and laggy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm well.
Aliasi Stonebender: agreed on both counts, Kendra.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s hard to say.
Pendari Lorentz: I do not think if someone is given the right to make
the casino successful. And to do so with the guild rules in place. That
they should then be made to give the city money.
Kendra Bancroft: The biergarten fails because tho’ pretty there is
nothing to do once you are there
Pendari Lorentz: Not until the RA decides to start taxing =)
Kendra Bancroft: This solves both problems in my view
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes Kendra – that, at least, I fully agree 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: hm. obviously, this isn’t goign to be applicable
THIS meeting…. but I just had an idea.
Sudane Erato: ?
Aliasi Stonebender: rather than necessarily having CASINO games.
Aliasi Stonebender: would it be possible to simple have some kind of
amusement of some sort?
Aliasi Stonebender: perhaps charge per play, thus insuring money.
Pendari Lorentz: That falls into another realm for the guild though
Aliasi
Aliasi Stonebender: we’ve got somethign similar over in Eldora… and
yes
Kendra Bancroft: stroll around “Altenburg”, Tai –and then tell me
whether or not you have faith in my ability to keep the Biergarten a pretty
build
Sudane Erato: I say let Satchmo run the instituion as he sees fit
Pendari Lorentz: so really.. this proposal becomes a two part issue for
the RA
Sudane Erato: for maximum revenue
Sudane Erato: yes pen
Aliasi Stonebender: While I agree with you Tai, wholeheartedly…
certainly, I’m not always out for profit, the fact is: We must pay our
bills, period.
Kendra Bancroft: only improve it’s already pretty ambiance
Satchmo Prototype: which I suspect will be the last we hear of a Casino
in Neualt
Sudane Erato: we should vote on 2 things
Pendari Lorentz: my personal opinion… as a citizen of Neualt. Is that
Satch will do an excellent job with this project
Sudane Erato: casino to be run by Satchmo
Sudane Erato: and location of casino
Sudane Erato: raelly 2 issues
Tai Tuppakaka: How much does the city need?
Pendari Lorentz: The Gildemeister and head of the SC have already given
their approval
Satchmo Prototype: we need to cover tier
Tai Tuppakaka: How much do I need to pay to keep the casino out?
Pendari Lorentz: as per the notecard
Satchmo Prototype: $195 USD per month
Tai Tuppakaka: You can’t tell me the casino brings that much in.
Satchmo Prototype: no, I”m saying that’s what hte city owes each month
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. Tai. The guild would be required to insure that
the casino establishment did not interfere with the workings of the
city . That means lag and other issues
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Casino doesn’t bring anything worthwhile per
month…
Sudane Erato: now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although it used to.
Pendari Lorentz: Or else the RA could step in and find that it was
hurting the city.
Tai Tuppakaka: Ok. I’ve said my peace. You are the representatives. You
vote.
Kendra Bancroft: The Casino fails because it’s fugly and laggy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm well.
Aliasi Stonebender: agreed on both counts, Kendra.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s hard to say.
Pendari Lorentz: I do not think if someone is given the right to make
the casino successful. And to do so with the guild rules in place. That
they should then be made to give the city money.
Kendra Bancroft: The biergarten fails because tho’ pretty there is
nothing to do once you are there
Pendari Lorentz: Not until the RA decides to start taxing =)
Kendra Bancroft: This solves both problems in my view
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes Kendra – that, at least, I fully agree 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: hm. obviously, this isn’t goign to be applicable
THIS meeting…. but I just had an idea.
Sudane Erato: ?
Aliasi Stonebender: rather than necessarily having CASINO games.
Aliasi Stonebender: would it be possible to simple have some kind of
amusement of some sort?
Aliasi Stonebender: perhaps charge per play, thus insuring money.
Pendari Lorentz: That falls into another realm for the guild though
Aliasi
Aliasi Stonebender: we’ve got somethign similar over in Eldora… and
yes
Kendra Bancroft: stroll around “Altenburg”, Tai –and then tell me
whether or not you have faith in my ability to keep the Biergarten a pretty
build
Sudane Erato: I say let Satchmo run the instituion as he sees fit
Pendari Lorentz: so really.. this proposal becomes a two part issue for
the RA
Sudane Erato: for maximum revenue
Sudane Erato: yes pen
part one: (via Pendari Lorentz) Do we allow the casino to be taken down and
taken over by a private party?
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: and two… where?
part two: (via Pendari Lorentz) do we allow the beer garten to be used for
this project.
Kendra Bancroft: please keep in mind that The Guild has proposed
building the new Rathaus where the casino now stands
Sudane Erato: or, if not where else?
Pendari Lorentz: and actually part three: should that private group
have to deed the land and keep profits, or be made to work for the city
and share profits
Pendari Lorentz: RA. Those three points are ours
Sudane Erato: Pen, its more complex than that
Sudane Erato: the private party could pay a share of profits for the
city
Pendari Lorentz: I’m listening =)
Sudane Erato: in excahne for having the deed
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild feels that the proposed design for the
Rathaus works best where the current Casino is –sistuated as it is between
the Schloss and the Platz
Sudane Erato: it would be a special covenant
Sudane Erato: like the covenants we all ahve
Sudane Erato: but specialized to the casino
Pendari Lorentz: as a member of the MPP, I encourge private citizens to
have free reign (within the guild standards and our constitution) to
make their business successful
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One thing is having private citizens having free
reign
Kendra Bancroft: Is not it the Guild’s responsability to keep the
integrity of the Biergarten build>
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I certainly cannot disagree with that 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Which for my money could be made lovlier –Casino or
nO
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other thing, though, is having the city
“encourage” certain types of business activities
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even if the City, at the end of the day, is going to
profit from it.
Sudane Erato: what do we mean by encourage?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Having a special covenant, Sudane.
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me give you a silly example
Pendari Lorentz: No. But it is the Guild’s repsonisbility to set the
standards for what is allowed in the city as far as “look, feel, and
usability”. The RA can dispute that though Kendra (and I know we are still
all working on getting that list together). I pull it up
Sudane Erato: that is only to preserve the interest of the City
Pendari Lorentz: as this is really the first case where it becomes a
true issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suppose I propose to the city to do a deal with my
tiny shop.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In exchange for more prims, I’ll let the City have
half of my income there.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, I would be requesting a “special covenant” for
myself.
Sudane Erato: hmmm
Kendra Bancroft: The RA doesn’t have aan aesthetic vote
Sudane Erato: interesting idea 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Most of you would say “get lost gwyn” 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: only a zoning vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you’d be right 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: right Kendra. Though if we feel something is hurting
the city. We have a right to withdraw funding to the guild if we do not
feel they are insisting appropriate standards =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is actually a turning point in our political
governance 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: true –but don’t pretend to dictate aesthetic taste to
the Guild –that’s just icky
Pendari Lorentz: actually Gwyn.. an example of that came up in our
first RA meeting..
Sudane Erato: well, Gwyn, i dont think so
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. icky it is Kendra. I have faith in the guild
though =)
Sudane Erato: I think this is allowing maximum individual initiative
Sudane Erato: while preserving the interests of the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “allowing” is one thing, “actively encouraging” is
another 😉
Kendra Bancroft: If any business in N’burg should be privatized –I
think even the SDF would agree it’s a casino
Pendari Lorentz: I’m only stating the “rights’ of the RA. Not what we
would actually decide to do :-p
Sudane Erato: the city could easily decide that your proposal was not
in its interest
Pendari Lorentz: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Satchmo, just as a personal side-note, I have
absolutely nothing against having you dealing with the Casino 😉 – and now
back to our political arguments, hehe)
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Basically, it’s a question of principle.
Sudane Erato: I am very in favor of Satchmo taking that role
Pendari Lorentz: if we give this over to a private resident. We could
be assured that it would live up to guild standards for builds within
the city. And we know that someone would be working to bring attraction
to the city. As well as making money for the city from the
Pendari Lorentz: deeded land
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: Let me make clear –the Guild still has interest in
the Biergarten as a money maker –at the very least the textures need to
be redone and you should actually be able to buy food and beverages
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, cleverly worded, Pen 🙂
Sudane Erato: and we would write a covenant
Sudane Erato: to preserve that interest
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me try again – I have nothing against having the
they must have a “pub type” balcony outside?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and, of course, the guild can outsource it to
Satchmo 😉 )
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. that’s ONE workaround :-p
Kendra Bancroft: Only if it were the Biergarten
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Pen 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: well the current private business that is interested
in running the casino
Satchmo Prototype: would hire hte guild to build everything
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Sudane Erato: there is no natural reason why the Guild must “run” the
casino
Kendra Bancroft: The dynamic of the Biergarten’s outside Bistro would
remain unchanged
Sudane Erato: they are not here to run things
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The point is, Satchmo, if it’s a Guild business, or a
private business 😉
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild is not interested in running a Casino
Sudane Erato: there are here to build and administer
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: shhh kendra
Kendra Bancroft: only in protecting it’s appearance
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there goes my plan 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Satchmo Prototype: I really think it should just be a city business,
and the city hires a management company to run it
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in that case – I have to vote against the
principle
Satchmo Prototype: heh but I’m flexible to other arrangments
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Satchmo Prototype: unless it leads to me getting screwed as a
businessman
Satchmo Prototype: cause then I’ll take my business over to Hanover
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t worry, Satchmo, there will be enough votes 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean enough votes in favour 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. The RA can vote that for historic reasons. Part of
the Beer Garten must be presevered. We can ceed to the Gildemeister’s
wishes that a part of the “pub aspect remain” (namely the balcony area).
And add that as a requirement to the Private Citizen
Pendari Lorentz: taking over a “current city build”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because, you see, this is one clear case for me…
Sudane Erato: Pen, I think we ahould refer this to a 7 days vote
Satchmo Prototype: this sounds like a 7 day vote to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Casino was always a “City operation”
Pendari Lorentz: I agree =)
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Satchmo Prototype: though I think we should vote to scrap the current
Casino as is
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA has (and should have) the choice to give it
over to the Guild (which is also “Government”)
Satchmo Prototype: immediately
Satchmo Prototype: since the guild is going to recommend you do that
for lag purposes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the Guild doesn’t want it.
Satchmo Prototype: the milisecond after we ajourn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s another thing, yes.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: All RA in favore of having the current Casino
“stored”. Vote yes or no now.. or lend it to 7 day vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, on 4B, I vote “no”, on the grounds that it is a
City Business, and the Guild doesn’t want to run it.
Sudane Erato: 7 days
Pendari Lorentz: stored meaning taken down :-p
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On #5 I vote yes (lag issue and removal of the casino
to another place)
Pendari Lorentz: ok. We wait 7 days before we allow the current city
casino to be touched. So that the RA can discuss its removal
Sudane Erato: the guild ha sthe authority to take it down
Satchmo Prototype: I vote for yes immediate vote to have the current
Casino “stored”
Satchmo Prototype: kk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I agree on Satchmo
Sudane Erato: for lag raesons
Satchmo Prototype: the GUild has the authority to shut down a city
business?
Satchmo Prototype: ah I see
Pendari Lorentz: I would vote yes have it stored
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also vote yes on point 5 – removing the Casino
immediately, and not wait another 7 days for a vote.
Sudane Erato: ok… yes
Pendari Lorentz: are you sure Sudane?
Sudane Erato: 🙂 ty
Satchmo Prototype: yes, immediate removal before the guild is forced to
shut down a city business
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. Just thinking a bit about it, but yes, the
Guild is certainly entitled to do that.
Satchmo Prototype: truthfully the Casino isn’t the lagger I make it out
ot be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since it’s *still* a City business 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Casino may be removed (stored) by the guild. The
RA has the next seven days to discuss the private ownership of a casino
within the city
Satchmo Prototype: but it certainly doesn’t help
Satchmo Prototype: adn the marketplatz needs all the help it can get
Sudane Erato: yes Pen
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s still pretty fugly though.
Sudane Erato: I agree
Pendari Lorentz: if no objections. We move forward to next agenda item
Satchmo Prototype: yea and it’s really fugly
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes on that, Pen. No objections 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. ok. Next item was covered in last item
Pendari Lorentz: so.. moving on to the NEXT NEXT item on the Agenda =)
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Item 5B 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: 5. Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda B) Question – Where to
publish/announce the events during the EXPO?
Sudane Erato: 5A is fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, on item 5B – A) (this numbering is giving me a
headache), I think it’s a pretty good idea, so I agree with it.
Pendari Lorentz: We can vote to take out this part on the log and
PUBLIC FORUM listing due to promotional reasons for the city.
Sudane Erato: ??
Gwyneth Llewelyn is confused as well – lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, like we had two items #4, we have two items
Sudane Erato: lol
Pendari Lorentz: the fact that this was proposed as something not to
announce to the public
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
Sudane Erato: its the substance… not the nimbers 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: we could have it striken from the record as long as no
objection from the SC =)
Sudane Erato: numbers are relative 🙂
Tai Tuppakaka: Hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The idea is to try to keep expectations high…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And thus, be very hush-hush about the Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda
Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda
Sudane Erato: and that proposal is fine
Sudane Erato: it is question 5B??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, marketing reasons 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: but what a scandal it would be if the SC denied us!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Pendari Lorentz: I’m fine with Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda! As for listing the
events. I found I was able to choose an “EXPO” spot in my drop down
list. Perhaps the Estate Owner could work with individual event hosts to
make some properties show up in the list (there ARE limitati
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that would still attract people 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: itations.. even to the estate owner that should be
known though)
Sudane Erato: Gwyn had studied this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I robbed the city treasury of L$ 30/week to set
one of the parcels in Find | Places 😉
Sudane Erato: dont think the estate owner has any ocntrol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This means everybody in the group will get about L$ 1
less per week from traffic 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (for paying the L$ 30/week fee)
Sudane Erato: I didn’t notice thr drain 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: lol Digi was jsut asking me abou8t that
Satchmo Prototype: what her $1L group fee was
Gwyneth Llewelyn: When the Expo is over, I’ll remove the plot again
from Find | Places
Satchmo Prototype: group payment
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, group payment!
Pendari Lorentz: I actually think that is something we need to pin
down. And learn about .. All of us that wish to host events =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the grounds that the Expo is generating traffic
like crazy…
Sudane Erato: yes, pen
Sudane Erato: major question
Sudane Erato: we should be experts
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. the Gypsy event was so popular.. I had to send
Kendra coffee through the phone line
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Pendari Lorentz: yes. Well.. I think the expo is great exposure to the
city. Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda. As long as
the guild did not object =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww I’m so sorry I missed that 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, Kendra is not here….
Sudane Erato: shes outside the door
Satchmo Prototype: I vote yes to Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda.
Pendari Lorentz: that’s ok. Garnet and I are going to make sure Madame
visits the city more often :-p
Sudane Erato: I vote yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Great, Pen!
Kendra Bancroft: No objection here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, I vote yes as well.
Satchmo Prototype: and I think the Make Ulrika Famous Plushdoll should
announce it in a photoshopped pic on the forums 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, that’s a starter!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Kendra 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Where else should we anounce it?
Kendra Bancroft: did I miss much?
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. So RA members vote that Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda.
Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda. Kendra, if the guild has no objections to that. We
can move forward? Or I can send it to the guild and we will find out in
a few days if it is approved or not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Sudane Erato: i move immediate approval
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m comfortable approving that now, if Kendra as
Guildemeisterinn doesn’t object 🙂
Sudane Erato: didn’t kendra propose it?
Pendari Lorentz: Not that I know of
Sudane Erato: sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe unofficially she did, I think 😉
Pendari Lorentz: unless it went from her to an RA member without my
knowing =)
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: no objection and a heart aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs embarassed*
Pendari Lorentz: which can easily happen..hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: lol
Pendari Lorentz: Satch said yes?
Sudane Erato: yes
Satchmo Prototype: yea\
Pendari Lorentz: ALright.. Removed from Website as per reasons stated in Agenda. . And those
guild members wishing to understand how to list events. Will get together
with land owners, gildemeister, and estate holder to find out how this
is done =)
Sudane Erato: good… next?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next – “where to publish it”
Pendari Lorentz: 6. Univercity Proposal Revamped
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH, we skipped publishing. Ok.
Kendra Bancroft: I’m right here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry Pen !
Pendari Lorentz: no we didn’t Gwyn
Pendari Lorentz: publish = listing?
Pendari Lorentz: anyone there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my
Pendari Lorentz: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So Pen – what exactly are we discussing?
Pendari Lorentz: Ok.. 3 min recess to tinkle then we move forward
Kendra Bancroft: The Ulrika plushie has been advertised on the forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ok 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: afk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaawww Kendra 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It’s selling so well I’I’m going to open a mercahdise
cart in Altenburg
Kendra Bancroft: merhandise cart
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hopefully you won’t expect me to tell jokes or
something, because I’m terrible at those 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: whatever
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How will that work?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and wb Eugene 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw Kendra… while we are in recess…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Where can people buy the Expo Hat? 😀
Tai Tuppakaka: I think the hat looks great on Gwyneth, I’m just not
sure it’ll look good on me. Hehe.
Sudane Erato: 🙂 nor me
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a free hat on the food table near the geodesic
dome
Aliasi Stonebender: well, depends on if it can be modded to fit yer
head.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but Garnet wanted one as well!
Aliasi Stonebender: Gwyneth’s a big hair sort of person.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It can be modded, yes, Aliasi 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn *blushes*
Kendra Bancroft: It’s got full mods
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Tai Tuppakaka: I need a skull cap. Got any Expo skull caps?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: not… yet 🙂
Tai Tuppakaka: Haha
Kendra Bancroft: You can always delete the brim, Tai 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Tai Tuppakaka: Is this year the first for the Expo?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well – Neualtenburg is “only” one year old, Tai.
Kendra Bancroft: yes –it’s to celebrate our anniversary
Eugene Pomeray: hello 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As SL projects go, we’re ancient 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Eugene!!
Tai Tuppakaka: Ah yes, I should’ve remembered that.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The next event will be the Oktoberfest….
Tai Tuppakaka: So I guess that hat will quite the collector’s item.
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, I can think of maybe one or two other things
offhand that have survived… and none quite so continuously active.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And then, Christmas probably!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re right, Aliasi. So far, we can’t really
complain.
Tai Tuppakaka: Are you having an Oktoberfest this year?
Kendra Bancroft: jah! Weinachten on the Platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, most definitely!?
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –we’ll be settin’ up the old Hippodrome
Tai Tuppakaka: Isn’t it usually in September? I thought the Expo was
equivalent.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hopefully on an extended time period – last year, it
was on Euro-unfriendly hours, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oktoberfest = October ;)(
Tai Tuppakaka: I lived in Germany. Oktoberfest is in September.
Kendra Bancroft: In Neualtenburg it’s Oktober 😉
Tai Tuppakaka: Ok
Pendari Lorentz: everyon back?
Kendra Bancroft: That way we get three major months of events
Sudane Erato: sure
Kendra Bancroft: Expo, Oktoberfest Xmas
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah – yes, it starts in September and goes through
mid-October, actually
Kendra Bancroft: with no overlap
Pendari Lorentz: Next Agenda item: 6. Univercity Proposal Revamped
Satchmo Prototype: back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome back, all 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I’m in full agreement that we should move forward on
this proposal
Satchmo Prototype: me too
Pendari Lorentz: other thoughts?
Kendra Bancroft: oh and good news –Sissie’s wagon will move to
Altenburg after the Expo
Sudane Erato: we need a full proposal
Pendari Lorentz: It is in the notecard Sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to propose to have Aliasi and eventually
Satchmo on the committee working on the University.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the University *proposal
Sudane Erato: ahhh, i see
Sudane Erato: the action is to create a committee
Pendari Lorentz: the proposal already exists in the notecard under the
agenda item. That is the proposal we will vote on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes.
Sudane Erato: sure.. sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “endari Lorentz would like to propose that the RA
works to form a committee that would be responsible for gathering
information on creating an “organized education system” for Neualtenburg.”
Sudane Erato: well.. I certainly agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry for misspelling your name, pen 🙁
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ate a P!
Pendari Lorentz: at least you didn’t call me Penis like some do :-p
Kendra Bancroft: I’d like to be included in a texture and build class
Gwyneth Llewelyn: agggh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yuch
Pendari Lorentz: It happens
Sudane Erato: tsck
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, that would be great, kendra!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, as a sidenote – it could help with the proposal
– this is another thing that most likely fall under the Guild’s duties.
Pendari Lorentz: The proposal up for vote is: that the RA works to form
a committee that would be responsible for gathering information on
creating an “organized education system” for Neualtenburg.”
Sudane Erato: I vote yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I vote on that committee to be created, yes.
Pendari Lorentz: i vote yes as well
Pendari Lorentz: Satch. .. Eugene?
Satchmo Prototype: yes
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I’d suggest a committee with Aliasi, Satchmo,
eventually Kendra if she has got the time, and myself
Sudane Erato: agreed
Kendra Bancroft: I propose I build a chicken to replace the Penguin
Aliasi Stonebender: makes sense. I mean, I know Gwyn and myself teach
classes as it is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To discuss it over, probably publicly in the forums
and in-world
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, just newbie classes, lol
Aliasi Stonebender: all kinds count!
Satchmo Prototype: yea I would like to do noob scripting classes myself
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, yes, but I also hope that your own classes will
attract different kinds of people, Aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, hmm
Pendari Lorentz: Alright. Proposal passed. Additions to the proposal
can be brought to the guild or future RA agendas =)
Pendari Lorentz: Final item on the Agenda today: 7. Proposals from
Guild on Requested RA Builds
Aliasi Stonebender: well, as it is, I get all sorts.
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Most newbies are not really interested in “staying”
in Neualtenburg. But when they start going into scripting & texturing
classes, well, they’ll be picking for places to live.
Sudane Erato: we need to study them pen
Pendari Lorentz: I tried to upload the images to include in the
notecards. But some timed out
Sudane Erato: we only just got them minutes before the meeting
Pendari Lorentz: so I already motion this becomes a 7 day vote for the
RA
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: but thoughts can be discussed already =)
Aliasi Stonebender: I’ve found a few newbies I’ve shown around are
seriously impressed by N-burg… the idea that a bunch of people just up
and made a city.
Kendra Bancroft: I didn’t have much notice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. yes Kendra
Sudane Erato: np..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, the Rathaus proposal is fine.
Pendari Lorentz: it was in the RA journal. But I did not formally get
it to the Gildemeister till today
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Question to the Treasurer…
Sudane Erato: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we afford it? 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: I motion that the RA reads these proposals from the
guild. and we take the next 7 days to discuss and vote
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember all, this is one building that will not earn
revenue, nothing…
Sudane Erato: we more and more move to a state where we can afford it
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild will consider accepting a promisory note
Satchmo Prototype: 7 day vote
Sudane Erato: the increase in new members is very hearteneing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we accept that?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true 🙂
Sudane Erato: and suggests that this kind of project will fit within
our means
Pendari Lorentz: The Rathaus revamp cannot even be considered until the
RA decides that the current casino location can be re-used
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I don’t disagree with postponing the voting until
next week.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a good point, Pendari.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In any case, we surely voted for the casino to be
removed ASAP
Pendari Lorentz: yes we did
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the place will be “empty”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Sudane Erato: I feel the location issues should be kept seaparte from
th Build issues
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane — yes, you’re right!
Pendari Lorentz: I can agree with That Sudane
Sudane Erato: the Rathhaus could also be located here
Kendra Bancroft: design wise the location is key for the Rathaus
Pendari Lorentz: only needed it to be considered due to past discussion
this meeting
Sudane Erato: we should develop a master “location”plan
Kendra Bancroft: as aestetically it bridges the Scloss with the Platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How so, Sudane?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: urban planning? 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: that seems to incorporate some of Eugene’s ideas
Sudane Erato: casino, rathaus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Kendra’s arguments on that proposal are pretty
convincing to me 🙂
Sudane Erato: destiny of all the city lots
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s also true, Pen.
Sudane Erato: especially around the Platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder what we’ll do with the current Rathaus then
🙂
Pendari Lorentz: shops
Satchmo Prototype: shops!!!!!!!!
Pendari Lorentz: =)
Sudane Erato: thus the need for planning
Pendari Lorentz: LOL
Sudane Erato: yes,, shops!
Kendra Bancroft: Current Rathaus should be converted to vendor space
Eugene Pomeray: i have business idea 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: we should convert one street into business street
Pendari Lorentz: we already have the platz for that function though
Eugene
Sudane Erato: all streets are business streets
Pendari Lorentz: ?
Eugene Pomeray: first floors being business, and second floors being
rentable studios
Kendra Bancroft: I think both sides north and south of the platz should
be business district quite frankly
Sudane Erato: I agree Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Pendari Lorentz: just because it is not yet being utilized, does not
mean that plan does not already exist
Eugene Pomeray: frankly the fachwerks arent very business oriented
Aliasi Stonebender: well, sudane, given Eugene’s proposal on the
forums, I think it makes sense. looking for a house with a vendor in it in
the city now is a pain, frankly.
Kendra Bancroft: No –I have very low prim einefachhauses that would
suit better
Sudane Erato: I had long ago proposed to Ulrika that she proivide
modable fachwerks
Sudane Erato: for just this reason
Kendra Bancroft: three story builds much like the Bangzwang Steinzeug
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes — an old issue 😛
Sudane Erato: sio that they could be shops
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: yes. The Guild can set standards on acceptable “theme
models for businesses” for the platz =)
Eugene Pomeray: ah that would be great
Kendra Bancroft: They are designed by me to be shops
Sudane Erato: yes
Satchmo Prototype: hey we’re in teh middle of the log-a-thon
Aliasi Stonebender: yay!
Satchmo Prototype: we rule
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh gosh – already?!
Aliasi Stonebender: we will all get free useless trinkets!
Pendari Lorentz: that is a Guild issue though. in the Grand scheme.
Unless the RA asks for something specific within that area as “needed by
the city”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I forgot I should be on another meeting 🙁
Pendari Lorentz: me too Gwyneth
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. Motion now
Sudane Erato: 7 days
Pendari Lorentz: these proposals will be voted on by the RA within the
next 7 days through email
Sudane Erato: agreed
Satchmo Prototype: sure
Pendari Lorentz: agree myself
Kendra Bancroft: I would rez one here –but it’stoo big
Pendari Lorentz: Eugene?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree as well.
Pendari Lorentz: eek! sory Gwyn
Eugene Pomeray: i agree sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, no worries 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no problem, Eugene 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Alright. I’ll send out logs and proposals up for 7 day
votes this week. thank you all for coming. This concludes the RA
meeting for Sept. 18th, 2005 =)RA Meeting: October 02, 2005
Those present:
Pendari Lorentz is in the chair.
Aliasi Stonebender: TMI, Tai…
Tai Tuppakaka: Hehe
Pendari Lorentz: recorder on. Welcome everyone to the October 2nd
meeting of the Neualtenburg RA
Aliasi Stonebender: anyway, yay for being… well, not in the black,
but with a surplus.
Satchmo Prototype: doh I forgot to put in my proposal for hazing the
new residents 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: saved green for you only, Garnet
Garnet Psaltery: :o)
Pendari Lorentz: Eugene is not here, hopefully he will make it before
the meeting is over. I know he has had computer trouble
Tai Tuppakaka: I saw Eugene last night. I think he’s fixed his issues.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I feel my party is always underrepresented, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s good to know, Tai!
Kendra Bancroft: what am I? chopped liver?
Pendari Lorentz: First item on the Agenda today is a wrap up of the
action items from last meeting. Please take a moment to read over the
notecard titled “Proposal Votes and Dicsussions from Sept. 18th Meeting”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra ? you’re very good looking chopped liver, but
without voting ability 😉
Sudane Erato: lol
Kendra Bancroft: 😛
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Agenda item 1a
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: Proposed “conditions” to be placed on the Rental
Chalets project.
Kendra Bancroft: Yah but I can harangue everybody into seeing things my
way
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Pendari Lorentz: any comments on the proposal included as “conditions”
for this proposal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, to make it short, I accept 1A as stated.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No comments 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It’s rather a moot point –since I’m moving the rntal
project to other lands
Pendari Lorentz: I also accept 1A as stated
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft kendra. Why?
Pendari Lorentz: umm.. hmm.. why Kendra?
Pendari Lorentz: we have been discussing this all week. this is the
first I have heard you state that 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed 🙁
Kendra Bancroft: I no longer see the upside for the City in light of
the fact that we are getting actual citizens
Pendari Lorentz: Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: do you have today’s agenda?
Kendra Bancroft: I could still go ahead with it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We will charge you for having wasted our time, pfft
Pendari Lorentz: do you see the proposal under 1a?
Aliasi Stonebender: not wanting to tie up the lots for normal citizen
prospects?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: that seems to be handled under the current proposal
tho
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Aliasi. The one month rental period will handle
that as a compromise.
Pendari Lorentz: Kendra. do you have today’s agenda?
Kendra Bancroft: I do now
Pendari Lorentz: ok. hehe.. take a moment to read over the notecard for
item 1 section a
Kendra Bancroft: I can accept those conditions
Pendari Lorentz: ok. Sudane, Satch?
Sudane Erato: yes with me 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I vote Aye
Satchmo Prototype: and nice work putting that together everyone
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye indeed for me as well (just to make sure 🙂 )
Garnet Psaltery: Fine by me as well
Pendari Lorentz: ok. That is 4 yes votes on this propsal. That is
enough to pass the propsal even without Eugene
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: Yes those conditions on the chalets are fine 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda Item 1B
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: B) Shall there be private ownership of a casino within
the City.
Glass of Champagne: Cheers from Kitchen Kreations!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Transalation on the proposals….
Pendari Lorentz: this item seems to be a tough one for us all to
compromise on. there are 3 proposals that we seem to have narrowed it down to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1B) 1. -> gambling is state-controlled
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1B) 2. -> state benefits from gambling
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1B) 3. -> gambling is free and not controlled
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I got that right …
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. that sounds right Gwyeth
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, Gwyn, as I understand it, if someone
otherwise followed the current covenants, we already effectively have 3, don’t
we?
Pendari Lorentz: though 1b)3 would be no control other than normal
guild standards
Gwyneth Llewelyn: More or the less, Aliasi.
Garnet Psaltery: I like B2. We have some controls, get money, and are
less likely to have proliferating casinos
Kendra Bancroft: Might I mention that I have already entered into
discussion with Satchmo to the effect that I am considering refitting the
Gasthaus in Altenburg as a casino?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, the OLD idea of the Casino falls neatly
under B
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You should mention that, Kendra, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I support B3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, to be consistent…
Satchmo Prototype: Gambling doesn’t carry the same connotations as
brinign in low income workers and degenerates in VR like it does in RL
Satchmo Prototype: to me, in VR, gambling is like selling clothes
Satchmo Prototype: and I certainly don’t support controlling clothing
sales
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. each RA member. Lets narrow this down further. As
of right now. Which proposal do you support most. 1b)1, 1b)2, or 1b)3
Aliasi Stonebender: the only downside of many SL casinos is how poorly
they’re done, but that is what the current covenant is supposed to
guard against.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: indeed Aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I of course vote for A – controlled gambling; abstain
on B; and I have some doubts on C, but will probably abstain on that as
well.
Garnet Psaltery: 1b)2
Satchmo Prototype: 1b)3
Sudane Erato: 3
Pendari Lorentz: just asking for RA input right this minute
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Gwyn, you said 1b)1?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Comments are welcome, though, Garnet.
Kendra Bancroft: What prevents “Altenburg from having a Casino
currently?
Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyn
Pendari Lorentz: it is still within the city walls Kendra
Satchmo Prototype: nothing currently, but they want to make rules
against it 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I’d vote on 1b)1 and abstain on the others.
Satchmo Prototype: without special permit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Satchmo is quite right.
Pendari Lorentz: so mainly the argument is.. should the city make money
off the casino or not
Satchmo Prototype: for those of you who support B, I have a queston
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say no, Pen.
Satchmo Prototype: if I bet on a football game with my friends, in my
fachwerk, and I don’t have a permit, there would be ramifications?
Satchmo Prototype: even if no scripts are involved?
Pendari Lorentz: my vote would be 1b)3 by the way.. sorry..
Sudane Erato: 3 out of 4 have voted 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Satchmo: casinos have the side-effect of creating
lag, attracting people to a spot, creating “noise”; etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it’s different.
Aliasi Stonebender: But, Gwyn
Satchmo Prototype: so do bars (noise)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was actually what a minority of citizens
expressed in the forums.
Pendari Lorentz: the reason I am fine with 3 is because the Guild still
has control over the standards
Aliasi Stonebender: we already *have* provisions against those.
Satchmo Prototype: as far as lag goes we already have a method for that
Satchmo Prototype: I’m against making laws for the sake of laws
Aliasi Stonebender: well, lag and noise anyway
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m just voicing the minority’s views on the subject,
lol, to make sure their opinions and issues are duly represented at teh
RA 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pen: yes.
Pendari Lorentz: I agree with that Satch.. mainly I think we were just
trying to ease concerns of citizens who were unsure about having a
casino in the city
Pendari Lorentz: thank Gwyneth! I’m glad for that! =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, lol. In this issue I’m really not supporting my
own views, lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: so Eugene actually has a tie-breaker here
Pendari Lorentz: not really Satch
Satchmo Prototype: well potentially
Pendari Lorentz: as 3 of us voted 1b)3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just trying to get a reasonable compromise among my
own views (free gambling, not city-controlled) and what a minority asked
us to consider.
Satchmo Prototype: ah I see
Aliasi Stonebender: “angel’s advocate”, eh?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I’m more “against” 2, where the city is
really getting something out of the gambling
Pendari Lorentz: I can call this a done vote now.. but it has been such
an issue, I just want to make sure the RA is comfortable with this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes Aliasi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do that a lot, actually :)I
Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyneth
Sudane Erato: ultimately the city can assess the casino a higher fee,
if it is very successful
Tai Tuppakaka: I know that I made a big stink about a casino to begin
with. But I’d just like to stay that although I am ideologicaly opposed
to a casino, I won’t stand up against a civic proposal to have one.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not under 3), Sudane.
Satchmo Prototype: heh I’m against that as well Sudane, but that’s a
different issue
Pendari Lorentz: not under 3 Sudane
Satchmo Prototype: it’s like charging higher rent on successful
clothing business
Melina Loonie: Tai, I do not want to have a casino either.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Pen 😉
Satchmo Prototype: cause they are successful
Sudane Erato: yes, I think so… since the City always retains the
right to change the fees
Gwyneth Llewelyn: precisely, Satchmo. I definitely oppose that!
Pendari Lorentz: is that in every standard covenant already Sudane?
Sudane Erato: yes it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane, on the grounds of “principle”, I’m
against “discrimination” (positive of negative) in land fees
Sudane Erato: i think its a fair system…
Sudane Erato: its like a real estate assessment
Pendari Lorentz: I think if it is not the guild doing the work, then
the city cannot ask for money for a private business
Sudane Erato: if the land gets more valuable…
Aliasi Stonebender: for what it’s worth, so am I. The city already gets
enough “reward” from a successful operation from *people coming here*.
Pendari Lorentz: is my opinion
Sudane Erato: then the fee goes up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t oppose the idea that this is actually defined
in the covenants (ie. the ability to change the fees) because future
RAs could come up with new ideas.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or that, yes, Sudane.
Kendra Bancroft: Pardon me –but that’s ridiculous
Pendari Lorentz: it sounds like Sudane you would rather vote for 1b)2?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Eugene! (whew!)
Satchmo Prototype: it’s not hte land that is woth more
Satchmo Prototype: but the busienss
Kendra Bancroft: It actually discourages growth
Satchmo Prototype: if someone just moves that business to Midnight City
Satchmo Prototype: then Neualt is screwed
Pendari Lorentz: welcome Eugene! click the penguin for a notecard
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Satchmo. Land gets more valuable due to
successful business, of course
Pendari Lorentz: of the agenda
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: If Modehaus is successful –will the city raise my
fee?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Kendra.
Tai Tuppakaka: I’d just like the RA members to consider this. What are
the ideals you stand for? I consider Neualtenbrhurg to be a bit of a
Utopia. I’m not sure where gambling fits into that.
Pendari Lorentz: I would not think that would be right Kendra
Sudane Erato: obviously the City would restrian itself… cause it
wants to keep the business
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As long as I’m on the RA, I’ll vote against that 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: and if not –why is gambling different than any other
merchant?
Satchmo Prototype: that’s my stance Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: it is an organic city Tai.. things will come and go
and evolve
Satchmo Prototype: if we place limitiations on business types
Sudane Erato: Kendra, you’re right
Melina Loonie: Tai, seems that nobody is listening to us … 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I understand that future RAs may charge fees
depending on the “value” the business has. That could be a possibility.
Satchmo Prototype: then all new ideas require approval from teh RA?
Kendra Bancroft: are we here to support our mrchant class or exploit
them?
Sudane Erato: every merchant or other property should be assessed
thusly
Satchmo Prototype: like if I want to open up a theatre, and put on
plays… do I need to ask permission
Aliasi Stonebender: I agree, Kendra. What’s the difference between a
“gambling machine” that takes money (and sometimes refunds) and a vendor
that ALSO takes money (with a refund feature)?
Satchmo Prototype: will I build it and be told it’s illegal?
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild will not stand for that, Sudane
Pendari Lorentz: that is untrue Melina.. we are listening =)
Sudane Erato: its in every deed
Tai Tuppakaka: What nees to be considered is the morality vs. the
profitable.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, for the sake of argument ? gambling, as in
casino gambling, is a “different” business, just because SOME citizens view
it as such.
Sudane Erato: and in the covenants
Sudane Erato: the City can change the fees
Pendari Lorentz: ture also Gwyneth
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, it’s the RA’s responsability to present some of
the citizens’ views to discussion.
Satchmo Prototype: well I’m protecting the views of free enterprise
Satchmo Prototype: we have a few business owners here 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we’re sovereign, though, we can simply rule out
that “gambling is different” (ie. proposal 3), but then we’ll face the
consequences at the next elections 😉
Sudane Erato: and I too support free enterprise
Kendra Bancroft: If the city wishes to tax a gambling establishment
that is another matter –but to base land rentals on a merchant’s sucess?
ridiculous
Melina Loonie: TY, Gwyn!
Pendari Lorentz: it is the guild that is in charge of the treasury.. it
would seem if the Guild Meister has an issue with the deeds, perhaps
that is something the guild should discuss?
Tai Tuppakaka: Free enterprise has never been known for being moral.
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t find gambling morally objectionable, thugh.
(Stupid, sure. But stupidity isn’t a sin, just stupid.)
Pendari Lorentz: the tax would fall under proposal 1b)a
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ys.
Pendari Lorentz: err, 1b)1
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: proposal 1b)a is a compromise.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gambling is “state-directed”
Aliasi Stonebender: but on the “raise land fees if a biz is successful”
– I can tell youain advance what the result would be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. not free for everyone
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but allowed under a license
Kendra Bancroft: I might add –any merchant taxes must be submitted to
the guild for approval
Pendari Lorentz: right gwyneth.. that is why 1b)1 exists. it is sort of
a halfway between the other two
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the state does not profit from it directly
Aliasi Stonebender: “that sounds like a really good deal, but I have a
better one. I give you the finger, and move to another sim!”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Pen.
Pendari Lorentz: yes Kendra
Tai Tuppakaka: Huh?
Pendari Lorentz: Aliasi was giving a sample reaction
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: to raising the cost of land for a successful business
=)
Sudane Erato: yes
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes, sorry. and more on the general “tax successful
merchants more” principle
Aliasi Stonebender: less the gambling side… sorry for the sidetrack.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Kendra ? under 1B) 1., I would expect the taxes
or the permit or whatever to be something the Guild collects directly.
Pendari Lorentz: Eugene.. have you had a chance to look at the agenda
yet? we are on item 1 B
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll tell you the Guild’s reaction right now, while
I’m Guildmeister
Tai Tuppakaka: What are we about?
Kendra Bancroft: Every single store in Neualtenburg closes it’s doors
Eugene Pomeray: i’m looking right now 🙂
Tai Tuppakaka: Is it business? Or community?
Aliasi Stonebender: Both.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both, yes.
Pendari Lorentz: both Tai.. and government too =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Sudane Erato: both, by necessity
Satchmo Prototype: I think this is an evolving city, that’s my view
Tai Tuppakaka: Well, I thnk that moral decisions must play a part.
Satchmo Prototype: utopia usually results in genocide
Sudane Erato: lol
Pendari Lorentz: I will never mix church and state =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: just need to put that out there.. hehe
Sudane Erato: whew! this is moving far!
Aliasi Stonebender: Whose morality, Tai?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … although we had a period of time with the Head of
State and the Head of Church being the same person *blushes*
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neualtenburg was a teocracy! Woot!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we’re actually waiting for Eugene’s vote…
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild is a corporate a oligarchy 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Sudane stepped on my toes.. Ok.. call to order. RA..
give me your thoughts again right now (need just RA for a minute)..
which do you like best 1b)1, 1b)2, or 1b)3?
Satchmo Prototype: 1b)3
Tai Tuppakaka: Lol. I admit that morality is a tough nut to crack. But
I doubt that you will find any society that santions gamgling for any
purpose other thatn raising revenues, and I find it distasteful.
Sudane Erato: 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1b)1
Pendari Lorentz: 1b)3 for me
Satchmo Prototype: woot I’m distasteful
Satchmo Prototype: wonder how that will play in the next elections 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Satchmo 🙂
Tai Tuppakaka: No, you’re a businessman.
Tai Tuppakaka: I don’t disparage you.
Tai Tuppakaka: But I think as a community we have a right and an
obligation to set standards.
Pendari Lorentz: with 1b)3.. this would mean that the guild sets
standards for the casino (as it is within the city walls).. but the owners
will retain full profits from the business
Satchmo Prototype: I promise when I campaign I will drap a Neult flag
over the bare breasts of statues!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and no limits (city.imposed) on the types and
number of casinos, etc. It would be all the Guild’s decision to do proper
urban planning.
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: that would be correct Gwyn
Kendra Bancroft: So essentially you are placing Casinos under Guild
auspices?
Tai Tuppakaka: For the record, I find it within the community standards
to have open displays of nudity.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, that’s a reason why I also consider the vote
on 1B)1. I think that the RA should also have a saying, not just the
“corporate oligarchy”, since non-merchants (but citizens nevertheless!)
should have a saying on community standards.
Pendari Lorentz: as it is a build within the City walls, Kendra.. the
guild sets the standards
Melina Loonie: Tai, LOL
Pendari Lorentz: in other words.. if the guild felt the casino was too
laggy, they could insist it be cleaned up (script wise, etc)
Kendra Bancroft: or shut down
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra ? since Eugene is silent (and I guess he’s
having troubles with his connection) ? I think that you’re right, it would
be just the Guild regulating “casinos”.
Pendari Lorentz: I’m sure satch will do a beautiful job, but yes, this
has to be stated
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’m quite certain on that as well, lol
Melina Loonie: How many casinos are we going to have … in the end?
Kendra Bancroft: Then in fact –any Casino liscence to operate is
issued thru the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not under 1B1
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There won’t be “licenses to operate”
Sudane Erato: no, there is no license
Satchmo Prototype: to take off my RA hat… I’m not doing a Casino for
the money at all…. I want to do it so people have something to do
when they visit Neualt
Pendari Lorentz: no.. if we were going to have a license, it would have
to be a bill and that would involve the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just general issues regarding location, build
aesthetics, lag issues, etc
Kendra Bancroft: There is if you want the Guild to let you operate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Kendra Bancroft: otherwise what is my power to regulate?
Pendari Lorentz: the guild does not need to issue permits Kendra.. only
standards
Tai Tuppakaka: Don’t you find it a bit sad, that so many local
governments in the real world are resorting to gambling to solve their fiscal
woes?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this means that you can prevent any other person
to do business in N’burg? hehe
Pendari Lorentz: like the list of Standards you are typing up to give
to the RA
Aliasi Stonebender: Not really.
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild can do whatever the heck i wants, Pendari
–The RA does not set Guild policy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Tai Tuppakaka: So we should have a casino on every corner?
Satchmo Prototype: should we having clohting stores on every corner?
Aliasi Stonebender: Not in the least. I am nto saddened by gambling,
I’m saddened by the poor state of education that peopel continue to
believe they can get something for nothing.
Sudane Erato: exactly
Melina Loonie: Yes, that would bring us a lot of money … but the
residents would move away. 🙁
Pendari Lorentz: right Kendra.. but you were going to get us a list of
standards as it helps us in decisions.. the guild sets the standards
for the look, etc. of the city. The RA is only involved when it becomes a
matter of deciding on needed builds for the city and thus
Tai Tuppakaka: There’s a difference. Gambling preys on the poor.l
Pendari Lorentz: needing to commision the guild
Kendra Bancroft: But the RA doesn’t determine commerce
Eugene Pomeray: i think one street should be turned into
shopping/gamling area
Kendra Bancroft: that’s my point
Pendari Lorentz: right Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: but we *do* have to pass bills
Pendari Lorentz: I’m saying a bill is not needed
Pendari Lorentz: the guild already has the power to say when something
is harming the city
Kendra Bancroft: All I’m saying is that if you are having the Guild
establish standards for a business –you can expect that the guild will
issue gaming liscenses on casinos
Sudane Erato: construction standards
Pendari Lorentz: Covenants are guild issued as well Sudane?
Sudane Erato: thats all
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. construction standards.
Kendra Bancroft: and zoning issues
Sudane Erato: the coveneants are in the founding documents
Tai Tuppakaka: There are social issues to consider in addition to
fiscal issues. Not all businesses are the same.
Pendari Lorentz: sorry.. I’m still unclear a lot about covenants due to
them being introduced while I was away
Kendra Bancroft: If I determine a proposed loation will ruin the city
–I will not allow a casino there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, kendra.
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. that I do believe is a guild function
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely, yes.
Kendra Bancroft: The RA has zero function telling the Guild what it can
and cannot permit
Sudane Erato: the covenants were added to provide a set of standrds for
land use…. under ownership
Satchmo Prototype: in the interest of time, either lets have a final
vote or push this issue off
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh Sudane.
Sudane Erato: they are part of the ownership agreement
Pendari Lorentz: but if the RA feels that a needed build should be in
an area .. then we can approach the guild with that
Sudane Erato: ywes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, the Guild will have a saying *always*
Kendra Bancroft: That’s all I’ saying
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1b1, however, introduces a special bill
Pendari Lorentz: Kendra.. what is your issue with item 1b)3?
Satchmo Prototype: if there is more discourse to have, lets push it off
Eugene Pomeray: i vote 1b)2
Kendra Bancroft: I approbe B3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: where the citizens (non-merchants, so, not Guild
members) would have a voice as well.
Kendra Bancroft: I have no problem with that
Kendra Bancroft: BUT
Kendra Bancroft: if you are giving the Guild a responsability –it is
up to ther Guild to excercise what it feels is the best way to keep that
responsability
Kendra Bancroft: the RA cannot set Guild policy
Pendari Lorentz: right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, but the RA can rule that some things are not
fully under the Guild’s authority 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1b3 simply regards a casino as just another business
? thus, fully (and only) Guild-regulated.
Satchmo Prototype: I wonder if setting up a book store dedicated to the
flying spaghetti monster meets moral standards
Kendra Bancroft: It can petetition the SC to make that determination
Satchmo Prototype: certainly not for some
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whereas 1b1 recognizes that gambling is a special
situation.
Kendra Bancroft: it cannot unilaterally decide that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And allows the citizens (non-Guild members) to have a
saying as well.
Satchmo Prototype: lets issue liscenses for FSM stuff inside the city
walls!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Satchmo 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. the RA majority vote on this issue is 1b)3 ..
citizens.. if you have concerns on standards, I urge you to please join
the guild and/or talk with our Guild Master Kendra.
Kendra Bancroft: I often wonder if the RA realizes it is but a third
branch of a government
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good point 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: I’ve never thought otherwise Kendra =)
Pendari Lorentz: Next item on the agenda.. 1 C) Approval of the MoCA as
proposed by Kendra.
Sudane Erato: yes
Tai Tuppakaka: Satch, I understand your argument regarding the
spaghetti monster, but I don’t think it’s quite the same.
Pendari Lorentz: Kendra, any issues with the concerns proposal included
in this agenda
Pendari Lorentz: item
Kendra Bancroft: I am in agreement to the proposed changes to my
proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, nothing to comment, except for one single
point…
Aliasi Stonebender: (… heh… on a tangental note… now THERE’S a
good Thinker’s topic…)
Pendari Lorentz: state what you want to Gwyneth
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who sets the goals for the MoCA? 😉
Kendra Bancroft: I would imagine the Guild sets the goals –and the
City can agree or disagree with them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds reasonable, Kendra.
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. the original request by the RA included giving
the guild first rights to run the MoCA as a group if they wished
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I would be very comfortable with the Guild
setting its own goals, and present the results in the form of a report
after, say, 3 months, to the RA.
Pendari Lorentz: that is what is in the agenda notecard Gwyneth. Kendra
has stated she is fine with this. Yes?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the rest is really for the Guild to discuss, ie.
if it outsources to a private group or not, etc etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah – on the notecard it states “The City sets the
goals”
Kendra Bancroft: I’m fine with that –if the goals allow for the first
month’s goal to be the actual build
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was actually my wording on the email 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Kendra ? of course!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One month for the building, then the Guild sets up
its own goals
Pendari Lorentz: I am fine with that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For me, the only important issue is: the MoCA is
City-funded, City-built
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest is utter freedom for the Guild to decide :()
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that was a smiley :)=
Kendra Bancroft: And my proposed design is liked?
Melina Loonie: I am leaving now … I will go to the Biergarte, as long
as we still have it. Anybody like to join me?
Pendari Lorentz: have fun Melina =)
Kendra Bancroft: Biergarten isn’t going anywhere
Gwyneth Llewelyn: enjoy yourself Melina 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, the Biergarten is staying.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway – 1C) is passed?
Pendari Lorentz: ok. On this item. RA votes now yes? if yes? what are
your votes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All said “aye”? 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: Aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye for me, of course.
Sudane Erato: yes for me
Eugene Pomeray: aye
Pendari Lorentz: ok. Next! =
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok ? unanimous on that, lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: item 1D all in the RA have voted yes on this proposal.
We would like the guild to consider our payment options if you can =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: D? 😉
Pendari Lorentz: D) Approval of the Rathaus as proposed by Kendra.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Kendra Bancroft: Proposed payment schedule for Rathaus is acceptable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was fast, Kendra 😉
I vote: (via Satchmo Prototype) Aye
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye for me as well.
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Pendari Lorentz: I voted yes.. so moving on! =)
Pendari Lorentz: agenda item 2. Proposal for addition to all issued
covenants (past and future)
Pendari Lorentz: comments? vote now? or vote 7 days?
Satchmo Prototype: vote now
Satchmo Prototype: and Aye 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a proposal from the Guild to the RA to change
the covenant, right?
Kendra Bancroft: Works better for me anyway as I won’t start in earnest
on the new Rathaus unti after I make some headway on MoCA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and yes ? vote now)
Sudane Erato: *sigh* a lot of work to change all the past ones
Eugene Pomeray: vote now
Satchmo Prototype: a lot of work to reduce the lag? sounds like a
reasonable compromise
Sudane Erato: but I certainly agree with the concept
Satchmo Prototype: oh, the actually documents themselves
Pendari Lorentz: I don’t think they have to be added to the ones out
there Sudane.. a notecard sent out with the changes only I’m sure would
be fine?
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: the docs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, we’re allowed to change the covenants
retroactively, right?
Pendari Lorentz: just that they would be considered for current
citizens, not just new ones
Sudane Erato: yes, Gwyn, i think so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Kendra Bancroft: Any of my textures are already within the new covenant
of 512X512
Kendra Bancroft: so anything using my textures can stay as is
Sudane Erato: its mostly all the fachwerks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I agree to include any Guild recommendations on
the covenants, of course.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, definitely an “aye” from me again.
Sudane Erato: they are full of 1024×1024
Aliasi Stonebender: (for the record, I never use textures above 512×512
with one exception, and it’s not in Neualtenburg.)
Kendra Bancroft: I would suggest that we do a redesign on each model of
the fachwerk’s
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: offer them as upgrades and have the citizens swap them
out
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very good proposal!
Sudane Erato: modifiable
Eugene Pomeray: the new fachwerks should have more city feel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please!
Kendra Bancroft: I’d also like to propose a bill
Pendari Lorentz: the item on the floor now is this proposal: 2.
Proposal for addition to all issued covenants (past and future) -The largest
texture allowed in the city will be 512×512 pixels. This applies to all
covenant zones and all structures unless overridden by the
Pendari Lorentz: the Guild Master.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on 2.
Sudane Erato: I agree
Satchmo Prototype: Aye
Kendra Bancroft: May I make a proposal?
Eugene Pomeray: aye
Satchmo Prototype: nope Kendra 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: It will reduce lag greatly
Pendari Lorentz: is it already on the agenda? if not, it will need to
be submitted for next meeting =)
Kendra Bancroft: Clean Air tax
Kendra Bancroft: The city should tax all particle emissions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Pendari Lorentz: please do get a proposal in for our next meeting =)
Pendari Lorentz: agenda item 2 – all RA have voted yes
Kendra Bancroft: seriously –the chimney smoke is killing us
Sudane Erato: particles are covered in the existing covenant
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda item 3)
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: But if we tax them –people will think twice
Satchmo Prototype: yea I noticed that about he chimney’s as well Kendra
Kendra Bancroft: I’m not saying out;aw them
Kendra Bancroft: just charge for the lag u make
Pendari Lorentz: I seriously need a 5 min recess.. my child is needing
to be tended for a moment. I will be right back. Feel free to move on
to agenda item 3. Proposal for Neualtenburg Bonds Bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok ? people, let’s use the upcoming week to
discuss that.
Sudane Erato: agreed Gwyn
Pendari Lorentz: we will need a full proposal.. please do submit a
notecard Kendra, I think it will be a good item to discuss next week =)
Kendra Bancroft: okie mokie
Pendari Lorentz: 3. Proposal for Neualtenburg Bonds Bill
Pendari Lorentz: and I will return shortly.. (3 mins!)
Kendra Bancroft: stop biting your nails, Eugene –it drives me nuts
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I don’t have any objections to the bonds as stated
by Ulrika… I was just wondering where 6 months came from
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Kendra 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Sudane Erato: I have only the objection of applying the existing loans
as bonds under this bill
Sudane Erato: since the city is not good for them
Satchmo Prototype: what is the state of the current loands?
Kendra Bancroft: I agreee, Sudane –they should be new bonds
Sudane Erato: ahh…
Sudane Erato: Satch… I recall I think that we owe about US$550
Sudane Erato: until there is underlying value in the city
Eugene Pomeray: i will be right back
Sudane Erato: there is nothing to issue the bonds agaibnst
Sudane Erato: there is no “security” for the bond holder
Kendra Bancroft: don’t you have gold fillings, Sudane?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: perhaps
Satchmo Prototype: sudane will never smile again 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Aliasi Stonebender: “can we have your kidney?”
Sudane Erato: you have my personal credit 🙂
Sudane Erato: thats enough!
Satchmo Prototype: we can hire Amiee to steal her kidney
Kendra Bancroft: Let’s kidnap Aimee Weber’sd panties
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll have to live with unsecured bonds 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who cares…
Sudane Erato: well… no
Sudane Erato: if we sell bonds now
Satchmo Prototype: what is the payback plan for the current loan?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The value of them reflects N’burg’s ability to be ran
successfully 🙂
Sudane Erato: that cash represents value
Sudane Erato: there is no payback plan
Satchmo Prototype: ah, good deal for the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, Satchmo 🙂
Sudane Erato: it simply is the faith on the growth of NBurg
Satchmo Prototype: bad deal for the loanees
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: but
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the loanees are completely nuts anyway, so…
😉
Sudane Erato: issue bonds
Sudane Erato: thats different
Sudane Erato: you can’t approach bonds the same way as the original
loans
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Ulrika was pretty much interested in having the
original “loans” be converted into bonds.
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: How about we use Garnet’s kisses to back up the bonds
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that she would like all the bonds be
“regulated” under the same bill.
Sudane Erato: shes the big merchant these days 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Sudane Erato: but Gwyn, those need not be considered bonds
Satchmo Prototype: well the original “loans” were never “bonds” it
appears
Sudane Erato: they had that name
Kendra Bancroft: oh please –I’m making a mint on my armour
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, yes, of course.
Sudane Erato: but as Ulrika has shown with her formulas
Sudane Erato: they were not bonds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not saying we “must” consider them as bonds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just that Ulrika would *like* them to be considered
bonds.
Sudane Erato: yes, she would
Sudane Erato: she doesnt buy my concern
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ok Sudane 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: scrolling for a sec
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the RA surely can decide that
Pendari Lorentz: honestly.. I have *no* head for this issue
Satchmo Prototype: so vote party line 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Pen
Pendari Lorentz: it seems fine. but I have no idea what the neg would
be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But this is a quite serious and complex issue.
Sudane Erato: well.. there’s no security
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. I would like a 7 day vote on this proposal
Satchmo Prototype: can you explain what that means Sudane?
Sudane Erato: you take money from someone…
Sudane Erato: and you have nothing to offer them of tangible value
Sudane Erato: unfortuantely
Gwyneth Llewelyn: if I remember correctly, Sudane, Ulrika proposed that
when the City can’t pay back, it simply re-issues new bonds… right?
Sudane Erato: the most tangible value
Kendra Bancroft: we have land
Sudane Erato: we do not have land
Satchmo Prototype: ugg, that’s an ugly solution
Sudane Erato: we have sold most of it
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s like with a bank loan… you have to put
somethign up as collateral. Or, for that matter, on a small scale… a pawn
shop. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Satchmo.
Sudane Erato: yes, alisi
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Aliasi.
Sudane Erato: nobody buys bonds unless they feel they’ll get the money
back in 6 months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (btw, I agree with Pen on this, I’d like a 7-day vote
as well)
Sudane Erato: and, if theres no way to do so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Right now, we can only offer “trust”.
Sudane Erato: excapt buy more bonds3
Sudane Erato: then its a pyramid scheme
Kendra Bancroft: WE could do it like in “The Producers”. Sell more
bonds than 100% percent and make sure N’burg is a flop
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, good point.
Satchmo Prototype: yey pyramid schemes and casinos… we’re on a roll
today
Aliasi Stonebender: So far as I know, Ulrika wasn’t actually proposing
to sell any new bonds, tho… just a system for future bonds,
retrofitting the original loans.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Satchmo!
Pendari Lorentz: lol Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: haha Satch
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, Aliasi.
Sudane Erato: and its *only* the retro fit I have a problem with
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the point still remains ? if we cannot *ever*
offer guarantees….
Sudane Erato: but… I vote for 7 days
Gwyneth Llewelyn: what is the point in having bonds to offer?
Sudane Erato: sure we can *ever* offer guarantees
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a way tp raise capital
Pendari Lorentz: then there would be consideration to accept the
proposal if it were only for future bonds, and did not affect original loans
given to the city?
Sudane Erato: the balnce sheet shows our value
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s still a trust-based system 🙂
Sudane Erato: and now its negative
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … like any other economical system, anyway.
Sudane Erato: when its positive… then we can sell bonds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s still half a year away, at least… hehe
Sudane Erato: perhaps
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. I motion we take this proposal to emails and
forums for a seven day vote
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think I agree with that, Pen.
Satchmo Prototype: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s go to the next polemic topic 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: ok. Next agenda item: 4. Proposal for Finance Bill
Pendari Lorentz: hehe Gwyn
Sudane Erato: no… I think we are all in agreement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: talers, talers…. we need talers 🙂
Sudane Erato: I have only one addition
Satchmo Prototype: first off, we need to take the letters GOM off
anything official
Pendari Lorentz: this math is killing me
Sudane Erato: and that is to add what Satch proposed today in the forum
Sudane Erato: that the exchange value be set each month
Satchmo Prototype: yes I agree to my proposal!
Kendra Bancroft: If you’ll excuse me –since we’ve attended to matters
that deal with the Guild already –I’m gonna log off and get some pizza
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Satchmo.
Satchmo Prototype: later Kendra
Kendra Bancroft: Tschau
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is item 5, Kendra 🙂 Also Guild-related.
Pendari Lorentz: ok Kendra! thank you for being here! =) PS: the build
for the SLCC looks wonderful!!
Kendra Bancroft: oh okay
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll hang for 5
Pendari Lorentz: ok
Kendra Bancroft: and TY!
Satchmo Prototype: want to re-order 4 and 5 for the sake of Pizza?
Aliasi Stonebender: indeed Kendra, I’m building right across from it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with that suggestion, Satchmo. For Kendra’s
sake.
Kendra Bancroft: oh –I’ll have to take a peep, Aliasi
Sudane Erato: well… I think 4 is agreeable to all
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. for 4. I’m hearing 3 yes’s with the added forums
stuff from Satch for item 4?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, “aye” on 4, anyway.
Sudane Erato: why not just approve it?
Satchmo Prototype: aye
Aliasi Stonebender: not just me, mind… collaboration between me and
Jackan Ennui for thinker’s.
Sudane Erato: aye
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. then you don’t need my vote.
Pendari Lorentz: haha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Satchmo Prototype: heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your vote is always valuable 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I just wonder how i’t sgoing to be operationally
carried out
Satchmo Prototype: I mean is Sudane going to have to notify everyone
Satchmo Prototype: of what they owe in $L’s?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the point is, how to determine R’ 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Kendra Bancroft: we should post a money exchange in the Rathaus
Sudane Erato: it will be carried out by a document which must be
consulted by all those who pay in L$
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra ? that was my proposal, lol
Pendari Lorentz: Item 4 passed with majority vote – (pen abstains due
to having NO head for math). Will add Satch’s forum addition and
re-present bill to proposer (Ulrika)
Sudane Erato: before they pay
Pendari Lorentz: if Ulrika has no objections, this bill will be
considered passed
Sudane Erato: I’ve prepared that doc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: That’s cos I’m your alt
Sudane Erato: its on one of the links
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Sudane Erato: and also on the site already
Agenda item: (via Pendari Lorentz) 5. Proposal for Construction Authority
Bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And here we go, hehe
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. we sort of touched on this during the casino
talks :-p
Sudane Erato: its fine with me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, basically, it’s just a clarification of the
Guild/RA interface as regards urban planning.
Pendari Lorentz: does any RA member wish to have a 7 day vote on this
bill proposal?
Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyn.. that is how I see it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really ? lol, I agree right now on that.
Kendra Bancroft: To me this points to why big projects are needed for
the Guild –so that little projects can be done with Guild discretionary
funds
Sudane Erato: it applies only to City-Owned? buildings, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “city structures on city land”
Kendra Bancroft: Right now –we’ve been operating off of Schloss money
Sudane Erato: yes… then I ceratinly agree
Pendari Lorentz: I can agree to this Bill. I honestly think it is how
we have already been functioning.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, it’s just to make it “official”.
Pendari Lorentz: yes Gwyn
Kendra Bancroft: it is –but it’s nice to be official
Satchmo Prototype: I vote aye
Sudane Erato: aye
Kendra Bancroft: I AM Gwyn’s alt
Kendra Bancroft: LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m always assuming that “affecting the performance”
means “affecting the performance negatively”, of course.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hahaha Kendra 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Majority RA vote yes on this bill propsal. Proposal
passed.
Satchmo Prototype: heh true Gwyn
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, you have to watch out for those nasty
FPS-improving gnomes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah wait ? “adversely affect the performance”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, always the negative
Kendra Bancroft: I already started doing this anyways
Kendra Bancroft: like the new streetlights?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s quite right, kendra 🙂
Satchmo Prototype: I propose we arrest Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Satchmo Prototype: for doing that illegally
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft Satchmo
Satchmo Prototype: since we didn’t hav ea bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Pendari Lorentz: that concludes all items on our agenda for today. If
no further comments (on agenda items) I will adjorn this meeting =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need to arrest the builders of the Tiny City first
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, public execution for them.
Kendra Bancroft: and they’re low ad during the day –cos the lights
shut off
Aliasi Stonebender: wow. fastest meeting yet, I’m told.
The meeting closed at 14:26 Linden time.RA Meeting: November 06, 2005
Region: Neualtenburg (246528, 249600)
Local-Position: (174, 165, 172)
Region Meeting on 2005-11-06
Region Pendari Lorentz is in the chair.
Pendari Lorentz: Welcome everyone to the November 6th 2005 Neualtenburg RA Meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can you imagine that I had 4 meetings at the same time for 1 PM SL time? 🙂 Whew.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and the notecards are *still* loading for me, Pen 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: sheesh!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “sheesh” indeed, Al.
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda item 1. Proposal Bill: Neualtenburg Bonds 2
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yay it loaded!)
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: RA thoughts on this proposal? This is a revamp of the first one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … now I just need to load the ones *inside*
Pendari Lorentz: haha Gwyn
Sudane Erato: well… 2 things improve it for me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m listening…
Sudane Erato: one is that the financial pix of NBurg has improved
Pendari Lorentz: true
Sudane Erato: so there is more “value” to base any bonds on
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: and the other…
Sudane Erato: well the conversion of the existing loans
Sudane Erato: is voluntary
Sudane Erato: so primarily new bonds will really be new
Pendari Lorentz: yes… I think those were the two main worries when we were disucssing the first draft
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Sudane Erato: i think the whole system is rather complex
Sudane Erato: but I am basically for it
Pendari Lorentz: I have no real head for it.. but it *seems* like a good thing to me.. I guess I would wonder who would be in charge of maintaining the records? The treasurer?
Sudane Erato: well. thats a good question
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good question.
Sudane Erato: I would prefer not to administer it
Sudane Erato: but perhaps
Sudane Erato: it can be rather fully automated
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What does our illustrious Guildemeisterinn have to say on that? 🙂
Sudane Erato: and not really be an issue
Pendari Lorentz: if it could be automated.. that would be ideal for everyone I would think!
Kendra Bancroft: If it could be automated –that would be far more scalable
Sudane Erato: I think so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so we need to know *who* is going to “automate” it?
Sudane Erato: hehe… yes
Sudane Erato: or alternative,ly
Kendra Bancroft: we should ask Satch if he could
Sudane Erato: who would administer it in the interim
Aliasi Stonebender: well, if it’s in SL fundage, you need a scripter… and Satch is probably the best we have right now.
Sudane Erato: yes..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: true
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. so RA members.. would you vote yes to this bill with the condition that it be worked as an automated process?
Sudane Erato: I would
Pendari Lorentz: I would
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ultimately, I guess the “banking/finantial” responsability falls upon the Guild, so it’s up to the Guild to set it up 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And i would, yes.
Kendra Bancroft: I would say it should not be implemented until we are readu for automation
Pendari Lorentz: right Kendra
Sudane Erato: that makes sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How long would that take?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean the “automation” process.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1 week? 1 month?
Pendari Lorentz: So.. RA action on this proposal: 3 yes votes approves the bill.. the RA’s condition is that the process must become an automated one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pen — I’m just raising the issue, because this means comissioning scriptin work from the Guild, and we should budget it 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: would depend on how busy the person the Guild picks is.
Flyingroc Chung: depends a whole lot on who is implementing it, and how much time he has to devote on it
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t know –and if the Guild treasurer does not wish the responsability of it –I suppose I could take responsability –though my knowledge of accounting is less than my knowledge of scripting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, yes, Aliasi. However, we could have a rough estimate in terms of how many hours of labour for that?
Pendari Lorentz: I’m no scriptor.. but I bet Satch could do it.. yes.. we woud need a proposal from the guild on the scripting costs so that we can approve the budget
Sudane Erato: well… its not a matter of accounting
Sudane Erato: its rather a matter of a complex spreadsheet kind of thing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: that’s right! I always forget Aliasi is a great scriptor as well!
Aliasi Stonebender: I’m a scripter, but I dabble, I could probably do this, it’s just automation, but it’s a larger task than I’ve done before.
Aliasi Stonebender: *just mathmatics
Flyingroc Chung: scripting projects have really highly variable time schedule
Flyingroc Chung: s
Pendari Lorentz: welcome Bond =) click the penguin for an agenda =)
Flyingroc Chung: I mean, they are really difficult to estimate, especially if you do it on your free time
Bond Harrington: sry about not introducing myself earlier
Pendari Lorentz: alright.. how about the RA asks the guild to come up with a budget for this script based on what you think it may be worth (time, use, etc) .. and we can go from there?
Aliasi Stonebender: indeed. still, the basics are easy enough: deposit X linden, get Y each month until the bond is called and you get X back; the complexities are suing th eprinciple as part of your landuse fee and security and such.
Sudane Erato: well the transfer to the landuse fee could be a data export to the treasurer
Sudane Erato: even a simple list
Flyingroc Chung: also, it looks like you might need an external place to store information. Like, perhaps, the nburg web host
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Seldon Metropolitan: back and caught up
Flyingroc Chung: otherwise, you need to budget the cost of maintaining the software as well
Pendari Lorentz: question.. can this process be automated?
Kendra Bancroft: This is where it pisses e off that Ulrika is leaving –she could do this in her sleep
Aliasi Stonebender: oh, it CAN, pend, that’s not the the issue.
Flyingroc Chung: I do not see any technical barrier, only time and effort of a good scripter is needed
Pendari Lorentz: the hows are a guild matter, just a yes or no concerns the RA =)
Aliasi Stonebender: the question is how much of a hassle it is to automate. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: haha.. I can understand that =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, even I have done more complex stuff… 🙂 (and sometimes it even does work!!) lol
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m not volunteering — sorry about that, I can’t find the required “spare time” for that right now.
Aliasi Stonebender: but in that sense, yes, I can confidently state the problem is solvable. interfacing it to the outside world is the touch part
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless you wish it for 2007 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I just make teh pretty
Pendari Lorentz: I would like to then call the action for this proposal: Yes bill proposal passed with condition the process can be automated. Guild will submit a definite yes or no answer and a budget by next RA meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds good.
Flyingroc Chung: Also, because this deals with real oney, I think you’d need to do some extensive testing before rolling it out
Pendari Lorentz: indeed
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Recommendation to the Guild noted 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Alright.. before the next two agenda items.. I have a question and statement in regards to them
Kendra Bancroft: agreed –we will test this with Flyingroc’s money
Seldon Metropolitan: lol
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Flyingroc Chung: I’m a poor grad student, you might have o take my ramen budget
Pendari Lorentz: These two items .. the Notary and Bank were submitted to me by Eugene to be on today’s agenda. I saw the forum discussions and included them. However, I am not certain if these are being proposed as Needed Builds that will need a budget approval by the
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I’m willing to do some testing, no problem *there*. I’m always losing 0.01 US$ in tests with PayPal? and things, hehe
Pendari Lorentz: RA.. or if they are just “we want to do this and we are doing it” sort of builds.. =)
Kendra Bancroft: let’s see at 33 cents per Ramen package that works out to about 10 lindens
Flyingroc Chung: lol
Pendari Lorentz: what do you think Kendra?
Pendari Lorentz: are these ideas yet an issue for the RA?
Kendra Bancroft: I agreewith the proposal –but I might have trouble reaching the deadline of next week
Sudane Erato: there are 2 separate proposals right?
Sudane Erato: that you are refering to?
Pendari Lorentz: yes.. there are 2..
Kendra Bancroft: yes
Sudane Erato: they seem pretty distinctly different
Pendari Lorentz: if these are being proposed as Needed City Builds.. the RA needs to first vote if we think they are and therefore will receive payment from the city
Pendari Lorentz: if they are just pet projects, we don’t have to be involved at all
Sudane Erato: well.. the Notary is not a build at all, is it?
Aliasi Stonebender: It does require money, though, so the question is valid.
Sudane Erato: I see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was reading the notecard, and no, there is really no “need” for a building
Kendra Bancroft: But as thebudgetary issues require me to find out charges for services –I “might” hve trouble obtainng an answer –the scripting for this is out of my field
Pendari Lorentz: Not really.. it seems the Notary could easily be added to the new Rathaus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Pen 🙂
Sudane Erato: sure
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. I hear you Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s more an issue of paying Zarf a L$ 1000, and that’s all 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: I have already planned for a NBotary office in the Rathaus design
Sudane Erato: yes… thats the issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent, Kendra!
Sudane Erato: is the service needed at this time?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Consider the costs.
Aliasi Stonebender: although in principle it doesn’t seem too bad. our deeds don’t have to rely on SL permissions and you can roll the fee into the land price.
Sudane Erato: the bank is another interesting issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: From what I understood, Zarf is only charging you L$ 1000 to use his system.
Pendari Lorentz: Based on what I read in the forums.. it seems the RA already likes the idea of both .. but do we feel they deserve payment by the city for implementation.. Lets take the first one first.. The Notary
Pendari Lorentz: RA?
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t care if you store dustmaps in there –butr the office space wiill be available
Flyingroc Chung: there is also a charge per document that you notarize, right?
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I know how the LL permission system sucks, so I’m definitely in favour of spending the extra L$ 1000 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How much is that charge??
Aliasi Stonebender: currently Zarf charges L$100 a document, with L$50 for each signature over two.
Pendari Lorentz: I would vote yes this is something the city could need.. not just for ourselves, but I think it could bring business to the city from outside as well
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s noted he might raise it to L$200 / L$75 addl sig.
Kendra Bancroft: so we just charge moneys to nw tenants as “legal” fees
Sudane Erato: what about all the old ddeeds?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Pendari Lorentz: hmmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not *too* expensive considering the alternatives.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Kendra.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps we could give “Old” tenants a choice?
Pendari Lorentz: I would hate to charge citizens for a service they would not use.. that would be much like taxing don’t you think?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm well
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: well pend, the point is they WOULD be using it.
Aliasi Stonebender: you’d HAVE to use ti to get a land deed. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Either the RA says that “all deeds HAVE to be extra-strongly-cryptographically-signed”…. and we include the fee for that…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … or you wuld give them a choice
Pendari Lorentz: ahhh! ok.. then yes.. what about the old deeds? Gwyn you suggest giving the old tenats a choice?
Kendra Bancroft: The city should bite the bullket on the legal fees for the citizens we now have
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you can use a quick & dirty method, or a safe one: your choice.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Pen.
Seldon Metropolitan: I for one would take the notarized version for both the security and for support of the technology
Pendari Lorentz: That I could think as a good idea too Kendra.. that would be a part of our budget then.. if we think we could afford that
Aliasi Stonebender: I don’t know, I’d hate to have people opt for quick&dirty and have it bite us all.
Kendra Bancroft: w’ere talking 20 deeds atr 100 per
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: That’s not a lot of money for the city to convert
Flyingroc Chung: Does zarf have to be present for people to notarize something?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you — the permission system is not *that* bad, I’ve tried repeatedly to hack the SL client 😉
Aliasi Stonebender: No, he just installs the desk.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s good to know, Aliasi.
Aliasi Stonebender: eh, Gwyn, after the god-mode hack awhile back, someone just might be a better hacker than you. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They might.
Sudane Erato: but remember… the trasurer must keep off-site records
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As everything related to security… it’s a trade-off, always.
Aliasi Stonebender: No slur on your ability, just some people are /really/ determined.
Pendari Lorentz: Alright RA.. would you approve this as a Needed City “service/build” and accept the proposal of the city paying for the Notary costs of the current citizens.. New Citizen’s will have the cost included at their land deed sale?
Sudane Erato: the deeds are not the only record
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I know, Aliasi — and the system is not *that* good, you know.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree on that, Pen.
Flyingroc Chung: Would it be reasonable for the city to ask zarf for a commission on he notary service?
Pendari Lorentz: I think the deeds being notarized would be the only thing the city would pay for on past citizens.. other documents citizens past or future would have to pay for themselves
Flyingroc Chung: I guess like a tax for the notary
Flyingroc Chung: I guess like a tax for the notary
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, basically, the alternative is to develop our own system, but that is way higher (in terms of costs) than paying a fee for Zarf’s system
Kendra Bancroft: I think it would be reasonable –unlessarf becomes a citizen
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. good point Kendra
Seldon Metropolitan: agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm that would be an idea, Kendra 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Sudane.. what do you think about what I just asked the RA?
Sudane Erato: about us dooing it?
Sudane Erato: or about implementing his system?
Pendari Lorentz: You: Alright RA.. would you approve this as a Needed City “service/build” and accept the proposal of the city paying for the Notary costs of the current citizens.. New Citizen’s will have the cost included at their land deed sale?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: About the city paying for the costs of the old deeds
Sudane Erato: I will agree reluctantly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry for repeating that, Pen 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: no worries Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why “reluctantly”? Because of the costs?
Sudane Erato: i’m not totally convinced it s needed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
Pendari Lorentz: I’m thinking future here
Sudane Erato: and thats perhaps a good reason
Sudane EratoGwyneth Llewelyn listens to Sudane/color
Pendari Lorentz: as Neualt grows and we expand.. we will not always be the small family we are now
Sudane Erato: thats why I will agree
Sudane Erato: but there reamins the hesiatation
Pendari Lorentz: you just think it is not needed at this time?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let me put this into another way. How long would it take to develop something similar?
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: anyone can waq
Sudane Erato: we have in place a more basic system
Pendari Lorentz: err, walk into a local bank and become a notary
Sudane Erato: in the future… this may be necessary
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can say from my experience that it would take, uh, about 4 Gwyn-hours — 2 to read manuals, two to develop. Of course, in my personal case, that means about, uh, 4-48 months until I get the time, lol
Pendari Lorentz: as for the scripting.. I have no idea how to merge those two worlds
Sudane Erato: so… perhaps its just a matter of when
Sudane Erato: hehe gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: are we obliged to keep the service in perpetuity? If it doesn’t work it –we are free to go bck to our current system
Pendari Lorentz: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: we are risking only some 3K
Sudane Erato: true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or to a different one. That is a good point. Yes.
Pendari Lorentz: true… but we also have other builds the Guild is working on that we still have to pay for.. hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Pendari Lorentz: I agree.. 3k doesn’t seem like a huge risk
Flyingroc Chung: well, if we do all our deeds with the current system, we might get locked-in to it by virtue of the cost of converting again to some other system.
Kendra Bancroft: 3K isn’t gonna make a dent –and you are only paying for the Rathaus at this point
Sudane Erato: well… roc, we’ll still have the existing deeds
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. could this service make more people trust the process better, and therefore bring us more citizens?
Seldon Metropolitan: yes
Sudane Erato: we wouldn’t have to back out
Kendra Bancroft: The schloss is paid for –and the guild is footing the bill on the Moca
Pendari Lorentz: if so.. the city could make that money back with just a few new sold deeds correct?
Aliasi Stonebender: it seems so to me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, that’s assuming Zarf’s reputation is flawless 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Seldon Metropolitan: I did quite a bit of checking up on him
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good 🙂
Seldon Metropolitan: when the service was first announced
Pendari Lorentz: alright .. RA.. any objections to voting approval or not right now?
Kendra Bancroft: Neualtenburg must be at the vanguard!
Sudane Erato: i agree
Pendari Lorentz: I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, I also agree. I still think it would take us an endless time to develop something similar.
Kendra Bancroft: And I need to make my tits bigger
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL!
Pendari Lorentz: 3 RA votes approve.. Action item for this proposal: You: Alright RA.. would you approve this as a Needed City “service/build” and accept the proposal of the city paying for the Notary costs of the current citizens.. New Citizen’s will have the cost inclu
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the Bank now? 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes Pen
Pendari Lorentz: err.. .haha.. you get the idea of the action :-p
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. Bank.. same premise.. Agenda item 3.. RA: is this a needed city build? thoughts?
Sudane Erato: well. I feel that the bank is a good proposal…. but
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a simple matter of building an ATM like machine
Sudane Erato: it needs to be modular
Sudane Erato: we need a simple system now
Sudane Erato: for people to have land fee accounts
Sudane Erato: then perhaps in time
Sudane Erato: we can add other services
Sudane Erato: to exapnd to a fiull fledged bank
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, an dunlike the notary, the principles of SL ATM machines are well known. 😉
Kendra Bancroft: build is minimal –we stick a new ATM in the bank
Sudane Erato: well.. again its scrpting
Bond Harrington: This would be in addition to the normal “financial” building we have now. Kendra’s right, it would just be the matter of adding an ATM
Pendari Lorentz: I like the idea of a bank.. I think it can be a real asset to the city.. so I would vote yes for it being a needed build.. of course the next step if it were approved, would be to get the proposal from the Guild on what it would take and cost the city
Bond Harrington: BTW, do we still have the GOM machine there?
Sudane Erato: I agree pen
Seldon Metropolitan: I think this would be a great asset to the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me ask you something… the bank is mostly a web site, not really a building, right?
Kendra Bancroft: e have a bank build already –if you like I can work up a budget for sprucing it up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. the building is just the “fun” part of it.
Sudane Erato: well. now,, there is no bank
Pendari Lorentz: other than the build of the atm type machine Gwyn
Seldon Metropolitan: especially if some of the current account information was availiable from it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the ATM is irrelevant.
Pendari Lorentz: which would be needed as a thing to talk to the website
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. it’s “eye candy” I mean.
Flyingroc Chung: well, it would most likely be mostly a database
Sudane Erato: the website only has “display” information
Pendari Lorentz: I wouldn’t think it would just be eye candy..
Sudane Erato: and a button for paypal
Sudane Erato: all the rest is manual
Flyingroc Chung: and scripts that would interact with the database
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But what database?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does that exist?
Sudane Erato: no
Pendari Lorentz: I was thinking it would work like the shop atms and the gom type atms.. something that talked between our world and the real one
Sudane Erato: it is manual now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I read things like: “The bank would simply provide accounts for all citizens that the city could deposit or withdraw money from.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, hmm…
Sudane Erato: again… the proposal is a bit too complex to start
Flyingroc Chung: yup, that means some sort of external database. Most web hosts will provise MySQL DB access.
Pendari Lorentz: in other words.. I thought the atm would 100% be needed for this to work
Sudane Erato: some in world interface is needed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the important bit is not the ATM, Pen — is the whole application server 😛
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Pendari Lorentz: Gwyn just made me drool my drink in confusion
Pendari Lorentz: *blush*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: Yes… if nothing else, Hank Ramos has an open source one you can base future work on. 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not my intention 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: (ATM-wise)
Kendra Bancroft: true –are there not opensource ATMs available now scriptwise?
Flyingroc Chung: I’ve developed a similar application for my land business, it takes about a week or so of scripting to get some basic functionality done. (but I’m not volunteering, sry, too much other stuff)
Pendari Lorentz: oh yes! I remember finding that and posting it in the Neualt forums Aliasi, I had no idea what it was for though.. haha
Aliasi Stonebender: although they don’t talk outside of Sl – all of that is handled through character strings.
Flyingroc Chung: at least for L$ based accounts
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, doing XML-RPC thingies to talk to web-based servers is my personal hobby… it was launched in June 2004 in SL, and my first thingy worked in September (I just joined in the end of July, lol)
Flyingroc Chung: paypal accounts would be more complex
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nah
Kendra Bancroft: I could build the actual ATM (not script) in about 10 minutes –so the build is not theissue
Aliasi Stonebender: ah, so, unlike, say, me, you know WTF to do. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Quoting Kendra, “I do those during my sleep”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, I simply don’t have time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But i can give a rough estimate on how long it takes.
Kendra Bancroft: Maybe we can persuade Ulrika to knowck one out?
Kendra Bancroft: It wouldn’t be much different than her vendor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since she *has* 99% of the code already.
Pendari Lorentz: Ok. RA Members.. it sounds like we have some doubts on what we really want to ask the guild to present to us for this proposal.. shall we take our 7 day voting period? Or are you ready to vote now to get a drafted main proposal from the guild?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have perhaps 60% of it, but I volunteer that gladly
Pendari Lorentz: I’m fine with voting now to get a proposal from the guild that is more solid
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure.
Sudane Erato: I suggest we disuss this for the 7 day period
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree as well
Sudane Erato: oh
Sudane Erato: well… if you wish
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. I tricked you didn’t I Sudane…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Pendari Lorentz: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and i would also like to suggest to consider outsourcing it to Ulrika, as said, she has most of the code ready.
Pendari Lorentz: /nod
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, at elast I think she does, but I can forward her my stuff.
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, it’d be unusual for the Guild to outsource stuff,. but I don’t think there’s actually anything /forbidding/ that, Kendra?
Sudane Erato: it seems reasonable that the Guild could employ Ulrika, no matter what her relationship to NBurg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I even have some things that tie into her name2key database as well, hehe
Kendra Bancroft: technically –until she leaves –she’s still a Guild member
Pendari Lorentz: Sudane, since this is nothing final.. would you be comfortable with an action vote today that just requested a more formal draft from the Guild on what this proposal would involve?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well — my only suggestion is because I trust Ulrika with that 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: actually, I think ulrika kinda volunteered already
Sudane Erato: yes, thats fine 🙂
Flyingroc Chung: Ulrika Zugzwang 10-13-2005 09:39 PM I can have most of the work done, as it will have to be integrated into the website and is fairly similar to the vendor code I’ve already done.
Pendari Lorentz: my wording was off earlier.. I apologize *blush*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but that was before her leaving 😛
Flyingroc Chung: oh yea
Pendari Lorentz: Gwyneth.. would you agree the same?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
Aliasi Stonebender: but she hasn’t formally left, yet.
Kendra Bancroft: She hasn’t left yet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good to hear that, Kendra 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, pen — I agree we have the 7-day voting period
Pendari Lorentz: LOL
Kendra Bancroft: ownership of her Schloss land is still her’s
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although I say “yes” on the bank on general principles.
Pendari Lorentz: Gwyneth, since this is nothing final.. would you be comfortable with an action vote today that just requested a more formal draft from the Guild on what this proposal would involve?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just the specific issues that make we wonder 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sorry, Pen — yes, of course 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with that 🙂
Sudane Erato: and yes from me
Kendra Bancroft: I would request that the RA e-mail me a formal request of what I’m supoosed to provide
Pendari Lorentz: yes from me as well. Action for agenda item 3: RA requests a more formal draft from the Guild on what this proposal would involve
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: no problem Kendra =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree to Kendra’s request 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: cos –ya know –I’m blonde
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’d like to add on the agenda that I agree on general principles.
Pendari Lorentz: lol Kendra
Sudane Erato: I certainly agree on general principles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You too, kendra?
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda item 4: 4. Proposal for Constitutional Amendment to Article VI, Section 2
Pendari Lorentz: RA thoughts on this proposal?
Kendra Bancroft: and yes te carpet textures match the drape texrtures
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just for the record, who suggested the amendment?
Pendari Lorentz: lol Kendra
Aliasi Stonebender: I meant to submit this through Satchmo, but t’was me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and I remind you that we sadly lack a 2/3 majority on that
Aliasi Stonebender: You may recall the forum discussion.
Pendari Lorentz: Aliasi Stonebender submitted this amendment proposal
Aliasi Stonebender: yeah, I didn’t know that until now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Aliasi, thanks, as said, it’s just for the record 🙂
Sudane Erato: I don’t think the departure part is enforceable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I certainly agree.
Aliasi Stonebender: the old 7-day one wasn’t enforceable either.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: no exactly
Flyingroc Chung: doesnt this conflict with the “no departure ultimatum” part of the consitution?
Sudane Erato: so having any one is not a good idea
Pendari Lorentz: Yes.. we can talk a bit about it… but we cannot get a full vote on this today unfortunatly.. however we can take it to the 7 day vote and get Satch and Eugene’s votes taht way
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Pen
Kendra Bancroft: She’s giving notice and willing to work out a transition strategy –it’s not really an ulktimatum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hmm, Flyingroc… actually, that should be the SC’s job to comment on that
Aliasi Stonebender: Well, I don’t care so much about this particular phrase, it’s just if it doesn’t apply, it shouldn’t be there in /some/ form.
Sudane Erato: clint, could you take it outside?:)
Flyingroc Chung: just asking
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Clint… you’re a bit out of order with that giant zebra, LOL
Clint Turner: sorry guys
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Clint Turner: can i be let out
Pendari Lorentz: hehe.. there are a lot of little things like that I think could use modifying int he constitution.. Since I live by that darn thing, I have red all over my copy with notes *blush*
Clint Turner: thx 😀
Clint Turner: take care all gotta go
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Pen 🙂
Kendra Bancroft: As departures go –Ulrika is being more than resonable to create a smooth transition
Pendari Lorentz: oh my! haha.. take care Clint.. have fun =)
Pendari Lorentz: *wave*
Kendra Bancroft: Though if I had my way –I’d place her in the stocks and not let her leave
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in any case, this wouldn’t have retroactive enforcement, so no problem on that.
Sudane Erato: but having anything that s not enforceable… is that a good idea?
Aliasi Stonebender: it’s more a hopeful statement than anything else – after all, the only real punishment the city has for /any/ infraction is exile, basically.
Pendari Lorentz: how is it not enforcable?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What Aliasi said, lol
Sudane Erato: I have had 3 citizens now…
Sudane Erato: simply leave
Aliasi Stonebender: I leave. What the hell do YOU intend to do about it, Pendari? (theoretical question)
Pendari Lorentz: oh.. I see
Sudane Erato: 4 actually
Pendari Lorentz: lol Aliasi
Pendari Lorentz: I’ll stalk you of course :-p
Sudane Erato: the 4th has disappeared
Pendari Lorentz: *wink*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙁
Aliasi Stonebender: but what this DOES do
Sudane Erato: what could be done?
Aliasi Stonebender: is if someone doesn’t give notice, we at least have grounds to simply reclaim the land… giving notice means they could sell their deed, after all.
Pendari Lorentz: ack!! emergencey afk.. super fast brb!!
Flyingroc Chung: does this mean if someone leave, his or her land will have to be kept empty for 30 days?
Sudane Erato: but thats the whole point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing really, except to accept our scorn until the end of time 🙂
Sudane Erato: these are people who alreday are abandoning their land
Kendra Bancroft: shun
Kendra Bancroft: we shun them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We post them on the Neualtenburg’s Distrust List 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: but then we have a firm “legal” standing to claim it… it’s already in the ToS, so it’s not /strictly/ needed in the constitution, but after the forum talk I figured I’d see how a version would fly.
Sudane Erato: the only land we have to keep empty would be people who have not declared their intention to leave
Sudane Erato: like Fedihlim
Sudane Erato: who has disappeared
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Gwyneth LlewelynSeldon Metropolitan vanishes/color
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Seldon 🙂
Aliasi Stonebender: I see no Aliasi here.
Kendra Bancroft: we burn their effigys in townsqquare and get Madame Maracas to put a hex on them?
Seldon Metropolitan: we really need a way to force avatars into stocks witha majority vote
Flyingroc Chung: ok, here’s a hypothetical, person A says he leaves, and his land is sold to person B. Person A then decides to stay. Will he be able to claim his land back?
Bond Harrington: Do we need to put in a clause about renouncing citizenship
Sudane Erato: or into the guillitoune
Bond Harrington: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Sudane Erato: that might be better
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All confusing matters.
Sudane Erato: welll…. let us refer it to discussion for 7 days
Aliasi Stonebender: see, it’s a topic we do need to hammer out.
Kendra Bancroft: we take away their chickenhat
Sudane Erato: true Aliasi
Seldon Metropolitan: lol
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, all future chickenhats need secret backdoors to auto-delete.
Pendari Lorentz: back.. so sorry
Seldon Metropolitan: put some secret coding in the chicken hat thats activated if you skip out
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Pen 😀
Kendra Bancroft: No Chickenhat for YOU!
Pendari Lorentz: thank you.. I was thinking while afk and everything I thought of I countered.. haha.. so yes.. the 7 days is needed anyway, so lets take it
Sudane Erato: yes
Pendari Lorentz: Action for Agenda item 4: referred to 7 day vote due to amendment changings needing unanimous RA approval and only 3 are in attendance
Gwyneth Llewelyn: unanimous?
Sudane Erato: agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Pendari Lorentz: did I spell it wrong?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I thought a 2/3 majority would be enough!
Pendari Lorentz: hmm.. or am I wrong in the oh yes.. Gwyn is right
Pendari Lorentz: I’ll note that correction in the action summary.. sorry!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe no need to apologise, Pen, i was just wondering if I didn’t remember that bit correctly
Pendari Lorentz: Agenda item 5. Confirmation Hearing for New SC Member – Aliasi Stonebender
Pendari Lorentz: you did Gwyn.. I was in la la land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on that 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, “aye on the vote of confidenceon Aliasi”
Pendari Lorentz: ok.. there has never been a confirmation hearing before
Pendari Lorentz: hehe
Sudane Erato: I suggest we approve Alliasi by aclamation!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: yea!
Gwyneth Llewelyn *howls*
Pendari Lorentz: I’m assuming this is the chance the RA gets to ask any questions it may have?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: The Guild has no objection
Aliasi Stonebender: yes, pend.
Pendari Lorentz: I may have the only question… hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have some interesting news to share…
Kendra Bancroft: I need to log off , gang
Kendra Bancroft: Ciao!
Sudane Erato: bye 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: Aliasi.. when I first met you down in the valley, we talked a bit about Neualt… at the time you stated you had no interest in the Government and wanted to do your own thing. Now that you are up for an SC position.. has your wanting to participate in
Bond Harrington: later Kendra
Pendari Lorentz: the government changed enough that you feel you could be an asset in this role (as you are already an incredible asset otherwise!! ) =)
Aliasi Stonebender: That’s a good question, and one I’ve thought about myself. On the one, my opinion hasn’t actually changed; I don’t have any wish to seek out a position. However:
Aliasi Stonebender: on this, Ulrika came to me and asked, and I stated quite simply – I’m not opposed. And given I’ve made a commitment to Nburg, if I’m /asked/, that’s different.
Sudane Erato: bravo
Pendari Lorentz: =)
Pendari Lorentz: That’s good enough for me! =)
Bond Harrington: That’s good, because you might be getting her job
Sudane Erato: hehe
Aliasi Stonebender: The horror.
Pendari Lorentz: I think that is the plan Bond.. haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *may* not have an option, actually, Aliasi…. but that’s an issue for the SC.
Aliasi Stonebender: (Although it would make my occasional drop-ins on Prokofy’s “THAT DAMMED PROK” discussion/rants that much more interesting!)
Pendari Lorentz: alright.. I have no objections.. and I look forward to having someone new in the SC.. yay for Aliasi! =)
Pendari Lorentz: lol Aliasi
Seldon Metropolitan: 😀
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Pendari Lorentz: if no objections then… I will call this meeting adjourned =)
Sudane Erato: great
Pendari Lorentz: Thank you everyone for coming! Logs will be posted by Tuesday at the latest! =)RA Meeting: December 11, 2005
Sudane Erato: not until we have Eugene
Keltrien Baker: well, that was painful
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes… well…
Keltrien Baker: : )
Sudane Erato: hi Keltrien
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or Satchmo
Ed Baron: BRB
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Keltrien ? welcome : )
Keltrien Baker: Hello everyone
Keltrien Baker smiles to everyone
Gwyneth Llewelyn *waves*
Sudane Erato: sit down!!
Keltrien Baker: As soon as everything rezzes in I will grab a seat
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should take a few minutes… hehe
Keltrien Baker: runnning a little slow today, it was a battle getting online in the first place
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, most people have complained about the same…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Sudane Erato: yes
Keltrien Baker tries not to step on anyone
Seldon Metropolitan: sok , might wake me up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, our meetings *can* be boring ? but we haven’t even *started*
Seldon Metropolitan: well, I was tellign sudane, Im fighting insomnia and on my 28th hour awake
Sudane Erato: amazing!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww
Ed Baron: back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s terrible, you shouldn’t be staying in front of a computer, Seldon.
Seldon Metropolitan: Ive tried laying down
Seldon Metropolitan: I went bowling
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That will demand your attention…. and make you less prone to relaxing
Aliasi Stonebender: We could give you a concussion!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh pfft Aliasi
Seldon Metropolitan: mmmm concussion
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I tend to use some simple meditation techniques when fighting insomnia…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mind you, *very* basic ones ? I’m not really an expert
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The trick seems to be concentrating first on relaxing every muscle, this gets boring soon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then to focus on a simple object in your mind
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I use the number 7
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Seldon Metropolitan: I was doing the flesh drain exercise earlier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Seldon Metropolitan: where you focus on your skin falling away
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Ed Baron: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s news to me : )
Seldon Metropolitan: but It was at the point where I wanted to make the meeting
Seldon Metropolitan: so I didnt get too relaxed
Sudane Erato: so maybe we should start
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ack, so it’s all our fault for you not to get proper sleep…
Sudane Erato: heres Kendra
Seldon Metropolitan: mostly its your fault : D
Sudane Erato: Hi!
Ed Baron: hullo kendra
Kendra Bancroft: Hullo –by next week –you’ll be in the New Rathaus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi there Kendra : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Seldon Metropolitan: yay
Sudane Erato: great!
Seldon Metropolitan: next week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Satchmo may still join us…
Kendra Bancroft: yep
Sudane Erato: should we start with Winter?
Sudane Erato: or Elections?
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Aliasi Stonebender: well, at the least, can have the meeting for the recording and refer the rest to the 7-day discussion deal.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well…. perhaps we should ask kendra how her time is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: She’s valuable on the Winter festival discussion.
Kendra Bancroft: My time?
Sudane Erato: we could discuss winter first anyway
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, “available time”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Sudane Erato: winter festival
Kendra Bancroft: I’m available –but Kelt is organizing this one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wow!
Kendra Bancroft: I’m just a happy worker bee
Sudane Erato: yes… I asked him to get involved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So how is *your* available time, Kelt? : )
Keltrien Baker smiles
Keltrien Baker: I am at your service
Kendra Bancroft: I thought it was time for me to let someone else have the headaches
Keltrien Baker: I own my own business in RL, so my time is nflexible
Satchmo Prototype: so sorry I’m late
Keltrien Baker: flexible that is
Sudane Erato: hello Satchmo!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Spoken wisely, Kendra : )
Satchmo Prototype: been so screwed up with time today
Satchmo Prototype: between local and SL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hello Satchmo, thanks for joining us : )
Seldon Metropolitan: tell me about it satch
Aliasi Stonebender: A wise decision, Kendra.
Kendra Bancroft: Though I will open the cabaret for New Year’s Eve –and the skate rink is open to any who wish to hold events there
Aliasi Stonebender: hm
Aliasi Stonebender: “Class and Skate”…
Keltrien Baker: I need to get a handle on everything that’s going on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we have a quorum now, Sudane? : )
Sudane Erato: i think so…
Sudane Erato: 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good 😀
Sudane Erato: of 5
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s start on the Winter Festival then.
Kendra Bancroft: I have one question –do we like the benches system in here –or would you all rather sit at a big round table?
Sudane Erato: yes… someone should present the issues
Kendra Bancroft: at the Neu Rathaus
Keltrien Baker: I like not having to get up
Keltrien Baker: : )
Aliasi Stonebender: I kind of like the benches.
Sudane Erato: me too
Aliasi Stonebender: gives it a “New England town hall” feel.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anything goes, so long as you don’t have crazy sit anims, lol : )
Sudane Erato: oh yes…
Sudane Erato: default sits only
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes please.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s start then on the Winter Festival.
Kendra Bancroft: Okay —benches it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need to discuss… dates
Gwyneth Llewelyn: list of events
Gwyneth Llewelyn: promotion : )
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The two first ones are important, as we should “tie” them into the overall Linden Winter Festival thingy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Melting Snow”, like I call it, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ed Baron: whats the lindens winter fest dates?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It starts on the 14th
Kendra Bancroft: Same as King Kong?
Sudane Erato: this wednesday
Kendra Bancroft: Good luck with THAT
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and ends on the 21st with the traditional snowball fight, Lindens vs. residents. This year, with unlimited avatars per sim, they’re seriously outnumbered, hehe
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ed Baron: LOL
Aliasi Stonebender: hey now, King Kong, while by all appearances an excellent movie, is “only” 3 hours.
Sudane Erato: as the snowballs “step” thru the air
Kendra Bancroft: Then we should start on the 15th and really get going on the 22nd
Ed Baron: i agree
Sudane Erato: that sounds good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Kendra Bancroft: Technically King Kong is 12 hours –as I will no doubt see it 4 times
Ed Baron: LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 15th, hmm, that is Thursday?
Seldon Metropolitan: thats alot of monkey
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ed Baron: yes
Ed Baron: 15th s a thursday
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s good, I can reserve a slot for Thinker’s on that day, lol
Kendra Bancroft: Can we get flyingroc to climb the clock tower and get buzzed by triplanees?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Flyingroc recently had a makeover, lol
Ed Baron: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some of his, uh, “friends” took him on a shopping spree at PixelDolls? ; )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a pity Eugene isn’t around
Satchmo Prototype: note the product placement in the RA logs
Satchmo Prototype: good money for that : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: because he suggested the “Awards Cerimony”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (haha Satchmo!)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I liked that idea altogether, btw
Sudane Erato: yes… the awards ceremony would be very nice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not “wintery” but unusual
Kendra Bancroft: I agree
Ed Baron: true true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you think we could use Ulrika’s palace for that? : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s definitely one of the more impressive structures for a “formal” evening!
Kendra Bancroft: absoluutely –I’ll get the throne room ready for that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yay!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Sudane Erato: hehe….
Aliasi Stonebender: SOunds good if we can use it.
Sudane Erato: there’s a throne? !
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks to the untiring Kendra, the Cabaret is also pretty much finished
Kendra Bancroft: What’s a palace without a throneroom?
Sudane Erato: yay!
Kendra Bancroft: Nobody uses the throne
Sudane Erato: true I guess
Sudane Erato: oh : (
Ed Baron: yes the cabaret looks great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, just confirmed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Friday, 2 PM, Moon & myself will open it up officially, hehe
Kendra Bancroft: this friday?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, the 16th then
Kendra Bancroft: are you putting on a show?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll see what we can come up with ; )
Kendra Bancroft: let me know if you need anything installed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We always play silly for a couple of hours or so, and get 5-6 people together : )
Kendra Bancroft: Seems more than that –my dwell in Altenburg is through the roof
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing *too* fancy… hmm… I wonder if I can get Moon to host some cybering classes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ; )
Ed Baron: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: When would be a good day for the Award cerimony?
Kendra Bancroft: This month has Altenburg at almost 3K in traffic
Satchmo Prototype: heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’d need a judge panel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wow, Kendra!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Thinker’s on 2 PM at Altenburg
Ed Baron: ill judge
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Ed : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Eugene has suggested several categories
Ed Baron: im very judgemental
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we need a mechanism to propose candidates
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What would you suggest?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, a date and hour….
Kendra Bancroft: Create an awards group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh no ? not another group!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless LL comes out with 250 groups next Tuesday…
Sudane Erato: that would be nice : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As if.
Kendra Bancroft: I had to quit being a sexy transgender just so I could join Ed’s group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *could* use the Neualtenburg group, though.
Ed Baron: LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh lol, Kendra ? you’ll always be a sexy TG to us : )
Ed Baron: i thank u 1000000 times for that
Sudane Erato: well… it really needs a cleanup project
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, Sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although it’s a nice way to keep in touch with people *once* interested in N’burg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: still good for some spamming : )
Sudane Erato: many folks ask about joining the NBurg group….
Ed Baron: like me =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Really, they do?
Aliasi Stonebender: well
Sudane Erato: and I say that it isn’t functioning now
Seldon Metropolitan: umm Id like to get in the nburg group at some point
Aliasi Stonebender: the constitution still mentions the group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s pretty useless, Seldon
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm good point, Aliasi…
Seldon Metropolitan: useless or no,
Satchmo Prototype: hehe well lets clean it up… or… heh I’d like to drop out
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s why people want to join, they think they need to
Seldon Metropolitan: its a title
Sudane Erato: that was to be a separate proposal of mine
Kendra Bancroft: Sudane 00that top looks so good on you –I should take it out of rotation –so you have an exclusive
Sudane Erato: so that we have a convenient communication tool
Sudane Erato: hehe..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: ty Kendra : )
Aliasi Stonebender: that’s when I run to buy it RIGHT NOW just to flaunt what you said, Kendra.
Aliasi Stonebender: well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I agree on that idea, Sudane… I mean the group being used for that…
Aliasi Stonebender: maybe after the meeting.
Sudane Erato: would be better if you sold lots,,, tho
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Order, please! *knocks with hammer on table*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Ed Baron: =)
Sudane Erato: : )
Satchmo Prototype: I’d like to order french fries
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We definitely need Pen do make these meetings more efficient : )
Satchmo Prototype: I have a craving
Sudane Erato: yes! we do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t talk top me about French fries, Satchmo, it’s my dinner time and I’m starving, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *to
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know what.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s make Eugene a “victim”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since he has suggested the Awards Cerimony….
Sudane Erato: poor Eugene
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s up to him to set it up.
Kendra Bancroft: GODDAMNIT –now I’m gonna have to make a cheeseburger and fries for dinner –and my jaw still hurtz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, he’ll love to!
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: Eugene willl be great
Seldon Metropolitan: way to delegate : D
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eugene is always frustrated because he doesn’t build or script, but running this kind of event, it’s just perfect for him.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *And* it was his suggestion.
Sudane Erato: i agree
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –this should be Eugene’s puppy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, Seldon ? the trick is to do it always on people who aren’t online ; )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Ed Baron: LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s settled, then.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Sudane Erato: yes… agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, the ice Ring.
Satchmo Prototype: lol, I think Eugene is a good fit too
Kendra Bancroft: The Eisbahn you mean
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Something so wonderful *cannot* go unused
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, lol ? I mean that : )
Ed Baron: ill run an event there
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Got you, Ed : )
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll set it up for event scheduling
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What will you do?
Ed Baron: i dont care
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sexiest skating outfit? ; )
Ed Baron: anything really
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we need to have an idea
Ed Baron: German skating outfit?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that we can promote it
Seldon Metropolitan: 5000$L best in thong and ice skates? ; )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: German skating outfit sounds good.
Ed Baron: LOL
Ed Baron: german something
Ed Baron: kepping with the theme
Kendra Bancroft: I found during the Oktoberfest –that having contests really sells the event
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re quite right!
Ed Baron: yeah best german on skates sounds good
Kendra Bancroft: How about figure skating competition?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How many snowman contests have been announced so far…? that’s always a great one.
Ed Baron: ooo
Kendra Bancroft: we could have a panel of judges giving out numbers
Kendra Bancroft: and award medals
Ed Baron: OOO!!!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, kendra ? that sounds like an idea
Ed Baron: i like
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What time & date do you suggest, Ed?
Kendra Bancroft: Like a small olympics
Ed Baron: saturday nights best for me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Saturday it is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : D
Ed Baron: time?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is “night” for you, Ed? : )
Ed Baron: im on east coast soo….
Ed Baron: 7pm event is best
Kendra Bancroft: I also think we should have a tree decorating part
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Kendra!
Kendra Bancroft: actually a Platz decorating party
Kendra Bancroft: I’ve started –but it shouldn’t be just MY vision
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Ed ? saturday, 7 pm, “best German skating outfit”
Ed Baron: sounds great!
Ed Baron: ill be here by 6pm to set up and what not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we *do* need to write these to send to all our “promotion channels” hehe
Satchmo Prototype doesn’t look good in skating outfits
Satchmo Prototype pouts
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Satchmo!!
Sudane Erato: hehe Satch
Kendra Bancroft: and I do like the idea of ending the Winter celebration with a New Year’s at the Schwansinger Kabaret
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, decorating the Platz, Kendra…. how should we go about it?
Kendra Bancroft: since it’s right within the sound of the clock tower
Seldon Metropolitan: speaking of promotion channels, Id like aminute when things wrap up here if at all possible
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “running event”, ie. not fixed? Just with a “start” event to gather people, give out the rules…
Kendra Bancroft: How about like last year? We have a decoration contest?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and eventually a “end” event with some (more) awards?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Sudane Erato: any other events?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We haven’t set up the dates for the “decoration contest”
Keltrien Baker: I have a suggestion
Kendra Bancroft: well n–would anyone like to serve on a Pelznickle commitee with me?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, starting on the 15th, ending on the 22nd
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, two events announced.
Kendra Bancroft: I want to leave some sort of gift wrapped present on everyone’s doorstep
Keltrien Baker: I am funding the startup of an actors group, they might just be able to put together a short play
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh ho!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The last time we did that ? was a BIG success!
Sudane Erato: great Kelt!
Ed Baron: o soudns fun
Kendra Bancroft: Nisse Nilsson has agreed to play Santa
Seldon Metropolitan: hehe the last play : D
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh WOW
Keltrien Baker: II will check with them about putting together a short Christmas play
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you have time to prepare it, Kelt?
Keltrien Baker: I don’t know, but I will check
Keltrien Baker: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: space we have… : )
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll also be converting the blacksmith’s into Pelznickle’s workshop –so if anyone has any Xmas items they’d like to sell –see me
Keltrien Baker: I would also like to host some kind of event at my house
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might do something on Tuesday (the 21st if I’m not mistaken) on the Biergarten.
Sudane Erato: wed the 21st
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : D
Seldon Metropolitan: since my djing opportunities in-world are on hold for some polittical reasons, Id love to do a dance at some point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need an in-world calendar, hehe
Kendra Bancroft: I was thinking of holding an event there with Pelznickle (nisse) having children visit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooooh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds interesting : )
Kendra Bancroft: Shall I get Nisse in here?
Ed Baron: we should have a someone dress up as santa
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “there” would be the Biergarten, right?
Ed Baron: let ppl sit on there lap
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sure!
Satchmo Prototype: HTML on a prim is just around the corner, than an inworld calendar is easy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and give away gifts, hehe
Ed Baron: yeah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, Satchmo ? around 2039 or so ; )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Satchmo Prototype: no your thinking of Havok 😛
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: oooh… lost kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok… so we haven’t set a date for the theatre…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: because I was going to ask when she wanted to do the Santa thingy.
Ed Baron: anyone think having a santa is a good idea?
Ed Baron: o LOL
Sudane Erato: sure!
Keltrien Baker: Everyone loves Santa!
Aliasi Stonebender: why wouldn’t a Santa be a good idea?
Ed Baron: im not sure
Ed Baron: why i asked
Satchmo Prototype: cause he’s fat, hairy and scares little children
Aliasi Stonebender: heh.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ed Baron: and has a drinking promlem
Seldon Metropolitan: I thought that was me?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we’re safe then ; )
Ed Baron: *problem
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Satchmo Prototype: no, only santa at the mall has a drinking problem
Sudane Erato: sounds perfect for NBurg : )
Ed Baron: LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, a drunk santa!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: maybe Keltrien can make up a master list of events?
Keltrien Baker: For sure. I’ll put together a list of everything that has been discussed here so far
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The point of typing dates, places, people is just to make that work easier : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hello Nisse!!!
Nisse Nilsson: Hullo, Volk
Keltrien Baker: Hi Nisse
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: now we lost Aliasi : (
Gwyneth Llewelyn: agh
Nisse Nilsson: So I here ya need a Pelznickel
Sudane Erato: so…. do we need a budget for the festival?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, our Treasurer speaks : )
Ed Baron: whats the prize gunna be for my event
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, for the contest prizes.
Ed Baron: L u hope
Keltrien Baker: I would like to run some ads in various SL media
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That as well.
Sudane Erato: promo is what I was most concverned about
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: yes
Nisse Nilsson: Kendra has pulled me arm enough to agree to be Santa fer ye all
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although we’ll get a “free ride” on the Lindens’ announcing their Winter Festival.
Satchmo Prototype: can you be drunk when you play Santa?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ty Nisse : )
Nisse Nilsson: it helps, There Green fella
Keltrien Baker: I’m building a databse of all the advertising and marketing channels in SL, I will put together a proposed budget for that
Satchmo Prototype: excellent… but ssshhh, we don’t use the word “There” here : )
Nisse Nilsson: I can git Kendra to whip me up a santa suit
Sudane Erato: that would be great Kelt!
Seldon Metropolitan: keltrien, we should talk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, thank you Kelt!
Seldon Metropolitan: Im doing that for a number of other projects
Keltrien Baker: Yes we should Seldon
Keltrien Baker: : )
Keltrien Baker: I’ve read about the newspaper, I love it
Sudane Erato: I feel we could now commit some moderate amount to city expenses
Sudane Erato: yes… the tie-in between the paper and the festival could be great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I certainly agree!!!
Ed Baron: back to prize money for events what the going rate on that now a days?
Nisse Nilsson: Do ye want me to put up some posters at the N’burg embassy that Kendra and I be building in Takalo?
Seldon Metropolitan: between the festival, the upcoming LL changes, the elcetions and the need for civics education, the paper is going to be hopping, if I can help it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nisse ? we’d love to : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Ed ? well, people will start to appear with L$500…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Seldon, yes : )
Ed Baron: i can give 1000 of my own money to each sex
Ed Baron: best male best female
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s hear the Treasurer on that : )
Sudane Erato: i’ve always favored that the city spend the money….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes me too : ) Citizens already pay the rent, lol
Ed Baron: ok
Ed Baron: either way
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *and* do free work hosting events.
Keltrien Baker: How about having one event where all the cities nice houses have Open House?
Sudane Erato: sure….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How would that work, Kelt?
Sudane Erato: neat!
Nisse Nilsson: That’s a splendid idea
Keltrien Baker: we set aside a two or three hour window where the owners and maybe builders of the nice houses in town are home
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a very interesting and absolutely original idea!
Keltrien Baker: we’ll have one point in town where people can get the first waypoint or listing of houses
Sudane Erato: great!
Keltrien Baker: they can then go and get a tour, meet the owner
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, excellent! I love it!
Keltrien Baker: etc…
Gwyneth Llewelyn *howls*
Seldon Metropolitan: thats excellent kel
Ed Baron: very neat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ; )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Nisse Nilsson: Kendra can make real-estate blazers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, definitely approved.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We just need a day and a time ; )
Keltrien Baker: each one should have a notecard with info on moving in NBurg
Keltrien Baker: moving into NBurg
Sudane Erato: yes!!
Nisse Nilsson: Great idea
Ed Baron: i say dec. 20th
Satchmo Prototype: nice idea
Satchmo Prototype: Keltrien for RA in ’06!
Nisse Nilsson: I’m gonna go git Kendra
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s Monday?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: its Tues
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh lol ? I can’t get my dates correctly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Tuesday it is.
Ed Baron: dido
Sudane Erato: hehe… I’m sitting next to a calendar : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re wise, Sudane : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And welcome back, Kendra!
Sudane Erato: wb : )
Kendra Bancroft: Did Nisse ever show up ? I couldn’t find him ; )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes : )
Ed Baron: just left
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Sudane Erato: elections?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, please : )
Kendra Bancroft: Kelt for RA ‘6
Sudane Erato: notecard in the penguin
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Basically, we *have* a date.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: January 15th
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this means, January 1st would be the start of the official campaigning
Kendra Bancroft: and elections for a New Gildemeister a month after
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And by that date, we should get all parties and party lists formed.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn… you have elections over 2 days…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah I suggested that, yes
Sudane Erato: weren’t they for a week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A week…
Sudane Erato: I would strongly urge that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it’s a pity Aliasi isn’t around.
Sudane Erato: it sometimes takes a lot of arm-twisting
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: to0 get everyone to vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s fine by me… *but* this means postponing the elections
Sudane Erato: why?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Starting them on the 15th, and going until the 22nd?
Sudane Erato: start of the 125th
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes ? that means postponing them, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean the results.
Sudane Erato: oh! i see
Sudane Erato: yes….
Sudane Erato: both elections so far
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest of the election calendar can remain, though.
Sudane Erato: have been done that way
Ed Baron: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: and I’m quite thankful
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we vote on that? ; )
Sudane Erato: Satch?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m afraid he’s away 😛
Satchmo Prototype: sorry
Satchmo Prototype: what are we boting on?
Sudane Erato: well… i vote for it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah the Orc lives!
Satchmo Prototype: I think elections should be a week
Ed Baron: bacl
Sudane Erato: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good boy, Satchmo : )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do vote on that as well ? one week elections, from the 15th to the 22nd.
Satchmo Prototype: and the new term starts when?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the 23rd : )
Sudane Erato: the 22nd
Sudane Erato: oh… ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, lol
Satchmo Prototype: okie dokie
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that depends a bit!
Satchmo Prototype: yea, what if we have IP scandals?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, I *suggested* “closing booths” at 6 PM
Sudane Erato: tsk!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would give Ulrika some time
Sudane Erato: none of that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Satchmo : )
Seldon Metropolitan starts taking notesd
Seldon Metropolitan: ip scandals you say?
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Satchmo Prototype: read the forums from the last electoin
Sudane Erato: hehe
Seldon Metropolitan: : D
Seldon Metropolitan: I have
Ed Baron: ppl with multiple alters?
Satchmo Prototype: me and digi share a broadband router
Satchmo Prototype: we looked like an alt
Satchmo Prototype: the neualtenburg sky was falling for a few hours
Seldon Metropolitan: lol
Ed Baron: LOL
Sudane Erato: *sigh*
Sudane Erato: yes
Seldon Metropolitan: its SL, isnt it always falling?
Satchmo Prototype: only on the forums : )
Sudane Erato: worse than normal
Kendra Bancroft: Only if your name is Coconut
Ed Baron: too true
Satchmo Prototype: and when you cross borders in a vehicle
Sudane Erato: hehe
Seldon Metropolitan: true story, coco ran me over with a car my second day in-world
Ed Baron: ouch
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Kendra Bancroft: Ulrika made me build a city by flattery
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you mean Cocoanut Koala? ; )
Seldon Metropolitan: yup
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and rofl Kendra!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Seldon ? ok
Seldon Metropolitan: sorry, lack of sleep making free associating easy : D
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ; )
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, Aliasi isn’t here at the moment…
Kendra Bancroft: Oh, Sudane –The ground floor of the Neu Rathaus will have the deed office in it –can I rely on you to stock the deeds on the shelves in there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but also to prevent the am ount of confusion of last time…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re doing some Civic Classes
Sudane Erato: sure… : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aliasi started the first one yesterday.
Kendra Bancroft: TY
Sudane Erato: Kebndra… great!
Kendra Bancroft: and someone will need to put the penguin and the recorder in
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *need* people also to join to form parties if they wish ; )
Sudane Erato: well… the penguin and recorder usually come in each weekk.
Kendra Bancroft: ahhhhhh
Sudane Erato: we’ll talk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although we found out that at least the MPP and SDF have enough members to run for the next elections… it would be nice to get more : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm what else should we do?
Sudane Erato: or… more members for those 2 groups
Kendra Bancroft: I’m thinking of forming a Labor Party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: prepare an email with “Election in neualtenburg 101”? : )
Seldon Metropolitan: I plan on staying away from party affiliation
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra!!
Seldon Metropolitan: for journalistic purposes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You traitor, you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Keltrien Baker: Seldon, we’ll start the party not affiliated with any other party
Sudane Erato: probably a good idea Seldon…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Kelt : )
Kendra Bancroft: The SDF has become to rightwing for me
Seldon Metropolitan: the party party?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww lol
Sudane Erato: but you can’t vote for any individuals that way
Satchmo Prototype: lets announce the party stuff on teh forums like last election
Satchmo Prototype: see if we can’t drum up new parties
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that we have to do.
Keltrien Baker: yes, the Party Partywe just party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And if Kendra’s splitting, hmm
Satchmo Prototype: yea I was thinking of the Birthday Party
Sudane Erato: : )
Kendra Bancroft: Last I spoke to Pendari –she was thinking of forming a new party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That means we’ll only have one party right now 😛
Satchmo Prototype: we have no opinions on any issues
Ed Baron: christmas party?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
Ed Baron: nah that’ll turn out bad
Ed Baron: ill photocopy my ass and get fired
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *had* a Costume Party ; )
Seldon Metropolitan: lol
Sudane Erato: remember… 5 members : )
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes : )
Kendra Bancroft: Oh –then I’ll stick with the SDF
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft Kendra…. : )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ed Baron: SELL OUT SELL OUT
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Turncoat ; )
Kendra Bancroft: I’m gonna throw open new elections for the Gildemeister –but since I’m the only one eligible to vote it seems silly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … I think it’s time for the Monarchist party, anyway ; )
Satchmo Prototype: any insight on who your gonna vote for?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You are the only one, kendra??
Kendra Bancroft: You, Satch
Seldon Metropolitan: constitutional anarchists party?
Satchmo Prototype: NOOOOOOOOOOO
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Sudane Erato: hehe
Keltrien Baker: Sorry folks, I have to run. I’ll be in touch with everyone that I should be
Keltrien Baker: : )
Ed Baron: vote ed or go to bed
Seldon Metropolitan: keltrein
Kendra Bancroft: I need to promote some Journeymen to Meister Class
Seldon Metropolitan: IM me
Sudane Erato: great kelt! thanks!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes ? I think we have covered everything…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So thanks for your help, Kelt!
Kendra Bancroft: Or I am the only one in Meister class eligible
Seldon Metropolitan: Ill be around all day tomorrow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah right, Kendra. Hmm
Kendra Bancroft: unless some of you guys lose your seats ; )
Satchmo Prototype: heh
Satchmo Prototype: I’ll be losing my seat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rightm hmm
Satchmo Prototype: and hopefully contributing more to the guild in 06
Kendra Bancroft: oh! Then you’ll be able to vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You are, Satchmo? Why?
Satchmo Prototype: but I’ve been promising that for a few terms now 😛
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, you mean ? you don’t wish to remain on the list for the RA?
Satchmo Prototype: RA needs fresh blood, we have lots of new residents
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well I agree!
Kendra Bancroft: Ulrika would have also been able to vote –but I heard she’s staying on SC
Satchmo Prototype: yea, I’m not running
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have to volunteer them by force : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: Kelt Kelt Kelt
Satchmo Prototype: and i’d rather focus my Nuealt time on helping the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kelt sounds a good alternative : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *like
Satchmo Prototype: aww… I’m being pushed out for Kelt… I see how it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
Seldon Metropolitan: speaking of which, I would be interested in a guild membership if it pleases the assembled
Kendra Bancroft: I for one would like to see what a new Gildemeister could do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: dirty politics, that’s all you get, Satchmo : )
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, Seldon!
Kendra Bancroft: I’m still toying with stepping down and running for RA
Seldon Metropolitan: Im going to need it when I ge to the stage of selling advertising
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gentlemen of the press are always welcome at die Gilde, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Kendra
Seldon Metropolitan: which should be in motion this week
Kendra Bancroft: Sudane? Wanna switch seats?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that’s something we can figure out
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol
Sudane Erato: hmmmm
Seldon Metropolitan: can I take just a minute to talk about the paper?
Sudane Erato: might be a good idea : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fine, Seldon ? go ahead : )
Kendra Bancroft: As treasurer you already fill many Gildemeister duties
Sudane Erato: saure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we still get that on record, Seldon?
Kendra Bancroft: If you ran or Gildemeister –I’d vote for ya
Seldon Metropolitan: either way
Sudane Erato: we’ll talk : )
Seldon Metropolitan: Im still not sure of protocol here : D
Kendra Bancroft: we must
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Seldon.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If it’s just “discussing”, well, this is an open forum for discussion : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If it’s a proposal you need a vote on…
Seldon Metropolitan: it is just discussing at this point : D
Sudane Erato: great!
Seldon Metropolitan: I dont think I require anything that needs a vote
Kendra Bancroft: I thot we were just being chatty Cathys
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That should probably go towards the meeting next week ? but discussing is ok!
Satchmo Prototype: no, this is what a meeting is like without Pendari
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s the newest version, Seldon?
Seldon Metropolitan: this is resized
Kendra Bancroft: TY, SEldon
Seldon Metropolitan: should be better for hud
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh wow
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Works GREAT as HUD!!!
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
Kendra Bancroft: Seldon –I’d like to ask if you need a political cartoonist
Seldon Metropolitan: yea, just wear
Seldon Metropolitan: kendra
Satchmo Prototype: awww I don’t read latin
Seldon Metropolitan: I would love a political cartoonist
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Kendra Bancroft: Then I’m your lady
Seldon Metropolitan: but I really also need a graphic artist
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Kendra Bancroft: on both –I’m a GD in RL
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Seldon Metropolitan: cause my artistic skills are very lacking
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Seldon Metropolitan: layout and editing I can handle
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm I see a problem when both pages are opened…
NBURG TEST PAPER: First page.
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Seldon Metropolitan: problem?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the two pages get “squeezed”
Kendra Bancroft: I’d love to be considered as a resource for ya, Seldon
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Front page and last are fine.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
Satchmo Prototype: do you think French Fries, a Latte and some Tofu is a strange dinner?
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
NBURG TEST PAPER: First page.
Satchmo Prototype: this is the kinds of things I eat when Digi leaves me for the weekend
Kendra Bancroft: yes, Satch —I do
Satchmo Prototype: but it sounds good to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve seen much stranger things, Satchmo : )
Seldon Metropolitan: well I can play with the stretching
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Kendra Bancroft: Do you think beefaroni on a roll is strange?
Seldon Metropolitan: some basics as far as the paper goes
Seldon Metropolitan: heres what Im shooting for
Satchmo Prototype: yea
Sudane Erato: ok
Satchmo Prototype: plus I”m a vegeterian, heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … it’s too Whispery, lol
Kendra Bancroft: It’s all my jaw can handle tonight
Seldon Metropolitan: well that I can play with
Satchmo Prototype: been working out the jaw this weekend?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Replace the llWhispers with llOwnerSay
Kendra Bancroft: I still think we should have called the paper Die Huhnhut
Seldon Metropolitan: weekly publishing, on tuesday, with friday being the cut-off day
Seldon Metropolitan: for non-breaking info
Seldon Metropolitan: shooting for 12 pages
Satchmo Prototype: 12 pages an issue?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 12??
Sudane Erato: wonderful!!
Satchmo Prototype: who’s writing?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow!
Kendra Bancroft: is it a monthly?
Seldon Metropolitan: probably about 4 of those are gonna be ads
Sudane Erato: yes!
Satchmo Prototype: and is all about just neualt?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: have you got so much material?
Seldon Metropolitan: we’re shooting for weekly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re…. bold : )
Sudane Erato: that is great!
Seldon Metropolitan: neualy and SL
Kendra Bancroft: That’s a lot
Seldon Metropolitan: think of it as a city paper that covers world events
Satchmo Prototype: yea, I barely get one SLOG entry a month in
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Sudane Erato: yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It is, for a starting weekly paper…
Sudane Erato: the best news of SL…
Seldon Metropolitan: I know its bold, but Ive been playing with content
Sudane Erato: comes from NBurg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Seldon Metropolitan: for one thing, to make it viewable
Kendra Bancroft: I’d say open it up to ad space as well
Sudane Erato: its quite appropriate
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : Published by Seldon Metropolitan.
NBURG TEST PAPER: READY : 2 pages.
Seldon Metropolitan: I said, probably 4/12 pages will be ads
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll run a full page spread for Modehaus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we sell the paper on the infohubs? ; )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … I was being mean.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ; )
Seldon Metropolitan: lol
Kendra Bancroft: I have a question
Seldon Metropolitan: shoot
NBURG TEST PAPER: Last page.
Kendra Bancroft: What would you all like to see in an Embassy –Nisse and I are building one in Takalo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah yes.
Satchmo Prototype: scary guards
Satchmo Prototype: that stare you down when you get close
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and we need to know where they wish to put theirs in N’burg as well)
Sudane Erato: concrete barriers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh pfft
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
Kendra Bancroft: Yes –Isenland requests an embassy here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should have that on a vote as well…
Satchmo Prototype: let the next RA argue about that one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How big?
Seldon Metropolitan: oh, one thing
Kendra Bancroft: and they wish to sell their flying Vikingship as an import
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re terrible, Satchmo : )
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Satchmo Prototype: I saw we tax imports!
Seldon Metropolitan: Im planning on converting my house here to a semi-permanent news office
Sudane Erato: thats great
Seldon Metropolitan: and I could use some help with sinage
Satchmo Prototype: I say we tax the news!
Seldon Metropolitan: sineage
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wonderful!
Seldon Metropolitan: wow
Seldon Metropolitan: cant type
Ed Baron: YES TAX NEWS!
Seldon Metropolitan: signage
Kendra Bancroft: Just give me a list of what you need, Seldon
Satchmo Prototype: lets Tax Typos!
Satchmo Prototype: I’d be broke then
Seldon Metropolitan: typo tax would be rough today : D
Gwyneth Llewelyn considers fining Satchmo for being out of order ; )
Kendra Bancroft: tax beehive hairdos –no wait
Seldon Metropolitan: oh
Satchmo Prototype: is this still official?
Satchmo Prototype: doh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha yes!!
Seldon Metropolitan: one thing I would like the RA to think about
Sudane Erato: hehe… yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’ll all be on the transcript later : )
Sudane Erato: Seldon, yes?
Seldon Metropolitan: is possible guidlines for equal media time for election ads
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
Satchmo Prototype: would be nice
Sudane Erato: ahhh good!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be great!
Seldon Metropolitan: and whether thats something we want to regulate
Satchmo Prototype: all I ever see around here is SDF signs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No one can stop Eugene : )
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ed Baron: yeah SDF seems like the only party
Seldon Metropolitan: “paid for by friends of eugene pomeray”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since there haven’t been *formal* complains…
Kendra Bancroft: wait till ya start seeing us all wear our Party uniforms
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although, hmm
Sudane Erato: hehe
Kendra Bancroft: Oh –does everyone know about the new Volkspolizei?
Seldon Metropolitan: oh! I almost forgot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve been briefly discussing with Aliasi some more ideas on the N’burg information system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s an old idea
Seldon Metropolitan: Im shooting for a week from tuesday as the first issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Surfaces up every moht or so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A week from Tuesday
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sooo
Sudane Erato: great Seldon!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That means, we’ll have an official launch event!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: During the Winter Festival!
Sudane Erato: the 20th
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wow
Seldon Metropolitan: cause I dont think I can get it ready soner, and I need to get it out before winterfestival is over and the elections are in full gear
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thank you Seldon!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should get that event on the list as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a major one. We should invite the SL press
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hamlet Linden
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the metaverse guys
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Squagmire
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and of course the Herald : )
Ed Baron: YES!
Sudane Erato: oh my!!!
Kendra Bancroft: and Prokofy of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, they’ll come!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol kendra!!!
Seldon Metropolitan: technically I still work for the herald
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that a problem??
Sudane Erato: guess you better quit : )
Seldon Metropolitan: but I have been finding it difficult lately to write in their style
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: since you’re startimng competition
Ed Baron: whatever happened to SL the magazine?
Seldon Metropolitan: I should probably send walker a courtesy IM
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *love* their style, actually, but I also think that there is time we get some more “serious” press
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sl magazine?
Ed Baron: yeah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I haven’t seen *that* around
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : (
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is that?
Ed Baron: i used to write for them
Kendra Bancroft: How about BoingBoing?
Seldon Metropolitan: my wife used to do advertising for them back in the day?
Ed Baron: gamespot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra ? excellent idea…
Seldon Metropolitan: umm
Seldon Metropolitan: cory doctorow might still hate me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh?!?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of your herald article on him??
Seldon Metropolitan: I interviewed him for the herald
Seldon Metropolitan: and when I actually did the interview
Seldon Metropolitan: I was late because of problems calling overseas
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh
Seldon Metropolitan: and was super flustered and unprofessional because of it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : (
Seldon Metropolitan: he was nice and all
Ed Baron: i dont think he *hates* you
Seldon Metropolitan: : D
Seldon Metropolitan: I hope not
Satchmo Prototype: lol
Seldon Metropolitan: cause Im like a super fanboy of his
Satchmo Prototype: heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Ed Baron: that would be ver unprofessional on his part
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Satchmo Prototype: hey guys I gotta split
Kendra Bancroft: Question.
Seldon Metropolitan: anyways
Ed Baron: by satch
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Still, if I understand correctly… there are ways to place articles at BoingBoing? and elsewhere…
Ed Baron: *bye
Satchmo Prototype: I’ll be back in 20 mins if anyhting important comes up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you Satchmo!
Satchmo Prototype: later all
Sudane Erato: bye Satch!
Satchmo Prototype: sorry for being out of order…. most of the meeting 😛
Kendra Bancroft: Once the Neu Rathaus is done , I was thinking of tearing down these structures and putting up commercial storefront builds along Talenstrasse
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Easily forgiven, Satch : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Sudane Erato: kendra… I totally agree with that
Satchmo Prototype: hehe, forgive me I’m sick and miserable this weekend
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too
Sudane Erato: hehe… always have
Satchmo Prototype sniffles
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh Satchmo ? I’m sorry to hear that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm kendra ? what we can suggest
Satchmo Prototype: no worries, catch you all later
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that you get a new plan of N’burg
Kendra Bancroft: Good –I figure since it doesn’t effect the layout and opens us up for more commerce and rent –it would be an easy one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: with the “commercial zones” in it
Sudane Erato: the more commercial space on the Platz… the better
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I fully agree.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and well ? as soon as we get to see the “new plan”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can officially vote on it as well
Kendra Bancroft: I have a basic 7 prim storefront that can be modified by the owner –and has space foe a store downstairs and an apartment upstairs
Sudane Erato: sure!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then it’s up to the Guild :9
Sudane Erato: Kendra… thats perfect
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sounds very good, Kendra.
Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees, it’s perfect.
Sudane Erato: shall we adjourn this meeting?
Kendra Bancroft: good –then I’ll do that once the new rathaus is finished
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Would you be able to do a formal proposal for the next meeting?
Kendra Bancroft: I don’t think it needs a proposal
Seldon Metropolitan: any news stories ideas let me know,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning ? a notecard, perhaps with the N’burg map inside, with the new commercial zones inside?
Kendra Bancroft: It’s a matter of Sudane rezoning this as sales lots on the platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *drawn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seldon ? sure :9
Sudane Erato: well… thas easy to do
Seldon Metropolitan: first issue Im looking mostly at the telehub changeover, a civics primer, wenterfest and xmas, and laying ground for a lot of other sections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
Kendra Bancroft: That would be four newlots for sale then –and would look more urban along the platz
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Kendra
Sudane Erato: Kendra… I’m in favor… but I agree with Gwyn…
Sudane Erato: there should be *some* approval…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I definitely agree in advance, lol
Ed Baron: qwll i agree
Kendra Bancroft: and since the prim count is low –it leaves 33 prims for the resident to play with
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’d also like to have the proposal *first*
Sudane Erato: yes
Kendra Bancroft: I’ll write it up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … before we start demolishing half of the city, LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Kendra : )
Sudane Erato: hehe… can we adjourn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One point for the next agenda will be the Bond system, I guess…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *need* that operational…
Kendra Bancroft: But The Guild will do it gratis in consideration of the city –and since I built the structures months ago
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: gratis sounds great ; )
Sudane Erato: well… we alsio need a budge for 2006
Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, Kendra ? how much does the City owe the Guild??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Kendra Bancroft: heh –it’s selfish –I put a texture store in Altenburg ; )
Sudane Erato: which should include funds for buildings
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I think that we should do the budget *after* elections
Kendra Bancroft: Once the RATHAUS IS DONE? 25K
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Sudane Erato: ok
Kendra Bancroft: HALF ON COMPLETION –THE REST MONTHLY TILL PAID OFF
Kendra Bancroft: soerryy caps lock
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Sudane Erato: sounds great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane ? the point being, it’s always tough to get the new elected RA working on top of a budget already approved before their term 😛
Sudane Erato: yes… you’re right
Sudane Erato: makes sense
Sudane Erato: hehe… not that we’ve had a lot of budgets : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, iRL, in Portugal, this is standard practice, hehe ? just to piss off the next guys : )
Kendra Bancroft: fortunatley –the Rathaus fee has already been decided –and I’ve been working on the Biergarten as a hobby
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no, lol, you’re right on that, Sudane.
Sudane Erato: yes. Kendra
Sudane Erato: thats been decided
Sudane Erato: and actually
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, the Biergarten is now *usable* : ) So I guess you’ll lose some traffic in Altenburg soon, Kendra ; ) hehe
Sudane Erato: Bonds have been approved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Kendra Bancroft: The Eisbahn will stay until March
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true, Sudane
Sudane Erato: we just need a tool to administer them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes : D
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excel? : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe…
Sudane Erato: no *sigh*
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Sudane Erato: anyway… Adjourned !
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ginko? ; )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl yes ? adjourned, once and for all!
The meeting closed at 14:55 Linden time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello Roberta Always punctual! Sudane Erato: unless we hear otherwise, same time next week? Lance LeFay: Maybe we should get started without the rest..? Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops Sudane Erato: yes, your cc proposal makes it much more feasible Sudane Erato: well, about land…. Gwyneth Llewelyn: But “parcels” is something available since 1.6 or so Ryker Tonic: we might need more seats Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s the biggest problem 🙁2nd Representative Assembly
RA Meeting: January 30, 2005
Ulrika Zugzwang: Gwyn should be right here.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hello!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hello all!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Howdee!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello ‘all’ being Sudane, I see… lol
Sudane Erato: hi!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm why a penguin?
Sudane Erato: penguin has some notecards
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Sudane Erato: 9
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It should have been a chicken, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. That’s a good way to give out cards.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Sudane Erato: what is it about here!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Sudane Erato: RTD and FPS are fine!
Sudane Erato: but I die!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, I have found a nifty trick…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: under Preferences | Options…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Reduce the drawing distance to just 64 m
Sudane Erato: yeah?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This means, 8 times less objects and textures to render.
Sudane Erato: oh. i’ll try it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It also means that you’ll get a very foggy environment on open spaces
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But since then, I’m able to get an average of 10 fps on busy sims…. hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also have the Drop draw distance if FPS < 2
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, hello there Psau
Psau Mfume: hello =)
Sudane Erato: hi!
Psau Mfume: hihi =)
Sudane Erato: gwyn, i think that is much better!
Sudane Erato: thanks!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it does wonders for my slow Mac…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can’t possible imagine how I managed to survive the past year without that, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m not supposed to be here, cause I’m not in the RA but I thought I’d drop in if you have questions about my bills.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Ulrika…
Sudane Erato: LOL! lots!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I re-read the constitution…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I think that the RA meetings are supposed to be ‘public’… right?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes!
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s true.
Sudane Erato: I think that only makes sense!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So you’re more than welcome to stay.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And anyway… IF we agree upon anything…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it means that the SC could already veto us, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Sudane Erato: LOL!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: do we have a minimum quorum on the RA?
Sudane Erato: not yet i think?
Sudane Erato: wouldn’t that be part of the rules?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, probably.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing on the Constitution…
Sudane Erato: Sure! although I probably have everything
Sudane Erato: you must know exactly what you’re going to do!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don’t think we have a minimum.
Sudane Erato: I’ll be really interested to see
Ulrika Zugzwang: How should we handle it when only a fraction shows up?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should be reading the notecards…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Well, majority rules…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Shall we just reduce the vote to whomever is present?
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sounds good to me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we have just 2 people here, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well the penguin make three.
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Sudane Erato: question? how do you turn off the fog?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I remember there is an option for that….
Ulrika Zugzwang: SHIFT-ALT-Minus
Sudane Erato: yeah, but i can’t find it in Debug
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Sudane… I can’t get the notecards from inside the penguin
Ulrika Zugzwang: But you have to have the debug menu on.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s CTRL-ALT-D
Ulrika Zugzwang: So first CTRL-ALT-D to enable the debug menu, then ALT-SHIFT-Minus
Sudane Erato: thanks. worked
Sudane Erato: now, for the penguin?
Sudane Erato: he’s got every conceivable permission enabled! Stephen Grayson is offline
Sudane Erato: I can hand them out, of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wait wait
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I have that magic notecard dispenser script with me…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just one second
Sudane Erato: but with that, you have to name the card, i think?
Sudane Erato: and it only gives out one Sudane Erato accepted your inventory offer.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I’m not mistaken, Sudane, that gives out ALL notecards inside.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon Adamant uses that very same script for her poetry events, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL on the penguin name
Psau Mfume: free house! Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. It worked for me. A click gave me the cards.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow, that script is OLD, still has a silly hover text
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can’t touch the penguin myself, hmm
Sudane Erato: there, that’s better
Sudane Erato: wonder why?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed
Sudane Erato: I left the “!”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I know, I’m probably touching it from the wrong side or something…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it work now
Sudane Erato: Ulrika and Psau, you may want to check out the cards
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to read those…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ve got ’em Sudane.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one of the notecards is basically your own suggestions, Sudane… right?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m reading over the prices right now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other is the tracking of auctions
Sudane Erato: yeah, it’s exactly what I posted yesterday
Sudane Erato: and yes, i updated them today
Sudane Erato: the prices have gotten a bit less over-heated
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all those are US$?
Sudane Erato: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: Great.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Sudane Erato: the real discussion topic is:…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just one more question…
Sudane Erato: what might be the relation between them and an Anzere price?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So. Walleye actually had 5 auctions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For 2/3 of the whole land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and all in USD??
Sudane Erato: those are just the larger ones, in US$
Sudane Erato: there were many smaller ones
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I mean is, this shows that LL is auctioning for US$ things like 2/3 of the sims?
Ulrika Zugzwang: The prices aren’t as bad as I thought they would be.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, even whole sims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re not really wonderful…
Sudane Erato: Ulrika, as I said, they’re a bit down…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see Walleye for, uh, 7000 US$ or so
Sudane Erato: I’m sorry I didn’t start this 2 weeks ago
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that’s ‘only’ 40000 sq m or so
Sudane Erato: they were selling 1/4’s for $400+
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait, now I’m confused
Ulrika Zugzwang: brb. Keep going. I’ll catch up.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok… see you ulrika!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: When you have 5 times Walleye listed…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that 5 different plots?
Sudane Erato: well, the bottom line is the price/per,
Sudane Erato: yes 5 different
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the total price for Walleye…. or rather, for 40,000 sq. m
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is around 7 or 8 K US$
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which is really a lot!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Half of Shiner… that’s 5000 US$
Sudane Erato: ooh, hold on while I pull out the note.. i’m doing this from mem
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thanks Charlotte Gillespie is offline
Sudane Erato: no, the idea on the chart is to use each sale to get a price per m2…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH
Sudane Erato: then multiply that price/per times 64000, the size of the whole sim
Sudane Erato: that’s the column “If Whole Sim”
Sudane Erato: Sorry, the columns are wobbly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, you can’t get proper alignment on the notecards
Sudane Erato: text files are a pain to make columns
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Sudane Erato: so, none of the sales indicate a whole-sim-price over $1600
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m really silly, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn’t read the top line properly, right right
Sudane Erato: which is lower than its been
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So *that* makes sense to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know why?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because originally that was how LL thought how much they should charge for private sims
Sudane Erato: when I posted in the forum first, the price was over 3000
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
Sudane Erato: i think there was an overheated atmosphere 2 weeks ago
Sudane Erato: possibly caused by a certain land deal of “Yours Truly”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: I’m just joking
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you mean the small plot you bought for 150 US$?
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sudane Erato: yep
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
Sudane Erato: Prokofy told me the next day, he had done the same thing again…
Sudane Erato: what a dimwit!
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: i then saw other very high priced samll lots
Sudane Erato: one 2000 right near the th in Warwick (?) for 150-200
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Well it seems like we might be able to afford at least part of a sim if we can start saving now.
Sudane Erato: i think we said, and its probably important to stick with it, that we need the whole
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. That’s a lot of bread.
Ulrika Zugzwang: $$
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And not just half of it like I proposed last week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmhmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’ll aim high.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I wanted to mention one other thing to you all.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll post it in the forums too.
Sudane Erato: maybe we should set up a contribution list
Ulrika Zugzwang: There might be a chance that we can create something even bigger than what we have now.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was going to suggest pitching to the Lindens, the creation of an official “government” sim.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: It would not be M or PG — that would be decided by those in the sim or sims.
Sudane Erato: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How do you mean?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. A different zoning scheme?
Sudane Erato: but why government?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. FlipperPA Peregrine is offline
Ulrika Zugzwang: Self rule. We’d handle everything in 1 or 2 (or more) adjacent sims, they let us keep this piece of land.
Sudane Erato: maybe i should ask, which government?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Make it a long-term trial.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’d go with the one we have now.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Part of the pitch would be that we have the existing infrastructure: voting tools, constitution, etc.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just thought I’d throw that out there.
Sudane Erato: and why would the Lindens go along? after recent communications?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think they want to experiment with self rule but are turned off by a small group of vocal individuals.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think if we made them a good offer, perhaps they’d go for it.
Sudane Erato: you really think they’re interested in the self-rule idea?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Something to think about. I give it a 1:10.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I do think they are.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, Sudane, they really are.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Didn’t they recently hire a government liason?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The question is…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Is it Chris Linden?
Sudane Erato: and the obstacle to them is the “bad press”?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What? Really?!?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I believe so. I’ve contacted Haney for more information.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The trouble is, Haney said they weren’t into ‘funding’ new projects…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll let you know if he replies.
Ulrika Zugzwang: They wouldn’t need to.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We would pay, but keep this land.
Ulrika Zugzwang: With the agreement that we’d administer all the other land for them.
Sudane Erato: and what is implied in “administer”
Ulrika Zugzwang: Other pepole would buy that land but be under our jurisdiction.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well. We’d do what we’re doing now.
Sudane Erato: collect tier?
Ulrika Zugzwang: No, they’d have to do that like normal.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’d have to handle griefing, complaints, covenants., etc.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hold elections among the citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so that’s basically proposal #1 – we make them an US$ offer for the land and pay tier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And in return, they don’t auction off Anzere, but sell it directly to the group.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes, but it also includes the creation of “government sims””.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that is?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: the problem we take off their hands are complaints, griefing, etc?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika, was that already announced on the forums? hehe
Sudane Erato: is that really what they want out of self-government?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don’t know. I’ve asked Haney to send me a contact within the Lindens to discuss this with.
Ulrika Zugzwang: They key is finding someone to bounce ideas with.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’ll take a while. Haney is slooooow.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Sudane Erato: hello Unhygenix!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hello.
Unhygienix Gullwing: Hallo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Unhygienix, well met again
Unhygienix Gullwing: I am und tourist
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tourists are most welcome
Unhygienix Gullwing: Am seeking ze…… ‘ow you say?
Sudane Erato: so are we all
Unhygienix Gullwing: “Red Light District”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this is PG land, lol
Sudane Erato: wrong address
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Unhygienix
Unhygienix Gullwing: So this is Neualtenburg, huh?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Just this room.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm, it is
Unhygienix Gullwing: It’s um…..well, it’s smaller than I expected
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s just 1/2 a sim.
Unhygienix Gullwing: Will it be expanding to outside the room soon?
Psau Mfume: heh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol don’t mind Ulrika, Unhygienix… she’s teasing you, we have half of a sim, not just the room…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the other half is no-build, hehe
Unhygienix Gullwing: I know, I was teasing her right back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so I’m acting silly as usual
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well…
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Shall we go forward with the proceedings?
Unhygienix Gullwing: !
Unhygienix Gullwing: Oh, I’m sorry
Unhygienix Gullwing: I didn’t realize this was a meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: fellow RA members, I feel that we can’t really have a vote on this with just 2 members, worse than that, we just have one party represented here….
Unhygienix Gullwing: Take care
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s OK Unhygienix.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, it’s open to the public, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We haven’t still disclosed our plans to take over the world…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, I’m at a loss now…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not sure if we have enough people to do some decisions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pendari said that she would TRY to be around
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think we should.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, I’m sure we haven’t
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can wait… I have at least ‘free time’ in Sl until noon PST
Ulrika Zugzwang: If they don’t want to show, they don’t get to vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: is that an official declaration of the SC, Ulrika?
Sudane Erato: i think, unfortaunetly, that we have to have a meeting with a certain number
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes… we could propose a bill for that
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Although, we’d then need to define the minimum acceptable notice for a meeting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’d need at least 50% + 1 members present
Sudane Erato: perhaps at least one from each party…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And at least one representative of each party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: What if they never show?
Ulrika Zugzwang: They could cripple the govt.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a serious problem, Ulrika
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: that is a problem
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Sudane Erato: unless we change the form of government to a monarchy
Ulrika Zugzwang: If the Clown Party had 1 member and they never showed …
Sudane Erato: a friend of mine suggested we appoint a Kaiser
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chairwoman of the RA would expell the missing members, and ask the party to designate substitutes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane, take a look at one old post in the Neualtenburg forums, I want to create the Monarchist Cause, an association to promote hereditary monarchy in Neualtenburg, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: I see.
Sudane Erato: LOL!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nobody commented on that post, *sobs*
Sudane Erato: but Gwyn, I thought you were Gueen?
Ulrika Zugzwang: We actually had that planned Gwyn.
Sudane Erato: Queen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I didn’t expect to get elected to the RA, so I dropped the issue
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll show you something …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Sudane… Head of State and Head of Church, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pontifex maximus and dictator
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: maybe we should carry on the meetings via the forum
Sudane Erato: the SL one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Ulrika Zugzwang gave you ulrika.paint.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: can we do polls on the private forums at Sl Universe?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm rezzing in, Ulrika, but ty
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s our stab and creating a historical monarchy.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Sudane Erato: LOL Ulrika!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awwww lol that is so cool!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Ulrika Zugzwang: We were thinking that everyone who was a founding member should be immortalized.
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s Kendra’s first image.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hee hee.
Sudane Erato: commision frames, and hang them around us
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can have them here at the unfinished RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hang them on the walls or so…
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats. Ok, back to serious business for a while…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a stalemate. We have 6 or 7 bills to pass
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And just two members of the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: While I think we should have a minimum of members attending…
Sudane Erato: we do, but I for one don’t feel i understand the issues fully
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The trouble is, we may NEVER have that minimum.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Ulrika is here to explain.
Sudane Erato: thats why I suggested a written up bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go ahead and ask
Sudane Erato: well, which is Bill #1? Selador Cellardoor is online
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one sec, I’ loggin in to the forums…
Sudane Erato: We need to do this in a more orderly fashion
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: The first one is the elimination of the 10% event tax.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For events. Yes.
Sudane Erato: OK, can we have a summary (sorry) of the whole finance thing, since this tax is what makes up the city’s finances?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure.
Sudane Erato: i’m not very knowledgeable about this
Ulrika Zugzwang: Currently all money is made by taxing sales and events.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You can get the sales figures from the Ulrika’s Heim website
Ulrika Zugzwang: We have a flat 10% rate.
Sudane Erato: OK
Ulrika Zugzwang: Info is at: http://www.ulrikasheim.org/vendor
Ulrika Zugzwang: Everything is transparent.
Ulrika Zugzwang: In short, we aren’t make money.
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: do we have expenses at this time?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Nope.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just land-tier fees.
Sudane Erato: LOL
Sudane Erato: but are the land tier fees an organized expense?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Nope.
Sudane Erato: or are they just contributed by whover can?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, they are.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’d like to organize them.
Ulrika Zugzwang: But that’s after we get people living here.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Which is another bill.
Sudane Erato: Yes, I think that would be first
Ulrika Zugzwang: And months down the road.
Sudane Erato: because, you can’t go passing taxation bills without the spending plan
Ulrika Zugzwang: Our goal is to have rent and sales pay for land tier.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, currently everything done here has been for free… so we haven’t paid for anything except land tier
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: you said, there is no income now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is income
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just no profit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: http://www.ulrikasheim.org/vendor/?show=statistics
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Government has gotten L$4000
Sudane Erato: Gottcha
Gwyneth Llewelyn: in sales tax.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. $4k.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But over 4 months or so…
Ulrika Zugzwang: We can use that to buy a sandwich.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: precisely
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s 3 months.
Ulrika Zugzwang: But yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes. Sorry. 3 months
Sudane Erato: will the Lindens take L$ for tier?
Ulrika Zugzwang: No.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not worth it, we need to exchange it at the GOM
Ulrika Zugzwang: But we can sell money on the Gaming Open Market.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we need around, say L$ 30,000 per month or so
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: meaning, under the current model – only based upon sales taxes – an income on L$ 300,000 with sales.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not IMPOSSIBLE….
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s dang near impossible.
Sudane Erato: it probably is impossible in the current climate
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s why I think rentals might be a solution. They can be at 80%.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But pretty hard, when you just have 10 items for sale or so, and one accounts for about 90% of all
Sudane Erato: it seems to me that the current issue is not whether we should charge the event tax
Ulrika Zugzwang: Meaning most the revenue goes to the city.
Sudane Erato: it seems to me that the current issue is attracting income generators
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika’s bill #3 is about that…
Sudane Erato: and to do that, we have to insure the long term existence of Neualt
Sudane Erato: otherwise, who would come
Sudane Erato: the Bill relating to hosting new member events seems to me directly relevant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both are related… you need to insure the long-term existence of Neualtenburg, and create a source of income
Sudane Erato: sounds like we could easy pass the no tax events bill..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes…
Sudane Erato: because, it wounldn’t matter, one way or the other
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s Ulrika’s point.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And since contest events do not get any financial support from the Lindens, anyway…
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s too much trouble and could be a disincentive.
Sudane Erato: well, thank yo for putting up with my slow comprehension…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane
Ulrika Zugzwang: No problem.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Understanding is a good thing.
Sudane Erato: its what I need to grab onto something
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I also vote for that bill to pass.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, it’s unanimous? hehe
Sudane Erato: I too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #2…
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Election of new RA in Two Months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We discussed this earlier, that the first term of the RA should be shorter.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have to say that Talen will not support this.
Ulrika Zugzwang: He’s been against a two month term since the beginning.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Well. Talen should be here to vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you’re right.
Sudane Erato: But Talen has neither participated in a meeting…
Sudane Erato: nor posted anything since the election
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Talen was part of the provisory government and was precisely working on the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not against the 2 month term, neither in favour…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I also thought it would be a good time to set a deadline.
Sudane Erato: without this bill, what is the term length?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, I may review my opinion if people fail to meet
Ulrika Zugzwang: To get folks thinking about the impending deadline of the city lease.
Ulrika Zugzwang: There is no term limit.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We thought we’d work it out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uhm
Sudane Erato: well, the next election?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait, checking on the Constitution….
Ulrika Zugzwang: Remember, we took out the length of terms.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: Because of all the controversy surrounding them.
Ulrika Zugzwang: So this is something that should will go in the constitution.
Sudane Erato: well, we should pass some kind of length
Ulrika Zugzwang: *should
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm, not necessarily
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: the real problem is participation…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have three options…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One, pass the bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we can always change it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: two, vote to amend the Constitution
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we have the power
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Three, ignore the bill Alex Pennyfeather is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And postpone the issue to a time where we have more people here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Remember, the Constitution *says* we should meet once per week in-world at least!
Sudane Erato: we must deal; with this participation issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, as Chairwoman of the RA, I hereby declare that we should gently remind our fellow members at the RA that they’re failing on their civic duties (
Sudane Erato: agreed…
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: but we should do it in a way calculated to get everyone participating
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’ll post on that
Sudane Erato: whatever system that might require
Ulrika Zugzwang: Maybe we should create an “RA” group so you can IM among yourselves.
Sudane Erato: maybe different than originally imagined
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dragging people by their hands and feet is perhaps too much…
Ulrika Zugzwang: That way you could announce things with it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not a bad idea, Ulrika, but the problem is not having them know about the RA meetings, but actually atending.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It would also allow you to discuss things privately as a group here.
Sudane Erato: yes, an IM group would be good for communication
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok…
Sudane Erato: and security, as Chandra ahas suggested
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. The attendance could be a problem.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill # 1 A, let’s create a RA group
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m just worried that people didn’t know about it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: when they recivedan IM, they will
Gwyneth Llewelyn: perhaps I wasn’t clear enough on my emails & posts…?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Or maybe we should IM people several days in advance.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, ok. That sounds good as well
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh. You sent an email with this date and time?
Sudane Erato: yes, that too
Ulrika Zugzwang: That should be sufficient if you did.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, yes…
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s even better than a group.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well gosh. If you sent an email, I say that’s good enough.
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder now… since you’re saying that, you were on the list as well, Ulrika…
Sudane Erato: it obviously didn’t work
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So probably my email didn’t go through?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m a scatter brain. Don’t count on me.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let me check my email. ….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let me check my outbox…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just one second.
Ulrika Zugzwang: You sent one but it didn’t have the date and time in it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: can we not count on members to check the SL forum?
Sudane Erato: just members, mind you
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. I’m a forum junky so it’s hard for me to say.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think members of the RA should check the forums for sure though.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats, You’re right. My email was just to remind people to look at the SL Universe forum
Sudane Erato: but there, you said, meeting today
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *thought* I wrote the date & time on the email, but I didn’t.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I guess an email in the future with time and date would be sufficient.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So people probably got the email, thought about going on the forum, but never did see the date & time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We should also have a rule that those who don’t show don’t get a vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll do that next time…
Sudane Erato: with respose required
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. That’ll fix it up.
Sudane Erato: sorry to be authoritarian
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika, that is implicit in the Constitution… it says, simple majority
Sudane Erato: but surely there must be a quorum?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Section 6 – Legislative Process and Veto A vote in the RA is a simple majority vote of representative seats. Constitutional amendments require a 2/3 vote.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Excellent.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing is mentioned in the COnstitution.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, we also need to keep this thing running.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But yes, i also think there should be a quorum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, since we haven’t passed a bill on that yet…
Sudane Erato: Usually, a quorum definition would be a rule
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, I propose as a rule that we should have 50% + 1 members (ie. at least 4) and at least one of each party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However we’re completely out of order, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill # 2 is supposed to be about the next election day.
Sudane Erato: since we don’t even meet that rule!
Sudane Erato: may I suggest…
Sudane Erato: extraordinary times require extraordinary measures
Sudane Erato: that we appoint Ulrika and Kendra as members-at-large
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I suggest that we discuss that AFTER we vote upon the other bills
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And noooo we can’t do *that* hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. That’s a bad idea.
Sudane Erato:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s technically impossible, Sudane.
Sudane Erato: oh well, I tried
Ulrika Zugzwang: I can hear the squealing now.
Sudane Erato: we need numbers!!!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Good idea though.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both hold offices at other branches of government
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dangerous
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not good
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, let’s instead make this a meeting about the RA and put the bill off until next time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Sudane Erato: guys, this is the frontier
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m in no rush. I’ll work on the properties and buildings for now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second that. So Bill # 2 is postponed
Sudane Erato: law into our own hands
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Sudane
Sudane Erato: OK, i agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, can we move unto #3?
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: OK
Sudane Erato: dfine please
Ulrika Zugzwang: Rental units. Can we have them and what cut do land lords get?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill: Rental Unit Cost and Percentage
Ulrika Zugzwang: Also, how much should we rent them for?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And what part should be rented at all?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: this is all very complex
Ulrika Zugzwang: It is.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I rent the church? It’s my favourite building
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, seriously now…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neualtenburg has residential Viertels
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I think those are the only ones available for rental.
Ulrika Zugzwang: (The church does have it’s own set of dwellings that belong to it by the town square.)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. True, ulrika
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I still haven’t occupied a house, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: Those are yours if you want them either to rent or to live in.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw my event yesterday was an utter failure, no one appeared
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Ulrika Zugzwang: Drat.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I posted too late…
Ulrika Zugzwang: You need some pose balls.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: what was the event?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Pious ones.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm the usual stuff, but a new topic to discuss
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only person willing to attend was a very good friend of mine, but she was already tipsy and tired (it was the day of her SL collaring cerimony, which for the BSDM group is like a wedding)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, back to rental units…
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, please, let me know
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How much sq. m. do we have on the Viertels?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let me check …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Ulrika
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem will be, we cannot make a profit there…
Ulrika Zugzwang: About 1500 m2 in each give or take 200 m2.
Sudane Erato: times how many?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I remember Ulrika’s calculations, we don’t have enough sq. m. available to pay for tier using current market prices
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which would be, uh, perhaps L$ 1200/week for that
Ulrika Zugzwang: Checking …
Ulrika Zugzwang: We have about 5 of those.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so 7500 sq m?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’d like to bring them online 1 at a time.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, it makes sense.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Each structure has about 100 m2 per floor of space.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that sounds good!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me see if I can still add things up…
Sudane Erato: for a total of 1500 m2?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s 7500 sq, m
Sudane Erato: each?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5 Viertels, each 1500, so each 15 houses of 100 sq m
Sudane Erato: oh!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: total, 75 plots with 100 sq m
Sudane Erato: my head spins with this…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let’s see. We have 5 quarters at 1536, 1632, 1280, 750, and 1000 m2
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow
Sudane Erato: sorry, but i need to look on paper
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s 6350 or so
Ulrika Zugzwang: There are a total of 35 structures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 35? hm
Ulrika Zugzwang: +/- a few.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, so they’re not equal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: fine
Ulrika Zugzwang: Each structure is identical.
Sudane Erato: what are typical leases for SL?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Each viertel is different.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m not sure!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: around 100 L$/week for 120 sq m or so
Sudane Erato: so we need to check that out
Gwyneth Llewelyn: depends
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don’t know the market rate. Let me check a post I made, where I asked some folks…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I got a lot of replies! Let me read that now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, while on IM, I’ve just rented a 2048 sq. m. plot for L$500/week, but it’s a very special price, way below the current market rate!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that doesn’t count
Sudane Erato: basically, sounds like 1 L$/m2
Sudane Erato: per week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s slightly less
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ok, we can use that figure
Ulrika Zugzwang: Random Unsung (Prokofy) suggests $250 per month.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, since we’re such nice guys here, lol
Sudane Erato: OK, so 4/month
Gwyneth Llewelyn: $250 for what?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 100 sq. m?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: $4 L$/mon for each m2… times 7500 m2
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that makes sense, yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: So we should go $100 per week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Ulrika.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s a bit high but we have a special place.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That sums up rather nicely….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Around 24,000 L$ per month… almost enough to pay for tier!
Ulrika Zugzwang: so 100 * 35 = 3,500 per month!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oops.
Sudane Erato: L$ 30,000 per month by my numbers
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, more like 30,000
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since total space is 6350 sq m or so
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s L$100 * 35 houses * 4 weeks/month = 56,000?
Sudane Erato: sorry, i was using 7500
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lollllll
Ulrika Zugzwang: Crdu.
Ulrika Zugzwang: BAH!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let me do that again.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe indeed
Ulrika Zugzwang: L$100 * 35 houses * 4 wk/mo = L$14,000
Ulrika Zugzwang: There.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s good dough!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s fine, but that only accounts for 3500 sq m
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What happened to the rest of the space?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Streets and infrastructure?
Ulrika Zugzwang: In a lease, that’s L$56 in 4 months – 15 times what we usually get by tax.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll work on increasing density.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, still slightly below what we need for pay the whole tier…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, it’s pretty dense right now, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: It will require a complete rebuilding of each district one at a time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yikes
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s OK. Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll one per week or so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, if you say so…
Ulrika Zugzwang: So, what kind of cut does the land-lord get? Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a tough one
Sudane Erato: the city is the landlord, no?
Ulrika Zugzwang: The city owns the land but the land lord provides a service by maintaining the land.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, actually, members contributing tier…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. That too Gwyneth.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, my feeling is that they should get 100%
Ulrika Zugzwang: The person?
Ulrika Zugzwang: The landlord I mean?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, the group of tier-contributing members. Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Split among them according to the percentage of tier they hold.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was hoping to use this L$ as a way for us to afford our new home as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know, Ulrika
Sudane Erato: that should be temproary, until the city budget pays the tier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: It would come to about US$200.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Not too bad.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me suggest this…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless we have an alternative option, we’d like to pool ALL money into buying our sim
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Afterwards, landlords get 100% of the income generated from rents
Sudane Erato: then who pays the tier?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This means an extra effort to the group members who have payed for tier…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *paid
Sudane Erato: who pays the tier ongoing?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Sudane, you mean ‘now’ or ‘after we buy the sim’?
Sudane Erato: after
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A generous group of members right now…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And probably the same generous group afterwards, but, this time, they’ll actually get enough money to pay for their tier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that we should duplicate the available area…
Sudane Erato: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: for renting…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That will give near to L$ 30 K, or enough to pay for tier.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (of course, I’m assuming that ALL houses would be rented, lol)
Sudane Erato: Long term, it CANNOT be generous members who pay the tier..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Long term, the rentals would pay for tier.
Sudane Erato: it must be a responsibility of the government
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have to let you two know, that I have to leave in about 15 minutes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Sudane Erato: mee too
Ulrika Zugzwang: We did bring up a lot of new issues though.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane, the alternative would be… pooling all the money together… putting a L$30 K budget for the landlords… and see how we can extract L$ from people
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll try and capture a lot of them in the forums, to spread out the work.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, just 1 bill approved, 1 postponed, and 1 discussed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We had a bill # 1 A…. what was it again?
Ulrika Zugzwang: We also talked a lot about the RA as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah sure.
Ulrika Zugzwang: #1 A was the RA group.
Ulrika Zugzwang: If you two can summarize the current bill discussions, I’ll summarize from the SC standpoint the problems with attendance and what to do with voting when members are absent.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’ll be the Constitution Discussion #3.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Sudane Erato: sounds good to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, the RA group, yes
Sudane Erato: i’d like a summary, so i can understand the issues better
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane, I’ll try to get you an email on that…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Also, I wanted to say not to be too rough on those who didn’t show. They donate a lot of tier.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean on the transcript…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, ulrika
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It will be more a plea and not a grumbling
Sudane Erato: i feel we need understanding
Sudane Erato: if people are donating tier..
Sudane Erato: but not participating…
Sudane Erato: what is underlying their interest?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats. I was also hoping we could come up on a ‘citizen’s tax’ for the non/contributing members of tier
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (like myself!)
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: and me
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ah! That’s an interesting thought.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Maybe you should submit that as a bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I will.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ve been thinking of a way to remove nonproductive members.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We even had a small group of members that I didn’t know existed who jumped in just for the vote.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should have done before. However, we can always propose new bills inside the RA meetings.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Right
Ulrika Zugzwang: I think they were added by Talen at the last minute.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Ulrika!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahahaha
Ulrika Zugzwang:
Sudane Erato: /no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, that’s not so bad, really.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Naw. It didn’t affect the outcome of the election.
Sudane Erato: any way to get new members, we should
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why the ‘citizen’s tax’ is a good idea
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Maybe we could have a trial period for new members so we don’t scare them away.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, new citizens just popping up from nowhere…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They will have either to pay that tax, contribute tier… or go out of the Neualtenbrug group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just a thought.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Time for me to go
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we just say bye bye?
Sudane Erato: we have to make a “benefit” for being in Neualt!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Thanks for letting me hang out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, benefit
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Being hated by everybody in SL, etc
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s benefit enough.
Sudane Erato: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you’re welcome, ulrika & Psau, as said, these meetings are supposed to be public…
Sudane Erato: yes, thank you!
Sudane Erato: can we suggest next week, same time?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane, if you’re willing to contribute tier, this means we’ll manage the land and rent it out, keep it free from griefers, etc. and thus make your investment a piece of cake to handle
Sudane Erato:
Ulrika Zugzwang: Good idea.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Almost time for the Thinker’s meeting Gwyn.
Sudane Erato: I’m hoping to contribute tier, once I get my personal land affairs straightened out
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes. Unless someone votes against it, we’ll have the RA meetings same place, same hour
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Ulrika, good guess
Sudane Erato: good
Sudane Erato: well, my best to all!
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ciao everyone.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, cheers to all and thanks for attending, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can;t forget to take a copy *this time*
Psau Mfume: take care everyone =)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope you didn’t fall asleep, Psau, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Psau Mfume: naw, was sorting my inventory =)
Sudane Erato: lol
Psau Mfume: it’s still a mess =(RA Meeting: February 06, 2005
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello Sudane!
Sudane Erato: hi Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm it seems that we’re not many – again.
Sudane Erato: thanks for the draw distance tip!
Sudane Erato: it really works!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s right…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve been using it ever since, Sudane…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hello Roberta!
Sudane Erato: hi Roberta
Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw, do any of you have either Talen Morgan or Christiano’s calling card?
Sudane Erato: no, i don’t
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have neither… wasn’t able to IM them, just email…
Sudane Erato: don;t people check their email!?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some don’t….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL!
Sudane Erato: speak of the devil
Talen Morgan: greetings all
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen DOES read the mail, hehe
Sudane Erato: hello!
You have offered to exchange calling cards with Talen Morgan.
You have exchanged calling cards with Talen Morgan.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This time, I’ll offer to trade cards with you, Talen
Roberta Dalek: back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me add you to the ‘spam group’ hehe
Talen Morgan: not sure if Pen will be here
Sudane Erato: she still have family in?
Roberta Dalek: I have several email accounts – the best way to contact me really is by IM
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s wait a bit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… I’ll try to contact you all on IM *and* email
Talen Morgan: I’m thinking Sunday might not be the best of days to hold meetings….for many its the only family time they have
Sudane Erato: what other time would be good for all?
Talen Morgan: Thats something we’ll have to figure out if we can get everyone in one spot at the same time
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a good point.
Roberta Dalek: any day – but musn’t be too late – its 6pm now where I am
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same here, Roberta…
Sudane Erato: its 1 in NY
Sudane Erato: great time for me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… we can start by thinking what is better, workdays or weekdays?
Sudane Erato: workdays are ok if its between 3 and 6 GT
Sudane Erato: PM
Roberta Dalek: well 3 is 11pm here
Sudane Erato: otherwise it s tough for those of us who work in offices
Talen Morgan: sounds like weekends would be better due to the different countries involved
Sudane Erato: yeah, thats the trouble with world-wide scheduling
Roberta Dalek: could be fun if we ever get someone from Australia or New Zealand
Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed
Sudane Erato: oh no!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I have no problem with 3 PM PST on any workday.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Except perhaps for Friday, but even so…
Sudane Erato: yes, fri is less good
Roberta Dalek: I can’t guarantee that I’d be able to make a meeting from 11pm-1am at all times – as sometimes I fall asleep before then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
Sudane Erato: hehe, me too
Sudane Erato: lucky i’m further west!
Talen Morgan: well there are a few possibilities…as long as each party is represented then we can go back to our prospective parties and discuss the meeting and perhaps the actual voting on bills can be done via website like the election votes
Sudane Erato: yes, that had been one idea
Sudane Erato: i would support it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Roberta Dalek: but peole might not hear all the arguments
Talen Morgan: it seems like its the only way time wise that would be workable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. I’d prefer it the other way round…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Discuss IRL, vote on SL
Talen Morgan: we will keep minutes of each meeting and they can read the full discussion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… we also have the option of doing everything on the forums.
Sudane Erato: the live meetings are definitely the problem pooint
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, I really think that, in spite of all the ‘problems’ of in-world meetings, you can get faster discussions here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could have a compromise of holding every week the meeting at a different time slot…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so we would have half the people on one week, and the other half on the next week
Talen Morgan: but there is still the very good possibility that not all will show up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, i think that would make for a very difficult process
Sudane Erato: dis-jointed
Roberta Dalek: may be the answer is to find out why people didn’t attend rather than presume it is the time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Hmm
Sudane Erato: good point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I’ll think we should do that.
Talen Morgan: real life intervenes will be the answer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Keep the meetings for now at Sunday, 10 AM PST
Sudane Erato: maybe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ask people why they can’t attend…
Roberta Dalek: I say keep at the same time and ask people why they didn’t attend
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And try to fit it on a different time slot.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, roberta, lol
Roberta Dalek: I didn’t attend the last one cos I didn’t know about it, for example
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was entirely my fault, I do apologise…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a transcript… still ‘raw’
Talen Morgan: I say keep the meetings at this time slot ….we are supposed to keep minutes anyway…deliver the minutes to all members and have the actual vote on the website
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll give the notecard to both you and Talen…
Roberta Dalek: for accountability
Roberta Dalek: we need to be publically publishing minutes etc
Talen Morgan: yes
Sudane Erato: hehe that will be a long post!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Talen… the *only* reason why I don’t like that, is that it makes these meetings rather pointless… we could just discuss the issues on the forums
Roberta Dalek: no parliament meets in secret
Roberta Dalek accepted your inventory offer.
Sudane Erato: but i don’t think they should be edited
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol the problem is all the annoying ‘XXX is online’ or ‘SL Exchange delivered object YYY’
Talen Morgan: it wouldnt make these meetings pointless but the fact is I doubt there will ever be full attendance here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I duobt that as well, Talen… *sigh*
Roberta Dalek: a discussion on the forum would involve more than the senate
Sudane Erato: can’t you opt those out of chat?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wish I could.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Roberta, we have private forums for that…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or we could have.
Roberta Dalek: yes – but we still need to tell the wider community what is going on – even if it is a notecard giver or library in neuberg
Roberta Dalek: in fact I favour a library
Sudane Erato: Roberta, i think those are really good ideas
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Talen… I meant ‘pointless’ just in the way that this would be a place ‘just for talk’ but not for making decisions. So I’d say people would skip attending in-world meetings and conveniently browse the forums and do the voting there…
Talen Morgan: I thought we spoke earlier of having a notecard giver outside the meeting chamber
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I may be wrong….
Sudane Erato: a LOT of people don’t use the forums
Roberta Dalek: I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I also agree on the notecard dispenser
Roberta Dalek: A public record in world is better
Sudane Erato: and the forums are not a part of SL
Talen Morgan: I think we should use the same method for voting as we did for the election …it will be more detailed
Sudane Erato: a notecard giver is part of SL
Sudane Erato: even if people don’t use it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Talen, so a double system, where you authenticate yourself in-world but do the voting off-world?
Sudane Erato: sure would be nice if we could do it all in-world
Talen Morgan: does matter where the vote takes place as long as the voting is done
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really… just as proceedings go… I feel like there is ‘waste of time’ meeting in-world if all decisions are done off-world (by voting)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, what’s the point in meeting then? Even if we have the minutes… you could vote without ever reading them.
Talen Morgan: then set up the kiosk in world to vote and the website gives the results
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, that’s accountability! Yes, I agree with such a device.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But still the question remains… would the kiosk be here in the senate, and you would be able to vote only when we have our meetings…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or will people be able to use the kiosk even if they never attended the meetings?
Roberta Dalek: I presume the point about kiosk voting would be to enable those to vote who can’t attend the meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Roberta Dalek: so the question is should you be able to vote if you didn’t attend?
Talen Morgan: the kiosk would be here in the senate and hopefully it will be used during an alloted time frame….the meetings should be used to discuss the issues the vote is the vote no matter when it happens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I propose that we submit that as a bill and vote upon it
Talen Morgan: every member votes
Sudane Erato: it seems that the natural right of vote does not necessarily include the requirement to attend
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well indeed, Sudane.
Roberta Dalek: but irl you can only vote in parliament if you are there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s my point, and that’s why I don’t like the idea very much…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However… I think we should vote upon it, lol
Roberta Dalek: I propose that we find out why people can’t attend first
Talen Morgan: in real life parliment member have a duty and it is their job to be there….this isn’t real life and many of us have other responcibilities
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Roberta Dalek: so we have some information on which to make a decision
Talen Morgan: it doesnt matter why people cant attend …real life will prevent us all from attending at one time or another…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well… Talen, that’s relative… think of Neualtenburg as your local club, not as the Congress or Senate. Then it makes sense. You attend your club’s official meetings whenever you have time, and vote when you’re present…
Sudane Erato: in the US Senate, you don;t have to attend the debate, you just have to physicvally present to vote
Roberta Dalek: same in the uk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, most countries are like that.
Talen Morgan: you dont have to be present to vote in the senate …there are various circumstances when a senator can be absent and still vote
Talen Morgan: either way we are a very small group and every vote should count
Sudane Erato: perhaps closely defined circumstances
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, clubs, local associations, and even some small-scale assemblies, where people do not work ‘full time’, function like that… you have to attend to discuss & vote…
Sudane Erato: the kiosk could be here all week
Sudane Erato: and that would meet the “present” requirement
Talen Morgan: I agree with that
Roberta Dalek: Ok – I strongly agree that it *shouldn’t* be on any forum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But not the ‘attend’ requirement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: At least that’s unanimous, then? No voting on forums/web sites? All voting is done in-world, regardless of the possibility of tying up the kiosk with a Web page?
Talen Morgan: yes
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL, that was unanimous
Sudane Erato:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The next issue is, for how long should the kiosk be available for voting?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One week? (ie. between meetings)
Sudane Erato: sounds good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just one day or a few hours?
Talen Morgan: I also think that the kiosk should show to all the members ( somehow) who voted what as if we were voting during the meetings
Sudane Erato: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or just during the meetings?
Sudane Erato: no, all week, and i think Talen’s point is good
Talen Morgan: the kiosk should be available for voting for 5 days…the business week perhaps
Roberta Dalek: yes – voting shouldn’t be secret
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Makes sense, if the voting is never ‘secret’.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Roberta Dalek: but should close before the next meeting so that results are available
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Roberta.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, for the record, I disagree, but I’m outumbered 3:1, so that bill will pass
Roberta Dalek: the meeting should then start with the results of the voting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll have a voting machine, and it will be available the whole week for voting…
Talen Morgan: yes
Talen Morgan: old business then new business
Sudane Erato: who will make it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right! So we can close the meeting for today, since we need the kiosk for voting for the next bills, LOL
Talen Morgan: we can see if the election kiosk can be subverted for our purpose
Sudane Erato: LLOL!
Roberta Dalek: the minutes of the meeting should include who voted for what – as this will enable the electorate to decide who they wish to re-elect
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I guess that it is a possibility, Talen…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But it needs some changes…
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Roberta.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The changes are…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) No secret voting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Several votes at the same time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) Notecards with the bills, before the RA member votes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4) Transactions of the meetings.
Sudane Erato: yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, minutes of the last meeting…
Sudane Erato: notecards for the biils
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Sudane Erato: the only question i have is regarding the secret votes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes?
Talen Morgan: it should be one notecard for each bill and each bill should have a number …to keep things uniform
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed, Talen…
Sudane Erato: that was an issue discussed extensively in the forums before the first election
Roberta Dalek: yes – and the library should keep a copy of all bills
Talen Morgan: agreed
Sudane Erato: sometimes an issue might require secrecy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Roberta Dalek: can you think of an example?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a tough one, Sudane. yes. An example would be nice.
Sudane Erato: the example used by Ulrika was regarding the possible purchase of land by Neualt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One thing is a ‘secret discussion’
Sudane Erato: if it were known our intentions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re doing that right now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other thing is a ‘voting’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That should be public…
Sudane Erato: Ah, perhaps
Talen Morgan: I think that issue falls under a general category wheras it is more of a group decission not necessarily a political one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not 100% sure of that myself, lol
Roberta Dalek: agree talen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, something like that, Talen…
Talen Morgan: land is plentiful and we don’t need to be secretive about it in fear that someone will try to jack us…
Sudane Erato: it is plentiful if we plan to buy new land…
Roberta Dalek: the principle of open, transparent and accountable governence is a higher priority
Sudane Erato: but that is only one option
Roberta Dalek: the nitty gritty of buying land isn’t really just a matter for the senate
Sudane Erato: but any decision must have the support of the system
Sudane Erato: not just a few leaders
Talen Morgan: the real issue regarding land is what we are going to do….when it comes time to do whatever we decide then we just do it
Roberta Dalek: the senate can delegate the discussions for Foo Bar
Sudane Erato: that’s why perhaps it is a matter for the seante
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, but technically at least it should be our responsability to propose and vote upon a solution.
Roberta Dalek: delegate to Foo is what I meant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with delegation, of course…
Sudane Erato: what is Foo Bar?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, just delegate to ‘someone’
Talen Morgan: considering that the land involves everyone and many tiers are donated it is a community decision
Roberta Dalek: meaning a n other/j doe in this case
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, you raise a very serious point, Talen…
Sudane Erato: yes, that is the point
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any suggestions how we should handle it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is no provision in the Constitution – yet – for a referendum…
Talen Morgan: and we still need to figure out the best course of action which most likely will be buying new land as I can’t see the lindens selling us this land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we *could* discuss a few options, and suggest that the whole community votes for it.
Talen Morgan: true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Sudane Erato: a very difficult dilemma
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, yes…
Sudane Erato: bcause whatever the community decision
Sudane Erato: there will be individuals who will seek to gain
Roberta Dalek: we are still responsible for sorting it out
Sudane Erato: true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with you both…
Talen Morgan: not really….considering what we have done so far I see it as an easy thing to deal with…I’m sure we could get a sim if we wanted very easily
Roberta Dalek: if the community votes for X, which then doesn’t work we need to allow the continuation of the project
Talen Morgan: honestly it will fall to those who have donated tier ….these people will be responsible as well as other who donate in doing what is needed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yuo mean a private sim, or a mainland sim, Talen?
Talen Morgan: either
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the issue with a private sim is that there is only one owner.
Sudane Erato: in previous discussions, there has been a very great sentiment to stay here
Talen Morgan: a mainland sim would make more sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes Sudane
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, talen
Roberta Dalek: Agree a mainland sim would be better
Roberta Dalek: but staying in Anzere may not be possible
Talen Morgan: theres no reason to stay here. we can never own all the land and the Lindens won’t sell to us outright
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless, of course, the Lindens change the way the private sims work, but I guess that’s not under discussion right now…
Sudane Erato: Talen, perhaps i agree…
Talen Morgan: you can buy a private sim as a group
Sudane Erato: but there is a great deal of feeling to stay here
Roberta Dalek: the argument against moving is rebuilding, the argument against staying is that we may end up with random parcels without the room to expand
Talen Morgan: one person is still responcible for the tier though but the group can all work the land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You can, talen? But who’ll pay for it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Talen Morgan: hopefully it will pay for itself…you only need to bring in 50k lindens amonth to pay tier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Roberta, I think that trying to buy all the land here from public auctions is almost impossible, it needs too much coordination, UNLESS we could convince the Lindens NOT to parcel out the terrain.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, Ulrika pointed out that Haney told her that LL *will* parcel it out.
Roberta Dalek: I don’t think they will want to do us a special favour
Talen Morgan: the lindens wont deal direct as they will see it as not being fair
Roberta Dalek: so – if they will parcel it out then we can’t stay here
Sudane Erato: do the lindens care about “fair”?
Talen Morgan: they care about the appearance of fair
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Talen, that is the common ‘feeling’, but the truth is, we don’t have an official answer to that. Just our own ‘feelings’ based upon past dealings with the Lindens.
Talen Morgan: trust me the Lindens will do exactly what I said…..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I think so, roberta. If this gets parcelled out, there is almost no chance for us to get it back.
Roberta Dalek: we need to know 100% whether they will parcel it out – if they will (as Haney said) then we need to find another mainland siom
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, talen, I’ll give you a 90% confidence on that
Roberta Dalek: so we can rebuild
Sudane Erato: hehe
Talen Morgan: you can buy a sim and have it attached to the mainland
Sudane Erato: its still private, right?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The 10% is a chance that they react unpredictably to our arguments But it’s a very small chance.
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I like that idea.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because we can ask them to replicate the terrain here…
Sudane Erato: can an alt own a private sim?
Talen Morgan: it is just attached to the mainland
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the rebuilding would be very easy.
Talen Morgan: anyone or group can own a sim or many sims
Sudane Erato: sO uLRIKA’S BANKER ALT COULD OWN THE SIM
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Sudane Erato: sorry
Talen Morgan: we can even have seasons then as we can change the terrain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s the question.
Talen Morgan: yes
Roberta Dalek: that would be good – as we could guarantee that they wouldn’t sell it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol seasons, hehe
Sudane Erato: very nice. i would love seasons
Talen Morgan: snow all the time is dpressin
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Talen & Sudane… that sounds about the ‘best’ suggestion so far
Sudane Erato: LOL
Talen Morgan: a sim would cost 1k US up front and I think we could get that easily
Sudane Erato: yes, i think we could
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, as I said once, I can donate US$500, no problem.
Talen Morgan: basically 250k lindens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And there wouldn’t be a question of tier
Roberta Dalek: I live on disability benefit so I couldn’t donate money – only time
Talen Morgan: and ulrikas idea of a casino would definately help with tier and traffic
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, no problem, Roberta
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Talen…
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, why no question of tier?
Roberta Dalek: I’ve offered to host events – like a re-run of my Kraftwerk event
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, what I meant, Sudane, is that private sims don’t have tier ‘tecnically’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So Uma Bauhaus just needs to pay the Lindens 195 USD every month
Sudane Erato: i see
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the private sim does not count towards tier.
Roberta Dalek: which she should get from taxes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely, Roberta.
Roberta Dalek: if we sort outselves out
Sudane Erato: but individuals could no longer contribute tier?
Talen Morgan: and we only need 50k lindens to meet that 195
Roberta Dalek: they wouldn’t need to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There would be no need…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless we’d want to ‘expand’ into the mainland, lol
Talen Morgan: no you cant contribute tier to a sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, this would be much fairer upon the nice people who are donating tier right now.
Talen Morgan: its one property individually owned
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, talen…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, the more I think about that, the more I like it
Roberta Dalek: me too
Sudane Erato: yes, perhaps
Roberta Dalek: it works on an economic level
Talen Morgan: with rentals , taxes, and a possible casino 50k a month is very easy to attain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can even rename the sim to be ‘Neualtenburg’
Sudane Erato: but, i strongly feel we must talk with Ulrika and Kendra about this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Talen Morgan: we will talk with all about this
Talen Morgan: but it will be a group decision
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, well… this is one of those things that should be ‘voted’ using the new model.
Roberta Dalek: But this does seem to be the way forward
Sudane Erato: of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, we can vote our suggestion…
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And eventually do a ‘referendum’ thingie.
Roberta Dalek: more sensible than trying to buy anzere piecemeal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about timings?
Talen Morgan: I dont think it warrants a vote….if parties are interested in putting up the funds to buy a sim and we are in agreement that a sim is warranted then we should do it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Talen. I agree.
Roberta Dalek: we don’t have to wait until the 4 months is up to move
Sudane Erato: no, there must be a vote, i think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My thoughts exactly, Roberta.
Roberta Dalek: but obviously the cost starts from when we move
Talen Morgan: no…but we should use those four months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The sooner, the better, because I really would like to concentrate on other things …
Roberta Dalek: but we need to build on the new sim in the 4 months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the private sim CAN be a replica of this one.
Roberta Dalek: there is no point in building new things in anzere
Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case, we can build stuff here, and just ask the Lindens to do a copy & paste
Talen Morgan: we should use the free resources we have now to generate income to help with the sim if thats what gets decided
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That makes sense, talen.
Sudane Erato: or we can do a copy and paste
Roberta Dalek: we need a casino and a community centre/arts centre to host events
Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw the MoMA is looking fantastic…
Talen Morgan: casino is easy…I already own 2 and have all the games necessary
Sudane Erato: Ulrika is working hard on it
Talen Morgan: I can give them to ulrikas alt to use
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But most events I’ve hosted (besides the ones at the Church and the restaurant) have been at the ’empty area’ by the Spital…
Sudane Erato: great
Roberta Dalek: we need to decide whether we want to do house rentals whilst things are up in the air
Gwyneth Llewelyn: great, Talen, thanks
Talen Morgan: casino’s bring in a lot of money
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, house rentals would be a great help towards financing the acquisition of the sim…
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And they surely do, talen… especially IF we have our own telehub (which is the case of a private sim) AND the sim is connected to the mainland!
Talen Morgan: and house rentals in the sim would help defer costs
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: the issue with house rentals is defining the landlord/city relationship
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Roberta Dalek: uma is the landlord
Talen Morgan: yes I just built a casino right next to a telehub…it is very nice )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Under the current model, technically, the landlords are the people donating tier…
Roberta Dalek: you pay the treasury
Sudane Erato: no, Ulrika was right
Sudane Erato: there is work involved
Sudane Erato: from what I have seen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The future sim will have Uma as landlord, so, the question will be moot…
Sudane Erato: its like buying and selling land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you mean, Sudane?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That we should have someone responsible for dealing with the rentals?
Sudane Erato: from what i can see, the landlord must maintain a relationship with the tenant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. setting up the appropriate scripts, running after people, etc.
Sudane Erato: yes, running after people
Talen Morgan: we are the landlord….the city will take care of it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any volunteers? lol
Talen Morgan: there are scripts available to take care of renters
Sudane Erato: doesn’t seem like you can set it up like a store
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Talen, but I guess Sudane is right…
Talen Morgan: each house should have its own land so when they dont pay just return all from that land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There often is the need for help… like returning objects and so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So micro-parceling?
Roberta Dalek: what is the smallest piece land can be parcelled into? if land is parcelled then that takes care of prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That sounds right….
Talen Morgan: and use rental scripts to take the money
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4 sq m I think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or was it 16?
Talen Morgan: 16m2
Sudane Erato: very small
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, 16.
Talen Morgan: so we can parcel the land for rentals which makes it very easy
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… any of you own a private sim?
Sudane Erato: hehe!
Talen Morgan: and they cant go over their prim limits
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I never saw the Estate menu…
Talen Morgan: I am in the process of buying one now
Sudane Erato: that would be interesting to see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, ok, talen. But in theory, the sim owner can even ‘eject’ people when they’re ‘owners’ of a parcel, right?
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So you could actually give the small plots to somebody…
Talen Morgan: they wouldnt own the parcel
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Charge them rents, etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If they don’t pay, ‘remove ownership’.
Talen Morgan: the parcel is still owned by the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is a very, very strong argument for going the way of a private sim!
Talen Morgan: but it is parceled so they have a prim limit
Sudane Erato: is there a “rental” ownership?
Roberta Dalek: no
Talen Morgan: no just rental
Talen Morgan: you cant sell private sim land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, under that model – private sim – there ‘sort of’ is an ‘ownership’
Talen Morgan: only transfer the whole sim to another
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you can’t have the land as yours?
Roberta Dalek: but you can parcel and rent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Parcel & rent is ok.
Talen Morgan: we can parcel and rent but they cant own land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But no editing, terraforming, etc…
Roberta Dalek: we wouldn’t want to sell anyway as we would lose control of the land
Talen Morgan: the group would own the land
Sudane Erato: i thought that Uma would own the land?
Roberta Dalek: I rent from TLC and it is fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was my point, Roberta. As Estate owner, you seem to have all nifty tools to ‘control’ the way stuff is used in the private sim…
Talen Morgan: yes no editing ….only group members will be able to work the land
Roberta Dalek: Uma would be the owner – but it would be set to group?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Talen Morgan: the group hasx to buy
Talen Morgan: you can tell the lindens we are buying as a group and they set it to group land but uma is still responsible for the payment
Sudane Erato: oh! i see
Talen Morgan: only one person can own a sim
Roberta Dalek: but as uma is the treasury…
Roberta Dalek: and not a real person
Sudane Erato: but the group is still recognized
Roberta Dalek: it works
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As I said, this is a particularly good way to get out of this mess…
Talen Morgan: yes thats why we set it up before we buy to group so all of the group members can build and return things and work the land
Talen Morgan: and its much cheaper than trying to buy parcels in this sim
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, another question, Talen… will that work for ALL members, or just the officers?
Talen Morgan: all members
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and that’s REALLY true, much much cheaper!)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: yes, much!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that every member can eject people, or return objects, etc?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Talen Morgan: i would guess it would cost around 2k real money to purchase this sim in parcels
Roberta Dalek: if we managed it
Talen Morgan: only officers could eject I think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem is the big ‘if’
Talen Morgan: not tottaly sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok.
Roberta Dalek: and we’d need tier unlike in a private sim
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seems that we need a session with Haney or someone else…
Roberta Dalek: if think only officers – and the members can vote to demote an officer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or, Talen, since you’re buying a private sim, perhaps you could give us feedback on that…
Talen Morgan: members can vote to demote an officer
Roberta Dalek: that’s what recall elections are
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Talen Morgan: absolutely
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, with 50+ people, group elections hardly accomplish anything…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I don’t trust those, lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Roberta Dalek: I presume that we onlt have 3 months left now
Talen Morgan: around that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, we COULD have a Neualtenburger group for doing the proposals and the voting…
Talen Morgan: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No need of scripting kiosks. What do you think?
Roberta Dalek: but more groups causes problems
Talen Morgan: much easier
Talen Morgan: no this would be a RA group
Sudane Erato: don’t understand
Roberta Dalek: I’m generally at my group max
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, me too
Roberta Dalek: RA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Representative Assembly.
Talen Morgan: and when a vote is up each member gets it as soon as they log in
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, what do you think? Should we have a kiosk or a group for the bill voting?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only issue would be accountability…
Roberta Dalek: are votes secret in group elections?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a problem. Yes.
Talen Morgan: I think a group will work but I dont think it will tell us who voted what which is needed
Sudane Erato: sorry, i don’t fully understand the group voting
Roberta Dalek: we can’t have secret voting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Talen. You’re right, I forgot that…
Talen Morgan: I dont think it will work as we want it too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, you can propose things and submit them for voting inside a group.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a ‘seldom used’ feature…
Talen Morgan: but we should suggest to the lindens that it should be added
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mostly used to recall officers.
Sudane Erato: i see
Roberta Dalek: or for adverts normally tbh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, talen. That would be an idea, yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yeah, that too, Roberta 😛
Roberta Dalek: I think we need to get back to the land point and agree a way forward – will Talen and Gwyn laise with Ulrika and Kendra?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I’ll email them…
Talen Morgan: hmm wish we had polls in world because they can be set up to show who voted what
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed…
Sudane Erato: a kiosk could do that, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we still need the kiosk.
Talen Morgan: yes
Talen Morgan: just needs to be scripted
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, I wish I had much more free time for SL
Talen Morgan: I can talk to eggy or we ca ask ulrika to taslk to him….easy job for him to create
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could do that in 3 days if nobody’d interrupt me…. however, that’s as likely as the Lindens suddenly ofering us Anzere, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Eggy… pfft
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, he could do it in a few hours
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But GETTING him to do anything is the hard part, lol
Talen Morgan: yes very true
Sudane Erato: does he need $$?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: naah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: he’s an utter anarchist, lol
Sudane Erato: LOL
Roberta Dalek: can we get feedback re: the land at the next meeting? I think it’s important that this doesn’t drag on for 3 months…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Agreed, Roberta.
Sudane Erato: agree
Talen Morgan: I like Anarchist….I’m one myself lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol talen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But there are two types of anarchists…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The ‘lazy, unpredictable’ type
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the ‘involved’ anarchist
Roberta Dalek: active or passive anarchism?
Sudane Erato: Involved?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, well, the ones that actually do lots of stuff, hehe
Sudane Erato: like involved at the GPO?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: GPO?
Sudane Erato: sorry…
Sudane Erato: my initials wrong
Sudane Erato: the world financial summit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… I see, lol. Well…
Roberta Dalek: anarcho-capitalists are something very different
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s drop that
Talen Morgan: lol
Roberta Dalek: anyway… back to business
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) We have a concrete suggestion for solving the land issue, and this should go both to Ulrika & Kendra
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) We should afterwards ask a few questions to the Lindens…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To Slow Haney first
Talen Morgan: what do we need to ask them?
Sudane Erato:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But probably to others as well, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Roberta Dalek: yes what do we need to ask them?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) How feasible is for them to change slightly the Group Voting tools?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. can we expect a timeframe for that?
Sudane Erato: but not regarding the sim purchase?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, that should be 2)
Talen Morgan: thats not really a question to ask but something to put in the feature discussion forum….even if they do like it they will take months to implement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 3) the group voting things.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that depends. I remember that the Estate functions were implemented quite quickly, between two releases.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a question of prioritizing work.
Talen Morgan: thats true
Roberta Dalek: this wouldn’t be a priority really
Talen Morgan: but that impacted quite a few people who spend money…the group thing will have less impact me thinks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm probably
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so we need a scripter again…
Roberta Dalek: I still don’t understand what you want to ask the Lindens are how Haney comes into this
Roberta Dalek: and
Sudane Erato: With or without that, the private sim issue stands as the priority
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I just feel that we should explain them our decisions, that’s all.
Talen Morgan: yes the land situation needs to be resolved one way or another
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: we have nothing needing a referendum to decide
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since they need 2 weeks for setting up the sim…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And perhaps some extra time for copying & pasting Anzere unto the new sim.
Talen Morgan: I dont think LL needs any explanation from us….
Sudane Erato: we need a timeline for that decision
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No explanation? Hmm.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: Talen, i agree
Talen Morgan: we can copy and paste the entire sim in minutes if need be
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow. How??
Sudane Erato: but, Ulrika and Kendra deserve an explanation
Talen Morgan: this building for example
Roberta Dalek: yes – Ulrika and Kendra certainly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…
Talen Morgan: select all and drop the whole thing in one piece into inventory then drop it on the new land…keep all selected and position
Gwyneth Llewelyn: brb… just 1 min
Sudane Erato: talen, question from a newbie (me)
Sudane Erato: how do you select all?
Talen Morgan: hmmm been a while since I hgave done it myself I have to remember
Sudane Erato: if everything were linked…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… I don’t really care about the ‘how’, lol. The great news is that it is POSSIBLE!
Sudane Erato: Good!
Talen Morgan: I have several of my houses in inventory that arent linked like that…basically click edit land and then ther structure
Talen Morgan: I’ll remember in time though lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: so, what’s next?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: back, sorry
Talen Morgan: click edit land then click then click the structure and all the pievces will be highlighted…then drag to inventory…when you drop click edit land first then drop and all will be selected
Sudane Erato: interesting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And when you drop it again, it will fit into the same way it was before?
Talen Morgan: nice when working with big builds that cant be tottaly linked
Talen Morgan: probably not but all will be selected so they will all move as one piece
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, talen, precisely. I have to tell that trick to lots of people, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Last time, we just approved the ‘no taxes on events’ bill…
Talen Morgan: just have to remember to click edit land before you drop the structure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We had a second bill to discuss
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Regarding the ‘time of office’
Sudane Erato: term?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since last time there was just Sudane and me, we wanted to discuss that with more people present.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Namely, you, Talen…. lol
Talen Morgan: I think that should wait till we have a voting kiosk up and running
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, but we can discuss it
Roberta Dalek: well I think we should stay until we move – and then have naother election?
Talen Morgan: waiting for lil ol me lol
Sudane Erato: roberta, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The bill, s proposed by Ulrika, was to reduce it to 2 months.
Roberta Dalek: I don’t think we need another election when we are trying to move
Talen Morgan: personally I think the terms should be 4 months…I know most of the people involved and 2 months is too short
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This will be put to voting on the kiosk, but let’s have your opinion…
Sudane Erato: perhaps we should move, then call a new election
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Ulrika’s proposal was just for the NEXT election, not as a general rule!
Roberta Dalek: moving will be taking Neualtenburg out of beta, so to speak
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Talen Morgan: yes
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also agree upon that myself.
Talen Morgan: we will be version 1.0
Sudane Erato: good!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (this means that I will vote against Ulrika’s suggestion)
Roberta Dalek: I propose election after move
Sudane Erato: guess we all will
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless, of course, we move BEFORE the end of the Anzere lease.
Roberta Dalek: not in the middle of everything
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, Talen proposed that we should use all the alloted time here “for free” to raise more money
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree with that!
Sudane Erato: we must move before the end
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, one month before or so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 weeks notice for the Lindens to set up the new sim.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, around the beginning of May.
Talen Morgan: right now very few are even involed so I dont think election terms will make a difference seeing as the same people will probably be involved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is also a very good argument
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Roberta Dalek: beginning of may is too late
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, here comes a tricky part
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If we are unanimous on that…
Roberta Dalek: as it is bound to slip
Sudane Erato: roberta, I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll have 4 votes out of 7
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, unless any of us changes their voting at the kiosk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The probablity is that this Bill will not pass
Talen Morgan: why is that?
Sudane Erato: we have modified the bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you’re right.
Sudane Erato: so, now it will pass
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The new bill is, elections after the move.
Sudane Erato: yes
Talen Morgan: but the other members should have their say as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be around May 22 or so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, Talen.
Sudane Erato: it will be a celebration
Sudane Erato: but we should try to move earlier
Roberta Dalek: neu-neualtenburg
Talen Morgan: we can hold public executions to mark the event )
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sudane Erato: lol
Sudane Erato: who?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fireworks would be more appropriate
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Talen Morgan: ok we can shoot them out of cannons
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Roberta Dalek: do we have an actual date when the 4 months is up?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: May 22
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Waiat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rechecking, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Haney sent me an email
Talen Morgan: thats about right I believe
Roberta Dalek: when did the lease end?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One of his telegraphic emails…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, on the 16th
Talen Morgan: jan 19th I think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes
Sudane Erato: i do not see the benefir of staying here any longer than necessary
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 19th was Monday if I recall correctly
Talen Morgan: there is great benefit
Sudane Erato: yes?
Talen Morgan: it gives us time to plan and it gives us time to earn money by using free land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here is the full text of Haney’s mail…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wanted you to know that the lease for Anzere has been extended to May 22, 2005 but won’t be extended further due to a change in Linden policy. We appreciate your work.
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sudane Erato: but we have not earned money so far..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 40 K, Sudane!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s not much, but something!
Sudane Erato: I see little likelyhood of our temporary stay causing a change in that
Talen Morgan: but we can make an effort to use this free resource to make money before the move and we will need some time to plan
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The next bill, which we have discussed last meeting, was about renting houses.
Sudane Erato: I have only inspected Ulrika’s records
Roberta Dalek: we need to get the casino up and running – and we need to get the land ready before the 22nd so we can just open the sim when ready
Sudane Erato: gross reveniues were 28,000
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sorry. Perhaps 28,000 is the correct figure
Sudane Erato: which meant 10% for neualt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, sorry
Sudane Erato: the rest for the artisans
Gwyneth Llewelyn: very true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes.
Talen Morgan: we can get the sim beforehand but I think we should use the land till the last minute
Roberta Dalek: yes
Roberta Dalek: as its a free resource
Sudane Erato: talen, i agree completely
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, in any case, Talen, that would only be a question of a few weeks before May, 22
Sudane Erato: except, the tier then is very expensive
Talen Morgan: it is a free resource and I’m sure we can think of ways to use it to our advantage
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Sudane Erato: there is still tier here, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, actually, I need some clarification…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who runs the events, the RA or the Guild?
Talen Morgan: yes but very few are carrying the load as it were
Sudane Erato: some will need to carry the new load, too
Talen Morgan: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no!
Talen Morgan: only one
Roberta Dalek: the new sim won’t have tier
Sudane Erato: yes yes, i know
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The ‘new load’ will be the city gathering US$195 every month in L$…
Talen Morgan: the new sim can only be owned by one person
Roberta Dalek: which means that we need to *do* stuff to make money
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed!
Sudane Erato: but i’m saying that there will need to be the responsibility shared
Talen Morgan: yes and getting the rental houses and casino if it is agreed on up
Sudane Erato: Uma must keep a positive balance in her bank account!
Roberta Dalek: I have 15 minutes left btw
Talen Morgan: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. You’re talking about the ‘worse case scenario’, meaning, if we CANNOT get around L$ 30,000 every month, what happens then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I have to go as well)
Sudane Erato: well, yes i am.
Roberta Dalek: Well we haven’t come close yet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, there is a suggestion on a ‘citizen’s tax’
Sudane Erato: I got very discouraged examining Ulrika’s records
Roberta Dalek: No work was done on the economy, this is why
Roberta Dalek: It is do-able
Sudane Erato: yes, and this must change
Sudane Erato: and until it changes, some must take responsibility
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about the ‘citizen’s tax’?
Roberta Dalek: Okay – renting houses – I propse that we parcel each house – and rent for a market rent using a script to maintain payments
Sudane Erato: yes, i like that idea
Talen Morgan: if housing and a casino are implemented we will start to see good numbers
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 60 citizens, paying 500 per month…
Talen Morgan: and we will get merchants to come in as well
Sudane Erato: but then there must be a real incentive to be a “citizen”
Roberta Dalek: Gwyn – basics would just leave
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s assume that many will drop Neualtenburg because of the taxes, but we can raise them to L$1000/month
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Talen Morgan: taxing is the wrong choice
Roberta Dalek: we need to do stuff first
Sudane Erato: hehe
Roberta Dalek: lets rent and build the casino and see what the shiortfall is
Talen Morgan: rental units will work but if you tax them on top of that no one will live there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah talen, I was just trying to cover the ‘worse case scenario’ in case not even renting and the casino and the item sales bring a profit…
Roberta Dalek: and then see if we need a flat tax
Talen Morgan: merchants will be taxed as well
Sudane Erato: someone needs to be “fallback” responsible
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just brainstorming, lol
Sudane Erato: just like now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, uh, Sudane… we (I mean the RA!) is!
Talen Morgan: I have no problem with helping with costs
Sudane Erato: nor i
Talen Morgan: the sim will take time to become self sufficient
Roberta Dalek: Ok – as time is limited do we have agreement to start work on the house renting and casino so we don’t have to wait another week?
Sudane Erato: it just must be agreed that this will be necessary
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can certainly share 1/7th of the cost of the sim… no problem!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Roberta, those need a vote at the kiosk as well
Talen Morgan: yes
Sudane Erato: I suggest we try to approve them
Sudane Erato: however
Sudane Erato: here, or kiosk
Talen Morgan: and we must be careful if it does pass to let those know that the lease is up in may
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I have ANOTHER idea… IM voting.
Talen Morgan: I say we use the forums for this first vote while we get the kiosk started
Sudane Erato: yes, that could be good
Sudane Erato: IM voting
Talen Morgan: use the pole option for each item
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Forum voting, then… fine by me!
Roberta Dalek: as an interim measure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you can see who voted on the polls? I didn’t know that….
Talen Morgan: yes
Sudane Erato: talen, it must be the private forum then
Sudane Erato: or the public will vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Talen Morgan: yes you can set up the pole so you can see who voted for what
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Ok. That’s great to know. Does that work on Christiano’s forums as well?
Talen Morgan: I dont know about SL universe forums but we can check
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Sudane Erato: lets agree to continue this there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree…
Roberta Dalek: I have to go now
Talen Morgan: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too
Talen Morgan: I think we got a lot accomplished
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: i agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not a lot, lol, but at least something. The private sim idea was finally sorted out
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because last week we were very sceptic about it…
Talen Morgan: thats a lot in my book lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But now it seems that it’s the best choice, by far!
Roberta Dalek: and we’ve agreed to vote on money making suggestions
Talen Morgan: wait till aLL OF US ARE PRESENT AND SEE HOW MUCH GETS DONE LOL
Roberta Dalek: which is a priority
Gwyneth Llewelyn: good point, hehe
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree, Roberta. I *have* been getting some suggestions from business investors in SL…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, no clear trends…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Some say ‘tear it all apart and just put casinos and malls’
Roberta Dalek: well they would
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Others say ‘invest in GOM’
Talen Morgan: if you are speaking of Ginko and Jaqueline they don’t know as much as they pretend to
Roberta Dalek: we can be a pogressive projevt and be solvent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, that’s really INTERESTING
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I love gossip ))
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have heard a very similar argument from a friend, but I dismissed it, actually.
Talen Morgan: they will tell you all manner of things but never give you the back up on it….they have both been held to the fire in the general forums and have come up wanting
Roberta Dalek: their bank looks like a pyramid scheme tbh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmmmmmm
Talen Morgan: it is …he’s using it to fund his casino…if he ever gets nailed by a few high jackpots the bank goes under
Roberta Dalek: anyway we can do a hell of a lot better
Talen Morgan: I know the games they use and its a very real possibility
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We just do it the ‘traditional way’… casinos, items, rentals, events…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Roberta Dalek: yes – we just need to do them
Sudane Erato: maybe Neualt should start a bank?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, thanks a lot for that piece of info, lol
Roberta Dalek: we’d need to decide what the bank would be for and how it would make any money
Talen Morgan: just rememeb whoever owns the casino needs to keep about 10-20 k on them at all times to cover possible wins
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s too soon, Sudane… but another thing I’d like to see – perhaps in 2006 – is an Arbitration and Moderation service
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, a Private Court.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s very true, Talen
Talen Morgan: mostly never happens but it can
Roberta Dalek: the casino would need to be owned by the treasury I presume
Talen Morgan: yes
Talen Morgan: well no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, you’re the SECOND person telling me that, but I’ve dismissed the other guy’s opinion. Now I’m not so sure if he was just ranting or if he really knew what he was talking about. Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no, Sudane, you just need the machines to deal transactions with Uma Bauhaus.
Talen Morgan: the trerasury should be kept seperate and the casino owner should only keep funds for the casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.
Sudane Erato: yes
Talen Morgan: the games can have set limits too so after a certain amount goes out it has to be reset
Talen Morgan: the games can have set limits too so after a certain amount goes out it has to be reset
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… I’m sorry… Roberta must leave, and so do I.
Roberta Dalek: yep
Roberta Dalek: I am supposed to be hosting at 12
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, thanks a lot for your ideas, lol
Roberta Dalek: lets hope we get progress
Sudane Erato: yes, thank you all!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’ve got 1 minute to teleport, Roberta…
Talen Morgan: no problem thats what we’re all here for
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I surely hope so.,
Roberta Dalek: bye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… meeting adjourned? lol
Talen Morgan: yup
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, let me just keep a copy of history….RA Meeting: February 20, 2005
Sudane Erato: we could.
Lance LeFay: This is my first one, I just got the invite today.
Lance LeFay: Because Pendari is out, or something.
Sudane Erato: Yes, so welcome welcome!
Roberta Dalek: welcome to RA lance
Lance LeFay: Thanks
Roberta Dalek: sudane do you want to chair?
Sudane Erato: In the penguin i put the bills
Sudane Erato: Well, I guess
Sudane Erato: feel a bit shy about that
Roberta Dalek: i will if you want
Sudane Erato: sure!
Roberta Dalek: ok
Roberta Dalek: Can someone else take the chat log as minutes to post on the forums?
Sudane Erato: yes, i can do that
Roberta Dalek: great! lets start
Lance LeFay: I have an object for that, somewhere..
Roberta Dalek: does everyone have the bills
Lance LeFay: Yup
Sudane Erato: you have a chat recorder?
Lance LeFay: Yeah, I do
Lance LeFay: I made it for the first Neualtenburg meeting
Sudane Erato: we’ve got to talk… later
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 1 Elimination of the Events Tax.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 2 RA Elections in 2 Months.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 3 Authorizing Residential Rentals.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 4 Authorizing the Casino.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 5 Recruiting New Members.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 6 A Money System.
Penguin for 2005-2-20 gave you Bill 7 Talen Morgan to replace Pendari Lorentz.
Roberta Dalek: Ok – I propose that we go through each bill in turn
Sudane Erato: yes, good
Lance LeFay: Numerically?
Sudane Erato: sure.
Roberta Dalek: but first of all we need to formally welcome Lance to the RA – representing the MPP – replacing Pendrai Lorenz
Roberta Dalek: So welcome Lance LeFay
Lance LeFay: Right, but Talen is the head, or at least that’s what was voted on
Sudane Erato: agreed!
Sudane Erato: yes,
Roberta Dalek: Talen is the head but is absent from this meeting
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn is online
Roberta Dalek: Gywn is the head of the SDF but is also absent
Roberta Dalek: Gwyn!
Lance LeFay: Speaking of which!
Roberta Dalek: yay
Sudane Erato: she appears to be coming
Lance LeFay: I love it when hair loads.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, sorry I’m late 🙁
Sudane Erato: hi Gwyn!
Lance LeFay: It’s okay, we just started
Roberta Dalek: Gwyn – the bills are in Sudane’s penguin, lance’s chat recorder is taking minutes, amd i was chairing in your absence
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh thanks a lot, Roberta!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And a big, warm welcome to lance 🙂
Lance LeFay: Thank yeh
Roberta Dalek: done!
Sudane Erato: Yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, and thanks as well for the ‘bill penguin’, Sudane 🙂
Roberta Dalek: Gywn – would you like the chair back?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh no, please go on, Roberta :)(
Roberta Dalek: I’ve propsoed going through each bill in turn
Roberta Dalek: Has everyone got the bills?
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: just not me yet, lol
Lance LeFay: I’m sure Bill here would be happy to give them to you.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, got them!
Sudane Erato: 🙂 I just think of him as Penguin 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
Lance LeFay: Maybe we should vote on it? 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol why not?
Roberta Dalek: Bill #1 has already been agreed. That was the elimination of the events tax due to changes in event support
Sudane Erato: Yes. Just put there for completeness
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think we can safely go to the next one…
Lance LeFay: Agreed, next bill.
Roberta Dalek: Bill #2 was proposed by Ulrika and wanted the next RA elections to take place in March. The previous consensus of discussion was that we should wait until we move
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Roberta Dalek: This hasn’t been formally voted on
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that we should take a formal vote now, since we have certainly over 50% of the RA attending…
Sudane Erato: There appear to be many strong opinions about this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but I also remember that Talen thought that 4 months were ok…
Sudane Erato: I would support the wait til after
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that we can set the elections for, say, end of May (after the move)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and that will make everybody happy 🙂
Roberta Dalek: yes – lets have a discussion – I propose that it is guillotined at 10.30 – and then a vote
Lance LeFay: Sounds good to me.
Sudane Erato: guillotined?
Lance LeFay: Cut off
Sudane Erato: what an image 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha 😀
Lance LeFay: Certianly gets the point across.
Roberta Dalek: we have a lot of business to get through – so having a time limit for each dicussion will ensure we get through most of it – I hope
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re good at this, Roberta, we should have you permanently as Chair 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Lance LeFay: Okay, so, about the march election dates.
Sudane Erato: May
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let me present Ulrika’s argumens (not mine) on this.
Lance LeFay: The bill says march, doesn’t it?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika wanted a ‘shorter first term’.
Roberta Dalek: Ulrika’s proposal was that it will help keep the group engaged politically
Gwyneth Llewelyn: MM hmm
Roberta Dalek: Go Gwyn
Sudane Erato: Sorry, right. March is what Ulrika proposed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I think that Ulrika proposed this because she also feels that we are really ‘just starting’
Sudane Erato: true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning that lots of things have really to be in place before we have the Government thingie really operational…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So her idea was, let’s have a short term first, concentrate on putting all things we need in place, and do a new election…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The new Government will then start with much more things in place!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I’m strictly speaking for Ulrika, and not my own opinion 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, however, thinks that the RA should have a 4-month term, as suggested in the forums.
Roberta Dalek: Are you finsihed/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. I think I’ll just add that I respect Ulrika’s opinion, but I tend to agree with Talen.
Roberta Dalek: My position would be that the most important thing to set up would be the land we need for our continuation
Roberta Dalek: and we should wait until we move – and have a new RA as a new start
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: I feel that Ulrika has over estimated the involvement in the political process…
Roberta Dalek: I don’t think we need elections in the middle of everything else
Sudane Erato: both elections and on-going RA
Lance LeFay: I agree with Talen as well. I don’t think the RA has had enough time yet (or will by the 20th) to accomplish much.
Lance LeFay: But should establish itself by May.
Sudane Erato: I think we need to establish stability, even with our newly elected unit
Sudane Erato: Then, immediately after we are re-located, we call new elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m silent, because I fully agree with all your views 🙂
Roberta Dalek: I agree
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Roberta Dalek: So we are talking about elections in the end of may
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: I suggest elections immediately after e-location, whenever that is
Roberta Dalek: I propose amending Ulrika’s bill and replacing 19th/20th March will the end of May
Roberta Dalek: *with
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just a short interruption… technically, we should do the following: 1) Vote on the proposed bill (elections in March) and 2) if the bill does not pass, amend it or 3) submit a new bill with a new date.
Roberta Dalek: ty
Roberta Dalek: Ok – lets vote on the bill as currently stands
Lance LeFay: Nay here.
Chat Recorder: blah
Roberta Dalek: nay
Chat Recorder: blah
Chat Recorder: blah
Roberta Dalek: nay
Chat Recorder: blah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain…
Chat Recorder: blah
Lance LeFay: Uhoh..
Chat Recorder: blah
Sudane Erato: No
Chat Recorder: blah
Lance LeFay: Chat recorder bugged..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does it only reply to aye and nay?
Sudane Erato: whats with the chat recorder?
Roberta Dalek: I record that as 3 nay, and one abstention
Sudane Erato: good
Roberta Dalek: The bill therefore falls
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well, Lance, you can fix that later 🙂
Lance LeFay: It ran out of memory on one script and tried to go to the next.. but it didn’t work for some reason.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, should we propose an amendment to the bill, then?
Lance LeFay: My scripts always break at the worst possible moment.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe 🙂
Roberta Dalek: Please propose an amendment
Sudane Erato: Lance, I’ll keep it
Lance LeFay: Yes- general consensus seems to be end of may, yes?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: OK, I’ll go with it. So the date is definite
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to propose a suggestion…
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t know *exactly* the date for the ‘official move’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’d propose the 2nd weekend after LL has given us the new sim and we have entirely copied Neualtenburg to the new sim
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This could be slightly eariler or later than May 30th.
Lance LeFay: Do we know that we actually are getting a sim?
Sudane Erato: that would be closer to my feelings about it
Lance LeFay: I’ve been out of the loop for a little bit.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or May 31st, lol. Forgot that May has 31 days 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet, Lance, but our consensus is that we should have one private sim. However, this is something to be discussed yet…
Lance LeFay: Right, funding could be an… issue.
Sudane Erato: A bill has not been prepared about this.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely. We need to know how much income we get from casino & rentals first.
Roberta Dalek: this leads on to the discussions around the casino and rentals
Sudane Erato: Guess we must. 🙂
Roberta Dalek: so I propose that we leave this until later in the agenda
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So I suggest amending the bill to have elections on the 2nd weekend after the move.
Lance LeFay: Agreed- we should pick it back up during the casino bill.
Sudane Erato: Agreed
Roberta Dalek: what is for sure is that we have to move *somewhere*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Sudane Erato: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we vote on that amendment then?
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: Lets vote on Gymn’s amendement
Lance LeFay: Why exactly are we going to have to move? Have the lindens said that they’re cutting the project after this lease?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, yes.
Lance LeFay: Ah.
Roberta Dalek: change of LL policy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, they stopped promoting ‘finantially’ residents’ projects.
Roberta Dalek: so.. all those in favour of gywn’s amendment
Lance LeFay: But don’t we have the tier for this?
Lance LeFay: Aye.
Roberta Dalek: but not the land
Roberta Dalek: aye
Sudane Erato: In favor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, to be consisten, I abstain again.
Roberta Dalek: okay – i record that as 3 in favour and one abstention
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: the bill as amended passes
Roberta Dalek: me and sudane to organise – and lance to be kept in the loop if he has time
Sudane Erato: Agreed. Roberta, we can set a time after the mtg
Lance LeFey: It’s manageable in a single day, if we devote a couple hours to it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Ulrika also suggested that we should do it one Viertel at a time.
Sudane Erato: is that a section?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: a ‘quarter’, hehe
Roberta Dalek: its a city quarter
Sudane Erato: my German is non-existent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Viertel = quarter
Sudane Erato: ahhh 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or a ‘block’ if you prefer. A ‘neighbourhood’. Whetever. in our city map, each Viertel has it’s own colour…
Lance LeFey: ALabaster, are you actually still there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Blue, red, green, magenta.
Sudane Erato: he is 🙂
Roberta Dalek: i don’t see him
Lance LeFey: He’s back here
Lance LeFey: I think he’s AFK though.
Alabaster Mendicant: hadahfdaahf
Lance LeFey: I… see.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh. hello Alabaster, I failed completely to notice you 🙂
Alabaster Mendicant: dont worry
Alabaster Mendicant: im afk
Lance LeFey: He’s been there since before you got here 😉
Roberta Dalek: ok – well observers are allowed – but he can’t contribute as he’s not a member of the ra or of the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, this is a public meeting to HEAR, not to speak 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Roberta Dalek: ok – shall i take a formal group on the setting up of the survey team?
Sudane Erato: he’s been very quiet
Roberta Dalek: vote
Sudane Erato: sure, but I guess we should write this up, too
Roberta Dalek: the survey team will report back *something* by the next RA meeting
Sudane Erato: good
Lance LeFey: Sounds good.
Roberta Dalek: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Anyway, one thing we can say is that property rentals will be valid only until the ‘move date’, or May 22nd, whichever comes first, to be honest with our ‘rentees’….
Sudane Erato: In favor
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And ‘aye’ on that as well
Sudane Erato: Not again!
Roberta Dalek: okay – 4 in favour of the setting up of the survey group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Roberta Dalek: that passes
Roberta Dalek: all those in favour of rentals being until move date?
Roberta Dalek: aye
Lance LeFey: Aye
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Roberta Dalek: four in favour – passes
Roberta Dalek: Do we need to do anything else on this issue until next week?
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Lance LeFey: I don’t think so.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now there is something on Sudane’s amendment on the bill that we should discuss as well, and is fully independent of ‘available houses’ or ‘how much should we charge’ which we will probably discuss next meeting…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: I’d like to understand and study the rent-a-cube concept
Sudane Erato: mostly so we understand the issues
Roberta Dalek: ok – I can take you to see some if we want
Sudane Erato: I think the “no landlord” concept is very attractive
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My point is, should renting be done to ‘citizens’, should rentees become automatically citizens, or should they have a separate status?
Roberta Dalek: and will try and get a notecard from the creator
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, that’s another important point
Roberta Dalek: I think rentees should be citizens – as they are living here
Lance LeFey: I don’t think citizenship should be mandatory for Rentees
Lance LeFey: We’d get far less rentals, and if we’re going to be depending on rentals for income
Lance LeFey: That’s a bad thing.
Sudane Erato: I think that needs to be part of the Bill of Rights discussion
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Sudane… to clarify the rent-o-matic… it’s simply a ‘clock’, set to send IMs to people if they don’t pay in time, and alert the owner when someone did not pay.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to citizenship… hmm
Roberta Dalek: its a box that people pay to rent a space – if they do not pay the space becomes available for rent againa
Sudane Erato: Must be more than a clock, since it controls the permissions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have very serious problems with ‘outsider renting’. My feeling is , whoever lives in Neualtenburg, contributes to the project, so they should ‘become’ citizens automatically.
Lance LeFey: It can’t really be more than a clock
Roberta Dalek: not it doesn’t control permissions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And no, Sudane, it doesn’t control permissions
Sudane Erato: Ahh.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That needs manual intervention
Lance LeFey: I think that membership, as always should be open, even encouraged to renters, but not mandatory.
Roberta Dalek: normally renters expect objects to be set to a group – so that auto return can be set on the land
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, lets make that discussion a Bill of Rights thing
Roberta Dalek: to remove crap automaticallt
Sudane Erato: Can we have a person or committe draft one?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Lance. My problem is ‘what about someone who wants to rent space but doesn’t want to be a citizen?;
Lance LeFey: Then that’s fine. However, in the city, they still have to abide by our rules
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, we have a few drafts on the forums already, Sudane!
Lance LeFey: Or they’re evicted
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Lance, they would have ‘immigrant status’ in that case.
Sudane Erato: Citizenship, Rights and benefits, and Obligations
Sudane Erato: sorry, didn’t see them
Roberta Dalek: I propose that we leave this until the next meeting
Roberta Dalek: and we get a concrete document to discuss
Sudane Erato: then we should form one and bring it as a bill
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’ll *try* to read all what was on the forums, and sketch out a resumed version on all discussions, and add a few of my own ideas (including the ‘immigrant status’)
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, aye, I agree on Roberta’s proposal
Sudane Erato: that would be great, if you can
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s hope so, lol, my past 2 weeks were utter nightmare 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (RL work, hehe)
Roberta Dalek: Ok – shall we call this discussion on bill 3 to a close for this meeting – and i’ll recap on what we have agreed
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Roberta Dalek: we agreed in principal to rent residential properties
Lance LeFey: Agreed
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye 🙂
Roberta Dalek: we agreed to survey the hosues we have and report back to the next meeting
Roberta Dalek: this is areview
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: we’ve already voted 🙂
Lance LeFey: Yes, the agreed I said was to do the review.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: right :))))
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Roberta Dalek: we agreed that the mex rental should be until the move date
Roberta Dalek: max
Sudane Erato: yes.
Roberta Dalek: we agreed to come back to everything else 😉
Sudane Erato: yes
Lance LeFey: So, bill 4, then?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right 🙂
Roberta Dalek: bill 4 – authorising the casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, have you told Lance and Roberta about the ‘possible friction’ we had?
Roberta Dalek: no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, bill #4 is included here just as a reference, we have already approved the casino…
Roberta Dalek: we haven’t when i checked
Lance LeFey: What is the friction?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. There seemed to be a slight misunderstanding on *who* would build it, and what was the ‘style’ to be adopted
Roberta Dalek: I don’t think quorum has been reached
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have two volunteers, Talen and Ulrika
Sudane Erato: well, i visited the site, figuring that Talen would be building…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen favours a build integrated into neualtenburgs’ ‘medieval’ setting
Lance LeFey: I’d go with Talen, just because Ulrika has done just about everything else.
Sudane Erato: but Ulrika has already started a building
Lance LeFey: Ah..
Sudane Erato: The style is really not the issue
Roberta Dalek: did Ulrika check with anyone before doing this?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Talen, however, would in any case get the machines, set up stuff, etc
Lance LeFey: Well, she started it without approval, didn’t she?
Sudane Erato: Or, even who does it
Sudane Erato: perhaps
Lance LeFey: This brings me to something I’ve been wondering about..
Roberta Dalek: I note that the in wordl tools say that the bill hasn’t even passed yet
Lance LeFey: How set up is the artisinal guild?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Technically, yes, Lance. She started it without an ‘approval’
Roberta Dalek: I’m not convinced the guild fucntions
Lance LeFey: Because it seems the report and the casino would be passed to the guild
Sudane Erato: I’ve spoken a bit with Catfart
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aah yes, another problem there, lance. Kendra is our Guildmeisterinn, but she doesn;t have much free time now, so the Guild will be run by Catfart for a while .
Lance LeFey: But if it isn’t really working, we don’t have much of a choice but to have RAers do it, do we?
Roberta Dalek: ok – thats fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe we should propose a bill to shake up the Guild a bit 🙂
Sudane Erato: I think so, tho Cat has said he’s interested in working
Roberta Dalek: I propose that we don’t reward Ulrika for satrting without approval
Lance LeFey: Agreed
Sudane Erato: No no. I think we should do anything to get a casino going, no matter who starts it.
Roberta Dalek: and that the decision on the style is taken by the guild (Catfart), in consultation with Talen who will be setting up the thing
Lance LeFey: While Ulrika’s intentions are good, she has been overstepping her bounds a bit. She started this project to get a representitive government going, didn’t she?
Sudane Erato: We must avoid a conflict!
Sudane Erato: Yep
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain on that vote as well, I mean, I won’t either encourage or discourage Ulrika. There are lots of things done in Neualtenburg without ‘proper approval’ because we couldn’t meet in time 🙁 On the other hand, I also don’t think we should
Gwyneth Llewelyn: encourage private initiatives
Sudane Erato: I agree with Gwyn
Lance LeFey: Right, this whole project is about organization and collaboration
Roberta Dalek: well if this is going to happen we do actually need to decide
Lance LeFey: We need to focus on that primarily
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed on that, lance.
Sudane Erato: I have tried to find Talen this weekend, to no avail
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me too, Sudane 🙁 🙁
Lance LeFey: On a side note, about the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: He was not 100% sure if he would have some time left…
Lance LeFey: I have an idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s hear ideas 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Roberta Dalek: We can’t take a “we mustn’t offend anyone” position as nothing will ever happen otherwise
Lance LeFey: Instead of doing the survey of the residences ourselves
Lance LeFey: We should comission the guild to do it
Sudane Erato: No, it needs to get done!
Lance LeFey: So we can test and see if the guild can actually function at this time.
Roberta Dalek: No we need to do it pronto
Lance LeFey: Let’s be honest here- the renting is probobly not going to work before we move. Isn’t the move date March 22nd?
Sudane Erato: I propose to work with Cat on the budget
Sudane Erato: that will see if the Guild can do anything
Lance LeFey: That’s barely more than a month from now, and we arn’t even going to work on pricing or details untill next meeting
Roberta Dalek: ok
Lance LeFey: After that the script needs to get set up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Move date is May 22nd
Roberta Dalek: of course
Lance LeFey: Well, then yeah
Sudane Erato: I think the RA should simply approve or dis-approve what the committe suggests
Lance LeFey: Let’s get working on that
Roberta Dalek: I’m lost here
Sudane Erato: yes
Lance LeFey: Never mind what I was saying
Roberta Dalek: What are we agreeing to?
Lance LeFey: I had the date wrong..
Roberta Dalek: Ok – we have already agreed to do a survey – I presume that still stands
Sudane Erato: yes!
Roberta Dalek: we are discussing the casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, well, Lance, sometimes it’s great to get the dates wrong, understand that we need to move fast in either case 🙂 So I can agree with your concerns!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the survey stands, and the RA is going to do it.
Sudane Erato: yes, we MUST move fast!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather, a RA-nominated commitee, to be more precise!
Sudane Erato: Thats why the casino matter is a setback
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to the casino…
Coreina Grace is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Again, I suggest that we do a ‘general vote;
Roberta Dalek: As far as I understand it – the discision on the style of the building should be taken by the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s correct, Roberta
Sudane Erato: 🙁
Roberta Dalek: so we leave that to catfart
Lance LeFey: Right, and as far as I understand the structure, so should the architect
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we can technically interfere, lol
Sudane Erato: I disagree
Lance LeFey: However, the unapproved initiative is a matter for the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s correct, Lance.
Sudane Erato: I think we should encourage the building however it gets done
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Roberta Dalek: no 1 – we need to give the overall yay or nay to the idea of a casino
Sudane Erato: Which I think the on-line vote did?
Lance LeFey: I think that’s been agreed, but let’s vote
Roberta Dalek: this hasn’t happened yet according to the in group voting
Lance LeFey: I vote Aye.
Roberta Dalek: aye
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought differently before this meeting, but I really think that’s overstepping on our ‘powers’. Ulrika is a Meister in the Guild and I think that Talen as well. So if it’s their job, they should be doing it as best as they can
Sudane Erato: which means?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No Sudane, i have checked, the in-world vote hasn’t finished yet because I got the dates wrong 🙁
Roberta Dalek: we are deciding on whether to have one or not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I vote aye on the casino.
Sudane Erato: oh 🙁
Roberta Dalek: so far I have three votes in favour
Lance LeFey: So Gwyn- Aye? Or nay?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, sorry, aye aye aye
Roberta Dalek: okay – 4 votes in favour – propsoal passes
Roberta Dalek: yay!
Sudane Erato: goord!
Sudane Erato: good
DRoberta Dalek: the dispte within the guild should be dealt with by the guild?
Lance LeFey: Aye
Sudane Erato: we don’t know there is a dispute
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point! But I think that should be a problem for the Guild as well
Roberta Dalek: we know that there is conflict
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Catfart should dela with it. I vote on having the Guild to sort it out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *deal
Roberta Dalek: and we know we need to get a move on
Roberta Dalek: okay – lets vote that cartfart should eal with it
Lance LeFey: Aye.
Roberta Dalek: deal
Lance LeFey: Sudane?
Sudane Erato: sorry, i’m getting confused
Sudane Erato: IM’s and chat
Lance LeFey: We’re voting that Catfart should deal with the dispute.
Roberta Dalek: okay – we are voting on the fact that any dispute over the style of the casino should be dealt with by the guild ie catfart
Sudane Erato: i think he will not
Roberta Dalek: well it is his job to do so
Roberta Dalek: if he does not then we need to revists
Roberta Dalek: revisit
Sudane Erato: we can vote that he should, but he will not
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the wording in the bill should be: ‘We think that the Guild should work it out’ If Catfart is willing or not, well, that’s his problem 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I agree, Roberta!
Sudane Erato: OK, that would be better, I guess
Roberta Dalek: aye
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye
Lance LeFey: Okay, so, are we done with Bill 4?
Lance LeFey: Aye.
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: okay -so 4 ayes – vote passes
Roberta Dalek: we agree that the guild should work it out
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, perhaps I should point out a detail on the casino bill…
Roberta Dalek: end of bill 4!
Roberta Dalek: oh ok
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which are the nitty-gritty details on the finantial plan
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane suggested that she (representing the RA) and the Guild representative for the casino should work them out – together.
Nate007 Groshomme is online
Sudane Erato: It was a suggestion
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like to propose that Sudane should deal with that in the RA’s name.
Sudane Erato: Someone must
Roberta Dalek: yes I agree
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, let’s turn the ‘suggestion’ in a ‘formal proposal’
Lance LeFey: It sounds good to me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “We, the Members of the RA, formally endow Sudane Erato as our representative for setting up the operating and financial plan for the casino to be created, working together with the Guild representative”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suonds formal enough? 🙂
Lance LeFey: Yup/
Roberta Dalek: aye
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: I accept if all agree
Lance LeFey: So, to the voting?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on having Sudane as representative.
Lance LeFey: AYe.
Roberta Dalek: lets vote
Roberta Dalek: aye
Lance LeFey: Four ayes, then?
Sudane Erato: aye
Roberta Dalek: ok
Roberta Dalek: 4 vote in favour – vote passed
Vivianne OFlynn is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is also a sub-item: the place for the casino.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Antagonistic Protagonist is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s trivial, but since it’s technically ‘city space’ beyond the original project, to make it very clear, I also feel that we should have a formal agreement
Lance LeFey: The space past the bridge?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The reasoning for the place on the far side of the bridge: 1) it’s outside the city walls 2) it’s near the telehub
Sudane Erato: The important thing is the foundation, since it must carry to the new Neualt
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* yes, that one
Sudane Erato: I think the locatation now is not so important
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I mean is, the Guild should figure out how it looks…
Sudane Erato: Because in 2 months it will be moved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we should say WHERE it should be!
Roberta Dalek: yes – so any proposal should be until the date of move
Sudane Erato: shrug
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, but the casino will be built BEFORE we move!
Sudane Erato: yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why i think we should agree upon the location.
Lance LeFey: I think the proposed location is fine.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also think it’s fine.
Roberta Dalek: I agree
Sudane Erato: Agreed
Roberta Dalek: lets take a formal vote on it
Lance LeFey: Aye here.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye.
Sudane Erato: Aye
Roberta Dalek: eye here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Roberta Dalek: okay – 4 in favour – proposal passes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There goes #4 🙂 I don’t have anything else to bother you on that one…
Roberta Dalek: yay
Sudane Erato: Hi!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Talen Morgan: greetingsd all
Roberta Dalek: welcome talen
Lance LeFey: Hey Talen
Lance LeFey: We just finished Bill four.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah Talen, welcome, and join us, please!
Roberta Dalek: we have just approved the casino bill
Talen Morgan: cool
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Roberta Dalek: what was agreed will be in the minutes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Lance LeFey: The formal party.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The frozen Party!
Roberta Dalek: the penguin is the bill provider
Sudane Erato: He’s got the bills
Roberta Dalek: I am chairing
Talen Morgan: nice
Roberta Dalek: on to bill 5
Talen Morgan: whoa
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Touch it to get them, talen, and we’ll go to #5
Talen Morgan: theres already been 4 bills passed
Talen Morgan: may I get a recap
Lance LeFey: Well, the first one was just for reference
Lance LeFey: It was the elimination of the event tax
Roberta Dalek: bill 2 was amended to say after the move
Roberta Dalek: bill 3 we are doing a survey of rentable properties *this week*
Roberta Dalek: bill 3- we approved in principal renting residential properties
Roberta Dalek: bill 4 – we approved the casino in porincipal, and the location
Roberta Dalek: bill 4 – we nominated sudane to deal with the details on behalf of the ra
Roberta Dalek: bill 4 -style of building should be left to the guild to deal with any disputes
Talen Morgan: what details
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, the details on the finantial and operational plan…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest is up to the Guild, really 🙂
Lance LeFey: Right, we decided that Catfart will deal with the current issues with the casino.
Talen Morgan: what issues?
Roberta Dalek: if he doesn’t for any reason then we will have to
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since he’s the Assistant Guildemeister.
Roberta Dalek: we understand that Ulkrika has started building without approval
Talen Morgan: ahhh
Talen Morgan: i thought she was building a museum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is another thing, Talen…
Sudane Erato: At the location of the casino, she has started a building
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Talen Morgan: gotcha
Sudane Erato: and I am concerned that it may inteference with your effort to start one
Sudane Erato: you had offered to start this weekend
Talen Morgan: yes I could start today and I have off tomorrow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s excellent 🙂
Sudane Erato: that would be great!
Sudane Erato: but we must deal with the walls already there
Talen Morgan: but what style of building will it be…old…modern?/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right. Well, Talen is a group officer, so that shouldn’t be much of a problem.
Talen Morgan: we are officers we can remove them if need be lol
Roberta Dalek: accessible is the most important issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Talen… that’s something for the Guild to decide, really, not the RA
Lance LeFey: I just had an idea…
Talen Morgan: but the guild didnt approve her build to be placed their either
Lance LeFey: You know how Billy Madison has a private sim (more than one?) and is deploying, so he can’t pay the tier (or doesn’t want to)?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Talen Morgan: i already talked to him…waiting for him to get back to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… we discussed this, and I proposed that ‘allowing a casino to be built’, since it’s not in the original plan, is a question for the RA. And we said, yes, let’s have a casino.
Lance LeFey: We could potentially get one from him, if we could come up with the tier.
Talen Morgan: we could possibly get it for 650
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, as to the style, and the particulars…
Sudane Erato: guys, separate issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. Ok, enough recapping, hehe
Roberta Dalek: okay – lets finish off the casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s move to #5
Roberta Dalek: and then take this as a separate issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: no – if lance can build this weekend then we do need to decide
Roberta Dalek: not lance – talen
Lance LeFey: Er, yeah 🙂
Lance LeFey: You do NOT want me to build.
Talen Morgan: lol
Sudane Erato: but we did decide, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is there to decide, Roberta? The casino is approved. It’s now up to the Guild to do what they feel it’s best
Roberta Dalek: we didn’t decide what to do with Ulrika’s build
Sudane Erato: ASAP!
Roberta Dalek: we passed it onto the guild ie catfart
Lance LeFey: Right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed.
Sudane Erato: perhaps Talen and Ulrika can discuss it
Lance LeFey: We should set him a deadline to resolve this
Roberta Dalek: is this okay – or do we need to decide?
Object: Your object ‘Object’ has been returned to you from parcel ‘Schloss Neualtenburg’ at Anzere 227, 189.
Talen Morgan: then we are agreed that nothing will happen until the guild responds correct
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Roberta… we have decided that Catfart should deal with that.
Roberta Dalek: okay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Argh.
Talen Morgan: we cant decide guild matters
Roberta Dalek: okay – fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, we can’t.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, the Guild, if I remind you, is NOT democratic 🙂
Sudane Erato: May we issue a formal and urgent request for the guild to decide this by tomorrow!
Talen Morgan: i can start building on my property and drop it when we are ready though
Roberta Dalek: Talen – go for it
Sudane Erato: That would be good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Talen. that’s an EXCELLENT suggestion 🙂
Talen Morgan: just need to know what size we think is appropriate and style
Sudane Erato: Size to fit.. there is not much space
Roberta Dalek: which is for the guild/
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This really just needs one very simple thing from catfart – just saying ‘Talen is going to do the work for us’
Roberta Dalek: the size we know from the location
Sudane Erato: to the right of the bridge
Sudane Erato: as you go out
Talen Morgan: lets look at the location after the meeting and I’ll figure it out
Roberta Dalek: okay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure!
Sudane Erato: good
Roberta Dalek: I propose that we take the Billy Madison thig now as emergency business
Gwyneth Llewelyn: #5…?
Roberta Dalek: before bill 5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah drats
Talen Morgan: no bills first
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let me check how much tier he has.
Roberta Dalek: as we have 20 mins
Talen Morgan: then new business
Sudane Erato: 🙂 the democratic process
Talen Morgan: billy isnt doing anything with the sim until he talks to me anyway
Sudane Erato: good, teell him we are a discussion party to the talks
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok. So, we could at least agree that we are interested in talking with billy
Lance LeFey: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, Sudane, my words exactly, hehe
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: #5…?!?
Roberta Dalek: okay – I propose that we authorise Talen to talk to Billy
Sudane Erato: yes!
Roberta Dalek: on behalf ot eh ra
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes on talen talking to Billy in the RA’s name.
Roberta Dalek: aye
Talen Morgan: works for me
Sudane Erato: yes
Lance LeFey: AYe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: unanimous again 🙂
Roberta Dalek: 4 in favour – proposal passed
Lance LeFey: Sorry I was silent there for a second, had to take a phone call
Roberta Dalek: 5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, 5 in favour, Roberta…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Roberta Dalek: okay!
Roberta Dalek: back to bill 5
Lance LeFey: Seriously, is there anything we’re not in agreement on here?
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… #5, about the ‘recruiting events’
Talen Morgan: the penguin said Nay I think
Sudane Erato: 🙂 no it didn’t
Penguin: Nay!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I disagree totally on that bill, on the grounds that all events are guild stuff, and not RA stuff.
Talen Morgan: see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Talen Morgan: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Lance LeFey: 🙂
Lance LeFey: Right, so, bill 5.
Roberta Dalek: I agree – events are a matter for the guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let me repeat my voting statement on #5… Events are the guild’s responsability, not the RA’s.
Sudane Erato: But Gwyn, we must cause recruitung to happen
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s something entirely different, Sudane
Sudane Erato: And…
Sudane Erato: how…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, yes, we should encourage the Guild to set up ‘recruiting events’
Lance LeFey: Right. We need to find an alternate way to encourage membership.. but the RA should not hold events
Sudane Erato: Let me understand..
Sudane Erato: The Guild are the crafts?
Lance LeFey: I think we should comission the guild for an ad campaign.. but that’s for another bill
Talen Morgan: we shouldnt be discussing events unless we are talking taxes or problems with events
Lance LeFey: The guild are crafts, culture, etc.
Sudane Erato: the craetors of sellable things?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (of course, since I’m a Guild member myself, and will probably share with Catfart the responsability of event coordination, I’ll probably accept bill #5 internally in the Guild 🙂 🙂 🙂
Lance LeFey: I’m a guildy too.
Sudane Erato: sigh**
Talen Morgan: i’m a guild member also and you have my support
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let me try to explain my reasoning…
Roberta Dalek: please do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Crafts (including events) are the responsability of the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s crystal clear.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA, of course, may always tell the Guild whatever we please
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But not organize stuff by ourselves!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, my feeling is, this bill has been presented to the wrong place, and I vote against it 🙂
Sudane Erato: I propose that this not be considered an event…
Talen Morgan: we cant exactly tell the guild whatever we please…they have veto right on any bill we make concerning them
Lance LeFey: Maybe we should ammend it to say that we should comission the guild for the weekly event?
Sudane Erato: That it be considered promotion..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, of course, I also strongly feel that Ulrika’s idea is EXCELLENT, and that we should seriously encourage the Guild to use Ulrika’s ideas with the amendments by Sudane
Roberta Dalek: promotional events are events
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s somethin completely different!
Sudane Erato: And that the RA commision promotion
Talen Morgan: we could however as the RA make a bill allotting moneys to the guild for events
Lance LeFey: Right
Sudane Erato: Neualt must promote itself
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Another good idea, talen… since we do the budget and the Guild approves it.
Sudane Erato: And therefore, this is one way
Lance LeFey: I have an idea for another ammendment to the bill.
Lance LeFey: The RA should comission the guild for an advertising campaign for Neualtenburg
Sudane Erato: think: Marketing
Lance LeFey: That encompasses more than events
Talen Morgan: thats not our purpose
Talen Morgan: we can allocate moneys but it is up to the guild to do as they see fit
Roberta Dalek: ok – we have 10 mins to go
Sudane Erato: I don’t understand why it is not our purpose
Lance LeFey: I thought the constitution said the RA had the power to comission the guild?
Sudane Erato: our purpose is the survival of Neualtenburg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm yes.
Lance LeFey: But they have veto power through popular vote
Talen Morgan: our purpose is law…the guilds purpose is creation and promotion
Roberta Dalek: Lets vote on the bill as currently stands – and then take any amendments if the bill fallls
Lance LeFey: Nay
Lance LeFey: Votes..?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t object to comissioning a campaign for the promotion of Neualtenburg,.
Roberta Dalek: nay
Sudane Erato: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But nay on the bill #5!
Lance LeFey: We’re voting on the bill as it stands
Lance LeFey: Talen?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Lance LeFey: Talen, you there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we lost Talen, hehe
Roberta Dalek: okay
Roberta Dalek: well we have 3 against and 1 in favour so bill 5 falls
Roberta Dalek: any amendents?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, at least two…
Lance LeFey: I think the general consensus, save talen, was that we comission the guild for the events
Lance LeFey: and alott funding to it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Change the bill to a ‘comission’ for the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Allocate a budget
Lance LeFey: Funding which we don’t really have..
Sudane Erato: right, we do not
Sudane Erato: without a budget
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’ll gladly donate L$1000 which is all I have now, lol
Lance LeFey: I have 500L on me 🙂
Roberta Dalek: adhoc allocation of money is silly
Sudane Erato: I have $, too, but there must be a budget before you donate $ to it!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Roberta *blushes*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so no budget allocation without a budget.
Roberta Dalek: need a budget – bring this back to the next meeting
Sudane Erato: yes!
Sudane Erato: so let me understand
Sudane Erato: the Guild is commissioned to do this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can only suggest the Guild that we comission them a ‘free’ event for the promotion of Neualtenburg, using ulrika’s suggestions + sudane’s amendments.
Roberta Dalek: constutionally all events are the responibility of the guild
Sudane Erato: and we will allocate funds, if they tell us how much
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed Roberta.
Lance LeFey: Hmm, maybe it could be classified as educational?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb talen 🙂
Talen Morgan: grrr dissconnect
Lance LeFey: Because they’ll be informing people about Neualtenburg.
Roberta Dalek: the lindens won’t fund it – even if we can make a case for educational
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I doubt the Lindens would get it, but there is no harm to ask Haney…
Talen Morgan: what is the proposed event
Roberta Dalek: they have really restrcitive guidelines – as posted int eh forums
Sudane Erato: what are the costs?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Costs? Labour only, and writing a few notes about Neualtenburg
Lance LeFey: Yes, Roberta, but we can try- it could be considered educational.
Roberta Dalek: the proposed event, and detaiuls must be for the guild
Lance LeFey: We’re still on the recruitment events, Talen
Roberta Dalek: let someone put together a proposal with budget and we’ll discuss it then
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But roberta… we have NO budget yet!
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, we have a few events running regularly in Neualtenburg… Catfart should be around every minute
Roberta Dalek: okay – then we are getting way ahead of ourselves
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *any minute
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can suggest the Guild to set up these events…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And organize them
Lance LeFey: Three minutes left in the meeting.
Roberta Dalek: yep
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #5 never mentioned L$ anyway!
Lance LeFey: Right
Sudane Erato: i didn’t see any costs
Roberta Dalek: okay – final vote of the meeting – should we suggest to the guild that they do these events?
Lance LeFey: Aye
Roberta Dalek: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I say, let’s amend bill #5 as an approved suggestion for the Guild to run weekly promotional events…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Sudane Erato: yes, if that is the only way
Roberta Dalek: talen?
Talen Morgan: nay,,,its the responsiblity of all citizens not just the guild
Roberta Dalek: okay – well 4 in favour, one againstr
Sudane Erato: it will not happen unless we commission it
Roberta Dalek: amendment passes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed.
Sudane Erato: but I stay with my aye
Roberta Dalek: we can’t comission it without knowing what we are commissioning
Talen Morgan: it wont happen if we commision it and our job is law not the commisioning of projects
Roberta Dalek: someone work that out and we’ll do it next meeting
Lance LeFey: Talen, yes it is
Talen Morgan: technically we have overstepped our bounds
Roberta Dalek: 1 min to go
Sudane Erato: I’ll work on something
Lance LeFey: We comission projects for the guild. It’s in the constitution
Sudane Erato: try and get Cat involved
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re comissioning the Guild to run weekly promotional events, engaging citizens for that purpose.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Roberta Dalek: people sort this out and bring this back
Sudane Erato: yes
Roberta Dalek: time is up
Roberta Dalek: we’ve had a really productive meeting today
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well. We did the best we could, lol
Sudane Erato: #6 next week
Roberta Dalek: passed loads of business
Lance LeFey: Good thing, because I’m getting hungry 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Lance 🙂
Roberta Dalek: someone post the chat log to the forum
Sudane Erato: I will
Roberta Dalek: ty sudane
Talen Morgan: someone show me where the casino is proposed to go so I have an idea on size
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Sudane!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, let’s visit the casino!
Sudane Erato: Talen, I’ll go and look
Roberta Dalek: so great stuff – and more next week
Roberta Dalek: thanks everyone for attending
Sudane Erato: and Roberta, lets set a time
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks for chairing it, Roberta 🙂
Lance LeFey: Right, when on what day?
Roberta Dalek: no problem
Lance LeFey: I can work around my schedule for most of this week- I just remembered I’m off this week 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say same place and same time… it was worked out quite well this day!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lucky you, lance 🙂
Lance LeFey: But wednesday and tomorrow could be hard for me
Talen Morgan: whered ya get the penguin…I need one lol
Roberta Dalek: we mean for the survey
Lance LeFey: Right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, lol, sorry!
Roberta Dalek: yeah next meeting same time/place next weekRA Meeting: March 06, 2005
Roberta Dalek: and doesn’t need to be in the same name
Roberta Dalek: hi gywn
Sudane Erato: hi!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi : )
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so how are you both? :0
Penguin for 2005-3-6 gave you Neualt Kelly Linden Post.
Sudane Erato: OK here
Penguin for 2005-3-6 gave you Neualt Money Management.
Penguin for 2005-3-6 gave you Neualt New Home.
Sudane Erato: how is RL work?
Roberta Dalek: I’m fine – it’s cold and miserable here – and my heating still doesn’t work : (
Roberta Dalek: but apart from that fine : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Roberta…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: btw, wondeful dress : )
Sudane Erato: we should all move to Lisbon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: RL work is ‘under control’
Roberta Dalek: ty – not by me…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol right, here the sun shines and we have 15 degrees Celsius :0
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sudane Erato: : )
Roberta Dalek: woo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, let me shortly read all the notes in our friendly penguin…
Sudane Erato: They’re long : (
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes : )
Roberta Dalek: but ther is only 3
Sudane Erato: but the bills have been on the forum
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, and one is not ‘a bill’ but more some ideas for the private sim…
Sudane Erato: i just got that feedback minutes ago
Sudane Erato: answer to a question I posted
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm, ok, sounds interesting : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Any one of you has previewed 1.6 so far?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too : )
Sudane Erato: I’ve just read the release notes, and the new forum thread about reactions
Roberta Dalek: international keyboard support, unicode, streaming video
Roberta Dalek: the first two are useful for the projekt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all those work wonderfully!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND a searchable inventory, lol
Sudane Erato: and the private island business about group deeding
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. That’s useful for Neualtenburg…
Sudane Erato: ah, i think we don’t know yet
Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew… ‘Ulrika Zugzwang be coerced’…lol
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: this baby business : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww the poor future mother…
Sudane Erato: she hasn’t been around for days
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I still think we should simply copy & paste everything.
Sudane Erato: but will the new land be an EXACT copy?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s the easiest way to make a swift move!
Roberta Dalek: do we want an exact copy?
Sudane Erato: if not, then adjustments will need to be made
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh. Perhaps not… but I still think if will help us to move quickly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can always change later…
Sudane Erato: well, I can certainly agree with that, if it works
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Apparently, yes. However, I now know why I couldn’t contact Haney, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know, he left LL…
Sudane Erato: oh!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I haven’t read who’s replacing him.
Sudane Erato: bad time, with the new version coming
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, hmm
Sudane Erato: any idea when the new version will hit?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm they’ll be very, very careful this time
Sudane Erato: 2 months?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, earlier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But at the very least, 2 weeks : )
Sudane Erato: good, in time for a move?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But people uncovered lots of bugs so far…
Sudane Erato: yes, they have
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Good point. Hmm, yes, I guess so
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, hmm, in the mean time, I’ve been reading the first bill.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, we have pending things from the last meeting…
Roberta Dalek: shall we start then? It doesn’t look like anyone else is coming
Sudane Erato: OK
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, let’s start
Roberta Dalek: was there a meeting last week?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My fault, really, I didn’t manage to send an email…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It seems that the in-world IMs are never enough.
Roberta Dalek: people don’t get group IMs if they are offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I expect Talen to come over later… he never manages to be awake so early, lol
Sudane Erato: that’s odd, cause many folks are very lax with emails
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah is that so, Roberta?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That makes sense : (
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also have a folder with the calling cards of all members…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… Hmm
Sudane Erato: : ) now called friends : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes : )
Roberta Dalek: ok – lets start
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, let’s see what we have pending from the last meeting?
Sudane Erato: old business ?
Roberta Dalek: Gywn – what business do we have left over from last wek?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we have Roberta chair again? I vote on that, she’s so good at keeping order, lol
Sudane Erato: she was VERY good!
Roberta Dalek: ok – i’ll be the ordermeisterin
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol : )
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, we have the renting business…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have a report from the team who did the evaluation : (
Sudane Erato: sorry, didn’t bring it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps you could talk a bit about your conclusions… (just for the record)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh let me see…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Sudane… you send me that as a notecard, or as an email?
Sudane Erato: ?
Roberta Dalek: its on the forums
Sudane Erato: i know I posted it
Roberta Dalek: shall I copy and paste
Sudane Erato: but it was an email, cause it had a jpg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: forum, ok
Sudane Erato: kind of needs the jpg to make sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, well
Sudane Erato: altho there were a number of subsatntial conclusions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, if I recall it correctly, we need to rebuild things a lot.
Roberta Dalek gave you nberg rentals.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes.
Sudane Erato: arrived at mostly by Roberta’s judgement
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah ty !
Norm Drago is offline
Sudane Erato: which make very good sense to me
SL Exchange Magic Box white: SL Exchange – Delivered item Magic Ring 1.9c.
Sudane Erato: graet ! ty
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, only 8 places ‘fit’ for rental – that’s too low.
Sudane Erato: now talen has volunteered to fix things
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although the others only need ‘snow removal’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, excellent!
Sudane Erato: but he has relied on objects from Ulrika
Roberta Dalek: nothing seems to have happened – i had a look earlier
Sudane Erato: and she is MIA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, wait wait
Sudane Erato: yes, nothing has happened
Roberta Dalek gave you residential working.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is a ‘box’ inthe Marktplatz where you can get the textures
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: did I put it there????
Roberta Dalek: well she made the prefab houses – but she has a more advanced one she wants to sell
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and talen, as officer, can remove snow, etc
Sudane Erato: don’t think so
Roberta Dalek: so he is trying to get a copy/mod version off ulrika of the primitive one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww I see
Sudane Erato: but he found he couldn’t do something or other
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, Talen has Ulrika’s email
Sudane Erato: so he’s done nothing so far
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww, dang
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s really too bad!
Roberta Dalek: he can’t move them – but i think he should be able to delete them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’d be happy o ‘remove snow’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *to
Sudane Erato: not so easy
Roberta Dalek: removing snow is different
Roberta Dalek: thats terraforming
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this would mean an adequate amount of places to rent… not so easy?
Sudane Erato: the land has to be pushed down
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And can’t talen do that?
Roberta Dalek: he can as an officer i presume
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Roberta Dalek: the problem is that the hosues were just plonked down – some overlap, some are not accessible, the land was not prepared…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, since the land is group owned, the officers should be able to do terraforming
Roberta Dalek: the prefab is also poor quality tbh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, ok. So -not easy- but not really -impossible-
Roberta Dalek: and they are very small
Sudane Erato: right, it looks like the houses must be removed to smooth the land
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree on that, Roberta, but the point is, how much time will that take??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Weeks?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even assuming we could enlisten our overeager builder Eugene to help Talen…
Sudane Erato: : )
Roberta Dalek: I don’t know – but we wouldn’t really get any customers as they stand
Sudane Erato: Talen had said “very quickly”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. That’s something we could all agree on : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Roberta Dalek: the houses are 9×9.5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I love Talen, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you mean, they’re too small, Roberta?
Roberta Dalek: I’m not even sure they are functional
Roberta Dalek: often a bed can be 3 x 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn *thinks*
Roberta Dalek: but they are what we have at the moment
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, hmm… plan B…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If they’re too small for homes, are they big enough for shops?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What do you think?
Sudane Erato: another Roberta question
Roberta Dalek: they are small – but maybe for shops
Roberta Dalek: maybe with a 25 prim limit or something – the smallest type of shop
Sudane Erato: I will point out that Charlotte Gillespie has squatted rather happily in one
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I remember Ulrika telling that you couldn’t have more than 25 prims per building anyway…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, true, true
Roberta Dalek: nobody would rent a house with 25 prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: She has moved on, Sudane, and anyway, Charlotte is a character : )
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Roberta… : (
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This still would mean getting rid at least of the snow.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because just 8 shops, that’s really not enough!
Roberta Dalek: they have been designed for beauty not for function
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Sudane Erato: I suspect that if we get into this kind of fundamental problem about house rental…
Roberta Dalek: but when we move we will have more space!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Will that mean, completely redesign everything? oh my…
Sudane Erato: that we should prepare a whole new rent concept
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no other option besides agreeing with you, Sudane : (
Sudane Erato: the old idea was based on flawed concepts perhaps
Sudane Erato: so we need a new one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unfortunately true : (
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I think people NEVER really thought about renting stuff
Sudane Erato: oh yes?
Roberta Dalek: I’m not sure thought was given to making the city functional
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps it was
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but things were finished in a ‘quick and dirty’ way
Sudane Erato: it was meant as a tourist attraction
Sudane Erato: where looks were very important
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what do you suggest then? We should simply drop the whole renting concept?
Sudane Erato: can we suggest that shops around the main square go ahead
Sudane Erato: ?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘yes’ on dropping renting altogether, or ‘yes’ for shops only on the main square?
Roberta Dalek: yes for shops in the main square going ahead
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, i agree… let me recheck your notes and the map…
Sudane Erato: that would at least get things started
Sudane Erato: primary problems there are snow
Sudane Erato: and one floor missing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4 shops operationl right now
Roberta Dalek: and that talen’s priority should be fixing the shops
Sudane Erato: : ): ) and one shop with no door
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the rest is just a floor (easy) and snow (slightly more complicated)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: door is easy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Roberta Dalek: who is renting the shops?
Roberta Dalek: I presume no-one is actually paying…
Sudane Erato: I proposed that rent be imposed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No no, the shops are not being used
Sudane Erato: well, Ulrika is using one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, even Ulrika’s is mostly ‘decoration’
Sudane Erato: and a handbag dealer another
Roberta Dalek: two are – ulrika has one, and one of her friends has naother
Roberta Dalek: I have a rento cube – we need to work out how many prims we can allow and then set a market rent
Roberta Dalek: I can do that – with sudane?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 25 is a good start
Sudane Erato: good!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree!
Sudane Erato: I’m game
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… two things:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Get talen and the Guild overall to fix the shops
Roberta Dalek: do we require use of the vendor – if we do then we can’t really charge rent as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Sudane Erato: what are the issues there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean… we need to charge for taxes, lol
Roberta Dalek: the vendor takes taxes on sales
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Drats, we NEED to have a functional Guild!
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: These are all Guild issues.
Roberta Dalek: the vendor is something like 8 prims
Roberta Dalek: so we are looking at 3 vendors per shop
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm not much, really
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… since we aren’t using the rest of the prims for renting…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can raise the prim limit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the other hand
Sudane Erato: could you explain how the venders and possible rent interact?
Roberta Dalek: but it may not be possible to fit many vendors in the shops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the shops are too small to have, say 10 or 20 prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Roberta Dalek: as they are prety latge
Roberta Dalek: I couldn’t find a new vendor to play with
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I mean 10 to 20 VENDORS, not prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, the best solution so far is the Gigas SecondServer? system
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s free, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only question is how to arrange it in order to pay taxes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m really silly… uh, our vendor works
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You just need to get the scripts which interact with the web site
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, no need for other vendors
Roberta Dalek: they have a script that can be added for stock purposes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, no need for other vendors SCRIPTS.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you can change the scripts and make a one-prim version
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, eventually a 3 prim version
Roberta Dalek: I would really like a copy of the vendor to look at
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (for back and forward buttons)
Sudane Erato: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I, lol
Roberta Dalek: but talen or one of the scripters could modify
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I could even do a one-prim version which shows a dialog box for ‘next’, ‘prev’, etc
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or ask Lance to do one for us,.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: based on the current model
Roberta Dalek: but smaller, and less prim heavy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, anyway, technology aside…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The problem is not how many prims the vendor has
Sudane Erato: Can we charge rent AND sales tax?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But how we set the ‘rules’ for renting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that’s a good question, Sudane, and I have a suggestion to make
Roberta Dalek: I don’t think we can do both – or if we do we need to charge a very small rent
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d suggest the following…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We keep the sales tax
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And rent the shops for, say, L$100 a week (we can discuss the price further)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Taxes are ‘deducted’ from rent. Meaning…
Sudane Erato: whew!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you sell L$1000 per week in items, you won’t need to pay rent! (sales tax is currently 10% I think)
Sudane Erato: will one script handle this?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: HM. Good question.
Sudane Erato: there’s an interaction between rent amount and sales amount
Gwyneth Llewelyn: because the best you can see is if someone has paid MORE than L$ 100 in taxes one week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, actually, in my country, there is a similar idea for our RL taxes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You pay them in advance, three times per year : )
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: called estimated tax
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you can have more deductions than the amount you have paid, the State pays you back the difference : )
Sudane Erato: ah yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really ‘estimated tax’, that’s what you ALSO have…
Sudane Erato: and the State makes money on the float!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You bet!
Sudane Erato: very sly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They pay you back after, say, 2 years or so
Roberta Dalek: ok…
Sudane Erato: 2 years!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, in Neualtenburg, this would be somewhat similar…
Roberta Dalek: ordermeisterin calling to order
Gwyneth Llewelyn: you pay ‘advance tax’ every week
Sudane Erato: I have a proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok Roberta : )
Roberta Dalek: Sudane
Sudane Erato: that we engage in a trial period before the move
Sudane Erato: that occupancy arrangement be strictly limited until then
Sudane Erato: and that it be discovered what the actual traffic is
Sudane Erato: or, what venders can actually sell
Sudane Erato: this would be a “market” basis for charges
Roberta Dalek: ok agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: with, hopefully a bargain for the experimenters
Sudane Erato: but, clear transition to new deals after the move
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, on that ‘trial’ phase, they wouldn’t pay either taxes or renting?
Sudane Erato: no, i think they should pay taxes
Roberta Dalek: I think just taxes
Sudane Erato: its the lowest risk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. And renting for free
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I fully agree : )
Sudane Erato: because its based on volume
Roberta Dalek: yes
Roberta Dalek: and we don’t know what the traffic will be like
Sudane Erato: right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s say, 1 month free trial?
Sudane Erato: until the move
Roberta Dalek: we will also be able to see if the vendors work
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
Roberta Dalek: I agree sudane – and will help implement
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on that proposal!
Roberta Dalek: although I have have a conflict of interest as I wopuld like to rent one
Sudane Erato: regarding sales, I am totally ignorant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So do I, lol
Sudane Erato: LOL
Sudane Erato: i think that is great
Sudane Erato: we’ll have inside info
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. restriction on sales, they can sell anything, so long as it’s PG, right?
Sudane Erato: AND traffic already
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: yes, unfortunately
Sudane Erato: i think the PG is a big burden for us
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol, not really ‘unfortunately’ : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah well
Sudane Erato: do we need something written?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what is the next step? Asking for a copy of the script?
Roberta Dalek: okay so the steps – 1. talen and the guild need to make the places rentable
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should have something written, yes…
Roberta Dalek: 2. we need as a minimum copies of the vendors
Roberta Dalek: but really the scripts as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Sudane Erato: I volunteer to read this transcript and make a written resolution
Roberta Dalek: currently we have neither
Sudane Erato: as you can see, I spew those out rather readily
Roberta Dalek:
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sudane Erato: while we wait for the renovations, can these venders be ready?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, this work can be in parallel
Sudane Erato: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I presume that we will give the current vendor away…
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: I have been talking a good deal with Catfart..
Roberta Dalek: great
Sudane Erato: I’ll try to get him moving re the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And a ‘special’ version with just one prim, that anyone can incorporate into a new vendor. That should be easy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sounds great, Sudane!
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what was our pending unfinished business from the last meeting…?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, the Casino…
Roberta Dalek: casino looks great
Sudane Erato: Can we pass this shop thing pending an acceptable written version?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
Roberta Dalek: we need to get moving
Sudane Erato: aye
Sudane Erato: casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the Casino is ok., Now we need the game machines.
Roberta Dalek: shop motion passed
Roberta Dalek: and the casino alt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I talked to Eggy, he’s unwilling to ‘give’ us his machines 😛
Sudane Erato: I have proposed in the money bill mechanisms to start the casino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Sudane Erato: Talen has agreed to be the first casino alt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Sudane Erato: and to contribute machines
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Sudane Erato: and we can buy more machines as needed
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No!
Roberta Dalek: and talen knows which machines are worth having
Sudane Erato: there should be enough $$ to fund the startup
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t control the treasury : (
Sudane Erato: Catfart and I have consulted closely about this money bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I want to hear that.
Sudane Erato: i think if passed it is constitutional
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, lol
Sudane Erato: since I don’t understand that aspect anyway
Kai Nyak is offline
Ky Callahan is online
Sudane Erato: but I do understand the bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, the problem is, with ulrika ‘off’, we haven’t a working Scientific Council
Gwyneth Llewelyn: who should ratify our decisions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, I have an idea, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s pretty easy….
Sudane Erato: when she returns, she can throw it out, if she wants
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s pass a bill that the SC needs to disapprove (veto) in a week after the resolution has been voted upon.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Roberta Dalek: so we don’t get stagnation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: have you been able to look at the details?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: actually, the same applies to the Guild veto as well.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: erm, and no, Sudane, I just remember some details from our conversations in-world 😛
Sudane Erato: well, I propose a finance committee
Sudane Erato: 3 RA members
Sudane Erato: guildmesiter
Sudane Erato: and another Guild member
Sudane Erato: 5 altogether
Sudane Erato: 3 of the members would start alts
Sudane Erato: for the three basic $$ functions I think we need to start
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, all that I remember
Sudane Erato: and I proposed the names of all but the 2nd Guyild member
Sudane Erato: all have agreed to serve
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Sudane Erato: I also advised limited out and out gifts
Sudane Erato: thats the quick of it
Sudane Erato: that clear reporting is of the essence
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, certainly
Sudane Erato: I did not take into account a suggestion that Roberta just made
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one question… will all 5 members have access to any of the three alts?
Sudane Erato: which is that the CC on an alt can be changed to another RL person
Sudane Erato: yes all 5 have all PWs
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that’s not a problem, I mean, the CC…
Sudane Erato: thats the core responsibility
Roberta Dalek: so if a person leaves we have continuity
Sudane Erato: well , i feel that all RA members should be reappointed after each election
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh, I usually set up lots of people with a randomly generated CC number (a service available in my country, lol) and then they can change that back to their own CC number when they want…
Sudane Erato: you’ll have to explain that to me..
Sudane Erato: never heard of that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the point is, you can easily change the CC number later…
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah lol, well, Internet shopping never caught up in Portugal because people were too afraid of their CC numbers getting ‘caught’
Roberta Dalek: but it would get charged wouldn’t it?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So they invented a system where the banking authority around here can, via a web site they own, generate random CC numbers, accepted in the whole Visa network. You set up a money limit yourself, say, just 10 US$, which is enough for starting an account
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and they have just 1 usage
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That way, there is no way you can do frauds with CC numbers : )
Roberta Dalek: great idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, it’s awesome, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It also means that theoretically anyone could create an infinite number of alt accounts, lol
Sudane Erato: well, I suggest, based on this …
Sudane Erato: that the bill be changed slightly regarding the transfer of alts
Sudane Erato: that the transfer happen only as a CC change
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We only need basic accounts, so it’s no problem for me to create three new ones…
Sudane Erato: rather than as a new alt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, precisely
Sudane Erato: but, I don’t understand fully
Sudane Erato: each of those random craeted numbers has a RL person behind it, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s an ‘investment’ of just 24 Euros, I think I can afford that easily : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well. Yes, for the purposes of fraud detection – if Visa wants to investigate, the banking authority will be able to tell the name of the person behind the virtual CC numbers easily.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, in terms of LL, they’re different CC numbers!
Sudane Erato: Yes, but also in terms of SL..
Sudane Erato: Someone MUST assume responsiblity for the CC alt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure.
Sudane Erato: there must be a RL person taking $$ responsibility
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would rather prefer that the three people contributing an alt would be someone taking the responsability using their RL persona
Sudane Erato: persona is not important, just the responsibility
Sudane Erato: which is why the concern about transfer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But i just mentioned that because you can CHANGE the CC number every time the alt ‘switches hands’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No problem about ‘transferring’… the new RA member who ‘inherits’ the alt just goes into the backoffice at secondlife.com/accounts and changes the CC details to reflect their own
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, that’s very easily done!
Sudane Erato: yes, thats what I thought
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since the card numbers there aren’t displayed fully, there is also no risk in ‘capturing’ credit card numbers : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it’s pretty safe, I think
Sudane Erato: any other problems with the bill?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, not in general, Sudane.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps the issue is: how much ‘starting money’ should be in the accounts?
Sudane Erato: that we can work out.
Sudane Erato: the amount needed for the casino account has been pretty well defined by Talen
Roberta Dalek: in principal this is all fine
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say, at the very least, L$ 20,000 plus L$ 10,000 for buying the machines.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes? let’s hear talen’s proposal!
Sudane Erato: the amount needed for the general account is determined by the new sim purchase
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I thought we were just discussing the Casino!
Sudane Erato: Talen says the same, altho less for the machines
Sudane Erato: good point.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok, let’s be clear on that…
Sudane Erato: are we discussing the casino…?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just the Casino, or also for the New Neualtenburg?
Sudane Erato: or the money bill?
Roberta Dalek: we are discussing the bill aren’t we?
Roberta Dalek: at least I thought we were
Sudane Erato: the money bill wasn’t intended to propose the amounts needed for each account
Sudane Erato: just the structure of finances
Roberta Dalek: Do we have agreement on the money bill?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, just re-checkec the post in the forums…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I do agree
Roberta Dalek: I agree
Sudane Erato: well, subject to change in the language of the transfer, I agree
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, subject to that slight change.
Roberta Dalek: great – passed!
Sudane Erato: I’ll get together with Cat soon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay, we have a Finance Committee!
Roberta Dalek: does the casino need any more from us or can it just go now?
Sudane Erato: he will have the rental account : his alt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Question: should we transfer part of the funds from the Uma Bauhaus alt to the Casino?
Sudane Erato: no…
Roberta Dalek: do we have any funds in uma?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or start from scratch?
Sudane Erato: I think they should go to the general account…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we should have a few thousand L$….
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: for good practice
Roberta Dalek: agreed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So, the question remains… will the 5 Finance Committee members agree upon a figure to start the Casino? (which is the urgent discussion right now)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And discussion point #2, new sim, but let’s finish the Casino for now…
Sudane Erato: OK
Roberta Dalek: well the finance committee isn’t all here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm… brb, just 1 min
Sudane Erato: we can suggest 30K for the casino
Sudane Erato: right,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: back!
Sudane Erato: : )
Roberta Dalek: wb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what is your feeling on that, Sudane, will they ‘accept’ to finance the treasury in equal parts?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you expect some further contributions?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should the RA ask for those contributions?
Sudane Erato: The accounts will not be funded equally, but by need
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh.
Sudane Erato: yes, I think we should ask for contributions
Sudane Erato: because more smaller ones, rather than a few big ones
Sudane Erato: are better
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, is there any expected ‘return’, you know, like when the State issues bonds or so?
Sudane Erato: but the finance committee can ultimately appeal if mor e cash is nneded
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Appeal… to whom?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: To the citizens?
Sudane Erato: YES, that must be discussed…
Sudane Erato: but not necessarily now
Sudane Erato: yes, to the citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… hmm… I have an idea, to be discussed with catfart, who is an awesome programmer…
Sudane Erato: we will need multiple funding sources.. but not everyone is needed, of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: basically, it’s a special vendor which issues ‘bonds’, say, for L$1000 apiece
Sudane Erato: but all the contributions must be loans
Sudane Erato: bonds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The money goes straight into one of the three alt accounts
Sudane Erato: good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The bonds are ‘unique’ objects, but you can transfer them.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is rather easy to do!
Sudane Erato: is the source recorded?
Sudane Erato: the owner?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, if you wish, it could record that…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pretty easy to do!
Sudane Erato: in this case, we must record it somehow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, Jacqueline will drool over that idea
Sudane Erato: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, you know, she loves that kind of stuff…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: She’s always thinking of ways to replicate RL stuff inside SL.
Sudane Erato: I know little about what we can do with money accounting in SL
Sudane Erato: except that it is primitive in the extreme
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it makes some sense… because that way, people will be able to know exactly how you have participated in funding Neualtenburg
Sudane Erato: so that record keeping is of the highest priority
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and since bonds are transferrable, they have market value
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah : )
Sudane Erato: the funds are loans, and must be repaid
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that opens up very interesting ideas
Gwyneth Llewelyn: YES.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the idea!
Roberta Dalek: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I definitely propose that all ‘loans’ to Neualtenburg are doing by issuing bonds through a vendor. Bonds are scripted to know who are the current owners
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can set it up at the Marktplatz
Sudane Erato: how fast?
Sudane Erato: I’d like to get Talen working that casino fast
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if Catfart has some time, this won’t take longer than one hour of a very competent programmer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, again, this is basic stuff, but I also agree that the money can come in first, and we can send the bonds later…
Sudane Erato: OK great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and set up the ‘bond vendor’ just after the Casino is completed
Sudane Erato: we can assign them as bonds manually
Sudane Erato: good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, at the beginning!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I imagine we’ll be paying interest on those bonds in the future, heh heh
Sudane Erato: that we must discuss
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not today.
Sudane Erato: even 0 interest bonds are valid
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh! Of course, I meant that for starters!
Sudane Erato: but, less valid
Sudane Erato: so, we are agreed
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes, I agree fully, lol
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I love it!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: : )
Sudane Erato: 30 minutes
Roberta Dalek: yep
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anything else pending…?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we move to the new bills?
Roberta Dalek: the new home bill?
Sudane Erato: regarding the new neualt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
Sudane Erato: the primary issue is the ownership issue
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, since ‘layout’ can be defined later.
Sudane Erato: my money plan handles that
Sudane Erato: but it is aa kludge
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree.
Sudane Erato: very ackward
Roberta Dalek: well the owner is the alt
Roberta Dalek: so it shouldn’t change
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agreed.
Sudane Erato: so that the RL person simply rotates
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, well, that’s just a slight change in the wording…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes!
Sudane Erato: behind the alt
Sudane Erato: We must name the ALT!
Sudane Erato: The owner!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, lol
Sudane Erato: God
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the surname is never fixed…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: God, hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wilhelm IV
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Sudane Erato: unto whom all things …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kaiser?
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘God’ sounds a bit, uh, you know…
Roberta Dalek: yeah
Sudane Erato: remember, we may want to broaden the German theme
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. Right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Master?
Roberta Dalek: well it depends which sirnames are available
Gwyneth Llewelyn: FinanceMaster?
Sudane Erato: no, i pass on God : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Treasurer?
Roberta Dalek: is Leader still available, for example
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Leader is not bad…
Sudane Erato: it sounds like a cult : (
Roberta Dalek: I think we can trust whoever sets up the alts to be sensible
Sudane Erato: ok
Sudane Erato: AND WE CAN ALWAYS SWITCH ALTS, if needed
Roberta Dalek: no religeous or national/monarchy refs
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I agree, Roberta…
Sudane Erato: is that bill approvable?
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The leader surname is currently available
Roberta Dalek: I approve
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah well. I wonder about item #5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning, hmm, how long will it take for us to get L$ 200,000 or so…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because we have the ‘time limit’
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, thats the core question of Neualt
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
Sudane Erato: we will need to buy before we have the funds from revenues
Roberta Dalek: yes
Sudane Erato: there will need to be more bonds
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s go on a ‘double or nothing’ risk-taking gamble… yes, I agree with the bill, just changing slightly the wording to allow for easy rotation of the alts
Sudane Erato: and therefore, some will clearly take a risk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed they will
Sudane Erato: the alt rotation is defined in the money bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s why I agree
Sudane Erato: there is a necessary linkage
Sudane Erato: oh, i see
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was just meant to clarify the issue in the records, lol
Sudane Erato: good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, it’s an aye from me as well.
Sudane Erato: aye
Roberta Dalek: aye
Roberta Dalek: passed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, I disagree with the ‘coercing’ part
Sudane Erato: : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s just an itty bit detail.
Sudane Erato: we can remove it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But ulrika may really be unable to propose a design…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, at least replace the word with ‘kindly ask’
Sudane Erato: I would guess she would very much like to be included
Sudane Erato: which is why the forceful languauge
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and make the change to New Neualtenburg without the need of a plan, since at the very least, we can do a copy&paste of Anzere
Sudane Erato: OK, i defer on that
Sudane Erato: since I know less about how that will be done
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, yes, she WANTS to be a part of it, and I really am in favour of keeping her name there… just not make it all depend on her plan
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: so we will revise the wording of that bill too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, perhaps just renaming that from ‘coerce’ to ‘ask’
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or ‘the RA will appoint…’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: also means if Ulrika can’t do it, she can delegate to someone else
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or if she doesnt even do that, we’ll do that instead, but ulrika will be noticed.
Sudane Erato: good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning… if she really, really can’t, she’ll have a ‘last word’ on everything, if we need to give the task to somebody else.
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, wonderful!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow, that WAS productive, we still have 15 minutes left
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we, for the record, gladly embrace Catfart as Acting Guildmeister, and give a loud hooray? : ) lol
Roberta Dalek: ok
Sudane Erato: Agreed!
Roberta Dalek: and then shall we finish early?
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, we need to do the same for the Scientific Council…
Sudane Erato: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, have an Acting Professor for that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or Dean
Sudane Erato: who is the council now?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since Ulrika has that position, and we have a non-working council
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think both you and I are on the Council, Sudane…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Kathy yamamoto if I remember correctly!
Sudane Erato: I’m not aware of that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, this means asking Kathy…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Didn’t you apply?
Sudane Erato: arent RA and Council membership exclusive?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well wait
Sudane Erato: I did, but…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ‘exclusive’ as in ‘not being able to vote on both simultaneously’
Sudane Erato: things took a different course : )
Sudane Erato: no..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, same here, lol
Sudane Erato: not being members of both
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, so the SC is just Ulrika, Kathy and myself?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: so, you are the question : )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh well, either I’m here in the RA, or in the SC
Sudane Erato: : )
Sudane Erato: anyway, we should adjourn
Roberta Dalek: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the best I can do is to do a post on the forums about the Acting Leadership of the SC, and that’s all.
Roberta Dalek: thank you all for coming
Sudane Erato: yw
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks a lot everybodyRA Meeting: April 24, 2005
Sudane Erato: you got my email…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes!
Sudane Erato: we need to know which steps to take, and the implications
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It might be worthwhile to start a thread in the forums.
Sudane Erato: Eloise suggested some residents who might be able to help
Ulrika Zugzwang: Something that states what we’re trying to do and asks private sim owners for advice.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: people who own private islands who have formed groups
Sudane Erato: Faircahng?
Sudane Erato: Chang
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes.
Sudane Erato: Blaze Spinnaker?
Sudane Erato: Even, possibly developing some intelligence on Anshe’s islands
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes. Blaze!
Ulrika Zugzwang: He’d be perfect.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Want me to IM him?
Sudane Erato: sure
Ulrika Zugzwang: We know each other very well from the forums.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll do that now, while we talk.
Sudane Erato: but let me know if you want him here
Sudane Erato: cause Rudeen has to let him in
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: also, Flipper ?
Sudane Erato: he bought an island and gave it to a group?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. FlipperPA Peregrine.
Ulrika Zugzwang: He owns SLBoutique.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We have a group discount there.
Sudane Erato: I don’t know any of these people
Ulrika Zugzwang: I get along very well with him too.
Sudane Erato: can you talk to them?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I also have exchanged emails with him so I can contact him diredctly.
Sudane Erato: we need a stated list of land goals..
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure. I’ll send him an email.
Sudane Erato: exactly what we need the permissions to do
Ulrika Zugzwang: Did you want me to touch the recorder?
Sudane Erato: ah, yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: I never did taht.
Ulrika Zugzwang has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato: np
Ulrika Zugzwang: Got it.
Sudane Erato: only the littel sisters are not being recorded
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Good then I can say anything.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Uma Bauhaus: I like turnips!
Ulrika Zugzwang: 🙂
Sudane Erato: lol
Rudeen Edo: and I… god knows
Ulrika Zugzwang: It sounds like we need to make the land similar to anzere where the group had build permissions.
Sudane Erato: yes. but…
Ulrika Zugzwang: From there we need to create subgroups(?) that allow others to have private parcels of land.
Sudane Erato: this is a PI, so even that will be different
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: that’s the biggie
Sudane Erato: private parcels
Sudane Erato: we need to find out what priviledges can be transferred to the “owners”
Sudane Erato: it’s really important to make the deal attractive
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: to establish “value” for the parcels
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: thats why this investigation is so important
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’re also way over on prims for this tiny center build.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Mostly because of the church.
Sudane Erato: but… isn’t it all part of the island amount now?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: But to make a good offer to the land owners, we’re going to have to make sure that they get a certain amount of prims.
Sudane Erato: ah, yes..
Ulrika Zugzwang: RIght now they’ll be under what a normal sim would give because of our center.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just a small correction we’ll have to make.
Sudane Erato: so quickly we will need a system of prim administration
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Then we can implement that in the city center as well to keep people limited on the community builds too.
Sudane Erato: we should start by defining the lots, no?
Ulrika Zugzwang: So, I’d like to see some sort of group permissions restored so I can get to work cleaning up the city center and putting in the new and improved fachwerks that I built.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: The lots should be defined.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have a map of anzere. so next week, I’ll chop it up into a bunch of 512, 1024, 2048, … sections.
Sudane Erato: if I can define the lots…
Sudane Erato: and then set the permissions according to an agreed plan…
Sudane Erato: we should be going
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I want to make lots that are not rectangular though and have open space surrounding some of the larger ones for trees.
Sudane Erato: none of that, however, deals with the group/island issue
Sudane Erato: great!!
Sudane Erato: yes,
Sudane Erato: lets share a marked up map
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll also make roads so, if we grow we’ll already have the connecting spots defined.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: well, paths at least:)
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll make a hand map with a grid that shows 16 x 16 m^2 squares for the divisions.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I already sort of have one but I’ll beef it up.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Then we can mark on it and email it back and forth.
Sudane Erato: what tool shall we use
Ulrika Zugzwang: As investors we should have our pick of the best lots. 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh, any graphics editing program will work.
Sudane Erato: you have my note about the bit I marked..
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll just save it in PNG format.
Sudane Erato: what reads PNG?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Photoshop, gimp, etc.
Sudane Erato: I have Paintshop Pro, but not very good at it
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: PSP will do it too.
Ulrika Zugzwang: You’ll only need to circle things to take make notes. Maybe add text. No biggie.
Sudane Erato: then assume i will use PSP
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll take the input and clean it up.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure!
Sudane Erato: OK, good
Sudane Erato: lines for lots
Sudane Erato: and mark the bit you want me to set for you
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: here’s Gwyn!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was actually thinking of taking a chunk of land within the city walls.
Sudane Erato: ahh, good
Sudane Erato: don;t want those girls asleep
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Yes. 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: I thought taking a chunk in the city would open up more sellable space outside and allow me to finish some structures.
Sudane Erato: makes sense to me
Ulrika Zugzwang: If they are my home, I’d be more motivated to work on them.
Sudane Erato: i think that city RE will have more commericial value than residential value
Sudane Erato: to others
Ulrika Zugzwang: As a place to sell things?
Sudane Erato: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: so there will be space available for residential use
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. yes. I understand now.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I agree with you.
Ulrika Zugzwang: So just to reiterate, I will do:
Ulrika Zugzwang: -contact blaze and flipper for inside information.
Ulrika Zugzwang: -draw up the first cut of the zoning map.
Ulrika Zugzwang: -finish up the web page.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Is there anything else?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hello Gwyn!
Sudane Erato: Hi!
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, please touch the recorder over there to assent to being recorded
Sudane Erato: its a beta chat recorder
Ulrika Zugzwang: She’s a zombie!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Cover your heads!
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Sudane Erato: oh dear
Sudane Erato: she came in twice already
Sudane Erato: ?
Sudane Erato: she’s back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, well… I’m not only late, but “unstable”. Great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi everybody 🙂
Sudane Erato: welcome to the instability club
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’re having problems with sitting too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I see!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I really do apologise for being so late 🙁 🙁
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha!
Ulrika Zugzwang: DId you see the wink animation!!?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ve never seen that before. 😀
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, touch the chat recorder over there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes ….
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there you go!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha. Priceless.
Sudane Erato: thats the beta that Eloise made
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah right… let’s hope it works 🙂
Sudane Erato: we’ll record both ways, just to be sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, have you been lucky catching the Lindens? Since they’re “on the move”, I’ve been unable to get a “knowledgeable” Linden for the past 2 or 3 days…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just get the Lindens on teleworking…
Sudane Erato: well, they’ve been moving
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And they understand as much about the Estate tools as I do 🙂 … meaning, “zilch” 🙂
Sudane Erato: we talked about talking with others who have a similiar experience to ours
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me get cards from your alts…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like talen morgan, for instance…?
Sudane Erato: no..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Uma lol
Sudane Erato: Eloise suggested people who have private sims but who have deeded them to groups
Ulrika Zugzwang: FlipperPA and blaze Spinnaker were mentioned.
Sudane Erato: Ulrika knows them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have Flippers email and will send him a message.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Flip is cool 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll PM blaze since we’re forum monkeys. 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: He is!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good point 🙂
Sudane Erato: we also discussed developing the lots…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
Sudane Erato: and then setting build permissions of the lots
Sudane Erato: so that at least build work can get done by group members
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be a starting point, yes.
Sudane Erato: the big questions tho, are the land permissions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn’t like the “implications” that you can set things to be “irreversible”… so, any mistake, means catastrophe! That’s terrible.
Uma Bauhaus: redrum. redrum.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: well, i think you’re right that we could “sell” back to the owner, and start all over again
Ulrika Zugzwang: Want to experiment with a deeding a chunk of land to the group and seeing what happens?
Sudane Erato: so we may have to be experimental about this
Ulrika Zugzwang: Jinx.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, right…
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: but, what are we going to test?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, you can create a parcel outside the city, Sudane…
Ulrika Zugzwang: We could take an object like the fachwerk that we want to remain closed and then place it on a parcel of empty land.
Sudane Erato: thus my note regarding our specific goals
Ulrika Zugzwang: We can then deed it to group and see what happens.
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Sudane Erato: the object, or the land
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just the land.
Ulrika Zugzwang: For starters.
Ulrika Zugzwang: (With the fachwerk above it.)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes… since 1.6, when you sell the land, you get the objects as well, so you do a 2-in-1 test anyway.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That sounds groovy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: Rudeen just crashed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yikes…
Sudane Erato: I need to check the land permissions
Sudane Erato: because I think they are on the estate menu
Ulrika Zugzwang: I hate to be a party pooper, I have to get packed up for our Muir Woods trip. We want to be on the Golden Gate bridge by 12:00 to see the Boat Parade in the Bay.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, Ulrika, *if* I were here on time, we’d had time for that 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have my sister in town with my niece. We’re doing the tourist thing until tomorrow. 😀
Sudane Erato: no guilt now!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I still can be used as a “tester” for Sudane, if she likes…
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, you’ll be a tourist guide, ulrika? 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: My family goes back tomorrow morning, so I’ll be back at it then.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. I’m having a lot of fun.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: We went whale watching yesterday.
Sudane Erato: neat!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I got so sea sick. *ugh*
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, that’s not good..
Ulrika Zugzwang: It was OK.
Sudane Erato: did you see whales?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I mananged to keep breakfast down using my patent first-trimester vomit supression techniques. 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: *patented
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Deep breaths (in through nose out through mouth), positive thoughts, and no head turning.
Ulrika Zugzwang: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: We saw 8 humpback whales.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nothing like an expert…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow!
Sudane Erato: very neat!
Ulrika Zugzwang: It was amazing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eight?!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s awesome…!
Sudane Erato: humpbacks are big, no?
Ulrika Zugzwang: They were popping up all around us while feeding.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. We were 6 miles offshore.
Sudane Erato: the really big ones?
Ulrika Zugzwang: They’re huge.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That close to the land? I’m impressed…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. We even saw several flukes (flippers)
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. They’re migrating north from Mexico right now.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Up to Alaska.
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, migration season, i see…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sorry to derail the discussion.
Ulrika Zugzwang: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: (Just like me in the forums.)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: right, right 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well I’m going to get running. I have my list of tasks:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, if Sudane has some free time, I’ll be able to help her out…
Ulrika Zugzwang: -contact the priv. sim folks,
Ulrika Zugzwang: -parcel up land
Ulrika Zugzwang: -finish website
Sudane Erato: I’m here, available
Sudane Erato: sounds great, Ulrika!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll be in contact shortly so we can have things up and running by this weekend.
Sudane Erato: great… BTW, I can’t be around next weekend
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have all new fachwerks that I want to depoy.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK Sudane.
Sudane Erato: orthodox Easter
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also have tomorrow free… it’s a national holiday 🙂 Although I won’t be online all the time, unfortunately I have some work to do in RL despite the holiday…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ah yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: New fachwerk? Sounds promising!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have Friday off too.
Ulrika Zugzwang: None of it lines up though. 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll be on on Friday for sure.
Sudane Erato: I’ll be around til Friday
Ulrika Zugzwang: If we can figure out how to do the land by then I’ll redo all the fachwerks.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: back on Monday
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, I best fly!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have bouncing ten year olds around me. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: all right… well Ulrika, don’t make your sister wait…
Sudane Erato: good travels!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Never seen a kid so excited to see big trees before. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe, “cannon fodder” for the Teen grid, I guess 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ciao!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and bye bye!
Sudane Erato: bye
Uma Bauhaus: redrum.
Uma Bauhaus: Tschau. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tschuess 🙂
Sudane Erato: Rudeen computer is very slow to reboot
Sudane Erato: hold on, let me check the estate menu
Sudane Erato: no, all the land permissions are set by the lotsRA Meeting: May 08, 2005
Ulrika Zugzwang: Interesting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A nice side effect is that if you mark those plots for “sale”, they appear on the Find Land tab!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, people look at them “as if” they were “normal land”.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Interesting. Like Anshe does.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is, of course, WAY COOL 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah – precisely!
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s HOW she does it!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, of course, like we know how the community reacts…
Sudane Erato: but, we’re not selling just land, but also an idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Anshe is doing precisely the same as “net effect” with the difference that she’s the Tyrant and there is no way to “replace” her at her sim.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the “net effect” is, people get land at a private sim.
Sudane Erato: she had some problem with the Lindens about that, no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, hmm, the discussion has been, let’s say, a bit “flamey”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But from the “community” at large.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They discussed a very interesting point….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (this is “philosophy” and politics, btw)
Sudane Erato: I thought she was not listed in a way she expected to be
Ulrika Zugzwang: By replace you mean by voting someone out via a group election?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Linden Lab sells land in the mainland, and has a ToS that entitles you to use a parcel of land, and pay for it. This is called “a land sale”.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Others (Anshe, Neualtenburg…) sell land on a private sim, have a contract with the buyer which entitles you to certain rights, and you pay for it as well. Is this a “land sale”?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. It’s a bit different than LL.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, the point here is… if LL sells land under ToS, it’s a “sale”. If a group sells land under an agreement, it’s not.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We almost need people to agree to a contract before hand.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: we do, certainly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Ulrika – but when you buy land, you’re also agree to the contract in the ToS!
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s something else. A group land sale?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because LL can “take away your land” without prior notice if they wish.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. What to call it…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that was the question.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Legally, it’s the SAME.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: company – agreement/contract – pay monthly fee – buyer
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Both models are *exactly the same*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You see the problem 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: no?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: People argue “but we trust LL and not Anshe” 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well LL is still the federal authority.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, Sudane, what I mean is – legally, there is NO difference.
Sudane Erato: right
Ulrika Zugzwang: So we’re injecting a layer between the palayer for the first time.
Sudane Erato: yes, that I see
Ulrika Zugzwang: *player
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, so you can’t sell anything here which violates ToS – but you can certainly add things to ToS (say, like having a saying in the democratically-elected government 🙂 )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yep.
Sudane Erato: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, think about a similar example…
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’re intermediate land contractors.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does Linden Lab “own” their infrastructure in RL?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The answer is – NO.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They colocate at Internap.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. Intermediate land sellers and governors. Hmm.
Ulrika Zugzwang: ?
Sudane Erato: hmmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: Interesting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: however, if the grid fails, you’re not going to internap to bother the,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your agreement is with LL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not with Internap
Sudane Erato: I’m beginning to see
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But machines, infrastructure, etc. are from Internap 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe yes, Sudane
Ulrika Zugzwang: So do our citizens have no say with LL?
Sudane Erato: that’s my question, what does this mean for us?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The contract you have with LL for them to “give access to a grid” which is NOT “owned” by LL, is exactly the same people will have with Neualtenburg, although LL is the “federal authority”.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Or do we treat the Lindens like a federal govt allowing people to go around if there are city problems which can’t be resolved?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, ulrika, not at all – we have to abide by ToS.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So residents COULD go to LL and complain
Sudane Erato: then Ulrika is right
Ulrika Zugzwang: But then we’d have to kill them.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Erm. Was that outloud?
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, the contract is with the City Government, and it’s as legally binding for a “sale” in Neualtenburg, as a “sale” in the mainland sims are legally binding with LL.
Sudane Erato: frontier justice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: I see.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It sounds like a conversation I would like. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the ISSUE here is that Robin Linden doesn’t want people to call it a “land sale”
Ulrika Zugzwang: I missed it in the forums.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, take a look at the forums 🙂 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s still going on.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. We need a new name for it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, “covenant” or something
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ve got it!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just to make everybody happy
Ulrika Zugzwang: I land deed with a covenant!
Ulrika Zugzwang: *A land deed …
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’ll insist on the forums and with Robin that they should get their lawyers looking very precisely on the legal terms 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s what we’re selling. It’s not land — it’s a deed to land.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: MM hmm
Sudane Erato: well, I agree, its not a land sale, in the way I understand it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, being nasty – but isn’t that exactly what LL is doing? 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: in New York coops, we have whats called a proprietary lease
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Worse. They’re “deeding land” to you, on “land” which is not LL’s property, but Internap’s 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: YES!
Ulrika Zugzwang: A proprietar lease. 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: *tary
Sudane Erato: that might fit
Ulrika Zugzwang: I caon’t type today.
Ulrika Zugzwang: *can’t
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, I guess that we should be just a bit careful in “naming” stuff.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since Anshe calls it “selling land” like the Lindens call it “selling land” 😉
Sudane Erato: the owners hold shares in a corp, and in exchange they get to lease a space
Ulrika Zugzwang: I see the complication. I’ll clean up the language on the webpage.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I agree with this. It’s not a problem for me.
Sudane Erato: with restrictions
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Sudane!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’d like to learn more about that.
Ulrika Zugzwang: (So much to learn.)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Ulrika, personally, I totally disagree on Robin’s evaluation on this 😉 and I’ll haunt her in the forums – VERY GENTLY, of course 😉 But I think that Neualtenburg should “stay away” and be careful.
Sudane Erato: 🙂 yes indeed
Ulrika Zugzwang: I see what you’re saying gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: yes, I too see
Ulrika Zugzwang: Are they afraid that Anshe is going to give “sellling land” a bad name?
Sudane Erato: but again, what does it mean for us
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mm hmm
Sudane Erato: that we should definiutely not “sell land”
Ulrika Zugzwang: It seems like controll over the language to prevent damage to their own business.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sounds like the tactics of an oligarchy to me. 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: For us, it just means that, for the moment, we just need to announce something else than “land ownership” as the ToS (badly) defines it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, ulrika 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: which I think is a good thing…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Anshe wasn’t careful enough – although, again, I admit she IS right on this, and LL isn’t 😉
Sudane Erato: since many folks have associations with what sell land means
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because they don’t read the ToS carefully – and I guess even Robin didn’t, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Understood. We should threaten their model without treading on their terminology. I can live with that.
Sudane Erato: and they might not get it… our contract
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe precisely Ulrika 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And we even have an advantage, we just say: “oh no no we’re NOT ‘selling land’ like Anshe, it’s a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT thingy!”
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we can explain WHY it’s different 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: although it isn’t, LOL
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. That’s what’s great about us three — we have power skills in the explaining department.
Ulrika Zugzwang: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Phase II is certainly going to be LOADS of fun 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes! I already have our first potential customer.
Sudane Erato: so long as it gets paid for…
Ulrika Zugzwang: It will slowly but surely.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, here comes our friend Eugene…. 🙂
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Ulrika Zugzwang: Eugene?
Eugene Pomeray: hello 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, he’s just outside 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello Eugene!
Sudane Erato: hello!
Eugene Pomeray: hello Gwyn 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Howdy Eugene!
Eugene Pomeray: howdy Ulrika!11
Eugene Pomeray: whopps no 11s
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eugene the Lightbringer…. hmmm
Eugene Pomeray: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s the ole Windlicht.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah ok 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I animated that. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah I was wondering about that!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I talked to Kendra today. SHe’s going to allow us to chop up the Spital (I think) for more housing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah lol
Eugene Pomeray: ok
Sudane Erato: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was talking about the Kirche a bit with Sudane 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: She’s going to give me the groovy old textures and allow me to build an old section in the spital area. 🙂
Sudane Erato: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I’ll need to rally a group of church supporters saying “Don’t destroy the Kirche!” or something 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have 4 new fachwerks done too!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4??
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Tell me about the church!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I know, it has too many prims 😛
Sudane Erato: against that “church-seller” Suadne! 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’d like to keep the church.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too! Me too!
Eugene Pomeray: same here
Ulrika Zugzwang: We need to thin out the prims tho.
Sudane Erato: me too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: argh 😛
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sheesh. It got way out of hand. You can keep most of the detail with half the prims.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Especially the towers. They have loads of prims in the them.
Sudane Erato: Ulrika, you’re making a very long list for yourself 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’ll look fine thinned out a wee bit.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh, I didn’t volunteer for that.
Ulrika Zugzwang: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m just saying, whoever wants to do a click->delete can do so, although we should contact BladeDancer? Pendragon to see if he wants to do it.
Ulrika Zugzwang: He might be over the church by now.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me thinks of doing an historic speech on one of the oldest and loveliest monuments in the city, being “defaced” by capitalistic greed et al
Ulrika Zugzwang: Poor guy has been at it for 8 months.
Sudane Erato: yes, haven’t seen him for a long time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true, I haven’t seen him around…
Ulrika Zugzwang: We should be careful with what we privatize.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’ll be cutting up the spital so we’ll have tons more land shortly.
Sudane Erato: ahh, capitalist greed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I have an idea…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll contribute my plot’s prims for the Church!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Also Kendra is building Altenburg still on her own land. 🙂
Sudane Erato: Ulrika, we’ll have a serious problem partitioning the city
Eugene Pomeray: Altenburg?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh I can do that. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The castle.
Eugene Pomeray: ah
Sudane Erato: thats great!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hang on about the castle …
Sudane Erato: I’ve been very worried
Ulrika Zugzwang: Today I’m going to nuke the fachwerks,
Ulrika Zugzwang: partition the land,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, hmm, because some houses don’t fall neatly into boundaries…
Sudane Erato: OK
Sudane Erato: ahh, i see
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ouch, you’re getting dangerous, Ulrika!!
Ulrika Zugzwang: and then put down all the new homes within the zoned areas. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wow
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh, they’re just my cookie cutter fachwerks.
Sudane Erato: yes, of course..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bulldozer Ulrika 😉
Sudane Erato: perfect
Ulrika Zugzwang: The new ones are much much nicer.
Eugene Pomeray: how will the new fachwerks look?
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: The look almost identical with higher quality textures and in different colors and styles.
Eugene Pomeray: 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have the textures doen, I just need to upload them and then add them to the existing structures.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Won’t that take ages? I can help a bit if you like, depending on *when* you’re doing that. I think I can still manage to move prims around…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have negotiated the entire day to work on SL. 😀
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah lovely!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh no. It’ll be easy.
Sudane Erato: thats really great
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m well practiced at it.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: My goal is to have the majority of the inside rebuilt and zoned today.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so that point is solved… Sudane said she was really worried about the in-city parcelling.
Sudane Erato: great!
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Sudane Erato: yes, I was..
Sudane Erato: but it sounds like we’ve got it
Ulrika Zugzwang: After that I’m going to pin Eugene down and tickle him until he passes out.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Ulrika Zugzwang: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: lol
Sudane Erato: and Ulrika, the new thread on the covenent is major
Sudane Erato: I’ll email you a description of a coop agreement…
Sudane Erato: see if it helps the definitions
Eugene Pomeray: oh yes, i have an idea for more market space
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. I’ve seen a few. It’s legalese over 5 pages. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Excellent, Sudane 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, lol
Sudane Erato: well, I’ll just describe it
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’ll have to make an SL version for those with short attention spans like me.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That sounds excellent.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: don’t make me laugh, ulrika 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Go ahead Eugene.
Sudane Erato: of course we need to do our version
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “short attention spans” indeed…
Eugene Pomeray: OK, well behind the fachwerks we can put vendor stalls
Eugene Pomeray: for holovenders
Sudane Erato: yes
Sudane Erato: whats a holovendor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, the thingy in the Marktplatz, Sudane.
Eugene Pomeray: or a regular vendor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The one that rezzes in a “floating image” of the item to sell.
Sudane Erato: oh!
Sudane Erato: now I see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *nods*
Eugene Pomeray: it gives extra space for people to sell, and more money to us 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: am i making much sense 😛
Sudane Erato: Yes, i thought that the houses should all be possible shops
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, originally, Eugene, the idea would be to have holovendors as the only “official” vendor in the shops…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of the sales tax.
Sudane Erato: all the vendors must be “official”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was hoping to dedicate a whole row of buildings right on the platz for selling.
Ulrika Zugzwang: That might take care of things.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Ulrika! 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Right now they are all those lego-style stacked structures.
Eugene Pomeray: yes, but behind the buildings, there can be mini stalls
Sudane Erato: yes, but any building could be for selling…
Sudane Erato: and living too
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK Eugene. To maximize land usage!
Sudane Erato: true, good idea
Ulrika Zugzwang: I won’t say no to that. 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: exactly 🙂
Sudane Erato: you have to be able to find them
Sudane Erato: if they’re not on the streets
Sudane Erato: thats why i like the medieval idea of shop below, housing above
Ulrika Zugzwang: The only problem with putting shops under houses, it that it will cut into the prims of those who own the shops above.
Sudane Erato: but, they should be the same person
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They should, yes….
Ulrika Zugzwang: As is, prims will be low low low in the city with tiny little 144 m2 lots.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. I understand.
Sudane Erato: yes, true
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Question: will there be places for RENTING or have we abandoned that idea completely?
Eugene Pomeray: Sorry, but I have to go! 🙁
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh, did you all see my proposed inner-wall city pricing?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, see you Eugene!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll get to that in one sec Gwyn. 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: bye!
Sudane Erato: bye, Eugene
Ulrika Zugzwang: Bye!
Ulrika Zugzwang: He’s a great guy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And hmm, no I didn’t…. is it on the official site? I’m briwsing through it right now…
Ulrika Zugzwang: We’re luck to have him in the group. 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: *lucky
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm true 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s in the Join section.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…. I have it open…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was thinking of charging more for land inside the walls (monthly only).
Sudane Erato: ahh, yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: Right now I set it at 2x but it go lower to 1.5x if you’d like.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
Sudane Erato: that would make sense if the plots were commercial/residential
Sudane Erato: inside plots
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: They’re com/res in the walls.
Sudane Erato: yes, exactly
Ulrika Zugzwang: Is 2x too high?
Sudane Erato: whatever the monthly starts off…
Ulrika Zugzwang: The prices are so low.
Sudane Erato: it can be changed
Sudane Erato: the prices should be low to start
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Sudane Erato: then, as the market environment changes
Sudane Erato: you can change the rates
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see there is still the possibility of paying in L$ instead of US$
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We should discuss that.
Sudane Erato: also, as the degree of Neualt success changes
Sudane Erato: the rates might change.
Sudane Erato: since we are non-profit
Ulrika Zugzwang: I say yes but we need to have an overhead to cover conversion costs and rate changes.
Sudane Erato: yes, of course
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, as to changing rates – that is something we can deal with later, and have just the “starting prices” announced for now.
Sudane Erato: yes..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As to paying with L$, well, i have my doubts.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just because of one thing…
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: and I think its reasonable for the starting prices to be low
Gwyneth Llewelyn: GOM being unable to provide all the necessary US$ we need
Sudane Erato: what about IGE
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or… failing that… we could destroy the market, buying well below the trend
Sudane Erato: I use them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s an option, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: or even Anshe 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: *shiver*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
Sudane Erato: ahh, interesting
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, hank then 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ramos?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yeop
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure. 😀
Sudane Erato: what does it matter who?
Sudane Erato: its the rate!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So long as the agreement to pay in L$ is very clear about the rates…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I only do business with ethical retailers.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah Sudane, there is the “personal” thing behind that 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Anshe is not an option for me. 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe right 😉
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me is pretty neutral on this
Ulrika Zugzwang: Plus, if Anshe and I ever touched we’d vanish in a flash of photons.
Sudane Erato: in a true capitalist society, values have no place 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: That’s the problem with capitalism.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I’m the only person in SL that can keep a conversation with Ulrika, Prokofy and Anshe at the same time 😉
Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: It eats people.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha!
Sudane Erato: I can do with all except Prokofy
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s not bring the personal issues in here…
Sudane Erato: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: True Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: My point of view is simple…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If people are expecting to pay in L$…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’ll have to understand that we aren’t going to guarantee a fixed rate or something
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since we may have to use GOM, IGE, Hank Ramos, etc…
Sudane Erato: we need never guarantee a fixed fee
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was thinking of even creating an official middle person.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: According to availability and not necessarily “best rate”.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh? Explain that to us…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Such as myself who would take their $L and pay their US$ for them via pay pal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, i see!
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You = more likely Uma Bauhaus 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or the “official treasurer” or something.
Ulrika Zugzwang: It could be a private service ontop of the nonprofit work.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. Uma.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Sudane Erato: but, I see no need for the middle person!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just a thought though.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, no
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean, Rudeen will pay LL…
Sudane Erato: the city can do that, in the person of it avatars
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I only say middle person because it will be hard work. One could offer incentives to take that responsibility.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that you mention it, it MAY make sense.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of the following…
Sudane Erato: well, it would be hard work to keep the rates low
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine that people in neualtenburg are “worried” because Rudeen is “doing everything”
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: then it would be normal work for so so rates
Ulrika Zugzwang: Right.
Sudane Erato: and its the issue of the spread
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the treasury would be more “spread” – Rudeen gets payed in US$, Uma in L$, and there is an alt for the Casino as well…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: Too much overhead could sour the deal.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like it!
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well we can discuss it in the forums too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is Guild business, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: It might be a way to pull in more folks if the US$ aren’t attracting the crowds.
Sudane Erato: its rather involved for chat
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes it is!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Good call Gwyn.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: also, remember the problems paying with Paypal
Ulrika Zugzwang: I have 2 more topics for the RA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes Sudane. That too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, go ahead, Ulrika…
Ulrika Zugzwang: First, would you two be interested in a reduction in monthly rates for those who are serving in the RA?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah no way, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: (Or the other branches possibly).
Sudane Erato: no, i think not… not now
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Public service is public service – no “special allowances”
Sudane Erato: maybe later
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just thought I’d thorw it out there. 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Next on the list …
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Sudane Erato: ah the temtress!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I’m glad you did – since we can officially put that up as a RA decision 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, ulrika is evil (it says so on her profile 🙂 )
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Put up and struck down. Ha ha.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: I haven’t changed that profile since I was a cynical newbie.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: At least until the next elections, due on the 22nd or so 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: I should redo hat.
Ulrika Zugzwang: *that
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “I’m Not So Evil Anymore” 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Sudane Erato: LOL
Ulrika Zugzwang: Or … now I”m crafty about it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Sudane Erato: LOL
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. Final thing.
Sudane Erato: ROFL
Ulrika Zugzwang: I wanted to do something that’s quite unusual with my tract of land.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Ulrika Zugzwang: It combines privatized public space, rental spaces, and my home.
Ulrika Zugzwang: So it’s kind of like Sudane’s idea for the church.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so far, so good…
Sudane Erato: “privatized public”?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hang on. You can help me with the terminology after I ‘splain it. 😉
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *nods*
Ulrika Zugzwang: I propose to purchase the castle land on the East of the city in the walls.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’d make a structure for me, build a new senate, build a castle.
Ulrika Zugzwang: The castle would contain a few rental units while the bottom half would be for all citizens.
Ulrika Zugzwang: If it is a success and we find ourselves flush with money someday, I’ll transfer ownership of the castle and senate to the city.
Ulrika Zugzwang: If you’d like the senate just flat out public form the start, we can do that too.
Ulrika Zugzwang: *from the start
Ulrika Zugzwang: What do you think?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah I think I understand.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the idea would be to keep the senate, but keep it out from “public commons” so that you don’t count it towards available land for sale.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I’d like to do the same with the Church 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, certainly, I agree with that.
Ulrika Zugzwang: But I’d only want to do this if people can “own” the build.
Sudane Erato: ?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Like, I don’t want you to be burdened with the church if you’d prefer a home.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although the city would have a special agreement towards the usage of the Senate.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no, lol, Ulrika, I’ll be more than glad to “use” my land for the Church, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: I want to feel like I “own” the build, like the way BladeDance? “owned” the church.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have too many “homes” already 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: let me say my thoughts
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK>
Sudane Erato: you make things far too complex
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Sudane Erato: I have no problem with you buying the castle land
Sudane Erato: and doing what ever you wish… renting whatever
Sudane Erato: but I think that the senate and the church should either be public land or private land
Sudane Erato: we can designate you as the new exclusive architect..
Sudane Erato: that makes a lot of sense
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *scratches head*
Sudane Erato: but there must be clairty
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. The senate is public. That’s easy.
Sudane Erato: the land for the senate must be public in the sense it is not on the tax roles
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll rebuild it as a guild member. 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: The same for the church?
Sudane Erato: yes, and you can be the exclusive architect
Gwyneth Llewelyn: /me *shrugs*
Sudane Erato: if the guiold or the RA decides
Sudane Erato: whoever
Sudane Erato: I just need clarity
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA can comission the Guild to rebuild the castle, and designate Ulrika. No problem on that.
Ulrika Zugzwang: The senate is public for sure.
Sudane Erato: well, the castle can be private, for all I care
Ulrika Zugzwang: You don’t have a problem with the castle though Sudane?
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither do I.
Sudane Erato: you deserve it
Sudane Erato: although..
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let’s start it out private with the goal of it becoming public after completion.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I give to the city. 🙂
Sudane Erato: you’re well on your way to becoming Queen Ulrika!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, to be honest, I don’t have a problem with the Senate building being “private” and the City can use any other structure for meetings, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: (I know you dislike gifts.) 😉
Sudane Erato: right
Sudane Erato: well, Gwyn;, eys
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re even supposed to have a Rathaus down there…
Sudane Erato: but why is it the senate, then?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Wuld you like to combine the rathaus with the senate. Skip the dome and go with a Bavarian building?
Sudane Erato: what is a Rathaus?
Ulrika Zugzwang: That might make sense.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Rathaus is a government house (Rat = Govt).
Sudane Erato: more private tax role properties!
Sudane Erato: ahh
Sudane Erato: smaller government!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Just move the meeting onto the town square.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don’t know. What do you all think.
Sudane Erato: I think we should move it behind locked doors
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm.
Sudane Erato: only partly kidding
Ulrika Zugzwang: Let’s think about this. These are definitely tough subjects.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, *I* think that Neualtenburg’s government is really so small, that we don’t need two separate structures for “meetings”.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: true
Ulrika Zugzwang: So you’re saying scrap the dome?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, from my point of view, I’d drop the dome, yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Done.
Sudane Erato: is this the dome? what we’re in?
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll see if I can throw up a rathaus today too. It’ll be simple.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yup. We’re in the dome.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And it wasn’t ever completed… although I liked the idea of being a “work in progress”; like the Government itself 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Sudane Erato: you’re right.. we can be in a simple room
Sudane Erato: should be fairly big, tho
Ulrika Zugzwang: With nice furniture and chairs.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, can we agree on this? No more “dome” and all this land is for Ulrika to build the castle?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Could be nice.
Sudane Erato: much easier to see everyone
Sudane Erato: yes, I agreee enthusiastically
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s agreeable to you as well, ulrika?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess that your “ok” has answered it 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
Ulrika Zugzwang: As long as we’re on a roll, what about the church.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, how big is the Church’s plot anyway?
Sudane Erato: I agree to go along with a consensus
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and how many prims does it take…
Sudane Erato: its more practical than what I have suggested
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: More than 1872 prims?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: on a 8192 plot?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Give me 1 sec and I’ll let you know.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve never checked, to be honest…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can’t get the whole listing on the “Land” tab in the group information box 🙁
Sudane Erato: oh well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Eugene!
Sudane Erato: what is the issue to decide?
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s about 3000 m2.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Sorry I was gone so long.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only that? Hmm. and how many prims?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me try to explain…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m willing to do a similar thing as with the castle here
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m not sure. Let me go check.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Say, get a 4096 plot or the equivalent needed for the church’s prims
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe bon voyage, Ulrika
Sudane Erato: well, question.
Sudane Erato: could we donate prims…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Sudane Erato: like…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was just suggesting this, if the Church is above the threshold for 3000 m2
Sudane Erato: have our land in a group which shares the church?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: precisely my idea, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: then its not an either/or situation
Ulrika Zugzwang: It’s 2128 m^2. It supports 487 prims. It’s using 990 prims.
Sudane Erato: whew
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ulrika, what Sudane was saying is a way to get out of this issue…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m willing to set up a group with the required amount of prims for the Church
Gwyneth Llewelyn: around 5000 or so m2
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which will have a plot somewhere in the sim, empty
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is always great, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND hold the Church 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: welll… or
Sudane Erato: add our own land to the group..
Gwyneth Llewelyn: around 4500 or so.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Another way to do that is to connect all the space under the roads and bridge to the church.
Sudane Erato: and simply not use all our prims
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, but they’ll have prims on it as well…
Sudane Erato: well, yes!
Ulrika Zugzwang: To be honest though, the church could use 450 prims and still be amazing.
Sudane Erato: but that is the same as city ownership!
Ulrika Zugzwang: BladeDancer? just wan’t that prim efficient.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah, pfft, old monuments were never efficient, LOL
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and this can wait 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: I trimmed my fachwerk from 150 prims down to 25.
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I just want you to get a good deal gwyn.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway, at the beginning of Phase II, I’ll have to pay a lot for space 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah I know, Ulrika!
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don’t want you taking on the church as a burden to solve a structural problem for us.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Sudane won’t like us “giving things” to Neualtenburg as well.
Sudane Erato: right
Ulrika Zugzwang: I want it to be yours if you’re going to take it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, i don’t want it to go away!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Not yours but the hybrid public-yours we’ve been discussing.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Privately owned for public use 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: Gwyn can be the city designated care-=taker
Gwyneth Llewelyn: who me? lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA, as a whole, is the caretaker.
Ulrika Zugzwang: You shouldn’t be forced into a position of charity just to solve the problems of the build. That’s all.
Sudane Erato: yes, thats right…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes, Ulrika, I hear you 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: at least not all by yourself
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m just looking out for you. 😉
Sudane Erato: since some of us might share the same feelings
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes. you. 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, I really appreciate it, and probably comission you to trim some prims, under my strict supervision 😉
Sudane Erato: good, Ulrika would be good at that!
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you can cut a few more prims off, I’ll add extra features, hehe
Ulrika Zugzwang: Snip snip.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Sudane Erato: lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: Perhaps there’s a way we can transfer the whole structure to you.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm
Ulrika Zugzwang: We could sell the parcel to BladeDancer?, then have you buy it for $o.
Ulrika Zugzwang: $0.
Sudane Erato: reminder: Simple Simple
Ulrika Zugzwang: Would that give you ownership?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to set up a group.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Rudeen has to deed it to that group.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: With the structure.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Sudane Erato: and then you have to be responsible for the tier
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Sudane Erato: and then you have my proposal!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Your proposal being…?
Ulrika Zugzwang: ?
Sudane Erato: that a group “own” the church, not the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes.
Sudane Erato: and that it be an interest group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the idea.
Eugene Pomeray: i have to go again :p my mother is here for mother’s day
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol ok Eugene!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ciao EUgene!
Sudane Erato: lol
Sudane Erato: bye!
Eugene Pomeray: bye everyone
Ulrika Zugzwang: BYe.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Sudane, that was my idea…
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Having a group, owning the church – but this very same group will also be “used” for other things, like group announcements for the church, tec.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *etc
Sudane Erato: well, I think that’s a good idea, if the group can be mustered
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah it can be a one-person group
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: actually, three-person group 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll join.
Sudane Erato: yes, and the group probably should agree with the city to keep the church and maintain its programs under certain standards
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even if by some insane reason I get “voted out”… Rudeen can still claim the land, etc.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah certainly, Suande
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Sudane
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Sudane Erato: yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and thanks Ulrika 🙂
Sudane Erato: I will join too
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll have to fix my groups, hmm
Sudane Erato: but, better a group…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I need another 50 or so 😉
Ulrika Zugzwang: I know!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Group limits are a hassle.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, they are 😛
Ulrika Zugzwang: Well, I should get going. I need to eat, convert my textures to TGA, and then start uploading. 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oops. Sudane is gone. 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah Sudane crashed, lol
Ulrika Zugzwang: She’s gonna be mad!
Ulrika Zugzwang: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought she was writing something…
Ulrika Zugzwang: Me too.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was waiting.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so was I lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there she is again…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I don’t see her yet.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: let me offer her a tp…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Sudane 🙂
Sudane Erato: sorry.
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😀
Gwyneth Llewelyn: no problem 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: I was telling gwyn that I better run.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one issue for the RA to discuss in the next meeting or so…
Ulrika Zugzwang: I need to eat and get some textures done.
Sudane Erato: OK,
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Time for discussing the next elections.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And ok, ulrika….
Sudane Erato: ahh, yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t need to discuss them until May, 22nd
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Is that when elections are due?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oficially, we told in public that we would do elections near the “day of move”
Ulrika Zugzwang: We could always extend them until we have a populace.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Sudane Erato: I suggest now that we postpone them
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
Ulrika Zugzwang: Right now it would be a boring election.
Ulrika Zugzwang: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I abstain 😉
Sudane Erato: exactly
Sudane Erato: theres no one to vote
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m willing to explain that publicly….
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. That sounds good to me.
Ulrika Zugzwang: We can hold elections as soon as we’re at a certain percent of occupancy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like, hmm, Phase II will attract new citizens, and we would like them to vote as well, so we’re giving everybody a break.
Ulrika Zugzwang: TBD.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, sounds a good compromise.
Sudane Erato: thats a great idea!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Works for me.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. I’m going to eat. I’m starvin’!
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm Sudane, is Neualtenburg “visible” at the moment from the mainland?
Ulrika Zugzwang: Next time youlog in, check out the new buildings Gwyn.
Sudane Erato: no food in SL! 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and don’t die from hunger in SL, lol
Sudane Erato: Neault is visible to all
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ha ha.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I certainly will!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Excellent.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be around here for a while… church meeting at 4 PM hehe
Sudane Erato: I left it open after the thinkers mtg
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right. Although I wasn’t able to hold it here!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I will next Tuesday.
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It seems that to have everything configured properly, you need to set up “landing points” first.
Sudane Erato: sorry I can’t be here tonight
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve done that for some parcels…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And don’t worry, Sudane 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK! I’ll be here too. 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: NP Sudane.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll do some more.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh. for the meeting. Nevermind.
Sudane Erato: we need to contact the LL on another issue.. the telehub is still marked below
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I have an idea to use Neualtenburg as a “battle field” for the guys doing the Portal Wars game… 🙂
Ulrika Zugzwang: Hmm. Yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. RIght.
Sudane Erato: but… we’re pacifists!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Ooh. That would be fun.
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’m a leftist. I was born with a gun in my hand.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And, hmm, when you CRASH in Neualtenburg, you appear at the OLD telehub spot, right?
Ulrika Zugzwang: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol
Sudane Erato: yes
Ulrika Zugzwang: Oh. That’s a pain.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: but when you teleport in, you go to the new destination instead. Hmm.
Ulrika Zugzwang: OK. I’m about to pass out. I have to go eat!
Sudane Erato: and it might end up being in someone’s house
Gwyneth Llewelyn: go away, Ulrika!!!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😀
Ulrika Zugzwang: I’ll see you all soon.
Ulrika Zugzwang: Bye!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye bye
Ulrika Zugzwang: *ooh* woozy.
Sudane Erato: bye!
Ulrika Zugzwang: Tschau!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww poor Ulrika.
Sudane Erato: good meeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed, did you manage to capture it all?
Sudane Erato: yes, in about 2 dozen emails!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aah wow
Sudane Erato: Eloise’s machine is really good!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m glad it works 🙂
Sudane Erato: well, we’ve all got work!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe right 🙂RA Meeting: June 27, 2005
Dianne Mechanique: oh
Dianne Mechanique: :)hi sudane
Sudane Erato: there she is!
Eugene Pomeray: hi gwyn!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello all 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Eugene Pomeray: ok
Eugene Pomeray: start
Neualtenburg Balloon whispers: Balloon is released.
Sudane Erato: but wait…
Sudane Erato: what if other people come?
Garnet Psaltery: well you told us to look for the crowd
Garnet Psaltery: so that’s what they’ll do
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: when Gwyn gets in we can fly somewhere beyond th efog
Dianne Mechanique: hi gwyneth
Ryker Tonic: lets hover close by
Dianne Mechanique: how far up to get out of the fog?
Ryker Tonic: just in case
Dianne Mechanique: they will still see us no?
Garnet Psaltery: we could go down into the valley
Dianne Mechanique: nice and clear here
Eugene Pomeray: stop
Neualtenburg Balloon whispers: Balloon is stopped.
Eugene Pomeray: is this good?
Garnet Psaltery: good for me
Sudane Erato: can you fly up to 227 ?
Eugene Pomeray: we are at 229
Ryker Tonic: Every time I see Eugene…there’s a strong chance of getting airsick.
Garnet Psaltery: what’s at 227?
Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: this is my absolute first ride in a balloon
Sudane Erato: our height
Dianne Mechanique: so i am okay with it
Sudane Erato: mine too!
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: oh I shoudl have goven you a ride in mine
Dianne Mechanique: yes i hoped yo would but no
Dianne Mechanique: 🙁
Garnet Psaltery: too busy sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder what will happen if we getmore than two extra people on this ride 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’ll have to grab the rails…
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: please excus eme a moment I need to go upstairs ..
Dianne Mechanique: could be fun
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ryker Tonic: bleck
Ryker Tonic: bad salad dressing
Enjah Mysterio is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, shall we start?
Sudane Erato: sure..
Sudane Erato: should we record?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, let’s hope it works 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: caht log?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: back again
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have an amazing device that sends you automatic emails with the logs, Dianne…
Dianne Mechanique: cool
Dianne Mechanique: wonders never cease 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *when* it works, it’s amazing 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Sudane Erato: nope
Sudane Erato: won’t stay up here 🙁
Sudane Erato: oh well…
Garnet Psaltery: we could down to the valley
Sudane Erato: we’ll just cip logs, I guess
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Garnet Psaltery: or I coudlk tell you how to cut fog
Sudane Erato: yes, killing the fog is easy
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ctrl-Shift-Alt-Minus
Ryker Tonic: nice sunset
Sudane Erato: if the Debug is on
Dianne Mechanique: it’s very pretty up here
Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: Have we started yet?
Dianne Mechanique: does it snow in this sim?
Eugene Pomeray: no
Eugene Pomeray: we are in our “fall” season
Sudane Erato: complex question 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL, I think we need more tyrannical means to conduct the meeting 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: order!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Sudane Erato: Gwyn, you’re the MC
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, hehe. Just for the sake of argument, yes, we’re planning to change the textures on the sim to reflect the seasons 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the trees as well.
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right 🙂 So we have two things to discuss today…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: One is the upcoming elections.
Sudane Erato: yes
Eugene Pomeray: the expo and elctions
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we start with that one?
Garnet Psaltery: yes
Sudane Erato: yes
Ryker Tonic: May I ask a question?
Eugene Pomeray: sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go ahead, Ryker 🙂
Ryker Tonic: How many residents are there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, good point – that’s one for Sudane.
Sudane Erato: right now there are 13
Ryker Tonic: kk
Eugene Pomeray: 14
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 13, all right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 14?
Dianne Mechanique: how lucky
Eugene Pomeray: oh, whoops
Sudane Erato: and several more, like Dianne, are immeninent
Sudane Erato: SP
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Ryker Tonic: i am trying to recruit
Sudane Erato: great!
Sudane Erato: we’d like maybe 30
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s great 🙂 Yes, 30-40 is our target….
Ryker Tonic: I’ve had several freinds visit over the past few days
Eugene Pomeray: so when do you think is a good time for elections
Dianne Mechanique: may i ask a question?
Eugene Pomeray: sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, currently, our “psychological problem” is that the currently elected body does not really reflect the current resident population 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Dianne Mechanique: how so?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah – well, they have been elected during Phase I.
Sudane Erato: and there are only 2 left active
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which had more people – hmm, around 60 or so – but they didn’t own the land.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm, 4, actually, Sudane – I’m counting with Ulrika and Kendra 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or do you mean at the Government?
Sudane Erato: ahhh, yes, but they are not RA members, subject to election
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that’s correct.
Dianne Mechanique: we are moving up?
Eugene Pomeray is offline
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, if you have bothered to read it, the Constitution does not define how often the Representative Assembly should be re-elected
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither the number of elected members 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: This was deliberate, as the number of people in Neualtenburg change over time…
Sudane Erato: yes
Garnet Psaltery: I can’t see any typing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What the representative Assembly has to do is to set up a date for the elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, garnet? Hmm
Sudane Erato: we lost Eugene
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, this is not going well, lol
Dianne Mechanique: she is still online
Sudane Erato: there is someone down there
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t see Eugene online…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, how does this baloon go downwards without a pilot?
Dianne Mechanique: only he can control the boat?
Ryker Tonic: rofl
Sudane Erato: hehe
Dianne Mechanique: w are too high to fly witthout aid
Sudane Erato: lost in space!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: this was definitely an evil plot to get rid of us 🙂
Sudane Erato: lol
Ryker Tonic: i have jetpacks
Dianne Mechanique: probly a single bomb under one of the seats
Ryker Tonic: if we need to bail
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if Eugene logs in again…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can tp him back…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope 🙁
Ryker Tonic: i worry who’s on the grouns
Ryker Tonic: ground
Dianne Mechanique: should i go and check?
Dianne Mechanique: i wont be able to come back though
Ryker Tonic: one of us should
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can tp you back in, Dianne…
Dianne Mechanique: someone with a carbon rod or somethign
Garnet Psaltery: Sorry I still can’t see anything I’l have to relog
Sudane Erato: maybe we all should
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, lol, I think it’s best 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: somethign happened to my view when eugene logged
Dianne Mechanique: hard to adjsut
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right.
Garnet Psaltery: Oh .. I just set myself not busy and everything cam eup
Dianne Mechanique: sorry
Dianne Mechanique: fell out the moment i stood up
Sudane Erato: hey 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, here we are again 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: yes
Garnet Psaltery: just missign eugene
Dianne Mechanique: there are others around also
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if we’re able to recover the balloon, though…
Dianne Mechanique: druid something
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Sudane Erato: is that kind OK?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s wait for Garnet…
Garnet Psaltery: I’m here
Sudane Erato: shes here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: awww that’s a nice chair
Gwyneth Llewelyn: true, lol – sorry 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: gwyneth is still on busy mode
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m constantly being interrupted 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: being on busy mode makes people disappear and typing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no – I have the History open
Dianne Mechanique: sorry wer you moving this one?
Dianne Mechanique: hello bond
Garnet Psaltery: hello
Bond Harrington: hello, what’s going on?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello Bond 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: meeting
Garnet Psaltery: just starting th emeeting
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, this is an open meeting of the Neualtenburger Representative Assembly.
Bond Harrington: oh. Who do I need to talk to in order to get a plot here?
Dianne Mechanique: all we need is cappucino
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane is the right person for that, Bond 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: and a round table
Sudane Erato: yes, I’m available after the meeting 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although may I suggest afterwards…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Bond Harrington: oh ok
Garnet Psaltery: so .. elections
Sudane Erato: I’ve only got a rectange table
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the easy part – setting a date 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, elections
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The complex part – the proceedings.
Dianne Mechanique: sokay sudane 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: joke
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Has any of you bothered to read the Constitution? 😉
Garnet Psaltery: I did but I’ve forgotten it
Dianne Mechanique: i have but it dont stick so good 🙂
Ryker Tonic shifts uncomfortably in his seat
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I’m going to quote parts of it by heart, my computer is too slow right now to launch it….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: to launch a browser, I mean
Dianne Mechanique: paraphrase it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, basically, you vote for “factions”, not for people
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Factions” are just groups of people that represent a common idea.
Sudane Erato: like parties
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We had a limitation, that the faction number had to be as big as the whole Representative Assembly
Bond Harrington: So, it’s a little like the Westminster parlimament?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, just like parties.
Garnet Psaltery: so what factions are there?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, yes, or like most of the European parliaments….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, we had just 2 registered parties last time….
Sudane Erato: but there are no members of the second one
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And one which *almost* did make it (missed one member, if I remember correctly, to be able to apply)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Sudane.
Garnet Psaltery: what are they called?
Dianne Mechanique: how can it be aparty without members?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we *lost* the members, lol
Dianne Mechanique: after the fact
Sudane Erato: well, the original one started by Ulrika is the SDF
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Sudane Erato: Social Democratic Faction
Garnet Psaltery: ok
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Sudane Erato: its got a statement of purpose somewhere
Dianne Mechanique: on her site
Sudane Erato: on the old site
Garnet Psaltery: I know what it is roughly
Dianne Mechanique: i think
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, you can look it up somewhere from Ulrika’s site.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or from the Neualtenburg forums.
Dianne Mechanique: what is the second one
Dianne Mechanique: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although it must be deeply hidden….
Sudane Erato: what was it called?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the second one, the MPP, right?
Sudane Erato: ah, yes
Dianne Mechanique: silly party?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Headed by Pendari Lorenz, she had a more moderate view.
Dianne Mechanique: i have talked with her a bit
Dianne Mechanique: i konw her
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Sudane Erato: wish we could get her back
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The third one was the Costume Party – lol. As said, they barely got admission to the system.
Dianne Mechanique: she left?
Ryker Tonic: i like the name
Sudane Erato: thats right!
Dianne Mechanique: 🙁
Garnet Psaltery: is a tradition in UK to have a silly party
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, pendari has been active, but just not in Neualtenburg
Dianne Mechanique: canada to
Dianne Mechanique: *too
Sudane Erato: a silly tradition 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Dianne Mechanique: i hardly knwo her
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There wasn’t anything to stop people for doing *any* kind of party.
Eugene Pomeray is online
Gwyneth Llewelyn: basically, if you had enough members, and a group set up for the elections, that was all that was needed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Eugene is back, yes!
Garnet Psaltery: and can thi schange now or not?
Sudane Erato: great!
Sudane Erato: yes, sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course, it *has* to change, since either the MPP or the Costume Party don’t have any members right now 🙁
Dianne Mechanique: costume party?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we *should* have people form new parties.
Eugene Pomeray: hello
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes
Garnet Psaltery: Right so befor elections you need at least one new party?
Sudane Erato: yes, absolutely
Eugene Pomeray: sorry i was having some technicalissue 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, you should – it would be better if we had another one, yes.
Sudane Erato: Eugene, come and sit down
Dianne Mechanique: do the parties declare platforms ahead of their being created?
Dianne Mechanique: wht was the platform or reason d’etre of the german party for instance?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Usually, yes, Dianne – so that they can recruit new members, and be eligible.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: There wasn’t a “german party”, if I remember correctly 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: ohmisnomer
Sudane Erato: I don’t remember one
Dianne Mechanique: i thought yo uwere talking about german party sorry
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: sunded scary a bit
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Dianne Mechanique: lederhosen fo rall
Gwyneth Llewelyn: nooo lol
Sudane Erato: oh no! 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: well it wouldn’t be a good idea to have elections too soon
Garnet Psaltery: if we have to set up parties
Sudane Erato: perhaps 2 weeks?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I was checking if I had a notecard with the manifest of the SDF…. but I think not….
Garnet Psaltery: 4 weeks would eb better
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, I think we need to do this in two steps, as we did last time….
Sudane Erato: OK
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2 weeks for parties to form, 2 weeks for campaining.
Garnet Psaltery: yes
Dianne Mechanique: so there is still a chance to start a party?
Sudane Erato: I just feel that no one is represented now…
Dianne Mechanique: for pendari?
Sudane Erato: so there is some urgency to it
Garnet Psaltery: is there anyoen here about to start a party?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Sudane – but I also think that people should have a bit of time to organize again.
Dianne Mechanique: not I
Eugene Pomeray: i am now on a dialup connection, and sl is very slow,my broadband connection died on me
Eugene Pomeray: 🙁
Dianne Mechanique: i just hought we were talking about the party forming stage as bieing over
Ryker Tonic: wow
Eugene Pomeray: so, i cannot see anything 😛
Sudane Erato: well, perhaps we could do these first elections with one party?
Garnet Psaltery: can you see typing eugne?
Garnet Psaltery: no I think that’s a bad idea
Dianne Mechanique: does not *look* good
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Dianne Mechanique: woud be great to get a second
Garnet Psaltery: I woudl leike to see another choice of party
Sudane Erato: OK
Dianne Mechanique: makes us look like Iran or somethign
Garnet Psaltery: if no-one else dies I’ll do it but nt all that keen
Sudane Erato: lol
Dianne Mechanique: but nothign anit-democratica aobut it
Dianne Mechanique: if other parties do not happen to form
Sudane Erato: well, doesn’t there need to be a real difference of opinion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, last time we had a few radical groups 🙂 Nothing wrong with that, if they comply with the rules….
Dianne Mechanique: would be nice
Sudane Erato: for there to be another party
Garnet Psaltery: yes and new poeple now who didn’t have a chance before
Sudane Erato: thats true
Eugene Pomeray: i am thinking of creating a poarty
Ryker Tonic: with only one party, is there a need for elections…if we can only vote for factions?
Dianne Mechanique: perhaps garnet and I could start the hankerchief on the head party or somethign
Dianne Mechanique: just for show
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Ryker, there was a slight twist…
Garnet Psaltery: please don’t mwntion the hanky
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just to clarify this briefly….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The elections were a double-vote thingy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: All citizens voted for a faction.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But all “party members” also voted on the party leader
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, they had to select the order they preferred for their own party….
Sudane Erato: thats right
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, like the Australian system, if I remember correctly?
Sudane Erato: I’m beginning to remember 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: can thi sbe doen in 2 weeks?
Ryker Tonic: seems like overkill for 13 people
Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH yes – the election proper was done on a weekend, we have all the software thingies that do that.
Sudane Erato: well, it will be a bit overkill
Eugene Pomeray: i must go, the lag is killing me 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, poor Eugene.
Sudane Erato: but, its the structure for the future
Garnet Psaltery: sorry aboutt hat eugene
Dianne Mechanique: eugene is running is he not?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll get you a transcript, Eugene….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And he said so, Dianne, so I expect he will 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, I’m sure…
Dianne Mechanique: saw a poster
Garnet Psaltery: well as I said I’llset one up ifn o-one else does
Eugene Pomeray: can some one “represent me”? i will right via email
Eugene Pomeray: *write
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Eugene
Garnet Psaltery: Bon dis neutral at th emoment
Garnet Psaltery: not having bough tin yet
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point 🙂
Bond Harrington: Yeah, I’m just fascinated by all this, and a bit overwhelmed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes
Ryker Tonic: lol
Eugene Pomeray: before i go, i have a marketstall for the expo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes? Great, Eugene 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, great!
Ryker Tonic: when is the expo?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, that’s the second point to discuss, hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should finish the “elections” item first.
Ryker Tonic: sorry
Garnet Psaltery: I propose we set a date 4 weeks from now for elections
Ryker Tonic: to get ahead
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I would agree with that, Garnet.
Dianne Mechanique: second
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And let people start to post on the forums
Ryker Tonic has a short attnetion span.
Sudane Erato: Sunday July 26
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ideas and suggestions for parties, etc.
Dianne Mechanique: what about party forming period?
Dianne Mechanique: is extended?
Dianne Mechanique: or over?
Eugene Pomeray: i’m a way that day 🙁
Garnet Psaltery: 2 weeks to form and 2 to campaign
Dianne Mechanique: right
Garnet Psaltery: when are you here?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Something like that, Garnet
Sudane Erato: Eugene, you can do a write-in ballet
Dianne Mechanique: i would like to see this “write-in ballet”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Eugene, will you be here on the 25th? We’ll definitely will have an extended period for the elections….
Dianne Mechanique: 😉
Eugene Pomeray: behind me is the market stall
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it looks good, Eugene 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: excellent
Dianne Mechanique: wht is the expo?
Garnet Psaltery: I have to go in 10minutes
Eugene Pomeray: 29th
Ryker Tonic: of June?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right – ok, we could do the voting period from the 25th to the 29th….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: July.
Ryker Tonic: kk
Garnet Psaltery: agreed
Eugene Pomeray: ok 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: thanks 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, another thing we should discuss a bit….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: How many members on the Rep. Assembly?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Last time we had 7
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that’s way too many for the current population.
Eugene Pomeray: 5
Garnet Psaltery: 3 is a good number
Dianne Mechanique: is it not in the constitution or somethign?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Our idea was, having around 10% of the people in office…. we had 60 members, so….
Dianne Mechanique: defined number or ratio?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Dianne. It’s deliberately not fixed….
Dianne Mechanique: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless there was a change and I missed it, lol
Sudane Erato: no 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I don’t think so 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: 5 is good
Eugene Pomeray: ulrika sugested that
Garnet Psaltery: we are only likely to hit up to 30 in next few weeks so 3 woudl eb good
Ryker Tonic: 10 percent of 13 would be 1.3
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, 5 also means that each party will *need* 5 members.
Dianne Mechanique: unevennumbe obviously
Eugene Pomeray: i am representing ulrika and aliasi for the meeting today hehe
Dianne Mechanique: and three smells like a troika or somethign
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Ryker, 1.3 members will simply not work 🙂 🙂
Sudane Erato: hehe
Ryker Tonic: would simplify meetings though
Dianne Mechanique: i would say three or five
Dianne Mechanique: but leaning to fiv
Dianne Mechanique: e
Sudane Erato: getting the .3 wouldn’t
Ryker Tonic: one memebr, plus one whos only paying attnetion a third of the time
Eugene Pomeray: how about 4
Sudane Erato: yes, 5 would be good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, should we settle at 5? I *know* that most meetings will only have 2-3 people around anyway 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: what about ties?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4 is an even number 🙂
Ryker Tonic: need an odd number
Sudane Erato: the biggest problem we have found is attrition
Garnet Psaltery: ok I vot for 5
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Sudane.
Dianne Mechanique: four and a random number generator
Ryker Tonic: 5 is good
Eugene Pomeray: sure 5 sounds good
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, so 5 it is 🙂
Sudane Erato: our first decision!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Garnet Psaltery: yay!
Dianne Mechanique: yay!
Dianne Mechanique: we decided!
Eugene Pomeray: yay
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Bond Harrington: 5 could work. It would allow for a majority-minority split in the faction
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, that would be the idea, Bond.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Last time we had 4 members for the SDF, and 3 for the MPP…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was a close vote 🙂
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Ryker Tonic: I think we should have a MOFO party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, do we need to discuss this further?
Garnet Psaltery: only one question
Dianne Mechanique: MOFO?
Ryker Tonic: in honor of the TX governor
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can offer to set up a few informal meetings, announced on Events, to explain a bit about the proceedings…
Ryker Tonic: who said to a reporter this week
Ryker Tonic: adios mofo
Garnet Psaltery: who needs to be notified of a new party?
Dianne Mechanique: hmmm
Dianne Mechanique: short for somethign dirty i guess?
Ryker Tonic: yes
Bond Harrington: Captain Goodhair said that?
Sudane Erato: well, best to start a thread on the forum
Ryker Tonic: yes
Dianne Mechanique: i shall no say it
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: serious question here
Ryker Tonic: he thought the camera was off
Dianne Mechanique: camera?
Sudane Erato: a thread on the forum…
Ryker Tonic: tv camera
Dianne Mechanique: i am not weraing makeup
Garnet Psaltery: ogh good
Sudane Erato: announcing the new party
Ryker Tonic: sorry to digress
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, let’s go back to the meeting, please 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Garnet Psaltery: sorry it’s just that I haven’t go tmuch time
Sudane Erato: and inviting discussion of the issues
Eugene Pomeray: i am thinking of starting a party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So yes, we’ll have some threads on the forums for specific announcements for new parties….
Sudane Erato: then, at election time..
Dianne Mechanique: great
Eugene Pomeray: ok 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eugene, you should start yours 🙂 hehe
Dianne Mechanique: process for application is written down somewher?
Eugene Pomeray: 😉
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Dianne – it was a bit more informal, I think.
Dianne Mechanique: ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: You just need to create a group…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And the groups that had the necessary amount of people were considered eligible.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, we had announcements for 5 or 6 parties….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or even more, I don’t rememeber.
Dianne Mechanique: what is necessary amount?
Dianne Mechanique: five?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But only two were eligible – ie. more than 7 members at that time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: because you could win the elections with all the votes, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and make sure you have enough members for that 🙂
Sudane Erato: we’ll have to be in more than one party for that to work
Garnet Psaltery: I’m sorry Ihave to go. May I have transcript of rest of metting please?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, sure.
Dianne Mechanique: aww!
Garnet Psaltery: Thank you.
Dianne Mechanique: bye garnet 🙂
Garnet Psaltery: Bye
bye Garnet: (via Eugene Pomeray))
Ryker Tonic: nice meeting you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I’m thinking, Sudane…. if we have 14 members, we’ll be able to have enough for 2 parties at least.
Sudane Erato: by Garnet.. tahnks for coming!
Bond Harrington: bye
Eugene Pomeray: yes!
Sudane Erato: yes, 2 parties
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The SDF still has 4 members 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: only four?
Sudane Erato: but, I’m hearing more
Dianne Mechanique: surprised
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well, theoretically, yes, only 4.
Sudane Erato: only 4 still active
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest of the members haven’t said if they would be owning shares in Neualtenburg on this Phase II
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, they do not count.
Sudane Erato: right
Sudane Erato: thats the new membership criteria
Eugene Pomeray: should we go on to our next subject?
Dianne Mechanique: are here any demographics on the residents such as they currently are?
Eugene Pomeray: (yay lag died down)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I think so, Eugene
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah I’m glad to hear it!
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Sudane Erato: I’ll share with you what I have Dianne
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dianne, the site www.neualtenburg.org has a partial listing of all plots sold.
Sudane Erato: right
Dianne Mechanique: i am just cruious as to how german the residents are
Dianne Mechanique: or not
Dianne Mechanique: or whatever
Sudane Erato: actually, its getting to be a good listing
Dianne Mechanique: i have no concept of the populace here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I think I’m actually the only half-German around, lol
Ryker Tonic: i am
Ryker Tonic: half
Ryker Tonic: half French
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes – so 1 and 1/2 🙂
Sudane Erato: if I am, I deny it 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: i have german ancestry
Ryker Tonic: its why I am co conflicted
Dianne Mechanique: but english citizen
Sudane Erato: lol
Dianne Mechanique: lviing in canada
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Dianne 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, we *could* do a poll on the forums, if you’re interested, Dianne…
Dianne Mechanique: not *that* interested
Ryker Tonic: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol ok
Dianne Mechanique: i just think the bavarian them
Dianne Mechanique: lends a certain somthig
Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
Dianne Mechanique: and wanted to know if the residents really reflected it i gues
Sudane Erato: ahh, yes
Ryker Tonic: I drink beer
Dianne Mechanique: hehe
Ryker Tonic: does that qualify?
Dianne Mechanique: i am drunk now
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I think it had two reasons – one was Ulrika and Kendra having been in Rothenburg, and wanting to recreate the environment….
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And secondly, there was no other Bavarian-themed sim at that time…
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: a great lack to be sure
Eugene Pomeray: there still isn’t
Dianne Mechanique: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, well, there are a few buildings which are “inspired”, but yes, you’re right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok….
Eugene Pomeray: well if this is succesfull we may have another sim 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we move to the Expo?
Dianne Mechanique: it is a good job to my mind
Dianne Mechanique: on recreating the feeling of the place
Dianne Mechanique: not htat i have been thre
Eugene Pomeray: in a different thme
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Bond Harrington: Well, I’m not sure what Ulrika had in mind, but it sure does give off that atmosphere of 1600s-1700s Bavaria, which spawned freethinking and republicianism, and the Illuminati, et al
Sudane Erato: yes
Dianne Mechanique: yes the details of the recreation do not ocunt really
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol yes, well, Bond 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok… the Expo….
Eugene Pomeray: yay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we should let Eugene talk a bit first, since he has proposed it…
Sudane Erato: great!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only major event we did once was the “Oktoberfest” last year.
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Eugene Pomeray: i was thinking of a neualtenburg expo, i was thinking art to help the MoMA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: now to become a MoCA 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes to help the MoCA 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 😉
Ryker Tonic: I like MoCA java
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And also to attract new people to visit, and eventually to invite them to own a share as well…
Sudane Erato: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: so each artist gets a booth (or share a fachwerk)?
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, what will really excite people?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, it will be an Art Expo, right, Eugene? That’s your idea?
Dianne Mechanique: art show?
Eugene Pomeray: it can be any kind..
Ryker Tonic: real art?
Eugene Pomeray: but i think art will be the best for now
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sl art?
Ryker Tonic: original?
Dianne Mechanique: i do life drawings
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we could start with the Art idea.
Eugene Pomeray: sl art
Dianne Mechanique: pendari was going to put some in her gallery
Dianne Mechanique: but we need more thatn an art dhow i tink
Gwyneth Llewelyn: original makes sense. Or else, we’ll have copyright issues 🙁
Sudane Erato: neat Dianne
Dianne Mechanique: for good expo
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Bond Harrington: ooh, yeah, original art
Sudane Erato: yes, perhaps
Eugene Pomeray: kendra is offering a rennaisnce fair 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh?
Eugene Pomeray: *rennaisance
Dianne Mechanique: who is kendra?
Eugene Pomeray: yes in altenburg 🙂
Ryker Tonic: where is altenberg?
Eugene Pomeray: kendra is one of the architects of the city
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kendra is currently the leader of the Guild 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: ah
Eugene Pomeray: right next to your house, ryker
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Altenberg is … yes, lol, right
Ryker Tonic: ??
Sudane Erato: the other town square
Ryker Tonic: ah
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, the “Old town” square 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Near the gates.
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Ryker Tonic: kk
Bond Harrington: BTW, has anyone heard when the HTML-on-prim stuff is going to be added? It could help the MoCA if paintings were hosted off site and presented in the musemum and on a website at the same time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only on 1.7, Bond.
Eugene Pomeray: yes hehe
Sudane Erato: later in July?
Dianne Mechanique: 1.7 but static only
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, end of July.
Dianne Mechanique: no active web pages
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps on our *next* Expo 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes!
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But first we have to put this one up and running 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: so where will it be?
Dianne Mechanique: i thik that if people came here for party
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes. Place.
Dianne Mechanique: they would expect beer
Sudane Erato: right here!
Dianne Mechanique: because of the bavarian thing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Beer, we have 😀
Dianne Mechanique: so any expo
Sudane Erato: yes
Dianne Mechanique: has to be partialy octoberfest
Ryker Tonic: music?
Dianne Mechanique: perhaps
Dianne Mechanique: or look like it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Music, I can get a DJ, but he’ll do mostly German Hard Rock 🙂
Ryker Tonic: lol
Dianne Mechanique: lots of peole are older
Eugene Pomeray: locations: marktplatz, empty fachwerks, MoCA, altenburg?
Dianne Mechanique: you could do kraftwerk or somethign
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, location first ….
Ryker Tonic: who can have a booth?
Sudane Erato: location should be here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The *only* problem with the Marktplatz is really “lag”
Sudane Erato: even tho it is said to be laggy
Eugene Pomeray: would that be enough space?
Dianne Mechanique: these are locations in neualtenberg?
Ryker Tonic: how bout the valley?
Eugene Pomeray: neualtenburg should have it’s own “booth”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, i don’t think we’ll have *tons* of people exhibiting art – from what the Montmartre group is doing, they get perhaps 10-12 people.
Eugene Pomeray: that could work
Sudane Erato: well, we could do in the valley
Dianne Mechanique: how about other booths
Dianne Mechanique: like a country fair
Dianne Mechanique: kissing booth etc.
Sudane Erato: but here is more a promotion of our group
Dianne Mechanique: dunking booth
Sudane Erato: hehe, a dunking booth
Ryker Tonic: if its close
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe well – if we’re able to script those, yes, they would be cool, Dianne 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: dunk Ulrika
Dianne Mechanique: very popular
Dianne Mechanique: 😉
Ryker Tonic: we could invite people to the expo and then direct them to tour the city
Sudane Erato: lol
Eugene Pomeray: they had that at the touchstone fair 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ryker: we can always set up a in-sim teleporter.
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Ryker Tonic: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And they’ll always see the Marktplatz first.
Eugene Pomeray: so how about this…
Ryker Tonic: yes
Ryker Tonic: and less lag
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I prefer an “open air” fair…. for several reasons….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lag, yes, that’s the major one-.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s also easier to navigate around the booths….
Eugene Pomeray: altenburg – rennaisance fair, marktplatz – art show, rathaus – neualtenburg “museum” and info
Ryker Tonic: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah hmm
Sudane Erato: that sounds good
Dianne Mechanique: where is the museum going?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, an Expo all around the sim, hmm.
Dianne Mechanique: thats good
Bond Harrington: yeah, that works
Dianne Mechanique: makes peple walk around
Gwyneth Llewelyn: The museum is on a hill near the Marktplatz
Dianne Mechanique: mybe it could be no fly for the day
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, we could do that, Dianne 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Sudane Erato: can we make it no fly? I’m not sure
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although there should be teleporters for people to navigate across the exhibits….
Dianne Mechanique: just a thought
Dianne Mechanique: it has its own problem
Eugene Pomeray: the roads can be no fly
Dianne Mechanique: s
Ryker Tonic: whats the advantage of no fly?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Sudane, we can – just check the Church, it’s no fly already 🙂
Bond Harrington: no, I agree, we want people to take in the expo
Sudane Erato: ahhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Advantage? People need to take more time to see stuff, hehe
Dianne Mechanique: the elves do no fly a lot
Eugene Pomeray: yes true
Bond Harrington: if they fly, then they miss out on lots of stuff
Ryker Tonic: but will it frustrate them>
Dianne Mechanique: and it is frustrating at first
Dianne Mechanique: but yo get used to it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Disadvantage, of course, is that everything takes longer to visit….
Ryker Tonic: yes
Ryker Tonic: if it were me
Ryker Tonic: i might visit, not be able to fly and tp out
Eugene Pomeray: we would have tps though
Bond Harrington: I agree we probably need in-sim tps
Dianne Mechanique: yes we would lkely lose some
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’d say, we have a compromise, just the parts which have something to show could be no-fly, and you would be able to teleport or fly from place to place.
Dianne Mechanique: depends apon their demeanor and ow hey are feelgn that day likely
Ryker Tonic: and people might think this is no fly sim all the time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: teleports are ok, lol
Eugene Pomeray: true
Ryker Tonic: people would have to read the signs
Bond Harrington: let them know when thy come in
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the signs can be used as teleporters 🙂
Ryker Tonic: the people i have brought here to visit are often not sophisicated sl users
Eugene Pomeray: hm, how about this …
Bond Harrington: Yeah, nobody reads the signs at the public sandboxes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, good point, Bond. Yes.
Dianne Mechanique: if we could make people do it
Eugene Pomeray: at the end of the show, we have an art auction! :
Eugene Pomeray: )
Dianne Mechanique: it would be to their adantage
Dianne Mechanique: i have been here afew times
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah I like that, Eugene!
Sudane Erato: yes, me too!
Dianne Mechanique: but did not “see” it until i walked the streets
Dianne Mechanique: on foot
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true, Dianne.
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, this would be something to discuss at the Rep.Assembly, if we should do the “inner city” all no-fly.
Dianne Mechanique: hello markie
Sudane Erato: yes, its been mentioned
Markie Macdonald: hi
Ryker Tonic: does that mean no baloons?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi there Markie 🙂
Markie Macdonald: sorry, just being nosey… u mind?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah no, Ryker the baloons work independently.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, no, this is an open meeting, Markie 🙂
Ryker Tonic: good
Dianne Mechanique: I am ignorant
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually, you can fly over no-fly zones 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: can you get around a no fly with an attachment?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s only when you land on them, you can’t fly again.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, Dianne, you should be able to do that.
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to do some testing, but I think it’s possible.
Eugene Pomeray: we could have taeke off locations
Eugene Pomeray: *take off
Dianne Mechanique: so the clever amoungst us wont suffer
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Dianne Mechanique: to walk imean
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, Dianne, hehe
Eugene Pomeray: some lots that are dedicated to “take off”
Ryker Tonic: not to be contrary but there is a visitor…and they immediately are flying
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, that’s correct Ryker….
Ryker Tonic: i am open
Ryker Tonic: to whatever
Ryker Tonic: though
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, as said – this will be only a “temporary measure” during the Expo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And probably just for the places where there is something happening.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: the rest will be “fly” as usual.
Ryker Tonic: sometimes though i have the feeling that this community is not open as it could be to real noobies
Dianne Mechanique: you could have atour
Dianne Mechanique: with a sign
Dianne Mechanique: “walk the old city”
Dianne Mechanique: or somethign
Dianne Mechanique: taek peole by the hand sorta
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Dianne Mechanique: there wuold have to be somethign worthwhile to discover though
Dianne Mechanique: on the tour
Eugene Pomeray: with notecards on the way
Eugene Pomeray: explaining the important builds
Sudane Erato: 🙂 our whole city is worthwhile 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: yes the church etc.
Dianne Mechanique: pints of interest
Dianne Mechanique: *points
Eugene Pomeray: yes hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes, the old plan of the Tourist Office…. a group of people willing to prepare some information 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I admit I volunteered for that last year, when I had some free time – lol
Eugene Pomeray: i will help 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sadly, I can’t do that right now 🙁
Sudane Erato: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, no help from me for that, Eugene 🙁
Sudane Erato: Eugene is a great tour guide!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true!
Sudane Erato: so, do we have the info we need for the expo?
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I think we should nominate Eugene as the Master of the Tourism Office 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: yay!
Sudane Erato: definitely!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we have to pick a spot in the valley for the booths….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: As for Altenburg, Kendra will deal with it by herself, I imagine…
Sudane Erato: OK
Eugene Pomeray: hehe aww 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: eugene already has some booths, lol, so that’s also settled 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, a date!
Sudane Erato: good
Sudane Erato: yes
Dianne Mechanique: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I can help out with the in-sim teleporters)
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Eugene Pomeray: how about hte modern ara
Sudane Erato: should the date be the same as the elections?
Eugene Pomeray: *area
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And, hmm, yes, I can get one of the best DJs around, for some German Hard Rock, at least for a few hours 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oooh that would be clever, Sudane!!
Sudane Erato: be quite dramatic
Eugene Pomeray: yes hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And campaigning on the streets while people are running around with beer steins and the chicken hat – heheheh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Devious 😉
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sudane Erato: well, we’d be voting
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, it certainly would bring everybody here for the voting booth. That’s true…
Eugene Pomeray: we could have the boths in the mediveval sction or the modern section
Sudane Erato: is campaigning allowed during voting?
Eugene Pomeray: both are flat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. I don’t remember, Sudane.
Eugene Pomeray: how about right across the bridge
Ryker Tonic: drinking and voting go well together
Dianne Mechanique: it might be difficult to restrict it
Sudane Erato: lol, yes Ryker
Dianne Mechanique: nt the sam as RL
Dianne Mechanique: that way
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm, so you would be able to see the city from there – that would be an idea, Eugene
Sudane Erato: hmmm
Sudane Erato: you’d want to watch to put booths and such on city land
Eugene Pomeray: yes 🙂
Sudane Erato: or else there might be some prim overload…
Sudane Erato: with embarassing results 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Sudane Erato: any unsold land will do
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, yes.
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Dianne Mechanique: will there be dancing?
Dianne Mechanique: ro club type environs??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless we become suddenly very successfull in selling all the remaining land, I think we’ll have enough to spare for 1-12 booths…
Sudane Erato: yes 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: but it is hilly, so woul dwe have platforms?
Dianne Mechanique: nice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dianne : yes, that was also my suggestion, I was not joking about the DJ 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: ah
Dianne Mechanique: i made that big glas ball in the pride celebration
Dianne Mechanique: that the dance floor was int
Dianne Mechanique: i could make ssomethign similar
Sudane Erato: neat!
Eugene Pomeray: we could have a live “band” plaing
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, I missed that!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm Eugene – what do you mean? Avatars animated, or a band using a streaming server?
Eugene Pomeray: avatars animated
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah right.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, hmm, Dyonius Blanc (I think that’s his name) has some wonderful stuff that way…
Bond Harrington: playing a polka?
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that Dyo’s animations are more appropriate for a jazz or rock band, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless Ulrika had some time for doing more animations….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But she’s having her baby 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes, that will be just about the time
Dianne Mechanique: ulrika has a baby?
Sudane Erato: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
Eugene Pomeray: should we charge artisans to put their art in the booths or make it free?
Sudane Erato: early August
Sudane Erato: make it free
Sudane Erato: we want as many people as possible for this
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah. make it free, Eugene. But we could split the amount of the auctioned items 🙂
Sudane Erato: wide open celebration!
Eugene Pomeray: yes, that’s what i wasthinkingas well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Makes more sense to me.
Ryker Tonic: is an auction the best bet?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I like the idea, Ryker, although I wouldn’t just rely on the auction
Eugene Pomeray: yes 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Eventually, allow the artists to sell their stuff….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, we could apply our sales tax 😉
Eugene Pomeray: hehe
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although I imagine we would scare many off….
Sudane Erato: we could, but the sales tax issue we need to discuss in RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Hmm. Ok, so, it’ll be tax free 🙂
Sudane Erato: I think better for now
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree.
Eugene Pomeray: well neualtenburg items will sell well that day 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I suppose so, Eugene. You’re right.
Dianne Mechanique: image is everything
Dianne Mechanique: when yo uare starting out
Sudane Erato: yes, exactly
Dianne Mechanique: this will be many peoples first look at the place
Gwyneth Llewelyn: True.
Dianne Mechanique: so no tax
Eugene Pomeray: we could sell “rennains costume s in altenbrug :”)
Sudane Erato: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, that’s an agreement, then 🙂
Sudane Erato: yes
Dianne Mechanique: can you purchase bavarian costumes here
Dianne Mechanique: like “tracht” or whatever?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, that’s a good question, Dianne 🙂
Sudane Erato: Eugene has many!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And dirndls 🙂
Dianne Mechanique: yes
Eugene Pomeray: no, but we can make that possible
Dianne Mechanique: people like to dress up
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pendari has done some lederhosen….
Dianne Mechanique: i cheap german costumery availablecould be fun
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Eugene Pomeray: and extra income 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we have to see who has those available…
Dianne Mechanique: i am just throeing out ideas
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can ask Pendari about hers…
Dianne Mechanique: i have n time to make them myself
Bond Harrington: Does anyone sell woven pigtails or hair knots?
Eugene Pomeray: vindi vindaloo
Dianne Mechanique: i am new too
Dianne Mechanique: i have yet to make much of anything
Dianne Mechanique: but my house
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 🙂
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well Eugene, do you know Vindi?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you think she would be willing to do some dresses for us?
Eugene Pomeray: we could split the price?
Eugene Pomeray: that may work 🙂
Ryker Tonic: she does good stuff
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could, yes…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And she certainly does, lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Eugene Pomeray: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We *could* set up a competition for German-style clothing 😉
Eugene Pomeray: we could have Darkdharma help us as well
Dianne Mechanique: when is expo again>?
Dianne Mechanique: how long from now?
Sudane Erato: 4 weeks
Eugene Pomeray: iyes that is a good idea
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, sadly, the only clothes designers I know, wouldn’t be very willing to “split costs”…. 🙁
Dianne Mechanique: fairly short time faem
Dianne Mechanique: *frame
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I think it’s enough…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless, of course, we expect hundreds of new items and dresses etc.
Eugene Pomeray: when is that?
Sudane Erato: brb
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Eugene, Sudane suggested doing the Expo during the election days 🙂
Eugene Pomeray: i will be away 🙁
Eugene Pomeray: i think
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah right…. 🙁 🙁
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, should we postpone that on the following weekend, then?
Eugene Pomeray: a week after the elections?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm right. I’d say, postpone both…
Eugene Pomeray: ah the weekedn after elections
Eugene Pomeray: 30 and 31
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What about having both on 30 and 31?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Elections + Expo?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, Eugene will be around….
Sudane Erato: back… needed coffee
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Sudane
Eugene Pomeray: that shounds good
Dianne Mechanique: is there anythign left on the agenda?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane, because Eugene is away, we’re thinking of postponing both the Expo and the Elections on the next weekend….
Ryker Tonic: i have one trivial matter
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please, Ryker…
Sudane Erato: OK great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I also think we should have a “comittee” for organizing the Expo.
Eugene Pomeray:
Ryker Tonic: there is smoke shooting through my house from a device next door
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh?
Ryker Tonic: yes
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s perhaps one of the chimneys?
Eugene Pomeray: sorry to be away during a crucial time
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or something left by someone…
Ryker Tonic: ill have to go look
Sudane Erato: yes, lets examine it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm, I’ll come with you…
Bond Harrington: fireplace?
Sudane Erato: if its garbage, we can delete it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
Sudane Erato: if its a chimney…
Sudane Erato: well,, maybe we can tweak the particle gen
Ryker Tonic: its lower than a chimney
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we have to take a look
Dianne Mechanique: i think i have to go
Ryker Tonic: ty
Dianne Mechanique: RL calling…
Bond Harrington: Hmm, yeah it could be a improperly scripted fireplace.
Sudane Erato: Dianne, I’ll see you later
Eugene Pomeray: ok, dianne thanks for coming
Bond Harrington: bye Dianne
Dianne Mechanique: is it okay if i leve?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nice to have met you, Dianne
Ryker Tonic: Noce meeting you Dianne
Dianne Mechanique: i think we have discussed most of it
Ryker Tonic: *nice
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I think we can safely adjourn the meeting for today.
Eugene Pomeray: bye Dianne
Ryker Tonic: Eugene…did you recover your balloon?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: And post it on the forums….
Dianne Mechanique: nice to meet all of you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhhh right, the ballooon!!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, let me get a copy of the transcript…
Eugene Pomeray: not yethehe