RA Journals – 13th Assembly

Representative Assembly Minutes & Transcripts

Per Representative Assembly procedures, all meetings are recorded and transcripts posted for public review. The following are the transcripts for R.A. meetings for the 13th Assembly.

13th Representative Assembly

RA meeting June 1, 2010

Transcript from the RA meeting, June 1, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:41 pm
[12:10] Delia Lake: well, we have all the new representatives here
[12:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good evening and Welcome Mathiew
[12:10] Solomon Mosely: touch anything
[12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Stui and Cindy!
[12:10] Rose Springvale: sign records without touch apparently
[12:10] Cindy Ecksol: may have to multitask….
[12:10] DavidJrDotCom Asp: hi everyone
[12:10] mathiew Glenwalker: thank you stui
[12:10] fig whispers: Greeting Arias .
[12:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: a new face in the crowd !
[12:10] Rose Springvale: and color codes for posting
[12:10] mathiew Glenwalker: yeahhhhhh
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: yea!
[12:11] Rose Springvale: so do we begin?
[12:11] Delia Lake: yes
[12:11] Solomon Mosely: ok, 15 after
[12:11] Solomon Mosely: who’s driving?
[12:11] Patroklus Murakami: let’s get started
[12:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are you sitting comfortably ?
[12:11] Delia Lake: i will start
[12:11] Rose Springvale: Delia, do you want to administer the oath?
[12:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then I’ll Begin
[12:11] Cindy Ecksol: recorder will record and send a transcript to me now…
[12:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is anyone sitting here ?
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: not yethehe
[12:12] Delia Lake: as Dean of the SC, I congratulate each and everyone of you on your election as representative in the 13th term of the CDS RA
[12:12] Cindy Ecksol: go ahead, stui, try ti out
[12:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll test it
[12:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: maybe AP left a booby trap
[12:12] Delia Lake: The Confederation of Democratic Simulators is a democratic state. One of the freedoms embodied in our Constitution is that of religious choice as specified in one of its Founding Documents, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
[12:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *counts to ten*
[12:13] Delia Lake: i have passed to each of you a copy of the RA Affirmation of Office
[12:13] Delia Lake: Out of our respect for diverse religious beliefs about taking oaths as well as for RA members who may be non-religious, the following affirmation does not contain any referrences to any supernatural entities.
[12:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: other than me eh Dee Dee
[12:14] Delia Lake: However, anyone taking office who may wish to do so may add the words “So help me God” [or any other entity] at the end, if they wish so. They may also replace the words “affirm” by “swear” if they are so inclined.
[12:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I do it first ?
[12:15] Delia Lake: if you would please, each insert your own name into the NAME space of the affirmation, and enter your affirmation into the chat for the log.
[12:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I go first ?
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: lol Stui, hurry then! :p
[12:15] Delia Lake: so long as we get everyone
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: /afk
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I am ready
[12:16] Pip Torok: (the first will be last and the last will be first
[12:16] Rose Springvale: we are waiting for you stui
[12:16] Delia Lake: and as quickly as possible
[12:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oops I think my copy is incomplete
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[12:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Dee Dee can you resend it ?
[12:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:16] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I, muhammedyussif Wikinger, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators. so help me God
[12:16] Rose Springvale: sorry stui, too slow
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see, your chance is lost, Stui
[12:16] Pip Torok: I, Pip Torok, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: I, Lilith Ivory, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I Tor Karlsvalt, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I, Arria Perreault, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Patroklus Murakami: I, Patroklus Murakami, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I had to delay somehow – it’s my trait *LOL*
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I, Gwyneth Llewelyn, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Rose Springvale: I, Rose Springvale, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Timo Gufler: I, Timo Gufler, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol !
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I, StuiChicanne Darkstone (Stui), having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
So help me Patty !
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: @ Stui… heh
[12:17] Solomon Mosely: I, Solomon Mosely, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Lilith Ivory giggles
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Patty loves me
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: deep down inside
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see that we’re managing to crash all devices around us…
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[12:18] Rose Springvale: yep
[12:18] mathiew Glenwalker asks himself: is crashing contageous?
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope not, mathiew
[12:18] Delia Lake: many people have been crashing today
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: ok, sorry…I’m back
[12:18] Solomon Mosely: oh, having a storm here, always knocks my connection wonky
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: me to Mat
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: client in crisis
[12:18] mathiew Glenwalker: wear your masks!
[12:19] mathiew Glenwalker thinks he is really contageous
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my. We’re having an agitated meeting.
[12:19] Delia Lake: lol
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m wearing my safety unders
[12:19] Delia Lake: we are missing Cindy
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anti crash unders
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Cindy Doody !
[12:19] mathiew Glenwalker: lol
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: ok, back again….
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s your turn
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: sorry….
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: phone won’t stop ringing
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: your turn to swear
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Cindy
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: we are missing Kas
[12:19] Timo Gufler: turn it off
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: card?
[12:19] Delia Lake: oops yes
[12:19] Delia Lake: lost Kas
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: let´s swear now and be nice the rest of the term
[12:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can teach Cindy to swear
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stui lol
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: second for lillith
[12:20] Cindy Ecksol: I, Cindy Ecksol, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll just try her patience a bit
[12:20] fig whispers: Noticed Arria
[12:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: esp. if she is chancellor
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
[12:21] Delia Lake: we are stil missing Kas
[12:21] Cindy Ecksol: thank you stui — I SOOOO appreciate your support!
[12:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can put on a ladies voice
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: she isn’t even on yet
[12:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll pretend to be Kas
[12:21] Delia Lake: no
[12:21] Delia Lake: and no )
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: she seemes to be crashed
[12:21] Solomon Mosely: ok, well, 10/13, can we still elect lra?
[12:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can be Lady G
[12:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: You’ve been a very bad girl, a very very bad BAD girl, gaga!
[12:22] Patroklus Murakami: kas will get a 7-day vote if she is not able to come back
[12:22] Delia Lake: this as you know is the first RA under new rules where Factions are not the organizing groups
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: ah
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: wb Kas
[12:22] Rose Springvale: yay Kas!
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Kas
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: thanks –
[12:22] Delia Lake: in the past there has been a LRA previous to the first RA meeting of a new term
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: my apologies, I had to reboot my router
[12:22] fig whispers: Greeting CDS_NewPraetorium_l.
[12:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s ok Kas I offered to put on my lady voice
[12:23] Kaseido Quandry: lol! thanks, Stui!
[12:23] Delia Lake: as soon as Kas has rezzed and taken her affirmation
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha
[12:23] fig whispers: Greeting Notecard .
[12:23] Kaseido Quandry: I, Kaseido Quandry, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:23] Delia Lake: ty Kas
[12:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY !
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there you go — congrats to all new RA members for the 13th term!
[12:23] fig whispers: Greeting Cindy .
[12:23] Delia Lake: we have now officially constituted the 13th RA
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo!
[12:24] Pip Torok: yes congratulation , all
[12:24] fig whispers: Greeting StuiChicanne .
[12:24] Kaseido Quandry cheers, in a glowing, cloud-like way
[12:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oooh who is fig ?
[12:24] Patroklus Murakami: 13…. hmmmm!
[12:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oh it’s sol’s dog
[12:24] Solomon Mosely: your new master stui
[12:24] Rose Springvale: lucky number
[12:24] Arria Perreault: 13 for the 13th RA
[12:24] fig whispers: Greeting Patroklus .
[12:24] Kaseido Quandry giggles
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: How more lucky can we get?
[12:24] Delia Lake: so my duties are over, and you all may now self organize to elect your LRA for this term
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll last until 2013, I’m sure
[12:25] Solomon Mosely: i bet stu knows
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you were blessed when I walked in
[12:25] Rose Springvale: smiles. and
[12:25] Rose Springvale: if we are lucky and efficient
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Who is the 13th
[12:25] Rose Springvale: 13 meetings
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope to do more, but that’s for the next RA meeting…
[12:25] Rose Springvale: okay, i am going to just ask for nominations for LRA…
[12:25] Kaseido Quandry: I nominate Rose Springvale for LRA
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … to discuss
[12:25] Solomon Mosely: a little alchemy and we make 13 a good number
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: me i think
[12:25] Rose Springvale: so we aren’t stalled
[12:25] Patroklus Murakami: i nominate arria perreault for LRA
[12:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I second
[12:26] Pip Torok: I nominate arria Perrault
[12:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I second Rosy !
[12:26] Timo Gufler: I second Pip
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds either Pat or Pip (same nomination!)
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: I second Rose
[12:26] Rose Springvale: lol
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:26] Rose Springvale: other nominations?
[12:26] Kaseido Quandry: call for vote
[12:26] Timo Gufler: I second Arria (I meant)
[12:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: don’t all rush to nominate me
[12:26] Patroklus Murakami: hold on
[12:26] Cindy Ecksol: ummm…discussion?
[12:26] Patroklus Murakami: could we ask the candidtes qns before we vote?
[12:27] Pip Torok: we need a discussion …
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: note that Rose got 22 votes in the last election for first pref
[12:27] Rose Springvale: why?
[12:27] Rose Springvale: we have never before
[12:27] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[12:27] Rose Springvale: this isn’t chancellor
[12:27] Lilith Ivory agrees with Tor
[12:27] Pip Torok: whats that to do with it Tor?
[12:27] Patroklus Murakami: we never had an election for LRA before rose
[12:27] Cindy Ecksol: Rose, we’ve never ELECTED a LRA before
[12:27] Patroklus Murakami: so we never had a chance
[12:27] Arria Perreault: this is the first election of an LRA, Rose
[12:27] Rose Springvale: i’m aware of that
[12:27] Arria Perreault: I am ready to answer questions
[12:27] Solomon Mosely: fig come
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we did elect one… as a replacement once
[12:27] Patroklus Murakami: could delia continue to chair until we have an LRA elected?
[12:28] Rose Springvale: sure, want to start with statements?
[12:28] Patroklus Murakami: so this does not become a free-for-all
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that’s a good idea, Pat I second that
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: that is a good idea Pat
[12:28] fig whispers: Noticed Lilith
[12:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: hasn’t an RA member who’s been elected with the most votes got the support of the citizens and so therefore has the greater right to be here than our choice as the elected body ?
[12:28] Patroklus Murakami: no stui. thats not how it works
[12:28] Cindy Ecksol: no, stui, the new law does not state that.
[12:28] Rose Springvale: its okayu stui, lets just do it
[12:28] Pip Torok: not in th constitution Stui
[12:28] Delia Lake: the new law does not specify
[12:28] Cindy Ecksol: we have to make it up as we go along
[12:29] Arria Perreault: it was the former law
[12:29] Solomon Mosely: that logic held when parties ruled, but not now ffor some reason
[12:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I hope we stick to the constitution this term
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: NO but I think that should be considered.
[12:29] Rose Springvale: okay, i’m prepared for questions. go for it
[12:29] Cindy Ecksol notes that it had no logic previously…but it was the law
[12:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I thought the mandate of the citizenship would be sufficient… *LOL*
[12:29] Rose Springvale: but lets keep it to 15 minutes okay?
[12:29] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we could have candidate statements and then questions?
[12:29] Patroklus Murakami: short statements?
[12:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I didn’t think we were higher than they are
[12:29] Pip Torok: second pats suggestion
[12:29] Delia Lake: we have 2 nominees for LRA, Rose and Arria
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, sounds reasonable — a short statement would be fine
[12:30] Rose Springvale: arria, go ahead, i’m sure you are prepared
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria shoiuld go first as she is the last LRA, or have the option
[12:30] Arria Perreault: let’s say we take the alphabetical order …
[12:31] Solomon Mosely: holy cow
[12:31] Solomon Mosely: first or last name….?
[12:31] Arria Perreault: I am running for the position of LRA. I had this position for one term already.
[12:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sol… Rl Name or SL name ?
[12:31] Solomon Mosely: heh
[12:31] Arria Perreault: I think I am able to take in account the proposals of the different members of the RA and of the citizen to set the agenda and to manage the debates.
[12:32] Arria Perreault: during my term, the agenda was open to everyone who had a proposal, which seems to me important in democracy
[12:32] Arria Perreault: Because of her/his tasks in this Assembly, the LRA has a duty of neutrality.
[12:32] Arria Perreault: I think it will important during this term to have someone able to be neutral to manage this assembly
[12:33] Arria Perreault: it is not the main task of the LRA to develop projects
[12:33] Arria Perreault: I think also that it isimportant to avoid conflicts of interest
[12:33] Arria Perreault: as you know, I have no interest in Al-ANdalus
[12:34] Kaseido Quandry: isn’t that the truth
[12:34] Solomon Mosely: no kidding
[12:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well at least we aren’t dressing it up
[12:34] Arria Perreault: I consider I can manage the different debates we will have, especially about the agreement between CDS and the owner of AA
[12:35] Patroklus Murakami notes that ‘no interest in’ has a number of meanings which people who speak english as a second language might not be aware of
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed
[12:35] Arria Perreault: we should have serene debates about this question and other
[12:35] Arria Perreault: That’s why I believe I can manage this task during this term.
[12:36] Arria Perreault: Thank you
[12:36] Cindy Ecksol scratches her head wondering whether a “serene debate” would be any fun…..
[12:36] Solomon Mosely: claps
[12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Arria!
[12:36] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[12:36] Pip Torok: claps
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: haha cindy
[12:36] Rose Springvale: shall i go or shall arria take questions first?
[12:36] mathiew Glenwalker: claps too
[12:36] Cindy Ecksol claps
[12:36] Timo Gufler claps
[12:36] Pip Torok: suggest arria takes questions now …
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: I think you should do yur statement first
[12:37] Rose Springvale: delia?
[12:37] Delia Lake: yes, Rose, then people may ask questions of both of you
[12:37] Rose Springvale: thank you. and thank you to Arria.
[12:37] Rose Springvale: Three words define what i want from the RA this term
[12:37] Rose Springvale: Accountability, Accessibility and Action.
[12:38] Patroklus Murakami: AA and A nice
[12:38] Rose Springvale: it is the job of the RA to lead the community, and that means that it is our job to assure that the people we elect are doing their job
[12:38] Patroklus Murakami: in case we wondered what the priority was
[12:38] Pip Torok wonders where “independence comes in
[12:38] Rose Springvale: that includes the Chancellor, the staff and our members.
[12:38] Rose Springvale: appreciates the courtesy being extended
[12:38] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, if you play her speech backwars, it says “All Hail Satan” too :p
[12:39] Rose Springvale: accessibility…. we don’t need to sit on high chaira and rule. We need to be among the people. we need to talk to our neighbors, we need their input on our laws
[12:39] Rose Springvale: we need to have open meetings where all are encouraged to participate
[12:39] Rose Springvale: in varying days and time zones
[12:39] Rose Springvale: we need in short, to represent.
[12:39] Rose Springvale: and action.
[12:40] Rose Springvale: the last RA will forever be characterized by what it didnt’ get done
[12:40] Rose Springvale: that’s not healthy.
[12:40] Rose Springvale: Much has been said about neutrality.
[12:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (and needing a megaphone)
[12:40] Rose Springvale: and conflict of interest
[12:40] Rose Springvale: yet no one has spoken about facts.
[12:40] Rose Springvale: the facts:
[12:40] Rose Springvale: Arria has come out opposing, publickly the AA merger
[12:41] Rose Springvale: I have always, and continue to be, left the option open that AA may or may not continue
[12:41] Pip Torok thinks this shd be about Rose not Arria
[12:41] Rose Springvale: I have spent many hours working for CDS, trying to create an environment open and friendly to all who wish to participate iin a democratic experiment
[12:41] Rose Springvale: i will continue to do so
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: **’`*`’** Stui **’`*`’**
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: thinks it’s free speech
[12:42] Rose Springvale: i don’t have preconcieved notions about who is good or bad
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I think arriawas not interrupted
[12:42] Rose Springvale: i don’t expect to be yoked with assumptions based on innuendo, but to deal solely in facts
[12:42] Rose Springvale: I can do this job, and i have no party affiliation
[12:43] Rose Springvale: so i guess i’m confused when i’m labeld “not neurtral”
[12:43] Rose Springvale: i have a list of the issues for the 13th RA
[12:43] Rose Springvale: it is long
[12:43] Rose Springvale: it is going to take work
[12:43] Patroklus Murakami: but you do have a conflict of interest – as Al Andalus Estate Owner and founder of the VDI non-profit which owns them
[12:43] Rose Springvale: it is goign to take eveyrone in this room to accomplish
[12:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Patty
[12:43] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l
[12:43] Solomon Mosely: save it for questions pat
[12:43] Rose Springvale: will be happy to take your questions later
[12:43] Rose Springvale: but we cannot afford to continue the way we have been
[12:44] Rose Springvale: if we want to be taken seriously, and i for one do, then we need to quit “Playing Politics” and illustrate democracy in virtual worlds
[12:44] Rose Springvale: I challenge you all to join me, professionally, as we take on this taxk
[12:44] Rose Springvale: task.
[12:44] Rose Springvale: thank you
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol applauds enthusiastically
[12:44] Lilith Ivory claps
[12:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY !
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[12:44] mathiew Glenwalker applauds
[12:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you, Rose
[12:45] Solomon Mosely: claps
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks rose
[12:45] Patroklus Murakami claps
[12:45] Kaseido Quandry applauds
[12:45] Ulysse Alexandre claps
[12:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I put a candle down to light the way
[12:46] Solomon Mosely: ok, questions
[12:46] Pip Torok raises hand for a quetion
[12:47] fig whispers: Greeting CLEOPATRA .
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: Pip has a question
[12:48] Kaseido Quandry: I don’t think chaos will ensue if we all just ask them
[12:48] fig whispers: Noticed Timo
[12:48] Pip Torok: Rose how can you know your not totally unsuitable? As the Estate Owner for Al Andalus and the founder of the VDI non-profit which owns the AA sims, Rose has a clear vested interest in both the finalisation of the merger with AA and any future transfer of the CDS sims to VDI. In these circumstances it would be _wholly_ inappropriate for her to set the agenda for, organise and chair RA meetings
[12:48] Timo Gufler throws a bone to fig
[12:48] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See also: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=182 (point 7)
[12:49] Rose Springvale: you are operating on assumptions that have no basis in fact pip. 1) Virtual democracy Inc, a texas non profit corporation, which has three board members, owns the AA estate
[12:49] Cindy Ecksol wonders whether pip is asking a question or making an attack
[12:49] Rose Springvale: not going off line, please ask in chat
[12:49] Pip Torok: and that makes you totally mot-neutral, Rose
[12:49] Rose Springvale: no
[12:50] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l
[12:50] Pip Torok: *not-neutral
[12:50] Rose Springvale: i disagree
[12:50] Rose Springvale: you are the one not neutral, as you appear to have made up your mind
[12:50] Pip Torok: the facts speak for themselves
[12:50] Patroklus Murakami: rose, are you trying to claim that you are *not* the Al Andalus Estate Owner?
[12:50] Arias Ahren: Raises Hand
[12:50] Rose Springvale: my method is to gather facts.
[12:50] Rose Springvale: that’s correct pat
[12:50] fig whispers: Greeting Alexia .
[12:50] Patroklus Murakami: this beggars belief
[12:50] Rose Springvale: linden labs sends invoices to the corporation
[12:50] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think aLRA should take care of the function of RA and not change the society
[12:50] Pip Torok: i stating facts Roser, not my mind
[12:51] Rose Springvale: ask the treasurer, she gets them
[12:51] Arias Ahren: Raises Hand
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Perhaps thisis like Sudane bein gour EO
[12:51] Rose Springvale: furthemore, the merger agreement was already adopted
[12:51] Cindy Ecksol agrees with Tor
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: Imo Rose wants what is best for all Sim including AA, but everybody else should want the same
[12:51] Rose Springvale: so the question left ti determine is if CDS will comply with it, Nothing really to debate here
[12:51] Patroklus Murakami: sudane can’t stand for office. the law forbids it
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: as she is treasurer
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol wonders what Pats point might be….
[12:52] Patroklus Murakami: the point is to avoid conflict of interest. and there is clearly one here
[12:52] fig whispers: Noticed hippoRENT
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: is that Sudane or Rudeen?
[12:52] Rose Springvale: well, if i didn’t own any land in CDS yoru point would have more weight
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol: Pat, if Sudane is the estate owner (by virtue of receiving the notices from LL) then where’s the conflict?
[12:52] Rose Springvale: but you don’t own land in AA, so perhaps you are conflicted?
[12:52] Pip Torok: If Sudane as EO cannot stand for office then how can Rose as EO stand for office?
[12:53] Solomon Mosely: forget sudane….
[12:53] Rose Springvale: VDI is the estate owner… and this is a moot point.. if i can be in RA, and no one challenged that
[12:53] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, what makes you think that is the case?
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: I thought ROse just pointd out that she is NOT the EO….
[12:53] Rose Springvale: how can you care now?
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: Rose does not receive the notices from LL…Sudane does.
[12:53] Rose Springvale: and i did seek a ruling before i ran
[12:53] Rose Springvale: cindy, VDI recieves the notices
[12:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the EO is the non profit which is more than one person
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: this is true
[12:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Sudane is not the EO (from a techbnical point it) either, in case you failed to notice
[12:53] Patroklus Murakami: where is this ruling rose?
[12:53] Pip Torok: Kas … in RA does the Boss chair your union?
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: ok, so it’s VDI, butu I still don’t see the conflict….
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: neither is Rose
[12:54] Rose Springvale: is there other questions? Pat, a member of only CDS, thinks members of both communities are conflicted.
[12:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: isn’t there 2 other people on the VDI ?
[12:54] Solomon Mosely: in any event, even if she *was* biased to lean towards *continuing* the agreed up merger, so has the cds, as the referendum illustrated.
[12:54] Rose Springvale: yes, stui, and CDS is supposed to appoint two more
[12:54] Solomon Mosely: if anything, you could accuse her of following the will of the people
[12:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and isn’t one of those others Dee ?
[12:54] Rose Springvale: there is no conflict cindy
[12:54] Patroklus Murakami: i think you have to perform some real mental double-think to believe that rose is not the AA estate owner
[12:54] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, I have no idea what you just said, and it’s entirely irrelevant. I believe the law forbids “the treasurer” from holding elected office, not the EO – and as pointed out, neither Sudane nor Rose is EO of record
[12:54] Arias Ahren: Raises Hand!
[12:54] Rose Springvale: thanks for your opinion pat. next?
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=182 (point 7) Read it please.
[12:55] Pip Torok: when you own or part-own VDI there _must_ be a conflict
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7). The EO will receive no compensation for the office. In addition, the EO will be prohibited from holding any elected or appointed office in the sim government, unless a waiver might be granted, on a case by case basis, by the SC. The only compensation provided will be the ceremonial title “Owner of the Sim”.
[12:55] Patroklus Murakami: “the EO will be prohibited from holding any elected or appointed office in the sim government, unless a waiver might be granted, on a case by case basis, by the SC.”
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: I agree with you rose: I see no conflict. But obviously Pat and Pip do…I’m just trying to figure this out.
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: Ah, Pip, now I see…you feel as though Rose OWNS part of VDI….
[12:55] Delia Lake: our law as written should be revisited for many reasons. it appears to be out of date regarding LL policies
[12:55] Timo Gufler: Rose, who are the board members of your non-profit organization?
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: but the fact is that one cannot “own” part of a not for profit….
[12:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: will we explore the AROSA link with the chancellor this time ?
[12:55] Arria Perreault: but this is the current law
[12:55] Patroklus Murakami: where is your ruling on this rose? is it a private word from the SC or has it been made public?
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: she’s a volunteer board member, not an employee or owner…
[12:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m just leaping ahead with my logic as others are wanting to do
[12:56] Pip Torok: but Rose _does_ have part-control over VDI
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: perhaps you’re just unfamiliar with that concept?
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: what is “control”?
[12:56] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l
[12:56] Rose Springvale: is there another question?
[12:56] Pip Torok: controlog policy
[12:56] Arias Ahren: Yes
[12:56] Rose Springvale: this has been answered
[12:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well Pip that’s rather like saying I get heard at RA last term and made all the decisions
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: Rose who collects the tier for AA?
[12:56] Patroklus Murakami: you have not answered mine rose
[12:56] Pip Torok: control of policy
[12:56] Arria Perreault: who will represent VDI in the negociation?
[12:56] Patroklus Murakami: where is your SC ruling?
[12:56] Arias Ahren: I believe that there is a person who has been nominated for the position of LRA who did not attend a single meeting of the RA during the last term.
I believe if this body if to ever be taken seriously that fact needs to be given serious consideration.
Rose: How many of last term RA meetings did you attend?
[12:57] Timo Gufler: who are the board members of the non-profit organization behind AA?
[12:57] Kaseido Quandry: More than you, chief.
[12:57] Rose Springvale: thanks for your input Arias. I attended a few, and read transcripts from them all.
[12:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Arias since when was it necessary for people to attend RA meetings to function as informed citizens ?
[12:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the Forum is supposed to plug the gaps
[12:57] Pip Torok: Rose Springvale, Micael Khandr, Delia Lake
[12:57] Patroklus Murakami: and i did seek a ruling before i ran<--- where is it? [12:57] Rose Springvale: i was not a member of the RA last term, and since the meetings were held during church hour, i chose church. [12:58] Arias Ahren: Rose: I have heard you say on a number of occasions that you “hate” four of the members or the newly elected RA. How do you propose to work with people that you say that you hate. [12:58] Rose Springvale: take your complaint to the SC pat, its really untimely now [12:58] Timo Gufler: Rose, did you see my question? [12:58] Rose Springvale: arias, i'm not aware of those conversations. [12:58] Patroklus Murakami: you have no ruling rose [12:58] Pip Torok: (Rose puts us firmly second, in our place!) [12:58] Arias Ahren: That is a lie [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think we should stick to the facts [12:59] Rose Springvale: i'm sorry timo, i didn't see your question, will you restate it [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and those that are commonly visible [12:59] Timo Gufler: who are the board members of the non-profit organization behind AA? [12:59] Patroklus Murakami: i wonder who the gang of four could be? [12:59] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, you stated that you believe the LRA should be independent- yet you were one of a minority of candidates to run as a member of a faction. How do you reconcile those things? [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not the suppositions that are not [12:59] Rose Springvale: VDI has three current board members, myself, micael khandr and Delia lake [12:59] Pip Torok: Rose Springvale, Micael Khandr, Delia Lake [12:57] MystiTool [12:59] Timo Gufler: ok, thank you [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have a question for AP [13:00] Rose Springvale: the merger agreement called for the CDS chancellor to serve, and for CDS to appoint two more members [13:00] Rose Springvale: CDS has not done so [13:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it had time until June 30 ) [13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Some pple here should never complaim abt personal attacks [13:00] Kaseido Quandry: Arria , did you not run on a faction platform of invalidating the merger? Is that not a clear conflict of interest? [13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head* that's like asking "you have opinions, isn't that a conflict of interest"? Kas, Arria gets elected because of opinios [13:01] Pip Torok knows Arria better than Kaseido does, it seems ... [13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *opinions even [13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP last term... I had a seconded motion at a meeting... and I had to wait for my vote... until others had discussed til their heart was content, then at other times I was forced to vote because someone had exactly the same on the table.... how can that be seen other than that I was being ignored ? [13:01] Kaseido Quandry: Arria made two statements which cannot be reconciled. [13:01] Rose Springvale: smiles at the double standards [13:02] Solomon Mosely: arria, your recent forum posts point to your exclusive interest in your monastery project. will that be the focus of your attention this term? or will it continue to fall through the cracks, like all other matters last term? [13:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia grins [13:02] Arria Perreault: In a parliament (as we are), someone has to chair the debate. This is an advantage and a disavantage. The fact you can set the agenda is an advantage. The disavantage is that you use your energy to manage the debate instead to participate complitely to this debate. That was my experience. Even I was CSDF member, I have taken in the agenda concerns from you or from Stui. Of course, at the moment of the vote, the LRA become again a normal member. [13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I was reading some old guild transcrips, I wonder if greek iles were put onhold because of the AA merger? [13:02] Solomon Mosely: arria, what did you do as lra last term to hold the chancellor accountable for following through on her obligations as exec? [13:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Tor — we felt we had plenty of sims to worry about [13:03] Kaseido Quandry waits for the answer to that question [13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I thin k Arria, the greed isles were a project you supported [13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I asked you in your capacity as LRA also to ask the RA members of the work group for citizenship def to be asked for their consent to be recorded... and you wouldn't ask them... and I asked more than 5 times and more.... [13:03] Solomon Mosely: arria, what did you do last term to get constitional holes regarding elections tidied up? [13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: consequently I wasn't able to supply the transcripts of this to the group members [13:03] Arria Perreault: we had a Bill about finances. It's still pending and ready to be voted [13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: how could you assure this sort of thing wouldn't occur again ? [13:04] Cindy Ecksol notes that that bill was in the LAST RA....to be voted in this RA it will have to be re-introduced. [13:04] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, do you not have a consistent record of failing to promote events run by anyone outside your faction, and have you not demonstrated consistent favoritism in events promotion? [13:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: i.e I'd like to be heard and treated as an equal [13:04] Arria Perreault: I am an RA member, Cindy. I can reintroduce it [13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria characterize your interest in the monaster. [13:05] Cindy Ecksol: yes @arria...but it is NOT currently pending. last term's bills are all dead unless reintroduced and re-seconded for discussion [13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, Cindy is right. [13:06] Arria Perreault: Tor, you're right to tell about that. I got so many reproaches when I had this project of sim, because I was in the RA and in the New Guild [13:06] Delia Lake: if i may as SC Dean make a point re the NL 5-6 Estate Owner Act. This law as written is aparently not up to date on LL policies regarding nonprofit sim ownership. and also we have in the CDS and have had a Treasurer and CDS EO who are one and the same rl person so there is precedent of long standing for a waiver from this law. Hereby, Rose is granted a waiver and if Sudane does not already have one she is granted a waiver retroactively. This law is being taken up by the SC for recommended revision [13:06] Arria Perreault: so I have left these two groups to concentrate on the project [13:06] Patroklus Murakami: LOL! [13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl [13:06] Arria Perreault: when the sim was voted, I was not member of the RA [13:06] Arria Perreault: I WAS consistent [13:06] Patroklus Murakami: delia, r u holding SC meetings here too now? [13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that was fast [13:07] Patroklus Murakami: (and, as a member of VDI, should you not recuse yourself?) [13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: but yiu still have a considerable interest in the monastery. [13:07] Rose Springvale: smiles, VDI is not running for office [13:07] Patroklus Murakami: (conflict of interest? hmm?) [13:07] Pip Torok recognises the SC ruling but notes the total conflict of interest for an LRA [13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (well, Pat, actually, nothing really forbids SC members to be EOs ) [13:07] Solomon Mosely: arria, what assurances do we have that you don't really just represent your party, and will give equal attention to the issues raised bu others in ra? [13:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *thinks AROSA* [13:07] Arias Ahren: The developer of VDI is [13:07] Arria Perreault: and Kas, I have a lot to say about communication. The only hing I want to tell you is that you mixt constlantly public information and event promotion. I don't [13:08] Arias Ahren: Is running for office [13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: IN SL many of us here have other sims we are involved in [13:08] Arria Perreault: because I did during the last term. I have taken concernns from other sides [13:08] Patroklus Murakami: and, when the sims have all been handed over to VDI? there will be no conflict of interest! [13:08] Kaseido Quandry: Was not Feria a public event? Did you not fail to promote it? Was not the pirate party a private event? Did you not promote that extensively? [13:08] Solomon Mosely: really? like what? [13:08] Timo Gufler: good point, Pat [13:08] Rose Springvale: VDI doesn't have any interest in others sims [13:09] Kaseido Quandry: did you not fail to promote the public event of the photography contest? [13:09] Arria Perreault: Pirate event was a project of the regional committe of CN-LA [13:09] Solomon Mosely: "when all sims are handed over to vdi"? [13:09] Pip Torok: Rose, how do we know you won't try to take the CDS sims for VDI? [13:09] Solomon Mosely: what does that even mean? [13:09] Rose Springvale: LOL [13:09] Arria Perreault: Fera was a project of the regional committe of AA [13:09] Patroklus Murakami: of course not rose. but your friends will 'suggest' the CDS is turned over and you'll agree [13:09] Rose Springvale: pip, that is a very naive statement [13:09] Rose Springvale: no Feria was a CDS event [13:09] Rose Springvale: like oktoberfest [13:09] Pip Torok notes that LOL is no answer ... [13:09] Solomon Mosely: yea, thats completely impossible [13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note that it's not the job of the *LRA* to promote and announce events That's why we have an *Executive* [13:09] Patroklus Murakami: and all the ppl making decisions will be... in VDI! [13:09] Arria Perreault: no, Rose, I find this is an interesting question [13:10] Solomon Mosely: ohhh... and the executive who was supposed to appoint a pio [13:10] Rose Springvale: to transfer sims from one owner to another requires action from both [13:10] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, thank you - I'll be quoting you on that when we vote on the Executive! [13:10] Solomon Mosely: and a land management team? [13:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Kas please do [13:10] fig whispers: Noticed hippoRENT [13:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *notes that Pip would always want no other answer than the one he wants to hear* [13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: VDI is a neutral holding company [13:10] Rose Springvale: VDI can't "take over" anything [13:10] Arria Perreault: the exec organizes her/his office [13:10] Pip Torok: On the contrary, Rose ... it goes to the heart of the matter [13:10] Rose Springvale: please explain Pip [13:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: sometimes life just isn't that fair Pippy [13:10] fig whispers: Noticed mathiew [13:10] Arria Perreault: Sonja has sold out the land: 2 parcels are for sale now [13:11] Solomon Mosely: pat, you're misinformation is disgusting and disruptive [13:11] Solomon Mosely: no pip, that isnt even an issue [13:11] Pip Torok: Sonja has plots in NFS [13:11] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:11] Kaseido Quandry: Interesting, as Sonja was utterly uninolved in *my* two purchases of land [13:11] Arria Perreault: and there is 2 new channels of information [13:11] Patroklus Murakami: mark my words. we will look back at this in six months and it will be too late by then [13:11] Solomon Mosely: you're creating it to create fear of some phantom takover, which isnt even possible [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that this big focus is frankly insulting of Micael and Dee's integrity [13:11] Pip Torok: its very much an issue Sol [13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: sonja didn'd sell the land, pple just bought it [13:11] Solomon Mosely: go back to your "rovian" playbook and try again [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I know both Micael and Dee [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and they are capable of being heard [13:11] Arria Perreault: this is the goal, Tor [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and of making their points [13:11] Arria Perreault: to see the land sold [13:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and not being influenced [13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonjay never marketed anything [13:12] Arria Perreault: she just put parcels for sales that were blocked for a long time [13:12] Kaseido Quandry: well, not anything in the CDS, at least :p [13:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right. So let me ask a question to BOTH candidates. Will you support legislation that regulates the way the VDI will respect the CDS' decisions, and, if so, how will those be enforced? [13:12] Rose Springvale: blocked? [13:12] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Is not Rose more controversial than Arria. LRA ought to be as little controversial as possible [13:12] Arria Perreault: not for sale in-world = block [13:12] Arria Perreault: visibly it is the best method as all is sold out [13:12] Pip Torok cheers Gwyn [13:13] Rose Springvale: not true Arria. all the was owned by the CDS was placed for sale before she took office [13:13] Solomon Mosely: none of you dpu/csdf people have read the merger, have you? [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Muh - not in my view [13:13] Arria Perreault: why do you claim about that [13:13] Rose Springvale: and not the law from the last term [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in my view AP didn't listen to me [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and ignored me [13:13] Rose Springvale: the query re agreements [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but didn't do the same with others in the room [13:13] Solomon Mosely: VDI, is CONTROLLED by the CDS exec! it can't do anything without cds! [13:13] fig whispers: Noticed Lilith [13:13] Arria Perreault: during the 11th term, people claimed we had so many unsold land and now thy claim because it's sold out [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore that's more my concern [13:13] Rose Springvale: Gwyn, CDS agreed to take the AA sims and preserve the non profit status [13:13] Patroklus Murakami: sol, i think we need some guarantees on that [13:13] Pip Torok: All right. So let me ask a question to BOTH candidates. Will you support legislation that regulates the way the VDI will respect the CDS' decisions, and, if so, how will those be enforced? [13:14] Rose Springvale: CDS doesn't have to have anything to do with VDI, so long as it has an organiztion that meets the requirements for LL [13:14] Arria Perreault: who will represent VDI in the negociation? [13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: bloody hell we have an echo [13:14] Solomon Mosely: read the freaking docs pat [13:14] Solomon Mosely: arent you supposed to be a lawyer? [13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or Gwyn is throwing her voice [13:14] Rose Springvale: if they don't wish to make their own, then an operating agreement is an option [13:14] Rose Springvale: but [13:14] Arria Perreault: a contract need negociators [13:14] Solomon Mosely: see, i know you're not really this stupid pat [13:14] Solomon Mosely: i know you must have read them [13:14] Patroklus Murakami: i've read em (no, i employ lawyers but i'm not one:-)) [13:14] Solomon Mosely: and this is just more of the same fear-mongering you tried last term [13:14] muhammedyussif Wikinger: please end discussion and start voting [13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ORDER ! [13:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ORDER !! [13:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *wacks his toy gavel down on the desk [13:15] Kaseido Quandry: I agree with muhammad - this is futile [13:15] Pip Torok: then Sol, i'd hate to be you when you found out how things are .... [13:15] Arria Perreault: Rose, I have a serious question for you [13:15] Kaseido Quandry: we know how we're voting, let's get to it [13:15] Rose Springvale: 5. A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the benefit of the CDS government. [13:15] Solomon Mosely: you'd be lucky [13:15] Solomon Mosely: fig come [13:15] Solomon Mosely: fig good [13:15] Solomon Mosely: fig sit [13:15] Rose Springvale: not sure how much clearer that can be gwyn [13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's too minimalistic [13:16] Rose Springvale: but it is clear [13:16] Patroklus Murakami: so why did you do nothing about this in the 11th RA Rose? [13:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we have a member of the SC on the VDI [13:16] Rose Springvale: nothing? [13:16] Patroklus Murakami: and why did no one come with a proposal during the 12th? [13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For instance, "managing for the benefit of the CDS government" might mean "sell everything in the CDS to Caledon for L$1" because it might be "for the benefit" of the CDS government doing so [13:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think she'd be capable of making the point to the SC if anything was untoward ? [13:17] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: n'est pas ? [13:17] Cindy Ecksol: well, gwyn, seems that if it's too minimalistic, RA can be more specific...but it sure does seem pretty specific to me regarding who "controls" VDI.... [13:17] Pip Torok notes article 5. particularly the conflict of interest with it for any LRA [13:17] Cindy Ecksol: and it's definitely not Rose...unless we elect her Chancellor. [13:17] Rose Springvale: that would require a vote of the RA wouldn't it gwyn [13:17] Solomon Mosely: wre any of you residents of cds when the merger was drafted? [13:17] Arria Perreault: Cindy, the law must consider every potential case [13:17] Patroklus Murakami: why not elect her empress and have done with it? [13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can only hope so, Rose [13:17] Solomon Mosely: and proposed to ra? [13:17] Arria Perreault: not considering people [13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. I guess I'm used to 1000-page contracts with US companies A one-paragraph-agreement just scares me, sorry [13:17] Delia Lake: yes, i was and am a cds resident [13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's irrational, I know. [13:17] Cindy Ecksol: Arria, as we well know in real life, the law CANNOT consider every case. [13:18] Rose Springvale: you need better lawyers [13:18] Solomon Mosely: not you delia [13:18] Cindy Ecksol: that is why we have Supreme Courts and SC's to make rulings [13:18] Delia Lake: i have been a cds resident for 3.5 yrs [13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: perhaps, Rose I won't question that [13:18] Rose Springvale: as have i [13:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Why not let patty be a drama queen and we'll all bow on our knees to his oscar winning perfomance as the creator of the best overstatement of this term ? [13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft [13:18] Rose Springvale: can we please stop name calling? [13:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: a queen would be much better than a princess [13:18] Rose Springvale: we are adults. use your words! [13:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: empress even [13:19] Solomon Mosely: my point was, why the sudden questions? this has been planned for years now [13:19] Cindy Ecksol loves the subtle digs... [13:19] Rose Springvale: delia, i dont' have the rest of the day for this, can we call for vote? [13:19] Delia Lake: i was just thinking about that.... let's all take a couple of minutes of silence [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: I move to close discussion. can I have a second? [13:19] Kaseido Quandry: second [13:19] Patroklus Murakami: i just wonder why the supporters of merger did *nothing* about the non-profit last term... just sayin; [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: whew! [13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: second [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of closing discussion? [13:19] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: (say aye) [13:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye [13:20] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:20] Rose Springvale: aye [13:20] Lilith Ivory: aye [13:20] Delia Lake: and review what each of the candidates for LRA said about their view of the job [13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: aye [13:20] Cindy Ecksol: aye [13:20] Timo Gufler: aye [13:20] Cindy Ecksol: I believe we have eight votes to close discussion [13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: that was my first vote [13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: yuo go fig [13:20] Patroklus Murakami: aye to closing discussion [13:20] Solomon Mosely: but we still vote here today, right? [13:20] Cindy Ecksol: I move to vote on the RA selection. Second? [13:21] Pip Torok: aye [13:21] Arias Ahren: May I make one more statement? [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: sorry..LRA selection [13:21] Arria Perreault: aye [13:21] Patroklus Murakami: um cindy. not so fast [13:21] Rose Springvale: no discussion closed [13:21] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:21] Solomon Mosely: aye [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: um...Pat, discussion is closed. [13:21] Timo Gufler: aye [13:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Trust Tor to lose his voting virginity in something nothing to do with me... I feel like he cheated on me *LOL* [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: and we have a second for moving to a vote [13:21] Patroklus Murakami: so, this is the new regime [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: coting now... [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: voting now.... [13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: [13:21] Arria Perreault: aye [13:21] Patroklus Murakami: aye, get on with it [13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hail. I mean, aye [13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: aye [13:22] Lilith Ivory: aye for voting now [13:22] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE AYE AYE !!! *bangs his toy gavel* [13:22] Solomon Mosely: aye [13:22] Cindy Ecksol: aye [13:22] Cindy Ecksol: ok, one vote each.... [13:22] Patroklus Murakami thought delia was chairing the meeting.... [13:22] Solomon Mosely: you had your train wreck last term, its over [13:22] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of Arria say aye please? [13:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye [13:22] Pip Torok: aye [13:22] Patroklus Murakami: aye [13:22] Timo Gufler: aye! [13:22] Arria Perreault: aye [13:23] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of rose say aye please? [13:23] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:23] Lilith Ivory: aye [13:23] Solomon Mosely: aye for rose [13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE !!! [13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: aye for Rose [13:23] Cindy Ecksol: aye for rose [13:23] Rose Springvale: aye [13:23] Solomon Mosely: fig, you're not ra, hush [13:23] Kaseido Quandry: [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe [13:24] Arria Perreault: 6 to 7, I bet it will be the result for all votes during this term ... [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: probably not [13:24] Rose Springvale: i hope not Arria [13:24] Cindy Ecksol: not everyone has voted.... [13:24] Solomon Mosely: welcome to politics [13:24] Cindy Ecksol: rose? [13:24] Delia Lake: 6 for Arria, 7 for Rose [13:24] Kaseido Quandry: rose voted [13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Rose voted [13:24] Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok, I missed it. [13:24] Delia Lake: yes everyone voted [13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: lilith? [13:24] Lilith Ivory: I voted for Rose [13:24] Lilith Ivory: go figure [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [13:24] Rose Springvale: thank you all for your support. I look forward to working with all of you [13:25] Cindy Ecksol: congratulations madame LRA.... [13:25] Kaseido Quandry cheers [13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: congrats, Rose [13:25] Arria Perreault: all? [13:25] Delia Lake: Congratulations, Rose [13:25] Rose Springvale: yes arria, all. [13:25] mathiew Glenwalker: congrats rose [13:25] Lilith Ivory: congratulations Rose [13:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yay [13:25] Rose Springvale: thanks [13:25] Rose Springvale: i have a notecard [13:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: congratulations!! [13:25] Arria Perreault: did you see my first list of proposals in the forum? [13:25] Rose Springvale: of the issues that we need to deal with this term [13:25] Patroklus Murakami: congratulations rose [13:25] Rose Springvale: and proposed timelines [13:25] Rose Springvale: i''ll send a copy to each member of the RA [13:25] Arria Perreault: congratulations, of course. I am fair [13:26] Rose Springvale: and ask you to add to or comment, and let me know what areays you want to work on [13:26] Rose Springvale: hang on, if you will [13:26] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2894 [13:27] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rosy I kept it warm [13:27] Cindy Ecksol: nice job, stui! [13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: all my leaping up and down [13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I patted the cushion [13:28] Rose Springvale: i'll send a notice around on the first meeting, at which point we will elect a chancellor, and discuss the plan for the term [13:28] Timo Gufler accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Patroklus Murakami accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Cindy Ecksol accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Tor Karlsvalt accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] muhammedyussif Wikinger accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Pip Torok accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Kaseido Quandry accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Rose Springvale: if you've not posted your availabitliy on the forums, please do so, or send me a note or im [13:28] Solomon Mosely accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Lilith Ivory accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: whoa it's like war and peace [13:29] Rose Springvale: thank you Delia and the SC for faciliitating the new term [13:29] Rose Springvale: yes, stui, there is a lot to do [13:29] Rose Springvale: hopefully we won't hav etime to bicker [13:29] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: damn I'll miss that *looks up at the ceiling* [13:30] Rose Springvale: hehe [13:30] Rose Springvale: if there is nothing further, lets adjourn [13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [13:30] Rose Springvale: all in favor? [13:30] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye [13:30] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:30] Lilith Ivory: aye [13:30] Solomon Mosely: aye [13:30] Tor Karlsvalt: aye [13:30] Timo Gufler: aye [13:30] Lilith Ivory: when do we have a party? [13:30] Arria Perreault: aye [13:31] Patroklus Murakami: aye [13:31] Cindy Ecksol: aye [13:31] Arria Perreault: I think Sonja has started to organizing it [13:31] Lilith Ivory: ah great [13:31] Solomon Mosely: lol [13:31] Solomon Mosely: should we ask the pio from last term [13:31] Kaseido Quandry snickers [13:31] Rose Springvale: we are adjourned, ending record

Permalink.

RA Meeting 1 June 2010

Transcript from the RA meeting, June 1, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Tue Jun 01, 2010 1:41 pm
[12:10] Delia Lake: well, we have all the new representatives here
[12:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Good evening and Welcome Mathiew
[12:10] Solomon Mosely: touch anything
[12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Stui and Cindy!
[12:10] Rose Springvale: sign records without touch apparently
[12:10] Cindy Ecksol: may have to multitask….
[12:10] DavidJrDotCom Asp: hi everyone
[12:10] mathiew Glenwalker: thank you stui
[12:10] fig whispers: Greeting Arias .
[12:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: a new face in the crowd !
[12:10] Rose Springvale: and color codes for posting
[12:10] mathiew Glenwalker: yeahhhhhh
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: yea!
[12:11] Rose Springvale: so do we begin?
[12:11] Delia Lake: yes
[12:11] Solomon Mosely: ok, 15 after
[12:11] Solomon Mosely: who’s driving?
[12:11] Patroklus Murakami: let’s get started
[12:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: are you sitting comfortably ?
[12:11] Delia Lake: i will start
[12:11] Rose Springvale: Delia, do you want to administer the oath?
[12:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: then I’ll Begin
[12:11] Cindy Ecksol: recorder will record and send a transcript to me now…
[12:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is anyone sitting here ?
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: not yethehe
[12:12] Delia Lake: as Dean of the SC, I congratulate each and everyone of you on your election as representative in the 13th term of the CDS RA
[12:12] Cindy Ecksol: go ahead, stui, try ti out
[12:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll test it
[12:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: maybe AP left a booby trap
[12:12] Delia Lake: The Confederation of Democratic Simulators is a democratic state. One of the freedoms embodied in our Constitution is that of religious choice as specified in one of its Founding Documents, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
[12:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *counts to ten*
[12:13] Delia Lake: i have passed to each of you a copy of the RA Affirmation of Office
[12:13] Delia Lake: Out of our respect for diverse religious beliefs about taking oaths as well as for RA members who may be non-religious, the following affirmation does not contain any referrences to any supernatural entities.
[12:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: other than me eh Dee Dee
[12:14] Delia Lake: However, anyone taking office who may wish to do so may add the words “So help me God” [or any other entity] at the end, if they wish so. They may also replace the words “affirm” by “swear” if they are so inclined.
[12:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I do it first ?
[12:15] Delia Lake: if you would please, each insert your own name into the NAME space of the affirmation, and enter your affirmation into the chat for the log.
[12:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can I go first ?
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: lol Stui, hurry then! :p
[12:15] Delia Lake: so long as we get everyone
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: /afk
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, I am ready
[12:16] Pip Torok: (the first will be last and the last will be first
[12:16] Rose Springvale: we are waiting for you stui
[12:16] Delia Lake: and as quickly as possible
[12:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oops I think my copy is incomplete
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[12:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Dee Dee can you resend it ?
[12:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:16] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I, muhammedyussif Wikinger, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators. so help me God
[12:16] Rose Springvale: sorry stui, too slow
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see, your chance is lost, Stui
[12:16] Pip Torok: I, Pip Torok, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:16] Lilith Ivory: I, Lilith Ivory, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: I Tor Karlsvalt, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I, Arria Perreault, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Patroklus Murakami: I, Patroklus Murakami, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I had to delay somehow – it’s my trait *LOL*
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I, Gwyneth Llewelyn, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Rose Springvale: I, Rose Springvale, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Timo Gufler: I, Timo Gufler, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol !
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I, StuiChicanne Darkstone (Stui), having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
So help me Patty !
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: @ Stui… heh
[12:17] Solomon Mosely: I, Solomon Mosely, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:17] Lilith Ivory giggles
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Patty loves me
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: deep down inside
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see that we’re managing to crash all devices around us…
[12:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[12:18] Rose Springvale: yep
[12:18] mathiew Glenwalker asks himself: is crashing contageous?
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope not, mathiew
[12:18] Delia Lake: many people have been crashing today
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: ok, sorry…I’m back
[12:18] Solomon Mosely: oh, having a storm here, always knocks my connection wonky
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: me to Mat
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: client in crisis
[12:18] mathiew Glenwalker: wear your masks!
[12:19] mathiew Glenwalker thinks he is really contageous
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my. We’re having an agitated meeting.
[12:19] Delia Lake: lol
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m wearing my safety unders
[12:19] Delia Lake: we are missing Cindy
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: anti crash unders
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Cindy Doody !
[12:19] mathiew Glenwalker: lol
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: ok, back again….
[12:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s your turn
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: sorry….
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: phone won’t stop ringing
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: your turn to swear
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Cindy
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: we are missing Kas
[12:19] Timo Gufler: turn it off
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: card?
[12:19] Delia Lake: oops yes
[12:19] Delia Lake: lost Kas
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: let´s swear now and be nice the rest of the term
[12:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can teach Cindy to swear
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Stui lol
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: second for lillith
[12:20] Cindy Ecksol: I, Cindy Ecksol, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll just try her patience a bit
[12:20] fig whispers: Noticed Arria
[12:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: esp. if she is chancellor
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
[12:21] Delia Lake: we are stil missing Kas
[12:21] Cindy Ecksol: thank you stui — I SOOOO appreciate your support!
[12:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can put on a ladies voice
[12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: she isn’t even on yet
[12:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll pretend to be Kas
[12:21] Delia Lake: no
[12:21] Delia Lake: and no )
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: she seemes to be crashed
[12:21] Solomon Mosely: ok, well, 10/13, can we still elect lra?
[12:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can be Lady G
[12:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: You’ve been a very bad girl, a very very bad BAD girl, gaga!
[12:22] Patroklus Murakami: kas will get a 7-day vote if she is not able to come back
[12:22] Delia Lake: this as you know is the first RA under new rules where Factions are not the organizing groups
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: ah
[12:22] Lilith Ivory: wb Kas
[12:22] Rose Springvale: yay Kas!
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Kas
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: thanks –
[12:22] Delia Lake: in the past there has been a LRA previous to the first RA meeting of a new term
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: my apologies, I had to reboot my router
[12:22] fig whispers: Greeting CDS_NewPraetorium_l.
[12:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s ok Kas I offered to put on my lady voice
[12:23] Kaseido Quandry: lol! thanks, Stui!
[12:23] Delia Lake: as soon as Kas has rezzed and taken her affirmation
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha
[12:23] fig whispers: Greeting Notecard .
[12:23] Kaseido Quandry: I, Kaseido Quandry, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[12:23] Delia Lake: ty Kas
[12:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY !
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there you go — congrats to all new RA members for the 13th term!
[12:23] fig whispers: Greeting Cindy .
[12:23] Delia Lake: we have now officially constituted the 13th RA
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo!
[12:24] Pip Torok: yes congratulation , all
[12:24] fig whispers: Greeting StuiChicanne .
[12:24] Kaseido Quandry cheers, in a glowing, cloud-like way
[12:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oooh who is fig ?
[12:24] Patroklus Murakami: 13…. hmmmm!
[12:24] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oh it’s sol’s dog
[12:24] Solomon Mosely: your new master stui
[12:24] Rose Springvale: lucky number
[12:24] Arria Perreault: 13 for the 13th RA
[12:24] fig whispers: Greeting Patroklus .
[12:24] Kaseido Quandry giggles
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: How more lucky can we get?
[12:24] Delia Lake: so my duties are over, and you all may now self organize to elect your LRA for this term
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll last until 2013, I’m sure
[12:25] Solomon Mosely: i bet stu knows
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you were blessed when I walked in
[12:25] Rose Springvale: smiles. and
[12:25] Rose Springvale: if we are lucky and efficient
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Who is the 13th
[12:25] Rose Springvale: 13 meetings
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope to do more, but that’s for the next RA meeting…
[12:25] Rose Springvale: okay, i am going to just ask for nominations for LRA…
[12:25] Kaseido Quandry: I nominate Rose Springvale for LRA
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … to discuss
[12:25] Solomon Mosely: a little alchemy and we make 13 a good number
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: me i think
[12:25] Rose Springvale: so we aren’t stalled
[12:25] Patroklus Murakami: i nominate arria perreault for LRA
[12:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I second
[12:26] Pip Torok: I nominate arria Perrault
[12:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I second Rosy !
[12:26] Timo Gufler: I second Pip
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds either Pat or Pip (same nomination!)
[12:26] Lilith Ivory: I second Rose
[12:26] Rose Springvale: lol
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:26] Rose Springvale: other nominations?
[12:26] Kaseido Quandry: call for vote
[12:26] Timo Gufler: I second Arria (I meant)
[12:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: don’t all rush to nominate me
[12:26] Patroklus Murakami: hold on
[12:26] Cindy Ecksol: ummm…discussion?
[12:26] Patroklus Murakami: could we ask the candidtes qns before we vote?
[12:27] Pip Torok: we need a discussion …
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: note that Rose got 22 votes in the last election for first pref
[12:27] Rose Springvale: why?
[12:27] Rose Springvale: we have never before
[12:27] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[12:27] Rose Springvale: this isn’t chancellor
[12:27] Lilith Ivory agrees with Tor
[12:27] Pip Torok: whats that to do with it Tor?
[12:27] Patroklus Murakami: we never had an election for LRA before rose
[12:27] Cindy Ecksol: Rose, we’ve never ELECTED a LRA before
[12:27] Patroklus Murakami: so we never had a chance
[12:27] Arria Perreault: this is the first election of an LRA, Rose
[12:27] Rose Springvale: i’m aware of that
[12:27] Arria Perreault: I am ready to answer questions
[12:27] Solomon Mosely: fig come
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we did elect one… as a replacement once
[12:27] Patroklus Murakami: could delia continue to chair until we have an LRA elected?
[12:28] Rose Springvale: sure, want to start with statements?
[12:28] Patroklus Murakami: so this does not become a free-for-all
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now that’s a good idea, Pat I second that
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: that is a good idea Pat
[12:28] fig whispers: Noticed Lilith
[12:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: hasn’t an RA member who’s been elected with the most votes got the support of the citizens and so therefore has the greater right to be here than our choice as the elected body ?
[12:28] Patroklus Murakami: no stui. thats not how it works
[12:28] Cindy Ecksol: no, stui, the new law does not state that.
[12:28] Rose Springvale: its okayu stui, lets just do it
[12:28] Pip Torok: not in th constitution Stui
[12:28] Delia Lake: the new law does not specify
[12:28] Cindy Ecksol: we have to make it up as we go along
[12:29] Arria Perreault: it was the former law
[12:29] Solomon Mosely: that logic held when parties ruled, but not now ffor some reason
[12:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I hope we stick to the constitution this term
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: NO but I think that should be considered.
[12:29] Rose Springvale: okay, i’m prepared for questions. go for it
[12:29] Cindy Ecksol notes that it had no logic previously…but it was the law
[12:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I thought the mandate of the citizenship would be sufficient… *LOL*
[12:29] Rose Springvale: but lets keep it to 15 minutes okay?
[12:29] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we could have candidate statements and then questions?
[12:29] Patroklus Murakami: short statements?
[12:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I didn’t think we were higher than they are
[12:29] Pip Torok: second pats suggestion
[12:29] Delia Lake: we have 2 nominees for LRA, Rose and Arria
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, sounds reasonable — a short statement would be fine
[12:30] Rose Springvale: arria, go ahead, i’m sure you are prepared
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria shoiuld go first as she is the last LRA, or have the option
[12:30] Arria Perreault: let’s say we take the alphabetical order …
[12:31] Solomon Mosely: holy cow
[12:31] Solomon Mosely: first or last name….?
[12:31] Arria Perreault: I am running for the position of LRA. I had this position for one term already.
[12:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Sol… Rl Name or SL name ?
[12:31] Solomon Mosely: heh
[12:31] Arria Perreault: I think I am able to take in account the proposals of the different members of the RA and of the citizen to set the agenda and to manage the debates.
[12:32] Arria Perreault: during my term, the agenda was open to everyone who had a proposal, which seems to me important in democracy
[12:32] Arria Perreault: Because of her/his tasks in this Assembly, the LRA has a duty of neutrality.
[12:32] Arria Perreault: I think it will important during this term to have someone able to be neutral to manage this assembly
[12:33] Arria Perreault: it is not the main task of the LRA to develop projects
[12:33] Arria Perreault: I think also that it isimportant to avoid conflicts of interest
[12:33] Arria Perreault: as you know, I have no interest in Al-ANdalus
[12:34] Kaseido Quandry: isn’t that the truth
[12:34] Solomon Mosely: no kidding
[12:34] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well at least we aren’t dressing it up
[12:34] Arria Perreault: I consider I can manage the different debates we will have, especially about the agreement between CDS and the owner of AA
[12:35] Patroklus Murakami notes that ‘no interest in’ has a number of meanings which people who speak english as a second language might not be aware of
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed
[12:35] Arria Perreault: we should have serene debates about this question and other
[12:35] Arria Perreault: That’s why I believe I can manage this task during this term.
[12:36] Arria Perreault: Thank you
[12:36] Cindy Ecksol scratches her head wondering whether a “serene debate” would be any fun…..
[12:36] Solomon Mosely: claps
[12:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Arria!
[12:36] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[12:36] Pip Torok: claps
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: haha cindy
[12:36] Rose Springvale: shall i go or shall arria take questions first?
[12:36] mathiew Glenwalker: claps too
[12:36] Cindy Ecksol claps
[12:36] Timo Gufler claps
[12:36] Pip Torok: suggest arria takes questions now …
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: I think you should do yur statement first
[12:37] Rose Springvale: delia?
[12:37] Delia Lake: yes, Rose, then people may ask questions of both of you
[12:37] Rose Springvale: thank you. and thank you to Arria.
[12:37] Rose Springvale: Three words define what i want from the RA this term
[12:37] Rose Springvale: Accountability, Accessibility and Action.
[12:38] Patroklus Murakami: AA and A nice
[12:38] Rose Springvale: it is the job of the RA to lead the community, and that means that it is our job to assure that the people we elect are doing their job
[12:38] Patroklus Murakami: in case we wondered what the priority was
[12:38] Pip Torok wonders where “independence comes in
[12:38] Rose Springvale: that includes the Chancellor, the staff and our members.
[12:38] Rose Springvale: appreciates the courtesy being extended
[12:38] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, if you play her speech backwars, it says “All Hail Satan” too :p
[12:39] Rose Springvale: accessibility…. we don’t need to sit on high chaira and rule. We need to be among the people. we need to talk to our neighbors, we need their input on our laws
[12:39] Rose Springvale: we need to have open meetings where all are encouraged to participate
[12:39] Rose Springvale: in varying days and time zones
[12:39] Rose Springvale: we need in short, to represent.
[12:39] Rose Springvale: and action.
[12:40] Rose Springvale: the last RA will forever be characterized by what it didnt’ get done
[12:40] Rose Springvale: that’s not healthy.
[12:40] Rose Springvale: Much has been said about neutrality.
[12:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (and needing a megaphone)
[12:40] Rose Springvale: and conflict of interest
[12:40] Rose Springvale: yet no one has spoken about facts.
[12:40] Rose Springvale: the facts:
[12:40] Rose Springvale: Arria has come out opposing, publickly the AA merger
[12:41] Rose Springvale: I have always, and continue to be, left the option open that AA may or may not continue
[12:41] Pip Torok thinks this shd be about Rose not Arria
[12:41] Rose Springvale: I have spent many hours working for CDS, trying to create an environment open and friendly to all who wish to participate iin a democratic experiment
[12:41] Rose Springvale: i will continue to do so
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: **’`*`’** Stui **’`*`’**
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: thinks it’s free speech
[12:42] Rose Springvale: i don’t have preconcieved notions about who is good or bad
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: I think arriawas not interrupted
[12:42] Rose Springvale: i don’t expect to be yoked with assumptions based on innuendo, but to deal solely in facts
[12:42] Rose Springvale: I can do this job, and i have no party affiliation
[12:43] Rose Springvale: so i guess i’m confused when i’m labeld “not neurtral”
[12:43] Rose Springvale: i have a list of the issues for the 13th RA
[12:43] Rose Springvale: it is long
[12:43] Rose Springvale: it is going to take work
[12:43] Patroklus Murakami: but you do have a conflict of interest – as Al Andalus Estate Owner and founder of the VDI non-profit which owns them
[12:43] Rose Springvale: it is goign to take eveyrone in this room to accomplish
[12:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Patty
[12:43] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l
[12:43] Solomon Mosely: save it for questions pat
[12:43] Rose Springvale: will be happy to take your questions later
[12:43] Rose Springvale: but we cannot afford to continue the way we have been
[12:44] Rose Springvale: if we want to be taken seriously, and i for one do, then we need to quit “Playing Politics” and illustrate democracy in virtual worlds
[12:44] Rose Springvale: I challenge you all to join me, professionally, as we take on this taxk
[12:44] Rose Springvale: task.
[12:44] Rose Springvale: thank you
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol applauds enthusiastically
[12:44] Lilith Ivory claps
[12:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: YAY !
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[12:44] mathiew Glenwalker applauds
[12:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you, Rose
[12:45] Solomon Mosely: claps
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks rose
[12:45] Patroklus Murakami claps
[12:45] Kaseido Quandry applauds
[12:45] Ulysse Alexandre claps
[12:45] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I put a candle down to light the way
[12:46] Solomon Mosely: ok, questions
[12:46] Pip Torok raises hand for a quetion
[12:47] fig whispers: Greeting CLEOPATRA .
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: Pip has a question
[12:48] Kaseido Quandry: I don’t think chaos will ensue if we all just ask them
[12:48] fig whispers: Noticed Timo
[12:48] Pip Torok: Rose how can you know your not totally unsuitable? As the Estate Owner for Al Andalus and the founder of the VDI non-profit which owns the AA sims, Rose has a clear vested interest in both the finalisation of the merger with AA and any future transfer of the CDS sims to VDI. In these circumstances it would be _wholly_ inappropriate for her to set the agenda for, organise and chair RA meetings
[12:48] Timo Gufler throws a bone to fig
[12:48] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See also: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=182 (point 7)
[12:49] Rose Springvale: you are operating on assumptions that have no basis in fact pip. 1) Virtual democracy Inc, a texas non profit corporation, which has three board members, owns the AA estate
[12:49] Cindy Ecksol wonders whether pip is asking a question or making an attack
[12:49] Rose Springvale: not going off line, please ask in chat
[12:49] Pip Torok: and that makes you totally mot-neutral, Rose
[12:49] Rose Springvale: no
[12:50] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l
[12:50] Pip Torok: *not-neutral
[12:50] Rose Springvale: i disagree
[12:50] Rose Springvale: you are the one not neutral, as you appear to have made up your mind
[12:50] Pip Torok: the facts speak for themselves
[12:50] Patroklus Murakami: rose, are you trying to claim that you are *not* the Al Andalus Estate Owner?
[12:50] Arias Ahren: Raises Hand
[12:50] Rose Springvale: my method is to gather facts.
[12:50] Rose Springvale: that’s correct pat
[12:50] fig whispers: Greeting Alexia .
[12:50] Patroklus Murakami: this beggars belief
[12:50] Rose Springvale: linden labs sends invoices to the corporation
[12:50] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think aLRA should take care of the function of RA and not change the society
[12:50] Pip Torok: i stating facts Roser, not my mind
[12:51] Rose Springvale: ask the treasurer, she gets them
[12:51] Arias Ahren: Raises Hand
[12:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Perhaps thisis like Sudane bein gour EO
[12:51] Rose Springvale: furthemore, the merger agreement was already adopted
[12:51] Cindy Ecksol agrees with Tor
[12:51] Lilith Ivory: Imo Rose wants what is best for all Sim including AA, but everybody else should want the same
[12:51] Rose Springvale: so the question left ti determine is if CDS will comply with it, Nothing really to debate here
[12:51] Patroklus Murakami: sudane can’t stand for office. the law forbids it
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: as she is treasurer
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol wonders what Pats point might be….
[12:52] Patroklus Murakami: the point is to avoid conflict of interest. and there is clearly one here
[12:52] fig whispers: Noticed hippoRENT
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: is that Sudane or Rudeen?
[12:52] Rose Springvale: well, if i didn’t own any land in CDS yoru point would have more weight
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol: Pat, if Sudane is the estate owner (by virtue of receiving the notices from LL) then where’s the conflict?
[12:52] Rose Springvale: but you don’t own land in AA, so perhaps you are conflicted?
[12:52] Pip Torok: If Sudane as EO cannot stand for office then how can Rose as EO stand for office?
[12:53] Solomon Mosely: forget sudane….
[12:53] Rose Springvale: VDI is the estate owner… and this is a moot point.. if i can be in RA, and no one challenged that
[12:53] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, what makes you think that is the case?
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: I thought ROse just pointd out that she is NOT the EO….
[12:53] Rose Springvale: how can you care now?
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: Rose does not receive the notices from LL…Sudane does.
[12:53] Rose Springvale: and i did seek a ruling before i ran
[12:53] Rose Springvale: cindy, VDI recieves the notices
[12:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the EO is the non profit which is more than one person
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: this is true
[12:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Sudane is not the EO (from a techbnical point it) either, in case you failed to notice
[12:53] Patroklus Murakami: where is this ruling rose?
[12:53] Pip Torok: Kas … in RA does the Boss chair your union?
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: ok, so it’s VDI, butu I still don’t see the conflict….
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: neither is Rose
[12:54] Rose Springvale: is there other questions? Pat, a member of only CDS, thinks members of both communities are conflicted.
[12:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: isn’t there 2 other people on the VDI ?
[12:54] Solomon Mosely: in any event, even if she *was* biased to lean towards *continuing* the agreed up merger, so has the cds, as the referendum illustrated.
[12:54] Rose Springvale: yes, stui, and CDS is supposed to appoint two more
[12:54] Solomon Mosely: if anything, you could accuse her of following the will of the people
[12:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and isn’t one of those others Dee ?
[12:54] Rose Springvale: there is no conflict cindy
[12:54] Patroklus Murakami: i think you have to perform some real mental double-think to believe that rose is not the AA estate owner
[12:54] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, I have no idea what you just said, and it’s entirely irrelevant. I believe the law forbids “the treasurer” from holding elected office, not the EO – and as pointed out, neither Sudane nor Rose is EO of record
[12:54] Arias Ahren: Raises Hand!
[12:54] Rose Springvale: thanks for your opinion pat. next?
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=182 (point 7) Read it please.
[12:55] Pip Torok: when you own or part-own VDI there _must_ be a conflict
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7). The EO will receive no compensation for the office. In addition, the EO will be prohibited from holding any elected or appointed office in the sim government, unless a waiver might be granted, on a case by case basis, by the SC. The only compensation provided will be the ceremonial title “Owner of the Sim”.
[12:55] Patroklus Murakami: “the EO will be prohibited from holding any elected or appointed office in the sim government, unless a waiver might be granted, on a case by case basis, by the SC.”
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: I agree with you rose: I see no conflict. But obviously Pat and Pip do…I’m just trying to figure this out.
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: Ah, Pip, now I see…you feel as though Rose OWNS part of VDI….
[12:55] Delia Lake: our law as written should be revisited for many reasons. it appears to be out of date regarding LL policies
[12:55] Timo Gufler: Rose, who are the board members of your non-profit organization?
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: but the fact is that one cannot “own” part of a not for profit….
[12:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: will we explore the AROSA link with the chancellor this time ?
[12:55] Arria Perreault: but this is the current law
[12:55] Patroklus Murakami: where is your ruling on this rose? is it a private word from the SC or has it been made public?
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: she’s a volunteer board member, not an employee or owner…
[12:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m just leaping ahead with my logic as others are wanting to do
[12:56] Pip Torok: but Rose _does_ have part-control over VDI
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: perhaps you’re just unfamiliar with that concept?
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: what is “control”?
[12:56] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l
[12:56] Rose Springvale: is there another question?
[12:56] Pip Torok: controlog policy
[12:56] Arias Ahren: Yes
[12:56] Rose Springvale: this has been answered
[12:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well Pip that’s rather like saying I get heard at RA last term and made all the decisions
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: Rose who collects the tier for AA?
[12:56] Patroklus Murakami: you have not answered mine rose
[12:56] Pip Torok: control of policy
[12:56] Arria Perreault: who will represent VDI in the negociation?
[12:56] Patroklus Murakami: where is your SC ruling?
[12:56] Arias Ahren: I believe that there is a person who has been nominated for the position of LRA who did not attend a single meeting of the RA during the last term.
I believe if this body if to ever be taken seriously that fact needs to be given serious consideration.
Rose: How many of last term RA meetings did you attend?
[12:57] Timo Gufler: who are the board members of the non-profit organization behind AA?
[12:57] Kaseido Quandry: More than you, chief.
[12:57] Rose Springvale: thanks for your input Arias. I attended a few, and read transcripts from them all.
[12:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Arias since when was it necessary for people to attend RA meetings to function as informed citizens ?
[12:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the Forum is supposed to plug the gaps
[12:57] Pip Torok: Rose Springvale, Micael Khandr, Delia Lake
[12:57] Patroklus Murakami: and i did seek a ruling before i ran<--- where is it? [12:57] Rose Springvale: i was not a member of the RA last term, and since the meetings were held during church hour, i chose church. [12:58] Arias Ahren: Rose: I have heard you say on a number of occasions that you “hate” four of the members or the newly elected RA. How do you propose to work with people that you say that you hate. [12:58] Rose Springvale: take your complaint to the SC pat, its really untimely now [12:58] Timo Gufler: Rose, did you see my question? [12:58] Rose Springvale: arias, i'm not aware of those conversations. [12:58] Patroklus Murakami: you have no ruling rose [12:58] Pip Torok: (Rose puts us firmly second, in our place!) [12:58] Arias Ahren: That is a lie [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think we should stick to the facts [12:59] Rose Springvale: i'm sorry timo, i didn't see your question, will you restate it [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and those that are commonly visible [12:59] Timo Gufler: who are the board members of the non-profit organization behind AA? [12:59] Patroklus Murakami: i wonder who the gang of four could be? [12:59] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, you stated that you believe the LRA should be independent- yet you were one of a minority of candidates to run as a member of a faction. How do you reconcile those things? [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: not the suppositions that are not [12:59] Rose Springvale: VDI has three current board members, myself, micael khandr and Delia lake [12:59] Pip Torok: Rose Springvale, Micael Khandr, Delia Lake [12:57] MystiTool [12:59] Timo Gufler: ok, thank you [12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have a question for AP [13:00] Rose Springvale: the merger agreement called for the CDS chancellor to serve, and for CDS to appoint two more members [13:00] Rose Springvale: CDS has not done so [13:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it had time until June 30 ) [13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Some pple here should never complaim abt personal attacks [13:00] Kaseido Quandry: Arria , did you not run on a faction platform of invalidating the merger? Is that not a clear conflict of interest? [13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head* that's like asking "you have opinions, isn't that a conflict of interest"? Kas, Arria gets elected because of opinios [13:01] Pip Torok knows Arria better than Kaseido does, it seems ... [13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *opinions even [13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP last term... I had a seconded motion at a meeting... and I had to wait for my vote... until others had discussed til their heart was content, then at other times I was forced to vote because someone had exactly the same on the table.... how can that be seen other than that I was being ignored ? [13:01] Kaseido Quandry: Arria made two statements which cannot be reconciled. [13:01] Rose Springvale: smiles at the double standards [13:02] Solomon Mosely: arria, your recent forum posts point to your exclusive interest in your monastery project. will that be the focus of your attention this term? or will it continue to fall through the cracks, like all other matters last term? [13:02] CLEOPATRA Xigalia grins [13:02] Arria Perreault: In a parliament (as we are), someone has to chair the debate. This is an advantage and a disavantage. The fact you can set the agenda is an advantage. The disavantage is that you use your energy to manage the debate instead to participate complitely to this debate. That was my experience. Even I was CSDF member, I have taken in the agenda concerns from you or from Stui. Of course, at the moment of the vote, the LRA become again a normal member. [13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I was reading some old guild transcrips, I wonder if greek iles were put onhold because of the AA merger? [13:02] Solomon Mosely: arria, what did you do as lra last term to hold the chancellor accountable for following through on her obligations as exec? [13:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Tor — we felt we had plenty of sims to worry about [13:03] Kaseido Quandry waits for the answer to that question [13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I thin k Arria, the greed isles were a project you supported [13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I asked you in your capacity as LRA also to ask the RA members of the work group for citizenship def to be asked for their consent to be recorded... and you wouldn't ask them... and I asked more than 5 times and more.... [13:03] Solomon Mosely: arria, what did you do last term to get constitional holes regarding elections tidied up? [13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: consequently I wasn't able to supply the transcripts of this to the group members [13:03] Arria Perreault: we had a Bill about finances. It's still pending and ready to be voted [13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: how could you assure this sort of thing wouldn't occur again ? [13:04] Cindy Ecksol notes that that bill was in the LAST RA....to be voted in this RA it will have to be re-introduced. [13:04] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, do you not have a consistent record of failing to promote events run by anyone outside your faction, and have you not demonstrated consistent favoritism in events promotion? [13:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: i.e I'd like to be heard and treated as an equal [13:04] Arria Perreault: I am an RA member, Cindy. I can reintroduce it [13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria characterize your interest in the monaster. [13:05] Cindy Ecksol: yes @arria...but it is NOT currently pending. last term's bills are all dead unless reintroduced and re-seconded for discussion [13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, Cindy is right. [13:06] Arria Perreault: Tor, you're right to tell about that. I got so many reproaches when I had this project of sim, because I was in the RA and in the New Guild [13:06] Delia Lake: if i may as SC Dean make a point re the NL 5-6 Estate Owner Act. This law as written is aparently not up to date on LL policies regarding nonprofit sim ownership. and also we have in the CDS and have had a Treasurer and CDS EO who are one and the same rl person so there is precedent of long standing for a waiver from this law. Hereby, Rose is granted a waiver and if Sudane does not already have one she is granted a waiver retroactively. This law is being taken up by the SC for recommended revision [13:06] Arria Perreault: so I have left these two groups to concentrate on the project [13:06] Patroklus Murakami: LOL! [13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl [13:06] Arria Perreault: when the sim was voted, I was not member of the RA [13:06] Arria Perreault: I WAS consistent [13:06] Patroklus Murakami: delia, r u holding SC meetings here too now? [13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that was fast [13:07] Patroklus Murakami: (and, as a member of VDI, should you not recuse yourself?) [13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: but yiu still have a considerable interest in the monastery. [13:07] Rose Springvale: smiles, VDI is not running for office [13:07] Patroklus Murakami: (conflict of interest? hmm?) [13:07] Pip Torok recognises the SC ruling but notes the total conflict of interest for an LRA [13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (well, Pat, actually, nothing really forbids SC members to be EOs ) [13:07] Solomon Mosely: arria, what assurances do we have that you don't really just represent your party, and will give equal attention to the issues raised bu others in ra? [13:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *thinks AROSA* [13:07] Arias Ahren: The developer of VDI is [13:07] Arria Perreault: and Kas, I have a lot to say about communication. The only hing I want to tell you is that you mixt constlantly public information and event promotion. I don't [13:08] Arias Ahren: Is running for office [13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: IN SL many of us here have other sims we are involved in [13:08] Arria Perreault: because I did during the last term. I have taken concernns from other sides [13:08] Patroklus Murakami: and, when the sims have all been handed over to VDI? there will be no conflict of interest! [13:08] Kaseido Quandry: Was not Feria a public event? Did you not fail to promote it? Was not the pirate party a private event? Did you not promote that extensively? [13:08] Solomon Mosely: really? like what? [13:08] Timo Gufler: good point, Pat [13:08] Rose Springvale: VDI doesn't have any interest in others sims [13:09] Kaseido Quandry: did you not fail to promote the public event of the photography contest? [13:09] Arria Perreault: Pirate event was a project of the regional committe of CN-LA [13:09] Solomon Mosely: "when all sims are handed over to vdi"? [13:09] Pip Torok: Rose, how do we know you won't try to take the CDS sims for VDI? [13:09] Solomon Mosely: what does that even mean? [13:09] Rose Springvale: LOL [13:09] Arria Perreault: Fera was a project of the regional committe of AA [13:09] Patroklus Murakami: of course not rose. but your friends will 'suggest' the CDS is turned over and you'll agree [13:09] Rose Springvale: pip, that is a very naive statement [13:09] Rose Springvale: no Feria was a CDS event [13:09] Rose Springvale: like oktoberfest [13:09] Pip Torok notes that LOL is no answer ... [13:09] Solomon Mosely: yea, thats completely impossible [13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note that it's not the job of the *LRA* to promote and announce events That's why we have an *Executive* [13:09] Patroklus Murakami: and all the ppl making decisions will be... in VDI! [13:09] Arria Perreault: no, Rose, I find this is an interesting question [13:10] Solomon Mosely: ohhh... and the executive who was supposed to appoint a pio [13:10] Rose Springvale: to transfer sims from one owner to another requires action from both [13:10] Kaseido Quandry: Gwyn, thank you - I'll be quoting you on that when we vote on the Executive! [13:10] Solomon Mosely: and a land management team? [13:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Kas please do [13:10] fig whispers: Noticed hippoRENT [13:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *notes that Pip would always want no other answer than the one he wants to hear* [13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: VDI is a neutral holding company [13:10] Rose Springvale: VDI can't "take over" anything [13:10] Arria Perreault: the exec organizes her/his office [13:10] Pip Torok: On the contrary, Rose ... it goes to the heart of the matter [13:10] Rose Springvale: please explain Pip [13:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: sometimes life just isn't that fair Pippy [13:10] fig whispers: Noticed mathiew [13:10] Arria Perreault: Sonja has sold out the land: 2 parcels are for sale now [13:11] Solomon Mosely: pat, you're misinformation is disgusting and disruptive [13:11] Solomon Mosely: no pip, that isnt even an issue [13:11] Pip Torok: Sonja has plots in NFS [13:11] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:11] Kaseido Quandry: Interesting, as Sonja was utterly uninolved in *my* two purchases of land [13:11] Arria Perreault: and there is 2 new channels of information [13:11] Patroklus Murakami: mark my words. we will look back at this in six months and it will be too late by then [13:11] Solomon Mosely: you're creating it to create fear of some phantom takover, which isnt even possible [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that this big focus is frankly insulting of Micael and Dee's integrity [13:11] Pip Torok: its very much an issue Sol [13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: sonja didn'd sell the land, pple just bought it [13:11] Solomon Mosely: go back to your "rovian" playbook and try again [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I know both Micael and Dee [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and they are capable of being heard [13:11] Arria Perreault: this is the goal, Tor [13:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and of making their points [13:11] Arria Perreault: to see the land sold [13:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and not being influenced [13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonjay never marketed anything [13:12] Arria Perreault: she just put parcels for sales that were blocked for a long time [13:12] Kaseido Quandry: well, not anything in the CDS, at least :p [13:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right. So let me ask a question to BOTH candidates. Will you support legislation that regulates the way the VDI will respect the CDS' decisions, and, if so, how will those be enforced? [13:12] Rose Springvale: blocked? [13:12] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Is not Rose more controversial than Arria. LRA ought to be as little controversial as possible [13:12] Arria Perreault: not for sale in-world = block [13:12] Arria Perreault: visibly it is the best method as all is sold out [13:12] Pip Torok cheers Gwyn [13:13] Rose Springvale: not true Arria. all the was owned by the CDS was placed for sale before she took office [13:13] Solomon Mosely: none of you dpu/csdf people have read the merger, have you? [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Muh - not in my view [13:13] Arria Perreault: why do you claim about that [13:13] Rose Springvale: and not the law from the last term [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: in my view AP didn't listen to me [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and ignored me [13:13] Rose Springvale: the query re agreements [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: but didn't do the same with others in the room [13:13] Solomon Mosely: VDI, is CONTROLLED by the CDS exec! it can't do anything without cds! [13:13] fig whispers: Noticed Lilith [13:13] Arria Perreault: during the 11th term, people claimed we had so many unsold land and now thy claim because it's sold out [13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: therefore that's more my concern [13:13] Rose Springvale: Gwyn, CDS agreed to take the AA sims and preserve the non profit status [13:13] Patroklus Murakami: sol, i think we need some guarantees on that [13:13] Pip Torok: All right. So let me ask a question to BOTH candidates. Will you support legislation that regulates the way the VDI will respect the CDS' decisions, and, if so, how will those be enforced? [13:14] Rose Springvale: CDS doesn't have to have anything to do with VDI, so long as it has an organiztion that meets the requirements for LL [13:14] Arria Perreault: who will represent VDI in the negociation? [13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: bloody hell we have an echo [13:14] Solomon Mosely: read the freaking docs pat [13:14] Solomon Mosely: arent you supposed to be a lawyer? [13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or Gwyn is throwing her voice [13:14] Rose Springvale: if they don't wish to make their own, then an operating agreement is an option [13:14] Rose Springvale: but [13:14] Arria Perreault: a contract need negociators [13:14] Solomon Mosely: see, i know you're not really this stupid pat [13:14] Solomon Mosely: i know you must have read them [13:14] Patroklus Murakami: i've read em (no, i employ lawyers but i'm not one:-)) [13:14] Solomon Mosely: and this is just more of the same fear-mongering you tried last term [13:14] muhammedyussif Wikinger: please end discussion and start voting [13:14] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ORDER ! [13:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ORDER !! [13:15] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *wacks his toy gavel down on the desk [13:15] Kaseido Quandry: I agree with muhammad - this is futile [13:15] Pip Torok: then Sol, i'd hate to be you when you found out how things are .... [13:15] Arria Perreault: Rose, I have a serious question for you [13:15] Kaseido Quandry: we know how we're voting, let's get to it [13:15] Rose Springvale: 5. A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the benefit of the CDS government. [13:15] Solomon Mosely: you'd be lucky [13:15] Solomon Mosely: fig come [13:15] Solomon Mosely: fig good [13:15] Solomon Mosely: fig sit [13:15] Rose Springvale: not sure how much clearer that can be gwyn [13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's too minimalistic [13:16] Rose Springvale: but it is clear [13:16] Patroklus Murakami: so why did you do nothing about this in the 11th RA Rose? [13:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we have a member of the SC on the VDI [13:16] Rose Springvale: nothing? [13:16] Patroklus Murakami: and why did no one come with a proposal during the 12th? [13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For instance, "managing for the benefit of the CDS government" might mean "sell everything in the CDS to Caledon for L$1" because it might be "for the benefit" of the CDS government doing so [13:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think she'd be capable of making the point to the SC if anything was untoward ? [13:17] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: n'est pas ? [13:17] Cindy Ecksol: well, gwyn, seems that if it's too minimalistic, RA can be more specific...but it sure does seem pretty specific to me regarding who "controls" VDI.... [13:17] Pip Torok notes article 5. particularly the conflict of interest with it for any LRA [13:17] Cindy Ecksol: and it's definitely not Rose...unless we elect her Chancellor. [13:17] Rose Springvale: that would require a vote of the RA wouldn't it gwyn [13:17] Solomon Mosely: wre any of you residents of cds when the merger was drafted? [13:17] Arria Perreault: Cindy, the law must consider every potential case [13:17] Patroklus Murakami: why not elect her empress and have done with it? [13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I can only hope so, Rose [13:17] Solomon Mosely: and proposed to ra? [13:17] Arria Perreault: not considering people [13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. I guess I'm used to 1000-page contracts with US companies A one-paragraph-agreement just scares me, sorry [13:17] Delia Lake: yes, i was and am a cds resident [13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It's irrational, I know. [13:17] Cindy Ecksol: Arria, as we well know in real life, the law CANNOT consider every case. [13:18] Rose Springvale: you need better lawyers [13:18] Solomon Mosely: not you delia [13:18] Cindy Ecksol: that is why we have Supreme Courts and SC's to make rulings [13:18] Delia Lake: i have been a cds resident for 3.5 yrs [13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: perhaps, Rose I won't question that [13:18] Rose Springvale: as have i [13:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Why not let patty be a drama queen and we'll all bow on our knees to his oscar winning perfomance as the creator of the best overstatement of this term ? [13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft [13:18] Rose Springvale: can we please stop name calling? [13:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: a queen would be much better than a princess [13:18] Rose Springvale: we are adults. use your words! [13:18] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: empress even [13:19] Solomon Mosely: my point was, why the sudden questions? this has been planned for years now [13:19] Cindy Ecksol loves the subtle digs... [13:19] Rose Springvale: delia, i dont' have the rest of the day for this, can we call for vote? [13:19] Delia Lake: i was just thinking about that.... let's all take a couple of minutes of silence [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: I move to close discussion. can I have a second? [13:19] Kaseido Quandry: second [13:19] Patroklus Murakami: i just wonder why the supporters of merger did *nothing* about the non-profit last term... just sayin; [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: whew! [13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: second [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of closing discussion? [13:19] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:19] Cindy Ecksol: (say aye) [13:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye [13:20] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:20] Rose Springvale: aye [13:20] Lilith Ivory: aye [13:20] Delia Lake: and review what each of the candidates for LRA said about their view of the job [13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: aye [13:20] Cindy Ecksol: aye [13:20] Timo Gufler: aye [13:20] Cindy Ecksol: I believe we have eight votes to close discussion [13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: that was my first vote [13:20] Tor Karlsvalt: yuo go fig [13:20] Patroklus Murakami: aye to closing discussion [13:20] Solomon Mosely: but we still vote here today, right? [13:20] Cindy Ecksol: I move to vote on the RA selection. Second? [13:21] Pip Torok: aye [13:21] Arias Ahren: May I make one more statement? [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: sorry..LRA selection [13:21] Arria Perreault: aye [13:21] Patroklus Murakami: um cindy. not so fast [13:21] Rose Springvale: no discussion closed [13:21] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:21] Solomon Mosely: aye [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: um...Pat, discussion is closed. [13:21] Timo Gufler: aye [13:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Trust Tor to lose his voting virginity in something nothing to do with me... I feel like he cheated on me *LOL* [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: and we have a second for moving to a vote [13:21] Patroklus Murakami: so, this is the new regime [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: coting now... [13:21] Cindy Ecksol: voting now.... [13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: [13:21] Arria Perreault: aye [13:21] Patroklus Murakami: aye, get on with it [13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hail. I mean, aye [13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: aye [13:22] Lilith Ivory: aye for voting now [13:22] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE AYE AYE !!! *bangs his toy gavel* [13:22] Solomon Mosely: aye [13:22] Cindy Ecksol: aye [13:22] Cindy Ecksol: ok, one vote each.... [13:22] Patroklus Murakami thought delia was chairing the meeting.... [13:22] Solomon Mosely: you had your train wreck last term, its over [13:22] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of Arria say aye please? [13:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye [13:22] Pip Torok: aye [13:22] Patroklus Murakami: aye [13:22] Timo Gufler: aye! [13:22] Arria Perreault: aye [13:23] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of rose say aye please? [13:23] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:23] Lilith Ivory: aye [13:23] Solomon Mosely: aye for rose [13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AYE !!! [13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: aye for Rose [13:23] Cindy Ecksol: aye for rose [13:23] Rose Springvale: aye [13:23] Solomon Mosely: fig, you're not ra, hush [13:23] Kaseido Quandry: [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe [13:24] Arria Perreault: 6 to 7, I bet it will be the result for all votes during this term ... [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: probably not [13:24] Rose Springvale: i hope not Arria [13:24] Cindy Ecksol: not everyone has voted.... [13:24] Solomon Mosely: welcome to politics [13:24] Cindy Ecksol: rose? [13:24] Delia Lake: 6 for Arria, 7 for Rose [13:24] Kaseido Quandry: rose voted [13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Rose voted [13:24] Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok, I missed it. [13:24] Delia Lake: yes everyone voted [13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: lilith? [13:24] Lilith Ivory: I voted for Rose [13:24] Lilith Ivory: go figure [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww [13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [13:24] Rose Springvale: thank you all for your support. I look forward to working with all of you [13:25] Cindy Ecksol: congratulations madame LRA.... [13:25] Kaseido Quandry cheers [13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: congrats, Rose [13:25] Arria Perreault: all? [13:25] Delia Lake: Congratulations, Rose [13:25] Rose Springvale: yes arria, all. [13:25] mathiew Glenwalker: congrats rose [13:25] Lilith Ivory: congratulations Rose [13:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yay [13:25] Rose Springvale: thanks [13:25] Rose Springvale: i have a notecard [13:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: congratulations!! [13:25] Arria Perreault: did you see my first list of proposals in the forum? [13:25] Rose Springvale: of the issues that we need to deal with this term [13:25] Patroklus Murakami: congratulations rose [13:25] Rose Springvale: and proposed timelines [13:25] Rose Springvale: i''ll send a copy to each member of the RA [13:25] Arria Perreault: congratulations, of course. I am fair [13:26] Rose Springvale: and ask you to add to or comment, and let me know what areays you want to work on [13:26] Rose Springvale: hang on, if you will [13:26] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2894 [13:27] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rosy I kept it warm [13:27] Cindy Ecksol: nice job, stui! [13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: all my leaping up and down [13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and I patted the cushion [13:28] Rose Springvale: i'll send a notice around on the first meeting, at which point we will elect a chancellor, and discuss the plan for the term [13:28] Timo Gufler accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Patroklus Murakami accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Cindy Ecksol accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Tor Karlsvalt accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] muhammedyussif Wikinger accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Pip Torok accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Kaseido Quandry accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Rose Springvale: if you've not posted your availabitliy on the forums, please do so, or send me a note or im [13:28] Solomon Mosely accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] Lilith Ivory accepted your inventory offer. [13:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: whoa it's like war and peace [13:29] Rose Springvale: thank you Delia and the SC for faciliitating the new term [13:29] Rose Springvale: yes, stui, there is a lot to do [13:29] Rose Springvale: hopefully we won't hav etime to bicker [13:29] fig whispers: Noticed CDS_NewPraetorium_l [13:29] StuiChicanne Darkstone: damn I'll miss that *looks up at the ceiling* [13:30] Rose Springvale: hehe [13:30] Rose Springvale: if there is nothing further, lets adjourn [13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [13:30] Rose Springvale: all in favor? [13:30] Kaseido Quandry: aye [13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye [13:30] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye [13:30] Lilith Ivory: aye [13:30] Solomon Mosely: aye [13:30] Tor Karlsvalt: aye [13:30] Timo Gufler: aye [13:30] Lilith Ivory: when do we have a party? [13:30] Arria Perreault: aye [13:31] Patroklus Murakami: aye [13:31] Cindy Ecksol: aye [13:31] Arria Perreault: I think Sonja has started to organizing it [13:31] Lilith Ivory: ah great [13:31] Solomon Mosely: lol [13:31] Solomon Mosely: should we ask the pio from last term [13:31] Kaseido Quandry snickers [13:31] Rose Springvale: we are adjourned, ending record

Permalink.

RA Meeting 17 June 2010

Transcript from the RA meeting, June 17, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:46 pm
[11:59] Rose Springvale: we don’t quite have a quorum of RA yet, but we can go ahead with citizens concerns… so i’ll call us to order
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: I´ve stored all my fav clothes on boxes
[12:00] Kaseido Quandry: wow, new and new-ish faces! yay!
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: to have them if the Lindens loose the original ones
[12:00] Rose Springvale: Welcome to the CDS Representative Assembly meeting, thank you all for being here
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: Hi Kas
[12:00] Kaseido Quandry: hi Lil!
[12:00] Rose Springvale: As you see from the sign, all our meetings are transcripted and published, so if you speak, we presume you have consented to that
[12:01] Arias Ahren: Hellow all.
[12:01] Rose Springvale: You’ll find an agenda for today’s meeting in the Owl box on the table in front of me, but this part of the meeting is open for our citizens to express concerns, announcements, and give us food for thought
[12:01] Timo Gufler: hello Arias
[12:01] Fern Leissa: Hello Arias
[12:01] Callipygian Christensen: Hi Arias
[12:01] Rose Springvale: Hello Arias, Bagheera
[12:01] Rose Springvale: So we are open to the citizens now
[12:01] Bagheera Kristan: Hello
[12:01] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arias
[12:02] Tor Karlsvalt: hi all
[12:02] Arias Ahren: Good day to everyone
[12:02] Kaseido Quandry: hey Tor!
[12:02] Rose Springvale: Hi Tor
[12:02] Fern Leissa: Rose is this the spot for citizens to ask for clarification
[12:02] Rosie Gray raises a hand
[12:02] Rose Springvale: yes ma’am
[12:02] Rose Springvale: Fern first then Rosie
[12:02] Fern Leissa: Ok. Sorry. rises hand
[12:02] Rose Springvale: you have the floor Fern
[12:03] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:03] Fern Leissa: Can you clarify the status of the merger agreement? I have heard so much confusing and contradictory inf about it?
[12:03] Fern Leissa: Just briefly outline I guess
[12:03] Rose Springvale: does someone on the RA want to take that? or shall i?
[12:03] Rose Springvale: okay :0
[12:04] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[12:04] Rose Springvale: there is a merger agreement in effect fern, and i’ll pass that to you in a moment
[12:04] Pip Torok: ??? merger agreement?
[12:04] Rose Springvale: The parties each have the opportunity to “opt out” of the agreement, for one week, commencing july 22
[12:04] Pip Torok: ah
[12:04] Arria Perreault: yes, Pip, the first on
[12:04] Rose Springvale: so this Body will vote, and 2/3 of the group will confirm the agreement
[12:05] Rose Springvale: and the Al Andalus Population will also advise their estate owner
[12:05] Rose Springvale: by July 29, we will know what happens
[12:05] Rose Springvale: in the meantime, the agreement is in effect
[12:05] Arria Perreault: we need 2/3 to confirm the agreement?
[12:05] Rose Springvale: no
[12:05] Tor Karlsvalt: no RRIA
[12:05] Rose Springvale: you need 2/3 to undo it
[12:05] Arria Perreault: pity
[12:05] Rose Springvale: i’ll put the agreement in the notecard giver, so you all can take at your leisure
[12:05] Rose Springvale: you can click the owl box and get a copy now
[12:06] Rose Springvale: Rosie?
[12:06] Rosie Gray: thank you Rose
[12:06] Fern Leissa: Thank you
[12:06] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[12:06] Rosie Gray: I was wondering, as a new citizen and merchant in NFS
[12:06] Timo Gufler: my opinion is that, that AA citizens of the RA should abstain from the voting
[12:06] Rose Springvale: please let Rosie speak
[12:06] Arria Perreault: yes, I agreewith Timo
[12:06] Rosie Gray: is there a policy around announcements for things like new shops opening?
[12:06] Rose Springvale: you are both out of order. please
[12:07] Rosie Gray: and who can make announcements through the group?
[12:07] Rose Springvale: ah good question Rosie
[12:07] Arria Perreault: weare citizen too
[12:07] Kaseido Quandry: great question!
[12:07] Rosie Gray: that’s it
[12:07] Rose Springvale: The Chancellor is in charge of publicity, so you could give a note to her to make announcements, announce on the forums, and i presume, you could announce on the social media as well
[12:07] Rosie Gray: okay thank you
[12:08] Rose Springvale: also, we have people who have volunteered to be run a commerce commission …we’ll talk about that later, and they can help too
[12:08] Rosie Gray nods
[12:08] Rose Springvale: Calli?
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Rosie, you might want to look at that polic of cental landing point in NFS
[12:08] Rosie Gray: indeed that is another topic I’d like to raise Tor
[12:09] Rose Springvale: that’s a good topic too
[12:09] Rosie Gray: do I still have the floor?
[12:09] Rose Springvale: sure
[12:09] Rosie Gray: okay
[12:09] Rosie Gray:
[12:09] Rose Springvale: calli next
[12:09] Rosie Gray: well as a new person here
[12:09] Rosie Gray: I am finding it difficult to find things
[12:09] Rosie Gray: even where I am supposed to pay my tier
[12:09] Rose Springvale: did you get a notecard on that Rosie?
[12:10] Rosie Gray: so I can understand that it may be hard to attract any customers to a shop that is not right on the main plaza
[12:10] Rosie Gray accepted your inventory offer.
[12:10] Rose Springvale: yes, it’s a continuing problem
[12:10] Rosie Gray: is that question being addressed by a committee?
[12:11] Rose Springvale: RA members? have anything to say to Rosie on that? We can certainly assign it to a committee, but i believe that is chancellor venue as well
[12:11] Arria Perreault: we can create a committee for each issue
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: Rosie I have shopes in the CDS since 2007
[12:11] Arria Perreault: it’s a great idea
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: if you have any questions you can ask me any time
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: just send me an IM ans I´ll try to help you
[12:12] Rosie Gray: thanks Lilith
[12:12] Rose Springvale: Okay, i’ll assign that to the covenant review commission… and maybe commerce can make a recommendation as well
[12:12] Cindy Ecksol nods
[12:12] Rosie Gray: great thank you Rose
[12:12] Rose Springvale: or “we” will assign it
[12:12] Rose Springvale: anything else Rosie?
[12:12] Arria Perreault: This commission doesn’t yet exist, Rose
[12:12] Rosie Gray: no that’s all from me
[12:12] Rose Springvale: thanks Arria, its on the agenda today
[12:13] Arria Perreault: the RA should it first and discuss about its mission
[12:13] Lilith Ivory: but sounds like a good idea to have one
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:13] Arria Perreault: yes, we love committee
[12:13] Rose Springvale: we are here listening to our citizens, i am sure the RA will find a way to respond
[12:13] Rose Springvale: Calli??
[12:13] Arria Perreault: why not a committee about commiittes
[12:13] Callipygian Christensen: As food for thought for everyone, since many people never fllow the Lindex and exchange rates, the value of lindens has dropped dramatically in the last few days and is going through major fluctuations. This affects tier cost, and value of lindens held in world. It is a good time to be aware of the Lindex and what is happening to the linden.
[12:13] Callipygian Christensen: thank you
[12:13] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Delia
[12:14] Callipygian Christensen: that’s all
[12:14] Kaseido Quandry: excellent, Calli – I was going to raise that on the forums
[12:14] Arria Perreault: whyt is the current rate?
[12:14] Arria Perreault: what*
[12:14] Rose Springvale: exchanges are one of those things that elude me… can you put that in understandable language for me Calli
[12:14] Callipygian Christensen: last trade was at 275
[12:14] Cindy Ecksol: wow!
[12:14] Callipygian Christensen: until 2 weks ago on average it was 260
[12:14] Cindy Ecksol: was 267 yesterday
[12:15] Callipygian Christensen: it hit 300 at one point yesterday
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: this is a good explanation: http://blog.pradprathivi.com/2010/06/17 … en-dollar/
[12:15] Callipygian Christensen: anyway..something to be asare of
[12:15] Rose Springvale: but does it mean our tier costs us more or less?
[12:15] Pip Torok: so the RL dollar tier will be lower?
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: there was an official “don’t worry be happy” announcement from LL too
[12:15] Rose Springvale: and how does it affect our reserves?
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: means our tier is highter in Lindens
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: it devalues Linden dollar reserves
[12:15] Cindy Ecksol: and if our reserves are in Lindens, we’ve just lost a bundel
[12:15] Rose Springvale: ah
[12:15] Lilith Ivory: I got a mail from M. Linden a few days ago
[12:16] Pip Torok: i see
[12:16] Callipygian Christensen: it may well level out and go back to ‘normal’..but still something to keep in awareness
[12:16] Kaseido Quandry: this should seriously concern all of us, particularly our fiscal conservatives
[12:16] Rose Springvale: thanks Calli. I hope our finance commission can look at that in depth
[12:17] Arria Perreault: the best advice: don’t panic
[12:17] Pip Torok: any possibility to keep US $ reserves instead of Lindens?
[12:17] Kaseido Quandry: we should look seriously at that, I think, Pip
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: noted
[12:17] Cindy Ecksol: too late…
[12:17] Cindy Ecksol: horse is out of the barn
[12:17] Rose Springvale: i think its a simple conversion in the avatar account
[12:17] Bagheera Kristan: Ihave acitizen concern, if there is time, or it can wait until next meeting
[12:17] Rose Springvale: lindens to usd
[12:17] Arria Perreault: I see what you are trying to do ….
[12:18] Rose Springvale: lets see if we want to extend
[12:18] Callipygian Christensen: Yes, you cnan do that and perhaps the treasurer does, but now is not a great time to make the switch if not
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: It is an argument of real life acct in UDD
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: USD
[12:18] Rose Springvale: is there a motion from RA to extend time?
[12:18] Kaseido Quandry: so moved
[12:18] Rose Springvale: for five minutes?
[12:18] Pip Torok: for this occasion cindy but what about a further devaluation?
[12:18] Arria Perreault: is the US dollar the best choice?
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: second
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: the euro isn’t today
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: (to extend 5 minutes)
[12:19] Arria Perreault: there are others
[12:19] Rose Springvale: thanks All in favor of extending time 5 minutes for citzens concerns. say aye
[12:19] Pip Torok: imho the best athis moment Arria
[12:19] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[12:19] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:19] Pip Torok: aye
[12:19] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:19] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:19] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[12:19] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:19] Rose Springvale: okay, we’ll go on for 5 more minutes
[12:20] Rose Springvale: lets defer the currency issue to finance and the treasurer.
[12:20] Rose Springvale: Bagheera?
[12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:20] Bagheera Kristan: About a week ago, there was a fellow citizen building on my land at 1000m, I went to speak with him but he went “Away” so I ejected him and his objects – but I felt badly because I think he may have been there temporarily to pray. I wonder if a rez time can be extended to CDS community property, allowing citizens to rez for about 10-15 minutes (or whatever we think is best)?
[12:20] Rose Springvale: that would mean turning on auto return Bagheera, and we have a problem with that with the number of builders in CDS
[12:20] Bagheera Kristan: okay? I didn’t know
[12:21] Lilith Ivory: if we do that all prins not set to group will get send back
[12:21] Pip Torok: Bags, you were right to eject him if you were owner and he was taken your prim-allowance …
[12:21] Kaseido Quandry: you can set a longer timer for *your* property tho
[12:21] Rose Springvale: all objects not owned by the land owner would be returned. yes
[12:21] Bagheera Kristan: okay, thank you
[12:21] Pip Torok: (taken=taking)
[12:21] Rose Springvale: and there are public places people can use, just refer him to one of the exec team, they will find a place
[12:22] Bagheera Kristan: noted, thank you
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: Kas, if you oset any time other than “0” then ALL prims not set properly to group will return.
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: yep, that’d be a nice chance to engage with people who want to do things here
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: as rose says, that’s a problem…
[12:22] Rose Springvale: but there are public prims and public land, so just need to redirect folks
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: Cindy, very true – I’ve done that – *cough* once *cough*
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: best thing is to periodically “sweep” your property and see if there are any prims you don’t want there.
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[12:22] Cindy Ecksol: yeah, we’ve all done that ….once
[12:22] Rose Springvale: anyone else?
[12:23] Rosie Gray raises hand
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: hehe yes
[12:23] Rose Springvale: yes Rosie?
[12:23] Rosie Gray: sorry just wondering if it’s written down anywhere where these public rez places are
[12:23] Rosie Gray: I didn’t know there were any
[12:24] Rose Springvale: there isn’t a sand box per se, but all land owned by rudeen edo is public land. Just check with the chancellor
[12:24] Rosie Gray: okay
[12:24] Rose Springvale: or the guild too, they have some land
[12:24] Rosie Gray: so it’s not exactly publicized
[12:24] Rose Springvale: lets move to the agenda now
[12:24] Rose Springvale: some folks need to leave at 1, so we can take more questions later
[12:24] Rosie Gray: yes sorry
[12:24] Rose Springvale: Any additions or corrections to the Agenda?
[12:25] Rose Springvale: seeing none, we’ll proceed as printed
[12:25] Rose Springvale: For informational purposes, the online indicators have been updated as well as the AA group titles
[12:25] Rose Springvale: CDS groups still need update i see
[12:26] Rose Springvale: we’ll get those fixed asap
[12:26] Rose Springvale: any other administrative details from the RA?
[12:26] Rose Springvale: Then lets move to old business
[12:26] Arria Perreault: there are 7day votes
[12:27] Rose Springvale: yes, there were and they were posted with the summaries.
[12:27] Arria Perreault: for this meeting I mean
[12:27] Rose Springvale: the only vote affected by 7 day votes was that of the Chancellor. The vote total was 6-6-1
[12:28] Rose Springvale: yes, there are for this meeting, thanks. their votes will be recorded. I’ll ask if you have requested 7 day that you register your vote on the RA discussion thread, instead of general discussion please.
[12:29] Rose Springvale: As it stands we are deadlocked on the chancellor vote
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: We did not elect a chancellor
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I motion we have a revote
[12:29] Timo Gufler: we have a chancellor
[12:29] Rose Springvale: there is a motion to revote on the chancellor election. is there a second/
[12:29] Pip Torok: /mw supports Timo
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: The constitution requires that we elect a chancellor not hold one over
[12:29] Cindy Ecksol: second
[12:30] Rose Springvale: thank you, Discussion?
[12:30] Arria Perreault: were both candidates informed that we will vote about this point today?
[12:30] Timo Gufler: but we tried to vote for a new one but that failed
[12:30] Rose Springvale: it is on the agenda
[12:30] Arria Perreault: a 7 day vote was expected
[12:30] Cindy Ecksol: I saw it on the agenda
[12:30] Cindy Ecksol notes that 7 day vote was a tie
[12:30] Rose Springvale: 7 day votes will be honored arria, no issue
[12:30] Arria Perreault: maybe someone doesnt read every day
[12:30] Rose Springvale: discussion on the motion?
[12:31] Kaseido Quandry: maybe reading the agenda is someone’s job?
[12:31] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:31] Rose Springvale: not the point. 7 day votes will all be honored
[12:31] Arria Perreault: a mail would have been polite
[12:31] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:32] Kaseido Quandry: Rose, please send us engraved invitations each week asking us to be minimally compentent? It’s *soooo* easy to forget…..
[12:32] Rose Springvale: the agenda was included in the group notice, all people have the option of receiving those in email
[12:32] Rose Springvale: now now
[12:32] Rose Springvale: any other discussion on the motion?
[12:32] Rose Springvale: shall we move to vote then?
[12:33] Rose Springvale: All in favor of Sonja Strom as chancellor say aye please
[12:33] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[12:33] Pip Torok: aye
[12:33] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:33] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:34] Rose Springvale: thank you. All in favor of Cindy Ecksol as chancellor, say aye please
[12:34] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[12:34] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:35] Kaseido Quandry: .
[12:36] Rose Springvale: abstentions?
[12:36] Rose Springvale: smiels
[12:36] Rose Springvale: chair votes for cindy, and seeing as she’s crashed, she’ll have 7 day as well
[12:36] Rose Springvale: lets move on then, and see if 7 day votes break the deadlock
[12:36] Rose Springvale: Term priorities
[12:37] Arria Perreault: I have a remark about a commission which was created during the last meeting
[12:37] Timo Gufler: does this mean, we vote as many times until we don’t result a tie?
[12:37] Rose Springvale: Back to the agenda list, we’ve been requested by the SC to make sure all the loose ends in the election process are tied up well in advance of the elections
[12:37] Rose Springvale: you may remark abotu old business later arria, and timo, its a democracy, if people want to keep making motions, we’ll keep voting
[12:38] Arria Perreault: it was a remark
[12:38] Rose Springvale: Gwyneth has agreed to chair such a commission. Does anyone wish to move that it be created?
[12:38] Kaseido Quandry: so moveed
[12:38] Kaseido Quandry: *moved
[12:38] Rose Springvale: kas, can you give me language please
[12:39] Kaseido Quandry moves to create an elections commission to clarify procedures, to be chaired by Gwyneth Llewellyn
[12:39] Rose Springvale: thank you. Second?
[12:39] Arria Perreault: what is the mission of the commission?
[12:39] Lilith Ivory: I second
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[12:39] Rose Springvale: clarify election procedures
[12:39] Rose Springvale: discussion
[12:40] Arria Perreault: I have also send a request to the SC
[12:40] Arria Perreault: but I did not get any news
[12:40] Rose Springvale: does that have relevance to this motion Arria?
[12:40] Arria Perreault: it’s a related to this question
[12:40] Rose Springvale: okay
[12:40] Rose Springvale: do you want to share your concern?
[12:40] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:40] Rose Springvale: you have the floor
[12:41] Arria Perreault: during the last term, we have voted a constitutionnal amendment and a bill about campaigning. The constitutional amendment did not pass, but the bill did
[12:42] Arria Perreault: I have asked the SC to see if the bill is valid or not
[12:42] Kaseido Quandry: hey Stui
[12:42] Lilith Ivory: hi Stui
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evenin Kas
[12:42] Rose Springvale: m understnading is that unless flagged, the bill is valid after 14 days, but i’m sure the SC will advice you of that
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Evening Lil !
[12:42] Tor Karlsvalt: hi stui
[12:42] Rose Springvale: hi Stui
[12:42] Arria Perreault: I think that the SC should solve this issue too
[12:42] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Thankyou Tor !
[12:42] Arria Perreault: done
[12:43] Delia Lake raises her hand
[12:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Hi Rosy !
[12:43] Rose Springvale: thanks. Delia?
[12:43] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha Tor is grey an naked
[12:43] Tor Karlsvalt: oh boy
[12:43] Kaseido Quandry grins
[12:43] Lilith Ivory: don´t tell him but I see him Ruthed
[12:43] Delia Lake: Arria did make a request to the SC re the bill that passed. we are discussing it and will have a ruling very soon
[12:44] Rose Springvale: thank you Delia.
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: geech
[12:44] Delia Lake: however, there are still many implementation issues that are not specified in actually running an election
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:44] Arria Perreault: Delia, don’t you discuss this point in a public meeting?
[12:44] Rose Springvale: any other discussion on creation of the Electoral commission?
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: Stui
[12:44] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s good to share
[12:44] Delia Lake: it will be posted on the SC Discussion on the Forum
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: we have a long bench
[12:45] Rose Springvale: shall we call the question then?
[12:45] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[12:45] Rose Springvale: here is the motion: create an elections commission to clarify procedures, to be chaired by Gwyneth Llewellyn
[12:46] Rose Springvale: all in favor please say aye
[12:46] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:46] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[12:46] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[12:46] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:46] Pip Torok: aye
[12:46] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:46] Rose Springvale: opposed?
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: sorry was in IM
[12:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oops I missed my chance
[12:47] Rose Springvale: you can vote, aye or nay
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: I vote aye for the comission
[12:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll say Aye to GL
[12:47] Rose Springvale: thank you, Motion carries
[12:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we can’t have GL bored
[12:47] StuiChicanne Darkstone: keep her busy
[12:47] Kaseido Quandry smiles
[12:48] Rose Springvale: I’d like to remind everyoe that creating these commissions is only the administrative step. WE need participation at the committee level to make them work
[12:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll try
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: yes!
[12:48] Kaseido Quandry is psyched to join the working groups
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt: we lost Mu
[12:48] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I can’t promise
[12:48] Arria Perreault: at the end of the meeting, we will have 7 committees
[12:48] Rose Springvale: it would be very helpful if we could get them all calendared too
[12:48] Rose Springvale: yes but that is how work gets done
[12:48] Kaseido Quandry: omg yes please
[12:49] Arria Perreault: we are 13
[12:49] Rose Springvale: perhaps you can take that on Arria
[12:49] Rose Springvale: making sure the committee meetings make our calendar
[12:49] Arria Perreault: I did not get any offer
[12:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: it’s todays special offer
[12:49] Rose Springvale: hm. thought i just asked. but okay
[12:49] Rose Springvale: lets move on, we’ll get the chancellor the information, she can deal with it i’m sure
[12:49] StuiChicanne Darkstone: who is the chancellor ?
[12:50] Rose Springvale: We have had several commerce groups over the years. some have been active and successful
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonja is until we finally have a winner of the election.
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Mu
[12:50] Rose Springvale: others have come up with plans that have not proceeded
[12:50] muhammedyussif Wikinger: thanks crashed
[12:51] Rose Springvale: we’ve got two RA res who would like to try again with a commerce commission
[12:51] Arria Perreault: France : Mexico 0:1
[12:51] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m very commercial
[12:51] Timo Gufler: hehe, Arria
[12:51] Rose Springvale: The mission of the commerce commission would be to address issues of businesses in our sims, and work together to create a better environment for commerce in CDS
[12:51] Rose Springvale: Stui and Lilith have volunteered to lead the commission
[12:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m just the pretty face
[12:52] Rose Springvale: and bring us whatever legislation they thing would serve the interests of this part of our population
[12:52] Rose Springvale: is there a motion to create it?
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt:
[12:52] Lilith Ivory: lol Stui a pretty face with a smart brain
[12:52] Arria Perreault: I have a question
[12:52] Rose Springvale: lets get a motion first arria
[12:52] Rose Springvale: then discussion
[12:52] Kaseido Quandry: I move to to address issues of businesses in our sims, and work together to create a better environment for commerce in CDS, with Stui and Lilith as chairs
[12:53] Rose Springvale: thanks kas
[12:53] Rose Springvale: second?
[12:53] Kaseido Quandry: woops, to create a commerce commission to….
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[12:53] Rose Springvale: thank you
[12:53] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[12:53] Rose Springvale: discussion?
[12:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Woo hoo
[12:54] Arria Perreault: Since years, I try to explane that SL commerce have evolved. We have to take in account the Xstreet platform
[12:54] Arria Perreault: commerce is less and less local
[12:54] Arria Perreault: I also consider that commerce is not the good concept
[12:54] Arria Perreault: where are the services?
[12:55] Rose Springvale: services?
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: Stui?
[12:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Tor ?
[12:55] Arria Perreault: some of your citizen can also sell services, not only goods
[12:55] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:55] Rose Springvale: that is also commerce
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: Xstreet is only one tool to sell something in SL
[12:55] Arria Perreault: for example the musicians
[12:55] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Tor is going to open a escort agency
[12:55] Lilith Ivory: also you need a place where people can look at your items
[12:55] Arria Perreault: it’s a businees to be musician in SL
[12:56] Kaseido Quandry: Arria’s got a good point , and I hope she participates in the commission
[12:56] Rose Springvale: Commerce is a division of trade or production which deals with the exchange of goods and services from producer to final consumer OR commerce is the exchage of goods and services from the producer to the consumer. …
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: yes Lil, I prefer in world shopping
[12:56] Arria Perreault: they should be included in the reflexions of this commission
[12:56] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I think that it’s key that we look at the quality of product presentation in our stores
[12:56] Kaseido Quandry: I’m also happy to get the communications commission coordinating with what you do
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: I would assume that.
[12:56] Rose Springvale: everyone in the community is welcomed and encouraged to participate, that’s the whole point
[12:57] Rose Springvale: all meetings will be open, in varying time zones and days of the week, so that we CAN have all particpate
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: Also, things like central landing points.
[12:57] StuiChicanne Darkstone: to ensure that if we are to exploit Xstreet, that when it brings people to CDS that they perhaps are encouraged to shop around
[12:57] Rose Springvale: then the chairs will report back to the RA for actions
[12:57] Arria Perreault: we will spend our sl life in commissions
[12:57] Tor Karlsvalt: better than in RA.
[12:57] Arria Perreault: no parties anymore
[12:57] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:57] Timo Gufler: agrees with Arria
[12:57] Lilith Ivory: I´ve a lot of ideas how to bring more customers
[12:57] Arria Perreault: only commission meetings
[12:58] Arria Perreault: great term
[12:58] Rose Springvale: you are free to post on the forums
[12:58] Kaseido Quandry: omg not work!
[12:58] Kaseido Quandry faints from exhaustion
[12:58] Rose Springvale: other discussion?
[12:59] Arria Perreault: as AA is non profit, is the commerce still allowed?
[12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well commissions that improve the efficiency of the sims
[12:59] Pip Torok: good point Arria
[12:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and make them ultimately more pleasant will lead to profitability and self sufficiency
[12:59] Ranma Tardis: is it the job of government to promote the business intrests of the few and ingore the needs of the majority?
[12:59] Delia Lake is imagining fun commission meetings with live music playing
[12:59] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:00] Kaseido Quandry: woot, Delia! I’ll hire the caterers!
[13:00] Rose Springvale: folks we have volunteers who want to pursue this area of interest to them.
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and besides from stabilising influences of reassuring the community thru action
[13:00] Arria Perreault: I had a question, I think
[13:00] Rose Springvale: everyont doesn’t have to participate
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: we can deliver better parties from the proceeds of increased appeal
[13:00] Arria Perreault: if AA is non-profit, is the commerce still allowed?
[13:00] Callipygian Christensen: and dancers and bonbons
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[13:00] Rose Springvale: and i think your question is one for the commission to discuss, not us in forming a commission
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps the businesses will have launch parties
[13:00] Rose Springvale: education comes in many forms though i think
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: many do
[13:01] Arria Perreault: I agree with that. It’s an issue that this commission must adress
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: maybe I can persuade a gay club to migrate
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: with the right incentive
[13:01] Ranma Tardis: still business in a private concern over o public one
[13:01] Kaseido Quandry: only if it’s in theme, Stui, lol
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: they are great for loyal traffic
[13:01] Arria Perreault: it’s private, Ramna
[13:01] Rose Springvale: are we ready for the vote establishing the commission?
[13:01] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha the romans were all up for a bit of gay
[13:02] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[13:02] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:02] Arria Perreault: CDS should offer good conditions. that’s all
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: righ
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: t
[13:02] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP have a little faith
[13:02] Rose Springvale: okay, time is up for discussion
[13:02] Rose Springvale: here is the motion: to address issues of businesses in our sims, and work together to create a better environment for commerce in CDS, with Stui and Lilith as chairs
[13:03] Arria Perreault: I believe only in facts
[13:03] Rose Springvale: all in favor, say aye, opposed, nay
[13:03] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[13:03] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:03] Timo Gufler: nay
[13:03] Arria Perreault: I don’t how many commissions about commerce we already had
[13:03] Pip Torok: nay
[13:03] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[13:03] Arria Perreault: nay
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: so let´s give it another try hehe
[13:04] Rose Springvale: chair vote aye, and it goes to 7 day
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: so if we fail before we should jsut not try?
[13:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha Lil if it’d been you on your own you would have had more support *LOL*
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: last term Pat encouraged me and Sol to renew the comerce commision
[13:04] Rose Springvale: thank you.
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: hard to belive this is a problem.
[13:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I apologise
[13:04] Pip Torok: it is, Tor
[13:04] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:05] Arria Perreault: Lilith, if CDS goes non-profit, we can close our shops or we sell only as non-profit
[13:05] Arria Perreault: so why a commission?
[13:05] Kaseido Quandry: Tor, we might accomplish something other than the endless circle-jerk, and then where would we all be?!
[13:05] Rose Springvale: now, i have listed three more commisions,why on earth woudl you say that?
[13:05] Timo Gufler: who says the CDS will go to non-profit?
[13:05] StuiChicanne Darkstone: maybe we should amend the chairs *LOL*
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS is not going non-profit. Geesh
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: I think that´s not true Aria
[13:05] Arria Perreault: I don’t know
[13:05] You decline Seraph City from A group member named Pumpkin Tripsa.
[13:05] Arria Perreault: I said “if2
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[13:05] Arria Perreault: “if”
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: Sudane explained Non profid and shop rentals a few month age
[13:05] Timo Gufler: the CDS is indepent of any external orgnanization right now
[13:06] Rose Springvale: the remaining commissions on our agenda are things that have come from other citizens
[13:06] Lilith Ivory: it´s would still be possible
[13:06] Rose Springvale: we can discuss them or not
[13:06] Pip Torok: and long may it remain so …
[13:06] Jamie Palisades smiles. Except the ones that own it already?
[13:07] Timo Gufler: oh yes… Linden Lab
[13:07] Arria Perreault: I hope it stays so, Timo
[13:07] Timo Gufler: but we can’t help that
[13:07] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:07] Rose Springvale: Does anyone want to talk about covenant review?
[13:07] Arria Perreault: France: Mexico 0:2
[13:07] Jamie Palisades: ?me looks around for Mses. Erato and Llewellyn. Some things can be helped, but not others, eh Timo?
[13:07] Rose Springvale: this came from a citizen, via the forums
[13:07] Rose Springvale: hi jamie
[13:08] Jamie Palisades luaghs — you want to do a commission, Ropse? I can help, if that’s what the RA wants. God knows it;s overdue
[13:08] Rose Springvale: if you all would like to revive the corporate ownership commission, we can add it to the list for an even 8
[13:08] Pip Torok: what would be the purpose of this commission?
[13:08] Rose Springvale: which are you volunteering for Jamie?
[13:08] Rose Springvale: covenants or ownership?
[13:08] Pip Torok: covenants
[13:08] Arria Perreault: Convenant review is for the Guild
[13:08] Rose Springvale: actually no
[13:08] Jamie Palisades chuckles. Chat lag. Doe sthe RA want to do covenant review and harmonization? hahah yes, they;ve done so well.
[13:08] Rose Springvale: the guild made that very clear.
[13:09] Arria Perreault: in your program, you announced also that you would revivify the Guild
[13:09] Rose Springvale: we have had a request from a citizen to look at the covenants.
[13:09] Rose Springvale: indeed, and the guild met last week. and will meet again i believe after this week
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: true, the guild wants RA to set the theme and such
[13:09] Rose Springvale: no
[13:09] Pip Torok: “look at” means what?
[13:09] Rose Springvale: the guild doesn’t want to deal with covenants
[13:09] Rose Springvale: we have 11 sims
[13:10] Rose Springvale: and 6 different covenants
[13:10] Timo Gufler: but what if RA wants guild to deal with the covenants?
[13:10] Rose Springvale: some of them are accessible through the land tabs
[13:10] Jamie Palisades: Then I guess you better all go to meetings there and help Moon get a quorum
[13:10] Rose Springvale: i think, if i understand moons position, they will decline as this is legislative
[13:10] Arria Perreault: can we propose convenant for the AA sims too?
[13:10] Rose Springvale: we can ignore it.
[13:10] Rose Springvale: of course, AA is CDS
[13:11] Jamie Palisades: only if you don’t kill the merger, dears.
[13:11] Timo Gufler: hehe
[13:11] Arria Perreault: I am temptaded …
[13:11] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:11] Arria Perreault: temptated
[13:11] Kaseido Quandry: we love you too Arria
[13:11] Rose Springvale: i thnk you mean tempted
[13:11] Arria Perreault: I know, Kas
[13:11] Rose Springvale: so … no on covenant review?
[13:11] Jamie Palisades: ANyway, suffice to say, ladies & gentlemen, if there is going to be a covenant review, happy to help. It was key unfinished business, last time I looked. And yes, it woudl need to include AA to make any sense, unless you guys kjill it before then.
[13:12] Arria Perreault: I mean: I like the idea to write a convenant for AA sims
[13:12] Rose Springvale: thank you jamie
[13:12] Rose Springvale: there is a covenant in place there at least… nto so with NFS lol
[13:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I bet you do AP
[13:12] Rose Springvale: folks
[13:12] Rose Springvale: lets either have a motion or move on
[13:12] Arria Perreault: Jamie, we don’t have this power …
[13:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps you could visit it some time
[13:12] Jamie Palisades: Arria, you do, over AA, until you throw them out
[13:12] Timo Gufler: if there would be a covenant committe, I propose Jamie chairs it
[13:13] Rose Springvale: we’d need a motion for such a committee first
[13:13] Arria Perreault: I have visited AA and I like what I have seen
[13:13] Timo Gufler: oh yes
[13:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would propose to invite AP to AA to fact find before recommending her input
[13:13] Rose Springvale: this is how we get things done folks
[13:13] Timo Gufler: or oh no
[13:13] Arria Perreault: who will be the chair?
[13:13] Jamie Palisades: Timo,, as it;s a tough issue here, why don’t i volunteer to write up what such a commitee would do, if it exists, and Forum post it, you guys can read that they think about it next meeting?
[13:13] Kaseido Quandry: I like that
[13:14] Jamie Palisades: *read it and then thikn about it
[13:14] Pip Torok agrees
[13:14] Arria Perreault: I volunteer to be chair
[13:14] Rose Springvale: that’s a great idea and generous offer, thanks
[13:14] Timo Gufler: yes, Jamie
[13:14] Rose Springvale: lets take a look at what jamie comes up with, and determine the form we need for further researche
[13:14] Jamie Palisades smiles. I’ll limit myself to writing the description as a proposal for now. Good.
[13:14] Rose Springvale: thanks jamie
[13:15] Rose Springvale: moving on… Ethics and conflicts of interest have been a major issue this term
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I have read lots of what Jamie said abt covenants and liked his approach.
[13:15] Rose Springvale: and it is time we have a cds policy on it
[13:16] Timo Gufler: policy?
[13:16] Rose Springvale: The person who seems to be the most concerned about this is Pat, so i’d move that we set up a conflict/ethics committie to come up with a cds policy, and let Pat tell us what he thinks we need
[13:16] Timo Gufler: another commitee…
[13:16] Kaseido Quandry: that sounds terrific
[13:16] Rose Springvale: best if we all know rather than be accused.
[13:16] Tor Karlsvalt: A do’s and don’t for office holders.
[13:16] Arria Perreault: what that means? about convenant?
[13:16] Rose Springvale: covenant has been dealt with for now, We are talking about conflicts of interest and ethics
[13:17] Timo Gufler: we should be able to make decisons without ten committees!
[13:17] Arria Perreault: what did we decide?
[13:17] Tor Karlsvalt: committies involve more residents
[13:17] Ranma Tardis: should it not be done by the residents of each sim instead of ditating from the central government?
[13:17] Rose Springvale: timo, we are representative democracy. when we have the fact from the committed, then we make decisions
[13:17] Kaseido Quandry: we don’t need “decisions,” we need *work*
[13:17] Rose Springvale: we dont’ shoot from the hip
[13:17] Lilith Ivory: and have more time to work something out
[13:18] Timo Gufler: who wants to spend all his/her virtual time sitting in committees?
[13:18] Arria Perreault: Rose, can you tell me what we/you decide about convenants?
[13:18] Jamie Palisades: (Tor, all “CDS commissions” have rules requiring that we let all citizens attend & participate. Been in our laws for a long time.)
[13:18] Kaseido Quandry: Timo, nobody forced you to take this job
[13:18] Rose Springvale: arria, sure, let me cut and paste
[13:18] Timo Gufler: but if you want to infcluence, you must sit there
[13:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP well you want to chair a commission upon covenants you tell us what you’d decide
[13:18] Kaseido Quandry: if you want to step down because you can’t handle it, that’s ok
[13:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m rivetted to know
[13:18] Rose Springvale: [13:14] Rose Springvale: lets take a look at what jamie comes up with, and determine the form we need for further researche
[13:14] Jamie Palisades smiles. I’ll limit myself to writing the description as a proposal for now. Good.
[13:19] Arria Perreault: it was your proposal
[13:19] Arria Perreault: we did not vote
[13:19] Rose Springvale: okay folks lets keep moving here.
[13:19] Rose Springvale: no
[13:19] Timo Gufler: how were decisions made before committees?
[13:19] Pip Torok notes that Kas is quick to suggest the absence of RA members …
[13:19] Rose Springvale: we accepted jamies offer to write up a proposal and post o nthe forums
[13:19] Arria Perreault: we= ?
[13:19] Rose Springvale: then we’ll discuss again
[13:19] Arria Perreault: I did not vote
[13:19] Rose Springvale: there was no motion
[13:19] Jamie Palisades: naah, no acceptance, really, just an offe3r made in public RA can always vote it down, or choose not to act.
[13:20] Rose Springvale: this was unstructured discussion
[13:20] Kaseido Quandry: I am, Pip – we ran for office, we have a duty to do something, and not just play hall monitor
[13:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: **’`*`’** Stui **’`*`’**
[13:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: notes that Pip is quick to point out the obvious
[13:20] Rose Springvale: okay
[13:20] Rose Springvale: now
[13:20] Rose Springvale: we don’t need a commission on conflicts and ethics
[13:20] Rose Springvale: we can go on calling each other names and pointing fingers
[13:20] Rose Springvale: but that’s not particularly flattering to our community
[13:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Rosy I have a talent for inspiring that
[13:20] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well I did last term
[13:21] Tor Karlsvalt: odd that the side so concerned about ethics in the past now does not want a commission.
[13:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps I can foster it
[13:21] Timo Gufler: what would that committee do? write the CDS version of Bible/Quaran?
[13:21] Rose Springvale: if you’d like to have a policy, or talk about it more…
[13:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am like a pariah
[13:21] Arria Perreault: I don’t think a commission will solve the question of conflicts of interest
[13:21] Kaseido Quandry: TImo, there isn’t an organization in the world that doesn’t have a written code of conduct
[13:22] Timo Gufler: majority should not decide what is ethical wnad what is not, since it’s question about conscience
[13:22] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the commission coud define it for CDS
[13:22] Pip Torok: the problem is that victims of name-calling leave and are not around to support critics of this practice
[13:22] Timo Gufler: The CDS Ethics?
[13:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: a commission could arrange some education perhaps
[13:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha but then the RA would vote about expulsion of a citizen from the sims
[13:22] Arria Perreault: to list examples
[13:22] Tor Karlsvalt: This is a common issue in RL governments
[13:22] Kaseido Quandry: Pip’s absolutely right – without a clear polcy, there’s a race to the bottom in accusations and name calling
[13:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: surely that must have a set code of conduct implied
[13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: and always here as well.
[13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or else the citizenship will be running wild
[13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: imagine that
[13:23] Rose Springvale: Pip, would you be interested in leading some discussion on this?
[13:23] Timo Gufler: if we have a policy then it will be time for interpreting it
[13:23] Pip Torok: yes
[13:23] Rose Springvale: thank you
[13:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’d be frolickin with a view to never getting a bollocking
[13:23] Pip Torok: but via the Forums …
[13:23] Rose Springvale: Would you like it to be informal or as a commision?
[13:23] Rose Springvale: no
[13:23] Rose Springvale: i’m not okay with forums only discussions
[13:23] Kaseido Quandry: no, in SL
[13:23] Timo Gufler: all policies have loopholes
[13:23] Pip Torok: it wd be a _discussion_
[13:23] Rose Springvale: based on the number of citizens not accessing the froums
[13:24] Tor Karlsvalt: i agree, we are an in-world experience.
[13:24] Pip Torok: informal, not a commission
[13:24] Kaseido Quandry: meet openly in SL, or don’t do it
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: having english not as my first language I´ve problems to take part in forum discussions
[13:24] Rose Springvale: Kas, would you like to run something n world if pip doesn’t want to?
[13:24] Lilith Ivory: imo there should be meetings inworld
[13:25] Pip Torok: why Kas … we need extended arguments and thats difficult in chat
[13:25] Kaseido Quandry: I’d like to coordinate with Pat- maybe we can co-organize
[13:25] Pip Torok: but possible in the Forums
[13:25] Rose Springvale: access, accountbility, and action folks
[13:25] Tor Karlsvalt: you can always submit notecards Pip
[13:25] Kaseido Quandry: and the forums have serious issues with the kind of behavior that doesn’t happen as much face to face
[13:25] StuiChicanne Darkstone: because the forums are often degenerative in discussion
[13:25] Callipygian Christensen: The two avenues are not mutually exclusive..have meetings and discuss what comes up on the forums as well
[13:25] Rose Springvale: okay, so now we have Pip volunteering to start a forum thread, and Kas will hold a meeting in world, iviting pat to participate
[13:25] Rose Springvale: with her
[13:26] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and rather prone to irrelevance and derailing
[13:26] Rose Springvale: are we satisfied with that?
[13:26] Rose Springvale: stui
[13:26] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[13:26] Tor Karlsvalt: it’s a compromise
[13:26] Rose Springvale: can i have a motion so we can summarise this?
[13:26] Arria Perreault: we don’t vote anymmore in RA …
[13:26] Rose Springvale: arria, we will
[13:26] Rose Springvale: just not withouth information from the citiens
[13:26] Rose Springvale: citizens
[13:26] Kaseido Quandry: move to begin a discussion on ethics, me and Pat to coordinate inworld meetings, Pip to launch a forum thread
[13:27] Rose Springvale: thank you. second?
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[13:27] Pip Torok: seconded
[13:27] Rose Springvale: thanks In favor, Aye, opposed nay
[13:27] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:27] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[13:27] Pip Torok: aye
[13:27] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:27] Timo Gufler: aye
[13:27] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:27] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:27] Rose Springvale: stui?
[13:27] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oui
[13:28] Rose Springvale: thanks Motion carries. Remember that each of these commisions will be the basis for discussion and legislation at future RA meetings
[13:28] Rose Springvale: there is method here
[13:28] Arria Perreault: (still no commission for Arria …)
[13:28] Rose Springvale: we plan the work, then work the plan
[13:28] StuiChicanne Darkstone: wheels out a cross
[13:29] Rose Springvale: smiles. there is still the citizen ship commission… interested in chairing that Arria?
[13:29] Arria Perreault: yes, of course
[13:29] Rose Springvale: okay, so if we get a motion and a mission for it…
[13:29] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:30] Delia Lake hopes that any new citizenship commission will public and not a private workgroup with no log…….
[13:30] Arria Perreault: yes,maybe it’s not an important concern …
[13:31] Lilith Ivory nods
[13:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I want to have this commission
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: I motion that we create a citizenship commission chaired by Arria.
[13:31] Rose Springvale: mission being?
[13:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: on account of my experience of the last one
[13:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll sit with Arria
[13:31] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[13:31] Tor Karlsvalt: Its mission being to review the rules of citizenship and make recommendations to RA.
[13:31] Arria Perreault: define the conditions to have the citizenship in CDS
[13:31] Rose Springvale: all members of the RA and community are encouraged to participat
[13:32] Jamie Palisades raises hand – a question?
[13:32] Arria Perreault: on my right or on my left, Stui ?
[13:32] Rose Springvale: one moment jamie
[13:32] Rose Springvale: we’ll get the motion on the floor and then discuss
[13:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP I’ll sit on your shoulders
[13:32] Arria Perreault: I second
[13:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you can carry me
[13:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I don’t mind
[13:32] Rose Springvale: discussion
[13:32] Arria Perreault: I am too weak for that
[13:32] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m only 112lbs soaking wet
[13:32] Rose Springvale: smiles stui…
[13:33] Arria Perreault: keep your wings then
[13:33] Rose Springvale: any discussion on the citizenship commission
[13:33] Jamie Palisades raises that hand again
[13:33] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can we have the 3rd transcript of the last one yet ?
[13:33] Rose Springvale: jamie go on
[13:33] Jamie Palisades: is the idea here to, among other things, solve the landless- citizen-by-being-someone’s-buddy-in-a-big-group issue? Are there other specific points that are seen as trouble areas?
[13:34] Rose Springvale: yes, that and the issues of group citizenship where the group is more than a buddy in a big group
[13:34] Arria Perreault: it belongs to this, yes
[13:34] Rose Springvale: We have two groups in Al Andalus that want to have input on this commission
[13:34] Rose Springvale: muhammed represents one, Delia the other
[13:34] Rose Springvale: so please try to hold meetings when they can participate
[13:34] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:34] Rose Springvale: there may be others in CDS as well
[13:35] muhammedyussif Wikinger: thank you
[13:35] Jamie Palisades nods. OK, I told Desmond that 985 caledon ISC members can’t be citizens, through one Caledon house, last year. Smile
[13:35] Delia Lake would like to be part of the citizenship commission, yes
[13:35] Rose Springvale: it was 1456 i think and no one certified them!
[13:35] Lilith Ivory: I´ll try to come also
[13:35] Arria Perreault: I will make advertising
[13:35] Rose Springvale: great. So shall we give them authority by voting on the motion?
[13:35] Jamie Palisades: (Nah, the other 400 are Kamiliah’s alts)
[13:36] Timo Gufler: we should not only make meeting times good for AA people but CDS people also
[13:36] Arria Perreault: everyone is welcome. meeting will be public. transcripts will be published
[13:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I would welcome Delia and muh to sit too
[13:36] StuiChicanne Darkstone: the table is big and round
[13:36] Rose Springvale: i’ve asked that Timo, that each group try to meet at least three times
[13:36] Rose Springvale: one time for eu time zones, one for us, and one weekend if possible
[13:36] Rose Springvale: okay, ready to vote?
[13:37] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[13:37] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[13:37] Pip Torok: lets vote
[13:38] Rose Springvale: motion reads:create a citizenship commission chaired by Arria. Its mission being to review the rules of citizenship and make recommendations to RA.
[13:38] Rose Springvale: in favor aye, opposed nay
[13:38] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:38] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:39] Pip Torok: aye
[13:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!! :p :p
[13:39] Timo Gufler: nay for committees (aye for Arria)
[13:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I mean oui
[13:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: is that a yes or a no then Timo ?
[13:39] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:39] Timo Gufler: nay
[13:39] Rose Springvale: thank you motion carries.
[13:39] StuiChicanne Darkstone: don’t confuse me too much
[13:39] Rose Springvale: end of commissions, unless someone has more?
[13:40] Timo Gufler: at least not me
[13:40] Arria Perreault: we can try to think about ..
[13:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: can we have a commission to end all commissions chaired by Timo ?
[13:40] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:40] StuiChicanne Darkstone: he seems eager to help
[13:40] Timo Gufler: good idea, Stui
[13:40] Rose Springvale: now, you all see that there is a lot of work to do
[13:40] Callipygian Christensen: hi Alexia
[13:40] Rose Springvale: we have a maximum of 24 meetings left
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: hi Alexia
[13:41] Rose Springvale: so let me knwo when you want to be on the calendar, and look at my proposed dates on the original notes.
[13:41] Kaseido Quandry: this is going to be a right mess if we don’t get the calendar working
[13:41] Rose Springvale: we will give RA time to you, and please look at the RA procedures on how to report back from commission
[13:41] Rose Springvale: if no one else will do it, i’ll make sure they are there kas
[13:42] Rose Springvale: any questiosn before we move on?
[13:42] Arria Perreault: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=281
[13:42] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[13:42] Rose Springvale: Great. we are on taget to finish. is that the commission process Arria?
[13:43] Arria Perreault: yes, in rules of procedures of the RA
[13:43] Rose Springvale: thanks
[13:43] Arria Perreault: (in the portal)
[13:43] Rose Springvale: the next item on the agenda is the operating agreement for for the al andalus sims
[13:44] Rose Springvale: AS you can see in the merger agreement, there was an option for CDS to create a non profit organization to hold the AA sims
[13:44] Rose Springvale: this is not a quick and easy process, but the merger can still be completed by virtue of an operating agreement between CDS and the estate owner of AA, Virtual Democracy Inc.
[13:45] Rose Springvale: So it would be good to have some people working on that
[13:45] Rose Springvale: do you want to discuss this?
[13:45] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:45] Arria Perreault: of course
[13:46] Rose Springvale: Jamie, i know you didn’t come to make presentations, but would you be interested in helping us on this discussion, as there is concern that i’m not unbiased
[13:46] Rose Springvale: i probably should have asked that privately lol
[13:46] Jamie Palisades chuckles
[13:46] Jamie Palisades: nice
[13:47] Jamie Palisades: well, i WROE the mreger agreement
[13:47] Jamie Palisades: *wrote it
[13:47] Rose Springvale remembers
[13:47] Arria Perreault: I think we need also poeple from each opinion
[13:47] Jamie Palisades: so I am at least as biased as the people who lost the campaign to kill it
[13:47] Rose Springvale: right now we as CDS have a legal agreement
[13:47] Jamie Palisades: is that still a CDS anti-arab ovement now? or is AA considered a settled part of CDS?
[13:48] Jamie Palisades: becqauwe, yes, *legally*, you guys have to act within about a month
[13:48] Arria Perreault: no Jamie, the question is different
[13:48] Arria Perreault: I have a first question
[13:48] Jamie Palisades smiles., I will be happy, as the guy who designer the merger in a former role, to answer questions in the RA wishes, Rose.
[13:48] Jamie Palisades: *designed
[13:48] Rose Springvale: thank you.
[13:49] Jamie Palisades: *if
[13:49] Rose Springvale: go on arria
[13:49] muhammedyussif Wikinger: MY rises hand
[13:49] Arria Perreault: there are several lawyers in this room. I would like to know what is the validity of an agreement between VDI, rl org, and CDS that has no legal existence?
[13:49] Arria Perreault: I mean, it’s a bit like to get married with a ghost
[13:50] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:50] Timo Gufler: good point, Arria
[13:51] Kaseido Quandry: I don’t see a problem with its enforceablity – what the CDS is was clear to both parties, and would be to a judge
[13:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: till death do us part
[13:51] Jamie Palisades smiles. Arria, what’s the enforceability of any CDS law in SL?
[13:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I’m the police
[13:51] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I AM THE LAW !
[13:52] Arria Perreault: may I remind you that there was an attempt to ban our Chancellor from any office
[13:52] Arria Perreault: for LL, CDS doesnt exist
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: no there wasn’t
[13:52] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which chancellor ?
[13:53] Rose Springvale: folks lets stay on topic
[13:53] Jamie Palisades: Sonja. and an attempt to throw out your LRA, Arria
[13:53] Pip Torok: yes there was, Tor
[13:53] Kaseido Quandry: are you claiming the CDS has no real existence, Arria?
[13:53] StuiChicanne Darkstone: which chancellor ?
[13:53] Kaseido Quandry: I’ve *said* you’re a roleplay fantasy, but really…
[13:53] Arria Perreault: no legal existence
[13:53] Rose Springvale: i’m a real person
[13:53] Timo Gufler: no existence in rl
[13:53] Rose Springvale: so is kas, stui
[13:53] Rose Springvale: jamie
[13:53] Rose Springvale: etc
[13:53] Rose Springvale: WE are the cds
[13:53] Arria Perreault: if I make a contract, I have to make it with someone who is able to make it
[13:54] Rose Springvale: legally, a joing venture
[13:54] Rose Springvale: our chancellor is the elected representative to make contracts
[13:54] Rose Springvale: thats the terms of our deal
[13:54] Rose Springvale: as citizens in cds
[13:54] Rose Springvale: joint*
[13:54] Timo Gufler: how about we Europeans?
[13:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: well are we going to meet in a railway carriage on the french german border ?
[13:54] Rose Springvale: same thing
[13:54] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’ll bring a bic
[13:54] Jamie Palisades smiles, rolls eyes, raises hand.
[13:55] Rose Springvale: sorry, you are leading this
[13:55] Rose Springvale: go on jamie
[13:55] Jamie Palisades: OK. Tow postsw.
[13:55] Jamie Palisades: —
[13:56] Jamie Palisades: Here’s where I think you guys really are:
1. There was a merger. AA *is* in CDS.
2. But some admin arrangements like EO will not get moved until the one year anniversay, so that revocatioon is feasible, if someone revokes.
3. That deadline is coming up in a few weks.
4. CDS voted in a nonbinding referendum not to break the merger.
5. The CDA RA oc9ud sitll act, under its own terms by some specific vote – but not for much longer.
6. I have no idea whether AA has or will make a decision. CDS should ask AA how the hell that will happen,. in my opinion.
7. The move to breask the merger within CDS, and continued attacks, have created bad feelings – and bad beahvior – in both directionrs that are obviously mnaking you people deeply split, and largely deadlocked. I must say, that disappoints me.
8. Still, here are CDS choices: and I think it’s the RA that must act, if anyone acts.
[13:56] Jamie Palisades: —
[13:56] Jamie Palisades: i THINK you have three options only
[13:56] Jamie Palisades: a. RA votes to end the merger before the deadline.
b. RA does nothing – no vote, and leaves VDI in place as owner, asks them to turn over EO to Sudane.
c. RA creates new nonprofit thingie and tells AA to put itself in THAT one. (This was something Gwyneth said was possible, here, a few months ago, she made some reference to other nonprofits which I guess Beta controls, shrug).
[13:57] Jamie Palisades: Note – you do nothing, we end up with (b), and your choice under CDSS law, supervising the Executive, about the EO consolidation.
[13:58] Jamie Palisades: (I guess you coulod do iut with (b) and leave it with Rose too, but I doubt she wants it, and alsop, I thin the SC hgas not decided whether that would be permanently OK.)
[13:58] Jamie Palisades: done, thanks
[13:58] Jamie Palisades: —-
[13:58] muhammedyussif Wikinger: permission to speak?
[13:58] StuiChicanne Darkstone: tinkle or get off the potty
[13:59] Jamie Palisades: i;m done
[13:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Jamie has done it
[13:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: he’s silenced the RA
[13:59] StuiChicanne Darkstone: or I’m crashing
[14:00] Jamie Palisades: Not the first time. Muhammad has a question?
[14:00] Rose Springvale: go on muhammed
[14:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Go on MUH !!
[14:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone:
[14:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Reading the agreement I am thinking
[14:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: the US non profit regulations seem very complicated
[14:01] muhammedyussif Wikinger: but will Linden lab have easier to accept an US non profit organisation
[14:01] muhammedyussif Wikinger: compared to an European?
[14:01] Kaseido Quandry: Muh, as of a while back, LL would *only* accept US nonprofits
[14:01] muhammedyussif Wikinger: done
[14:01] Jamie Palisades: (i agree with muhammad – canadian rules were much easier, for example – i understand VDI has fully qualified, though, under its law. )
[14:01] Kaseido Quandry: I was advising a South African NGO at the time
[14:01] Arria Perreault: the first one was not a canadian one?
[14:01] Timo Gufler: would you like to set the AA under a Finnish non-profit?
[14:02] Jamie Palisades: Kas, that has not been true for several years AFAik
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript from the RA meeting, June 17, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Jun 17, 2010 2:49 pm
[14:02] Kaseido Quandry: ok
[14:02] muhammedyussif Wikinger: or swedish as I know best
[14:02] Timo Gufler: exactly Muhammed
[14:02] Jamie Palisades raises hanbd for a further comment when the topic has completed
[14:02] muhammedyussif Wikinger: But when we have an US why don’t use it
[14:02] Arria Perreault: I though Michel made a canadian rl
[14:03] Arria Perreault: org*
[14:03] Rose Springvale: vdi is fully qualified in the US. all the documents for VDI have been posted for review and several people have done so
[14:04] StuiChicanne Darkstone: before or after he tied himself to a moose and rode out of town ?
[14:04] Jamie Palisades: (muhammed: you can; Arria: he did. ) I am afraid that the opponents of AA disagreed with keeping VDI only because they did not like which people run it. It would be like a personal trust decision in Sudane as Treasurer. And that question, about CDS being hostage to ANY one RL person, is a very serious one for CDS.
[14:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: thewn it is only the members of the VDI tht is questionable
[14:04] Jamie Palisades: (exactly, you coul dmake its board someone else, if VDI wants to vote itself into something different)
[14:05] Rose Springvale: let me try to pull this back to the topic
[14:05] Jamie Palisades: (but honestly I would not recommend making its board the RA – for several stability reasons.)
[14:05] Kaseido Quandry: yes, but apparently the people most opposed, are also unwilling to disclose their RL identity or become legally responsible
[14:05] Rose Springvale: even if cds wishes to do some other organization, it can’t do it in 4 weeks
[14:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I see
[14:05] Rose Springvale: so we need to have an agreement between the organizations on how operations will proceed
[14:05] Arria Perreault: Jamie, many people would like to know the intentions of VDI
[14:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: So change VDI so all can trust it
[14:06] Kaseido Quandry: Muhammad, that’d be a good outcome.
[14:06] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear Mu
[14:06] Rose Springvale: it is now 4 :06
[14:07] Rose Springvale: this will need further discussion
[14:07] Rose Springvale: oops
[14:07] Rose Springvale: 206 slt
[14:07] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha I would think to get something done AP
[14:07] Jamie Palisades: I;d like to know the intentions of Beta Technologies, too, FWIW
[14:07] Tor Karlsvalt: me too
[14:07] Delia Lake: @ Arria, the intentions of VDI?
[14:07] Kaseido Quandry: and I’d like an independent audit of our financials
[14:07] Jamie Palisades: BUt that’s a great point, ARria. Has anyone directed a question to them?
[14:07] Kaseido Quandry: ….and a pony.
[14:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps we can vote in a np called ITO
[14:08] Arria Perreault: I am doing it now
[14:08] Jamie Palisades: Want a concrete suggestion? Have thee of you representing a range of viewpoints on the RA meeting with the VDI board.
[14:08] Jamie Palisades: *three
[14:08] Yekaterina Kalchek: Excellent idea, Jmie
[14:08] Arria Perreault: I am ready to meet the VDI board
[14:08] Jamie Palisades: sent three who are NOT rockthrowers, and have not devoted themselves ot its destructuon, if you want a real converstaion
[14:08] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ITO – Inertia thru opposition
[14:08] Kaseido Quandry: that it is
[14:08] Arria Perreault: in a public meeting
[14:09] Jamie Palisades: i am not so sure about public meteing
[14:09] Jamie Palisades: transcr4ipted yes
[14:09] Arria Perreault: in my opinion, it is the next step
[14:09] Yekaterina Kalchek: In a minuted meeting with the minutes circulated?
[14:09] Arria Perreault: we can adress our questions
[14:09] Jamie Palisades: but open to infantile behavior, maybe not
[14:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I am rather of the opinion that if AP wasn’t opposed there’d be no issue
[14:10] Rose Springvale: may i suggest that we table this to next week
[14:10] Arria Perreault: I have questions, Stui
[14:10] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[14:10] Kaseido Quandry: I’d like to be there – as I’m going to be writing a law journal article addressing some of the questions Arria’s raised
[14:10] Rose Springvale: and those of you with queries for VDI write them down
[14:10] Jamie Palisades: really? I thought Pat & Gywn were the Kill AA team supreme shrug. WHy not have the RA send Pip, Arria and Lilith?
[14:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: constructive ones AP ?
[14:10] Rose Springvale: smiles
[14:10] Rose Springvale: conflict of interests?
[14:11] Jamie Palisades chuckles. find me someone in here without one
[14:11] Arria Perreault: I have constructive questions, yes
[14:11] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha well perhaps you can make them concise too
[14:11] Lilith Ivory smiles
[14:11] Arria Perreault: it is very important for citizen
[14:11] Rose Springvale: lets see them on the forums, and determine who the best representatives to send to a meeting might be
[14:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: AP it’d be one of the first time you actually championed citizen involvement
[14:12] Arria Perreault: I have no conflict of interest
[14:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and
[14:12] Jamie Palisades: i can only ofger my personal obeservtaion that Pip, Arria and Lilith, while they;re all biased in their own ways, all have longstanding records as constructive, polite and acting in good faith, in my view. Pick three others if you want. But send someone , you guys need to TALK
[14:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if you visited AA as much as you talk about it
[14:12] Arria Perreault: having an opinion is not a conflict of interest
[14:12] StuiChicanne Darkstone: you’d perhaps be better qualified to understand it
[14:12] Rose Springvale: thanks for your input jamie
[14:12] Rose Springvale: folks
[14:12] Rose Springvale: we are out of time
[14:12] Arria Perreault: Stui, I have visited AA indetail
[14:12] Yekaterina Kalchek: I feel we should listen to Jamie
[14:12] Rose Springvale: next meeting will be a week from saturday
[14:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: perhaps if you weren’t putting your toes into the water you’d get wet
[14:13] Rose Springvale: at noon. we will take up the conversation from there
[14:13] Rose Springvale: any announcements befroe we adjourn?
[14:13] StuiChicanne Darkstone: rather than splashing in the puddles and splashing the onlookers
[14:13] Kaseido Quandry: yes – communications commission meeting, tomorrow at 10am SLT
[14:13] Arria Perreault: I have one announcement
[14:14] Rose Springvale: thanks kas, go on arria
[14:14] Arria Perreault: Primtionnary at 8pm in the Amphitheater
[14:14] Arria Perreault: right to build issue is solved
[14:14] Kaseido Quandry: woot! I’ll be there if I can
[14:14] Rose Springvale: are you leadign that Arria?
[14:15] Jamie Palisades: tonight SLT, Arria?
[14:15] Arria Perreault: no, it’s too late for me
[14:15] Arria Perreault: Anna ad Bag will do it
[14:15] Pip Torok: and for me too
[14:15] Jamie Palisades: (6 hours from now, i mean)
[14:15] Rose Springvale: great, thanks
[14:15] Arria Perreault: I do only the EU time session (next week)
[14:15] Rose Springvale: othre announcements?
[14:15] Pip Torok: I’ll see you on my dreams! ….
[14:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I announce that I am still very amusing
[14:16] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and sometimes I have wit
[14:16] Rosie Gray laughs
[14:16] Rose Springvale: I think jayme mistwalkers writing group is at 6 pm
[14:16] Rose Springvale: tonight
[14:16] Naftali Torok: GOODEVENING ALL
[14:16] Naftali Torok: oeps
[14:17] Naftali Torok: sorry
[14:17] Lilith Ivory: hi naf
[14:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: when I’m engaged and on my point I’m sometimes even clever
[14:17] Pip Torok: evening naf!
[14:17] Kaseido Quandry: hi naftali!
[14:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ask Tali
[14:17] Tor Karlsvalt: hi naf
[14:17] Arria Perreault: Hi Naf
[14:17] Naftali Torok: waves at everybody
[14:17] Rose Springvale: hi naf
[14:17] Naftali Torok: still rezzing
[14:17] Rose Springvale: nothing on the ball?
[14:17] StuiChicanne Darkstone: tali has come here with her feather duster to clean away all the dust
[14:17] Tor Karlsvalt: And Rosie is selling some nice crowns and stuff in NFS.
[14:17] Pip Torok waves back
[14:18] Yekaterina Kalchek: Good evening Naf
[14:18] Arria Perreault: many people want to make a soccer turnament
[14:18] Arria Perreault: need some help
[14:18] Yekaterina Kalchek: what tournament?
[14:19] Yekaterina Kalchek: ((Just kidding! Cant escape it even here))
[14:19] Arria Perreault: we can have make teams
[14:19] Kaseido Quandry *knows* Stui’s got a vuvuzela somewhere….
[14:19] Arria Perreault: I don’t have the keys of the soccer stadion under the NFS Platz
[14:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Kas Rosy has seen where
[14:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: she sneaked in
[14:20] Kaseido Quandry gigglesnorts
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt: it is hard to get down there.
[14:20] Rose Springvale: smiles. i can put a tp back there
[14:20] Tor Karlsvalt: i went through a hole in the wall
[14:20] Arria Perreault: great
[14:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: ha Rosy is good at TP’n
[14:20] StuiChicanne Darkstone: *LOL*
[14:20] Rose Springvale: just let me know when you need it
[14:20] Arria Perreault: ok
[14:20] Rose Springvale: okay we are well over our time limit
[14:20] Rose Springvale: any other concerns befoer we adjourn?
[14:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m concerned
[14:21] Rose Springvale: smiles, you concern me too
[14:21] Rose Springvale: but that’s now what i mean
[14:21] Rose Springvale: not
[14:21] Rose Springvale: *
[14:21] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I’m concerned about the poor merchants
[14:21] Rose Springvale: set your commission times
[14:22] Rose Springvale: okay, seeing no other concerns, all in favor of adjourning say aye please
[14:22] Kaseido Quandry: aye!
[14:22] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[14:22] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[14:22] Pip Torok: aye
[14:22] Timo Gufler: aye!
[14:22] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: if they don’t get commerce commission time then the RA might as well employ professional shoplifters
[14:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: aye
[14:23] Rose Springvale: next meeting we will take up the operating agreement again, and possibly have our first commission report back
[14:23] Rose Springvale: Thank you all for your patience and service
[14:23] Pip Torok: bye all
[14:23] Jamie Palisades: Nice to see you all. Yikes, next time i check the agenda first before visiting
[14:23] Rose Springvale: taking the record

Permalink.

Special Meeting of RA and VDI Board -24 June 2010

Transcript from Special Meeting of RA and VDI Board
by Rose Springvale » Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:20 pm
[11:56] Rose Springvale: i’ve put a draft of some q & a regarding VDI in the notecard giver
[11:56] Rose Springvale: if anyone wants some light reading
[12:00] Rose Springvale: very laggy today
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: yes absolutely
[12:00] Rose Springvale: have a seat Micael
[12:00] Rose Springvale: let me see if i can locate Delia
[12:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: salamo’aleikom – hi everybody
[12:01] Kaseido Quandry: hi muhammed
[12:01] Micael Khandr: alekom sallam
[12:01] Rose Springvale: hello everyone. Delia is on her way, trying to actually rez.
[12:01] Callipygian Christensen: Hi everyone..excuse me while I relog and try to uncloud myself
[12:02] Rose Springvale: My time got away from me this week, so the FAQ i had hoped to do i just finished a bit ago… I’d like to recognize that Arria volunteered to read them for me for clarity, but has not had that opportunity yet. A draft is in the notecard givver if you’d like to see the start
[12:02] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[12:02] Rose Springvale: let me also remind you all that all our meetings, this one included, are recorded and transcripted on the CDS forums
[12:03] Rose Springvale: i’d like to welcome you all here. and look forward to your questions.
[12:04] Rose Springvale: This was intended to be an opportunity for the CDS representative assembly to clarify the relationship of VDI, the owner of the AA sims, with CDS. But not a voting meeting.
[12:04] Kaseido Quandry: hi Delia!
[12:05] Micael Khandr: Let’s plan to e3nd at 1 pm
[12:05] Micael Khandr: end
[12:05] Micael Khandr: so everyone knows the schedule
[12:05] Delia Lake: hi everyone. sorry for being late. i just finished giving a rl webinar
[12:05] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:05] Rose Springvale: of course there will be people around longer if there is a need. Hi delia
[12:06] Rose Springvale: delia, there is a notecard with basic info in the notecard giver on the table
[12:06] Micael Khandr: Great–I will need to leave for RL at 1 p.m.
[12:06] Rose Springvale: thanks for taking the time to be here.
[12:06] Micael Khandr: So, shall we start with questions from anyone here?
[12:06] Rose Springvale: Let me introduce Micael .. who is the Executive Director of VDI
[12:06] Rose Springvale: and Delia who is the newly elected treasurer.
[12:06] Micael Khandr: I think I know almost everyone.
[12:06] Micael Khandr:
[12:07] Rose Springvale: So questions from the RA members first please?
[12:07] Timo Gufler raises hand
[12:07] Micael Khandr: Timo
[12:07] Rose Springvale: or anything you’d like repsonse to. Thanks. Timo?
[12:07] Timo Gufler: What is role of the VDI board? What does it decide?
[12:07] Rose Springvale: Micael, do you want to take that?
[12:07] Micael Khandr: The notecard summarizes that Timo.
[12:08] Micael Khandr: But in general, it is to promote the development of virtual democracy.
[12:08] Micael Khandr: It can be here in SL, or in other virtual worlds
[12:08] Timo Gufler: How is the VDI board elected?
[12:08] Delia Lake: the board runs the rl company VDI
[12:09] Rose Springvale: for now, Timo, the board consists of the three of us. The merger agreement provides that CDS can appoint more members. That is up to CDS to determing
[12:09] Micael Khandr: We bgan with the us, and we haven’t gotten to the place f elections yet for the other members of the board
[12:10] Rose Springvale: Like many non profit boards, mostly volunteers are needed
[12:10] Rose Springvale: and to volunteer, all you need to do is talk to us
[12:10] Timo Gufler: I suppose only those, who are citizens of United States can belong to the board
[12:10] Rose Springvale: no
[12:10] Rose Springvale: anyone anywhere can be on the board
[12:10] Micael Khandr: Texas covers the whole world, right Rose?
[12:10] Delia Lake: who else will join the board will depend to some degree on the merger finalization
[12:11] Rose Springvale: but we will need real life identities .. that’s the catch.
[12:11] Micael Khandr: because it is a RL organization
[12:11] Rose Springvale: we have real life reporting requirements. The three of us have volunteered in our real life capacities
[12:11] Delia Lake: there are many nonprofits in rl that have people from different countries on their boards
[12:12] Micael Khandr: and the development of this non-profit evolved out of the original non-profit control of AA
[12:13] Timo Gufler: how can RA enforce it’s decisions to the VDI?
[12:13] Micael Khandr: I’m interested in this because of my interest in how to teach and experience democracy in real life through SL
[12:13] Rose Springvale: actually that’s the easy part Timo
[12:13] Timo Gufler: is it?
[12:13] Rose Springvale: VDI would not have any hand in the day to day operations of the sims
[12:14] Rose Springvale: if VDI remains the estate owner, then there would be a contract between VDI and CDS to do that
[12:14] Arria Perreault: I would like to know the exact role of VDI in CDS? Is this role restricted to the role of Estate owner?
[12:14] Rose Springvale: so VDI doesn’t even really need to know the RA decisions…
[12:14] Rose Springvale: yes Arria, thanks.
[12:14] Delia Lake: VDI is legally the estate owner of the 6 AA sims
[12:15] Timo Gufler: who would the EO be in practice? one of the members of the VDI board?
[12:15] Rose Springvale: VDI is ONLY the estate owner
[12:15] Rose Springvale: preferably the named avatar would be Rudeen
[12:15] Timo Gufler: who would control Rudeen?
[12:15] Rose Springvale: but Linden Labs will only accept a named avata attached to a credit card.
[12:15] Rose Springvale: same as always timo
[12:16] Rose Springvale: or it would be whoever else CDS would name, who can qualify
[12:16] Timo Gufler: so, does RA decide the EO?
[12:16] Rose Springvale: VDI is the EO
[12:16] Timo Gufler: what does that mean?
[12:16] Rose Springvale: RA can decide the named avatar, but do be aware that there are most likely fees associated with changes in the avatar
[12:16] Delia Lake: LL makes a distinction with 2 kinds of EO’s
[12:17] Delia Lake: 1 is a single person who owns a private sim
[12:17] Delia Lake: the 5 original CDS sims are single person owner private sims
[12:17] Delia Lake: the EO is the owner of those sims
[12:17] Delia Lake: the 2nd kind is nonprofit corporation
[12:18] Delia Lake: in this kind of nonprofit ownership
[12:18] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Are there shareholders that elect the board?
[12:18] Kaseido Quandry: hey Trebor
[12:18] Rose Springvale: no, there are no shareholers muhammed, it is a public charity
[12:18] Delia Lake: the corporation is the owner and the EO is a representative of the corporation but not the sim owner
[12:18] Arria Perreault: The Estate Owner Act sais: “The EO shall be a citizen of a sim within the CDS and shall be appointed by a majority vote of the SC. An EO may serve for one sim or multiple sims.”
[12:18] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[12:19] Trebor Warcliffe: Hi
[12:19] Arria Perreault: Our law don’t take in account the second type of EO
[12:19] Rose Springvale: that’s why the SC is reviewing that
[12:19] Arria Perreault: VDI cannot be a citizen
[12:19] Arria Perreault: but the RA has to vote the amendment of this law
[12:19] Arria Perreault: ?
[12:20] Rose Springvale: i would think so, yes Arria
[12:20] Delia Lake: LL contracts take precedent over CDS law regarding sim ownership. sim ownership is by contract with LL
[12:20] Timo Gufler: since the VDI is the EO, in other words, it would have power to make a decision to sell the sims, right?
[12:20] muhammedyussif Wikinger: What is the personal risk to be a boardmember?
[12:20] Rose Springvale: for latecomers, there is a notecard in the cds box ont he table.
[12:21] Micael Khandr: I think the EO always has the right to sell the sims–
[12:21] Delia Lake: for instance, the RA or for that matter a binding referendum vot e of the CDS citizenry could not replace the EO of CN, making say Timo the EO instead of Rudeen
[12:21] Micael Khandr: Right now, Sudane could sell the CDS sims
[12:21] Rose Springvale: Timo, All actions of the corporation are governed by the board. If VDI contracted with CDS, they would not have the legal power to make changes without taking to the whole board
[12:22] Rose Springvale: and then would be subject to liability if they did
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: where is the lawyer FOR CDS
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: why are we here with no laywyer of our own
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we have money to pay one.
[12:22] Rose Springvale: there is no lawyer here for anyone, this is an information meeting.
[12:22] Delia Lake: the EO of a private sim has the right to sell. but the EO of a sim granted nonprofit status is not the sim owner according to LL policy
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you are a lawyer
[12:22] Rose Springvale: i don’t represent anyone here
[12:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and we don’t have our own, i think that is unethical of you
[12:22] Micael Khandr: And I’m a teacher
[12:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Is EO executive officer?
[12:23] Rose Springvale: we are not in litigation Cleo, there isn’t an ethical issue here
[12:23] Rose Springvale: estate owner
[12:23] Micael Khandr: estate owner
[12:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yah well i think there is rose
[12:23] Trebor Warcliffe: Tu
[12:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: a big one .. many of them
[12:23] Arria Perreault: can the SC decide to change the EO of the old sims and to give them to VDI?
[12:23] Rose Springvale: muhammed, you asked about lega responsibilies of the board
[12:23] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[12:23] Rose Springvale: that’s a pretty big topic, let me get you some independent information on that and post links if i may
[12:24] Delia Lake: no, the SC cannot do that dispite what the CDS law says
[12:24] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[12:24] Rose Springvale: basic duty of care, and just shy of fiduciary
[12:24] Delia Lake: Sudane is the legal owner of the CDS sims. they can ONLY be transfered by her
[12:25] Rose Springvale: and they can only be transferred to someone who accepts them
[12:25] Timo Gufler: who would be the contracting parties in the contract between the VDI and the CDS? people in the CDS come and go… should we renew the control after each term?
[12:25] Timo Gufler: *contract
[12:25] Rose Springvale: not necessary Timo
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: As a citizen i call that CDS get a lawyer to represent it in this merger!! its an outrage and i think very unethical of rose not to demand it.
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: can ispeak to you rBAR association abou it rose
[12:25] Rose Springvale: the Contract goes between the legal representative of CDS and the Executive director of VDI
[12:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: who o do i call
[12:26] Rose Springvale: that would be Sonja and Micael
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: texas bar
[12:26] Micael Khandr: Cleo–this is an information meeting only
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: about your doing this without suggesting we get a rep
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: no the merger itself
[12:26] Rose Springvale: you are more than welcome to Cleo.
[12:26] Timo Gufler: so, let’s say, that Arria was the chancellor, would she be the contractor from the CDS side?
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: The texas BAR association??
[12:26] Rose Springvale: yep
[12:26] Kaseido Quandry: CLEO, the merger was signed a year ago – and Jamie, a lawyer, represented CDS
[12:26] Rose Springvale: but Timo
[12:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Jamie is Roses puppet
[12:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: he hardly represents CDS
[12:27] Rose Springvale: as in any contract, it will go on unless it terminates or is changed by the parties … changes in personel won’t affect it
[12:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: we need an unbiased lawyer to represent our rights as CDS citizens
[12:27] Pip Torok: we didnt merge 12 months ago, Kas ….
[12:27] Rose Springvale: folks
[12:27] Pip Torok: it was a _trial_
[12:27] Rose Springvale: can we focus on the topic please?
[12:27] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: Rose, what more control do you need, hun?
[12:27] Kaseido Quandry: no, it was a binding contract with a termination option, Pip
[12:28] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Are there majority decisions in the board?
[12:28] Micael Khandr: This is an imformation session regarding VDI
[12:28] Rose Springvale: are there more questions about the non profit?
[12:28] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: yes ask a judge to rule on viirtual land
[12:28] Pip Torok: exactly …. an option …. remember that
[12:28] Rose Springvale: pip, do you have a question?
[12:28] Rose Springvale: as a member of both projects?
[12:28] Pip Torok: to Kas and its answered
[12:29] Pip Torok: remind me of the projects …
[12:29] Rose Springvale: AA and CDS
[12:29] Pip Torok: ah
[12:29] Kaseido Quandry wishes we could get back to Timo’s and muhammad’s excellent and constructive questions
[12:29] Rose Springvale: sees arria typing, wonders if it is lag …
[12:29] Trebor Warcliffe: Being a non-profit where do the proceeds from the day to day operations go, back into the SIMS?
[12:29] Timo Gufler raises his hand again
[12:30] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: antonius welcome
[12:30] Arria Perreault: I will ask a frank question, the question that everyone has. it was told several times that a non-profit is a good solution for the role of EO and that it solves several issues. Now it is clear that many people don’t want to see VDI plays this role for the whole CDS. My question is: would VDI accept to own the old CDS sims if any decision is made either in the RA or in the SC?
[12:30] Pip Torok: yes … will a designated member of the RA have a permanent place on the VDI board?
[12:30] Pip Torok: and if noty, why not?
[12:30] Rose Springvale: thanks Trebor. All the proceeds are collected by CDS. the bills are paid by CDS. there is no provision for any money to come back to VDI
[12:30] Rose Springvale: Arria, thanks. let me make sure i’ve got Trebor’s question answered
[12:31] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:31] Rose Springvale: Did i answer you Trebor?
[12:31] Trebor Warcliffe: I believe so, thank you
[12:31] Rose Springvale: good. Delia, are you addressing Arria’s q?
[12:31] Delia Lake: Arria, the ownership of the CDS sims can only change if Sudane wants to change them. The RA and or the SC cannot demand that the CDS sims change ownership
[12:31] muhammedyussif Wikinger: If 5 more volotaires entered the board will the make a majority?
[12:32] Pip Torok: Will you answer my question Rose? yes … will a designated member of the RA have a permanent place on the VDI board? One there _as of right_?
[12:32] Micael Khandr: a majority of 8?
[12:32] Rose Springvale: As to accepting the CDS sims… that’s a question that would be up to the RA, and the board.
[12:32] Rose Springvale: as soon as we have answered Arrias
[12:33] muhammedyussif Wikinger: if 5 new can take over the present 3 ?
[12:33] Rose Springvale: since the board of VDI is made up of people from these projects, i can’t imagine a case where it would be turned down… but that’s something we can’t decide
[12:33] Pip Torok: why not?
[12:34] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: why on earth would CDS want to give our sims to a non profit board in texas.. why?
[12:34] Rose Springvale: if you are asking if a simple majority of the RA could effectuate a transfer, the answer would be no.
[12:34] Timo Gufler: What if Arria was the contracting part from the CDS and the VDI broke the contract… what could she do? I guess, it would be very difficult for her to sue the VDI in the US…
[12:34] Rose Springvale: Pip, the VDI board is a real life board of individuals who commit to three year terms. RA terms are six months. not sure how that would work
[12:34] Kaseido Quandry: not nearly as hard as for us to sue Sudane, Timo.
[12:35] Rose Springvale: Timo
[12:35] Kaseido Quandry: whoever she may be, whereever she may be
[12:35] Rose Springvale: not sure why we’d go to all this trouble to ‘break” the deal. but lets follow your logic
[12:35] muhammedyussif Wikinger: A chilenian dictator was sued fron Spain
[12:35] Pip Torok: The RA would find some way … it IS in CDS’ interest for them to find a way
[12:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: how many people can be on the board, what is the limit??
[12:35] Micael Khandr: We have 25 minutes left in the formal information session btw
[12:35] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: the maximum
[12:35] Arria Perreault: and can the SC decides this transfer?
[12:36] Arria Perreault: Delia?
[12:36] Delia Lake: the SC cannot decide this transfer
[12:36] Pip Torok: why not, Delia?
[12:36] Delia Lake: only Sudane can make a transfer of the CDS sims. ONLY Sudane
[12:36] Pip Torok: ah
[12:36] Kaseido Quandry: because the SC has no legal status as owenr of the sims
[12:36] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: so VDI controls the RA via the LRA and the SC via delia.. and ..
[12:37] Delia Lake: LL policy recognizes only 1 single owner of private sims
[12:37] Kaseido Quandry: Sudane owns them, Sudane only can sell them
[12:37] Rose Springvale: i think that kind of action would go like this… RA votes… chancellor vetos
[12:37] Solomon Mosely: doesnt the VDi board take it’s lead from the cds RA or cds exec?
[12:37] Delia Lake: for the CDS sims that is Sudane. ONLY Sudane
[12:37] Rose Springvale: and let me just say… on our behalf .. the three of us
[12:37] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: cindy is in AA.. so no one in CDS has any control of our sims
[12:37] Trebor Warcliffe: So techniclly Sudane is the owner of the SIMS and if the merger happens ownership would be transferred to the nonprofit VDI?
[12:37] Timo Gufler: Sudane has been a trustworthy lady
[12:37] Rose Springvale: no trebor
[12:37] Delia Lake: she certainly has, Timo
[12:38] Pip Torok: (and long has it been so)
[12:38] Rose Springvale: sudane owns the five original sims
[12:38] Rose Springvale: vdi owns the 6 aa sims
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: ok
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: oooh ok
[12:38] Rose Springvale: after the merger, it stays that way, unless CDS creates it’s own non profit
[12:38] Trebor Warcliffe: tu for the clarification
[12:38] Rose Springvale: which would look very much like VDI
[12:38] Delia Lake: and I have no reason to believe that Sudane would be anything other than responsble as she has been in the past
[12:38] Pip Torok: UNLESS!!!!! …..
[12:38] Rose Springvale: The merger agreement also provides that CDS and the chancellor would serve on the board.
[12:39] Rose Springvale: pip?
[12:39] Solomon Mosely: still we should take it out of one set of hands anyway
[12:39] Solomon Mosely: she could get hit by a bus
[12:39] Trebor Warcliffe: Why would the CDS have to start their own non profit. Why not become a part of VDI?
[12:39] Pip Torok: no way, sol
[12:39] Yekaterina Kalchek: /
[12:39] Solomon Mosely: yesss way
[12:39] Rose Springvale: Trebor, its just an option
[12:39] Yekaterina Kalchek: Yopurs?
[12:39] Yekaterina Kalchek: Yopurs ؟
[12:39] Arria Perreault: what happens in expansion project? will the SC decide who is the estate owner for each new sim?
[12:39] Rose Springvale: they can’t become part of vdi
[12:39] Kaseido Quandry: We have full faith in our anonymous overlords
[12:39] Pip Torok: Trebor … would you give your heritage away?
[12:40] Rose Springvale: that’s a good question ARria, but i think that is RA responsibility
[12:40] Solomon Mosely: heritage?
[12:40] Rose Springvale: based on the purpose of the sim i think
[12:40] Pip Torok: speak for yourself KAS-come-lately
[12:40] Solomon Mosely: lol
[12:40] Arria Perreault: le EO Act sayis it is the SC
[12:40] Kaseido Quandry laughs. “ooo, burn!”
[12:40] Trebor Warcliffe: Pip no I wouldnt but at the same time i would want to do what’s best to grow and prosper as a community.
[12:40] Solomon Mosely: yes, pip grew up here in these hills
[12:40] Rose Springvale: order please
[12:40] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: touche rose you won , you took over CDS by your lawschool tricks, took you years.. but .. whooo you should be so proud of yourself
[12:40] Pip Torok: i undertand, trebor
[12:40] Rose Springvale: Arria, that act should be something we look at i think.
[12:41] Arria Perreault: if I read our law, VDI cannot be an EO now
[12:41] Micael Khandr: in CDS?
[12:41] Rose Springvale: the whole EO act is a bit out of date… we’ve come a long way as CDS since that was drafted
[12:41] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:41] Arria Perreault: it is the current law
[12:41] Pip Torok: why is it outofdate? …
[12:41] Rose Springvale: so is the merger agreement
[12:42] Arria Perreault: Quote: 1). The EO shall be a citizen of a sim within the CDS and shall be appointed by a majority vote of the SC. An EO may serve for one sim or multiple sims.
[12:42] Solomon Mosely: so, to sum up: VDI does not and can not “take over” the cds sims
[12:42] Rose Springvale: so we have a discrepancy in our laws
[12:42] Micael Khandr: So that would need to change if the desire was to have a non-profit as EO
[12:42] Delia Lake: our CDS law is out of compliance with LL policy. LL policy takes precedence over CDS law as LL owns SL
[12:42] Rose Springvale: right solomon. nor would it want to
[12:42] Pip Torok: who says its outofdate never say why
[12:42] Rose Springvale: delia just did pip
[12:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: CDS NEEDS ITS OWN LAWYER>> why wouldnt she want you to have one!!!!! think people.
[12:42] Pip Torok: ?
[12:42] Timo Gufler: who knows, what the board wants?
[12:42] Kaseido Quandry faceplams
[12:42] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: this is a very unfair fight and you know it rose.
[12:42] Rose Springvale: sorry timo… can you be more specific? what board?
[12:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: you should be so so ashamed of yourself rose.
[12:43] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: how sad
[12:43] Micael Khandr: Please be civil at this meeting, Cleo.
[12:43] Delia Lake: Pip, i have a question for you. you said that you didn’t want to give up your/our heritage. could you say more about what you mean by that?
[12:43] Timo Gufler: who knows, what the VDI board would like to do… what it want depends on, who sit on the board…
[12:44] Solomon Mosely looks for the “drop chair through floor” button
[12:44] Rose Springvale: would you like to join us timo?
[12:44] Rose Springvale: right now
[12:44] Timo Gufler: I can’t answer that question right now
[12:44] Rose Springvale: VDI exists only because the conversations on the CDS forum caused the former non profit to ‘disown” AA
[12:44] Rose Springvale: we had to choose whether to let it die, or create a new nonprofit
[12:45] Rose Springvale: we were well into negotiations with CDS
[12:45] Rose Springvale: and felt that to let it die wasn’t fair to anyone
[12:45] Solomon Mosely: doesn’t merger agreement state that the VDI board takes it’s orders from the cds leadership?
[12:45] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘Draft Q & A, VDI’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[12:45] Delia Lake: and what the VDI board does or does not do is limited by the nonprofit charter (rl) granted to the company
[12:45] Delia Lake: it cannot just go out and do “anything”
[12:45] Solomon Mosely: right….
[12:46] Rose Springvale: actually solomon, the merger agreement assumed CDS would create a non profit
[12:46] Timo Gufler: really?
[12:46] Solomon Mosely: is everyone actually reading the agreement and the VDI bylaws now?
[12:46] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:46] Solomon Mosely: oh yea, how did we miss that?
[12:46] Timo Gufler: we are not lawyers…
[12:47] Solomon Mosely: no, but most of us speak english
[12:47] Rose Springvale: vdi is willing to accomodate and contract with cds… because its an expensive and tedious process
[12:47] Trebor Warcliffe: Can ui have a copy of the VDI bylaws please
[12:47] Delia Lake: from the VDI articles of incorporation…
[12:47] Delia Lake: The Corporation is organized exclusively for cultural and educational purposes as defined in Section 501(c) (3) of the Internal Revenue Code. These activities will include, but not be limited to, creating democratic communities in virtual worlds, exploring historical democratic societies and teaching democratic structures through information and educationa presentations and discussions, and the applying democratic principles to governance of virtual communities. The corporation may engage in all such activities that further these purposes.
[12:47] Solomon Mosely: as does the text ofthe documents
[12:47] Rose Springvale: trebor, they are posted, let me send you the link
[12:47] Arria Perreault: What is the impact of the purpouse of VDI? I know it cannot be changed. It was not discussed in the community. Will some activities like commerce be restricted?
[12:47] Rose Springvale: good question Arria
[12:48] Rose Springvale: The project that was submitted and approved by both LL and the IRS was the creation of democratic communities in virtual worlds
[12:48] Arria Perreault: IRS?
[12:48] Rose Springvale: communities include commerce, culture, residences, streets.. ets.
[12:48] Micael Khandr: Tax people
[12:48] Rose Springvale: IRS= Internal Revenu Service… the ones who decide on our charity status
[12:48] Rose Springvale: One thing no one has touched on is the potential to apply for outside grants
[12:49] Pip Torok: assume d? … who assumed the CDS wd become nonprofit?
[12:49] Rose Springvale: which is a great benefit that a non profit has over just a group of people.
[12:49] Rose Springvale: there are many sources of funding that we can explore
[12:49] Delia Lake: the 5 original CDS sims do not have to become nonprofit
[12:49] Trebor Warcliffe: I was wondering about that Rose. By becoming a non profit corporation it can open many RL doors.
[12:50] Pip Torok: see Arria’s Forum post about how derisory the nonprofit tier difference wd be
[12:50] Delia Lake: it can and does, Trebor
[12:50] Rose Springvale: Pip, here is the language from the merger agreement; . A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: Delia that’s where I’m having a little trouble understanding.
[12:50] Rose Springvale: we are too Trebor
[12:50] Trebor Warcliffe: Why 2 non-profits?
[12:51] Rose Springvale: no need for two
[12:51] Pip Torok: nonprofit means LOSS of control , a meaningless democracy, for the price of the tier-difference
[12:51] Arria Perreault: yes, money is not a sufficient reason: some of our sims are not at normal price
[12:51] Delia Lake: loss of what control, Pip?
[12:51] Solomon Mosely: where do you get this pip?
[12:51] Pip Torok: fro Arria’s Forum post
[12:51] Rose Springvale: AA is an educational project
[12:51] Rose Springvale: it is not just about money
[12:51] Yekaterina Kalchek: I fail to see any logic in that remark Pip
[12:51] Yekaterina Kalchek: ولا أستطيع أن أرى أي منطق في هذا التصريح النواة
[12:51] Micael Khandr: But CDS is already “controlled” by a single EO–the idea that the democracy is completely in charge is an illusion in SL
[12:52] Yekaterina Kalchek: Ooops sorry
[12:52] Kaseido Quandry: *thank you* Micael
[12:52] Arria Perreault: My opinion is the following: a good strategy would be to have several EO in CDS. It will decrease the risks.
[12:52] Delia Lake: Pip, what control do you have now that you believe you could potentially loose?
[12:52] Trebor Warcliffe: Good point Michel
[12:52] Pip Torok: then you kick the whole basis of what we do here, micael
[12:52] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, that’s a good point
[12:52] Arria Perreault: we will have two EO and why not a third one
[12:52] Timo Gufler: Interesting point, yes, Arria…
[12:52] Carolyn Saarinen: Blame LL for that Pip
[12:53] Micael Khandr: I’m not “kicking” anyone–just stating the reality
[12:53] Pip Torok: the power that the Constitution gives us, Delia
[12:53] Rose Springvale: i think that is what the original lawy intended Arria
[12:53] Arria Perreault: yes, exactly, Rose
[12:53] Rose Springvale: that it wouldn’t all be on one person.
[12:53] Pip Torok: Reality? thats machtPolitik Micael …
[12:53] Carolyn Saarinen: If CDS is going to have multiple EOs the only way for that to work is for CDS to form or join a non-profit. LL wnot recognise it any other way.
[12:54] Pip Torok: nonsense Caro
[12:54] Delia Lake: the CDS constitution governs us as a community of choice–which is what the CDS is. the CDS Constitution is not binding on LL
[12:54] Carolyn Saarinen: Pip, Delia explained the two types of EO acceptable to LL earlier
[12:54] Timo Gufler: I will leave now. Thanks for the meeting.
[12:54] Timo Gufler: bye
[12:54] Kaseido Quandry: But Pip could buy his own sim, join it to the CDS and continue as owner of it only – no problem
[12:54] Rose Springvale: we are all speculating now. Thank you for coming Timo
[12:54] Micael Khandr: YW, Timo
[12:54] Yekaterina Kalchek: Bye Timo
[12:55] Delia Lake: at this time those are the only EO categories that LL recognizes
[12:55] Arria Perreault: EO have an administrative role only. The law says also that they cannot have an other position in CDS
[12:55] Arria Perreault: bye Timo
[12:55] Micael Khandr: we have about 5 minutes of the formal meeting time left, btw
[12:55] Pip Torok: no … its an interface … from LL’s side one owner pays tier for the sims … from CDS side,tier is paid to a Treasurer who happens to be LL’s EO
[12:55] Arria Perreault: I agree we have to review this law
[12:55] Solomon Mosely: must run. rose, thank you for doing this to put an end to the flod of mis-information and fer mongering. i hope this clears things up for everyone and we can all move forward
[12:55] Rose Springvale: thank you for coming solomon
[12:56] Micael Khandr: TY, Sol
[12:56] Pip Torok: Sol … I’m against the _causes_ of fear
[12:56] Solomon Mosely: oh, and my man craig is performing at sl7b at 1 hope you can all make itto the main stage
[12:56] Arria Perreault: a last question: what are the incomes of VDI and how are the finances of VDI manages? Are the financial informations publi?
[12:56] Solomon Mosely: plug!
[12:56] Delia Lake: NL 5-6 Estate Owner Act is posted on the SC discussion section of the Forum. this weekend I will post a set of LL policy links as well
[12:56] Rose Springvale: yes Arria. VDI has only one asset, the AA estates
[12:56] Yekaterina Kalchek: Thank you Delia
[12:57] Rose Springvale: All the tier for the AA estates goes to Rudeen
[12:57] Rose Springvale: All the bills also go to rudeen
[12:57] Rose Springvale: all VDI information is public, and available for anyone to see
[12:57] Pip Torok: “until2 such time when a majority hands over the rest to VDI … a habndover that will be one-way
[12:57] Rose Springvale: If we get grants, those will be subject to scrutiny as well
[12:57] Kaseido Quandry: (and *must* be, by state and federeal law)
[12:57] Delia Lake: hands over what, Pip?
[12:58] Rose Springvale: I’d like to say somethign if i may
[12:58] Pip Torok: the nonprofit sims
[12:58] Rose Springvale: a year ago, all the AA sims were “mine”
[12:58] Pip Torok: no … the non-nonprofit sims
[12:58] Rose Springvale: that include the value of the land, the value of the buidings.
[12:58] Rose Springvale: 4 of those sims were my personal assets that i transfered directly to AA
[12:59] Rose Springvale: then i transfered ALL 6 of the sims to VDI
[12:59] Rose Springvale: it was a gift
[12:59] Rose Springvale: that gift was intended to be handed to CDS
[12:59] Rose Springvale: i get nothing out of it at all
[12:59] Kaseido Quandry: what was the approximate dollar value of your own money, Rose?
[12:59] Rose Springvale: about 10000 Usd
[13:00] Rose Springvale: i have no desire to run this project
[13:00] Rose Springvale: i have no desire to run AA
[13:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: oh dear
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: That’s substantial.
[13:00] Rose Springvale: but i do wish to see the projects continue
[13:00] StuiChicanne Darkstone: that’s more than I earn in a year
[13:00] Rose Springvale: so all this takeover talk is silly
[13:00] Pip Torok: as we have no desire to see the CDS-portions become nonprofit …. but we have no guarantee …
[13:00] Rose Springvale: if i wanted to be in charge, why bother with mergers?
[13:00] Trebor Warcliffe: So your reasoning to do what you did was to see the concept of the CDS grow?
[13:01] Rose Springvale: I have served CDS for many years now, and i am personally hurt that so many of you are willing to attribute bad motives to me
[13:01] Pip Torok: with respect Rose, it does not prove it
[13:01] Delia Lake: to see the concept of building workable virtual democracy grow
[13:01] Carolyn Saarinen whispers: fucking hell
[13:01] Kaseido Quandry: nor do your empty and ignorant accusations, Pip.
[13:01] Micael Khandr: Thank you for sharing this info, Rose. I am going to close the formal information meeting now
[13:01] Kaseido Quandry: that street runs both ways.
[13:01] Rose Springvale: thanks Micael.
[13:01] Kaseido Quandry: thank you Micael
[13:02] Micael Khandr: Those who can stay longer, are welcome to do so.

Permalink.

RA Meeting 11 July 2010

Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 11, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:29 am
[9:01] Rose Springvale: Thank you all for being here today, i know everyone is busy and i appreciate you taking the time for the government of CDS
[9:01] Rose Springvale: We’ll come to order now, and open to floor to the citizens.
[9:02] Rose Springvale: smiles at Trebor…
[9:02] Trebor Warcliffe: Thank you Rose, I have no questions at the moment.
[9:02] Lilith Ivory: Hi Pip
[9:02] Rose Springvale: i’ll remind everyone that CDS meetings are recorded and transcripted, so if you speak, it will be recorded
[9:02] Rose Springvale: hello pip
[9:02] Sonja Strom: Hi Pip
[9:03] Pip Torok: hi Rose, Sonja
[9:03] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Gwyn
[9:03] Lilith Ivory: Hi Tor
[9:03] Trebor Warcliffe: Hi Tor
[9:03] Tor Karlsvalt: hi kas, Cindy, pip rose and pat
[9:03] Rose Springvale: today’s agenda and the recommendations of the communications commission are in the box on the table, so if you want to look those over, just touch the box
[9:03] Rose Springvale: hello tor
[9:04] Sonja Strom: hi Tor
[9:04] Rose Springvale: anyone have general community concerns we can talk about now?
[9:04] Kaseido Quandry: hi Tor!
[9:05] Lilith Ivory wonders if she is still here as nobody responds to her greetings
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: awwww Lilith
[9:05] Lilith Ivory: ah ok I´m here
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello and sorry!
[9:05] Pip Torok: hi LILITH!!!
[9:05] Lilith Ivory: ty Gwyn hehe
[9:05] Rose Springvale: hi LILITH!
[9:05] Kaseido Quandry:
[9:05] Sonja Strom: hi Gwyneth
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, is it worth discussing the overall committees’ work?
[9:05] Lilith Ivory: I´m used to crashes without my knowing
[9:05] Patroklus Murakami: HI LILITH! sorry
[9:06] Kaseido Quandry won’t wear overalls, no matter what the committee says
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers* @ Kas
[9:06] Rose Springvale: well, we have that all on the agenda Gwyn, but if you have general comments, sure. and kas, you’d look cute in them!
[9:06] Arria Perreault: hi all
[9:06] Kaseido Quandry: aww, thanks Rose! :p
[9:06] Lilith Ivory has some cute overalls
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:06] Rose Springvale: you do!
[9:07] Arria Perreault: i am connected with my iphone
[9:07] Rose Springvale: wow, welcome Arria!
[9:07] Tor Karlsvalt: great Arria, is that a new iPhone 4?
[9:07] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Sol
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:07] Lilith Ivory: hi Arria, Hi Sol
[9:07] Solomon Mosely: hi guys
[9:07] Arria Perreault: no
[9:07] Rose Springvale: Hi solomon, we are in the Concerns of citizens section for 8 more minutes
[9:08] Solomon Mosely: great, thank you
[9:08] Rose Springvale: we’ll be patient arria, that iphone keyboard is a challenge
[9:08] Tor Karlsvalt: not too many citizens here
[9:08] Solomon Mosely: kind of a slow day, huh?
[9:08] Pip Torok: we cd ask Trebor how he’s faring ?
[9:08] Tor Karlsvalt: i have talked to a few.
[9:08] Rose Springvale: well, it is mid summer… lot of people are traveling. SL has been pretty quiet lately
[9:09] Trebor Warcliffe: Doing well thank you.
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Pretty quiet” hmm
[9:09] Trebor Warcliffe: More here for observation today in between doing RL accounting homework.
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: riiiight
[9:09] Pip Torok: good … i like yr build btw
[9:09] Trebor Warcliffe: The one I purchased in CN?
[9:09] Rose Springvale: smiles at gwyn. notes the exception!
[9:09] Patroklus Murakami: i have a question if i may?
[9:09] Pip Torok: the very same
[9:09] Tor Karlsvalt: I know one citizen inqured about the status of building a new sim
[9:10] Rose Springvale: sure Pat
[9:10] Arria Perreault: i willl move my ipad now
[9:10] Patroklus Murakami: has the RA meeting to consider the merger been set yet?
[9:10] Rose Springvale: it isn’t on the agenda, but the time for it is between july 22 and july 29
[9:11] Solomon Mosely: is thAt still an issue?
[9:11] Pip Torok: it is Solomon
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: i think we should set it in advance so ppl know when it will come up
[9:11] Patroklus Murakami: *well* in advance
[9:11] Rose Springvale: well, its been on the schedule for a year but what would you like to suggest
[9:11] Rose Springvale: ?
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: let’s set a date for the RA meeting which will vote on the merger
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: we may need to modify the 7-day vote rule too
[9:12] Rose Springvale: i think we can leave it on the regular rotation so long as it happens on or before July 22.
[9:12] Solomon Mosely: pat, why are you so afraid of the merger?
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: ok. that works
[9:12] Solomon Mosely: i still dont get this
[9:12] Patroklus Murakami: i’m not sol
[9:12] Pip Torok: I dont understand you, Solomon
[9:13] Solomon Mosely: ok, what are you calling it then?
[9:13] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: i just asked when the vote would be. that’s all
[9:13] Rose Springvale: maybe the personal opinions can be explored privately?
[9:13] Solomon Mosely: of course
[9:13] Patroklus Murakami: it may well be a foregone conclusion but…. we still need to hold the vote
[9:13] Pip Torok: agree
[9:13] Rose Springvale: thanks Solomon
[9:13] Solomon Mosely: well no
[9:13] Solomon Mosely: if we dont vote against it, it goes on
[9:14] Arria Perreault: I have a concern. like other poeple I have deeply regretted that Aris
[9:14] Arria Perreault: a
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we *do* hold a vote so that it is on record
[9:14] Solomon Mosely: and it’s a point we already voted on in your referendum
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: and the CDS makes a choice
[9:14] Solomon Mosely: we did
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Pat
[9:14] Solomon Mosely: thanks to your referendum
[9:14] Rose Springvale: it will be on the agenda then Pat, no worries
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: ty rose
[9:14] Solomon Mosely: or have you chosen to forget all that?
[9:14] Rose Springvale: Arria, what would you like to discuss about that?
[9:14] Arria Perreault: that Arias decided to leave.
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: no sol. not forgotten
[9:14] Arria Perreault: tes
[9:14] Pip Torok: I dont understand you, Solomon
[9:14] Rose Springvale: i note he is still a land owner and still on the forums this morning
[9:15] Solomon Mosely: just ignored, got it
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Arias has not left
[9:15] Rose Springvale: gentleman, thanks
[9:15] Rose Springvale: lets move to Arria’s concern?
[9:15] Solomon Mosely: kk
[9:15] Patroklus Murakami: grow up sol
[9:15] Rose Springvale: and then we’ll get started on the meeting.
[9:15] Arria Perreault: i was away this week end
[9:15] Rose Springvale: Arias owns quite a bit of land in CDS and has set some for sale i believe
[9:15] Rose Springvale: maybe you can chat with him personally?
[9:16] Rose Springvale: our 15 minutes are up, so lets move to the formal agenda
[9:16] Rose Springvale: as i said earlier, copies are in the box on the table
[9:17] Rose Springvale: For administrative matters, we had two items from last meeting that went to 7 day vote
[9:17] Arria Perreault: i just would like to express my disapointment: I ask myself what does our community to retain valuable citizen with great projects
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Arias has not left
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: he has not set all his land for sale
[9:17] Rose Springvale: its a good question Arria, lets explore it
[9:17] Arria Perreault: he had great projects
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: nor had his grou[p
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: group
[9:18] Rose Springvale: we are on administrative matters now… we can take that issue up under concerns later, but lets keep on task if we can
[9:18] Arria Perreault: we have to encourage warmly such poeple, let them act and give to them good conditions
[9:18] Cindy Ecksol: That IS a good question, Arria.
[9:18] Pip Torok: But he has talked of other priorities, Tor
[9:18] Rose Springvale: one of the 7 day votes was the chancellor vote
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmh
[9:18] Tor Karlsvalt: fact is he has not left
[9:18] Arria Perreault: ok. we can take it on RA members concerns
[9:18] Cindy Ecksol: I’m thinking that Rose’s organization of commissions focused on specific issues is a good start to gettig people involved
[9:18] Pip Torok agrees with Arria
[9:18] Tor Karlsvalt: despite what has been posted to the forum
[9:18] Rose Springvale: we remain deadlocked, so Sonja will remain chancellor
[9:18] Rose Springvale: order please
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[9:19] Rose Springvale: the second 7 day vote was the creation of the commerce commission, which passed
[9:19] Rose Springvale: any other items to add to the agenda or can we proceed?
[9:19] Rose Springvale: i’ll take silence as assent
[9:19] Trebor Warcliffe: So because of the deadlock Sonja is the Chancellor for the next term?
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:20] Rose Springvale: yes
[9:20] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok understood
[9:20] Sonja Strom: For this term?
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: congrats. Sonja! (if you’re reading this)
[9:20] Rose Springvale: ununtil a new chancellor is elected, is my reading of the law
[9:20] Trebor Warcliffe: At least thats one thing that gets accomplished.
[9:21] Sonja Strom: Until a new Chancellor is elected?
[9:21] Trebor Warcliffe: I second the ???
[9:21] Rose Springvale: the law provides that the chancellor will give the RA montly reports, and sonja is here today to give her report. You have the floor Sonja
[9:21] Pip Torok: which is only at the starrt of a Term, as I understand it
[9:23] Rose Springvale: sonja are you here?
[9:23] Cindy Ecksol: doesn’t specify “the start of the term” Pip.
[9:24] Rose Springvale: Sonja has the floor folks
[9:24] Sonja Strom: Thank you Rose.
[9:24] Pip Torok: (tks, Cindy)
[9:24] Sonja Strom: We now have a new Public Information Officer, Anna Toussaint.
[9:25] Rose Springvale: applause!
[9:25] Kaseido Quandry cheers
[9:25] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[9:25] Lilith Ivory: applause
[9:25] Pip Torok: great!
[9:25] Sonja Strom claps
[9:25] Arria Perreault: great
[9:25] Arria Perreault: congratulations, Anna
[9:25] Pip Torok: and welcome, Anna
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and thanks for applying )
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: great news
[9:26] Sonja Strom: If you would like help coordinating an event, and especially with the promotion of it,
[9:26] Sonja Strom: of course you (or any citizen) can ask me for that, as always,
[9:27] Sonja Strom: but now you can also ask Anna for help.
[9:27] Sonja Strom: Our finances have been slowly improving over the last six months, and now we are again in the black,
[9:28] Sonja Strom: no longer in the red,
[9:28] Sonja Strom: which means that now we have some money we can spend
[9:28] Cindy Ecksol wonders when we were EVER in the red???
[9:28] Trebor Warcliffe: Do we have any accounts that are in delinquency that need to be addresed>
[9:29] Rose Springvale: lets let her report then take questions please
[9:29] Trebor Warcliffe: Ok sorry
[9:30] Sonja Strom: Yes, Cindy, the CDS was in the red for about six months during the term before I came to office as Chancellor and the first couple of months after I came to office.
[9:30] Sonja Strom: At that time we did talk about this in the RA.
[9:30] Rose Springvale: not what the treasury reports say .. but can we see the budget?
[9:31] Cindy Ecksol will ask more during questions
[9:31] Sonja Strom: Trebor, I know of no accounts that are in delinquency.
[9:31] Kaseido Quandry looks forward to reviewing the budget, and to Trebor’s input on it
[9:31] Sonja Strom: We always had a Reserve, so during that period we drew funds from the Reserve.
[9:32] Sonja Strom: Rose, do you want to have the current budget, or the overall reports?
[9:32] Cindy Ecksol raises her hand
[9:32] Rose Springvale: both please
[9:32] Sonja Strom: I will provide them.
[9:33] Sonja Strom: We have also had a series of events which have gone successfully,
[9:33] Sonja Strom: including the third birthday of Al Andalus
[9:33] Sonja Strom: With regard to the budget,
[9:34] Sonja Strom: I will begin with the current budget,
[9:34] Sonja Strom: and then if you want we can talk about the past however much you choose.
[9:34] Cindy Ecksol is wondering “WHAT current budget? none has been proposed for going on two terms, and none has been approved by RA!”
[9:35] Arria Perreault: the RA doesnt approve budget
[9:35] Sonja Strom: Cindy, there is no law that says the budget must be approved by the RA.
[9:35] Rose Springvale: please folks, lets let her present it to us
[9:36] Sonja Strom: The way the budget works is described by our Treasurer, Sudane Erato, here: http://picasaweb.google.com/sudane.erat … 6192117378
[9:36] Rose Springvale: wait
[9:36] Sonja Strom: If you will all look at those slides,
[9:36] Cindy Ecksol thinks “A budget developed by the Chancellor and not shared is a budget that does not exist”
[9:36] Rose Springvale: that’s process, not numbers…
[9:36] Rose Springvale: and not current.
[9:36] Rose Springvale: can we address this term please?
[9:37] Sonja Strom: Cindy, if you would like to propose a law that the budget must be approved by the RA,
[9:37] Sonja Strom: perhaps the RA could have such a discussion.
[9:37] Sonja Strom: But at the moment the budget is a function of the Executive Branch.
[9:37] Rose Springvale: i think the finance committee is working on that, but please, lets deal with here and now?
[9:38] Cindy Ecksol: AND…needs to be shared with the community or it is irrelevant!
[9:38] Sonja Strom: Rose, the finance committee is working on what?
[9:38] Rose Springvale: do we have numbers and approval for salaries?
[9:38] Cindy Ecksol: every chancellor before you has done that.
[9:38] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we could let sonja speak? without continual barracking?
[9:39] Rose Springvale: please continue with your report Sonja
[9:40] Sonja Strom: Thank you Rose
[9:40] Sonja Strom: Perhaps we can have a conversation later about the role of the Finance Committee,
[9:41] Sonja Strom: and how it can have input on the Executive functions with regard to the Budget,
[9:41] Sonja Strom: which are defined in the Constitution.
[9:41] Sonja Strom: For now we can return to the current budget,
[9:42] Sonja Strom: which comes from a process that has been described by our Treasurer in the presentation for which I have given you the web address.
[9:42] Sonja Strom: Considering this process,
[9:42] Sonja Strom: the current figures we have that fit within it are,
[9:44] Sonja Strom: that the 11 sims of the CDS have a monthly expense of tier to Linden Lab of US$1798,
[9:44] Sonja Strom: and, althought the calculations are a little bit complex,
[9:44] Sonja Strom: a monthly income of tier of US$2030
[9:45] Solomon Mosely: why does she skip july and august of ’09?
[9:45] Sonja Strom: Solomon, the numbers I am giving you are an average of the six month term,
[9:46] Solomon Mosely: and i dont inderstand why she’s measuring from 9/09 to 2/09, why not go by terms then?
[9:46] Sonja Strom: with each month a little bit different,
[9:46] Solomon Mosely: but she doesn’t list the months
[9:46] Sonja Strom: but the monthly average is the numbers I am giving you.
[9:46] Sonja Strom: Oh,
[9:46] Rose Springvale: that’s Sudane’s report, lets let sonja go on with hers
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: please
[9:46] Solomon Mosely: ok, thank you sonja
[9:46] Sonja Strom: the charts in Sudane’s report are showing the process.
[9:47] Sonja Strom: The process was defined at the time she made those charts,
[9:47] Sonja Strom: so the charts use the numbers from that time.
[9:47] Sonja Strom: If the same process is followed for this term as the process that was defined in those charts,
[9:48] Solomon Mosely: well, we can make sense of it when she releases the balance sheets
[9:48] Sonja Strom: today,
[9:48] Sonja Strom: they result in the numbers I am giving you now.
[9:49] Solomon Mosely: clap clap clap “thank you sonja”
[9:50] Sonja Strom: The balance sheets are posted each month here: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=224
[9:50] A group member named sachi Vixen owned by an unknown group gave you Adam n Eve – 11 July 2010.
[9:50] Sonja Strom: Those currently appearing there go up to May,
[9:51] Sonja Strom: but the Treasurer has sent all of you the balance sheet for June by email.
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry: not me
[9:51] Rose Springvale: we have that, maybe in the interest of time you can move on to your side of it?
[9:51] Rose Springvale: kas, posted on forums
[9:51] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, I will look into that.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, i think that is right Sonja, I just gave it to sol
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry: ok, just clarifying I haven’t gotten any emails
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: if i get your email I will send it to you
[9:51] Rose Springvale: and the portal i think.
[9:51] Sonja Strom: Thank you Tor
[9:52] Kaseido Quandry: thanks Tor
[9:52] Arria Perreault: it will on the portal very soon
[9:52] Rose Springvale: it is public info for all the citizens to see
[9:52] Rose Springvale: thanks Arria
[9:52] Tor Karlsvalt: portalhas not been updated
[9:52] Sonja Strom: oh Kaseido, maybe I have an incorrect email address for you…
[9:52] Sonja Strom: please let me know what it is, and I will get it updated.
[9:52] Kaseido Quandry: kaseido.quandry@gmail.com – thanks!
[9:53] Rose Springvale: its okay, needs to go to full community anyway…. will be available shortly and prior months are there
[9:53] Arria Perreault: i was travelling this week end
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Thank you, Kaseido.
[9:53] Rose Springvale: we have about 5 more minutes allocated to sonja. lets let her speak
[9:53] Pip Torok: (Hi Sudane)
[9:54] Sonja Strom: So, if we total the cost of our tier to Linden Lab and the tier income we have,
[9:54] Sonja Strom: our total monthly revenue is US$232
[9:55] Sonja Strom: Up to now we have been trying to put 25% of our total revenue into our Reserve,
[9:55] Sonja Strom: but the Finance Committee meetings are indicating that the community thinks this is too high.
[9:55] Sonja Strom: I suggest we reduce this amount from here to 10%,
[9:56] Rose Springvale: isn’t that a law?
[9:56] Sonja Strom: Rose, isn’t what a law?
[9:56] Rose Springvale: i thought we had a law on the reserves. let’s research that.
[9:57] Rose Springvale: we can look into that later. can you wrap up?
[9:57] Sonja Strom: Alright, we will respect that if there is one.
[9:58] Sonja Strom: The only law I know of about it is that the Constitution requires that our Reserve be equal to two months of tier or higher.
[9:58] Tor Karlsvalt: FYI
[9:58] Tor Karlsvalt: NL 4-6 Financial Reserves Act
The city shall move 1 month’s tier in USD to a separate line item (reserve account), and make those funds unavailable for other use.
Funds in the account shall be disbursed at the discretion of the RA to pay recurring expenses in the event of a sudden and unexpected drop in $USD income.
The city shall augment this account as funds are available until it contains enough funds to pay all recurring city expenses for a period of two months absent other income.
[9:58] Sonja Strom: And we have met that requirement.
[9:58] Rose Springvale: okay, go on please
[9:58] Sonja Strom: Yes, maybe we can talk more about this later.
[9:59] Rose Springvale: excuse me a moment sonja, we are out of alloted time. RA, do you want to extend time?
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn moves to extend time
[9:59] Rose Springvale: if so i need a motion and the amount
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: yes
[9:59] Rose Springvale: how long gwyn?
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 20 mins?
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 11, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:30 am
[9:59] Pip Torok: i agree to extend time
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[9:59] Pip Torok: aye
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[9:59] Rose Springvale: how long do you need to wrap up sonja?
[9:59] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:59] Rose Springvale: no vote called yet
[10:00] Solomon Mosely: to what end? is there more to report on?
[10:00] Sonja Strom: I coud have wrapped up already
[10:00] Rose Springvale: so you want 5 minute and then questions?
[10:00] Sonja Strom: I think it depends on the number and type of questions.
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[10:00] Rose Springvale: okay, we have a motion to extend time by 20 minutes
[10:00] Rose Springvale: seconded?
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:00] Pip Torok: second
[10:00] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:00] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:00] Pip Torok: aye
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:00] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:01] Solomon Mosely: aye
[10:01] Rose Springvale: kas gwyn, arria
[10:01] Kaseido Quandry: nay
[10:01] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:02] Rose Springvale: think gwyn is away, motion carries, Please wrap up the report in the next 5 minutes Sonja, then we’ll take 15 for questions
[10:02] Sonja Strom: Thank you Rose.
[10:02] Sonja Strom: If we put 10% of our income into the Reserve, this brings our monthly expenditures to a total possible of US$209.
[10:02] Sonja Strom: Using an approximation of L$ value of 277 per US$, this totals L$57,893.
[10:03] Sonja Strom: Once again, this is per month.
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, sorry
[10:03] Sonja Strom: Our expenses include
[10:04] Sonja Strom: stipends to reimburse positions (jobs) in the CDS.
[10:04] Sonja Strom: Currently these are:
[10:04] Sonja Strom: 1 treasurer = L$1,000; 1 PIO = L$1,000; 1 Caretaker = L$1,000, 1 Content Archivist = L$1,000.
[10:05] Sonja Strom: I do have a question here: is there an Archivist for the RA?
[10:05] Rose Springvale: no
[10:05] Sonja Strom: The Archivist we are giving a stipend to is the SC Archivist.
[10:05] Sonja Strom: Thanks.
[10:05] Rose Springvale: you mean the content archivist i think
[10:06] Sonja Strom: Yes, the SC Content Archivist, Aliasi Stonebender.
[10:06] Rose Springvale: where our intellectual property is held
[10:06] Rose Springvale: i think its a separate position, not related to SC, she’s also on SC though
[10:06] Sonja Strom: ah, ok.
[10:06] Sonja Strom: This totals L$4,000.
[10:07] Sonja Strom: We have a monthly web hosting fee for the CDS website,
[10:07] Sonja Strom: or web portal, that is L$ 2,820
[10:07] Sonja Strom: We have an overall CDS events budget,
[10:08] Sonja Strom: carried over from the previous Chancellor (meaning, I have made no changes here),
[10:09] Sonja Strom: of L$12,000
[10:09] Solomon Mosely: um, you were the previous chancellor
[10:09] Kaseido Quandry: Stui!!
[10:09] Sonja Strom: Solomon, the Chancellor previous to me was Jamie Palisades.
[10:09] Lilith Ivory: Hi Stui
[10:09] Solomon Mosely: gotcha
[10:09] Rose Springvale: please finish sonja, we need to move on
[10:09] StuiChicanne Darkstone: je suis arrive
[10:10] Sonja Strom: We have a monthly recreation budget of L$1666.
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol: vraiment????
[10:10] StuiChicanne Darkstone: mais Stui en Paris
[10:10] Rose Springvale: hi stui
[10:10] Sonja Strom: These are all continuations of normal CDS activities.
[10:10] Pip Torok: pas d’blague? ….
[10:11] Sonja Strom: When we add all of these figures up,
[10:11] Arria Perreault: bon séjour à Paris, Stui
[10:11] Sonja Strom: the remaining amount is L$37,407.
[10:12] Sonja Strom: My suggestion is that we split this amount three ways and distribute it to the Regional Event Committees, for them to spend however they choose.
[10:12] Kaseido Quandry: wonderful idea, Sonja
[10:12] Rose Springvale: thank you sonja. Ready for questions?
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol would like to see all of this in a spreadsheet.
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Cindy
[10:13] Sonja Strom: This amount of disbursement then, will be L$12,469 for each Regional Committee per month.
[10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: or a notecard
[10:13] Sonja Strom: Alright Cindy, I will work on putting that together.
[10:13] Rose Springvale: What happens if the commissions don’t spend it?
[10:13] Kaseido Quandry: yes, this report would have been good to have been presented in writing and available on the forum
[10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: I can answer what the consensus of the commission was to that
[10:14] Rose Springvale: are you finished Sonja? if so, we can take questions
[10:14] Sonja Strom: Point taken Kaseido – next time I can do it that way.
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[10:14] Rose Springvale: lets do this in order
[10:14] Rose Springvale: thanks, Cindy?
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: sonja, you ade a statement at the beginning that our “finances are slowly improving” and that we were “in the red” in the past
[10:14] Sonja Strom: I am finished with the important parts of what I wanted to say in my report, thanks.
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: I took the time to look at the treasurers reports for the last four terms
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: and I see no evidence of an excess of expenses over revenue…which is how we generally define “in the red”
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: on what basis do you state that we were “in the red” and are now “improving”?
[10:16] Sonja Strom: If you would like I can try to find those reports for you now,
[10:16] Cindy Ecksol: yes, please.
[10:16] Sonja Strom: or I can find them and get back to you later.
[10:16] Tor Karlsvalt: There was a dip in January that was recovered by March
[10:16] Sonja Strom: Alright.
[10:17] Rose Springvale: thanks sonja
[10:17] Rose Springvale: other questions?
[10:17] Cindy Ecksol: “a dip in January” is not “in the red”
[10:17] Trebor Warcliffe: I have a suggestion in regards to the reserves and it’s percentages. You have a mandatory 2 months you want in reserve at all times. Than you have a suggested 3 months in reserves so you have money to expand with or hold special events. If the reserve is at the 3 month level than only 10% needs to be put in reserves. If it dips below the 2 month mark the next months tier is increased to the 25%.
[10:17] Rose Springvale: trebor, you are kind of out of order… but thanks for your input
[10:17] Rose Springvale: lets let the RA finish then we’ll open to citizens
[10:17] Trebor Warcliffe: Sorry I had typed it earlier and was waiting to hit enter
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Black is so slimming
[10:18] Rose Springvale: do other RA members have questions?
[10:18] StuiChicanne Darkstone: and goes with everything
[10:18] Tor Karlsvalt: The operating funds and reserves are too often confused.
[10:18] Solomon Mosely raises hand
[10:18] Rose Springvale: go on solomon
[10:18] Arria Perreault: can we reserve some money for expansion projects?
[10:18] Solomon Mosely: when you mentioned us being in the red,
[10:19] Solomon Mosely: what happened, according to your reports, that brought us out?
[10:19] Arria Perreault: (sorry: you answer after Sol)
[10:19] Solomon Mosely: i wonder if that “red” time was the projection of the AA 6-month tiers, and then they got paid up
[10:19] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Getting rid of Gordon Brown got us outta the Red
[10:20] Rose Springvale: actually we are out of time again. we need to either extend or perhaps have sonja come back next week with more specifics? I don’t want to leave Kas hanging
[10:20] Pip Torok: (and into the Fire but thats UK-beeswax, Stui!
[10:20] Sonja Strom: Solomon, the main thing that happened to improve the finances is that a fair amount of land that was owned by the government was sold to individuals.
[10:20] Solomon Mosely: i’m fine with thatk, thanks sonja
[10:21] Rose Springvale: RA? motion to extend or shall we move the questions to the forum?
[10:21] Solomon Mosely: questions to forum
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine to continue, so I’d move to continue…
[10:21] Cindy Ecksol nods
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: forums pls thx sonja
[10:21] Rose Springvale: smiels, need a motion
[10:21] Pip Torok: agree with Sol
[10:22] Cindy Ecksol: motion to move discussion to the forums
[10:22] Rose Springvale: thank you cindy. second?
[10:22] Solomon Mosely: second
[10:22] Pip Torok: second
[10:22] Arria Perreault: i can read the answer in the forum
[10:22] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:22] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:22] Pip Torok: aye
[10:22] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:22] StuiChicanne Darkstone: oui
[10:22] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:22] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[10:23] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:23] Rose Springvale: more votes can register, but motion carries
[10:23] Rose Springvale: thank you Sonja
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: I have to go, see you later
[10:23] Rose Springvale: thanks for coming stui
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: Pie needs the computer
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: bye stui
[10:23] Arria Perreault: à bientôt
[10:23] Pip Torok: bye stui
[10:23] Lilith Ivory: bye Stui
[10:23] Cindy Ecksol: bye stui!
[10:23] StuiChicanne Darkstone: (Pie’s fault)
[10:23] Rose Springvale: i know there are a lot of questions still for sonja, so perhaps she can open a thread for us with a summary of her report
[10:24] Kaseido Quandry: bye Stui
[10:24] Rose Springvale: commission reports… lets keep these brief
[10:24] Rose Springvale: Elections…Gwyn?
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: not sure if she is here. Don’t see her tag.
[10:25] Rose Springvale: she’s back and forth i think…. Lilith would you like to go ahead with commerce? we’ll work Elections in when she’s back
[10:25] Lilith Ivory: sure
[10:25] Lilith Ivory: the Commerce Commission has not hold a meeting yet…
[10:26] Lilith Ivory: but the first one is scheduled for Sat 7/17 8 am
[10:26] Rose Springvale: smiles. thank you. done?
[10:26] Kaseido Quandry shudders
[10:26] Lilith Ivory: ok
[10:26] Rose Springvale: Citizenship? Arria?
[10:27] Arria Perreault: I will publish a first date for a public meeting next week
[10:27] Rose Springvale: great, thank you.
[10:27] Rose Springvale: Finance …Tor?
[10:27] Arria Perreault: I am also busy to get some datas
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks for the opportunity to chair this commission.
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: In the past month, the finance commission met three times at different times and days of the week.
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: I hope this has provided times convenient to most interested citizens.
[10:28] Arria Perreault: I am happy if poeple help me to get them
[10:28] Rose Springvale: we will Arria thanks
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Transcripts for these meetings are found at:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: July 3, 2010 8AN SLT
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2976
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: June 30, 2010 7 PM SLT
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2974
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: June 30, 12 PM (noon) SLT
[10:28] Solomon Mosely: is this a “tor bot”?
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2973
[10:29] Solomon Mosely:
[10:29] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: this is making it easy
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:29] Kaseido Quandry: nicely done!
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I will have a formal report at next RA meeting. Until then, I would appreciate that any comments be made on the forum.
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I will open a general discussion thread in case anyone wishes to make comments on the Finance Commission meetings.
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Tentative times for future meetings are:
[10:29] Pip Torok is all for making it easy …
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Monday, July 19th at 7:00 PM SLT
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Sunday, July 25th at 8:00 AM SLT
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Monday, July 26 at 8:00 AM SLT
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: let me know if there can be better times
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: This group of meetings will try to limit the focus on proposed tier revamps.
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: I just got permissions to add to the calendar, so I will make use of this calendar as well as in-world notices.
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: Thank you for all the support shown for the work of this commission.
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: btw, I remcommend that eveyone use and automated system for reports.
[10:31] Solomon Mosely: should i press “1” to leave a question?
[10:31] Rose Springvale: Thank you Tor, for your work. Remember that the chair goes to all the meetings, though the rest of us have the opportunity to pick and choose. I appreciate the work you all do
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: saves on typing time
[10:31] Rose Springvale: Sol, lets take it to forums or the meetings, or save for next RA meeting
[10:31] Rose Springvale:
[10:31] Solomon Mosely: heh, sure
[10:31] Rose Springvale: please
[10:31] Rose Springvale: gwyn is still away, so we’ll go on to communications. Kas?
[10:31] Kaseido Quandry: sure, thanks Rose
[10:32] Kaseido Quandry: The Communications Commission report has been up on the forums for two weeks:
[10:32] Kaseido Quandry: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2969
[10:32] Kaseido Quandry: I’ll summarize quickly
[10:32] Kaseido Quandry: This was an *excellent* process, and very educational
[10:32] Kaseido Quandry: I encurage the other committee chairs to move ahead – it’s very interesting, and doesn’t take a horrible amount of time
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: Contrary to my original proposal, citizen discussion focused almost entirely on inworld comms
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: the proposed legislation reflects the concerns expressed by citizens at the meetings – both CDS political figures and just interested people
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: the high points are –
[10:34] Kaseido Quandry: open posting access to the inworld citizens group to *everyone* and encourage use (subject to standard content concerns) as a means of building community
[10:35] Kaseido Quandry: ensure that the Excecutive communications team has roles and responsibilities set *in writing* each term
[10:35] Kaseido Quandry: and that all communications *other than* governmental functions be left to self-organization in the community
[10:35] Kaseido Quandry: that’s the summary, and I’d be happy to take questions
[10:36] Patroklus Murakami: i have a question
[10:36] Rose Springvale: Thanks Kas. For anyone who hasn’t done so, you can get a copy of the proposed legislation in the box
[10:36] Rose Springvale: Pat go ahead
[10:36] Arria Perreault: i have one too
[10:36] Patroklus Murakami: how many official channels does this leave us with? there seemed to be a proliferation of them. does this rationalise them at all?
[10:37] Kaseido Quandry: By my count, we have the portal, Twitter, Facebook and a variety of inworld tools for governmental use primarily/exclusively
[10:37] Pip Torok: kas … why shd roles & responsibilities for Exec comms be set _each_ term?
[10:37] Rose Springvale: wait pip, Arria is next after pat
[10:37] Pip Torok: ok
[10:38] Rose Springvale: i think there was a second part to pat’s question kas
[10:38] Rose Springvale: rationalizing?
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry scrolls back
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami: thx kas. is there any intention to rationalise these so we can tell ppl where to look for info?
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry: Yes, absolutely –
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: it would be good to be able to say ‘use the calendar, its always up to date’ rather than ‘look at three or four channels’ one of them might be right!
[10:39] Kaseido Quandry: The previous team has done a good job of establsihing the portal as a clearinghouse –
[10:39] Rose Springvale: maybe you can explain what you mean by rationalizing, i think we have some confusion
[10:39] Rose Springvale: (non english speakers particularly)
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: i mean limiting it to a number of channels we always use
[10:39] Kaseido Quandry: and one primary intent of this proposal is to establish inworld equivalents – one-stop info shopping, bascailly
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: so that ppl always know where to look
[10:39] Kaseido Quandry: I think I’ve answered taht
[10:39] Rose Springvale: good, thanks. Arria?
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: and the burden of updating them with info is minimised
[10:40] Patroklus Murakami: ty kas
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: I have a question.
[10:40] Kaseido Quandry: Agreed, Pat, that’s a challenge and workload to be minimized
[10:40] Rose Springvale: (after pip tor)
[10:40] Kaseido Quandry: I think Arria’s next?
[10:40] Rose Springvale: arria is typing on that touch screen, lets give her a sec
[10:41] Kaseido Quandry: ahh, k
[10:41] Arria Perreault: i think the current proposal focuses too much on in-world communication. I do understand this need. I would like we mention the duties of the executive team on public informations, on the portal
[10:42] Rose Springvale: do you have a proposal Arria?
[10:42] Arria Perreault: i have written my remark on the forum
[10:42] Kaseido Quandry: if you have proposed language for an amendment, I’d welcome it
[10:42] Rose Springvale: maybe more work for the commission on that issue?
[10:43] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[10:43] Rose Springvale: (hehe, you thought you were finished kas lol)
[10:43] Kaseido Quandry: I don’t think this proposal *excludes* anything, and wasn’t meant as a laundry list of tools, but of process
[10:43] Rose Springvale: recognizes cindy after tor
[10:43] Arria Perreault: The contains contains all necessary public informations about laws, processes, positions, finances. the Executive team is responsible for that
[10:44] Kaseido Quandry: I don’t think anyone questions that at all
[10:44] Rose Springvale: Thanks Arria. We can make sure that sonja and anna have that information
[10:44] Rose Springvale: Pip?
[10:44] Arria Perreault: a next team could forget this duty
[10:44] Pip Torok: moment please
[10:44] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, you’d asked, “why each term” – that’s a good question
[10:45] Pip Torok: yes ….
[10:45] Kaseido Quandry: ok – different people have different strengths and interests –
[10:45] Kaseido Quandry: and, to meet Arria’s concern – it’s a way of ensuring some specific named person is responsible for each function each term
[10:45] You decline Caledon RFL Auction – Tanglewood Forest from A group member named Fogwoman Gray.
[10:45] Kaseido Quandry: so there’s no question of who’s supposed to do what, or who to contact for expertise about any particular function
[10:46] Pip Torok: but youd consider slower freq if nec?
[10:46] Kaseido Quandry: well, each Chancellor selects their own team –
[10:46] Kaseido Quandry: I’d think at that time, they’d parcel out responsibility
[10:46] Kaseido Quandry: if the team doesn’t change, then it can just carry over, of course
[10:47] Rose Springvale: thanks Pip, Tor, i think you are next
[10:47] Pip Torok: good, tks
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I think section F addressed my concern
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: it was
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: if regional commissions could get their own subscribomatics
[10:47] Kaseido Quandry: If I could just add to my answer to Pip –
[10:48] Kaseido Quandry: information/marketing/PR is a *lot* of work, and it’s easy to overload and burn out
[10:48] Pip Torok:
[10:48] Kaseido Quandry: one ideal outcome of this act is to spread the work around – *without* losing accountability
[10:49] Rose Springvale: smile. finished Tor?
[10:49] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[10:50] Rose Springvale: or kas do you want to reply to the subscribo matic one?
[10:50] Kaseido Quandry: I think it’s a great suggestion, absolutely
[10:50] Rose Springvale: thanks, cindy is next if i remember right
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: Kas, I’m a bit concerned abou tthe detailed prescriptive nature of c. and d. in your proposal. I like the idea of accountability, but specifying exactly what mus tbe done seems a bit too controlling.
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 11, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sun Jul 11, 2010 11:32 am
[10:51] Kaseido Quandry: how so, Cindy?
[10:51] Cindy Ecksol: I’d be more comfotable if we left a lot of room for creativity on the part of the PIO.
[10:51] Cindy Ecksol: and the PIO staff
[10:51] Cindy Ecksol: for instance, I could see that at some point in time kiosks aren’t really the thing to serve our purposes
[10:52] Cindy Ecksol: but with it written into law, someone would have to spend a lot of time maintaining them anyway
[10:52] Pip Torok: but wdnt a large part of the input come from the PIO, Cindy?
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry: Cindy, in general I’m inclined to agree with you, but not here –
[10:52] Cindy Ecksol: Yes, input SHOULD come from the PIO…and the Chancellor (when runing for office) should shape that vision
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry: this was an area that citizens were adamant about
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[10:52] Rose Springvale: i think the citizens were pretty .. yes
[10:52] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:52] Cindy Ecksol: AND….the RA, in selecting the Chancellor, ought to be pushing for the things they want
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry: and if some time in the future that changes drastically, well, that’s what the RA is for
[10:53] Rose Springvale: thanks. Other questions?
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: I’m notsaying that kiosks should or should not be there — I happen to think they’re a good thing
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: can i say something
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: I would just not like to see laws that are so incredibly prescriptive.
[10:53] Rose Springvale: well, lets finish questions and then we will discuss Tor
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: let’s let people DO their jobs….not tell the what to do.
[10:53] Rose Springvale: any citizens have questions?
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: or how to do it.
[10:54] Rose Springvale: or other RA members?
[10:54] Trebor Warcliffe: Raises hand
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: this proposal seems like micromanagement in those two planks
[10:54] Rose Springvale: trebor?
[10:54] Rose Springvale: hold those thoughts cindy
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: done, thanks.
[10:54] Trebor Warcliffe: I love the street signs in NFS and find them very helpful.
[10:54] Trebor Warcliffe: Are these availoable to be made and placed in the other SIMS?
[10:55] Sonja Strom raises hand
[10:55] Guillaume Mistwalker raises hand
[10:55] Pip Torok: (wd back Trebor in this)
[10:55] Rose Springvale: street signs are the chancellors area, so sonja did you want to address that?
[10:55] Solomon Mosely: oh, that happened? that’s great
[10:56] Sonja Strom: The street signs in Neufreistadt were made by someone who is no longer in the CDS.
[10:56] Trebor Warcliffe: Do we have the capability to make more?
[10:56] Sonja Strom: We can make new ones, or maybe find some that we would like that we could purchase,
[10:56] Rose Springvale: sonja did you have a question also?
[10:57] Sonja Strom: but we do not have any capability to have more of those particular signs – at least,
[10:57] Sonja Strom: not so long as that person is gone.
[10:57] Trebor Warcliffe: I’m not very good at making things yet but I will explore the possibility of purchasing similar ones in world
[10:57] Sonja Strom: I hope that answers the question.
[10:57] Rose Springvale: we have lots of great builders, maybe ask the guild to do it
[10:57] Sonja Strom: Also, one place we could bring up the issue of signage is the Guild, yes.
[10:57] Sonja Strom agrees with Rose.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: Sonja, were you raising your hand with a question or just to answer Trebor?
[10:58] Sonja Strom: Thank you Rose, it was only to provide the information I have in answer to the question.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: thanks.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: Guillame?
[10:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thank you, according to our website, we have no public information officer.
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now we do
[10:59] Rose Springvale: ah, announced today, Anna Toussaint
[10:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Ah, very well.
[10:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: Thank you
[10:59] Rose Springvale: if you’d like to help, i’m sure they would love more volunteers
[10:59] Rose Springvale: other questions?
[10:59] Guillaume Mistwalker: That answers my question
[11:00] Rose Springvale: good
[11:00] Patroklus Murakami: i must get going. bye folks
[11:00] Pip Torok: Is Guillai#u,e reg to read the Forum?
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m afraid I have to go as well… sorry it’s been a complicated day!
[11:00] Pip Torok: bye Pat
[11:00] Rose Springvale: thanks for coming pat
[11:00] Rose Springvale: we will roll your report to next week gwyn
[11:00] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:00] Pip Torok: shame … see you Gwyn
[11:01] Rose Springvale: are there other questions or shall we move to motion and discussion on the vote?
[11:01] Trebor Warcliffe: If anyone is aware of ownership changes that happen privately please notify me so I can update the owner/citizen list.
[11:01] The Tunaverse: Some Pig! at the Odd Ball 11am Sunday
[11:02] Rose Springvale: Trebor you need to work with Sonja and sudane on that.
[11:02] The Tunaverse owned by Tuna Oddfellow gave you ‘Some pig! at the Odd Ball, 11am-1pm Sunday’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Research%20 … 28/128/655 ).
[11:02] Arria Perreault: you should get a
[11:02] Rose Springvale: kas do you want to put the proposal on the table?
[11:02] Arria Perreault: trebor, you should get an IM from the tool of Timo
[11:02] Kaseido Quandry: Sure – move to approve the Public Information Act as written
[11:03] Cindy Ecksol notes that we are overtime
[11:03] Arria Perreault: it would make your work easier
[11:03] Rose Springvale: (needs to be part of the exec staff for that Arria)
[11:03] Pip Torok: second
[11:03] Rose Springvale: thanks Cindy, we extended remember
[11:03] Rose Springvale: thanks pip
[11:03] Cindy Ecksol: oh, sorry!
[11:03] Arria Perreault: (i know)
[11:03] Rose Springvale: discussion on the motion?
[11:03] Cindy Ecksol: missed that
[11:03] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[11:03] Rose Springvale: cindy
[11:04] Cindy Ecksol: As I stated earlier, I’m not comfortable voting for htis in its current form.
[11:04] Cindy Ecksol: items c and d are much too specific
[11:04] Rose Springvale: do you have revised language to suggest?
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: I just would like to say that much of the info in our kiosks, esp at Anzere, has been out of date. I think the law should old the exec accontable. I also commend anna at already movig on this without the current law.
[11:04] Cindy Ecksol: yes, I’d propose to drop them out altogether
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: sorry
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: that slipped
[11:04] Rose Springvale: ah, how do you feel about that kas?
[11:04] Kaseido Quandry: No.
[11:04] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks
[11:04] Rose Springvale: other discussion?
[11:05] Cindy Ecksol: can I move to amend and see if I’ the only one?
[11:05] Cindy Ecksol: or are we just discussing?
[11:05] Rose Springvale: (and yes, Tor, anna has done great.) we are discussion the motion as presented, friendly denied, so we need to deal with this one i think
[11:06] Cindy Ecksol: if you need a motion, I move to amend Kas’ proposal to eliminate items c and d
[11:06] Rose Springvale: other comments or discussion?
[11:06] Rose Springvale: okay, cindy has moved to remove parts of the committee recommendation, kas does not agree. is there a second on this motion to amend?
[11:07] Rose Springvale: this all came from committee so i’m hestitant to change it
[11:07] Cindy Ecksol: it’s our job to do so if it makes sense
[11:07] Solomon Mosely: should we give it one more meeting and week in the forum?
[11:07] Rose Springvale: see no second to the amendment, so lets continue on the discussion
[11:07] Kaseido Quandry: This has been up for discussion for two weeks on the forum
[11:07] Cindy Ecksol ods
[11:08] Cindy Ecksol nods
[11:08] Rose Springvale: i don’t know that there is much more to say sol, and yes, it’s been up for two weeks
[11:08] Solomon Mosely: sure, i just mean to give cindy time
[11:08] Rose Springvale: any citizen discussion?
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: I have no problem with it as written. Even like it.
[11:08] Rose Springvale: i like it too
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: just feelit ties hands of volunteers too much
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: we have a bad habit of doing that
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: Well really stuff dosn’t change that much.
[11:09] Rose Springvale: seeing no other hands, lets vote on the motion. All in favor of adopting the Public Information Act as presented by the commission, please say aye
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol smiles
[11:09] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:09] Pip Torok: aye
[11:09] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: it SHOULD change
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: nay
[11:10] Yekaterina Kalchek /me
[11:10] Rose Springvale: sol and arria?
[11:10] Yekaterina Kalchek: sorry please ignore than last line
[11:10] Rose Springvale: smile at katya
[11:11] Solomon Mosely: aye
[11:11] Yekaterina Kalchek: last line from me; not Rose!!
[11:12] Rose Springvale: arria can enter her vote with the 7 day when she gets back. Chair votes Aye.
[11:12] Rose Springvale: we’ll see what happens on the forums and announce the results there and next week
[11:12] Rose Springvale: Thank you kas for your hard work on this, and i know you’ll be open to more meetings as needed.
[11:13] Kaseido Quandry: oh, absolutely
[11:13] Kaseido Quandry: and thanks to everyone who participated – we did some real democracy!
[11:13] Rose Springvale: and thank you to all the citizens and RA members who participated, it was a great commission
[11:13] Rose Springvale: Concerns of RA members?
[11:13] Rose Springvale: smile Announcements? (has the game started yet?)
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: now that we all have calendar privileges, I hope everyone will post comission meetings
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: yes! that is great
[11:14] Kaseido Quandry: that rocks – big thanks to Anna for that
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: well in advance, eh?
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: yes anna acted very quickly
[11:14] Rose Springvale: she’s got energy, let’s help her so she doesn’t burn out
[11:14] Pip Torok agrees
[11:14] Kaseido Quandry: hear hear
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol:
[11:14] Rose Springvale: any other announcements?
[11:14] Lilith Ivory: uhm I still try to figure out where to find my google ID
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: i have already offered any help i can provide.
[11:15] Lilith Ivory: is anybody able to help me with that?
[11:15] Rose Springvale: great, thanks Tor
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: Lil, you don’t need a google id to view the calendar — it’s open to anyone
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: oh i have something
[11:15] Rose Springvale: Lilith, i’ll help you
[11:15] Rose Springvale: she has to have one to post
[11:15] Rose Springvale: yes Tor?
[11:15] Lilith Ivory: yea but I might need it to post soething
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: In a conversation with a citizen
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: and you can register with any e-mail address to post
[11:15] Lilith Ivory: ah ok thank you
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: we began to think that NFS and AM could use an update
[11:15] Rose Springvale: update?
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: of ground texture and trees
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, as time goes on I think we look a little shabby next to some sims.
[11:16] Rose Springvale: yes, i think people have been talking about that for a while. Should it go to the guild?
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: just wanted to voice that here
[11:16] Pip Torok: the right place imo …
[11:16] Rose Springvale: lets send a note to moon and see if we can get that on their agenda
[11:17] Rose Springvale: Anything else?
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: ooh also
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:17] Rose Springvale: yes tor???
[11:17] Arria Perreault: aye to the Public Information Act
[11:17] Rose Springvale: thank you arria! motion carries
[11:17] Kaseido Quandry cheers
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: it would be nice if we could have the NG consider planning a new sim asap
[11:17] Kaseido Quandry: thanks Arria!
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: woot
[11:17] Rose Springvale: we will get to that i think next month Tor, needs to be a directive from RA
[11:18] Pip Torok: supports Tor on this
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: see, we actually did something, and it hardly hurt at all, lol
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: sure I understand
[11:18] Trebor Warcliffe: Personally I think we need to get the current SIMS in order so to speak before we expand.
[11:18] Trebor Warcliffe: Just my thoughts.
[11:18] Rose Springvale: kas, will you work with sonja and anna to help implement the law?
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: absolutely
[11:18] Pip Torok: can do both at the same time, I suggest, trebor …
[11:18] Rose Springvale: thanks trebor, exactly the discussions we need to have in RA before we send a directive
[11:19] Rose Springvale: so we’ll put it on the agenda as soon as we have a spot
[11:19] Trebor Warcliffe: Yes if we have enough participants I feel that could be accomplished.
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:19] Rose Springvale: if there are no other announcements, we could have a motion to adjourn…
[11:19] Arria Perreault: i have to go : WC final starts soon. We can talk about the question of Arias and citizen involvment in a next meeting
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: i motion w adjoun
[11:19] Rose Springvale: yes Arria!
[11:19] Pip Torok: second
[11:19] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:19] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:19] Pip Torok: aye
[11:20] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[11:20] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:20] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:20] Solomon Mosely: aye
[11:20] Rose Springvale: Thank you all .. great meeting!
[11:20] Tor Karlsvalt: woot!
[11:20] Rose Springvale: we are adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 24 July 2010

Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 24, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:15 am
[9:02] Rose Springvale: Good morning everyone. Let me remind you all that all CDS meetings are recorded and transcripted, so if you speek you consent to such is presumed
[9:03] Ranma Tardis: good morning
[9:03] Rose Springvale: The first 15 minutes of our meeting are reserved to hear the concerns of citizens. Glad to see some of you here today, Anyone have somethign they want to say?
[9:04] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:04] Rose Springvale: come on Ranma! i know you do!
[9:04] Ranma Tardis: well not sure how to say it
[9:04] Rose Springvale: its just us, conversationally is fine
[9:04] Ranma Tardis: well I am now not a citizen of the CDS
[9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn knows she owes some public apologies but won’t waste the RA’s time with them and prefers to listen to Ranma instead.
[9:05] Rose Springvale: i believe you are welcome to speak, but if you don’t feel comfortable, that’s fine
[9:05] Ranma Tardis: we need to have an understanding of each others views
[9:06] Rose Springvale: that’s pretty broad…
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: quite…
[9:06] Ranma Tardis: true
[9:07] Ranma Tardis: so now what? AA has left the CDS
[9:07] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:08] Rose Springvale: we move forward Ranma. and that’s what the RA will be addressing this term, how CDS will move forward. I hope you’ll stick around to see
[9:08] Rose Springvale: Jeroma, did you have somethign you want to discuss too? we only get a few minutes
[9:08] Ranma Tardis: am sure, so much to do in rl
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope so too… I mean, you have been around for ages, Ranma, you’ve seen how things have changed over time…
[9:09] Tor Karlsvalt: I would like to add something
[9:09] Ranma Tardis: yes I sort of liked the Neualtenberg projekt
[9:09] Rose Springvale: smiles.
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[9:10] Rose Springvale: Tor its conversation, you can speak, and i see jeroma typing too, want to make sure we give time to the citizens.. ra has another slot
[9:10] Jeroma Wycliffe: Not really, I’m too mystified by current affairs to have much to add. Some obvious hidden fires I can’t sort through.
[9:10] Rose Springvale: i understand Jeroma. Me too.
[9:10] Ranma Tardis: am still a member of Kendra’s guild
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Would you care to share them, Jeroma?
[9:10] Rose Springvale smiles She’s still on my friends list
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
[9:11] Lilith Ivory is sad to have met Kendra only once
[9:11] Rose Springvale: Hi Rosie, we are sharing citizens concerns now, so if you have one, jump right in
[9:11] Rose Springvale: (hi Imotali )
[9:11] Rosie Gray: okay thanks
[9:11] Rosie Gray:
[9:11] Rose Springvale: didn’t meant to overlook anyone
[9:11] Imotali Antiesse has a question: Will this RA be separated after the demerger ( hi Rose)
[9:12] Rose Springvale: this RA is the RA of CDS, so it is already
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Separated? How so?
[9:12] Jeroma Wycliffe: Gwyn: “hidden fires” meaning underlying motivations that make the merger impossible to some.
[9:12] Rose Springvale: AA is no longer part of CDS
[9:12] Rosie Gray: has some decision been made about de-merging?
[9:12] Ranma Tardis: in physical position?
[9:12] Rosie Gray: oh
[9:12] Rose Springvale: yes, Al Andalus announced its withdrawal on Thursday Rosie
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:13] Rosie Gray nods: I see
[9:13] Rose Springvale: no decisions on phisical location yet Ranma
[9:13] Rose Springvale: lots of strong feelings
[9:13] Ranma Tardis: hopes there will be free transit between the two
[9:13] Rose Springvale: tollls have been discussed
[9:14] Rosie Gray: does that mean that the sims won’t be connected?
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Rose
[9:14] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[9:14] Ranma Tardis: yea
[9:14] Rose Springvale: that decisions hasn’t been made yet Rosie.
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami:
[9:14] Rose Springvale: by either side, i’ll add
[9:14] Ranma Tardis: hopes we remain friends
[9:14] Carolyn Saarinen: Tolls or trolls? One under everybridge?
[9:14] Rose Springvale: hi Caro
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true, true — although I hope to ressurect Kas’ old proposal … in due time
[9:14] Carolyn Saarinen: As-saláamu :alái-kum
[9:14] Lilith Ivory hopes that also
[9:14] Kaseido Quandry: lol, Caro
[9:14] Lilith Ivory: Hi Caro
[9:15] Imotali Antiesse walaikumsalam Caro
[9:15] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aleikomosalam
[9:15] Ranma Tardis: lots of tools here in Oklahoma, might even be a troll under the old route 66 bridge
[9:15] Ranma Tardis: tolls
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Trolls and Tolls
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[9:15] Rose Springvale: perhaps we should have a town hall meeting to discuss the feelings issue that seem to be haunting some of our citizens
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d second that!
[9:15] Rose Springvale: because i dont’ think we can address those in a 15 minute concern hour
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:15] Lilith Ivory nods
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: This is still a very sensitive time so close after the AA decision to de-merge. Tempers or feelings of anger are in some cases still very hot. I hope everyone who is part of CDS and AA can wait a bit before making a final decision to leave CDS or AA themselves.
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Tor!
[9:16] Kaseido Quandry: nicely said, Tor!
[9:16] Jeroma Wycliffe: Absolutely
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (welcome, Delia!)
[9:16] Rose Springvale: We are at time and have a few more citizens who’ve joined us… shall we extend this section of our agenda or move on?
[9:16] Delia Lake: /hello everyone
[9:16] Delia’s translator: / Bună ziua tuturor
[9:16] Rose Springvale: if we want to extend, i’ll need a motion
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine in extending a bit
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…. motion to extend
[9:16] Rose Springvale: how long….
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s say 10 more minutes?
[9:17] Imotali Antiesse: Hi Delia
[9:17] Kaseido Quandry: second
[9:17] Rose Springvale: okay. All in favor?
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:17] Ranma Tardis: while there are two governments we can only be truly spilt if we the citizens allow it
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:17] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[9:17] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[9:17] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Sudane
[9:17] Sudane Erato: hi
[9:17] Tor Karlsvalt: hi sudane
[9:17] Rose Springvale: okay, we’ll extend to 9 27.
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: Hi Sudane
[9:17] Arria Perreault: Hi Sudane
[9:18] Rose Springvale: if anyone wants to speak more
[9:19] Ranma Tardis: nothing says we can not do things toughter
[9:19] Rose Springvale: Anyone care to follow up on Tors comment?
[9:19] Rosie Gray: I’m mainly here to listen
[9:19] Rose Springvale: okay, Soro, anything you want to add?
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: Nothing to say. Its been said.
[9:20] Imotali Antiesse just curious cat wondering how AA government will be.
[9:20] Rose Springvale: that will be for AA to determine Imo, not the business of CDS now
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would just say that there are more forms of unions than merely political ones.
[9:20] Imotali Antiesse: Gracias Rose
[9:20] Kaseido Quandry: hear hear, Gwyn
[9:20] Rose Springvale: yw
[9:21] Tor Karlsvalt: We seem to be all connected. Like it or not our association with CDS binds us all.
[9:21] Tor Karlsvalt: we are sort of a family
[9:21] Rose Springvale: this is the CDS ra meeting after all
[9:21] Carolyn Saarinen: No we aren’t
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: Not any more
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bonds can go beyond words written in paper.
[9:22] Rose Springvale: anyone else?
[9:22] Rose Springvale: if not we’ll go back to the agenda
[9:23] Rose Springvale: Thank you all for your concerns. we will try to schedule a town hall in the next week and hope those of you with confusion or concern will come and discuss the after affects
[9:23] Arria Perreault: Hi Pip
[9:23] Pip Torok: hi everyone
[9:23] Rose Springvale: any ideas of a good time for that?
[9:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Well I am on vacation for two weeks and am free much of the time.
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn says hi to Pip too
[9:24] Tor Karlsvalt: hi pip
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: hi pip
[9:24] Pip Torok: hi Tor …
[9:24] Rose Springvale: oh good Tor,so if we need to extend todays discussion perhaps we can do it on Thursday, so those who can’t come to Saturday meetings can attend
[9:24] Pip Torok: and Lilith!
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be fine with that, Rose….
[9:25] Tor Karlsvalt: uuuuuhhhh
[9:25] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[9:25] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Tor notes that he talks too much
[9:25] Rose Springvale: sorry Tor… lets discuss at the end of the meeting ..see what we need
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or have two sessions, one on Thursday, the other on Sunday or so
[9:26] Rose Springvale: well, our sundays seem pretty full these days…
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True hehe
[9:26] Rose Springvale: we can do a town hall on one of the days, thursday or Saturday, whichever the RA meeting doesn’t need
[9:26] Rose Springvale: lets go on
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could do it on Saturday if we’re finished with the agenda
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[9:26] Rose Springvale: Do we have any additions or amendments to the agenda?
[9:26] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[9:27] Rose Springvale: thinks tor’s sure is lagged…
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[9:27] Rose Springvale: not in re agenda
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn was wondering
[9:27] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I had a suggestion… create a commission to analyse and study what to do next after the decision to de-merge…
[9:27] Rose Springvale: though i note he’s put proposed legislation on the forums, which we may get to, but we can bring that motion in that portion of the agenda
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But… I think that a Town Hall first… would be better
[9:27] You decline Harbor Dive & Tackle from A group member named hjordis Kjeller.
[9:28] Pip Torok agrees
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: listen to citizens first, and only then structure things, and possibly call for a commission
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, well, I have no further suggestions re: agenda
[9:28] Carolyn Saarinen: I thought CDS opinion held that commissions were useless.
[9:28] Rose Springvale: well, that would require yet another commission which have been labeled as ineffective, and since CDS didn’t make the decision, think we need to stay focussed on the business that CDS wants to pursue
[9:28] Rose Springvale: but you can propose it when you are ready
[9:29] Pip Torok: did you, Caro?
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Definitely not today, no.
[9:29] Carolyn Saarinen: Onlty from reading the CDs forums Pip
[9:29] Rose Springvale: There were seven day votes outstanding on the creation of the Communications legislation that we adopted, but i don’t see where they were exercised
[9:29] Rose Springvale: So that legislation is now law.
[9:29] Carolyn Saarinen: Ask Arria
[9:29] Patroklus Murakami: let me try to find the link rose
[9:29] Rose Springvale: sure pat, for the record, but i dont’ think it changes the result
[9:30] Rose Springvale: while you are looking, lets move to commission reports.Elections…Gwyn?
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: indeed rose. for the record:
[9:30] Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2972
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure… I’ll be quick, so to give others more time.
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the Election commission managed to meet twice so far,
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and, uh, unlike some comments that commissions are useless,
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: i should rather report the contrary!
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in fact,
[9:31] Rose Springvale: (RA, please put those votes in the RA discussion thread in the future.)
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the second meeting,
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we managed to deal pretty much with all points on the original agenda
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I was expecting eprsonally to hold more meetings!)
[9:31] Rose Springvale applauds
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would really like to thank everybody who has attended this commission so far.
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You guys were wonderful.
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we’re in a position to make some good suggestions for the RA to adopt as legislation.
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And not merely vague hints or so… there are concrete ideas, good ones
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The next meeting will really be a review of what has been suggested
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope to have a document ready for everybody to comment and help to write
[9:33] Rose Springvale: and then you will be ready for presentation to the RA?
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope so, yes.
[9:33] Rose Springvale: great, thanks
[9:33] Rose Springvale: do you have the next meeting scheduled?
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So there will be just one more meeting, and then we can rpesent the suggestions to teh RA
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet! hehe — probably next Sunday (not tomorrow!)
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn is open to suggestions
[9:34] Tor Karlsvalt: good job Gwyn
[9:34] Rose Springvale: that sounds fine.
[9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not my credit — please thank the people who attended, Tor
[9:34] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And my 5 mins are pretty much over.
[9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you all again
[9:34] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn
[9:34] Rose Springvale: Commerce… Lilith?
[9:35] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:35] Lilith Ivory: we had our first meeting last saturday
[9:35] Lilith Ivory: and have been able to collect a lot of good ideas already
[9:35] Lilith Ivory: still have to sort them hehe
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: I´m thinking about holding the next meeeting on tuesday …maybe 6pm
[9:36] Rose Springvale: Do you find the commission helpful Lilith?
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: I´m going to post the time at the calendar and the forum soon
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: I think there are a lot of things that can be done easily
[9:36] Lilith Ivory: to help our merchants
[9:37] Rose Springvale: great
[9:37] Lilith Ivory: and sure is the commision helpful
[9:37] Rose Springvale: we look forward to what we can do to support your efforts
[9:37] Lilith Ivory: to collect the ideas and bring them on it way
[9:37] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:38] Rose Springvale: great.. want to say more now, or wait?
[9:38] Lilith Ivory: done if there are no questions or suggestions
[9:38] Rose Springvale: i just would encourage the citizens to help you… there were some great discussions at your last meeting, imho
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn totally agrees!
[9:39] Rose Springvale: thanks for your report. Citizenship, Arria?
[9:39] Lilith Ivory nods and wants to thank everybody who helped her already
[9:39] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:39] Arria Perreault: The Citizen commission has met already once
[9:39] Arria Perreault: last sunday
[9:40] Arria Perreault: before the meeting, I have made a collection of datas: lists of citizen, of parcels, all the laws related to this question
[9:40] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2996
[9:41] Arria Perreault: you can have all evidences on the forums, including the transcript
[9:41] Arria Perreault: we have discussed different points
[9:42] Arria Perreault: the citizenship is defined in the Constitution. it would mean a constitutional amendment (2/3)
[9:43] Arria Perreault: there are also different laws, especially the law which allow citizenship to group members, under some conditions
[9:43] Rose Springvale: yes, there are many issues. Do you think your commission will be able to bring a recommendation to the RA?
[9:43] Arria Perreault: yes, I think
[9:44] Arria Perreault: we will work on this law
[9:44] Arria Perreault: we have also discussed about the fact that citizen have not only rights, but also duties
[9:44] Arria Perreault: one of this duties is to maintain our sims
[9:44] Rose Springvale: it would be best if this can happen before the next election season begins in mid october, so hopefully you can bring us a full report and recommendations after the Electiosn commission
[9:45] Rose Springvale: Do you have any more meetings scheduled?
[9:45] Arria Perreault: I will organize a new meeting soon
[9:45] Rose Springvale: Thank you.
[9:45] Arria Perreault: yw
[9:45] Rose Springvale: okay, lets go to Comms. Kas?
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: ok, this’ll be short –
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: I’
[9:45] Kaseido Quandry: I’ve slacked for the past couple weeks
[9:46] Rose Springvale: where are our tomatoes!
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[9:46] Kaseido Quandry: Next up is to schedule a meeting with Anna and Sonja to get the notice provisions implemented,
[9:46] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: no you haven
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: t kas
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, to compensate, there was a LOT of work done before those two weeks, so you’re ahead in time
[9:46] Kaseido Quandry: and to get from them some good times for a next commission meeting, to focus on getting them some good volunteer help where they might want it
[9:46] Kaseido Quandry: thanks Gwyn
[9:47] Kaseido Quandry: so that’s that, for now
[9:47] Rose Springvale: okay, great Kas. Looking forward to the implementation of the law!
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn has just a comment (not a suggestion). I really would like to add that commissions have been a rather long-standing feature of the CDS. Not all commissions are perfect, of course; and we certainly never had so many at the same time as during this term; but overall I have the strong opinion that their work is *very* useful, often comes up with completely unforeseen suggestions (which is GOOD), and are rather less formal than the RA, so people are more comfortable there. They’re anything but “useless”. You can see from the reports here that a LOT of work was done, a lot was achieved, and suggestions tend to be concrete ideas and not vague or abstract suggestions. So I really disagree with the notion that commissions are not useful…
[9:48] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn
[9:48] Rose Springvale: lets go on to Finance
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: ok,
[9:48] Rose Springvale: so Tor has as much time as we can give him
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: oh boy
[9:48] Rose Springvale: hehe
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[9:48] Kaseido Quandry:
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: well keep your chat boxes open, cuz i void typing if i can
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: In the past month the commission met three times and different times. I have tried to have meetings when on different days of the week and at different times.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: I hope this has provided times convenient to most interested citizens.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Let me briefly list what the commission has discussed.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: –The treasure should make a separate AV to keep reserve funds separate from operating funds. Sudane will look into doing this in late July or August.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: –RA should request that the New Guild re-parcel the large lot in AM (AH2) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: –Collection of tier is important, but the current law inhibits the Chancellor and Treasure in their duty and desire to enforce tier collections.
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: Thus, we will propose change to the current law: to remove the stipulation regarding the necessity to implement a method of prepayment of tier,
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt:
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 24, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:24 am
[9:50] Carolyn Saarinen: “Is creating commissions a real work ? Is making a bill a result ? …A real project is something else than a commission work. ”
[9:50] Rose Springvale: shh caro
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: to instruct the Chancellor to repossess all fully or partially delinquent parcels two weeks in arrears and
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: to finally return all objects and set for sale any parcel delinquent for one month.
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: The current law is NL 9-2 Land Sales Reclamation Act found at: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=240
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: –We also found support for making our tier more uniform. We suggested we would look at his question more after this RA meeting.
[9:50] Carolyn Saarinen: ;p
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: However, in general support exists for basing tier on the number of prims allotted to each parcel.
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: –There was also concern regarding any costs related to the eventuality of de-merger between the five original CDS sims and AA sims.
[9:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane was asked to begin considering this possibility.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: –All in all on the commission seemed hopeful that we could continue work on an expansion of NFS.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: I did not hold subsequent meetings for several reasons. One RL concerns on my part. But also we had a number of meetings just in the past week and I suspected there might be conflicts.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Finally, the merger question was coming to a resolution and I thought it best to let this question get settled.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: I am on leave this next two week and hope to have several meetings and optimum times for all.
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: The two motions for which the commissions found support are posted to the forums at:
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: A motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3007
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3006
[9:52] Tor Karlsvalt: Thats it
[9:52] Rose Springvale: wow
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo!
[9:52] Rose Springvale: great report. thanks for taking the time to do all that!
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: a lot to digest — thanks Tor!
[9:52] Kaseido Quandry: wow, great work!
[9:52] Patroklus Murakami: what tool are you using to give ur report tor? it’s v handy
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[9:52] Tor Karlsvalt: um Speakeasy
[9:53] Rose Springvale: Tor, would you like us to discuss the specific motions at this point?
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: the repaceling is probably the easiest
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: reparceling
[9:53] Rose Springvale: I think we know this commission is a huge one and will be ongoing for the term, so don’t get nervous, or relax too much
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[9:53] Rose Springvale: okay, lets post it in the record please
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see that we have two motions…
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
RA requests that the New Guild re-parcel the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
The parcel has been set for sale since before January 2010. Currently, it is too expensive for the market. It is priced at $L95,219.00. Depending on the the value of the Linden, this equates to about $344.00 to $380.00 USD.
[i]The RA instructs the New Guild to consider re-parcelling AH2 into no more than four parcels with a suggestion that some of the land be designated as prim farm land that will remain free of large structures.
The RA requests that the New Guild report back to the RA with a plan for re-parceling this plot no later than the first RA meeting after September 1, 2010.
[9:54] Rose Springvale: thank you. Do we have a second for the motion?
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: umm, isn’t that the chancellors’ job?
[9:55] muhammedyussif Wikinger: second
[9:55] Rose Springvale: thank you muhammed
[9:55] Rose Springvale: now we can discuss
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry raises a hand
[9:55] Rose Springvale: kas
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry: I’d like to offer an amendment which I hope is just for clarification –
[9:56] Rose Springvale: ok…
[9:56] Kaseido Quandry whispers: in that last paragraph, to add after “re-parceling,” – “and re-pricing”
[9:56] Kaseido Quandry: Chopping up an insanely priced parcel alone doesn’t get us anything
[9:56] Rose Springvale: Tor?
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: indeed kas
[9:56] Rose Springvale: any thoughts on that amendment?
[9:56] Tor Karlsvalt: I am not totally agains repricing our land. But I wonder if that is too much to take on in this motion.
[9:56] Pip Torok: what amendment?
[9:57] Kaseido Quandry: scroll back, Pip
[9:57] Rose Springvale: so for now you’d reject the amendment to add repricing to this proposal
[9:57] Patroklus Murakami has a couple of questions when u r ready
[9:57] Tor Karlsvalt: i do agree with Kas, tho, our land seems to be prices way over comperable land elsewhere
[9:57] Rose Springvale: not friendly then, so i think we have to either have the amendment seconded and voted or withdrawn
[9:57] Arria Perreault: there is concept of pricing for each sim
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: i didn’t see an amendment. cd we have the text pls?
[9:58] Rose Springvale: need either a second on kas’s motion or we return to the discussion
[9:58] Kaseido Quandry: in that last paragraph, to add after “re-parceling,” – “and re-pricing”
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: seconded
[9:58] Arria Perreault: can Kas write the motion in a clear text?
[9:58] Rose Springvale: did
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok…. I had missed that too
[9:58] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:58] Patroklus Murakami: i didn’t get the text the first time
[9:58] Rose Springvale: okay, so now we are considering ONLY the amendment which adds repricing
[9:59] Rose Springvale: All in favor of amending the motion on the table to add repricing
[9:59] Rose Springvale: please say aye
[9:59] Pip Torok: i saw no amendment either Pat
[9:59] Arria Perreault: it would affect the pricing of the sim: two prim price for the same sim ….
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: if we are willing that is ok by me.
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: i agree, it’s daft to try selling it at that price. why not fix it lower? (but not at zero:))
[9:59] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[9:59] Rose Springvale: lets stick with procedure
[9:59] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:59] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[9:59] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:59] Pip Torok: abstain
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: aye,
[10:00] Arria Perreault: is it only the selling price, not the ffes?
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: i have no problem as thre seems to be wide support for this.
[10:00] Arria Perreault: Kas, Tor?
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:00] Arria Perreault: fees*
[10:00] Rose Springvale: okay, motion carries, the motion on the table now will include repricing as well
[10:00] Pip Torok: can someone IM the amended motion to me (thanks)
[10:00] Rose Springvale: now we can discuss the motion, and i think Pat is in line next
[10:00] Tor Karlsvalt: jsut the selling price.
[10:00] Arria Perreault: sorry, I dd not vote and I had a comprehesnsion question
[10:00] Patroklus Murakami: tor, have the AM residents requested this reparcelling?
[10:00] Rose Springvale: you can speak after pat
[10:01] Arria Perreault: now I vote aye, as Tor has answered my question
[10:01] Patroklus Murakami: and, isn’t this for the chancellor not the guild? (and not really us )
[10:01] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[10:01] Rose Springvale: anyone want to respond to pat?
[10:02] Arria Perreault: I agree with Pat that it is risky to ask the Guild as it is a bit sleepy
[10:02] Arria Perreault: the Chancellor can do that
[10:02] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well…. my feeling is that we can certainly recommend the Chancellor with some action,
[10:02] Tor Karlsvalt: as amended
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but the RA shouldnt’t try to replace the Executive in its role
[10:02] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
RA requests that the New Guild re-parcel AND re price the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
The parcel has been set for sale since before January 2010. Currently, it is too expensive for the market. It is priced at $L95,219.00. Depending on the the value of the Linden, this equates to about $344.00 to $380.00 USD.
The RA instructs the New Guild to consider re-parcelling AH2 into no more than four parcels with a suggestion that some of the land be designated as prim farm land that will remain free of large structures.
The RA requests that the New Guild report back to the RA with a plan for re-parceling AND RE-PRICING this plot no later than the first RA meeting after September 1, 2010.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: the guild will meet tomorrow
[10:02] Rose Springvale: is my understanding
[10:02] Sonja Strom’s ears perk up
[10:02] Arria Perreault: especially if it is only a farm for prims
[10:03] Arria Perreault: the Executive can decide of it will ask the Guild or not
[10:03] Rose Springvale: This parcel has been empty for nearly a year i believe
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami thought AM was already double-prim…
[10:03] Arria Perreault: we all want to solve this question, Rose
[10:03] Rose Springvale: I think the RA can make laws regarding land use
[10:03] Arria Perreault: the quickest soltion is to ask the Chancellor to do that
[10:03] Arria Perreault: and the Chancellor find a way to do this task
[10:03] Patroklus Murakami: not sure i’ve had an answer on my first question
[10:03] Rose Springvale: so maybe this motion should be to request the chancellor to request the guild
[10:04] Tor Karlsvalt: it has been a problem since at least January and nothing was done.
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… you see, my point here is the following. I think we ALL agree that this is something importan to do, and do quickly. My only fear is that we might be stepping outside the powers of the RA and thus the SC might veto the proposal… wasting even another week….
[10:04] Rose Springvale: who then will report back to the chancellor who will report to us. I think the community is asking, through this commission, which has met several times, for action.
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be fine with a motion to recommend teh Chancellor a course of action
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Rose
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: i’d be fine with that too gwyn
[10:05] Arria Perreault: the Chancellor can even do it after the meeting
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[10:05] Pip Torok: me too
[10:05] Rose Springvale: i think the chancellor has the obligation to work with the guild
[10:05] Tor Karlsvalt: The chancellor attended at least two of the commissions meetings and had no objection.
[10:05] Rose Springvale: that’s what happened when we reparcelled CN anyway
[10:05] Arria Perreault: the Guild is a NGO
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wellllllllll the Chancellor IS a member of teh guild
[10:05] Arria Perreault: not a gov agency
[10:05] Rose Springvale: does anyone have the law handy?
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: i propose an amendment
[10:06] Arria Perreault: the Chancellor can decide about land
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: change “RA requests that the New Guild ” to “RA requests that the Chancellor”
[10:06] Arria Perreault: it’s in the Constitution
[10:06] Rose Springvale: Tor? friendly?
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Because a chancellor can decide, does not mean the RA can’t
[10:06] Pip Torok: seconded
[10:06] Rose Springvale: please just cite the scripture and verse if you have it Arria
[10:06] Carolyn Saarinen: and the thumb-bone connects to the arse-bone….”
[10:06] Arria Perreault: I second Pat’s amendment
[10:07] Rose Springvale: Tor how do you feel about the suggested amendment?
[10:07] Rose Springvale: (i’d like ot hear from Sudane, i think she has to do that actual work)
[10:07] Tor Karlsvalt: no problem as long as something gets done.
[10:07] Arria Perreault: Section 2 – Powers of the Chancellor
The Chancellor of CDS shall, subject to the laws of CDS, have the power:
(a) to determine the use to which any and all land in CDS shall be put;
[10:07] Rose Springvale: okay, so we can take that as a friendly amendment
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There we go.
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Arria
[10:08] Rose Springvale: one might argue that use and size/pricing are different, but lets vote
[10:08] Arria Perreault: yw
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[10:09] Rose Springvale: in favor of changing the language of the motion to read RA requests that the Chancellor re-parcel AND re price the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
[10:09] Rose Springvale: again, only voting on the language of the motion, not the content
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:09] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:10] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:10] Pip Torok: aye
[10:10] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: do we want to keep the NG involved?
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: or just give this to the chancellor?
[10:10] Arria Perreault: The Chancellor can decide if she want to ask the Guild
[10:10] Rose Springvale: the chancellor generally gets expertise from the NG
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:10] Arria Perreault: it’s not forbidden
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: let me change it then
[10:10] Rose Springvale: wait
[10:11] Rose Springvale: we are still votign
[10:11] Rose Springvale: only 5 votes so far, not passed yet
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry — aye on the vote )))
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
RA requests that the Chancellor re-parcel AND re price the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
The parcel has been set for sale since before January 2010. Currently, it is too expensive for the market. It is priced at $L95,219.00. Depending on the the value of the Linden, this equates to about $344.00 to $380.00 USD.
The RA instructs the New Guild to consider re-parcelling AH2 into no more than four parcels with a suggestion that some of the land be designated as prim farm land that will remain free of large structures.
The Chancellor will report back to the RA with a plan for re-parceling AND RE-PRICING this plot no later than the first RA meeting after September 1, 2010.
[10:12] Arria Perreault: you hae to replace the first mention of the Guild too
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: wait have to correct paragraph second from the bottom too
[10:12] Rose Springvale: need to replace the new guild in the third paragraph
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: right
[10:12] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:12] Rose Springvale: amendment carries, lets discuss content
[10:12] Rose Springvale: does the RA support the division of this land
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: A Motion to re-parcel lot AH2 in Alpine Meadow
RA requests that the Chancellor re-parcel AND re price the large lot in AM (AH2, 4096 sq. m. located in the NW corner of Alpine Meadow sim) with the suggestion that some portion of it be used solely as prim land.
The parcel has been set for sale since before January 2010. Currently, it is too expensive for the market. It is priced at $L95,219.00. Depending on the the value of the Linden, this equates to about $344.00 to $380.00 USD.
The RA requests the Chancellor to consider re-parcelling AH2 into no more than four parcels with a suggestion that some of the land be designated as prim farm land that will remain free of large structures.
The Chancellor will report back to the RA with a plan for re-parceling AND RE-PRICING this plot no later than the first RA meeting after September 1, 2010.
[10:13] Rose Springvale: in this manner?
[10:13] Sudane Erato: question
[10:13] Rose Springvale: i have something to say, if others dont.
[10:13] Rose Springvale: okay sudane
[10:13] Sudane Erato: AM is a double-primmed sim
[10:13] Sudane Erato: and as such there is no other prim land available for a citizen to buy
[10:14] Sudane Erato: since there are so many prims on each parcel
[10:14] Sudane Erato: is it the intent to craete the only “prim parcel” that one person can buy?
[10:14] Rose Springvale: good question
[10:14] Rose Springvale: did your group discuss this Tor?
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: Well we were going to leave the number of prim land parcels to the NG
[10:15] Rose Springvale: now chancellor i presume
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: the hope was we would maintain the open area as much as possible
[10:15] Rose Springvale: thanks. Other questions?
[10:15] Patroklus Murakami: is there demand for prim lots in AM tor?
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, there is interest
[10:15] Kaseido Quandry: I’d be interested in one
[10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: in prim land
[10:16] Patroklus Murakami: ok. thx
[10:16] Rose Springvale: I’ve got one
[10:16] Pip Torok: so would AMUA
[10:17] Rose Springvale: AM is priced uniformly, all parcels at the same rate. Does it make sense to offer what will be a discount on ONE parcel, without offering it as a whole at the new discounted price? a lot of time went into planning the sim, and if price is the prohibitive factor, shouldn’t we deal with that beore chopping it up?
[10:17] Rose Springvale: lots of land in Am is already held as prim parcels
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good questions
[10:18] Rose Springvale: and it IS a double prim sim… so if some want more prims, might they choose to move to a bigger parcel if the price were reasonable?
[10:18] Rose Springvale: or is it the tier that is a problem too?
[10:18] Rose Springvale: (which i think is the problem, since the land didn’t sell even for 0 L)
[10:18] Tor Karlsvalt: True, but I think many like the parcels they are on
[10:18] Kaseido Quandry: oh, very good questions
[10:18] Pip Torok: the slope might present a problem for builds
[10:18] Tor Karlsvalt: and that parcel is concidered difficult to build on.
[10:19] Lilith Ivory nods
[10:19] Rose Springvale: it was built on before
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: true
[10:19] Rose Springvale: before it was repossessed
[10:19] Kaseido Quandry: prim farms may be the best use – and keeping the open space would be nice
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: We coudl amend the motion again
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: I always wanted to move there but can´t affort the tier (
[10:19] Rose Springvale: lets keep discussing before we amend again
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: change the AND to and AND/OR for repricing and reparcelling
[10:20] Rose Springvale: personally i’d like to see the chancellor take it to the New guild, as it was them who put the sim together
[10:20] Sonja Strom raises hand
[10:20] Rose Springvale: sonja?
[10:20] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[10:21] Sonja Strom: As Chancellor I would be happy to take this to the Guild, and we can all proceed from there.
[10:21] Sonja Strom: With all respect to this Assembly,
[10:21] Sonja Strom: I feel this matter is best completed within the domain of the Executive,
[10:21] Pip Torok wd be fine with that
[10:22] Rose Springvale: i believe the commission was dealilng with the monetary effect of the land being idle
[10:22] Sonja Strom: naturally including the wishes of the RA.
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami would be find with that too
[10:22] Rose Springvale: so were looking for ways to fix that.
[10:22] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: *fine
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: yes rose
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: that’s right
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: We wanted to see the land begin paying tier
[10:22] Rose Springvale: so lets go ahead and vote on the motion, and if the chancellor feels that we are out of line, perhaps the SC can deal with it
[10:23] Pip Torok: aye
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:23] Lilith Ivory: aye
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 24, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:30 am
[10:23] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:23] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:23] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:23] Patroklus Murakami: nay, there is no need for the bill
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well… technically you’re right lol
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in practice, it’s nice to show that the RA cares
[10:24] Pip Torok: lol
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami:
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (thus my “aye”)
[10:24] Rose Springvale: I’m opposed to the content, as i believe repricing of the whole sim should be considered before taking the plan apart, so i vote nay
[10:24] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:24] Rose Springvale: motion carries, we will see if the SC overrules it
[10:25] Arria Perreault: Rose, I have a question
[10:25] Rose Springvale: yes?
[10:25] Sudane Erato: the re-pricing COULD be considered as a “one-time special” without violating your very valid concern
[10:25] Arria Perreault: now we are voting legislation, it would go to publish the motions, bills, acts we vote on the portal and to update the legislation
[10:26] Arria Perreault: we need a RA Archivist
[10:26] Rose Springvale: thank you for your concern Arria
[10:26] Rose Springvale: we’ll consider that on a future agenda, now we are in the finance commission report
[10:26] Arria Perreault: I add I am volunteering to do this task
[10:26] Rose Springvale: we can talk later
[10:26] Patroklus Murakami: yay, thx arria
[10:26] Rose Springvale: Tor, you have another motion for the group i believe
[10:27] Rose Springvale: i am not accepting that at this time pat
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: um yes, this is more involved.
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: hold on
[10:27] Rose Springvale: post it, i’ll brb
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whoopsie
[10:27] Arria Perreault: he thanks me for volunteer. Of course, my offer can be refused …
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: A motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
Given the the Chancellor, Treasurer and the people assembled in commission meetings find the current collection rules ineffective, confusing and a hindrance to the effective management of tier collection, the following amendments are proposed to the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer may set (by posting to the CDS Forums) reasonable monthly notification and due date schedules.
ADD: The due date for the future or current month will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments.
2. The CDS Executive Branch shall provide for notice (which may be by IM or notecard) to each land owner when they have failed to pay tier rental by the established due date.
3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the
right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
4. CDS has the right to make public the lists of provisional citizens from time to time, as reasonably needed for its administration of government.
DELETE 5. One calendar month after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall send another notice to the landowner warning of imminent reclamation (loss of the land). Fourteen days after that 1-month notice is sent, the CDS Executive Branch shall re-take ownership of the land, and the owner shall be removed from ‘provisional citizen’ status. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further intere
[10:29] Rose Springvale: okay, this is a motion from committee, so technically doesn’t need a second, but i’d like one for the record please
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: interest in the parcel.
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds it.
[10:29] muhammedyussif Wikinger: second
[10:29] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: it is very long
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: does not go in chat well
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: would a nc be better?
[10:29] Patroklus Murakami: could you summarise the impact pls?
[10:30] Rose Springvale: is there more? yes, and lets put in the box
[10:30] Patroklus Murakami: what changes as a result of passing this motion?
[10:30] Rose Springvale: hold on a second while we get the text in front of eveyrone
[10:31] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘CDS RA Agenda July 24 2010’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: i can’t add to the box
[10:32] Rose Springvale: just give me your notecard
[10:32] Arria Perreault: it is in forum
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tor, perhaps you could give it to Rose, she’ll put it inside the box
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah good, Arria
[10:32] Arria Perreault: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3007
[10:32] You decline ‘CDS RA Agenda July 24 2010’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ) from Object.
[10:32] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘Motion to amend NL 9-2’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[10:33] Rose Springvale: there now
[10:33] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[10:33] Rose Springvale: okay. do you want to summarize for the assembly Tor?
[10:33] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: Currently the Chancelor and Treasurer find the law inadaquat
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: it leaves a loophole allowing landowners a way to avoid paying tier
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: and allows for some to skip paying tier when selling land.
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: So
[10:35] Tor Karlsvalt: This law will allow the Treas to reclaim but hold in reserve parcles if teir is overdue 14 days after the boxes close
[10:36] Rose Springvale: this shortens the current time substantially, correct?
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: then re-sell 30 days after the boxes close
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[10:36] Rose Springvale: so instead of a 3 month period without payments
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: boxes close on the 24th of evry month
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha yes. I see the issue… you could just stop paying tier one month before selling land, then tier would be the next owner’s issue… and in the mean time, for a month, nobody would have paid tier.
[10:36] Rose Springvale: the land could become productive again after 6 weeks?
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Rose
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: looks like it
[10:37] Rose Springvale: and you still would not allow prepayments, correct?
[10:37] Sudane Erato: we do not now have a provision for pre-payments
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, not yet
[10:38] Tor Karlsvalt: yes that is right rose, we do not have a provision for pre-paymens
[10:38] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one question (for clarification): “ADD 6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above.”
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this means that if you own, say, 3 plots…
[10:38] Tor Karlsvalt: in fact the current law is really no law at all as it was suspened pending establishment of prepayment system
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and forget to pay for one… the CDS can reclaim all the others?
[10:38] Rose Springvale nods
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry nods at Gwyn
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami: that seems excessive
[10:38] Kaseido Quandry: which is grossly unjust
[10:38] Rose Springvale: forget… with the number of notices
[10:39] Rose Springvale: seems a bit unrealistic
[10:39] Sudane Erato: the current system is that you pay for all at once… regardless
[10:39] Lilith Ivory: are not all tier payments collected from one box?
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm. I see. There is here a detachment of the notion of “paying fees” from “being a citizen”. A citizen is someone who pays ALL fees.
[10:39] Rose Springvale: i believe there is still provision for contact by the chancellor before forfeiture as well, correct?
[10:39] Sudane Erato: yes Lilith
[10:39] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so… this doesn’t really apply, does it?
[10:39] Rose Springvale: not sure what you are saying gwyn
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean hmm
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you cannot pay half the fee for a third of your land
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: either you pay it all,
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or not at all.
[10:40] Sudane Erato: correct
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: right gwyn
[10:40] Rose Springvale: Sudane, if someone forfeits land though, intentionally, it comes off the box, correct?
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this item is really not necessary?
[10:40] Arria Perreault: can people abandon a land if they have someissue to pay?
[10:40] Rose Springvale: all they need to id notify?
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: that was the intention of the law to begin with
[10:40] Sudane Erato: yes, Rose, it does
[10:40] Rose Springvale: *is notify.
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah wait… so the idea, Tor, is that this law validates how the land management system actually works?
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: right
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If so, I don’t have any objection!
[10:41] Rose Springvale: As tor said, this is pretty complicated legislation, and we have more items on todays agenda. Do we want to review this more and take it up next week?
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: the law as currently in force, really hampers the treasurer
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you’re right! We should make sure that the laws reflect what we already do (de jure following de facto )
[10:42] Arria Perreault: Tor, Sudane, I would like to know if can people abandon a land if they have someissue to pay, with this updated law?
[10:42] Kaseido Quandry: I’d be happy to support this – *with* prepayments
[10:42] Rose Springvale: agreed kas.
[10:42] Sudane Erato: people can always abandon land
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn would love that too.
[10:42] Patroklus Murakami: i’d be interested to hear sudane and sonja’s views before voting on this
[10:42] Rose Springvale: do we have a motion to extend or table to the next meeting?
[10:42] Kaseido Quandry: move to table to next meeting
[10:42] Rose Springvale: second?
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: second
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[10:43] Arria Perreault: yes, I second
[10:43] Rose Springvale: thank you, all in favor?
[10:43] Sudane Erato: i’m supportive of what Tor is proposing
[10:43] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:43] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:43] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:43] Arria Perreault: we need to talk about this in the forums
[10:43] Pip Torok: aye
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami: ty sudane
[10:43] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But please, I’d love to second Pat’s suggestion as well — let’s have some info and suggestions from Sudane & Sonja
[10:43] Rose Springvale: thank you all, We’ll extend this discussion to the next meeting, on thursday or saturday, depending on the Commission chairs schedule
[10:43] Rose Springvale: please watch notices.
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: .)
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:44] Rose Springvale: thank you Tor, i know this is hard work and it is work we need to do carefully
[10:44] Arria Perreault: when is the next meeting?
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:44] Soro Dagostino: RL calls
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: it is a joy
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[10:44] Rose Springvale: thanks for coming Soro
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Tor. I agree with Rose, and I think we’re pretty close to agree on that
[10:44] Arria Perreault: bye Soro
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See you, Soro!
[10:44] Rose Springvale: next item on the agenda is a discussion of the by election.
[10:44] Sonja Strom is thankful to Tor, and believes this issue can move forward quickly
[10:44] Rose Springvale: As you all know, with the withdrawal of Al Andalus, we have lost one member of the RA
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[10:45] Tor Karlsvalt: awwww
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:45] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:45] Rose Springvale: this leaves us one member short per the certiffied number of the representatives for this term
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … unless that member quickly buys a plot…
[10:45] Rose Springvale: but also leaves the RA at an even number, which we cannot leave
[10:45] Rose Springvale: he’s declined. i’ve asked
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Dang
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:45] Tor Karlsvalt: we have lots for sale
[10:45] Rose Springvale: My reading of the STV legislation says we must have a by election to fill the seat, so would propose that we send this to the SC to establish
[10:46] Rose Springvale: and carrry on as soon as possible
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well that really means we have to go with that…
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:46] Rose Springvale: Any thoughts?
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let me re-read that bit of law… I think it’s automatic,
[10:46] Rose Springvale: still they need to set dates
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. we really wouldn’t need to ask the SC for establishment
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no… the RA sets dates… that wasn’t changed yet
[10:47] Rose Springvale: okay, but someone oversees the voting…. yes?
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn just asks for a few minutes!
[10:47] Rose Springvale: not on the agenda! lol
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe ok
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: fair’s fair
[10:47] Rose Springvale: does someone wish to propose dates then?
[10:48] Tor Karlsvalt: probably need to give ppl two weeks
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry Rose. You ARE right.
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My apologies!
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Vacancies in RA positions will be filled by by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law.”
[10:48] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Straight from the Constitution.
[10:48] Rose Springvale: so lets refer it to the SC shall we?
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, motion to move it to the SC immediately.
[10:48] Arria Perreault: let the SC do it
[10:48] Rose Springvale: thank you.
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:48] Tor Karlsvalt: ok cool we are off the hook
[10:48] Patroklus Murakami: second
[10:48] Rose Springvale: arria is that a second to gywns motion..okay pat
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Tor
[10:48] Arria Perreault: I am not sure the SC needs a motion
[10:49] Rose Springvale: doesn’t hurt
[10:49] Arria Perreault: second
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think so, either, but it doesn’t hurt…. right EOse
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Rose even
[10:49] Rose Springvale: lets just vote to refer and ask the SC to help us asap
[10:49] Arria Perreault: it’s an automatic process
[10:49] Arria Perreault: The SC must only know about the fact one RA memer is gone
[10:49] Rose Springvale: expected discussion of the fact that now we will each be representing about 5 people.. but okay
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s another story, but RA members are elected based on the number of citizens at the time of election; fluctuations are just accounted for at the next term.
[10:50] Pip Torok: which member has gone btw?
[10:50] Rose Springvale: the SC will be meeting monday i believe, so we can let them take it up
[10:50] Rose Springvale: Stui
[10:50] Pip Torok: ah ….
[10:50] Arria Perreault: I see Delia ….
[10:50] Rose Springvale: so no need to vote, fine. we can move on
[10:50] Delia Lake: the SC will meet at noon slt on Monday
[10:50] Rose Springvale: thank you Delia
[10:51] Rose Springvale: will you take judicial notice that we don’t need to vote on this motion?
[10:51] Kaseido Quandry: Delia, could the SC meetings get onto the calendar?
[10:51] Delia Lake: yes
[10:51] Rose Springvale: ty
[10:51] Delia Lake: and yes
[10:51] Rose Springvale: We are to item V, concerns of RA members, with a prayer of finishing close to on time. Floor is open
[10:52] Rose Springvale: any concerns
[10:52] Rose Springvale: ?
[10:52] Rose Springvale: let me address the issue of archivist
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes please
[10:52] Rose Springvale: Cindy has volunteered to help as well but i havn’t seen her for a while, and since arria is already chairing a commission, makes sense to me to spread the wealth
[10:53] Rose Springvale: i think Cindy is travelling, but will be in touch with her to see if she is still interested
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie
[10:53] Rose Springvale: i believe she has the skills to do the work as well
[10:53] Arria Perreault: Rose, I have an access to the portal and I a used to
[10:53] Arria Perreault: it’s not a big work for me
[10:54] Rose Springvale: yes arria, but i think we need to have more people with those skills involved, so lets just hold for now
[10:54] Arria Perreault: anyway, the position is elected
[10:54] Arria Perreault: by the RA
[10:54] Rose Springvale: thank you for your input. we’ll have it on the agenda in a future meeting. There have been several terms where no RA Archivist was elected at all, i’m not concerned
[10:54] Rose Springvale: other issues?
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: i propose arria for RA archivist
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suppose that teh major problem is to make sure that the backlog of laws is posted on the portal… whole years are missing
[10:55] Rose Springvale: indeed gwyn, but this term will be there
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d second that, Pat
[10:55] Arria Perreault: it’s a problem for citizen who don’t have an updated legislation
[10:55] Patroklus Murakami: or perhaps we could propose both as joint archivists?
[10:55] Rose Springvale: folks, this is out of order
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[10:55] Rose Springvale: this is just discussion of concerns, no motions
[10:55] Arria Perreault: especially if we change the law about the way we pay fees
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that in effect creates a new role and a new item on the budget
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and sorry, Rose, you’re right.
[10:56] Rose Springvale: Any other issues?
[10:56] Tor Karlsvalt: lunch
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:56] Rose Springvale: 4 more minutes Tor!
[10:56] Rose Springvale: if there are no more concerns of the RA, we can move to announcements
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that.
[10:57] Arria Perreault: I have one
[10:57] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:57] Rose Springvale: go ahead Arria
[10:57] Arria Perreault: ty
[10:58] Arria Perreault: The Roman regional committee have decided to make a party on the beach on the 1st August
[10:58] Rose Springvale: oh, you are on announcements?
[10:58] Arria Perreault: Calli will DJ
[10:58] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:58] Rose Springvale: not concerns? let me make sure we are finished with concerns first please… Folks? any more?
[10:58] Arria Perreault: (I told my concern already)
[10:59] Rose Springvale: last meeting there was concern about the departure of Arias, and i thought you wanted to talk about that, but happy to move on
[10:59] Arria Perreault: yes, of course
[10:59] Rose Springvale: okay, announcements
[10:59] Arria Perreault: we can talk about that
[10:59] Kaseido Quandry: Might that be more appropriate for the town hall meeting?
[11:00] Carolyn Saarinen: He’s actually gone at last?
[11:00] Pip Torok agrees with Kas
[11:00] Delia Lake: /
[11:00] Arria Perreault: I think CDS has to find a new dynamic and integrate new citizen with ideas and projects
[11:00] Rose Springvale: and how do you think that failed in this case?
[11:00] Carolyn Saarinen: More curtain calls than sinatra
[11:00] Pip Torok: need to define “gone” or “left”
[11:00] Patroklus Murakami think this will not end well….
[11:00] Kaseido Quandry agrees
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: As long as you all know he wanted to contoll all of LA for his university.
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript of CDS RA Meeting, July 24, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Jul 24, 2010 11:33 am
[11:00] Rose Springvale: Arria wanted to talk about it
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm. Why is that a RA concern? With due respect to Arias, are we really going to review why all citizens come and go from the CDS, here at the RA?
[11:01] Pip Torok: ???? Tor?
[11:01] Rose Springvale: i promised to let her air her concern, so that’s why it is here
[11:01] Arria Perreault: I don’t think Arias wanted to “control” LA
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:01] Kaseido Quandry: Agreed, this is a community, not a legislative, issue
[11:01] Arria Perreault: he did not pushed me out the sims
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And with due respect to Arria as well for bringing up the issue…
[11:01] Rose Springvale: Arria, are you satisfied that your concern as a legislator has been met?
[11:01] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think we should discuss ppl who are not here and their motives. i think this issue shd be discussed at another time and place
[11:01] Arria Perreault: my concern is that we have to be open with people with ideas
[11:02] Rose Springvale: and you think we are not
[11:02] Arria Perreault: I don’t think we need a law for that
[11:02] Rose Springvale: okay, thank you
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Pat and Kas. This is really not the place not the time
[11:02] Rose Springvale: lets move to announcements
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, please.
[11:02] Arria Perreault: ok
[11:02] Carolyn Saarinen chortles
[11:02] Rose Springvale: Arria has announced a beach party on August !?
[11:02] Pip Torok: no but keeping that in mind is a good thing Arria
[11:02] Rose Springvale: 1?
[11:02] Rose Springvale: sorry, missed the date
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: wooot
[11:02] Arria Perreault: The Roman regional committee have decided to make a party on the beach on the 1st August
[11:03] Rose Springvale: and is the Inaugural ball the day before, with the same dj?
[11:03] Arria Perreault: I will check the right time and publish it
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: busy weekend I see
[11:03] Rose Springvale: might want to coordinate with the chancellor
[11:03] Rose Springvale: Sonja, is that correct, the ball is on the 31st?
[11:03] Arria Perreault: we have discussed that
[11:03] Arria Perreault: and Calli have informed SOnja
[11:04] Arria Perreault: why not to have fun an entire weekn edn
[11:04] Sonja Strom: Yes, the Inaugural Ball is scheduled for the 31st,
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:04] Rose Springvale: smiles, we are the party project after all.
[11:04] Arria Perreault: we love parties
[11:04] Sonja Strom: and then a Beach Party is scheduled for the 1st.
[11:04] Sonja Strom: Why not?
[11:04] Rose Springvale: any other announcements?
[11:04] Sonja Strom: I think both sound fun
[11:05] Rose Springvale: okay, then lets have a motion to adjourn please
[11:05] Patroklus Murakami: so moved
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[11:05] Rose Springvale: thank you,
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconsd
[11:05] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[11:05] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[11:05] Pip Torok: aye
[11:05] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: and, congratulations to us on getting through an entire meeting without so much as snarking, let alone fighting!
[11:06] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:06] Patroklus Murakami: hear, hear kas
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:06] Rose Springvale: thank you all for your service. Please try to get your meetings up with as much notice as possible, and expect to continue the Finance commission report either on thursday or saturday this week
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I knew something was missing…
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[11:06] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:06] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[11:06] Jeroma Wycliffe: Most edifying
[11:06] Rose Springvale: taking the record now

Permalink.

RA Meeting 29 July 2010

Transcript, RA meeting July 29, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:32 pm
[11:03] Rose Springvale: we can take some time for citizens concerns and go on the record now, while we wait for quorum
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: mine is on the way
[11:03] Rose Springvale: no, i was touring steampunk sims Tor lol
[11:03] Rose Springvale: lets start
[11:04] Pip Torok: think of a desktop as an ipad thats too heave!
[11:04] Arria Perreault: agrees with Rose’s proposal
[11:04] Pip Torok: heavy
[11:04] Rose Springvale: this is a continuation of the RA meeting from last saturday, which we have called to complete the work on the Finance commissions current proposal
[11:04] Keila Forager: Hi Tor
[11:04] Keila Forager: Lilith
[11:04] Lilith Ivory smiles
[11:04] Keila Forager: Pip
[11:04] Lilith Ivory: hiya
[11:04] Rose Springvale: That is all that we have on the agenda today, but we can do citizens concerns now. Remember that anything you say will be transcripted
[11:04] Rose Springvale: Any citizens want to speak?
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Kas
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: hi Tor
[11:05] Rose Springvale: kas!
[11:05] Kaseido Quandry: hi Rose!
[11:05] Arria Perreault: as citizen I have a request
[11:05] Rose Springvale: i think we will have quorum now, once Gwyn gets here
[11:05] Rose Springvale: okay, go on Arria
[11:06] Lilith Ivory: Hi Kas
[11:07] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Calli
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hello!
[11:07] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Gwyn
[11:07] Kaseido Quandry: Hi Lil! Wow, you look different! I like it!
[11:07] Lilith Ivory: Hi Calli, hi Gwyn
[11:07] Rose Springvale: welcome CAlli and gwyy, you make quorum
[11:07] Callipygian Christensen waves hello
[11:07] Lilith Ivory: thank you
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew sorry…. teleporting was a bit tough
[11:07] Lilith Ivory: sometimes I get tired of my 2007 skin hehe
[11:07] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand the grid had some problems a bit ago??
[11:08] Kaseido Quandry: lol, yep!
[11:08] Kaseido Quandry: yes, logins were down this morning
[11:08] Rose Springvale: aArria is on an ipad and has a citizen request she’s typing in
[11:08] Lilith Ivory: yes I had a lot of trouble to come online
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: yes it did
[11:08] Keila Forager: A meltdown..LOL usually happens after server updates..hehe
[11:08] Rose Springvale: smiles, was waiting for me i guess. I had no issues lol
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lucky Rose
[11:08] Lilith Ivory: lol, my groupe note came via mail
[11:08] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:09] Lilith Ivory: did not get it inworld
[11:09] Rose Springvale: maybe we should send an im then
[11:09] Lilith Ivory: might be wise
[11:10] Keila Forager: [Updated 9:40 am PST] The issue that we are currently experiencing has been identified. However, we do not have an expected ETA. As soon as we have further information we will update this blog.
[8:48 am PST] We are aware that there are various technical issues taking place currently inworld and on the website. We are investigating this situation and working towards a quick resolution.
Some of the symptoms involved are difficulty to teleport, transactions failing and the inability to login. Please refrain from making inworld transactions, inventory transfers or rezzing items inworld. Please check this blog for further updates.
[11:10] Rose Springvale: does anyone else have citizen concerns?
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: did Arria crash?
[11:10] Rose Springvale: think we lost arria
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: went through a tunnel
[11:10] Rose Springvale: keila, Calli? anything you want to talk about?
[11:10] Callipygian Christensen: Translation: usual problem, please stand still until further notice
[11:10] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:10] Keila Forager: Nope..
[11:10] Pip Torok: can I suggest we hear Arria when she resurfaces?
[11:11] Keila Forager: not right now
[11:11] Rose Springvale: well, until she does we don’t havea quorum, so can’t really do anything anyway
[11:11] Pip Torok: ah!
[11:11] Callipygian Christensen: well we could remind people that the inaugural ball is on Saturday
[11:12] Rose Springvale: time?
[11:12] Pip Torok: yes (and dont forget that party calli)
[11:12] Lilith Ivory: I talked to some citizens yesterday who were concerned about floating flags and other items
[11:12] Callipygian Christensen: apparently not doing anything includes opening textures lol
[11:12] Rose Springvale: do we have dates for the by election? i know i got a note, just haven’t read it
[11:12] Lilith Ivory: maybe we could ask the executive to have a look and fix it
[11:13] Callipygian Christensen: 12 noon to 2 pm
[11:13] Rose Springvale: floating flags? more than the ones we did last night?
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH yes. We have a “strong recommendation” by teh SC to approve some dates
[11:13] Rose Springvale: thanks Calli
[11:13] Callipygian Christensen: and yes, a beach party on Sunday in LA
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Calli
[11:13] Lilith Ivory: there seem to be more things like the ones you fixed yesterday
[11:13] Rose Springvale: smiles. bet there won’t be volleyball
[11:13] Kaseido Quandry snickers
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn found a rental box from Emory down below at ground level.
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: I see sudane set property in LA for sale.
[11:13] Callipygian Christensen: ha..there will be….*drum roll*…
[11:13] Rose Springvale: i suggest we make a list and send them to the chancellor
[11:14] Callipygian Christensen: lawn darts!
[11:14] Rose Springvale: yes???
[11:14] Rose Springvale: ahhh
[11:14] Callipygian Christensen: total fun until someone loses an eye
[11:14] Rose Springvale: now thats roman themed … hehe
[11:14] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: i have some back up eys in inventory
[11:14] Rose Springvale: thanks for your work on those parties Calli
[11:14] Keila Forager: add some gladiator games..lol
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: And I guess this is the first meeting without Pat as a member.
[11:15] Lilith Ivory: I can bring my lion!
[11:15] Callipygian Christensen: oh, I am not doing much other than playing music and announcing, but thank you lol
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Arria
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, Arria, I didn’t see your IM!!!
[11:15] Rose Springvale: ah, great, arria is back
[11:15] Pip Torok: wb Arria
[11:15] Rose Springvale: lets start our meeting and go back to the concerns when Tor is finished
[11:15] Callipygian Christensen: lilith..it can battle my tiger
[11:15] Rose Springvale: so we are sure to get our work done today
[11:15] Arria Perreault: sorry, we went through several tunnels
[11:15] Lilith Ivory: hehe good idea
[11:15] Rose Springvale: Tor, do you want to put your motion up again? i think its in the box on the table still
[11:16] Arria Perreault: i will tell my concern at the end
[11:16] Rose Springvale: kk
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: i don’t think it is
[11:16] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘CDS RA Agenda July 24 2010’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: oh it is
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[11:16] Rose Springvale: amendment of NL9-2
[11:16] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘Motion to amend NL 9-2’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[11:16] Arria Perreault: i would be happy if you paste it in the chat
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: it is too long to post in chat
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: or i could just post each section
[11:17] Arria Perreault: i cannot open notecard
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:17] Rose Springvale: section by section is okay Tor
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: let me try
[11:17] Lilith Ivory nods
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: A motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
Given the the Chancellor, Treasurer and the people assembled in commission meetings find the current collection rules ineffective, confusing and a hindrance to the effective management of tier collection, the following amendments are proposed to the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
[color=SlateGray]1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer may set (by posting to the CDS Forums) reasonable monthly notification and due date schedules.
ADD: The due date for the future or current month will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments.
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: 2. The CDS Executive Branch shall provide for notice (which may be by IM or notecard) to each land owner when they have failed to pay tier rental by the established due date.
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: 4. CDS has the right to make public the lists of provisional citizens from time to time, as reasonably needed for its administration of government.
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 5. One calendar month after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall send another notice to the landowner warning of imminent reclamation (loss of the land). Fourteen days after that 1-month notice is sent, the CDS Executive Branch shall re-take ownership of the land, and the owner shall be removed from ‘provisional citizen’ status. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel. All objects on the parcel at the time of reclamation shall be returned, and a notice of the reclamation sent to the landowner.
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 5. Fourteen days after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be not be returned to the landowner nor will the parcels be set for re-sale until 30 days after the due date has passed. Notice of this reclamation and impending loss to regain the reclaimed parcels will be sent to the landowner. Thirty days after the due date, if the landowner has continued to not pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS will return all objects on parcels. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel.
[11:18] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, and reaches the one-month notice above, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above. However, this paragraph 6 shall only be in force on and after the date on which CDS government has posted a method by which absent landowners can effectively prepay rent, in amounts at least up to 3 months’ in advance.
ADD 6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above.
[11:19] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: 7. The CDS Executive Branch is encouraged to take reasonable additional steps to notify citizens of past due amounts and all other matters described in this Act, but timely rent payment primarily is the citizen’s responsibility to monitor.
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: 8. This law repeals any provisions of prior CDS laws (including NL 7-6 [http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=208]) that specify land reclamation or rent payment methods, to the extent that they contradict the explicit terms of this law.
Adopted by the RA 4 January 2009
[11:19] Rose Springvale: thanks
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: that is the whold act including amendments
[11:19] Rose Springvale: Now to review, i believe this motion is on the floor, duly seconded
[11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[11:20] Rose Springvale: i also would like to point out that the Treasure indicated she supported it at the last meeting
[11:20] Rose Springvale: so.. discussion?
[11:20] Tor Karlsvalt: true
[11:20] Arria Perreault: i have a question
[11:20] Rose Springvale: arria?
[11:20] Arria Perreault: no more tunnels
[11:20] Tor Karlsvalt: woot
[11:21] Arria Perreault: what mean these 5 days ? do we have only 5 days to pay?
[11:21] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[11:21] Tor Karlsvalt: jsut a limitation on the treasure
[11:21] Tor Karlsvalt: she sets the payment schedule
[11:21] Arria Perreault: c
[11:22] Rose Springvale: Does this mean that the actual due date is 5 days after boxes open?
[11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: currenlty you have until the boxes open on the 28th of the month through the 24th i think
[11:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* I think so too
[11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: it can’t be any earlier
[11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: we can remove it
[11:22] Rose Springvale: why don’t we have a set day though?
[11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: we don’t
[11:22] Rose Springvale: i know
[11:22] Arria Perreault: the 24 of the next month? i seenow
[11:22] Tor Karlsvalt: the treas sets the date
[11:23] Rose Springvale: so technically, people can have a full month before they are even past due, then another 14 days?
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: but the treas has no limitations on that date
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh wait… I thought it was just 14 days?
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: rose that is correct
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so, 6 weeks instead of 3 months…
[11:23] Rose Springvale: yes
[11:23] Rose Springvale: still too long for me
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: well the boxes are open until the 4th
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: 24th
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with Rose!
[11:23] Kaseido Quandry: Agreed
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[11:23] Tor Karlsvalt: we can shorten it, but…
[11:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I really don’t see why just 14 days is not enough
[11:24] Lilith Ivory: there might be RL issues that keep you away from paying
[11:24] Rose Springvale: what if we change that window of being open for 4 weeks, but also provide for prepayments
[11:24] Kaseido Quandry agrees with Gwyn
[11:24] Pip Torok agrees with Gwyn
[11:24] Lilith Ivory: I think we should have a month to pay
[11:24] Rose Springvale: Lilith, eveyr other sim in SL seems to be able to handle it
[11:24] Arria Perreault: i agree with Lilith
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Tor… “but”. So, what would be the real consequences of that?
[11:24] Tor Karlsvalt: we could. but not sure of your current system is capable of that
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well we’re the RA — we *demand* things to happen
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[11:24] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:24] Tor Karlsvalt: we do have a month to pay
[11:24] Tor Karlsvalt: from the 24th to the 28th
[11:24] Rose Springvale: well, that’s just tradition, not law
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: then 14 days later too
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: right
[11:25] Rose Springvale: i think the issue is citizenship revocation, or has been in the past
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: the period is set by the treas
[11:25] Arria Perreault: guys, I am back in some minutes. i ‘ll run home
[11:25] Lilith Ivory: even LL gives me a few weeks to give them my money
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And Rose is right…. on my other parcels, if I don’t pay, I get icked out. Immediately. No questions asked. The only nice guy I know out there (besides the CDS!) is Prokofy Neva, who never kicked me out even if I failed to pay for a few days…
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *kicked
[11:25] Pip Torok: one advantage of a tighter timescale is to indicate whether a citizen is still interested
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, pip
[11:25] Rose Springvale: and to keep our cash flow stable
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: well funny
[11:25] Kaseido Quandry: I agree – the places I’ve rented before, it’s 5 days grace, but prepayments are possible
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyone who is really interested will make sure the payment is on time
[11:26] Tor Karlsvalt: i would be in favor of a tighter schedule
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:26] Tor Karlsvalt: thought you guys would not
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[11:26] Rose Springvale: and if they know they are going to be gone, or if there are extenuating circumstances, the Exec can show discretion
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re more evil and greedy than you thought
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[11:26] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[11:26] Pip Torok: interesting … )
[11:26] Lilith Ivory: well when I had payment issues in the past I informed Sudane about them and everything was fine
[11:26] Tor Karlsvalt: but the boxes are open until the 24th
[11:26] Rose Springvale: yes
[11:26] Rose Springvale: well, we can close them earlier
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let them close until…. right, Rose
[11:27] Tor Karlsvalt: it has been tradition that ppl have until then to pay
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what Rose said.
[11:27] Rose Springvale: cant’ we script girl?
[11:27] Rose Springvale: smiels
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And you know — this is the first time I heard this!
[11:27] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand?
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *thought* they would be closed on the last day lol
[11:27] Rose Springvale: yes Calli?
[11:27] Callipygian Christensen: Can the boxes be set so that people have a month to pay, but that payment is for the following month
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[11:27] Rose Springvale: that
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Calli <3
[11:27] Rose Springvale: s how the rest of sl works
[11:27] Tor Karlsvalt: they have to close in order to reopen for the next month
[11:27] Callipygian Christensen: that way payment is always current..but people still have the one month time frame to do so
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, yes!
[11:28] Rose Springvale: (which is why we wanted the hippo system)
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes )
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:28] Callipygian Christensen: also means any reposession is far more timely
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: my goal was to shore up a loophole and not change things too much
[11:28] Rose Springvale: i think we as RA can adopt the law and turn it over to the exec office to figure out implementations
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so too.
[11:28] Rose Springvale: RA had approved a change three terms ago i think
[11:28] Pip Torok agrees as well
[11:29] Rose Springvale: looking at the language of the motions…
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: problem with the law as writtin is that secion six was suspended pending establishment of pre-payment
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: effecively this gutted the law
[11:29] Rose Springvale: yes, well, we should have implemented that by now
[11:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[11:30] Rose Springvale: so Tor, if we want to change to a 14 day grace period only, how would you change the language?
[11:30] Tor Karlsvalt: not to mentionthe fact that mose landowners own more than one parcel
[11:30] Pip Torok: Tor, would the remit of the Fincial Commission include implememntation?
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s currently irrelevan, Tor, since we pay for them all at the same time.
[11:31] Rose Springvale: i thnk that is reserved to the exec Pip, not for the commission.
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I mean we don’t need to worry about that extra responsibility
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt: right, but section six dealt with owners of more than one parcel
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True.
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Scrap it! lol
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt: since most onwnmore than one, nobody could get legally reclaijmed
[11:32] Rose Springvale: i don’t have a problem reclaiming all if one is unpaid
[11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: um 14 period
[11:32] Rose Springvale: since it was made clear that anyone can abaondon anytime
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neither do I — because you actually don’t pay them separately anyway
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a lump sum, always
[11:32] Rose Springvale: what do the rest of you think?
[11:33] Pip Torok: personally I dont have a problem with it
[11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn thinks that Arria dropped…
[11:33] Kaseido Quandry: since it’s a lump sum, agreed
[11:33] Rose Springvale: she said she’d be right back Gwyn
[11:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh… sorry…. yes, she was near home
[11:33] Rose Springvale: what if it isn’t a lumpsum? if we switch systems, i could be by parcel
[11:33] Tor Karlsvalt: ok we could change section five to read 14 days after the 1st of hte month
[11:34] Lilith Ivory: in this case only the parcel thas isn´t payd for imo
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I would be fine with that Tor)
[11:34] Rose Springvale: make the 1rst of the month the due date? might take a one time adjustment to bring eveyrone to that date
[11:34] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I always thought it would work that way!!
[11:34] Pip Torok: nods
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a complete surprise to me that I actually could pay up to the 24th …. lol
[11:34] Rose Springvale: well, other than the fact that we dont’ actually HAVE a due date, it does
[11:34] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn is silly
[11:35] Rose Springvale puts her tier money back in her pocket for a few more days hehe
[11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[11:35] Lilith Ivory: I tried sometimes but was not able to let Rudeen starve
[11:35] Rose Springvale: any other issues with this motion?
[11:35] Rose Springvale: lol
[11:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:35] Lilith Ivory smiles
[11:36] Rose Springvale: i’d like to add an amendment that says, tier can be prepaid by contacting the treasurer directly
[11:36] Rose Springvale: because that’s how it actually happens
[11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh ok
[11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[11:36] Tor Karlsvalt: do you want the amended section five
[11:36] Lilith Ivory: I totally agree
[11:36] Pip Torok: ok by me too
[11:36] Rose Springvale: unless we change systems
[11:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Rose
[11:36] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 5. Fourteen days after the 1st of the month for which tier is due, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be not be returned to the landowner nor will the parcels be set for re-sale until 30 days after the due date has passed. Notice of this reclamation and impending loss to regain the reclaimed parcels will be sent to the landowner. At the end of the month, if the landowner has continued to not pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS will return all objects on parcels. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel.
[11:37] Rose Springvale: i’d change that to notice after 3 days and return at 14
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So this would mean that 2 weeks after failing to pay, the land would be locked; and at the end of the month, sold.
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[11:37] Rose Springvale: still looks like 6 weeks to me
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d also prefer Rose’s wording.
[11:37] Lilith Ivory: I´m fine with that
[11:37] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:37] Rose Springvale: and i’d suggest we add “so long as all tier is billed as one payment”
[11:38] Rose Springvale: so that we can reconsider Liliths issue if we change systems
[11:38] Rose Springvale: wb Kas
[11:38] Lilith Ivory: wb Kas
[11:38] Rose Springvale: so that only delinquent land be forfeited, if we separate parcels
[11:38] Tor Karlsvalt: ok not sure where all of this is going
[11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[11:38] Rose Springvale: maybe we need to take it section by section
[11:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh.
[11:39] Tor Karlsvalt: can we add the bit on pre payment to section1
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I also don’t see a problem with Rose’s suggestion….
[11:40] Kaseido Quandry: .
[11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer may set (by posting to the CDS Forums) reasonable monthly notification and due date schedules.
ADD: The due date for the future or current month will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Pre-payments for several months can be specially arranged by contacting the Treasurer.
[11:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gah.
[11:40] Rose Springvale: 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set (by posting to the CDS Forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter.
[11:41] Tor Karlsvalt: looks good and better than i was typing
[11:41] Rose Springvale: And most sims limit prepayments to 12 weeks at the most i think
[11:41] Kaseido Quandry: yep
[11:41] Rose Springvale: because of the SL instability issues
[11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, I remove my suggestion and prefer Rose’s.
[11:41] Rose Springvale: hehe
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, perhaps just adding: Pre-payments can be specially arranged by contacting the Treasurer.
[11:42] Rose Springvale: yes, better
[11:42] Kaseido Quandry: Good!
[11:42] Rose Springvale: she will kill us if eveyrone starts wanting to prepay, with out a new system anyway
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: With no limits — it’ll be up to the Treasurer
[11:42] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[11:42] Pip Torok would take advantage of that
[11:42] Tor Karlsvalt: yes that is what i was typing
[11:42] Rose Springvale: wb arria
[11:42] Tor Karlsvalt: Landowoners must contact the treadurer directly to arrange pre-payemnt as necessary.
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes I know. Thus bumping the issue to a higher priority
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Tor
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with that!
[11:43] Rose Springvale: okay, thats good for section one.
[11:43] Tor Karlsvalt: sans the spelling mistakes
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Arria!!
[11:43] Rose Springvale: i think 2 and 3 are okay as written
[11:43] Rose Springvale: 4, i have issues with, but that’s the law now isn’t it?
[11:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww how sweet Arria — but you stood up before I could take a picture of you sitting on Pip’s lap!
[11:44] Pip Torok: spoil-sport!
[11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Could you tell us your issues with 4, Rose?
[11:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m assuming it’s about the citizens’ list?…
[11:45] Rose Springvale: well, its akin to debtors prison lol. Publishing the names of delinquent people
[11:45] Kaseido Quandry: Yes, I don’t see any reason for public shaming
[11:46] Rose Springvale: especially since…
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that the point was to have a current citizens’ list…
[11:46] Pip Torok: I think the 2as reasonably needed” is the opening for discretion …
[11:46] Rose Springvale: in reality, we get a current list about once per term
[11:46] Kaseido Quandry: Which we need twice a year, and have other legal provisions mandating it already
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m persuaded you’re right
[11:46] Kaseido Quandry:
[11:46] Rose Springvale: no need to make more work for the treasurer or chancellor, which is why i’d propose this change:
[11:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, do you move to delete that sentence?
[11:46] Rose Springvale: ADD 5. Fourteen days after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be be returned to the landowner and the parcels be set for re-sale
[11:47] Tor Karlsvalt: ok strike section four
[11:47] Rose Springvale: smiels, lets get the whole thing together then adjust the motion
[11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And strike 4.
[11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[11:47] Pip Torok: ok
[11:47] Rose Springvale: do you all agree that 14 days is enough?
[11:47] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[11:47] Pip Torok: yes
[11:47] Rose Springvale: for reclaim and return, no extra notices too?
[11:47] Rose Springvale: Tor, what do you think? you met with the people
[11:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there will be one notice….
[11:48] Rose Springvale: and the boxes give notice too
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
[11:48] Tor Karlsvalt: the commission was more inclide to be hard
[11:48] Rose Springvale: oh good :0
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh goodie!
[11:48] Rose Springvale: so we can be too lol
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we won’t disappoint them
[11:48] Keila Forager: as a citizen, 14 days is more than enough time.
[11:48] Tor Karlsvalt: the consesnsus as always that this is an individual responsibilyt
[11:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: my my. So much consensus, I’m feeling queasy
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Tor. And we want responsible citizens!
[11:49] Rose Springvale: yes, and with 7, the chancellor still has discretion to send notices
[11:49] Tor Karlsvalt: i woudl be too
[11:49] Rose Springvale: so… do we want to amend the motion and put it all up here so we can see?
[11:49] Tor Karlsvalt: and Sudane did always mention that we often let deadbeats off the hook
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[11:49] Rose Springvale: put in only the language we want
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Rose too
[11:49] Tor Karlsvalt: they have time to sell before tier is paid
[11:49] Rose Springvale: exactly
[11:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!
[11:50] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: who’ll do the copying & pasting?
[11:50] Rose Springvale: so, um, tor, you want to scroll back through and put it all together and propose the amendments as friendlys?
[11:50] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:50] Rose Springvale: just paste on a notecard, then paste in the box too
[11:50] Rose Springvale: the text box
[11:51] Rose Springvale: we will just talk about other things in intermission
[11:51] Tor Karlsvalt: hold on
[11:51] Rose Springvale: we do have several 7 day voters out there this week
[11:52] Tor Karlsvalt: looking for those changes
[11:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:52] Rose Springvale: we can help if you want.
[11:52] Rose Springvale: hi Rosie
[11:52] Lilith Ivory: Hi Rosie
[11:52] Pip Torok: hi Rosie!!
[11:52] Rosie Gray smiles: Hi everyone!
[11:52] Arria Perreault: Hi Rosie
[11:53] Keila Forager: Hi Rosie
[11:53] Rose Springvale: we are in intermission while we put pressure on Tor. Key Jeopardy music
[11:53] Rosie Gray: ㋡
[11:53] Pip Torok: lol …
[11:53] Rosie Gray applies some pressure too
[11:53] Lilith Ivory goes for another cup of coffee
[11:53] Rose Springvale: oh, Calli, i should send you the mp3 files of the anthem for Saturday
[11:53] Pip Torok: what a good idea! …
[11:53] Rose Springvale: if its part of the program, out of the loop
[11:54] Callipygian Christensen: oh, yes..please do..I’ll drop you an e-mail address for them
[11:54] Rose Springvale: kk
[11:54] Rose Springvale: Does everyone here have current CDS flag textures?
[11:54] Rose Springvale: seem to still be some old ones flying
[11:54] Pip Torok: not me …
[11:54] Callipygian Christensen: I guess this means I must abandon ‘Send in the Clowns’ as the processional music?
[11:54] Kaseido Quandry cracks up
[11:54] Rosie Gray snickers
[11:54] Rose Springvale: ohhh
[11:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we have the anthem, Calli!!
[11:55] Kaseido Quandry: there’s been a flag patch?
[11:55] Rose Springvale: lets have a clown ball
[11:55] Rose Springvale: not since you’ve been here kas
[11:55] Tor Karlsvalt: can we just look at now no 4
[11:55] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. Fourteen days after the 1st of the month for which tier is due, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be not be returned to the landowner nor will the parcels be set for re-sale the end of the month. Notice of this reclamation and impending loss to regain the reclaimed parcels will be sent to the landowner. At the end of the month, if the landowner has continued to not pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS will return all objects on parcels. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel.
[11:55] Kaseido Quandry: ahh, ok
[11:55] Rose Springvale: i changed that one … hang on
[11:55] Rose Springvale: ADD 5. Fourteen days after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be be returned to the landowner and the parcels be set for re-sale
[11:56] Pip Torok: is that right “resale the end of the month”??
[11:56] Rose Springvale: i guess it is 4 now. i think it needs to be set for resale at the end of the 14 days
[11:56] Tor Karlsvalt: i think we wanted to give a person until he end of he month
[11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I’d like to have the bit that says “the CDS Executive Branch”…. so we know, without a shadow of doubt, who is in charge of returning objects and flagging the parcels for re-sale
[11:56] Lilith Ivory agrees with Tor
[11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not even that, Tor
[11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: we wanted to relaim it and hold it after 14 days
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Notice after 3 days, boom goes your pacel after 14
[11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: resale at the end of the month
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why wait?
[11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[11:57] Rose Springvale: i agree with Gwyn
[11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[11:57] Tor Karlsvalt: not a problem
[11:57] Rose Springvale: its crazy to leave it empty for 14 more days
[11:57] Pip Torok: ok Tor … what I thought it would be …
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, really… why wait? Is there a good reason?
[11:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose… you read my mind lol
[11:58] Rose Springvale: is the moon still full?!
[11:58] Lilith Ivory: Is used to deal with bank or log in issues
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it’s a bit stupid to leave the parcel locked for 2 weeks but not be allowed to do anything…
[11:58] Tor Karlsvalt: just being nice. I am totally ok with tougher
[11:58] Keila Forager: Almost still full l:)
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn *howls*
[11:58] Rose Springvale: Lilith, if one person has those issues
[11:58] Rose Springvale: we all will
[11:58] Rose Springvale: and then there will be an opportunity for the chancellor to react accordingly
[11:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … we can always talk to the Treasurer first
[11:58] Lilith Ivory: yes right
[11:59] Rose Springvale: yes, and if anyone KNOWS of issues, it only takes a message
[11:59] Lilith Ivory is used to that also
[11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly!
[11:59] Rose Springvale: (that’s rl advice too lol)
[11:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if someone doesn’t even care enough to send a simple IM….
[11:59] Lilith Ivory: yes right
[11:59] Pip Torok: quite gwyn
[11:59] Rose Springvale: or even an email
[12:00] Rose Springvale: if you can’t get online
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We still send the automatic notice a few days before the end of the month; one automatic message at the last day I believe; and this law will give a further notice 3 days after the due date, so…
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!
[12:00] Lilith Ivory alsways has Sudanes mail adress handy
[12:00] Lilith Ivory: just in case hehe
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: email, smoke signals…. anything goes
[12:00] Rose Springvale: we are the Tough RA
[12:00] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. Three days after the 1st of the month for which tier is due, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be not be returned to the landowner nor will the parcels be set for re-sale. Notice of this reclamation and impending loss to regain the reclaimed parcels will be sent to the landowner. On the 14th of the month, if the landowner has continued to not pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS will return all objects on parcels. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel.
[12:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes haha
[12:00] Lilith Ivory smiles and agress
[12:00] Rose Springvale: hmm
[12:01] Rose Springvale: that’s much more complicated
[12:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[12:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose’s suggestion was simpler
[12:01] Kaseido Quandry: wait wait wait, object forfeiture?
[12:01] Rose Springvale: this requires specific duties by the chancellor, better to make it self operative
[12:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Notice after 3 days, object deletion and reclaiming the parcel after 14, to be put up for re-sale automatically.
[12:01] Rose Springvale: objects should be returned
[12:01] Kaseido Quandry: YES!
[12:02] Keila Forager: then CDS will return all objects on parcels.
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right.
[12:02] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And that happens on the 14th day
[12:02] Pip Torok agrees
[12:02] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:02] Kaseido Quandry: ok, whew
[12:02] Rose Springvale: with no extra notification
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: exactly!
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no need.
[12:02] Rose Springvale: we need to make this easy on the exec office, not more work
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!!!
[12:03] Rose Springvale: smiles at poor tor who wishes he’d gone to law school now lol
[12:03] Kaseido Quandry wouldn’t wish *that* on anybody
[12:04] Rose Springvale: shhh
[12:04] Rose Springvale: you’ll ruin the mystique!
[12:04] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:04] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
[12:06] Rose Springvale: one question
[12:06] Rosie Gray listens quietly
[12:07] Rose Springvale: boxes open for a week prior to due date and 5 days after? lock always on the 5th?
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: hope this is good.
[12:07] Rose Springvale: which gives 12 days to pay for the succeeding month
[12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. The treasure will notify the a delinquent landowner by the 3rd of the month that tier is overdue and warn that reclamation will occur on the 14th of the month. At the 14th of the month, if tier is still outstanding, then objects will be deleted and and all parcels will be reclaimed and set for re-saile.
[12:07] Kaseido Quandry: Yep, sounds right
[12:07] Kaseido Quandry: no no, not deleted, returned
[12:07] Rose Springvale: Executive officeers
[12:08] Rose Springvale: not treasurer
[12:08] Rose Springvale: and returnd, not deleted, yes
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: ok!
[12:08] Keila Forager: not deleted..returned…
[12:08] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:08] Pip Torok: drafting amend …. “the a” > “the”
[12:08] Rose Springvale: and is it 3 days, or 5?
[12:08] Kaseido Quandry: I thought 5
[12:09] Pip Torok: “objects will be deleted” …??????
[12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, it’s fine by be if it’s 3 or 5 lol
[12:09] Rose Springvale: then this stays, but not the rest… 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full.
[12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: ok we can change taht
[12:09] Rose Springvale: (strike rental though, just leave as tier)
[12:09] Pip Torok: surely we “returned” …
[12:09] Tor Karlsvalt: this term “due date” becomes fuzzy
[12:10] Kaseido Quandry: OK, a question about that –
[12:10] Rose Springvale: remember paragraph one
[12:10] Rose Springvale: 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set (by posting to the CDS Forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter.
[12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:10] Kaseido Quandry: say I don’t pay tier and become a “provisional citizen” – does that trigger a by-election because I no longer meet the qualifications to hold office?
[12:10] Tor Karlsvalt: i think it could Kass,
[12:11] Rose Springvale: lets make it “run for office”
[12:11] Kaseido Quandry: even if I cure within the period? That seems to be vauge in the language
[12:11] Pip Torok: It would do that, Kas
[12:11] Rose Springvale: so we don’t discriminate or bolox up the RA
[12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mh. Good question indeed… I think that at the time this piece of law was written, the worry was more about voting rights
[12:11] Rose Springvale: i can see it now, subversive group stymies the RA by not paying tier til the 14th day!
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh!
[12:12] Kaseido Quandry: lol!
[12:12] Kaseido Quandry: exactly!
[12:12] Rose Springvale: cured if we change to “run for office” or “stand for election”
[12:12] Pip Torok agrees
[12:13] Kaseido Quandry: yep
[12:13] Rose Springvale: Calli, when we finish with this, assuming it passes, please have the SC take a close look to see if we srewed anything up okay?
[12:13] Callipygian Christensen nods
[12:13] Rose Springvale: then we can put the fix in Gwyns laws lol
[12:14] Rose Springvale: Tor, how are you doing> you need help?
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:14] Rose Springvale: ah, good
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
ADD 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to run for office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
[12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: and for four
[12:14] Rose Springvale: no notice by im or notecard
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. The treasure will notify the a delinquent landowner by the 5th of the month that tier is overdue and warn that reclamation will occur on the 14th of the month. At the 14th of the month, if tier is still outstanding, then objects will be returned and and all parcels will be reclaimed and set for re-saile.
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: no notice
[12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: just make it automatic
[12:15] Pip Torok: Tor … “the a” should be “the”
[12:15] Rose Springvale: we send one when they are delinquent, but not again
[12:16] Rose Springvale: and much as i hate to complicate, the language needs to be “5th day after due date” because we don’t know what date the treasurer will set
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok…
[12:17] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
ADD 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to run for office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full.
[12:17] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. The treasure will notify the delinquent landowner by the 5th of the month that tier is overdue and warn that reclamation will occur on the 14th of the month. At the 14th of the month, if tier is still outstanding, then objects will be returned and and all parcels will be reclaimed and set for re-saile.
[12:18] Tor Karlsvalt: i fixed the spelling of sale
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “by the 5th day after due date”
[12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh
[12:20] Rose Springvale: within 5 days of the deliquency?
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and it would be “At the 14th day after due date” too
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That works for me, Ms Lawyer
[12:20] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It sounds more ominous… hehe
[12:21] Rose Springvale: copy and paste isnt’ working for me anymore lol
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 3. By the fifth day after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to run for office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full.
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. The treasure will notify the delinquent landowner by the 5th day after the due date for the month that tier is overdue and warn that reclamation will occur on the 14th day after the due date. At the 14th day after the due date, if tier is still outstanding, then objects will be returned and and all parcels will be reclaimed and set for re-sale.
[12:22] Kaseido Quandry: “vote or run for office” ?
[12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: ohok
[12:22] Arria Perreault: both
[12:23] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:23] Pip Torok: yes, both
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: both indeed.
[12:23] Rose Springvale: does anyone know if the notices are sent by the treasurer or chancellor? I have never had the privilege of being late lol
[12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: but vote where? is that in issue
[12:23] Lilith Ivory: I think it is the treasurer
[12:23] Rose Springvale: in any election Tor
[12:23] Rosie Gray: poor Rose
[12:24] Rose Springvale: cds election
[12:24] Rosie Gray grins
[12:24] Rose Springvale: not the RA
[12:24] Pip Torok: so simply “vote” is sufficient
[12:24] Rose Springvale: smiles at Rosie. I may try just to add to my life experiences!
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: CDS by-election or general election?
[12:24] Rose Springvale: either
[12:24] Rose Springvale: just cds election
[12:24] Pip Torok: yes either
[12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 3. By the fifth day after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote in any CDS election or run for office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full.
[12:25] Callipygian Christensen rasies her hand
[12:25] Rose Springvale: yay!
[12:25] Rose Springvale: yes Calli?
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: whew
[12:25] Callipygian Christensen: if I am undertanding that wording correctly you are giving specila treamtment to RA members
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well… and SC members…. they vote too
[12:26] Rose Springvale: no, we are simply giving them the same treatment, and not paralyzing the RA
[12:26] Callipygian Christensen: as a citizen I lose my right to vote if I am provisional..but a RA member who beocmes provisional can still vote on legislation
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or commissions…. or New Guild
[12:26] Rose Springvale: if they lose their land, they no longer qualify for RA
[12:26] Rose Springvale: but in the meantime, the represent other citizens who have not lost the right to representation
[12:26] Rose Springvale: they*
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True. So… at best they will only vote at the RA once (since the RA usually just meets every other week)
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ooooh
[12:26] Callipygian Christensen: ok, thank you for the clarification
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we could make them wear a title “Delinquent”
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:27] Callipygian Christensen: brand them
[12:27] Rose Springvale points to debtors prison above
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:27] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt: can you script that Gwyn
[12:27] Rose Springvale: The Scarlet D
[12:27] Pip Torok: on their foreheads??
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes I can, Tor
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it requires a ‘bot but is doable hehe
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyway, forget it
[12:27] Arria Perreault: we have a tool for that outside the pratorium
[12:27] Rose Springvale: stocks?
[12:27] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: can I second the motion as amended?
[12:27] Tor Karlsvalt lol
[12:28] Rose Springvale: not quite finished is it?
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh….
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
[12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: want me to repost it?
[12:28] Rose Springvale: just the changed wording for 6
[12:28] Rose Springvale: we need to deal with that mulitple parcel thing
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, true
[12:28] Rose Springvale: unless you have it all together !
[12:28] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: well 6 becomes 5
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: i have it as
[12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 5. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above.
[12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: we can delete it really
[12:30] Rose Springvale: we said we were going to add, “so long as all tier is collected together”
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We can only delete it if we have a system that allows paying for all parcels automatically at the same time.
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right
[12:30] Arria Perreault: it means that someone who doesnt pay can lose all the properties?
[12:30] Rose Springvale: that’s the law now arria
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Arria. In fact, that’s what happens now, you cannot pay for separate parcels in the CDS sims
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: imo we should say he looses only the parcels he can´t pay for
[12:31] Rose Springvale: i think we need to leave it, because i think its been taken advantage of before,and because anyone can abandon parcels any time
[12:31] Lilith Ivory: at the moment he has to pay for all at the same time
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… the point is… if you can’t pay for one parcel any longer, then just sell it…
[12:31] Arria Perreault: it’s technically not possible in fact
[12:31] Tor Karlsvalt: our system doesn not allow for that
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But that might change if we change the system, so I’d leave that point in the law\
[12:31] Arria Perreault: or you need several avatars
[12:32] Arria Perreault:
[12:32] Rose Springvale: or abandon it Gwyn. And if they want to change it, the need but change the system. yes
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… so let’s leave it and amend it as Rose suggested.
[12:32] Arria Perreault: to put away this point?
[12:32] Rose Springvale: So long as a citizens tier is paid collectively to the CDS system,
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… let it stay, and just add: “so long as all tier is collected together”
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[12:33] Rose Springvale: smiels
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ADD 5. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above, so long as all tier is collected together.
[12:33] Arria Perreault: the legislator has to look to the future
[12:33] Rose Springvale: well, so long as tier for all parcels are collected by the CDS system as one payment
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: ok that pharse is at the end of the sentence?
[12:34] Rose Springvale: operationally, no other way but to forfeit all
[12:34] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:34] Rose Springvale: unless we change systems
[12:34] Tor Karlsvalt: DD 5. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above, so long as all tier is collected together.
[12:34] Arria Perreault: we have to think about the principle
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ADD 5. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above, so long as tier for all parcels are collected by the CDS system as one payment.
[12:35] Rose Springvale: thats it gwyn
[12:35] Rose Springvale: collected together just makes it mushy
[12:35] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:35] Arria Perreault: even it’s so technically now, maybe citizen could make a deal with the treasurer and pay her for sell parcels
[12:36] Arria Perreault: less*
[12:36] Tor Karlsvalt: ok got it
[12:36] Rose Springvale: Arria, anyone at any time can abandon any single parcel that they can’t pay for
[12:36] Rose Springvale: and have the balances adjusted at the tier boxes
[12:36] Arria Perreault: I know
[12:37] Rose Springvale: okay, have it all tor?
[12:37] Rose Springvale: are we ready to see it together?
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: hold on
[12:37] Rose Springvale: turns jeopardy music back on…
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: hah
[12:37] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:37] Tor Karlsvalt: A motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
Given the the Chancellor, Treasurer and the people assembled in commission meetings find the current collection rules ineffective, confusing and a hindrance to the effective management of tier collection, the following amendments are proposed to the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer may set (by posting to the CDS Forums) reasonable monthly notification and due date schedules.
ADD: The due date for the future or current month will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Landowoners must contat the treasurer directly to arrange pre-payemnt as necessary.
[12:37] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: 2. The CDS Executive Branch shall provide for notice (which may be by IM or notecard) to each land owner when they have failed to pay tier rental by the established due date.
[12:38] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full. The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
ADD 3. By the fifth day after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote in any CDS election or run for office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full.
[12:38] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 4. CDS has the right to make public the lists of provisional citizens from time to time, as reasonably needed for its administration of government.
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 5. One calendar month after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall send another notice to the landowner warning of imminent reclamation (loss of the land). Fourteen days after that 1-month notice is sent, the CDS Executive Branch shall re-take ownership of the land, and the owner shall be removed from ‘provisional citizen’ status. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel. All objects on the parcel at the time of reclamation shall be returned, and a notice of the reclamation sent to the landowner.
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 4. The treasure will notify the delinquent landowner by the 5th day after the due date for the month that tier is overdue and warn that reclamation will occur on the 14th day after the due date. At the 14th day after the due date, if tier is still outstanding, then objects will be returned and and all parcels will be reclaimed and set for re-sale.
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, and reaches the one-month notice above, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above. However, this paragraph 6 shall only be in force on and after the date on which CDS government has posted a method by which absent landowners can effectively prepay rent, in amounts at least up to 3 months’ in advance.
[12:38] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD 5. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above, so long as tier for all parcels are collected by the CDS system as one payment.
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: CHANGE 7 to 6: 6. The CDS Executive Branch is encouraged to take reasonable additional steps to notify citizens of past due amounts and all other matters described in this Act, but timely rent payment primarily is the citizen’s responsibility to monitor.
Change 8 to 7. This law repeals any provisions of prior CDS laws (including NL 7-6 [http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=208]) that specify land reclamation or rent payment methods, to the extent that they contradict the explicit terms of this law.
Adopted by the RA 4 January 2009
[12:39] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: i wll make a nc
[12:39] Kaseido Quandry: In new 4, first line, “treasurer,” not “treasure”
[12:39] Tor Karlsvalt: got it
[12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In 2, “land owner” should be “landowner” (for consistency)
[12:40] Arria Perreault: where is point 3?
[12:40] Rose Springvale: the addition to 1 is not quite clear
[12:40] Tor Karlsvalt: got qwyns change
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Rose is right. There are also a few spellling mistakes at the end hehe
[12:41] Rose Springvale: The Treasurer shall set, (by posting to the CDS forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter.
[12:41] Tor Karlsvalt: got contact and payment
[12:41] Arria Perreault: when this law will come in force, if we vote it today?
[12:42] Rose Springvale: probably need two months for the adjustments
[12:42] Rose Springvale: but in force immediately i’d say. after 7 day votes
[12:42] Arria Perreault: does have the SC a delay to veto it?
[12:42] Rose Springvale: what do the rest of you say?
[12:42] Rose Springvale: SC has 7 days after passed into law
[12:42] Rose Springvale: and publication by the RA
[12:42] Arria Perreault: so 14 days
[12:43] Rose Springvale: transcript will go up today
[12:43] Rose Springvale: not necessaerly
[12:43] Rose Springvale: 7 votes passes it into law
[12:43] Rose Springvale: could be final in 7 days
[12:43] Arria Perreault: is the transcript the publication?
[12:43] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:44] Rose Springvale: always has been
[12:44] Tor Karlsvalt: DELETE 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer may set (by posting to the CDS Forums) reasonable monthly notification and due date schedules.
ADD: 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set, (by posting to the CDS forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter. The due date for the future or current month will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Landowoners must contact the treasurer directly to arrange pre-payment as necessary.
[12:44] Arria Perreault: well .. technically of course. but I am sure you would agree with me that it is not a efficient communication ….
[12:44] Rose Springvale: i would delete “for the future or current month”
[12:44] Arria Perreault: it concern every citizen
[12:44] Kaseido Quandry: yep, it’s just confusing and out of context
[12:45] Rose Springvale: we’ll do group notices too.
[12:45] Lilith Ivory: good idea
[12:45] Arria Perreault: I would suggest we do some communication
[12:45] Rose Springvale: as i’m sure the chancellor will do
[12:45] Arria Perreault: and also paste the new in the portal (I will do)
[12:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes please!)
[12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD: 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set, (by posting to the CDS forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter. The due date will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Landowoners must contact the treasurer directly to arrange pre-payment as necessary.
[12:45] Arria Perreault: new law
[12:45] Rose Springvale: this won’t be a surprise … finance commission has met three times, and we have met twice
[12:46] Arria Perreault: there are many peole who were not at these meeting
[12:46] Rose Springvale: for the archivist,which we will elect next week. but thanks for offering
[12:46] Lilith Ivory: and never read the forum
[12:46] Arria Perreault: the one who come once a month to pay
[12:46] Rose Springvale: it is all on the forum
[12:46] Rose Springvale: okay, are we ready to vote?
[12:46] Pip Torok: yes
[12:46] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[12:47] Rose Springvale: or actually, need a second if the motion is ready
[12:47] Lilith Ivory nods
[12:47] Pip Torok: seconded
[12:47] Tor Karlsvalt: tying to find my new note card
[12:47] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:47] Arria Perreault: do you give us the final version, Tor?
[12:47] Rose Springvale: if you find, paste one more time please
[12:48] Rose Springvale: if paste still works for you
[12:48] Tor Karlsvalt gave you Motion to amend NL 9-2 final.
[12:49] Tor Karlsvalt: been ising a text editor
[12:49] Rose Springvale: this looks right, want me to paste it?
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: sure
[12:50] Pip Torok wonders if there’s a “Royal Society for the prevention of cruelty to Text Editors” ……
[12:50] Rose Springvale: motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
Given the the Chancellor, Treasurer and the people assembled in commission meetings find the current collection rules ineffective, confusing and a hindrance to the effective management of tier collection, the following amendments are proposed to the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set (by posting to the CDS Forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter. The due date will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Landowoners must contact the treasurer directly to arrange pre-payment as necessary.
2. The CDS Executive Branch shall provide for notice (which may be by IM or notecard) to each land owner when they have failed to pay tier rental by the established due date within 5 days of the delinquency.
3. Five calendar days after the due date, a landowner who has failed timely to pay rental tier becomes a ‘provisional citizen’, and shall not have the right to vote or hold office in the CDS until and unless all amounts overdue to CDS are paid in full.
[12:50] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[12:51] Rose Springvale: The citizen shall receive a notice (by IM or notecard) advising her or him of this risk and imminent change is status, and noting the deadline for final payment pursuant to this Act.
4. CDS has the right to make public the lists of provisional citizens from time to time, as reasonably needed for its administration of government.
DELETE 5. One calendar month after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall send another notice to the landowner warning of imminent reclamation (loss of the land). Fourteen days after that 1-month notice is sent, the CDS Executive Branch shall re-take ownership of the land, and the owner shall be removed from ‘provisional citizen’ status. The CDS Executive Branch may then dispose of the land by re-sale or otherwise in such manner as is consistent with our laws, and the landowner will lose any further interest in the parcel. All objects on the parcel at the time of reclamation shall be returned, and a notic
[12:51] Rose Springvale: a notice of the reclamation sent to the landowner.
ADD 5. Fourteen days after the due date, if the landowner has continued to fail to pay the full amount then overdue to CDS, then CDS shall reclaim all parcels owned by the landowner and hold all parcels in reserve. Objects on the parcels will be be returned to the landowner and the parcels be set for re-sale
DELETE 6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, and reaches the one-month notice above, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above. However, this paragraph 6 shall only be in force on and after the date on which CDS government has posted a method by which absent landowners can effectively prepay rent, in amounts at least up to 3 months’ in advance.
ADD 6. If a landowner who has failed to pay rental tier owns more than one CDS property, all of that owner’s properties are subject to the reclamation rules specified above.
7. The CDS Executive Branch is encouraged
[12:52] Rose Springvale: to take reasonable additional steps to notify citizens of past due amounts and all other matters described in this Act, but timely rent payment primarily is the citizen’s responsibility to monitor.
8. This law repeals any provisions of prior CDS laws (including NL 7-6 [http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=208]) that specify land reclamation or rent payment methods, to the extent that they contradict the explicit terms of this law.
Adopted by the RA 4 January 2009
[12:52] Rose Springvale: now we have a motion and a second. Ready to vote?
[12:52] [color=Sienna]Tor Karlsvalt: second
[12:52] Tor Karlsvalt: oh no i cant
[12:52] Rose Springvale: its been seconded
[12:53] Rose Springvale: i’ll call the vote then. All in favor of the motion as amended
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt is hoping this ends soon
[12:53] Rose Springvale: please say aye
[12:53] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[12:53] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:53] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:53] Pip Torok: aye
[12:53] Callipygian Christensen /mefrowns
[12:53] Rose Springvale: gwyn, arria?
[12:54] Rose Springvale: smiles…
[12:54] Rose Springvale: hmm
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye aye
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry!
[12:55] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:55] Rose Springvale: chair also vote aye, and motion carries!
[12:55] Rose Springvale: congratulations
[12:55] Arria Perreault: and Pip?
[12:55] Rose Springvale: Thank you for your diligence .. he voted aye
[12:55] Pip Torok: have voted
[12:55] Arria Perreault: he did vote, sorry
[12:56] Tor Karlsvalt: hooray
[12:56] Rose Springvale: That concludes todays business
[12:56] Callipygian Christensen raises her hand
[12:56] Pip Torok:
[12:56] Rose Springvale: so yes Calli?
[12:56] Rose Springvale: we will give you a notecard, don’t worry
[12:56] Callipygian Christensen: I am sorry if I missed some section of text in lag, but hwat happened to that whole paragraph about boxes being opn no later than 5 days before due date, the addition to 1?
[12:57] Rose Springvale: hmm, i think that’s going to have to be administrative implementation…
[12:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: …. aye and crash…. hehe
[12:57] Rose Springvale: do we have language on when boxes are open?
[12:57] Rose Springvale: or shall we leave to the discretion of the Exec office
[12:58] Rose Springvale: actually
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: it is left to the treasure
[12:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn lost the past few minutes of discussion, sorry
[12:58] Tor Karlsvalt: in large part
[12:59] Rose Springvale: sent gwyn
[12:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[12:59] Callipygian Christensen: so this was dropped: [12:45] Tor Karlsvalt: ADD: 1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set, (by posting to the CDS forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter. The due date will be no earlier than five days after payment boxes are open to accept tier payments. Landowoners must contact the treasurer directly to arrange pre-payment as necessary.
[12:59] Callipygian Christensen: that last sentence
[12:59] Rose Springvale: no, that is in, isn’t it?
[12:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s supposed to be in!
[12:59] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: some of it might have gotten truncated
[13:00] Tor Karlsvalt: when you posted rose.
[13:00] Callipygian Christensen: this is what you voted on:
[13:00] Rose Springvale: yes, its in, at 12:45 on my screen
[13:00] Callipygian Christensen: Rose Springvale: motion to amend NL 9-2 the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
Given the the Chancellor, Treasurer and the people assembled in commission meetings find the current collection rules ineffective, confusing and a hindrance to the effective management of tier collection, the following amendments are proposed to the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
1. Citizens of CDS are expected to pay tier rentals to the CDS Treasurer in a timely fashion. The Treasurer shall set (by posting to the CDS Forums) due dates for tier, which shall be the due date thereafter.
[13:01] Rose Springvale: hmm
[13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oopsie
[13:01] Rose Springvale: the notecard is right lol
[13:01] Rose Springvale: maybe my paste got messed up again.
[13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can definitely re-post what is RIGHT and just ask a vote again to make sure
[13:01] Tor Karlsvalt: i think there is a character limit in local chat
[13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Tor, there is)
[13:02] Callipygian Christensen: well I am just concerned that the transcript hold the full law
[13:02] Rose Springvale: did everyone get the notecard?
[13:02] Lilith Ivory: nope
[13:02] Pip Torok: I did
[13:02] Rose Springvale: yes, we’ll add it to the transcript.
[13:02] Keila Forager: There isn’t an all clear on the grid yet, so that may be the problem
[13:02] Rosie Gray: was there a warning earlier?
[13:03] Keila Forager: Yes..
[13:03] Lilith Ivory: is the notecard in the box?
[13:03] Pip Torok: yes Lilith
[13:03] Rose Springvale: not yet, tor was handing out the new one
[13:03] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:03] Tor Karlsvalt: oh ool
[13:03] Pip Torok: oh sorry .. I misled you
[13:03] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:03] Rose Springvale: okay, lets just confirm that we were voting on the language calli cited
[13:03] Rose Springvale: because i can’t paste again lol
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, please
[13:04] Lilith Ivory: yes
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn confirms she was voting on the language Calli cited.
[13:04] Rose Springvale: i’ll put it in the transcript thread, if that’s NOT what you voted on, make sure to note it in 7 day vote
[13:04] Tor Karlsvalt: we lost kas
[13:04] Rose Springvale: we’ve lost kas, yes
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: Ra fighting it´s way through hip deep lag
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: lol
[13:05] Rose Springvale: if you all confirm now, then we can just clear with kas
[13:05] Rose Springvale: and we can ajourn
[13:05] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:05] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:05] Pip Torok: aye
[13:06] Arria Perreault: and the RA members concerns?
[13:06] Callipygian Christensen: thank you
[13:06] Rose Springvale: yes, we can do that next arria
[13:06] Arria Perreault: we did not had a published agenda for today
[13:06] Rose Springvale: yes, it was the continuation from last week. and here is kas, so we can revote
[13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: yay
[13:07] Kaseido Quandry: ok, what’d I miss?
[13:07] Rose Springvale: all in favor of the motion as amended with the language calli pasted, say aye please
[13:07] Kaseido Quandry: aye please
[13:07] Arria Perreault: abstains
[13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[13:07] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:07] Rose Springvale: just confirming the vote
[13:07] Pip Torok: aye
[13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (lol Kas)
[13:07] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:07] Rose Springvale: arria, you voted in favor before, not confirming the language?
[13:07] Arria Perreault: sorry
[13:07] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:07] Rose Springvale: thanks
[13:08] Rose Springvale: i think that is everyone… i also am aye
[13:08] Rose Springvale: okay
[13:08] Rose Springvale: other concerns of RA?
[13:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes — viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3016
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: woot
[13:08] Pip Torok: < relief > …..
[13:08] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[13:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Delia asks us the following:
[13:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This discussion is a continuation of item 1. of the 26 July 2010 SC meeting. The SC has been asked by the LRA to set dates for the bi-election on account of the resignations of StuiChicanne Darkstone and Patroklus Murakami. Please 1. approve dates for the 13th RA bi-election proposed by Claude Desmoulis: Candidate declaration on August 1st, polls open on August 8th, polls close on August 15th (schedule for the by-election); or 2. Propose a different set of dates for approval.
Please weigh in ASAP, and not later than Thursday 29 July.
[13:09] Rose Springvale: Motion to accept the dates?
[13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Second!
[13:09] Arria Perreault: it’s very short
[13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (very)
[13:09] Kaseido Quandry: Move to accept
[13:09] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[13:09] Arria Perreault: no
[13:09] Arria Perreault: you are oo quick
[13:09] Arria Perreault: too
[13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe — do you have any problem with the dates, Arria?
[13:09] Rose Springvale: discussion?
[13:09] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:09] Arria Perreault: the delay is very short
[13:09] Kaseido Quandry: Apoligies, but I’m going to have to leave in 5 minutes – I’m late for an RL appointment
[13:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we shouldn’t have a crippled RA for long.
[13:10] Arria Perreault: yes, but it’s summertime
[13:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are 2 weeks for campaigning
[13:10] Rose Springvale: thanks kas
[13:10] Arria Perreault: yes, but for announcing …
[13:10] Arria Perreault: i’s very short
[13:10] Tor Karlsvalt: well all the better
[13:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, what other dates would you suggest then?
[13:10] Rose Springvale: i think a short time period is okay… there are only two positions open
[13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: get it done
[13:11] Arria Perreault: one more week
[13:11] Kaseido Quandry agrees with Tor
[13:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I really wouldn’t like to leave the RA with open seats
[13:11] Rose Springvale: we will be in summer for a while yet. in texas, a long while
[13:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh right
[13:11] Keila Forager: Till December, rose..LOL
[13:11] Arria Perreault: Pat said he stay until we elect someone
[13:11] Pip Torok: agrees with Tor considering its soon to the end of term
[13:11] Rose Springvale: he’s officially resigned
[13:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria, I disagree that a week makes a difference.
[13:12] Arria Perreault: My resignation will be effective from the day the polls open for the by-election (which can now be for two seats instead of one).
[13:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who is taing vacations in August will either not be here… or be here
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: can we elect someone while he is still on office?
[13:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, he officially resigned, Tor
[13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: thought so
[13:13] Kaseido Quandry: .
[13:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So either we push the elections to September (using the argument that August is a bad month), or it’s pointless to postpone really
[13:13] Rose Springvale: i think the SC considered the issues and sent us dates that work for them
[13:13] Rose Springvale: so would support the dates they’ve given us
[13:13] Arria Perreault: did Delia sent a notice to appeal candidacies?
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: we had a second.
[13:14] Arria Perreault: an in-word notice?
[13:14] Rose Springvale: no idea what that means
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: lets vote
[13:14] Rose Springvale: we are in discussion unless someone calls the question Tor
[13:14] Kaseido Quandry: call the question
[13:14] Arria Perreault: many of you think forums are not a good commun ication
[13:14] Rose Springvale: okay
[13:14] Arria Perreault: I want to add a week
[13:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the SC can’t set the dates without us agreeing
[13:14] Rose Springvale: we now have a motion called. All in favor of accepting the SC dates for the by election, say aye
[13:14] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[13:14] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:14] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[13:15] Arria Perreault: nay
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[13:15] Rose Springvale: pip?
[13:15] Pip Torok: aye
[13:15] Rose Springvale: chair votes aye and it goes to 7 day.
[13:15] Rose Springvale: any other business?
[13:15] Kaseido Quandry: must go – sorry, all!
[13:15] Rose Springvale: thanks kas!
[13:15] Lilith Ivory: cu Kas
[13:15] Pip Torok: bye kas
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope not I need to go too
[13:15] Rosie Gray: bye Kaseido
[13:15] Kaseido Quandry: bye!
[13:15] Callipygian Christensen returns and eeks
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see you, Kas!
[13:15] Tor Karlsvalt: bye kas
[13:15] Pip Torok: yes Arrias concern …
[13:16] Rose Springvale: we are inquorate now, so unless we want to chat, we are adjourned
[13:16] Rose Springvale: Next meeting will Feature the Election commission
[13:16] Pip Torok: at least we can hear Arrias concern …
[13:16] Callipygian Christensen: In that case, I don’t think Delia was posting that as something to be voted on, although I may be msitaken
[13:16] Rose Springvale: i think she stated it didn’t she?
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: She asked us to approve the dates or suggest different ones.
[13:16] Rose Springvale: smiles. was moved into the meeting though Calli
[13:17] Pip Torok: well imo the timing constrained us to vote
[13:17] Rose Springvale: the question was called. no options
[13:17] Callipygian Christensen: a 7 day vote can now mullipfy a campaign already in progress
[13:17] Callipygian Christensen: nullify
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[13:17] Arria Perreault: I want to say 2 things
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true.
[13:18] Rose Springvale: then we will need to have someone vote in favor fast
[13:18] Pip Torok: dont forget … the current term has not long to run …
[13:18] Callipygian Christensen: I beleive Delia was posting it for input – but that the SC has the responsibility of the scheduling
[13:18] Rose Springvale: i think the RA has ultimate responsibility … gwyn do you know?
[13:19] Rose Springvale: certainly up to the SC to review, if the motion passes
[13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: well we only voted than to agree iwth the SC.
[13:19] Rose Springvale: we are officially off the record now, btw
[13:19] Tor Karlsvalt: that is even better if they have final say
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… on by.-elections, SC sets the dates (I, 2 – Vacancies in RA positions will be filled by by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law.
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We just voted to agree, yes

Permalink.

RA Meeting 5 August 2010

Transcript, RA meeting August 5, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:42 pm
[2010/08/05 13:09] Rose Springvale: i’ll get the agenda in the box. Hi .. WE are in the citizens concerns time, if anyone would like to speak
[2010/08/05 13:10] Patroklus Murakami: i have a question. do we get an invite to the Al Andalus Independence Day celebrations?
[2010/08/05 13:10] Rose Springvale: Anyone is welcome at al Al Andalus events Pat
[2010/08/05 13:10] Patroklus Murakami: ty rose
[2010/08/05 13:11] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Cindy Ecksol (17m)
[2010/08/05 13:11] Rose Springvale: Any other questions?
[2010/08/05 13:11] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Cindy
[2010/08/05 13:11] Cindy Ecksol: hi all. waiting out lag….
[2010/08/05 13:12] Tor Karlsvalt: yes lag is heavy
[2010/08/05 13:12] Rose Springvale: agenda in the box and here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3027
[2010/08/05 13:13] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Kaseido Quandry (18m)
[2010/08/05 13:13] Rose Springvale: If we don’t have other citizens concerns, lets try to muddle through… and forgive me for the pauses, nothing i seem to be able to do about them
[2010/08/05 13:13] Kaseido Quandry: ok, looks like I was the only one to have *no clue* about this meeting!
[2010/08/05 13:13] Rose Springvale: Any additions or corrections to the agenda?
[2010/08/05 13:14] Rose Springvale: sorry Kas… notice has been up all week
[2010/08/05 13:14] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Guillaume Mistwalker (19m)
[2010/08/05 13:14] Kaseido Quandry: ah well!
[2010/08/05 13:15] Rose Springvale: I think there was only one person who exercised 7 day votes, and not changes in the outcome of the legislation passed last meeting.
[2010/08/05 13:15] Rose Springvale: plese jump in if you have comments, i’m going to have trouble recognizing people in 30 sec intervals i’m afraid
[2010/08/05 13:16] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: CLEOPATRA Xigalia (19m)
[2010/08/05 13:16] Timo Gufler: have you tried relogin, Rose?
[2010/08/05 13:17] Rose Springvale: Let me remind everyone that all our meetings are transcripted, and if you speak you are consenting to that Next is the RA archivist position (yes Timo, has been going on all week)
[2010/08/05 13:17] Rose Springvale: In the past this has been a volunteer/appointed position
[2010/08/05 13:18] Patroklus Murakami: and often unfilled
[2010/08/05 13:18] Rose Springvale: there have been suggestions that it is an elected one lately , though i’ve found no law supporting that. it is a civiel service position that pays 1000 L per month
[2010/08/05 13:18] Patroklus Murakami: it’s an RA appointment
[2010/08/05 13:18] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Gwyneth Llewelyn (10m)
[2010/08/05 13:19] Pip Torok: hi gwyn
[2010/08/05 13:19] Timo Gufler: hi Gwyn
[2010/08/05 13:19] Lilith Ivory: Hi Gwyn
[2010/08/05 13:19] Rose Springvale: We are fortunate to have two qualified indivuals who wish to serve. Cindy Ecksol, who volunteered at the beginning of the term, and Arria Perreault
[2010/08/05 13:20] Patroklus Murakami: an embarrassment of riches
[2010/08/05 13:20] Cindy Ecksol: why thank you Pat!
[2010/08/05 13:20] Patroklus Murakami: yw
[2010/08/05 13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops sorry
[2010/08/05 13:21] Rose Springvale: As an RA appointment, I am concerned about spreading responsibilities. Arria currently chairs the citizenship commission, the roman sim cultural commission along with her personal ventures. Cindy has no other CDS jobs this term, correct?
[2010/08/05 13:21] Timo Gufler: np
[2010/08/05 13:21] Cindy Ecksol: correct
[2010/08/05 13:21] Rose Springvale: does the RA wish to vote on this? or have discussions?
[2010/08/05 13:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and best to keep things in peoples hands you can control rose
[2010/08/05 13:22] Patroklus Murakami: why don’t we accept them both as a jobshare?
[2010/08/05 13:22] Patroklus Murakami: they can divide the work between themselves as appropriate
[2010/08/05 13:22] Rose Springvale: not sure that is acceptable to them Pat, and wouldn’t want to assume
[2010/08/05 13:22] Pip Torok: if both are willing!
[2010/08/05 13:22] Patroklus Murakami: “many hands make light work” and all that
[2010/08/05 13:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: arria knows what she can do
[2010/08/05 13:22] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: shes not here either so ..
[2010/08/05 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: no thank you, pat. maintenance of a particular page is a one-person job. otherwise you end up with one writing over what the other has done.
[2010/08/05 13:23] Pip Torok: by all means ask, pat
[2010/08/05 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: I’m not interested in that kind of thing…
[2010/08/05 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: either I’m going to do it….or not.
[2010/08/05 13:23] Tor Karlsvalt: right cindy
[2010/08/05 13:23] Patroklus Murakami: well, it’s maintenance of more than just one page!
[2010/08/05 13:23] Rose Springvale: i actually think that is the point of spreading out the jobs
[2010/08/05 13:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I wonder if we couldn’t get someone to act as SC Archivist too hehe
[2010/08/05 13:23] Patroklus Murakami: the job could be divided up
[2010/08/05 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: my point is that when more than one person is maintaing the same thing, it’s not a good thing
[2010/08/05 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: not interested.
[2010/08/05 13:23] Cindy Ecksol: time to fish or cut bait.
[2010/08/05 13:23] Rose Springvale: i don’t think we should ask that of them.
[2010/08/05 13:23] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: perhas it would have been more informative to metanomics that they watch you in action rose, rather than hear your spin
[2010/08/05 13:23] Pip Torok /me is inclined to agree
[2010/08/05 13:24] Cindy Ecksol: I don’t have time to negotiate.
[2010/08/05 13:24] Patroklus Murakami: but, if you guys don’t want arria to be RA archivist. okay
[2010/08/05 13:24] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Fern Leissa (19m)
[2010/08/05 13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In spite of everything, having been often in a similar situation, I would also not be very comfortable with that idea.
[2010/08/05 13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, either we have ONE persons responsible for the archives, or zero. Two, three, more … well, it’s a mess
[2010/08/05 13:24] Pip Torok /me would like to ask each one question
[2010/08/05 13:24] Rose Springvale: i think so too Gwyn
[2010/08/05 13:24] Patroklus Murakami: seems odd to *turn away* volunteers is all
[2010/08/05 13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know, pat!
[2010/08/05 13:25] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: and when shes not here!!
[2010/08/05 13:25] Cindy Ecksol /me me knows from experiencve that this is the case
[2010/08/05 13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s incredible, so many years without a single volunteer… and now we have two
[2010/08/05 13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seems to be a waste lol
[2010/08/05 13:25] Cindy Ecksol: not a waste.
[2010/08/05 13:25] Cindy Ecksol: Arria has plenty to do.
[2010/08/05 13:25] Lilith Ivory: Arria volunteers a lot already
[2010/08/05 13:25] Cindy Ecksol: because of the controversy on the Chancellorship I ddn’t volunteer for a comission
[2010/08/05 13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True.
[2010/08/05 13:26] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: but its very unfair to discuss this without her here..
[2010/08/05 13:26] Cindy Ecksol: so I’ve got lots of free capacity.
[2010/08/05 13:26] Pip Torok /me requests that the RA asks questions of each candidate
[2010/08/05 13:26] Cindy Ecksol /me is happy to answer any question from Pip
[2010/08/05 13:26] Rose Springvale: sigh. this isn’t a policy positon, its administrative.
[2010/08/05 13:26] Pip Torok: right (for you and Arria) what would be your priorioty in carrying out your task?
[2010/08/05 13:27] Cindy Ecksol: Timliness.
[2010/08/05 13:27] Cindy Ecksol: and completeness would be second
[2010/08/05 13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (note: a job description of the RA Archivist is here: http://forums-archive.secondlife.com/10 … 519/1.html )
[2010/08/05 13:27] Pip Torok: (I was thinking of content … ie which portion …
[2010/08/05 13:28] Cindy Ecksol: yes, what Gwyn said
[2010/08/05 13:28] Pip Torok: thank you, Cindy
[2010/08/05 13:28] Cindy Ecksol: that’s the “portion”
[2010/08/05 13:28] Rose Springvale: smiles
[2010/08/05 13:28] Cindy Ecksol: I’m not volunteering to maintain the entire portal, Pip
[2010/08/05 13:28] Rose Springvale: other questions, discussion?
[2010/08/05 13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless the RA wants to change teh job description, that’s what the RA Archivist is *expected* to do.
[2010/08/05 13:28] Pip Torok: I understand
[2010/08/05 13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We might vote to change the numbering of the laws
[2010/08/05 13:29] Rose Springvale: smiles
[2010/08/05 13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suppose few know why they’re called “NL”
[2010/08/05 13:29] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[2010/08/05 13:29] Rose Springvale: why are they?
[2010/08/05 13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Neufreistadt Law.
[2010/08/05 13:29] Cindy Ecksol: so actually we should say “CDSL” or somesuch.
[2010/08/05 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: I never did figure out why my township here in RL uses “B”
[2010/08/05 13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I submit a motion to to adopt CDSL
[2010/08/05 13:30] Tor Karlsvalt /me relieved I had that figured out
[2010/08/05 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: second
[2010/08/05 13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn /me smiles @ Tor
[2010/08/05 13:30] Rose Springvale: smiles. moved and seconded to change the numbering to CDSL… discussion?
[2010/08/05 13:30] Patroklus Murakami: aww, let’s keep ‘NL’ for history’s sake
[2010/08/05 13:30] Pip Torok: imho it wd be cumbersome
[2010/08/05 13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Pat
[2010/08/05 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
[2010/08/05 13:30] Rose Springvale: but its not accurate!
[2010/08/05 13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL !
[2010/08/05 13:30] Kaseido Quandry: lol, the mark of a true conservative!
[2010/08/05 13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, it’s not!
[2010/08/05 13:30] Cindy Ecksol: no more cumbersome than NL Pip
[2010/08/05 13:30] Patroklus Murakami: Neualtenburg Law
[2010/08/05 13:31] Patroklus Murakami: nothing wrong with that kas
[2010/08/05 13:31] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2010/08/05 13:31] Kaseido Quandry /me laughs
[2010/08/05 13:31] Pip Torok: 4-letters instead of 2?? !! QED!
[2010/08/05 13:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we could rename the “N” to something different… “Needless Law”
[2010/08/05 13:31] Rose Springvale: can we vote on this? i’m missing a great day outside lol
[2010/08/05 13:31] Cindy Ecksol: oh, Pip, I think we can afford the bits…..
[2010/08/05 13:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aw
[2010/08/05 13:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It could also be CL…
[2010/08/05 13:31] Rose Springvale: C would work
[2010/08/05 13:31] Pip Torok: true
[2010/08/05 13:32] Rose Springvale: confederation law
[2010/08/05 13:32] Cindy Ecksol: how about XL?
[2010/08/05 13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: friendly amendment?
[2010/08/05 13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Cindy
[2010/08/05 13:32] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2010/08/05 13:32] Rose Springvale: your motion
[2010/08/05 13:32] Cindy Ecksol: c’mon guys, this is silly….
[2010/08/05 13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Cindy
[2010/08/05 13:32] Cindy Ecksol: let’s vote on CDSL
[2010/08/05 13:32] Pip Torok: agrees
[2010/08/05 13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No amendment, vote against it if you don’t like CDSL
[2010/08/05 13:32] Cindy Ecksol: move to close discussion
[2010/08/05 13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconds
[2010/08/05 13:32] Rose Springvale: all in favor of CSDL, say aye
[2010/08/05 13:32] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2010/08/05 13:32] Rose Springvale: CDSL lol
[2010/08/05 13:33] Pip Torok: nay
[2010/08/05 13:33] Patroklus Murakami: nay
[2010/08/05 13:33] Kaseido Quandry: is there a “whatever” voting option?
[2010/08/05 13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn /me *slaps her forehead* sorry
[2010/08/05 13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “abstain”, Kas!
[2010/08/05 13:33] muhammedyussif Wikinger: nay
[2010/08/05 13:33] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2010/08/05 13:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye for consistency
[2010/08/05 13:33] Lilith Ivory: aye
[2010/08/05 13:33] Kaseido Quandry: oh, aye
[2010/08/05 13:34] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Timo Gufler (10m)
[2010/08/05 13:34] Tor Karlsvalt /me relieved that crisis is over
[2010/08/05 13:34] Pip Torok: wb Timo
[2010/08/05 13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now we should vote on the candidates…
[2010/08/05 13:34] Timo Gufler: thanks, sorry for the crash…
[2010/08/05 13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Timo
[2010/08/05 13:35] Timo Gufler:
[2010/08/05 13:35] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Timo
[2010/08/05 13:35] Pip Torok: did Timo vote?
[2010/08/05 13:35] Timo Gufler: sorry, I missed discussion for some minutes…
[2010/08/05 13:35] Timo Gufler: because the crash was “slow”…
[2010/08/05 13:36] Cindy Ecksol: asking for a vote to approve changing of NL to CDSL for the “prefix” to RA legislation
[13:36] Cindy Ecksol: whoops…lost rose
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: oh boy, this is not going to be pretty today
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: quick, let’s vote on a replacement LRA!
[13:36] Tor Karlsvalt: haaha
[13:36] Timo Gufler: lol
[13:36] Pip Torok:
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ㋡
[13:37] Cindy Ecksol: Timo, I don’t know where you cut out, but the upshot is that “NL” stands for Neualtenburg Law and Gwyn proposed to change it to CDSL
[13:37] Tor Karlsvalt: Gwyn I think you are crashing too
[13:37] Cindy Ecksol: vote “aye” if you’re in favor.
[13:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn crosses herfingers
[13:37] Timo Gufler: ok, I will vote when the LRA is back
[13:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Okay.
[13:37] Tor Karlsvalt: tick tock
[13:37] Patroklus Murakami: vote ‘nay’. this is one of gwyn’s terrible ideas
[13:38] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: lol pat
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[13:38] Timo Gufler: sigh, I missed the discussion…
[13:38] Tor Karlsvalt: anyone know some jokes
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it was fun
[13:38] Cindy Ecksol: let’s see…..
[13:38] Guillaume Mistwalker: WB Rose
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo!
[13:38] Lilith Ivory: wb Rose
[13:39] Pip Torok: wb rose
[13:39] Rose Springvale: sorry all
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: woot
[13:39] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Rose
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, Rose, in your absence, we have voted on a replacement LRA
[13:39] Cindy Ecksol: a couple of notes walked into a bar…..
[13:39] Pip Torok: timo needs to add his vote, Rose
[13:39] Rose Springvale: ah, good, i’ll go to the beach
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[13:39] Rose Springvale: someone want to copy for me?
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn thought there were only deserts in Texas!
[13:39] Timo Gufler: I abstain from the voting about the law
[13:39] Guillaume Mistwalker wonders who will be next in the game of SL Crash-duck-duck-goose!
[13:39] Rose Springvale: okay, then we were at 5-2- 1 i think
[13:39] Cindy Ecksol: nothing new rose, we waitd for you.
[13:40] Rose Springvale: thanks
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: didn’t do anyting Rose
[13:40] Rose Springvale: so are we ready to vote on archivist?
[13:40] Cindy Ecksol: ah….thought you saw that.
[13:40] Tor Karlsvalt: just needed Timo’s vote
[13:40] Rose Springvale: the legal designations pass, subject to 7 day vote
[13:40] Cindy Ecksol: five aye, three nay, one abstain
[13:40] Rose Springvale: kk
[13:40] Pip Torok: Timo, its about the _numbering_ of the laws, not the laws themselves
[13:41] Rose Springvale: yes, simply designation.
[13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s vote on the archivist quickly before I get more ideas…
[13:41] Timo Gufler: aye then
[13:41] Rose Springvale: thanks timo
[13:41] Rose Springvale: okay, lets just vote by name, Cindy or Arria
[13:41] Tor Karlsvalt: Cindy
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: Cindy
[13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: abstain (or Arria will kick me)
[13:42] Pip Torok: Arria
[13:42] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Aria
[13:42] Patroklus Murakami: arria. (though I’m sure both would do an excellent job)
[13:42] Timo Gufler: Arria
[13:42] Kaseido Quandry: Cindy
[13:42] Cindy Ecksol: Cindy
[13:43] Rose Springvale: is that everyone?
[13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts
[13:43] Rose Springvale: in the spirit of accepting volunteers, i vote Cindy
[13:44] Rose Springvale: So i think we are 5-4-1 and need one 7 day vote?
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
[13:44] Rose Springvale: 2 7 day votes
[13:44] Rose Springvale: solomon and arria
[13:44] Patroklus Murakami: all 7 day votes surely?
[13:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, I think that what Rose means is that we don’t get a *decision*
[13:45] Rose Springvale: okay. lets move on. thank you Cindy for your patience, and to both of you for volunteering
[13:45] Rose Springvale: Commisions, (i think this will go faster than listed)
[13:45] Rose Springvale: Commerce, Lilith?
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: we are finished collecting ideas
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: and I will schedule another meeting to firgure out how we can get things get done in late august
[13:46] Lilith Ivory: after traveling season is over
[13:46] Rose Springvale: thank you Lilith.
[13:47] Lilith Ivory smiles
[13:47] Rose Springvale: Arria had Citizenship and posted this on the forum: I cannot make a report about my commission. I can nevertheless inform the RA that I have scheduled a meeting the Tuesday 19 August.
[13:47] Rose Springvale: Finance, Tor?
[13:48] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: nuf of that
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: I can be brief
[13:48] Tor Karlsvalt: During the past week the Treasure drafted new procedures in accordance with the new tier collection law. We are awaiting the official posting of the new regulations. However I offer the following summary.
The Due Date for tier payments will be set as the 7th of the month.
Tier boxes will be open from the 28th through the 13th.
On the 13th of the month, parcels will be re-possessed in guarantee of payment.
On the 21st of the month, parcels sill in delinquency will be set for sale and objects on the parcel will be returned.
These regulations will take effect on September 1, 2010
I am sure we all look forward to the Treasure’s official posting and thank her for her quick response to the new law. Her regulations capture the intent and spirt of the law.
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: lots of lag
[13:49] Tor Karlsvalt: I will also plan future meetings.
[13:50] Patroklus Murakami: are there plans for communicating this new system to our citizens? i’d hate for ppl to lose their land because we did not warn them sufficiently!
[13:50] Rose Springvale: Sudane is working with the Chancellor
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: I believe Arria and Jamie have made motions for some changes to the law
[13:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: which laws does this re vise
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, Pat
[13:50] CLEOPATRA Xigalia: which laws will you delete to do ths
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane has the plan drafed
[13:50] Tor Karlsvalt: ready to go
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt: I am sure she will be publishing it soon.
[13:51] Rose Springvale: Thank you Tor, and thanks for opening back up for more issues.
[13:51] Rose Springvale: The law was NL-9 i think?
[13:51] Rose Springvale: no
[13:51] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 9-2
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: Um I know you suggestedit be renumbered
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: Probably Sudane would have preferred that as well
[13:52] Rose Springvale: thanks gwyn. It just gets confusing when it all relates back, but we’ll leave that up to the RA archivist to sort
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes hehe
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew !
[13:52] Tor Karlsvalt: I note that her draft left the number blank
[13:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[13:52] Rose Springvale: Anything else Tor?
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: um, Jamie has proposed some legislation
[13:53] Rose Springvale: yes, though lets put that on the agenda in a future meeting
[13:53] Tor Karlsvalt: the tread is
http://forums.slcds.info/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2990&p=16212#p16212
[13:54] Rose Springvale: that doesn’t come from the commission so we need to address it directly in RA
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Jamie’s proposed bill
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, i will probably cover this in a future meeting of the commission
[13:54] Patroklus Murakami: hopefully it won’t be needed as the information will be disclosed in any case
[13:54] Rose Springvale: and it will be on the agenda in the next two meetings, subject to availability
[13:54] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[13:55] Rose Springvale: I urge all the RA members to read the thread, so we can discuss it.
[13:55] Tor Karlsvalt: that’s it then
[13:55] Pip Torok: so noted
[13:55] Rose Springvale: We’ll have the chancellors report in one of those meetings as well, so perhaps that will be helpful
[13:55] Rose Springvale: Thank you Tor
[13:55] Rose Springvale: Kas? how’s the communications commission doing?
[13:55] Kaseido Quandry: It’s been my intention to hold another round of meetings –
[13:56] Kaseido Quandry: to explain/discuss the new notice provisions and other elements of the Public Information Act
[13:56] Kaseido Quandry: however, that presumes its implementatin
[13:56] Cindy Ecksol:
[13:56] Kaseido Quandry: As most of you know, The Chancellor and PIO have refused to meet, and have not implemented the Act.
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn gave you Final Recommendations for the Election Commission.
[13:57] Patroklus Murakami: here we go…
[13:57] Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
[13:57] Kaseido Quandry: This smells to me like the beginnings of a constititional problem, and I’d like to ask the RA’s guidance on how to collectively proceed, if/when it’s appropriate to have that discussion
[13:57] Cindy Ecksol: Kas, have they given you any reason for not meeting?
[13:58] Cindy Ecksol: or for not implementing?
[13:58] Patroklus Murakami: why have the chancellor and PIO ‘refused to meet’? what evidence do you have for this claim?
[13:58] Kaseido Quandry: I’ve received no direct or indirect response from either, either to the forum thread or to my inworld notecard request
[13:58] Rose Springvale: sighs.
[13:58] Rose Springvale: our group roles haven’t been updated in the CDS group either.
[13:58] Kaseido Quandry: Pat, the evidence speaks for itself.
[13:58] Rose Springvale: Pat do you have suggestions ?
[13:59] Kaseido Quandry: As to why, I honestly have no idea.
[13:59] Patroklus Murakami: that is not evidence. there could be other reasons why you have not had a response
[13:59] Kaseido Quandry: There is no meeting and no implementation. I have not addressed motive at any time.
[13:59] Rose Springvale shakes heads. lets focus on solutions please
[13:59] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps we could invite them to the next RA meeting to find out what the problem is? < - solution [14:00] Cindy Ecksol: Well, seems like the next step is to ask the to report to the RA on implementation [14:00] Kaseido Quandry: Agreed, Pat. [14:00] Cindy Ecksol: Chancellor's update to RA would be a good opportunity for that. [14:00] Rose Springvale: okay. We are due for the Chancellor report as well [14:00] Lilith Ivory: sounds like an idea Pat [14:00] Rose Springvale: so we'll ask for that at the next meeting. Thanks. [14:00] Tor Karlsvalt: ideally it shoiuld be cleared up before the election [14:00] Cindy Ecksol: either there's an answer...or there are excuses. [14:00] Cindy Ecksol: we'll see! [14:01] Rose Springvale: I'll send a note to the Chancellor, to accomodate her schedule. [14:01] Rose Springvale: Anything else Kaseido? [14:01] Kaseido Quandry: However, I would like to schedule a public meeting with the eventual Archivist, to explain what they do and how their work fits into overall government communications - I think that'd be informative and constructive [14:01] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps the chancellor is exercising her veto powers? [14:02] Rose Springvale: Needs to tell us if so i think. [14:02] Patroklus Murakami: indeed rose [14:02] Patroklus Murakami: just speculating [14:02] Rose Springvale: sounds like a good idea, kas, to figure out who does what in communications [14:02] Rose Springvale: Gwyn are you back? [14:03] Rose Springvale: She's stepped away for a moment [14:03] Kaseido Quandry: I'll work to schedule that as soon as we have an Archivist [14:03] Rose Springvale: great, thank you Kas [14:03] Rose Springvale: Gwyn has placed the Electoral commission report in the box, you can all get a copy of it [14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'm back, sorry! [14:04] Rose Springvale: okay floor is yours [14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks [14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I'll really spare this assembly the copying and pasting of all the text [14:04] Rose Springvale: can everyone get the notecard this week? [14:04] Lilith Ivory nods [14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if you can't: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3026 [14:04] Patroklus Murakami: yes [14:05] Rose Springvale: perfect, thanks gwyn [14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now sadly we did a big mistake lol [14:05] Rose Springvale: smiles [14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We all assumed it was SIMPLE to fill in the dates for election But only when we closed the meeting, [14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: assuming that I'd figure out the calculations, [14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I found out that they are anything but obvious hehe [14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that's the homework for the RA today [14:06] Rose Springvale: explain please [14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, just an overview... you can read the text on your own better (and faster) than I can type... [14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: First, on the explanation of the voting system, [14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we suggested a "voter's guide" like we had before, but explaining how STV works in terms of "tactical voting" [14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That means having a volunteer to explain a few scenarios
[14:07] Pip Torok: we cd lift one direct from wiki
[14:07] Patroklus Murakami: STVs easy – vote your preferences
[14:07] Kaseido Quandry: lol, no
[14:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s a good idea. Pip!
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No…. it’s not that easy, Pat…
[14:08] Patroklus Murakami: translating votes into seats is difficult but we have computers to do that!
[14:08] Kaseido Quandry: Um, the Wikipedia article is brilliant, but ferociously complicated, and covers more and different scenarios from ours
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What I think we had in mind is something like this….
[14:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Imagine we have candidateds named a through F
[14:09] Pip Torok denies that its ferociously complicated
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Someone wants to have A and B in, and C and D out.
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is the best ranking to achieve that?
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That kind of thing.
[14:09] Pip Torok agrees
[14:09] Patroklus Murakami: vote A, B. don’t transfer to C and D. easy
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should you rank A, B, E, F, C, D?
[14:09] Rose Springvale: what is the best ranking? (hates math)
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or just vote A, B?
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or A, B, E, F? That’s the kind of thing
[14:09] Patroklus Murakami: but i get your point gwyn. that would not be too difficult to write
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay do I hear a volunteer?
[14:10] Patroklus Murakami: no. sorry
[14:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: dang! lol
[14:10] Tor Karlsvalt: I understood that STV was difficult to influence like that
[14:10] Tor Karlsvalt: That is what i read in the wiki anyway
[14:11] Rose Springvale: the idea of “tactical” voting in a community like ours gives me hives
[14:11] Cindy Ecksol: Yes, it is Tor
[14:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the scenario I gave is a typical one. A citizen knows what they want to have. How should they rank the candidates so that they get the desired result?
[14:11] Cindy Ecksol: it’s just very difficult to vote “tactically”
[14:11] Cindy Ecksol: beyond simple ranking of your preferred candidates.
[14:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (e,g, they want A, B in; C, D out; E, F, irrelevant)
[14:11] Patroklus Murakami: they should rank who they want and leave out candidates they don’t like. STV is really easy for voters to use
[14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: But in a small group perhaps not
[14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: donno
[14:12] Pip Torok: i suggest that each presents a staright ranking of preferred candidates, leaving none out
[14:12] Cindy Ecksol: so they would vote A, B, nothing else.
[14:12] Patroklus Murakami: and the results respect their choices pretty accurately
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. See, I got that wrong on the last elections!
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn’t know we could leave candidates out.
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I ranked all
[14:12] Rose Springvale: smiles at gwyn
[14:12] Kaseido Quandry: See, we’re guessing blindly!
[14:12] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks for the vote Gwyn
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn knows she’s silly
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[14:12] Patroklus Murakami: i should have spoken to you beforehand gwynnie
[14:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should have read the wiki page before… or rather… *understood* it
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: ranked all out of politeness
[14:13] Lilith Ivory: lol
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes true, Pat
[14:13] Cindy Ecksol: actually ranking more than 4 is pretty irrelevant.
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: see, Cindy, that’s another important thinG!
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway…
[14:13] Kaseido Quandry: I read it 3 times, and I *know* I don’t understand it
[14:13] Rose Springvale: so what i’m hearing is a need for voter information and that’s the proposal, correct?
[14:13] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear Kas
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The recommendationis really to get someone who *does* understand STV to make a short “guide” to explain it in plain English.
[14:13] Rose Springvale: Anyone want to volunteer?
[14:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s the proposal, yes.
[14:14] Tor Karlsvalt: Jon might
[14:14] Patroklus Murakami: an FAQ would be good
[14:14] Cindy Ecksol: But Gwyn, if you want to get VERY sophisticated, to help make sure C and D don’t make it, you’d rank A, B, E, F…..and C and D would lonly get votes if it went past 4 rounds
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if we have a volunteer in this room, I’d move to support him/her immediately If not, I suggest that the RA approves a simple motion to look for a volunteer on the forums, in-world, etc
[14:14] Rose Springvale: okay, do you want us to vote on this proposal gwyn, then we can go to the community for volunteers?
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Rose!
[14:14] Cindy Ecksol: essentially by ranking honestly, you influence the probability of each candidate being elected.
[14:14] Rose Springvale: So, lets have the motion
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn sees Cindy as an excellent candidate to write that FAQ!
[14:14] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: ok, see me later….it’s not htat complicated.
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Move to let the RA search a volunteer to write a short FAQ on STV.
[14:15] Patroklus Murakami: second
[14:15] Rose Springvale: thank you
[14:15] Tor Karlsvalt proud that he does indeed no when to shut up
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: discussion?
[14:15] Rose Springvale: any discussion on this?
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (announcing the search on official channels)
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn, why doesn’t someone on your election commission do this?
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because uh
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: seems like a natural outgrowth….
[14:15] Rose Springvale: they have a LOT to do lol
[14:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we were not the brightest kids in the block
[14:16] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[14:16] Rose Springvale: and we want to bring in more volunteers!
[14:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and humbly admit we don’t understnd it so well!
[14:16] Cindy Ecksol: so we should approve your bill…but someone else needs to explain it?????
[14:16] Cindy Ecksol: wow, that is SCARY!!!!
[14:16] Rose Springvale: I’ll help whoever write it
[14:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn is always fine in admitting ignorance and getting experts do the work better
[14:16] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe jon could present the calculations
[14:16] Kaseido Quandry: Hence the Commission mandate to explore alternative voting systems!
[14:16] Rose Springvale: smiles
[14:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, kas, I forgot that last paragraph.
[14:16] Rose Springvale: any other discussion on the motion?
[14:17] Patroklus Murakami: nah
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[14:17] Rose Springvale: here is the motion then: Move to let the RA search a volunteer to write a short FAQ on STV.
[14:17] Rose Springvale: All in favor?
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[14:17] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[14:17] Pip Torok: aye
[14:17] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[14:17] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:17] Timo Gufler: aye
[14:17] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[14:18] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[14:18] Cindy Ecksol: unnecessary I think, but aye
[14:18] Rose Springvale: thank you . Motion carries
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn still looks at Cindy to volunteer hehe
[14:18] Rose Springvale: one down gwyn
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh!
[14:18] Cindy Ecksol looks over her shoulder to see who Gwyn is looking at
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Kas mentioned (very correctly) that the Election Commission will continue to meet and look at alternatives, although I guess we ought to wait for the FAQ first.
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next point?
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Campaigning.
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This one was made easy thanks to the SC,
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: who did a recent ruling making clear that they don’t see it as constitutional to have the SC “run the elections”
[14:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not copying & pasting what’s in the notecard. This is a new bill, Campaigning Act
[14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hopefully it clarifies what was confiusing last elections
[14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’ll see that some organising roles are now assigned to the Execm
[14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the SC just “Oversees”
[14:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (e.g. gets the complains )
[14:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it, we can discuss…
[14:21] Rose Springvale: thanks gwyn
[14:21] Rose Springvale: Anyone have questions?
[14:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (perhaps a small note… these rules will also be used for the Chancellor election IF that bill passes…. to be discussed later)
[14:22] Rose Springvale: smiles.
[14:22] Patroklus Murakami: what does “no further campaigning/political group notices are allowed.” mean?
[14:23] Patroklus Murakami: are we talking about the CDS group notices? or any notices?
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One and only one group notice.
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Group notices.
[14:23] Rose Springvale: on the CDS group, correct?
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[14:23] Patroklus Murakami: what about faction notices?
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or any official CDS group
[14:23] Rose Springvale: presuming the Communications Bill is implemented
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, these are not legislated, since factions are not recognised by the Government as being anythig special
[14:23] Rose Springvale: we don’t really have jurisdiction on those
[14:23] Lilith Ivory wouldn´t be happy to get spammed with private notes also
[14:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly
[14:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Private organisations
[14:24] Patroklus Murakami: well, they’re not entirley private. they’re in the constitution!
[14:24] Patroklus Murakami: could we make it clear it’s CDS group notices for the avoidance of doubt?
[14:24] Patroklus Murakami: Candidates would be allowed ONE official CDS group notice,
[14:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that amendment.
[14:25] Rose Springvale: and other govenmental groups.. we dont need them on Colonia nova group, Land Verwhatever etc
[14:25] Rose Springvale: ?
[14:25] Lilith Ivory nods
[14:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… Pat is right… what this bill intends is to legislate on the official CDS channels,
[14:25] Tor Karlsvalt: actualy that ould open it to other group nocieces
[14:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whatever they are
[14:25] Rose Springvale: not even sure those are open to notices.
[14:26] Tor Karlsvalt: only one CDS notice and one of other groups too
[14:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That is up to the Comms Commission to decide which ones of those groups are official or not.
[14:26] Rose Springvale: okay, good. So we’ll amend to say “CDS Group Notice”?
[14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would suggest: “Candidates would be allowed ONE group notice on the official CDS group(s)”. What is an official CDS group or not is TBD, outside this bill.
[14:27] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[14:27] Kaseido Quandry: that works
[14:27] Pip Torok supports the suggestion
[14:28] Rose Springvale: Do we need the event language as part of this law?
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: BTW, note that we have been mean and allowed candidates to throw parties and other events that can be SPONSORED by them, and these will be announced, but the announcement cannot be turned into a political message.
[14:28] Lilith Ivory giggles
[14:28] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was meant as a clarification, but if it’s clear what it means, we can strike it from the bill.
[14:28] Cindy Ecksol: sounds like of like some of the rules we have in the US for campaign financing….
[14:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That might have been the intention, Cindy
[14:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn
[14:29] Cindy Ecksol: yikes, not a GOOD thing!
[14:29] Patroklus Murakami: so, how about faction ‘meet our candidates’ meetings? would they be allowed?
[14:29] Cindy Ecksol: those rules are insane….
[14:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Allowed and encouraged, Pat
[14:29] Cindy Ecksol: I don’t think we need to be specifying anything about parties or “meet the candidate” faction events
[14:29] Patroklus Murakami: and could the faction send a cds group notice to advertise them?
[14:29] Rose Springvale: “Candidates may sponsor general information events which may be announced on official channels as events only.”
[14:29] Kaseido Quandry: yes, absolutely
[14:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ONE announcement, sure
[14:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I like that, Rose!
[14:30] Patroklus Murakami: just checking
[14:30] Rose Springvale: Candidates or Factions or other groups may sponsor general information events ….
[14:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Better still
[14:30] Cindy Ecksol: …:and announce them via….?
[14:30] Kaseido Quandry: any way they want.
[14:31] Cindy Ecksol: CDS Group Notice?
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: including “any official CDS channels for communication.”
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[14:31] Rose Springvale: which may be announced on official channels as events only
[14:31] Cindy Ecksol: CDS GROUP IM?
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like any event.
[14:31] Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
[14:31] Kaseido Quandry: the *only* limit is on candidate campaign access to the CDS group inworld
[14:31] Cindy Ecksol: hard to enforce “no politics” Rose.
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… whatever is defined as an official CDS communication channel, yes
[14:31] Rose Springvale: well, if it says “meet Rose springvale, party at 7”
[14:31] Cindy Ecksol: SC is going to be deluged with requests for review of “violations” to the “one announceent” rule
[14:31] Rose Springvale: its’ okay
[14:31] Rose Springvale: if it says
[14:31] Tor Karlsvalt: Can they be posted to the calendar?
[14:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like Kas says. Any others, f they become official CDS events, HAVE to go through the Exec
[14:31] Rose Springvale: Meet Rose Springvale, best and brightest candidate for the RA, not so
[14:32] Cindy Ecksol: and what if my friend announces a “political party” for ME in CDS channels?
[14:32] Cindy Ecksol: is that MY violations???
[14:32] Rose Springvale: theirs
[14:32] muhammedyussif Wikinger:
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Theirs
[14:32] Rose Springvale: law applies to everyone
[14:32] Cindy Ecksol: why theirs? that was THEIR first notice!!
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But also the Exec’s!
[14:32] Cindy Ecksol: but second notice about ME!
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait, Cindy
[14:32] Rose Springvale: the notice can only be about the event
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If that note goes through the official CDS channels,
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s the Exec that posts it,
[14:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not “your friend”
[14:33] Cindy Ecksol: so how would you word the notice?
[14:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the Exec is mandated to follow this law.
[14:33] Cindy Ecksol: “Hey, I’m having a party”?
[14:33] Rose Springvale: hmm, not sure that works with the comm act, does it Kas?
[14:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “Join my party and meet my friend Cindy!”
[14:33] Cindy Ecksol: couldn’t say much beyond that….and everyone would know the point that Cindy is a candidate…
[14:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Of course
[14:33] Cindy Ecksol: so what’s the point of restricting?
[14:33] Kaseido Quandry: hmmm…
[14:33] Tor Karlsvalt: can you post a sign about the event?
[14:33] Cindy Ecksol: good question, Tor
[14:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Restricting the *candidates* ability to post. There is nothing wrong with having the *Exec* posting.
[14:34] Rose Springvale: to eliminate the “i’m the best and brightest and the rest are controlling freaks” messages
[14:34] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[14:34] Cindy Ecksol: what if the exec is also a candidate???
[14:34] Kaseido Quandry: OMG! you can do anything you want *except* use the government faclitlies more than once
[14:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, not to eliminate — to restrict it to just ONE message
[14:34] Cindy Ecksol: what if the exec is from an opposing faction?
[14:34] Kaseido Quandry: this is not complicated!
[14:34] Cindy Ecksol: Kas, it IS complicated.
[14:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Exec has to abide by the rules too
[14:34] Cindy Ecksol: there are too many ways to get around the INTENT
[14:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, that’s why we have the SC to figure out intent
[14:34] Cindy Ecksol: funny, gwyn, VERY funny!
[14:35] Lilith Ivory: didn´t your bill say you´re allowed to post One by your own?
[14:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They have to earn their bread & butter too
[14:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Lilith
[14:35] Cindy Ecksol: personally I think it’s better that we don’t restrict postings at all.
[14:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one without “interference”
[14:35] Tor Karlsvalt: ok so we are only limiting official communication notices
[14:35] Rose Springvale: that doesn’t answer the concern about spam Cindy
[14:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Tor
[14:35] Cindy Ecksol: let’s deal with a two-week “silly season” and only chase after people who grossly abuse
[14:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn points at what Rose just said.
[14:35] Cindy Ecksol: anyone who doesn’t like it can simply turn off notices
[14:35] Tor Karlsvalt: you can have signs or private group notices
[14:36] Kaseido Quandry: oh, “one” is vague, and “grossly abuse” isn’t?
[14:36] Rose Springvale: we lose group members .. then they don’t get messages we WANT them to get
[14:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s in the Constitution, the no spam provision; this act just reinforcs it: “Campaigning ought to be supervised by the SC as they see fit, trying to keep a balance between limiting spam and allowing free access of candidates to do their campaigning”
[14:36] Cindy Ecksol: no, they’re BOTH vague….that’s my point.
[14:36] Cindy Ecksol: let any candidate announce as many times as they need to.
[14:36] Rose Springvale: like.. tier is no longer going to have a three month grace period.
[14:36] Cindy Ecksol: if they’re annoying, people won’t vote for them.
[14:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (personally I was for NO announcements at all, but this was felt to be unfair )
[14:36] Cindy Ecksol: and they’ll just turn off notices.
[14:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … thus missing all the notices from the legitimate candidates that are playing fair
[14:37] Rose Springvale: i’m opposed to that, becasue i don’t want them to turn off notices
[14:37] Cindy Ecksol: I don’t understand what’s so difficult for people about using the “delete” button during that two week campaign period
[14:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Heh. This falls neatly into the last point, ethics
[14:37] Rose Springvale: okay, anything else on this issue?
[14:37] Patroklus Murakami: perhaps this proposal needs more thought before we vote on it?
[14:37] Rose Springvale: others who’ve not spoken?
[14:37] Cindy Ecksol: how about allowing ONE notice….but as many group IM’s as a candidate cares to do?
[14:38] Cindy Ecksol: to the “official groups” that is
[14:38] muhammedyussif Wikinger: no
[14:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It would still be spam…
[14:38] Rose Springvale: this has come from the commission, we can amend it, but this is the recommended language
[14:38] Patroklus Murakami: we could table it for discussion on the forums and then the next RA..
[14:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It has been on the forums for eons, Pat
[14:38] Rose Springvale: i think we should respect the work and vote on this part. Then the current candidates can use it
[14:38] Rose Springvale: or not
[14:38] Patroklus Murakami: it clearly has not had sufficient attention to bring out the issues gwyn
[14:38] Rose Springvale: i disagree pat
[14:39] Patroklus Murakami: that’s why we are debating detail here
[14:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I also disagree, but I’m biased lol
[14:39] Rose Springvale: how many meetings have you held Gwyn?
[14:39] Cindy Ecksol: this is the first RA discussion.
[14:39] Cindy Ecksol: needs another one.
[14:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: three
[14:39] Rose Springvale: thanks
[14:39] Cindy Ecksol: I move we table until next meeting
[14:39] Patroklus Murakami: second
[14:39] Kaseido Quandry: .
[14:39] Rose Springvale: all in favor of tabling this?
[14:39] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[14:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nay
[14:39] Rose Springvale: oh wait
[14:39] Pip Torok: aye
[14:39] Tor Karlsvalt: nay
[14:39] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[14:39] Rose Springvale: do we need discussion?
[14:39] Timo Gufler: aye
[14:39] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[14:39] Cindy Ecksol: non-debatable rose
[14:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the tabling? I don’t think so
[14:39] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[14:39] Rose Springvale: k,
[14:39] Lilith Ivory: nay
[14:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on tabling, Kas?
[14:40] Kaseido Quandry: aye on tabling
[14:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oK!
[14:40] Rose Springvale: 5 aye, 2 nay, we will table this to the next meeting
[14:40] Rose Springvale: which will not help our by election candidates, but okay
[14:41] Rose Springvale: want to introduce the next point gwyn?
[14:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure!
[14:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now THAT one will need discussion hehe
[14:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. So, from the move to St. League to STV, we lost one aspect
[14:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Formally, the LRA is supposed to be an administrative role,
[14:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and it was automatically assigned to the candidate with the most votes
[14:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, with STV, it’s not easy to know who exactly had “the most votes”; the concept doesn’t really make much sense.
[14:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Last term we had a problem in defining WHO would set up the FIRST meeting,
[14:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and what agenda to set.
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This commission proposes that it’s all automatic.
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No thinking
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The dates for the first meeting AND the first agenda are *fixed*
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So candidates *already* know when the 1st meeting is,
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and don’t even need to “get together and decide on a date”.
[14:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now…
[14:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’ll see that the commission didn’t have a consensual recommendation.
[14:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Part suggests that since the LRA is just an administrative role,
[14:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: internal to the RA,
[14:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so Alternative A is that the RA just meets 24 hours after the booths close for voting,
[14:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and elect an LRA. Simple.
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other part views the LRA as having an important political role.
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In that case,
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: citizens ought to give some thought before commiting votes to canddiates
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and there will be some need for candidates to do some backbenching to agree on potential candidates.
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alternaive B proposes a week of delay, between the closing of the booths,
[14:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the first meeting,
[14:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and additionally suggests that canddiates for the LRA (not only regular candidacies for the RA!) are also publicly announced before elections.
[14:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So this is something the RA has to vote as alternatives (or propose changes!)
[14:46] Patroklus Murakami: did the commission consider having another party call the first meeting? the outgoing LRA? or the chancellor for example?
[14:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. We considered that *thoroughly*
[14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And at least on that there was a consensus,
[14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no external entities should interfere.
[14:47] Patroklus Murakami: and why did you reject this eminently sensible way forward?
[14:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree with that !
[14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of constititional issues actually. The RA is supposed to be independent on external entities,
[14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no matter how “convenient” the alternative might have sounded.
[14:47] Tor Karlsvalt: the new RA shuld be independant of the old RA or ther branch
[14:47] Cindy Ecksol: nice, gwyn. I like the way you did that.
[14:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Precisely like Tor says.
[14:48] Rose Springvale: (all the transcripts are posted btw)
[14:48] Patroklus Murakami: but the previous LRA is still LRA until the new one comes in
[14:48] Kaseido Quandry: no, actually
[14:48] Cindy Ecksol: no, the previous LRA is out of office with theend of the old term.
[14:48] Kaseido Quandry: when the RA dissolves, the LRA goes with it – it’s not an autonomous post
[14:48] Cindy Ecksol: just like all RA members….
[14:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Actually Kas is right, You’re confusing it with the Chancellor, Pat
[14:48] Patroklus Murakami: well, the probllem with fixed dates is that they are too fixed
[14:48] Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn’s proposal has a provision to let RA members vote to change the date
[14:48] Patroklus Murakami: the first task of the LRA under teh old system was to find a date for meetings
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha. See the provision: the RA *can* change the dates IF they can agree, within 24 hours, to do so!
[14:49] Patroklus Murakami: probably the hardest task of the term
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly!
[14:49] Tor Karlsvalt: hence the need for the new rules
[14:49] Patroklus Murakami: fixing it on one day at noon will disadvantage some RA members
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So under this system, the FIRST meeting happens no matter what.
[14:49] Rose Springvale: that’s why it is important that candidates be aware of the first meeting before running
[14:49] Patroklus Murakami: ppl who work on saturdays
[14:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Tough, Pat, we have 7-day votes for that.
[14:49] Patroklus Murakami: or for whom noon is not convenient
[14:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like Rose said. Candidates KNOW well in advance when they will have to attend the first meeting.
[14:50] Patroklus Murakami: they may KNOW but may not be ABLE
[14:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Alt A — Sunday noon, 24 hours later; Alt B — Saturday noon on the next week)
[14:50] Cindy Ecksol: so gwyn do you need an amendment to choose 1A or 1B?
[14:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7-day vote, pat. All they need to do is to elect a LRA.
[14:50] Rose Springvale: they aren’t motions yet
[14:50] Rose Springvale: this is committee report.. we’ll get to motions
[14:51] Patroklus Murakami: difficult to see how anyone who can’t attend could be elected LRA under this system
[14:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Vote for Alt B then, Pat — it allows LRA elections to be more political.
[14:51] Cindy Ecksol: ok, I move the commission’s “New Term Act” with alternative 1B
[14:51] Rose Springvale: they could lobby they remaining members to change the date w/i 24 hours
[14:51] Patroklus Murakami: i think you rejected the simple solution – someone else organises the first meeting – too quickly
[14:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alt A is an attempt to make the LRA less political and more administrative.
[14:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, actually we didn’t reject it “too quickly”.
[14:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We asked for opinions about cross-branch interference.
[14:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The consensus was really, really against it.
[14:52] Patroklus Murakami: well, you rejected it without adequate consideration then
[14:52] Cindy Ecksol thinks they considered VERY adequately
[14:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I wouldn’t really propose something that I’d be sure the SC would veto,
[14:52] Rose Springvale: smiles. There is a motion on the floor, do we have a second?
[14:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in light of the recent comment the SC made
[14:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: fully rejecting their own interference in the elections
[14:53] Rose Springvale: Cindy Ecksol: ok, I move the commission’s “New Term Act” with alternative 1B
[14:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We would have been careless if we didn’t read into that comment a clear desire to keep away from branches interfering
[14:54] Cindy Ecksol: anyone want to second that?
[14:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy, just to be clear, and that would also include: “ADD. Candidates for the Leadership of the Representative Assembly should publicly announce their intentions on the offical CDS forums before the election booths open” as the new point 2 (and renumbering the rest)?
[14:54] Rose Springvale: smiles and looks around…
[14:54] Cindy Ecksol: gwyn? care to second?
[14:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn is deliberately not seconding because I want Alternative A hehe
[14:54] Rose Springvale: i think that’s a separate issue myself, and hope the motion doesn’t include it
[14:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry Cindy! lol
[14:54] Cindy Ecksol: I’m ok with that….
[14:54] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[14:55] Tor Karlsvalt: haaha
[14:55] Cindy Ecksol: now THAT I think is “too quick”
[14:55] Cindy Ecksol: but maybe it can get a second
[14:55] Rose Springvale: are you moving it to the table gwyn?
[14:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hey, we even considered doing the first meeting at the moment the booths closed
[14:55] Tor Karlsvalt: actually I am inclined to agree with Gwyn
[14:55] Cindy Ecksol: I withdraw my motion for lack of a second
[14:55] Rose Springvale: thank you cindy
[14:55] Rose Springvale: Gwyn?
[14:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I move to adopt Alternative A.
[14:55] Rose Springvale: second?
[14:55] Kaseido Quandry: second
[14:56] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[14:56] Cindy Ecksol:
[14:56] Rose Springvale: great. more discussion? or call for vote?
[14:56] Cindy Ecksol: move to close discussion
[14:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note that we can discuss “ADD. Candidates for the Leadership of the Representative Assembly should publicly announce their intentions on the offical CDS forums before the election booths open” later, separately
[14:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconds closing discussion
[14:56] Rose Springvale: all in favor of closing discussion which then leads to vote
[14:56] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[14:56] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[14:56] Pip Torok: aye
[14:56] Timo Gufler: aye!
[14:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on closing
[14:56] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:57] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[14:57] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[14:57] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[14:57] Rose Springvale: great. motion is to adopt Alternative A
[14:57] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[14:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[14:57] Pip Torok: aye
[14:57] Patroklus Murakami: nay
[14:57] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[14:57] Timo Gufler: aye
[14:57] Cindy Ecksol: alt A without “ADD…etc,”?
[14:57] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:57] Rose Springvale: no add correct
[14:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wwithout — we can introduce that for voting next
[14:57] Cindy Ecksol: ok, then aye
[14:58] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[14:58] Patroklus Murakami: hmm. now we’re amending motions after they pass?
[14:58] Rose Springvale: wait
[14:58] Rose Springvale: missing one vote i think?
[14:59] Rose Springvale: no i guess that’s everyone. I vote Aye as well.
[14:59] Rose Springvale: now
[14:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’re just voting point by point, Pat, since there wasn’t a single alternative on this bill
[14:59] Rose Springvale: motion carries. Do you want to introduce another motion?
[14:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (not me, lol — but anyone is free to do so hehe )
[14:59] Cindy Ecksol sits on hands
[14:59] Rose Springvale: Does anyone want to introduse the ADD motion?
[15:00] Rose Springvale: if not, lets save the rest of this for our next meeting.
[15:00] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn, i know you have worked hard on this
[15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not just me…
[15:00] Rose Springvale: smiles, your commission and the citizens.
[15:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thank the commission members for their hard work!
[15:01] Kaseido Quandry: it was fun! mostly…..
[15:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh!
[15:01] Tor Karlsvalt:
[15:01] Rose Springvale: okay, we’ll pick up the tabled motion and the rest of the report at our next RA meeting
[15:01] Rose Springvale: Do we have any concerns to address today?
[15:01] Patroklus Murakami: when is the next meeting rose?
[15:01] Tor Karlsvalt: just one
[15:01] Rose Springvale: (hang on pat, will get to that
[15:02] Rose Springvale: Tor?
[15:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I wonder if the chancellor could publish a schedule for restarting the sims
[15:02] Tor Karlsvalt: they have been very laggy
[15:02] Rose Springvale: We will have the chancellor here for a report in the next couple of meetings, i suggest we put together questions for her for then
[15:02] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[15:02] Rose Springvale: in the meantime, just send her a note and ask?
[15:03] Rose Springvale: other concerns?
[15:04] Rose Springvale: okay, i note we are in the midst of the by election next week
[15:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, just before I forget, can we have Jamie’s proposed bill up for discussion on the next RA meeting too?
[15:04] Rose Springvale: hopefully, will check schedules
[15:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, thank you
[15:04] Rose Springvale: I suggest, that even though we have not finished this agenda, we not meet next week
[15:05] Rose Springvale: rather meet the week of August 15
[15:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of the by-elections?
[15:05] Rose Springvale: and probably on SAturday if we want the chancellor here
[15:05] Tor Karlsvalt: true, give the new members time to catch up
[15:06] Kaseido Quandry: sounds good
[15:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’ll be fine with that…
[15:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[15:06] Lilith Ivory nods
[15:06] Patroklus Murakami: ok
[15:06] Timo Gufler: I will leave now… bedtime
[15:06] Rose Springvale: good. I know Saturday is hard for you though gwyn, so we’ll meet as early as we can
[15:06] Timo Gufler: bye
[15:06] Kaseido Quandry: btw, the Google Calendar’s listing of a town hall this Saturday is wrong, yes?
[15:06] Tor Karlsvalt: nite Timo
[15:06] Cindy Ecksol: not too early please…I can’t meet on Sat before 11
[15:06] Rose Springvale: haven’t seen it Kas, so assume so
[15:06] Kaseido Quandry: I’ll clean it up, if I can
[15:06] Tor Karlsvalt: it does,
[15:07] Rose Springvale: okay. Watch the announcements for the exact date and time.
[15:07] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[15:07] Rose Springvale: I’d also like to thank Pat for his service this term, as i believe this will be his last meeting
[15:07] Kaseido Quandry: ok, done – last session’s times were up on a permanent basis
[15:07] Kaseido Quandry applauds
[15:07] Patroklus Murakami: ty rose
[15:07] Kaseido Quandry: hear hear!
[15:07] Lilith Ivory applauds
[15:07] Rose Springvale: thank you pat!
[15:07] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[15:07] Pip Torok stands and applauses
[15:07] Rose Springvale: and best of luck on the new house and promotion
[15:07] Patroklus Murakami: best wishes for the remainder of the term everyone
[15:08] Rose Springvale: Any other announcements?
[15:08] Kaseido Quandry: anybody going to be at SLCC?
[15:08] Rose Springvale: motion to adjourn will be entertained then
[15:08] Rose Springvale: ah
[15:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Have fun, Pat
[15:08] Rose Springvale: smiles
[15:08] Rose Springvale: Delia is
[15:08] Tor Karlsvalt: Deliais
[15:08] Rose Springvale: are you Kas?
[15:08] Kaseido Quandry: Barring more sick relatives, yep
[15:08] Rose Springvale: i think solomon is too
[15:08] Cindy Ecksol: move to adjourn
[15:08] Rose Springvale: second?
[15:08] Pip Torok: second
[15:08] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[15:09] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[15:09] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[15:09] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[15:09] Lilith Ivory: aye
[15:09] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[15:09] Pip Torok: aye
[15:09] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[15:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[15:09] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[15:09] Rose Springvale: thank you all, we are adjourned!

Permalink.

RA Meeting 21 August 2010

Transcript, RA meeting August 21, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Aug 21, 2010 1:54 pm
[10:00] Rose Springvale: let me remind everyone that we record and transcript all CDS RA meetings, if you speak you will have consented
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow Rose — that’s a record, I’m sure!
[10:00] Kaseido Quandry seconds that
[10:01] Rose Springvale: and welcome to everyoen. We have a full schedule, and i’ll be wicked with the agenda times, so hopefully eveyrone is prepared
[10:01] Lilith Ivory: back
[10:01] Rose Springvale: agenda is in the box on the table
[10:01] Keila Forager: did you ask SL Rose? hehe
[10:01] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:02] Rose Springvale: Welcome to Keila… and congrats to you and mikelo on your successful bid to join our august group
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: congrats indeed to the new victims, I mean, representatives!
[10:02] Rose Springvale: ah, here comes mikelo…
[10:02] Rose Springvale: welcome Mikelo
[10:02] Lilith Ivory: yea congratz to you both
[10:02] Mikelo Serevi: hi, still rezzing
[10:02] Keila Forager: Thanks
[10:03] Rose Springvale: Delia said she’d be here to do the swearing in, so come on up and take your seat, when she gets here… (and she just logged on) we’ll do that
[10:03] Mikelo Serevi: I hope I dont’run over anyone
[10:03] Rose Springvale: You can see the results of the 7 day voting on the agenda, so congrat to cindy as our new RA Archivist.
[10:03] Rose Springvale: Are there additions or corrections to the agenda?
[10:03] Lilith Ivory: congrats Cindy
[10:03] Callipygian Christensen: Who was in charge of putting the whoopee cushions on Keila and Mikelo’s seats?
[10:03] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:04] Rose Springvale: SL
[10:04] Rose Springvale:
[10:04] Keila Forager: Too late Calli..hehe
[10:04] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Mikelo
[10:04] Mikelo Serevi: hi
[10:04] Pip Torok: hi Mikelo … congrats and welcome
[10:04] Mikelo Serevi: thx pip
[10:05] Rose Springvale: smiles, here comes delia
[10:05] Rose Springvale: we are ready for you Delia
[10:06] Delia Lake: sorry. still rezzing
[10:06] Delia’s translator: lo siento. Todavía rezzing
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Delia, Hi Rosie
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi soro
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good morning Delia
[10:06] Pip Torok: hi Soro
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: Hello all
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and hi Soro and Rosie too!
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi Kas, didn’t notice you
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Arria
[10:06] Pip Torok: good evening Delia!
[10:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: hi
[10:06] Rosie Gray: Hi Gwyn
[10:06] Kaseido Quandry: lol, hi TOr
[10:07] Kaseido Quandry: have some more coffee!
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmmh coffee
[10:07] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, I might need some again
[10:07] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[10:07] muhammedyussif Wikinger: hi
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria, hello!
[10:08] Rose Springvale: hi arria… everyone. We are waiting for delia to administer the oath the keila and mikelo
[10:08] Tor Karlsvalt: I read recently five cups a day helps you live longer
[10:08] Lilith Ivory: omg I will become way old
[10:08] Delia Lake: ok. i think i’m enough rezzed
[10:08] Tor Karlsvalt thinks he is supposed to be quiet.
[10:09] Kaseido Quandry snickers
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You look fine to me, Delia… I can even recognise your favourite jewelry designer
[10:09] Delia Lake: We have two new members of the CDS RA, Keila Forager and Mikelo Serevi
[10:10] Delia Lake: as Dean of the SC, I am honored to welcome them to the government and to present to each the Affirmation of Office
[10:10] Delia Lake: if you would repeat please
[10:11] Delia Lake: I [name], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability,
[10:11] Delia Lake: that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[10:11] Delia Lake: Keila, then Mikelo please?
[10:11] Keila Forager: I , Keila Forager, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: I Mikelo Serevi, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[10:12] Delia Lake: Thank you both for serving
[10:12] Rose Springvale: yay! congrtulations! thanks Delia
[10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[10:12] Mikelo Serevi: Thank Delia
[10:12] Sonja Strom: Congratulations!
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: congratulations to both, and welcome!!!
[10:12] Arria Perreault: welcome to both
[10:12] Keila Forager: TY
[10:12] Sonja Strom: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[10:12] Pip Torok: Yes, congratulations to both of you
[10:12] Rose Springvale: hi Cindy :0
[10:12] Lilith Ivory: congratulations
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and hi to Cindy as well!)
[10:13] Rosie Gray applauds
[10:13] Rosie Gray: clap clap clap
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol waves to all
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: hi Cindy
[10:13] Keila Forager: Hi Cindy
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: sorry I’m late
[10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: Contrats Mikelo and Keila
[10:13] Rose Springvale: Okay, not to be pushy but we are ready for commission reports, and as Gwyneth has some time constraints, we’ll go directly to Elections
[10:13] Rose Springvale: Gwyn, take it away
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ha…
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, we have postponed some discussions for today, right?
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps since everybody had some time to reflect on that, we can see what we have left to discuss
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn searches for hernotes
[10:14] Rose Springvale: we have three items…
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:14] Rose Springvale: they are listed on the agenda, along with the language you proposed
[10:14] Rose Springvale: at the end
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you hehe
[10:15] Rose Springvale: Campaigning Act first
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. If I remember correctly,
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Delia made a comment on the Campaigning Act,
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: regarding the following sentence: “Campaigning ought to be supervised by the SC as they see fit”
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and (correctly, I believe) said that this is “too vague”.
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So how should we rephrase it?
[10:16] Pip Torok: suggest “will be” or “is to be”
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the idea was pretty much to give a SC a free hand — just attributing a responsibility which is not clear in the Const)
[10:17] Rose Springvale: “Final interpretation of the campaigning act shall be vested in the SC?
[10:17] Cindy Ecksol likes that a lot better
[10:17] Pip Torok: yes … better than mine imo
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, not only the act itself…. its application too
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: unless what you said, Rose, is legalese for what I meant
[10:17] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[10:17] Rose Springvale: interpretation of the applications
[10:17] Rose Springvale: application
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…. shall we hear Soro?
[10:18] Delia Lake raises her hand
[10:18] Rose Springvale: sure
[10:18] Soro Dagostino: Strike “Final”
[10:18] Rose Springvale: good
[10:18] Cindy Ecksol: I’d also like to make a coment on #1
[10:18] Cindy Ecksol: I’d move that we strike the word “officially”
[10:18] Rose Springvale: okay, lets finish this one?
[10:18] Cindy Ecksol: sorry…
[10:18] Cindy Ecksol: thought we were
[10:19] Pip Torok agrees with Cindy
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… ok, Soro’s suggestion would be ” interpretation of the application ofthe campaigning act shall be vested in the SC”
[10:20] Rose Springvale: so gwyn, the proposed amended language would be “Interpretation of the application of the Campaigning Act shall be vested in the SC.”
[10:20] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:20] Rose Springvale: gmta
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes hehe
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[10:20] Rose Springvale: that would replace 2
[10:20] Kaseido Quandry: that’s good
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: at least the first sentence (before the comma)
[10:20] Rose Springvale: i think the second sentence is kind of given…
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, redundant I guess
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m happy to move to amend 2 to become just: “Interpretation of the application of the Campaigning Act shall be vested in the SC.”
[10:21] Delia Lake raises her hand and asks to speak
[10:21] Rose Springvale: other thoughts?
[10:21] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Delia & Cindy next
[10:21] Rose Springvale: k go on Delia
[10:21] Delia Lake: re 2. and the SC
[10:21] Delia Lake: I did make a post on the Forum
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3026#p16278 right?
[10:22] Delia Lake: as it is, the SC is tasked with administering areas over which the SC has no control such as campaigning signs and use of group announcements
[10:23] Rose Springvale: and there are no repercussions for failure to comply
[10:23] Delia Lake: so, “as it sees fit” probably is not something that could be effectively implemented
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed, Rose. Hmm.
[10:24] Rose Springvale: perhaps the sc would get jurisdiction upon complaint by a citizen
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, Delia! Perhaps the wording is unfortunate. The meaning is mostly that if there are any questions about any issue during the campaigning, the SC is the branch to appeal for complaints.
[10:24] Rose Springvale: but should the remedy be disqualification from the election if determined to be non compliant?
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On point 5, it’s the Executive that is tasked with doing actual work.
[10:24] Delia Lake: well, Rose, the campaigns don’t run very long, a couple of weeks at the most. if there were complaints to deal with that would delay the election
[10:25] Rose Springvale: name recognistion is a well known method of campaigning, and bad press is still press
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think that is a good idea, rose
[10:25] Rose Springvale: what do you all propose?
[10:25] Rose Springvale: we need the law to have teeth
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: The SC would be too embroiled in politics then
[10:26] Keila Forager: I disagree Tor, there needs to be a consequence or we could all just do what ever we wanted..
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I speak only for myself here, but my point is that the SC, if they THINK that the campaigning is off limits, should be able to stop things… but perhaps only act upon actual complaints.
[10:26] Cindy Ecksol: /e agrees with Tor
[10:26] Rose Springvale: so how do they get that power Gwyn?
[10:26] Delia Lake: the SC is fine with administering the voting booths and the tallying of vote count and the census
[10:26] Delia Lake: but actual campaigning????
[10:26] Rose Springvale: SC is the only “unaffiliated group”…
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They oversee the application of this Campaigning Act and are allowed to act upon complaints…
[10:26] Rose Springvale: yes
[10:26] Rose Springvale: so… fines?
[10:27] Rose Springvale: limitation of voting for a period time in RA?
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: fines is great hehe
[10:27] Rose Springvale: public stocks?
[10:27] Rose Springvale:
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: public humiliation!!!
[10:27] Delia Lake: that would only work if it is very clear what is allowed and what is not allowed in campaigning
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: I like humiliation, or censure
[10:27] Rose Springvale: well, i think if someoen starts dropping a dozen notecards, they are clearly in violation
[10:27] Soro Dagostino raises hand
[10:27] Rose Springvale: and should lose notice power?
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re right, Delia, We just defined ONE rule really — #3
[10:27] Keila Forager: Some people can’t be humiliated..hehe
[10:28] Pip Torok: and if naming and shaming actually shames …..
[10:28] Mikelo Serevi: the possibility of getting disqualified from the election is more likely to work
[10:28] Rose Springvale: yes soro?
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no wait, #4 too)
[10:28] Delia Lake looks out the window at the stocks below
[10:28] Soro Dagostino: Double the tier of the transgressor.
[10:28] Keila Forager: I agree Mikelo.. but maybe 3 strikes and your out
[10:28] Rose Springvale: i’d reather do straight fines if its goign to be monetary
[10:28] Mikelo Serevi: so you can break the rules twice, great
[10:28] Kaseido Quandry: Keila, that’s good, and helps minimize the prospect of charges and counter-charges as an election tactic
[10:29] Rose Springvale: 3 violations in a two week period sort of defeats the limits
[10:29] Keila Forager: Some rules aren’t clear, as I found out this election..
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: of course won’t spamming work against a candidate?
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: theoretically…
[10:29] Tor Karlsvalt: let the voters decide.
[10:29] Keila Forager: Not necessarily Tor..
[10:29] Rose Springvale: see above re “name recognition”
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in practice, spam DOES work iRL.
[10:29] Rose Springvale: yep
[10:29] Keila Forager: exactly Rose, that is how I voted my first election (((
[10:30] Pip Torok: so “theres no such thing as bad publicity” won’t work here?
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: right keila but the second time in my first election I just voted my mind
[10:30] Rose Springvale: okay, we are at time. I think we need to send this back to committee
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:30] Kaseido Quandry: agreed -it’s not cookies yet
[10:30] Rose Springvale: to determine enforcement options
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn mumbles but complies…
[10:30] Rose Springvale: sorry gwyn. Do we need to vote to send it back?
[10:31] Arria Perreault: A question
[10:31] Keila Forager thinks fines are a good consequence and adds money to CDS
[10:31] Rose Springvale: go ahead Arria
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you’re right, there are a lot of possibilities. Note that so far we have almost zero laws dealing wih fines, we leave that to the SC to decide under common law…
[10:31] Arria Perreault: “Candidates would be allowed ONE group notice, with an attached notecard, announcing their candidacy and stating their platform; no further campaigning/political group notices are allowed.” Is it only menat for the CDS group?
[10:31] Arria Perreault: meant*
[10:31] Rose Springvale: all official CDS groups i think, right?
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: but fines might be just seen as a campaign cost
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Official channel, Arria. We don’t know yet (do we?) what channels have been defined as the official CDS groups
[10:32] Mikelo Serevi agrees with Tor
[10:32] Arria Perreault: it would help to have a list
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We will! From the Comms Committee!
[10:32] Arria Perreault: for example, any citizen who has a FB access can post in the FB page
[10:32] Arria Perreault: no need to get an access
[10:33] Rose Springvale: i think all the sim groups. Yes. lets send it back to the Committee to look this over. Also i don’t think the SC has authority to impose fines, maybe they can give us some thoughts on what they need and want?
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: is there actually a question about which groups qualify? And this is clearly addressed to sim groups.
[10:33] Arria Perreault: the law is not clear
[10:33] Rose Springvale: clearly a lot of questions open. lets move on
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Arria. And who knows, next year LL might add new communication features and such. The idea is that this law won’t need to change; we will just have a list of “official CDS channels” listed on the Comms Act or so.
[10:33] Rose Springvale: Gwyn will call another meeting i’m sure
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins — I’m free tomorrow hehe
[10:33] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:33] Arria Perreault: yes, I am fine with a list
[10:34] Rose Springvale: Chancellor Election Act?
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: wb cindy
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In any case, Arria, THIS law will NOT list ALL channels, or it will just duplicate what’s on the Comms Act (when approved)
[10:34] Cindy Ecksol: sorry, bad crash — what did I miss?
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Campaigning Act moved back to committee
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: sending elections back to committee
[10:35] Arria Perreault: maybe a last comment
[10:35] Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok!
[10:35] Rose Springvale: needs more work … campaigning. Can it go to the committee so we can keep this meeting going?
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that, Rose
[10:35] Rose Springvale: okay, go on Gwyn
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: can we listen to Arria’s comment first, if it’s short?…
[10:36] Rose Springvale: smile
[10:36] Arria Perreault: we should write “Each candidate are allowed” instead of “Each candidate should be allowed”. Same for the next sentence. It looks a bit optionnal with “should”
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:36] Rose Springvale: thanks arria. The committee will consider that i’m sure
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… ok, you’re right. Sorry about my messy grammar!
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, Chancellor Act
[10:36] Arria Perreault:
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: from the discussions on the forums…
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we have at least 2 things to decide.
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One is technical, pointed out by Jamie, which is clarifying if someone was Chancellor for 12 months can be RA on the imemdiately following term
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no, 3
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the other 2 points come from Pat…
[10:38] Rose Springvale: gwyn, this is the first reading, perhaps you can start at the beginning ?
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooooh
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: SORRY
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you’re so right haha
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My apologies
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, some background first then.
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You know that the RA has slowly moved from being paranoid to have “a single person with all power” (in the past, we had NO executive),
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to understand that some things are really best served with someone that can ACT.
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus the Executive.
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now… when this branch was created,
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the RA was faction.-based
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: people voted for ideas, not people
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (weird as it might sound )
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we felt that we should follow a more Parliamentarian model.
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Factions would not only suggest a list of candidates,
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but also a Chancellor
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the idea being that the winning faction would also pick their Chancellor
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the RA would be very closely aligned with the Chancellor
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: having a common plan so to speak
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Chancellor would execute a plan that would have been ideologically approved by a majority of citizens that put a faction into power.
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now…
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have abolished faction-voting,
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the notion that we vote for manifests and a formal group of people
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus, it makes no sense at all,
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that the RA becomes somehow a “collegial electorate” that picks a Chancellor,
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since it actually means that X different people, with different dieas from the citizens that elected them, would just pick one Chancellor — not related to actual voter’s preferences.
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… the committee worked on an alternative system,
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: where citizens preferences are not only made for RA members,
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but also for the Chancellor they wish to have.
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Whew. Sorry for the long rant. The idea is that teh Chancellor ought now to be picked by ALL citizens,
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: not just a small elite …
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A further suggestion also got consensus…
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One term is really too short for a good Chancellor
[10:43] Mikelo Serevi: Although, couldn’t it be said that the RA does reflect citizen preferences, even without factions?
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not really, Mikelo, because the # of votes is not tied to actual seats.
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Sol
[10:44] Solomon Mosely: hello
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g someone might have 90% of all votes in teh CDS but just get one seat at the RA and NOT have 90% of the votes for Chancellor, but just one.
[10:45] Solomon Mosely accepted your inventory offer.
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is really no direct way to reflect citizens’ preferences in the Chancellor election IF it is just done inside the RA.
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Factionless models have *some* disadvantages….
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway!
[10:45] Rose Springvale: do you want to discuss the idea first, then go to the details?
[10:45] Arria Perreault: (factions were not abolished …)
[10:46] Arria Perreault: I have some questions/remarks
[10:46] Rose Springvale: lets let gwyn finish first… then we’ll open for discussion
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure, I think that in general this is the idea. Then we can go to the details.
[10:46] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:46] Rose Springvale: Arria, go ahead
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’m fine in discussing things in general now.
[10:46] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:47] Arria Perreault: I give my 3 rmearks/questions together
[10:48] Arria Perreault: 1. even the Chancellor can be elected by citizen, he/she can still be removed by the RA with a 2/3 majority. Is it so?
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes!
[10:48] Arria Perreault: 2. Are there any ideas to avoid people who would work in tandem ? Can a Chancellor be candidiate two years later?
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2a. I don’t understand; 2b. yes
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: no Gwyw, I htink she is saying that two ppl could agree to trade the position
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[10:50] Rose Springvale: did you want to follow up Arria?
[10:50] Arria Perreault: 3. A more general remark about people who are candidates. This remard could also concern RA candidates. Can someone run for a governmental position if he/she have such a position in an other SL community
[10:50] Arria Perreault: 2b: Tor is correct
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha GOOD question!
[10:50] Pip Torok: or perhaps a “Mom and Pop” scheme
[10:51] Rose Springvale: popular vote would make tht only work if the people agreed
[10:51] Arria Perreault: there are some example in rl
[10:51] Mikelo Serevi: good points, Arria
[10:51] Arria Perreault: I> am done with my questions
[10:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: very,very good points, although Rose has a point too
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: right pip
[10:52] Mikelo Serevi: Well, there are ways to manipulate the public as well, like the name recognition we spoke of
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, the first question is easily answered… on 1, yes, the RA is still able to remove the Chancellor at any time with a 2/3 vote, just as before.
[10:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND the vetoes are still in place too! (remember: the Chancellor can veto ANY law passed by the RA!)
[10:52] Kaseido Quandry: either you trust the democratic electorate, or you don’t
[10:53] Mikelo Serevi: true Kas
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree Kas
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: wait…does that mean that the Chancellor can veto his/her own removal?
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Except that one, Cindy hehe
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: haha, Cindy,
[10:53] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[10:53] Kaseido Quandry: good one!
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: never thought of that
[10:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think this is a rare case where we actually have been thorough on the egislation!
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *legislation
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On point 2a, well… I think that it’s certainly possible for 2 or more people to “trade places”, but that would naturally mean that a majority of citziens would have to agree with that “arrangement”…. since they would still be eelcted, friends or no friends
[10:54] Tor Karlsvalt: just call it King then
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: no way, gwyn….any legislation will always have unexpected side effects
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I’m sure you’re right Cindy hehe — but yes, originally that was figured out and is in teh legislation, and this proposal doesn’t change it)
[10:55] Rose Springvale: yes, and that’s kind of what happened with the faction system
[10:55] Cindy Ecksol:
[10:55] Rose Springvale: friends were able to succeed one another so long as the faction was reelected, yes?
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: more nails on the coffin, Rose?
[10:55] Rose Springvale: no nails gwy
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[10:56] Tor Karlsvalt: might need a wooden stake too
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: remember, factions were elected for ideas, not for who actually were part of it… anyway, that discussion is one year old, dead, biroed, and smelly
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *buried even
[10:56] Rose Springvale: (ideally)
[10:56] Mikelo Serevi: well, it was still people
[10:56] Rose Springvale: what is that third issue?
[10:56] Keila Forager: read my mind Rose
[10:56] Mikelo Serevi: the factions just allowed us to see where they stood, like in RL
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: people embodying ideas
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, ok, no more faction discussion please… lol
[10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m falling into this trap!
[10:57] Rose Springvale: uh huh, and i’m watching the clock
[10:57] Rose Springvale: i’ll just throw out the CDS has no jurisdiction over what anyone does outside CDS
[10:58] Arria Perreault: Rose, SL is a world
[10:58] Rose Springvale: yes, but CDS is one project
[10:58] Arria Perreault: can someone be in a parliament of 2 countries
[10:58] Mikelo Serevi: Ijust mean, imagine is someone tried to abolish RL political parties
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh
[10:58] Mikelo Serevi: if
[10:58] Pip Torok: yes … in england and scotland
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh! nice one, Pip!
[10:59] Arria Perreault: weused ask RA member to declare their interests
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn’t know that!
[10:59] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Arria, and to the best of my knowledge, that is still part of the legislation I think
[10:59] Arria Perreault: well, they both belong to the same entity
[10:59] Delia Lake thinks this analogy doesn’t hold water as there is not the same kind of power in sl as there is in rl
[10:59] Rose Springvale: nor geographic limitations.
[10:59] Kaseido Quandry: nor is SL based on sovereign nations
[11:00] Mikelo Serevi: power is power
[11:00] Soro Dagostino: Its whatever LL allows that day.
[11:00] Kaseido Quandry: what’s the actual issue here?
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, my personal problem with limiting how candidates are selected based on their interests on other groups, organisations, communities etc. is that it’s impossible to figure out alts…
[11:00] Rose Springvale: but it doesn’t ahve anything to do with CDS…
[11:00] Arria Perreault: I think the Chancellor should at least declare his/her interests
[11:00] Kaseido Quandry: we can’t make people declare they’re not too busy to do the job
[11:01] Rose Springvale: alts or conflicts. We do have a group who are supposed to be looking at conflicts, i suggest we leave that to them to discuss?
[11:01] Delia Lake: why should we care? what would be the implications?
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kas, I think that the main issue is that a Chancellor that acts as an agent for a different community might just be pushing people over. Imagine if Desmond gets an alt, joins the CDS, and secretely tries to get elected, so we all change the theme here to steampunk…
[11:01] Rose Springvale: elected democracy means … elected
[11:01] Kaseido Quandry: I think we have sufficient checks and balances, gods know
[11:01] Arria Perreault: yes, the Chancellor is our agent to deal with other communities
[11:02] Arria Perreault: we do have “foreign affairs”
[11:02] Keila Forager: I think if someone is elected to do a “job ” for CDS, then regardless of other interests, CDS should be a priority. If it can’t be, then they shouldn’t run for office..
[11:02] Solomon Mosely: well then if the people here want steampunk, then who cares?
[11:02] Delia Lake: and the Chancellor can me impeached if required
[11:02] Rose Springvale: so are we going to eliminate gwyn for her relationship to Beta, Sonja for Arosa, Sudane for SLNE?
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree with Kas, and if the ppl wanted that, how would we agrue againt a theme change anyway?
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: well, rememerb….the RA still will have the ability to eject a chancellor if he/she starts running off in a direction the community doesn’t like
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only thing I can say, Arria, is that if a certain Chancellor is seen as acting contrary to the interests of the CDS, the RA can vote them out, if their actions are blatantly obvious…
[11:02] Pip Torok: in effect the Chancellor will be someone we all know the track record of …
[11:02] Arria Perreault: Keila, we do expect this from people. The law is here to make sure it is the case
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Cindy… exactly…. we DID argue this before…. over 2 years ago
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: yep!
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: was it three? I remember you bringing up the exact poiint, Cindy!
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: unlikely and alt will gain so much support for the position too.
[11:03] Arria Perreault: why to be so strict with notecards in campaigning and not with conflicts of interest?
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or perhaps it’s just déja vu lol
[11:03] Solomon Mosely: you’re not suggewsting that just one or two people could sway and manipulate the will of the CDS people?
[11:03] Rose Springvale: folks
[11:03] Rose Springvale: the issue here is direct election of chancellor
[11:03] Mikelo Serevi: So, perhaps contrast would help, what does this new law change?
[11:03] Tor Karlsvalt: I am for it.
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok Mikelo. Good approach indeed.
[11:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
[11:03] Rose Springvale: not ethics, conflicts etc. all those arguments apply now
[11:04] Rose Springvale: yes, thanks
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The biggest change: instead of having RA members electing the Chancellor, all the CDS citizens vote for their Chancellor.
[11:04] Mikelo Serevi: well, besides the obvious direct election
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[11:04] Arria Perreault: I think that the universal suffrage of the Chancellor will give extra power to this position
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes, and the ppl are the ultimate check on the RA
[11:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think it is better if RA elects chansellor
[11:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The second change: Chancellors have 12-month-terms, and then cannot get reelected (they’d have to wait a year)
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: this is good
[11:04] Arria Perreault: I am not against this. I would like to balance this power a bit
[11:04] Pip Torok: certainly more legitimacy, imho
[11:04] Cindy Ecksol: how would you balance it more Arria?
[11:05] Mikelo Serevi: I’ve considered this, Arria
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The rest of the changes are procedurl, e.g. aligning the start of term and so forth
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *procedural
[11:05] Delia Lake: how so, Arria? the Chancellor/Exec is still regulated by the Consistution and the Code of Laws
[11:05] Rose Springvale: remember we will only have 5 or 7 individuals in the next RA, given current population numbers
[11:05] Mikelo Serevi: Well, for example, what is the current term limit for chancellor?
[11:05] Mikelo Serevi: Is there one?
[11:05] Rose Springvale: so we are placing this decision in the hands of 4 people
[11:05] Arria Perreault: I totally agree with the 12 months. A possible effect could be to have a chancellor who has to work with a RA with different opinion
[11:05] Rose Springvale: no limits now
[11:05] Keila Forager: My only question about terms is, what if there is no one to run for chancellor?
[11:05] Pip Torok: atm there isnt one, Mikelo
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: This would also make it unlikely that a member of RA would stand for elecetion to chancellor
[11:05] Arria Perreault: it’s proportional to our size
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Tor, good point!
[11:06] Rose Springvale: good question Keila, but we’ve not had that issue yet
[11:06] Arria Perreault: Tor made a good remark
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Keila, GOOD question!
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm! Tricky!
[11:06] Arria Perreault: we should solve this point. It happened several times
[11:06] Keila Forager: Just looking ahead..LOL
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’ll randomly pick a Chancellor out of all citizens!
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[11:07] Pip Torok: well then the present chancellor would carry on!
[11:07] Rose Springvale: given the way the act is written, it would be a choice, run for chancellor or RA
[11:07] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think the RA will be more rational and the CDS voters more emotional
[11:07] Rose Springvale: and RA continues to be elected in 6 month intervals
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Rose
[11:07] Rose Springvale thinks RA gets emotional
[11:07] Tor Karlsvalt: term limits seem contrary to the old chancellor carring on
[11:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well perhaps, muhammed, the question is if it’s more fair for all the citizens?
[11:07] Keila Forager: That would have to be writtien in Pip..
[11:07] muhammedyussif Wikinger:
[11:08] Pip Torok: I agree, Keila
[11:08] Cindy Ecksol thinks term limits are a good thing….
[11:08] Rose Springvale: i think we should decide if we want direct election, then work on the term etc
[11:08] Mikelo Serevi: Well, the RA is in the know, while a population can sometimes be led by the nose
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Rose’s suggestion.
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: lets vote on that then,
[11:08] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[11:08] Rose Springvale: if we dont’ want direct election, we’ll waste a lot of time debating things that won’t matter
[11:08] Keila Forager: That’s another issue Mikelo,
[11:08] Keila Forager: The population should be in the know
[11:08] Mikelo Serevi: I think we should consider the whole law, rather than try to push parts through
[11:08] Arria Perreault: it’s a constitutional change
[11:09] Rose Springvale: Mikelo, i also think the Exec should be accountable to the people he/she serves, not the RA specifically
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: Mikelo, the counter to that is that the RA can sometimes be very cliquish and do things that the community doesn’t really want
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point. So perhaps we can have a motion to vote if we want direct Chancellor elections or not, and then discuss the specifics? (there are a few other points that were raised by jamie & Pat)
[11:09] Keila Forager: That’s an understatement Cindy
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Keila
[11:09] Cindy Ecksol: including choosing an exec who does not represent the desires of the community
[11:09] Rose Springvale: lots of points on those specifics.
[11:09] Arria Perreault: I think the article should be more than a draft
[11:09] Lilith Ivory nods
[11:09] Mikelo Serevi: Well the exec is about efficiency now, and I think Arria is right that it might be more about power if directly elected
[11:09] Tor Karlsvalt: To be trueling independant, the Chancellor is more independant and legitamate with direct election
[11:09] Rose Springvale: we can entertain a motion Gwyn, doesn’t have to be the one on the card
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok—- motion to vote if we want direct Chancellor elections.
[11:10] Keila Forager: second
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[11:10] Rose Springvale: okay!
[11:10] Arria Perreault: the chancellor elected by citizen could remove any RA law
[11:10] Rose Springvale: discussion on this motion
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ironically, this motion needs a 2/3 majority because it implies a Const. change
[11:10] Soro Dagostino: By all, RL calls
[11:10] Keila Forager: chancellor can do that now Arria
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: call the question
[11:10] Rose Springvale: bye Soro
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: wait….there is no “bill” here….
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (see you, Keila!)
[11:10] Rose Springvale: okay
[11:10] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, this is a constituttional change
[11:10] Rose Springvale: Question has been called
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: nor constitutional change per se
[11:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Arria!
[11:10] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think we should railroad this, it’s a big change
[11:10] Arria Perreault: do you have a text to propose after our discussion
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: and ifthere is, we should NOT be voting now…..
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: no text….
[11:10] Solomon Mosely: also, we havent talked about the election process for chancellor, have we? with campaign standards?
[11:10] Kaseido Quandry: this has been in discussion for months
[11:10] Cindy Ecksol: exactly….
[11:11] Rose Springvale: All in favor of direct election of the chancellor, signify by saying aye
[11:11] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:11] Rose Springvale: motion called folks
[11:11] Cindy Ecksol: can we do this vote as a “preference poll” an dthen send back to committee for text?
[11:11] Solomon Mosely: that would help create a balancer to allow the people to get the RA’s poersepective in debates, etc…
[11:11] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:11] Rose Springvale: motion seconded, and called, sorry
[11:11] Solomon Mosely: AYE
[11:11] Arria Perreault: give us the text for the constitution
[11:11] Keila Forager: aye
[11:11] Pip Torok: aye
[11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: motions can be single-line phrases so, aye
[11:11] Cindy Ecksol: abstain on the grounds that I cannot vote for a motion that changes the constitution and has no text
[11:11] muhammedyussif Wikinger: nay
[11:11] Mikelo Serevi: nay, I don’t like how this is being done
[11:12] Arria Perreault: abstains (for the same reason than Cindy)
[11:12] Tor Karlsvalt: aue
[11:12] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:12] Mikelo Serevi: We neeed to vote on a whole law, not force votes to squeeze parts through
[11:12] Cindy Ecksol: nor did we have discussion on the motion….
[11:12] Rose Springvale: has everyone voted?
[11:12] Rose Springvale: guys, we have procedure, if you don’t like the motion, vote against it.
[11:12] Tor Karlsvalt: we will still have to vote on the final amendment anyway.
[11:13] Mikelo Serevi: I motion we roll back the previos vote
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: that’s right….we have procedure!
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: you called for the vote before calling for discussion on the motion!
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm.
[11:13] Mikelo Serevi: until we can complete discussion
[11:13] Rose Springvale: the vote was not called by me
[11:13] Arria Perreault: I don’t think we can vote a constitutional change without a text. I will go to ask the SC
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “blame it on me”
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn loves to quote Philip Linden
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: you are the only one who has th epower to call the vote rose
[11:13] Tor Karlsvalt: i called it
[11:13] Cindy Ecksol: if soeone else called it, it is not valid.
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: unless you say so
[11:14] Arria Perreault: right
[11:14] Rose Springvale: we are now at 7 in favor
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[11:14] Mikelo Serevi: well, I think if a motion is seconded, rose has to call a vote
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: question for the LRA
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: no….she has to call for DISCUSSION first!
[11:14] Kaseido Quandry: this has been on the agenda for 2 RA meetings, 3 committee meetings, and has seen an active discussion on the forum. And the concept is not a complicated one.
[11:14] Tor Karlsvalt: won’t we have to vote on the final amendment?
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: THEN a vote when we close discussion
[11:14] Arria Perreault: or to open the discussion
[11:14] Mikelo Serevi: I have to question what the agenda for this law is, who stands to benefit?
[11:14] Cindy Ecksol: this was a brand-new, off the cuff motion to change the constitution, not a previously discussed detailed bill!
[11:14] Mikelo Serevi: the people pushing the law through perchance?
[11:15] Arria Perreault: Kas, we don’t have a text to vote wit all details
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: we don’t even have citations on which articles will change and other things that might be affected.
[11:15] Arria Perreault: it’s not serious for the RA
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: i disagree, it has been discussed for some time
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: c’mon guys, let’s be real here….
[11:15] Rose Springvale: order please
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: which “it” Tor?
[11:15] Rose Springvale: we had a motion
[11:15] Rose Springvale: we had a second
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… it’s not unusual to call for a general vote and only go into specifics later…
[11:15] Rose Springvale: we had a call of the question
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol: yes….and then we did NOT have discussion on THAT motion!
[11:15] Rose Springvale: no one is trying to push anything
[11:15] Arria Perreault: Tor, the legislative work need details
[11:15] Rose Springvale: call of the question means NO discussion
[11:15] Rose Springvale: our vote here now
[11:15] Mikelo Serevi: Fine, so let’s vote for whole laws with text then
[11:15] Tor Karlsvalt: OK we were breaking this down by sections
[11:16] Kaseido Quandry: there’s no point doing detailed work if the basic concept doesn’t have 2/3 support
[11:16] Arria Perreault: I suggest our vote was a mandate to the committee to work in this direction
[11:16] Rose Springvale: 8-2-2 i think?
[11:16] Tor Karlsvalt: the only issue was if we should have direct election in the amendment to the const.
[11:16] Cindy Ecksol for once agrees with Arria
[11:16] Arria Perreault: not a constitutional change
[11:16] Pip Torok agrees with Arria
[11:16] Arria Perreault:
[11:16] Cindy Ecksol: TOr, that “issue” requires constitutional change….
[11:16] Rose Springvale: which implies that the RA as a whole supports direct election, but wants to play with the language
[11:16] Rose Springvale: please
[11:16] Rose Springvale: order
[11:16] Cindy Ecksol: if it’s a PREFERENCE vote, that’s one thing…and I’d be voting in favor
[11:16] Rose Springvale: 8 is not 2/3 of 13
[11:16] Cindy Ecksol: but I will NOT vote in favor of a constitutional change that has no wording!
[11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, neither will I!
[11:17] Rose Springvale: we need 9 to pass so we can either go back to discussion or continue to grandstand
[11:17] Mikelo Serevi: exactly, cindy
[11:17] Cindy Ecksol: let’s go back to discussion…and do it properly next time.
[11:17] Tor Karlsvalt: Rose, would we still have a vote on the entire amendment to the const.
[11:17] Rose Springvale: guys, all i did was procedureal! gwyn made the motion
[11:17] Rose Springvale: So
[11:17] Rose Springvale: gwyn
[11:18] Pip Torok: if only 8 of 13 have voted for, then this is all theory! …..
[11:18] Rose Springvale: do you want to resume discussion?
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, because the point is, if we can’t even get a supermajority to agree with direct Chancellor elections, we don’t even need to discuss it further.
[11:18] Rose Springvale: agrees.
[11:18] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, did you mean to change the constitutuion today without text?
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: exactly!
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: why waste time then?
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria, lol
[11:18] Rose Springvale: well, we are at time
[11:18] Arria Perreault: or did you ask for a mandate fpr your commission?
[11:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the proposed text is in the notecard.
[11:18] Rose Springvale: so we can roll this over to thursday
[11:18] Kaseido Quandry: “Art II, Section 5 – Deleted and replaced with:
1. The Chancellor of the CDS shall be elected by universal suffrage of all citizens from among any CDS citizen who shall make application to the RA.”
[11:19] Arria Perreault: we did not discuss any detail
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt: Well this can be an issue for the next RA elections perhaps.
[11:19] Rose Springvale: we will meet at noon on thursday to continue the electyiral commission
[11:19] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn
[11:19] Arria Perreault: there was a lot of questions/remarks and the text was not cahnged
[11:19] Rose Springvale: moving on now
[11:19] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[11:19] Rose Springvale: yes?
[11:19] Arria Perreault: doesnt it mean that committee are making our job?
[11:19] Cindy Ecksol: as archivist, exactly how am I supposed to record this vote???
[11:19] Cindy Ecksol: is it a “law”?
[11:19] Cindy Ecksol: and if so, what is the text?
[11:20] Rose Springvale: you can pull it from the transcript.
[11:20] Rose Springvale: We are moving on to commission reports
[11:20] Cindy Ecksol: my point: there IS NO TEXT!
[11:20] Cindy Ecksol: we somehow changed the constitution…but no one knows how!
[11:20] Mikelo Serevi: I did motion to disregard the vote
[11:20] Cindy Ecksol: OR…this vote was “advisory”
[11:20] Rose Springvale: elections commission will continue on thursday. there was a motion, and it did not pass
[11:20] Rose Springvale: neither
[11:21] Rose Springvale: it was of constitutional relevance and did not pass
[11:21] Rose Springvale: that’s all on that
[11:21] Pip Torok: if 6 voted of 13 we havent changes anything Cindy
[11:21] Cindy Ecksol: ok….fine
[11:21] Rose Springvale: Commerce commission?
[11:21] Cindy Ecksol: next…
[11:21] Pip Torok: (6=8)
[11:21] Rose Springvale: Lilith do you have a report?
[11:21] Lilith Ivory smiles
[11:21] Cindy Ecksol: I thought Gwyn’s vote took us over the top
[11:21] Rose Springvale: no
[11:21] Arria Perreault: I suggest we clarify our rules of procesures about constitutional changes
[11:21] Lilith Ivory: not much to say since the last meeting
[11:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
[11:22] Rose Springvale: Lilith has the floor now
[11:22] Lilith Ivory: my RL was quite troublesome lately so I had no time to figure out a proper time for a next meeting
[11:22] Lilith Ivory: wher we can discus how to bring all the good idea we collected into action
[11:22] Lilith Ivory:
[11:23] Rose Springvale: thank you lilith, when you figure it out, please post and announce?
[11:23] Lilith Ivory: sorry I can´t say more at the moment
[11:23] Lilith Ivory: I will for sure
[11:23] Rose Springvale: Citizenship commission, Arria?
[11:23] Arria Perreault: we had a good meeting on 10 August.
[11:24] Arria Perreault: Calli and I, we will work soon on a draft that the committee can discuss.
[11:24] Arria Perreault: As soon as the draft is ready, I will call the meeting
[11:24] Rose Springvale: thank you.
[11:24] Rose Springvale: Finance, Tor?
[11:24] Tor Karlsvalt: huh yeah
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: Alsas I have not had any meetings
[11:25] Arria Perreault: I have a question for Tor
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: however I can report that sudane has done great work
[11:25] Tor Karlsvalt: yes arria
[11:25] Arria Perreault: I would like we look the following case :
[11:27] Arria Perreault: when someone sell a land in the middle of a month and that the fees was already paid, would it possible to get the fees back for the half of the month and to charge the next owner
[11:27] Arria Perreault: ?
[11:27] Rose Springvale grimaces. Sudane will say no way
[11:27] Tor Karlsvalt: Thanks Arria. we can make that part of adgenda for the next meeting
[11:27] Kaseido Quandry: really?!
[11:27] Arria Perreault: thank you
[11:27] Keila Forager: Half the places I’ve lived in , in SL, say no way..lol
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: at least we will be able to get public opinoino on that question
[11:28] Rose Springvale: go on please Tor
[11:28] Arria Perreault: I don’t mean technically.
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: but let me return to the new tier policy
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonja has just posted the following to the forum at:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3060
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Pip Torok wd be interested in RL analagous precedence
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: 1. Tier is due in CDS on the 7th day of each month.
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: For the convenience of the parties, tier payment boxes will be open for tier payment on the 28th of the prior month (10 days prior to due date).
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: Tier is delinquent and boxes close for payment on the 12th day of the month (five days after due date). You must pay your tier to your box during this time.
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt: 2. On the 13th of the month, parcels which remain unpaid will be repossessed.
[11:28] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: 3. On the 21st of the month, (two weeks after the due date) repossessed parcels will be cleared and resold.
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: 4. If you know that you will be unable to be in world while the boxes are open, please contact the treasurer by notecard, email or im to arrange for prepayment, so that you don’t lose your property.
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: These new policies will become effective on September 1. Please be aware that as the law of the land they will be enforced.
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I will also create a notecard giver to place at the tier box loclocations that will provide this info in-world.
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt:
[11:29] Kaseido Quandry: nicely done
[11:29] Tor Karlsvalt: Sonja allowed me the honor of inserting this in the record.
[11:29] Rose Springvale: Thank you!
[11:29] Arria Perreault: can you give us the notecard?
[11:30] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[11:30] Rose Springvale: Anything else to report Tor?
[11:31] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:31] Mikelo Serevi: wb gwyn
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt gave you New Tier Policy Effective Sept 1 2010.
[11:31] Tor Karlsvalt: no
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn grumbles about her ISP
[11:31] Rose Springvale: thanks… if you want, we can put that in the box on the table
[11:32] Rose Springvale: okay, thank you! let us know when you call more meetings
[11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: Yes pls put it in the box
[11:32] Rose Springvale: but this is great work, thanks to the Exec, the Tresurer and the committee
[11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: um probably in the next few weeks
[11:32] Rose Springvale: Kas, Comms?
[11:32] Tor Karlsvalt: I hould have one before the fest
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices she missed all the fun lol
[11:32] Kaseido Quandry: The Chancellor’s failure to implement the Communiations Act continues. Nothing the RA can do till that’s resolved.
[11:33] Rose Springvale: we’ll hear from the chancellor next, perhaps there will be a report on tht
[11:33] Rose Springvale: Thanks.
[11:33] Mikelo Serevi: What is it that needs to be done?
[11:33] Kaseido Quandry nods
[11:33] Kaseido Quandry: Implement the changes to notice access, primarily
[11:33] Rose Springvale: Sonja, Chancellors report next, floor is yours
[11:33] Sonja Strom: Thank you Rose
[11:34] Sonja Strom: Since the last Chancellors Report,
[11:35] Sonja Strom: Here in the CDS we have had a series of very fun events,
[11:35] Sonja Strom: including the Inaugural Ball,
[11:35] Sonja Strom: a Beach Party,
[11:35] Sonja Strom: and ongoing concerts in Locus Amoenus, weekly on Tuesdays.
[11:36] Sonja Strom: We are now organizing for Oktoberfest in Second Life, for from Sept. 18th to Oct. 4th.
[11:36] Sonja Strom: If you would like to help with events,
[11:36] Sonja Strom: please let Anna Toussaint or I know.
[11:36] Sonja Strom: As discussed here in the RA,
[11:37] Sonja Strom: the community has agreed it would be good to reparcel Alpine Meadow plot AH2
[11:37] Sonja Strom: into four smaller parcels,
[11:37] Sonja Strom: one for the prims and three for buildings.
[11:37] Sonja Strom: This issue has been brought to the New Guild,
[11:38] Sonja Strom: and discussed there at a preliminary level.
[11:38] Sonja Strom: Now it is an active item on the Guild agenda.
[11:39] Sonja Strom: Most likely over the course of the next few weeks,
[2010/08/21 11:39] Sonja Strom: the best way to do this reparcelling will be decided upon
[2010/08/21 11:39] Sonja Strom: and completed.
[2010/08/21 11:40] Sonja Strom: Thank you all very much for all of your work on new policies regarding nonpayment of tier
[2010/08/21 11:40] Sonja Strom: and the Land Sales Reclamation Act.
[2010/08/21 11:42] Sonja Strom: Especially we are thankful for the diligent and tireless work of Tor Karlsvalt,
[2010/08/21 11:42] Sonja Strom: who really is the one who kept this moving forward up to its completion.
[2010/08/21 11:42] Tor Karlsvalt:
[2010/08/21 11:43] Sonja Strom: Now agreement has been reached on them, and we are announcing the new policies today.
[2010/08/21 11:43] Rose Springvale: (applauds ALL our commission chairs.)
[2010/08/21 11:43] Sonja Strom applauds them all as well.
[2010/08/21 11:44] Sonja Strom: The Executive Branch has posted these new policies in the Forum, here:
[2010/08/21 11:44] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3060
[2010/08/21 11:44] Sonja Strom: as noted by Tor earlier when he spoke about this issue.
[2010/08/21 11:45] Sonja Strom: Once again, thanks to all of you for your work on this difficult issue,
[2010/08/21 11:45] Al Andalus Hoods Lot 28tier box: Al Andalus Hoods Lot 28 tier box @ Al Andalus Alhambra 211, 76, 51 – Joaquin Gustav paid L$2282. They now have 29 days, 23 hours, 51 minutes and 23 seconds remaining on their contract.
[2010/08/21 11:45] Sonja Strom: and your patience in getting it worked out.
[2010/08/21 11:46] Sonja Strom: The new policies are MUCH better than the old ones,
[2010/08/21 11:46] Sonja Strom: and will work much better from here,
[2010/08/21 11:46] Sonja Strom: that is,
[2010/08/21 11:47] Sonja Strom: after they come into effect on the 1st of September,
[2010/08/21 11:47] Sonja Strom: around ten days from today.
[2010/08/21 11:48] Sonja Strom: The PIO Anna Toussaint and I are working on written descriptions of the roles of the Excecutive communications team,
[2010/08/21 11:48] Sonja Strom: and how public noticifications should be made.
[2010/08/21 11:49] Sonja Strom: There is already an overall description posted on the CDS website, or web portal,
[2010/08/21 11:49] Sonja Strom: here: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=executive
[2010/08/21 11:50] Sonja Strom: Anna is assembling a PIO team, and has found some assistance.
[2010/08/21 11:50] Sonja Strom: As I have always said before,
[2010/08/21 11:50] Sonja Strom: and I will say it here once again,
[2010/08/21 11:51] Sonja Strom: for any public information question at all anyone may contact either Anna as PIO or I as Chancellor,
[2010/08/21 11:51] Sonja Strom: and we will be happy to help.
[2010/08/21 11:51] Rose Springvale: sonja, i know there are some questiosn, so can you wrap up so RA members can ask them please?
[2010/08/21 11:51] Kaseido Quandry: The RA has been awaiting reply to contact since July 29.
[2010/08/21 11:52] Sonja Strom: shall I stop giving the Report?
[2010/08/21 11:52] Rose Springvale: well, you have run out of time, I think lets have questions, and you can post whatever else you have
[2010/08/21 11:52] Rose Springvale: in the Exec thread perhaps
[2010/08/21 11:52] Sonja Strom: The schedule says I have 15 minutes.
[2010/08/21 11:53] Kaseido Quandry: You’ve had the floor from 11;33 to 11;52
[2010/08/21 11:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: should we vote to extend the RA meeting?
[2010/08/21 11:53] Sonja Strom: Has it been so long?
[2010/08/21 11:53] Rose Springvale: i’m on a tight schedule today so lets just proceed
[2010/08/21 11:53] Rose Springvale: yes, you have
[2010/08/21 11:53] Arria Perreault: I think we should listen what the Chancellor has to say
[2010/08/21 11:54] Arria Perreault: we have only one report a month
[2010/08/21 11:54] Sonja Strom: I can stop if you prefer.
[2010/08/21 11:54] Rose Springvale: fine, we will just limit concerns
[2010/08/21 11:54] Arria Perreault: 15 min a month …
[2010/08/21 11:54] Keila Forager: Copy and paste whole paragraphs sonja
[2010/08/21 11:54] Rose Springvale: go on, and yes, copy paste workes better
[2010/08/21 11:54] Sonja Strom: I am here for you…
[2010/08/21 11:54] Kaseido Quandry: yes, please, thank you
[2010/08/21 11:54] Sonja Strom: at your request.
[2010/08/21 11:54] Kaseido Quandry: I beleive we asked you to do that last time as well
[2010/08/21 11:54] Rose Springvale: actually, the law required a monthly report
[2010/08/21 11:55] Rose Springvale: just finish please
[2010/08/21 11:55] Sonja Strom: And I am giving a monthly report, or trying to
[2010/08/21 11:55] Sonja Strom: I will type faster
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: What I was going to say next is,
[2010/08/21 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Speaking only for myself, I’d prefer to hear everything even if it takes longer…
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: Anna is also working on standardizing and updating the inworld Information Kiosks.
[2010/08/21 11:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry Sonja!)
[2010/08/21 11:56] Mikelo Serevi: Me too gwyn
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: np
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: There is also now an RA Archivist, Cindy Ecksol.
[2010/08/21 11:56] Sonja Strom: The creator of the web portal Alexicon has given access for Cindy to access the CDS web portal,
[2010/08/21 11:57] Sonja Strom: but unfortunately her password appears not to work.
[2010/08/21 11:57] Sonja Strom: We are working on getting this straightened for her.
[2010/08/21 11:57] Sonja Strom: Now all Members of the RA have been given access to the CDS Google Calendar,
[2010/08/21 11:57] Sonja Strom: and all CDS citizens have been given the ability to post notices to the CDS group.
[2010/08/21 11:58] Sonja Strom: Since some changes came with the choice of Al Andalus to leave the CDS,
[2010/08/21 11:58] Cindy Ecksol notes that she still doe snot have access
[2010/08/21 11:58] Kaseido Quandry: no, nor do I have RA-level access
[2010/08/21 11:58] Sonja Strom: Sorry about that, Cindy
[2010/08/21 11:58] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, what is RA-level access?
[2010/08/21 11:59] Rose Springvale: citiznes don’t have notice priveleges on the CDS group now
[2010/08/21 11:59] Cindy Ecksol: y tag still says “CDS Citizen”
[2010/08/21 11:59] Kaseido Quandry: no, my apologies, it looks like I do now, thank you
[2010/08/21 12:00] Mikelo Serevi: you can change it yourself, Cindy
[2010/08/21 12:00] Cindy Ecksol: oh….wait….this darn new 2.0 browser hides everything!
[2010/08/21 12:00] Cindy Ecksol: just found it…
[2010/08/21 12:00] Kaseido Quandry: Mikelo, we weren’t able to till recently – I couldn’t, the last time I checked
[2010/08/21 12:00] Sonja Strom: Rose and Cindy, all citizens of the CDS now have the exact same posting rights in the CDS group as any member of the Executive Team.
[2010/08/21 12:00] Cindy Ecksol: sheesh!
[2010/08/21 12:00] Rose Springvale: if you look at the CDS group, and the citizen role… the send notices box is not checked
[2010/08/21 12:00] Mikelo Serevi: yeah, v2, ack
[2010/08/21 12:01] Rose Springvale: i just refreshed. not checked
[2010/08/21 12:01] Kaseido Quandry: confirmed – this has *not* been done
[2010/08/21 12:01] Cindy Ecksol: Rose, go under “Notices” and see if you have a + sign….
[2010/08/21 12:01] Rose Springvale: *I* do
[2010/08/21 12:01] Callipygian Christensen: I can post a notice, as a reference point
[2010/08/21 12:01] Rose Springvale: but this is about CItizens rights
[2010/08/21 12:01] Cindy Ecksol: Kas? do you?
[2010/08/21 12:01] Rose Springvale: look in the group roles
[2010/08/21 12:01] Sonja Strom: Rose and everyone, I have no ability to alter the Citizen controls.
[2010/08/21 12:01] Kaseido Quandry: Under “Roles,” if you look at CDS Citizen
[2010/08/21 12:01] Kaseido Quandry: Allowed Abilities
[2010/08/21 12:01] Cindy Ecksol: oh….
[2010/08/21 12:01] Kaseido Quandry: Notices
[2010/08/21 12:01] Cindy Ecksol: gotcha
[2010/08/21 12:02] Kaseido Quandry: “Send Notices” is blank
[2010/08/21 12:02] Kaseido Quandry: this is what the law callled on the Chancellor to change a month ago
[2010/08/21 12:02] Rose Springvale: Sonja you do
[2010/08/21 12:02] Rose Springvale: or should
[2010/08/21 12:02] Sonja Strom: What I have been able to do, is to give everyone the same rights to post notices as the Executive Team.
[2010/08/21 12:02] Sonja Strom: That I have done.
[2010/08/21 12:02] Rose Springvale: follow up with Sudane or jamie i guess or claude, as owners lol
[2010/08/21 12:02] Kaseido Quandry: that is not true, and I’m looking right at the evidence of that
[2010/08/21 12:03] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, if you open your group info box,
[2010/08/21 12:03] Rose Springvale: wow, so we have a community full of executives lol
[2010/08/21 12:03] Keila Forager: Give it a week..LOL
[2010/08/21 12:03] Sonja Strom: you can change your level to Executive.
[2010/08/21 12:03] Kaseido Quandry: oh, I see what you did – ok, that’s bizarre
[2010/08/21 12:03] Kaseido Quandry: and really not a good idea, I don’t think.
[2010/08/21 12:03] Keila Forager: No, not a good idea at all..
[2010/08/21 12:04] Rose Springvale: could you please follow up with one of the group owners sonja and grant the power to citizens?
[2010/08/21 12:04] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, that was the only abiltity for that I had.
[2010/08/21 12:04] Rose Springvale: and then leave exec as exec?
[2010/08/21 12:04] Kaseido Quandry: See, this is why I requested a meeting with you and your team
[2010/08/21 12:04] Mikelo Serevi: Was this change made in response to a law?
[2010/08/21 12:04] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, you can choose to be unhappy with it,
[2010/08/21 12:04] Kaseido Quandry: Well, NL13-1(d) called on the Chancellor to extend notice abilities to all citizens
[2010/08/21 12:04] Rose Springvale: do you have more to present sonja?
[2010/08/21 12:04] Sonja Strom: but it did what you wanted.
[2010/08/21 12:04] Keila Forager: All the citizens could walk around as execs’ and totally confuse new citizens..hehe
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: oh my!
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: surely we can do better…
[2010/08/21 12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so too
[2010/08/21 12:05] Rose Springvale: we are at 5 past 12
[2010/08/21 12:05] Sonja Strom: I did give notice abilities to all citizens.
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: exec role needs to be different than citizen role….
[2010/08/21 12:05] Mikelo Serevi: I’m sure we can work it out
[2010/08/21 12:05] Keila Forager: I think we should let Sonja finish , then discuss..
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: yes, sonja…but you also gave them EVERYTHING ELSE!!!
[2010/08/21 12:05] Kaseido Quandry: Sonja, if you had simply lived up to your own promise to actually respond to requests for meetings, we could’ve prevented this cockup
[2010/08/21 12:05] Cindy Ecksol: not such a good idea….
[2010/08/21 12:05] Mikelo Serevi: But it doesn’t seem that Sonja has “failed” us
[2010/08/21 12:06] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[2010/08/21 12:06] Rose Springvale: lets not get into personality issues, but if you’d meet with kas’s committee please sonja, that would help
[2010/08/21 12:06] Sonja Strom: Cindy, I am not unhappy with giving abilities to any of our citizens.
[2010/08/21 12:06] Sonja Strom: This is a good community —
[2010/08/21 12:06] Rose Springvale: that isn’t what the law says though, if we need to revisit it to be more clear, it will need to come to the RA
[2010/08/21 12:06] Keila Forager: But it shouldn’t be your decision Sonja..
[2010/08/21 12:07] Tor Karlsvalt: I could use some of these powers to remove plywood boxes I find rezzed around town.
[2010/08/21 12:07] Keila Forager: I’m now an exec, see
[2010/08/21 12:07] Kaseido Quandry: Have you complied with NL13-1(e), Sonja?
[2010/08/21 12:07] Sonja Strom: Keila, what should not be my decision?
[2010/08/21 12:07] Lilith Ivory is way concerned about some … uhm toga merchants …having exec rights
[2010/08/21 12:07] Rose Springvale: is there a reason you can’t meet with the commission Sonja?
[2010/08/21 12:08] Keila Forager: to make me an exec..
[2010/08/21 12:08] Tor Karlsvalt thinks he might check if his cabin is still there.
[2010/08/21 12:08] Solomon Mosely: guys, this is details for later, i think. can we get on with the report of Exec. highlights?
[2010/08/21 12:08] Keila Forager: Sonja, Just a suggestion, but seems if would be more efficient time wise and for you and the rest of the RA if you were to be prepared with your report in a notecard and copy and paste. Typing your report cuts into others allowed time and no time for questions.
[2010/08/21 12:08] Sonja Strom is searching for the text of NL13-1(e),
[2010/08/21 12:08] Kaseido Quandry: Passwords changed and shared with the LRA and Dean
[2010/08/21 12:08] Sonja Strom: and will respond so soon as she knows what it is
[2010/08/21 12:08] Kaseido Quandry: e. Passwords for all official media channels shall be held by the Chancellor and appropriate members of the Public Information Team, the LRA and the Dean of the SC. Under no circumstances shall these passwords be known only to one person. At the beginning of their term, the Chancellor shall change all passwords and immediately notify the LRA and the Dean of the SC of the new passwords for the term.
[2010/08/21 12:08] Rose Springvale: kas, when would you like to meet? lets just set a date
[2010/08/21 12:09] Sonja Strom: Thank you Kaseido
[2010/08/21 12:09] Kaseido Quandry: I’m wide open, except for Monday Wednesday and Friday before noon SLT
[2010/08/21 12:09] Rose Springvale: Sonja, is there a time you’d propose given those parameters?
[2010/08/21 12:10] Sonja Strom: Why do you want to meet with me, Kaseido?
[2010/08/21 12:10] Rose Springvale: hmm
[2010/08/21 12:10] Rose Springvale: is there a problem?
[2010/08/21 12:10] Keila Forager: oh my
[2010/08/21 12:10] Rose Springvale: out of respect for all the people who want to talk about this issue, i would like you to meet with the commission
[2010/08/21 12:10] Kaseido Quandry: For the same reason Tor wants you to attend Finance meetings, Sonja
[2010/08/21 12:11] Rose Springvale: then you can finish your report and we can get on with the meeting?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Sonja Strom: I am the elected Chancellor, and I am doing my duties as the Chancellor.
[2010/08/21 12:11] Kaseido Quandry: What is the problem, Sonja? I thought anyone could bring you their concerns – surely that extends to the RA?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Sonja Strom: Are you unhappy with them?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Rose Springvale: sonja?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Kaseido Quandry: Pick your time, and I’ll call a Communications Committee meeting around it
[2010/08/21 12:11] Rose Springvale: is there a problem meeting?
[2010/08/21 12:11] Sonja Strom: Kaseido, that is true
[2010/08/21 12:12] Sonja Strom: is that what you want to meet about?
[2010/08/21 12:12] Kaseido Quandry: OMFG, yes – as I’ve requested publicly and privately, and called for in 3 RA meetings now
[2010/08/21 12:12] Sonja Strom: why can’t we talk about that now?
[2010/08/21 12:12] Rose Springvale: we are out of time sonja
[2010/08/21 12:12] Rose Springvale: over half an hour now
[2010/08/21 12:12] Kaseido Quandry: Because we should have adjourned 12 minutes ago
[2010/08/21 12:13] Sonja Strom: I see no reason at all for our conversations to be only in private
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: out of respect for the RA members, please meet in commission and report back to us
[2010/08/21 12:13] Mikelo Serevi: Maybe more time should be allocated for Sonja’s report next time?
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: nothing is private in commissions
[2010/08/21 12:13] Kaseido Quandry: no one has had a private conversation
[2010/08/21 12:13] Sonja Strom: if they re about public matters
[2010/08/21 12:13] Arria Perreault: yes,I agree with Mikelo
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: thanks for your input mikelo
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: and arria
[2010/08/21 12:13] Keila Forager: Maybe she can copy and paste next time and save some time
[2010/08/21 12:13] Kaseido Quandry: *PLEASE*
[2010/08/21 12:13] Rose Springvale: we will call a special meeting for the chancellors report henceforth
[2010/08/21 12:14] Mikelo Serevi: RA meetings aren’t special?
[2010/08/21 12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: State of the Sim.
[2010/08/21 12:14] Rose Springvale: in the meantime, please just set a public meeting for the communications
[2010/08/21 12:14] Kaseido Quandry: Let the record show the Chancellor continues to refuse to meet with the COmmunications Commission
[2010/08/21 12:14] Delia Lake is wondering aloud how there could be more people in the Executive branch of the CDS group than there citizens in the CDS………
[2010/08/21 12:14] Tor Karlsvalt: really monthly reports shouldn’t be too long.
[2010/08/21 12:14] Rose Springvale: major issues here folks
[2010/08/21 12:14] Sonja Strom: I come to all of the Commission meetings that I can
[2010/08/21 12:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn apologises but has to go now, and wish you all a great end-of-meeting…. I’m sorry!
[2010/08/21 12:15] Rose Springvale: and i think we have reached the end of our ability to do constructive work today
[2010/08/21 12:15] Tor Karlsvalt: bye Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Kaseido Quandry: PICK! A! TIME!
[2010/08/21 12:15] Delia Lake: bye Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Keila Forager: By Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Arria Perreault: bye Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Sonja Strom: I have attended many of them.
[2010/08/21 12:15] Kaseido Quandry: bye Gwyn
[2010/08/21 12:15] Rose Springvale: yes Sonja, please, just pick a time now to meet with Communications
[2010/08/21 12:15] Pip Torok notes that there is NO _refusal_ to meet … on anyone’s part
[2010/08/21 12:15] Keila Forager: Sonja, just pick a time for Kas
[2010/08/21 12:15] Rose Springvale: i’m sure many of us would like to meet
[2010/08/21 12:15] Kaseido Quandry: The Chancellor continues to refuse to meet with the communications commission, which has indicated it will meet at *any* time she chooses
[2010/08/21 12:16] Arria Perreault: will be this meeting a public one with transcript?
[2010/08/21 12:16] Mikelo Serevi: why are you badgering the chancellor? She’ll meet if she can
[2010/08/21 12:16] Rose Springvale: I apologize to the RA and the Citiznes, we are well behind time
[2010/08/21 12:16] Callipygian Christensen is a citizen and would like to be heard
[2010/08/21 12:16] Sonja Strom: I can meet next Saturday at 11am PDT
[2010/08/21 12:16] Rose Springvale: thank you
[2010/08/21 12:16] Kaseido Quandry: Sold.
[2010/08/21 12:16] Sonja Strom: Where shall we meet?
[2010/08/21 12:16] Tor Karlsvalt: Can the LRA recognize Calli
[2010/08/21 12:16] Arria Perreault: KAs, will be this meeting a public one with transcript?
[2010/08/21 12:16] Rose Springvale: indeed. All commission meetings are public and transcripted
[2010/08/21 12:16] Callipygian Christensen: Tor, I can wait..I just dont want Citizen’s concerns dropped due to time..thank you
[2010/08/21 12:16] Rose Springvale: thank you sonja
[2010/08/21 12:16] Kaseido Quandry: Arria, stop grandstanding. *All* meetings of all CDS commissions are public and transcipted
[2010/08/21 12:17] Keila Forager: Me either Calli and I have one too
[2010/08/21 12:17] Rose Springvale: if you have more to report, please put it on the Exec thread of the forum
[2010/08/21 12:17] Rose Springvale: we need to move on now
[2010/08/21 12:17] Sonja Strom: alright
[2010/08/21 12:17] Sonja Strom: Thank you for your kindness,
[2010/08/21 12:17] Rose Springvale: we are now to RA/citizens concerns
[2010/08/21 12:18] Arria Perreault: are announcements concerns?
[2010/08/21 12:18] Sonja Strom: and supportiveness.
[2010/08/21 12:18] Keila Forager raises hand but Calli was first
[2010/08/21 12:18] Rose Springvale: I recognize alli and keila
[2010/08/21 12:18] Rose Springvale: Calli
[2010/08/21 12:18] Rose Springvale: no arria, after
[2010/08/21 12:18] Arria Perreault: ok
[2010/08/21 12:18] Rose Springvale: Calli?
[2010/08/21 12:18] Callipygian Christensen: If you truly want an involved citizenship, ALL of you RA members and Chancellor need to make coming to RA, following what is happening, INVITING
[2010/08/21 12:18] You decline Locus Amoenus Common Land, Locus Amoenus (119, 154, 24) from A group member named Kaseido Quandry.
[2010/08/21 12:19] Rose Springvale: thank you Calli
[2010/08/21 12:19] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[2010/08/21 12:19] Callipygian Christensen: A Chencello’rs *report* can be written up, in the box, and actually have the time used for Q & A…
[2010/08/21 12:19] Keila Forager: I agree
[2010/08/21 12:19] Kaseido Quandry: yes, as requested last time.
[2010/08/21 12:19] Rose Springvale: done?
[2010/08/21 12:19] Callipygian Christensen: RA members can read and post on the forum threads of commissions and be prepared…
[2010/08/21 12:19] Callipygian Christensen: argue it out there..
[2010/08/21 12:19] Callipygian Christensen: and, with all due respect to ALL of you..
[2010/08/21 12:20] Callipygian Christensen: you still sound like furstrated schoolchildren still taking jabs at each other ver the issues of the last year
[2010/08/21 12:20] Pip Torok strongly agrees
[2010/08/21 12:20] Callipygian Christensen: I understand that some of you are furstrated..some of you feel like martyrs…
[2010/08/21 12:20] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree
[2010/08/21 12:20] Callipygian Christensen: well get off the cross
[2010/08/21 12:21] Rose Springvale: keila?
[2010/08/21 12:21] Keila Forager: I have a citizen’s concern from Richie Deschanel about the textures on the clocktower in NFS. They don’t match and I’ve had visitors to CDS comment on it. They need to be fixed, so can they be fixed???
[2010/08/21 12:21] Callipygian Christensen: thank you
[2010/08/21 12:21] Tor Karlsvalt: has a small issue
[2010/08/21 12:21] Rose Springvale: That needs to go to the Chancellor i think. All community rebuilting, changes are Exec decisions Keila
[2010/08/21 12:22] Rose Springvale: Tor?
[2010/08/21 12:22] Keila Forager: OK, well it looks very out of place..
[2010/08/21 12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: in line with what Keila mentioned
[2010/08/21 12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: the flags on the schloss are waiving in different directions
[2010/08/21 12:22] Tor Karlsvalt: that was pointed out by someone
[2010/08/21 12:22] Rose Springvale: again, needs to go to the chancellor
[2010/08/21 12:22] Keila Forager: It’s amazing what visitors will notice
[2010/08/21 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: another point
[2010/08/21 12:23] Pip Torok: our flags are confrontational!
[2010/08/21 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2010/08/21 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: RE land in LA
[2010/08/21 12:23] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane has had to repossess much since Arias left
[2010/08/21 12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: howver there are still 4 parcels under his control
[2010/08/21 12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: Sudane is hesitant to seize these until the end of the month
[2010/08/21 12:24] Pip Torok: There is a payment problem?
[2010/08/21 12:24] Tor Karlsvalt: well tier has been paid through July
[2010/08/21 12:25] Keila Forager: If tier is not paid, she should seize them now..
[2010/08/21 12:25] Mikelo Serevi: luckily, we have a dandy new policy to deal with this in time
[2010/08/21 12:25] Pip Torok: till the end of July?
[2010/08/21 12:25] Rose Springvale: law controls Tor, i’m sure Sudane will handle it as soon as possible
[2010/08/21 12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: no not until the 28th
[2010/08/21 12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: yes she will just wanted all to know
[2010/08/21 12:25] Rose Springvale: thanks
[2010/08/21 12:25] Tor Karlsvalt: this will affect the quay
[2010/08/21 12:25] Rose Springvale: other concerns?
[2010/08/21 12:25] Rose Springvale: announcements?
[2010/08/21 12:26] Rose Springvale: Arria did you have one?
[2010/08/21 12:26] Arria Perreault: yes
[2010/08/21 12:27] Arria Perreault: I am please to announce to you the official opening of the Villa of the Mysteries in Locus Amoenus
[2010/08/21 12:27] Arria Perreault: it’s a project of Ulysse Alexandre and I
[2010/08/21 12:27] Arria Perreault: Ulysse has made the main work of building
[2010/08/21 12:27] Arria Perreault: we have worked together on texturing
[2010/08/21 12:27] Cindy Ecksol waves to all….must run!
[2010/08/21 12:27] Rose Springvale: thanks cindy
[2010/08/21 12:28] Keila Forager: Bye Cindy, me too
[2010/08/21 12:28] Lilith Ivory: bye Cindy
[2010/08/21 12:28] Rose Springvale: thank you for the announcement Arria. Any others?
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: this building is the reconstitution of the half of the villa of the same name in Pompei
[2010/08/21 12:28] Tor Karlsvalt: very nice Arria
[2010/08/21 12:28] Pip Torok: bye Cindy
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: I am not done
[2010/08/21 12:28] Lilith Ivory: I am wondering if we have any new citizens in the CDS
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: bye Cindy
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: at 1pm, we have an opening party
[2010/08/21 12:28] Lilith Ivory: to bad Sonja is gone by now
[2010/08/21 12:28] Arria Perreault: everybody is welcome
[2010/08/21 12:28] Pip Torok: I’d like to congratulate Arria and Ulysse on behalf of the RA for the magnificent build in LA
[2010/08/21 12:29] Arria Perreault: we will also give a guided tour
[2010/08/21 12:29] Tor Karlsvalt: ‚ô´~~‚ô´~~APPLAUSE~~‚ô´~~‚ô´
[2010/08/21 12:29] Mikelo Serevi:
[2010/08/21 12:29] Lilith Ivory: applause
[2010/08/21 12:29] Rose Springvale: are you finished?
[2010/08/21 12:29] Arria Perreault: some paintings are after the orginal
[2010/08/21 12:29] Pip Torok: APPLAUSE
[2010/08/21 12:29] Arria Perreault: thank to Sonja and Anna for their help
[2010/08/21 12:29] Rose Springvale: if there is nothing more, i’ll entertain a motion to adjourn, with apologies for the length of the meeting.
[2010/08/21 12:30] Arria Perreault: I am done
[2010/08/21 12:30] Mikelo Serevi: second
[2010/08/21 12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: nice job Arria
[2010/08/21 12:30] Pip Torok: motion to adjourn
[2010/08/21 12:30] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[2010/08/21 12:30] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Pip Torok: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Lilith Ivory: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Arria Perreault: aye
[2010/08/21 12:30] Rose Springvale: we are adjourned. thank you
[2010/08/21 12:31] Rose Springvale: next meeting noon on thursday august 26

Permalink.

RA Meeting 24 August 2010

Transcript, RA meeting August 26, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Aug 26, 2010 2:38 pm
[12:02] Rose Springvale: Thanks for coming everyone. We have a quorum so we can begin. Remember that everything is recorded and transcripted
[12:02] Arria Perreault: Hi everybody
[12:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Arria!
[12:03] Pip Torok: we’re symmetrical!
[12:03] Lilith Ivory: hi Arria
[12:03] Mikelo Serevi: hi arria
[12:03] Timo Gufler: hi Arria
[12:03] Rose Springvale: Gwyn, i’m going to just hand the reigns over to you
[12:03] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:03] Rose Springvale: welcome everyone
[12:03] Pip Torok: are we quorate?
[12:03] Rose Springvale: yes
[12:03] Rose Springvale: go ahead gwyn
[12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: poor me
[12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[12:04] Lilith Ivory smiles
[12:04] Rose Springvale: hey, you may finish today!
[12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: specially because I haven’t done all my homework!
[12:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, so perhaps we can focus on ONE of the issues
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. Chancellor direct election
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The comission has at least managed, in a blitz-meeting yesterday,
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to agree to split the overall legislation
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that deals with the Chancellor
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: in three separate parts
[12:05] Mikelo Serevi: sigh
[12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: #1 – Constitutional change introducing the concept of a directly-elected Chancellor
[12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: #2 – Regulating the way the Chancellor is elected
[12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: #3 – Term duration and limits.
[12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… three bills
[12:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bear with me as I post the text for them, which will take me a bit of time to copy and paste all the correct bits
[12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and then I guess we can discuss…
[12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s call bill #1 — Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act (I like long names! hehe)
[12:08] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Art II, Section 5 – Deleted and replaced with:
[12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. The Chancellor of the CDS shall be elected by universal suffrage of all citizens from among any CDS citizen who shall make application to the SC.
[12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2. The Chancellor will serve a term ending with the election of the next Chancellor.
[12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. The Chancellor may not be elected to or serve on the Representative Assembly, nor serve on the Scientific Council.
[12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it. Simple. Feel free to discuss while I assemble bits and pieces of the next two lol
[12:10] Rose Springvale: point of information
[12:10] Rose Springvale: only the first item is a change, correct
[12:10] Rose Springvale: ?
[12:10] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I still do question why it’s being split up
[12:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Bill #1 is the ONLY one with a Constitutional Amendment.
[12:10] Rose Springvale: and items 2 and 3 are already law i think
[12:11] Rose Springvale: of what you just posted
[12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, sorry… answering Rose first….
[12:11] Rose Springvale: lets do this in order, if you have comments, raise hands please?
[12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Item 2 is not different, no
[12:11] Arria Perreault: I have an amendment for 3.
[12:11] Mikelo Serevi: this isn’t a classroom
[12:11] Rose Springvale: its a formal meeting. please let gwyn finish then you will have a turn
[12:11] Arria Perreault raises hand
[12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Item 3 drops the wording regarding the “Artisanal COuncil”
[12:11] Rose Springvale: after mikelo arria
[12:12] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:12] Mikelo Serevi: wow, is debate really being silenced?
[12:12] Rose Springvale: thanks gwyn. finished?
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as an effort to slowly get rid our laws of that oddity.
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now the answer to Mikelo!
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Simple, Mikelo. Bill #1 is the ONLY with a COnstitutional Amendment and requires a 2/3 supermajority vopte of all RA members.
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bills #2 and #3 are simple laws, just need a regular majority.
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: Right, but the other parts are essential
[12:13] Rose Springvale: do you have mor to say Mikelo?
[12:13] Rose Springvale: on this part?
[12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re mostly procedural; not essencial.
[12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *essential even
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I feel that this is being railroaded a bit
[12:13] Rose Springvale: current law would control if they aren’t passed
[12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly like Rose says.
[12:13] Mikelo Serevi: Although I don’t oppose direct election necessarily
[12:13] Rose Springvale: we are here to discuss the issues Mikelo, no one is railroading anything.
[12:14] Rose Springvale: if you are finished, lets let Arria have a turn
[12:14] Mikelo Serevi: but you are talking over me here
[12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Goodie, Mikelo! That way, if you agree with the direct election, but disagree with the rest of the procedures, you can vote on #1 and vote against #2 and #3. That’s the intended idea
[12:14] Mikelo Serevi: I see
[12:14] Arria Perreault: I have a cquestion related to the answer to Mikelo and an amendment for 3. 1. the thequestion: are the two other bills valid only if the constitutional amendment pass?
[12:14] Rose Springvale: wait
[12:14] Rose Springvale: lets make sure he’s finished so he’s not talked over
[12:15] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:15] Rose Springvale: tell us when you are finished please Mikelo
[12:15] Mikelo Serevi: go ahead, arria
[12:15] Rose Springvale: smiles. i’ll take that as finished. please go ahead arria
[12:15] Arria Perreault: I have a cquestion related to the answer to Mikelo and an amendment for 3. 1. the thequestion: are the two other bills valid only if the constitutional amendment pass?
[12:16] Rose Springvale: gwyn?
[12:16] Rose Springvale: is that the intent of the commission?
[12:17] Rose Springvale: hmm, may have lost her
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry…
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s an excellent question, Arria!
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We didn’t address it at the meeting, but I suppose that teh two bills do not *require* the const. amendment to pass.
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They might be useful on their own, as procedures
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol scratches her head over that one….
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, I won’t answer it. I’d say, I’d be fine in voting on them nevertheless
[12:18] Arria Perreault: they are not related to the fact the Chancellor is elected by all citizen?
[12:18] Mikelo Serevi: the thign is, they are all part of the same change
[12:18] Rose Springvale: one at a time folks
[12:18] Rose Springvale: arria has the floor now
[12:18] Cindy Ecksol: how can we pass a new process for chancellor election if we’re not changing the process for chancellor election?
[12:19] Rose Springvale: cindy please wait
[12:19] Pip Torok: I wd not have thought so, Arria
[12:19] Rose Springvale: grrr
[12:19] Mikelo Serevi: so why split it up?
[12:19] Mikelo Serevi: sorry rose, but this is discusion
[12:19] Arria Perreault: especially number 2
[12:19] Rose Springvale: we won’t have a free for all, its too hard on the person presenting
[12:19] Rose Springvale: ask in order please
[12:19] Arria Perreault: we had this issue last term. better to solve it now, instead to bring it later to the SC
[12:20] Rose Springvale: gwyn, do you have a reply ?
[12:20] Arria Perreault: (lawmaking is a long process …)
[12:21] Rose Springvale: the issue in this part is solely whether we want to change to a direct election process. The details are in the next segments
[12:21] Rose Springvale: if we dont’ want to change to direct election, the other parts change in effect
[12:21] Mikelo Serevi: raises hand
[12:21] Rose Springvale: Cindy i think you are next
[12:22] Arria Perreault: it would mean that the 2 laws are not valid of the constitutional amendment doesn’t pass?
[12:22] Rose Springvale: that is not what she said. they just have different effect Arria, that’s why they are separate.
[12:22] Rose Springvale: cindy, did you want to comment or shall we move to pip?
[12:23] Rose Springvale: must be afk, Pip?
[12:23] Cindy Ecksol: I already commented
[12:23] Rose Springvale: would you like to put it in order?
[12:23] Cindy Ecksol: would like a response though
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn also raises hand to reply…
[12:23] Cindy Ecksol: if we don’t pass the first one….why bother with the other 2
[12:24] Rose Springvale: go on gwyn
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that at least on Bill #2, there is a definition on when voting ooths are set up etc
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *booths
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So that wouldn’t make sense if there is no direct election
[12:24] Cindy Ecksol nods
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The only thing that #2 has that would make sense is the term duration.
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… my suggestion…
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s vote on #1 first,
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and either introduce changes on the term duration only (it would need some rewriting)
[12:25] Mikelo Serevi: I think it needs more discussion
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (if #1 voting fails)
[12:25] Callipygian Christensen: Term duration was specified as bill #3 earlier
[12:26] Rose Springvale: Pip you are next
[12:26] Pip Torok: no question from me
[12:26] Cindy Ecksol: I’m fine with Gwyn’s proposal…just wanted to make sure we weren’t going to waste time voting on 2 and 3 willy nilly if 1 didn’t pass
[12:26] Rose Springvale: thank you, Anyone who has not yet had the floor want to comment?
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My apologies to all…. I thinkI have to review bills #2 and #3 on my notes first lol
[12:26] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:27] Rose Springvale: Mikelo, you want to say more now?
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To excuse myself why I haven’t done this homework yet, I should say that I have crashed several times during the meeting and didn’t have the transcript ready
[12:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (thanks to Cindy for sending me a copy of it!)
[12:27] Mikelo Serevi: I want to know what the practical upshot of this is
[12:27] Arria Perreault: I still have an amanedment for the point 3
[12:27] Arria Perreault: (I said before)
[12:28] Rose Springvale: okay arria, you didn’t post it, lets let gwyn reply to mikelo
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: If the three are split up,are we being sold a concept without full knowledge of the actual effects?
[12:28] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:28] Pip Torok: but the commission did exactly that, Mikelo
[12:28] Mikelo Serevi: For example, will sonia be able to run for chancellor, for example?
[12:28] Rose Springvale: gwyn, you want to respond?
[12:29] Pip Torok: imo this is not retroactive
[12:29] Arria Perreault: retroactive effect?
[12:29] You decline Aug 29: CW Anderson & Jay Ackroyd@VirtuallySpeakingSundays from A group member named Widget Whiteberry.
[12:29] Rose Springvale: i’ve never seen a cds law applied retroactively
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. No, that wouldn’t make any sense.
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: SOnia would most certainly be able to run for office again if she wishes!
[12:31] Rose Springvale: does that answer the question?
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: but the single bill before called for limiting back to back terms
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not altogether sure what the current law is, or is there one?
[12:31] Pip Torok: yes but to apply after it is passed
[12:32] Rose Springvale: that can be addressed when and if we consider that though, yes?
[12:32] Mikelo Serevi: I just wouldn’t sign a car lease, then decide the details later, is all
[12:33] Rose Springvale: thanks . Arria did you want to make an amendment?
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oops. point of order…. i completely forgot…. during the commission meeting, we actually added a 4th point… my deep apologies…. 4. Chancellor vacancies will be filled by a by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law.
[12:33] Rose Springvale: thanks Gwyn.
[12:33] Arria Perreault: 2. the amendment. I would like to add 3. The Chancellor may not be elected to or serve on the Representative Assembly, nor serve on the Scientific Council. The Chancellor cannot have a similar position in an other SL community.
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it was added for consistency; the same thing is on the const. for RA members)
[12:33] Pip Torok: (oh yes … I forgot … the CV !)
[12:33] Rose Springvale: gwyn, is this a friendly amendment?
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: makes sense, gwyn
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Point 4. or Arria’s suggestion?
[12:34] Rose Springvale: arrias suggestion
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. I would like to discuss it first!
[12:34] Rose Springvale: arria, you want to talk about it?
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, please!
[12:34] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:34] Solomon Mosely: is that meant at the same time or concurnetly?
[12:35] Solomon Mosely: sorry, consecutively
[12:36] Solomon Mosely:
[12:36] Pip Torok: ah! …
[12:36] Arria Perreault: The Chancellor represents the interest of CDS in any negociation with other SL communities. I think he/she is in charge for our foreign affairs. I consider that the Chancellor should not have any conflict of interest
[12:36] Solomon Mosely: is it 6 for one or half a dozen?
[12:36] Rose Springvale: gwyn?
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well. While I’m all for people listing their potential conflicts of interest,
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I think there is even a law for that…
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: my concern is that this might become unmanageable in practice.
[12:37] Arria Perreault: I am not talking about owning or renting a house, but having a governmental position
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because, well…. what is exactly “a SL community”?
[12:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I know, Arria.
[12:37] Arria Perreault: an community with any kind of goverment
[12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, then we should add that.
[12:38] Rose Springvale: all communities have some kind of government
[12:38] Mikelo Serevi: Hmm, that’s a tough call
[12:38] Arria Perreault: Roma SPQR and its Senate
[12:38] Rose Springvale: so estate owners
[12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Would a company be seen as a “government”?
[12:38] Rose Springvale: companies
[12:38] Rose Springvale: estate managers
[12:38] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:38] Rose Springvale: we’ll eliminate most of the CDS population
[12:38] Rose Springvale: Sonja would be disqualified
[12:38] Pip Torok: I’d say _any_ cohesive aggregate of avatars …
[12:38] Rose Springvale: as would gwyn, sudane, solomn, etc
[12:39] Solomon Mosely: oh not this, this is the citizen debate
[12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so it means that I could be excluded for becoming a Chancellor candidate, because I happen to be the general manager for a company that does building in Second Life and OpenSim?
[12:39] Delia Lake is wondering if that could mean a government roll playing part in a gor sim where the CDS would probably not have any negotiations at any time………hmmm
[12:39] Rose Springvale: i think so gwyn
[12:39] Rose Springvale: i think it is very dangerous and we shold let voters decide
[12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…. more complex than that…
[12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m part of a group that meets every Tuesday in SL.
[12:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And has done so since March 2004
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It doesn’t won land.
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *own
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It has no democratic means of electing a ‘leader’
[12:40] Solomon Mosely: the core doesnt have land?
[12:40] Pip Torok: imo we are preempting what should be going through voters minds … I say give them the chance to vot on the basis of _their_ judgment
[12:40] Arria Perreault: at least, all candidates should declare their interests
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nevertheless, I’m one of the officers, and the group is pretty much organised. So…. would that be considered a conflict of interests?
[12:40] Pip Torok agrees with Arria
[12:40] Arria Perreault: so poeple know for who they are votiing
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the group HAS met in the CDS in the past)
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: Yes, I agree arria
[12:40] Arria Perreault: we can add this in the law
[12:41] Rose Springvale: this law, or the conflicts law we are supposedly working on?
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, we DO have the requirement for members to post their conflict of interests
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (let me see if I can figure out where that law is )
[12:41] Solomon Mosely: that sounds fine
[12:41] Arria Perreault: the law we will vote today
[12:41] Solomon Mosely: but wasnt the discussion abotu having a direct election or not?
[12:41] Solomon Mosely: and voting on that?
[12:42] Arria Perreault: or the other one (can we change it today?)
[12:42] Rose Springvale: arria has moved an amendment, ther is not a second at this point.
[12:42] Rose Springvale: lets let gwyn tell us if it is accepted as a friendly
[12:42] Arria Perreault: I modify my amendment and I say:
[12:42] Solomon Mosely: wait, this is all in the direct election bill?
[12:42] Cindy Ecksol: yes, sol….arria is proposing to amend.
[12:42] Cindy Ecksol: so far no second I think….
[12:43] Mikelo Serevi: yes, I think so sol
[12:43] Rose Springvale: this is a proposed amendment, being amended as we speak
[12:43] Arria Perreault: all candidates has to declare their interests (if someone can improve the wording)
[12:43] Cindy Ecksol notes that it needs a second for discussion…..
[12:43] Rose Springvale: lets make sure that isn’t already in the law, waiting for gwyn
[12:43] Solomon Mosely: doesnt this seems like a seperate issue? related, but definately seperate
[12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I don’t think it’s necessary…. we have that on a bill since 2008: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1836&p=11169&hilit=conflict+of+interests#p11169
[12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. No person who is holding a position as a member or officer of a branch of CDS government may simultaneously hold a position as a member or officer in a different branch of CDS government.
2. All persons holding a position as a member or officer of a branch of CDS government must make a public ‘declaration of interest’ statement to the CDS Forums (or appropriate substititute medium), if they act to approve or reject any action, in their official government role, that they reasonably can conclude would benefit themselves uniquely, as opposed to the general case of benefits that accrue generally to all CDS citizens.
[12:43] Solomon Mosely: this is chancellor eligibility
[12:44] Pip Torok sees it as part and parcel of the job
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol: ok, so no need for it here….
[12:44] Solomon Mosely: its not
[12:44] Solomon Mosely: do the peeople or ra vote for chancellor? yes or no.
[12:44] Arria Perreault: this is after the election ….
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol: I move to end discussion
[12:44] Solomon Mosely: then, who can be chancellor, is a seperate issue
[12:44] Pip Torok: seconded
[12:44] Rose Springvale: on the amendment cindy?
[12:44] Cindy Ecksol: amendment did not get a second
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: This bill passed?
[12:45] Cindy Ecksol: no discussion required
[12:45] Pip Torok: second
[12:45] Rose Springvale: mikeo, there has been no vote
[12:45] Cindy Ecksol: I move to end discussion on Gwyn’s #1
[12:45] Rose Springvale: the motion has been made to end discussion on the original motion and seconded
[12:45] Pip Torok: second
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: No, I mean Jamie’s conflict of interest bill
[12:45] Rose Springvale: all in favor of ending discussion?
[12:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah Mikelo… I was trying to get it
[12:45] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[12:45] Rose Springvale: on gwyns amendment
[12:45] Rose Springvale: er
[12:45] Rose Springvale: bill
[12:45] Pip Torok: aye
[12:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on ending discussion
[12:45] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:45] Solomon Mosely: aye
[12:45] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:45] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:45] Mikelo Serevi: If there is a similar bill, then it’s covered, aye
[12:46] Rose Springvale: chair votes aye as well
[12:46] Cindy Ecksol: so now vote to approve gwyn’s amendment?
[12:46] Arria Perreault: This is a law we should implemente now
[12:46] Rose Springvale: we’ll move to vote then
[12:46] Rose Springvale: gwyn, want to post the language in full one more time please?
[12:46] Cindy Ecksol: or on the entire #1 as amended by gwyn
[12:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, just to recap what is under vote…
[12:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3069
[12:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I’ll copy & paste
[12:46] Rose Springvale: thanks
[12:46] Arria Perreault: we vote only the constitutional change now?
[12:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, nust Bill #1
[12:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *just
[12:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #1 — Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act
Art II, Section 5 on the CDS Constitution – Deleted and replaced with:
1. The Chancellor of the CDS shall be elected by universal suffrage of all citizens from among any CDS citizen who shall make application to the SC.
2. The Chancellor will serve a term ending with the election of the next Chancellor.
i]3. The Chancellor may not be elected to or serve on the Representative Assembly, nor serve on the Scientific Council.[/i] 4. Chancellor vacancies will be filled by a by-election administered on a schedule set by the Scientific Council consistent with other applicable CDS law.
[12:47] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:47] Rose Springvale: okay, all in favor?
[12:47] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[12:47] Pip Torok: aye
[12:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[12:47] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:47] Arria Perreault: nay
[12:47] Timo Gufler: aye
[12:48] Solomon Mosely: um, sorry, but it doesnt state by what margin the chancellor wins. is it assumes simple majority?
[12:48] Rose Springvale: not to that solomon
[12:48] Solomon Mosely: ok
[12:48] Rose Springvale: we’ll consider that once we determine this part i’m sure
[12:48] Solomon Mosely: aye
[12:48] Rose Springvale: okay
[12:49] Arria Perreault: there is one 7 days vote
[12:49] Solomon Mosely: somebodys mic is on, i like that
[12:49] Rose Springvale: i vote aye, we are at 6-2 and need 9 to pass, but we do have that many outstanding 7 day votes
[12:49] Solomon Mosely: can we do this in voice?
[12:49] Rose Springvale: no, language and transcripting sol
[12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:49] Rose Springvale: so … shall we go ahead and discuss the balance?
[12:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Actually there was something neglected on the commission — the voting
[12:49] Rose Springvale: Kas, Keila and Tor all have 7 day votes
[12:50] Arria Perreault: and Muhammand
[12:50] Rose Springvale: of course, he didn’t send to me, but i see he is on forums
[12:50] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:50] Rose Springvale: we need 9 to pass
[12:50] Rose Springvale: i suggest we go ahead with the discussion
[12:51] Cindy Ecksol: for #2?
[12:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[12:51] Rose Springvale: yes gwyn?
[12:51] Mikelo Serevi: cindy, your mic is on
[12:51] Cindy Ecksol: thx
[12:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that we ought to decide what we have discussed before. If we approve #2 and #3, but #1 fails, what happens with #2 and #3?
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, I note that the commission sadly neglected to determine the voting system for the Chancellor, e.g. it’s simple majority, or absolute majority, etc
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all
[12:52] Cindy Ecksol: we can just add a provision to each that if #1 fails then 2 and 3 are null and void
[12:52] Rose Springvale: i think its an important question, as i personally wouldn’t vote for 12 month terms without direct vote
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be more then fine with that
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Cindy’s suggestion.
[12:52] Rose Springvale: oka
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: gwyn, how about you just introduce #2 with that provision attached?
[12:53] Rose Springvale: your motion, so you can add it
[12:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok!
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: since you haven’t posted it here yet
[12:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, posting now….. here it comes, a long sheet of text… hehe
[12:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #2 — Chancellor Election Act
1. (Option A) Chancellors are elected for a 12-month term and cannot hold two terms in succession. Term starts simultaneously with the Representative Assembly February term.
1. (Option B) Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term, which start simultaneously with the Representative Assembly terms.
2. (Option A) Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
[12:53] Cindy Ecksol: second
[12:53] Rose Springvale: which one lol
[12:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (waaaait)
[12:54] Cindy Ecksol: gwyn’s motion
[12:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The new terms will start on February 1 and July 1.
3. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[12:54] Cindy Ecksol: sorry….jumped the gun…didn’t all get there….
[12:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ah ok)
[12:54] Cindy Ecksol: and you also need to post the last little piece we just discussed
[12:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 4. This bill is null and void if the Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act is not passed.
[12:54] Rose Springvale: shhh cindy
[12:54] Delia Lake: wouldn’t be a good idea to replace the current sect 5 with 2 & 3 minus 1 but still eliminating the current way of electing a chancellor
[12:54] Cindy Ecksol: ok, NOW I second….so that we can discuss :0-)
[12:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:55] Rose Springvale: can we second options? don’t we need to second ONE Of them
[12:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Discussion is open. May I just comment that the commission did not have a consensus on 6 or 12 month terms, so the RA has to pick one choice.
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol: no…just to open for discussion…we will amend to “pare down” to final bill
[12:55] Rose Springvale: lol
[12:55] Rose Springvale: fine
[12:55] Rose Springvale: comments?
[12:55] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[12:55] Solomon Mosely: 12
[12:56] Rose Springvale: lets let gwyn present first please
[12:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I made one, but I will add that we ought also to clarify *which* voting methodology we’ll use, e.g. simple majority, Borda, STV. etc)
[12:56] Pip Torok raises hand
[12:56] Rose Springvale: do you have more to report gwyn?
[12:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think I’m finished for now.
[12:56] Rose Springvale: okay, cindy
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: I’m in favor of 12 month terms.
[12:56] Cindy Ecksol: I think it has the potential to allow a chancellor to settle in and get a completely programs accomplished…
[12:57] Mikelo Serevi: Wouldn’t the election be decided the same way as RA seats?
[12:57] Cindy Ecksol: without TOO much interference by a six-month election.
[12:57] Rose Springvale: mikelo, cindy has the floor
[12:57] Cindy Ecksol: having the chancellor cycle lined up with RA cycle
[12:57] Cindy Ecksol: I think will be too much politicis twice a year
[12:57] Cindy Ecksol: done, thanks
[12:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:57] Rose Springvale: thank you
[12:57] Rose Springvale: solomon?
[12:58] Rose Springvale: must be afk, Pip?
[12:59] Solomon Mosely: oh, i was, pip, please go ahead if you like
[12:59] Rose Springvale: we’ll come back sol
[12:59] Pip Torok: with 12 month terms PLUS the “churn” of new chancellors we have the danger of an inadequate chancellor being in term for 12 months
[13:00] Rose Springvale: not sure i understand churning in this context. will you elaborate?
[13:00] Pip Torok: this will have the affect of exasperating citizens, then provoking apathy
[13:00] Pip Torok: … to the detriment of demoncracy …. done
[13:00] Rose Springvale: what do you mean by churning?
[13:00] Pip Torok: yes .. with term limits there is necessarily a greater amout of “new faces”
[13:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (point of order, and to clarify: this legislation does NOT remove the RA’s right to remove a Chancellor from office with a 2/3 vote, neither removes the veto power that the Chancellor has)
[13:01] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn
[13:01] Pip Torok: churn means different people not the same “crowd”
[13:01] Rose Springvale: okay, thank you. Mikelo?
[13:01] Mikelo Serevi: well, there are several points, which are we discussing now
[13:02] Rose Springvale: anything related to what gwyn posted
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: I’d say Im in favor of terms changing with the RA
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: but forcing no back-to back terms might be disruptive
[13:02] Arria Perreault raises hand
[13:02] Mikelo Serevi: especially for 6-month terms
[13:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (another point of order — to be discussed on Bill #3 )
[13:03] Rose Springvale: so you are in favor of long terms mikelo?
[13:03] Mikelo Serevi: maybe we could limit how many consecutive instead of forcing staggered terms
[13:03] Rose Springvale: keila welcome, cindy will you give her the text under discussion please?
[13:03] Keila Forager: Hi, thanks..still rezzing
[13:03] Cindy Ecksol: sure..
[13:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops I just boticed I made a huge mistake lol — point 1 on that bil should actually be a separate bill hehe
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *noticed even
[13:04] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shakes head*
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[13:04] Rose Springvale: okay.. do you want to post what you want us to discuss now?
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: And also, I was assuming chancellor elections would be decided like RA ones, right gwyn?
[13:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I withdraw the motion after discussion has started
[13:04] Mikelo Serevi: done
[13:04] Rose Springvale: just post the part under discussion currently, we’ll delay the discussion on the later parts
[13:05] Arria Perreault raises hand
[13:05] Rose Springvale: effectively amending your motion,
[13:05] Rose Springvale: okay sol then arria
[13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: For Keila’s sake:
[13:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #2 — Chancellor Election Act
1. (Option A) Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule. The new term will start on February 1.
1. (Option B) Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaign
[13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule. The new terms will start on February 1 and July 1.
2. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[13:06] Rose Springvale: thanks gwyn
[13:07] Rose Springvale: can we assume the second still applies cindy?
[13:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like to suggest that we add another point defining something like: “3. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly elections”. This amendment would allow us touse STV if the RA is using STV, and other methods if the RA moves methods, etc.
[13:08] Rose Springvale: does STV work in a single candidate race though?
[13:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no idea
[13:08] Rose Springvale: lol
[13:08] Pip Torok strongly agrees
[13:08] Rose Springvale: okay..
[13:08] Rose Springvale: do you want to vote on this separately or as a group?
[13:08] Cindy Ecksol: I second gwyn’s amendment
[13:09] Arria Perreault: separate
[13:09] Rose Springvale: okay with the commission ?
[13:09] Pip Torok: separate
[13:09] Arria Perreault: aoption A or B, then the whole
[13:09] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:09] Cindy Ecksol: oh….yes, we DO have to vote on A or B….
[13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes we do
[13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:09] Cindy Ecksol: otherwise bill is not exactly valid
[13:09] Rose Springvale: and 4 needs to be separte too i think
[13:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no
[13:10] Cindy Ecksol disagrees on #4
[13:10] Arria Perreault: what is 4?
[13:10] Rose Springvale: stv
[13:10] Solomon Mosely: i dont see ahy there is only one week of campaigning
[13:10] Rose Springvale: lets go back to order, we’ll get confused
[13:10] Rose Springvale: okay, solomon, is that the point you wanted to raise? you have the floor
[13:11] Solomon Mosely: yes, well one. i am in favor of the 12 month terms.
[13:11] Solomon Mosely: that makes sense, there is so much to do, and things tend to take a while in here
[13:12] Rose Springvale: finished?
[13:12] Solomon Mosely: i think that 2 terms in a row should be left as an option, but its not a deal breaker for me
[13:12] Solomon Mosely: i just dont see why when the candidates submit two weeks before polls close, they cant start campaigning then
[13:12] Solomon Mosely: and the direct election is a no-brainer. it’s how it should be
[13:13] Keila Forager: I agree Sol
[13:13] Solomon Mosely: done
[13:13] Rose Springvale: thank you
[13:13] Rose Springvale: Arria is next i think
[13:13] Solomon Mosely nods
[13:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn signs in to the queue to answer Sol in turn
[13:14] Arria Perreault: I just want to be sure of the procedure of vote: I am fine with A or B, then 1-3, the 4 separate
[13:14] Rose Springvale: sound reasonable Gwyn?
[13:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: point of order, there is not 1-3 + 4
[13:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but 1-2 + 3
[13:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:14] Rose Springvale: and yes, i’m sorry, should have given you time to reply to sol
[13:14] Arria Perreault: and 4?
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there is no 4.
[13:15] Rose Springvale: stv is 3?
[13:15] Arria Perreault: limitation of mandate is 3?
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: shall I copy & paste again? Yes STV is 3
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’ll copy and paste again — it’s better
[13:15] Rose Springvale: better to be clear, i agree
[13:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #2 — Chancellor Election Act
1. (Option A) Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule. The new term will start on February 1.
1. (Option B) Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaign
[13:15] Arria Perreault: where is the limitation of mandate?
[13:16] Arria Perreault: can you make a notecard with the whole?
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule. The new terms will start on February 1 and July 1.
2. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly elections”. This amendment would allow us touse STV if the RA is.
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bad copy & paste
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly elections
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [just that≠
[13:17] Rose Springvale: term limits aern’t part of this bill correct?
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: THEN there is a new bill, to be proposed and discussed AFTERWARDS.
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
[13:17] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:17] Rose Springvale: thanks.
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They’re not. My mistake. I withdrew the motion
[13:17] Rose Springvale: does that answer your question Arria?
[13:17] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:17] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:17] Rose Springvale: okay, gwyn do you want to reply to sol?
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I may just comments something to SOl….
[13:18] Rose Springvale: ;0
[13:18] Rose Springvale: ;0)
[13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The always insane calculations of the campaigning times give me a headache every time,
[13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but it’s supposed to be aligned precisely with what the RA has now.
[13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The difference being that the RA laws are spread among 3 different places (constitution +2 laws I think)
[13:18] Arria Perreault has an other dummy question about 3
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: while I TRIED to put the same words for the Chancellor
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I made a mistake,
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s not intentional
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I believe that teh RA *now* only has 1 week for campaigning,
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 1 week for open pools
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *polls
[13:19] Cindy Ecksol: ok…I’m not seeing the difference between 1A and 1B
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh oh
[13:20] Cindy Ecksol: isn’t this supposed to be about term lenght?
[13:20] Arria Perreault: 6 oe 12 months
[13:20] Cindy Ecksol: either six months or 12 months?
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhhh 1B has ity to adjust or extend the election schedule. The new terms will start on February 1 and July 1.
[13:20] Solomon Mosely: i was just wondering why campaigning couldn’t begin when the SC posted hte names
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: while 1A has ity to adjust or extend the election schedule. The new terms will start on February 1.
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: eeek
[13:20] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:20] Cindy Ecksol: ok…never mind! it’s just confusing as worded….
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what’s wrong with my copy & paste today????
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Suggestion
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s remove “The new terms…”
[13:20] Cindy Ecksol: it doesn’t say “six months” or “12 months”
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then we don’t have a problem
[13:21] Arria Perreault: I agree with Cindy
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And move it to the (yet to be proposed ) Bill #3
[13:21] Cindy Ecksol: it’s in the last sentence….where you specify JUST Feb 1 or Feb 1 and July 1
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll be fine in deleting that sentence!
[13:21] Cindy Ecksol: move we vote on 1A vs. 1B
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: One less problem hehe
[13:21] Cindy Ecksol: without changing the text
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok wait
[13:22] Cindy Ecksol: as long as everyone understands this is a vote for either 6 month term or 12 month term
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh. Nothing like thinking
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I prefer actually that to be on Bill #3
[13:22] Cindy Ecksol: welll…what then, gwyn?
[13:22] Cindy Ecksol: that’s what it SAYS!
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I suggest that there are NO options on Bill #1
[13:22] Rose Springvale: the term? so what are we voting on with this Gwyn?
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: #2
[13:22] Cindy Ecksol: #2 without 1A or 1B?
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be a happier person if a) I had copy & paste working and b) no typos
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry
[13:22] Rose Springvale: is this a change in law?
[13:23] Rose Springvale: or does it mirror the existing
[13:23] Cindy Ecksol: are you asking us to amend?
[13:23] Arria Perreault: I second your proposal, Gwyn
[13:23] Cindy Ecksol: lol!!!
[13:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me TRY, just TRY, to get it CORRECTLY copied and pasted WITHOUT the options.
[13:23] Rose Springvale: please
[13:23] Pip Torok: please!
[13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #2 — Chancellor Election Act
1. Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
2. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
3. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Repr
[13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: esentative Assembly election.
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: See, much easier.
[13:25] Arria Perreault still have a dummy question for 3
[13:25] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[13:25] Rose Springvale: arria
[13:26] Arria Perreault: what happens if the RA changes the methodology for the election of the RA and that this method is not compatible with the election of a single person?
[13:26] Rose Springvale: gwyn?
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point
[13:26] Keila Forager: But it needs to be, what if there needs to be a by-election for just one RA seat?
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we have no choice but toe xplicitly name a method. I agree.
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria is right
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, STV works for that, keila…
[13:27] Rose Springvale: lets see what else comes up while we ponder that. Cindy?
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But there MIGHT be methods that do NOT work.
[13:27] Cindy Ecksol: Two things:
a. you forgot the last plank as posted above:
4. This bill is null and void if the Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act is not passed.
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true!
[13:27] Cindy Ecksol: b. I do not think that it is appropriate to pass this without specifying a term. We can vote term limits (the next bill) without specifying a term if we like.
[13:27] Keila Forager: Then they shouldn’t be used for RA either, in case of a one seat by-election
[13:28] Cindy Ecksol: but term needs to be specified here.
[13:28] Rose Springvale: finished Cindy?
[13:28] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I think term limits can vary with term duration
[13:28] Cindy Ecksol: yes, thanks.
[13:28] Cindy Ecksol: yes, mikelo, they can….
[13:28] Rose Springvale: Keila did you want to speak?
[13:28] Cindy Ecksol: and truthfully, I’d like to put the term limits in here too so we don’t have
[13:28] Keila Forager: no..that was it
[13:28] Cindy Ecksol: “bill proliferation”
[13:28] Rose Springvale: thank you
[13:28] Rose Springvale: Mikelo?
[13:29] Mikelo Serevi: Well, I also find it confusing to vote on different parts, although discussing in parts has been helpful
[13:29] Rose Springvale: anyone who hasn’t spoken, then i have a comment and will turn back to gwyn
[13:29] Mikelo Serevi: I think term duration and limits should be chosen together
[13:29] Rose Springvale: that’s what we determined after last week
[13:30] Rose Springvale: sorry, didn’t mean to cut you off
[13:30] Rose Springvale: finished?
[13:30] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[13:30] Rose Springvale: anyone else?
[13:30] Rose Springvale: okay, my comment is that i don’t believe that a single seat election is appropriate for STV, because the campaign strategy will simply be, only vote for one
[13:31] Rose Springvale: i think it is more clear and will stand the test of changes in RA election methodology to be simple majority
[13:31] Rose Springvale: STV is confusing….we’ve had no volunteers to explain it
[13:31] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[13:31] Rose Springvale: for the chancellor election where there can be only one winner, seems crazy to me
[13:31] Rose Springvale: done. Cindy
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: Rose, STV with just choosing one
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn signs in for the queue too
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: is exactly the same as a “majority vote”
[13:32] Mikelo Serevi: raises hand
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: so no worries….
[13:32] Rose Springvale: done cindy?
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: we can do whatever RA does and not have more legislation to confuse
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: done
[13:32] Cindy Ecksol: thanks
[13:32] Rose Springvale: gwyn?
[13:33] Pip Torok agrees with cindy
[13:33] Rose Springvale: Gwyn are you here?
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes soprry
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m a slwotyper!
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I believe that perhaps the commision was a bit premature in trying to avoid the discussion of term duration and limits
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And STV certainly works for one seat, BUT…
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Arria is right, we might change it to a method that doesn’t work for one seat
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d suggest that we merge Bill #2 and Bill #3
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and discuss it all lol
[13:35] Rose Springvale: are you finished for now?
[13:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, I have a proposed rewrite of everything, if people are fine with it ))
[13:35] Arria Perreault: if we vote some articles separetely
[13:35] Cindy Ecksol: I second Gwyn’s suggestion
[13:36] Arria Perreault: the way we elect the chancellor would work with 6 months and 12 months terms
[13:36] Rose Springvale: I agree Arria, but lets see what the group feels. all in favor of amending the bill under consideration to combine 2 and 3 (process adn term)
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: anyone objects dramatically against it? If so, I’ll withdraw the motion *again* (hey, this is fun!!) and am prepared to submit a new one!
[13:36] Arria Perreault: the way we elect the chancellor doesn’t interfer with terms limits
[13:36] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[13:36] Mikelo Serevi: I agree
[13:36] Pip Torok: aye
[13:36] Rose Springvale: with the motion or arria mikelo
[13:36] Rose Springvale: we are in vote now
[13:37] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:37] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:37] Keila Forager: aye
[13:37] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:37] Timo Gufler: aye
[13:37] Solomon Mosely: aye
[13:37] Rose Springvale: thank you, motion carries
[13:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok!
[13:38] Rose Springvale: gwyn will you post the text we are working on please
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so…. I withdraw Bill #2 and #3
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and present a new combination of both
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (it still has the options in)
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here it goes, cross your fingers….
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bill #2 — Chancellor Election Act
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. (Option A) Chancellors are elected for a 12-month term and cannot hold two terms in succession.
(Option B) Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term and can hold at most two terms in succession.
(Option C) Chancellors are elected for a 12-month term.
(Option D) Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2. (Option A) Term starts simultaneously with the Representative Assembly February term.
(Option B) Chancellor terms start simultaneously with the Representative Assembly terms.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly election or Single-Transfer Vote if the current method for the Representative Aseembly election does not work for single candidate elections.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 6. This bill is null and void if the Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act is not passed.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew !
[13:39] Rose Springvale: yay!
[13:39] Cindy Ecksol: yay!
[13:39] Cindy Ecksol: that’s it!
[13:39] Rose Springvale: okay
[13:40] Rose Springvale: discussion open again…
[13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lots of options, woot
[13:40] Cindy Ecksol: are we ready to start working through voting for the options?
[13:40] Cindy Ecksol: I’m about talked out…..
[13:40] Cindy Ecksol: and need to go to the farmer’s market
[13:40] Rose Springvale: probably the easiest is to have the commission propose one
[13:40] Rose Springvale: then let us discuss that set.. amending if necessary
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: Are the C,D options without term limits?
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: I´ve a question to No 3
[13:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly, MikelO!
[13:41] Rose Springvale: go ahead Lilith
[13:41] Lilith Ivory: are this the same rules as for running for RA?
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: means you have to be in the CDS for a while and pay your tier
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: or just ANY citizen?
[13:42] Mikelo Serevi: I would assume so, lilith, but good point
[13:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Lilith, to the best of my knowledge… yes! If there is any mistake that you have found, please let’s correct it. The commission intention is that the rules are exactly the same, yes.
[13:42] Lilith Ivory: good
[13:42] Rose Springvale: i think the election rules apply to any elected office… delia?
[13:42] Delia Lake: it doesn’t say that
[13:42] Rose Springvale: kk, thanks
[13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should we add 7. All further legislation applicable to elections will also apply to the Chancellor election.
[13:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just to make sure?
[13:43] Rose Springvale: or maybe
[13:44] Mikelo Serevi: For option B, does it mean that a person would have to take at least one term off before applying again?
[13:44] Rose Springvale: any citizen eligible to run for the Representative Assemply may run for chancellor
[13:44] Mikelo Serevi: Good idea, gwyn
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Rose!
[13:44] Delia Lake: people declaring for RA have to be citizens in good standing, qualified to vote at the deadline for declaration
[13:45] Rose Springvale: yes
[13:45] Rose Springvale: i don’t mind a catch all number 7 too, but this will come up
[13:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so…. 7. Any other legislation applicable to candidate eligibility and elections in general will also apply to the Chancellor election.
[13:45] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, maybe it’s dangerous. If we reinstaure the 10% rule for the RA, it would be appropriate for the Chancellor (just an example)
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hm!
[13:46] Arria Perreault: it would NOT be *
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[13:46] Rose Springvale: we can carver that out if we reinstate that
[13:46] Arria Perreault: single election are special cases
[13:46] Rose Springvale: no need to anticipate all the changes that might be made in the future, let the legislature then deal with the effect?
[13:46] Delia Lake: it would make sense to require that anyone running be a citizen for 30 days at least
[13:46] Arria Perreault: it was just an example, Rose
[13:47] Rose Springvale: so you’d have no catch all Arria?
[13:47] Lilith Ivory: I agree Delia
[13:47] Pip Torok agrees with Delia
[13:47] Rose Springvale: (i think the law says 28 days lol)
[13:47] Arria Perreault: I agree with Delia
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 28 days for consistency
[13:48] Keila Forager: 28 days is 4 weeks
[13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I fear that we might have to start listing things from an infinte number of bills ….
[13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it was a mess to integrate 2
[13:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’d prefer a catch-all for now, and handle exceptions if and when they occur.
[13:49] Mikelo Serevi: That seems safe enough
[13:49] Rose Springvale: along with the qualification language or alone Gwyn?
[13:50] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:50] Delia Lake: actually the length of time should include at least 1 mandatory tier payment period
[13:50] Keila Forager: raises hand
[13:51] Rose Springvale: go ahead Keila
[13:51] Delia Lake: otherwise we could have candidtates who would run out if not elected
[13:51] Pip Torok: good point
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d really have something like: “7. Any other legislation applicable to candidate eligibility and elections in general will also apply to the Chancellor election.” We could add: “unless explicitly excluded” I suppose…
[13:51] Rose Springvale: given the statutory timeing, i think it has one Delia
[13:51] Keila Forager: What about a commision to look at the election legistation and make sure it is worded to encompass all CDS elections
[13:51] Rose Springvale: that’s what this one is
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re rtrying, Keila
[13:51] Keila Forager: then it wouldn’t have to be a part of separate election bills
[13:52] Rose Springvale: i thnk gwyns language works, but i’d add that part about eligible to run for RA as well
[13:52] Rose Springvale: our tier is always due on the 7th of the month now, and our election timing will be mid month due to the 168 hour rule
[13:52] Keila Forager: I guess I mean a bill or law that says who is eligible to run
[13:52] Cindy Ecksol: lol! I’m thinking we need a commission to review any legislation that comes out of commissions :-0
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that was suggested once!
[13:53] Rose Springvale: i’d entertain a motion on this legislation, seems like we are pretty much talked out, and we have time for a vote before we adjourn if you want
[13:53] Keila Forager: Seems to me it would be easier than trying to add to more than one bill
[13:53] Mikelo Serevi: yes a commission review board!!! (jk)
[13:53] Cindy Ecksol: move to close discussion and vote
[13:53] Cindy Ecksol: at least on #1
[13:53] Lilith Ivory: second
[13:54] Rose Springvale: lets see the final language of the bill.. .only the whole bill is on the floor
[13:54] Pip Torok: second
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Wait …
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah
[13:54] Cindy Ecksol: rose, we can’t adopt the WHOLE bill…
[13:54] Rose Springvale: you have to choose options lol
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: what about the options?
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: righT!!
[13:54] Rose Springvale: gwyn propose one
[13:54] Cindy Ecksol: have to pare it down
[13:54] Rose Springvale: one set
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I propose ….
[13:54] Rose Springvale: your choice!
[13:54] Cindy Ecksol counts “Eeny meeny….”
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. (Option A) Chancellors are elected for a 12-month term and cannot hold two terms in succession.
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and of course 2. (Option A) Term starts simultaneously with the Representative Assembly February term.
[13:55] Cindy Ecksol: second
[13:55] Rose Springvale: wait
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you :^)
[13:55] Rose Springvale: is taht all you want to vote on?
[13:55] Rose Springvale: for now?
[13:55] Cindy Ecksol: no….the rest of the bill too.
[13:55] Cindy Ecksol: no options in the rest
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[13:55] Keila Forager: what about the rest of the options?
[13:55] Rose Springvale: lets have it all posted please, we have other language changes
[13:55] Arria Perreault: but separately
[13:55] Mikelo Serevi: Could we take an informal vote on which option to include?
[13:55] Rose Springvale: no one type but gwyn for a moment
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I suppose we can vote on each possible combination lol
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, i was thinking on that, mikelo
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if that’s ok….
[13:56] Arria Perreault: we said we will vote separately
[13:56] Rose Springvale: okay
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: A-D seems to be the main point
[13:56] Rose Springvale: lets talk about options for five minutes
[13:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok
[13:56] Rose Springvale: and term limits
[13:56] Rose Springvale: just tell what you think, if you have an opinion please
[13:57] Mikelo Serevi: I think there needs to be some limitation of terms
[13:57] Rose Springvale: thanks. do you like 6 or 12 month?
[13:57] Lilith Ivory: I like 2 terms a 6month best
[13:57] Mikelo Serevi: I did have a question about B, does it mean a person can take a term off, then apply again?
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My reason for supporting Option A is that historically, a Chancellor is always in power 12 months, but then it’s really too much demanding them to stay even longer… so Option A is actually implementing in law what’s happening anyway.
[13:57] Keila Forager: Ilike option B
[13:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and ye, Mikelo
[13:57] Arria Perreault: I am in favor of short terms and against terms limits, so the citizen choose how much time a chancellor stays
[13:58] Rose Springvale: others?
[13:58] Mikelo Serevi: I like 6 month terms, to match the RA terms
[13:58] Arria Perreault: he/she has to be good to stay one year ;_)
[13:58] Lilith Ivory: two years are a pretty long time in SL
[13:58] Pip Torok: I’m with Arria and Mikelo
[13:58] Rose Springvale: they don’t agree pip
[13:58] Rose Springvale: arria wants no limits, mikelo does
[13:58] Pip Torok: oh!!
[13:59] Lilith Ivory giggles
[13:59] Arria Perreault: we both want 6 months terms
[13:59] Solomon Mosely: why does it matter to match the ra terms?
[13:59] Rose Springvale: i like 12 month terms, dont’ care about limits
[13:59] Pip Torok: (sorry … meant Lilth and mikelo … damn my eyes)
[13:59] Cindy Ecksol: 12 months terms, term limits.
[13:59] Rose Springvale: because it is hard to get a good program going in 6 months
[13:59] Arria Perreault: my argument is: the chancellor has to be good to stay. it’s better than removing him after 6 months
[14:00] Rose Springvale: no idea how we resolve this lol
[14:00] Solomon Mosely: yes, exactly, so thats why 12 is better, forget the ra terms
[14:00] Mikelo Serevi: It seems more cohesive to have RA and chancellor elected at the same time
[14:00] Solomon Mosely: what?
[14:00] Rose Springvale: okay.
[14:00] Rose Springvale: we’ve got clear lack of consensus
[14:00] Rose Springvale: and a motion by the commission
[14:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[14:00] Arria Perreault: a new RA will maybe start by removing the chancellor
[14:00] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[14:01] Keila Forager: if 12 months chancellor elected with one RA and if 6 months, elected with every RA
[14:01] Cindy Ecksol: maybe they will arria….but maybe not.
[14:01] Rose Springvale: so i think we will go ahead and vote on the proposal on the floor
[14:01] Rose Springvale: does anyone want to second?
[14:01] Cindy Ecksol: the US Congress doesn’t remove the US President every 2 years
[14:01] Arria Perreault: yes, but removing is a rude process
[14:01] Arria Perreault: the CDS RA did once
[14:02] Cindy Ecksol: it has been seconded…by me
[14:02] Rose Springvale: okay. lets call the vote…
[14:02] Pip Torok: please specify choices!
[14:02] Rose Springvale: the motion on the floor is for single 12 month terms
[14:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: just on the term duration & limit, right?
[14:02] Rose Springvale: yes
[14:02] Arria Perreault: do we vote article by article?
[14:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok!
[14:02] Mikelo Serevi: yes, what are we voting for?
[14:02] Rose Springvale: just on this part
[14:02] Cindy Ecksol: no, the whole bill….
[14:03] Cindy Ecksol: can’t vote on “just part” or we could have voted 1A/B/C/D
[14:03] Rose Springvale: this only needs a simple majority
[14:03] Rose Springvale: the commission put on the floor only this one part
[14:03] Mikelo Serevi: We could wind up passing more than one if we vote one at a time
[14:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: for now
[14:03] Rose Springvale: gwyn can you repaste?
[14:03] Rose Springvale: let her type for a moment
[14:03] Keila Forager: I agree Mikelo
[14:03] Rose Springvale: only one proposal is on the floor
[14:03] Arria Perreault: sorry, I don’t understand the whole
[14:03] Cindy Ecksol: WHAT proposal???
[14:04] Rose Springvale: if you will be patient, gwyn will post it
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: I thought I was seconding gwyn’s bill with 1A and 2A
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: if not, I withdraw y second
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. Vote on: 1. (Option A) Chancellors are elected for a 12-month term and cannot hold two terms in succession.
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and of course 2. (Option A) Term starts simultaneously with the Representative Assembly February term.
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s what I had posted!
[14:04] Rose Springvale: thank you
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: and the rest ofthe bill>????
[14:04] Rose Springvale: is your second applicable cindy?
[14:04] Rose Springvale: no more now
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: no.
[14:04] Rose Springvale: just this
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: not unless the rest of the bill is included
[14:04] Rose Springvale: okay anyone else want to second?
[14:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It comes next after this
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: this is not complete
[14:04] Cindy Ecksol: cannot vote on it separately
[14:05] Rose Springvale: we agreed to do it piece by piece… sigh
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh. I wonder if this is also a cultural thing
[14:05] Mikelo Serevi: If we assume the rest of it is included, on this case
[14:05] Rose Springvale: we need to keep it clear
[14:05] Keila Forager: What if both pass?
[14:05] Cindy Ecksol: if we’re doing it piece by piece, let’s vote on 1A/B/C/D
[14:05] Rose Springvale: no no no
[14:05] Arria Perreault: if we say no, the other option is valid?
[14:05] Solomon Mosely: i second
[14:05] Cindy Ecksol: etc….
[14:05] Rose Springvale: the rest of the bill .. thank you solomno
[14:05] Rose Springvale: we have a motion that has been seconded
[14:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (2 A follows by 1A; you can’t have 2B with 1A)
[14:05] Cindy Ecksol: right….
[14:05] Rose Springvale: the balance of the bill will be next
[14:05] Rose Springvale: for now
[14:05] Arria Perreault: or we loose all the work on the other articles?
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: ok….fine.
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: go for it.
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if you say no, you have topropose a different motion
[14:06] Arria Perreault: please, one question
[14:06] Rose Springvale: please vote on 12 month single terms
[14:06] Rose Springvale: all in favor, say aye
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: problem is that this will not create a bill…it’s just a “preference option”
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: we need to amend to make a bill
[14:06] Rose Springvale: no cindy, this is a bill
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, just a preferemce option)
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: …which is a bill
[14:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[14:06] Cindy Ecksol: see what I mean??
[14:07] Rose Springvale: no more ayes?
[14:07] Cindy Ecksol: it is meaningless by itslef….or dangerous!
[14:07] Rose Springvale: cindy pleae
[14:07] Cindy Ecksol: abstain
[14:07] Rose Springvale: we have to move forward somehow!
[14:07] Arria Perreault: nay
[14:07] Pip Torok: abstain
[14:07] Rose Springvale: other votes?
[14:07] Timo Gufler: aye
[14:07] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:08] Mikelo Serevi: it wasn’t really a bill…
[14:08] Rose Springvale: so your vote is nay?
[14:08] Keila Forager: sorry, nay
[14:08] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[14:08] Rose Springvale: motion fails
[14:08] Pip Torok: can i change my vote to nay?
[14:08] Cindy Ecksol: I have a motion
[14:08] Pip Torok: (too late … ok)
[14:08] Timo Gufler:
[14:08] Rose Springvale: okay
[14:08] Rose Springvale: cindy
[14:08] Solomon Mosely: and real quick, this is on 1a and 2a?
[14:09] Cindy Ecksol: I’d like to introduce Gwyn’s bill COMPLETE with 1A and 2A…..
[14:09] Cindy Ecksol: plus 3-7
[14:09] Cindy Ecksol: do I have a second?
[14:09] Rose Springvale: please paste it all
[14:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and possibly 8, we forgot something.
[14:09] Rose Springvale: you are out of order cindy
[14:09] Rose Springvale: tha’ts my job
[14:09] Rose Springvale: please paste what you are proposing
[14:09] Cindy Ecksol: workiing on it …sec
[14:10] Rose Springvale: for those of you wondering, this will again be the 12 month, term limit option
[14:10] Delia Lake looks around for a softer seat….
[14:10] Rose Springvale: with all the other language attachec
[14:11] Mikelo Serevi raises hand
[14:11] Rose Springvale: yes?
[14:11] Mikelo Serevi: Could we vote our preference instead of aye/nay?
[14:11] Rose Springvale: if someon else has another motion, first one on the screen with language and a second gets the vote first
[14:11] Cindy Ecksol: ok….here we go….
[14:11] Rose Springvale: we did that mikelo
[14:11] Cindy Ecksol: darn, won’t paste….
[14:11] Keila Forager: We did?
[14:12] Mikelo Serevi: well, we discussed it
[14:12] Cindy Ecksol: have to do in sections….
[14:12] Rose Springvale: no consensus
[14:12] Pip Torok wd find that helpful is its practical
[14:12] Cindy Ecksol: Bill #2 — Chancellor Election Act
[13:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. (Option A) Chancellors are elected for a 12-month term and cannot hold two terms in succession.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2. (Option A) Term starts simultaneously with the Representative Assembly February term.
[14:12] Mikelo Serevi: Well, it could be a way of choosing which option to include
[14:12] Rose Springvale: let cindy paste it all
[14:12] Rose Springvale: we choose via motions
[14:13] Cindy Ecksol: [13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[14:13] Cindy Ecksol: 5. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly election or Single-Transfer Vote if the current method for the Representative Aseembly election does not work for single candidate elections.
[13:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 6. This bill is null and void if the Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act is not passed.
7. Any other legislation applicable to candidate eligibility and elections in general will also apply to the Chancellor election.”
8. In the event that the elected Chancellor resigns after (less than half the term), a citizen who fills that term will be limited to that term plus one additional term.
[14:13] Cindy Ecksol: ok, that’s all of it…
[14:13] Cindy Ecksol: doesn’t fit in one paste
[14:13] Rose Springvale: do we have a second?
[14:13] Pip Torok: second
[14:14] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[14:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[14:14] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[14:14] Arria Perreault: nay
[14:14] Pip Torok: nay
[14:14] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[14:14] Keila Forager: nay
[14:14] Timo Gufler: nay
[14:14] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:15] Rose Springvale: motion fails
[14:15] Arria Perreault: I have a motion
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[14:15] Rose Springvale: thank you
[14:15] Rose Springvale: go ahead, please give her time to completely post
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: ok…out of time, I ust leave
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: 7 day vote, please
[14:15] Rose Springvale: sigh
[14:15] Cindy Ecksol: bye!
[14:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye
[14:16] Arria Perreault: bye
[14:16] Timo Gufler: bye bye
[14:16] Arria Perreault: 1. Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term and can hold .
2. Chancellor terms start simultaneously with the Representative Assembly terms.
[14:17] Arria Perreault: + 3-8
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok I second that too
[14:17] Pip Torok: ??
[14:17] Rose Springvale: wait
[14:17] Rose Springvale: 1. is not complete
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah… true
[14:17] Pip Torok: exactly
[14:17] Arria Perreault: 1. Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term.
[14:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly. I second that amendment.
[14:18] Rose Springvale: okay
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: copy & paste sucks
[14:18] Mikelo Serevi: Not a good copy/paste day
[14:18] Rose Springvale: all in favor? this is no term limits, 6 month elections
[14:18] Pip Torok: I need the complete motion in front of me
[14:18] Arria Perreault: ok
[14:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins @ Pip
[14:18] Arria Perreault: I paste
[14:18] Arria Perreault: 1. Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term.
[14:18] Solomon Mosely: nay
[14:19] Arria Perreault: 2. Chancellor terms start simultaneously with the Representative Assembly terms.
[14:19] Arria Perreault: 3. Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
[14:19] Arria Perreault: 4. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[14:19] Arria Perreault: 5. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly election or Single-Transfer Vote if the current method for the Representative Aseembly election does not work for single candidate elections.
[14:20] Arria Perreault: 6. This bill is null and void if the Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act is not passed.
[14:20] Arria Perreault: 7. Any other legislation applicable to candidate eligibility and elections in general will also apply to the Chancellor election
[14:20] Rose Springvale: before we vote
[14:20] Rose Springvale: oh sorry
[14:20] Rose Springvale: 8.
[14:20] Arria Perreault: 8. In the event that the elected Chancellor resigns after (less than half the term), a citizen who fills that term will be limited to that term plus one additional term.
[14:20] Rose Springvale: thank you
[14:20] Arria Perreault: done
[14:20] Rose Springvale: before we vote, i’ll correct my error
[14:21] Pip Torok: (thank you, Arria!:)
[14:21] Rose Springvale: the vote on the last election has not officially failed until the 7 day votes are counted. I’ll register my vote as yay on that
[14:21] Rose Springvale: but lets proceed to vote on this motion so we will know if either passes by next week
[14:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, true. However, subsequent motions that get voted “aye” will override the previous one.
[14:22] Rose Springvale: yes
[14:22] Rose Springvale: so
[14:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which might be fun to watch in 7 days
[14:22] Rose Springvale: hehe
[14:22] Rose Springvale: so
[14:22] Rose Springvale: 6 month, no term limits
[14:22] Rose Springvale: all in favor
[14:22] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:22] Solomon Mosely: nay
[14:22] Lilith Ivory: nay
[14:22] Keila Forager: Nay
[14:22] Pip Torok: aye
[14:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye (hehe — to be honest, I don’t really care about that…)
[14:22] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:22] Solomon Mosely: nay
[14:22] Timo Gufler: aye
[14:22] Rose Springvale: lol
[14:22] Rose Springvale: only one vote sol
[14:23] Solomon Mosely: did i say nay?
[14:23] Solomon Mosely: twice?
[14:23] Solomon Mosely: nay?
[14:23] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:23] Mikelo Serevi: d’ oh
[14:23] Rose Springvale: we have 5 in favor, 4 opposed
[14:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, you did say nay twice
[14:23] Rose Springvale: wiat
[14:24] Rose Springvale: i abstain so whatever that makes the count lol
[14:24] Arria Perreault: did Pip vote?
[14:24] Pip Torok: yes
[14:24] Timo Gufler: yes he did
[14:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, he voted aye
[14:24] Keila Forager: he did
[14:24] Rose Springvale: do we want to propose the last motion in case neither of these pass?
[14:24] Rose Springvale: then we can be finished
[14:25] Delia Lake is wondering if this version means that candidates for Chancellor do not need to be citizens or did she miss something in the crash………
[14:25] Rose Springvale: or shall we roll that to next week?
[14:25] Keila Forager: Sure I have a motion
[14:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 6 month terms, with 2 limits?
[14:25] Rose Springvale: okay keila
[14:25] Keila Forager: (Option B) Chancellors are elected for a 6-month term and can hold at most two terms in succession.
(Option B) Chancellor terms start simultaneously with the Representative Assembly terms.
[14:25] Mikelo Serevi: I think the body of the bill is identical in all cases
[14:25] Keila Forager: 3. Any citizen may become a candidate by declaring themselves by a message to the Dean of the Scientific Council, two weeks before the voting booths open. On the next day, all applicants will be listed by the Dean of the Scientific Council, and campaigning begins one week before the voting booths open. Elections shall be held over a 168 hour period beginning at noon SLT on the Saturday before the 16th of the month prior to the new Chancellor taking office. In the event of a server outage which prevents citizens from casting ballots and which lasts more than 12 hours, the Dean of the Scientific Council has the authority to adjust or extend the election schedule.
4. In case the Chancellor leaves office or is removed from it mid-term, a special Chancellor by-election will be called for by the Scientific Council which will open new applications on the day notice was given and close applications after a week.
[14:25] Keila Forager: 5. Voting methodology will follow the same method as for the Representative Assembly election or Single-Transfer Vote if the current method for the Representative Aseembly election does not work for single candidate elections.
6. This bill is null and void if the Chancellor Direct Election Constitutional Amendment Act is not passed.
7. Any other legislation applicable to candidate eligibility and elections in general will also apply to the Chancellor election.”
8. In the event that the elected Chancellor resigns after (less than half the term), a citizen who fills that term will be limited to that term plus one additional term.
[14:26] Keila Forager: done
[14:26] Rose Springvale: thank you keila
[14:26] Rose Springvale: this is six month terms, limited to two consecutive terms
[14:26] Rose Springvale: all in favor
[14:26] Keila Forager: aye
[14:26] Pip Torok: aye
[14:26] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:26] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[14:26] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:26] Timo Gufler: aye
[14:27] Solomon Mosely: AYE!
[14:27] Rose Springvale: wow
[14:27] Rose Springvale: we did it!
[14:27] Keila Forager: I should have gone first..hehe
[14:27] Rose Springvale: congratulations
[14:27] Pip Torok: eureka!
[14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow indeed! we could have saved 45 minutes!
[14:27] Arria Perreault:
[14:27] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[14:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Keila <3
[14:27] Rose Springvale: motion carries unanimously (adding my aye) at least here
[14:27] Keila Forager raises hand
[14:27] Rose Springvale: NOW could we have a motion to adjourn?
[14:28] Arria Perreault: motion to adjourn
[14:28] Rose Springvale: oh rats yes Keila?
[14:28] Pip Torok: so move
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Arria after Keila has her say
[14:28] Keila Forager: I understand there was a vote for direct chancellor elections
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah. yes.
[14:28] Keila Forager: and my vote is aye
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[14:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: great!!!
[14:28] Rose Springvale: thank you
[14:28] Keila Forager: done
[14:29] Rose Springvale: motion moved and seconded to adjourn all in favor
[14:29] Keila Forager: aye
[14:29] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:29] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:29] Pip Torok: aye
[14:29] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:29] Timo Gufler: aye!
[14:29] Rose Springvale: Thank you all, i know it was a tough meeting, and confusing, but this is not easy legislation. Big applause for gwyn for getting us through it
[14:29] Keila Forager: If that last one didn’t pass I was about to start shooting arrows..LOL
[14:29] Lilith Ivory: yay!
[14:29] Mikelo Serevi: Thx gwyn
[14:30] Keila Forager: Yes, thanks Gwyn..
[14:30] Arria Perreault applauds Gwyn
[14:30] Lilith Ivory applauds Gwyn

Permalink.

RA Meeting 18 September 2010

Transcript, RA meeting September 18, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Sep 18, 2010 11:33 am
[9:00] Rose Springvale: Thanks for coming everyone. We are open for citizens concerns… smiles
[9:00] Keila Forager: today we are going to learn to make stones , flower and a cap
[9:01] Rose Springvale: smiles a keila
[9:01] Rose Springvale: tempting!
[9:01] Rose Springvale: Rosie, thanks for all your work on Oktoberfest!
[9:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn is willing to learn
[9:01] Rose Springvale: we are on the record now btw
[9:01] Rosie Gray smiles: you’re very welcome
[9:01] Keila Forager: Yes Rosie, the marketplatz is awesome
[9:01] Rosie Gray: thanks Keila
[9:02] Rose Springvale: smiles. anyone have any concerns? I’ll note we are quorate now, so officially the meeting is open, As you know we transcript the meetings
[9:02] Rosie Gray: I have a concern
[9:03] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[9:03] Mikelo Serevi: oops, sorry kas, still rezzing
[9:03] Rosie Gray: just wondering why it’s so laggy here right now
[9:03] Kaseido Quandry: np!
[9:03] Rose Springvale: Ok Rosie. Hi Arria
[9:03] Rosie Gray: you can hardly walk
[9:03] Rose Springvale: SL is messy today.. i logged on with “no groups”
[9:03] Keila Forager: Oh, give me a minute and I can tell you Rosie..LOL When to a sim stats and performance class yesterday
[9:03] Kaseido Quandry:
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt: yes and I hope i don’t just loose all my clothes in this change.
[9:04] Rosie Gray: I think that’s only useful if you have the permissions to view them Keila
[9:04] Rose Springvale raises eyebrow…
[9:04] Keila Forager: Nope……
[9:04] Rose Springvale: you lose your clothes often do you Tor?
[9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[9:04] Mikelo Serevi: I heard phoenix can drop your clothes for you
[9:04] Tor Karlsvalt:
[9:05] Keila Forager: ctrl + shift +1
[9:05] Keila Forager: will give viewer and sim stats
[9:05] Rosie Gray: ah thanks!
[9:05] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:05] Rose Springvale: maybe Keila will have to give us all the short course
[9:06] Mikelo Serevi: I’m having some net problems today, so I’d like 7 day if I suddenly vanish
[9:06] Rose Springvale: any other concerns to address now?
[9:06] Keila Forager: and the sim is running at close to “full speed” , so it’s probably the viewer..at least it is mine
[9:06] Rose Springvale: ok Mikelo
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we legislate to abolish lag? hehe
[9:06] Rose Springvale: sure , but you can fight the implementation battle
[9:06] Tor Karlsvalt: second on that Gwyn
[9:06] Keila Forager: My class gave ideas to make it less
[9:07] Keila Forager: Will let you all know when the nexxt one is
[9:07] Pip Torok: ah… can I have y class notes then??!!
[9:07] Rose Springvale: i have some notecards that have been developed over time on that too.
[9:07] Mikelo Serevi: no more sexy hairs?
[9:07] Rosie Gray: eh?
[9:07] Mikelo Serevi: for the lag, er nm
[9:07] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn pretends not to have listened.
[9:08] Rose Springvale: i think it is the resize scripts that contributes to lag…. supposedly you can delete them, but most of us don’t
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the other hand, i’m looking fiward to *meshed* hair…
[9:08] Rose Springvale: my hair is meshed every morning….
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Rose… I have a lot of trouble deleting those resize scripts
[9:08] Keila Forager: You can have lag with out any scripts..but this is a discussion for another time..LOL
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Rose!
[9:08] Tor Karlsvalt: that is bad, but i think much of that is on your own computer
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Keila
[9:08] Rosie Gray: they are a terrible nuisance, and completely unnecessary
[9:08] Keila Forager: That was something I just learned
[9:09] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks Keila.
[9:09] Rose Springvale: Any other concerns of citizens? we’ll make a note to do some research on the lag perhaps
[9:09] Keila Forager: I can maybe arrange a class if you llike
[9:09] Pip Torok: does Gwyn have a blog?? )
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew… that would be a lot of homework…. some sims (CN, NFS…) would need to be totally rebuilt if we wished to limit lag…
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sometimes, pip
[9:10] Mikelo Serevi: I’ve found these sims to be mostly lag free, except at gatherings
[9:10] Tor Karlsvalt: well we should work on NFS.
[9:10] Keila Forager: Maybe , maybe not Gwyn
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should yes.
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: too many layers of alpha textures there!
[9:11] Keila Forager: It’s the size of the textures
[9:11] Pip Torok: “where 2 or 3 are gathered together, there you have lag! ….”
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Pip!
[9:11] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[9:11] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘CDS RA Agenda 9/18/10’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[9:11] Tor Karlsvalt: Pip I thought that was God.
[9:11] Keila Forager: get rid of the fog..
[9:11] muhammedyussif Wikinger: sorry
[9:11] Pip Torok: no that LL, Creator of LAG!
[9:11] Rose Springvale: smiles. if there are no other concerns, we’ll go on with the agenda…
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[9:12] Rose Springvale: Any additions or changes to the agenda? there were no 7 day issues from last meeting i don’t think
[9:12] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘Final Recommendations for the Election Commission’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have a question, Ms LRA…
[9:13] Rose Springvale: ok
[9:13] Mikelo Serevi: no, it was a short meeting, it seemed
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, one of the topics for today is about “Term Limits2
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought that had been settled already?
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or is that a new discussion?
[9:13] Rose Springvale: i think this was on the RA portion gwyn
[9:13] Rose Springvale: we settled chancellor
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH!
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m enlightened now, thanks
[9:14] Rose Springvale: and thank you for the segue… we’ll turn to the commission report, and you are up
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: already? ouchie
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn *flexes fingers*
[9:14] Rose Springvale: if you need time to refresh, we can come back
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, I was just joking lol
[9:15] Rose Springvale: smile
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, campaigning act, which has been tabled
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the commission did meet just on that topic
[9:15] Rose Springvale: do you have a notecard you’d like distributed on that one?
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… wait sure
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: good idea
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[9:16] Rose Springvale: the one in the box was the first draft i think
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[9:16] Rose Springvale: if you give it to me, i’ll put it here
[9:16] Rose Springvale: there*
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: version 2 is here – viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3100 but I’ll be happy to copy & paste it into a notecard
[9:16] Rose Springvale: go on, i’ll do it
[9:16] Keila Forager: yes please, if I open an outside link I’ll crash
[9:17] Pip Torok: (know the feeling, Keila … )
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Shared with Rose.
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is some initial blah blah,
[9:18] Rose Springvale: in the box.
[9:18] Rose Springvale:
[9:18] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘Election Commission on Campaigning Act – proposal 2’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is mostly to give the esteemed RA members a feeling that this was not one of the most consensual issues.
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: First… there are two opposing views, even on small groups:
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) No limits on campaigning shwatsoever
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Heavy restrictions, closely overseen
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s hard to write a proposal that takes these opposing views into account
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, solution 2 requires someone to oversee,
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AND it also requires someone to *enforce*
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It was felt that citizens participating in elections,
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: either RA or Exec,
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: might be biased…
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so we’d need a non-elected branch to oversee the campaigning.
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right now, we just have one: the SC.
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, our Dean has been clear that the role of campaigning overseing is NOT part of teh SC’s attributions as per teh Constitution.
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: To make things more complex,
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: some things like signs, respecting Covenants, etc. are clearly the province of the Executive
[9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it’s a mess hehe
[9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We finally came up with two suggestions.
[9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Formally invite the SC to meet with the RA and discuss boundaries and potential overlapping on roles,
[9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so that we could separate areas clearly
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) Suggest that either the SC does the overseeing/enforcement OR a future commission, duly appointed for that specific purpose.
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is, in a nutshell, a resumed version of what you have in the notecard
[9:23] Arria Perreault raises hand
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Plus the actual proposed text for the bill, of course…
[9:23] Rose Springvale: are you finished and ready for questions Gwyn?
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m finished for now…
[9:23] muhammedyussif Wikinger: much obliged
[9:24] Rose Springvale: okay. thanks. Arria?
[9:25] Arria Perreault: I am very curious to know the arguments of the people who wanted strong restrictions in campaigning in a place like CDS based on democratic rules
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Arria. Fair question!
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) Merchants. A very “dense” campaigning season would scare visitors away from shops.
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, yes, tourism would hurt too
[9:26] Keila Forager: what visitors..LOL
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 2) Fear of excessive spamming
[9:26] Solomon Mosely: lol
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins @ Keila.
[9:26] Tor Karlsvalt wonders who is here to be scared
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Don’t kill the messenger, I’m just forwarding the message
[9:26] Rose Springvale: smiles. Lets keep some order
[9:27] Arria Perreault: interesting … thank you
[9:27] Keila Forager: You are correct provided we had visitors and tourism to scare away
[9:27] Keila Forager: Sorry
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But yes, those two points were the ones most quoted. Under 2 is implied “people that will have access to ‘special’ groups and are able to spam, while other candidates might not, etc
[9:27] Tor Karlsvalt: ?
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There are a LOT of groups in the CDS, Tor, and not all are under government control.
[9:28] Rose Springvale: any other questions? (i have a comment too)
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: i have
[9:28] Rose Springvale: go on Tor
[9:28] Tor Karlsvalt: ok, more a comment
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: i really don’t think we should make rules that might not be enforced
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: and the enforcers may be the ones standing for elections
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: second
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: I don’t think spam is much of an issue
[9:29] Tor Karlsvalt: especially with the new viewer
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: most of my messages just fall to the bottom bar and are ususally forgotten
[9:30] Tor Karlsvalt: thats all
[9:30] Rose Springvale: thanks. Anyone else?
[9:30] Delia Lake raises her hand
[9:30] Rose Springvale: Delia, go ahead
[9:30] Arria Perreault raises hand again
[9:31] Delia Lake: a thought just occurred to me. it might or might not work
[9:31] Delia Lake: might it be possible for the CDS to purchase subscribomatic or some such non group announcement technique
[9:32] Keila Forager: Why not, everyone else has them..but it’s a subscription plan
[9:32] Delia Lake: then citizens who would want to get all the election campaign notices and info would get it but the rest of the non citizens in the CDS group would not
[9:32] Kaseido Quandry: it *would* enable creation of an “official channel” for the government
[9:32] Tor Karlsvalt: actually i like that idea
[9:32] Rosie Gray thinks that is a great idea
[9:32] Rose Springvale: not sure how that works though. Perhaps Communications could study that
[9:32] Keila Forager: yes..
[9:33] Kaseido Quandry: Happy to – it’s a good solution to a lot of issues, maybe
[9:33] Keila Forager: A channel for just election notices
[9:33] Pip Torok likes it too
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (small comment: that’s actually easy to develop, if we don’t want to spend any money buying it)
[9:33] Arria Perreault: me too
[9:33] Rose Springvale: I hate to see the official group go to subscribo. maybe better to do the events that way and keep the elections on the real group.
[9:33] Rose Springvale: because then anyone can subscribe without invitation
[9:34] Kaseido Quandry: well, that gets us right back to access and posting rights problems – but we can take that up in committee
[9:34] Rose Springvale: good idea though.
[9:34] Arria Perreault: I thought the candidates were not allowed to use the group notice
[9:34] Rose Springvale: that’s what we are discussion Arria
[9:34] Arria Perreault: for their campaing
[9:34] Rose Springvale: discussing*
[9:35] Rose Springvale: My comment is simply this … as a person who in the past has been charged with giving out official notices, we ALWAYS lose people when we start sending out multiple group notices in a day
[9:35] Rose Springvale: and if you will recall
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The current proposal doesn’t give them access.
[9:35] Pip Torok: is there a danger that a candidate wd flood the channel? or wd that be self-defeating?
[9:35] Rose Springvale: a couple of years ago there was a faction who got very agressive with campaigning, and many people complained
[9:35] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, I think it *would* be self-defeating – but the concern is collateral damage, as it were
[9:35] Arria Perreault: frankly, I think that debates and in-world meetings are the best solution. People can ask questions directly and get answers
[9:36] Keila Forager: I think it wouldn’t be self defeating as name recognition gets votes
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pip, yes, that argument has been brought: anyone doing excissve spamming would probably not be elected because it’s a self-defeating strategy… so, no need for special regulation, etc
[9:36] Arria Perreault: in the group, we have also people who are not citizen …
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true!
[9:36] Rose Springvale: keila, the experts agree with you. name recognition is a tried and true campaign technique
[9:37] Rose Springvale: other comments?
[9:37] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:37] Keila Forager: True , if you don’t “know ” a candidate, you will vote for the name you see the most
[9:37] Tor Karlsvalt: donno, look at Delaware
[9:37] Rose Springvale: arria has the floor
[9:38] Arria Perreault: I think that the point 2 is problematic and the management of the violations seem to me impossible
[9:38] Rose Springvale: how would you change it?
[9:39] Arria Perreault: I think we need a minimal law, mentionning only what is forbidden
[9:39] Arria Perreault: no room for appreciation
[9:39] Rose Springvale: how would you then enforce it?
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “spam” is forbidden, and so is limiting freedom of speech Only that hehe
[9:39] Arria Perreault: I would erase it and make a list of the things which are forbidden
[9:39] Arria Perreault: spam has to be defined
[9:40] Kaseido Quandry: good luck with that
[9:40] Arria Perreault: 10 or 100 notices?
[9:40] Rose Springvale: wow, that would be a long list
[9:40] Kaseido Quandry: that’ll just lead to violations of “no spam” that are in technical compliance
[9:40] Pip Torok hopes there’s a working definition of both “spam” and “free speech”…
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm. Defining spam. Well, we could use one open source tool that establish what is spam and what it isn’t using complex algorithms, metrics and heuristics…
[9:40] Arria Perreault: with this law, we can give to a branch the possibility to exclude candidates easely
[9:40] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:40] Kaseido Quandry: or we could use *common sense*
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with Kas.
[9:41] Kaseido Quandry: some things are not quantifialble
[9:41] Pip Torok agrees with common sense …
[9:41] Rose Springvale: I like the proposal, because it includes common sense, but also has some teeth for the people who will Royally abuse it
[9:41] Tor Karlsvalt hmmm, i think/me thinks common sense ain’t common
[9:41] Arria Perreault: can the excluded candidate a way to recourse?
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: also, the sensibility of what is allowed and what is not changes with time… so the list of “what is forbidden” would have to be constantly updated.
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh of course, Arria! We always have recourses in the CDS
[9:42] Rose Springvale: we are at time on our discussion, do we want to extend, or have a motion?
[9:42] Delia Lake raises her hand again
[9:42] Rose Springvale: one sec Delia
[9:42] Arria Perreault: can add this in point 3? (recourse)
[9:42] Arria Perreault: can we*
[9:43] Rose Springvale: first we need an extension on discussion.
[9:43] Arria Perreault: I propose we extend the time
[9:43] Pip Torok: seconded
[9:43] Rose Springvale: how long please
[9:43] Arria Perreault: 10 min
[9:44] Rose Springvale: motion to extend discussion 10 minutes, seconded. all in favor?
[9:44] Pip Torok: aye
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:44] muhammedyussif Wikinger: nay
[9:44] Keila Forager: nay
[9:44] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:44] Kaseido Quandry: nay
[9:44] Solomon Mosely: aye
[9:44] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[9:44] Solomon Mosely: aye aye aye gotta run, call me if a vote on anything comes up
[9:45] Rose Springvale: okay, i’ll vote aye. discussion extended for ten minutes.
[9:45] Rose Springvale: Delia is next
[9:45] Delia Lake: re enforcement and recourse
[9:45] Delia Lake: 1. the SC cannot be both police and court
[9:45] Arria Perreault: (I agree)
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (true!)
[9:46] Delia Lake: 2. recourse is certainly possible, but would the recourse be timely enough in the middle of a campaign or voting?
[9:46] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the problem lends itself to an open system, with few rules.
[9:47] muhammedyussif Wikinger: afk
[9:47] Tor Karlsvalt: we just will never be able to enforce rules like this.
[9:47] Keila Forager: agreed
[9:47] Arria Perreault: I agree too
[9:47] Rose Springvale: hm
[9:48] Arria Perreault: we need a minimal law, if we need one
[9:48] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe standards of conduct
[9:48] Arria Perreault: maybe the communication policy is enough for some points
[9:48] Rose Springvale: this is pretty minimal. What i hear you all saying is you want anything goes campaigns
[9:48] Keila Forager: Definitely need some guidelines with consequences
[9:48] Rose Springvale: which is fine for the people in this room, but try to remember some of our more flamboyant candidates
[9:49] Pip Torok feels that this is best driven by precedent ariring from actual preceived breaches
[9:49] Arria Perreault: I would like to know where are the limits: group notices or not for example
[9:49] Rose Springvale: gwyn, is that addressed in this proposal?
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[9:49] Tor Karlsvalt: who is going to count them?
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The text says that, Arria.
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – there is an initial collection of information
[9:49] Kaseido Quandry: I think that skill set is pretty widely dispersed in the CDS :p
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – this information gets posted as a group notice
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – besides that, candidates don’t have access to the groups EXCEPT if they want to announce events, which are handled throughb the usual channels (e.g. PIO)
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, this is a Zero Group Notice proposal
[9:50] Kaseido Quandry: so this gives candidates *less* access to the group notices than someone *not* running for office
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… it gives them the same access
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: i think notices have been opened up, no?
[9:51] Keila Forager: So they can send as many notices as they wish?
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry: Notices have been opened up
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They shouldn’t have neem, Tor!
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They have?
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh my
[9:51] Keila Forager: We all have access..
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: thought so
[9:51] Rose Springvale: long time ago gwyn
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: why?? lol
[9:51] Arria Perreault: I see a contradiction with the communication policy
[9:51] Keila Forager: Yep, I think 2 meetings ago
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry: freedom of speech, and all that
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry: and yes, Arria’s right
[9:52] Rose Springvale: what about
[9:52] Arria Perreault: it could be that candidates have less right than non-candidates
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, she’s right. This bill predates that kunacy
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *lunacy even
[9:52] Rose Springvale: if we adopt the essense of this as candidat gudelines
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I’m sorry, This doesn’t make any sense any longer.
[9:52] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe candidates could take a pledge to adhear to guildines
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the groups are open to any idiot, they should be open to candidates as well
[9:53] Tor Karlsvalt lol
[9:53] Rose Springvale: is that a motion Gwyn? where were you when we talked about all this!?
[9:53] Kaseido Quandry: heavens, we’re letting the proles talk – what next, give them the vote?!
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gosh, turn my head away for a minute, and the asylum gets opened and takes over
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Kas — no, this is like letting anyone enter unrestricted on the TV station, interrupt the work being done, and just broadcast what they wish
[9:54] Tor Karlsvalt still lol
[9:54] Keila Forager: Yep, pretty much
[9:54] Rose Springvale: um
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So why are we still worrying about the campaigning? lol
[9:54] Kaseido Quandry thought that’s exactly what the intenets were for…
[9:55] Rose Springvale: lets get back to the point. We have a campaign law on the books that we violate each term
[9:55] Tor Karlsvalt: ture
[9:55] Rose Springvale: do we want to revise it, delete it, or ignore it
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: On the Internet, Kas, you don’t get the governments’ samp of approval on ANY blog post you do on your own
[9:55] Tor Karlsvalt: true
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *stamp
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry: no, we have the revised law from the end of the 12th RA
[9:55] Rose Springvale: but
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d ignore it, it doesn’t make any sense now.
[9:55] Rose Springvale: it required a constitutional amendment that didn’t pass Kas
[9:55] Kaseido Quandry: ahh, right
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah
[9:55] Arria Perreault: the SC did a decision
[9:55] Rose Springvale: so… shall we move to delete the campaign act entirely?
[9:55] Arria Perreault: Delia?
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so, Rose
[9:56] Rose Springvale: order please
[9:56] Arria Perreault: first ask Delia
[9:56] Keila Forager: 10 minutes are up
[9:56] Rose Springvale: Gwyn, want to look at that and bring it back??
[9:56] Rose Springvale: we need to move on
[9:56] Tor Karlsvalt thankfully we have lawyers.
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Look at what??
[9:57] Rose Springvale: deletion of the campaign act on the CDS code of laws currently, that was not addressed last term or now
[9:57] Arria Perreault raises hand
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I see. Well. That’s an easy, one-line motion. If anyone cares to propose it…
[9:57] Rose Springvale: Arria?
[9:57] Arria Perreault: I have sent a request to the SC about this law and I am pretty sure they mad a decision.
[9:57] Rose Springvale: its on the forums.
[9:57] Arria Perreault: about the validity of this law
[9:57] Rose Springvale: but there is a law that was not revoked prior to that
[9:58] Arria Perreault: we can revoke it then
[9:58] Rose Springvale: i’m going to refer this all back to the committee
[9:58] Rose Springvale: i don’t want a motion that we haven’t looked at for effect on other laws. lets move on the thet term limits act gwyn
[9:58] Arria Perreault: I agree
[9:58] Delia Lake: sorry
[9:58] Delia Lake: rl phone call came in
[9:59] Rose Springvale: nm delia, we’ll get it next time.
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, agreed.
[9:59] Pip Torok: brb 2 mins
[9:59] Delia Lake: i would strongly object to leaving any law on the books that we as a group intend to ignore
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear, Delia
[9:59] Tor Karlsvalt: brb
[9:59] Rose Springvale: that’s why we will look at it in commission before we discuss. but lets move on, we have a full agenda
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right…
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So hmm. I understand that on the last time we managed to discuss the term limits for the Chancellor. A proposal has been made to limit terms to elected RA members: they can only run twice in succession.
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The idea is to promote rotativity
[10:01] Rose Springvale: the language here would need to end at the word succession, as we already dealt with the chancellor issues
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: Term Limits Act
No directly elected office in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen more than two terms in succession.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: that would be the language yes?
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Something like that, yes!
[10:02] Lilith Ivory waves
[10:02] Rose Springvale: do you want to make comments Gwyn?
[10:02] Rose Springvale: hi lilith
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only one.
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think we should discuss what happens if someone vacates the spot in the middle of their second term,
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: can they run again? when?
[10:03] Pip Torok: back
[10:03] Rose Springvale: or their first term for that matter, does it count as a term
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If they vacate it after 2 months, can they wait 4 months and get elected again? Or would have to wait 4 + 6 months*
[10:03] Keila Forager: I think it should
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes Rose
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That as well
[10:03] Rose Springvale: but first lets discuss the proposal. may not be any support for it
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it’s the only comment I’ve got. Thanks
[10:04] Rose Springvale: Discussion? do we want to limit successive terms?
[10:04] Keila Forager: Yes
[10:04] Rose Springvale: keila, ?
[10:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: no
[10:04] Kaseido Quandry: is that a vote? are we voting?
[10:04] Rose Springvale: no
[10:04] Rose Springvale: i recognized keila for discussion
[10:04] Tor Karlsvalt: b sorry
[10:05] Rose Springvale: want to say why Keila?
[10:06] Rose Springvale: smiles. muhammed, would you like to give support for your opinion?
[10:06] Tor Karlsvalt thinks he is caught up
[10:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think there are not enoug people in CDS to make it work
[10:07] Keila Forager: no comment, sorry, Yes was my comment, we need limits
[10:07] Rose Springvale: hmm, there are some 60 people. the ra only has 10%
[10:07] Rose Springvale: rounded down
[10:07] Naftali Torok: wavers to every one
[10:07] Naftali Torok: good saturday
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note that after a term “asleep”, they can come back as candidates, muhammed
[10:07] Pip Torok waves back
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ni Naf!)
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *hi
[10:08] Rose Springvale: anyone else have thoughts on this?
[10:08] Keila Forager: Yes, the RA needs fresh blood…LOL
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It definitely needs fresh blood!!
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And giving out the message that this not “government by a selected few”
[10:08] Pip Torok: yes … imo we need “fresh blood” but limiting terms is not going to provide it!] [10:08] Rose Springvale: why not Pip?
[10:09] muhammedyussif Wikinger:
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heh… why not?
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (aw Rose asked first!)
[10:09] Kaseido Quandry: I think we’ve all formed our opinions – call the question
[10:09] Pip Torok: yes … but when there is not enough pl what alternative is there?
[10:09] Rose Springvale: as soon as pip finishes
[10:09] Rose Springvale: hmm
[10:09] Pip Torok: finished
[10:09] Keila Forager: There are enough people..
[10:09] Rose Springvale: okay. Question has been called
[10:09] Rose Springvale: Term Limits Act
No directly elected office in the CDS Government can be held by the same citizen more than two terms in succession,
[10:09] Rose Springvale: here is the language
[10:09] Rose Springvale: though technically we need a second for the motion
[10:10] Keila Forager: second
[10:10] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:10] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:10] muhammedyussif Wikinger: nay
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:10] Keila Forager: definitely aye
[10:10] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:10] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:10] Pip Torok: nay
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt thinks this is worth trying.
[10:10] Rose Springvale: i vote aye, which passes the legislation, but will register 7 day votes as well
[10:11] Rose Springvale: thank you gwyn for you work on this. now
[10:11] Rose Springvale: lets do the details. What constitutes a term?
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn bows
[10:11] Keila Forager: Thanks GWyn, good work
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:11] Rose Springvale: i’d propose 50 percent of the term would be appropriate
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is “half a term” a term too?
[10:11] You decline Nantucket Theater from A group member named Chuck McMasters.
[10:12] Rose Springvale: would entertain a motion
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll go dowb the route of Zeon’s Paradox…
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Zeno
[10:12] Pip Torok: :-]] [10:12] Rose Springvale: don’t get too techie on me or i’ll get a headache!
[10:12] Keila Forager: Anything over 50% of term meetings is considered a term..
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Keila’s suggestion
[10:12] Pip Torok agrees on that definition
[10:12] Rose Springvale: terms are 26 weeks, can we say anything over 13 weeks from the beginning of the term?
[10:13] Pip Torok: second
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Fine!
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: ok
[10:13] Keila Forager: ok, that works
[10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:13] Arria Perreault: sorry I have crashed. I am on my ipad
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We’ll have to start somewhere
[10:13] Rose Springvale: that way we wont’ get into the weekly or bi weekly issue
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (wb Arria!)
[10:13] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:13] Keila Forager: yes..true, in case of extra meetins
[10:13] Keila Forager: WB Arria
[10:13] Rose Springvale: moved and seconded that anything over 13 weeks, or half a term, constitutes a term for purposes of the term limits law
[10:13] Arria Perreault: tx
[10:14] Rose Springvale: shall we discuss or vote?
[10:14] Keila Forager: vote
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with the vote.
[10:14] Pip Torok: me too
[10:14] Delia Lake muses. …50% + 1 day? 13 wks + 1 day? as she wonders what the SC would do at exactly the 50% mark….hmmm again
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 50.00000001%
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 50% plus a second
[10:14] Delia Lake: lol!
[10:14] Rose Springvale: 1 second over 13 weeks lol
[10:14] Rose Springvale: yes
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
[10:14] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:14] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:14] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: ye
[10:14] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:15] Keila Forager: aye
[10:15] Pip Torok: lets be trad … 13 wks + 1 day!
[10:15] Kaseido Quandry: is that a nay, pip?
[10:15] Pip Torok: no …. it is not a nay
[10:15] Rose Springvale: we are in a vote now.
[10:15] Rose Springvale: waiting
[10:15] Pip Torok: aye
[10:15] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:15] Rose Springvale: great. motion carries!
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay!
[10:16] Rose Springvale: thank you again gwyn.
[10:16] Lilith Ivory aplauds
[10:16] Rose Springvale: moving on!
[10:16] Rose Springvale: commerce commission!
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: you shouldn’t thank ME that much as if the commission didn’t have more people in it…. “thank you, commission” is more appropriate!
[10:17] Rose Springvale: indeed
[10:17] Rose Springvale: Lilith?
[10:17] Lilith Ivory:
[10:17] Lilith Ivory: not much to say but that the TP in NFS is changed now
[10:18] Rose Springvale: ah, great!
[10:18] Lilith Ivory: please let me know if there are any problems with it
[10:18] Rose Springvale: any meetings scheduled?
[10:18] Pip Torok: ok lilith …
[10:18] Lilith Ivory: bare with me please till I´m back home from my travels
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: I´m sitting at the cleveland airport at the moment …
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: I´ll schedule a meeting as soon as im home on 27th
[10:19] Sonja Strom:
[10:19] Rose Springvale: thanks!
[10:19] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:19] Rose Springvale: Citizenship, Arria?
[10:19] Arria Perreault: we had a third meeting and now we are ready to submit a text to the RA
[10:20] Rose Springvale: great! will you post it in legislative discussions and we’ll put it on the agenda next meeting
[10:20] Arria Perreault: i will post it in the forum this week end
[10:20] Rose Springvale: okay thank you.
[10:20] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:20] Rose Springvale: Finance, Tor?
[10:20] Tor Karlsvalt: ahem
[10:21] Tor Karlsvalt: Not much. The Finance Commission did not hold any meetings. However, I think we should grapple with the issue of pricing our land and any necessary adjustments to our tier. This is especially in light of any planning for expansion and the land for sale manly in LA. I do note that AH2 had not been re-parcelled yet.
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:21] Rose Springvale: will you be calling a meeting to discuss that Tor?
[10:21] Tor Karlsvalt: Also, Sudane I believe has created a new alt to hold reserve funds.
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, after the fest we will deal with these questions.
[10:22] Rose Springvale: maybe we will hear about that from the exec in her report
[10:22] Rose Springvale: any dates?
[10:22] Keila Forager: I agree, land is CDS is priced way too high compared to the rest of the grid, save some mainland
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: like to leave that open
[10:22] Rose Springvale: okay. bear in mind we are on the downward slope of this term, so if there are things we want to address, we need to get them going.
[10:22] Rose Springvale: thank you Tor.
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: yes i understand.
[10:23] Rose Springvale: Communications, Kas?
[10:23] Pip Torok: but dont forget … the US UK and most of the R:L world is in desperate financial straights ,,, so assessing landpricing cant be more than temporary imo
[10:23] Kaseido Quandry: Meetings scheduled for next Thrusday and Saturday at 9am slt
[10:23] Rose Springvale: ah, great! topic?
[10:23] Rose Springvale: (any more specific than communications ? )
[10:23] Kaseido Quandry: “offical forums” primarily, and generally, what to do next
[10:24] Rose Springvale: ok. thanks. anything else to report?
[10:24] Kaseido Quandry: nope
[10:24] Rose Springvale: okay, thank you all. Commission chairs, you are doing a great job, and thank you to all the citizens who are participating.
[10:24] Rose Springvale: Sonja, are you ready?
[10:25] Rose Springvale: hm
[10:25] Sonja Strom: Yes
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:25] Rose Springvale: okay, you are on
[10:25] Sonja Strom: thank you
[10:26] Sonja Strom: One of the more fun changes we have had is that we now have open teleport on the sim of Neufreistadt.
[10:26] Sonja Strom: That did create one problem,
[10:26] Keila Forager: Yay!!
[10:26] Sonja Strom:
[10:26] Sonja Strom: Yay, yes
[10:26] Sonja Strom: the problem was that if someone chose the SL map default teleport point,
[10:27] Sonja Strom: they would go into Fern Leissa’ house
[10:27] Kaseido Quandry: ow, lol!
[10:27] Sonja Strom: hehe
[10:27] Lilith Ivory:
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[10:27] Tor Karlsvalt: that could be a surprise.
[10:27] Sonja Strom: yes! lol
[10:27] Lilith Ivory: Arria can teach Fern how to deal with that
[10:27] Sonja Strom: We worked on this, and tried to get the “default” changed,
[10:28] Sonja Strom: and Fern let us know she would donate her land to the CDS for the project
[10:28] Sonja Strom: so, we have her to thank for that!
[10:28] Sonja Strom: Very nice of her
[10:28] Lilith Ivory: not so bad to have a shop at 128/128
[10:28] Sonja Strom: now the default teleport point has been moved to exactly where the telehub used to be,
[10:28] Sonja Strom: heehee Lilith
[10:28] Pip Torok: the RA wd like to give her a vote of thanks!
[10:29] Sonja Strom:
[10:29] Arria Perreault: i have a garden …
[10:29] Keila Forager: yes and I think we should pay her for her land
[10:29] Rose Springvale: so fern’s land isn’t needed now Sonja?
[10:29] Pip Torok: agree
[10:29] Sonja Strom: and peope using the SL map will end up in the Platz.
[10:29] Lilith Ivory: good idea
[10:30] Rose Springvale: (can we hold comments to the end of hte report please? lots of time for them at the end)
[10:30] Sonja Strom: A little less fun,as I think we all know, land sales down
[10:30] Sonja Strom: this is an issue made much more intensified by Arrias and his friends all leaving.
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt:
[10:31] Sonja Strom: One thing we are doing to try to help is a reparceling of the really big parcel on Alpine Meadow
[10:31] Sonja Strom: the New Guild is working on this.
[10:31] Sonja Strom: Probably it would be good for the CDS to lower its monthly tier costs,
[10:31] Sonja Strom: and help with this would be appreciated.
[10:32] Sonja Strom: With many thanks to Tor and his great work on this, we have implemented new policies for nonpayment of tier,
[10:32] Sonja Strom: posted here:
[10:32] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3060
[10:33] Sonja Strom: Unfortunately these new policies appear to have resulted in a bunch of people falling behind in their tier payments.
[10:33] Sonja Strom: We are contacting them individually to see if we can get them on track with the new regulations.
[10:33] Sonja Strom: If you would like to help with this, please contact me.
[10:33] Sonja Strom: The finances are posted as Treasurer Reports, as normal
[10:34] Sonja Strom: to be found here: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=224
[10:34] Sonja Strom: Now the are also detailed with Chancellor spreadsheets showing the budget.
[10:35] Sonja Strom: The current budget is posted here: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3066
[10:35] Sonja Strom: and monthly totals:
[10:35] Sonja Strom: June: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3095
July: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3097
August: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3099
[10:35] Sonja Strom: The Treasurer has created a new avatar to act as the holder of the reserves,
[10:36] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=3096
[10:36] Sonja Strom: which she posted about here:
[10:36] Sonja Strom: There has been some discussion in the forum about the right of the Chancellor to make the budget and act on it.
[10:36] Sonja Strom: The legality of this issue has been brought as an issue for resolution to the Dean of the SC, Delia Lake.
[10:36] Sonja Strom: She has said the SC will discuss it and give their view on what the law says.
[10:37] Delia Lake: we are looking at that issue
[10:37] Delia Lake: we/SC
[10:37] Sonja Strom: One discussion in the community for going forward is about the Schloss in Neufreistadt, and possible future sims.
[10:37] Sonja Strom: There have been a fair number of accomplishments in the area of public communication.
[10:38] Sonja Strom: The InfoCenters have been re-furbished; they now give out (1) a re-edited “About CDS” notecard, (2) a url to the CDS Calendar
[10:38] Sonja Strom: nd (3) a url to the land for sale listing.
[10:38] Sonja Strom: They have been placed at info-points in the sims (CN Forum, LA Harbor, NFS Marktplatz, in MON near the Monsastery proper, and in AM near Naf’s cantina)
[10:39] Sonja Strom: There has also been one placed at the Anzere infohub maintained by CDS.
[10:39] Sonja Strom: Land For Sale is being regularly updated and is now in a post on the forum,
[10:39] Sonja Strom: located here:
[10:39] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3080
[10:39] Sonja Strom: As I said, the InfoCenter urls link to there.
[10:40] Sonja Strom: Teleport boards (with maps) have been placed in the sims at all the above information points.
[10:40] Sonja Strom: We have written a new communications policy to implement the recent communications act.
[10:40] Sonja Strom: It has been posted in the forum here:
[10:40] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=3079
[10:40] Sonja Strom: and also sent out to all of the citizens in the form of a notecard.
[10:41] Sonja Strom: We have organised what looks like a really great Oktoberfest.
[10:41] Sonja Strom: If you go to the Platz you will be amazed at the fantasitic work done by Rosie Gray and others.
[10:42] Sonja Strom: I want to thank publicly all of our participants in getting this so nicely put together,
[10:42] Sonja Strom: and I hope you will thank them also.
[10:43] Sonja Strom: Last but not least, I really hope the people in the government (at least) will try to go to the events as much as possible,
[10:43] Sonja Strom: and even when there are not “events” be around to greet people and welcome them.
[10:44] Sonja Strom: This is a really wonderful opportunity for us all to and meet and talk with people!
[10:44] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[10:44] Rose Springvale: Thank you Sonja. RA, questions?
[10:44] Keila Forager raises hand
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: ys
[10:44] Rose Springvale: keila?
[10:45] Tor Karlsvalt raises his hand too
[10:45] Keila Forager: it’s a long one..LOL
[10:45] Rose Springvale: smiles. go on
[10:45] Rose Springvale: tor next
[10:45] Pip Torok: I propose a vote of thanks to the Chancellor and helpers for theeir efforts
[10:45] Keila Forager: ~Oktoberfest looks like it will be alot of fun..great work. Thanks to all putting it together. FYI, the info give is not copy as one of the scripts is no copy and no mod
~A couple things..as marketing of CDS is sporatic at best. Why aren’t we in SL Showcase? That is an awesome way to get traffic here.
~Comment on lowering tiers…I think first we need to lower land prices. How can we get new citizens if they can’t afford land?
And along with that, we ,as a whole need to look at retaining citizens and not driving them away..
~Next…The flags on the Schloss are flying in different directions and some of the textures on the clocktower are all wrong. It has been pointed out to me by numerous people. I”ve been told this is something for the exec to fix.
~And last a personal question…have you taken care of the issue we spoke about…and when? As they are still there and it is 10 days later.
[10:45] Arria Perreault: second
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Pip’s motion
[10:45] Rose Springvale: out of order folks
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry !
[10:46] Pip Torok wonders why
[10:46] Keila Forager: Feel free to take them one at a time Sonja
[10:46] Arria Perreault: me too
[10:46] Rose Springvale: okay sonja, want to take keils’s questions?
[10:46] Rose Springvale: we are in discussion.
[10:46] Sonja Strom: Ah, thanks Keila, I did not know about the script being no copy and no mod
[10:47] Sonja Strom: I will find one where those a possible.
[10:47] Sonja Strom: I am not familiar with the SL Showcase. If you will let me know how we can get into it, I will work on this.
[10:48] Keila Forager: it’s in the search tab
[10:48] Sonja Strom: How do we apply for it?
[10:49] Keila Forager: Click on the FAQ and it should take you to the info..and it is on the website..
[10:49] Delia Lake: http://secondlife.com/destinations
[10:49] Sonja Strom: I agree with you that lowering prices on the government-owned land that is for sale is a good idea. If you would like to help with getting this worked out, that would be great.
[10:49] Sonja Strom: Good, thanks!
[10:49] Sonja Strom: I will do it.
[10:51] Sonja Strom: I will look into the flags flying in different directions. I agree that can look kind of strange and disorganised, like the work is incomplete or something.
[10:51] Keila Forager: Yes, that and the textures have been commented on frequently
[10:51] Sonja Strom: what is the issue with the textures?
[10:51] Keila Forager: they are wrong..
[10:51] Sonja Strom: ah, ok
[10:52] Sonja Strom: sure, I will be happy to help to get them changed.
[10:52] Keila Forager: it is blatant, so you can’t miss it when you look at it
[10:52] Sonja Strom: Thank you for bringing them up
[10:52] Sonja Strom: alright, I will go and look at them.
[10:53] Sonja Strom: The issue you and I spoke about had to do with the use of sim resources of rabbits, or bunnies
[10:53] Sonja Strom: and you had told me there are some on Locus Amoenus
[10:53] Sonja Strom: I have found them, and am in the process of documenting the amount of sim resources they use,
[10:53] Rose Springvale: can you share what the issue is please?
[10:54] Keila Forager: Upholding the covanents is the issue
[10:54] Sonja Strom: another way of saying this is, how much lag the rabbits cause
[10:54] Keila Forager: they don’t cause lag
[10:54] Sonja Strom: and, yes, enforcement of the covenants.
[10:54] Keila Forager: enforcement of the covenants is the main issue..
[10:54] Sonja Strom: I am moving forward with this with care,
[10:55] Sonja Strom: because of the nature of what has happened with those residents in the recent past,
[10:55] Sonja Strom: and what their interests are in the CDS.
[10:55] Sonja Strom: I will speak with them about it in detail before very long.
[10:55] Keila Forager: but you gave me 48 hours to resolve my issue and I did in 24, why do they get special treatment and get to keep more bunnies than I ever had..
[10:55] Keila Forager: ??
[10:55] Kaseido Quandry has no idea what’s going on.
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:56] Keila Forager: I was asked to remove all my bunnies as they were in violation of covanent and given 48 horus
[10:56] Sonja Strom: Keila, I asked you to move your rabbits from the sim of Neufreistadt because of Oktoberfest coming up.
[10:56] Keila Forager: I did..
[10:56] Rose Springvale: maybe we can have covenant violations posted and disposition on the exec thread as in the past?
[10:56] Keila Forager: No, that is incorrect
[10:56] Keila Forager: I have the log of that conversation..
[10:56] Sonja Strom: It is very important that we focus all of the resources we can in Neufreistadt on the ability for the Oktoberfest events to not be laggy,
[10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn likes Rose’s suggestion
[10:57] Sonja Strom: and for them to go well and smoothly.
[10:57] Keila Forager: that was not even brought up
[10:57] Tor Karlsvalt thinks there was a lack of communication.
[10:57] Rose Springvale: seems this issue is an estate wide issue that shouldn’t be borne by one citizen
[10:57] Keila Forager: my question doesn’t really have to do with my bunnies,,,,it has to do with why laws are enforced willy nilly
[10:57] Sonja Strom: Well, I’m sorry if you felt I was incomplete Keila.
[10:58] Sonja Strom: The reason I contacted you was because of Oktoberfest coming up.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: for the sake of transparency, can we have process and application applied uniformly?
[10:58] Sonja Strom: But in any event, the rabbits were (and still are) clearly in violation of the posted covenants.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: all bunnies in all sims?
[10:58] Sonja Strom: Yes
[10:59] Keila Forager: you NEVER mentioned Oktoberfest at all
[10:59] muhammedyussif Wikinger: next question please
[10:59] Sonja Strom: Keila, would it have made a difference for you if I would have mentioned Oktoberfest?
[10:59] Rose Springvale: okay, lets have a covenants review committee look at those. That issue has foundered, so i’ll take it up.
[10:59] Rose Springvale: lets move on please
[10:59] Tor Karlsvalt remembers reading blogs on this issue and major opinion was that bunnies use few resources.
[10:59] Keila Forager: no, and why aren’t the others gone..you agreed to that
[10:59] Rose Springvale: Was that your last question Keila?
[10:59] Keila Forager: and you are correct, this isn’t about bunnies
[11:00] Keila Forager: it’s about picking and chosing what laws to enforce
[11:00] Sonja Strom: I am in the process of documenting the use of sim resources.
[11:00] Sonja Strom: If you like, I can post this in the Forum.
[11:00] Rose Springvale: please do. I think Tor has a question?
[11:00] Pip Torok thinks that wd be a good idea
[11:00] Sonja Strom: Alright, I will.
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, several questions and suggestions
[11:00] Keila Forager: That isn’t important to enforcing the covanents and picking and chosing who you let do whatever
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Just like to point out several things.
First, there are several very desirable parcels along the NC south wall and river that are not set for sale, but owned by Rudene. Just found those the other day.
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: Second, I wonder if the exec team has thought of listing parcels in search? The cost would be small and might offer us some chance to get land at least considered by non-citizens. Perhaps we could just list one parcel and have a kiosk on it that would direct prospective buyers to other parcels and the parcel maps and tier schedules.
[11:01] Rose Springvale: smiles. CN i think he means
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: Finally, I remade the sign as copy/mod and placed them at my houses and here in the praetorium. Also, a note to all, take a flag and decorate your houses, show support for Oktoberfest. (They seem to always fly in the same direction thanks to Rosie Gray.)
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: yes
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: I meant CN
[11:01] Tor Karlsvalt: that’s it
[11:01] Sonja Strom: Thanks Tor!
[11:02] Sonja Strom: I was not aware of those parcels owned by Rudeen. I will look into why they are, and why they are not set for sale.
[11:02] Sonja Strom: I think it can be a good idea to list parcels for sale in SL Search.
[11:02] Sonja Strom: There is a cost for that, but it can be minimal.
[11:02] Sonja Strom: However,
[11:03] Sonja Strom: I also think we will have people more interested in the parcels here if they have some connection to our community.
[11:03] Sonja Strom: If they have seen the CDS,
[11:03] Sonja Strom: and/or they have talked with someone who is a citizen.
[11:03] Sonja Strom: The best marketing we can have is our Oktoberfest,
[11:04] Sonja Strom: and for all of us to be there to meet and talk with its visitors.
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: We will talk to more people about CDS if they come into our sims.
[11:04] Sonja Strom: Yes, true, I agree.
[11:04] Kaseido Quandry: May I ask, what adverstising has been done for Oktoberfest?
[11:04] Sonja Strom: Thank you for your work on the signs and flags, Tor!
[11:04] Tor Karlsvalt: i posted a classified yesterday
[11:04] Sonja Strom: Yes,
[11:05] Tor Karlsvalt: told Anna about it.
[11:05] Sonja Strom: Oktoberfest is listed in the SL Events Calendar
[11:05] Sonja Strom: It is listed in the CDS Events Calendar
[11:05] Sonja Strom: All of the performers and artists are telling their fans and friends to come.
[11:06] Sonja Strom: We have InfoGivers and Flags that are distributed widely.
[11:06] Sonja Strom: Would any of you like to help us do more to advertise it?
[11:06] Rose Springvale: maybe on our portal and web presences
[11:06] Rose Springvale: nothing on any of them
[11:07] Keila Forager: I’ve put mine out in Fruit Islands..I get more visitors there than CDS gets..hehe, but only have one
[11:07] Sonja Strom: They are in the Events Calendar, which comes up on the portal.
[11:07] Sonja Strom: I made a post about all of the events in the CDS Forum.
[11:07] Free Radar HUD v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
[11:07] Sonja Strom: As events come up, we can put them in Twitter…
[11:07] Rose Springvale: but when you click on the portal front page, all you get is an old beach party note
[11:07] Sonja Strom: that is a good idea!
[11:08] Keila Forager: But still, the portal is very difficult to navigate..and seems the people that read the forums are all sitting here..LOL
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: We really need to focus on non-citizens.
[11:08] Tor Karlsvalt: hence my classified
[11:08] Keila Forager: Yes, and they don’t go to the portal
[11:08] Sonja Strom: Thank you Tor.
[11:08] Delia Lake: is there a sign on the platz that has a notecard to the url for the land for sale in CDS? sign saying something like This could be home!
[11:08] Rose Springvale: we have always done press releases in the past too
[11:08] Arria Perreault: maybe facebook
[11:08] Sonja Strom: Rose, would you please help us with a press release?
[11:08] Keila Forager: But we need to get the word out to people who arent’ sitting in this room…
[11:09] Rose Springvale: we are at time. Maybe furthre questions can go to the forums. too late for them now Sonja
[11:09] Sonja Strom: Keila, your help would also be appreciated.
[11:09] Sonja Strom: Rose, it’s never too late — Oktoberfest has not even yet started!
[11:10] Rose Springvale: Thank you for all your hard work sonja. And yay for Rosie and anna and tor too
[11:10] Sonja Strom: Thank you
[11:10] Pip Torok: I propose a vote of thanks to the Chancellor and helpers for theeir efforts
[11:10] Lilith Ivory aplauds
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: hear hear
[11:10] Tor Karlsvalt: ♫~~♫~~APPLAUSE~~♫~~♫
[11:10] Rose Springvale: i think we did just thank her
[11:10] Sonja Strom:
[11:10] muhammedyussif Wikinger: second
[11:10] Pip Torok:
[11:10] Rose Springvale: fine. all in favor?
[11:11] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:11] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[11:11] Keila Forager: aye
[11:11] Pip Torok: aye
[11:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye, sure
[11:11] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:11] Rose Springvale: arria? kas?
[11:12] Kaseido Quandry: hm? oh, aye
[11:12] Rose Springvale: thank you, motion carries.
[11:12] Rose Springvale: i’ll let you draft the language Pip.
[11:12] Pip Torok:
[11:12] Rose Springvale: other RA concerns?
[11:12] Rose Springvale: okay. Announcements?
[11:13] Rose Springvale: Sonja, can you tell us what we are sponsoring on Radio Riel and where?
[11:13] Sonja Strom: Yes
[11:14] Sonja Strom: Klaus Wulfenbach, who many of us know has been a great person to have around,
[11:14] Sonja Strom: and who has helped the CDS a great deal,
[11:14] Sonja Strom: is organising a folk music stream in SL, put together by Radio Riel
[11:15] Sonja Strom: Radio Real has also been very supportive of the CDS
[11:15] Pip Torok gets interested ….
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn is really, really sorry, but will have to leave you a bit earlier today. Thanks for your patience and have a lovely weekend all!
[11:15] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:15] Rose Springvale: smiles. radio riel makes a lot of money in CDS
[11:15] Sonja Strom: and if the CDS helps to sponsor this radio station,
[11:15] Kaseido Quandry: bye Gwyn!
[11:15] Lilith Ivory: bye Gwyn
[11:15] Sonja Strom: they will give us advertising time when there are breaks in the music
[11:16] Rose Springvale: so will our streams be set to their url?
[11:16] Sonja Strom: which… we were just talking about how advertising the CDS can be really good.
[11:16] Sonja Strom: And, yes, we can have this URL in our public areas.
[11:16] Keila Forager: They would have to be
[11:16] Rose Springvale: radio riel is primarily a steampunk organization, and Gabi has her own sims with land for sale as well
[11:17] Sonja Strom: I believe it is a worthwhile project, and have said we would support it.
[11:17] Rose Springvale: how will you assess its usefulness?
[11:17] Sonja Strom: If the RA disagrees with this, we can take away our support of it.
[11:17] muhammedyussif Wikinger: afk
[11:17] Sonja Strom: That’s a good question, Rose. Any suggestions?
[11:18] Pip Torok thinks he really needs to research steampunk ….
[11:18] Rose Springvale: i am just asking process. I thought that question would be determined before committing funds
[11:18] Rose Springvale: gabi is a personal friend of mine, and has often bailed me out when others have not been professional
[11:18] Sonja Strom: We can ask the RA right now: what do you think about it?
[11:19] Rose Springvale: we are out of time today. Please open a thread, and we can pick it up later
[11:19] Kaseido Quandry: I think I’d like to see a written proposal and a budget
[11:19] Rose Springvale: maybe you can give some more background on what we are getting
[11:19] Sonja Strom: Alright, I will do that.
[11:19] Rose Springvale: any other announcements?
[11:19] Lilith Ivory needs more info to have an opinion
[11:19] Pip Torok agrees with Kas
[11:19] Keila Forager: agrees also with Kas
[11:19] Rose Springvale: i’ll entertain a motion to adjourn then
[11:19] Keila Forager: second
[11:19] Pip Torok: so move
[11:19] Tor Karlsvalt same as Lilith. But sounds like a good idea at first light.
[11:20] Rose Springvale: thank you
[11:20] Tor Karlsvalt: secont
[11:20] Kaseido Quandry: heck, I’d feed it dinner and ask it to spend the night
[11:20] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[11:20] Pip Torok: aye
[11:20] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:20] Keila Forager: aye
[11:20] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:20] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:20] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:20] Rose Springvale: thank you all, we are adjourned

Permalink.

Special Meeting 1 re CDS Expansion 25 September 2010

Special Meeting 1, re: CDS Expansion
by Rose Springvale » Sat Sep 25, 2010 11:32 am
[2010/09/25 10:02] Rose Springvale: i’m going to start the record now
[2010/09/25 10:02] Keila Forager: ok
[2010/09/25 10:02] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[2010/09/25 10:02] Rose Springvale: We are here today to talk about what, if any expansion we’d like to see in CDS
[2010/09/25 10:02] Lilith Ivory: we do still get this notes about tier when it´s time to pay? right?
[2010/09/25 10:02] Keila Forager: I have Lilith
[2010/09/25 10:02] Keila Forager: Hi Soro \
[2010/09/25 10:02] Rose Springvale: this is an informal meeting, no voting, but i’ll take any thoughts back to the RA, and this will be on the agenda for the next RA meeting
[2010/09/25 10:03] Rose Springvale: i’ve also talked to moon, who will be available at the next meeting, which is this thursday btw
[2010/09/25 10:03] Rose Springvale: to help us understand what is possible
[2010/09/25 10:03] Rose Springvale: i’m going to open the floor. What would you like to see us do?
[2010/09/25 10:03] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi – I can’t find them
[2010/09/25 10:04] Rose Springvale shouts: soro, downstairs in the school!
[2010/09/25 10:04] Rose Springvale: i’ll tp you
[2010/09/25 10:04] Keila Forager: first floor guys…
[2010/09/25 10:04] Soro Dagostino: Oh
[2010/09/25 10:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I have tried
[2010/09/25 10:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok here it was – hello
[2010/09/25 10:05] Rose Springvale: hi muhammed!
[2010/09/25 10:05] Keila Forager: I think before we start talking expansion, we need to market cds more to get in new citizens, unless just having the present citizens buy the new land is fine..
[2010/09/25 10:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi Rose
[2010/09/25 10:05] Rose Springvale: i anticipated that keila
[2010/09/25 10:05] Rose Springvale: and want to report that even though it looks like we have a lot of land for sale
[2010/09/25 10:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Soro is looking for us too
[2010/09/25 10:05] Rose Springvale: we are still at 90% or better on our revenues
[2010/09/25 10:06] Rose Springvale: sent him a tp
[2010/09/25 10:06] Keila Forager: he just went offline
[2010/09/25 10:07] Solomon Mosely gave you ~*The FASHION ROCKS Series*~ Saturday SHOP HOP 9/25 – Schedule.
[2010/09/25 10:07] Rose Springvale: arria we are downstairs
[2010/09/25 10:07] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[2010/09/25 10:07] Rose Springvale: just jump lol
[2010/09/25 10:07] Lilith Ivory: is there any progress with the rebuild of the schloss yet?
[2010/09/25 10:08] Rose Springvale: lilith, i don’t think anyone has done anything. I went up to find a room to meet in, and if anything, its worse
[2010/09/25 10:08] Keila Forager: Then NFS East or a sim on the west of NFS as it looks “funky” looking inside Monanstary
[2010/09/25 10:09] Rose Springvale: this building is a bit tough for angles, but i wanted to be where we could attract visitors, and the GMP is here. keila
[2010/09/25 10:09] Rose Springvale: i don’t know my directions, can you be more specific?
[2010/09/25 10:09] You decline Nantucket Theater from A group member named Chuck McMasters.
[2010/09/25 10:09] Rose Springvale: lol, i’ll turn the bench around
[2010/09/25 10:09] Rose Springvale: there
[2010/09/25 10:09] Rose Springvale: sorry
[2010/09/25 10:10] Lilith Ivory: I think Keila means a Sim between NFS and Monastery
[2010/09/25 10:10] Keila Forager: Specific how…east and west..LOL
[2010/09/25 10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[2010/09/25 10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks
[2010/09/25 10:10] Rose Springvale: welcome everyone. this meeting will be transcripted btw!
[2010/09/25 10:10] Rose Springvale: is that east?
[2010/09/25 10:10] Lilith Ivory: it´s the west
[2010/09/25 10:10] Arria Perreault: I am west
[2010/09/25 10:10] Keila Forager: west
[2010/09/25 10:11] Rose Springvale: oh, so you prefer NFS west instead of east? not rebuilding the schloss?
[2010/09/25 10:11] Rose Springvale: let me ask you all something
[2010/09/25 10:11] Lilith Ivory: the idea of touching the schloss scares me heheh
[2010/09/25 10:11] Keila Forager: either or and no reason not to rebuild the schloss with teh idea of a sim being there one day..
[2010/09/25 10:11] Rose Springvale: do you feel there is a need for more land in CDS?
[2010/09/25 10:12] Keila Forager: Not at this time
[2010/09/25 10:12] Rose Springvale: why Keila?
[2010/09/25 10:12] Lilith Ivory: even the alpine Sims have parcels for sale at the moment
[2010/09/25 10:12] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[2010/09/25 10:12] Soro Dagostino: Lots of yellow . . .
[2010/09/25 10:12] Arria Perreault: do we even need a sim?
[2010/09/25 10:12] Soro Dagostino: Water.
[2010/09/25 10:12] Tor Karlsvalt: Actally one less than a week ago for AM
[2010/09/25 10:12] Arria Perreault: yes, water sim
[2010/09/25 10:12] Keila Forager: Why…because we have land for sale..land that is owned , sets empty as it’s used for prims..
[2010/09/25 10:12] Rose Springvale: Sudane tells me we are consistently at 90% revenue.
[2010/09/25 10:13] Keila Forager: I believe that..
[2010/09/25 10:13] Rose Springvale: and any landlord would be happy with that.
[2010/09/25 10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: Many sims seem to have far more yellow than us.
[2010/09/25 10:13] Arria Perreault: Hi Pip
[2010/09/25 10:13] Keila Forager: I vote for Atlantis
[2010/09/25 10:13] Rose Springvale: do we need to be sold out before we start new projects?
[2010/09/25 10:13] Arria Perreault: me too
[2010/09/25 10:13] Pip Torok: hi one and all
[2010/09/25 10:13] Tor Karlsvalt: but not all our pacels are set for sail in LA nad CN.
[2010/09/25 10:13] Ingrid Manen gave you Al Andalus.
[2010/09/25 10:13] Keila Forager: no..but we need to have an idea that the land will sell..
[2010/09/25 10:14] Lilith Ivory: I´d like to have the schloss rebuild and have an east expansion
[2010/09/25 10:14] Arria Perreault: a water sim will make LA and CN very attractive
[2010/09/25 10:14] Lilith Ivory: but I don´t see many who are willing and able to work on that
[2010/09/25 10:14] Arria Perreault: why do we need a new schloss?
[2010/09/25 10:14] Rose Springvale: what about sims that are not for sale.. like water, mountains and sandboxes?
[2010/09/25 10:14] Lilith Ivory: because the old one is kinda ugly
[2010/09/25 10:15] Keila Forager: You can set parts of a water sim for sale..
[2010/09/25 10:15] Rose Springvale: i’d like to add value for our current citizens
[2010/09/25 10:15] Arria Perreault: we use the schloss only for some events and we have other places for the events
[2010/09/25 10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: I think NFS is too laggy, moving all or part of the schloss to a new sim will help that right?
[2010/09/25 10:15] Rose Springvale: they are the ones who built the treasury
[2010/09/25 10:15] Arria Perreault: I don’t think the SChloss is ugly
[2010/09/25 10:15] Keila Forager: and sandboxes, you can rent out space around the perimeter
[2010/09/25 10:15] Rose Springvale: do you think those things would add value ?
[2010/09/25 10:15] Arria Perreault: it is an “old2 monument for SL
[2010/09/25 10:15] Callipygian Christensen: Tor, if it straddles the sim line carefully, yes, it should
[2010/09/25 10:15] Arria Perreault: and maybe we should keep it so
[2010/09/25 10:15] Tor Karlsvalt: a sandbox would really bring people in
[2010/09/25 10:16] Keila Forager: I think those things would add value and it a sandbox was advertised…tons of people
[2010/09/25 10:16] Keila Forager: if
[2010/09/25 10:16] Rose Springvale: if anyone is interested in the schloss work group, there is a lot of background already done, i’ll invite you to the google doc. but that’s only one small part
[2010/09/25 10:16] Tor Karlsvalt: An old monument for CDS and a mabye a negative for new residents.
[2010/09/25 10:16] Arria Perreault: I don’t think so
[2010/09/25 10:16] Rose Springvale: can we use the Rest of the sim… we are almost always sold out of fachwerks and land in nfs
[2010/09/25 10:16] Keila Forager: The schoss is in major need of updating and it’s primmy
[2010/09/25 10:16] Tor Karlsvalt: the lag is a negative
[2010/09/25 10:16] Arria Perreault: and if it is true, we can remake all sims
[2010/09/25 10:16] Rose Springvale: sigh
[2010/09/25 10:17] Rose Springvale: so arria, you are voting against any expansion?
[2010/09/25 10:17] Callipygian Christensen: You can create an identical schloss build with far less prims if the hiistoric look is desired
[2010/09/25 10:17] Pip Torok: but5 will the new Schloss be in the style of the old Schloss? .. I hope so
[2010/09/25 10:17] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[2010/09/25 10:17] Arria Perreault: I am in favour of an expansion in the low area
[2010/09/25 10:17] Arria Perreault: eith water
[2010/09/25 10:17] Arria Perreault: with water
[2010/09/25 10:17] Rose Springvale: the low area has always been the hardest to sell
[2010/09/25 10:17] Pip Torok: tks Calli … 2 minds …
[2010/09/25 10:17] Arria Perreault: I know many people are waiting for that
[2010/09/25 10:17] Rose Springvale: but where whould you put water?
[2010/09/25 10:17] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Rose
[2010/09/25 10:17] Tor Karlsvalt: if any of our estate has a problem with selling it is the “low area”
[2010/09/25 10:18] Arria Perreault: and it is easier to do than a new Schloss
[2010/09/25 10:18] Rose Springvale: i agree we should have water, but not try to sell it
[2010/09/25 10:18] Lilith Ivory: AM normally is sold out but the big parcel
[2010/09/25 10:18] Rose Springvale: easy isn’t interesting usually
[2010/09/25 10:18] Arria Perreault: it will possible to navigate
[2010/09/25 10:18] Keila Forager: jThat is the price Litlith
[2010/09/25 10:18] Callipygian Christensen: the only options as things are right now would be west of LA or monastery if you want LA access
[2010/09/25 10:18] Arria Perreault: it will make these sims attractive
[2010/09/25 10:18] Keila Forager: How Arria?
[2010/09/25 10:18] Arria Perreault: in the mountains, I am in favour or a NFS west
[2010/09/25 10:19] Pip Torok: me too …
[2010/09/25 10:19] Arria Perreault: people likes boats
[2010/09/25 10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: i am for water, with maybe a sandbox in the sky, but first I think we would expand NFS East
[10:19 AM] Arria Perreault: there are models of antic boats in the harbour
[10:19 AM] Arria Perreault: we can have an island that we can reach with a boat
[10:19 AM] Arria Perreault: Hi Ulysse
[10:19 AM] Ulysse Alexandre: hello everybody
[10:19 AM] MystiTool HUD 1.3.1: Entering chat range: Rose Springvale (3m)
[10:19 AM] Tor Karlsvalt: wb Rose
[10:19 AM] Lilith Ivory: Hi Ulysse
[10:19 AM] Rose Springvale: sorry
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: wb Rose
[10:19] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:19] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Ulysse
[10:19] Keila Forager: wb Rose
[10:20] Rose Springvale: i was going to say
[10:20] Rose Springvale: any of the spaces around cds are available for development
[10:20] Arria Perreault: for me, NFS west and LA west (an island) and a contest as process to choose
[10:20] Rose Springvale: LL will simply move the estate. they’ve done it twice with cds already
[10:20] Callipygian Christensen: keep in mind if you opt for a homestead water sim there will be limits on avatars ..and not sure, are they limiting scripts yet?
[10:20] Rose Springvale: well, lets do this one at a time
[10:20] Tor Karlsvalt: we would I think need agreement with AA to expand north of LA
[10:21] Rose Springvale: no
[10:21] Keila Forager: Not yet Calli
[10:21] Rose Springvale: just move hte estates tor
[10:21] Tor Karlsvalt: Ok true
[10:21] Keila Forager: and avatar limit is 20 but that doesn’t seem to be a problem here
[10:21] Arria Perreault: does it cost something?
[10:21] Tor Karlsvalt: then that would add to the cost, no?
[10:21] Rose Springvale: so lets get this straight
[10:21] Rose Springvale: no
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: Separate from AA?
[10:21] Rose Springvale: not for expansion.
[10:21] Arria Perreault: good
[10:21] Rose Springvale: yes, AA and CDS are no longer linked so any expansion can happen, LL will just move
[10:21] Arria Perreault: let’s make two water sims north then
[10:22] Callipygian Christensen: you dont have free space north Arria
[10:22] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:22] Rose Springvale: Keila, i’d like to hear about atlantis
[10:22] Pip Torok: agree … we dont haveenough watersims atm
[10:22] Rose Springvale: hi cindy!
[10:22] Arria Perreault: Hi Cindy
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: Arria then is moving to move CDS, i think
[10:22] Pip Torok: hi Cindy
[10:22] Tor Karlsvalt: hi cindy
[10:22] Cindy Ecksol: hi all!
[10:23] Rose Springvale: hi Sudane
[10:23] Tor Karlsvalt: hi Sudane
[10:23] Arria Perreault: Hi Sudane
[10:23] Lilith Ivory: Hi Cindy, Hi Sudane
[10:23] Sudane Erato: hi
[10:23] Keila Forager: Atlantis was an idea I had if I ever owned a full sim…
[10:23] Rose Springvale: like these benches?
[10:23] Seat Cushion: Sit here.
[10:23] Rose Springvale:
[10:23] Pip Torok: hi Sudane
[10:23] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi
[10:23] Sudane Erato: hehe
[10:23] Callipygian Christensen: if you want a water sim north of LA and one north of CN you will need to move the whole estate..but LL will probably give you a deal on doing so
[10:23] Rose Springvale: lets not worry about that part …lets talk about what we want
[10:24] Rose Springvale: what would atlantis involve?
[10:25] Keila Forager: The way I envision it, it would be a full sim
[10:25] Rose Springvale: (bad chat lag today)
[10:25] Keila Forager: not homestead.
[10:25] Rose Springvale: go on
[10:25] Keila Forager: all land for sale would be underwater…lets bring in some mermaids..LOL
[10:25] Arria Perreault listening
[10:25] Rose Springvale: where would you put it Keila?
[10:25] Cindy Ecksol looks at sudane
[10:25] Keila Forager: on the surface would be small islands over the sold land..
[10:26] Keila Forager: only a few so we would have open water
[10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: I actually met a person at Feria who would be interested int that
[10:26] Keila Forager: probably next to LA
[10:26] Arria Perreault: west?
[10:26] Rose Springvale: next to… which side?
[10:26] Arria Perreault: in front of the harbor?
[10:26] Rose Springvale: opens minimap
[10:26] Arria Perreault: and the beach?
[10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: that is east
[10:26] Arria Perreault: where are Tor’s feet?
[10:26] Tor Karlsvalt: the harbor could be turned around
[10:27] Keila Forager: probalby north
[10:27] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:27] Rose Springvale: so on the map, it would be 15?
[10:27] Arria Perreault: will it be also possible to have houses on the small islands?
[10:27] Rose Springvale: or 10?
[10:27] Keila Forager: would have a central info island with boat docks for rent for people to get info about Atlantis and Cds and keep a boat
[10:28] Keila Forager: the idea is to have the houses under the water…it’s Atlantis
[10:28] Rose Springvale: what about theme? what era is atlantis?
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: that would be good. and CDS could rent the docks
[10:28] Keila Forager: yes
[10:28] Rose Springvale: sudane, do your docks rent well in SLNE?
[10:28] Tor Karlsvalt: I think such a sim should have a good sized sandbox in the sky.
[10:28] Arria Perreault: yes, and places for boats maybe
[10:29] Sudane Erato: they used to… but not so much now…
[10:29] Rose Springvale: soro, how does that fit with what you like?
[10:29] Sudane Erato: also, i no longer own the town
[10:29] Sudane Erato: so i’m not up to date
[10:29] Keila Forager: but then to the west of LA could be a plain boating water sim and west of Atlantis with the sandbox..
[10:29] Rose Springvale: oh,okay. sorry. out ofthe loop
[10:29] Rose Springvale: can you tell me by numbers on the map? lol
[10:30] Arria Perreault: 3 water sims?
[10:30] Rose Springvale: and please don’t make me do time zones either!
[10:30] Keila Forager: ok..
[10:30] Arria Perreault: 1 full sim and 2 openspaces or homestead?
[10:30] Tor Karlsvalt: ok Keila, you mean west of the beach there would be two sims?
[10:30] Keila Forager: 10 would be atlantis with 15 and 9 being water sims with boats adn sandbox..
[10:31] Keila Forager: both 15 and 09 being homestead and 10 being full sim
[10:31] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks
[10:31] Rose Springvale: other thoughts?
[10:31] Rose Springvale: ideas?
[10:31] Arria Perreault loves this idea
[10:31] Tor Karlsvalt: it would be a nice idea.
[10:31] Keila Forager: 1 sim is barely enough to sail or boat, but have 2 1/2 water sims would be great
[10:31] Rose Springvale: there has been a huge push over the years for mountains over the years
[10:32] Tor Karlsvalt: that is close to the plan too
[10:32] Keila Forager: I love the mountains too, that is why I came to NFS, but in my heart I’m a beach person
[10:32] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:32] Rose Springvale: i hate to see NFS isolated, as it is really our first point of contact for so many
[10:32] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[10:32] Arria Perreault: I think we could have an homestead/full sim above the Monstary, but it’s more for the long terme
[10:33] Rose Springvale: this is the long term
[10:33] Rose Springvale: no rush to build
[10:33] Arria Perreault: I think NFS west is better than NFS esat
[10:33] Tor Karlsvalt: I would like NFS fillled in too. I like both ideas but what is more imporant.
[10:33] Lilith Ivory: I think we should fill the empty space between NFS and Monastery
[10:33] Arria Perreault: NFS east will be a kind of isolated too
[10:33] Keila Forager: I think a nfs east and west then..
[10:33] Pip Torok: imo they are BOTH equally important
[10:33] Arria Perreault: look this model on the floor and imagine it
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: ok, I think the low water sims would help LA if there is a sandbox.
[10:34] Rose Springvale: nfs west is not able tor eally extend the town much
[10:34] Arria Perreault: this sim will have 3 borders with emptiness
[10:34] Rose Springvale: and that wil always be the case if we don’t start somewhere
[10:34] Tor Karlsvalt: oh i mean est if i said west
[10:34] Arria Perreault: frankly I think NFS is our sanctuary
[10:34] Rose Springvale: i don’t really like the low sim expansion
[10:34] Arria Perreault: we should let it so
[10:35] Rose Springvale: Soro
[10:35] muhammedyussif Wikinger: sigh
[10:35] Cindy Ecksol thinks TOr said “east” and arria said “west”
[10:35] Rose Springvale: are two or three sims enough to attract sailors?
[10:35] Arria Perreault: Rose, it seems that many poeple want an expansion in the low area
[10:35] Arria Perreault: we have to listen to the people
[10:36] Pip Torok: i dont think we shd have water sime ONLY to attract sailors
[10:36] Keila Forager: I don’t think in a big way Rose…there are so many sims of 100 or more that they can sail in
[10:36] Rose Springvale: smiles. we are doing that. there are a few people HERE who want that arria, but there are many people in CDS
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: i think you need more for racing gut don’t know
[10:36] Pip Torok: *sims
[10:36] Rose Springvale: that
[10:36] Rose Springvale: s been my experience
[10:36] Arria Perreault: why not make a survey?
[10:36] Rose Springvale: that’s why i like atlantis, but not the extra sims
[10:36] Rose Springvale: why not brainstorm for a while arria?
[10:36] Tor Karlsvalt: I think there would be interest in Atlantis.
[10:36] Rose Springvale: i’d rather add mountains, than just more water
[10:37] Lilith Ivory: I agree Rose
[10:37] Arria Perreault: because of the concept of “many like..”
[10:37] Rose Springvale: thanks for your input. Other ideas?
[10:37] Arria Perreault: Keila’s proposal is interesting
[10:37] Cindy Ecksol things Atlantis would be a lot of fun to build
[10:37] Pip Torok: whats involved in an Atlantis, Tor?
[10:37] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:37] Arria Perreault: Moon has also advice to expand in the lower area
[10:37] Rose Springvale: no, moon said that would be “easier”… she’ll be at RA on thursday to talk about it
[10:37] Keila Forager: and it may bring a new group to CDS…the mer community…
[10:37] Arria Perreault: as the GMP is not finished: mountains are not easy to design
[10:37] Sudane Erato: do you think anyone other than mermaids would buy underwater land?
[10:37] Tor Karlsvalt: I thnk you would need an undewater city.
[10:38] Tor Karlsvalt: that is an issue.
[10:38] Keila Forager: Sure..I have an entire area at Kiwano..
[10:38] Tor Karlsvalt: can we float that in Mermaid groups?
[10:38] Lilith Ivory: I might buy an island but sure no underwater land
[10:38] Arria Perreault: maybe we can adapt a bit the idea of Keila and have some islands
[10:38] Pip Torok: btw is there an LL limit for the height of land?
[10:38] Rose Springvale: okay, those are good points about an underwater area. Any other thoughts on Sandbox?
[10:39] Keila Forager: Then it would be just another sim of beach islands
[10:39] Rose Springvale: Tor brought that up
[10:39] Pip Torok: only that a sandbox is a GOOD idea!
[10:39] Rose Springvale: what are you thinking there Tor?
[10:39] Tor Karlsvalt: Sandbox should be large, maybe 1/4 sim
[10:39] Sudane Erato: i have always wondered with Sandbox how it will be paid for
[10:39] Callipygian Christensen: you could check out Nemo to see what underwater worlds look like
[10:39] Keila Forager: I think a sandbox is an excellant idea
[10:39] Tor Karlsvalt: should be in the sky to avoid conflits between builds and themes
[10:39] Keila Forager: I have a LM to one in Fruit Islands
[10:39] Keila Forager: sandbox for sure in the skky
[10:39] Pip Torok: if we can pay for it of course
[10:40] Rose Springvale: Sudane, some of the thinking here is that we’d like to add value for our citizens who ‘ve contributed to the huge surplus, and bring in more people along the way
[10:40] Rose Springvale: does anyone think we cannot afford a sandbox?
[10:40] Keila Forager: and you can rent out space for advertising
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: I think a sanbox would but us higher in seach for people to drop in
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: find us and buy land
[10:40] Arria Perreault: about this, I agree with Rose
[10:40] Tor Karlsvalt: true, we could have and ad board.
[10:40] Arria Perreault: it is an infrastructure we can afford
[10:40] Pip Torok: with respect its the continuity of revenue for the sandbox that worries me
[10:40] Rose Springvale: thanks.
[10:41] Rose Springvale: Pip, look at our budget
[10:41] Keila Forager: OK, if we have a new mountain area…with a sandbox..and make it a park like setting…
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: Sandboxes are frequented by many people
[10:41] Rose Springvale: mountains for sandbox? hmm. THAT could be interesting
[10:41] Keila Forager: put the sandbox in the sky and have our mountain area
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: some would buy
[10:41] Wasp Thor: Most of the big sandboxes have stores around them to make money
[10:41] Rose Springvale: we could add skiing too
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: we could offer advantages to citizens
[10:41] Pip Torok: yes … a good surplus for now … i ‘m thinking of the future …
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: like longer rezz time
[10:41] Callipygian Christensen: a sandbox in the sky is optimal for building..but does nothing to get people to see the sims
[10:41] Keila Forager: it wouldln’t have to be a full sim
[10:41] Callipygian Christensen: people will TP in and out of it
[10:41] Arria Perreault: why not to have both? water sim and mountains?
[10:42] Cindy Ecksol agrees with calli
[10:42] Rose Springvale: i could see us doing both
[10:42] Keila Forager: true…but set the landing point on the ground..
[10:42] Sudane Erato: wouldn’;t the use of the sandbox be restricted to just our citizens?
[10:42] Rose Springvale: but i would put the sandbox on the ground
[10:42] Lilith Ivory: that´s a good idea
[10:42] Tor Karlsvalt: well we could have the landing point on the gound and teleporter to the sandbox
[10:42] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:42] Rose Springvale: especially if its a mountain
[10:42] Rose Springvale: and i wouldn’t limit to just citizens
[10:42] Keila Forager: If the sandbox is limited , then it’s basically useless for bringing in new people
[10:42] Rose Springvale: there is no place to practice building on a mountainside
[10:42] Callipygian Christensen: put the sandbox underwater
[10:42] Pip Torok: wd agree with Sudane re sandbox
[10:43] Rose Springvale: we can put autoreturn on in that sim
[10:43] Arria Perreault: still a remark with NFS East: how do you see the issue of the gap under NFS East ?
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: i would not limit to citizens, but we could have citizens with extra rights maybe
[10:43] Rose Springvale: perhaps this sandbox mountain could go next to AM
[10:43] Keila Forager: a sandbox should be open to all…
[10:43] Tor Karlsvalt: eventually fill it in with AM EAST
[10:43] Arria Perreault: we will have an ugly visual gap
[10:43] Rose Springvale: on the east
[10:43] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:43] Arria Perreault: look the model
[10:43] Wasp Thor: You can’t limit a sandbox if you need money to support it
[10:43] Rose Springvale: that lets us plan for nfs east in the next round
[10:43] Keila Forager: we have an ugly visual gap on NFS west right now..
[10:43] Callipygian Christensen: set it for anyone to build..and only residents to run scripts and not have their stuff returned in the auto return..its an incentive to become a citizen
[10:43] Cindy Ecksol notes that we already have such a gap
[10:44] Keila Forager: that won’t work Calli
[10:44] Pip Torok: has there been a history of sandboxes being crowded out by “non-citizens”?
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: yes, Calli i was thinking along those lines.
[10:44] Keila Forager: Builders need to have scripts running
[10:44] Rose Springvale: maybe two sandboxes
[10:44] Arria Perreault: yes, we should fill before to go east
[10:44] Rose Springvale: one for anyone, then one for citizens. sims are big
[10:44] Arria Perreault: CDS is in two bands …
[10:44] Rose Springvale: then ski lodge and mountain chalets
[10:44] Tor Karlsvalt: I think skybeam has multiple sandboxes, some for citizens.
[10:45] Rose Springvale: the problem with nfs west is that .. i don’t know what you’d do with it?
[10:45] Rose Springvale: what would you build there?
[10:45] Rose Springvale: more AM builds?
[10:45] Rose Springvale: or would you put the sandbox there and just landscape?
[10:45] Arria Perreault: an area of cottages like AM and also a ski slope
[10:45] Lilith Ivory loves Mountain chalets
[10:45] Keila Forager: Don’t we already have a ski slope
[10:45] Rose Springvale: i guess the sandbox could be there
[10:45] Tor Karlsvalt likes mountains too
[10:45] Arria Perreault: we could have a ski slope on 2 sims
[10:45] Cindy Ecksol: thinking about the sandbox. so…if our intention is to encourage people to become citizens and to ensure that the sandbox is “well behaved” and a nice place to work….makes sense to establish a special “role” in CDS. More than “friend of” but not a citizen….
[10:46] Arria Perreault: the sand box could be there, yes
[10:46] Tor Karlsvalt has a problem tho cuz he likes everything.
[10:46] Rose Springvale: sudane, would that physically work? is there any reason building wise at that level?
[10:46] Keila Forager: But if you need to be in a group to build in the sandbox…it will keep people away..
[10:46] Pip Torok: “sandboxer”? …
[10:46] Cindy Ecksol: would require a direct contact with a CDS citizen (to get the privilege) but wouldn’t be onerous — many of us could be authorized to add a new av to the group with tha tprivilege
[10:46] Keila Forager: no reason to come here and use up a group space
[10:46] Rose Springvale: i’d make it public honestly
[10:47] Rose Springvale: and just do auto return
[10:47] Cindy Ecksol: Keila, it may keep some away….but I think those looking for a quiet place to build might appreciate it
[10:47] Sudane Erato: i think you can assign a build ability to a group role… but i’m not sure
[10:47] Keila Forager: In Fruit Islands we have a public sandbox with 24 hours return…
[10:47] Rose Springvale: i think you can too, and taht could exempt the group from autoreturn
[10:47] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:47] Cindy Ecksol: still do autoreturn and so on, but it would mean that people building there would be certain to have at least minimal contact with CDS citizens
[10:47] Rose Springvale: leaving the public with whatever we decided
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: I agree on public
[10:48] Rose Springvale: well, theoretically, we can sell ourselves when we get contact
[10:48] Lilith Ivory: we might find some citizens who want to volunteer in the sandbox
[10:48] Rose Springvale: okay, so that’s two good ideas
[10:48] Tor Karlsvalt: and some of us have to go elsewhere to build, so more of us will be in CDS and available for contact
[10:48] Lilith Ivory: maybe even give building lessons
[10:48] Rose Springvale: three if we count Nfs east
[10:48] Keila Forager: and you have info signs up and notecard givers
[10:48] Rose Springvale: and the new subscribo matic
[10:48] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:48] Arria Perreault: for the financing of the sandbox, I have a suggestion
[10:48] Rose Springvale: other ideas?
[10:48] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[10:48] Rose Springvale: lets save financing for the next level of meetings!
[10:49] Wasp Thor: I agree, a sandbox with too many rules is a waste of time and space. A simple time return is all you need
[10:49] Pip Torok: who do we have who can and wish to teach building skills?
[10:49] Rose Springvale: lots of people
[10:49] Arria Perreault: what are the 3 good idea?
[10:49] Rose Springvale: jon used to do great classes
[10:49] Pip Torok: agree with Wasp
[10:49] Keila Forager: I agree Rose
[10:49] Rose Springvale: keila can teach
[10:49] Keila Forager: and I have too
[10:49] Rose Springvale: all the guild
[10:49] Rose Springvale: brian
[10:49] Arria Perreault: I think Atlantis is a good idea too
[10:49] Rose Springvale: yes
[10:49] Cindy Ecksol notes that since she’s been here, no one has taught building
[10:49] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe those memers would be more active with a decent sb
[10:49] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:49] Keila Forager: I’ve asked about that Cindy
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: personally I’d love some lessons….
[10:50] Keila Forager: said there were classes , but have never seen any
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: me too
[10:50] Pip Torok: me too!
[10:50] Keila Forager: Rosie too
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: jsut took a lesson at NCI this morning
[10:50] Rose Springvale: we can work on that Cindy. Faculty had that job, but has been inactive
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: Rosie maybe too
[10:50] Arria Perreault: Faculty has tried …
[10:50] Rose Springvale: i know moon has done some professional seminars
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: I can build….but I would love to work with someone on building BIG things….
[10:50] Keila Forager: I love taking classes..and working on writing up a few classes to teach
[10:50] Sudane Erato: yeah , no one wants to volunteer in the Guild to be Faculty organizer
[10:51] Sudane Erato:
[10:51] Arria Perreault: I have even organized a course once
[10:51] Wasp Thor: Atlantis was a Greek myth about a city in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean that sank in pre history. It can be a Greek theme
[10:51] Arria Perreault: yesssss
[10:51] Keila Forager: neptune
[10:51] Sudane Erato: Wasp, but that Atlantis was above water!
[10:51] Tor Karlsvalt: Remember the movie, it was sort of multi-cultural
[10:51] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:52] Arria Perreault: at the beginning, Sudane
[10:52] Keila Forager: but I was thinking of the sunk city..LOL
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: I think the idea of the movie that atlantis was a beginning of all our cultures.
[10:52] Arria Perreault: Tor, the reference is not the movie, but Plato
[10:52] Pip Torok: but Tor multicultural amounts to non-cultural!
[10:52] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:52] Rose Springvale: okay, so we have right now, Atlantis, with or without extra water, we have a sandbox/ mountain sim, and we have NFS east
[10:52] Tor Karlsvalt: well I jsut a thought, i liked the movie when a kid
[10:52] Arria Perreault: it was a kingdom above the sea, but the gods has destroyed it
[10:53] Rose Springvale: other ideas anyone wants to throw out?
[10:53] Arria Perreault: a lot of people have tried to find the remains under the sea in my places
[10:53] Rose Springvale: i heard bermuda triangle lol
[10:53] Lilith Ivory giggles
[10:53] Arria Perreault: for example
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: haha, we could do bermuda.
[10:53] Tor Karlsvalt: haha
[10:53] Pip Torok: can we get clues from Santorini??
[10:53] Arria Perreault: or Santorini
[10:54] Tor Karlsvalt: i read that too.
[10:54] Arria Perreault:
[10:54] Rose Springvale: send all the politicians we don’t want anyomre there lol
[10:54] Arria Perreault: the most serious hypothesis
[10:54] Tor Karlsvalt: One of the islands cna be a vulcano, hence mtn
[10:54] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[10:54] Rose Springvale: santorini has been done in sl a few times
[10:54] Arria Perreault: Plato has mde a fascinating desription of the town
[10:54] Pip Torok: the UK wd fill it up with ours then!
[10:54] Keila Forager gave you Snapshot : Keila’s Hideaway Cay, Kiwano (90, 208, 17).
[10:55] Tor Karlsvalt thinks he will have to check the free books available on iBooks
[10:55] Arria Perreault: I can put it in the library of the Monastery, if you want
[10:55] Arria Perreault: it is mentionned in 2 books of Plato, Timeus and Critias
[10:55] Pip Torok: hmmm … how about an island with Pompey and Mount Etna smoking ominously??
[10:55] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:55] Arria Perreault:
[10:56] Tor Karlsvalt: haha and a sim blaster
[10:56] Arria Perreault: we have already one villa
[10:56] Rose Springvale: Torin did that in Roma a while back
[10:56] Arria Perreault: we can make the volcano above the Monastery
[10:56] Sudane Erato: hehe
[10:56] Rose Springvale: a volcano in the alps??
[10:56] Sudane Erato: it might destroy all the maunscripts!
[10:56] Arria Perreault: we are in SL
[10:56] Lilith Ivory: maybe next to the roman sims
[10:56] Arria Perreault: everything is possible
[10:57] Rose Springvale: hehe, maybe the monastery … :: ducks::
[10:57] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:57] Automatic Owl Guided Tour Rezzer 2.1: Position Coords Received from vehicle
[10:57] Rose Springvale: okay, pip, do you want that included as an idea?
[10:57] Arria Perreault: it was a joke …
[10:57] Pip Torok: lets say a semijoke …
[10:57] Arria Perreault: I only want a long ski slope
[10:58] Arria Perreault: there are systems to count the time
[10:58] Arria Perreault: it can be fun
[10:58] Wasp Thor: Are we seriously considering a sandbox?
[10:58] Keila Forager: Has anyone been to Tahoa…they did have an awesome snow tubing and bobsled run..
[10:58] Pip Torok: yes Wasp …
[10:59] Arria Perreault: yes (I had even an idea to finance it)
[10:59] Rose Springvale: okay, our time is up for today
[10:59] Rose Springvale: thank you all for participating!
[10:59] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yw
[10:59] Rose Springvale: i expect we will have a few more of these sessions, then talk in RA
[10:59] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:59] Lilith Ivory: good idea
[10:59] Arria Perreault: fine for me
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: I enjoyed this conversation.
[11:00] Rose Springvale: RA members, bring your feasiblity questions on Thursday, moon adamant will be available for most of the time
[11:00] Pip Torok: will you publish this transcript Rose?
[11:00] Rose Springvale: yes
[11:00] Rose Springvale: provided no one said anything while i was crashed!
[11:00] Pip Torok: good!
[11:00] Tor Karlsvalt: no you were not gone long.
[11:00] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:00] Lilith Ivory: I can give you the missing part
[11:00] Soro Dagostino: Volcanos and water . . . Like Stromboli?
[11:00] Wasp Thor: we said nice things about you
[11:01] Wasp Thor: hahahahaha
[11:01] Soro Dagostino: North of Sicily . . .
[11:01] Pip Torok: yes … makes life exciting ….
[11:01] Rose Springvale: Everyone, enjoy oktoberfest, i think there is a ballon festival starting soon

 

Permalink.

RA Meeting 7 October 2010

Transcript, RA meeting October 7, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:11 pm
[12:05] Rose Springvale: I will go ahead and open here while we wait for others to come, as you see we have afull agenda
[12:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … as usual
[12:06] Rose Springvale: Welcome, and remember that we are transcripting.
[12:06] Lilith Ivory: Hi Arria
[12:06] Pip Torok: hi Arria …!
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Lilith
[12:06] Mikelo Serevi: she made it
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Mikelo
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Pip
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Rose
[12:06] Mikelo Serevi: hi
[12:06] Arria Perreault: Hi Muhammed
[12:06] Rose Springvale: I apologize for the mixup last week, my rl client wouldn’t stop talking. We will entertain concerns of citizens now. Hi Arria
[12:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi
[12:07] Arria Perreault: Hi Keila
[12:07] Rose Springvale: i see we have some citiznes here today.. anyone want to speak?
[12:07] Fern Leissa: No thank you
[12:07] Jeroma Wycliffe: No concerns here
[12:07] Arria Perreault: Hi Jeroma
[12:07] Arria Perreault: Hi Fern
[12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi citizens!)
[12:07] Jeroma Wycliffe: Hi Arria
[12:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi Arria!)
[12:07] Rose Springvale: ahhh, nice to have happy citizens
[12:07] Keila Forager: Hi everyone…sorry was afk
[12:07] Fern Leissa: Hi everyone
[12:07] Arria Perreault: Hi Gwyn
[12:07] Rose Springvale: any RA members in your role as citizens?
[12:08] Lilith Ivory: Hi Jamie
[12:08] Jamie Palisades nods, smiles, listens
[12:08] Arria Perreault: Hi Jamie
[12:08] Keila Forager: Hi Jamie
[12:08] Mikelo Serevi: howdy, stranger
[12:08] Rose Springvale: hello Jamie. we are taking concerns of citizens if you have any
[12:08] Jamie Palisades: Nhot a one, I;m sure our government is handling everything just fine.
[12:08] Jamie Palisades: But thanks.
[12:09] Rose Springvale: well, if no one has concerns, is there any objection to jumping right in with the business of the day?
[12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (nice to see you, Jamie!)
[12:09] Keila Forager: No objection
[12:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no objections…
[12:09] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:09] Lilith Ivory: all happy bunnies
[12:09] Rose Springvale: okay… Any additions or corrections to the agenda?
[12:10] Rose Springvale: i don’t think we have any 7 day votes to report..
[12:10] Rose Springvale: so we will happily hop into commission reports
[12:10] Rose Springvale: Lilith?
[12:10] Lilith Ivory: I sheduled another Commerce meeting today
[12:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: very good
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: it will take place at thuesday 10am in the termae
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: hope that works for you
[12:11] Kaseido Quandry: thanks, Rose!
[12:11] Rose Springvale: hi Kas. great Lilith. Any feedback on the direct tp?
[12:11] Arria Perreault: Hi Kas
[12:11] Lilith Ivory: we´re going to make a list of ideas we had already
[12:11] Kaseido Quandry: hi Arria
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: and try to find out how to make them work
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: done
[12:12] Rose Springvale: thanks.
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (love you, Kas
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[12:12] Kaseido Quandry: lol, sorry Gwyn!
[12:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wasn’t complaining
[12:12] Kaseido Quandry:
[12:12] Lilith Ivory: Hi Kas
[12:13] Rose Springvale: Tor is not able to be here today, so we’ll skip finance.
[12:13] Rose Springvale: unless someone else is reporting?
[12:13] Kaseido Quandry: hi Lil
[12:13] Kaseido Quandry: I’m trying to figure out Viewer 2, so please excuse my spazziness
[12:13] Rose Springvale: smiles at just in time Kas.. do you have a comms report?
[12:13] Keila Forager: Good luck..hehe
[12:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh congrats on your courage!
[12:14] Kaseido Quandry: no choice – the TOS bug has me locked out of Imprudence
[12:14] Kaseido Quandry: Um… yes!
[12:14] Rose Springvale: you have the floor
[12:14] Keila Forager: log in with regular sl viewer, then log in with immprudence..
[12:14] Keila Forager: that’s what I did
[12:14] Mikelo Serevi: once you click ok, you can come back in with imprudence, I’m sure
[12:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[12:14] Kaseido Quandry: OK, at the last comms meeting we… did stuff, and had a recommendation
[12:14] Pip Torok: TOS bug? :-0
[12:14] Kaseido Quandry: oh, thanks, Mikelo, Keila!
[12:15] Rose Springvale: stuff and recommendation?
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry: Um, can we come back to me once I remember what we *did* last meeting? sorry!
[12:15] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:15] Lilith Ivory giggles
[12:15] Rose Springvale: surrrrre
[12:15] Kaseido Quandry headdesks
[12:15] Rose Springvale: i know gwyn is excited to get started anyway
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I am? lol
[12:16] Rose Springvale: Note cards with proposed legislation and agenda in the box for anyone who needs it
[12:16] Rose Springvale: yes, you are almost finished!
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whew I hope so
[12:16] Rose Springvale: so … campaign act, take 5
[12:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should I repeat the reasoning for the current proposal?
[12:17] Rose Springvale: sure, for the record
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right. So… this is actually a proposal a bit “outside” the Election Commission
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As you remember, *every* time we discuss this,
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: either in the commission,
[12:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or at the RA,
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s clear that we’re cleanly split among the ones that want free-for-all campaigning,
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the ones that want at least some rules and guidelines to establish “common sense”
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The latter have brought up better arguments
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Namely… if we don’t restrict group notices to any citizem
[12:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: why should we restrict it to *candidates*?
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If anyone can announce events,
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: why can’t candidates do the same?
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then, philosophically,
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: how can we stick to the pillar of freedom of expression,
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but limit what and how campaigning has to be done?
[12:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The last argument — “campaigning will deface our community and merchants will be hurt, because it will drive consumers away”,
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: was pretty much shattered
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: when some of us pointed out that we have so little traffic anyway…
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: this proposal is pretty much an attempt to establish free-for-all campaigning,
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but remind to candidates,
[12:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that at least SOME things are restricted in spite of everything.
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Spamming is disallowed by the ToS — LL imposes that, not us
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we cannot accept spamming.
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We cannot wildly deface the community with signs, banners, flags
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: there are Covenants which say what can be done and how
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and there is an Executive to check on this
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: on the other hand,
[12:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we cannot “restrict” freedom of expression,
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but we are allowed to check that at least some common sense prevails.
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This “check” is not contrary to the spirit of the UDHR; in fact, the UDHR explicitly states that
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. some radical forms of “freedom of expression” like griefing to attack political adversaries etc. will NOT be allowed
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Note….
[12:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pretty much everything on this proposal,
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is “in force” right now.
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This is mostly a “reminder” of the facts, not exactly a “change of legislation”.
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two things are, indeed, changes.
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: First, campaigning restrictions were set up on the Coinstitution.
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We need to repeal that article.
[12:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Secondly, it was not clear how long campaigning lasts. Sticking to tradition,
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which commonly interpreted campaigning to be two weeks
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one before pools open,
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one during open polls,
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *booths
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: this Act clarifies that “assumption” and re-states that the campaigning is for 2 weeks
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think that’s pretty much everything… as an intro… now let the discussion begin
[12:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[12:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn bows
[12:25] Rose Springvale: nice recap gwyn!
[12:25] Rose Springvale: discussion?
[12:25] Pip Torok: hands up
[12:25] Keila Forager: I’m good
[12:25] Rose Springvale: pip
[12:25] Arria Perreault: /raises hand
[12:25] Rose Springvale: go on pip, then arria
[12:26] Pip Torok: imo there wd be “good taste” etc … because anything else wd lose votes for the candidate
[12:26] Pip Torok: done
[12:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[12:26] Rose Springvale: thanks pip
[12:26] Rose Springvale: Arria?
[12:26] Mikelo Serevi raises hand
[12:27] Arria Perreault: yes
[12:27] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, are you talking about the Campaigning article we voted in the 12th RA?
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that too. Maybe this would have to add a line,
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that “this act supercedes NL 12-???”
[12:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sadly, that bill was not published on the Code of Laws when I tried to find it
[12:28] Arria Perreault: this articles did not pass. I have asked the SC about the validity of the bill that came with. The SC has decided that the bill is valid, but with a restriction (about its role, I think)
[12:29] Rose Springvale thinks that would make it more clear. a lot of confusion on that issue
[12:29] Rose Springvale: adding the supercede language
[12:29] Arria Perreault: must be somewhere on the forum
[12:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Arria. If we can get the law’s correct number, I move to add: 5. This act supercedes NL 12-???
[12:29] Arria Perreault: but if we abrogate it today, it’s ok
[12:30] Rose Springvale: done arria?
[12:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’ll give teh RA Archivist a chance to look it up and number it correctly
[12:30] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:30] Rose Springvale: Mikelo?
[12:30] Mikelo Serevi: It sounds like a reasonable proposal, only, if it’s the same as what we have, why change it?
[12:31] Arria Perreault: NL 12-2 (but it’s not on the portal, only in the forum)
[12:31] Mikelo Serevi: or rather, we could amend the current
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh no… wait… not “the same”, mikelo!
[12:31] Pip Torok: Mikelo … presumably it formalises it
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me explain.
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We could have a one-line act,
[12:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: saying “NL 12-2 is deleted”
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (plus Const. amendmem)
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or we could have just one line,
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. Campaigning starts officially two weeks before the last election day.
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (a needed clarification, because it’s not obvious)
[12:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 2. This act supercedes NL 12-2
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However, one of our founding principles,
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: long neglected…
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: yes, I agree it should be clarified
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … is that bills also should educate and clarify
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus the longer wording, of things that *should* be obvious and *are* in effect.
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also,
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it points to one thing that worried the citizens
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: who oversees everything?
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… this mentions: “Covenants have to be respected”
[12:33] Mikelo Serevi: yes, that was my other question
[12:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Overseeing: Executive (by law)
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It also mentions…. “we have to respect public order”
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Overseeing: Executive; appeal to SC (also in law)
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It mentions… we forbid griefing, spamming, libel, defamation
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Overseeing: SC
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, griefing is SC
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: griefing is Exec hehe sorry
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn is slowly getting confused
[12:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: this act, by “refreshing our collective memories”
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: I get what you mean though, the recourse is clear
[12:35] Pip Torok: isnt griefing TOS?
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: also implies oversight by the branches
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[12:35] Rose Springvale: okay ? others?
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pip: yes! So the Exec can immediately kick, ban, AR (but the citizen can recourse to the SC)
[12:35] Mikelo Serevi: although I was specifically wondering how we define spamming
[12:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We don’t. We use LL’s interpretation.
[12:36] Mikelo Serevi: people have different thresholds
[12:36] Pip Torok: do they mikelo … not to LL at least!
[12:36] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks. Any other comments?
[12:37] Rose Springvale: if not, i’ll entertain a motion
[12:37] Rose Springvale: and i think it needs to be two part
[12:37] Rose Springvale: the constitutional amendment, then the act
[12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LL ToS: “8.3 You agree that you will not post or transmit Content or code that may be harmful, impede other users’ functionality, invade other users’ privacy, or surreptitiously or negatively impact any system or network.” with (ii) Post or transmit unsolicited or unauthorized advertising, or promotional materials, that are in the nature of “junk mail,” “spam,” “chain letters,” “pyramid schemes,” or any other form of solicitation that Linden Lab considers to be of such nature;”
[12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with the procedure, Rose. Two parts
[12:38] Rose Springvale: I’ll note with regret that Timo has resigned from the RA, so we sit as a 12 member body. 2/3 vote required to pass the constitutional amendment, so 8 votes
[12:38] Mikelo Serevi: oh, so LL reserves the right to define it
[12:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Mikelo)
[12:38] Mikelo Serevi: which doesn’t answer my question
[12:38] Mikelo Serevi: but, I think realistically, we’ll know it when we see it
[12:38] Pip Torok: yes Mikelo .. and has always done so
[12:39] Rose Springvale: so … need a motion?
[12:40] Rose Springvale: or …. not i guess…
[12:40] Rose Springvale: gwyn do you want to move it onto the floor?
[12:40] Mikelo Serevi: gwyn must be afk
[12:40] Kaseido Quandry: Move to delete Article IV, section 4 of the Constitution?
[12:40] Rose Springvale: thanks
[12:40] Pip Torok: second
[12:40] Rose Springvale: though is it a question or a motion kas?
[12:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds and apologises for being momentarily afk
[12:41] Kaseido Quandry: Um, if I got it right, that’s a motion
[12:41] AA Express: 0:particles on
[12:41] Rose Springvale: great. Further discussion?
[12:41] Rose Springvale: ready to vote?
[12:41] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[12:41] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure
[12:41] Pip Torok: aye
[12:41] Rose Springvale: seeing no typing… All in favor please signify by saying aye
[12:41] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:41] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:41] Keila Forager: aye
[12:41] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[12:41] Pip Torok: aye
[12:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[12:41] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[12:41] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:42] Rose Springvale: wonderful, thank you, as its constitutional i’ll register aye as well
[12:42] Rose Springvale: motion carries
[12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: woo hoo
[12:42] Rose Springvale: one more step gwyn
[12:42] AA Express: 0:particles off
[12:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true
[12:42] AA Express: 0:particles on
[12:42] Rose Springvale: want to move the act please?
[12:42] AA Express: 0:particles off
[12:42] AA Express: 0:particles on
[12:42] AA Express: 0:particles off
[12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sure… move to approve Campaigning Act, as per the following text (note point 5. as a friendly amendment)
[12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. Campaigning starts officially two weeks before the last election day.
2. Candidates are encouraged to use good taste and common sense in conducting campaigns. Campaigning is an act of peaceful assembly and the exercise of freedom of expression and thus protected by Articles 19 and 20 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
3. Campaigning is only restricted by other existing laws, namely:
a. The Linden Lab Terms of Service and Community Standards (which forbid griefing and spamming);
b. The CDS Covenants (which limit the defacing of buildings and public spaces);
c. UDHR Article 12 (which forbids defamation and libel);
d. UDHR Article 29 (2) (which allows restrictions to be set by law to give due recognition and respect for the rights and freedoms of others and comply with requirements of morality, public order and the general welfare in a democratic society);
4. Candidates are encouraged to announce their events and meetings via the Public
[12:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 5. This Act supercedes NL 12-2
[12:43] Rose Springvale: second?
[12:43] Kaseido Quandry: second
[12:43] Pip Torok: second
[12:43] Rose Springvale: further discussion?
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: it’s well-written, gwyn
[12:44] Rose Springvale: if not, simple majority is all that is needed, all in favor?
[12:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Mikelo
[12:44] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[12:44] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[12:44] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[12:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye
[12:44] Pip Torok: aye
[12:44] Keila Forager: aye
[12:44] Lilith Ivory: aye
[12:44] Rose Springvale: arria?
[12:44] Arria Perreault: aye
[12:45] Rose Springvale: thank you. Motion carries. Thank you gwyn
[12:45] Rose Springvale: nice work
[12:45] Kaseido Quandry: woohoo! Great work, Gwyn, thank you!
[12:45] Rose Springvale: and you did have to work on it!
[12:45] Rose Springvale: thank you to all the RA members for your patience and diligence on this.
[12:46] Rose Springvale: One more question to the elections commission chair, then we’ll give her a well deserved break
[12:46] Arria Perreault: may I a remark?
[12:46] Rose Springvale: We have approximately 5 meetings left in the term
[12:46] Kaseido Quandry: wow
[12:46] Rose Springvale: technically we should have a by election?
[12:46] Rose Springvale: and of course arria, one moment
[12:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah yes… because of Timo….
[12:47] Rose Springvale: realistically, i know the SC is meeting on the 13th i think
[12:47] Rose Springvale: suspect there isn’t time
Rose Springvale
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Re: Transcript, RA meeting October 7, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Thu Oct 07, 2010 2:14 pm
[12:47] Rose Springvale: ?
[12:47] Mikelo Serevi: its pretty close
[12:48] Rose Springvale: Arria go ahead please, no need to speculate i guess, SC jurisdiction on that
[12:48] Arria Perreault: we really need an updated election guide (as well for citizen as for candidates)
[12:48] Pip Torok: (hi Alexia)
[12:48] Arria Perreault: Hi Alexia
[12:49] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi
[12:49] Rose Springvale: i agree, as well as someone to do the STV explanation. No one has volunteered
[12:49] Rose Springvale: i’ve been told that Claude Desmoulins has done one for the SC though
[12:49] Arria Perreault: ok
[12:49] Rose Springvale: do you want to follow up ?
[12:50] Arria Perreault: follow up?
[12:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy also sort of volunteered once to do the STV FAQ….
[12:50] Rose Springvale: perhaps the communications commission, is that where the STV guide came from?
[12:50] Rose Springvale: okay.
[12:51] Kaseido Quandry: I’m pretty sure it was from Elections
[12:51] Rose Springvale: follow up… means ask those people if they are interested in doing a guide
[12:51] Kalnins InfoChannel owned by Maris Kanto gave you ‘Female Sandals – Flirt’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Copley%20Square/224/38/3457 ).
[12:51] Rose Springvale: yes, maybe
[12:51] Rose Springvale looks guiltily at gwyneth
[12:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn *coughs*
[12:51] Rose Springvale: maybe you could have a commission member folllow up
[12:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t understand it either hehe
[12:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but ok,
[12:51] Kaseido Quandry: lol, neither do I
[12:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll try to ask Cindy again if she’s willing; she seemed to be able to do STV maths in her dreams
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like Pat
[12:52] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: She got me great tips for the upcoming election!
[12:52] Rose Springvale: anything else from/for elections?
[12:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[12:52] Jamie Palisades choices on his tea. Dreaming in STV. That’s not a high recommendation for their quality of life.
[12:52] Rose Springvale: smiles
[12:52] Kaseido Quandry laughs
[12:52] Rose Springvale: okay, lets move on the Citizenship, we are doing well today
[12:52] Pip Torok: hi Jamie
[12:53] Rose Springvale: Arria, you have the floor
[12:53] Arria Perreault: thank you
[12:53] Rose Springvale: draft notecard is in the box
[12:53] Arria Perreault: I will make some remarks as introduction
[12:54] Arria Perreault: the Citizen Commission has hold three meetings.
[12:54] Arria Perreault: Our discussions were constructive.
[12:54] Arria Perreault: The result is the law we have to discuss
[12:55] Arria Perreault: there is no constitutionnal change
[12:55] Arria Perreault: the link between land and citizenship is still maintained, but it’s more flexible
[12:56] Arria Perreault: we have determined 3 ways to get citizenship
[12:56] Arria Perreault: to be an owner of a land anywhere in CDS
[12:57] Arria Perreault: like today
[12:57] Arria Perreault: then we have modified the group owned land citizenship of today
[12:58] Arria Perreault: this bill revocate the former one
[12:58] Arria Perreault: and finally it is possible to become citizen by sponsoring a part of public land
[12:59] Arria Perreault: in this version of the bill, the minimum part of land to be citizen is 256
[12:59] Arria Perreault: potentially, CDS could host 1280 citizen with it
[12:59] Arria Perreault: this value can be discussed
[13:00] Arria Perreault: because we have currently parcels of 128 msq
[13:00] Arria Perreault: we have also make sure that this bill could not endanger our finances, especially with sponsoring
[13:01] Arria Perreault: the RA will have to approve the list of parcels that can be sponsored
[13:02] Arria Perreault: finally we did not retain the possibility to give citizenship to partners
[13:02] Arria Perreault: it was discussed in the commission
[13:02] Arria Perreault: people have considered it could be solved with group
[13:02] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: great intro, Arria! Thanks!
[13:03] Rose Springvale: thank you Arria, again, great recap
[13:03] Rose Springvale: Discussion
[13:03] Keila Forager: /raises hand
[13:03] Pip Torok seconds gwyneth in this
[13:03] Rose Springvale: keila
[13:03] Keila Forager: I have a question. If I buy a parcel of land that is 128sqm or less from say Lilith, that I can erect a structure on, I still can not be a citizen per 11a. Is that correct??
[13:04] Rose Springvale: (quick count shows about 50 parcels in CDS that are below 256 m… 40 in nfs, about 10 in CN)
[13:04] Kaseido Quandry: No, I think you can’t be a citizen per (2)
[13:05] Arria Perreault: it is seen so in the law currently. people who owns such parcels can stay citizen
[13:05] Arria Perreault: but we can amend the law
[13:05] Arria Perreault: 256 is only for group and sponsor
[13:05] Keila Forager: but if I buy her land and she’s a citizen, the way it’s worded makes it sound like I can not be a citizen
[13:05] Kaseido Quandry: that’s not what it says now – have you changed your proposal?
[13:06] Keila Forager: and that is wrong.
[13:06] Kaseido Quandry: I read 11 as applying only to the grandfathered mini-parcels
[13:06] Arria Perreault: I suggest that we amend the law
[13:06] Arria Perreault: it’s still a proposal
[13:06] Kaseido Quandry is confused
[13:06] Rose Springvale: yes .. Arria did your commission intend that fachwerks in NFS not be citizen ship granting parcels?
[13:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn is also confused.
[13:07] Keila Forager: ok..no further questions from me..
[13:07] Arria Perreault: no, Rose
[13:07] Arria Perreault: and Calli has made a remark in the forum about that
[13:07] Keila Forager: I think all people OWNING a parcel should be citizens regardless of size
[13:07] Rose Springvale: tha’ts what the draft implies. so maybe you mean… only for group ownership purposes does the 256 minimum apply?
[13:07] Arria Perreault: and for sponsorship
[13:07] Kaseido Quandry: that doesn’t make much sense
[13:08] Rose Springvale: maybe we can look at this piece by piecs
[13:08] Keila Forager: 11.
a. The avatars who are citizen only by owning a parcel of 128 mq before the adoption of the current law stay CDS citizen. This citizenship is not transferable to the next owner of these parcels. The Executive has the right to buy the parcel for its official price.[/i] [13:08] Rose Springvale: lets focus first on straight outright ownership
[13:08] Keila Forager: says nothing about group
[13:08] Arria Perreault: or we can list the parcels of NFS and CN and consider as exceptions
[13:08] Rose Springvale: Any change intended thers?
[13:09] Kaseido Quandry: I think if the author of the bill doesn’t know what she wants to propose, this isn’t ready for consideration
[13:09] Rose Springvale: we are just discussing Kas, this is first reading
[13:09] Rose Springvale: and its hard
[13:09] Rose Springvale: so lets work together if we can?
[13:09] Kaseido Quandry: OK- but I think this is exactly what the committees are for
[13:09] Arria Perreault: we can change 2
[13:09] Rose Springvale: arria, lets go through one by one
[13:10] Lilith Ivory: imo we shouldkeep the small parcels in NFS and CN but go with bigger parcels for sponsoring
[13:10] Rose Springvale: does your commission want a change in regular singer avatar land ownership?
[13:10] Rose Springvale: single
[13:10] Rose Springvale: sorry
[13:10] Arria Perreault: 2. The smallest size for a parcel is 128 msq. The smallest size for a sponsored location or a part of a group-owned parcel is 256 mq.
[13:10] Rose Springvale: actually
[13:10] Rose Springvale: we have smaller parces than 128 too
[13:11] Arria Perreault: no, we did not change anything about single owner
[13:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins because she has one parcel smaller than 128 m2
[13:11] Arria Perreault: what is the smallest value?
[13:11] Pip Torok agrees with keila in that size shouldn’t matter
[13:11] Rose Springvale: i see 4 on the platz at 96 m
[13:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes!
[13:11] Arria Perreault: 2. The smallest size for a sponsored location or a part of a group-owned parcel is 256 mq.
[13:11] Rose Springvale: looking at the land charts here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key= … ET2c&gid=0
[13:12] Kaseido Quandry: What’s the rationale for different minimums?
[13:13] Arria Perreault: better not to mention a value for parcels of single owner …
[13:13] Rose Springvale: what is the current law pertainign to group minimums?
[13:14] Rose Springvale: seems like 128 is the law now, with some extra requirements?
[13:14] Arria Perreault: 128
[13:15] Rose Springvale: so that’s where that number comes from. And i think… reading between the lines, the commission wants to increase that minimum?
[13:15] Arria Perreault: we have to see how many citizen a group-owned parcel can make
[13:16] Arria Perreault: with 128, the Monastery parcel/group can provide citizenship to 24 people
[13:16] Arria Perreault: with 256, 12 people
[13:16] Rose Springvale: wouldn’t that be cool?
[13:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:16] Rose Springvale: more citizens!
[13:16] Arria Perreault: we have to decide
[13:17] Rose Springvale: what do you all thinkg? should we have the option to have more citizens even without more land?
[13:17] Arria Perreault: with this law, we can have potentially 1280 citizen
[13:17] Arria Perreault: of course, we can double this number
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, so long as it isn’t 16 m2 (the microparcels we used to have…) I’m fine with pretty much everything
[13:17] Rose Springvale: feels gwyn getting excited
[13:17] Pip Torok: imo no …. tho i’d like to hear arguments for this
[13:17] Kaseido Quandry:
[13:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn grins
[13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d be fine to raise the bar a little and set the minimum at 256 m2 as proposed (we’ll have to start *somewhere*)
[13:18] Keila Forager: As long as those citizens were active citizens and not just citizens to vote for “friends”
[13:18] Rose Springvale: i don’t think the founders intended us to be a democracy of land barons
[13:18] Pip Torok: exactly my point Keila
[13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye, Keila, but it’s incredibly hard to figure out who is an active citizen and who isn’t… for instance, I’m sure I’m NOT an active citizen!
[13:18] Rose Springvale: comparatively, you are one of the most active gwyn!
[13:18] Arria Perreault: it’s a danger, of course
[13:18] Keila Forager: yes you are Gwyn, you are part of the RA..
[13:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, having a few of those people in mind, I’m SURE that they didn’t want land barons hehe
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol @ Rose
[13:19] Arria Perreault: we have make sure everything is transparent
[13:19] Rose Springvale: so the question i have is… what is the risk?
[13:19] Pip Torok: well imo a citizen is active when they attend and speak at any RA meeting or commission meeting
[13:19] Arria Perreault: there will be lists
[13:19] Keila Forager: If a citizen is never seen at a meeting, or events or participating in activities or commissions or building on group land, they are not active
[13:19] Rose Springvale: what about writing on the forum
[13:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, the risk is having lots of people bring their friends in and get elected… but… isn’t that good, at the end of the day?
[13:19] Rose Springvale: that’s my point gwyn, seems like a win win to me
[13:19] Kaseido Quandry agrees with Gwyn
[13:20] Rose Springvale: you get people who are passionate
[13:20] Arria Perreault: both the owner and the future citizen have to notify to the Treasurer
[13:20] Pip Torok: i’d count that as long as they also are active inworld
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not against having passionate people, new people, who want to vote on their friends!
[13:20] Rose Springvale: we may not always agree.. but they support the project by their presence
[13:20] Mikelo Serevi: are we talking about enforcing participation?
[13:20] Arria Perreault: every citizen will get a tier box and has to come in-world to pay
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe I’m sure we aren’, Mikelo — and Arria, at least that, yes!
[13:20] Keila Forager: Niether am I Gwyn, but if that is their only purpose, I see that as the end of CDS as it was intended
[13:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They have to come inworld at leas once per month
[13:21] Rose Springvale: frankly, i’ve no problem with taxpayers who visit once in a while but keep up their tier… hehe
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know, Keila. The problem is less about “friends” (who are supposed to be active…) but “alts” or “dead accounts”
[13:21] Pip Torok: Mikelo … have you ever seen committee-members IRL sleeping at meetings? I have ….
[13:21] Arria Perreault: and the owner of the group cannot kick off a member, if he/she get citizenship this way
[13:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: true, Arria….
[13:21] Keila Forager: and what if they do Arria?
[13:21] Kaseido Quandry: wait, whoa –
[13:21] Rose Springvale: how can we enforce that though?
[13:22] Keila Forager: You can’t enforce a group?
[13:22] Kaseido Quandry: so that means group owners lose enforcement powers over their own membership?
[13:22] Rose Springvale: private groups
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: CDS-controlled groups?
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a possibility…
[13:22] Rose Springvale: so long as we have other options to retain citizenship
[13:22] Rose Springvale: i’m not sure we should worry about that
[13:22] Rose Springvale: groups should be autonomous
[13:22] Keila Forager: But group land doesn’t have to be related to CDS at all..
[13:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I know…
[13:23] Keila Forager: I had my group set on NFS
[13:23] Pip Torok: its for this reason that I was and am against group citizenship …
[13:23] Arria Perreault: in my opinion, if the owner of a group want to provide citizenship to people, he/she has rome duties regarding CDS laws
[13:23] Mikelo Serevi: it is a slippery slope, to be sure
[13:23] Keila Forager: And right now I’m a group citizen..and that group has nothing to do with CDS
[13:23] Rose Springvale: so … if we have sponsorships… do we need groups?
[13:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, for the record, I’m not a fan of group membership; however, in this case — as in many others — there is the will of the majority of the citizens to consider, and a LOT want groups
[13:23] Arria Perreault: the group has to own a land
[13:23] Rose Springvale: it just helps with tier i guess
[13:24] Arria Perreault: the group has to have a charter
[13:24] Rose Springvale: though with the fluctuation with the lindens… who knows?
[13:24] Pip Torok: but do a MAJORITY want groups, gwyn?
[13:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I didn’t ask them, Pip… Nevertheless we also protect minorities’ rights here
[13:24] Arria Perreault: 7b: The group which gives citizenship can decide the way it is organized. The organization and the possibility to get citizenship must be mentionned in the charter of the group. The charter and the member list of the group are public.
[13:24] Kaseido Quandry: Pip, there’s a difference between not wanting to be in a landowning group, and wanting to ban landowning groups
[13:24] Mikelo Serevi: I didn’t get the feeling too many wanted group citizenship
[13:25] Rose Springvale: Gwyn, do you think sponsorship option can replace groups?
[13:25] Rose Springvale: for citizenship purposes?
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was going to ask the same question….
[13:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:25] Pip Torok: I take your point, Kas
[13:25] Rose Springvale: i think it can too
[13:25] Keila Forager: My group had a charter..
[13:25] Kaseido Quandry: well, doesn’t that force people to pay twice?
[13:25] Rose Springvale: how Kas?
[13:25] Keila Forager: Keila’s Hideaway Cay is now Keila and Richie’s Hideaway Cay……A group created for the friends of Keila and Richie. Come and enjoy our piece of paradise in Kiwano. If you wish to join this group please IM Keila Forager or Richie Deschanel.[/i] [13:25] Kaseido Quandry: OK, say I deeded my property to group, and got a couple rommmates to help pay tier
[13:26] Keila Forager: that was my charter
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Perhaps we should ask Arria & the commission what they feel about that. How different would it be if all group members who wish to become citizens simply apply for sponsorship*
[13:26] Kaseido Quandry: Roomie is paying, say, 1/4 my tier, but isn’t a citizen – and if she wants citizenship, she has to buy into CDS *agian*
[13:26] Rose Springvale: i see one difference… CDS gets more money lol
[13:26] Rose Springvale: ah yes kas, makes sense
[13:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH, excellent argument, Kas…
[13:26] Arria Perreault: right, it will help to finance public infrastructure
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Double taxing, now that’s something I’m not happy with…
[13:27] Mikelo Serevi: I don’t think it’s that hard to just buy a parcel
[13:27] Rose Springvale looks at our bank balance ans isn’t worried about the infrastructure
[13:27] Kaseido Quandry: No, it’ll create a second class of nonvoting tier payers, in practice
[13:27] Rose Springvale: so… keep groups
[13:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… your argument is good, Kas… no way to get around that
[13:27] Keila Forager: Why buy a parcel if the only reason is to help with tier or vote
[13:27] Rose Springvale: but i don’t think we should legisltat groups
[13:28] Rose Springvale: if we have opportunities to sponsor, then group owners should be free to eject anyone they want
[13:28] Mikelo Serevi: If we do away with group citizenship, then we don’t have to worry about governing them
[13:28] Rose Springvale: they are the one losing the tier cotribution
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… in that case, Rose, what happens if someone is kicked out of a group but still wants to be a citizen?
[13:28] Arria Perreault: does want the RA replace group-owned parcels citizenship by sponsor citizenship?
[13:28] Kaseido Quandry: that’s a problem, Gwyn
[13:28] Rose Springvale: they pay for sponsorship then
[13:28] Rose Springvale: they wont’ have group tier responsibility
[13:28] Kaseido Quandry: mm, right
[13:28] Arria Perreault: Gwyn, it’s under 7b:
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[13:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know…
[13:28] Arria Perreault: the owner cannot put someone away in this case
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But the group owner can simply ignore it
[13:29] Arria Perreault: in this case, he is outlaw
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. imagine, they leave the CDS
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and ignore everything
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now one group member actually loves the CDS and wants to remain a citizen
[13:29] Rose Springvale: maybe a notificatiosn. but i can’t support telling group owners who they can and can’t eject
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but cannot affor a parcel (or none are for sale)
[13:29] Mikelo Serevi: so they buy a parcel
[13:29] Keila Forager: And if a group owner leaves with the land, so do all the group citizens.
[13:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* ok, Mikelo, you’re right
[13:30] Rose Springvale: but if sponsorship is the same cost as minimum group ownership, no loss to the citizen
[13:30] Kaseido Quandry nods
[13:30] Mikelo Serevi: I did like that sponsor idea, for people who don’t want to build
[13:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s what I was thinking too, Rose….
[13:30] Keila Forager: and land and tier in CDS is very expensive
[13:30] Kaseido Quandry: I agree, Mikelo, it’s nice
[13:30] Arria Perreault: in my opinion, this way will be not very attractive for land owners, because of the duties
[13:30] Rose Springvale: so this is not a bad mix, just need some tweaks
[13:30] Pip Torok: imo the principle of telling a group-owner who his/her members should be is a dangerous precedent (how does this square with LL and TOST btw?)
[13:30] Rose Springvale: well, i don’t think we should punish landowners
[13:31] Rose Springvale: people stop likeing each other all the time in sl
[13:31] Kaseido Quandry: Good question, Pip
[13:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I think that there is a strong feeling that we should strike 7 from the bill
[13:31] Keila Forager: We can not tell a group owner how to run their group..bottom line
[13:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 7b I mean
[13:31] Rose Springvale: and so long as we have a way for them to retain citizenship, there isn’t a good reason
[13:31] Rose Springvale: agrees with gwyn
[13:31] Rose Springvale: maybe
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So… with these two changes…. 256 m2 as the minimum for everything…. and 7b stricken down… can we agree on the rest
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
[13:32] Rose Springvale: when a group member is evicted, they can get an auto message at the tier box offering sponsorship citizenship
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes… a simple procedure
[13:32] Kaseido Quandry: nice!!
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one that can be automated
[13:32] Rose Springvale: well, so long as we agree that regardless of parcel size, land ownership = citizenship
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: definitely
[13:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I will not agree to anything else hehe
[13:33] Mikelo Serevi: I’d agree with that, within reason
[13:33] Mikelo Serevi: 128 is quite reasonable
[13:33] Rose Springvale: do we want to try to redraft or send back and look at it next week?
[13:33] Rose Springvale: we’ve still got a few minutes
[13:33] Keila Forager: I don’t agree with 11a
[13:33] Pip Torok: i would suggest that this be done
[13:34] Arria Perreault: about 7b, I suggest we erase only the first sentence
[13:34] Arria Perreault: the rest is about transparency
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Personally, I’m fine with just removing 7b and 256 m2
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you wish to retain the rest of 7b,
[13:34] Keila Forager: I think all of 7b needs to go
[13:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: then we should change “must” to “are encouraged to”
[13:34] Rose Springvale: shouldn’t the citizenship issues be dealt with by the treasurer? i think 7b goes too
[13:35] Kaseido Quandry: yes, strike it all
[13:35] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:35] Keila Forager: they shouldn’t have to add a refernce at all to CDS if it’s not a cds group
[13:35] Pip Torok: but “The group which gives citizenship can decide the way it( ?) is organised” is redundant ….
[13:35] Mikelo Serevi: so all of 7?
[13:35] Rose Springvale: there are groups where not all group members are citiznes
[13:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… 7a is ok, Mikelo
[13:35] Rose Springvale: all my land is in one
[13:36] Rose Springvale: 7a clarifies that there is no more need to do that land purchase and exchange thing
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[13:36] Rose Springvale: which has been a mess forever
[13:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[13:37] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I second motion to send back the proposal
[13:37] muhammedyussif Wikinger: to the commission
[13:37] Rose Springvale: was there a motion? i’m sorry i missed, i thought we wer redrafting
[13:37] Rose Springvale: who made the motion to send back
[13:37] Rose Springvale: ?
[13:37] Kaseido Quandry: I didn’t see a motion
[13:37] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Pip made a motion
[13:37] Pip Torok: muh meant the suggestion you made Rose
[13:38] muhammedyussif Wikinger:
[13:38] Pip Torok: no i didnt muh! )
[13:38] Rose Springvale: oh, well, i didn’t make a motion. i think we are almost there!
[13:38] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok – I wilöll wait
[13:38] Arria Perreault: I think I can quickly write the changes
[13:39] Pip Torok: I propose the document is sent back to the commission for redrafting
[13:39] muhammedyussif Wikinger: is that not a motion?
[13:39] Rose Springvale: i think so too arria, i think only three changes
[13:39] Pip Torok: (that is my motion)
[13:39] Rose Springvale: okay we’ve got a motion and second, but we think we can finish…
[13:40] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I second
[13:40] Rose Springvale: so all in favor of sending back, please indicate with aye
[13:40] Arria Perreault: what is the third?
[13:40] Rose Springvale: sending back now.
[13:40] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:40] Pip Torok: aye
[13:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: no — I’m fine in waiting for Arria’s changes
[13:40] Kaseido Quandry: no
[13:40] Keila Forager: no
[13:40] Lilith Ivory: nay
[13:40] Mikelo Serevi: nay
[13:40] Arria Perreault: nay
[13:40] muhammedyussif Wikinger: sigh
[13:40] Rose Springvale: motion fails.
[13:40] Rose Springvale: okay arria
[13:41] Arria Perreault: what is the third change?
[13:41] Arria Perreault: I have the 256, the 7b
[13:41] Rose Springvale: 11
[13:41] Rose Springvale: i think a can go
[13:41] Arria Perreault: right
[13:41] Rose Springvale: anyone see others?
[13:41] Arria Perreault: 11 a only?
[13:41] Arria Perreault: right
[13:41] Mikelo Serevi: there are people voting for $100L?
[13:42] Rose Springvale: yes, i think… two months seems fair
[13:42] Rose Springvale: have been for years mikelo
[13:42] Arria Perreault: it’s 2 terms in the bill
[13:42] Keila Forager: Yes Mikelo, I am
[13:42] Mikelo Serevi: ack
[13:42] Keila Forager: not only voting, but serving
[13:43] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:43] Mikelo Serevi: I guess this is a sort of sponsorship
[13:43] Rose Springvale: do you have it Arria?
[13:43] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:43] Arria Perreault: in 11, I keep 2 terms?
[13:44] Rose Springvale: i think two terms is fine… other thoughts on that ? transitional phase?
[13:44] Rose Springvale: not like we are hurting for that extra 150 L in cash
[13:44] Arria Perreault: ok
[13:44] Mikelo Serevi: right
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[13:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 150 here, 150 there… it all adds up
[13:45] Rose Springvale: lol
[13:45] Rose Springvale: to 11 K usd lol
[13:45] Arria Perreault: I have a notecard
[13:45] Rose Springvale: if you give it to me i’ll put it in the box
[13:45] Arria Perreault gave you Citizen Bill (October 2010) updated.
[13:45] Rose Springvale: now you can all pick it up,
[13:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh just for fun, what does “mq” stand for? I thought it would be “mètres carrés” but then it should be “mc”
[13:46] Rose Springvale: meters quared of course
[13:46] Rose Springvale:
[13:46] Kaseido Quandry giggles
[13:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meters quared. Right
[13:46] Rose Springvale: we will let the archivist fix the typos!
[13:46] Arria Perreault: yes
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please, it’s not important… if everybody knows and understands this is supposed to mean “squared metres”, I’m fine.
[13:47] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:47] Rose Springvale: this looks good to me. others see issues?
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and not any other measure… and we all get suddenly kicked out because it actually meant a completely different size!)
[13:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn shuts up
[13:48] Keila Forager: The rights of a group-owned parcel citizen on the parcel is defined in the group charter.
[13:48] Rose Springvale: smiels at gwyn and thinks of other things to send to the elections commission
[13:48] Keila Forager: I don’t think that needs to be there
[13:48] Mikelo Serevi: I’m not seeing where there’s a limit on how many to a group
[13:48] Rose Springvale: its precatory, but doesn’t hurt anything does it? I think it clarifies for outsiders a bit
[13:49] Rose Springvale: meters per parcel limit mikelo
[13:49] Keila Forager: as long as it doen’t require group owners to put in their charter..
[13:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes.
[13:49] Rose Springvale: must have 256 per person
[13:49] Mikelo Serevi: aha, ok, thx
[13:49] Arria Perreault: Monastery = 12 citizen
[13:50] Rose Springvale: personally, i’d welcome them!
[13:50] Mikelo Serevi: Sorry, I missed part of the discussion, someone came into my office
[13:50] Arria Perreault: it was an example
[13:50] Mikelo Serevi: 256 seems fair
[13:50] Rose Springvale: in the best situatiosn, thats’ 1200 L contribution at minimum from people to the landowner
[13:50] Rose Springvale: which gives people room to do things maybe
[13:51] Rose Springvale: any other comments on this draft?
[13:51] Rose Springvale: if not, maybe a motion?
[13:51] Keila Forager: No Rose, it’s 3K..group ownerhsip now 250L
[13:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: grins
[13:51] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:51] Rose Springvale raises rent on group members
[13:52] Rose Springvale: so….
[13:52] Rose Springvale: motions?
[13:52] Mikelo Serevi motions to pass arria’s proposal
[13:53] Keila Forager: motion to vote on Citizenship bill
[13:53] Mikelo Serevi: or to vote, right
[13:53] muhammedyussif Wikinger: second
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconds
[13:53] Arria Perreault:
[13:53] Rose Springvale: okay… smile so moved twice and seconded twice
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[13:53] Rose Springvale: further discussion?
[13:53] Rose Springvale: guessing that’s 4 votes in the bag lol
[13:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[13:53] Mikelo Serevi: lol
[13:54] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[13:54] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:54] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:54] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:54] Pip Torok: abstain
[13:54] Keila Forager: aye
[13:54] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[13:54] Rose Springvale: wake lilith up lol
[13:54] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn whisteles
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: aye
[13:54] Lilith Ivory: sorry
[13:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[13:55] Rose Springvale: hurray!
[13:55] Mikelo Serevi: I think I hear angels singing
[13:55] Rose Springvale: congratulations, we have passed a citizenship bill!
[13:55] Arria Perreault:
[13:55] Rose Springvale: nice job Arria!
[13:55] Mikelo Serevi passes out
[13:55] Keila Forager: Did you vote Rose?
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww I need to go in a hurry… congrats, Arria & the citizen commission, excellent work!
[13:55] Rose Springvale: i’ll vote aye, but not needed
[13:55] Arria Perreault: thank you
[13:55] Mikelo Serevi: thanks for all your work on this, arria
[13:55] Rose Springvale: thanks Gwyn
[13:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn pre-votes aye on adjourning and leaves in a hurry
[13:56] Rose Springvale: we are 5 minutes from closing time, and have not discussed the expansion projects
[13:56] Rose Springvale: want to table that?
[13:56] Arria Perreault: I also thank all the citizen who participated to the work of the Commission
[13:56] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[13:56] Kaseido Quandry: move to table
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: yes
[13:56] Rose Springvale: second?
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: 2nd
[13:56] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[13:56] Keila Forager: aye
[13:56] Pip Torok: i propose we table IV
[13:56] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[13:56] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:56] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[13:56] Pip Torok: aye
[13:57] Arria Perreault: (do we need new sims, now we can have 1280 citizen? )
[13:57] Rose Springvale: lol
[13:57] Rose Springvale: is that an aye to table arria?
[13:57] Mikelo Serevi: maybe some day
[13:57] Rose Springvale: oh yes
[13:57] Rose Springvale: smiles
[13:57] Arria Perreault: aye
[13:57] Rose Springvale: tabled to next meeting
[13:57] Rose Springvale: announcements?
[13:57] Rose Springvale: oh
[13:57] Rose Springvale: kas, did you have something on comms?
[13:57] Rose Springvale: maybe afk
[13:58] Kaseido Quandry: Um, I’ll schedule another meeting and do a full report next time
[13:58] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks
[13:58] Rose Springvale: announcements?
[13:58] Kaseido Quandry: we had an open issue to resolve
[13:58] Rose Springvale: okay
[13:58] Rose Springvale: i’d like to thank the Community for their work on Oktoberfest!
[13:59] Keila Forager: ditto
[13:59] Arria Perreault:
[14:00] Rose Springvale: we are nearly finished with our work this term, and i’m very proud of you all. thank you for your cooperation and your hard work
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: have to hurry to RL now
[14:00] Rose Springvale: if no one else has anything, we can adjourn
[14:00] Rose Springvale: it is time!
[14:00] Keila Forager: Yay…
[14:00] Arria Perreault: second
[14:00] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[14:00] Mikelo Serevi: aye
[14:00] Keila Forager: aye
[14:00] Arria Perreault: aye
[14:00] Lilith Ivory: aye
[14:00] Pip Torok: aye
[14:00] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[14:00] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[14:00] Rose Springvale: great work today, thank you all!
[14:00] Rose Springvale: taking the transcript

Permalink.

RA Meeting 30 October 2010

Transcript, RA meeting October 30, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:03 am
[9:14] Rose Springvale: thanks for coming. now we’ll come to order
[9:14] Arria Perreault: Hi Fern
[9:14] Fern Leissa: Hi Everyone
[9:14] Ulysse Alexandre: hello Gwyn
[9:14] Ulysse Alexandre: hello Fern
[9:14] Rose Springvale: i’ll remind everyone that we are transcripting, so if you speak it will be recorded. Thank you all for being here
[9:14] Kaseido Quandry: hi Gwyn
[9:14] Fern Leissa: Hi Ulysee
[9:14] Tor Karlsvalt runs to get coffee.
[9:14] Rose Springvale: This will be the last of our meetings before we are lame ducks, unless there is an objection to that
[9:15] Kaseido Quandry runs to get more coffee
[9:15] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:15] Kaseido Quandry doesn’t object.
[9:15] Keila Forager: No objection
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn quacks in assent.
[9:15] Rose Springvale: the matters on the agenda today are the three items we left hanging last week, and anything else you want to bring
[9:15] Tor Karlsvalt: b
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn wonders why we’ve been invaded by ozimals.
[9:16] Rose Springvale: they are bunzillas
[9:16] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:16] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘budget and accountability act’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: They oook uh…. vicious?
[9:16] Keila Forager: They are Frankenbunneh’s for halloween
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *look
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: right!
[9:16] Tor Karlsvalt wonders if any are a goose.
[9:16] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:17] Rose Springvale: any additions to the agenda?
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: uhm I only have the one from last time
[9:17] Rose Springvale: ah, well, that works
[9:17] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:18] Rose Springvale: we will do items IV v and VI
[9:18] Rose Springvale: i think
[9:18] Rose Springvale: unless someone has a report they want to give?
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have to report that I haven0’t anything to report
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Meaning we can skip III D
[9:18] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:19] Tor Karlsvalt slinks down into the bench.
[9:19] Arria Perreault: nothing to report form me
[9:19] Kaseido Quandry: nor here
[9:19] Rose Springvale: ladies and gentlemen…. before you go slinking around
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Uh oh lol
[9:19] Rose Springvale: you all did enormous and great work on your commissions
[9:19] Keila Forager: Ditto
[9:19] Keila Forager: ♪♪♪♪>~~~APPLAUSE~~~<

Permalink.

RA Meeting 23 October 2010

Transcript, RA meeting October 23, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:07 am
[9:04] Rose Springvale: let me announce that we are officially in session, that all CDS meetings are transcripted so if you speak, you consent to recording
[9:04] Rose Springvale: maybe someone could remind pip?
[9:05] Arria Perreault: I do
[9:05] Keila Forager: done/
[9:05] Rose Springvale: Any citizens have concerns they want to express?
[9:05] Keila Forager: Just wondering if CDS has a place at Burn2?
[9:06] Rose Springvale: not that i know of Keila, Apollo Manga is very involved, but i’m not sure if he’s in CDS anymore
[9:06] Rose Springvale: Does anyone else know?
[9:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: no
[9:06] Keila Forager: I know Jamie used to do and is the responsiblity of exec from what I’ve been told in past
[9:06] Keila Forager: too bad
[9:06] Rose Springvale: yes, jamie and i did it the past two years
[9:06] Keila Forager: Pip is coming
[9:07] Lilith Ivory: Hi Pip
[9:07] Rose Springvale: but the format changed this year.. it’s no longer a Linden sponsored event
[9:07] Keila Forager: It’s a great marketing tool and a lot of fun too. Some great displays
[9:07] Keila Forager: true
[9:07] Arria Perreault: it’s not forbidden, for citizen, to do something on their initiative …
[9:07] Rose Springvale: but oddly, not it has official endorsement from Biurning man
[9:07] Pip Torok: hi Lilith, hi everyone
[9:07] Arria Perreault: and ask for money to the exec
[9:07] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi
[9:07] Arria Perreault: Hi Pip
[9:07] Rose Springvale: Hi pip, thanks for joining us
[9:08] Pip Torok: are we quorate?
[9:08] Rose Springvale: True, but as a cds project, it really falls in the chancellors authority
[9:08] Ulysse Alexandre: Hello Pip
[9:08] Rose Springvale: now we are
[9:08] Pip Torok:
[9:08] Rose Springvale: Other concerns?
[9:08] Arria Perreault: what was the reward of such fairy?
[9:08] Arria Perreault: I did also when I was PIO
[9:08] Rose Springvale: I’d like to announce official condolences to Tor, who lost his mother last night
[9:09] Pip Torok: Hi Moon!!
[9:09] Moon Adamant: hello all
[9:09] Keila Forager: Oh no…
[9:09] Rose Springvale: hi Moon, thanks for coming
[9:09] muhammedyussif Wikinger: agree
[9:09] Kaseido Quandry: oh no – last I heard she was doing better
[9:09] Lilith Ivory nods
[9:09] Rose Springvale: she took a bad turn yesterday and passed away around 6 :30 central time
[9:09] Pip Torok: oh no … mine cndolences too
[9:10] Arria Perreault: sincere condoleances
[9:10] Rose Springvale: I”m sure he will read these minutes and appreciate your kind thoughts
[9:10] Pip Torok: madame lra I propose sending a note of condolences from the CDS
[9:10] Arria Perreault: second
[9:10] Keila Forager: second pip
[9:10] Kaseido Quandry: hear hear
[9:10] Rose Springvale: well, i dont’ know that we are in the sending notes businss… who would you have do that?
[9:11] Moon Adamant: i have spoken to Tor already, he has my full sympathy
[9:11] Pip Torok: i think this wd be an appropriate way to start …
[9:11] Rose Springvale: i think it is better if we all do our own notes. But if you’d like to do one on behalf of CDS, please do Pip
[9:11] Pip Torok: shall do ….
[9:11] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[9:11] Rose Springvale: lol
[9:11] Pip Torok: aye
[9:11] Keila Forager: aye
[9:11] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[9:12] Lilith Ivory nods
[9:12] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[9:12] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:12] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:12] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks, Pip
[9:12] Rose Springvale: We are still in the citizens concerns section of the meeting… and have a full agenda.
[9:12] Rose Springvale: Are there other concerns from the citizens?
[9:13] Pip Torok: Hi Delia …
[9:13] Arria Perreault: Hi Delia
[9:13] Lilith Ivory: hi Delia
[9:13] Ulysse Alexandre: Hello Delia
[9:13] Rose Springvale:
[9:13] Delia Lake: good day everyone
[9:13] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hi
[9:13] Rose Springvale: have any citizens concerns Delia?
[9:13] Delia Lake: not that i think of today ty
[9:14] Rose Springvale: okay. Then lets move to the agenda. Thank you all for coming. There is a copy of the Agenda and the acts under consideration in the box on the table
[9:14] Delia Lake: i might mention that some people may be having difficulty getting here
[9:14] Rose Springvale: oh? bad again?
[9:14] Delia Lake: i could not tp. had to log off and log on in CN
[9:14] Rose Springvale: oh, well, hopefully others will be able to resolve too
[9:14] Rose Springvale: I’d like to propose one change to the agenda
[9:15] Rose Springvale: and that is to move VIII Expansion Discussion to the first item, as we’ve got invited guests here today and i’d like to make sure they have time
[9:15] Rose Springvale: anyone opposed to that?
[9:16] Keila Forager: Nope
[9:16] Moon Adamant: ah thanks – i do have to leave by 11 or a bit before
[9:16] Pip Torok: no
[9:16] muhammedyussif Wikinger: no
[9:16] Arria Perreault: no
[9:16] Rose Springvale: good, then we’ll move those, and take the other items in order after that.
[9:16] Lilith Ivory: nope
[9:16] Rose Springvale: the 7 day vote entered from last week was also in favor of the citizenship act as passed, so nothing to repor there
[9:17] Rose Springvale: So we’ll go right to the Expansion discussion. I’ve asked both Moon and Sudane to join us as they are the “money” expert and the “land” expert we have always relied on in CDS
[9:17] Rose Springvale: thank you both for coming
[9:17] Sudane Erato: yw
[9:17] Moon Adamant: you’re very welcome, as always
[9:18] Rose Springvale: CDS has been talking about a new sim for a long time now. During the oktoberfest, we held an official brainstorming session, where many of the RA participated
[9:18] Rose Springvale: There were basically 4 ideas presented there, and i’ll review those quickly, and then open the floor for discussion of those or anything else you want to dream up
[9:19] Rose Springvale: the 4 were 1) NFS east and a new schloss, 2. NFS west, possibly encompassing a sandbox, 3) Atlantis, on lower levels, and 4, Water/mountain sims, possibly homesteads.
[9:19] Rose Springvale: Is that the way you all remember them?
[9:20] Rose Springvale: So, feel free to elaborate on your favorites, or throw out other ideas
[9:20] Lilith Ivory: looks ok for me
[9:20] Arria Perreault: it’s correct, as I can remember
[9:21] Keila Forager: Looks good
[9:21] Arria Perreault raises hand
[9:21] Pip Torok: does upgrading Scloss etc proposals properly come under this heading?
[9:21] Rose Springvale: i thought we’d talk generaly about feasibility from both a construction and monetary standpoint of each of those and any others you all throw out. Yes Arria first, then Pip
[9:22] Moon Adamant: i woudl like to speak when possible, too
[9:22] Arria Perreault: I would like to hear Moon about the consequences of these different projects and the GMP
[9:22] Pip Torok: (sorry, madame lra, I see that it does …)
[9:22] Arria Perreault: which projects are the easiest to do now
[9:22] Rose Springvale: yes, so would we all
[9:23] Moon Adamant: oh, i’ll be gla dto comment when i have the floor
[9:23] Rose Springvale: okay, Moon, did you have a chance to read those transcripts? And easy isn’t always ‘best”
[9:23] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:23] Moon Adamant: hmmm, no, but i guess from your description what they are
[9:23] Rose Springvale: okay. then why dont’ you go ahead if you’d like… i was concerned that we were too cryptic
[9:23] Moon Adamant: these possibilities have been laid out before… maybe except for Atlantis
[9:24] Moon Adamant: which i suppose is underwater?
[9:24] Keila Forager: correct moon
[9:24] Rose Springvale: that’s right
[9:24] Moon Adamant: thanks Keila
[9:24] Moon Adamant: ok
[9:24] Moon Adamant: i agree that ‘easy’ and best’ aren’t teh same
[9:24] Moon Adamant: ‘easy’ now is to expand to where the terrain is flattish
[9:25] Moon Adamant: so atlantis and water/archipelago sims would be easier
[9:25] Moon Adamant: almost immediate
[9:25] Moon Adamant: as they woudl only require the planning of the urban layout
[9:26] Moon Adamant: and not a planning for teh modelling of terrain
[9:26] Moon Adamant: which is what is taking ages – my fault there
[9:26] Moon Adamant: in fact, planning for flattish terrains
[9:26] Moon Adamant: atm
[9:26] Moon Adamant: allows a wider participation of citizens in the planning process
[9:27] Moon Adamant: similar to what happened in LA
[9:27] Moon Adamant: while planning for mountain and sims bordering the very compliex NFS terrain
[9:28] Moon Adamant: is … well, tough
[9:28] Moon Adamant: that’s the matter of it
[9:28] Rose Springvale: any thoughts on how long we could expect on each of those?
[9:28] Rose Springvale: not to put you on the spot
[9:28] Moon Adamant: eheheh
[9:28] Moon Adamant: well, for teh flattish terrains, expect a process taking the same time as LA took
[9:29] Rose Springvale: so 4-6 weeks?
[9:29] Moon Adamant: can’t remind atm how long it took, but it can be tracked from the forums
[9:29] Moon Adamant: 1 to 2 months, yes
[9:29] Rose Springvale: seems like it was pretty fast.
[9:29] Moon Adamant: it was
[9:29] Rose Springvale: and mountains, more like AM?
[9:29] Moon Adamant: for the mountain terrains…
[9:29] Moon Adamant: yes
[9:29] Rose Springvale: so 4-6 months
[9:30] Moon Adamant: maybe a tad more
[9:30] Moon Adamant: yes, the longer bit of that
[9:30] Keila Forager: Can I ask why it takes so long?
[9:30] Rose Springvale: (am came online us thankgiving weekend, and was approved the end of may)
[9:30] Moon Adamant: well, because we need to plan the slope down from NFS to teh water level
[9:31] Moon Adamant: that’s a few sims’ lenght
[9:31] Moon Adamant: for example, if the alpine range that has been considered is built, we have to hmmm
[9:31] Arria Perreault: (for the record: Monastery project: 1 and half year, political discussions, but also a lot of discussions about the relief)
[9:31] Moon Adamant: calculate the heights of the corners and median points of 20+ sims
[9:32] Moon Adamant: and this is complex
[9:32] Arria Perreault: I can testify
[9:32] Lilith Ivory: do we have to go down to water level within 1 Sim or couldn´t we add another one later?
[9:32] Rose Springvale: thanks Moon
[9:32] Moon Adamant: oh Lil
[9:32] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:32] Moon Adamant: we need several, depending on teh direction
[9:32] Rose Springvale: sorry , go on!
[9:32] Moon Adamant: you must have a maximal slope angle you see
[9:33] Lilith Ivory: seems hard to go down this much in 1 sim
[9:33] Lilith Ivory: I see
[9:33] Rose Springvale: i don’t think she meant that Lil, but rather the slope to connect to the adjoining sims, yes?
[9:33] Moon Adamant: so that you can build roads, etc, with some ease…. also so you can provide future tenants with plots which aren’t fiendishly dififcult to build on
[9:33] Lilith Ivory: right
[9:34] Rose Springvale: One of the suggestions was to make the sim not a residential sim, but more ski slope plus sandbox…. would that take less time?
[9:34] Moon Adamant: and you must leave some leeway too
[9:34] Moon Adamant: so not to constrain future planners
[9:34] Lilith Ivory nods
[9:35] Moon Adamant: hmmm, it would depend still from the overall GMP relief planning
[9:35] Pip Torok: won’t that overload the function of just one sim?
[9:35] Moon Adamant: but you would surely save the time of building infrastructure
[9:35] Rose Springvale: and lose the concern about parcelling
[9:35] Moon Adamant: mind that
[9:36] Moon Adamant: owners can place settings on their parcels which make it difficult to ski below
[9:36] Moon Adamant: for example, Run No Scripts
[9:36] Rose Springvale: true, but could be dealt with in covenants, no?
[9:37] Moon Adamant: i think so
[9:37] Moon Adamant: but it could mean a constant maintenance in that sense
[9:37] Rose Springvale: thanks. Other questiosn for moon?
[9:38] Arria Perreault: yes
[9:38] Moon Adamant listens
[9:38] Arria Perreault: in the GMP, do we still have higher mountains (higher than NFS) or not?
[9:39] Moon Adamant: in teh current version, yes
[9:39] Moon Adamant: there was a decision, a couple of years ago, to have the alpine range west of NFS
[9:39] Moon Adamant: several sims
[9:39] Moon Adamant: that’s actually what makes the GMP be 20+ sims
[9:40] Moon Adamant: if i go higher, then i need more sims to reach down to teh water level
[9:40] Rose Springvale: smiles. more sims!
[9:41] Moon Adamant: yes
[9:41] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks moon, if you’d hang with us a few more minutes… maybe we can hear from sudane on finacial feasiblity
[9:41] Moon Adamant: sure
[9:41] Moon Adamant: i am interested in taht as well
[9:42] Rose Springvale: Sudane, can you talk about three things… particulary, and anything else of course
[9:42] Sudane Erato: 3 things?
[9:42] Rose Springvale: 1) how well mountain sims “sell” as opposed to lower ones, 2, the idea of owning sims with no residents
[9:43] Rose Springvale: and 3 homesteads/ full sims
[9:43] Sudane Erato: ok… sure
[9:43] Sudane Erato: on #1 i’m really not qualified to say…
[9:43] Keila Forager: Hi tor
[9:43] Keila Forager: HUGS
[9:43] Lilith Ivory: hi Tor
[9:43] Pip Torok: hi Tor
[9:43] Kaseido Quandry: hi Tor!
[9:43] Arria Perreault: Hi Tor
[9:43] Tor Karlsvalt: Hi all, sort of have a lull in the day.
[9:43] Ulysse Alexandre: Hello Tor
[9:43] Rose Springvale: smiles at tor. thanks for coming. I told him he can just listen folks
[9:43] Moon Adamant: hi Tor
[9:44] Rose Springvale: we were just going to hear from Sudane re new sims financial effect tor… will copy you the notes up to now while she types
[9:44] Sudane Erato: yes…
[9:44] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[9:44] Sudane Erato: so i’m not really qualified to say how well one style sells compared to another
[9:45] Sudane Erato: and its hard to tell from out own experience
[9:45] Sudane Erato: NFS and AM are almost always full… but i don’t think thats owing the “mountin vs flat”
[9:45] Tor Karlsvalt accepted your inventory offer.
[9:45] Sudane Erato: ok
[9:46] Rose Springvale: theme then?
[9:46] Sudane Erato: the big issue to discuss, I think, is the issue of sims for residents
[9:46] Sudane Erato: and sims for “general purpose”
[9:46] Arria Perreault raises hand
[9:46] Sudane Erato: of which we have none now
[9:46] Rose Springvale: lets let her finish
[9:46] Arria Perreault: ok
[9:47] Sudane Erato: the issue breaks down to purchase and tier
[9:47] Sudane Erato: up until now, we have re-couped the purchase price of a sim by selling parcels on it to residents
[9:47] Sudane Erato: this means no net money loss to CDS
[9:48] Sudane Erato: but… today, even if we intend this purpose for a new sim
[9:48] Sudane Erato: this will be very difficult
[9:48] Sudane Erato: since the price of land is so low
[9:48] Sudane Erato: if
[9:48] muhammedyussif Wikinger: h
[9:48] Sudane Erato: we have no intention of selling the land
[9:48] Sudane Erato: then the entire purchase cost.
[9:49] Sudane Erato: is a net loss to the treasury
[9:49] Sudane Erato: that could be ok…
[9:49] Sudane Erato: but what is more devastating, i think
[9:49] Sudane Erato: is not planning to collect any tier on the land
[9:49] Sudane Erato: any new full sim
[9:50] Sudane Erato: will cost us $US300/month
[9:50] Sudane Erato: L$100,000
[9:50] Sudane Erato: approx
[9:50] Sudane Erato: thats a LOT of money… month in and month out
[9:50] Rose Springvale: okay, i know we all have more questiosn, but we are at time alloted… do i have a motion to extend?
[9:50] Keila Forager: I move to extend time for discussion on this topic
[9:50] Sudane Erato: a homestead will cost about half that
[9:50] Pip Torok: second
[9:50] Rose Springvale: how long?
[9:51] Arria Perreault: 20 min
[9:51] Keila Forager: second
[9:51] Rose Springvale: we have a motion to extend time 20 minutes. all in favor?
[9:51] muhammedyussif Wikinger: oh dear
[9:51] Arria Perreault: aye
[9:51] Keila Forager: aye
[9:51] Lilith Ivory: aye
[9:51] muhammedyussif Wikinger: nay
[9:51] Pip Torok: aye
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: eye
[9:51] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[9:51] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[9:51] Rose Springvale: okay, i vote aye, motion carries
[9:52] Rose Springvale: muhammed, we will try to stay within the 2 hours. just move something to next week
[9:52] Rose Springvale: please go on Sudane
[9:52] Sudane Erato: kk
[9:52] muhammedyussif Wikinger: good
[9:52] Sudane Erato: so… you see that setting up a non revenue generating sim has very serious implications
[9:53] Sudane Erato: there have been lots of comments in past months about how much money we have
[9:53] Sudane Erato: but i think that that money will not last too long with these kind of sims
[9:53] Sudane Erato: and… the other concern
[9:53] Sudane Erato: is that even if we do buy sims intended for residences
[9:54] Sudane Erato: that it will be almost impossible to recoup the purchase cost
[9:54] Sudane Erato: so that too will be a loss to our treasury, although thankfully a “one time” loss
[9:54] Sudane Erato: i think that at least covers the concerns… obviously much discussion could be had
[9:55] Rose Springvale: yes
[9:55] Rose Springvale: so lets take questions for a bit?
[9:55] Rose Springvale: arria?
[9:55] Rose Springvale: maybe afk… others?
[9:55] Rose Springvale: no, typing, sorry
[9:55] Arria Perreault: we still have to take in account the consequences of the new citizen law
[9:56] Arria Perreault: the re is no more pressure to open sims to get new citizen
[9:57] Sudane Erato: yes, sadly… the land sale market in SSL is not very good
[9:57] Arria Perreault: maybe we should renew our vision. why do we need new sims? I would suggest that new sims should be connected with a project and maybe with a group of people
[9:57] Arria Perreault: we talked in the past about sims for NGO
[9:57] Keila Forager: And what if that group of people decided to leave??
[9:57] Arria Perreault: we need to think to this too
[9:57] Rose Springvale: thank you Arria, Keila, did you want to ask a question?
[9:58] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[9:58] Arria Perreault: I had this remark, not a question
[9:58] Rose Springvale: k thank you.
[9:58] Rose Springvale: Moon?
[9:58] Moon Adamant: oh, jsyt a comment on what Arria siad
[9:58] Moon Adamant: said* – sorry for teh typos
[9:59] Moon Adamant: on communitie sand projects connected to land
[9:59] Moon Adamant: and Cedar island comes to mind as an excellent example
[9:59] Moon Adamant: it’s a very vigorous community
[9:59] Moon Adamant: done
[9:59] Rose Springvale: thank you. I have a couple of questions too, but will wait for others?
[10:00] Rose Springvale: or just go ahead
[10:01] Rose Springvale: First, with a treasury in excess of 10000 USD, i’m having trouble being concerned about not recovering the initial outlay.. not sure what other purpose all that money is for. I’d like to look, over time
[10:01] Rose Springvale: at how much excess tier we generate per month, which adds to the surplus, to see if we can absorb the cost of tier for a non paying sim that provides added value
[10:01] Rose Springvale: for the land we already have
[10:01] Rose Springvale: and in that regard
[10:02] Rose Springvale: looking at the map that tor did last weeek, and the full map showing our available land in other sims
[10:02] Rose Springvale: if we increased the value of what we already have, don’t change our tier rates, Could we in fact have our cake and eat it too?
[10:02] Rose Springvale: particularly where a sandbox sim is concerned.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: done
[10:02] Arria Perreault: /raises hand
[10:02] Rose Springvale: Arria
[10:03] Sudane Erato: obnviously, a non-revenue generating sim expense would need to get added into the operating budget… and sufficient surplus be maintained every month to pay for it
[10:04] Sudane Erato: we don’t always generate 100,000 extra each month now
[10:04] Rose Springvale: but that’s a choice, correct?
[10:04] Sudane Erato: and other solution degrades the reserves indefinitely
[10:04] Arria Perreault: I agree that we can lose the initial investisment. I think also that we have to think with the idea of programs. Let’s take the sandbox. We can decide to invest the tier of a sim or half a sim for one or two years and then decide again if we reconduct the experience. we have to be flexible and find new models
[10:04] Sudane Erato: whuich means, eventually they go to zero
[10:05] Rose Springvale: yes arria i agree. Sudane Wouldn’t arrias idea be a responsible way to deal with that concern?
[10:05] Sudane Erato: i.e…. change the status after awhile and start collecting tier?
[10:05] Kaseido Quandry: I agree with Arria- that’s a very reasonable approach
[10:05] Sudane Erato: sure
[10:06] Sudane Erato: but this community has often been very resistent to changing existing patterns
[10:06] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:06] Rose Springvale: given full information, i’m not concerned
[10:06] Keila Forager: that’s an understatement Sudane
[10:06] Rose Springvale: okay, we are nearly at time
[10:06] Moon Adamant raises hand
[10:07] Rose Springvale: yes moon
[10:07] Moon Adamant: just one question… not very informed there
[10:07] Moon Adamant: but i heard that the overall SL land market is rather slow atm
[10:07] Rose Springvale: for most places yes
[10:07] Moon Adamant: shouldn’t taht be taken into account as well in this discussion?
[10:07] Keila Forager: Not everywhere
[10:08] Rose Springvale: indeed. we need to find ways for our sims to be in the “not everywhere” category
[10:08] Moon Adamant: yes, exactly
[10:08] Sudane Erato: actually, i think the CDS is one of the most successful land-selling communities
[10:08] Moon Adamant: that’s it
[10:08] Rose Springvale: Thanks Moon, and thanks Sudane.
[10:08] Sudane Erato: yw
[10:09] Sudane Erato: and anyone please feel to contact me to discuss any of this more
[10:09] Rose Springvale: RA, we are at time on this discussion. What i would like to see is for us to take the conversation to the forum
[10:09] Rose Springvale: If anyone would like to make a motion, lets post it and consider at our next meeting?
[10:09] Arria Perreault: I second this proposition
[10:09] Pip Torok agrees with Rose on this
[10:09] Rose Springvale: then i’ll put it on the agenda for next meeting.
[10:09] Arria Perreault: Motion to continue this discussion on the forums
[10:10] Rose Springvale: thank you Arria, second?
[10:10] Keila Forager: second
[10:10] Rose Springvale: all in favor of moving the expansion discussion to the forums and bringing back motions next meeting say aye please?
[10:10] Keila Forager: aye
[10:10] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:10] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:10] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:10] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:10] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:10] Pip Torok: aye
[10:11] Rose Springvale: thank you. And thanks again Moon and Sudane for your invaluable help
[10:11] Sudane Erato: yw
[10:11] Moon Adamant: you’re very welcome, again
[10:11] Object owned by Rose Springvale gave you ‘Act to Create Commerce Coordinator’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Colonia%20Nova/13/166/41 ).
[10:11] Sudane Erato: sorry… i must run
[10:11] Moon Adamant: i wish you all a pleasant meeting, and a nice saturday
[10:11] Moon Adamant waves
[10:11] Tor Karlsvalt: thanks Sudand and Moon.
[10:11] Keila Forager: Thanks sudane and moon
[10:11] Pip Torok: tks Moon!
[10:12] Ulysse Alexandre: bye bye Moon and Sudane
[10:12] Lilith Ivory: yes thank you both
[10:12] Rose Springvale: okay, back to the agenda, we are at commission reports
[10:12] Pip Torok: cheers to bot! …
[10:12] Pip Torok: both
[10:12] Rose Springvale: Lilith has word from the Commerce commission
[10:12] Rose Springvale: go ahead please Lil
[10:12] Lilith Ivory: ty Rose
[10:12] Lilith Ivory: First of all, as the direct TP in NFS seems to work fine, The Commerce Commission moves to make the TP act in Neufreistadt final.
[10:12] Keila Forager: YAY
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: 2. The Commerce Commision moves to create a Merchants page on the CDS portal and a thread in the CDS forums.
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: The commission had a lot more ideas. For example Combined Classifieds listings for each Sim, merchant Teleport signs in each Sim, at least one special, merchant specific event per month, like treasure hunts, street fairs or shop crawls etc.
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: We are aware that this means a lot of work.
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: For that reason the Commerce Commission moves that a new civil service position be created. This position would be named the Commerce Coordinator.
[10:13] Kaseido Quandry: great stuff!
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: The Commerce Coordinator would be a civil servant and and thus paid – with the ability to request funds for advertising and events.
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: The responsibilities of the position would be:
[10:13] Lilith Ivory: 1. Create directory listings for CDS sims, specifically commercial areas
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: 2. Create and maintain a merchant directory and supply to the PIO for distribution.
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: 3. Coordinate regular events intended to increase commerce in cds, such as hunts, flea markets, fairs, etc.
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: 4. Assist with bringing new merchants to fill commercial spaces in CDS.
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: 5. Update and maintain a Merchants page on the CDS portal, and a thread on the CDS forums
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: The Commerce Coordinator will report to the CDS Executive and be allocated funds from the budget each term with which to fullfill duties.
[10:14] Lilith Ivory smiles
[10:14] Lilith Ivory: done so far
[10:15] Rose Springvale: thanks.
[10:15] Rose Springvale: discussion?
[10:15] Keila Forager: Great idea:)
[10:15] Lilith Ivory:
[10:15] Rose Springvale: no discussion? so perfect all we need to do is vote?
[10:15] Lilith Ivory: hehe
[10:16] Rose Springvale: well then, lets do them one at a time
[10:16] Lilith Ivory: ok :
[10:16] Lilith Ivory: starting with 1.
[10:16] Lilith Ivory: TP in NFS seems to work fine, The Commerce Commission moves to make the TP act in Neufreistadt final.
[10:16] Rose Springvale: do we have a second?
[10:16] Kaseido Quandry: second
[10:16] Pip Torok: second
[10:17] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:17] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:17] Pip Torok: aye
[10:17] Keila Forager: aye
[10:17] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:17] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:17] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:17] Alexia Carnell: )
[10:17] Rose Springvale: chair also votes aye, motion carries. thanks!
[10:17] Rose Springvale: okay
[10:17] Rose Springvale: 2?
[10:17] Pip Torok: (makes Alexia’s day!
[10:17] Lilith Ivory: 2. The Commerce Commision moves to create a Merchants page on the CDS portal and a thread in the CDS forums.
[10:17] Rose Springvale: second?
[10:18] Keila Forager: second
[10:18] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:18] Keila Forager: aye
[10:18] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:18] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:18] Pip Torok: aye
[10:18] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:18] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:18] Rose Springvale: thinks kassi is multitasking, votes aye
[10:18] Rose Springvale: motion carries.
[10:18] Rose Springvale: 3?
[10:19] Lilith Ivory: 3. The Commerce Commission moves that a new civil service position be created. This position would be named the Commerce Coordinator.
The Commerce Coordinator would be a civil servant and and thus paid – with the ability to request funds for advertising and events.
The responsibilities of the position would be:
1. Create directory listings for CDS sims, specifically commercial areas
2. Create and maintain a merchant directory and supply to the PIO for distribution.
3. Coordinate regular events intended to increase commerce in cds, such as hunts, flea markets, fairs, etc.
4. Assist with bringing new merchants to fill commercial spaces in CDS.
5. Update and maintain a Merchants page on the CDS portal, and a thread on the CDS forums
The Commerce Coordinator will report to the CDS Executive and be allocated funds from the budget each term with which to fullfill duties.
[10:19] Rose Springvale: Second?
[10:19] Pip Torok: second
[10:19] Rose Springvale: discussion?
[10:19] Arria Perreault: I have just a remark
[10:19] Rose Springvale: i have one question… as a civil service… go on Arria’
[10:20] Pip Torok: yes … we shd make sure that the influx of new business justifies the salary of the exec
[10:20] Arria Perreault: we have tried for years to solve this question with an NGO solution, like a commerce chamber. It never worked very well. The solution of a civil servant is not bad in my point of view.
[10:20] Pip Torok: (sorry, out of turn)
[10:21] Rose Springvale: thanks. go on Pip
[10:21] Lilith Ivory: right Arria
[10:21] Rose Springvale: i think our comments are related
[10:21] Pip Torok: yes … we shd make sure that the influx of new business justifies the salary of the exec
[10:21] Rose Springvale: how do we determine that Pip?
[10:21] Keila Forager: raises hand
[10:21] Lilith Ivory: our Sims would be more attractive if we have working shops
[10:22] Pip Torok: simply a watching brief if that is practical
[10:22] Rose Springvale: okay, though probably as hard as telling if events sell land, but certainly. Keila?
[10:22] Keila Forager: I don’t like it should be to justify a salary, if the person is doing the work regardless of new business, they should get paid..
[10:23] Keila Forager: It should be to justify the position..
[10:23] Keila Forager: and very true lilith
[10:23] Pip Torok concedes the point
[10:23] Rose Springvale: okay, my question… as a civil service position, this would be a Chancellor appointment, correct? so the Chancellor could determing if it “works”
[10:23] Rose Springvale: determine*
[10:24] Lilith Ivory: I think so
[10:24] Pip Torok: so do I
[10:24] Rose Springvale: okay. anyone else?
[10:25] Rose Springvale: if not, all in favor of the motion as presented?
[10:25] Keila Forager: aye
[10:25] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:25] Pip Torok: aye
[10:25] Tor Karlsvalt: aye’
[10:25] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:25] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:25] Rose Springvale: smiles and pokes kas… and votes aye
[10:26] Kaseido Quandry: aye!
[10:26] Rose Springvale: motion carries, Well done Lilith! thank you for your work and for coming up with great ideas to solf a long term problem
[10:26] Lilith Ivory: aaaw
[10:26] Arria Perreault: yes, congratulations Lilith
[10:26] Lilith Ivory: was not me alone thanks to everybody who worked with me :9
[10:27] Rose Springvale: with the discretion of the RA, i’d like to fiddle with the agenda again
[10:27] Rose Springvale: We really need to make sure we have our election dates certified, and the other items on the agenda are not time sensitive
[10:28] Rose Springvale: so i’m going to move item VII to the top next, unless there are objections
[10:28] Arria Perreault: no objection
[10:28] Rose Springvale listens
[10:28] Pip Torok: none from me
[10:28] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok for me
[10:28] Keila Forager: no objection
[10:28] Rose Springvale: Delia, maybe i can impose on you… is the citizens list in order so that we know how many membesr of the RA we’ll elect?
[10:29] Rose Springvale: maybe she is multi taskign too
[10:29] Delia Lake: sorry
[10:30] Rose Springvale: smiles and realizes how riveting the RA meetings are!
[10:30] Pip Torok: < chortles >
[10:30] Delia Lake: back to me in a sec pls. have something in rl. very sorry
[10:30] Lilith Ivory smiles and nods
[10:30] Delia Lake: tree work in the backyard
[10:31] Rose Springvale: ok
[10:31] Rose Springvale: here are the dates i figured for the election
[10:31]Rose Springvale[/b]: CDS 14th Representative Assembly Term begins December 1, 2010.
Election: Noon on November 11 to noon on November 18.
Candidate Declarations: October 27, 2010 (both Chancellor AND RA elections)
Citizenship Status Determination date: October 14, 2010 I am sure we will be getting the certified numbers of citizens as soon as the SC has reviewed the list.
[10:31] [color=Black]Rose Springvale: did anyone check the math?
[10:31] Pip Torok: < touch not a single bough! >
[10:31] Rose Springvale: shall we approve the dates then?
[10:32] muhammedyussif Wikinger: yes
[10:32] Rose Springvale: candidate deadline is this week!
[10:32] Rose Springvale: is that long enough?
[10:32] Rose Springvale: 4 days from now
[10:32] Keila Forager: I wouldn’t think so
[10:32] Kaseido Quandry: I agree- that’s probably not enough notice
[10:32] Pip Torok: agrees that it is long enough
[10:32] Arria Perreault: it was in the forums since several days
[10:32] Arria Perreault: but it’s short, for sure
[10:32] Rose Springvale: i didn’t find anything that required that it be 15 days before the vote, but tha’ts what it has been traditionally
[10:32] Keila Forager: Not a lot of people read the forums..
[10:33] Rose Springvale: in past terms, the SC extended, but i think we can do that now
[10:33] Rose Springvale: shall we add a week?
[10:33] Kaseido Quandry: yes, let’s, that should be fine
[10:33] Keila Forager: I think it would be a good idea
[10:33] Lilith Ivory: right
[10:33] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:33] Pip Torok concedes
[10:33] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[10:33] Rose Springvale: so… deadline for declaring would be November 3? that doesn’t give a lot of time to set up vote machines
[10:34] Rose Springvale: wait
[10:34] Rose Springvale: i need to look at the dates
[10:34] Rose Springvale: when does campaigning begin??
[10:34] Arria Perreault: The election can be later, just before the beginning of the term
[10:34] Arria Perreault: no?
[10:35] Rose Springvale: if we extend the deadline, we limit the number of days to campaign. I hesitate to make it a week later, because that runs into US thanksgiving
[10:35] Rose Springvale: maybe we split the difference, and make the declaration deadline ten days from today
[10:35] Rose Springvale: or is that the same lol
[10:35] Rose Springvale: i’m so bad with numbers
[10:35] Rose Springvale: 7 days?
[10:36] Kaseido Quandry is trying to puzzle this out on a calendar’
[10:36] Keila Forager: make it hallowwen
[10:36] Arria Perreault: 3 November?
[10:36] Rose Springvale: so people declare by next saturday, campaign one week, and we have one week for voting
[10:36] You decline Thistle Hill Market, Caledon Oxbridge Village (187, 80, 25) from A group member named Autopilotpatty Poppy.
[10:36] Arria Perreault: 30 Oktober?
[10:36] Rose Springvale: yes
[10:36] Keila Forager: sure
[10:36] Rose Springvale: 30 october deadline
[10:36] Kaseido Quandry: sounds good
[10:36] Rose Springvale: then keep the election dates
[10:36] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[10:36] Rose Springvale: and we’ll get the word out as many ways as possible
[10:37] Arria Perreault: declaration is to the Dean of the SC?
[10:37] Lilith Ivory: ok
[10:37] Rose Springvale: yes
[10:37] Rose Springvale: yes to arria
[10:37] Rose Springvale: or on the forums i beleive
[10:37] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:37] Rose Springvale: so adjusted dates:
[10:38] Rose Springvale: CDS 14th Representative Assembly Term begins December 1, 2010.
Election: Noon on November 11 to noon on November 18.[/i] Candidate Declarations: October 30, 2010 (both Chancellor AND RA elections)
Citizenship Status Determination date: October 14, 2010 I am sure we will be getting the certified numbers of citizens as soon as the SC has reviewed the list.[/color] [10:38] Delia Lake: very very sorry. tree pruners were about to cut off a good and live branch instead of the large dead one next to it!!
[10:38] Rose Springvale: oh no!
[10:39] Rose Springvale: no problem delia
[10:39] Rose Springvale: we are about to vote on adjusted dates
[10:39] Rose Springvale: if i get a motion
[10:39] Pip Torok: (so I WAS right about the bough .. after all!
[10:39] Rose Springvale: (life imitates art, pip!)
[10:39] Linna Voix gave you Pixart Designs-tatoo-sandals-flip-flops-bikinis-low price..
[10:39] Tor Karlsvalt: 11/11 Armistice Day
[10:40] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:40] Rose Springvale: we have a whole week, so that shouldn’t be a problem
[10:40] Keila Forager: I move to adjust candidate declanation to OCt 30
[10:40] Pip Torok: second
[10:40] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:41] Rose Springvale: all in favor of that adjustment?
[10:41] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:41] Keila Forager: aye
[10:41] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:41] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:41] Pip Torok: aye
[10:41] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:41] You decline Belly Dancing Sultan’s Tent, Caledon Tamrannoch (211, 207, 501) from A group member named Autopilotpatty Poppy.
[10:41] Rose Springvale: Aye as well.
[10:41] Rose Springvale: okay, what about the election dates?
[10:42] Arria Perreault: I have a question. Who is in charge to communicate these dates as wide as possible?
[10:42] Rose Springvale: delia, do you think a week is enough time for the mecanisme?
[10:42] Rose Springvale: pip
[10:42] Rose Springvale: pio sorry
[10:42] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:42] Rose Springvale: but i think anyone who has access should go ahead
[10:42] Rose Springvale: in this case, i dont think there can be too much information
[10:42] Arria Perreault: ok
[10:43] Delia Lake: for the voting itself?
[10:43] Rose Springvale: no
[10:43] Rose Springvale: to get the machines set up
[10:43] Rose Springvale: only one week between declaration and opening polls
[10:43] Delia Lake: i would think so, yes. I haven’t heard back from Jon yet though
[10:43] Rose Springvale: which gives only a week for debates, meet the candidate parties, etc
[10:44] Rose Springvale: i think we put the first meeting of the new reps on the sunday after the election, and a ball the following week
[10:45] Rose Springvale: which gets squirrelly with Thanksgiving holidays
[10:45] Pip Torok: which dates will those be, please?
[10:45] Rose Springvale: which?
[10:45] Rose Springvale: thanksgiving in the us is november 25 i think
[10:45] Kaseido Quandry: yes
[10:45] Keila Forager: that is correct
[10:45] Rose Springvale: sees arria typing
[10:46] Arria Perreault: no
[10:46] Rose Springvale: ok
[10:46] Pip Torok: date of 1st meeting and daTE OF THE BALL
[10:46] Rose Springvale: need to check that one
[10:47] Rose Springvale: but i think the first meeting of the RA was set to follow the election .. or happen within the week
[10:47] Rose Springvale: and the ball was set to the following saturday or sunday
[10:47] Rose Springvale: or maybe that’s just what they talked about (had to do with LRA election)
[10:47] Tor Karlsvalt: have a thanksgiving ball
[10:48] Keila Forager: Good idea Tor
[10:48] Rose Springvale: okay, so leave the election dates as they are?
[10:48] Keila Forager: Yes
[10:48] Rose Springvale: motion?
[10:49] Kaseido Quandry reads back to try to find all the pieces for a motin
[10:49] Rose Springvale: smiels
[10:49] Keila Forager: I move to leave election dates Election: Noon on November 11 to noon on November 18.
[10:49] Rose Springvale: Thank you
[10:49] Rose Springvale: second?
[10:50] Kaseido Quandry: second
[10:50] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:50] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:50] Keila Forager: aye
[10:50] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:50] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:50] Pip Torok: aye
[10:50] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:50] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:50] Rose Springvale: thank you, motion carries
[10:50] Rose Springvale: delia, do we have a citizens list so we know how many we are electing?
[10:51] Delia Lake: there are some who are currently provisional but regardless the lowest odd number should be 7 RA
[10:51] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks!
[10:51] Delia Lake: they can reclaim their status until the polls open
[10:51] Rose Springvale: not likely we’d get to 9 is there?
[10:52] Keila Forager: More chance of having a quorum
[10:52] Delia Lake: no. in order to get to 9 RA we would have to have more than 90 citizens which we do not have
[10:52] Rose Springvale: we’ve only not had a quorum one time this term Keila, i think bigger is better!
[10:52] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks
[10:52] Rose Springvale: so 7 RA positions, one chancellor
[10:52] Rose Springvale: get your declarations to Delia
[10:52] Rose Springvale: or post them
[10:53] Rose Springvale: and term limist start next term so all here are elibible
[10:53] Rose Springvale: eligible*
[10:53] Keila Forager: That’s what I mean, 7 RA more chance of no quorem
[10:53] Rose Springvale: ah, okay
[10:53] Rose Springvale: The only other open issue re elections is the voters guide
[10:53] Delia Lake: tradition has that people most often give a notecard declaration to the SC Dean + posting in the Forum, that way no declaration gets accidentally missed
[10:54] Rose Springvale: Does anyone want to go through that with the modifications and make sure its okay?
[10:54] Rose Springvale: okay, thanks Delia
[10:54] Rose Springvale: if no one else volunteers, i’ll look through it
[10:54] Delia Lake: and re voter’s guide, Claude had written one last time that needs to be updated with current law
[10:54] Rose Springvale: okay, i’ll get with claude and make sure we have something then
[10:54] Rose Springvale: any other items concerning elections?
[10:55] Delia Lake: he did go through it last week looking for update points
[10:55] Rose Springvale: oh good
[10:55] Rose Springvale: let’s finish commission reports, then go to concerns, and table the other agenda items to Thursday?
[10:55] Keila Forager: agreed
[10:55] Pip Torok: sounds ok to me …
[10:55] muhammedyussif Wikinger: hurray
[10:55] Rose Springvale: dont’ think there is anything else from commissions is there?
[10:56] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:56] Arria Perreault: not from me
[10:56] Rose Springvale: Tor, kas?
[10:56] Kaseido Quandry: nope\
[10:56] Tor Karlsvalt: no, not from me.
[10:56] Rose Springvale: great.
[10:56] Rose Springvale: for the record, could we have a motion to table items IV, V, and VI?
[10:57] Kaseido Quandry: move to table items IV, V and VI
[10:57] Pip Torok: so move
[10:57] Rose Springvale: thanks
[10:57] Keila Forager: second
[10:57] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I move to that
[10:57] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[10:57] Pip Torok: second
[10:57] Arria Perreault: aye
[10:57] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[10:57] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[10:57] Keila Forager: aye
[10:57] Lilith Ivory: aye
[10:57] Pip Torok: aye
[10:57] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[10:57] Rose Springvale: thank you
[10:57] Rose Springvale: RA concerns?
[10:57] Rose Springvale: smiles
[10:57] Rose Springvale: announcements?
[10:57] Tor Karlsvalt: I have one.
[10:57] Rose Springvale: oh, go on Tor
[10:57] Tor Karlsvalt: concern
[10:58] Rose Springvale: sorry
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: Jsut a heads up
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: we will have look at modifying the border of CN with Garnata.
[10:58] Rose Springvale: and almunecar, true. That’s under the chancellors venue i think
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: pl
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: ol
[10:58] Tor Karlsvalt: ok
[10:59] Rose Springvale:
[10:59] Rose Springvale: other concerns?
[10:59] Rose Springvale: citizens feel free to speak up too now
[10:59] Rose Springvale: announcements?
[11:00] Rose Springvale: i note the calendar showed an alpine sims cultual commission meeting… anyone know anything about that?
[11:01] Keila Forager: No
[11:01] Lilith Ivory: I have no idea about that
[11:01] Rose Springvale: kk
[11:01] Delia Lake: haven’t heard anything about it, no
[11:01] Lilith Ivory: whenis/was it?
[11:01] Rose Springvale: now
[11:01] Keila Forager: LOL
[11:01] Rose Springvale: 11-12:30 is what is on the calendar
[11:01] Lilith Ivory: wow
[11:01] Arria Perreault: I saw this too
[11:01] Delia Lake: no announcements or notes came to me
[11:01] Lilith Ivory: none to me either
[11:01] Rose Springvale: smiles
[11:02] Arria Perreault: maybe a date put there since a long time, like the anniversary of LA
[11:02] Rose Springvale: who is chair of that one?
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: maybe a recurring event
[11:02] muhammedyussif Wikinger: motion to ajourn the meeting
[11:02] Arria Perreault: Sonja and Lilith
[11:02] Rose Springvale: thanks muhammed
[11:02] Rose Springvale: second?
[11:02] Kaseido Quandry: second
[11:02] Pip Torok: second
[11:02] Keila Forager: second
[11:02] Rose Springvale: all in favor?
[11:02] Arria Perreault: aye
[11:02] Keila Forager: aye
[11:02] muhammedyussif Wikinger: aye
[11:02] Pip Torok: aye
[11:02] Kaseido Quandry: aye
[11:02] Tor Karlsvalt: aye
[11:02] Lilith Ivory: aye
[11:02] Rose Springvale: thank you all! we are adjourned

Permalink.

RA Meeting 20 November 2010

Transcript, RA meeting November 20, 2010
by Rose Springvale » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:53 am
[9:04] Rose Springvale: we can go ahead and begin the meeting. It is a reporting meeting rather than a voting one.
[9:04] Pip Torok: hello Courtney
[9:04] muhammedyussif Wikinger: ok
[9:04] Courtney Beaumont: hi
[9:04] Courtney Beaumont: im new, and im stuck. haha
[9:04] Rose Springvale: Remember that all CDS meetings are transcripted and recorded. This is the citizens concern portion of the meeting Welcome Courtney
[9:04] Lilith Ivory: Hi Courtney
[9:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: oh dear
[9:05] Rose Springvale: what’s wrong muhammed?
[9:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: To little clothes and too much naled skin
[9:05] muhammedyussif Wikinger: naked
[9:06] muhammedyussif Wikinger: in my opinion
[9:06] Lilith Ivory zooms through the room
[9:06] Lilith Ivory: where?
[9:06] Kaseido Quandry is completely lost
[9:06] Rose Springvale is confused too
[9:06] Rose Springvale: perhaps an issue with your viewer?
[9:07] muhammedyussif Wikinger: perhaps it was only me seeing the skirts of Rose going up in the sky
[9:07] Pip Torok wonders where Courtney is
[9:07] Kaseido Quandry does too
[9:07] Lilith Ivory: might have been scared away
[9:07] Rose Springvale: she said she was stuck, maybe under the streets
[9:07] Pip Torok: tell him it’s not _tjhat_ sort of meeting …..
[9:08] Rose Springvale: sending some ims to RA members, no one said they weren’t coming except Keila
[9:10] Rose Springvale: would someone who has arria on their list please send her a reminder. She was online earlier
[9:10] Lilith Ivory: she is not at the moment
[9:10] Rose Springvale: please send a note so it goes to offline?
[9:10] Lilith Ivory: ok
[9:11] Pip Torok: Arria’s not inworld atm …
[9:11] Lilith Ivory: sent her an IM
[9:11] Rose Springvale: thanks
[9:12] Pip Torok: me too!!
[9:12] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:12] Rose Springvale: i sent to gwyn cindy and tor
[9:12] Lilith Ivory: Tor might be kissing babies
[9:12] Rose Springvale: solomon isn’t showing on my list, though we are friends, so not sure what that means!
[9:12] Rose Springvale: any word from mikelo?
[9:12] Pip Torok: … depends how old the babies are ….
[9:12] Rose Springvale: hi Soro
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Hello
[9:13] muhammedyussif Wikinger: Hello
[9:13] Rose Springvale: we are trying to get some of the representatives here… but we are officially in the citizens concern section of the meeting. Want to talk?
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Hello Muh
[9:13] Pip Torok: solomons on my list … want me to im him?
[9:13] Rose Springvale: sure, i think mine is broken
[9:13] Lilith Ivory: sent to Sol
[9:14] Rose Springvale: ah, found him
[9:14] Rose Springvale: soro?
[9:15] Rose Springvale: come on, have a concern
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: Nothing to add . . .
[9:15] Rose Springvale: okay, then we are through that part of the agenda
[9:15] Rose Springvale: Any additions to the agenda?
[9:16] Rose Springvale: not that we can vote on them without a quorum , but we can do our reports i think
[9:16] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:16] Rose Springvale: get them in the record, then the others can post theirs independently i guess
[9:16] Rose Springvale: okay
[9:16] Rose Springvale: 7 day votes
[9:17] Rose Springvale: Cindy was the only one who requested 7 day voting on the last meeting. She didn’t exercise the vote, so the Auditable Data Act failed
[9:17] Kaseido Quandry: oy
[9:17] Rose Springvale: I’ve seen no proposal for anything to replace it, which was what the RA had discussed. So that one dies.
[9:17] Lilith Ivory: oh
[9:18] Rose Springvale: The other legislation we voted on last meeting, the Chancellor Budget and Accountability act, didn’t need the vote, so it stands as law
[9:18] Rose Springvale: Next on the agenda is final reports of the commissions. Let me say a couple of words on that then those of you who have reports can present them
[9:19] Lilith Ivory: I propose to have a graveyard for all good ideas that died
[9:19] Rose Springvale: Continuity is very hard in a community where the government changes every six months
[9:19] Rose Springvale: smiles at lilith
[9:19] Pip Torok: alot depends on the composition of succeeding government imo
[9:20] Rose Springvale: So what i’d really like to see from you commission chairs who’ve been out there working with the community all term would be just a short report… what we did, why, and what you see that still needs to be addressed
[9:20] Rose Springvale: if the successors choose not to take up those matters and build on it, that’s too bad, but at least they won’t have to recreate the wheel. If they choose to undo what has been done, they’ll have easy access
[9:20] Rose Springvale: that said.
[9:21] Rose Springvale: Lil, do you want to report on the Commerce Commission?
[9:21] Lilith Ivory: well, our commision collected a lot of great ideas
[9:21] Lilith Ivory: one was to make the direct TP in NFS permanent
[9:22] Lilith Ivory: I want to thank all again for making this law pass
[9:22] Lilith Ivory: also we founded the office of an commerce commisioner
[9:22] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:22] Lilith Ivory: was that the right word lol?
[9:23] Lilith Ivory: you got me without being prepared hehe
[9:23] Rose Springvale: smile, sounds fine
[9:23] Rose Springvale: sorry
[9:23] Lilith Ivory: anyway I´m looking forward to see a commerce commision next term
[9:23] Courtney Beaumont: hello, am i allowed to be in here=?
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: so we can work with the officer
[9:24] Rose Springvale: public meeting Courtney
[9:24] Courtney Beaumont: excellent.
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: there is still a lot do do to increase commerce in the CDS
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Welcome
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: done for now
[9:24] Rose Springvale: maybe you can pass on some of those great ideas to whoever is appointed. I don’t think anyone has been selected as of now have they?
[9:24] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:24] Lilith Ivory: think so also
[9:25] Rose Springvale: thanks Lilith
[9:25] Rose Springvale: Kas, have anything you want to say? I’ll welcome you two to post reports if you get time, though obviously that’s your option
[9:25] Lilith Ivory: I´m gonna stay in touch with the new chancellor to find me an officer to work with hehe
[9:25] Kaseido Quandry: Oh, given the option, I”ll write up and post a proper report
[9:26] Rose Springvale: Lilith, you’ll be on the RA, so you can take it up
[9:26] Rose Springvale: ah, okay. Did no one get the notices of this meeting? just curious
[9:26] Rose Springvale: i sent three i think
[9:26] Kaseido Quandry: I did
[9:26] Lilith Ivory: but I can still chair the commision if we have one right?
[9:26] Kaseido Quandry: all of them
[9:26] Lilith Ivory: that was my plan
[9:26] Rose Springvale: totally up to the next RA
[9:26] Lilith Ivory: right
[9:26] muhammedyussif Wikinger: me too
[9:27] Lilith Ivory: I got two
[9:27] Lilith Ivory: and one while I was off
[9:27] Rose Springvale: so maybe an intentional boycott. I’d have liked to have skipped too
[9:27] Lilith Ivory: was in the middle of horse birthing hehe
[9:27] Kaseido Quandry: me too – I’ve got a cold and seriously could’ve stayed in bed
[9:28] Rose Springvale: rescheduled travel plans here. oh well. last meeting
[9:28] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:28] Rose Springvale: Shall we adjourn or do you want my recap?
[9:28] Kaseido Quandry: up to you!
[9:28] Lilith Ivory: I´d like to hear it if you want
[9:28] Rose Springvale: okay
[9:29] Rose Springvale: Thank you all for your time and service to CDS.
[9:29] Rose Springvale: having been a public servant here now for 4 years, i know that there is never enough people saying thank you.
[9:29] Pip Torok: back (dns foul-up)
[9:30] Rose Springvale: when we started this term, we started in turmoil
[9:30] Rose Springvale: i ran for RA, and LRA because i mistakenly believed that i could help heal some of that turmoil
[9:30] Rose Springvale: i was dismayed to be made the center of it, But that’s personal
[9:31] Rose Springvale: Publicly,
[9:31] Rose Springvale: we were committed to three things.
[9:31] Rose Springvale: Accessibility
[9:31] Rose Springvale: accountability
[9:31] Rose Springvale: and action
[9:31] Rose Springvale: we delivered on that commitment
[9:31] Rose Springvale: Accessibility
We held 13 voting meetings
-we debated and elected LRA., chancellor, archivist and one appointment to SC
-we voted little things… the way we numbered laws, online indicators, group roles and titles
-we appointed 5 commissions, and heard reports, proposed legislation, and debated many important laws in CDS, which we’ve reviewed here today Together those commissions held approximately 20 more meetings at various times and more than half the CDS population participated in at least one of them.
-we opened communication channels to the citizens, we cleared away outdated campaign restrictions, and created new ways for people to become Citizens[/i] [9:32] Rose Springvale: (strike the review! sometimes preparation has to presume things
[9:32] Rose Springvale: We also held 2 special meetings
-we met with the ownership board of the Al Andalus sims to understand the issues of the citizens regarding the merger
-we opened discussion of CDS expansion to the community
[9:33] Rose Springvale: Accountability
-We clarified and streamlined the way delinquent accounts are handled.
-We clarified and implemented procedures for the review of the budget
-We reported and transcripted all commission and RA meetings and posted them so all could review them at leisure
-We determined that the citizens should choose their Chancellor.
[9:34] Rose Springvale: Action
We have passed and implemented or updated many laws in the Code of Laws. I was going to count them, but thought i’d have time as they were reviewed here. The laws will help assure that CDS continues to be a vital democratic community in SL.
[9:34] Rose Springvale: It is easy and fun to talk about all the great work that was done this term, and review the accomplishments. But what we need to focus on more than looking back and resting on our laurels is what we failed at.
[9:35] Rose Springvale: We began the term with great possiblitiy. We had over 130 citizens, 11 sims.
[9:35] Rose Springvale: we now have 78, with more leaving
[9:35] Rose Springvale: We have no working relationship with the sims who share borders with us as cds
[9:36] Rose Springvale: We have not healed our personal disputes, and continue to see fractious behavior on our forums
[9:36] Rose Springvale: We failed to implement anything, or have meaningful discusson on Conflicts of interest.
[9:37] Rose Springvale: and we failed to gain the respect of many of the people who have been in the community the longest. Looking around the room for me underscorse this.
[9:37] Rose Springvale: Perhaps it is a personal failure, and for that reason i’ll completely withdraw from CDS public life.
[9:38] Rose Springvale: thanks again for working with me this term, and for trying.
[9:38] Rose Springvale: Any concerns of the RA?
[9:38] muhammedyussif Wikinger: I think you made a good job Rose – well done
[9:38] Kaseido Quandry: Rose, thank you for your hard work and your constant patience in the face of provocation
[9:38] Rose Springvale: thanks
[9:39] Rose Springvale: other concerns?
[9:39] Lilith Ivory: I agree with Muh and want to thanky you for doing such a great job as LRA Rose
[9:39] Lilith Ivory: Imo we got more done than a lot of other RAs before
[9:39] Kaseido Quandry: absolutely
[9:39] Rose Springvale: yw… i hope you all have a successful term in the future, though our method has been labeld as boring and lifeless
[9:39] Rose Springvale: so i think perhaps i just don’t know what CDS is anymore
[9:40] Rose Springvale: i think it has become a place where people only like to fight, and that’s just not my way.
[9:40] Rose Springvale: Announcements?
[9:40] Lilith Ivory wonders if there are any plans for an inaugurial ball
[9:41] Rose Springvale: Delia has asked me to announce that the Chancellor election will end at 1:30 tomorrow,
[9:41] Rose Springvale: that being the statutory time period of 168 hours
[9:41] Rose Springvale: I talked to anna last week, and the ball having been one of the things that was codified, should be next weekend i think
[9:41] Rose Springvale: no
[9:42] Rose Springvale: the week after the term begins
[9:42] Rose Springvale: not novembe
[9:42] Anna Toussaint:
[9:42] Anna Toussaint: I haven’t heard of any …
[9:42] Lilith Ivory: Hi Anna
[9:42] Anna Toussaint: Hi, Anna
[9:42] Anna Toussaint: Hi, lilith
[9:42] Anna Toussaint: oops …
[9:42] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:42] Rose Springvale: Thanks for piping up Anna
[9:42] Anna Toussaint: my giddyup hiccuped
[9:42] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:43] Rose Springvale: any other announcements or comments?
[9:43] Anna Toussaint: I haven’t heard of any … is it the current aedministration’s responsibiliity?
[9:43] Rose Springvale: it always has been
[9:43] Anna Toussaint: kk
[9:43] Rose Springvale: because not enough time in the new one to handle it
[9:43] Anna Toussaint: I shall find out
[9:43] Anna Toussaint: nope
[9:43] Rose Springvale: thanks
[9:43] Anna Toussaint: makes sense
[9:43] Anna Toussaint:
[9:44] Rose Springvale: if no one has anything else to say, then we will adjourn
[9:44] Kaseido Quandry sighs
[9:44] Rose Springvale: can’t even have a motion or vote
[9:44] Anna Toussaint: has it been like this the whole meeting?
[9:44] Rose Springvale: Thanks for coming.
[9:45] Lilith Ivory smiles
[9:45] muhammedyussif Wikinger: bye for now
[9:45] Lilith Ivory: thank you for having us
[9:45] Rose Springvale: I’ll transcript this then.

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