Representative Assembly Minutes & Transcripts
Per Representative Assembly procedures, all meetings are recorded and transcripts posted for public review. The following are the transcripts for R.A. meetings for the 10th Assembly. Agenda RA AGENDA 1st FEBRUARY 2009, 8:00 AM SLT, PRAETORIUM Swearing in of RA members, 8:00 sharp I. ADMIN (8:10 to 8:20) II. CHANCELLOR NOMINATION (8:20 to 8:35) III. NEW ITEMS III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA IV. OTHER ITEMS Transcript Meeting on 2009-02-01 Agenda RA AGENDA 8th FEBRUARY 2009, 9:00 AM SLT, PRAETORIUM I. ADMIN (9:00 to 9:15) II. LRA SHORT SLOT (9:15 to 9:20) III. DEPUTY LRA NOMINATION (9:20 to 9:35) IV. CHANCELLOR’s MONTHLY REPORT (9:35 to 9:45) V. GENERAL MASTER PLAN VI. COOPERATION WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES (10:05 to 10:20) VII. CDS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (10:20 to 10:30) VIII. CULTURE ENTERTAINMENT, SPORTS (10:30 to 10:40) IX. OPEN DISCUSSION Transcript Meeting on 2009-02-08 at 08:38 Agenda RA AGENDA 15th FEBRUARY 2009, 9:00 AM SLT, PRAETORIUM I. ADMIN (9:00 to 9:10) II. CHANCELLOR’s MONTHLY REPORT (9:10 to 9:25) III. GENERAL MASTER PLAN (9:25 to 9:35) IV. CDS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT (9:35 to 9:45) V. CULTURE ENTERTAINMENT, SPORTS (9:45 to 9:55) VI. END SESSION NOTES: Transcript Meeting on 2009-02-15 at 09:00 Agenda RA AGENDA 1st MARCH 2009, 9:00 AM SLT The CDS Representative Assembly will meet on 1st March 2009 at 9:00 am SLT (US Pacific Daylight Time) = 18:00 CEU at the Praetorium in Colonia Nova. The meeting is expected to last up to maximum 1 hour. Please see the following link regarding applicable procedural rules, which constrain some of our agenda and speaking time-limit practices: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701 I. ADMIN (9:00 to 9:10) ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA II. NOMINATION OF ALIASI STONEBENDER TO THE SC (9:10 to 9:20) III. RA RULES OF PROCEDURE (9:20 to 9:30) IV. CHANCELLOR’s (bi)MONTHLY REPORT (9:30 to 9:40) V. LAWS FOR TERRITORIAL PLANNING (9:40 to 9:50) VI. OTHER ITEMS Transcript Note: Due to technical issues, a section of the transcript from 9:19 through 10:30SLT omitted text from Jamie Palisades, Chancellor of the CDS. This transcript has been spliced together from the original and amended transcripts to create a single, complete transcript. 09:00Symo Kurka: Hello Soro 10:30Symo Kurka: Thank you Jamie and bye Agenda The CDS Representative Assembly will meet on 1st March 2009 at 9:00 am SLT (US Pacific Daylight Time) at the Praetorium in Colonia Nova. The meeting is expected to last up to maximum 1 hour. Please see the following link regarding applicable procedural rules, which constrain some of our agenda and speaking time-limit practices: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701 I. ADMIN (9:00 to 9:10) ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA I. DRAFT REFERENDUM BILL (9:00 to 9:10) II. OTHER ITEMS Transcript RA Meeting March 29 TRANSCRIPT WHEREAS, the current flag of the CDS, with two stars, was adopted shortly after the addition of Colonia Nova, and WHEREAS, there was at least a tacit suggestion that we add a star per sim to the flag, and WHEREAS. the GMP calls for a continent of up to 47 regions, and WHEREAS, that’s a lot of stars to squeeze onto one flag Therefore be it resolved that the CDS flag shall henceforth have three stars, representing the three branches (representative, philosophic, and executive) of our government , placed on the hoist side (see attached TGA files) I’m just a virtual girl in a virtual world… Gwyneth Llewelyn RA Meeting 5 April 2009 TRANSCRIPT RA meeting 19 April 2009 TRANSCRIPT (two parts) The Curator of the Monastery and the CDS have to make an agreement about the way the current plot of the Monastery on Alpine Meadow will be set for sale. I would suggest an exchange of land, as the CDS maybe intends to redesign the plot of Alpine Meadow I also confirm that I am ready to pay the fees (based on CDS average prim price) of the 6 other plots for 4 months since the opening of the new sim, if they don’t have an owner in this period of time. I will pay them at my own expense and not with the money of Virtus. My proposal for fees on the new sim is here (based on prim price) RA Transcript: 17 May 2009 RA Transcript: 31 May 2009 (continued) Al Andalus Expansion Proposal: Final Resolved 1. The six Al Andalus sims and four CDS sims will merge as one territory on acceptance of this offer by AA’s managers; all land owning residents of AA will become CDS citizens, and land, rentals and administration of AA assets will be the responsibility of the established structures in the CDS government. 2. AA’s SL groups will be maintained and administratively supported by CDS government, including the public interest lists; members of those lists may also be invited as appropriate to join other CDS groups. The exception is that SL groups used for land administration (in other words, government, not citizen groups) may be altered and consolidated. 3. As a project operated in Linden Lab’s “Educational sim” class, AA sims may only be transferred to another duly qualified nonprofit organization. AA sims will be maintained in their current nonprofit status, and [transferred to a new nonprofit organization as stated in paragraph 5. The AA sims will remain at their current rents, tier and pricing, for one year after acceptance, so long as the Linden sim tier prices applicable to them do not change. [See Section 8 also, regarding the first year of the merged estates.]
Public land and buildings in AA shall become the property of CDS. All AA community builds will be subject to CDS law regarding community assets and theme build protection for AA’s recreation of 13th century Arabic Granada, Spain. AA makes no representation that such structures will be available as copies for archive purposes, but will CDS government and AA management each warrant that they are aware of no present nonconforming builds or covenant violations on the AA sims. All building, structure and style terms of the present AA covenant will be retained. 4. The CDS RA will be increased by a number equal to the higher of In calculating that number, (a) each new CDS citizen from AA will be counted, plus (b) any “converting dual citizens.” A “converting dual citizen” is a current CDS citizen who wishes to designate AA’s sims as their primary residence within CDS; who does so by informing the CDS chancellor in writing within a reasonably set deadline; and who does not currently serve on the CDS RA. The additional vacant RA positions will be filled by a process designated by AA management, consistent with AA law, from among persons who are (a) new CDS citizens from AA will be counted and (b) any “converting dual citizens.” The newly selected RA members shall serve either (a)] the remainder of the current RA term [or (b), if they are selected less than one month prior to the closing date for RA candidacy in the next RA general election, for the remainder of the current term plus the next term. 5. A new nonprofit organization shall be established to be the sim holder of record, using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the benefit of the CDS government. The estate owner for the AA Sims for the first year will be nominated by AA, to serve until the eighth calendar day after the one year anniversary of the actual sim relocation, and afterwards by the usual CDS government methods. The AA EO must (a) act as an officer or agent of the new nonprofit entity; (b) agree to report to and take direction from the CDS government under the same terms as the current CDS EO, subject to the terms explicitly stated in this offer; and (c) agree to cooperate with the affiliation or merger of the new nonprofit entity, with a later new CDS nonprofit organization, if at a later time the CDS by legislation elects to subject the ownership of its other CDS sims to control by a nonprofit organizations. 6. CDS will open a funded local sim event programming panel, on the same terms to be used for other CDS communities, for the AA estate. CDS government and AA management each warrant that they are aware of no theme, feasibility or appropriateness issues with the cultural and event programming activities presently conducted on ther AA sims. 7. This offer will remain open for 60 days from the date this resolution is adopted. AA may accept by its current EO so stating in writing, so long as: CDS and AA will submit a territory sim join request to Linden Lab, when and if that acceptance is received and those conditions are met] within the allotted time. [CDS will pay the applicable sim location transfer fees. 8. CDS and AA agree that, on the one year anniversary of the actual sim relocation, and for seven calendar days thereafter: RA meeting 7 June 2009 TRANSCRIPT RA Minutes 14 June 2009 (3 parts) (continued in next reply) (continued in next reply)
10th Representative Assembly
RA Meeting: February 01, 2009
Speech of LRA
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
d. Future RA schedule: confirm 8th February 2009
e. Confirmation of two new nominations in SC
a. Proposals, discussion and vote
a. RA discussion on this term’s priorities (8:35 to 8:50)
b. RA discussion on possible new RA organization (8:50 to 9:00)
a. Report from prior RA members and discussion (9:00 to 9:10)
a. Open Citizens’ Proposals and Discussion (9:10 to 9:30)
b. Adjournment (9:30)
Those present:
Symo Kurka is in the chair.
Justice Soothsayer: hi Symo
Symo Kurka: Hello Justice
Symo Kurka: Did not manage to get in touch with Piblius
Symo Kurka: *Publius
Justice Soothsayer: he doesnt come to Sunday AM meetings due to church conflcit
Justice Soothsayer: uh, that is, going to church is a time conflict for him, not that his church has a conflict!
Justice Soothsayer: ooh, I like the new decor
Symo Kurka: )
Justice Soothsayer: torch sconces coming out of the middle of the painting are a little disconcerting
Symo Kurka: Yes
Symo Kurka: Have to ask Moon if she can move them
Justice Soothsayer: but the Neufreistadt rock is very nice
Symo Kurka: I cannot
Symo Kurka: Yeah that is Magritte
Symo Kurka: I find it very similar
Symo Kurka: to NFS
Justice Soothsayer: didnt know Magritte visited us!
Symo Kurka: Lol
Symo Kurka: Hello Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: good morning all
Justice Soothsayer: hi Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: hi justice
Soro Dagostino: Hello
Cindy Ecksol: hi soro
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, since Cindy is here it reminds me that we have nominees for SC; should we add this to the agenda?
Symo Kurka: Yes
Pip Torok: yes … hi everyone
Symo Kurka: I already added in the Agenda update
Symo Kurka: Thank you all for beeing sharp guys
Soro Dagostino: Symo, small correction
Symo Kurka: Yes Soro?
Soro Dagostino: The time is not daylight.
Soro Dagostino: It is standard.
Symo Kurka: lol Soro YOUR time is not daylight
Jamie Palisades: Good morning all. Or such time as it is, anyway.
Symo Kurka: hello Jamie
Pip Torok: hi Jamie
Symo Kurka: .. and welcome Sonja
Sonja Strom: hi everybody!
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino: Hello Sonja — Jamie.
Sonja Strom: Hi Delia!
Delia Lake: hello everyone
Pip Torok: Hi Delia!
Soro Dagostino: Hello Delia
Symo Kurka: Do all new RA members have the text of our oath?
Cindy Ecksol: I have it for anyone who needs it
Soro Dagostino: No.
Pip Torok: yes …
Lilith Ivory: hi there
Pip Torok: symo it IS new members who need take the oath , no?
Sonja Strom: Hi Lilith!
Pip Torok: hi Lilith
Symo Kurka: Uh nice question
Soro Dagostino: Hello Rain
Delia Lake: hi Lilith, hi Rain
Pip Torok: no matter i can always take it again
Cindy Ecksol: rain, what are you doing down there, you little cutie!
Rain Ninetails: hi
Rain Ninetails: meeeoo
Pip Torok: hi Rain
Cindy Ecksol: cats may take seats too I think: they are really people
Pip Torok: Sol! hi
Sonja Strom: Hi Rain!
Cindy Ecksol: whoops! we lost jamie
Rain Ninetails: hi Sonja!
Sonja Strom: Cats are people too, yes
Symo Kurka: Well
Cindy Ecksol: morning solomon
Lilith Ivory: Hi Sol
Sonja Strom: Hi Solomon!
Solomon Mosely: morning cindy
Sonja Strom: Hi Sudane!
Solomon Mosely: hello sonja
Sudane Erato: hi
Solomon Mosely: hello all
Lilith Ivory: hi Sudane
Sudane Erato: hi
Symo Kurka: Hello all
Symo Kurka: Please View Agenda in
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2317
Symo Kurka: I’ll get now agreements to record session, so please touch the black recorder under the table
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades wipes cloud-poof-dust off …sorry, more crashes than usual lately. Can’t say much nice about SL stability right now,
Rain Ninetails has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades: I agree to being recorded.
Symo Kurka: Now first poinyt, all NEW RA members have to swear
Symo Kurka: Cindy?
Cindy Ecksol: yes, symo
Symo Kurka: will you please start?
Cindy Ecksol: actually I have to go last: I have to administer the oath on behalf of my colleagues on SC
Symo Kurka: Ok
Cindy Ecksol: technically I’m still SC….
Symo Kurka: Soro?
AO R [script:radioset]: Script run-time error
AO R [script:radioset]: Stack-Heap Collision
Soro Dagostino: —
I, [YOUR NAME], having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Cindy Ecksol: lol!
Soro Dagostino: Soro
Symo Kurka: lol
Symo Kurka: Soro…
Delia Lake has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: Soro, would you like to repeat after me?
Symo Kurka: Please soro repeat the oath with your name
Soro Dagostino: —
I, Soro Dagostino, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Cindy Ecksol: thank you, soro
Pip Torok: applause!
Symo Kurka: Thank you, Sonja?
Cindy Ecksol: who is next?
Sonja Strom: I, Sonja Strom, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Justice Soothsayer: Me, I think.
Justice Soothsayer: I, Justice Soothsayer, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Symo Kurka: Thank you. Pip?
Pip Torok: I, Pip Torok, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Symo Kurka: I, Symo Kurka, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Symo Kurka: Ok,
Symo Kurka: we can start
Cindy Ecksol: thank you all
Cindy Ecksol: and I now officially resign my seat on SC
Cindy Ecksol: I, Cindy Ecksol, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Symo Kurka: Great, thank you Cindy
Jamie Palisades applauds all our new and returning senators
Symo Kurka: I’m sorry, but I have to..
Justice Soothsayer: welcome back from the Dark Side, Cindy.
Cindy Ecksol: thank you justice
Symo Kurka: LRA speech
Cindy Ecksol inserts eyelid props
Symo Kurka: Friends, citizens, guests of he CDS.
Symo Kurka: When Sonja opened the thread “What we like about the CDS” in our forum
Symo Kurka: somebody of you wrote a sentence which i liked a lot. Let me quote here:
Symo Kurka: “In CDS I like all the unsung heroes who spend hours and hours of time trying to realize a dream when we aren’t even sure what the dream is.”
Symo Kurka: Just a few words about dreams.
Symo Kurka: We cannot live without dreams, we would be monsters.
Symo Kurka: The Dream is Life.
Symo Kurka: And here in our community we all are following a Dream, one Dream.
Symo Kurka: his Dream belongs to all Cds citizens of past and present times
Symo Kurka: and we know it’s a complex, long lasting dream: the first RA meeting was held in january 2005, exactly four years ago.
Symo Kurka: How many dreams do last four years??
Symo Kurka: We all must be grateful to oldies overall, the “unsung heros” who still believe in this dream and still work hard for it.
Symo Kurka: To them I ask to be patient with newbies if they soemtimes repeat what you already know.
Symo Kurka: Newbies are precious because they bring in new energies for the Dream.
Symo Kurka: And to CDS newbies I ask to be patient with oldies if sometimes they seem to be elitarian.
Symo Kurka: CDS Oldies are precious because they are experienced.
Symo Kurka: So let’s go on alltogether building our Dream.
Symo Kurka: No hurry to know “what the dream is”.
Symo Kurka: We are slowly discovering what the Dream is, like children who discover the world.
Symo Kurka: Best wishes to you all.
Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Symo Kurka: I’m finished
Sudane Erato: bravo Symo!!
Jamie Palisades smiles and applauds
Lilith Ivory: applause
Sonja Strom claps
Justice Soothsayer: nicely said
Sudane Erato: great!
Patroklus Murakami claps
Rose Springvale cheers for Symo
Symo Kurka: Let’s go on now
Pip Torok: claps
Symo Kurka: Any suggestions for Agenda items?
Delia Lake:
Symo Kurka: Ok
Symo Kurka: anyone who wants to sign up to speak on any of the agenda items?
Symo Kurka: Ok
Symo Kurka: Next RA scheduled for 8th February
Symo Kurka: Details will follow in foreum
Sonja Strom: Do we know what time it will start?
Symo Kurka: We have now top confirm two new nominations in SC
Jamie Palisades: Symo, a quick question on that meeting>
Jamie Palisades: ?
Symo Kurka: Sorry Sonja, not yet, we’ll fikx it through usual sw
Sonja Strom: ok
Symo Kurka: Yes?
Jamie Palisades: Mind was the same as sonja’s, sorry. Interested in meetings that all can attend, and perhaps not taking everyone;s weekend family or church time every week
Jamie Palisades: I’ll wait to her
Jamie Palisades: hear
Symo Kurka: Ok I’ll have in mind
Symo Kurka: Now next point
Symo Kurka: The SC has put forward Aliasi Stonebender and Delia Lake as new SC members. T
Symo Kurka: The RA has to confirm the two nominations
Soro Dagostino: So move
Symo Kurka: And i personally would proceed to vote
Cindy Ecksol: second
Symo Kurka: For confirmation, say aye if youa agree
Justice Soothsayer: It would be nice to hear from the nominees
Pip Torok: aye
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Soro Dagostino: Aye
Justice Soothsayer: No. Not that I don’t believe they would be good, just that we should hear from them first.
Symo Kurka: Justice?
Sonja Strom: I would like to hear a little bit from them, like maybe what they would like to bring to the SC —
Sonja Strom: it can be something short.
Symo Kurka: This was not in the agenda, which is quite stuck and btw already late
Jamie Palisades: so there are, just as an inquiry for a poit of order, Mr. LRA, 3 votes in favor and 2 against and you have not voted?
Justice Soothsayer: We’ve had a lot of discussion about what the role of the SC should be in our demoncracy. I’d like to hear what the nominees have to say about that question.
Justice Soothsayer: We have 30 days to confirm.
Sonja Strom: The agenda is for us, not the other way around.
Cindy Ecksol: I agree
Pip Torok: agree
Cindy Ecksol: delia is here, I’m sure she can speak for herself
Symo Kurka: I suggest that we vorte now and we invite our dear friends to explain theur intentions in next RA meeting
Cindy Ecksol: and we should not delay confirming at least one member
Justice Soothsayer: Putting thecare before the horse, i fear.
Justice Soothsayer: *cart
Sonja Strom: I will withhold my vote until I hear something from them.
Justice Soothsayer: It is hearing the views of the nominees that should inform the vote, not the other way around.
Soro Dagostino: Point of Order?
Jamie Palisades sighs quietly. Mr Lra, is the vote pending, or withdrawn?
Pip Torok: i will withold my vote as well
Symo Kurka: Funny guys
Soro Dagostino: Is that an abstention?
Symo Kurka: We will discuss it in next RA ok?
Cindy Ecksol: symo, excuse me
Cindy Ecksol: we cannot leave hear without confirming at least one new SC member
Symo Kurka: Cindy?
Symo Kurka: Ok
Symo Kurka: Delia
Cindy Ecksol: please allow discussion in the form of a short address from delia
Cindy Ecksol: than you.
Symo Kurka: can you shortly tell us what ?your view of SC is?
Symo Kurka: Delia?
Delia Lake: yes, Symo. the SC has the specific role of certifying elections
Delia Lake: and also of hearing disputes especially related to the CDS consitution
Pip Torok: brb telephone
Justice Soothsayer: Delia, under what circumstances shoul dthe SC invalidate a law passed by the democratically elected RA?
Delia Lake: the SC should invalidate a law if it is in conflict with the constitution
Justice Soothsayer: and how do you decide that?
Symo Kurka: Delia?
Symo Kurka: I suppose somebody crashed
Symo Kurka: and .. sorry
Symo Kurka: can we go on?
Cindy Ecksol: symo, I suggest we defer the vote until after other business
Sonja Strom: hm, maybe we can move to another topic, and return to this one later.
Justice Soothsayer: good idea
Symo Kurka: ok
Symo Kurka: next topic
Symo Kurka: I agree
Symo Kurka: CHANCELLOR NOMINATION
Symo Kurka: wow
Symo Kurka: lo+
Sonja Strom: Aliasi might come along too.
Sudane Erato:
Justice Soothsayer: Let’s have a little discussion before we vote on this one
Symo Kurka: Oh sure guys
Symo Kurka: My ears are getting big, I’m anxious to hear
Sonja Strom: lol
Soro Dagostino: Nominate Jamie Palisades
Symo Kurka: But I see nobody asking to sp?eak
Cindy Ecksol: second
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, RA members don’t have to ask to speak about items on the agenda.
Jamie Palisades smiles. Should I simply indicate that I accept, as a candidate? I might have posted something along those lines to the Forum , so it may not be a surprise to those present.
Justice Soothsayer: I do have one or two questions for Jamie
Jamie Palisades: Perhaps someone, say, CSDF members, have questions?
Symo Kurka: Justice, you said [8:35] Justice Soothsayer: Let’s have a little discussion before we vote on this one
Soro Dagostino: Do you pay overtime?
Jamie Palisades: ah Justice, Prefer a short introductory comment from me first, or questions first?
Soro Dagostino:
Symo Kurka: Do i have to intend this silence as an agreement to Jamie Palisades confirmation?
Justice Soothsayer: Feel free to make comments first, Jamie, if you like, though you have an excellent statement on the forum. Then I would like to ask a question.
Jamie Palisades: Thank you. Just this, then:
Jamie Palisades: My own views on items f acing us are fairly clear .. for one thing I have posted regualrly reports and ideas to the forum, where their are quite serachable .. and get a lot of replies as well Not all chancellors, ah, chose to use the forum that way, but following the model of my SP predecessor Aliasi, I thought it a good idea to get ideas our for pulic comment.
So if you want to know what I have in mind read the forums. As justice says, It’s all there….
Jamie Palisades: Of course, my own most recently posting, here, reflect my most current concerns, and those which colleaguges have helped me identify:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2319
Jamie Palisades: I’m very pleased with our success at events programming and clearning up adminstrative matters — the website, prims, land monitoring methods so far — this last term.
Jamie Palisades: MOderately satisfied wit a very conservative, safe resposnse to the messes in economic and LL land rules we encountered this last six months.
Jamie Palisades: Not so satisfied with our responses so far to Arria’s proposal and the AL Andalaus opportunity.
Jamie Palisades: I expect those will be active topics for the RA this term
Jamie Palisades: and I except us to approach them, as all things, more in the spirit of Symo’s comments this morning …
Jamie Palisades: .. how to facilitate a diversity of dreams and creativity … and in a fair, safe way ….
Jamie Palisades: .. not was a not-onvented-here game of blocking each other’s ideas ni favor of stasis, or in favor of one’s own.
Justice Soothsayer raises hand
Jamie Palisades: Horse traduign does not refeolect well on us. I look forward to CDS continuing to leave that old style behind. And reqritign ourselves as faciltators, not political gamers. ,.
Jamie Palisades: Thanks
Jamie Palisades: Justice?
Sonja Strom claps
Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, first let me say that you have done an outstanding job as Chancellor.
Justice Soothsayer: These have been very challenging times, both for CDS and the outside world (linden and RL) and you have balanced things well.
Delia Lake apologizes for crashing
Justice Soothsayer: I just want to follow up on your comment about Al Andalus.
Justice Soothsayer: What are your thoughts on how we should approach AA? Should we consider this as a one-off opportunity, or engage in some structural changes to accommodate the opportunity for closer ties? Should this be a legislative initiative, or an executive one?
Jamie Palisades: Justice, I think we need to make it safe for the to come here, Which has three parts. and then there are two considerations on our side.
Jamie Palisades: let’s leave legisl-exec for last and concentrate on the substance first
Jamie Palisades: thigns they need as I see it:
Jamie Palisades: — an answer to whether we’d affiliate only in a physical move, or leaving both estates wher ethey are
Jamie Palisades: — a genuine comfort level with the stavility, maturity, and commitment ot diversity from our government, so that they can happiyl be subject to our laws without concern about disruption to their own “life”, which is trundling around just fine.
Jamie Palisades: (in otehr words, if they join us, do we start doing all sorts if thigns that mess them up?)
Jamie Palisades: the right answer would be “no” by the way
Jamie Palisades: and third, from their end, a structure to allow them to continue doing their programming
Jamie Palisades: in other words
Jamie Palisades: if they estate adds to our balacne sheet, theyd probably lilke some basis for believing that all the combined event money does not go to accordionsm beer and togas
Jamie Palisades: that’s THEIR three issues as I see it
Jamie Palisades: after months of meeting and thinking – GENTLY, not in the triumphalist conquistdor tone I have seen from a few of the overenthusiastic
Jamie Palisades: now
Jamie Palisades: CDS, WE, have some concerns too
Jamie Palisades: I see two
Jamie Palisades: one is whetehr they are fiscally stable in a manner that would make them a good addition for us, and not degrade out position
Jamie Palisades: that’s math
Jamie Palisades: the answer appears to be yes, but i expect to bring a case to the RA on that
Jamie Palisades: the second is the subjective one
Jamie Palisades: does CDS want to do this?
Jamie Palisades: well
Jamie Palisades: heh
Jamie Palisades: many of my dear friends here feel strongly that CDS is a representative democracythrough its allpowerful factions
Jamie Palisades: so I guess we find our if CDS wants to do this first by inforaml postings of plans to the forum, and citizern feedback’…
Jamie Palisades: and then with an RA vote
Jamie Palisades: which leads me to my final point, your question about who ACTS here
Jamie Palisades: it works in my view exactly like a native sim additionb
Jamie Palisades: some financial feasibility details must be developed and brought to RA
Jamie Palisades: that’s my jon
Jamie Palisades: job – assume you reappoint me to it
Jamie Palisades: and the RA must approve maps and land acqusitions and covenants
Jamie Palisades: as lways
Jamie Palisades: abasically, a theme and L$ feasibility decision
Jamie Palisades: done, thanks. Did I answer ?
Symo Kurka: Ahhhh lawyers…. Jamie the subject is important but we are monopolizing here the attention on AA … while we just have to confirm (or not) our efficient chancellor…
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks for a thoughtful answer to a complicated question.
Symo Kurka: Great
Jamie Palisades: oh, yes, and also, I talk too much it;s the transparency thing
Soro Dagostino: Call the question
Symo Kurka: any other (short) question???
Sonja Strom: Yes
Sonja Strom: Jamie, you said “Horse traduign does not refeolect well on us. I look forward to CDS continuing to leave that old style behind.” On the surface this sounds good, but I am curious what you actually mean by it.
Sonja Strom: First, how do you define “horse trading”?
Symo Kurka smiles
Justice Soothsayer: Symo understanding the chancello’rs view of the proper executive-legislative balance is important in deciding whether to hire a candidate for the job.
Sonja Strom: Second, could you give a specific example?
Jamie Palisades: well, Sonja, I have seen a lot of energy in CDS that SHOUDL go to promoting and assisting citizens with their creative projects diverted instead to plots on how to stop projects
Pip Torok: (back now)
Jamie Palisades: or , takign good projects and making of them games — and ingoring the projects themelves.
Jamie Palisades: And no, I decline to name bad actors, I do not think that promotes our efforts at collaboration. but let me give an illustratin of something badly handled by us all.
Cindy Ecksol: here here!!
Sonja Strom: I think I see that, like not helping to make things better, but only being critical?
Jamie Palisades: Yes
Jamie Palisades: exactly so
Sonja Strom: ok
Jamie Palisades: people with a critique should bring alternatives, not just attacks
Jamie Palisades: or else we lose our creatives
Sonja Strom: An illustration of what your are talking about would be helpful for the understanding of all of us, I think.
Jamie Palisades: Well let me mnake a short comment then, and see if in obediance to Symo I can make it compact.
Jamie Palisades: Arria brought us a cool idea regading the monastery.
Sonja Strom: Sure, but the question was posed to you by a member of the RA .
Jamie Palisades: Only a fool owuld miss the fact that this was a genuine, positive attempt to contribute somethign substantial to CDS.
Jamie Palisades grins at sonja – me? speak briefly? me? heh
Jamie Palisades: Arrisa’s proposla got tied up in our economic and void pricing mess
Jamie Palisades: but
Jamie Palisades: even before that
Jamie Palisades: it was rushed to the RA in sort of a half-formed, undefined plan
Jamie Palisades: so it did NOT get the kind of attention up front that would have given it the best chance of success
Jamie Palisades: we are a community
Jamie Palisades: we need to compromise, listen and bend — all of us
Jamie Palisades: instead, it became a rigid take it or leave it
Jamie Palisades: not our best way to encouarge contributios
Jamie Palisades: done
Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
Symo Kurka: Other questions folks?
Cindy Ecksol: I move we vote
Justice Soothsayer: Not from me. OK to vote.
Sonja Strom: Second
Symo Kurka: Ok
Pip Torok: what motion are we voting for?
Symo Kurka: Does Ra confirm Jamie >Palisades as Chancellor for this term?
Pip Torok: ah
Cindy Ecksol: I move we vote to affirm Jamie as chancellor by affirmation
Symo Kurka: say aye if you want him
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye
Pip Torok: aye
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Soro Dagostino: Aye
Symo Kurka: and aye
Pip Torok: applause ….
Patroklus Murakami applauds
Symo Kurka: Delia are yous till here?
Sudane Erato: yay!
Rose Springvale: bravo!
Delia Lake: yes
Sonja Strom claps
Justice Soothsayer: Congrats Jamie
Lilith Ivory: applause
Symo Kurka applauds
Pip Torok: all the best Jamie!
Jamie Palisades: Thank you, ladies & gentlemen & I will settle happily for five votes from those awake.
Soro Dagostino: Yay!
Sudane Erato: hehe
Sonja Strom: lol
Symo Kurka: Is Ms Delia Lake awake?
Delia Lake: yes
Symo Kurka: Ok
Symo Kurka: i give five minutes to fulfill the previous subject
Jamie Palisades: Six votes, thanks, my correction.
Sonja Strom: All RA members present.
Justice Soothsayer: where we left off was the question of the role of the SC in invalidating laws that conflict with the constitution. I’d like to know whether Dalia would be reluctant to do so, and how she would determine whether a law conflicts with the constitution.
Symo Kurka: No more questions for Delia?
Soro Dagostino: Relogging — so much lag
Sonja Strom: ok
Delia Lake: Justice, I would not be reluctant to flag a law that seemed to me to be in violation of the Constitution
Cindy Ecksol notices 70,183 in world
Delia Lake: the process as I understand it is one of review, public notice, and discussion before the SC votes on a matter of conflict
Delia Lake: It seems to me that is a good process as it should be transparent
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks, Dalia.
Justice Soothsayer: sorry, Delia.
Sonja Strom: I move we vote to confirm Delia as a new member of the Scientific Council.
Pip Torok: seconded
Symo Kurka: Ok vote aye for Delia’s confirmation in SC
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Symo Kurka: aye and best wishes Delia
Delia Lake: thank you
Pip Torok: and mine too, Delia!!
Sudane Erato: yay!
Lilith Ivory: applause
Patroklus Murakami: congratulations delia
Symo Kurka claps
Sonja Strom claps
Rose Springvale: wow, great team we are getting here!
Pip Torok: quite right, Rose
Symo Kurka: Now
Symo Kurka: Next Item
Justice Soothsayer: worth of a press release, Rose
Rose Springvale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Rose Springvale: smile
Symo Kurka: i know it’s very unusual
Rose Springvale: up to the pio
Symo Kurka: discussing about priorities
Symo Kurka: but
Symo Kurka: it might be an interesting new approach
Symo Kurka: so
Symo Kurka: i invite faction members to proceed
Symo Kurka: with their point of views on this term’s priorities
Sonja Strom: Hi Gwyneth!
Symo Kurka: Hi Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
Lilith Ivory: Hi Gwyn
Sonja Strom: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Better late than never, they say…
Symo Kurka: I know we all discussed about priorities
Symo Kurka: we can go on on Forum if you prefer
Symo Kurka: or just announce the list of priorities here in RA
Symo Kurka: +and go on in discussions in Forum
Cindy Ecksol: speaking for myself, symo, I am perfectly comfortable with the priorities that jamie has outlines
Cindy Ecksol: outlined
Cindy Ecksol: last term was very productive, and I’m looking forward to this term being even more interesting
Symo Kurka: CSDF?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: one second, we have 5 priorities
Symo Kurka: kk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: copying and pasting
Justice Soothsayer: I think it is a fine to do list as well, but would want to put in a special word endorsing encouraging creativity.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok mmmh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: here it goes….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1. Cooperation with other communities.
Moon Adamant: hello all
Lilith Ivory: hi moon
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2. Culture and the Arts.
Delia Lake: hi Moon
Moon Adamant is so sorry for being late
Pip Torok: hi Moon!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3. More Citizen Participation
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4. Electoral Reform (oh yes, we haven’t forgotten )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and 5. Redevelopment
Justice Soothsayer: btw, we should make Gwyn swear
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good point!
Pip Torok: true Justice!
Justice Soothsayer: and I don’t mean curse.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Symo Kurka: Lol
Justice Soothsayer: That comes later.
Sudane Erato: hehe
Rose Springvale: i can make gwyn swear…
Rose Springvale:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I, Gwyneth Llewelyn, having been elected as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly swear that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
Symo Kurka: Ok thank you Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
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Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles at Rose too
Pip Torok: applause!!
Jamie Palisades smiles, applauds the Senator from FIC
Jamie Palisades: heh
Symo Kurka: Is there any place where we can read details on your priorities doc?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: pfft
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Symo
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m looking for a link
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I should also say that we’re really preparing some bills for all these points
Symo Kurka: Sonja is there any doc on priorities from your faction?
Sonja Strom: Not that I know of as such, but our party platform is posted in the CDS Forum.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: More details here: viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2249 (“Our goals for 2009”)
Symo Kurka: Thank you Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (the bills are ‘under writing’, as soon as we have some of them finished for open discussion, they’ll be posted on the forums as usual)
Symo Kurka: So we have two detailed priorities docs, from SP and from CSDF
Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=2252
Sonja Strom: This platform was approved by a vote of the DPU membership.
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Gwyneth Llewelyn: Same here for the CSDF actually….
Symo Kurka: I invite evrybody to read them and we’ll get back on this subject next week
Sonja Strom: However, we have arrived at a short list of our five main priorities that we can share with the community here.
Sonja Strom: Review of General Master Plan, especially with regard to addition of new sim(s) that would expand the mountain-oriented Alpine theme.
Symo Kurka: Ok Sonja go on
Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
Sonja Strom: Clarification of the role of the New Guild in the community, including its structure and its relationship to the CDS government.
Sonja Strom: Continuing the work of the Election Commission.
Sonja Strom: Referendum Voting allowed, where the RA could place yes/no questions on the ballot for the citizens to vote on.
Sonja Strom: Making the CDS a more interesting and fun place to be.
Sonja Strom: Thanks
Jamie Palisades: /Me listens to Sonja, raises his hand for afterwards
Sonja Strom: Jamie?
Jamie Palisades: Let me just say, with affection for all factions including my own, that I am a skeptic of platforms. Some hold them in great esteem. But to quote my mother, of sainted memory … action talks, bombast walks Well. It was SOME word with a “b” anyway. So let us all strive to impress our colleagues with well-drafted adopted legislation and effective acts, not plans
Symo Kurka: You can speak Jamie
Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
Jamie Palisades: I have read a lot of creat CDS faction platforms
Jamie Palisades: perhaps we could pave the road to sim 5 with them
Jamie Palisades: done
Moon Adamant:
Symo Kurka: We are not speaking about platforms, we are speaking about goals and priorities
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, goals and priorities.
Justice Soothsayer: Indeed, the platforms DO pa ve the role to our next sims(s).
Symo Kurka: which makes some difference
Symo Kurka: anyway
Symo Kurka: I’ll try to summarize all your documents for next week
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Mr LRA
Jamie Palisades: (nice turn of phrase, Justice )
Symo Kurka: and we’ll go on with this discussion
Symo Kurka: Yw Ms Gwyn
Symo Kurka: Now
Symo Kurka: Sorry if my inexperience brought us late
Rose Springvale giggles… cds meeting running late? never happens….
Jamie Palisades: Symo, a point of order, if this agenda item is done?
Pip Torok: (now now Rose!:)
Symo Kurka: Yes this pagenda item is done and will be repeated in next RA…I’ll postpone
Symo Kurka: I’ll postpone to next RA discussion on possible new RA organization
Danton Sideways has indicated consent to be recorded.
Jamie Palisades: Havign been appointed, shall I take the oath, Symo?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Symo Kurka: Oh yes JaMie sorry
Rose Springvale can make jamie sweart too!
Cindy Ecksol smiles
Sonja Strom: Does the SP have any priorities?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Rose
Lilith Ivory: hehe
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, I’ll note under that item that we should appoint an RA Archivist and a LRA pro temporte.
Symo Kurka: Yes Sonja
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Sonja’s questioN!
Jamie Palisades: I had the impression ther were mentioned by Cindy and myself earlier
Symo Kurka: Jamie
Cindy Ecksol: Sonja, Jamie’s priorites (linked early) are ours….
Symo Kurka: it was not so clear
Jamie Palisades: shall we repeat? Is there a preference for text chat over web URI’s?
Sonja Strom: oh, hm
Symo Kurka: Jamie
Symo Kurka: 1) LINK
Symo Kurka: 2) swear
Jamie Palisades: very well
Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2319
Jamie Palisades: was my short form – and the longer one for the faction is here =>
Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2318
Jamie Palisades: .. and …
Symo Kurka: Ok now swear please
Jamie Palisades: I, Jamie Palisades, having been appointed as Chancellor of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm …
Jamie Palisades: … that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of Confederation of Democratic Simulators. Thank you.
Symo Kurka applauds
Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Lilith Ivory: applauds
Moon Adamant applauds
Soro Dagostino: Wooot!
Gwyneth Llewelyn claps
Pip Torok: applauds
Sonja Strom claps
Symo Kurka: Now
Solomon Mosely applauds!
Rose Springvale: bravo.
Sudane Erato: yay boss… congradulations!!
Rose Springvale:
Symo Kurka: Point b) possible new RA organization
Symo Kurka: it’s postponed
Symo Kurka: but i just want you to know
Symo Kurka: My personal opinion is that RA members should work in “commissions”, involving non RA citizens.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Jamie Palisades raises hand for question
Symo Kurka: Commissions’ subjects could be, for instance:
Cindy Ecksol: symo, perhaps you could put some details on what you have in mind on the forum this week
Symo Kurka: 1- CDS economy – commerce – business
2- Territorial policy
3- Culture, education, sports
4- Foreign affairs
But I am open to other suggestions.
Jamie Palisades: (it will wait)
Symo Kurka: We will not discuss this today
Symo Kurka: just have in mind
Symo Kurka: Sure Cindy
Symo Kurka: All governments have ministries and paRLIAMENT commissions
Symo Kurka: ..
Symo Kurka: Now
Symo Kurka: as I was saying this item is postponed to discussion in next RA
Symo Kurka: next III. ITEMS TO BE CONTINUED FROM PRIOR RA
Jamie Palisades: Symo
Jamie Palisades: sory, still have question
Symo Kurka: I ask Gwyn or Justice
Symo Kurka: kk
Symo Kurka: yes Jamie?
Justice Soothsayer waits for Jamie
Jamie Palisades: Justice, did RA not inherit form last term a need to designate a deputy RA for continuity purposes? I do not feel a rush – something for Symo to consult with you all about — but just wanted to confirm that the post still now exists?
Symo Kurka: well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Justice mentioned that before.
Symo Kurka: yes
Jamie Palisades: OK good thx, sorry if I missed it
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, we have the LRA pro tempore position to fill
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka: So will Justice or Gwyn briefly report on this subject?
Justice Soothsayer: We could do that now, if you’d like. Under RA organization we should also fill RA Archivist and decide on RA rules for the term,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
Justice Soothsayer: symo, I’m not sure what you are looking for as a report for last term, but I’ll just mention that Jamie has already highlighted two….
Justice Soothsayer: items left undone from last term, the Monastery proposal and continuing discussions re Al Anadlus. I would also add that
Justice Soothsayer: we still have the Electoral Commission, though it did not garner much attention last term.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: as well as the Ethics comission (also little attended)
Justice Soothsayer: We also have continuing concerns over vacancy rates and redevelopment of CN and sales in LA.
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, Jamie, Ethics Commission too. Makes me wonder about effectiveness of the Commission model of government, but we’ll save that for another time.
Symo Kurka: Ok Thank you Justice
Symo Kurka: Any other items or proposals before we adjourn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: vote on the deputy LRA first?
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll also move to adopt last terms RA rules for this term, unless you would like to make that the first item of business next time.
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Justice of course
Symo Kurka: Justice please where can i read about it?
Cindy Ecksol thinks it sounds like we should defer rules discussion to next week
Symo Kurka agrees with Cindy
Justice Soothsayer: the rules? looking for link in forums
Soro Dagostino: Move Postponment
Jamie Palisades: it;s in each meeting notice
Cindy Ecksol: second
Jamie Palisades: like this
Jamie Palisades: “The CDS Representative Assembly will meet on 1st February 2009 at 8:00 am SLT (US Pacific Daylight Time) = 17:00 CEU at the Praetorium in Colonia Nova. Yes this location si confirmed. The meeting is expected to last up to 1.30 hours. Please see the following link regarding applicable procedural rules, which constrain some of our agenda and speaking time-limit practices: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701”
Symo Kurka: ah ok
Symo Kurka: ok
Soro Dagostino: Motion is non-debateble
Justice Soothsayer: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701
Jamie Palisades: but yeah, give everyone a week, on that and deputy LR, woudl be my advice not to debate
Soro Dagostino: It is on the floor
Justice Soothsayer: OK with postponing rules and LRA pro temport to next week.
Symo Kurka: That would be kind for new members
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine too…
Cindy Ecksol: whoever put it there can withdraw
Symo Kurka: I move to adjourn guys
Justice Soothsayer: sounds like we have a consensus to table
Justice Soothsayer: But Symo, rules also require a period of open discussion.
Justice Soothsayer: Not that I have anything, but perhaps someone else does.
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Soro Dagostino: I am sorry, but there is a motion of precedence before the body.
Cindy Ecksol: who proposed the vote on rules? must be withdrawn…..
Soro Dagostino: It is a simple vote to postpone.
Justice Soothsayer: Cindy, I raised the rules issue and said it was OK to postpone to next time.
Cindy Ecksol: justice, you moved — please withdraw
Cindy Ecksol: ok
Cindy Ecksol: ok, soro?
Soro Dagostino: Yes.
Jamie Palisades smiles -the adjounement or the postponment? Ladie and gentlemen, the quickest way out here is EITHERr for justice to withdraw OR better for symo to ackowledgement that Soro’s priovilieged postposement motion passes with out objection
Justice Soothsayer: I then suggested Symo hold on his motion to adjourn until we have complied with the rules calling for a period of open discussion in case anyone else has anything to add.
Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
Jamie Palisades: then you have symo’s privileged adjounrment motion
Cindy Ecksol: justice has withdrawn
Symo Kurka: Justice has withdrawn, the discussion is postponed to next RA, we are moving to adjourn
Soro Dagostino: Yay!
Cindy Ecksol is waiting to see if anyone has any open discussion items
Justice Soothsayer: Not that anyone seems to be bursting with comments, I just thought it would be helpful to afford the chance.
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds the motion to adjourn
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Rose Springvale: would like to sneak in an annoucement to remember the ball today
Cindy Ecksol: yes!
Symo Kurka: and aye
Lilith Ivory smiles
Rose Springvale: totally out f order of course
Justice Soothsayer votes aye since Rose snuck in her announcement.
Cindy Ecksol: music, dance, and scintillating conversation….
Moon Adamant: oh, can i do an announcement after Rose?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye aye aye
Symo Kurka: Hmm justice you did not vote
Symo Kurka: ah ok
Rose Springvale: yes he did ol
Cindy Ecksol: don’t forget to wear your Pittsburgh Steelers clothing!
Rose Springvale: lag lag lag
Justice Soothsayer: “[9:50] Justice Soothsayer votes aye since Rose snuck in her announcement.”
Symo Kurka: THANK YOU ALL FOR THE PATIENCE
Moon Adamant: thank you Symo
Gwyneth Llewelyn: RA Meeting: February 08, 2009
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
d. Future RA schedule: tbd, polls on timing.
a. Request for economy monitoring advisors
a. Proposals, discussion and vote
a. Adoption, discussion, approval procedures and vote (9:45 to 9:55)
a. Rough schedule for approval and vote (9:55 to 10:05)
a. Open Discussion
a. List of actions and bills pending
b. Schedule proposals
Events pending
a. Items proposed by citizens (10.40 to 10.55)
b. Works closed and Adjournment (11:00)
Those present:
Symo Kurka is in the chair.08:38
Symo Kurka: messaggio di prova messaggio di prova08:51
Symo Kurka: Lol08:51
Symo Kurka: Hi Justice08:51
Symo Kurka: not from this RA..08:51
Symo Kurka: just to start gettin used to it08:51
Symo Kurka: and it will be SHARED08:51
Symo Kurka: so anybody who wants to make a presentation will be able to..
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.08:55
Symo Kurka: Tough job Justice….08:57
Justice Soothsayer: hi Lilith08:58
Symo Kurka: hello evrybody08:58
Symo Kurka: Hi lilith09:00
Symo Kurka: Thanks for coming Lilith…09:00
Symo Kurka: Hello Sonja09:01
Justice Soothsayer: hi Sonja09:01
Symo Kurka: Hello Ms Erato09:01
Justice Soothsayer: g’morning all
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.09:02
Symo Kurka: Not yet Sudane, just get used to the screen presence…09:03
Justice Soothsayer: not THOSE kinds of movies, Sudane09:03
Sonja Strom: hehe09:04
Sonja Strom: The kids 09:04
Sonja Strom: hehee09:06
Symo Kurka: All welcome on board, can we start?09:06
Symo Kurka: Friends, citizens, guests of the CDS09:06
Symo Kurka: Welcome to RA.09:07
Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.09:07
Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*09:07
Symo Kurka: Moon, Cindy, Soro, Pip…09:08
Lilith Ivory: hehe yw moon
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.09:08
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol today is really impossible… 09:08
Sonja Strom: Hi Timo!09:08
Symo Kurka: Some place on my left wing09:08
Lilith Ivory: np09:08
Lilith Ivory: hi Timo09:08
Sudane Erato: hi 09:09
Symo Kurka: Please evrybody touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Timo Gufler has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.09:09
Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, the recorder thinks I am you Symo.
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.09:09
Lilith Ivory: does the recorder tells me that I touched it?09:09
Symo Kurka: just a mom checking the recorder guys09:10
Timo Gufler: hi Solomon09:10
Moon Adamant: if you click twice, yes09:10
Cindy Ecksol: no, soro it’s NAME is notetaker 2.0.1 Symo 09:10
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No LIlith, although if you touch it twice, it gives an error…09:10
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha09:10
Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles09:10
Lilith Ivory: ah ok – I?m never sure if I managed it to touch it correctly09:10
Sonja Strom: lol me either09:10
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe indeed09:10
Cindy Ecksol: if you right-click and touch it will tell you that you signed in…09:11
Lilith Ivory: ah ok 09:11
Symo Kurka: Sorry guys touch agin the recorder please
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.
Lilith Ivory has indicated consent to be recorded.
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka: Ok
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka: Members of RA,
Symo Kurka: you can see today’s agenda in
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2325
Symo Kurka: and I ask you, is the proposed agenda acceptable?
Symo Kurka looks around
Cindy Ecksol: no objections here
Pip Torok: none here
Justice Soothsayer: ok here
Symo Kurka: Gwyn, Sonja’
Symo Kurka: *?
Symo Kurka: Friends, citizens,
Symo Kurka: anyone who wants to sign up to speak on any of the agenda items?
Sonja Strom: no objection to the agenda
Moon Adamant: i do, just in case
Patroklus Murakami: me too, just in case
Symo Kurka: Moon.. Pat.. anybody else?
Symo Kurka: d) About next RA timing,
Soro Dagostino: Point of order?
Symo Kurka: Soro?
Symo Kurka: …
Soro Dagostino: When you ask that we state that we want to speak to agenda matters?
Soro Dagostino: Do you mean we must now or hold our peace?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technically, RA members can talk on *any* agenda items; it’s just citizens that ought to register first …
Symo Kurka: point c) og ITEM I
Symo Kurka: adm stuff
Symo Kurka: lol ok rthanks Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: don’t mention it
Soro Dagostino: Sorry — I am just a newbie.
Symo Kurka: me too Soro…
Symo Kurka: About next RA timing, I asked Sonja to help me (and help you..)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww that’s fine, Soro, and you are NOT
Symo Kurka: monitoring your average sunday availabilities with a poll .
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, maybe it would help if we voted officially to re-adopt the last RA’s rules that govern such things as speaking order; of course, they are still in effect unless changed, I think.
Symo Kurka: If there is any result I ask sonja to share it with all RA AFTER this meeting.
Symo Kurka: they are still in effect ,
Symo Kurka: limiyed by wxperience,
Symo Kurka: *limited
Symo Kurka: and if you avoid interrupting it’s better
Symo Kurka: If there is not any result, or we did not get enough answers, we’ll repeat the poll in the next days, and in THE MEANWHILE next RA will take place on 15th february, same time as today.
Sonja Strom raises hand
Symo Kurka: Just to know Sonja, how many answers did you get?
Symo Kurka: yes Sonja..
Sonja Strom: Everybody has responded except you, Symo
Cindy Ecksol: lol!!!
Symo Kurka: LOL
Justice Soothsayer: lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl
Moon Adamant:
Sonja Strom: lol!
Symo Kurka: Great
Symo Kurka: thks
Pip Torok: hehe
Soro Dagostino: Heh!
Symo Kurka: we’ll talk about it at the end ok?
Sonja Strom: ok
ymo Kurka blushes
Moon Adamant:
Justice Soothsayer: can we talk about it now? not sure I can make it to the end.
Symo Kurka: The next item on our agenda is a quick slot i asked for me.
Symo Kurka: Justicde
Symo Kurka: please
Symo Kurka: you know very well that discussing on tinming here would keep us busy foe two hours
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, not to be hypertechnical, but this was the time on the agenda where we were suppposed to decide on the next meeting.
Symo Kurka: so my answer is NO
Symo Kurka: we’ll discuss it apart from RA
Justice Soothsayer: I’m OK with Feb 15th at 9 am, FWIW
Symo Kurka: The next item
Symo Kurka: Is
Symo Kurka: When we wonder
Symo Kurka: Should we open new sims? should we not?
Symo Kurka: I’ve read in programs and platforms much concern about the economic situation and request of prudence in developing new sims.
Symo Kurka: I obviously share concerns.
But
Symo Kurka: Concerns, and fears based on rumors are not in our style, are they.
Symo Kurka: We need more rationals to sustain our choices.
Symo Kurka: We need informations, data and comments both on SL economy and on CDS economy.
Symo Kurka: We need a permanent monitoring of trends, if we want to share decisions not based on fears or rumors but based on reasonable analysyis.
Symo Kurka: I personally feel a strong need for all that, and I therefore request our Treasurer
Symo Kurka: AND whoever wishes to help to:
Symo Kurka: – keep monthly track of economic and demographic trends data (SL and CDS)
Symo Kurka: – show a monthly brief report both in web and in world, during the first RA meeting of the month
Cindy Ecksol raises hand
Symo Kurka: Yes Cindy
Cindy Ecksol: I am not sure that I know what you mean by “economic trends”
Symo Kurka: and after Cindy, Sudane, for any comment
Symo Kurka: yes
Symo Kurka: will you explain Sudane please’
Sudane Erato: We are drafting a list of SL based and CDS based economic facts
Sudane Erato: like
Sudane Erato: how many new islands were formed
Sudane Erato: or how much land sells for
Sudane Erato: in particular…
Sudane Erato: how those numbers have changed from last month
Sudane Erato: the exact things we report on will probably evolve
Sudane Erato: as we discover which are useful and which are not
Solomon Mosely raises hand
Justice Soothsayer: Sudane, that’s a great idea. I’d also like to see data on our vacancy rates and delinquency rates.
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that
Sudane Erato: I’m debeloping the list with Symo
Sudane Erato: so… please feedback to him
Moon Adamant: brb
Symo Kurka: I would consent Solomon to intervene..
Symo Kurka:
Sudane Erato is functioning as lackey
Solomon Mosely: thanks symo,
Symo Kurka: Btw Justice you know the GIGO principle?
Solomon Mosely: i was going to ask if absorption rates were included in the data gathered
Symo Kurka: I’ll explain later, go on Sol
Symo Kurka: Lol
Symo Kurka: I see many volunteers around
Symo Kurka: Listen
Symo Kurka: The next step will be working together on the first draft edition of this “VIRTUAL ECONOMY MONTHLY OBS” to findout the most meaningful data available.
Sudane Erato: what is absorption rate?
Cindy Ecksol: what kind of volunteers are you looking for, symo?
Symo Kurka: You can define it later on
Solomon Mosely: how long ittakes land to sell
Symo Kurka: I mean
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, not sure what you mean about GIGO and request for info about CDS vacant land?
Symo Kurka: I’ll start with Sudane with a list of data AVAILABLE
Sudane Erato: yes… some data is very diff icult to collect
Symo Kurka: AVAILABLE and MEANINGFUL
Symo Kurka: and all volunteers can propose more figures
Symo Kurka: explaining what they do mean
Sonja Strom: Hi Arria
Symo Kurka: and which is the source
Arria Perreault: Hi Sonja
Arria Perreault: Hi everybody
Symo Kurka: Please evrybody touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Solomon Mosely has indicated consent to be recorded.
Patroklus Murakami has indicated consent to be recorded.
Symo Kurka: Is that clear?
Timo Gufler has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol: um….no, not really
Solomon Mosely nods
Symo Kurka: Cindy
Sonja Strom: lol
Sonja Strom: not to me either… but it’s ok
Cindy Ecksol: I think you are asking for volunteers to….imagine what numbers we might want?
Symo Kurka: when we discuss whether to buy or not a new sim
Symo Kurka: …
Arria Perreault: volunteers for what?
Cindy Ecksol: or maybe to collect nubers?
Sudane Erato: i think we will be a bit unclear at the beginning as we learn to evolve what works and what doesn’t
Symo Kurka: aah
Symo Kurka: we update on this to next RA meeting ok?
Cindy Ecksol: or…..what?
Moon Adamant: back
Sonja Strom: Hi Jamie
Symo Kurka: Ok we’ll see next RAwhat we managed to do. I move now
Jamie Palisades: My apologies, ladies & gentlemen. I am having some severe and distracting RL issues today, and can only stay a moment. Perhaps I can ask for my report to be moved?
Symo Kurka: to The next item on our agenda is
DEPUTY LRA NOMINATION
Justice Soothsayer: Symo & Sudane, perhaps in the interests of transparency we could have a forum thread asking folks for suggestions of data that could be reported periodically.
Symo Kurka: Yes Justice sure
Sudane Erato: Justice, that would be fine with me
Symo Kurka: we have no peoblems of transparency ion figures
Symo Kurka: Jamie it’s ok
Symo Kurka: I move to next point
Arria Perreault: the conception of a statistical system is not trivial
Symo Kurka: Comments on forums please
Arria Perreault: it need some skill
Symo Kurka: DEPUTY LRA NOMINATION
Symo Kurka looks around
Symo Kurka: Is there any procedure defined for the Deputy LRA nomination?
Sudane Erato: sorry… sim emergencies call
Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sudane:
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll nominate Cindy for the job.
Moon Adamant: er… ask for victims er volunteers?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice
Justice Soothsayer: If she will forgive me.
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Justice’s nomination, if Cindy’s willing.
Cindy Ecksol thinks that if she’s going to stay out of trouble she’d better stop answering IM’s
Symo Kurka: Cindy is again of SP faction
Symo Kurka: would not be ciorrect
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Cindy
Symo Kurka: *correct
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh actually, I think it would, Symo…
Symo Kurka: sorry Cin
Moon Adamant: CSDF doesn’t seem to object, though
Symo Kurka: ?
Justice Soothsayer: Gwyn did the job for 2 weeks last term even tho she was of the same faction as the LRA
Symo Kurka: i would propose
Symo Kurka: Sonja (because of the numbers of votes she collected)
Pip Torok: without a procedure for nomination nothings correct or incorrect
Symo Kurka: Sonja??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… i mean… the deputy LRA is a replacement of teh LRA when the LRA is not available… and it sort of makes sense to be someone aligned to the same politics & style, to keep things less ‘disruptive’
Sonja Strom: It makes sense for a Deputy LRA to be of the same party as the LRA.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, Sonja
Cindy Ecksol reluctantly agrees with sonja
Sonja Strom: Right
Symo Kurka: Lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I hope you agree to be nominated as well, Cindy
Symo Kurka: I’m in minority as far as I see
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Symo
Symo Kurka: ))
Moon Adamant: run Cindy run!
Symo Kurka: ok
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
Jamie Palisades: actually I’d think that , if factuion control is important to CDS, the deputy usually would be of the same faction .. . but this is for the RA to decide and .. obviously we have not discussed as a faction what Symo plans
Cindy Ecksol: yes, I accept the nomination
Symo Kurka: we set a motion
Symo Kurka: wait
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, I agree with you, yes
Symo Kurka: + we have to vote for you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We do, yes
Justice Soothsayer: I move that nominations be closed and Cindy elected by acclamation.
Symo Kurka: Votes aye in favour of Cindy as deputy LRA
Gwyneth Llewelyn votes aye too
Soro Dagostino: Second
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aaah Justice
Cindy Ecksol does her best to get out of the way of the stampede
Justice Soothsayer votes ye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that would be even more nicer
Soro Dagostino: Now its on the floor.
Pip Torok: aye
Justice Soothsayer: *aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Symo Kurka: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy’s allowed to vote too….
Cindy Ecksol: abstain
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
Justice Soothsayer notes for the record that the job is “LRA pro tempore”
Justice Soothsayer: Latin being required in the Praetorium from time to time
Jamie Palisades: ipso facto
Symo Kurka: pro tempore? means pro 6 months
Jamie Palisades: quid pro quo and all that
Cindy Ecksol makes a note to bone up on her latin in case she has to sit in for Symo
Pip Torok: (quod erat demonstrandum:)
Symo Kurka: alea iacta est
Moon Adamant: fortuna audaces juvat?
Jamie Palisades: and if I had the Latin for it I would say, in Latin, my apolgies for postponing my report and best wishes to you all
Symo Kurka: Now
Cindy Ecksol: vivat musica aeterna
Symo Kurka: The next item on our agenda was CHANCELLOR’s MONTHLY REPORT
Symo Kurka: And ok, we move it to next RA
Soro Dagostino: Jamie was unable to stay.
Symo Kurka: ..)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Too late…
Symo Kurka: FIFTH item
Symo Kurka sweats
Symo Kurka: GENERAL MASTER PLAN
Cindy Ecksol obligingly turns down the thermostat
Gwyneth Llewelyn shivers at that
Moon Adamant stands to attention
Symo Kurka: GENERAL MASTER PLAN
Symo Kurka: i’m glad i provoked some debate
Symo Kurka: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2329
Symo Kurka: Though i also realize i raised a huge amount of questions, doubts, and skepticism.
Gwyneth Llewelyn just smiles
Soro Dagostino: From your note in the forum, we are to look at the procedures?
Timo Gufler nods
Symo Kurka: Our goal should be to get the draft bill proposed on forums amended and fully shared by RA members, and therefore I will
Symo Kurka: 1) Propose to Gwyn to lead and draw a second draft of GMP bill?
Symo Kurka: 2) Ask for debate and voting on the following motion:
Symo Kurka: – Shall RA define procedures for GMP adoption, this meaning:
– Accepting GMP fundamentals (to be clearly defined) – Defining how/who makes it operational – How/who might propose specific updates to it – How/who might ask for a general Revision?
Symo Kurka: So 1) Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Gah… well, after reading the last 2 comments,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s much less consensual now that we need to have an OFFICIAL master Plan
Symo Kurka: I just want FEW things to be clear.
Cindy Ecksol: ack!
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soro & Jamie were actually quite thorough in explaining that the GMP is just “optional”, just “guidelines”, and might not need more than that
Symo Kurka: GMP cannot be a “recommendation” has to become a law, a SHARED view of our territorial development, with all needed flexibilities (and I think we got many flexibility opportiunities).
Cindy Ecksol: I’d say the real question is do we WANT it to be more?
Symo Kurka: BUT there has to be an official (and -repeat- shared) track of the way we want to develop our territory
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I see your point, Symo
Symo Kurka: This does not mean it is “written on stone”
Sonja Strom: I see no need for the RA to limit itself to the decisions of a Non-Governmental Organization.
Cindy Ecksol agrees with Sonja
Symo Kurka: BUT
Moon Adamant: technically, i agree with Symo
Symo Kurka: it does not either mean that it can be IGNORED by anybody who rules this community.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I read Jamie & Soro correctly (and please forgive me if you meant something different), the GMP is “as official as the Chancellor/RA/Guild decide to make it official” , and that is allegedly “more than enough”
Sonja Strom: The Guild is welcome to make recommendations, but it is not in the interest of the RA to limit itself.
Moon Adamant: well, it seems to me that the problem here is not the Guild
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, it isn’t
Cindy Ecksol: Symo, let me see ifi I undrstand what you are trying to accomplish here
Moon Adamant: but who effective?ly approves and empowers the GMP
Symo Kurka: Exactly
Moon Adamant: am i correct?
Justice Soothsayer: I think the idea is that the GMP is used as a tool by the RA in informing its decisions but does not have the force of law, and is therefore more flexible.
Cindy Ecksol thinks that moon got to it…
Sonja Strom: exactly, Justice, I agree with that view.
Cindy Ecksol is ok with that too
Moon Adamant: Justice, you are correct, in tjhe sense that the GMP is a ever-modifying document
Symo Kurka: So
Symo Kurka: guys
Cindy Ecksol: but Symo, is this what you had in mind?
Symo Kurka: let me say
Moon Adamant: everytime we build a new sim, the GMP is actualized
Arria Perreault: GMP should only give general lines for the expansion. It is not a plan to be implemented. We have experienced that SL can change very quickly. This strict GMP would be a barrier. And I think also that creativity in CDS comes from NGO and citizen.
Symo Kurka: if tomorrow morning
Symo Kurka: i decide as LRA or chancellor
Symo Kurka: that i want a sim with skyscarpers nect to AM it’s ok?
Moon Adamant: i would like to answer Arria next, please
Justice Soothsayer: No, no, no, the final power rests with the RA.
Symo Kurka: Exactly Justice
Justice Soothsayer: Not the LRA or Chancellor. Jamie’s comments make thatquite clear.
Cindy Ecksol raises a hand
Symo Kurka: If I manage to get the simple majority
Symo Kurka: that we WANT a skyscarpers sim next to AM it’s ok then?
Symo Kurka: simple majority
Cindy Ecksol is still holding up her hand
Cindy Ecksol is still holding up her hand
Symo Kurka: Cindy pleas your turn
Soro Dagostino: Soro/raises hand
Moon Adamant: and me next?
Moon Adamant:
Cindy Ecksol: symo, what exactly do you want to accomplish that is NOT already in the law?
Justice Soothsayer: In that case, yes, a simple majority would do. Though there might be some constitutional issues that the SC would use to slow things down a bit.
Justice Soothsayer hushes
Symo Kurka: Ok Cindy, Soro, then Moon
Cindy Ecksol: In other words, what law do you want to change or amend?
Patroklus Murakami raises a hand
Cindy Ecksol: or what new law do you want to put in place?
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Cindy question and remains silent
Symo Kurka: Soro next
Soro Dagostino: I beleive the RA makes the final decision.
Cindy Ecksol wonders if she gets an answer first….
Soro Dagostino: It may take suggestions from the NGO.
Soro Dagostino: And other comments at the same time.
Soro Dagostino: And decide — heh! If it can
Cindy Ecksol: Symo…my point is that we already have a law that instructs the RA to consider the GMP
Symo Kurka: Moon?
Soro Dagostino: “consider.”
Moon Adamant: ok, please bear with me for a bit
Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn just dug it out for me: NL 8-4: “The New Guild shall also create, update and maintain a CDS master plan under which future expansions in land area and themes shall occur.”
Moon Adamant: first of all, you must realize that the GMP is a plan done by the New Guild at the request of teh CDS
Moon Adamant: second, you must understand that the GMP is in constant actualization and reviewal, and that it is a plan for territorial organization at its minimal level
Moon Adamant: it just defines: themes, densities, topography, connections, so i fail to see in which way it restrains creativity
Moon Adamant: and in thrid place, i would like to inform this RA that the GMP is at this moment in revision, and the first results for discussion will be available next week. Thank you.
Symo Kurka: Patroklus…
Symo Kurka: Pat?
Symo Kurka: Mr Murkami wished to talk…
Symo Kurka: In the meanwhile I remind you
Symo Kurka: RA can IGNORE Guilds recommendations. but cannot ignore its own laws.
Moon Adamant: indeed
Justice Soothsayer: RA can amend its own laws.
Patroklus Murakami: sorry was afk
Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Pat )
Symo Kurka: GMP is an idiot thing if it REMAINS a guild recommendation
Symo Kurka: just to say at LL exhibitions we are clever
Patroklus Murakami: i understand the desire to make the GMP something more than just guidance
Symo Kurka: GMP has to be discussed debated shared
Patroklus Murakami: i think it needs to be more than just guidance
Symo Kurka: go on Pat
Timo Gufler raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: we need to have a plan and provide predctability
Arria Perreault: it is already discussed, shared
Patroklus Murakami: but we also need flexibility and must not tie the hands of future RAs
Patroklus Murakami: for example, if we welcome AA into the CDS we will have a much bigger community
Patroklus Murakami: that might elect an RA with different priorities
Patroklus Murakami: so we need to have a plan, but be prepared to change it when needed
Patroklus Murakami: that’s all i really wanted to say
Symo Kurka: Great, pat
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bravo, Pat!
Symo Kurka: i share your view
Symo Kurka: which means in other terms
Symo Kurka: that the “vision” of our territorial development must be shared
Symo Kurka: +widely shared
Symo Kurka: and cannot be just in the hands of THREE citixens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: three?
Symo Kurka: +whxch is the simple majorityn of RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah!
Symo Kurka: Timo
Symo Kurka: please
Soro Dagostino: raises hand
Timo Gufler: Just one question: should we give more time for the public discussion about the proposed act? There have been only couple of days for it…
Symo Kurka: and Soro afterwards
Symo Kurka: Yes sure Timo
Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* too
Symo Kurka: we won’t skip discussion
Cindy Ecksol raises hand ALSO!!!!
Symo Kurka: Lol
Symo Kurka: Soro, Gwyn, Cindy
Symo Kurka: Soro
Soro Dagostino: The simple majority is allowed by our law.
Soro Dagostino: It is the body to decide.
Symo Kurka: Done? next..
Symo Kurka: Gwyn??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would just like to remove the intention, expressed on the forums,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: that there should be a “shorter” bill
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. one empowering the GMP to become ‘law’
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That was not my purpose ? but to be clear, I withdraw it
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Like many others, I understand Symo’s concern that the GMP becomes “a worthless document”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: which nobody here really wants to happen
Symo Kurka: .. as actually GMP IS
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and as a RA member, I pledge to respect the document in itself as well as I can, and to defend its use, adoption, and continuing discussion with the whole citizens
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think it is a worthless document +at all+
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I’m also not 100% sure that “making it law” is the right approach; much less making it *a part of the COnstitution*
Symo Kurka: Has evrybody forgotten NUcare??
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: “People come and go, CDS remains”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, that’s all, thank you
Sonja Strom: Symo, what about NuCARE?
Symo Kurka: exactly Gwyn
Cindy Ecksol smiles
Patroklus Murakami: LOL! how could we forget?
Symo Kurka: well i quoted Nucare
Symo Kurka: just to mean how easy it CAN be to have a mad majority in here
Symo Kurka: anyway
Sonja Strom: Sorry, I still don’t understand what you mean about NuCARE, Symo
Patroklus Murakami coughs “NuCARE and…”
Symo Kurka: Cindy’s turn
Sonja Strom: That a majority of RA members can be wrong?
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Cindy Ecksol: ok…
Symo Kurka: Sonja
Cindy Ecksol waits for symo
Symo Kurka: actually THREE people can decide to open a skyscarpers sim nect to AM
Symo Kurka: Cindy
Symo Kurka: your turn
Soro Dagostino: that’s why our terms are only 6 months long?
Justice Soothsayer raises hand
Symo Kurka: lol
Cindy Ecksol: symo, i think that the problem is that we haven’t reviewed properly the laws that are in place
Symo Kurka: Cindy??
Sonja Strom: NuCARE never had a majority in the RA, did it?
Cindy Ecksol: gwyn and I would like to take on a review of what we have
Cindy Ecksol: and present to RA next week our findings….
Cindy Ecksol: will explain what is REQUIRED now…and what is not.
Cindy Ecksol: and hopefully clarify anything that is needed
Symo Kurka: That’s perfect Cindy, Gwyn, I thank you
Cindy Ecksol: perhaps even suggest a bill that will cover those needs
Symo Kurka: and i would also suggest you to focus on what can be NEEDED from GMP
Symo Kurka: not necessairily the whole of it
Symo Kurka: but what is NEEDED
Symo Kurka: for a safer territorial government
Symo Kurka: Ok
Soro Dagostino: raises hand
Symo Kurka: So for now we do not vote anything
Symo Kurka: ….Soro?
Soro Dagostino: Move to postpone
Symo Kurka: Yes Soro exactly
Cindy Ecksol: second
Symo Kurka: second
Justice Soothsayer: second
Cindy Ecksol:
Symo Kurka: Waiting for Cindy-Gwyn coommission
Symo Kurka: reporting to next RA
Soro Dagostino: Call the question — non-debatable.
Cindy Ecksol whspers to Symo “All in favor….”
Symo Kurka: and maybe preapring a new draft bill
Symo Kurka: We’re voting?
Sonja Strom: One thing I would like to say is, the basic assumption of democracy is that all citizens can be involved in how decisions are reached, and the final decisions come from a majority view.
Cindy Ecksol: yes, symo — motion on the floor to postpone the discussion
Soro Dagostino: TY
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh, sure, postpone
Symo Kurka: We vote to postpone
Cindy Ecksol: no…YOU vote to postpone.
Cindy Ecksol: you musut ask US to vote too
Soro Dagostino: Ask for the vote.
Symo Kurka: Vote please not joke
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Sonja Strom votes aye
Pip Torok: aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Justice Soothsayer votes aye to postpone this topic
Symo Kurka: and aye
Symo Kurka: recommending Cindy-Gwyn report
Symo Kurka: Next Item
Symo Kurka: in agenda
Soro Dagostino: Move to postpone.
Symo Kurka: VI. COOPERATION WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye (with chat lag)
Symo Kurka: I particularly ask CDSF members to report on this item
Justice Soothsayer raises hand to address “Cooperation with other Communities”
Symo Kurka: Justice
Symo Kurka: )
Justice Soothsayer: Thanks Symo
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm
Justice Soothsayer: The most pressing of these “other communitieis” is AA
Justice Soothsayer: Last week in his confirmation hearing Jamie laid out one possible roadmap for incorporating AA
Justice Soothsayer: “Jamie Palisades: it works in my view exactly like a native sim additionb
Jamie Palisades: some financial feasibility details must be developed and brought to RA
Jamie Palisades: that’s my jon
Jamie Palisades: job – assume you reappoint me to it
Jamie Palisades: and the RA must approve maps and land acqusitions and covenants
Jamie Palisades: as lways
Jamie Palisades: abasically, a theme and L$ feasibility decision”
Justice Soothsayer: Now, there may be other road maps that could also be used.
Justice Soothsayer: But I support the one that Jamie suggested as our guide for now, keeping in mind that we might consult different maps from time to time.
Justice Soothsayer: Or even change destinations
Justice Soothsayer: Still, the journey of a thousand miles beings with the first step, and the steps Jamie suggested make sense to me.
Justice Soothsayer: *begins
Justice Soothsayer: Done
Symo Kurka: Any other RA member wants to speak about this
Symo Kurka: So do I assume
Symo Kurka: that Justice and Jamie are “project leaders” for the AA item?
Justice Soothsayer: ah, no, I think Jamie is the project leader.
Symo Kurka: )
Symo Kurka: yes Justice but
Symo Kurka: morally
Symo Kurka: COOPERATION WITH OTHER COMMUNITIES belongs to CDSF too…
Symo Kurka: if i’m not wrong
Cindy Ecksol: symo, tha tmay be so….but the AA project is for Jamie to bring to the floor
ustice Soothsayer: belongs to all of us, I think. But the initiative ought to come from discussions thru the Chancellor.
Soro Dagostino: raises hand . .
Pip Torok: but wont Jamie be wearing a CDS hat as Chancellor + project leader?
Cindy Ecksol agrees with pip
Symo Kurka: ..Soro
Symo Kurka: Soro?’
Soro Dagostino: I just think we ought to wait until Jamie is here.
Symo Kurka: ok
Symo Kurka: but Jamie
Symo Kurka: if tomorrow you read transcription )
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would agree too… because from our point of view, the CSDF does indeed agree in general with the whole concept… but we need to understand the full concept
Symo Kurka: we want a sharp report on the AA item
Pip Torok: imo the chancellor is in the best position to represent us vivs a vis AA
Symo Kurka: we ALL agree then, sonja??
Sonja Strom: Agreed, yes.
Symo Kurka: we move to postpone
Soro Dagostino: I did.
Symo Kurka: or better
Symo Kurka: to replay
Cindy Ecksol: second
Soro Dagostino: Call the question
Symo Kurka: WPlease vote for asking Chancellor a report on the AA Item
Symo Kurka: defining
Cindy Ecksol: no…that was not the motion
Soro Dagostino: Non-debatable.
Symo Kurka: status and next steps
Cindy Ecksol: the motion is to postpone discussion on this agenda item
Cindy Ecksol: “cooperation”
Cindy Ecksol: need to vote on that first, symo
Cindy Ecksol: then can have another motion….
Symo Kurka: Postponing COOPERATION doesn’t mean much to me
Symo Kurka: ok
Soro Dagostino: The agenda item.
Symo Kurka: uh
Symo Kurka: Formals
Cindy Ecksol: it is an agenda item…you introduced it, must postpone it if we are not continuing
Symo Kurka: 1) who votes aye for postponing COOPERATION item
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Soro Dagostino: Aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Aye
Cindy Ecksol: do we have another motion to ask jamie to bring forward an AA proposal?
Justice Soothsayer: one avatar, one vote, Cindy.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Justice Soothsayer: JAmie’s report is already postponed to next time
Symo Kurka: aye…. 2) who votes for asking Chancellor a report on AA item status and next steps
Cindy Ecksol: no…that is his status report on CDS
Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) aye as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, Justice, Cindy is right ? BESIDES the usual report, do a SPECIAL report on AA.
Cindy Ecksol: we don’t want a report on AA status: we want a proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry ? proposal
Symo Kurka: do we HAVE a proposal??
Justice Soothsayer: Agreed.
Cindy Ecksol: I move that we request that the Chancellor present a proposal to RA regarding merger with AA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t know, Symo!
Justice Soothsayer: second
Soro Dagostino: second
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would certainly second Cindy’s motion ? THEN we will have a proposal
Symo Kurka: lol so we vote for something we don’t know if it wexists?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No ? we vote to have the Chancellor MAKE a proposal
Justice Soothsayer is not sure that Jamie can have a proposal for us for next week, but sometime soon
Symo Kurka: So
Cindy Ecksol: symo, if it does not exist, Jamie will tell us that….or he will specifically explain why it is not time to make a proposal
Cindy Ecksol: we can always postpone past next week
Symo Kurka: i we are not sure i thgink we would appreciate at least an update
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s true, so I suggest the amendment: “we request that the Chancellor present a proposal to RA regarding merger with AA *as soon as the Chancellor is able to do so*” (or we could add a limit: “within a month”?)
Cindy Ecksol: “update” is too wishy-washy….proposal is what we want
Cindy Ecksol: I would accept an amendment to my motion “within 30 days”
Soro Dagostino: Second accepts.
Symo Kurka: I accept Gwyn’s formula and Cindy’s amendm
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, within 30 days
Soro Dagostino: Call the question.
Symo Kurka: we request that the Chancellor present a proposal to RA regarding merger with AA within 30 days
Cindy Ecksol: motion on the floor is now: RA requests that within 30 days the Chancellor present a proposal regarding merger with AA
Symo Kurka: Vote aye or nay
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Justice Soothsayer votes Aye
Soro Dagostino: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Symo Kurka: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh aye
Symo Kurka: i vote aye as well in meanwhile
Symo Kurka: ok
Pip Torok: aye
Symo Kurka: We move to ITEM VIII
Symo Kurka: CULTURE ENTERTAINMENT, SPORTS
Symo Kurka: But Ms Springvale is not here
Justice Soothsayer: Econ development? VII?
Symo Kurka: Sorry justice
Symo Kurka: VII. CDS ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT
Sonja Strom: About item VIII, maybe we could allow a dance club somewhere in the CDS.
Symo Kurka: Is anybody able to sum up a list of actions and bills pending?
Symo Kurka:
Symo Kurka: I’m personally in favour Sonja
Cindy Ecksol thinks that is the LRA’s job….
Soro Dagostino: raises hand.
Symo Kurka: Justice is there any bill PENDING on CDS economic development?
Justice Soothsayer: There aren’t any bills pending from last term, though JAmie did say he would like to propose allowing shortterm commercial rentals, I think. No legislation has been introduced.
Symo Kurka: Soro
Soro Dagostino: Thank you Justice
Soro Dagostino: That was my comment.
Symo Kurka: Thanks justice
Symo Kurka: What is clear to me
Justice Soothsayer: Also, we have the skeleton of a Chamber of Commerce but no one has moved forward to form one with an RA-approved charter.
Symo Kurka: it’s TREMENDOUSLY clear
Symo Kurka: we NEED ministers
Symo Kurka: either named from RA or from Chancellor
Symo Kurka: but i RAISE this
Cindy Ecksol considers her prayer skills insuffcient for a ministerial job
Sonja Strom wonders if a state-directed Chamber of Commerce is a really good idea
Symo Kurka: there is NO ONE here
Soro Dagostino: My aliens won’t accept that kind of call.
Solomon Mosely raises hand
Symo Kurka: there is NO oNE here responsible for CDS economic development
Symo Kurka: Solomon
Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (after Sol)
Symo Kurka: and after Sol, Gwyn
Soro Dagostino: raises hand
Symo Kurka: Solomon go on
Solomon Mosely: would this chamber of commerce be responsible for economic development like the guild is for physical development?
Symo Kurka: Gwyn?
Solomon Mosely: i think its role has been the debate
Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh… just to clarify, a question….
Gwyneth Llewelyn: What exactly is meant with “responsible”?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry if the question is obvious.
Solomon Mosely: function i guess
Symo Kurka: Yw Gwyn
Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have people who are responsible for ASPECTS of the finances
Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. Treasurer
Symo Kurka: exactly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we also have people who are responsible for approving a budget, e.g. RA
Symo Kurka: what i frankly do not like
Patroklus Murakami raises hand
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and for introducing a budget, e.g. Chancellor
Symo Kurka: great
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and for managing it…in some areas…. PIO for promotion, New Guild for public works…
Symo Kurka: is not having a “minister” for key matters
Gwyneth Llewelyn: so mmmh the question is basically: what do you think we need more?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ty.
Symo Kurka: exactly Gwyn
Symo Kurka: I think economic development of CDS and diversifyin revenues is a strategic matter
Moon Adamant: i must go now, thanks everyone
Symo Kurka: and needs somebody dedicated…
Symo Kurka: Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: ty symo
Patroklus Murakami: well, if feel i bear some measure of blame here
Patroklus Murakami: i started the CDS Traders Association a long time ago, but then was elected LRA and didn’t have time to follow thru
Patroklus Murakami: so take what i say with a pinch of salt
Arria Perreault raises hands
Patroklus Murakami: do as i say, not as i do!
Patroklus Murakami: i woudl hope that any chamber of commerce would arise from the people involved
Patroklus Murakami: rather than by state direction
Patroklus Murakami: there’s somethign about an RA -sponsored CoC that just feels too corporatis to me
Patroklus Murakami: that said, i do think it woudl be good to have an Economics Minister
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Patroklus Murakami: or at least an RA member responsible for thinking about legislation in this area
Arria Perreault:
Patroklus Murakami: Minister is perhaps the wrong word
Symo Kurka: One question Pat
Patroklus Murakami: becasue that feels more ‘executive’
Arria Perreault: (and a culture Ministers)
Patroklus Murakami: economics coordinator perhaps?
Patroklus Murakami: or commissioner?
Patroklus Murakami: anyway, my 2L$
Patroklus Murakami:
Symo Kurka: [10:50] Patroklus Murakami: becasue that feels more ‘executive’
Symo Kurka: what is not clear to me
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It *could* be an official role of the Executive, of course….
Symo Kurka: if it would be better in executive branch or in RA
Patroklus Murakami: it could gwyn
Patroklus Murakami: and maybe there’s a better case for Ministers being in the Exec branch
Patroklus Murakami: as you know, in the UK we have a weird system
Patroklus Murakami: so Ministers sit in the legislature
Cindy Ecksol thinks she sees the sense in ministers being on the chancellor’s staff
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ve heard both suggestions (ie. part of the Exec; part of the RA) being vented before… but no concrete suggestions (i.e. no bills presented) I think
Arria Perreault would like to speak
Symo Kurka: /thinks Gwyn is volunteering again????
Justice Soothsayer: we also had a commerce commission as well
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Symo: no way! lol
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Justice
Symo Kurka b blinks to Gwyn
Symo Kurka: Arria’s turn
Arria Perreault: thank you
Arria Perreault: I think the first thing to do in the economic development in CDS is to know better what is the SL economy
Arria Perreault: you have probably noticed that the former SLexchange and Onrez were bought by LL
Arria Perreault: and that it will be integrated in SL
Arria Perreault: the existence of a Web market and a general SL market has consequences to our own market
Arria Perreault: what happens with our small shop?
Arria Perreault: is it better to sell through a general platform or in a in-world shop
Arria Perreault: I have also told several times that SL has a long tail market
Arria Perreault: this means for us “niche market”
Symo Kurka: Please Arria…time…
Soro Dagostino: brb
Arria Perreault: what can we do to development niche markets here
Arria Perreault: I am done
Symo Kurka: Ok thank you
Symo Kurka: getting back to minister / or cohordinator
Symo Kurka: I would love to see a proposal for next RA
Symo Kurka: OR
Symo Kurka: in forums
Symo Kurka: Can I ask Patroklus
Symo Kurka: to open a thread in Forum on this item?
Patroklus Murakami: sure, np
Symo Kurka: Ok guys
Symo Kurka: I’m very sorry for my inexperience but got late again
Symo Kurka: and i propose we adjourn
Soro Dagostino: so move
Justice Soothsayer: second
Symo Kurka: Who votes aye to adjourn’
Soro Dagostino: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Justice Soothsayer: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Symo Kurka: Thank you all for your patience
Cindy Ecksol: aye
Justice Soothsayer: Good discussions this week
Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody for being here
Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, it was interesting!
Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
Pip Torok: (and civilised!:)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Cindy
The meeting closed at 11:1 Linden time.RA Meeting: February 15, 2009
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Dreams’ Prayer.
c. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
d. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
e. Future RA schedule: Sunday 1st March, 9:00 AM SLT
a. Report
b. Questions and Answers
a. Open discussion
a. Open discussion
a. Open discussion
b. Works closed and Adjournment (10:00)
1. As i do not have at the moment bills pending for approval nor amendments we’ll invest our times in open discussions on ITEMS III, IV, V
2. If i receive bills’ proposals or new agenda items before saturday 9:00 AM SLT i will update this agenda
3. In open discussions thinking positive will be highly appreciated
Those present:
Symo Kurka is in the chair.09:00
Symo Kurka: Hello Cindy09:00
Symo Kurka: Hello Soro
Justice Soothsayer has indicated consent to be recorded.09:02
Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Rose Springvale has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.
Sudane Erato has indicated consent to be recorded.09:03
Rose Springvale: afk for a moment09:03
Soro Dagostino: Hello Sudane09:03
Sudane Erato: hi 09:03
Symo Kurka: Btw i saw CN corner a few minutes ago..09:03
Soro Dagostino: brb — coffee.09:03
Cindy Ecksol: cute new hair, Sudane09:04
Symo Kurka: great job09:04
Sudane Erato: thx Cindy 09:04
Justice Soothsayer: It was a nice party there09:04
Symo Kurka: rasta girl09:04
Sudane Erato: )09:05
Symo Kurka: welcome sonja09:05
Sudane Erato: hi 09:05
Soro Dagostino: Hi Sonja09:05
Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.09:06
Sudane Erato: Sonja is trying to find the softest seat 09:06
Sonja Strom: 09:06
Pip Torok: btw rose thanks for the prezzie09:06
Sonja Strom: trying them all09:06
Sudane Erato: hehe09:07
Cindy Ecksol wonders if sonja is testing political positions….09:07
Symo Kurka: Ok I see Solomon approaching09:08
Symo Kurka: Welcome Solomon. Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Solomon Mosely has indicated consent to be recorded.09:08
Solomon Mosely: hi syom , hello everybody09:08
Symo Kurka: I think we can start …09:08
Sudane Erato: hi 09:09
Solomon Mosely: \hello sudane09:09
Soro Dagostino: Hello Sol.09:09
Sudane Erato: hi 09:09
Symo Kurka: Reps and Citizens who wish please do stand up for the prayer please09:09
Solomon Mosely: …soro09:09
Cindy Ecksol: ?09:09
Sonja Strom: Prayer?09:10
Justice Soothsayer: Huh?09:10
Symo Kurka: Oh Father who art in Heaven09:10
Rose Springvale: back09:10
Soro Dagostino: I don’t see my aliens here.09:10
Solomon Mosely: i live in unceasing prayer09:10
Symo Kurka: Give us this Day our daily Dream09:10
Symo Kurka: Help us give a Shape to our Virtual Destiny09:10
Symo Kurka: Let our Citizens live in Harmony09:10
Symo Kurka: And help us find the Right Balance09:10
Symo Kurka: Among our Multiple Lifes09:10
Symo Kurka: And Lead us not into Destruction09:10
Symo Kurka: But Deliver us from Evil and Psychotics09:10
Symo Kurka: Amen09:11
Symo Kurka: thank you all09:11
Symo Kurka: now we can start09:11
Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.09:11
Symo Kurka: I have two updates to propose for agenda. 1) a short presentation on the Monthly Economic Observatory, and 2) Justice “RULES OF PROCEDURE, as in viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701 –
09:12
Symo Kurka: Reps,I ask you, is the proposed agenda acceptable with the update proposals??09:12
Justice Soothsayer: OK with me09:12
Sonja Strom: I’m ok with it09:12
Symo Kurka: cindy?09:13
Symo Kurka: soro?09:13
Symo Kurka: Ok i assume they either agree or crashed09:13
Cindy Ecksol: ok09:13
Cindy Ecksol: sorry…09:13
Symo Kurka: Citizens,
anyone who wants to sign up to speak on any of the agenda items?09:14
Soro Dagostino: Reading rules . . . ok09:14
Symo Kurka: And… 1) a short presentation on the Monthly Economic Observatory09:15
Symo Kurka: Look at the screen please09:15
Symo Kurka: ah09:15
Symo Kurka: and have in mind that who ever has presentations can use it in the future09:15
Symo Kurka: i’ll show you 4 slides + a samll comment from Su?dane09:15
Cindy Ecksol sees screen slow to rez…..09:16
Symo Kurka: We decided to start monitoring SL and CDS economy09:16
Symo Kurka: to have more data to decide if it’s the right moment to invest09:16
Symo Kurka: SL economic trends09:16
Symo Kurka: and CDS economic trends09:16
Symo Kurka: on a monthly data09:17
Symo Kurka: This is what is available from LL statistics09:17
Symo Kurka: Residents with land for sale09:17
Symo Kurka: Parcels for sale09:17
Symo Kurka: Total sold by residents09:18
Symo Kurka: Average price per SQM of land sold09:18
Symo Kurka: Users logged in09:18
Cindy Ecksol waiting for screen rez….did not see last slide09:18
Symo Kurka: This is an example of how data will appear09:19
Sudane Erato: that slide was a mistake 09:19
Symo Kurka: Cindy i pass you the slides ok?09:19
Justice Soothsayer: brb09:19
Symo Kurka: Ok sudane it’s just a sample to say09:19
Cindy Ecksol: thank you symo….I am probably not the only one having th eprobelm, so please go a bit slower09:19
Symo Kurka: ok09:20
Soro Dagostino: Raises hand09:20
Symo Kurka: Now you got the four slides in the box here09:20
Symo Kurka: Yes Soro?09:21
Soro Dagostino: Econ Trends,09:21
Soro Dagostino: The stat of 100% seems wrong.09:21
Symo Kurka: well09:21
Soro Dagostino: 100% of what?09:21
Symo Kurka: we can have a 100 start based09:21
Cindy Ecksol: 09:21
Sudane Erato: yes, there should be no number on that row09:21
Symo Kurka: 6160 = 10009:21
Symo Kurka: oh09:21
Symo Kurka: guys09:22
Soro Dagostino: Understand.09:22
Symo Kurka: it works as a START = 10009:22
Cindy Ecksol: and then the 99% should be -1%09:22
Sudane Erato: since the number is the % of the row above it09:22
Symo Kurka: aah09:22
Symo Kurka: it’s the SAME09:22
Symo Kurka: but09:22
Soro Dagostino: 9-1-2009 is the base number.09:22
Symo Kurka: yes soro09:22
Soro Dagostino: TY09:22
Symo Kurka: which helps having a general perspective view of the trend09:22
Sudane Erato: we have no immediate source for prior months09:22
Symo Kurka: rather than % on previous month09:22
Sudane Erato: yes09:23
Sudane Erato: so we have to start here09:23
Symo Kurka: ok09:23
Solomon Mosely: raises hand09:23
Symo Kurka: last slide and then comments from sudane
Cindy Ecksol: so Symo, far right column is intended to be an index?09:23
Symo Kurka: This is what we’ll try to get from our own data..09:23
Symo Kurka: Yes Cindy09:23
Symo Kurka: an index based on start = 10009:24
Cindy Ecksol: thank you — probably best to re-label tha tcolumn then. I was confused09:24
Symo Kurka: ok i suggest comments from Sudane, then questions and answers09:24
Sudane Erato: ok09:24
Sudane Erato: well… we assembled the listed data items09:24
Sudane Erato: because they were what we found available09:25
Sudane Erato: althou… not all the CDS data items are actually available09:25
Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm09:25
Sudane Erato: however… if there are suggestions for additional data items..09:25
Sudane Erato: which people think may be useful09:25
Sudane Erato: please bring them to our attanetion… along with the sources09:25
Soro Dagostino: raises hand09:26
Sudane Erato: yes?09:26
Soro Dagostino: Nonpaying parcels?09:26
Soro Dagostino: #09:26
Sudane Erato: hmmm… ok09:26
Symo Kurka: Well09:26
Sudane Erato: that might be useful for management09:26
Symo Kurka: we have the general data of tier payed09:27
Sudane Erato: yes… total revenue we have listed09:27
Symo Kurka: we should not get too much in detail09:27
Justice Soothsayer: Also, maybe a snapshot of parcels for sale or in govt hands; I know we can get for sale data from the map, but at some point the yellow map will be turned off.09:27
Sudane Erato: Soro, i think we should track that for other purposes…09:27
Sudane Erato: Justice..09:27
Soro Dagostino: I think it a valuable tool.09:27
Sudane Erato: that is a data that we’d like to get09:28
Sudane Erato: number os parcels for sale09:28
Sudane Erato: but… its very hard to collect09:28
Symo Kurka: This data should help us to answer the question: “Is it a good moment to buy a new Sim?”09:28
Justice Soothsayer: I see 5 LA parcels today, and 4 CN parcels on the yellow map.09:28
Sudane Erato: yes09:28
Justice Soothsayer: Not counting the repossessed CN plots being redeveloped09:29
Justice Soothsayer: Oh, and 1 in AM.09:29
Soro Dagostino: How many are in that class?09:29
Sudane Erato: at this moment we can count… but i feel its only useful if we know how many went on sale during the month09:29
Justice Soothsayer: Right, that’s why we need a snapshot, so when we run the data points together we can see trends09:29
Pip Torok: agree09:29
Sudane Erato: ok…09:30
Sonja Strom: Maybe there could just be one day each month, as a snapshot.09:30
Sudane Erato: but many parcels might have been bought and sold during the month09:30
Sudane Erato: and we wouild not lnow that09:30
Pip Torok: the same day relative to months end of course!09:30
Sudane Erato: also… i should mention09:31
Sudane Erato: that SIM traffic data… is not really the name09:31
Sonja Strom: Yes Pip, it could be the last day of each month for example.09:31
Sudane Erato: since “traffic” has a particular meaning in SL
Sudane Erato: we want to count the number of unique visitors each month09:32
Sonja Strom: I have an overall question.09:32
Symo Kurka: Ok, guys…09:32
Cindy Ecksol: how can you do that Sudane?09:32
Symo Kurka: Yes Sonja09:32
Sudane Erato: hopefully with a fixed up visitir counter09:32
Sonja Strom: Is this an enjoyable thing for us to do?09:32
Sudane Erato: which references a citizen list09:33
Sonja Strom: If we want to do it, it should be set up so nobody has to keep putting a lot of work into it,09:33
Sudane Erato: hehe09:33
Sonja Strom: unless they find that fun.09:33
Sonja Strom: For example, exactly as Sudane said,09:33
Sudane Erato: i think we want to do it cause the infomation is incredibly valuable09:33
Solomon Mosely: agreed09:33
Symo Kurka: Sure we cannot get MAD collecting data that are hard to collect09:33
Sudane Erato: and we will find a way to get it best we can09:34
Sonja Strom: we could have an automatic visitor counter reference a citizen’s list, and things like that.09:34
Soro Dagostino: Agreed09:34
Sudane Erato: yes09:34
Symo Kurka: Ok09:34
Symo Kurka: are we finished?09:34
Sudane Erato: thats all from me i think09:35
Sonja Strom: My concern is if we start doing things that are complex and not enjoyable for us, then that would take away from the vitality of our community.09:35
Symo Kurka: Nothing to approve, nothing to vote ..09:35
Sonja Strom: It would not be worth it.09:35
Pip Torok: quite so …09:35
Symo Kurka: Well Sonja09:35
Symo Kurka: we’ll have to keep it simple09:35
Sudane Erato: Sonja, I think that experience has shown in the CDS that no one will do what they don’t want to do09:35
Sonja Strom: Right… lol.09:35
Cindy Ecksol smiles09:35
Sudane Erato: 09:36
Sonja Strom: And, well, I would say rightly so!09:36
Sudane Erato: i actually quite agree09:36
Symo Kurka: Can we proceed to Justice RULES OF PROCEDURE?09:37
Sonja Strom: YES09:37
Sonja Strom: lol09:37
Sudane Erato: sorry… must run09:37
Justice Soothsayer: Ithas been pointed out that it is a little confusing that we are actually governed by two separate sets of rules.09:37
Sonja Strom: Thanks Sudane!09:37
Symo Kurka: Thank you Sudane09:37
Symo Kurka: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=170109:37
Soro Dagostino: Move approval of adoption of former rules explained by Jamie09:37
Justice Soothsayer: The first set was adoped some time in the past. the 2nd set in 2008.09:38
Justice Soothsayer: I’ve tried to prepare a draft that incorporates both, for the sake of some clarity.09:38
Justice Soothsayer: viewtopic.php?f=7&p=12973#p1297309:39
Sonja Strom: hi Gwyn 09:39
Justice Soothsayer: So I would ask that we officially adopt the “reconciled” draft.09:39
Justice Soothsayer: thanks.09:39
Symo Kurka: Justice just a short amendment09:40
Cindy Ecksol waves at gwyn09:40
Symo Kurka: “Every agenda for the RA shall be based on a schedule of 2 hours”… I would suggest of “maximum” 2 hours09:40
Justice Soothsayer: I’ll second that.
Cindy Ecksol raises hand09:42
Symo Kurka: Ok i anticipate i’m in favour09:42
Symo Kurka: … Cindy?09:42
Cindy Ecksol: Symo, I’ ma bi tconcerned about all th erule sthat specifiy that this item must take 10 minutes and that will take 15….09:42
Cindy Ecksol: seems too restrictive to me.09:42
Symo Kurka: Yes09:42
Cindy Ecksol: and potentially time-wasting.09:42
Symo Kurka: LKisten to me guys09:42
Symo Kurka: i thank Justice for the job he’s done. We all really appreciate it. But please let’s keep it as a guideline…09:42
Symo Kurka: a fklexible guide line09:42
Symo Kurka: I want to make clear that I do NOT think RA has to be JUST a perfect bill approval/voting machine, no…09:43
Justice Soothsayer: I agree Cindy, but thatt’s the rule we have in place now. In practice, the LRA has been able to let discussion go as needed, but having the club of the rules to enforce if needed.09:43
Pip Torok: (so long as “flexible”remains flexible)09:43
Cindy Ecksol: could we perhaps just say that each item gets a minimum of 10 mintues and can be extended by request of any RA member?09:44
Cindy Ecksol: to 15 that is…09:44
Sonja Strom: As I remember, that concept originally came from a concern that some RA members were trying to crowd out certain topics.09:44
Cindy Ecksol: yes…09:44
Symo Kurka: If an item needs 20 minutes discussion it MUST be ok09:44
Cindy Ecksol: so the min of 10 minutes makes sense….just not all the rest of the silliness09:44
Cindy Ecksol: yes, exactly symo09:45
Symo Kurka: the 10 / 15 minutes is a general guideline09:45
Cindy Ecksol: LRA should be able to set any time with consent of RA09:45
Symo Kurka: and has to be managed alas by the LRA09:45
Symo Kurka: YES09:45
Sonja Strom: I would like some clarification of Symo’s request for addition.09:45
Symo Kurka: but we cannot spend our time here asking connsents to evrything09:45
Symo Kurka listens09:45
Sonja Strom: When you say “Every agenda for the RA shall be based on a schedule of 2 hours,” this means that only a certain number of topics can be included in the agenda for each session?09:46
Symo Kurka: Flexibility means flexibility09:46
Symo Kurka: ?IF needed09:46
Symo Kurka: *if needed
Brian Livingston has indicated consent to be recorded.09:47
Cindy Ecksol: symo, those consents can be doneat the beginning when you set an agenda for our approval. if anyone wants more time on an item, they can say, and it will be added then./09:47
Symo Kurka: ok09:47
Sonja Strom: Why I ask that is because I think it would be possible to interpret it as that discussions of topics would need to be shortened to fit them all into a 2-hour schedule.09:47
Symo Kurka: The important to me09:48
Symo Kurka: is09:48
Symo Kurka: not to be considered just an approval machine09:48
Sonja Strom: I think we should allow enough time for each topic, and if we come to the end of the two hours, remaining topics should be moved to the beginning of the next meeting’s agenda.09:48
Pip Torok: strongly agree
Symo Kurka: Don’t you think RA could also be also a “think tank” and an opportunity to involve actively more citizens ?09:49
Symo Kurka: yes agree qith sonja09:49
Sonja Strom: ok09:49
Symo Kurka: And don’t forget one more thing09:49
Sonja Strom: thanks09:49
Symo Kurka: how many opportunities do we have to meet alltogether in world to discuss our future?09:49
Justice Soothsayer: Yes, our practice has been to move unfinished items to the top of the following meeting’s agenda09:50
Symo Kurka: ok shall we proceed to vote?09:50
Cindy Ecksol: what exactly are we voting on?09:50
Symo Kurka: The “Justice Procedure Paper” with my amendment+09:50
Cindy Ecksol: as it stands or as proposed to be amended?09:51
Justice Soothsayer: My draft of the reconicled rules, as amended by Symo’s note that the agenda should be a *max* of 2 hours09:51
Cindy Ecksol: I would also like to propose an amendment: that we eliminate the language that specifices allowcation of time09:51
Cindy Ecksol: or revise it to be less restrictive09:51
Soro Dagostino: raises hand09:52
Symo Kurka: can we just add the adjective “orientitavely” 1o minutes09:52
Symo Kurka: Soro09:52
Cindy Ecksol: ???09:52
Symo Kurka: sorry Gwyn09:52
Symo Kurka: )09:52
Soro Dagostino: Can it be resolved with a call for the question?09:52
Soro Dagostino: Non-debatable.09:53
Symo Kurka: Hey guys09:53
Symo Kurka: we are messing it up here09:53
Justice Soothsayer is unsure of meaning of ‘orientatively”09:53
Symo Kurka: so can we please redraft it and vote it next week?09:53
Pip Torok: agree with symo09:53
Soro Dagostino: Move to postpone09:54
Cindy Ecksol: yes, that would be good09:54
Justice Soothsayer: OK with me.09:54
Cindy Ecksol: second soro09:54
Symo Kurka: Great09:54
Soro Dagostino: Call the question09:54
Symo Kurka: we postpone to e second draft approval, necxt RA meeting who votes yes09:54
Soro Dagostino: Aye09:54
Pip Torok: aye09:54
Justice Soothsayer votes aye to postpone to next meeting09:54
Cindy Ecksol: aye09:55
Sonja Strom: I would rather vote on a complete text, and for this vote choose aye.09:55
Symo Kurka: aye09:55
Symo Kurka: Now next Item09:55
Symo Kurka: Hmm09:55
Symo Kurka: we are missing a Chancellor ))09:56
Symo Kurka: he had huge crashes yesterday09:56
Symo Kurka: we maybe need to buy him a new pc??09:56
Symo Kurka: so09:56
Rose Springvale: he’s traveling i think.. but know he planned to be here09:56
Justice Soothsayer: Has anyone told Jamie we would like a report on AA, other than making him read the RA transcript?09:56
Rose Springvale: there is bad weather in his part of the world today09:57
Symo Kurka: No monthly report today09:57
Symo Kurka: I’m afraid09:57
Sonja Strom: It’s often difficult when traveling in my experience.09:57
Pip Torok: symo would it be fweasible /desirable for Jamie to send in his report as a note if he has problems?09:57
Symo Kurka: Yes Pip09:57
Symo Kurka: good idea09:57
Symo Kurka: though i prefer vis a vis meetings09:58
Symo Kurka: anyway
Symo Kurka: we’ll ask him to send a written monthly report to RA09:58
Symo Kurka: (at least for this time)09:58
Pip Torok: i was thinking of a baxkup if he cannot be face2face09:59
Symo Kurka: Next ITEM09:59
Solomon Mosely: hi09:59
Symo Kurka: GMP10:00
Symo Kurka: I think we have to take our tiome on this subject for 3 reasons10:00
Soro Dagostino: Am I the only one who crashed?10:00
Symo Kurka: 1, Guild is working at revision10:00
Sonja Strom: Soro, I think so.10:00
Symo Kurka: 2, Gwyn – Cindy Committe (with my help lol) is working at procedures10:01
Symo Kurka: 3, its not a subject we can debate or “approve” in a hurry10:01
Symo Kurka: listen10:01
Symo Kurka: when we first mentioned GMP one year ago10:01
Symo Kurka: it fell in a Ddeadly silence10:01
Symo Kurka: now evrybody is chewing it10:01
Symo Kurka: which is good10:02
Symo Kurka: when we all will have a shared view of our community’s interest we will “approve 2 it10:02
Symo Kurka: not before10:02
Symo Kurka: so10:02
Symo Kurka: i WITHDRAW10:02
Symo Kurka: any “bill for approval” for the moment10:02
Symo Kurka: done10:03
Justice Soothsayer: Symo, that is most sensible.10:03
Symo Kurka: any questions?10:03
Symo Kurka: Ty Justice10:03
Sonja Strom: Thank you Symo.10:04
Symo Kurka: BUT10:04
Symo Kurka: be aware10:04
Symo Kurka: it does not mean i give up having a shared vision of our territorial development10:04
Symo Kurka: so i’ll insist in bothering you two girls ok?10:05
Pip Torok: I should hope not, Symo!10:05
Cindy Ecksol: ?10:05
Symo Kurka: yes Cindy-Gwyn committee10:05
Symo Kurka thinks time to adjourn10:05
Rose Springvale: wait!10:05
Rose Springvale: smile10:06
Rose Springvale raises hand to talk under general comments10:06
Symo Kurka: Ms Springvale??10:06
Rose Springvale: thanks 10:06
Rose Springvale: Wanted to thank everyone for your support of the Grand tour yesterday.. we had good turnout for our events10:06
Rose Springvale: and Arria is conducting a third one now, in the monastery10:06
Symo Kurka: LOL and huge griefers too ..)))10:07
Cindy Ecksol: hey, sign of succes!10:07
Rose Springvale: also, if you didn’t get here, go see the ski run, and check out the CDS ski outfits.. you can get special CDS skis for 1 L for the rest of the weekend (maybe longer)10:07
Rose Springvale: and10:07
Sonja Strom: yay!10:07
Sonja Strom: (their cute)10:07
Rose Springvale: Thank Solomon for the GREAT job he did of building us a temporarry temple to Aphrodite in the old Toga space10:07
Rose Springvale: go see that too10:07
Justice Soothsayer dons his CDS goggles10:07
Sonja Strom: YES, Thank You Solomon!10:07
Rose Springvale: and ask someone to tell you what you do when yuo begin an event and the building disappears….10:08
Rose Springvale: smile10:08
Sonja Strom: Great job!10:08
Rose Springvale: it was an EVENTFUL day 10:08
Sonja Strom: And of course, thank you Rose!!10:08
Rose Springvale: ah, here’s arria’s announcnemet, good10:08
Symo Kurka: Ok i move to adjourn
Symo Kurka: next RA meeting the 1st of March!!10:09
Symo Kurka: shall we adjourn?10:09
Symo Kurka: vote please10:09
Pip Torok: seconded10:09
Pip Torok: aye10:09
Justice Soothsayer: Ooh, does that mean we will meet on the Ides?10:09
Symo Kurka: yes abit earlier than Ides Justice …)10:10
Symo Kurka: favoutable to adjour say aye10:10
Justice Soothsayer: aye10:10
Symo Kurka: *favourable10:10
Sonja Strom: aye10:10
Symo Kurka: aye10:10
Symo Kurka: session adjourned10:10
Cindy Ecksol: aye
The meeting closed at 10:10 Linden time.RA Meeting: March 01, 2009
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
d. Future RA schedule: Sunday 15th March, 9:00 AM SLT
Second draft bill from Justice Soothsayer
Cin/Gwyn Commission Report
a. Open Citizens’ Proposals and Discussion (9:50 to 10:00)
b. Adjournment (10:00)
09:00Symo Kurka: coming soro
09:01Symo Kurka: lol
09:01Symo Kurka: we wait five minutes ok?
09:01Symo Kurka: welcome Ms Springvale
09:02Symo Kurka: Hi Pip
09:04Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Gwyneth Llewelyn has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino has indicated consent to be recorded.
Rose Springvale has indicated consent to be recorded.
09:04Rose Springvale: smile
Sonja Strom has indicated consent to be recorded.
09:05Soro Dagostino: Hello Sonja
09:05Sonja Strom:
09:06Sonja Strom: Sorry I missed last time – RL.
09:06Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwyn
09:06Rose Springvale: they are little glasses of “jello” made with usually some sort of alchohol
09:06Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi all that I haven’t said hi before )
09:06Symo Kurka: Welcome evrybody
09:07Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
Pip Torok has indicated consent to be recorded.
09:07Symo Kurka: Does anybody have news of Jamie
09:08Rose Springvale: Pip, i’ll send you a recipe
09:08Sonja Strom: lol!
09:08Soro Dagostino: Heard nothing from him . . .
09:08Sonja Strom: He did that in my shop too.
09:08Pip Torok: what some apes will do to get attention!
09:08Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww Cindy! Stream it into SL
09:08Rose Springvale: I”m sure he’ll be here. not on the agenda for a while
09:09Pip Torok: perhaps he’ll honour this meeting with his presence!
09:09Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, he just rezzed for me… lol
09:09Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Mael!
09:09Sonja Strom: Hi Mael
09:09Symo Kurka: cindy
09:10Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
09:10Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you play Democracy Ballads too, Mael? hehe
09:10Gwyneth Llewelyn: ABBA!
09:10Rose Springvale: ohhh
09:10Gwyneth Llewelyn applauds!!
09:10Pip Torok: err …
09:10Rose Springvale: we love Abba
09:11Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe no
09:11Sonja Strom: Yay – relaxing background music!
09:11Rose Springvale: Mael, we’re about to start a meeting, can i help you with questions about our sims?
09:11Gwyneth Llewelyn: or at least i should say… not that I’m aware of haha
09:11Pip Torok: youve guessed our dark and arcane secret!!!
09:11Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-oh Pip
09:11Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’re doomed, now we’ll have to bury him in the sewers
09:11Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh background music is nice!
09:12Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we have amazing ones, mael!
09:12Pip Torok: you seen Cloaca Maxima then??
09:12Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
09:12Rose Springvale: smile
09:12Gwyneth Llewelyn: this was fuuuun
09:12Symo Kurka: Thank you Mae
09:13Symo Kurka: I suppose we can start now
09:13Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
09:13Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hi thirsti!)
Cindy Ecksol has indicated consent to be recorded.
09:13Symo Kurka: Please touch the recorder under the table to indicate your consent to recording.
09:13Sonja Strom: I was just given an object by “Radar Free V42”
09:13Symo Kurka: Me too
09:13Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
09:13Symo Kurka: I have two updates to propose for agenda.
09:14Sonja Strom: ok
09:14Symo Kurka: PLEASE
09:14Symo Kurka: One update is Sonja’s Referendum Bill if she wishes to start discussion about it
09:14Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm.
09:14Symo Kurka: The second update is Colonia Nova Texture Contest
09:15Symo Kurka: Reps,
I ask you, is the proposed agenda acceptable with the update proposals??
09:15Cindy Ecksol: link for agenda, please symo….
09:16Symo Kurka: Yes sorry pip viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2355
thirsti Sweetwater has indicated consent to be recorded.
09:16Soro Dagostino: Move approval to the proposed changes.
09:16Cindy Ecksol: second
09:16Symo Kurka: Ok do we vote for this?
09:16Cindy Ecksol: yes, no discussion necessary
09:16Symo Kurka: Ok
09:17Symo Kurka: any citizen who wants to sign up to speak on any of the agenda items?
09:17Cindy Ecksol: lol!
09:17Soro Dagostino: Symo — call the question
09:17Cindy Ecksol: still need to vote
09:17Symo Kurka: Sorry
09:17Symo Kurka: we vote for agenda update
09:17Symo Kurka: say aye if you agree
09:17Cindy Ecksol: aye
09:17Soro Dagostino: You will be trained soon LOL
09:18Sonja Strom: aye
09:18Pip Torok: aye
09:18Soro Dagostino: aye
09:18Symo Kurka: gwyn?
09:18Symo Kurka: Hmm i vote aye and we go on if you don’t mind
09:18Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, I was actually reading the procedures lol
09:19Gwyneth Llewelyn: I thought that the LRA could introduce agenda points at whim, but allegedly not.
09:19Gwyneth Llewelyn: SO, well, yes, I vote aye to add thsoe two points to the end the agenda
09:19Sonja Strom: Me too.
[2009/03/01 9:19] Jamie Palisades: but Justice’;s new rules would constrint it somewhat
[2009/03/01 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, they would
[2009/03/01 9:19] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 9:19] Jamie Palisades: Gosh what a shock
[2009/03/01 9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which we will just vote on point II
[2009/03/01 9:20] Symo Kurka: Ok the first poin is just an info
[2009/03/01 9:20] Justice Soothsayer: sorry to be late
[2009/03/01 9:20] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn, Symo tries to work by consensus – i find it admirable – and rather new wave for CDS
[2009/03/01 9:20] Symo Kurka: NOMINATION OF ALIASI STONEBENDER TO THE SC
[2009/03/01 9:20] Soro Dagostino: Move Approval
[2009/03/01 9:20] Sonja Strom: No problem Justice, we are just talking about the agenda for today.
[2009/03/01 9:20] Pip Torok: seconded
[2009/03/01 9:20] Symo Kurka: I quote a msg i received from SC
[2009/03/01 9:20] Soro Dagostino: Call the question
[2009/03/01 9:20] Symo Kurka: Since the Stonebender nomination was communicated to you and posted on 28 January, my read of 4-8 is that the RA has a deadline of 27 February to act on the nomination or it is automatically ratified.
[2009/03/01 9:21] Cindy Ecksol: true
[2009/03/01 9:21] Symo Kurka: If there is any objection to Aliasi, a special meeting may be necessary.
[2009/03/01 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Indeed. Welcome, Aliasi
[2009/03/01 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Too late for tha now, Symo hehe
[2009/03/01 9:21] Sonja Strom: Is she here?
[2009/03/01 9:21] Symo Kurka: So if anybody has objections speak now or never
[2009/03/01 9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no, but I hope she reads the transcripts, Sonja )
[2009/03/01 9:21] Sonja Strom: I have only one real objection,
[2009/03/01 9:22] Sonja Strom: which is that I do not want to appoint her to the SC if she can not come to accept the nomination.
[2009/03/01 9:22] Symo Kurka: well sonja
[2009/03/01 9:22] Symo Kurka: please read
[2009/03/01 9:22] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2009/03/01 9:23] Symo Kurka: http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=149 .
[2009/03/01 9:23] Symo Kurka: Yes cindy
[2009/03/01 9:23] Sonja Strom: Oh, ok – – well, then I guess she can get in automatically.
[2009/03/01 9:23] Symo Kurka: Yes Sonja
[2009/03/01 9:24] Soro Dagostino: Raises hand.
[2009/03/01 9:24] Sonja Strom: But not with my vote.
[2009/03/01 9:24] Symo Kurka: we can ask her anyway by courtesy to attend one of our next meetings ok??
[2009/03/01 9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Attend, yes.
[2009/03/01 9:24] Symo Kurka: Soro
[2009/03/01 9:24] Cindy Ecksol: my question, symo, is whether anyone asked her specifically to be here at this meeting
[2009/03/01 9:24] Soro Dagostino: I think we ought to show that we support the nomination
[2009/03/01 9:24] Symo Kurka: No Cindy alas nobody did
[2009/03/01 9:24] Sonja Strom: For me it depends on if she wants us to vote to support her – if she does not care about that then there is no real reason for her to come to one of our meetings.
[2009/03/01 9:25] Symo Kurka: Of course i suppose we all do except sonja?
[2009/03/01 9:25] Cindy Ecksol: well, I will just point out that it is unreasonable to hold her to Sonja’s standard if no one asked her to attend
[2009/03/01 9:25] Justice Soothsayer: I would have preferred to have a discussion with her first, but I think it’s our fault we didn’t keep track of the timing.
[2009/03/01 9:25] Cindy Ecksol: she may not even know that her nomination is up for approval today
[2009/03/01 9:25] Sonja Strom: Did Aliasi not know that we might want to talk with her before we vote her in?
[2009/03/01 9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well it’s a procedural thingy really… the RA ‘forgot’ to confirm her appointment, so, well, there is no turning back the clock.
[2009/03/01 9:25] Symo Kurka: I jst move to propose the following
[2009/03/01 9:26] Symo Kurka: Nomination is obviously ratified but we would love to meet her in RA
[2009/03/01 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that she has only echoed what Justice already said. Sorry.
[2009/03/01 9:26] Soro Dagostino: Raises hand
[2009/03/01 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm I’m sorry, Symo, but what purpose would that have? She’s a SC member now, she isn’t answerable to the RA anymore…
[2009/03/01 9:26] Justice Soothsayer is always willing to be echoed by the lovely Gwyn
[2009/03/01 9:26] Pip Torok: thats the best glos upon this imo
[2009/03/01 9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[2009/03/01 9:27] Symo Kurka: Soro?
[2009/03/01 9:27] Soro Dagostino: Never mind.
[2009/03/01 9:27] Symo Kurka: Ok
[2009/03/01 9:27] Sonja Strom: I do not dislike Aliasi – I just think for us to vote on her nomination it would be best for her to be at the meeting.
[2009/03/01 9:27] Symo Kurka: So i propose TO INVITE her, just to invite her by courtesy
[2009/03/01 9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, but we aren’t allowed to do “a posteriori” invitations
[2009/03/01 9:28] Symo Kurka: Gwyn COURTESY is not compulsoruy
[2009/03/01 9:28] Sonja Strom: She does not need to come to our meeting or to be voted in by us to become a member of the SC.
[2009/03/01 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, or not explicitly allowed
[2009/03/01 9:28] Symo Kurka: Ok
[2009/03/01 9:28] Symo Kurka: guys
[2009/03/01 9:28] Symo Kurka: we cannot waste our time on this
[2009/03/01 9:28] Soro Dagostino: We have
[2009/03/01 9:28] Justice Soothsayer: indeed
[2009/03/01 9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: agreed
[2009/03/01 9:29] Symo Kurka: So i personally invite Aliasi for courtesy
[2009/03/01 9:29] Symo Kurka: to meet us if she can
[2009/03/01 9:29] Justice Soothsayer: Ali is on SC; future nominees should be scheduled for a discussion w/RA before we vote, or we vote ’em down.
[2009/03/01 9:29] Symo Kurka: AND we go on on second point
[2009/03/01 9:29] Pip Torok: (agree)
[2009/03/01 9:29] Symo Kurka: SECOND POINT
[2009/03/01 9:29] Sonja Strom: OK, I agree with that also.
[2009/03/01 9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: heeh Justice. yes, that would actually make more sense Was that a motion?
[2009/03/01 9:30] Symo Kurka: III. RA RULES OF PROCEDURE (9:20 to 9:30)
Second draft bill from Justice Soothsayer
[2009/03/01 9:30] Justice Soothsayer: revised after input at last meeting
[2009/03/01 9:30] Symo Kurka: Yes justice to you
[2009/03/01 9:30] Soro Dagostino: I looked for it this morning . . . couldn’t find it.
[2009/03/01 9:31] Symo Kurka: No discussion?
[2009/03/01 9:31] Justice Soothsayer loking for link
[2009/03/01 9:32] Justice Soothsayer: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1701
[2009/03/01 9:32] Justice Soothsayer: I’ll move adoption.
[2009/03/01 9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seconded
[2009/03/01 9:33] Symo Kurka: Ok for all?
[2009/03/01 9:33] Cindy Ecksol: discussion?
[2009/03/01 9:33] Jamie Palisades raises hand
[2009/03/01 9:33] Symo Kurka: Jamie?
[2009/03/01 9:33] Jamie Palisades: I note that sometimes RAs have gone well ove or under those 10 and 15 minute limits
[2009/03/01 9:33] Jamie Palisades: it seems harmless
[2009/03/01 9:34] Jamie Palisades: but I just wamnted to comment, well, it;s my hope that RA members have a bit of flexibility in regular practice
[2009/03/01 9:34] Symo Kurka: any amendment proposal Jamie?
[2009/03/01 9:34] Jamie Palisades: the limits give you a rule of thumb to cut off fdebates
[2009/03/01 9:34] Jamie Palisades: Symo –
[2009/03/01 9:34] Justice Soothsayer: The RA can always vote to extend time when needed
[2009/03/01 9:34] Jamie Palisades: not needed if it;s understood that the RA can agree to extend debate
[2009/03/01 9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Quoting Justice: “The RA majority can always extend the time for debate under Rule 2(B) if needed.”
[2009/03/01 9:35] Jamie Palisades: right – what he said
[2009/03/01 9:35] Jamie Palisades: good
[2009/03/01 9:35] Jamie Palisades: thx’
[2009/03/01 9:35] Symo Kurka: Can i comment that if RA members have NOT a bit of flexibility in regular practice they SHOULD NOT be here?
[2009/03/01 9:35] Justice Soothsayer is ready to vote
[2009/03/01 9:35] Symo Kurka: lol
[2009/03/01 9:36] Jamie Palisades: one hopes the electorate has that wisdom
[2009/03/01 9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles
[2009/03/01 9:36] Pip Torok: dont forget rules are ALWAYS used with discretion …
[2009/03/01 9:36] Symo Kurka: Ok
[2009/03/01 9:36] Symo Kurka: any amendment proposed?
[2009/03/01 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn remains silent
[2009/03/01 9:37] Symo Kurka: Ok we vote aye for Justice’ new Bill
[2009/03/01 9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
[2009/03/01 9:37] Symo Kurka: or nay if we do not agree
[2009/03/01 9:37] Justice Soothsayer votes Aye
[2009/03/01 9:37] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/03/01 9:37] Soro Dagostino: aye
[2009/03/01 9:38] Pip Torok: aye
[2009/03/01 9:38] Symo Kurka: great
[2009/03/01 9:38] Symo Kurka: unanimous, aye
[2009/03/01 9:38] Symo Kurka: POINT 4
[2009/03/01 9:38] Pip Torok: sonja (did she vote?)
[2009/03/01 9:38] Sonja Strom: aye, sorry IMs
[2009/03/01 9:38] Symo Kurka: sorry sonja???
[2009/03/01 9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2009/03/01 9:39] Symo Kurka: point IV
[2009/03/01 9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Go Jamie go
[2009/03/01 9:39] Symo Kurka: CHANCELLOR’s monthly report
[2009/03/01 9:39] Symo Kurka: i invite Jamie to speak
[2009/03/01 9:39] Jamie Palisades: Thanks
[2009/03/01 9:39] Jamie Palisades: First, on APPOINTMENTS:
[2009/03/01 9:39] Sonja Strom: I would like to thank everybody who put in so much work on arriving at these RA procedures.
[2009/03/01 9:39] Jamie Palisades waits, no problem, let me know
[2009/03/01 9:40] Sonja Strom: That was all, but I wanted to say thank you for all of this work .
[2009/03/01 9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: )
[2009/03/01 9:40] Jamie Palisades: OK
[2009/03/01 9:40] Symo Kurka: Ok thank you all let’s go on please, Jamie…
[2009/03/01 9:40] Jamie Palisades: appointments
[2009/03/01 9:41] Jamie Palisades: We have the benefit of our usual kind volunteers, thank heaven
[2009/03/01 9:41] Jamie Palisades: all such announcements go to the forums
[2009/03/01 9:41] Jamie Palisades: but I have not yet announced the reappointment of Brian and Rose as co-PIOs.
[2009/03/01 9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hooray
[2009/03/01 9:41] Jamie Palisades: There’s a reason they are (again, thank god) willing to continue to serve as well
[2009/03/01 9:41] Jamie Palisades: but
[2009/03/01 9:41] Jamie Palisades: I plan to implement a title change and in one case a duties change
[2009/03/01 9:42] Jamie Palisades: so this is your notification, and we will post it to the forums as well for comments
[2009/03/01 9:42] Jamie Palisades: in that way
[2009/03/01 9:42] Jamie Palisades: while the RA need not act to confirm it, it gives you a chance if you think we’re doing something dumb
[2009/03/01 9:42] Jamie Palisades grins – perish the thought
[2009/03/01 9:42] Symo Kurka smiles
[2009/03/01 9:42] Jamie Palisades: 1. I plan to change Brians’ title slightly from PIO to CIO
[2009/03/01 9:43] Pip Torok:
[2009/03/01 9:43] Jamie Palisades: that is, Chief Information Officer
[2009/03/01 9:43] Jamie Palisades: which has a slightly broader meaning in business
[2009/03/01 9:43] Jamie Palisades: and seems better to suit his role
[2009/03/01 9:43] Jamie Palisades: again two weeks to comment or stop us
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: Rose, again, thank heaven, continues to be willign to serve in her many roles assisting CDS
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: I’ve asked her to take on a new one as well
[2009/03/01 9:44] Symo Kurka thinks it sounds nuance to non english language natives
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: she is increaingly finding assistance to run events
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: then you won’t mind it, Symo
[2009/03/01 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hah!
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: “CIO” is meaningful in a US business context – a nice title to have
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: ahem
[2009/03/01 9:44] Symo Kurka: kkkk
[2009/03/01 9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There is indeed a subtle difference; but Rose’s title first, please…
[2009/03/01 9:44] Symo Kurka: lol
[2009/03/01 9:44] Jamie Palisades: Rose is getting help with events
[2009/03/01 9:45] Jamie Palisades: and I have asked her to take a bigger role in new citizen development
[2009/03/01 9:45] Jamie Palisades: which actually relates strongly to events
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: So essentially this is a “development” job
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: I might add
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: it does not include sim expansion
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: for one thing
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: that’s my job
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: for another
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: she owns AA
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: so in MY view – unlike that of some of our friends here – that’s a conflict of interest
[2009/03/01 9:46] Jamie Palisades: so Rose could not be involved properly in any CDS decision about AA
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: um, that is, for those of us who believe there is such a thing as a conflict of interest (smile)
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: AA being Al Andalus
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: now
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: that also means that, between Rose and I,
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: we woudl be able to lift from Sudane a burden she’s long found annoying
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: *found
[2009/03/01 9:47] Jamie Palisades: which is being our real estate seller, as well as treasurer
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: I belideve you all know that I find it VERY important
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: that we have a fair
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: transparent
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: real estate market
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: so, getting some more hands on deck there will matter
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: … also, as a sheer practical matter
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: Rose and I are involved in most new citizen touches
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: and if we have the land handy, well, that will help
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: also
[2009/03/01 9:48] Jamie Palisades: as you know hah hah
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: Justice will recall my promise from last term on this
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: I have been too darn slow to get the land software issue resolved
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: so help there, as well, would be a gooooood thing
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: now Gwyn’s focus
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: title
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: I don’t know
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: I see three options
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: and plan to get feedback on this as well via the forums, and come back to it in two weeks
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: one is Director of Development
[2009/03/01 9:49] Jamie Palisades: (a little corporate, for us)
[2009/03/01 9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2009/03/01 9:50] Jamie Palisades: one is Chief Development Officeer
[2009/03/01 9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Minister for Development?
[2009/03/01 9:50] Jamie Palisades: (or chief SOMETHING officer)
[2009/03/01 9:50] Jamie Palisades: could be
[2009/03/01 9:50] Jamie Palisades: at present we do not have ministers, so there’s a parallellism Q
[2009/03/01 9:50] Jamie Palisades: but honestly? not too concerned
[2009/03/01 9:50] Jamie Palisades: as long as
[2009/03/01 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (true, it was meant as a joke, sorry to interrupt)
[2009/03/01 9:51] Justice Soothsayer: what is latin for “Realtor”?
[2009/03/01 9:51] Soro Dagostino: brb
[2009/03/01 9:51] Jamie Palisades: it does not get a goofy embarrassing science fiction name
[2009/03/01 9:51] Sonja Strom: Chief Internal Affairs Officer = CIAO, lol
[2009/03/01 9:51] Jamie Palisades: there’s another option, grin
[2009/03/01 9:51] Jamie Palisades: designed to make the teeth of political opponents fall out
[2009/03/01 9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: LOL Sonja!!!
[2009/03/01 9:51] Justice Soothsayer: lol Sonja
[2009/03/01 9:51] Sonja Strom:
[2009/03/01 9:51] Jamie Palisades: ick sonja sounds ilke the secret police
[2009/03/01 9:51] Sonja Strom: lol
[2009/03/01 9:51] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[2009/03/01 9:52] Cindy Ecksol loves sonja’s acronym!!!
[2009/03/01 9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: me too hehe
[2009/03/01 9:52] Jamie Palisades: ther better title for us from a sales point of view, of course, would be deputy chancellor for development, smile
[2009/03/01 9:52] Jamie Palisades: so
[2009/03/01 9:52] Jamie Palisades: we will take comments for two weeks and see
[2009/03/01 9:52] Jamie Palisades: done with that topic
[2009/03/01 9:52] Jamie Palisades: … LAND
[2009/03/01 9:53] Jamie Palisades: You may have noticed that Locus Amoenus is almost fully sold; once again, our residential space is near capacity, except for some tough-to-sell space in Colonia Nova and a few random turnovers each month. As we’ve discussed, practically each new event brings prospects and often new citizens.
[2009/03/01 9:53] Jamie Palisades: You will see that I announced and opened the bid process for our open commercial land this weekend as well; we’ll see how the reduced-price plan enacted by the last RA for commercial land works, now that the SL “real estate market” has calmed down a little. I note that a number of estate sims now do deep discounts or in some cases sell new land for free, just to ensure that their monthly tier keeps coming in, So we will see how that market develops.
[2009/03/01 9:53] Jamie Palisades: here’s that link
[2009/03/01 9:53] Jamie Palisades: for process ->
[2009/03/01 9:53] Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2359
[2009/03/01 9:54] Jamie Palisades: and for the first three parcels ->
[2009/03/01 9:54] Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2360
[2009/03/01 9:54] Jamie Palisades: in case you are wondering
[2009/03/01 9:54] Jamie Palisades: that’s is Pelanor’s old corner Marktplatz lot
[2009/03/01 9:54] Jamie Palisades: in NFS
[2009/03/01 9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
[2009/03/01 9:54] Jamie Palisades: and Bruno’s two Corda lots in CN
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: I do not plan to announce on the website plans to offer other parcels in advance
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: because, well, that discourages bids
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: but
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: FYI
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: I expect the lots being re-done by Solomon and Lilith now
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: (in the SE corner of CN city, under Guild auspices)
[2009/03/01 9:55] Jamie Palisades: to be added to those, as soon as they are done.
[2009/03/01 9:56] Jamie Palisades: and we think that will help make that space more attractive as well.
[2009/03/01 9:56] Jamie Palisades: It continues to be a very important issue to me that CDS offer new or reclaimed land in a fair way, so all interested parties have a chance. I have asked Rose to help with this in two stages — one to develop a broker-like system so that we always have a visible queue for land opportunities, and the other in the final selection and installation of appropriate neutral software for self-help land purchases. See my comments about her proposed job responsibilities.
[2009/03/01 9:56] Jamie Palisades: I’m done with land issues.
[2009/03/01 9:56] Jamie Palisades: EVENTS
[2009/03/01 9:56] Jamie Palisades: Our first attempt at an inaugural ball was right on the heels of a Neufreistadt sim crash … as the bumper sticker says, “stuff happens.” So we had a fine but informal event, and invited people to come back for the Colonia Nova grand tour.
We enjoyed a successful return of the inter-estate Grand Tour in February. Our Alpine sims hosted a ski event, as the tour’s first stop, and many CDS citizens and visitors enjoyed a new ski run — which we’ll talk about again later in this report. A second Grand Tour event, which also served as our inaugural ball mark 2, was hosted in the space renovated by Solomon Mosely on the old commercial site in Colonia Nova, very nicely decorated (thanks Sol). And thanks always to Rose for her matchless help with event administration.
[2009/03/01 9:56] Jamie Palisades: The ski event, well, rocked.
[2009/03/01 9:57] Jamie Palisades: We have made some official and unoffical improvements to facilitate it.
[2009/03/01 9:57] Jamie Palisades: I expect to finalize our ski routes for further use in future winter seasons …
[2009/03/01 9:57] Cindy Ecksol: /me cheers for great ski runs
[2009/03/01 9:57] Jamie Palisades: and will post that map as well. Note that snow is “expected” to leave on 15 March
[2009/03/01 9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2009/03/01 9:58] Jamie Palisades: this is the Alps, not Caledon
[2009/03/01 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
[2009/03/01 9:58] Jamie Palisades: and between now and then, we can have rousing chats about stuff like
[2009/03/01 9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[2009/03/01 9:58] Jamie Palisades: – is the hill above cindy’s AM house a death jump?
[2009/03/01 9:58] Symo Kurka: lol
[2009/03/01 9:58] Cindy Ecksol: hee hee!
[2009/03/01 9:58] Cindy Ecksol: I LOVE that jump!!!
[2009/03/01 9:58] Jamie Palisades: – should we keep a run over Pip’s amphitheatre land?
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: – are you all appalled by the temporary bridge I put on one AM path?
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: etc
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: should be fun
[2009/03/01 9:59] Pip Torok: id be happy if the theatre itself isn’t touched
[2009/03/01 9:59] Cindy Ecksol loves the bridge too….although it surprised her at first
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades nods
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: but we have a lot of ski fans, so let’s get the public feedback
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: … last item …
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: EVENTS BUDGET AND PROGRAM
[2009/03/01 9:59] Jamie Palisades: By way of reminder
[2009/03/01 10:00] Jamie Palisades: last term we were extremely conservative
[2009/03/01 10:00] Jamie Palisades: spending only 1/4 of our operating monthly surplus AFTER expenses
[2009/03/01 10:00] Jamie Palisades: and I told the RA then that I expected to do more this term
[2009/03/01 10:00] Jamie Palisades: I do, and let me elaborate.
[2009/03/01 10:01] Jamie Palisades: We spend (per the Sept 2008 RA chats) an average of about L$11000/month on event and culture programming
[2009/03/01 10:01] Jamie Palisades: is is about a fourth of the funds available AFTER reserving at the level Sudane recommended
[2009/03/01 10:01] Jamie Palisades: so I plan to double or triple that
[2009/03/01 10:01] Jamie Palisades: but
[2009/03/01 10:01] Jamie Palisades: actually I plan to have CDS citizens double or triple it
[2009/03/01 10:01] Jamie Palisades: as follows
[2009/03/01 10:02] Jamie Palisades: 1. I will recommend that we appoint a standing Culture and Art panel — a commission, perhaps, but not under the temporary-project rules now used — of at least 3 members, who will allocate event funds for cultural and art activities in CDS.
[2009/03/01 10:02] Jamie Palisades: Let some interested citizens (with appriopriate conflict of interest rules) bring us the stuff they thik suited, let’s see if they can out do Rose and I
[2009/03/01 10:02] Jamie Palisades: which would be great – and I think they can
[2009/03/01 10:03] Jamie Palisades: I will suggest names shortly – but a moment’s thought will tell you that we have a number of creatives here who would do a fine jobn
[2009/03/01 10:03] Jamie Palisades: 2.
[2009/03/01 10:03] Jamie Palisades: I will recommend that EACH sim (note we have four) be given, through a simple consensus panel of landowners in that sim, a budget for LOCAL in-theme events.
[2009/03/01 10:04] Jamie Palisades: If CN and LA want more saturnalias, well, Godspeed
[2009/03/01 10:04] Cindy Ecksol claps
[2009/03/01 10:04] Jamie Palisades: While both of these methods will be essentially selfgovernance
[2009/03/01 10:04] Jamie Palisades: and NOT a big rules to do
[2009/03/01 10:04] Jamie Palisades: They still would be subject to administrative supervision (sudane and I still get involve in signoffs like we do today – a check on people paying themselves )
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades: We still have a current budget for CDS-wide events
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades: but some of the concerts and fun stuff can be “downstreamed”.
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades: I might add that a local-control fund also would
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades: coincidentally
[2009/03/01 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn shouts: Ok, I do have a few questions, and I do apologise in advance if there are answers on the forums. Links would be mostly appreciated if there are any answers already.
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades: probably solve the biggest single current concern of Al Andalaus residents
[2009/03/01 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 10:05] Jamie Palisades: Done
[2009/03/01 10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wrong key
[2009/03/01 10:06] Jamie Palisades smiles at the excited Senator
[2009/03/01 10:06] Symo Kurka: Now we all know Gwyn has a Third Life
[2009/03/01 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: More like the silly Senator who doesn’t know the difference between Ctrl and Cmd :O
[2009/03/01 10:06] Jamie Palisades: .. command and control is dead, we all know that ..)
[2009/03/01 10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[2009/03/01 10:06] Symo Kurka: Well it seems that our friend Jamie did not sleep much in the last weeks.
[2009/03/01 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, anyhow, I’ll put myself in the queue for some questions, Symo…
[2009/03/01 10:07] Symo Kurka: Ok please try to be concise with questions, we all will need a few days to get through all that reading in forums
[2009/03/01 10:07] Symo Kurka: And a personal thank to Jamie
[2009/03/01 10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, so I suppose most of it will be in the forums anyway….
[2009/03/01 10:08] Symo Kurka: Ok Gwyn..questions??
[2009/03/01 10:08] Jamie Palisades: sure – but if there are top-of-the-head questions now, shoot
[2009/03/01 10:08] Jamie Palisades: so to speak
[2009/03/01 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So yes, first: THANKS!
[2009/03/01 10:08] Pip Torok: i have one question jamie … there are citizens (like me) who are members of AA ie have property and go to their meetings … should “we” desist from certain discussions because of conflict of interest?
[2009/03/01 10:08] Jamie Palisades: :/ i do not think so Pip – Rose OWNS it and would be a seller and us a buyer, basically
[2009/03/01 10:08] Symo Kurka: First was Gwyn
[2009/03/01 10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, Pip can go first )
[2009/03/01 10:08] Jamie Palisades oops – carry on
[2009/03/01 10:09] Soro Dagostino: Raises hand.
[2009/03/01 10:09] Jamie Palisades: (not that it’s a “purchase” technically – but the basic idea is the same. LOTS of people overlap as citizens, though.
[2009/03/01 10:09] Symo Kurka: The line is Gwyn, Pip, Soro
[2009/03/01 10:09] Jamie Palisades: Pip, were you answered?
[2009/03/01 10:09] Pip Torok: yes!
[2009/03/01 10:09] Symo Kurka: kk
[2009/03/01 10:09] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn?
[2009/03/01 10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the first one is about clarifying the role of Treasurer and Estate Owner under the new executive. If I understand it, Sudane will focus on treasury; others (Rose, yourself) will mostly manage parcel allocation to citizens etc.
[2009/03/01 10:10] Jamie Palisades: that’s the concept
[2009/03/01 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (note: I do agree this is an awesome concept!)
[2009/03/01 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[2009/03/01 10:10] Jamie Palisades: we get a LOT of work from Sudane already
[2009/03/01 10:10] Jamie Palisades: and
[2009/03/01 10:10] Jamie Palisades: the hope is that automation will simply radically
[2009/03/01 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Next, I *totally* agree with MORE spending in events!!
[2009/03/01 10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah yes G€” I understand that a new land management tool is propsoed for development
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, I’m sure we’ll know more about that, once it’s done
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Event funding G€” by all means, increase the fundiing ))
[2009/03/01 10:11] Jamie Palisades: (software on which I am horridly late, gwyn … was discussed at end of 9th RA)
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m quite intrigued about this “Arts Committee” though
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, that’s fine)
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What will be the legal status of that body,
[2009/03/01 10:11] Jamie Palisades: well
[2009/03/01 10:11] Jamie Palisades: as of now
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: Chancellor does it
[2009/03/01 10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. is it an advisory NGO to the Chancellor?
[2009/03/01 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: so power devolves from executive if at all, legally speaking
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: hmm – an NGO seems like overkill
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: I see it as an executive advisory panel
[2009/03/01 10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So is it “part” of the executive, like, say, the Janitors?
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: but like any executive activities
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: subject to oversight
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: and
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: realistically
[2009/03/01 10:12] Jamie Palisades: a way to push more decision making on citizens
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: get some more minds in here
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: a little empowerment
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: like I said, though, same fiscal supervision loop as always
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: just not ALL instigated by Rose and me anymore
[2009/03/01 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s where my question was… will this be an appointed body by the Executive? (mind you, this is a neutral question; the Executive has full power to do that)
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: I expect so, yes
[2009/03/01 10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: take a look at the commercial land bid process, BTW
[2009/03/01 10:13] Jamie Palisades: another instance of an executive panel
[2009/03/01 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah good point. Yes.
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: but there I am asking factions to nominate people
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: here
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: the art thing
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: we’re looking for artists
[2009/03/01 10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Following that…. the same will apply to the “local” event groups, ie. the Chancellor will appoint a group of people on each sim to deal with local events?
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: i do not think so
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: though I have given myself two weeks
[2009/03/01 10:14] Soro Dagostino: zzzzzzzz
[2009/03/01 10:14] Jamie Palisades: I think we need to have any land owner eligible to come chat about what — locus ameonus — wants
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: i expect that I will end up going to a bunch of horrid town meetings
[2009/03/01 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so like “Local Town Halls”
[2009/03/01 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: With Executive oversight,
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: but our role is to facilitate what makes the locals happy
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: and give them a budget
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: yup
[2009/03/01 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and referring to the “Arts Committee”?
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: oh – sorry if that was unclear
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: nio
[2009/03/01 10:15] Cindy Ecksol thinks this has interesting implications for future development of CDS government as we grow
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: two budgets
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: three really
[2009/03/01 10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Cindy’s thinking hehe
[2009/03/01 10:15] Jamie Palisades: 1. existing – managed by executive/PIO people
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: 2. arts council
[2009/03/01 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: 3. local councils
[2009/03/01 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All right, all right
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: thus the word “triple”
[2009/03/01 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Got it! I’m slow, I know…
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: and
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: honestly
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: I am trying to suggest somethimg simple, that does not require us to grapple with big-picture local-government puzzles
[2009/03/01 10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I wasn’t understanding the relation hehe G€” so overall funding will triple *because* there will be two new event funding sinks
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: not trying to mess with RA structure etcetcetc
[2009/03/01 10:16] Jamie Palisades: yes
[2009/03/01 10:17] Jamie Palisades: if you guys want local GOVERNMENTS, not just local event kitties, well, that’s for someone else’s drafting pen, for now
[2009/03/01 10:17] Symo Kurka thinks “structure”???
[2009/03/01 10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I won’t ask more questions ty so much! I find this a very intriguing idea actually, and one that might solve, in the future, the issue about the AA merger
[2009/03/01 10:17] Jamie Palisades: kitty = colloquial for “small pot of money”
[2009/03/01 10:17] Jamie Palisades: there was a third questioner?
[2009/03/01 10:17] Symo Kurka: Ok there was Soro too??
[2009/03/01 10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, not from me, Soro’s next
[2009/03/01 10:18] Soro Dagostino: Actually a comment on conflicts.
[2009/03/01 10:18] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 10:18] Soro Dagostino: If I remember.
[2009/03/01 10:18] Soro Dagostino: The requirement should be disclosure.
[2009/03/01 10:18] Soro Dagostino: Not that they have to stop speaking.
[2009/03/01 10:19] Jamie Palisades nods – Soro I think my concern is that we not have a panel of two people who vote to give themselves all the money
[2009/03/01 10:19] Soro Dagostino: So long as its on the agenda item.
[2009/03/01 10:19] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 10:20] Jamie Palisades: so if there are votes – as seems inevitable in the Arts Council case – I’d expect some abstensions by people who have a proposal on the table
[2009/03/01 10:20] Soro Dagostino: Agreed
[2009/03/01 10:20] Symo Kurka: Other questions?
[2009/03/01 10:21] Jamie Palisades: thanks very much then
[2009/03/01 10:21] Symo Kurka: /
[2009/03/01 10:21] Justice Soothsayer: Jamie, did you ge tthe word that we were looking for a report on AA?
[2009/03/01 10:21] Jamie Palisades: Justice, shall I give you a short answer now?
[2009/03/01 10:22] Justice Soothsayer: sure
[2009/03/01 10:22] Jamie Palisades: Or better in writing? Symo?
[2009/03/01 10:22] Justice Soothsayer: I the LRA permits
[2009/03/01 10:22] Justice Soothsayer: *If the LRA permits
[2009/03/01 10:22] Symo Kurka: Hum
[2009/03/01 10:22] Justice Soothsayer: But the short question was whether you knew we wanted a report, not what is your report.
[2009/03/01 10:22] Symo Kurka: i think on this complex matter we cannot fix time terms
[2009/03/01 10:22] Jamie Palisades: ah
[2009/03/01 10:22] Jamie Palisades: yes
[2009/03/01 10:22] Jamie Palisades: The LRA informed me
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: so what’s your wish? also – hm – the date on that was not today
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: but still
[2009/03/01 10:23] Justice Soothsayer: Any likely time frame from your perspective?
[2009/03/01 10:23] Justice Soothsayer: For the report, that is.
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: want the four sentence version now, with more detail by the orgin deadline?
[2009/03/01 10:23] Justice Soothsayer: aye
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: which I thought was 15 march, but not looking at the msg
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: right then
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: we have five issues as I see it with AA
[2009/03/01 10:23] Jamie Palisades: 1. Do we want to do it?
[2009/03/01 10:24] Jamie Palisades: (RA will get to vote – and decide who else gets a say)
[2009/03/01 10:24] Jamie Palisades: 2. Is it fiscally sound?
[2009/03/01 10:24] Jamie Palisades: (apparently yes, very, and I need to give you numbers to prove that, which are proving a confidentiality issue, but working on it.)
[2009/03/01 10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[2009/03/01 10:24] Jamie Palisades: 3. Can they safely come to us without our “eating” their separate cultural life?
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: (which is important to them)
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: (thus the local programs idea )
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: 4. Can they safely come to us without our razing all their gorgeous community structures?
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: (I suspect so – our theme laws actually make it damn hard)
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: (but if they require any other assurance, that will be a topic for RA and law)
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: and finally
[2009/03/01 10:25] Jamie Palisades: 5.
[2009/03/01 10:26] Jamie Palisades: Do they want to come to us?
[2009/03/01 10:26] Jamie Palisades: (we want to get the full sims, not empty ones)
[2009/03/01 10:26] Jamie Palisades: (apparently so, but it will depend on 1-4).
[2009/03/01 10:26] Jamie Palisades: Now
[2009/03/01 10:26] Jamie Palisades: There are other expansion projects posibilities
[2009/03/01 10:26] Jamie Palisades: but you asked about AA done
[2009/03/01 10:26] Symo Kurka thinks very clear sumup
[2009/03/01 10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, thank you for that!
[2009/03/01 10:27] Jamie Palisades: oo – and I have a RL issue, so may have to leave shortly
[2009/03/01 10:27] Symo Kurka: yes we all are late her
[2009/03/01 10:27] Symo Kurka: +so can i propose
[2009/03/01 10:27] Symo Kurka: we postpone some items
[2009/03/01 10:27] Symo Kurka: cindy/gwyn commission and sonja’s bill
[2009/03/01 10:28] Symo Kurka: and we have a quick look at texture contest?
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol raises habd
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: hdn
[2009/03/01 10:28] Symo Kurka: Cindy
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: hand…that is
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: Symo, this report has already been postponed
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: and there are some things that we need to get on with
[2009/03/01 10:28] Symo Kurka: Ok
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: do I have th efloor?
[2009/03/01 10:28] Symo Kurka: yes
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: ok
[2009/03/01 10:28] Cindy Ecksol: Two meetings ago, Gwyn and I volunteered to look into what was already in the Code regarding GMP with an eye towards opening a discussion of whether/what additional legislation might be needed to properly maintain and utilize the GMP.
[2009/03/01 10:28] Soro Dagostino: Point of Information?
[2009/03/01 10:29] Cindy Ecksol: yes soro?
[2009/03/01 10:29] Soro Dagostino: Has the report been published?
[2009/03/01 10:29] Cindy Ecksol: o report
[2009/03/01 10:29] Cindy Ecksol: this is it….so listen up
[2009/03/01 10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[2009/03/01 10:29] Jamie Palisades: Apologies, I have to excuse myself, … but I understood from Cindy that no RA action on her almost-started commission is to be taken today, so I guess I can wish them good luck and attend the future meeting when announced.
[2009/03/01 10:29] Jamie Palisades:
[2009/03/01 10:29] Jamie Palisades bows graciously
[2009/03/01 10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bye, jamie, and thank you again
[2009/03/01 10:30] Jamie Palisades: Thank you all!
10:30Cindy Ecksol: bye jamie…
10:30Cindy Ecksol: ok….continuing….
10:30Cindy Ecksol: To date, we’ve had two long discussions that were focused not on coming up with legislation per se (since that would really need public discussion) but on trying to identify what exactly needs to be discussed and how to start a debate that will lead the community in productive directions.
10:30Cindy Ecksol: To make a long story short, we found relevant statements the Code in 8-2 and 8-4:
10:30Cindy Ecksol: 8-2 assumes GMP exists and is current and directs RA to consider it when approving new sims
10:30Cindy Ecksol: 8-4 assumes GMP exists, then directs Chancellor to take GMP into account when assessing proposals for private development.
10:31Cindy Ecksol: Both 8-2 and 8-4 emphasize that the role of the Guild is advisory and non-governmental
10:31Cindy Ecksol: Both 8-2 and 8-4 order RA and/or Chancellor to work with New Guild to accomplish government missions (seems required, not optional, although they are not “bound” by GMP)
10:31Cindy Ecksol: This raises what we think is the central issue: No one in RA or Executive has responsibility for developing/maintaining GMP.
10:31Cindy Ecksol: So if New Guild does not volunteer to create and maintain it on a regular basis, then GMP soon becomes outdated and useless. If Guild chooses not to work on GMP, neither RA nor Executive has any way to ensure completion of that work. Yet Code requires both RA and Executive to consult GMP regarding addition of new sims. And there are no other clear options in the Code regarding how the GMP might be completed other than by “directing” the New Guild to do so..and they are really an independent NGO that the government has no right to “direct” to do anything at all.
10:32Cindy Ecksol: You can all appreciate the issues I’m sure….
10:32Cindy Ecksol: That’s the essence. Of course there’s much more behind it, and we think it would be best if we opened the discussion of this central issue up to the community at this point. So our recommendations:
10:32Cindy Ecksol: 1. Open public discussion on the role of GMP in forums
10:32Cindy Ecksol: a. Who in government should have prime responsibility for maintaining GMP?
10:33Cindy Ecksol: b. How should the maintenance process work? (who proposes, who approves, how often, etc.)
10:33Cindy Ecksol: c. What role do we want the GMP to play in acquisition/development of new sims? Binding? Non-binding? “Advisory?”
10:33Cindy Ecksol: d. How should the role of GMP be implemented? New code required? Balance of power?
10:33Cindy Ecksol: 2. Open public discussion on role of the New Guild. If New Guild is truly an NGO, how do we avoid putting it in a position where it seems to be required to respond to mandatory requests from RA or Chancellor for completion of particular tasks? Or should some functions that now tacitly reside in New Guild really be government functions? Is so, which functions? And where in government should they reside?
10:33Cindy Ecksol: Our intent is to open and foster a couple of threads on the forum that will allow everyone who is interested to get involved. We’re looking forward to hearing what comes up, and in particular we’ll be interested to see if the discussion generates a basis for a bill to be proposed and if so what that bill will look like.
10:34Cindy Ecksol: That’s where we’re at…all done except that we will certainly entertain questions
10:34Symo Kurka:
10:34Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, here or on the forums
10:34Symo Kurka: Great job girls
10:35Symo Kurka: Just one question. Who develops a single new sim if guild refuses to do it?
10:35Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, it’s a tricky subject really.
10:35Gwyneth Llewelyn: Public sim, or private sim, Symo?
10:35Symo Kurka: Both cases
10:35Cindy Ecksol: Symo, that is beyond the scope of our current discussion
10:35Symo Kurka: Lol
10:35Symo Kurka: it was analogy
10:35Symo Kurka: a provocatory question
10:35Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hehe actually CIndy’s right. But the answer is simple really…
10:35Cindy Ecksol: right now we’re just looking at the question of who has responsibility for the GMP IN GOVERNMANET
10:35Gwyneth Llewelyn: Public: the Chancellor decides
10:35Symo Kurka: anyway we stop here
10:36Pip Torok: true and dont forget the ngo IS an open organisation
10:36Gwyneth Llewelyn: Private: the person who owns the sim decides
10:36Symo Kurka: Him
10:36Symo Kurka: –*hum
10:36Symo Kurka: we better stop here
10:36Cindy Ecksol:
10:36Cindy Ecksol: yep!
10:36Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha well..
10:36Symo Kurka: cann i show you a very NICE thing?
10:37Cindy Ecksol wonders if we cn allocate some funds to fix the roof so the snow doesn’t get in here
10:37Gwyneth Llewelyn laughs at Cindy
10:37Symo Kurka: can you see it?
10:37Pip Torok: 9Ive taught in classes with snowy floors!)
10:38Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s loading, Symo…
10:38Symo Kurka: Dear reps dear citizens
10:38Symo Kurka: Yet another dream comes nearer today.
10:38Symo Kurka: Yet another dream comes in world thanks to two citizens’ skills.
10:39Symo Kurka: Moon and Cindy, who worked for texture contest
10:39Symo Kurka: We got here some VERY elegant textures
10:39Symo Kurka: the cube is tiles and the screen is walls
10:39Symo Kurka: of the early roman empire
10:40Symo Kurka: and I’m proud to announce that these textures will change the look and feel of Colonia Nova
10:40Symo Kurka: and will bring back to our virtual world
10:40Symo Kurka: the look and feel of a very elegant town
10:40Symo Kurka: of the early roman empire
10:40Symo Kurka: I’m done
10:40Cindy Ecksol never thought those tiles she put up in her kitchen would be “Roman” some day
10:41Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Cindy
10:41Gwyneth Llewelyn: love the textures, Symo!
10:41Symo Kurka: If sonja agrees i would prefer to psotpone the referendum bill to next RA
10:41Symo Kurka: Sonja?
10:41Sonja Strom: OK, that is fine.
10:41Symo Kurka: Than k you dear
10:41Symo Kurka: i move to adjourn
10:41Cindy Ecksol: second
10:41Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on adjourning….
10:42Justice Soothsayer: OK
10:42Symo Kurka: whoa grees say aye
10:42Rose Springvale: wati
10:42Soro Dagostino: Aye
10:42Rose Springvale: grrrr
10:42Sonja Strom: aye
10:42Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Rose
10:42Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
10:42Pip Torok: aye
10:42Justice Soothsayer: gotta move fast, Rose
10:42Cindy Ecksol: whoops!
10:42Cindy Ecksol: I take my “aye” back….
10:42Rose Springvale: i believe there is an agenda point that was not called!
10:42Symo Kurka: lol we are adjourned Rose but you can say off the records
10:42Rose Springvale: nope.
10:42Symo Kurka: ??
10:42Rose Springvale: i’ll just let you all dig through forums.
10:42Sonja Strom: oh, Rose, would you like to say something?
10:42Rose Springvale: hmph
10:43Cindy Ecksol: symo hasn’t called fo rthe vote anyway — gwyn jumped the gun and we all followed….
10:43Rose Springvale: nm
10:43Rose Springvale: i’ll just be quiet
10:43Rose Springvale: i’ve got things to do too
10:43Soro Dagostino: Hah!
10:43Gwyneth Llewelyn: “a. Open Citizens’ Proposals and Discussion (9:50 to 10:00)” ?
10:43Sonja Strom: I’m sorry if we forgot something.
10:44Cindy Ecksol: Symo?
10:44Symo Kurka: Ok i listen to Rose
10:44Cindy Ecksol: are you calling for a vote on the open motion or shall we hear rose first?
10:44Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with listening to ROse too.
10:44Rose Springvale: no, sorry, i witdraw my remarks
10:44Symo Kurka: we hear Rose
10:44Symo Kurka: Rose please
10:45Rose Springvale: really, not important.
10:45Symo Kurka: I’m sorry, we adjourn then
10:46Gwyneth Llewelyn:
The meeting closed at 10:46 Linden time.RA Meeting: March 15, 2009
a. Get agreements to record session.
b. Review this agenda. Approve any changes (to be submitted to LRA before next thursday, 10.00 PM SLT)
c. Inquire for speakers on today’s agenda items.
d. Future RA schedule: Sunday 29th March, 9:00 AM SLT
Open discussion
a. Open Citizens’ Proposals and Discussion (9:10 to 9:30)
b. Adjournment (9:30)
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so sorry, I crshed as well—
[9:26] Symo Kurka: I have ni changes to this agenda
[9:26] Symo Kurka: *no
[9:27] Symo Kurka: As i did not receive any proposal
[9:27] Delia Lake: /i crashed also. hi everyone
[9:27] Arria Perreault: nothing related to GMP?
[9:27] Arria Perreault: or to expansion?
[9:27] Symo Kurka: I therefore start with asking to Arria to limit herself to the second part (open citizen’s proposals and discussion)
[9:28] Arria Perreault: thank you so much10m)
[9:30] Sonja Strom: Hi Kedwyn!
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wb Kedwyn!
[9:31] Cindy Ecksol: sorry! crashed…
[9:31] Kedwyn Parmelee: me too
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ack SL is a *mess* today!!
[9:31] Justice Soothsayer: every time I fully rezz out of the cloud, I crash
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[9:32] Symo Kurka: Delia Solomon please indicate consent
[9:32] Delia Lake: the number of crashes doesn’t bode well for sl today..
[9:32] Symo Kurka: So we were at poin one
[9:32] Symo Kurka: *point one
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: indeed, Delia
[9:33] Symo Kurka: bill for referendum, sonja do you want to speak?
[9:33] Sonja Strom: Hi everybody
[9:34] Sonja Strom: Ever since I first came to the CDS in February of 2007 I have thought it would be a good idea for the citizens to have an ability to vote on major decisions about the direction the community will take.
[9:35] Sonja Strom: The other side of that same way of looking at things is,
[9:35] Sonja Strom: I have thought it would be good for the RA to have a good way to poll the citizens about their wishes on large matters.
[9:36] Sonja Strom: Symo, did you want to speak?
[9:36] Sonja Strom: You are standing.
[9:36] Symo Kurka: Well i just add as i sais sometimes on forums i do agree and share the idea
[9:36] Symo Kurka: oh n o lol
[9:36] Sonja Strom: ok
[9:36] Sonja Strom:
[9:37] Symo Kurka: have you got a Bill proposal Sonja?
[9:37] Sonja Strom: Yes, I am speaking about a bill I would like to propose.
[9:37] Sonja Strom: Is this not what is on the agenda?
[9:38] Symo Kurka: yes sure go on
[9:38] Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
[9:38] Sonja Strom: I actually was surprised to find there was not something in place to do this,
[9:38] Sonja Strom: since the CDS is proud to describe itself as a self-governing, democratic community.
[9:39] Sonja Strom: I think it is very important that the CDS government do everything it can to include the citizens in decision-making, so everybody’s opinion can be heard and taken into consideration.
[9:39] Cindy Ecksol grumbles and wonders how she could just disappear from SL like that!
[9:40] Sonja Strom: wb Cindy
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (same here, Cindy )
[9:40] Kedwyn Parmelee: grrrrr
[9:40] Sonja Strom wonders that too…
[9:40] Symo Kurka: well you see in european countries referenda are very common, but not so in Us i suppose
[9:40] Sonja Strom: Please, I am not finished,
[9:41] Sonja Strom: The factions the citizens vote on do all have platforms stating their views and intentions,
[9:41] Sonja Strom: and the citizens rank their preference among these when voting.
[9:41] Sonja Strom: But,
[9:42] Sonja Strom: often the platforms do not speak directly to one decision in particular,
[9:42] Sonja Strom: but are generalistic in nature.
[9:42] Sonja Strom: There are also issues upon which the platforms of all parties agree,
[9:42] Sonja Strom: leaving no alternative choice at all to the citizens when they are voting for factions.
[9:42] Sonja Strom: The CDS Forum does have a poll feature,
[9:43] Sonja Strom: which can be helpful and informative,
[9:43] Sonja Strom: but not all of the CDS citizens read the forum discussions,
[9:43] Sonja Strom: or participate there.
[9:44] Sonja Strom: In addition, there are also non-citizens and former citizens who have the same access to the Forum as the current citizens do.
[9:44] Sonja Strom: During the term I was last in the RA,
[9:44] Sonja Strom: I put a lot of work into allowing the community to have Referendum voting.
[9:45] Sonja Strom: Recently I described this in the Forum here:
[9:45] Sonja Strom: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1667&start=15#p13012
[9:45] Sonja Strom: At that time, it seemed to me such a bill was actually unneccessary,
[9:46] Sonja Strom: because I thought the RA could always choose among itself to direct such a question to the ballot for the citizens to vote on.
[9:46] Sonja Strom: But in talking with everybody,
[9:46] Sonja Strom: it became clear there would need to be some structure in place
[9:46] Sonja Strom: in order for it to really work.
[9:47] Sonja Strom: If there were a structure, it would need to be defined in the laws of the CDS.
[9:47] Sonja Strom: The law I first came up with would have been very simple,
[9:47] Sonja Strom: trying to keep it as simple as possible.
[9:47] Sonja Strom: All it would do was say the RA could direct a Referendum question to the citizens.
[9:48] Sonja Strom: That was seen as too simple by a lot of people,
[9:48] Sonja Strom: and I included input from all 4 factions at that time.
[9:48] Sonja Strom: We arrived at this wording, which we voted on:
[9:48] Sonja Strom: “At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a referendum question on the next previously scheduled ballot with a simple majority vote. There shall not be more than one referendum per RA term. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[9:49] Sonja Strom: Then this bill received only the support of the DPU,
[9:49] Sonja Strom: and it failed to come into law.
[9:49] Sonja Strom: I would like to continue work on this issue,
[9:50] Sonja Strom: and ask for your understanding and assistance in an effort to create a Referendum system in the CDS.
[9:50] Sonja Strom: Personally, I would like to start by changing the wording of the bill I introduced previously, a year ago,
[9:50] Sonja Strom: by removing the sentance that says “There shall not be more than one referendum per RA term,” as to me this seems like an unneccessary limitation.
[9:51] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[9:51] Symo Kurka: Good
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks, Sonja!
[9:51] Symo Kurka: Anybody proposes any amandment/ different wording to Sonja’s proposal?
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* If I remember correctly,
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the reason we voted against it,
[9:52] Pip Torok: one point: I suggest there be some limit to the number of referenda … otherwise certain terns will be swamped by Refs
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: was because we wished to have the whole electoral processes finished first
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we didn’t even start… so…
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[9:52] Sonja Strom: lol
[9:52] Pip Torok: i propose change from “one” to “two” to sonja’s original wording
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I guess that objection would be dropped now
[9:53] Sonja Strom:
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with a ‘limit’, even if it’s not ‘a limit of one’
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Pip’s idea might be what we choose.
[9:53] Pip Torok: it ewould concentrate peoples minds …
[9:53] Sonja Strom: I would like to say one thing about that though
[9:54] Sonja Strom: With this bill, the only way a Referendum question would get on the ballot is if the RA voted to put it there.
[9:54] Sonja Strom: So if there were a lot of Referendum questions on one ballot, it would be because the RA said it wanted them to be there.
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, ‘one’ Referendum doesn’t mean ‘one question’
[9:55] Sonja Strom: Gwyn, right –
[9:55] Symo Kurka: So do we wish to proceed to voting??
[9:55] Pip Torok: on what motion?
[9:55] Sonja Strom: that is a point we might want to make really clear in the wording of the bill.
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja’s amended by Pip’s suggestion to ‘two’ referenda per term?
[9:56] Sonja Strom: My intention was always to only have any Referendum questions be on the ballot for the next general election.
[9:56] Symo Kurka: Ok then i propose Gwyn and Sonja come back to next RA with a shared wording
[9:56] Pip Torok: im happy to proceed on G’s basis
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not me,
[9:56] Sonja Strom: Symo, let’s just talk about this here.
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pip’s suggestion
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:56] Sonja Strom: I don’t think there is a major issue to reach a compromise on.
[9:57] Sonja Strom: I just want the RA to talk about it.
[9:57] Pip Torok: well imo recourse to Referenda is a good idea
[9:57] Symo Kurka: Aaaah.. is there a vote proposal? What is your final Bill wording Sonja ?
[9:57] Pip Torok: do we agree?
[9:58] Sonja Strom: I can restate how I think the bill should read,
[9:58] Sonja Strom: and we can start with that.
[9:58] Symo Kurka: OK
[9:58] Symo Kurka: now or next RA?
[9:58] Sonja Strom: “At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a referendum question on the next previously scheduled ballot with a simple majority vote. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[9:58] Moon Adamant: hello everyone
[9:58] Sonja Strom: Why the next RA?
[9:58] Symo Kurka: Ok
[9:58] Sonja Strom: We are discussing this issue, or?
[9:58] Symo Kurka: did’nt understand
[9:59] Sonja Strom: OK, I have stated what bill I think we could vote on.
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so… is Pip’s proposal to change “one” to “two” still on the floor?
[9:59] Sonja Strom: Does anyone want to make an amendment to this statement?
[9:59] Sonja Strom: Pip, would you like to propose that?
[10:00] Sonja Strom: As wording I mean.
[10:00] Pip Torok: yes i propose that the sentence of twicwe per term be incorportated
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: with Sonja’s proposed wording,
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: how would that fit?
[10:00] Pip Torok: yes
[10:00] Symo Kurka: “At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a maximum of two referendum question per term on the next previously scheduled ballot with a simple majority vote. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ahhhh wait
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so that’s two questions per referendum, but one referendum per term?
[10:01] Pip Torok: small drafting change … question to questions
[10:01] Symo Kurka: No two ref
[10:01] Symo Kurka: Lol
[10:01] Pip Torok: two refs i meant ..
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “may place a maximum of two referendum question per term on the next previously scheduled ballot ” … since usually there is just one ballot per term…
[10:02] Symo Kurka: “At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a maximum of two referendum per term on the next previously scheduled ballot with a simple majority vote. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[10:02] Pip Torok: agree with g
[10:02] Sonja Strom: Pip, would you state how you would like the bill to read?
[10:03] Symo Kurka: Yes Pip sorry, i was just tryin to help
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head* I just want that it isn’t ambigious, God knows how many ambiguous laws we already have…
[10:03] Pip Torok: yes At its discretion, the Representative Assembly
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: ?
[10:04] Pip Torok: may place a maximum of two Referenda per term on the next previously
[10:04] Pip Torok: schduled ballot with a simple majority vote.
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol thinks we don’t need both “At its discretion” and “with a simple majority vote.” The latter will suffice
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: is this what you mean, Pip: “At its discretion, the Representative Assembly may place a maximum of two referenda per term, with an unlimited number of questions each, with a simple majority vote. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[10:05] Sonja Strom agrees with Cindy
[10:05] Pip Torok: The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding,
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Agees with Cindy too. It’s redundant really, the RA is sovereign
[10:05] Symo Kurka: ….live cooperative writing ..
[10:05] Pip Torok: but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Representative Assembly may place a maximum of two referenda per term, with an unlimited number of questions each. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[10:06] Symo Kurka: Thanks Gwyn sounds perfect
[10:06] Sonja Strom: Thanks Gwyn, and Cindy.
[10:06] Symo Kurka: Shall we move to vote?
[10:06] Symo Kurka: Approval of the Rewferendum bill as rewritten in last version
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it’s just that “at the next ballot” implies during the term elections, and doing two different referenda *at the same time* is confusing, if you can do multiple questions anyway
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well
[10:07] Sonja Strom: Good point Gwyn!
[10:07] Pip Torok: agree
[10:07] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d actually limit the number of questions
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. five at most or so
[10:07] Cindy Ecksol: yes, a referendum is generally ONE question
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well depends, Cindy
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: iRL I’ve often voted on two- and three-question referenda.
[10:07] Kedwyn Parmelee: why did you leave out the phrase about “simple majority” vote needed?
[10:08] Sonja Strom: In Switzerland sometimes there are more referendum questions on a ballot than all of the others.
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Kedwyn, all decisions by the RA, by default, are by simple majority.
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not only in Switzerland, Sonja
[10:08] Kedwyn Parmelee: ah ok redundant
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes Kedwyn!)
[10:09] Symo Kurka: Gwyn please can we vote on your text?
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: let’s see a scenario for multiple questions: e.g. we wish a new sim. The questions could be: 1) Do you want a new sim? 2) Should it be named ‘Eureka’? 3) Should it be Greek-themed? 4) Should it be annexed to Locus Amoenus?
[10:09] Sonja Strom: When we are talking about two referendum questions,
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so multiple questions for the same theme do make sense.
[10:10] Sonja Strom: do we mean allowing for a separate vote outside of the next election,
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (yes, Sonja, thus my removal of ‘the enxt ballot’)
[10:10] Sonja Strom: or is it allowing not more than two questions for each election.
[10:10] Sonja Strom: ok
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The way Pip wrote it it could be either;
[10:10] Sonja Strom: I agree.
[10:11] Sonja Strom: It is difficult to make simple and clear.
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suggested making it clear: two referenda (and thus not tied to the term elections) with multiple questions
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it is
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: actually…
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d like to suggest a slightly different wording!
[10:11] Sonja Strom: OK
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry to annoy you)
[10:11] Pip Torok: (lol)
[10:11] Sonja Strom: lol
[10:12] Sonja Strom: I just want the citizens to be able to vote on major issues effecting their community –
[10:12] Sonja Strom: to have a voice.
[10:12] Sonja Strom: How that is accomplished in exact wording is not something I am concerned about.
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Representative Assembly may place a maximum of one referendum per term, on a specific theme or subject, with up to five questions, to be voted at the next previously scheduled ballot. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Here’s the reason:
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – for technical reasons,
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: ah, sonja! Be careful what you put in writing in front of the RA — you may GET it!!!
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jon’s system already provides for referendum voting
[10:13] Sonja Strom: LOL
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: during the regular elections.
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hehe Cindy)
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and – the questions should be limited to a theme,
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but not a single question
[10:13] Sonja Strom thinks about how she may have started a whole new bunch of conversations….
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn *slaps her forehead*
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: it should also say: “that can be unambigously answered with ‘aye’ or ‘nay’”
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Attempt #3….
[10:14] Pip Torok: agree
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:14] Sonja Strom: Gwyn, I think by its nature a Referendum question would be a Yes/No question.
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol now understands why Symo included only this one item on today’s agenda!!
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “The Representative Assembly may place a maximum of one referendum per term, on a specific theme or subject, with up to five questions, that can be unambigously answered with ‘aye’ or ‘nay’, to be voted at the next previously scheduled ballot. The results of a referendum vote shall not be considered legally binding, but only advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens.”
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja, possibly, but… better safe than sorry!
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Symo is wise.
[10:15] Symo Kurka: ?
[10:15] Sonja Strom thinks about how Cindy should have seen the discussions about this issue the last term she was in the RA too…
[10:15] Symo Kurka: me?
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (for just having one discussion)
[10:16] Symo Kurka: Are we finished with wording?
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn withdraws her previous suggestions and just places a motion to vote on the wording as under ‘attempt #3’
[10:16] Sonja Strom: Sorry Gwyn, but that wording seems unnecessarily complex to me.
[10:16] Symo Kurka: Lol
[10:16] Sonja Strom: lol
[10:16] Kedwyn Parmelee: so back to only one referendum now?
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But hopefully unambiguous, Sonja
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: kedwyn — for technical reasons really — the voting machine can already deal with a referendum per term during the regular RAelections
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we don’t know if we can change it to do multiple referenda per term.
[10:17] Sonja Strom: For one thing, to me a Referendum Question is one question —
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I know, I know… this is subverting law to code
[10:17] Pip Torok: yes .. but election-times are special cases, no?
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sonja, yes, but not for me
[10:17] Kedwyn Parmelee: well multiple questions probably covers issues anyway
[10:17] Sonja Strom: there could be multiple questions on one topic.
[10:18] Symo Kurka: SORRY TO INTERRUPT YOU
[10:18] Symo Kurka raises hand
[10:18] Sonja Strom: ok Symo
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If you wish, Sonja, you could place the explanation on a preamble, and make a simpler law, so long as everybody knows how to interpret it.
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry SymO!!
[10:18] Symo Kurka: I have to leave in five minutes and i’ll ask Cindy to follow as deputy LRA
[10:18] Symo Kurka: but first i have to make a short announcment
[10:19] Symo Kurka: I am resigning from Simplicity Party and RA: next 29th March I will perform for the last time in RA.
[10:19] Symo Kurka: I announce this with wide anticipation to allow everybody here to organize in due time a soft transition.
[10:19] Symo Kurka: I made this choice for personal reasons so please do not ask why.
[10:19] Symo Kurka: I’ll be here the 29th to answer operational questions (if any) from new LRA and to cheer you all.
[10:19] Symo Kurka: Ok
[10:19] Symo Kurka: done
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Referendum Act – Preamble: A Referendum Question can be seen as a set of up to five questions, to be unambiguously answered ‘aye’ or ‘nay’, and posed to all citizens. aww
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oops
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:20] Symo Kurka: Now Cindy please follow this Honourable
[10:24] Sonja Strom: I think that wording is brilliant.
[10:24] Sonja Strom: Thanks Gwyn!
[10:24] Cindy Ecksol: *whew*
[10:24] Pip Torok: and me!
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t… I would probably tweak it even further…
[10:24] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:24] Sonja Strom: We can do that…
[10:24] Cindy Ecksol: ok, gwyn, what would you like to change?
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh “Each Referendum Question” instead of just “Each Referendum”, so to capture Sonja’s concept that we’re talking about “a Referendum Question” even if it has several questions
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but I guess I’m just fighting with words really
[10:26] Sonja Strom: I agree with that.
[10:26] Cindy Ecksol: ok.
[10:26] Sonja Strom: I think it is good for it to be clear.
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: What is better English: ” which shall be not legally binding” or “which shall not be legally binding”
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ?
[10:26] Pip Torok: the second imo
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Pip
[10:26] Cindy Ecksol nods
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, so I’d add that change too.
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: #6…
[10:27] Cindy Ecksol: ok, gwyn, can you please restate your proposal with the two changes?
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Referendum Act – Preamble: A Referendum Question can be seen as a set of up to five questions, to be unambiguously answered ‘aye’ or ‘nay’, and posed to all citizens. Each Referendum Question addresses a specific topic, subject, or theme, and is advisory to the government as to the wishes of the citizens. Thus the RA determines: “The Representative Assembly may place a maximum of one referendum per term, to be voted at the next previously scheduled ballot, which shall not be legally binding.”
[10:27] Cindy Ecksol: thank you. do we have a second?
[10:27] Sonja Strom: Second
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
[10:28] Sonja Strom: Thanks Gwyn!
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[10:28] Cindy Ecksol: any further discussion on the merits?
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *covers her mouth*
[10:28] Cindy Ecksol: no, gwyn, no need to cover your mouth
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[10:28] Cindy Ecksol: if you have something to say (pro or con) please do
[10:28] Sonja Strom: *g*
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh … actually, no, I think I’m *finally* happy
[10:28] Cindy Ecksol: or forever hold your peace
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* I’ll hold my peace
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: ok, I move to close the discussion
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: seconded…
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor of closing discussion?
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye.
[10:29] Pip Torok: aye
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:29] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: discussion is closed.
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: I call for a vote on the proposal. Gwyn’s #6
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
[10:30] Pip Torok: aye
[10:30] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: motion carries.
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: congratulatons sonja!
[10:30] Sonja Strom:
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: very good congrats Sonja
[10:30] Pip Torok: add my congrats too!
[10:30] Sonja Strom raises her arms in victory!!
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: all right, next on the agenda…
[10:31] Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody!!
[10:31] Cindy Ecksol: open time for proposals
[10:31] Sonja Strom: And especially to Gwyneth for helping so much with the wording.
[10:31] Delia Lake: one more victory for virtual democracy
[10:31] Sonja Strom:
[10:31] Cindy Ecksol: symo idd not leave me a list of who wished to speak
[10:31] Cindy Ecksol: is there anyone?
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mind you, since this bill doesn’t really change any powers of the RA, but is more like a self-regulation thing (e.g. “ask your citizens what they wish”) it doesn’t require a Constitutional Change, but I’m sure the SC will review that
[10:31] Solomon Mosely: raises hand
[10:32] Cindy Ecksol: ok, solomon, please
[10:32] Cindy Ecksol: you have the floor
[10:32] Solomon Mosely: the symo thing seemed to pop up and disapear quickly there, what does this mean exactly? do you take over as lra after the 29th?
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: ummm….no, not as far as I know….
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: I am just the “assistant LRA” to fill in when Symo is not available
[10:33] Pip Torok: its been sprung on us all, sol
[10:33] Solomon Mosely: then i think that should be dealt with now, so we can debate at length over the next couople weeks
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: if Symo resigns, Simplicity will have to decide how to deal with it.
[10:33] Solomon Mosely: is there legistation for this?
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: but I must have been out of SL if he said anything about the 29th, so you’ll have to fill me in…
[10:34] Cindy Ecksol: what did I miss?
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, exactly: probably nominating someone else for Symo’s vacant seat.
[10:34] Solomon Mosely: i thought he did
[10:34] Solomon Mosely: i thought he said that was his last day as ra, didnt he?
[10:34] Solomon Mosely: lra*
[10:34] Cindy Ecksol: Solomon, there are procedures for filling an empty seat. we will follow them.
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Symo will be unavailable until the 29th but he’ll be back to help out the new LRA if there are some pending issues)
[10:35] Pip Torok: does anyone know whether S will be out of SL altogether?
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and yes, Sol, I took it as a resignation from LRA, RA, and SP.
[10:35] Cindy Ecksol: all right, that’s a matter for Simplicity to deal with….so we will read the transcript, have a meeting, and decide who will fill Symo’s seat
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:35] Cindy Ecksol: and also who will be LRA in Symo’s absence
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh you unless the RA votes otherwise.
[10:36] Sonja Strom: Right
[10:36] Solomon Mosely: right, but this just isnt dealt with an empty ra seat, is it?
[10:36] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, yes, Sol, now it’s a bit easier to deal with.
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s a SP seat left vacant, so the SP will replace it — or not.
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If not, we’ll have partial elections
[10:36] Cindy Ecksol: technically the person with the second highest vote total in Simplicity would be LRA.
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Cindy
[10:37] Solomon Mosely: right, would it just fall to the next sp member to recieve the highest votes in the last election?
[10:37] Solomon Mosely: lol, k
[10:37] Cindy Ecksol: but of course Simplicity could change who fills those seats….
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Sol, exactly
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:37] Cindy Ecksol: I did not stand in the election so technically I got ZERO votes…
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[10:37] Cindy Ecksol: but if the second-highest vote-getter says “no” to LRA, that would leave me
[10:38] Cindy Ecksol: or whomever Simplicity appoints to the empty seat, right Gwyn?
[10:38] Sonja Strom: That is my understanding, yes.
[10:38] Cindy Ecksol: but there ARE procedures, so we will deal with it appropriatelly outside of RA.
[10:38] Cindy Ecksol: Thank you solomon
[10:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2282 (so technically Soro would be the next LRA)
[10:38] Cindy Ecksol: anyone else who wishes to speak?
[10:38] Cindy Ecksol: Arria?
[10:39] Pip Torok: only on a non-RA matter …
[10:39] Cindy Ecksol: ok, pip, you have the floor
[10:40] Pip Torok: right … i had a birthday paty yesterday and have decided to continue it tonight at Arpar del Pip … all present are invited …
[10:40] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:40] Sonja Strom:
[10:40] Cindy Ecksol: thank you pip.
[10:40] Arria Perreault: I am ready
[10:40] Cindy Ecksol: arria?
[10:40] Cindy Ecksol: you have the floor
[10:40] Pip Torok: pluas symo if hes listening!
[10:40] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:40] Sonja Strom wishes Pip a happy birthday, on behalf of the Representative Assembly and the CDS!
[10:40] Pip Torok: thank you!
[10:41] Arria Perreault: I was thinking that the GMP was a priority of this term
[10:41] Cindy Ecksol: ok, folks, arria has th efloor
[10:41] Arria Perreault: but I did not hear from any workgroup, proposals and other ways to give a constructive input
[10:42] Cindy Ecksol: sorry arria….I think we lost the first part of that before the “but”
[10:42] Sonja Strom: [10:41] Arria Perreault: I was thinking that the GMP was a priority of this term
[10:42] Arria Perreault: I wI would like to know where we are, who is currently working on the GMP ?
[10:42] Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok
[10:42] Moon Adamant: i can answer that
[10:42] Cindy Ecksol: Arria, at the last RA meeting I reported on behalf of Gwyn an dI
[10:42] Cindy Ecksol: (just a sec moon)
[10:43] Cindy Ecksol: and we opened a discussion on the GMP process out on the forums
[10:43] Arria Perreault: and I would like to know how I can be involved in this precess and if I have a chance to integrate my current and pending proposal for the Monastery
[10:43] Cindy Ecksol: I have been disappointed that so few people have engaged in that discussion. would like to have much more input before constructing a bill.
[10:43] Arria Perreault: I did
[10:43] Arria Perreault: and Timo did
[10:44] Cindy Ecksol: yes, you and Timo did — but I would like MORE involvement
[10:44] Cindy Ecksol: much broader.
[10:44] Arria Perreault: and I was interested to participate to the GMP process, I think
[10:44] Cindy Ecksol: now…the development of GMP is a WHOLE OTHER PROCESS
[10:44] Cindy Ecksol: i.e. the CONTENT of the GMP — Gwyn and I did not mean our discussion to be about that.
[10:44] Sonja Strom: I’ve been thinking about it – the apparent complexity of it overwhelms me a little bit.
[10:44] Arria Perreault: at least the interested people could be invited to a meeting or to a workgroup
[10:45] Moon Adamant raiases her hand
[10:45] Cindy Ecksol: but I think Moon can speak for the New Guild. Moon can you fill us in on what’s going on with the GMP content?
[10:45] Sonja Strom: I haven’t wanted to say much until I felt I understood it better.
[10:45] Moon Adamant: yes,thanks
[10:45] Moon Adamant: first of all, and in reply to you Cindy
[10:45] Moon Adamant: i do agree, there are two dimensions about the GMp plan
[10:46] Moon Adamant: one is the technical dimension – what the GMP is – and the other is the political dimension – the validity and enforcement of the GMP
[10:46] Cindy Ecksol nods in agreement
[10:46] Moon Adamant: as for the technical dimension, i am currently sketching the basis for public discussion
[10:46] Moon Adamant: these basis comprise: cluster themes, orography, densities, and transportation
[10:47] Moon Adamant: as well as a compilation of CDS sim data to this point
[10:47] Moon Adamant: they will be ready for publication soon, i hope
[10:47] Cindy Ecksol: excellent!
[10:47] Cindy Ecksol: and I assume that you have (or will have) some kind of workgroup on this Moon?
[10:47] Moon Adamant: and i will be most glad to hold then the public exhibit and discussion of detail points
[10:47] Solomon Mosely: wasnt all that covered already in the maps ive seen on the forums?
[10:48] Moon Adamant: will in the future
[10:48] Moon Adamant: no, Solomon, that was the older version of the masterplan
[10:48] Moon Adamant: which didn’t respond to some concerns that have since been expressed by some groups
[10:48] Solomon Mosely: i see, it was never finally agreed upon then, ok
[10:48] Cindy Ecksol: oh, no, solomon — the current GMP is in force.
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* indeed….
[10:49] Cindy Ecksol: but what Gwyn and i are interested in is a process for UPDATING the GMP on a regular basis
[10:49] Moon Adamant: such as the creation of a higher moutain, possible inclusion of a Al- Andaluz cluster, inclusion of a Monastery sim
[10:49] Arria Perreault: can someone give me the transcript of what I have misssed
[10:49] Cindy Ecksol: yes….all the technical details, the CONTENT of the GMP
[10:49] Moon Adamant: the GMP is a document that needs frequent revisions, you see
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: the discussion on the foru that I started is about how we want the GMP to be APPLIED to the community on an ongoing basis
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … and constant overseeing…
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, exactly.
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: that’s the “political” aspect
[10:50] Moon Adamant: indeed, it’s important
[10:51] Cindy Ecksol: Arria? does that address your question?
[10:52] Arria Perreault: I would like to know if and how I can be involved? (Arria or any interested CDS citizen)
[10:52] Moon Adamant: well, Arria
[10:52] Moon Adamant: as i said
[10:52] Arria Perreault: I think that this technical work has a part of content
[10:52] Moon Adamant: in the technical debate, let me finish the sketch first of all, so we can discuss over something
[10:53] Moon Adamant: yes, it has – the minimal content for our territory to be consistent
[10:53] Arria Perreault: but talking when soemthing is already on the table is a constraint
[10:53] Moon Adamant: such as mandatory roads, etc
[10:53] Moon Adamant: no, not at all
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: and for the political aspect, I encourage you (and everyone else) to continue to participate in the forum threads that I started.
[10:53] Arria Perreault: and there are an infinitiy of ways to do it
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: I’ll note that one of them (the role of the Guild) is completely empty right now….and definitely needs some focus!
[10:54] Moon Adamant: not exactly, since the sims we already have constrain the number of possibilities
[10:54] Arria Perreault: I want to participate to the technical work
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So mmh that will be a role of the Guild…
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: yes, I think so.
[10:54] Moon Adamant: i will try to have the sketches ready this week for publication and will convene the workgroup next week
[10:54] Arria Perreault: it seems that a work is already in preparation
[10:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: at least, it has been so far…
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: Moon, I assume that when you’re ready to start a workgroup you will announce to the Guild?
[10:55] Moon Adamant: yes, of course
[10:55] Solomon Mosely: im sorry, one last question….
[10:55] Moon Adamant: the thing atm is that the GMP on its current sketch has 52 sims
[10:55] Cindy Ecksol: ok, so Arria and everyone else — keep an eye on the forum for moon’s announcement
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:55] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:55] Moon Adamant: and if a base is not defined, it may happen that the discussion is held endlessly
[10:56] Cindy Ecksol: by the way, I’ll note that Arria’s confusion about this is in part because there is no one in either the exec or RA responsible for “moving the GMP along”
[10:56] Cindy Ecksol: in other words, right now it has no real champion in government.
[10:56] Arria Perreault: yes, but the risk is that people will ask so many changes that you wll to do it again
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, good point, Cindy.
[10:56] Cindy Ecksol: no political process.
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn totally agrees.
[10:56] Cindy Ecksol: this is what the forum discussion is about, so if you are interested, please follow and join in.
[10:56] Arria Perreault: I did
[10:57] Cindy Ecksol: it IS a complex issue (as Gwyn and I discovered when we started to look at it)
[10:57] Cindy Ecksol: but I think we have broken it down in a way that keeps us focused so that we can come to some conclusions about what political processes we might need and how best to put them in place
[10:57] Cindy Ecksol: ok, thanks arria and moon
[10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh* yes… mostly because the question of the role of the Guild as a NGO — should a document created by a NGO have ‘the force of law’? It’s a serious precedent.
[10:57] Cindy Ecksol: anyone else?
[10:58] Solomon Mosely: raises hand
[10:58] Cindy Ecksol: solomon? you have the floor
[10:58] Sonja Strom: Thank you for this work, Moon
[10:58] Solomon Mosely: are we reviewing it now for regular maintenance or for a specific propsed expansion at this time?
[10:58] Moon Adamant: thank you all, i have to go and prepare the Guild meeting
[10:58] Cindy Ecksol: ah, good question solomon!
[10:58] Moon Adamant: ok
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good question…. I don’t know if we have an answer
[10:58] Moon Adamant: both
[10:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (see you in a bit, Moon)
[10:59] Cindy Ecksol: well….yes, I think we do
[10:59] Moon Adamant: we are introducing Locus Amoenus data
[10:59] Solomon Mosely: then why is the gmp being reviewed if we have no goal with it at the moment?
[10:59] Solomon Mosely: ok
[10:59] Moon Adamant: and we are preparing new ways to expand to address the desire of several groups of people
[10:59] Cindy Ecksol: because it is a GENERAL document, must be always up to date
[10:59] Moon Adamant: now i must go
[10:59] Cindy Ecksol: and I need to go too…
[11:00] Cindy Ecksol: but before I do, Solomn, let me say that we certainly should be looking at a new sim right now
[11:00] Cindy Ecksol: as Rose commented on the forum recently, we are out of space to sell
[11:00] Cindy Ecksol: so if you hae ideas…..bring them forward, please!
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so the main reason seems to be: the New Guild is reviewing the GMP because a) it has to be kept up to date; b) citizens wish changes to it, and the NG is the appropriate place to discuss and incroporate those changes?
[11:00] Pip Torok torn between NGO and party! (a trap of hos own making)
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:00] Cindy Ecksol: for now, yes Gwyn.
[11:01] Cindy Ecksol: adding a new sim is a separate process
[11:01] Cindy Ecksol: and we SHOULD be doing that.
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh yes, it is!
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[11:01] Cindy Ecksol: hopefully somone will propose for discussion at the next RA meeting and we can go from there.
[11:01] Solomon Mosely: ok, i just missed what the current goal was exactly
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:01] Cindy Ecksol: two separate issues, solomon.
[11:01] Solomon Mosely: gotcha
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mm hmm
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: we can work on long-term and short term simultaneously
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (hopefully!)
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: ok, if no other issues, i’d like to thank everyone for thier time
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: move to adjourn
[11:02] Pip Torok: seconded
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: all in favor?
[11:02] Sonja Strom: aye
[11:02] Pip Torok: aye
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: at least for short-term, the RA and the Chancellor have two reasonably detailed procedures: NL 8-2 and 8-4 (even if they have slight inconsistencies); so we know how to proceed
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[11:02] Cindy Ecksol: thanks!RA Meeting 29 March 2009
by Gwyneth Llewelyn » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:32 am
[8:58] Cindy Ecksol: kk
[8:58] Cindy Ecksol: didn’t think to get it back from him….
[8:58] Cindy Ecksol: hi gwyn.
[8:58] Soro Dagostino: Ahhh
[8:58] Cindy Ecksol: do you happen to have a recorder you could give me?
[8:58] Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwyn
[8:59] Justice Soothsayer: try this one, Cindy. Not the usual one I use, though.
[8:59] Pip Torok: hi Soro!
[9:00] Cindy Ecksol: hmmmm….didn
[9:00] Cindy Ecksol: didn’t rez!
[9:00] Cindy Ecksol: but not in my inventory….
[9:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi all (and sorry)
[9:00] Moon Adamant: brb
[9:00] Pip Torok: when youv rezzed … HI!!!
[9:00] Cindy Ecksol: sorry?
[9:00] Agenda giver: Hello, Brian Livingston
[9:00] Soro Dagostino: Its Brian
[9:00] Agenda giver: Hello, Justice Soothsayer
[9:00] Pip Torok: hi G J B
[9:00] Soro Dagostino: Hihi
[9:01] Cindy Ecksol: oh,,,,,
[9:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … for not answering hehe
[9:01] Brian Livingston: Hi all.
[9:01] Cindy Ecksol: so DO you have a recorder? this box is empty….
[9:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow the chat lag is impossible!
[9:01] Cindy Ecksol: loading lag in general is bad this morning…
[9:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ã‹¡
[9:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn tried to rezz a chat logger — no luck though!
[9:02] Agenda giver: Hello, Pip Torok
[9:02] Cindy Ecksol: give it a minute….VERY slow….
[9:02] Cindy Ecksol: took at least a minute to rez that box….
[9:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (oh, I hadn’t noticed that we have the anthem on the wall!!)
[9:02] Soro Dagostino: Hello Sonja
[9:02] Brian Livingston: Y’know, I had sorta foggten how nice it is to walk to your destinatio nas opposed to TPing.
[9:02] Agenda giver: Hello, Gwyneth Llewelyn
[9:02] Moon Adamant: back
[9:02] Cindy Ecksol: I didn’t do it!!!
[9:03] Sonja Strom: hi everybody
[9:03] Moon Adamant: ok, sorry if i’ll sit on anyone’s lap….
[9:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi hi
[9:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:03] Cindy Ecksol: mmmm, especially in spring
[9:03] Brian Livingston misses the telehub days of LL, except for the laggy av-trapping bling malls
[9:03] Brian Livingston: er, SL
[9:03] Cindy Ecksol: ok, I think we have a quorum.
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: please touch the ball on the floor for an agenda
[9:04] Soro Dagostino: Hello Rose.
[9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[9:04] Agenda giver: Hello, Moon Adamant
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[9:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not sure that my chat logger works at all
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: all right, then please indicate your consent to be recorded in chat
[9:05] Sonja Strom: I consent
[9:05] Moon Adamant: i consent to be recorded
[9:05] Cindy Ecksol: we will take the log from chat.
[9:05] Justice Soothsayer consents
[9:05] Soro Dagostino: I consent
[9:05] Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn, what HAVE you done????
[9:05] Brian Livingston: Sure, log away
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have no idea, what did I do??
[9:05] Rose Springvale: consents (and wishes cindy happy birthday
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I consent to be logged….
[9:05] Cindy Ecksol:
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (oh, happy birdthday too, Cindy!!)
[9:05] Cindy Ecksol: thanks!
[9:05] Moon Adamant: happy birsthday, Cindy!
[9:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (even a properly spelled one)
[9:05] Brian Livingston: Woo, happy birthday!
[9:06] Sonja Strom: Happy Birthday!
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: Happy BD Cindy.
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: WOOT!
[9:06] Rose Springvale: and Solomon yesterday!
[9:06] Pip Torok: HAPPY BIRTHDAT Cindy!!!!
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: happy birthday solomon!
[9:06] Solomon Mosely: ) thanks
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: and thanks to rose for remembering and letting the cat out of th ebag
[9:06] Moon Adamant: Happy Birthday Solomon!
[9:06] Rose Springvale: hey, what are friends for!?
[9:06] Moon Adamant: hmmm…. Aries….
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: happy birthday too, Solomon!
[9:06] Rose Springvale:
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:06] Solomon Mosely: yea, i was just thinking that lol
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Rose
[9:06] Pip Torok: ah … happy Birthday Sol!
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: I think we have consent from everyone
[9:07] Soro Dagostino: Happy Birthday Sol.
[9:07] Solomon Mosely: thank you
[9:07] Brian Livingston issues a blanket happy birthday/anniversary/new baby/ business opening greeting applicable for 30 days, starting retroactively two days ago and lasting for a period not extending past 30 days
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: rofl Bri
[9:07] Cindy Ecksol: if you don’t have an agenda, please look now.
[9:07] Moon Adamant: lol
[9:07] Sonja Strom: lol
[9:07] Rose Springvale: rofl
[9:07] Justice Soothsayer: lol. sounds like BRian went to law school.
[9:07] Agenda giver: Hello, Rose Springvale
[9:07] Agenda giver: Hello, Soro Dagostino
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice: ã‹¡
[9:07] Sonja Strom: yeah — or marketing school
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aha, the agenda works!
[9:07] Cindy Ecksol: in light of recent developments I’d like to make a small change to the top of the agenda
[9:08] Cindy Ecksol: of COURSE it works, Gwyn– I programmed it!
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-oh …
[9:08] Agenda giver: Hello, Pip Torok
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[9:08] Agenda giver: Hello, Solomon Mosely
[9:08] Cindy Ecksol: The small change is to note that in light of Symo’s resignation from RA, Simplicity Party met this week and appointed Brian Livingston to fill Symo’s empty seat
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh
[9:09] Soro Dagostino: Yay!!!
[9:09] Justice Soothsayer: congrats Brian
[9:09] Cindy Ecksol: So we need for swear Brian in.
[9:09] Pip Torok: welcome Brian!
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hooray, and welcome Brian!
[9:09] Rose Springvale: yay, brian!
[9:09] Moon Adamant: congrats Brian
[9:09] Soro Dagostino: Welcome back.
[9:09] Brian Livingston: Ahem… ****, I hve sworn myself in
[9:09] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: how irregular!
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:09] Cindy Ecksol: well, if I could find that notecard with the words on it I’d give it to you….
[9:09] Brian Livingston: I migth have it from last time
[9:10] Cindy Ecksol: can’t remember whta I called it
[9:10] Rose Springvale: “oath?”
[9:10] Cindy Ecksol: that’s what I thought…but no
[9:10] Brian Livingston: Hmm, I have the oath o the lollipop guild apparently…
[9:10] Justice Soothsayer: here it is
[9:10] Brian Livingston accepted your inventory offer.
[9:10] Cindy Ecksol: ah, “Affirmation!”
[9:10] Cindy Ecksol: thx, justice
[9:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
[9:10] Justice Soothsayer: yw
[9:11] Brian Livingston: Aah, thanks all
[9:11] Cindy Ecksol: ok.
[9:11] Cindy Ecksol: so can we consider Brian properly installed?
[9:11] Soro Dagostino: So move.
[9:12] Cindy Ecksol: second?
[9:12] Justice Soothsayer: After Brian repeats the Affirmation, he’ll be official.
[9:12] Cindy Ecksol: Brian, can you please repeat the affirmation?
[9:12] Brian Livingston: I, Brian Livingston, having been appointed as a Member of the Representative Assembly of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, do solemnly affirm that I will faithfully discharge my duties as such to the best of my ability, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the Confederation of Democratic Simulators, and that I will preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the Confederation of Democratic Simulators.
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hooray
[9:12] Cindy Ecksol: excellent!
[9:12] Moon Adamant applauds
[9:12] Sonja Strom claps!
[9:12] Cindy Ecksol: ok, second minor addition to the agenda
[9:12] Soro Dagostino: Yay!
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: You’re pushing it, Cindy …
[9:12] Cindy Ecksol: SP also discussed the LRA role.
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[9:13] Cindy Ecksol: since Symo is now the leading vote-getter for SP in the last election, he has agreed to take on the role of LRA.
[9:13] Pip Torok claps
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Symo…?
[9:13] Rose Springvale: soro
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or Brian?…
[9:13] Cindy Ecksol: sorry — sorry
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Soro!
[9:13] Cindy Ecksol: soro
[9:13] Rose Springvale:
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn is UTTERLY confused
[9:13] Cindy Ecksol: yes….
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok…
[9:14] Moon Adamant: congrats Soro
[9:14] Justice Soothsayer: see, sigh, so…
[9:14] Rose Springvale: we need a bill for the adoption of names that are not similar!
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:14] Cindy Ecksol: so I am now going to hand over the gavel to SORO and let him continue the meeting by asking if there are any OTHER changes
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose
[9:14] Brian Livingston: Woo, congrats!
[9:14] Sonja Strom: Congratulations Soro
[9:14] Cindy Ecksol: congrats, Soro
[9:14] Rose Springvale: yay soro!
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh… congrats I guess… to someone
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[9:14] Pip Torok: congrats Soro
[9:14] Cindy Ecksol: be as nice to him as you have been to me in my short stint
[9:14] Justice Soothsayer: condolences, Soro.
[9:15] Brian Livingston: Hehe, indeed :p
[9:15] Rose Springvale: lol justice!
[9:15] Sonja Strom: lol
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AH, much more appropriate, Justice
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: I understand not many know me.
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: So I’ll be brief.
[9:15] Brian Livingston hands Soro a Fire Extinguisher and a pointy stick for keeping the meetings moving :p
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: When running meetings.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: And — so you know, in my long old age, I did become a certified parlimentarian.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Served as that for the California State Bar — conference of delegates.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: A thousand shouting lawyers.
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: And I am still alive.
[9:17] Soro Dagostino:
[9:17] Justice Soothsayer: how untraditional to have an LRA who knows parliamentary procedure
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Are there any speakers who wish to speack to the agenda?
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Or the items thereon.
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: . . . . counting.
[9:18] Soro Dagostino:
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Moving rigth along . . .
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Ok, next item.
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Is it the consensus of the body that we meet every two weeks.
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[9:20] Sonja Strom: That would be 12 meetings per term, or?
[9:20] Justice Soothsayer: We have to meet at least every 2 weeks per the constitution; we could meet more often if needed.
[9:20] Pip Torok: agree with J
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: Do you want that in the form of a motion?
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: Justice?
[9:21] Cindy Ecksol: seems reasonable unless we have too much business to be transacted in so few meetings
[9:21] Cindy Ecksol: I don’t think we need a motion — that is standing procedure
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: Ahemm . . . . Motion — then discussion
[9:21] Brian Livingston: I agree wit hCindy
[9:21] Justice Soothsayer: I agree with Cindy too
[9:21] Pip Torok: and me
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: Thats three.
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: and Cindy.
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: Consensus.
[9:22] Cindy Ecksol: yes.
[9:22] Sonja Strom: I agree too, except how will it be determined if we want to have more meetings?
[9:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, ok, I’m fine with Cindy’s proposal
[9:22] Cindy Ecksol: is that not up to LRA?
[9:22] Sonja Strom: Just talk about it and agree to hold more?
[9:22] Pip Torok: the ra puts a motion t that effect
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: The size of the agenda.
[9:23] Sonja Strom: Yes, Cindy, that is my question.
[9:23] Sonja Strom: Would the LRA make that determination?
[9:23] Cindy Ecksol: yes. so if Soro proposed today to meet next week….we would have to agree
[9:23] Brian Livingston: LRA perogative or direct request tothe LRA by a member?
[9:23] Justice Soothsayer: I believe the LRA can call a meeting if events dictate; typically we’ll set the following meeting if needed earlier than 2 weeks
[9:23] Cindy Ecksol: just as we need to agree (as it says on agenda) that next meeting is in 2 weeks
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Agenda item.
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: No vote?
[9:24] Sonja Strom: OK, I think I understand your answers.
[9:24] Cindy Ecksol: part of consent agenda?
[9:24] Sonja Strom: The LRA can decide, or if the other RA members want they can bring up the issue.
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: Its the LRA that produces the Agenda
[9:25] Sonja Strom: I am in agreement with that.
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with it too
[9:25] Cindy Ecksol: yes, I agree
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: Ok, 12 April it is.
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok!
[9:26] Sonja Strom: I have one question about that ~
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: 0900?
[9:26] Sonja Strom: it will be Easter.
[9:26] Sonja Strom: Is that ok with everybody?
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: Hmmm, I was just looking.
[9:26] Cindy Ecksol: whoops!
[9:27] Cindy Ecksol: perhaps we SHOULD do next week instead
[9:27] Brian Livingston: Erm, Ithat isn’t going to work for me
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hahaha
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: What Brian?
[9:27] Brian Livingston: Meeting on Easter, that is
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: kk
[9:27] Sonja Strom: Brian, will you be busy on that day?
[9:27] Rose Springvale: bunny’s are tired easter morning…
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And which Easter is that? Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist, Jewish, Ortodox…?
[9:27] Moon Adamant: lol Roser
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, exactly!
[9:27] Rose Springvale:
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: I propose we meet next week, Sunday at nine.
[9:28] Brian Livingston: Chocolate Egg Easter
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: Chair will entertain a motion for that.
[9:28] Pip Torok: seconded
[9:28] Sonja Strom:
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn votes aye
[9:28] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:28] Brian Livingston: aye
[9:28] Justice Soothsayer: Unfortunately, I’ll be travelling next week and can’t meet, so I’ll ask for a 7-day vote on anything that comes up for a vote.
[9:28] Sonja Strom: ok, then from there it can be on a two-week schedule unless we change it
[9:28] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: Discussion
[9:28] Justice Soothsayer: But I’ll vote aye on meeting next Sunday, just without me.
[9:28] Pip Torok: aye
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[9:29] Sonja Strom: yes
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: You vill learn!
[9:29] Soro Dagostino:
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: Chair accepts the consensus of the body, 7 day vote.
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Now, more confusing — any matters left over from prior meetings?
[9:30] Sonja Strom: I think under the RA procedures, the 7-day vote is automatically granted if requested in advance.
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Accepted.
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: Anyone?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Prior matters?
[9:32] Cindy Ecksol: flag and anthem?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Flag.
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Motion?
[9:32] Justice Soothsayer: Still waiting for a proposal from Chancellor on AA
[9:32] Cindy Ecksol:
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ah yes, good point, Justice)
[9:32] Cindy Ecksol: can’t discuss a proposal that isn’t on the table
[9:33] Cindy Ecksol: I move that we adopt the Flag Bill
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[9:33] Sonja Strom: Which is?
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: See the agenda.
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Lets take a moment to read.
[9:33] Sonja Strom: To read the agenda?
[9:34] Cindy Ecksol: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2034
[9:34] Cindy Ecksol: agenda in the ball on the floor
[9:34] Justice Soothsayer: I’m content with the current flag
[9:34] Brian Livingston: For the record, do we have a bill number for archival purposes off hand?
[9:34] Cindy Ecksol: no, Brian, can you give us one?
[9:34] Sonja Strom: So we are talking about the flag bill proposed by Claude?
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: cindy?
[9:35] Cindy Ecksol: yes
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g this flag: http://claude.desmoulins.googlepages.co … gDraft.pdf ?
[9:35] Cindy Ecksol: that was what i put on the agenda. since that’s how it seems to have been “tabled” to date
[9:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4 stars, assymetrically arranged, on the top left corner, small size?
[9:35] Cindy Ecksol: Bill says THREE stars.
[9:36] Brian Livingston: Hmmm, not off-hand. I’ll have to see where it falls in order of legislation passed this term.
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hmm
[9:36] Cindy Ecksol: * Edit post
* Delete post
* Report this post
* Information
* Reply with quote
Another Flag Bill
Postby Claude Desmoulins on Tue 05 Aug , 2008 11:06 am
Per Gwyn’s suggestion in This thread : viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2017#wrap
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, ok
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That proposal is one year old…
[9:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We have less regions proposed now (42)
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol: yes, about time to revive it and either pass or kill, eh?
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol: or perhaps more if new GMP is developed that way.
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, the discussion is mostly about “how many stars and why
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol: yes, exactly.
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ”
[9:37] Brian Livingston: I think it has merit. At first, I was put off by the thought of not updating the flag for each region, being hte american-centric person that I am and partial to our flag. Hoqwever, that is a lot of labor for each region and requires that the same base file is shared and constantly available
[9:37] Sonja Strom: Is this the discussion time for this bill?
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Brian
[9:37] Brian Livingston: So there is certainyl something to be said about having a constant symbol
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol nods at songa
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol: sonja
[9:38] Sonja Strom: thanks
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, Sonja, I think so!
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: Ok folk.
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: are you ready to vote?
[9:38] Sonja Strom: I’m not yet.
[9:38] Pip Torok: Has anyone proposed one star per _cluster_ e.g. on for NFS one for NH one for pelagic sims etc.?
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmmmmmmmmmmh
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not, either!
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: Or move and amendment?
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[9:38] Justice Soothsayer: Well, Soro, I’m still not sure whether we are voting for a 3-star bill or a 4-star image.
[9:38] Moon Adamant: that is tranferring the problem pip
[9:38] Sonja Strom: Rose made a comment about it in the forum I thought was interesting, that 4 stars would make it work better when texturing things with it.
[9:39] Moon Adamant: agreed
[9:39] Cindy Ecksol: To clarify: we are voting on the THREE star bill unless someone moves to amend
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d say that we should discuss this in two steps: 1) A fixed amount of stars forever, OR a changeable amount depending on regions/sims/whatever; and 2) If 3 or 4
[9:39] Soro Dagostino: Three stars.
[9:39] Sonja Strom: I didn’t quite understand that, but maybe we could consider it.
[9:39] Sonja Strom agrees with Gwyneth
[9:39] Soro Dagostino: Thats is the Agenda item before the body.
[9:40] Soro Dagostino: If its to be four stars — we need an amendment.
[9:40] Cindy Ecksol: so does someone have objectsion to the “fixed number” of stars?
[9:40] Sonja Strom: I don’t mean to be short, but the agend item is “Flag Bill.”
[9:40] Pip Torok: not me
[9:40] Sonja Strom: Gwyneth’s idea is a way for us to talk about the Flag Bill.
[9:41] Justice Soothsayer: I am in favor of “fixed number of stars” rather than adding 1 each time we add a sim
[9:41] Brian Livingston: Ideally, I would prefer to add a star for each region, however i don’t think it is reliably sustainable.
[9:41] Cindy Ecksol continues to look around for objections to fixed number of stars…..
[9:41] Sonja Strom: So Soro, Claude’s bill has been seconded?
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: No
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: And no one listens.
[9:41] Cindy Ecksol: yes, has been seconded and can be amended if we now wish to
[9:41] Sonja Strom: ok, then we are still in open discussion about it.
[9:41] Sonja Strom is listening
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[9:41] Cindy Ecksol: we are in discussion
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: Now.
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: Time limits are stretching.
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: Are you ready to vote?
[9:43] Sonja Strom: No, I’m not.
[9:43] Soro Dagostino: Three stars.
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I really don’t know what to say, except that either we amend it now, or drop it forever = I’m all for a FIXED number of stars for reasons of practicality (even the EU found that out after getting 12 stars!)
[9:43] Cindy Ecksol: i move to extend the time limit
[9:43] Cindy Ecksol: let’s continue discussion
[9:43] Pip Torok: the advantage of a fixed number is that the number represents the members of the original confederation (NFS CN)
[9:43] Sonja Strom: second
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second Cindy’s move to continue the discussion.
[9:43] Brian Livingston: I second
[9:43] Soro Dagostino: Non debatable.
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True, Pip
[9:43] Soro Dagostino: Vote?
[9:43] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on continuing to discuss.
[9:43] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:43] Justice Soothsayer: aye on continuing discussion
[9:43] Pip Torok: aye on continuing to discuss
[9:44] Brian Livingston: aye on continuing discussions
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: nays?
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn counts
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: So we continue
[9:44] Cindy Ecksol: I saw no serious objections to fixed number of stars….still true?
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:44] Justice Soothsayer: Soro to be parliamentarily correct, I’ll move to amend “three stars” to “4 stars”.
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy, only brian’s comment
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: Is gthere a second?
[9:44] Cindy Ecksol nods at Gwyn and Brian
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Justice: and include on Claude’s wording that the fourth star represents “the people”?
[9:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (as suggested on the forums)
[9:45] Cindy Ecksol: no second for justice’s motion?
[9:45] Justice Soothsayer: OK, Gwyn.
[9:45] Pip Torok: what about 2 as the _original_ members of the confederation?
[9:45] Cindy Ecksol: (cannot discuss without a second)
[9:45] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Cindy
[9:45] Brian Livingston: I weouldn’t identify the stars with any region. It creates a two-tiered system of categorizing and prioritizing our sisms and seems contrary to our democratic ideals
[9:45] Sonja Strom: Pip, I see what you are talking about, but our community was not founded as two sims in partnership…
[9:45] Cindy Ecksol: Pip, do you want to make a motion for two stars?
[9:45] Sonja Strom: it was Neualtenburg for some time, and then Neufreistadt…
[9:46] Sonja Strom: then added another sim.
[9:46] Pip Torok: no …but you see what happens if we add star after star after star
[9:46] Soro Dagostino: Should this be referred to a working party?
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah really
[9:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I don’t think so, Soro
[9:46] Rose Springvale groans from the cheap seats
[9:46] Sonja Strom: Soro, what’s your hurry?
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: Soro, I would not favor a working group: we do not even have a second for any changes from three stars
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: From a ONE-YEAR thread we see that not many people are really interested in discussing this further,
[9:47] Soro Dagostino: To finish within an hout.
[9:47] Brian Livingston: But it seems resolved that we are working with a fixed number of stars. The discussion is simply over whether to add a fourth star to represent the citizens’ role in our governance
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we have 2-3 alternatives
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree, brian
[9:47] Sonja Strom: Do we have an hour time limit?
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ie. I agree that there is not much more to discuss
[9:47] Sonja Strom: for finishing?
[9:47] Pip Torok: I propose that the flag be composed of two stars … as the first two members of the CDS confederation
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: OK, folks, if someone wants FOUR stars or TWO stars there must be a motion AND a second
[9:47] Brian Livingston: I second Justice’s proposal to add the urth star to represent the citizens
[9:47] Brian Livingston: fourth*
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: there is a motion to amend to FOUR stars, no second
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second Justice’s motion too.
[9:48] Moon Adamant: well, it would be good if you could finish before Guild’s meeting time at 11
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: [herding cats]
[9:48] Cindy Ecksol: kk!
[9:48] Cindy Ecksol: can we now vote on that amendment?
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles @ Moon
[9:48] Pip Torok: errr my motion?
[9:48] Sonja Strom: [being pushy]
[9:48] Brian Livingston: Mr Leader, Bunneh!
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: The motion before the body – four stars on the flag.
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A point of order… there are several ways to arrange the 4 stars,
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Called questions.
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Vote?
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: does Justice’s amendment propose Claude’s way of arranging the four stars too?
[9:49] Cindy Ecksol: Gwyn…hold that thought for discussion
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Cindy.
[9:49] Moon Adamant: Gwyn, i think as suggested in teh image in the forums….
[9:49] Cindy Ecksol: we are just voting to amend (or not) right now.
[9:49] Soro Dagostino: Vote please.
[9:49] Cindy Ecksol: nay
[9:49] Brian Livingston: Aye to amendment
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, aye for amendment.
[9:49] Justice Soothsayer: aye to 4 stars, the 4th added to represent the People.
[9:49] Sonja Strom: aye to amendment
[9:49] Sonja Strom: (sorry Pip)
[9:49] Pip Torok: (np_
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Votes?
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on the motion.
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Carried.
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Motion is to approve the flag with 4 stars.
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: discussion
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Ready to vote?
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol: in re Gwyn’s question about arrangement, the Flag Bill thread has a mockup of 4 stars.
[9:51] Brian Livingston: I think the stars have more visual impact along the hoist side of the flag
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol: shall we look?
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It has, yes, Cindy
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2034
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I suggest that the RA only worries about the # of stars, and leave the aesthetical considerations to the technical expertise of the Guild
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol: scroll down a bit…
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — is that a motion to amend?
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Claude’s reasoning for the arrangement: “Note that the yellow stars, even though small, stand out against the blue background.”
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahh Soro
[9:52] Justice Soothsayer is ready to vote on Flag Bill as amended
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: now we’re getting into heraldics
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Should the RA vote on a *blazon*?
[9:53] Pip Torok: and /me is ready
[9:53] Soro Dagostino: There is a call for the question
[9:53] Moon Adamant: ahem
[9:53] Brian Livingston: So we are refering design considerations to the Guild? I would aonly agree if we vote again to approve the final product, given its symbolic importance
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Would somebody please state how the bill would actually read as amended?
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Brian: yes.
[9:53] Moon Adamant: Gwyn, you can onlt blazon after you have the coat defined
[9:53] Moon Adamant: only*
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Ok.
[9:54] Soro Dagostino: The motion is to have four stars on the flag.
[9:54] Cindy Ecksol: hold on….I am rewriting..,..
[9:54] Moon Adamant: sorry… i like heraldry
[9:54] Sonja Strom: Thanks Cindy
[9:54] Soro Dagostino: Cindy . . .
[9:56] Soro Dagostino: Should we hold the matter and move on to the next item?
[9:56] Cindy Ecksol gave you Flag bill.
[9:56] Cindy Ecksol: did I get everyone?
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thank you CIndy
[9:56] Justice Soothsayer: got it
[9:56] Soro Dagostino: Yes, do all have it.
[9:56] Pip Torok: yes
[9:56] Rose Springvale: hmm
[9:56] Brian Livingston: nopes
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So we need to vote on this amendment
[9:56] Soro Dagostino: Your mod is an amendment?
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think so, Soro
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[9:57] Rose Springvale: can you post in chat please
[9:57] Pip Torok: seconded
[9:57] Brian Livingston: i don’t have the bil
[9:57] Justice Soothsayer: WHEREAS, the current flag of the CDS, with two stars, was adopted shortly after the addition of Colonia Nova, and
WHEREAS, there was at least a tacit suggestion that we add a star per sim to the flag, and
WHEREAS. the GMP calls for a large continent of many regions, and
WHEREAS, that’s a lot of stars to squeeze onto one flag.
Therefore be it resolved that the CDS flag shall henceforth have four stars, representing the three branches (representative, philosophic, and executive) of our government and the people with Guild to propose final design and present to RA for approval.
[9:57] Brian Livingston: thank you cindy
[9:57] Moon Adamant: please, for the audience’s advantage, paste things in chat
[9:57] Cindy Ecksol: whew!
[9:57] Sonja Strom: Thanks Cindy and Justice
[9:57] Moon Adamant: thanks Justice
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: WHEREAS, the current flag of the CDS, with two stars, was adopted shortly after the addition of Colonia Nova, and
WHEREAS, there was at least a tacit suggestion that we add a star per sim to the flag, and
WHEREAS. the GMP calls for a large continent of many regions, and
WHEREAS, that’s a lot of stars to squeeze onto one flag.
Therefore be it resolved that the CDS flag shall henceforth have four stars, representing the three branches (representative, philosophic, and executive) of our government and the people with Guild to propose final design and present to RA for approval.
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Vote . . .
[9:57] Rose Springvale: lol. and gwyn…
[9:57] Pip Torok: aye
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: All those in favor.
[9:58] Brian Livingston: aye
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry.
[9:58] Justice Soothsayer votes aye
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and aye
[9:58] Pip Torok: aye
[9:58] Sonja Strom raises hand
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: yes Sonja
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:58] Sonja Strom: How will it be known who will design it?
[9:58] Sonja Strom: Would that be another bill, or just left open?
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: sez right there “Guild”
[9:58] Moon Adamant: workgroup in the Guild
[9:58] Sonja Strom: ah, ok
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: That is a change of subject.
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: Any nays?
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: Carried.
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: yay!!!
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: ***** APPPPPPPLLLLAAAUUUSSSSEEEEEEE***********
[9:59] Sonja Strom: Sorry Soro, I just didn’t see that wording in the bill.
[9:59] Rose Springvale smiles
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: can we take time for the anthem bill now?
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: Now to Anthem.
[9:59] Justice Soothsayer: Move adoption.
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anthem is MORE FUN
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seconds Justice’s move.
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: [groan]
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol Soro
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: which move?
[10:00] Sonja Strom: Hm Cindy, I don’t know if we can take so much time…
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:00] Sonja Strom: we need to really hurry!!
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Move to adopt the Anthem
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:00] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: That is before the body.
[10:00] Justice Soothsayer: It’s on the wall
[10:00] Pip Torok: aye
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (that was Justice’s motion)
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
[10:00] Rose Springvale: lol
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Its on the wall.
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: rose can you play for us?
[10:00] Sonja Strom: No, we can not take the time to discuss this –
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ooooh
[10:00] Brian Livingston wouldn’t suggest hurrying with any enduring symbol ofthe confederation, although he has no objections to the anthem.
[10:00] Rose Springvale: oh, sure
[10:00] Sonja Strom: we must vote immediately!!
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: omg
[10:01] Sonja Strom: Besides, there has been a second
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we can move to extend the meeting surely?
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: That’s a call of the question
[10:01] Cindy Ecksol: so….that means discussion
[10:01] Moon Adamant: welll… there is still one hour to Guild… you can take your time…
[10:01] Sonja Strom: oh, ok,
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: I tried.
[10:01] Sonja Strom: so we can have a little time?
[10:01] Cindy Ecksol: yes…
[10:01] Sonja Strom: ok
[10:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn moves to extend the discussion
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: That’s the rules.
[10:01] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:01] Cindy Ecksol: that is, I second gwyn’s motion to extend
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Non-debatetable
[10:02] Sonja Strom: I thought you were in a hurry.
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I vote aye on discussing a BIT further.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: need to set up the player, will get it streaming in one sec
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Call on extending time
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay Rose
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye on extending time
[10:02] Cindy Ecksol: aye to extend
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Vote
[10:02] Sonja Strom: ok, I can take a few minutes for this if you can.
[10:02] Justice Soothsayer: aye to extend
[10:02] Sonja Strom: aye on extending
[10:02] Pip Torok: aye to extend
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Ok, more time.
[10:03] Cindy Ecksol notes that rose is setting up the player…
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok… I have actually a question
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The Anthem is two things,
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lyrics and music
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: in order
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Shall we move to approve both together?
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or each in turn?
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: yes!!!!
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: wh would we separate????
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so the motion is to approve both together.
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: why*
[10:04] Rose Springvale: playing
[10:04] Pip Torok: together … one affects the other!
[10:04] Soro Dagostino: Its presented as a single motion.
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (who knows, Cindy, because someone might like the music and not the lyrics, or vice-verse )
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:04] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok. Single motion; I agree with that then
[10:04] Rose Springvale: hm, this isn’t the one with lyrics.. hold on
[10:04] Rose Springvale: just listen lol
[10:04] Justice Soothsayer: indeed, a single motion
[10:05] Rose Springvale: are you hearing it?
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: yes
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Just over.
[10:05] Rose Springvale: wait
[10:05] Sonja Strom: Not me
[10:05] Rose Springvale: is that it?
[10:05] Rose Springvale: no
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol: sounds wierd….
[10:05] Moon Adamant: yes
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol: weird even
[10:05] Rose Springvale: one sec
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol: not the recording we made…old words
[10:05] Moon Adamant: it’s a synth voice on the anthem
[10:05] Sonja Strom: I have heard it before though…
[10:06] Sonja Strom: ah, ok Cindy
[10:06] Rose Springvale: need to import again.
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: nicer :=)
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: this is the instrumental…don’t hear the voice
[10:07] Brian Livingston: is ther a url to a copy online?
[10:07] Brian Livingston: SL doesn’t like playing music reliably for me for whatver reason
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:07] Sonja Strom: While we are waiting, maybe I should let you know I was making an ironic comment about needing to hurry before, not actually saying we need to hurry.
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: kk
[10:07] Cindy Ecksol: oh, ok!
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: There ought to be, yes
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol ok Sonja!
[10:07] Cindy Ecksol: was wondering what the rush was
[10:07] Pip Torok: words are so much better when I sing them in my head!
[10:08] Sonja Strom: me too, Cindy!
[10:08] Cindy Ecksol: ok, rose!!!
[10:08] Sonja Strom: I even got excluded from a vote because I was not fast enough.
[10:08] Rose Springvale: here we are
[10:08] Brian Livingston: Aah, that makes more sense Sonja Gotta love the nuances of inflections in text chat
[10:08] Sonja Strom:
[10:09] Sonja Strom: Will this be playing on the sound stream?
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:09] Cindy Ecksol: yes….it is
I need a hobby
Posts: 714
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 8:00 am
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Re: RA Meeting March 29 TRANSCRIPT 3/3
by Gwyneth Llewelyn » Sun Mar 29, 2009 10:46 am
[10:09] Moon Adamant: it is playing now, Sonja
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh I simply love this version
[10:09] Rose Springvale: oh,yes, i’ll repeat.. its only one minute
[10:09] Brian Livingston: Hmm, io can’t find a url to this on the forums. I thought we had one
[10:09] Sonja Strom: hm, I’m sorry, I am not hearing it.
[10:09] Rose Springvale: just press play
[10:10] Rose Springvale: is it playing ?
[10:10] Sonja Strom: ah, ok, needed to restart the player
[10:10] Sonja Strom: yes, now
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh my
[10:10] Sonja Strom: Cindy’s lovely voice…
[10:10] Rose Springvale: its looping
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *do* feel the urge to stand up
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:10] Rose Springvale: makes me want to cry lol
[10:10] Sonja Strom: hehee, me too!
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, it came out so well!
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol: yes, it’s very anthem-like
[10:10] Sonja Strom Claps!!!
[10:10] Moon Adamant applauds
[10:10] Pip Torok: claps …
[10:10] Sonja Strom: Very nice.
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol who would imagine,
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol: ok, i move to end discussion and appropve
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that such a thing that started as a JOKE
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: would at the end sound so good!!
[10:11] Rose Springvale: makes you wonder about all anthems lol
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose: YES!
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:11] Sonja Strom: hehee
[10:11] Rose Springvale: ready to stop?
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that’s what I had in mind
[10:11] Cindy Ecksol: hey, in the US ours is a drinking song
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And I second Cindy’s motion!
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Call the questions
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy: ))))))))
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:11] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AYE
[10:11] Pip Torok: aye
[10:11] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:12] Brian Livingston: abstain
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Justice
[10:12] Brian Livingston: (I can’t hear it and all of the forum links to it are dead)
[10:12] Rose Springvale: oh
[10:12] Sonja Strom: Brian try restarting your stream player.
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hmm
[10:13] Rose Springvale: sorry brian i just turned it off lol
[10:13] Soro Dagostino: Nays?
[10:13] Rose Springvale: want it again?
[10:13] Brian Livingston: not going to work. There is something about the linux client update and my sound driver
[10:13] Sonja Strom: oh, ups
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I just have some old versions, sadly, Brian
[10:13] Rose Springvale: i’ll email it brian
[10:13] Sonja Strom: oh ah
[10:13] Brian Livingston: I need to work on fixing it since LL refuses to
[10:13] Rose Springvale: after the meeting lol
[10:13] Soro Dagostino: Motion is carried, Justice astains?
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: /wow! two bills in one session!! we’d better be careful — we might start actually being productive here!
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if this WILL be on the constitution (flag & anthem)
[10:13] Moon Adamant: in any case, the ayes already carry it, right’
[10:13] Justice Soothsayer: no, I vote aye as well
[10:13] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:13] Moon Adamant: ?
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: kk
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Carried.
[10:14] Sonja Strom: People have problems with seeing Metanomics who have the linux os, too.
[10:14] Pip Torok: sounds like a good precedent though!
[10:14] Justice Soothsayer was trying to hear the anthem
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Any Citizens proposals.
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We should also ask the RA archivist to to keep copies of:
[10:14] Rose Springvale: i’ll be glad to email to anyone who couldn’t hear and wants to
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – the text of the anthem
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: yes, and music….I have PDF
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – the music as per the latest arrangement
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Thanks Rose.
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: – and the music, as sung by the lovely Cindy (at least!)
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: who is archivist? Aliasi?
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: No Citizens Proposals?
[10:15] Brian Livingston: We should get that onto the portal when we get a moment
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Good question, Cindy!
[10:15] Rose Springvale: publius is RA archivist isn’t he?
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, that too, Brian
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Publius then.
[10:15] Rose Springvale: Aliasi is content
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok….
[10:15] Rose Springvale: probably both
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Call for adjournment?
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:15] Justice Soothsayer: adjourn
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:15] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:15] Justice Soothsayer: aye
[10:15] Pip Torok: aye
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: abstain
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: LOL
[10:16] Cindy Ecksol: hey, only 30 minutes over
[10:16] Brian Livingston: aye
[10:16] Brian Livingston: lol
[10:16] Sonja Strom: over what Cindy?
[10:16] Cindy Ecksol: original time per the agenda
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: And they only gave us 45 min.
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Yay!!
[10:16] Justice Soothsayer: good job, Soro
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Thanks all.
[10:16] Rose Springvale: congrats all!
[10:16] Moon Adamant: thank you Soro, and all
[10:16] Sonja Strom: Thanks everybody!RA Meeting 5 April 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Apr 05, 2009 12:40 pm
[9:02] Pip Torok: hi soro , cindy, sonja
[[9:03] Cindy Ecksol: soro, I have a recorder, but it doesn’t ask for permission to record so you’ll need to keep asking people to consent in chat
[9:03] Sonja Strom: Hi Kedwyn!
[9:03] Soro Dagostino: We do have a quorum
[9:03] Kedwyn Parmelee: hi
[9:03] Sonja Strom: I consent to be recorded
[9:03] Cindy Ecksol: ok, will start the recorder…hold on.
[9:03] Soro Dagostino: How would that . . .
[9:03] Pip Torok: i consent to be recorded
[9:03] Soro Dagostino: Hi Ked. Welcom
[9:04] Soro Dagostino: Sonja do you consent to recording?
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: wait!
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: not set yet…
[9:04] Cindy Ecksol: ok, go ahead…
[9:04] Sonja Strom: I consent to be recorded
[9:05] Soro Dagostino: I consent to recording.
][9:05] Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[9:05] Cindy Ecksol: consent
[9:05] Soro Dagostino: Hello Arria
[9:05] Soro Dagostino: Do you consent to recording
[9:05] Arria Perreault: Hello Soro
[9:05] Arria Perreault: of course
[9:06] Arria Perreault: no recorder?
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: recorder is here arria but does not ask for permission
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: please consent in chat
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: didn’t get around to modifying it this week….
[9:06] Arria Perreault: I consent to be recorded
[9:06] Pip Torok: I consent to be recorded
[9:07] Soro Dagostino: Hello Rose.
[9:07] Rose Springvale: hi Soro, still rezzing
[9:07] Sonja Strom: Hi Rose
[9:07] Sonja Strom: Hi Arria
[9:07] Rose Springvale: Hi Sonja, Hi everyone
[9:07] Arria Perreault: Hi Sonja
[9:07] Arria Perreault: Hi all
[9:08] Kedwyn Parmelee: hi rose and arria
[9:08] Soro Dagostino: Rose, the recorder isn’t working as usual, do you consent to be recorded.
[9:08] Rose Springvale: if i speak, of course
[9:08] Soro Dagostino: I somehow do not doubt that.
[9:08] Soro Dagostino:
[9:08] Rose Springvale: ha! i’m always quiet!
[9:09] Rose Springvale: hi brian!
[9:09] Arria Perreault: Hi Brian
[9:09] Soro Dagostino: Hello Brian.
[9:09] Cindy Ecksol: I’m working on getting this one to ask nicely for permission but didn’t quite get to it this week
[9:09] Brian Livingston: Good Morning all, forgive the tardiness
[9:09] Soro Dagostino: Welcome
[9:09] Sonja Strom: Hi Brian
[9:09] Brian Livingston: I’ve been absorbed in Animal Crossing for the wii and looekd up and realized it was 12:02. eep
[9:10] Rose Springvale: smile
[9:10] Soro Dagostino: Some admin matters — We need to have you consent to recording in chat.
[9:10] Brian Livingston: Record away I consent
[9:11] Soro Dagostino: Shall the body come to order?
[9:11] Cindy Ecksol checks the menu deciding what to order…
[9:12] Soro Dagostino: Our morning agenda is a little sparse. Does anyone have a matter or item they wish to add?
[9:12] Arria Perreault: just two questions for understand well what is in agenda
[9:12] Pip Torok: Id like to add an item for descussion only
[9:12] Soro Dagostino: Arria?
[9:13] Arria Perreault: 1. what is TBA?
[9:13] Sonja Strom: I would like to make one comment.
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: To be announced.
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Pip, your next.
[9:13] Arria Perreault: 2. what means removal of forum administrator? which forum?
[9:14] Pip Torok: i’d like to discuss “Look and Feel ” within CDS sims ..
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: It was a suggestion [the forum Admin] that things were slow.
[9:15] Pip Torok: (shall I go on?
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: And performance was lacking.
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: Yes Pip.
[9:16] Pip Torok: right … well it is a fact that … objects are put up om public land at various times
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Pip . . . as to the item on the agenda.
[9:16] Pip Torok: are taken down, often at varioiing and arbitarary times
[[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Not opening for discussion just yet.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Lets get the agenda set first.
[9:16] Pip Torok: decision like say choice of meadow are made arbitararily …
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Pip — you move it to be an item on the agenda?
[9:17] Pip Torok: and public spaces are given sound or silence without general consent
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Pip.
[9:17] Pip Torok: i see that as a problem …
[9:17] Pip Torok: yes?
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: I am sorry, but discussion will await the item . . .
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Your motion is to add the issue to the agenda?
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: The chair will accept the motion, is there a second?
[9:18] Pip Torok: right .. the agenda s/be “Concern about Look and Feel with CDS sims”
[9:19] Pip Torok: (imo)
[9:19] Sonja Strom: second
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Ready for the Question?
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[9:19] Pip Torok: yes
[9:19] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:19] Pip Torok: aye
[9:19] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: That will be added to the agenda.
[9:20] Sonja Strom: Soro, I understood what you said too as that he should just begin the conversation.
[9:20] Brian Livingston: aye
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Brian
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: Cindy, would you add that to the agenda?
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: Are there any additional items for the agenda?
[9:22] Cindy Ecksol: sure…
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: None being stated, the agenda is closed.
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Pip’s agenda item is added.
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: thirsti, I request you consent to recordation.
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Thirsti?
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm.
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: When he wakes up, we will ask again.
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: Are there any speakers on the agenda items, non – RA.
[9:26] thirsti Sweetwater: i conssent
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: A comment for the record.
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: The LRA is apparently not allowed to post items in the official forum.
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: I would hope that could be fixed.
[9:27] Cindy Ecksol: Soro, Gwyn is the official adminstrator — the forums live on her server
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: since I am a newcomer, I don’t know what to do.
[9:28] Cindy Ecksol: all you have to do is ask Gwyn
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: I just did.
[9:28] Cindy Ecksol: kk
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: Ok, Next meeting.
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: Next week is Easter Sunday for many.
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: I proposed the body meet next on April 19 @ 0900
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion?
[9:29] Sonja Strom: Is your proposal a motion?
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: I cannot make motions as the chair.
[9:30] Sonja Strom: ah, ok
[9:30] Cindy Ecksol: so move
[9:30] Sonja Strom: second
[9:30] Pip Torok: I propose your motion Soro
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
[9:30] Brian Livingston: Second, although I will be out of town and request a 7 day vote on any motions during the meeting of APril 19th, 2009.
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: So noted as an amendment.
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[9:31] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:31] Pip Torok: aye
[9:31] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:32] Cindy Ecksol: official calendar has been updated
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Brian?
[9:32] Brian Livingston: aye
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Are there any nays?
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Now to the agenda items
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Are there any matters continued from the prior meetings?
[9:34] Soro Dagostino: None stated, we turn to Pip’s Agenda item.
[9:34] Sonja Strom: I would like to make a comment about the last meeting.
[9:34] Soro Dagostino: That is in order. Sonja.
[9:34] Sonja Strom: Thank you.
[9:35] Sonja Strom: I want to apologise for the ironic comments I made about the time spent on each topic.
[9:35] Sonja Strom: I found it frustrating how short the time was and how hurried our conversation was,
[9:35] Sonja Strom: and so began to say myself I thought we should hurry…
[9:35] Sonja Strom: it was meant as an ironic joke,
[9:36] Sonja Strom: but was apparently understood as being meant seriously by some,
[9:36] Sonja Strom: and there was a misunderstanding, which I take responsibility for.
[9:36] Pip Torok appreciates that irony sometimes backfires
[9:36] Sonja Strom: I learned from that to be more careful in making jokes like that.
[9:37] Sonja Strom: This said,
[9:37] Sonja Strom: I also think the schedule should be there for us,
[9:37] Sonja Strom: not the other way around.
[9:38] Sonja Strom: Maybe we can be a bit less formal about the exact amounts of time given in the schedule on each topic if there is a discussion happening,
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: Comment. The flip side of the coin, is that we do need to finish our meetings.
[9:38] Sonja Strom: and not simply have to stop for a vote just because the time given has passed,
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: And if the discussion is to continue, it should have some order.
[9:38] Sonja Strom: and let the conversation basically take the time it needs to.
[9:39] Sonja Strom: So, I have said my view.
[9:39] Sonja Strom: We can discuss it, of course.
[9:39] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[9:39] Soro Dagostino: And I, mine.
[9:39] Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[9:39] Cindy Ecksol: in response to Sonja, I’d just like to say,….
[9:39] Cindy Ecksol: that I think we really need to have times set on the agenda….
[9:40] Cindy Ecksol: if we don’t, then we tend to wander off-topic, take far too much time to discuss things that should not be debated at such length.
[9:40] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Cindy
[9:40] Cindy Ecksol: better that we run out of “agenda time”
[9:40] Rose Springvale looks at clock… and smiles
[9:40] Cindy Ecksol: and have to vote to extend
[9:40] Cindy Ecksol: done
[9:40] Soro Dagostino: Turning to Pip’s topic.
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: Please state the matter Pip?
[9:41] Pip Torok: To kick off .. this applies imo only to _public_ areas and to actions that are not covered by the NGO wps
[9:44] Pip Torok: I propose that if changes are made to public lands … then two things should happen … within 7 days of ity happening , the doer puts an announce ment in a permament thread “Look and Feel” … stating what is to be changed, the length of the change (eg indetermined or a set date of fonish) .. and any citizen could obkect to such a change
[9:44] Rose Springvale raises hand
[9:44] Pip Torok: changes cd be … change of choice of music or silence … advertisements
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: the chair takes that as a motion.
[9:44] Pip Torok: … booths … etc
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[9:44] Pip Torok: (have finished)
[9:44] Cindy Ecksol sits on hands
[9:45] Soro Dagostino: Anyone?
[9:45] thirsti Sweetwater wonders if rose has a question or has to pee?
[9:45] Soro Dagostino:
[9:45] Cindy Ecksol snickers
[9:46] Rose Springvale:
[9:46] thirsti Sweetwater: )
[9:46] Sonja Strom: Second
[9:46] Rose Springvale: sigh.
[9:46] Sonja Strom: Hi Timo
[9:46] Cindy Ecksol: sigh
[9:46] Soro Dagostino: discussion?
[9:46] Timo Gufler: Hi
[9:46] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[9:46] Soro Dagostino: The Proponent?
[9:46] Cindy Ecksol: (after rose of course)
[9:46] Soro Dagostino: Yes Cindy?
[9:46] Cindy Ecksol: rose first…
[9:46] Rose Springvale: (ra before audience cindy)
[9:46] Cindy Ecksol: ah…ok
[9:47] Soro Dagostino: First, Hello Timo.
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: I object to Pip’s motion simply because we already have caretakers to whom tat responsibility has been delegated
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: …
[9:47] Soro Dagostino: We need you to consent to recording in chat.
[9:47] Pip Torok: i want to add that citizens hav approached me in the past to say “when is suchand such going” .. from the corner of where s/he lives
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: either we delegate the responsibility because we trust them to handle it…or we don’t have “caretakers” at all.
[9:47] Cindy Ecksol: done
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Timo?
[9:48] Timo Gufler: sorry…
[9:48] Timo Gufler: should I touch something?
[9:48] Pip Torok: yes … but what about say boards advertising LA a year after LA has happened and most parcels are sold?
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Wait one please.
[9:48] Cindy Ecksol: well, pip….you are a citizen, and you know who th ecaretakers are. it is simple enough to ask
[9:49] Brian Livingston: This does seem to be a responsibiltiy that is firmly in the realm of the executive and civil service. If we have a problem with the actions or inactions of the executive, perhaps its best that we approach that branch instead of adding additional hurdles.
[9:49] Cindy Ecksol nods in agreement with brian
[9:49] Pip Torok: so i would say to such a person … contact the Chancellor?
[9:50] Cindy Ecksol: no….you would say to the caretaker “should this be removed?”
[9:50] Cindy Ecksol: if it doesn’t happen, you might speak to the chancellor
[9:50] thirsti Sweetwater: raises hand after rose….
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Rose?
[9:50] Rose Springvale: is all RA finished?
[9:50] Brian Livingston: Or approach the owner of the object for that matter, to see if it might be something that is no longer relevant and could be removed
[9:50] Brian Livingston is done
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Rose.
[9:50] Cindy Ecksol nods
[9:51] Pip Torok: How wd we know who the caretaker might be … the owner of the object?
[9:51] Sonja Strom: I am a caretaker
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol:
[9:51] Sonja Strom: So is Lilith
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Rose . .
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Is next.
[9:51] Rose Springvale: First, i think ALL the civil servants in CDS are very responsive and dedicated to the sims
[9:51] Sonja Strom: There might be more, I’m not sure.
[9:51] Rose Springvale: so any of us are happy to help if there are issues.
[9:51] Rose Springvale: as to giving notice before making changes… adamantly.. no
[9:52] Pip Torok: So could I suggest that we publish a list of caretakers?
[9:52] Rose Springvale: we spend so much time trying to get things together aroudn here with very little help.. the last thing we need is one more hoop to jumpt through.
[9:52] Rose Springvale: the list is always published at the beginning of each term
[9:52] Rose Springvale: in the fourms
[9:52] Sonja Strom: The Caretakers are announced in the Forum each term by the Chancellor.
[9:52] Pip Torok: ah …
[9:52] Rose Springvale: and any review of the budget shows who they are as well
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: Point of Order . . .
[9:53] Sonja Strom: I guess one answer to your question Pip, about how one would know who the Caretakers are, is to take something like that to the Chancellor.
[9:53] Rose Springvale wait
[9:53] Soro Dagostino: Is there a place where the names can be found without going to the forums?
[9:53] Brian Livingston: There are lists of caretkers, on the executive forum and on the portal. http://portal.slcds.info/index.php?id=executive
[9:53] Rose Springvale waits
[9:53] Brian Livingston: Albeit, the list needs to update the addition of onen ame, but Sonja and the rest of the civil servant team is listed on there
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Thank you Brian,
[9:54] Sonja Strom: I didn’t know that was there!
[9:54] Brian Livingston: err, are listed*
[9:54] Pip Torok: soro … to save RA time is it possible to withdraw the motion?
[9:54] Rose Springvale: may i proceed soro?
[9:54] Soro Dagostino: Yes Rose.
[9:55] Rose Springvale: Second, as you all might remember, the chancellor has opened up the events budget for sim specific events, to be presented by residents of the sim as they see fit. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to join out team and take the responsibility that goes with it
[9:55] Rose Springvale: Talk to the chancellor or to me
[9:55] Soro Dagostino: I am sorry,
[9:55] Rose Springvale: done
[9:56] Soro Dagostino: I ask that you all return to chat.
[9:56] Cindy Ecksol: here…
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Waiting.
[9:57] Rose Springvale: here as well
[9:57] Brian Livingston blinks
[9:57] Timo Gufler:
[9:57] Sonja Strom looks around the room
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Timo.
[9:58] Pip Torok: Soro … I beg to withdraw my motion
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: The maker of the agenda item has moved that it be dispensed with.
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: second
[9:58] Sonja Strom: second
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: Non-debateable.
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: \Vote?
[9:59] Brian Livingston: aye
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:59] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:59] Pip Torok: abstain
[9:59] Sonja Strom: lol
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: ?
[9:59] Sonja Strom: Pip, you abstained on your own motion.
[9:59] Pip Torok: i meant aye
[10:00] Sonja Strom: hehee
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Carried.
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: do I hear a motion to adjourn?
[10:00] Rose Springvale: wait lol
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: scuse
[10:00] Pip Torok: motion to adjourn
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Ok.
[10:00] Cindy Ecksol: public items firat
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Its your nickle now.
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Yes cindy.
[10:01] Cindy Ecksol: not me…others?
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: a joke.
[10:01] Sonja Strom is wondering if Rose would like to say something to us.
[10:01] Arria Perreault: May I a remark at the end?
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: Are there any Citizens items.
[10:01] Rose Springvale: just seems odd that we always have citizen time on the agenda and we are never asked before the motion to adjourn
[10:02] Cindy Ecksol THINKS Soro did that as a joke….?
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Here is where Timo’s comment fits.
[10:02] Rose Springvale: I’ve got a couple of things. One, see above re: Event team
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Yes! It was 10:00
[10:02] Timo Gufler: comment?
[10:02] Timo Gufler: did I comment something?
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: Yes Timo, your question in the CDS channel belongs here.
[10:03] Timo Gufler: ok
[10:03] Rose Springvale sits quietly again..waiting her turn
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: No problem.
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: Rose?
[10:03] Arria Perreault: And Arria after Rose?
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[10:04] Rose Springvale: okay, see 1 about. 2. I have asked for help on the anniversary of CDS and possibly a May fair on democracy
[10:04] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:04] Rose Springvale: 3. I will take to the Chancellor, but i’d like to see more shops on the marktplatz, like sonja’s new one, and fewer offices of factions….
[10:04] Rose Springvale: at least in non election months
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol:
[10:04] Sonja Strom:
[10:05] Rose Springvale: there are other places in the sims that would be find for gathering places, but “markt” seems to mean we might buy things there
[10:05] Rose Springvale: fine*
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol thinks all factions should meet in the rauthaus
[10:05] Rose Springvale: finally, please send interested potential citizens to me… we have a lot of land to sell.
[10:06] Rose Springvale: (i hear the rathaus is bugged!)
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[10:06] Sonja Strom: lol!
[10:06] Sonja Strom: Probably!
[10:06] Brian Livingston: That carrot with the flashing light is jut decoration….
[10:06] Rose Springvale: done
[10:06] Sonja Strom: hahaa
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[10:06] Sonja Strom: Thanks Rose
[10:06] Sonja Strom wants the CDS to have better shopping
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: Arria?
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: Your next.
[10:07] Arria Perreault: I have a remark about the agenda
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: [donning asbestos coat.]
[10:07] Arria Perreault: I have found that it very short, with expressions like TBA
[10:08] Arria Perreault: with that it’s hard to understand the content of the meeting
[10:08] Arria Perreault: as citizen, we need more informations
[10:08] Soro Dagostino: Arria — I started with a request for items for the Agenda last Tuesday.
[10:08] Soro Dagostino: Nada
[10:08] Arria Perreault: I know
[10:09] Cindy Ecksol: and…….?
[10:09] Arria Perreault: but it must be understandable and clear
[10:09] Soro Dagostino: So, rather than cancel the meeting I asked — Friday and Saturday again
[10:09] Soro Dagostino: Nada
[10:09] Soro Dagostino: So is “TBA”
[10:09] Pip Torok feels that “To be announced” is better than “TBA”
[10:09] Arria Perreault: yes
[10:10] Arria Perreault: many people don’t have english as mothertongue
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol moves that TBA never be included again on our agendas
[10:10] Rose Springvale thinks these are simple things that can be addressed by asking.
[10:10] Sonja Strom: I agree sometimes the meetings are not occommodating toward non-native English speakers
[10:10] Soro Dagostino: Sorry, I shall be more clear the next time it happens.
[10:10] Timo Gufler nods
[10:10] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:10] Soro Dagostino: Anything else to come before the group?
[10:11] Rose Springvale: but why not raise the issue when it first becomes unclear? soro is very approachable i’ve found. and i’d like to see some of the platforms taking some form from our reps, personally
[10:11] Arria Perreault: citizen cannot write in this part of the forum
[10:11] Sonja Strom gets out the DPU platform to look at it
[10:11] Arria Perreault: and I was not often in-world
[10:12] Rose Springvale: but the rest of the forum is read too
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol: Arria, you can always post in the general forum.
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol: that’s how everyone else who has “discussion points” does it…
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Point of Order . . .
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol: sorry
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Would it be better to announce the agenda in the general forum?
[10:13] Rose Springvale: do both, nbd.
[10:13] Rose Springvale: which means no big deal
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: can be cross-posted Soro
[10:13] Arria Perreault: I think that it is also the responsibility of the authorities to be clear, sorry
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: Jamie does this all the time…
[10:13] Soro Dagostino: Heh! When I am not allowed to make official announcements, its hard.
[10:13] Brian Livingston: I think the agenda belongs primarially in the RA announcenemts/discussion areas, but can be cross-posted at the LRA’s discretion to general
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: one post in the specifically relevant forum, and a pointer in the discussion forum
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: Soro, you CAN post in the RA group — you DID post in the RA group
[10:14] Rose Springvale would eliminate the forums and send all in world.. but realizes she is a minority
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Only to discussions.
[10:14] Rose Springvale: have to go.. see you all. thanks soro, eveyrone
[10:14] Sonja Strom: bye Rose
[10:14] Pip Torok: Its always possible to “view active topics” …
[10:14] thirsti Sweetwater: bye rose
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: kk….that’s where agenda belongs….RA members need to be able to respond
[10:14] Brian Livingston waves to Rose
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Are we ready to adjourn?
[10:14] Sonja Strom: thanks for being here with us today
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: bye rose
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Thanks Rose.
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Adjourn?
[10:15] Pip Torok: seconded
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Taken as a motion.
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Thank you
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: All in favor.
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:15] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:15] Pip Torok: aye
[10:15] Brian Livingston: aye
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Wonderful — only 15 min over.RA meeting 19 April 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Apr 19, 2009 3:58 pm
[9:03] Soro Dagostino: Please consent to be recorded.
[9:03] Cindy Ecksol: conset
[9:03] Sonja Strom: I consent
[9:03] Timo Gufler: conset
[9:03] Cindy Ecksol: consent to recording in chat please…
[9:04] Arria Perreault: consent
[9:04] Pip Torok: i dconsent to be recorded
[9:04] Jamie Palisades: I consent
[9:04] Rose Springvale: is the chat recorder working or do we consent in caht?
[9:04] Sigmund Leominster: I consent
[9:05] Soro Dagostino: And I consent.
[9:05] Soro Dagostino: In chat.
[9:05] Rose Springvale: smile, okay, consent
[9:05] Rose Springvale: agenda in the giver is old…
[9:05] Chat Range: Gwyneth Llewelyn [18m]
[9:05] Soro Dagostino: We have four — I was told by Justice and Brian they would be absent.
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, anyone know how to fix that?
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: yes, I can fix i fsomeone can give me the agenda
[9:06] Close Range: Gwyneth Llewelyn [24m]
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: The Agenda was announced in the forum
[9:06] Chat Range: Gwyneth Llewelyn [5m]
[9:06] Sonja Strom: Hi Gwyneth
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: chat recorder is on, but I haven’t yet rigged it to ask permission
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi hi, sorry for being late!
[9:07] Cindy Ecksol: hold on….fixing agenda
[9:07] Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwynethe — consent to recordation in chat please?
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh sure, record away
[9:08] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Cindy
[9:08] Cindy Ecksol: ok, fixed…
[9:08] Long Range: Leni Straaf [89m]
[9:08] Jamie Palisades: hmm that was an interesting dance by Arria – who we’ve just lost
[9:08] Rose Springvale: she’s relogging
[9:08] Jamie Palisades: I imagine so
[9:08] Pip Torok: lol
[9:08] Chat Range: Arria Perreault [11m]
[9:09] Close Range: Leni Straaf [40m]
[9:09] Chat Range: Leni Straaf [15m]
[9:09] Soro Dagostino: Hello Leni
[9:09] Rose Springvale: hi Leni!
[9:09] Leni Straaf: hello!
[9:09] Sonja Strom: Hi Leni
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn loves Rose’s fan
[9:11] Rose Springvale: smile
[9:11] Soro Dagostino: Ok, Agenda is posted.
[9:11] Rose Springvale: you should see me dance
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m a fan of your fan…
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yessss
[9:11] Rose Springvale: smile
[9:11] Sonja Strom:
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol I would love that!
[9:11] Arria Perreault: flamenco ?
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Soro
[9:12] Rose Springvale: Feria .. today, 3 pm… lol
[9:12] Soro Dagostino: Are there any changes.
[9:12] Rose Springvale: Soro, i’ve got announcements, not sure where that goes
[9:12] Rose Springvale: events
[9:12] Jamie Palisades smiles, raises eyebrow, waits for Mr LRA
[9:12] Soro Dagostino: Item 5.
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: But we will move it to 1 d. if you would like.
[9:13] Rose Springvale: it doesn’t matter, i just don’t want to be left out again
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Your heard today.
[9:14] Rose Springvale:
[9:14] Rose Springvale: thanks
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Any other changes to the Agenda?
[9:15] Cindy Ecksol: soro, I will have to leave at 10, so would like to request 7 day vote for later items
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: Any non-RA speakers on Agenda matters?
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one second, Soro…
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: Hold Cindy — we have that.
[9:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would like to ask if Moon’ll be around…
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: I do not know.
[9:16] Rose Springvale: i’ll reserve the right to speak as a non ra member
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Noted Rose.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Others?
[9:16] Arria Perreault: I will speak as non ra members
[9:16] Timo Gufler: maybe me too
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Noted Arria
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (ok, Moon might attend in a bit=
[9:16] Arria Perreault: III. GENERAL MASTER PLAN
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Timo
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Moon is noted as having something to say
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just if she gets here in time
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Per RA rules, there are three request for 7 day vote.
[9:18] You decline Guthrie’s Amer. And Trad. Folk, Kissena Park (18, 175, 21) from A group member named Dottie Iceberg.
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Justice, Brian and Cindy — who must leave at 10.
[9:18] Timo Gufler: is this the only time stlot when a non- RA member can speak?
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Technically, they can “sign-up” for any slot
[9:19] Timo Gufler: *slot
[9:19] Timo Gufler: ok
[9:19] Jamie Palisades: Mr. LRA? May I suggest that of the agenda items I have (my report, AA and Monastery), we push my report off until after 10, then?
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: No. Reserve the right to comment on agenda items
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Yes Jamie.
[9:20] Timo Gufler: I would like to reserve right to comment the Monastery item when it is discussed
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: Noted Timo
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: Rose, we have a guest, Sigmund, would you introduce please?
[9:21] Rose Springvale: oh, i’d be happy to!
[9:22] Rose Springvale: As you all know, Prim Perfect Magazine is highlighting CDS as sim of the month in May
[9:22] Rose Springvale: Sigmund is the writer who is herding us all together to create a masterpiece
[9:22] Rose Springvale: So if he calls on you, please give time and make him feel welcome here :0
[9:22] Sigmund Leominster: thank you
[9:22] Rose Springvale:
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Welcome Sigmund/
[9:23] Soro Dagostino:
[9:23] Sigmund Leominster nods
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Would you like to say a few words?
[9:23] Sigmund Leominster: Only that I am here simpyl as an observer…
[9:24] Chat Range: Moon Adamant [5m]
[9:24] Moon Adamant: hello everyone
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:24] Sigmund Leominster: And thank you for letting me attend
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Hello Moon.
[9:24] Rose Springvale: until rose gets her hooks in him and sells land…
[9:24] Sigmund Leominster:
[9:24] Moon Adamant: sorry i am late
[9:24] Cindy Ecksol wonders why rose gave sigmund the seat under that dangerous rock…
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Moon, please consent to recording?
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Welcome to the CDS, then, Sigmund And hi, Moon, you’re just in time to tell the LRA if you’re interested in talking about any of the points of the agenda
[9:24] Moon Adamant: certainly Soro, and please list me also as intending to speak
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: Noted
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: One last admin item. Next meeting is May 3, 2009 @ 0900
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: At the Chancellor’s request — his report is moved to after the discussion items in Item III
[9:26] Leni Straaf: me too constent
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: Which is the next — thank you Leni — item on the Agenda.
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: Point of Order . . .
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: I understand these proposals are not up for a vote today.
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: This a comment and issue discussion today.
[9:28] Jamie Palisades: is that a question directed at me?
[9:28] Jamie Palisades smiles
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: I am reporting what I was told by the Chancellor
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmmh.
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: But as a point of order, no resolution is up for vote today.
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Naughty, naughty The Chancellor now tells the LRA what to say? Shocking, shocking
[9:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[9:29] Jamie Palisades: I’ll just volunteer that the RA can do whatever it likes, but I will proposed (in light of the 3 absentees) a straw vote on two proposals today, followed by some homework and a plan to make a final decision on 3 May.
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: And that even took a long time.
[9:30] Moon Adamant: have the absentees reequested a 7-day vote?
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Yes, said before you arrived.
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, Moon, they did.
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: And Cindy has to leave.
[9:30] Moon Adamant: sorry, mr LRA
[9:30] Moon Adamant: just clearing why no vote is expected today
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: And she has also requested a 7 day vote.
[9:31] Moon Adamant: so… in theory, you can
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: The other issue is that the Resolution to be presented are not complete.
[9:31] Jamie Palisades: Oh i expect we will leave the meeting today with quite a few thigns cleared up if, with all respect, we get t the business items
[9:31] Moon Adamant: vote on this thie week, righT’
[9:31] Moon Adamant: ?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: No, unless the Motion is made in this session.
[9:32] Moon Adamant: ok ok
[9:32] Arria Perreault: for non english speakers: what is the meaning of “strw vote”?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: No vote is expected today.
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: Yes?
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Define Straw Vote . . . as you intend it to be.
[9:33] Timo Gufler: lol
[9:33] Arria Perreault: ty
[9:34] Moon Adamant: yes, i am not very sure of the meaning myself
[9:34] Soro Dagostino: Arria has a right to ask.
[9:34] Pip Torok: nor me
[9:34] Rose Springvale: informal vote, indicating preferences
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: That woudl be premature as we’re not in te agenda item, but to be generally responsive, what I would LIKE to see is this: a generall nnbinding agreement to the outline of two transactions — which will then allow the other side’s principles to finalize them – in both cases.
[9:34] Rose Springvale: but not binding
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: rose said it in 7 words
[9:34] Moon Adamant: thank you
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: a third of mine
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: typical
[9:34] Rose Springvale:
[9:34] Soro Dagostino: Arria?
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: Is that adequate for you?
[9:35] Arria Perreault: yes, tahnk you
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: Lets begin.
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: The Draft Bill for the accession of AA.
[9:36] Soro Dagostino: Jamie, where is that posted?
[9:36] Rose Springvale: hmm
[9:37] Rose Springvale: isnt’ this about GMP?
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: Soro, I expect (based on some chats with AA) to …
[9:37] Pip Torok: i have a note of the forum proposal if anyone wants a copy
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: huh?
[9:37] Moon Adamant looks up
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: GMP?
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: Lost me there
[9:37] Rose Springvale: sorry, i’ll be quiet
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: May I speak to AA?
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: thanks.
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: On both this and the Monastery project
[9:38] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: I;d hoped to write bills, and instead am bringing bullet point proposals to you —
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: — for which I apolgize, but I suspect will suffice to get over the main question we face —
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: which is, really, do we want to do these deals?
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: I thikn we do, by the way –\
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: but
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: the details have been constantly elusive
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: every time i sti down with the proponants, we find new twists
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: happily
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: i *think*
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: we have solid common understanding on each of them now
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: so
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: hat’s what I have come here to report, disvuss amd
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: importantly
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: seeka general reaction
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: we should tell both proponents if we intend to proceed.
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: thus the “starw vote” suggestion
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: with that as background:
[9:41] Jamie Palisades: here’s what I have on the first one, Al Andalus.
[9:41] Jamie Palisades: —
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: Yes?
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (copy and pasting takes a bit of time, Soro )
[9:41] Jamie Palisades: It’s SL it takes some typing. … Sudane was good enough to review the
Al-Andalus estate rent rolls. Here’s what we have confirmed with her help —
though I would like to ask her to report
to you directly before final action is
taken.
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: 1. There are two “main” sims, AA Alhambra and AA Generalife. They stay *approximately* fully rented, over time, in the same sort of 80-95% range we think of as normal for our mature NFS or AM sims. As most of you know, there are a lot of gorgeous builds there in the common area — what this means economically is that there’s some resemblance to NFS: a large number of very small lots, and swaths of public space.
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: These two do better than break-even consistently, but on a different basis than CDS. Al-Andalaus estate operates as a nonprofit, meaning they get a significantly reduced per-sim cost from Linden Labs, about HALF of the standard rate. So their rent rates amount to an averaged price per prim of around L$3/m2/month, lower than ours.
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: that’s significant
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: We could not harmonise CDS-wide rent rates after an AA merger without a rent raise in AA that we think would lose tenants, based on practice. So the first question must be, would CDS be
willing to take into its administration:
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: (a) a region with lower cost and lower rates?
(b) a region where the estate owner of record must be affiliated with some nonprofit organization shell (which Sudane, by the way, cannot do)?
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: Personally I believe both these are feasible, but they must be generally acceptable to you if we are to proceed.
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: As to (a): It seems to me that ALL of CDS, as a self-owned government with no profit taker, should be elgible for the Linden nonprofit rate. Our own Linden rates are likely to go UP. SO if we can qualify for them to go DOWN, cut in half or more, we should, period, and benefit from the increased revenue or decrease our rents CDS-wide, or both.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: As to (b): In the SHORT term, everythign we do in CDS is based in tryst anyway. We try Sudane to pay tier on time, not run with the Linden bank account to Ibiza. We trust Aliasi to actually *keep* our unreplaceble backups. Amnd so on. So I am not troubled by an arrangement where Rose’s AA people would persist with a nonprofit, probably with a couple of our CDS and their AA people as the ceremonical incorporators, and then that structure would simply take instruction from the government in the same way Sudane does now. Basically we’d have a second, subsidiary estate owner for some sims.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: In the LONG term, While we’ve talked some times in the past about a corporate shell for CDS, there hasn’t ever really been a complelling benefit. Halving our costs, in a recession, is one, So I would like us to re-rexamine the possibility of a shell nonprofit for all of CDS. Persaonlly I think if we do a second bigger shell it should not be a US organization — but let me stress, ths larger question is NOT a part of an AA merger transaction.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: …
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: I have more, but let’s stop there first. Basic idea: works only at DIFFERENT rates and if we take on the nonprofit structure. Any general questions about that? I note that the AA estate owner, Rose, is here also.
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I do have a ton… I’ll sign up with the LRA to add me to the queue
[9:47] Moon Adamant: i have one, very specific
[9:47] Soro Dagostino: Noted Gwyn
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Moon first, lol
[9:47] Soro Dagostino: Jamie are you finished.
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: As I said, no, but the issues of the voids, and merged governance, and simpler. I thn the REAL issue is this big one: will we accept nonharmonized rent and the nonprofit? So let’s do that first.
[9:49] Soro Dagostino: That will be the order of the day.
[9:49] Soro Dagostino: Questions on the nonharmonized rent?
[9:49] Soro Dagostino: Comments?
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmmh, yes, which order are you taking?
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Nonharmonized rents.
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, well, I’ll grab the floor then — lol
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: It is the subject on the floor.
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie… you said something which made my ears tingle…
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ” It seems to me that ALL of CDS, as a self-owned government with no profit taker, should be elgible for the Linden nonprofit rate. ”
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: How?
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Do you mean —” “let’s lobby for it to LL”?
[9:51] Jamie Palisades smiles
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: no
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: here is what I mean
[9:51] Moon Adamant: i don’t think that would work… they’re a tad deaf
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: LL HAS a nonprofit rate
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes.
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: but you have to have an org to get it – it;s a very LIGHT requirement but a solid one
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: so
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and indeed, LL is deaf and dumb, thus my question )
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: we have TWO pieces there Gwyn
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: long term
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: does CDS want to try and halve its own tier?
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: NOT today’s issue
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: just noting it
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: and short term
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: today’s issue
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: I was going to rule
[9:52] Moon Adamant: yes
[9:52] Jamie Palisades: will be take o AA if its ownership stays within a new nonprofit that we contorl?
[9:52] Moon Adamant: but on the short term
[9:52] Moon Adamant: a question is naturally raised
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: The topic is non-harmonized rents.
[9:52] Jamie Palisades smiles and waits for the LRA to direct order of speaking
[9:53] Soro Dagostino: Next on that topic?
[9:53] Jamie Palisades raises hus hand on the rent thing
[9:53] Moon Adamant: are you suggesting that the whole CDS to go under the umbrella of AA’s non-profit?
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be my question #2
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even if “for the time being”.
[9:53] Sonja Strom: I think it would be great if we could establish a way for nonprofit sims to join the CDS community.
[9:53] Soro Dagostino: Moon, I am sorry that is out of order.
[9:53] Sonja Strom: Right now all CDS sims are self-supporting, each with different rates of land fees. This would not seem much different from how it is now. The only difference would be the nonprofit factor, which I think is going in a good direction.
[9:53] Moon Adamant: sorry mr LRA
[9:53] Jamie Palisades: (no, Moon, but i think you’re out of order tecnically. Let’s let Soro run the meeting, if you will.)
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I object, Mr LRA. I cannot “vote” on a direction we should take about non-harmonised rates, unless I know what choices we are being offered here today.
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Bad choices are made by lack of information
[9:54] Jamie Palisades: (s a point of order I note no vot has yet been sought)
[9:54] Soro Dagostino: That is a Motion to overule the chair?
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Soro. No, just an objection
[9:54] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:55] Soro Dagostino: Can we live with nonharmonized rents?
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d prefer as a goal to have harmonised ones.
[9:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Within what we can do.
[9:55] Pip Torok: I say we can if only for the short/medium term
[9:55] Jamie Palisades raises his hand on the rent issue .. again
[9:55] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[9:55] Jamie Palisades: thanks. Here’s the raw calculations:
[9:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I agree with Pip…. ys, for the short term, to get anything actually going forward…
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: sigh,
[9:56] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: when you;d done.
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn dear I am goign to type several lines in a row now, OK?
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: NFS…………. Hi: 3.13 Lo: 1.77
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: CN…………… Hi: 2.98 Lo: 2.13
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: AM…………… Double prims: 5.12
if it were single prims: 2.56
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: LA……………. Double prims: 4.35
if it were single prims: 2.17
[9:56] Jamie Palisades: AA Alhambra…………………. 1.99
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: AA Generalife…………………. 2.06
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: and thanks to Sudane for those.
[9:57] You decline MOON FEVER/MOONTAGE (60, 138, 38) from A group member named Kourosh Eusebio.
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: what you should see is this
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: we do not have harmonized rents today
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: we may get there over time
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Are there questions about this information?
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: we woudl be bringing in AA at a lower *average* rate
[9:57] Jamie Palisades: but not radically so. Done
[9:58] Long Range: Tusitala Enoch [68m]
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: Do you all understand the figures presneted?
[9:58] Jamie Palisades: when it;s convenient, Mr LRA, I will suggest that I next repsond to the Moon/Gwyn Qs about nonprofits.
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol nods understanding
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: Yes Jamie — but lets get this down.
[9:59] Jamie Palisades nods
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn understands the figrues too — thank you to you and Sudane for the work in presenting them
[9:59] Close Range: Tusitala Enoch [38m]
[9:59] Long Range: Tusitala Enoch [46m]
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: Is there a “rule of Thumb Ratio?
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: yikes
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: meaning?
[10:00] Soro Dagostino: Your average difference?
[10:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices that the difference is not HUGE anyway — so I’d be fine in following Pip’s suggestion: short-term, different rates are ok (mostly to speed up the process), if the goal is, mid/long-term to strive to harmonise them.
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: Is that the consensus of the house?
[10:01] Sonja Strom: I think so.
[10:01] Pip Torok for the record concurs with Gwyn
[10:01] Jamie Palisades: I agree withGwyn there – and Soro, every time we try to essay an avarega CDS number we get a diff answer (chuckle, sigh)
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: Cidy?
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: sry.
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: I think she went RL at 10
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, if not a consensus, a majority…
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And yes, I think so too, Soro
[10:03] Pip Torok: i think so too
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: Ok, next question
[10:03] Cindy Ecksol: sorry…
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: I’m ok with gwyn’s statement.
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: and I do need to leave….so will pick this up in the transcript
[10:04] Soro Dagostino: Noted, Jamie — state the issue please?
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: thank you
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm — ) Drumming fingers on the rostrum.
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: we cannot do the AA deal without the AA basis in their sim tier price. Thus, we need *a* nonprofit entity of some kind — not their current one — to continue to own those sims asn estate owner of record. So this deal onl works if we are happy having a second-tier EO and leaving a simple nonprofit inplace. That creates 3 subissues
[10:06] Jamie Palisades: (a) a handful of ceremonial incorporators — easy, I think
[10:06] Jamie Palisades: (b) someone who is willing to be the second EO, but subject to the same control by the gov’t that Sudane is today
[10:07] Jamie Palisades: and (c) us being as comfortable with that person as we are with Sudane
[10:07] Jamie Palisades: done thanks
[10:07] Arria Perreault: I have a question
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: kk
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn also has one question after Arria
[10:08] Soro Dagostino: Noted
[10:08] Arria Perreault: A technical question: in case of non-profit, who is the estate ownwer: the rl organisation or an individual?
[10:09] Arria Perreault: for LL
[10:09] Jamie Palisades: the indvidual
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (from LL’s PoV: an individual avatar)
[10:09] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Jamie
[10:09] Jamie Palisades: the indviidual must TELL LL that they HAVE a nonprofit
[10:09] Jamie Palisades: but LL does not inquire much into its nature
[10:10] Arria Perreault: thank you
[10:10] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — your question?
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just to clarify 1) The “we need *a* nonprofit to continue to own those sims” means: we would have to change the EO of the AA sims to someone who owns a non-profit, is that it? 2) The reverse issue is possible, e.g. the CDS sims be under the AA’s not-for-profit? [NOTE: I’m not actually suggesting this idea, I’m just ASKING if that would be a possibility at all] 3) Can we use “any” not-for-profit? OTOH, I know about half a dozen… I’m even president of one or two… hehe
[10:10] Jamie Palisades: may I?
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: or should we create one not-for-profit specifically for the CDS?
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sure!)
[10:11] Jamie Palisades: this will take a minute
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[10:11] Jamie Palisades: (1) yes, unless we use the current EO, who is Rose.
[10:11] Jamie Palisades: (2) I don’t think so.
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (works for me
[10:12] Jamie Palisades: it woudl be possible (#@) but I thikn not wise.
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose’s the non-profit president?
[10:12] Jamie Palisades: well she is an office rof the OLD one, but for us she woudl hve to be an oficer of the NEW one.
[10:12] Jamie Palisades: may I continue?
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, I’ll ask that again later hehe
[10:13] Jamie Palisades: 3
[10:13] Jamie Palisades: there’s some flexibility in what kidn of nonprofit is used, but if we pursue this plan, the simlest course seesm to me to be this:
[10:13] Jamie Palisades: (a) use a new. single purpose nonporfit in a form with whih rose is comfortable, for AA
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: that probably means a US entity by the way
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: and
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: (b) AFTER we evaluate it,. IF we want to try …
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: a second NP (that maybe ownes the first, dunno) for the rest of CDS to get the lower rate …
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: .. which i do NOT think shoud be US based
[10:15] Moon Adamant npods in assent
[10:15] Jamie Palisades: done responding to Gywn’s Qs
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Moon. Your next.
[10:15] Sonja Strom: The CDS is not really in existence to make anybody a profit.
[10:15] Jamie Palisades: ( god knows)
[10:15] Moon Adamant: Soro, my question has been fully answered already, thank you
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I still have some questions… or rather… a hypothetical scenario.
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: Soro, a point or order?
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: On the nonprofit issue?
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Yes Jamie.
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: I have a practical suggetsion.
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: time limits,
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: How about 5 more mins of Q,s then 10 more on AA total, then at 1030 we move to Monastery?
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Yes, I was about to do that.
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: (which will be easier, but we must get to it)
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It means we have to write faster
[10:17] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, my hypothetical scenario is hypothetical, because I haven’t asked Rose’s opinion (so, Rose, feel free to yell NO)
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: I have every confidence in you Gwyn
[10:17] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn your issue?
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not an issue, a question/suggestion.
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s imagine that we wish to deal with AA this term still.
[10:18] Soro Dagostino: So state.
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And ask Rose, as representative/owner/president of the not-for-profit that runs AA,
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to become the EO of the CDS as well
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *temporarily* so
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: since that would neatly deal with the issue — again, short-term
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: While we figure out a permanent solution.
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, would that be acceptable to you?
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And then, of course, would that be acceptable to the RA?
[10:19] Jamie Palisades: :/ all of CDS? or just the AA thing?
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s it.
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: All of the CDS to make things easier
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather, all of the CDS PLUS AA.
[10:19] Rose Springvale smiles at Gwyneth.. do i answer?
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: Comments?
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: Rose
[10:19] Jamie Palisades: soryr, i object even to the question as rude to Sudane, without consulting her first.
[10:20] Jamie Palisades: but hey carry on. Rudness is not a law in CDS
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be scenario #2, and the reverse question to Rose, e.g. if that would be acceptable to Rose to have Sudane own the whole of AA + CDS
[10:20] Soro Dagostino: I would suggest it is but a proposal
[10:20] Jamie Palisades smiles and shrugs
[10:20] Rose Springvale: not sure about the formalities here… do i reply or no?
[10:20] Soro Dagostino: Rose
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: You have the floor.
[10:21] Rose Springvale: First, while it may seem more simple that way Gwyneth, it actually only complicates things,
[10:21] Rose Springvale: changes of EO are transfers of sims for LL purposes
[10:21] Rose Springvale: needless cost
[10:22] Rose Springvale: so while i am i’m sure sudane are flattered in your confidence
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha. True.
[10:22] Rose Springvale: i think it better to deal with the substantive issues and not worry about those details
[10:22] Jamie Palisades: ((onbe pays a chunk of money to LL for each EO transfer))
[10:22] Rose Springvale: okay?
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, yes, I forgot about that…
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Any more comments?
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So the third scenario is, we “flash” LL a ready-made not-for-profit on Sudane’s behalf?
[10:23] Soro Dagostino: Questions?
[10:23] Jamie Palisades: Mr LRA with 7 minuts left I will suggest that I briefly provide the REST of the points, then we see if more questions arise
[10:23] Soro Dagostino: Yes Jamie.
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[10:23] Jamie Palisades: *Gwyn, ask me later)
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right, I will
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: to finish up on the AA deal possibility:
[10:24] Soro Dagostino: Type fast Jamie
[10:24] Soro Dagostino:
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: 2. AA has four “homestead” voids. Albaycin, Sacramonte, Garnata and Almunecar. Each has a break-even tenant (though one is being paid by donations). Those tenants all would be willing to work with us on terraforming to serve as the “transition” simes between the main two AA sims and the body of CDS. The Guild;’s old GMP and more recent proposed amendments so not yet officially “siet” AA somewhere, but the principles make it clear that there should be some visual and topologic transition between themes — consider how our Alpine Meadows sim helps the Alpine NFS theme flow into CN. Over on the other (North and East) sidea of CN we have city walls; to the West of LA we have water; to there are multiple options for transition.
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: AA wants us to take on the rented break-even sims as a condition to the deal. If we have the right to reposition and gently modify terraforming on them, I think we should, solving both our transition issue … and the plan we were disussing to buy some voids ANYWAY to improve the scenic flow.
[10:25] Jamie Palisades: 3. The position of AA on the CDS map is an issue. Some GUild folks spontanrously suggested that we plunk AA down several sims to the West on the other side of a new Ocean, with noncontiguous land. That did not go over well in AA; I think they want to be PART of our community if they are here, which includes being ably to easily traverse from theme to theme.
[10:25] Moon Adamant raises her hand
[10:26] Soro Dagostino: Wait please
[10:26] Jamie Palisades: almost done
[10:26] Jamie Palisades: I would like to invite the Guild .. with a time deadline .. to take available data, including such land data as AA has (which I am not sure includes RAW fiels, but can be modelled from tools applied to the land) to suggest at least TWO positions for the 2 main sims and four voids, on land continguous to our current land mass. If the deadlines passes, I propose to commission for the work to be done instead.
[10:26] Jamie Palisades: finally,
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: 4. , as to politics, you saw my suggestions about bringing AA into the current RA/citizenship structure, market stalls and all, in my last report. After some thought, and chats, I believe that the AA folks find those proposals acceptable, So I don’t have anything to add there.
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: thanks.
[10:27] Soro Dagostino: Moon you have the floor.
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: summary – yes, the voids are in the deal; we need to find a map position; and yes, AA would be part of CDS, not re-do anythign constitutuional
[10:27] Moon Adamant: Thank you
[10:28] Long Range: Conny Halsey [47m]
[10:28] Moon Adamant: The Guild has constityued a workgroup to deal with the formulation of our General Master Plan
[10:28] Moon Adamant: in order to encompass several subjects
[10:28] Moon Adamant: of which the location of AA aas regards the overall CDS territory is one.
[10:29] Moon Adamant: Sadly, the process has been a bit rough
[10:29] Soro Dagostino: The result?
[10:29] Moon Adamant: and atm, the WG has decided not to contemplate the AA territory into the plan
[10:29] Soro Dagostino: Time is approaching.
[10:29] Moon Adamant: I ask the RA now
[10:29] Moon Adamant: and teh Chacellor
[10:30] Moon Adamant: if this is a formal request to teh workgroup to re-include AA in our study
[10:30] Moon Adamant: thank you
[10:30] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: I suggest 30 days: [10:26] Jamie Palisades: I would like to invite the Guild .. with a time deadline .. to take available data, including such land data as AA has (which I am not sure includes RAW fiels, but can be modelled from tools applied to the land) to suggest at least TWO positions for the 2 main sims and four voids, on land continguous to our current land mass
[10:30] Pip Torok: moon when you say not are yo meaning “never”?
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: and let me ask both Moon and Rose if that is sensible?
[10:31] Moon Adamant: Pip, for the moment being
[10:31] Soro Dagostino: I have a comment
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn has a positive comment too
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: (Pip, she just meant that the Guild voted not to officially find a place for AA YET)
[10:31] Pip Torok: understood
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: (they were waiting for RA i think, thus this meeting)
[10:31] Moon Adamant: i would gladly, as chair of that wg, have a formal request for re-introducing the AA question
[10:32] Sonja Strom: I think if the citizens of AA want to join with the CDS, they will want to work together with us on how to plan.
[10:32] Soro Dagostino: It seems to me, that keeping AA away from CDS is a deal breaker.
[10:32] Moon Adamant: uh, Sonja, by representation, i hope
[10:32] Jamie Palisades nods at Soro
[10:32] Rose Springvale: when it’s my turn
[10:32] Rose Springvale: i’ll reply
[10:32] Rose Springvale:
[10:32] Soro Dagostino: Rose
[10:33] Rose Springvale: thanks.
[10:33] Sonja Strom: If they don’t want to work together with us on it, then that is their decision to make.
[10:33] Rose Springvale: Al Andalus is ready, willing and able to work with CDS.
[10:33] Pip Torok: but do we know that for a fact?
[10:33] Rose Springvale: the sooner the better
[10:33] Rose Springvale: yes we do Pip
[10:33] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Rose.
[10:34] Pip Torok: (my Q was directed to sonja for the record:)
[10:34] Moon Adamant: can i ask you then if tyou would officially represent AA in the GMP workgroup, then, Rose?
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: Is it the consensus of house to adopt the suggestion of Jamie on planning out 30 days?
[10:34] Rose Springvale: and yes, all estate owners have raw files. Yes of course moon, but not thursdays at 1 pm
[10:34] Pip Torok: i would consent …
[10:35] Soro Dagostino: I think that is an issue that is not on the floor.
[10:35] Soro Dagostino: Set it out 30 days for study?
[10:35] Moon Adamant: a bit tight, but i think the Wg can make it
[10:35] Sonja Strom: The AA sims could join together with the CDS right now, and then the planning issues could be considered together as a community.
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: Rose? 30 days fast enough? Moon? 30 days or we go outside Guild? Works for me.
[10:36] Moon Adamant: er no Sonja, i object to that
[10:36] Rose Springvale: 30 days stretches me
[10:36] Rose Springvale: as too long. but i’m okay
[10:36] Soro Dagostino: 45?
[10:36] Rose Springvale: no 15
[10:36] Sonja Strom: I am not saying it would have to be that way, but it could be.
[10:36] Moon Adamant: the GMP is a framework and all adittions to the territory must be made in accordance to it
[10:36] Soro Dagostino: Oh! kk
[10:36] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My only comment was really to congratulate the Chancellor’s proposal — politically, I totally agree with it, although I understand there will be some technical issues (for the Guild) and financial ones (for the treasury). But politically, aye, this was the kind of proposal this noble and august house has been expecting, and I thank the Chancellor for it
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: well, rose if 15-20 days in there is no action, I will start to take steps so we get an answer in 30 days either way, then..
[10:37] Soro Dagostino: Is it the consensus to move it to committee?
[10:37] Rose Springvale:
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes on the technical issues, Soro
[10:37] Sonja Strom: But Moon, right now AA does not fit into the GMP framework at all.
[10:37] Pip Torok: yes as far as im concerned
[10:37] Soro Dagostino: Hold please . . .
[10:37] Moon Adamant: that’s why we are studying it
[10:37] Soro Dagostino: That goes to the committee.
[10:37] Jamie Palisades looks around at the noble and august murals ,, and the clock
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[10:38] Soro Dagostino: That is the order of the chair — unless you oppose.
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: and they bring back two options on continguous land to the RA – and AA
[10:38] Soro Dagostino: Included.
[10:38] Soro Dagostino: Monastery
[10:38] Pip Torok breathes sigh of relief
[10:39] Soro Dagostino: Proposal?
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Clarification — are we talking about the current Guild Workgroup on the GMP, or a new Committee (from the RA) to study the AA/CDS merger?
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ah sorry, Soro
[10:39] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
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Re: RA meeting 19 April 2009 TRANSCRIPT (two parts)
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:35 pm
Soro Dagostino:I think it is in Jamies proposal
Jamie Palisades:i thought (per my text aboev) we were asking guild to propose two locations, with certain constraints, to be brought back here in four weeks
Gwyneth Llewelyn:Ok, Jamie, that’s clear then. thank you
Soro Dagostino:As to AA/CDS.
Soro Dagostino:Moving to Monastery
Soro Dagostino:Proposal?
Jamie Palisades::)
Jamie Palisades:shorter, happily
Jamie Palisades:let me just lead off by sharing with you this correspondence from the proposers.
Jamie Palisades:Dear Mr. Chancellor,
As Curator of the Monastery, I confirm you my interest in the opening of a homestead sim to install the Monastery. I confirm also that the selling of the current Monastery plot in Alpine Meadow can be used to finance this project. Doing that, I don’t have to buy the plot for the Monastery on the new sim, but only pay fees like now. The plot of the Monastery on the new sim will have almost the same number of prims than on the current sim (1404). 6 other plots of 234 prims will be available for sale and future owners will get the CDS citizenship. The rest of prims will be used for landscape, infrastructure and also as public reserve for special projects, like exhibitions or events. Their use is managed by the executif branch of CDS.
Jamie Palisades:… Monastery on Alpine Meadow will be set for sale. I would suggest an exchange of land, as the CDS maybe intends to redesign the plot of Alpine Meadow and to transform it in several small plots.
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key
[color=Sienna][i]Jamie Palisades:…My offer is valid if:
– the new sim is an homestead sim
– the new sim is situated south to Locus Amoenus and west to Alpine Meadow. I have already contacted people working on GMP in order to make the proposal compatible.[
– the name of the new sim includes the term Monastery. As definitive name, I suggest “Second Monastery”
Arria Perreault
Curator of the Monastery
Alpine Meadow, April 6th 2009
Jamie Palisades:—
Jamie Palisades:done
Soro Dagostino:Any discussion?
Jamie Palisades:I propose, essentially, that we accept. To be specific:
Jamie Palisades:1. CDS would buy the homestead sim, south to Locus Amoenus. On our account, but knowing that we have a tenant guarantee already lined up.
2. Double prim land with 7 seven plots, using the design that has been posted for some time now.
Jamie Palisades:Exact covenant to be written, but fairly close to the spirit of the AM covenant.
3. Virtus will do the terraforming and amenities for us, subject to our usual government signoffs, without cost. CDS will carry one month of tier without tenant rent.
Jamie Palisades:4. CDS will swap the current (AM) Monastery land for the new plot, and CDS will sell the old Monastery land on AM. We will seek consultation with Guild for 30 days on whether to re-zone that AM plot.
Jamie Palisades:…
Jamie Palisades:.. and done, except to note that I believethat the Monastery and AA proposals shouel not be done at different times.
Jamie Palisades:s a courtesy to both of our long-suffering proposers.
Pip Torok:i second jamies proposal
Soro Dagostino:So you want a postponement for 30 days?
Rose Springvale:/me raises hand
Soro Dagostino:Referral to the Guild for consulatation?
Soro Dagostino:Rose.
Jamie Palisades:i think we shoujld giveb Arria the couresty of a statement of intent now, but yes Soro.
Moon Adamant:ready if needed
Soro Dagostino:Pip — you are the member of the RA
Soro Dagostino:Jamie cannnot make motions.
Pip Torok:understood
Jamie Palisades:/me nods
Rose Springvale:/me waits
Soro Dagostino:Is it the consesus of the house to move the proposal to the committee for consulatation?
Soro Dagostino:Wait . . . sorry — Rose?
Sonja Strom:I am in favour of the proposal.
Pip Torok:it is
Gwyneth Llewelyn:(the committee being the Guild Workgroup, right? )
Rose Springvale:actually, that’s better. wanted to comment on homesteads
Gwyneth Llewelyn:If so, yes, I vote aye
Jamie Palisades:/me mulls this over – I think Guild already has done their job on this one, but ask them)
Pip Torok:aye
Rose Springvale:ah, if that’s the case, i’ve a coment
Soro Dagostino:Yes Rose.
Rose Springvale:As you all know, homestead sims have 1/4 of the prims of a regular sim
Rose Springvale:they also have a 20 avatar limit
Rose Springvale:and will eventually have script limits
Soro Dagostino:Hmmmm, that might be changed.
Rose Springvale:in June, the tier cost for homesteads increases from 95 to 125, which arria has accounted for
Rose Springvale:i dont’ think so
Rose Springvale:but what i wanted to say
Rose Springvale:is this… i’ve had occasion this week to hold what we expected to be a minor event on a homestead sim
Rose Springvale:and had avatars get that nasty “region full ” message
Jamie Palisades:this was Xinoxi’s new AA Library?
Arria Perreault:can I answer?
Rose Springvale:I’m of the opinion that this project, and CDS, would be better served by placing it on a full prim sim
Rose Springvale:yes
Pip Torok:it was
Soro Dagostino:Arria
Jamie Palisades:/me raises hand but AFTER Arria and Rose
Moon Adamant:raises hand fater Jamie
Moon Adamant:after* .)
Arria Perreault:ty
Arria Perreault:about events first: the Monastery doesnt organise many events and works with regular traffic. I know the limits of a homestead.
Arria Perreault:about fees: I know also that fact. Jamie asked me to calculate rates on the basis of the CDS average prims-price
Arria Perreault:that’s what I did
Rose Springvale:/me raises hand again
Arria Perreault:I have also set another price in my spreadsheet
Soro Dagostino:Thank you Arria —
Arria Perreault:http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key
Soro Dagostino:Rose.
Arria Perreault:so we can have a balance
Soro Dagostino:Time folk . . .
Arria Perreault:I have a last remark about homestead
Soro Dagostino:Brief?
Arria Perreault:they have to be seen in the GMP
Moon Adamant:/me raises hand again
Arria Perreault:I have shown last year thhat CDS can finance some homestead in the GMP
Soro Dagostino:Time
Soro Dagostino:Rose
Arria Perreault:done
Rose Springvale:i’m not questioning calculations at all.. only that i think, given costs.,. CDS would be better served by having that sim be afull sim.. it is strategically located between two full prim high uses sims. even if CDS keps the extras as public
Arria Perreault:all is in the forums
Soro Dagostino:Can that be discussed in committee?
Soro Dagostino:Jamie?
Jamie Palisades:I was in queue but maybe we take this to guild for the 30 days?
Soro Dagostino:Then Moon.
Moon Adamant:i would like nevertheless to make a technical remark for teh record
Soro Dagostino:Be brief
Moon Adamant:ok
Jamie Palisades:then I’ll put my question our, maybe for later resolution.
Moon Adamant:The Guild is aware of the Monastery proposal in all its detail
Moon Adamant:as To Rose’s objection
Moon Adamant:i would like to comment
Moon Adamant:that in a consolidated, organized territory
Soro Dagostino:It can be done during the committee discussions?
Moon Adamant:not all sims need necessarily tio have exact characteristics
Soro Dagostino:We are off topic.
Moon Adamant:for instance, AM was planned without a public gathering space
Moon Adamant:no, we aren’t
Soro Dagostino:The issue is to go to committee
Soro Dagostino:That is what was asked.
Jamie Palisades:/me nods. Soro, I’ll save mine for a Guild posting — but plan to back here for resolution in 30 days regardless.
Moon Adamant:/me bows and shuts up
Soro Dagostino:Thank you.
Soro Dagostino:That ends the Agenda .
Soro Dagostino:Motion to Adjourn?
Rose Springvale:excetp.. ahem
Rose Springvale:noooooo
Rose Springvale:lol
Jamie Palisades:what? anouncements?
Sonja Strom:lol
Rose Springvale:as i stated in the beginning!
Soro Dagostino:Ahhhh — ok Rose.
Rose Springvale:smile
Soro Dagostino:Sorry.
Rose Springvale:Two GREAT things coming up
Rose Springvale:NEXT week, on Sunday, the To Limani greek project opens in LA
Gwyneth Llewelyn::)
Moon Adamant:yay
Rose Springvale:That group has a full day of live music planned
Rose Springvale:and i want to encourage everyone to go support it. they’ve worked very hard, and its gorgeous!
Rose Springvale:Second!
Rose Springvale:on April 30, there will be a Queens day celebration in AM
Jamie Palisades:Ahem – Queen’s Birthday?
Jamie Palisades::D
Gwyneth Llewelyn:A Queens day?….
Rose Springvale:sponsoreed by Rudo, Ria, Naftali
Gwyneth Llewelyn:/me *scratches head*
Rose Springvale:for the netherlands
Gwyneth Llewelyn:AH
Arria Perreault:which Queen?
Moon Adamant:ahhhh
Gwyneth Llewelyn:hehe
Rose Springvale:as part of that
Jamie Palisades:Queen of the Nederlands
Rose Springvale:they wil have a “flea market”
Jamie Palisades:not Queen of Pundits, dear, sorry
Rose Springvale:so you can sell old things on tables on the streets of LA
Gwyneth Llewelyn:Don’t tell me Her Majesty created an avatar…
Rose Springvale:smile
Rose Springvale:w/e
Gwyneth Llewelyn:/me smiles @ Jamie
Rose Springvale:its music and drinking the way i’ve got it lol
Soro Dagostino:Is there more Rose?
Rose Springvale:i’ve a poster here, i’ll rez, but again please support
Jamie Palisades:well Nafi told me she’d invite HRH Juliana; we’ll see
Rose Springvale:and one last thing
Soro Dagostino:Yes.
Sonja Strom:What about ThePrincess?
Gwyneth Llewelyn:Sonja !!!!
Jamie Palisades:Beatrix?
Rose Springvale:Today is the last day of the Al Andalus Feria, and we’ve set up a welcome tent for the CDS
Moon Adamant:
Soro Dagostino:Rose?
Rose Springvale:so please join us if you can for horses, bull riding, flamenco, and fireworks
Rose Springvale:yes?
Soro Dagostino:Done?
Rose Springvale:now i am, yes, thanks
Soro Dagostino:A motion to adjourn is in order.
Gwyneth Llewelyn:I second that…
Pip Torok:the queen is Juliana btw jamie (not the present one!)
Soro Dagostino:Is there is a second?
Jamie Palisades:/me smiles
Soro Dagostino:Pip?
Pip Torok:seconded
Soro Dagostino:All in favor?
Pip Torok:aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn:aye
Soro Dagostino:aye
Sonja Strom:aye
RA Meeting 17 May 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun May 17, 2009 12:42 pm
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Ok everybody.
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Its time — we have a quorum
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yay
[9:13] Sonja Strom: yay
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: The Agenda is posted.
[9:14] Cindy Ecksol: and also in the ball underneath the table
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Jamie — you said you posted the proposed bills — I cannot find them
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn would love to see them too
[9:14] Jamie Palisades: hm hang on
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks!
[9:14] Jamie Palisades: (sim and city planning thread)
[9:15] Jamie Palisades: but will post the URLs here
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: Not the Exec?
[9:15] Soro Dagostino: REcorder is working?
[9:16] Cindy Ecksol: recorder is running
[9:16] Jamie Palisades: monastery here -> viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2395#p13241
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Will every one please consent to recording?
[9:16] Pip Torok: do we need to touch the recorder?
[9:16] Jamie Palisades: Al Andalus here -> viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394#p13242
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: I think you do.
[9:16] Pip Torok: I consent
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: I consent
[9:16] Sonja Strom: I consent
[9:17] Brian Livingston: I consent
[9:17] Jamie Palisades: and I consent (I never could myself find one of those boxes that works well , Soro, but Gwyn may know of a source)
[9:17] Cindy Ecksol: consent
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn consents and smiles
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: I tried to buy one — nada.
[9:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh gosh
[9:17] Pip Torok: where is the recorder?
[9:17] Cindy Ecksol: I have the code for this one, keep meaning to find the time to make it better
[9:18] Cindy Ecksol: it’s the black box under the table Pip
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Ok, you all have the Agenda?
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:18] Pip Torok: Thanks Cindy
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Are there any changes to the Agenda?
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might grumble a bit, Mr LRA…
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: I note that Jamie has posted the bills for AA and Monastery.
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: MMh do we have the transcript from last session?
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I was looking at the forums for it…
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And well, I’m pretty sure that on point III we would do discussion AND approval.
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: e.g. approving Jamie’s proposed bills
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: I do. I made a log from Chat. But its in a file on my laptop — and I don’t know how to give it to you all.
[9:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see…
[9:22] Cindy Ecksol: I promised to help Soro with that after this meeting
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: At the time I prepared the Agenda — I didn’t have the bills.
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we did plan to approve them anyway, even without them But ok. Since the two bills, for all purposes, are the approval of the discussions on point III,
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Motion to amend the Agenda to include an action item — approval of bills?
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine with the agenda, assuming we *will* discuss and vote Jamie’s bills
[9:23] Cindy Ecksol: motion
[9:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second
[9:23] Pip Torok: seconded
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Any discussion?
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[9:23] Pip Torok: aye
[9:24] Sonja Strom: aye
[9:24] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:24] Jamie Palisades: (afk a sec – teapot)
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ooops
[9:24] Sonja Strom: lol
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: sorry, the aye was for “in favour” of curse
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *course even
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: Brian?
[9:24] Sonja Strom often has what she says fall into a different place than intended
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[9:25] Cindy Ecksol loves the unexpected meanings
[9:25] Sonja Strom: lol
[9:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: Who would like to speak to the motions?
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: RA members and guest?
[9:26] Cindy Ecksol: you mean the agenda items, Soro?
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Slight question, we *will* discuss them a bit in III 1. b. and III 2. b., right?
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: Yes Cindy
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: Yes Gwyn
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, well, I’ll talk about it then
[9:27] Cindy Ecksol: ok…sorry, I misunderstood — you’re just looking for a list of interested parties right now
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:27] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[9:27] Cindy Ecksol: jamie, would that include you?
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: He is pouring tea.
[9:28] Cindy Ecksol: ok — probably should assume that he’s on you rlist then
[9:28] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: Ok, last Admin item on Agenda — Next meeting on 5/31. Any objections?
[9:29] Jamie Palisades smiles.
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I should be around, so no objections
[9:30] Sonja Strom: I do not have an objection, but will not be able to be there,
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
[9:30] Sonja Strom: so request a 7-day vote for anything that is voted on.
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Ok, that is the day.
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: Lets move to Chancellor’s comments or report.
[9:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please!
[9:31] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Are you going to give the report?
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Me??? lol no
[9:32] Jamie Palisades: Thank you. Better Q & A this month, I think More interested in answering any questions you have, than the usual blather SO if Gwyn has questions, let’s go with them
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… my only questions will be on III 1 b) and 2 b)
[9:32] Cindy Ecksol smiles and waits.
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: Most of what I know that’s new, with one exception, will come up under later agenda items here, also.
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: however, if I have the opportunity, a rumour has reached my ears that Port Spinoza was interested in a similar arrangement as we now have drafted for AA….
[9:33] Cindy Ecksol: just waiting for you to move on, Soro
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If there is anything we can hear about it, I’d love to!
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: Right then. Port Spinoza, and SLBA.
[9:33] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[9:33] Jamie Palisades: Briefly.
[9:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: You will recall we talked last mtg about SL Bar Association.
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: We’ve apporachd them; they are weighing options’ we are in the running.
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: I might add that one issue for them is taking free space form an RL law firm — sort of a politics issue.
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: *from
[9:34] Jamie Palisades: so, when we hear more, I will have more to report
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:35] Jamie Palisades: May or may not happen. Did you have any further impression on that one, Soro?
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: The Bar Board has to decide.
[9:36] Jamie Palisades: OK<> Port Spinoza
[9:36] Soro Dagostino: Rose did sent a letter.
[9:36] Soro Dagostino: To the Bar board
[9:36] Soro Dagostino: To the Port?
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: Yes. You can look up the sim name “Port Spinoza” — it is another historical themed sim – generally of the kind we’ve pursued.
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: It is part of the Cedar Island estate
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn was wondering if we were just talking about Port Spinoza, or the whole Cedar Island estate?
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: so, like SLNE, AA, and others, it is one of thjose projects (grin) that a CDS resident launched when they deicided they wanted to do their own thing and/or make money at it
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: we’re rather good at birthing profit for other people
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
[9:38] Pip Torok: good question gwyn … if its a funding issue it may well involve both!
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: Here is what you sgould know about P.S. for now
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmh yes, Pip
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: 1. No formal talks
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: 2. Just auggestion make reently, which may result in a chat with the estate owner
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok.
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: 3. Propobably only involve sthe sim of that name and the next one to the South on the map
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: 4. I understand they originalyl were designed IN ORDER TO fit in with CDS
[9:39] Jamie Palisades: 5. No data on financial feasibility yet
[9:40] Soro Dagostino: Who did them?
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: and finally 6. I think we woudl be best advised to finish whatever we do with the current two proposals first.
[9:40] Pip Torok: Jon i believe
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: Jon Seattle
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: and his friends
[9:40] Soro Dagostino: thanks.
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: roughly, our Guild
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: but premature to say more than “go look” and “maybe they’ll be interested”
[9:40] You decline MOON FEVER/MOONGLAS (188, 188, 30) from A group member named Russell Eponym.
[9:40] Jamie Palisades: done
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: Ok, any more on the Port?
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn agrees with 6 too — the question was more to understand if, at this stage, the RA ought to get the Guild do a change of the Masterplan in antecipation of those talks, or if it’s still premature.
[9:41] Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
[9:41] Jamie Palisades: We have no assetn from Jon yet, butof I get one I will ask the Guild
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, Cindy
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Jamie! Thanks.
[9:41] Cindy Ecksol: Masterplans do not get changed every time we have a new opportunity
[9:41] Moon Adamant: hello all
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmmh “take a look” then
[9:42] Pip Torok: hi Moon …
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: Hello Moon
[9:42] Cindy Ecksol: they are intended to form a framework and then be updated when something happens
[9:42] Moon Adamant: consent to be recorded
[9:42] Cindy Ecksol: but that’s a discussion for another time and place…
[9:42] Soro Dagostino: Welcome
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: The GMP assumes some new themes; this would be one; as the plan anticipates; some terrforming assessment would always be needed
[9:42] Jamie Palisades:
[9:42] Cindy Ecksol agrees with Jamie
[9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, good, so that’s one problem less to worry about.
[9:43] Soro Dagostino: General Master Plan — Item III, 1
[9:43] Jamie Palisades smile s- may I say a few words for level-setting?
[9:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please!
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Gwyn
[9:44] Soro Dagostino: YOu have the floor Jamie.
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: We have there maps, for AA+CDS, all with proponents, and all approved by the Guild as feasible. I suspect most of you have seen the display copies in CN. AA also has a set – and they too like them and differ internally
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: *three
[9:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: it remains for the RA to accept the recommendation of the guild …
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: to approve all 3, or less than all 3 if you folks want to oush it in one direction.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: .. then AA will need to do the same.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: You also have revised legislation to enact them.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: About which we can talk more if you like. Done. Perhaps Moon should present the Guild’s report here?
[9:45] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, please explain
[9:46] Jamie Palisades looks a question?
[9:46] Soro Dagostino: Revised Legislation?
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: Ag,
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: OK. Two RA acts are required, minimum
[9:46] Soro Dagostino: Is that what is before the body?
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: 1. Majorsim map issues are the RA’
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: ss jurisdiction
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: so you must act on the Guild’s recommendation
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: and
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: buying or taking a sim is too
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: so you must act on some kind of mrger, if there is to be one
[9:47] Soro Dagostino: Later?
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: My draft bill from a month ago received comments …
[9:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: From Pat, right?
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: notably from AA, but also others
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah ok
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Gwyn.
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: so I have changed it, and it is posted here ->
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394#p13240
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: and Pat’s question is here
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394#p13242
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I hope we can answer it too
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: which we could discuss if you like
[9:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Please!
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion to approve.
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not yet, Soro — I’d like to clarify at least the issue of “double citizenship and double votes”
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: still, my advice woudl be a. hear Moon, b, approve maps, c. debate merger motion
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[9:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose Jamie’s ‘advice’ as a motion
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: get the “low hanging fruit”
[9:49] Soro Dagostino: Then we can discuss the issue.
[9:49] Brian Livingston: Request: Cna we get the maps displayed in this chamber before the vote?
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Moon?
[9:50] Moon Adamant: what i am looking for
[9:50] Moon Adamant: yes, just a sec
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Is there a second
[9:50] Cindy Ecksol: not sure what exactly the motion is
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol: for a particular bill?
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: The first one.
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: AA
[9:51] Cindy Ecksol: ok, second
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Discussion . . in order.
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Moon —
[9:52] Moon Adamant: yes?
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: A presentation as the proponent
[9:52] Moon Adamant: ok
[9:52] Moon Adamant: so hmmmm
[9:52] Moon Adamant: first of all it’s important to understand that the AA terrian is continuos and an unity
[9:53] Moon Adamant: with exception of the void Almunecar
[9:53] Moon Adamant: Also, it is important to know that the void Al Garnata has building of a classic design
[9:54] Moon Adamant: for that reason, we chose Al Garnata alqways to be the ‘hinge’ by which the two territories are joined
[9:54] Moon Adamant: almunecar being placed wherever it best suits the plan
[9:54] Moon Adamant: in option 1 (bottom lefT)
[9:54] Moon Adamant: which is perhaps the most economic solution
[9:54] Moon Adamant: al garnata is placed north of LA
[9:55] Moon Adamant: and Almunecar – which can be completelly terraformed – is placed north of CN
[9:55] Moon Adamant: the comunication is via cardo
[9:55] Sonja Strom: Cardo?
[9:55] Moon Adamant: this option assumes that in time we will do a pelagic band and that the sim next to Alhambra will give it a coastline
[9:56] Moon Adamant: sorry, Decumanum
[9:56] Pip Torok: the north2southstreet in CN Sonja
[9:56] Pip Torok: sorry!
[9:56] Sonja Strom: ok, thanks
[9:57] Moon Adamant: Proposal two alsos uses the connection through the decumanum, but in this case directly through CN-Al Garnata
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Any more?
[9:57] Moon Adamant: yes, please bear with me
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: of course
[9:58] Moon Adamant: almunecar is placed to give Alhambra its coastline on thi s map – but it could be placed anywhere else
[9:58] Moon Adamant: Proposal 3 makes the connection thrugh the Cardo (E-W main road in CN
[9:59] Moon Adamant: and connects directly with Al garnata and the alhambra village. Again, almunecar is placed where we want
[9:59] Moon Adamant: this proposal needs
[9:59] Moon Adamant: a vertical band (in terms of north-south) of two sims wide
[9:59] Moon Adamant: one to continue to expand teh roman cluster, and the other to work as a transitional space
[10:00] Moon Adamant: in the other options
[10:00] Moon Adamant: 1 and 2
[10:00] Moon Adamant: the roamn cluster expands E-W
[10:00] Moon Adamant: while AA can expand mainly N and E
[10:00] Moon Adamant: doubts?
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: How should we proceed?
[10:01] Moon Adamant: well
[10:02] Moon Adamant: the Guild has approve dthe feasibility of the three solutions
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I understand, for now, the RA ought to approve these three
[10:02] Moon Adamant: and so brings them to RA for approval
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Is that the motion?
[10:02] Cindy Ecksol: point oforder soro?
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sure (or rather, I second Jamie, who suggested the same)
[10:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry, Cindy
[10:02] Soro Dagostino: Yes Cindy
[10:02] Cindy Ecksol: I think we need TWO motions
[10:03] Cindy Ecksol: first motion to approve merger with AA
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: Ok?
[10:03] Cindy Ecksol: second motion to pick a plan
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ahhh I see
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: hm
[10:03] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: could do in either order
[10:03] Cindy Ecksol: after all, if we don’t agree to the merger, there will be no plan
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: and my preference woudl be to approve all three, but with a ranking
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, very logically so
[10:03] Cindy Ecksol: well, true jamie — but then if second motion fails, the first is….hanging
[10:03] Jamie Palisades shrugs, smiles, however you like
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: but I’m not hung up on that.
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: shall I propose thefirst motion?
[10:04] Soro Dagostino: Cindy are you making a motion to sever the question?
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: if the will of the RA is to agree with the Guild you smiply could appprove the maps subject to the merger occurring
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: ah, that would work too…
[10:04] Soro Dagostino: That is the motion on the flooor.
[10:04] Cindy Ecksol: yes, soro, I think we need to or we’ll spend forever on this
[10:04] Pip Torok: seconded
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Already before the body
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol: wait….what?
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: (there ya go)
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami raises had to ask speak when you get to discussing merger with AA
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Are you ready for the vote.
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol: wait!
[10:05] Cindy Ecksol: what IS the motion????
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: (just checking, i THINK this is a vote to appprove the maps subject to the merger occurring)
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: )per the Guild’s recommendation)
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Yes — that is what I understand.
[10:05] Sonja Strom has looked for the motion and does not see it having been made
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I *hope* that’s the motion hehe
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: no….
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: no such motion was made
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: that was a suggestion from jamie
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: can we start over please?
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: I thought i seconded a motion to sever the question
[10:06] Jamie Palisades chuckles, well I cant make motions here, thank god, so someone get to it or come up with something else
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[10:06] Cindy Ecksol: or perhaps I MADE a motion to sever the question
(continued below)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: RA Transcript: 17 May 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun May 17, 2009 12:44 pm
[10:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Motion: to approve the GMP as proposed by the Guild, subject to the merger with AA to go ahead.
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Wait one please.
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Trying to find the motion
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: I know we had one. Discussion and presentaiton followed.
[10:08] Jamie Palisades: ((I;m goign to boldly suggestin that cindy was right, there was none, until Gwyn spoke, and so now hers is in order if seconded)
[10:08] Cindy Ecksol: yes, to discuss the AA billl…
[10:08] Cindy Ecksol: but I made a motion to sever that question
[10:08] Cindy Ecksol: [10:04] Soro Dagostino: Cindy are you making a motion to sever the question?
[10:04] Palisades: if the will of the RA is to agree with the Guild you smiply could appprove the maps subject to the merger occurring
[10:04] Ecksol: ah, that would work too…
[10:04] Dagostino: That is the motion on the flooor.
[10:08] Jamie Palisades: ahhhhhhh
[10:08] Cindy Ecksol:
[10:09] Cindy Ecksol: so are we severing or not? that seems to be the motion
[10:09] Jamie Palisades smiles, thanks Jupiter, Zeus and Demeter that he is no longer LRA
[10:09] Soro Dagostino: No severeance — no motion
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami:
[10:09] Cindy Ecksol: ok, let’s try this again.
[10:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please
[10:09] Cindy Ecksol: I move that we SEVER the question: vote separately on the plans and then on the merger
[10:09] Soro Dagostino: What I thougt was a motion was not.
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Seconds Cindy’s motion.
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol: thank you.
[10:10] Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
[10:10] You decline Blues Fabrik Sternberg LIVE Musi, Xenosaur (76, 139, 47) from A group member named RogerPaul Loon.
[10:10] Pip Torok: i move to vote
[10:10] Soro Dagostino: Call the question. Second?
[10:10] Cindy Ecksol: yes
[10:10] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Pip — no need to discuss that
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: all in favor.
[10:11] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:11] Brian Livingston: aye
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:11] Pip Torok: aye
[10:11] Sonja Strom: aye
[10:11] Cindy Ecksol: great
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Opposed
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Motion carries.
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Adoption of Maps?
[10:11] Cindy Ecksol: new motion: I move that we approve the plans for AA presented by Guild subject to approval of the merger by RA
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that
[10:11] Pip Torok: second
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: REady for the question?
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol: discussion, please
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes.
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[10:12] Soro Dagostino: Than Gwyn
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol: do we want to approve all of the plans, and if so who choose the final plan
[10:12] Sonja Strom: What does it mean that we “approve all of the plans”?
[10:12] Cindy Ecksol nods
[10:13] Soro Dagostino: Moon?
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: sonja, seems to me that it would mean that someone else would decide which of the three would be implemented
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn withdraws her need to talk, Cindy asked the very same question I had
[10:13] Cindy Ecksol: we can cede that responsibility if we wish…..but I’m not sure that’s the right thing to do
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Referendum?
[10:13] Brian Livingston thinks Cindy read several minds with that question
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn smiles at Brian and agrees
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: do the residents of AA have a preference for one plan or another?
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand they have their own set
[10:14] Sonja Strom: A referendum question could make sense in this case.
[10:14] Moon Adamant: have no idea who approves the final plan, but i suppose AA must be consulted as wel in this stage
[10:14] Cindy Ecksol: *sigh*
[10:14] Jamie Palisades: may I answer cindy?
[10:14] Brian Livingston: I would imagien it falls to the executive unless the RA steps in.
[10:14] Sonja Strom: Perhaps if 1) We choose to have AA join us,
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: I believe the three plans were “generally apporved”
[10:15] Sonja Strom: and 2) AA chooses to join us,
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: Then were to be submitted to AA for review and choice.
[10:15] Jamie Palisades waits for sonja to finish
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Sonja?
[10:16] Sonja Strom: we could have a referendum question for the next election that would ask the citizens of all 10 sims where they would like the geographic joining to be.
[10:16] Sonja Strom: done, thanks
[10:16] Jamie Palisades raises hand
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: 3 things.
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: to cindy:
[10:16] Moon Adamant: hmmm our referendum laws do not apply on AA
[10:16] Jamie Palisades waits
[10:16] Moon Adamant: just a comment, sorry
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Jamie you have the floor.
[10:17] Sonja Strom: Moon, if the AA sims join the CDS, then the CDS laws will apply to them.
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: Thank you, first to cindy’s Q:
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: I got a detailed report AA residents were opinated and euqally spit, just like ours
[10:17] Soro Dagostino: Sonja — please wait for Jamie.
[10:17] Sonja Strom: (Here I am not talking about the geographic joining of sims, which for me is a little bit different)
[10:17] Sonja Strom: ok
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: *equally split,( chuckle)
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: so
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: THEIR decision
[10:17] Jamie Palisades: would be made according to their process
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: which is consensus ratified by the EO
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: now, to sonja;s Q:
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: I advice against a raucuous referendum on this topic
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: it;s not a yes or no
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn *snickers*
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: not easily driven to decision in a vote
[10:18] Sonja Strom: I think maybe there is a misunderstanding about what I am saying.
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: perhaps
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: let me make my third and last point
[10:19] Jamie Palisades: here is what I ask you to consider doing
[10:19] Jamie Palisades: four steps
[[10:19] Jamie Palisades: 1. RA approves maps today — or fewer than 3 if you disagree with the Guild
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: Motion 1
[10:19] Jamie Palisades: 2. This becomes part of our offer to AA, and they can accept or reject
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: Motion 2
[10:20] Jamie Palisades: 3. if they accept one, we are done; if not, then we are back to multiple mutually acceptable choices
[10:20] Jamie Palisades: in which case
[10:20] Jamie Palisades: 4. it comes back here – because major map changes are your competency, senators, not mine
[10:20] Jamie Palisades: done, thanks
[10:20] Cindy Ecksol: thank you for clarifying the process you expect to follow, jamie
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: The LRA believes the Motions are two.
[10:21] Jamie Palisades: subject to your approval !
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: Approval ov the Guild’s plans.
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Approval of their being presented to AA for review and approval of one plan.
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Is that the sense of the body?
[10:22] Cindy Ecksol: soro, where do you see Jamie’s “merger proposal” coming into this?
[10:22] Cindy Ecksol: we still have to deal with the “politics” as well as the plans
[10:23] Sonja Strom: I would like to explain more what I was talking about before.
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, we’re supposed to settle the politics
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And please, Sonja, I’d like to hear you…
[10:23] Cindy Ecksol: yes….but neither Soro nor Jamie addressed that issue
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mean, aren’t they?
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn *chuckles*
[10:23] Sonja Strom: I don’t see the maps as crucial to the AA sims joining us. They can join the CDS and then we can decide how and when the sims would be joined geographically.
[10:24] Sonja Strom: From what Jamie said I guess we could have a map be included in the process of approval of the AA sims joining the CDS. That is one option. However, I don’t see that as necessary.
[10:24] Sonja Strom: They could join with us politically without joining geographically at first, and then we could decide on the geographic joining together as one larger community.
[10:24] Sonja Strom: done, thanks
[10:24] Cindy Ecksol: Sonja, the problem is that AA won’t join unless they know what the plans are that we’re willing to go along with
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: If I may, sonja, yes, AA’s EO rejected that option.
[10:24] Pip Torok: quite sonja!
[10:24] Sonja Strom: Ah, ok
[10:24] Sonja Strom: I didn’t know that.
[10:25] Cindy Ecksol: *smiles*
[10:25] Moon Adamant: i have a technical doubt which is i don’t know if our election software is prepared for other than yes/no questions at referenda
[10:25] Sonja Strom: So the AA sims are requiring a map as a part of the offer for them to join us.
[10:25] Cindy Ecksol: can’t blame them — I wouldn’t want to turn over my sims for unspecified terraforming either
[10:25] Moon Adamant: quite:-)
[10:26] Cindy Ecksol: so there IS a motion on the table:
[10:26] Cindy Ecksol: [10:11] Cindy Ecksol: new motion: I move that we approve the plans for AA presented by Guild subject to approval of the merger by RA
[10:11] Llewelyn seconds that
[10:26] Cindy Ecksol: are we ready to vote on that?
[10:26] Soro Dagostino: I don’t know.
[10:26] Pip Torok: I think we are rteady to vote on that
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would be… because Sonja’s most excellent suggestion can still be used if we have three proposals and AA has to pick one of them
[10:27] Sonja Strom: I am wondering when you say “we approve the plans,” this means we approve of all three of them?
[10:27] Moon Adamant: would be nice
[10:27] Pip Torok: we mean exactly that imo sonja
[10:27] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: I understand the motion to mean that the RA would accept any of the three, if AA expressed a sole preference for one,
[10:27] Sonja Strom: So AA would be who makes the decision?
[10:27] Cindy Ecksol: in conjuncton with the exec
[10:27] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aha. No
[10:27] Sonja Strom: Which plan to chose?
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: so yes to sonja
[10:28] Jamie Palisades: after all it;s a two party, two step decision
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, yes to Sonja
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We give three choices, they pick one.
[10:28] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[10:28] You decline Rancho Pacifico Resort Marina Front Entrance from A group member named Harper Messmer.
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I think it’s reasonable. They rely on us to do the planning work and have confidence; but they make the last call. I like it.
[10:28] Cindy Ecksol: OR they may come back with something else that we will have to evaluate
[10:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: True
[10:29] Moon Adamant: hope not
[10:29] Soro Dagostino: And if they do, we agree to merger?
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: no….
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: we haven’t done that yet….
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: let’s vote on this first
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: there is some discussion on the BIG bill…
[10:29] Soro Dagostino: That is a call for the question?
[10:29] Cindy Ecksol: please
[10:29] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn totally agrees with Cindy! This is juat a *minor* issue, so I second
[10:30] Brian Livingston: Please restate the motion, for the sake of clarity.
[10:30] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: [10:11] Cindy Ecksol: new motion: I move that we approve the plans for AA presented by Guild subject to approval of the merger by RA
[10:11] Llewelyn seconds that
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn got it
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:30] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?/
[10:30] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:30] Pip Torok: aye
[10:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
[10:31] Brian Livingston: aye
[10:31] Soro Dagostino: Oppposed?
[10:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn points out the long silence
[10:32] Sonja Strom is not opposed
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:32] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: bravo!
[10:32] Cindy Ecksol: new motion: I move to adopt Jamie’s Al Andalus bill as proposed in the forum: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394#p13242
[10:32] Brian Livingston: I have concerns, so discussion requested
[10:32] Soro Dagostino: Second
[10:32] Cindy Ecksol: needs a second
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh yes. Not without discussion.
[10:33] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — is that a second?
[10:33] Moon Adamant deletes the maps
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would move to discuss a LOT first
[10:33] Jamie Palisades: ready to discuss when you are
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Unless, of course,
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy just wants to adopt it in *general*
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: with which I would agree
[10:33] Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: I just want to put it on th etable, guys.
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: can we have a second please?
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I second on that assumption, Cindy
[10:34] Cindy Ecksol: whew!
[10:34] Cindy Ecksol: good, let’s discuss!
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: YES!
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: Discussion.
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: Soro, shall I start with Pat’s posted questions?
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mr LRA, I know you called earlier who wished to speak on this,
[10:34] Jamie Palisades: As I think a lof of other aspects, we talked about before
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: Jamie — you are the proponent.
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: but neither Pat nor Moon were available
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I wonder if Pat would also like to be allowed to speak
[10:35] Soro Dagostino: You may
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: Well, let me suggest that I anser Pat first, then we see what else people wish to discuss
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And sorry for being out of order
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, please, jamie
[10:35] Soro Dagostino: everything is out of order today
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: Very well. And nice to see you Pat
[10:35] Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to speak on this if possible. but i’d like to hear jamie first
[10:36] Soro Dagostino: Jamie — you have the floor.
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: Pat says three things.
I was sorry to see you sell recently; I hope you’re retaining your land or citizenship here? If not, I’d regret losing you. But your counsel is
available to us in any case.
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: so let me respond to the questions you raised
[10:36] Patroklus Murakami: i have a plot in NFS so, still a citizen
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: First, he suggests that the constitution needs work to retrofit AA into it.
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: (ah good)
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: I am not sure that any action is needed other than a 2/3rds majority for that
part of the AA-CDS merger bill that affects constitutional issues — but will
be very grateful for his eyes and any others on the issues, and excpect we
could make those conforming changes rather easily. Assuming AA accepts our
offer, and assuming we make one.
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: not to brush it off, but making any conforming changes sounds like a fairly easy exercise to me
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: that’s 1
[10:37] Jamie Palisades: Second, Pat asks how AA would choose its first RA members.
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: He opposes giving
them any, but just in case we do, he wants to know if they’re using a democratic election. I am no expert on AA law, but I gather they do NOT use ballot widgets, factions, Sainte Lague and Borda this and that .
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: Letme treport that, in drafting this …
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: I asked if they select in an election. They said no, they have a town-meeting consensus process, rather like Cedar Island once
advocated. This is a proposed merger.
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: While they plan to join our process,
if it occurs, I do not propose that we tell them how to do their business up front Soooo I respectfully decline any suggestion that we do so.
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: That’s #2
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: point of information. i don’t oppose AA having RA reps
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: as long as they make it through your facion system
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: To the third point
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: Finally, and probably Pat’s main point, he does not like the special selection, and the “converting dual citizens” device I drafted. Fair enough. Let me tell you why they are there.
[10:40] Patroklus Murakami: i didn’t say that jamie. please don’t put words in my mouth
[10:40] Soro Dagostino: Gentlemen
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: Plently of time to debate. I apologize for any inference to the contrary
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: on the business of how to selecte, and how to count
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: My prior draft suggested two things in this regard.
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: One is that, as the combined citizenship will increase the number of RA seats, we go ahead and have AA fill them now. (As opposed to join us now and maybe you get represented later.)
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: To me that seemed more consistent with a merger than a hostile takeover — and more than a few AA citizens expressed the same view in their meetings, I am told. Hold that thought a moment please.
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: The second (and final) issue is that the number must be calculated.
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: How many more RA members?
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: eh, apologies that this IS complex.
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: whici is silly
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: as we are really only talkign abuot a small number
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: but that’s diplomacy :”D
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: In my first draft in April I suggested that we just calculate the new RA number, based on combined CDS and AA citizens using CDS citizenship rules, and let them fill whatever that increment is .. but with a minimum of 2, to give them some assurance that we will not swamp them (given that their own citizen count is 31 at last check).
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: now, I changed that in this last draft, because AA replied and said it was unfair for all the dual citizens to automatically be erased from their headcount. In other words, in the apportionment between old CDS and AA, my first method credits all dual citizens to CDS.
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: So I wrote the revision about dual citizen counts to appease their fear.
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aaah
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: Tjhere’s still a backstop minimum, asyou can see.
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: and honestly?
[10:42] Jamie Palisades: I doubt it all matters
[10:43] Jamie Palisades: but
[10:43] Jamie Palisades: are we to eat them, or merge with them? TAHt imnpression WILL matter
[10:43] Jamie Palisades: done, thanks, and thank you for your patience Patroklus.
[10:43] You decline Circe’s Memphis , Laurel Arts Isle (207, 92, 22) from A group member named Circe Broom.
[10:43] Soro Dagostino: Pat?
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami: i understand that the motivation for the proposal is entirely honorable
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: and that the concern is to bring in AA without ‘eating them
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: we also need to respect their traditions
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: as well as insist on respect for our own
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: so my disagreeement is with the detail, not the principle
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: AA should have their own RA members as a transitional measure
[10:44] Naughty Nibbles Black Forest Slice whispers: Yum!
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: they should elect them in a way that makes sense for them
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: but we must also look at the detail of the proposal
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: my principle objection is to CDS/AA residents, in effect, getting two votes
[10:45] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:45] Patroklus Murakami: more than other CDS or AA residents
(continued below)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: RA Transcript: 17 May 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun May 17, 2009 12:45 pm
[10:46] Strummer Swansong: Strummer swansong is playing at 11 SLT….hope you can make it…pls check the NC attached for LM
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: people with land in both communities have already contributed to the selecton of this RA
[10:46] Strummer Swansong: owned by Strummer Swansong gave you ‘strummer wc sun 17th may’ ( http://slurl.com/secondlife/Paradisiac/68/38/23 ).
[10:46] Pip Torok is such a dual citizen and agrees with Pat
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: if they also take part in selecting the additional RA members doesn’t that mean their voice counts for more than other CDS and AA residents?
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: i’m sure that isn’t really the intention
[10:46] Jamie Palisades smiles. Me too. I’d welcome a fair suggestion that you think AA will accept.
[10:46] Soro Dagostino: What of reqesting the CDS/AA folk to define which area they attorn to?
[10:47] Patroklus Murakami: well, there are other potential solutions
[10:47] Patroklus Murakami: we could hold an election for AA citizens to choose their representatives
[10:47] Patroklus Murakami: but i’m afraid CDS/AA dual citizens would not be eligible
[10:47] Cindy Ecksol: /mem wonders who “we” might be
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “we” the RA, we set elections
[10:48] Cindy Ecksol:
[10:48] Jamie Palisades: (Soro that is what my bill did, but pat’s correct that this does not reduce the number already attributed to CDS RA members .. and I asked them about an electuon and they declined)
[10:48] Patroklus Murakami: or we could hold a special election for the whole of the CDS and AA to elect a new combined RA for the merged entity
[10:48] You decline AQUASTAR LOUNGE, Mephit (186, 184, 62) from A group member named SD Atlass.
[10:48] ZDiva Sorbet’s Wearable Controller: THANK YOU all for your well-wishes and sweet words whilst I recovered from one of the nastiest sore throats in history. I am back, and ready to entertain! At 4pm today I’ll be at Grafton Mall (LM and details to follow) for my only performance of the day. Tuesday evening I’ll be at the Star Bar…and then that’s all for performances until Wednesday the 27th! Hope to see you today!
[10:48] Soro Dagostino: Hmmm, where does that leave us?
[10:48] Patroklus Murakami: sorry, i’ve only seen the proposal today so not had much time to think of solutions
[10:49] Moon Adamant: why don’t AA appoint 2 reps pro term untill a general election can be called in both communities?
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The “special election” would be the more obvious way — it would be as if two (or more) seats were left vacant, and everybody would be allowed to vote for it. But …. just have one vote
[10:49] Soro Dagostino: The Motion onlyspeaks to merger.
[10:49] Soro Dagostino: Isn’t this premature?
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, Soro, and NOT approving Jamie’s draft bill of the merger?
[10:49] Jamie Palisades: That’s certainly possible, Moon, and will only get trashed in AA if they think they count desserves more, i guess
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[10:50] Soro Dagostino: Cidny
[10:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* too
[10:50] Brian Livingston: We can’t allow dual citizens to vote twice, in effect creating a situation where they have more of an influence over the makeup of the RA. It flies in the face of our democratic principles
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: two questions:
[10:50] Brian Livingston pieps down
[10:50] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn nest
[10:50] Cindy Ecksol: 1. who in AA gets to vote on the merger?
[10:51] Cindy Ecksol: 2. who in AA gets to choose the AA reps
[10:51] Cindy Ecksol: Jamie laid out a process that seems to cover both, but I think perhaps if we look at them separately we may be able to clarify more easily
[10:52] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:52] Cindy Ecksol: so are there any objects to ALL current AA citizens getting to vote on the merger?
[10:52] Cindy Ecksol: *objections
[10:53] Pip Torok: doews that include double/cits cindy?
[10:53] Patroklus Murakami: i think it’s problematic
[10:53] Soro Dagostino: The LRA is at a disadvantage — I could not find the proposal
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: yes.
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: The [additional] vacant [RA] positions will be filled by [a process designated by AA management, consistent with AA law, from among persons who are (a) new CDS citizens from AA will be counted and (b) any “converting dual citizens.”] [The newly selected RA members shall] serve [either (a)] the remainder of the current RA term [or (b), if they are selected less than one month prior to the closing date for RA candidacy in the next RA general election, for the remainder of the current term plus the next term.]
[10:53] Jamie Palisades: that;s it
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: whoops…sorry, wrong paste…
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394#p13242
[10:53] Jamie Palisades: (and I will raise my hand for a prodedural point after the current queue of 2 or 3 is exhausted)
[10:53] Cindy Ecksol: for the whole bill
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: um AA citizens voting on merger?
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: I am lost here
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: they do
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: not
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: vote
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: there
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: excuse me…..
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: hmn? ARab consultation traditions, town meetings
[10:54] Soro Dagostino: Where does the body want to go with this.
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: I misspoke — they do not vote, they contribute to consensus
[10:54] Jamie Palisades: as some of you know
[10:54] Cindy Ecksol: no election…
[10:54] Sonja Strom is noticing a couple of hands up in the room
[10:55] Jamie Palisades: Queue, Mr LRA?
[10:55] Gwyneth Llewelyn notices them too
[10:55] Soro Dagostino: Sonja
[10:55] Sonja Strom: Thank you,
[10:55] Sonja Strom: I would be ok with AA choosing their own 2 representatives for the remainder of this term – it would only be for a couple of RA meetings.
[10:55] Sonja Strom: (done thanks
[10:55] You decline New Arena, The GreenOgham (32, 86, 28) from A group member named Ayjla Onmura.
[10:55] You decline Pier’s Paradise from A group member named RockPianoman Pienaar.
[10:55] Moon Adamant: i agree with Sonja
[10:55] Brian Livingston: *raises bunny paw*
[10:56] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:56] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[10:56] Moon Adamant: sensible way
[10:56] Moon Adamant: and Guild meeting in 5 minutes at NFS School be there or be square
[10:56] Gwyneth Llewelyn *giggles*
[10:56] You decline Cascadia Harmonics, Cascadia (233, 20, 29) from A group member named Fyrm Fouroux.
[10:57] Moon Adamant: meet you all there later .)
[10:57] Sonja Strom notices at least one hand and bunny paw in the air
[10:57] Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[10:57] Soro Dagostino: What do you want to do?
[10:57] Soro Dagostino: Pat
[10:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn grumbles
[10:57] Sonja Strom: *lol*
[10:57] Patroklus Murakami: after the others soro
[10:57] Cindy Ecksol: we really ought to stay and finish this
[10:57] Patroklus Murakami: i don’t want to get hit by gwyn or brian
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Motion: to extend the discussion (yes, we also have the Monastery next)
[10:58] Cindy Ecksol: second
[10:58] Soro Dagostino: I cannot see the hands — would you please note in chat
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and no, i wanted to talk about something else actually, but I think that the motion to extend is important at this moment)
[10:58] Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[10:58] Soro Dagostino: Cidy
[10:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[10:58] Jamie Palisades: and I rewen mine, which cam after cindy’s first
[10:58] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn next
[10:58] Jamie Palisades: *renew
[10:59] Cindy Ecksol: just wanted to ask Sonja:
[10:59] Brian Livingston: *raises paw*
[10:59] Soro Dagostino: Cnidy
[10:59] Cindy Ecksol: sonja, what if the merger does not occur until after the new term starts
[10:59] Soro Dagostino: Jamie then biran
[10:59] Jamie Palisades: Gwyn/Sonja done?
[10:59] Cindy Ecksol: are you still ok with AA ‘selecting its own reps”?
[10:59] Jamie Palisades: oops, cindy/sonja I meant
[11:00] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn
[11:00] Soro Dagostino: /
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Now, I understand that “temporary solutions” are not to be shunned at. However, even though the RA is sovereign in its decisions, it’s also subject to the SC to review the constitutionality of what the RA decides.
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: My suggestion would be to “go by the book” instead of inventing new rules. We have the case of “special elections”
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Which are called when seats are vacant that nobody is able to fill them
[11:00] Gwyneth Llewelyn: This could be seen as a similar situation:
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The RA has expanded, since it will have more citizens
[11:01] Jamie Palisades: ugh
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A few more seats (at least 2) will be vacated
[11:01] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, out time has run out.
[11:01] Jamie Palisades: we could indeed
[11:01] Gwyneth Llewelyn: AA citizens WILL be citizens of *the whole of the CDS*
[11:01] Jamie Palisades: was my hand raised and not recognized, Mr LRA?
[11:01] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[11:01] Sonja Strom: To answer Cindy’s question, it would be less ideal if the merger happened after the next election, true, but in that case I think I would still be ok with it.
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That would be an alternative — AA has 60 days to think about our proposal anyway
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So they could simply all vote on the next term
[11:02] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No need for “special rules”
[11:02] Jamie Palisades: ahem )
[11:02] Jamie Palisades: Two things
[11:02] Soro Dagostino: Since you don’t seem to need me. I’ll be going
[11:02] Jamie Palisades: first here is why I do not agree, respectfully, wuith Gwyneth
[11:02] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[11:03] Soro Dagostino: Then Brian
[11:03] Jamie Palisades: to force that kind of special election here does one of two thigns
[11:03] Jamie Palisades: either it makes AA candidates run against CDS candidates for the (say) 2 new seats
[11:03] Jamie Palisades: to join the 7 existing from CDS
[11:03] Jamie Palisades: or
[11:03] Jamie Palisades: it forced AA to run its own election
[11:03] Jamie Palisades: while it is still its own place with its own rules
[11:04] Patroklus Murakami still has hand raised. after brian?
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: both seem, simply, rude to me. Now, I will offer an alternative
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: if you are minded to approve this
and to let AA select its reps
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: but the double counting is a fear
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: why not approve it but specify two reps period
elminate all the double counting
leave the rest as it stands
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: .. let me point out
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: RA is being asked to approve an offer
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: whatever its terms
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: AA can accept or reject
[11:04] Jamie Palisades: so
[11:05] Jamie Palisades: put your best deal on the table, is my advice, assuming you wish to see the marger actually happen
[11:05] Jamie Palisades: I would not advise getting obsessed with the
[11:05] Jamie Palisades: shape of the lace doilies on the table
[11:05] Soro Dagostino: Jamie — are you done?
[11:05] Jamie Palisades: if you can’t get food on it. Yes, now
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pushy, pushy, Mr Chancellor “don’t be obsessed with democracy”
[11:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: tsk
[11:05] Soro Dagostino: Brian
[11:05] Soro Dagostino: Then Pat
[11:05] Brian Livingston: Thank you sir
[11:06] Jamie Palisades: Democracy, the Romans would tell us, does not require
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: whatever OCD is….
[11:06] Soro Dagostino: Brian
[11:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* for later again
[11:06] Pip Torok: Aren’t we arguing anothewr’s issue? I mean double-citizenry is an issue if/only if AA says it IS an issue
[11:06] Soro Dagostino: BRian
[11:06] Soro Dagostino: Then Pat
[11:07] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — then Pip
[11:07] Brian Livingston: I don’t see the concern about hte influence of dual citizens on the nwely expanded RA as being OCD or hyperbole, but rather a basic democratic principle, that each citizen’s vote and influence is the same as his or her bfellow citizen’s. By countign hte votes of dual citizens, we are magnifyign their voice and influnece, and again, it flies int he face of our democratic principles. I am eager to see a merger occur, but i cannot support it if it compromises our democratic foundation
[11:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hear, hear
[11:08] Soro Dagostino: Pat?
[11:08] Brian Livingston: I don’t see a problem with dual citizens voting for the merger, as tehy hav a financial stake in the matter, but when it comes to our representation, no I can’t vote for it.
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: we need to uphold the consititutional requirement that “The Representative Assembly (RA) is a body of democratically elected factions which represent different ideological views of its citizens”
[11:09] Soro Dagostino: Excuse me
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: sorry?
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: mmh?
[11:09] Soro Dagostino: To brian
[11:09] Brian Livingston is done with his comments
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oh
[11:09] Brian Livingston: I cede the floor
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: ty brian
[11:09] Soro Dagostino: Now Gwyn
[11:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No, Pat first, Mr LRA
[11:09] Patroklus Murakami: i have a few more words
[11:09] Soro Dagostino: TY
[11:10] Soro Dagostino: Pat
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: look, we need to respect our own principles as well as those of AA
[11:10] Jamie Palisades smiles, listens
[11:10] Patroklus Murakami: we can’t just suspend the idea that we elect RA members for a month or so because it’s convenient
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami: nor can we ignore double counting in whatever form it might take
[11:11] Jamie Palisades: (I’ll ask to join the queue after Gwyn & whoever else)
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami: i think we should, in dialogue with AA, try to find a way in which both traditions can be respected when choosing additional reps for the RA
[11:11] Soro Dagostino: Yes Jamie
[11:11] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[11:12] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Obviously I don’t wish that the new AA citizens feel overswamped by us or anything… but if the “special election” is not a solution (as Jamie pointed out, it might even look worse from the AA’s point of view), let’s Keep It Simple. Campaigning in the CDS for the 11th term will start in a month or so. The proposal,
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: as it stands, even gives the AA 60 days to reject it
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So it means… with sims being moved around and such…
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: …. that we might not be “finished” with everything by the end of June
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
[11:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let’s simply agree
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that the AA is “officially” merged with the CDS
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: by the start of the campaigning for the next term
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’ll recalculate all seats
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and, well, every citizen — no matter where they have land in — will have a vote
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But just *one* vote
[11:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all. It’s not as if we’re saying “oh, you’ll have to wait a year or so”.
[11:14] Soro Dagostino: Are you finished?
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just a few weeks — and I’m sure they won’t answer to our proposal *today*
[11:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, thank you
[11:14] Soro Dagostino: Who is next?
[11:14] Brian Livingston: *raises his hand to discuss his concern with a different section of the proposal*
[11:14] Soro Dagostino: Brian
[11:14] Jamie Palisades: I thoguth I was, but did not notice
[11:15] Brian Livingston: Jamie was first, sir
[11:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods* @ Brian, I have other issues too
[11:15] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[11:15] Cindy Ecksol raises hand to be added to the queue one more time
[11:15] Jamie Palisades: 1. I believe Brian’s appropriate concern about double counting would be addressed by assigning two seats to the estate knowm to have between 20 & 31 citizens.
[11:15] Soro Dagostino: Cindy to Follow Brian
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: 2,. I will not respond to some of the more derogatory personal aspects of various views about who champions democray.
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: Suffice to say we disagree
[11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: In corporate work one is obligaed to respect he righs of shareholders to vote
[11:16] Soro Dagostino: Brian
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: aexcuse me?
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: .. but …
[11:16] Soro Dagostino: ooops
[11:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[11:16] Soro Dagostino: continue
[11:16] Jamie Palisades: also in mergers, fair law permits the creation of bridge measures
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: as would a fair minded person here
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: finally, ladies and gentlemen
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: I have brought you a proposal AA woudl accept
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: it is well known that I believe he byzantine overcomplications of CDS election law to be silly
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: and wasteful
[11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn gasps.
[11:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn *covers her ears*
[11:17] Jamie Palisades: I hope no one is surprised that I am trying to find a simple fair soluiton
[11:18] Jamie Palisades:
[11:18] Jamie Palisades: and I invite you, as the legislature into whose hand I have places a proposal, to do better
[11:18] Jamie Palisades: but cuation you
[11:18] Jamie Palisades: I gave you one that will work
[11:18] Jamie Palisades: so: best of luck. Done, thanks
[11:18] Soro Dagostino: Brian
[11:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* (after Brian and Cindy)
[11:19] Patroklus Murakami raises hand (after brian, cindy, gwyn)
[11:19] Soro Dagostino: (Soro looks at watch)
[11:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I had a motion, a seconded one, to extend the discussion )
[11:20] Brian Livingston: My final point of conern is regarding point 8, which permits the EO of AA to, after consultation with thecitizens of those territories, disolve the merger at the 1 year anniversary. It seems a bit concerning that we give AA this ability, but do not reserve such rights for ourselves. Again, I just read this overearlier today, so alternatives aren’t readily available. Hmmm, in short i am not particularly comfortable with that provision.
[11:21] Soro Dagostino: Please state when you finish your comment.
[11:21] Brian Livingston: I would be interested in exploring this provision a bit further and the reasoning behind its inclusion as it is written, with all respect
[11:21] Brian Livingston is done
[11:21] Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[11:21] Cindy Ecksol: thx
[11:22] Cindy Ecksol: I just wanted to comment that we’ve been talking about “democratic” vs. “undemocratic” with respect to AA because they do not have elections as we do
[11:23] Cindy Ecksol: would like to point out that the AA consensus process for choosing reps and deciding issues is exactly as democratic as our own process…elections are not the ONLY democratic process that exists
[11:23] Cindy Ecksol: if we need to have AA reps chosen that way (in their own democratic process) to be members of a “faction” once the merger is complete….
[11:23] Cindy Ecksol: no reason why we can’t designate them as such
[11:23] Cindy Ecksol: but silly to be arguing that such a selection would not be “democratic”
[11:24] Cindy Ecksol: done
[11:24] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you Mr LRA
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry, but unfortunately, when we discuss pragmatism vs. principles, I’m solidly behind principles. Even if this means in the short term that we might lose some opportunities, in the long term, it’s our reputation that is also at stake…
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So, to keep it short, obviously I’m not totally against temporary measures, if they seem fair, just, and don’t violate any Constitutional rights.
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: However,
[11:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I still maintain the point that we could simply wait a few weeks and let things settle at the beginning of the next term.
[11:25] Jamie Palisades: Try that June 30 AA deadline, as previously discussed
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Instead of dealing with a “provisional” measure that, well, overrules all our constitutional provisions of equal rights…
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That works, jamie
(continued below)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder
Posts: 447
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Re: RA Transcript: 17 May 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun May 17, 2009 12:46 pm
[11:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So I’d suggest simply to cross all those sections related to “double counting”, special appointments, and so on
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And, well, let the new reps get elected regularly
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If we were at the beginning of a term, I might argue differently
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But we’re not.
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So…
[11:26] Cindy Ecksol shrugs
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Two further points, if I may
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I definitely second Brian’s thoughts
[11:26] Cindy Ecksol: that’s fine — and we may as well vote and move on since AA is not going to agree to such an offer
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The CDS should also have the same one-year-clause
[11:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Because of 4 weeks, Cindy?!
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s… preposterous
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aren’t they supposed to be as fair-minded as we are?
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We COULD also do something else, e.g. NOT call any RA meetings until next term
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if that’s what worries them….
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I had two things still…
[11:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As said, one is Brian’s issue
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: if the AA is allowed to agree to separate again in a year,
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the CDS ought to have the same right too
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Even if only implied…
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The last point is about the whole mess of the not-for-profit
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that, suddenly, out of the clear sky
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: drops on us like a bomb
[11:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and… let me quote:
[11:28] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn, your time is up.
[11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: “using two nominees from CDS and two nominees from AA as the nominal organizers, and the CDS chancellor (by virtue of office) as a presiding director [or manager, or such other similar arrangement as applicable local law may permit, in a nonprofit company form reasonably acceptable to AA management and the CDS government. That organization shall have the purpose of reporting to, taking direction from and managing for the benefit of the CDS government.”
[11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well
[11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mr LRA
[11:29] Soro Dagostino: I have not wanted to invoke the that rule
[11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: If I cannot have more time, I’m afraid I’ll have to vote utterly against this proposal
[11:29] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m sorry
[11:30] Soro Dagostino: That is your perogative
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: As you can see, this proposal has a few traps
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn *shrugs*
[11:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn gives up
[11:30] Soro Dagostino: Jamie — will you sum up for the proponent
[11:30] Sonja Strom: /sees that Patroklus has his hand up too
[11:31] Patroklus Murakami coughs
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But I make a SERIOUS protest, Mr LRA. This is the first time, in five years, that our freedom of speech has been cut short!
[11:31] Soro Dagostino: Jamie will you yield to Pat
[11:31] Sonja Strom was cut short on the flag conversation
[11:31] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Second time even. Oh my.
[11:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: well, we’ll be all ruled by a non-profit anyway
[11:32] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[11:32] Soro Dagostino: Please yield to Pat
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: is jamie afk? may I have the floor?
[11:33] Soro Dagostino: Hmmmmm, he does not appear to be with us.
[11:33] Soro Dagostino: at
[11:33] Soro Dagostino: Pat*
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: ty
[11:33] Brian Livingston flings a rubber band at jamie
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: look, we all want to bring in AA to the CDS
[11:33] Jamie Palisades: ( for convenience I believe Gwyn’s suggestion would do this: It would replace section 4 of the bill with this: AA citizens hwo become CDS citizens by operation of this merger will vote in the next regular CDS RA election. I agree with Cindy though, Gwyn’s suggestion is naive: “taxation without representation” rarely goes over well in Western countries. I see not problem with a MUTUAL one year back out.)
[11:33] Patroklus Murakami: there is no question about that
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: but this proposal has only been seen, in it’s current form, for a few hours
[11:34] Patroklus Murakami: and several RA members clearly have issues with it
[11:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: yes, exactly
[11:35] Soro Dagostino: Point of Order
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: i am confident we can find a solution that would be acceptable to both CDS and AA
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: let’s focus on that, keep our eyes on the prize
[11:35] Sonja Strom: Although, the representation issue has been the same in the proposal for some time…
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: despite our disagreements
[11:35] Jamie Palisades: sorry, yes. Several RA meetings are scheduled. I do think you can act within the tiem available to propose something fair that is not so naive as to give AA no rights on the CDS RA. Let those who think they can take up PEN
[11:35] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[11:36] Soro Dagostino: Is it time to postpone this to the next meeting?
[11:37] Pip Torok: I’d say yes, Mr LRA
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d second that motion, since some people wish to leave, because I see there are a LOT of more questions on the proposal that I wasn’t even aware of
[11:37] Soro Dagostino: Or — are you ready to vote?
[11:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Only in general — not on the specifics.
[11:37] Soro Dagostino: Pip’s statement is the motion
[11:37] Soro Dagostino: There is a second
[11:37] Soro Dagostino: Non-debateble
[11:37] Soro Dagostino: In favor?
[11:38] Pip Torok: aye
[11:38] Sonja Strom: abstain
[11:38] Cindy Ecksol: not sure what we’re voting on
[11:38] Brian Livingston: aye
[11:38] Cindy Ecksol: to adjourn?
[11:38] Soro Dagostino: Postponement
[11:38] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[11:38] Soro Dagostino: of the matter.
[11:38] Pip Torok: no .. to postpone issue to next meeting
[11:38] Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[11:39] Soro Dagostino: Next meeting.
[11:39] You decline !! Nederpoort Virtual g, Sankt Marx (170, 21, 22) from A group member named Quinton Diavolo.
[11:39] You decline Pier’s Paradise from A group member named RockPianoman Pienaar.
[11:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye on postponing to the next meeting
[11:39] Soro Dagostino: Opposed
[11:40] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[11:40] Soro Dagostino: We are very late, is there a motion to adjoun and carry the remainming business to the m=next meeting?
[11:41] Sonja Strom: I move to adjourn and carry all remaining business from this meeting to the next one.
[11:41] Pip Torok: second
[11:41] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[11:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[11:41] Soro Dagostino: ok, missed that
[11:41] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[11:42] Pip Torok: aye
[11:42] Sonja Strom: aye
[11:42] Brian Livingston: aye
[11:42] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[11:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: opposed
[11:42] Soro Dagostino: Motion to adjourn is carried.RA Meeting 31 May 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun May 31, 2009 2:34 pm
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That is for all to do. Please consent
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: consent to recording now please
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Where is the recorder
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: black box under the table — but don’t touch, jus t consent in chat please
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I consent
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: I consent to being recorded.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: i consent to being recorded
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: hi everyone
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Pat.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: hi pat!
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: hi Pat!!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Waiting for Brian and Jamie
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: no quorum
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I see that.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Waiting . . .
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami recalls that is often difficult to get a quorum at this stage of the RAs term
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i hope the meeting becomes quorate soon. if not, did you plan to hold a free discussion for anyone who wants to stay?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That would be in order.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: great
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Sudane
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: hi
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: Hi su
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: hi sudane
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: hi hi
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Lets proceed, subject to ratification by the any quorum maker
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises brow
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All consent to recordation?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: consent
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i consent
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: i do… if i say anything
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: but we can’t do anything soro….
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: what su said
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I know Rose.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: But we can get to open discussion items.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not those up for a vote.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: well, we could have an open discussion about *anything*! just no votes
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: in that case i have an item of discussion
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Wait one.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We do have an agenda.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not a free for all.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: about the effect of adding 45 citizens on 1 maybe 2 factions here
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Lets first see if the Agenda is in order.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: ok
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: sure soro
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Any corrections, Additonal items?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: under item IIi.2 should we not have a vote on the Monastery?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria ask for that, and here she is.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not my place to make amendments.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: At what point is the meeting adjourned for lack of quorum?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I’ll hold out until 0930
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: because i don’t want to stay for open discussion, but i don’t want to leave if there is a chance something will happen
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We can agree to 0930?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: sure
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: yes (reluctantly)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I have sent Brian a Linden Tom-tom
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: can you send sonja one? (whatever that is)
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: sonja is traveling, she told me she requested 7 day
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: what the heck is a linden Tom Tom???
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I don’t have her on my friends list.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: ah!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: For those who accept e-mail IM’s
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: My description of the process.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: hey, brian’s online!
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: Brian is here
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: He is.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: whew!
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Et voila.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: a close call, no?
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: rabbits!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Brian — consent to record please?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Hi all:-)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Hi all
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Please excuse my tardiness, I consent to recording
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Arria
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: hi arria
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: arria is here via Ajax Life so she’s going to have to stand there the whole time
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I consent to record too
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Who?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Ajax Life. it’s a SL client that runs on the web
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Oh?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I should be a cloud …
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: in the browser…
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: we can see you arria standing proud!
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We have a quorum.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: you look fine, but you’re standing about three meters in front of me in the middle of the room
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: never mind arria … your here!
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ok, soro, I move that we add a vote on the Monastery to item III.2
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Second?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: second
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: great But I cannot move my avatar
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: IN favor?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: of adding a vote right?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Need three . . .
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol pokes the bunny
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok reports Cindy to the RSPCA
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: sure
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Carried.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item III 2b is changed to “Vote”
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Any speakers on today’s Agenda?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Non-RA
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises hand
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes Rose?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: well, do i have to speak now?
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Raises hand provisionally.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: you asked for speakers
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Claude
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: on AA merger, when you get to it
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: On Monastery, I can speak
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: On today’s Agenda items.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale reserves the right to speak on both voting items
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: One possible effect of AA merger and a brief SC report if there’s time.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thanks, I have the list.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: I’ll reserve the right to speak on the voting items.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: lol. you are RA rabbit
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: You have that right as an RA member
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Eh, always afraid of crossing a line and BAM, stew… :p
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale peels carrots quietly…
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Llast admin item — next meeting is June 13th — as noted.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: june 13 is saturday….
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: is that correct?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: *nods* June 14th is the sunday
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item II on the Agenda — we will change to June 14th.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: My error.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ah, ok.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Counted days.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I may not be able to attend so will ask now for a 7 day vote
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: used 13
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Noted
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item II — deferred to see if the Chancellor ever arrives.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, Item III
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: General Master Plan.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Acession of AA.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Who is the proponent?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol looks at brian
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Sure, I’ll do it
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The chair notes a new proposal was issued by the Chancellor.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: This morning
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: well, I think we need to let Brian speak….
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Have you all had a chance to read it?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: I’d like to move to discuss this and the previous proposal.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: can we see this new proposal?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proceed — you are in order.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2438
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: PLease proceed Brian.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol seconds brian’s motiion
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: After taking the concerns of RA members into consideration, Jamie revised the draft merger proposal to create a method for the CDS to dissolve the merger, as well as attempt to address the concerns over voting.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion needs no vote
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: RA Reps, etc
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Continue
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Hmmm, point of order, am I amble to make my personal commentary and opinions at this point or am I just introducing?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: please introduce first brian so we all know what we’re talking about
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Lets get the matter on the table
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Thank you
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion to amend the former proposal
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: As a whole, this proposal will create a mechanism to merge the CDS and AA communities and serve as a template for future such occurances.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is done
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol rases hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston raises hand to speak
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian next
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Soro, since there was aproposal on the table from last meeting, I’d like to review that first. then we can modify
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: after discussion of course
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That is in order.
[2009/05/31 Sudane Erato: sorry… musy go
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy — comments about the proposal?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: this is the draft we looked at last time: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2394 scroll down to the May 14 section (second draft)
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: sorry — may 17
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Please look everyone.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat — after Brian
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol looks expectantly at brian
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian . . .
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Your next
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I’m just waiting for brian to explain his concerns with the proposal and how he’d like to amend it (if at all)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I know — poking bunny again . . .
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Ok, so at the last meeting, I expressed two concerns over this proposal; The first was regarding the unilateral ability for AA to dissolve this merger without an ability for the CDS to do the same. THe second concern was regarding teh effect of dual citizens on the makeup and suize of the RA
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is typing, albeit slowly
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: kk
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: The first concern can be assuaded through modifying the proposal Jamie made in his third draft, which would create an option for the RA to dissolve the merger. However, I would like to propose that instead of a simple majority, that we require a super majority of 2/3rds to dissolve the merger, given the grave implications such an action would have on the community and citizens.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Procedural point.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proposal is to modify which of Jamies writings?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: And then, is that proposal before us?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: (2nd draft is on the table, not third)
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Sorry, manner of speech. I’ll formally propose modifying the second draft in a bit.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That is what I understand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Is the modification proposed to the third draft or the second?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: I’m referring to the second draft.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: has to be to the second, soro
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Understand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Brian — you have the floor.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Ok, The second concern is one that, after reading over the draft and our founding documents some, has me much less concerned. I was interested in the thought that a citizen of both the CDS and AA could count twice towards the size and makeup of the RA. However, I’ve come to realize that the addition of AA is not simply adding new population numbers, but also adding a large investment of time, effort, and capital. Members of that community, all members,a re invested in the interests of AA and should be represented as such for the interim period. In addition, I see their method of selection to be an internal community matter within the AA leading up to the formal merger when they would be seated.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: In short, I support this legislation with the modifications to section 8 as previously stated.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is done
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins raises hand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Are you moving to amend?
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Hmm, I can.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Would you?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Claude you are after Pat.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: second
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol:
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Move to change Section 8 to: ” 8. CDS and AA agree that, on the one year anniversary of the actual sim relocation, and for seven calendar days thereafter:
(a) The AA EO may elect after consultation with AA citizens to notify the CDS government in writing that the AA EO wished to separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
(b) The CDS RA may by a 2/3rds majority vote, and posted notice of that vote to AA and CDS citizens, elect to re-separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
Upon receipt of either notice, if it occurs, CDS will give up any rights in control over the AA nonprofit entity and AA EO, and have no further liability for the AA sims; and the AA EO and residents will absolve CDS of any such further liability. In such event AA and CDS will work in reasonable good faith to achieve a smooth transition.
If neither notice is received by the end of the seventh calendar day, this option to separate is permanently terminated.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ok, now second
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: ”
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion is accepted
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion — first from the proponent
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Simply put, this will give the CDS equal footing in this merger to dissolve the agreement, but would require a supermajority, given the gravity of such a decision on the community and the citizens of the affected regions
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: Thus, I recommend ammending this proposal as such.
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston is done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: ty soro
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: You are next.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i hope you will move on to the third draft soon and consider my proposed constitutional amendment to enable the changes to take place
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i’m afraid the second draft on the table has some problems associated
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: and i think the 2/3 requirement might introduce some new ones!
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i don’t think it’s clear from the proposal how AA intends to select its representatives
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: the third draft was clearer in this respect in that it talked about ‘democratically electing’ them
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: so some clarity on that would be welcome i feel
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: on the 2/3 point just proposed though
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: are we saying that the RA needs to have a 2/3 majority to cancel the merger after a year but AA has a lower barrier?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: presumably, if we agree that this is so important that the bar should be set higher
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: it should apply equally to both communities?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Claude?
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: First – this matter was discussed at Friday’s SC meeting – Jamie attended and his statements there might be enlightening given his absence today.
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Transcript is: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2441
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: The question of adding reps, even temporary ones to the RA without a constitutional amendment….
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: …has drawn the attention of the SC.
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Second. this proposal could add as many as 45 new citizens.
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: If that addition happens close to a faction certification deadline. two of the three current factions would have to recruit very rapidly to remain legally viable.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: (*all* three, i think!)
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: As a citizen, I worry that growth which leads to a one party election would be a bad thing.
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok worries as well
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: That isn’t an issue until AA approves?
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: As to the constitutional amendment issue, it would be unfortunate for this carefully thought out and negotiated matter to be delayed by things getting tied up in the SC.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2009/05/31 Claude Desmoulins: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: just wanted to respond to claude….
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: today’s vote requires no constitutional amendment.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: it is merely a vote to extend a proposal to AA
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: If AA accepts that proposal, we’ll have to deal with the constitutional issue
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: but not until then.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: is there a call of the question?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I move the second draft as amended
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: second
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: on the amendment . . .
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Discussion
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Mr LRA, there was a personal emergency that detained me this morning; I see you are well underway but letme just apologise for being absent until now.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you Chancellor.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: yes, i wondered if anyon was able to answer my question about how AA will select its reps
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Not that I know.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Ready for the question
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i should have hoped that a legislature might want to know how the addtional members will be added
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The question has been voted on.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Ready to vote on the main motion?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: As amended.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: i’d speak to it, but am counselled by the chair’s advice that it’s been resolved by this body.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol pokes the bunny again
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Abstentions?
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: soro i think you are the only one left to vote
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Top
Re: RA Transcript: 31 May 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun May 31, 2009 2:36 pm
(continued from previous post)
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Mr LRA, may ai raise a point about that proceurally?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: I believe tjhat n the case of a vote where anyone might argue constitutionaliyu …
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: .. the presence of 5 voes woudl be legalyl significant later
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I understand.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: So I cast an aye.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades nods
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol notes that sonja requested 7 day vote
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We are running late.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you all for your hard work on this.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Item III 2. Monestary
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proponent?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Should I say something?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: i propose it
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Second?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok hopes arria now takes the floor
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Second?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Poke the bunny!
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: second
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria — you may speak to it
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades raises hand also,on this one
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2395#p13241
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Don’t know where to poke Arria
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: Can I, Soro?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades smiles, takes hand down – yup, that’s what I was going to mention. Pip, can we take that as the substance of your motion?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: yes
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria you are allowed to speak.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I take it you want the motion passed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Any other discussion?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises hand
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: whoops!
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale withdraws hand lol
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston sorta would liek to hear the remaining opinions before voting
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I ask.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades raises eye brow at chair? I can speak briefly in favor if you like
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I think rose had something to say
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: waiting to be recognized
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami gave you PCA Article VII Merger with other Communities.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (amd Arria seems to have significant technical trouble)
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The chair will accept that the call for vote was premature.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Rose, then Jamie.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: thanks
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Then Arria.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i have a couple of questions
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i’ve raised a few times the issue of homestead over full prim sim for this project, but have never seen it discussed, here or in guild
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: second.. CDS buys the homestead… does CDS get teh payments for the sale of the parcels?
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy — would take the chair for a moment.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: need to go afk for a sec.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ok
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Arria, can you respond?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: or Jamie if arria is unable
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: ?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (Arria is typing)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I have always told that Monastery works with exhibitions and not with events
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok sees arrias avi typing but sees no chat
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises hand for follow up
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: we have a regular affluence and not a big venue for a short moment
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: )I’ll ask to comment on this firt question of Rose’s after Arria speaks)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: so there is no problem of performances for the Monastery
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol notes jamie’s request
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Arria, I think Rose’s question was, who pays for the sim purchase, and who gets the original sales recveune from the real estate parcels?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: and what class of sim does your proposal plan to buy?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Back
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol passes baton back to soro and notes that jamie is next up to speak followed by rose
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: arria still has the floor.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: kk
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: as I have understood from your draft of proposal and as the RA as voted last year, it will be a normal CDS expansion sim
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I have engaged myself to pay the fees for 4 months
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: so full prim sim and CDS gets the purchase revenue?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: but the CDS get the money for the parcels as normally
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: um. Keeping my hand raised here.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: no full prim sim
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: it is clear in the proposal: it is a homestead sim
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: jamie I know your there.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria are you done?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: yes
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: for that question
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: It is my unerstanding, to elaborate, that
(a) the proposal, which i remind you is here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2395&p=13159#p13159
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: , says it’s a homestead class sim …
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (b) CDS will pay the purchase price
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (c) Virtus has bsically guaranteed ‘CDS tier’ rental income to for a period
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (d) that revenue comes back to CDS as always
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: and finally
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (e) the Virtus people hacve acknwoledged that the homestead class sim will limit thior ability to run events, AND the popujlation of the other six lots we add …
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: so
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok hopes CDS takes advantage of the “grandfather before July1st” option LL has announces
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: indeed this will if passes be an experiment in whether those small lots can be attractive on a homestead sim
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: we don’t know I support the experiment, though, and the RA CAN work with virtus to adjust prim use on the land as needed
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: like all CDS builds, our artisans for the sim
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: in this case arria and ulysse
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: will work with us under CDS law to make common prim use, and prim count for ocupied land, appropriate. Thanks, done
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Rose?
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: yes, thanks
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i am in support of the monasteery sim
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i’m opposed to locating a homestead sim in this location, and opposed to a public project being limited from the outset
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: while Arria says she doesnt’ do events. i’ll remind you all that the monastery just in February participated in the Grand Tour
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: which brought in more than the 20 avatar limit
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: it was an exception. we usually don’t do that
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i’ve had direct experience with homesteads and even minor events, and to locate a homestead in the middle of the CDS project will not just limit it, but the CDS project too
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: so i’d like to see it be a regular sim
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: done
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hello Leon, welcome.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: didn’t the RA just vote to add AA, including 4 homestead sims, to the CDS? why is this situation so radically different?
[2009/05/31 Leon Ash: Thank you Soro, hi all
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Wait one please — Leon please consent to recordation?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: thanks.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: to respond to pat, there IS a difference…
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades leaves hand in air as well, for after Rose’s Qs to Arria
[2009/05/31 Leon Ash: Sure thing Soro, please refreshg my memory about which object is the recorder.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: the monastery proposal has much more going on than the homesteads in AA….
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The consent is in chat
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: those are one-function, one-person spaces really. the monastery is intended to be visited…a lot, I hope!
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: and the monastery is smack dab in the center of CDS
[2009/05/31 Leon Ash: I give consent to be recorded. Although visual copyright remains with the creator of the avatar
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: whiel the homesteads for AA are more like “extra space” for attached full sims
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: Mr LRA, a potential proposal:
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: You have a motion?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I study the way people visit since months. It is a regular venue, but not many people at the same time.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: could we add a contingency to the Monastery bill that we revisit usage after a certain time with the intent of requiring an upgrade?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: it’s not yet a motion: neeeds input and wordsmithing
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok wd support such an amendment
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale raises hand again
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Then do you wish to move postponement?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades smiles, rolls eyes, would like to talk to such an amendment if it comes into being
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: not a motion soro, needs discussion….
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: rose has her hand up….
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy, it is not on topic, and changes the proposal
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Rose?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Then Jamie
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: The idea is to put the Monastery on an homestead sim and not on a normal sim. We need space around.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: Re the AA homesteads, if you read the discussions on relocation, you’ll see that one of the things beign considered is the upgrade of at least someo f those sims for this very reason
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: secondly, if the AA merger goest through, there wiill be a non profit organization at the disposal of CDS
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: this would be available to acquire a full prim sim for the monastery and less cost than a homestead
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: and not limit the future of either the monastery or the cds
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol likes the possibilties……
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I will not move the Monastery on a normal sim, even potentially
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm . . . .
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: why?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: There appear to be structural disagreement.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie you were next.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: What if the cost of that sim, owned by CDS, was lower than a homstead, Arria?
[2009/05/31 Leon Ash: Sorry for the short visit, but it is time for me to dash.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Take care.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol waves to leon
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Mr LRA ,let me see if I can get that issue posed to Arria, as the original designer, before commenting otherwise
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Cheers Leon
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Yes.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: if the Monastery goes on a full sim, it will be the same than today: a parcel without extension around
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: so better not move
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: it was one of the conditions of the projects: see my text on the forums
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hmmmm, why is that so?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: why wd it be such a parcel, Arria?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Arria, I undersatnd that the POSITION is a fixed requirement. fro Virtus. If we could leave it in its place – and upgrade it to full sim – with no cost to Virtus and minimal cost to CDS – i that a problem?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: (Arria has a limited connection so I am trying to frame things conveniently for her, sorry)
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: sorry I have an important call. please
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami raises hand
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades hmmmmms, leavs his own hand raised for after the conclusion of arria’s response
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pat
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: isn’t the problem that the Monastery proposal has been designed on the basis of a homestead sim and therefore, changing the proposal to a full sim at the last minute, fundamentally alters it?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: the sim layout, maps, and economics have all been worked out on the homestead basis
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale has been raising this issue for months
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: if you change it to a full sim, you need more parcels, more tenants etc to make it pay
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: No. Use a non-profit.
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: so you just go back to what we have now – the Monastery in AM – with no benefit for moving it
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: Also .. once that proposal has been implemeented … cant we just wait and see what happens, as Cindy implies?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i’m afraid the non-profit route is still to be determined
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: it’s putting the proposal into the long grass
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: It is.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: i prefer cindy’s option of a review after getting it set up
[2009/05/31 Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: and me
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: OK
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pip next.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: There seem to be two issues raised. One is whether we CAN change type of sim later, without voiding the deal with Virtus, and without making the economics untenable. I do not know.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: I think it;s worth reserving that option
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: nothing except that cindys potentiel prosal leaves all options open …
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: andwe wold do so with the understandin gthat we have to work with Virtus too, to make it work
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: but I see a lot of possibility here in the upgrade and nonprofit options ,,, as later paths to be debated collaboratively.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Not fair to Arris to try and resolve it today, i think.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol raises hand
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Second issue
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy follows Pip.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Jamie has the floor.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Sim traffic load. Might I suggest that Rose briefly describe AA’s experience with the “Library” void sim build, and its events and AA traffic, and explain how she thinks the Monastery presents a different case? I am not sure I see the difference, but would like to hear her take from a concrete example.
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: done
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: done
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: thx
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pip
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale wil reply when recognized
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: nothing more to add
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Rose
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: cindy next i think?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I am back
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Hold one.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria please read the chat.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy is next.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: ok
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: The rose, then Arria.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Proceed
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I have to rush you all, but we are running late.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: i see them as exactly alike .. the library sim and the monastery and exactly why it is my hope that we will use the additional homesteads in the AA project to upgrade the library and also the nature preserve
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Cindy?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: being that we’re running late….
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale: sorry, out of order
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I’d like to move that we defer the vote on the monastery until next meeting
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: is there a second?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: seconded
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Non – debatetable
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: In favor?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: for me it’s easy: if I cannot get a homestead in CDS, maybe on an other place of the GMP (maybe in the moutains), I will look for a solution outside CDS
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Sorry Arria, a nondebateable motion . . . Cindy
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Matter moved to next meeting.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: As a voted matter.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I have studied the problem in details and the Monastery must be on a homestead.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Please post and revisions in the forum
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: We are late.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: There were items for the SC?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: Arria a link to the reasons you state wd be helpful …
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Apologies again for my part in the lateness, ladies and gentlemen.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Does anyone want to make motions to have those matters heard?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Or should we postpone?
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Hm, fooey we lost Claude
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Delia? is action needed?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: imo we postpone …
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: the main reason is space and quiet place
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I don’t work with event
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: understood
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Arria — post that in the forums for all to read, please
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: I can only think to take an other place on GMP, in the higher mounains
[2009/05/31 Jamie Palisades: Mr LKRAm on Arria;s behalf, I would like to point out that she is working with very bad lag conditions, and we wll need to give her the chance to fully understand and work with us on any changes.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Pip has made a motion to postpone the SC matters.
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: or join an other community
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I understand Jamie.
[2009/05/31 Delia Lake: yes, we can postpone the SC. the issues are important but not urgent
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Is there a second.
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: second
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[2009/05/31 Pip Torok: aye
[2009/05/31 Brian Livingston: aye
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: aye
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Now we can adjourn and carry on discussions to resolve Arria’s issues
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Motion to adjourn?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Welcom Bromo
[2009/05/31 Bromo Ivory smiles
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion to adjourn?
[2009/05/31 Arria Perreault: tell me what I should do?
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Wait a second, lets get out of session.
[2009/05/31 Rose Springvale winks at Bromo
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: I guess we are adjourned?
[2009/05/31 Cindy Ecksol: I must run — I am playing a waltz party at the Opera at 1pm
[2009/05/31 Soro Dagostino: Thank you Cindy.
Al Andalus Expansion Proposal: Final 1 June 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:58 pm
Subject to correction by anyone who can substantiate a correction, here is the text of the Al Andalus Expansion Proposal approved at the May 31 RA meeting:
CDS extends an offer to merge with the Al Andalus estates on the following terms and with the following conditions.
take reasonable steps, without incurring new expense, to supply archived copies and content where such exist. CDS agrees to take reasonable steps, without incurring new expense, to support the maintenance and operation of such buildings.
* (a) two, or
* (b) the number of additional members that would be added to the RA under CDS law by reason of the additional number of citizens added under Para 1 above.
(a) he/she confirms that a specific map of the combined CDS-AA sim territories, which has been approved by the RA, also is acceptable to AA; and
(b) The CDS government and AA EO are satisfied, at the time of acceptance, that] a substantial number of AA residents have not indicated the intent to leave AA at the time of combination.
(a) The AA EO may elect after consultation with AA citizens to notify the CDS government in writing that the AA EO wished to separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
(b) The CDS RA may by a 2/3rds majority vote, and posted notice of that vote to AA and CDS citizens, elect to re-separate the six AA sims from CDS, as a separate estate.
Upon receipt of either notice, if it occurs, CDS will give up any rights in control over the AA nonprofit entity and AA EO, and have no further liability for the AA sims; and the AA EO and residents will absolve CDS of any such further liability. In such event AA and CDS will work in reasonable good faith to achieve a smooth transition.
If neither notice is received by the end of the seventh calendar day, this option to separate is permanently terminated.RA Meeting 7 June 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Thu Jun 11, 2009 7:55 pm
Gwyneth Llewelyn joins Claude across the room… he feels so lonely there
Soro Dagostino: would you like to comment.
Patroklus Murakami: oh, i hope this will be a brief return, but ty for asking
Patroklus Murakami: that’s all
Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
Soro Dagostino: Next meeting will be the regularly scheduled 0900 meeting on June 13, 2009.
Pip Torok thinks Pat has something to say …
Soro Dagostino: Oh, I thought he had.
Patroklus Murakami: (no, i’ve finished )
Soro Dagostino: Sorry.
Moon Adamant: hello everyone
Soro Dagostino: Hello Moon.
Sonja Strom: hello Moon
Soro Dagostino: Please consent to recordation. Touch the recorder on the table.
Sonja Strom: I will not be able to attend the meeting on the 13th, and request a 7-day vote for it.
Moon Adamant: i assent to recording
Soro Dagostino: Noted.
Moon Adamant has indicated consent to be recorded.
Soro Dagostino: Turning to to the items on the Agenda. . .
Soro Dagostino: General Master Plan, Monastery.
Soro Dagostino: It was postponed last time at the request of the Proponent.the
Gwyneth Llewelyn: uh-huh
Arria Perreault: Hello Moon
Arria Perreault:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: hi Moon
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — you have a motion?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can I just ask for a short clarification?
Arria Perreault: Did you alreay ask for non RA members speakers?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: On “b. Discussion and Vote.” is to vote on Arria’s proposal, right?
Arria Perreault: I had an eye on Roland-GArros
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (and Arria, I’ve also missed that)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Soro Dagostino: Sorry, I forgot the additional speakers.
Moon Adamant: I may wish to speak
Soro Dagostino: Please indicate your wish to speak.
Soro Dagostino: Moon.
Soro Dagostino: Arria?
Soro Dagostino: Pip?
Pip Torok: mo
Pip Torok: no
Sonja Strom: Pip is an RA Member, lol
Pip Torok is content to vote
Soro Dagostino: Just asking.
Arria Perreault: I wish to speak, if necessary
Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
Patroklus Murakami: apologies if i’m unfamiliar with the new procedures. do u need someone to move that the Monastery proposals be approved?
Patroklus Murakami: *proposal
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes… on II b
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thus my question
Soro Dagostino: The matter was postponed.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: … not for today then?
Soro Dagostino: And it may not have been recorded.
Moon Adamant: i am sorry?
Gwyneth Llewelyn *scratches head*
Patroklus Murakami: i propose that we approve the Monastery proposal i.e. Arria’s proposal, homestead sim
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Then I second Pat
Soro Dagostino: The matter is open for discussion . . .
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m fine that we do “II . 1. a. Report regarding accession of Monastery” first, of course.
Soro Dagostino: I note the chancellor did post a note about it this morning
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
Patroklus Murakami: i thought the report took place last week? is there anything further to be clarified?
Patroklus Murakami: i would hope that we are ready to approve the proposal now
Pip Torok agrees with Pat
Soro Dagostino: Any further discussion?
Soro Dagostino: Who would like to restate the motion before the vote?
Patroklus Murakami: happy to vote now
Gwyneth Llewelyn ‘s more than happy to vote as well
Patroklus Murakami: yes soro, that we approve the Monastery proposal from Arria, for purchase of a homestead class sim. as described in the following post from jamie viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2452
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (I second again, just to be clear)
Soro Dagostino: That is accepted as the Motion before us.
Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye !
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Soro Dagostino: 7 day rights have been noted.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: But you’re allowed to vote now too, Soro
Patroklus Murakami: yay!
Soro Dagostino: But it is by a majority of the body.
Soro Dagostino: Only if a tie.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha ok.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so I would kindly request that this august body formally notifies the Chancellor of the approval, so that he might start to get the whole procedures rolling
Pip Torok wondered why Arria did not vote
Soro Dagostino: Motion carried in the form presented in the memo of the Chancellor.
Moon Adamant: Arria is not a rep, Pip
Soro Dagostino: Arria is not of the RA
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Not this term, Pip
Pip Torok: ah sorry!
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Arria Perreault:
Soro Dagostino: Next matter please.
Soro Dagostino: The proposed Community Merger Bill — I believe Pat is the proponent.
Soro Dagostino: would you make your presentation?
Patroklus Murakami: certainly
Patroklus Murakami: i’m sure we are all v excited about the merger with Al Andalus
Patroklus Murakami: it’s fantastic news that AA agreed to the proposal
Patroklus Murakami: we need to make some changes to our constitution tho for this to work
Patroklus Murakami: ours talks about the RA being ‘democratically elected factions’ for example
Patroklus Murakami: and it doesn’t really cater for merger scenarios
Patroklus Murakami: i put together a proposed constitutional amendment to help the AA merger take place and….
Patroklus Murakami: provide the flexibility for future mergers
Patroklus Murakami: it’s probably too long
Patroklus Murakami: but a good starting point for discussion
Patroklus Murakami: does everyone have a copy so they can ask questions/debate it?
Pip Torok: no …
Sonja Strom: me either
Gwyneth Llewelyn would kindly request for a copy or a link to the forums
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thanks!
Sonja Strom: I have seen your post about that in the Forum
Soro Dagostino: There was comment by the Chancellor of this morning.
Sonja Strom: But I don’t know if you have changed it.
Sonja Strom: Received, thanks.
Pip Torok: received
Patroklus Murakami: i have not changed my proposal but i am grateful to jamie for offering thoughts and posting an alternative version
Soro Dagostino: You do not wish to have those suggested changes?
Pip Torok: I request time to digest the contents …
Soro Dagostino: Granted.
Soro Dagostino: We stand adjourned for five minutes
Patroklus Murakami: okay
Gwyneth Llewelyn: fine
Moon Adamant: sorry for the interruption… i am leaving now… be aware that there will be a Guild meeting at 11 AM
Moon Adamant: good wrok everyone!
Soro Dagostino: We do hope to be done.
Moon Adamant: work*
Moon Adamant waves
Soro Dagostino: Pip have you had enough time?
Soro Dagostino: Are we ready to reconvene?
Sonja Strom: Almost…
Sonja Strom: sorry, I am a slow reader.
Soro Dagostino: Thank you. Holding.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m ok, but I’m fine in waiting too
Sonja Strom: Ok, I can move forward –
Sonja Strom: thank you for the time.
Sonja Strom:
Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s fine, Sonja
Soro Dagostino: Getting the posts from this morning.
Pip Torok: I propose one amendmant in section 2 first sentence …
Patroklus Murakami: yes?
Gwyneth Llewelyn listens and will also suggest some
Soro Dagostino: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453
Pip Torok: “at least a year” to “a year to 18 months” to clarify
Soro Dagostino: Pip — that is in order
Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
Sonja Strom: second
Soro Dagostino: Thank you
Patroklus Murakami: accepted as a friendly amendment
Gwyneth Llewelyn’s fine with that too
Soro Dagostino: Noted.
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — you have the floor.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: A second suggestion, if I may, mr LRA…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Since the current merger (with Al Andaluz) stipulates a “special term” of 6 months
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and Section 3 here suggests a three month term,
Gwyneth Llewelyn: we’d be effectively invalidating the previously passed bill
Soro Dagostino: Your proposal?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I might suggest, thus, some words like: “These RA members will serve a special term, from 3 to 6 months, after which a special CDS election will be held to fill the seats for the remainder of the term.”
Patroklus Murakami: happy to withdraw that section which refers to a three month special election – it was in square brackets to be optional
Soro Dagostino: Is that the consensus of the house?
Sonja Strom: I would like to propose alternate wording to that.
Sonja Strom: “These temporary seats last until the first RA term in which the new citizens participate in the election.”
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, sure.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh, I prefer that
Soro Dagostino: No Motion is on the floor . .. except the main motion.
Sonja Strom:
Gwyneth Llewelyn removes her motion and seconds Sonja’s
Patroklus Murakami: i’m happy to take sonja’s amendment as friendly
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That makes it easier ? “special elections” can make it confusing
Gwyneth Llewelyn is also fine with that
Soro Dagostino: That will be the motion.
Soro Dagostino: Discussion?
Patroklus Murakami waits for others to speak/ask questions
Soro Dagostino: On the amended motion.
Soro Dagostino: Pat?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I would also suggest that we use the words between brackets as part of the final text
Soro Dagostino: Pat?
Soro Dagostino: Then Gwyn
Pip Torok supports Gwyn in this
Sonja Strom: For the whole Consititutional Amendment Gwyn?
Patroklus Murakami: well, just that point really. i think the references to ‘democratic election’ are essential
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds Pat on that
Patroklus Murakami: but the other bits in square brackets are not
Soro Dagostino: Please folk.
Soro Dagostino: In order.
Sonja Strom raises hand
Patroklus Murakami: i am happy to yield to gwyn (i think) who was next
Soro Dagostino: She was.
Soro Dagostino: Sonja next.
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well, I was finished really, pat ? the suggestion for Section 3 would thus be: “If the agreement to merge takes place less than one month before the deadline for declaring candidates in the next scheduled RA election, the community joining the CDS may, using their own democratic methods, elect a number of representatives to fill Interim Added Seats in the RA. These temporary seats last until the first RA term in which the new citizens participate in the election.” (that’s Sonja’s words)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *Pat and *Soro
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m also supportive of the “…. using its own democratic methods… ” as part of the text
Gwyneth Llewelyn: and the rest, well, I really have no STRONG urge to either keep them as suggested, or to remove them )
Soro Dagostino: Second?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m actually seconding’s Pat, Soro
Patroklus Murakami: sorry if i’m confusing matters. i have accepted those amends as friendly
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Soro Dagostino: Ok..
Soro Dagostino: the question is before us.
Soro Dagostino: Ready to vote?
Patroklus Murakami: i will circulate a clean copy without square brackets when u r ready to vote
Sonja Strom raises hand
Soro Dagostino: Sonja
Sonja Strom: What do the brackets mean, and why do you want to put them into the Constitution? I think they are confusing.
Soro Dagostino: Pat?
Patroklus Murakami: sorry about that. it was meant to provide flexibility. but it is confusing
Patroklus Murakami: i propose to take out [nonvoting] but include [democratic]
Patroklus Murakami: in section 3
Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds that too
Soro Dagostino: A friendly amendment?
Patroklus Murakami: and take out ‘appointed’ and [to provide explicit liaison….]
Soro Dagostino: Hold folk.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh… well spotted
Soro Dagostino: Take a few moments and get the motion in proper form.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, keep only “elected” (however they’re elected, is not of our concern)
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok.
Soro Dagostino: A recess?
Patroklus Murakami: i have a clean copy to circulate
Soro Dagostino: Ok, lets see it.
Sonja Strom: Would you please put a revision number at the end of its name?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: ( thank you , Pat!)
Soro Dagostino: “Cleaned up” isn’t enough? )
Sonja Strom: (too late)
Sonja Strom: lol
Patroklus Murakami: version control!
Pip Torok: no Soro!
Sonja Strom: right
Patroklus Murakami: did everyone get that?
Pip Torok: not me
Soro Dagostino: Recess for a few.
Soro Dagostino: Get it out as proposed.
Pip Torok: got it now
Soro Dagostino: Everyone ready?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, a question…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: No… just a small question
Soro Dagostino: Lets find out first if all are ready . .
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn — your question?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is it clear for everybody that the Interim Added Seats ‘expire’ on the next (regular) elections?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: If so ? and that might just be a question of my English being a second language ? I have nothing further to day
Gwyneth Llewelyn: *say even
Gwyneth Llewelyn: lol
Pip Torok: imo “interim” means just that gwyn
Soro Dagostino: Arria?
Arria Perreault: Sorry, I have crashed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Pip, that’s what I just wished to understand
Soro Dagostino: kk
Patroklus Murakami: sorr, missed a bit out
Soro Dagostino: Claude — do you have any comment ?
Patroklus Murakami: i may need to circulate v3
Sonja Strom raises hand
Claude Desmoulins: Yes.
Soro Dagostino: Claude the Sonja
Soro Dagostino: then*
Claude Desmoulins: I would note that if the join is greater than thirty days before an electtion…
Claude Desmoulins: …the text is clear as to the duration of the interim seats.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, if you change it again, just change the asterisks (the bullet points) to a), b), c)..
Patroklus Murakami: ‘server is experiencing difficulties’ just our luck
Gwyneth Llewelyn: eek
Sonja Strom: naturally
Claude Desmoulins: In the other case (<30 days) there’s ambigiuity as to how long interim is. Since a regular term seat is six months, I think one could make a good argument that interim couldn’t be longer than athat else it wouldn’t be interim.
Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
Soro Dagostino: Sonja?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, Claude, that was a bit in the same line of my own doubts…
Gwyneth Llewelyn: (sorry, I’ll hush now!!)
Sonja Strom: I don’t see that the cleaned up version has this sentence in Section 3., “These temporary seats last until the first RA term in which the new citizens participate in the election.”
Soro Dagostino: Sonja is next
Sonja Strom: done, thanks
Soro Dagostino: Lets wait for Pat.
Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well… Sonja’s point was mine, too, as well as Claude’s
Pip Torok: wb Pat
Soro Dagostino: Are you ready Pat?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: I seconded Sonja’s suggestion to add that sentence, because, in my mind, it clarifies the text much better on what is “interim”, and how long it takes.
Patroklus Murakami: just a sec, was trying to correct the note when i crashed
Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all, thank you
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aww
Soro Dagostino: Recess for 5 min.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat, do you need a partial transcript?
Patroklus Murakami: yes pls
Gwyneth Llewelyn: there you are
Patroklus Murakami: okay, if i add sonja’s sentence at the end of section 3 does that work better?
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes for me
Patroklus Murakami: then it covers both cases. less than 30 days and more than
Sonja Strom: for me too
Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
Patroklus Murakami: okay. i’ll recirculate v3
Soro Dagostino: Are we ready?
Sonja Strom: wait please Pat
Sonja Strom: I have one other item to discuss.
Soro Dagostino: Back to session?
Soro Dagostino: Sonja?
Sonja Strom: In Section 2, what do wethink about this sentence: “Any sims owned by the community will merge as one territory with the CDS.”?
Sonja Strom: I’m not sure we should have that in as a requirement.
Patroklus Murakami: ah, i don’t mean ‘one contiguous territory’. they can still be in different places on the grid
Soro Dagostino: Do we need more time on this?
Patroklus Murakami: was that your concern sonja?
Sonja Strom: OK Pat, yes…
Sonja Strom: Could we maybe make the wording of that more clear?
Soro Dagostino: More discussion in the forum?
Pip Torok agrees with Sonja
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Also, what about getting “half a community”?
Sonja Strom: Ah, good question Gwyneth.
Soro Dagostino: It looks as if we do?
Sonja Strom: Maybe we should work more on it before having a vote.
Soro Dagostino: Can this be postponed for a week?
Sonja Strom: (Sorry Patroklus)
Patroklus Murakami: no problem. it’s best to get it right than to rush it
Sonja Strom: I think the concept of it is really good, and am thankful to Patroklus for all his work on it.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway, *if* I read it right, the idea is that *for purposes of calculating the number of RA members (interim or future ones)* the citizens in the sims will be added to the head count of citizens.
Soro Dagostino: May I take that as a motion to postpone?
Soro Dagostino: Discussion in the forum.
Sonja Strom: I make the motion to postpone this issue to the next meeting.
Soro Dagostino: Second?
Pip Torok: seconded
Soro Dagostino: Non-debatable
Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
Patroklus Murakami: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn abstains (either way is fine for me)
Soro Dagostino: Tie — aye
Gwyneth Llewelyn:
Soro Dagostino: Postponed till next week — June 13.
Patroklus Murakami: i will post v3 to the forums to continue the discussion
Soro Dagostino: Thank you
Sonja Strom: Thank you Pat.
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, thank you Pat!
Soro Dagostino: That reaches the end of the special meeting agenda.
Soro Dagostino: Are you ready to adjourn?
Gwyneth Llewelyn is ready
Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or rather, I second the motion to adjourn…
Pip Torok is ready
Sonja Strom: I move we adjourn.
Patroklus Murakami: aye. ready to adjourn
Soro Dagostino: Good.
Pip Torok: seconded
Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
Sonja Strom: aye
Pip Torok: aye
Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.RA Meeting 14 June 2009
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:55 pm
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: Hmmm, Its after 0900
[9:06] Pip Torok: hi rose!
[9:06] Rose Springvale: hi everyone!
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: Hello Rose.
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hello all!
[9:06] Pip Torok: hi gwyn
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: Hello Gwyn
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Rosie
[9:06] Rose Springvale:
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: hi rose, gwyn
[9:06] Soro Dagostino: We have a Quorum
[9:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: wow love that dress, Cindy!!!
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: soro, I have a hard stop today at 10:30
[9:06] Cindy Ecksol: thx!
[9:07] Soro Dagostino: Heh! I wish I did!
[9:07] Cindy Ecksol: recorder is running
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:07] Soro Dagostino: Could we begin?
[9:07] Gwyneth Llewelyn doesn’t see the recorder yet but definitely consents to be recorded
[9:08] Cindy Ecksol: black box under the table gwyn, but doesn’t accept a “touch to consent” — consent in chat is fine.
[9:08] Soro Dagostino: consent to recordation
[9:08] Pip Torok: nor does Pip but he consents to be recorded
[9:08] Cindy Ecksol: consent
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh I see
[9:08] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe
[9:08] Rose Springvale: consents as well
[9:09] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh I b.?
[9:10] Pip Torok: Moon s bit out of date! ..
[9:10] Soro Dagostino: Are there any changes to the Agenda?
[9:10] Cindy Ecksol: sec…
[9:10] Rose Springvale: Soro, if i want to speak and offer changed to proposed amendments, do i indicate now?
[9:10] Soro Dagostino: Yes
[9:10] Rose Springvale: *possibly*
[9:10] Rose Springvale: need to see how the discussion goes
[9:11] Soro Dagostino: But now is the time to change the Agenda.
[9:11] Soro Dagostino: Please note what it is you would like to add
[9:11] Rose Springvale: well, if we discuss constitutional amendments, i want to be in queue
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I have some doubts on the strange headers for the agenda… e.g. why is a constitutional amendment put under “General Master Plan”, and why is a report by the SC under “culture, entertainment and sports”? Besides that, assuming that the proposed const. amendment that we discussed last week goes under III 1., I don’t object to the “strange headers”
[9:11] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[9:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right! I find it only amusing
[9:12] Cindy Ecksol: Soro, I’d like to request that we deal with the AA stuff first since I need to leave at 10:30
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Granted, once might consider that listening to CLaude or his representative is a “fine sport” …
[9:12] Rose Springvale gave you Elastic clause.
[9:12] Soro Dagostino: If you would like, you can write a form for us to use.
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with discussing AA first and seconds Cindy
[9:12] Pip Torok: shame if Pat isnt here by then, but …
[9:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: hehe Soro… sure But I like funny, nonsense things too — they get to be part of the CDS tradition and make stronger bonds
[9:13] Pip Torok: (btw Pat will be about half-hour late
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: Do you wish the chair to yield to you Gwyn?
[9:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Why? I’m fine where I am, thank you very much
[9:13] Soro Dagostino: The form is the one that my predecessor left, Never saw another form.
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see.
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: hi everyone, sorry i’m late
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Hello Pat.
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: interesting
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hi Pat!
[9:14] Pip Torok: Hi Pat!!
[9:14] Cindy Ecksol: ah, here’s pat now!
[9:14] Soro Dagostino: Any other changes proposed?
[9:14] Patroklus Murakami: london transport! bah!
[9:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: The Motion on the floor is to move item III 1 to be the first item of business.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: It has been seconded.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: Non-debatable.
[9:16] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[9:16] Patroklus Murakami looks for agenda
[9:16] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[9:16] Pip Torok: aye
[9:16] Cindy Ecksol: ball on floor pat
[9:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn says aye (Pat: the small light blue ball)
[9:17] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Opposed?
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Speakers?
[9:17] Soro Dagostino: Rose?
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[9:18] Rose Springvale: no, i’m just a citizen, need to see what comes from the discussions
[9:18] Jamie Palisades: I expect so, yes
[9:18] Cindy Ecksol was wondering if we can get a review of where we’re at
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: We will get there.
[9:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to second Cindy’s request too…
[9:18] Jamie Palisades raises eyebrow, looks to president officer, waits for agenda to unfold
[9:18] Soro Dagostino: Brian reports he wants a 7 day vote right.
[9:19] Pip Torok: so does Sonja (if she hasnt given it already)
[9:19] Jamie Palisades: ah soryr, walked in a bit late I gather. which item exactly are we on?
[9:19] Soro Dagostino: Next meeting is June 28th, 2009 at 0900
[9:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn is fine with that date.
[9:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (Jamie: I d. and I e.)
[9:20] Cindy Ecksol requests 7 day vote
[9:20] Pip Torok: we agreed to move III1 to here
[9:20] Jamie Palisades: Ah. Thanks Pip. Shall I lead off?
[9:20] Soro Dagostino: The point of information is that the Constitution Amendment matter postponed from last week is first on the substantive agenda.
[9:20] Jamie Palisades: thx, let me know where we’re there, sorry
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: The Proponent is first.
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: Pat?
[9:21] Patroklus Murakami: okay. i’ll try to be brief
[9:21] Soro Dagostino: Please restate your motion.
[9:21] Patroklus Murakami: i can’t access the forums right now so can’t give u a url
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: Jamie — can you provide that information?
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: but i move the proposed constitutional amendment i circulated at last week’s meeting and posted on teh forums so we can debate the issue
[9:22] Patroklus Murakami: is that okay?
[9:22] Rose Springvale: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15
[9:22] Soro Dagostino: That gets us started
[9:23] Jamie Palisades mutters – Pat’s last draft is here: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453&p=13405#p13403 and the others also appear in that thread
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Has every one read this information?
[9:23] Jamie Palisades: jinx Rose
[9:23] Rose Springvale: smiles
[9:23] Cindy Ecksol nods
[9:23] Pip Torok: could use two minutes to review it …
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: REcess is in order.
[9:23] Soro Dagostino: Please do.
[9:24] Soro Dagostino: We stand recessed for 5 min.
[9:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ok, thank you
[9:25] Soro Dagostino: I hadn’t noticed that Pat is invisible?
[9:26] Soro Dagostino: London must be trouble.
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[9:26] Patroklus Murakami: oh really? i’m visible to me!
[9:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I see him, Soro
[9:27] Jamie Palisades: Ladies & gentlemen, I put the last two drafts of which I am aware, Pat’s and mine, on a notecard, for anyone not on the web.
[9:27] Jamie Palisades: You’re clear as day to me also Pat
[9:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks, Jamie! It’s sometimes hard to follow on the forums what slight changes have been made here and there on each suggestion.
[9:28] Jamie Palisades: (can discuss briefly in due course)
[9:29] Jamie Palisades gave you AA enabling legislation, latest drafts.
[9:29] Soro Dagostino: Are you ready to reconvene?
[9:29] Patroklus Murakami: yes
[9:30] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh I think so… that notecard helped a lot, btw
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: Pip?
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: cindy?
[9:30] Pip Torok: just about
[9:30] Cindy Ecksol: fine
[9:30] Soro Dagostino: kk
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *sigh*
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Ok, lets get started.
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: Pat?
[9:32] Soro Dagostino: You are the proponent
[9:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Sorry guys. This is one of those cases where I have to chose between democracy and not making anyone angry Tough choices, voting against my conscience…
[9:33] Patroklus Murakami: well, i’ve taken on board the feedback from a number of peope about earlier drafts
[9:33] Patroklus Murakami: they were too long
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:33] Patroklus Murakami: they undid the agreement with AA
[9:33] Patroklus Murakami: i agree that we should not try to change the terms of an agreement we have put to AA through constitutional amendments!
[9:33] Cindy Ecksol nods
[9:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, at least I can agree with that too!
[9:34] Patroklus Murakami: so i have drafted a briefer version that essentially provides a framework for this merger and others
[9:34] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn will be next — Pat would you continue
[9:34] Patroklus Murakami: based on what has actually happened
[9:34] Patroklus Murakami: the chancellor discussed the merger with AA on behalf of the CDS
[9:34] Patroklus Murakami: the RA approved an agreement
[9:34] Patroklus Murakami: this has the kinds of checks and balances we need to see between branches of govnt
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami: i added in a role for the SC (which it kind of has anyway)
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami: to validate the number of seats a new community gets in the RA post merger
[9:35] Jamie Palisades politely raises hand for queue, apparently after Gwyn
[9:35] Soro Dagostino: Noted Jamie
[9:35] Patroklus Murakami: it would not be appropriate for that solely to be an RA decsion in my opinion
[9:36] Patroklus Murakami: the SC oversees elections and it is good to have one branch check and balance another
[9:36] Patroklus Murakami: that’s all, happy to hear views
[9:36] Soro Dagostino: Thank you.
[9:37] Soro Dagostino: An amazing day — she is speechless
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol:
[9:37] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[9:37] Cindy Ecksol: she’s typing, soro
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, actually my problem is how to frame this without hurting anybody’s feelings
[9:37] Jamie Palisades chuckles – Gwyn? typing
[9:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and lol Cindy…
[9:37] Jamie Palisades: That’s an issue in CDS?
[9:38] Jamie Palisades: Then maybe I can retire happy
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Well yes, Jamie.
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[9:38] Pip Torok: apres un peu de temps le deluge!
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: But yes, I also think it’s important
[9:38] Cindy Ecksol: lol!
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Pip
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Hopefully not!
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway —
[9:38] Gwyneth Llewelyn: one thing is to make sure that the amended constitution does NOT prevent the AA merger to happen because we changed the conditions.
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, I think I have nothing against that. Seriously! I don’t want to lose the merger because of haggling.
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The other thing is if we want a minimalistic change on the constitution (as Pat suggested) or a slightly larger version (as Jamie suggested)
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In my mind, both are possible
[9:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The last thing, however, is what nags at me, and which I cannot understand,
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: which is leaving the choice open to:
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 1) citizens with twice the votes
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 2) RA members getting “appointed”, not elected
[9:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 3) The CDS passing no judgement upon what “democracy” means; we have a good, working definition of what it means for the past 5 years
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: History sadly showed what these three points led to.
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: And anything I’ll say next will offend you,
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: so I remain silent
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and let Jamie continue
[9:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[9:41] Soro Dagostino: jamie?
[9:41] Jamie Palisades: That’s quite a negative pregnant, Gwyneth 5 years? I though that was a putsch in 2005? No? ah well.
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: Ok, thanks,. I have four points.
[9:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: 4, then, if you prefer I’m not going to be picky
[9:42] Cindy Ecksol snickers
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: First an unqualified positive one.
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: First, to echo Sonja, who’s not able to join us today: “One possible answer to these disputes might be to work toward an Amendment that would provide a general framework for mergers but not be so specific, allowing for more flexibility in individual situations. This could especially be true in the requirements we would have for the other communities and their sims. viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p13381)
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: I agree, and this shorter version conforms to that view and I think we’re on the right track here.
[9:42] Jamie Palisades: sceond
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: Second. I believe our constitution can – and should – support mergers, if the basic terms are fair and that it’s utter sophistry and lollygagging to try and set it up for failure. as I posted in detail — — we should NOT go into a merger leaving some hiole for someone to argue that what we agreed to is unconstitutional.
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: It’s rude, and bad planning.
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: So let’s fix it.
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: For reasona I can decsribe if you like, i believ ethis meetign is your chance to do so.
[9:43] Jamie Palisades: Third – there are two substantive issues.
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: One is how AA selectes its transitional reps.
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: Pat’s draft uses the word ‘democracy’ to let , well, someone, challange AA’s sel;ection after the fact.
[9:44] Jamie Palisades: I disagree – that’s folly and not the way to treat a merger of equals.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: To quote SOnja again, She also made this one in the same post: “Of course we would want a merger to be popular, but I think this requirement might make it seem like the CDS would be controlling the person turning their sim(s) over to the CDS.”
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: so I have suggested that language be changed (see notecard) to let SC review any action — as it IS a CDS electio — but to make it clear in the constitution …
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: .. that any reasonable method consiste with the joinign estate’s past practice is legal.
[9:45] Jamie Palisades: Fourth and final —
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: The Text pat most recently offered also changes the RA’s approved deal.
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: (I am getting IMs, and soryr, cannot read just now)
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: The bill you passed includes a minimum of 2
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: and includes a method for hanlding dual citizens
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: a metod with does NOT double count
[9:46] Jamie Palisades: as it woudl exclude anu dual citizens who stand with AA from the next CDS poll
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: so , sorry, but fooey to those who suggest otherwise
[9:47] Jamie Palisades:
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: in cas eyo miss the significance of this to AA
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: there are a lot of dual citizens
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: owuld they not reaosnable want peopel in their camp to be able to choise their camp?
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: and\
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: whatever the emotional issues
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: the practical issue os that this is what the RA passed.
[9:47] Jamie Palisades: So
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: Atcion items
[9:48] Patroklus Murakami: mr chairman, may i ask for a couple of points of clarification?
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: – i recommend you pass the amended version i offered on the notecard.
[9:48] Soro Dagostino: Hold for a moment Pat.
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: – I suggest we note SOnja;s questio on the forum about 2/3r s versus m,ajority vote, out of courtesy to her
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: – and i suggest we disuss why this is probably the last meetign at which you can act, before AA will either join us, or walk.
[9:48] Jamie Palisades: thank you
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: done, thx Soro
[9:49] Soro Dagostino: Your third point is a suggested amendment?
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: not at all. Just a suggestiong that we understand the calendar’s effects on this legislation
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: can elaborate if and when desired
[9:49] Jamie Palisades: but the other two points are more important
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Is there an amendment that can be moved?
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Or are we to vote on the main motion?
[9:50] Jamie Palisades: I have offerd one in the notecardif someone wishes to do so
[9:50] Cindy Ecksol: I move jamie’s note card to amend the proposal on th etable
[9:50] Jamie Palisades: but I don;t make motions here
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: I understand Jamie.
[9:50] Soro Dagostino: Is there a second?
[9:50] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand* (after Pat’s clarifications)
[9:50] Pip Torok: second
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Thank you Pip.
[9:51] Jamie Palisades: (It’s the same as the last forum post at viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p13405 ) for the record
[9:51] Soro Dagostino: Gywn — your next.
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat wanted to offer some clarifications…
[9:51] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’d prefer to have Pat first .9
[9:52] Patroklus Murakami: i would like to seek a couple of clarifications
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: You are yielding the floor to pat?
[9:52] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ah, *seek*. Yes, Soro, I am.
[9:52] Soro Dagostino: Pat.
[9:53] Patroklus Murakami: firstly, i think that the AA residents are reasonable people so, if we hold a reasonable discussion here i can’t see why the choices are ‘decide or they walk’. why would the AA residents do that? it seems odd to me
[9:53] Patroklus Murakami: jamie told us that there will be no double-counting
[9:53] Patroklus Murakami: i’m really pleased to see that in writing
[9:53] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[9:54] Patroklus Murakami: it was not clear to me at all, my reading of the agreement was that dual citizens would count twice
[9:54] Patroklus Murakami: so some clarity on how they won’t would be very welcome
[9:54] Gwyneth Llewelyn would like to second Pat’s request too
[9:54] Patroklus Murakami: secondly, can anyone tell us how AA intends to select its reps? i should have thought that this was something we could be told
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: and i think it is important to us as a democratic, self-governing community
[9:55] Soro Dagostino: I believe they did — early on.
[9:55] Patroklus Murakami: no one wants to dictate that elections should be held in the same way as ours
[9:55] Pip Torok: I understand it will be by their usual means of discussion and resolution …
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: apologies soro. i must have missed that. could someone explain what ‘usual means of discussion and resolution’ means?
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: and, if elections have been rejected, why? secret ballots are a good thing! are they not?
[9:56] Pip Torok: it means informal 4-5 mmeber meeting where an agreement is arrived at
[9:56] Patroklus Murakami: those were my questions for clarification
[9:57] Cindy Ecksol: pat, Pip and I can only speak of what has been the practice in AA
[9:57] Cindy Ecksol: we have never had “elected officials”
[9:57] Soro Dagostino: Heh! The same way we do it in the Factions.
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn totally seconds Pat’s requests, and will only need to get the floor later unless the questions don’t satisfy me
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: *answers
[9:57] Cindy Ecksol: everything is resolved by consensus — we talk about it, and eventually there’s a consensus tha twe all can live with
[9:57] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Cindy, please define “consensus”, so that it’s clear for us.
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Does it mean that all 31 AA citizens cast a vote by secret ballot?
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: “consensus” means that we keep talkign until we have a solution that everyone interested can live with
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who is “we”?
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: there are no ballots of any sort
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: Town meeting.
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: anyone who is interested shows up for the regualr meetings
[9:58] Soro Dagostino: New England style.
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Ok, so adhocracy, like the guild, but instead of voting, everybody has to agree?
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: all citizens who show up, vote
[9:58] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Right.
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Top
Re: RA Minutes 14 June 2009 (3 parts)
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Jun 14, 2009 2:58 pm
(continued from previous post)
[9:58] Cindy Ecksol: or at least have a say
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: it’s very civilized, actually
[9:59] Cindy Ecksol: and we’re willing to give all that up to join CDS!
[9:59] Pip Torok: unstructure? possiblt but Gwym … it works!
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pip, I’m not questioning if it works or not ))
[9:59] Jamie Palisades smiles, raises hands to offer some possible answers to Pat, waits
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A lot of models work
[9:59] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, I’m happy to hear Jamie too, so I’ll hush
[9:59] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: thx’
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: If I may offer some answers to Pat. I have tried to approach this like a corporate lawyer — oddly enough, that being my career — structure a deal that’s attractive to both, and legal, and then do a deal in good faith. So I often try to look at this from AA’s side as well.
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: With that in mind.
[10:00] Jamie Palisades: (1) Pat asks about double counting. I believe we will need to do approximately as he said in one of his drafts — let any dual citizen who elects AA count for AA but NOT vote in the next CDS election for RA.
[10:01] Jamie Palisades: I think that’s the inevitable outcoemn of the adpopted bill, taken together with our constitution’s prexisting rules
[10:01] Soro Dagostino: Attribution?
[10:01] Jamie Palisades: … which i believe would drequire the avoidance of any obvious doublecounting
[10:01] Jamie Palisades: soro that was in one of his earlier drafts, where he thought it wise to drop all that detail into the constitution
[10:02] Jamie Palisades: but we agree conmpletely on the principle
[10:02] Jamie Palisades: (2) Pat asks about AA “walking.” My words, not from anyone in AA. It is my view.. and only mine …
[10:02] Jamie Palisades: , that if I were them, and we did a deal with them (see the approved bill) … but then later by our legislative record made it clear we were going to try and undo it in the SC … well, I’d not consummate the deal with a bunch of, ah, promise-breakers. Period.
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: that’s the basic point of my forum post yesterday
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: finally
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: i just respectfulyl disagree with the idea that Gwyn and Pat have that we should interrogate AA as to its method of initial selection
[10:03] Gwyneth Llewelyn: ^^
[10:03] Pip Torok agrees with Jamie
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: if we think they’re muslim dictators or autocrats, p[ease move to undo the eeal not tell them how to trun their transition
[10:03] Jamie Palisades: as sonja said
[10:04] Patroklus Murakami: ask=/=interrogate
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: we don;t win by telling them how to do their thing
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: and
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: the SC COULD, under the amendment on the table ..
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: UNDO
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: an unfair unreasonable approach
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: but tellign them exactly how to proceed? Infantile and naive, sorry
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: this is a merger
[10:04] Jamie Palisades: not a fire sale
[10:05] Patroklus Murakami: asking, not telling
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Just asking, Jamie
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: sorry, but i don;t think some of us quite understand how offensive that point is to AA
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Gavel on the podium
[10:05] Jamie Palisades: done, thanks
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Before the body is the amendment.
[10:05] Soro Dagostino: Are you ready for that question?
[10:05] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No.
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: i’d like to speak agianst the amendment so no
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: noted.
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: I thought you had Pat?
[10:06] Patroklus Murakami: no, not against jamie’s amendment as moved by cindy
[10:06] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn, you to.
[10:06] Gwyneth Llewelyn: He asked questions…
[10:06] Jamie Palisades: (I would like to reserve a chance after wards to talk about sonja;s issue, and the timing of this act if it passes)
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Noted
[10:07] Soro Dagostino: Pat — you may proceed.
[10:07] Patroklus Murakami: ty to jamie for clarifying
[10:08] Patroklus Murakami: i am relaxed on the double counting issue and, on the method by which AA selects its reps, i don’t plan to die in ditch!
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: i think that jamie’s amendment adds too much to the constitution tho in terms of detail that should be in a merger agreement
[10:09] Jamie Palisades: uh oh – don;t know that colloquialism. Don’t die, Pat, we just got you BACK
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: the intention of my revised amendment was to strip all that out
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: (i won’t stand on principle about it)
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: and give more discretion to the chancellor to make a deal that works
[10:09] Patroklus Murakami: and seek RA approval
[10:10] Patroklus Murakami: so i am opposed to the amendment, that’s all
[10:10] Jamie Palisades smiles, raises hand after gwyn
[10:11] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn?
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: thank you
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Although I’m usually for having good frameworks,
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I understand that each merger case will be quite different from the next,
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and we cannot really predict what will come next… so,
[10:11] Gwyneth Llewelyn: under that assumption,
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I prefer, like on Pat’s “minimalistic” amendment proposal,
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to give the Chancellor a wider margin of negotiation.
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In particular, as you have noticed,
[10:12] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m quite sensitive on any subversive strategies of pushing “appointed” people into the RA, no matter how “nice” they are.
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: We still haven’t amended the Constitution Art I – 1 “The Representative Assembly (RA) is a body of democratically elected factions which represent different ideological views of its citizens.”
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: So
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I propose that we restrain outselves to load the constitution with an amendment,
[10:13] Gwyneth Llewelyn: that can, in a certain light, void that fundamental principle.
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Is that a proposed amendment to the current motion?
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Pat’s much smaller amendment doesn’t make any “special requirements” and gives the Chancellor a free hand in negotiating,
[10:14] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Or a new motion, Soro. I’m fine in voting both.
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Are you making a new motion?
[10:14] Soro Dagostino: Please so state?
[10:15] Jamie Palisades: (I think not, “Pat’s smaller amendment” was the original Pat mpotion here)
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes. I propose that we vote on Pat’s “shorter amendment” as per the notecard distributed byJamie earlier
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: No
[10:15] Cindy Ecksol: there’s a motion on the table to amend that we need to vote on first
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: PROPOSED CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT
Add at end of Article I, Section 1 (The Representative Assembly): “The RA approves merger agreements with other communities.”
Add at end of Article II, Section 2 (c) (Powers of The Chancellor): “and to enter into merger discussions with other communities”
Insert after first paragraph, Article III, Section 8 (Powers of the SC): “The SC approves the number of interim additional RA seats for a community joining the CDS using the formula in Article I, Section 2.”
[10:15] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (to be clear )
[10:15] Patroklus Murakami: i think we need to vote on the amendment first?
[10:15] Soro Dagostino: I do to.
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: Call the question?
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’m not finished… hehe
[10:16] Jamie Palisades: (sorry, i THINK the choice is between Pat’s original motion here, in favor of which G and P are speaking, and the amendment to it moved by Pip, aginst which G and P speak)
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I’ll call the question
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: … when finished…
[10:16] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Is that ok?
[10:16] Jamie Palisades smiles, shrugs, is in queue, but it’s up to the body
[10:16] Soro Dagostino: I asked if you had a new motion?
[10:16] Cindy Ecksol thinks perhaps gwyn is overtime?
[10:17] Soro Dagostino: Or are in statements against the current question on the floor
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Oh gosh. Not again! I wouldn’t be if you’d keep interupting
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Come on guys.
[10:17] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s mostly unfair.
[10:18] Soro Dagostino: The question is before you.
[10:18] Gwyneth Llewelyn: I feel that I’m in a minority here defending a representative democracy Am I not allowed a last stand before the deluge?
[10:18] Jamie Palisades: (fwiw, she’s speaking against the current motion to amend, Mr. LRA, seems entirely appropriate to me even if we disagree )
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Having two options to select for an amendment, I’m just suggesting one that at least still preserves some hope that we remain a representative democracy in the furture…
[10:19] Soro Dagostino: I understand.
[10:19] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Anyway
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: A point here which I *have* to make…
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the future, we will have more opportunities for mergers.
[10:20] Soro Dagostino: You can finsih quickly?
[10:20] Soro Dagostino: Your time is up.
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the future, I will hope that the conditions are set equally to both sides.
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the future, I will certainly, as a citizen of the CDS and a member of the RA;
[10:20] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to be fully allowed
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: to inspect, question, ask, and interrogate,
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: anything I wish on any other community that wishes to merge with us;
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: and I fully expect that community to do the same to us.
[10:21] Jamie Palisades: (Are we watching the clock, senators?)
[10:21] Patroklus Murakami: hear, hear
[10:21] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the future, I don’t want to be told “you have no right to ask”
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: Your time is up.
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: The question is called.
[10:21] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:21] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:21] Pip Torok: aye
[10:22] Patroklus Murakami: nay
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: In the future, I don’t wish to blindly go ahead with having a Samocles’ sword on top of my head, preventing me to ask questions.
[10:22] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nay
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: A tie.
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Chair votes aye
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: Now for the main question, as modified.
[10:22] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:23] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Can we have the “main question as modified” again, just for the record? (notecards don’t get in the transcript otherwise)
[10:23] Pip Torok agrees
[10:23] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:23] Cindy Ecksol:
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: hm – ah there we go, second half of card
[10:24] Cindy Ecksol: drat….
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami: last bit is missing
[10:24] Gwyneth Llewelyn: It’s just the second half, right?
[10:24] Cindy Ecksol: did I get it all?
[10:24] Jamie Palisades: may I just say again for the record, the text is here – viewtopic.php?f=7&t=2453&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=15#p13405
[10:24] Patroklus Murakami: no
[10:25] Cindy Ecksol: ah, better idea…
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That works better, Jamie
[10:25] Cindy Ecksol: link to the forum will make it to the transcript
[10:25] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:25] Soro Dagostino: We have the motion.
[10:25] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:25] Cindy Ecksol: aye
[10:25] Soro Dagostino: Pip?
[10:26] Pip Torok: aye
[10:26] Soro Dagostino: All opposed?
[10:26] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Nay
[10:26] Patroklus Murakami: nay
[10:26] Soro Dagostino: Tie vote. Chair votes Aye
[10:26] Soro Dagostino: Motion carried.
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: May I confirm, as a point of honor, Mr LRA, whether as a consitutional amendment this will require five votes to pass, and thus depends on the 7 day votes from Brian and Sonja?
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Mmh how? It’s a constitutional amendment…
[10:27] Soro Dagostino: Thank you all.
[10:27] Patroklus Murakami: hmm. not quite…
[10:27] Patroklus Murakami: needs 5/7 to pass
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie’s point is correct.
[10:27] Jamie Palisades: Gywn you agree with me on that, yes? anyone disagree?
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Totally agree, Jamie.
[10:27] Soro Dagostino: Ah — a consensus
[10:27] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha
[10:28] Jamie Palisades waits to hear other views, raises hand on the timing issue
[10:28] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Yes, we need Brian & Sonja to vote.
[10:28] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[10:28] Jamie Palisades: thanks
[10:28] Cindy Ecksol: so final status deferred
[10:28] Jamie Palisades: yes
[10:28] Jamie Palisades: my point exactly – if i may
[10:28] Soro Dagostino: Jamie
[10:29] Jamie Palisades: 1. there is no agreement wether the bill is needed to make the AA legslation conform to the constitutuion
[10:29] Jamie Palisades: some thins do
[10:29] Jamie Palisades: and I see our SC is merrily plannig to meet tomorrow,
[10:29] Patroklus Murakami: do we know what is on the SC agenda?
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: but wehave not been informed yet of a challenge, smile, so if they use due process, perhaps that;’s not why
[10:30] Pip Torok cd make a guess!
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: oh of course not the star cha,ber – sorry SC – doesn;t work that way apparently
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: but
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: anyway
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: here’s the thing on timing
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: a week from today
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: at latest
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: we will have the vote
[10:30] Jamie Palisades: (giving B and S their full 7 days)
[10:31] Patroklus Murakami: we could have the vote as early as tomorrow…
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: that’s the 21st
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: on the 25th
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: which is dthe day before CDS RA filings open
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: AA will as a prctical matter need to decide whether to consummate the deal with us
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: and for reasons I woulc explain but feel surpfluous here
[10:31] Jamie Palisades: i expect they’d declien if this does not pass
[10:32] Jamie Palisades: so that’s wher ewe are. Thanks
[10:32] Jamie Palisades: *superfluous
[10:32] Gwyneth Llewelyn *raises hand*
[10:32] Jamie Palisades: done Soro, just wanted to point out the “ticking clock” issue
[10:33] Soro Dagostino: Gwyn
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Thanks. I wouldn’t be so dramatic, Jamie
[10:33] Cindy Ecksol: I must fly to RL, all. will be interested to read the rest of the transcript
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (bye CIndy)
[10:33] Jamie Palisades chuckles, re-reads your last postings. Oh?
[10:33] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The bill for the merger with AA *was* passed
[10:33] Patroklus Murakami: bye cindy
[10:33] Pip Torok: bye!
[10:33] Soro Dagostino: Bye C.
[10:34] Cindy Ecksol: just for backup I’m going to leave my av here until it times out…
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: The constititional amendment, if it’s NOT passed, will NOT influence the AA merger bill
[10:34] Jamie Palisades smiles, raises hand
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Granted, the SC might have a saying tomorrow —but only on the constititional amendment,
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: Your next Jamie.
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: the bill itself was not declared void by the SC, so it stands.
[10:34] Gwyneth Llewelyn: That’s all.
[10:34] Soro Dagostino: Jamie?
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: excellent point on the SC’s deadline for attacking the bill, thanks, Gwyn.
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: All here may not be aware, as former SC Deans and LRA s are, that they have a limited time to undo legislation
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: however
[10:35] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Exactly.
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: they can undo actions
[10:35] Jamie Palisades: like say
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: an AA seletion that someone does not think is enough like CDS’s
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: unless of course the bill now pending keeps them from doign so
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: finally
[10:36] Jamie Palisades: i respectfulyl disagree with Gwyn’s suggetsion that she is being shut up or railroaded … since a suggestion has been made that we are railroading the hon. senator, may I mention that she has had weeks, nay, months to raise her points, … this is hardly the first time .. we have had many meetings, and the forums are full of the views of her factions and others. No new questions were raised today, and filibusters using old points are unbecoming. So I respectfully disagree that there’s unfairness here in the RA’ actions. Let all those who support and oppose this be honest on the record about their intents Thank you
[10:37] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Alas, Jamie, some of us have time to write on the forums, others have time to attend RA meetings. That’s all.
[10:37] Soro Dagostino: thank you both for your views.
[10:37] Soro Dagostino: Returning to the Agenda
[10:38] Soro Dagostino: Chancellor’s report.
[10:38] Jamie Palisades chuckles. May I also say that Pat’s drafting here, even though we disagree on some points, has been helpful and constructive throughout. Glad to have you back, sir.
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: short report
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: we bought the Monastery sim
[10:38] Patroklus Murakami: ty jamie much appreciated
[10:38] Jamie Palisades: we’re almost sold out of CDS land
[10:38] Pip Torok feels his day is made …
[10:39] Patroklus Murakami: superb news
[10:39] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Very, very good news!
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: so the small monastery plots will help fill new needs
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: AA, should we be allowed by Brian and SOnja;s votes to proceed, ALSO is now almost sold out
[10:39] Jamie Palisades: so wow
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: probably whoever is chancellor next term will come back to you for abnother sim before year end
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: and
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: we are still solvent
[10:40] Jamie Palisades: cheers — mor of a report next time on events, which also has been a busy successful area
[10:40] Gwyneth Llewelyn claps
[10:40] Soro Dagostino: YAY!
[10:40] Patroklus Murakami applauds
[10:41] Jamie Palisades: (Cindy is applauing in her mind, I am sure)
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Jamie, any idea when LL is placing that sim on the map?
[10:41] Soro Dagostino: Item V on the Agenda . . . is there a proponent here
[10:41] Pip Torok wonders whether “Now we are five” is appropriate
[10:41] Gwyneth Llewelyn: haha Pip
[10:42] Soro Dagostino: Claude was online.
[10:42] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Who from the SC will make the presentation? (yes, I saw him online a while ago…)
[10:42] Soro Dagostino: May I have a motion to postpone?
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Let me just see if he’s on Gtalk…
[10:43] Pip Torok: motion to postpone
[10:43] Soro Dagostino: Second?
[10:43] Patroklus Murakami: seconded
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (no, he isn’t) — so I’ll second Pip’s motion
[10:43] Gwyneth Llewelyn:
[10:43] Soro Dagostino: thank you.
[10:43] Soro Dagostino: Non-debateable
[10:43] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:44] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:44] Pip Torok: aye
[10:44] Gwyneth Llewelyn: aye
[10:44] Soro Dagostino: Carried
[10:44] Soro Dagostino: Any other business to come before us?
[10:44] Rose Springvale: can i make announcments?
[10:44] Jamie Palisades: (I hope all of you have noticed the events placard rezzed in front of you)
[10:44] Soro Dagostino: Yes — this is the time
[10:44] Jamie Palisades: please ?
[10:45] Rose Springvale: okay, next saturday CDS kicks of GRand Tour iii
[10:45] Rose Springvale: here is the schedule.. notecard inside with details
[10:45] Rose Springvale: It woudl be really great if you all could put in apprearances… we get LOTS of interest from this
[10:46] Rose Springvale: Also, we’ve had our first Oktoberfest meeting, so if you have input on those events, PLEASE let me know
[10:46] Jamie Palisades: (Has been a big recruiting tool for us in the past — our last run on this was the ski slope event if you recall)
Cindy Ecksol
Master Word Wielder
Posts: 447
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:37 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Re: RA Minutes 14 June 2009 (3 parts)
by Cindy Ecksol » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:00 pm
(continued from previous reply)
[10:46] Gwyneth Llewelyn *nods*
[10:46] Patroklus Murakami: cool
[10:46] Rose Springvale: Also, though he didn’t mention and i’ll get in trouble
[10:46] Soro Dagostino: Great work!
[10:47] Rose Springvale: our chancellor has secured a prime exhibit space for SL6B
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: oooh that’s excellent news!!
[10:47] Jamie Palisades: And everyone please go to the ROMA stop and tell Torin to merge with us, grin
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: (we might, Jamie, we might!)
[10:47] Rose Springvale: And we’ve put kiosks up in Caledons Oxbridge Village Gateway, with info for both CDS and AA
[10:47] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Rose, do you wish any suggestions for events to be held on the SL6B spot?
[10:48] Rose Springvale: if you have ideas for events, send them to me
[10:48] Soro Dagostino: May we adjourn before we go into this?
[10:48] Jamie Palisades: um gwyn we have specifically been asked to do displays and NOT big crowd draw live events
[10:48] Rose Springvale: thanks soro
[10:48] Jamie Palisades: not us – everyone – they have a big ol music program already
[10:48] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aww such a pity, Jamie. But alas. The Linden Will Shall Be Done.
[10:48] Rose Springvale: but WE always need event ideas L)
[10:48] Soro Dagostino: Is there a motion to adjourn?
[10:48] Rose Springvale:
[10:48] Pip Torok: Amen!
[10:48] Jamie Palisades: (oops sorry waiting for adjournment)
[10:49] Pip Torok: motion to adjourn
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn seconds
[10:49] Soro Dagostino: All in favor?
[10:49] Gwyneth Llewelyn: Aye
[10:49] Pip Torok: aye
[10:49] Patroklus Murakami: aye
[10:49] Soro Dagostino: Done! Thank you all.