RA Journals – 16th Assembly

Representative Assembly Minutes & Transcripts

Per Representative Assembly procedures, all meetings are recorded and transcripts posted for public review. The following are the transcripts for R.A. meetings for the 16th Assembly.

16th Representative Assembly

RA Meeting 17 March 2012

Agenda for RA meeting of March 17, 2012

– Administrative Business
— Review and approve agenda (5 min.)
— Speakers on today’s agenda items? (5 min)
– Citizen Concerns (5 min)
– RA Members’ Concerns (5 min)
– Old Business
– New Business
— Proposals regarding citizenship qualifications (Pat) (15 min)
the text of the proposed legislation may be found here:
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3609&p=19551#p19540
– Commission Reports (5 min)
– Executive Report (10 min)
– General Announcements (5 min)
– Next RA Meeting? (5 min)
– Adjourn

Summary

1. The RA voted to reform CDS Citizenship rules following the Citizenship Transparency Commission. The Bill, as passed, is here. Briefly, ‘group’, ‘sponsor’ and ‘partner’ citizenship are abolished and citizenship derives from land ownership (at least one plot) and being current in tier payments (for at least one plot). Anyone affected by this change is encouraged to purchase one of the many lots for sale in the CDS to maintain their citizenship.

Ayes – Anna, Patroklus, Rosie, Shep. Beathan has a 7-day vote.

2. The RA received brief reports from the Expansion Commission and the Chancellor.

3. The RA agreed to meet again on 31 March 2012.


Shep Titian: ok .. lets start
Rosie Gray: Did Anna say she might not make it?
Patroklus Murakami: the one in the box is out of date
Shep Titian: Ah ok
Patroklus Murakami: i made a revision today following feedback on the forums. but we can sort that out when we get to it :-)
Shep Titian: :)
Shep Titian: Ok Anna thought she may be a little late and asked me to start off
Shep Titian: So have you all read the agenda and approve it?
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Shep Titian: Ah she’s online
Rosie Gray: I haven’t read the Agenda yet
Shep Titian: lol .. might I politely suggest you do :)
Rosie Gray: lol
Rosie Gray: hello Anna
Patroklus Murakami: hi anna
Shep Titian: Hi Anna .. we barely began
Anna Toussaint: crap
Anna Toussaint: hi everyone
Shep Titian: teehee
Trebor Warcliffe: Hi Anna
Rosie Gray: hi Calli
Shep Titian: Hi Calli
Callipygian Christensen: *yawn* morning
Patroklus Murakami: hi calli
Anna Toussaint: Pat, would you pass everyone that notecard with your updated proposals?
Patroklus Murakami: yes, will do
Anna Toussaint: Hi Treb, Calli
Anna Toussaint: thanks
Anna Toussaint: the latest agenda is in the box, along with an older version of Pat’s proposals
Shep Titian: Treb Calli and I got your destination notice done
Patroklus Murakami: done
Trebor Warcliffe: Awesome
Rosie Gray: quick work, Shep
Trebor Warcliffe: This group is awesome
Trebor Warcliffe: the music group on the media, sorry
Anna Toussaint: ok, let’s get started
Anna Toussaint: any additions, subtractions or gripes about the agenda?
Rosie Gray: looks fine to me
Shep Titian: nope none
Patroklus Murakami: fine by me
Anna Toussaint: let’s approve by acclamation?
Anna Toussaint: hehe
Anna Toussaint: it’s 11 here
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: has anybody heard from Beathan?
Shep Titian: Nope
Patroklus Murakami: no
Anna Toussaint: well, I declare that 7 dlay vote rules apply unless he shows :)
Patroklus Murakami: ok
Anna Toussaint: Pat is here to speak to his proposals
Rosie Gray nods
Callipygian Christensen has indicated consent to be recorded.
Anna Toussaint: Shep, will you send out a group notice reminding folks of this meeting?
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: Any citizen concerns?
Anna Toussaint: seeing nothing,
Anna Toussaint: any RA member’s concerns?
Shep Titian: Will do Anna
Anna Toussaint: thanks :)
Patroklus Murakami: none from me
Anna Toussaint: rosie?
Rosie Gray: no concerns
Anna Toussaint: shep?
Rosie Gray: ?
Anna Toussaint: cooooool
Anna Toussaint: no old business, no on to pat’s proposals
Anna Toussaint: pat?
Anna Toussaint: damn lag
Patroklus Murakami: shall i post them for the transcript?
Anna Toussaint: thanks, Shep!
Anna Toussaint: yes
Anna Toussaint: go ahead
Patroklus Murakami: Bill #1: Citizenship Establishment
Preamble
CDSL 13-10, Citizenship Bill, attempted to define more precisely the link between citizenship and land established as a fundamental principle in the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators (CDS) in its Article VI ? Citizenship, by establishing guidelines on how to incorporate the citizenship grant made to citizens who used previous laws to become citizens without a direct relationship with land ownership.
However, in subsequent events, it was made clear that the extraordinary amount of legislation covering all possible cases for citizenship complicated the establishment of an official List of Citizens as per the requirements of NL 5-15, Citizen Information Act. As a result, this list is rarely updated and requires individual validation of each and every member on the list.
Therefore, this bill provides a new and easier method to validate citizenship by keeping to the guidelines set forth in the Constitution.
Patroklus Murakami: 1. “Granting title to land” is henceforward defined as being listed as the sole proprietor of a parcel of land, as shown by the About Land tool (or whatever technological feature of the official Second Life Viewer shows the ownership of a parcel).
2. Citizens shall be entitled to vote in CDS elections and/or stand for office if, on the date set by the Scientific Council in accordance with the Constitution for this purpose, they own at least one parcel of land and are current in their tier payments for at least one parcel. A citizen shall be an individual avatar whose name appears on both the Hippo list as being current in the tier payments and on a list of current parcel owners.
3. Private land can optionally be set (but not deeded) to any group, but that does not entitle any member of the group a grant to the title of the land. Mistakenly deeded land should be reverted, optionally with the assistance from the Estate Owner or any similar role with the appropriate land management powers.
4. Public land, or
Patroklus Murakami: 4. Public land, or land owned by organisations incorporated in the CDS, can be deeded to a group. As per the previous article, this does not grant members of the group any title to the land.
5. “Sponsored locations” in the terms previously defined under CDSL 13-10 are abolished. Land set or deeded to groups under the provision of CDSL 13-10 will revert to public land status and claimed by the appropriate land management group set by Government for the region.
6. Citizenship derived solely through membership of a group or through being the partner of a CDS citizen is hereby abolished.
7. Membership in any “waiting list” for acquisition of a first parcel in the CDS, to be sold by Government as soon as new regions or parcels are opened for sale, does not confer citizenship status to those members, since it does not effectively confer grant title to land.
Patroklus Murakami: 8. Any citizen that loses their citizenship status due to the passage of this bill is encouraged to purchase a parcel of land in the CDS and shall be entitled to [a waiver of the land ownership/transfer cost/a discount purchase price of $L/sq m], only in the case that the parcel bought is the property of the CDS Government, and only for the first parcel purchased under this provision. Any citizen purchasing a parcel through the provisions of this Act will only be permitted to sell the parcel back to the CDS Government for the price paid.
9. [Citizens losing their status due to the revocation of CDSL 13-10, when buying their first parcel of land in the CDS, will have priority in applying for any paid Civil Service role (under the provision of NL 5-7, Civil Service Act, and subsequent legislation), in case any such new role is announced or an existing role has a vacancy, provided that the candidate has the adequate competences and skills required to apply for that role.]
Patroklus Murakami: Bill #2: Citizenship membership publication for election purposes
Preamble
It is the law of the CDS that citizens must hold the title to their land for more than 28 days, and have tier payed in full to qualify to vote or to run for office. However, due to the complexities of the electoral calendar, the validation of that requirement is unnecessarily complicated.
The Citizen List shall be the certified list of CDS citizens eligible to run for office or vote in CDS Elections. The Citizen List will be created in the following manner:
Patroklus Murakami: 1. At 12 noon on the dates designated by the Scientific Council, the Estate Manager or his or her designate, will generate both a Hippo list of tier payors and a Land Scanner list of parcel owners. They will then compare these two lists to determine that a given name appears on both lists, and that that given name is current in at least one parcel tier payment. The Estate Manager or his or her designate will use these lists to create one list of the citizens who are qualified to run for office or vote, the Citizen List. (In the event that the upgrade to the Land Scanner is not available in time for the generation of the Citizen List for the June 2012 elections, the Hippo List alone will be used).
2. Within 24 hours this List will be delivered to the Chancellor, who will publish the List on the CDS Forums, by notecard to the SL group ‘CDS’, by notecard available at the Praetorium and any other public location the Chancellor may choose, and on the CDS web portal.
Patroklus Murakami: 3. Only those citizens whose names appear on the published Citizen List may run for office or vote in the CDS elections.
4. Any citizen may challenge the inclusion or omission of an avatar on the Citizen List by petitioning the Scientific Council. Any such petition challenging the Citizen List must be received by the Dean of the SC no later than midnight, 21 days after that Citizen List is published. The SC will make every effort to resolve such challenges within 7 days, so that nominations and elections can proceed with an accurate Citizen List.
5. This bill revokes NL 5-17, Census Scheduling Act. The number of seats in the Representative Assembly shall be calculated on the day the Citizen List is published for the express purpose of determining citizen eligibility to vote.
Patroklus Murakami: 6. This bill applies to all elections and by-elections of Government members, representatives, or any official polling act called by any of the Government Branches (such as referenda or public consultation) that may have legislative power.
7. This bill does not revoke any other right of citizens, specifically NL 5-21, Citizen Involvement Act, or any public contest without the force of legislative power, such as proposing a new theme for an upcoming region to be publicly opened, redesigning the CDS official presence, or similar non-legislative acts.
Patroklus Murakami: my wall of text crits you for +10 !
Anna Toussaint: :)
Anna Toussaint: thanks, Pat!
Anna Toussaint: Hi, Sudane
Sudane Erato: hi :)
Patroklus Murakami: so, to summarise, we held a second commission meeting on 4 March
Rosie Gray: there are no changes from the last version posted on the forums, Pat?
Shep Titian: Hi Sudane
Rosie Gray: hi Sudane
Sudane Erato: hi hi :)
Patroklus Murakami: no rosie, this is the latest version as posted on the forums
Anna Toussaint: ah
Rosie Gray nods
Patroklus Murakami: i tidied up gwyn’s proposals following the commission
Patroklus Murakami: and calli and sudane commented on the proposals
Patroklus Murakami: i’ve incorporated their updates in the drafts posted above
Patroklus Murakami: and the notecards i handed out earlier
Patroklus Murakami: (the ones in teh agenda are out of date as this was updated today)
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll pass to sudane shortly
Anna Toussaint: good
Patroklus Murakami: main issue we have to sort out (apart from whether we approve these proposals or not)
Patroklus Murakami: 1) should ppl get land for free if we abolish their group/partner/ sponsor citizenship?
Patroklus Murakami: or pay a nominal fee?
Patroklus Murakami: 2) should they have priority for civil service positions?
Shep Titian: I would suggest free for a smmall plot
Patroklus Murakami: i think we can deal with that by amending the first bill (see the bits in square brackets)
Rosie Gray raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: should i move the motion etc? to kick off debate?
Anna Toussaint: yes
Anna Toussaint: the we will take them one at a time
Fern Leissa has indicated consent to be recorded.
Anna Toussaint: so, the first one please
Anna Toussaint: Hi, Fern
Patroklus Murakami: i move we discuss the proposals for legislation. first bill first
Anna Toussaint: is it a motion or a motion to discuss?
Rosie Gray: I second
Anna Toussaint: a motion to pass?
Rosie Gray: to discuss
Rosie Gray: I thought
Anna Toussaint: why do that?
Anna Toussaint: we can discuss if it has been moved …
Patroklus Murakami: whichever :) discuss first, then vote on them? sorry, i get confused by roberts rules meetings
Anna Toussaint: :0
Rosie Gray shrugs
Rosie Gray: I do as well Pat
Sudane Erato: me too!
Callipygian Christensen: (You put the motion for the actual passsing out, then discuss it
Anna Toussaint: will you withdraw the motion to discuss
Anna Toussaint: yes
Patroklus Murakami: withdrawn
Patroklus Murakami: i move the first bill
Anna Toussaint: second?
Rosie Gray: I second the motion
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Anna Toussaint: now, let’s discusd
Anna Toussaint: discuss
Anna Toussaint: (that wasn’t so hard, was it?)
Rosie Gray makes a face
Anna Toussaint: :)
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand to speak to the fee or purchased land aspect
Rosie Gray raises hand
Anna Toussaint: go for it, calli
Sudane Erato: raise hand
Anna Toussaint: then rosie
Anna Toussaint: then sudane :)
Shep Titian: Tries to damp down excitement
Anna Toussaint: hehe
Shep Titian: sorry … we won!!!
Patroklus Murakami: gratz shep :) 16-9?
Shep Titian: yes
Callipygian Christensen: Since right now only one person is affected by this, it seems a minor thing – the reason I spoke to it on the Forums is that here in CDS
Callipygian Christensen: we have a history and practise of looking at previous situations to respond to new ones
Callipygian Christensen: So while in this case it is one person, some future situation might be 10, or 20..and some RA will look back and say ‘well, we gave land away here, so should do the same now’
Callipygian Christensen: done
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Anna Toussaint: rosie?
Rosie Gray: I don’t understand why we would give land away
Rosie Gray: since everyone else who has become a citizen, has had to pay for it
Rosie Gray: what is the thought behind that?
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Rosie Gray: done
Anna Toussaint: pat, you may speak to rosies question
Patroklus Murakami: i can only guess at gwyn’s motive but.. i think her reasoning would have been:
Patroklus Murakami: we are taking away someone’s citizenship if they are a partner/ sponsor/group member
Patroklus Murakami: so it’s only fair that we should offer ppl an ‘easy’ way to regularise their citizenship, should they wish to remain citizens
Patroklus Murakami: some of our parcels are quite pricey and might be out of their range
Rosie Gray: hmmm
Anna Toussaint: I have a question: can it be grandfathered?
Rosie Gray raises hand
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand to discuss pricing
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Shep Titian: I think there should be a limit
Patroklus Murakami: i’d be happy to charge a nominal fee instead. say $L1/sq m
Fern Leissa: /raises hand
Trebor Warcliffe: Single prim land is L$ 1.50/sqm
Anna Toussaint: rosie?
Anna Toussaint: then sudane
Trebor Warcliffe: Double prim is L$3.00/sqm
Rosie Gray: I think we could do this, one time, only
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Anna Toussaint: rosie?
Rosie Gray: and the smallest parcels for sale only
Shep Titian: But we should’nt forget the bigger parcels cost a higher tier .. so its unlikely they would want that commitment
Trebor Warcliffe: Alexia click on the BALL not the chair
Anna Toussaint: may I make a comment?
Rosie Gray: but I don’t think it’s fair really to reward people who didn’t purchase land
Anna Toussaint: if that person is who I think it is, she doesn’t care
Rosie Gray: in the first place
Rosie Gray: done
Soro Dagostino raise hand
Shep Titian: No I can see your point Rosie
Anna Toussaint: sorry, rosie
Anna Toussaint: sudane, then soro
Anna Toussaint: sudane?
Sudane Erato: yes
Anna Toussaint: you wanted to speak earlier?
Sudane Erato: I think its utterly irrelevant whether we give the parcel or sell the parcel..
Sudane Erato: the revenue we get is tier… not land sale
Sudane Erato: and I would be totally oppesed to forgiveness of tier
Rosie Gray: of course!
Sudane Erato: which is not the case with this proposal
Sudane Erato: so that it think you should do what you like
Sudane Erato: but
Sudane Erato: for the life of me
[ssb] Currency Converter 1.03: Type the value to be converted followed by the currency symbol and a question mark into chat. Example: 500L$?
Sudane Erato: I cannot fathom what this issue has to do with civil service positions
Rosie Gray agrees heartily
Sudane Erato: i think that should NOT be done
Sudane Erato: done
Anna Toussaint: soro?
Soro Dagostino: Point of Order . . . Question.
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Rosie Gray raises hand
Soro Dagostino: What matter is before the body?
Anna Toussaint: yes?
Soro Dagostino: The maker of the motion did not state the issue.
Anna Toussaint: the matter of Pat’s proposed legislature re citizenships
Soro Dagostino: In its entirety?
Anna Toussaint: no
Anna Toussaint: proposal one
Anna Toussaint: it is on the forum
Patroklus Murakami: i move bill #1
Patroklus Murakami: *moved
Anna Toussaint: :)
Soro Dagostino: I didn’t see that in my transcript.
Anna Toussaint: now, who was next
Anna Toussaint: ok\
Anna Toussaint: it was there
Patroklus Murakami: may I?
Anna Toussaint: yes
Patroklus Murakami: in the interests of moving things on, why don’t we set a fee of L$1000 for any land purchased under article 8? then ppl have to pay something for the land?
Patroklus Murakami: and, of course, no tier waiver
Patroklus Murakami: done
Trebor Warcliffe: With all due respect our prices are extremly cheap
Rosie Gray raises hand again
Anna Toussaint: rosie?
Anna Toussaint: sorry I missed you before
Rosie Gray: I still think that it’s not fair
Rosie Gray: to existing citizens who have all paid for their land
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
Rosie Gray: I just don’t see the reasoning to give it away… as Trebor points out they are very fairly priced
Anna Toussaint: trebor?
Patroklus Murakami: ok. instead we could make 8 read as follows “8. Any citizen that loses their citizenship status due to the passage of this bill is encouraged to purchase a parcel of land in the CDS “
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Anna Toussaint: Trebor, then Soro
Rosie Gray: perhaps we could give some small incentive
Trebor Warcliffe: If this legislation is passed as is will this be an issue further on down the road? If not than it is a mute point.
Rosie Gray: and I also do not see any connection at all to the Civil Service role
Trebor Warcliffe: They pay for a parcel just like all of us have done
Trebor Warcliffe: Our sale prices are the cheapest in years
Rosie Gray: and now I’m done
Anna Toussaint: :)
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Trebor Warcliffe: 1.5/sqm SP 3.0/sam DP
Shep Titian: It only matters to existing citizens .. do we know how mmany are affected?
Trebor Warcliffe: DONE
Trebor Warcliffe: One
Anna Toussaint: Soro?
Trebor Warcliffe: that im aware of
Trebor Warcliffe: Done
Anna Toussaint: that is Kellie, no?
Soro Dagostino: Would that be Mary?
Trebor Warcliffe: I thought it would be Satir
Rosie Gray: lol
Trebor Warcliffe: Isnt she a “sponsor”
Patroklus Murakami: i’m only aware of one citizen being affected. i sent out a group notice to check and only one person responded (who is okay in any case)
Anna Toussaint: it was Kellie being on the lists last time that raised such a stink from CLEO
Sudane Erato: raise hand point of info
Soro Dagostino: It impacts my Partner.
Anna Toussaint: Sudane?
Patroklus Murakami: yes soro
Soro Dagostino: She is denied citizenship
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand to respond to Soro’s statement
Shep Titian: How does she feel about it Soro?
Sudane Erato: the citizenship right now of Kellie and Mary… if they want it..
Soro Dagostino: A violation of California Law.l
Anna Toussaint: So is Kellie, who is my partner
Sudane Erato: is conveyed by being partners on the Hippo box
Rosie Gray: California has nothing to do with us
Sudane Erato: the citizenship of Satir
Anna Toussaint: she does not care
Soro Dagostino: Yes it does.
Pip Torok was about to say the same thing!
Soro Dagostino: I will show it does.
Sudane Erato: to my knowledge… there is no hippo box for her
Anna Toussaint: order!
Trebor Warcliffe: Raises Hand
Sudane Erato: so she has not contributed tier since the system change
Anna Toussaint: so, there are two that are affected?
Sudane Erato: done
Anna Toussaint: Soro’s partner and mine?
Trebor Warcliffe: no
Patroklus Murakami: it would seem so anna
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
Anna Toussaint: Trebor?
Anna Toussaint: who else?
Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you
Trebor Warcliffe: The only one I see affected by it would be Satir. Both Kellie and Mary can have land deeded to them because their partenrs own more than one parcel. Anna owns 2 and Soro owns 3.
Callipygian Christensen quietly reiterates – someting done for one or two now, may be a precedent for something done for 20 down the road . Discoutn a 512 to 1l per sq metere, drop the civil service thing and done
Trebor Warcliffe: A single prim parcel is only 1.5L per sqm whcih Im sure Satir could afford if she wants to remain with us
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend bill #1, paragraph 8 to read “8. Any citizen that loses their citizenship status due to the passage of this bill is encouraged to purchase a parcel of land in the CDS ” and delete paragraph 9
Rosie Gray: in the cases of Anna and Soro they could both sell their partners a parcel
Rosie Gray: at whatever price they want
Trebor Warcliffe: Exactly Rosie
Soro Dagostino: Not so.
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes so
Rosie Gray: why not?
Sudane Erato: why not?
Soro Dagostino: the parcels are for prim
Soro Dagostino: non-transferrable.
Rosie Gray: no they aren’t
Pip Torok wonders if Pats motion will get a seconder
Fern Leissa: Oh no…. we drove Anna away
Rosie Gray: at least I know Anna has 2 that aren’t
Patroklus Murakami: there’s lots of yellow on the map if ppl want to remain citizens….
Rosie Gray: anyway, this is beside the point
Trebor Warcliffe: They can be owned by two different people and share prims by deeding them to a group where both are memebrs. The Hippo system ONLY recognizes individualsm, not groups.
Soro Dagostino: It isn’t you are forcing a citizen to pay to remain a citzen
Patroklus Murakami: yes. we all have to pay to remain citizens!
Rosie Gray: no, it is that we are forcing everyone to the same responsibilities as everyone else to remain a citizen
Trebor Warcliffe: No we’re not. Give her title to one of your 3 parcels
Trebor Warcliffe: And yes Pat is correct we all pay to remain citizens
Soro Dagostino: Poll tax.
Callipygian Christensen: I didnt realize Mary had become a citizen – will have to congratulate her
Patroklus Murakami: can i just point out that this has been debated since november. why are objections being raised now at the 11th hour?
Trebor Warcliffe: I never even heard of her until the other night myself
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend bill #1, paragraph 8 to read “8. Any citizen that loses their citizenship status due to the passage of this bill is encouraged to purchase a parcel of land in the CDS ” and delete paragraph 9
Trebor Warcliffe: Pat because people dont want to be bothered until its something they’re not happy about.
Patroklus Murakami: oh dear, did we lose anna?
Rosie Gray: wb Anna
Shep Titian: wb
Anna Toussaint: sorry ;bout that
Patroklus Murakami looks for a second….
Shep Titian: I second
Soro Dagostino — this is Mary
Anna Toussaint: ok, was there an amendment?
Patroklus Murakami: hi Mary
Sudane Erato: hi Mary :)
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend bill #1, paragraph 8 to read “8. Any citizen that loses their citizenship status due to the passage of this bill is encouraged to purchase a parcel of land in the CDS ” and delete paragraph 9
Shep Titian: Hello Mary
Pip Torok: hi Mary
Soro Dagostino: The person whose rights you are taking.
Rosie Gray: hi Mary
MaryElizabethbc1 Resident: Good morning all
Rosie Gray: nonsense, Soro
Trebor Warcliffe: Hi Mary
Anna Toussaint: Hi, Mary
Fern Leissa: Hi Mary
Anna Toussaint: glad you are here
MaryElizabethbc1 Resident: thank you for letting me listen
Alexia Carnell: Hi Mary welcome
Anna Toussaint: I have an alternate proposal
Anna Toussaint: these are open meetings, Mary
Soro Dagostino May I speak to that issue?
Anna Toussaint: yes
Anna Toussaint: let me make my proposeal, however
Soro Dagostino: Yield/.
Anna Toussaint: then you’re on
Anna Toussaint: I propose that we simply grandfather them in
Trebor Warcliffe: who are “them”
Anna Toussaint: in some fashion
Rosie Gray: with the purchase of some land?
Anna Toussaint: those whose citizenship is being ntaken
Rosie Gray: or transfer of title from their partners?
Patroklus Murakami: that’s what the original proposal does by giving them a plot of land!
Anna Toussaint: if you like, Rosie
Anna Toussaint: or we can just keep them citizens
Trebor Warcliffe: there are 3 people this could POSSIBLY affect
Anna Toussaint: there are only 2
Anna Toussaint: yes
Anna Toussaint: 3
Trebor Warcliffe: kellie, Mary, and Satir
Anna Toussaint: there ya go
Anna Toussaint: Kellie doesn’t want to buy land
Patroklus Murakami: then we have another category of citizens to add to the list. the point was to make things simpler and more transparent
Trebor Warcliffe: both kellie and Mary can have land titled to them by their partner
Anna Toussaint: yes, that is so
Shep Titian: OFGS!
Trebor Warcliffe: If kelli doesnt want to be a landowner than she remains youur partner but is not a citizen
Trebor Warcliffe: for voting purposes
Trebor Warcliffe: no big deal
Rosie Gray: that’s correct
Soro Dagostino raises hand.
Anna Toussaint: she doesn’t care, but Mary might
Anna Toussaint: Soro?
Trebor Warcliffe: I will remain quiet while Soro speaks.
Soro Dagostino: This group is a body under the tors of LL.
Soro Dagostino: LL is a California corporation, and subject to that state’s laws.
Alexia Carnell: Omg
Soro Dagostino: Which include Domestice rights to marital partnerships and married couples.
Shep Titian: Forgive me .. but when I wanted to be a citizen I had to buy land .. in the interests of clarity it should be the same for everyone
Rosie Gray snorts
Sudane Erato: lol…
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Soro Dagostino: Called community property
Sudane Erato: thats ridiculous
Rosie Gray: that is ridiculous
Soro Dagostino: Mary contributed to the cost of purchase of the land.
Trebor Warcliffe: Good than you need to deed to her one of those parcels
Callipygian Christensen: Soro, then refund her that money so that she can purchase her own
Trebor Warcliffe: since its you that is at fault not us
Pip Torok objects to being beholden to CAL’s local laws and will not be bound by them
Soro Dagostino: It is the law.
Anna Toussaint: Order
Sudane Erato: haha Pip!… :)
Shep Titian: Rubbish
Rosie Gray: this is a virtual world and a virtual democracy that has nothing to do with California
Anna Toussaint: Trebor, that was our regulations when she signed on
Shep Titian: I’m a British citizen
Trebor Warcliffe: EXACTLY
Rosie Gray: I’m a Canadian citizen
Alexia Carnell: Italy here
Trebor Warcliffe: and a PRIVATE ESTATE within SL
Rosie Gray: indeed
Sudane Erato: New York!
Patroklus Murakami coughs
Trebor Warcliffe: The country of Florida here
Callipygian Christensen raises her hand and waves
Rosie Gray: lol
Soro Dagostino: Its California property.
Anna Toussaint: we are a virtual melting pot
Anna Toussaint: ORDER!
Rosie Gray: it’s irrelevant though, Soro
Shep Titian: No it is’nt
Anna Toussaint: are you finished Soro?
Pip Torok: it is NOT _property_ of the _State_ of California
Soro Dagostino: For the moment.
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Anna Toussaint: Sudane, how much of a hardship would it be
Anna Toussaint: to grandfather those folks in as citizens?
Sudane Erato: well
Anna Toussaint: I ask this as purely informational
Alexia Carnell: Do i need a green card?
Rosie Gray: lol
Anna Toussaint: :)
Sudane Erato: it would an exception to what would otherwise be a mechanical system
Sudane Erato: and
Callipygian Christensen: You can’t grandfather citizenship since it must be maintained by owning a parcel and paying tier on it
Sudane Erato: the object of this excercize is to remove the human element
Callipygian Christensen: at best, as Pat said, you can give a free ride intothe ownership aspect
Sudane Erato: to avoid the experience of the last election
Pip Torok wd like to know the precedence from which Soro derives this absurd notion
Sudane Erato: done
Anna Toussaint: quiet in the peanut gallery, Pip :)
Pip Torok: (ok, Maam:)
Callipygian Christensen waves her hand some more
Patroklus Murakami: may I?
Anna Toussaint: ok, so could this be avoided by Soro deeding one of the parcels to Mary?
Sudane Erato: yes
Patroklus Murakami looks for his ‘raises hand’ animation
Trebor Warcliffe: Calli’s arm must be sore as she has been raising it for a while
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Anna Toussaint: first, Calli, then PAt
Anna Toussaint: :)
Callipygian Christensen: I want to clarify if Sorois arguing against the whole bill or just the ‘you must purchase a parcel’ part
Soro Dagostino raises hand.
Anna Toussaint: Soro?
Callipygian Christensen: since the ‘must purchase’ is waht was in general discussion at the time he spoke, I am not sure
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Anna Toussaint: as it stands, it is NOT in the proposed legislation
Anna Toussaint: Pat?
Soro Dagostino: My objection is to the part where you force a citizen to pay additional — Item 6
Soro Dagostino: 6. Citizenship derived solely through membership of a group or through being the partner of a CDS citizen is hereby abolished.
Anna Toussaint: thank you, Soro
Soro Dagostino: And only that as to partnership.
Anna Toussaint: pat was next ….
Callipygian Christensen: So it has nothing to do with whether Mary receives a parcel free or has to pay for it..so perhaps that should be where the discussion focueses
Soro Dagostino: Yes
Callipygian Christensen: one or the other issue at a time..done
Anna Toussaint: ah, you’re not done Calli … sorry
Patroklus Murakami: well, article 6 is the whole point of the legislation
Anna Toussaint: Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: which was discussed at two commission meetings inworld
Patroklus Murakami: and on the forums since november
Patroklus Murakami: and where the consensus was that all these categories needed to go
Patroklus Murakami: because without reform our citizenship rules are simply unworkable
Patroklus Murakami: and lead to the kind of mess we had at the last elections
Patroklus Murakami: and we are now up against it folks
Anna Toussaint: Yes. Let us not forget that this is the work of a commission, which was free and open to attend
Patroklus Murakami: if we don’t get this done now we will be into the deadlines for nomination
Patroklus Murakami: for the next elections
Soro Dagostino raises hand
Rosie Gray: there has been plenty of time
Patroklus Murakami: it is galling that soro chooses to bring this up at the last minute
Pip Torok agrees
Patroklus Murakami: when there has been plenty of opportunity to propose alternatives sooner
Patroklus Murakami: and raise objections
Patroklus Murakami: done
Anna Toussaint: are you done, Pat?
Anna Toussaint: rthanks
Anna Toussaint: soro?
Soro Dagostino: Is it now a rule a citizen cannot bring up issues to the RA?
Anna Toussaint: no
Pip Torok (thinks : this is an argument? :| )
Patroklus Murakami: i call the vote on my amendment
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: All in favor of ending discussion, say aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Shep Titian: aye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes aye
Patroklus Murakami: shall i restate the amendment?
Rosie Gray: please
Anna Toussaint: yes, please
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend bill #1, paragraph 8 to read “8. Any citizen that loses their citizenship status due to the passage of this bill is encouraged to purchase a parcel of land in the CDS ” and delete paragraph 9
Anna Toussaint: all in favor of Pat’s amendment, say “aye”
Trebor Warcliffe: “encouraged to obtain a parcel of land”
Rosie Gray: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Shep Titian: aye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes “aye”
Anna Toussaint: amendment carries
Rosie Gray: ???????..? Applauds! ? ..???????..
Anna Toussaint: now, the first motion is still on the floor
Pip Torok claps…
Anna Toussaint: any further discussion?
Patroklus Murakami: i move we vote
Shep Titian: Second
Anna Toussaint: all in favor of ending discussion say aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Shep Titian: Aye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes aye
Anna Toussaint: all in favor of proposal #1 as amended, say aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Shep Titian: Aye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes aye
Anna Toussaint: all opposed say “nay”
Anna Toussaint: the “ayes” have it
Anna Toussaint: motion passed
Patroklus Murakami: did rosie vote?
Pip Torok applauds
Anna Toussaint: she did not
Shep Titian: no
Rosie Gray: no I didn’t
Rosie Gray: but aye
Rosie Gray: sorry had to step away for a second
Anna Toussaint: it is her privilege not to vote
Anna Toussaint: record that the vote is 4 ayes, then
Patroklus Murakami: i move bill #2
Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
Rosie Gray: secodn
Rosie Gray: second… even
Shep Titian: :)
Anna Toussaint: ok, any discussion?
Trebor Warcliffe: this peanut has no issues with Bill#2
Anna Toussaint: hehe
Rosie Gray: ?
Anna Toussaint: and a very fine peanut you are, too
Trebor Warcliffe: lol
Patroklus Murakami: thx to calli and sudane for improving the drafting of this one
Sudane Erato: the 12 noon should specify the time zone…
Sudane Erato: and yw :)
Rosie Gray: good point about the time zone
Patroklus Murakami: amend to say “PDT”? does that work?
Anna Toussaint: I offer a friendly amendment so that it is PDT
Anna Toussaint: yes
Patroklus Murakami: accepted
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: any other discussion?
Soro Dagostino: You may want to use SLT
Trebor Warcliffe: I agree
Trebor Warcliffe: with Soro
Anna Toussaint: we could … SLT then?
Rosie Gray: yes SLT is better
Anna Toussaint: kk
Anna Toussaint: it has been amended in a friendly-like fashion
Patroklus Murakami: okay, whatever works :)
Anna Toussaint: all in favor of Proposal #2 say “aye”
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes aye
Anna Toussaint: shep?
Shep Titian: Aye
Shep Titian: sorry
Anna Toussaint: motion carried
Rosie Gray: clap clap clap
Rosie Gray: yay
Patroklus Murakami: at long last!
Anna Toussaint: now … one more order of business
Patroklus Murakami claps
Rosie Gray: nice work Pat ?
Fern Leissa: clap clap calp
Anna Toussaint: I need a motion that we dismiss the commission with thanks
Rosie Gray: so moved
Pip Torok applauds
Trebor Warcliffe: QUESTION
Sudane Erato: ty Pat!
Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
Shep Titian: Good work Pat :)
Shep Titian: second
Anna Toussaint: ok … Trebor?
Trebor Warcliffe: nothing I didnt scroll down far enough
Trebor Warcliffe: sorry
Anna Toussaint: k
Patroklus Murakami: ty folks :)
Anna Toussaint: all in favor of the motion to dismiss the commission with our thanks, say aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Trebor Warcliffe: ty Pat Sudane Calli Gwynn and everyone who contributed to the discussions
Shep Titian: Aye
Patroklus Murakami abstains
Anna Toussaint: the chair votes aye
Anna Toussaint: motion carried
Anna Toussaint: thank you Pat and everybody involved for fine work
Sudane Erato: raise hand
Anna Toussaint: sudane?
Sudane Erato: i’d just like to say
Sudane Erato: that in all my years here
Sudane Erato: this is the first time we’ve had an administratable voter qualification procedure
Sudane Erato: ty!!
Sudane Erato: done
Rosie Gray: :D
Patroklus Murakami: :D
Anna Toussaint: yayyyy!
Anna Toussaint: ok
Anna Toussaint: any commission reports”?
Pip Torok feels good as well as more “legitimate” …
Patroklus Murakami: none
Trebor Warcliffe: Rosie what is the status of the Expansion Commission?
Anna Toussaint: we have one other commission …
Rosie Gray: as you ask
Rosie Gray: the last RA meeting, that I was unable to attend
Rosie Gray: seems to have steamed over that commission
Rosie Gray: so I have not done anything further
Trebor Warcliffe: Could the RA than fill us in on the status please?
Rosie Gray: I’d like to know if there is a desire of the RA for any further procedure from the commission, or if it is effectively ended
Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3757
Anna Toussaint: well?
Rosie Gray: thank you Pat
Shep Titian: I think the concensus was pretty clear Rosie :)
Patroklus Murakami: apologies rosie. i should have added in the summary the vote of thanks from teh RA for your work on the commission
Trebor Warcliffe: So nothing has been done since the RA in regards to this
Shep Titian: I can’t see it changing tbh
Patroklus Murakami: but i dont believe we formally wound it up
Rosie Gray: and so it should be
Shep Titian: no we did’nt
Rosie Gray: ?
Anna Toussaint: Trebor, as per a private discussion last week, you were going to provide me with the economic workup so we could figure out the nuber of public parcels to private
Anna Toussaint: perhaps I missed it?
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes I can have that done by tonight if needed
Patroklus Murakami: we need to do some publicity regarding the competition though. or we won’t get many entries by the 31 march deadline
Anna Toussaint: so we could write an acceptable RFP
Anna Toussaint: yes
Trebor Warcliffe: There are two dates the 17th and the 31st
Anna Toussaint: it might be we have to slip the deadline back two weeks
Patroklus Murakami: we set 31st
Anna Toussaint: the one we approved was the 31st, Treb
Trebor Warcliffe: ok
Anna Toussaint: I was under the impression that the commission would oversee these things
Patroklus Murakami: sorry, it was confusing in the way i posted it
Anna Toussaint: the call for designs, the putting togbether of an RFP
Anna Toussaint: because we have no NG
Patroklus Murakami: that would be a good way forward anna
Anna Toussaint: was I mistaken?
Rosie Gray: that’s true Anna
Anna Toussaint: so … I will get the specs from Trebor
Anna Toussaint: or he can pass them to you\
Rosie Gray: okay
Anna Toussaint: and I, and anyone who wants, can help with the RFP
Trebor Warcliffe: Qucik question for all in attendance
Trebor Warcliffe: May I?
Rosie Gray: yes that would be appreciated
Anna Toussaint: Rosie and I will get a draft and put it on the forumn
Anna Toussaint: Treb>
Anna Toussaint: Treb?
Trebor Warcliffe: In doing my calculations previously
Trebor Warcliffe: as you all know currently we have varied fees to LL
Trebor Warcliffe: 195
Trebor Warcliffe: 195
Trebor Warcliffe: 295
Trebor Warcliffe: 295
Anna Toussaint: yes
Trebor Warcliffe: 90
Trebor Warcliffe: Currently except for MON
Trebor Warcliffe: I have all single prim land at US$ 3.25 per 512sqm
Trebor Warcliffe: and all double prim land at $6.50 per 512 sqm
Anna Toussaint: its getting down to the 2 hour limit, treb
Anna Toussaint: what’s your point?
Trebor Warcliffe: IF you would like me to continue to have all single prim land remain the same price and double prim land to be the same price
Anna Toussaint: I have no objections
Trebor Warcliffe: I’d need to bump it by 25 cents and 50 cents
Trebor Warcliffe: respectivly
Anna Toussaint: to do what?
Anna Toussaint: to make it come out profitable?
Trebor Warcliffe: so SP would than be $3.50 and DP would be $7.00 per 512sqm
Anna Toussaint: any objections?
Patroklus Murakami: i’m not sure i follow. bump the price of which land? in the new sim?
Trebor Warcliffe: No to keep it uniform through ALL sims whether its 5 or 50
Trebor Warcliffe: ALL LAND except MON
Trebor Warcliffe: that way
Rosie Gray: I don’t think it’s necessary to change what we already have
Trebor Warcliffe: new land and old lands will be hte same price
Rosie Gray: unless I’m missing the point some how
Trebor Warcliffe: this way all of our land whther its the original 5 or new ones
Sudane Erato: Trebor, i suggest you write out an explanation and post it
Trebor Warcliffe: will be the same price across the board
Sudane Erato: this is too complicated
Trebor Warcliffe: LOL
Trebor Warcliffe: ok’
Anna Toussaint: thank you Sudane
Pip Torok agrees with Sudane
Trebor Warcliffe: I can punch it through my spreadsheet
Trebor Warcliffe: to show everyone what I mean
Anna Toussaint: do you have a quick report, Treb?
Trebor Warcliffe: fair enough
Fern Leissa: Is this because the ratio of higher priced sims to lower priced will increase?
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Fern
Sudane Erato: Fern, yes
Trebor Warcliffe: also with new sims
Trebor Warcliffe: we have to do our city plannign more effectively
Trebor Warcliffe: in regards to private and public lands
Anna Toussaint: let’s take Sudane’s suggestion and take it to the forums, people
Trebor Warcliffe: Ill have it all calculated by tonight
Anna Toussaint: do you have a report, Treb?
Patroklus Murakami: thx trebor
Shep Titian: Is’nt tier the same for old and new?
Trebor Warcliffe: Ive worked on it previously so I have an idea of where I need to be
Trebor Warcliffe: Shep no
Anna Toussaint: good
Anna Toussaint: let’s not tackle pricing today
Trebor Warcliffe: we have 2 sims that are only 195 currently
Trebor Warcliffe: ok
Trebor Warcliffe: no pronblem
Trebor Warcliffe: im DONE
Anna Toussaint: do you have a report, Treb
Shep Titian: ok
Trebor Warcliffe: Oh
Anna Toussaint: :)
Trebor Warcliffe: You mean a Chancellors report?
Trebor Warcliffe: LOL
Anna Toussaint: yes
Sudane Erato: lol
Trebor Warcliffe: Got me going on numbers and I get all excited LOL
Anna Toussaint: ;)
Trebor Warcliffe: A very brief one
Sudane Erato: (thats why i love this man) :)
Anna Toussaint: that’s the kind I like
Rosie Gray: he’s a wonder
Rosie Gray: ?
Trebor Warcliffe: Lillith and Rosie have been planting new trees on all publically owned land
Trebor Warcliffe: we now have 7 Seas Fishing Game on the docks just outside this building
Trebor Warcliffe: We are coshosting 2 events with New Toulouse for Relay For Life
Trebor Warcliffe: And we are working on a new book for the CDS
Trebor Warcliffe: I think thats it for now
Anna Toussaint: thank you
Trebor Warcliffe: yw
Patroklus Murakami: excellent! ty :)
Trebor Warcliffe: oh
Anna Toussaint: any general announcements?
Trebor Warcliffe: We made it into the Best of SL magazine
Trebor Warcliffe: the opening of MoCA on Jan 29th
Anna Toussaint: cool!
Trebor Warcliffe: great little write up
Trebor Warcliffe: and we’re workign on getting the CDS into the Destination Guide
Trebor Warcliffe: now im done
Anna Toussaint: I suggest that we meet again on March 31 at the same time, same place
Anna Toussaint: anybody have an objection?
Trebor Warcliffe: same bat time same bat channel same bat cave
Patroklus Murakami: ok with me
Anna Toussaint: indeed
Shep Titian: Ok with me
Anna Toussaint: rosie?
Patroklus Murakami: i move we adjourn
Rosie Gray: yes okay with me…
Trebor Warcliffe: wake up Rosie
Trebor Warcliffe: lol
Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
Shep Titian: second
Anna Toussaint: all in favor, say aye?
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Shep Titian: aye
Rosie Gray: aye
Anna Toussaint: aye
Anna Toussaint: we are adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 14 April 2012

Agenda for RA meeting of April 14, 2012

– Administrative Business
— Review and approve agenda (5 min.)
— Speakers on today’s agenda items? (5 min)
– Citizen Concerns (5 min)
– RA Members’ Concerns (5 min)
– Old Business
– New Business
— Discussion and review of Sim design proposals
– Commission Reports (5 min)
– Executive Report (10 min)
– General Announcements (5 min)
– Next RA Meeting? (5 min)
– Adjourn

Summary:

    1. The RA agreed that new sim proposals should be published on the forums and distributed by notecard with discussion to continue on the forums.

 

    Ayes – Beathan, Patroklus, Shep. Anna and Rosie have 7-days to cast their votes.
    2. The RA asked the SC to rule on whether people who own land with a group title (and have not switched it to individual) should be allowed to vote in the coming elections. (The SC has agreed to discuss this at its meeting on 15 April).

 

    Ayes – Beathan, Patroklus, Shep. Anna and Rose have 7-day votes.
    3. The RA agreed to meet again at 9am SLT on Saturday 28 April in the Praetorium, Colonia Nova.

Shep Titian: Ok well w have a quorum … shall we begin
Beathan Vale: yes
Patroklus Murakami: yes lets
Shep Titian: Have you all got a copy of the agenda
Beathan Vale: yes
Patroklus Murakami: i’ll look at the forum post. the notecard giver has an old card in it
Shep Titian: Good .. oh Daniel it should be said as you are new .. by participating here ,.. you automatically agree for your words to put on the forum
Daniel Sosa: I agree
Shep Titian: All aprove the agenda?
Patroklus Murakami fails to find an agenda anywhere…
Beathan Vale: The notecard I got says “April 14”
Shep Titian: I say aye
Beathan Vale: aye
Shep Titian: Thats today’s date Beathan
Beathan Vale: yes, but it is giving old legislation — and I don’t know who has the sim proposal reports.
Patroklus Murakami: thx daniel. yes, approve the agenda
Shep Titian: bli hat’s Anna
Shep Titian: elieve
Shep Titian: Sorry having trouble here
Beathan Vale: OK — well it’s later in the agenda. hopefully she will be here by then
Shep Titian: Yes
Beathan Vale: I move we put off speakers on the sims until we have the proposals
Shep Titian: I’m assuming Anna will be the speaker too
Shep Titian: Ok Citizens concerns
Shep Titian: Right … RA members concerns?
Daniel Sosa: I do not have any at this time but if the discussion that we wer having prior to the start of the meeting was to come up I would have a concnern
Patroklus Murakami: none
Daniel Sosa: about that being a private meeting
Shep Titian: ou can comment on that
Daniel Sosa: It was not in the meeting so would not make sense in the mintues
Shep Titian: Yes it would .. under citizens concerns
Beathan Vale: I have heard from one longtime citizen who missed paying her tier by one day (I think the candidacy tier — not the voting tier); and have heard hearsay reports of a couple others. I just note that as a possible concern under our new voting timing procedures and that we may want to implement grace periods, although I am not sure that we should act on that now before we give the current rules a chance to work.
Beathan Vale: Hi Fern
Fern Leissa: Hi Beathan 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: people were warned beathan. if they were not current in tier… tough
Shep Titian: This is so near the election Beathan .. any grace time will give rise to a similar fiasco as last time I would have thought
Beathan Vale: Due to sparse attendance, I move that we give late-arriving citizens a chance to express concerns if they have any
Shep Titian: I agree
Beathan Vale: I agree — but it is something to note and consider next term if we find it is a real probleem
Shep Titian: Hello Fern
Fern Leissa: No immediate questions from me tx
Fern Leissa: Hi Shep 🙂
Beathan Vale: I don’t want to change the rules this close to the election
Patroklus Murakami: happy to be lenient about people who did not switch their land from group in time
Beathan Vale: agree
Shep Titian: Yes I’d go aLONG WITH THAT
Shep Titian: sorry again
Patroklus Murakami: i sent group notices to warn people to pay tier for both nomination qualification and voting
Shep Titian: Do we have any old business?
Shep Titian: Yes I saw those Pat .. thankls for doing it
Beathan Vale: I know — that was good and I thought it would be effective … but some people may have missed it — and I hate to see people lose voting rights on technicalities
Shep Titian: As you know Beathan .. huge giant can of worms lol
Patroklus Murakami: either we have rules. or we don’t. i think we agree that we don’t want to change them this close to an electio. i agree we should think about the impact for future elections
Daniel Sosa: May I speak
Shep Titian: If we are lax this time .. the same thing will happen again
Shep Titian: Please do Daniel
Daniel Sosa: I would recommend that the RA find out how many citizens were unable to vote based on the rule
Daniel Sosa: and if it is a large percentage then that would be a reason to discuss and change the rule
Beathan Vale: Daniel — I’m not sure that there are any — I’ve looked at the list — I think a couple people may have missed the second deadline (candidacy) — but this might not be a huge deal, although we might not have enough candidates and might lose at least one person who otherwise would have run …
Daniel Sosa: however I would not know what that percentage would be
Patroklus Murakami: i can’t go along with that daniel. if people failed to keep their tier current on one parcel they don’t qualify as a citizen
Shep Titian: We had utter confusion and cries of fixing at the last election
Daniel Sosa: if voiting and peopple wanting to be involved in the demoacracy and the rules are preventing good people to participate then the rules definitely sholuld be reviewed
Beathan Vale: I do think that the process was far more transparent under the new rules — and that was a great improvement — and a significant effort (by Sudane especially) which we should note with gratitude
Shep Titian: Hence we changed the rules to be more transparent
Patroklus Murakami: if people were ignorant of the rule change it’s largely their fault. there was a debate about this for months. multiple forumthreads, inworld meetings and several group notices
Shep Titian: The rules are preventing no one from taking part who is’nt up to date on tier payments
Daniel Sosa: I stand corrected
Shep Titian: Ok .. new business
Shep Titian: From where I’m sitting the rest of this agenda is unworkable
Beathan Vale: so it seems
Patroklus Murakami: do we know how many sim design proposals there are? i’ve only seen one from beathan
Shep Titian: How are we feeling on aborting?
Beathan Vale: I move that sim proposals be published on the forums and by notecard distrubution and that we discuss them on the RA forums, allowing public input on the general forum
Shep Titian: As far as I know Anna has been working on the criteria for tender
Shep Titian: ]I second Beathan
Shep Titian: Vote please
Beathan Vale: aye
Shep Titian: Aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Shep Titian: Good then that part is official;ly moved to forum
Shep Titian: Seems we have no exec to report either
Shep Titian: Ok .. next meeting date
Patroklus Murakami: can we discuss the group citizens issue before we adjourn?
Beathan Vale: When is the official date for sim consideration? the 28th?
Shep Titian: 28th April at 9 am??
Beathan Vale: yes and yes
Patroklus Murakami: i’m fine with that date and time
Shep Titian: good .. lets hope that will be better attended
Fern Leissa: 🙂
Shep Titian: So datew and time set at 9 am on 28th April
Patroklus Murakami: i move we ask the SC to rule on whether people who own land with a group title (and have not switched it to individual) should be allowed to vote in teh coming elections
Beathan Vale: second
Shep Titian: I think we should adjourn .. but make ourselves available for questions from the floor
Shep Titian: So ayes for adjourn and date
Shep Titian: Aye
Beathan Vale: let’s vote on Pat’s motion first
Patroklus Murakami: aye. i’ll let soro know about our request for a ruling
Shep Titian: Sorry
Beathan Vale: aye and aye
Patroklus Murakami: oh, i thought we had!
Patroklus Murakami: but… aye and aye!
Shep Titian: An aye for your propsal anyway Pat 🙂
Shep Titian: Ok troops /.. done

Permalink.

RA Meeting 28 April 2012

Agenda for RA meeting of April 28th. 2012

– Administrative Business
— Review and approve agenda (5 min.)
— Speakers on today’s agenda items? (5 min)
– Citizen Concerns (5 min)
– RA Members’ Concerns (5 min)
– Old Business
– New Business
— Proposals …….
– Commission Reports (5 min)
– Executive Report (10 min)
– General Announcements (5 min)
– Next RA Meeting? (5 min)
– Adjourn

Summary:

    1. The RA voted to amend the Constitution to set the size of the Representative Assembly at five seats.

 

    Ayes – Beathan, Patroklus, Shep, Rosie. Anna has seven days to cast her vote.
    2. The RA discussed reforming the Scientific Council and agreed to continue the discussion on these forums.
    3. The RA voted on a proposal to repeal CDSL 13-07 Term Limits Act

 

    Ayes – Patroklus, Shep. Nayes – Beathan. Rosie and Anna have 7-day votes (these will determine the outcome).
    4. The RA agreed to meet again on Saturday 12 May at 9am SLT in the Praetorium, Colonia Nova.

Shep Titian: Ok .. do we all have the agenda .. weell its skeleton?
Patroklus Murakami: yes
Rosie Gray: no
Rosie Gray: is it in the box?
Shep Titian: it the box Rosie .. but I did’nt clear the old stuff
Shep Titian: Well I don’t think we need 5 mins to approve it
Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to add an item to the agenda
Shep Titian: go ahead Pat
Patroklus Murakami: repeal of CDSL 13-7 Term LImits Act
Patroklus Murakami: 🙂
Shep Titian: So added
Shep Titian: Anyone other than Pat have something to speak on?
Rosie Gray: not at themoment
Shep Titian: ok .. Next … citizens concerns?
Shep Titian: Ok … RA members concerns?
Patroklus Murakami: none here 🙂
Rosie Gray: not from me
Beathan Vale: not today
Shep Titian: ok … any old business we have to deal with?
Shep Titian: Alright .. well next .. New business .. Pat .. all yours 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: ty
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend the Constitution to set the size of the RA at five members
Shep Titian: I’ll second that .. and we have 4 members .. so we can pass this today
Rosie Gray: I second that motion
Shep Titian: well Beathan .. you’re opinion?
Shep Titian: Lol * your
Beathan Vale: I don’t like the frequency with with we amend the Constitution and I would rather have a larger RA or an RA that grows with the population. I think that we should either set the RA at 7 or 9, or set the base at 5 and the largest size at 41 and then just change the trigger population to require a more population growth for RA growth than we currently have in the Con.
Beathan Vale: However, we have 6 declared candidates, I think —
Beathan Vale: So — that is a concern
Shep Titian: No we have 4
Beathan Vale: OK — even worse
Patroklus Murakami: beathan, would you agree that 10% is too high a figure?
Beathan Vale: So — for now, and with the stipulation that I consider this a temporary fix — I am inclined tto support the rule
Beathan Vale: Pat — yes — I would say 5 + 5% or even 2% —
Shep Titian: Ok well I think we can vote on this now
Delia Lake: /raises her hand
Shep Titian: I vote aye
Shep Titian: Delia?
Delia Lake: if I might ask, and I”m not for or agains t this proposal, what is the purpose of trying to limit the number of RA?
Patroklus Murakami: when you are ready shep, would you like me to state the question clearly? i.e. state how the constitution will be amended?
Beathan Vale: For me — the purpose is to avoid electoral fatigue and to help insure we have contested elections — if the RA is so big that it takes all comers, we don’t have a democracy, but rely entirely on self-selection
Shep Titian: I see it as a case of the previous expectations being too high Delia
Rosie Gray: I agree with both of those statements
Shep Titian: Not 10% in RL are part of government
Beathan Vale: I for one would like to see whether people would support me in a contested election based on my platform — otherwise I have trouble assessing whether my platform is desirable or not
Shep Titian: o0k Pat if you would please
Patroklus Murakami: okay
Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend article 1 section 2 of the constitution so that instead of “The number of representative seats in the RA is equal to the odd whole number nearest to 10% of the population, rounded down, with a minimum of five seats and a maximum of forty seats.” it reads “The number of representative seats in the RA is equal to five”
Shep Titian: Hmmm one point .. why leave the word equal in there?
Trebor Warcliffe: /raises hand
Rosie Gray: clarity I would think
Shep Titian: Trebor
Patroklus Murakami: history 🙂 it retains some of the language of the original drafting
Trebor Warcliffe: Are we going to limit it to 5 no matter how large the population grows? I like Beathans idea of lowering the amount after 5. Maybe 1 seat per an additional 25 citizens
Trebor Warcliffe: Thats basically 4%
Trebor Warcliffe: Done
Patroklus Murakami: yes trebor, that’s my proposal
Shep Titian: I think we need to grow first .. then address it
Beathan Vale: Trebor, I agree, but the RA can always reassess this each term
Shep Titian: Okay .. now a vote 🙂
Trebor Warcliffe: Better to address it now so it doesnt become an issue in the future
Patroklus Murakami: i vote aye
Trebor Warcliffe: And I dont see that wording in Pat’s proposal
Shep Titian: No Trebor that just confuses things
Rosie Gray: I vote Aye
Shep Titian: I vote aye
Beathan Vale: Trebor, based on our past, I think this will always be an issue in the future — the proposal would set the RA to 5, no more, no less, regardless of population
Beathan Vale: Reluctantly and noting that future RAs can, should, and doubtless will revisit this issue when circumstances change, I vote aye
Rosie Gray: ?
Trebor Warcliffe: I agree it could be brought back up for debate as the population grows. Seems like some laws change on a term by term basis anyhow.
Shep Titian: Thank you .. 4 out of four ayes .. Anna shouild have 7 day .. but the motion is carried
Shep Titian: well done Pat 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: yay!
Rosie Gray: I’ve heard that Anna’s hard drive has died, and she likely won’t be able to get into SL for a while
Shep Titian: Now Pat I believe your reforming spirit continues?
Shep Titian: Awww poor girl
Patroklus Murakami: yes. constitutional reform day here!
Patroklus Murakami: sorry to hear that rosie 🙁
Beathan Vale: Hi Ranma — welcome back
Rosie Gray: hi Ranma
Shep Titian: Hi Ranma
Ranma Tardis: hello
Patroklus Murakami: i move that we discuss reforming the SC. (if there is appetite to do so, i’ll bring proposals to the next meeting)
Trebor Warcliffe: Hello Ranma glad you could join us.
Patroklus Murakami: ranma! long time 🙂
Ranma Tardis: yes, sory I am late
Beathan Vale: ::nod:: I’m not prepared to support the current proposal — so that is a good process
Ranma Tardis has indicated consent to be recorded.
Shep Titian: Ok so what are your pricipal objects Beathan?
Beathan Vale: I don’t want to limit the SC to 3 or remove the dispute resolution function — at least not without replacing that function through some other institution. I think we need to have a vehicle for resolving problems with due process and known and fair rules. I don’t need the SC to do that as long as it gets done.
Patroklus Murakami: we could discuss around that beathan
Patroklus Murakami: i[m not fixated on limiting the SC to three (tho i have my reasons)
Delia Lake strongly objects to the RA uniformly reforming another independent branch of government without the participation of the SC. And particularly strongly objects as there is a working committee on SC reform right now, committee being Pat, Beathan, Delia and Calli, and we have not issued findings yet!
Patroklus Murakami: my main problem is with the SC as a ‘self-selecting meritocracy’
Patroklus Murakami: and the way they are able to sneak people on without RA approval (as with soro)
Delia Lake also objects to the assessment of “sneaking” which was most certainly NOT the case!
Patroklus Murakami: delia, there’s a proposal on the table. the RA can debate this
Rosie Gray raises a wing
Beathan Vale: I would certainly support that aspect of the reform. Requiring that all SC members be approved by the RA through formal action before taking a seat
Shep Titian: Rosie
Beathan Vale: That would include current RA members — no getting on through RA inaction
Trebor Warcliffe: Wasnt that a case of the RA dropping the ball and not holding a meeting in reference to 30 days or something like that.
Rosie Gray: I’m just wondering if Pat could expand on what happened when Soro came onto the SC
Beathan Vale: I mean current SC members
Rosie Gray: ahem, I have the floor
Trebor Warcliffe: sorry
Rosie Gray: can you explain Pat?
Shep Titian: Smacks Trebors wrist
Patroklus Murakami: look, perspectives will differ here
Delia Lake: @ Trebor, it most certainly was the RA dropping the ball there
Patroklus Murakami: from my point of view, the sC approved soro at a time in between an old RA leaving and a new one starting
Patroklus Murakami: the RA failed to meet within 30 days to approve/disapprove
Patroklus Murakami: so soro went through without RA oversight
Delia Lake raises her hand again!
Shep Titian: Delia
Delia Lake: Pat that is simply not true.
Patroklus Murakami: i think thats pretty sneaky. RAs often fail to meet at the end of their term
Delia Lake: the RA did hold a meeting but didn’t have a quorum, and in fact although notified of Soro’s nomination did not even put his affirmation on the agenda for that meeting. it’s in the transcript of that RA meeting
Beathan Vale: Pat — I agree. I would simply remove the 30-day automatic membership period — that would put the burden on the SC to get its membes approved rather on the RA to closely scrutinize the dealings of the SC
Shep Titian: Could we say a new member is on probation until RA has had a chance to meet?
Beathan Vale: That wuold help both insitutions
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
Shep Titian: Trebor
Delia Lake: without the 30 day rule, the RA could hold up affirmations ad infinitum, just as is happening in the US Congress today
Trebor Warcliffe: I agree with Delia’s statement jsut posted
Patroklus Murakami: okay, well we could just repeal CDSL 4-8
Beathan Vale: Shep — not unless we have a whole new set of rules distinguishign full members from probationary members
Trebor Warcliffe: 30 days is plenty of time
Trebor Warcliffe: the RA is elected for 6 months they should work for 6 months
Patroklus Murakami: sometimes it’s not trebor
Patroklus Murakami: as delia said, the RA tried to meet but could not achieve a quorum
Shep Titian: No Delia not if it is written that RA hAS to vote at the earliest meeting available
Rosie Gray: hi Calli
Patroklus Murakami: then it took time for the new RA to come in and the 30 days had passed
Beathan Vale: Delia, I think that is unlikely — and I also think that a person the SC would not approve, either by active disapproval or by a failure to support, should not be on the SC
Patroklus Murakami: open to abuse by the SC in my opinion
Delia Lake: it is not the problem of the SC that the RA doesn’t always arrange for quorums
Callipygian Christensen: good morning
Shep Titian: Its not always possible Delia
Shep Titian: Hi Calli 🙂
Patroklus Murakami: hi calli. hope you brought your knuckle dusters 🙂
Beathan Vale: Delia — yes it is — it is a problem for all of us. We are a democracy. Having the SC with its current rules at the center is a serious problem. You are making me inclined to just flat out support Pat’s proposal.
Delia Lake: just as the SC has a time limit on flagging legislationpassed by the RA for review, the RA should have a timelimit for matters regarding the SC
Callipygian Christensen: I seem to have missed the posting of this meeting and its agenda
Delia Lake: i cannot believe that within a 30 day period there is not a single 10 min time on which 5 people can agree to meet
Trebor Warcliffe: Agree Delia
Beathan Vale: Calli — unfortinately, like the last RA meeting, this one met on autopilot without a posting due to the LRA’s computer problems.
Patroklus Murakami: delia. this often happens at the end of the term . we enter a ‘lame duck’ period when we can’t get a quorum
Beathan Vale: I can’t beleive that the SC needs to have the automatic approval process rather thann accept a rather modest check by a democractic institution.
Callipygian Christensen: I see you are debating the continuing ‘how they snuck Soro in’ issue?
Trebor Warcliffe: The SC does not have an automatic approval process
Patroklus Murakami: i object to the SC appointing new members during this period. it means the elected body does not get to ratify them
Patroklus Murakami: we need to change that
Trebor Warcliffe: Sure they do all they have to do is call a meeting within 30 days
Beathan Vale: Yes it does — members are automatically approved if the RA does not act. That is an automatic process than can be halted, but still and automatic process
Trebor Warcliffe: IF the RA does not act
Patroklus Murakami: but we also need to change the way we make appointments. ‘self-selected meritocracy’ really has no place in a democracy
Trebor Warcliffe: Key Point
Shep Titian: That is true Pat
Beathan Vale: Pat, I agree
Delia Lake: the RA has an automatic process for legislation passed if the SC doesn’t flag a bill
Trebor Warcliffe: There are rules already in place that address the issue. The RA has 30 days to meet.
Callipygian Christensen: May I ask who is chairing the meeting?
Rosie Gray: Shep is
Callipygian Christensen: thank you
Shep Titian: I’m meant to be
Trebor Warcliffe: Going to get my wrist smacked again
Shep Titian: You came close
Patroklus Murakami: we could make the limit 90 days. that would be *plenty* of time
Shep Titian: I would support that
Trebor Warcliffe: I wouldnt
Shep Titian: Trbor
Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
Beathan Vale: I really don’t like any time limit. If the RA does not support a candidate as demonstrated by approving them, they should be get on
Shep Titian: You don’t need to 🙂
Beathan Vale: should NOT get on I mean
Shep Titian: Yes but Beathan it can’t be left like that
Callipygian Christensen: Madam Chair – may I have the floor when it is my turn please?
Shep Titian: We can’t leave it that if we don’t say aye .. assume you’re off .. it needs a time limit
Beathan Vale: It can if we change the RA rules to have a specific section for SC business as we do for Exec business
Shep Titian: I’ll give Calli the floor
Shep Titian: Calli??
Callipygian Christensen: On Thursday I sent notecards to at, Beathan and Delia speaking to this issue and asking for a meeting (one madated by this RA) – I received no response from Beathan or Pat, so first I would like to ask if that means they do not wish to work together on a process of reform?
Callipygian Christensen: Pat, not ‘at’
Patroklus Murakami: if i may reply?
Beathan Vale: Calli — the process issues are my sticking point and why I am not currently supporting the proposal
Shep Titian: yes
Patroklus Murakami: i’m happy to meet but it is difficul to find time for all four of us to do so. i’m simply putting this on the table for discussion. this was something i committed to doing at the last election
Patroklus Murakami: and i doubt we will find a consensus between the four of us given my understanding of our views
Shep Titian: Hmmmm there has to be a way to compromise
Beathan Vale: One more idea — one problem is that the RA should be able to meet with and question SC prospects before they join the SC; putting the full burden on the RA could allow a prospect to run the clock simply by not being available. If we have a 30 day process, it should run from the time the prospect present him or herself IN PERSON before the RA for questioning with regard to SC membership.
Shep Titian: Calli do you have any changes you’d be happy with
Callipygian Christensen: Pat, I thin you would be surised now much some areas of our views agree, however putting what you have forward conerns me as yet another ‘bandaid’ that fixes the surface but doesnt deal with what is underneath
Patroklus Murakami: i disagree. i think it’s a pretty clear, comprehensive reform. there are other issues around SC procedures which im less interested in. i see those as being for the SC to sort out
Callipygian Christensen: There is a history of that happening in a lot of areas – action A looks great, but the ramifications of it show up later..its happened in elections, in citizenship.its a large part of*why* the SC needs reform to fix previous ‘fixes’
Delia Lake raises her hand again
Beathan Vale: I think we need to figure out what the SC is and is for — right now it’s rather schizophrenic
Shep Titian: Delia
Patroklus Murakami: i agree beathan
Rosie Gray: I apologize folks but I have to go… rl meeting. I request a 7 day vote on any further motions.
Shep Titian: Ok thanks Rosie
Delia Lake: yes to Beathan’s point. a couple of years ago there was a push to institute a real life judiciary. that initiative failed, imo for some very good reasons. but in the aftermath the mess was not cleaned up but sections of it remained in the law and in the constitution and was assigned to the SC, changing part of the SC purview without much thougt on the matter, again imo
Delia Lake: this whole issue needs to be sorted out
Shep Titian: It does .. certainly won’t be sorted here and now
Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we should continue the discussion on the forums? my intention was to start a discussion with a clear proposal rather than vote on it now
Shep Titian: But I can sense some coming togethers
Beathan Vale: I admit being confused about what the SC could possibly be for if not to serve a judicial function
Shep Titian: Ok .. so is everyone happy to take it to forum?
Delia Lake: the hodge podge of functions and the SC constitutional structure do not match up right now
Callipygian Christensen: Pat (I have already expressed this to Beathan) I fully support a reform of the SC that identifies clearly and simply what it does and how it does it – but I want it to address all of those odds and ends of old legislation and process so that it isnt handicapped from the get go
Beathan Vale: otherwise it seems to have a theoretical, academic function rather than a governemental one — kind of a think tank — but if so, why is it in governemnt and the Constitution
Beathan Vale: and why does it need a formal mandate rather than just being a discussion group
Shep Titian: Ok I’m calling this one for now
Shep Titian: it needs adressing in a very detailed manner
Beathan Vale: I will put together some ideas and post on the forums — springboarding from my discussion with Calli —
Patroklus Murakami: great!
Beathan Vale: but I have different points of emphasis, so it will be different
Shep Titian: Good thanks Beathan
Callipygian Christensen: Beathan, I wuld love to address that question but we’d be here all day..I hope we get the chance to do so though.
Shep Titian: We would expect nothing less Beathan 🙂
Shep Titian: ok . I have a slightly contentious one
Shep Titian: Term lenths .. do we still need them?
Delia Lake: please lets have the discussion of purpose before structure
Beathan Vale: Delia, I agree with that
Beathan Vale: I don’t like term limits — but we don’t have enough active candidates
Shep Titian: That’s my point
Beathan Vale: But I think the wobbling between having them and not is problematic
Callipygian Christensen: and please can we all read some ofthe history as to the’wy’ of the SC
Trebor Warcliffe: Beathan didnt you support term limits the last time it was approved?
Patroklus Murakami: if we are on to the next topic? i move that we repeal CDSL 13-07 Term Limits Act
Beathan Vale: I mean I support term limits
Beathan Vale: I don’t support having the same people run again and again
Shep Titian: Rosie can’t stand for the next RA .. I’m not assuming she would want to .. but we are short falling as it is
Trebor Warcliffe: Neither do I but when its only the same people who choose to participate than what do you do?
Beathan Vale: But, we need candidates. Rather than constantly turn term limits on or off — I would suggest adding a period in which an otherwise term limited cnadidate can declare if there are insufficient candidates to have a contested election
Patroklus Murakami waits to hear a seconder…
Shep Titian: So you support no one .. rather than one who is willing but has sat already?
Beathan Vale: Say — the week following the ordinary candidate declaratioons
Trebor Warcliffe: More drama that’s not needed
Shep Titian: Sorry Pat .. second
Beathan Vale: Shep — no I think we need balance between leaving the door open but working to make sure the room is not emplty
Trebor Warcliffe: If you dont want teh same people running again and again than get more poeple involved
Beathan Vale: I don’t see how that would produce drama
Patroklus Murakami: i’m opposed to term limits full stop. they lead to what we have now – good ppl who are ineligible due to a short-sighted rule
Trebor Warcliffe: EXACTLY PAT
Patroklus Murakami: why can’t we just let ppl choose?
Trebor Warcliffe: YUP
Shep Titian: Trebor!
Patroklus Murakami: if the same old faces keep standing ppl can choose to vote or not vote for them?
Beathan Vale: well — I oppose full abolition of term limits, although I would approve a process to abrogate it in favor of contested elections if there is a shortage of candidates
Trebor Warcliffe: Correct, if youre not hapy with who is in officwe than get more people involved
Patroklus Murakami: that just sounds too complicated to me beathan. let’s keep it simple eh? 🙂
Beathan Vale: touchee
Patroklus Murakami: LOL!
Shep Titian: As with everything it can be changed l;ater
Trebor Warcliffe: Which gets rather redundant I might add. This term yes next term no.
Shep Titian: I don’t see a plethora of new people coming along and getting involved .. I can only think of one at present
Shep Titian: Trebor!
Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Shep?
Shep Titian: You did’nt ask to speak
Trebor Warcliffe: My apologies.
Shep Titian: Thank you
Shep Titian: We don’t have a constitutional quorum here now do we
Patroklus Murakami: no. but we can still vote
Patroklus Murakami: anna and rosie’s votes may then decide it
Shep Titian: Ok .. well I want everyone who wants to be involved to be able to .. so Pat please put your proposal
Patroklus Murakami: ok
Patroklus Murakami: i move that we repeal CDSL 13-07 Term Limits Act
Shep Titian: I had seconded .. so call a vgote .. I vote aye
Beathan Vale: nay
Patroklus Murakami: i vote aye
Patroklus Murakami: down to rosie and anna 🙂
Shep Titian: Okay .. Anna and Rosie have 7 day on this
Shep Titian: Moving on .. do we have any commission reports?
Patroklus Murakami: none i’m aware of
Patroklus Murakami: brb
Shep Titian: ok … Trebor .. exec report?
Trebor Warcliffe: None today
Shep Titian: ok … I’m not aware of any general announcements
Trebor Warcliffe: I have to go see everyone later
Shep Titian: So next meeting ?
Shep Titian: Bye Trebor
Beathan Vale: Two weeks?
Beathan Vale: We need to get moving on the new sim
Shep Titian: ok 12th June 9 am??
Beathan Vale: Second
Patroklus Murakami: june???
Shep Titian: yes we do .. Anna was doing that
Beathan Vale: gack — right
Beathan Vale: May
Fern Leissa: hehe
Shep Titian: sorry lol
Shep Titian: May
Patroklus Murakami: ok to may 🙂
Shep Titian: cool
Shep Titian: so adjourn say aye
Shep Titian: aye
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Beathan Vale: aye

Permalink.

RA Meeting 12 May 2012

Agenda for RA meeting of Saturday 12th May 2012 at 9a.m.

– Administrative Business
— Review and approve agenda (5 min.)
— Speakers on today’s agenda items? (5 min)
– Citizen Concerns (5 min)
– RA Members’ Concerns (5 min)

– Old Business
1) revisiting the proposals and vote on limiting the RA to 5 seats .. (10 mins)

2) revisiting the proposal and vote on removing term limits .. (10 mins)

Both the above original proposals can be seen in the transcript of the RA meeting of 28th April which has subsequently been called invalid by the SC ..
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=3803

– New Business

— Proposals …….
1) proposal for a revised ‘Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act’ and a Constitutional Amendment to enact SC reform from Patroklus.murakami..
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3155&start=15#p19764

2) “Reinforcing the Balance of Power Act” from Gwynneth Llewelyn
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3155&p=19768#p19768

*note New business Proposals are left untimed .. discretion will be used …

– Commission Reports (5 min)
– Executive Report (10 min)
– General Announcements (5 min)
– Next RA Meeting? (5 min)
– Adjourn

Summary:

    1. The RA voted (again) to amend the Constitution to set the number of RA seats at five.

 

    Ayes – Anna, Patroklus, Rosie, Shep.

 

    Beathan has a 7-day vote but, with four votes, the Constitutional Amendment passes.
    2. The RA voted (again) to repeal CDSL 13-07 Term Limits Act

 

    Ayes – Patroklus, Rosie, Shep.

 

    Nays – Anna.

 

    Beathan has a 7-day vote but the proposal passes.
    3. The RA agreed to refer proposals for SC reform to the joint RA/SC committee and requested they come back with a proposal in time for the next RA meeting on 26 May. The RA (and SC members present and the Chancellor) invited Sudane to join the committee.

 

    The transcript of the joint committee has been posted

here

    .
    4. The proposed ‘Reinforcing the Balance of Powers Act’ failed for lack of a second. Discussion can continue on the forums. Delia agreed to set up a separate thread.
    5. The RA agreed to meet again on 26 May at 9am SLT in the Praetorium, Colonia Nova.

  • Anna Toussaint: ok, let;’s get started folks
    Shep Titian: So we three might be egless by the end of thisw!!
    Anna Toussaint: has everybody had a chabce to see the agenda
    Anna Toussaint: chance?
    Patroklus Murakami: yes ty anna
    Shep Titian: Yes 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: any corrections, additions, gripes or bitches?
    Pip Torok: i have …
    Patroklus Murakami: none from me
    Anna Toussaint: k
    Anna Toussaint: what. Pip?
    Shep Titian: none
    Anna Toussaint: Pip?
    Anna Toussaint: going once, going twice ,…
    Pip Torok: only to ask for speaking to oldbiz 1
    Anna Toussaint: oh, ok
    Anna Toussaint: so we’re all happy with the agenda?
    Patroklus Murakami: yes
    Anna Toussaint: I’d like to thank Shep for putting it together, btw, and apologize to the RA for my absences lately
    Shep Titian: YW
    Anna Toussaint: computer problems and a move have kept me busy
    Anna Toussaint: but the computer has been fixed
    Anna Toussaint: hi, rosie
    Shep Titian: Hi Rosie hun 🙂
    Patroklus Murakami: hi rosie
    Rosie Gray: hi everyone, sorry to be late
    Lilith Ivory: Hi Rosie
    Pip Torok: good and congrats, Anna
    Anna Toussaint: ok, who’s goiung to speak for these agenda items?
    Anna Toussaint: Pip for #1, know
    Pip Torok: me on OB1 as ive mentioned
    Patroklus Murakami: happy to speak to my items
    Anna Toussaint: I know
    Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
    Anna Toussaint: k, Calli dropped me a note
    Anna Toussaint: CalliL?
    Anna Toussaint: Calli?
    Callipygian Christensen: I hope to speak to all notion on the floor today..and to save time, here is a link to my reponse to Pat’s amended motions for today
    Callipygian Christensen: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3155&start=45#p19805
    Anna Toussaint: great, thanks!
    Delia Lake raises her hand re New Business regarding the SC
    Delia Lake: and also the Balance of Power Act
    Anna Toussaint: ok, got it,. Delia, thanks!
    Lilith Ivory is not sure yet but might want to speak also
    Soro Dagostino raises hand
    Anna Toussaint: thanks, Lil, Soro?
    Soro Dagostino: I will likely want time to speak.
    Anna Toussaint: ok
    Anna Toussaint: any citizen concerns?
    Anna Toussaint: RA members concerns?
    Patroklus Murakami: none from me
    Anna Toussaint: which is kinda redundant,. I guess
    Anna Toussaint: Rosie is here to take care of our mouse problem
    Anna Toussaint: 🙂
    Shep Titian: nope am fine
    Anna Toussaint: As Beathan is not here, we’ll do a seven-day vote
    Rosie Gray: ?
    Anna Toussaint: ok, on to old business
    Anna Toussaint: Calli, would you speak to the SCs decision regarding the legality of the last meeting?
    Callipygian Christensen: Ok Anna
    Callipygian Christensen: The SC found the meeting of April 28th t be invalid, therefore any business conducted during that meeting is also invalid
    Callipygian Christensen: done
    Anna Toussaint: thank you, Calli
    Patroklus Murakami: i move we revote on the proposal to limit the RA to five seats
    Anna Toussaint: so that is why we are revisiting old buisiness items 1 and 2
    Anna Toussaint: ok, is there a second?
    Rosie Gray: I will second that motion
    Anna Toussaint: discussion?
    Pip Torok raises hand
    Anna Toussaint: pip?
    Pip Torok: i ask the RA to reconsider OB1 for the same reason as i support revoking OB2 ..
    Anna Toussaint: by reconsider, you mean vote it down this time?
    Pip Torok: and that is the practical difficulties of working with only a quorate limit of 5 ..
    Anna Toussaint: ah
    Anna Toussaint: ok
    Pip Torok: in the background of current financial constraints and consequent apathy done
    Rosie Gray: can you expand on the practical difficulties, Pip?
    Patroklus Murakami recalls that we had the most difficulty getting quorate meetings when we had larger RAs
    Pip Torok: yes .. given the smallish number of registered voters and the infrequency (as today) of many ppl logging-in .. done
    Anna Toussaint: actually, we have a quorate meeting now …
    Patroklus Murakami: i move that we vote on this. i can repost the original CA if you like
    Patroklus Murakami: i move we amend article 1 section 2 of the constitution so that instead of “The number of representative seats in the RA is equal to the odd whole number nearest to 10% of the population, rounded down, with a minimum of five seats and a maximum of forty seats.” it reads “The number of representative seats in the RA is equal to five”
    Pip Torok: the question is .. how often will we have one in any given term
    Anna Toussaint: we have had them in every meeting
    Patroklus Murakami: our record has been pretty good this term – with five members
    Anna Toussaint: Pat has moved to call the question …
    Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
    Pip Torok: i conceded that with the observation that
    Shep Titian: second
    Pip Torok: it depends on the RIGHT choice of ppl on the RA
    Anna Toussaint: true
    Anna Toussaint: but there is a motion to call the question, so all in favor say “aye”
    Pip Torok: i should say the RIGHT combination of ppl and how they cooperate
    Shep Titian: aye
    Patroklus Murakami: aye
    Rosie Gray: aye
    Pip Torok: (sorry)
    Anna Toussaint: all opposed vote naye
    Anna Toussaint: the chair votes nay
    Anna Toussaint: the ayes have it
    Anna Toussaint: we will vote on the original motion
    Anna Toussaint: all in favor, vote “aye”
    Patroklus Murakami: aye
    Rosie Gray: aye
    Shep Titian: aye
    Anna Toussaint: the chaIr votes aye
    Anna Toussaint: the constitution has been amended
    Shep Titian: 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: by a vote of 80% of the RA
    Anna Toussaint: now onto old business item #2
    Patroklus Murakami: i move that we repeal CDSL 13-07 Term Limits Act
    Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
    Shep Titian: second
    Anna Toussaint: discussion?
    Anna Toussaint: anybody in the gallery care to comment?
    Rosie Gray: I’m still reading Calli’s post
    Anna Toussaint: k
    Callipygian Christensen: Rosie..that is relevant to later stuff
    Delia Lake raises her hand
    Rosie Gray: ah okay
    Rosie Gray: sorry, yes Term Limits
    Anna Toussaint: Delia?
    Delia Lake: I don’t feel overly strongly about this but just want to put out that sometimes it’s good for politicians to have a break from a position for a term and then return with fresh eyes
    Rosie Gray couldn’t argue with that
    Anna Toussaint: thank you, Delia
    Anna Toussaint: anybody else want to speak to this?
    Anna Toussaint: ok
    Anna Toussaint: all in favor, say “aye”
    Patroklus Murakami: aye
    Pip Torok: only to say that theses breaks can be taken without needing to enforce termlimits
    Shep Titian: Aye
    Rosie Gray: aye
    Anna Toussaint: all opposed say “nay”
    Anna Toussaint: the chair vote “nay”
    Anna Toussaint: there is a seven day vote
    Rosie Gray: ahem
    Anna Toussaint: and as a constitutional amendment, it requires 60%
    Anna Toussaint: yes>
    Anna Toussaint: did I screw up?
    Patroklus Murakami thinks it’s only a bill
    Rosie Gray: lol, no
    Patroklus Murakami: so, has passed 🙂
    Rosie Gray: think I maybe did
    Anna Toussaint: ah, is it?
    Anna Toussaint: I thought the term limits were constitutional
    Patroklus Murakami: no, just a bill
    Anna Toussaint: shows why I shouldn’t be on the SC 🙂
    Shep Titian: I’d agree .. constitutional
    Anna Toussaint: but if they’re not in the constituion, then they’re not
    Anna Toussaint: she says intelligently
    Shep Titian: lol
    Patroklus Murakami: the original was a bill, not a Const Amendment
    Anna Toussaint: so, the motion has passed with three votes “aye”
    Anna Toussaint: 🙂
    Shep Titian: Good
    Anna Toussaint: 🙂
    Patroklus Murakami: i’m sure the SC will let us know if we got it wrong 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: I would HOPE so …
    Patroklus Murakami waits for anna
    Rosie Gray: oh oh
    Patroklus Murakami: oh, we lost her 🙁
    Rosie Gray regurgitates some rat meat to chew on
    Shep Titian: Lmao
    Patroklus Murakami: now *that* has never been said in an RA meeting before!
    Rosie Gray: ?
    Patroklus Murakami: shall we give her a minute to relog?
    Rosie Gray: I think we should
    Pip Torok: and maybe never again? .. :] Patroklus Murakami: *lot* to get through today…
    Rosie Gray: yay!
    Shep Titian: And Breathe 🙂
    Patroklus Murakami: wb anna 🙂
    Shep Titian: wb hun 🙂
    Pip Torok: wb
    Callipygian Christensen: I cant even bring myself to say the usual ‘did you bring enough for evveryone?’
    Anna Toussaint: sorry bout that
    Anna Toussaint: sorry bout that
    Shep Titian: * listens to the crunching of tiny bones 😀
    Anna Toussaint: where were we?
    Patroklus Murakami: i move the revised ‘Scientific council affirmation procedures act’ outlined here:
    Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3155&start=45#p19802
    Shep Titian: Teehee
    Patroklus Murakami: new biz item 1)
    Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
    Shep Titian: I believe old business was concluded
    Anna Toussaint: 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: thanks 🙂
    Rosie Gray: so seconded
    Anna Toussaint: ok, discussion?
    Patroklus Murakami: may i?
    Anna Toussaint: yes
    Patroklus Murakami: so, we have two reform proposals related tot eh SC to consider
    Patroklus Murakami: the first is this bill, the second a constitutional amendment
    Patroklus Murakami: the bill can pass without needing the CA
    Patroklus Murakami: the purpose of the bill is to make sure that candidate SC members are always considered by the RA and a vote taken (in line with the constitution)
    Patroklus Murakami: it closes the loophole left by NL 4-8 where this oversight could be bypassed
    Soro Dagostino raises hand
    Patroklus Murakami: by accident or design 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: are you finished, pat?
    Patroklus Murakami: one more thing
    Anna Toussaint: k
    Patroklus Murakami: it opens up nominations to all citizens. the sC would provide advice to the RA on candidates but would not be able to filter them as at present. done 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: Soro?
    Soro Dagostino: I believe the process is constitutional. And needs that vote to pass.
    Anna Toussaint: does it modify the constitution?
    Patroklus Murakami: NL 4-8 is a bill, not a constituional amendment. this is not a constitutional amendment either
    Patroklus Murakami: unless you want to argue that NL 4-8 was unconstitutional? 🙂
    Soro Dagostino: Respectfully disagree.
    Delia Lake raises her hand
    Anna Toussaint: Delia?
    Patroklus Murakami: actually i need to correct a mistake in my presentation. i may have misled you (including soro)
    Anna Toussaint: first Delia, then Pat
    Delia Lake: although the bill may be positioned as a replacement/negation of the Affirmation law, it also would materially affect the constitutionally described right of the SC tas a “a self-selected meritocracy. Its governmental role is to interpret and enforce the constitution. ”
    Anna Toussaint: done?
    Anna Toussaint: Pat?
    Soro Dagostino raises hand
    Anna Toussaint: first Pat, then Soro
    Patroklus Murakami: apologies, my presentation contained an inaccuracy
    Patroklus Murakami: the bill *does not* alllow anyone to nominate sc members
    Patroklus Murakami: that is in the constitutional amendment
    Anna Toussaint: good ,… I thought I was missing something
    Anna Toussaint: 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: Soro?
    Patroklus Murakami: what i intended to say is – regardless of whether we continue with the current ‘self selection’ or refrom the system, teh bill ensure that every candidate faces a vote of confidence by the RA
    Soro Dagostino: I agree with the point made by Delia.
    Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
    Delia Lake raises her hand again
    Anna Toussaint: Calli?
    Soro Dagostino: The “legislation” intrudes on the constitutional right of the SC to appoint its own members.
    Patroklus Murakami would like to hear *how* this bill affects the constitutuion. it does not
    Anna Toussaint: oh, sorry … thought you were done
    Callipygian Christensen will wait for the exchange between Pat and Soro to end
    Patroklus Murakami: done 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: k
    Soro Dagostino: done.
    Anna Toussaint: Calli?
    Callipygian Christensen: I posted a link earlier to my thoughts on both the bill and amendment
    Callipygian Christensen: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3155&start=45#p19805
    Patroklus Murakami raises hand
    Callipygian Christensen: I believe this bill potentially cripples the SC for long periods of time, sets the scene for a refusal to affirm based on reasons not related to upholding the Consitution..
    Callipygian Christensen: and will ultimately discourage good candiates from standing
    Callipygian Christensen: In addition, the -no vote = fail’ just rpelaces the ability for the RA to subvert the process in the way it claims the SC has done
    Anna Toussaint: Pat, would you comment on how you feel the SC has subverted the process?
    Callipygian Christensen: I dont believe amending this bill is the answer..I believe it should be defeated and a join committee should dvelop a practical, clear replacement
    Callipygian Christensen: done
    Anna Toussaint: thank you … sorry
    Anna Toussaint: the chair will remind the body that originally, we had settled on a joint committee
    Soro Dagostino: /raises hand
    Patroklus Murakami: i think the SC is *able* to subvert the process by proposing candidates at a time when they know the RA will find it difficult to meet. the 30 day rule then kicks in and the RA is unable to provide a vote of confidence *as in the constitution*
    Anna Toussaint: I believe that is still in effect
    Anna Toussaint: has that ever happened?
    Patroklus Murakami: hold on a minute. the RA is free to bring forward its own proposals
    Callipygian Christensen: what times does the RA find it ‘difficult to meet’?
    Anna Toussaint: it is
    Patroklus Murakami: this was in my manifesto and beathan’s
    Patroklus Murakami: and i have met with the SC on several occasions
    Anna Toussaint: but, we agreed on a joint committee
    Anna Toussaint: what are the results of that?
    Patroklus Murakami: it is clear we could not find a proposal acceptable to all
    Delia Lake raises her hand in objection
    Anna Toussaint: Delia?
    Delia Lake: we never met as a whole committee of 4!
    Patroklus Murakami: 2. The RA discussed the Scientific Council. It was proposed that Calli and Delia (for the SC) and Beathan and Pat (for the RA) should work together on draft proposals for discussion on reforming the way the SC does its work.
    Patroklus Murakami: from 7 january meeting
    Delia Lake: we met me, Pat and Calli, and Calli met with Beathan
    Anna Toussaint: yes, I remember
    Delia Lake: but never during this term did we meet as the whole committee.
    Delia Lake: When Reform of the Scientific Council was raised in the RA this term, the RA set up a committee to look into this matter. Assigned to this Committee was Pat, Beathan, Calli and Delia (me). During this past term we did not meet ever as a whole group. We did discuss 1 on 1 and 3 together but not as all 4 together, so there are no official findings out of this Committee. It is my opinion that if this were such a burning issue that it must be accomplished this term, folks could have made a more concerted effort to find time for working out SC reforms as a committee. Instead, RA members have rushed to propose and pass their ideas of what constitutes SC reform circumventing the democratic process of the Committee which in the past has included public hearings regarding matters of a significant Constitutional change.
    Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
    Anna Toussaint: was there a specific reason it did not meet?
    Patroklus Murakami: difficult to find a time for all four of us to meet. very different time zones for some of us and limited availablity
    Delia Lake: I was willing to meet at many different times and many different hours. even what would normally have been my sleeping hours
    Patroklus Murakami: i don’t accept this is a valid reason not to consider SC reform
    Delia Lake: Calli, you were trying to arrange meeting times and may wish to speak to that
    Patroklus Murakami: also, there was a difference in interests
    Anna Toussaint: Calli has been trying to speK
    Anna Toussaint: speak
    Patroklus Murakami: i’m interested in reforming the SC as an institution
    Anna Toussaint: Calli?
    Delia Lake: excuse me Pat? setting up a RA committee, then circumventing it is not a valid reason not to push ahead?
    Patroklus Murakami: others want to reform sC procerures
    Callipygian Christensen: thank you Anna
    Anna Toussaint: Calli has the floor
    Patroklus Murakami raises hand
    Delia Lake: you! determined that there was a difference in interests all by yourself. Pat
    Callipygian Christensen: There was ‘fault’ on both sides of the join commitee if fault must be found
    Callipygian Christensen: Time diferences, availability, lack of response, RL cutting in to time to research and draft..
    Callipygian Christensen: I will take the blame for that, since i was the one trying to arrange meetings
    Callipygian Christensen: Instead of both ‘sides’ circling the wagons and laying blame, can we cut the rhetoric and accept, the committee did not meet and did not do its job..
    Callipygian Christensen: reinstaet it * with timeframes* and lets get a true picture of what people see as good reform
    Callipygian Christensen: ‘we wont ever agree so why bother’ is not a good reason to pass major legilation in haste imo
    Anna Toussaint: as far as I know, it has not been DE-instated
    Anna Toussaint: Pat?
    Anna Toussaint: who is correct, btw, that a motion may be brought at any time by any RA member
    Callipygian Christensen: I speak for myself as Dean, and state that the SC desires good reform of its roles and processes, but does not accept the right of another branch of govt to dicatet hose changes completely
    Anna Toussaint: and there is one one the floor, and we will vote on it if it is not withdrawn
    Soro Dagostino: me/raises hand
    Anna Toussaint: sorry Calli, I jumped the gun
    Callipygian Christensen: Done
    Anna Toussaint: pat, then soro
    Delia Lake raises her hand again
    Patroklus Murakami: having met with beathan, delia and calli (tho not all together) it became clear to me that we would not be able to reach a consensus. the SC is an unelected body and some members want to preserve their privileges and resist reform. so it became clear to me that the RA would need to act. i posted proposals in line with my manifesto and we discussed this on the forums.
    Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
    Patroklus Murakami: it is the right of the ra to consider constitutional reform and it is not bound by the SC on this. we do not need to ask permission to do what we were elected to do. and i’m afraid that calli’s proposals just kick this to the long grass.
    Patroklus Murakami: done
    Anna Toussaint: Soro, then Deliam, then Treb
    Soro Dagostino: Madame LRA . . .
    Anna Toussaint: 🙂
    Soro Dagostino: I submit the action requested in the motion on the floor is a constitutional matter.
    Soro Dagostino: I note that as a member of the SC I will ask that it be flagged for review by the SC.
    Anna Toussaint: well. if the RA votes it, the SC can declare it unconstitutional
    Anna Toussaint: L:)
    Anna Toussaint: 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: Done, Soro?
    Soro Dagostino: Done on that issue — unless Pat speaks to it again.
    Anna Toussaint: Delia?
    Delia Lake: 2 different issues regarding this here from me. firstly, I take issue with Pat’s statement above. The only meeting, in fact the only discussion I had with him this term was with Calli present as well. since Beathan could not make it the 3 of us agreed to have a purely informational discussion–i’m looking right now at my transcript of that meeting.
    Delia Lake: and I would like to know on what basis Pat claims that the SC is not interested in reform because in my conversations with my SC colleagues we do beliefe that some reform and reevaluation is in order
    Delia Lake: Secondly, to speak directly to the proposed bill again
    Delia Lake: In the Constitution, The RA provides a vote of confidence on candidates to the Philosophic branch. This vote is in regards to their perceived likelihood to uphold the constitution.
    Pat?s proposed bill ?the SC shall evaluate the candidates and shall inform the RA of the results of such evaluations.? And ?The RA shall vote on all candidates. The SC shall seat the candidates in order of approval by the RA.?
    Delia Lake: so I am very very concerned that not only does this bill impinge on constitutional matters but also that there would be room for the RA to deep six someone who was eminently qualified and willing but with whom a voting minority of RA had personality problems. right now the sole criteria for affirmation of the SC nominees has to do with their ability and willingness to uphold the constitution, as I believe it should be.
    Rosie Gray raises hand
    Anna Toussaint: Trebor, then Rosie
    Delia Lake: if it were to be found that the sole qualification of a nominee to the SC was “friend of current SC member” the RA could refuse affirmation on the grounds of not able to uphold the constitution due to lack of constitutional knowledge
    Patroklus Murakami raises hand
    Soro Dagostino: And can we all agree that Pat hates Soro’s guts.
    Anna Toussaint: Pat?
    Rosie Gray raises woolly eyebrows
    Anna Toussaint: Pat? 🙂
    Shep Titian: Tsk
    Patroklus Murakami: i withdraw the motion. i propose that we refer this to the joint RA/SC commitee for consideration
    Delia Lake didn’t know feathers and wool mixed on one creature…
    Anna Toussaint: thank you pat ,…
    Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
    Pip Torok wd prefer seemly and apposite remarks
    Anna Toussaint: ok, Trebor, then Rosie
    Anna Toussaint: then Calli
    Shep Titian: Thank you Pat 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: I will, btw, entertain a motion that we put time limits on the committee’s work, and perhaps add or replace members who can find a time
    Trebor Warcliffe: Seeing that Pat has withdrawn the motion for the time being I have nothing to contribute. I will say we have some very scholary citizens in the CDS (Gwynn, josjosa) so I would encourage as much participation as possibel considerign the seriousness of reforming an entire branch of the government. TY
    Trebor Warcliffe: DONE
    Patroklus Murakami: well, it should report back before our next meeting in, i assume, two weeks time
    Anna Toussaint: we can stipulate that
    Anna Toussaint: Rosie?
    Rosie Gray: I was going to make a motion that we send this questiohn back to the RA/SC commission
    Anna Toussaint: ah ok
    Rosie Gray: but now that is redundant
    Anna Toussaint: Callli?
    Anna Toussaint: but with two “l’s”
    Callipygian Christensen: I thank Pat for withdrawing this and ending it to committee – I I ask that we meet within the next week to discuss this and ask that you and Beathan provide a set of times that work for both of you
    Delia Lake raises her hand again
    Anna Toussaint: who’s schedule was the primary hold-up?
    Callipygian Christensen: Delia and I will hopefully be able to find one that we are also both available, so more than one suitable time would be beneficial
    Callipygian Christensen: Done
    Patroklus Murakami: i will do that calli offline 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: whose schedule was the primary hold-up?
    Callipygian Christensen: Anna, with respect, I think we should focus on shceduling upcomingmeetings, not rehash past failures.
    Soro Dagostino: me/raises hand
    Anna Toussaint: no rehashing ,… just trying to come up with a committee that can meet
    Anna Toussaint: or a majority
    Callipygian Christensen: The committee already exists
    Anna Toussaint: if we add a member, then I would feel better if they meet with four out of five, say
    Soro Dagostino: 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: does that make sense?
    Callipygian Christensen: If you add a member, i would suggest it be a citizen not sitting on either body at this time or hlding other office
    Anna Toussaint: I agree
    Callipygian Christensen: holding
    Patroklus Murakami: i would hate for us not to take this forward just because of scheduling difficulties
    Callipygian Christensen: lol..’hiding’ would be a totally different matter
    Anna Toussaint: yes
    Anna Toussaint: I agree pat
    Anna Toussaint: so, let’s add a member from the community
    Rosie Gray: ?
    Anna Toussaint: and specify that the committee can do it’s business with 4 out of 5
    Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
    Anna Toussaint: could be
    Anna Toussaint: how ’bout you, Lil?
    Patroklus Murakami: gwyn is rarely online these days.
    Anna Toussaint: true
    Lilith Ivory: I?m a member of the SC 😉
    Anna Toussaint: oops
    Anna Toussaint: sorry
    Anna Toussaint: forgot
    Lilith Ivory: no problem 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: is Pip a member?
    Pip Torok: no
    Callipygian Christensen: Sudane just logged in
    Lilith Ivory: he might be one soon
    Lilith Ivory: of RA
    Anna Toussaint: are you suggesting Sudane, Calli
    Anna Toussaint: true
    Callipygian Christensen: she is a long time citizen and tends to call a spade a spade
    Trebor Warcliffe: yes she does
    Anna Toussaint: ok, will you ask her, Calli?
    Rosie Gray: I think Sudane would be an excellent choice, if she would agree
    Patroklus Murakami: sudane would be great. if she’s interested 🙂
    Delia Lake: agreed
    Callipygian Christensen: just throwing out potential names of citizens i think all might agree are unbiased and knowledgable
    Callipygian Christensen: ok
    Callipygian Christensen: Sending an IM..so perhps something can continue while I do so
    Trebor Warcliffe: “Paging Sudane, Sudane please join us at the Praetorium
    Trebor Warcliffe: lol
    Pip Torok: 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: ok, let’s go on to the constitutional amendment
    Anna Toussaint: does someone want to move it?
    Patroklus Murakami: i withdraw that too
    Soro Dagostino: me/raises hand
    Patroklus Murakami: i suggest we ask the commission to look at all of this
    Anna Toussaint: ok … it hadn’t been moved, so no wihdrawal necessary
    Anna Toussaint: Soro?
    Soro Dagostino: Same thought madame LRA
    Anna Toussaint: 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: great minds …
    Anna Toussaint: ok
    Anna Toussaint: any commission reports?
    Patroklus Murakami: we have gwyn’s proposal too new biz 2)
    Anna Toussaint: does anyone want to move it?
    Soro Dagostino: me/raises hand
    Delia Lake: I would like to speak to that one
    Anna Toussaint: well, if it doesn’t get moved, there is no discussion necessary …
    Anna Toussaint: anybody want to move it?
    Anna Toussaint: I hear a deathly silence …
    Rosie Gray: hmmm
    Shep Titian: * whistles
    Anna Toussaint: yeeesssss?
    Anna Toussaint: ok
    Anna Toussaint: no motion
    Rosie Gray: I have to read it
    Delia Lake raises her hand
    Anna Toussaint: soro, then delia
    Soro Dagostino: me/raises hand
    Soro Dagostino: Thank you Madame LRA
    Anna Toussaint: soro was first earlier
    Soro Dagostino: The subject matter should be considered by the commission.
    Patroklus Murakami: i disagree 🙂
    Soro Dagostino: Gwyn has a history that needs to be reviewed.
    Rosie Gray raises hand
    Anna Toussaint: do you then wish to move it, Pat?
    Patroklus Murakami: okay, i move it 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: is there a second?
    Anna Toussaint: Soro,. you still have the floor
    Anna Toussaint: Hi, Sudane 🙂
    Lilith Ivory: Hi Sudane
    Sudane Erato: hi 🙂
    Rosie Gray: ?
    Trebor Warcliffe: Sudane’s ears must have been burning right off her scalp lol
    Soro Dagostino: If the matter fails for lack of a second, I suspect Gwyn will make her feelings known.
    Anna Toussaint: oh, well
    Sudane Erato: they were… with help 🙂
    Soro Dagostino: 40 pages of it.
    Rosie Gray: lol
    Anna Toussaint: 🙂
    Soro Dagostino: It will be hard for the commission to ignore her comments.
    Anna Toussaint: seeing that there isa no second, I rule that the proposal is moot
    Trebor Warcliffe: Gwynn’s my literary idol I wish I could write that much LOL
    Patroklus Murakami raises hand
    Soro Dagostino: So, Madame LRA —
    Callipygian Christensen would suggest that lacking a second, the discussion of it moes to the Forums
    Anna Toussaint: the committee cadn talk about whatever iut wants
    Anna Toussaint: I agree with Calli
    Rosie Gray thanks everyone for not writing as much as Gwyn each time they want to make a point
    Anna Toussaint: yes soro?
    Delia Lake: I agree with Calli’s point also
    Soro Dagostino: Point made.
    Anna Toussaint: 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: Pat?
    Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think this is relevant for the commision. the issue is ‘reform of the SC’ and this is out of scope. we should beware ‘scope creep’.
    Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
    Delia Lake: with Gwyn’s permission I’ll copy her post re balance of powers to a separate and easily findable thread
    Anna Toussaint: I have one comment ,… it’s not a commission, it’s a committee
    Delia Lake agrees it is out of scope re SC reform
    Patroklus Murakami: i stand corrected 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: a commission is made up of members of one body
    Anna Toussaint: a committee cannot bring a motion as a commision can
    Anna Toussaint: Sudane, are you willing to join this committee
    Anna Toussaint: ?
    Sudane Erato: yes… with reluctance. 🙂
    Soro Dagostino: LOL
    Anna Toussaint: noted and understood 🙂
    Rosie Gray: 😛
    Anna Toussaint: ok, the RA advises the committee not to discuss Gwyns amendment
    Anna Toussaint: don’t mention it
    Anna Toussaint: never let it cross your lips
    Anna Toussaint: 🙂
    Trebor Warcliffe: lol
    Soro Dagostino: HAHAAH
    Rosie Gray: 0;0
    Callipygian Christensen: I’d like to insert here that Sudane as a membr was supported by both the SC representatives and the RA representative prsent.
    Trebor Warcliffe: And the Chancellor
    Anna Toussaint: thank you, Calli
    Trebor Warcliffe: Whatever thats worth lol
    Anna Toussaint: and the third branch as well
    Anna Toussaint: 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: ol
    Callipygian Christensen: unanimous support..I think we just declared you EMpress Sudane 🙂
    Trebor Warcliffe: I have to give her something to yell at me about. Ive been behaving myself to well lately.
    Sudane Erato: lol… forget it! 🙂
    Rosie Gray: hehehe
    Callipygian Christensen: oh,and i agree..Gwyn’s proposal is out of scope for the committee
    Shep Titian: 🙂
    Anna Toussaint: all hail her supreme empress-ness
    Sudane Erato: pfft
    Anna Toussaint: now, commission reports?
    Anna Toussaint: trebor? hopefull short?
    Trebor Warcliffe: heyyyyy
    Anna Toussaint: it is 5 minutes till the witching hour
    Anna Toussaint: but we started a few minutes late
    Trebor Warcliffe: We had a wonderful gathering yesterday thanks to Shep for pulling that together
    Shep Titian: YVW
    Anna Toussaint: I am sorry I missed it 🙁
    Patroklus Murakami: it was fun. ty shep 🙂
    Sudane Erato: TY Shep!! 🙂
    Shep Titian: 🙂
    Trebor Warcliffe: I’d really like to encourage everyone to talk to your fellow citizens to contribute a little more time and effort this upcoming term
    Trebor Warcliffe: We have a lot on our plates and could benefit from everyones contributions.
    Trebor Warcliffe: I think thats all for now.
    Anna Toussaint: thanks, herr chancellor
    Pip Torok: I’d like to propose a vote of thanks to our LRA for her work this term!
    Anna Toussaint: oh, pshaw
    Rosie Gray: 😀
    Delia Lake was really sorry to miss the event also. couldn’t get inworld at all yesterday
    Patroklus Murakami: it’s not over yet folks!
    Anna Toussaint: I messed up as often as I helped
    Rosie Gray: I’d second Pip’s proposal
    Anna Toussaint: ok, there’s a motion … is this the last meeting of this RA?
    Patroklus Murakami: hip hip hurray for the LRA but… we have one meeting yet!
    Sudane Erato: i strongly agree with Pip’s proposal!
    Pip Torok: we do?
    Patroklus Murakami: i move we meet again in two weeks time
    Anna Toussaint: sounds good … everybody agree?
    Rosie Gray: do we?
    Patroklus Murakami: the new RA does not begin until 1 June
    Rosie Gray: so we are talking about May 26?
    Anna Toussaint: when is the vote?
    Patroklus Murakami: yes
    Anna Toussaint: that would be it
    Shep Titian: 2 weeks is fine for me
    Rosie Gray: fine for me
    Callipygian Christensen: polls go out in an hour
    Anna Toussaint: May 26 at 9 am right here
    Rosie Gray: excellent!
    Patroklus Murakami: ok
    Anna Toussaint: good
    Anna Toussaint: is there a motion to adjourn?
    Shep Titian: Yes fine
    Patroklus Murakami: so moved
    Anna Toussaint: second?
    Rosie Gray: second
    Anna Toussaint: all in favor?
    Pip Torok: may i suggest we all keep our copies of this meeting?
    Patroklus Murakami: aye
    Anna Toussaint: aye
    Rosie Gray: aye
    Shep Titian: Aye
    Anna Toussaint: see you all!

  • Permalink.

    RA Meeting 26 May 2012

    Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. dear citizens
    Shep (shep.titian): Anna apologizes and asks me to chair
    Shep (shep.titian): So if we may begin
    Lilith Ivory: Hi guys
    Rosie Gray waves to Lilith
    Shep (shep.titian): Have you all checked the agenda and approve?
    Lilith Ivory waves back
    Shep (shep.titian): Hoi Lilith:)
    Lilith Ivory: Hi Shep
    You decline ! McCoy Island – Karoke – Open Mic from A group member named Ronald Barrabus.
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok I hear no negatives
    Shep (shep.titian): I believe I see all speakers for todays items barring Pat .. how many will want to speak ?
    Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
    Trebor Warcliffe: I will
    Rosie Gray raises hand
    Shep (shep.titian): Good all covered thank you
    Lilith Ivory: I might
    Shep (shep.titian): Noted Lilith
    Beathan Vale: I have a word or two
    Shep (shep.titian): Do any citizens have any concerns they wish to bring up?
    Daniel Sosa: I have a clarification question
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok Beathan :)
    Daniel Sosa: about SC
    Shep (shep.titian): Go ahead Daniel
    Daniel Sosa: When reading the forums it was said that a new Chair of SC is elected in July
    Daniel Sosa: does that mean that Calli will be up for another vote for SC chair
    Shep (shep.titian): That has yet to be passed in the reforms
    Daniel Sosa: oh ok
    Daniel Sosa: thank you
    Callipygian Christensen: Yes Daniel..imo it will , if that passes :)
    Shep (shep.titian): And my answer is I hope so
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok any RA members with conerns?
    Rosie Gray: not me
    Beathan Vale: no special concerns today
    Shep (shep.titian): Nor me :)
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok moving on
    Shep (shep.titian): Any old business that has any final problems?
    DocJoshua (docjoshua.runner) is Online
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    Shep (shep.titian): Ok … New business .. and Trebor’s proposals …
    Shep (shep.titian): Trebor would you like to say what you want to achieve and invite opinions ,, then present formally?
    Trebor Warcliffe: Yes I can.
    Shep (shep.titian): Good . I give you the floor for your first proposal
    VISTA ANIMATIONS *HUD 3.9b* CHICA BOOM AO V3: MAIN AO OFF
    Trebor Warcliffe: The Calendar proposal was developed based on Sudane’s post in the forums. I dont want it to seem I’m being “heavy handed” (credit to Shep on that one) but it does seem if it isnt mandated than it hardly ever gets done. By holding all 3 branches responsible for their little sections I hope it will encourage our citizens to make use of it also.
    Trebor Warcliffe: By the way, I’m practicing my being brief adn getting to the point methods LOL
    Sudane Erato: Calendar touch access is posted on the right rear wall of the room, for those who’d like to try it
    Shep (shep.titian): Well excellent work lol
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    Dru Erin (dru.paulino) is Offline
    Trebor Warcliffe: It’s frustrating that we have many good tools at our disposal and we’re not making good use of them.
    Trebor Warcliffe: What else Shep?
    Shep (shep.titian): Well lets see if you want this made a formal proposal
    Cranston Yordstorm is Online
    Shep (shep.titian): I for one feel its a step too far
    Trebor Warcliffe: I’d like it to be but if the three branches agree they will make a concentrated effort to use the Calendar this term
    Trebor Warcliffe: I can abstain
    spencer Cascarino is Offline
    Shep (shep.titian): I’ll be honest .. my sons and I tried a networked diary and we soon let it slide
    Trebor Warcliffe: Sudane has made it quite easy for us to use the calendar
    Sudane Erato: Well, we need SOME claer and consistent system to publicize dates
    spencer Cascarino is Online
    Daniel Sosa: Raises hand
    Lilith Ivory nods
    Shep (shep.titian): Its not the use Trebor its the desire to use it ..
    Shep (shep.titian): Daniel
    Rosie Gray raises hand
    Daniel Sosa: What is the intent of the calendar
    Taylee Helix is Online
    Daniel Sosa: maybe use it for limited things at first to see how it is taken by the citizens and if uused well then gradually increase the use of it
    Trebor Warcliffe: To publisize events, important dates such as RA and SC meetings
    Trebor Warcliffe: It’s been in place for years it just hasnt been utilized
    Daniel Sosa: then what would make it used more now
    Daniel Sosa: I mean by the citizens
    Daniel Sosa: if that is the goal as well
    Sudane Erato: because a law required it
    Lilith Ivory: I have it combined wioth calendars of other comunities … but never see a CDS event there
    Shep (shep.titian): It’s a very patronisding law
    Rosie Gray raises hand … again
    Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
    Daniel Sosa: Would their be penalties for non use and how would it be governed
    Trebor Warcliffe: If a citizen holds a weekly event such as Deni and her dance parties at her Gallery on Wed nights, she would post the event on teh calendar so anyoen looking at the calendar knows whats going on.
    Trebor Warcliffe: Done for now, sorry Rosie
    Rosie Gray: that’s okay… I just wanted to point out that it’s such a clumsy system
    Rosie Gray: I personally never use those calendars…
    Trebor Warcliffe: How’s that?
    Shep (shep.titian): I did’nt know we had one
    Beathan Vale: I am skeptical that any citizens will look at the calendar other than those who already read the forums — and we have a history of posting notices on the forums — so I see no real benefit from this, but it clearly adds a new burden and responsibility to the LRA, Dean, etc. — Notice is good and important (as the SC has already ruled in invalidating a RA meeting) — that should be enough
    Rosie Gray: I prefer activities to be promoted in-world and through the SL events
    Sudane Erato: very few citizens read the forums
    Beathan Vale: and very few will look at the calendar
    Sudane Erato: and event postings are hard to find there
    Rosie Gray: I just don’t think it’s worth the effort using that calendar
    Lilith Ivory: it´s not such a ig burde to post an event there
    Lilith Ivory: Aria forced me to do it when I was LRA
    Shep (shep.titian): I think we have a consenus Trebor .. do you wish to continue or would you like to withdraw the propsal?
    Sudane Erato: :)
    Daniel Sosa: Does the calendar show up in public places throughout the sim
    Rosie Gray: it’s here and there Daniel
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee) raises hand
    Shep (shep.titian): Razzy
    Trebor Warcliffe: Shep if I can get an oral committment from an SC and an RA member, along with myself that we will all make use of the calendar this term I would be willing to withdraw my formal proposal
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Some form of community calendar is definitely useful. Many organizations have one and it can be a good way of getting information to those interested if people maintain it.
    Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Razzy, ty
    Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
    Shep (shep.titian): Razzy as new RA would you like the task of using the calender this term to see if it makes a difference?
    Shep (shep.titian): Calli after Razzy
    SD Damiano is Offline
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee): I use google calendars for work and for a few organizations I run, I am certainly willing to use the calendar for posting anything I am made aware of.
    Rosie Gray reflects that perhaps it is because the calendar has never had anything on it that she has found it useless
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee) nods
    Trebor Warcliffe: Excellent Razzy thank you
    Lilith Ivory nods in agreement
    Shep (shep.titian): Excellent .. Trebor you havve RA prepared to try .. Calli?
    Lilith Ivory: as I was silly enough to speak for it I could do also
    Callipygian Christensen: Shep, thankyou – 2 things. First I have no objection to posting to the calendar – the SC now has a Secretary who will have that as part of the duties
    Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you Lillith, as will I for the Executive branch.
    Callipygian Christensen: second though, Treb, you mention Deni’s events as an example
    Trebor Warcliffe: yes
    Edward Ballinger is Online
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. Trebor I accept your withdrawing of that propsal
    Callipygian Christensen: what you were propsing doesnt addrss citizen activity (as it shouldnt) but perhaps the PIO actively inviting peple to post such regular or one time events should be done also
    Trebor Warcliffe: Correct
    Trebor Warcliffe: That’s my way of thinking
    Trebor Warcliffe: Someone in the Executive branch pays attention to our citizen held events and posts them also if hte citizen doesnt do it themselves
    Callipygian Christensen: mMight even do it for them :) Done
    Shep (shep.titian): Thank you Calli
    Trebor Warcliffe: Yes, see above, Done
    Shep (shep.titian): Thank You Trebor
    spencer Cascarino is Offline
    Shep (shep.titian): ok no vote needed moving on
    Shep (shep.titian): Shall we do the same with your next proposal Trebor?
    Trebor Warcliffe: ???
    Shep (shep.titian): The Waiver
    Trebor Warcliffe: I feel pretty passionate about the waiver
    Trebor Warcliffe: I’d like it discussed
    Shep (shep.titian): So lets nave it!! :)
    Shep (shep.titian): Have
    Rosie Gray: lol
    Callipygian Christensen: I think she meant ‘follow the same format’, not ‘withdraw’ :)
    Shep (shep.titian): Yes
    Shep (shep.titian): Sorry .. welsh!
    Trebor Warcliffe: I have yet to see anyone present a true “conflict of interest” example that would make this waiver a bad idea. Those who argue the conflict of interest are questioning their own abilities to make a decicison based on what is presented and not because they have a civil service position and the Chancellor wants it passed.
    Shep (shep.titian): lol
    Trebor Warcliffe: If people are willing and able to hold multiple positions in the CDS than I dont see why they shouldnt be allowed to.
    Trebor Warcliffe: Waiting for a counter argument now.
    Beathan Vale: Plurality of office and separation of powerss
    Trebor Warcliffe: Im listening Beathan
    Beathan Vale: Plurality of office (concentration of powers in a few people) has always been proven to be a bad and harmful idea wherever and whenever it has been tried
    Shep (shep.titian): My counter is’nmt about example it’s about the three arms of Government
    Trebor Warcliffe: A civil service position doesnt have power as far as in the Executive branch
    spencer Cascarino is Online
    Beathan Vale: Separation of Powers is a key mechanism for preventign exactly that — and it is CONSTITUTIONALLY mandated here — and this Act proposes to essentially abolish it
    Soro Dagostino: brb
    Trebor Warcliffe: The Chancellor is hte one who presents the proposal to the RA
    Beathan Vale: That is — frankly — both dangerous and crazy
    Shep (shep.titian): Your ‘helpers’ are part of the executive Trebor
    Sudane Erato: raise hand
    Trebor Warcliffe: In a civil service position yes but not in a decision making position like the Chancellor
    Beathan Vale: and all because recruitment is difficult and that makes certain projects harder —
    Shep (shep.titian): Sudane
    Beathan Vale: I would rather handle that either through better recruitment or fewer projects
    Sudane Erato: to suggest in RL that the holder of a governemtnt position… let’s say a legislator… could not go and volunteer at a soup kitchen… would be the height of luncay
    Sudane Erato: *lunacy
    Sudane Erato: we NEED volunteers
    Sudane Erato: done
    Shep (shep.titian): Sudane Trebor is’nt asking for that level of help .. I already do a good bit more than that
    Beathan Vale: no one is suggesting that govt officials can’t volunteer in private activities — the proposal is to allow people to hold multiple, official positions in multiple branches of govt — entirely different
    Sudane Erato: forget the saqlaries
    Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
    Daniel Sosa: I agree with Beathan
    Sudane Erato: just let people help!
    Shep (shep.titian): Calli?
    Beathan Vale: people can help — privately — even informally – -just not officially through multiple offices
    Shep (shep.titian): They can Sudane
    Callipygian Christensen: as an observation, and I think this is one of the challenges Trebor is trying to address –
    Sudane Erato: that’s not clear to me from this discussion
    Callipygian Christensen: if it is someones *duty* to do something they are more likely to do it, show up..whatever..
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee) raises hand
    Shep (shep.titian): Sadly that has’nt proven the case tho
    Callipygian Christensen: if people are volunteering in the ‘oh I can help with that’ methodology, they are more likely to have othr things distract or delay
    Shep (shep.titian): After Calli .. Razzy
    Callipygian Christensen: I did say ‘more’ not ‘will’ :)
    Daniel Sosa: Raises hand
    Rosie Gray raises hand
    Callipygian Christensen: My point is that I think Trebor is just trying to have a higher level of committment in place than ‘oh sure, I can ahlep out with that’
    Callipygian Christensen: done
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Thank you Shep…
    Shep (shep.titian): After Calli Razzy Daniel the Rosie
    Shep (shep.titian): Razzy
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee): My observation is that there is a lot to be done. I have often complained about different things… outdated signs left up, or signs for parcel sales that arent really for sale etc….
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee): there seems like a lot of work to do, and I wonder if it isn’t true that perhaps all the people who are ready to dedicate such time to helping are already holding positions… are there enough interested parties left outside of those holding a position? done
    Shep (shep.titian): Fair point
    Shep (shep.titian): Daniel?
    Daniel Sosa: I would have to agree with Beathan on his point of better recruitment
    Shep (shep.titian): Thank you .. Rosie :)
    Daniel Sosa: if the point is to get more citizens involved then there has to be a way to communicate to the citizens on the duties at hand
    Rosie Gray waits to see if Daniel is finished
    Callipygian Christensen coughs – recruitment isnt the problem, it’s participation
    Daniel Sosa: maybe the duties outlined in those positions are too much to ask of one individual
    Daniel Sosa: maybe break those up into manageable things or repsonsibilities and maybe other in CDS would come forward
    Daniel Sosa: recruitment is the key I believe0–Done
    Shep (shep.titian): Thank you :)
    Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
    Daniel Sosa: Well Calli poarticipaino requires recruitment
    josjoha is Online
    Rosie Gray: lol
    Shep (shep.titian): Passes Calli as cough sweet :)
    Daniel Sosa: cough
    Rosie Gray: done, Daniel?
    Shep (shep.titian): Tsk
    Callipygian Christensen grins andslaps her own hand
    Daniel Sosa: yes now I am after clearing throat
    Daniel Sosa: hehehe
    Trebor Warcliffe: lol
    Rosie Gray: okay, thanks
    Shep (shep.titian): You’ve started Trebor now
    Rosie Gray: my opinion is that there are a lot of good points being made
    Shep (shep.titian): :D
    Rosie Gray: but fundamentally I agree that the people interested in committing their efforts
    Rosie Gray: are probably doing so already
    Beathan Vale: I must note that I think Trebor has made strong efforts at recruitment — maybe if he repeats those efforts he will get better results, but I am skeptical. I think that thee real problem might be that we are trying to do too much
    Rosie Gray: and I do think that unless it is considered a ‘duty’, people will find other more important things to do
    Scarlet Chandrayaan is Online
    Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
    Rosie Gray: but also, those positions do seem to have a LOT of reponsibilities, so it can appear overwhelming
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee) nods
    Trebor Warcliffe: raises hand
    Scarlet Chandrayaan is Offline
    Rosie Gray: so, perhaps some kind of compromise would work
    Rosie Gray: done
    Shep (shep.titian): I disagree Rosie .. I think if they have a huge list of must do’s they’ll run a mile
    Scarlet Chandrayaan is Online
    Rosie Gray: that’s basically what I said, Shehp
    Trebor Warcliffe looking for his running shoes, nope no where to be found
    Shep (shep.titian): Maybe people work both ways .. what does for one etc etc
    Rosie Gray: if the list is too imposing, people don’t want to commit
    Daniel Sosa: I have located mine but still holding off putting them on
    Rosie Gray: unless they are the type that are already doing a lot
    Sudane Erato: :)
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee) nods
    Trebor Warcliffe: Give me those shoes Daniel, you can’t run yet, I’ve got plans for you.
    Rosie Gray: lol
    Sudane Erato: hehe
    Trebor Warcliffe: Ok Calli had her hand raised
    Daniel Sosa: ahhhh agenda within agendas not good for the executive office
    Shep (shep.titian): I do help in ways other than RA .. I enjoy it .. but I don’t want a ‘job’
    Rosie Gray: yes, see
    Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Calli
    Rosie Gray: :P
    Trebor Warcliffe: I have a possible compromise but I want to hear Calli first before I counter
    Callipygian Christensen: Those positions DO seem large, and in the absence of people IN them the Chancellor be defaultis expected to peform them. The trend ahs been to sugggest more and more responsibilites handed to the Executive, but ti’s rather foolish to put barriers in the way to sharing the load. No one will want to be Chancellor if they see the size of the task. As for recruitment vs participation, with respect Daniel, Trebor has announced, pleaded and I amsureIve seen him on his kneews begging
    Trebor Warcliffe: ROFLMO
    Shep (shep.titian): pmsl
    Callipygian Christensen: and still positions and tasks have had no takers.
    Trebor Warcliffe dustes the soil from my knees
    Shep (shep.titian): On your Knees man!!
    Daniel Sosa: then maybe it is a lost cause–sorry to say
    Trebor Warcliffe: Its not a lost cause
    Trebor Warcliffe: there is hope
    Rosie Gray: lol
    Shep (shep.titian): Or was that wrong window! :)
    Callipygian Christensen: In reality we have a far smaller *active* citizenry that the list suggests
    Trebor Warcliffe: Very true calli
    Trebor Warcliffe: Ok if everyone is done I’d like to present my counter and possible compromise
    Shep (shep.titian): Gop ahead Trebor
    Rosie Gray agrees with Calli that Trebor has tried very hard to get more involvement from the citizens
    Trebor Warcliffe: First point
    Callipygian Christensen: So I am saying that if Trebor or any future chancellor is losig things in the cracks because those position are not filled and volunteers are not following through..lets not get out the pitchforks
    Callipygian Christensen: done
    Trebor Warcliffe: Recruitment isnt the issue as some here have confirmed I have literally begged for help
    Trebor Warcliffe: Participation is a big issue. I as well as others understand everyones SL adn CDS time is limited.
    Trebor Warcliffe: Beathan’s comment about having to many irons in the fire really doesnt apply either
    Trebor Warcliffe: I held one MAIN event
    Trebor Warcliffe: thsi past term on one day
    Trebor Warcliffe: and the help I recieved was minimal at best though I am very grateful for the help I did receive
    Trebor Warcliffe: The problem that I see with my proposal is the official titles attached to the “civil service positions”
    Trebor Warcliffe: I’d like to make use of Cindy’s suggestion in the forums
    Beathan Vale: I wasn’t speaking of the number of events — if the duties are too heavy for the Chancellor to perform with the help he can get — we need to reduce them — not merely the number of events, but the general tasks
    Trebor Warcliffe: You cant reduce the tasks Beathan
    Trebor Warcliffe: If you do teh community suffers
    Trebor Warcliffe: Think about it
    Trebor Warcliffe: Have we had an event since February?
    Trebor Warcliffe: Besides the one Shep hosted?
    Trebor Warcliffe: No
    Trebor Warcliffe: Why?
    Beathan Vale: or at least prioritize them — I don’t agree, Trebor — and no one has really scrutinized that issue
    Rosie Gray raises hand
    Shep (shep.titian): I’d like to sit down with you in a s,mall group to discuss the duties
    Trebor Warcliffe: Because I had no one to help with them and I wasnt doing them myself again
    Derrek Scatter is Online
    Shep (shep.titian): Rosie
    Rosie Gray: thank you Shep…
    Rosie Gray: I think that the list of duties for one of the proposed positions are so overwhelming that it looks like a full time job
    Rosie Gray: if you are a person that takes it seriously, you may not want to commit to so much
    Shep (shep.titian): I agree Rosie
    Rosie Gray: there are a lot of practical maintenance tasks that the Chancellor has to do
    Trebor Warcliffe: The job description for PIO was cut in half
    Rosie Gray: that is not really seen by many people, if they are done
    Trebor Warcliffe: very true Rosie
    Rosie Gray: so there are many many things that need to be done, and by restricting the participants
    Rosie Gray: based on them already being active in the group, just doesn’t make sense to me
    Rosie Gray: done
    Trebor Warcliffe: Ok I’d like to present my compormise if I may
    Shep (shep.titian): Thanks Rosie
    Shep (shep.titian): I’m NOT against any of us helping with things I’m against being in two branches of government
    Trebor Warcliffe: I will say that I have had a few of our citizens, Razzy, Bags, Dee, Tan,and Daniel to name a few that have approached me to volunteer their time and services on little thingsav
    Trebor Warcliffe: Cindy
    Trebor Warcliffe: In the forums
    Taylee Helix is Offline
    ElanCreations is Online
    Trebor Warcliffe: Why not take the various duties and allow an individual no matter who they are to help out with that particular duty
    Trebor Warcliffe: For example
    Trebor Warcliffe: Tan has volunteered to assist me with the Availabel Land for Sale posting and all the work that goes into that
    Trebor Warcliffe: Now for arguments sake
    Trebor Warcliffe: If Tan was on the RA would she still be allowed ot help the Chancellor with thsi one task or are we goign to cal that a conflcit of interest also?
    Trebor Warcliffe: Razzy has some great ideas to help with some of the PIO duties.
    Daniel Sosa: Raises hand
    Shep (shep.titian): Trebor this is’nt against helping
    Shep (shep.titian): Its against job titles
    Trebor Warcliffe: I understand that
    Sudane Erato: helping is the issue
    Shep (shep.titian): Daniel
    Scarlet Chandrayaan is Offline
    Trebor Warcliffe: Hold on Shep Im not done yet
    Shep (shep.titian): Sorry
    Beathan Vale: anyone can volunteer informally for anything — we are loose that way — but it is holding multiple offices (official position) in multiple branches that is the problem
    Shep (shep.titian): Exactly Beathan
    Trebor Warcliffe: It is about helping. If I eliminate “Titles” and “Official Positions” but SC members and RA members are performing some of these tasks is their going to be problems for me or any other Chancellor
    Shep (shep.titian): No
    Rosie Gray: there may be, as far as ‘committment’
    Dee Shepherd is Online
    Trebor Warcliffe: I’m referring to the “you cant do that attitude”
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee) raises hand
    Rosie Gray raises hand
    Shep (shep.titian): Razzy after Daniel
    Shep (shep.titian): Then Rosie
    Trebor Warcliffe: Basically what is being done than is we are eliminating civiil service positions and whoever wants to help with whatever tasks available
    Trebor Warcliffe: can
    Trebor Warcliffe: Correct?
    Shep (shep.titian): Can someone speak Treb?
    Beathan Vale: Trebor — NO
    Trebor Warcliffe: Yes
    Rosie Gray: lol
    Daniel Sosa: I withdraw my reason to speak since Trebor has eloquently stated what I was going to say
    Trebor Warcliffe: Yes Shep Im done for the moment
    Shep (shep.titian): Daniel
    Beathan Vale: it would be best to have such positions and to fillthem with people who are committed to those offices — but not serving in other branches
    Shep (shep.titian): ok Razzy
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Thank you Shep…
    Beathan Vale: However, to the extent a task needs volunteer help,anyone can volunteer
    Trebor Warcliffe: Can I respond to Beathan Shep or shall I wait?
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee): without a title or certain listed ‘duties’ I think that the ‘helping out’ will fall apart.
    Shep (shep.titian): Wait please
    Rosie Gray nods
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee): 1) People take a task more seriously if it is a designated duty-postion held
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee): 2) things break down when people aren’t sure who to go to for whatever needs to be done because everything is so casual.
    Beathan Vale: Can we vote on this — we are going in circles and there are other important agenda items
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee): 3) the idea of getting non-position holding people to do it is good, but realistically there arent many available.
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee): and there is a lot of stuff to be done that can’t just be eliminated due to lack of people. done
    Shep (shep.titian): Trebor do you want to formally propose?
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    Rosie Gray: ahem
    Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Rosie
    Rosie Gray: thank you,
    Rosie Gray: I jsut wanted to point out that in my proposal further down in the Agenda…
    Rosie Gray: part of it would be a huge assistance to the Chancellor
    Rosie Gray: so making some of the duties lighter, in regards to covenant enforcement
    Rosie Gray: done
    Cranston Yordstorm is Offline
    Shep (shep.titian): I feel we need to come back to this myself .. but if you want a formal vote Trebor please propose
    Trebor Warcliffe: No. Here is what I will do this term.
    Trebor Warcliffe: If I have someone available to fill an “official” position that isnt on teh RA or the SC
    Trebor Warcliffe: than I will give them that position
    Trebor Warcliffe: If I am unable to find someone to fill a position than I will address each duty of that position on an individual basis and will accept help from whoever wants to work on one or two of the duties, RA or SC member or not. Fair enough?
    Rosie Gray: ã‹¡
    Shep (shep.titian): Very fair Trebor .. I can support that 100%
    Trebor Warcliffe: Beathan???
    Trebor Warcliffe cant tell if Beathan is typing or not
    Beathan Vale: I really have to see how Iit plays out in practice before I can say that I think it is good — if work gets done without powers piling up in one or two hands — I’m fine with it — but if someone becomes some kind of superofficial as a result, I will have concerns
    Shep (shep.titian): But for now we are done :)
    Trebor Warcliffe: fair enough, though I doubt Ill have powers piling up in one or two hands LOL
    Shep (shep.titian): lol
    Trebor Warcliffe: Have you made any progress reaching out to the educators in SL?
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok next and I shou;ld have said already .. both Pat and nna request a 7 day vote
    Shep (shep.titian): Anna
    Shep (shep.titian): Next constitutional reform of the SC
    Beathan Vale: On that note — I have confirmed that we can broadcast “Great Courses” classes in video form if (1) we or one of of us bought and owns tthe course and (2) we don’t charge — that might just be a matter of technical video streaming
    Shep (shep.titian): I’m assuming you want the floor Calli .. are you happy with the same way?
    Beathan Vale: and I have quite of few of those — from “The Teaching Company”
    Beathan Vale: Calli has asked me to formally propose that matter for debate — and I do
    Trebor Warcliffe: Excellent Beathan my email is twarcliffe@gmail.com please emailme the details and we’ll egt moving on it
    Beathan Vale: I have a few words on it
    Shep (shep.titian): OPk Beathan go ahead
    Shep (shep.titian): ok
    ElanCreations is Offline
    Soro Dagostino raises hand
    Shep (shep.titian): Soro?
    Soro Dagostino: Point of Order . . .
    Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
    Shep (shep.titian): I’ll second
    Soro Dagostino: I’d like to make sure its properly before the Body
    Rosie Gray dosn’t recall hearing a motion
    Soro Dagostino: TYVM
    Trebor Warcliffe: RL calls, have to go. Everyone support Rosie’s agenda please
    Trebor Warcliffe is Offline
    Beathan Vale: the proposal we have is a difficult compromise to address issues with the SC — both as to the workings of the SC and to its relationship with outher branches of government. I have reservations and concerns with the proposal — but nothing that disqualifies it as something to try. It has been a long process — with Delia, Shep and Calli playing primary roles and doing a lot of very hard and trying work — the result is imperdect and may need further reforms and also leaves some questions unresolved (through silence) because no consensus could be approached, let alone reached …
    Beathan Vale: done
    Shep (shep.titian): Thanks Beathan . I remove myself from the hard work .. I just stuck my nose in :)
    Beathan Vale: lol
    Soro Dagostino raises hand
    Shep (shep.titian): Soro
    Soro Dagostino: Many moons ago, I asked Calli and Delia to lead the investigation into the reforms. They have done an execellent job.
    Soro Dagostino: I urge the passage of the compromise presentation.
    Soro Dagostino: done
    Shep (shep.titian): Thank you
    Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
    Shep (shep.titian): Calli
    Callipygian Christensen: As Beathan noted, this represents compromise – often necessary in this sort of thing, but seldom welcome – but it is a positive step forward to have reached agreement on what is before you and it will allow the SC to start reform of its procedures as well.
    Callipygian Christensen: We will be asking the incoming RA to allow the committee to continue disucssions, but I express here that the SC supports the Act and the amendment
    Callipygian Christensen: and I would like to say that Pat, Beathan, Sudane and Delia have made this a far less contentious issue than it might hae been..thank them for that
    Callipygian Christensen: Done
    Shep (shep.titian): Thank you .. Delia .. I note from the forum that you mat have an issue?
    Shep (shep.titian): may
    Delia Lake: Shep, we have resolved it for now
    Delia Lake: ty for asking
    Callipygian Christensen: The text of the amendmentwas edited to address Pat and Delia’s concerns
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. well this all seems less fraught than I expected
    Sudane Erato: shocking for the CDS
    Shep (shep.titian): Ah ok lovely ..
    Rosie Gray: hehehe
    Shep (shep.titian): lol
    Shep (shep.titian): well Bethan
    Daniel Sosa: changing the constitution easier than volunteer positions
    Daniel Sosa: interesting
    Beathan Vale: angst behind the scenes can produce good results in public
    Sudane Erato: :)
    Shep (shep.titian): Its in the work done before Daniel
    Rosie Gray: indeed
    Shep (shep.titian): Hours opf it
    Beathan Vale: Daniel — it only looks that way — we’ve been struggling with this for the last 6-8 months
    Callipygian Christensen: (we wont tell them Pat isnt here because he’s tied up in the shed in CN)
    Rosie Gray: rofl
    Sudane Erato: lol :)))
    Delia Lake: lol
    Daniel Sosa: lol
    Shep (shep.titian): OK well do you want a vote Beathan lol
    Soro Dagostino: LOLLOLOLLL
    Callipygian Christensen: This requires two vots madame Chair
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok
    Beathan Vale: I call for a vote — I think that there are two matters — so Act first
    Beathan Vale: Amendment second
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok .. A vote on the act
    Callipygian Christensen: would you like the text posted here or just the URL?
    Callipygian Christensen: text might be best for the transcript?
    Shep (shep.titian): Go for the text :)
    Callipygian Christensen: Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act

    Preamble

    This Act clarifies the way in which the Representative Assembly will provide a vote of confidence on candidates to the Scientific Council. The intention is that the SC, candidates for the SC and the RA will work together cooperatively to interview candidate SC members at the earliest opportunity and affirm (or deny) the appointment.

    NL 4-8 Scientific Council Affirmation Procedures Act is repealed.

    When a vacancy occurs on the SC, the Chair will announce that a vacancy is pending in the Forums and CDS group notices, and will specify a timeframe for external nominations to be submitted. Any citizen may put their own name forward for consideration, or may nominate any other citizen. The Chair and other members of the SC may also identify suitable nominees.

    The SC will review all nominations to ensure that nominees meet the posted qualifications for SC membership.
    All nominees with the required qualifications will be interviewed by the SC and will
    Callipygian Christensen: be accepted as an SC candidate by a simple majority vote.

    In the event of multiple candidates, the candidate put forward to the RA will be selected by a blind draw. The Chair of the SC will provide the LRA with the name of the candidate within 24 hours of the vote or of the blind draw.

    The LRA will invite the candidate to appear at the next meeting of the RA to be interviewed in regards to their perceived likelihood to uphold the Constitution, and to receive a vote of confidence from the RA. RA members are expected to consider any candidate based on their ability to perform the duties of an SC member, not on any personal friendship or enmity. RA members will give a brief rationale for their vote and the candidate will be considered confirmed by a simple majority.

    If the candidate is unable to attend the next meeting of the RA he or she will provide the LRA with a selection of dates and times that they are available to attend a future RA meeting, and both the candidate and the LRA will make every effort to schedule the candidate’s appearance as soon as possible.

    If the candidate fails to appear at the nex
    Callipygian Christensen: o schedule the candidate’s appearance as soon as possible.

    If the candidate fails to appear at the next RA meeting, or a meeting held on an agreed date and time within 60 days of the SC meeting that approved their candidacy, their candidacy will be considered withdrawn. If the RA, due to its own failure to be quorate or to hold a meeting on an agreed date and time to interview the candidate, fails to interview the candidate at a public RA meeting, within 60 days of the SC meeting that approved the candidacy, the candidate will be considered confirmed.

    During the 60 day period, or until the RA vote of confidence is held, the candidate will attend SC meetings and will be permitted to contribute their opinions and expertise, but will not be permitted to vote.
    Beathan Vale: I move for a vote on the new Act
    Rosie Gray: seconded
    Shep (shep.titian): I second
    Shep (shep.titian): and vote Aye
    Beathan Vale: Aye
    Rosie Gray: aye
    Shep (shep.titian): we hjave to wait for the 7 day votes I bellieve to reach majority
    Beathan Vale: No — I think the Act passes now — but the Amendment can’t
    Shep (shep.titian): Ah ok sorry still in L plates
    Beathan Vale: until the 7 day votes come in
    Callipygian Christensen agrees with Beathan
    Shep (shep.titian): The act passes .. well done all
    Rosie Gray: ··•°•··..☺ Applauds! ☺ ..··•°•··..
    Daniel Sosa: well done group
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok Beathan next?
    Rosie Gray commends all the work that went into this
    Beathan Vale: OK — Callli can you post the Amendment next
    Shep (shep.titian): Yes well done for not coming to blows :D
    Beathan Vale: I only wish that were true ;)
    Shep (shep.titian): Ah .. hiding bruises Beathan lol
    Callipygian Christensen: ok, large block of text coming
    Beathan Vale: We jsut keep our blows in private, Unlike the Unkrainian parliament
    Sudane Erato: hehe
    Callipygian Christensen: Article 111 of the Constitution is replaced with the following:
    Shep (shep.titian): Lol .. that was so funny
    Callipygian Christensen: make that III
    Callipygian Christensen: Article III – The Philosophic Branch

    Section 1 – The Scientific Council

    The Scientific Council (SC) is a self-selected meritocracy.
    The specific role of the SC is to hold all branches of government true to the Constitution, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the CDS Code of Laws and the SL ToS.

    The SC carries out its role by performing the following services:

    -Review of all laws and amendments to the Constitution to ensure that such laws or amendments do not contravene the Constitution, the founding documents, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the CDS Code of Laws and the SL ToS

    -Act as a neutral body to resolve disputes between citizens and their government, by hearing appeals from citizens that challenge the decisions or actions of the RA or any member of the Executive, in carrying out their duties as defined by the Laws and Constitution of the CDS.

    -Administer the CDS election process by accepting and publicizing the names of candidates, hearing challenges to the official Ci
    Callipygian Christensen: hment of members of the Representative branch for violating the constitution or acting illegally.

    The SC may review the outcome of any judicial decision or executive action and may invalidate any such decision or action if it is in violation of any of the founding or constitutional documents, the Code of Laws or the UDHR.


    Section 7 – Hearings and Trials
    All impeachment hearings will be performed by the full Scientific Council . If a a member of the SC is accused, that member will be excused for the duration of the hearing. A member of the branch of government that is not calling for the impeachment hearing will serve as Chair of the SC during the hearing.

    Section 8 – Limitations of the SC

    Any member can be removed with a 2/3 majority vote of the SC.
    Callipygian Christensen: tizens List or List of Candidates, submitting the official Lists of Candidates and Citizens to the manager of the election software, placing and removing the polling stations at the designated locations and times, receiving and ratifying the results of the election and publicizing these results.

    -Moderate the CDS Forums to ensure that content meets the ToS of the Forums.

    Section 2 – The Scientific Council Body

    The Scientific Council shall regularly consist of 5 members, all of equal standing and holding a single vote. SC members will be selected based on demonstrated skill and desire to uphold the constitution without bias and will serve for a term of up to 3 years, excluding any time the member is inactive due to a requested leave of absence. The Chair of the SC may, at his or her discretion nominate additional members , to a maximum of 7, to accommodate requested leaves of absence of sitting SC members.

    Section 3 – The Scientific Council Chair

    The SC shall elect one member to act as Chair by simple majority vote. Election of the Chair will take place once per year, in July.

    Section 4 – Proce
    Callipygian Christensen: simple majority vote. Election of the Chair will take place once per year, in July.

    Section 4 – Proceedings

    The SC will convene at least once per month. The SC may determine the rules of its proceedings, punish its members for disorderly behavior and with the concurrence of two-thirds expel a member from a session.

    Section 5 – Journal

    The SC shall keep and publish a journal of its proceedings in the form of a transcript. All individual votes of the members of the SC on any question shall always be included, along with a statement regarding their personal philosophy on a given vote.

    Section 6 – Powers of the SC

    Members of the SC shall ratify bills passed by the Representative Assembly by simple majority vote.

    The SC may veto or resubmit a bill or constitutional amendment if it is in violation of any of the founding or constitutional documents, the Code of Laws or the UDHR.


    The Scientific Council may veto a revenue bill or resubmit a modified revenue bill for vote.

    The SC may seek impeachment of members of the Representative branch for violating the constitution or acting illegally.

    The SC
    Callipygian Christensen throws a shoe at Beathan to signify she is done posting text
    Beathan Vale: I move for a vote on the Amendment — after sufficient time for people to read this
    Shep (shep.titian): Lol he’s typing
    Rosie Gray: so seconded
    Shep (shep.titian): Vote
    Shep (shep.titian): I vote Aye
    Rosie Gray: aye
    Beathan Vale: aye
    Rosie Gray: woo
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok this time we do have to wait for 7 day votes .. but again thabks for the work
    Rosie Gray: :D
    Shep (shep.titian): And I’m sure we can assume it’s going to pass
    Soro Dagostino raises hand
    Shep (shep.titian): Soro
    Rosie Gray: lol
    Soro Dagostino: Is a “woo” an “aye” in this land?
    Rosie Gray: there was an ‘aye’, before the ‘woo’
    Shep (shep.titian): There was an aye before the woo :)
    Soro Dagostino: k
    Shep (shep.titian): spooky
    Rosie Gray: the woo was an exclamation point
    Rosie Gray: heeh
    Soro Dagostino: Congratulations all.
    Beathan Vale: Aye Wu — I think I knew someone named that once.
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok next .. Rosie are you happy to discuss first?
    Rosie Gray: yes thanks Shep
    Rosie Gray: I think I have given out a notecard to everyone here, re my proposal for a new builder’s guild
    Rosie Gray: please tell me if you haven’t received it
    Shep (shep.titian): Ay Wu Wu is a chinese artist .. I probably spelled it wrong
    Rosie Gray: nobody doesn’t have it? okay good
    Shep (shep.titian): Apologies for that Rosie .. my net went down until just before the meeting
    Callipygian Christensen: I dont seem to..I think SLate it
    Rosie Gray: okay I’ll post it in chat, for the record
    Rosie Gray: I would like to put forth a proposal for consideration, to create a new NGO Builder’s Guild.

    Since the current New Guild has been inactive and basically dysfunctional for some time now, I see this as an opportunity to create something new that is more streamlined, less ambitious and more workable for the CDS as it is now.

    Here’s an outline:

    Name: Guild of CDS Builders (or something else a little catchier) ã‹¡

    Membership:
    * Create an SL group that citizens will need to join to be members of the guild. (This to get away from the current non-system of whoever shows up is a member.)
    * Members must be CDS citizens in good standing, to join the guild.
    * Replace the ‘Secretary’ with ‘Executive Director’, which is the current standard for not-for-profit societies, and have a Chairperson, Treasurer, and Recording Secretary all elected from the membership.
    * Explore the idea of titles and levels for the group, in the tradition of apprentice, craftsman, journeymen, and master crafts
    Rosie Gray: and master craftsman. The more accomplished builders aiding the others to become better builders.
    * First purpose of the guild would be to create content and sim development for the CDS, as requested by the government.
    * Second purpose of the guild would be to inspect new citizen buildings and notify the Chancellor if they are outside of compliance. Also, to assist citizens in making their buildings comply with covenants (and ensure that trees do not float, roofs fit, and realism is achieved to a reasonable level). I think the guild could be the first (and best-case scenarios the only required) step for covenant monitoring.
    * To help pay for the guild tiers, and for ongoing services rendered, a monthly government stipend
    * Large scale development reimbursements to be negotiated between individual builders and the government, but with the oversight of the guild as a whole. This last to ensure quality control as well as helping to spread the potential work around within the guild creato
    Daniel Sosa: I have to go to RL
    Daniel Sosa: sorry Rosie I wont be able to stay
    Daniel Sosa: good luck
    Daniel Sosa: bye all
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Bye Daniel
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok Danile .. thanks for coming
    Lilith Ivory: bye Daniel
    Rosie Gray: This last to ensure quality control as well as helping to spread the potential work around within the guild creators, according to their skill levels and interest.

    All of this would need refining, but I would urge that the guild by-laws and charter be as straightforward as possible, keeping it’s scale suitable to the modest number of active citizens in the CDS now. Let’s keep it to a practical level, and let people who enjoy content creation have fun with it.
    Shep (shep.titian): lol Daniel
    Rosie Gray: that’s the full text
    Rosie Gray: bye Daniel
    Daniel Sosa is Offline
    Rosie Gray: further to this
    Rosie Gray: I would like to propose that the RA assign someone to call a first meeting to start the ball rolling
    Shep (shep.titian): I will do that .. and suggest you might like to do that Rosie :)
    Rosie Gray: I could, since this is my last meeting on the RA
    Shep (shep.titian): Exactly
    Treacle (treacle.darlandes) is Online
    Rosie Gray: if others agree… or someone else could
    Pip Torok is Online
    Rosie Gray: I see this proposal as a draft idea and that the new group would hammer out the details
    Shep (shep.titian): I propose Rosie Grey call a meeting to form a group to discuss the forming of as Builders Guild
    Shep (shep.titian): Beathan feel like seconding?
    Beathan Vale: second
    Shep (shep.titian): thank you .. and vote .. Aye
    Rosie Gray: thank you
    Rosie Gray: aye
    Beathan Vale: aye
    Shep (shep.titian): Cool …
    Rosie Gray: hi Pip
    Shep (shep.titian): Hi Pip
    Lilith Ivory: hi Pip
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee) waves at Pip
    Rosie Gray: ã‹¡
    Pip Torok: hi Rosie hi everyone
    Delia Lake: hi Pip
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok well so carried .. Rosie please set that up at your convienience
    Rosie Gray: thank all, I will ã‹¡
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok I don’t think we have any commission reports
    Soro Dagostino: Excuse me, RL calls.
    Callipygian Christensen: be Soro
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee): Bye Soro
    Callipygian Christensen: bye too lol
    Lilith Ivory: bye Soro
    Shep (shep.titian): And as the Executive has disappeared no exec report :)
    Soro Dagostino: Bye all
    Rosie Gray: bye Soro
    Shep (shep.titian): Bye
    Pip Torok: hello goodbye Soro
    Shep (shep.titian): Anyone with annoucements
    Rosie Gray: not me
    Shep (shep.titian): Ok
    Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
    Shep (shep.titian): Next RA meeting .. Beathan Pip and Razzy .. Trbor wants us to hold one next Saturday .. is that ok??
    Beathan Vale: should be
    Pip Torok: for me yes …
    Sudane Erato: next Sat is June, no?
    Shep (shep.titian): He plans on following it with the Ball
    Callipygian Christensen coughs
    Sudane Erato: isn’t that the next RA?
    Shep (shep.titian): It is yes Sudane
    Sudane Erato: ok
    Razzy (moonrise.azalee) waits to hear from Calli
    Shep (shep.titian): Yes but we;re here
    Callipygian Christensen raises her hand a little higher
    Shep (shep.titian): Sorry Calli
    Callipygian Christensen: Since the swearing in of the 17th RA is immediately after this, with the election of the LRA to happen immediatley, it would be appropriate for the LRA to call for the next meeting date after everyone is sworn in
    Pip Torok: agrees
    Shep (shep.titian): ok fair enough :)
    Rosie Gray winks
    Shep (shep.titian): Then we wrap up this RA as far as meetings go .. I want to say its been a blast .. IO’ve enjoyed working with all of you :)
    Flower Garside (hakimba.firehawk) is Offline
    Sudane Erato: yay!… ty all :)
    Shep (shep.titian): Adjourn

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